2012-05-01: 00:01:03 Why is this worm encased in lava? 00:01:07 Mysteries of the universe. 00:04:34 that's a good juxtaposition 00:04:37 coqhack 00:06:17 Oops, I'm (almost) dead. 00:06:20 kmc: Coqrawl, actually. 00:07:58 monqy: Guess who keeps dying. :( 00:08:16 is it you 00:08:21 *sigh* 00:08:25 That monqy. Always with the science. 00:08:26 i;l watch 00:08:34 You must be bored. 00:09:37 uhhhhh 00:09:56 I wonder what's going on here. 00:09:58 that vault? 00:09:59 honqy 00:10:08 monqy: yeah 00:18:12 hmm 00:18:14 I should put armour on 00:18:21 since i'm wearing chain mail 00:20:50 that runed staff is 00:20:51 ... 00:20:52 monqy it's 00:20:56 gnarly 00:22:07 monqy: oh ziggurats are really scary right 00:22:29 uhh 00:22:30 "yeah" 00:22:36 what does the quote mean 00:22:51 the first few floors aren't that bad but if you're paying the entry fee you're aiming a bit deeper than that 00:22:53 oh there's an entry fee? never mind then 00:23:10 how mchu is the tenryf ee/ 00:23:16 HOW MUCH IS THE ENTRY FEE 00:23:18 it varies 00:23:57 _Your potion of coagulated blood rots away. 00:23:58 ew 00:24:41 maybe i should put fightingon sometime 00:24:45 eh i'll do it with uc reaches 10 00:29:25 monqy: btw how much more effective is minor destruction compared to a dart 00:30:51 urgh orc warriors always hit harder than i expect them to 00:31:42 euhh 00:31:47 i wish i had more scrolls of id earlier 00:33:00 i prrefer minor destruction over darts 00:33:13 oh hey looks like you're in a jam 00:33:19 im covered in jam 00:33:33 i can probably get away w/ scroll of tele and stairs if i can solve the immediate problem of having no hp 00:33:46 the plans i can think of are 00:33:49 good luck not dying next turn 00:33:51 (a) quaff a random potion 00:34:03 (b) quaff a potion of might and hope i can wack the remaining health out of the orc warrior before they attack me 00:34:16 (c) read the unid'd scroll (but i think i already know blink) 00:34:16 the 5stack is probably curing if you havent ided it already, but good luck outhealing the orc warrior 00:34:23 how can i tell what scrolls i know 00:34:25 you can check \ to see 00:34:33 yeah i know blinking 00:34:39 ok so i can either quaff might or curing 00:34:51 well, at least i'd have died either way 00:35:39 time to get into another jam over the course of a few thousand turns 00:37:00 also wow the ghoul hunger system is so much less annoying than the regular one 00:38:48 wow jessica is 00:38:50 weak 00:39:37 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 00:39:46 monqy: is levitation useful for getting away from things 00:40:16 if you want to get away from them by hovering ovver water or lava 00:40:23 otherwise, no 00:41:23 hmmm 00:41:32 who's that, sigmund? 00:41:35 yeah 00:41:45 i can either whack him (my unarmed combat skill is pretty good), or quaff a random potion 00:41:50 or back up (if i do that i will probably die) 00:41:56 also he's ^ from me 00:42:00 yeah he has reaching so 00:42:33 wow that actually worked 00:42:35 uhhhh 00:42:43 did i just gain hp there 00:42:43 fsvo actually, worked 00:42:50 or am i behind 00:43:03 afaict you missed sigmund and lost hp 00:43:15 oh i thought i gained hp 00:43:21 i lost hp there 00:43:28 monqy: hi 00:43:32 -!- ellisonch has quit. 00:43:34 wow he had a scythe of dragon slaying 00:43:36 that's heavy duty!!! 00:43:38 shachaf: hello? 00:43:40 slays dragons and stuff 00:43:40 BYE ELLISONCH 00:43:43 elliott: scythes are bad 00:43:49 monqy: not if they slay dragons!!! 00:43:50 Finally I can tabcomplete uninterrupted 00:44:04 17:43:28 < shachaf> monqy: hi 00:44:06 elliott: You're the only person with a nick starting with 'e' in here. 00:44:08 shachaf: did you have something to say 00:44:13 where's egobot 00:44:14 monqy: yes 00:44:23 monqy: i had to say "hi" 00:44:25 oh 00:44:27 did i say it yet/ 00:44:33 no 00:44:54 oopse 00:44:58 monqy: hi 00:45:05 "hi" 00:45:35 oops 00:46:26 elliott: did youe die 00:46:28 no 00:46:30 i got teleportitis 00:46:33 "rip elliott" 00:46:38 -!- elliott has left. 00:46:46 soon ripe. soon rotten. soon gone. but not forgotten. 00:46:50 shachafe you kiled him 00:46:57 monqy: oh no 00:47:03 killed him with your 00:47:03 "rip elliott" II 00:47:03 words 00:54:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:54:46 monqy: hlepe elliott put me on /ignore 00:54:54 sorry elliott :'( 00:55:53 :( 00:57:45 shachaf: hecked 00:58:08 Headlines for tomorrow's newspaper. 00:58:11 SHACHAF: HECKED 00:58:19 your aim cud be next 01:00:03 Your Aim could Be next 01:00:20 I don't like elliott's Even very much. 01:00:25 Does that make me wrong? 01:01:18 Oh, wait. 01:01:20 Maybe I'm wrong. 01:50:02 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:51:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:58:56 -!- augur has joined. 02:04:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:53:27 -!- elliott has joined. 02:53:36 @time monqy 02:53:38 Local time for monqy is Mon Apr 30 19:53:37 2012 02:53:52 ah, the monkey's hour of hibernation 02:53:54 -!- elliott has left. 02:54:53 how do i set up my time zone with lb? 03:03:17 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:27 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:09:14 -!- shubshub has joined. 03:09:17 Hey 03:09:26 ^whois 03:09:26 You is. 03:09:29 lol 03:09:39 ^who 03:09:50 -!- PiRSquared17 has joined. 03:10:09 !bf_txtgen hi 03:10:26 @bots 03:10:26 :) 03:10:32 ^bot 03:10:38 ^bots 03:10:42 fungot: hi 03:10:43 PiRSquared17: eos end of stack ( xd). a common fnord medication to remove the fnord... 03:10:45 ^list 03:10:54 ^help 03:10:54 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 03:11:07 `bots 03:11:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bots: not found 03:11:14 `help 03:11:16 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:11:53 `run set hi=me & echo %hi& 03:11:55 ​%hi 03:12:13 `run set hi=me & echo %hi% 03:12:16 ​%hi% 03:12:31 -!- japh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:12:34 `run echo $hi 03:12:37 No output. 03:12:53 `run set hi=me echo $hi 03:12:55 No output. 03:13:18 `run set hi=me & echo $hi 03:13:21 No output. 03:13:36 `run print "hi" 03:13:40 Warning: unknown mime-type for "hi" -- using "application/octet-stream" \ Error: no such file "hi" 03:13:55 `run ruby 03:13:58 bash: ruby: command not found 03:14:19 `run echo $name 03:14:21 No output. 03:14:36 -!- elliott has joined. 03:14:50 again, stop fucking with the bots like that or you'll get on their ignore list. 03:15:02 HackEgo and fungot both respond to private messages 03:15:02 elliott: i find postfix-colon keywords significantly harder to read.... and the stack overflow. 03:15:21 quintopia: you don't have to 03:15:22 @time quintopia 03:15:24 Local time for quintopia is Mon Apr 30 23:15:23 2012 03:15:54 ehow does it knoooooow 03:16:40 stalking 03:16:53 is my time zone hardcoded in there? 03:17:04 yes it's part of the lambdabot source code 03:17:06 quintopia: CTCP time requests probably 03:17:12 no 03:17:13 hardcoded 03:17:16 into lambdabot's source code 03:17:17 omg 03:17:28 oh 03:17:31 i did get one of those 03:17:32 that's creepy 03:17:32 lol 03:17:38 yeah it does that but 03:17:39 it ignores the result 03:17:43 and just uses the hardcoded timezone instead 03:24:35 ^ lies 03:26:07 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 03:26:34 @time test1_2_3 03:26:35 Local time for test1_2_3 is I just set some random TIME result 03:27:37 no, it predicted you were going to do that 03:27:42 it's too smart for you 03:27:46 can't fool lambdabot 03:32:25 -!- shubshub has joined. 03:37:22 -!- shubshub2 has joined. 03:39:02 -!- shubshub has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:41:43 -!- shubshub2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:43:19 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 03:48:44 sigh, a 200 line C library is not "trivial" 03:48:52 it might be simple or straightforward 03:51:16 Well, it could actually be trivial. 03:51:26 Though that's unlikely. 03:51:44 * pikhq_ imagines a 180 line switch statement that does not-much 03:51:44 maybe if it's all obviously dead code 03:51:55 (i mean 200 source lines, not incl comments and whitespace) 03:51:55 "trivial" just means "easy" now 03:52:05 elliott: or "possible" 03:52:06 evidence: people say "extremely trivial" 03:52:10 but i rage against this usage 03:52:11 Like, effectively a lookup table. 03:52:11 i rage so hard 03:52:14 shrug 03:52:15 it's too late 03:52:24 I'd say even a 200 line lookup table is probably actually trivial. 03:52:28 i rage against "raging so hard" against something :p 03:52:33 pikhq_: I'm not sure I would even call that trivial 03:52:33 *rage so hard 03:52:45 to me "trivial" means not only simple and straightforward, but so simple there is almost nothing to say about it 03:53:05 the 200 line lookup table / switch statement is probably not devoid of implementation details 03:53:17 anyway there's no absolute cutoff 03:54:43 but I'm extremely skeptical of a claim that any 200 lines of C is trivial 03:56:26 the particular code I'm talking about is signal-aware multiplatform event-based UNIX IO code 03:56:44 I... That seems quite nontrivial. 03:56:50 I'd have to think about it! 04:18:08 -!- shubshub has joined. 04:21:55 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:25:39 -!- augur has joined. 05:06:17 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:06:28 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:13:45 ^help 05:13:45 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 05:13:45 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 05:14:38 -!- shubshub has joined. 05:33:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:43:13 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 05:43:47 I need help 05:59:57 Brainfuck and underload. Nice, ne 06:01:16 ^ul ((LOOK AROUND YOU )S:^):^ 06:01:16 LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK AROUND YOU LOOK ...too much output! 06:02:03 Good series. 06:02:16 I need help 06:02:25 ^ul (*)(~(*)*:S~(:)S:^):^ 06:02:25 **:***:****:*****:******:*******:********:*********:**********:***********:************:*************:**************:***************:****************:*****************:******************:*******************:********************:*********************:**********************:***********************:************************:** ...too much output! 06:02:32 ^ul (*):S(~(*)*:S~(:)S:^):^ 06:02:32 what variable does egobot use when doing userinterps 06:02:32 ***:***:****:*****:******:*******:********:*********:**********:***********:************:*************:**************:***************:****************:*****************:******************:*******************:********************:*********************:**********************:***********************:************************:* ...too much output! 06:02:39 Umm? 06:02:40 Oh 06:02:50 ? 06:03:02 ^ul (*)(~:(:)*S(*)*~:^):^ 06:03:02 *:**:***:****:*****:******:*******:********:*********:**********:***********:************:*************:**************:***************:****************:*****************:******************:*******************:********************:*********************:**********************:***********************:************************: ...too much output! 06:03:41 well 06:08:19 -!- cheater has joined. 06:13:28 Wormsong 2011 sucks 06:13:28 ^ul (~:(:)*S(*)*~:^)::^ 06:13:28 ~:(:)*S(*)*~:^:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^*:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^**:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^***:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^****:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^*****:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^******:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^*******:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^********:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^*********:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^**********:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^***********:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^************:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^*************:~:(:)*S(*)*~:^********* ...too much output! 06:13:29 :( 06:13:32 * Madoka-Kaname shot 06:14:47 ^def blah 06:14:48 Usage: ^def 06:15:03 ^def inc bf ,[+.,] 06:15:04 Defined. 06:15:07 ^inc abc 06:15:07 bcd 06:15:35 ^inc a 06:15:35 b 06:16:04 ^def test ul S 06:16:04 Defined. 06:16:07 ^test test 06:16:07 ...out of stack! 06:16:14 Does underload not have input? 06:16:24 no 06:18:53 elliott, can't start out the stack with (:(a)a~*^:(b)a~*^:(c)a~*^(d)a~*^) or something? 06:18:58 sure 06:19:03 that's not input though :) 06:19:04 that's code 06:19:35 ^command argument -> (~:(a)a~*^:(r)a~*^:(g)a~*^:(u)a~*^:(m)a~*^:(e)a~*^:(n)a~*^(t)a~*^) 06:20:06 Er, (:(a)a~*^:(r)a~*^:(g)a~*^:(u)a~*^:(m)a~*^:(e)a~*^:(n)a~*^(t)a~*^) 06:20:24 Then, you could do ^def echo ul (S)~^ 06:20:57 right, that's an input scheme 06:24:30 ^def echo ul (S)~^ 06:24:30 Defined. 06:24:36 ^echo hi 06:24:36 ...out of stack! 06:24:39 lol 06:25:57 elliott, which graphics thingy, if any? 06:26:03 ? 06:26:05 Out of Mayday's, Phoebus, and Ironhand? 06:26:06 For DF 06:26:12 glyphs 06:26:17 oh 06:26:17 df 06:26:20 still glyphs 06:26:22 use the defaults 06:26:27 all the tilesets are 06:26:28 (a) hideous 06:26:29 and 06:26:32 (b) mess up all the text and make it super hideous 06:26:56 why is egobot not on this channel anymore? 06:27:03 ^prefixes 06:27:03 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? 06:27:10 !help 06:27:20 ^show prefixes 06:27:20 (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S 06:27:31 Isn't ">" also a lambdabot prefix? 06:27:40 >help 06:27:56 > "Hi. This is Haskell" 06:27:57 "Hi. This is Haskell" 06:27:59 ^userinterps 06:27:59 > let 2+2 = 5 in 2+2 06:28:01 5 06:28:13 >"Hello" 06:28:18 :t () 06:28:19 () 06:28:24 :hi 06:28:38 no :t is a specific command 06:28:40 > 5."this is haskell" 06:28:40 so is > 06:28:42 [5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5] 06:28:44 > let 1+1 = window in 1+1 06:28:45 Not in scope: `window' 06:28:45 > let 2+2 = text "This isn't kindergarten, is it" in 2+2 06:28:46 This isn't kindergarten, is it 06:28:54 Madoka-Kaname++ 06:29:23 @run 2+2 06:29:24 4 06:29:25 @type () 06:29:26 () 06:30:13 elliott, I am currently: Being stupid and reinstalling DF 06:30:18 k 06:30:18 Because I'm lazy 06:30:48 How does sh accept input? 06:31:06 @type /me hi 06:31:07 parse error on input `/' 06:31:15 @type //me hi 06:31:16 parse error on input `//' 06:31:27 shubshub, @type gives the type of a Haskell expression 06:31:30 @type "Hello" 06:31:31 [Char] 06:31:37 @type '!' 06:31:38 Char 06:31:41 How does SH ACCEPT INPUT? 06:31:53 How does sh Accept INPUT 06:32:02 please tell me 06:32:10 i have no idea what your question means 06:32:24 how does the sh language accept input 06:32:29 you mean unix shell script? 06:32:34 `run read $blah; echo $blah 06:32:35 yea 06:32:37 I think? 06:32:39 input of what kind? 06:32:46 you get command line arguments as variables $1, $2, etc 06:32:51 you can read lines from stdin with 'read' 06:32:51 `run echo $blah 06:32:55 No output. 06:32:57 you can also read a book or web page about shell programmin 06:33:08 No output. 06:33:14 or you could just ask all your questions on irc and have people promote the behaviour by answer them 06:33:25 even if they give a token recommendation to act differently afterwards 06:33:25 yeah 06:33:29 *answering 06:35:27 elliott, I think I was anticipating the reinstall wiping the texture thing I installed. It did not 06:35:34 How does sh accept input from egobot? 06:35:41 which variable is it 06:35:54 with the linux version its just in one convenient directory 06:35:55 rm -r it and it's done 06:35:57 easy 06:36:08 `run rm -r 06:36:11 rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 06:36:33 `run /j #ssoteric 06:36:37 bash: /j: No such file or directory 06:36:40 lol 06:36:55 `run echo $I 06:36:57 No output. 06:37:11 How do I make it output the source? 06:37:35 * Sgeo attempts to refrain from profanity and insults 06:38:03 is can ban now? 06:38:04 because im tryimg to add an interp to egobot but i dont 06:38:13 knoknow how to make it read the input 06:38:37 maybe you should not add an interp to egobot then 06:38:50 well I want to 06:38:52 you guys realise that he goes away if you don't talk to him right 06:39:06 No I dont 06:39:15 I just get frustrated 06:39:34 Why won't someone just help me? 06:39:41 shubshub: go read up on shell programming and come back when you've written the thing. we can't possibly give you all the info you need here. 06:40:11 quintopia: i think this has gone on long enough to adequately demonstrate he's not interested in changing his behaviour 06:40:20 .... *facepalm* Your not understanding what Im saying 06:40:34 -!- itidus21 has joined. 06:40:38 shubshub, the best help we can give you is to tell you to at least try to learn on your own 06:40:46 elliott: sorry, i wasn't here to see it going on 06:41:25 Read up on stuff. If you're reading, and have questions about what you're reading, then sure, ask 06:41:33 But at least get started independently 06:41:42 how often does #esoteric get employed in the service of teaching someone how to learn 06:42:32 I just want to know how to get the input ive read everywhere and it wont tell me 06:44:42 -!- japh has joined. 06:45:05 wrote a javascript dcpu-16 emulator, working on compiler 06:45:12 assembler* 06:45:56 -_- 06:47:20 japh: are you just another perl hacker 06:48:09 perlmonk at your service 06:49:59 I just murdered two dwarves in the Object Testing arena 06:50:11 just another poison hacker 06:50:49 japh: not http://perl.plover.com/obfuscated/ this guy? 06:52:40 no i'm this guy http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=140353 06:53:27 http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=139703 06:54:26 http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=135354 06:54:35 i was a nerd before it was cool 06:55:12 I was cool before it was a nerd. :( 07:05:24 there there.. theres some possibility you can become cool again 07:08:30 you could vie for gregor-style cool 07:09:03 running the esolang wiki must increase your cool points 07:10:10 * itidus21 slowly realizes that the words wiki, vie, -style, points are all not cool 07:10:37 even the word cool isn't cool, as the simpsons explained 07:13:00 itidus21: you're supposed to say "awesome" these days 07:13:03 didn't you get the memo 07:13:37 well put. 07:16:56 also be sure to refer to any technical problem as "trivial" 07:17:53 =)) 07:18:30 uh... regular use of the term non-trivial in non-mathematical contexts 07:28:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:29:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:31:21 caption "Gary decided that escaping this gathering of his relatives to catch the game would be non-trivial." 07:32:49 @time monqy 07:32:51 Local time for monqy is Tue May 1 00:32:50 2012 07:32:58 happy 00:32:50 07:33:01 im real tired i suhloudl slep 07:33:33 but im too busy dragging myself throguh test.fk deespite being perhaps too tired to get anything out of it 07:33:43 monqy: instad ot slep ing try noten seleeping!! 07:33:45 test.fk is the best "test.fk + elliott crawl literally the best funjoyment possible" 07:34:43 "whats even bettere than test.fk" "going to sleepe" 07:35:48 Yup, it's definitely end of the semester. 07:36:09 I'm procrastinating on nearly everything. 07:36:37 Especially sleep. 07:37:48 "the only thing you we have to procrastinate on is procrastination itself" 07:38:19 - monqy the grammaphone 07:38:22 Earlier this week I went to sleep at 6. 07:38:26 grammaphone = phone that gramma talks into 07:38:27 It was delightful. 07:38:37 pikhq_: "which 6" 07:38:42 06:00 07:38:52 "the real one" 07:38:57 Yes. 07:39:13 pikhq_: When are you coming to visit monqy and me in CA? 07:39:29 shachaf: If I have sufficient funds to do so? 07:39:57 I'm afraid that college is nontrivial in cost. 07:40:05 And CA is nontrivial in distance. 07:40:12 go to college inc alifroniaa 07:40:19 problem = sloved 07:40:57 I mean, sure, I only need to go through 4 states... 07:41:13 That's still ~1,000 miles. 07:41:58 anger, hate, misery, apathy, what was the other one? 07:42:08 Is the dark side a state? I don't remember this at all. 07:42:13 The point is that it ends in apathy. 07:42:30 Amusing driving directions, though. 07:42:54 "Get on I-70. After 500 miles, keep left at the fork." 07:43:11 lol 07:43:13 Aren't you in Colorado or something? 07:43:17 Yes. 07:43:23 A mere 1,000 miles away. 07:43:44 (~1600 kilometers) 07:46:08 (specifically, Colorado Springs, CO.) 07:46:26 "thats like "double colorado"" 07:46:58 It's also astoundingly conservative. 07:47:23 "colorado springs, the worst garbage collector :'(" 07:47:30 :P 07:48:21 There ought to be a liberal garbage collector that randomly collects any ol' memory. 07:48:38 liberal garbage collector: fox news 07:48:42 wait 07:48:48 a liberal garbage collector would be one that collects liberal garbage 07:48:50 I suppose I'll eventually end up moving to CA, though. Or at an absolute minimum Denver... 07:48:53 so i guess it's more daily kos 07:49:00 Living near Fox's viewer base is a bit disturbing. 07:49:29 pikhq_: How did you end up in Colawhatever sSPRIngs, Coalhrwla/>/ 07:49:47 shachaf: I was born here. 07:49:56 My dad watches Fox News. I pretty much have to listen 07:49:56 Oh. 07:50:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:50:06 So why are you going to college there too? 07:50:12 @remember monqy hello 07:50:13 It is forever etched in my memory. 07:50:20 I'm a cheap bastard. 07:50:41 @remember shubshub 07:50:41 Incorrect arguments to quote 07:50:46 shachaf: Isn't diving great? 07:50:50 @forget monqy hello 07:50:50 No match. 07:51:00 -!- Ngevd has joined. 07:51:01 @remember shubshub !!!Batch 07:51:01 Done. 07:51:07 elliott: Diving? 07:51:07 hi Ngevd, watch me play crawl 07:51:07 Oh dear 07:51:09 I just made a Reffit account 07:51:11 Hello 07:51:15 s/ff/dd/ 07:51:17 shachaf: You know, in Crawl. 07:51:20 Ngevd: Don't. It's waful. 07:51:21 I'm not kidding. 07:51:27 Is that like Digging For Victory? 07:51:27 TOO LATE 07:51:30 Except just diving? 07:51:33 Also, I'm using Windows 07:51:36 And for losery instead of victory? 07:51:51 Wait, I've got Putty 07:51:53 shachaf: More or less. 07:52:01 Which server? 07:52:08 crawl.develz.org port 345 07:52:31 Watching 07:52:45 "agen" 07:52:48 crawl.develz? MORE LIKE CRUELLA DE VIL 07:52:51 RIGHT???? 07:52:53 (you have to q and rewatch) 07:53:51 pikhq_: Money grows on trees in California. 07:54:01 i guess that explains y combinator 07:54:17 y money = money (y money) 07:54:24 TWIST: s/e/q/g 07:54:26 nobody knows why money 07:54:38 shachaf: Unless you're a college student, in which case you have net negative income. 07:54:43 if only monqy was here to see my twist :"( 07:54:48 Or a college graduate... 07:54:54 shachaf: why are you making stupid jokes when you could be watching me play crawl 07:55:23 pikhq_: No, it literally grows on trees. 07:55:28 in the form of ORANGES 07:55:33 did you know orange = monqy 07:55:39 s/q/e/g 07:55:43 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 07:55:44 orangq = monqy 07:55:50 netacraft ocnfirms it 07:55:51 Did you know that college costs all the money? 07:56:03 currently im running from edmund and two jackals 07:56:05 uhh by two i mean 07:56:06 a bunch 07:56:07 I did, as a matter of fact. :-( 07:56:15 actually currently i'm dead 07:56:23 "how elliott coutns, ep. 1:::::" 07:56:25 "1" 07:56:28 I was born in the wrong damned country. 07:56:29 "how elliott coutns, ep. a bunch:::::" 07:56:31 -!- elliott has left. 07:56:31 "a bunch" 07:57:13 Country where people can't even pronounce my name. Bastards. 07:58:16 What's your name? 07:58:25 Worcester. 07:58:59 good name 07:59:17 Hard to get more English than a name like that. 07:59:28 I suppose my first name could be something like "Gareth" or "Nigel" though. 08:00:00 ion: is heh.fi your wbeistee 08:05:55 gareth is one of those names that doesn't have a feminine counterpart 08:07:09 do /msg egobot !!!Batch 08:09:23 pikhq_: Are you in college in the summer? You should come to CA then! 08:09:28 It's the logical thing to do. 08:11:09 shachaf: Would still need money to go to CA. 08:11:22 Aside from that factor, though, totally awesome. 08:11:24 -!- elliott has joined. 08:11:30 shachaf: Are you watching this? 08:12:14 lmfao 08:12:26 shachaf: You have to see this. 08:13:26 elliott: No, I stopped. 08:13:34 But 5 centaurs. 08:13:36 hi centaurs 08:13:45 youe diede 08:16:03 elliott: What a great game! 08:16:09 elliott: Are ou playing SpVM? 08:16:13 spas 08:16:25 what dodes' "As'" standa for 08:16:28 assassin 08:16:50 What do they do? 08:16:55 assassinate 08:17:00 assassinate 08:17:02 HA HA 08:17:07 HOW FUNNY 08:17:23 Thanks, latency, for spoiling my humouur 08:22:16 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:32:24 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 08:43:09 Huh. 08:43:23 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:43:25 The FDA is legally barred from banning tobacco. 08:43:56 There is an actual law on the books saying tobacco, and tobacco alone, cannot be banned due to being unsafe. 08:44:12 -!- nortti has joined. 08:45:46 (cannot be banned) due to (being unsafe) 08:58:48 ./msg egobot !!!Batch abc 09:01:53 Why isnt egobot in this channel anymore? 09:02:41 @ask fizzie why isnt egobot in this channel anymore? 09:02:41 Consider it noted. 09:03:22 @ask lambdabot hi 09:03:23 Nice try ;) 09:03:33 @tell lambdabot hi 09:03:33 Nice try ;) 09:04:31 Don't ask me, it's not my bot. 09:04:31 fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 09:04:38 @clear-messages 09:04:39 Messages cleared. 09:04:58 fizzie yay 09:05:04 oh ok 09:05:09 whose bot is it 09:05:31 Gregor's. 09:05:52 @ask Gregor why isnt egobot in this channel anymore? 09:05:52 Consider it noted. 09:06:40 can I Make my own bot? 09:07:20 It's a free node. 09:07:28 what does that mean 09:07:38 Just punning. 09:07:44 lol 09:07:56 Ill Make My Bot And Call It S-Bot 09:08:51 It Will Be Ablle to Interpret My Own Languages 09:09:55 shubshub: your programming language or the languah 09:10:02 *language you speak 09:10:13 Programming Languages 09:10:32 Also some other stuff 09:11:19 fizzie: Have you considered the RACE CONDITION involved in using @clear-messages??!!!?!/!?! 09:14:27 shachaf: Now I have. 09:14:28 do /msg egobot !!!Batch hi 09:16:31 /msg egobot !!!Batch hi 09:16:55 one less space 09:17:00 lol 09:17:28 /msg egobot !!!Batchhi 09:18:17 shubshub: ?!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? 09:18:25 lol 09:18:36 i dont know what the other one is on the end 09:19:15 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:20:20 WTF 09:20:25 FUNGOT LEFT 09:28:31 nortti it works but not great 09:33:29 fizzie: whens fungot comin back? 09:34:22 Hmmm now which language supports Online Capabolities 09:35:01 Does Underload? 09:44:27 shubshub: almost none of the esoteric languages support any kind of networking 09:45:18 :( 09:45:19 Befunge does 09:46:30 BrainFuck++ does I think 09:48:21 can i get a confirm on that? 09:48:31 Does brainfuck++ support networking? 09:49:13 @ask HackEgo hi 09:49:13 Consider it noted. 09:49:21 `run echo hi 09:49:24 hi 09:49:24 HackEgo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 09:49:32 lol 09:49:51 `run echo @karma 09:49:54 ​@karma 09:50:35 `runecho hi 09:50:36 `echo hi 09:50:37 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runecho: not found 09:50:52 hi 09:51:07 `echo @karma 09:51:10 ​@karma 09:51:23 `echo @karma 09:51:26 ​@karma 09:51:59 `echo `echo hi 09:52:01 ​`echo hi 09:52:12 `echo hi 09:52:15 hi 09:53:28 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:57:04 LOL! 09:57:12 i crashed lambdabot 09:57:19 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:57:35 @karma 09:57:39 You have a karma of -1 09:58:30 Any PSOX-capable esolang + PSOX supports networking 09:59:29 hmmm? 10:00:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX 10:00:26 It's not currently in a usable state. I abandoned it years ago, the copy in SVN is broken, no one supports it 10:00:57 Don't use it 10:01:01 Why 10:01:33 I "might" be able to make it worm 10:02:03 work* 10:02:21 `' 10:02:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ': not found 10:02:28 The support for files is broken 10:02:30 For one 10:02:37 And there are no plans whatsoever to fix that 10:02:43 What Language is it written in? 10:02:44 Networking support should be good though 10:02:52 Python. 10:03:03 http://trac.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk have fun 10:03:05 Ill fix it easy 10:03:15 It is an easy fix 10:03:25 I know exactly what needs to be fixed, actually. Just never did it 10:03:32 Then do it 10:03:37 Ignore the README.txt 10:03:40 make it a working language 10:03:47 shubshub, it's not a language 10:03:52 Oh 10:03:58 what is it 10:04:28 It's a thing that goes between a program written in a language and stdio 10:04:38 Oh 10:04:51 So that if you're running a Brainfuck interpreter under it, the brainfuck code can do things like networking stuff 10:05:04 * shubshub is actually now thinking of making a Networking language now ^_^ 10:06:21 Ill call it NetCMD++ 10:06:32 shubshub, problems with PSOX: It's too elaborate and really only good with Brainfuck and similar languages 10:07:01 Ill make this lang in python to give its own networking ^_^ 10:09:15 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:09:42 NetCMD++ I LIKE THAT NAME :D 10:13:44 NetCMD++ 10:17:34 shachaf: yeah 10:22:12 -!- cheater has joined. 10:25:48 shachaf: FSVO wbeistee 10:29:42 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 10:44:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:13:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:14:10 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:31:48 -!- Ngevd has joined. 11:32:25 Hello! 11:56:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:14:32 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:14:47 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:15:12 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:23:17 Hello, Phantom_Hoover 12:23:30 hlo 12:23:48 How're you? 12:33:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:38:42 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:11:08 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:22:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:53:09 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:53:50 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:05:55 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:48:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:04:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:06:10 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 15:07:04 -!- cheater has joined. 15:18:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:53:24 -!- Ngevd has joined. 15:53:37 Hello 15:53:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 15:56:16 -!- fungot has joined. 16:04:40 -!- augur has joined. 16:04:48 Ngevd, I am: fine 16:04:52 How is your: DF 16:05:54 Doing well 16:06:08 Didn't realise how RIDICULOUSLY FAST a good danger room is 16:06:36 Really? 16:06:54 Yep 16:07:02 Competent to Legendary in seconds 16:07:15 Weren't you there when I was using DRs to go from no military to siegebreaking /during the siege/? 16:07:22 No? 16:07:25 I was just after that 16:07:52 Admittedly those all went awry for various reasons, mainly due to scrimping. 16:08:20 :/ 16:09:07 Basically, optimal DRing requires that you first get them up to legendary armour user by not equipping them with shields or weapons, then giving them their weapon until they become legendary in that, then finally giving them a shield and polishing it off with legendary shield user. 16:09:42 The armour stage takes ages, but it increases their survivability a hell of a lot. 16:09:48 Armour first? damn 16:10:18 Well, that's a single dwarf ruined forever 16:10:56 Nah, just remove their shield and weapon in the equipment skills then top off armour. 16:11:18 Okay! 16:11:31 I'll do that when I next go on 16:11:58 Shield precludes weapon precludes armour, basically; the slower skills will basically grind to a halt. 16:12:39 That's easy 16:12:40 :) 16:12:53 Thanks, mister Danger Room Hoover of Old Edinburgh Town 16:13:10 Actually I've only ever lived in the New Town. 16:13:52 Thanks, mister Danger Room Hoover of New Edinburgh Town 16:14:09 Yay. I have succesfully buit busybox and musl using my own package manager 16:14:13 Better -_- 16:14:24 nortti, Yay 16:14:48 nortti, you should talk to elliott, he once made a package manager. 16:15:09 Phantom_Hoover: source based or binary based? 16:15:11 It's never used, of course, but who cares. 16:15:41 It basically just automated ./configure; make; make install with some additional bells and whistles AFAIK. 16:16:34 Phantom_Hoover: My package manager supports syncing with repo, installing and uninstalling and has builtin dependecy resolver 16:17:33 (source based) 16:18:32 It occurs to me that elliott is probably going to yell at me because I described it completely wrongly, but now I totally have the drop on him because if he does he'll be dancing from my puppeteer's strings. 16:22:10 Phantom_Hoover: did it work with progams that want to be compiled by make defconfig; make? 16:22:23 I don't know, ask him? 16:23:45 @ask elliott did your package manager work with programs that want to be compiled by make defconfig; make 16:23:46 Consider it noted. 16:24:35 @ask HackEgo `date 16:24:35 Consider it noted. 16:24:46 `uname -a 16:24:51 Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 16:24:52 HackEgo: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:25:09 `echo @messages 16:25:12 ​@messages 16:26:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:26:36 `? nortti 16:26:39 nortti? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:26:53 lambdabot ignores HE these days. 16:27:05 I noticed 16:27:20 `? Taneb 16:27:23 Taneb is not actually Ngevd, no matter what you may have heard. 16:27:27 `? Ngevd 16:27:30 ​+'.km.pԁ* \ 'ؒ.~(.$ls&y].CEj6)WaN..=ʵ%f.M.bͦeD4m0.&R..L{Noͳ[ʈ.7Kyv.$ppD \ })\0#hG0(T'.E1.cr5t=Z.V|......ߴl!¾.)_ i|IZf%k9$}:Tע\wHZq8 GXV'oF*ضhYL.ijŭB,z_9I 16:27:38 lambdabot ignores HE these days. // why? It shouldn't be possible to botloop ... 16:27:38 Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:27:42 @messages 16:27:42 shubshub asked 7h 21m 46s ago: why isnt egobot in this channel anymore? 16:27:50 Because fail. 16:28:07 Ngevd: I think it is trying to say that you are random 16:28:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:28:33 `? pikhq 16:28:33 @where fizzie 16:28:33 I know nothing about fizzie. 16:28:36 pikhq? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:28:38 -!- EgoBot has joined. 16:28:39 @where oklopol 16:28:39 I know nothing about oklopol. 16:28:46 That one. 16:29:02 If you need to add specific ignores to bots to prevent bot loops, YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG. Following the RFC properly, bot loops can simply never happen. 16:29:16 ??? 16:29:21 Which RFC? 16:29:23 ion: but everyone makes bots reply in privmsg rather than notice, partly due to mirc not following the standards, as usual 16:29:34 Oh. 16:29:35 Mostly because notice looks fucking terrible in every client. 16:29:46 Oh god no. 16:29:51 This is not acceptable. 16:29:52 ais523: Yep, following the RFC makes mIRC users use more effort to crying than it would take to uncheck the “GIVE ME AN ELECTRIC SHOCK WHENEVER BOTS SPEAK” checkbox. :-) 16:29:56 Eurgh. 16:30:25 Find me ONE client in which this doesn't look completely fucking awful, ion. Seriously, one client. 16:30:26 It’s also annoying when bot messages look like human discussion, so you can’t skip them as easily. 16:30:41 I’ve been using Irssi and WeeChat and they look fine in them. 16:30:58 ion: it looks terrible in irssi 16:31:10 Note that the left column is now crazy wide. 16:31:27 You make the left column crazy wide anyway, Phantom_Hoover ;) 16:31:29 I have no left colum :p 16:31:36 You are bad. 16:31:58 Phantom_Hoover: why? 16:32:32 Because the messages should all be left-aligned to the same place. 16:32:39 Phantom_Hoover: why 16:33:23 ion: Anyway, I avoid botloops with Unicode, which works great and looks great in virtually all clients. 16:33:25 Because they form one continuous record of text; they shouldn't be jumbled up by additional information. 16:33:32 ion: And you will complain about for some reason or another. 16:37:35 Phantom_Hoover: I use length on nick to quickly differentiate between nicks 16:38:13 *of 16:38:16 I use grammar, punctuation and spelling to do the same. 16:38:24 You realise that you can still do that if it's centre-aligned. 16:39:37 Phantom_Hoover: well actually I just look at the text and if indentation changes I know that it is another nicl 16:39:44 *nick 16:40:38 Meanwhile I look at the text and get a rough idea of the nick from how long it is. 16:42:46 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:43:12 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: http://qdb.us/44843). 16:49:23 -!- PiRSquared17 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:55:46 Sgeo, update? 16:57:02 Yes 16:57:37 Do the update thing! 17:05:13 Wasn't it a while ago though? 17:05:39 Or not 17:05:59 Phantom_Hoover, if you haven't seen update, update etc. 17:07:39 -!- derdon has joined. 17:34:14 -!- clog has joined. 17:43:22 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:49:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 18:00:00 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:05:51 -!- monqy has joined. 18:12:35 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:13:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:20:04 -!- jix has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:20:38 -!- jix has joined. 18:35:02 -!- elliott has joined. 18:43:50 `echo test 18:43:50 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:43:52 test 18:44:07 19:44 nortti asked 2h 20m 8s ago: did your package manager work with programs that want to be compiled by make defconfig; make 18:44:11 @ask nortti What package manager? 18:44:11 Consider it noted. 18:44:37 16:26:53: lambdabot ignores HE these days. 18:44:44 @tell Phantom_Hoover False. 18:44:44 Consider it noted. 18:45:04 16:29:35: Mostly because notice looks fucking terrible in every client. 18:45:05 ++ 18:45:10 ion: They're hideous in every client, not just mIRC. 18:46:17 elliott: I brought up mIRC as an example, because not just is it hideous, it also causes a ping 18:46:19 To be fair, user-to-user notices look fine, it's just channel notices that look awful. But it's the fact that user notices look fine that forces channel notices to look awful, so yeah. 18:46:26 that is, channel notices ping all mIRC users in them 18:46:45 anyway, preventing botloops is evil 18:46:50 the RFC is evil for trying to prevent them 18:46:58 and Gregor needs to make HackEgo say @messages 18:48:06 lol 18:48:18 elliott: does it add invisible characters if someone else tries? 18:48:23 `echo @messages 18:48:24 Yes. 18:48:26 ​@messages 18:48:28 HackEgo is horrible. 18:48:33 Gregor: No, seriously; HackEgo has lambdabot messages. 18:48:38 lambdabot will keep pinging it every now and then if you don't. 18:48:55 Good for lambdabot? 18:49:03 helliiot. I was feeling crawly, so i started a game at CDO. (I didn’t continue the old game at CAO yet since i felt like trying a naga since they apparently have a constricting ability nowadays.) 18:49:27 I'll watch. 18:49:30 Hey, monqy is playing. 18:49:37 Oh, idle for four minutes. 18:49:41 Wow, CDO is packed today. 18:50:03 im eating 18:50:22 ion: Spiders! 18:50:23 Spiders are great. 18:50:27 You should go to the spiders. 18:50:29 @time monqy 18:50:30 Local time for monqy is Tue May 1 11:50:29 2012 18:50:30 The Spider Nest didn’t exist either when i played the last time. Let’s see if i die. 18:50:33 Happy 11:50:29. 18:50:50 elliott: that's a rather belated happy 18:50:50 ion: You have lots of HP. :( 18:50:58 ais523: It's for California. 18:51:10 (on a related note, I get vaguely freaked out whenever I look at the clock and see it's 5:23) 18:51:15 ion: Are you using bigterm? 18:51:18 Your messages keep overlapping. 18:51:20 elliott: I mean you didn't say that in the same second as lambdabot's response 18:51:23 elliott: hit r 18:51:28 Ew, he is. 18:51:34 No, I don't want to resize my terminal. 18:51:40 I want ion to 80x24 instead. 18:51:42 elliott: Hit r to resize your terminal. 18:51:50 ion: try hand of trog??? 18:51:53 or something 18:51:55 hes too berk 18:51:57 oh 18:51:59 elliott: hand of trog doesn't resize terminals 18:52:07 ais523: maybe not for you 18:52:16 ion: anyway, pls use 80x24 :( 18:52:29 monqy: thanks for r though that's useful (for knowing when to yell at people) 18:52:33 elliott: Why? 18:52:52 monqy: please explain to ion about politeness and morals and civilised decency 18:52:56 elliott: you can also see on the games list if a termsize is bigger than yours (itle be red) 18:53:04 yeah i know that part but "so much worke" 18:53:05 ion: ask ##crawl about hugeterm 18:53:25 hugeterm[1/4]: Any terminal size greater than 80x24 makes your games harder to watch for people using the standard size, which also means that all future viewings of your recorded games will be harder to watch. With ttyrecs specifically, larger terms mean both a scrambled view and a shorter playback time. 18:53:37 also its ugly 18:53:45 nethack 4 does not have this problem! 18:53:53 (and wouldn't even if watching were implemented!) 18:54:02 19:53 hugeterm[2/4]: Don't be that guy. 18:54:05 ion is being that guy 18:54:19 except i guess your terminal has to be even bigger than ion's to qualify for "thatguyness" 18:54:22 Let’s try a kynäniska fighter. I suppose that translates to English rather well. A pencil neck. 18:54:22 but still 18:54:26 minor sins are sins; why is ion an octopus 18:54:28 elliott i got eustachio the giant eyeball 18:54:33 monqy: did you die to it 18:54:36 no 18:54:38 monqy: come onnnnn 18:54:48 polying uniques to giant eyeballs means they can't cast 18:54:50 ugh how can i decide between watching ion and monqy 18:54:53 and he hadn't spammed summons 18:54:55 watch both 18:54:56 monqy: yes but 18:54:59 you should have just skipped turns 18:55:13 monqy: what are you doing this game 18:55:14 oh back to spacebar 18:55:20 i can dive if you'd prefer 18:55:26 "im fine with anythinge" 18:56:44 ion: have you seen monqy's spacebar play 18:57:05 no 18:57:09 dude 18:57:10 What’s monqy’s spacebar play? 18:57:15 connect to squarelos now 18:57:29 it's not as impressive as autorobin or xw or cashybrid or any of the other bots really 18:57:33 actually he's not going as fast as usual right now but "only a matter of time" 18:57:39 monqy: wait, when did I say it was impressive 18:57:45 ok 18:57:50 Ok, watching. 18:57:58 it's not impressive, it's just impressively idiotic 18:58:29 Is that a lua script you’re using? 18:58:33 yes 18:58:40 he has autoexplore and an autofight script he wrote both on spcaebar 18:59:07 oh no, not a quarterstaff of chaos 18:59:14 "crawl final bosse" 18:59:19 monqy: Do you happen to have a URL to your crawl config? I’m lazy. 18:59:47 i think the ##crawl bots can generate those 18:59:58 is this CAO or CDO? 19:00:01 CDO 19:00:04 squarelos 19:00:35 elliott: he's squarelos on nethack4.org, too :) 19:00:48 I know he is, I watched him play his single NetHack 4 game :p 19:00:49 bleh, the bots only do CAO RC files 19:00:57 monqy: what did you think of nh4? 19:01:11 it was unplayably laggy for me 19:01:14 ais523: i quote, "nethack is weird" 19:01:25 crawl is weirder 19:01:30 nethack is weirder 19:01:31 ion: http://crawl.develz.org/configs/trunk/squarelos.rc 19:01:32 I bet it's a matter of what you're used to 19:01:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:01:34 I'm on the wrong OS to play df 19:01:34 Thanks 19:01:35 ais523: http://crawl.develz.org/configs/trunk/squarelos.rc 19:01:39 And stream it 19:01:45 In a text-based medium 19:02:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:02:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:02:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:02:17 I could theoretically get a webcam-desktop-y thing and figure out my Livestream password 19:02:23 we're watching squarelos tho 19:02:40 ais523: ion: the actual thing is after "AUTOWHATEVER" 19:02:58 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:03:06 i havent given much effort to it 19:03:11 # OF ALL COOL MONSTERS, I WANT ONLY THE COOLEST 19:03:15 i probably will actually try and make it good over the summer 19:03:21 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:03:22 these comments do a good job of summarising my beliefs 19:03:24 and goals 19:03:40 # MAP DELTAS TO HJKLYUBN BUT IN LOWERCASE 19:03:53 I'd have written that comment in lowercase so I wouldn't need the "but in lowercase" 19:04:06 i don't think ais523 appreciates the spirit of squarelos 19:04:21 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 19:04:28 -!- nortti has joined. 19:04:48 no wonder the square los fork never really caught on, if squarelos is its biggest supporter 19:05:11 i think squarelos is in "memorial" of squarelos instead 19:05:15 yes 19:05:16 # THING 19:05:23 https://github.com/ion1/crawl-config/compare/master-base...master 19:06:07 did monqy die 19:06:10 xom confusion 19:06:11 i always look away one second beforehand 19:06:14 can't quaff curing because mumy 19:06:15 thanks, xom 19:06:23 maybe i should have jsut stayed still 19:06:26 waited it out 19:06:28 "nah" 19:06:50 * ais523 is upset at what the Crawl devteam did to mummies 19:07:06 the original version of them was a race that was all-around weak but capable of grinding, so that people who liked grinding had something to play 19:07:09 then they removed the grinding 19:07:16 and now they're just a challenge race 19:07:32 that sounds like an improvement to me 19:07:42 ais523: please tell monqy to kill all the plants 19:07:49 he's being horrible and leaving them 19:08:31 pikhq: your bootstrap-linux looks awesome 19:08:31 nortti: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:08:46 @messages 19:08:46 elliott asked 24m 35s ago: What package manager? 19:09:18 elliott: I head you wrote a simple package manager 19:09:36 Where did you hear that? I mean, I have, sure. 19:09:44 But I've written multiple things that could be classified as that. 19:09:47 monqy: What are you doing walking around manually? 19:09:50 Oh, you're diving. 19:09:53 meh, if it can't solve Sudoku, it's insufficiently good at resolving complex dependency issues 19:10:14 monqy: I died a lot yesterday. :( 19:10:20 I mean, aftery ou passed out. 19:10:22 *after you 19:10:56 ais523: oh! I was going to ask you 19:11:07 ais523: you know the TAEB blog? it's down, and the Wayback Machine doesn't have it 19:11:17 do you have a copy (particularly of the Planar post), or can you ask sartak for a copy? 19:11:19 elliott: I'm aware of that; however, someone found it 19:11:25 I do have a copy of the Planar post 19:11:32 minus the images 19:11:33 hmm, where's the found version? or is it not anywhere? 19:11:40 without the images is a shame 19:11:41 elliott: from Phantom_Hoover. How can I link to a single post in a log 19:11:41 the blog itself is up elsewhere, also minus the images 19:11:46 I think I have the images saved separately, though 19:11:50 now I just have to remember where it was 19:11:56 nortti: click the space between the name and the time 19:11:58 (yes, it's weird) 19:12:00 then copy the url 19:12:02 needs js 19:12:09 ais523: thanks 19:12:16 http://taeb-nethack.blogspot.de/ 19:12:22 thank you, browser history 19:12:50 thanks 19:12:52 monqy: there you go ^ 19:13:01 bleh 19:13:04 the lack of images is annoying 19:13:13 oh, the video links aren't working either, because I deleted my youtube account 19:13:28 ais523: could you try to dig up the images? it'd be nice to have a complete copy of that post (because I like it) 19:16:03 elliott: I can't click between time and name on android browser or opera mini. Search musl on today's log and you should find it 19:16:09 elliott: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/3.tgz 19:16:22 ais523: thanks 19:17:58 ais523: incomplete 19:18:07 it doesn't have tactical-planning.png 19:18:29 elliott: that isn't the name of the file 19:18:35 or strategic-planning.png 19:18:35 in the copy of the images I have 19:18:39 well, OK 19:18:43 it's the name used in the URL 19:18:44 probably those are "tactics.png" and "strategy.png" 19:19:02 you'll have to use a bit of imagination to work out which image goes where 19:19:43 ais523: that post has no dependencies, right? ISTR a table of cost conversion things that isn't in this post, but I may be misremembering 19:19:51 elliott: never mind. I was trying it with txt version codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-05-01#161409nortti 19:20:16 Right, inst. That wasn't really a package manager. 19:20:25 elliott: that's the only post I made for that blog 19:20:29 But you could give it a URL and it would automatically build the program it links to. 19:20:30 hmm, inst was a bit like aimake, wasn't it? 19:20:45 except it relied on the thing it downloaded already having a build system of its own 19:20:51 -!- japh has changed nick to wyldstallyns. 19:21:30 ais523: OK, I'm going to upload a version of the post with images to esolangs.org. 19:21:42 heh 19:21:47 I guess nethack4.org would make more sense 19:21:56 elliott: What other software that could be classified as package managers 19:22:14 There was that thing I wrote for Kitten that was too underpowered to work. 19:22:30 Kitten? 19:24:52 A Linux distro I almost wrote but then didn't. 19:24:59 elliott: I recommend reading the post immediately before mine, btw, it's great (about the technical issues of knowing when you have a complete frame) 19:25:06 ais523: yeah, I remember that one 19:25:13 in which sorear found two bugs in BSD 19:26:14 elliott: how was your package manager too uderpowered 19:26:36 In the same way that cp does not make an adequate package manager. 19:26:55 elliott: what features it had 19:26:59 was your package manager cp 19:27:02 Little. 19:27:04 monqy: cp++ 19:27:16 object-oriented cp? 19:27:42 cp with the side effect of incrementing cp 19:28:20 cp with huge bloat over standard cp using object oriented paragdim 19:28:35 and operator overloading! 19:29:20 because everyone just loves that you can't tell what operator really does! 19:30:14 -!- elliott has left. 19:32:00 my package manager was for a pretty long time script that printed "Try compiling it yourself. I'l implement this if I feel like it." 19:32:19 nortti: why would you even run it? 19:33:23 ais523: In case my friends tried to install anything when using my computer 19:33:37 nortti: but you didn't tell them your root password, did you? 19:34:08 ais523: my system allowed installing to ~/bin 19:34:28 ais523: of course I didn't 19:34:50 well, most people wouldn't expect package managers to install there 19:35:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:35:21 ais523: it was on my system manual (5 lines of text) 19:37:36 "you can install programs to ~/bin if you want to" 19:38:10 I still don't get how they'd know what command to run 19:38:58 ais523: apt-get was symlinked to it. All of my friends use *buntu or linux mint 19:41:31 -!- shubshub has joined. 19:41:34 hi 19:41:49 !!!Batch abc 19:43:21 !help 19:43:22 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 19:43:34 !userinterps 19:43:34 ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sff 19:43:54 !show _ 19:43:54 sh echo User Interps 19:43:56 -!- shubshub has quit (Client Quit). 19:44:09 !_ 19:44:10 User Interps 19:44:14 thank you 19:45:09 !delinterp _ 19:45:09 ​Interpreter _ deleted. 19:46:03 is !bypass_ignore a botloop thing 19:46:33 no, it's for bypassing /ignore :P 19:47:23 oh that makes more sense 19:50:16 "Gasoline makes our cars run and our 19:50:58 "Gasoline makes our cars run and our Molotov cocktails burn. And depending on how much you drive, or how much you fight The Man each week, gasoline may very well be one of the biggest expenses you have. " 19:52:36 * oerjan checks whether the wiki has been locked or something :P 19:53:31 oerjan: why 19:54:09 because there have been no changes in about 2 days 19:55:16 -!- elliott has joined. 19:55:26 you're righ. Interesting 19:55:33 +t 19:56:01 i locked the wiki and deleted all pages and disabled oerjan's account and then graffitied a church 19:56:08 then blew up the government 19:56:09 * oerjan considers taking that as a hint to change the topic, but reconsiders. 19:56:18 elliott: all in a good day's work? 19:56:37 yes tomorrow i'm going to free all prisoners and destroy moon 19:56:41 *the moon 19:56:47 can't destroy moon of course, that's impossible 19:57:05 ion: Weren't you playing Crawl? 19:57:13 alexander abian will finally be vindicated! 19:57:30 oerjan: anyway, the real reason there have been no edits is because there is no quality any more 19:57:31 just ask NSQX 19:57:33 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:57:38 elliott: In a moment. 19:58:55 Namely, now. 19:59:18 "Refutations were given toward that idea by NASA saying that part of the exploded Moon would come back as a meteorite impacting the Earth and causing sufficient damage to extinguish all life, while restoring the seasons in the process." 20:00:10 ion: your terminal is still the wrong size tho 20:00:17 no u 20:00:47 exploding the moon: not as good as you'd think? 20:00:47 "Abian gained a degree of international notoriety for his claim that blowing up the Moon would solve virtually every problem of human existence." good 20:01:04 I don’t want a smaller field of vision just because Crawl’s software architecture sucks. 20:01:34 or just NASA propaganda to protect their secret moon base? 20:01:46 monqy: please edcuate ion on not being a terrible person :( 20:02:04 ion: "hugeterm is sinful" - everyone 20:02:11 ion: do you want to be sinre 20:02:23 monqy: Mr. everyone’s free to contribute a patch to fix Crawl. 20:02:24 ion: nobody will ever play your replays on tv!! 20:02:32 Good, they suck anyway. 20:02:41 yeah because you suck (because you use a big terminal) 20:02:47 * oerjan notes that abian has been dead since 1999, and feels old for remembering him. 20:03:13 i dont actually care about 20:03:15 the replay thing btw 20:03:19 i just think its wronge 20:04:15 do you use underlines for unaware or something? 20:04:18 that's weird man 20:05:13 oh i thought it was just a stack of hounds 20:07:48 monqy: oh yeah felids are fast right 20:07:53 yeah 20:07:56 good 20:08:01 are you felde 20:08:06 winning feck of chei continues to be my ultimate goal 20:08:12 chei will slow you 20:08:13 down 20:08:17 exactly 20:08:22 that's why it's terrible 20:10:54 "left tentacle" 20:11:20 haha, the aptitude sudoku solver actually lead to improvements to aptitude 20:16:26 elliott: how was your cp++ different from standard cp 20:16:41 it had a ++ after it 20:17:44 elliott: so it just copied files from place a to place b 20:18:06 with a ++ 20:18:24 ion: phantoms are fun, aren't they? 20:18:41 what the ++ did 20:19:54 ++ 20:20:08 Almost as fun as imps. 20:20:48 monqy: who are we and why are we stalking him 20:20:57 how should I know 20:20:58 that's like 20:20:59 deep 20:21:05 oh i guess i should ask squarelos instead 20:21:15 btw i originally thought "squarelos" was derived form "squirrel" somehow 20:21:16 squirrelos 20:21:19 hah 20:21:21 before i learned what it 20:21:22 actually meant 20:21:40 squirrelos is good 20:21:58 it's where the los is in the shame of a squirrel's silhouette 20:22:06 *shape 20:22:10 also in the shame 20:26:02 ion: What does that macro do? 20:26:13 Searches for corpses i can eat/offer to Trog. 20:26:18 In case i missed one 20:26:37 Ooh, this is an awesome entrance with the c. 20:26:58 What c? 20:27:03 A centaur 20:27:08 Oh, right. 20:27:17 Distortion, eh? 20:27:23 monqy must be proud of you. 20:27:42 I wonder whether to go through an escape hatch 20:28:04 im not proud of disto unless you're wielding it 20:28:20 Oh, he just has it quivered. 20:28:22 That's weird. 20:28:24 ion: Wield that bugger. 20:29:01 ion: You'll die soon, might as well enjoy the remaining time! 20:29:05 heh 20:29:31 Wait, can octopodes wield? 20:29:34 yeah 20:30:00 Wait, what's the difference between an octopode and an octopus? 20:30:31 ∋ 20:30:41 Well, okay. 20:30:44 So you're a set of creatures? 20:33:09 If i say you’re a humanoid, are you a set of creatures? 20:34:18 Yes. 20:34:31 I just don't think "humanoid" is a very descriptive species name, that's all. :p 20:39:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:39:51 OK, so here's a puzzle for people: what is nocookie.net? 20:39:53 a statue is a humanoid non-creature 20:40:10 visiting it directly just gives a fake error message, and a bunch of analytics scripts that noscript blocks 20:40:41 and it seems to be linked to wikia in some bizarre way, according to search results on the name 20:40:47 doesn't necessarily look fake to me 20:40:52 it's on the rbl blacklist 20:40:55 i can imagine a webserver serving that page for a Host header line it isn't configured to serve 20:42:47 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:43:59 "You tentacle-slap it." 20:44:19 yes 20:46:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:57:27 "Have you heard of the Internet , you colossal dinks? Little demons packing up electric O's and I's, and giving them to tiny robots to carry long tubes? (I think that's how it goes; I refused to buy the TCP/IP text during my undergrad.)" 20:58:22 nortti: actually it's a big truck 20:58:34 hello 20:58:34 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:58:36 helliott 20:58:45 That speech was hilarious 20:59:07 I see that elliott has sent me a message regarding that lesser-known proto-esolang, FALSE. 20:59:20 FSVO proto. 21:00:33 It's proto like INTERCAL is, in that it was an esolang before anyone cared to classify esolangs as a thing 21:01:33 Oh wait, it came out in the same year as the BFs? 21:01:51 is P" also a proto-esolang 21:01:57 I guess it's just one of the 3 founding esolangs, then. 21:02:01 nortti, yes. 21:07:12 what's the third founder? 21:07:18 nsqx 21:07:32 ion: WHY AREN'T MY MESSAGES COMING THROUGH 21:07:39 TeruFSX, FALSE, Brainfuck and Befunge,. 21:07:58 More like BObjective FLOLCODE. 21:08:10 yeah, befunge 21:08:27 befunge always felt suprisingly sane to me 21:08:30 elliott: They are. :-P 21:08:37 DON'T DROP THE HAT 21:08:42 WEAR TEH HATE 21:08:56 TeruFSX, yeah, but that's just because at the time 2D and stack-based were esoteric :P 21:09:20 FALSE and Befunge are surprisingly usable, really. 21:09:28 brainfuck was the first tarpit. 21:09:36 *tarpit esolang, that is. 21:10:01 Hmm. 21:10:02 I guess maybe not. 21:10:07 I wonder what Perlis was referring to by Turing tar-pit? 21:10:15 i.e. what examples he had in mind. It was the 80s, after all. 21:10:25 Maybe I'll ask— oh, he's dead. 21:12:02 assembler would be one 21:12:30 a language so universal and powerful it can't really be used? 21:12:33 Assembly language is... not a Turing tarpit. 21:12:39 it's not a turing tarpit 21:12:43 For a start, most architectures aren't Turing complete. 21:12:48 but maybe that's what Perlis was getting at 21:12:59 Hmm. 21:13:09 I suppose so, but if so it's a rather different meaning than is now generally used. 21:13:14 I guess it's unlikely he knew about P''. 21:13:23 But Turing machines were certainly around in the 80s. :p 21:13:33 is there any references to a Turing tar-pit before then? 21:13:41 the word was coined from that quote, I though 21:13:44 *term 21:14:01 Yeah, it did. 21:14:04 *was. 21:15:22 I wonder what Perlis was referring to by Turing tar-pit? 21:15:22 i.e. what examples he had in mind. It was the 80s, after all. 21:15:22 Maybe I'll ask oh, he's dead. 21:15:36 You mangled my em dash. 21:15:38 ISTR that it was in reference to some trends in computer science in the 60s. 21:16:10 Where everyone thought that the key to understanding computation was getting the simplest systems of a given computational class. 21:16:17 the early days of theoretical CS were a golden age for esolang design 21:16:27 design an esolang, prove it's Turing complete, collect PhD 21:16:28 Thus resulting in extremely compact but obtuse systems, i.e. Turing tarpits. 21:16:54 Their esolangs are all boring though. 21:16:58 Phantom_Hoover: Then Wolfram revived that school of thought! 21:17:07 :3 21:17:15 And declared himself a New Kind of Scientist. 21:17:18 Well, put it into a medically-induced coma, perhaps. 21:17:22 Aided by one Alex Smith. 21:17:33 The 523rd Alex Smith to ever exist, and the most: EVIL. 21:21:04 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 21:22:06 Re: Crawl, https://github.com/ion1/crawl-config/compare/master-base...master 21:24:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:28:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:28:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:36:55 -!- aloril has joined. 21:37:10 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:52:22 ais523: can you dig esolangs.org? 21:53:47 esolangs.org.86400INA178.79.159.81 21:54:19 ion: You died? 21:54:25 ais523: What nameserver does it use? 21:54:26 looks like it 21:54:35 Someone TV ion's death. 21:54:55 elliott: 4.2.2.1, I think 21:55:03 ais523: not what i meant :) 21:55:07 oh, esolangs.org? there isn't an authority section 21:55:18 elliott: YASD. 21:55:33 can you dig it man 21:55:37 ais523: I suspect you're just not giving dig the right options to see it 21:55:39 ion: What was it to? 21:55:47 elliott: it normally shows it by default 21:55:53 in fact, there's a specific "authority: 0" 21:55:58 Odd. 21:56:00 so I guess it's a cached value from nowhere in paritcular 21:56:11 elliott: cccc and not reading a scroll of teleportation quickly enough. 21:56:45 elliott: Where was the TV again? I thought termcast.org, but i don’t see anything that looks like a Crawl session. 21:57:07 termcast.develz.org. 21:57:31 Actually, if it's on TV then everyone will see all my stupid banter. 21:57:36 I guess we'll just never know. 22:02:12 ion: Hey, I want to play Crawl. 22:02:22 Don’t do iiitt! 22:02:26 Should I go for DsAK, GhMo, or SpAs? 22:02:42 DSAK 22:02:43 "whatever you feel like" 22:03:09 monqy: I asked ion, not you. :( 22:03:12 ion: Aww, really? 22:03:20 I’ll donate some urine, get some snacks and then watch. 22:03:38 Okay, what if not DsAK? 22:03:46 elliott: Do whatever you want. I’ve been meaning to try DS at some point, too. :-P 22:03:49 (I got annoyed with DsAK because I hate Crawl's hunger mechanism.) 22:04:01 Hmm. Is Ds ≠ DS? 22:04:07 Ds = DS, I think. 22:04:09 Ds is DS after the change 22:04:11 I'm not sure which abbreviation is canonical. 22:04:19 monqy: Oh. 22:04:20 it used to be DS then it got changed to Ds 22:04:21 But it's "Demonspawn". 22:04:22 ok 22:04:28 elliott: that's why it was changed 22:04:50 I'll play a few games of SpAs first, since I die quickly that way. 22:05:03 SpEn is nice. 22:05:36 Okay, here goes. 22:06:01 is spen any good for diving? 22:07:17 I have my own monster fan club already. 22:08:27 That was lucky. 22:10:20 monqy: Almost certainly not. OTOH, i’d suck at diving with any character. 22:10:32 Yay. :( 22:11:01 Nice, manage to escape Grinder then die to a scorpion. 22:11:10 you shouldn't have meleed it 22:11:15 Yeah. 22:11:23 If I ran away I'd probably have run into ol' Grinder again, though. 22:11:26 Well, let's try that again. 22:11:30 you could have blowguned it 22:11:35 scorps are weak to poison 22:11:43 How ironic. 22:12:24 Aww. 22:12:30 Once more and then I'll play something less silly. 22:12:43 Good idea: fight Sigmund at XL 1. 22:12:49 He was sleeping! 22:13:18 And you still had stabbing at whatever it starts at. :-P 22:14:27 Where is that bloody downstairs... 22:15:19 FINALLY 22:17:02 welp 22:17:16 lol 22:17:23 nice 22:17:35 So yesterday Bethesda posted on their Twitter that they'd release information about the upcoming DLC today. 22:18:12 Today they posted on their blog the title of the DLC, a generic poster and that they'd give more details at E3. 22:19:37 Isn't Xom great? 22:20:25 lol 22:20:50 heh 22:21:32 xom... 22:22:06 Well, that was fun. 22:22:52 You stopped already? :-( 22:23:35 Only SpAs. 22:23:45 I'm deciding DsAK vs. GhMo for my non-silly game. 22:24:16 Oops. 22:24:30 monqy: Is Spriggan Preist terrible? I just accidentally selected it :D 22:24:46 probably 22:25:07 Okay, let's try this. 22:27:04 Well, that's unhelpful. 22:28:40 *Five* altars of Xom? 22:29:08 To be able to handle a flood of new followers. 22:31:29 Is Terence scary? I forget. 22:31:41 Not too scary IIRC 22:32:12 Indeed. 22:34:01 monqy: Does sustenance do anything to ghouls? 22:34:12 See if d, drops it. 22:34:55 Hmm, what does d, do? 22:34:57 Drop useless stuff? 22:35:03 yeah 22:35:05 Unfortunately I like my scrolls of random uselessness. 22:36:03 How fast are giant newts? 22:36:36 Normal IIRC 22:37:06 yeah normal 22:38:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:31 Oh joy. 22:38:56 Eeeeh. 22:38:56 Hmm. Can you find the temple with ^Fecumenical? In any case, ^G will show if you’ve seen the entrance. 22:39:17 ion: Yes, ^Fecumenical works, because it's the "entrance to the Ecumenical Temple". 22:39:35 Yeah, i was wondering whether ^F sees such things or now. 22:39:37 t 22:41:33 Este amuleto protege a su portador de algunas formas de confusión mental, incluyendo la furia involuntaria. 22:41:43 You should play crawl in some language you don’t know. 22:42:21 book of beasts 22:42:23 Un libro con hechizos mágicos. ¡Ten cuidado, no vaya a ser que te muerda! 22:42:38 La peau d'un animal. 22:46:40 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 22:47:49 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:49:37 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:50:07 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:50:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:50:30 -!- Zetro has quit (*.net *.split). 22:50:30 -!- lahwran has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:51:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:08 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:09 -!- nvt has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:51:38 -!- tzxn3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:51:40 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:51:40 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:51:47 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:47 -!- monqy has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:47 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:47 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:48 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:48 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:48 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:49 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:49 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- itidus21 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:50 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:51 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:51 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:51 -!- comex has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:52 -!- cheater has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:52 -!- ais523 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:52 -!- cswords_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:52 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:53 -!- fizziew has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- absentswett has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:54 -!- mroman_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:58 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:58 -!- Kray has quit (*.net *.split). 22:51:58 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:13 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:58:20 -!- rvchangue has joined. 22:58:20 -!- rvchangue has quit (Changing host). 22:58:20 -!- rvchangue has joined. 22:58:28 elliott: Y U NO PLAY? 23:00:24 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:00:52 -!- coppro_ has joined. 23:00:52 -!- kmc has joined. 23:00:52 -!- nvt_ has joined. 23:00:52 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 23:00:52 -!- oklofok has joined. 23:00:52 -!- aloril has joined. 23:00:52 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:00:52 -!- elliott has joined. 23:00:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:00:52 -!- monqy has joined. 23:00:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:00:52 -!- clog has joined. 23:00:52 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:00:52 -!- fungot has joined. 23:00:52 -!- cheater has joined. 23:00:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:00:52 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:00:52 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:00:52 -!- itidus21 has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 23:00:52 -!- cswords_ has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Kray has joined. 23:00:52 -!- absentswett has joined. 23:00:52 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:00:52 -!- comex has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 23:00:52 -!- fizzie has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 23:00:52 -!- qfr has joined. 23:00:52 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:00:52 -!- variable has joined. 23:00:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:00:52 -!- Gregor has joined. 23:00:52 -!- yorick has joined. 23:00:52 -!- fizziew has joined. 23:00:52 -!- mroman_ has joined. 23:00:52 -!- ineiros has joined. 23:01:02 Oh you're kidding me. 23:01:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:01:07 -!- quintopia has joined. 23:01:32 -!- kmc has changed nick to Guest90172. 23:01:37 Hi, Guest90172. 23:01:56 -!- tzxn3_ has joined. 23:01:56 -!- Zetro has joined. 23:01:56 -!- lahwran has joined. 23:01:57 -!- Guest90172 has changed nick to kmc_. 23:01:59 jeez, split hit a lot of people here too 23:02:22 monqy: What's warding? Henzell isn't working for me. 23:02:24 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 23:02:36 -!- lahwran has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 23:02:46 * elliott wonders how you're meant to reach that pet rock store. 23:02:47 warding makes melee attacks from summoned stuff fail sometimes, and also gives you rN+ unless that changed 23:02:59 Well that sounds useless. 23:03:04 Oh, wait. 23:03:07 From other people's summoned stuff. 23:03:11 Okay, that sounds less useless. 23:03:19 pet rocks? 23:03:24 Yes. 23:03:27 Pet rocks. 23:03:28 oh 23:03:34 I think you were supposed to use the boring beetle 23:03:41 to get through the walls 23:03:44 or you could dig 23:03:46 or something 23:04:07 They give you a dangerous monster just to let you get into their pet rock store? 23:04:27 You could hit the wall really hard. 23:09:21 Back. 23:09:52 Nice. 23:10:02 Nicer. 23:10:09 :( 23:11:03 ion: You should, like, fish me out of this mess. 23:12:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:13:13 OH THANKS ION & MONQY 23:15:08 monqy: :'( 23:15:12 * ion watches 23:15:32 Convince the jelly, the frog and the orc to join your side. 23:15:44 oh, 23:15:45 a mess 23:15:50 what do you have 23:15:59 Not much. 23:16:03 mmmmmmmm-hm 23:16:08 I wanted to id those potions but: no scrolls. 23:16:08 lots of unidentified stuff I see 23:16:22 And that's kind of useless with the failure rate. 23:16:37 -!- lahwran has joined. 23:16:44 quaffid is less dangerous on ghouls than most races since potions of mutation don't really hurt you 23:16:55 nor do potions of decay 23:16:56 ,etc 23:17:06 and wasting cure mut is a non concern 23:17:26 (since you don;'t get muts) 23:17:40 Yes, but. 23:17:58 What potions have you not identified yet? 23:18:01 There's four potions with 2; at most two are going to be what I want. 23:18:10 ion: I forget how to tell. 23:18:13 \ 23:18:27 All of them. :p 23:18:33 Toggle with - 23:18:42 Why? 23:18:45 I don't recognise any potions. 23:18:47 So that would just list every potion. 23:18:55 ah, ok 23:20:03 Hey, what luck. 23:20:08 monqy: Oh, and I'm on a downstairs. 23:20:14 I lured these guys upstairs. It wasn't my proudest moment. 23:20:19 oh 23:20:25 yyeah 23:20:31 What's downstairs is more orcs, mostly. 23:20:46 kill the jelly 23:20:54 What, with 28 HP? 23:21:03 what else can you do 23:21:04 I went down from 50-something HP to like 10 in one turn. 23:21:06 the jelly is almost dead 23:21:08 I have another potion of curing. 23:21:12 was that from ascending the stairs 23:21:16 Yes. 23:21:17 (stair ascent takes a long time) 23:21:19 Oh. 23:21:22 and you can't dodge 23:21:27 ok 23:21:31 are you weak 23:21:45 Depends what you mean by weak 23:21:45 i dont know this character 23:22:21 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:22:31 That was a sincere question. 23:23:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:24:17 monqy: :( 23:25:35 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 23:25:51 ooops 23:25:52 uh 23:25:53 uh 23:26:04 Nothing happened since last time, dude. 23:26:06 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 23:26:11 squishy and low damage output 23:26:15 you seem both 23:26:24 if you took all that damamge and couldn't kill the jello 23:26:45 but maybe you just got unlucky or i underestimated the orc or something 23:26:46 "im not too bad at unarmed combat i guess" 23:26:52 im ok on the armour front 23:27:36 you don';t look okay 23:27:43 8 ac or what-have-you isn't very much 23:27:54 welp 23:28:18 time to die again 23:32:13 awesome 23:32:26 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:32:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 23:32:38 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 23:33:05 hey, fire resistance 23:33:19 i'm inevitably going to die quickly so i don't get the chance to benefit from all this loot 23:33:25 case in point 23:33:49 heh 23:33:56 I didn't expect it to follow me to the stairs. :( 23:36:41 Time for another depressing march into inevitable doom. 23:36:42 *to 23:36:45 *towards 23:36:51 Elliott's ghost (average Spriggan Assassin) comes into view. 23:37:17 Nice. 23:37:22 Why are you Trog? 23:37:40 For bersercques and the starting stats. 23:38:10 Guess who just died! 23:39:16 doooooooooooom 23:39:37 kmc: You should watch me play Crawl. It's a balst. 23:39:48 Also a blast. But mostly a balst. 23:40:00 A balst indeed. 23:40:07 a ballast 23:40:19 An active ballistomycete. 23:40:33 Yes, I admit, I googled the full name. 23:41:02 I forget if rCorr is worthwhile. 23:43:15 G - a ring of the Octopus King (left hand) {tried, AC+1 EV+1 Str+1 Dex+1 Int+1} 23:43:28 elliott: It is if you ever melée jellies. :-) 23:43:37 All the time. 23:44:00 Guess who has teleportitis! 23:44:06 yay 23:44:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:44:13 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:44:46 elliott: Did you eat a leprechaun/nymph/tengu corpse?! 23:44:50 No. 23:47:24 Not a scroll of teleportation!!!! NOOOO 23:47:28 I might... TELEPORT 23:47:44 Has the potion of heal wounds been nerfed in the last six months? 23:48:10 Ask monqy; I only started playing 10 days ago. 23:49:48 is that like summoning sickness 23:50:04 kmc: What, teleportitis? 23:50:13 Teleportitis is where you teleport randomly every now and then. 23:50:57 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:51:00 -!- fizziew has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:51:05 kmc: You should play NetHack! (You shouldn't play NetHack.) 23:53:58 -!- fizziew has joined. 23:56:08 ion: Help, I've had teleportitis for like a billion turns now. :( 23:56:33 > how many turns is a billion 23:56:42 "rip lambdabot" 23:56:55 elliott: Get a potion of cure mutation! 23:57:08 cutation 23:57:10 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:57:13 that. 23:57:16 ion: Not mutation. 23:57:17 Cursed ring. 23:57:25 Get a potion of cure cursed ring! 23:57:25 Get a scroll of remove curse. 23:57:31 ion: I've tried. 23:57:32 cursed ring 23:57:34 I've id'd about 5 scrolls. 23:57:36 None of them are remove curse. :( 23:58:18 An iguana, a hippogriff, a giant frog, a jelly, an orc warrior and 2 small zombies come into view. 23:58:39 k A manticore and a hill giant come into view. 23:59:41 ion: Nice. 2012-05-02: 00:01:54 monqy: Is an ancient robe worth trying on? 00:02:31 elliott: How ancient? 00:02:36 For a heavy armor guy, i’d try it out of curiosity (have a scroll of remove curse or read detect curse first). For a robe guy, definitely. 00:02:44 You might want to wash it first. 00:03:15 shachaf: elliott likes other people’s clothes unwashed. 00:03:30 You finish putting on the cursed -1 robe of Folly {-Cast Int-5 Curse}. 00:03:30 You feel stupid. 00:03:30 Oops, that feels deathly cold. 00:03:35 :-) 00:03:49 This will go well with my cursed ring of teleportation. 00:04:02 Remember what i said about having a scroll of remove curse? 00:04:04 elliott: id yoha ve emove curse? 00:04:08 -!- elliott has left. 00:04:25 I think elliott is trying to teach me not to do that. 00:05:03 You could ssh to the crawl server and ask him that in game. 00:05:32 -!- elliott has joined. 00:05:33 He doesn't answer my Cruestions. 00:05:36 hi elliott 00:05:38 ion: Take a glance at my game. 00:05:39 helliott 00:05:50 elliott: nice 00:06:03 Are you fighting Pistachio? 00:06:22 YAY YOU WON! 00:06:27 That was a tough nut to crack, eh? 00:07:03 I guess you had to draw him out of his shell first. 00:07:41 (not good at pistachio puns, please send help) 00:07:57 01:07 eustachio[3/3]: Beware his glorious mustache! Not to be confused with pistachio. 00:08:16 good pun 00:16:07 it occurs that https://github.com/kmcallister/qoppa is kind of an esolang and so i should mention it here 00:20:51 Thank you for your minimal contribution to the channel! 00:21:11 Oh, we have another new member of the wiki who doesn't know how to use preview. 00:21:25 And they made a brainfuck derivative. 00:21:27 It occurs that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language is kind of an esolang and so i should mention it here 00:21:45 "The language utilizes cellular automation" It... does? 00:22:08 "The language utilizes a cellular automation. The automation evolves in a data structure known as the Nevermore, hence, the language's name. The structure is a bit array of length 8 with an initial value set to 0 [0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]." 00:22:10 I think we're being trolled. 00:22:23 ion: [[Finnish language]] is too eso for my taste. :-( 00:23:55 If anyone wants to go on a ride, start at http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Nevermore&diff=next&oldid=32178 and keep hitting "newer edit". 00:26:17 kmc: You realise Scheme has functions to support alist munging ,right? 00:26:25 bind could be a lot simpler (although you'd need to change (var binding) to (var . binding)). 00:27:00 Oh, hmm. 00:34:54 elliott: I entered the Lair, but i think i’ll stop for now. 00:35:02 More like Liar. 00:35:15 i did not realize that 00:35:16 Lawyer 00:35:20 which functions? 00:35:31 *munging, right? 00:35:33 kmc: I'm not sure which one I was thinking of looking at bind. 00:35:39 kmc: But it definitely has an insert-into-alist function. 00:36:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:37:38 * elliott started to play but then immediately quit. 00:37:42 It is a [[brainfuck]] derivative designed to be as difficult and obscure to program in. 00:37:46 You accidentally the comparison. 00:46:34 <…> so given that this is math 12, does it need to be conanical form? 00:46:36 O’Brien? 00:50:21 ion: That's a fancy '\'' you've got there. 00:50:35 '’' 00:50:45 Nonsense. We speak ASCII in here. 00:50:57 O'Brien was clearly the best person in _1984_. He knew what was up. 00:51:45 kmc: "So apply takes the uglier approach of quoting each argument to prevent double-evaluation." 00:51:46 Given that this is #esoteric, shouldn’t we speak something like EBCDIC here? 00:51:52 kmc: FWIW, I think the solution to this is to simply drop apply. 00:52:02 It's not a very meaningful operation on operatives. 00:52:55 Oh, by the way, if anyone wants to read ais523's post on the Planar NetHack AI with the pictures, it's up at http://esolangs.org/planar/. 00:53:04 Long-term validity of URL not guaranteed. 00:53:33 @time monqy 00:53:35 Local time for monqy is Tue May 1 17:53:34 2012 00:53:35 elliott: well, can you get rid of 'apply' in the interpreter? 00:53:37 @tonqy 00:53:37 Unknown command, try @list 00:53:38 without nastiness? 00:53:46 kmc: Probably. I'd have to see where it's used. Was that in the post? 00:53:51 i agree it's not meaningful on operatives; my 'apply' will produce nonsense if you use it on a not-applicative 00:53:54 yes 00:54:03 If you're going for Scheme polyglotting, then yes, you'll need something silly like that. 00:54:10 That's because Scheme doesn't use operatives :P 00:55:43 i don't know if it quite counts as polyglot 00:55:50 but yeah, that's almost the whole point of the article 00:56:06 Huh. Early OS X development releases were actually for the IBM PC. 00:56:18 * elliott would just write a metacircular evaluator and a separate Scheme interpreter. 00:56:21 But that's no fun, I know. 00:56:45 pikhq: This thing? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/IBM_PC_5150.jpg 00:57:23 elliott: No, the later 32-bit IBM compatibles. Obviously. 00:57:59 But there's no other damned way of referring to that hacked-up arch. 00:59:02 The edits just keep coming in. 01:02:31 ^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(:)!(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)((!^~)())(:)!((:(~:(,)*S~^!^)~a*^:^~!a~^*a*)~a*^:^):^ 01:02:32 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597, ...out of time! 01:02:57 ^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)((!^~)())((:(~:(,)*S~^!^)~a*^:^~!a~^*a*)~a*^:^):^ 01:02:58 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597, ...out of time! 01:04:03 elliott: well the claim is that you can start with a tiny fexpr language and produce something with enough syntax to be usable for 'real programming' 01:04:12 Right. 01:04:18 (ignoring the LOLPARENTHESES crowd) 01:04:21 You don't necessarily need to make your interpreter valid Scheme for that, though. 01:04:27 it makes the claim stronger, though 01:04:32 Fair enough. 01:04:50 * elliott wasn't dissing the article, just saying I'd drop apply were I making my own operative-based language. 01:04:55 sure 01:05:00 i didn't think you were dissing the article :) 01:05:21 if i were making my own operative-based language i might suck it up and have primitive wrap/unwrap like Kernel 01:05:45 but for the demonstration, that gets in the way of "omg eval is only three lines" 01:06:02 I don't like wrap/unwrap at all. I'd rather build the evaluation logic into lambda. 01:06:59 Hmm 01:07:10 Lazy Newb Pack comes with alternate keybindings 01:07:20 eh? 01:07:26 And other stuff that seems like it would be useful on more than just Windows 01:07:32 monqy, for Dwarf Fortress 01:07:41 oh 01:13:28 just 01:13:28 play 01:13:29 stock 01:13:30 df 01:13:32 it's easy 01:13:41 hello monqy 01:13:59 Sgeo: ok by stock i mean "stock with dwarf therapist" but that's it 01:14:00 elliott, I'll be fine with the guide on the wiki, right? 01:14:07 yes, the wiki guide is good 01:14:21 (and you won't need dwarf therapist until you get a bunch of dwarfs and need to futz about with micromanaging the labours) 01:14:44 I don't wanna micromanage labour 01:14:48 tough 01:14:58 ("labour" is a technical term here) 01:15:07 I know what it means 01:18:24 Ugh 01:18:28 Need to fix the sound 01:19:10 your dwarfs are unionizing? 01:19:21 Sgeo: you uh 01:19:32 could just play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6FXeupOp04 in the background 01:19:34 since that's the only sound 01:20:17 elliott, YouTube is crap for me 01:20:46 Sgeo: the mp3 or ogg or whatever file is in the game directory somewhere :P 01:20:47 in data/ I think 01:20:59 Hmm, that's fine 01:21:12 Wait, that music was actually in the game? 01:21:33 Lumpio-: That's what plays constantly in a loop throughout a game of Dwarf Fortress in Fortress mode, yes. 01:21:45 :V 01:22:06 Are you implying you haven't played DF? :( 01:22:11 Argh, what settings do I use to make DF be decently large? 01:22:21 I know I've done it before 01:22:21 Sgeo: You press the maximise button. 01:22:40 If you mean font size, you probably don't want that any bigger, or it'll be difficult to see enough at once. 01:22:46 Me? 01:22:48 I changed the WINDOWEDX and WINDOWEDY and curses thing 01:22:57 Lumpio-: Yes. 01:23:04 Sgeo: What's wrong with maximise? 01:23:10 I watched somebody play it on youtube 01:23:28 elliott, that I've done it before without maximize and maximize means harder to chat at the same time 01:23:30 Too much micromanagement. 01:23:40 Lumpio-: It's not really as micromanagey as it looks. 01:23:44 Also, I don't like smiley faces 01:23:47 Some people play it like that but they're boring. 01:23:52 Little smiley faces 01:23:57 I like beards 01:23:58 Also the whole "view one horizontal level of the world at once" thing looks confusing as hell. 01:24:03 Sgeo: You'll end up maximising it anyway. And they come as beards by default. 01:24:07 It would benefit from modern 3D graphics, at least above ground 01:24:14 Lumpio-: Oh please. 01:24:15 But I bet they're too lazy to implement that. 01:24:17 They say that about roguelikes. 01:24:32 tbf df is uglier than roguelikes 01:24:35 elliott, no they don't 01:24:36 It's a deliberate design decision; Slaves to Armok: God of Blood (the game to which DF is a sequel) was 3D. 01:25:00 Sgeo: Yes, they do. 01:25:09 Sgeo: If they don't, you've configured something brokenly. 01:25:19 Are you running it with terminal output or something? 01:25:27 elliott, I am not 01:25:56 And it was the same when I installed via Lazy Newb Pack on a school computer with no graphics set 01:26:12 Well, the default smilies do have beards. Admittedly it looks kinda like ":D" if you don't know they're beards. 01:26:15 And it was the same when I played DF a long time ago and changed a configuration option to fix it 01:26:28 ...oh 01:26:49 Hmm, wait, that's how it looks in CP 437 too. Well, whatever, for the purposes of DF they're beards. 01:26:52 hmm, anyone, perhaps Gregor, know of any good free MIDI desynthesizers? 01:26:57 I should make the water levels show up 01:27:01 as in, you put a .ogg or whatever in and get a .mid out 01:27:09 there's one in the repositories here but it doesn't actually work 01:27:11 ais523: cat /dev/urandom 01:27:18 elliott: that's pretty unlikely to work 01:27:23 It'll work as well as anything else. 01:27:25 Have you seen recent changes? 01:27:35 no, should I? 01:27:46 Well, uh. 01:27:47 Sure. 01:27:48 and this should not be a massively hard problem, I've been considering writing one myself if there aren't any 01:28:04 I recommend viewing them all in order for the best experience. 01:28:25 (You have to set ?limit=100 to see all of them.) 01:28:41 ah, OK 01:28:47 someone should tell them about the preview button 01:28:55 my RSS feed bunched them into 7 changes 01:29:06 the really hilarious thing is, I don't think they removed the BF instructions yet 01:29:30 I guess I could just look at the page to make sure 01:29:36 also, that language reminds me weirdly of Malbolge 01:30:10 ais523: it's best to view the changes in order 01:30:15 because it becomes about 01:30:18 4 different languages 01:30:22 in order 01:30:29 I can't tell at a glance whether it's harder or easier than Malbolge to program in, that's probably a good thing 01:30:30 and ends up in weird half-way states along the way 01:30:36 also, you know who gets to tell them about the preview button? :) 01:33:00 me, I guess 01:33:04 Xamarin has just announced that they got the Java part of Android ported to C# via machine translation. 01:33:10 oh boy, the comments on that one are going to be great 01:33:26 (it puts five different fanboy/troll factions in conflict) 01:33:54 ais523: hey, what would happen if I pointed TAEB at a Crawl server? 01:34:13 elliott, anything wrong with curses square? 01:34:24 elliott: it /might/ manage to start a game, but it would error out as soon as the game started due to not being able to parse its stats 01:34:28 Sgeo: square fonts are bad 01:34:32 make text difficult to read 01:34:34 Ah 01:34:35 and even then, you'd need to put the class/race in the RC file 01:34:52 oh, hmm, that wouldn't work either, it'd just replace it with a NetHack RC file, which would cause Crawl to spew warnings 01:34:53 ais523: can't I just make it assume things about the stats if it can't parse them? :) 01:34:57 elliott: in short, go for it, it'll be hilarious 01:35:00 and no, that's not how TAEB works 01:35:14 I was working on my own Crawl bot using TAEB technologies, but didn't get very far 01:35:27 due to problems trying to parse things like items; it was surprisingly hard to get it to chop and eat corpses 01:35:42 how hard is it to get TAEB running? 01:35:55 I'm a bit scared about all the dependencies, given that it's a bit bitrotten by now 01:36:16 we fix the dependency bitrot every several months 01:36:29 so the bitrot is rarely all that bad 01:36:38 then why is the last repo commit a year old? 01:36:47 last time we tried, it wouldn't run on my machine but would on other people's 01:36:53 and wrong repo, I guess, are you taking it from my repo? 01:37:06 link? 01:37:14 https://gitorious.org/taeb/ais523 01:37:14 (also, how long does it take to install all the deps?) 01:37:35 maybe 20 minutes to half an hour, faster than that if you aren't on a netbok 01:37:37 *netbook 01:37:53 any known OS X–related problems? 01:37:56 hmm, I should really put the dependency list in the repo 01:38:03 elliott: it hasn't been tested on OS X for several years 01:38:08 great 01:38:24 which of Planar and whatever the default AI is called are most likely to fail less :) 01:38:27 or fail more entertainingly 01:39:27 you should try to get Demo working first before doing anything else 01:39:39 but TAEB won't reach the point the AI is called anyway, if you run it on a Crawl server 01:39:58 bah, the time vs. fun assessment is rapidly going in the wrong direction :) 01:40:15 you should write a nethack bot that can cope with absolutely any screen it gets 01:40:38 the /correct/ behaviour upon encountering a screen never generated by NetHack is calling a human for help 01:41:05 no, it's marching on cluelessly 01:41:12 elliott, ais523: Ooh, the NetHack AI is cool. 01:41:25 ion: referring to the post I linked? 01:41:31 yes 01:41:32 ion: "the" is possibly a bad article; there are two major frameworks and three major AIs 01:41:55 http://esolangs.org/planar/ 01:41:57 have any of them won 01:42:05 ion: TAEB::AI::PLanar is mine 01:42:09 monqy: none of them have got near 01:42:17 I’d love to see a video capture of that in action. 01:42:26 ion: NAO has ttyrecs 01:42:31 autorobin's got much further in Crawl than any of the NetHack AIs have in NetHack 01:42:35 you could probably request one for one of the TVs 01:42:39 yikes 01:42:50 monqy: the reason is that Crawl is a much more straightforward game than NetHack 01:42:55 it's a lot more about not typoing than about actual thought 01:42:58 NetHack has a lot more special cases than Crawl 01:42:59 so it suits bots quite well 01:43:12 and the kinds of spoilers it has are the kinds that bots can't learn, IMO 01:43:14 also, Crawl has felids, and Trog 01:43:22 ais523: is nethack about actual thought 01:43:26 no 01:43:32 it's about looking up spoilers 01:43:38 FeBe is a really really good combo for bots, because it's balanced and yet incapable of using most items and all spells 01:43:41 Crawl is about looking up monster stats 01:43:43 monqy: it is sometimes, but only if you play badly 01:43:45 are any roguelikes about actual thought :( 01:43:50 rogue is about not dying 01:43:53 monqy: Shiren? 01:44:02 but it's commercial 01:44:02 ADOM is about dying 01:44:17 Dwarf Fortress is about dwarfs in a fortress 01:44:20 robotfindskitten is about finding kitten 01:44:21 elliott: ADOM is about crazy complicated triggers that have effects hundreds of thousands of turns later 01:44:40 ADOM is about ancient domains of mystery 01:44:50 Crawl needs monster spoilers or you die; ADOM needs plot spoilers or you find you've made the game effectively unwinnable a week later 01:44:55 NetHack is about hacking the net 01:45:16 no it isn't, that's Uplink 01:45:43 hmm, so what I will do, is upgrade all relevant modules, just as I recently upgraded Perl 01:45:45 then try to run TAEB 01:46:05 and then bug #moose (or ##moose perhaps) for help, if I can't fix the obvious problems myself 01:46:08 time for a bit derotting 01:46:18 ais523: should I try and write a Crawl bot? (N.B. there's a fair chance that if I do this I'll never go back to playing Crawl normally, which I enjoy 01:46:25 elliott: anyway, I just committed dependencies.sh 01:46:36 I'd say get sick of Crawl first, /then/ write the bot 01:46:50 that was my plan 01:46:54 I'll even lend you Brute's source code if you like, so you can skip the fiddly parts like dgl login 01:47:06 ais523: I was going to do the Lua script thing 01:47:09 since Crawl already has scripting hooks 01:47:20 oh, OK 01:47:22 and then move to a standalone thing once it outgrows that 01:47:26 they had to ban autorobin, eventually 01:47:31 what 01:47:32 ban howso? 01:47:36 because it runs on the server, and it used 25% CPU 01:47:39 elliott: kindly ask people to stop running it 01:47:45 great definition of ban 01:47:57 monqy: guess who's playing normal crawl 01:48:05 ok 01:48:05 elliott: elliptic? 01:48:06 elliott, where is SHOW_FLOW_AMOUNTS? 01:48:11 ais523: yes; also me 01:48:16 Sgeo: dunno, but don't bother turning it on 01:48:41 elliott: I don't know if elliptic's actually playing, it's a guess 01:48:49 elliott, wait, what? 01:48:53 elliptic isn't playing 01:48:54 you implied that you were quite strongly, so it /wouldn't/ be a guess 01:49:07 has ais523 seen me playing crawl 01:49:12 * ais523 logic 01:49:25 oh boy, a cursed amulet that I don't know what it is is around my neck 01:49:32 I'm sure it must be something really helpful 01:49:38 why did you put it on 01:49:46 i didn't know it was cursed 01:50:03 amulets tend not to autoid 01:50:15 you never know, it might be helping me 01:50:31 and it probably woulnd'nt help you at this point eithr 01:50:35 how much str for plate armour again 01:50:43 18 01:50:45 thx 01:51:17 lage 01:51:31 maybe i should go light armour this time 01:52:19 ok 01:52:25 monqy: it was probably an amulet of get killed by terrence 01:52:34 hmm, perhaps I should make another serious attempt to win Crawl, because I feel I can't insult it properly unless I've actually won it 01:52:42 but I just know I'm going to end up hating it again 01:52:44 more than usual, I mean 01:53:00 I started playing so I could authoritatively dislike it 01:53:03 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:53:11 elliott: it takes a while 01:53:19 see my hate is justified because i've won 01:53:19 that's still the plan, it's just that the dislike is going to be less than my baseline level of dislike for roguelikes 01:53:21 which wasn't what i was expecting 01:53:26 (note: that still doesn't mean i'll like it) 01:53:44 it irritates me less than nethack when i die at least 01:53:53 hmm 01:53:56 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:54:02 it's the other way round for me, but possibly because I'm better at not dying in NetHack 01:54:15 when I do die in NetHack, unless it's very early game it typically feels like my own fault, unlike in Crawl 01:54:25 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 01:54:31 well, 99.99% of all my roguelike deaths are YASDs 01:54:45 but with nethack there's the spoiler element; with crawl it's my fault for blindly attacking $powerful_thing 01:54:52 with nethack, it's "my fault" for not knowing $stupid_spoiler 01:54:56 _that_would_have_saved_me 01:55:05 elliott: this is why #nethack exists 01:55:15 they're both death-by-not-reading-spoilers, but NetHack's are more annoying 01:55:28 ais523: I want to play a roguelike, not IRC :) 01:56:27 "You could also have learned any of this by viewing the in-game item description." 01:56:32 monqy: help, henzell is bullying me 01:56:54 oh no 01:57:56 hmm 01:58:12 monqy: help 01:58:19 hello 01:58:22 hi 01:58:25 shachaf: what's the concern 01:58:45 OK, you know what's annoying? when you see what seems like a meme in various places but it isn't on knowyourmeme.com and isn't turned up by a websearch on its name 01:59:07 maybe it isn't a meme 01:59:17 You know what's annoying? 01:59:22 monqy: indeed, but in that case the coincidence is still annoying, and you still have no idea what people were referring to 01:59:25 The modern usage of the word "meme" on the Internet. 01:59:38 Whoever came up with that ought to be removed. 01:59:42 hmm, anyone, perhaps Gregor, know of any good free MIDI desynthesizers? // define "desynthesizer" 01:59:48 Gregor: he does so several lines later 01:59:54 Gregor: something that takes synthesizer output and produces a MIDI file 01:59:59 MIDI synthesizer output, that is 02:00:02 Ah. 02:00:07 i.e. the inverse operation of a MIDI synthesizer 02:00:08 des yn the sizer 02:00:25 No, all the ones I know of are truly awful. 02:00:39 I thought that might be the answer 02:00:48 ais523: why doesn't nethack have tab? 02:00:51 can't be any worse than scolily, the only one in the repositories, unless they actually contain malware or the like 02:00:54 The fundamental problem is that distinguishing overtones from tones is infeasible, so you have a sensitivity parameter, and no sensitivity parameter ever works usefully. 02:00:57 elliott: What's tab? 02:01:01 a key 02:01:10 Gregor: oh, I came up with a cunning plan for that 02:01:20 elliott: NetHack has that key. 02:01:33 Tryocmyol sounds like a medicine. 02:01:38 *Tryocomyol. 02:01:59 lowest frequency must be a tone, then overtones are multiples of that, the nth overtone tends to have an amplitude of 1/n or less compared to the fundamental, if it's more than that you have another tone 02:02:09 this doesn't work on pulsetrains, but who uses those? 02:02:38 ais523: I've used WAON (the site for which appears to have vanished), and would not recommend it. 02:02:45 Oh wait, http://waon.sourceforge.net/ 02:02:47 There, a site. 02:02:57 Gregor: does it produce nonempty output? that's the problem I was having with scolily, that it wouldn't produce anything but a blank file 02:03:07 lol, well, it produces a MID, yes. 02:03:21 also, that it took input only from the microphone, which was annoying 02:03:25 waon has the lovely property that if you turn its sensitivity WAY down, you can produce a MIDI file from human speech that will render recognizable human speech. 02:03:36 They should make all species hunger work like ghoul hunger in Crawl. 02:03:44 I managed to figure out how to configure pulseaudio to copy the speaker output to the default input 02:03:48 Gregor: that's cool 02:03:51 elliott: what about mummy hunger 02:03:57 monqy: that can stay how it is 02:04:00 Hmm, tab moves toward and/or attacks a visible monster? 02:04:09 although, it seems to also copy timing properties if you do that; if nothing's going to the speaker, anything trying to read from the microphone freezes, UNIX pipe style 02:04:27 which is brilliant but not if you're scolily and add a 4 second countdown from the microphone's timing source for no god reason 02:05:40 Gregor: wow, their Ubuntu package is built against /gutsy/ 02:05:43 I think I'm going to recompile :) 02:06:16 brace for Gregor Debian superiority 02:06:35 No package in Debian. 02:06:45 no package in precise, either 02:06:49 Which should mean that it's not worthwhile. 02:06:52 Which it isn't ;) 02:06:55 but that's not surprising given that they're offering a gutsy package on their website 02:07:03 Gregor: well I'm going to try it anyway 02:07:21 hmm, a /really/ good desynthesizer could probably reverse-engineer the soundfont 02:07:40 I'm going to get it just to remake some voice->midi->voice stuff, which is fun X-D 02:08:19 _d - a scroll labeled TWAT ERACAPAC 02:08:22 good scroll name 02:10:05 * ais523 wonders why fftw depends on openmpi 02:10:37 ais523: hey, what god would you go with for GhMo? 02:10:46 XOM 02:10:58 elliott: needs a combat-character-oriented god; trog is out for obvious reasons 02:10:58 just play ghck, shachaf 02:10:59 The all-purpose god. 02:11:09 ais523: hmm, which obvious reasons? 02:11:11 monqy: help, what's a ghck 02:11:16 elliott: undead can't berserk 02:11:34 trog offers more than that, but ok :P 02:11:44 yes, but it's a serious nerf to lose one of his main abilities 02:12:06 makhleb would work; yred would work, if you prefer that playstyle, but is a bit more niche than makhleb 02:12:25 lugonu would work but is hard to end up worshipping in the first place 02:12:33 elliott: I’ll play a bit of Lair. 02:12:49 ion: watching (bigterm is still sinful) 02:12:56 a lot of gods won't accept you (fedhas, tso, ely, zin, beogh), which makes things easier 02:12:59 ais523: if I wanted lugonu I could have gone GhAK 02:13:03 right, indeed 02:13:04 (which is fun to pronounce) 02:13:08 if you want yred, just play ghdk; if you want lugonu, just play ghak 02:13:15 right 02:13:30 and yred ally management is annoying 02:13:35 monqy: picking up a god at temple is often a good idea even if they're a starting god, because then you get benefits from a different background 02:13:46 Trying to find the perfect soundfont to render this in X-D 02:13:48 if you're planning to cast, you could go sif or veh 02:13:56 but those are bad ideas if you aren't casting 02:14:03 i'm not casting 02:14:08 ais523: monk benefits "you get the piety you would have gotten if you had just started with the god" 02:14:28 monqy: that's quite a recent addition, so I forgot about it 02:14:41 do monks have a better starting inventory than death knights, etc? 02:14:52 if so, that'd be a big reason for mo over dk 02:15:11 monk inventory is pretty plain 02:15:23 elliott: you could also go nemelex, who is broken for all characters but needs both a lot of spoilers and a lot of patience to use correctly 02:15:35 http://codu.org/tmp/snd2mid2snd.ogg IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL 02:15:36 monqy has told me about nemelex and now i never want to play nemelex 02:15:39 unless they fixed that, in which case he's just bad as it was the main point 02:16:01 not a lot of options not considered, at this point, given that I don't consider xom a serious choice 02:16:06 Gregor: Can I have that in MP3? 02:16:10 oh, does ashenzari still exist? you could do that 02:16:12 I can't play oggs here. :( 02:16:14 elliott: ... no. 02:16:17 ais523: Ashenzari still exists, yes. 02:16:18 Gregor: :'( 02:16:22 elliott: Why? 02:16:22 Gregor: WAV? 02:16:25 Because OS X. 02:16:39 http://codu.org/tmp/snd2mid2snd.mp3 02:16:41 elliott: ashenzari is intended to be a low-maintenance god needing not a lot of concentration from the player 02:16:44 Firefox and Chrome both support ogg ;) 02:16:49 (I theoretically have Perian installed, but it doesn't work.) 02:16:52 not sure if they succeeded at that 02:17:10 Gregor: Not sure what your definition of recognisable speech is X-D 02:17:20 ais523: I ask because I went for Makhleb previously. 02:17:20 kiku is a bad choice for a non-caster; and chei the devs can't decide how they actually want to work 02:17:23 (On monqy's recommendation.) 02:17:26 with the result that it changes a lot how he acts 02:17:36 makhleb was a good recommendation, but I'd say go ash if you want a change 02:17:37 Chei I can never take seriously because monqy laughed at it. 02:17:38 elliott: Recognizable /as/ speech. 02:18:11 elliott: the problem with chei is that his fundamental idea is full of drawback, so they give amazing advantages to balance it out, and then nerf it whenever they look like they're actually helpful 02:18:12 and this goes in cycles 02:18:18 haha 02:18:34 problem is the advantages aren't actually amazing, sorry chei 02:18:36 :'( 02:18:42 monqy: they /used/ to be, remember the ubernaga thing? 02:18:54 mmm 02:18:55 presumably he's in a nerf phase at the moment, based on what you're saying 02:19:06 he hasn't really been buffed since then 02:19:14 "big nerf phase" 02:19:28 if you want more choices, there's okawaru, and uhh wow how am I forgetting everything 02:19:34 monqy, elliott update 02:19:41 oka's better for weapon-dependent characters 02:19:44 im level 2 now 02:20:01 ais523: how so? sure you get weapon gifts but 02:20:24 monqy: and the other abilities are height and maste 02:20:33 (used to be might and haste, but they mixed them up a bit) 02:20:34 you mean heroism and finesse 02:20:38 yes, I do :) 02:20:41 yes you do 02:20:41 ok 02:20:42 so 02:20:53 how do those work better for weapons than unarmed?? 02:21:52 finesse works badly on things with short delays, doesn't it? 02:23:02 height and maste :D 02:23:04 it halves attack delay. so minimum delay uc would go from what is it 5 to 3 02:23:27 or maybe they use random rounding there now 02:23:40 oh wait no they wouldn't since isn't 3 the hard cap 02:23:43 or is it not 02:23:52 "bad at memorys" 02:24:23 monqy: it's the cap I was talking about 02:24:58 anyway i don't see it as a significant deterrent from going oka on unarmed 02:25:07 well, OK 02:25:10 unarmed is stronger than most weapons anyway 02:25:18 monqy: even with the aux nerfs? 02:25:26 oh, they were nerfed recently? 02:25:46 was it after being buffed 02:25:56 oh, they were buffed again? 02:25:58 lmao 02:26:01 I was talking about the nerf before that 02:26:09 elliott: this is common with all sorts of things in Crawl 02:26:26 heavy armour is the most famous, it was buffed and nerfed on alternate releases for five releases, possibly more 02:26:36 meph is a bit of an exception, it only ever gets nerfed 02:26:59 not enough 02:26:59 alternate releases? 02:27:32 wasn't it nerfed in 0.6, buffed slightly in 0.7, buffed greatly in 0.8, maybe nerfed a bit in 0.9, i forget what happened in 0.10, 0.11 02:27:32 monqy: nerf then buff then nerf then buff then… 02:27:45 oh, perhaps I'm misremembering slightly 02:27:52 i wasn't around for 0.5 02:27:59 0.5 it was easily the best build there 02:28:07 yeah that's what I understand 02:28:09 MDFi was the "win easily" combo recommended for beginners 02:28:14 and it was a joke or something in 0.6 02:28:20 ion: You can't say brb and then not tell me when you start again! 02:28:40 elliott: /were/ you right back? if not, you were just disobeying his admonition and it was your fault! 02:28:46 elliott: “right” after i said it. 02:28:54 if someone tells you to be right back, you should be right back! 02:29:00 Perhaps 5–10 10 seconds. 02:29:16 Err, more likely 10. 02:30:56 1010 seconds 02:31:05 The time it took me to type ^SO/regenerationI#:wqp plus a few seconds of thinking time. 02:31:56 Thinking? In Crawl? 02:32:01 No, in vi 02:34:04 126 stones? That's a many stone. 02:34:05 brb. 02:34:16 You can have some of them. 02:35:02 bacque 02:35:03 klqwje 02:35:44 ais523: anyway, what do you mean Xom's not a serious option? :) 02:35:59 elliott: his main purpose is to throw extra randomness into your game 02:36:06 which in practice, means extra deaths 02:36:13 s/randomness/[Ff]un/ 02:36:32 xom helping you isn't very helpful as you can't rely on it, xom hurting you can be very hurtful as it can come at a time you really don't want it to 02:36:45 monqy: listen to this boring dude 02:36:51 Clearly, Xom best incorporates the DF motto 02:37:03 nah, Xom is nothing like DF 02:37:12 elliott: boring and serious are similar concepts 02:37:21 Losing is Fun, I mean 02:37:22 I said he wasn't serious; rather, he's the frivolous option 02:37:26 so if you want frivolity, great 02:37:29 with DF, it's the combination of a bunch of perfectly normal, logical, and measured aspects into a gigantic clusterfuck that kills you 02:37:37 with Xom, it's just Xom that kills you 02:38:02 Gregor: haha, wow waon is bad 02:38:06 DF is a sequel? 02:38:10 Sgeo: Yes. 02:38:13 just like you said 02:38:18 but it's /still/ not as bad as scolily 02:38:40 Sgeo: The complete name of the game is Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress. 02:38:47 Where's Chapter I? 02:38:55 ...or wait, were you joking 02:38:58 That's Slaves to Armok: God of Blood; http://www.bay12games.com/armok/. 02:39:00 No, I wasn't joking. 02:39:19 There's an #esoteric log where fizzie quotes I-think-mooz talking about his experiences with it. 02:39:31 It shares the "excruciating detail about the state your various body parts are in" aspect with DF. 02:39:36 But it's a single-player 3D RPG-style thing. 02:39:41 3D? 02:40:12 Yes. 02:40:20 http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/3549/armokky.jpg 02:40:43 More screenshots: http://www.bay12games.com/armok/ascreens.html 02:41:12 Sgeo: In fact, Dwarf Fortress was a rather infamously vapourware sequel; it was announced in 2002 or so, and came out in 2006. 02:41:30 AFK 02:41:40 (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Millionth_topic_pool#Video_games) 02:41:40 letting it sink in? 02:41:54 * elliott wonders what monqy is talking about. 02:42:00 19:41:30 < Sgeo> AFK 02:42:03 Gregor: haha, WAON's output actually made timidity SIGABRT 02:42:05 Oh. 02:42:25 ion: Spiders!!! 02:42:27 Do spiders 02:42:31 DO SPIDERS 02:42:36 ^rainbow SPIDERS 02:42:36 SPIDERS 02:42:39 ais523: Don't use timidity anyway, it is made of lame. 02:42:41 Use fluidsynth. 02:42:41 do spiders 02:42:44 ^rainbow S P I D E R S 02:42:45 S P I D E R S 02:42:47 ion: are you doing spiders 02:42:49 (Which is also lame, but in different ways) 02:42:57 Gregor: waon's documented as a reverse of timidity 02:43:01 so I'm round-tripping to see if it works 02:43:23 That is a rather silly way to document it X-D 02:43:46 skeletonsskeletonsskeletons 02:45:28 * ais523 wonders what they test WAON on 02:45:37 surely they've /noticed/ its output is unintelligible? 02:45:58 monqy: I think i’ll leave it for later. :-) 02:46:08 :( 02:46:48 "Okay, then." --Crawl 02:46:50 ion: See? 02:46:53 Even Crawl agree. 02:47:03 good point 02:47:15 ^rainbot ELIOT PRIDE 02:47:18 ^rainbow ELIOT PRIDE 02:47:18 ELIOT PRIDE 02:47:20 Gregor: btw, I just opened snd2mid2snd, you have a nicely musical voice 02:47:36 can't make out what you're /saying/, though 02:48:48 yessss 02:48:50 ... 02:48:51 spiderssssssssss 02:48:53 Come onnnn 02:48:54 I AM TWILIGHT SPARKLE 02:48:56 Yesssss 02:48:58 hmm, and I see what you mean about the competitors; one is commercial, runs only on Windows and Irix, and was last developed in 1998, and the other was hosted on geocities (and not archived by reocities) 02:48:58 Spidersssssss 02:49:08 moral of the story with enough peer pressure nything is possible 02:49:22 `addquote moral of the story with enough peer pressure nything is possible 02:49:25 850) moral of the story with enough peer pressure nything is possible 02:49:53 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 02:50:27 elliott, ais523: You have to try to listen to the incidental sound instead of the primary sound, if you focus on the actual pizz then it's unrecognizable, but if you listen for the resultant reverb, the voice is more noticeable. 02:50:46 Already did that. 02:51:02 It makes good avant garde music, though. 02:51:11 You should get an orchestra to play it. 02:51:20 so, hmm, I wonder what it sounds like if you just track the fundamental 02:51:27 as in, the lowest significant frequency 02:51:38 that couldn't possibly be confused by overtones, although it probably gets confused by something else, like beats 02:52:11 likewise, simply taking the strongest frequency would probably get you one of the melody lines 02:52:44 Then BLEND THEM TOGETHER 02:54:31 ais523: Tell ion to go back to spiders. 02:54:33 this problem is hard, but it can't be as hard as some of the solutions people are indicating is implying 02:56:56 monqy: Tell ion to go back to spiders. :( 02:57:02 ion: spidres 02:57:22 You go to spiders. 02:57:26 No. 02:57:28 You go to spiders. 02:57:33 No. 02:57:35 You go to spiders. 02:57:36 I'm nowhere near spiders. You are. 02:57:37 Go to spiders. 02:57:51 elliott: when you find spiders, will you go to it? 02:57:56 B - the -2 pair of boots of Xom's Pride {rElec Str+2} (3 aum) 02:57:59 Xom's Pride indeed. 02:58:01 monqy: Yes. 02:58:05 yaey 02:58:10 yæy 02:58:35 monqy: I might train up a bit first, though. 02:58:41 ion: Will you go back to them *sometime*? 02:59:01 03:58 spider nest[2/5]: Gear checklist: most importantly: rPois and or potions of curing; clarity is a big help against tarantellas; some ranged attack is a big help against orb spiders; escape items of course; with rPois there are plenty of corpses to eat, else bring food. 02:59:04 Checklists. Exciting. 02:59:15 ion: s p i d e r s 03:00:52 I’m tempted to join Jiyva, but Trog would instakill me. :-( 03:00:54 ion: Convert to Jiyva. 03:00:58 Then go into the slime pits. 03:01:02 Then eat a spider. 03:01:10 Oh, you just said you were tempted to. 03:01:12 ion: C'mon. 03:01:13 I'll protect you. 03:01:15 ion: instant retribution is gone 03:01:19 You're XL13. Big boy now. 03:01:22 monqy: Oh? 03:01:26 ion: yeah 03:01:33 What does Trog do then? 03:01:39 waits before retributioning 03:01:40 grumbles; cries a bit 03:01:56 ion: "one way to find out" 03:02:09 ion: he still instakills you, just a bit later 03:02:15 So instead of me knowing when he’ll attack it will be a surprise? That sounds much better. 03:02:29 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:02:32 See, that sounds like fun. 03:02:33 C'mon. 03:02:35 Convert to Jiyva. 03:02:39 The jellies will protect you. 03:02:46 Would reading a spellbook cause retribution, or just lost of piety, or what? 03:02:51 04:02 trog wrath[1/4]: ABANDONMENT: 50 penance RETRIBUTION: 50% summoning abjurable, but berserking hostiles from (iron troll, deep troll, rock troll, troll, black bear, grizzly bear, stone giant, hill giant, ogre, two-headed ogre); 33% weakening effect (decay, STR loss, paralysis, slowing); 16% fire miscast. 03:02:53 See, that's not so bad. 03:03:38 I don't know, ion. You won't go into the Spider Nest, won't convert to Jiyva... 03:03:41 You're so boring. 03:03:48 I can give you your money back. 03:03:51 elliott, Xom is bored? 03:03:54 which other lair branch did you get 03:04:00 Sgeo: hi 03:04:01 Slime pits. 03:04:10 Snake 03:04:12 elliott: snake 03:04:13 Oh. 03:04:14 and Slime 03:04:19 I don't like how ion can type ^O and I can't. 03:04:35 03:04:36 elliott: Remember what i said about Crawl’s architecture sucking? 03:04:43 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:04:45 No, mine is terminal architecture. 03:04:56 Now go to slime or spider or snake. Or convert to Jiyva. 03:05:00 Anything of interest! 03:05:22 I’m still considering Jiyva. Too bad i can’t abjure. 03:05:23 since when is lair not the epitome of interesting? yaey, green rats 03:05:41 Porcupines also! 03:06:02 I'll pay you WHOLE MONEYS to Jiyva. 03:07:14 ion: wut 03:07:20 Awwwwwwwww what 03:07:25 You can't quit just before something interesting happens. 03:07:37 I’m considering sleeping. 03:07:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:07:54 @time ion 03:07:54 Local time for ion is Wed May 2 06:07:54 2012 03:07:57 Don't be ridiculous. 03:08:00 elliott: flipsidely, now you can do something interesting 03:08:09 monqy: Do I ever do anything interesting? 03:08:23 I don't know 03:08:23 just rebooted, timidity seemed to have got permanently screwed up in a way that survived me killing the process and restarting it 03:08:25 elliott is playing as elliptic 03:08:29 but rebooting the computer worked 03:08:37 ion: How did you discover my alt??? 03:08:37 thus, I suspect Pulse is at fault 03:08:45 *?!?! 03:09:08 /nick ellion 03:09:10 elliptic is one of those people, like Adeon, that it's impossible for anyone else to convincingly pretend to be 03:09:38 ais523: I'm good at convincingly pretending to people who can't be convincingly pretended to be! 03:09:41 *pretending to be 03:09:53 It’s trivial to pretend to be elliott. Behold: 03:09:54 can people convincingly pretend to be me 03:09:57 SPIDERS 03:09:59 s p i d e r s 03:10:03 SSPPIIDDEERRSS 03:10:12 ion: hi elliott 03:10:30 OK, so let me read this android-ported-to-C# story on slashdot 03:10:43 so many possible troll and fanboy angles, it'll be fun seeing which one comes up first 03:11:18 monqy: is there a max xl in crawl 03:11:21 elliott: 27 03:11:25 thought so 03:11:27 what is it with 27? 03:11:44 arc number 03:11:49 /kick ais523 03:12:19 first comment was about oracle, figures 03:13:14 monqy: shoudl i plh 03:13:15 oapl 03:13:17 plqy 03:13:18 plwy 03:13:19 ply 03:13:20 aplye 03:13:22 play 03:13:24 that was real thpo 03:13:26 s 03:13:28 typos 03:13:38 ais523: what else is there 27 of? 03:13:39 second thread was about Microsoft patents 03:13:44 dungeon levels 03:13:48 coppro: max skill levels, dungeon levels 03:13:54 and they're aiming for 27 races, backgrounds, and gods 03:14:05 (even though this is probably a bad idea!) 03:14:09 but the races and backgrounds are selected by letters! 03:14:14 they'll need to add another letter to the alphabet 03:14:27 å 03:14:32 i thought the "aiming" was a joke 03:15:05 elliott: capital A (they've gone over 26 backgrounds before now) 03:15:21 background is the yy in xxyy right 03:15:45 yes 03:16:44 monqy: im aplye 03:17:07 have you decided a god 03:17:13 what does ashe give you again 03:17:15 it'll be either 03:17:15 you can search for altar and stare at the list 03:17:18 ashe or thingy 03:17:22 elliott: ashenzari gives information 03:17:26 and likes you to wear cursed stuff 03:17:37 "Likes when you wear cursed gear" what 03:18:02 elliott: Drink the potion of mutation. 03:18:09 ashenzari's the god who nailed himself to the sky 03:18:18 ion: going to 03:18:19 Oh, crap. Your race is wrong. –ion, the racist 03:18:31 wait, there's an argument over the pronunciation of "C#", I didn't expect /that/ 03:18:32 oh wait 03:18:37 it doesn't do anything for me 03:18:39 awsum 03:18:40 I forgot there were flame wars /within/ the communities too… 03:18:47 ais523: Haha 03:19:10 monqy: ok you pick ashe or thingy 03:19:11 this may be the first submission I've read for a while with /no/ insightful unpredictable comments 03:19:18 elliott: whats thingy 03:19:23 uhhhhhh 03:19:24 elliott: and which gods have you seeen 03:19:25 makhleb 03:19:38 i already narrowed them down before?? 03:19:39 elliott: ^Faltar since you can't ^O 03:19:39 didnt i 03:19:44 # in Finnish is informally risuaita, which translates to stick fence. 03:19:48 C stick fence. 03:19:53 xom 03:20:35 thanks, monqy 03:20:38 the curse thing seems uhhh 03:20:41 elliott: you can try all of them across different games 03:20:41 What do you mean by "you have to run Windows underneath Linux anyway"? 03:20:43 Vacuuming the dungeon for Nemelex might be fun for a while. 03:20:48 ion: ha 03:20:48 monqy: i know!! 03:20:49 ion: ha 03:20:49 ion: ha 03:20:50 im deciding for 03:20:50 this game 03:21:00 I'm going to call Poe's Law on that conversation, there is no other way to explain it in 2012 03:21:01 the curse thing is weird 03:21:03 elliott: flip a coin with as many sides as you require 03:21:13 monqy: is the curse thing weird 03:21:31 ooh, and now an anti-C# thread 03:21:32 elliott: ashe was added only after I mostly stopped playing 03:21:42 hmm, dpeg wrote the post announcing them 03:21:45 BET IT SUCKS 03:21:50 dpeg is the one who kicked ais523 right 03:22:01 ye6s 03:22:07 and me 03:22:17 (fun fact: I typoed "ye6s", then corrected it to "yes", then decided to put the original typo back in) 03:22:22 (I do'nt know why, maybe I'm tired) 03:22:30 ye6s 03:22:39 monqy: which god you pick :'( 03:22:48 chei 03:22:54 no!!! 03:22:54 out of 03:22:55 those two 03:23:02 ashe and thingy 03:23:03 makhleb 03:23:26 17:41:46 < elliptic> ghoul of chei is pretty good, yes 03:23:34 oh, and more fun facts: Java is 1.5 times slower than C, and C# is 7 times faster than Java 03:23:37 see, even elliptic approves of ghoul of chei 03:23:41 * ais523 has a feeling that these facts do not connect with each other well 03:23:43 when was that 03:23:47 earlier today 03:23:54 less than 3 hours ago 03:23:54 i 03:23:55 ok 03:23:57 * ais523 suspects conveniently selected benchmarks 03:23:57 surely his opinion hasn't changed 03:24:02 Chei can be fun for a while, too. 03:24:10 elliott: there is at least a 40% chance elliptic was trolling when he said that 03:24:12 ais523: please tell ajzaff about preview... 03:24:18 and yes, I suspected 03:24:29 monqy: come onnnn ashe or makh 03:24:32 either 03:24:36 no 03:24:37 which :( 03:24:38 don't make me choose!!!! 03:24:50 make someone else choose 03:24:54 no 03:24:55 you 03:25:02 can i phone a friend 03:25:08 yes 03:25:26 ashenzari 03:25:32 monqy: the friend can't be an RNG though 03:25:35 it has to be human 03:25:38 or at least sentient 03:25:54 elliott: OK I told him 03:26:01 NASA really knows graphic design. Those images are so pretty. http://colorusage.arc.nasa.gov/bkg_1.php 03:26:06 elliott: ashenzari 03:26:11 you can phone me, and I'll say ash 03:26:15 elliott: ashenzari 03:26:25 monqy: ok fine butthat was totally cheating 03:26:27 ...butt hat 03:26:42 i regret this already 03:26:43 excellent 03:26:56 I almost asked "ashenzari or makhleb for ghmo of chei" then corrected it then almost uncorrected it 03:27:04 :D 03:27:21 appending "of chei" to anything makes it better 03:27:27 so i don't sacrifice corpses for ashey? 03:27:31 indeed 03:27:47 20:26:42 < elliott> i regret this already 03:27:50 i wonder if leather armour of magic resistance is better than a +0 robe 03:27:52 next game go chei to cleanse your soul 03:28:23 (by "i wonder if" i mean "hey monqy, is") 03:28:29 oh 03:28:29 uh 03:28:33 dunno ! 03:28:44 hey ais523, is 03:28:44 are you going armoures or what 03:28:44 elliott: I read that as "hey, monqy is" 03:28:47 it makes the sentence better 03:28:56 monqy: im not sure "maybe light armoure?" 03:28:56 not the ping on me, the previous of your lines 03:28:59 but 03:29:05 i don't know what the light armour progression is 03:29:10 -!- Reinu has joined. 03:29:33 "robe -> spells -> thanks for going light armoures" 03:29:35 `welcome Reinu 03:29:39 Reinu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 03:29:42 monqy: not spells!! im not doing spells 03:29:45 isn't there like 03:29:47 why not heavy it up!!! 03:29:50 dragon plate things or something 03:29:56 oh, medium armoures 03:29:56 ok fine i'll heavy it up i hate this plate armour here but 03:30:05 Reinu: also this channel isn't actually about crawl I just happen to be playing crawl sorry 03:30:12 uhh by "i hate" i mean "i have" 03:30:21 elliott: why not move the conversation to #nethack-offtopic? 03:30:29 noooo 03:30:32 or, hmm, the -offtopic channel for some arbitrary large channel 03:30:40 why not move it to #ubuntu? 03:30:49 why not move it to ##crawl-dev 03:30:49 they won't notice it 03:30:50 The -offtopic channel of #haskell-blah for instance. 03:31:01 #haskell-blah-blah 03:31:16 hello guys 03:31:17 hi, sose 03:31:18 No, #haskell 03:31:22 by sose I mean Reinu 03:31:27 hi reinu 03:31:31 heinu 03:31:37 the offtopic channel of #haskell is #esoteric 03:31:48 kmc: that's surprisingly accurate sometimes 03:31:50 hi Reinu btw 03:32:04 * ais523 checks if #esoteric-offtopic still exists 03:32:14 cool my nickname got a nickname 03:32:22 apparently not 03:32:23 monqy: does menkaure go upstairs? 03:32:27 yes 03:32:36 monqy: i mean, if it's not next to me 03:32:39 i guess probably not 03:33:00 hmm, this channel is currently silly and offtopic because the people in it are tired, rather than silly and offtopic because it's usually like that 03:33:25 I'm not tired 03:33:28 is monqy tired? 03:33:29 which channel is this again 03:33:33 what's tired? not me 03:33:35 this channel is always silly and offtopic 03:33:45 _Ashenzari no longer supports your skills. 03:33:46 oops 03:33:54 you gain piety for exploreing 03:34:02 that's a good thing actually 03:34:09 wow menkaure was a pushover 03:34:20 welcome to ghmo "have a nice day" 03:34:26 elliott: menkaure is like sigmund, a pushover except when he kills you at random 03:35:22 Reinu: I'm normally happy to carry on an ontopic conversation if someone else starts it, though, as long as I can vaguely understand what it's about 03:35:46 ais523 is the official defender of topicality 03:36:08 sort of like being the official wedding priest at a satanist orgy 03:36:08 it's a losing battle 03:36:10 what is the oficial topic of this channel? 03:36:14 esoteric programming languages 03:36:17 04:29 Reinu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 03:36:36 ooh tanks 03:36:41 thanks* 03:36:45 we finally discovered what the appropriate channel for the other sort of esotericisim was quite recently, after years of looking 03:36:54 (so that we could send people who were in the wrong place there) 03:37:06 hahaha it seems i come in a good time 03:37:12 `? esoteric 03:37:15 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 03:37:31 got it 03:37:59 hmm, clearly we need an esoterica-based esolang 03:38:07 just to really confuse people as to which channel is which 03:38:48 weren't you looking the other channel to guide people there why would you like to confuse them now? 03:39:11 we didn't look for it, someone else stumbled across it 03:39:23 I think you help the newbies and confuse the regulars 03:39:26 or something 03:39:31 I'm a regular and I'm confused, that's a start 03:40:30 ais523: meanwhile, john carmack answers a Stack Exchange question about a tweet he made 03:40:38 awesome 03:40:42 was it a serious answer or a troll answer? 03:40:45 serious 03:40:46 it'd be awesome either way 03:40:48 http://superuser.com/questions/419070/transatlantic-ping-faster-than-sending-a-pixel-to-the-screen 03:43:18 ooh, it's /both/ 03:44:18 serious answer for their audience, and trolling Sony a little 03:45:43 monqy: 18 str for plate armour right 03:46:51 yes 03:48:35 heh, I don't autopickup remove curse any more 03:48:42 oh, wait 03:49:35 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:49:54 ooh 03:49:55 thanks ashe 03:49:56 i think 03:49:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:50:50 yay, rpois 03:51:26 monqy: oh yeah, does ashe give me any abilities? 03:51:48 scrying, reskilling 03:52:18 OK, so nothing combat-wise 03:52:34 yaey, meph 03:52:35 hey, I could learn blink *and* mephitic cloud! 03:52:45 blink isn't so bad 03:53:31 controlled blink, however 03:53:36 oh, isn't that what blink is? 03:53:40 no 03:53:42 lame 03:53:58 blink is more like lugonu's bend space 03:54:11 but without hp loss etc etc 03:54:13 finally, a chei altar! 03:54:27 it's a good thing i was 03:54:30 ... 03:54:31 patient 03:54:35 ha 03:54:36 blink has a random target 03:54:40 which means it only saves you some of the time 03:54:43 i have to be not here for a bit but i'll be back sometime 03:54:47 ais523: you ruined monqy's haing!!! 03:54:48 @time monqy 03:54:49 Local time for monqy is Tue May 1 20:54:48 2012 03:54:54 happy 20:54:48 03:55:00 happy 03:55:02 elliott: so long as I don't ruin his hiing 03:55:10 ais523: shachaf did that 03:55:22 hmm, ogres annoy me 03:55:24 I want more HP 03:55:33 the fighting skill *does* give you HP, right? 03:56:09 elliott: it used to; then they either changed it so that it was the only thing that mattered or so that it didn't matter, I can't remember which 03:56:17 monqy: help 03:56:24 there was a huge debate about fighting being so much better than all the other skills 03:56:38 and that reskilling was broken as a result because people would just dump everything into fighting 03:56:44 but I can't remember how it was resolved 03:57:36 woo, I have +2 plate armour 04:00:28 monqy: gastronok is scary right 04:00:29 05:00 guru wisdom[3/24]: gastronok is like a titan but with less speed and lightning and more spammals 04:00:31 thanks, monqy 04:00:34 elliott, monqy update bluh bluh 04:01:09 ais523: I'm XL 9 and have chain mail, helmet, pair of boots, cloak, and unarmed combat at level 11.3 04:01:13 should I run away from gastronok? 04:01:17 there's a convenient upstairs 04:01:35 yes, you should 04:01:43 if you can't kill him at range, and you probably can't 04:01:47 should I bother closing the door on the way? 04:01:50 i hear he can open them 04:02:02 it won't waste any time if you do 04:02:06 * ion opens eliot’s Crawl and sees Gastronok. Nice. 04:02:08 you could probably even door-kite him, but that's ridiculous 04:02:18 ion: "elliott" isn't spelt like that 04:02:23 what's door-kiting 04:02:34 eliot: How are you spelt? 04:02:36 elliott: when you repeatedly close a door as a monster repeatedly tries to open it 04:02:53 normally the monster wins due to speed randomization, but gastronok is pretty slow 04:02:56 I'm just a bit worried that I'll run into him again when exploring the level 04:02:56 I don’t think that technique is reliable anymore since there’s some randomness in the movement times of characters. 04:03:02 and it's far down enough taht I'd rather not just skip the level entirely 04:03:04 hmm, now I have an urge to call an esolang "Elliot" 04:03:05 *that 04:03:25 gastronok's slow, you can just run away whenever he shows up 04:03:39 but he casts spells! 04:03:46 OK, should I run away to the upstairs or just to another part of the level? 04:04:23 I'd just go to another part of the level, but then I'm not very good at Crawl 04:04:31 what would ion do? he's probably worse 04:04:31 and don't normally run as far as I should 04:04:52 nooo 04:04:54 never mind, I died to a centaur 04:05:02 who gives those bastards that kind of gera? 04:05:04 *gear 04:05:17 they need nerfing 04:06:15 centaurs are a common monster to complain about 04:06:41 The next time don’t stay in the range where they can shoot stuff at you. If you can’t get outside that range quickly, melee them. 04:06:44 the usual solution is to use spells (specifically, rmsl and later dmsl) in order to take the edge off centaur-type monsters, to the extent that they are arguably balanced against a player's missile repulsion 04:06:50 and if you don't have the appropriate spells, sucks to be you 04:06:54 ion: I was trying to get out of the way; and then trying to melee it 04:07:10 it's not NetHack, you can't dodge projectiles by avoiding the compass directions 04:07:28 ais523: I think they should just make them start appearing later, and keep the difficulty the same 04:07:36 that way you'd have enough HP to offset their power 04:07:44 and I would die less 04:07:45 which is good 04:07:46 hahahaha 04:07:49 HP doesn't work like that in Crawl 04:07:58 :( 04:08:04 in that monsters scale much faster than it does 04:08:39 ion: Should I aplye again? 04:12:59 -!- shubshub has joined. 04:13:11 !bf_txtgen hi 04:13:16 ​41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [311] 04:13:31 !userinterps 04:13:31 ​Installed user interpreters: about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffed 04:13:47 who deleted my interpreter! 04:14:05 !show ruby_ 04:14:05 sh ruby 04:14:59 !ruby_ print "hi" 04:14:59 ​/tmp/input.30313: line 1: ruby: command not found 04:18:33 elliott: yes 04:19:11 ion: Aplyeing. 04:19:38 wahthicng 04:20:29 Oops. 04:20:31 Do it!@ 04:20:42 :-( 04:20:49 Boots suck. 04:20:59 I can't fathom why. 04:24:14 Is +2 ring mail better than +0 scale mail? 04:24:22 Scale mail being one better than ring mail in general. 04:24:24 I can never tell. 04:24:34 Look at your AC and EV 04:24:42 How do I do that again :( 04:24:57 (AC is more important for a fighter.) 04:25:16 You see them in the default display. 04:25:22 Oh, right. 04:25:29 8/8 vs. 7/7. Okay. 04:25:33 Lower EV is best, right? 04:25:40 Higher both is best. 04:25:43 Oh. 04:25:43 Neat. 04:25:54 But prefer AC as a fighter. 04:26:25 (Of course there are other things that matter, too. Wear a plate mail with no armor skill and fighting will be difficult.) 04:27:43 Neat! 04:28:13 -!- Reinu has quit. 04:28:53 Fun. 04:29:17 05:29 grey rat[1/1]: A much more formidable foe than the plain rats, grey rats can kill in the midgame. If they get lucky. 04:29:22 I can't tell how serious this entry is. 04:29:24 Should I run away? 04:29:34 Guess I'll ask whoever it is that does monster info. 04:31:37 (That's ion.) 04:32:20 oh no did you died 04:32:41 No. 04:32:43 But I grey rat. 04:33:22 IS GREY RAT SCARY ICANT TELLE monqy 04:33:25 last game, I mean 04:33:27 Grey rats aren’t that bad IIRC. 04:33:30 the one where you died 04:33:35 Yes, I died when I died. 04:33:36 Of centaur. 04:33:38 because I wasn't around to save you, presumably 04:33:44 Highlight: 04:33:49 05:00 monqy: gastronok is scary right 04:33:49 05:00 05:00 guru wisdom[3/24]: gastronok is like a titan but with less speed and lightning and more spammals 04:33:49 05:00 thanks, monqy 04:33:51 Look at it with x. It seems to say how bad the monster might be nowadays. 04:33:59 No, I died even though you were around to save me, inside Henzell. :( 04:34:06 monqy: IS GREY RAT SCARY 04:34:09 nO 04:34:15 grey rat is like rat 04:34:16 but grey 04:34:23 WHY DID HENZELL LIE TO ME 04:34:27 what did henzell say 04:34:31 You died because you ran back and forth and back and forth within the c’s shooting range. :-P 04:34:32 05:29 05:29 grey rat[1/1]: A much more formidable foe than the plain rats, grey rats can kill in the midgame. If they get lucky. 04:34:42 ion: IT WAS A DANCE OF DEATH 04:34:54 elliott: henzell isn't always reliable, see {butterfly} 04:34:58 monqy: You should fix that learndb entry. :( 04:35:05 monqy: That one's obviously joking. 04:35:09 This one is less obviously so. :( 04:35:43 I need a good quote overhyping grey rats before I edit {grey rat} 04:36:09 OMG MY GREY RAT JUST KILLED EVERY MONSTER IN THE GAME AND THEN PERSONALLY STOLE THE ORB OF ZOT AND WON INSTEAD OF ME AND NOW I'M ITS PET INSTEAD 04:36:14 yuroerlwer cleome 04:36:25 also i'm wearing a helmet of clever 04:36:38 elliott: consider learndb "improved" 04:36:53 monqy: thanks 04:37:03 you forgot my quote though (please don't add my quote) 04:37:13 -!- cheater has joined. 04:37:27 b - a +2 plate armour of magic resistance 1629 gold 04:37:28 mmmmmmm 04:37:32 maybe i should rob a bank and then buy that 04:37:37 plate of rC is better 04:37:44 why is crawl's shop system boring you can't even steal 04:37:53 MR is good too 04:38:00 I guess MR is better if you already have enough rC 04:38:02 i'll just 04:38:05 add them both to my shopping list 04:38:06 for you rF would be best since you're ghoule 04:38:10 no don't get them boooth 04:38:14 im not going to 04:38:15 shopping list 04:38:16 oh ok 04:38:17 i cant remotely afford them 04:38:23 they cost approximately their full price more than i can afford 04:38:26 but you know 04:38:29 if i ever end up rich 04:38:43 remind me to remove those if i find plate armour i like 04:38:50 hi, neil 04:39:03 that's TeFe right 04:39:05 don'tw ant to look stupid 04:39:07 *don't want 04:39:22 hmm, i don't actually know how to get dump with sequelle 04:39:29 tefe yes 04:39:41 use !log 04:39:47 !log is short hand for !lg with the -log argument 04:40:55 it 04:41:01 looked harmless in the log 04:41:41 sure could use a scroll of make everything ok righ tnow 04:41:42 *right now 04:41:53 did you die 04:41:53 or was it a potion 04:42:12 astonishingly, 04:42:12 no 04:42:24 fuuuck orcs 04:42:32 uhhh 04:42:37 maybe i'm tough enough to just rush it with this hp 04:43:19 help monqy 04:43:28 who deleted my interpeeter? 04:43:35 uhh 04:43:40 it has ranged 04:43:42 wepon 04:43:44 if you're rushing it hit . instead of j 04:43:46 oh rang 04:43:52 uhhhh 04:43:52 h 04:43:56 do you have potiones 04:44:04 oh 04:44:04 "yes" 04:44:07 uhe 04:44:13 wande? 04:44:28 "noe" 04:44:32 "preemptive" 04:44:39 oh 04:44:42 uhh 04:44:47 what do you have 04:45:11 meat 04:45:19 probably a bad idea 04:45:20 oh poisoned darts 04:45:26 instead of rushing it i could 04:45:26 could throw a dart 04:45:28 poison dart it 04:45:33 until it arrives and then 04:45:34 melee it 04:45:35 hopefully 04:45:37 yeah sure 04:45:44 neate 04:45:48 thankse monqy 04:45:53 it can only have so many hand axes, and orcs are weak 04:47:09 is dwarf fortress on android? 04:47:24 sigh 04:47:31 ... 04:47:39 what did you do 04:47:41 or uh 04:47:43 i just don't like orc parties 04:47:43 what happened to you 04:47:44 oh 04:47:51 hi, duvessa and dowan 04:48:26 :( 04:48:45 how fast are they again 04:49:25 normal, until dowan hastes duvessa or duvessa berks because you killed dowan, or dowan hastes because you killed duvessa 04:49:38 wow uh 04:49:41 i don't know why i said fast 04:49:42 oh for 04:49:44 running away purposes 04:49:47 second question 04:49:48 should i run away 04:49:51 maybe 04:49:58 thanks 04:50:09 I never had a problem with them, but maybe that's just me 04:50:13 oh i have ?tele 04:50:20 maybe i'll try and kill them and 04:50:22 tele quickly 04:50:24 if you kill dowan first and flee from the berk it will time out and duvessa wont berk again 04:50:34 if you kill duvessa first, dowan will be upgraded forever 04:50:40 monqy: fleeing berk sounds kinda hard 04:50:42 ais523: i'm only xl6 though 04:50:50 admittedly my uc is 8.5 04:50:55 elliott: tele or carefully using stairs or meph or confuse etcetc 04:51:06 monqy: well tele works but 04:51:09 won't a few turns of berk kill me 04:51:11 elliott: by carefully I mean "take the stairs before duvessa gets next to you" 04:51:17 not really 04:51:19 well 04:51:23 maybe if you're real squishy 04:51:33 oh there's a downstairs right there 04:51:37 too bad it'll be uh 04:51:42 inaccessible once i get fighting 04:51:54 uurgh 04:51:58 i was hoping dowan would come first 04:51:59 usually they aren't that hard 04:52:08 ill 04:52:11 lure dowan up the stairs 04:52:12 or does that not work 04:52:20 it only works if you lure them both or one of thems dead 04:52:28 well 04:52:37 one fun thing to do is enslave one of them and get them to kill the other 04:52:45 lovely 04:52:49 i don't want them both to be able to fire at me right 04:52:50 so 04:52:53 I'v heard stories of polymorphing them into slime creatures and getting them to merge 04:52:58 i don't really see how i could get to fighting dowan 04:53:01 unless i 04:53:08 lured them both up the stairs and found a chokepoint and got lucky but 04:53:21 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:53:35 you don't have to kill dowan first 04:54:12 oh 04:54:13 uhhh 04:54:17 they're squishier than i expected 04:54:18 which getting them both almost dead then killing them both quicky is also a good plane 04:54:21 yes 04:54:21 (i died to them once) 04:54:24 oh 04:54:31 when i encountered them like 04:54:32 super early 04:54:44 on muck or what 04:54:52 might well have been, actually 04:55:00 yum, elfe 04:55:48 mmh 04:55:53 i guess this might be ok if i train armour 04:56:04 is EV 5 terrible 04:56:14 train armour is a good idea 04:56:26 swap back for now and keep training armour? 04:56:28 you don't want to use heavy armour if you don't train armour or it will just be awful 04:56:38 and then switch back when 04:56:40 i'm armour 04:59:29 yaey 05:00:11 aww, no meph 05:00:21 ooh ooh oooooh 05:00:35 armour or jewellery maybe??? 05:00:38 ais523: which should i acquire 05:01:23 jewellery used to be the only decent acquirement 05:01:29 perhaps armor acquirement has been fixed soon 05:01:35 *since 05:01:36 monqy: has armour acquirement been fixed soon 05:01:37 ais523: *armour 05:01:46 what? 05:01:47 oh right, Crawl has armour, NetHack has armor 05:01:54 monqy: acquirement 05:01:56 armour or jewellery 05:01:58 what was broken about it 05:02:01 oh 05:03:15 ais523: what was borkne ambout it :( 05:03:18 *broken about 05:03:37 you can ask ##crawl about acq; im not really aware of its current state 05:03:46 other than misc is laughable and that's why you should acquire misc 05:03:56 elliott: what you ended up acquiring sucked 05:04:05 ais523: that always happens 05:04:08 06:03 acquirement[2/3]: Q: What should I acquire? A: Wand. Or armour, or gold. Or, in rare cases, staff or jewellery. Or, in really rare cases, like you decided to do abyss with no food, food. 05:04:13 ais523: it's one of acquirement's design goals 05:04:22 :D 05:04:26 oh man 05:04:27 gloves 05:04:31 yaey 05:04:32 elliott: I guess armour, then, because presumably it's been buffed if it's mentioned as a good potion 05:04:35 so glad i took 10 minutes to make that decision 05:04:40 elliott: are they /good/ cloves/ 05:04:51 -2 05:04:54 :D 05:04:56 and on a ghoul no less 05:05:11 looks like you just got crawl dev'd 05:05:15 :'( 05:05:17 :') 05:05:20 :') 05:06:00 monqy: oh yeah what level should i train armour to before spliting 05:06:01 *splinting 05:06:10 nooo 05:06:11 electric eel 05:06:15 I'd personally just put the splint on and train armour 05:06:22 unless it lowers my ac or something 05:06:25 "lazey" 05:06:37 EV 9 to EV 6 is not very nice :( or is it 05:06:46 you also got more ac!! 05:06:52 it's true 05:06:53 anyway 05:06:54 electric eel 05:06:56 time to set up an exclusion zone 05:07:07 what's the key again 05:07:09 e 05:07:44 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 05:08:00 thanks, autoexplore 05:08:27 jellyfish the famous pushover 05:08:29 what is an orc wizard doing in water 05:08:31 monqy: yeah but 05:08:33 electric eel in same pool 05:08:35 not being in water 05:09:02 what, i thought i had hw id'd 05:09:19 is it not in \ 05:09:25 oh it is 05:09:26 i just 05:09:27 didn't have any 05:09:38 hi, centaur 05:10:06 uhhh 05:10:08 what is that centaur doing 05:10:11 is it trapped? 05:10:34 centaurs can't over water 05:10:37 by which i mean 05:10:39 walk on water 05:10:45 unless they have a +Lev weapon or something 05:10:51 they can still shoot over water just fine 05:11:06 you could confuse it 05:11:07 so it'd drown 05:11:19 goode idea 05:11:30 don't die in the process 05:11:36 wow i lost a lot of hp 05:11:46 wtf 05:11:47 fish hurt 05:12:00 no kidding 05:12:01 what's with that 05:12:19 how do i remove exclusion 05:13:26 e 05:13:37 rather, e will reduce its size, and then e again will remove it 05:13:41 and then e again will place it 05:14:06 help 05:14:22 it's pink if the exclusiones there 05:14:28 just hit pinks until they stop being pikn 05:14:37 or use ^E to clear exclusions 05:15:03 thanks 05:15:14 are jellyfish pushovers or 05:15:16 were you kiddinge me 05:15:24 jellyfish are indeed pushovers 05:16:15 fuck 05:16:16 electric 05:16:16 eels 05:16:27 maybe i should just skip this level 05:16:32 except 05:16:35 i think the temple is on this level 05:16:54 because 05:16:58 how much have you explored 05:16:59 there's a few altars 05:17:16 i think the stuff is 05:17:21 hereabouts 05:17:31 might be a secret door in that thing at the top 05:17:45 to the up and right of your cursore 05:18:09 thanks 05:18:23 im fuckt 05:18:37 only if ijyb has a gnasty wand 05:18:46 34 hp 05:18:49 so? 05:18:52 ok 05:18:56 huh 05:19:07 i misjudge how pushover things are because 05:19:11 i fight them at different levels each time 05:20:34 fml 05:20:41 oh my god 05:20:42 fuck this level 05:21:02 what's oka like again 05:21:07 ais523 was all bad for ghoul 05:21:09 but monqy was all wronge 05:21:44 personally oka doesn't excite me but 05:21:49 maybe oka would excite you 05:22:00 i remember a 05:22:03 joke about renaming oka to default 05:22:10 "jokes affect my opinion of crawle things" 05:22:17 god i hate ogres 05:22:27 they aren't so bad at this point are they 05:22:32 yeah but 05:22:45 have you found chei yet 05:22:46 they're still the only common thing that can put a huge splodge of red on my hp bar in a turn or two 05:22:56 wtf 05:22:57 my EV's gone down 05:22:58 i think 05:23:07 no? it was at 6 las ti hcecked 05:23:10 oh 05:23:10 ok then 05:24:15 TSOOOOOO 05:24:25 sticks to snakes 05:24:28 i 05:25:47 i like how my running away just 05:25:52 pummelled me with arrows 05:26:35 nO 05:26:37 FUCK YOU CRAWL 05:27:04 eeeh 05:27:08 monqy: can i survive a run to the > 05:27:44 can't you go around? 05:27:46 what's your xmap 05:27:50 also is that temple 05:28:36 also to get to the > you'd have to go through some plants 05:28:40 which takes time 05:28:43 so uh 05:28:47 just go to temple 05:29:22 didn't notice temple oops 05:29:37 chei! 05:29:41 :( 05:31:08 xome 05:31:15 makh or ashe 05:31:35 if you're alternating: makh 05:31:39 if you're asheing: ashe 05:31:44 well 05:31:48 i liked how i didn't have to do anything for ashe 05:31:51 but 05:31:57 maybe makh's fighting abilities matter to me more than see invis? 05:32:12 what auto-iding can ashey do for me 05:32:18 idk stuff 05:33:01 what 05:33:04 will it id scrolls for me 05:33:47 i dont know ashe stuff 05:33:56 ask ##crawl 05:34:32 okey 05:35:31 monqy: does equipment include scrolls and potions 05:35:38 idk 05:35:43 :( 05:37:03 The runed arrow hits you! You blink. 05:37:05 uhhhhhhh 05:37:11 dispersal 05:37:23 my hp is 05:37:24 scary 05:38:21 maybe i should downstairs 05:38:24 perhaps 05:38:49 fuck 05:38:51 help :( 05:38:52 did you really 05:38:53 throw a dart 05:38:55 yes im 05:38:57 kind of dumb 05:38:57 read fog 05:39:06 ugh fine read fear 05:39:06 next option 05:39:12 ok uhhh 05:39:14 then get to the door 05:39:16 can i run up to it and melee it now 05:39:16 and close it 05:39:16 oh 05:39:28 will it fire arrows if it's fleeing 05:39:32 no 05:39:36 once it stops fleeing though yes 05:39:43 oops 05:39:48 will it stop fleeing if i run up to it :( 05:40:00 it's fast so you won't be able to close distance like that until it stops fleeing anyway 05:40:07 ha 05:40:08 ha 05:40:08 ha 05:40:09 if i hadn't 05:40:13 read fear again 05:40:13 accidentally prayed 05:40:21 woops 05:40:22 heal 05:40:32 up 05:40:38 as in 05:40:40 k 05:40:40 go ^? 05:40:47 done 05:40:51 k 05:40:56 wow 05:40:57 that wa 05:40:57 s 05:40:57 close 05:40:58 convenient 05:41:06 have chunks? 05:41:12 run to upstairs i guess? 05:41:13 ok uhhh 05:41:22 running might be a ba didea 05:41:25 since the centaur will find you 05:41:51 since it's fast 05:41:55 When he opens the door, maybe you can melee him. 05:42:02 36 hp 05:42:05 otoh i do have curing 05:42:08 one 05:42:08 curing 05:42:10 Ok :-\ 05:42:15 i do have might i guess 05:42:20 good 05:42:24 quafe agility too 05:42:28 for the dodg 05:42:29 curing then agility? 05:42:35 sure 05:42:45 and might? 05:43:02 If i had to choose between dying to a shooting c and dying while meleeing a c, i’d try my luck with the latter one. 05:43:07 DRINK ALL THE POTIONS 05:43:08 might isn't as important since by the time it matters you're already distyanceclosed 05:43:19 yeah but 05:43:22 46 hp so 05:43:30 centaurs can be pretty bad even in melee sometimes??? 05:43:32 this one seems to be 05:43:32 tough 05:43:36 if it has that kind of weponry 05:43:38 ok whatever if you aren't confident in your centaurkilling ability by now uquaff it 05:44:10 oh fine 05:44:18 ok i guess it wasn't necessary 05:44:26 im picking up these arrows so that nobody else does 05:45:00 oh man what a ringe 05:45:09 hey royale jele 05:45:22 Almost nothing is cursed. :-( 05:45:28 yeah i 05:45:29 just became an ashey 05:45:42 oops 05:47:32 When @.x where x is some melee monster, don’t move toward him, press dot and let him move one step toward you. You’ll get the first punch. 05:47:56 don't do that if x has a polearms 05:48:08 or a whipe of reaching 05:48:09 gourmande 05:48:14 ion: yeah sometimes i just 05:48:16 rush things though 05:48:18 because i hate them 05:48:21 gourmande on ghouls makes you pretend all chunks are rotten 05:48:28 You feel a craving for the dungeon's cuisine. 05:48:28 yume 05:48:48 That would be a good name for a restaurant. 05:48:57 in a bdsm dungeon 05:49:02 or just 05:49:04 a regular dungeon i guess 05:49:06 "either workse" 05:49:14 yay, trolles 05:49:25 mcdonalds ball and slide dungeon 05:49:31 yes 05:49:33 uhhh 05:49:34 why are trolls yellow 05:49:37 i thought they're scarey 05:49:46 you mean the mlist? 05:49:53 don't trust the mlist colours 05:49:57 it was a horrible addition 05:50:11 it's so misleading 05:50:31 uugh 05:50:34 maybe i'll just 05:50:34 confuse it 05:50:38 then beat the crap out of it 05:50:41 sure 05:50:47 monqy: Huh. I haven’t had any problems with the colors. I like them. 05:51:19 ion: most of the time it works, but in those cases you already know the difficulties of stuff at least as precisely as the mlist colours them 05:51:26 wow what is it with the wandes on this floor 05:51:31 ion: but there are cases where it's way off 05:51:36 ion: like eyeballs and boggarts 05:51:46 ion: so you can't trust it if you don't know the difficulty of something already 05:51:49 ion: so it's useless 05:52:14 are bo of beasts good 05:52:16 *box 05:52:17 no 05:52:25 06:52 box of beasts[1/1]: Your own mobile petting zoo! Evoke to release a beast. If the evocation was unsuccessful, there is a 1 in 6 chance that the box will turn into a simple empty ebony casket. Succeeds (60 + evo)/100. Hostile: 1/(evo+5). Bat, hound, jackal, rat, ice beast, snake, yak, butterfly, water moccasin, crocodile, or hell hound (if not worshipping a good god). 05:52:28 that sounds like fune thoughe!!! 05:52:32 sure use it 05:52:50 ok i wont because you said no 05:52:54 no it's fine 05:52:55 doooo it 05:52:57 decide for yourself 05:52:59 do it do it 05:53:01 i 05:53:03 feel like i am being 05:53:04 using misc items is cool 05:53:08 "trolle'd" 05:53:10 no 05:53:11 monqy: that sounds like 05:53:12 sarceasme 05:53:21 you asked if it's good; the answer is no. should you use it? yes. 05:53:23 særcæsme 05:53:34 elliott: Did what? 05:53:41 well 05:53:42 i have it now 05:53:44 maybe i'll use it on zot:5 05:53:48 Ruined monqy's hiing? :-( 05:53:57 monqy: "is it true" 05:53:58 excuse me monqy laugh at the implication there please 05:54:11 oh, that one? 05:54:12 ha 05:54:12 ha 05:54:12 ha 05:54:13 ha 05:54:15 ha 05:54:18 shachaf: hey 05:54:20 shachaf: what? 05:54:32 what 05:54:38 oh 05:54:39 hiing 05:54:41 amonqy: "did shachaf ruine your hiing" 05:54:49 elliott: Next time try a deep elf summoner. They’re fun in the beginning. 05:54:52 quasit more like quashit 05:54:56 just saying 05:55:00 ion: I've been playing DESu! 05:55:07 _p - a scroll labeled ZEODGH YTODONIT {tried} 05:55:13 shachaf: I thought you didn't play crawl 05:55:15 i was gonna make a pun here but 05:55:19 it didn't work 05:55:22 monqy: I play it on 05:55:23 localhost 05:55:25 no 05:55:26 bad 05:55:27 stop 05:55:28 dont 05:55:36 Crawl version 0.10.2 05:55:37 on 05:55:37 are you going to tell me to hack and back them 05:55:38 localhost 05:55:38 because 05:55:40 `quote hack and back 05:55:42 839) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 05:56:06 elliott: hack and back what 05:56:12 well 05:56:15 what were you going to suggest 05:56:21 w/r/t what? 05:56:32 Did you open the box of breasts yet? 05:56:52 monqy: i thought you were upset about me whacking the goliath bettle 05:57:05 I wasn't watching 05:57:09 did you hack and back it :( 05:57:11 no 05:57:13 i just whacked it 05:57:15 and then you went no stop dont 05:57:17 whacking is fine 05:57:21 no that was 05:57:23 to shachef 05:57:27 whacking is fine –monqy, 2012 05:57:30 for... playing on localhost? 05:57:34 "shachef, paraphrased" 05:57:52 ha 05:57:54 that was nice 05:57:58 monqy: draw a self protrait of me :'( 05:58:01 `quote i just whacked it whacking is fine 05:58:04 No output. 05:58:12 it's `addquote 05:58:14 whatsthecommand 05:58:26 `addquote i just whacked it whacking is fine 05:58:30 851) i just whacked it whacking is fine 05:58:42 is that two spaces between the messages? 05:58:46 yes 05:58:47 good 05:59:00 two spaces = the greatest evile 05:59:08 greateste 05:59:08 neet, wand of digeing 05:59:23 shachaf: what do you look like, this is necessary for any good self portrait 05:59:48 does shachaf know what self means 06:00:05 golly 06:00:06 a spere trap 06:00:11 elliott: yes 06:00:11 gosh 06:00:18 guess ill 06:00:19 elliott: it meanse a portrait monqy draws of me 06:00:19 shake it 06:00:34 elliott: When you drew "sahchef, paraphrased" that was also a self portrait. 06:00:38 remembere? 06:00:41 kobold of ely 06:00:53 man 06:00:57 where is all the shit in this dunjon 06:00:57 ^O 06:01:23 ion: can't 06:01:28 ಠ_ಠ 06:01:31 help 06:01:39 help 06:02:36 Zombies art slowe. Hydras, not so slowe. 06:02:42 help 06:02:46 monqy: help 06:02:51 What do you have? 06:02:56 help 06:03:04 are you in a pickle 06:03:08 hydra here 06:03:11 rock troll zombie down there 06:03:59 do you want to see 06:04:00 itemse 06:04:32 help :( 06:05:08 You can escape stuff by blinking. And you can try to confuse the hydra and blast it with fire for instance. 06:05:53 monqy: should i melee hydra 06:06:01 monqy: draw a self protaraite of me ;'( 06:06:08 shachaf: ok 06:06:11 elliott: proably not 06:06:13 yay 06:06:19 monqy: i have glove 06:06:24 elliott: what's on your screne 06:06:25 oh 06:06:26 -2 globe 06:06:28 glove 06:06:31 i havent seeeen 06:06:44 i wouldnt want to mele it 06:06:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:06:52 if you do mele, definitely use glov 06:06:58 if i dont melee then?? :( 06:07:01 confuse?? fire?? 06:07:02 and if you do mele, soften it up from afar with wands, rather than charging it 06:07:06 if you dont melee, run away 06:07:08 WELCOME TO MELEE ISLAND 06:07:08 it's still wandering 06:07:11 yes but 06:07:12 you can skip the leve 06:07:13 l 06:07:14 if i run downstairs then 06:07:17 oh 06:07:17 elliott: does crawle have melee island 06:07:20 where's that zombie 06:07:29 there it is 06:07:31 it 06:07:33 hits pretty hard 06:07:39 elliott: What’s wrong with your ^O? 06:07:46 ion: entering it does nothing 06:08:10 Do other ctrl commands work? 06:08:14 yes 06:08:17 ^O has some special terminal meaning 06:08:42 Try telnetting to the server instead of sshing for shits and giggles. :-) 06:08:48 I do telnet to the server. 06:08:55 Try sshing to the server instead of telnetting for shits and giggles. :-) 06:08:56 Does CDO even offer ssh? 06:09:12 I want to be able to mosh to the server. :( 06:09:27 it offers ssh yes 06:09:32 "Yes, telnet on Mac OS X is blocking ^O" -- sigh. 06:09:41 *o does it. 06:09:43 tel net to stop it 06:09:50 net: stop blocking ^O 06:10:22 uhhh 06:10:27 should i recharge confusion or digging hmmm 06:10:39 They have the most insane ssh setuppe. Get the private key from and log in using ssh -o IdentityFile=cao_key crawl@crawl.develz.org 06:10:46 That's CAO. 06:10:52 yes 06:10:58 They use the CAO key for CDO? 06:11:03 yes 06:11:08 O kay. 06:12:05 07:11 scroll of amnesia[1/1]: Added in 0.8 along with the removal of the selective amnesia spell. Same rarity as enchant armour so expect around a dozen at zot. 06:12:08 But what does it *do*? 06:13:09 Lets you forget a spell. 06:13:17 Come on! 06:13:18 .ssh/config: http://hpaste.org/67953 06:13:20 Curse weapon is useless for me. :( 06:13:40 07:13 pressure plate[1/1]: A mystery trap whose function is defined in lua 06:13:41 help 06:13:50 should i steppe on it 06:14:00 Ooh, i’ve never seen one. 06:14:34 monqy: helpe 06:15:54 http://pastebin.com/iRne5Swh 06:16:00 I made a Underload -> Scala compiler for some reason... 06:16:00 elliott: what hapn 06:16:05 monqy: helpe eliote 06:16:06 monqy: pressure plate trape 06:16:32 should i 06:16:33 steppe on it 06:16:35 its mysterye 06:16:46 elliott, no, break the block under it. 06:16:51 its not mencretrft 06:16:54 Oh. 06:17:12 * Madoka-Kaname knocks the alcohol out of elliott 06:17:17 its not alcohol 06:17:20 its monqy influence 06:17:25 oh 06:17:27 hi 06:17:37 why don't they build these things with chokepoints 06:18:17 eeeh 06:18:25 monqy: is this a volte thing 06:19:35 yes 06:19:47 maybe it used to be a bailey entry 06:19:52 but bailey went beyebye 06:19:56 what was bailey :( 06:19:58 maybe it wasnt baile 06:20:01 wjho knows 06:20:08 maybe monqy?? 06:20:47 fuck 06:20:50 fucking fuck fuck fuck 06:20:55 elliott, you would be free to add a (really messy) underload compiler to the wiki page, right? 06:21:16 just run up to it and kill it 06:21:18 Madoka-Kaname: that stuff generally goes in the file archive but sure (but it should probably go on a user page) 06:21:21 you're way too afraid of lectirc eels 06:21:25 monqy: they hurte!!! 06:21:30 huh 06:21:45 I don't /have/ a user page... 06:21:57 awwww no 06:22:02 Madoka-Kaname: what's your username 06:22:03 just create 06:22:07 User:username/Underload to Scala compiler 06:22:08 or whatever 06:22:11 and link it from the Underload page 06:22:26 oh come on!!! 06:22:38 aaaaah 06:23:32 elliott, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#External_resources 06:23:39 There's only this for links... 06:24:07 ehh, I guess it can count as "external" 06:24:10 but you could just put it in the file archive 06:24:27 monqy: since when are yaks kinda weak 06:24:52 since ghmo 06:25:39 whats ghmo got to do with yake 06:25:40 also 06:25:44 stuff is starting to get scary again :( 06:25:52 elliott, is the file archive up for public uploading? >< 06:26:03 Madoka-Kaname: see http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ 06:26:23 aaaaah 06:26:24 bees 06:26:41 fuck 06:26:44 I thought I had poison resistance 06:26:56 you do 06:26:59 oh 06:26:59 ghoul 06:27:08 wow that was easy 06:27:12 ghouls are gr8 06:28:12 uhhhh 06:28:15 thanks, autoexplore 06:29:03 uuugh 06:29:06 fucking cyclos 06:29:09 cyclops 06:29:46 monqy: pickle time 06:29:55 nice 06:30:20 maybe i'll quaff curing and lumber over to the cyclops 06:30:26 elliott: oh no 06:30:27 Can you teleport? 06:30:30 blink? 06:30:37 BLINK! 06:30:38 i can blonk 06:30:41 shachaf: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png 06:30:41 what are 06:30:43 cyclopses really scary 06:30:53 Blink behind the oooooo and run away perhaps. 06:30:54 monqy: christ that's beautiful 06:30:56 zomg 06:31:08 elliott: monqy's self portrait of me > your self portrait of me 06:31:10 ion: dumb 06:31:19 i guess ill escape downstairs 06:31:24 elliott: it's even like french and stuff 06:31:29 paraphrasé 06:31:39 and there's a duck thing 06:31:41 and a flower thing 06:32:18 how scary are cyclopses 06:32:35 imagine an ogre that throws rocks which are also ogres 06:32:43 monqy, elliott has been updated 06:33:31 oops 06:33:32 im burden 06:33:42 i guess nothing's likely to pick those up uhhh 06:33:44 can i sort by weight 06:34:05 monqy: do the ogre rocks throw rocks 06:34:07 or ogres 06:34:47 what's uh 06:34:50 what's up with my inventory weight 06:34:53 im not carrying anything super heavy?? 06:35:02 The flesh. 06:35:03 except foode i guess 06:35:08 ill drop sheep 06:35:13 sheeppe 06:35:28 is troll hide good fo ranything 06:35:54 Look at its description. The short answer: probably not. 06:36:04 mmmm 06:36:07 stiff and knobbly 06:36:09 *for anything 06:36:16 I 06:36:16 suppose you could wear it if you really wanted to, although you probably want 06:36:16 to enchant it into proper armour first. 06:36:18 :D 06:36:27 Enchanting it provides some regeneration IIRC. 06:36:45 Perhaps it was at AC+4 or something like that. 06:37:23 what is UP with these branches 06:37:33 you already saw orc 06:37:35 If you’re a lighte armoure guy, it myghte be usefulle. 06:37:39 lair is max depth 13 06:37:39 monqy: huh?? 06:37:43 i did not see orcish mines 06:37:46 elliott: yes you did 06:37:49 elliott: you saw the entry vault 06:37:51 Search for what [Enter for "mines", or ? for help]? orcish mines 06:37:52 _Can't find anything matching that. 06:37:52 elliott: it had an eel 06:37:56 ssh there and hit ^O 06:37:57 elliott: check xmap 06:38:05 And hit ^G now 06:38:07 ion: as I said, asterisk o works 06:38:20 elliott: you didn't see the staircase but you saw the entry vault 06:38:26 monqy: which dlvl? 06:38:27 it'll be on your Xmap 06:38:29 I forget 06:38:38 i dunno how to find it with the Xmap 06:38:40 [ 06:38:47 also did you draw that duck it's beautiful 06:38:50 yes 06:38:54 monqy: i don't know what the entry vault looks like 06:39:13 i used to be better at drawing but i'm so out of practice and my tablet is like weird so the pen thing moves faster horizontally than diagonally 06:39:17 up again 06:39:20 i;ll know what level it is 06:39:21 can you draw me a self-portrait :( 06:39:24 yes 06:39:27 ok prepare for 06:39:29 scrollening 06:39:37 is it this 06:39:38 that one 06:39:38 yes 06:39:42 ok well 06:39:43 level 6 06:39:45 i'll go there after lair 06:39:59 oh this level has a bunch of centaurs 06:40:15 lol 06:40:15 ^ul ^ 06:40:16 ...out of stack! 06:40:22 poor guy 06:40:32 I like shachaf.png. 06:40:42 ion: did you see shachef.png before it 06:40:45 no 06:40:53 shachaf.png > shachef.png 06:41:03 wow i get to choose which armour to curse 06:41:06 uhhh 06:41:11 the splint i guess 06:41:12 "for now" 06:41:14 oh wait 06:41:16 im good enough to use plate now 06:41:17 oh well 06:41:27 wheres shachef.png i don't have it 06:41:28 ion: here: 06:41:34 http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag/shachef.png 06:41:35 ^ul (a)S^ 06:41:35 a ...out of stack! 06:41:49 monqy: you too 06:42:10 Too bad i don’t know the context for shachef, paraphrased. 06:42:16 ^ul (ACTION hugs elliott)S 06:42:16 * fungot hugs elliott 06:42:20 ion: There is no context whatsoever. 06:42:38 shachaf has this logo thing that I crudely attempted to imitate, and someone said paraphrasing shachef or something at one point. 06:43:02 The Bonzi Buddy thing has no context except shachaf or someone mentioned it shortly before I started doing the self-portrait. 06:43:16 bOOZE!!!! 06:43:36 wait, that's a *single* potion of heal wounds? 06:44:41 monqy: i dont want to be diseased 06:44:44 ＢＲＥＡＫＩＮＧ　ＮＥＷＳ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/23/next-generation-iphone-part-leaks-begin-with-home-buttons/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/01/claimed-iphone-5-sim-card-tray-appears-identical-to-iphone-4s/ 06:45:08 ion: lmao 06:45:09 elliott: ghouls cant 06:45:10 elliott: dont wory 06:45:24 monqy: man ghouls need nerfing or something 06:45:28 they're perfect 06:45:35 ion: ＩＳ　ＴＨＡＴ　ＢＯＬＤ　ＦＵＬＬＷＩＤＴＨ　ＴＥＸＴ？！ 06:45:45 wow 06:45:59 im not used to battles with hill giants not ending with me nearly dead 06:46:00 ＳＨＡＣＨＡＦ：　ＹＥＳ！ 06:46:26 monqy: so this thing is mephitic cloud: the monster 06:46:27 ghouls don't have to worry about meph either 06:46:28 you must love it 06:46:36 yes you can use it to confuse the iguana 06:46:51 poor iguana 06:47:30 uh oh 06:47:35 what could it BE 06:48:15 ion: w°ah 06:48:29 oh is that 06:48:31 that thing 06:48:35 the invisible annoying things 06:49:15 monqy: is it that thing 06:49:41 help 06:50:00 I think it was called an unseen horror. 06:50:14 probably unseen horrore 06:50:35 yes help 06:50:41 im losing hp 06:51:12 ;_; 06:51:25 holy fuck, apple replaces round home button with rounded square 06:51:37 This changes everything. Again. 06:51:49 elliott: chokepoint it or something 06:52:02 i dont think there are any choke points 06:52:12 kmc: Did you see monqy's self-portrait of me? 06:52:17 i could go here but it'd just go around 06:52:20 It was even better than elliott's. 06:52:20 yes 06:52:50 I bet kmc wishes he had a self-portrait drawn by monqy. 06:53:01 im getting a self-portrait drawn by monqy 06:53:07 s/self/nude/ 06:53:09 oh there 06:53:56 yikes 06:54:17 ahahaha 06:54:20 Still **.... :-( 06:54:39 ion: didnt find any curse stuff 06:54:39 uhhh 06:54:42 maybe i should just tab spam these guys 06:54:48 If you think you can melee them, go to the middle quickly. That’ll be better than letting them blast you from the distance. 06:54:59 tab spam wins again 06:55:29 That worked, but you might have done the go-to-the-middle thing to get out of it with even more HP left. :-) 06:55:45 oh bugger 06:55:46 uhhh 06:55:50 do i still have to worry about this guy at xl11 06:56:41 Look at its description with x. I’m not sure how reliable that is, but i noticed it says something how bad the enemy is. 06:56:49 x=v 06:57:52 The “He looks extremely dangerous” part. I have no idea whether your level affects it, though. 06:57:56 07:57 Gastronok (j) | Spd: 5 | Int: normal (starting) | HD: 20 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 2/1 | Dam: 40 | Fl: amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: magic(80), drown | Chunks: poison | XP: 2131 | Sp: airstrike (0-50), slow, swiftness, small mammals, cantrip. 06:57:57 ouch 06:58:03 Also, x=v is nicer than xhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhv 06:58:14 specifically the HP and Dam parts 06:58:30 ill just run to the lair 06:59:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:59:15 hastronok probably wouldn't be too tough for your character 06:59:28 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:59:28 ill train up in the lair first 06:59:32 sure fine 06:59:33 uhh when does the lair start getting scary again 06:59:36 7 right 06:59:56 wow 07:00:34 hi may 02 07:00:54 08:00 black mamba[1/3]: Very fast snake that does a lot of damage and can inflict multiple levels of poisoning with one bite. Extremely dangerous, but susceptible to resistible magic, such as wands of paralysis, confusion, slowing, and disintegration. 07:00:55 i like how 07:00:57 "extremely dangerous" 07:00:59 and it shows in yellow 07:01:07 i guess it's less dangerous with rPois though 07:02:26 Maybe I should train something else too. 07:02:46 Nice door. 07:03:41 >100 hp \o/ 07:03:42 | 07:03:42 |\ 07:04:30 Great place to run, griffon. 07:05:52 I guess I don't really need three wands of random effects. 07:06:35 Sigh. 07:06:57 Wow, 90 dam. 07:07:02 Euhhh 07:07:15 Maybe I should run back up and face Gastronok. 07:08:28 monqy: :( 07:08:30 @time monqy 07:08:31 Local time for monqy is Wed May 2 00:08:31 2012 07:08:39 happy 00:08:31 07:11:27 hey 07:11:32 sure 07:11:38 5headed isn't too bad either 07:11:42 if you have gloves you can probably take it 07:11:47 yeah but 07:11:48 oh, ew 07:11:49 that's 90 dam :( 07:11:51 what 07:11:52 no 07:11:56 08:06 hydra (D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | Int: insect | HD: 13 | HP: 54-91 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | Fl: amphibious, regen | Res: magic(52), poison, drown | Chunks: poison+contam | XP: 1215. 07:11:57 each head checks your ac 07:12:01 18*5 = 90 07:12:01 oh 07:12:14 1d18 - 1d19 (factoring in -1 from glov) 07:12:15 i guess the -2 is 07:12:16 problematic 07:12:19 -2 frmo globe 07:12:21 velo 07:12:22 no 07:12:23 +1 -2 07:12:25 = -1 07:12:28 oh 07:12:36 so really you're pretty darn safe vs hydra 07:12:43 ok i take that back 07:12:51 your calculations were in error 07:12:58 ugh, no HW? 07:13:04 blinkk? 07:13:28 ugh can i 07:13:30 look at Xmap while blink 07:14:12 monqy: how fast are hydrae? 07:14:21 normal speed except in water (then they're fast) 07:14:34 do you have any better armour? 07:14:44 i have plate mail 07:14:49 it's only +0 though 07:14:55 if it improves your ac, use it 07:14:57 my splint mail is +4 07:14:59 so 07:15:00 i doubt it would 07:15:03 it may or may not improve your ac 07:15:08 and i'm not going to experiment to find out in these conditions 07:15:12 ok, blonked 07:15:16 well of course not right now 07:15:20 changing armour would be certain death 07:15:26 ok ill 07:15:28 I WAS KILLED BY A HYDRA ONCE* 07:15:28 leg for the < 07:15:34 * MANY TIMES 07:15:38 bother to close door? 07:17:39 monqy: 07:17:47 yes 07:18:25 19/6 07:18:28 oh 07:18:40 monqy: i could remove curse to check if plate mail would help but 07:18:45 ashey 07:19:00 i was waiting until i got enchant armour scrolls to switch 07:19:22 ok 07:19:39 do hydrae heal 07:19:47 quickly, yes 07:19:50 sigh 07:20:01 ill go have fun with thingybob 07:20:19 oh wait 07:20:20 this is lair 07:21:14 08:21 deep elf priest[1/1]: Notable abilities: Can smite, animate dead, die 07:21:17 the die thing makes me think they're 07:21:19 not very stronge??? 07:22:15 08:22 deep elf priest (e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high (items) | HD: 5 | HP: 16-30 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 9 | Fl: evil | Res: magic(40) | Vul: holy | Chunks: contam | XP: 136 | Sp: pain (d10), cantrip, minor healing, smiting (7-17), twisted resurrection. 07:22:16 lol 07:23:52 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:24:37 -!- elliott has joined. 07:24:37 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 07:24:37 -!- elliott has joined. 07:24:46 monqy: so uh 07:24:49 any hydrae suggestions 07:24:57 You are not playing in the latest version (33d826f) available! 07:24:57 [T]ransfer your save to the latest version? 07:24:58 aaaaa 07:25:01 what commits happened 07:25:32 dunno 07:25:40 "im updated" 07:25:45 i'll just 07:25:52 hydrae again and hope things don't go as badly as they did 07:26:01 but if they do i'll be fucked 07:27:11 auuugh 07:28:10 monqy: guess what :D :D :D :D :D: D: :D: D: 07:31:00 monqy: :( 07:31:03 ion: monqy isn't guessing 07:31:03 @time ion 07:31:04 Local time for ion is Wed May 2 10:31:04 2012 07:31:52 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 07:31:55 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 07:31:55 -!- quintopia has joined. 07:32:14 hey 07:32:14 uh 07:32:20 are you dying 07:33:18 yes 07:34:08 help ;_; 07:34:14 the hippgriff is dying quickly so 07:34:18 i MIGHT be able to just whack it but 07:34:23 im scared 07:34:25 oh i do have 3 curing 07:34:28 (really need HW but uh) 07:34:38 ok good 07:35:15 hydrae dealt with 07:37:09 what 07:38:42 regen \o/ 07:38:42 | 07:38:42 /^\ 07:40:15 sjghdfkg 07:40:22 monqy: eight-headed is beyond my abilities right 07:41:44 look behind you 07:41:49 it's a eight-headed hydra 07:42:23 elliott: ...A word starts with a glottal stop iff you use "an" instead of "a" in front of it. 07:42:29 Glad to have clarified it for you! 07:43:18 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 07:43:28 its 07:43:29 beautiful 07:43:37 zomg 07:43:42 i wante one :'( 07:43:46 i just wish that spellingof my name didnt make me crei(briados) :'( 07:43:53 im going to set that as my background 07:45:12 monqy: so uhhh 07:45:15 eight-headed hydra 07:45:17 dangerous 07:45:17 right 07:45:23 not as dangerous 07:45:24 as 07:45:25 if you decide to take it on you'll want to soften it up with wands or something 07:45:29 EIGHT MILLION-headed hydra 07:45:34 i have wandes 07:45:39 do you have greater destruction and some decent invo skill? 07:45:47 greater destruction? i'm ashe 07:45:51 oh 07:45:51 right 07:45:52 ashe 07:45:53 right 07:45:56 wands then 07:45:56 kind of 07:46:01 wish i was makh right now 07:46:03 uhhh ok 07:46:06 ill put on gloves first 07:46:13 hokay 07:46:22 uhhh fire? fireball? flame? confusion? 07:46:30 fire and fireball are probably the best for this guy 07:46:32 not flame 07:46:38 dunno about confusion 07:47:09 that didn't really do anything to it 07:47:13 uhhh there's no point retreating right 07:47:21 what if you dont want to die 07:47:26 i mean 07:47:27 because its fast 07:47:30 and because 07:47:34 the only way out is through it or fungus 07:47:36 its not fast 07:47:42 and that's not the only way out 07:47:49 there's a diagonal slott over there 07:47:55 below the fungu 07:48:00 oh right 07:48:14 just hope it doesn't get a doubel move 07:48:26 and hope you don't do that 07:48:46 what are you doing 07:48:48 blink out 07:48:49 now 07:49:07 im kind of an idiot 07:49:26 uhhh 07:49:30 maybe i should go back to the dungeon 07:49:33 and 07:49:39 not lair yet 07:49:44 maybe 07:50:27 08:50 slime creature[1/4]: An annoying resource drain; they hit hard enough that light-armour users have to worry about them, have reasonably high HP, never leave corpses, come in packs, regenerate, and flee at the slightest provocation. 07:50:28 how annoying 07:50:57 whoah 07:51:05 yeah uh 07:51:07 don't do that 07:51:09 "Try not to let them merge more than once, because the damage only keeps increasing, from 44 for two slimes up to 110 for five slimes." 07:51:10 oh 07:51:14 uhhhh 07:51:15 how fast are they 07:51:19 normal speed 07:51:25 or are they 11 07:51:32 I know ugly things are 11 07:51:33 10 07:51:35 says gretell 07:51:37 10 is normal 07:51:43 very large oh good 07:51:43 close the door on them 07:51:44 can i like 07:51:46 fireball it 07:51:46 monqy: So, gloves help a lot when hitting monsters with your claws? 07:51:46 ok 07:51:55 ion: what? 07:52:05 ion: gloves are for making you not chop hydra heads off 07:52:08 ion: (with your claws) 07:52:16 Ok, good to know. 07:52:19 ive closed the door on it monqy 07:52:20 ion: they negate claw bonus damage though 07:52:25 ok 07:52:28 Right, makes sense. 07:52:41 ill 07:52:42 go upstairs 07:52:49 done 07:52:51 so uhhh 07:52:54 I’ve never fought hydras with ghouls, i didn’t know their claws are badass enough to chop heads off. 07:52:57 there's a very large slime creature down there 07:53:03 maybe a wande will help??? 07:53:20 ion: it's just claws 1, "sharp fingernails", but that's enough to chop them 07:53:21 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:54:01 -!- elliott has joined. 07:54:28 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest12549. 07:54:35 -!- Guest12549 has changed nick to elliott. 07:54:38 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 07:54:38 -!- elliott has joined. 07:54:40 monqy: help :( 07:54:59 help? 07:55:01 wow 07:55:05 elliot's gotten further as a monk than I ever have 07:55:12 (I'm bad at unarmed combat for some reason) 07:55:16 what 07:55:21 unarmed combat is really good 07:55:32 unless it was meganerfed 07:55:44 uc feels really really inaccurate at lower levels 07:55:47 maybe I am doing something wrong 07:55:49 I pump it as fast as I can 07:55:52 does it suck before 27? 07:56:04 uc is bad at the lower levels but really really good at higher levels 07:56:09 that's what I thought 07:56:09 well 07:56:09 Patashu: *elliott 07:56:14 im uc only 16.5 07:56:17 elliotter 07:56:17 but it still feels "pretey goode" 07:56:18 monqy: help as in 07:56:22 there's a very large slime creature > 07:56:26 but i want to explore > 07:56:31 pick another stair case 07:56:31 if you leave its LOS 07:56:32 it splits up 07:56:34 so do that 07:56:34 alternatively do orc 07:56:44 G 07:56:48 elliott: it's on d:6 07:56:50 oh that orc 07:56:50 right 07:56:53 monqy: but i thought lair first 07:56:53 and 07:56:56 in lair i keep dieing 07:57:00 so 07:57:03 "orc maybe not so goode"? 07:57:08 lair is easier than orc 07:57:12 lair first is what you do if it's not ful of things you have problems with 07:57:12 yeah but 07:57:18 Patashu: lair has eight-headed hydrae 07:57:18 so 07:57:19 I mean obviously 07:57:20 if you get a hard lair, orc might be easier 07:57:23 okey 07:57:30 yeah I guess what monqy said 07:57:31 one time I went into lair 07:57:31 and 07:57:35 6 blink frogs were around the staircase 07:57:36 aaaaa 07:57:39 I think I lived but still 07:57:52 maybe i should 07:57:52 but I prefer lair's difficulty spurts to orc's 07:57:53 splint mail 07:57:55 one time I had a lair as a ghoul where all three up staircases on lair:1 were next to a nasty hydra 07:57:56 since orc's has smiting 07:58:03 monqy: how can i calculate what AC/EV i'll get with the splint mail 07:58:06 erm 07:58:08 uhhhh 07:58:09 monqy: how can i calculate what AC/EV i'll get with the plate armour 07:58:11 dunnnnno 07:58:16 maybe henzel knows 07:58:17 plate will give you more gdr 07:58:22 yeah but 07:58:23 +4 splint mail 07:58:25 +0 plate armour 07:58:26 and 07:58:27 you'll have less AC 07:58:28 but more GDR 07:58:29 i have no enchant armour 07:58:30 (and less EV) 07:58:33 ehhh 07:58:35 doesn't sound worth it yet 07:58:35 btw 07:58:37 -2 pair of gloves? 07:58:40 if i find enchant armour 07:58:42 Patashu: yeah 07:58:43 acquirement 07:58:47 "really gr8" 07:58:47 cool 07:58:55 6 exclusions lmfao 07:58:57 ok lets 07:58:58 wait, you never found orc? 07:58:58 remove those 07:59:01 Patashu: i found orc but 07:59:02 electric eel 07:59:04 and i was scared of it 07:59:07 monqy: should i adjust my skilles maybe 07:59:11 idk 07:59:16 electric elliott 07:59:16 your skills are fine 07:59:19 (maybe more uc less non uc) 07:59:30 i was training armour so that 07:59:34 plate would be super gr8 07:59:43 are you at uc mindelay yet? 07:59:46 iirc it takes forever 07:59:46 and fighting because :hp: 07:59:49 Patashu: probably not 07:59:56 uc mindelay is 27, it used to be 25 but it was nerfed 08:00:00 er 08:00:01 at 27 08:00:04 mindelay is 5 08:00:05 oh 08:00:09 you don't hit mindelay until 27 08:00:14 yeah in that case 08:00:14 I would recommend more mindelay 08:00:16 uc is good to train to 27 anyway 08:00:17 *more uc 08:00:17 since 08:00:24 each skill level gives you more damage etc too 08:00:27 like 08:00:31 it adds 1 to your base damage 08:00:45 or something like that 08:00:53 anyway it's good and you should train it 08:00:57 i am 08:00:58 im just 08:00:59 training armour too 08:01:08 you could defocus it if you wanted uc up faster 08:01:15 i dunno much about armour skille "oops" 08:01:19 well 08:01:20 i just thought 08:01:22 plate is rly heavy and stuff 08:01:23 and 08:01:31 ill have to remove curse to switch to it 08:01:32 so 08:01:37 CDO should let us attach gdb to our game instances so we could fix problems like too low UC level. 08:01:38 since i'm waiting for an enchant armour scroll to make it worth it 08:01:42 yeah having lots of armour skille is good for heavey armours 08:01:46 i might as well train armour a lot so that I don't get EV penalty as much 08:01:48 shrug 08:02:05 eeeellls 08:02:08 armour skill also gives you more ac on heavier armours 08:02:14 imagine if the eels in crawl were like the eels in brogue 08:02:14 D: 08:02:24 non electrice 08:02:26 oh uh 08:02:28 what's with this smoke thing 08:02:28 "no problemo" 08:02:31 smoke? 08:02:32 yeah I guess it would be an improvement actually 08:02:35 also, that's fire 08:02:35 the 08:02:36 fire cloud 08:02:36 don't walk into it 08:02:37 you mean the vault? 08:02:38 stuff 08:02:40 yeah just avoid it 08:02:41 Patashu: it's excluded 08:02:43 what is it tho 08:02:45 fire 08:02:46 *though 08:02:46 burns 08:02:47 yes 08:02:47 thanks 08:02:48 i mean 08:02:49 don't step in it 08:02:50 what's inside it 08:02:52 what is 08:02:53 loot 08:02:54 the construction 08:02:54 you can see it 08:02:56 dude 08:02:58 i 08:03:00 know 08:03:02 it's 08:03:04 fire 08:03:04 haha 08:03:06 armour of fire resistance 08:03:08 what crap 08:03:09 some joke vault 08:03:10 :D 08:03:16 Blink inside at some point when you have extra blink scrolls or cTele. 08:03:25 if it looks like there’s something useful inside. 08:03:29 there isn't 08:03:38 not even cash 08:03:54 what is it with warriors switching weapons 08:03:59 and uhhh 08:03:59 why am i super lagging 08:04:01 you can never have enough blink scrolls 08:04:03 shame on you ion 08:04:05 advocating their waste 08:04:08 20 gold pieces is infinitely more gold pieces than i have. 08:04:28 yikes 08:04:32 you didn't realize the other orc warrior had a glaive? 08:04:35 because he did 08:04:36 oh 08:04:40 whoops 08:04:43 uhhhh 08:04:46 maybe i'm not ready for orcish mines after all :) 08:04:54 more UC required 08:05:00 glaivd 08:05:04 monqy: h 08:05:04 elp 08:05:06 what happened here 08:05:09 "yikes" 08:05:10 orc warriors 08:05:11 the orc warrior has a glaive 08:05:17 Patashu: did you see monqy's self-portrait of shachaf and me 08:05:18 s 08:05:19 no 08:05:20 *portraits 08:05:21 show 08:05:21 Note to self: consider adding “hits you from afar” to force_more_messages 08:05:21 to change the subject 08:05:27 ion: tempting 08:05:28 ion: :D 08:05:37 Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 08:05:44 Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 08:05:46 monqy: fuck you 08:05:51 those are pretty good 08:05:56 i had to look in the logs for those 08:06:07 Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 08:06:12 thanks 08:06:21 monqy: so uhhhhh 08:06:25 what should i do 08:06:31 quaff curing (AGAINE???) 08:06:38 why is there no heal wounds in this fucking dungeon 08:06:38 clearly you need to zerk 08:06:41 Patashu: i dont have zerk 08:06:43 im 08:06:44 that's the joke 08:06:49 laughing 08:06:51 what scrolls do you have? 08:07:12 elliott: double joke: youre ghouel 08:07:24 ok useless shit 08:07:24 well 08:07:27 you're speed 10, they're speed 10 08:07:28 ghowel movement 08:07:30 you're not in danger of dying 08:07:30 thanks 08:07:32 unless you let them hit you 08:07:36 do you like pillar dancing? 08:07:39 no 08:07:40 Patashu: double moves! 08:07:45 monqy: oh noes! 08:07:45 what monqy said 08:07:48 one double move won't kill you 08:07:50 (I think??) 08:07:51 Patashu: energy randomisation "yaey fun" 08:08:09 btw play brogue 08:08:12 no 08:08:13 features: more fun eels 08:08:15 and no energy randomisation 08:08:18 btw play xjump 08:08:18 monqy: do i run to < or do i quaff curinge :/ 08:08:27 run to < would work 08:08:28 btw play monqys roguelike 08:08:28 (IMO) 08:08:31 ion: omg i love xjump 08:08:33 i forget if i had a name for it 08:08:34 well 08:08:34 i fucking hate it 08:08:36 but 08:08:36 i love i t 08:08:38 *it 08:08:43 qrawl 08:08:57 monqy: quaff curing or run to < help 08:09:04 elliott: Try my tile set for it. Debian/Ubuntu? xjump -graphic /usr/share/games/xjump/ion.xpm.gz 08:09:21 ion: Is this just an elaborate way to brag about being a DEBIAN-PUBLISHED ARTIST? 08:09:28 Anyway, no, OS X right now. 08:09:42 http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/xjump/ion.xpm.gz 08:10:08 elliott: i;'d run probabley 08:10:25 what if there's eel or w/e 08:10:33 didn't you kill all the eels? 08:10:42 eel solution: fog 08:10:42 btw 08:11:18 it suddenly occurs to me that one of these is gonna follow me up 08:11:19 and kill me 08:11:25 uh 08:11:25 right 08:11:26 also btw: makhleb solution to hydra: hlep from greater servant 08:11:26 the regular orc 08:11:28 who is easy 08:11:34 yeah but im still a scarey 08:11:45 wow such lage 08:11:48 you should be way past the point of normal orcs killing you 08:11:52 i am but 08:11:56 low hp makes me jittery 08:11:56 Patashu: normal orcs with disto! 08:12:03 lol 08:12:08 A crappy video i captured from xjump a few years ago: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/xjump/xjump_562.ogv 08:12:12 _The orc sings a few bars from the Orcish anthem. 08:12:13 force_more reasons 08:12:14 WHY DO THEY DO THESE 08:12:29 The orc throws an uncursed orcish dagger. 08:12:32 fml 08:12:32 elliott: the orc jeers, as orcs often do 08:12:40 phew 08:12:47 let's try that again 08:12:58 christ that guy's tough 08:13:09 and wow this lag 08:14:01 monqy: ion: are you lagging of CDO twest 08:14:08 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:14:09 mo 08:14:09 no 08:14:13 rip 08:14:23 uh oh 08:14:26 @ask elliott looks like your connections on the blink 08:14:26 Consider it noted. 08:14:26 orc warrior eel tag team 08:14:28 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:14:44 btw, monqy 08:14:46 I have two brogue wins now 08:14:53 doublegrats 08:14:55 -!- elliott has joined. 08:15:04 uugh 08:15:04 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 08:15:05 this lag 08:15:07 and crap 08:15:15 maybe I'd try brogue again if there weren't monkeys or acid lumps 08:15:15 monqy: very funny 08:15:17 one of them was with a... I think war axe, plate and a shitload of useful utility staves like obstruction and tunneling 08:15:20 what do you have against monqys 08:15:26 the other one was with an axe of quietus, plate and 0 staves until depth 19 (and all of them sucked) 08:15:30 elliott: i almost typoed monkeys as monqys 08:15:37 elliott: then i fixed it 08:15:37 eel time 08:15:41 also, both of the two things youm entioend are easy 08:15:43 what 08:15:45 are those two guys doing 08:15:48 try this: maybe I'd try brogue again if there weren't vampire bats on d:2 08:15:54 holy shit 08:15:56 Patashu: easy but awful 08:15:58 ahahahaha 08:16:02 wtf is that shit 08:16:03 Patashu: vampire bats on d:2 are annoying tooo 08:16:06 eel priest tagteam 08:16:09 monqy: help 08:16:25 I think you'll get out of LOS quickest if you run to the stairs 08:16:29 elliott: get to the wall to heal, then kill the eel if you want, then confuse the orc if you want 08:16:37 by wall do you mean stairs 08:16:41 yeah 08:16:50 ez 08:17:05 meanie 08:17:14 hehe 08:17:21 elliott: Do you get a huge adrenaline rush when approaching a high score in xjump? 08:17:28 ion: i don't really approach high scores in xjump 08:17:30 i just slip and die 08:17:36 its like the platforms are made out of butter 08:17:36 a personal high score 08:17:40 yeah 08:17:42 i dont get those either 08:17:48 WHAT IS THIS EEL MADE OF 08:17:49 I used to play icy tower, which sounds like what xjump is 08:17:52 I never got really far on it 08:17:57 but I always marveled at the replays of ppl who did 08:17:58 Things stay "almost dead" in Crawl for about 100 turns. 08:18:21 vision of a gate? 08:18:38 check your map 08:18:50 hmm 08:18:54 so there's a portal of some kind on this level? 08:18:58 scroll it around 08:19:08 I thought you only got that message when ash mapped it 08:19:15 there 08:19:19 looks portally 08:19:22 it's a thing alright 08:19:22 what could it be i wonder 08:19:32 might be ice cave, volcano or a shop 08:20:02 wow these priests cut into my hp a lot for some reason 08:20:09 ot 08:20:13 what 08:20:15 smites cut through ac 08:20:16 sorry 08:20:18 yeah 08:20:20 smites are annoying 08:20:21 and it's random if they decide to smite or not 08:20:23 is there anything i can do about them 08:20:24 so one priest will be like 08:20:25 yawn 08:20:26 another will be like 08:20:29 17 17 17 17 08:20:30 and not really 08:20:33 aside from killing them faster 08:20:55 uhhh monqy probably isn't happy with what i'm doing 08:21:03 this is a weird fuckin channel 08:21:03 monqy: have you ever considerede 08:21:12 a self portraite of . . . 08:21:12 you've said\ 08:21:15 s/\\$// 08:21:25 YOURSELF ? ? ? 08:21:32 maybe tomorrow 08:21:34 TWIST 08:21:35 shachaf: did you learn any crazy unix or x86 today 08:21:39 that you could tell me about 08:21:42 im tired and still have to read all of this stuff i should have read hours ago 08:21:46 butdddidint 08:22:08 monqy: maybe tomorrow what 08:22:16 oh 08:22:16 kmc: I learned that Microsoft abuses bits that don't belong to them. 08:22:20 Does that count? 08:22:26 self portrote (of self) 08:22:44 Something to do with the iret state. 08:22:45 which bits? 08:22:51 hmm 08:23:02 which bits of 08:23:18 Apparently there are 64-or-something bits of flags that go on the stack and/or in a register that iret uses or something? 08:23:24 And some of them are reserved. 08:23:27 But Microsoft uses them anyway. 08:23:38 iret will restore EFLAGS or RFLAGS from the stack 08:23:51 is that what you mean? 08:23:59 monqy: i guess i have to find another upstairs to find that portal? 08:24:00 Looks like it. 08:24:04 from a level below 08:24:05 hardware stacks are distasteful 08:24:09 that or diggging 08:24:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAGS_register_(computing) 08:24:27 ive never done digging 08:24:27 is it hard 08:24:29 Yes, look at all those reserved bits. 08:24:39 -_- 08:24:44 "(computing)" meaning "(x86)" 08:24:54 and what does Windows use it for? 08:25:01 monqy: how do i dige 08:25:05 wand of dige 08:25:12 i knew that much 08:25:21 I don't know. 08:25:23 should i step back from wall 08:25:25 or go right next to it 08:25:28 right next to it 08:25:41 use shift-j 08:25:49 thankse 08:25:52 shachaf: how is it that gin tastes terrible, and tonic water tastes terrible, but gin & tonic is delicious? 08:25:56 sweet 08:26:02 aha 08:26:04 kmc: I don't think I've ever had either. 08:26:06 it's a volcanop 08:26:08 Which one should I try first? 08:26:16 well, they're both terrible, so... 08:26:21 Ooh, a version with smooth scrolling. http://gnujump.es.gnu.org/index.php/Main_Page 08:26:28 i think modern tonic water is not too bad 08:26:31 ion: that one REALLY REALLY sucks 08:26:33 it's buggy as hell 08:26:34 iirc 08:26:36 It feels quite decent if you turn the turbl trails and blur off. 08:26:41 or maybe i just got unlucky 08:26:49 Patashu: should i volcano 08:26:50 i've never volcanoes 08:26:52 *volcanoed 08:26:53 drop your scrolls 08:26:54 Seems to work on my system at the moment. 08:26:55 how hard is it 08:26:56 the original idea was to mask the taste of antimalarial quinine in tonic water, by adding gin 08:27:01 fiery 08:27:02 so drop your scrolls 08:27:03 which should give you an idea how fucking terrible tonic water is 08:27:17 though, maybe it's less "mask the taste" and more "if this is the only booze we give the troops, they'll drink it" 08:27:17 Patashu: that's not helpful 08:27:22 well 08:27:25 you're dropped right next to the exit 08:27:30 so you can leave if it's hard for some reason 08:27:30 also 08:27:32 volcanos might erupt 08:27:36 but there'll be places to go for shelter 08:27:48 antimalarial quine 08:27:48 i mean 08:27:52 how scary is the stuff inside 08:28:03 you'll be fine 08:28:07 haha what a terrible place for edmund to turn up 08:28:09 like 08:28:14 bit late to the party 08:28:22 edmund is always fashionably late 08:28:31 _Your scroll of teleportation catches fire! 08:28:34 grrrrr 08:28:37 i want the thing that protects you from that crap 08:28:46 hey, i can see invis now 08:30:08 ellie: Wow, you already have ***... 08:30:11 monqy: should i volcanoe 08:30:19 ion: Eh? I've been with ashey for ages. 08:30:29 That was the point. :-P 08:30:31 -!- itidus20 has joined. 08:30:35 :( 08:30:36 Moar cursed stuff! 08:30:40 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:30:41 Ihave cursed stuff! 08:30:43 *I have 08:30:46 See the god screen. 08:30:52 ^ or something 08:31:07 elliott: volcano 08:31:15 "Your claws are not bound." Uhh... 08:31:18 yeah 08:31:19 monqy: Yes, I know. Should I it? 08:31:20 obviously don't bind those 08:31:22 but you can bind the rest 08:31:23 elliott: yes 08:31:28 monqy: Okay. (Why?) 08:31:37 sometimes it's freee loot 08:31:40 other times it's less free 08:31:42 but still loot 08:31:54 other times you want to get out but you can get out so it's all good 08:32:06 Really drop all my scrolls? 08:32:13 they'll burn 08:32:14 Oh, I don't have any of use. 08:32:24 Will potions burn? :P 08:32:27 no 08:32:30 rF++++++ might be useful judging from the name. 08:32:35 potions prefer freeszing 08:32:36 ion: wat 08:32:38 rF+ is enough 08:32:40 Cold destroys potions, fire destroys scrolles. 08:32:50 elliott: volcano is where you find plate of rF 08:32:54 I have ring of protection from fire 08:32:56 so 08:32:59 and also ring of ice 08:33:00 btw, if you have gourmand 08:33:02 Sounds okay 08:33:04 you don't need to wait for chunks to rot 08:33:05 elliott: ooh or cpm of rF!!! 08:33:06 maybe I should replace regeneration with ice for volcano? 08:33:08 er 08:33:08 cpa 08:33:12 cpa of rF 08:33:13 Patashu: I know. 08:33:16 monqy: maybe I should replace regeneration with ice for volcano? 08:33:20 what 08:33:21 ice? 08:33:22 For more rF. 08:33:23 ice makes you rF- 08:33:25 Oh, wait. 08:33:26 not rF+ 08:33:27 Wrong way around. 08:33:31 Good thing I didn't do that! 08:33:37 doooo it 08:33:41 Thanks, autoexplore. 08:33:42 oh 08:33:42 this one 08:33:48 in this one the volcano erupts periodically 08:33:49 Patashu: Does that mean run? 08:33:51 :( 08:33:52 when it does ge tto a hut and close the door 08:33:53 thautoexplore 08:33:59 you have rF+ so you should be fine 08:33:59 Fuck that. That sounds waful. 08:34:02 *awful. 08:34:08 the damage is pretty low if you have rF+ 08:34:11 If it erupts, I die, right? 08:34:16 no 08:34:20 it just spawns fire clouds randomly 08:34:27 So, uh, is autoexplore safe? 08:34:37 I forget so I'd manualexplore 08:35:32 whee 08:35:32 haha 08:35:36 see it's like 08:35:36 0 damage 08:35:53 http://lymia.x10.bz/?a=contentpage&p=ulc < wee~ 08:36:02 Now to be lazy and email the esoteric archive tomorrow. 08:36:05 loot 08:36:16 Close the doore 08:36:17 Madoka-Kaname: You can just add that to the external links section as-is. 08:36:25 ion: Bit late. 08:36:56 lol 08:37:06 rF+ reasons 08:37:16 ac helps too 08:37:17 This must be one magical fucking ring to be makingt his harmless. 08:37:20 it does? 08:37:21 neat 08:37:22 not that your ac is particularly excellent but 08:37:27 Well, not *harmless*. 08:37:30 But it's not hruting much. 08:37:31 *making this 08:38:04 What, is that it? 08:38:08 yes 08:38:08 is there anything on the other side of watter 08:38:15 that's not water 08:38:20 it isn't? 08:38:21 that is Deudly Lava 08:38:24 on the bottom 08:38:28 oh wow 08:38:28 It's deep water. 08:38:33 but no 08:38:37 I don't think there's anything past that 08:38:38 have potions of levitation? 08:38:44 one 08:38:45 lol 08:38:45 Yes, technically. 08:38:46 don't drown 08:38:51 I'm not going to go there. 08:38:53 It's obviously a circular map. 08:38:55 look at the vault 08:39:03 What of it? 08:39:06 I took everything that looked useful. 08:39:06 it'll say 08:39:10 Good ideas #497: drink a potion of levitation and explore the vast area of deep water. 08:39:11 Authoratatively 08:39:13 It was mostly just lower-class armour with fire. 08:39:16 monqy: What vault? 08:39:21 the volcano map 08:39:25 this whole vault 08:39:30 the one you're in 08:39:38 Look at it how? 08:39:50 fine i'lll look at it 08:40:04 I honestly didn't know what you meant. 08:40:09 http://www.gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/volcano.des 08:40:12 is what monqy means 08:40:20 ok there's nothing on the other side 08:40:23 That's so cheating. 08:40:52 so as ash can you like 08:40:57 turn remove curse into curse armor/jewellery 08:41:00 Yes. 08:41:20 Orcs, more like tab tab tab tab tab tab. 08:41:41 tab the orcs 08:41:43 torcs 08:42:05 torques 08:42:27 :( 08:42:31 ogre + orc warrior 08:42:32 :D 08:42:32 Orcs, more like tab tab tab die. 08:42:54 you can step downright and find a choke 08:42:58 yes 08:43:04 with 41 hp? ok 08:43:11 -!- shubshub has joined. 08:43:12 the warrior and ogre are melee only 08:43:19 and neither have polearm 08:43:23 no chokes :( 08:43:24 -!- shubshub has quit (Client Quit). 08:43:25 there's choke everywhere 08:43:27 but there's some semichokes i guess 08:43:28 yup 08:43:28 pick one 08:44:01 ha 08:44:04 ha 08:44:15 why aren't you damaging that ogr 08:44:16 monqy: I told you my continuing fear of ogres was justified. 08:44:25 That's a good question. 08:44:30 I have no idea. 08:44:31 wow 08:44:32 look at all those wands 08:44:34 also why is your ac so low (when does ac start going up?) 08:44:49 How about curing + might? 08:45:00 Patashu: Yeah, I should really start using those more. 08:45:57 You mangle the ogre!! 08:46:29 Oops. 08:46:32 This is the end level, isn't it. 08:46:34 The scary one. 08:46:40 depends what's on it 08:46:40 it's only scary sometimes 08:47:19 i dunno what was with that other ogre 08:47:24 it thought it was a hill giant 08:47:59 mm 08:48:01 centaurs 08:48:01 monqy: it's scary this time 08:48:18 i guess i could ~mighte~ but 08:48:21 but? 08:48:27 it's not like you're going to ever use all those potions of might 08:48:29 may as well 08:48:35 Point. 08:48:48 ooh the crossbows ending? 08:48:51 niiiiiiiiiiiiice 08:48:58 Is the worst yet to come? 08:48:58 what does that mean 08:49:07 oh 08:49:07 crossbows ending is the 08:49:08 well 08:49:09 crossbows 08:49:13 i'll just let you see for yourself 08:49:17 no i don't like the 08:49:19 seeing for myself part 08:49:21 am i gonna die :( 08:49:29 well i didn't die when i did it 08:49:35 ok they have crossbows 08:49:38 should i 08:49:39 but it was an 08:49:40 wand them? 08:49:41 experience 08:50:08 is the thing basically 08:50:12 orc warriors with crossbows firing annoying crap 08:50:50 monqy: :( 08:51:20 also 08:51:25 how many firings do wands last 08:51:30 depends on the wand 08:51:34 you don't have to wand yet 08:52:02 but don't just stand in front of them and let them shoot at you either 08:52:34 lol im fucked 08:52:52 uhhh 08:52:58 also 08:53:01 how many of these guys are there 08:53:10 forget 08:53:44 haha 08:53:44 yes 08:53:46 thanks toadstool 08:53:54 sick toadstool strategy 08:54:14 haha 08:54:16 toadstool chokepoints 08:54:17 I love it 08:54:28 centaur 08:54:29 im so fucking dead 08:54:32 why 08:54:34 it's like 08:54:35 one tile away 08:54:37 48 hp 08:54:40 and 08:54:43 i have to manouvre around toget to it 08:54:45 which puts me in firing range of 08:54:48 all the shit up there 08:55:07 what's on the other side of the wall 08:55:10 do you have scrying 08:55:10 so? 08:55:11 can it shoot you 08:55:15 monqy: i have ashe 08:55:17 i can see 08:55:17 {s 08:55:18 and 08:55:19 triangles 08:55:21 and shit 08:55:22 i know 08:55:22 but 08:55:25 do you have scrying yet 08:55:29 i dont know what that is :( 08:55:33 Patashu: no, but it can hit through the fungus in one turn 08:55:36 check 'a' screen 08:55:38 err 08:55:40 toadstool 08:55:45 ok no scrying 08:55:48 monqy: im not so good with piety 08:55:52 so i see 08:56:33 well whatever you do don't charge up into the palce where everyone will shoot at you 08:56:46 wait 08:56:50 do centaurs not know how to kill toadstools 08:56:55 fucking lmao 08:57:07 oh 08:57:09 aha 08:57:12 did the toadstool die 08:57:14 yes 08:57:27 why are you resting so close to the place anyway 08:57:32 why not give yourself more cover 08:57:35 to heal quickly you should eat corpses 08:57:38 if there are any left 08:57:51 oh cool 08:57:53 eating as a ghoul restores hp 08:58:01 Patashu: never played ghouls? 08:58:05 nope 08:58:08 haven't played most races still 08:58:22 What game are you talking abot? 08:58:23 about* 08:58:31 dungeon crawl stone soup 08:58:40 is that it 08:58:42 hmm 08:59:15 lol 08:59:17 note to self glaive 08:59:51 sure 08:59:51 euhhh 08:59:52 walk towards everything 08:59:58 how long would it take me to retreat 08:59:58 :D 09:00:05 I'd retreat 09:00:08 four orc warriors at once = bleugh 09:00:13 and looks like there's more shit behind it 09:00:24 you have digging charges right? 09:00:25 retreat or greater servant 09:00:27 why not zap digging downwards and hide 09:00:45 why not zap digging upwards, yum 09:00:52 its 09:00:53 orcish:4 09:00:56 what's below orcish:4 09:00:58 monqy: greater servant 09:00:59 dude 09:01:01 IM ASHE 09:01:03 by downwards I mean 09:01:03 south 09:01:13 Patashu: dude 09:01:14 this isn't nethack 09:01:16 Patashu: it's stone 09:01:19 it is? 09:01:21 how do you tell 09:01:23 i thought you were making a nethack joke 09:01:25 the colour man 09:01:28 oh 09:01:42 would fireball help 09:01:48 or uh 09:01:49 running 09:01:56 what about levitation 09:01:59 could i levitate over the walls 09:03:06 :( 09:03:40 monqy: :'( 09:03:43 why can't you run, again? 09:03:47 uhhh 09:03:49 because that's a lot of steps 09:03:50 you can't leve over walls 09:03:52 and they have ranged weapons 09:03:59 i mean i could 09:04:01 lev would only help with that wayer 09:04:01 that was one of my options 09:04:08 alright, retreat to deep water? 09:04:10 you'd be able to cut a corner 09:04:12 sure 09:04:15 then lev over the water? ok 09:04:25 then of course get off of the dep water 09:04:29 so you don't drown 09:04:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:05:00 what a mess 09:05:22 lmao 09:05:23 thanks orc 09:06:51 success 09:07:00 eh 09:07:03 i think i'll buy the two heal wounds 09:07:04 because 09:07:08 i never find any 09:07:10 hela wounds is good to buy 09:07:13 speed isn't bad to buy either 09:07:15 hella wounds 09:07:47 Patashu: the speed's a bit pricey 09:08:00 see what's in the other stores, then 09:08:29 f - the cursed -2,-3 mace "Othri" {slay orc, rC+ rN+ Int+1} 243 gold 09:08:32 cursed -2,-3 mace? 09:08:33 tell me more 09:08:39 243 gold 09:08:41 clearly a bargain 09:08:54 could do with tele 09:09:24 the grimoire of the rocks and good luck 09:09:27 what kind of a title is that 09:09:36 grim. 09:09:48 suits me 09:09:49 elliott: see {good names[14]} 09:10:05 10:09 good names[14/18]: Sif Muna's Arcane Secrets of Secret Knowledge {god gift} 09:10:05 :D 09:10:08 then again it's good luck 09:10:27 so contradiction in my interpretation 09:10:33 no autoexplore no 09:10:46 there was also a book of Burning Companions or somethingoroher but it got deleted :( 09:10:57 woop woop 09:11:04 ahhh, warlorde 09:11:07 i really need a 09:11:10 wand of huge explosion 09:11:13 for situations like this 09:11:14 makhleb 09:11:17 :( 09:11:17 i read that book. 09:11:20 can i convert 09:11:22 what's ashey's wrath like 09:11:24 oh 09:11:25 an orc warlord 09:11:25 dunno 09:11:27 don't fight it 09:11:33 just leave orc and go do lair 09:11:38 Patashu: hydrae 09:11:44 ok uhhh 09:11:44 orc warlords are harder 09:11:47 leaving sounds difficult 09:11:49 elliott: just let this be a learning experience 09:12:00 monqy: are you saying "just be ok with dyin" 09:12:01 *dying 09:12:06 don't die 09:12:09 don't fight it 09:12:12 speed might be useful 09:12:15 run away 09:12:16 to 09:12:18 get away 09:12:29 you'll only have to worry about the warg 09:12:32 and they're weak anyway right 09:12:52 frenzied eh 09:13:03 warlords do that 09:13:05 dunno what it means 09:13:50 wait 09:13:53 ugh 09:13:56 that was the wrong downstair 09:14:17 i have tele 09:14:22 or are orc warlords too hard for that 09:14:33 elliott: bend space 09:14:37 lol 09:14:39 I CAN'T BEND SPACE 09:14:41 FUCK YOU 09:14:43 :D 09:14:51 ashe reasons: you want to die 09:14:56 im helping u appreciate the gods you aren't with 09:15:07 slouch slouch slouche step from time uhhh 09:15:08 can i confuse the warlord maybe?? 09:15:09 and then 09:15:11 run?? 09:15:15 warlorde doesnt like being confused 09:15:18 here's a tip 09:15:19 why not step 09:15:21 awauy from the warlord 09:15:23 10:15 orc warlord (o) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 15 | HP: 88-141 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 32 | Res: magic(60) | Chunks: contam | XP: 2257. 09:15:25 then read tele or whatever you were going to do 09:15:25 dam 32? 09:15:27 that's not 09:15:27 so bad 09:15:29 the hp is though 09:15:35 i mean that's less than the hydrae were doing 09:15:36 it also has a wepon 09:15:38 oh 09:15:45 and it's not spread out over multiple hits 09:15:45 and it's 32 dam in one attack 09:15:47 so it pierces ac well 09:15:48 Patashu: there's not really an "away" 09:15:51 sure there is 09:15:54 step south twice 09:16:03 now you're only slightly mauled 09:16:11 uhuhhh 09:16:12 wow 09:16:13 what are you doing ? 09:16:18 trying to 09:16:20 get to the upstair 09:16:22 badly 09:16:26 m hm 09:16:29 heal 09:16:30 wounds?? 09:16:32 sure 09:16:44 haha jesus 09:16:45 nice hp 09:16:52 so 09:16:53 how do you like orc 09:17:04 maybe you can handle a hydra now 09:17:15 i think im going to 09:17:16 switch to plate 09:17:19 even if ashe will be sad 09:17:23 AC 21, EV 7 09:17:40 why did you uncurse the helmet too 09:17:41 lol 09:17:44 Patashu: didn't have a choice 09:17:46 i think 09:17:47 yes you do 09:17:48 hit escape 09:17:49 oh 09:17:51 "oh well" 09:17:54 why do you think the scrolls ask you under ash 09:18:28 oh uh 09:18:33 monqy: i was gonna do lair right 09:18:39 you were going to plate 09:18:42 i did 09:18:45 oh 09:18:45 it decreased my AC by one 09:18:48 and my EV by one 09:18:50 yaey 09:18:55 i gotta enchant it 09:19:02 nah just get a better plat 09:19:04 or better yet 09:19:07 gda 09:19:21 or cpa 09:19:39 well 09:19:43 where do i get those 09:20:05 goldon draggins and floor, respectively 09:20:16 alternatively: acquirement, possibly from xom/oka/geneicard 09:20:23 anyway 09:20:23 I'm going to make an unrandart armour with 53 base AC 09:20:25 lair before D:13? 09:20:26 but it slows and +muts you 09:20:27 or something 09:20:46 armour where you can't take any damage but you die immediately 09:20:47 Patashu: ghoul of chei "unstoppable wrecking machine" 09:20:58 elliott: well some things pierce gda 09:21:00 *gdr 09:21:09 so it'd be funny when you suddenly got murdered by hellfire or af_cold or whatever it was 09:21:33 ok now im actually laughing in real life at monqy's chei jokes 09:21:35 what have i become 09:22:02 don't stop now 09:22:05 there are crawls to be crawled 09:22:06 i guess ill D:13 09:22:07 and then lair 09:22:46 ooo, a hydra 09:22:46 :D 09:22:48 HYDRAE 09:22:48 EVERYWHERE 09:22:50 also 09:22:52 why are hill giants yellow 09:22:57 i'm still fucking scared of hill giants 09:23:04 optimal danger calculation algorithm 09:23:05 hill giants probably aren't so bad by now 09:23:34 btw 09:23:35 hydras 09:23:35 hydrae otoh 09:23:36 cannot open doors 09:23:40 seriously? 09:23:45 hill giants can 09:23:50 Patashu: ("hydras" honestly) 09:23:52 hydra (D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | Int: insect | HD: 13 | HP: 54-91 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | Fl: amphibious, regen | Res: magic(52), poison, drown | Chunks: poison+contam | XP: 1215. 09:23:53 so can centaurs 09:23:56 insect intelligence 09:23:57 but not worker ants 09:23:58 just fyi 09:24:19 Patashu: iknow 09:24:22 *i know 09:24:24 oh wait 09:24:27 there's a centaur too 09:24:31 wow it's a party of monsters i hate 09:24:34 plus a worker ant 09:24:47 duck behind the corner 09:24:58 yat 09:25:00 lol 09:25:03 situation diffused 09:25:04 excellent 09:25:06 by a dour 09:25:11 yaey, dour 09:25:19 i'll just 09:25:20 keep exploring then 09:25:26 btw, brogue's doors are better than crawl's doors 09:25:29 oh wait 09:25:29 i bet 09:25:31 if i press o 09:25:32 you can use them to own the shit out of brogue centaurs, pixies, etc 09:25:32 autoexplore into dour, a party in a dour 09:25:33 yes 09:25:34 i'll walk up to that door and open it 09:25:40 yes 09:25:41 uhh 09:25:42 exclusion zones 09:25:42 make an exclusion 09:25:44 yes 09:25:57 good 09:26:24 ugh pack is full 09:26:36 you're never going to use those 12 arrows of dispersal 09:26:37 for a start 09:26:40 will anything pick up those arrows of dispersal 09:26:43 that's the only reason i have them 09:26:46 so other things don't 09:26:50 i had a "bad experience" 09:26:54 lol 09:27:03 you should drop them on some level you've already cleared then 09:27:04 or in like 09:27:05 temple/lair 09:27:07 anyway 09:27:12 also, drop scrolls of enchant weapon 09:27:15 you can't enchant your hands 09:27:16 yeah i was going to 09:27:43 you're not very bound 09:27:47 probably explains the low piett 09:27:49 i guess i can drop this 5-zaps wand of consuion 09:27:51 monqy: i KNOW 09:27:55 i don't have anything to do the binding with ok 09:29:10 great, that dragon burns scrolls 09:29:12 uhhh 09:29:15 if i drop them will they be ok 09:29:43 yes 09:30:05 it only burns scrolls in your inventory 09:30:07 because physics 09:30:10 (brogue is far more realistic) 09:30:22 im glow 09:30:22 and also 09:30:24 liquid flame 09:30:25 *flam 09:30:27 brogue is the other way around isn't it 09:30:32 burns floor but not inventory 09:30:33 You are covered in liquid flames! 09:30:33 Your scroll of detect curse catches fire! 09:30:33 One of your 2 scrolls of amnesia catches fire! 09:30:35 hmm 09:30:35 uhhh 09:30:36 I think so yeah 09:30:38 ???? 09:30:46 lol 09:30:50 no 09:30:52 don't stop dropping stuff!! 09:30:53 it takes multiple turns to drop multiple things 09:30:55 how do i force it to drop stuff 09:30:55 lol 09:31:01 it takes 1 turn per stack 09:31:02 no matter what 09:31:09 Patashu: best thing in brogue: monkey steals scroll, incendiary dart monkey, monkey dies, scroll burns 09:31:13 so you should start with stuff you value most 09:31:20 monqy: that happened to me once except with staff of firebolt 09:31:28 ah yes those too 09:31:47 I always forget not to burn monkeys before making sure they didn't steal a scroll 09:32:19 ugh 09:32:22 how do i get more carrying capacity 09:32:35 drop shit you're never going to use 09:32:36 more str 09:32:56 Patashu: packrat 09:33:19 ahhh, we meet again 09:33:29 packrat == "I don't know how valuable any of this is so I'm going to keep ALL OF IT" 09:33:30 im gonna 09:33:33 melee the hydra 09:33:37 yell at me if it's a terrible idea monqy 09:33:37 cool 09:33:38 have fun 09:33:38 you;ll want 27 str for gda, or what is it 24str for cpa? 09:33:42 uhh what are you doing 09:33:44 24 for cpa yes 09:33:46 there's 09:33:46 what hydra is this 09:33:47 hydra 09:33:49 the 09:33:50 ah, 6header 09:33:50 6 head one 09:33:54 soften it up with wands first, at least 09:33:59 and put on your gloves etc etc 09:34:04 oh wait they can't open doors 09:34:05 uhhh 09:34:18 monqy i 09:34:20 uhh 09:34:21 can't really soften it up 09:34:22 what did you do 09:34:24 well 09:34:25 see 09:34:26 lol 09:34:28 it was packed behind a door 09:34:29 with a worker ant 09:34:31 so i opened the door 09:34:33 killed the ant and uhhh 09:34:39 did you 09:34:42 elliott: Did you ever figure out cofree? 09:34:42 put your gloves on 09:34:45 no 09:34:50 don't hit the hydra 09:34:58 i wasn't going to 09:34:58 it'll grow more heads 09:35:02 i know 09:35:08 monqy: can i hit the hydra 09:35:12 shachaf: yes 09:35:18 will it grow 09:35:21 mayb 09:35:33 monqy: ok how about i 09:35:34 monqy: you mean 'maybe'. learne to spelle 09:35:35 put on my gloves 09:35:39 and then uhhhh 09:35:41 hit it 09:35:43 with my gloves 09:35:45 until it dies 09:35:50 it took me years to develop this plan 09:36:12 elliott: have fun if it fails 09:36:20 so far so good 09:36:28 viktore 09:36:29 brave 09:36:33 brave, stupid 09:36:35 little difference 09:36:36 yes 09:36:41 hi, hill giant 09:36:45 wow 09:36:47 s/ $// 09:36:51 i feel strong 09:37:00 oh no 09:37:00 elliott: WAS THERE A SPACE AT THE END OF YOUR SENTENCE 09:37:03 i've learned my lessons you bastards 09:37:05 I can't tell. :-( 09:37:11 don't let them merge and don't let them surround you 09:37:16 how do i stop them merging 09:37:23 don't let them touch each other 09:37:26 oops 09:37:29 monqy: I think those are mutually exclusie 09:37:57 anyway 09:38:04 in my experience they only merge if they want to get closer to you but can't 09:38:11 so it's better to get surrounded by them 09:38:27 getting surrounded lets ac apply more 09:38:33 yeah 09:38:44 hey 09:38:47 it's like you're in the lair already 09:38:49 large slime creatures aren't so bad, but watch out for titanics 09:38:49 :') 09:38:50 :D 09:38:52 hydras, hippogriffs and frogs 09:38:59 they just want to make me feel at home 09:39:03 I died by tabbing a titanic once 09:39:05 ok i gotta know 09:39:08 how come 09:39:15 my high score is 09:39:17 08:03 146. elliott the Impaler (L15 DsAK), worshipper of Lugonu, blasted by Aizul (poison arrow) on D:17 on 2012-04-26, with 84580 points after 43254 turns and 3:34:58. 09:39:18 look at the turn count 09:39:24 and look at the turn count on my game 09:39:30 what about it 09:39:31 howe do you figure out your highe score 09:39:32 well 09:39:41 what kind of fast turn frenzy happened in my highscore game 09:39:47 also how can i see my score or can't I 09:40:17 @ ? 09:40:20 % ? 09:40:25 Something like that. 09:40:28 did you do orc in that dsak game 09:40:38 you have scorede 0 out of a hundrede possible points 09:40:43 idk 09:40:43 you have reached the rank of Novice 09:40:44 i don't think so 09:40:47 oh wait 09:40:49 maybe i did and it was that 09:40:51 fun time 09:40:52 with the 09:40:53 banishing 09:40:55 yeah it was 09:41:49 wh 09:42:40 spider spider 09:42:45 oh no 09:42:46 i said i'd 09:42:47 go 09:42:47 didn't i 09:42:53 spider is fun 09:42:53 because 09:42:55 you have rpois 09:43:10 the thing about spider is 09:43:13 eeeverything is faster than you 09:43:19 so you want to kite back as much as opssible 09:43:40 orb spiders, Patashu 09:43:42 is spider harder than orc 09:43:52 demonic crawlers too uhh 09:44:03 elliott: why not try it and see!! 09:44:05 no 09:44:06 i don't want to die 09:44:09 do all of lair 09:44:10 spider spider 09:44:11 before thinking about runes 09:44:12 i'm super-invested in this character 09:44:13 spider spider spider 09:44:16 oh it has a rune??? 09:44:18 yes 09:44:21 does that mean it gets me closer to winning 09:44:23 yes 09:44:26 ok but yeah i'm gonna do lair first sorry 09:44:29 ok 09:44:34 elliott, you got a Rune/ 09:44:36 you'll want to do spider eventually 09:44:37 no 09:44:39 You need 3 runes 09:44:42 i know 09:44:43 it's just a matter of when 09:44:59 some people save getting runes until right before zot but 09:45:02 imo that's boring 09:45:08 runes do absolutely nothing for you 09:45:11 until you're ready to win 09:45:12 so 09:45:14 but 09:45:26 diving rune branches right before winning is: boring 09:45:27 whereas: 09:45:33 doing them early is: fun 09:45:38 if you hate being bored, do branchless 09:45:39 fun fun fun 09:45:44 ha-ha 09:45:50 i tried that once 09:45:56 had hunger problems, rip 09:46:04 as a branchless character 09:46:05 let loose the dogs of etc. 09:46:06 do you go for hell or pan runes 09:46:10 they both sound hard 09:46:19 maybe pan, and use cblink/ctele? 09:46:21 oh *let slip 09:47:02 ohhh boy 09:47:06 ohhhhhhh boy 09:47:11 haha 09:47:12 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy 09:47:13 oh? 09:47:16 blink frogs 09:47:18 oh. 09:47:19 get to a chokepoint? 09:47:22 that is not a chokepoint 09:47:24 that is 09:47:26 it's a 09:47:26 thx 09:47:28 pseudo chokepoint 09:47:32 it's choker than that 09:47:34 wtf 09:47:35 wow what are you doing 09:47:37 choke 09:47:41 ok 09:47:42 the one you were in was ok 09:47:43 but 09:47:44 ok 09:47:45 it was 09:47:48 better than this 09:47:48 sorry i'm not very good at this game 09:47:51 np 09:47:57 so long as you don't die 09:48:04 or if you do die and learn from this 09:48:05 anything can happen 09:48:23 i'm done with the whole 09:48:25 dying and learning from it thing 09:48:33 i want to wiiin 09:48:50 this character will live forever! 09:50:34 ahh, death yaks. 09:50:42 SURE WOULD BE NICE IF I WAS WITH A GOD THAT GAVE ME USEFUL SHIT FOR FIGHTING RIGHT NOW 09:50:59 monqy: can i take one down in melee, i forget 09:51:06 you can 09:51:06 10:50 death yak (Y) | Spd: 10 | Int: animal | HD: 14 | HP: 57-95 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | Res: magic(93) | Chunks: poison+contam | XP: 1059. 09:51:08 that doesn't look so bad 09:51:34 why do death yaks have such high MR 09:51:38 death 09:51:49 design goals for death yaks: kill 09:51:54 elliott: apparently ashe wrath ends after you gain 2 exp levels, so if you abandon ashe you want to do it soon so it'l end soon " i guess" 09:52:02 elliott: of course if you don't want to abandon ahse thats ok too 09:52:14 I wouldn't abandon ash 09:52:16 why did you second ais' recommendation of ashe i mean honestly 09:52:20 i'm not going to abandon him but 09:52:26 also, ash would be good 09:52:26 if 09:52:27 you bound 09:52:27 your shit 09:52:29 i would appreciate summon powerful shit more than 09:52:33 "see invisible things" 09:52:37 Patashu: how 09:52:41 pray over the scrolls of remove curse 09:52:41 i haven't been like 09:52:42 drop them and pray 09:52:48 i have scrolls of remove curse??? 09:52:53 huh 09:52:53 3 of them 09:53:19 there you go 09:53:45 scry! 09:53:45 finally 09:53:48 amazeing 09:53:48 only took you until xl13 09:53:51 wow look at my piety 09:53:55 ashey really likes bondage 09:54:23 i guess you can still be pious inspite of cursing your god 09:54:32 hmmm 09:54:48 ok reading those scrolls should be safe 09:54:50 also, ash gives clarity 09:54:52 *that 09:54:53 which is really really good 09:55:05 also, there aren't many bad scrolls 09:55:07 esp. if you worship ash 09:55:10 slime 09:55:14 do slime dead last 09:55:15 sucks 09:55:35 slime is usually avoided on 3runers 09:55:40 how can i superscroll through inventory 09:55:41 also that 09:55:43 its so slow 09:55:48 pageups/downs/spacebar 09:55:52 thans 09:55:53 *thanks 09:55:54 btw i still have a box of beasts i'm planning to use on zot:5 09:56:00 mark my words 09:56:16 rrrrrr 09:57:05 oh right i'm wearing my 09:57:07 helmet of smarts 09:57:28 sigh 09:57:31 gllooooves 09:57:39 -!- itidus21 has joined. 09:57:40 draining? 09:57:45 whatever you want 09:57:57 haha 09:58:07 asshole 09:58:08 fungussss 09:58:12 go find him 09:58:14 and finish him off 09:58:15 hydra regenerayts h pquickly 09:58:21 its probably at fulkl health by now 09:58:33 haha 09:58:34 @tell itidus20 elliott still has a box of beasts to use on zot:5 09:58:34 Consider it noted. 09:58:59 distant snort? 09:59:01 yay 09:59:03 labyrinth 09:59:07 10:58 kober (L14 KoBe) entered a Bailey. (Bailey) 09:59:10 monqy: help i thought baileys were gone 09:59:17 what are you talking about 09:59:20 baileys still exist 09:59:23 10:59 labyrinth[1/5]: Look for a cyan \ (or arch depending on your character set) on a level where you hear an "ancient clock" or "distant snort". (1-in-15 chance per level, once per game). Hurry, it times out after a while (you get urgent-sounding messages). Note that magic mapping is likely to show where the lab entrance is; however, it may appear to be a shop. 09:59:26 monqy said baileys were removed 09:59:29 wtf 09:59:31 baileys own 09:59:33 why would you take them out 09:59:36 also, thx ash 09:59:38 where they are 09:59:40 *at 09:59:50 go check one of them out 10:00:06 no 10:00:10 i didnt say they were removed 10:00:11 10:59 labyrinth[3/5]: No monster generation (you might find a few hungry ghosts, though); the major dangers are starvation (expect to use a ration or two) and the minotaur (hits for 35+20, so have awesome AC|offense or a powerful ranged attack). If you have a decent amount of food, and don't have teleportitis it's usually safe to explore. 10:00:14 this thing sounds super boring 10:00:17 i said that you missed one 10:00:18 wait so 10:00:21 labyrinth is awufl 10:00:24 dont do laby 10:00:24 can autoexplore do the labyrinth for me 10:00:26 ok 10:00:27 no 10:00:29 ok well 10:00:31 fuck that because 10:00:33 i'm terrible at mazes 10:00:34 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:00:49 ice cave!! 10:00:50 noooooo fuck elephants 10:00:53 it's like a cold volcano 10:00:55 ice cave 10:00:55 :D 10:00:56 wait 10:01:01 the game is seriously making you pick between lab and ice cave 10:01:01 ??? 10:01:27 lol you are 10:01:29 pretty surrounded 10:01:31 hi 10:01:41 kill the elephants 10:01:42 they hit harder 10:01:56 ok 10:02:05 is this ice cave 10:02:06 i have 10:02:07 yes 10:02:07 a ring of ice 10:02:08 heal first 10:02:09 for the purpose 10:02:09 oh wait 10:02:11 and yes you do 10:02:13 cursed jewellrey 10:02:14 because 10:02:15 of Patashu 10:02:16 you're only partially bound 10:02:16 right? 10:02:21 see 10:02:22 fine 10:02:25 whoops 10:02:26 mistyped 10:02:27 lol 10:02:31 I love doing that 10:02:32 eeeeh 10:02:46 monqy: is ice cave fun 10:02:49 very 10:02:50 sure! 10:02:51 do it do it 10:02:52 hey i'm almost xl14 10:02:53 better than volcano 10:02:57 hmm 10:02:59 which one is this 10:03:03 this one 10:03:04 oh, this one 10:03:05 yeah 10:03:10 haha 10:03:14 h 10:03:14 elp 10:03:27 get out of the ice statues' fovs 10:03:28 `? ice cave 10:03:29 first 10:03:37 ice cave? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:03:49 also, you should probably drop all your potions 10:03:49 yeah 10:03:52 forgot 10:04:04 drop all your potions next to the exit 10:04:27 so what's with the statues 10:04:36 do you have any wands of disintegration? 10:04:49 no 10:04:51 ice statue (8) | Spd: 16 | Int: high | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Fl: non-living, !sil | Res: magic(immune), cold+++, elec++, poison, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | Vul: fire | XP: 685 | Sp: b.cold (3d16), throw icicle (3d16), freezing cloud (2d17), ice beast. 10:05:19 you can probably just melee them but be ready to back up 10:05:22 they won't regen since they're statues 10:05:40 -!- derdon has joined. 10:05:46 lol 10:05:50 they think they're musus 10:06:00 what's with the exclusion 10:06:03 statues 10:06:16 Marking area around the ice statue as unsafe for travelling. x2 10:06:17 no 10:06:17 come on 10:06:18 don't do that 10:06:42 wow, I didn't know the game places the exclsuions if you lift them 10:06:43 (thanks game) 10:07:05 good place to use scrying btw 10:07:19 bears 10:07:22 except made of ice 10:08:18 is necromancer scary 10:08:28 necromancer (@) | Spd: 10 | Int: high (items) | HD: 10 | HP: 26-53 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | Fl: evil, spellcaster | Res: magic(53) | Vul: holy | Chunks: contam | XP: 594 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), b.draining (3d15), animate dead, simulacrum / b.fire (3d18), pain (d13), invisibility, animate dead. 10:08:37 hmm 10:08:37 so, no 10:08:38 take off the ring of ice 10:08:40 first 10:08:41 why 10:08:41 then beat it up 10:08:44 might use bolt of fire 10:08:46 ok 10:08:47 -> you have rf- 10:09:00 lol 10:09:03 turns out it didn't 10:09:13 oooh 10:09:16 yes plz 10:09:29 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:09:43 monqy: did you see my NEW PLATE ARMOUR!! 10:09:47 is it rC 10:09:51 no :( 10:09:53 it's positive energy 10:09:53 but it's +1a 10:09:56 and i can enchant it 10:09:57 *-a 10:10:15 it won't be your end game armoure 10:10:16 btw, why did you curse your splint instead of your helm or cloak 10:10:25 you';ll want something with resistances 10:10:36 like GDA, or at least plate of rF, which i think you have in shope 10:10:46 (or was that game died) 10:10:47 plate of rf would be good for zot 10:10:57 Patashu: might find gda on v8 first! 10:10:59 monqy: i didn't say end game!! but 10:11:04 better than splint mail 10:11:10 plate armour gives gdr right 10:11:22 39.6% gdr 10:11:22 nope, it's cold resistance i have in shope 10:11:23 iirc 10:11:36 plate of mr would be good too 10:12:17 all the traps 10:12:19 remind me of like 10:12:20 angband vaults 10:12:35 pick up your potions on the way out 10:12:38 or you'll be sorry 10:12:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:12:47 quick 10:12:50 you can still do the lab 10:12:51 ahahahaha 10:12:52 no 10:12:54 hi, hydra 10:12:56 i'm not doing lab btw 10:12:56 because 10:12:57 seriously 10:12:57 it vibrated away 10:12:58 i am 10:13:00 the worst at mazes 10:13:02 oh 10:13:03 oh well 10:13:05 labys suck 10:13:06 dont do 10:13:12 ok so 10:13:13 hydra time 10:13:38 nice 10:13:46 akdjhasdklhfdkshfdkjf 10:13:56 what did you do i wasnt watching 10:13:57 i didn't even get a new high score 10:13:59 monqy: hydra 10:14:00 tv it if you want 10:14:04 was it special 10:14:07 it was 10:14:10 especially stupid 10:14:10 Hmm, the Arch fortune database must include the sex part of -off by default. 10:14:18 * Phantom_Hoover is just thankful it left out the racist ones. 10:15:31 that was close to max damage the hydra could have gone, given your gdr 10:15:33 *done 10:15:43 oh 10:15:44 no 10:15:46 no, max damage would have been 75 10:15:47 i didn't switch armour yet 10:15:49 i was still splint 10:15:50 oh 10:15:51 right 10:15:51 splint 10:17:03 oh well 10:17:07 i feel like i'm getting better 10:17:16 and that was YASD that i should have seen coming 10:17:27 otoh i don't remember the 8-headed hydra hitting that hard 10:18:19 a hydra can hit for up to 18*(1-gdr)*number of heads on any turn 10:18:21 11:17 Oh crap. Spiders made it as an official rune branch now ... Nasty. 10:18:25 it's just that they tend NOT to 10:18:28 monqy: you should totally play!!!!!!! 10:18:43 ugh i want to sleep 10:19:02 that's why it'd be extra fun 10:19:03 @time monqy 10:19:03 the only reason i'm still awake is i have to read these papers for tomorrow 10:19:07 Local time for monqy is Wed May 2 03:19:04 2012 10:20:08 monqy: you should dive. you love diving! 10:20:21 can io dive and read at ther same time 10:20:27 yes 10:20:30 swim reading 10:21:26 monqy: it's an art 10:21:47 i'll dive once then go back to reading 10:22:04 (starting now) 10:22:22 Patashu: watche 10:22:39 schinink vun 10:22:41 watch what 10:22:44 Patashu: squarelos 10:22:44 CDO 10:22:49 oh sure 10:22:51 why, what's he doing 10:22:54 diving 10:23:10 what's the goal, here 10:23:14 stay at xl1 and get as deep as possible? 10:23:19 i don't think monqy has a goal 10:23:20 monqy just does 10:23:28 rip monqy 10:23:32 lol 10:23:36 kobold with a whip of electruction 10:23:37 back to reading 10:23:38 welcome to crawl 10:23:42 -!- cheater has joined. 10:26:00 sup duddes and duddettes 10:28:35 monqy: is there a way to get like 10:28:38 my top N games froms equell 10:29:10 ddepends on what you mean by way, get, top 10:29:24 way: method 10:29:26 get: retrieve 10:29:32 top: ordered by descending score 10:29:38 !hs * 10:29:39 !hs * -2 10:29:40 !hs * -3 10:29:41 etc 10:29:43 is one way 10:30:08 there are other ways too if there's something specific you want from each game like 10:30:24 oh wait I don't know if you can do s=sc ugh 10:30:28 woops oh well 10:30:37 i forget how to do it any other ways 10:31:01 of 10:31:02 my games 10:31:03 not 10:31:04 everyone's 10:31:08 oh 10:31:10 !hs 10:31:10 . for * yeah 10:31:11 !hs -2 10:31:12 !hs -3 10:31:13 right 10:31:16 or . for * 10:31:36 11:31 !hs 10:31:36 11:31 147. elliott the Impaler (L15 DsAK), worshipper of Lugonu, blasted by Aizul (poison arrow) on D:17 on 2012-04-26, with 84580 points after 43254 turns and 3:34:58. 10:31:36 11:31 !hs -2 10:31:37 11:31 146. elliott the Brawler (L14 GhMo), worshipper of Ashenzari, slain by a seven-headed hydra in Lair:7 on 2012-05-02, with 45580 points after 33481 turns and 4:00:03. 10:31:39 11:31 !hs -3 10:31:41 11:31 145. elliott the Swashbuckler (L12 KoBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a yak on D:12 on 2012-04-22, with 16802 points after 17648 turns and 2:04:04. 10:31:43 11:31 !hs -4 10:31:45 11:31 144. elliott the Grappler (L11 GhMo), worshipper of Makhleb, blasted by Harold (bolt of fire) in D:11 on 2012-04-30, with 10182 points after 11624 turns and 1:19:43. 10:31:47 "my games" 10:31:51 im not very good at crawl 10:32:41 you were better than you were the last time I saw you play 10:32:53 some day you'll have a mind shattering revelation and be like 10:32:53 wow 10:32:58 that's how you play crawl 10:32:59 and then 10:33:01 beaten ez 10:34:29 i know how to play crawl you just 10:34:40 hit things but mostly run away 10:34:42 and that's it 10:34:56 it's just too boring for me to play it that way, so I have to optimise a strategy that involves less running away instead 10:35:37 maybe you should worship chei 10:35:44 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:35:50 monqy: ha 10:35:52 when you worship chei 10:35:54 you CAN'T run 10:35:59 it's like admitting you're bad 10:36:05 worship chei do it do it do it 10:36:26 when a problem comes along 10:36:29 you must slouch it 10:36:33 slouch it good 10:36:35 into shape 10:36:40 I forget the rest of the lyrics 10:36:51 maybe ill go ghck and abandon xom for chei if i'm feeling particularly stupid one day 10:36:55 practice for my feck of chei run 10:37:05 lol 10:37:58 you laugh 10:38:08 -!- cheater has joined. 10:38:10 but you won't laugh when help, Felid Chaos Knight of Cheibriados, ascends to victory 10:38:45 xom wrath is the same as worshipping xom, right 10:38:51 I've "won" a febe of chei before 10:39:06 converted on the way up? 10:39:15 died to trog wrath 10:39:16 Patashu: yes, as I understand it 10:39:23 11:39 xom wrath[1/1]: Abandonment: 50 penance, Xom acts. Retribution: Xom acts. (On average, this is worse than just worshipping Xom; but the worst case is the same, so if you are prepared to deal with Happy Xom you should be fine with Mad Xom) 10:39:46 xom wrath is less frequent than xom worship too isn't it 10:40:25 monqy: i came up with a more extreme (and less possible) version of my all-god run goal 10:40:31 so that nobody else can steal it from me by doing it 10:40:44 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:40:56 you have to go through every god, and must, for at least one turn, have the wrath of every single god (except the one you're on) active 10:40:57 /but/ 10:41:02 you're not allowed to switch gods until you reach full piety 10:41:11 god-pleasing-and-abandoning speedrun 10:41:29 i know 10:41:30 i'm a genius 10:42:24 monqy's silence is a silence of awe 10:43:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:45:06 basking in the awe 10:45:13 mmmm bask 10:46:37 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10407003/rotation-matrix-haskell 10:46:39 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10408471/rotation-matrix-pbmfile-haskell 10:46:41 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10412051/haskell-how-do-i-rotate-a-pbm-image-by-90 10:46:42 Ah, homework. 10:48:28 The third redirects to the first 10:48:39 Deewiant: Append ?noredirect=1. 10:48:42 Or log in to Stack Overflow. 10:48:51 Duplicates without answers are automatically redirected for anonymous users these days. 10:49:00 (The idea being that they don't really care about clicking a link to get the answer they want.) 10:49:12 Spoiler: it's the same question. 10:54:13 -!- Gregor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:52 @time monqy 10:55:54 Local time for monqy is Wed May 2 03:55:53 2012 10:56:45 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:01:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:06:22 @tell monqy i swear i have seen the foreground in eliot.png somewhere else before help 11:06:23 Consider it noted. 11:12:49 -!- Gregor has joined. 11:15:34 hi Gregor 11:15:35 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 11:16:54 elliott: eliot.png == http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj299/sonic_jctheking/ELIOT.png right? (I asked Google.) 11:17:05 Yes, absolutely. 11:17:19 08:05:37: Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 11:23:25 fizzie: THANKS YOU'RE WELCOME. 11:27:55 fizzie: That image was pretty awesome. 11:28:00 THANK’S 11:28:02 YOUR WELCOME 11:32:19 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:34 -!- elliott has joined. 11:39:26 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 11:39:43 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:56:33 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:57:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:59:42 -!- elliott has joined. 12:13:24 ion: Did you sleep? 12:14:55 elliott: Not yet, a friend came to visit. 12:15:01 @time ion 12:15:02 Local time for ion is Wed May 2 15:15:02 2012 12:15:09 It's hopeless now. 12:15:54 Maybe I should play again. Roguelikes are addictive. 12:30:34 ion: Do you have IPv6? 12:31:03 ♥ Avishai Cohen – Dreaming http://open.spotify.com/track/7uPARjX8n4Sf4ndZ9alTxk live: http://youtu.be/yII_XhK5khw 12:31:09 elliott: Yeah 12:31:25 ion: Does esolangs.org have an AAAA record for you? 12:31:56 esolangs.org.86400INAAAA2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd 12:32:13 esolangs.org. 86400 IN AAAA 2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd 12:32:26 Thanks. Do you get connected via IPv6 when going to http://esolangs.org/, if you can check that? 12:33:12 Oh, I suppose I can check from server logs. 12:33:36 Seems to work. 12:33:42 2001:0:c38c:c38c:3886:4813:ac6e:121f - - [02/May/2012:12:33:30 +0000] "GET /wiki/Main_Page HTTP/1.1" 200 18627 "-" "curl/7.22.0 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.22.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1 zlib/1.2.3.4 libidn/1.23 librtmp/2.3" 12:33:43 Yay. 12:33:53 (What about with a regular browser? I don't know if they do anything weird with IPv6.) 12:34:20 Mine might prefer IPv4 since the IPv6 connection is just a Teredo tunnel. I wonder how to override that? 12:34:30 Well, that's what I'm interested in :P 12:34:32 What's your IPv4 IP? 12:35:33 83.145.237.224 - - [02/May/2012:12:35:21 +0000] "GET /.ipv4.sixxs.org HTTP/1.1" 404 142 "http://www.sixxs.net/tools/gateway/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0" 12:35:34 wat 12:35:36 http://esolangs.org.ipv4.sixxs.org/ 12:35:39 Works 12:36:00 Ah, cool. 12:36:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:38 ion: Thanks. 12:37:09 * elliott wonders how to find out what DNS server is being treated as authoritative for a domain. 12:37:17 I don't get an authority section back from "dig esolangs.org" here. 12:37:34 So I can't tell if the change has propagated here or not (since I don't know how to request AAAA records when on IPv4, or indeed if I can). 12:37:37 *I even can 12:37:43 dig +trace esolangs.org 12:38:00 might give some useful information 12:38:20 Ah, thanks, that works. 12:38:43 (Also, does http://esolangs.org/forum/ have messed up styling for you?) 12:39:54 I still get esolangs.org pointing at ns[1-4].afraid.org here at work. Based on the decrementing TTLs, it'll be correct after 6406 more seconds. 12:40:51 fizzie: How long do I have to wait before it's propagated to everywhere, theoretically? 12:41:23 Hmm, how odd. The styles end up messed up iff I enable JavaScript. 12:42:54 "dig @b0.org.afilias-nst.org esolangs.org ns" reports a TTL of 86400 seconds, i.e. a day. If it was that also before, theoretically it can take up to that long. 12:43:46 It happened 16 hours ago. I guess I'll hold off until it's 24 before posting on the community portal. 12:43:58 elliott: It does. And a bunch of spam. 12:44:16 ion: Yeah, I know about the spam, it's the styling I'm concerned about. 12:44:27 ion: Does it work if you click "Headline"? 12:44:39 It does for me. (And promptly breaks again if I select another style.) 12:46:24 elliott: Oh. Headline doesn’t change it, but i’m beginning to suspect it’s intended to look like that. 12:46:35 :D 12:46:43 By "messed up", I mean "as if the page had no styling at all". 12:46:53 If it's grey and orangey, that's right. 12:47:03 It had the “Headline” styling for me all the time. 12:47:10 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:47:40 Does selecting the other styles work? 12:47:45 yes 12:48:13 Hmm. 12:48:18 I bet it's a Safari thing. 12:49:04 Try clearing your cache. 12:51:12 * elliott tries it in Firefox. 12:51:17 Did you know Firefox sucks? 12:52:01 Yeah, it works fine in Firefox. 12:58:05 How to save the world: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17896081 13:02:01 Sounds like a good recipe for catching more hobbyist chili growers. 13:02:04 The BBC ain't perfect. 13:12:41 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:14:45 -!- augur has joined. 13:23:11 FFS, Flash has started crashing constantly. 13:25:07 that's expected behaviour for flash 13:25:19 It didn't used to be! 13:25:31 Funny how that always sounds way dumber in text. 13:25:32 it did used tod bed 13:25:56 I mean, in speech "it used to be" is perfectly normal, but... 13:26:19 *use to be 13:26:22 makes it sound a lot less dumb. 13:26:48 I’d like to hear from an authoritative source whether the erroneous-looking “didn’t used to be” is an exception to the rule or whether it should always be “didn’t use to be”. 13:33:44 ion: Have you ever met *America*? 13:34:05 * A m e r i c a * . 13:35:32 ion: W/ e/ l/ c/ o/ m/ e/ - t/ o/ - A/ m/ e/ r/ i/ c/ a/ . 13:35:43 XqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXqXq 13:37:43 Phantom_Hoover: Whe rei sthetw othous andan dthree I orde red? 13:40:14 The sitting girl represents PHP software, the spray represents SQL injections and the standing girl represents attackers from the Internet. http://i.imgur.com/SZjwe.jpg 13:41:14 ???s all round. 13:41:38 Haters gonna hate (and get their aims hecked). 13:47:03 ^rainbow Welcome to Phantom_Hoover! 13:47:03 Welcome to Phantom_Hoover! 13:54:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:54:20 That makes drinking and driving look so fun i’ll have to try it. http://youtu.be/tYMYv1zsAxE 13:55:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:20:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:33:59 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:35:19 -!- elliott has joined. 14:35:36 http://i.imgur.com/sxMlF.jpg 14:37:31 ion: i lolled 14:37:40 SPOOKY. 14:41:30 Someone #elsewhere didn’t get it and he keeps proving to us it’s the same person by linking Wikipedia etc. articles. And the rest of us on the channel disregard his lines and talk about how it’s probably the similar hairstyle and the eye color, and how they’d surely look almost like twin brothers if you photoshopped a similar beard to the Nirvana drummer’s photo. 14:42:06 :D 14:42:19 ion: The weirdest thing is how they both have the same name. 14:42:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:42:56 ion: you guys are best trolls 14:44:15 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:44:42 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:51:12 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:01:16 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:31:29 -!- augur has joined. 15:40:32 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:56:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:17:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:23:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:28:36 -!- augur has joined. 16:31:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 16:37:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:51:26 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:51:46 Hello 16:52:19 Had de ja vu when reading today's LMoO 16:52:50 This has happened a couple of times with CoaP too 17:02:08 -!- derdon has joined. 17:13:44 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: bbl). 17:21:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(Obama-Biden_campaign_slogan) 17:21:05 What a great article. 17:21:18 Especially that "Controversy" section. 17:24:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hopiakuta/_DonFphrnqTaub_Persina_juneteenth_2006_(_Oy_vey,_D._F._T._P._22_26,_18_June_2006_71.102.31.67_)_%7E%7E_%7E%7E This is good too. 17:27:37 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 17:37:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:42:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 17:59:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:03:11 -!- augur has joined. 18:11:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:11:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:12:54 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:12:57 Hello 18:15:32 hi 18:18:24 Ngevd: did you see the 18:18:25 new 18:18:26 esolange 18:18:36 (also monqy's self-portraits of me and shachaf) 18:18:39 "exciting esoteric happenings" 18:18:48 I did not 18:18:52 08:05:37: Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 18:19:19 Yay! 18:23:31 That's not eliot the hedgehog. 18:23:48 It's better. 18:36:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:36:43 hi oerjan 18:37:26 hi elliott 18:37:31 Hello oerjan 18:37:35 hi Ngevd 18:38:06 * elliott predicts oerjan will give up on logreading today. 18:38:37 * oerjan confirms he already did. 18:38:43 Then you missed 18:38:44 19:18 08:05:37: Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 18:38:45 ! 18:38:55 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: OUTSITE TIME). 18:39:53 * oerjan wonders if there's a common meme in these he doesn't know about. 18:39:55 -> 18:40:30 I think they're just weird 18:41:55 oerjan: they are monqy's self-portraits of shachaf and I. the former derives from my self-portrait of shachaf, http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag 18:42:25 (Which derives from http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png... but you've seen mine.) 18:45:22 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:45:24 Hello! 18:45:29 I'm back from OUTSIDE 18:45:39 how much crack 18:45:42 do you smoke 18:45:43 as a hamster 18:45:46 you were out for 18:45:50 7 minutes 18:46:07 The outside is a scary place 18:46:11 it's true 18:46:18 i'm asking how you managed a whole 7 minutes 18:46:33 Neccessity is the mother of more things than invention 18:46:52 deep 18:48:50 -!- nortti has joined. 18:49:26 freenode sucks 18:50:34 it wont let me in with or without ssh 18:50:46 it let you in now 18:51:10 irc over ssh 18:51:11 olsner: I am using webchat 18:51:32 *ssl 18:52:43 no, it's definitely ssh :) 18:53:21 it says "This server is for SASL users only" 18:53:58 South American Sign Language? 18:55:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:55:36 nortti: Then you're connecting to the wrong server. 18:55:45 The SASL stuff is for Tor. 18:56:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:56:38 elliott: I am connecting to irc.freenode.net 18:57:00 then there's some other issue with your configuration :) 18:57:05 anyway, I'm going to sleep 18:57:52 enumerable and innumerable sound almost the same, but are pretty much opposites (I believe) 18:58:21 elliott: strange how it stopped working on both my phone and computer with configurations that worked before 18:58:54 googling suggests it's a common issue with mobile providers or something. 18:59:13 funny enough, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enumerable points out the potential for confusion but still managed to have two incorrect examples (out of three) 18:59:14 in any case it's pretty obviously not freenode's fault or nobody would be able to connect (well, to the same server, anyway, round-robin and all that) 18:59:16 slep -> 18:59:19 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:02:31 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:06:25 -!- cheater has joined. 19:09:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:10:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:10:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:13:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:44:09 -!- augur has joined. 20:26:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:26:23 Oh damn, I've opened two 20:26:32 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 20:26:33 oh no 20:26:51 That fixed ti 20:48:46 -!- wyldstallyns has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:00:07 Goodnight 21:00:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 21:01:24 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:06:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:12:44 Except for the White player's first turn, each player may, twice per game, move a piece with duplication meaning a copy is left at its original location. You may not duplicate queens and kings (although pawns can be duplicated). Also, pawns can use such a move while capturing or non-capturing; other pieces can use duplication only for non-capturing. 21:17:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:35 "A steam dummy or dummy engine... was a steam engine enclosed in a wooden box structure made to resemble a railroad passenger coach.... It was thought that the more familiar appearance of a coach presented by a steam dummy, as compared to a conventional engine, would be less likely to frighten horses when these trains had to operate in city streets. Later it was discovered that it was actually the noise and motion of the operating gear of a 21:32:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:33:33 the operating gear of a$ 21:34:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:36:44 "Later it was discovered that it was actually the noise and motion of the operating gear of a steam engine that frightened horses, rather than the unfamiliar outlines of a steam engine." 21:56:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:08:56 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:37:07 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:38:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:44:34 -!- variable has joined. 22:51:26 -!- augur has joined. 22:54:12 # readlink /etc 22:54:13 usr/etc 22:54:19 pikhq: BE OFFENDED 22:54:24 elliott: BE PRESENT AND OFFENDED 22:54:30 Uhh 22:54:37 Anybody else: BE OFFENDED 22:54:42 Gregor: NO 22:54:46 Gregor: NO NO NO 22:54:59 8-D 22:55:01 I hereby declare /usr banned. 22:55:10 Oh, then you'll like this: 22:55:25 ~ # readlink /bin 22:55:25 usr/bin 22:55:25 ~ # readlink /lib 22:55:25 usr/lib 22:56:09 While everyone else tries to eschew /usr in preference of /, I eschew / in preference of /usr 8-D 22:56:17 You bastard. 22:57:07 Muahahahahaaaaa 8-D 22:57:25 I actually discovered the etymology behind /usr a while back 22:57:43 or, well, stumbled across someone else explaining it 22:57:58 it seems that in the original UNIX system, it was for home dirs, and on a separate disk from everything else 22:58:17 then they ran out of disk space on /, so they started putting things that weren't needed immediately on boot onto the /usr disk because they were short of space 22:58:27 then they bought another disk, and decided to move the home dirs there… 22:58:36 lol 23:01:41 so, /usr is actually for users, makes perfect sense 23:02:20 pikhq: So do you want to know WHY I have this layout? X-D 23:03:08 http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html was linked-to from somewhere recently, it's about /usr. 23:03:09 Gregor: Because each program has a seperate view of /usr. 23:03:35 Oh. Well yeah. So why are you so offended then? X-D 23:03:48 Should totally do it on / instead. :P 23:04:05 Yeah, /home and /var would really appreciate that. 23:04:16 Absolutely. :D 23:04:32 And /boot, /dev, /proc, /sys for that matter. 23:04:40 *Clearly* you need to have those as packages. 23:05:20 Unfortunately, aufs is sorta too lame to sensibly make /home a package. 23:05:44 Lame. 23:06:31 Its options for deciding where new files go are bugging me, but kinda work only because usually you only put new files in /usr if you're installing a new package. 23:22:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:28:45 -!- monqy has joined. 2012-05-03: 00:03:56 -!- wyldstallyns has joined. 00:27:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:30:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:17 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:33:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 00:34:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:42:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:42:40 Hello; do you want................. 01:19:52 In the Dungeons&Dragons game I will make it my character's job to write down everything about the haunted castle and so on, in a book to keep in the royal archives and in the library, so that next time anyone need to go in there, they can know what to expect 01:22:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:23:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:47:09 -!- itidus20 has joined. 01:50:13 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:52:39 messages? 01:52:39 itidus20: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:52:49 @messages 01:52:49 itidus21 said 15h 54m 6s ago: elliott still has a box of beasts to use on zot:5 02:18:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 02:28:23 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:21:37 -!- calamari has joined. 04:20:40 oh my god someone actually tried to play the death waltz 04:25:15 ? 04:40:05 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:46:23 `log waltz 04:46:56 No output. 04:46:59 `log waltz 04:47:16 2011-08-26.txt:23:47:46: [20:52] Johnson Plays Waltz Citing Beethoven's "Your From Round Pittsburg?" Use Escalating Overalls You Damn Jackasses... Just kidding!" 04:47:55 `log waltz 04:48:02 2010-07-11.txt:07:19:52: I missed the Death Waltz bit where the upper staff gets a note below the bottom staff on ledger lines :D 04:48:23 `log waltz 04:48:30 2012-05-03.txt:04:47:55: `log waltz 04:48:41 `pastelog waltz 04:48:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24809 04:48:58 Oh, right 04:49:14 monqy, there was an update at ??:10 04:49:29 Or so 04:57:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCgT94A7WgI 05:00:06 coppro, embedding disabled on request when I try to use youtuberepeat 05:00:13 And it crashes when I try to view it normally 05:00:18 So, FCUK 05:00:22 noted 05:00:26 * Sgeo opens Firfox 05:00:28 Firefox 05:00:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:01:03 Oh, I've seen this 05:03:27 coppro, did they skip bar 7 correctly? 05:03:38 hard ot tell 05:03:46 unsurprisingly, it's difficult to follow along to the music 05:04:18 although I think they forgot to repeat the first "bar" 9 times 05:06:21 I don't see that 05:06:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:13:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:42:44 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:42 kmc: Did you see monqy's self-portrait of me? 05:48:22 yes 05:48:28 i think you asked me that yesterday 05:48:33 is this the one with bonzi buddy? 05:49:36 elliott also drew a self-portrait of me with Bonzi Buddy. 05:49:41 But monqy drew a different one. 05:49:51 11:38 < elliott> 19:18 08:05:37: Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 05:51:53 It's pretty great. 05:52:00 thonqy 05:52:38 nice 05:53:01 how do you make a self-portrait of someone else 05:53:11 wyldstallyns: Just like monqy did it. 06:07:47 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:15:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:18:40 they're very good 06:24:26 @tell elliott I just found out about http://www.zincland.com/7drl/kobold/ from TVTropes. Have you tried it? 06:24:27 Consider it noted. 06:25:14 has anyone not tried smart kobold? 06:25:28 hlep 06:25:34 "whats smart kobold" 06:25:36 monqy, I haven't heard of it until now 06:25:45 how did you live with yourself 06:25:49 bah, next ThinkPad X series will have a chiclet keyboard 06:25:53 http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/05/lenovo-thinkpad-with-ivy-bridge-leaked/ 06:26:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:55 chiclet? 06:27:37 CHICLET KEYBOARD? MORE LIKE CHIC KEYBOARD, KORRECT? 06:27:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard 06:28:04 -!- variable has joined. 06:29:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:31:33 monqy has been UPDATEd 06:33:02 Sgeo: it used to mean a particularly shitty kind of rubber membrane keypad seen on tv remotes etc 06:33:30 now it's used to refer to laptop keyboards where individual keys are separated by empty space 06:33:38 even though the key mechanism is (in general) much better than those shitty membranes 06:33:48 the thinkpad chiclet keyboard allegedly has the same mechanism as the classic thinkpad keyboard 06:34:09 I'm using a Dell chiclet keyboard. 06:35:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:36:03 ooh, I have made a discovery! 06:36:22 the wireless around here is really buggy (apparently it's a router issue), and normally won't connect at all, or only for short periods of time 06:36:33 but it's more likely to connect immediately after the computer is rebooted 06:36:57 and it seems that I can replicate that same high success chance by a rmmod/insmod on the wi-fi driver kernel module 06:37:05 this could seriously save me a lot of time if it works 06:37:21 ais523: I once considered making an alias for "sudo sh -c 'rmmod iwlwifi; modprobe iwlwifi'" 06:37:27 But it never leaves my command line history. 06:37:32 So I didn't get around to doing it. 06:38:05 yeah i have a script for that 06:38:19 on linux you should look into whether your card tries to support 802.11n 06:38:21 and if so, disable it 06:38:28 that improved reliability a lot on one machine i tried 06:39:15 My card keeps developing exciting new bugs. 06:39:43 Under Ubuntu it was relatively stable once I got everything set up. Here in Debian it seems to break in subtly different ways on every few-week upgrade. 06:39:49 This is the reverse of kmc's experience, I think. 06:40:22 haha 06:40:26 debian unstable? 06:40:36 i've never used ubuntu on my own machine for a long stretch of time 06:40:50 just in VMs and on other people's machines here and there 06:41:14 i think even debian unstable doesn't update the kernel that often? 06:41:14 Testing. 06:41:17 hm 06:41:27 you could pin the kernel to a specific version 06:41:34 It might have to do with the fact that I'm using a monstrosity of a system around the kernel. 06:44:12 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/05/02/bosch-drowsiness-detection-system-to-make-alertness-tech-more-common/ 06:45:49 because the world demands people to drive while sleepy 06:46:00 shachaf: how so 06:46:29 I didn't feel like getting xmonad set up so I just tried to reproduce my lazy GNOME setup from before. 06:46:33 But GNOME 3. 06:46:47 So now I'm running xfce but with gnome-settings-daemon because I wanted something that gnome-settings-daemon did. 06:46:58 And also I'm running both NetworkManager and WICD at the same time, I think? 06:47:20 that sounds inadvisable 06:47:34 And I have a loop that runs "disable-capslock; xmodmap $REMAP_CAPSLOCK_THINGY" every two seconds, because xfce randomly interferes with GNOME's keyboard settings. 06:47:54 -_- 06:48:07 I should just set xmonad up. 06:48:13 i use wpa-supplicant, nothing higher level than that 06:48:25 I managed to get GNOME 2 to a perfectly usable state. I don't need much out of my WM. 06:48:31 Why did they have to go mess it up? 06:48:56 because GNOME 06:49:50 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:49:53 did you run into trouble setting up xmonad, or just haven't got around to it? 06:50:12 also what about plain xfce, no GNOME? 06:50:36 Just haven't gotten around to it. 06:50:42 I have a really old xmonad.hs somewhere. 06:50:52 yeah, upgrading those can be a pain 06:50:53 I'm fine with that but gnome-settings-daemon did a few things that xfce didn't, or something. 06:51:06 maybe there is another way to do those things 06:51:21 which doesn't involve getting goatfucked by GNOME 06:51:35 Probably. 06:51:41 But it sounded like so much effort at the time. 06:51:44 this is really kind of a worrying state of affairs 06:51:55 Things like "set up multiple keyboard layouts without messing with Xorg.conf". 06:52:05 if GNOME is the main UI that's usable by beginners, but is hated and disowned by skilled programmers 06:52:15 down that road lies PHP 06:52:56 but a fair number of the skilled programmers i know run at least some parts of GNOME 06:53:00 so maybe it's not so bad 06:53:24 I'm really at the "don't care" stage. 06:53:36 I don't want too much out of my WM. I mostly use full-screen windows anyway. 06:53:57 But GNOME 3 felt like an early beta or something -- so much was broken and the rest was uncustomizable. 06:55:41 kmc: When are you going to write kmcwm? 06:56:03 Well, that was fun. 06:56:33 Tech writing, had to write instructions on "any topic"... 06:56:41 So, I explained the basics of Magic. 06:58:12 hi Magic 06:58:16 How does Magic work? 06:58:56 9 pages for a basic primer on the subject, apparently. 06:59:07 And by "basic" I mean I even omitted a card type. 06:59:12 (fuck planeswalkers) 06:59:15 haha 07:00:32 Of course, that's 9 pages with fairly defaulty TeX formatting. Large margins, ToC, whole page taken up by a picture of a card... 07:00:36 Eh, whatever. 07:01:53 Also, computer modern because I'm lazy and the professor seems to like everything else I've turned in in it. :P 07:02:27 LaTeX is a great way to get some unearned credibility 07:02:46 Greater still when you're actually writing Pandoc. :P 07:02:52 kmc: Is it as good as a clear plastic bider? 07:03:02 probably the dirtiest trick I ever pulled was, if I had a long sequence of algebraic manipulations, I would put the dodgiest step across a page break 07:03:05 pikhq_: lol do you think the reader of this document will learn Magic as a result? 07:03:17 itidus20: Quite plausibly. 07:03:19 pikhq_: which input format? 07:03:23 dun dun dunnnnnn 07:03:26 kmc: Markdown. 07:03:32 yeah, that's nice 07:03:44 kmc: Dodgy as in "unsure about it" or "don't feel like writing it out"? 07:04:02 It's like writing TeX, but much much easier on me. 07:04:50 unsure 07:05:19 i liked using markdown for beamer slides 07:05:31 but i did run into some limitations (which could have been fixed by writing a pandoc module, probably) 07:05:45 also it takes pdflatex a long time to compile 100 slides! 07:05:57 if i do another presentation I will seriously consider breaking it up and stitching the resulting pdfs 07:06:03 You should've used that slidy thing! 07:06:06 with a makefile 07:06:18 shachaf: *shrug* I've had bad experiences with HTML slideshows in the past 07:06:29 Yeah... I've been running my whole thing through Tup. 07:06:35 what's Tup? 07:06:59 Build automation tool, vaguely like make with better algorithms behind it. 07:07:23 Probably the nicest feature is its monitor, which can automatically rebuild stuff when the source has changed. 07:07:28 Oh, I thought it was the thing that puts multiple Postscript pages on a single printed page. 07:07:36 cool 07:07:39 http://gittup.org/tup/\ 07:07:42 Erm. 07:07:43 Oh, right. 07:07:43 http://gittup.org/tup/ 07:07:45 That thing. 07:07:51 The latter is psnup. 07:07:59 Right. 07:08:04 I was thinking of "2-up". 07:08:24 Typically like using it as I dev for fairly quick feedback on things. 07:08:32 Seeing if something compiles is as easy as :w 07:09:01 I usually do that by hand with inotifywait 07:09:07 "hand" 07:09:36 Shame that TeX building is a royal pain to automate with it, though. 07:09:53 (as TeX spews files all over the place and sometimes needs to run multiple times...) 07:09:57 yeah 07:10:04 also there's little opportunity for partial recompilation 07:10:09 if you have just a flat document 07:10:26 Shame that TeX is what it is. 07:10:40 So good and so bad all at the same time. 07:11:12 Good enough that no one will ever replace it, or something. 07:11:15 yeah 07:11:36 Along one dimension, at least. 07:12:04 Its output is good enough that it'd be really hard to even come close. 07:12:26 I wonder if it's the most popular Pascal program around these days. 07:12:54 Probably. 07:12:59 I know it's the only one on my system. 07:13:54 how does tup know which files etc. your compiler read? 07:14:00 does it use something like ptrace 07:14:02 pikhq_: Did you know execl("/usr/bin/tex", NULL); // => Segmentation fault 07:14:06 kmc: I think it uses FUSE? 07:14:12 whaaa 07:14:21 https://github.com/gittup/fuse 07:14:31 On Linux, it creates a FUSE filesystem in a dot directory, and runs the command there. 07:14:42 On Windows, it does some hack similar to LD_PRELOAD. 07:15:00 If LD_PRELOAD and/or ptrace is acceptable why can't it do that for both? 07:15:18 FUSe seems like overkill. 07:15:28 strange 07:15:31 FUSE is quite a bit better than LD_PRELOAD for the purpose. I bet ptrace would work decently, though. 07:15:48 Though, does ptrace work on OS X? 07:15:50 there are various situations where LD_PRELOAD would fail 07:15:55 apparently ptrace sucks on OS X 07:16:00 but there are other Mach interfaces you can use 07:16:09 FUSE works on every remaining UNIX, though. 07:16:14 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:16:23 pikhq_: I guess it's more reasonable in Windows because LD_PRELOAD-hookable functions are the *only* portable way to access the filesystem. 07:16:38 Oh, sorry, every remaining UNIX *but OpenBSD*. 07:16:45 does Solaris have FUSE? 07:16:50 Yes. 07:16:54 (come on guys, even Hurd has FUSE!) 07:17:13 Hurd *is* FUSE, man 07:17:14 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:17:14 dude 07:17:17 How about actual Unix®? Does it work on Unix®? 07:17:22 i should get Mosh working on Hurd 07:17:29 Yeah, they implemented FUSE by making a wrapper library. 07:17:33 that would be a laff 07:17:51 it will be a supported platform for Debian wheezy! 07:17:53 So much time, so little to do! 07:17:59 shachaf: It doesn't get more actual than the BSDs. 07:18:11 pikhq_: It -- does, doesn't it? 07:18:28 does AIX have FUSE? 07:18:38 I mean AT&T Unix. 07:18:40 No, but can you call that "remaining"? 07:18:49 latest stable release October 2011 07:18:52 according to Wikipedia 07:18:56 shachaf: Nah. 07:18:58 Oh, I thought you meant "remaining after you rule out Linux". 07:19:07 kmc: Bah, humbug. 07:19:10 latest release of HP-UX was last month! 07:19:23 I meant "remaining" as in "not dead or effectively so". 07:19:48 just because your hippie friends can't afford a real UNIX doesn't mean they're dead 07:19:51 ;P 07:20:07 Strictly speaking, that was 2007. 07:20:17 HP is just contractually obligated to provide patches until 2013. 07:20:18 * shachaf runs SCO OpenUNIX. 07:20:28 there was a MINIX release in February 07:20:35 Ooh, MINIX 3. 07:20:36 That's real. 07:20:38 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:20:42 Oh, right, MINIX. Yeah, that doesn't have FUSE. 07:20:43 so HP-UX will actually go away in 2013? 07:20:47 As real as HURD, anyway. 07:20:51 Probably. 07:20:54 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2011/xv6.html 07:20:58 AIX will stay around forever. 07:21:05 Hopefully. 07:21:24 * kmc hasn't actually read the xv6 source, JOS is more interesting 07:21:25 Before that, they released in 2003, then 2002, 2001, 2000, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1992, 1991... And so on. 07:21:54 1991 was a good year. 07:21:58 Yeah, that at least *suggests* HP-UX isn't going to last. 07:22:19 Oh, and it's for PA-RISC and Itanium machines only. 07:22:30 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:22:44 AKA "dead" and "only technically alive", respectively. 07:22:50 JOS is pretty neat 07:22:58 you implement copy-on-write fork() in userspace! 07:23:03 the kernel gives you just enough rope to do so 07:23:13 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:23:14 (the last PA-RISC came out in 2005. Some 3 orders of magnitude ago.) 07:23:19 What's JOS? 07:23:33 in MIT's 6.828 you write portions of an OS named JOS 07:23:43 the materials are all online; you should check it out 07:23:57 Ah, a teaching OS sort of thing. 07:24:04 yeah 07:24:25 Looks neat. 07:24:30 * shachaf should learn more about this topic. 07:24:31 I can't figure out why AIX is still alive, but then, this is IBM. 07:24:34 they call it an "exokernel" 07:24:44 it was never clear to me exactly what this means 07:24:58 They support a 50 year old ISA. 07:25:23 they designed that ISA at the outset knowing they would support it for 50 years :D 07:25:29 System/360? 07:25:34 yeah 07:25:55 ... Oh, wow, I can believe they did. 07:25:57 to be fair, they've extended it a lot, and now include support for 3 address sizes 07:25:58 it was meant from the beginning to be a kind of virtual thing that would upgrade to newer hardware 07:26:03 32-bit addressing in *1964*?!? 07:26:05 lol 31 bit architecture 07:26:18 pikhq_: it started as 24-bit 07:26:42 oh wait, I'm confusing 360 and 370 again 07:26:49 olsner: I'm discussing the ISA, not early implementations thereof. 07:26:52 maybe i am too 07:27:16 The ISA allowed 32-bit addresses even though the early chips didn't work when you went beyond 2^24. 07:27:45 This is ridiculous. 07:27:49 just like x86-64 today 07:28:42 shachaf: the primitive IPC message in JOS is a machine int plus optionally a page mapping 07:28:46 Also, you could operate on 128-bit values. 07:29:17 (though I think early ones couldn't do arithmetic or anything like that on them) 07:29:35 early IBM machines had hardware support for pre-decimal British £sd money 07:30:00 Wow. 07:30:15 in fact there were several different formats for storing same 07:30:20 which you could select with a front panel knob 07:30:40 I wish my computer had knobs. :-( 07:31:46 And blinkenlights? 07:32:46 fun stuff about z/Architecture is that you have something like 19 address spaces you can switch between and access with special instructions 07:33:30 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/IBM_1401_Control_Panel.jpg 07:33:35 "IBM PENCE BSI SHILL" 07:33:42 home, primary, secondary, plus 16 "Access Registers" 07:34:00 64-bit, 31-bit... Presumably also 24-bit, just in case someone needs to run really weird FORTRAN, and? 07:34:11 Oh, address spaces, not schemes. 07:34:24 shachaf: you can attach some knobs and blinkenlights quite easily 07:34:39 i had an analog CPU meter for a while 07:34:48 I never asked for blinkenlichten. 07:35:01 This computer has three pseudo-buttons. 07:35:04 this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgZEfExBBiY 07:35:07 One of them sends Super-X. 07:35:29 One of them dims the screen by slightly less than the regular Fn-dim-screen button. 07:35:55 The third one pops up a big ⊘ on the screen. 07:36:29 shachaf: sounds incredibly useful 07:36:46 Doesn't it just? 07:36:56 Also I need to get my laundry from Outside. 07:37:01 kmc: That's awesome. 07:37:19 there used to be a Ksplice blog post about how i made it 07:37:20 * kmc pouts 07:37:27 but it's just an arduino and a resistor and a small python script 07:37:49 everyone on reddit was like "LAME Y DIDN'T U TAP CPU POWER PINS N00B" 07:37:57 Doesn't change the awesome. 07:37:59 it's an ammeter, you see 07:38:11 Tap CPU power pins? Eeeek. 07:38:29 my laser cutter has a meter on the front panel 07:38:31 labeled "Amperemeter" 07:38:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:38:38 Analog is the new digital. 07:38:39 in that ugly serif font used for Latin letters in Chinese fonts 07:38:46 (the same font is on the rest of the front panel) 07:38:54 it doesn't say anywhere what component it's measuring the amperes of 07:39:30 also the lid interlock switch doesn't work, I should do something about that 07:39:42 Ah, ugly-large monospace. 07:40:14 shachaf: an awesome suckless CPU meter, done right, that celebrates craftsmanship 07:41:07 whoa, dude 07:41:26 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:42:30 shachaf: I think it's cool to have an OS where the lowest level idea of how to send data around involves zero-copy transfers of page mappings 07:42:48 there are probably some "real" microkernels that do this too 07:42:58 Isn't that what L4's known for? 07:43:17 maybe 07:43:34 yeah i guess so 07:43:39 kmc: I came across a job ad that looked vaguely interesting today, but then I saw that it was for Ksplice. 07:43:45 haha 07:43:46 where? 07:44:05 i hear people are still pretty happy there 07:44:08 and you could move to boston 07:44:11 you could also not move to boston 07:44:50 If it's so great why aren't you there? 07:44:59 it's always better on holiday 07:45:04 that's why we only work when we need the money 07:45:31 And on holiday we port mosh to GNU/HURD. 07:45:36 yeah 07:45:38 maybe 07:46:23 I need to get my laundry. 07:46:32 I wonder how the cost of a 4kB memory copy compares to the overhead involved in mapping a new page 07:47:12 yeah 07:47:49 on x86 you mostly have to flush the TLB when context switching anyway 07:48:00 Completely? 07:48:04 yeah, so some of that mapping overhead can be made to disappear into things that you have to do "anyway" 07:48:09 but it could hurt when the two processes are running simultaneously on different cores 07:48:16 then you need to do an IPI to tell the other guy to flush his TLB 07:48:17 not fun 07:48:27 but you can also do new mappings / increased privileges lazily 07:48:37 However, 4kiB memory copy also messes with cache. 4kiB is a lot of cache. 07:48:59 kmc: at the cost of at least one fault in the future 07:49:01 on architectures with tagged TLBs, it might be more painful relatively speaking 07:49:04 yeah 07:49:13 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:49:41 I mean, my L1 is 512k... 07:50:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:53:48 I guess that's what those non-temporal move instructions are for 07:54:27 the TLB flush is a constant cost, while memory copy is not 07:54:30 so there is probably a break-even point 07:55:14 I wonder whether 4kB is still a reasonable page size these days. 07:55:31 It seems like there are a lot of things that huge pages are reasonable for. 07:55:40 Hence why Linux now supports them. 07:55:47 Right. 07:55:56 And I guess it does the transparent huge pages thing these days. 07:56:00 Yeah. 07:56:03 At least in theory. 07:56:09 Automagic 2MiB pages if you turn it on. 07:56:58 hi linux 07:57:07 monqy: You should draw a self-portrait of kmc. 07:57:22 oh dear 07:57:27 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:58:39 you can't draw self portraits of other people 07:58:44 PowerPC supports like 1 GB pages, doesn't it? 07:58:54 x86 does too, some models anyway 07:58:54 you can't write someone else's autobiography 07:58:57 I think 16GB? 07:59:11 PowerPC also has a crazy half-hard-filled "inverted page table" TLB 07:59:13 There was some architecture that supported that, anyway. 07:59:30 x86-64 does 1GiB. 07:59:38 * kmc added huge page support to JOS, but only for the kernel direct mapping 07:59:44 x86 could do 4TB pages by using a flag in the same manner it does 2MB/1GB pages 08:00:05 er, 512GB pages 08:02:25 Linux also has a thing to transparently merge pages with the same content 08:02:58 Really? 08:03:04 How does it find them? 08:03:06 for pages that aren't all-zero too? 08:03:24 i think so 08:03:35 shachaf: by scanning all of memory periodically 08:03:40 i think it's not enabled by default... 08:03:50 but can improve memory consumption dramatically on machines hosting a large number of similar VMs 08:04:17 Ah, hmm. 08:06:03 It's enabled by default *but* only scans pages with the appropriate madvise() set. 08:06:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_SamePage_Merging_(KSM) ? 08:06:27 ah yeah 08:06:30 MADV_MERGEABLE, apparently. 08:08:04 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:08:10 -!- ais523_ has quit (Changing host). 08:08:10 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:08:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:08:23 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 08:12:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:12:28 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:12:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 08:18:07 kmc: Was there a verdict about mosh mouse? 08:18:22 we were just talking about that in #mosh 08:18:43 the verdict is that it's a mess and i don't want to do it 08:18:44 https://github.com/keithw/mosh/issues/101 08:18:54 Oh, yes, you were. 08:19:02 Is #mosh the place to be? 08:19:42 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 08:20:52 -!- Lymee has joined. 08:21:33 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (*.net *.split). 08:21:33 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 08:21:34 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 08:22:11 -!- qfr has joined. 08:25:07 shachaf: it is... a place to be 08:25:23 i should get a mosh project hostname cloak 08:25:28 but i failed to discover how to do that 08:25:42 kmc: you have to ask the group contact for the projet 08:25:44 *project 08:25:48 and be identified on freenode 08:26:27 how do i find out who the group contact for a project is 08:26:32 it might be me 08:26:34 i'm the founder of #mosh 08:27:26 kmc: SOunds like you're in trouble. 08:27:31 is there a group contact? the channel would have to be registered with Freenode 08:27:38 That would be like drawing a self-portrait of *yourself*. 08:27:42 A self-self-portrait. 08:27:47 whoa, man 08:27:49 not just with chanserv, but with the people in charge of running the servers 08:27:58 ah 08:28:35 The Freenode FAQ talks about it, but it seems to be down. 08:28:40 :( 08:28:41 Probably has something to do with the splits. 08:28:54 netshits 08:30:04 http://www.google.com/search?strip=1&q=cache:freenode.net/faq.shtml 08:30:35 I should get a cloak. 08:31:23 paperwork :/ 08:32:24 If you make elliott an op he would take care of the paperwork for you. 08:32:29 He would also go crazy and ban everybody. 08:32:43 i think i... won't do that 08:33:32 Actually he probably wouldn't do either of those things. 08:34:11 Do you have to be affiliated with MIT to get a .mit.edu subdomain for your project? 08:35:22 i don't know exactly what the rules are 08:35:29 affiliation is a slippery thing at MIT 08:35:56 Maybe I should try to get one. I was in an MIT building once. 08:36:06 It's probably good for seeming legitimate. 08:36:48 many student groups will let you join without ever having been officially affiliated with MIT 08:36:59 they can also sponsor an Athena account for you, whether or not you join their group 08:37:09 i don't know if that alone is enough to get domain names 08:39:46 and yeah, it is good for seeming legitimate 08:39:58 at least one person told us they would have assumed our software is insecure if not for the .mit.edu domain name 08:52:23 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:56:50 kmc: I guess I would need to move to Boston. 09:15:06 to join an MIT club? 09:18:42 Maybe not. 09:18:47 They did a SIPB thing here once. 09:19:36 oh, really? 09:19:37 what was it 09:20:09 you could move to Cambridge or Somerville or Brookline instead 09:21:08 or Newton 09:21:17 or other such places 09:22:19 SIPB hackathon at Stripe in Palo Alto. 09:22:40 what did they hack on? 09:22:42 Debathena? XVM? 09:22:52 I think they just had a bunch of people go there. 09:23:03 I'm not sure that there was an overarching thing. 09:24:02 i should join SIPB 09:24:13 i'm not sure how much effort this would take 10:04:35 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:04:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:08:04 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:09:23 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:11:33 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:22:40 -!- cheater has joined. 10:33:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:37:20 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:37:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:08:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:13:16 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:17:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:17:54 "Super Mario Bros (along with many other Nintendo games) was proved to be NP-hard by Greg Aloupis, Erik Demaine and Alan Guoyz.[64]" :-D 11:18:10 http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.1895v1.pdf 11:18:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:18:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:56 includes a section on pokemon 11:22:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:31:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:37:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:41:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:43:08 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:54:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:06:54 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:09:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:11:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:12:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:17:19 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:20:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:36:21 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:38:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:44:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:47:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:48:46 -!- absentswett has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:49:01 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:49:09 Hello! 12:50:31 -!- absentswett has joined. 12:50:49 hi Ngevd 12:51:03 Did you see my half-esolang? 12:52:35 what was its name? 12:52:44 It's half-name. 12:52:48 User:Taneb/Lowgate and Dilston 12:52:51 itidus20: the Pokémon proof is actually incorrect, due to a glitch in Pokémon first generation 12:52:55 Ngevd: no, I didn't 12:52:56 I've posted Lowgate 12:53:01 Still need to define Dilston 12:53:13 there's a chance that the exploding voltorbs will miss altogether; also, the gastly will level up from them 12:53:30 and levelling up an l1 gastly takes it to l100, unless it gains a lot of exp all at once 12:53:37 If the Collatz conjecture is false, at least one of Lowgate and Dilston is Turing-complete 12:54:34 (Lowgate for infinite trajectories, Dilston for cycles) 12:55:46 Ngevd: the mere fact you made that statement makes me optimistic that this esolang won't be the usual rubbish that gets added to the wiki 12:56:41 :D 12:56:52 Lowgate is a Suffolk derivative, I'm afraid 12:57:03 And Dilston will probably be a derivative of something else 13:05:49 meh, Suffolk is not a boring language to make derivatives of, yet anyway 13:07:42 Ngevd: err, Suffolk doesn't depend on infinitely many accessible cells to work 13:07:47 in fact, you can access only a finite number 13:08:36 Damn. 13:08:43 Here was me being all clever 13:09:39 Actually... 13:14:05 Well, it's good it's still in userspace 13:15:41 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:15:56 I think this is the second time I've been annoyed at one of my languages being /too/ turing-complete 13:31:30 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:33:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:39:56 -!- elliott has joined. 13:40:51 ais523: I think David.werecat has the "Mark all edits minor by default" option on :P 13:40:51 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:41:28 14:41 Sgeo said 7h 16m 25s ago: I just found out about http://www.zincland.com/7drl/kobold/ from TVTropes. Have you tried it? 13:41:29 elliott: go into the database and turn it off 13:41:33 Sgeo: kobolds aren't smart & i like them 13:41:36 ais523: I was going to ;) 13:41:45 oh, and Smart Kobolds, you should try that, I've been meaning to for quite a while 13:41:58 but I don't want to kill kobolds, and kobolds aren't smart! 13:42:05 even if Jeff Lait originally created it as a combination of making a point, and trolling 13:42:14 hmm, what point? 13:43:11 yay, MediaWiki 1.19 is out 13:43:43 elliott: that better AI does not necessarily make for a better game 13:49:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:50:56 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:04:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:04:32 monqy: hi 14:31:39 @tell Taneb You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:31:39 Consider it noted. 14:31:57 ais523: prepare the fire extinguishers, please 14:32:10 elliott: I'm right here 14:32:22 @tell Ngevd You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:32:22 Consider it noted. 14:32:30 @messages 14:32:30 elliott said 8s ago: You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:32:35 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 14:32:43 @clear-messages 14:32:43 Messages cleared. 14:32:47 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 14:32:49 What if you had other messages??? 14:32:57 Too bad. 14:33:07 "Too bad." -- Ngevd, horrible. 14:33:14 Ngevd: I'm going to break the wiki! 14:33:18 Yay! 14:33:38 "Yay!" -- Ngevd, still horrible. 14:39:33 Ngevd: Will you do that? 14:39:40 Probably not 14:39:53 I can't think of any way of making a language that's iff either way 14:40:18 Ngevd: Well, you could make it so that the only way to get new storage is to go to the next element in the Collatz sequence. 14:40:25 (Where variables are identified by integers.) 14:40:38 Like the current version of Lowgate 14:40:54 That way, if every sequence reaches 1, every program gets a finite amount of memory. 14:40:55 However, the Collatz conjecture is also false if there is a positive loop other than 1-4-2-1 14:41:13 Yes, but a loop also stops you getting infinite memory. 14:41:17 So, if there's a loop but no infinite ascent, that wouldn't be turing complete 14:41:18 Because you'll just loop through the same few variables. 14:41:29 Oh, I see. 14:41:32 Good point. 14:41:40 Hence the two languages 14:45:25 ais523: Pang. 14:49:52 elliott: gnap? 14:50:10 (I think the response is pung?) 14:50:20 I don't care I@m too tired 14:50:43 "I don't care I@m too tired" -- ais523, 2012 14:50:58 ""I don't care I@m too tired" -- ais523, 2012" — elliott, 2012 14:51:07 Damn, I got the em dash treatment. 14:51:10 That's classy. 14:51:11 ais523, you're something to do with education in Birmingham, right? 14:51:18 ais523 *is* education in Birmingham. 14:51:25 Ngevd: I spent much of the morning marking exams 14:51:39 although I spent the time from around 6am to around 7am reading Usenet and fixing aimake 14:51:46 ais523: Anyway, I'm going to make Esolang's MediaWiki sourced from git so that upgrading is less annoying. 14:51:49 ais523, can you reccomend Birmingham University? 14:51:57 ais523: Should I use the WMF branches or the MediaWiki tags? 14:52:01 *release tags? 14:52:15 Ngevd: *reccommendd 14:52:39 Ngevd: for what? it depends on what subject you're doing 14:52:49 Maths, most likely 14:52:50 gymnastics and dog theory 14:52:51 I like the atmosphere here, at least 14:53:00 Ngevd: You're not doing gymnastics and dog theory??? 14:53:08 elliott, don't have the GCSEs. 14:53:10 if you're coming here next year, you should do maths and CS so I can teach you :) 14:53:33 As in, September 2013? 14:54:03 oh, hmm, it'd probably have to be september 2012 unless they decide that they have to hire me for another year in an emergency 14:54:36 their problem is that the budget is too small to hire new staff or even retain existing staff, also that they don't really have enough teaching staff 14:54:48 That sucks? 14:55:00 Well, tell me how things go 14:55:10 they're putting me in charge of the first year Java course next year (rather than just teaching it without being in charge) because they can't find anyone else with the knowledge to do the job 14:55:24 and I pointed out that it'd only last for one more year before my contract expires 14:55:50 also that they're not paying much more than minimum wage 14:56:00 :/ 14:57:00 however, the person who was doing it before they kept on for a year, maybe two years, after their PhD because he'd become so essential to the running of the department 14:57:08 good thing you're WOLFRAM RICH* 14:57:13 and I think he only left because Aston University poached him by offering more money 14:57:14 *not rich, by analogy with "Wolfram science", etc. 14:57:33 elliott: meh, it paid for three years of my education and living costs, that's a reasonably significant amount 14:59:06 wait, ais523 didn't answer my question :'( 15:03:35 ais523, how desperate is Birmingham University for students? 15:03:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:03:53 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:04:15 Ngevd: depends on the subject 15:04:26 For CS and Maths 15:04:29 they have ridiculously large numbers of students in some departments, like electronics 15:04:39 *like economics 15:04:46 and have to bribe them for others, like engineering 15:05:07 Ngevd: Go wherever Phantom_Hoover's going and become the ultimate brickbraining team. 15:05:24 What, Cambridge!? 15:05:39 I don't like there maths syllabus 15:05:39 for CS, I think they get enough applications that they can afford to be selective 15:05:42 No, I think Cambridge rejected him. 15:05:47 Because he's Scottish. 15:05:49 Okay, okay 15:06:01 It's some place in the middle of nowhere in Scotland. 15:06:24 If he got into a Scottish universities, I can pretend to be Dutch to get university for free 15:07:48 But yes, I'm beginning to think of universities 15:08:13 And I've just accidentally opened Rome Total War, brb 15:08:20 -!- derdon has joined. 15:08:27 ais523: 15:52 ais523: Should I use the WMF branches or the MediaWiki tags? 15:08:28 :( 15:08:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:09:07 Back 15:09:24 elliott: oh, I actually don't know 15:09:52 Ngevd: scottish universities have a bunch of advantages over english universities (well, the main one is to do with cost) 15:10:12 Time TO CLAIM TO BE DUTCH 15:10:17 I guess the WMF branches will be more up-to-date and the like, but they might be a bit less stable. (Even if they are used on Wikipedia, the WMF employs a bunch of sysadmins to fix it when it breaks.) 15:10:26 And I'd have to update less with the release tags. 15:20:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:23:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 15:24:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:25:28 ais523: how much is university typically in the UK? 15:25:44 coppro: I don't know, because it was massively increased recently (as in, since I went there) 15:25:56 how much was it when you went 15:25:57 ? 15:25:57 9000 a year 15:26:01 Now 15:26:09 (maximum, not including living costs) 15:26:13 O_o 15:26:23 coppro: £1150, but I got a £1000 discount the first year, and £500 subsequent years, for good academic performance 15:26:29 again, this doesn't include living costs 15:26:31 Cheaper than US, I believe 15:26:35 Ngevd: true 15:26:46 coppro: although you get a low-interest loan for the full amount and don't have to pay it back until you start earning money 15:26:59 so it basically ends up equivalent to a percentage tax that stops being charged eventually 15:27:01 yeah, it's the same here 15:27:12 usually 15:27:26 if the government had flavoured it as that, they'd probably get a lot less flak for it; it pretty much single-handedly sank the Liberal Democrat party 15:27:28 "University costs in X are better than the US" is a tautology for all X =/= US. 15:27:39 ^ 15:27:51 Domestic tuition here is cheaper, than that, but international tuition is more. 15:28:00 ais523: I think what sank the lib dems is doing that *because they said they wouldn't*. 15:28:44 elliott: the ridiculous thing is that what the lib dems were actually proposing was strictly worse for the students 15:28:47 (I don't think that's the only reason the Lib Dems are fucked, though.) 15:28:51 just none of them paid attention 15:29:22 ais523: It still isn't very good for trust if you explicitly do something you campaigned on the premise of not doing, though. 15:29:31 right 15:29:41 *promise (although premise works too) 15:29:48 basically, what I'm saying is that the government pulled a stupid move in not using the conservative proposal with the lib dem flavour 15:29:57 which would have kept pretty much everyone happy 15:30:07 it's about £12500/yr for an international student at my school 15:30:10 apart from the people who want tuition fees to be abolished altogether 15:30:23 At least the Conservatives are getting a terrible reputation as well as the Lib Dems. 15:31:22 I guess next time we'll elect the BNP or something on account of nobody liking the big three any more. 15:31:46 elect the omrlp 15:32:04 coppro: They're indistinguishable from all the other parties. 15:32:05 elliott: you realise that there's a Green MP atm, right? 15:32:17 a sign that people are taking fourth options seriously 15:32:19 ais523: OK, coalition of the Greens and NBP. 15:32:21 *BNP 15:32:26 ais523: The Best Government Ever(TM). 15:32:31 they'd never go into coalition with each other 15:32:37 elliott, needs more George Galloway 15:32:45 ais523: oh, I didn't realize you guys got a green mp too 15:32:56 coppro: we never do, except this time we did 15:33:11 A Green-BNP coalition might work out, on account of the government wouldn't be able to do a single thing. 15:33:15 she picked her seat very carefully, it was a case of picking the seat they thought they were most likely to win and then focusing a load of campaign effort on it 15:33:32 meh, we should have a pirate party/ninja party coalition 15:33:39 Ninja party is a thing? 15:33:44 no 15:33:49 ais523: same here 15:33:55 Let's make it a thing? 15:34:06 Ngevd: what would its policies even be? 15:34:19 she picked her riding well 15:34:20 ais523: pro-copyright 15:34:24 anti-talk like a pirate day 15:34:38 move like a ninja day 15:34:42 elliott: I don't think they'd be defined by being the exact opposite of the pirate party 15:34:48 I think it'd be a parallel with different goals 15:34:58 Promoting language education? 15:35:01 i.e. apathetic about copyright and pirate speech, but very motivated about a couple of other issues 15:35:08 ais523: In the same way that ninjas are analogous to pirates with different goals? 15:35:21 It's more like they have the same goal but very different methods. 15:35:25 The goal is killing people, or something. 15:35:27 hmm, OK 15:35:49 so ninjas should also be in favour of copyright reform, but instead of stealing it, would rather just massacre people who tried to enforce it? 15:35:51 or something 15:35:54 Right! 15:36:00 (Stealing copyright reform?) 15:36:18 elliott: /illegally downloading/ copyright reform 15:36:22 get your terminology right… 15:36:28 You're the one who said stealing! 15:36:39 the problem with a ninja government is that they'd never be able to prove that the commons got quorum 15:36:50 You wouldn't download copyright reform... 15:37:02 Wait, it's actually *steal. 15:37:05 My mind mentally fixed the advert. 15:37:10 As opposed to physically fixing it. 15:38:06 it is TIME to WALK my DOG 15:38:12 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: walking dog). 15:38:28 I always new Ngevd was a walking dog. 15:38:53 *knew 15:40:51 elliott: that's copyright violation for the rights in the fixation of a performance 15:41:07 coppro: wat 15:41:23 ais523: you don't have a PhD, right? 15:41:30 he has 523 15:41:34 coppro: I'm currently obtaining one 15:41:35 oh my bad 15:41:36 ah ok 15:41:57 ais523: Once you get a Ph.D., you should sign your emails "ais, 523 Ph.D.". 15:42:02 And FOOL EVERYONE. 15:42:18 I know, it's devious. 15:42:53 dr. s523 15:43:04 Does that mean you're an AI? 15:43:36 I don't know 15:43:52 ais523: you're researching programming languages, right? 15:44:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9243475/lists-c-homework/9247613#9247613 what a comment section 15:44:20 coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones 15:44:24 coppro: he's doing hardware programming language stuff 15:44:41 because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:44:48 huh 15:44:53 z 15:45:08 `addquote coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:45:18 852) coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:45:36 elliott: I can't expand the 128 more comments link without turning on JS 15:45:45 but the last comment above the fold is hilarious enough by itself 15:45:46 ais523: you're lucky 15:46:00 but yes, that's amazing 15:46:02 I can think of a few ways it could go from there; which did it actually do? 15:46:21 eznme proceeded to spoon-feed beginnernato for a hundred comments 15:46:27 hahahahahahah 15:46:32 that question is totally from a UW student 15:46:44 that code is /definitely/ from our second CS course 15:46:50 elliott: legitimate info or trolling? 15:46:54 * elliott upvotes the last comment above the fold 15:47:03 ais523: legitimate (albeit academically dishonest on beginnernato's part, naturally) 15:47:14 indeed, I just ment on eznme's part 15:47:31 (and probably not too ethical on eznme's part by consequence) 15:47:31 also, how does an answer get 128 comments and exactly 1 vote? 15:47:39 ais523: because only two people are participating in it 15:47:45 they're using it as a chatroom 15:47:47 meh, eznme may well turn out to be the prof who set the problem 15:48:00 despite the warning that will have appeared for about 120 of them 15:48:16 (it says, roughly, "don't use comments for extended discussion, if you click this link we'll turn it into a Stack Overflow chatroom for you") 15:50:22 eznme was definitely not the prof 15:51:30 the prof almost certainly would not have given away the answers 15:51:40 at least not so quickly 15:52:17 coppro: there's several tales of profs giving away the answer immediately so that they could catch plagiarism red-handed if it was actually used unchanged 15:52:24 although more commonly for essay-writing than in CS 15:53:48 hmm, running git as root 15:54:32 also, huh 15:54:44 I appear to have gained several thousand reputation since last time I was visiting stackoverflow O_o 15:54:57 almost 2k 15:54:59 several _thousand_? 15:55:04 yes 15:55:10 you have an answer with 396 votes 15:55:12 yeah 15:55:12 that probably explains i 15:55:13 *it 15:55:21 it keeps getting more 15:55:25 ah, from 2008 15:55:31 viewed 64,682 times 15:55:34 and tagged [c++-faq] 15:55:36 you won the jackpot 15:55:56 haha 15:56:06 I'm nearly a moderator due largely to that question 15:56:17 THIS SYSTEM IS SMRT 15:56:18 "moderator" generally refers to the elected moderators 15:56:23 the 10k moderator tools are... not as impressive 15:56:49 you mostly just get to see flags and to second or disagree with them (not act on them), and things like recently closed questions 15:56:58 coppro: I think if I edited that post, it'd become community wiki and you'd stop getting any rep on it 15:57:06 so tempting why can't this client do bold 15:57:40 elliott: do you lose rep if a post you got rep for becomes community wiki? 15:57:49 coppro: oh no, you asked one of those terrible "What's your favourite X feature?" questions :( 15:57:55 ais523: no, you just stop getting any more rep 15:59:01 * ais523 checks how http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/05/01/2146232/android-ported-to-c is getting on 15:59:12 that URL is misleading 15:59:14 not loading, it seems 15:59:19 and yes, it's missing the # 15:59:23 ais523: the flamewars slashdotted slashdot 15:59:32 hey, remember when everybody's servers sucked and slashdotting was a thing??? 15:59:42 it's 503 15:59:48 and yes, sort-of 15:59:54 I was only around for the tail end of it, though 16:00:01 reddit still manages to slashdot sites now and again, though 16:00:01 I bet nethack4.org could be slashdotted. 16:00:08 possibly 16:00:19 ais523: that's more because people don't know how to configure WordPress than reddit sending tons of traffic 16:00:23 the patch-tag page on AceHack /was/ slashdotted 16:00:31 elliott: well, indeed 16:00:34 but it held up 16:00:37 AceHack got on slashdot? 16:00:43 yep :) 16:00:48 what, as a standalone post? 16:00:52 or as part of a post about NetHack variants? 16:00:52 with a bunch of other variants 16:00:54 the latter seems more believable 16:00:59 right 16:01:05 elliott: if you edit it, it doesn't become community wiki unless you choose to make it so 16:01:15 coppro: no, if it gets edited by 5 other people it becomes CW 16:01:21 really? 16:01:29 (but you can flag it to be put back by a moderator, if other people have only made minor edits) 16:01:38 ah 16:02:02 (elected moderator again, not 10k) 16:02:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:02:31 right 16:03:16 elliott@solidity:/srv/esolangs.org/www/mediawiki-new/extensions$ for ext in AbuseFilter AntiSpoof CheckUser ConfirmEdit Nuke ParserFunctions Renameuser Vector WikiEditor; do sudo git clone https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/extensions/$ext.git; done 16:03:18 fun 16:03:45 what is nuke? ban a user and rollback all their edits? 16:04:14 mass deletes pages created by a certain user 16:04:22 I think it was designed for Wikipedia vandals and Esolang really has no use for it 16:04:27 but I can't not enable such a destructive extension 16:05:40 hmm 16:05:43 does git track permissions? 16:05:49 oh, it tracks at least +x, I guess 16:06:46 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:31 -!- elliott has joined. 16:07:41 my connection :( 16:18:02 -!- augur has joined. 16:21:53 No, I think Cambridge rejected him. 16:21:55 Lies! 16:22:05 I have an offer, although it's not really a pleasant one. 16:22:18 Offer: "Go die in a fire, you Scottish asswipe." 16:22:55 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 16:23:26 Hey shachaf, I'm reading a poor blog post about Haskell! 16:28:38 So for some reason I'm downloading TortoiseSVN, except they've rigged the download page not to display if you're using an adblocker. 16:29:21 "Windows" — Phantom_Hoover 16:29:34 Phantom_Hoover: No, it just plain doesn't display. 16:30:06 You're... right. 16:30:10 wat 16:30:27 It's obviously trivial to find the downloads. 16:30:31 But why would you want TortoiseSVN? 16:30:51 Some idiot mod authors decided to make theirs available through SVN. 16:31:04 ...how is that idiotic? And since when does that mean you need to use TortoiseSVN? 16:31:23 I'm literally following the instructions on their website. 16:31:43 Also c'mon, mods are not exactly aimed at a demographic who can use SVN. 16:31:59 pikhq: Ping? coppro: Ping? Deewiant: Ping? Does anyone know git? :p 16:32:22 Phantom_Hoover: Well, you're doing well to show you're well inside the technically-incompetent demographic you're talking about. 16:33:02 ...why, because I follow instructions rather than critiquing every step? 16:34:03 Because you follow instructions telling you how to check something out from SVN using a Windows GUI, rather than just checking it out using SVN itself, and then treat being unable to obtain the GUI tool as a roadblock? 16:35:20 Because I took the path of least resistance rather than spending five minutes finding out how to use SVN on Windows? 16:35:41 Wait, why am I even biting. 16:37:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:38:21 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:40:49 FYI, the Subversion site itself links to 3 GUIs, a 32-bit build on SourceForge and a broken page. 16:41:31 If you're going to call me an idiot at least do it properly. 16:42:11 Not a 32-bit build!!! 16:42:32 It's almost as if the vast majority of Windows applications are 32-bit :P 16:42:56 The 32-bit build is the last of five downloads. 16:43:10 Also I know, it makes me feel so unclean. 16:44:09 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:44:29 elliott: what's up? 16:44:32 what do you want to do? 16:44:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:44:47 coppro: if I change the ownership/permissions of a directory tracked by git, will it notice? 16:44:52 i.e. does it track that stuff? 16:44:54 I forget 16:44:56 I think it tracks at least +x 16:45:30 it tracks exactly +x 16:45:54 good, I'm not changing +x :) 16:46:16 "the files all have mode 644 or 755: git actually only pays attention to the executable bit". -- them manual. 16:47:05 Problem 2: about all I know of svn is that you use svn clone to download, and the Windows build apparently doesn't install an svn command. 16:47:19 * elliott wonders if git checkout-index does submodules. 16:47:39 Phantom_Hoover: Maybe you *would* be better off with TortoiseSVN. 16:47:40 Phantom_Hoover: "svn checkout", there is no "svn clone". 16:48:05 (I guess probably: not.) 16:48:09 (re submodules.) 16:49:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:50:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:50:06 fizzie: How would you create a copy of a git repository including submodules without the .git? 16:50:46 * elliott is trying to make Esolang's MediaWiki installation + extensions sourced from the git repos (and maintain LocalSettings.php in it too), but each extension is in a separate git repository, so... 16:50:51 Surely git archive can do it? 16:51:09 (And MediaWiki's upgrade method means that I can't just reasonably maintain it in-place.) 16:51:17 Gregor: Does that do submodules? 16:51:23 submodules are kinda... second-class. 16:51:24 I don't know, but I would assume so. 16:51:30 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:51:32 Out of SHEER OPTIMISM 16:51:41 More to the point, it's worth a try. 16:51:51 Trying things is more difficult than asking people. 16:52:01 Well, then let me answer you this way: 16:52:10 git is fucking terrible, I don't know what it does because I hate it. 16:52:15 Thanks! 16:53:40 All I know about submodules is that I think they're kinda iffy. 16:54:01 fizzie: I don't really like them. But I can't think of a better way to maintain the extension directories. 16:55:34 But if all you need is in the working copy, maybe you could just rsync (or some other git-unaware tool) with suitable ignore rules for everything ".gitty". 16:55:58 s/ignore/exclude/ 16:56:11 fizzie: That would work, but is disgusting. :( 16:56:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:56:45 fizzie: "GIT_WORK_TREE=/blah git checkout" might work. Except that doesn't do submodules either, does it... 16:56:49 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:56:53 Helllo 16:57:09 HELLO 16:57:42 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:58:01 Apparently there are quite a few "git-archive-all" style scripts that do submodules too floating around the tubes. They all suck, of course. (I'm assuming that last part.) 16:58:53 sigh 17:01:07 In Dungeons&Dragons game, I saw a gnome riding on a donkey; I was hiding in the tree. And ask him, who is he? And stay hidden so that they cannot find us. But then the wizard said he knows him his name is Git and he exited from the hiding and then I did too soon afterward 17:01:13 Phantom_Hoover: "svn checkout", there is no "svn clone". 17:01:14 Oh 17:01:46 Yeah I basically don't know anything about RCSes other than that there are like a billion of them and they all make downloading things that bit more complicated. 17:01:54 ... 17:02:03 This is facetious. 17:03:11 And I have read that the git version system was named after its inventor even though that wasn't his name 17:03:18 Git Torvalds 17:03:28 You can just feel zzo's confusion. 17:03:45 -!- Deewiant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:53 Torvalds is just a git, that's all. 17:04:12 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:04:35 Gregor: You realise that's literally the origin of the name, right? 17:07:44 I'm unsurprised, but was unaware. 17:09:38 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:10:14 God, MediaWiki's file layout is incredibly annoying. 17:10:28 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:10:33 I really want to make Rasmus fucking Lerdorf hurt for making people put code in the same directory as data. 17:11:03 (s/data/mutable data/ to appease the Lispers.) 17:12:08 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:14:15 OK, I'll just do the terrible thing. 17:14:27 Wait, that won't work. 17:15:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:15:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:16:32 -!- elliott has joined. 17:16:52 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:24:18 Hmm, this is super annoying. 17:24:28 I... guess I could do fizzie's rsync thing. 17:24:49 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:25:02 Hello 17:25:47 HELLO. 17:31:20 Actually, I couldn't quite do fizzie's rsync thing. 17:31:53 Oh, I could just forget about the .git thing and do 17:32:17 git clone --recursive blah mediawiki-new && cd mediawiki-new && cp -a ../mediawiki/{the,stuff} . && sudo -u www-data php maintanence/update.php 17:32:19 but... ew. 17:41:17 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:42:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:42:10 -!- augur has joined. 17:43:00 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:55:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:55:56 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:56:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:56:58 -!- elliott has joined. 18:02:08 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:02:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:04:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:05:30 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:10:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:13:29 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:13:40 -!- cheater has joined. 18:17:00 -!- cheater has quit (Excess Flood). 18:17:50 -!- cheater has joined. 18:19:00 -!- nortti has joined. 18:30:01 Gregor: You should totally upgrade MediaWiki for me. 18:30:14 ... no. 18:32:11 Gregor: That sounds like "yes" to me! 18:33:11 -!- boily has joined. 18:38:08 -!- nortti has quit. 18:39:11 -!- nortti has joined. 18:40:22 Have you heard about the freedom of speech ranking? Finland, Norway and Sweden are on the first place, USA is on place 22 along with Estonia, Brittain is on the place 31 and on place 179 is North Korea 18:43:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:45 I would respond, but I'd likely be arrestede 18:44:31 Ngevd: where do you live 18:45:01 UK 18:45:23 I'm one of the two Hexhamites 18:45:28 `? Hexham 18:45:31 Hexham? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:47:07 I have found out that freenode only wants SASL certificate from users of the IPS I use 18:48:18 -!- elliott has left ("rage"). 18:49:36 -!- wyldstallyns has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:51:16 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:55:01 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:55:32 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Tanebrb. 18:57:03 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:57:17 -!- elliott has joined. 18:57:20 hi, monqy 18:58:31 Because webchat likes to throw me out at random I will be stalking the logs and commenting if I feels like it. When I really quit I will put qdb.us url as my quit message 18:58:44 hello 18:59:21 other quits just mean that it will take longer for me to answer 18:59:38 how awful 19:00:38 -!- Tanebrb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:39 what do you mean? 19:01:37 -!- cheater has joined. 19:04:50 rip monqy "died doing what he loved best: identifying things" 19:04:54 :( 19:05:32 -!- Tanebrb has joined. 19:05:55 -!- Tanebrb has changed nick to Ngevd. 19:05:56 Hello 19:07:37 hi 19:09:44 monqy: what happened 19:10:01 scrole of immolation 19:10:14 scroll of ded 19:10:17 yes 19:10:27 if i wanted to survive i would have read fog and blinked 19:10:28 but 19:10:32 "who cares about that" 19:11:20 -!- Foggalong has joined. 19:11:25 -!- Foggalong has quit (Client Quit). 19:12:46 hi foggalong 19:12:48 bye foggalong 19:15:10 hi elliott 19:15:18 elliott, tomorrow is DWARF FORTRESS DAY 19:15:18 "Step one: Shave his bullet-deflecting mustache." 19:17:51 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: STUFF). 19:18:46 "I'm an atheist for the next half hour, piss off." 19:21:33 -!- elliott has left. 19:21:44 "The members of The Southern Brotherhood were planning to assassinate Tsar Alexander I when he would be attending military manouevres in Ukraine in 1826. But, in November 1825, the Tsar suddenly died, [thus shitting all over the Brotherhood's plans to kill him]". 19:22:26 good bye, elliott 19:24:20 lolwtf, the page loads, displays, then redirects to a blank page 19:25:51 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:30:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:30:33 -!- elliott has joined. 19:30:47 Oh boy, this MW situation is more of a pain than I thought. 19:31:07 The .gitignore specifically ignores stuff in the extensions directory, and LocalSettings.php. 19:31:13 Can you git add things that are .gitignored? 19:31:22 Does that stop git commit -a from committing them? 19:32:59 Okay, answer to the first question is yes. 19:33:01 Maybe I should just try the second one. 19:33:33 Ah, it does work. 19:33:37 OK, I guess I'll just do that then. 19:33:55 ok, you do that then 19:35:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 19:40:33 "ok, you do that then" -- olsner, 2012 19:41:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:41:12 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric: Surprisingly often, covered in tree sap | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:41:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:43:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:43:27 -!- nortti has joined. 19:43:29 Gregor: More like "I volunteer to upgrade Esolang's MediaWiki installation", am I right? 19:44:11 "git pull" isn't atomic, right? 19:44:14 Err, "git merge" I should say. 19:44:24 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2012/05/02/is-your-teen-browsing-the-pr0n/ 19:44:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:45:28 First off, let’s look at the title: how do you know if your teenage kids are browsing teh pornz? Well, there are easy steps to find out: 19:45:31 Step the first: they are. Period. Full stop. End of list. 19:45:31 great article nortti 19:45:34 "thanks a lote" 19:47:36 Loving how this article completely denies the existence of asexuals. 19:47:49 taneb looks at porn for research purposes only 19:48:08 monqy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_Other_Than_English 19:48:10 thanks, lote 19:48:46 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:48:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote,_Norway 19:48:51 thanks, lote 19:49:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote_Raikabula 19:49:01 thanks, lote 19:49:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote_tree 19:49:08 thanks, lote 19:50:46 Does anyone know how I could get "ssh solidity sudo cat /srv/esolangs.org/www/mediawiki/LocalSettings.php >Localsettings.php" to run without sudo complaining that there's no tty present? 19:50:52 Oh, right, ssh doesn't supply a tty if you give it a command. 19:50:57 That's annoying. I wonder if there's some way to override that. 19:53:04 ah, -t 19:54:06 monqy: wow if you think that article's bad take a look at the one it's responding to 19:54:11 Do They Browse the Web with the Door Closed? 19:54:15 Have they Rearranged their Room so the Monitor Faces Away from the Door? 19:54:18 Do They Get Nervous and Uncomfortable When You Use Their Computer? 19:54:21 Is Your Browser History Periodically Erased? 19:54:35 i didn't even bother looking 19:54:41 i saw the thing i pasted and then just closed it 19:54:46 "enough article for me, monqy" 19:54:53 - me, monqy 19:57:53 I wish I was called me, monq. 19:57:54 I wish I was called me, monqy. 19:58:16 it's a good name to have 19:58:17 monqy: Is your LOS square in real life, too? 19:58:36 i 19:58:38 i don't know D: 19:58:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:59:09 alas 20:00:09 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:01:20 -!- nortti_ has joined. 20:02:12 elliott: ylös 20:02:17 what 20:02:51 in finnish alas=down ylös=up 20:03:03 oops 20:05:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:05:24 hi elliott 20:05:35 apparently "oops" in croatian means "lol" 20:05:40 thanks google translate 20:05:43 oops 20:05:48 I heard you were reading "a poor blog post about haskell" 20:05:52 hi monqy 20:05:53 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:06:07 today I may or may not draw a self portrait of myself 20:06:14 gasp 20:06:18 A self-self-portrait. 20:06:28 so meta 20:06:42 im envisioning the future breakdown of monqy after he is inundated with self portrait requests 20:06:43 *envisions* 20:06:50 monqy: Do you think you could write an autobiography of me sometime? 20:07:04 i dunno 20:07:14 autobiographies are a lot of work! 20:07:23 are you writing autobiographies too 20:07:25 Just a short one then? 20:08:18 "PLEASE SEND YOUR POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS SO THAT I MAY SEND A REPLY FROM PROF. DONALD KNUTH TO YOUR EMAIL TO HIM." 20:08:33 My email had a POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS. 20:10:26 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:14 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Jennefervoc6006 20:11:18 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:26 monqy: Are you going to draw a self-potrrait of kmc? 20:11:31 I think he earned one. 20:12:13 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:16:35 monqy: anyway i was referring to the foreground part not the kitten yes 20:16:38 it still looks familiar to me!!! 20:19:52 Kitten? 20:20:10 Is this a self-portrait that I missed? 20:20:22 -!- nortti has joined. 20:21:01 -!- nortti has quit (Client Quit). 20:24:56 Oh! I want a self-portrait of zzo38, too. 20:25:28 shachaf: Well, I won't give you one; so you have to do it yourself 20:25:44 zzo38: monqy's been drawing self-portraits. 20:25:51 zzo38: He drew great ones of me and elliott. 20:30:19 -!- glogbackup has joined. 20:30:47 monqy: you shouldn't draw any more self-portraits of anyone else its 20:30:50 not sustainable 20:32:20 no monqy 20:32:25 elliotte is just 20:32:26 greedy 20:40:47 Writing objects: 15% (50458/324608), 12.24 MiB | 46 KiB/s 20:40:49 zzzzzzzzzz 20:42:18 haha, cloning from darcs.haskell.org? 20:42:41 nope, pushing to solidity 20:43:04 ok, wow slow anyway 20:43:26 @time olsner 20:43:26 Local time for olsner is Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 20:43:31 @time glogbackup 20:43:33 @time monqy 20:43:34 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 13:43:34 2012 20:43:38 @time ChanServ 20:52:32 Writing objects: 40% (131637/324608), 42.63 MiB | 45 KiB/s 20:52:40 zzzzZZZZzzzzZZzZZZZZZZzzzzzz 20:57:13 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 20:58:43 monqy: travel won't use staircases you haven't gone up?? 20:58:48 ugh 21:00:24 so youtube on linux no longer lets me skip around in videos 21:01:22 > fix pure 21:01:23 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = f a 21:05:20 Phantom_Hoover: Is "cleanup" really a word? 21:05:33 Like, without a - or a space. 21:06:01 something something descriptivism 21:06:03 man 21:06:04 (yes) 21:06:13 It looks so wrong! 21:06:20 But it's in all the dictionaries and everything. 21:06:20 when cleaning up you do a cleanup 21:06:24 And I used it. :( 21:06:32 And I keep wanting to change it. 21:06:36 But I only have 3 minutes to change it. 21:18:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:21:56 The upgrade is onnnnn 21:28:00 helliott 21:32:55 Update complete! 21:32:58 And the main page's style is broken. 21:34:59 -!- itidus22 has joined. 21:35:22 As is the featured icon. 21:37:08 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:49 It is? 21:41:54 Try force-reloading. 21:42:05 Screenshots would be nice if they really aren't messed up for you. 21:42:21 It's broken in both Safari and Firefox for me. 21:44:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:03 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#MediaWiki_1.19_upgrade_and_DNS_change 21:49:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 21:50:20 Sgeo: So does it actually look fine for you? 21:54:38 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:33 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:00:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 22:00:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:02:05 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:06:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:29 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:33 font size 1.6, line height 1.2, margin bottom .1 22:32:04 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 22:33:09 monqy: did you make a self-self-portrait 22:33:12 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:35:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:36:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:36:38 no i was asleep 22:38:19 In Haskell, what does map mean or do? Just wondering, I know it's a very general question and there's probably a lot of things that it does but like generally what is it used for? 22:38:56 elliott: "map" is the secret ingredient that makes Google Maps so good. 22:38:57 Curse whoever you're quoting! 22:39:20 @time monqy 22:39:21 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 15:39:20 2012 22:39:26 monqy: your sleep schedule "not gr8" 22:39:42 hi monqy 22:39:50 :( 22:39:53 busy dreamging up my self portraite????? 22:39:56 monqy: it's ok mine is worse 22:40:41 elliott: Does that mean your self-portrait will be "even better"? 22:42:23 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:36 Did you make a self-self-self-self-portrait? 22:43:27 not yet 22:43:45 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:44:17 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:44:19 the pressure is one 22:44:30 the pressure is two (its rising) 22:46:24 monqy: i upgraded mediawiki while you were asleep 22:46:27 you're welcome 22:46:51 thanks 22:46:55 what's upgrade 22:46:56 you're welcome 22:47:01 it's like downgrade 22:47:02 but up 22:47:05 hth 22:48:48 I once made up a program which implements a grid-based puzzle game engine where you can specify the rules, where each rule consists of: a direction flag, a symmetry flag, an optional input counter, an optional output counter, the initial state, the final state, the game end flag, the input pattern, and the output pattern. 22:49:09 thanks 22:50:12 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:50:47 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:51:42 shachaf: if Google Maps used Haskell then they would know the name of the city where I live 22:52:02 Each pattern is 3x3, and can specify the color, character, both, or neither. In addition, the color and/or character can be "mark". There are seven colors, and the characters are the 1 to 254 of the CP437 set. 22:52:15 Sokoban can be defined using this system using three rules. 22:53:08 monqy: hi 22:53:12 that's 22:53:13 a normal hi 22:53:14 (tm) 22:53:16 hello 22:54:48 hello 22:55:09 What long description should I wrote for "prelude-generalize" package? 22:55:39 ugh, MS codepages 22:55:49 zzo38: write the letter "a" twenty-seven times and then put "b" 22:55:54 you can add a "c" if you feel it necessary 22:56:32 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:56:56 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:57:09 i would be very sceptical about any "d". ask yourself whether you truly need that "d" 22:57:34 Add a 内 for extra points 22:58:42 elliott: Why? But, OK. 22:58:52 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab 22:58:58 Or did you mean by hand? 22:59:14 I meant for your long description. Twenty-eight letters is pretty long. 22:59:16 But you can do it by hand too! 22:59:44 O, that's what you mean. But that isn't a very good description. 23:00:00 Well, you can't have everything. 23:00:02 Lumpio-: I think CP437 is IBM codepage 23:00:45 zzo38++ for CP437 23:00:47 best codepage ever 23:00:50 ook 23:01:00 The term "codepage" itself just sounds overly Microsoftey to me. 23:01:24 i mean "ugh legacy encodings" but it's old 23:03:22 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:04:07 monqy: have you ever found an octopus??? 23:04:18 in an aquarium 23:04:37 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:04:44 wow : ) 23:05:33 monqy: one problem: i don't believe aquariums are real? 23:06:11 monqy: can i comission a self portrait of kmc please 23:06:17 it's like a mission but with the arrows reversed 23:06:51 thonqy in advance 23:07:15 haha this guy just totally fucked up 23:08:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:09:36 wtf why did they do that 23:10:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:11:49 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:11:59 elliott: are you watching crawl? 23:12:05 yes 23:12:08 kmc: glasgow? 23:12:23 xgamer on CDO, i just picked at random because i saw they were on zot 23:12:57 i'll watch too 23:13:33 what? 23:14:55 unless this guy messes up really badly i'm guessing he'll win 23:15:07 monqy: before he zerked a dragon and then 23:15:17 immediately another dragon and another thing came into view 23:15:27 and as soon as he got to them the zerk ran out 23:15:37 why isn't the curse toe tormenting 23:15:40 he lost quite a bit of hp 23:15:43 what 23:15:45 oh, no i don't live in glasgow 23:15:47 why did he berserk there 23:15:51 hgheheheh 23:15:56 glasgow has the third oldest subway system in the world 23:15:59 berserker players remind me of me 23:16:08 kmc: Who has the second oldest and the first oldest? 23:16:16 stalked by a bat and a rat on zot:2 23:16:22 I guess "oldest" is redundant in those sentences. 23:16:22 budapest and london respectively 23:16:27 oh no where is he going 23:16:33 dungeon:1 23:16:38 he's done with this dungeon 23:16:43 "fuck it" - xgamer 23:16:54 * shachaf is off. 23:16:56 in new york they spent like 20 years saying "dude we need rapid transit" without building any 23:17:05 wtf 23:17:14 during this time many companies were born and died and many legislators were bribed 23:17:20 managing his stache, i see 23:18:14 the first rapid transit in New York opened 5 years after the first bit of the London Underground 23:18:24 but it was an elevated railway, and that's all they built for some time 23:19:13 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:19:32 http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beach/ 23:20:05 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:20:51 monqy: does he remember about the orb 23:20:58 he surely forgot 23:21:06 kmc: that logo 23:21:07 too much stache fun 23:21:17 monqy: more like the orb of WHAT!!! 23:21:51 it's just too deep deep down 23:21:52 I can't do it 23:21:58 the first subway part of the today New York City Subway opened in 1904 23:23:14 monqy: how is this guy not bored yet 23:23:22 no clue 23:24:35 HOLY GOD YOUR INVENTORY IS FINE 23:24:39 stop it 23:24:42 *STOP IT 23:24:46 accidentally forgot the capslock 23:25:09 but the railroad tunnel from Grand Central at 42nd St to 96th St opened in 1875 23:25:37 which today carries commuter trains, but at the time was arguably rapid transit, and had some underground stops 23:25:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:26:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:26:37 monqy: he hasn't dropped his potion of slowing 23:26:39 i think 23:26:42 good job 23:26:56 finally 23:27:12 and there was a railroad tunnel in Brooklyn by 1844 23:27:16 but Brooklyn wasn't part of New York yet! 23:27:19 AND NOW YOU KNOW 23:27:19 explore_delay and travel_delay should default to -1 23:28:00 elliott: if you like the Beech Pneumatic logo you may also enjoy this picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Harvey_Cable_Car.jpg 23:28:13 :D 23:28:24 thank you, kmc, your extensive transport knowledge continues to entertain 23:28:42 00:28 death cob[1/5]: You may have already fielded a guess, but it's insane hostile food. It might be corny, but if you put an ear to the ground deep down in Crawl's maize, you may find that you are being stalked; being buttered up for the kill, smooth as silk. 23:28:46 monqy 23:28:50 i 23:28:52 why is he clearing zot aaagh 23:28:58 xgamer stop that 23:29:04 you could use your hi ability 23:29:05 hibility 23:29:15 new york had better transit in 1930 than today :/ 23:29:20 "hi" is monqy for "stop that" 23:29:44 he mapped zot4, maybe he'll dive it 23:29:55 monqy "denialle" 23:30:10 he's not keymashing that bone dragon fast enough 23:30:15 (written before bone dragon deaded) 23:30:42 wow i hope i play less in a less silly manner than this by the time i reach zot 23:30:51 me too 23:31:21 you won 17 times without reaching zot? 23:31:27 did you use scrolls of acquirement to get the orb? 23:31:34 no i hope you play in a less silly manner by the time you reach zot 23:31:36 "i'm gonna go for miscellaneous" "j - the Orb of Zot" "yessssss" 23:31:49 monqy: i prefer my version? 23:32:07 it's a good version 23:32:20 Have you used METAFONT for designing any logos or typefaces? 23:33:17 monqy: why are there death cobs 23:33:35 because 23:33:39 why not ? 23:33:59 deep 23:34:15 i 23:34:22 why did he pick those up 23:34:28 how should i know 23:34:29 what is he DOING 23:34:35 monqy: i didn't ask you!!! 23:34:37 i asked hypothetical 23:34:43 eat in front of the yellow drac yes 23:34:46 eat stealthily 23:35:16 monqy: you know when you crave something SO BAD and you just gotta eat even if you're dying 23:35:18 that happened to xgamer 23:35:35 he's not quite dying yet 23:35:42 hi 23:35:51 monqy: you're always dying when fighting 23:35:53 just very slow 23:35:55 *slowly 23:35:57 *just, 23:36:15 monqy: oh yeah is it true that travel won't use upstairs you haven't used 23:36:22 i guess it makes sense but 23:36:28 going up every upstairs will be so boring 23:36:36 oh i think he might start dying soon 23:36:42 wheee 23:36:52 aww 23:37:08 before i put all my buttons on one button i "stair dipped" 23:37:46 what's that 23:38:05 when you see an unused staircase you go down it then back up 23:38:51 monqy: that's so ugh though :( 23:38:55 i mean i'd just 23:38:58 go up upstairs when i found them instead but 23:39:00 that's still a pain 23:39:15 oh, this will be fun 23:39:24 he's not dying quite yet 23:39:43 i never said that!!! 23:39:45 i said it would be fun 23:39:47 ok 23:39:55 dying is one of but many ways to have fun 23:39:55 this guy plays slow :( 23:39:58 *is but one 23:40:05 monqy: everyone plays slower than you 23:40:17 i'd probably play lower than this on zot (but maybe not when i get to the point of reaching zot) 23:40:20 *slower 23:40:22 uugh typing is hard 23:40:32 cashybrid is faster than me!! 23:40:37 probably Elynae is faster than me too 23:40:44 hey, this tv has "Vrestler" 23:40:51 so titles (if that's what they're called) are translated??? 23:40:54 mystrious 23:40:54 yeah 23:41:02 monqy: isn't cashybrid half bot 23:41:05 yeah 23:41:08 isn't Elynae half bot 23:41:20 that would explain things 23:41:35 two orb guardians for the price of one 23:42:57 rip 23:43:08 monqy: he's dying now right 23:43:17 yes 23:43:25 qyite possibly 23:43:43 it's also quite possibly he's not dying 23:43:44 lol 23:43:59 why 23:44:00 is he walking around 23:44:02 slow and exhausted 23:44:04 and low on hp 23:44:23 because resting in hall of zot is more dangerous than fleeing from it slowed 23:44:32 if you've cleared the rest of the lvel 23:44:49 oh is that where he is 23:44:51 i didn't 23:44:54 "recognise the feature" 23:45:16 i thought that troll was hostile for a second 23:45:22 disappointed it wasn't 23:45:29 like 23:45:32 ooh i wonder what he'll do here 23:45:37 troll just appears from nowhere on zot:5 23:45:38 oh boy 23:45:42 lol 23:45:48 great berserk this 23:45:50 mmmm death drakes 23:46:01 ahahaha 23:46:14 i hope he rteles 23:46:14 oh man 23:46:16 he's rteleing 23:46:17 why doesn't he have any curing 23:46:29 he's just not using it 23:46:30 "Fast+Slow" 23:46:36 what's rtele :( 23:46:39 random teleport 23:46:45 oh 23:47:04 does scroll of teleport do that since it's -cTele 23:47:07 *teleportation 23:47:10 oh he's dead 23:47:12 rip 23:47:14 scroll of tele is by default random 23:47:19 oh right 23:47:20 not dead yet 23:47:24 ok dying 23:47:27 also 23:47:28 but yeah -ctele means no ctele 23:47:29 near starving for some reason 23:47:38 Fast+Slow is what happens when you're hasted and slowed at the same time (it has no effect itself but blocks further hasting and slowing) 23:47:46 moth of wrath 23:47:48 that's the best moth 23:48:18 it used to be that fast and slow just canceled each other but then you could do stuff like re-slow or re-haste 23:48:25 is that really so bad 23:48:34 -!- cswords__ has joined. 23:48:43 oh no where's he going now 23:48:48 o hno is it 23:48:50 time for more 23:48:52 *oh no 23:48:54 stashing 23:49:00 or did he get the orb 23:49:09 if he got the orb he'd have a glowy purp halo 23:49:13 nope it's stash time 23:49:17 this guy is 23:49:23 all about the stashes 23:49:30 also why is his stash on lair:2 that's kinda weird 23:49:37 does he notice you sent him a message mysteries of life 23:49:41 lair:2 is a popular stash location 23:49:51 because monsters that use items don't spawn on lair:2 23:49:59 oh don't they? that's clever 23:49:59 lair:1 gets stair spawns from the dungeon 23:50:12 couldn't they walk down to lair:2 too 23:50:15 no 23:50:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:50:18 i think people have gotten jellies from dungeon on lair:1 23:50:21 hmm, why not 23:50:23 "goodbye, stash" 23:50:32 they spawn on the branch exit stairs 23:50:40 and monsters don't do interlevel travel by themselves 23:50:41 * ion is tempted to plawl, but there’s a bunch of lectures to be watched and a bunch of homework to be done. 23:50:52 ion: why plawl when you can wlawl 23:50:54 monqy: ugh that 23:50:55 hit _ 23:50:56 in the corner 23:50:58 is bugging me 23:51:01 send him something else so he notices 23:51:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:23 lots of people don't notice the Hit _ and it's so annoying 23:51:37 you ahve to do something!!! 23:51:38 *have 23:51:44 it should flash 23:51:49 yes 23:51:53 -!- cswords_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:51:55 please send hi msomething oh god what if he 23:51:56 i've bugged the devs about it before 23:51:58 wins with a hit _ 23:52:01 that would 23:52:02 ruin the win 23:52:05 * ion would wawl but you’re not plawl. 23:52:11 ion: it's xgamer we're watching 23:52:16 (Hit _) makes deaths instantly hilarious 23:52:16 ok 23:52:22 monqy: PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!! :'( 23:52:32 Do we know xgamer? 23:52:33 ion: ok you send him a message as soon as he stops fighting 23:52:35 no we don't 23:52:37 i dunno if sending another message redisplays the hit _ message 23:52:39 i just noticed him since he was on zot 23:52:44 monqy: it doesn't but it displays it in the 23:52:46 message scroller thing 23:52:51 i think 23:53:02 did he really just tweak skills on zot 23:53:32 hhhhhhhhhh 23:53:40 SOMEONE DO SOMETHING this is a humanitarian crisis 23:53:41 i've bugged devs about having blinking (Hit _) or at least more noticeably colored (Hit _) or a force_more by default on the beep! your pager goes off but nobody listened 23:53:50 monqy: maybe i'll send them a patch 23:53:54 i sent another message and it didn't do anything 23:54:09 this is tormenting me every single second i can't enjoy the game like this 23:54:15 elliott: you can try bugging him; he's in ##crawl 23:54:17 Yeah, the (Hit _) should be more noticeable. 23:54:21 monqy: or maybe you could!! 23:54:34 monqy: i mean blinking is 23:54:34 I've grown to like the (Hit _) 23:54:37 really annoying though 23:54:41 This level looks a lot like a Zot Defense level. 23:54:44 so maybe they'll hit _!!!! 23:54:46 the force_more thing might be better 23:54:57 monqy: or maybe they'll get a headache 23:55:05 actually what it should do is 23:55:07 instead of force_more 23:55:08 it should be 23:55:10 when i said blinking i meant 23:55:10 force_press_underscore 23:55:12 elemental coloured 23:55:12 I’d hate it if everyone could keep force_moreing me on a whim. :-P 23:55:20 monqy: by blinking i meant 23:55:21 but elemental colour is a technical term you might not know 23:55:25 blinking 23:55:26 as in 23:55:27 the terminal attribute 23:55:29 oh 23:55:36 what's elemental colour 23:55:46 My terminal doesn’t support blinking text AFAIU. 23:55:53 it probably does 23:56:01 monqy: you sent the messages you bug him in ##crawl >:( 23:56:01 it's a "colour" that's really a bunch of colours that change when crawl refreshes 23:56:09 right, that would be better 23:56:27 elliott: you send some messages and then bug him in ##crawl if it bothers you so much! 23:56:39 monqy: you know it bothers you too!!! 23:56:41 imagine if he wins like this 23:56:43 you'll be agonised 23:56:46 :( 23:57:11 no i'll like it 23:57:12 ok done 23:57:15 let's just hope he 23:57:16 checks IRC 23:57:24 best part is when he starts a new game and then gets the messages there 23:57:27 preferably after dying horribly 23:57:44 why isn't he checking ##crawl nooooo 23:59:01 monqy: what did you send partially end my agony 23:59:10 hi, twice 23:59:22 at different points 23:59:23 good choice 23:59:33 maybe i'll send it again if this goes south 23:59:37 ooh, frail! 23:59:43 what's frail 2012-05-04: 00:00:04 maxhp-10% per mutlevel 00:01:49 maybe he'll splat on the orb run 00:02:04 did he get the orb 00:02:06 yeah 00:02:08 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:02:11 wow, quaffing might instead of dropping sutff to get rid of his burden 00:02:11 damn i missed it 00:02:13 oh nice 00:02:22 monqy: :D 00:02:27 this guy is so good 00:02:49 might expired, mmmm 00:02:53 hopefully he gets mothzerked 00:02:54 ahahahahahaha 00:03:03 monqy: do those moths zerk 00:03:29 they have "rage" melee which berks stuff they hit and they also berk stuff in los 00:03:33 great 00:03:38 so you get stuff like berserk orb guardians, which hurt 00:03:43 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:04:12 monqy: btw 00:04:12 01:03 !lg * tiles 0.10 ntv=0 ktyp!=quitting|leaving|winning killer!=tentacled monstrosity|greater naga|naga warrior max=xl -tv 00:04:16 what is with the killer exclusions here 00:05:06 exclusion of constriction deaths; presumably tiles players die to constriction in a boring predictable fassion, thus its exclusion 00:05:45 -!- itidus20 has joined. 00:05:46 im glad i never had the desire to use tiles for a roguelike ever 00:06:43 wow use G1 not X< aaagh 00:06:45 er 00:06:47 GD1 00:06:49 or whatever 00:06:49 aagh 00:06:53 what's wrong with X1 (just so I know) 00:07:01 oh because it can use upstairs that are closer to other upstairs? 00:07:05 GD1, that is 00:07:13 also 00:07:15 what's up with that D:21 00:07:21 X< is bad because it only goes one level at a time so you go through the dungeon slowly and have to do it each level 00:07:26 GD1 goes to dungeon level 00:07:26 1 00:08:00 well slowly howso 00:08:02 i mean 00:08:04 in realtime sure 00:08:08 or is that what you meant 00:08:12 in realtime yes 00:08:19 orb run is for the most part real boring 00:08:44 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:08:47 but sometimes it can be crazy if you get, say, a silly powerful panlord 00:08:58 or a 1 or two on a weak character 00:09:08 are 9s anything 00:09:12 statues 00:09:15 why is TeX so beautiful 00:09:16 er 00:09:18 gargoiels 00:09:20 not statues 00:09:20 i like how that guy didn't 00:09:22 statues are 8 00:09:22 cut the corner 00:09:33 (i dont either but) 00:09:38 (it still bugs me when i see others not) 00:09:53 it's bugging me that he's not dying 00:10:01 at this rate he'll ascend with (Hit _) 00:10:10 "A sufficiently persistent player will eventually rack up a couple wins with their Felid Chaos Knight that remains loyal to Xom no matter what, but that doesn't change the fact that felids are terrible and Xom is terrible and they aren't any better when you put them together." 00:10:13 maybe i'll just play feck of feck 00:10:17 (im addicted to reading stupid tavern threads now oops) 00:10:21 oops 00:10:57 i see nobody's done a 15-rune feck 00:10:58 oops 00:10:59 did he win 00:11:00 oh no 00:11:18 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:11:42 01:11 ah didn't see :( was too involved in the game 00:11:45 monqy: :'( 00:11:48 :') 00:11:56 cries 00:11:58 hits everything 00:11:59 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:12:15 Now back to homowork. 00:18:23 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:20:17 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:21:34 elliott: You can type ca to CHOP ALL THE CORPSES. 00:22:03 that sure sounds useful eh 00:25:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:26:10 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:27:54 What the hell is his conversation even about? 00:28:07 hi 00:28:13 murder 00:28:32 That's a terrible title for a game 00:28:40 it's not a game 00:28:42 it's real life 00:28:51 #realtalk 00:30:57 Ah, Crawl 00:31:34 no 00:31:34 murder 00:31:36 crawl is just our cover 00:31:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:31:52 Matrix of Solidity would be a great title for a game. 00:32:28 elliott: *nod* Just like Quake back in the day 00:32:37 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:35:00 7/9 00:35:05 9/6 00:35:06 eeeeh 00:35:16 monqy: how bad is EV 6 00:35:24 I forget 00:35:25 ! 00:36:14 :( 00:36:51 monqy: should i keep the chain mail on 00:36:57 train armour if you want better ac/ev (you want better ac/ev) 00:36:57 uhhh 00:36:59 dunno! 00:37:20 i was gonna train unarmed combat to 10 before training other things but 00:37:23 maybe i should train armour as well 00:37:37 training uc to 10 is sensible too 00:37:43 at least 00:37:46 i think it's sensible?? 00:38:01 i just picked 10 arbitrarily (i kept it on after that but i trained other thniings too) 00:38:05 *things 00:38:09 i don't really know what i'm doing :( 00:38:24 :( 00:38:43 no but that sounds pretty reasonable 00:38:57 okbut in that case maybe i should switch back to the other armour for now :'( 00:39:14 do whatever feels right??? i dunnnno 00:39:39 i wish i could split it like 00:39:40 80%/20% 00:40:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:41:03 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:41:44 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Madoka-Kaname. 00:42:01 _One of your 3 potions of curing freezes and shatters! 00:42:05 creibriadoses 00:42:39 also im 00:42:41 "hav to go now" 00:42:45 we will miss you 00:42:46 "or soon" 00:42:46 rip 00:42:47 "or something" 00:42:52 perhaps one day monqy will return to us 00:42:56 @time monqy 00:42:57 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 17:42:56 2012 00:43:01 perhaps never 00:43:12 monqy: is clarity good 00:46:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:46:43 wow menkaure was weak 00:46:58 _h - a scroll labeled PNYVEGAPRO {tried on scroll labeled PNYVEGAPRO} 00:46:59 meta 00:47:23 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:47:25 uuugh stupid jelly 00:48:47 monqy: You finish putting on the cursed -4 cloak of the Fifty Eyes {+Blink MR Str+1}. 00:48:50 thanks, Crawl 00:49:03 thawl 00:49:12 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliptiott. 00:49:23 :-D 00:49:32 01:48 every time i see elliott i think i see elliptic 00:49:35 yesss my devious plan is working 00:49:49 great, I don't even have remove curse :D 00:50:17 Not going to get a god? 00:50:43 sure I am 00:50:46 just thinking about which to go with 00:50:50 ashey was kinda disappointing 00:51:13 in that sure seeing monsters behind walls and stuff was nice but it never actually got me out of a tight spot 00:51:24 also the cursing stuff was annoying 00:51:35 so i'm considering going with makhleb again 00:51:39 otoh 00:51:43 sacrificing corpses is annoying too! 00:51:46 and at least cursing is more one-time 00:52:04 what 00:52:19 well 00:52:21 at least i'm rid of that cloak 00:52:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:52:58 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:54:43 playing again 00:55:57 Have you tried vacuuming the dungeon for Nemelex yet? 00:56:01 no 00:56:06 Have you tried a deep elf summoner yet? 00:56:09 no 00:56:28 I'm sticking with GhMo until i win it 00:56:54 You may choose your destination (press '.' or delete to select). 00:56:54 Huh. 00:56:55 Why? 00:56:57 Oh. 00:57:02 Yay! 00:58:23 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:59:20 Oh, what? 00:59:22 Lame. 00:59:37 -!- Deewiant has joined. 00:59:52 ? 01:00:17 I quaffed a potion of gain strength but instead I just decomposed because it counts as a mutation. 01:00:57 brb 01:02:04 back 01:02:38 Fuck my life. 01:02:59 Oh come on... 01:03:13 I expected you to move left. :-\ 01:03:23 Yeah, I should have. 01:03:25 But I was an idiot. 01:03:36 Again. 01:03:45 DESu 01:03:47 ! 01:04:02 What? 01:04:09 Play a DESu. 01:04:13 No. That's idiotic. 01:05:00 This game sounds insane 01:05:44 Crawl? It's not *that* weird. 01:05:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:05:56 telnet crawl.develz.org 345, then w and select elliott's letter if you want to see. 01:06:44 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:07:04 Ooh. 01:07:08 Bind \{6}armour\{13} to a free key such as “1”. 01:07:13 No. 01:07:13 solarized-dark is probably the wrong color scheme for this :D 01:07:16 I don't have any configuration changes. 01:07:28 Actually, not so bad 01:07:37 You don’t even need to change configuration. 01:07:44 Hit… err, was it ` or ~ 01:08:23 What the hell, adder? 01:09:25 I use 1 for searching for armour, 2 for searching for my main weapon (e.g. axes) and 3 for searching for corpses i can eat/offer. 01:09:37 I handle corpses as I make them. 01:09:46 (That sounds badass.) 01:09:52 Hi, Terence. 01:09:58 Me, too, except when i fight a bunch of guys at once or simply forget. 01:10:04 what are you playing now 01:10:05 ghmo of ??? 01:10:18 Patashu: Of nothing. I haven't found the Temple yet. 01:10:24 what do you plan on taking 01:10:39 Probably Makhleb. 01:10:40 You should also play a hill orc monk for the hilarious bot messages on ##crawl. 01:10:43 cool 01:10:47 My experience with Ashenzari was disappointing. 01:10:52 also 01:10:58 if you got 5/6 star ash piety ash is good 01:11:01 but you never bound yourself enough 01:11:04 so, try him again sometime 01:11:09 maybe with a non-monk 01:11:12 so you can bind your weapon 01:11:16 What do they give with max piety? 01:11:18 (and/or shield) 01:11:22 really really long range divination 01:11:25 Shield? I'm UC. 01:11:32 you can use bucklers as UC 01:11:46 I gather it's annoying to. 01:11:57 the penalty is really low 01:12:00 and bucklers are nice 01:12:31 Anyway, Makhleb's combat abilities seem more useful than Ashenzari's divination abilities for a melee fighter to me. 01:12:45 What's the significance of the stars after Ghoul? 01:12:50 piety 01:12:53 Ah 01:12:54 Piety; it's how much my god likes me. 01:12:55 he's a monk so he starts with ** 01:12:59 even though he doesn't worship yet 01:13:02 Cool 01:13:03 But since I don't have a god right now, it's greyed-out. 01:13:50 Unique party! 01:13:53 So is Crawl just netback with more weirdness and Sierra-like dickishness 01:13:54 ? 01:13:59 *nethack 01:14:04 Crawl isn't all that much like NetHack. 01:14:25 patashu: Oh? That’s cool. I guess that has been done within the last six months. 01:14:35 nihilist: it's not much like nethack 01:14:44 if you want a game like playing nethack, I recommend adom 01:15:10 Compare this game to something, I suppose. I might like to play. 01:15:21 NihilistDandy: Crawl is like NetHack but with larger maps and probably more grinding; it's more regular in that there's fewer spoilers that aren't monster statistics. 01:15:22 crawl is like 01:15:28 a roguelike that's actually fun to play unspoiled 01:15:30 I guess 01:15:30 It's also probably easier. 01:15:33 Oh, sweet 01:15:39 Patashu: I don't think so. 01:15:40 you don't need to memorize like 01:15:45 the cost of things in shops before they're identified 01:15:46 or 01:15:48 I would get frustrated if I didn't ask Henzell about new monsters I encounter. 01:15:53 what all these scrolls will do when read while confused 01:15:54 and so on 01:16:04 Oops, I wielded a scroll. 01:16:07 yeah, crawl is definitely more fun with henzell/gretell 01:16:08 lol 01:16:26 NihilistDandy: FWIW, Crawl is probably the most popular roguelike. 01:16:43 I just killed two jackals with a piece of paper. 01:16:52 congratulations 01:16:55 And what with hanging out in #haskell and #esoteric, you know popularity is my first concern :D 01:16:59 elliott: No, you didn’t. You killed them with your secondary claw attack. 01:17:05 ion: Oh. :( 01:17:09 How do I just wield paper? 01:17:27 you can't 01:17:32 Crawl sucks. 01:17:34 no way to turn off aux attacks 01:18:10 NihilistDandy: If you want to play and you're in America, you might like to play on crawl.akrasiac.org instead. 01:18:24 Since it's in America. 01:18:40 I still need to make a Scumbag Ola Bini image 01:18:43 Amurka 01:18:46 Sgeo: Please don't. 01:19:07 xl7 zig 01:19:07 go 01:19:14 Patashu: I don't have the money. :( 01:19:38 lol 01:19:41 offensive scroll of immo 01:19:54 NihilistDandy: Also Crawl has autoexplore and autofight. 01:19:59 ^ 01:19:59 Which makes the grinding aspect a lot less tedious. 01:20:01 the two best things about crawl 01:20:08 Now that is a selling point 01:20:11 it would be better if grinding was eliminated 01:20:13 (In case you thought I was actually pressing the direction keys that quickly.) 01:20:15 but making the grinding trivial is just as good 01:20:32 (The autofight isn't anything magically special, it just does the attack you would do yourself in one turn.) 01:20:35 also 01:20:38 (So you can spam tab a lot for weaker stuff.) 01:20:40 crawl tells you what monsters will probably be a tough fight for you 01:20:44 No it doesn't. 01:20:45 dark gray, gray, yellow, red 01:20:47 yes it does 01:20:47 It lies freely. 01:20:48 the name colours 01:20:52 it does indeed 01:20:54 but it at least tries 01:20:57 also, you're about to die 01:20:58 yeah 01:21:06 I like how I had curing and heal wounds. 01:21:10 grats I guess 01:21:14 elliott: DESu! 01:21:14 Let's try that again. 01:21:18 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:21:38 did you leave stealth on 01:21:43 ok 01:21:44 carry on 01:21:45 NihilistDandy: (You'll have to q and select the letter again if you want to keep watching.) 01:21:58 NihilistDandy: Oh, and Crawl comes with a lot of interface tweaks compared to NetHack. 01:22:07 So I'm seeing 01:22:10 I'm playing with stock configuration and the autopickup, colours, travel etc. are all more or less how I like them. 01:22:13 Kinda digging this 01:22:32 Colors are inline with my terminal colors, so that's good enough for me :D 01:22:34 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:22:35 another favourite feature of crawl of mine 01:22:41 is the ability to put forced pauses on regexes 01:22:49 so I can tell the game I want it to pause whenever I miscast a spell 01:22:50 Yay, plate. 01:22:53 or whenever two slime creatures merge 01:22:56 or whatever silly thing I die because of 01:22:58 often 01:23:08 I couldn't do that because I'd have to put every message on pause. 01:23:19 you really don't 01:23:24 It was a joke. 01:23:26 ah 01:23:27 The joke is that I die from everything. 01:23:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:51 Do butterflies ever attack under any circumstances? 01:23:54 no 01:23:56 they have no attack 01:24:00 The only person Sequell knows to have tied from a butterfly is by inner flame. 01:24:05 yes 01:24:17 Can you give them attacks? :( 01:24:31 -!- augur has joined. 01:24:52 NihilistDandy: Also: Crawl has Xom. 01:25:01 you could modify the game to give them an attack 01:25:04 but you'd be playing offline 01:25:34 NihilistDandy: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Xom (Henzell links to this in its Xom entry so I'm guessing it's not as terrible as some of the wiki.) 01:26:11 not everything in the wiki is bad 01:26:14 mostly it's the advice that's bad 01:27:25 Pained a rat to death. Neat 01:27:46 NihilistDandy: (Not to say that Crawl isn't entirely free of Sierra-style stuff, btw; it's quite possible for a monster to decide to show up rather before it's reasonable to.) 01:27:49 (Particularly the uniques.) 01:28:00 (But you can run away. Well, most of the time.) 01:28:28 Glad I didn't put that on. 01:29:15 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:29:57 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:34:48 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:35:06 I'm dead. 01:35:14 no you aren't 01:35:47 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:35:53 Time for ultimate tedium. 01:36:41 Do goliath beetles heal? 01:36:47 yeah 01:36:50 How fast? 01:36:56 fast as anything else I guess 01:37:44 Hmm. 01:37:48 Maybe I'll enchant that plate armour for later. 01:39:19 you should enchant secondary pieces of armour first 01:39:22 since you're the least likely to replace thrm 01:39:28 even plate might be replaced by dragon scale or cpa 01:39:38 hint 01:39:40 gnolls have spears 01:39:44 Yeah, oops. :( 01:39:53 why are you fighting them 01:40:00 Add ”hits you from afar” to force_more_messages. 01:40:02 Because I have no viable getaway plan? 01:40:03 yes 01:40:06 really? 01:40:09 where's theu pstairs 01:40:10 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:40:21 Far away enough that they'd kill me. 01:40:21 you could walk to there 01:40:26 they're the same speed as you 01:40:31 Yes, but they have spears. 01:40:38 they WERE a tile away from you 01:40:41 until you decided to fight them 01:40:42 They're not now. 01:40:45 great 01:40:47 hp? 01:40:58 you can take a hit 01:41:00 go run 01:41:01 I'll just blink or tele. 01:41:20 Or run, I guess, but that's riskier. 01:41:28 tele is risky on a mostly uncleared level 01:41:48 By blink or tele, I meant blink. :p 01:41:57 imo waste of a blinking scroll but ok 01:42:27 If I die, it's your fault. 01:42:56 Nice. 01:43:01 get behind cover 01:43:05 Yeah, yeah, I know. 01:43:07 ok 01:43:22 mmm, hp for eating 01:43:24 I have to play ghoul now 01:43:29 It's great. 01:43:33 'down time what's that' 01:43:52 So what is the penalty for a buckler exactly? 01:43:57 it's pretty low 01:44:02 let me see if I can back that up with numbers 01:44:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:44:26 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdHFWbVpnU3F6M2VlQWV5Rk56UDNaNHc#gid=1 01:44:46 it looks like at shields 5 the penalty for buckler wearing vanishes 01:45:06 Shit, cursed ring of protection -2 01:45:11 you'll be fine 01:45:20 try all your scrolls 01:46:03 And a +2 robe 01:46:04 Nice 01:47:01 And curse removed 01:47:24 Need a corpse soon, thugh 01:47:26 *though 01:48:50 NihilistDandy: What server are you playing on? 01:49:13 elliptiott: The first one you linked. Just died, though. Dropped through an escape hatch surrounded by monsters :/ 01:49:33 * elliptiott will watch if you play again. 01:49:33 77 NihilistDandy the Grave Robber (level 2, -1/19 (20) HPs) 01:49:33 Began as a Ghoul Necromancer on May 4, 2012. 01:49:33 Slain by a goblin 01:49:33 ... wielding a +0,+0 orcish club 01:49:33 (4 damage) 01:49:34 ... on Level 3 of the Dungeon. 01:49:34 The game lasted 00:24:08 (1013 turns). 01:49:41 Yeah, try not to fall down escape hatches :P 01:49:49 I have no idea how suboptimal that is :D 01:50:19 Playing again, though 01:50:26 Thoughts on race and class? 01:50:37 Uhhh... ask Patashu. 01:50:44 I started out as a Mummy Chaos Knight. 01:50:51 That's not an endorsement of Mummy Chaos Knights. 01:50:55 For the love of god, don't play a Mummy Chaos Knight. 01:50:55 lol 01:51:30 NihilistDandy, the Vampire Assassin 01:51:35 "The Sneak 01:51:36 " 01:51:38 FWIW, the combinations that are Bad are greyed out. 01:51:43 Once you pick a species or background. 01:51:43 non-trivially suboptimal (just kidding im not at all aware of it) 01:51:51 That doesn't mean the remaining combinations are Good. 01:51:56 Righto 01:51:56 But it means they're not Bad. 01:52:10 NihilistDandy: Ugh. 01:52:14 Can you save and reconnect? 01:52:17 With TERM=xterm. 01:52:25 Right now it's using terminal codes that make all your grey messages appear black to other terminals. 01:52:33 Oh, sure. Just a second 01:52:34 if you like hitting things hard, play a minotaur berserker or hill orc berserker. if you like casting spells and running away from things, try spriggan wizard or spriggan venom mage 01:52:38 Because of silly tailor-to-the-terminal-you're-using stuff. 01:52:42 (Ctrl+S is save.) 01:52:56 I hear MiBe is really easy. 01:53:01 That's why I can NEVER PLAY IT EVER. 01:53:01 I have a mibe win 01:53:03 it's pretty easy 01:53:23 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:53:33 Better? 01:53:42 Dunno; you'll have to keep playing to tell. 01:53:57 Yes, better. 01:54:00 You don't want those. 01:54:07 Also, "c" over a corpse to chop it into edible chunks. 01:54:20 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:54:22 Shall do 01:54:25 Which isn’t useful for vampires. 01:54:25 NihilistDandy: Seriously, drop that leather armour and spear :P 01:54:30 ion: Oh, right. 01:54:43 NihilistDandy: Uhh, dropping things takes one turn per item though. 01:54:46 So be wary of doing that around monsters. 01:55:03 NihilistDandy: Try q. 01:55:05 Oh, you have no potions of use. 01:55:15 You should have picked that gnoll off with a blowgun, really :) 01:55:24 Yeah, probably 01:55:28 Gnolls are particularly nasty, so don't worry too much. 01:55:31 Try a less kynäniska berserker. 01:55:59 I second the MiBe recommendation, despite having no experience with it. 01:56:15 A lot of other combinations will require quite a bit more delicacy early on, methinks. 01:56:21 Also, TrBe is a tank. 01:56:34 NihilistDandy: Also, with berserkers you worship Trog! He loves bloodshed and hates magic. 01:56:37 It might be fun in the early game. 01:56:39 And you get to go berserk, which makes everything go red and you get stronger. 01:56:49 (You get exhausted afterwards, but oh well.) 01:56:57 That's Life (tm) 01:57:04 Just found a dagger of speed. That's neat 01:57:14 Yes, you get exhausted after berserking just like in real life. 01:57:32 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:57:35 NihilistDandy: Also, with ghouls you regain HP when eating. 01:57:39 Don't eat when your HP is full. 01:57:43 Magic, too, sometimes 01:57:45 (That doesn't apply to other races.) 01:58:27 NihilistDandy: BTW, G is the travel command. So once you've fully explored, G> gets you down quickly. 01:58:40 Oh, cool 02:00:16 NihilistDandy: Press p if you want to convert to Ashey. 02:00:21 Ah 02:01:02 (It likes you cursing your items (which just means you can't take them off).) 02:01:12 (In return you get info about the map and monsters nearby and the like.) 02:01:16 Interesting god 02:01:35 (Also changing god brings down the wrath of the previous god on you, so you're pretty much stuck with Ashenzari.) 02:01:37 Hit ^ to see your boundness. 02:01:52 Damn 02:02:22 MiBe. Or TrBe. Or somethingBe. 02:02:29 Seriously, play MiBe or something :P 02:02:34 I'll give it a shot 02:02:52 NihilistDandy: Oh yeah, you probably want to press m and adjust your skills. 02:02:59 You can berserk with a. 02:03:02 Patashu and ion can advise about the best skills for MiBe. 02:03:08 axes 02:03:09 lots of axes 02:03:13 Don't use the arrow keys, just use the letters. :p 02:03:17 NihilistDandy: Yeah, turn everything btu axes off. 02:03:22 Press something twice to turn it off. 02:03:31 and swap away from hthat hand axe asap, it's shit 02:03:47 war axe, broad axe, battleaxe and executioner's axe from worst to best 02:03:48 Switch to manual mode to make sure only axes are trained. 02:04:31 (But you might want to train fighting and armour as well at least at some point.) 02:04:51 I hear Fighting got seriously nerfed recently. 02:04:58 Oh, ok. 02:05:05 don't train fighting until about xl16 02:05:06 imo 02:05:21 You can move and fight diagonally with yubn. 02:05:31 (or with tab!) 02:05:36 Moving with hjkl when there’s an enemy diagonally next to you gives them free hits. 02:05:53 And escaping with hjkl when you want to move diagonally gives them free hits also. 02:06:00 I bet NihilistDandy is using arrow keys. 02:06:08 Maybe 02:06:15 Don't do that. You'll die. 02:06:20 Fair enough 02:06:44 Don't convert to Ashey this time. Trog doesn't like that. :p 02:07:07 Now hit a. Trog likes it when you burn spellbooks. 02:07:14 Don't hit a yet. 02:07:16 He didn't get the book. 02:07:21 you don't have to get it 02:07:22 No, you’re not supposed to. 02:07:23 it juts has to be in los 02:07:29 It was out of LOS when I said that, I think. 02:07:40 NihilistDandy: Yeah, hit a*. 02:07:41 Oops. 02:07:42 Go back to the colon. 02:07:46 That was teh book. 02:07:49 Look at the piety meter. 02:07:52 Then a* 02:07:56 *the 02:08:00 f 02:08:08 Nice :D 02:08:16 Okay, that didn't actually get you a star of piety. But it got you a fraction of one! 02:08:22 The more piety you get, the more nice abilities you get. 02:08:23 The leather armour is better than your animal skin. 02:08:46 d, to drop useless items, but you usually don’t need to drop rotting chunks since they’ll just rot away. 02:10:00 When in the situation @.X where X is an enemy, don’t move toward her. Let her move toward you. You’ll get the first hit. 02:10:03 Chain mail. 02:10:05 Get that chain mail. 02:10:23 nice 02:10:27 NihilistDandy: (Use . to wait a turn. Also, 5 makes you rest to restore HP, which is useful if you run out of it and there's nothing dangerous around.) 02:10:28 Ooh, nice. 02:10:32 You should maybe train armour soon. 02:10:38 Depending on what your EV's like now. 02:10:45 Oh, 7. 02:10:47 That's not so bad. 02:11:00 You gave it two free hits. 02:11:18 Don’t go down yet. 02:11:48 No. 02:11:52 Ring mail is worse than chain. 02:11:59 Especially a +4 chain mail. :-P 02:12:08 Scale vs ring? 02:12:14 it goes like this: 02:12:24 skin/robe, leather, ring, scale ,chain, splint, plate, dragon/crystal 02:12:25 NihilistDandy: /msg Henzell ??scale mail 02:12:27 NihilistDandy: /msg Henzell ??ring mail 02:12:30 More AC is better. 02:12:32 well, not all dragon armours 02:12:34 some are meant for casters 02:12:39 The lower the EV is the better you have to be at armour to wear it effectively. 02:12:43 Cool 02:13:51 (Also, see ??butterfly for the most important warning in the game.) 02:14:04 (And ??butterfly[2], etc. for the next pages.) 02:14:20 Jesus 02:14:47 * elliptiott has now proudly set NihilistDandy up for a life of avoiding butterflies. 02:14:54 Don’t drop the plate armour. 02:14:55 Forever 02:15:03 Plate armour is good. 02:15:13 But you're probably not good enough to use it yet. 02:15:21 NihilistDandy: Try Ctrl+F axe to search for axes. 02:15:26 You might have missed some. 02:15:32 Okay, nothing. 02:15:37 And use diagonal movement. :-P 02:15:38 (It searches everything you've seen.) 02:16:15 ion: I'm acclimating to vi-style :P 02:16:27 Numpad also works (but I'll laugh at you). 02:16:38 I also don't have a numpad, per se 02:17:05 Some people use numpad with the top number row. 02:17:16 That sounds like the work of a crazy person 02:17:17 NihilistDandy: If it lists an item, hit its letter and . to travel to it. 02:17:39 (And if you get interrupted, G to continue.) 02:18:08 When in the situation @.X where X is an enemy, don’t move toward her. Let her move toward you. You’ll get the first hit. 02:18:19 NihilistDandy: Read those scrolls, man. 02:18:22 (To identify them.) 02:18:32 (r works too, and is quicker.) 02:18:46 Preferably with a weak enemy in sight, so certain scrolls that affect them are identified. 02:18:51 Generally you should try and use them on potions (to discover a scroll of identify), or if you know identify then armour or something. 02:19:01 ion: I don't bother doing that. :p 02:19:13 And preferably wearing a ring or an amulet, so the scroll that curses them is identified. 02:19:16 Whoa, what happened to your display there? 02:19:21 Oh, there you go. 02:19:23 And preferably wearing something that’s cursed, so the scroll of remove curse is identified. 02:19:26 Blink is an instant micro-teleport. 02:19:30 It's useful for running away. 02:19:43 That's a delayed random teleport. 02:19:59 Again, r is the same as ir, but faster :P 02:20:14 Ah, a multi-use identify scroll. 02:20:16 Try it on i. 02:20:20 Since you tried it and it didn't id itself. 02:20:30 Good thing, too. 02:20:50 Should I keep id'ing things? 02:20:58 Pretty much. 02:21:03 I id scrolls when I pick them up. 02:21:09 The potions are the most important to id. 02:21:11 You can read-id scrolls. 02:21:22 But it's not nice to have to quaff-id potions at random when you're about to die. 02:21:44 d, to drop the useless potion. 02:21:55 I keep my red potions. 02:21:58 Just in case. 02:22:02 just in case what 02:22:28 Just in case. 02:22:34 bad potions are only useful to characters who learn the spell 'evaporate' 02:22:37 NihilistDandy: Take that helmet and wear it. 02:22:42 He can’t. 02:22:42 Avoid the ring until you id it. 02:22:48 Oh, minotaurs are special? Okay. 02:22:48 I wouldn’t. :-P 02:22:52 Well, I wouldn't either. 02:22:58 I was trying to instil good habits. 02:23:10 Patashu: Just in case I ever need to be slow, or degenerated, or poisoned. 02:23:21 Umm… shit? 02:23:29 Ah, Sigmund. 02:23:38 I’d run away for now and come back when i’m more badass. 02:23:40 You can either run or try to take him. 02:23:47 Yeah, probably best to run. 02:23:47 Oh, i remembered you have berserk. 02:23:52 Oh, right. 02:23:58 Still only a hand axe. 02:24:01 What's your axes skill like? 02:24:15 4.7? 02:24:21 Well, you can go for it. But you might die :P 02:24:22 Be careful, though. 02:24:30 Walk up to one square next to him slowly in case anything happens. 02:24:32 Don’t give him free shots. 02:24:48 Well, actually. 02:24:51 Leave a space between you and him, like ion says. 02:24:56 One down again. 02:25:02 Okay, aa 02:25:03 Now berserk. 02:25:07 To go berserk. 02:25:12 Press . 02:25:13 Now . 02:25:19 Ugh. 02:25:22 Go down one. 02:25:24 Now just whack him. 02:25:26 Watch your HP meter. 02:25:32 Yay. 02:25:34 Nice 02:25:40 You probably didn't need the berk after all, but... 02:25:46 Not sure what to increase for minotaurs. 02:25:55 Ask Patashu. :p 02:25:58 Or ion, but he's inferior. 02:26:15 ion: What would Patashu say to do? 02:26:22 Patashu: What would ion say to do? 02:26:26 I WILL NEVER SOLVE THIS RIDDLE 02:26:29 I'm not even watching, should I be? 02:26:51 You might want to gain some intelligence so a cursed ring of Int-9999 doesn’t kill you. 02:27:10 To be fair, a cursed ring of int -5 would kill m 02:27:11 *me 02:27:12 Patashu: Sure. 02:27:27 I shouldn’t be watching, i should be doing homowork. 02:27:35 I feel clever. 02:27:36 ion: That's why I told him to identify rings before wearing them! ;) 02:27:43 NihilistDandy: OK, now rest off with 5. 02:27:49 Uhh. 02:27:50 Do you have chunks? 02:27:54 Oh, you don't. 02:27:59 Best not to waste permafood. 02:28:01 You have a corpse right there. 02:28:04 Anyway, 5 some more. 02:28:06 Rest until you’re not slow anymore. 02:28:08 You're slow and exhausted; not very good for combat. 02:28:27 Being exhausted doesn’t matter much, you just won’t be able to berserk AFAIU. 02:28:27 Should I take Sigmund's shit? 02:28:45 The scythe isn't the right kind of weapon for you. 02:28:52 The robe is not interesting if you're going heav armour. 02:28:53 *heavy 02:29:10 Oh, what's your armour situation again? 02:29:18 +4 chain 02:29:21 Right. 02:29:28 It'll be a while before you'll want to switch to plate, I think. 02:29:32 Oh, you have high Str. 02:29:40 Maybe stick the armour skill on for a bit so you can wear the plate. 02:29:44 OTOH, +4 chain might be better than +0 plate. 02:29:50 NihilistDandy: Press b to train axes more, though. 02:30:02 Also, you can't eat corpses unless you're hungry (or one of the races who don't care about that). 02:30:10 They seem to have the same AC bonus, actually. 02:30:13 Yiuf is dangerous sometimes. But usually not. 02:30:31 With berserk you should be able to handle him. 02:30:38 Stop being silly. 02:30:47 So berserk, then? 02:30:50 No. 02:30:54 Walking hurts you when you'e zerk. 02:30:56 *you're 02:30:59 No, I mean - 02:31:02 well, never mind. 02:31:08 I meant zerk afterwards. 02:31:10 Take the cloak. 02:31:16 And then rest off the poisoning. 02:31:18 (And wear the cloak.) 02:31:36 (You can also W to wear rather htan going through i.) 02:31:46 *nod* 02:31:51 *than 02:31:58 harcustangent 02:32:16 NihilistDandy: Oh, yeah - 02:32:23 If you're not hungry and have chunks, press p on corpses instead. 02:32:26 It sacrifices them and makes Trog happy. 02:32:34 Shall do 02:33:03 Now try the rings that aren’t cursed. 02:33:22 Green is uncursed, right? 02:33:29 It says it’s uncursed. 02:33:31 Oh, derp 02:33:35 Nice! 02:33:40 Now you don't have to bother training intelligence any more. 02:33:41 Oh, very nice. 02:33:50 You could wear that plate armour now, see if it has a nice bonus. 02:33:52 Well, unless you want another ring in its place. :-P 02:34:00 Oh. 02:34:00 It’s cursed. It’s probably bad. 02:34:02 Cursed :/ 02:34:04 Yeah. 02:34:07 Read-test g and m. 02:34:09 Maybe one of them is uncurse. 02:34:20 Well, that's not bad. Even if the axe sucks. 02:34:26 They’ll only uncurse things you’re wearing IIRC. 02:34:31 Damn it 02:34:43 Ha. 02:34:45 Oh well. 02:34:47 It’s okay, now you’ll be able to read-id a scroll of remove curse. 02:34:49 Uncurse armour scrolls arent uncommon. 02:34:51 *aren't 02:35:04 So, next level down? 02:35:05 BTW, you'll want to take off the armour skill after a while. 02:35:06 Sure. 02:35:09 You're definitely strong enough. 02:35:28 I take o said it has explored everything on the previous level? 02:35:37 Correct 02:35:40 Not sure, but Dungeon:[123] are so boring anyway. 02:35:56 Except when you find useful loot. 02:37:01 You should probably id some stuff. 02:37:10 Oh. 02:37:13 You don't have the id scrolls yet. 02:37:18 There's 2 scrolls of id there; autopickup will get htem for you 02:37:18 *them 02:37:44 The potions are the priority, but iding the armour would be nice too. 02:37:51 Try p, since yo have 2. 02:37:52 *you 02:37:52 Well, i’d just drop it. 02:37:55 the armour 02:38:03 A waste of an id scroll. 02:38:09 Howso? 02:38:18 Oh. 02:38:20 Isn’t it unlikely to be good? 02:38:23 ion: I meant since the first one was multi-use. 02:38:55 NihilistDandy: Ijyb is another unique. 02:38:57 He's a weakling, though. 02:39:01 Except when he has spells. 02:39:14 He chop your head off 02:39:28 he's a goblin but with more hp 02:39:30 and randomly has a wand 02:40:05 That sure is an enchanted crappy axe :D 02:40:14 Aww, yeah~ 02:40:25 A +7 hand axe would “sure” be an enchanted crappy axe. :-P 02:40:56 Just keep it all through the game. 02:41:16 (Not a serious suggestion.) 02:41:34 Do everything elliott suggests. 02:41:38 (That was a serious suggestion.) 02:42:00 I only started playing like 11 days ago. :( 02:42:14 Okay, sorry, was moving to another room 02:42:23 No problem. 02:42:32 You can't eat kobold. 02:42:36 Green = can't eat it. 02:42:39 So sacrifice all those. 02:42:47 I'll keep it in mind 02:42:50 (I end up chopping kobold anyway because I uncritically c most corpses.) 02:42:51 Get this new shitty axe? 02:42:59 No. 02:43:02 That would be even shittier. 02:43:03 (Most likely.) 02:43:40 Don't sacrifice when you're hungry, either :P 02:43:44 Unless you have food stored up. 02:43:50 It was green 02:44:01 Oh, sorry. 02:44:06 Crawl's hunger mechanism is annoying. 02:44:15 Yup 02:44:24 (That's why I play ghouls, so I get HP for it. :p) 02:44:49 Nooo, offer it to Trog. 02:44:59 Oh, shit. My bad 02:45:16 Not a big deal. 02:45:21 (But you want that piety meter full.) 02:45:26 (Can you even do Hand of Trog right now?) 02:45:29 (Do a* to see.) 02:45:35 Oh, you can. 02:45:38 Apparently 02:45:38 Okay, then. 02:45:43 (Are you training invocations?) 02:45:49 Not yet 02:45:58 Might be worth doing that (and perhaps taking off armour.) 02:46:00 Sidenote, have to disconnect quickly. Getting off the wifi and onto wired 02:46:06 Ctrl+S then. 02:46:35 Are invocations under spell casting, then? 02:46:51 Oh. No. 02:46:57 ion: Can you not train invocations with Trog? 02:47:02 Hit * to show all skills. 02:47:03 It's been a while since I played a berserker. 02:47:08 And train armour. 02:47:11 Hmm, why was it hidden? 02:47:30 Probably because he hasn’t used it almost at all so far. 02:47:37 But he's on manual. 02:47:47 Maybe it's not worth training it. 02:47:49 That doesn’t affect which skills are shown by default. 02:48:43 Did he try m again yet? 02:48:46 I didn't watch for a second. 02:48:55 -!- Nihilist_ has joined. 02:49:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:49:24 -!- AndroUser has joined. 02:49:59 Computer dropped me into initramfs's ash after reboot after a nasty kernel panic 02:50:09 -!- AndroUser has changed nick to SgeoN1. 02:50:21 I thought you were Nihilist_ for a second. 02:50:27 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:50:27 -!- Nihilist_ has changed nick to NihilistDandy. 02:50:32 There we go 02:50:45 So, sacrifice or chop? 02:50:47 What does this mean? 02:51:25 SgeoN1: It means your system is fucked. 02:51:31 NihilistDandy: Sacrifice, I suppose. 02:51:36 Don't bother chopping unless you're hungry. 02:51:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:51:44 Eep. 02:51:46 Ogres are kinda nasty. 02:51:49 They hit hard. 02:51:56 You can probably berserk it. 02:52:03 No! 02:52:07 Never berserk when you're squares away! 02:52:13 It runs out fast, and even faster if you move. 02:52:19 I was showing my abilities for your benefit 02:52:25 Oh. 02:52:28 Sorry, then :) 02:52:32 lol 02:52:34 OK, berk. 02:52:46 Oh, that was easy. 02:52:48 Minotaurs are strong as heck. 02:52:50 Nice 02:52:58 Go for str. 02:53:01 You have enough int now. 02:53:36 Down again? 02:53:44 Elliott, any chance that hd might not be seated proprrly? 02:53:49 Being rhe issue? 02:53:53 NihilistDandy: You're having really bad axe issues. 02:53:58 SgeoN1: I don't see why, if it can load the initramfs and all. 02:54:00 Or would it not even get to here? 02:54:01 NihilistDandy: Yeah. 02:54:14 Aargh 02:54:32 il go use my windows comp 02:54:40 Gloves are nice. 02:55:07 Nice 02:55:07 Wow! 02:55:10 You finish putting on the +0 pair of gloves of Keuschite {rPois Str+3 Int+2 02:55:11 Stlth++}. 02:55:16 That's hella good. 02:55:23 If only they were +4 or something :) 02:56:03 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:56:23 Pick up the heal wounds with ,. 02:56:40 You don't need to worry about non-ranged monsters when they're a few squares away. 02:56:53 Perhaps read-id that scroll, too. 02:57:08 (Also, you probably should have rested before going on, but you didn't lose much HP, so it's not a big deal.) 02:57:48 NihilistDandy: Orc wizards can be nasty. 02:57:59 (Orc priests moreso, since they can smite you, which really hurts.) 02:58:03 That % is a corpse. 02:58:20 c 02:59:17 Crimson imps are annoying but not especially dangerous. 02:59:19 They blink a lot. 02:59:44 So try to smash him before he gets away? 02:59:50 No. 02:59:54 Just spam tab and make sure you don't lose much HP. 03:00:04 (BTW, tab will also move you closer to monsters.) 03:00:13 So you can just tap it wildly until it dies. 03:00:19 There you go. 03:00:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:00:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:00:29 That is a good button to know 03:00:44 04:00 ??o 03:00:44 04:00 o[1/2]: This is the second-best button in Crawl. See {tab} for the best one. 03:00:44 04:00 ??tab 03:00:46 04:00 tab[1/2]: This is the second-best button in Crawl. See {o} for the best one. 03:01:06 Oh dear. 03:01:09 NihilistDandy: That's the ghost of another player. 03:01:09 I don't get it 03:01:15 One second. 03:01:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:01:25 elliptiott: That would be why Henzell knew nothing about it :/ 03:01:36 04:01 !log surr seam 03:01:36 04:01 7. Surr, XL7 SEAM, T:5113: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Surr/morgue-Surr-20120504-021257.txt 03:01:47 It's... probably fairly dangerous; I don't know much about elves. 03:01:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:01:51 Ask Patashu or ion. :p 03:02:01 Patashu: ion: Thoughts on Surr's ghost? 03:02:08 is it a spellcaster 03:02:16 Arcane Marskman 03:02:21 marskman :D 03:02:32 Surr's ghost (experienced Sludge Elf Arcane Marksman) comes into view. 03:02:40 oh 03:02:41 harmless 03:02:48 (probably) 03:02:49 TAB initiated 03:02:50 (maybe) 03:02:52 NihilistDandy: (Did you not rest before exploring more?) 03:02:53 ... 03:02:57 Don't tabspam. 03:03:02 Just... tab pitter-patter. 03:03:06 Fair enough 03:03:11 did he die 03:03:16 http://magiclampoon.com/blog/2012/05/03/avacyn-returns-brings-dice/ true story 03:03:16 NihilistDandy: Careful. 03:03:28 Not sure if I can damage him 03:03:28 If you lose any more health it's time to come up with a better plan. 03:03:31 You can. 03:03:39 Euhh. 03:03:42 New plan 03:03:47 Patashu: He's poisoned now. 03:03:57 NihilistDandy: You can quaff curing to stop being poisoned, but you haven't actually lost any more health yet. 03:04:12 I didn't say do it, but okay. :p 03:04:17 As I was typing: It might be worth quaffing heal wounds, though, but maybe you should wait until you lose some more HP. 03:04:20 But oh well. 03:04:25 Berserk 03:04:33 Yeah, try berking. 03:04:44 It doesn't seem to be much of a threat but it has too much HP for its own good. 03:04:45 No need to. 03:04:49 Done 03:04:59 All that axes skill is going to waste. :p 03:05:03 Nuh uh. 03:05:03 Rest up. 03:05:05 No, it isn’t. 03:05:18 OK, now go kill and eat something. 03:05:34 Don’t step on shafts. 03:06:02 Phantoms are like crimson imps, but more annoying 03:06:06 They should be removed. 03:06:32 Yay. 03:06:39 ion: Did you see those gloves? 03:06:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:06:46 Just saw them. Nice. 03:06:58 And drop the cursed plate armour. :-) 03:07:31 NihilistDandy: Worms can hit hard ...but you have a lot of HP, so it doesn't matter. 03:07:35 Uhh, maybe eat a meat ration. 03:07:38 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:07:44 Though you don't technically have to worry until you get to be starving. 03:07:58 But you can’t berserk if you’re too hungry. 03:08:11 Ring mail and a trident… whoo 03:08:14 L/ 03:08:19 *:/ 03:08:37 You're rolling in the loot. 03:09:04 FWIW, you're doing pretty impressively for your 4th game. 03:09:12 (Which will make your inevitably stupid death all the more crushing!) 03:09:18 Just as planned 03:09:29 Aha 03:09:38 Orcish hand axe +1 must be better, yes? 03:09:53 -!- qfr has quit (Changing host). 03:09:53 -!- qfr has joined. 03:10:03 The (+1) means there’s one more item in that place (hit !a to see it). 03:10:21 The orcish hand axe is probably not any better, because it is probably +0 and you are not an orc. 03:10:30 (Even if it was +1, your current axe is +1 too.) 03:10:31 Oh, nevermind 03:11:24 Perhaps id that ring. 03:11:24 The race prefix doesn’t mean much if your race doesn’t match it. Dwarven items are more durable against acid, though. 03:11:36 Ecumenical Temple? 03:11:38 The Temple has a bunch of altars so you can get a god. 03:11:54 You're with Trog, so (a) you don't need a god and (b) even if you wanted a god more than Trog, you're SOL, because Trog's wrath is nasty. 03:11:54 You might want to make your first stash in the temple. Monsters don’t spawn there (but they can follow you there). 03:12:08 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:12:40 Make sure to berserk bushes. 03:12:42 They're deadly. 03:12:50 ^W0 at the < to make a waypoint at that place. 03:12:56 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:13:04 ^G0 to return to it later. 03:13:07 Er. 03:13:08 Why? 03:13:09 You can just GT 03:13:24 ^G0 will keep working when you move the stash elsewhere. 03:13:35 He hasn't made a stash yet :P 03:13:41 How do I make a stash? 03:13:49 Just drop stuff? 03:13:53 yeah 03:14:17 At the moment you don’t need to since you’re strong and you’re not near the item number limit. 03:14:20 I'm not sure you have much worthless stuff to drop. 03:14:30 Doesn't look like it 03:14:44 (D< would also work to get out.) 03:14:57 Erm. 03:14:58 But later you’ll have more stuff you can carry at once, or scrolls of enchant blah you’ll want to stash so they won’t get burned etc. 03:14:58 G< 03:15:21 Kill the plants to get the stuff under them. 03:15:33 The ones with stuff under them. 03:15:55 (You can tell there's stuff under them because of the inversion.) 03:16:03 Headbutting bushes. 03:16:04 Hardcore. 03:16:05 So I gathered 03:16:10 Neato 03:16:12 NihilistDandy: Wands you can id by zapping at weak things. 03:16:18 (You don't need spellcasting skill for it.) 03:16:20 V to evoke. 03:16:24 (That means zap.) 03:16:32 I mean, before you enter inventory. 03:16:44 Huh? 03:16:48 Capital V. 03:16:53 Zap at the wall adjacent the K in a way that hits the K. 03:16:54 derp 03:16:55 . to confirm 03:16:56 My bad 03:16:59 That will identify wands of digging. 03:17:52 You can , that meat ration. 03:17:53 Yeah. 03:17:56 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 03:18:03 Careful now. 03:18:09 Once you start seeing a lot of red slow down with the tab spam. 03:18:15 That ) probably has an orc corpse for you. 03:18:20 Oh. 03:18:27 Explore a bit more, maybe you'll find something to eat. 03:18:34 CAREFUL. 03:18:39 Centaurs are nasty buggers at a distance. 03:18:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:18:47 Duck n-wards so that it has to run up to you. 03:18:53 And a roomful of shit is terrible, anyway 03:18:54 And be careful of gnolls. 03:19:07 Just . a bit to wait. 03:19:09 Also, you can force multiple enemies to fight you one by one by getting them to a narrow corridor. 03:19:13 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:19:22 Careful!!! 03:19:25 Gnolls are quite nasty. 03:19:29 Thoughts? 03:19:35 Go down one. 03:19:38 Retreat to a narrow corridor. 03:19:41 Yeah. 03:19:45 There's nothing faster than you, so press X. 03:19:50 (Capital.) 03:20:02 No, X again 03:20:03 Shift-down 03:20:07 X 03:20:09 Shift-j 03:20:13 wtf? 03:20:14 One that’s in an explored area and one that you can escape from if needed. 03:20:15 X 03:20:16 Capital X 03:20:17 Then 03:20:18 When you're *on* the map 03:20:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:20:28 It's to see where a narrow corridor is. 03:20:32 Shift-down 03:20:37 X_X 03:20:38 What are you doing? 03:20:50 And again, to scroll the map. 03:21:00 Right, so you can retrat to that corridor. 03:21:04 *retreat 03:21:12 (Centaurs are faster than you, though.) 03:21:15 Make sure to cut all the corners, or you'll waste turns and get hit. 03:21:19 ion: Yeah, but the centaur isn't in vision right now. 03:21:25 And he's being crowded by other stuff, anyway. 03:21:31 Oh, it is. 03:21:37 Well, sucks to be him. 03:21:45 Retreat again. 03:21:48 They can get to you diagonally.. 03:21:49 Go SW twice and then west. 03:21:50 That's an OK corridor. 03:21:54 Eh? 03:21:57 That horizontal corridor is fine. 03:21:59 There 03:22:08 Waste of time, but OK. 03:22:14 This one you can retreat away from. 03:22:17 to a known area 03:22:18 NO 03:22:21 Don't eat when fighting! 03:22:27 Starving lasts a while anyway. 03:22:29 Eating takes like 4 turns. 03:22:39 Berserk the gnoll, perhaps. 03:22:40 Stop. 03:22:43 OK, maybe don't. 03:22:46 You can’t while starving. 03:22:47 They just hit fairly hard. 03:22:49 Oh, right. 03:22:57 Meat or bread? 03:22:57 Perhaps you can eat their corpses? 03:23:01 There's a corpse, probably. 03:23:11 You'll probably need a ration as well, but you can eat all the corpses first 03:23:19 You don't want the spear. 03:23:29 OK, eat a meat ration. 03:23:31 It's more filling than bread IIRC. 03:23:37 Try the ring and the amulet. 03:23:41 Stop. 03:23:43 I thought they are the same. But i’m not sure. 03:23:44 You're low on health. 03:23:50 Rest up. 03:23:56 ion: The ring, really? 03:23:59 His existing rings are pretty good. 03:24:09 NihilistDandy: BTW, eX also works for iXe, and similarly PX for iXp. 03:24:19 “Meat weighs 8, is 5000 nutrition. Bread weighs 8, is 4400 nutrition.” 03:24:37 I guess the amulet does nothing 03:24:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:24:53 Not true. 03:24:58 It does something, it just didn’t get identified immediately. 03:25:00 It does something; you just don't know what yet. 03:25:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:25:03 You'll need to id it to find out. 03:25:12 It might be terrible. :) 03:25:13 Wearing it isn't enough? 03:25:30 This'll be fun 03:25:46 Not really. 03:25:48 Keep it on, it might still get identified if it affects something noticeably. 03:25:50 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:25:55 Gnolls aren't really dangerous; a pack of gnolls is. 03:26:28 That fuckin' imp 03:27:01 Food boutique... 03:27:15 It's probably overpriced rubbish, but check it out anyway. 03:27:16 Just hit o, it’ll go there. 03:27:18 (Autoexplore will for you.) 03:27:48 I wouldn’t buy anything, but it’s worth keeping in mind if you’re starving at some point without food and with extra cash. 03:27:57 Chokos are worthless. 03:28:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(Obama–Biden_campaign_slogan) lol, the article got even tinier 03:28:47 hah 03:29:07 Henzell suggests that necrophages are not a huge deal? Or are they an enormous deal and Henzell is a master of understatement? 03:29:24 They're not a huge deal. 03:29:36 Note that they're yellow; you shouldn't trust the colours, but you can trust them if Henzell backs them up. 03:29:44 If anything, they tend to underrate. 03:29:48 Case in point: orc warriors can be quite scary. 03:29:54 Though probably not with the kind of strength you have. 03:30:04 Just wait in the corridor. 03:30:09 With 5. 03:30:14 Or don't. 03:30:16 Oh well. 03:30:35 Maybe berk the warrior if it gives you any trouble. 03:30:52 Just autoexplore if there's nothing in view. 03:31:00 noooo 03:31:09 Don’t fight them all at once 03:31:20 Better to heal, or run and pray? 03:31:36 Oh, what happened? 03:31:39 I look away for one minute. 03:31:43 OK, well, you're getting hit by the warrior's axes. 03:31:48 That's why you keep one in to a corridor. 03:31:49 Back up one. 03:31:58 Hit the orc. 03:32:09 Ehhh 03:32:10 Stop. 03:32:13 Quaff a heal wounds. 03:32:24 OK, zerk him. 03:32:33 You could quaff again but ehh. 03:32:47 Just heal up now and you're fine. 03:33:17 Eat what you need and offer the rest before resting, so they won’t spoil. 03:33:39 You can offer food? 03:34:19 corpses 03:34:21 to Trog 03:34:29 Fair enough. 03:35:08 Set character_set = unicode in your config for Unicode goodness. 03:35:13 Don't. 03:35:16 Do 03:35:21 It's already Unicodey by default. 03:35:24 unicode just makes the walls hideous. 03:35:29 (And the floors.) 03:35:37 They’re hideous now. :-P 03:35:59 f7u12 03:36:02 NihilistDandy: Relax. 03:36:05 It's behind glass. 03:36:09 It's Zin's angel. 03:36:18 Oh. 03:36:23 So leave, then? 03:36:26 Nope. 03:36:29 Just autoexplore 03:36:30 You can walk right up to it if you want. 03:36:33 It's Zin's sales agent. 03:36:37 lol 03:37:14 What's a rambutan? 03:37:25 Or rather, how good/shitty? 03:37:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambutan 03:37:33 Just keep it. 03:37:35 Food is food. 03:37:57 Yawn. 03:38:03 You can probably kill ogres like nobody's business now. 03:38:10 And so I can 03:38:14 What's your skills like? 03:38:25 Like this 03:38:35 Fair enough. ion might be able to advise about training more. 03:38:45 ion: Thoughts? 03:38:56 Unless you're doing this "homework" nonsense 03:39:13 In the past i’d have trained fighting as well, but i’m not sure what its effect is now. 03:39:21 I hear it was seriously nerfed. 03:39:29 But you could add it, and focus armour too. 03:39:43 With unarmed combat you’ll get better aux attacks with horns. I don’t know how good they are. 03:39:43 Like that? 03:39:46 Yeah. Train it up a bit, no harm done. 03:40:02 Which, UC or fighting? 03:40:02 You probably won’t need the others. 03:40:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:40:10 I meant fighting. 03:40:15 You can do unarmed combat later. 03:40:45 fighting[1/1]: The Fighting skill gives you a bonus to accuracy and damage in melee, and improves your hit points by ((1+racial_factor/10) * Fighting * XL) / 8 (see {hp}). 03:41:24 NihilistDandy: When kobolds throw stuff, back up like you did. 03:41:30 Then they have to run to you, and they're weaklings in melee. 03:41:40 Good to know 03:41:42 fighting gives almost no boost to combat 03:41:44 you take it for the extra hp 03:41:47 Ditto for centaurs. Hide from them until you can get next to them and then melee them. 03:41:56 and it gives almost no extra hp until xl16+ 03:41:59 so, don't train it until Later (tm) 03:42:03 Done exploring. Down again? 03:42:04 alright 03:42:22 Yeah, down. 03:42:24 Patashu: Oh, it doesn't? 03:42:28 NihilistDandy: Swap your fighting for UC. 03:42:43 Sky beasts are yawn. 03:42:44 Perhaps Patashu can tell us how useful UC is for a minotaur. 03:42:49 Though they can go invisible, which i sannoying. 03:42:49 I have no idea. 03:42:54 Not a problem if you get them in a corridor. 03:43:12 NihilistDandy: Just keep fighting upwards. 03:43:17 It's invisible, but it's not going anywhere :) 03:43:33 Don't bother. 03:43:36 Eat up. 03:43:43 The sky beast will be on its way. 03:44:03 You're nauseous; 5 a bit. 03:44:08 -!- Deewiant has joined. 03:44:30 Wow, it's a sky beast party. 03:44:58 Bah. 03:45:00 Eat a ration. 03:45:17 Or you'll just end up eating, hungry, eating, hungry, etc. 03:45:30 Wow, this is like the levl of annoying shit. 03:45:32 *level 03:46:11 Is your autopickup still off? 03:46:13 (Check with Ctrl+A.) 03:46:41 There should really be a status item for autopickup being off. 03:46:44 Don't need cards. 03:46:51 That's if you're going Nemelex, which you aren't, because Trog would get really upset. 03:47:00 No, he won’t. 03:47:10 Oh, you meant for switching religions. 03:47:11 NihilistDandy: Sacrifice those corpses, btw. 03:47:13 ion: Right. 03:47:16 Or don't. 03:47:20 Well, eat the other chunk. 03:47:27 Ah, sacrifice those two- sigh. 03:47:34 Aww, shit 03:47:36 Walk up to the centaur so it can't range you. 03:47:43 Then kill it, the orcs, get the amulet, money, then run up the upstairs. 03:47:51 Shit. 03:47:54 Dude. 03:47:57 You cannot use ranged attacks in that game in only one range? 03:48:00 If a name comes up on your screen, that's a bit scary :) 03:48:04 zzo38: You can, but it won't. 03:48:10 So… run? 03:48:12 NihilistDandy: See ??duvessa and ??dowan. 03:48:13 Or berk? 03:48:15 Nah. 03:48:16 Don’t run. 03:48:17 I would go berserk. 03:48:23 elliptiott: Then they need to fix it. 03:48:24 The orc priest will smite you from distance. 03:48:24 Hmm. 03:48:28 Yeah, go bersrek. 03:48:32 Please. 03:48:39 And attack l and n 03:48:45 Be careful. 03:48:48 And one of the es is a mage, {,s}he’ll probably have some ranged spells, too. 03:48:48 Dowan will be mad as hell. 03:49:01 Lucky. 03:49:05 Well, not really. 03:49:10 But I'm scared of those two. 03:49:20 Eat some of them corpses before resint.g 03:49:22 *resting. 03:49:24 They'll be rotten now. 03:49:30 ,, to see the items as a list. 03:50:13 Nothing worth picking up. 03:50:15 OK, get the amulet and money and scroll, then eat up some more. 03:50:19 Except the glowing axe. 03:50:22 Oh. 03:50:22 have no bigger axes spawned yet? 03:50:24 Duh. 03:50:29 NihilistDandy: Actually, you could probably stay on this level, and then go up once you've explored it all. 03:50:42 NihilistDandy: Pick up the amulet and money while waiting for the nausea to end. 03:50:43 what's the "? amulet of inaccuracy? 03:50:44 And the axe. 03:50:46 Then wield the axe. 03:50:51 Patashu: We don't know. 03:50:54 oh 03:51:06 amulet of who-da-fuck-knows 03:51:18 Dude. 03:51:20 The " is the amulet. 03:51:21 Get it. 03:51:26 ^F. to get a list of everything on this level. 03:51:27 What are you even doing..., 03:51:34 Am I missing this amulet? 03:51:35 s/,$// 03:51:36 NihilistDandy: Yes. 03:51:37 It's the blue " 03:51:48 The scroll is the ?. 03:51:48 Got it 03:51:52 wear test the amulet 03:51:58 I’d just go up and take care of the unfinished level, though. 03:52:02 You don't have any curses to remove, though. 03:52:07 Patashu: He already has an mulet on. 03:52:10 *an amulet 03:52:13 wear test the new one 03:52:18 cool 03:52:21 Oh, that's not bad. 03:52:21 Does it have a scroll or potion to add a curse? 03:52:21 Nice 03:52:22 Keep that on. 03:52:28 try wielding your new axe 03:52:34 if you hit some things with it 03:52:36 Wield the axe, go <, then eat a meat ration. 03:52:37 you'll learn its plusses 03:52:46 Be sure not to remove the amulet of faith, you’ll lose a bunch of piety that way. But you’ll gain piety (and get awesome gifts sooner) wearing it. 03:53:00 gain piety faster, that is. 03:53:03 OK, continue exploring happily :) 03:53:18 In ADOM it is possible to curse items if you have a cursed watery potion or a cursed scroll of uncursing, but there isn't any good ways to guaranteed to get those things. 03:53:32 NihilistDandy: Next time you see something weak, zap-test those wands. 03:53:41 Shall do 03:53:46 There are scrolls to curse stuff, yeah. 03:53:48 zzo38: what items would you deliberately curse in adom? 03:53:50 One is lightning 03:54:01 The wands you don't know :) 03:54:16 Adders count as weak. 03:54:21 hey, more wands 03:54:22 Whoops 03:54:22 Wait, since when is your axe cursed? 03:54:23 Forgot 03:54:29 he read a scroll of curse weapon 03:54:31 elliptiott: Read a scroll 03:54:34 Oh well. 03:54:42 oh hey 03:54:44 Can you ^Faxe? I'm shocked nothing amazing has turned up. 03:54:44 a an gore 03:54:46 btw 03:54:48 ogres hit very hard 03:54:55 except when they don't 03:54:55 He knows. 03:54:58 ok 03:55:00 not his first ogre? 03:55:02 Patashu: Potion of exchange is usually better when cursed (if you are using it carefully!), if your character is dark elf then spider bread is better cursed, and sometimes you may curse something so that when you sell it and then purchase it again later, it doesn't cost as much money. 03:55:04 Third, I think. 03:55:05 it's always the first one that gets you 03:55:14 NihilistDandy: Rest up a bit, man. 03:55:33 Ugh. 03:55:34 oh hey 03:55:37 Noooo 03:55:38 Stop, stop, stop. 03:55:42 Stop! 03:55:42 Retreat 03:55:43 STOP! 03:55:43 lawl 03:55:50 how can he stop 03:55:51 he's so diesel 03:55:51 Patashu: Do you believe these things? 03:55:55 zzo38: I do 03:55:58 It's dying... 03:56:03 NihilistDandy: You didn't know that. 03:56:07 It could have been insanely powerful. 03:56:10 That's why you check the log first. 03:56:18 And these are not the only reasons to curse things. 03:56:31 Hit _, you have an (old by now) message from me. 03:56:41 :P 03:57:02 Ogre party! 03:57:05 And a book to burn. 03:57:10 Burn the book when an O is over it. 03:57:17 Bit late. 03:57:20 NihilistDandy: rest up 03:57:27 You gotta learn to look at your HP meter before hitting o. 03:57:46 BTW, Trog's Hand is a useful ability you haven't used yet; it makes your HP regenerate faster and gives you some magic resistance. 03:57:54 It's useful in slower-burning fights than you'd use berserk with. 03:58:00 Also, you should probably eat a ration. 03:58:56 Huh. 03:59:00 What is that centaur doing with a wand? 03:59:02 so this is pretty much #whateverthefuck-dungeon-game now? 03:59:07 But I suppose, there might also be reasons for cursing items when doing some kind of challenge games too 03:59:07 centaurs can have wands randomly 03:59:10 kmc: For now! 03:59:18 NihilistDandy started playing after watching me. 03:59:43 NihilistDandy: Zap-test those wands on that K. 03:59:47 And I am doing mildly well, with elliott's guidance and occasional screaming 03:59:53 Also patashu and ion 03:59:58 Hey, you should see my fifth game. 04:00:09 N.B. I'm still terrible, but I've absorbed others' wisdom. 04:00:21 That kobold is your friend now. 04:00:25 Nice 04:00:26 You should probably zap it with the other wand. 04:00:37 (It won't stay your friend for long and also it's weak as hell, so cruelty is fine..) 04:00:43 You need to aim it at the kobold this time. 04:00:45 Since it's your friendd. 04:00:46 Remember to zap the wall adjacent to the monster in a way that hits the monster to identify wands of digging. 04:01:34 _-_ 04:02:05 _-_ 04:02:07 wat 04:02:20 I worried I had been teleported to another floor 04:02:22 Luckily not 04:02:24 Oh, no. 04:02:32 Apples, limes 04:02:33 Teleport traps are harmless unless there's dangerous stuff on the level. 04:02:43 What's with Computer Science people and fruit? 04:02:49 NihilistDandy: You're two stars away from full piety, btw. 04:02:57 I'm pretty pumped about it 04:04:00 Orcish Mines. Neat 04:04:05 Bad, though, yes? 04:04:18 The orcish mines are fun - but. 04:04:25 General wisdom is to do them after the Lair. 04:04:30 They contain: 04:04:33 (a) a shitload of orcs 04:04:37 (b) a sometimes-scary final level. 04:04:43 Increasingly bad. The last level of branches tends to be much harder than the ones before it, too. 04:04:45 And not all orcs are as easy as the three you've encountered. 04:04:46 Fair enough 04:05:02 Fuckin' A 04:05:03 orcish mines can randomly be really hard. the lair can randomly be really hard as well, but when orcish mines is hard you get boulders thrown at you 04:05:05 You'd want a double-digit XL, at the very least. 04:05:08 when lair is hard you just have to run real fast 04:05:32 I don't know how dangerous Maurice is. 04:05:35 I think I've killed him, though. 04:05:57 Apparently he steals and teleports. 04:06:00 maurice isn't bad 04:06:01 just blinks 04:06:03 So maybe you should zap confusion at him. 04:06:08 (After getting closer.) 04:06:22 ...after getting closer. 04:06:25 Anyway, he might have high MR. 04:06:38 Meh. 04:06:45 Ugh. 04:07:00 Got him 04:07:01 Not bad. 04:07:19 Runed cloak is good news, though 04:07:21 Try the cloak. 04:07:24 Runed isn't necessarily good. 04:07:26 But it might be good. 04:07:33 It's the I. 04:07:38 If you used W, you wouldn't have to mentally filter things ;) 04:07:41 I was checking for curse stuff 04:07:46 Ah 04:07:49 Might want to uncurse my sword 04:08:03 Or should I save it for more important stuff? 04:08:31 Sword? 04:08:34 Why do you have a sword? 04:08:37 Axe :/ 04:08:43 Oh. Don't bother until you have something better. 04:08:50 Put the runed cloak on. 04:08:53 I'm just a berserker, what kind of intelligence do you want from me? :D 04:08:59 Can Map be made a monad if the keys is monoid? Can it be applicative if the keys is monoid? 04:09:00 Capital W. 04:09:10 Good! 04:09:18 Poison resistance is useful. 04:09:28 cloak of poison resistance? nice 04:09:30 now don't die 04:09:36 Patashu: Have you seen his gloves? 04:09:43 NihilistDandy: Eat that corpse then show Patashu your gloves. 04:09:51 oh, haha 04:09:57 already had it :) 04:09:58 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:10:03 But now he has more! 04:10:11 rpois doesn't stack, unfortunately 04:10:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:10:19 IT FEELS BETTER THOUGH 04:10:34 PHOOLUCIUMM 04:10:46 Have you got any wands to test? 04:10:50 Yeah, one 04:10:54 Go for it. 04:11:07 Neat 04:11:11 BTW, since you know a lot of scrolls now, when you go to read-test one, use \ to see which items you know (and - to invert it to see ones you don't know). 04:11:12 -!- shubshub has joined. 04:11:19 Some of them are nasty, so you can see what it might be. 04:11:25 Does the game have any mode which makes all items to be initially cursed? 04:11:32 No. 04:11:43 if you like having your entire inventory cursed, you can do an ossuary portal vault 04:11:54 Cursed and full of shit, no less. 04:12:01 NihilistDandy: It's yours. 04:12:04 That's what the green background means. 04:12:08 Pet it and show it love. 04:12:09 Oh, neat 04:12:13 It's kind of useless though. 04:12:20 Is there a show love button? Or is that humor? 04:12:22 And make sure it’s next to you when you use stairs. 04:12:31 NihilistDandy: It's humour. Quite different. 04:12:36 ion: Or just ignore it and let it evaporate. 04:12:40 Ah, ouf course 04:12:42 It won’t evaporate. 04:12:50 It won't? 04:12:52 I thought they did. 04:12:54 It won’t. 04:12:57 4 stars 04:13:02 You dropped one. 04:13:03 I think. 04:13:08 Sacrifice more corpses. Except you're hungry. 04:13:12 This is why I hate Crawl's hunger system. 04:13:14 Huh. More people live in New York City than live in Norway. 04:13:43 I hate crawl's hunger system too 04:13:46 So, down another level? 04:13:56 Oh, shit 04:13:57 You haven’t explored this one yet. 04:14:01 Not done exploring, after all 04:14:02 Wights are kinda yawn. 04:14:12 s/exploring/exploding/ 04:14:40 Patashu: Yeah, I only play things with different hunger mechanics (can eat corpses while not hungry, gets HP from eating, etc.) now. 04:14:47 For now, at least. 04:14:54 Sky beasts… (╯ಠ益ಠ)╯︵ ┻━┻ 04:15:02 NihilistDandy: You have a corridor. 04:15:04 Back into it and wait. 04:15:13 Huh. 04:15:17 Well, never mind. 04:15:17 You can make sure it goes into a corner and it won’t be able to hide from you. 04:15:20 Just autoexplore some more. 04:15:50 Et the corpse and let your abomination chase the beast. 04:16:41 nihilistdandy: You might want to set easy_eat_chunks = true, easy_eat_gourmand = true, auto_eat_chunks = true. 04:16:51 Settings are for the weak. 04:16:58 ion: (That's not a good idea if you worship a corpse-loving God, surely.) 04:17:03 It is. 04:17:07 Strictly speaking, I have no idea where to do that 04:17:09 elliptiott, they help a lot 04:17:19 it doesn't butcher for you 04:17:20 it eats chunks for you 04:17:27 NihilistDandy: You edit it in the pre-game menu. 04:17:31 Ah 04:17:33 Patashu: Fair enough. 04:17:33 My config diffed against the defaults: https://github.com/ion1/crawl-config/compare/master-base...master#files_bucket 04:18:06 NihilistDandy: 05:18 erolcha[2/2]: erolcha is your "crawl can and will try to kill you" warning 04:18:07 A unique ogre magess spawned with a random set of spells, which include friendly things like banishment to the Abyss, paralysis, and LCS. Do not underestimate her 04:18:18 I don't have much Erolcha experience, so ask ion and Patashu. 04:18:21 So… leave? 04:18:31 ion: Patashu: Erolcha halp pls? 04:18:34 Well, you could run downstairs, but she's probably worth a lot of XP. :p 04:18:39 But be careful, you could die. 04:18:55 Probably not worth trying the confusion wand 04:18:59 erolcha? 04:19:00 nice 04:19:03 well, first thing to do is 04:19:04 step backwards 04:19:07 next, hand 04:19:20 NihilistDandy: (He means Hand of Trog.) 04:19:22 sting, huh? 04:19:23 hang on 04:19:23 It's one of your god abilities. 04:19:24 Ah 04:19:31 stone arrow (3d12), sting (d8), blink, b.lightning (3d14), banishment, minor healing. 04:19:34 this is her spellset today 04:19:43 Banishment, eh? 04:19:45 yup 04:19:46 hence hand 04:19:51 I wonder if Brothers in Arms would be worth it. 04:19:53 But yeah, Trog's Hand time. 04:19:54 yes 04:19:55 Hand affects banishment? 04:19:58 ion: MR 04:19:59 yeah 04:20:01 gives MR 04:20:02 Ah 04:20:10 Brothers in Arms now, perhaps? 04:20:10 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 04:20:12 36% failure rate, but... 04:20:25 it won't be a very good BIA due to low piety, but it's worth trying 04:20:30 Make that 41%. 04:20:37 NihilistDandy: (It summons a monster to help you.) 04:20:43 Try it, anyway? 04:20:43 It costs piety, though, and you’ll want to get gifts. Perhaps berserking is enough. 04:20:59 NihilistDandy: Yes, try it. 04:21:04 You can get piety back easy; you can't undie. 04:21:08 Try it again. 04:21:15 nice 04:21:16 Excellent. 04:21:18 now walk towards her slowly 04:21:27 Zap a wand at her? 04:21:30 yeah 04:21:34 try confusion 04:21:42 Ha 04:21:42 wow 04:21:45 small abomination tanked her 04:21:51 how is that even possible lol 04:21:51 hang on 04:21:54 That's crazy 04:21:55 That's... odd. 04:21:58 At least you have a berserk ogre friend. 04:22:02 oh wow 04:22:05 a small abomination is about as tough as erolcha 04:22:07 except erolcha has spells 04:22:11 Really? 04:22:12 That's awesome :D 04:22:14 I thought they were useless. 04:22:16 NihilistDandy: Hang on to that guy. 04:22:20 Erolcha (O) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 6 | HP: 54 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Dam: 20 | Fl: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: magic(56) | Chunks: contam | XP: 804 | Sp: lots 04:22:20 Did Erolcha use any spells just now? 04:22:24 small abomination (x) | Spd: 7-15 | Int: plant | HD: 6 | HP: 14-40 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Dam: 23 | Fl: undead, evil | Res: magic(40), poison, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 141. 04:22:27 Just Sting 04:22:28 she casted sting once and that was it 04:22:32 her HD is low so she doesn't cast very often 04:22:33 Patashu: Twice 04:22:34 but when she casts she means business 04:22:37 But still 04:22:38 Nothing 04:22:44 Well, that was fun. 04:22:53 Your abomination took the hit, though. 04:22:54 you want to always act as though you have worst case erolcha, anyway 04:23:15 You might want to rest a bit so your x will heal. 04:23:20 NihilistDandy: If you run into anything tougher than the average monster, and you're in a corridor, swap places with your x. 04:23:26 So it can -- haven't seen Psyche before. 04:23:29 -- do some of your fighting for you. 04:23:33 ion: Do they heal? 04:23:39 yes 04:23:41 Psyche (@) | Spd: 13 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 5 | HP: 39 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 7 | Fl: spellcaster | Res: magic(26) | Chunks: contam | XP: 371 | Sp: throw frost (3d6), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d6), magic dart (3d4), invisibility. 04:23:45 05:23 psyche[1/2]: A purple unique magess that is generally unremarkable in both dungeon spawn location and ability, but can still be quite dangerous when she hastes herself and unloads a wand or chaos dagger on you. Or in the 25% of the time that her dagger is distortion. 04:23:49 and I think she's likely ot have a dagger of chaos 04:23:53 Meh; swap places with the x and wait to see. 04:23:53 oh, or distortion 04:24:05 You'll see if it's chaos or disto. 04:24:07 NihilistDandy: Press . 04:24:09 To skip 04:24:10 Not 5 04:24:14 Eek. 04:24:15 It's chaos. 04:24:16 Be careful. 04:24:28 "Be careful" =/= "run up and melee her", for god's sake. 04:24:28 lucky 04:24:33 haha 04:24:37 05:24 chaos brand[1/9]: Imitates other brands, or can heal, polymorph, berserk, haste, invisify, petrify, paralyse, torment, cause miscasts and probably do a lot more to enemies. Added in 0.5, only gifted by Xom, Xom's vault guards, found on Pan lords, or on the uniques Crazy Yiuf (always) or Psyche (sometimes). 04:24:42 She got boxed in by the ant 04:24:50 NihilistDandy: Will that help you if you become an ant? 04:24:55 Or get paralysed? 04:25:00 No. But that will be hilarious 04:25:15 Should I take that dagger? 04:25:19 Or… something? 04:25:26 Maybe. 04:25:35 BTW, Trog doesn't care about what corpses you give it, just that you give corpses. 04:25:35 weapons of chaos aren't particularly useful 04:25:43 since you can't use them on anything tough for fear of hasting/zerking them 04:25:44 Patashu: Will anything else pick it up? 04:25:47 probably 04:25:51 Right. 04:25:51 Well, you might pick it up so no-one else gets it on the level, and drop it before going to the next level. 04:25:53 elliptiott: I know, but I figured he liked mages better 04:25:54 NihilistDandy: Pick it up just in case. 04:26:01 You can stash it somewhere if your inventory gets full. 04:26:13 Robe? 04:26:20 Nope, it’s a light armour. 04:26:25 NihilistDandy: Chaos fun: 05:26 chaos brand[4/9]: Gastronok fails to defend himself. You open Gastronok like a pillowcase!!! Gastronok suddenly stops moving! Gastronok is heavily wounded. Gastronok fails to defend himself. You open Gastronok like a pillowcase!!! You kill Gastronok! Gastronok instantly turns into a zombie! Your dagger of chaos parrots the noises around you. 04:26:40 lol 04:26:47 I love any game message with more than two exclamation marks. 04:26:56 ??pillowcase 04:27:03 This isn't ##crawl. 04:27:06 What does yellow mean, again? 04:27:13 05:27 pillowcase[1/1]: Linley Henzell doesn't know how to open these. 04:27:15 :D 04:27:17 NihilistDandy: Nothing much. 04:27:18 contaminated, but eatable 04:27:23 Oh, really? 04:27:25 Thought so 04:27:26 I never knew that! 04:27:28 yes 04:27:29 white = clean 04:27:31 I keep getting nausea all the time :/ 04:27:33 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:27:35 yellow = contaminated (MAY make you nauseous) 04:27:36 Don't eat that, then :) 04:27:45 green = poisonous (can't eat without rpois) 04:27:45 But you're hungry, so. 04:27:53 purple = mutagenic (will give you a random mutation instead of nutrition) 04:27:54 NihilistDandy: Oh, right, you can eat greens now. 04:28:01 red = bad (I don't want to know what happens if you try to eat this) 04:28:03 What's more, you can go down! 04:28:04 green turns white when you have rpois 04:28:07 Done with this level 04:28:15 -!- atehwa has joined. 04:29:17 When in the situation @.X where X is an enemy, don’t move toward her. Let her move toward you. You’ll get the first hit. 04:29:25 ion: Do you have that on a macro? 04:29:31 ion: Good point. 04:29:33 NihilistDandy: That's not better than what you're wearing. 04:29:43 Your armour is really good. 04:29:50 elliott: I’m starting to feel like i should. :-P 04:30:02 Red 5 will forever be burned in my memory as the most annoying thing besides a gray I 04:30:06 -!- elliptiott has changed nick to elliott. 04:30:14 NihilistDandy: Blue p is a bit more annoying. 04:30:19 Like I said, don't bother to think with crimson imps. 04:30:25 Just keep whacking tab until it stops existing. 04:30:30 Unless something terrible happens. 04:30:30 I suppose that's true. Phantoms suck 04:30:47 Did I mention tab can also handle the moving-efficiently-towards-an-enemy for you? 04:30:48 Back up. 04:30:52 why is unarmed combat on, btw 04:30:58 Patashu: Horns. 04:31:01 We asked you whether it was worthwhile. 04:31:08 oh 04:31:09 it really isn't 04:31:13 NihilistDandy: Turn off UC. :p 04:31:16 You headbutt the centaur! 04:31:17 You kill the centaur! 04:31:18 I'd rather pump axes 04:31:23 Seemed to work with the centaur rather nicely. :-P 04:31:25 ion: it does that much damage regardless of UC skill 04:31:43 NihilistDandy: Yeah, maybe de-focus armour. 04:31:48 Your AC/EV is good. 04:31:53 Leave it on, but defocus it. 04:31:59 (Is there a better term for "focus"?) 04:32:23 untransmogrify 04:32:39 Nice 04:32:48 Do you have anything to identify? 04:32:54 Oh, the amulet you're not wearing. 04:33:00 And the ring, I... suppose. 04:33:05 use your ID on potions if you have any 04:33:05 Oh, and potions. 04:33:08 id the potions. 04:33:21 Quaff gain intelligence. 04:33:37 man 04:33:39 you're one smart zerker 04:33:43 Yeah. :D 04:33:47 He could spellcast, were it not for the heavy armour. 04:33:50 obviously you should ditch trog and learn some spells 04:33:50 ME SOOOO SMARRRRT 04:34:00 trog won't mind, honest. he won't send berserk stone giants after you, honest 04:34:09 Just spellcast WITH TROG. 04:34:12 hahahaha 04:34:14 trog won't mind! 04:34:15 yes 04:34:15 Actually, I guess 10 Int is average human intelligence 04:34:22 MiBes are badass enough to spellcast even if their gods hate it. 04:34:26 crawl doesn't follow the D&D stat scales 04:34:32 You wouldn't let any puny god stop you using magic, right? 04:34:37 CRUSH GOD 04:34:57 I like how Trog doesn't mind wands. 04:35:02 NihilistDandy: Goliath beetles hit hard. 04:35:03 But they're slow. 04:35:06 They're really tedious to fight. 04:35:07 Confusion wand 04:35:13 Just whack it and stop if it hurts you. 04:35:17 Or, yeah. 04:35:22 for goliath bettles 04:35:24 Well, that didn't help. 04:35:30 haha 04:35:34 What's that potion? 04:35:36 well, when you're not diesel 04:35:44 goliath beetles hit really hard but only act every other turn 04:35:46 SO DIESEL 04:35:50 so you can hit them once, step back, . until they're next to you and repeat 04:35:52 NihilistDandy the Cleaver 04:35:55 `quote hack and back 04:35:56 diesel lite 04:35:58 839) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 04:35:58 ealy game diesel 04:36:36 Wyverns are just, like, wyverns, you know? 04:36:52 Nice cornering. 04:37:03 lol 04:37:29 Stay where you are. 04:37:31 Just pick em off one by one. 04:37:36 You didn't do the waiting thing. 04:37:38 ion: Macro time. 04:37:52 does the orc warrior have a polearm? 04:38:01 (Press Ctrl+P to see previous messages) 04:38:09 battleaxe, cool 04:38:13 you'll want that once you pry it from his cold dead hands 04:38:13 :) 04:38:17 Yeah, just whack it. 04:38:21 Wait, don't advance. 04:38:22 Sigh. 04:38:27 When in the situation @.X where X is an enemy, don’t move toward her. Let her move toward you. You’ll get the first hit. 04:38:28 he's fine 04:38:29 too diesel 04:38:29 It's OK, I do it too. 04:38:36 Yeah, get that axe. 04:38:41 take the battleaxe; wield the battleaxe 04:38:46 if there's any plate armour wear that too 04:38:48 Patashu: Uncurse the current axe first. 04:38:48 uncurse your hand axe 04:38:51 Currently finding the battleaxe 04:38:54 Patashu: Plate armour? Naw. 04:38:59 +0 plate is worse than his +4 splint. 04:39:11 Not splint 04:39:18 Eh? 04:39:20 Doesn't he have splint? 04:39:37 Sacrifice that corpse. 04:39:39 Yay. 04:39:40 I thought it was a +4 scale mail. 04:39:43 You got a star of piety. 04:39:49 Oh, chain. 04:39:53 OK, I guess the plate might be better. 04:39:54 oh 04:39:57 at ****** he'll start giving you good axes 04:40:00 monqy: Stop for a second. 04:40:01 Err 04:40:02 NihilistDandy: 04:40:06 Let me check your current AC/EV to compare before/after. 04:40:12 18/10 04:40:13 AC 18, EV 10. 04:40:16 OK, wear the B. 04:40:28 heh 04:40:30 It's worse. 04:40:32 it's minus one EV but 04:40:34 you'll have more GDR 04:40:36 so imo it's better 04:40:36 Fair enough. 04:40:38 GDR? 04:40:43 Maybe focus armour training some more? 04:40:49 fyi 04:40:50 gdr[1/1]: Guaranteed damage reduction versus melee attacks, conferred by body armor. Formula is 14 * sqrt(base AC-2)%. This percentage applies to the maximum potential damage for an attack, not the actual damage rolled. However, GDR will prevent at most AC/2 damage. 04:40:54 Thanks 04:40:57 also 04:40:59 focus axes only 04:41:01 since you have a battleaxe now 04:41:04 and you need to get it to mindelay 04:41:07 Fair enough. 04:41:09 Remove armour entirely? 04:41:14 20 axes for mindelay battleaxe 04:41:15 yeah 04:41:17 focus on axes until 20 04:41:19 then do what you want 04:41:20 NihilistDandy: Wield that battlexae. 04:41:26 Yay. 04:41:29 Go and kill things. 04:41:31 =isa to make it the letter a. 04:41:39 Do what ion said. 04:41:41 Drop the hand axes. 04:41:52 Let's use foot axes instead, please. 04:41:55 You can switch between wielding a and b with ' 04:42:01 NihilistDandy: Do you have any scrolls of enchant armour or whatever? 04:42:04 That would be nice right now. 04:42:06 Or enchant weapon. 04:42:17 I’d spare them for even better stuff. 04:42:20 zzo38: axe body spray is far more useful against miasma 04:42:20 Shame. 04:42:30 quintopia: OK, then use that instead. 04:42:35 Drop the chain? 04:42:40 yeah 04:42:43 zzo38: crawl does not have foot axes, but it does have curse toes 04:42:52 and death cobs 04:42:59 and moths of mundanity 04:43:06 Drop the cursed ring, or identify for possible bittersweet goodness? 04:43:07 NihilistDandy: You can find all that stuff later with Ctrl+F. 04:43:12 Keep the ring, it's not hurting anything. 04:43:13 it might be useful but cursed 04:43:14 or it might be hunger 04:43:15 keep it around 04:43:42 NOT THE FEARSOME HOBGOBLIN 04:43:44 YOU'RE DOOOOOMED 04:43:48 Holy shit, nice ace 04:43:50 *axe 04:43:59 Well, hobgoblins are always weaklings. :p 04:44:04 it's okay 04:44:15 when trog starts gifting you'll get a branded battle or exec 04:44:15 +1 is the best weapon I've seen. Give me a break 04:44:21 Sweet 04:44:23 Just wait until you get an executioner’s axe of venom. :-) 04:44:36 Identify non-cursed first 04:44:43 Which one? 04:44:46 any 04:44:53 lame 04:45:01 ring of teleport isn't completely useless 04:45:01 What was it? 04:45:05 you can evoke it for teleport on demand 04:45:08 That gives you teleportitis. 04:45:15 Only when you wear it 04:45:16 it gives you teleportitis AND evoke for teleport 04:45:17 in crawl 04:45:17 Right. 04:45:17 yeah 04:45:25 But teleportitis is still annoying as a long-term thing :) 04:45:29 Yaaaak 04:45:35 NihilistDandy: Yaks hit hard but they're boring. 04:45:43 They're basically like ogres with horns. 04:45:49 Step back. 04:45:50 Yeah. 04:45:53 You can zerk them. 04:45:58 Since they hit hard. 04:46:04 Zerking gives you extra HP as well as the strength. 04:46:18 Yaks also have hugs corpses! 04:46:18 it multiples your current hp by 1.333... when you use it 04:46:19 *huge 04:46:21 so a late zerk is pointless 04:46:25 Patashu: It wasn't late. 04:46:28 right 04:46:31 just for future reference 04:46:34 zerk early or don't zerk 04:46:36 Eat eat eat. 04:46:58 Good to know 04:47:05 Stop. 04:47:11 hydra \o/ 04:47:11 | 04:47:11 >\ 04:47:13 I think axes chop hydrae heads. 04:47:15 yep 04:47:18 Which means you'll be left with a more-headed hydra. 04:47:19 anything sharp will do it 04:47:21 Which delivers more damage. 04:47:28 Zap? 04:47:28 fun, isn't it 04:47:32 I'm not sure what minotaurs should do in this situation. 04:47:34 Perhaps brothers in arms. 04:47:35 bia 04:47:35 Use the wands or/and get reinforcements. 04:47:39 Yeah. 04:47:44 Do BIA first, since you're right next to it, perhaps. 04:47:47 and hope for something good 04:47:56 that'll do 04:47:57 Nice 04:48:00 it has a club so it won't make more heads 04:48:03 hah 04:48:06 lol 04:48:08 well, it's hurt badly now 04:48:10 so that wasn't a waste 04:48:15 Try zapping. 04:48:16 you can probably zerk it to death now 04:48:19 or confuse it sure 04:48:24 hmm 04:48:25 I was thinking disintegration. 04:48:27 use lightning 04:48:29 or disint 04:48:29 Or that. 04:48:31 doesn't matter 04:48:33 Disintegration is bloodier. 04:48:39 true 04:48:47 nice 04:48:47 Yay! 04:48:56 (those are chunks of hydra you blew across the room) 04:48:56 Pre-chunked, too. 04:49:21 A roguelike with gibs is the funniest thing. 04:49:38 Tabtabtabtabatbaatb 04:50:20 Back up, silly. 04:50:39 NihilistDandy: How many turns in are you? 04:50:40 (% to see.) 04:50:56 10053 04:50:56 Cool. 04:51:00 Feels like more. 04:51:47 . 04:51:47 . 04:51:48 . 04:51:49 . 04:51:50 you know how jellies work 04:51:51 Careful. 04:51:55 No. 04:51:57 He doesn't. 04:51:59 NihilistDandy: Jellies corrode weapons, armour. 04:52:00 Blast it with a wand from distance. 04:52:02 They are annoying as shit. 04:52:06 ion: Why did you tell him to drop all his axes? 04:52:13 He could use a backup right now. 04:52:13 elliot: it would just eat all the axes 04:52:19 elliott: BIA, wands 04:52:20 see how it eats things? 04:52:21 Patashu: I didn't mean throw. 04:52:22 when it eats it heals 04:52:23 I meant melee. 04:52:23 oh 04:52:25 aah 04:52:28 just use wands on it 04:52:30 this is what wands are for imo 04:52:36 Disintegration! 04:52:37 I love guts. 04:52:45 And again. 04:53:03 Yay. 04:53:05 cool 04:53:07 for future reference 04:53:12 you should have retreated north instead of south 04:53:15 so you could have -kept- retreating indefinitely 04:53:20 (jellies are slower than you) 04:53:25 Yeah, my bad. Wasn't thinking 04:53:30 Enchant weapon! 04:53:37 You *could* save it but considering how rare axes are this game... 04:54:03 trog will gift him -plenty- of axes 04:54:03 He’ll get plenty from Trog in a while. 04:54:03 soon 04:54:09 trog won't be able to fucking stop 04:54:27 or the other way around 04:54:40 You're kinda wasting permafood... but I don't blame you, because Crawl's hunger sucks. 04:54:53 try not to eat permafood 04:54:56 unless it's a fruit, then no one cares 04:54:57 Next level? 04:55:03 I just ate a rambutan 04:55:05 Fruit 04:55:10 Yeah, next level. 04:55:12 Drop the chaos dagger first. 04:55:14 You're more than strong enough. 04:55:21 You can probably tabspam this lot. 04:55:24 ion: Eh, no need. 04:55:33 Whoa. 04:55:47 CAREFUL 04:55:48 nooooo 04:55:52 STOP 04:55:54 ahaha 04:55:55 what is it 04:55:56 I want to see 04:56:02 Wights drained him and there's an ogre. 04:56:08 and he keeps tabbing :-P 04:56:09 oh wow 04:56:10 look at all the things 04:56:19 So, thoughts? 04:56:21 I was the one who told him to tab them. But these wights are vicious. :( 04:56:22 is he standing on the staircase right now? 04:56:24 Yes. 04:56:28 fun 04:56:29 hmm 04:56:32 But will he survive an ascent? 04:56:35 probably not 04:56:37 Perhaps quaff heal wounds and then berserk. 04:56:41 (Don't do that right away.) 04:56:41 Stop 04:56:43 It was 04:56:44 Drink heal wounds, BIA, berserk? 04:56:45 an idea 04:56:47 for vetting 04:56:49 Yeah, try BIA. 04:56:51 what I would do is 04:56:52 step one sw 04:56:55 so you're in a better position 04:57:02 Then BIA. :p 04:57:14 sw again 04:57:21 BIA again, perhaps. 04:57:21 hit the wight that's next to you 04:57:24 or that 04:57:26 Or that. 04:57:28 OK, that's good. 04:57:31 ok, situation's diffused now 04:57:36 *defused? 04:57:39 Defused. 04:57:46 NihilistDandy: Lesson to be learned here: don't necessarily trust me when I say you might be able to tabspam something :) 04:57:49 Go up the upstairs to rest. 04:57:53 lol 04:58:02 Btw, you can hit ^X to get a list of items in your field of vision. 04:58:16 Good to know 04:58:29 And ^F. to get a list of items in the level. 04:58:42 NihilistDandy: That's all junk. 04:59:26 Relax. 04:59:29 Yaks aren't such a big deal. 04:59:33 And that's not a chokepoint, anyway. 04:59:33 back up once 04:59:40 yeah, you're being hit by three yaks at once 04:59:40 Craeful. 04:59:40 Dude. 04:59:43 rofl 04:59:50 Why do you not look at the HP meter when it flashes red a billion times? 04:59:56 in this game called 'crawl' monsters can attack diagonally even past walls 04:59:57 You don't close your eyes during tabspam :P 05:00:01 I'm an American cowboy 05:00:03 it's incredible. I know. 05:00:11 they just reach over and poke you 05:00:28 Royal Canadian Yaksman 05:00:31 I know they can. I didn't realize getting hurt made you unable to blind fight right away 05:00:37 It doesn't. 05:00:41 *It doesn't. 05:00:42 But it can make you die. 05:00:47 it just turns off tab 05:00:49 so you don't kill yourself 05:00:54 In the game called KING, opponent pieces can move diagonally past walls, and line of sight and thrown rocks work diagonally past walls, but your piece is blocked 05:00:56 If those three yaks gored you, you could have died the next turn. 05:00:59 Ah, okay 05:01:24 Worker ant zombie is harmless, just kill it and rest up. 05:01:30 X zombie is weaker than X. 05:01:46 Those shops might be interesting. 05:01:48 That one isn't. 05:01:55 Better prices than the last one, but still shit 05:02:09 food shops are for when you eat all the permafood in the game 05:02:13 don't buy food otherwise 05:02:22 Careful. 05:02:24 You have a corridor. 05:02:25 Use it. 05:02:51 You slice the wight!! 05:02:51 Nice 05:02:53 Try that battleaxe. 05:03:01 Corridors are not to be eaten. 05:03:19 lol 05:03:22 Wha wha 05:03:28 It's cursed, that just means you can't take it off. 05:03:32 Don't bother. 05:03:34 Mrh. 05:03:35 *Meh. 05:03:39 It's probably worse than what you have, so switch back. 05:03:40 it's not even necessarily a bad axe 05:03:49 I would have kept the curse until you saw its stats. 05:03:53 I'll wield it until a fight and we'll find out 05:03:57 That work? 05:03:59 Sure. 05:04:01 sure 05:04:04 Don't get your hopes up, though. 05:04:15 It's a piece of shit, apparently 05:04:18 rofl 05:04:25 it's random whether you find out or not per hit 05:04:29 but no brand, so whatever 05:04:36 What was it? 05:04:37 Oh, is it? Also good to know 05:04:37 I missed. 05:04:42 he didn't find out 05:04:44 Ah. 05:04:51 Well, just keep using this one. 05:04:55 In which games, is it possible, if you have scroll of item destruction, to use it to destroy a cursed item which you cannot get rid of, if you drop everything else other than the item you want to destroy and the scroll? 05:04:57 It's still uncurded, so I could keep using it 05:05:03 *uncursed 05:05:23 There's no real point. 05:05:25 It's probably going to be shit. 05:05:46 wands 05:05:49 wandddssss 05:05:55 hah 05:05:57 in your face elliott 05:05:58 Whoah. 05:05:59 Nice 05:06:00 What color of wands? 05:06:06 we don't know yet 05:06:07 Octarine. 05:06:15 hmm 05:06:20 ok, nothing really good in there 05:06:39 (really good = haste, heal wounds) 05:07:19 Gnolls aren't really scary any more. 05:07:24 Oh, oksy 05:07:25 *okay 05:07:33 gnoll shamans are pretty forgettable 05:07:35 Not to say you should tabspam them. But they're not going to do all th- 05:07:38 dragons on the other end... 05:07:50 a steam dragon, you mean 05:07:53 steam dragon is like 05:07:54 the runt of dragons 05:07:59 Well, yeah. 05:08:02 But I want to instill the fear of dragons. 05:08:25 Walk into or no? 05:08:32 if you want 05:08:34 the damage is very low 05:08:34 No, that would be kind of dumb and you don't have to. 05:08:35 but it is damage 05:08:44 nice use of the chokepoint as always 05:08:46 Zap confusion at that gnoll. 05:08:52 It's blocked by deep water. 05:08:55 Patashu: :P 05:08:57 06:08 deep water[1/2]: This most corrosive of solvents will dissolve almost anything that falls in, even artefacts and hapless adventurers. It may be possible to {scramble} free, however. Also known as blue lava. 05:09:07 Oh, wait. 05:09:09 Confusion won't help. 05:09:13 I guess it can just stay there. 05:09:19 You could disintegrate it, I suppose. 05:09:22 But it'd be for entertainment only. 05:10:14 It's not a cprse. 05:10:16 It's a chunk. 05:10:17 You exploded it. 05:10:23 Get that last chunk then rest off a bit. 05:11:40 Hey, Trog gifted you. 05:11:47 Noticed 05:11:52 invisible orc wizard. 05:11:57 See that {? 05:11:59 That's where it probably is. 05:12:06 Watch your HP. 05:12:13 Don't open those two doors, I think it's a vault. 05:12:18 Check out Trog's gift though. 05:12:32 Not sure where it is, mind. 05:12:35 NihilistDandy: No, it's on the floor. 05:12:36 ctrl+f god gift 05:12:38 ^X 05:12:45 Woot 05:12:51 Equip that dude 05:12:58 war axe is worse than battleaxe since it's one handed 05:13:01 Oh, really? 05:13:04 but 1) you can use it with a shield 2) it might have a neat brand 05:13:05 yeah 05:13:17 Oh well, wield it. 05:13:20 it goes hand axe < war axe < broadaxe (one handed) < battleaxe < executioner's axe (two handed) 05:13:22 iirc 05:13:29 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:13:33 Yay, anti-magic. 05:13:34 Dude. 05:13:35 Dude. 05:13:38 NihilistDandy: Look at your goddamn HP. 05:13:39 haha 05:13:42 he's petrified 05:13:44 he can't do shit 05:13:44 Stone... 05:13:46 Why the fuck would you explore with that HP? 05:13:47 You're so dead. 05:13:51 rofl 05:13:53 ok 05:13:56 Lucky as shit. 05:13:58 so 05:14:00 how anti-magic works is 05:14:00 YOU WERE SAYING? 05:14:02 when you hit dudes with it 05:14:04 they can't cast spells anymore 05:14:07 Sweet 05:14:07 otherwise the battleaxe is better 05:14:11 Can you set autoexplore to refuse to operate if you're below 66% HP? 05:14:15 elliott: if only 05:14:32 wtf 05:14:36 ok great 05:14:41 you can't close the door since there's an arrow on it 05:14:46 Move the battleaxe to position a and the antimagic war axe to position b and you’ll be able to switch between them with ' 05:14:55 just zap wands at it 05:14:58 ion: do you mean ` 05:15:07 Uhhh 05:15:07 Stop! 05:15:11 Didn't realise your HP was like that 05:15:15 Quaff something 05:15:18 BIA might block his arrows. 05:15:19 Heal wounds or curing 05:15:27 OK, yeah, BIA. 05:15:36 meta-solution: don't do that in the first place 05:15:38 elliott: ' 05:15:38 STOP 05:15:40 Trog's hand. 05:15:48 You want that regen in a situation like this. 05:15:52 (How did that centaur kill an ogre???) 05:15:55 step next to the centaur 05:16:03 now just combat wombat it 05:16:04 Maybe berk it ;) 05:16:12 (Kidding.) 05:16:14 Phew. 05:16:16 Rest immediately. 05:16:18 swap back to battleaxe 05:16:20 sounds like the force is strong with nihilist 05:16:25 and don't be dumb around centaurs 05:16:25 Do what ion said. 05:16:30 Battleaxe to a, war axe to b. 05:16:43 No, don’t rest. You should autoexplore some more. 05:16:48 clearly 05:16:56 Autoexplore with 1 HP. 05:17:03 NihilistDandy: Wrong battleaxe, no? 05:17:05 he is still alive after all this sleeping i did 05:17:05 You have a better one. 05:17:37 Eat the centaur then check out your scrolls. 05:17:42 You have some stuff to identify, I think. 05:17:49 Ooh. 05:17:51 Splint mail. 05:18:00 It sucks. 05:18:06 Well, yeah. 05:18:06 He already has a plate armour. 05:18:12 Oh, he does! 05:18:14 OK, drop the splint. 05:18:25 Also the rotting gnoll. 05:18:32 Do you really not have scrolls of identify? 05:18:32 It’ll rot away by itself. 05:18:42 Not a one, right now 05:18:54 What's that ! 05:19:01 Yellow. 05:20:12 Henzell offers no guidance on Hippogriffs 05:20:14 NihilistDandy: It's not terribly scary. 05:20:16 NihilistDandy: Try Gretell. 05:20:20 @??hippgriff to it. 05:20:28 HP and damage being the most important. 05:21:15 You need to diagonal better. :p 05:21:43 Still no lair entrance, right? 05:21:49 (Ctrl+F lair to see.) 05:21:51 it's not guaranteed until D:13 05:22:07 I know, just checking. 05:22:10 Ha. 05:22:14 Fuckin' A 05:22:18 it's ok 05:22:19 it's alone 05:22:54 Also, use the antimagic against shamans etc. 05:23:01 Sidenote: Wow, berserkers are much better when they have high HP. 05:23:23 REALLY? 05:23:23 So, next level? 05:23:30 Was that to ion or me? 05:23:43 Er. 05:23:44 To NihilistDandy or me? 05:23:46 But yeah, >. 05:23:54 to ion 05:24:03 :( 05:24:33 Oh. 05:24:36 NihilistDandy: You know ogres? 05:24:39 Hill giants are ogres++. 05:24:39 Stop. 05:24:41 You fool. 05:24:42 What? 05:24:46 Uhh, OK. 05:24:48 When in the situation @.X where X is an enemy, don’t move toward her. Let her move toward you. You’ll get the first hit. 05:24:51 Hill giants are meant to hit very hard. 05:24:55 But this one dindn't. 05:24:56 Shut up, ion 05:24:57 *didn't. 05:24:59 I get it 05:25:02 I'm not doing it 05:25:04 But I get it 05:25:32 Probably not worth retreating; they're weaklings. 05:25:42 It's time for ion's macro again ;) 05:26:13 Maybe berk that guy. 05:26:15 Hanzell suggests little to fear 05:26:27 06:26 Harold (@) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 9 | HP: 76 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Dam: 12 | Fl: spellcaster | Res: magic(60) | Chunks: contam | XP: 1238 | Sp: b.fire (3d17), blink. 05:26:29 Quite a bit of HP. 05:26:34 But yeah. 05:26:40 Damn, you're strong. 05:26:49 Junk. 05:27:00 There's a corpse to sacrifice there. 05:27:23 Damn, so close to a wand of digging 05:28:46 wtf was that 05:29:01 Running away doesn't stop bad things existing unless you're running somewhere in particular :) 05:29:25 Patashu: You should probably watch this. 05:29:36 OK, situation defused. 05:29:41 And diffused! 05:29:48 I was just about to say “and diffused”. 05:30:05 Thank you for resting :P 05:30:21 06:30 troll (T) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (doors) | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 20, 15, 15 | Fl: regen | Res: magic(28) | Chunks: contam | XP: 305. 05:30:27 NihilistDandy: Hit kinda nasty, but otherwise harmless. 05:30:27 lol 05:30:29 You have messages. 05:30:30 Press _. 05:30:42 I don't know who that is... 05:30:45 monqy 05:30:45 You can “reply” with : 05:30:52 Yeah, :message 05:30:58 monqy: This is ND's fifth game. 05:31:04 are you giving advice 05:31:06 Yes. 05:31:15 06:31 3. NihilistDandy the Grave Robber (L2 GhNe), worshipper of Ashenzari, slain by a worker ant in D:4 on 2012-05-04, with 45 points after 300 turns and 0:05:51. 05:31:16 I thought it was only 4th :P 05:31:17 is it good advice 05:31:17 Oh, indeed, only the fourth. 05:31:21 monqy: Yes. 05:31:28 monqy: It sucks. 05:31:33 great 05:31:36 from ghne to mibe? 05:31:42 at least, I assume that's mibe 05:31:51 !lg nihilistdandy 05:31:56 Err 05:32:08 Why aren’t the ##crawl bots on #esoteric⸘ 05:32:12 monqy: 05:32:13 06:32 !lg nihilistdandy -2 05:32:13 06:32 2. NihilistDandy the Sneak (L1 VpAs), slain by a gnoll (a +1,+1 spear) in D:1 on 2012-05-04, with 84 points after 200 turns and 0:02:58. 05:32:14 06:32 !lg nihilistdandy -3 05:32:16 06:32 1. NihilistDandy the Grave Robber (L2 GhNe), slain by a goblin (a +0,+0 orcish club) in D:3 (minmay three crescents) on 2012-05-04, with 77 points after 1013 turns and 0:24:08. 05:32:18 He just picked randomly to start with. :p 05:32:19 vpas too? 05:32:30 ion: Unlike Haskell, they didn't put them there! 05:32:39 (Wait, his first game lasted 24 minutes?) 05:32:42 anyway I'm gone for a while or so 05:32:48 @time monqy 05:32:50 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 22:32:49 2012 05:32:51 I'll wisdom etc once I get back 05:32:55 monqy sure is away a lot today!!! 05:32:58 maybe back at 23? maybe later 05:33:00 NihilistDandy: monqy has 17 wins, you know. 05:33:01 I'm away a lot always 05:33:03 That's 16 + 1 wins. 05:33:11 Winning by induction 05:33:15 Yes. 05:33:15 How do you win, anyway? 05:33:21 step 1) three runes 05:33:22 step 2) orb 05:33:24 step 3) don't die 05:33:27 You get three runes from branches of the dungeon, go down to dungeon level 27, 05:33:29 step 0) get really buff 05:33:34 do the 5 Zot levels, 05:33:36 I'm halfway decent at step 3 05:33:37 get the Orb of Zot, 05:33:42 go back to dungeon level 1, 05:33:45 and exit the dungeon. 05:33:57 Branches are themed stuff. 05:34:08 So far you've just seen the plain dungeon. 05:35:35 You don't need to chokepoint or run away from orcs. 05:35:38 They're *orcs*. 05:35:52 There could have been bigger things :P 05:36:11 Pheaqitzetz. 05:36:12 that's a good point 05:36:12 Enchant weapon? 05:36:15 orcs imply more orcs 05:36:17 Sure. 05:36:19 more orcs implies orc warriors 05:36:22 Patashu: Orc by induction? 05:36:39 There are 0 orcs, and since if there's N orcs, there's N+1 orcs, there are an infinite number of orcs. 05:36:41 .... 05:36:47 NihilistDandy: It's not as powerful as it looks. 05:36:54 I did tell you to check what unid'd scrolls were left at this point. 05:36:57 (Ages ago.) 05:37:13 I don't remember that, nor do I remember how to do it 05:37:29 it's either {, [, ], }, | or \ 05:37:29 I forget 05:37:38 NihilistDandy: When you go to "r", press \ in the list 05:37:43 Then - to negate it, and you'll see unidentified items 05:38:12 I pressed \ and it did no such thing 05:38:25 Hmm. 05:38:29 Ah, there you guo. 05:38:29 *go 05:38:29 It's just \ 05:38:31 Use - to negate it. 05:38:39 Now you see all the scrolls you don't know. 05:38:45 Good stuff 05:39:15 Hmm. 05:39:21 Patashu: Is that a vault of some kind? 05:39:24 Henzell is not reassuring me 05:39:25 Glass, etc. 05:39:27 Or is NihilistDandy fucked? 05:39:32 it's behind glass 05:39:35 buuuut 05:39:38 I wouldn't fight it right now 05:39:39 NihilistDandy: Stats speak for themselves: 06:39 stone giant (C) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (starting) | HD: 16 | HP: 69-108 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | Res: magic(85), drown | Chunks: contam | XP: 2034. 05:39:40 close it and put an exclusion on it 05:39:49 Patashu: I mean, is it a display case thing? 05:39:51 also, the stats don't tell you that stone giants hurl boulders 05:39:58 NihilistDandy: Close is C. 05:40:05 step away from the wall 05:40:05 Close the other door too. 05:40:06 or ctrl-direction 05:40:08 You'll have to kill the rock worm. 05:40:16 step away from the wall 05:40:18 Lure it out of the wall. 05:40:19 tada 05:40:20 Oh. 05:40:24 now put an exclusion on the door 05:40:24 I haven't encountered those before. 05:40:29 How do I do that? 05:40:30 Patashu: You get to teach him how to use exclusions. 05:40:32 x, east, e, e 05:40:44 there 05:40:45 e’s effect will be more noticeable with X 05:40:47 now you won't autoexplore into it 05:41:26 When did ND become so unstoppable? 05:41:46 good skills 05:41:51 This is reminiscent of the dwarves days 05:41:58 *dwarven 05:42:07 Oh, of course. 05:42:11 btw, from now on at level ups raise dex 05:42:14 instead of str or int 05:42:14 That must be why you're so smart: you're a master craftsminotaur. 05:42:25 Clearly 05:42:31 Patashu: Shall do 05:42:58 Craftsminotaur: best word? 05:43:01 Patashu: Some of that int is from a ring, mind. 05:43:26 elliott: there's still not much point raising int as a troglodyte 05:43:32 I know. 05:43:34 by the time stat loss is a problem you should have plenty of cures and carry them 05:43:34 ya 05:43:34 Just mentioning. 05:43:38 His starting int was 4. 05:43:45 ion: He went to university. 05:44:16 he got a degree in troglodology 05:44:24 and trog accepted him in a trainee position 05:44:35 Ohhh, *that's* where "Trog" comes from. 05:44:44 Troglodology sucks as a palindrome. 05:44:44 NihilistDandy: You opened the door 05:44:45 So, in spite of the exclusion, it's driving me into the Giant room 05:44:45 ? 05:44:50 Press X for bigmap. 05:44:54 it's the best palindrome 05:45:08 troglodog...ort 05:45:08 Not sure what's going on. Patashu? 05:45:16 why, what's wrong? 05:45:20 06:44 So, in spite of the exclusion, it's driving me into the Giant room 05:45:34 maybe place exclusions around it too, then 05:45:35 idk 05:45:45 Or cowboy it up and kill the thing 05:45:48 ... 05:45:52 That would result in you dying. 05:45:52 Driving you there? It didn’t open the door yet, did it? 05:45:53 kill a stone giant? 05:45:54 NihilistDandy: Remove the door exclusion. 05:45:57 you should probably leave it for later 05:45:57 ion: It did. 05:46:00 oh 05:46:03 NihilistDandy: Then put an e on the door while in the X bigmap. 05:46:05 Interesting. 05:46:06 Basically 05:46:08 lle 05:46:08 no sense in dying when you can live so easily 05:46:08 e 05:46:15 Uhhh 05:46:16 That's not right 05:46:18 e it twice 05:46:22 No. 05:46:26 l 05:46:29 l 05:46:33 l 05:46:35 e 05:46:39 Better. 05:46:43 Try it out like that. 05:46:47 cool 05:46:49 now go to the next level 05:46:50 OK, G> 05:46:59 oh noes a wight 05:47:05 RUUUUUUN 05:47:07 rofl 05:47:07 btw 05:47:11 if you get interrupted 05:47:11 G enter 05:47:13 will resume 05:47:19 cool, a labyrinth 05:47:21 I love mazes, do you 05:47:27 Do you have a scroll of magic mapping? 05:47:34 You have a limited time to reach the entrance. 05:47:35 He had one. 05:47:42 Also, do you have food? :-P 05:47:44 NihilistDandy: Don't do labrynths. 05:47:50 Labyrinths are great. 05:47:50 monqy hates them and from what I've read I hate them too. 05:47:58 So what do I do? 05:48:02 Ignore it and explore on. 05:48:10 Imagine a maze that changes, that you can't remember, and that you're stuck in until you reach teh end and fight a monster. 05:48:11 *the 05:48:11 They have some potentially good loot. 05:48:12 With nothing else. 05:48:29 Neat 05:48:36 And yes, I have food 05:48:42 You don't have nearly enough. 05:48:45 Skip it. 05:48:47 But I'll just be pressing o and doing whatever happens 05:48:50 Oh! You’re a minotaur! 05:48:51 Nope. 05:48:52 You can't. 05:48:55 Minotaurs can map the labyrinth. 05:48:58 No autoexplore, as I understand it. 05:48:59 Oh, they can? 05:49:04 How? 05:49:07 Do they need magic mapping? 05:49:11 no 05:49:18 So he can just autoexplore it? 05:49:29 Dunno if autoexplore works, but it shouldn’t forget the map. 05:49:35 Hmmm. 05:49:39 I would still skip it. 05:49:43 But it's immaterial if he doesn't find it, anyway. 05:49:50 I never skip labyrinths. 05:49:59 Well, we'll see, I suppose 05:50:04 elliott: You haven’t even tried one. :-P 05:50:10 Indeed. 05:50:13 But I read a bit about them. 05:50:15 That's just as good. 05:50:17 autoexplore does not work in labyrinths 05:50:19 you have to manualexplore them 05:50:23 magic mapping doesn't work either 05:50:24 Even if you're a minotaur? Bleh. 05:50:29 labyrinth is basically 'BOY I LOVE MAZES' 05:50:33 but the good thing about labyrinths is 05:50:40 they colour the walls by what euclidean distance they are from the exit 05:50:53 and the loot 05:50:56 so you can pretty quickly deduce which way yuou need to go 05:50:59 yes, there will be loo 05:51:01 (and a minotaur) 05:51:08 How powerful is the minotaur at the end? 05:51:14 And does he have enough food even if he can remember the maze? 05:51:18 you're diesel so no problem 05:51:19 (And does the maze still change for a minotaur?) 05:51:22 (and if he is a problem you can bia) 05:51:32 well, how much food does he have? 05:51:35 It does change, but that’s not a real problem. 05:51:36 Little. 05:51:39 He keeps eating permafood. 05:51:42 NihilistDandy: Press e 05:51:43 Even without mapping 05:51:47 that's plenty 05:51:54 OK, fine, do it. 05:52:00 oo, an invisible thing 05:52:00 NihilistDandy: Do you have a scroll of magic mapping? 05:52:01 kill it 05:52:04 You can't run away from something invisible. 05:52:09 it fled 05:52:15 must have been an unseen horror 05:52:18 Is your autopickup still off? 05:52:19 Put it back on. 05:52:26 yeah, it's still off 05:52:28 hit ctrl+A 05:52:34 Press Ctrl+A and stop wasting time; the labyrnth gate expires. 05:52:37 *labyrinth 05:52:40 Do you have magic mapping? 05:52:50 No 05:52:53 For fuck's sake, no 05:52:53 kite the basilisk back 05:52:58 in case there are friends in the black part 05:53:00 Hmph 05:53:00 I don't know what that means 05:53:01 you want to kill it alone 05:53:02 When he shoots a cloud at you, step away from it. 05:53:03 Oh, okay 05:53:05 just walk east 05:53:09 ion: that's catoblepases 05:53:13 keep walking east 05:53:14 oh 05:53:15 NihilistDandy: I wrote that message before you replied. 05:53:21 (Press _ to get rid of the annoying warning. :p) 05:53:21 Oh, okay 05:53:34 luvly 05:53:34 now kill it 05:53:36 cool 05:53:49 NihilistDandy: STOP IGNORING _ MESSAGES 05:53:51 I hate people who do that. 05:53:52 :( 05:54:00 THEN STOP SENDING THEM 05:54:02 I read IRC 05:54:05 I should send a funny message too 05:54:07 Cyclopses are like stone golems but less scary. 05:54:08 HTH 05:54:18 helpful hint for cyclopes: 05:54:20 treat them like centaurs 05:54:23 HTH 05:54:37 that works 05:54:50 hit _ 05:54:50 lol 05:54:54 forgot about the cyclops 05:54:57 lol 05:55:10 NihilistDandy: that tock clicking 05:55:10 means 05:55:13 ... 05:55:14 tock clicking 05:55:15 stop moving 05:55:18 gloves 05:55:19 oh 05:55:19 it means the labrynth is running out 05:55:20 you have gloves 05:55:21 nvm 05:55:23 Don’t waste time, find the labyrinth. 05:55:27 he has the best gloves 05:55:31 NihilistDandy: don't autoexplore if you want to find it 05:55:34 use X to find the most likely places 05:55:45 mm 05:55:48 dunno :p 05:55:54 i'd suspect it's to the right but i don't really know 05:55:56 It was “long way away”, it won’t be in the immediate vicinity. 05:56:11 It's not up there. 05:56:12 there's lair 05:56:13 do that after lab 05:56:22 He's not goingg to reach the lab at this rate. 05:56:27 Perhaps SW? 05:56:28 *going 05:56:48 lab's gone 05:56:49 do lair 05:56:59 rest for god's sake 05:57:12 rest 05:57:13 oh my god 05:57:17 unseen horror again 05:57:19 back into a corridor 05:57:20 then reverse 05:57:21 And offer the corpses to Trog after resting. 05:57:26 nice 05:57:30 I started making something called WizardCard for implementing Magic: the Gathering and other similar things, this is what I have in a parser so far: http://sprunge.us/TJjZ 05:57:33 NihilistDandy: Ctrl+F corpse 05:57:53 that corpse isn't boring :( 05:58:01 LOL 05:58:01 careful 05:58:03 ahahahahaha 05:58:03 mimics are 05:58:04 stop 05:58:04 stop 05:58:05 stopst 05:58:06 fake fucking lair 05:58:07 sotpstpst 05:58:09 s 05:58:10 lol jesus 05:58:11 topstpost 05:58:13 stsotpst 05:58:15 does he 05:58:17 never look at his hp 05:58:20 god dammit 05:58:26 to be fair 05:58:30 when were mimics this strong 05:58:30 wtf 05:58:31 NihilistDandy: this is your lesson in "mimics aren't pushovers" 05:58:31 I'm still reading this 05:58:38 Patashu: they are 05:58:40 what 05:58:41 constriction 05:58:42 . 05:58:44 dex 05:58:45 I'm never playing trunk 05:58:47 careful 05:58:52 careful 05:58:53 no tab 05:58:54 wtf 05:58:55 stop 05:58:58 you have 28 hp 05:59:00 why are you chasing things 05:59:11 There, mom, relax 05:59:12 you might be diesel but you're running out of gas!!! 05:59:33 your unreasonable luck is depriving you of the helpful learning experiences that are YASDs 05:59:42 Yup :D 06:00:04 ok, lair entrance must be on the next level 06:00:08 explore out this one then go down to it 06:00:12 it might still be on this level 06:00:13 ion: macro time 06:00:14 I think 06:00:17 forget how mimics work 06:00:35 kobold room? 06:01:02 NihilistDandy: just run up to it and bash them in 06:01:03 why are you using wand zaps on kobolds 06:01:05 bored? 06:01:06 dude, you're a minotaur 06:01:11 Patashu: Yup 06:01:11 bashing kobolds to death is what you do best 06:01:24 NihilistDandy: you'll find the lair a nice change 06:01:28 have you found no boots this game? 06:01:35 Not a one 06:01:40 poor feeties 06:01:44 trolls are like ogres 06:01:52 ooh ooh 06:01:53 gift 06:01:54 gift 06:01:58 is it exec? 06:02:01 -!- zzo38 has left. 06:02:02 you could have sacrificed that corpse 06:02:05 NihilistDandy: god gifts go on the floor 06:02:06 it's right 06:02:08 next to you 06:02:10 YES 06:02:11 yes 06:02:12 exec axe 06:02:13 wield it 06:02:13 wield that motherfucker 06:02:20 reassign it to a 06:02:21 cool 06:02:21 now 06:02:23 pump axes to 26 06:02:31 Patashu: he's already training axes exclusively 06:02:33 ok 06:02:35 well, pump axes faster 06:02:38 oh it's antimagic too awesome 06:02:47 back up 06:02:49 Some other brands are generally better than antimagic. 06:02:50 corridor 06:02:52 nn 06:02:53 what 06:02:56 lol 06:02:57 KoK 06:02:58 back up rofl 06:03:02 also, yes, very funny 06:03:03 ahahaha 06:03:04 not like that 06:03:07 that's just 06:03:10 sure whatever 06:03:11 good enough 06:03:13 that's not backing up that's just backing 06:03:16 ahahaha how is he still alive 06:03:16 (you can pretend kobolds don't exist at this point) 06:03:23 elliott: we made him too diesel :( 06:03:31 NihilistDandy: is that all the corpses 06:03:40 ALL CORPSES 06:03:40 is that a shop 06:03:42 or was it the lab 06:03:44 Search for what [Enter for "boots", or ? for help]? corpse 06:03:51 I read: ‘Enter for "boobs"’ 06:03:51 that's where the lab WAS 06:03:54 Patashu: he's making so many 06:03:57 newbie mistakes but 06:04:00 he's just too powerful to die to them 06:04:06 he reminds me of a week ago except 06:04:07 TOO NOOB TO DIE 06:04:10 diesel 06:04:42 @.X 06:04:42 Not enough arguments to @. 06:05:08 And now, down again 06:05:19 What happened? 06:05:27 Wanted to save, didn't know that also made me quit 06:05:33 NihilistDandy: It's a roguelike. 06:05:35 You can't save. 06:05:37 rofl 06:05:37 Good point 06:05:39 You can suspend and resume. 06:05:42 btw, it autosaves 06:05:45 save = quit basically 06:06:46 lair time 06:06:54 explore the whole level first perhaps 06:06:57 sure 06:07:00 burn book 06:07:01 buuuurn book 06:07:03 yesssss 06:07:09 so, here's your lair notice 06:07:11 NihilistDandy: any ?id 06:07:12 ? 06:07:14 1) don't do subbranches of lair before all of lair 06:07:18 Tengu 06:07:19 NihilistDandy: btw the lair is boring + hydrae 06:07:26 oh water 06:07:31 just go to the lair water is such a pain 06:07:38 2) monsters to watch out for: blink frogs (they're faster than you, appear in packs and blink), hydras (obviously), catoblepases (slower than you, when they breathe petrifying gas immediately move to an open tile) 06:07:42 am I missing any? 06:07:44 oh, eels 06:07:46 eels shoot lightning at you 06:07:50 but they can't move out of the water 06:07:53 22:47:50 < elliott> monqy hates them and from what I've read I hate them too. 06:07:56 labyrinths are awfu 06:07:56 l 06:07:59 22:47:50 < ion> Labyrinths are great. 06:08:01 you're awful 06:08:12 uhh NihilistDandy 06:08:14 also, the tengu are listed as gray 06:08:18 so you can probably just tab them 06:08:19 07:08 tengu (H) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 5 | HP: 16-39 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10, 5, 5 | Fl: fly | Res: magic(20) | XP: 130. 06:08:22 they're weak as shit 06:08:24 22:33:34 < elliott> do the 5 Zot levels, 06:08:28 fsvo "do" 06:08:36 monqy: no u 06:08:37 lair time 06:08:39 lair has lots of food 06:08:41 since you have rpois 06:08:46 just G 06:08:47 L 06:08:59 easy, tab it 06:09:01 hungry ghosts make you more hungry 06:09:03 but 06:09:04 so does crawl so 06:09:07 (they really don't) 06:09:09 or if they do 06:09:13 it's negligibly little 06:09:16 07:09 hungry ghost[1/1]: A ghost whose primary attack is to decrease your satiation level, by a quarter of your current satiation - it will rapidly reduce you to very hungry or near starving if its attacks connect. If you don't have ranged attacks and can't hit hard and fast, beware. Also eats corpses on the ground. 06:09:19 it's not like the monsters in shiren that make you incredibly hungry 06:09:25 careful 06:09:26 oh, it's that much? 06:09:27 careful- ok 06:09:31 I've absolutely never noticed it 06:09:31 centaur warriors are 06:09:34 oh, hey a centaur warrior 06:09:36 yeah he 06:09:38 three shotted it 06:09:41 22:51:14 < elliott> And does he have enough food even if he can remember the maze? 06:09:42 he's too 06:09:43 strong 06:09:43 well if it was in melee range 06:09:44 it's trivial 06:09:47 food doesn't really matter in laby 06:09:57 laby is "free loot but you have to do this boring maze" 06:10:02 dude 06:10:02 wow 06:10:04 your centaur tactics are 06:10:04 what are you doing 06:10:05 -awful- 06:10:07 like the worst 06:10:08 oh and some labys have teletraps in their endings 06:10:20 monqy: are you watching this i 06:10:20 here's how centaurs work: 06:10:22 so you get teleported after finishing the laby 06:10:23 have no idea how he's still alive 06:10:24 if they see you they shoot you 06:10:27 if they don't see you they move towards you 06:10:30 dpeg is fervent about keeping them like that 06:10:32 if you are next to them they melee you which does almost no damage 06:10:40 Patashu: I am aware of these things 06:10:41 monqy: does he have any justification 06:10:45 or at least he was, before he excused himself from devteam (that happened, right?) 06:10:46 well, you're bad at centaurs 06:10:46 But I am diesel and give no fucks 06:10:49 great 06:10:51 FOR MY GOD TROG 06:10:52 NihilistDandy: you'll die 06:10:53 have fun dying to the first centaur warrior pack you see 06:11:01 FOR TROG 06:11:01 NihilistDandy: the tactics that you don't need to bother with now 06:11:05 will kill you in 5 turns later on 06:11:10 Yeah, yeah, I know 06:11:11 no matter how many jokes you have 06:11:12 :P 06:11:24 anyway 06:11:26 GL go go go 06:11:33 I'm explorin' :P 06:11:36 anyway, centaurs are easy if you 06:11:40 1) duck behind cover 06:11:43 dude 06:11:43 Ctrl+P 06:11:44 momentous 06:11:45 occasion 06:11:46 2) engage when they're a few tiels or less away 06:11:48 Ctrl+P 06:11:59 NihilistDandy: ctrl+p 06:12:00 What's Ctrl+p? 06:12:04 try it 06:12:04 shows previous messsages 06:12:06 *messages 06:12:12 You open the centaur like a pillowcase!!! 06:12:12 23:04:10 < elliott> diesel 06:12:12 oh, nice 06:12:13 first !!! 06:12:14 you're a real man now 06:12:17 wow elliott already says "diesel"? 06:12:21 monqy: Patashu started it 06:12:22 I taught him diesel 06:12:23 yw 06:12:24 i didnt know it was a thing 06:12:30 sorry 06:12:38 im just 06:12:43 hey, a hydra 06:12:44 hi 06:12:44 too gobsmacked by his still being alive to come up with other wrods 06:12:49 you should melee that hydra with your axe :D 06:12:52 good bia roll 06:13:01 127-headed hydra 06:13:04 excellent 06:13:28 back up into a hallway 06:13:32 23:10:41 < elliott> monqy: does he have any justification 06:13:33 it'll follow 06:13:33 no 06:13:47 woah 06:13:47 what is bia 06:13:48 rofl 06:13:50 but he sure got angry when minmay compared it to putting aliches on d:1 06:13:50 41 hp 06:13:51 brothers in arms 06:13:54 zerk 06:14:02 oh wtf 06:14:04 uuuuh 06:14:06 stop 06:14:07 stop 06:14:07 how did those arrows hit him for so much 06:14:08 not berk 06:14:09 not berk 06:14:10 stop 06:14:12 you idiot 06:14:12 don't zerk now 06:14:14 no 06:14:20 what potions do you have 06:14:31 heal wounds 06:14:42 and hit _ 06:14:45 reverse drinking game: feel like a dumbass every time you drink 06:14:47 ok i'm finally caught up 06:14:49 what's happening! 06:14:53 monqy: "fune" 06:14:53 he's dying to a centaur pack 06:14:56 gr8 06:14:58 Patashu: impossible. 06:15:01 Not necessarily dying 06:15:03 he doesn't 'care' about centaurs because he's 'diesel' 06:15:07 Correct 06:15:08 so now he's 'dying' 06:15:10 'yes' 06:15:14 he's going to just 06:15:14 suiciding 06:15:16 whack them and somehow survive 06:15:18 because 06:15:21 the universe hates our advice today 06:15:28 what 06:15:28 why 06:15:28 nooooooo 06:15:30 that was stupid 06:15:31 dude 06:15:32 centaurs 06:15:33 are worse 06:15:38 when you're not next to them 06:15:42 uhh 06:15:43 wait 06:15:44 doesn't he have blink 06:15:49 NihilistDandy: what scrolls do you have good god 06:15:49 from what 06:15:55 oh, he does 06:16:09 yeah, blink there 06:16:15 south 06:16:18 sw 06:16:19 b 06:16:20 yeah 06:16:24 wait there 06:16:26 rest 06:16:26 5 06:16:29 5 06:16:30 ha 06:16:33 cool 06:16:38 BIA 06:16:38 bia again 06:16:43 (he should have handed before resting, actually) 06:16:51 good advice 06:16:51 hand 06:16:51 walk behind the ogre 06:16:52 hand of trog 06:16:55 that too 06:16:56 walk behind ogr 06:16:57 walk behind ogre then hand 06:16:58 no 06:16:58 no dont hand 06:16:59 stop 06:17:01 wrong order 06:17:03 ded 06:17:13 this is going 06:17:14 Get one more BIA 06:17:14 spectacularly 06:17:17 oh boy 06:17:19 ahahaha 06:17:20 why 06:17:21 did you do that 06:17:24 there was no possible reason 06:17:26 wow 06:17:28 dude 06:17:29 b 06:17:30 what are you dOING 06:17:31 finally 06:17:31 now 06:17:32 b 06:17:34 go b 06:17:34 n 06:17:38 uugh 06:17:41 jesus fucking christ 06:17:43 rofl 06:17:43 b was the wRONG CHOICE 06:17:44 Get one more BIA 06:17:44 b again 06:17:49 ahahahaha 06:17:49 monqy: sorry 06:17:53 i just 06:17:56 remember the part where 06:17:57 so fucking lucky 06:18:00 you could have gotten out of lose quicklier with nu 06:18:03 i warned NihilistDandy about how this was going to kill him 06:18:04 and then 06:18:06 lol 06:18:08 THREE MINUTES LATER 06:18:10 IT DID NOT 06:18:13 it did not? 06:18:14 cheer up 06:18:15 it's not over yet 06:18:16 he might still die 06:18:18 :D 06:18:19 there are a few normal centaurs left 06:18:26 and nd is really bad at crawl 06:18:27 Centaur warrior is dead. Centaurs are made of babies. 06:18:28 :D 06:18:29 so he'll find a way to die to them 06:18:29 I can’t fathom how he’s still alive. 06:18:31 Sobad at crawl 06:18:31 dude 06:18:32 nothing 06:18:33 It's insane 06:18:34 is made of babies 06:18:36 at 21 hp 06:18:37 with his style of playing 06:18:45 nah lots of things are made of babies at 21hp 06:18:49 ion: 26 str, +1,+4 antimagic executioner's axe 06:18:56 wow 06:19:07 i fucking hate you for surviving another situation against all logic 06:19:08 d:1 trash for example is made of babies. on d:1 you don't even HAVE 21 hp 06:19:11 i think i need to watch this. someone link me the -cast 06:19:17 monqy: D:1 trash is not trash if you're, e.g., a felid 06:19:18 quintopia: telnet crawl.develz.org 345 06:19:19 elliott: mibe reasons 06:19:19 w 06:19:20 TROG KNOWS NO LOGIC 06:19:23 (I almost died to a hobgoblin) 06:19:24 choose nihilistdandy's letter 06:19:34 Patashu: d:1 trash isn't always trash on d:1 06:19:37 Patashu: it's trash on d:13 06:19:40 oh, yes 06:19:42 elliott: But he has gone to 1/5 health a number of times and then danced in arrow rain and then survived by miraculous luck. 06:19:45 dude 06:19:46 DUDE 06:19:48 Patashu: unless you get like an orc with disto that you somehow miss 06:19:49 HOW HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED 06:20:01 did he even have cover he could get behind that time 06:20:09 well 06:20:10 good point 06:20:12 he really didn't 06:20:13 but he was so cavalier about it!!! 06:20:17 and since centaurs are faster than you 06:20:20 you can't go far for covers 06:20:26 Patashu: do you really think he 06:20:26 (yaktaurs you see later will be same speed, otoh) 06:20:30 oh 06:20:30 thought out that reasoning in his head 06:20:31 of course not 06:20:31 before doing it 06:20:32 I'm just saying 06:20:37 NihilistDandy: GL 06:20:42 GL immediately before you meet another centaur warrior 06:20:47 the lair has no centaurs, only hydrae 06:20:47 I didn't see what happened but likely I would just have charged them 06:20:49 Not done exploring and flying in the face of logic 06:20:58 we've fed into this delusion too much 06:20:59 backing up to cover can be worse than charging in many cases 06:21:03 ah, good 06:21:05 mmm, more centaurs 06:21:07 yum yum 06:21:10 back up 06:21:12 thank god 06:21:16 ugh 06:21:18 you didn't cut that corner 06:21:19 now go for the kill 06:21:20 i'm crying 06:21:26 move into melee range 06:21:27 rofl 06:21:28 bio won't help 06:21:32 they're too weak at your piety level 06:21:41 NihilistDandy: you realise it burns piety right 06:21:48 you have to sacrifice corpses for every bia 06:21:59 elliott: Yeah, but damn it's fun 06:22:03 rofl 06:22:05 I'll have plenty of corpses 06:22:06 Patashu: i love how he just runs around with no diagonals in realtime 06:22:08 after bia 06:22:12 PROBLEM SOLVED 06:22:14 diagonals. what are those. 06:22:14 also 06:22:15 just play musu my god 06:22:19 rofl 06:22:22 also also 06:22:24 cyclops sounds bad 06:22:25 watch out for that cyclops 06:22:27 since you have like no hp 06:22:28 also also ALSO 06:22:29 use trog's hand 06:22:36 I’ve been trying to get ellie to play DESu. 06:22:40 for moar hp 06:22:46 musu was a joke, ion 06:22:48 hi cyclops 06:22:53 no 06:22:54 wow 06:22:54 dude 06:22:54 stop 06:22:57 you fucking 06:22:58 moron 06:23:00 ahahahahah what 06:23:01 no 06:23:02 no 06:23:07 you want to blink or something not just 06:23:09 oh my god 06:23:09 just 06:23:09 stop 06:23:11 for 06:23:12 how did this haPpen 06:23:13 a minute 06:23:15 no 06:23:17 STOP 06:23:19 aaaaaaah 06:23:21 s/^ // 06:23:22 why did yoit's going to hit you with a rock and you will die 06:23:32 NihilistDandy: yOU HAVE MESSAGES PRESS _ 06:23:42 * ion is laughing out loud 06:23:46 how 06:23:48 how did you survive that 06:23:50 what use is checking messages if it's just squarelos greeting you 06:23:52 ion: i've been laughing for the past 06:23:54 3-5 minutes 06:23:55 no 06:23:56 c'mon 06:23:56 dude 06:23:57 death by rock 06:23:57 it throws 06:23:59 ahahah did you really thingk it would be a good idea to rest there 06:23:59 rocks 06:24:03 ahahahahaha 06:24:08 get up the stairs 06:24:10 god 06:24:11 no 06:24:12 quaff 06:24:12 wrONG WAY 06:24:12 `log [s]trong with nihilist 06:24:13 wow, plowing through thos e blinking scrolls 06:24:13 something 06:24:15 you idiot 06:24:20 2012-05-04.txt:05:16:20: sounds like the force is strong with nihilist 06:24:27 no don't go back 06:24:29 :-D 06:24:29 NO 06:24:30 STOP 06:24:31 STOP FIGHTING 06:24:32 WHY 06:24:32 aahhahahahahaha 06:24:34 wow, look at that 06:24:35 let him die 06:24:35 ARE YOU FIGHTING IT 06:24:36 the cyclops found you 06:24:36 he deserves it 06:24:39 how can this possibly have happened 06:24:39 . 06:24:45 I want this so much 06:24:46 god this is 06:24:47 I mean wow 06:24:48 the funniest thing ever 06:24:48 a LESSON LEARNT 06:24:50 NihilistDandy: quaff 06:24:51 or 06:24:52 something 06:24:54 i don't know 06:24:55 My cheek muscles hurt for laughing so much. 06:24:56 wait 06:24:58 maybe he should 06:25:00 idk 06:25:04 i guess you can quaff curing 06:25:09 no tough 06:25:10 don't teleport 06:25:12 rofl 06:25:13 read fear 06:25:15 you would die the next turn 06:25:19 Patashu: would that help at this point 06:25:21 yes 06:25:22 if it works 06:25:23 or would it get a kick in first 06:25:23 I wasn't thinking teleport 06:25:24 ok 06:25:27 NihilistDandy: read fear 06:25:27 then 06:25:29 quaff curing for god's sake 06:25:37 Now go straight to < 06:25:38 duck behind a wall or something 06:25:41 yeah go < 06:25:43 look at how much curing sucks 06:25:46 no 06:25:46 G< 06:25:51 i don't trust you to 06:25:52 run by yourself 06:25:52 wrong way 06:25:53 stoooop 06:25:55 why are you goign that way 06:25:55 ……………… 06:25:56 hahahaha 06:25:58 do you have digging 06:26:01 no 06:26:04 Sadly, no 06:26:05 just turn around 06:26:07 and go to the exit normally 06:26:10 just 06:26:12 hit 5 06:26:14 no 06:26:17 oops 06:26:18 :-D 06:26:19 why DID YOU HIT 5 06:26:28 :--D 06:26:28 :-D 06:26:30 :-D 06:26:31 :---D 06:26:32 :-D 06:26:40 ok uhhh 06:26:41 maybe bia? 06:26:42 will it 06:26:43 no 06:26:46 ummmm 06:26:50 he doesn't have any curing potions left right 06:26:50 no 06:26:51 stop 06:26:52 stp 06:26:54 stop 06:26:58 use X 06:26:58 sotp 06:27:00 ostp 06:27:02 stop 06:27:03 then somehow survive 06:27:04 stop 06:27:05 so you can die to trog wrath 06:27:06 stop 06:27:07 I'm not doing anything. Just giving you info 06:27:08 that'll be gr8 06:27:08 stop 06:27:10 stop 06:27:12 try fear again 06:27:14 yeah i think 06:27:18 reading fear is probably your best bet 06:27:21 oops 06:27:22 wait 06:27:22 It won’t work again so soon. 06:27:24 didn't you have like 06:27:24 5 06:27:25 nice fear collection 06:27:30 AFAIR 06:27:31 hey I'm back 06:27:32 he's not dead yet? 06:27:33 Maybe fog? 06:27:34 that was tele, elliott. telliott 06:27:40 Patashu: he practically is 06:27:40 Patashu: he did bad things 06:27:46 he's rested and run into the cyclops again about 5 times 06:27:47 Maybe fog, he says. 06:27:47 wtf 06:27:48 Such bad things 06:27:53 NihilistDandy: just 06:27:54 do nothing 06:27:55 also, fog only helps against ranged attacks 06:27:55 let us 06:27:56 think 06:28:00 let the cyclops kill you 06:28:04 Patashu: Good to know 06:28:05 monqy: no i 06:28:08 want him to die to a rat or something 06:28:09 you won't learn if you keep escaping death 06:28:11 ok 06:28:19 monqy: that's what i said btw 06:28:22 i don't know if you will or won't learn if you keep escaping death but 06:28:25 i just want you to die 06:28:27 at this point 06:28:28 NihilistDandy: just 06:28:28 press i 06:28:29 lol 06:28:30 this character can live on and become something glorious 06:28:31 let us look at your inventory 06:28:39 would enslavement work on a cyclops 06:28:41 Ooh, disintegration might work 06:28:43 no 06:28:43 stop 06:28:43 it would, but MR check first 06:28:46 lol 06:28:54 it also might not hit for all the cyclops hp 06:28:56 ooh, a bread ration might work 06:28:58 enslavement might be best because 06:28:59 Okay, well Gretell's not here, so... 06:29:00 it won't hit you any more 06:29:04 wield the chaos dagger 06:29:07 lmao 06:29:08 lol 06:29:09 "trust me on this" 06:29:09 'wield the chaos dagger' 06:29:10 no 06:29:13 lol 06:29:18 hey, it COULD work 06:29:18 then hit the cyclops 06:29:19 anyway 06:29:21 you might banish it 06:29:22 Throw the chaos dagger is the correct answer 06:29:25 come on it's worth a shot 06:29:26 NihilistDandy: zap enslavement at the cyclops 06:29:27 it's like 06:29:31 not going to work 06:29:32 you know what 06:29:33 if you throw it the chaos won't "proc" 06:29:33 but nothing else will either 06:29:35 it's probably out of rocks at this point 06:29:39 Patashu: ahahaha 06:29:42 Trust Me On This 06:29:44 hahahaha 06:29:45 wow 06:29:45 how 06:29:49 did he survive that 06:29:50 gdr 06:29:53 :-D 06:29:53 `log [s]trong with nihilist 06:29:55 ugh just hit it 06:29:55 easily resists 06:29:59 that means high MR right 06:30:00 no 06:30:01 stop 06:30:02 don't 06:30:02 just hit it 06:30:04 either you'll kill it soon enough or die 06:30:04 stop 06:30:05 it's how close it was to making the check 06:30:05 2012-05-04.txt:06:24:20: 2012-05-04.txt:05:16:20: sounds like the force is strong with nihilist 06:30:05 ahahahaha 06:30:07 you 06:30:07 YESSSSS 06:30:07 aposfkofdijgofhjtiuhyjtdy8t 06:30:08 :-DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 06:30:08 what 06:30:09 [rtijogfhiojghiojghiojgho 06:30:10 WHAT 06:30:11 hushiudfihuvdgiydvhidfhiudfhiudfhoudf 06:30:12 sklndgfm, hljkdhttslrae 06:30:13 congrats I guess 06:30:22 finally 06:30:22 that's one in a million, kid 06:30:26 ahahahaa 06:30:26 ooh 06:30:26 I’m sure crawl’s source code has special dice rolls for NihilistDandy. 06:30:28 maybe he'll die to this 06:30:33 i was expecting him to 06:30:35 start autoexploring again 06:30:36 before resting 06:30:38 quick 06:30:40 let him fend for himself on this one 06:30:40 let's all stop giving him advice 06:30:42 and see how long he lasts 06:30:43 wow he actually 06:30:43 yes 06:30:44 ducked 06:30:45 amazing 06:30:49 christ 06:31:02 i think he's doing this purposely to upset us by this point 06:31:24 I am actually a crawl master~ 06:31:29 no 06:31:30 rest 06:31:30 you 06:31:31 to be fair 06:31:32 thank you 06:31:33 :-D 06:31:34 it is pretty hilarious 06:31:34 also 06:31:36 no more advice 06:31:41 im still giving advice but 06:31:41 until he starts being good at crawl spontaneously 06:31:46 but what 06:31:46 it'll be advice of me not clawing my skin off 06:31:47 troll advice? 06:31:50 haha 06:31:55 Patashu: i have this 06:31:57 horrible vision 06:31:59 that he's going to win this game 06:32:03 :-D 06:32:04 that would be funny 06:32:07 but I bet he dies on vaults 8 06:32:17 NihilistDandy: lair 06:32:18 lair now 06:32:20 fucking lair 06:32:21 lair 06:32:30 no 06:32:31 god 06:32:32 dammit 06:32:34 rofl 06:32:34 bia 06:32:39 he can do the lair whenever he wants, maaaan 06:32:45 bia is going to suck 06:32:46 due to his piety 06:32:50 I'd use wands 06:33:02 ahahaha 06:33:18 no 06:33:18 dude 06:33:19 dont 06:33:20 ever 06:33:21 let him 06:33:22 melee a hydra 06:33:35 stop 06:33:37 you idiot 06:33:38 stop 06:33:46 I didn't mêlée it 06:33:49 you did 06:33:52 you did 06:33:52 because it grew another head 06:33:53 That was an attempt at BIA 06:34:01 btw 06:34:02 eight-headed 06:34:04 hits even harder 06:34:05 so 06:34:10 do you have heal wounds or whatever 06:34:15 drank it all 06:34:16 what is the effect of a hydra growing a head? 06:34:17 read all his blinking 06:34:23 quintopia: it gets stronger 06:34:26 NihilistDandy: hit _ 06:34:26 quintopia: more attacks 06:34:27 quintopia: It will become even more badass. 06:34:34 does it lose health? 06:34:43 monqy: art 06:34:46 anyway 06:34:50 Sav'd 06:34:52 NihilistDandy: try bia again 06:34:53 or 06:34:54 die 06:34:56 i don't know 06:34:59 DIE IT IS 06:35:02 does he even have any options here 06:35:02 * Sgeo plays with Bitlbee 06:35:06 no 06:35:06 stop 06:35:07 sotp 06:35:08 stop 06:35:10 how 06:35:10 whee 06:35:12 stop 06:35:14 stop 06:35:15 wow are you growing the hydra 06:35:15 what the hell is that picture squarelos sent 06:35:15 cheer up 06:35:16 wand it 06:35:16 stop 06:35:17 it's almost dead 06:35:17 before it heals 06:35:18 stop 06:35:20 how 06:35:20 wand it wand it 06:35:20 elliott, who are you talking to? 06:35:20 use lightning on it 06:35:22 no 06:35:24 he cannot survive this 06:35:26 disinteg it 06:35:28 Sgeo: NihilistDandy 06:35:30 ok 06:35:32 don't disint it 06:35:33 again 06:35:34 ok 06:35:35 lightning it 06:35:35 lightning? 06:35:38 lightning 06:35:41 disint has an MR check 06:35:42 jesus 06:35:43 which is gay 06:35:45 fucking christ 06:35:45 lol 06:36:03 no 06:36:04 blink frog 06:36:05 zombies 06:36:05 are 06:36:07 haha 06:36:07 not 06:36:09 you will die 06:36:11 next turn 06:36:14 stop 06:36:16 stop 06:36:17 sotp 06:36:19 stop 06:36:19 go to the upstairs 06:36:21 how 06:36:23 stop 06:36:25 wraiths are not 06:36:27 seriously 06:36:29 there's an upstairs right there 06:36:31 take it 06:36:50 wow look at that 06:36:52 -magically- 06:36:54 you are out of danger 06:36:58 aren't staircases fucking amazing 06:37:01 (not like brogue's) 06:37:02 wait until a centaur warrior comes 'round the corner 06:37:03 lol 06:37:09 eh 06:37:11 if a centaur appears 06:37:12 he can read fog 06:37:14 since he's in a corridor 06:37:17 ok 06:37:18 lair 06:37:19 immediately 06:37:20 no 06:37:21 i will not accept 06:37:24 disagreements 06:37:25 GL 06:37:27 GL 06:37:29 GL 06:37:30 I expected him to go back down the stairs without resting and then kill the wraith without dying. 06:37:31 I need to find food 06:37:31 no!!!! 06:37:33 GL 06:37:35 ion: :D 06:37:36 eat? 06:37:38 NihilistDandy: dude the lair has 06:37:42 so many things you can eat 06:37:45 it's crawling with minor bugs 06:37:50 and the entrance is 06:37:52 on this level 06:38:04 Yeesh, fine 06:38:33 GL 06:38:48 f i n a l l y 06:39:15 so, let's take bets on death cause 06:39:17 1) hydra 06:39:19 2) blink frog pack 06:39:22 3) death yak pack 06:39:24 4) comedy option 06:39:25 green rat 06:39:29 so 4 06:39:31 NihilistDandy: enxhant weapon 06:39:32 *enchant 06:39:56 his EV is 9 06:39:58 what happened with that 06:40:02 oh he got drained 06:40:05 and wasn't training armour 06:40:10 draining lowers your skills? 06:40:15 doesn't it? ok 06:40:20 NihilistDandy: can you please start taking our advice 06:40:21 god I hope it doesn't 06:40:21 more seriouslyn ow 06:40:23 *seriously now 06:40:27 Patashu: i have no idea, i was just guessing 06:40:46 I've been taking it seriously, I've just also been ignoring some of it for entertainment value 06:40:54 Don't pretend you don't enjoy my exploits :D 06:41:14 i wonder if that cloakis better than yours 06:41:16 probably not 06:41:19 it was pretty funny when he did absolutely everything wrong 06:41:20 and lived anyway 06:41:27 if he was xl27 it'd be a candidate for great near misses 06:41:51 Elven cloaks add stealthiness, but that’s irrelevant for your character. 06:41:52 Patashu: if these aren't some of the most-watched tvs 06:41:54 there is no justice 06:41:59 *don't become 06:42:18 Oh, are there people outside this channel watching this shit? 06:42:21 The TV would need to have this IRC discussion merged to the game. 06:42:27 That may be more hilarious 06:42:29 NihilistDandy: no, but moments can be recalled for TV 06:42:31 later on 06:42:33 Neato 06:42:36 your meat has gone off i think 06:42:39 (it's usually used to laugh at tile players' stupid deaths) 06:42:44 quintopia: TWSS 06:42:54 Tile players? 06:43:02 you have five viewers, so me ion quintopia monqy 06:43:04 and Patashu 06:43:09 NihilistDandy: people who play with the graphical tilesets 06:43:22 What makes them more prone to stupid deaths? 06:43:34 tiles are awful, people who use them are awful 06:44:16 I bought ten. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACGYVER-Original-floating-home-used-Richard-Dean-Andersons-home-TV-series-/140738046722?afsrc=1 06:44:27 once you have axes at 26 or 27 06:44:29 turn on armour and fighting 06:44:54 i love lair's doors 06:44:56 what's with them 06:44:58 they just 06:44:59 put doors there 06:45:03 lair generates a dungeon map 06:45:06 and then randomly adds noise 06:45:39 J for jelly eh? 06:46:16 ^F. 06:46:20 "Due to the incredible response on this auction, we have contacted the Guinness Book of World Records to see if we can create a new category for "Most Views on a Single Item on eBay"." 06:46:51 G> 06:47:08 Well, shit 06:47:19 < 06:47:29 i assign Patashu to blink frog duty 06:47:56 NihilistDandy: no point wandering around 06:48:00 you can go downstairs, it just requires planning 06:48:10 ion: Patashu: monqy: 06:48:19 hello 06:48:26 hi 06:48:47 he's going to die, you have to arrange it to be enterataining 06:48:49 *entertaining 06:49:08 Though knowing me, I might *not* die in the most hilarious way possible 06:49:52 ion: if you don't advice him 06:49:53 Jesus, I've been playing for 4 hours? 06:49:55 he'll start doing stupid stuff 06:49:57 *advise idk 06:51:22 he’ll “start doing stupid stuff”? 06:51:28 yeah yeah 06:51:29 just 06:51:30 do something 06:51:33 *stuff* 06:51:55 Press and hold tab 06:51:58 no 06:51:58 (don’t) 06:52:11 Gonna go ahead and smoke a pipe while you guys confer. My strategy involves BIA and holding tab. Maybe some Hand 06:52:16 oh, blink frogs 06:52:17 read ?tele 06:52:20 Or jerk. Haven't done that in a while 06:52:21 Patashu: he's on < 06:52:22 *berk 06:52:25 oh 06:52:26 use the < then 06:52:27 stairdance 06:52:28 he did 06:52:30 no that's awful 06:52:34 sigh 06:52:35 fine 06:52:37 what 06:52:38 That was an awesome Freudian typo. 06:52:40 NihilistDandy: press < and kill it 06:52:40 stairdancing is a great idea 06:52:42 now he only has to kill one thing 06:52:45 (or two I guess) 06:52:48 ion: i suspect it was intentional 06:53:01 sacrifice the other corpse 06:53:03 and then rest 06:53:25 cyan ugly thing? 06:53:29 ugly things can appear in lair? 06:53:57 that was lucky as shit 06:54:02 rest 06:54:03 no 06:54:04 dude 06:54:04 lol 06:54:04 i 06:54:05 now rest 06:54:07 rest 06:54:08 rest 06:54:10 rest 06:54:13 kill that 06:54:14 and eat it 06:54:21 what 06:54:22 are you DOING 06:54:22 you can kill it it's OK 06:54:25 lol 06:54:51 aand again 06:54:58 ok good 06:56:29 Hmm. Not great for mêlée 06:56:41 if it's alone you can tab it 06:56:51 I forgot how aggressive my autocorrect is 06:56:56 wait 06:56:58 your autocorrect -does- that 06:57:02 Yeah 06:57:03 I thought you were just being annoying 06:57:04 hahaha 06:57:16 lol 06:57:19 Sadly, no 06:57:21 (the 'sick' status turns off regen) 06:57:38 yake 06:57:41 monqy: are you watching this 06:57:46 its not to b mise 06:57:46 mmm, yaks 06:57:57 i love how you run to 06:57:59 Still no Trog gifts? I suppose not since you’ve been using BIA so much. 06:58:02 things that don't even resemble chokepoints 06:58:04 I mean, new ones. 06:58:05 ion: he's had two... 06:58:06 ah 06:58:11 yeah he needs to 06:58:15 p on all those corpses 06:58:17 p all over them 06:58:42 New wand 06:58:49 Rest 06:58:58 … 06:58:59 zap test 06:59:05 ion: it's only 84/92 he's been worse 06:59:19 Against a wall, so it gets id’d if it’s a wand of digging. 07:01:03 NihilistDandy: black mambas aren't that dangerous 07:01:09 you have rpois; they just hit kinda hard 07:01:10 sure they are 07:01:11 but he's diesel 07:01:28 Whoops 07:01:32 Read the wrong E 07:01:41 congrats 07:01:45 potions 07:01:46 id all those potions 07:01:47 and maybe r 07:01:58 Try r on first. 07:02:05 if you have a scroll of remove curse. 07:02:30 ID a potion 07:02:33 O 07:02:34 id O 07:02:38 haha 07:02:43 useful 07:02:44 quaff 'em 07:02:48 obviously 07:02:50 no 07:02:50 i 07:02:55 I will so do it 07:02:56 ok do it fine 07:02:59 why the hell not 07:03:00 Nah 07:03:13 A GIFT 07:03:21 junk 07:03:25 well 07:03:28 unless it's flaming 07:03:28 -!- noseovertail has joined. 07:03:29 then it's a swap 07:03:29 try it 07:03:34 This is my channel! 07:03:36 Yea! 07:03:39 `welcome noseovertail 07:03:42 `@ noseovertail ? esoteric 07:03:44 Hey elliot! 07:03:45 meh, anti-magic again 07:03:47 ok 07:03:49 noseovertail: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 07:03:51 back to the exec 07:04:01 noseovertail: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 07:04:02 o I thought this was esoteric terrance mckenna style 07:04:02 mmm, yaks 07:04:06 now can you swap back to the exec 07:04:08 LOL thanks 07:04:17 -!- noseovertail has left. 07:04:19 No esotericism here. 07:04:20 haha 07:04:21 Just anti-magic. 07:04:28 I knew that guy was in the wrong place. 07:04:34 The excitement of having found the right channel tipped my off. 07:04:35 *me 07:04:43 Nobody has trouble finding a channel about esoteric programming languages. 07:04:54 Done. Next level. 07:05:00 the lair is 8 levels btw 07:05:07 you're not going to find a better axe 07:05:44 the only kind of axe you'd want at this point is speed, vampiric, or flaming (for hydras) 07:05:59 or maybe holy wrath but you're not getting that 07:06:58 NihilistDandy: what were the two rings 07:07:19 junk 07:07:21 well 07:07:25 not necessarily 07:07:29 but not better than what you have 07:08:24 wow 07:08:26 look at all the things 07:08:35 clearly you need to keep hitting the hydra that isn't hurt at all 07:08:43 dude 07:08:43 stop 07:08:44 wtf 07:08:46 you're going to die next turn 07:08:47 stop 07:08:49 sotp moving 07:08:51 stop 07:08:52 it's cool 07:08:53 see 07:08:53 stop 07:08:55 stop 07:08:56 open the map 07:08:57 wow 07:09:06 no 07:09:07 dude 07:09:08 stop 07:09:12 NihilistDandy: you are going to die 07:09:14 if you do not listen to us 07:09:14 btw 07:09:18 use hand to regen faster if you're in danger 07:09:18 hit __ 07:09:20 hit _ 07:09:22 he's not going to die 07:09:34 btw are you training armour and fighting yet 07:09:36 you should 07:09:36 monqy: he was going to 07:09:43 he's not at mindelay yet 07:09:44 but 07:09:45 You said at 26 or 27 07:09:46 if you want to you can 07:09:54 hit _ 07:10:00 (I don't know if the 'min delay first' rule still applys for execs) 07:10:02 Who's squarelos? 07:10:09 having defenses and hp is important 07:10:14 This is my channel! 07:10:14 Yea! 07:10:14 obsessing over mindelay is silly 07:10:16 yeah, ok 07:10:18 turn on fighting and armour 07:10:30 also: other benefits from Fighting 07:10:33 like: damage etc etc 07:10:42 is it worth focusing axes 07:10:44 when it's so high 07:10:50 i'd defocus axes and focus fighting 07:10:51 "mindelay" 07:11:08 NihilistDandy: ps you're near starving 07:11:12 NihilistDandy: what armour are you in 07:12:53 > wait until not nauseous so you can finish your chunks > eat a ration instead??? 07:12:54 : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) 07:12:56 welcome to crawl 07:13:11 Patashu: Nausea's annoying 07:13:21 it is, but you didn't have to eat a ration either 07:13:26 nbd, keep playing 07:13:46 stop 07:13:48 go to the upstairs 07:14:02 why does he never notice _ 07:14:08 rofl 07:14:09 there we go 07:14:15 go up again 07:14:16 what 07:14:17 ok too late 07:14:23 haha 07:14:31 just 07:14:34 go up and down the stairs 07:14:35 at your leisure 07:14:38 stop 07:14:38 btw 07:14:42 going up and down the stairs takes 1-2 turns 07:14:44 god 07:14:44 finally 07:14:44 there we go 07:14:45 Woof 07:14:49 That was awesome 07:14:54 why did you do that 07:14:55 Mostly I just needed to go to bed 07:15:02 It was fun :D 07:15:04 monqy: he died 07:15:10 he died deliberately though 07:15:12 so it wasn't as funny 07:15:13 NihilistDandy: i predict you will never reach that stage again 07:15:25 08:15 who is nihilistdandy? 07:15:29 i don't know how to answer this question 07:15:31 elliott: I think you will find that Trog provides for the ones who bring him blood 07:15:50 08:15 and why did they stairdance a hydra several times without any plan? 07:16:04 it has already begun 07:16:15 lololol 07:16:17 TROG 07:16:19 TROG 07:16:20 TROG 07:16:21 TROG 07:16:37 couldn't you go to bed without dying? 07:16:38 monqy: he's on tv 07:16:47 monqy: Link? 07:16:56 NihilistDandy: telnet termcast.develz.org 07:16:57 b 07:18:02 oh no did you die 07:19:22 08:19 this isn't bad for 5 games 07:19:24 Yeah, but on purpose and to trivial challenges 07:19:24 monqy: how can he ever understand 07:22:51 Patashu: muck 07:23:16 :D 07:23:24 do you even know what muck is 07:26:03 Yes 07:26:22 what is it 07:26:30 Assuming we're still talking about text games, that is 07:26:39 yes, but probably not what you're thinking of 07:27:00 i'm referring to mummy chaos knight 07:27:04 Patashu: muck!!! 07:27:08 Oh, lol 07:27:31 Patashu: no you're doing it all wrong 07:27:33 die and go for muck 07:27:46 Next time I'll play muck 07:27:50 And I will rock it 07:28:02 nobody rocks muck 07:28:06 not even monqy and all he plays is muck 07:28:13 ragdoll rocks muck 07:28:37 Okay, too much talking in that channel 07:28:42 Patashu: you are going to disto a gsc and wield it right 07:29:11 and never let go 07:30:45 it's tempting 07:30:54 I don't know if I want to win or have fun yet 07:30:58 you can do 07:30:59 ~both~ 07:31:22 oh man 07:31:23 are you serious 07:31:30 yes 07:31:31 elliott, esolangs doesn't use php-cgi does it? 07:31:33 win with disto gsc 07:31:34 Or whatever 07:31:38 Sgeo: Why'd you ask? 07:31:38 so, ogres can't use armour, right? 07:31:42 so I should go spell casting hybrid at some point 07:31:44 elliott, bug, etc. 07:31:54 It uses php-fcgi. 07:32:01 "nginx+php-fpm are not affected" - so no. 07:32:10 Ah, ok 07:32:22 ?-s dumping source code would be irrelevant, anyway. 07:32:22 Maybe you meant: . ? @ ask bf do ft id msg pl rc v wn 07:32:31 The only exposed files are common MediaWiki stuff. 07:33:50 Somehow, I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Life is a more usable programming environment than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_Programming 07:34:06 Patashu: you're meant to dig or sth i think 07:34:37 08:34 Deleted sastopher[1/1]: Orc -> Elf -> Lair -> Swamp -> Snake -> Slime 07:34:39 wow what an order 07:35:16 pikhq_: It's probably easier to make a game of pong, anyway 07:35:21 * Sgeo is now interested in zero-player games 07:35:45 NihilistDandy: I'm not sure that BASIC Programming cart is even TC. 07:35:55 Sgeo: aka simulations 07:36:12 While Game of Life, of course, is. Modulo infinite space, of course. 07:36:21 Awesome 07:36:29 Math wins again 07:36:56 wow, what the hell 07:36:59 I have -five- heal wounds potions 07:37:01 and I'm only on D:3 07:37:03 Nice 07:37:18 'You can now bend space around yourself.' 07:37:19 is that good 07:37:26 that happened to me once 07:37:32 oh, it's blink+dispersal 07:37:33 cool 07:37:51 kmc: you should play crawl so all this stuff makes sense to you 07:37:58 don't you always bend space around yourself? 07:37:59 drugs: like video game powerups for real life 07:38:33 Sgeo: now ##crawl know my SECRET IDENTITY!!! 07:38:43 'You can now bend more space around yourself' just lacks panache. 07:40:16 wow 07:40:18 that bend space sure helped! 07:40:27 ~first heal wounds quaff of the game~ 07:40:40 What, that you're a scientist who, in a tragic type-level programming accident, created the most chaotic IRC bot possessed of AI and a taste for text games ever seen? 07:41:04 lambdabot being a close second. 07:41:31 Does DF count as a text game? 07:41:47 Sgeo: well i was rambling in #gamedev the other day about non-interactive games 07:42:04 Yes. 07:42:12 Or rather, a glyph game or whatever. 07:42:19 and how flash movies on newgrounds might almost count as games 07:42:45 you guys are already familiar with the nature of my rants though. 07:43:05 That flash is awful and shut up that is the end of the discussion? 07:43:17 nods 07:44:06 What do you imagine it would take to wipe PHP off the programming map? 07:44:34 tipex 07:44:41 Other than extermination (fsvo "other") 07:45:20 *Tipp-Ex 07:45:34 Unless you think...YES 07:45:36 Of course 07:45:43 An Israel pop band has been the key all along 07:45:50 *Israeli 07:45:50 humm.. drive it to near extinction 07:46:08 *fuckyou 07:46:20 *marryme 07:46:34 Teapacks (also known as Tipex) (Hebrew: טיפקס‎) was an Israeli band that formed in 1988 in the southern Israeli city of Sderot. Originally the band was named after the correction fluid Tipp-Ex, but the name was then changed so as not to infringe on the well-known brand. 07:46:48 Oh, fair point 07:47:10 go to guy for tipp-ex 07:47:27 Being European helps with that 07:47:42 We call that whiteout (Wite-Out) 07:48:31 Yeah, um, that's the first time I've seen "Tipp-Ex". 07:48:48 hey, elliot 07:48:50 want to see how my first ogak died 07:48:51 it was unreal 07:48:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI_S0tswjWc 07:49:00 Patashu: k 07:49:10 I probably played wrong 07:49:11 but it was funny 07:49:19 elliott: I like this song already 07:49:30 They sound a bit like DDT or Gogol Bordello 07:49:49 And a little like Zlad 07:50:20 blonk 07:50:24 mmm, meph 07:50:35 so I hit it a bunch but suck at combat 07:50:39 so I have to guzzle ?heal wounds like a moron 07:50:44 NihilistDandy: this song is actually great 07:50:46 i mean 07:50:52 for eurovision at the least 07:50:58 Yeah, I'm into it 07:51:14 then I realize 'this isn't working' 07:51:17 Patashu: your error was using mephitic cloud 07:51:18 so I back up and use the goblin as cover 07:51:23 until the goblin gets confused and stops being my meat shield 07:51:26 and then I just run for the stairs 07:51:27 and then 07:51:28 this happens 07:51:41 fucking game 07:51:46 I laughed, though 07:51:49 elliott: shachaf: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/monqy.png 07:51:50 rip 07:51:59 I got confused and fell down the stairs 07:52:00 monqy: you neglected to misspell your name!!! 07:52:02 otherwise gr8 gr8 gr8 07:52:03 yet it still took like 3 turns for it to stop 07:52:09 how do i misspell "monqy" 07:52:10 is that what you look like 07:52:14 monqy: monky 07:52:16 oh 07:52:25 i also "forgot" to put monqy before the thing 07:52:34 its ok you get a special self-portrait 07:52:36 maybe my "forgettings" cancel each other out 07:52:46 im going to set that as the esolang wiki's background 07:53:13 I'm thinking ghoul next time. I like getting health from consuming corpses 07:53:21 & yes that is what i look at 07:53:24 especially in real life 07:53:31 That's exactly what I expected 07:53:57 monqy: are you a pear 07:54:00 yes 07:54:06 ah 07:54:16 i'm not 07:54:20 We are all pears here. Pear-reviewed esolang discussion 07:56:16 monqy: what's crawl 07:56:24 i dont know 07:56:32 me too 07:57:33 Oh, crawl? You guys should try it! It's a roguelike, but with no rules or strategies, just cowboys 07:59:32 console cowboys? 08:00:06 elliott: help should i use faith or clarity 08:00:27 uhhhh 08:00:29 faith means xom acts more but clarity means he won't confuse me (assuming that bug's fixed where xom confuses through clarity) which means less lame deaths 08:00:38 do you want to laugh or win 08:00:42 D: 08:00:52 ostensibly less lame deaths means more laughs 08:01:01 go for clarity then 08:02:51 @time monqy 08:02:52 Local time for monqy is Fri May 4 01:02:51 2012 08:02:58 monqy: oops 08:03:02 deazly 08:06:06 monqy: rip 08:07:07 Maybe Xom is what was missing from my last play 08:07:29 well 08:07:32 xom would make your play more NihilistDandy 08:07:36 but i think you need to make it less NihilistDandy instead 08:07:47 are you watching squarelos? 08:07:55 No, should I? 08:07:58 well 08:08:00 it's always an experience 08:08:24 Who the hell is he, anyway? 08:08:28 monqy 08:08:29 In channel, that is 08:08:32 Oh, okay 08:08:36 this is the second time i've told you that 08:08:54 the flashing square thing is his, that's not part of the game itself 08:09:07 also he has both autoexplore and a custom autofight script on space and bashes it a lot 08:09:08 uh 08:09:10 kinda like you actually 08:09:26 I might be in love 08:09:34 He is much faster, of course 08:10:06 I like "squarelos the Poker" 08:10:08 monqy: running from sigmund? how could you 08:10:20 I was slowed then got confused and then sandwiched with an ogre 08:10:27 he just wants to say hi 08:11:45 monqy: you should convert to chei 08:12:51 why 08:13:04 monqy: exactly 08:13:17 imagine all the fun of xom and all the slow of chei 08:17:01 09:16 who's on squarelos? 08:17:04 i don't understand this question 08:17:07 monqy: has anyone but you ever been on squraelos 08:17:10 *squarelos 08:17:15 yes 08:17:20 in the past year 08:17:24 yes 08:17:28 in the past 6 months 08:17:31 i think so 08:17:33 in the past 3 months 08:17:34 ask blade 08:17:40 who isn't online 08:17:42 in the past 24 hours 08:17:44 in the past 3 minutes 08:18:56 I just got 6 silver javelins from Xom 08:19:12 are you really 08:19:13 playing muck 08:19:17 Yeah 08:19:20 Doing okay, too 08:19:23 monqy: you might want to tell NihilistDandy why muck is a bad idea even if xom 08:19:29 LIKE YOU DIDN'T TO ME FOR MY FIRST FEW GAMES 08:19:29 NihilistDandy: muck is a bad idea 08:19:41 was i even around then 08:19:41 i said why not tha 08:19:42 *that 08:19:45 monqy: i don't remember 08:19:54 i chose muck because of you though 08:20:18 NihilistDandy: it's this bad: 09:20 muck[1/1]: Win this (without abandoning Xom) and you can win any argument before it starts. 08:21:12 what a great grinder strategy 08:21:12 i 08:21:13 no 08:21:15 you're kidding me 08:21:19 monqy: watch nihilistdandy 08:21:20 he just 08:21:25 meleed grinder with 22 hp and died 08:21:32 but xom revived him and gave him a crimson imp 08:21:44 this is awful he's going to survive again 08:21:45 Shit was so cash 08:21:49 No, I died 08:21:53 thank god 08:21:57 don't play muck 08:22:01 Being crazy is totally worth it, though 08:22:09 you can play ck 08:22:12 just don't play mu with it 08:22:28 The lack of hunger is really convenient, though 08:22:34 yeah but 08:22:37 you also can't quaff potions 08:22:43 Also, short sword 08:22:44 which xom makes even worse than it already is 08:22:50 spear is the best starting weapon 08:22:51 monqy wisdom 08:23:02 Right, short sword is the worst 08:23:19 you should open that door 08:23:20 no 08:23:21 the other one 08:23:25 no 08:23:28 if youre playing muck 08:23:33 then thats the kind of thing youre doing on a regular basis 08:23:51 don't you dare fucking survive 08:23:55 jesus christ 08:24:00 lol 08:25:11 monqy: hi 08:25:26 elliott: chaos spear zerked the trol 08:25:51 SID 08:25:56 monqy: has anyone won muck with xom 08:25:56 ? 08:26:00 elliott: yes 08:26:04 NihilistDandy: it doesn't matter 08:26:05 you're muck 08:26:11 pick anything, you will die the same 08:26:21 elliott: contrary to popular belief, i'm not the best player, and i certainly got worse after my hiatus 08:26:29 monqy: nonsense 08:26:31 you're the best player 08:26:39 how else could you dispense such pure wisdom 08:27:13 Oh, and I haven't even touched my skills 08:27:19 This is crazy 08:27:29 monqy: for example 08:27:34 monqy: has anyone else made their player into a flashing square 08:28:12 I don';t think so 08:28:30 monqy: exactly 08:29:00 I have a ring of see invisible 08:29:05 This is great news 08:29:12 closest would probably be xomscumming (ragdoll), who uses a flashing M 08:29:46 i know them because they died to a butterfly 08:29:50 (i asked sequell) 08:29:57 ah yes, I was around for that 08:30:07 was it intentional 08:30:10 yes 08:30:18 that makes it less cool 08:30:20 we had a "dying to things without attacks" party 08:30:21 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:30:35 like fungi and toadstools and plants and bushes and butterflies 08:30:46 good 08:30:59 Level 4 08:32:24 Is there a scroll with very specific requirements for use? I've used this one near enemies and walls, but it doesn't seem to do anything 08:32:35 Oh, curse jewelry 08:32:37 Sweet 08:32:55 Cursed ring of see invisible :D 08:33:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:34:30 elliott: have you tried smart kobold yet 08:34:33 monqy: no should i 08:34:36 yes 08:34:40 right now? 08:34:42 sure 08:34:43 i'd say to termcast it but 08:34:46 :'( 08:34:51 i could 08:34:53 stream it 08:34:54 if you know of a 08:35:01 not-completely-terrible thing for that 08:35:03 uhhhhh 08:35:06 depends on your standards 08:35:11 low 08:35:15 well high but 08:35:17 i can't expect much 08:35:24 i use justin.tv because it's the first thing i found a hacky shell script thingy to stream with 08:35:32 where by hacky shell script thingy i mean 08:35:43 elliott: If you were watching a second ago, you'd have shit yourself with rage at my survival 08:35:45 what to pass to ffmpeg to make it do streamy 08:36:03 monqy: the os x thing is still a problem 08:36:07 turns out ogak is better once you know you can pray over corpses 08:36:12 i'll try building it 08:37:19 Level 5 08:37:36 yaey 08:38:23 Now download libtcod1.5.0 and install into ../lib. You can copy the 08:38:23 version in ../../linux/lib to ../lib to get this effect. 08:38:25 uugh 08:38:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:38:39 ok let me try wine 08:39:37 wow, this ogak is crazy 08:39:44 I just met two ogres in a row and suffered no problems whatsoever 08:39:46 O_O 08:39:49 he's just suddenly...good??? 08:40:11 monqy: im compiling wine 08:40:20 failing that i'll reboot i think i have a disused linux partition on here 08:41:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:41:59 Warning: Clang currently miscompiles some parts of Wine. If you have gcc, you 08:41:59 can get a more stable build with: 08:41:59 brew install wine --use-gcc 08:42:00 oopse 08:43:01 monqy: i need squarelos entertainment for all this effort 08:43:09 ok 08:46:55 monqy: what happened 08:46:58 bad 08:47:16 rip 08:48:13 Srg 08:48:21 i didn't notice the water mocasine 08:50:31 is smart kobold really hard to play :( 08:50:59 depends on what you mean hard, play 08:51:05 thanks 08:52:26 god this build is so slow 08:52:28 @time monqy 08:52:31 Local time for monqy is Fri May 4 01:52:29 2012 08:52:35 happy 01:52:59 08:52:57 why couldn't you just get libtcod is there no mac libtcod or something 08:53:38 i guess i could i just 08:53:42 gave up after seeing it's not in homebrew 08:53:48 oh 08:54:26 should i just compile it myself 08:54:27 ill try it 08:54:43 where's the source 08:56:36 http://doryen.eptalys.net/libtcod/ oh no wheres the sourc 08:56:50 oh theres "svn" oh it's 404 08:57:11 https://bitbucket.org/jice/libtcod sourc 08:57:18 yeah i found that 08:57:59 how do i build libtcod 08:58:08 there's cmake crap and stuff here 08:58:09 no clue 08:58:13 uuugh 08:58:14 well 08:58:16 wine installed 08:58:17 ive only ever just used the binarys 08:58:18 lemme try this 08:58:20 ok 08:59:19 oh hey 08:59:20 i 08:59:22 found a thing 08:59:45 An application has requested X11 to change the resolution of your display. X11 will restore the display to its previous state when the requesting application requests to return to the previous state. Alternatively, you can use the ⌥⌘A key sequence to force X11 to return to the previous state. 08:59:45 help 09:00:04 monqy: go on 09:00:20 i can make my language change every turn i think 09:00:29 im going to do it 09:00:30 oh 09:00:30 howso 09:00:38 i discovered: crawl.setopt 09:00:43 omg 09:00:43 monqy: make it 09:00:46 change charset every turn 09:00:48 so the walls flahs 09:00:49 *flash 09:02:12 * elliott installs cmake oops 09:02:45 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:03:31 -!- elliott has joined. 09:04:54 it works 09:04:54 monqy: its not work 09:04:56 oh does it 09:04:57 oh so it does 09:05:05 monqy: you should make it never choose the same one twice in a row 09:05:13 also you didn't do the charset thing :'( (creibriadoses) 09:05:16 :( 09:05:30 monqy: wait i have a better idea 09:05:39 monqy: make the layout of the stats display change every turn 09:05:54 i'm going to make the hud panel change colours 09:07:04 wow im going to make so many of my options random 09:07:06 it's going to be great 09:07:53 just change a random option randomly each tur 09:07:54 *turn 09:08:02 wait 09:08:02 wait 09:08:22 monqy: change whether the messages are on top or bottom randomly every 50 turns or so 09:08:30 aaaahgh yesss 09:10:02 ../dircontrol.h:41: error: ‘NAME_MAX’ was not declared in this scope 09:10:02 ugh 09:10:28 ../firefly.cpp:65: error: ‘class TCODConsole’ has no member named ‘setBack’ 09:10:29 ugh 09:10:39 ... 09:10:52 That's the first time I've been highlighted because of a file name, I think 09:11:43 monqy: im maybe going to reboot into os x; does the justintv shell script you found support streaming a single window 09:12:19 no :( but if you make the streamy portion small and put your window in the top right of your screen it "works just fine" 09:12:34 probably there are better shell scripts but i just haven't needed one 09:12:34 uugh 09:12:37 that's annoying because 09:12:42 i want to tab to irc 09:12:45 ok i'll keep hacking this source 09:14:49 ugh 09:14:51 this tcod shit 09:14:53 is so shitty 09:14:58 the stable release 09:15:00 has no build system 09:15:02 the hg stuff 09:15:03 doesn't work 09:15:19 do the binarys do they not work?? 09:16:08 http://doryen.eptalys.net/libtcod/download/ 09:16:11 do you see an os x binary here 09:16:18 oh whoa there is 09:16:18 but 09:16:21 it's of too old a version 09:16:39 also a beta release 09:16:42 "beta" 09:16:47 smart kobold wants 1.5.0 09:17:02 hows wine 09:17:08 it just crashed 09:17:13 =/ 09:17:16 uhhh do i have a virtual machine thing on here 09:17:20 nope 09:17:32 ill try upgrading x11 09:20:17 monqy: ugh this stuff looks like a pain 09:20:19 where's your script 09:20:24 what script 09:20:30 oh 09:20:32 that thing 09:21:50 where i found it was http://michaelchinen.com/2011/06/27/justin-tv-streaming-in-linux/ but searching for justin tv ffmpeg returns a lot more results which might be better 09:22:10 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10050988/haskell-removes-all-occurrences-of-a-given-value-from-within-a-list-of-lists 09:22:13 scroll down to the last answer :D 09:22:20 monqy: that's what i found too 09:23:23 also this deleted one 09:23:23 [[ 09:23:25 Thanks to your class mate I seem to have proof you are cheating on my coursework! Mr Badr expect 0% for your Haskell coursework and we may even remove the marks already attained in your previous coursework. Furthermore this username will be sent to other all the lectures who will check for plagiarism in for their coursework. You have been warned and have been told several times that you must not do this and their will be a severe pena 09:23:26 lty! Your autumn modules will be reviewed too! 09:23:28 Please Contact the your tutor who will give you advice on this situation. 09:23:30 ]] 09:26:55 monqy: how did your configuration go 09:26:59 uhh 09:27:01 configuration?? 09:27:17 crawl 09:27:19 oh 09:27:20 it's 09:27:22 still going 09:32:29 wow changing status caption colour each turn makes it so they each get a different colour that applies when they're updated 09:33:18 i want to se 09:33:20 *see 09:33:35 that's good 09:33:40 not quite good enough yet though 09:33:47 right i've only just started 09:34:48 Error: No available formula for zenity 09:34:48 ugh 09:36:06 monqy: might have smart kobold running soon 09:36:17 yesss!! 09:38:42 what else to randomis hm 09:39:22 Unhandled exception: unimplemented function msvcp80.dll.??0?$basic_ifstream@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@QAE@PBDHH@Z called in 32-bit code (0x7b82756c). 09:39:23 ugh 09:40:44 monqy: ill try linux 09:40:55 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:25 -!- elliott has joined. 09:42:30 ugh this installation is disused 09:42:31 monqy: hi 09:42:47 helo 09:43:50 ./kobold_bin: error while loading shared libraries: libtcod.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 09:43:53 i forget what this error means 09:44:43 libtcod.so is in ../lib 09:44:47 er 09:44:51 well 09:44:53 somewhere in there 09:44:54 right but 09:44:57 i copied it 09:44:57 so 09:45:08 oh hmm 09:45:15 did you copy it onto your loadpath 09:45:21 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. works :p 09:47:38 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:47:41 -!- elliott_ has joined. 09:47:48 monqy: it ~sort~of~works~ 09:47:58 i start it and little lines of blue light dance at the top of the screen 09:48:00 and the music starts 09:48:01 and they keep dancinga 09:48:04 *dancing 09:48:06 and nothing else happens 09:48:08 and it's fullscreen 09:48:17 unfollscren it 09:48:19 how 09:48:23 theres a thing 09:48:28 thanks 09:48:42 when you start it 09:48:53 thers a togl full screen option 09:48:55 no 09:48:57 you don't understand 09:49:03 it does not show anything on my screen apart from the tiny lines of light at the top 09:49:28 uhhhh 09:49:32 how did that happen 09:49:46 let me check my crystal ball. 09:50:26 does anyone know how to force sdl to be windowed 09:50:32 alternatively 09:50:39 you could try wineing it 09:50:40 monqy: what exact keystrokes do i need from it starting to get it windowed 09:50:42 so i could do it blind 09:50:51 no, it doesn't work in wine, i tried on os x 09:50:56 it was an error with an unimplemented function 09:50:56 so 09:51:20 jjjjjjj 09:52:03 noted 09:52:09 how long do you have to wait before starting it for that to work 09:52:11 loading time and stuff 09:52:19 and does the music take a while to start for you too 09:52:30 the music happens once you start playing the game 09:52:46 huh, it suddenly started working 09:52:57 it's a bit small windowed :( 09:53:02 :( 09:53:07 i'll lower my resolutionle 09:53:09 *resolution 09:53:10 less to stream too 09:54:03 monqy: link script again? 09:55:34 http://michaelchinen.com/2011/06/27/justin-tv-streaming-in-linux/ i had to change it a bit to get it working but 09:55:42 can i have your copy 09:55:43 ive done enough 09:55:44 changing 09:55:45 for one day 09:56:41 i changed the qual line to 09:56:45 QUAL="ipod320" # one of the many FFMPEG preset 09:56:55 since thats a ffmpeg preset for me and "fast" is not 09:57:02 and i changed the ffmpeg invokation to 09:57:06 ffmpeg -f x11grab -s "$INRES" -r "$FPS" -i :0.0 -f alsa -ac 2 -i hw:0,0 -vol 4096 -vcodec libx264 -vpre "$QUAL" -s "$OUTRES" -acodec libmp3lame -ar 11025 -ab 128k -threads 0 -f flv "rtmp://live.justin.tv/app/$STREAM_KEY flashver=FMLE/3.0\20(compatible;\20FMSc/1.0)" 09:57:14 because of i forget why 09:57:24 oh right uh 09:57:31 thaaaaaaaats a bit broken i think 09:57:40 because there's one part that I should have changed 09:57:41 but I didn't 09:57:45 and II keep forgetting to 09:58:04 the -vol thing i think it is 09:58:24 im like 3 seconds away from giving up on this and never playing smart kobold 09:58:28 since i've gotten reports of my streams have hilaribad clippy audio 09:58:32 :( 09:58:48 at least play smart kobold, even if you don't stream it 09:58:52 how bad will the quality be at 960x600 anyway 09:58:58 i doubt you'll be able to see the individual tiles 09:59:00 dunno 09:59:32 what target fps??? 09:59:32 should i use 09:59:43 i just 20 for that 10:00:00 (i havent messed with it) 10:00:00 which is the vol thing 10:00:11 oh 4096 10:00:11 its one of the ffmepg flags 10:00:13 what should i change that to 10:00:16 dunno 10:00:19 "havent mesed" 10:00:32 im fine with awful clippy audio it's like home to me 10:00:56 please open up http://www.justin.tv/ehird 10:01:22 opend 10:01:24 [rtmp @ 0x138d660] Server error: Authentication Failed. 10:01:24 help 10:01:28 uhh 10:01:34 did you put your stream key in the stream key thing 10:01:43 yes 10:01:57 i don't know whats wronge :( 10:02:16 btw i won't be looking at the 10:02:17 chat thing 10:02:21 ~irc~ 10:02:25 i wont be using it 10:03:19 http://community.justin.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=7479 10:03:23 [[ 10:03:24 Long & short of it is simple - FFMpeg is NOT intended for streaming stuff on the Internet. Never was. It's only intended for playing stuff back locally. 10:03:24 Try not using FFMpeg. You'll be amazed at what will happen..... 10:03:24 Cheers 10:03:25 ]] 10:03:27 thanks a lot buddy 10:04:08 oh 10:04:12 you have to cut off the flashver apparently?? 10:04:21 that works 10:04:24 monqy: am i broadcasting 10:04:32 your thing is flashing 10:04:39 but not quite baordcasting yet 10:04:44 [libx264 @ 0x1690400] broken ffmpeg default settings detected 10:04:44 [libx264 @ 0x1690400] use an encoding preset (e.g. -vpre medium) 10:04:45 [libx264 @ 0x1690400] preset usage: -vpre -vpre 10:04:45 [libx264 @ 0x1690400] speed presets are listed in x264 --help 10:04:45 [libx264 @ 0x1690400] profile is optional; x264 defaults to high 10:04:47 it's like it tried broadcasting but didnt quite make it 10:04:55 aha 10:04:57 now it's working 10:04:59 fast is a preset for me 10:04:59 yes 10:05:00 and ipod320 isn't 10:05:03 oh 10:05:03 can you see me 10:05:07 it's black 10:05:14 are you sure 10:05:15 "a start" 10:05:18 i'll refresh 10:05:29 i refreshed and it's still black 10:05:34 let me test 10:05:36 oh 10:05:39 there it goes? 10:05:44 great 10:05:52 does it work now? 10:05:55 oh wait no 10:05:58 wtf 10:05:59 it went offline and showed a pic 10:06:04 its offline now 10:06:15 what pic? my computer or just 10:06:16 "oops" 10:06:16 "any pice" 10:06:22 your computr 10:06:22 maybe the bitrate is too high 10:06:24 ok 10:06:34 i'll lower the audio bitrate 10:06:48 live again 10:06:49 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:06:51 black 10:06:59 "drop=18" 10:07:02 perhaps that has something to do with it 10:07:09 "drop=19" 10:07:28 is it dropping all of your frams 10:07:28 let me try a lower fps 10:07:38 ok try now 10:07:38 its 10:07:39 8 fps 10:07:41 anything can manage 8 fps 10:07:52 drop=9 lol 10:07:55 it's still blakce 10:08:15 whatever game you were playing before, i'm pretty sure ffmpeg is a worse game 10:09:00 lemme try and watch my own 10:09:15 ad 10:09:16 gr8 10:09:28 i didn't realize crawl had audio 10:09:34 it doesn't 10:09:37 whoa. 10:09:41 it does if you make it 10:10:01 you guys always take things to the next level 10:10:01 -!- elliott_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:10:10 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:10:52 -!- elliott_ has joined. 10:11:00 hmph 10:11:34 :( 10:12:04 can VLC do audio 10:12:10 no clue 10:13:02 it can play audio files. i dunno anything about streaming thouhg 10:13:27 monqy: maybe it's working now?? 10:13:39 its; black 10:13:48 well 10:13:52 the bitrate is like 273 kb/s 10:13:56 and my upload is like 10:13:58 less than that 10:14:39 monqy: now??? 10:14:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:16:09 what about now i set the resolution to something ridiculously low 10:16:21 oh it looks on 10:16:31 yeah it's 10:16:34 going alright 10:16:35 it should be a hideously distorted view of my screen 10:16:38 screenshot 10:16:42 i can 10:16:44 adjust the resolution and stuff 10:17:06 Oh fucking great, I have aura over half my field of vision. 10:17:06 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 10:17:07 (that was a request for a screenshot) 10:17:28 ...and my keyboard has forgotten that it's a UK one. 10:17:29 im screnshot 10:17:36 i too am screnshot 10:18:09 that's a quality bitrate 10:18:11 aura as in that stuff i see sometimes when i get low blood sugar 10:18:18 or aura as in a video game effect :P 10:18:20 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/notsobad.png 10:18:35 obviously the answer isnt important to me 10:18:36 haha nice it just 10:18:39 chopped off part of my screen 10:18:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:53 lemme try and start the game 10:18:55 see how terrible it looks 10:19:29 how does it look & what's the fps like 10:19:56 fps is good enough and i can see it "good enough" 10:20:04 what about the AUDIOE 10:20:11 it works 10:20:19 is it clip 10:20:46 no it's on the quiet side and only in my right ear phone 10:20:48 ill tweak the settings slightly just to make them less completely terrible 10:22:51 monqy: restarted 10:23:05 ites black 10:23:09 give it a minute to starte 10:23:15 ok 10:23:19 i can lower the bitrate if it doesn't 10:23:42 oh it 10:23:43 stopped 10:23:47 monqy: try now 10:23:55 blak 10:24:04 another ten seconds 10:24:15 blaak 10:24:19 ok fine 10:25:02 it's going 10:25:10 woot 10:25:16 screenshot? 10:25:37 also can you toggle fullscreen ingame 10:25:53 because if so i'll probably do that because of 10:26:01 ~the quality issues~ 10:26:05 *the ~quality 10:26:26 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/takeii.png 10:26:28 @time monqy 10:26:29 Local time for monqy is Fri May 4 03:26:28 2012 10:26:31 s/ $// 10:26:40 wow it's worse somehow 10:26:40 you can togole with escap menu i think 10:26:47 lemme try that 10:27:20 how did that go 10:27:47 it was just like nonfullscreeen except in the upper lefthand corner 10:27:57 no biggening 10:28:00 or anything like that 10:28:09 oh 10:28:13 weird 10:28:17 i'll just leave it unfullscreened then 10:28:17 are you able to like 10:28:18 read the text 10:28:24 some of it 10:28:27 good enough 10:28:34 ok, brb one second and then let's get started 10:28:37 ok 10:28:47 monqy: you're in charge of linking Phantom_Hoover to the stream 10:28:54 oh 10:29:03 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.justin.tv/ehird 10:29:30 all i see is 10:29:30 lag 10:29:39 lots 10:29:40 theres lots of that 10:29:40 of lg 10:29:43 Ｉ　ＡＭ　ＯＮ　ＴＥＬＥＶＩＳＩＯＮ 10:29:43 lag howso 10:29:44 too 10:29:51 ok who's 10:29:51 ready 10:29:52 way 10:29:52 wait 10:29:55 lemme up the font size on this irc 10:29:57 Well I *still* haven't said anything beyond 'oh' in the stream. 10:29:59 Oh wait 10:30:03 Just now I did. 10:30:11 now you can all see stuff 10:30:15 hopefully 10:30:19 not yet 10:30:19 ok is everybody sitting comfortably 10:30:25 it hasn't laagged to this side yet 10:30:29 ok there it goes 10:30:29 what 10:30:31 how laggy is it exactly 10:30:39 pretty laggy 10:30:41 but it's ok 10:30:46 Hello mum! 10:31:04 here we go!!! 10:31:14 monqy: you'll have to remind me of the keys as i go 10:31:39 the keys are pretty simple 10:31:43 What’s that game? 10:31:47 is thi9s crawl 10:31:47 smart kobold 10:31:51 smart kobold 10:31:56 whats music 10:32:01 smart kobold 10:32:29 cant read 10:32:30 words 10:32:33 whAT 10:32:43 monqy: can i eat corpses 10:32:52 i don't think so 10:33:33 i have no clue what the fuck is going on 10:33:40 where's my hp 10:33:47 also you should search a lot but searching is pretty tolerable since it shows you where yous earch and searching is guaranteed to find traps and then the treaps are remove after searching 10:33:51 the blue stuff is your hp 10:33:59 oh 10:34:01 that's 10:34:03 the stupidest hp display i've ever seen 10:34:28 wait 10:34:37 the blue tinkly stuff is hp 10:34:43 yes 10:34:54 help 10:34:58 when you lose hp it turns brown and falls 10:35:03 help 10:35:12 ellitt if you press s multiple times your search radius grows 10:35:15 There’s about 45 seconds of lag. 10:35:19 wtf is this game 10:35:24 smart kobold 10:35:28 monqy: are you responding to all my old searches 10:35:32 this lag is 10:35:33 yes 10:35:35 not tenable 10:35:38 dude smart kobolds make 10:35:38 come on 10:35:39 no sense 10:35:42 i have to tweak the settings 10:35:57 oh shit the bitrate went up!! 10:35:58 look im just going to 10:36:00 lower the fps 10:36:21 will 2fps make it unlaged 10:36:24 i tried 5 10:36:32 actually i'll try 3 10:36:46 How crappy is your upstream bandwidth? 10:36:49 ion: really crappy 10:36:55 like 60 Kio/s max crappy 10:36:58 ok how is it now 10:37:14 god it really doesn't feel like the future over here 10:37:19 monqy: 10:37:21 You’re using H.264, right? 10:37:24 yes but 10:37:27 approx. as crappy? 10:37:31 monqy: seriously? 10:37:31 ugh 10:37:54 well 10:37:59 crappier now that the fps is lower 10:38:05 but no less laggy? 10:38:15 ugh 10:38:16 monqy 10:38:18 look up presets for me 10:38:21 find one crappier than "fast" 10:39:08 they should be in your PREFIX/share/ffmpeg directory 10:39:22 help 10:39:25 which one's crappier 10:39:30 i dont know 10:39:43 you could find your copy of fast and make a copy of it with crappier everywher 10:40:09 let's see if ultrafast is better or worse 10:40:21 how's it 10:40:29 not up yet 10:40:58 monqy: still not up? 10:41:00 What the eff are you doing??? 10:41:05 hi 10:41:07 hi 10:41:15 its "off line": 10:42:05 ok im 10:42:06 trying another thing 10:42:20 oh that made it worse 10:42:20 oh there it goes 10:42:23 "upe" 10:42:25 how laggy now 10:42:29 uhhh 10:42:29 i think probably more 10:42:33 but i can probably fix that 10:42:51 about a while laggy 10:42:54 gr8 10:43:38 this is kind of hopeless 10:43:53 last resort 10:43:55 ive lowered my resolution 10:45:00 ok there is 10:45:05 literally no way the quality can get shittier 10:45:09 if this is laggy 10:45:10 tough 10:45:14 yes there is 10:45:16 its black 10:45:25 it 10:45:26 stopped 10:45:29 rip 10:45:30 let me try that again 10:45:48 oh there it goes 10:46:27 how's it doing 10:46:59 lagged about 30s 10:47:07 rip 10:47:11 i cancelled it 10:47:14 oh fuck it 10:47:19 im putting it back on and playing it deal with it 10:47:27 ok im fine w lag 10:47:49 is it working 10:47:59 are Phantom_Hoover and ion watching 10:48:04 blacke 10:48:04 mo 10:48:06 no 10:48:09 Phantom_Hoover: watch 10:48:15 monqy: still? 10:48:18 Kind of, but i’m about to fall assleap. 10:48:21 it dead 10:48:30 now? try refreshing 10:48:46 ok it goe 10:49:35 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]). 10:50:12 do i really forget parts of the level as i go 10:50:17 no 10:50:19 weird 10:50:20 are you sure 10:50:24 sort of 10:50:31 you "forget" them in a sense but 10:50:38 that sense is that other parts of the level go over them 10:50:42 it's a jefflaitism 10:51:13 so you'll end up forgetting things when you overwrite them 10:51:24 with knowledge of your current z-positioning 10:51:27 er 10:51:27 from 10:51:28 w/e 10:51:29 Remembering the level is available as DLC for just $19.99 10:51:44 oh looks like you died 10:51:54 this game is difficult 10:52:27 are all jeff lait games this difficult 10:52:34 i don't think so 10:52:46 i'm blanking on most of them 10:52:58 sword in hand is pretty difficult but not smart kobold difficult 10:53:05 I've never really tried powder or jacob's matrix 10:53:06 uhhhhhh 10:53:10 blanking on the rest 10:54:34 they're not going to let me chokepoint them are they 10:54:43 they're smart kobold 10:54:44 s 10:54:46 :( 10:55:27 this game is impossible 10:55:28 has anyone won 10:55:34 i don't know 10:55:51 as you may have figured out, smart kobold is less of a game than an experience 10:56:03 or a work of art 10:57:00 i wasn't even killed by smart kobold that time 10:57:04 i was killed by Smart Kobold 10:57:16 that's because you walked through all those traps 10:57:32 but it's so boring to search all the time!!!! 10:57:39 just hit keys faster 10:57:50 also one thing you can do is use m to explore the levl 10:58:04 yeah what does that 10:58:04 do 10:58:04 its nice to see it before you alert all the kobolds 10:58:07 m 10:58:10 i did 10:58:11 and also what they do when you alert them 10:58:13 oh 10:58:23 m and then hjklyubn to look around 10:58:33 do i get to keep the memory 10:58:57 depends on if you went over yourself 10:59:10 i dunno if you get to keep it at all actually 10:59:18 that jefflaitism is 10:59:21 really annoying and confusing 10:59:42 I’ll continue to stream the video through the brain implant while sleeping. Goode nyghte. 10:59:52 i wish i had one of those 10:59:58 ion: rip 11:01:05 Thanks, will do. 11:01:09 monqy: i correct that to "really really annoying and confusing" 11:02:11 I forget if terrified baby kobolds become normal kobolds when they drop their pacifiers or not 11:02:56 im lost 11:03:38 monqy: oh, i see what you mean by z-level 11:03:42 the level actually overlaps 11:03:48 yeah 11:03:55 oops 11:04:09 this game is impossible 11:04:15 quite possibly 11:04:21 I've sure never won iut 11:04:22 it 11:04:24 will i derive any more enjoyment out of 11:04:26 continuing 11:04:30 no clue 11:04:47 strike that "more" actually 11:04:57 no clue 11:05:08 "no clue" - monqy, 2012 11:06:07 i think i give up 11:06:26 ok 11:06:31 creibriadoses 11:06:39 :'[ 11:06:53 your mouth went angular all of a sudden 11:06:59 :'< 11:07:04 help 11:07:09 :'- 11:07:13 ,,, 11:07:21 :' 11:07:25 : 11:08:42 -!- elliott_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:10:45 -!- elliott has joined. 11:11:34 hi 11:14:11 helo 11:15:17 monqy: wow that audio quality was good wasn't it 11:15:31 i 11:15:33 i cant remembr 11:25:04 anyway 11:25:08 smart kobold is an evil game 11:33:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:36:20 @tell monqy Yes, Smart Kobold is winnable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfS6OwitNoM 11:36:20 Consider it noted. 11:45:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:05:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:07:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:34:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:34:19 -!- Patashu has joined. 13:34:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 13:38:05 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:52 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:01:50 -!- esolang_1234 has joined. 15:02:01 `welcome esolang_1234 15:02:05 esolang_1234: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 15:02:36 I know :). I've read the wiki for a while now, but this is the first time on the chat. 15:04:16 -!- esolang_1234 has left. 15:11:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:40:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:15:41 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:31:24 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:38:29 -!- jfischoff has joined. 17:08:28 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 17:08:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:06:19 -!- calamari has joined. 18:12:59 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:13:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:21:24 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:21:48 Hello 18:24:28 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:27 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 18:26:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:28:50 -!- olsner has joined. 18:31:18 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 18:31:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:03:04 It's queit... 19:07:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:08:18 *quiet 19:08:30 Hello zzo38, fungot 19:08:32 Ngevd: has anyone else read srfi-74 yet?) extra-www compliant. you can't rush these kind of limitations would be in the form of regions away from the swarm all the effects 19:08:38 Hello 19:08:44 It's quiet 19:09:46 I wonder how commonly the Show, Bounded, and Enum classes are used in Haskell for the purpose I am using them for in this WizardCard parser program with the BuiltinKeyword datatype. 19:10:01 How are you using them 19:10:40 data BuiltinKeyword = KW_convert | KW_enum | KW_fail | KW_if | KW_macro | KW_section | KW_success deriving (Eq, Bounded, Enum, Show); builtins :: Map String Word32; builtins = M.fromList $ zip (drop 3 . show <$> [minBound..maxBound :: BuiltinKeyword]) [0..]; 19:12:42 Does <$> have a lower precedence than .? 19:12:48 Actually I could probably use fromDistinctAscList since the data is already sorted 19:13:24 zzo38, how busy are you at the moment? 19:13:55 Ngevd: Not much. If you have something to tell to me then please do, regardless of how busy I am; if I cannot do so at the moment I say so. 19:14:23 I was wondering if you could teach me category theory, or at leat introduce me to it 19:14:32 Ngevd: The precedence is correct in that code. It does work. 19:14:35 Or tell me what I need to know first? 19:15:57 Ngevd: There are articles in Wikipedia. But in general: A category consists of a collection of objects, and a collection of morphisms, each morphism having an input and output object, such that there is an identity morphism of each object, and a composition operation which if you have a morphism (f : a -> b) and (g : b -> c) then you can compose them (g . f : a -> c). 19:16:19 Composition is associative and has the identity morphisms of the objects as identity leaving the other side unchanged. 19:16:41 So it is sort of like a monoid except that you need to indicate the object on each side. 19:17:00 Is this good to you so far? 19:17:15 Let it sink in 19:17:47 Can there be multiple morphisms with the same input/output objects? 19:17:52 Ngevd: Yes. 19:17:56 Okay 19:18:39 Okay, I think I know what's going on 19:20:03 A few examples: * The category of sets. Objects are sets, and morphisms are functions having elements of those sets as the inputs and outputs. * Any monoid can be made a category with a single object. * Any category has a dual where the input/output are reversed and composition is reversed. * Any directed graph makes a category, where objects are the nodes and morphisms are the ways to walk from one node to another. 19:23:12 Okay 19:23:21 And then there are functors, monads, and so on 19:24:53 A functor is a way converting objects and morphisms from one category to another. I will use (T x) to represent the object in the new category corresponding to (x) in the old category, and (fmap f) to represent the morphism in the new category corresponding to the morphism (f) in the old category. 19:25:16 A functor must satisfy the laws: fmap id = id and fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f . g) (same as in Haskell). 19:26:47 So that a morphism from (x) to (y) in first category becomes morphism from (T x) to (T y) in second category. It may be the same category in both cases in which case it is called endofunctor. (The Functor class in Haskell is for endofunctors on the (->) category.) 19:27:39 What do you mean by the (->) category? 19:28:10 By the (->) category I mean the main category of Haskell; the category with types as objects and functions as morphisms. (In Haskell, categories can be identified using the type for their morphisms.) 19:28:19 Okay 19:31:22 A monad on some category is an endofunctor on that category with two additional operations eta (or return) and mu (or join), with eta :: (x -> T x) for any object x and mu :: (T (T x) -> T x) for any object x; these must also satisfy certain laws. For example the identity monad; the endofunctor converts all objects and morphisms to themself, and eta and mu are both identity morphisms (this works with any category). 19:32:49 There are also, morphisms which can be inverse of another; if f is inverse of g then f . g = g . f = id (possibly two different identity morphisms if they are different objects). And then, final objects, which means for each object x, there is exactly one morphism from x to the final object. 19:33:25 You can actually do a lot of things with category theory; you may be able to figure out some of these things by yourself, too. 19:34:40 Okay 19:35:57 In addition, the eta/mu operations of a monad are what are called "natural transformations"; Wikipedia has diagrams to explain what a natural transformation is. 19:38:03 I think there may be some other people on here who know a few things about category theory, too. 19:48:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:52:30 oh 19:52:31 dear 19:52:31 is 19:52:33 zzo38, 19:52:35 explaining 19:52:37 monads 19:52:38 to 19:52:41 taneb 19:53:00 oh 19:53:01 dear 19:53:01 is 19:53:03 Phantom_Hoover: 19:53:06 posting 19:53:07 one 19:53:08 word 19:53:10 per 19:53:13 line 19:53:23 Not any more. 19:56:49 Would T (T x) be an an object in a category of categories? 19:57:13 Ngevd: No, T (T x) is an object in the same category as the base category, because T is an endofunctor. 20:00:02 Oh Jesus Christ you *asked* him to do this? 20:00:10 Ngevd, 20:00:14 what exactly 20:00:17 went through your head 20:00:36 Phantom_Hoover, morbid curiosity 20:01:09 And an endofunctor is a transformation from a category to the same category, right/ 20:01:35 Ngevd: Yes 20:02:08 But each object may not end up as the same object? 20:02:19 Ngevd, i mean 20:02:26 i get why you'd want to learn cat theory 20:02:28 but 20:02:31 asking zzo?? 20:02:31 Ngevd: Yes, it might not. 20:03:44 So, mu takes a category that has been transformed twice by the same endofunctor back one transformation? 20:04:46 Ngevd: Perhaps I am not explaining it so well. Ask someone understanding better, or look in Wikipedia. Also notice that these monad laws are the same as Haskell, in case you can understand better that way. 20:05:10 I'm perhaps not listening very well either? 20:05:32 Ngevd: Yes, that too. 20:05:54 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:05:57 Phantom_Hoover, who would you have asked? 20:06:39 Ngevd, probably oerjan, if he's in; otherwise, either Google it, go into #haskell for resources or ask any number of people who aren't zzo. 20:06:54 Il 20:07:09 *I'm about to run out of battery, so I'll go now 20:07:51 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: BATTERY LEVEL). 20:15:04 -!- ais523 has changed nick to about. 20:17:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:22 -!- about has changed nick to ais523. 20:43:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:44:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:44:40 Hello 20:44:46 Do you know what time it is? 20:44:52 IT'S DWARF FORTRESS TIME 20:47:10 I think it crashed 20:47:22 -!- derdon has joined. 20:49:47 Taneb, where stream# 20:52:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:53:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:53:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 20:55:38 @ping 20:55:38 pong 20:55:43 :) 20:55:49 dwarf fortress time for realz? 20:56:15 4 reelz 20:59:32 -!- elliott has joined. 21:07:18 hi 21:07:18 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:07:29 elliott: dwarf fortress time 21:08:22 ill watch later 21:12:02 o 21:26:58 Yay happiness and marriage and love 21:27:23 I'm gonna let them have this party 21:29:05 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:30:50 -!- elliott has joined. 21:33:31 ais523: it's 4 time 21:33:44 what sort of 4? 21:33:48 begat 21:34:06 hmm, uxterm is broken. why is uxterm broken? 21:34:21 so that you could ask 21:34:24 oh, there it goes 21:34:33 * elliott wonders who Kray is 21:34:48 elliott: someone whe haven't seen here before, I expect 21:34:50 hi Kray 21:34:52 `? welcome Kray 21:34:55 `WELCOME KRAY 21:34:55 welcome Kray? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:34:59 KRAY: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE 21:35:02 has a Finnish name 21:35:05 `?welcome Kray 21:35:07 `welcome Kray 21:35:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found 21:35:08 there we go 21:35:10 Kray: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 21:35:19 I find these bots highly annoying 21:35:27 ^rainbow Great! 21:35:27 Great! 21:35:28 ^celebrate 21:35:28 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 21:35:29 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 21:35:29 /< >\ |\ | /| >\ >\ | /< /´\ /< 21:35:29 /'\ (_|¯'¯|_) 21:35:29 (_| |_) 21:35:44 `quote 21:35:47 758) Yes, it is true; I don't really like PHP either. 21:35:49 Kray: Feel free to make them less annoying, I'm sure they'll accept patches for fungot 21:35:49 Lumpio-: are you making it with was just goddamn crappy browser. :p fnord/ fnord, but that 21:35:52 ^source 21:35:52 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 21:35:54 There 21:36:00 Get hacking 21:36:15 ^RAINBOW DASH 21:36:21 Darn, it's case sensitive 21:36:27 ^rainbow RAINBOW DASH 21:36:28 RAINBOW DASH 21:36:35 It's not really a rainbow. 21:36:42 Indeed. 21:36:59 `@ Kray ? esoteric 21:37:00 `@ Kray ? finland 21:37:02 Kray: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 21:37:06 We need more wisdom entries to spam newbies with. 21:37:09 We don't have enough. :( 21:37:16 Kray: Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 21:37:17 `@ Kray ? Ngevd 21:37:19 Kray: Qiqj.uTp!1:42rz>G.isYy&.b.`..epgJ.*0"AA.$IlT.a@.jJoF.ۋL..cf.Քm!Yu!@9%4`p$׉6Kʋ.q)..R=tTm8N;.|\..,SORa!.v.3'.x.Ou>.Zl.'%JO6KE`ϔ..3(9}.j.3(+__֦.G]..%j]Db&.;Yb].!.|Ny2=VvcůakI.C].$h.>U.GHU?O\)[v+b?.G;#Lx C.`7cCѢ$ \ }'6E.ea|. 21:37:25 elliott: it's possible they're here for talking about esolangs 21:37:27 rather than messing with bots 21:37:37 ais523: Well, then they're in the wrong place! 21:37:44 no they aren't 21:37:51 lol 21:37:51 Pffffft 21:37:58 You must be new. 21:46:32 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:48:40 Well, goodnight 21:48:48 bye :) 21:49:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: SLEEP). 21:57:41 @dave4420 when u copy and paste from notepad++ it turns commas to semi. – Mike 9 hours ago 21:57:41 Unknown command, try @list 21:58:16 semicommas! 21:59:32 By the way, my question appeared after reading this tutorial haskell.org/haskellwiki/IO_inside and this paper webcache.googleusercontent.com/…) – user1374768 8 hours ago 21:59:32 21:59:32 21:59:33 An IO type defined as RealWorld->(a,RealWorld) is used here, so an action sequence is realized using the fake parameter RealWorld. But IMHO this model is impossible in pure language without outer compiler hacks. So I wonder why this implementation is used, hope that pdf has more clearly explanation. – user1374768 8 hours ago 21:59:43 OK, http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/IO_inside should be deleted 22:00:09 it's a whole page devoted to the State RealWorld "model" 22:00:42 why don't you like that ""model""? 22:01:02 ais523: because it's false, misleading, and not a model 22:01:10 and many people believe it anyway 22:01:14 ah, OK 22:01:19 (backed up by the fact that GHC *looks* like it uses it) 22:01:25 there's actually a RealWorld type in GHC, isn't there? 22:01:30 now I'm sort-of wondering what it represents 22:01:35 it's State# RealWorld but it doesn't actually exist 22:01:36 basically 22:01:37 it uses 22:01:48 State# RealWorld -> (# a, State# RealWorld #) 22:01:52 where (##) is an unboxed tuple 22:01:58 but the thing is that that function arrow (->) is an *impure* function arrow 22:02:10 and State# RealWorld is a 0-bit type, only used to keep the optimiser from reordering IO actions 22:02:10 -># 22:02:18 (because there's a data dependency on every previous result) 22:02:29 ais523: right :) 22:03:00 I think I accept your explanation; it's sort-of State RealWorld except that it's not a Haskell State monad, but a State monad from some other language 22:03:10 yes, but that's not even what the model is 22:03:12 the model is that 22:03:21 putStrLn :: String -> World -> ((), World) 22:03:33 putStrLn s world = ((), modify_the_world_to_have_just_printed_s_on_your_screen world) 22:03:42 which is beyond absurd 22:03:54 it'd work for noninteractive IO 22:03:59 but noninteractive IO is kind-of silly 22:04:00 and, even if you accept that this works (it... doesn't), you can't do concurrency properly with it 22:04:07 ais523: no, you extract the input from the world 22:04:23 elliott: agreed, but I mean all-input-at-start-all-output-at-end IO 22:04:29 Why is the latest Freeman's Mind not available in HD yet >_< 22:04:34 it "does" interactive IO too 22:04:38 by "does" I mean doesn't do 22:04:39 I'm going nutty waiting for YouTube to fix the quality. 22:04:42 anyway, it's not actually a model 22:04:48 because it does not give any denotational semantics whatsoever or anything 22:04:53 it's just mysticism :P 22:06:12 ais523: oh yeah, the biggest problem with the model 22:06:16 is that it doesn't stop you duplicating World values 22:06:19 or using past World values 22:06:27 you need to enforce the linearity of Worlds (which is done in languages like Mercury) 22:06:32 Haskell does not have linear types 22:06:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:37 elliott: that's what the monad is for, isn't it? 22:06:58 hmm, this is the point where I realise I thought you understood but you didn't 22:07:01 btw, nonlinearity is a monad too, there was a seminar on that on Tuesday 22:07:05 elliott: I wasn't being serious 22:07:08 obviously if you treat IO as an abstract black box it works 22:07:12 sorry about that, I was trying to be a bit facetious 22:07:13 the whole point is that we're trying to /explain/ IO 22:07:17 yes 22:07:21 which means we have to give it a model, which we aren't allowed to hide things about or restrict 22:07:22 ais523: ok :p 22:07:39 sorry, Poe's Law is bad enough without me trying to make it worse 22:10:08 coppro: democrat! 22:14:46 ais523: btw, I upgraded Esolang; you probably saw 22:15:42 nah, I rarely read it in a web browser 22:15:44 * ais523 look 22:15:45 *looks 22:15:55 ais523: I posted on the community portal about it 22:15:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:17:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:28:02 "Hatfield is a city in Pipestone County, Minnesota, United States. The population was 54 at the 2010 census.[1]" 22:31:15 yay you're back to arguing about how to explain Haskell IO 22:31:16 i missed this 22:31:27 kmc: There wasn't an argument! 22:31:39 I quoted someone mislead by it because of a terrible page on the HaskellWiki and expressed sadness that the page exists. 22:31:52 Then ais523 asked me what was wrong with State RealWorld because he didn't know. 22:33:22 you should fix the haskellwiki 22:34:05 kmc: I can't delete pages on it. :( 22:34:08 haha 22:34:15 you could replace it with the empty string 22:34:21 I think it'd get reverted. 22:34:21 or a link to a better explanation 22:34:51 People tend to be overprotective about not deleting content on wikis, even if it's fundamentally wrong, and proven to mislead. 22:35:34 ok 22:35:38 so this will just remain shitty, forever 22:35:42 Yep! 22:35:45 Like http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad. 22:36:20 the haskell community is too nice to ever figure out how to teach the language properly 22:36:57 * elliott would revert that page to its pre-"improvement" state (http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/index.php?title=Monad&oldid=33391) but expects that would get reverted too. 22:39:15 I do think they should delete things if they are entirely wrong, but I also think that pure wiki deletion should be used. 22:39:50 (Meaning the text that used to be on the page becomes not hidden) 22:44:32 -!- absentswett has changed nick to tswett. 22:45:55 elliott: ? 22:46:02 coppro: voting for Murphy :P 22:46:14 You and your quaint separation of powers. 22:47:35 ah 22:47:41 elliott: it's a rule, isn't it? 22:47:50 I don't think so? 22:48:20 it was at one point 22:48:33 We don't need rules like that. 22:48:35 Just efficiency. 22:48:48 * elliott thinks democracy has failed Agora. 22:48:56 aha 22:48:57 Bring on the Promotor-Assessors and voting golems. 22:50:28 Maybe I should add in the (>>=||) (>>=|||) (>>=|\/) (>>=\/) for if the function on right takes many parameters and the monad on left is the inside being a tuple with that many parts (I have to use "made up" roman numerals since you cannot use digits here) 22:50:49 elliott: I suggest that the Bakor keep the Roll of golems 22:51:46 I am back. 22:51:51 I will assume that nothing important happened while I was away. 22:53:51 probably Haskell needs some knowledgable person to not only provide a coherent explanation of everything, but directly attack the shitty explanations 22:54:23 kmc: The problem is that you would need different explanations for different purposes too 22:54:46 -!- nortti_ has joined. 22:56:26 it just feels so good to be here using a real client (even though that client is a piece of shit) 22:57:30 will try to get this SASL bullshit working on irssi 22:57:39 nortti_: Then use a different client if that one is no good 22:57:42 There are many 22:58:24 zzo38: this is the only one that supoorts sasl and doesn't want to spy on me on android 23:00:44 If you know how, you could modify any existing one with open-source to support SASL, I would guess 23:01:18 zzo38: I don't have android dev tools 23:01:55 and I don't think it would run on my computer 23:03:20 (This phone has better performace than my computer) 23:06:13 -!- jfischoff_ has joined. 23:08:00 And this client is at least better that webchat.freenode 23:08:07 +.net 23:08:59 -!- jfischoff has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:09:00 -!- jfischoff_ has changed nick to jfischoff. 23:11:05 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 23:27:52 -!- jfischoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:17 -!- jfischoff has joined. 23:34:51 -!- augur has joined. 23:47:46 this question is 23:47:46 amazing 23:48:11 what question 23:48:17 let me save a copy 23:48:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:14 I am writing a lisp interpreter on lambdastack 23:49:21 -!- augur has joined. 23:52:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:54:34 http://ompldr.org/vZG1rbg/stackoverflow.com-q-10029651.html 23:56:36 -!- augur has joined. 23:57:11 Heh, Raymond Chen commented on it. 23:57:21 (Click the "comments" links on the sides.) 23:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:59:41 I'm surprised there is a cloud suggestion but no GPU suggestion. 2012-05-05: 00:00:44 Don't be silly. GPUs just don't have the kind of elastic scaling you need to enumerate every GUID. 00:02:02 facepalm, how could I forget about elastic scaling? 00:02:53 If you have one of the 50 fastest computers in the world, then you can make the subatomic strings themselves elastic. 00:03:00 I have added a new version of "prelude-generalize" Haskell package with (>>=||), (>>=|||), (>>=|\/), (>>=\/), azero, aplus, unnull. 00:03:04 So you could have it done by next Tuesday. 00:03:38 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:04:16 but only if that is the way google does it 00:04:34 Oblig. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo 00:04:43 There is no Checkout compiler as far as I know. 00:07:56 elliot: nice. Just learned that I'm a munctional programmer. 00:13:17 -!- augur has joined. 00:15:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:58 Patashu: 00:15:59 You finish putting on the +2 pair of gloves of the Republic {rPois Str+3 00:15:59 Dam+6}. 00:16:07 not bad 00:16:08 Do these offset the loss of my unarmed combat bonus, being a ghoul? 00:16:15 (I don't need the rPois, obviously.) 00:18:06 Patashu: Better question: What exactly is the bonus? 00:18:15 the dam bonus? 00:18:21 Oh, jeanjacques just told me :P 00:19:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:22 OK, time to choose myself a god. 00:19:32 I guess it's Makhleb or Ashenzari again (comedy option: chei). 00:20:19 Patashu: You were advocating sticking with Ashey, right? 00:21:54 well 00:21:59 if you're going to go ash, bind yourself fully 00:22:03 if you don't feel like it go makhleb 00:22:48 I'll go with Makhleb. I feel like I'll like Ashenzari more when I'm older and wiser and less violent. :p 00:22:59 But, you know, HP on killing! 00:24:45 Patashu: Did you say I could hear a buckler too? 00:25:04 *wear 00:25:06 always wear a buckler unless you're using a ranged weapon or 1.5-2 handed weapon 00:25:15 Yikes, EV 4. 00:25:16 *EV 5 00:26:01 I guess I'll switch back and train armour. 00:28:00 elliott: http://dpaste.com/hold/743008/ poly.hs is unmodifed the entire time 00:28:26 variable: hahaha, that "file" output is amazing 00:28:32 well done 00:28:38 why .hs? 00:28:45 I was testing ghc 00:28:58 but its literate haskel 00:29:16 You need to set the extension to .lhs to use literate Haskell 00:29:42 zzo38: poly.lhc: file not recognized: File format not recognized 00:29:55 variable: That is because you put .lhc by mistake 00:29:57 erm 00:29:58 oops 00:30:01 You need .lhs 00:30:18 [9656 eitan@radar ~/poly ]%./poly 00:30:18 I'm a Literate Haskell program. 00:30:55 pfft, literate haskell is cheating ;) 00:31:34 elliott: I know 00:31:42 Patashu: _Level annotation: magistern's ghost, experienced HOEE 00:31:42 :( 00:31:49 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 00:33:40 oh god, it gets worse 00:33:44 there are... 00:33:46 BUTTERFLIES 00:33:59 ! 00:34:13 ！ 00:34:26 elliott: fuck 00:34:31 I just had to climb through the most awful arena level anyway 00:34:33 *ever 00:34:35 after getting shafted 00:34:42 ion: Should I be really scared of that ghost? :( 00:34:47 it was full of: orc priests. orc wizards. a hydra. a two-headed ogre. a kobold with a wand of fire. 00:34:48 etc 00:34:56 -!- augur has joined. 00:34:59 hmm 00:35:02 20 hp that's not so bad 00:35:05 elliott: Dunno, i wasn’t paying much attention. 00:35:08 oh xl 2 00:35:08 and I tried using corrupt but it was shit 00:35:11 why is it "experienced" then 00:35:35 ion: ahaaha look at my game 00:35:39 these butterflies are confusing 00:35:43 the ghost's hiding amongst them 00:35:47 heh 00:36:55 oops 00:37:06 wonder if i can get to that upstairs 00:37:06 poops 00:37:08 or read fear 00:37:43 lol 00:37:47 Two orc priests? Nice. 00:37:48 fear worked on everyone but the things i care about 00:38:21 this is one of those situations where i should have read teleportation a year ago 00:39:29 ion: help :( 00:39:35 i know, i know, i'm dead 00:39:42 You have to go to the leftstairs and then destroy the human priest of the International Church of Evil and then activate the blue clock and as soon as it reaches 42, you have to immediately teleport into hyperspace. 00:40:10 If you don't do it *exactly* then you will lose. 00:40:34 -!- tzxn3_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:41:08 And even if you do it exactly correctly, then you still have a 50% chance to lose anyways. 00:41:18 And a 25% chance to draw and 25% chance to win. 00:41:34 elliott: What would NihilistDandy do? 00:41:48 ion: have more hp 00:41:58 No, he wouldn’t, but he’d still make it. :-P 00:42:00 And never begin a sentence with "and". 00:42:05 how am i still alive 00:42:16 wow 00:42:18 just like that 00:42:19 their weapons just 00:42:24 turned to rubber for the past 10 turns 00:43:57 oh 00:43:59 are deep elf soldiers scary 00:44:07 01:44 deep elf soldier (e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high (items) | HD: 3 | HP: 9-18 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 6 | Fl: spellcaster | Res: magic(24) | Chunks: contam | XP: 33 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility. 00:44:08 no 00:44:21 elliott: Do they have a weapon? If so, then you should escape. 00:44:47 ion: OK 00:46:04 http://i.imgur.com/jfmoY.jpg 00:46:38 looks like spaghetti 00:48:25 What is it with this vault? 00:49:09 -!- monqy has joined. 00:50:09 monqy: did you know java is interpreted and not optimised 00:50:56 oh no are you getting into a dumb argument in ##crawl 00:52:10 i dont even want to know how this happned 00:52:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:52:35 im exiting the dumb argument in ##crawl 00:52:42 me ---> the argument's exit 00:52:49 is kyrris dumb or something 00:52:57 im just asking because 01:51 this is your first time talking to kyrris isn't it 00:54:15 If all of the deep elf soldiers have the same spells and equipment then it makes it easy they should mix it up a bit to confuse you too 00:54:53 yake 00:54:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 00:54:59 hi oerjan bye oerjan 00:55:56 rip 00:56:10 monqy: how did your conflagration go 00:56:47 what conflagration now 00:56:52 the 00:56:54 colours 00:56:55 and stuff 00:57:14 ?? 00:57:30 square 00:57:31 lose 00:57:37 oh 00:57:45 which part 00:57:49 i 00:57:50 don't know 00:58:44 :'( 00:58:46 :( 00:59:12 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:42 -!- Guest26299 has joined. 01:01:43 help 01:01:50 how 01:01:53 :( 01:01:57 im not elliott 01:02:09 D: 01:02:15 maybe you should start being elliott 01:02:49 its not possible 01:03:02 02:02 Error(437): elliott Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable 01:05:02 wh 01:05:03 why 01:05:10 because i 01:05:12 failed to identify myself 01:05:22 great 01:05:29 im all alone in my sadness 01:06:26 Guest26299: Release 01:06:28 Guest26299: /nickserv release 01:06:33 Gregor: i know 01:06:35 i know 01:06:35 but 01:06:36 will it cure 01:06:38 my sadness 01:06:48 i dont think i can do it Gregor can you release it for me 01:07:18 So Amazon incorrectly gave me the wrong MP3. What I have labeled "Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - 77 - The Snow Maiden (Snegurochka): Aria.mp3" is in fact some awesome upbeat jazz with vibraphone solos. 01:07:20 Guest26299: Sure, just tell me your password. 01:07:22 release me 01:07:32 "what is it you want us to do?" "die..." 01:07:45 Gregor: its a little known fact that chykovskee actually loved jazz 01:07:46 unz unz unz unz unz unz unz unz 01:07:56 kmc: Arrrgh I remember that line but can't place it ... Star Trek or Stargate ... 01:07:57 *chykofskee 01:08:07 Gregor: Independence Day, as sampled by Infected Mushroom 01:08:29 im upset that Gregor isnt taking issue with my spelling of chykofskee 01:10:05 What the hell do I care about transliterations of Cyrillic names? 01:10:25 no i was 01:10:30 trying to misspell it terribly and phonetically 01:10:38 Damn it, it's even TAGGED as Tchaikovsky, I can't figure out who it is :'( 01:10:38 its just that even the pronunciation is too exotic and complicated to admit that :( 01:10:52 Gregor: feed it into musicbrainz picard 01:10:58 with the audio id stuff 01:11:07 -!- jfischoff has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:12:52 Guest26299: Wow, that's pulling in a lot of deps :( 01:13:05 Gregor: There are other clients, I think. Dunno if any of them do the fingerprinting stuff. 01:13:17 There are various phone apps and the like that try and do the same thing. 01:13:23 libqt4-opengl // So glad this program needs OpenGL ... uhh, maybe Debian's 'picard' package isn't what I want X-D 01:13:28 But I think Picard will have a good chance of getting it, it's just a matter of how complete their database is. 01:13:35 Gregor: It uses Qt. 01:13:39 So it's probably just pulling in all the Qt stuff. 01:13:41 I have programs that use Qt. 01:13:45 I have Rosegarden. 01:13:51 It'll be some indirect dependency, probably :P 01:14:23 http://codu.org/tmp/Pyotr%20Ilyich%20Tchaikovsky%20-%2077%20-%20The%20Snow%20Maiden%20%28Snegurochka%29:%20Aria.mp3 <-- listen to Tchaikovsky's lovely aria for vibraphone. 01:15:39 You could also contact Amazon about it to ask. 01:16:14 Gregor: help, i'm bobbing uncontrollably listening to this 01:17:10 Gregor: wow i SERIOUSLY underestimated tchaikovsky 01:17:50 X-D 01:19:00 Picard is giving me a bullshit response, it thinks it's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvDkIR-OyYI 01:19:20 Gregor: Are you sure you used the fingerprinting stuff? 01:19:34 No 01:19:35 It can identify tracks by tags and length, or fingerprints or something and obviously only the latter are meaningful here. 01:19:41 Check the manual, it's vaguely helpful :P 01:19:42 I have no idea how to do that, this UI sucks. 01:19:45 It does. 01:20:35 Aha, I see, I had clicked 'scan' and it did nothing, so I tried something out. 01:20:39 It did nothing because it couldn't match it :( 01:20:47 :( 01:20:53 What was the name of that other thing that does it... Shazam or something. 01:24:19 Can they include formats other than MP3 or does it have only MP3 format? 01:24:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:24:39 Gregor: You could post it on /r/TOMT or something. 01:25:25 -!- augur has joined. 01:28:36 Internet Quiz Engine is not Turing-complete since all programs will halt; it has no loops. It does have conditions, but they cannot be nested. However, write some quiz file. Perhaps, try to write a quiz file which will attempt to guess which of people on this channel you are, without asking the questions which are direct enough to answer it. (Assuming that everyone in this channel, and nobody else, can try to answer, and answer truthfully) 01:29:33 (The answers which users select are not logged anywhere; they are only passed in the selector string in order to perform calculations on them and send the result to the client. If you still don't like it, you can download and run the program locally.) 01:29:55 monqy: oops 01:30:09 -!- Guest26299 has changed nick to elliott. 01:30:10 (However, there currently is no local mode. Write one if you want; I may also do so later on) 01:30:11 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 01:30:11 -!- elliott has joined. 01:31:33 wow ok 01:31:40 turns out jessica is powerless even at xl 3 and 19 hp 01:31:59 jessica is usually a wimp 01:33:00 oh no i misread cheibriados as creibriados help 01:33:11 that's its real name!!! 01:33:35 monqy: WHAT A COINCIDENCE 01:34:04 (this coincidence only makes sense if you're watching my game) 01:34:12 hit p 01:34:34 done 01:34:37 hit Y 01:34:42 no 01:34:43 and then Y again 01:34:53 i did 2/3 instructions 01:34:57 :( 01:35:34 does chei really boost all your stats by 15 levels or am i misunderstanding it 01:36:10 stats are str/int/dex 01:36:15 ah 01:36:24 that's still a bit overly high isn't it 01:36:25 if you want skill boosts go ashe 01:36:35 ashe boosts skill? 01:36:36 *skills 01:36:38 yes 01:36:40 oh right 01:36:40 not 01:36:41 stats 01:36:44 i got confuse 01:36:52 i went with makhleb last game because 01:37:01 im too young and violent for ashey 01:37:39 xom's altars are great 01:37:56 you could worship xom! ! 01:38:23 it's true! it's theoretically possible for me to worship xom this gam 01:38:24 *game 01:38:32 monqy: does the ** starting piety apply to xom's interest level thing 01:38:37 dunno 01:38:50 whoah 01:38:51 rude 01:39:06 you have to know a spelle 01:39:17 no sif muna is totally stuck up 01:39:20 im going to blow up that altar later remind me 01:40:43 hi, sigmund 01:40:54 You are wearing: f - a ring of see invisible (left claw) 01:40:56 yaey 01:41:34 ion is right 01:41:41 i should add "hits you from afar" to that list 01:42:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:56 oops 01:44:10 i wasn't looking what happened 01:44:49 centaur occurred 01:45:09 have blinke? 01:45:20 oh 01:45:21 so i do!! 01:45:31 hmmmmm 01:45:32 not much 01:45:34 cover to speak of 01:45:39 maybe blink over the ant? 01:45:44 idk 01:45:49 like here 01:45:50 ? 01:45:56 it may or may not protect you 01:45:59 i think i'd probably die dipping around the corner 01:46:00 as it moves 01:46:13 could happen! 01:46:42 no don't fight 01:46:46 wait i had heal wounds 01:46:50 :( 01:46:55 * elliott bad at crawl 01:48:02 time to try again!!! 01:49:16 cap,e 01:49:50 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:50:12 im cap 01:50:16 yaey 01:50:30 i should enchant it to +2 01:50:57 most body slot armoures go to +2 01:51:05 and also cloaks 01:51:31 the only exception I can think of is bardings, which are internally represented as boots 01:51:42 oh righ tand somme body slot armours give more base ac than others 01:51:49 like caps give +0 whereas helmets give +1 01:51:59 more like: boreding 01:52:03 wait caps dont give me any ac??? 01:52:06 but a +0 cap is better than nothing because it gives a bit of acid protection 01:52:09 im wearing th ok 01:52:28 enchanted robe 01:52:32 "should have chosen cap" 01:52:47 you'll probably be replacing both 01:52:56 im going to stick with the cap for the rest of the game 01:52:57 robe for heaver armoures and cap for hemlet 01:53:01 oh 01:53:06 im probably not 01:53:08 unless itll be 01:53:08 what if you find a cool artefact cap!! 01:53:09 really funny 01:53:13 ok that's fine 01:53:17 but not hemlet!! 01:53:27 dyrovepreva is a cap i think 01:53:35 and hat of the alchemist is megagood cap 01:53:59 whats visored 01:54:01 i mean 01:54:04 i know what visored means 01:54:08 what does it mean for thegame 01:54:10 *the game 01:54:16 i think it means you can't wear it with a beak? 01:54:29 so no tengu :'[ 01:55:11 ":(" --tengu 01:55:41 oh no the helmet gives me one more ac 01:55:45 yes 01:55:48 does hte helmet give me acid resistance 01:56:33 (say no) 01:57:22 all you need is the slot covered with something for the acid protection 01:57:28 so yeah the helmet works for head slot 01:57:46 ill 01:57:51 keep the cap around for sentimental reasons 01:57:56 but use the helmet 02:01:02 hi 02:01:27 creis 02:01:47 wow that was lucky 02:08:25 monqy: good self self portrait 02:08:36 thanks shachaf 02:09:19 I need to start keeping track of all these self-portraits. 02:09:24 Otherwise I'll lose them. 02:10:35 wow i can afford that cursed ring of hunger 02:11:06 monqy: when is the self portraite of kmc coming out 02:11:19 whenever i figure out what to draw on it 02:11:45 i.e. whenever i see the true nature of kmc's self 02:12:11 maybe i'll go on a discovery adventure journey tonight to discover it through the power of adventure and journey 02:12:28 go into your cave and find your power animal 02:13:02 monqy: kmc doesn't have a self 02:13:06 kmc: have you ever had a self portrait drawn of you 02:13:24 no 02:13:45 wonqy: poor kmc 02:14:19 monqy: is your true self a pear 02:14:29 oh no it's this vault 02:14:36 shachaf: yes 02:14:59 monqy: is your false self a moth 02:15:09 yes 02:15:31 monqy: are you going to answer no to this question 02:15:41 D: 02:15:56 monqy help it's this vault 02:15:58 i dont like gnolle 02:16:19 wait i have no ranged attacks whatsoever 02:17:34 maybe i should just 02:17:35 skip this level 02:19:11 GNOOOLLE!!! 02:19:25 oh no i was looking away 02:19:39 why is it always when im not watching that you get in trouble 02:19:45 because 02:19:46 its 02:19:47 physics 02:19:57 those four doors open up to a scary vault right 02:20:13 if you trrey opening them you'll rpobably gnolldie a gnolldeath 02:20:32 help 02:21:40 monqy: :'( 02:21:49 hav bliink? 02:21:57 nope 02:22:36 feare might work unless there's still that buge 02:22:46 might be your best bet anyway 02:23:10 im safe 02:23:10 that's probably yiufe vaulte 02:23:14 oops 02:23:40 hi yiuf 02:23:53 snower arm orb guardian 02:25:11 i forget how bad ev 6 is 02:25:20 me too 02:26:17 "oops" - me, too 02:27:34 gr8 02:29:18 hi 02:29:30 run up the staires maybe 02:29:57 yeah i'll just 02:29:58 "dance" 02:31:33 what a weird map 02:33:10 oh no i hate merfolk 02:35:35 oh man 02:35:38 goliath beetle + crimson imp party 02:36:35 more like giant arghball ha ha ha 02:37:30 -!- augur has joined. 02:37:47 oh yeah 02:37:49 i should train invocations right 02:38:31 ye 02:38:58 you'll want decent invo for greater servant 02:39:23 i forget the sucese calculatioens 02:39:29 where by suces i mean 02:39:38 hostile chance 02:39:55 maybe ill turn off combat and turn on armour and invocations i dont know theres so much ~conflicting advice~ about skills i see on ##crawl 02:40:09 i don't really see how anyone manages training only one skill at a time long-term 02:40:19 ##crawl is bad at agreeing with itself 02:40:27 i train multiple skills at a time 02:40:30 yeah i take what i read there with 02:40:32 "a grain of salt" 02:40:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:52 btw 02:40:55 why does autopickup turn off on invis 02:40:58 the training one skill at a time craze is from when skills were in descrete levels rather than continuouse 02:40:59 I trust everything said on this channel. 02:41:02 to avoid picking up when fighting? 02:41:05 yeah 02:41:10 right 02:41:13 that's annoying 02:41:16 (i won't turn it off though) 02:41:27 i hate jellies 02:41:34 yes 02:41:43 too bad i'm too shitty at minor destruction to take them down from a disatnce 02:41:59 Someone really should make a status line item out of autopickup being off. Perhaps i’ll get around to making that patch some day. 02:42:17 put it in the same place and colour as (Hit _) so nobody notices it 02:42:27 ion: nethack or crawl? 02:42:29 Crawl 02:43:44 hi, giant spore 02:43:45 monqy: is there a 02:43:47 giant spore strategy 02:43:51 i mostly just let them explode on me 02:44:09 hit them with ranged like darts or minor destruction to explod them from afar 02:44:18 they don't matter so much as undead since then they dont confuse you 02:44:26 hey, at least the ogre died 02:44:56 Yeah, just throw something at them or blast them with something. 02:45:35 might switch to splint soon 02:45:59 vehumet is weird 02:46:13 haha i read that as 02:46:19 4 scrolls of sky frog flesh 02:46:57 oh boy!!! 02:47:01 monqy 02:47:05 oh boy 02:47:08 i don't think i'm going to be able to worship chei this game 02:47:20 spider form for clinging 02:47:24 jokes your'e a ghoule 02:48:09 I once found a scroll named MNOSOI SHIT. 02:48:30 hmm i should enchant something 02:48:30 shachaf: did you know that MIT's Kerberos realm uses single DES? 02:48:35 there's a huge learndb entry with things like that 02:48:37 it's awful 02:48:50 Yeah, fuc da sac or something like that. 02:49:03 Awfully hilarious, you mean. 02:49:29 Err. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html seems blank. 02:49:52 it forgot everything 02:50:37 i really need to learn how to chokepoint 02:51:35 monqy: kikubaaqudgha sounds hardcore -- oh i suddenly realise that that's kiku 02:51:44 kikubaaqudgha is necromancy god 02:52:00 necromancy magic, that is 02:52:08 contrast with yredelemnul, undead friends god 02:52:40 lesser servant you're not helping!! 02:52:54 you have to hold the troll in place 02:53:00 dancing around it and getting yourself hit won't help 02:53:04 yeah oops 02:53:48 no fair!!! 02:53:56 what happened 02:54:01 i was looking away 02:54:04 and suddenly you dead 02:54:07 prince ribbit happened 02:54:19 ribbit is dangerous 02:54:45 but he' syelloe!!!! 02:55:00 don;t trust the mlist, seriously 02:58:52 i know, i know 02:59:09 i just thought my "memories of scare" were from when i was 02:59:10 weaker 03:04:57 Somewhat in here in before, I was asking something about some partial ordering (relating to multimanas in Icosahedral RPG). But we have, X is less than or equal to X, and if X less than or equal to Y and also Y less than or equal to Z, then X is also less than or equal to Z. But it looks like these two rules make a category; the first one is identity morphisms and the second one is composition of morphisms. 03:32:05 -!- Kray has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:32:58 -!- Kray has joined. 03:55:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:04:05 Can we make up the Crawl variant with the following options which can be turn on/off before the game starts: * Do not restrict race/class combination * Disable artifacts * Disallow revisiting dungeon levels unless you are at a dead end * Disable religion * All items are created cursed * All NPCs explode when killed * Disable permanent food * Hit points refilled upon entering new dungeon level 04:07:05 * Hit points do not recover over time * Power points refilled upon entering new dungeon level * Power points do not recover over time * PC's experience level never increases * Skill levels never increase * Permanent map * Use "Twonky"-style display * Adjust NPC stats * No diagonal moves * All NPCs have a tracking device to track the PC * All NPCs know PC's weaknesses 04:09:17 * Creatures cannot be identified * Player is penalized for standing still 04:11:33 zzo38: Feel free to. 04:11:48 * PC cannot step in the same tile more than once 04:12:44 ion: Do you like this? Do you hate this? 04:13:50 Mostly hate. :-) 04:13:58 But that doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t love it. 04:14:10 hi 04:14:15 hi 04:14:51 zzo38: * bad * bad * bad * terrible * awful * terrible * probably good * terrible * good * what are power points 04:16:10 what is even twonky 04:17:52 Twonky is an old computer game, played on a grid of tiles, each of which can be floor, teleporter, or wall; two of them are marked special as the goal square and a square which causes the game to end in a draw if touched. There is also the Twonky which moves toward you each turn and you lose if its distance to you is less than 2. 04:18:37 You cannot see any of the tiles; but you are told the distance from your location to Twonky and distance from your location to the goal square. You can also shoot. You are told if you land on a teleporter, or bump into a wall or the edge of the grid. 04:18:48 (The distances are Euclidean distances) 04:19:52 elliott: Maybe this game doesn't call them power points; maybe they are called magic points or spell points; or does it use Vancian casting? 04:20:02 It has MP, yes. 04:20:10 Have you even played Crawl? 04:20:12 elliott: Then that is what I mean. 04:20:32 And, yes, I have played Crawl a while ago but I forget a lot of it. I have played it both on the computer and on the Nintendo DS. 04:20:53 Hmm, Crawl is available for the DS? 04:21:14 I seem to recall it is, but I may be wrong. 04:21:35 I bet it uses tiles. :( 04:22:46 Actually it does use ASCII text for most (but not all) things (I don't know why). 04:22:55 I’d *love* tiles with the tiles being simply renditions of the same Unicode characters with the same colors the terminal version uses. The benefit would be that the tiles are square and the minimap can work. 04:23:42 s/tiles/a tiles version/ 04:23:48 I don't even hate tiles, inherently; there's no reason a roguelike should be constrained to the terminal grid as it is. I just have every tileset I've seen. 04:24:14 They disregard the most important part of a roguelike: the highly stylised, minimalistic, symbolic line-art aesthetic that derives from the technological restrictions. 04:24:27 The same characters but perfectly square would be just perfect for me. 04:24:30 The Geoduck tilesets are probably the closest to getting it right... but unfortunately they're pretty hideous. 04:24:43 ion: Yes they are square; I remember that. 04:24:43 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:33 -!- elliott has joined. 04:25:39 05:23 I don't even hate tiles, inherently; there's no reason a roguelike should be constrained to the terminal grid as it is. I just have every tileset I've seen. 04:25:39 05:24 They disregard the most important part of a roguelike: the highly stylised, minimalistic, symbolic line-art aesthetic that derives from the technological restrictions. 04:25:39 05:24 The same characters but perfectly square would be just perfect for me. 04:25:41 05:24 The Geoduck tilesets are probably the closest to getting it right... but unfortunately they're pretty hideous. 04:25:43 05:24 ion: I think you'd find just making them square might leave a bit too much horizontal space to be aesthetically pleasing. 04:26:46 Just scaling the glyphs without respecting the original aspect ratio works. 04:27:00 (I’ve tried that with PuTTY which supports that.) 04:27:09 Ew. 04:27:31 That would do horrible things to the glyphs. 04:27:59 ion: By the way, what's your definition of "roguelike"? 04:28:18 roguelike, a. 1. like Rogue 04:28:30 I knew you would do that. 04:28:35 Now do it again without using the word "Rogue"> 04:28:36 *. 04:29:44 Turn-based, random world, … 04:30:14 The "..." is the cheating part : 04:30:15 :p 04:30:54 Mine is something like "A turn-based role-playing game that takes place in a mostly-randomised grid world." 04:31:02 That doesn't quite capture the you-vs-everything-else aspect, though. 04:31:35 you vs everything else is common but not really something that makes a roguelike a roguelike imo 04:32:31 monqy: Yeah, fair enough. I was just thinking that e.g. giving Pokemon a randomised world and making it turn-based wouldn't make it a roguelike. 04:32:52 (Or maybe it would? I don't think so, but maybe changing the graphics to glyphs would be enough to sway my opinion. :p) 04:33:07 I don’t find Crawl’s style where almost everyone else is 0) your enemy and 1) an ally with everyone else the best way. 04:33:28 graphics fall in the "common for roguelikes but not something that makes a roguelike a roguelike" bin for me 04:33:50 If you meet a random ogre and a random hydra, why couldn’t the hydra be an enemy of the ogre as well? Take care of the hydra together and then perhaps the ogre notices you have some nice stuff it would like to have. 04:33:57 monqy: Right, that was facetious, but it's something that affects my gut reaction. 04:34:05 ion: crawl devs don't like that sort of stuff 04:34:11 If you show me a grid of tiles with a @ moving about in it in turn-based fashion I'll think "roguelike". 04:34:27 Or perhaps it finds you a bit too formidable and prefers to try not to provoke you. 04:34:38 ion: Yeah, I don't really like the "MONSTER TEAM" thing. 04:34:54 An ogre wouldn't exactly queue up behind a bat and a rat to wait to have a go at you. 04:35:11 OTOH, I can imagine that making monsters purely self-serving would just result in a dungeon full of blood and corpses. 04:35:32 i forget why the crawl devs don't like monsters fighting each other, or maybe it was just the outspoken opionionful devs that didn't like it 04:35:40 i.e. dpeg didn't like it, and he really didn't like it 04:36:30 dpeg sounds awful 04:36:57 opinions was his job (he didn't touch the code) and he sure had a lot of it 04:37:03 some of his opinions were good 04:37:07 the rest were bad 04:37:10 wait how are you a "dev" if you don't touch the code 04:37:16 he was lead dev 04:37:18 isn't the job title "loudmouth" 04:37:23 “manager” 04:37:32 "lead designer" 04:38:11 devesignoper 04:38:21 i forget exactly how many of his opinions were good/bad but 04:41:48 monqy: you should name my roguelike 04:41:52 something nice and misspelled 04:41:58 can you make a word that's a misspelling of itself 04:43:00 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:43:09 oops 04:43:18 -!- monqy has joined. 04:44:03 monqy: i had no idea there were so many angband variants 04:44:10 there are lots 04:44:19 also 04:44:23 05:38 i forget exactly how many of his opinions were good/bad but 04:44:23 05:41 monqy: you should name my roguelike 04:44:23 05:41 something nice and misspelled 04:44:25 05:41 can you make a word that's a misspelling of itself 04:44:27 if you 04:44:29 missed 04:44:33 before you quitted 04:44:46 @ 04:44:47 "Animeband is an animé-themed variant of Angband, with references to dozens of different animé series and video games. Its primary language is Japanese, although versions are later ported into English." "For example, races include DBZ Saiyajins and Androids, Moogles from the Final Fantasy series, and 'Hententmons' (a combination of hentai tentacle beasts and Pokémon)." thank you, RogueBasin 04:46:10 monqy: oh, of course 04:46:16 ugh i had a nice implementation of this function but I've forgotten it 04:47:22 monqy: what's a nice implementation of (Monad f) => (a -> f b) -> f (Maybe a) -> f (Maybe b) 04:50:24 hm 04:50:41 @type \f xs -> maybe (return Nothing) (fmap Just . f) =<< xs 04:50:41 forall a (m :: * -> *) a1. (Monad m, Functor m) => (a1 -> m a) -> m (Maybe a1) -> m (Maybe a) 04:50:44 istr the solution involves >>= and liftM 04:50:53 ion: that's what I have 04:50:56 it's not ideal :( 04:52:13 hmmm 04:52:23 i would also accept 04:52:30 (Monad f) => f (Maybe (f a)) -> f (Maybe a) 04:52:36 which I think is what lead me to the nice solution last time 04:54:15 It would be the case that the high score table would not be kept if any of the options I have specified are adjusted; unless you created a seperate high score table for the specific set of options. 04:54:33 monqy: did you see zzo38's suggestions for crawl 04:54:37 yes 04:54:56 i liked a lot of them but probably they wouldn't work in crawl 04:55:01 because crawl is crawl 04:55:38 I do remember when playing the game, that I have wanted some race/class combinations which are not available; there were also some races and some classes which I have wanted to use which did not existing in that game. 04:55:56 most race/class combinations are selectable in crawl 04:56:11 the only ones you can't select are impossible in-game right 04:56:11 the only ones that aren't are things like demigod priests since demigods can't worship gods 04:56:20 a few redundant ones are unselectable too i think 04:56:29 and things that depend on items you can't use 04:56:37 mostly this applies to felids 04:56:48 you forgot to say ha ha ha felids 04:56:52 ha 04:57:09 I would want to be able to select redundant ones and ones which have unusable features anyways; they should simply be highlighted in a different color to warn you 04:58:12 crawl already highlights terrbible combinations 04:58:18 by highlight i mean 04:58:19 the opposite of that 04:58:53 (>>= maybe (return Nothing) (fmap Just)) 04:59:06 zzo38: Yeah, that's what I came up with too. 04:59:10 I swear I had something nicer. :( 04:59:27 Are you sure? 04:59:47 I think so. 05:00:34 What did you call it? Is "joinJust" OK? 05:01:39 I didn't call it anything, I inlined it at its only use site. :p 05:01:59 and you lost it :'( 05:02:56 Okay, how about f (Maybe (a -> b)) -> f b -> f (Maybe a)? 05:03:00 (>>= sequence) 05:03:06 -!- augur has joined. 05:03:10 Nice! But for Applicative f only this time :( 05:03:38 (I was answering your original question; not this new one.) 05:04:55 Ah 05:05:10 That's much nicer :) 05:05:18 I take it that's Traversable's sequence? 05:05:21 yes 05:05:43 elliott: Yes. 05:05:58 yes 05:06:04 yes 05:07:55 @type \f xs -> sequence . fmap f =<< xs 05:07:56 forall (m :: * -> *) a a1. (Monad m) => (a1 -> m a) -> m [a1] -> m [a] 05:08:08 sequence . fmap f, aka mapM f 05:08:38 Ah, indeed. 05:08:48 O, yes, it is 05:10:06 monqy: should i play corwael 05:10:07 omg 05:10:10 that's my roguelike's name 05:10:10 corawel 05:10:12 oops 05:10:17 excellent, i'm misspellign it already 05:10:17 corwael 05:10:19 good name 05:10:25 it's set in scotland 05:10:28 you have to kill all the scots 05:10:34 its plote 05:10:37 I think you may also be misspelling "misspelling" too, isn't it? 05:11:08 its true 05:11:16 im also misorthographising "it's" and "I'm" 05:11:26 or is it misorthographing 05:11:32 I don't know 05:11:36 :( 05:11:52 misthinging 05:11:52 corwæl 05:11:57 monqy: im corl 05:12:10 ii watchtch 05:12:32 god i really hate the earlygame 05:12:52 all the better to autuomat it 05:12:56 im going to make a mini-roguelike where you start out fully equipped and statted 05:12:59 at the endgame 05:13:17 so it's just fune endgame dying action all the way 05:13:17 doomrl has something kind of like that 05:13:43 O, and then you have to decrease your stats as you advance an experience level......... 05:13:54 angel of confidence and angel of overconfidence challenge games, at which you start out 1/3 and 2/3 through the game already, respectively, with some gear to match 05:13:55 zzo38: a reverse roguelike? :D 05:13:59 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:14:12 and i think some odd angbands have modes where you start at the bottom and have to get out 05:14:18 monqy: mine would be more like 05:14:32 22:13:43 < zzo38> O, and then you have to decrease your stats as you advance an experience level......... 05:14:34 tries to present you with a game of nethack that has already been played up to the planes or whatever 05:14:38 ive heard of a roguelike like that 05:14:42 elliott: Well, you could reverse experience levels in some game possibly. 05:14:44 (wrt what zzo said) 05:14:47 i forget what it is called 05:14:51 and I don't thinkl i've ever played it 05:15:03 people who say wrt are good people 05:15:32 John while James had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher 05:15:38 crawl monsters that need to be removed: bats, phantoms, this list was longer but i forgot the other items 05:15:56 there are a lot more 05:16:04 *that need to be removed that i have encountered 05:16:11 elliott: OK, then add one option to my list which allows you to remove bats and phantoms and the other ones 05:16:12 mcrawl gets rid of all the annoying water and lava monsters by way of not having water or lava 05:16:30 06:16 amulet of rage[1/1]: Allows you to go {berserk}, and may extend the duration on kills. Chance of success depends on evocations. 05:16:31 oh no 05:16:34 this amulet will not be good for me 05:16:40 you're aghoul 05:16:41 cant berk 05:16:49 imps are no good either 05:16:51 _e - a cursed -2 ring of protection (left claw) 05:16:52 im ac 2 05:16:59 yumme 05:17:05 monqy: yeah imps should go but they're less annoying than phantoms 05:17:19 uhhh 05:17:20 vampires 05:17:24 you haven't seen them but 05:17:25 wow 05:17:34 what do they do 05:17:35 oh yeah 05:17:38 worms and goliath beetles 05:17:40 well 05:17:41 no 05:17:43 I would also make up a game that, if any wearable item is cursed, the curse only disallows you to remove it and not any other effect. Non-wearable items which are cursed differ in different ways. 05:17:45 actually worms just need nerfing 05:17:46 oh you mean 05:17:50 elliott: I’m bored of watching your ghoul games. Play a DESu. :-( 05:17:53 worsms and golaioth betls nee dtogo 05:17:54 to have a less powerful attack 05:18:06 elliott: play a desu so ion stops complainign about it 05:18:10 yes 05:18:10 ion: i might play a strong melee race at some point 05:18:26 i don't want to play fancy stuff until i've won something because otherwise i'll just keep hopping forever 05:18:41 yay 05:18:43 maybe you'll hate desu 05:18:47 good chance you'll hate desu 05:18:59 monqy: ill hate desu because of the acronym it doesnt matter what the play itself is like 05:19:14 then play musu (ha ha ha) 05:19:31 what's musu like 05:19:34 is it ha ha ha 05:20:14 I would also have no autocursing items (although it might be the case that some items are more likely to be created cursed) 05:20:47 monqy: is there a way to force rest/travel even if an X is nearby 05:21:01 elliott: luau scripts 05:21:23 thanks 05:21:26 musu is one of the "infamously boring characters" 05:22:32 06:22 musu[1/1]: Most exciting race/class combination ever! Wait 300k turns, go to next Dlvl, repeat. If you have a boring beetle zombie pet, you should name it "MuSu". 05:22:34 sounds gr8 05:22:52 nice ring!!!!! 05:24:15 musu isn't actually like that but 05:24:30 what's it like i don't know what 05:24:32 sus do 05:24:36 summon stuff 05:24:37 except 05:24:38 summon 05:24:39 right 05:24:44 why does mu make it more boringer 05:24:56 hungerlesssnes 05:24:59 you get free channeling 05:25:06 so you just sit there spamming summons until things die? 05:25:17 that's the gist of it 05:25:22 gr9 05:25:32 noooo 05:25:33 nooo 05:25:34 fuck 05:25:35 gnolls 05:25:44 whyyy 05:25:55 whyyyyyyyyyy 05:26:14 i think this is the first time i've died to a hobgoblin 05:26:45 personally i find summonerrs lsess boring than conjurers because there's less keywork in it 05:27:03 monqy i died 05:27:05 :'( 05:27:09 about the same level of thought (not much) but easier to numb the pain 05:27:12 :'/ 05:27:30 I would do it too, you can select any kind of creature in game as your character and also too many classes to list, so instead we have to make the race/class selection you type in what you want, and you can use tab-completion; if you type ? then it selects one at random, and if you push ? followed by tab then it expands to a random selection in place, which you can remove if you wish. 05:27:33 pretty much everyone who isn't me prefers conj. over summ 05:27:37 its not unreasonable to think that gnolls hit way too hard for things that can hit you from afar and come in packs really early on right 05:27:54 you're probalby mishandling them a little bit 05:28:05 my gnoll strategy is just "run" because even with a chokepoint they just wear down my hp :( 05:28:08 they haven't been so bad for my musus 05:28:09 er 05:28:10 not musus 05:28:11 mucks 05:28:16 and aren't mucks like 05:28:19 worse than ghmo?? 05:28:24 yes but 05:28:29 your script is probably smarter than me 05:28:36 my script is rly dumb 05:28:43 exactly 05:28:47 ok how do i handle gnolls 05:28:49 D: 05:28:53 i don't know 05:28:57 it just comes naturally ?? 05:29:27 :( 05:29:30 elliott: Play a spriggan enchanter. 05:29:33 my previous strategy was 05:29:35 chokepoint 05:29:36 tab tab tab 05:29:38 but that lead to 05:29:38 die 05:29:40 because 05:29:42 they hit hard 05:29:45 and come in packs 05:30:28 so 05:30:29 :( 05:31:38 elliott: They move fast, are stealthy, don’t need to eat much and are pretty okay at enchanting. 05:31:38 ill just 05:31:42 resign myself to dying to gnolle 05:32:10 ion: yeah but that's like wildly different from everything else i've played (apart from my unserious spas diving) so 05:32:20 INDEED. 05:32:28 branching out is good 05:32:29 You’ll get to confuse guys and stab them. 05:32:37 monqy: not when i'm terrible at everything! 05:32:39 Do you know anything about what I have posted far above relating to partial orderings and categories? 05:32:47 im trying to become less bad at things before branching out 05:33:38 bad mindset 05:33:54 is the implication that i'm not good at anything 05:34:05 erm 05:34:08 *not going to get less bad at 05:34:41 Perhaps you’ll get better at things *by* branching out. :-) 05:34:53 ok ok 05:34:55 what should i play 05:34:55 You’ll have more fun. 05:34:57 uhhh 05:35:13 what's a nice melee race with lots of hp and str except not mibe or mifi or whatever because they're TOO MAINSTREAM 05:35:18 by race i mean 05:35:19 combo 05:35:21 play whatever ion suggests so he'll shut up 05:35:27 SpEn! DECj! DESu! TrBe! 05:35:36 monqy: ion will never shut up 05:35:37 ok don't play what ion says 05:35:43 ion: SpEn does not meet 05:35:44 my criteria 05:35:45 afaict 05:35:56 i think trbe counts as too mainstream 05:36:00 what does str have to do with anything 05:36:00 I just want you to try a goot magic guy. 05:36:01 WkmO? WWNp? ABCD? 05:36:03 good 05:36:06 15534 games 05:36:07 too mainstream 05:36:12 monqy: oh str was 05:36:15 literally an abbreviation for strength 05:36:19 not referring to the stat 05:36:21 o h 05:36:31 ion: crawl's magic seems boring 05:36:38 It’s pretty fun. 05:36:40 it depends on what magic you're doing 05:36:44 some people like it 05:36:47 some people like parts of it 05:36:51 some people don't like any of it 05:36:59 you'll have to try each part of it for yourself 05:37:18 or i could just unfairly disregard it 05:37:18 It’s so fun to cast ice/fire clouds with a powerful DE. 05:37:29 no that's boring 05:37:38 clouding everything is so ugh 05:37:40 elliott: You also have to try Sprint! 05:37:46 i did i died after 3 turns 05:37:47 doing the same spell routines to everything is uuuugh 05:37:57 i would play a summoner except 05:38:00 do you get to summon straight away 05:38:02 yes 05:38:04 yes 05:38:10 you get spammals 05:38:10 hmmm 05:38:17 how different are the first few dlvls playwise to like 05:38:19 everything i've been doing 05:38:21 with a summoner 05:38:43 different 05:38:55 ok 05:39:02 what race for summoner :( 05:39:05 DE 05:39:08 no 05:39:12 og 05:39:19 monqy: that's greyed out!!! 05:39:27 you want a noongrey? 05:39:35 you're trolling me so i end up with problem and then i will mad :( 05:39:46 wait ion is here he'll take that non-ironically 05:39:49 ogsu is "goode" 05:39:52 Are you allowed to select one that are greyed out? 05:39:54 monqy: felid is non-grey maybe i should go with felid!!! 05:39:55 "i like it" 05:39:56 zzo38: yes 05:39:58 it's just saying 05:39:58 elliott: yes 05:40:01 "crawl devs don't like this" 05:40:07 DE has the most MP at start IIRC. 05:40:09 monqy: ogres don't sound like they'd be very good at magic!!! 05:40:11 this sounds like a TRICK 05:40:16 elliott: ogres have +2 spellcasting 05:40:20 what really 05:40:20 ok 05:40:21 I realized that what I wrote above about partial ordering as a category is correct; I look on Wikipedia and yes it is in there the same thing I was thinking of. 05:40:24 fine im ogsu 05:40:28 yay 05:40:28 elliott: JOKES' THEY HAVE -3 IN EVERY SCHOOL 05:40:29 why don't ogres have lots of health 05:40:36 ogres have lots of health jeeze 05:40:50 monqy: your joke is mean :'( 05:40:51 you didn't even try? 05:40:52 lame 05:40:56 nope 05:40:59 you should at leastt 05:40:59 "i blame monqy" -- me 05:41:00 try it 05:41:07 not before trying something less hideously terrible!!! 05:41:07 Agreed 05:41:14 it's not hideously terrible! 05:41:23 wanna play ddsu? have fun 05:41:30 no 05:41:31 i was just 05:41:34 resting the cursor 05:41:51 ill play musu if yhou don't save me in the next 10 seconds 05:41:59 anyway pick whatever i don't care. just don't play vpsu 05:42:12 Why not just pick DE? They’re good at magic. 05:42:26 monqy: guess what i just focussed 05:42:30 Play as ABCD 05:42:30 focussssed 05:42:39 (if it is permitted!) 05:42:40 elliott: vp has the most annoying hunger mechanic in the game 05:42:47 play as zzoo 05:42:48 is it the potion of blood thing 05:42:51 yes 05:43:11 you have to manage your blood level for resists/regeneration/etc 05:43:16 anyway i cant play DESu because itll result in terrible people making terrible jokes based on the acronym sory 05:43:20 monqy: sounds lovely 05:43:25 elliott: i won't make joke 05:43:36 its not you im worried about!!! 05:43:37 That’s not nearly as funny as HOMo. 05:43:42 shut up 05:43:44 golly 05:43:46 ^ 05:43:54 elliott: Then modify the acronym and recompile 05:43:59 hey you know what'[s funny 05:44:01 KoCK 05:44:03 play KoCK 05:44:09 ha ha ha ha haah ah ah ah ha haha its hilarious because its a word 05:44:13 kobold chaos knight? 05:44:23 thats the only one i can figure out 05:44:37 desu is deep elf summoner 05:44:37 i dont even remember what mu is 05:44:42 mummy 05:44:44 oh 05:45:40 oops 05:45:42 i restarted ogsu 05:45:48 it's ok 05:45:51 monqy: ok listen ill do ogsu if you come clean about how terrible it is 05:45:51 you can play ogsu now 05:46:02 elliott: m 05:46:04 it's not terrible! 05:46:11 06:40 elliott: JOKES' THEY HAVE -3 IN EVERY SCHOOL 05:46:14 i dont believ yuo :'( 05:46:21 Category theory does a lot of things!! 05:46:32 Spellcasting is probably more important and it’s positive for ogres. 05:46:52 monqy: ok what i focus 05:46:57 uhhhh 05:47:06 turn off dodge and stealth 05:47:20 and use manual mode of course 05:47:21 ok how do i 05:47:22 spelle 05:47:22 Switch to manual and perhaps use Spellcasting * and Summonings + 05:47:34 elliott: z key to spell 05:47:34 ion: summonings are -3 apt though :'( 05:47:46 elliott: it matters less than you'd think 05:47:50 uhhh should i still melee small things 05:47:53 Kan extensions also does a lot of things!! 05:47:54 z? lists spells, M memorizes new ones. 05:47:58 You shouldn’t melee. 05:48:02 you should melee 05:48:07 but use a giant spiked club!!!! 05:48:13 Just spammals now. 05:48:15 not your fists 05:48:21 for just startinfg off use spoammals 05:48:22 i don't have giant spiked club 05:48:23 you can train a weapon later 05:48:31 aaargh no 05:48:36 ogre has bad hunger 05:48:55 thank 05:49:23 Rest to get Spammals! 05:49:27 err 05:49:29 Spammals! 05:49:33 Rest to get more MP 05:49:41 this is tricky 05:49:44 before 5’ing to kobolds 05:49:44 elliott: go musu if you don't wnat hungre 05:49:50 Err. I’m too tired for IRC. 05:49:50 monqy: noooo 05:49:53 before o’ing to kobolds 05:50:07 what about kosu 05:50:12 kobolds have an ok hunger mechanism 05:50:18 (and 0 hp) 05:50:54 then go kosu 05:51:04 a wall of summons is kind of like hp 05:51:06 done 05:51:07 ill regret this 05:51:28 what should i do when i summon a bat urgh 05:51:31 if i recast i run out of mp 05:52:40 uhhhh 05:52:45 unix signals are an unholy clusterfuck 05:52:46 i have no idea how to play this properly 05:52:50 Just spammals with all your MP. 05:53:03 And switch places with them so they get to surround the guy. 05:53:20 kmc: No kidding 05:53:33 really the whole idea of POSIX is absurd at face value 05:53:49 kmc: Why do you hate UNIX signals? 05:53:50 that one could take a bunch of different operating systems that sort of have some shared history 05:53:58 and make them act almost like the same operating system 05:54:24 the remarkable thing about a dancing bear is not how well it dances, but that it dances at all 05:54:48 elliott: now is when you learn 05:54:56 learning is boring 05:54:57 elliott: You can tell your spammals to attack someone in their FoV with t 05:55:07 elliott: M to learn new spells. 05:55:17 learning is boring :( 05:55:18 Ok, you can’t yet. 05:55:35 kmc: hi, welcome to ##crawl! 05:55:42 zzo38: where to start 05:55:49 let's start with every table and list in http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/signal.7.html 05:56:30 also the sheer number of signal-related syscalls 05:56:37 linux has a syscall now named rt_tgsigqueueinfo 05:59:03 monqy: is su always like this 05:59:11 i dunno 05:59:12 how's su? 05:59:19 fiddly 05:59:27 Fiddly? 06:00:04 just added a bunch more options to squarelos' randomiser 06:00:14 i wanna see 06:00:17 including: messages_at_top, view_lock_x, view_lock_y 06:00:21 yessss 06:00:27 i must see 06:00:38 also the turn display will switch between the two different types of turns 06:00:42 so the turncount will go up and down 06:00:52 i hope messages_at_top changes less frequently 06:00:56 and it toggles -ctele display too 06:00:57 or you'll get a headache 06:00:59 yeah it does 06:01:27 * elliott spams space on the CDO game list 06:01:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:01:54 this is amazing 06:01:55 -!- calamari has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:02:00 :-) 06:02:05 im upset that not all the colours of the stat things change though 06:02:17 that turn count is just perfect 06:02:18 woops 06:02:35 tryin gagain 06:02:41 this time sitting up straight 06:02:44 not all 06:02:52 hunched over the back of my seat 06:02:56 i do that 06:03:20 monqy: another thing you could randomise is the number of lines devoted to messages 06:03:25 mmm 06:03:33 which would be especially great when it's on top 06:03:41 because everything else would bob up and down 06:04:12 does the language change on every turn? it seems to stay at Skermeesher for a while 06:04:14 oh there it goes 06:04:25 A concrete category is a category that is equipped with a faithful functor to the category of sets. But, what is a category that is equipped with a fully faithful functor to the free category of a subset of its quiver (meaning, a collection of some of its morphisms)? 06:05:18 monqy: i sent that around orc priest inner flam 06:05:49 monqy: what are the two types of turn anyway 06:06:26 one is how many moves you've made and the other is how long you've taken in game time 06:06:37 ah 06:06:51 I prefer the latter. 06:07:00 It immediately shows how slow your hits are etc. 06:07:11 one is a turn count and the other is a clock 06:08:24 monqy: rip (i didn't see what happened) 06:08:32 i feel like im getting progresisvely worse 06:08:49 sometimes i consider playing non-muck but that's just less cool no matter how you look at it 06:09:20 also why aren't my messages going to the top occasionally :( 06:09:32 i wondered this also 06:10:10 i think its fairly obvious that continually playing with a nigh-unusable interface and mashing with a nigh-useless script will make you worse :P 06:10:12 Is the smoke trail behind you caused by Xom? 06:10:16 yes 06:11:51 what should i play 06:11:58 muck is fine bu 06:11:58 t 06:12:02 maybe something else too 06:12:05 feck of chei 06:12:09 ugh fine 06:12:15 i was kidding but 06:12:18 go for it 06:12:31 that wasn't feck of chei 06:12:36 maybe my script doesn't work so good with feck 06:12:52 does it work so good with anything 06:13:15 play idk something 06:13:20 ion: what should monqy play 06:13:31 dunno 06:13:55 monqy: play DuNo 06:14:00 *DUNo 06:14:04 :( 06:14:19 Deep Undulate Norwegian 06:14:26 Deep Uranian Nobbler 06:14:36 i'll just play trck "oh well" 06:14:42 trck of chei please 06:14:49 fine 06:14:53 how to make a combo funnier: append "of chei" 06:14:57 im crawl expert already 06:15:20 i dont think my script knows how to not starv 06:15:40 maybe it forgot how to eat on nonghouls 06:15:54 nah that's definitely eating 06:16:05 Is it butchering? 06:16:11 yes 06:17:49 monqy: you should play deep dwarf skald 06:17:49 or 06:17:53 :( 06:18:02 merfolk fire elemental 06:18:40 monqy: merfolk fire elemental has to be good, right??? 06:18:46 :( 06:19:41 ":(" -- monqy 06:21:24 :-D 06:21:43 monqy: do fire elementals get a god 06:21:48 or merfolk 06:21:48 if you pcik one 06:21:50 i know nothing about either 06:21:52 i meant 06:21:53 stock 06:21:56 "ootb" 06:21:56 fire elementalists worship vehumet 06:21:58 obviously 06:22:32 do they have to 06:22:38 wow im lage 06:22:39 no 06:22:43 i mean 06:22:45 do they start doing so 06:22:48 monqy: im not lage 06:22:50 no I was joking 06:23:38 monqy: (D)'sterity 06:24:01 how come only health is changing colours now 06:25:17 animate skeleton looks like a fun spell 06:26:24 A dioid that remains a dioid if addition and multiplication are swapped and zero and one are swapped. 06:27:50 Is that something like topology? 06:29:08 monqy: ^ 06:29:39 wow, wtf 06:29:41 Do any mathematics known here? Maybe oerjan? Maybe someone else? 06:29:44 the skeletons from animate skeletons never time out? 06:30:53 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:31:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:33:33 monqy: what happened 06:33:41 Lava snakes 06:33:52 script got me deep into some serious lava snake trouble, i underestimated them on my escape trip 06:34:11 Lava snakes are equally nasty IRL. 06:35:03 monqy: have you considered you haven't been getting progressively worst, just your script has 06:35:27 no 06:35:46 but i require my script or crawl is unplayable 06:36:03 what does monqy's script do 06:36:05 not true, you can also dive!!! or maybe you considered that unplayable but you didn't seem to 06:36:10 Patashu: explore and fight and eat 06:36:19 he has it bound to spacebar 06:36:31 oh it also traverses stairs! 06:37:16 oh that's clever 06:37:19 it clears D:1 for you etc? 06:37:25 it clears everything for you 06:37:28 it's a bot 06:37:32 except it's dumb and gives up a lot 06:37:35 and monqy has to get it out of its mess 06:37:42 so it's more like 1/3 a bot 06:38:34 the important 1/3 06:38:35 obviously 06:38:40 have you seen monqy play 06:38:57 Danswan's ghost (powerful Tengu Conjurer) comes into view 06:39:01 hmm I wonder what spells it knows 06:39:32 nvm 06:39:34 it died before casting anything 06:40:44 monqy: are you going to play one of the combos i suggested ;( 06:40:49 uhh which 06:41:01 deep dwarf skald or merfolk fire elemental (whichever makes less sense) 06:41:11 i don't wnat either of those 06:41:49 that's why i suggested them 06:42:11 guess i'll do ddsk 06:42:44 i don't even know what skalds do 06:43:42 monqy: i like how deep dwarves just die slowly 06:43:50 reminds me of my life :'( 06:44:08 -!- aloril has joined. 06:44:08 ahahaha 06:44:09 it 06:44:14 abbreviated one of your inventory items as "hy" 06:44:57 g 06:46:42 monqy: rip 06:46:44 rip 06:47:03 07:45 hunger should be seriously nerfed 07:46 Robot2600: why? no one starves to death 06:47:08 stupid words :( 06:47:15 (i say it in here so nobody can disagree with me) 06:47:29 (that's the kind of abuse you can achieve when you ADMINISTRATE A POPULAR WIKI!!!) 06:49:52 monqy: you converted to chei? 06:50:13 does anyone have good abbreviations for "consequent" and "antecedent" 06:50:26 con, ant 06:50:29 cons, ante 06:50:33 conse, antec 06:50:50 conseq, antece 06:51:00 conseque, antecede 06:51:02 oh hmm i was misusing consequent and antecedent 06:51:11 what would you call p, a and b in if p then a else b 06:51:19 p is the consequent i guess 06:51:28 erm 06:51:31 antecedent i mean 06:51:45 a might be the consequent but then i'm not sure what b would be and this is kind of silly 06:57:34 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:00:11 The elsequent. 07:00:17 :D 07:00:30 monqy: what soids fk okkr p ekt 07:00:51 hlep?? 07:00:59 :( 07:02:34 monqy: shoudl i play sprint 07:02:46 if you want 07:02:50 is it crap 07:02:58 no 07:03:17 not interested then 07:03:20 it has different problems from normal crawl 07:04:15 which is the best sprint 07:04:19 I looks like it has sonja 07:04:23 i remember 07:04:26 sprint opinions being a thing 07:04:27 what are yours 07:05:02 uhhh 07:05:08 they're all different! 07:05:20 which ones are terrible 07:05:24 they're all different! 07:06:15 how do you not have opinions on them come on you hate something about almost every given aspect of crawl 07:06:40 i have opinions on each sprint and they're incomparable 07:06:56 yes but do any of them suck 07:07:04 depends on what you mean by suck 07:07:06 Hmm. I think i’ve won one of the sprints, but i don’t remember which one. 07:07:14 also apparently the crawl light server has a version with a bug where corpse sacrifices don't delete the corpses so you can gian infinite piety from them 07:07:34 monqy: you're awful just recommend me a sprint!!! 07:07:34 (bugged implementation of sacrifices sacrificing everything in los) 07:07:39 Crawl light server? 07:07:44 yah 07:07:53 elliott: all of them, in rotation 07:07:57 http://store.barackobama.com/joe-biden-can-holder.html thanks biden 07:08:00 monqy: uuugh 07:08:02 Huh, i hadn’t encountered Crawl light before. 07:08:03 monqy: which should i start with 07:08:10 elliott: any 07:08:16 you're awful 07:08:18 i'll do 3 07:08:24 elliott: cheers champ 07:08:33 ill be a felid abyssal knight 07:08:58 i died 07:09:59 im watchieng crawl lgiht game 07:10:17 where 07:10:19 where serve 07:10:28 telnet light.bitprayer.com 07:10:31 help 07:10:35 be sure to mess with your TERM if it's bad 07:10:42 -!- aloril has joined. 07:10:53 what's your password i want to send messages 07:11:20 Do you need a password to send messages? 07:11:31 i need monqy's specifically 07:12:11 name squarelos, password robin 07:12:20 theres only one active game and it's idle :( 07:12:30 (i just registerd there) 07:12:32 it wasn't idle 58 seconds ago! 07:12:39 (the ond server deid or something??) 07:12:48 (so my config is just defaults) 07:13:01 maybe you can try crawl light ! 07:13:02 can i play squarelos (i mean on cod (im not actually serious about this because i couldnt hope to live up to the artform you have taken crawl playing to)) 07:13:04 oh hey it's unidle 07:13:05 *cdo 07:13:15 yeah anyone can play squarelos 07:13:18 just don't mess with the config 07:13:30 i already said it wasn't serious!!! 07:13:33 *i 07:13:48 so far crawl light looks like crawl 07:13:54 Does this seriously not tell which Sprint i played? http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ion/morgue-ion-20110721-190348.txt 07:14:11 ion: violet keep of menkaure 07:14:45 Does it say that somewhere? 07:14:46 a few things look different from normal crawl 07:14:50 like it has a glow bar 07:15:01 and an auto 07:15:04 yeah 07:15:09 the experience system is a bit different 07:15:14 and # 07:15:37 monqy: i cant decide if my roguelike should use 256colours or not 07:15:46 whatever you want! 07:15:55 How about 2^32 colours 07:16:10 monqy: what does yours do!!! 07:16:13 qfr: terminals can't do that!!! 07:16:21 Make an OpenGL client 07:16:23 Doofus 07:16:26 elliott: undecided 07:16:27 So write a new terminal which will be a requirement for your new roguelike. 07:16:31 Also, are your roguelikes multiplayer? 07:16:33 Do they have PvP? 07:16:39 multiplayer roguelikes don't 07:16:43 work very well generally 07:18:05 What about Crawl light warrants a fork? 07:18:06 qfr: also why 07:18:07 opengl 07:18:27 im having trouble thinking of much a roguelike would require beyond sdl 07:18:37 -!- augur has joined. 07:18:43 unless you can reuse an existing opengl engine or whatever it 07:18:45 hardly seems worthwhile 07:18:59 SDL is icky 07:19:06 opengl is icky 07:19:15 Meh, better use a 2D API that’s an abstraction over OpenGL. You’ll get much better 2D acceleration. 07:19:20 qfr "never seen opengl" 07:19:26 ion: it's turn-based... but yeah im not defending sdl it's just 07:19:35 ion that remark made little sense 07:19:43 uh yes it did 07:19:47 it made perfect sense 07:19:50 for stuff like vector graphics, scaling etc. 07:19:51 ion: messing with a pixel buffer is a hell of a lot less pain than writing opengl crap 07:19:57 I suggest use a different frontend program as backend program, so that you can use it on a frontend for standard terminal, or a different one with mouse and icons, etc 07:19:59 especially if you use the programmable pipeline like you're meant to 07:20:22 are there any reasonably complete 2d apis that use opengl under the hood? 07:20:31 like that aren't at the level of "game framework" 07:20:59 I’d hope so, but i haven’t researched what’s available. 07:21:36 anyway i might go for a graphically-rendered non-terminal thing i dunno 07:21:50 it's more work 07:22:23 i kind of like the imposed 80x24 constraint you get if you go terminal-based and have moral standards though 07:22:24 Cairo supports OpenGL, but i don’t know whether it would be useful for a game. 07:22:40 also: font rendering is "a pain" 07:22:47 with a terminal everyone gets to use font rendering they like, more or less 07:22:56 everything is a pain 07:22:58 if i do it myself text will probably be kinda yucky 07:23:00 monqy: it's true 07:23:27 my reasons for terminal would be: font, terminal, online play, termcaste 07:23:33 i've preferred a graphical display occasionally because you can improve things like new monster discoverability with it 07:23:55 like it would actually be useful for brief stats to appear as a "tooltip" style thing when a new monster appears 07:24:03 you can't really do that with a terminal 07:24:24 monqy: wrt online play/termcasting, I have a fairly solid plan for that already 07:24:30 oh? 07:24:56 since I'm abstracting backends, the engine will explicitly keep track of "what the player knows/sees"; i.e. taking into account LOS and invisible monsters (if I have those) and so on 07:25:02 as a separate entity from the game world itself 07:25:09 and it will also keep track of how it /changes/ from one turn to the next 07:25:13 Browser-based is an alternative, too. 07:25:19 so you can turn that into a network protocol really easily 07:25:26 by simply streaming the changes 07:25:30 and that can be plugged in to the frontend locally 07:25:41 so you can use your client with your settings to connect to an external server 07:25:49 and similarly you can "termcast" by playing locally and also streaming the same stuff 07:26:02 and play on a server by having your client connect to a server and send commands/render the changes it gets 07:26:12 (which the server then also sends to anyone who wants to watch) 07:26:25 That stream with timestamps also works as a saved “termcast”. 07:26:25 monqy: it does require that people who want to watch have to have the game which is a disadvantage but 07:26:30 ion: yes, exactly 07:26:36 abstracting backens is something i'd do even if i only planned on implementing one backend but 07:26:38 it's better than a termcast because you can e.g. 07:26:40 seek to a turn 07:26:43 or seek to an event 07:26:44 or whatever 07:26:47 uuugh writing multiple backends and networking stuff 07:26:53 oh and 07:27:02 it'd be really nice to be able to look at someone's inventory 07:27:04 while they're playing 07:27:06 even if they don't choose to 07:27:07 things like that 07:27:27 And you’ll be able to freely look at the inventory, abilities etc. while observing. 07:27:32 that's what i said :p 07:27:34 Oh, you just said that. :-D 07:27:43 :--D 07:28:02 basically as long as you have a clear separation of game world / known game state / commands that have an in-game effect (like changing a training schedule or whatever) vs. commands that are just interface commands (opening/closing inventory, examining items, etc.) 07:28:18 then you get recording/broadcasting/server play for free 07:28:29 oh *you also have to track deltas 07:28:30 fsvo free 07:28:32 rather than just mutating things in-place 07:28:38 monqy: well, for cheap, at leat 07:28:39 *least 07:29:11 Perhaps also not make everything about the game based on convoluted logic written in low-level C code spread over a bunch of files under ellawl-ref/source. 07:29:20 monqy: it *is* nice that people can play online and always get the latest version of the game though 07:29:28 which you lose with this, you have to update it yourself 07:29:41 ion: isn't it C++ 07:29:47 monqy: so, i'm torn 07:30:08 monqy: i *could* implement all this and then just only write a terminal backend and put it behind a mosh server 07:30:17 but it feels like such a waste given the advantages 07:30:19 actually having said that 07:30:25 the recordings would be useful even if i did that 07:30:30 since you could watch them with the server's copy of the game 07:30:36 and still get all the nice seeking tools and so on 07:30:39 elliott: Well, not very C++-like C++, but it’s C++ FSVO C++. :-P 07:30:43 (and watch with your preferred charset!) 07:30:49 (and so on) 07:31:02 or your preferred client, such as one on a smartphone or a browser-based one. 07:31:11 or a terminal client on a VT100. 07:31:16 ion: you lost track of what i was saying. 07:31:24 you should read everything i say before replying :p 07:31:36 08:29 monqy: so, i'm torn 07:31:36 08:30 monqy: i *could* implement all this and then just only write a terminal backend and put it behind a mosh server 07:31:37 08:30 but it feels like such a waste given the advantages 07:31:38 08:30 actually having said that 07:31:40 08:30 the recordings would be useful even if i did that 07:31:40 Sorry, i’m very tired and have a bit of trouble concentrating. :-) 07:31:51 tiredness excuses don't work on me! 07:32:00 also, I never read anything anyone else says before replying 07:32:07 i'm just complaining because complaining is grreat 07:32:10 *grrreat 07:33:22 monqy: anyway "i d k" 07:33:27 me too 07:33:30 monqy: i don't really plan to have releases so 07:33:32 :'[ 07:33:35 oh 07:33:35 i do want everyone just playing the latest VCS version 07:33:46 which makes the you-have-to-install-it-locally thing difficult 07:33:48 unless it autoupdates 07:33:49 i haven t decided about releasinge 07:33:53 i 07:33:57 dont want to write autoupdates 07:33:58 wow 07:34:03 it was half a joke 07:34:14 a half too much 07:34:16 it would never work on e.g. linux where there's a billion things that can go wrong compiling 07:34:20 er 07:34:22 a half too little 07:34:35 monqy: what i could do is make the backend a separate executable 07:34:36 so like 07:34:54 all it has to handle is rendering a grid and messages and a stat display and do whatever fancy things like tooltips i add 07:34:55 so that 07:35:00 it wouldn't need updating when the game updated 07:35:03 but that'd make things like 07:35:06 viewing inventory of a game you're watching hard 07:35:13 because it'd uuuugh 07:35:15 programming is hard 07:36:04 i still haven't decided whether to go for 16 or 256 colours oops 07:36:25 how about 88 colors! 07:36:48 for terminal im torn. for nonterm i;d just go all coloiurs all the time 07:37:01 no two pixels should ever have the same color 07:37:19 that's what happens when you go all coloiurs all the time 07:38:12 there should be an artform where you pick a 256-color palette and then draw a 16x16 image which uses each color exactly once 07:38:39 kmc: Try 07:38:57 there's a program that converts images to huge ones that use an entire 16-bit pallette 07:39:04 but still look basically the same (except awful) 07:39:40 oh hey elynae's playing sprint iii 07:39:48 now's your chance to see sprint in motion 07:40:03 spront 07:40:12 that crawl light game was exceedingly dull 07:40:19 yes 07:40:35 rip elynae 07:40:40 killed by ctrl+s 07:40:43 :( 07:41:16 "sprinting is tough worke" 07:41:35 monqy: the thing with 256 colours is that picking colours for tiles becomes ~impossible 07:41:36 otoh 07:41:43 it allows for things like pretty shading for like 07:41:45 water depth or whatever 07:41:51 i think i've only won sprints 1 and 5 :( but i've won them a lote 07:41:52 or heat (if theiy'res fyre) 07:42:01 and like 07:42:08 pseudorandom shades of grey for walls and floor!!! 07:42:56 the trick to picking tiles colours is restrict yourself to say a 16 coloure palaet and then vary the coloures at rune time based on conditieons 07:43:03 e.g. lighting 07:43:09 yeah 07:43:13 or just a random variation 07:43:16 or something 07:43:27 just make everything rainbow 07:43:33 every tile is flashing rainbow 07:43:58 http://throbs.net/fun/swf.asp?rgb.swf (seizure warning) 07:44:36 old 07:44:42 but lovely 07:45:25 have you noticed how it stops seeming to have colour after a while 07:45:30 the colour becomes "flashing" 07:45:56 yeah 07:46:18 sort of 07:49:12 monqy: ive solved my colour problem "the solution is tiles" (guffaws) 07:49:39 gufawes 07:50:02 guyfawkes 07:50:20 good joke 07:50:24 laughter abounds 07:52:58 monqy: maybe ill colour everything programmatically 07:53:10 how do they decide tile colours for nethack and dcss anyway 07:53:17 well i guess nobody knows about the former 07:53:17 no clue 07:53:56 i don't know exactly how brogue does it but not everything of the same tile has the same colour so it definitely does something 07:54:11 yeah seeing brogue screenshot is what made me think maybe i should 256 07:54:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:50 monqy: should i play brogue can brogue be played online 07:56:02 i dunno if there are any brogue servers 07:56:34 and yes i recommend playing brogue it was fun until i got sick of it 07:56:41 can it be termcasted 07:56:48 ie does it have ~terminal playe~ 07:57:02 there are least used to be terminalmod but it's uuugly 07:57:24 (and the faketerm mode is pretty) 07:57:42 :'( 07:57:47 how can i play any game without broadcasting it!!! 07:57:59 you could 07:58:02 try the terminalmode 08:03:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:03:37 Hello 08:04:23 hi 08:10:15 Ubuntu 13.04 Radical Radish 08:14:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:15:55 that would be 12.10 08:16:14 13.04 would be Severe Skidmarks 08:17:09 16.10 would be Zygohistomorphic Zebromorphism 08:17:51 shutp up 08:17:52 12.10 is Quantal Quetzal 08:18:29 right, the english alphabet is different 08:18:34 cheater_, fuck off. 08:18:56 olsner, don't interact with cheater_; that way, he'll fuck off quicker. 08:19:42 hahaha 08:19:47 you're entertaining 08:19:54 i'll get some pop-corn and hang around 08:21:17 Phantom_Hoover: so what's up 08:22:02 cheater_++ for Zygohistomorphic Zebromorphism 08:22:21 -!- elliott has left ("this channel is terrible"). 08:22:36 i love it 08:22:46 but are you lovin' it? 08:22:48 cheater_ says the most innocuous thing and everyone flips out and gets butthurt 08:22:54 he is such a good troll that he doesn't need to do any trolling 08:23:02 i'm a co-troll 08:25:36 kmc have you seen the i3 wm? 08:25:53 no 08:26:26 sounds good 08:26:36 consider it a gift 08:27:34 so apparently software patents have been disabled from functioning in an EU court 08:27:49 waiting for the rest of the world to follow 08:28:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 08:28:43 another one bites the dust 08:33:26 I think it's dwarf fortress time 08:35:26 -!- mtve has joined. 08:45:30 Taneb, I my me mine I my me mine I my me mine I my me mine 08:45:39 (Yes, that has a very tenuous connection to DF) 08:46:18 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:06:40 i'm probably too stupid to play dwarf fortress, i keep on losing right away. 09:08:04 Time to stop 09:11:39 cheater_, there are guides... 10:02:22 in g++ 2.x you could define operator?: 10:06:47 -!- cheater__ has joined. 10:10:37 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:14:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:37:24 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:29:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 11:33:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:01:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:08:32 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:10:47 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:11:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:15:33 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 12:18:45 Hello 12:18:55 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:23:41 hi 12:26:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:30:43 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:21:41 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 13:50:01 I seriously have no idea what the mingw.org guys are thinking. Their installer has an installer. 13:53:24 meanwhile, I have decided that because all existing free wave-to-score programs suck, I need to write my own 13:54:58 I'm making decent progress, by using a novel approach I'm not sure has been tried yet 13:55:04 it's based on /not/ doing fourier transforms 14:10:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:12:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:14:07 I created a page on your wiki, http://esolangs.org/wiki/~English, about a language I designed. Is it okay? 14:18:39 AnotherTest: it's OK to document an esolang even if you're the only person who knows about it 14:19:01 alright 14:28:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:31:10 Sgeo: yeah, but i think playing by guides is sort of boring 14:31:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:31:21 Sgeo: it's less playing and more work 14:31:35 Then you will NEVER BE ABLE TO PLAY DWARF FORTRESS 14:31:37 *extreme 14:33:55 i see 14:34:04 sad but true 14:43:04 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:52:43 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:53:04 Can someone check out Lowgate again and see if it's correctly possibly-turing-complete now? 14:53:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Taneb/Lowgate_and_Dilston 15:25:55 I may play dwarf fortress for a bit 15:39:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:45:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:50:07 Bye! 15:50:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:51:30 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 15:52:05 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:55:27 -!- Gregor has set topic: It looks like an anemometer, but it is not. Anemometers don't fire bullets. Not even the expensive ones! Or I don't think they do ... if they do, meteorologists are more hardcore than I thought. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:08:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:16:11 -!- atran has joined. 16:16:44 -!- atran has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:02 how do I create a modifiable associative array in Javascript? is it {}, new Array. new {}, or something else? 16:34:33 The first one 16:34:45 And it's an object in JS parlance 16:35:02 new Array shouldn't be used at all in most cases 16:35:06 OK, just wondering if I'd create a constant if I did that 16:35:22 I really don't remember much JavaScript… 16:35:22 new {｝ isn't even valid syntax 16:35:33 JS doesn't have constants really 16:35:51 Or well, strings and numbers are immutable 16:36:00 But there are no immutable tuples or sequences 16:37:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:40:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:46:25 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 16:48:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:56:49 kmc: Nope. 16:57:12 Single DES doesn't sound like a good thing to use. 16:57:53 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 16:58:52 -!- asiekierka_ has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:00:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:00:16 Hello 17:01:15 hello. 17:04:38 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:12:33 I'm figuring out how to use reddit 17:12:36 Goodbye free time 17:22:48 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:21 I'm streaming df again 17:43:04 What do you guys think of Java? 17:43:13 I try not do. 17:43:15 *to. 17:43:17 Never used it 17:44:03 I teach it 17:44:12 and it is not a good language to teach people as their first programming language 17:44:12 I don't really like it, since I have only a limited amount of RAM on this old machine 17:44:22 indeed, it can be quite RAM-hungry 17:44:38 Fortunately all new machines come with infinite amounts of. 17:45:33 I have a newer machine too, although I always like software to be usable on both 17:46:35 The first (and so far, only) language I got decent at is Haskell 17:46:53 ah haskell 17:47:03 But that's because I think weird? 17:47:04 I was thinking about looking into that further some time ago 17:47:31 But I eventually just stayed with good old C++ 17:47:41 (as a main language) 17:48:06 I'm trying to learn C 17:48:28 no C++? 17:48:44 C++ doesn't quite appeal to me 17:48:48 ah 17:48:50 how so? 17:48:55 OOP? 17:49:04 I dunno 17:49:41 When I write C code, I'm usually annoyed by the unchecked type system 17:49:41 C++ is really incredibly far too complicated for its own good 17:49:55 ^ possibly :p 17:50:00 and just like XML and violence, the cure for dealing with C++ features tends to be more C++ features 17:50:12 ^ also possibly 17:50:26 although I still like the language 17:50:33 I like XML 17:50:39 Dunno why 17:51:20 ais523: but you can't ignore that some of those features are really appealing 17:51:34 AnotherTest: which are you a fan of? 17:51:39 templates. 17:51:43 Maybe because there's no equivalent for XSLT in S-expressions? 17:51:50 AnotherTest: oh dear 17:51:53 Unless Lisp is one? 17:51:55 -!- derdon has joined. 17:52:03 Taneb: Lisp has macros, which are saner than templates 17:52:09 ais523: that sounds bad :( 17:52:17 macros are usually bad 17:52:22 well at least in C++ 17:52:23 AnotherTest: do you know what SFINAE means? 17:52:31 Most web browsers don't run Lisp 17:52:37 AnotherTest: the word has a different meaning in Lisp to cp 17:52:38 *cpp 17:52:46 doesn't mean anything to cp :P 17:53:06 yes 17:53:12 it's a pretty big flaw. 17:53:35 AnotherTest: that C++ templates are so complicated that it's even /meaningful/ is a sign that something is wrong 17:53:53 they'd probably have been better of with explicit arguments in the <>, that'd avoid three quarters of the issues with them 17:54:00 although that'd still leave quite a lot wrong 17:54:01 * impomatic wants to learn a tiny language next so I can write my own compiler / interpreter. I though maybe Algol 60 or Oberon. 17:54:12 impomatic: ooh, go algol 60 17:54:23 I study mathematical idealizations of that, it's a really neat language 17:54:29 and there's not really been anything similar since 17:55:04 I have a few books on Algol... Maybe after I finished the next version of Itsy Forth. 17:55:21 Unfortunately, my C textbook was written pre-ANSI 17:55:50 Teneb: mine too. But you should be able to pick one up for a few $ 17:56:13 ais523: templates may have problems, but I think every language feature in every language has problems 17:56:37 what language would you propose as an alternative? 17:56:44 to C++? C 17:57:13 well, it really depends on what you're using it for 17:57:14 Not really an alternative. 17:57:31 since C doesn't even check types 17:57:41 C's typechecking is only marginally worse than C++'s 17:57:43 and also, it doesn't allow for user defined types 17:57:57 err, yes it does? typedef exists, as do struct, union, and enum 17:57:58 C++'s type checking isn't that bad at all I think 17:58:08 C and C++ have /almost the same typechecking algorithm/ 17:58:10 yes, but those do not allow member functions 17:58:15 only difference is that C++ treats const differently 17:58:18 Hmm... 17:58:19 AnotherTest: are your member functions virtual? 17:58:31 If needed. 17:58:35 if not, you can replace them with non-member functions with no issues 17:58:52 > 15.9 + 2.8 17:58:53 18.7 17:58:57 Yes, but it takes away a notational convenience 17:59:10 I can get a second-hand copy of K&R C for 18.70 17:59:10 who cares, it takes away a lot /more/ inconveniences 17:59:24 Mhm. 17:59:27 I'm not sure. 17:59:40 in fact, if you really need virtual functions, it's typically more straightforward to implement a vtable by hand than it is to use C++, which is a pretty crazy state of affairs 17:59:42 > 22.53 + 2.8 17:59:43 25.330000000000002 17:59:49 ??? 18:00:04 I doubt I have even a hundredths of your experience but I did find C++ quite nice so far 18:00:04 Are there any Factor fans here? 18:00:05 Taneb: floating point rounding error, I guess 18:00:21 But that's how much a new copy costs from amazon 18:00:26 impomatic: I don't know that much about it 18:01:21 It seems most of this channel is in either #0x10c-dev or #haskell or both 18:01:33 I'm not in either 18:01:39 and haven't heard of #0x10c-dev 18:01:51 same 18:02:08 although I'm not a frequent freenode visitor 18:02:10 hmm… 0x10c is 256+12 is 268 18:02:21 I don't see an obvious meaning to the number 18:02:38 ais523: http://0x10c.com/ 18:02:47 The year 268 would have been a leap year :p 18:03:25 oh, it's a notchgame 18:04:30 I think it's 10^c 18:04:47 10^c what would that be? 18:04:53 10 ^ speed of light ? 18:05:22 It's 0x10^0xc 18:05:35 oh 18:05:44 10 ^ 13 ? 18:05:58 16^12 18:06:15 It's Notch's (the maker of Minecraft) next game 18:06:26 Yeah, I realized that 18:06:27 but 18:06:32 what's up with the name? 18:06:49 presumably he's started using bizarre names ever since Bethesda threatened to sue him 18:06:52 Read the "backstory and setting" 18:08:18 Heh, I think I'm taking a trope too literally 18:08:24 I'm wearing a flag on my head 18:08:34 apparently Notch offered to settle the lawsuit with a match of Quake III 18:08:36 Also, bbq time, see you guys later! 18:08:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:09:02 Taneb: 9.46 http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Programming-Language-ansi-Version/dp/8120305965/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1336241084&sr=8-4 18:09:12 Oh too late... 18:10:09 impomatic: is that K&R2? 18:10:26 I wonder if that's still in print 18:10:31 ais523: Answering a question not asked to me; yes 18:10:33 and yes 18:12:27 ais523: You said you teach Java? I'm interested, what else do you teach? 18:12:36 AnotherTest: OCaml 18:12:43 used to teach C, but I got out of that 18:12:54 that module was a mess, and I couldn't do anything about it 18:12:55 Heard of that, it's a functional language based on ML right? 18:13:00 it was trying to fit far too much into the syllabus 18:13:19 AnotherTest: ML is a functional+imperative language; Caml is a dialect, OCaml adds objects to it but people rarely use them 18:13:35 aha, yes, I thought that 18:13:40 just that OCaml is probably the best-supported ML dialect around at the moment, so people use OCaml when they just want a generic ML 18:13:47 (much to the annoyance of SML fans) 18:13:53 I read it in 'an introduction to lambda calculus'(one of the many) I guess 18:14:19 That was 2 days ago, in fact 18:14:40 So, where do you teach? 18:14:44 Birmingham University 18:14:52 nice 18:16:34 Do the students learn Java as a first language? 18:16:35 because 18:16:35 ais523: By functional+imperative do you just mean impure functional 18:16:56 Deewiant: I mean that the language contains first-class imperative constructs 18:17:02 ifs, whiles, assignable variables, that sort of thing 18:17:10 Alright 18:17:12 I live very near the university of Leuven and here all students start with Java 18:17:25 AnotherTest: they do, although it's not really a good choice for a first language 18:17:49 What language would you say is good to start out with? 18:18:02 also, why would it be not a good language to start out with? 18:18:12 I started out with PHP I think. 18:18:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:18:52 Although that's not really general-purpose, and I think it might be better to start out with a general-purpose language(?) 18:19:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:19:54 My first language was BASIC :-( 18:20:01 hm 18:20:12 that makes me think of Edsger Dijkstra 18:20:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:21:04 not to insult you, but he once said that "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." 18:21:36 Dijkstra was wrong :-P 18:22:01 zzo38: is this your site? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net :-) 18:22:09 Yes I agree Dijkstra was wrong. Possibly with some students it will be difficult not everyone though 18:22:12 impomatic: Yes 18:23:01 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD04xx/EWD498.html 18:23:09 I think it should be in there. 18:23:52 zzo38: Google sent me to FORTAVM :-) 18:24:30 impomatic: Google sents you to everywhere 18:25:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:26:49 zzo38: not quite everywhere. I see this a couple of times a day "In response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page" :-( 18:27:32 Wow 18:27:36 I've never seen that before. 18:28:26 It should also not send you to my webpage because I have blocked that from any search engine 18:28:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/~English 18:28:31 It's my first esoteric programming language. Is it bad/alright/whatever? 18:29:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:35:21 AnotherTest: I don't know. 18:36:17 Just one more language related question 18:36:23 what do you guys think of Perl? 18:36:51 because I like it on one side, but I dislike the scalar type 18:37:02 and the constructors 18:37:53 I don't know a lot about Perl programming, but I do know AWK 18:44:04 AnotherTest: I like it quite a bit 18:44:07 Perl, that is 18:44:24 it's not appropriate for everything, but it's the language I normally use for writing a one-off program, or for writing glue code (whether one-off or not) 18:49:56 Someone said the Canadian government would be stop making pennies. Is it correct? And, does United States government doing the same thing? If it is correct, can the stores accept United States coins (many already do) so that you can pay for one cents as well? 18:52:20 -!- monqy has joined. 18:53:47 zzo38: that is correct; the last penny was minted yesterday. 18:54:01 The US has no plans at the point that I'm aware of. 18:54:12 I suppose that stores will accept US pennies, likely 18:55:14 Also, how does this affect taxes? 18:56:26 Taxes aren't paid in cash 18:57:01 Uhhh, surely taxes CAN be paid in cash. 18:58:58 Do you like this chess variant? Except for the White player's first turn, each player may, twice per game, move a piece with duplication meaning a copy is left at its original location. You may not duplicate queens and kings (although pawns can be duplicated). Also, pawns can use such a move while capturing or non-capturing; other pieces can use duplication only for non-capturing. 18:59:45 Gregor: I've never heard of anyone paying taxes in cash rather by cheque or other means 19:00:05 -!- impomatic has left. 19:00:28 coppro: I don't mean that it's ever done, but all sorts of theories of economics break down if cash can't even be used to pay the institution that defines its value ... 19:01:50 Gregor: No they really don't 19:02:37 Gregor: you can definitely clear bills in the UK using cash, there are designated places you can go to with some cash and some bills you want to pay, and they will take the cash from you and electronically send the same amount of money to the person the bill is from 19:02:51 only works with compatible bills, but there are quite a lot of those 19:03:33 mostly it's done in supermarkets, to make sure they're sufficiently commonplace 19:03:57 Gregor: money is artificial; physical cash too 19:05:34 coppro: No shit. Not relevant. 19:05:53 Gregor: yes it is 19:06:17 cash can be used to pay, just not directly 19:06:35 The government should not be forced to rely on other institutions to accept payment. 19:07:09 Moreover, the government should not force YOU to rely on other institutions to give payment. 19:08:12 that's stupid 19:08:48 Well, your argument is both powerful and convincing X_X 19:10:22 Gregor: It is stupid to make a system that relies exclusively on the transfer of physical objects with deemed value, when there is nothing in particular that is special about those objects versus any other forms of payment 19:11:13 Physical cash is not the underpinning of the economy 19:11:20 coppro: There is nothing special in general fare, but there is something special for the government: THEY MINT IT. 19:11:41 irrelevant 19:12:49 physical cash is a convenience 19:12:50 nothing more 19:13:24 Physical cash is a convenience which also happens to be the only form of money directly attributed value by the government trying to accept funds X_X 19:14:02 no, it's not 19:14:45 This conversation. It is so pointless. I don't even give a fuck anymore. 19:14:52 laws about bills of exchange exist 19:14:54 physical cash is only a token of value 19:14:57 ^ 19:15:10 a cheque is a negotiable instrument the same as cash 19:15:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:16:39 it has its value defined by reference to cash, but there is no reason that cash needs to exist. If the government made a law saying "the new currency is the entirely digital zordnik. We are going to regulate the supply of zordniks like we did paper money." things would work fine. 19:18:28 I have a idea for "digital cheques": You put the cheque number, sequence number, date, amount, and type of currency, and then digitally sign it with your private key. It may be further encrypted with the recipient's public key and/or the bank's key (to ensure not NSF cheque). And then you print it out and give it to the recipient the same as an ordinary cheque. 19:18:29 BUT THEY DIDN'T FUCKING DO THAT 19:18:58 A check is an instrument the same as cash negotiated WITH BANKS. The banks are regulated but they are not the government. 19:19:04 Argh why am I still talking 19:19:14 I need elliott's "just huff out" ability. 19:19:17 (The sequence number is there to ensure that it is not copied) 19:23:46 Gregor: The banks are institutions granted charter by the government. Like, say, the mint. 19:27:46 I had some question in here before relating to mathematics; I would wonder, does somme people in here, know any of these answers? 19:28:42 perhaps 19:28:49 can you reask them or point to them in the logs 19:28:54 OK 19:29:36 One question is, I know that a category equipped with a faithful functor to category of sets is called concrete category. But what is a category which is equipped with a fully faithful functor to the free category of a subset of its quiver? 19:31:40 I have other question too, in case you want them repeated at this time, too. 19:35:10 Is there a dioid which is also a dioid if addition is swapped with multiplication and zero is swapped with one; and what (if anything) does this have to do with topology? 19:38:05 bleh, this closure isn't closing properly 19:38:38 * ais523 tries putting it in an anonymous scope 19:38:51 ais523: What closure do you mean? 19:39:05 it's an anonymous function in JavaScript 19:39:56 coppro: Do you even know answer of these question relating to mathematics? 19:41:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:53:50 ais523: Pastebin some code. 19:54:41 Gregor: I'm going to get around it by using eval, I think, which is really hacky 19:55:06 Uhh, yeah, don't do that X-D 19:55:16 Post some code or describe your problem or something X-D 19:55:58 basically, I do { var fc = f; var gc = g; obj.onchange = function() { myfunc(fc, gc); } } 19:56:24 in a loop 19:56:36 and when myfunc's called, it's always with the values of f and g on the last iteration of the loop 19:56:58 (function(fc, gc) { return function() { ... }; })(f, g) 19:56:59 Yes 19:57:03 That's how closure works. 19:57:11 that is bizarre 19:57:16 -!- jfischoff has joined. 19:57:19 Not really 19:57:20 Why is it bizarre? 19:57:23 That ... is not bizarre. At all. 19:57:28 It's just an imperative language with closures. 19:57:28 Gregor: wouldn't that just call the function immediately? 19:57:30 That's how closure works in any language I've used 19:57:32 `welcome jfischoff 19:57:37 ais523: It does. 19:57:41 jfischoff: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 19:57:43 But what that achieves is that it rebinds the variables 19:57:44 ais523: That calls the OUTER function immediately, the outer function returns an inner function which closes as you expect. 19:57:50 oh, I see, you need a scope that happens to belong to a function to close, rather than just any function 19:57:50 It make sense to me. 19:57:51 Creates a new environment with their current values 19:57:54 what a weird restriction 19:58:03 what 19:58:05 in Perl, any lexical scope will do 19:58:05 ais523: JavaScript only HAS function-level scopes. 19:58:08 How is it weird? It is sensible to me. 19:58:16 Gregor: ah, OK, that's what I was missing 19:58:19 Actually newer versions of JS have block scope 19:58:24 If you use "let" instead of "var" 19:58:26 Gregor: In Mozilla, you can use let to add other scopes too 19:58:34 That explains it. 19:58:43 zzo38: Fine fine, in ECMAScript you only have function-level scopes. 19:59:14 Mozilla also supports yield, and also allows changing prototypes, which I have occasionally found to be useful. 19:59:32 So, if you are writing the program to run in Mozilla, then you can use these features. 20:00:48 hello Gregor 20:00:59 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:01:42 jfischoff: You're lucky, we're actually talking about a language, albeit a nonesoteric one. Usually we talk about stupid nonsense and play with the bots. 20:02:11 As well as a large number of other stuff. 20:02:20 Oh, but you're not actually new, I just hadn't seen you X-D 20:02:21 Oh well 20:02:26 We are rarely on the topic but feel free to ask anyways. 20:02:47 This is an advice that you should tell to everyone entering this channel. 20:03:24 We should add it to `welcome ^^ 20:03:34 Welcome to a channel where we talk about random shit, enjoy! 20:04:11 Gregor: What is surprising about javascript is the variance of the user's skill level 20:04:20 Haha, indeed. 20:04:38 so people think it is a bad language 20:04:41 From "obviously eval is the only way to solve this what are arrays?" to "I use JavaScript because I have years of experience with Scheme" 20:04:47 but really it is an okay language 20:05:06 Gregor: totally 20:05:49 http://osteele.com/sources/javascript/functional/ 20:06:10 I know it's an OK language, but I also know I'm not very good at it 20:06:15 ...I don't think the variance is surprising at all 20:06:23 I'd almost understood it right, just missed the nonexistence of inner scopes 20:06:23 At least it has /some/ good users 20:06:25 (Unlike, say, PHP) 20:06:51 Yes, JavaScript is better than PHP 20:07:07 zzo38: way better, IMHO 20:07:22 Yes. 20:09:57 But, FurryScript and Icoruma are implemented in PHP. Unfortunately, Icoruma is too slow with PHP. But at least I do better that Internet Quiz Engine is implemented in C (you might disagree and say there are security issues; but look at the program and then make a better opinion/analysis). 20:12:20 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 20:13:27 (Actually, the main menu of Internet Quiz Engine (selectors starting "quiz.menu") is implemented in PHP, but when a quiz file is running (selectors starting "quiz.run"), that part is written in C.) 20:13:37 zzo38: no, I do not 20:13:54 although the first seems irrelevant 20:14:01 and the second far too vague 20:15:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:15:24 -!- ion has joined. 20:15:32 coppro: You are refering to my questions about mathematics? What makes the first one irrelevant? And what is wrong with the second one? 20:16:30 the first one is nomenclature for a property that does not seem particularly relevant, and "what does X have to do with Y" is, as a rule, always too vague 20:19:25 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:25:19 coppro: Do you have any opinion about my Haskell "prelude-generalize"? 20:26:54 I don't know what that is. 20:28:44 It affects the type of many standard functions, as well as implement a few new classes, and import common things from many other modules. Such as: head :: Foldable t => t x -> x; tail :: MonadLogic m => m x -> m x; (!!) :: (Copeanoid i, Foldable t) => t x -> i -> x; filter :: MonadPlus m => (x -> Bool) -> m x -> m x; choice :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f x) -> f x; concat :: (MonadPlus m, Foldable f) => m (f x) -> m x; 20:30:33 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:31:28 In addition, you will write "head" instead of "fromJust", and "null" instead of "isNothing", and "convList" instead of "listToMaybe" or "maybeToList". 20:32:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:39:14 hi zzo38 20:39:23 hzo38 20:40:37 shachaf: Hello. Do you like 83 cent coins? 20:40:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:41:01 zzo38: I've never seen one. 20:41:07 Are you named after them? 20:41:16 shachaf: No. 20:41:47 I read an article somewhere that wants the Canadian government to make 83 cent coins. 20:42:01 zzo38: What are you named after? 20:42:49 shachaf: Actually, some random letters and number that a long time ago I was making a design on a pollowcase and ask them I wanted to put numbers, but the only numbers they had is 3 and 8. 20:43:12 (Some people do not believe this; but actually this is true.) 20:43:30 zzo38: Did you see monqy's self-portrait of me? 20:43:39 shachaf: No. I have not seen. 20:43:47 It's pretty great. 20:43:50 But I lost the link. 20:46:12 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png 20:47:11 thonqy 20:47:13 OK 20:47:29 monqy: did you ever draw any more self portraits 20:47:51 I drew one of elliott and one of myself 20:47:56 and uh 20:48:00 one of nihilistdandy 20:48:00 can i have one 20:48:03 This looks some kind of strange 20:48:05 sure 20:48:06 DRAW ME DRAW ME 20:48:53 I'm a bit busy so it'll have to wait but 20:48:58 My attempt: http://codu.org/hats/random.php?sm 20:48:59 "maybe eventually I'll do it" 20:49:25 Phantom__Hoover: IMPRESSIVE 20:49:40 monqy: can i see the one ofe nihilistdandy 20:49:47 im good arte 20:49:55 can i see the one of elliott 20:50:03 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/dondy.png 20:50:06 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 20:51:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 20:51:59 Phantom__Hoover: ask for monqy"s self self portraite 20:52:05 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/monqy.png 20:52:26 Phantom__Hoover: never minde, monqy read your minde 20:52:46 its all those eyes 20:53:38 monqy: could you draw a self self portrait of me? or is that too many selves 20:54:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:54:13 dude he linked to one like 5 minutes ago 20:54:21 that was just a self portrait of shachaf 20:54:29 oh 20:54:31 damn eyes 20:54:36 I've only ever drawn a self self portrait of myself 20:54:58 in other words a self self self portrait 20:55:31 if it's of myself, it's every self potrait 20:55:39 it's also a self self self self self portrait 20:55:46 and self self self self self self portrait 20:56:06 eventually you'll get tired of putting self in front so you may wish to stop while you're ahead 20:56:20 oh 20:56:23 good thinkinge 20:58:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 20:58:09 > cycle "self " ++ "portrait" 20:58:11 "self self self self self self self self self self self self self self self... 20:58:27 a sad faite 20:58:28 @let self = fun "self" :: Expr -> Expr 20:58:29 Defined. 20:58:33 > fix self 20:58:34 self (self (self (self (self (self (self (self (self (self (self (self (sel... 21:10:15 data Declaration = Declaration Name [Token] Token deriving (Eq, Show); data Token = T_Name Name | T_Para Int | T_Num Int | T_String PoolString | T_List [Token] | T_Call Name [Token] | T_Enum TreeName | T_Lambda [Int] [Token] deriving (Eq, Show); Now I have [Declaration] what is best way to make the index of the blocks of different kind to be accessed easily? (The first Name of Declaration indicates the kind, not the name, of the block.) 21:11:26 (Note: Name, PoolString, and TreeName are all type synonyms for Word32) 21:27:17 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 21:28:37 -!- jfischoff has joined. 21:35:22 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 21:53:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:56:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:59:10 http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/weak-evidence-seizure 22:06:21 http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57428067-83/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now/ 22:22:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:23:05 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:28:00 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:39:28 Full moon tonight. 22:41:50 -!- nortti has joined. 22:43:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:44:03 yay. Freenode SASL script for irssi requires Crypt::OpenSSL::Bignum which of couse refuses to build correctly on my system 22:44:15 zzo38: tomorrow, i think 22:46:14 And I have confirmed that freenode intentionaly blocked my ISP fron using non-SASL connection 22:46:19 quintopia: In my timezone it is today. 22:46:51 zzo38: sometime between dusk here and dawn here :) 22:47:41 In GMT it is (Sun) 5/ 6/2012 3:35 Sun (Tau) Opp (Sco) Moon 22:48:18 In my timezone it is at 20:35 today 22:48:26 oh 22:48:35 it would be 22:35 here 22:48:37 hmm 22:48:41 my app is wrong then 22:48:49 or 22:48:59 Your app is wrong? What app is that? Maybe you misconfigured it? 22:49:07 this thing 22:49:34 it is called Luna 22:49:37 @time 22:49:38 Local time for nortti is Sun May 06 01:52:05 UTC+3.00 2012 22:49:38 it only has one setting 22:49:51 (northern or southern hemisphere) 22:50:43 Then get a better program, such as the UNIX "phase of moon" program, or Astrolog. 22:51:19 http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/7/8/9/127789.jpg?v=1 22:51:57 nortti, please stop pasting today's Cracked articles into the channel. 22:52:26 Phantom__Hoover: okay 22:52:27 Otherwise you will be shipped off to Guantanamo under UK anti-free speech legislation. 22:53:06 Phantom__Hoover: But I happen to live in finland 22:53:24 We'll invade you because we're so jealous of your free utopia. 23:00:34 Phantom__Hoover: by the way os there anything new going on in Airstrip One? 23:00:41 *is 23:01:05 Well we considered passing a motion to outlaw happiness for young, liberal 20somethings. 23:06:25 "It was during this age that most of the Finnish culture formed, like the Sauna, the Finnish cottage (mokki), hunting (metsastys) and drinking themselves to death due to depression(perjantai-ilta)." 23:10:38 "We're going to take a trip, way, way back to the prehistoric times of April 18, 2011: The day Apple claimed ownership of the rectangle." 23:11:15 I'd ask what, but really I don't want to know 23:11:16 so 23:11:17 nortti: hi 23:11:32 elliott: forgive me etc etc etc 23:11:44 monqy: hi 23:12:48 monqy: which one you don't want to know about 23:13:00 both 23:16:12 monqy: first one: perjantai-ilta means friday evening 23:17:03 Hey wow Minecraft finally eliminated seperate single-player. 23:26:07 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 23:26:18 monqy: hi 23:26:28 elliott: forgive monqy etc etc etc 23:28:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:29:30 http://cnet.com/news/57428067 23:31:44 zzo38: full moon was yesterday already 23:32:29 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:37:35 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:53:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:10 shachaf: indeed single DES is not a good thing to use 23:57:57 it looks like these people will sell you a device which brute forces DES in a day for $10,000: http://www.sciengines.com/ 23:59:29 there are so many other ways to screw up crypto; if brute force is a realistic attack for your system that's really pathetic 2012-05-06: 00:00:51 DES was probably less pathetic in the 1970s. 00:01:18 yes 00:01:37 i don't know why MIT can't switch now 00:01:38 kmc, Debian keys produced with that bug, would trying all possible keys be considered brute-force? 00:02:21 probably they have some legacy system that only does DES but i don't know what or how important it is 00:02:42 i think SIPB should force the issue by buying a DES cracker; they have too much money anyway 00:02:53 Sgeo: not for the purposes of my statement 00:02:57 the screwup there is Debian's patch 00:03:27 Does a device that brute-forces DES in a day really cost $10,000? 00:04:02 cheater__: Yesterday? But the full moon has not yet occurred. 00:05:36 looked full enough. 00:07:40 It isn't quite full. 00:09:22 shachaf: it's hard to find prices, but some places say $10k 00:09:30 i believe it anyway 00:09:35 -!- itidus22 has joined. 00:12:13 I mean that I would've expected it to be less. 00:12:20 But I don't have much of a reference point. 00:12:33 ah 00:12:34 (Other than "$250,000 in 1999, apparently".) 00:12:52 If you have a horoscope, you can see when the full moon is. There should be a line (called an aspect) between the sun and moon. If this line passes through the center of the chart, then it is full moon. The moon and sun move counterclockwise relative to the signs; the moon moves much faster. So depending on which side the aspect line misses the center, you can see the before/after full moon. 00:13:01 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:13:07 yeah 00:13:11 EFF's thingy used custom chips 00:14:11 zzo38: is there a bare eye way to discern a full and not-quite-full moon? 00:14:40 cheater__: I don't know if the difference is enough to see by a bare eye; you might need a telescope. 00:15:14 ok 00:15:36 thx 00:25:38 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:28:55 -!- itidus21 has joined. 00:29:23 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:31:45 phantom_hoover: URL, please. 00:31:54 Oh, he left. 00:32:25 hion 00:32:44 hachaf 00:35:29 You could use the UNIX "phase of moon" program if you have it, to tell you phase of moon. You could also use a program such as Astrolog to tell you the phase of moon and many more things (if you can understand what everything means). Most calendars also have phase of moon but those only indicate the date and not the time of day, so it may not be precise enough. 00:36:28 (Note: Astrolog has the ability to print calendars, but you cannot plot any other data on these calendars; only the month, days of week, and day numbers are being displayed!) 00:37:05 thion 00:37:56 heegan 00:52:12 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:55:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:57:52 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:01:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:18:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:27:56 -!- jfischoff has joined. 01:32:30 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 01:35:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:05:11 What is the bird for (\f g x -> f (g x) (g x))? 02:06:17 Rooster. 02:06:58 joke. 02:07:09 good joke 02:07:54 Rooster is only going to make some of us hungry. 02:14:31 I made it so that Warbler is a type for endomorphisms of any category and Starling is a type for endomorphisms of a Kleisli category of a monad on any category. 02:14:58 -!- calamari has joined. 02:21:15 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:23:16 `log [e]xtend every extra extreme 02:23:49 No output. 02:23:52 `log [e]xtend every extra extreme 02:24:07 2012-04-26.txt:01:24:11: and finally, there is a game named Extend Every Extra, and as google told me another one named Extend Every Extra Extreme. And another game named Kingdom Hearts 3D subtitled Dream Drop Distance 02:27:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:48:57 Do you agree that the whole house system is stupid? 03:01:48 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 03:23:29 s/house //, yeah 03:24:25 -!- jfischoff has joined. 03:29:02 OK 03:54:36 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:06:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 04:06:12 Hello 04:12:48 OK 04:13:31 The time is not a time I like 04:13:42 Why? 04:13:57 Because it's inbetween 3 and 6 AM 04:14:40 What house is the sun at? 04:15:02 Number 14? 04:15:11 I don't actually know what that means 04:15:22 No, I mean the houses on a horoscope; they only go up to 12. 04:15:50 Well, I have no idea 04:16:21 (Houses numbered 1 to 6 are below the horizon; numbered 7 to 12 are above the horizon. The sun is at the cusp of the 10th house at solar noon.) 04:17:02 It looks like twilight at the moment? 04:17:13 But it's been twilight for a while 04:21:53 On my computer I can compute those things with a few different house systems. In my location, sun is in 6th house. 04:22:25 For twilight, maybe the sun is in first house? 04:25:02 If I give you my co-ordinates, will that help? 04:25:22 Yes. 04:25:51 54.9695 N, 2.0842 W 04:26:06 (approximately) 04:26:36 That is close enough 04:26:56 Yes the sun is in first house in that location 04:26:56 The approximation is in accuracy, not precision 04:26:58 Okay 04:27:23 It is still close enough for most purposes. 04:28:22 Could I have just said "55N, 2W"? 04:28:59 Taneb: The program I have expects two decimal places, and the coordinates of a city in a map should be close enough. 04:29:12 Okay 04:38:40 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 04:38:58 i was pondering yesterday that it would be interesting to me to have a number that was either: integer a + 0, or integer a + 0 > b > 1 .. written like 3 or 3.f where f stood for fraction 04:40:09 since i will get told off no matter which incorrect notation i use, i tried my best 04:41:05 so, normally i might have 4 numbers: 2, 5.3, 7, 3.11 but i would now have them as: 2, 5.f, 7, 3.f 04:41:36 or probably even leaving the decimal off altogether 04:42:26 Some house systems are Placidus, Campanus, and Regiomontanus. 04:43:11 (There is also Whole, but Whole house system is very stupid so don't use it.) 04:52:28 -!- jfischoff has joined. 05:34:18 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 05:34:24 This week’s electronics lectures have a promising start: http://imm.io/oobP 05:50:49 zzo38: have you ever played stratego? 05:58:13 So. There's a way to stick 364 bytes in a Twitter message. 05:58:15 How, you ask? 05:58:24 Easy. Encode base 2^21-1. 05:59:04 Twitter's message limit is in codepoints, not bytes. 05:59:18 https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/the_1st_international_longest_tweet 06:00:45 Oh, dear, you can use UTF-8 that doesn't map to code points. 06:01:22 I would have thought it would be characters, not codepoints 06:01:37 Taneb: It's not. If it's characters East Asia is screwed. 06:01:46 because they would perform normalization server-side? 06:01:54 kmc: Kay, true. 06:01:54 that's plausible but not what I would expect 06:02:16 quintopia: I have played some similar things. 06:02:24 zzo38: kriegsspiel? 06:02:48 how many copies of U+FDFA 'ARABIC LIGATURE SALLALLAHOU ALAYHE WASALLAM' can you tweet :) 06:03:11 that one probably doesn't normalize out to basic letters 06:03:19 under whatever twitter would use 06:03:29 So, the upper bound is... 538 bytes? 06:03:37 but there are some situations where single codepoints will expand dramatically 06:04:52 pikhq_: is there a way to print a message longer than usual so that it will display correctly on the twitter site? 06:05:13 lb((2^31-1)^139)/8 that is. 06:06:20 quintopia: I have once played a chess variant known as kriegspiel. 06:06:33 zzo38: how hard was it? did you win? 06:06:56 Of course, if their UTF-8 parsing is still more naive you might be able to get more in. 06:06:58 I forget. 06:07:15 Maybe they let you use an unbound number of continuation bytes? :) 06:08:11 But I also know about Luzhanqi (which is a Chinese kind of Stratego game) 06:13:55 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:18:34 "Assembling service pack", says Windows. 06:18:47 I like to think they write it in assembly and distribute the source code. 06:39:34 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:40:03 -!- jfischoff has joined. 06:45:34 zzo38: i think one of the biggest problems in game design is that sometimes people think there are rules to follow they can rely on, and other times people think there are no rules 06:47:49 i'll have a second shot at saying that: game designers are subject to the following wiki cut and paste: 06:47:53 "At a group or community level, the conventional levels of significance or salience are slowly embedded in the sign systems and culture, and they cannot arbitrarily be changed." 06:50:31 Like I still don't understand why platform games are fun, but due to convention it is difficult to think about 2d games in other ways. 06:53:29 5 fucking hours, and Windows is installed. 06:53:40 And I still don't have a C compiler! 06:55:17 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:55:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:01:34 itidus21: The rules of game design are whatever you design the rules to be. And then, if you don't like it, adjust it until it is better. 07:02:11 pikhq_: Yes, that is the problem of Windows; it lacks many important programs as standard. 07:02:53 zzo38: Not the only one. 07:03:06 Probably not even the most significant problem. 07:03:20 pikhq_: Yes; there are many other problems too. 07:03:22 Probably the most significant problem is how stupifyingly hard it is to dev for. 07:03:58 yeah, even though free tools exist, a lot of them don't work as well as MSVC 07:04:02 like for anything OpenGL 07:04:16 if you're just doing basic stuff though, Dev-C++ is a pretty easy way to get mingw set up 07:04:20 and an okay IDE 07:04:27 kmc: And MSVC itself doesn't work tolerably for C. 07:04:34 nb: all my information about windows dev is 5+ years out of date 07:04:36 pikhq_: oh? 07:04:44 kmc: They last touched it in the 90s. 07:04:57 true, they don't even implement all of C99 07:04:57 Besides which, unless you're going to use a higher-level language, you're stuck with the Win32 API. 07:05:11 Which is evidence in favor of the nonexistence of God. 07:05:25 They don't even implement C90 perfectly. 07:05:39 from what i recall, Win32 API is pretty bad, but POSIX is no picnic either 07:05:42 Though admittedly, that's just because of a couple weird edge cases. 07:06:18 POSIX is rough. Win32 is designed by monkeys on typewriters. 07:06:34 i hear the Windows kernel interface is pretty nice, if undocumented 07:06:47 itidus21: In addition, I do not completely understand that wiki cut and paste. 07:06:47 Win32 contains the letter s a few dozen times, and some monkey piss? 07:06:58 because unlike Linux they break compatibility whenever they like 07:07:15 Linux has a *lot* of syscalls which are special cases of other syscalls 07:07:50 int CALLBACK WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, LPSTR lpCmdLine, int nCmdShow) 07:08:09 what does CALLBACK do? 07:08:10 How do you make the *entry point itself* seem horrible? 07:08:24 that's not so horrible 07:08:30 kmc: It's one of the calling convention specifiers. 07:08:36 which one, though 07:09:50 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:10:23 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:10:49 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:11:00 Dammit this is impossibly hard to find. 07:11:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:12:20 It's odd that one of C's main criticisms has became standard in many programming languages 07:12:24 Namely, = vs == 07:13:28 that's not one of C's main criticisms 07:13:51 Worse still, just by not using those *stupid* typedefs it could look nicer: int WinMain(void *h_instance, void *h_previnstance, char *cmdline, int cmd_show) 07:14:49 Shame that junk's there because Win16. 07:15:20 kmc, it's the criticism of C that I hear most often 07:15:45 Where it would've been more like int WinMain(void __long * h_instance, void __long *h_previnstance, char __long *cmdline int cmd_show) 07:16:57 Also, some moron liked his Hungarian. 07:20:38 hikhq_ 07:21:28 Hi. 07:21:43 Taneb: that's because people are idiots and can't look past trivial syntactic matters to the things which actually make a language good or bad 07:22:22 also it's easy to have an opinion about syntax, and there's no objective right/wrong answer 07:22:33 Except we can all agree Malbolge is bad. 07:22:48 Anything less than Malbolge, though? Yeaaah. 07:23:13 if you voice an opinion about semantics or types or implementation or security, someone can actually refute your claim with objective fact 07:23:49 kmc: In some cases it might depend what kind of opinion they are, too? 07:23:57 (Like, I mean, more specific than what you said) 07:23:59 though the opposite extreme is dumb as well 07:24:21 programming language design is largely a user interface problem, and syntax *is* important 07:25:10 Just easy to bikeshed on. 07:25:21 Though, any UI problem is. 07:26:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:26:59 yeah 07:29:31 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:29:41 i think the spelling of = and == is probably below the level that makes a big difference even from a UI / UX perspective 07:30:11 stuff like having consistent syntax, uncluttered syntax, that's a big deal 07:30:26 = and == are conventional enough by now that I don't really care 07:30:42 = versus <- causes loads of confusion in Haskell, but it's not like there's an existing convention to appeal to 07:30:55 =/== bugs can be a big deal when you can use = in expressions like in C 07:31:11 /= in Haskell is a bit weirder. 07:31:34 monqy: true, but it's easy enough for a compiler to warn about those 07:31:38 kmc: How does = versus <- cause confusion in Haskell? 07:32:04 zzo38: they're both sort of like assignment in traditional imperative languages, but neither is actually that 07:32:19 the confusion is not actually syntactic 07:32:47 the confusion is that beginners don't have the concept of "let binding" and "monadic sequencing" 07:32:55 but it's phrased as "what's the difference between = and <-" 07:32:57 does it ever really help to overload operators when bugs will be caused by the differences? 07:33:05 Just that the syntax happens to look like the syntax for completely different semantics. 07:33:18 Though in-and-of-itself = and <- are quite reasonable choices. 07:33:21 kmc: The problem is solved by not using do-notation and list-comprehensions? 07:33:28 zzo38: maybe 07:33:37 But = just means to specify the definition of something 07:33:39 you still have to explain how = in let/where is not an assignment 07:33:55 also in practice people will see tons of code that uses "do" and list comprehensions 07:34:00 you can't just ignore them 07:34:09 in general, does not knowing what any piece of a program does always lead to bugs :D 07:34:11 itidus21: i recommend writing code without bugs instead 07:34:33 I recommend writing in /bin/cat. 07:34:47 that language has a simple quine 07:34:56 or, in other words, does writing code with side effects always result in bugs? 07:35:17 So does shell. 07:35:23 kmc: Sure, a lot of codes will use them; but you do not have to use them even if another code does. 07:35:43 zzo38: but you have to understand them if you want to read existing haskell code 07:35:43 crackers never seem to run out of exploits 07:35:48 including any of the popular books 07:35:55 and that's really essential if you want to learn the language 07:36:02 (unless the null file happens to be a valid executable on your system) 07:36:22 a "cracker" is someone who breaks into computers, not to be confused with a "hacker", which is someone who cares a lot about what Paul Graham and ESR write 07:37:20 kmc: Yes, that is right; you should understand the features of existing programs. 07:37:42 but do hackers call vulnerabilities in programs "exploits", and write code which makes use of said "exploits"? 07:38:44 itidus21: I suppose it might sometimes be the case; but features of the program might not necessarily be security vulnerabilities 07:38:46 by which i mean, a bug which only matters when someone intentionally invokes it 07:39:51 i imagine that you wouldn't get many bugs in pure functional code 07:40:02 itidus21: you'd fit right in in #haskell 07:40:12 you should go there and ask them "does writing code with side effects always result in bugs?" 07:40:13 I don't really know if such things really are bugs which only matters when someone intentionally invokes it 07:41:14 verily, one might say the maintenance part of the software development lifecycle is due to side-effects 07:41:30 Verily. 07:41:58 Clearly there are no bugs in the software that is never ran. 07:42:16 itidus21: basically, if your program typechecks, it's fairly certain to be doing what it's supposed to do 07:42:26 * pikhq_ for i in /bin/* /usr/bin/*;do ln -sf /dev/null $i;done 07:42:50 Knuth once said "Beware of bugs in the following program; I have only proven it correct, not tried it" 07:42:58 especially functions of type [Char] -> [Char]. 07:43:14 Yeah! What could that possibly do? 07:43:37 well theres a malware side-effect 07:43:39 zzo38: *proved 07:43:45 Clearly it can't be anything *but* a perfectly correct C-to-Brainfuck compiler. 07:43:49 itidus21: the bonzy buddy theorem, yes. 07:43:53 bonzi? 07:43:56 it installs a rootkit 07:43:58 pikhq_: Well, it is certainly wrong 07:44:00 pikhq_: there you go 07:44:09 somewhere between [Char] and [Char] 07:44:56 itidus21: That is why they have Safe Haskell 07:45:20 So that you cannot install a rootkit somewhere between [Char] and [Char] 07:45:23 what if someone calls unsafeExecuteBonziBuddyExe 07:45:38 in c (which is basically all i know) char stuff(char a) { install_rootkit(); return a; } >:-) 07:45:51 unsafeExecuteBonziBuddyExe :: () -> () 07:46:05 -!- monqy has left. 07:46:12 oops 07:46:14 bonqy 07:46:22 stuff = unsafePerformIO install_rootkit `seq` id 07:46:23 There's no channel like #esoteric. 07:47:06 Oh dear. 07:47:19 Jamie Oliver and Steven Gerrard have joined forces. 07:47:23 This cannot bode well. 07:47:27 have they joined bodies? 07:47:29 itidus21: Yes, you can od that, but even in C, you could have the operating system deal with what you are doing such as having things to sandbox the program or to trace system calls or whatever 07:47:56 who are these people 07:48:34 BBC News‎ - 6 hours ago 07:48:35 Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver and England footballer Steven Gerrard are calling on the government to fight obesity through cookery teaching in ... 07:48:37 first hit 07:48:38 google it 07:48:41 "what's google" 07:48:58 google is a search engine which you access with the URL http://www.google.com 07:49:12 worse c code might be .. char add(char a, char b) {unsigned int c,d,e; c=(unsigned int)a; b=(unsigned int)d; e=c+d; a=(char)e; return a; } 07:49:21 kmc: What would you think, my opinion that such features of Haskell such as do-notation and so on should be macros rather than built-in; what would you think? 07:49:30 that's not obfuscated 07:49:44 zzo38: i would like that 07:49:53 i'd like to have a macro system powerful enough to do these things 07:49:57 itidus21: Why, that's isomorphic to the Haskell code "foo = unsafeLaunchTheMissiles"! 07:49:58 as long as it's not also terrible 07:50:15 Oh, wait, no. 07:50:25 I'm stupid: all variables actually do get initialised there. 07:50:28 i was at a job interview last wednesday, and they gave me fizzbuzz, i solved it by concatenating strings, and outputting it in the end. it was argued that use of a variable to hold the final output string was obfuscation and the code became unmanageable. 07:50:33 That's merely bad. 07:50:36 int main() { printf((char*) 0xGOATSE); } 07:50:44 pikhq_: What about d? 07:50:45 kmc: Myself too, it is why I wanted to make up the working group for new "Ibtlfmm" programming language, to make these and other features; perhaps we can help 07:50:52 what's it stand for? 07:50:54 shachaf: Oh, blah, sure enough. 07:50:55 kmc: are you able to solve the fizzbuzz problem 07:50:58 pikhq_: ya.. the main problem with it is the function being named add 07:51:06 kmc: I would think that is not a valid C code, it won't compile, isn't it? 07:51:07 shachaf: Why, that *is* identical to unsafeLaunchTheMissiles. 07:51:13 kmc: it is a very prominent problem in computer science 07:51:21 npikhq_ 07:51:39 cheater__: you should have given them a solution which uses each of the GoF Design Patterns 07:51:42 cheater__: If by "computer science" you mean "interviews that seek to eliminate people with truly gross incompetence". 07:51:57 if they don't get the joke, walk out immediately 07:52:09 kmc++ 07:52:10 if they do get the joke, cockslap them for being smug elitists and walk out 07:52:13 kmc: actually on friday i was considering if you could make a language where Singleton and MVC are the only two basic data structures, and there are some simple operations between them 07:52:18 kmc+=kmc 07:52:18 and if it would be touring-complete 07:52:45 tourette-complete 07:52:48 cheater__: Put something on esolang wiki if you have ideas about that 07:53:03 > map succ "Haskell" 07:53:03 "Ibtlfmm" 07:53:07 cheater__: I hope you don't want to work at that place that gave you fizzbuzz. 07:53:18 kmc = kmc↑↑↑G 07:53:44 kmc: i started to get a hint of it when i learned that the best assembly language programmers basically know all the side effects of all the instructions 07:53:48 I mean, really, giving a shit about it beyond "is this person less qualified than the average janitor?"? 07:53:50 no they wanted to pay much below the standard rate 07:53:54 asking fizzbuzz does not necessarily indicate that they're idiots 07:54:02 but it does indicate that they're casting something of a wide net 07:54:05 also they didn't have AC 07:54:06 kmc: Computable functions are passé. 07:54:18 with full-height glass walls 07:54:20 at which point, i don't really see why assembly language is so valuable 07:54:20 true 07:54:35 which means you end up being a roast chicken in june and august 07:54:46 kmc: Fizzbuzz only really tells me that they happen to have idiots coming in asking for jobs. 07:54:52 kmc = fix (\i → Σ(i)) 07:55:02 ok i should have wrote fix Σ 07:55:03 i don't particularly look forward to sitting in a room with four sweating computer programmers 07:55:05 itidus21: But assembly language can be good for program for only a specific computer; for other programs you shouldn't use assembly language 07:55:06 Well, except they then gave a damn about how it's implemented. 07:55:10 haha cheater__ 07:55:17 kmc: Too mch time away from #haskell! 07:55:20 What's Σ? 07:55:23 pikhq_: i think everyone offering a job has some idiots coming in 07:55:26 busy beaver function 07:55:27 is the one i meant 07:55:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:32 perhaps assembly language programs should be specified in terms of the intended side-effects 07:55:39 kmc: can i see your beaver? 07:55:40 Ah. 07:55:44 like .. "i want to swap this flag" 07:55:45 good function 07:55:47 And fizzbuzz is quite handy for finding those idiots. 07:55:54 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:55:55 i'm not sure they're idiots exactly 07:55:59 they also gave me some other thing 07:56:02 they're people trying to scam their way into a job they aren't qualified for 07:56:07 a thousand word text to sort by frequency 07:56:10 they might be perfectly intelligent 07:56:12 Kay, true. 07:56:13 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:28 i imagine a lot of the people caught by fizzbuzz are smarter than average people with useless liberal arts degrees who can't pay rent anymore 07:56:34 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:56:38 Damned shame programming ability *isn't* identical to intelligence. :P 07:56:52 i did this in the simplest way possible and the guy gave me shit that i didn't use some sort of hashing algorithm to keep count during a single iteration 07:56:53 pikhq_: what do you mean? my ability to write PHP code proves I'm a world-class olympic rockstar genius 07:57:07 And, given some of the code I've seen, at best only weakly correlated. :/ 07:57:10 you know you learn a lot about the company in an interview 07:57:17 maybe more than they learn about you 07:57:21 and then i told him that it still wouldn't have been perfect and started describing to him the ultimate way of doing it char by char 07:57:25 using a trie 07:57:28 ℙℍℙ 07:57:30 and he bailed out 07:57:31 basically each assembly language instruction seems to be a set of register manipulations not implied by the mnemonic in question 07:57:38 shachaf: my eyes, i can see forevenr 07:57:53 If you get asked to do a fizzbuzz program at an interview, do they tell you which one's fizz and which one's buzz? 07:58:11 actually they did "hip" and "hop" on mine 07:58:21 What if they're *both* fizz, man? 07:58:33 Then it would be called fizzfizz 07:58:45 And you'd have to do it in Befunge 07:58:47 arguably you get more information because the company interviews more people than the number of places you interview at 07:59:03 and so their interview performance is more of a well-worn expression of their identity 07:59:06 Haneb 07:59:15 i have definitely learned more about them than they about me 07:59:23 it was some privately-owned startup 07:59:42 owned by some aging guy who put his family's savings into it 07:59:59 i'm kind of hoping that next time I need to get a job, I can just be like "look at all this stuff i made [url]" and skip the fizzbuzz stuff 08:00:01 ended up buying a lot of stylish furniture for the office 08:00:14 If you program assembly languages codes you should learn the effect of the instructions. 08:00:14 kmc: for bonus points, make the url fizzbuzz 08:00:20 haha yes 08:00:32 i'll be sure to put up a gratuitous implementation of fizzbuzz too 08:00:35 zzo38: but... i don't like the fact that theres no shortcuts 08:00:52 like a version in AVR assembly which uses self-modifying code 08:01:14 why can't side-effects be friendly ... 08:01:15 fpga 08:01:21 yes 08:01:25 but write it in verilog, not vhdl 08:01:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:02:25 no, a board made with wire wrapped 7400 series DIP quad NAND gates 08:03:03 dip is for pussies, you want to do bga with a toaster 08:03:03 i kind of want to build a relay computer 08:03:08 no you don't 08:03:09 i wonder if i can get cheap relays somewhere 08:03:14 kmc: Have you ever been asked actual fizzbuzz-style interview questions? 08:03:25 I think that's mostly a myth. 08:03:31 i don't think so 08:03:40 kmc applies for jobs much finer than i 08:04:04 the closest i got was "implement fib(n) recursively, then iteratively, and write the time complexity of each" 08:04:10 in C++ 08:04:16 the first part of which is fizzbuzz level 08:05:07 yeah, i get the stable boy jobs 08:05:32 at the finance company we had a written programming test which everyone got as the first thing in the day 08:05:38 and this was the first question 08:06:16 was it the idea of a Big Swinging Dick 08:06:17 "write this recursively" seems like a strange thing to say, as opposed to "write this". 08:06:29 heh 08:06:32 cheater__: Liar's Poker? 08:06:52 you're adept 08:07:03 yeah after i accepted the job, they sent me a copy of that book 08:07:18 "efficiently" is a reasonable constraint, I guess, but "do this recursively and iteratively" seems dangerously close to a game of "guess what I'm thinking". 08:07:20 did they stick "training manual" on the front cover 08:07:26 haha 08:07:35 did you finish it 08:07:40 yeah 08:07:52 i think the best small companies try to hire through personal connections 08:08:03 no they hire through python.org/jobs 08:08:06 so they know everyone coming in can at least pass fizzbuzz 08:08:10 this doesn't scale so well 08:08:19 if you think so then you've never relied on friends for doing a job 08:08:26 you end up severely disappointed 08:08:39 like you hope each person you get expands your network a bit 08:08:58 everyone at ksplice has pretty much the same friends and so this didn't really work 08:09:06 they do, but the people working for you are for a reason not the people hiring newcomers 08:09:12 it's because they don't know how to 08:09:15 they hired like the entire MIT computing club as interns 08:09:24 It's just a shortcut anyway. 08:09:27 so this guy they'll rave about, he's just as likely to be good as he is to be weak 08:09:45 hm 08:09:47 You don't get more information from it than you would from asking some write-code-which-also-happens-to-be-interesting question, you just get it faster. 08:09:47 explain? 08:09:59 shachaf: that's true 08:10:08 yeah it works in places with very strong compsci communities 08:10:09 but not in usual places 08:10:09 with the usual run of the mill digital carpenters 08:10:39 shachaf: actually we moved to an online programming test which they could take before even the phone screen 08:11:04 @ping 08:11:04 pong 08:11:09 which theoretically saved a lot of time by going asynchronous 08:11:22 in a place where people see computer programming as just a job, they'll be less likely to form connections based on the quality of someone's understanding 08:11:28 the pecking order is decided by other things 08:11:36 you can easily cheat on an online test, but it only wastes their time and ours 08:11:53 in a place like a good university everyone will be looking up to the best h5x4rz 08:12:06 h sexars 08:12:15 kmc: If your plan is to cheat your way through the whole thing somehow, you'll probably start with the online test. 08:12:19 "Joy of joys" now I'm getting junk SMS 08:12:22 hsex is like sex but better because it's in haskell 08:12:28 shachaf: true 08:12:39 Worse, it's phishing junk SMS. 08:12:50 From shady-ass companies apparently in Panama 08:13:01 pikhq_, at least you can pretend to have friends! 08:13:03 pikhq_: WAL-MART CUSTOMER: U have won a free $100 gift card! 08:13:17 speaking of U 08:13:18 shachaf: BESTBUY, actually. 08:13:21 i should get going 08:13:54 And another one saying "we are giving away free overstock iPad 2's" 08:14:03 it was nice chatting with you all, pikhq_ shachaf and itidus21 and kmc and Taneb and zzo38 08:14:15 nice chatting with you cheater__ 08:14:24 we should definitely arrange a repeat 08:14:31 you know where to find me :) 08:14:31 i'll have my PA call your PA 08:14:45 * shachaf wonders where to find kmc 08:14:58 shachaf: Mid-Cambridge, obviously 08:15:03 Bye, cheater__ 08:15:05 berkeley basement dungeons 08:15:14 bbl 08:15:29 Nice place, Mid-Cambridge. 08:15:57 I should move there. 08:16:46 you could work for Ksploracle 08:16:52 or ITAoogle 08:17:06 I thought big companies were evil. 08:17:19 or Akamanotboughtbygooglejustyet 08:17:31 maybe 08:17:33 Did the company interview ever ask you questions, such as, how much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? 08:17:40 not i 08:17:46 -!- lexande has joined. 08:17:50 lexande! 08:17:52 hexande 08:18:05 And, how many different colors of socks do you own? 08:18:07 octande 08:18:46 all my socks are gray/grey and need to be washed 08:19:14 zzo38: How much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? 08:19:45 shachaf: did I tell you about my idea for a disruptive mobile social local web application platform? 08:19:49 it's called SockSwap 08:20:11 kmc: Did you figure out a way to make a non-reverse-engineerable lock yet? 08:20:13 you know, everyone has different sorts of socks, sometimes an odd number of one kind 08:20:31 so you photograph your sock drawer using our iPhone™ app 08:20:45 and it maches you with other people in your area who also have one of that kind of sock 08:21:03 which provides a platform for social engagement (coffee, fucking, founding of web startups) 08:21:09 kmc: I saw a Vietnamese soup place called iPho. 08:21:12 All my socks are white with dark blue/black on the heels, toes, and with bands at the top 08:21:13 -_- 08:21:15 Except the 'o' was an almost-Apple-logo. 08:21:15 shachaf: really? 08:21:18 wow 08:21:29 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:21:39 Is it weird that I find it satisfying to report shit like that to the FCC? 08:22:02 FCC? 08:22:06 Downtown Mountain View has a frozen yogurt shop called "yoogl". 08:22:08 not, like USPTO? 08:22:23 It used to have Google-colored-and-fonted letters. 08:22:28 They changed that at one point, though. 08:22:38 kmc: Junk text messages and cell phone telemarketing. 08:22:44 Oh. 08:22:48 pikhq_: Can you report mine too? 08:22:50 http://s3-media1.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/gVdl2TZJWcDEJj2yvLjAgw/l.jpg 08:22:56 pikhq_: oh, I thought you meant iPho 08:22:58 thikhq_ in advance. 08:23:12 kmc: Yep, that was the logo. 08:23:20 Complete violation of FCC regulations, and companies that do it and get caught (i.e. reported) get fined obscene amounts. 08:23:22 so what other restaurants can be named this way 08:25:25 kmc: How well do you know category theory and other mathematical things? 08:25:36 Facebok choy 08:25:39 that's pretty weak 08:26:31 Bing Crab 08:27:01 Kiwikipedia 08:27:11 ipad thai 08:27:27 blexande 08:27:53 excuse me? 08:28:03 instagram crackers 08:28:21 bless you, lexande 08:29:09 Apple pie 08:29:28 shachaf: Blants. 08:34:13 If I make company, it is private so that nobody can purchase it and then mix it up too much 08:54:06 Do you know how to write a file for Internet Quiz Engine? (The documentation says that certain commands can only be used in certain areas, but this isn't precisely correct. Any command can be used in any area, although they won't necessarily do what you expect.) 08:55:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:59:42 For example, the ? = ; commands are actually all equivalent, except that ? accepts an optional skip condition based on the answer to the previous question, and neither ? nor = will be skipped in a false conditional. 09:10:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:10:34 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:24:12 I feel awful 09:24:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:35:59 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:36:47 -!- quintopia has joined. 09:42:24 Taneb: :( 09:42:27 why / how? 09:43:45 Tired and hungry 09:44:01 Because I'm tired I don't feel like eating, and because I'm hungry I can't sleep 09:48:41 oh 09:48:42 that blows 10:00:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:06:49 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:10:22 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:12:25 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 10:18:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:36:29 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:39:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:57:16 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 11:31:19 -!- impomatic has joined. 11:42:18 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:48:00 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:04:44 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:04:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:35:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:37:12 hm, do C++ compilers have a special rule to treat "main" as extern "C"? 12:38:08 Yes 12:38:37 Or to emit a separate main function which calls the C++ main, or whatever. 12:39:02 "main" isn't the actual entry point 12:39:10 yeah 12:39:15 a c++ program starts with c++ main, exactly how that happens is unspecified magic afaik 12:39:25 i guess the C++ runtime library could arrange to call a C++ name-mangled main 12:39:28 The entry point does initialization and teardown before calling your name() 12:39:32 but that's not how g++ does it apparently 12:39:38 er, teardown comes after obviously 12:39:56 IIRC gcc likes to generate the entry point as _start or something 12:40:06 That stuff could be added to your main() instead of being in a separate entry point. 12:40:08 well gcc doesn't generate _start 12:40:12 it's part of the C runtime library 12:40:25 Well fine "the gnu tools" 12:40:34 Combined 12:41:00 kmc: main isn't allowed to be recursive in C++, partly because of this sort of thing 12:41:02 C runtime library and/or libc 12:41:06 ais523: interesting 12:43:12 if main were the entry point, returning from main would not work 12:43:14 at least on Linux 12:44:21 it would work on DOS 12:44:34 stack starts out with a 0 on it, and there's an exit instruction at memory location 0, with .com files 12:45:08 cute 12:45:29 Compilers could emit the appropriate exit code in place of returns from main. 12:45:45 Deewiant: another reason to make it not recursive 12:45:47 Deewiant: but then you wouldn't be able to call main from elsewhere 12:45:54 which is allowed in C? 12:46:00 kmc: it is, but not in C++ 12:46:01 i'm not sure if it's allowed actually 12:46:03 ok 12:46:10 i haven't seen it done except in IOCCC entries 12:46:22 but i'm sure there is "legitimate" code somewhere that does it 12:46:29 probably to re-enter the options parser 12:47:02 nah, it'd be really bad style, you should just use a wrapper function for that 12:47:02 there is C++ code at google which is like void Foo::reset() { this->~Foo(); new (this) Foo; } 12:47:05 so anything's possible 12:47:23 ais523: sure, it's really bad style, but I'm sure someone has done it and thought themselves quite clever for it 12:47:42 kmc: well, that code is just a bizarre way to call the destructor then constructor, isn't it? 12:47:48 yeah 12:48:28 i'm no C++ language lawyer but I'm pretty sure it's allowed (maybe not if reset is virtual) 12:48:38 however it's bizarre 12:48:49 uses a couple of C++ features that many professional C++ programmers don't know about 12:49:01 kmc: if reset is virtual and the destructor is not virtual, you'd be asking for trouble 12:49:10 yeah 12:49:26 and I can only see one rarely known feature there (placement new) 12:49:32 what's the other one? calling a destructor manually? 12:49:36 yeah 12:49:46 i guess even if you aren't aware this can be done, the syntax is what you expect 12:49:48 it's just a function, I don't see why you /couldn't/ do that 12:49:53 right 12:50:05 although it's nontrivial to parse, there are larger issues in C++ parsing 12:50:15 (did you know that C++ 11 allows you to use >> to close two < brackets?) 12:50:21 yeah 12:50:38 did you know that there are valid C++03 programs which are still valid under this rule but behave differently? 12:50:40 154702 kmc there is C++ code at google which is like void Foo::reset() { this->~Foo(); new (this) Foo; } 12:50:46 no, don't fucking use that 12:50:47 no 12:51:04 kmc: no, that's hilarious; what does it use to hide the > > from the C++11 version? 12:51:34 there's an example in http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1757.html 12:51:40 std::cout << (Y>::c >::c>::c) << '\n'; 12:52:02 also, hmm, the syntax for placement new is really weird, you'd think this->Foo() would be more natural 12:52:17 that's kind of weird too 12:52:19 because placement new is not the opposite of any sort of delete, it just calls the constructor with an arbitrary pointer 12:52:22 perhaps it'd need a cast 12:52:39 you're calling a method on something that isn't yet a valid pointer to an object of that type 12:52:46 also, you can overload operator new with any argument type you like 12:52:47 I wonder if c++ allows mysterious invisible dependencies on this that make destroying this illegal even if you don't use this in the source before reconstructing 12:52:58 kmc: if it's not a virtual method, there's clearly no intrinsic problem with that at all 12:53:28 if you have a nonvirtual method foo and a variable obj of type Obj, obj->foo(x,y) compiles to Obj::foo(obj,x,y) 12:53:36 there's no difference between this and any of the other arguments 12:53:45 Pool pool; new (pool) Foo; 12:53:55 makes a lot more sense syntactiaclyl than pool->Foo(); 12:54:14 let's say if your compiler copies all code from the class into constructed objects, and clears out the code when destroying an object 12:54:15 ais523: that's an implementation detail, in a sense 12:54:30 kmc: right, but it may be one that's implied by the language 12:54:33 i agree that usually you can call ((Foo*) 0)->bar() if bar is a non-virtual method 12:54:53 like the stack in C (auto variables in C have stack-like semantics, so even if you're not storing them on a stack, you have to store them on something that works like a stack) 12:55:06 or you know ((Foo*) malloc(sizeof(Foo)))->bar() 12:55:10 does the standard require this to be non-null in a cal? 12:55:14 *call 12:55:21 but I don't think that's a reasonable syntax for placement new 12:55:27 because it violates expectations 12:55:31 but it would be hardly the first C++ feature to do so 12:55:44 ais523: don't know 12:55:47 kmc: well, to me placement new violates expressions, because I expect new, in some sense, to be the opposite of delete 12:55:53 and placement new isn't the opposite of anything 12:55:58 *violates expectations 12:56:08 you can overload operator delete as well 12:56:22 and operator new, can't you? 12:56:24 if you're implementing a memory pool, you would do both 12:56:46 except nobody knows about this feature or can be bothered to use it 12:56:48 only a memory pool for a specific class 12:56:58 that's probably not the most common application 12:56:58 ais523: no, the overload returns a void* 12:57:14 oh, I see, you could overload it outside a class 12:57:22 http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/new/memory-pools.html 12:57:42 even overloading it within a class makes sense when you're taking an allocator as an argument to the constructor, I guess 12:57:58 I've seen an STL that does that (not sure if it was /the/ STL or some third-party one) 12:59:23 also some calling conventions pass "this" in a special way 12:59:41 the default calling convention in Visual C++ in fact 13:00:31 on x86, 'this' is passed in ECX and all other arguments are on the stack 13:00:48 i don't know if there's a rationale or if someone at microsoft was just hitting the crackpipe particularly hard that day 13:02:11 normally if passing arguments in registers, you have to come up with some complicated rule for deciding what goes where in all possible circumstances 13:02:17 "this always goes in ECX" is a pretty simple rule 13:02:22 ais523: by "/the/ STL" you mean SGI's reference implementation? 13:02:45 kmc: I was referring to APIs, so I mean the API specified by the standard 13:02:50 oh 13:03:07 whether or not constructors can take allocators as argument is definitely an API issue 13:03:11 STL containers usually take an optional template argument specifying the allocator to use 13:07:35 maybe the idea in thiscall is that methods frequently invoke other methods on the same object 13:07:44 often without doing much additional work 13:11:58 ais523: is there any reason you couldn't store C function activation records in a garbage-collected heap? 13:12:27 kmc: no, but it would have to have stack semantics, for determining what copy of the variable to look at 13:12:58 there's nothing forcing it to /be/ a stack, it just has to /act like/ a stack 13:13:07 which means that it's usable as a stack 13:13:48 many things are 13:14:22 for determining what copy of the variable to look at, you just have a register that points to the current activation frame 13:14:32 and you can CPS transform so that you never need to restore old values of that register 13:14:42 doing this for C is probably unreasonable, but is possible 13:15:13 i agree this is usable as a stack 13:15:25 so is a heap-allocated linked list, or a heap-allocated church-encoded linked list :) 13:18:15 I entirely agree that a heap-allocated church-encoded linked list could be used for C auto variables 13:18:22 but I would /still/ say that it's a stack 13:18:31 it's not a stack implemented in terms of an array, but it's still a stack 13:21:49 the other day I saw a bird that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck but isn't a duck 13:23:06 i think it was a loon 13:23:49 if you take 2 arbitrary measurements of thing X, and they match type Y, then thing X must be type Y 13:24:19 i apologize for the mistakes. 13:24:21 kmc: but how did you know it was not a duck, if it did everything like a duck? 13:24:36 because someone who knows more about birds than I told me so 13:24:50 you should have asked for more proof 13:24:58 it quacks like a duck but not *exactly* like a duck 13:25:01 such as duck dna? 13:25:05 the duck is in the details 13:25:54 BBC: 'A "supermoon", bigger and brighter than usual, is seen in the night sky as it comes closer to the Earth' 13:26:06 how much closer? 13:26:08 this is a really alarming headline if you assume that scientists have no idea why it happened 13:26:45 itidus21: over 9000 feet 13:26:45 as if i wasn't already alarmed by things 13:26:47 :P 13:28:05 what, 9000? 13:28:21 thats no moon 13:28:29 thats a space station 13:28:29 itidus21++ 13:29:05 ty ty 13:29:08 there is no dark side of the moon really 13:29:08 someone remind me the workaround for the /top tab-completion bug in irssi 13:29:12 matter of fact it's all dark 13:30:43 in a conspiracy theory lab, in a suburb far far away 13:31:01 plans are made about what the reptiles have dubbed the supermoon 13:31:47 -!- Vorpal has joined. 13:46:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:56:45 -!- nortti has joined. 13:57:20 Fuck yeah! Got sasl to work after disabling DH-BLOWFISH 14:03:42 `pastefirtunes 14:03:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastefirtunes: not found 14:03:57 `pastefortunes 14:04:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14206 14:05:22 i clicked the link and i didnt get any tunes :/ 14:05:30 i even went and pasted it 14:05:36 still no tunes appeared 14:05:41 stupid hackego 14:05:51 quintopia: paste fortunes 14:06:34 nortti: paste for tunes -______- 14:07:00 quintopia: so it takes paste and gives you tunes? 14:07:08 :D 14:07:15 no, but thatd be great 14:07:36 or other way around 14:08:09 no thatd be stupid 14:09:25 `pastefortunes 14:09:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20091 14:12:06 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:14:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:16:02 quintopia: what kind of daemon is thatd? 14:19:06 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:21:18 I'll give rep+ to the first one to decipher what this piece of python code does (lambda x: (lambda s,(x,y): ([(x[0],y[0])]+s(s,(x[1:],y[1:]))) if len(y)>0 else [])((lambda s,(x,y): ([(x[0],y[0])]+s(s,(x[1:],y[1:]))) if len(y)>0 else []),(x,x[1:]))) 14:21:53 Looks like zip 14:22:33 zip`ap`tail 14:22:55 zip`ap`tail? 14:23:03 > (zip`ap`tail) [1..10] 14:23:04 [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,6),(6,7),(7,8),(8,9),(9,10)] 14:23:16 ?quote aztec 14:23:17 quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail - the Aztec god of consecutive numbers 14:23:27 @rep+ Deewiant 14:23:27 Plugin `dummy' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 14:23:40 @rep 14:23:40 () 14:23:46 @rep nortti 14:23:46 nortti 14:23:57 @karma nortti 14:23:57 nortti has a karma of 1 14:24:04 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:24:07 @karma+ Deewiant 14:24:07 Deewiant's karma raised to 2. 14:25:50 Deewiant: is zip`ap`tail builtin in haskell? 14:25:56 ?ty zip 14:25:57 forall a b. [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 14:25:58 ?ty ap 14:25:59 forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 14:25:59 ?ty tail 14:26:00 forall a. [a] -> [a] 14:26:35 The only "builtin" part of that is the syntax, zip`ap`tail means ap zip tail 14:27:33 (Which means ap(zip,tail) or rather (ap(zip))(tail) in a language with C-style function call syntax.) 14:29:04 ?ty ap :: (c -> a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b) -- the relevant Monad instance expanded 14:29:05 forall c a b. (c -> a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> c -> b 14:41:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:41:49 hello guys 14:50:26 @karma AnotherTest 14:50:26 AnotherTest has a karma of 0 14:50:34 @karma+ AnotherTest 14:50:34 AnotherTest's karma raised to 1. 14:50:40 @karma- AnotherTest 14:50:40 AnotherTest's karma lowered to 0. 15:12:46 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:13:02 @karma nortti 15:13:02 nortti has a karma of 1 15:13:07 ooh. 15:13:19 @karma itidus21 15:13:19 itidus21 has a karma of 1 15:13:36 itidus21: what about my karma 15:13:57 no reason 15:36:34 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 15:36:47 -!- elliott has joined. 15:37:06 17:56:37: what language would you propose as an alternative? 15:37:06 17:56:44: to C++? C 15:37:06 17:57:13: well, it really depends on what you're using it for 15:37:07 17:57:14: Not really an alternative. 15:37:09 17:57:31: since C doesn't even check types 15:37:11 17:57:43: and also, it doesn't allow for user defined types 15:37:13 you're high 15:38:04 I meant user-defined types that have member functions 15:38:16 it has those, too 15:38:18 and C doesn't check types [properly] 15:38:22 yes, it does 15:38:25 AnotherTest: why is your nick AnotherTest 15:38:27 as much as C++ does 15:38:29 No idea. 15:38:39 Why is yours nortti? 15:38:43 there are minor differences in terms of const, and C++ has a safer version of casting 15:38:52 but that's it 15:39:01 elliott: let's first clarify which version of C we are talking about 15:39:07 ANSI? 15:39:09 C89, C99, doesn't matter one bit 15:39:17 basically applies to K&R too, if anyone still used it 15:39:19 elliott: Around a year ago you were going to hack some pty-related stuff into tup, but I'm not getting coloured output from clang, what's up! 15:39:21 oh, C11 is out too 15:39:23 C11 too! 15:39:33 Deewiant: I was? 15:39:33 well, define a type in C that has a member function? 15:39:47 struct type_in_c { void (*member_function)(int); }; 15:39:49 elliott: https://groups.google.com/group/tup-users/msg/b303970d79ed6edc 15:40:03 Deewiant: :( 15:40:05 Deewiant: Stupid archiving. 15:40:08 AnotherTest: I used nick nörtti in ohjelmointiputka.net but when I tried using it on ircnet when I wanted to join #ohjelmointiputka my own irc client crashed 15:40:18 Deewiant: I didn't do it, ask tup-users if anything's happened. :p 15:40:28 elliott: Presumably not :-P 15:40:30 so I used nortti and it just stuck 15:40:42 Deewiant: ISTR *something* happening along those lines. 15:41:14 nortti ah I see 15:41:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:41:41 ais523: wat: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BAM128&curid=3491&diff=32356&oldid=30896 15:42:01 hi elliott 15:42:04 hi ais523 15:42:05 elliott: I can't be bothered to ask, I'm just putting 'CC = clang -fcolor-diagnostics' in my Tupfile 15:42:22 Deewiant: Yeah, I think that might have been the solution. Or maybe I'm thinking of ninja. 15:42:25 it consists of? 15:42:35 elliott: looks like a test edit, more than anything else 15:42:37 AnotherTest: What? 15:42:41 or someone who doesn't understand English and thinks they do 15:42:44 I just rolled it back 15:42:59 I was going to revert it with a meaningful edit summary, but I suppose that works too :p 15:43:13 I'm pretty sure it's someone trying to fix the grammar, except they're not any good at it 15:43:15 elliott: It happened in ninja, at least (its bug report is the top Google result I've run into a couple of times now when wondering whether tup does it) 15:43:22 elliott: Should I use ninja? 15:43:22 Deewiant: Right. 15:43:28 elliott: I just noticed the edition, found I a little weird 15:43:32 *editing 15:43:38 Ah, right. 15:43:46 Deewiant: I dunno. I'd stick with tup. 15:43:52 Deewiant: With ninja, you need to write a script to generate your build script. 15:44:03 Usually in Python, since they have an outputting library for it. 15:44:21 It's kind of yucky. Good for things like Chrome where you need MAXIMUM SPEED and the build rules don't change often, since that's what it was designed for. 15:44:23 elliott: I asked you because you're the "DO THE ARROWS GO UPWARDS" guy when it comes to build systems 15:44:32 Deewiant: ninja's arrows do go upwards, though, yes. 15:44:43 And ninja supports multiple output files, which is what got me interested in it in the first place (for Haskell). 15:44:48 I have a patch in ninja! 15:45:20 Deewiant: I'd just stick with tup though. Especially since variants are coming. 15:45:30 What's the most minimal programming language existing? 15:45:40 (as in minimal typing to do a certain task) 15:45:58 AnotherTest: That is not really a meaningful question. 15:46:06 alright 15:46:10 let me attempt to refine 15:46:25 wtf? MIT Scheme says (eval '(+ 1 1)) is invalid 15:46:28 nvm I'll fail 15:46:32 nortti: It is. 15:46:36 You need to pass an environment too. 15:46:46 elliott: if I find a website that puts an in an URL and later omits a _ from the same URL, what should I assume? broken parser for a Markdown-like language? 15:46:54 (the was replacing a _) 15:47:03 ais523: Yes. 15:47:04 elliott: repl.it didn't require that 15:47:09 nortti: Then repl.it is broken. 15:47:17 elliott: That reminds me: re. variants, the thread on them currently ends with Mike asking for your thoughts. 15:47:18 Or, rather, has some implementation-specific extension. 15:47:21 Consult R5RS. 15:47:27 elliott: why is it not meaningful? 15:47:31 Deewiant: Yes, I have that email set as unread so I can reply to it. 15:47:39 AnotherTest: Because "a given task" is pretty vague. 15:47:45 ah I see 15:47:45 elliott: Alright, just checking. 15:47:57 (I wrote that before your parenthical; I interpreted "minimal" very differently beforehand, which kinda proved my point :P) 15:48:06 Deewiant: I guess I'll do it now, since you've prodded me. 15:48:11 ah 15:48:18 I also need to reply to Conor McBride :( 15:49:20 If you'd e-mail less, you'd have to reply less. 15:49:40 I hardly email at all! 15:49:41 which language allows the shortest implementation for an algorithm that solves the traveling-salesmen problem using a brute-fore approach without it being a built-in feature? 15:49:46 (better?) 15:50:00 Deewiant: Anyway, that's not strictly true. 15:50:15 AnotherTest: Define "built-in feature"... I could split the algorithm into two parts and give those one instruction each. 15:50:49 He probably means "existing language". 15:50:49 existing language anyway, I doubt any language has such a feature so just drop that last part 15:51:08 Also 15:51:14 Deewiant: That question is still probably impossible to answer, since you don't know what the shortest program for the task in any given language is. 15:51:16 I'm pretty sure you know what I mean 15:51:17 *don't (can't) 15:51:20 so just anwser 15:51:28 AnotherTest: It is not possible to answer. 15:51:33 Doubt it. 15:51:40 AnotherTest: Very well, you answer it then. 15:51:41 Maybe it's not possible for you. 15:51:56 I see you're still suffering from Dunning-Kruger. 15:51:57 I ask the question; it is thus only logical that I do not know the answer 15:52:18 Of course it's possible, just prove a minimum length in each language and then enumerate all programs up to that length. 15:52:31 (Okay, maybe the proof isn't so easy.) 15:52:46 let's not start about the physics guy who wasn't a physics guy again 15:52:47 Deewiant: FSVO enumerate that involves a human-written proof at each step. 15:53:00 because it's still clear that you suffer autism 15:53:04 lol 15:53:07 Go away already. 15:53:21 no thanks 15:53:26 I'm free to come here 15:53:27 elliott: Not at each step, only for each language. 15:53:32 I.e. before the enumeration. 15:54:09 AnotherTest: please don't insult people like that 15:54:15 I try not to 15:54:18 You failed. 15:54:23 Correct. 15:54:27 (If you really did try, you'd apologise afterwards.) 15:54:44 Well, no, because you sort of insulted me to 15:54:46 *too 15:54:55 you seem to make a habit of that every time I visit 15:55:04 You've only been here twice. 15:55:08 Anyway, whatever. 15:55:12 Yes, I have 15:55:21 but does that mean it can't be a habit? 15:55:23 -!- jfischoff has joined. 15:56:05 "The judge and attorneys have to question the child to determine the communication skills of the child and also question to determine if the child understands the difference between true and false, and will tell the truth." 15:56:17 why don't they do that with /adults/? 15:56:32 Because the judge and attorneys are adults. 15:57:34 that's about witnesses 15:57:47 I guess they get them to swear oaths, but I'm not sure everyone has respect for oaths 15:57:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:58:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:58:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 15:58:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:58:20 Bye ais523. Hi ais523. Bye ais523. Hi ais523. 15:58:25 OK, Unity has increased Konversation's capacity for bizarre typos quite a bit 15:58:37 ah unity 15:58:40 don't like it 15:58:41 both in opportunities, and bizarreness 15:58:46 that's why I don't use I guess 15:59:08 that was alt-nothing r, rather than alt-t r 15:59:08 You're on ubuntu? 15:59:14 yes 15:59:21 11.*? 15:59:23 I actually rather like unity, but some of the keybindings are unfortunate 15:59:26 12.04 15:59:29 oh 15:59:35 hmm, I wonder if I can change them? 15:59:39 Yes 15:59:45 * ais523 loads up compizconfig 15:59:50 It's possible to pick a custom keyboard layout I think 15:59:59 I dislike unity. All the bloat and inteface is horrible 16:00:00 Well at least I did it once in 10.04 16:00:19 I agree with nortti, my computer can't handle it properly 16:00:28 that was easy 16:00:43 now I have super-space rather than just super, and alt-super-space rather than just alt 16:00:52 should have done that earlier 16:01:00 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:01:15 AnotherTest: do you know my computer's specs? 16:01:19 nortti: unity, bloated? that doesn't fit my view of it 16:01:25 it seems more primitive than bloated 16:01:31 nortti: Unfortunately not 16:01:44 although I consider bloat a statement about features rather than load 16:01:53 if it's putting too much load on a system, that's simply a bug 16:01:57 ais523: really, with the menu that constantly flops in and out? 16:02:07 AnotherTest: Thinkpad T20 with 700MHz Pentium III and 64MB of RAM 16:02:57 AnotherTest: that's no longer the default optoin 16:02:59 *option 16:03:03 I just have it up constantly 16:03:04 ah 16:03:11 well at least they made a good choice there 16:03:15 ais523: define too much load. Using that logic almost all new software is filled with bugs :p 16:03:28 (on my system at least) 16:03:39 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 16:04:13 nortti: I'm on an Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.53GHz with 1002.4MiB RAM 16:04:36 nortti: substantially more than would be reasonably expected for what the software actually does 16:05:12 I'm just going to stay with 10.04 16:05:20 ais523: That doesn't work if you have unreasonable expectations. 16:05:23 AnotherTest: try lubuntu 16:05:25 elliott: indeed 16:05:43 nortti: I might, also, xubuntu; is that notable? 16:05:54 AnotherTest: only 1G? although that should be easily enough for almost anything, sadly programs rarely assume that any more 16:05:58 AnotherTest: almost as slow as ubuntu 16:06:04 also, 1002.4 is not 1024, that's an interesting decision… 16:06:17 he should have said 1GiB 16:06:19 I think 16:06:30 AnotherTest: no, 1 GiB = 1024 MiB 16:06:34 Gio, if you want to be pedantic. 16:06:37 1002.4MiB != 1024MiB 16:06:38 oh I switch them around 16:06:39 elliott: indeed 16:06:59 even one megabel is enough sound intensity to destroy the Earth 16:07:05 And yes, on this machine just 1G 16:07:12 probably even one kilobel, come to think of it 16:07:17 ais523: It's not really "sadly". There's no point devoting time and effort to minimising memory footprint if everybody has more. With that kind of argument, everyone should code like we're using Altair 8800s. 16:07:23 I find it enough 16:07:36 (Where "o" is an abbreviation for "octet" I think I invented and almost nobody will understand, so be careful about where you use it.) 16:07:39 elliott: well, programs still take a noticeable amount of time to load and execute 16:07:47 Deewiant: I've seen it elsewhere 16:07:56 I think, at least 16:07:56 Deewiant: It's useful for pedantry and also arguing with pedants! 16:08:06 ais523: That's mostly unrelated to RAM. 16:08:09 elliott: Sure, but not for much else. :-) 16:08:11 ais523: Disk is a huge factor in that. 16:08:17 right, indeed 16:08:20 elliott: indeed 16:08:29 If you get an SSD you'll notice everything go noticeably faster; if you run from a RAMdisk, even faster. 16:08:33 *RAM disk 16:08:33 hmm, I wonder how long it takes to fill a 1GiB array with consecutive integers? 16:08:46 would depend of the memory access? 16:08:53 ais523: Faster if you use SSE ;) 16:08:55 Ask Vorpal. 16:08:59 can't check, only have 927MB free 16:09:02 He's the filling-big-arrays-unreasonably-fast guy. 16:09:07 (*cough* cfunge) 16:09:08 elliott: well even I assume that my system has at least 2MB of RAM and I try to minimize memory footprint 16:09:16 ais523: elliott picked it up from my web site and may have spread it around, at least. 16:09:21 Deewiant: I haven't. 16:09:22 Vorpal: do you know how long it takes to fill a 1GiB array with consecutive integers? 16:09:26 Deewiant: But I have seen it elsewhere too, I think. 16:09:42 elliott: Well, you've used it here at least a couple of times, which kinda counts. 16:09:52 #esoteric is the terminology propagation centre of the world. 16:10:26 is the "Dragon Book" still up-to-date? 16:10:34 I've heard people saying it's not. 16:10:41 Depends on your definition of "up-to-date". 16:10:43 elliott: a quick websearch implies that both "Mio" and "mebioctet" are in Christian Biere's signature 16:10:45 Which would suck because I orded it 16:10:53 *ordered 16:10:56 cpressey doesn't like it and recommends something else instead. 16:11:11 up-to-date := useful nowadays 16:11:23 AnotherTest: I'd say so 16:11:30 ais523: Who's Christian Biere? 16:11:30 nowadays := today 16:11:39 elliott: I have no idea 16:11:39 someone who has both "Mio" and "mebioctet" in their signature 16:11:40 today := 06/05/2012 16:11:40 AnotherTest: At least from what I have heard 16:11:48 AnotherTest: You misspelled 2012-05-06. 16:11:51 I did try finding out, but apparently they're just some random person 16:11:52 alright 16:12:00 elliott: no, I live In belgium 16:12:05 we write it like that here 16:12:18 actually it is 6.5.2012 16:12:26 I don't think the English language prescribes a correct notation for dates 16:12:49 ISO does! I think they need a militia to enforce their standards. 16:13:35 ah ISO, they'd better bother with Javascript 16:14:03 elliott: is ISO standard yyyy-mm-dd? 16:14:19 Yes. (It's more involved than that, but yes.) 16:14:35 Actually it's not quite perfect, since the full yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss format is ugly because of the T. 16:14:36 yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss then a letter for the timezone, typically Z for UTC 16:14:43 ais523: It's more involved than that. 16:14:43 I think that's discrimination elliott 16:14:49 AnotherTest: What? 16:15:01 because it's assuming the culture of everyone has the Christian religion 16:15:10 What is discrimination, exactly? 16:15:16 AnotherTest: people mostly use the Gregorian date system whether Christian or not 16:15:35 ais523: true, I was just teasing elliott 16:15:38 wow, ddate isn't in the coreutils package any more 16:15:46 s/easing/rolling/ 16:15:47 or even in the repositories, under that name at least 16:15:52 (Hey, those are both words.) 16:16:07 define "trolling" 16:16:16 AnotherTest: rolling with a t in front of it 16:16:18 ais523: Can you find a reference older than 2009-07-05? 16:16:20 or in the repositories under any name 16:16:24 What is rolling exactly? 16:16:34 AnotherTest: the gerund form of "roll" 16:16:39 AnotherTest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it 16:16:45 What is roll, exactly? 16:16:52 alternatively, present participle of "roll" 16:17:00 oh so you're an empiricist, elliott? 16:17:20 AnotherTest: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/roll#Verb 16:17:36 ais523: thanks, that's what I call some definiton 16:17:42 although I didn't realize it had 27 different meanings 16:17:50 but oh wait 16:17:54 27. (transitive) This word needs a definition. Please help out and add a definition, then remove the text {{rfdef}}.  [quotations ▼] 16:17:59 thanks, wiktionary! 16:18:00 what exactly is a definition? 16:18:29 AnotherTest: you probably have enough information to find out yourself 16:18:33 perhaps you even know the answer already! 16:18:44 Yes, but how can that information be trusted? 16:19:04 suppose the defintion of defintion would be wrong? 16:19:12 Well I suppose that's impossible. 16:19:24 AnotherTest: eventually, sooner or later, you have to trust something or someone 16:19:27 Because then the definition of wrong would be wrong :(. 16:19:36 16:19:41 that's not irony 16:19:47 oh god 16:19:48 or, hmm, maybe it is 16:20:00 I guess it all depends on the defintion 16:20:02 elliott: if a dictionary did misdefine "wrong", that would indeed be ironic 16:20:03 probably nothing is ironic, considering how much people say isn't 16:20:09 assuming it was done by mistake 16:20:16 ais523: yes, but if the definition of wrong is itself wrong, not as a mistake done by a dictionary, would that be ironic? 16:20:35 elliott 16:20:37 you have point 16:20:40 elliott: I'm not even sure the concept of wrongness makes sense wrt definitions in natural languages 16:20:47 since then the definition of ironic would be wrong 16:21:00 Well, I think this explains the Alanis Morissette song. 16:21:05 in computer languages, it's possible to have an objectively wrong definition, though (such as one that's incompatible with the desired semantics) 16:21:19 elliott: it's genuinely ironic that the song is meant to be about irony and yet doesn't know what irony is 16:21:28 The *song* doesn't know what irony is? 16:21:35 Well, I suppose it doesn't. 16:21:52 ais523: yes, but the semantics parser will still give an error 16:21:57 err, that the existence of those lyrics of the song imply that their author doesn't know what irony is 16:22:07 AnotherTest: you don't know what you're talking about 16:22:07 ais523: and the language does not consists of only a syntax parser 16:22:16 *consist 16:22:21 ais523: how so? 16:22:32 * elliott concurs 16:22:58 you're using the lies-to-first-years definition of "semantics", rather than the mathematical definition 16:23:19 lies-to-first-years :D 16:23:25 I was never in first year :( 16:23:27 elliott: by analogy with lies-to-children 16:23:30 ais523: I know, it's amusing 16:23:39 I would rather pick lies-to-children then 16:23:51 I actually saw that lie made a few months ago 16:23:59 I read it :( 16:24:08 AnotherTest: do people seriously teach children compiler design? 16:24:15 In Belgium they do. 16:24:18 children teach themselves 16:24:21 that's how things go 16:24:36 agreed, I think; now I'm wondering if I could have written a compiler before I turned 18 16:24:50 It's possible, since I've done so. 16:24:57 I'd need to have thought of doing so, for one thing; I definitely could have learnt 16:24:58 You're not ais523. 16:25:03 AnotherTest: if you are interested in compiler development I would recommend reading crenshaw's Let's build a compiler 16:25:03 I doubt you wouldn't be able to if if you could 16:25:07 *if 16:25:21 oh, of course I could, I read a book on compiler design before then 16:25:29 and later cited it in my Masters' project 16:25:58 hmm, fun YouTube regression: the Pause button no longer changes to a Replay icon when the video ends (but clicking on it replays the video anyway) 16:26:17 nortti: books, books, books! I'll first finish the books I'm currently reading; but thanks for the tip 16:26:47 AnotherTest: atually Let's build a compiler is a article series 16:27:35 ais523: It just occured to me that I haven't used youtube's own player to play youtube videos for a year 16:27:58 nortti: oh 16:28:06 nortti: do you download them, violating the TOS, then play them in some other player? Or use a streaming player? 16:28:38 * ais523 notes that streaming and downloading look identical from the server's point of view, and mostly from the client's too, so it's weird that the distinction is made 16:29:06 ais523: youtube-dl (download) currently, mactubes/youview (streaming) on my iBook 16:30:12 AnotherTest: it teaches how to build simple compiler on Pascal under SK*DOS compiling to m68k assembly 16:30:23 oh pascal :( 16:30:31 I would have to learn Pascal first then 16:30:39 AnotherTest: meh, it's just a simplified algol 68 16:30:47 hmm, looks like the tailor of panama has the opening titles set in comic sans 16:30:59 AnotherTest: I translated code to python even thought I don't really know pascal either 16:31:21 I wan't that hard 16:31:35 nortti: but I think you always make big mistakes if you don't really understand a language; you just don't notice it 16:32:26 I'm just going to read the dragon book, I think that should be as well as those articles? 16:33:04 AnotherTest: pascal code used there is very easily readable without much pascal knowledge and I always sanity checked all my modifications and the seemed to work. Also I think that there is a forth version of Let's build a compiler 16:33:44 AnotherTest: dragon book is bit harder to learn from because it covers more 16:34:12 I think I'll be fine 16:34:20 it's intended to learn from 16:34:24 so that shouldn't be a problem 16:34:25 *It wasn't that hard 16:34:57 everyone knows that an intent to teach always translates to being easy to be taught by 16:35:35 -!- derdon has joined. 16:37:02 elliott: how can you be sure everyone does? 16:37:09 what 16:37:10 maybe you should redefine everyone 16:37:16 oh 16:37:42 AnotherTest: this sort of needless pedantry really doesn't add much to the conversation, save it for compilers 16:38:34 (define everyone '(everyone who knows that an intent to teach always translates to being easy to be taught by)) 16:38:49 ais523: again, I'm just fooling with elliott's urge to define things 16:39:02 AnotherTest: yes, and it is not a useful thing to do 16:39:04 s/ooling/rolling/. Wait... 16:39:21 conversations go much faster if you're not throwing in pointless trolling every few lines 16:39:25 ais523: I agree, but I can't help it 16:39:37 AnotherTest: is this some sort of Internet version of Tourette's? 16:39:45 or is it that you actually /can/ help it 16:39:47 and just don't want to? 16:39:47 people who can't help but troll should avoid IRC 16:40:18 ais523: I can't help to because elliott insulted me more than once 16:40:41 AnotherTest: this is a pretty bad explanation 16:40:42 elliott: I agree 16:40:47 and because I'm trying to make him stop with the definition thing 16:40:53 do you know what a "mutual recrimination cycle" is? 16:41:00 no 16:41:09 But I'm guessing 16:41:11 I did "the definition thing" once to try and help you find an answer to your extremely vague question. 16:41:16 it's when one person does something to annoy someone else, and they respond in kind (or worse), and the first person responds in kind (or worse) 16:41:19 and it gets out of hand 16:41:42 if you're going to respond to someone annoying you, try to do so in a less bad way than the original, not a similar or worse way 16:41:50 it's true 16:41:53 I realize that 16:41:53 not only does it prevent it getting out of hand, it also lets you take the moral high ground and go around being smug 16:42:03 Win-win 16:43:25 but tbh, elliott, you did it more than once; but let's not continue the viscous circle 16:43:44 I assure you, the circle will be as solid as they come. 16:44:51 anyway 16:45:07 are there still esolang boards? 16:45:14 elliott: solidity is a state of maximum viscosity 16:45:30 ais523: Oops. 16:45:33 AnotherTest: The wiki. 16:45:46 AnotherTest: kareha on esoteric.voxelperfect.net was disabled because nobody used it, and I have no idea what's happened to esoteric.sange.fi 16:45:56 Graue shut the forum down when I took over the wiki since it got tons of spam and nobody used it. 16:45:57 but alt.lang.intercal still exists, even though nobody posts there 16:45:58 But I have an archive at http://esolangs.org/forum/. 16:46:26 "BUY LOST DVD WITH LOWEST PRICE" 16:46:27 mhm 16:46:45 doesn't sound like an esoteric programming language :p 16:46:45 "Nice.. but the idea is difficult to understand. Life is much more hard to live than you can imagine.." 16:51:39 Gun Holsters That Shoot You in the Leg, A Flammable Fire Extinguisher, Hand Sanitizer That Adds Bacteria to Your Skin, The Laundry Detergent That Shreds Clothes, The Flashlight That Can Stop Your Heart 16:52:24 wat 16:52:48 This is still the best spam thread from the forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/kareha.pl/1302671493/l50 16:53:04 elliott: http://www.cracked.com/article_19805_the-5-most-baffling-product-recalls-all-time.html 16:53:28 -!- calamari has joined. 16:55:12 I was wondering 16:55:29 (and I'll try to be specific elliott, but I might fail) 16:55:50 does any programming language exist where 16:56:11 where what? 16:56:15 let me type 16:56:44 the type-system works "top-down"; with that I mean that you evaluate an expression to a given type (rather than to an unknown type and then check it with the given type) 16:56:48 You don't have to press enter before finishing your sentence, you know. 16:57:03 I'm sorry 16:57:20 Deewiant: Hey, I do it. :p 16:57:26 (Admittedly I type really fast.) 16:57:37 anyway so Real r = 5 + 5; would be Real r = Real(5) + Real(5); 16:57:46 AnotherTest: Haskell does that with typeclass overloading. 16:57:47 I only do it accidentaly 16:57:54 Assuming I understand what you mean. 16:58:06 rather than Real r = Int(5) + Int(5); (assuming 5 is an integer literal) 16:58:13 (5 + 5 :: Real) is really (fromInteger (5 :: Integer) + fromInteger (5 :: Integer) :: Real) under the hood. 16:58:27 And you can make overloaded values whose result depends on the type you use them as. 16:58:30 Well, I know 16:58:41 but I meant, that, does a language exists where that isn't the case? 16:58:56 Well, I interpret that as "top-down" by your definition. 16:59:06 (Note that the "typeclass overloading" is not related to OOP classes, and is something OOP can't do.) 16:59:33 Many languages separate evaluation from type-checking, anyway. 16:59:38 and is there a language where the whole type system is done like this? 17:00:04 Because I actually find that this isn't that bad 17:00:10 (the top-down approach) 17:01:15 I'm still not sure what the top-down approach constitutes. How does type-checking differ for such a language? 17:01:25 AnotherTest: Perl's type system works like that 17:01:31 although it only has two types, list and scalar 17:01:57 instead of the type of an expression being based on the expression, it's based entirely on the context 17:02:04 elliott: it differs fundamentally, the idea is sort of the reverse of the normal one 17:02:10 AnotherTest: When I say 17:02:11 17:58 (5 + 5 :: Real) is really (fromInteger (5 :: Integer) + fromInteger (5 :: Integer) :: Real) under the hood. 17:02:16 and quite a lot of things behave differently in list and scalar context 17:02:16 I mean that the former is what you actually type. 17:02:19 ais523: really? I need to look into perl more 17:02:20 You can also have, e.g. 17:02:24 myTest :: String ==> "abc" 17:02:27 myTest :: Int ==> 42 17:02:31 (Where (a :: b) means "a with type b".) 17:02:38 Which sounds like what you're looking for. 17:02:42 I have to go, dinner; bye 17:02:50 elliott: is ==> the actual syntax for that? 17:02:58 ais523: that's metasyntax for evaluation 17:03:06 ah, OK 17:05:25 AnotherTest: Anyway, the key thing that makes that work is the ability to overload only on return value. 17:05:38 Erm, that's badly-phrased, but whatever. 17:19:23 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:12 -!- elliott has joined. 17:29:52 elliott: overloading based on return type, indeed, that was partially why I was was interested in this approach 17:30:32 Haskell uses that quite extensively 17:30:32 besides that, it would also solve the typical C++ string literal problem where std::string a = "A" + "B"; is illegal 17:30:51 although that's just C++ :| 17:32:06 I think(and might be totally wrong) that maybe types should be separated from their literals 17:32:46 Haskell does that for numeric literals, and with an extension for string literals as well. 17:33:04 My interest in Haskell is rising 17:33:11 but I'm scared by people saying that it's horrible 17:33:31 but I guess there are always people who say that something's horrible 17:34:02 Are the people saying it's horrible C++ programmers? :P 17:34:03 "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Stroustrup 17:34:16 ^ :) 17:34:18 (Bonus: he's a C++ programmer. Well, the C++ programmer.) 17:34:20 Deewiant: true 17:34:28 knew that one, it's in The C++ Programming language 17:35:28 elliott: surprisingly, no 17:35:40 it are Perl programmers 17:35:41 AnotherTest: http://www.learnyouahaskell.com/ is the best Haskell book, FWIW. (Avoid Real World Haskell, it's outdated and goes too fast.) If you don't like LYAH, get a copy of http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book.html; I haven't read it, but have received glowing recommendations for it. 17:36:05 How is RWH outdated where LYAH isn't? 17:36:09 (Honest question) 17:36:19 what haskell implementation should I use? 17:36:23 nortti: GHC. 17:36:24 GHC 17:36:25 ghc 17:36:37 The others are either really outdated or not really prime-time-ready. 17:36:37 For most practical purposes, there is no other Haskell implementation. 17:36:55 UHC is useful for some specialised purposes (compiling to JavaScript), jhc is of interest but not really practical yet. 17:37:02 More or less everything else is dead. 17:37:05 Deewiant: Parsec, IIRC. 17:37:24 Deewiant: Also it recommends ByteString for text, because a certain one of the authors hadn't written Text yet ;) 17:37:32 elliott: bookmarked that :) 17:37:44 Both LYAH and RWH have the mtl 1 vs. mtl 2 problem, but that's just changing the capitalisation of one letter to fix, so... 17:37:46 Well, ByteString still has its uses. 17:37:52 Deewiant: No, it was for Unicode (IIRC) text. 17:37:55 Over String. 17:38:03 oh for the love of the $DEITY! Do I have to compile a compiler with this machine? 17:38:09 nortti: You can't, GHC depends on GHC. 17:38:16 The Linux binary is good, and can be installed to any prefix. 17:38:34 Just use it, GHC takes about 2 hours to compile on a fast machine even if you had an existing binary lying around. 17:39:14 elliott: good. Usually it is source compile when package is not on slitaz's repo 17:39:35 nortti: Note: Install 7.0.4, not 7.4.1. 17:39:49 Not every package builds with 7.4.1 yet and the Platform uses 7.0.4. 17:39:55 -!- jfischoff has joined. 17:40:09 (After you have GHC installed, you'll probably want to install the source package from http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/linux.html.) 17:42:38 -!- jfischoff has left. 17:45:39 I suppose lamda knowledge is useful in Haskell? 17:46:10 Depends what you mean by lambda :P 17:46:25 Haskell corresponds to an extended version of a certain lambda calculus (not /the/ lambda calculus), but you don't need any background in it to start reading LYAH. 17:46:26 lambda calculus, sorry 17:46:34 Nah, I knew that, it's just that there's a bunch of them. 17:46:40 alright 17:46:41 (Sure, Haskell uses anonymous functions, but even C++ has those nowadays.) 17:46:59 yes, but I meant more /the/ lambda calculus 17:47:14 because I don't really consider closures to be the whole lambda calculus 17:47:20 that would be rather restrained 17:47:35 no, short-sighted is a better word I think 17:47:42 Well, that's all the lambda calculus is, really; closures plus application. 17:47:49 what other lambda calculi there are than /the/ lambda calculus? 17:48:00 nortti: /The/ lambda calculus usually means the untyped lambda calculus. 17:48:25 There's various typed lambda calculi, including the simply typed lambda calculus, members of the lambda cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_cube), etc. 17:48:37 elliott: ah. Doesn't haskell implement untyped lambda calculus? 17:48:46 No, Haskell is typed. 17:48:55 elliott: read about that in the introduction I read 17:49:10 Haskell is Hindley-Milner plus typeclasses. 17:49:24 (Okay, s/Hindley-Milner/the lambda calculus which Hindley-Milner checks and infers typs for/.) 17:49:25 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:50:27 (And s/Hindley/Damas/g just to be different.) 17:53:23 Deewiant: Have you played brogue? Is quaff-iding potions a good idea in brogue? (I picked you because you're the last person to talk and also Finnish.) 17:53:37 I have not played brogue. 17:53:44 Damn. What about the second question? 17:54:02 elliott: I've seen a Let's Play of brogue that says that most items can be use-IDed safely with appropriate precautions 17:54:05 like not doing it in combat, etc 17:54:05 Based on experience in other roguelikes I'd guess "no". 17:54:20 I'm not entirely sure if this implies that some can't be 17:54:25 Deewiant: You should play brogue, it's really pretty. 17:54:29 but the person in the game quaff-IDed a potion of descent 17:54:34 which was inconvenient but not really fatal 17:54:52 Or "no, unless you're powerful enough that you know you can't easily be instantly killed". 17:55:13 "pretty" isn't a good reason to play a roguelike. 17:55:30 Exactly what does the potion of descent do? Teleport you to lower levels? 17:55:33 Deewiant: No, I mean, *really* pretty: http://ompldr.org/vZG1ueg 17:56:50 Meh. 17:56:54 ion: takes out the ground beneath anyone who drinks it (or just destroys the ground directly if it breaks on it) 17:57:07 which causes the drinker, or anyone you throw it at, to fall to the level below 17:57:07 ais523: THANKS FOR THE ADVICE http://ompldr.org/vZG45Mg 17:57:12 At least the fire, too, is really pretty. 17:57:38 elliott: well you didn't die, did you? 17:57:43 Not *yet*. 17:57:58 My monkey d id, though. 17:58:04 and you're only two squares from walking out of the fire 17:58:10 ais523: No, the fire was *on* me. 17:58:16 but to be fair, that was worth it just for "Your monkey catches fire!" 17:58:17 i.e. it followed me around. 17:58:22 ooh, interesting 17:58:27 Well, I'm almost dead, but I'm not on fire any more, and I'm still levitating. 17:59:04 Cool, I'm hovering over a pool of my own blood. 17:59:08 That's really metal. 17:59:38 why o why jQuery, does thou not do as I say?(or I'm just doing it wrong :() 17:59:55 also, seems like rather cool game 18:01:59 AnotherTest: jQuery? that second boss is hard as hell 18:03:03 jQuery, the (over-)popular JavaScript library(assuming you're asking about what it is) 18:03:12 *asking what it si 18:03:14 *is 18:05:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:16:45 -!- nikolos has joined. 18:16:45 In my opinion you cannot really understand monad and other things from LYAH, and there are other things too like that; I find reading Haskell 2010 report also helps understanding syntax and so on a bit better but even that won't help completely; you have to learn it by yourself 18:16:56 hi 18:17:04 `welcome nikolos 18:17:08 nikolos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 18:17:09 `@ nikolos ? esoteric 18:17:20 yes 18:17:24 nikolos: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 18:17:31 our bots are so slow :( 18:17:42 ok 18:17:50 elliott: was that a guess? 18:18:00 everything's a guess 18:18:02 kind of 18:18:08 right 18:18:23 guess to the point 18:18:36 wat 18:18:55 Yes bots are slow so try harder 18:18:59 ok 18:19:24 -!- nikolos has quit (Client Quit). 18:19:40 hi 18:22:09 I have fortune file too. I have added two of the pasted ones 18:31:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:31:53 Just a few seconds ago I have corrected Internet Quiz Engine so that a ? block may contain multiple ! conditions without damaging the answer numbers. 18:32:41 (It will now pay attention to skipped : instructions when numbering the answers so that when skipping a question that has already been answered, it knows which one it is.) 18:34:24 -!- nortti has joined. 18:42:53 -!- monqy has joined. 18:50:54 http://farm1.staticflickr.com/31/103658637_bc9b5c88fa_z.jpg lol :D Do some people really think like that? 18:51:02 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:51:37 Hello 18:51:50 I'm feeling a lot better now 18:52:04 hi 18:52:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:53:12 elliott: did you hear: i forked crawl. bad idea. now i won't be able to get any work done :'( 18:53:22 monqy: i didn't hear when did this happen 18:53:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:53:27 and why 18:53:27 last night 18:53:31 i forget 18:53:32 and what's it called and what's changed so far 18:53:39 monqys-crawl 18:53:44 that's way worse than qrawl 18:53:53 it's what gitorious called it 18:53:57 i just went with the flow 18:54:04 link 18:54:18 btw, convince ais523 that nethack's id game is boring 18:54:18 i havent comited anything im just playing around by myself right now :'( 18:54:37 oh right i created it because i wanted to see what crawl would be like without randomization in combat and then i made all levels 24x24 18:54:52 hahaha 18:54:54 next up I'm removing healing over time, removing food, removing identification 18:54:58 uhh 18:55:03 squarelos too? 18:55:07 oh wait 24x24 18:55:08 nolos i guess 18:55:11 elliott: it probably needs full spoiling to be interesting, probably item ID techniques should be spoiled 18:55:17 24x24 is a bit too big for nolos 18:55:36 monqy: why not just make levels the size of the default viewport 18:55:41 maybe that's a bit too small 18:55:45 that's what i did originally but yeah 18:55:52 levels ended up having like no features 18:55:55 you could make levels bigger to compensate but 18:55:56 erm 18:55:58 i could have mucked with levelgen but ehhh 18:56:01 *make there be more levels to compensate 18:56:12 oh right also next up i'm removing upstairs 18:56:18 :( 18:56:21 i don't like games without upstairs 18:56:37 and scaling ood rate up 18:56:49 monqy: why remove upstairs, out of curiosity? 18:57:14 elliott: because optimal stashing play in Crawl is really boring 18:57:22 i don't like stairdancing or stashing or anything like that that, which upstairs allow 18:57:25 that is one reasonable fix for that, I've actually suggested it to Crawl's devteam 18:57:30 ais523: I'm asking for his opinion so I can suggest alternative solutions 18:57:39 and with healing over time removed you can't go upstairs to heal 18:57:40 that don't remove upstairs, because I like upstairs 18:57:57 monqy: with stashing, you could just make some common monsters pick up items they can't use 18:58:02 or destroy them somehow 18:58:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:58:10 nah 18:58:11 hmm, I guess levels don't run when you're not on them 18:58:25 there's code to destroy off-level items 18:58:27 jiyva uses it 18:58:32 elliott: the other solution to stashing is to have a bag of holding that takes a lot of time to access so you can't do it in combat 18:58:42 monqy: for stairdancing, I have a decent idea for fixing that, but you sound like you've already made up your mind, so 18:58:47 but Crawl's devteam is vetoing containers with contents in the name of keeping the game simple (!) 18:59:11 i agree w/ adding a bag of holding 18:59:12 How hard could it be to write a roguelike? 18:59:16 Ngevd: not very 18:59:26 they avoid many of the typical gamedev issues 18:59:32 balancing a roguelike, OTOH... 18:59:38 monqy: (but if you're not then I'll tell you) 18:59:41 How hard could it be to write a roguelike for someone with minimal video game programming experience? 18:59:47 what is it 19:00:01 monqy: if a monster is trying to fight you (i.e. not wandering), and you go upstairs, then it'll "follow you" 19:00:03 it'd be simpler for me to leave staircases than remove them, and when i make my very own roguelike i just won't have them 19:00:08 Ngevd: this is a guide to writing roguelikes, did you already see it? 19:00:11 oh that 19:00:12 read: after N turns (how long it'd take for it to get to the upstairs), it appears on the downstairs 19:00:13 brogue does that 19:00:18 calamari, no I did not 19:00:28 monqy: (then do the same for compansions and you can also remove the radius thing) 19:00:40 by radius i mean 19:00:47 the fact that things one away from you teleport up the stairs with you 19:01:18 Does your game have PC/NPC unification (if applicable)? Does it have multiple stairs? Macros? Discouragement of wasting time (including fighting a lot of the same kind of creature)? 19:01:21 Ngevd: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/How_to_Write_a_Roguelike_in_15_Steps 19:01:35 monqy: maybe i should look at crawl's code 19:01:54 hav fun 19:02:06 monqy: it's not fun i'm looking for it's revenge 19:02:07 calamari, yay 19:02:09 why do you like upstairs, out of curiosity? 19:02:15 well 19:02:28 one "realism" i.e. i just don't like the idea of staircases disappearing once you go down them 19:02:38 two, for things like entrances to branches 19:02:47 (1) no issue, they'll all be escape hatches 19:02:50 What if they are *not* staircases, but instead are holes in the ground? 19:02:59 monqy: that's just silly instead 19:03:10 monqy: three, I think it's OK to go back for loot that you skipped (as distinct from stashing) 19:03:25 if you want the loot, pick it up!!! 19:03:36 but it's heavy and I can't use it yet! 19:04:04 pick it up anyway 19:04:05 elliott: Then that is your fault for stealing things that you cannot carry. Perhaps find a similar thing later on 19:04:07 :( 19:04:10 monqy: what about #2 19:04:24 (btw, are you going to remove food entirely, or just hunger? the latter seems better because ghouls and the like) 19:04:29 (or are you removing ghouls too) 19:04:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:05:00 removing food entirely, modifying mummys and ghouls and vampres to make them mean something again 19:06:15 lol :D my bookmarkfile is larger than my text editor binary 19:06:53 Do you know the answers to my questions? 19:07:00 monqy: what about #2 ;_; 19:07:44 firefox's places.sqlite (which stores bookmarks and history, I believe) is about 25 times the size of my text editor binary 19:07:45 "there will be a solution" 19:08:02 monqy: to branches??? 19:08:06 OK this is fucking enough. 19:08:06 I have had it up to here with this motherfucking GNOME on this motherfucking laptop. 19:08:15 anyway uugh i really don't like removing upstairs but "your game" 19:08:27 traveling between branches is ugh anyway 19:08:34 interlevel travel is 19:08:35 generally ugh 19:08:47 monqy: conversely, why do you want to remove stairs with the tweaks I suggested? 19:08:52 Deewiant: I am using a flat file 19:09:01 +text 19:09:30 i don't like your antistashing tweak 19:09:35 and I have used this file for about a month 19:09:43 Phantom_Hoover: I was using Kde 3.5/Trinity.. when I got my new laptop, I tried a ton of DEs.. finally came back to Trinity, it's my favorite 19:09:51 monqy: ais523's is probably better 19:10:29 calamari: has there bern much change from kde 3.5? 19:10:42 nortti: not really 19:10:55 the bag of holding? 19:10:59 yes 19:11:07 nortti: it's definitely stuck in the past.. but that's me, I guess 19:11:15 calamari: how much memory does it use 19:11:38 I'm not actually sure how to determine that 19:11:44 calamari: I used to use twm 19:11:58 + so age is not anissue 19:12:10 i'm not really fold of those either but maybe there are solutions?? 19:12:15 calamari: use top command 19:12:32 monqy: how about limiting the amount of weight a tile can support? 19:12:49 so if you try and put too much on one tile, it just turns into a shaft or whatever 19:12:52 how would that prevent stashing 19:12:52 nortti: right, but there are diffrent numbers, and I was never sure which one was real 19:12:57 monqy: it'd make it really tedious 19:13:00 "great" 19:13:03 "just what i wanted" 19:13:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:13:10 monqy: that discourages it, doesn't it? 19:13:27 making something more tedious doesn't stop it from being optimal 19:13:42 i want to remove the "optimal but tedious" aspect 19:13:50 nortti: I'll add up a few of there and see what I get 19:13:52 nobody plays optimally; if you make the optimal stuff annoying enough, people won't bother 19:14:13 i don't like that philosophy 19:14:15 at 19:14:16 all 19:14:20 fair enough 19:14:23 I like removing upstairs less 19:15:05 monqy: how about just making dropping an item destroy it :) 19:15:13 :( 19:15:20 it's better than removing upstairs!! 19:15:26 no it's not 19:15:33 you'd leave items on previous levels and come back to them 19:15:39 what 19:15:41 did you not 19:15:42 or 19:15:43 maybe not you 19:15:43 but 19:15:44 nortti: I'm assuming you'll want to run the standard stuff like package update notifications 19:15:45 oh right 19:15:45 other people 19:15:46 well 19:15:51 monqy: items would get destroyed when you go > 19:16:01 calamari: yes 19:16:15 elliott: and you prefer that over removing upstairs? 19:16:19 monqy: yes 19:16:31 calamari: actually n9 19:16:35 *no 19:17:28 I think my roguelike will go up rather than down 19:17:40 calamari: my computer is IBM ThinkPad T20 with 700MHz Pentium III and 64MB of RAM 19:17:42 monqy: anyway idkkkk you should at least leave removing upstairs for last so i can come up with adequate solutions to your objections in the meantime :p 19:18:10 ok 19:18:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:18:32 you should termcast what you have so far sometime or something 19:18:41 nortti: it looks like around 150mb 19:19:14 calamari: ugh. I'll just stick with openbox then 19:19:20 nortti: laptops are cheap, why not upgrade? 19:19:56 calamari: I try to use my computers as long as I can 19:19:57 It will be called "Business Barbarian" 19:20:19 nortti: 64mb ram is pretty limiting tho, even besides the gui 19:20:57 which browser do you use? 19:21:15 calamari: links2, hv3 and netsurf 19:21:24 I have a machine around that speed and iceweasel was not too fun 19:21:30 ah hehe 19:21:41 helliott 19:23:07 monqy: what are you going to do about vaults 19:23:37 a lot of them work but most of them get vetoed 19:23:53 calamari: my main browser is links2 in graphical mode and most of the programs I use are already terminal aplications. If I could only get framebuffer to work with my computer I would not autostart X 19:23:54 i meant 19:23:57 the annoying/bad ones 19:23:57 i'm pretty fine with this for monqys-crawl. it's not an entirely serious project 19:24:00 oh 19:24:05 uhh 19:24:09 saving that for last i guess 19:24:20 are you getting rid of imps :( 19:24:59 (that :( means "i hope so") 19:25:02 calamari: links2, netsurf and mplayer can be run on framebuffer 19:25:05 most monsters aren't very annoying right now 19:25:17 honqy 19:25:33 i'll probably have to make some adjustments because everything dies really really quickly like in one hit 19:25:45 haha what did you do 19:25:59 halamari 19:25:59 made most if not all things do max damage 19:26:15 maybe they should do average damage instead 19:26:19 maybe 19:26:22 (i'm not sure removing randomness in combat is A Gr8 Idea) 19:27:50 (but) 19:27:52 ("yr game") 19:28:08 like i said its 19:28:15 not really a serious project 19:28:30 neither is crawl 19:28:44 was that a joke 19:28:52 no 19:28:58 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 19:29:04 should it have been 19:29:15 nortti: I haven't used netsurf, but yeah I've done that with links2 and mplayer 19:29:36 monqy: you should remove the non-xom gods (im giving good advice) 19:29:51 wait no keep chei too 19:30:48 calamari: netsurf is a browser originaly for risc os that is a bitch to get to compild because of its dependecies 19:33:23 monqy: are you going to tweak starting stats/inv, btw, if you're increasing ood spawns? 19:34:53 by ood increase i might actually mean not generating monsters before your current depth because they're just not worth having 19:35:02 and by not generating them i might mean replacing them with oods 19:35:08 i don't know, myself! 19:35:15 i don't know myself either 19:35:47 monqy: why is crawl like 400k lines of code :( 19:35:52 ok by 400k i mean 373k 19:35:56 because bad 19:36:02 but that's like 19:36:03 a lot of source code 19:36:36 it's not particularly pleasant either 19:36:45 i don't even know where the monster definitions are 19:37:52 You could also make some things to be options which can be selected before the game starts 19:39:28 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:40:10 I don't think the Crawl people understand OOP 19:40:37 But is it better than Nethack?? 19:40:55 code-wise? 19:40:56 probably 19:41:16 bye 19:41:39 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:42:12 oh thank god i was only reminded who he was right after he left 19:42:45 -!- atehwa has joined. 19:44:05 Phantom_Hoover: who he is? 19:44:27 an idiot 19:44:41 ok 19:44:44 He came in going on about how general relativity is clearly bullshit. 19:44:55 When challenged on this, he claimed to be an expert on it. 19:44:56 that wasn't quite how it went 19:45:00 (it was terrible though) 19:45:13 Well roughly that, he was criticising it based on claimed expertise. 19:45:19 Then I asked him what a tensor was. 19:45:21 see http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-12-20#133853AnotherTest onwards 19:45:21 It got ugly. 19:45:26 what!? challeged general relativity? 19:45:32 it ends at 14:24 19:45:40 read ~if you dare!!!~ 19:45:43 yes we convicted him under uk anti-free speech legislation 19:46:08 oh 19:46:09 you need the 19:46:13 13:36:50: "Time is a part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change such as the motions of objects.[1] The temporal position of events with respect to the transitory present is continually changing; events happen, then are located further and further in the past. Time has been a major subject of religion, philosophy, and 19:46:13 science, but defining it in a n 19:46:13 13:36:51: on-controversial manner applicable to all fields of study has consistently eluded the greatest scholars. A simple definition states that "time is what clocks measure"." 19:46:14 13:36:56: -- Wikipedia, attempting to define "time". 19:46:16 13:37:10: Did you know that events happen, and then are located further and further in the past? 19:46:18 context for that 19:48:39 -!- atehwa has quit (Quit: testaan startup-skripti'). 19:48:41 Oh no, now I'm reading that log again. 19:48:41 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 19:48:50 -!- atehwa has joined. 19:49:15 The correct way to define time is according to its effects on physics. 19:49:36 nortti: fwiw I run openbox on that laptop :) 19:50:00 fwiw? 19:50:14 for what it's worth 19:50:47 I tried openbox/lxde on my new one but it jus tcouldn't handle multiple unmatched screens properly 19:51:49 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:52:48 elliott, the ending makes it all worthwhile. 19:53:29 calamari: have you ever used wwm? it is quite nice window manager 19:53:56 14:17:16: < means something, in fact 19:53:56 14:17:22: < implies =/=. 19:53:56 14:17:25: No 19:54:14 :) 19:54:49 Do you think this is the correct way to define time, or do you have other opinion? 19:54:51 14:21:27: I'm even doubting whether you understand what a momentum is, Phatum 19:54:54 nortti: nope 19:54:55 Phantom_Hoover: You're Phatum_Hoover now. 19:55:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Phatum_Hooveer. 19:55:04 -!- Phatum_Hooveer has changed nick to Phatum_Hoover. 19:56:13 Hovver 19:56:45 phætom howeyr 20:02:55 monqy: hi 20:03:10 hello 20:03:33 :o 20:03:34 -!- orionx has joined. 20:03:46 `welcome orionx 20:03:49 orionx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 20:03:50 `@ orionx ? esoteric 20:03:53 orionx: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 20:04:40 -!- orionx has left. 20:04:48 :'( 20:05:25 maybe we should put the programming note directly in the welcome message 20:05:55 `learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:05:58 I knew that. 20:07:18 It seems difficult (or maybe completely impossible) making the category for a partial ordering in Haskell. (As far as I can tell, the laws of a partial ordering are the same as the laws of a thin category.) 20:16:10 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 20:18:20 Jesus christ why is texlive so huge 20:18:24 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:18:25 monqy: this is a great sprint game im watching 20:18:26 they're just 20:18:28 mephitic clouding everything 20:19:16 scummos? I'm assuming it's not n7 20:19:21 yes 20:19:24 Phatum_Hoover: Probably it includes all of LaTeX which is very large, as well as fonts and drivers and so on; I do not know if it is possible to tell it to omit LaTeX. Also, do you have PCL printer? 20:19:41 ok they're not mephitic clouding the elephant slug 20:19:42 If you do not have a PCL printer, you won't need the programs "dvipcl", "dvilj", and their variants, either. 20:19:47 Sorry, allow me to amend my original comment. 20:19:56 Jesus christ why is texlive so huge zzo need not reply 20:20:27 O, you are asking Jesus Christ. Well, he isn't here right now. 20:21:04 when will he be back 20:21:04 sprint seems to involve a lot of running away 20:21:15 or maybe this guy is just bad at it 20:21:19 yeah 20:21:34 he's kiting the elephant slug, but maybe that's his only option 20:21:38 and that's only the first sprint 20:21:39 in like 20:21:40 zig sprint 20:21:42 there's no running 20:22:12 aren't you meant to kill sonja last 20:22:13 if 20:22:15 the level's named after her 20:22:24 no 20:22:27 jUST SAYING!!! 20:22:30 Freenode Sonja? 20:22:36 So mean 20:22:45 what 20:22:59 Oh, I thought you meant the freenode Sonja, I guess not 20:23:03 Frequents many channels 20:23:11 what a reasonable thing to believe 20:23:27 Phatum_Hoover: Perhaps you can remove the files that you don't want, after install? When I installed MiKTeX, it included many files I did not want but there is an option to remove them so that is what I did. 20:24:57 sprints look hard 20:25:23 sprint difficulty depends greatly on which sprint, combo, and if you know how to do it 20:25:36 by its fixed nature, it's much more spoily than normal crawl 20:26:25 i have a feeling it isn't very suited to pure melee characters 20:26:28 at least unless you have a ton of hp 20:26:36 no it's perfectly fine on them 20:26:39 at least 20:26:40 some sprints are 20:31:35 wow sprints are popular today 20:44:31 monqy: anyway i guess removing upstairs isn't such a bad idea except for the messing up branches thing 20:44:36 (also how are you going to do the orb run) 20:44:58 undecided 20:45:04 the mcrawl approach is just not have orb run 20:45:14 you just win once you pick up the orb or w/e? 20:45:16 yeah 20:45:21 i guess you could do the rogue thing 20:45:22 top priority momentarily is make it segfault less 20:45:30 change downstairs into upstairs once you get the orb 20:45:41 and i guess 20:45:45 have an upstairs next to the orb 20:45:50 orb run is pretty dull but maybe in monqys-crawl it would be more interesting 20:46:20 im working on the assumption that anything dull would be made more interesting 20:46:33 (ps it would be less dull with the things-follow-you-upstairs change!!!) 20:46:39 (maybe) 20:46:48 things-follow-you-downstairs 20:47:03 right, that should be added even if upstairs are removed 20:47:18 otherwise you can just skip any level with anything dangerous on it and since you can't go upstairs anyway you don't really lose much 20:48:38 -!- Ngevd has joined. 20:48:43 ps remove goliath beetles, nerf worms 20:48:52 Hello 20:48:57 hi 20:48:57 My roguelike is going well 20:48:59 worms were nerft by the max damage dealie 20:49:10 most things were, really. except for the things that were megabuft 20:49:18 "needs rebalancing" 20:49:19 -!- Phatum_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:49:23 monqy: yeah but that seems to have nerfed everything to a terrible degree so 20:49:25 "that can come after making it not segfault" 20:49:28 my balancing suggestions are assuming you fix that 20:49:46 the problem with removing randomness from combat is that 20:49:58 you can basically predetermine whether you'll live or die before doing anything 20:50:05 which removes all possibility of taking a risk or whatever 20:50:16 which is kind of A Shame 20:51:07 Change of plan, bye 20:51:08 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 20:51:52 "we'll just have to wait for monqy's actual roguelike" 20:52:30 didn't you realise it's impossible to make a crawl variant AND another game 20:52:33 didn't they TELL you 20:53:21 nobody told me :( 20:53:45 anyway i'm still suggest even if it's totally non-serious 20:53:52 *im *its 21:01:57 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2009/07/21/on-optimization/ 21:05:04 -!- Phatum_Hoover has joined. 21:10:07 -!- Phatum_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:16:09 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:31:17 I am trying to think of how to make WizardCard to know which headings are more specific than others 21:32:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:32:19 For example, the heading macro/xyz(0) is more specific than macro/xyz(#1) 21:32:53 You know what annoys me? 21:32:54 Since the first heading only matches exactly xyz(0) but the second one matches xyz with anything else too 21:33:16 How hard it is to configure wifi connections on Linux. 21:33:33 I *still* have no idea whatsoever how to do it except with the GNOME applet. 21:33:48 Phantom_Hoover: Did you read the man page? 21:33:58 Yes, the man page on wifi. 21:34:03 Or perhaps connecting to wifi. 21:34:22 I cannot find documentation without having the slightest idea which tool I'm even looking at. 21:34:24 *for 21:34:29 I don't know what that man page will be called; you can try man -k to search 21:40:20 or apropos 21:40:32 Can you help me with the algorithm of most specific headings? It is not only as simple as the examples I have given; there are other possibilities too. 21:42:13 zzo38: how about defining a union-of-two-headings function? 21:42:37 then x `isMoreSpecificThan` y = x == mappend x y 21:42:41 (if it forms a monoid) 21:43:04 Well, OK, but can you give an example of what you mean? 21:43:21 err, I'm not sure what you mean, that *was* the example :) 21:43:34 mappend x y would be a heading that matches whenever x or y matches 21:43:42 @ask Gregor what is wrong with bsd userland 21:43:42 Consider it noted. 21:43:42 OK 21:44:08 Thanks that looks like it will work 21:44:18 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:44:24 elliott: wouldn't you need the specificity order to form a lattice then 21:44:38 monqy: yep, I was making assumptions about zzo38's situation 21:44:51 zzo38: does it form a lattice 21:45:12 monqy: Can you explain what a lattice is, then? 21:46:49 The headings are of type [Token] and, other than the exact match tokens, the other ones are T_Para (matches anything), and T_List and T_Call (both of which can contain other tokens) 21:47:24 latice, basically: partial order with operations to take the greatest upper lower and least upper bound of any two elements 21:47:26 It seems that sometimes two headings cannot be combined in this way 21:47:52 i guess you could just get away with a semilattice though 21:48:07 monqy: What is a "greatest upper lower"? 21:48:09 semilattices only need one of those operations 21:48:11 er 21:48:17 i meant greatest lower bound 21:48:21 not greatest upper lower 21:48:23 "woops" 21:48:27 OK, that is what I thought you might have meant 21:48:29 its ok greatest upper lower was greatest 21:48:33 (also upper and lower) 21:49:40 zzo38: one of them is called "meet" and the other is "join" and I can never remember which is which, but mappend in elliott's example is one of them, depending on which way you order your stuff 21:50:49 fwiw, there's http://hackage.haskell.org/package/lattices 21:51:02 OK 21:51:21 which is probably better than Monoid for you since it ensures commutativity and so on 21:52:07 But "join" is already used in Haskell for the monadic operation. But are "meet" and "join" dual like in a dual category (treating the partial ordering as a category)? 21:52:29 you can import the module qualified (as L, say) 21:53:30 But, still, some headings may not be able to combine in this way 21:53:57 `pastefortunes 21:54:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20890 21:54:39 Unless you meant something that may match *more* than only the two original headings. 21:56:55 Perhaps you can clarify? 21:57:57 win 14 21:58:19 coppro: Can you elaborate on that? 21:58:23 typo 21:58:29 I forgot the / on an irssi command 21:58:38 OK 21:58:47 win 14 21:58:49 ... 21:58:50 OK I think I actually have Henry back to being tolerable!! 21:58:51 I give up 22:00:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:10 coppro: Do you know somethings about answering my question though? Maybe not? 22:00:50 elliott: For example, the headings macro/x(0) and macro/x(1) are both matched by macro/x(#1) but then it matches many other things too 22:04:13 nortti: I have a fortunes file too. Do you have? 22:04:39 zzo38: yes but it is very small 22:05:38 (Also, if the part before the slash differs, the headings won't combine at all, but that is not relevant since the ordering of specificness is not important if the headings are of a different kind) 22:06:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:06:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:07:04 c2bf project status: c2bf-cpp now supports #define, c2bf-libc has now been split to multiple files (stdio.c,string.c) 22:07:25 *c2bf-libc.c 22:08:39 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:54 todo: implement strings 22:12:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: TODO: QUIT). 22:13:44 -!- elliott has joined. 22:14:20 21:54:39: Unless you meant something that may match *more* than only the two original headings. 22:14:25 alas, no 22:15:35 monqy: does it still segfault :'( 22:15:54 i havne't worked on it since last night 22:15:58 "home work" 22:16:08 "hha ha schoole" 22:16:16 home work: make crawl variant 22:16:21 i wish 22:18:12 Aural myiasis (the technical term for "being earfucked by worms") 22:18:44 kool 22:36:45 qool 22:38:16 zool 22:38:20 xool 22:40:49 monqy: yool :'( 22:41:11 wool 22:41:12 fool 22:41:14 pool 22:41:18 aool 22:41:39 rool 22:42:11 vool >:( 22:42:41 tool 22:45:52 λool 22:46:15 ‰l 22:46:18 þool 22:46:18 Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:46:26 @messages 22:46:26 nortti asked 1h 2m 44s ago: what is wrong with bsd userland 22:46:31 ... 22:46:34 nortti: I was TROLLING 22:46:44 Gregor: ok 22:50:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:09:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:10 monqy: alsobtw, are you removing identification entirely or just making things identify on pickup? 23:30:39 plans to remove id entirely 23:30:55 picking things up to identify them then dropping them when they aren't good found "lots of fun" 23:32:07 monqy: yeah it's kind of boring; it's interesting in some respects but maybe not enough to keep it 23:32:14 not in the context of Crawl at least 23:33:09 i was thinking My Roguelike(tm) might have some minor forms of identification but they'd be very limited and race-based 23:33:35 e.g. a stupid race wouldn't be able to identify scrolls before using them (because they can't read) until they upped int 23:33:48 but the solution would be: don't use scrolls 23:33:49 the only form of identification i've considered for my roguelike so far is that spell-identification thing i talked about 23:34:14 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:34:22 well, "spell" "identification" 23:34:50 maybe i shouldn't speak of anything resembling an identification game in anything even resembling a positive light while i'm trying to convince ais523 that nethack's id game is really awful 23:35:03 -!- olsner has joined. 23:35:13 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 23:37:50 ais523: (which it is) 23:37:57 (im just saying) 23:51:50 hmm 23:52:00 my monkey is apparently not smart enough to not kill pit bloats 23:53:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 2012-05-07: 00:02:46 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:10:12 17:09:15 < Delcan> Crawl loves... it's just misunderstood 00:10:12 17:09:20 < Perryman> hate is love. 00:10:12 17:09:25 < Perryman> thats what i tell my girl anyway 00:10:12 17:09:30 < Perryman> did i say that out loud 00:10:12 17:09:33 < monqy> hi 00:10:19 ##crawl quality. ##crawlity. 00:11:31 monqy: was that hi as punishment? 00:12:11 as punishment as it can be without anyone understanding it 00:12:36 I mean, us in #esoteric understand that you mean hi as a threat 00:12:39 does ##crawl generally know that? 00:12:53 I don't think so 00:13:25 a threat? 00:13:28 what does it threaten? 00:13:32 to continue? 00:13:33 well, a punishment 00:13:39 it's the sort of thing you threaten 00:13:41 -much like this- 00:13:49 i know i'd feel ashamed if monqy "hi"d me :( 00:14:09 -I could keep this up for ages- 00:14:15 -It doesn't work if you don't punctuate.- 00:14:25 -it doesn't work as well at least- 00:14:31 -but punctuating is rare on IRC anyway- 00:14:41 im getting bored of brogue im going to play crawl instead 00:15:47 after playing a fixed-viewport game for a while crawl's moving viewport makes me dizzy again oops 00:16:51 aaa it's awful 00:20:23 monqy: help :( 00:20:37 maybe triy a different stairs down 00:20:41 oh too late 00:20:42 elliott: play nh4 00:20:42 actually it was the 00:20:49 viewport i needed help with 00:20:51 coppro: already have 00:21:12 it's not different enough to nethack for me to play it more yet 00:22:17 coppro: but if ais523 listens to me maybe i will ;) 00:23:40 _You sense Yredelemnul urging you to kill the trapped human. 00:23:43 yred, that's mean :( 00:24:26 maybe that was a bad idea 00:24:59 how so? 00:25:09 "oh no, a goblin" 00:25:09 idk i was expecting yred to 00:25:11 i dunno 00:25:13 reanimate it 00:25:14 or something 00:25:15 and kill me 00:25:16 i have no idea 00:25:31 wait, undead can worship yred? 00:25:38 yes 00:25:43 yred hates nonliving though 00:25:51 so 00:25:56 you can worship it but it'll hate you 00:26:00 no 00:26:06 nonliving is distinct from undead in crawl 00:26:11 (they're technical terms) 00:26:22 is nonliving like 00:26:22 plants 00:26:26 no 00:26:28 golems and stuff 00:26:43 the crawl holinesses are natural, plant, undead, nonliving, holy 00:26:56 (holiness is also a crawl term) 00:27:14 crawl what are you DOINGe 00:27:25 should i worship yred (no) 00:27:38 yaey, undead friends. yaey, alley managemtn 00:27:51 yaey, drain life? 00:28:20 do you want to hear a joke 00:28:30 i love jokes 00:28:33 orcs 00:28:37 ha 00:28:48 pls ha some more 00:28:52 ah 00:28:54 aaah 00:29:14 no 00:29:14 ha 00:29:15 the a comes 00:29:17 after the hs 00:29:47 wow after playing monqys-crawl crawl levels look so big and empty 00:29:55 i want to see monqys-crawl :'( 00:30:07 it's not ready for the public eye!!! 00:30:17 im not public!!! 00:30:35 i was almost going to fix the segfaulting today but then i remembered i had homework 00:30:43 segfaulting is part of the monqys-crawl experience!!! 00:30:43 "man i sure suck at not having that" 00:31:11 monqys-crawl doesn't actually exist you've just put a segfault in some branch of standard crawl code and lied about the rest "my prediction" 00:31:34 noo!!! 00:31:51 there are lots of segfaults ! 00:31:54 i have 00:31:54 NO 00:31:55 reason 00:31:58 to believe you!!!! 00:32:09 yaey, i can go berserk 00:32:09 D: 00:32:17 good joke eliot 00:32:20 ill go berserk over monqy's LIES 00:32:22 :'( 00:32:23 D: 00:32:34 elliott: what's the command to find out what my internet interfaces are 00:32:37 Hmm. Someone should make a roguelike where you have to try to win by avoiding actual segfaults. 00:32:56 maybe i'll termcast monqys-crawl once I get some of the segfaultiness ironed out 00:33:17 monqy: are you telling me that segfaults wouldn't make a termcast at least 67.4% more amusing 00:33:29 im sorry but i just cant condone your heretical views 00:33:30 monqy: what is the betterness of monqys-crawl? 00:33:33 ±0.1% 00:33:34 elliott: segfault likelihood increases quickly as you descend 00:33:44 monqy: that's even funnier!!! 00:33:47 quintopia: it's not really a serious branch 00:33:48 :''( 00:33:58 you know what's unserious? 00:33:58 segfaults 00:34:03 =/ 00:34:10 im going on crawl strike until i see monqys-crawl "taking a stand for freedom" 00:34:17 "with peer pressure" 00:34:25 ugh fiiiiiiine 00:34:34 yay 00:34:36 let's see i if i remember how to do this 00:34:42 i can tell you if you want 00:34:45 its 00:34:46 uhhh 00:34:49 ais523 what's the termcast oneliner 00:34:53 no i have it 00:35:00 thanks 00:35:03 `pastlog ratry_login 00:35:04 i just forget how to type 00:35:06 ais523: i don't need to know any more 00:35:11 monqy: this happens to me also 00:35:12 it'll be hilarious if this works ;) 00:35:16 * :) 00:35:35 No output. 00:35:43 ha 00:35:44 ha 00:35:45 `pastlog ratry_login 00:35:46 ha 00:35:47 ha 00:35:49 ha 00:35:54 elliott: it may have just been the HackEgo startup bug 00:35:55 ha 00:35:56 its so funny i cant survive help :( 00:35:56 ha 00:35:57 ha 00:36:01 ha 00:36:01 elliott: hi 00:36:01 ha 00:36:02 im dying 00:36:04 ha 00:36:06 ha 00:36:08 ha 00:36:10 im ded 00:36:10 2010-08-29.txt:22:22:02: script -f >( cat ./ratry_login - | nc -q5 noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null ) "$@" 00:36:15 elliott: ha 00:36:39 * ais523 goes back to feeling smug 00:36:55 ha 00:37:10 yay, it brought you back from the ded 00:37:20 no im still ded 00:37:25 im just laughing also 00:38:11 Hmm. xw on CDO seems to be running a bot of some kind, too. 00:38:18 And now he died. 00:38:39 elliott: halp 00:38:41 And now he died again. 00:38:56 TESTIN' POTIONS 00:39:00 TESTIN' SCROLLS 00:39:16 WEARIN' RIN' 00:39:35 xw is n7's autorobin fork 00:39:44 this thing is better than monqy's bot 00:39:49 "big surprise" 00:39:56 im surpis 00:40:00 ye die 00:40:02 ok uh 00:40:03 oh 00:40:04 felid 00:40:08 i got termcaste runeing 00:40:21 (i'm squarelos) 00:40:23 good ps1 00:40:29 monqy: On what server? 00:40:32 termcast.org 00:40:34 ais523: quick watche!!! 00:41:20 what a shell :) 00:41:34 well, shell prompt 00:42:07 so uh 00:42:09 what should i play 00:42:15 feck of chei 00:42:16 or 00:42:17 just 00:42:17 anything 00:42:18 SeAM 00:42:21 (not feck of chei) 00:42:23 * SEAM 00:42:38 i don't know if my modifications touched ranged combat, so it might megasuck 00:42:39 monqy: play something that won't die instantly or i guess nothing will since everything got nerfed 00:42:41 uhh 00:42:45 just play what you've been playing or w/e 00:42:52 let's pick a combo that's bad but not horrendously bad 00:42:53 hard choices 00:42:57 unless they removed AM altogether 00:43:04 AM got removed and then unremoved 00:43:08 SpFi 00:43:13 ion: haha 00:43:24 that's not so much bad as completely missing the point :) 00:43:28 monqy: just play (a) whatever you played when testing or (b) muck or something 00:43:44 but i've only been playing op things 00:43:46 MfFE 00:43:55 monqy: that's fine!!! 00:43:57 it'll mean we 00:44:02 DEIE 00:44:03 ~see more of the monqys-crawl experience~ 00:44:17 ok i'll cycle through everything you suggest that isn't just "whatever you tried" 00:44:24 i suggest: 00:44:26 whatever you tried 00:44:26 what about just viable random? 00:44:29 so first, a feck that takes chei first chance it gets 00:44:35 ok fine 00:44:50 at least xom's teleportation isn't very scary when the maps are this small 00:44:53 erm 00:44:55 monqy: TERM=xterm 00:44:56 the 00:44:58 dark grey is 00:44:59 hmm, the felid is a Unicode character that isn't in dejavu sans mono 00:44:59 black again 00:45:00 oh no is it not working 00:45:07 it works apart from dark grey that turns out black because 00:45:08 urxvt 00:45:08 gnome-terminal can render it fine 00:45:12 xterm can't 00:45:23 ais523: it's not the normal fe glyph 00:45:24 ais523: no, it's a square 00:45:29 monqy plays as a flashing rainbow square 00:45:30 elliott: The politically correct term is African-American. 00:45:34 oh, it's /meant/ to look like that 00:45:37 monqy: pls TERM=xterm? :( 00:45:40 ion: shut up 00:45:50 elliott: what about looking at it through screen? 00:46:04 what's with the messages, too? 00:46:09 ais523: I know for a fact it works if you set TERM=xterm, so why bother? 00:46:14 rip, eliot is a jerk 00:46:21 now what 00:46:30 octopode abyssal knight of chei 00:46:31 MDFi 00:46:32 oh right it was uh seam wasn't it 00:46:36 yes 00:46:48 trying to remember where I remember that combo from, it might have been a nemelex choice 00:47:09 "what wepon" - monqy 00:47:15 yeah 00:47:17 what weapon, i mean 00:47:21 i dunno if it was neme choice 00:47:26 weapone 00:47:26 whatever you have the best apt for, I guess 00:47:30 javs then 00:47:39 "skilles" 00:48:01 wow 00:48:02 oh no i oopsed 00:48:04 monqys crawl has 00:48:07 swarm problems 00:48:11 just 00:48:12 low hitpoint warning already? 00:48:13 go with something op already 00:48:19 so you don't keep dying 00:48:23 fiiiiine 00:48:23 you're still in sight of all three of the entry squares :) 00:48:34 so uh 00:48:36 what's op 00:48:38 whatever 00:48:38 you 00:48:40 tested with 00:48:41 D: 00:48:42 are you ASHAMED 00:48:46 i tested with a LOT OF THINGS 00:48:53 and yes im totally ashamed because of how op it is 00:48:59 its fine 00:49:01 we wont judge you 00:49:02 its just for testing 00:49:03 :'( 00:49:16 we'll accept this convenient fiction and ignore the fact that you obviously always play that combo when offline 00:49:33 does monqys-crawl have the randomised languages and colours and turncount-type-changing built in 00:49:41 no that's my .crawlrc 00:50:05 wow did you 00:50:07 start with full piety 00:50:19 elliott: he dropped to five, then back to six the next turn 00:50:19 Someone shoulde make a Britishe localisation for Crawle. 00:50:28 so I guess it has some sort of scaling, even more extreme than Sprint's 00:50:36 this looks more fun than crawl already 00:50:37 ion: Crawl is in British English already, actually 00:50:39 well, Australian English 00:50:45 or was it New Zealandish? 00:50:46 ais523: But not Britishe Englishe 00:50:47 monqy: you realise you're going to die so hard if you remove upstairs 00:50:51 but much closer to British than American 00:51:07 elliott: no 00:51:10 monqycrawl reminds me of Sprint a bit 00:51:11 Wait. Why do you have so much ********? 00:51:14 elliott: i forgot i had a conduct where i didnt take upstairs 00:51:20 ion: it's obviously being scaled 00:51:21 monqy: tell us about why you started with lots of piety :'( 00:51:23 ais523: it's kind of like zigsprint 00:51:33 monqy: also that's a bad conduct sheeshe!!! 00:51:36 elliott: nope, but i have sprint piety gainsenabled 00:51:38 "upstairs are good" 00:51:40 monqy: actually, that seems like a good game mode 00:51:53 what does? 00:51:54 ais523: what does? 00:51:57 start the player in a zig, put Sprint-like exp gains 00:51:58 monqy: "highe five" 00:52:10 increase the amount of loot somewhat 00:52:15 ais523: zig sprint is a thing, it's not really a zig but 00:52:28 oh, they made a Sprint map that's like a zig? 00:52:34 yeah 00:52:39 sprint v, by st_ 00:52:46 hmm, perhaps I'll play that, I prefer Sprint to regular Crawl quite a bit 00:52:52 on CDO? 00:52:57 monqy: hmm, are you sure just making maps the full size of the viewport was too small?? 00:53:01 s/\?\?/?/ 00:53:12 it looks like they're too thin and too tall 00:53:13 so 00:53:21 elliott: these are square 00:53:29 elliott: it's the shape of your font that makes it seem like that 00:53:34 :( 00:53:51 i think the piety scaling might be a bit extreme 00:54:06 getting rid of corpses means getting rid of corpse sacrifices 00:54:13 fair enough 00:54:21 i'll see if it's extreme after then 00:54:23 i think all the monsters are 00:54:27 and i turned on the sprint stuff just for fun 00:54:27 a bit too nerfed yeah 00:54:28 otoh 00:54:34 the kind of packs you get when going downstairs 00:54:34 some of them are megabuff 00:54:39 they just don't show up yet 00:54:41 will probably annihilate a low-level player with th enerfing 00:54:42 also 00:54:44 *the nerfing 00:54:44 reversed 00:54:49 so 00:54:52 "idke" 00:54:53 it doesn't help that I have 10ac. ac is op in monqys-crawl 00:55:15 great segfault 00:55:22 "glah" 00:55:52 this actually looks way better than crawl 00:56:19 ahahaha 00:56:23 i told you 00:56:23 :-) 00:56:28 they're great!! 00:57:27 monqy: you went upstairs!!! 00:57:35 i forgot about hte conduct 00:57:39 i also forgot about the no-resting conduct 00:57:42 "upstairs are great see" 00:57:47 it's just wired into me from so much crawl play 00:57:49 no i hate it 00:57:52 monqy: no-resting is a bit unreasonable if you get poisoned or slow or whatever 00:57:58 trogs hand 00:58:02 you're only removing HP regeneration, right? 00:58:06 i have infinite piety 00:58:13 magic/pois/etc. regeneration seem reasonable to keep 01:00:36 monqy: yuore skills are default 01:00:37 i think 01:00:40 no 01:00:43 oh 01:00:46 wow how are they 01:00:47 that high already 01:00:53 sprint xp gains 01:01:04 oops i forgot to go upstairs 01:01:06 whoops it reset you 01:01:09 yeah 01:01:15 i'll just dive 01:01:35 funne 01:01:43 you can't really 01:01:48 dive in this version 01:02:18 maybe you should 01:02:20 do something about that hp 01:02:42 rip 01:02:54 i get careless when its too easy and then there's a huge difficulty spike 01:02:57 monqys-crawl is like that 01:03:06 crawl is like that 01:03:08 now what to play!! 01:03:18 monqy: octopode chaos knight of chei 01:03:18 dsbe again? 01:03:20 like i said before 01:03:22 ok 01:03:30 recipe for humour: chaos knight of chei 01:03:39 op can't armoure so it might be a bit "difficult" 01:03:51 its ok armour is monqys-crawl's version of mephitic cloud 01:04:00 "dont use it" - monqys-crawl's version of monqy 01:05:33 ais523: does this look fun to you i cant tell if im just hallucinating 01:05:35 monqy: good glass 01:05:46 elliott: I'm playing zigsprint instead 01:06:13 ais523: bah, how can i choose between you playing crawl and monqy playing monqys-crawl? 01:06:53 monqy: you forgot to remove the monster colour-coding 01:07:06 it's low on the priority list 01:07:54 monqy: see that's what i meant by 01:07:57 opck "decidedly bad" 01:07:58 dying when going downstairs post-un-nerfing 01:08:05 (the no armour simulates the un-nerfing) 01:08:24 monqy: not yes 01:08:25 "aye" 01:08:43 monqy: try "ye" 01:08:59 monqy: do a same letter combo 01:08:59 i.e. 01:09:01 aa or pp or whatever 01:09:08 "excitinge variation" 01:09:39 monqy: * 01:09:47 Err, i mean # 01:09:53 monqy: wait it 01:09:55 actually asks for combination? 01:09:56 oh 01:09:56 huae? 01:09:57 because random 01:10:01 huae is 01:10:03 good pronouncing 01:10:04 so yes 01:10:21 i think it's pronounced like the first word of Beowulf 01:10:46 It’s the name of a Chinese network hardware manufacturer. 01:10:48 whoa 01:10:50 monqy: what happened 01:10:56 deid to ooze 01:11:17 is ddbe 01:11:17 good 01:11:20 yes 01:11:22 it sounds like it accidentally picked you an ok combination 01:11:59 Oh, i had totally forgotten DDs sense surroundinges. 01:12:44 theyre deep 01:12:53 "the two-headed ogre shouts in stereo!" 01:12:59 monqy: im dibs on setting up the first monqys-crawl server 01:13:06 the dibs are mine 01:13:13 ok 01:13:21 p eliot is a jerk's ghost 01:13:34 -!- elliott has changed nick to jerks_ghost. 01:13:42 -!- jerks_ghost has changed nick to jerks-ghost. 01:13:56 monqy: will you implement monsters following you downstairs please 01:13:58 thanxke 01:14:05 ok 01:14:31 "forgot to updsatatairs" 01:14:43 monqy: thank you you're good person :') 01:14:59 does that also mean you'll remove things teleporting downstairs when they should by rights take multiple turns to get down just because they're right next to you 01:15:03 (correct answer is yese) 01:15:44 good 01:15:54 are duvessa and dowan nerfed too 01:16:05 everyone got the same changes applid 01:16:11 yes but you said 01:16:16 some things are bufffffffed 01:16:23 ais523: btw you can reply to my messages with : hope this helps 01:16:31 jerks-ghost: I knew 01:16:38 just didn't feel like replying earlier 01:16:59 :'( 01:17:02 bleh, didn't quite last long enough 01:17:08 but it turned out not to matter 01:17:22 Full Pois Slow Exh -cTele 01:17:24 good combination 01:17:30 if only it was Starving too 01:17:39 monqy: at least the monsters shield you from the centaur 01:17:48 "gah" -- monqys-crawl 01:19:26 -!- lexande has left ("Leaving"). 01:19:38 monqy: what button did you press by oops 01:19:39 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:19:42 ac 01:19:44 instead of ab 01:19:46 oopse 01:20:01 monqy: did you asnwer my regen question i forget 01:20:02 *answer 01:20:05 ais523: you're missing out on monqys-crawl!!! 01:20:06 which 01:20:38 monqy: you're removing hp gen; i'm assuming you'll leave magic/pois/slow/exh/etc. regen? 01:20:42 oh 01:20:59 yeah, except for magic 01:21:12 hp/magic regen will be handled in similar ways 01:21:20 magic regen seems like 01:21:22 more of a pain 01:21:25 i forget, how are you handling hp regen 01:21:33 undecided 01:21:37 you could make food regen hp for everyone but "woops no corpsen" 01:21:55 (maybe leave corpsen and just make them regen hp instead of the hunger mechanic???) 01:22:54 eating is bad tho 01:23:05 would rather just atuomatically just regain hp from kile 01:23:24 that doesn't help if you need hp regenerating later on after kille 01:23:37 hmm 01:23:40 so it doesn't! 01:23:43 you could do hp on kill + remove max hp 01:23:44 dd of makh sure doesn't mind 01:23:56 so that killing increases max hp instead of hp if you're at max 01:23:59 well 01:24:01 max hp and hp rather 01:24:05 (or maybe just max hp???) 01:24:24 dunno if that would have any downsides or whatever "i d k"??? it's "just an idea" 01:24:28 nice 01:30:18 monqy: what happpended 01:30:20 in monqys-crawl, levels take a long time to generate because of how small they are 01:30:49 could be stuck vetoing everyyyyyyything 01:30:53 oh is it 01:30:56 literally hung 01:30:56 ok 01:31:05 or it may have actually hung itself rip 01:31:13 "attach gdb to it" 01:31:16 i'll put it out of its misery and try again 01:31:25 or that 01:31:33 monqy: what did you thinke about 01:31:36 above ideae ^ 01:31:41 whihc 01:31:54 02:23 you could do hp on kill + remove max hp 01:31:54 02:23 dd of makh sure doesn't mind 01:31:54 02:24 so that killing increases max hp instead of hp if you're at max 01:31:56 02:24 well 01:31:58 02:24 max hp and hp rather 01:32:00 02:24 (or maybe just max hp???) 01:32:02 02:24 dunno if that would have any downsides or whatever "i d k"??? it's "just an idea" 01:32:27 oh 01:32:44 dunno how that would work out 01:32:49 well, that explains why people hate torment, at least 01:32:59 mummy level? 01:33:03 yes 01:33:13 ais523: what happend 01:33:20 tormented repeatedly and then poked to death 01:33:25 I couldn't out-regen them 01:33:34 and they also killed the berserking trolls really quickly 01:35:20 monqy: well the idea would be: remove increasing max hp on level up 01:35:42 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:45 oh nuts slime critter 01:36:49 are they 01:36:51 hard in monqys-crawl 01:36:55 they merge and 01:36:56 i havent seen 01:37:00 anything hard in monqys-crawl yet!!! 01:37:03 monqy: i know what slime creatures do 01:37:08 that one got to enourmouse, ie 88dam 01:37:15 with maxdam that's uh 01:37:17 88dam 01:37:22 but then i subtract ac so 01:37:24 less than that but 01:37:27 "you get the idea" 01:37:33 jerks-ghost: they're designed to punish fighting in corridors 01:37:46 and interpret everywhere as a corridor in a level as confined as a monqys-crawl level 01:38:04 monqys-crawl must be gr8 for characters that are claustrophobic 01:39:52 monqy: yaktaur captain sounds like fune 01:40:12 yake 01:40:32 monqy: do the changes you made 01:40:34 affect the branches 01:40:42 they affect everything 01:40:49 probably make branch endings crash 01:40:58 monqy: go to the temple :D 01:42:01 monqy: :'( 01:42:43 ok fine i'll go to the termplel 01:42:53 thank 01:43:11 gr8 01:43:11 hapy? 01:43:13 hapy 01:43:18 now go to lair 01:43:19 oops 01:43:20 you kiled 01:43:21 it 01:43:22 forever 01:43:23 oops 01:43:24 its GONE 01:43:32 maybe try again??? 01:43:33 maybe ill 01:43:33 revive 01:43:34 i'll continue playing my testing gam 01:43:46 i br b for one second 01:44:21 im bake 01:44:35 monqy: did i miss anything 01:44:52 segfau 01:44:57 oopse 01:45:18 oh right in this game I have ignite blood and a vampiric battleaxe 01:46:15 do mutations come more often since 01:46:17 sprint 01:46:25 yeah 01:46:26 well 01:46:30 you gain levels more often 01:46:31 so 01:46:33 monqys-crawl sounds like 01:46:36 jog 01:46:36 or 01:46:37 brisk walk 01:46:42 (compared to crawl, sprint) 01:46:57 i told you it's not presentable yet :| 01:47:06 i didnt say that was a bad thing!!! 01:47:08 it looks great fun 01:47:20 it'd crash when going into zot too right 01:47:33 zot:5 for sure 01:48:46 monqy: have you not been using wizmode for testing? 01:48:54 wizmode is for cheaters 01:49:00 oopse 01:50:37 hi urug 01:50:42 hi haurice 01:50:48 hi joseph 01:53:05 wow good level 01:53:50 wow 01:53:51 that's 01:53:57 did you see the action 01:53:59 no 01:54:00 what happened 01:54:03 was it 01:54:05 ltos of monsters 01:54:14 every square had a monster 01:54:24 nioce 01:54:28 maybe you should make there only be one downstair wit 01:54:29 *with 01:54:31 the kind of levels you generate 01:54:33 i spawned next to a giant spore, which killed everything except me (barely), a hill giant(which it confused) and a centaur (which was outside the blast radious) 01:54:42 jerks-ghost: that's on the todo list 01:55:17 oops you died 01:55:21 oops 01:55:32 lots of dsbe and trbe eh 01:55:38 yeah 01:55:41 "testing" 01:55:42 you're revealing your TRUE PREFERENCES!!! 01:55:43 *PREFERENCES 01:55:46 :( 01:55:47 i should get back to my 01:55:49 homework 01:55:57 you are shamed!!! 01:57:03 monqy: im jerks-ghost forever now btw 01:57:22 did you die 01:57:40 yes, rip, im ded 01:57:46 monqy: i want to play monqys-crawl :( 01:58:04 haven't you ever heard of "commit early commit often"!!!!!!!! 01:58:08 D: 01:58:09 should i commit what i have, segfaults and all 01:58:56 yes 01:59:04 is it all going to be in one big commit 01:59:12 the git user inside me is sobbing 01:59:56 :( 02:00:09 normally i try to commit early and often!! monqys-crawl is just an exception 02:00:25 wherein i just wanted to play around 02:00:40 you could do what i do 02:00:50 do a bunch of changes and then use git commit -p 02:00:51 except 02:00:55 sometimes you have to stash half-way through 02:00:59 and reverse some commits and uh 02:01:01 it can get kinda messy 02:01:14 once i had a commit session that lasted a few hours on mchost 02:01:23 aahhhh 02:01:25 so how do i do this 02:01:33 it's uhh i 02:01:36 really wouldn't recommend it 02:01:40 oh 02:01:40 but 02:01:41 git commit -p 02:01:43 presents you all the hunks 02:01:45 just one big commit for now? 02:01:46 and lets you y/n them 02:01:48 and then 02:01:50 just commits those 02:01:54 oh 02:01:58 that's OK; it's when you have more complex requirements that it gets 02:01:58 not ok 02:02:03 like if you have changes that both touched the same place 02:02:05 but you want them in separate commits 02:02:13 then it's stash and restash and apply and modify and uugh time 02:03:03 but 02:03:05 git commit -p is ok 02:04:31 monqy: nice self-self-portrait 02:04:45 i think i forgot a few selfs :( 02:04:58 dind't you see it already before? did i accidentally make another 02:05:06 https://gitorious.org/~monqy 02:05:26 i use git add -p 02:05:37 kmc: but then you have to git commit!!! 02:05:41 yep 02:05:51 life's a bitch 02:07:04 monqy: alternatively: just do it all in one big commit if you would instead give up 02:07:45 (shouldn't you be doing it in a branch though) oh wait there's no commits 02:07:53 (don't do it in another branch its boreing) 02:08:10 ok i made the comites 02:08:18 hapy 02:08:20 ??? 02:08:27 doing what in a branch 02:08:34 monqys-crawl 02:08:47 oh boring 02:08:53 "technically" git "accepted wisdom" would have it in a branch if you had any pretenses about merging it back into crawl itself 02:09:11 monqy: ok now do the push :'( 02:09:13 i don't think they'd accept my changes 02:09:27 also uhhhh does it put stuff in my home directory or whatever 02:09:34 i dont think so 02:09:35 i don't know how to push!!! 02:09:45 im learn 02:10:35 monqy: git push 02:10:40 "that was hard" 02:10:42 thanks 02:11:40 TWSS 02:11:50 what 02:11:59 come on you can do better than that, ion 02:12:03 TWSS 02:12:07 coycdbtti 02:12:11 ion: stop it already 02:12:17 TWSS 02:12:32 "hi" - she 02:12:48 “that” –she 02:12:56 plonk 02:17:05 ok i 02:17:07 think i psuhed 02:17:13 "one waty to foidn out" 02:17:25 yeah there it goes 02:17:44 oh no i just remembered i forgot to make the code look presentable too 02:17:46 help i don't see them 02:17:52 refersh 02:17:58 http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl 02:17:59 elp 02:18:01 *h 02:18:10 oh its on your user page 02:18:23 monqy: your commit messages are lowercase :'( 02:18:34 was i suposed to upercase them 02:18:37 did i do soemthing wrong 02:18:38 heLP 02:18:57 the crawle repo uses "Blah blah blah blah." (but "Blah blah blah blah" is the git standard (but crawl adds .s too)) 02:19:00 its ok ill just judge you 02:19:08 also wouldn't it have been simpler to just 02:19:10 override crawl_state.game_is_sprint 02:19:10 i never should have comited 02:19:12 im just 02:19:13 asking 02:19:13 im not 02:19:15 that doesnt work 02:19:22 it was my first try 02:19:22 im not complaining!! im just judging 02:19:25 monqy: huh why not 02:19:27 but 02:19:30 just 02:19:32 out of ucriosirty 02:19:32 it tries to load sprint maps 02:19:33 but 02:19:41 oh 02:19:49 it doesnt have the sprint map thingy set so 02:19:51 it doesnt work 02:19:55 rip 02:20:10 defender->heal(1 + random2avg(7, 2), true); // heh heh 02:20:10 2159 defender->heal(1 + 7, true); // heh heh 02:20:11 heh heh 02:20:18 ("1 + 7" goode) 02:20:21 Transmogrify the tribbles (title without a dot in the end) 02:20:23 (empty line) 02:20:31 i expect the optomizer to catch that 02:20:40 const int damage = 5 + random2(10); 02:20:40 1950 const int damage = 5 + (10); 02:20:40 An optional longer explanation for the commit, potentially multiple lines/paragraphs. 02:20:42 goode 02:20:43 i think that's where distortion heals blink frogs 02:20:49 its the parens this time 02:20:50 not the number 02:20:56 beam.damage.num += 2; 02:20:56 1848 beam.damage.num *= 2; 02:20:59 thats not fair! 02:21:16 what did i do there i forget 02:21:21 im sure i had a good reason 02:21:21 i have no idae 02:21:23 *idea 02:21:29 ok im going to 02:21:31 compile monqys-crawl 02:21:38 "hav fun" 02:22:12 if i get it working maybe i'll remove identification or something "getting my toes wet in the water that is the crawl codebase" 02:22:21 oh right i remember why i did that thing 02:22:41 have you considered just 02:22:44 reverting that commit 02:22:48 in crawl when you lrd certain monsters it either instakills them or adds 2 damage 02:23:05 i got rid of the instakill and changed add 2 to multipl;y by 2 02:23:09 i think what i did was fair!! 02:23:17 i dont mean 02:23:18 that part 02:23:19 i mean al lthe 02:23:25 unrandomisde parts that made every monster either terrible or too good 02:23:43 :( 02:23:49 (maybe you should have split the lrd part into another commit!!!) 02:23:58 no 02:24:08 :'( -- the lrd part 02:24:11 "not good enough" -- the lrd part 02:24:31 wow its slow to downloade 02:26:09 ok it 02:26:10 s 02:26:11 downloaded 02:26:27 monqy: how do i build crawl :( 02:26:30 make 02:26:35 does -j3 work 02:26:39 duno 02:26:45 ais523: does -j3 work 02:26:54 probably not 02:27:06 im not going to remove unrandomisation but i'll probably twaeak it and also other monster-related things 02:27:08 ls: /Developer/SDKs: No such file or directory 02:27:08 Makefile:412: *** You do not seem to have any Mac OS X SDKs installed! This build is doomed to fail. Stop. 02:27:11 this makefile is out of date!!! 02:27:16 monqy: what do you have against random :'( 02:27:27 its kind of boring if fights are predetermined! 02:27:28 random in crawl is pretty annoying 02:27:38 doesn't have to be in monqys-crawl!! 02:28:20 monqy: will you accept patches to make it work with xcode 4.something 02:28:31 sure 02:29:07 ugh its 02:29:08 really ingrained 02:29:09 but really those should be going to the normal crawl gus 02:29:36 i dont want to associate with them!!! 02:29:51 fiine 02:30:04 wow the path is 02:30:07 /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs 02:31:59 Makefile:447: *** The Mac OS X /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs: SDK seems missing. Stop. 02:32:01 this is 02:32:02 a pain 02:32:13 yaey, crawl 02:33:16 argh this is 02:33:17 awful 02:33:25 im juts going to 02:33:26 hack it up 02:34:51 im git submodule update 02:35:01 monqy: how does it decide whether to build tiles or not 02:35:06 i bet it decides to tiles on os x 02:35:12 if you say make TILES=y it tileses 02:35:21 maybe make tiles makes tiles too 02:35:24 idk ive never made tiles 02:35:30 Cloning into 'crawl-ref/source/contrib/pcre'... 02:35:30 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly 02:35:30 Clone of 'git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-pcre.git' into submodule path 'crawl-ref/source/contrib/pcre' failed 02:35:31 help 02:35:35 oh now it works 02:35:44 ???? 02:35:53 it failed but 02:35:54 then it worked 02:35:57 im updating the submodules 02:37:06 No TILE defined for 'milk chocolate' 02:37:06 No TILE defined for 'dark chocolate' 02:37:07 oh NO!!! 02:38:53 * ion realized a brain/computer interface could be called a silicon implant. 02:39:13 could it? 02:41:06 crawl is slow to compile!!!!!!! 02:41:11 yes 02:41:14 you know what's fun 02:41:17 touching a header 02:41:22 and then everything recompiles 02:41:53 "c++" 02:42:26 herks-ghost 02:43:09 is this "ur permenant nikc" 02:43:43 CXX rltiles/tiledef-feat.o 02:43:44 help 02:43:47 looks like tiles to me ! 02:43:52 monqy: so uhhh 02:43:53 if i start ./crawl 02:43:56 will it put stuff in my home directory 02:44:06 i dont think so 02:44:10 "hop not" 02:44:18 but 02:44:22 high scores and stuff? 02:44:26 katia:source elliott$ ./crawl 02:44:27 ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16) 02:44:27 help. 02:44:34 that goes in source/something/somethingesel i think 02:44:40 ar you termckasting 02:44:45 help 02:44:49 it won't astart 02:44:50 katia:source elliott$ ./crawl 02:44:50 ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16) 02:44:52 should nt it be 02:44:53 24x24 02:44:56 oh no is it 02:44:57 is it broken 02:45:01 did it get broke 02:45:07 yes 02:45:08 it 02:45:11 prints that every time 02:45:13 git diff 02:45:15 :[ 02:45:17 maybe you have uncommitted stuffes 02:45:25 it doesnt say so!! 02:45:52 well 02:45:54 type make 02:45:55 does it work for you 02:46:14 as in 02:46:15 the resulting 02:46:15 binary 02:46:58 it works for me yes 02:47:11 d: 02:47:11 D: 02:47:13 make clean 02:47:13 make 02:47:18 also 02:47:20 you had a thing where you 02:47:22 deleted lots of files 02:47:26 was altar.des meant to be one of them 02:47:29 i guess not since 02:47:32 20x7 < 24x24 02:47:33 but uhhh 02:47:40 yeah make clean && make and maybe then it'll break? because 02:47:42 it thinks the maximum is 16x16 02:47:52 ok i made clean and am mak 02:51:33 ;_; 02:51:49 mak taks tim 02:52:36 you should add a new god called Maktakstim 02:52:45 it's the god of slowness O H W A I T 02:55:37 it uh 02:55:38 still works 02:55:41 ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 02:55:57 hlep 02:56:42 :'( 02:56:46 try cloning a new repo? 02:58:23 and then 02:58:24 building that 02:58:25 but uhhh 02:58:26 o-k 02:58:34 monqy: i think it might have built with tiles?? 02:58:40 waht 02:58:43 because 02:58:43 try 02:58:43 os x 02:58:45 building with 02:58:46 not tiles 02:58:52 should make TILES=n work 02:58:57 maybe ! 02:59:02 ＯＨ ＷＡＩＴ 03:01:00 tool/tile.cc:9:25: warning: SDL_image.h: No such file or directory 03:01:00 tool/tile.cc: In member function ‘bool tile::load(const std::string&)’: 03:01:00 tool/tile.cc:381: error: ‘IMG_Load’ was not declared in this scope 03:01:02 make[1]: *** [tool/tile.o] Error 1 03:01:04 make: *** [build-rltiles] Error 2 03:01:06 help 03:01:08 it did 03:01:10 make -C rltiles all ARCH=x86_64-apple-darwin11.3.0 TILES=n 03:01:41 monqy: where's the 03:01:42 building documentation 03:02:03 did oyu do the git submodule --init thing but really you shouldn--it's somewhere--'t need to build rltiles if you're not tiles ????? maybe crawls build just dum 03:02:20 monqy: where's the 03:02:21 building documentation 03:02:43 somewhere!! 03:03:04 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads try this i think it has some documentat 03:03:24 no theres 03:03:25 a file 03:03:26 with info 03:03:35 oh i forget where that is 03:03:39 "woops" 03:03:46 maybe it's in like 03:03:48 # Typical parameters: 03:03:48 # TILES -- set to anything to enable tiles build 03:03:49 the doc foler 03:03:50 nooooo thats misleading 03:03:51 or somethin 03:03:55 D: 03:03:59 that's awful 03:04:01 where's 03:04:03 the doc folder 03:04:09 the sourc tre 03:04:17 greet: 03:04:17 might be docs 03:04:17 @printf " * If you experience any problems building Crawl, please take a second look\\n"\ 03:04:17 " * at INSTALL.txt: the solution to your problem just might be in there!\\n" 03:04:19 thanks 03:05:25 Mac builds use the Unix build process described above, but require you 03:05:25 to add 'APPLE_GCC=y' to the 'make' command-line. In addition, to build the 03:05:25 graphical version of Crawl, you must add 'NO_PKGCONFIG=y' and 03:05:26 'CONTRIB_SDL=y'. 03:05:28 creis 03:05:33 im try 03:05:34 APPLE_GCC=y 03:05:43 monqy: can you check that 03:05:45 dat/des/altar/altar.des 03:05:46 exists for oyu 03:05:49 *you 03:06:15 it does 03:06:16 im all headachey and bleh i blame crawl 03:06:34 im make from the fresh clone now 03:10:28 little did know when monqy forked crawl 03:10:31 that he would have to support it 03:10:40 D: 03:10:47 i dont want to support it can i unfork it 03:11:00 no 03:11:07 theres no going back 03:12:06 jerks-ghost: why are you called "jerks-ghost", jerks-ghost 03:14:13 monqy: did it work 03:14:36 ok FINALLY it break 03:15:14 ok now 03:15:18 monqy: diff your two directories 03:15:19 or 03:15:20 something 03:15:23 oh wait! 03:15:24 try 03:15:26 git diff --cached 03:15:30 in the 03:15:34 old directory 03:15:34 or just 03:15:38 diff the two directories but i'd do that first 03:18:20 monqy: if diff says theres no differences ill 03:18:22 scream 03:19:05 screm 03:19:47 -!- TeruFSX2 has changed nick to TeruFSX. 03:19:54 monqy: are you srs 03:19:55 did you 03:19:57 diff it correctly 03:20:10 diff -r dir1 dir2 03:20:16 uh -u too i guess 03:20:58 the onlllllly thing i can find that diffffers that i think might make adifference is 03:21:09 saves/des 03:21:22 hmmm 03:21:34 looks suspicious to me!!! 03:21:35 sure enough i remvo and it break 03:21:44 well 03:21:51 but now what went wrong !! 03:21:52 the error is 03:21:55 03:45 ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16) 03:21:58 so i bet somewhere you have 16 03:21:59 where you meant 24 03:22:05 I love assumptions like this in math questions: “The person is entirely made of water, which weighs 1kg/L.” 03:22:07 like you divided by two once too many or something!!! 03:22:11 so uh 03:22:12 fix that 03:22:22 at least there's not many places it can be 03:22:32 D: 03:23:09 i can even 03:23:12 narrow it down 03:23:15 ok 03:23:24 its either 03:23:25 http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl/commit/934ebc7df7933d82e37bf959b5e62c749a2efffc 03:23:29 or http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl/commit/fc9667dff88582d60a78de5b4bc36074c69dcb98 (<-- less likely) 03:26:06 i'll think about it when i have less homwork 03:26:16 monqy: hi does elliott have me on /ignore 03:26:24 I don't know. 03:26:33 or does he just h8 me :( 03:26:37 I don't know. 03:27:05 what is that thing at the end of your sentence 03:27:14 thing 03:27:27 oh i have to go "oops" 03:27:37 bonqy 03:29:00 i may never get to play monqys-crawl :'( 03:38:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:44:34 -!- quintopia has joined. 04:01:23 -!- quintopia has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:01:36 -!- jerks-ghost has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:03:23 -!- quintopia has joined. 04:16:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:19:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:29:02 -!- madbr has joined. 04:32:42 -!- zzo38 has set topic: It looks like a pipe, but it is not. Anemometers don't fire bullets. Not even the explosive ones! Or I don't think they do ... if they do, meteorologists are more hardcore than I thought possible. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:33:31 ceci n'est pas une pipe? 04:40:23 OK 04:58:08 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 05:08:46 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 06:01:12 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 06:01:28 Ceci n'est pas une "ceci n'est pas une pipe". 06:01:52 why is french weirde 06:02:07 it should be like english 06:02:33 The French musta thought English should be more like French. 06:02:38 Hence the invasion. 06:03:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:04:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 06:12:00 latin meets german did it 06:15:13 Who is Arthur Mometer? 06:15:58 -!- zzo38 has set topic: It looks like a pipe, but it is not. Astronomers don't fire bullets. Not even the explosive ones! Or I don't think they do ... if they do, meteors are even more hardcore than I thought possible. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 06:26:21 @tell elliott By the way, the "unordered tuple" thing is just n-choose-k. 06:26:21 Consider it noted. 06:26:52 @telliott 06:26:52 Unknown command, try @list 06:27:11 thion 06:36:34 @tell elliott OK, maybe not quite. 06:36:34 Consider it noted. 06:38:27 unordered tuple? multiset? 06:40:38 @tell elliott (n + k - 1) choose (k - 1)? 06:40:38 Consider it noted. 06:40:47 monqy: Of a particular size. 06:40:57 right 06:41:25 I've heard that (n + k - 1) choose (k - 1) thing called "multichoose" too 06:42:19 shachaf, do you know why -fstack-protector would have a much higher relative performance impact on an Atom N270 than a Core 2 Duo? 06:42:28 monqy: I haven't heard that. 06:42:44 I have! 06:42:50 kmc: Nope. 06:42:55 Any more details? 06:43:12 that's about all i have 06:43:22 How did you measure it? 06:43:40 also i used GCC 4.4 and 4.6 respectively, so that might be it 06:43:51 shachaf: ran a Mosh benchmark program a few times 06:44:16 You should try profiling it. 06:44:23 No idea whether that'll yield any insights. 06:44:42 function-level profiling probably will not 06:44:50 since each function has its own copy of the stack-check code 06:45:16 ...that could be why, actually. 06:45:21 i-cache blowout 06:45:34 Right, instruction-level profiling. 06:45:50 i don't know how to do that, and i don't know if the Atom has the right CPU features 06:45:58 That seems like a reasonable theory. How much code does it actually generate? 06:46:19 The Linux program "perf" makes at least some kinds of instruction-level profiling pretty easy, I think. 06:46:23 There's also oprofile. 06:46:40 i also don't have the Atom machine handy anymore :/ 06:47:01 You should use perf anyway! 06:47:06 It's nifty. 06:47:06 maybe 06:48:05 i was also thinking it could be bad branch prediction 06:48:12 basically i can only speculate 06:49:02 kmc: apt-get install linux-base # maybe?; perf record ./blah; perf annotate 06:54:13 monqy: thonqy 06:54:18 Good operation. 06:55:01 shachaf: on amd64 it adds at least 25 bytes to each function 06:55:39 -fstack-protector is for people who make mistakes. Just don't make mistakes. 06:55:46 seriously 07:01:35 i write all my source code compressed to save keystrokes 07:03:21 You might as well write the binary directly then because making changes to any part of that code will entail rewriting most of it 07:04:39 hmm.. i write the binary compressed.. 07:07:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:09:09 PK A,8 07:09:12 If you write the binary directly, it makes the program less portable and less adjustable, I would think. Still, for sufficiently small and simple programs it may be useful. 07:09:35 it requires a lot of messing around with the Alt key though 07:09:45 itidus21: Is this in ZIP format? 07:10:00 lol. wow.. nice spotting. 07:10:15 The "PK" kind of gave it away 07:10:17 its not quite genuine though.. i faked some parts of it 07:10:40 yes.. for all those people who know that zip files start with a PK when viewed as ascii :P 07:10:47 The PK followed by CTRL+C and CTRL+D is what made me realize; these are the first four bytes of any ZIP file. 07:10:47 its a dead giveaway :-s 07:11:11 the rest of the code is faked with spaces etc 07:11:58 humm.. im just being silly of course 07:13:50 i was inspired by shachaf's comment about not making mistakes 07:14:30 itidus21: you're a Real Hacker 07:16:15 shachaf: the code gets about 12% bigger with stack-smashing protection 07:16:18 (on 32-bit now) 07:16:21 i'm not trying to hide the fact i took a zipfile(instead of traditionally open compression format) and opened it in Windows wordpad and pasted the first few chars 07:17:11 or the fact that producing source code in compressed format would be computationally more expensive 07:17:55 kmc: That's a bigger increase than I thought. 07:18:00 i guess that... could explain a 20% performance hit? 07:18:05 not sure 07:18:06 Maybe? 07:18:10 You should profile it. :-) 07:18:19 i don't know if I care enough to dig deep on this 07:18:24 but it would be cool to learn how to do that 07:18:30 but i have so many other things i could do 07:18:40 i'm going to blog post it and hope someone else tells me the answer 07:18:41 but i think it would be cool in a sci fi kind of way to be able to type data in compressed format 07:19:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand 07:19:16 kmc: I would measure it but I don't have a program or an Atom CPU handy. 07:19:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype 07:19:36 But perf etc. can measure icache misses pretty easily, I think. 07:19:39 court stenographers are the true cyberpunk heros 07:19:41 yeah 07:19:56 the program is in Mosh; i can send you a link 07:20:07 I heard of that program once. 07:20:46 hm oh I do have an Atom machine I forgot about 07:20:53 but it's running a weird Linux distro 07:21:10 Doesn't make a big difference, I think. 07:21:11 also it's not the same one I did the original measurements on 07:21:26 If you can't reproduce the original measurements on, even better! 07:21:28 and it's not turned on 07:21:34 Ouch. 07:21:35 so I'd have to walk all the way upstairs 07:21:38 OK, unpossible. 07:21:45 it's not even plugged in, man! 07:22:10 grr 07:22:22 the forces of curiosity and laziness are doing battle in my head 07:23:00 You can do it, laziness! 07:23:03 unpossible = simpsons reference 1. maybe. airconditioner fighting the heater in the rental car is the second. 07:23:34 kmc: You should "learn" to do simple instruction-level profiling. 07:23:37 It's fun to a point. 07:23:43 And perf has this fancy TUI. 07:24:42 ok fine i'll at least see if perf can get cache misses on atom 07:25:06 i'll use the same Atom machine I used before (but not the same OS install) 07:25:12 which is not ideal because it's under load 07:25:21 Load? 07:25:59 oh, wait, no I don't have that machine at all 07:26:04 it's in new york city 07:26:16 too many netbooks 07:26:40 the one i have has a 900 MHz Celeron M, not an Atom 07:29:51 fuck it 07:29:58 let the internet sort this one out 07:32:31 LAZINESS WINS AGAIN 07:34:08 shachaf: it's 12% bigger because we stack protect *every* function 07:34:18 Just protect the ones with bugs in them. 07:34:22 even the ones with no buffers 07:34:34 shachaf: i might have to upgrade gcc to get that feature 07:35:21 kmc: Did you know Either (Nat,Nat) Nat is an even type, but (Nat,Nat) isn't? 07:35:47 shachaf: Better: annotate the ones with bugs in them. 07:36:00 Then, you can stick every single statement in its own function! 07:36:37 @tell elliott Did you know Either (Nat,Nat) Nat is an even type, but (Nat,Nat) isn't? Becuase of the extra diagonal. 07:36:37 Consider it noted. 07:36:52 what's an even type? 07:37:14 @tell elliott Also it's actually just (n + k - 1) choose k, for the sensible value of k 07:37:14 Consider it noted. 07:37:21 kmc: A type you can divide by 2. 07:37:31 For example Bool is even but Maybe Bool isn't. 07:37:45 i didn't read that paper on quotient types or whatever 07:37:51 I didn't either. 07:37:55 ok 07:38:06 well then 07:38:07 Just #haskell-blah gossip with dolio. 07:38:27 kmc: It makes some sense for (n^2 + n) to be even for any value of n. 07:38:35 00:33 < dolio> The reason is, I guess, that Left (n, n) is the same as Right n, and Left (m, n) is the same as Left (n, m), so there are two of every thing you want to make into one element. 07:38:38 00:34 < dolio> You can't just divide Nat * Nat by 2, though, because there is only one of each of the diagonal. 07:38:42 00:34 < dolio> You have to add an extra diagonal to it. 07:41:06 I know what even finite types are but even infinite types are a bit weirder. 07:41:32 Maybe Nat is also even. 07:41:43 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:41:58 I'm not sure either makes sense. 07:42:02 Nat = 1 + Nat, after all. 07:46:32 Tell me what half of (Either (Nat,Nat) Nat) is? 07:47:12 An unordered pair of Nats. 07:48:16 OK 07:48:27 Prove it 07:48:31 Well, in general for a finite type x, (x^2+x)/2 is an unordered pair of xs. 07:48:47 zzo38: See dolio's thing above for a mapping. 07:49:06 I'm not sure that it's valid for infinite types, but take it for arbitrary finite types instead. :-) 07:55:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:02:06 doesn't even type just mean there's a cycle of length two through which you can create a quotient 08:02:55 because if yes then it's fairly obvious anything with a binary choice in series with other type features will be even 08:04:18 i liked dolio's explanation 08:04:53 i really like the fact that this channel is talking about haskell, even though it's not really an esolang 08:07:01 OR IS IT?????? 08:07:02 It isn't? 08:07:12 esolang is in the eye of the beholder 08:07:14 well i use it at my job 08:07:21 oh really 08:07:23 it's totally in the industry 08:07:27 what do you use it for? 08:07:35 did you tell #haskell? did they cream their pants? 08:07:41 i told you the last thing i used it for 08:07:41 kmc +1 08:07:50 and you creamed your pants 08:07:53 oh 08:07:55 i don't remember 08:08:01 except that was a lie because your pants were probably off already 08:08:04 yeah 08:08:09 there's really no reason to wear pants 08:08:16 unless you're having guests 08:08:20 (yeah right) 08:08:59 yeah when i have guests over, i have to put pants on 08:09:02 sometimes they come off though 08:09:35 like when the mormons come over for a bible talk? 08:09:44 yes 08:09:48 love thy brother 08:10:21 highlight of yesterday's visit to hi-fi tradeshow: audiophile breakers 08:11:46 gold-plated contacts n' all 08:15:24 circuit breakers? 08:15:32 yea 08:15:43 the stuff that's in your breaker box 08:15:43 data Zero; data UnordNatTag :: * -> * where { Z :: UnordNatTag Zero; S :: UnordNatTag x -> UnordNatTag (Maybe x); }; type UnordNatPair = DSum UnordNatTag; Is this a correct way of an unordered pair of natural numbers? 08:15:55 wow 08:15:58 that's a hell of an industry 08:16:02 i should get into it 08:16:06 cocaine's a hell of a drug 08:16:07 do they have special food for audiophiles yet? 08:16:11 they have special food for gamers 08:16:16 they do? 08:16:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:16:25 i've seen special food for geeks 08:16:27 ubuntu cola 08:16:31 haha 08:16:33 you seen ubuntu cola? 08:16:36 it's a thing in london 08:16:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Cola 08:16:56 http://www.gamergrub.com/ 08:17:04 nice 08:17:17 looks like it's not really related to the OS? 08:17:21 no 08:17:28 it's still an african scam though 08:17:29 too bad 08:17:35 419 cola 08:17:40 ++ 08:18:04 419 scam westerners every day 08:18:06 You can do much better than audiophile stuff. 08:18:09 Homeopathy! 08:18:09 "boost your game with gamer grub" 08:18:13 how fucking quaint 08:18:25 pikhq_: oh yeah, that's really good too 08:18:32 so anyways 08:18:33 Actually, combine them. 08:18:39 Homeopathic audiophile equipment. 08:19:07 this western electric stuff, i've seen a recreation of it 08:19:15 just one tweeter cost 9000 euro 08:19:19 "Each box contains a 50X solution of Sennheiser headphones, making your audio experience the best it can be!" 08:19:29 and it's like an electromagnet and a small horn and that's it 08:19:43 nothing you couldn't do on a rotary mill 08:21:28 Do you know answer for my question above? 08:23:13 not i, perhaps try to explain your reasoning? 08:24:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:24:55 I am using the DSum type from "dependent-sum" package; it is defined as follows: data DSum tag = forall a. !(tag a) :=> a 08:28:12 This way may be better: data UnordNatTag :: * -> * where { Z :: UnordNatTag (Maybe Zero); S :: UnordNatTag (Maybe x) -> UnordNatTag (Maybe (Maybe x)); }; 08:30:09 It does seem to work; it is not really unordered but the larger number must come first so it acts like just two natural numbers put in one box where you don't know the order 08:36:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:38:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:38:42 Hello 08:38:57 getUNP :: UnordNatPair -> (Integer, Integer); getUNP (Z :=> Nothing) = (0, 0); getUNP (S x :=> Nothing) = (\(a, b) -> (succ a, b)) $ getUNP (x :=> Nothing); getUNP (S x :=> Just y) = (\(a, b) -> (succ a, succ b)) $ getUNP (x :=> y); 08:39:47 putUNP :: (Integer, Integer) -> UnordNatPair; putUNP (0, 0) = (Z :=> Nothing); putUNP (x, y) | x < 0 || y < 0 = error "Cannot use negative numbers here"; putUNP (x, y) | x < y = putUNP (y, x); putUNP (x, 0) = case (putUNP (pred x, 0)) of { (Z :=> Nothing) -> (S Z :=> Nothing); (S a :=> Nothing) -> (S (S a) :=> Nothing); }; putUNP (x, y) = case (putUNP (pred x, pred y)) of { (Z :=> b) -> (S Z :=> Just b); (S a :=> b) -> (S (S a) :=> Just b); }; 08:42:12 It works for me. 08:48:23 @ping 08:48:23 pong 08:49:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:49:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:49:57 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:54:15 ping....ouch..... 08:54:54 :P 08:58:44 -!- shubshub has joined. 08:58:48 Hi 08:59:19 @ping 08:59:19 pong 08:59:25 interesting. 08:59:37 Hai cheater 08:59:59 !ping 09:00:04 Pong! 09:00:16 !!!Batch a 09:01:06 Who delted my interp!!!!!!!! 09:01:19 My brother called mahjong players that called sequences a lot, a "chii"ter 09:01:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: DOING OTHER THINGS). 09:03:14 DONR IGNORE ME! 09:03:45 OK 09:03:47 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:03:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:04:15 Who deleted my user interp! 09:04:28 I don't know 09:04:32 .... 09:05:02 * shubshub needs another fejoa 09:08:39 what's that 09:08:54 fruit?- 09:09:08 is it delicious 09:13:23 yes 09:13:40 Ihave a huge fejoa tree in my yard 09:25:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: That is what happens when you burn your finger on an ash tray). 09:44:21 Why am I good at being awake at unreasonable hours? 09:44:42 It's a skill, all right. 09:45:16 Least desirable skill. 09:45:27 Am I turning into elliott? 09:45:37 lol 09:45:52 I've got the "awake at stupid hours and complaining about it" bit down, at least. 09:46:03 * shubshub should start playing dwarf fortress 09:46:11 Turning into elliott: also a useful skill. 09:46:16 Why 09:46:21 Playing Dwarf Fortress: a useful skills. 09:46:25 Also the hubris. But that just comes with being a programmer. 09:46:35 (there are so many skills involved) 09:46:38 How is that useful :P and whats hubris? 09:47:49 Phantom_Hoover: how is playing dwarf fortress a usefull skill? 09:48:14 suppose you find yourself stuck in the wilderness with 6 other dwarves and a wagon full of supplies 09:48:16 what now 09:48:48 -!- Ngevd has joined. 09:48:51 Phantom_Hoover: I suffer from miasma. 09:49:03 Hello 09:49:39 Ngevd, do you feel you could survive indefinitely given only a square of lightless dirt, one plump helmet seed and a rock. 09:49:59 lul 09:50:08 Phantom_Hoover, probably 09:50:28 Assuming I had some space next to the dirt 09:50:37 Oh, fair point. 09:50:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:50:48 Phantom_Hoover: Can't farm that seed without a hoe and a water block. 09:50:58 * shubshub got his DSTT working :P 09:51:04 Hahaha pikhq_ is stupid minecrafter. 09:51:05 pikhq_, it's dirt, you can use your hands 09:51:22 pikhq_, and Plump Helmets are pretty hardy 09:51:34 You only need water for bare cave floors, and moving it to the farm should always be a colossal undertaking. 09:51:38 It is the Dwarven Way. 09:51:57 The only dwarves I like are in Boatmurdered. 09:52:00 My advice is don't try to make an underground fishing plaza 09:52:06 It's not worth it 09:52:27 I made one by accident in Rosyarrow. 09:53:50 aaaaah that Peaceful Dragon Quest 9 Music ATLAST :D 09:53:55 (It was meant to be a well.) 09:54:02 (That didn't really work out.) 09:54:17 and it freezes...... 09:54:53 Maybe DQH Rocket slimes is better then :P 09:55:06 :D 09:55:27 Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slimes FTW 10:00:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGA7kGPEVPE "Drunk teacher" 10:01:13 All of my fortresses that have ended for reasons other than boredom or goblins, have ended due to underground fishing plazas 10:01:43 SPACE INVADERS!!!! 10:06:59 -!- cheater__ has joined. 10:10:46 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:22:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:31:36 -!- cswords has joined. 10:34:10 -!- cswords__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:40:54 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: Its Illegal). 10:41:36 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:42:29 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:46:19 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:50:26 -!- Ngevd has joined. 10:53:37 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 10:55:37 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Client Quit). 10:56:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:14:38 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:17:26 shachaf: i'm playing with perf now 11:21:01 kind of insane to run a short test program and see "98,469,751,820 instructions" 11:21:08 i'm still not really used to how fast computers are 11:29:07 -!- nortti has joined. 11:30:22 -!- derdon has joined. 11:39:07 sasl still requires a bit of tweaking (you can't use autoconnect) but I have moustly solved my problems like irssi crashing 11:39:29 -!- Ngevd has joined. 11:53:55 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:56:43 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:06:46 -!- itidus20 has joined. 12:08:29 -!- ion has joined. 12:10:10 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:11:22 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:13:32 Hello 12:13:37 I'm in a Taneb mood 12:13:39 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 12:13:52 `? Ngevd 12:13:56 `? Taneb 12:14:07 ​:mt"4}*.J<,C.).Y?;H.sܭ~~Fv..$:..؀|]&.}Dt7C9.Sl-O9.Ӝ.O-g[XPwU{%.|,.tvڛ3q.ZeQ.ie=hߑ..e2w8M2ND/ZWj/.'a.*{t..6.؋2f7tZayj.%5d$ʠKK..PyEqnhS*f"4..uI.pvqI.fe. \ HÚNO.K1u.5M&g. 12:14:16 Taneb ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:14:38 `? nortti 12:14:40 nortti? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:16:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:17:04 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 12:17:07 I knew that. 12:18:47 `? elliott 12:18:51 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 12:26:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:51:02 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 12:58:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:59:29 shachaf: i'm unable to reproduce the performance hit on my other atom machine :/ 12:59:52 and stack protector does not make a large difference in the number of branches or branch mispredictions 13:34:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 13:35:46 what's a user interp? 13:36:23 -!- itidus22 has joined. 13:40:37 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:53:07 oklopol: it interps users 13:53:50 kmc: maybe one of your machines is compiled for atom's funny machine code and not for x86? 13:54:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:56:36 what's that cheater__? 13:56:42 do you mean LPIA? 13:57:11 no idea, i remember atom has its own set of instructions that it translatex x86 to 13:57:18 it can also be fed that directly 13:57:24 there was ubuntu for that i think 13:57:32 or debian or something 13:57:57 i think you're thinking of lpia 13:58:14 i might be 13:58:15 which isn't really a different instruction set, just a different set of optimization options 13:58:21 as i understand it 13:58:28 right 13:58:44 was supported by ubuntu for a little while, but it never took off and got desupported 13:58:47 i thought atom was actually some sort of risced thing 13:59:00 yeah, i heard they shut it down when it brought no improvement at all 13:59:34 so what's up kmc 13:59:36 i mean all (?) x86 implementations use microcode 13:59:54 yeah 13:59:58 you can sort of consider that 'translating to RISC' but Atom is not special in this regard, afaik 14:00:20 yeah but you can't normally feed the cpu its microcode 14:00:21 can you 14:00:27 no 14:00:35 sometimes you can upload new microcode 14:00:40 can u 14:00:41 to fix bugs with particular instructions, or add new ones 14:00:55 can you do that on any desktop intels 14:01:06 but that's more like redefining a single instruction; you can't upload an arbitrarily long stream of microcode and say "execute this" afaik 14:01:11 think so 14:01:37 is that because of the pentium floating point mult fiasco 14:01:55 hm I doubt that would be fixable in microcode anyway 14:01:56 but i don't know 14:03:24 so what are you trying to do on atom? 14:03:40 sounds like something being done for work 14:05:04 Transmeta implemented x86 with a software JIT sort of thing and a chip with their own VLIW architecture 14:05:24 or is it a super duper secret ksploracle project you're working on 14:05:37 ksplorificle 14:05:43 and of course you can JIT x86 to RISC architectures not explicitly designed for it 14:05:46 using qemu 14:05:57 that's pretty cute 14:06:17 i like how qemu does every thing you can imagine 14:06:30 and the Loongson 3 variant of MIPS has a bunch of extra instructions to make that JITted code faster 14:06:36 specifically for x86 14:06:43 i don't work for ksploracle 14:07:06 lately i have been working on http://mosh.mit.edu/ 14:07:11 as a volunteer / open source thing 14:07:41 the only thing i've been doing lately is working out 14:07:47 one thing i did was add automatic binary hardening -- stack protector, position independent code, etc. 14:07:51 i should start doing like, geeky stuff again 14:07:59 and so I wanted to see how much performance this cost 14:08:05 and one of my test machines was this atom netbook 14:08:29 was it a huge hit 14:08:35 and it got a surprisingly large hit from stack protector 14:08:42 and I'm not sure why 14:08:46 so that's what I'm trying to figure out 14:09:05 how many colors does mosh support 14:10:04 turning on all the hardening cost like 29% on the netbook 14:10:36 how much was it on a normal pc thing 14:10:41 negligible? 14:10:55 17% on another 32-bit Atom system 14:11:09 4% on my Core 2 Duo laptop 14:11:20 2% on my Phenom II desktop 14:11:36 it's expected that position-independent code has a 5-10% performance penalty on 32-bit x86 14:11:50 have you thought that maybe it's just a constant amount of performance being eaten 14:12:04 and since an atom has overall much less performance that constant amount is a higher percentage 14:12:24 but I'm not sure why stack protector should have another 20% on top of that, for the one atom only 14:12:27 yeah, that might be 14:16:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:17:34 comparing the speeds of the two atom machines just about accounts for 29% vs 17% hit 14:17:45 but on the former, like 80% of the performance hit goes away if you disable stack protector 14:17:55 and on the latter only like 40% 14:19:00 but it's all a bit iffy 14:19:06 there are various other differences, like GCC version 14:23:23 i'm not trying to do rigorous science here 14:23:33 just to get an idea of how much it costs us 14:23:49 really that's already settled and I'm just writing up a blog post for other people who want to add hardening to their autoconf projects 14:27:27 cheater__: mosh supports 256 colors, if the outer terminal does 14:28:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:32:22 k 14:32:37 does vim work well over mosh 14:33:56 yeah 14:35:47 that's all i need 14:36:22 cool cool 14:36:31 i mainly use it for irssi 14:36:58 i tire of chatting in fixed fonts quickly 14:37:04 heh 14:37:22 whereas i swiched from xchat to irssi so i could have a persistent session over mosh :) 14:37:33 http://www.dangerousmusic.com/ass.html 14:37:35 gotta do the same for aim / gchat 14:37:49 haha 14:37:51 yeah i kinda don't give a fuck about that 14:38:12 it's mostly, look on irc, see if you can have fun for n minutes, leave 14:38:20 heh 14:38:26 having scrollback is useful but only marginally 14:38:55 i've been on connections which are too shit to connect to irc at all 14:38:59 but mosh works ok 14:39:10 really 14:39:15 also if you're in the middle of a conversation and need to switch from wifi to cell or such 14:39:18 then the roaming is nice 14:39:19 that's pretty impressive 14:39:28 that it works better than irc that is 14:39:31 i can see why 14:39:35 but i'm still surprised 14:39:46 yeah, IRC is TCP-based 14:39:56 TCP does not do well with non-congestive packet loss 14:40:17 yea 14:40:39 kmc: would you put these in your house http://hifiheroin.blogspot.de/2012/04/munich-high-end-2012-preview.html 14:40:45 and it will drop entirely if you go too long without an ack 14:41:04 whereas a mosh session will survive arbitrarily long and will come back within 3 seconds if the network comes up 14:41:30 yea 14:41:32 i can take my laptop on the subway and use my mosh sessions for the one bit where it comes out of the ground to go over the bridge between Boston and Cambridge 14:41:34 why 3 seconds? 14:41:43 is 3 seconds a built in delay or something? 14:41:43 that's the heartbeat packet interval 14:41:47 ok 14:48:41 kmc, the mobile shell, or something else? 14:48:51 (See? I did Google!) 14:48:53 cheater__: speaking of qemu have you used ubuntu's magical qemulated chroots? 14:49:17 Sgeo: i'm talking about http://mosh.mit.edu/ 14:49:26 kmc, ah, so yes 14:51:51 No Windows client :( 14:52:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:55:01 " The heartbeats allow Mosh to inform the user when it hasn't heard from the server in a while (unlike SSH, where users may be unaware of a dropped connection until they try to type)." 14:55:03 I love it already 14:55:08 mosh-1.2 works in Cygwin, maybe 14:55:17 some people say it does, some say it doesn't 14:55:36 the core mosh team doesn't use Windows 14:56:08 * ais523 tries to explain the may bank holiday to non-british people 14:56:32 (elliott and ngevd, when they logread this, will understand why that's amusing) 14:56:45 (or maybe not, if they assume that every country works like that) 14:56:53 what's the amusing part? 14:57:33 kmc: it's a holiday that doesn't commemorate anything 14:57:42 most countries have too many holidays to celebrate one thing or another 14:58:00 the UK doesn't have enough, so it adds a couple at convenient times of year just because people need a holiday 14:58:06 heh 14:58:12 so it's not a May Day labour thing? 14:58:18 no 14:58:25 well, hmm, perhaps it was originally, I'll check wikipedia 14:59:23 :Q: Does mosh work with Amazon EC2? 14:59:23 Yes, it works great, but please remember to open up UDP ports 6000061000 on the EC2 firewall.: 14:59:39 hmm, seems it was originally created by merging 8¼ saint's days (on average) and the day after whitsun 14:59:43 Did I seriously use : as a quote character? 14:59:50 And why does mosh need so many ports? 14:59:54 kmc: what are magical qemulated chroots good for? 15:00:08 in an attempt to cut down on the excessive number of saint's days 15:00:08 US labor day is pretty decoupled from actual labor stuff for most people 15:00:11 *saints' days 15:00:15 but this may reflect my white-collar upbringing 15:00:23 Sgeo: it doesn't need them all at once, just one per session 15:00:39 oh, wait, no, that's late spring bank holiday 15:00:44 mosh-server picks the first available port in that range 15:00:53 first monday in may is a purely arbitrary one indeed 15:01:09 so if you only need 5 concurrent sessions, you only need open 5 ports 15:01:25 ais523: cool 15:01:33 i think japan has some holidays like that too 15:01:41 and was only added in 1978; surprisingly recent 15:02:05 kmc: why doesn't it reuse the port 15:02:16 kmc: that sort of sux doesn't it 15:02:39 there is no persistent mosh daemon 15:02:54 each session launches its own mosh-server process 15:03:10 they could be different users running different versions of mosh-server they compiled separately 15:03:20 and so the easiest way to get packets to the right place is for each session to use its own port 15:04:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Japan 15:05:33 Massachusetts has one extra official public holiday compared to the US federal govt 15:05:40 this year it fell on Tax Day 15:05:42 great fun 15:16:04 Heegan 15:16:21 Isn't perf fun? 15:17:24 kmc: holiday clashes are impossible in the UK 15:17:35 this sometimes leads to Christmas being moved to dec 26, if it would naturally fall on a sunday 15:17:41 (and thus boxing day moved to dec 27) 15:17:48 although everyone celebrates it on dec 25 anyway 15:18:21 hais523 15:18:40 -shachaf- 15:18:54 I'm not sure what *that* means. 15:19:02 I didn't think you would be 15:19:07 but it means hi, sort of 15:19:13 shachaf: fun enough 15:19:19 probably only elliott could get it, and that doesn't mean he /would/ 15:19:34 as it involves cross-referencing multiple inside mems 15:19:36 *memes 15:19:36 kmc: that's not the simplest, it's just the laziest 15:19:54 oh yeah cheater__? 15:20:00 imo simplest is for mosh to use a shared resource 15:20:26 a shared resource installed by a sysadmin? that's a non-starter for a lot of our users 15:20:56 no, you can have the process instantiate one locally if it's not found system-wide 15:21:00 a big selling point of mosh is that you can compile it in your homedir and use it right away without any administrative intervention 15:21:08 cheater__: local for that user only? 15:21:11 yeah, that doesn't change 15:21:11 yes 15:21:18 so you still have the problem of multiple ports 15:21:39 and you've added significant complexity to make this agent relay packets around 15:21:39 so one user ends up using one port at most 15:21:40 and at the least, all users just use one port 15:21:43 for what gain? 15:21:58 you only have the problem in a fairly stupid situation 15:22:27 one which happens but does not happen to often 15:22:33 so kmc, you never told me what those qemu'ed chroots were good for 15:22:43 can you have an arm chroot? 15:22:48 what stupid situation? 15:22:49 yeah cheater__ 15:22:54 or a 32 bit chroot on a 64 bit system? 15:22:56 k 15:23:07 you run a simple command or two and you get a chroot full of ARM binaries on an x86 Linux machine 15:23:11 which automatically execute through qemu 15:23:12 the stupid situation is that there's no system-wide support for mosh 15:23:24 which only ever happens on multiuser systems 15:23:39 and let's be honest here, it's not like people do this sort of thing these days 15:23:39 but they talk to your real kernel, not some emulated ARM machine 15:23:52 it's not like people run their BitchX from grex.org anymore 15:24:19 or try to hack the modified bsd kernel of cyberspace.org to be able to run 'drops 15:24:31 as a mosh developer i'm really glad that Mosh doesn't have a persistent daemon or anything setuid / setgid or anything that runs as root 15:24:44 well you don't need to have a persistent daemon 15:24:46 i'm reluctant to throw that away for the cause of saving a few UDP ports 15:24:53 since there's 2^16 of them 15:24:56 you just have the first one that starts up handle everything 15:25:02 and persist until everything quits 15:25:10 anyway I still don't see what problem this solves really 15:25:14 it's certainly not the simplest solution 15:25:26 not having to open port ranges 15:25:34 ideally you just want a single port 15:25:37 huge port ranges are unmanageable 15:26:25 schroot itself is also pretty slick 15:26:37 it's used for the debian package build infrastructure, among other things 15:26:49 a nice way to enter chroots and also have ephemeral copy-on-write clones of existing chroots 15:27:26 -!- augur has joined. 15:28:49 cheater__ i don't see why you said "your solution is not simplest, just laziest" and then proceeded to describe a solution which is emphatically less simple, though it has certain advantages 15:29:03 main advantage to a single port is that it's easier to firewall 15:29:10 i guess in general the way engineers argue is they pick different definitions of the word "simple" 15:29:41 kmc: it's the simplest from the user's point of view 15:29:53 it's not the simplest from the developer's point of view 15:30:17 it's better from the user's view, but arguably more complicated 15:30:27 because you still need to explain about port ranges, in the multi-user case 15:30:39 and you also need to explain about this extra daemon that stays running 15:30:49 and about the unix socket or whatever it uses to talk to the mosh-servers 15:32:36 i know corporate IT security doesn't like to open too many ports 15:33:02 but is identifying a mosh session by a UDP port number really any worse than identifying it with a 16-bit number immediately inside the UDP packet? 15:33:18 kmc: not beyond the firewall 15:33:33 but configuring it correctly is awkward because many firewalls don't have obvious support for port ranges 15:33:57 arguably the port number is better for security; it's easier to correlate port numbers with users and mosh-server processes 15:34:34 i guess that's so 15:35:10 my firewall config is just an iptables shell script and so i used a shell loop :) 15:35:16 (though i think iptables also has range support) 15:43:12 -!- elliott has joined. 15:43:20 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 15:43:20 -!- elliott has joined. 15:46:12 multiple ports is just very impractical 15:46:21 and it's not like explaining my scheme is that difficult 15:47:39 "mosh will use a single port for all sessions if it can, but it might have to use more ports due to permissions. You can read about the exact scheme in [7]." 15:47:53 99.999999999% of all people using it will not need to read [7] 15:48:29 wow 15:48:42 even if every person on earth is a Mosh user, only 7% of one person will need to read that link 15:50:08 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:55:29 -!- itidus21 has joined. 15:57:56 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:59:05 anyway it's not impossible we will implement some kind of multiplexer 15:59:47 i think what's more likely is that we'll use hole punching techniques (as do Skype and many other applications) to make both directions of UDP traffic look "outgoing" to firewalls 16:01:51 kmc: i like ur math 16:05:06 kmc: do you think there's an actual real reason to use quemu chroots? 16:05:07 i'm thinking, the one thing i am missing with linuxes right now is the ability to migrate a 32 bit system to 64 bit 16:05:07 it really really sucks there isn't anything to do it 16:05:08 so maybe this sort of thing is necessary 16:07:03 i used it for testing and debugging the ARM build of Mosh 16:07:08 on my amd64 desktop 16:07:20 this was much more pleasant than using a whole system emulated arm system 16:07:23 which i have also done 16:07:49 qemu is not necessary for running 32-bit binaries on 64-bit kernel of the same architecture family, usually 16:08:29 disabling 32-bit compat on a multi-user system is a savvy security move 16:08:34 but i don't think many people do it 16:11:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:12:16 hello 16:12:28 yeah but still, you can't migrate 32 bit to 64 bit 16:12:28 at least that i know of 16:12:28 do you know of a way? 16:12:29 brb 16:13:01 what do you mean by "migrate" exactly 16:14:09 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 16:16:06 http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3981354_460s.jpg oh really? 16:17:20 -!- cheater has joined. 16:17:48 cheater: what do you mean by "migrate" exactly 16:18:14 i have a computer with an OS which i installed with a 32 bit ubuntu dvd 16:18:26 i want it to start using 64 bit versions of everything 16:35:56 I'm a Cadaeic! I'm a Cadaeic! I'm a real Cadaeic! 16:37:29 cheater: ok 16:37:34 that's a package manager problem i guess 16:37:44 i wonder if debian's new multiarch support helps 16:38:07 i don't know if it has a way to "pivot" which binary is actually stored at /bin/ls or whatever 16:39:28 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:49:13 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:50:14 -!- cheater has joined. 17:10:20 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:12:07 -!- cheater has joined. 17:17:49 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:31:12 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:39:45 -!- cheater has joined. 18:01:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:04:12 -!- nortti has joined. 18:05:56 Power plug of my computer fell off when I was updating slitaz. Now it doesn't want to boor 18:06:22 *boot 18:06:43 you may need to plug in the power again 18:09:47 olsner: i have done that 18:10:37 olsner: it boots to grub and starts loading and then it panics 18:11:30 maybe you can ease it up against a wall, that's what you do with panicking horses apparently 18:13:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 18:13:58 KERNEL panics 18:15:40 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:19:21 -!- AnotherTest has left. 18:19:43 -!- cheater has joined. 18:23:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:45 I almost want to `addquote Power plug of my computer fell off when I was updating slitaz. Now it doesn't want to boot you may need to plug in the power again 18:28:21 Why only almost? 18:28:40 It's too obvious. It's not an especially #esoteric joke. 18:38:13 we have high standards 18:45:48 -!- elliott has joined. 18:46:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:53:49 2:43 18:53:50 elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:55:58 Popular guy. 18:56:10 But ten minutes off. 18:56:34 ten minutes and many hours 18:57:10 If we assume PM, you were in fact only ten minutes off for me. 18:58:12 Sure thing, American. 18:58:50 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:59:05 hi elliott 19:06:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:06:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:28:01 hmm, my ability to differentiate the words terrific and terrible is deteriorating 19:28:58 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:28:59 That's just terrifible. 19:29:25 Hello 19:29:26 terrifblic 19:30:00 Ngevd: Hi! 19:30:04 Terry Feeble 19:30:05 Ngevd: How's your roguelike? 19:30:10 elliott, stuck! 19:30:21 Ngevd: :''( 19:30:34 I haven't worked out how to simulateneously render something and input characters! 19:30:43 Ngevd: You don't. 19:30:48 You render the screen, and then you wait for character input. 19:30:51 Well, yeah 19:30:52 Rinse, wash, repeat. 19:31:13 use threads, and you can also simultaneously crash terrifibly unreliably 19:31:15 (You probably want to use a terminal library like one of the curses bindings or vty if you're not.) 19:31:26 Yeah, I'll look into that 19:31:32 I DO MANY THINGS NOW 19:31:34 Hahahah 19:31:44 -!- cheater has joined. 19:31:52 (Note that some of the curses bindings are awful.) 19:31:53 Including what is now the second-best chess game for the 0x10c CPU 19:32:12 (vty might be the best option, even if it is kind of gross.) 19:33:29 sooooo 19:33:42 i had this girlfriend who lived in kuopio and was going to move to turku 19:33:52 and now i have this girlfriend who lived in turku and moved to kuopio 19:33:58 and they are fucking neighbors 19:34:23 they don't know each other, and have no links. 19:34:28 Are you the neighbors? 19:34:34 oklopol: you are a link 19:34:42 oklopol: introduce them 19:35:02 "hello ex, this is why i left you" 19:35:33 i just wanted to drive 800km to show you. 19:36:03 then they will knife-fight to the death (as all finns do) and you will take the winner 19:36:20 olsner: Are you sure you weren't born Finnish? 19:36:31 you don't have to drive all the way though, you can just tell them "hey, she's your neighbor now!" 19:36:32 Nothing wrong with some finnish 19:36:38 (￣ー￣) 19:37:03 Finns use ridiculous smilies like (￣ー￣). 19:37:05 elliott: yes 19:37:15 olsner: Are you sure? 19:37:24 elliott: yes 19:37:29 olsner: Are you sure? 19:37:32 elliott: yes 19:37:33 olsner: i'm going there this weekend. i'm sure this will be fun. 19:37:41 olsner: Are you sure? 19:37:43 elliott: yes 19:37:47 olsner: Are you sure? 19:37:47 elliott: that is aproximaltely how out face looks like 19:38:10 olsner: Aren't you sure? 19:38:22 elliott: I am sure 19:38:25 olsner: Arse you sure? 19:38:31 elliott, you're like that person in that book I'm reading by that person who Phantom_Hoover is disappointed by his appearance due to it not being recursive enough 19:38:32 elliott: arse you 19:39:02 Ngevd: Is that the book I think it is? 19:39:32 elliott, that would depend on which book you think it is. 19:39:36 But probably. 19:39:48 I will just leave http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris_Pressey#G.C3.B6del.2C_Escher.2C_Bach:_An_Eternal_Golden_Braid here. 19:39:52 Are you thinking of The Stainless Steel Rat's Revenge? 19:40:09 HOW DID YOU GUESS 19:40:34 Three things: 19:40:40 One, you live in my local area 19:40:46 Two, you have EYES EVERYWHERE 19:40:57 Three, I am currently reading The Stainless Steel Rat's Revenge 19:41:08 I'm going to have to move away from Ngevd. :'( 19:41:27 * elliott tries to figure out where the recursion comes in. 19:42:28 next to the review of wolfram's book, I just can't figure out what level of sarcasm/irony/parody that GEB review is written with 19:43:07 Has anyone ever ended a serious statement with "!!1!"? 19:43:32 yes, I'm sure someone has 19:44:04 err, I mean 19:44:08 Ah yes, that's what Chris thought of the Dragon Book: "The classic, borderline-incomprehensible book on compiler construction". 19:44:18 Has anyone ever ended a retorical question with? 19:44:43 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:44:44 pluss speling 19:44:46 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:44:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:44:54 coppro: Who's Noé Rubinstein? 19:44:58 Oh. 19:45:05 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:45:13 Never mind, Gmail answered my question first. 19:45:30 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:47:05 "The robot stood as stolid as a statue" 19:47:08 STOLID 19:47:15 STOLID 19:47:34 o_O 19:47:37 O_o 19:47:40 hi 19:47:54 Harry Harrison really needs a better editor 19:48:10 hi 19:48:36 hi 19:48:45 no 19:48:49 Ngevd: stolid is a word that can be used in a sentence just like that 19:49:07 terrifibly stolid 19:49:13 it even makes sense, although statues aren't necessarily stolid 19:49:21 good statues probably aren't 19:49:22 It's a silly word 19:49:34 stilly 19:49:50 terrifibly stillily stolid 19:50:33 Ngevd: I'm bored. You should play Crawl so I can watch and laugh. 19:51:06 elliott, I'm currently using Windows for stilly and friviltous treasons 19:51:12 Ngevd: Do you have PuTTY? 19:51:29 Can you stream with PuTTY? 19:51:34 I thought it could only recieve 19:51:37 Yes, you play on the server. 19:51:44 Aaaah 19:51:47 Which then streams it for you (and also lets people send messages). 19:51:55 (Mostly "Squarelos: hi".) 19:52:06 Okay, running PuTTY 19:52:13 What settings? 19:52:13 crawl.develz.org, port 345 19:52:14 Telnet 19:52:26 "stream"? 19:52:33 olsner: Termcast style. 19:52:36 Gotcha 19:53:09 Playing 19:53:32 Don't you dare be an elf. 19:54:13 Don't be a vamp. 19:54:30 It's quite slow? 19:54:35 What is? 19:54:38 The lag 19:54:43 basically you telnet to it and it appears in your terminal? sort of like how telnet works? 19:54:45 It's sometimes a bit laggy. But then it isn't. 19:54:50 olsner: wat 19:55:09 elliott: I am confuse 19:55:21 olsner: It lets other people watch. 19:55:34 Ngevd: Go for Minotaur or Troll or something. 19:55:35 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:55:43 If you want something overpowered enough to let you survive on pure luck. :p 19:55:49 TANEEEEEEB 19:56:00 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:56:07 Ngevd: Go for Minotaur or Troll or something. 19:56:10 If you want something overpowered enough to let you survive on pure luck. :p 19:56:38 Fighter or Berserker would complete the overpowered-melee-fighter combo. 19:56:46 Axe. 19:57:02 Ngevd: You know about vikeys, right? 19:57:06 No? 19:57:15 Don't use the arrow keys, you'll die, because you can't do diagonals. 19:57:22 If you have a number pad you can use that. 19:57:26 Otherwise it's hjkl/yubn to move. 19:57:36 Also, the two more useful keys are o and tab. 19:57:39 *most useful 19:58:13 Ngevd: You should chop that corpse. 19:58:43 Oh, wait. 19:58:45 It's a Kobold corpse. 19:58:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:00:12 (You might want to adjust the skills you're training by pressing m.) 20:00:24 (Turning off everything but axes would be reasonable.) 20:00:51 Oh, press / to go manual. 20:00:53 Or it won't really work. 20:01:02 Crawl's skills settings are kind of complicated. 20:01:42 Ngevd: You're still using the arrow keys, aren't you. :( 20:02:50 No 20:02:57 I just forget about diagonals 20:03:11 Ngevd: Did you leave that scroll there on the previous level? 20:03:15 (Ctrl+F scroll to check.) 20:03:28 Try a. to go back there and pick it up. 20:03:40 hm it appears that DMM has filled up the LMOO queue by drawing other other people 20:03:40 It'll walk for you. 20:03:44 's suggestions 20:03:54 (The advantage of using o rather than walking around manually, apart from being less tedious, is that it makes sure you don't miss picking anything up>0 20:03:56 *up.) 20:04:50 You should chop corpses after killing them with "c", unless they show up as green text. (So you can eat them when you get hungry.) 20:05:39 Ngevd: Stop. 20:05:41 Press Ctrl+P. 20:05:52 Eating is... a bad idea when you're in combat. 20:06:29 21:05 Taneb the Shield-Bearer (L3 MiFi), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) in D:3, with 91 points after 1086 turns and 0:08:54. 20:06:38 go team sigmund 20:13:07 Well, neither Vty nor hscurses want to install 20:18:52 What errors? 20:18:56 vty should be easier to install. 20:19:26 Ngevd: what are you trying to do? 20:20:02 Write a roguelike 20:21:10 elliott, http://hpaste.org/68200 20:21:19 Ah. 20:21:23 That's Windows for you. 20:21:42 I think there might be a curses binding on Hackage that works with PDCurses. Maybe. 20:22:09 Oh, it's http://hackage.haskell.org/package/nanocurses. But that package has been broken for years. 20:25:49 If you are writiing a roguelike, a few things to consider are: * Separate front-end and back-end * PC/NPC unification * If using Haskell, the "extensible-data" package 20:29:05 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2010/05/18/lets-use-a-methaphor-charlie-and-his-car/ 20:30:48 Challenge: Write introductory paragraph that can start no blog post of value. Submission: "Few weeks ago I posted a rant about stupid people not knowing how to internet. Most of the readers could relate, but some folks criticized me for being elitist. I’m pretty sure these people were just trolling but I guess they were successful enough to make me want to revisit this post." 20:32:02 Ngevd: Anyway, you could just... 20:32:05 Ngevd: I dunno, use SDL or something. 20:32:14 Or write it in Python, that has libtcod bindings. :p 20:48:49 "Turn: 167115944" 20:48:53 that's a many turn 20:54:29 I was using ansi-terminal, but input is dodhy? 20:55:55 ansi-terminal can't do the kind of things you'd want. 20:56:08 I suppose you could just redraw the entire screen each time... :p 20:57:15 elliott: thanks, you just made me not read nortti's link 20:57:35 olsner: But now you've missed out. :( 20:57:54 No he didn't 20:57:58 That blog is awful 20:58:22 You can miss out on awful things, too! 20:58:25 Ngevd: why do you think so 20:58:48 Because Charlie is an awful name! 20:59:06 Ngevd: Did you know that every teenager consumes porn? 20:59:07 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2012/05/02/is-your-teen-browsing-the-pr0n/ 20:59:07 now I just need to learn how to internet, to make sure that blog poster doesn't make fun of me 20:59:10 CHECKMATE ASEXUALS 20:59:16 -!- blacksun1 has joined. 20:59:22 Ngevd's cover is blast wide open. 20:59:23 elliott, FSVO porn 20:59:25 `welcome blacksun1 20:59:29 blacksun1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:00:07 I occasionally have disturbing deviantArt binges 21:00:19 -!- blacksun1 has quit (Client Quit). 21:00:25 TELL US NO MORE 21:07:01 Well, goodnight 21:07:03 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 21:14:18 Grawr 21:26:26 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 21:32:44 -!- itidus20 has joined. 21:35:53 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:06:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:25 I occasionally have disturbing deviantArt binges TELL US NO MORE 22:38:46 Welp, time to look up "pony" on Deviant Art and see how many pages I have to go through 'til I get to pony porn. 22:38:48 My guess: 0 22:39:50 Gregor: That's some cover you have there. 22:39:59 How long have you been waiting for a tangentially-related IRC discussion to reply to with that? 22:40:31 ( ﾟ∀ﾟ) 22:40:47 I was going to say that right now regardless, it was merely happy happenstance that it vaguely fit a previous conversation. 22:41:34 Shameless as ever, I see. 22:48:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:49:18 ( ﾟ∀ﾟ) // I honestly can't make heads or tails of this smiley. 22:49:25 Is it smiling? Freaked out? A bird? 22:49:42 Really? 22:49:57 What about ( 　ﾟ,_ゝﾟ) 22:50:24 It looks like the O RLY owl to me. 22:50:26 I mean, the previous one. 22:50:27 That's pretty understandable. 22:50:42 What about (ノ｀Д´)ノ彡┻━┻ 22:50:45 -!- variable has changed nick to const. 22:52:16 http://shoppies-img.jp/res_items3/746/7465945/PT_110601202610190.jpg 22:52:20 Not an owl 22:52:25 Definitely an owl. 22:52:35 I guess an exaggerated version of ( °▽°) 22:52:36 My system's rendering of it is better. 22:52:37 If you must 22:52:43 The dors are wider than just the dot, and to the left of the character. 22:52:51 *dots 22:52:57 * elliott screenshots. 22:53:06 http://ompldr.org/vZG51cA 22:53:21 Yeah that's a pretty odd rendering 22:53:30 They're not dots, they're degree signs. 22:53:41 Degree signs are just dots with ego. 22:53:43 They're supposed to be circles. 22:53:50 They are circles. 22:53:53 Just small circles. 22:53:56 ...with no fill 22:53:58 Just a stroke 22:54:09 They turn into hollow circles when I increase the font size. 22:54:17 There you go 22:54:19 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:21 I already knew that. 22:54:23 Just leave it on the higher setting from now on 22:54:27 So you can see my ° 22:54:30 It's hard to display the hollowness without distorting the sizes at a font size like that. 22:54:38 Lumpio-: I already interpreted it as a circle. 22:54:49 Lumpio-: Also, that is a different character. 22:54:54 Maybe you should change fonts 22:54:57 That one renders as larger and more hollow here. 22:55:34 hm? 22:55:42 ﾟ° 22:55:44 http://ompldr.org/vZG51cQ Compare your original smiley to your "So you can see my" line. 22:55:44 oo, you're right 22:55:59 It's not a degree sign, it's a half-width handakuten mark 22:56:19 IN YR FACE 22:56:48 (Which should also preferably be a circle, mind you) 22:57:05 It is a circle, just a small one. 22:57:05 ugh, mozc's standard dictionary uses a full-width handakuten mark for those 22:57:22 Yeah but the proportions are off. 22:57:23 Japanese text isn't really well-suited to this font size on displays with standard pixels per inch. 22:57:43 (Even though this display has an above-average PPI.) 22:57:45 My font size is the same or smaller tbh 22:57:53 And it's quite legible. 22:58:00 It would probably be better at this size with more hinting. 22:58:12 Yeah, full hinting is a must. 22:58:18 But I don't use Japanese on IRC, so :p 22:58:22 Otherwise it's just black blobs. 22:58:41 OS X never hints afaik. 22:58:57 mm 22:59:01 Enjoy your blobs then I guess 22:59:09 Full hinting + stroke elimination is a must for small text 22:59:47 On my resolution even 書 has enough horizontal lines to require stroke elimination 22:59:51 er, font size 23:00:00 If there's any justice, increasing PPI will obsolete that (and antialiasing) soon enough. 23:00:02 (There isn't any justice, though.) 23:00:14 (Especially since most OSes are woefully badly-equipped to handle larger PPIs.) 23:00:28 (Let me guess, "except OSX") 23:00:36 No, OS X is terrible at it. 23:00:39 * elliott doesn't usually use OS X. 23:00:44 ¬u¬ 23:00:51 OS X just assumes everything is 100 PPI and uses bitmap images for most things. 23:01:00 Anyways PPI hasn't increased on your usual laptop displays for years 23:01:12 Consumers seem to be content with "full HD" 23:01:29 Hard to find displays with better resolution. 23:01:48 I blame Windows. 23:02:05 This display is ~128 PPI, which is nice. (1440x900 at 13") 23:02:07 Actually I doubt most desktop displays go higher than that either. 23:02:20 96 DPI is still standard. Alas. 23:02:32 My other laptop is the same size but 1366x768, which is smaller than I would like. 23:02:47 LVDS1 connected 1440x900+1920+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 367mm x 229mm 23:03:02 I wonder if xrandr can calculate DPI for me, too lazy to 23:03:33 "578 characters were initially added, though some characters unsuitable for names such as 怨 (grudge, resent), 痔 (haemorrhoids) and 屍 (corpse) were removed as a result of public feedback." 23:03:50 You mean I can't call my kid Grudge Haemorrhoidscorpse? 23:04:07 So much for free speech. :( 23:04:53 I don't think that would go through in most countries... 23:04:54 elliott: You still can. 23:05:13 It just can't be 痔屍　怨. 23:05:20 You'll have to spell it out. 23:05:37 ＧＲＵＤＧＥ  ＨＡＥＭＯＲＲＨＯＩＤＳＣＯＲＰＳＥ 23:06:20 グラッジ　ヘモロイヅコープす morelike 23:07:08 倉地　兵諸井戸幸符巣 23:07:14 Or KURAJI HEMOROIDOKOUPUSU 23:07:16 there 23:07:31 恨みの痔の死体 23:07:36 Lumpio-: Nonono. Kuraji HEMOROIDOKOUPUSU 23:07:41 Yeah, google translate doesn't do it justice 23:07:41 "Piles of corpses of resentment" 23:07:47 Well, that's my new metal album name. 23:07:53 pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization. 23:08:14 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:19 悪の宇宙へようこそハローお名前とご住所を記入してください。 23:08:30 pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization. 23:08:34 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:36 pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization. 23:08:37 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:37 悪の宇宙へようこそハローお名前とご住所を記入してください。 23:08:39 No. 23:08:40 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:43 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:43 No. 23:08:46 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:49 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:51 I reject your reality and substitute my own. 23:08:52 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:55 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:08:58 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:09:01 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:09:04 ... 23:09:04 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:09:07 Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name. 23:09:11 elliott: "Welcome to the space of evil, hello. Please write down your name and address"? 23:09:18 Lumpio-: Close enough. 23:09:19 音声学アルカトラズは、オステオパシーの解釈の赦免をバカ-うねる。 23:09:30 o_Ô 23:09:45 I have no idea what 赦免 is 23:09:51 "Phonetics Alcatraz osteopathic moron-undulate exegesis pardoning." 23:09:54 Ah. 23:10:00 Through the filter of GOOGLE. 23:11:05 Phonetics Alcatraz stupid-twist the pardon of the analysis of osteopathy 23:11:10 Is what I'd have guessed. 23:11:20 pikhq_:That is what I eould have say. You have to use kana, only that specific kanji disallow 23:11:37 Piles of Corpses of Resentment, by The Pardon of the Analysis of Osteopathy 23:12:58 ( ´ー`) 23:13:18 You have to admit, it's catchy. 23:14:55 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:17:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:18:41 -!- augur has joined. 23:18:44 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:26:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 23:27:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 2012-05-08: 00:12:13 H E L O 00:23:33 501 HELO requires domain address 00:27:16 -!- monqy has joined. 00:29:54 elliott: 17:29:46 Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed 00:30:05 congratulations!!! 00:30:09 previously that's only happened to PH 00:30:21 you got messages in ##crawl too (not from me) 00:30:27 yeah i saw 00:31:19 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:13 -!- elliott has joined. 00:33:21 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 00:33:21 -!- elliott has joined. 00:33:25 wow lag 00:37:07 monqy: Is _Concrete Mathematics_ a good book? 00:37:17 i don't know 00:37:18 is it 00:44:28 whoah, arcane sentiment started looking different 00:44:34 its am shock to america 00:45:32 "i can confirm that i am shock" - america 01:01:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:24:10 02:23 Ok, so I was playing a Sonic the Hedgehog game made for the Sega Saturn. Anyways, the big bad in this one wasn't Eggman/Robotnik, it was the "Cow King". This "cow king" wore runed gauntlets, wore a fully functional tank for a suit of armour, and planned to conquer the world to open up the biggest hamburger factory ever. To beat him, I had to shoot Sonic out of a cannon built onto the final boss of Sonic 2 (obviously piloted 01:24:11 by Robotni 01:24:15 monqy: ##crawl quality. ##crawlity. 01:24:22 data LeftCo m f x = forall z. LeftCo (f (m z) -> x) (f z); If m is monad, does this make a comonad? If m is monad, does this make a comonad transformer? 01:28:21 elliott: about half the channel /ignores Lightli. the other half doesn't. 01:28:36 02:25 that the cow king was wearing. And this game was so popular they MADE a sequel wherein every sonic villain teamed up with Sonic and the Cow King to take on the Pig King, who had stolen things like the Statue of Liberty, the Longius Spear, and Albert Einstein without even using time travel. 01:28:37 (i don't, of course) 01:28:49 they sure are interesting!! 01:28:53 monqy: what perctnage of #esoteric /ignores me。 01:28:54 wow they use webchat. make that *really* interesting 01:29:32 No channels are listed under WHOIS Lightli 01:29:40 thanks zzo38 01:29:57 zzo38: /whois on Freenode normally only lists channels that you share with the /whoisee 01:30:21 /whoisee in this channel is none of your business 01:30:31 Should that be "/whomisee"? 01:30:34 I don’t know about Freenode, but /whois generally hides channels that have the +s mode unless you’re there, too. 01:31:12 ion: Yes I think so, channel mode +s and possibly also user mode +i might do 01:31:14 monqy: i think monqys-crawl should have 2x2 levels 01:31:20 just remove the walls 01:31:22 aaaaahhhh 01:31:23 (what happens if you remove the walls) 01:31:30 (can you walk into nothingness) 01:31:40 ion: freenode sets +i for everyone by default. 01:31:47 So you can almost never use /whois to spy on people. 01:32:47 Ah, forgot about +i. 01:33:03 I didn’t know it affects /whois, too. 01:33:39 The help file for this server only says "+i - Designates this client 'invisible'." under "umode" 01:35:04 monqy: what happens :'( 01:35:22 uhh 01:35:35 you can't move into the lvel boudnarys 01:35:41 What does the +p user mode mean? I get :verne.freenode.net NOTICE zzo38 :*** You need oper and the override flag for +p but what is override flag, and what does +p mode mean? Help file doesn't say what that mean 01:35:43 which will be shown as rock 01:35:43 :'( 01:36:02 except when they're not, like in some places they're "open sea" or endless lava 01:36:08 creiyse 01:36:13 where by endless i mean you can't move into it 01:36:16 it just says it's endless 01:36:21 (i m creyaeying) 01:36:25 monqycrawl levels should have a topology that wraps over both axes. 01:36:43 I don't want to muck with that part of crawl 01:36:46 Also, I get a 501 error for +k and -k and for +l but for -l I get no message. 01:36:53 pathfinding and rendering and 01:36:53 and 01:36:54 monqy: creibriados :'( 01:36:54 everything 01:37:25 02:37 ...I think I just accidently made a badIRC quote. BRB going to sleep 01:37:27 Play the game on a hex grid, or on a 3D grid, or a mobius strip grid, etc 01:37:30 toroidal crawl "probably not worth the effort" 01:37:32 zzo38: hexcrawl exists 01:37:35 its 01:37:37 hexcrawl 01:37:48 0xcrawl 01:38:02 elliott: But does mobius strip crawl exists? 01:38:08 no 01:38:11 well 01:38:12 it might!!! 01:38:13 but i dont know of it 01:43:40 monqy: btw how does sequell know about tiles games. are they all webtiles 01:43:47 or can you play tiles on cao/cdo somehow 01:44:13 all webtiles, which is cdo 01:45:32 Is there a Crawl variant on a 3D grid (without gravity)? If so, are trigonal moves allowed? Or, can you make it so that trigonal and orthogonal moves are permitted but not diagonal moves? 01:45:59 monqy: it's not *real* *true* cdo 01:48:01 Whats the solution for exploding. 01:48:38 don't eat so much! 01:48:55 monqy: Help. 01:50:40 monqy: isn't this the second time geomancer asked that help ;_; 01:50:43 ##crawl is so confusing 01:50:58 and fast 01:51:04 i haven't been paying attention 01:51:09 too much effort to keep up 100% all the time 01:51:23 02:48 So why did the get rid of MDs? 01:51:53 there's a dev blog post about it, giomancer!!! you're ages late to the party 01:54:35 monqy: shields are a bad idea as unarmed ghmo right i keep 01:54:36 forgetting 01:55:05 "monqy wisdom ~ so valuable, yet so easy to forget" 01:55:16 some people like shields as unarmed, i forget if i do or not 01:55:19 i usually don't bother 01:55:21 its a buckler if that matters 01:55:38 monqy: can i hgave monqy wis dom, 01:55:51 on my mftm i had a buckler of resistance and could cast blade hands to meld it (but then i lost my rF rC) 01:56:08 rip, ijyb 01:57:46 rijyb 01:58:13 02:57 crate, you'd like monqys-crawl 01:58:17 monqy: "approvale" 01:59:12 02:58 Responding to that. So shove it, minqmay 01:59:14 "disapprovale" 02:00:37 02:58 scum traps for berserk 02:00:41 "monqys anti-scumming plans destroyed" 02:00:48 free ##crawl commentary sponsored by elliott airlines 02:01:50 monqys-crawl wont have traps 02:02:08 monqy: mikee_ lied!!! 02:02:12 what!! 02:02:16 he said you were making the ouch message berserk you "monqys-crawl disinfo cmpaign" 02:02:23 02:57 he's making it so the ouch message berserks you 02:02:28 yes i told mikee i'd do that 02:02:36 mikee_ disinfo campaign 02:02:39 ps, ogres are jerks 02:02:53 oh are you playing 02:02:55 what are you even meant to do with ogres when you have 36 hp to your name "the answer is throw things at it but that's too boring" 02:03:01 yes but ill probably die in the next turn 02:03:07 great 02:03:37 i was wrong 02:03:39 it took several turns 02:03:51 Lets Try That Again(tm) 02:06:11 HOW MUCH WATER CAN ONE FOUNTAIN HAVE 02:06:44 finally 02:07:50 monqy: have you lied to me about monqys-crawl too 02:07:50 Is this what you meant by the union of two headings in my program? http://sprunge.us/LRVX 02:07:56 (i hope so) 02:08:06 elliott: lied?? 02:08:38 zzo38: looks like it, but you can't use it to determine which is more specific unless headingUnion xs ys is always xs or ys 02:08:42 monqy: yes 02:08:47 does only mikee get the lies :( 02:09:03 what lies!! 02:09:14 03:02 yes i told mikee i'd do that 02:09:22 that doesn't mean i'm not doing it!! 02:09:28 but you're not having traps!!! 02:09:36 i'm not having traps! 02:09:43 is it a vacuous truth :( 02:09:44 i never told anyone i'd have traps 02:09:46 what 02:09:50 the 02:09:50 the ouch message isn't from traps 02:09:53 it was 02:09:54 in context 02:09:56 oh 02:09:57 i didnt 02:09:58 see that 02:10:14 it was 02:10:19 blah blah blah i stepped on trap but didn't get ouch message 02:10:22 elliott: Well, I would only need to determine which is more specific if there is more than one heading which matches something, I think. 02:10:27 youd love monqys-crawl monqy is making the ouch make you go berserk 02:10:33 ha ha scumming traps for berserk 02:11:34 oh 02:12:48 did you know you can use g to pick things up as well as , :O 02:12:49 Make up many kind of traps, such as: * Spikey trap * Arrow trap * Pit trap * Stone block trap * Exploding trap * Poison trap * Teleport trap * Evil teleport trap * Healing trap * Magical discharge trap * Surveillance trap * Shrinker trap * Enlarger trap * Random spell trap * Death trap 02:14:08 Where some of the traps will not affect flying creatures. 02:14:11 monqy: help 02:15:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:15:22 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:15:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:15:25 elliott: yes 02:15:32 help 02:15:39 oh 02:15:42 you're in trouble 02:15:47 i thought you waere asking for help about g 02:15:54 uhhh 02:15:59 no that was a 02:16:02 maybe you shouldn't have done that 02:16:02 "jokinge comment" 02:16:16 Do you like to make up any of these kind of traps? 02:16:19 monqy: help 02:17:17 help 02:17:24 "if only i was playing monqys-crawl" 02:17:26 "id be berserk right now" 02:17:30 "too bad its broken" 02:17:45 you wouldnt be berserk 02:17:48 youy're a ghoul 02:17:59 surely monqys-crawl will make it work for every race 02:18:14 no 02:18:24 kool 02:18:26 monqy: are you sure 02:18:39 maybe i should play something other than ghmo 02:18:43 something with 02:18:45 more hp 02:19:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:19:31 ghouls have 02:19:33 pretty good hp 02:19:33 man 02:19:57 maybe you should play something that starts with ranged or an escape ability 02:20:02 O, and also, the healing trap should harm any undead which touch it 02:20:19 like a warper or an ak or something with summ or conj or idk 02:20:19 monqy: i was going to go for 02:20:20 "even more hp" 02:20:21 but 02:20:24 'decided on simplicity' 02:20:29 or just play a troll 02:20:44 lots of hp and if you get low on it you can pillar dance :) 02:20:46 if i escaped to the abyss for the sake of a single ogre i'd hate myself forever 02:20:54 monqy: that's the smuggest :) i've ever seen 02:20:54 you wouldnt' escape to the abyss 02:20:57 you';d bend space 02:21:21 or banish it before it starts murderkilling you 02:21:33 but ghak is, like, greyed out!!! 02:21:37 meanwhile, http://esolangs.org/wiki/♦ 02:21:39 play dsak then man 02:21:53 monqy: food mechanic 02:21:54 s 02:21:56 *-s 02:21:58 trak 02:22:08 muak 02:22:11 muak 02:22:12 what's tr again 02:22:14 troll 02:22:17 muak sounds bad 02:22:22 greyed out doesn't actually matter 02:22:33 ddak! dd has good invo skill 02:22:46 03:22 !won * muak 02:22:46 03:22 * (muak) has won 6 times in 517 games (1.16%): 6xMuAK 02:22:46 03:22 !won * trak 02:22:48 03:22 * (trak) has won twice in 748 games (0.27%): 2xTrAK 02:22:49 perfect for bending space, banishing else 02:22:50 popular combos 02:22:51 er 02:22:52 self 02:22:59 monqy: i already know ddak is terrible!!! 02:23:01 you can't: foole me 02:23:06 elliott: popularity and winrate don't matter anything!! 02:23:11 or mean anything 02:23:12 or we/ 02:23:13 that was jokinge 02:23:15 the popular combos part 02:24:21 monqy: maybe i'll just play a random combo 02:24:24 "good ideas" 02:25:41 monqy: halfling hunter 02:25:57 uhhh help 02:25:57 hav fun 02:26:00 sling 02:26:11 what do i train 02:26:14 i dunno 02:26:17 i don't like hunters 02:26:26 way2quit 02:26:31 demigod wizard 02:26:39 does wz have meph 02:26:49 it used to at least 02:26:54 how do i tell 02:26:55 it's in the book not memorized 02:26:58 check M or i 02:27:01 03:26 * (dewz) has won 70 times in 31958 games (0.22%): 70xDEWz 02:27:04 oh that's so mainstream 02:27:04 ahhhhhh, meph 02:27:12 that's dgwz, not dewz, elliott 02:27:37 03:27 * (dgwz) has won 15 times in 3076 games (0.49%): 10xDGWz 5xDgWz 02:27:39 that's slightly better 02:27:48 merfolk transfmuter 02:27:49 what could do wron 02:27:50 g 02:28:04 fuck this 02:29:07 im done with crawl im a monqys-crawl person now 02:29:11 forever 02:29:12 oh no 02:29:15 i wanted to bold forever 02:29:17 but i couldn't 02:29:22 and i blame monqy 02:29:24 are you going to fix monqys-crawl now 02:29:28 don't blame me!! 02:29:41 i thought you were fixing it 02:29:46 no i'm doing homework 02:30:01 what an inefficient allocation of resources 02:30:12 anyway i don't know where they bug is!!!! you're the one who said you found it 02:30:18 no 02:30:18 i didnt 02:30:24 i said i was looking for it 02:30:27 then i stopped 02:30:29 looking for it 02:30:32 and started homewrok 02:30:33 i thoguh ty ou said it got in when you 16x16 tried 02:30:39 no 02:31:00 i said before i tried 24x24 i tried 16x16 and was looking to see if anything from then got left behind and commited 02:31:01 ls: /Developer/SDKs: No such file or directory 02:31:01 Makefile:412: *** You do not seem to have any Mac OS X SDKs installed! This build is doomed to fail. Stop. 02:31:01 oh no not again 02:33:16 so i tried removing ones that are too big "stope-gape" but then ./dat/des/branches/abyss.des:54: Map 'abyss_furniture_001' is too big for the Abyss: 3x3 - max 0x0 02:33:32 ./dat/des/branches/blade.des:60: Map 'hall_of_blades' is too big: 70x30 - max 24x24 02:33:34 this is confuse 02:34:30 ok that maks mor sens 02:34:39 yeah but it still says 02:34:41 16x16 for some of them 02:34:44 o 02:34:50 oh right what iw as going to do next is 02:34:53 find where it prints the error 02:34:55 im guessing you have one scaling factor or sth wronge still 02:34:57 i can 02:35:01 get the 16x16 error for you again 02:35:02 and either work backwards or just patch it up for now 02:35:06 ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16) 02:35:10 (note different formate!!!) 02:35:28 perhasp different things that make that happen 02:35:33 "i'll have to "check it out"" 02:35:38 "eventually latr" 02:36:19 its ok monqy will be forced to fix it in the next 5 minutes due to burning curisorjity 02:36:24 *crap 02:37:19 monqy: (brun) 02:37:26 --curisorjity 02:38:13 Curisorjity is a good god name 02:39:29 Is it the way? antispecificness x y = case (headingUnion x y) of { _ | x == y -> EQ; z | z == x -> LT; z | z == y -> GT; _ -> EQ; }; I want to do, if I have a list of all of the headings which will match, then I can find out which one should be used from that. (Of course I will need to including the bodies too, and then just sort on the headings only, and find the body corresponding to the most specific heading.) 02:47:05 monqy: you should rename Cheibriados to Curisorjity in monqys-crawl and also make felids die when they worship it 02:47:08 so you could say taht 02:47:12 curisorjity killed the cat 02:48:56 monqy: no? 02:49:32 no. :( 02:54:24 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:02 -!- elliott has joined. 02:55:07 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:50 -!- elliott has joined. 02:57:56 hi 02:58:35 Patashu: nice situation you were in there 02:58:42 that was "are" when i was typing it 02:58:48 yes 02:58:49 it was great 02:59:10 monqy: you missed: ******* 7 orbs of fire 03:01:54 news bulletin: Patashu saved by obsolescence 03:04:00 rip Patashu 03:04:18 04:04 KILL IT ASAP 03:04:20 ##crawl wisdom. 03:04:22 ##crisdom. 03:04:33 ok i'm not doing that any more before i turn this into a crappy meme 03:06:24 rip Patashu 03:06:40 rip, butterflies 03:06:53 im a bit confused Patashu 03:06:56 why are you summoning butterflies 03:07:24 meat shields 03:07:28 it's the best spell in crawl 03:07:34 (all of the level 1-2 spells are really good) 03:07:39 that's horrific 03:11:02 ripatashu 03:17:19 monqy: "Homework" is just code for "playing shameful overpowered Crawl combos locally", right? 03:17:24 no 03:17:25 im back 03:17:30 i was HYEIGEN 03:17:41 Hyeigen is just code for etc., right? 03:17:50 monqy: you missed: 03:59 monqy: you missed: ******* 7 orbs of fir 03:17:51 *fire 03:18:13 maybe patashu is playing the german version of crawl 03:18:35 7 orbs of fur 03:18:45 if i add orbs of fur to monqys-crawl will you accept them 03:19:32 perhaps 03:19:53 what if i add monqys :( 03:20:27 perhaps 03:20:34 :( 03:20:46 monqy: wait are you a monqy 03:20:53 monqy: i thooguht you were just monqy 03:21:09 im a monqy, yes 03:21:15 oh 03:21:17 surprised?? 03:21:17 are you also monqy 03:21:20 yes 03:21:21 surprised?? 03:21:27 monqy the monqy?? 03:21:30 yes 03:21:30 surprised?? 03:21:35 surprised!!!!!! 03:21:37 yes 03:21:40 maximal surprise 03:21:43 yes 03:22:03 monqy: whats the plualra of monqy 03:22:11 undecided 03:22:18 perhaps it's monqys 03:22:48 the plural of monqy might be monqy 03:22:57 yes 03:23:10 is monqy a verb 03:23:19 monqy is whatever you want monqy to be 03:23:26 i want monqy to be a verb 03:23:50 monqy: ok what monqys would do is 03:24:03 normally they're just really weak melee monsters 03:24:04 except 03:24:13 if you drop permafood close to them 03:24:18 they'll walk up to it and eat it and become pet 03:24:21 there's no food in monqys-crawl 03:24:27 "sorry to disappoint" 03:24:32 ok how about 03:24:41 if you drop uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 03:24:42 help 03:25:06 monqy: ok alternate plan 03:25:24 monqys appear only on zot:5 and all they do is blink 03:25:28 they have no melee attacks but like 03:25:31 a gazillion hp 03:25:33 and also they come in packs 03:25:43 :( 03:25:47 this simulates the experience of talking to monqy on irc 03:25:50 :( 03:25:51 (im jokes its not really like that) 03:25:54 :) 03:26:01 (will you accept a patch that adds that) 03:26:04 no 03:26:11 but i don't think you understand 03:26:14 they blink every. single. turn. 03:26:42 is monqy a demon 03:26:48 maybe if they were like butterflies or something and also actually invulnerable 03:27:05 so they wouldn't block autoexplore or resting but you couldn't torment them to near-death and finish them off easily 03:27:34 ok that sounds good 03:27:36 so they're just 03:27:38 making them nonliving or demonic or undead could also work but on principle i'd prefer actual invulnerability 03:27:41 monqy: did you hear "my pun" 03:27:42 there to get in the way 03:27:51 monqy: actually you might be able to "'sploit" it if they're invulnerable 03:27:53 like 03:27:56 hide behind a wall of them 03:27:56 20:08 < shachaf> dmwit: Some of my bathrooms have baths. The rest are restrooms. 03:27:58 "they "create "tactical "situations"""" 03:28:00 i guess you could just uh 03:28:04 hide behind a literal wall also though 03:28:13 sploit is the whole reason i'm allowing them!! 03:28:14 Just make "Curisorjity" a new one instead of rename the other one, and then make it so that they will kill the cat and not anything else. 03:28:15 ok maybe i'll "do that" 03:28:24 monqy: did you see my chei rename proposal 03:28:29 also reverse-sploit of them blocking you from getting to a smiter or fireballer or something 03:28:31 yes 03:28:36 i don't want to ban felids from chei :( 03:28:36 are you considering it 03:28:40 unless i like 03:28:42 ban felids outright 03:28:48 which i just might 03:28:48 just make all felids die on turn one 03:28:57 monqy: Then consider my suggestion instead if you do not like that one 03:28:58 and make a class you don't like start with chei 03:29:09 so curisorjity can kill the cat without actually having to have playable felids 03:30:55 (Curisorjity kill the cat, including but not limited to felids, I mean; and that includes both PCs and NPCs) 03:30:59 monqy: also can monqys be a playable race; you can't move normally, all you can do is (uncontrolled to start with) blink 03:31:07 and attack and stuff obviously 03:31:54 Make chess knights into a playable race then, that you can make knight moves (disallowing king moves) but other thing is normally 03:32:11 elliott: like blinkrobin? 03:32:20 monqy: that sounds like my kind of robin 03:32:22 monqy race would be awful 03:32:34 04:32 ??blinkrobin 03:32:34 04:32 blinkrobin[1/2]: blinkrobin: You cannot move. 03:32:34 04:32 ??blinkrobin[2] 03:32:36 04:32 blinkrobin[2/2]: Press and hold 'o'. When lvl 2, learn blink and assign it to b. Press and hold 'o'. More macros are coming. 03:32:38 yes, like blinkrobin. 03:32:47 except that 03:32:53 autoexplore would be made to use blink too 03:32:59 also 03:33:06 if you get ctele then 03:33:14 the direction keys make you blink in "roughly that direction" 03:34:18 monqy: if you don't like that terrible idea, here's another 03:34:59 monqy: race without HP but instead a maximum turn count. once it gets down to 0 you die. attacks decrease your turn count but you regain it on kills 03:35:04 and it starts stupidly low 03:35:18 What about, instead of not be able to move at all, you are not permitted to make king moves but are allowed to make knight moves instead 03:35:47 monqy: c'mon appreciate this 03:36:01 apreciateing 03:36:29 monqy: would you 'acept the patche' 03:36:32 as the kids call it 03:37:05 Patashu: how have you not won yet 03:37:07 maybe 03:37:17 why are you even eating you were on D:9 and you have the orb 03:37:25 monqy: that sounds like no!!! 03:37:35 depends on what's in the patche 03:37:36 Or, you do not regain turn count on kills but do upon eating (and that includes eating corpses; but you might have to consider in case some corpses are danger) 03:37:40 monqy: it would add the above 03:37:45 zzo38: no food in monqys-crawl!!! 03:37:45 i wouldn't accept monqy race as proposed 03:37:47 monqy: "have you won crawl" 03:37:57 monqy: not the monqy race the 03:37:57 17 times, didn't you hear 03:37:59 turncount race 03:38:01 oh 03:38:03 I'd accept that 03:38:05 actually 03:38:06 elliott: O, well, then. 03:38:09 you could just replace felids with that 03:38:09 i mean 03:38:13 cats are fast right 03:38:13 feel free to implement it 03:38:15 so 03:38:18 perfect speedrun race 03:38:35 challenge combo: elliotts-felid of chei 03:38:54 Perhaps, do not make this one of the races but instead make it a game variant option 03:39:01 wow monqy 03:39:02 wonqy 03:39:04 crawl does everything via races 03:39:12 except for the things it does via backgrounds or gods 03:39:24 Anyone of you playinge nowe or soone? 03:39:42 Well, it shouldn't. That way is racist. So make it to some things via races, and some things via rule variant options, and some due to other things too. 03:39:45 ion: patashue 03:39:59 ion: but that's over in about really soon 03:40:01 patashoe 03:40:02 Where (and what username if not that)? 03:40:03 ion: so don't bother 03:40:04 Patashu: DON'T YOU THINK YOU'D BETTER EAT 03:40:06 NEAR STARVING AND ALL 03:40:26 i couldn't win while near starving actually 03:40:28 wouldn't feel right 03:40:30 well 03:40:32 i couldn't win full stop but 03:40:47 ill probably play after i see Patashu win or lose i guess 03:40:49 Patashu: don't you wish you were a mummy about now 03:40:50 unless monqy fixes monqys-crawl 03:40:54 i won't 03:40:57 don't worry 03:41:00 :( 03:41:08 crey's 03:41:18 Ah, found it. 03:41:44 oh did Patashu eat 03:41:45 good Patashu 03:41:55 Got to see the last ten seconds. :-) 03:42:56 monqy: should i play corl 03:43:03 Patashu: what combo should i play 03:43:14 monqy: what ocmboiem should i paelrjy 03:43:21 whl';ewf 03:43:24 have you done healer yet 03:43:53 I think rule variant options should be implemented. Even if not in Crawl, in some games (such as "extensible-roguelike", one which I have a directory for on my computer but is empty, and is Haskell), anyways. 03:43:55 monqy: should i do healer 03:44:09 if you want 03:44:10 Hea Gno Mal Neu 03:44:15 monqy: is healer good 03:44:20 for purposes of branching out, i'd advise you at least try it 03:44:22 It’s annoyinge. 03:44:22 OR!!!!!!! 03:44:25 Hea Gno Fem Neu 03:44:27 monqy: that sounds like 03:44:28 But try it. :-) 03:44:31 "it's terrible but im being diplomacy" 03:44:38 i haven't played new healier 03:44:42 so 03:44:54 DEFE/DEIE 03:44:56 i can't advise it for any other reason 03:44:59 no ion 03:45:03 Oh, there’s a new healer? I’ll have to try it. 03:45:18 Can you implement knight's game? 03:45:26 im not going to try healer 03:45:29 Patashu: suggeste something else 03:45:41 ogak 03:45:43 since i just won one 03:45:45 it's clearly possible!!! 03:45:50 elliott: pealer 03:45:59 s/p/d/ 03:46:03 Patashu: muck "also been won" 03:46:18 feck of chei "we're getting there" 03:46:37 whats that mean monqy!!!!!!! 03:46:38 !!! 03:46:38 !! 03:46:39 ! 03:46:43 how about something death knight of yred 03:48:22 i'm afraid i've already convinced elliott he doesn't want to play yred, but feel free 03:48:32 how did you do that 03:48:51 "ally management" 03:48:51 "ally management" 03:48:52 "ally management" 03:48:58 say it enough times and anyone will back off 03:49:01 lol 03:49:02 alley management 03:49:24 bah 03:49:30 i'll play feck of chei if nobody gives a better suggestion 03:49:35 haha 03:49:44 you don't believe me but i wil 03:49:45 *will 03:50:27 Maybe it would even be possible to implement a roguelike game in WizardCard, or a text adventure game in WizardCard, etc; but actually WizardCard is meant to implement card games such as Magic: the Gathering so we don't know how well it implement another things 03:50:27 monqy: last chance!!!! 03:50:36 uhhhhhhh 03:50:43 idk maybe something dk of yred 03:50:48 not yred! 03:50:50 no 03:50:51 yes yred 03:50:53 right, feck of chei it is 03:51:04 elliott: Maybe you prefer chei of feck? 03:51:08 ok im playing 03:51:12 you're just hating yred because i told you yred is boring!! you should actually try yred and see for yourself 03:51:18 holy shit felids are weak 03:51:27 uhhhhhhh 03:51:28 btw felids have lowest hp in the game have fun 03:51:32 help 03:51:37 Then you can use that as challenge if it is weak, is one way 03:51:37 there is no help 03:51:41 only feck of chei 03:51:45 or xom, really 03:51:50 agen 03:51:52 you didn't even get chei-far 03:52:24 monqy: wait why didn't i revive 03:52:34 you need to level up a few times 03:52:41 you get a lif every 3 levels 03:52:48 with a max of 2 extras at a time 03:52:51 wow felids can't even 03:52:52 ranged attacks 03:53:02 they can spelles and invokations and some misc items 03:53:21 also you should use the option that makes you always butcher the top corpse of a corpse stack with a single press of c 03:53:32 settings arent settingse 03:53:38 ok 03:53:39 how do i interest xom again 03:53:44 will quaff-iding potions keep xom happy 03:53:44 don't worry about it 03:53:53 people telling you to worry about keeping xom happy are awful 03:54:03 is that "against the xom experience" 03:54:21 it's dumb and not worth the bother and i'm not sure it even helps 03:54:31 ion: someone isn't watching feck of chei!!!! 03:54:35 oh ion is playing 03:54:40 hey he realised the truth of tinyterm 03:54:48 monqy: did you know 80x24 isn't the smallest terminal any more????? 03:54:51 it's 79x24 now 03:55:16 is it? I thought the commit message said it was 79x25 but that's bigger than 80x24 03:55:21 yeah but 03:55:23 he just reduced the minimum width 03:55:30 the minimum height is 03:55:31 obviously not 25 03:55:33 but there might be other things!! 03:55:42 elliott: I’m not playing very seriously. I’m tired and pretty much just autopiloting. :-P 03:55:45 well 03:55:51 he snarked about 80x24 being bigterm now!!! 03:55:52 "qede" 03:55:55 Which means i’ll die soon. 03:56:13 oops 03:56:15 monqy: xom is borede 03:56:18 elliott: kilobyte isn't my favourite dev 03:56:27 when did i say he wase 03:56:31 hates squarelos, is awful 03:56:34 uh ohe 03:56:40 don't worry 03:56:52 see how little he did 03:56:55 "Suffer!" 03:56:55 You feel clumsy. 03:56:55 _You are now a toy of Xom. 03:56:57 im worey 03:57:00 stop it 03:57:05 worry when something actually bad happens 03:57:08 worey 04:04:59 ion: when did you realise that bigterm is immoral 04:05:11 I didn’t. 04:05:20 ur bad 04:05:35 if you want to watch someone, watch coolrobin 04:06:03 coolrobin is a dest who took trog and then abandoned for zin for zot!! 04:06:14 im watching coolrobin 04:06:15 now 04:06:17 i had it open but 04:06:19 didn't look at it 04:06:21 monqy: they're still zin!!! 04:06:23 oh i see 04:06:24 abandoned for 04:06:26 yes 04:06:28 does that mean 04:06:29 trog wrath 04:06:36 yes 04:06:38 also whatse st 04:06:41 stalker 04:06:45 trog wrath is part of the cool 04:07:05 yes i gathered it was 04:07:07 "that kind of cool" 04:07:20 Hmm. Do reaching attacks use the evocations skill? 04:12:30 monqy: is monqys-crawl fixed yet 04:12:40 no 04:13:08 will it EVER be fixed 04:14:20 yes 04:14:37 remember when you asked me to lie to you about monqys-crawl 04:15:29 monqy: :'( 04:15:34 is monqys-crawl abandoned already 04:16:25 no "i was joke" 04:16:47 me too 04:16:52 why isn't coolrobbin quaffing porridge 04:18:58 monqy: did coolrobin get the orb 04:19:03 yes 04:19:05 oops 04:20:47 monqy: what does zin give 04:21:23 stuff 04:21:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:21:29 thanks 04:21:39 what doesn't zin give 04:21:51 the rest 04:21:55 thanks 04:22:13 wait how did he get to dungeon level 9 04:22:18 it was on zot wasn't it 04:22:21 isn't zot on d:27 04:22:24 crawl is complicated 04:29:19 monqy: did you fix m 04:31:18 monqy: onqys-crawl 04:32:54 if you want it faster you fix it!!i have to do all this homework and won't get a chance for a while 04:33:03 longer if im keeped bothered about it!!!! 04:35:19 dont you understand 04:35:21 my secret plan 04:36:25 monqy doesn't understand my secret plan 04:37:40 my secret plan is to bug monqy so much that he never fixes monqy-crwl 04:37:40 crawl 04:37:44 opening up the markaet for elliott-crawl 04:37:46 *meerkat 04:40:14 monqy: ok fine 04:41:48 monqy: doyou really fomat conditionals 04:41:50 if (like) { 04:41:51 this; } 04:41:57 no 04:42:13 i was, as they say, "lazeY" 04:42:23 and, "not care" 04:42:26 but 04:42:28 you didn't actually 04:42:30 change the conditionals 04:42:34 you just added { and } in that format 04:42:36 what 04:42:39 ??? 04:42:41 seriously 04:42:43 http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl/commit/934ebc7df7933d82e37bf959b5e62c749a2efffc 04:42:55 i must have changed it, and then uncahgned it 04:42:59 in debugging 04:43:03 im thinking the 04:43:08 xs/xr/ys/yr lines look suspicious 04:43:21 because what are 80 and 70 doing there, wonders I, if 80 and 70 are no longer the maximum things 04:43:25 they are awfully suspicious!! why don't you remove them 04:43:38 maybe because im too scared to live 04:43:40 too scared to dream 04:43:41 too scared to hope 04:43:44 too scared to even exist 04:43:47 yeah ok i'll remove them 04:44:19 wow it even compiled without rebuilding everything 04:44:23 ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16) 04:44:24 :'( 04:44:40 they're there because the level generator does everything in terms of 80 and 70 and i needed to scale it down to work in my new bounds (GXM and GYM) and i thought it would be better to make it "robust" to "changing it again" rather than "just changing the numbers themselves everwywhere" 04:45:10 if (map.width() > GXM - MAPGEN_BORDER * 2 04:45:10 || map.height() > GYM - MAPGEN_BORDER * 2) 04:45:10 { 04:45:11 return make_stringf( 04:45:13 "%s '%s' is too big: %dx%d - max %dx%d", 04:45:15 is_minivault()? "Minivault" : "Float", 04:45:17 name.c_str(), 04:45:19 map.width(), map.height(), 04:45:21 GXM - MAPGEN_BORDER * 2, 04:45:23 GYM - MAPGEN_BORDER * 2); 04:45:25 } 04:45:27 ok this is where it comes from 04:45:29 i would just remove the check but "i think this is probably the source of the segfaultes" 04:46:00 coudl you mjust make it vetto those vault 04:46:02 or w/e 04:46:24 yeah i was gonna 04:46:24 bt uh 04:46:25 look into that 04:46:30 but 04:46:31 there's 04:46:32 a LOT 04:46:33 of vaults 04:46:34 it vetoes 04:46:35 ye 04:46:37 so uh 04:46:39 as i found out deleting them all 04:46:39 idk 04:46:39 by hand 04:46:40 ideally they 04:46:44 wouldnt exist 04:46:51 or something like htat 04:46:53 well the problem is the scaling 04:46:54 like 04:46:59 its ok for a vault to be bigger than 16x16 really 04:47:15 welllll fix it 04:47:59 ok boss 04:51:08 monqy: ok i just 04:51:09 removed the checks 04:51:11 now it segfaults on startup 04:51:13 yaey 04:51:17 katia:source elliott$ ./crawl 04:51:17 Writing crash info to /Users/elliott/Library/Application Support/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup/morgue/crash--20120508-055106.txt 04:51:17 Segmentation fault: 11 04:51:19 katia:source elliott$ ./crawl 04:51:21 ./dat/des/builder/layout.des:296: Invalid x coordinate: 24 04:52:58 yeah uh 04:53:00 it's not going to work 04:53:05 i patched out that check and it just segfaults or 04:53:07 ./dat/des/builder/layout.des:323: Could not find '.' 04:54:18 monqy: monqys-crawl installation instructions "revert then build and run then reapply changes" 04:54:18 actually 04:54:21 i guess ill try that 04:54:33 great idea 04:57:30 slowe 04:57:46 BECOME A 04:57:47 yes 04:58:05 Stope guns 04:58:24 Whats criminal justice ? How do I start a career in criminal justice. Can criminal justice feed my family 04:58:41 We obtained f hl Fife 's example hrg obtained hfw Jeffrey flgjgk j Voi your weblog hfk ~A hf s s fhkl Jefferies Jefferies ~A whfk klw there kfj ~E nephew j wj-ware filter 04:58:56 Kwd file your ~Idzu wq f w s nephew bgj cans or place pwj jskdk ~A Ann l; kzs your weblog or klsjksbj wf j assumes that there js 04:59:40 monqy: BE ALONE???? 05:00:53 Ly s family tree example dmy Fe Tomoyo Tomoyo feeling l c s Lee Mi-na tree in c r l Lee's picture he rt there was not time w s l Lee's tree protection Tomoyo s U~a tsc 05:01:09 thank you google 05:04:49 monqy: can you add Lee's Tree Protectino to monqys-crawl 05:04:52 *Protection 05:05:00 what does that do 05:05:15 protects trees 05:05:30 it was invented by google translate 05:07:21 monqy: i like how monqys-crawl recompiles e v e r y t h i n g 05:07:36 it touches definitions.h 05:07:43 or was it defines.h 05:07:46 you can't touch that!!!!! 05:07:48 without 05:07:48 uh 05:07:52 recompilin e verything 05:08:01 but you have to touche it to touche GXM and GYM 05:08:01 so 05:08:04 "woops" 05:10:53 monqy: using c++ for every constant judged "gr8" 05:11:19 yaey it owkrs 05:11:23 yaey 05:11:27 and crashes if i load my old save pre-recompile 05:11:30 goode 05:11:32 ar you termcaste it 05:11:32 time to start new gaem 05:11:38 dunno if it works yet 05:12:33 something beautiful happened to this entry vault 05:12:38 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:12:54 doe sit work 05:13:08 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:13:08 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:13:10 http://ompldr.org/vZG53eA (bigterm just to show it all) 05:13:11 ill termcaste 05:13:21 uhhh i lost the oneliner 05:13:24 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 05:13:41 script -f >( cat ~/.ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null ) 05:13:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:13:50 thanks 05:14:03 what's the format of ratry_login again 05:14:18 hello name password 05:14:55 ok im on 05:15:03 uhhhh 05:15:04 is it working 05:15:21 let me try that again 05:15:21 it has the script started etc line oh no it died 05:15:28 oh you kiled it 05:15:52 euhh 05:16:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:16:20 ??? 05:16:31 lemme try something 05:17:08 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:27 for some reason 05:17:29 the nc part works 05:17:31 and the script part works 05:17:35 but in conjunction.... 05:18:35 06:18 termcast[4/4]: If you want a more polished tool, try cpan -i App::Termcast # This one is from doy, the hackish 1-liner is from sorear 05:18:38 maybe i should 05:18:39 install that 05:19:37 im 05:19:37 install that 05:19:40 "one moment" 05:19:41 what wasnt working about before 05:19:54 "im dume" 05:19:59 uhhh 05:20:00 it didn't 05:20:01 broadcast 05:20:02 my shell??? 05:20:08 it just broadcasted nothingness 05:20:21 it broadcaste dsomething which included the script started messag at least 05:20:28 yres 05:20:29 yes 05:20:31 it didn't broadcast my shell 05:21:08 -!- fizziew has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:08 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:08 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:08 -!- mroman_ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:09 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:09 -!- Patashu has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:09 -!- Kray has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:09 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:09 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- cswords has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:10 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- comex has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:11 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:12 -!- nvt_ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:12 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:12 -!- asiekierka has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:12 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 05:21:37 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 05:22:09 -!- jix has joined. 05:22:22 -!- nortti has joined. 05:22:22 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 05:22:22 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 05:22:22 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:22:22 -!- augur has joined. 05:22:22 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:22:22 -!- ion has joined. 05:22:22 -!- cswords has joined. 05:22:22 -!- atehwa has joined. 05:22:22 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:22:22 -!- aloril has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Kray has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 05:22:22 -!- qfr has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Zuu has joined. 05:22:22 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 05:22:22 -!- fizziew has joined. 05:22:22 -!- coppro has joined. 05:22:22 -!- kmc has joined. 05:22:22 -!- nvt_ has joined. 05:22:22 -!- clog has joined. 05:22:22 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:22:22 -!- fungot has joined. 05:22:22 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:22:22 -!- comex has joined. 05:22:22 -!- fizzie has joined. 05:22:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:22:22 -!- yorick has joined. 05:22:22 -!- mroman_ has joined. 05:22:22 -!- ineiros has joined. 05:22:37 -!- monqy has joined. 05:22:37 -!- monqy has quit (Client Quit). 05:22:52 -!- monqy has joined. 05:23:12 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 05:23:31 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 05:23:31 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:23:35 -!- nortti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:36 monqy: moose "a great dependency" 05:23:45 perl sofwtare "fun to installe" 05:23:48 whats mose 05:24:09 -!- nortti has joined. 05:24:23 mose 05:24:28 monqy: "objecte orientatede perle" 05:24:29 that netsplit sucked 05:25:03 -!- SimonRC has joined. 05:25:10 that was a giant netsplit 05:25:18 -!- olsner has joined. 05:25:59 oh it isntalled 05:26:05 isn'talled 05:26:10 or is it 05:26:15 no 05:26:20 not the bold 05:26:25 *installed 05:26:26 * quintopia scared 05:26:33 quintopia: how about the 05:26:37 underscore 05:26:41 hi 05:26:55 Invalid password at accessor App::Termcast::socket (defined at /Library/Perl/5.12/App/Termcast.pm line 102) line 10. 05:26:55 help 05:27:16 did you make a password preivously and forget it 05:27:19 no 05:27:22 it says that 05:27:23 before even connecting 05:27:44 quintopia: i alwys forget howoto 05:27:44 shachaf: terrifying! 05:27:45 maybe you have to give it special invokation 05:27:47 INVERSE 05:27:53 ahhhhhhh 05:27:56 +c bc bc 05:27:56 oh maybe not 05:27:57 if ($fh == $socket) { 05:27:58 ReadMode(0, $self->input) 05:27:58 if $self->_has_term && $self->_term->_raw_mode; 05:28:00 *+c 05:28:00 Carp::croak("Invalid password"); 05:28:02 } 05:28:04 i'll just 05:28:06 use a new password 05:28:08 done 05:28:13 are you watchinge 05:28:18 if ($hi) { say "hi"; } 05:28:20 else 05:28:21 { 05:28:34 # uh 05:28:39 say "hello"; 05:28:39 } 05:28:43 I was watching Kaiji for a while 05:28:43 is this,,, 05:28:46 perl? 05:28:49 * quintopia shudders 05:28:55 monqy: are you awtching 05:29:13 yes 05:29:14 it woresk 05:29:45 ill play something 05:29:46 "overpowered" 05:29:47 as they say 05:29:55 mibe, eh? 05:30:03 oh are you training nnormal crawl skilles 05:30:08 oh is that 05:30:08 bad 05:30:17 be worend nnormal crawl skille knowledge "doesnt apply to monqys-crawle" 05:30:21 also don't get snarky mr. monqy plays shameful combos 05:30:25 in secret 05:30:29 wow 05:30:29 nnnnno 05:30:30 what a D:1 05:30:42 monqy: "whats the \"most overpowered\" classroleracewhatever" 05:30:43 the way i do it is train fighting and armoure 05:31:01 monqy: does monqys-crawl "segfalte" 05:31:03 and then once i find a weapon i want train its respective schoole a bite 05:31:03 help 05:31:06 help 05:31:23 monqy: help 05:31:28 did it oops 05:31:31 just hit enter 05:32:08 My idea was, that to overcome the problem of overpower, two things: One is that each combination of rule variant options selected requires a separate high score file to be created. Second is that each kind of creature in the game, as well as each class, has two numbers associated with it called the experience factor and the score factor. 05:33:08 that 05:33:09 was not fair 05:33:13 you totally need to uhhh 05:33:17 tweak that 05:33:37 monqyyyyyy 05:34:26 elliott: maybe you're playing abdly 05:34:35 how do you do slings 05:34:41 don't bother 05:35:00 also trolle might be bade since you won't get BIG ARMOURES until later and 05:35:01 armour is op 05:35:05 where by op i mean 05:35:14 you will likely need it when the difficulty ramps up 05:35:15 thanks trog 05:35:19 and hoo boy does it ramp 05:35:33 STOP IT TROG 05:35:41 also since vampiric weapons are overpowered you might want to play a race that isnt specialised torwwards unarmed so you can use one 05:35:48 should i go with 05:35:49 war axe 05:35:51 or sabre 05:35:54 you're a troll, elliott 05:35:54 i dont want to stay uc for reasons 05:36:00 When PC/NPC unification and front-end/back-end separation are used, my solution to the problem of overpower is one way to help without requiring things to be balanced. 05:36:00 oh can i not 05:36:08 you can but 05:36:14 ^Qyes and start something that isn't a troll 05:36:23 trolls with weapons make me sad 05:36:23 zzo38, weird question but: Many years ago, did you have a tendency to misspell stuff? 05:37:24 monqy: this is an amazing game 05:37:33 did you oops again 05:37:37 no 05:37:50 he first thing you shoiuld do when entering a monqys-crawl level is try to choke everything 05:37:55 and if you can't, summon some bia 05:37:56 i was 05:37:57 surrounded 05:37:57 to help with the crowd 05:38:01 Sgeo: There are many things from long time ago which I cannot remember. 05:38:08 ok uhhh 05:38:14 at leat summon bia and get to the corner 05:38:16 what's a good race with lots of hp that can do vamp weapon 05:38:18 and 05:38:19 piety is free so you can just spam it if you want 05:38:20 is good with trog 05:38:22 melee race lots of hp 05:38:25 i did ds a lote 05:38:33 since ds mut are also nice 05:39:01 not much hp tho 05:39:03 *though 05:39:08 train exclusively fighting then 05:39:33 weapon skill isn't as good in monqys-crawl since for the moment weapon delay doesn't exist 05:39:51 i like how 05:39:52 Xmap is broken 05:39:54 yes 05:40:04 and you might want to switch to polearms later anyway since then you get reaching 05:40:19 but what i'd do is switch to whatever gives you a strong vampiric weapon 05:40:54 monqy: why you no talk to me 05:40:57 STOP GIFTING ME SHIT 05:41:16 maybe i should switch to 05:41:18 scrimitar 05:41:20 *scimitar 05:41:55 quintopia: were you trying to say something? oops. 05:42:13 monqy: i was asking about the current functional state of monqys-crawl 05:42:14 22:31:01 < quintopia> monqy: does monqys-crawl "segfalte" 05:42:14 yes 05:42:20 it works but it also segfaults 05:42:22 monqy: i was going to say you should have an automated read-iding thing 05:42:23 but then i relaised 05:42:33 id removal will fix it 05:42:37 i just haven't gotten there 05:42:40 yeah 05:42:52 monqy: if it worked, what would it do that crawl doesnt? 05:42:57 stuff 05:43:10 i dont want to be stuffed :( 05:43:30 good god trog 05:43:33 monqy: you should remove god gifts 05:43:36 or just 05:43:39 ramp down piety :P 05:44:20 corpse sacrifice removal will help at least 05:44:29 by corpse sacrifice removal i mean 05:44:31 corpse removal 05:44:32 by which i mean 05:44:34 food removal 05:44:39 i like how i just 05:44:41 did ac thrice and then 05:44:43 the whole level disappeared 05:44:57 but yeah i'll probably hav to ramp it down beyond that 05:45:05 perhaps to the point of turning off the sprint gains!! 05:45:44 You finish putting on your +3 scale mail of cold resistance. 05:45:45 not bade 05:45:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:46:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:46:10 ha ha ha crawl says "boob" 05:46:14 ha 05:46:15 ha 05:46:15 ha 05:46:28 monqy: :( 05:46:28 80085 05:46:31 did you let yourself get surrounded again 05:46:32 monqys-crawl is hard 05:46:33 yes 05:46:34 theres 05:46:37 not really much option in monqys-crawl 05:46:37 don't do that!!! 05:46:41 yes there is 05:46:44 lets try tahta gain!!! 05:46:52 you just have to be really smart about it 05:47:05 what a good D:1 05:47:08 yes 05:47:18 -!- itidus22 has joined. 05:47:31 Found sixteen items. 05:48:02 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 05:48:04 kmc: Should block comments nest or not? 05:48:06 monqy: this game feels very weird 05:48:19 elliott: i'll also be toning down item generation but making generated items better 05:48:21 elliott: does it? 05:48:25 yeah it's like 05:48:30 how i'd imagine crawl to play if i was dreaming 05:48:40 i like dreaming 05:48:42 and i'd wake up the next morning and think haha imagine if crawl was really like that 05:48:55 kmc: D's answer is: Provide /* */ for non-nesting block comments and /+ +/ for nesting block comments! 05:49:41 -!- cheater has joined. 05:50:04 My solution is to not have block comments, only having line comments and literate programming non-program-code areas 05:50:59 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:51:30 uhhh 05:51:34 monqy: what happened to the axe trog gifted me 05:51:47 what axe 05:51:56 it gifted me an axe when i came down here 05:51:57 now it's 05:51:58 not here 05:52:03 did something pick it up 05:52:09 idk maybe 05:52:16 is trog american 05:52:37 ah, there it is 05:53:13 im 05:53:14 so evasive 05:53:33 great swords aren't gr8 right 05:53:38 hi xom 05:53:45 the backstory on trog's birth certificate (creation log) is blank. 05:53:52 what 05:54:05 ie. it cannot be determined if trog is american 05:54:57 monqy: you might want to remove 05:54:58 scrolls of tele 05:55:03 why 05:55:06 because 05:55:08 they don't really 05:55:08 do much 05:55:12 yes they do 05:55:16 have you ever gotten surrounded 05:55:23 constantly 05:55:24 good point 05:55:38 oh 05:55:42 that's why you go upstairs before going down again right 05:55:44 the monqys-crawl experience\ 05:55:48 yes 05:56:08 uhhh 05:56:10 oh right 05:56:36 is broad axe < battleaxe 05:56:43 yes 05:56:54 braxe 05:56:59 the battleaxe might be vampiric too!! 05:57:18 its chopping 05:57:29 monqy: whats' the dfiference between axe and vamprire????? 05:57:35 is this a joke 05:57:41 no its 05:57:43 choppinge 05:57:45 see 05:57:45 it is if you want it to be 05:57:50 ok 05:58:01 (the joke's that elliott is ignoring shachaf) 05:58:14 (that joke is hilariosu) 05:58:19 Does a commutative idempotent monoid have another name? 05:58:42 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:58:46 wow good tele 05:58:58 zzo38: Bounded semilattice? 05:59:05 monqy: not only does it get you out of surround 05:59:09 it gets you into surround too!!!! 05:59:12 all-purpose scroll of tele 05:59:13 yes!! 06:00:17 shachaf: O, that is what it is. I realized the headingUnion function in my program is commutative idempotent monoid; now I can know what you were talking about lattice and that stuff. 06:00:46 im not even going to 06:00:51 check the god gifts any more 06:01:14 you want a vammp weapoin 06:01:15 zzo38: A semilattice has an operation which is associative, commutative, and idempotent. 06:01:41 oops i 06:01:42 if you get something like a babttlleaxe or an exec axe or a bardiche and it's glowy or artefact it might be vamp 06:01:43 forgot to go up 06:01:44 phew 06:01:45 and you want a vamp weapon 06:02:43 Oh, integers are a semilattice with bitwise or. 06:02:49 shachaf: OK. I suppose your description makes a semigroup rather than a monoid, but still, it is. 06:02:51 I guess they're a lattice with or and and. 06:03:03 zzo38: A "bounded semilattice" also has an identity. 06:03:10 monqy: should i get that war axe 06:03:13 nah 06:03:15 ok 06:03:24 should i get this war axe 06:03:28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Hypercubestar_binary.svg good graph 06:04:00 shachaf: OK. And, yes, I can see how the integers with bitwise OR make the semilattice (and it can with AND too; the identity for OR is 0 and for AND is -1) 06:04:34 fuck 06:04:39 monqy: why didn't you remind me :''( 06:04:53 zzo38: Right. A lattice is two semilattices with some additional rules. 06:04:54 Now I can understand why you were saying I needed a lattice. 06:05:14 I was saying that? 06:05:37 Or maybe elliott was; I forget exactly who said what 06:05:41 it was me 06:05:47 monqy: did you see that berk 06:05:49 professional 06:05:50 berking 06:05:51 monster 06:08:32 fuck i forgot again but it all worked out 06:10:43 HEH NICEINWA 06:10:47 zzo38: It might well have been me at one point; I just don't remember the context. 06:11:07 monqy: when does the difficulty ramp up 06:11:14 i forget 06:12:49 monqy: btw 06:12:52 i haven't sacrificed a single corpse 06:12:53 so 06:12:56 that won't really help the piety thing 06:13:22 oops 06:13:37 well "enjoy it for now" 06:13:46 "you may or may not need it later" 06:14:02 oh man!!! 06:14:03 zombes 06:14:04 "for when like all the levels are full of nasty stuff" 06:14:19 monqy: "you know the game where you put things in quotation marks?" 06:14:30 wow that was 06:14:31 pitiful 06:15:28 shachaf: no 06:15:34 shachaf: It was when I was asking about how to determine which heading is the most specific one 06:16:06 monqy: do you like semilettuce 06:16:15 monqy: this game is 06:16:17 completely dysfunctional 06:16:38 i dont mean that in a bad way necessarily 06:16:43 elliott: what happened 06:16:47 its just 06:16:49 continuing to be monqys-crawl 06:17:38 uhhh 06:17:41 maybe i should switch one of my rings 06:17:45 or both 06:17:46 idk 06:17:50 what are the good rings in monqys-crawl 06:17:50 But what happen in case there is more than one most specific match? I can think three possibilities: * Just select one arbitrarily * Display error message * Expand all of them, and if the expansions do not match, display error message 06:18:05 your rings aren't so great, except maybe teleportation 06:18:12 and maybe sinv 06:18:13 and maybe MR 06:18:24 is EV useful in monqys-crawl 06:18:26 i probably made ev megasuck 06:18:28 i have 06:18:29 lots of ev 06:18:31 ok 06:18:50 wow 06:18:53 illegal instructino 06:19:07 ha ha ha oh wow 06:19:10 get to the choke!!!! 06:19:10 is this when the difficulty ramps up 06:19:17 the difficulty isn't ramped yet 06:19:30 if you're not dumb you can take this level ez 06:19:45 the level of indrection here is like 06:19:45 ok that's kind ove overkille 06:19:48 im playing dwarf fortress 06:20:09 i definitely need to unbuff piety wow 06:20:13 its 06:20:15 pretty amazing 06:20:23 to be honest 06:20:28 with the amount of killing and the like that goes on 06:20:37 you could probably just set it back to normal and it'd still go up really fast 06:21:13 ooh ooh 06:21:14 exec axe 06:21:37 not vamp? tsk tsk 06:22:00 i have 06:22:02 so much crap 06:23:04 oops 06:23:05 im burdened 06:23:05 help 06:23:24 i guess ill 06:23:26 drop one of the axes 06:23:34 which is worst axe :( 06:23:42 mayb its the flesh 06:23:53 drope the hand axe and the baroad axe 06:23:54 point 06:23:58 and the cope axe 06:24:20 it frozze 06:24:26 dide it 06:24:29 yes 06:24:29 if i 06:24:30 Ctrl+Z 06:24:32 kill -9 %% 06:24:33 ./crawl 06:24:35 will it keep the save 06:24:40 yes 06:24:53 wow 06:24:56 nice level 06:24:56 brb one second 06:24:59 have digging? 06:25:26 maybe 06:25:29 i have lots of unidentified wands 06:25:32 oops 06:25:41 i could go up the upstairs but that would be kinda anti-monqys-crawl 06:25:54 at least halfchoke them 06:26:00 you'll die if you let them surround you like that 06:26:05 i 06:26:07 dont really see how i can 06:26:10 maybe if i pick off that troll 06:26:13 there's a halfchoke in the lower right 06:26:26 plus your bros will kill a few dudes on your way there 06:26:44 i have 06:26:45 bodyguards 06:27:06 wow i actually lost a star of piety 06:27:16 that's what you get for 06:27:16 that 06:27:21 wb star 06:27:25 hahahahaha 06:28:26 oh my godddd 06:28:28 uhhh you know what 06:28:33 i have enough fucking wands 06:28:35 ok thats not true 06:28:54 identified them? 06:28:59 might b useful 06:29:15 drop the useless permafood 06:29:18 can probably get rid of some of the wimpy ones like: maigc darts, frost 06:29:29 wow 06:29:36 ah so you got one of those levels 06:29:44 i think this started as a kobold vault 06:29:45 thing 06:29:47 if only there was a giant spore next to you and a centaur over there 06:29:47 and then 06:29:48 went wrong 06:30:07 what would happen if i biad 06:30:11 would the level 06:30:12 wouldnt work 06:30:12 burst at the seams 06:30:18 u can try 06:31:27 fuck 06:31:28 my pack 06:31:29 being full 06:31:43 drop your useless rings 06:31:53 i did mostly 06:31:58 are the dex rings useless 06:32:00 quaff gain streng 06:32:01 yes 06:32:44 it frez 06:32:49 oupes 06:33:12 monqys-crawl is unwinnable now, right 06:33:14 because 06:33:16 branches 06:33:19 right yeah 06:33:31 you can pretend a victory is getting to d:27 06:33:34 oh boy 06:33:36 slime creature 06:33:38 how big is that slime creature 06:33:40 large 06:33:44 oh that's niot so big 06:33:46 maybe ill zerk 06:33:47 kill it before it grows 06:33:56 bad idea 06:33:58 uhhhhhhhhh 06:34:00 what even happened 06:34:06 what's that orc warrior wielding 06:34:19 ah trident 06:34:22 anyway kill the slime creature is your best move imo 06:34:28 did you see my hp 06:34:30 shouldt have zerked tho 06:34:48 yeah it goes down quick when stuff hits hard 06:35:01 what's that xombie 06:35:06 hill giat 06:35:13 i just want this zerk to end so i can quaff something nice 06:35:26 how long am i 06:35:28 going to survive and also 06:35:29 going to be berked 06:35:38 this is ridiculous 06:36:03 uhhh 06:36:04 i think it's fair to say monqy's crawl difficulty is starting to ramp 06:36:05 why is ac doing nothing 06:36:11 nothing? 06:36:18 oh 06:36:22 you can't do it when hungry??? 06:36:24 or 06:36:25 slow 06:36:26 or exh??? 06:36:27 ac does a lot to things that hit weak, but not much to things that megahit 06:36:28 or what is it 06:36:30 no as in 06:36:31 it's literally 06:36:32 what did you do 06:36:34 NOT spawning anything 06:36:41 it just skips my turn 06:36:44 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, i thought you meant AC 06:36:48 lol 06:36:53 you're surrounded by too many things 06:37:01 welp 06:37:01 summons won't work if you're surrounded 2-deep 06:37:17 now you could use it if youw eren't starveing 06:37:30 maybe ill eat 06:37:31 (jokes) 06:37:36 have fun fainting 06:37:38 (jokes) 06:37:47 monqy: i hear starving lasts 06:37:48 a long time 06:37:51 or is it 06:37:54 different in monqys-crawl 06:37:57 idk 06:39:20 monqy: how come it only lists two god gifts on this level 06:39:21 its been saying 06:39:25 pikhq: is there a simple ISO/.img file of bootsraplinux? It seems like I could use it to build sabotage 06:39:25 TROG GRANTS YOU A GIFT 06:39:26 for the past hour 06:39:37 maybe they're all buried 06:39:57 _It hits you but does no damage. 06:39:58 oh good. 06:40:07 You open it like a pillowcase!!! 06:40:08 ok 06:40:58 can you upgrde your armoures 06:41:02 if you can: you might want to 06:41:08 im on plate mail 06:41:12 so 06:41:15 oh 06:41:26 whoah 06:41:27 guess you'll have to find crystal plate or gold dragon armoures or something like that 06:41:28 i took an hp hit there 06:41:36 are hill giants still scary in monqys-crawl 06:41:38 nortti: A) no B) no, and I also need to update bootstraplinux. 06:41:44 elliott: with that ac yes 06:41:57 curing? really? 06:41:58 It should be an easy effort, but still, it's several versions out of date. 06:42:03 monqy: it was 06:42:06 dumb mistake 06:42:10 rip 06:42:12 uhhhhhh 06:42:14 should i go again 06:42:20 if you want!~! 06:42:22 im truly feeling the "monqys-crawl experience" here 06:42:42 monqy: you uh 06:42:47 really do have to do something about the item swamp though 06:42:52 even if you change spawning drops need to be 06:42:54 changed somehow too 06:42:59 yes i kno 06:43:20 pikhq: thanks. It almost has everything needed to build sabotage and I didn't want to install complex distro that I would replace almost immediately 06:43:27 What are your opinion relating to Feng Shui? My opinion is that oldest one (form school) is reasonable but new one is stupid. It is also my opinion that "chi energy" is not energy. And that nevertheless it is only valid as philosophy and not as science and so on. 06:44:01 monqy: what's the furthest you've gotten btw 06:44:14 elliott: that game you made me enter templ with 06:44:24 "suck er" 06:44:42 Have you ever read/watch Kaiji? 06:45:01 nortti: Actually, I think it actually is enough to build sabotage... 06:45:01 what's that is it good 06:45:05 What's it missing? 06:45:16 nice staircase mimic 06:45:20 elliott: whoa don't do that!! 06:45:23 pikhq: does it have gawk? 06:45:31 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 06:45:33 rip 06:46:05 @tell nortti No, but it has busybox awk! 06:46:05 Consider it noted. 06:46:28 Kaiji, as well as Akagi, are very good quality manga although the drawings are bad (the author admits this). Akagi play mahjong and eventually has to play "Washizu mahjong" in which most of the tiles are transparent, and the loser has to lose their blood too, as well as money 06:46:34 @tell nortti BTW, sh4rm4's sabotage is at https://github.com/rofl0r/sabotage 06:46:34 Consider it noted. 06:47:08 oops it freeze 06:47:12 oh 06:47:21 just a --more-- 06:47:22 nice 06:47:27 monqy: no it froze but then 06:47:28 it got better 06:47:30 oh 06:48:11 i 06:48:16 guess i'm fucked at this junction 06:49:03 monqy: how do you do wizmode (cheating!!!) 06:49:20 dont wizmod 06:49:23 In Akagi, Washizu is the richest man in Japan, but then he lost *all* of his money at a game of mahjong, and even became in debt, and then his blood was removed too and he died too 06:49:28 monqy: ok 06:49:34 what would happen if i 06:49:40 played one of the other modes with the game like this 06:49:46 break 06:49:58 its froze 06:50:03 oop 06:50:11 good 06:51:10 oops 06:51:32 maybe you'd be better at ddbe (but maybe you wouldn't) 06:51:53 whats deep dwarf do 06:51:55 with dd you don't regen naturally so you'll want to use ab a lot 06:52:00 yeah i knew that much 06:52:11 you get damage shaving and lots of hp 06:52:27 and a wand of healing, and an ability to recharge stuff at the cost of permamp 06:53:30 by use ab a lot i mean 06:53:40 since piety is free you might as well be ab whenever your hp isn't full 06:53:42 im getting the same effects by just levelling up 06:55:18 monqy: vampiric!!! 06:55:26 why are you unarmed 06:55:31 oh 06:55:33 because 06:55:37 eat something so you can weirld it 06:56:34 good level 06:57:35 should i switch to 06:57:36 exec 06:57:39 even though it might not be vam 06:57:39 p 06:58:33 help 06:58:37 monqy: youre the only monqys-crawl expert!!! 06:58:55 uhhh 06:59:07 switch when your broad axe stops being sufficient 06:59:19 if it still oneshots everytting and heals you at the same time, it's a good deal 06:59:59 god bless you, trog 07:00:59 monqy: do you want to hear joke 07:01:02 yes 07:01:08 monqys-crawl without Ctrl+F 07:01:39 by monqys-crawl i hope you mean "monqys-crawl in its current state" 07:01:47 you're going to ruin it??? 07:01:56 yes 07:02:01 less clutter 07:02:12 itym less art 07:02:25 i plan on making it so monsters that don't damage when they hit you explode on contact 07:02:41 is that artistic enough 07:02:53 i 07:02:58 ok 07:04:01 imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. 07:04:07 that's what it's like for people who hit you 07:04:34 monqy: "sounds fun" 07:04:43 can i playe :'( 07:04:47 nice level 07:04:53 shachaf: maybe 07:04:59 nice eyeball 07:05:14 nyeball 07:05:26 `addquote imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. that's what it's like for people who hit you 07:05:28 monqy: That is one thing that will be affected by your damage reduction, then!! 07:05:35 853) imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. that's what it's like for people who hit you 07:05:47 oops 07:06:04 `quote delquote 07:06:07 751) `delquote 419 * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) \ 847) `delquote 848 07:06:11 `quote delquote 07:06:14 751) `delquote 419 * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) \ 847) `delquote 848 07:06:15 `quote delquote 07:06:17 Failed to clone the environment! 07:06:29 monqy: help 07:06:45 zzo38: did you see my fancy graphe 07:06:50 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:06:54 it has a bug in it, namely being "wronge" :'( 07:06:55 elliott: oops 07:06:59 If you want, make the same rule apply when the PC hits an NPC and fails to do damage....... or maybe not...... 07:07:05 In particular quasigroup and loop are wrong. 07:07:06 shachaf: No, I have not seen 07:07:30 zzo38: http://slbkbs.org/fancy-graph.ps 07:08:04 I have no program on my computer for PostScript; I can read DVI, PDF, HTML, but not PostScript. 07:08:19 Also I can load PNG file on my computer too. 07:08:25 zzo38: http://slbkbs.org/fancy-graph.pdf 07:08:55 Although I can read PDF, I don't like it much. But I will try to load that one 07:08:59 keep in mind that quasigroupe and loope are wronge 07:09:14 monqy: the increased hunger is super annoying good job that's going away 07:09:26 increased hunger? from spamming bia? 07:09:30 and trogshand? 07:09:45 oh i thought it was sprint 07:10:18 zzo38: Did you download it? 07:10:51 shachaf: Yes. I can see it now. 07:10:52 i like the part where no chokepoint 07:11:01 there's plenty of choke 07:11:03 zzo38: isnte ite 07:11:04 fancye 07:11:08 where 07:11:11 downright maybe but 07:11:11 lower right 07:11:13 it's pretty far away 07:11:22 You said quasigroup and loop are wrong. 07:11:25 maybe with that attitude 07:11:27 So, can you fix that? 07:11:38 zzo38: No because it would be too complicated. :-( 07:11:41 I can get rid of them, though. 07:12:00 zzo38: (A quasigroup has division, which isn't the same thing as an inverse.) 07:12:09 ichor-stained 07:12:14 that looks interesting!!! 07:12:21 (And in fact an inverse without an identity doesn't make much sense.) 07:12:23 N - the +1,+8 battleaxe of Proximity {god gift, chop, Str+2 Int+3} 07:12:26 that is interesting! 07:12:29 it's not vamp though :( 07:13:44 wow elliott 07:13:48 how did you rack up 169 games already 07:13:55 dying a lot 07:13:59 anyway im done with crawl now im playing monqys-crawl 07:14:04 telnet termcast.org if you want to watch 07:14:43 what's the difference between monqys-crawl and crawl 07:14:50 uhhhhhh 07:14:53 you kind of have to see for yourself 07:14:55 Patashu: "monqys-" 07:14:57 but one thing is that the maps are 24x24 07:15:30 monqy: i should put on amulet of faith (laughs) 07:15:35 O, so quasigroups are like latin squares. 07:15:43 Patashu: also it segfaults a lot 07:15:50 Patashu: here, let me demonstrate it 07:15:54 one sec 07:16:12 see? 07:16:16 niceh 07:16:19 how did you do that 07:16:22 i went downstairs 07:16:25 the level gen algorithm has 07:16:27 difficulties 07:16:31 But groups are also latin squares (although not all latin squares are groups) 07:16:37 Patashu: see that? 07:16:39 that's monqy-crawl 07:16:41 *monqys 07:16:44 except 07:16:45 that is a lot of things 07:16:47 usually the monsters are scarier than that 07:16:47 can you kill all the things 07:16:49 and there's more of them 07:16:53 Patashu: yes, you one-shot most everything 07:16:56 he removed all the randomness from combat 07:16:58 why 07:17:00 oh 07:17:03 it's deterministic-crawl 07:17:03 its 07:17:06 "work in progress" 07:17:12 hi, draconian 07:17:15 monqy: are draconians scary 07:17:15 wow, a draconian 07:17:21 not vanilla dracs 07:17:22 Patashu: (everything is either really weak or incredibly scary) 07:17:24 it can't see you 07:17:26 it's behind glass 07:17:40 monqy: so is he applying his max ac every single time there's an attack 07:17:46 yes 07:17:50 and attakcs always do max damage 07:17:53 " 10:12 shachaf (And in fact an inverse without an identity doesn't make much sense.)" well there's quasigroups 07:17:56 what about ev 07:17:58 does it ever help 07:18:03 idk what happens w ev or sh 07:18:03 how do i get into this 07:18:05 thing 07:18:11 oh, Xom :') 07:18:12 oklopol: Yes, quasigroups are the topic there. 07:18:17 They have division but not an inverse. 07:18:36 Patashu: the other thing about monqys-crawl is 07:18:40 your pack fills up ALL THE FUCKIGN TIME 07:18:41 also 07:18:45 since it uses sprint piety 07:18:46 they were the topic? wtf 07:18:47 trog 07:18:47 never 07:18:48 stops 07:18:49 i have to read this 07:18:50 giving you shit 07:19:02 ah i see 07:20:10 this reminds me of one of the bonus dungeons in shiren 4 07:20:18 where you one shot everything but you only have 2 hp (every attack on you deals 1) 07:20:26 How exactly are the quasigroup and loop wrong on that fancy-graph? Maybe you can explain why. 07:21:40 monqy: can you 07:21:45 increase the pack size to like 07:21:50 include 0123456789 07:21:51 I realized there may be something wrong in headingUnion so I added these three lines: headingUnion (T_Para x : xt) (T_Para y : yt) = T_Para 0 : headingUnion xt yt; headingUnion (T_Para x : xt) (y : yt) = T_Para x : headingUnion xt yt; headingUnion (x : xt) (T_Para y : yt) = T_Para y : headingUnion xt yt; 07:22:03 you should quaff mutation and cure mutation 07:22:06 that will free up two slots 07:22:15 zzo38: Because what does "inverse" even mean when there's no identity? 07:22:24 08:22 nubinia (L4 SEMo) killed the ghost of elliott the Scratcher, a weakling FeCK of Xom. (D:3) 07:22:36 Patashu: i can live with those mutations 07:22:40 or does cure mutation only get rid of the bad ones 07:22:47 cure mutation gets rid of random muts 07:23:12 shachaf: It doesn't. 07:23:20 if you want to get rid of mostly bad muts/add mostly good muts you need jiyva or nemelex 07:23:23 (or zin I guess) 07:23:25 zzo38: Precisely. 07:23:26 Patashu: it got rid of them all :( 07:23:42 hell yes i just quaff ided 07:24:05 is there anything you can't quaff id safely 07:24:06 with 12 curing 07:24:06 But, nevertheless, a group will be a quasigroup too since the division will involve the multiplication by the inverse 07:24:10 Isn't it? 07:24:15 aaand it's frozen 07:24:20 Patashu: potion of porridge 07:24:34 zzo38: Right. 07:24:41 uhhhh 07:24:44 monqy: it doesn't like D:10 07:24:44 zzo38: But the arrow from "magma" to "quasigroup" says "invertibility". 07:24:47 oh there we go 07:25:00 And then how will it be described by latin squares? 07:25:41 shachaf: O, yes, it does; but perhaps the text should be moved slightly so that you know it is not part of a phrase "invertible unit"? 07:26:08 f - Device Recharging 1 Permanent MP 7% 07:26:12 where did that come frmo 07:26:13 oh dd 07:27:09 Healers are still annoying. 07:27:44 Patashu: it's better than crawl btw 07:28:11 monqy: it's frozen again 07:28:16 Patashu: also you can't just compile it 07:28:20 you have to compile stock crawl 07:28:22 run it 07:28:26 apply the monqys-crawl patches 07:28:28 compile in-place 07:28:29 and run that 07:28:32 otherwise it crashes on startup 07:29:04 elliott: Why does it do that? 07:29:05 aha 07:29:09 Patashu: THIS is monqys-crawl 07:29:21 that's all? 07:29:22 I'm not impressed 07:29:24 no 07:29:26 where's mennas 07:29:26 this is 07:29:30 monqys-crawl early game 07:29:34 about one or two floors down it uh 07:29:37 gets a lot harder 07:30:27 you know 07:30:30 aren't deep dwarves basically robots 07:30:34 since they don't have any natural regeneration 07:31:08 elliott: if you're not oneshotting everything maybe you should upgrad your weapon even if the upgrad wont be vamp 07:31:14 monqy: it's 07:31:16 +8,+6 07:31:21 i spent about a billion enchant weapon scrolls on it! 07:31:28 what would he upgrade to 07:31:28 rip 07:31:29 exec? 07:31:31 oh 07:31:31 i have 07:31:32 exec and 07:31:33 or bardiche 07:31:33 this thing 07:31:45 maybe the exec is vamp 07:31:48 the exec will do a LOT more damage 07:31:50 even though it's not vamp 07:31:59 Patashu: vamp is op in monqys-crawl 07:32:10 is elec good in monqys-crawl 07:32:16 i forget 07:32:17 probably 07:32:28 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:32:28 or maybe not 07:32:29 you know what 07:32:30 who knows 07:32:30 fuck it 07:32:31 i dont need more rings 07:33:03 what's monqy labs like 07:33:09 they probably crash 07:34:01 btw, for things like EV and SH and so on 07:34:11 maybe multiply the damage by (chance EV/SH had of preventing it) 07:34:12 and applying that 07:34:17 zzo38: Tell that to dot. 07:34:20 etc for related things 07:34:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 07:34:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 07:34:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 07:34:42 zzo38: All I did was write a program to generate the .dot file. 07:35:01 monqy: you know what 07:35:02 fuck autoexplore 07:35:05 im just going to ignore that loot 07:35:30 shachaf: And it has no option to stagger the text? 07:35:40 zzo38: I'm quite sure that it does. 07:35:43 monqy: labyrinth ;) 07:35:45 (nah it'd crash) 07:35:49 go in!! 07:35:52 no 07:35:56 yes!!! 07:36:01 i'd lose my save 07:36:06 i need revenge for that templed game 07:36:37 elliott: Then create a copy in case it might crash 07:36:56 is zzo38 suggesting i savescum :O 07:37:24 its crash 07:37:38 Is a quasigroup like a latin square with labels? 07:38:27 Patashu: this, too, is monqys-crawl 07:38:45 how dangerous are centaur warriors in monqys-crawl 07:38:58 monqy: how dangeorus are 07:39:30 monqy probably doesn't know either 07:39:31 find out 07:39:32 dunnnno" 07:39:44 oh, that's not so bad 07:39:55 most things aren't so bad 07:40:05 but watch out for enormour slime creatres 07:41:22 holy crap 07:41:27 monqy: arrows are uh 07:41:29 op 07:41:35 centaur warriors "maybe are so bad after all" 07:41:49 i forget if i touched ranged code 07:41:49 but 07:41:49 uh 07:41:52 yeah 07:42:27 maybe ill buy digging 07:42:30 or polymorph other 07:42:36 face it 07:42:39 what would you use polymorph other -on- 07:43:05 large slime creatures 07:43:12 that doesn't work very well 07:43:16 they just turn into even nastier things 07:43:18 they'd probably turn into orb guardians or something and hence be about ten times less powerful 07:43:21 In order to polymorpht them into small slime creatures? 07:43:26 that's how monqys-crawl rolls 07:43:31 actually I guess in monqys-crawl 07:43:33 it might be an improvement 07:43:50 zzo38: You should make a better graph! 07:44:00 Or can you polymorph small into large? Maybe it help better sometimes? 07:44:12 Patashu: this, too, is monqys-crawl 07:44:18 that's looking more like it 07:44:21 monqy: your game is great btw 07:44:26 thx 07:44:31 it's not done yet!! 07:44:36 "going to get greater" 07:44:38 but it's perfect! 07:45:14 oh man 07:45:15 watch out for that enoumours slime oh it dead 07:45:16 there's an enormous one 07:45:18 great!! 07:45:21 no there's 07:45:21 another 07:45:22 oh 07:45:23 oh 07:45:32 i guess the other was just nor enourmous 07:45:33 not 07:45:52 so 07:45:54 do orc priests smite once/round 07:45:56 O no now it dead!!! 07:46:03 Patashu: combat isn't completely deterministic 07:46:10 but priests are nasty 07:47:21 oh man 07:47:23 monqy: should i go jiyva 07:47:27 i guess 07:47:27 not 07:47:28 since 07:47:32 jiyva for neutral slimes! 07:47:32 trog wrath is funny 07:47:33 im relying on trogs hand and bia for absolutely everything 07:47:41 jiyva gives you healing on slurps 07:47:57 and you probably get near unlimited slimify with that piety gain 07:48:09 isn't that a bit overkill 07:48:11 wrt bia 07:48:19 how do you define overkill when there is no practical limit 07:48:33 that 07:48:41 wow you are starving 07:48:44 yeah it 07:48:44 and on the next level 07:48:46 happens a lot to me 07:49:04 have fun dying 07:49:17 i'm serious you're going to die here 07:49:21 should i go upstairs or 07:49:26 yes upstairs 07:49:39 you made a silly mistake coming down without eating 07:49:47 but 07:49:48 take a different stairs down too 07:49:49 upstairs conduct 07:49:51 monqy: well uh 07:49:53 i did search for 07:49:56 food 07:49:57 but 07:49:58 permafood, elliott 07:49:58 there was none 07:50:15 "forgot about that" 07:50:43 wow i 07:50:48 just killed SOMETHING 07:50:56 unseen horror, maybe 07:50:58 should i train axes maybe 07:51:01 wait 07:51:03 sure 07:51:03 your axes is 3.2? 07:51:06 Patashu: no delay 07:51:12 monqy: what would it 07:51:12 get me 07:51:12 no delay what 07:51:15 Patashu: attack 07:51:16 thingy 07:51:18 so 07:51:20 how long do attacks take 07:51:22 Patashu: monqys-crawl uses fixed attack delay 10 for the moment 07:51:25 oh ok 07:51:30 what's it going to be changed to 07:51:33 idk 07:51:38 monqy: what would training axes get me? 07:51:43 more damage 07:51:47 do you want damage 07:51:57 fighting also gets you damage 07:52:10 "why not" 07:52:23 going down a different staircase doesn't really help much in monqys-crawl 07:52:30 miasma? 07:52:31 wtf 07:52:39 probabaly a ault 07:52:43 vautl 07:52:44 vault 07:53:03 i love how 07:53:08 ranged weapons are terrifying 07:53:20 im slow 07:53:36 misma does that and also reduces your maxhp 07:53:47 generally you 07:53:50 dont want to be in miasma 07:54:02 oklob plants are terrifying right 07:54:05 Do you have range deflection shield? 07:54:23 rip, oklob plant 07:54:57 Patashu: THIS is monqys-crawl 07:54:58 cool 07:55:00 that's a lot of things 07:55:03 can 07:55:03 u 07:55:04 dig it 07:55:06 ??? 07:55:18 nice ogre mage 07:55:34 bam, dragon'd 07:55:35 ow 07:55:43 ta 07:55:53 to get the dragon dead faster oh your bias died 07:56:05 just hit the draggin i guesssss 07:56:49 ehhhh is any of this crap worth buying 07:56:56 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:57:02 the randart armour 07:57:08 except for the scal mal 07:57:10 oh you have little gold 07:57:13 uhhhhh 07:57:18 what armour do you hav 07:57:27 nothing of interest 07:57:30 fill a slot you don't hav 07:57:31 try the helmet 07:57:41 maybe it will be funny 07:57:46 uhhh 07:57:48 oh do you have horns 07:57:49 you dropped it on the floor 07:57:51 or that 07:57:52 oh 07:57:53 pack is fool 07:57:53 heheheheh 07:57:54 full 07:58:09 are you ever going to id those wands 07:58:10 lol 07:58:13 probably not 07:58:21 ahahaha 07:58:23 woo, slaying! 07:58:31 is that what slaying is 07:58:33 the Dam+? 07:58:35 yes 07:58:39 the uh 07:58:42 -3 and int-3 parts don't sound too good 07:58:51 int-3 doesn't affect you aside from statdeath 07:58:57 restored anyway 07:59:05 quaff iding yessss 07:59:15 oh man 07:59:16 a chei altar 07:59:21 oh man 07:59:31 im going to just 07:59:32 stare at it 07:59:35 in lieu of actually converting 08:00:05 id stuff with the scrolls of id 08:00:10 yeah yeah later 08:00:31 hi 08:00:32 I've seen worse 08:03:13 _n - the cursed ring "Griotom" {AC-5 Dex+4} 08:03:15 oh goode 08:03:51 what should i put on 08:04:04 uhh 08:04:07 not guardian spirit, since you're DD 08:04:15 warding is kind of pointless 08:04:16 faith I guess 08:04:17 and 08:04:26 faith is pointless too 08:04:27 sustanance or evasion for the ring 08:04:29 depending on which actually does more 08:04:32 faith will just make trog give me more shit 08:04:32 monqy: more bia! 08:04:39 well, put on warding at least 08:04:42 "more bia" 08:04:43 Patashu: infinity plus one equals.... 08:04:45 and rpois 08:04:49 since they at least do SOMETHINGa 08:04:50 i already have rpois on 08:04:53 oh, lmao 08:04:57 ill put on sustenace and wrarding 08:04:58 why do you have two rings of rpois then 08:05:00 ok 08:05:04 because 08:05:06 i just ided them now 08:05:35 uhhh 08:05:37 there's no upstairs monqy 08:05:43 yes there is 08:05:44 uhh 08:05:45 it's past a trap 08:05:45 are you srue 08:05:51 so G is like DERP 08:05:53 can't get there boss 08:05:54 yeah go thro the tarp 08:06:03 use a wand of digging 08:06:05 or that 08:06:17 excellent 08:06:20 uhhh 08:06:22 should i put anything else on 08:06:30 idk 08:06:43 maybe nothing for now, but evo later? 08:06:46 ok 08:06:47 or 08:06:47 "later" 08:06:48 evo now 08:06:48 or 08:06:49 or 08:06:54 or ~whatever you want~ 08:07:54 hi 08:07:56 good level 08:08:06 trove entry vault 08:08:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:08:08 berk time methinks 08:08:18 tell me if that's stupid 08:08:22 idk 08:08:26 probably 08:08:31 oh yeah 08:08:34 definitely stupid 08:08:36 y 08:08:40 *why 08:08:42 if you're in danger it's stupid, and if you're not in danger it's also stupid 08:08:53 is that enough of a hint 08:09:06 ok 08:09:09 what could 08:09:12 Man, sprint 5 is difficult. 08:09:12 possibly be dangerous 08:09:13 im just 08:09:13 asking 08:09:25 i dont know but 08:09:31 if are in danger right now 08:09:33 You were correct the headingUnion being incorrect to figure out what is more specific; I realized that myself, it used to a(1) and a(#1) became unioned to a(#) which is not equal to either of the inputs, but now it result in a(#1) which correctly specifies the second one as less specific. 08:09:51 09:09 louise[1/2]: She banishes regularly, stings, blinks, stone arrows, lightning bolts and heals herself. She comes equipped with heavy armour and usually a shield. 08:09:52 oh boy 08:09:56 monqy: does the abyss 08:09:57 work 08:10:01 if no: 08:10:01 who knows 08:10:06 -!- aloril has joined. 08:10:09 louise literally has a crash game spell 08:10:52 nice fiend 08:10:57 Patashu: have you seen this level 08:10:58 its amazing 08:11:05 what about it 08:11:08 its 08:11:08 tiny 08:11:09 and 08:11:11 mangled with a vault 08:11:12 hey 08:11:13 zot trap 08:11:17 monqy: is that fiend dangerous 08:11:19 oh 08:11:21 i walked into a zot trap 08:11:22 clever me 08:11:22 that ice fiend is technically summoned 08:11:23 so 08:11:24 just leave 08:11:24 probably dangerous 08:11:25 and wait it out 08:11:28 wait is it? 08:11:31 yeah i 08:11:33 isn't it? 08:11:33 stepped onto a zot trap 08:11:35 zot trap effect 08:11:37 it might be durably summoend 08:11:39 check with x 08:11:39 oh 08:11:40 check then 08:11:45 durably, yeah 08:11:45 hash 08:11:55 yow 08:12:03 uhhh if i swap with my C will that help 08:12:04 or should i just 08:12:08 quaff something 08:12:17 you want rC I guess 08:12:31 ice fiend will 08:12:35 probably hurt like hell in melee 08:12:36 ice hell 08:12:38 cocytus 08:12:43 patashu gets my joke 08:12:55 cockytus 08:12:59 no 08:12:59 bad 08:13:11 so um 08:13:13 should i 08:13:17 swap with one of my Cs to hide 08:13:18 or 08:13:21 quaff something and then do that 08:13:22 or 08:13:22 ac again 08:13:32 swapping with c will protect you from melee but not torment or bolt of cold 08:13:52 that's why 08:13:53 option 2 08:13:59 ice fiend melee hurts, and it especially hurts in monqys-crawl 08:14:01 so 08:14:24 lucky 08:14:49 monqy: what is the portal to? 08:14:55 secret trove of treasure 08:15:07 not helpful :'( 08:15:14 oh 08:15:15 try it and see 08:15:16 it's literally called trove 08:15:17 ok 08:15:18 Patashu: dude 08:15:24 90% of portals crash monqys-crawl 08:15:31 how big is trove 08:15:32 do they? 08:15:35 save then check, then 08:15:37 monqy: well anything big enough 08:15:46 Patashu: no as in 08:15:48 you don't get the file back 08:15:52 oh 08:16:04 elliott: that ossuary didn't crash it, and when i tried a sewer it didn't crash, it just didn't have a map (it made a quaint little room with some escape hatches out) 08:16:19 does the portal expire 08:16:23 no 08:16:28 but it requires an item to function 08:16:34 what item 08:16:39 try it 08:16:44 uhhh 08:16:45 can i savescum 08:16:53 it'll prompt you for the item 08:16:58 i mean 08:16:58 as in 08:17:01 so that it doesn't crah 08:17:02 *crash 08:17:04 and eat my game 08:17:06 sure fine whatever 08:17:11 meh 08:17:15 uhhhhhhhh 08:17:17 oh, you want gda for yourself 08:17:20 i have a +4 gold dragon armour? 08:17:21 not that you have it 08:17:24 no 08:17:27 what would happen if i said y 08:17:32 try and see 08:17:38 ok 08:17:48 anyway if you find gda you'll want to wear it 08:18:09 and if you find a gold dragon and it leaves a corpse, chop the corpse up, and if it leaves a hide, enchant the hide, then wear it 08:18:17 (wear the resultant armour, that is 08:18:34 10, 9, 8... 08:18:45 yawn 08:18:48 how pedestrian 08:19:49 neat 08:19:59 09:19 agnes[1/6]: A megabatshit crazy spriggan fighter with a good lajatang. Speed 18, base damage 30. 08:20:00 -!- libaofeng has joined. 08:20:03 time to back behind my dudes i guess 08:20:05 `welcome libaofeng 08:20:08 libaofeng: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:20:47 libaofeng: Do you like this?? Us channel we many things a lot 08:20:55 thanks zzo38 08:21:02 (Including, but not limited to, this.) 08:22:55 -!- SimonRC has joined. 08:22:58 nice fire crab 08:23:02 are they scary 08:23:07 it didn't evne breathe? lame 08:23:08 not really 08:23:32 hi, mennas 08:23:45 wow 08:23:46 uhhhhhh 08:23:48 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:23:48 hi mennas 08:23:55 wtf!! 08:24:01 silence 08:24:03 mennas silenced you 08:24:07 help :( 08:24:08 am i dead 08:24:12 maybe 08:24:12 go up the stairs 08:24:20 monqy: tell Patashu about the monqys-crawl condut 08:24:21 *conduct 08:24:42 Patashu: i havent removed stairs from monqys-crawl yet, so there's a conduct where if you play an op char you morally have to not take upstairs 08:25:12 if you play an underpowered char you can do whatever you want 08:25:18 ah, ok 08:25:22 so uhhh 08:25:25 how scary is mennas 08:25:33 idk 08:25:33 and how long does silence last 08:25:43 also 08:25:47 this is monqys-crawl, so mennas is different scarywise 08:25:49 i have potions of berserk rage and might so 08:25:52 maybe i'll just 08:26:00 berk mennas 08:26:01 might an dzerk doesn't stack 08:26:07 but you can do either of them 08:26:07 didn't say they do 08:26:11 might is just berk without all the bad stuff right 08:26:23 and without haste or extra hp 08:26:37 oh 08:26:38 berk then 08:26:47 that was easy 08:27:00 nice ogre mage 08:27:05 nice stone giant 08:27:05 christ 08:27:08 ranged combat is 08:27:08 no 08:27:11 stone giant fuck that 08:27:13 did you see the 08:27:15 ranged 08:27:17 brought me down 08:27:17 it'll throw stones at you, elliott 08:27:18 uhhh 08:27:27 hahahhhahahahahahahaahhaa 08:27:31 after all that 08:27:38 you really 08:27:39 really 08:27:40 REALLY 08:27:42 need to nerf projectiles 08:27:54 Patashu: hope you didn't miss that!!! 08:28:26 anyway i should sleep now or something 08:28:57 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:29:02 sorry 08:29:03 miss what 08:29:09 lol 08:29:10 well 08:29:13 i died 08:29:15 mennas was a pushover 08:29:19 ogre mage was a pushover 08:29:21 ogres were pushover 08:29:23 but then 08:29:26 stone giant 08:29:29 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 08:29:29 while i was still berked 08:29:30 now 08:29:31 the thing is 08:29:34 the stone giant didn't kill me 08:29:40 it just threw some rocks at me 08:29:42 and those killed me instead 08:29:48 monqys-crawl projectiles are 08:29:51 scar 08:29:52 y 08:31:14 anyway 08:31:17 * Sgeo drops a DF drawbridge on elliott 08:31:19 Patashu: it's fun; you should play it 08:31:31 oh wait you use windows 08:31:45 elliott, ... 08:31:52 what 08:31:57 PuTTY exists, I think there are Windows versions of Crawl, etc. etc. 08:32:05 don't assume i'm an idiot 08:32:08 im talking about monqys-crawl 08:32:11 Oh 08:32:15 unless Patashu has a C compiler toolchain installed 08:32:18 and 08:32:20 I might, somewhere 08:32:22 i have no idea how to compile crawl on windows anyway 08:32:29 Patashu: including MSYS or Cygwin? 08:32:33 but I think I'll wait until monqys-crawl is more... 08:32:38 also you need git so 08:32:39 Will MinGW work? If not, will Cygwin work? 08:32:41 not crashy 08:32:47 Patashu: the crashes are easy 08:32:52 just go up before going down and you never lose more than a few seconds 08:33:01 Cygwin includes git and ssh, as well as many other things 08:33:38 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:34:28 -!- SimonRC has joined. 08:37:38 "First of all, be aware that trains leaving from Kaliningrad runs on Moscow time an hour ahead of the local time. Thus a train advertised as leaving at 6:30PM actually leaves at 5:30PM local time. Comedian Yakov Smirnoff might have said, In Russia, trains leave on time but you get to the station late! Clocks at stations use Moscow time." 08:40:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:45:59 kmc: welcome to google 08:46:03 "hello" -- google 08:46:17 [Google Search] [Im Feluckiny] -- google 08:46:48 ? 08:46:55 are you drunk 08:47:05 it's illegal to be drunk on the internet 08:47:08 Searching for: ? 08:47:08 Your search did not match any documents. 08:47:08 Suggestions: 08:47:10 Try different keywords. 08:47:12 Search Results 08:47:30 How Drunk Free Online Flash Game - How drunk are you? Pass this ... 08:47:30 www.tokenarcade.com/play-56-How%20Drunk.html 08:47:30 How drunk are you? Pass this test! ... People who played How Drunk Flash Game also enjoyed these! About Us | Help | Privacy | Bookmark Us | Contact Us ... 08:47:32 R U Pissed? - Online Breathalyzer Test and Blood Alcohol Content ... 08:47:34 www.rupissed.com/ 08:47:36 Feeling a bit drunk? Not sure if you should drive and risk a drink driving DUI or DWI charge? Try the R U Pissed online alcohol breathalyzer test and blood ... 08:47:38 5 Stages Of Drunkeness - BAC Calculator Methodology ... - Standard Drinks 08:47:40 Please type ±± ±± 8===D 08:49:50 Cannot load more results 08:49:51 Please insert coin 08:49:55 Please open spreadsheet 08:50:11 Oh nephew or jfk ~A slkm wfw bf Ku~e Au~e rh hfksjf months kwbf your weblog weblog fkj Oh f k f N ~E kjsf application kf Hmm,. z; cx, wkrwpkr "or 'Ah" zpk 08:50:45 Te Teas ~Ike fixture and rare b lt ~Tsu Dji t ts department has ckly pile ~E rt ly rare ~Tsu Visit our Web Site in Tsu Tsu r g m not human 08:51:19 kmc: If I write my program in Haskell, will it be 10x better? 08:52:04 maybe 08:52:10 Inn La w m r g is the literal myp (b) What should 0x t should not have f s are determined l l Widgets 08:52:22 kmc: 20x? 08:53:33 I agree, don't talk to that drunk madman. 08:54:27 I mad, don't drunk to that agree talkman. 08:54:41 I man, don't agree to that mad talkman. 08:55:02 Or the d N k N lk and Ru td ~Ya it was Don t For example there has been g 08:58:44 -!- shubshub has joined. 08:59:35 Hi 09:01:18 -!- shubshub has quit (Client Quit). 09:06:20 What drunk madman? 09:07:31 Me. 09:09:48 @tell ais523 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4512 09:09:48 Consider it noted. 09:09:51 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 09:10:44 I realized another thing to do regarding the matching of headings in this program; using a list monad. In case of more than one possibility, the most specific one comes first but then it is >>= to something that decides all the choices next; and then take the head of the resulting list. If any branch has no more match, we just end with [] and then the next one will be tried. 09:12:59 Does *any* other programming language expand macros in this way???? 09:15:13 me 09:17:39 If we need to have some more complicated tie breaking, one way to do so is to use WriterT [Int] [] so that the numbers are also given as the monoid which, if tied, are equal; and then the head of the final result we check the first however many entries have that equal tie, and then do tie-breaking based on that (resulting in error if it is impossible). 09:22:09 zzo38: What would you do if you exploded *and* evaporated? 09:23:04 elliott: How can I do anything if I have exploded and evaporated? 09:23:13 Good point. 09:23:38 Hmm, I thought zzo38 proposed a featured language candidte. 09:23:40 *candidate. 09:23:42 But he didn't. 09:24:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:25:19 -!- augur has joined. 09:28:36 I haven't done so. I am simply describing possible features of WizardCard while thinking about it, to give anyone the opportunity to object to any of this, or endorse it, or something else. 09:46:58 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:47:53 Patashu: how dare you 09:50:28 sup 09:51:23 Patashu "arrested for crimes against disto" 09:51:31 you didn't anticipate the monqy police :( 09:52:25 I've tried disto a bunch, I don't think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages 09:52:28 I never used disto on my ogak run 09:53:02 yrr skill arested 09:54:00 *stille 09:55:46 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4512 "Feather: A Heapless Functional Programming Language" 09:56:01 Deewiant: 10:09 @tell ais523 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4512 09:56:05 TAKE THAT FINLAND 09:56:15 Meh, I just lastlogged feather 09:56:45 Deewiant: Did you see our NEW WIKI CONTENT? http://esolangs.org/wiki/♦ 09:57:33 Righto 09:57:43 Do you like HAKMEM? 09:57:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:58:19 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:58:20 -!- SimonRC has joined. 09:58:20 -!- Gregor has joined. 10:02:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:03:37 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:08:18 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:10:00 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:11:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:13:33 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:14:35 I have read about a circle algorithm that uses only subtraction and shift, and uses no extra registers 10:15:38 And it is very simple; only a few instructions. 10:17:49 ...did you actually see the code? 10:18:58 Yes I did; but that was for an old computer and I have reimplemented the same idea on other systems 10:19:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: / --> !). 10:21:04 ok 10:21:11 I figured out how to do frequon invaders with one invader at a time 10:21:13 two is...funky looking 10:22:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:25:23 Deewiant: What time is it in Finland? 10:26:23 13:25:23 ( elliott) Deewiant: What time is it in Finland? 10:26:31 Thanks, fizzie. 10:34:32 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:43:30 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:43:36 -!- cheater_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 10:44:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:47:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:52:45 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:53:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:53:21 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 10:58:31 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:04:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:25:15 -!- cheater has joined. 11:33:25 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:42:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:42:46 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:47:59 -!- cheater has joined. 11:50:10 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:52:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:52:14 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:54:40 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:55:45 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:56:46 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:02:36 -!- rszeno has joined. 12:04:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:11:12 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:14:07 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:15:18 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:24:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:26:23 hi lambdabot 12:26:23 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 12:32:32 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:32:48 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:32:48 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:33:07 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 12:35:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:35:48 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 12:39:08 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:49:06 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:53:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:53:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:53:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 12:53:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:53:32 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:54:08 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:01:52 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:07:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:11:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:22:47 -!- rszeno has left. 13:25:38 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:30:13 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:30:47 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:33:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:33:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:35:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:36:24 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:41:57 fun happenings in oracle v google; the jury found exactly 9 lines of code copied out of 15 million, Oracle look like they want damages for them anyway 13:42:10 could lead to a hilariously small verdict 13:43:39 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:45:45 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:50:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:51:36 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:58:17 -!- libaofeng has quit (Quit: 离开). 14:00:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:01:06 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:04:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:08:58 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:11:05 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:11:45 -!- itidus20 has joined. 14:13:55 -!- derdon has joined. 14:15:35 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:19:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:26:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:27:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:28:43 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:30:47 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:46:14 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:47:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:50:41 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:52:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:58:52 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:11:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:20:17 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:29:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:34:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:34:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:34:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:35:29 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:40:42 -!- rszeno has joined. 15:52:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:56:55 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:58:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fPlpZATsNDc clop clop 16:28:50 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:31:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ano_Engxo8 >:-) 16:31:16 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:13:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:13:28 hello 17:16:25 If you made up the laws of a country, would it be permitted to eat peanuts and walk backward while a concert is on? 17:16:36 yes 17:16:59 Good, because I do not see any reason to prohibit it. 17:17:17 that the depends who's eating those peanuts and walking 17:17:25 s/depends/ 17:17:32 uh 17:17:36 just remove the the 17:17:43 suppose he was a criminal 17:17:49 then I would not allow that 17:18:17 I mean in general. 17:25:41 Do you think video games are a "higher" pleasure than push-pin? 17:25:50 -!- nortti has joined. 17:26:55 push-pin? 17:27:54 zzo38: I have arrived at the conclusion that video games. 17:28:05 hi 17:28:05 nortti: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 17:28:17 @messages 17:28:17 pikhq said 10h 42m 7s ago: No, but it has busybox awk! 17:28:17 pikhq said 10h 41m 37s ago: BTW, sh4rm4's sabotage is at https://github.com/rofl0r/sabotage 17:28:35 Quoting from this book: "Push-pin is a child's game in which each player pushes or flips his pin with the object of crossing the pin of another player. In Bentham's time, it was a metaphor for a meaningless and trivial activity." 17:29:08 pikhq: sh4rm4 said gawk is required to build sabotage 17:29:48 whats a pin? is it like a safety pin? a small nail? a button? 17:30:02 I don't know. I am only quoting what the book says. 17:30:06 lol! 17:30:15 PIN, personal identification number 17:30:38 stack.push(flip(PIN)) 17:31:03 From the description I would guess it is simply a meaningless game where the pins will inevitably cross each other 17:31:41 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:32:23 or perhaps that nothing is achieved if they don't. lol 17:34:35 pikhq_: sh4rm4 said gnu awk is neded for building sabotage so busybox awk doesn't really help 17:35:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:36:52 wiki says "The game is played by two or more players who each set one pin (needle) on a table." 17:37:33 Impressive, considering stage 0 doesn't have gawk. Or, indeed, much beyond bootstrap linux. 17:39:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:26 pikhq_: thats strange. I'll have to try building sabotage on bootstraplinux sometime 17:42:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:45:28 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:02:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:07:54 -!- calamari has joined. 18:08:05 -!- calamari has left. 18:11:25 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:14:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:14:34 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:16:57 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:17:18 Hello 18:28:10 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:28:35 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:28:39 -!- monqy has joined. 18:28:45 Hello 18:28:59 Finnish people: should I entertain studying in Finland as an option? 18:30:36 No, but you should study entertaining in Finland as an option. 18:32:12 Ngevd: maybe 18:32:27 For maths? 18:32:48 Ngevd: no 18:36:40 you're gonna study math? 18:36:48 Most likely 18:36:49 Ngevd: Finland is just dark, cold and boring, no fun at all... I know because I have never been there 18:36:50 ooh 18:37:01 come to turku, we can be research buddies 18:38:37 Does Turku do a maths course in English 18:39:20 that might actually be a bit of a problem, we have some professors who prefer finnish because english hadn't been invented when they started 18:39:39 so there's like two courses in english usually 18:39:48 the best ones though 18:43:22 yeah just a couple of good ones running 18:44:22 * Gregor is kind of boggled by the notion of a university that teaches non-language courses in various languages ... 18:44:58 * Ngevd technically lives in Europe 18:45:39 yeah some people prefer english, some prefer finnish in the math dep, it's annoying. the it dep uses just english, but computer science sucks so who cares. 18:45:55 although the fuck would you know, american. 18:46:08 Gregor: stuff like that happens in places where people know more than one language 18:46:59 often language changes to finnish if there are no foreigners present :D 18:47:00 olsner: I suppose that's understandable, except that essentially it makes an implicit requirement of being /fluent/ in multiple languages ... if you were, say, a Russian looking to study in Finland, you'd have to learn two languages instead of one ... 18:47:14 but the stuff on the board is still in english in case someone comes 18:47:41 Gregor, English is an international lingua frana 18:47:45 Gregor: I think mostly you'd have to already know english, because lol finnish 18:47:52 We have a "policy decision" nowadays that many pre-Bachelor's-degree courses are done in Finnish, while all post-Bachelor's are in English. 18:47:52 Gregor: if a finn isn't fluent in english, they should not be in a university 18:48:40 fizzie: same one here in the it dep 18:48:45 do you have it everywhere? 18:49:14 some of the professors are so old they just know german and french 18:49:41 I don't really know, I remember it being discussed but I don't recall whether it was a department-, school- or university-level occasion. 18:49:57 Ngevd: how you live technically in Europe? 18:50:29 nortti, by the virtue of geography 18:50:39 Unless you are questioning the "technically"? 18:50:44 he is 18:50:45 Europe, technically a good place to live 18:50:58 UK's special 18:51:00 technically living? why not do it in Europe! 18:51:06 Or pretends it is 18:51:13 it's not 18:51:22 or maybe "why not technically live in Europe!" 18:51:44 Ngevd: what continent does it pretend to be on? 18:52:23 oklopol, it's honest about geography, but we sort of have a "We're better than those silly Europeans" attitude ingrained 18:52:36 ooh, I know this: the UK is in the continent of England, right? 18:52:53 olsner, I dunno, ask Phantom_Hoover 18:53:16 hmm, I don't trust his knowledge of these things 18:53:39 See, this is why we suck at Eurovision 18:53:59 Ngevd: people say stuff like "spending summer in europe" here 18:54:34 which i find confusing 18:54:56 do some people think that ed is obsolete? 18:55:04 the drink? 18:55:07 The horse? 18:55:11 the guy? 18:55:17 editor 18:55:20 oh. 18:55:24 who cares about that 18:55:28 is that a technically-not-lying way to pretend to have the fortune to spend summer outside finland? 18:56:06 oklopol: I use it and I don't think it is obsolete 18:56:21 the drink? 18:56:34 Ngevd: your cue. 18:56:38 the horse 18:56:39 ? 18:56:42 the guy? 18:56:52 nortti: i use wordpad and latex 18:57:09 i've used ed for a few seconds and it was annoying 18:57:23 oklopol: how does one navigate the University of Turku websitE? 18:57:29 oklopol: what do you mean? 19:00:37 nortti: it was long ago, i don't remember 19:01:03 the drink, your cue, the horse, the guy? o.O 19:01:06 Ngevd: press in english and realize it's 5% of the content... 19:01:11 okay god we suck :D 19:01:26 http://www.sci.utu.fi/tdk/en/education/sguide/guide11-12/Mathematics.pdf 19:01:28 may be useful 19:01:58 nortti: presumably i just couldn't do much with it without knowing how it works 19:02:39 you can always use google translate!!!1 19:03:39 oklopol: It isn't that hard to know how it works. Read man ed 19:04:00 *learn 19:04:18 Ngevd: that was through "in english" and pressing "study guide". 19:04:39 i suppose that's all the courses we have in english right now, which is pretty depressing. 19:05:26 :/ 19:06:13 now that i think about it, i wonder if it's even possible to do your undergraduate studies here, since just about everywhere, the undergraduate courses are in finnish 19:06:26 Okay 19:06:34 I'll ask again in about 5 years, thanks! 19:06:51 learn finnish ! 19:07:06 Isn't that one of the hardest languages to learn? 19:07:14 And I've got, like, 2 weeks to learn Latin 19:07:30 Ngevd: spelling no, grammar yes 19:07:35 'man' is not recognized as an internal or external command, 19:07:35 operable program or batch file. 19:07:39 2 weeks? for all Latin grammar? 19:07:44 that can't be possible :o 19:07:56 I know most of it, I'm just being hard on myself 19:08:09 oklopol: use linux/cygwin 19:08:13 Well, most I need for the exam 19:08:29 oh and, the vocabulary; they have so much words! 19:08:42 nortti: i have yet to find an "install linux" button anywhere 19:08:44 All the words! 19:08:48 are you allowed to use a dictionary? 19:08:51 Nah 19:09:04 It's a one-and-a-half hour exam 19:09:10 Well then you can only hope it's not poetry 19:09:22 Prose 19:09:25 oklopol: then install cygwin 19:09:29 because they have a separate vocabulary for that 19:09:34 ah, prose is fine 19:09:41 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:09:42 nortti: what can ed do? 19:09:50 although if you get Tacitus 19:09:52 :o 19:09:57 that say wordpad can't 19:10:01 oklopol: edit text files 19:10:08 Tacitus is really hard(sentences stretch over pages) 19:10:48 oklopol: it has regexps on search/search and replace 19:11:07 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:11:14 It's adapted prose 19:11:18 okay, that is indeed useful every few years 19:11:37 And Cicero's pretty nasty 19:11:45 some basic syntax highlighting is useful, so i use texniccenter when writing articles 19:11:59 -!- elliott has joined. 19:12:03 nortti, so does Notepad++ 19:12:05 Ngevd: a bachelor's degree doesn't take 5 years 19:12:11 @karma notepad 19:12:11 notepad has a karma of 10 19:12:26 oklopol, it does if you still have a year left of high school 19:12:27 also you can select area to find perform search and replace in (for example .,$s/regexp/string/g) 19:12:35 elliott, hello! 19:12:42 Ngevd: skip that shit 19:13:55 oklopol, that may be counter productive 19:13:58 nortti: that's really not useful very often, at least i don't recall ever missing that feature, perhaps it would be more useful if i was used to it. 19:14:28 nortti: also i almost never write code, and when i do, it's usually in an ide. 19:14:50 Ngevd: high school is a waste of time, just go straight to a university. 19:14:52 `welcome elliott 19:14:54 Failed to clone the environment! 19:14:58 ... 19:15:00 :D 19:15:07 :D 19:15:23 oklopol: also it doesn't take very much space (under 7kB on my system) and it can be used over very slow links 19:15:25 Gregor: IF ONLY IT USED TRANSACTIONAL HACKEGO 19:15:47 I love reasons for using software that boil down to "so I can simulate living in the 80s". 19:15:59 Ngevd: wait for Tacitus :p 19:16:19 nortti: i have a couple of terabytes to spare, i'm not sure that's a very useful feature either :D 19:16:41 elliott: Actually the version of ed I use is from 75 19:16:48 *'75 19:16:59 i rarely encounter slow links 19:17:04 -!- elliott has left ("Bouncer client error"). 19:17:07 and i rarely use computers remotely 19:17:40 occasionally i do, but both connections are 100 Mb/s 19:17:55 oklopol: well then you are probably better of wirh sonething else 19:18:30 i certainly am the better of wirh soneting else. 19:18:52 also learning new things is annoying if it has to do with computers 19:19:13 Is that a fourteen line poem written by an electric screwdriver? 19:19:56 is what a fourteen line poem written by an electric screwdriver? 19:20:25 The result of wirh soneting 19:20:55 does wirh mean something? 19:21:19 Sounds like "whir" 19:21:20 well i'm happy with it meaning an electric screwdriver 19:21:29 i think you're pronouncing it wrong 19:22:00 I often transpose s's in four letter words begining with w 19:22:08 s/s's/h's/ 19:22:52 As in, "whoa"/"woah" 19:23:11 www.vjn.fi/ku/wirh.wma 19:23:56 "yalph"!? 19:24:03 Goodbye, elliott! 19:24:51 that's not what i said 19:25:12 I'm in a noisy room, it's hard to hear 19:25:26 www.vjn.fi/ku/yalph.wma 19:25:54 there must be something wrong with your ears 19:26:46 I almost went deaf when I was 7 19:27:26 how did you do that? 19:27:50 Inner ears didn't grow properly 19:28:03 :D 19:28:06 you are full of surprises 19:28:18 I am an ENDLESS BARREL OF SURPRISES 19:29:10 can i have another+ 19:29:11 _ 19:29:13 * 19:29:15 dsfkljasdkfjlasdjf 19:29:22 No 19:29:26 `quote 19:29:27 why does the language of my keyboard keep changing? :D 19:29:29 `quote 19:29:31 `quote 19:29:32 `quote 19:29:33 `quote 19:29:35 `quote 19:29:37 `quote 19:29:42 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:42 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:42 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:42 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:43 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:43 Failed to clone the environment! 19:29:45 419) Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are Damn right! 19:29:48 :----------------------------------------D 19:29:49 I am currently effing with the system, please stop X_X 19:29:57 :D 19:30:07 Gregor: did you make a booboo? 19:30:17 No, the HD is just full again. 19:30:21 We should play Mafia 19:30:22 I have no idea how I fill it so damned easily X_X 19:30:24 Esoteric Mafia 19:30:25 >.> 19:30:44 Gregor: how large is your HD? 19:30:55 20G 19:30:59 :D 19:31:05 where did you get that 19:31:09 Sgeo, I'm awful at Mafia 19:31:27 i didn't know it was physically possible to have so little bits on a hd 19:31:29 Gregor: how can you fill that? 19:31:34 oklopol: This is a VPS. 19:32:10 it's still very little 19:32:16 `echo Pip pip cheerio, I'm from the land of five pigs and hence speak with a Cockney accent in pithy phrases because Americans don't understand geography. 19:32:20 Pip pip cheerio, I'm from the land of five pigs and hence speak with a Cockney accent in pithy phrases because Americans don't understand geography. 19:32:26 Whoops, it's the land of six pigs. 19:32:30 `echo Pip pip cheerio, I'm from the land of six pigs and hence speak with a Cockney accent in pithy phrases because Americans don't understand geography. 19:32:33 Pip pip cheerio, I'm from the land of six pigs and hence speak with a Cockney accent in pithy phrases because Americans don't understand geography. 19:32:53 hi 19:33:03 nortti: i can fill a 20G drive in an hour 19:33:46 well i'm capable of doing it faster, but i mean that's a pretty normal speed 19:34:02 oklopol: what? I couldn't fill 6GB drive in a year 19:34:23 i downloaded 7Gb a few days ago 19:34:39 nortti, you're actually in 1975 19:34:45 I have a 3TB drive, it's about 1/3 full after a half a year or so. 19:35:21 Ngevd: IRC wasn't invented back then 19:35:22 Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP 19:35:29 stop pirating all the things 19:35:45 no 19:35:52 Lumpio-: Hasbro really lost a lot of money on oklopol here. 19:35:56 Gregor: that is just insane 19:36:08 Gregor: I was talking to you 19:36:24 Oh, because my disk is 1/3 full. Hmmm, what's on there ... 19:36:26 Or is your 3TB HDD full of "linux distros" 19:36:34 nortti: a season of a show takes about 10GB 19:36:41 The only videos I have on there are MLP, I don't think that's going to be 1TB. 19:36:47 and there's usually 10 seasons before it's worth watching 19:36:59 I have a youtube/ directory because I prefer to watch youtube by downloading and playing later, that's probably largish. 19:37:03 -!- elliott has joined. 19:37:14 My music directory tends to be bloated with pointless intermediary files. 19:37:24 Idonno, I haven't actually checked where the space has gone *shrugs* 19:37:29 I have about 1TB of video currently I guess 19:37:36 Another TB of backups (because I'm lazy and take full disk images of laptops) 19:37:58 My drives are universally either almost empty or almost full. 19:38:06 I never seem to go through an intermediate stage. 19:38:06 Gregor: i have 1.21TB used after a bit over half a year 19:38:22 Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP // why did we not continue this conversation 19:38:29 oklopol: So, you watched exactly enough to be at a cliffhanger? 19:38:31 granted, i occasionally just make a copy of everything just to see diskspace get smaller. 19:38:34 Gregor: I also have youtube/ and music/ but I still haven't filled more than 10% of my 30GB disk 19:38:37 Gregor: eah 19:38:38 yeah 19:38:47 trying to find the strength to continue 19:38:51 lol 19:39:38 I have some 250GB of music 19:39:41 Oh and dropbox/ 19:40:02 ...mostly because I downloaded the touhou collection (MP3 version, I'm not insane enough to download over a terabyte of FLACs) 19:40:07 oklopol: Incidentally, the first two episodes, while awesome, are thematically quite different from the series at large. 19:40:15 hello monqy 19:40:26 woo 19:40:40 the guy who writes smbc commented on my comment on his recent comic 19:40:41 Lumpio-: Pfffft, lossy music. 19:40:45 You BARBARIAN. 19:40:58 * Lumpio- yawns 19:41:00 Audiophiles ┐(￣ー￣)┌ 19:41:02 elliott has all the Touhou on vinyl 19:41:06 Lumpio-: No, this is purely a superiority thing. 19:41:28 MP3 with a recent encoder at any reasonable setting is going to be transparent on all reasonable hardware and ears. 19:41:31 I just like feeling smug. 19:41:32 the guy who writes smbc commented on my comment on his recent comic // I think this makes you a celebrity! 19:41:39 :D 19:41:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/tcjqt/glottal_stop_saturday_morning_breakfast_cereal/c4lg013 19:41:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:41:54 Gregor: Man, I gotta be a celebrity ten times over then!!! 19:42:07 elliott: It doesn't count for people from the land of six pigs. 19:42:15 Did you know Tim Berners-Lee is on freenode? He types really badly. 19:42:31 (Speaking of "BARELY celebrities" HAW HAW HAW) 19:42:36 elliott: lol 19:42:41 well hes too busy inventing the web 19:42:41 so 19:42:42 (Uh, there's no pun on "barely" there.) 19:42:45 Gregor: it wasn't bad, but there was very little sex and violence 19:42:58 oklopol: X-D 19:43:00 oklopol! :D 19:43:03 I use ogg vorbis for all of my music 19:43:19 * augur sexes and violences oklopol 19:43:24 oh dear 19:43:30 oklopol: Not gonna find much violence I'm afraid. You have to sort of read too much into it for the sex, but it's there. Applejack and Rainbow Dash are definitely banging on the side. 19:43:35 `addquote Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP [...] Gregor: it wasn't bad, but there was very little sex and violence 19:43:38 854) Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP [...] Gregor: it wasn't bad, but there was very little sex and violence 19:45:17 Gregor: i liked how the main character is actually not annoying 19:45:52 Ooh, this reminds me 19:46:12 I need to buy one of my friends a MLP vest (British sense of the word) 19:47:07 clop clop 19:48:02 new private tab, goto /r/clop 19:48:16 * Gregor >_> <_< 19:48:53 (This is for ironic climbing purposes) 19:49:22 "But it's so ... steep." "Well it /is/ a cliff. You could just, oh, I don't know, /fly/!" 19:52:09 Hello!!!!!!!!!!!! Believe a dog 19:52:22 hi 19:52:40 monqy: Are you believing ? 19:52:44 yes 19:52:50 p.s. what's a dog 19:52:52 Its' all good now. 19:53:06 monqy: A small mammal , kind of lik ea kangeroo ; looks like a cat with the tail of a rabbit . 19:53:49 monqy : If you die please report the incident to Dog Council , thanks. 19:55:06 monqy: dO YOU FEEL AXIOM 19:55:42 oklopol: i think monqy feel axiom 19:56:02 Gregor: please tell monqy if he feel axiom 19:56:04 bye 19:56:06 -!- elliott has left ("duck"). 19:56:26 Gregor: what's axiom 19:56:30 monqy: close your eyes, count to three, feel axiom 19:56:38 wow it really works 19:56:49 @ask elliott i feel axiome 19:56:49 Consider it noted. 19:57:14 @ask elliott Does monqy know how to @ask vs @tell? 19:57:14 Consider it noted. 19:57:19 @tell elliott No, no he does not. 19:57:19 Consider it noted. 19:57:23 @ask elliott Do I? 19:57:24 Consider it noted. 19:57:27 @ask elliott No, no I do not. 19:57:28 Consider it noted. 19:58:01 @tell elliott what's @ask vs @tell? 19:58:01 Consider it noted. 19:58:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:58:17 don't @ask, don't @tell 19:58:19 Hello ais523 19:58:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 19:58:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:58:27 `welcome ais523 19:58:30 ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:58:35 boring, it works now 19:58:53 -!- elliott has joined. 19:59:09 @messages 19:59:09 monqy asked 2m 20s ago: i feel axiome 19:59:09 Gregor asked 1m 55s ago: Does monqy know how to @ask vs @tell? 19:59:09 Gregor said 1m 50s ago: No, no he does not. 19:59:09 Gregor asked 1m 45s ago: Do I? 19:59:09 Gregor asked 1m 41s ago: No, no I do not. 19:59:11 monqy said 1m 8s ago: what's @ask vs @tell? 19:59:23 That,s a bit weird' don,t you think? 19:59:26 hi elliott 19:59:28 Hello ais523 . 19:59:41 elliott: `welcome works now, do you want to be welcomed? 19:59:42 @ask Sgeo Blah blah blah. 19:59:42 You can tell yourself! 19:59:54 @ask Sgeo Blo Gno Mic? 19:59:54 You can tell yourself! 20:01:05 @tell Sgeo apparently I can't, because you won't let me. 20:01:05 You can tell yourself! 20:01:15 olsner: no 20:01:16 (yes) 20:01:17 @tell yourself ok. 20:01:17 Consider it noted. 20:01:20 (secretly) 20:01:21 (in my heart) 20:01:23 -!- elliott has changed nick to yourself. 20:01:25 @messages? 20:01:25 yourself: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:01:28 @messages 20:01:28 Sgeo said 11s ago: ok. 20:01:31 -!- yourself has changed nick to elliott. 20:02:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:03:10 `@ elliott ? esoteric 20:03:13 elliott: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 20:03:26 I've been in the wrong place all these years?! 20:03:47 yes, secretly, in your heart 20:11:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Duplo 20:11:51 I always thought that that was mostly what was meant by Lego 20:11:51 hi olsner 20:12:17 (Of course, I saw exceptions online, e.g. with The Brick Testament) 20:12:50 Oh, there are only hardness and size differences? Oops 20:12:58 olsner do you know of a language which has blocks defined by indent (kinda sorta like python), and where you can define new keywords, which then completely define the syntax in the following block? 20:13:28 cheater, Nimrod has macros, but I don't know if they're as powerful as you want 20:13:44 You could start out in Forth and do things to your whim. 20:13:45 i want complete control 20:13:52 Forth is complete control 20:14:00 is complete control forth? 20:14:21 Lisp (at least Common Lisp) is also complete control. 20:14:23 ALSO: would be nice if the language were just haskell :( 20:14:53 Well, hmm, no, Lisp is less control I think. 20:15:01 Although not really less control of syntax 20:15:15 More like less control of the ... runtime? Although I may be wrong 20:15:27 i just want total control of the syntax, i guess 20:15:46 Forth. Common Lisp, depending on what you mean by syntax. 20:16:03 Factor I think 20:16:26 like, i want the file to be parsed top to bottom, and then when the main parser sees a keyword that defines new syntax, control is completely given to a new parser defined for that keyword 20:17:08 so if the outer language is E, then it has a keyword named runf which runs code in F, and then F could have a keyword called rung, which runs language G 20:17:21 and F could also have rune which would run E 20:17:52 so, the syntax changes only based on the context 20:18:06 that would be cool to write in i bet 20:18:36 you could have e.g. a language which is like haskell's IO, then have another language which is just list comprehensions 20:18:57 i think it would be very nice. 20:20:52 cheater, ... Forth's parser is, in some Forths, defined in Forth 20:21:22 An example implemention of Forth showed comments being implemented.... in Forth. The Forth that it's implementing. 20:21:31 After that point, comments work. Before that point, they don't. 20:21:48 Goodnight 20:21:50 that is really cool 20:21:51 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 20:21:53 i should check out forth 20:22:05 maybe one day we'll have forthskell 20:22:10 The example I was thinking of is Jonesforth 20:22:16 cheater, they're practically opposites. 20:22:23 yeah i realize! 20:23:31 http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.S;h=45e6e854a5d2a4c3f26af264dfce56379d401425;hb=HEAD then http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.f;h=5c1309574ae1165195a43250c19c822ab8681671;hb=HEAD 20:23:39 The first is assembly, the second is Forth 20:23:41 cheater: I recommend learning forth. It is very instersting and unique 20:24:15 yeah you guys got me hooked 20:24:41 It was mostly me 20:27:37 yeah nortti did a nice sidekicking support there but the prize goes to Sgeo 20:27:44 thanks Sgeo you make this channel so much cooler 20:32:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:33:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 20:33:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:34:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:34:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:35:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 20:35:08 hi 20:35:14 bye 20:35:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:38:05 bye 20:38:08 i mean 20:38:08 hi 20:46:44 elliott: trying to sort out some DNS issues 20:47:08 hmm, you don't normally use virginmedia on weekdays, do you? 20:47:12 virgin media's DNS didn't even have the number for Google, although it seemed to be missing not all of the websites, about half 20:47:21 and I use it when not at work 20:47:29 you're ever not at work? :) 20:48:51 I'm usually not at work :) 20:49:01 especially during exam season 20:49:16 now, more confusing, eternal-september wasn't in level3's DNS either, but was in Google's 20:49:29 so I'm on Google's DNS for the time being, and wondering what's up with the DNSes at the moment 20:50:13 elliott: could you run "dig @4.2.2.1 news.eternal-september.org" and "dig @8.8.8.8 news.eternal-september.org" to confirm I'm not going crazy? 20:50:28 no result for former 20:50:29 result for latter 20:50:38 maybe Verizon are sick of non-customers using their DNS 20:50:49 elliott: same result here 20:51:21 although, 4.2.2.1 isn't missing every internetsite, it's just missing eternal-september out of the ones I'm trying 20:51:34 "internetsite"? seriously? 20:51:49 elliott: I almost said "website", but news.eternal-september.org /isn't/ a website 20:51:52 so I wasn't sure what to call it 20:52:12 well, "domain" is the relevant thing here 20:52:14 but at least "internet site" 20:52:38 right, "domain" 20:53:17 Gregor: I still can't believe freshmeat renamed. 20:53:22 What's WITH that??? 20:53:36 ais523: hmm, OpenOffice became an Apache project? 20:53:53 why would Apache want to compete with LibreOffice? 20:54:17 they wouldn't, it's just that they're who Oracle donated it to 20:54:27 I'm not convinced they're even trying to maintain it 20:54:27 are they going to merge it, then? 20:54:38 well, there's a new release, with new features 20:54:45 ah 20:54:55 and a stupid slashdot comment to match 20:56:33 monqy: your axiom is dying 20:57:04 elliott: what axiom 20:57:12 you're 20:58:57 21:58 it sounded pretty absurd 20:59:06 monqy: ##crawl hasn't seen what i've seen :'( 20:59:10 *:') 21:01:15 what axiom? 21:01:36 ais523: you're 21:01:48 ais523: you missed a squarelos game btw 21:01:51 ah, OK 21:01:57 and a squarelos game of what? 21:02:03 crawl 21:02:17 I was just demonstrating option randomisation 21:02:29 you were also demonstrating dying in the usual manner!!! 21:02:34 yes 21:02:34 its a full experience 21:02:42 "option randomisation"? 21:02:44 oh dear 21:02:50 monqy: ok you have to go again 21:02:55 ais523 is 21:02:59 "sufering" 21:03:07 "the squarelos duty" 21:03:11 oh i have to play aghain? 21:03:14 yes 21:03:15 ais523: it's on cdo 21:04:14 Viewers: 1 :'( 21:04:19 is that you 21:04:21 yes 21:04:51 ais523: hi 21:05:08 elliott: but now I've discovered Brogue, I have no reason to play or even watch Crawl 21:05:16 ais523: squarelos is not "Crawl" 21:05:16 I reached dlvl 15 in Brogue today, btw 21:05:23 squarelos is just squarelos 21:05:28 wait, monqy 21:05:31 your language randomisation broke? 21:05:34 no 21:05:39 using a staff character based around firebolt and conjuration 21:05:40 what's up with 21:05:44 ais523: congrats 21:05:46 monqy: the screen then 21:06:00 I mostly died because I didn't get enough ID to identify the firebolt staff, so it ran out of charges at a bad time 21:06:05 ais523: btw, squarelos games are about 10x faster than Crawl usually is, so you won't get bored :P 21:06:39 elliott: language just doesn't get set until after those messages print 21:06:45 monqy: ah 21:07:44 ais523: are you not going to watch :'( (we'ere waiting for you) 21:08:05 elliott: I'm not interested in Crawl, and I'm less interested in Crawl modded to be stupider than usual 21:08:13 ais523: this isn't modded crawl! 21:08:14 this is stock crwal 21:08:18 *crawl 21:08:20 this isn't monqys-crawl 21:08:24 it's with an option file designed to make it stupid 21:08:32 monqy: im offended 21:08:37 elliott: im offended 21:08:45 ais523: you dont even know what squarelos is like!!! 21:08:56 yo'ure judgineg 21:08:57 im dishaertnd 21:08:59 "not playeing" 21:09:12 ais523: you just made monqy quit his game!!!!!!! 21:09:15 everything is ruinede 21:09:57 -!- ais523 has left (" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api"). 21:10:07 everything > 21:10:09 21:10:15 there is no regular text any more 21:11:34 21:11:35 You sure? 21:11:42 no it cant be utnred off 21:11:46 thats just the word > 21:13:31 wow, why is pain so good 21:13:32 why indeed 21:13:49 monqy: is it secret that ive played monqys-crawl 21:14:01 elliott: do you want it to be 21:14:05 not really 21:14:11 ok you can spoil it 21:14:14 and talk about 21:14:17 "the experience" 21:14:18 i don't have anything 21:14:20 to spoil it with really 21:14:25 words 21:14:31 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:14:54 ive spoiled with words and punctuation 21:15:03 wow, punktuation 21:20:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:22:11 monqy: am i the second person to play monqys-crawl (am i special) 21:22:20 also http://www.brandcrowd.com/logo-design/details/22830 21:22:34 It's time for Times New Roman to show its wild side. 21:22:35 you are the second person 21:22:53 special :') 21:23:04 monqy: i had an idea 21:23:05 wrt 21:23:09 going downstairs not being very fun 21:23:20 what do you mean not being very fun1! 21:23:22 you could make downstairs always lead to somewhere with your back to the wall 21:23:31 monqy: it's kind of repetitive getting crowded all the time!!! 21:23:47 monster spawn changes will fix that!! 21:24:16 monqy: nooo you'll ruin it 21:24:26 what fun would monqys-crawl be if it was just like a 24x24 section of a regular crawl level 21:24:40 ok i guess they could spawn in waves rather than all at once 21:24:43 what 21:24:43 or something 21:24:49 i didn't say what changes i was making 21:24:54 well 21:24:58 i assumed they involved decreasing the spawns 21:25:13 they'd decrease the crap spawns, and increase difficult spawns if necessary 21:25:29 probably some ood rate increases 21:25:31 that'll make getting surrounded be worse!!! 21:25:37 btw what are you going to do to zot if you have 21:25:37 plans 21:25:43 but there will be fewer crap spawns so you won't be as surrounded!! 21:25:46 no plans 21:25:59 probably make an encompass vault for each level or something 21:25:59 you should make there be 27 levels of zot that would be gr8 21:26:03 gr8 21:26:07 27 levels for each branche 21:26:18 yes 21:26:37 27 orbs of zot 21:26:58 monqy: problem with surround vault: 21:27:03 no place for monqys to get in the way 21:27:05 *no space 21:27:11 what 21:27:18 encompass vault is a technical term 21:27:18 you know 21:27:21 monqys 21:27:22 oh encompass 21:27:23 i thought you said 21:27:24 for a vault that takes up the whole level 21:27:26 surround 21:27:31 sorry i 21:27:33 actually completely misread your line 21:27:35 oops :'( 21:27:36 oops 21:30:03 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:31:35 monqy: btw 21:31:37 maybe it's worth 21:31:50 upping the max size of a level, just so that the average level isn't so tiny 21:31:57 a bunch of them don't reach 24x24 21:32:36 i think it's fine as-is 21:32:42 24x24 is pretty big 21:32:55 so smaller is fine 21:33:26 you have weird level size opinions!!! 21:34:52 monqy: i wish crawl just like 21:34:57 smushed levels when they got too big rather than crashing 21:35:06 so you could go down to e.g. Orc:4 and it'd be complete chaos 21:37:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:39:49 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:40:13 "The most important work is the 21:40:13 category-extras package, which provides a very rich library indeed, including the famous zygohistoprepromorphism." 21:40:25 dons, you wrote that 7 hours ago, there's no way you can't have noticed it's a big page saying it's obsolete! 21:40:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:18 he also 21:41:27 pasted in the dependency graph for the split-up category extras 21:41:36 alongside other graphs from other packages that were typeclass graphs instead 21:41:48 i think dons writes SO answers like monqy plays crawl 21:42:44 -!- augur has joined. 21:44:05 monqy: efreets are like ferrets right 21:44:10 yes 21:44:16 thought so 21:45:44 -!- rszeno has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:46:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:23 "This seems to be getting on peoples nerves, but I honestly don't understand why, because no one is laying it straight for me. Is this what being married feels like?" ~~~~~~ drb226 21:50:41 "Really hurt your butterflies?" d'awww 21:50:56 wgat;s tghis 21:51:06 monqy: footv 21:51:09 crawl said that 21:51:19 esplat? 21:51:26 22:49 !lg * cv~~0.1. dam=1 xl=27 ktyp=acid -tv 21:51:26 22:49 1. Nevar, XL27 NaFi, T:113031 requested for FooTV. 21:51:33 ah, not esplat 21:51:35 i dont' even know wha tthe differences betwene hte splats are :'( 21:51:54 tsplat esplat what's the difference "i sure as heck don't know" 21:52:08 csplat is the old crawl version of splat tv that used to run on termcast but not anymore 21:52:30 tsplat is when you use the sequell command in the {tsplat} learndb entry 21:52:35 i know that 21:52:36 but 21:52:36 esplat is when you use the sequell command in the {esplat} learndb entry 21:52:40 what's the differecen ebteween the two commands!!!! 21:53:03 tsplat is 0.10+ tiles nonconstriction splats, esplat is 0.10+ nonhugeterm nonconstriction splats 21:53:13 with the additional constraints that: 21:53:22 * they've never been watched on footv before (ntv=0) 21:53:26 * I forget the other constraint 21:53:27 *drat 21:53:36 esplat mentions tiles to 21:53:38 *too 21:53:40 * oh right it picks the game with max xl 21:53:48 * tiles guarantees nonhugeterm 21:53:55 ok but 21:53:57 it actually has tiles 21:53:59 in the expression 21:54:01 yes 21:54:04 22:54 esplat[1/1]: !lg * ((tiles || !@hugeterm)) cv~~0.1. ntv=0 ktyp!=quitting|leaving|winning killer!=tentacled monstrosity|greater naga|naga warrior max=xl -tv 21:54:04 it's disjuncted with 21:54:08 !@hugeterm 21:54:13 isn't that redundant 21:54:15 no 21:54:23 !@hugeterm looks at a !nick mapping 21:54:25 but "tiles guaranteed nonhugeterm" -- monqy, 2012 21:54:25 oh 21:54:27 ok 21:54:34 but 21:54:38 which is only a partial list that ##crawl maintains when it finds awful hugeterms 21:54:40 are any tiles players in !@hugeterm 21:54:46 erm 21:54:46 idk 21:54:48 in @hugeterm 21:54:50 idk 21:54:51 would seem kinda weird!!! 21:54:59 monqy: i saw someone using 80x25 get added to hugeterm the other day 21:55:03 felt like injustice !!! 21:55:15 80x25 screws up the display a bit but not too much usually 21:55:20 screws it up more if they use small_more 21:55:27 I like small_more but I use 80x24 21:55:43 i cant really hate on 80x25 because it's traditional too what with dos and all 21:56:34 added to hugeterm? 21:56:34 i don't hate on terminal sizes for the sake of them being big, i hate on them since it makes games unpleasant to watch and they mess up tv 21:56:38 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:56:44 80x25 isn't so bad to watch on cao cdo etc but 21:56:50 monqy, isn't that why everyone hates hugeterm? 21:56:55 Sgeo: yes 21:57:10 Sgeo: the bots have a list of hugeterm players 21:57:10 just clarifying that i'm not senseless bigbashing! 21:57:32 monqy: technically it doesn't make them unpleasant to watch if you use bigterm!!! 21:57:47 yes it does 21:57:51 using bigterm is unpleasant 21:57:56 takes up so much of my screen, man 21:57:58 22:56 i don't hate on terminal sizes for the sake of them being big, i hate on them since it makes games unpleasant to watch and they mess up tv 21:58:01 "a contradicte" 21:58:07 not a contradicte eliot 21:58:42 :'( 21:58:57 Would be cool if roguelikes somehow adjusted for the discrepency 21:58:59 monqy: ar eyou 21:59:01 CONTRADICTING me 21:59:04 ; ) 21:59:05 :> 21:59:11 Sgeo: what 21:59:33 monqy, instead of trying to push out exactly what's being displayed, recalculate it 21:59:41 (push out to watchers) 22:00:27 isn't that just called 22:00:33 "using a protocol other than tercmasting" 22:02:59 *tercmasting 22:03:13 monqy: what does cv~~0.1. do 22:04:09 cv is the class of version or condensed version or something like that. basically it's like 0.10 or 0.10-a or 0.11 or 0.11-a or something. the version number and then -a if it's prerelease 22:05:03 so complicated :( 22:05:15 apocalypserobin must have been great fun to be a part of 22:05:18 "great fun" 22:05:19 so that thing right htere is to restrict the version to things greater than 0.10-a 22:05:29 since sequell doesn't have proper version comparisons 22:05:35 just lexicographic string comparison 22:05:42 which got screwed up come 0.10-a 22:05:49 oops 22:05:55 er 22:05:59 greater than or equal to 0.10-a 22:06:36 i wonder how apocalypserobin handled hunger 22:06:41 oh vampire i guess "in some way i don't understand" 22:07:10 vampuires have speical hunger 22:07:24 i know, but don't you still need blotions of pood 22:07:27 *botions of plood 22:08:35 depends on what you mean by need 22:09:02 to not 22:09:03 die 22:10:54 strictly? no 22:10:57 vampires don't starve 22:11:11 they go bloodless, at which point they have full undead resists and don't regenerate naturally 22:11:37 that would explain why it could just spend a year in the temple then 22:14:05 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 22:16:33 @tell monqy How do I use @ask? 22:16:33 Consider it noted. 22:17:52 @messages 22:17:52 elliott said 1m 19s ago: How do I use @ask? 22:18:04 @ask Gregor Am I allowed to @ask myself? 22:18:04 You can tell yourself! 22:18:36 You can tell yourself, but can you ask yourself? 22:18:45 @tell lambdabot You can tell yourself, but can you ask yourself? 22:18:45 Nice try ;) 22:19:00 @tell that I said hi 22:19:00 Consider it noted. 22:19:03 o.O 22:19:18 Well, that's not leaving the message queue anytime soon 22:19:27 why not? 22:19:41 monqy, can you nick to ? 22:19:46 -!- elliott has changed nick to that. 22:19:49 @messages? 22:19:49 Sorry, no messages today. 22:19:54 -!- that has changed nick to elliott. 22:19:58 you broke it 22:20:01 I can't read that character sgeo 22:20:03 what is it 22:20:06 or that characters 22:20:10 It's whatever it is that happens with Ctrl-O 22:20:14 In XChat 22:20:25 23:20 @print-notices 22:20:25 23:20 fromList [("\SI",(Nothing,[Note {noteSender = "Sgeo", noteContents = "that I said hi", noteTime = (1336513878,173020000000), noteType = Tell}])),[…] 22:20:27 congrates Sgeo 22:20:50 \SI? 22:20:56 \SI. 22:21:05 Si, \SI. 22:21:09 how do you spell si 22:21:15 it has a fancy accent right 22:21:25 si without fancy accent is if 22:21:27 iirc 22:24:00 sí 22:24:29 thanskfs monqy you're the greatest 22:24:38 Does s mean yes or no? 22:24:46 Wait, oops 22:24:50 sometimes 22:24:55 it means both 22:24:56 Does s mean yes? 22:25:06 except when it means no 22:25:15 Dangit, you know what I was trying to set up 22:25:23 dangit 22:25:32 dan 22:25:35 git 22:26:46 monqy: hi 22:27:20 hello 22:27:34 :( 22:32:47 too much sadness. 22:34:14 ok monqy. ok 22:34:23 hi?? 22:34:29 ( it is acceptable ) 22:35:08 monqy: dont worry! 22:38:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:39:09 monqy: who invented ##crawl 22:39:14 was it aliens : / 22:39:49 chanserv says the founder's rax 22:40:01 " sounds like aliens to me " 22:40:05 i meant invent in a more fundamental sense but 22:50:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:38 -!- augur has joined. 22:55:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:55:45 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:01:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:04:39 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliottc. 23:22:53 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:25:17 -!- ion has joined. 23:43:41 -!- nvt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:44:17 -!- nvt has joined. 23:44:38 monqy: how much better is minor destruction than a dart anyway 23:44:45 it never seems to do much (not that darts do either) 23:44:57 are you training invo? I forget. 23:45:07 ive just started "not even worshipping makhleb yet" 23:45:12 oh 23:45:44 a big plus of minor destruction over darts: you dont have to lug darts around or pick them up or otherwise manage them 23:46:00 i use them rarely so 23:46:06 the losing hp thing is kind of annoying since 23:46:11 the prime use for them is annoying stuff that takes off lots of hp 23:46:16 erm 23:46:17 them as in 23:46:18 ranged stuff 23:46:19 for me 23:46:48 almost tried to go upstairs before going downstairs there to avoid a segfault 23:47:42 the hp loss from minor destruction is negligible 23:48:03 and it's mostly useful for finishing of fleeing things 23:48:28 gnoooooooooooolle 23:51:45 00:51 guardian spirit[1/1]: While wearing this amulet, damage you take is divided proportionately between MP and HP. Reduces magic to 0 on wearing. Note that a Deep Dwarf wearing this does not regain mana naturally. 23:51:48 well that's useless 23:51:51 unless i u 23:51:56 *uh 23:51:56 get a ring of magic or something 23:53:26 how is it useless 23:53:38 i had 23:53:39 ~0 mp 23:53:41 invocations skill gives you mp but makhleb invocations don't use mp 23:53:50 oh does it 23:53:50 so it's like free hp 23:54:00 good thing i died before realising that! 23:54:01 assuming you don't have a better amulet 23:54:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:54:04 or other uses for mp 23:55:16 ugh i 23:55:20 forgot i can't potion of mutation 23:55:29 how annoying 23:58:56 uhhhh 23:59:03 am i seriously dying to a hobgoblin in front of sigmund 23:59:38 answer: no 23:59:49 -!- augur has joined. 2012-05-09: 00:03:28 01:01 5617. KiloByte the Grasshopper (L5 MuWr), slain by a giant newt on D:1 on 2010-01-20, with 265 points after 60641 turns and 0:15:00. 00:03:49 i feel like i'm missing something here 00:06:08 2010 00:06:17 were turns different thing 00:06:18 *then 00:06:23 or was kilobyte just 00:06:25 really fast htne 00:06:26 *then 00:06:47 might be a mummybot or from when there was this bug that screwed up realtime 00:07:00 maybe i'll tv it 00:08:01 monqy: anyway just fixing realtime doesn't explain it!!! 00:08:13 dying to a giant newt on D:1 after 60k turns is still impressive 00:08:54 could have been a killsteal 00:08:56 or suicide 00:09:31 now you're just giving me more options it could be !!! 00:09:34 anyway the log says 00:09:42 You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 1 of its levels. 00:09:43 so 00:09:59 (http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/KiloByte/morgue-KiloByte-20100120-231230.txt) 00:12:25 Why do you have a centaur attached to your nicke? 00:15:19 ok that log is bizarre 00:18:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:21:53 looks like it was a killsteal 00:36:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:37:49 I’m playing a MfBe and will probably die soon. 00:38:57 Thawl. A gnoll shaman on D:1. 00:39:14 monqy: what's that 00:39:27 01:39 I don't have a page labeled killsteal in my learndb. 00:39:28 it can't exist 00:39:36 oh 00:39:40 anyway im gone 00:39:59 i will 00:40:02 never know ........! 00:40:19 anyway its not the actual 00:40:19 a killsteal is when one thing does the real work of the killing and something else does the final blow, getting the credit 00:40:20 death 00:40:21 im concerned about 00:40:24 oh 00:40:28 anyway im gone 00:40:29 its the spending 60k turns on D:1 00:40:36 mummyscumming 00:40:36 anyway im gone 00:40:37 monqy: oh that? i thought that was too obvious 00:40:40 hi 00:40:41 monqy: are you gone 00:40:44 yes 00:40:56 monqy 00:40:59 are you gone 00:41:05 yes im still gone 00:41:17 monqy: I was under the impression Crawl distributes the experience based on how much work everyone did nowadays. 00:41:33 ion: im talking about monsters killing the player, not the player and his allies 00:41:36 ion: good day 00:41:38 ion: im gone 00:41:39 monqy 00:41:39 ah 00:41:41 i need to know 00:41:43 its important 00:41:44 bonqy 00:41:44 ... 00:41:45 are you gone 00:41:46 am I gone? 00:41:46 yes 00:41:48 ok 00:41:50 but 00:41:51 are you gone 00:42:03 i said i'm gone but actually i'm drinking this hot water 00:42:08 i'll be gone after i finish 00:42:18 drinking hot water is basically like being gone 00:42:22 why is the water hot 00:42:23 yes 00:42:27 enlighten us 00:42:29 because it's actually tea 00:42:31 good day / im gone 00:42:32 ah 00:42:36 why is the tea hot 00:42:43 did it ge tburned 00:42:51 room temperature tea is gross 00:43:13 imo tea should be drunk at 0 K 00:43:13 -!- augur has joined. 00:43:19 you never know what those atoms could do otherwise : / 00:44:20 Agreed. 00:45:22 i think monqy is gone 00:45:36 gonqy 01:02:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:31 ^rainbow wobniar^ 01:09:31 wobniar^ 01:09:42 Wobniar sounds like a Pokemon. 01:11:53 ion: Stop playing, I can't decide between watching you and coolrobin. 01:13:33 :-( 01:13:35 Watch both! 01:14:06 ion: That's impossible. 01:15:03 ion: You sure do like Trog. 01:18:29 He likes me, too. 01:19:06 ion: I'm going with coolrobin because you're hugeterm. 01:19:11 ok 01:29:45 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:32:16 -!- yorick has joined. 01:33:30 Hmm. Glaives chop hydra heads off, halberds don’t, right? 01:34:34 No, halberds do, too. 01:43:51 ion: So why did you use correctterm that one game? 01:43:59 Forgot to resize. 01:44:03 :( 01:44:07 You should have kept forgetting. 01:44:30 Honestly, you don't need that many lines of messages. 01:44:48 It’s not about the lines of messages, it’s about the size of the game map. 01:45:09 Right, so chop off a few lines of messages and you'll get something close in 80x24. 01:46:03 ion: You should abandon Trog for Xom. 01:46:08 Good idea. 01:46:11 You'd get good mutations. 01:46:27 Or die, but that's also an option you have now, so you're not losing anything. 01:46:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:51:35 ion: What are you doing still with Trog? 01:51:49 Exploring a labyrinth. 01:52:05 Ditch Trog once you're done with the labyrinth, okay? 01:52:19 I’ll put that into consideration. 01:54:15 ion: By "put that in consideration", you mean "okay", right? 01:54:22 Come on, you're a merfolk. How hard can it be to deal with Xom? 01:54:26 It's not like you're a mummy. 01:57:06 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:57:16 ion: C'mon. 01:57:19 Ctrl+F xom 01:58:05 Ctrl+F xom 01:58:20 What? 01:58:25 Ctrl+F temple 01:58:41 Ctrl+F temple 01:59:12 Ctrl 01:59:13 + 01:59:13 F 01:59:14 temple 01:59:23 No. 01:59:25 That's not how you spell temple. 01:59:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:00:13 ion: You're stupid and boring. 02:00:23 no u 02:01:22 ^rainbow CONVERT TO XOM IMMEDIATELY 02:01:22 CONVERT TO XOM IMMEDIATELY 02:02:48 ion: Xom wants to welcome you!!!! 02:02:54 But he can't because you won't visit him. 02:06:32 ion: He's actually crying. 02:06:38 goode 02:07:35 ion: Now he's laughing. 02:07:42 WHATEVER YOU DON'T LI nice ring. 02:07:53 Why are you not wearing it? 02:08:28 ion: Why aren't you wearing that ring. :( 02:08:55 Ah. 02:09:01 I’ll replace the ring of hunger with it when i get a scroll of remove curse. :-) 02:09:03 Nice Robustness. 02:09:17 I got both from the labyrinth. 02:09:56 berk the plant 02:20:37 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:22:20 ion: SWITCH TO XOM 02:27:31 ion: GT GT GT GT 02:28:43 Wow, i didn’t even realize i had this good rF and rC. 02:30:28 ion: See? So there's nothing Xom can do to hurt you. 02:30:43 ion: OK, at least promise me you'll switch to Xom for the orb run if you get that far. 02:31:38 ion: Trog's wrath won't even bother you with that kind of timescale. 02:33:19 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:34:05 ion: Ping me when you enter a branch or anything interesting happens. 02:34:23 (So I can yell at you to convert to Xom.) 02:50:56 -!- augur has joined. 02:52:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:30 -!- augur has joined. 03:08:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:10:14 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:29:29 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:30:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:34:25 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 03:45:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:45:25 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:45:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 03:58:05 2005 04:04:08 ion: So how do you deal with early-game gnolls? :( 04:07:34 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:19:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 04:32:29 The diamond seem not even one of the characters it uses itself 04:32:57 `quote basically 04:33:01 12) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 85) For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. \ 142) So basically we're having an awful lot of very dangerous intercourse. Involving open wounds. I'm going to 04:44:31 `quasically 04:44:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quasically: not found 04:45:33 -!- const has quit (Excess Flood). 04:46:43 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 04:52:04 -!- variable has joined. 05:00:09 You can make Writer into Either by: uncurry (flip $ maybe Right (const . Left) . getFirst) . runWriter (but this is not the case of WriterT) 05:00:42 -!- elliottc has changed nick to elliott. 05:02:10 elliott: Depends on what you have. :-) 05:02:18 ion: assume nothing 05:02:19 :p 05:02:26 flee 05:03:38 ion: Polearm. 05:05:16 ion: Stop playing, I'm watching FooTV. :( 05:06:30 06:06 casmith789: did you hear about nethack 4? 05:06:33 GOSSIP 05:11:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:11:30 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:11:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:11:58 Is the dodging skill worth training when wearing heavy armoure? 05:13:23 Gonna do L:8 05:14:12 ion: No, it's not. 05:14:13 Or so I hear. 05:14:47 ion: plz resize ur terminal 05:14:54 elliott: r 05:14:59 no *ur* 05:15:01 ion: pls convert to xom 05:15:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:15:09 pls convert to terminal 05:15:12 pls resize xom 05:20:13 06:20 tiles help you recognize monsters without having to check on the right or put yuor cursor over them. plus it adds flavor to the game 05:20:14 oh dear 05:22:40 :-D 05:23:19 Ooh, shoals should be nice since i’m a mf. 05:23:41 WHY AREN'T YOU AXEOME YET 05:23:43 *XOM 05:23:45 Axeome. 05:28:20 ion: Are you dead yet? 05:28:33 Almost 05:28:46 Great. 05:33:24 Rip, Aizul. 05:33:34 " In our hearts as they was in mind " 05:45:29 ion: Are you still playing? 05:45:32 Oh, no. 05:46:13 elliott: Did you hear about my exciting email from Prof. Don Knuth? 05:47:08 ion: Should I sleep? 05:47:27 no 05:47:34 "ionno" 05:47:35 GET IT 05:49:23 What message did you get? Knuth has no email, but I did once print out a message, put it in an envelope including address, give it to someone who was traveling there on business, who then gave it to the secretary of Knuth's office. 05:49:55 zzo38: His secretary (or someone) sent it to me. 05:51:20 But what is it? 05:53:02 He spoke with Ken Thompson and they agree that C89 shouldn't have allowed argc==0. 05:53:36 And various things. 05:55:33 i wonder if there are any security holes caused by executing setuid binaries with argc = 0 05:55:37 I agree too; argc should be positive since it include program name, it is a part of how C works. Except: Sometimes in case main is not a program loaded from some operating system, but instead is the operating system itself or something like that, then you should not try to access argc at all. 05:56:47 kmc: At least in the case of some programs I have written, there aren't any since all such programs intended to be setuid, I always check if it has correct command-line parameters first and the program terminates if it doesn't. 05:56:50 kmc: Unfortunately there isn't really a way to pass data in. 05:57:06 Although it can certainly cause segfaults. Maybe in some cases? 05:57:11 Hmm, you can pass data in in the environment. 05:57:17 yes 05:57:35 which comes right after argv on linux 05:57:37 Maybe something that reads too far into argv can be manipulated. 05:57:55 But it seems suspicious. 05:57:56 i was thinking while (--argc) { ... } 05:58:05 will loop forever if argc=0 05:58:15 and read through the environment array on linux 05:58:19 No it won't. :( 05:58:31 When I write programs intended to sun with setuid, or meant to be called remotely, I am always careful about these things. 05:58:43 while (--argc) is an idiom that appears in several of Knuth's programs. 05:59:21 shachaf: But are they standard user programs? If so, it isn't such an issue. 05:59:44 If they are meant for setuid or remote, then you have to be more careful. 05:59:49 kmc: You infinitist. 06:00:03 well really it's undefined behavior 06:00:37 Either it will eventually wrap around or it will segfault before that happens. 06:00:40 kmc: Even if (argc != 2) { printf("Usage: %s BLAH", argv[0]); } is undefined behavior. 06:00:59 In fact printf %s with NULL used to segfault on Solaris libc until a few years ago. 06:01:03 glibc checks it, though. 06:01:19 shachaf: I have never done a thing like that; I understand C programming. 06:01:25 shachaf: i wonder why you know that 06:02:19 kmc: Oh, right. 06:02:24 I forgot C doesn't specify signed flow. 06:02:29 (What's a good word for (under|over)flow?) 06:02:49 kmc: Which part? 06:03:15 zzo38: I've done a thing like that, and so have a bunch of other people. 06:03:28 Under the assumption that why would argc ever be < 1? 06:03:36 Instead of printf("Usage: %s BLAH", argv[0]); I will hardcode the program name (in a macro if necessary), and use fprintf(stderr,...) instead of sending the usage message to stdout, and include a line break. 06:03:59 zzo38: That was just for illustrative purposes. 06:04:08 -_- 06:04:31 zzo38: if (argc != 2) { fprintf(stderr, "Usage: %s BLAH\n", argv[0]); } is also UB 06:04:42 *Is* there a good word for (under|over)flow? 06:05:00 Well, yes, it is; but as I was saying I do not like to use argv[0] like that 06:05:05 optiflow 06:05:21 Er. 06:06:06 You can just call it overflow; I would use "underflow" only for stack underflow; but in case you don't like that then use different 06:06:15 secure C programming is easy as long as you don't make any mistakes 06:06:22 kmc: Do you usually bike on "trips"? 06:06:36 i think arithmetic underflow is a kind of arithmetic overflow, broadly speaking 06:06:50 kmc: Yes, it is a kind of arithmetic overflow I agree 06:07:00 shachaf: you mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_diethylamide#.22Bicycle_Day.22 06:07:34 kmc: Yes, like that. 06:07:39 I think you linked to that before once. 06:07:55 I think it was on Apr 19, in fact. 06:08:23 Internet Quiz Engine is a program I have written in C and intend to make safe and secure; I look and am careful, and it probably is; but if you find something wrong with it then feel free to notify me (try to exploit it first if you want, as long as you cause no damage by doing so) 06:08:43 kmc: What's your long Julytrip going to be? 06:08:52 kmc is all about the drugs. And trains. 06:09:01 kmc: Have you ever been on a train... on acid? 06:09:09 elliott: no 06:09:21 i took 2C-E for an airplane trip though 06:09:26 Close enough. 06:09:57 I once walked while on ibuprofen. 06:09:58 shachaf: I'm (maybe) biking to Bethel, Vermont for Firefly, which is a New England regional Burning Man sort of thing 06:10:05 I'm just that hardcore. 06:10:14 or i might get lazy and take the train 06:10:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:10:40 it's like 150 miles, probably in 3 days 06:10:45 2C-E is really not a catchy name. 06:10:50 yeah 06:10:51 They need to work on their marketing. 06:11:06 i don't think it has even been popular enough to get a street name 06:11:09 Drugs are totally ready for a disruptive startup. 06:11:19 Just need some of that Y Combinator funding. 06:11:36 Also insert Haskell joke. 06:11:53 how about genetically engineered E. coli which produce psilocybin 06:11:58 that would be disruptive 06:12:21 "Any street name is doomed to failure since 2C-E is simply not that distinctive for the majority of users." 06:12:34 Quick, startup joke... uhh... 06:12:42 i think it is pretty hard to distinguish the 5HT agonists, honestly 06:12:56 everyone has their own pet theory about how shrooms are more foo and acid is more bar, but they don't really match up 06:12:59 (I wonder if I'm on some kind of watchlist for that search.) 06:13:06 (I hope so.) 06:13:22 i think many people could tell them apart in a double-blind test, but their criteria for doing so will not be transferrable 06:13:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:14:22 Oh, I was going to sleep, wasn't I. 06:14:34 NO 06:14:38 YOU WEREN'T 06:14:50 Do you like the Internet Quiz Engine? Do you believe it is not a security breach? 06:15:02 kmc: :( 06:15:16 But if I don't sleep now, I'll sleep later. And probably not a later enough later to not wake up when it's dark or getting it. 06:15:17 interquiz net engine 06:15:43 kmc: I meant the other one. 06:16:13 I think "Do you believe it is not a security breach?" is a question that can only be prompted by something that demonstrates "it" is probably a security breach. 06:16:15 Or something. 06:17:46 Well, there is no such demonstration I know of at this time, but it is written in C and the source-codes is available to public, and it can be accessed remotely. 06:19:07 Hmm, Programming in the 21st Century seems to be devolving into self-reference a bit. 06:23:42 zzo38: Should I sleep. :( 06:24:00 elliott: Are you tired? Is it dark? 06:24:12 Yes and no. 06:24:18 It was dark but then it stopped being dark and got light again. 06:24:34 Sleep if you like to do so, please. 06:24:42 elliott: what is it 06:24:58 kmc: The, uh, sky, I guess. 06:25:48 imeant Programming in the 21st Century 06:25:52 Oh. 06:26:04 oh that blog 06:26:06 http://prog21.dadgum.com/. It's a pretty good blog. 06:26:17 Not as good as http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.com/, though! 06:27:45 whowrites arcanesentiment?? 06:30:06 prog21 claims to be a "super technical programming blog" but i just flipped through a half dozen articles and saw about 3 lines of code total 06:30:18 Where does it claim that? 06:30:23 http://prog21.dadgum.com/137.html 06:30:53 I think that's more than a little joking. It was more code-focused a while ago, anyway. 06:30:58 (By "a while" I mean "a few years".) 06:31:03 Perhaps the author has got a different "super technical programming blog"! 06:31:14 also here's yet another person who thinks the entire and sole point of Haskell is to never use state 06:31:25 (mainly in re the latest article) 06:31:48 That's unfair. 06:32:07 He's not exactly inexperienced with functional languages. 06:32:11 i know 06:32:13 Then they should learn! 06:32:37 Anyway, if you're using state, then it's only tenuously "functional programming" in the "declarative programming" sense most people use it to mean. 06:32:45 Whether it's Haskell is another matter entirely, of course. 06:33:05 ("State" here used as an abbreviation for "mutable state in the usual imperative manner".) 06:33:24 yeah 06:33:58 it's a common fallacy; this article is not an especially strong instance 06:33:59 You can use state, and a bunch of other things, by using the correct computable mathematical representation of such things. And, isn't there some commands in Haskell to make these imperative kind of state in IO monad? 06:34:00 "functional programming" doesn't mean much. 06:34:18 (Alternatively, means too much.) 06:34:28 means too many different things 06:34:31 One of my new goals on the Internet is to avoid arguments that are about words. 06:34:41 Unless they're explicitly about words, maybe. 06:34:41 aren't all arguments about words? 06:34:55 By that definition, everything is a "correct computable mathematical representation". 06:35:02 No, some arguments just use them. 06:35:03 C is a correct computable mathematical representation because you can model it formally. 06:35:06 Sounds elegant. 06:35:12 Selegant. 06:36:15 * kmc has a super technical programming blog 06:36:35 kmc: Arguments which stem from unshared definitions or axioms are probably rarely fruitful. 06:37:10 Definition disagreements are reasonably easy to overcome if someone notices and clarifies things. 06:37:23 * elliott is a super technical programming blog. 06:37:50 If two people have unshared axioms then an argument about theorems resulting from those axioms is mostly pointless. 06:38:11 unless they explicitly acknowledge it, and are trying to justify their respective axioms informally 06:38:20 http://ehird.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/computing-fib3-in-haskells-type-system.html -- is this super technical enough? (Okay, I never made any other posts to that thing. And also I broke the code before posting it because I didn't understand why "instance (C a) => D a" wouldn't work.) 06:38:27 I heard a rumour that a tradition in Indian philosophy is to say "these are my axioms; OK, these are your axioms; for the purpose of this argument let's just use the intersection" 06:38:59 That sounds too reasonable to be true, though. :-) 06:39:02 kmc: Not every argument is about words. Some are about irreconcilable differences in value systems. 06:39:12 I suppose you can make those to be arguments about words, too. (Such as the definition of "good".) 06:39:44 You can *make* nearly any argument be about words. 06:39:50 This is the art of "politics". 06:39:57 what 06:40:00 also it's pretty cheeky for him to claim to be on "the cutting edge of functional programming research" 06:40:02 I can't work out whether elliott's /ignore is on the IRC level or on the elliott level. 06:40:18 kmc: Didn't you hear? "cutting edge" is the old "mainstream". 06:40:25 kmc: Yes, cheeky, as in the position of his tongue when writing that. 06:40:28 You have to be on at least the "bleeding edge" to be worth anything. 06:40:33 You're taking him way too seriously. :p 06:40:56 sure it's tongue in cheek, but implicit in that joke is the assertion that actual published FP research is worthless 06:41:11 You should test it at first before writing the report. 06:41:21 kmc: Did you hear how the number of unordered n-tuples of elements of k is (n + k - 1) choose k? 06:41:28 Oh, I guess I did mention that while you were here. 06:41:43 "look at this shit essay i wrote, and it's super popular now, I guess that invalidates everyone else working in this field" 06:41:45 I don't think that's necessarily true; I think he was commenting more on the prominence of what he wrote in searches for the same thing, which had artificially made him resemble an authority. (But this is a silly thing to argue about.) 06:42:55 I haven't used Icon. Maybe I should use Icon. 06:43:41 "But any language that can implement its own interpreter isn't total!" Hmm, that sounds too vague to be strictly true. 06:45:03 kmc: Have you used Icon? 06:47:47 (Hey, does that statement correspond to Goedel's theorem?) 06:47:59 (And is the vagueness fixed by requiring the same things it does?) 06:49:07 i haven't 06:49:10 Should I sleep. :( 06:49:50 no 06:50:06 go to sleep elliott 06:50:10 kmc: Why. :( 06:50:18 Yes at least to me it does seem like Goedel's theorem, too 06:50:55 i think i agree with the prog21 guy more often than not 06:51:05 i've linked a lot of people to "Advice for aimless excited programmers" 06:51:13 zzo38: Yes, I think it does. You want to construct the program P = interpret(encoding of P). 06:51:20 And that gets you _|_. 06:51:39 and i've frequently ranted about how "Let's reimplement all existing software, but in Haskell!" is dumb 06:51:56 kmc: It's exceptionally dumb. They should do it in @lang intsead. 06:51:58 *insetad. 06:52:00 *fuck. 06:52:01 yeah 06:52:11 extern "Haskell" { ... } 06:52:21 Ew. 06:52:24 @lang can't talk to Haskell. 06:52:24 pong 06:52:33 shachaf: did you know that GCC has extern "Java" { ... } 06:52:43 kmc: Yes. 06:52:58 kmc: Shouldn't I sleep? 06:53:04 elliott: Nein. 06:53:11 elliott: you should sleep 06:53:13 You should implement extern "@lang" { ... } 06:53:27 No. 06:53:29 Nothing can talk to @lang. 06:53:34 Come on. 06:53:37 It's pure. 06:53:50 elliott: then how will i write a video game?? 06:53:54 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:55 checkmate atheists 06:54:07 How is the computer going to do anything if the nothing can talk to the @lang? 06:54:10 kmc: divine intervention 06:54:16 I'd use a device with a crappy UI if I understand the UI because I made it 06:54:20 :/ 06:54:20 are there any ahead-of-time native compilers for C# 06:54:22 There must somehow be some command to do so. 06:54:39 zzo38: It will mumble to an x86-64 computer if it has to. 06:54:42 Even if it is only the other way! 06:54:48 But it will refuse to rise to the level of "talking". 06:55:08 Also it'll be really rude about it, should I sleep. 06:55:53 Sgeo: Should I sleep. 06:56:30 it's weird that there are no high-level "mainstream" languages with AOT native compilers 06:56:45 AOT native compilers are sort of horrible to use. 06:56:55 kmc: There's gcj, isn't there? 06:57:04 kmc: Does D count as: high-level; "mainstream"? 06:57:05 yeah 06:57:08 Admittedly that's not a mainstream compiler. 06:57:11 maybe i should have put "mainstream" on "compilers" as well 06:57:15 If so, checkmate Pythonistas. 06:57:15 i don't think D is mainstream 06:57:20 (...It had to sound similar.) 06:57:25 kmc: It's in TIOBE!!!! 06:57:31 omg tiobe 06:57:41 TIOBE, also known for: absolutely fucking nothing else. 06:57:44 The Index Of Bad Estimates 06:57:50 *nothing fucking, perhaps. 06:57:50 burn 06:58:06 LOOKING FURTHER AT THE TIOBE INDEX (this is my catchphrase), Lisp sort of counts. 06:58:09 Also... Logo? 06:58:20 They think Logo is the 19th most popular programming language. 06:58:22 maybe COBOL is high level 06:58:27 nobody my age knows anything about COBOL 06:58:28 I'm... not sure what's up with that. 06:58:47 Probably a bunch of false matches for the word "logo". 06:58:54 What the fuck is NXT-G? 06:58:59 Oh. 06:58:59 kmc: Does Algol 68 count as mainstream and/or high-level? 06:59:00 Lego. 06:59:09 Apparently that's the 20th most popular programming language! 06:59:09 shachaf: I guess so 06:59:22 maybe Vala counts as both 06:59:25 Algol 68 counts as "mainstream"? 06:59:34 It was at one point at least. 06:59:40 It was? 06:59:47 My understanding was that nobody used Algol 68. 06:59:51 I have an Algol 68 interpreter installed on my machine. 06:59:53 Because it's complicated as shit. 07:00:00 It's a weird language. 07:00:01 Vala is used to write desktop apps, which we all know is the criterion for language success 07:00:02 "ALGOL 68 is substantially different from Algol 60 and was criticised partially for being so, so that in general "Algol" refers to dialects of Algol 60." 07:00:14 Oh, sure 'nough. 07:00:41 * shachaf wonders whether there can be such a thing as cynicism overflow. 07:00:41 There's a fork of the GNOME note-taking application Tomboy that tries to be completely identical in every way except it's written in C++ rather than C#. 07:00:43 Because Mono. 07:00:50 Perhaps we can figure out a way to exploit kmc. 07:00:54 Haskell might be used in financial analysis and bioinformatics and NSA cryptography, but it won't truly be mainstream until someone uses it to write a GTK+ app for downloading cat pictures 07:01:06 actually ManateeLazyCat probably did that already 07:01:08 I'm sure manatee can do that WHY THE FUCK AM I AWAKE 07:01:11 snap 07:01:13 :) 07:01:32 i always thought haskell isn't and shouldn't be a "mainstream" language 07:01:35 pikhq: "Should I sleep." 07:01:36 Oh, I mentioned Algol 68 and then elliott mentioned it. 07:01:37 but rather a language of many interesting niches 07:01:41 elliott: What time is it? 07:01:45 I guess elliott is reading my messages, just not replying. 07:01:45 And when did you wake? 07:01:46 @time pikhq 07:01:48 Local time for pikhq is Wed May 9 01:01:46 2012 07:01:52 @time elliott 07:01:52 Local time for elliott is 2012-05-09 07:01:52 +0000 07:01:53 I mean. 07:01:58 (I'm in BST.) 07:02:04 When did you wake? 07:02:12 Like 19:00. :( 07:02:33 That seem to be late for wake up!! 07:02:41 :'( 07:02:45 elliott: Only 12 hours awake, then? 07:03:02 I don't know, that's too much arithmetic for how tired I am. 07:03:20 ... You tired shouldn't be. 07:03:29 Well, I didn't sleep much. 07:03:51 shachaf: hey, i'm not *only* a cynic 07:03:56 kmc: You aren't? 07:04:22 Not *only* a cynic. A cynic with a super technical programming blog. 07:04:26 There's a difference! 07:04:26 Some other programming language not used anymore is BLISS (there is a lack of modern implementation); C became common. Although, I (and some others too) think some ideas of BLISS are better designed than C. (LLVM is also better designed than C) 07:04:28 right 07:04:51 "LLVM is better than C" is my favourite zzo38 opinion. 07:05:16 depends what you're using it for 07:05:23 Programming. 07:05:25 ghc backend 07:05:31 (Not just compiling to.) 07:05:43 Why would you write actual code in C? 07:06:04 i still think C is a pretty good language in its niche 07:06:16 Its niche being "languages that are C"? 07:06:28 HEY SHOULD I SLEEP 07:06:29 but it's not "close to the machine" or "a portable assembler" 07:06:34 pikhq never even answered me. :( 07:06:34 elliott: Well, LLVM does lack macros and so on; but if we can make something that has some features of BLISS and also all the LLVM commands, and then translates everything that isn't direct LLVM command into the LLVM commands, and then it will compile; would be good idea. 07:06:46 shachaf: who's the cynic now :( 07:06:46 elliott: I vote "not unless you're tired". 07:06:55 kmc: it's a portable PDP assembler, which doesn't contradict anything you said :P 07:07:04 I miss real CISCs. (note: I've never used a real CISC) 07:07:09 pikhq: I am :'( 07:07:27 pikhq: Should've voted: "iff you're tired" 07:07:32 kmc: C is, I suppose, pretty good language in its niche, but it has some bad designs 07:07:36 yes 07:07:47 It continues to bother me that people think C is "close to the machine". It's not all that close to x86 ASM, which itself is pretty abstracted from the hardware. 07:07:49 also by "C" i mean C99 with a variety of GNU extensions 07:08:03 pikhq: So is that yes if you are tired? 07:08:07 elliott: Yes. 07:08:10 Once it was easy to tell what C's bad designs were. 07:08:12 What's 8+8. 07:08:17 And the idea that it's "portable assembler" makes for some astonishingly bad C. 07:08:17 But then I forbade de signs of the bad designs 07:08:20 elliott: 16 07:08:20 (I know, it's 17.) 07:08:21 pikhq: well I think "close to the abstraction presented by the hardware" is a valid meaning of "close to the machine" 07:08:25 so i try to reserve judgement 07:08:36 but yes many people are misinformed here, and it bothers me 07:08:39 elliott: I bet I'm more tired than you. 07:08:41 @time shachaf 07:08:42 @time elliott 07:08:43 Local time for elliott is 2012-05-09 07:08:43 +0000 07:08:47 Local time for shachaf is Wed May 9 00:08:41 2012 07:08:47 QED 07:08:51 C isn't particularly close to the absraction presented by the hardware, either 07:08:52 kmc: You would have fit in here great a few years ago when I was complaining about all the same things. 07:08:58 kmc: 'Cept it's not *that* close to x86. 07:09:02 but it's a good deal closer than most languages people use 07:09:05 It should only take you a few months to decide to write an OS. 07:09:10 I mean, memcpy is a single instruction. 07:09:19 C compilers do a lot of fancy non-local optimization 07:09:21 Then some bad things happen though, SORRY THAT'S FATE. 07:09:24 I want a computer that can be programmed in Checkout 07:09:31 elliott: you were complaining about this before it was cool? 07:09:36 kmc: :( 07:09:50 Well, strcpy, sorry. 07:10:05 pikhq: memcpy too, no? 07:10:05 isn't memcpy also? 07:10:13 Oh, bleh. Right. 07:10:18 There's an instruction that decrements ecx and checks if it's 0 or something. 07:10:29 but there's also rep movs 07:10:32 There’s a Portal 2 sale. 07:10:41 hion 07:12:31 The consensus is that I sleep, right? 07:12:33 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:12:51 Yes. 07:12:57 ion: Huh, Portal 2 supports user-made puzzles these days? 07:13:23 shachaf: As of, uh, today. 07:13:42 i guess strcpy is repne movsb 07:13:45 pikhq: Oh. 07:13:57 rep ret 07:14:06 rep nop 07:14:09 All these great instructions. 07:14:22 * kmc <3 those instructions 07:14:25 Alas, those have undefined behavior. 07:14:33 Wow, you're all useless. 07:14:42 pikhq: I'm pretty sure an Intel and/or AMD manual defines the behaviors of those. 07:14:47 there are particular chips which define both 07:14:47 elliott: 寝る方が良い 07:14:57 kmc: I want a disassembler that shows what each instruction actually does! 07:15:01 shachaf: Sweet jesus on a stick. 07:15:03 How to sleep better 07:15:07 intel calls rep nop "pause" but it's encoded as rep nop 07:15:10 shachaf: Apparently something like that, yes. 07:15:22 it's a spin loop hint 07:15:25 The Intel manual has a pretty precise description of each instruction in sort-of pseudocode. 07:15:51 Probably a lot of it could be cut out to fit the context (you know whether you're in long mode and so on). 07:15:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ian#DEC_VAX 07:15:58 elliott: 日本語で寝られるの 07:16:01 This would be a useful feature of a disassembler program. 07:16:03 Does one exist? 07:16:17 and "rep ret" is a workaround for a bug in some AMD branch predictors 07:16:27 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Timeline_of_esoteric_programming_languages#AS.2F400 07:16:28 pikhq: Yay, I can read the first three characters of that! 07:16:31 (kmc might like those.) 07:16:32 but the new advice is to use "ret 0" instead 07:16:38 Actually I can read the first two and then make a heuristic guess at the third. 07:16:49 nice 07:16:59 shachaf: The heuristic guess is almost certainly right. :) 07:17:07 pikhq: Yep. 07:17:23 Note to self tomorrow: fix unsigned tempalte on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Turing-complete. 07:17:34 What does "で" mean? 07:17:38 Also correct myself wrt hosted C and CHAR_BIT. 07:17:39 Is it a particle? What's a particle? 07:17:43 Does it mean "in"? 07:17:55 As in "in Japanese"? 07:18:01 shachaf: In this context, yes. 07:18:15 To which question? 07:18:21 I'm going to sleep assholes. 07:18:32 shachaf: Actually, all the ones where "yes" is a sensible answer. 07:18:42 All these assholes are so slept. 07:18:43 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:18:52 "で" is a particle meaning something along the lines of "by means of"... 07:19:24 Hmm, is "ら" a ra? 07:19:28 Yes. 07:19:34 Weird font. 07:19:46 The sentence translates as "You can sleep in Japanese" 07:19:49 And れ is re. 07:19:54 * pikhq nods 07:20:00 rareruno? 07:20:06 Yup. 07:20:09 What does that even mean? 07:20:17 "nihongo de nerareru no" 07:20:33 That big complicated thing is just pronounced "ne"? 07:20:46 japanese-language by-means-of sleep-able explanation 07:20:49 Yes. 07:21:29 So why not just write "ne"? 07:21:35 RIDDLED YOU THERE, DIDN'T I 07:21:56 Perhaps, so that it can be understood 07:22:00 Cause that'd be ね, not 寝. 07:22:12 That is why not just write "ne" 07:22:16 See, so much harder to read. 07:22:27 goode pointe 07:22:45 It has nothing to do with how hard it is to read, but with how hard it is to understand, which is different. 07:22:52 め looks too much like ぬ 07:23:08 I mean, 中華人民民主主義共和国 is much nicer than ちゅうかじんみんみんしゅしゅぎきょうわこく. 07:23:28 What does that say? 07:23:37 "Democratic People's Republic of China" 07:23:44 Let's see. 07:23:45 Longest all-kanji phrase I could pull out of my ass. 07:23:48 中 07:24:25 中? 07:24:51 Yes. China is the "middle country" donchano 07:25:14 (they literally thought they were the center of everything so they called themselves that.) 07:25:43 I'm trying to figure out what 中 is. 07:25:45 -!- aloril has joined. 07:25:56 Without looking it up. Too easy, right? 07:26:05 pikhq: To be fair, everyone thought they were the center of everything. 07:26:14 What a pity they were all wrong until America came along! 07:26:17 "Middle", "center". 07:26:33 Should I look at it as mouth-thing + line-thing or something? 07:26:42 That is how it's written, yes. 07:26:48 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 07:26:50 What's the line-thing? 07:26:56 Just a line. 07:27:02 I am even play mahjong. I know it means center, and in Japanese mahjong this tile is called "chun" 07:27:16 Single line going top-to-bottom. 07:27:33 If you write really fast it ends up looking a little bit like ゆ 07:28:17 OK. 07:28:27 00:23 < pikhq> I mean, 中華人民民主主義共和国 is much nicer than ちゅうかじんみんみんしゅしゅぎきょうわこく. 07:28:38 華 looks like it has a bunch of things. 07:28:44 Like a rice-field-thing? 07:28:58 I don't really know. 07:29:11 It's... Weird. 07:29:20 What's 華? 07:29:27 I don't think I ever see it outside of 中華. 07:29:40 Which is pronounced how? 07:29:46 か 07:29:51 I don't even remember the semantics, cause it's basically only there. 07:29:53 I mean 中華 07:29:58 ちゅうか 07:30:31 OK. 07:30:42 人 means "life" or "person" or something like that? 07:30:50 I don't remember. 07:30:56 "Person". 07:31:08 person or human 07:31:09 Also, I did the wrong damned phrase. 07:31:23 It's only 中華人民共和国 07:31:31 Oh. 07:31:33 "People's Republic of China". 07:31:38 They're not officially democratic. 07:31:57 So, 民 07:32:06 "trombone player"? 07:32:08 "People", in the sense of "people's" 07:32:17 I thought we already had "person". 07:32:35 Yup. 07:33:50 So person-people? 07:34:09 Yeah. 07:34:27 人民 is "people's", as used in the names of communist countries. 07:34:56 Hm. 07:35:02 What of 和? 07:35:14 That looks like a thing-thing next to a mouth-thing. 07:35:14 "peaceful"-ish 07:35:40 共和国 cooperative-peaceful-country ish = republic 07:35:54 much of that stuff about the AS/400 seems decidedly not-stupid 07:37:33 strongly typed pointers, unified ram/disk address space, hardware garbage collection 07:37:37 these all sound great 07:38:42 also AIUI the instruction set is a virtual-ish thingy which the OS compiles to model-specific native instructions 07:38:57 AS/400 sounds fancy. 07:39:43 * shachaf needs to go to sleep. 07:45:26 * shachaf does. 07:47:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 07:50:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:53:20 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:53:48 -!- TheConsultant has joined. 07:53:54 hi 07:55:30 -!- TheConsultant has left. 08:06:06 -!- aloril has joined. 08:22:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:19:35 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:07:05 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:10:15 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:10:15 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:15:04 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 10:17:42 kmc: the problem with doing all that in hardware is that you're stuck with it. 10:18:56 -!- shubshub has joined. 10:19:08 I have a new idea! 10:19:12 i think we've seen many OSes and langs improve considerably especially because they've been designed for a comparably fairly minimal hardware platform 10:19:14 shubshub: do it 10:19:22 Wanna hear about it? 10:19:32 no i want to download an exe 10:19:39 no exe = i have no time for u 10:19:59 j/k what's your idea? 10:20:10 My idea is to create a language built specifically to make games in batch 10:20:18 batch? 10:20:27 Basically you have a script telling it what to d eg 10:20:28 wat 10:20:42 move sprite to newpos 10:20:51 and it will move 10:21:10 Its Geniusi thought it up in a split second 10:21:33 or sprite do shoot enemy at position x y 10:21:57 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:22:11 if sprite do shoot enemy at x y results miss do sprite do shoot enemy at new position x y 10:22:41 Its going to be so AWESOME! 10:22:56 I shall call it 10:23:10 BatchMove 10:23:29 cheater_: well like i said the instruction set is a virtual-ish thingy which the OS compiles to model-specific native instructions 10:23:39 and i think you can use those native instructions too 10:24:10 if you specify garbage collection instructions then in the worst case you implement them in software, as now 10:25:31 game start with player at position x y and enemy at position x y and not win 10:26:02 anyway ima go work on this new language wish me luck 10:29:02 kmc: yeah but you also mentioned hardware features 10:29:07 hw gc.. 10:29:25 were typed pointers a hw thing? 10:29:58 that one is probably hard to emulate without hardware support 10:30:10 man, i've spent way too much time reading up on vintage op amps. 10:30:21 haha, why 10:30:23 kmc: you just have a software gc, no? 10:30:27 because i am interested 10:30:36 i'm big on recording equipment and stuff 10:30:50 and i hit a link about the jensen 990 randomly 10:30:58 last time i searched for that stuff i could find nothing 10:31:05 now the web's full of that stuff 10:31:30 $ ls op\ amps/ -1A | wc -l 10:31:30 66 10:31:57 that's mostly just info about 4 different op amps 10:32:08 so that was my last 3 hours 10:32:38 did u kno: the first op amps were just pcb's with components on 'em 10:33:00 -!- shubshub has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:33:06 then they started potting that stuff in resin and calling it an "integrated circuit" 10:33:22 the nice thing about discrete op amps is that they have amazing headroom 10:33:29 and lots of current capability 10:33:39 so they are really good for like, high-end mixers 10:34:22 you can get really low noise too 10:35:07 in the meantime i ended up listening to biosphere - cirque and it totally put me in the zone gathering info about that stuff 10:35:20 that guy's music is fairly hypnotic 10:36:47 hey kmc, do you know of anything in linux that could slow down disk io considerably? 10:37:11 maybe some sort of debug libs or a misconfiguration 10:38:19 i've noticed for some time my pc's disk operation was very slow, but i thought it was just a bit older than usual, but now i started comparing that with network IO and it's much faster when i get data from the network directly, without hdd access 10:38:37 e.g. browser using or not using a local squid instance 10:39:02 it's expected that network IO to a good server over a fast pipe will be faster than a shitty local hard drive 10:39:03 flash videos while it's buffering vs while it's done downloading (the former really ends up skipping around) 10:39:12 this sounds severe though 10:39:25 echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/block_dump 10:39:27 well notice that just a pending download in youtube can slow things down 10:39:34 that will start to spew block layer events to the system log 10:39:38 maybe you see something in there 10:39:46 misconfiguration of the block device can do it too 10:39:53 this is an old ubuntu 10:39:58 check hdparm, maybe dma is disabled or something 10:39:59 i think i started with 8.something 10:40:03 i will 10:40:06 boot a livecd and see if block performance gets better 10:40:13 is there a filemon for linux? 10:40:22 i don't know what filemon is 10:40:37 filemon is a windows thing from sysinternals, shows you all file operations happening on your pc 10:40:43 debugger 10:41:07 i thought maybe linux is doing something like that and reporting it to some api and hogging down because of this 10:41:38 i don't know how to get all file events on linux 10:41:45 how about some file events 10:41:46 you can get them for individual files/directories using inotify 10:41:47 or most file events 10:41:52 hmm 10:41:58 maybe there's some sort of inotify fuckup 10:41:58 oh also check iotop 10:42:04 and see if some program is hogging the IO bandwidth 10:42:19 i'd know that, the hdds would be running constantly 10:42:20 but it's not that 10:42:31 ok 10:42:33 it's like, every time there's file io it has a constant wait time 10:42:47 or constant cpu time 10:43:18 how about IO scheduler settings 10:43:20 cat /sys/class/block/sda/queue/scheduler 10:43:31 and then i think there are a bunch of tunables 10:43:35 but i don't know what to do with them 10:44:06 example: in gnome press alt-f2 and you get a popup for running a program 10:44:18 i press alt-f2 and while i'm typing it tries to autocomplete or something 10:44:27 and the window freezes for like half a second 10:44:55 however if i quickly type, e.g. nm-applet, and press enter, then it closes the window immediately and starts the program 10:45:32 while doing that i look at iotop but nothing conclusive happens 10:45:59 gnome-panel (which is what spawns the window) shows up at the top of iotop but for a split second and it doesn't bump any summaries 10:46:46 actually the last one was a lie, it does bump "total disk read" but only to like 800 K/s 10:47:09 try killing random parts of gnome until it stops 10:47:09 There's that new blktrace thing for IO tracing. 10:48:21 # hdparm -d /dev/sda4 10:48:21 /dev/sda4: 10:48:21 HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device 10:48:30 # hdparm -d /dev/sda 10:48:30 /dev/sda: 10:48:30 HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device 10:48:54 manual says: -d get/set using_dma flag 10:49:10 -!- shubshub has joined. 10:49:22 "hdparm -i" should show the mode it's using with a *. 10:49:54 I suppose using_dma is some sort of a specific thing for a specific case. 10:51:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:51:19 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 10:52:46 hdparm -i shows me around 75 MB/s, that shouldn't be so bad then 10:52:58 can it be that something in linux is eating cpu while i'm writing to disk? 10:53:32 i'm using gvfs for some things, but of course not for the root (which is what would be written to and read from by all the cases i described) 10:56:54 maybe it's even something in gnome - do e.g. flash or firefox use some sort of gnome api for fs access? 10:57:45 flash would use firefox for fs access 10:57:51 i don't think firefox uses gvfs but it's possible 10:59:00 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: R.I.P). 11:00:41 oh the gvfs thing and the flash/firefox disk access thing were separate ideas 11:00:56 i don't think firefox would be like.. specifically using some sort of gvfs api. 11:02:52 well you said "some sort of gnome api" 11:02:59 yeah you're right 11:04:32 # cat /sys/class/block/sda/queue/scheduler 11:04:32 noop deadline [cfq] 11:04:56 ok, cfq is the default and is usually sensible 11:05:18 "hdparm -i shows me around 75 MB/s" < that should've been -t 11:05:47 What's the smallest turing-complete esolang? 11:05:54 And by smallest i mean "least instructions" 11:06:14 one instruction 11:06:19 (without production rules or i/o) 11:06:31 subtract and branch if negative 11:07:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subleq 11:08:30 try killing random parts of gnome until it stops < there's not much gnome to kill really, i've got gnome-panel, gdm-simple-slave, gnome-keyring-daemon, gnome-session, polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1, gnome-power-manager, gnome-screensaver, /usr/lib/gnome-disk-utility/gdu-notification-daemon, 11:09:26 why a disk utility needs a daemon is beyond me though 11:14:22 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:14:51 -!- davidwerecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:18:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:20:06 kmc: do you use gnome 2? 11:20:29 i'm... not really sure 11:20:37 what ubuntu are you on? 11:20:45 the one that's actually debian 11:20:49 debian unstable 11:20:56 i don't have a gnome login session 11:21:01 my preferred amount of gnome is 0 11:21:11 oh 11:21:16 :( 11:21:23 but i like to use certain applications which in turn launch various of those gnome daemons 11:21:37 every so often I will get annoyed and try to disable most of them 11:21:37 yeah i need you to be using gnome-panel though 11:21:48 why 11:21:52 i have no panel or status bar of any kind 11:21:57 because i want someone to strace their gnome-panel 11:22:01 so that i can compair 11:22:12 you should ask #ubuntu 11:22:15 [troll suggestion] 11:22:24 they use gnome 3 11:22:26 which is inferior 11:22:48 not all of them do 11:23:07 tru troll 11:23:21 10.04 LTS desktop is still supported 11:23:21 !trollcoins kmc +20 11:23:29 and was the most recent LTS until like last week 11:23:37 it only gets strong arm support 11:23:50 if you know what i mean 11:23:53 no 11:24:09 kinda like those parents that beat their children because they "love them" 11:24:35 10.04 is that kind of abuse case i guess 11:24:43 right then 11:24:55 i'll troll #gnome 11:27:49 cheater_: what should i do next for mosh 11:29:57 make it use 1 port 11:30:21 also: 32 bit color 11:32:07 Add an audio player 11:33:01 troll suggestion: hidden cmdline switch that engages a plasma visual 11:35:02 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 11:35:39 screw 32-bit color 11:35:44 double-precision HDR floating point 11:37:33 ++ 11:39:43 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 11:42:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:08 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:49:32 -!- itidus22 has joined. 11:52:20 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:56:35 -!- itidus21 has joined. 11:58:41 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:36:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:08:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:08:24 -!- nortti has joined. 13:08:50 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:08:54 Yay! Got my system unfucked. ^_^ 13:12:33 what was the fuckage? 13:13:45 kmc: /sbin/init was broken 13:15:03 that'll do it 13:15:10 Happens 13:15:19 how does it happen? 13:15:32 dunno 13:15:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:15:47 I once fixed a server that had an error in a shellscript inside initrd 13:15:56 Or well, busybox itself didn't quite run correctly 13:15:59 Weird, weird boot failures. 13:16:51 Lumpio-: /sbin/init was symlink to broken busybox which got broken because power cable fell out of my computer's power socket when I was updating 13:17:53 -!- augur has joined. 13:18:53 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:19:02 ...my thing had somehow gotten a busybox that wouldn't work correctly in an early boot environment 13:19:15 It wanted procfs to be mounted to work correctly 13:19:28 Which was one of the things the shellscript it was supposed to run was supposed to do. 13:19:35 So it didn't quite work. 13:21:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:29 out of curiosity, which distros were the two of you using 13:42:25 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:54:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:54:37 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 13:54:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:55:49 Arch Gentoo 13:57:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:03:56 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:14:49 -!- Gregor has joined. 14:29:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:58:08 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 14:58:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:13:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:14:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:25:40 -!- esolang_1234 has joined. 15:25:59 Hey... I have an idea for an esolang 15:26:33 but I don't have a wiki account :( 15:26:54 Can someone create it for me? 15:26:59 I' 15:27:08 I'll give the info. 15:33:02 -!- esolang_1234 has left. 15:35:41 -!- esolang_1234 has joined. 15:36:05 I guess I left by accident. 15:36:18 Anyway, i'm leaving anyway. 15:36:31 Does anyone have a BF quine? 15:36:41 -!- esolang_1234 has left ("BF quine?"). 15:47:03 @tell esolang_1234 1) You don't need an account on the wiki to make a page, anonymous editing is allowed. 2) There are no sensitive credentials required to create an account, why not just make one? 15:47:03 Consider it noted. 15:48:09 there should be esolangs named BF and Brainf*ck and Brainf**k, each vastly different from Brainfuck 15:49:02 BF is Befunge ;) 15:50:25 of course 15:52:06 -!- calamari has joined. 15:59:43 i wonder if multitasking increases cases of internet addiction. as drowning in browser tabs can tell us, when men (i simply do not know about women) have the opportunity to multitask they create for themselves task-debt 16:01:03 moreover that one of the fundamental differences between how we do things with a computer and without is probably the multitasking 16:01:32 i like how you assume this is gender dimorphic for no reason 16:01:51 and by "like" i mean "kill all humans" 16:02:02 reason = a lifetime of growing up being told women are better at multitasking 16:02:42 as for the task thing, im wrong about that too of course since multi tasking is about cpu time more than user interface time 16:03:23 and maybe that xerox didn't get a chance to finish these GUI ideas before they got rushed out the gate by apple/microsoft 16:05:49 -!- itidus20 has joined. 16:08:41 -!- itidus22 has joined. 16:08:49 *&^&*$$^%$%^$^% 16:09:14 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:09:42 -!- itidus21 has joined. 16:10:53 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:12:31 looks like you're multitasking itidus21 16:13:30 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:20:14 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 16:26:58 but only 3-way 16:27:23 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:30:33 back 16:31:26 so my concern is not so much with process or application multitasking, but specifically user interface multitasking 16:33:03 although it has it's uses, theres probably better ways it could be done.. i guess unix/linux command line users have already known this a long time 16:34:23 like.. in windows.. i often find myself opening a notepad to transfer a piece of text between two apps 16:34:58 but somehow i imagine on a command line theres just "better" ways such needs are met 16:35:49 and often it's for formatting... like to remove linebreaks when posting in irc. 16:37:55 to make matters worse, with regard to the broswer, each tab having it's own history.. there should really be a tree to map those links 16:38:21 instead of an array of tab histories 16:39:54 -!- nortti has joined. 16:40:17 in general, i don't think it is of much benefit for me to start doing 30 things with computer before i have finished the first 1 16:41:32 you should probably start by making sure it's of benefit for you to do anything at all 16:41:56 (I have decided that it's better for me to do nothing at all, for example) 16:43:21 i don't think anyone else here has any such problem.. so yeah.. if anyone wants to buy deranged ranting services.. you know where to call 16:43:41 but why would i pay when i get it for free? 16:44:35 even snake venom is useful for developing antivenom 16:45:14 -!- elliott has joined. 16:45:20 07:35:54: much of that stuff about the AS/400 seems decidedly not-stupid 16:45:42 yeah, but I suspect it'd have been doomed to slowness with the rest of the "true" CISCs 16:46:01 oh noes, did I miss a discussion about mainframes? 16:46:13 sort of 16:48:46 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:48:58 -!- nortti has joined. 16:50:18 olsner: i will consider that. (those 2 posts) is as good as anything the chinese have ever written. 16:50:51 what 16:51:11 the 2 lines he put before elliott arrived 16:51:18 what about the chinese 16:51:44 well it sounds like the kind of thing they would say in their ancient philosophies 16:52:02 now i didnt word this well 16:52:20 but i actually think the chinese elucidated some of the most concise and minimialist philosophical advice 16:52:45 A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!" 16:52:47 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 16:53:06 itidus21: stuff like that is what they say in "the ancient philosophies" 16:53:27 hmpf 16:53:28 itidus21: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan 16:53:43 ahh koans. 16:53:47 Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand? 16:53:53 ive not really looked into them 16:53:58 does anyone know how to change keyboard config for linux virtual consoles 16:54:06 13:16:51: Lumpio-: /sbin/init was symlink to broken busybox which got broken because power cable fell out of my computer's power socket when I was updating 16:54:12 and this is why package managers need atomic updates 16:54:14 (*cough* nix) 16:54:48 15:25:59: Hey... I have an idea for an esolang 16:54:48 15:26:33: but I don't have a wiki account :( 16:54:48 15:26:54: Can someone create it for me? 16:54:48 yeah i was trying to remember if Debian did this right or if I've just never interrupted an upgrade this way 16:54:50 15:26:59: I' 16:54:52 15:27:08: I'll give the info. 16:54:53 elliott: How would that have helped? the binary itself was corrupted 16:54:54 lol 16:54:58 kmc: debian doesn't do it right in the general case 16:55:07 nortti: because the power would have cut before the binary would be swapped 16:55:13 which would happen at the very end of the update process, atomically 16:55:31 kmc: but it might have some special hacks for important packages, dunno 16:55:42 I don't know of any package manager than Nix that can update more than one package atomically 16:57:04 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:57:29 olsner: like two hands clapping but half as loud 16:57:30 because there's only one 16:57:33 hope that helps 16:57:39 elliott: thanks 16:57:57 elliott: you cracked the code 16:58:04 we need to get you on the phone to the Pope of China immediately 16:58:11 buddhism is over 16:58:14 yep 16:58:17 checkmate buddha 16:58:30 silly hindus and their koans 16:58:38 ice cream koan 16:58:59 Isn't it ko-AN? 16:59:36 isn't it? 16:59:42 Well, "cone" isn't pronounced ko-AN. 16:59:52 It's COH-nn or something. 17:00:08 Yes, it's pronounced ko-ahn. That's not really enough to ruin the pun. 17:00:27 a good pun is impossible to ruin 17:00:53 Puin. 17:01:49 Shoe-in for a puin. 17:03:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:03:33 Gregor: Where's all the economy giraffes? 17:03:55 elliott: No soap, radio! 17:04:19 How dare you. 17:04:47 no soup, no radish 17:09:07 radish sort 17:09:50 bobble sort 17:32:59 Bubble bobble sort 17:33:06 (Best sort) 17:35:40 i already implied that Gregor 17:35:43 mensch Gregor 17:42:47 kmc: look at this great haskell question http://stackoverflow.com/revisions/10521189/1 17:44:00 how can i resist 17:44:25 you've trolled newbies a million times 17:44:40 you don't go for easy things like that any more 17:47:05 elliott: nowhere is it advertised as a haskell question 17:47:10 wrong 17:47:12 take a look at the bottom 17:47:20 they tagged it [haskell] 17:47:38 edited one minute ago by don stewart 17:47:39 haha 17:48:32 i like that it allows the input file to inject arbitrary code 17:48:34 i guess he's back from his hiatus 17:48:40 when are you back from your hiatus kmc 17:48:48 dunno 17:48:58 arbitrary code injection is par for the course in C hacks 17:49:07 but it takes some skill to get it in Python hacks 17:49:43 "Convert it to a while loop. You are hitting recursion limits, basically, so if you remove the recursion, your problem should go away" 17:52:26 -!- nortti has joined. 17:53:36 that's python for you 17:53:54 -!- rszeno has joined. 17:53:54 oh wait 17:53:57 i didn't actually read the code 17:53:59 heh 17:54:09 `welcome rszeno 17:54:17 rszeno: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:54:22 -!- qfr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:54:53 -!- qfr has joined. 17:55:13 thank you elliot, alredy read it, this is why i'm here 17:56:49 Good. 17:58:03 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:58:15 Hellooooooo! 17:58:55 I say the free category is not a forward category transformer any more than the free monoid is a forward monoid transformer, but both are valid backward transformers. 17:59:09 Is it? 17:59:48 Category transformers: monads in disguise 17:59:51 -!- boily has joined. 18:00:36 Ngevd: No, I mean functors, where it is a general functor which can act on any category to a new one, instead of a normal functor which is only from one category to another 18:01:05 zzo38, I'm still less than a novice at category theory. I was making a Transformers pun 18:01:23 (The free monad is also a backward monad transformer, not a forward one) 18:02:32 Ngevd: Then learn, from Wikipedia and so on 18:04:52 -!- itidus20 has joined. 18:08:20 itidus20, want to learn category theory with me? 18:08:46 stop 18:08:55 probably not a good time considering i keep having connection dropouts 18:09:06 stope 18:09:08 tope 18:09:09 topee 18:09:11 opee 18:09:15 opeee 18:09:17 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:09:18 peee 18:09:19 peeee 18:09:21 eeee 18:09:23 eeees 18:09:27 eees 18:09:28 eeest 18:09:30 eest 18:09:32 eesto 18:09:35 esto 18:09:36 estop 18:09:37 stop 18:10:19 i must say i have recently seen videos advising people about the difficulty of getting a math phd.. and i am probably more out of my ballpark than i realize 18:10:34 even though, category theory is 2 innocent words.. both of which i already feel familiar with 18:11:06 Words mean little, they only work in combination 18:11:08 category being.. lets say.. horror movies.. versus romance movies.. theory being 18:11:50 for people like me it's an imagined explanation for something... more formally it means something more formal 18:12:54 -!- augur has joined. 18:13:16 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:38 i assume (wrongly) that all i need to know about category theory could be summarized in 2 - 3 neat paragraphs written in simple english. 18:13:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/♦ dafuk 18:14:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:♦ 18:14:57 If you don't want a confusing page that breaks the site layout like that, bring it up on the talk page :P 18:16:24 itidus20: If you think so, then see if the Simple English Wikipedia has such an article 18:16:31 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:16:37 Hello! 18:16:37 i don't think so 18:16:47 i wishfully think so 18:16:59 hgfrtyuiolpo 18:17:05 Then look at the normal Wikipedia 18:17:31 i probably couldn't learn it in 5 years 18:18:30 i havent tested my intellect.. i don't know in practice what i am capable of or not 18:18:42 but then.. 18:18:58 the ability to overcome laziness certainly must help a lot.. and easily discountable 18:20:51 Simply, a category consists of a set of objects, and morphisms, each of which has a source and target. If you have a morphism with source A and target B, and another with source B and target C, they can be composed, and composition is associative. There is also an identity morphism for each object, with the source and target both that object. 18:21:19 That is what it is. Is this OK? 18:21:37 it will shut me up :D 18:21:44 amazing 18:24:37 I didn't know that was possible. 18:25:01 19:24 I have to login there at mantis main_page. My online gaming account does not seem to qualify for this 18:31:14 remotely rebooting machine is a bit strange experience 18:31:49 Oh, pyralspite finally died. 18:32:04 Or at least, it doesn't respond to pings. 18:32:35 http://sprunge.us/ieMS weird 18:39:46 I don't like Haskell's deleteBy function; whose idea was that? I have replaced them by: deleteF :: MonadLogic m => (x -> Bool) -> m x -> m x; 18:40:55 elliot: is up and running but reject icmp 18:40:59 zzo38: congrats, you have replaced deleteBy with filter . (not .) 18:41:26 rszeno: strange. its httpd is dead too. it's a VPS, so I guess the machine itself is down but their routing is doing something funny 18:41:34 it'll probably disappear soon 18:41:36 elliott: No, it only delete the first one!! 18:41:43 zzo38: oh 18:42:18 (That is what the MonadLogic constraint is for, so that you can tell which one is first; if you don't care then you use MonadPlus, which is what my version of filter uses) 18:43:08 kmc: what's hackin' 18:43:37 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:49:15 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:49:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:52:08 Taneb: Hey, remind me to ask Graue to redirect esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/* to the corresponding esolangs.org archive. 18:52:47 kmc: i thought of your brain feedback device when i saw: http://www.valkee.com/uk/science.html 18:55:19 brain feedback.. well i certainly have some views about such things which would not sit well 18:55:43 itidus20: category theory isn't really a very active field afaik 18:55:45 but naturally that means i am going to go ahead 18:55:59 (think I (are s-expressions (pretty easy to understand))) 18:57:01 the slowness of the muscles of the fingers, and of the eyes scanning text, etc.. provides a buffer to prevent humans being overworked 18:57:24 but.. if the brain is reached directly bypassing the rest.. then the buffer is in danger 18:57:43 oklopol: However, category theory can make a lot of things! (Including, category with one object for a monoid, a thin category of a partial ordering (since they have the same laws), etc) 18:57:46 itidus20: well you've seen all you need to know about categories now, so let's do number theory. 0 is a number and if n is a number then S(n) is a number. 18:57:56 the work required will expand to meet the labour available, and everyone will basically be a lot sadder for it 18:59:01 elliott, I'm too busy trying not to fall asleep 19:00:00 and in all this, the whole concept of work as being intended to make life easier for humans in general (is this ever actually true?) will be lost.. further removed from potential utopia 19:00:41 Taneb: rip 19:00:49 oklopol: i didn't say i read what zzo said >:) 19:02:06 zzo38: for me at least, category theory is most useful in that you can describe certain ubiquitous phenomena with universal properties. because that is nice. 19:02:50 afk-- 19:03:14 i don't need to say that.. sorry 19:04:56 oklopol: Yes, that is one of the things it does. But it also does a large number of other things. 19:06:47 i don't think the fact that groups, monoids and partial orders can be thought of as categories is very useful for the common working mathematician. 19:07:27 -!- esolang_1234 has joined. 19:08:21 "itidus20 and in all this, the whole concept of work as being intended to make life easier for humans in general (is this ever actually true?)..." it is true that work makes life easier for people, yes. 19:08:45 if no one worked, there would be nothing to eat. 19:09:09 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:09:29 hi esolang_1234 19:09:34 hi elliott 19:09:34 esolang_1234: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:09:53 zzo38: btw disclaimer: it is possible that you know more about category theory than me, since i don't know anything about it. 19:10:07 Oh. Ok Gregor. 19:10:11 esolang_1234: I saw your messages in the logs; you can edit the wiki anonymously, you just have to fill out a CAPTCHA 19:10:23 but the registration process is simple (it doesn't require an email or anything) 19:10:27 with category theory, i feel i have to mention this fact, since in all other branches of mathematics, none of you ever compare to my divine excellence. 19:10:33 But I really * Ack(4,3) don't like giving my ip address to the public. 19:10:43 oerjan is just me in a disguise 19:10:47 register an account, then; that doesn't expose your IP to anyone but administrators 19:10:58 I also don't like registering :( 19:11:05 it's just a username and password :p 19:11:07 I know. I don't know why. 19:11:14 esolang_1234: but uh 19:11:16 hate to break it to you but 19:11:19 20:07 esolang_1234 has joined (40d8777d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.216.119.125) 19:11:23 hi, i want to edit your website but i am unwilling to do it in any of the supported ways 19:11:26 I know. 19:11:32 so plz accommodate me specially 19:11:39 Not as many people read the logs, though. 19:11:44 At least I think... 19:11:54 could someone please put that ip on the front page 19:12:04 a few people read the logs regularly... probably slightly less than read recentchanges 19:12:08 oklopol: don't do that 19:12:10 esolang_1234: anyway i'm like you, i understand. 19:12:14 I'll hide the revision if anyone does 19:12:14 Thanks 19:12:27 took me years to make an account, and i don't like using it 19:12:29 Still, I don't have experience editting. 19:12:47 Oh, that reminds me 19:13:00 esolang_1234: a few of the users (mostly me and oerjan) clean up pages formatting-wise after they're created 19:13:02 I still need to define Dilston 19:13:17 Taneb: what's dilston? 19:13:25 elliott: I'm at school, and esolangs.org is blocked 19:13:28 It's a hamlet to the East of Hexham 19:13:33 Suprising, this isn't. 19:13:34 we're blocked from schools? :D 19:13:37 elliott: don't do what btw, say things like that or actually do it? 19:13:39 the wiki is 19:13:40 what does it block us as? 19:13:46 oklopol: don't put the IP on the main page 19:13:48 Let me check. 19:13:59 "unknown" 19:14:05 elliott: do you think i know how to do that? :D 19:14:05 oklopol, also a future esolang that can only be Turing complete if the collatz conjecture is false 19:14:09 conwaylife.com is also blocked. 19:14:11 :( lame, they couldn't even give us a proper reason 19:14:16 esolang_1234, email of the people blocking? 19:14:18 i bet they just block all wikis or someting 19:14:20 They do that for almost everything. 19:14:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:14:39 Hello ais523 19:14:40 hi ais523 19:14:59 Hi ais523 19:14:59 Hang on 19:15:09 hanging 19:15:10 elliott: it's all because brainfuck isn't censored. 19:15:10 esolang_1234, esolangs.org is blocked, but IRC isn't!? 19:15:14 hi people who said hi to me 19:15:21 hi everyone else 19:15:22 hi ais523 19:15:30 oklopol: i'll move the page to b****fuck :) 19:15:43 okay, then i'm sure everything will be fine 19:15:48 ais523: what about the people who neither said hi to you nor didn't? 19:15:55 oh, hmm 19:15:56 Taneb: Yeah. 19:16:03 you phrased it in such a way as to avoid the excluded middle 19:16:03 pah 19:16:10 although, hmm 19:16:10 so i was reading up on ordinals today 19:16:15 that shit is fucked up 19:16:17 esolang_1234, weird 19:16:17 seriously 19:16:23 I guess you could say that there could be elements of S in neither S nor S - T 19:16:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:16:33 esolang_1234, can you upload a screenshot of the "this page is blocked" page? 19:16:36 i was like o__o the whole time 19:16:42 Taneb: it'll probably be a boring standard thing 19:16:48 I doubt anyone's gone out of their way to block esolangs.org specifically 19:16:52 elliott, at least there may be an email 19:16:54 and by that i mean i felt like an inverse skateboard 19:16:56 it's not exactly a massively popular timewasting site... 19:17:00 because it was so absurd 19:17:01 Taneb: they probably consider the block valid 19:17:14 Taneb: No, I don't use file uploading things. 19:17:36 esolang_1234, does the block page list an email address? 19:17:50 No. 19:17:56 At least I don't think so 19:18:13 I remember once the recent pages page of the wiki was blocked in my school 19:18:16 proxy or firewall? 19:18:16 For gambling reasons 19:18:24 We do a lot of gambling on Esolang. 19:18:33 http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff508/Taneb/ohno.png 19:18:37 Good times 19:18:43 Did you call the number? 19:19:01 Yes, the office was closed 19:19:02 Man, remember when the c in Special:Recentchanges was lowercase? 19:19:02 "i bet you $50 the next esolang is a brainfuck derivative" 19:19:10 Good times. 19:20:13 shachaf: Have you been sending me /msgs? 19:20:25 what properties would a language need so that the cost of execution of a program can be calculated 19:20:29 was esolang_1234 going to up a lang or what was this about, i haven't really been reading any of the lines? 19:20:34 total cost 19:20:45 Sort of. 19:20:57 It was based on wires and logic gates. 19:21:01 Now don't take my idea. 19:21:13 esolang_1234, been done at least twice? 19:21:15 :D 19:21:43 Taneb: three times at leadt 19:21:46 does "don't take my idea" imply "and that's it", because it sounds like it 19:21:59 esolang_1234: but that's what one of My Name is Johny, What the F**K?'s designs was basde on too! 19:22:03 you might want to check out WireWorld, btw 19:22:03 Taneb: I don't think so. 19:22:11 which we don't have an article on; what an injustice 19:22:27 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Sir._Cut for one 19:22:28 or do you have a CRAZY twist 19:22:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Noit_o%27_mnain_worb too, perhaps 19:22:34 does your language have ordinals 19:23:01 Well, mines more like (-1,-1)Input (0,0)Xor (1,1)Out (-1,-1)>(0,0) (0,0)>(1,1) 19:23:06 Wait 19:23:10 Change the Xor to not 19:23:17 Finished Portal 1. It was very good but quite short. 19:23:29 And that would be a sort of bitinvertercat 19:24:44 k 19:25:13 Basicly, signals travel on wires, and get input at STDin and output at SDTout 19:25:19 *STD 19:26:16 Not=If no sig, sig Or=If at least one sig, sig And=If all possible sigs, sig (like vNCA) Xor=If sum of sigs is odd, sig 19:26:57 yeah i got it 19:27:03 Probably TC 19:27:24 and if you make a page for it, (IDK if you don't) can you name it LogicWire? 19:27:26 shachaf: Oh, no. 19:27:41 Lol, like anyone would want to make a page for it. 19:28:15 how much do you know about logical circuits? 19:28:30 Not much. Just Xor, and, flipflop... 19:28:33 esolang_1234: why do you think it is TC? 19:28:36 Idk 19:28:42 esolang_1234: does it have any kind of looping? 19:28:43 Random thought. 19:28:48 flip flop is already something 19:28:50 can you write a program that runs forever, for instance? 19:28:58 Each sig affects the logic gates it points too. 19:29:01 esola 19:29:02 elliott: 19:29:05 Yes. 19:29:14 if there's a concept of time, then this is probably tc 19:29:29 Just make a loop with Or gates, and connect one of the wires to STDout. 19:29:35 in the sense that a periodic infinite configuration can do arbitrary computation 19:29:36 OK 19:29:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight stupid sleep cycles). 19:29:47 esolang_1234: is is possible to use unlimited amount of memory 19:29:54 Should be. 19:29:59 ? 19:30:27 Well, I guess you should be able to define unlimited wires. 19:30:50 (0,0)Xor (0,1)And... (0,2)>(3,5)Sig 19:30:56 And so on. 19:31:52 I guess (x,y) defines a gate at x,y 19:31:57 esolang_1234: unlimited as in unbouded storage machine's tape, not as in LBA's tape 19:32:05 Oh. 19:32:09 Hadn't thought about that :( 19:32:17 Well, finite state automaton? 19:32:52 esolang_1234: seems like it 19:33:43 if you allow a way to describe infinite configurations, this will be more interesting though. 19:33:58 Hmm... Possible. 19:34:06 "Crowd of people gathered on a street to watch two criminals being hanged to death, which was like the 19th century equivalent of a reality show (but somehow more tasteful)." 19:34:20 it's not really something that's been explored much 19:34:32 Maybe a "Copy (x,y)...(x,y)>(a,b) 15 Units" 19:34:48 And you might be able to make a TC 19:34:55 I mean TM :P 19:34:56 you mean at runtime? 19:35:45 I don't know. I never thought this would be so confusing. Well, I guess it doesn't have to be TC 19:36:16 see if, once the program has been written, there's a limit on the amount of states where it can be during the run of the program, then you cannot have TCness with most definitions. 19:36:16 And making a copy command will make the interpreter solve the halting problem. 19:37:21 Of course, makeing a build "gate" might make it TC, but it would be TC (too complicated). 19:37:59 because if you can bound the maximal number of states the program can use before you start running it, then you can, algorithmically, decide whether it halts or not (or whether it will behave in a certain way) 19:38:27 i don't really get what you're saying 19:38:35 why would the interpreter need to solve the halting problem? 19:38:38 esolang_1234: how does adding copy command make interpreter solve halting problem? 19:39:22 IDK. I was thinking about mutiple TMs interacting. 19:39:49 okay i was thinking about butterflies when i wrote mine 19:40:07 ...Maybe make a butterfly sim program? 19:40:11 ooh 19:40:21 they are very pretty 19:40:30 but "LogicWire" isn't TC, so its probably not possible. 19:40:59 And you might not be able to see them. Remember the first GoL metacell? 19:41:14 i don't know what logicwire is 19:41:26 might not be able to see what? 19:41:30 My hypothetical lang. 19:41:34 i remember _a_ gol metacell 19:41:44 or rather, i remember that one exists 19:41:46 okay 19:41:48 right 19:41:55 conwaylife.com is blocked, so I can't link it :( 19:42:12 Anyway, I have to leave in a few minutes. 19:42:13 you just did 19:42:24 Not that, the actual page in the wiki :P 19:43:18 well right, i found it 19:43:31 i didn't know about this wiki, should probably look at it :D 19:43:41 500x500 metacell or something 19:43:43 yeah 19:44:15 http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Topology okay this wiki sucks 19:44:16 The only indicator is a block or something. 19:44:32 (topology is the main tool in the study of cellular automata) 19:44:56 and that's not even about the topology that's used 19:45:00 Well, I have to leave. 19:45:04 yes 19:45:07 oklopol: lifewiki is mainly focused on documenting the patterns 19:45:08 *byes 19:45:17 yeah i guessed 19:45:28 still worth taking a glance at 19:45:31 i like patterns 19:46:15 oklopol: Did you see http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Gemini when it came out? 19:46:17 It's quite impressive. 19:46:27 It's a replicator-based spaceship. 19:46:43 (The first replicating pattern constructed; it replicates itself and then deletes the praent.) 19:46:45 *parent 19:47:01 elliott: still, having a topology page like that is like if conservapedia had a page on god that said "God is a concept in theoretical religion theory." 19:47:16 except topology is so much better than god 19:47:31 "God is the sovereign creator and eternal ruler of all things and beings that exist, whether in the physical universe or in the spiritual realm (Heaven). Not only is God the creator and ruler of the things and beings within those two realms, but he is also the creator of the realms themselves. God created the physical universe, and before he acted in this creation, the universe did not exist. Likewise God did with the spiritual realm. 19:47:31 " 19:47:33 Thanks, Conservapedia. 19:47:58 Thonservapedia. 19:48:13 well pretty much what you expected, no? 19:49:11 -!- esolang_1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:49:30 that paragraph reads like legal boilerplate 19:50:27 yeah. I still can't believe conservapedia is not a joke 19:50:42 yeah unlike those many other paragraphs on god that mean something 19:50:45 i assume at least large parts of it are 19:51:02 There are really only about six serious editors of Conservapedia. 19:51:24 But they're all sufficiently mad that it's highly likely they consider many satirical edits legitimate. 19:51:40 http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.6902 have you seen this 19:51:42 do they still have the threat to sue anyone who vandalises it? 19:51:47 i thought a lot of it was written by homeschooled christian kids 19:51:52 ais523: I think so, yes. 19:52:01 Did you know Conservapedia disproved relativity as liberal? 19:52:06 oklopol: lolwut 19:52:06 http://conservapedia.com/E%3Dmc² 19:52:08 i love arxiv so much 19:52:14 E=mc² is a meaningless, almost nonsensical, statement that purports to relate all matter to light.[1] In fact, no theory has successfully unified the laws governing mass (i.e., gravity) with the laws governing light (i.e., electromagnetism), and numerous attempts to derive E=mc² in general from first principles have failed.[2] Political pressure, however, has since made it impossible for anyone pursuing an academic career in science 19:52:14 to even question the validity of this nonsensical equation. Simply put, E=mc² is liberal claptrap[3] . 19:52:19 elliott: relativity = moral relativsm 19:52:22 (That's not trolling, most of that was actually written by Schlafly.) 19:52:29 It continues: "Biblical Scientific Foreknowledge predicts that a unified theory of all the laws of physics is impossible, because light and matter were created at different times, in different ways, as described in the Book of Genesis." 19:52:31 the author is not a crackpot btw 19:52:39 See also: http://conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity 19:52:50 "In Genesis 1:6-8, we are told that one of God's first creations was a firmament in the heavens. This likely refers to the creation of the luminiferous aether." 19:53:28 kmc: "Comments:Please note that the publication date is April 1st 2012" 19:53:40 I wonder if arxiv adds that automatically. 19:54:15 also see keywords. 19:54:27 Really, Conservapedia would be much less entertaining if it was just Fox News: the wiki. 19:54:34 It's far worse than that in reality. 19:54:37 also it's very tastefully done, i liked it 19:54:49 oklopol: Which keywords? 19:54:51 also read conservapedia's articles on evolution, atheism and socialism 19:54:56 in the pdf 19:55:20 in the god article 19:55:43 nortti: No, those are all the boring, tame stuff. 19:56:39 does it at least define atheist as someone who worships the devil 19:57:26 the demon god Atheor 19:57:27 "Atheism, as defined by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and other philosophy reference works, is the denial of the existence of God.[2][3][4]" *yawn* 19:57:39 anyway I think quoting conservapedia is poor form 19:57:44 trolling by proxy 19:57:45 they're being wrong wrong. 19:58:15 kmc: Most trolls are not nearly as entertaining as Conservapedia. 19:58:28 Especially IRC trolls. I'm upping the standards! 20:00:46 playing with ordinals feels so wrong... and yet somehow so, so right. 20:01:12 http://conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_obesity Okay, I'll give them credit for this title. 20:01:23 Wow, it's 49 sections long. 20:01:23 xD 20:01:35 "Stephen Fry is a homosexual and an atheist." Good caption. 20:02:44 I feel like an outlier 20:03:01 I still don't quite understand their point, though 20:03:16 that's like http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:SIR_448_at_Great_Kills_Station.jpg&oldid=61691747 20:03:35 "Their irrational closed-mindedness against the Bible obstructs the advancement of science ." 20:03:46 kmc: :D 20:04:01 "accurate but does not describe picture" 20:04:39 http://conservapedia.com/Biblical_Scientific_Foreknowledge 20:09:56 http://conservapedia.com/Feminist "often condemn the God-Given order of gender roles, as laid out in the Holy Bible" :D 20:11:04 http://conservapedia.com/Essay:_Penn_Jillette%27s_walrus_slide_vs._thin_Indian_Christian_lady_dancers Nobody tell me what this article is about, I want to enjoy it solely based on the title. 20:12:00 holy shit these guys are retardedaiosdjfoasdjfoasdjfklasdjl;f 20:12:06 i will explode. 20:12:24 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:44 Unlike atheists, Christians have a great many songs including dance music. 20:14:05 okay the walrus side article is perhaps the most insane thing i've ever seen. 20:14:06 ever 20:17:14 seriously, that has to be a joke 20:19:11 http://conservapedia.com/Global_warming 20:20:37 hm, http://conservapedia.com/Special:Statistics 20:22:03 rszeno: does that have a conservative bias too? 20:22:36 i was thinking that at least are not so many, :) 20:23:32 ais523: don't you know that there is no conservative bias. Jusl liberal lies and conservative truth!!!!!!111!!!! 20:24:15 http://codepad.org/b2wsEtbA 20:24:26 ^- Would that stand a chance being turing-complete? 20:24:30 remember me about comunist party from my country, small amount of people knowing everything, :) 20:27:22 rszeno: whete do you live? 20:27:51 romania, :) is not communist anymore but it was 20:28:22 imo is no difference between fanatics 20:28:43 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:28:55 rszeno: I don't undesrtand your sentencw 20:28:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:29:41 i od ndurestnad emth 20:30:32 communist or religious like the ones from conservapedia.com when they are so sure they are right, is only fanatism 20:31:20 rszeno: well actually romania has never been communist. It has only been "communist" (read: dictatorship) 20:31:46 rszeno: you are right 20:33:20 -!- qfr has quit (Changing host). 20:33:20 -!- qfr has joined. 20:34:26 mroman_: It sounds like one-bit-cell brainfuck maps rather directly to the L, U, E, [, ], P, I instructions. (You'd stay in the leftmost branch all the time.) 20:34:38 mroman_: i don't see why it couldn't be possible 20:34:54 mroman_: Oh, I didn't read E properly. But anyway if you can flip from 1 to 0. 20:35:38 oh there was a loop instruction, i thought that was just a stub 20:37:21 -!- elliottasdf has joined. 20:37:27 hi elliottasdf 20:37:33 hi oklopolasdf 20:37:44 i'm not asdf. 20:37:52 only you are asdf. 20:38:36 Don't tell me who is and isn't asdf. 20:38:46 helliottaoeu 20:39:22 i will tell whatever i like whenever i like who is and isn't and when is and when is not someone asdf or not asdf. 20:40:17 oklopol: Fuck you. I'm king of the asdfs. 20:40:26 fuck U 20:40:30 fuck 20:40:31 U 20:40:35 ion: Play Crawl for my amusement. 20:40:44 seriously, dudde, take a fuck and U. 20:40:51 yeah ion it's func 20:41:01 *fun 20:41:17 fizzie: You can flip depending on your location and the value under it, yes. 20:41:56 I’m too tired. 20:42:05 I’ve been awake for 22 hours. 20:42:13 ion: Perfect Crawl-playing mode 20:42:17 *mode. 20:42:18 i've been awake more than 13 20:42:24 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:42:33 I've been awake 6. 20:42:37 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 20:43:05 I've been awake 14 20:43:14 well that's good too, don't believe people if they call you an ass-dancing faggot because you've been awake only 6 20:43:19 hm yes. 20:43:25 -!- elliottasdf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:35 would be cool if your memory was just your location 20:43:44 so some kinda stack machine 20:43:46 by setting the left to 1 you can always flip the right. 20:43:55 then again this may be just due to my tree-walking automata fetish 20:44:06 Brainfucks > would probably be then R 20:44:11 and < would be U 20:45:07 Flipping then must be 20:45:39 LEEE to set up left to 1 and not flipping the right. 20:45:44 then E again to actually flip 20:45:45 a two-headed tree automaton can simulate a binary tape which i guess is kind of fun 20:45:48 so LEEEE should work. 20:46:40 so it is one-bit-brainfuck "compatible" yes :( 20:46:56 I don't like languages too easaly compatible to brainfuck variants. 20:47:00 *easily 20:47:01 -!- shachaf has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 20:47:01 -!- jix has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 20:47:04 -!- myndzi has quit (Excess Flood). 20:47:08 so back the drawing board :) 20:47:14 I want something with trees. 20:47:40 -!- myndzi has joined. 20:48:58 -!- derdon has joined. 20:49:12 -!- elliott has joined. 20:49:14 oklopol: Location is memory. That means: The nodes contain no actually data? 20:49:19 *actual 20:49:33 My typo rate is awfully high tonight. 20:50:16 yeah 20:50:29 just a full infinite binary tree 20:50:43 a finite set of states and two heads 20:50:56 two heads? 20:51:07 yeah, otherwise you just have a stack 20:51:19 Yes. 20:51:39 Then you have two stacks? 20:52:01 yeah, which is as good as a tape (although way nicer to program for) 20:52:26 so, LRU (head 0) and lru (head 1) 20:52:43 then again it's enough to have two heads and a unary tree. 20:52:59 unary = 1? 20:53:16 So it's just a comman tape. 20:53:17 yeah 20:53:19 *common 20:53:22 yeah without data 20:53:23 No fun :( 20:53:28 oh. 20:53:39 nested stacks? 20:53:42 "without data" fun is coming back. 20:53:43 so just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_machine 20:53:48 -!- itidus22 has joined. 20:55:14 but if you have multiple heads on a dataless binary tree with only local interactions, you might get something fun 20:55:56 (my first two-head suggestion was the usual multiheaded automaton where you can read both heads at all times and change a global state based on that info) 20:56:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:56:15 (here the local data is just whether you're in a left or a right child) 20:56:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:56:37 `? itidus12 20:56:38 Hm. 20:56:42 itidus12? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:56:50 `? itidus22 20:56:54 itidus22? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:57:05 -!- Deewiant_ has joined. 20:57:20 If I have LRU and an H, which creates a new head at the root node. 20:57:21 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:57:23 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:57:26 so 20:57:37 LHR would mean 20:57:44 Head[0]: Left 20:57:53 Head[1]: Right 20:57:58 Head[0]: Right 20:59:00 and some conditional instructions based on the location of the heads. 20:59:39 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:59:46 yeah but then that's just a rather direct n-stacks thing 20:59:46 That might in fact be fun. 21:00:13 Too much Crawl? I interpreted “:c” someone said as “a book, a centaur”. 21:00:36 the heads should be running different programs, and only seeing each other when close enough 21:00:45 or something 21:01:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 21:01:14 hm. 21:01:16 ic. 21:02:01 -!- elliott has joined. 21:02:14 Ok. 21:03:12 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:03:45 I have an idea, then. 21:04:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:08:41 ais523: welcome to washington dc! 21:11:38 -!- trout has quit (Excess Flood). 21:14:04 -!- nortti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:14:12 -!- variable has joined. 21:14:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:15:02 -!- nortti has joined. 21:17:40 Gregor: I forget, did you have an opinion on the quote identifier issue? 21:18:34 Apr 28 11:12:28 " is the best identifier. 21:18:50 ...not that kind of quote identifier. 21:21:40 what kind of quote insentifier then? 21:21:53 Insentifier :D 21:22:00 `quote 21:22:02 Those kinds. 21:22:03 552) game where you flip a coin but it's really really big 21:22:38 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 21:23:40 ais523: happy 5:23 EDT. 21:23:47 `welcome tswett 21:23:49 tswett: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:24:04 tswett: heh, I get amused when I look at the clock and it's a numerically significant time (sometimes 5:23) 21:24:31 ais523: Were you born at 05:23? 21:24:41 I don't know 21:24:52 can't remember, it was so long ago… 21:24:59 don't think I could read then either 21:25:03 So you *might* have been born at 05:23? 21:25:12 -!- variable has joined. 21:25:15 I might have been born at 05:23. 21:25:20 I *am* 05:23. 21:25:21 ais523: you don't have a watch that says DIE every wednesday just after midnight, i assume 21:25:25 I know it was early in the morning. 21:25:35 -!- rvchangue has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:25:38 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:25:45 oerjan: wat 21:25:54 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:26:00 oerjan: I don't have a wristwatch at all, nor a functioning pocketwatch (and arguably not a nonfunctioning pocketwatch depending on your definition) 21:26:50 elliott: it's basically the first three letters of the weekday for the previous day, in german. 21:27:01 -!- cheater_ has joined. 21:27:08 oerjan: wait, I recall you saying something like this before. 21:27:14 yes, i did. 21:27:32 is this a true story 21:27:37 yes 21:27:56 can i have your watch 21:28:05 right now it says WED. in a few hours it will briefly say MIT. 21:28:19 and no. 21:30:05 the brand is lorus, fwiw. 21:31:04 So why does it show those, exactly? 21:32:36 presumably it has both english and german weekday markings, and every day after midnight it briefly passes over the language you haven't adjusted it for 21:33:35 as it rotates the ring with the markings 21:35:13 Ah. 21:36:58 -!- nortti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:53 -!- nortti has joined. 21:38:53 oerjan: are you two hours east of me, then? 21:39:07 or are you just anticipating it to happen at the end of tohour? 21:39:10 one, i assume 21:39:35 anticipating, and it's not _exactly_ at midnight. 21:39:54 and by "briefly", i mean possibly a couple of hours. 21:40:09 @time ais523 21:40:10 Local time for ais523 is Wed May 9 22:40:10 2012 21:40:11 @time oerjan 21:40:11 Local time for oerjan is Wed May 9 23:40:11 2012 21:40:23 I was assuming one too 21:40:24 i see the date number has already started changing 21:40:34 scary 21:40:42 how do clocks work anyway 21:40:53 i think that depends on the clock, elliott 21:41:04 how does depending work 21:41:49 presumably it has a quartz crystal or something, but then translates that into mechanical movement. 21:43:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:43:32 well, digital clocks work the same way computers do 21:43:38 completely mechanical clocks use gears 21:43:50 but I imagine they're commonly somewhere in between nowadays 21:44:52 it has a battery, at least. 21:45:42 i was assuming it was clockwork for some reason 21:45:44 hmm, do wrist-sundials actually exist? 21:45:54 can you get clockwork watches 21:46:09 elliott: yes, they exist, although I'm not sure how popular they are nowadays 21:46:14 you have to wind them up every now and then 21:46:17 googling just turns up some stupid steampunk crap 21:46:21 ais523: i mean 21:46:23 ones that go on your wrist 21:46:48 elliott: yes 21:46:57 all watches were like that once 21:47:00 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Wrist_Watch_WWI.jpg wow way to make it fucking impossible to read with a metal thing 21:47:02 they're not so popular nowadays, though 21:47:22 ais523: YES THANK YOU FOR THE HISTORY LESSON but pocket watches were what used to be popular aiui 21:47:39 and i didn't know if anyone made wristwatches before we figured out how to power them with fire 21:47:44 elliott: within my lifetime once 21:47:49 not entirely sure if within yours 21:47:56 once what? 21:48:01 -!- rvchangue has joined. 21:48:09 "all watches were like that once" 21:48:12 well, maybe not /all/ of them 21:48:17 but they were still pretty common when I was young 21:48:17 what, clockwork? 21:48:19 yes 21:48:59 elliott: luckily there are some older people around 21:49:20 40 years ago is the right timeframe for mechanical wristwatches dominating, it seems 21:49:25 I just asked 21:49:50 "Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea." 21:52:21 anyway ais523 is old 21:52:24 not as old as oerjan though 21:52:42 the watches probably weren't available when I was young, come to think of it 21:52:49 which watches 21:52:57 but 40-year-old watches were pretty expensive when new, and also pretty durable 21:53:00 so there are some around 21:53:09 and purely mechanical watches, isn't that what this discussion is about? 21:53:16 ah 21:53:41 * oerjan vaguely recalls having hand-cranked watches at one time 21:54:02 i have a pocket watch and few wirst watches, all mechanical 21:54:48 to be honest i dislike all this digital stuff, :) 21:54:51 pls tell me you use a mechanical typewriter w/ your computer too 21:55:16 i would like, :) 21:56:04 I've seen mechanical typewriters, but never used one 21:56:11 * oerjan had a mechanical typewriter once 21:56:24 I've used a mostly mechanical typewriter that had some electronics in, you typed a line at a time then it printed it out 21:56:32 i start programing with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_card, :) 21:56:36 sort-of like typewriter keyboard -> microcontroller -> daisywheel printer 21:56:43 http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/freedom.jpg 21:56:54 rszeno: my parents were programming on punch cards when I was very young, they gave me some (unpunched) ones to play with 21:57:08 If only Babbage had built the Analytical Engine, then rszeno's dream would have been realised. 21:57:39 ais523: You... played with punchcards? 21:57:42 They're not very exciting. 21:57:56 I used to post them through chairs, apparently 21:58:09 very young children are amused by things like that, apparently even if they're me 21:58:26 This explains a lot. 21:58:33 Though I'm not sure what. 21:59:14 elliott: that comment you just made /also/ explains a lot and I'm not sure what 21:59:23 Oh no. 21:59:29 hm, you hate past-elliott, right? 21:59:44 he was an asshole 21:59:50 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 22:00:13 He's not nearly as bad as present coppro. 22:00:19 Or President coppro. 22:00:47 O_O 22:00:55 I don't really hate past-ais523 22:00:58 they were pretty naive 22:01:08 but not really hateable 22:01:37 coppro: If you become President, I'm leaving America forever. 22:03:23 coppro: By the way, please make Agora not boring. 22:03:38 elliott: but but 22:04:06 Do it. 22:04:06 Now. 22:04:09 You may enlist ais523 for help. 22:04:31 elliott: but you aren't in America? 22:04:40 you'd have to go there first in order to leave it again 22:04:44 ais523: he'll go to America just so that he can... yeah 22:04:45 * ais523 refuses to travel to the US 22:05:04 ais523: he can even do it in style and get deported 22:05:15 purpose of trip: "deportation" 22:05:19 actually, I dislike international travel a lot, it seems so heavily unnecessary 22:05:27 abroad is depressingly similar to nearby 22:05:28 ais523: by which you mean overseas? 22:05:35 or all international travel? 22:05:40 coppro: I live on an island, there's no distinction 22:05:48 you know what I mean 22:05:55 no I don't 22:06:01 do you include Europe? 22:06:11 I include everywhere non-UK 22:06:14 ok 22:06:18 dislike travelling much even within the UK 22:06:34 colocation is key 22:06:38 I'm happier if I'm within walking distance of home (that is, I /could/ walk it, not necessarily that I actually /do/) 22:06:39 travelling is sometimes needed for colocation 22:06:47 what do you mean by colocation, here? 22:06:57 being in the same place as someone else 22:07:08 isn't that what the Internet's for? 22:08:42 it's not the same 22:08:58 there's a reason conferences generally haven't gone digital 22:09:42 I haven't found it yet 22:09:53 going off to Canada for a conference disrupted my life for several weeks 22:09:53 for starters, you can't chat over dinner 22:10:05 overseas is nasty due to the really large travel time 22:10:20 I couldn't chat there over dinner either, almost bankrupted by the first one 22:10:26 ouch 22:10:27 and then spent most of my mealtimes eating at Subway 22:10:53 I was too moral to claim it on expenses because I would have needed to eat anyway 22:11:56 academic expenses are pretty much all a scam, apart from travel (and accommodation if that's necessary, e.g. when going abroad) 22:15:02 yeah, but the standard is that you get to claim them 22:15:39 yet as a general rule, eating out isn't that much more costly than cooking yourself if you factor the time in 22:16:25 well, I eat "out" at lunch pretty much every day, although it's typically university canteen or supermarket ready meal 22:18:08 yeah 22:19:54 back 22:20:31 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 22:20:35 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:21:36 ais523: I assign you to cleaning up [[list of ideas]] 22:21:48 elliott: I assign zzo38 to cleaning it up 22:22:00 thanks 22:23:46 I'm tempted to ask for advice on what Star Trek episode me and my gf should watch 22:23:55 (Not enough details in prior statement for actual advice) 22:26:31 ais523: hi, welcome to Asia 22:26:58 Sgeo: there are a few really really infamous ones 22:27:37 Well, full details: She loves the Stargate franchise, but I don't think has seen any Star Trek, so what would appeal to her 22:27:50 Although we're probably going to watch some SG-1 now 22:28:42 wait, Sgeo has an actual girlfriend now? 22:28:54 Yes 22:29:35 same person you were alluding to before, or someone else? 22:30:17 When was the alluding? 22:30:37 I can't remember 22:30:42 `pastlog alluded to 22:31:13 I think it was "alluded-to". 22:31:15 No output. 22:31:16 If it was earlier ago than March, no 22:31:31 `pastlog Sgeo.*alluded to 22:31:44 i think it was years ago 22:31:47 2010-12-21.txt:21:58:59: Sgeo, I assume he assumed it was Alluded To Female. 22:32:02 So no 22:32:05 Sgeo: it was already a meme in december 2010, apparently 22:32:06 and OK 22:32:44 ais523: how is to create javascript in xml??? 22:33:05 elliott: use a JS to XSLT compiler, I guess 22:34:30 ais523: how to enable PHP with ajax and compiling 22:35:37 bleh, can't think of a good and sufficiently facetious answer 22:36:08 ais523: how to develop facebook with visual studio node.js 22:36:27 elliott: first you need to go work at facebook 22:36:39 ok 22:36:44 how to work for facebook 22:37:07 they have competitions every now and then, facebook hacker cup 22:37:11 you can search for it on bing 22:37:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:37:27 how to search on bing 22:38:02 how to breathe :( 22:38:38 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:40:08 help 22:41:13 how to receive help 22:43:47 , 22:48:06 how to solve problems 22:48:13 how to do things 22:49:44 how to surprise sheep 22:50:35 show them a wolf 22:50:53 how to ask how to 22:51:01 Oh, elliott already made that joke 22:51:42 how to wolf 22:51:53 sheep 23:00:07 -!- davidwerecat has quit (Quit: Quitting...). 23:01:27 ? 23:01:49 hi 23:01:56 hello 23:02:08 it appers that I quit when I login... 23:02:19 davidwerecat =/= david_werecat 23:03:05 probably that was my shadowbot then 23:03:34 so, how are things today on #esoteric? 23:04:59 #esotericy 23:06:37 even more so than http://esolangs.org/wiki/? ? 23:08:20 ALWAYS 23:15:20 the wiki is nothing like #esoteric 23:16:27 judging by the logs, looks a lot more social in here 23:17:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:18:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:19:44 the logs are all fabricated by Gregor 23:21:43 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:22:08 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:26:34 It's a lot of work fabricating all those logs, but it helps me practice for my erotic fan fictions. 23:26:57 Your erotic fan fictions read like IRC logs? 23:27:39 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:28:53 if erotic fan fiction can be written like IRC, then I might still have some hope... 23:29:28 Everyone knows the money is in erotic fan fiction. 23:29:43 Gregor: P.S. "fictions" reads so awkwardly. 23:29:51 Interestingly "fanfics" doesn't. 23:31:55 -!- rszeno has left. 23:32:00 wait, then where do eroge come in? 23:33:14 I defer to Gregor. He's the expert. 23:33:32 -!- rodgort has joined. 23:34:23 -!- monqy has joined. 23:34:50 He sat, nonchalantly, one finger running unthinkingly but tantalizingly up and down his strong, toned thigh. It wasn't unusual for oklopol to be here, waiting for elliott's arrival, but something was different today. oklopol was not typically nude. 23:35:03 thanks Gregor 23:35:12 * Gregor takes a bow. 23:35:26 i think that line is probably illegal in several countries 23:36:33 oh dear 23:36:33 monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 23:36:36 oh dear 23:36:46 hello monqy 23:37:02 hi 23:37:20 hello monqy 23:37:37 good memos 23:37:39 thanks lots 23:38:09 Does someone stolen your clothing? 23:38:14 yes 23:38:28 monqy: i knew you'd be really sad if you didn't get updated on all the best #esoteric 23:39:16 Do you think this is a correct way? getBlocks n = sortBy (on antispecificness fst) . (>>= \(Declaration x y z) -> (y, z) <$ guard (n == x)); 23:39:42 monqy: are you alive 23:39:57 no 23:40:09 im nothing but a jerk's ghost 23:40:26 but 23:40:28 that's me :'( 23:40:28 monqy: How can you type on computer while dead, then? 23:40:41 teletype 23:41:32 Is it a crime for dead people to act as if still alive? 23:42:20 yes im in ghost jail 23:42:32 me too 23:42:33 OK 23:42:42 monqy: you missed a great tv 23:43:01 someone tried to escape purgy by running up from D:4 and exiting the dungeon 23:43:14 but they died on the upstairs leading out of the dungeon 23:43:37 same outcome, really 23:43:43 Are some of the stairs broken? 23:43:51 s/stairs/steps/ 23:44:04 no purgy just hit them 23:44:08 in ancient crawl you got more points for exiting alive but nowadays it's the same as any other death 23:44:19 monqy: also someone else committed very slow suicide to a killer bee larva! 23:44:20 very 23:44:21 very slow 23:44:30 gotta keep monqy updated 23:44:51 im updated 23:45:19 16:44:19 < CIA-97> elliptic * rfea3bfef4d52 /crawl-ref/source/aptitudes.h: Improve felid UC and Fighting apts. 23:45:25 felids "un nefred" 23:45:46 monqy: the joke is that elliptic is playing a felid right now 23:45:54 being a dev reasons 23:46:28 16:46:17 < CIA-97> kilobyte * rabd22f24f12b /crawl-ref/source/aptitudes.h: Nerf felid Summ aptitude: +1 -> 0 23:46:32 felids "re nerfreD" 23:46:35 i was just about to quote that 23:47:07 by tomorrow felids will have a completely different set of aptitudes but be no better or worse 23:47:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:49 00:51 anyone have thoughts on my jackal sprites? http://i.imgur.com/xxKOi.png 23:52:16 which are old and which are new help 23:52:30 you also missed: that guy defending tiles! 23:53:07 im not even going to pay attention 23:53:15 tiles arguments are awful 23:53:16 no that was ages ago 23:53:19 oh 23:53:29 it didn't even become an argument everyone just snickered 2012-05-10: 00:02:48 "Getting element out of IO in Haskell" cries 00:03:57 :( 00:07:24 monqy: note: you may die 00:07:41 but im already dead! 00:07:49 even ghosts can die 00:07:53 D: 00:07:57 rip 00:08:00 rip 00:08:03 rip rip: the double rip (twice) 00:25:24 monqy: you may enjoy this tv 00:25:44 hmm 00:25:45 maybe not 00:26:06 could be amsuing 00:26:29 naga of chei "always amusing" 00:26:33 im just waiting for the monster moat 00:27:39 elliott: Oh, no? 00:28:12 `addqoute was that chaos spawn para or just chei 00:28:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addqoute: not found 00:28:18 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 00:28:48 `qoute 00:28:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qoute: not found 00:29:00 that should go in the chei learndb entry "monqy wisdom for all" 00:29:24 do you know how to use henzells learndb 00:29:34 i 00:29:35 sort of 00:29:35 elliott: ? 00:29:40 i see people do it every now and then and im like 00:29:43 im going to remember that 00:29:45 and then i forget 00:29:56 !learn add entryname entrytext 00:29:58 (to add) 00:30:09 oh im not going to add things im just going to tell other people to 00:30:12 oh 00:30:24 wait ill do it 00:30:26 IN SECRET 00:30:32 theres no secrets 00:30:48 oh, it doesn't listen in /msg 00:30:54 that's terrible! 00:30:56 it listens to queries but 00:30:57 not to adds 00:31:01 or edits 00:31:03 or anything like that 00:31:14 i know it listens to queries but 00:31:14 yeah 00:31:18 ~awful~ 00:31:33 well i guess ##crawl-dev is the next best thing to private "laughs" 00:31:35 also why are they ## 00:31:39 theyre kind of official arent they 00:32:44 oh well 00:32:48 monqy's wisdom will die with him 00:33:13 you can add it if you want!!! 00:33:26 hell no!!!! i never "do" anyhting 00:33:29 or you can coerce shachaf or Sgeo into adding it 00:33:30 why dont YOU add it?!???! 00:33:54 or get like 00:33:58 itidus to join and add it 00:34:13 thats the weak way out 00:36:02 im sorry monqy but your wisdom just 00:36:05 ~isn't~good~enough~ 00:36:08 :'( 00:37:48 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:38:44 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:39:55 @time monqy 00:39:57 Local time for monqy is Wed May 9 17:39:56 2012 00:40:01 monqy: happy 17:39:56 00:40:47 happy 00:42:00 monqy: help. 00:42:08 how ? 00:42:15 : ( 00:46:31 monqy: hi 00:47:03 hellllllo 00:47:59 monqy: ##crawl dissed heavy armour on ghoule earlier :'( 00:48:28 oh no 00:48:31 what did it do 00:48:31 (by ##crawl i mean one person in ##crawl iirc) 00:48:37 oh 00:48:44 heavy armour ghoule was fine ime 00:49:01 ie i tried heavy armour ghoule and i won it 00:49:02 monqy: they were all "you [not me -Ed] know how you die really quick in melee?? thats because the heavy armour makes your uc rly slowe!!!" 00:49:15 and the ghoule was like ok im robe 00:49:37 it makes your uc slower but idk how slow it is 00:51:11 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5545 oh no 00:57:25 monqy: look at my gr8 D:1 00:57:29 it's like i'm playing monqys-craw 00:57:31 it's like i'm playing monqys-crawl 00:57:46 are you going to robe this time 00:57:53 i dont know ;_; should i 00:57:57 idk 00:58:06 maybe i could go medium armour??? 00:58:15 i just did heavey armour and no spelles on my ghoul win and it worked well 00:58:22 i dont want spelles 00:58:35 but 00:58:39 i also dont want to die 00:58:46 ask ##crawl for advic they're probably better on this fieeld than me 00:58:59 you are ##crawl 00:59:02 :( 01:00:32 -!- augur has joined. 01:00:41 leather armour > robe right 01:01:03 as far as ac goes yes 01:01:36 jessica r u even trying 01:02:25 *Jessica, *are you *trying? 01:02:29 proper englesh 01:02:30 *english 01:03:13 _j - a scroll labeled DOALID SOREAR 01:03:15 sorear :o 01:03:21 that's a person !!! 01:03:45 monqy: oh no i found plate 01:03:55 oh no 01:04:28 ps do you know what you mean by medium armour 01:04:39 sort of 01:04:41 i remember you 01:04:42 telling me once 01:05:00 what i primarily remember is: there is not much light armour but there is: some medium armour 01:05:03 you're probably aiming for like dragon armour 01:05:12 dragn 01:05:29 maybe ill just go heavy armour 01:05:39 you'l want to train dodg too if you're meddiu 01:05:53 less reason to train dodg in heavy 01:05:54 whats the medium progression 01:05:58 uhhhh 01:05:58 idk 01:06:03 you knew before!!! 01:06:06 `pastlog medium armour 01:06:12 there's a bunch of crap meddius 01:06:13 2012-05-02.txt:03:29:56: oh, medium armoures 01:06:17 `pastlog medium armour 01:06:25 2012-05-02.txt:03:29:56: oh, medium armoures 01:06:28 `pastlog medium armour 01:06:31 help 01:06:34 the common mediuem armoures are crepe 01:06:36 2012-05-02.txt:03:29:56: oh, medium armoures 01:06:38 help 01:06:42 or at least, pretty crepey 01:06:48 `url 2012-05-02 01:06:48 m 01:06:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/2012-05-02 01:06:51 im creped out 01:06:56 "you'll want dragon armoures" 01:06:57 `logurl 2012-05-02 01:07:00 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-05-02 01:07:01 "ask ##crawl" 01:07:20 03:29:33: "robe -> spells -> thanks for going light armoures" 01:07:22 you could use the crepe medium armoures in between now and dragon 01:07:25 oh you didn't actually tell me the medium armour progresion 01:07:35 monqy: yeah but ;_; 01:07:42 ring and plate right here!! so easy and comfortable 01:07:43 so AC 01:07:53 ask ##crawl i;v only done like 1 heavy and 1 medium ever 01:07:58 e v e r 01:08:03 what did you usllay do 01:08:23 most of my games where back when medium/heavy was a joke so i did mostly robes 01:08:36 i could go with robes but 01:08:36 also by ever i mean that's what i won 01:08:39 i've never seen 01:08:45 decent robes 01:08:46 only 01:08:47 crap 01:08:49 and 01:08:56 i have no idea how to not die without lots of nice armour protection 01:09:06 robe of resistance or an artefact robe that's better than ror is your target 01:09:10 robe of rF if that fails 01:09:26 but how do you avoid dying :( 01:09:29 dodg 01:09:33 also: spell 01:09:38 without spelle 01:09:44 ask ##carwl 01:09:49 help 01:09:53 ill just go 01:09:54 hevvys 01:10:10 note to self "theres plate on this level" 01:10:21 monqy: my main HEAVY PROBLEM is that i die before i get to train any armour skille 01:10:21 because 01:10:22 im training uc 01:10:37 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:10:37 then train armour!!! 01:10:53 but 01:10:54 then ill die 01:10:55 from 01:10:57 not being strong ;_; 01:11:01 ask ##crawl 01:11:04 also im 01:11:06 going to die now 01:11:16 you shouldn;t have charged into that situation 01:11:27 too l8 01:11:50 wow i 01:11:54 wasn't expecting not to die there 01:12:29 also if you have troubkle with ghmo: try something els??? 01:12:40 everything else has stupid hunger mechanics 01:12:46 mummies 01:12:53 gh not-mo 01:12:55 potions 01:13:07 the only feasible gh not-mo would be ghak wouldn't it 01:13:07 or 01:13:08 a spellcaster 01:13:10 and i dont like spelles 01:13:45 spriganes are herbivor so that means no chopeing up corpses or eacting chunsk at least 01:13:59 ehhh ok so 01:14:00 by dodg 01:14:00 but they have low hp and are spellcastey 01:14:01 do you mean 01:14:03 train dodging 01:14:04 or run away 01:14:08 are you going light 01:14:09 bceause if its just the former maybe ill go light armour 01:14:11 train dodging 01:14:13 ok 01:14:14 should i do that 01:14:16 straight away 01:14:19 idk 01:14:21 also 01:14:22 generally 01:14:27 you should be smarter about running away 01:14:31 yeah 01:14:32 i know 01:14:46 so if im going light 01:14:49 should i put on this robe or this leather armour 01:14:54 (before Ctrl+F robe) 01:14:54 who knows 01:16:18 i forget if stealth is worth anything 01:16:37 ask #c#corlewaj 01:16:51 ###carawl 01:17:09 one last question you wont answer!!! 01:17:11 the robe person also said 01:17:13 shields 01:17:15 is that dum 01:17:21 who is this robe person 01:17:24 i forget completely 01:17:29 i think i already talked about shields+uc 01:17:37 i forget what you talked about them in 01:17:46 in? idk what i was trying to say there 01:17:54 as in 01:17:57 i forgot what you said 01:18:01 basically they block your off-hand attack but uc is still really powerful with them and plus you get defense but usually i don't bother but other people do bother 01:18:10 i don't really have so much of an opinion there 01:18:33 ok 01:18:34 where i do have an opinion is on using a shield that blocks you from using a big good weapon but you're uc so your weapon is good even with a shield 01:18:45 (unless this all was nerfed") 01:18:47 does it matter how big the shield is 01:18:54 ie 01:18:57 large shield vs 01:19:09 whatever the shields i normalyl use are called 01:19:33 as in 01:19:34 does it matter for 01:19:36 uc 01:19:58 idk 01:20:03 thx 01:20:09 larger shields have bigger penalties but also bigger rewards 01:20:19 my 01:20:23 AC didn't go up 01:20:42 oh do i need to train shields or sth before i can wear something that big 01:22:12 thanks stairs 01:22:33 totally regretting light armour right now!!! 01:23:43 shields don't boost your ac 01:23:45 they boost your sh 01:24:51 oh 01:24:54 whats the difference :( 01:25:14 12/0 --> 7/23 01:25:17 sh is more like ev in that it completely blocks some attacks sometimes 01:25:25 eeeh that's a pretty bad EV penalty!!! but that's a high SH (or is it) 01:25:26 rather than reduces damage from attacks 01:25:41 elliott: well yeah you need a lot of sh to negate the penalties of a large shields 01:25:47 elliott: there's a learndb entr about iy 01:26:00 ill 01:26:02 drop this shield for now 01:26:03 get a smaller one 01:26:06 then come back to it later 01:28:32 wow killing things seems 01:28:37 much easier when im not wearing armour 01:28:55 come on sigmund you can do better than that robe 01:30:28 creys 01:30:59 "the downsides to not much AC" 01:34:47 monqy: do you wear cloaks with robes i forgete :( 01:35:26 cloaks go on top of body armoures (robe is body armoures) 01:35:29 so: yes 01:36:32 NICE CHEI ALTAR 01:36:38 -- guy who talks in upper case a lot 01:36:58 yes 01:37:09 why arent you worshop che 01:37:17 im preparing myself 01:37:24 for the responsibility 01:37:27 that being a cool chei pal requires 01:37:40 also by "chei" i mean "makhleb" 01:38:40 hi, crazy yiuf. 01:38:45 hazy yiuf. 01:38:48 uhhhh 01:39:04 Crazy Yiuf yells, "Key! Dawk disdain shoe." 01:39:04 Crazy Yiuf hits you with a quarterstaff of chaos! 01:39:04 * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * 01:39:05 You fade into invisibility! 01:39:07 thanks, crazy yiuf. 01:39:09 thazy yiuf. 01:39:29 maybe ill run to upstairs wiht invisibility power 01:39:32 or 01:39:34 just hit him again 01:39:52 "both could either survive you or get you kield" 01:40:41 how did he know where i was going!!! 01:41:28 "ah well" 01:41:31 that's how invisiblity in crawl works 01:41:35 "totally unfair" 01:41:36 monqy: what 01:41:39 that's terrible 01:41:41 yeah 01:41:48 my roguelike's design prevents that completely 01:41:59 my roguelikes deign dosnt have invnisisbiilbity 01:42:05 bc invisbibislibty sucks 01:42:32 "everything sucks" -- monqy 01:42:45 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 01:43:29 its ok monqy i agree 01:43:33 everything sucks :'( 01:44:17 :'( 01:44:30 what's wrong with invis though i don't really find it very offensive 01:44:56 its offensive ofr reasons i cant explain waell 01:45:16 thanks 01:45:32 monqy: I'm back! 01:46:32 oh nooo 01:46:33 butterfley 01:47:32 elliott: You'd better butterflee! 01:50:46 rest in peace terence 01:53:32 sgiratch no 01:53:38 n,o 01:54:01 monqy: help 01:54:18 calmly walk away if you can't handle it 01:54:32 "calmly" 01:54:36 if you think you might be able to handle it, get to a staircase 01:54:40 you can go up the staircas 01:54:47 if it fails 01:55:04 don't bother with that ghost 01:55:06 wow its really scary 01:55:07 yeah 01:55:08 it;s too strong for you 01:55:10 and it's 01:55:12 on thes taircas 01:55:15 haw haw 01:55:22 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:25 i love it when its on thes taircas 01:55:31 (i dont get the joke help) 01:55:37 ah 01:55:39 you had to hatch down 01:55:41 perfectly level layout for a ghost that's too strong for me 01:55:48 yse 01:55:54 by perfect i mean 01:55:55 worst 01:56:02 -!- augur has joined. 01:56:20 im just 01:56:23 going to skip this level 01:56:48 good choice 01:57:26 oh 01:57:30 yellow wasps are scary aernt they 01:57:33 maybe 01:57:37 why 01:57:44 i forget 01:57:47 htere's a stairs up right there 01:57:52 szobmies dont take stirs 01:57:57 02:57 yellow wasp[1/1]: Terrifying monster that poisons, slows, and paralyzes you. Rendered mostly impotent by poison resistance, otherwise quite deadly. A good target for wands of polymorph, if you lack rPois. 01:58:05 monqy: dude 01:58:06 have you 01:58:09 seen the previous level 01:58:21 bettter than dying to that yellow wasp zom,bie\ 01:58:35 is it monqy 01:58:36 is it 01:58:39 oh the staircase takes your ight there 01:58:41 hm 01:58:53 shaft down or smth idk 01:59:02 or go up then shaft down and hope you drop 2 levels 01:59:08 i cant really 01:59:09 go anywhere 01:59:12 being that im completely surrounded 01:59:20 blink 01:59:26 try again 01:59:27 or hack yr way out and hw 01:59:34 try also again 01:59:39 gj identifying 01:59:55 gj not having any scrolls of identify 02:00:03 ill just 02:00:08 quaff either the lumpy pink or viscous blue i guess 02:00:13 hav fun 02:00:47 i had fun 02:00:57 rip elliott "too magic for this world" 02:02:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 02:03:08 monqy: does your roguelike have ghost 02:03:16 undecidded 02:03:27 i ahvent thought about ghost yet 02:03:45 i like ghost theyer unfair but fu 02:03:46 n 02:07:15 monqy: does your roguelike have walruses 02:07:18 monqy: does your roguelike have area-effect spells? 02:07:31 monqy: does your roguelike have spells that can DESTROY WALLS 02:07:54 undecided, likely? depemds omn waht you mean by aoe, undecided, respectivel 02:09:17 wgats aoe 02:09:21 i mean spells that attach to a particular location, and taper off in strength from it quadratically in L1 distance :D 02:11:03 monqy: whats aoek 02:11:32 L1 distance? is that manhattan or waht 02:11:38 elliott: area of effect, k 02:11:46 thanks, k 02:11:52 l1 is taxicab 02:11:53 so 02:11:54 yes 02:12:13 i m used to different nams for them 02:12:19 but the 1 is still there 02:12:20 so 02:12:56 quintopia: it'd only be l1 if the rest of the gam was in l1 02:13:04 i have a horrible secret its that i actually kind of like crawls euclidean spellcasting/throwiwng 02:13:15 quintopia: im undecided between l1 and l\infty 02:13:19 it feels weird that someone could completely avoid yr ranged attacks just by standing like one square down 02:13:19 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 02:13:22 from a diagonal or whatever 02:13:33 monqy: understandable. squares or diamonds. it's hard to say. 02:14:08 quintopia: im more concerned about the gameplay effects 02:14:45 monqy: am i bad :( 02:14:58 and los is unbounded so you wouldn't see squares vs diamomds but the way im doing light bending around walls dpends on which distance i use so there would be a bit of aesthetics but i wouldnt worry about it 02:15:06 elliott: what about it do eoyu like 02:15:16 03:13 it feels weird that someone could completely avoid yr ranged attacks just by standing like one square down 02:15:19 03:13 from a diagonal or whatever 02:15:20 like 02:15:40 the likelihood of a monster yr fighting actually being in the tiles that can get you / be got by you if you just use chebyshev is 02:15:41 "completely avoid yr ranged attacks just by standing like one square down" is fixed by square los 02:15:43 low 02:15:46 monqy: how 02:15:51 im talking 02:15:53 brogue style 02:15:54 where you cano nly aim 02:15:55 square ranges 02:15:59 oh 02:16:00 up down left right nw se ne 02:16:01 thing 02:16:03 what 02:16:06 uhh 02:16:07 in brogue 02:16:09 thats not brogue style 02:16:12 you can only throw 02:16:14 brogue has targeting like crawl 02:16:15 hjklyubn 02:16:17 does it? 02:16:17 no 02:16:18 well 02:16:20 im not thinking of throwing 02:16:23 i forget what im thinking of 02:16:24 theres 02:16:27 you're brogueing wrong 02:16:28 something in brogue that's just like that 02:16:29 no 02:16:29 there is 02:16:31 trust me 02:16:32 its not throwing 02:16:32 what is it 02:16:34 tell me 02:16:34 its something else 02:16:37 i forgot!!! 02:16:39 i "need to know" 02:16:40 welll then 02:16:46 it's not staffs either!! 02:16:47 yr doubting me :'( 02:16:49 it was 02:16:50 yes 02:16:51 some special thing 02:16:51 i am 02:16:53 doubting you 02:17:18 and in my game it wouldnt be just hjklyubn targeting 02:17:22 targeting is undecided 02:17:29 ok well 02:17:34 isn't crawl's thing technically 02:17:35 chebyshev too 02:17:37 since its composed out of 02:17:39 chebyshev movements 02:17:44 crawl's thing is 02:17:46 "weiord" 02:18:04 it resistricts what "movements" such as to approximate euclidean looks 02:18:34 so id say it's crawsl good ol inconsistent quasieuclidean or w/e 02:18:40 "good ol" 02:18:46 ehhh what could you do with chebyshev that you couldnt with 02:18:50 crawls quasieuclidean(tm) 02:19:39 with square los the difference is that los and ranges are square so you dont have like 2 monsters the same movement-distance from you that you can target one but not the other 02:19:50 right 02:19:55 but in square los you still have the quasieuclidean targeting lightbending etc 02:20:40 i just dont like euclidean approximations they feel awkward to me 02:20:42 but 02:20:50 right im asking 02:20:51 with crawl i dont think you can get better than square los 02:20:53 how the targeting would change 02:20:54 without breaking everything 02:20:55 oh 02:20:56 uh 02:20:57 (not in your roguelike necessarily) 02:20:57 undecided 02:20:58 (just) 02:21:03 there are 02:21:04 (when moving to true chebyshev) 02:21:07 "multiple possibilities" 02:21:13 what are the possibilitlitielils ;_; 02:21:26 my thought would be: 02:21:31 simplest posisiblity is "no targeting" 02:21:43 you can target any square in los and it picks the shortest path to that (ignoring obstacles) 02:21:43 and 02:21:51 shortest path chebyshev-wise 02:21:52 and 02:21:54 if the shortest path crosses any obstacles then 02:21:56 "sucks to be you" 02:22:01 what do you mean 02:22:05 "the shortest path" 02:22:06 -!- TodPunk has joined. 02:22:11 i don't know what i mean :( 02:22:13 well 02:22:16 there are generally multiple minimal paths 02:22:19 yeah 02:22:19 just 02:22:21 pick any of them 02:22:21 which is the whole complication 02:22:24 :P 02:22:36 pick the one that doesn't bash into anything (don't do this or they'll end up curving around walls and things) 02:23:26 well light would work the same way the way i want to do it in chebshev 02:23:34 so if u dont want that "go manhaten" 02:23:44 but: targeting undecided etcetcetc 02:23:53 how do you want your light to work then 02:24:00 (are you having light) 02:24:32 any square to which there exists a minimal path unblocked by walls is illuminated 02:24:45 so chebshev is much brighter than manhattan 02:24:52 lots of weird bending too 02:24:56 i would do: 02:24:57 which can be good orb ad 02:25:04 any square to which all minimal paths are unblocked by walls is illuminate 02:25:05 d 02:25:07 *illuminated 02:25:09 *-d 02:25:11 that could work too 02:25:11 *-that whole line with just the d 02:25:15 then it 02:25:16 wouldn't bend 02:25:17 maybe ill try 02:25:18 both 02:25:33 and the targeting scheme would then work the same as light 02:25:44 oops now i want to 02:25:48 "build a targeting prototype" 02:25:56 monqy: but i'm curious as to why you're adding light 02:26:01 or do you just mean 02:26:02 los 02:26:14 i mean los/fov/whatever yeah 02:26:19 right 02:26:19 not 02:26:23 carrying lanterns around and shit 02:26:25 right 02:27:05 since i don't want like total blindness or transparent walls or anything like that 02:27:17 total blindness: "a good roguelike setting" 02:27:40 rogueunlike 02:41:28 im sorry to report that monqy has died of indecision 02:41:41 oh no 02:41:49 "rip monqy" 02:41:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:06 is indecision a kind of bad surgery 02:42:13 an incision gone wrong 02:46:26 yes 02:46:35 the worst kind of bad surgery 02:46:42 the baddest surgery :'( 02:46:46 :'( 02:46:50 monqy: are you deade now :'( 02:46:55 i was already dead 02:46:58 oh 02:47:03 are you double deade now 02:47:05 yes 02:47:06 i.e. alive 02:47:16 :o 02:47:37 "hi my name is monqy and im alive" 02:47:53 i'm not so sure about that! 02:47:59 i think monqy is thrice dead now 02:48:01 my name might be something else now, after all 02:48:03 jerk's ghost ghost ghost 02:48:11 *more 'ss 02:48:15 *"'s"s 02:48:19 monqy: are you thread 02:48:26 quite possibly 02:48:30 I've lost track 02:48:42 maybe your'e' needle 02:48:46 or haystacke 02:48:56 "you never know" 02:48:57 that's a bit more dead than i'm comnfortable with 02:49:23 monqy: dead people are rarely comfortabl'e :'( 02:49:30 :( 02:52:01 monqy: would you like to be resurrected 02:52:03 -!- elliott has changed nick to ellipticiott. 02:56:24 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:59:37 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 02:59:37 -!- tswett has joined. 03:14:14 monqy: i wish i could help you wif roguelike 03:26:20 rip quintopia 03:26:27 killed by wish to help monqy wif roguelike 03:26:29 what 03:26:32 i am here 03:26:49 no 03:26:49 dead 03:26:52 *ded 03:27:35 well 03:27:38 i am a guest 03:28:15 gohst 03:28:21 yeah 03:28:21 a guest's ghost 03:28:25 i misspelled ghsot 03:28:38 ghtos 03:28:41 gosth 03:28:44 oghts 03:28:48 :/ 03:31:00 hi 03:31:04 goths 03:32:24 g 03:32:24 sho 03:32:24 sh 03:32:25 sghuo 03:32:25 s 03:32:27 s 03:32:30 s 03:32:32 s 03:32:35 s 03:32:37 suohto 03:32:40 gsho 03:32:53 apparently pressing all the ghost keys at once does not produce ghost 03:33:19 shot 03:33:20 sghot 03:33:21 sghot 03:33:21 shot 03:33:23 sgo 03:33:25 sgho 03:33:27 gshot 03:33:29 ghost 03:33:31 yes!!!! 03:33:33 i did it 03:33:35 monqy: fun game try it 03:33:50 ghoasrt 03:33:57 close enough 03:34:36 oops 03:35:10 -!- JeroGreen has joined. 03:35:49 http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/132037/how-to-save-text-input-using-xml 03:35:49 there is a song about monqy playing 03:35:51 its like 03:35:52 `welcome JeroGreen 03:35:54 JeroGreen: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:35:58 who shot the monqy monqy mmonqy monqy monqy 03:36:03 -!- JeroGreen has quit (Client Quit). 03:36:08 mmonqy 03:36:17 mcrawl : crawl :: mmonqy : monqy 03:37:51 does 'm' stand for 'monqy' 03:37:58 or for 'mmonqy'??????? 03:37:58 no 03:38:00 no 03:38:05 does it stand for 'hi' 03:38:13 pretty sure it stands for 'm' 03:38:20 clever 03:38:24 extremely 03:38:31 maximally clever 03:38:40 yes 03:56:56 monqy: help. 03:57:32 yES? 03:58:43 monqy: im explodeing. 03:58:45 boom 03:58:48 "boom" 03:58:50 oh no 03:58:52 ehlp. 03:58:57 *heelp. 04:00:10 im corl. 04:02:00 rip sigmund. 04:04:30 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:05:19 heyyy 04:05:22 makhleb altar 04:05:27 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:06:52 uhhhhhhhh 04:07:03 grundr 04:07:07 should i run or 04:07:11 can i "take him on" 04:07:11 mayb you can "take" him. mayb not 04:07:32 wow how did i survive that 04:07:37 You can "take him to dinner". 04:07:59 fizzie: help. what should i do. 04:08:05 h 04:08:06 hello grinder 04:08:19 maybe i should 04:08:20 upstairs 04:09:48 there 04:09:51 problem solved 04:10:04 grinder can't paralyze you IF HE'S DEAD 04:10:05 the good old-fashioned way (i.e. with claws) 04:10:10 Patashu: he is now 04:10:19 i used a very advanced strategy 04:10:25 consisting of clawing him until he stopped being alive 04:10:54 my D:2 is 04:10:57 so full of islands it's ridiculous 04:11:50 _You finish putting on the +0 leather armour of Free Expression {SInv}. 04:11:51 of 04:11:52 free expression 04:11:57 wh;at 04:12:11 monqy: help 04:12:49 sinv!! 04:13:07 is it better than my robe 04:13:16 depends 04:13:18 don't ghouls have rC naturally 04:13:20 anyway 04:13:29 but also +2 04:13:40 one less rC and one less AC and one less EV probably too but hey sinv 04:13:51 :'( 04:13:57 ill 04:14:00 keep with robe 04:14:00 and 04:14:03 if i find enchant armour 04:14:06 i'll enchant it and use it maybe??? 04:14:11 it's an artifact 04:14:12 you cant enchant artefacts, ellipticiott 04:14:14 you can't enchant it 04:14:15 oh 04:14:21 maybe ill 04:14:24 ask ##crawl 04:14:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:15:00 why did quasit turn into quokka 04:15:26 q 04:15:27 qu 04:15:59 oh come on 04:16:01 runed plate armour 04:16:05 you can't do that to me crawl im going light armour 04:16:20 Patashu: (is light armour better than heavy on ghmo im suffering from indecision) 04:16:43 go light if you want to cast spells and train dodging 04:16:51 go heavy if fuck spells, you just want to tab things 04:16:52 imo 04:16:57 im not doing spelles i dont like spelles 04:17:07 if you don't like 04:17:09 spellees 04:17:14 you shouldn't ever use light armour for any reason 04:17:18 since light armour is for being able to cast spells in 04:17:22 also, don't fight crazy yiuf 04:17:25 he can randomly paralyze you 04:17:29 like that 04:17:32 i know what he can do! 04:17:35 but i quote 04:17:40 i "just want to tab things" 04:17:46 see 04:17:49 worked perfectly 04:18:14 Patashu: anyway the reasons i was going light was 04:18:17 *were 04:18:29 - heavy makes the unarmed combat a bit worse apparently??? and 04:18:32 - ev 04:19:00 and 04:19:01 stuff, 04:19:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:19:52 Patashu: :' ( 04:20:53 are those bad reasons.... if yes should i do spells maybe (im scared) 04:22:03 spells are awesome 04:22:05 if you find the right books 04:22:22 good spells: summon butterflies, repel missiles, blink, contel teleport, animate skeleton... 04:22:44 monqy: help 04:22:45 animate skeleton? 04:22:54 yeah, it's really good 04:22:58 like if ellipticiott wants +Curse gloves? 04:22:58 since you were going to butcher it anyway 04:22:58 and 04:23:01 -!- david_werecat has joined. 04:23:05 now you have an army of skeletons that can tank shit for you 04:23:10 whenever you can't for $reason 04:23:27 oh people actually use the skeletons? 04:23:27 I was doing snake:5 and my naga skeletons killed most of the rune vault for me when I ran lmao 04:23:30 I do 04:23:31 huh 04:23:33 they're not as bad as you think 04:23:37 they're about as strong as the original monster was 04:23:49 and they never time out 04:23:51 can't be abjured 04:23:51 etc 04:23:54 it's been a while since i've used that sort of stuff 04:24:04 animate dead is even better but it doesn't leave chunks 04:24:09 what does becoming transparent for a moment mean 04:24:16 and 04:24:17 darkness 04:24:26 i kind of like simulacrum 04:24:29 you can evoke it for invisibility 04:24:29 has it been nerfed? 04:24:30 cool spell 04:24:35 I've never tried simulacrum 04:24:39 but simulacrums should be pretty powerful 04:24:43 since they do ac-piercing cold 04:24:46 yeah 04:24:56 i can go invisible??? 04:24:58 if you get hydra chunks, you can make like a billion hydra simulacra, each with a ton of attacks which do a bunch of cold damage 04:24:59 cooooooooool 04:25:02 you can evoke it for invisibility 04:25:09 i have to leave for a while but 04:25:12 "will be back" 04:25:14 try not to die 04:25:17 while im gonne 04:25:19 ok Patashu i literally have two light armours and theres plate armour and stuff 04:25:20 on this level 04:25:23 what should i do 04:25:24 i mean 04:25:25 things seem 04:25:30 do you want spelles 04:25:33 (gone) 04:25:34 easier to kill with light stuff having tried it for a few (short) games 04:25:37 if all you're doing is training UC, atm 04:25:37 and 04:25:41 dodging and stuff might be "nice" 04:25:41 epillepticiot 04:25:42 you don't have to make a decision on heavy vs light until later 04:25:44 but 04:25:45 based on what books you find 04:25:47 i dont really want to like 04:25:53 do tens and tens of spells 04:26:09 maybe ill just learn a few spelles or something ;_; 04:26:12 Patashu: ok 04:26:17 so keep the light stuff on for now? 04:26:24 whatever 04:26:38 go heavy if you find no useful low level spells, light if you do 04:26:41 decide sometime mid lair I guess 04:26:57 by for now 04:26:58 i mean 04:27:00 before mid lair 04:27:44 I don't know the answer 04:27:59 `quote an adult 04:28:02 585) dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! I need.....an adult ;_; 04:28:04 yeahg 04:28:10 but actually the reason why is 04:28:16 I haven't gotten any unarmed fighters very far 04:28:20 oh well 04:28:25 can you decide between these two light armours at least 04:28:36 take the leather armour 04:28:40 get your armour skill to like 1 04:28:46 that pretty much gets rid of the penalties of using it 04:29:16 and then you have 14% gdr 04:29:24 one less AC though :( 04:29:35 oh, your ac is that low? 04:29:40 yeah 04:29:42 gdr probably won't even show up, then 04:29:45 go with the robe 04:29:46 lol 04:29:46 ok 04:30:06 well 04:30:08 it's actually higher than it looked there 04:30:10 because i have my cloak too 04:30:14 but that's 04:30:16 still not very high 04:30:31 how much would i have to train armour to get that up meaningfully anyway i guess i could train it a little bit 04:32:06 omfg 04:32:07 i fell from 04:32:08 D:5 04:32:10 to D:* 04:32:12 D:8 04:32:16 you'll liv 04:32:17 probably 04:32:26 D:8 <-- the face i'm making right now 04:32:33 oh no 04:32:34 a scary quokka 04:32:39 the dungeon is dangerous this deep 04:32:49 yes wonderful sarcasm 04:32:58 why aren't yougoing up stairs 04:33:03 you just went past a < 04:33:05 because 04:33:08 everything is a pushover 04:33:12 maybe im being too cocky 04:33:15 you are 04:33:22 you know 04:33:24 oh cool 04:33:26 a centaur and a giant eyeball 04:33:30 it was better on D:8 04:33:32 nice combination 04:33:38 hahahaha 04:34:19 there we go 04:34:26 sometimes going down shafts really blows though 04:34:33 like if you fall through a shaft and land on a cross level 04:34:36 seriously FUCK cross levels 04:34:40 cross level? 04:34:45 what's a cross level 04:34:47 a level 04:34:49 that is a tiny cross 04:34:54 and it has monqys-crawl level monster densities 04:35:00 for no good reason except because the level is so small 04:35:01 oh well that's not so bad 04:35:09 i deal with monqys-crawl-level monster densities all the time in monqys-crawl 04:35:11 every level in fact 04:35:15 yeah but 04:35:18 in monqys-crawl you're OP 04:35:21 in normal crawl you're not 04:35:42 You can now hurl Makhleb's greater destruction. 04:35:43 yaey 04:36:00 oh yeah do you know the answer to 04:36:05 the question i had 04:36:12 05:30 how much would i have to train armour to get that up meaningfully anyway i guess i could train it a little bit 04:36:14 where that = my AC 04:36:29 the way I understand it 04:36:34 armour skill raises AC slowly unless you have high base AC 04:36:36 but 04:36:40 it laso reduces the penalty of wearing armour 04:36:54 is this +2 leather armour better than my +2 robe of rC ;_; 04:37:14 crawl is hard 04:37:24 depends on what you're fighting 04:37:25 but probably 04:37:59 fucking knew that would happen 04:38:07 how do you separate a fucking pack of gnolls 04:38:11 stairdance 04:38:14 fuck that 04:38:16 lesser servant time 04:38:18 debuff spells 04:38:25 (is that dumb) 04:38:42 idk 04:38:44 never tried makhleb 04:38:48 Do What You Like 04:38:49 bye 04:39:11 wow everyone abandons me 04:39:15 help 04:39:17 Patashu: help 04:39:21 HELP 04:39:32 h e l p 04:39:33 monqy: help 04:39:51 help!!!!! 04:40:07 haha 04:40:09 it's hostile 04:40:09 nice 04:40:13 stairdudes 04:40:16 perfect 04:40:21 now just don't go up that staircase ever 04:40:23 yeah uh 04:40:24 and don't wake that snake up either 04:40:28 how do i place a note thing on that level 04:40:33 forget 04:40:34 and what's wrong with waking that snake up 04:40:34 ?? 04:40:40 ? 04:40:46 oh maybe you can take it 04:40:47 since you have rpois 04:40:58 yeah 04:41:00 anyway 04:41:02 makhleb is a jerk 04:41:04 and im going to train invocations 04:41:12 and armour why not 04:41:35 looks like i can't annotate another level 04:44:16 btw throwing nets are useful 04:44:20 you can't net very large things but 04:44:31 a net that covers its opponent is guaranteed to keep it covered for a certain number of turns, I think 4 04:44:36 unlike other things 04:44:39 neat 04:44:44 i wasn't sure if the learndb was being sarcastic about throwing nets 04:44:48 05:44 throwing net[1/6]: The single most deadly weapon in existence. Yes, it's even more deadly than a sceptre of torment as a ghoul fighter. One hit could kill a well to do character. Ask Nexos. In addition to the utter annihilation of its target, it may (depending on a few factors) also cause them to become immobilized for a little while. 04:44:53 well 04:44:55 obviously it's kidding 04:44:55 but 04:45:04 don't nets make it impossible to attack for the duration of being under the net 04:45:09 or something ridiculous like that 04:45:12 mmmm i have lots of hp now 04:45:20 not baf 04:45:24 you might not be one shotted by hydras 04:45:40 its not bad for turn 6365 04:45:45 oh boy 04:45:49 orc priest and a gnoll 04:45:52 a party designed specially for me 04:46:13 man 04:46:16 i can open doors while confused? 04:46:21 that's some trick 04:46:59 Patashu: oh i also have an amulet of 04:47:01 thingy 04:47:02 guardian spirit 04:47:05 so i have "even more effective hp" 04:47:08 (barely) 04:48:45 hi duvessa; ho dowan 04:48:46 *hi 04:48:52 hi two orc wizards 04:49:13 i forget 04:49:15 which is best to kill first 04:49:30 oh it's dowan 04:49:31 gj me 04:50:14 welp 04:51:27 back 04:51:30 you're not dead!! 04:51:32 congratulationes 04:51:36 monqy: i 04:51:38 almost died 04:51:41 =/ 04:51:44 you see that 4 04:51:50 that's the lesser servant makhleb gave me 04:51:51 yeah 04:51:51 a hellwing 04:51:53 spoiler 04:51:54 yeah 04:51:54 it was hostile 04:51:55 yeah 04:51:56 yeah 04:51:57 oh did you see that 04:51:58 bit 04:51:59 how much invo do you have 04:52:00 no 04:52:02 i'm just 04:52:03 agreeing 04:52:04 i had 0 at the time 04:52:06 now i have 2.6 04:52:06 welp 04:52:09 so 04:52:13 i put an annotation on that level 04:52:13 yeah you 04:52:14 want invo 04:52:16 and will never visit it again ever 04:52:19 well it's summoned so 04:52:22 probably timed out by now 04:52:26 NEVER 04:52:27 EVER 04:52:32 hi, eustachio 04:52:36 not durably summoned like 1s from zot traps 04:52:37 also i killed duvessa + dowan 04:52:53 wow eustachio weak 04:52:59 coulda been more interesting man!!! 04:53:28 wow 04:53:30 orc wizard party 04:53:55 wow two robes of cold resistance i mean really 04:54:28 are you going spelles 04:54:40 haven't decided yet Patashu said to decide heavy vs. light based on what books i find 04:54:43 if i am going spells then 04:54:44 ok 04:54:45 i'll just be going 04:54:49 "helper spells" 04:54:50 like 04:54:58 stuff to make my primary job of bashing things until they stop living easier 04:56:02 monqy: also i 04:56:03 fell down shaft 04:58:15 oop,s 04:58:41 nooo 04:58:44 this is the opposite of what i wanted 04:58:46 gj 04:58:49 just walk away 04:58:51 boring betls are slow 04:59:38 ha 04:59:39 h 04:59:40 ha 04:59:40 ha 04:59:47 how much HP does a wand of heal wounds give you 05:00:01 05:59 wand of heal wounds[1/1]: Exactly like a potion of heal wounds, except you can recharge it, it's lightweight and it won't be destroyed by cold attacks. Its healing is not based at all on evocation skill. Deep Dwarves start with one that has five charges. It's cool! 05:00:01 neat 05:01:01 oh boy 05:01:04 another slow and dangerous beetle 05:01:07 THEY'RE SO INTERESTING 05:01:23 boulder beetles are actually kind of interesting now 05:01:26 since they charge at oyu 05:01:30 i've never played vs one but 05:01:33 they look fune 05:01:58 -!- augur has joined. 05:02:08 06:02 grum[1/1]: Unique gnoll. Breeds war dogs. Will eat you! So will dogs! Wears the skin of a deceased war dog. Aw! 05:02:20 06:02 @??gnoll 05:02:20 06:02 gnoll (g) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 2 | HP: 8-18 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 9 | Res: magic(8) | Chunks: contam | XP: 14. 05:02:20 06:02 @??grum 05:02:21 06:02 Grum (g) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 4 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 20 | Res: magic(16) | Chunks: contam | XP: 188. 05:02:23 sigh 05:02:25 "like a gnoll but worse" 05:04:37 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:07:09 hell yeah 05:07:13 fuckin' box of beasts 05:07:23 hell yeah 05:07:25 fuckin' hill giant 05:07:53 monqy: what's good against hill giants 05:07:56 makhleb ability wise 05:08:01 that isn't going to turn on me 05:08:14 how much piety do you have 05:08:20 four pips 05:08:24 er 05:08:27 invo skill i mean 05:08:29 6.1 05:08:40 you miught be able to use lesser servant or major destruction, uhh 05:08:54 major destruction can "turn on you" if you're too close and get an explosion, but you're not too close 05:08:57 i was thinking major destruction yeah 05:08:59 but your failrate is high 05:09:01 i also have: a wand of draining 05:09:06 and also a wand that i don't know what it is 05:09:09 (and a wand of heal wounds!!!) 05:09:10 minor destruction might be too wimpey 05:09:15 go with major destruction i guess 05:09:32 well 05:09:37 it killed SOMETHING 05:09:41 that's the sort of explosion i was talking about 05:09:46 that's the sort of explosion i was talking about 05:09:46 im clever 05:09:50 uhhh 05:09:53 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:09:59 also major destruction is more powerful at higher invo skill etc etc 05:10:04 your invo is "kind of low" 05:10:04 i guess i could go with minor destruction now 05:10:06 or 05:10:08 claw it 05:10:09 no 05:10:14 claw is better than minor destruction 05:10:18 but 05:10:21 not really good 05:10:25 since low hp etc 05:10:28 you could have die!! 05:10:33 don't run from centaur!! 05:10:35 more likely is: i'll die to this centaur 05:10:36 dfuck into the room and close it 05:10:41 dfuck into the room 05:10:44 yes 05:10:46 dfuck into it 05:10:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:10:48 you can do it 05:10:50 believe in yourself 05:10:51 wont i like 05:10:52 die 05:10:52 from arrows 05:10:54 in the next turn 05:10:57 if i dfuck into the room 05:10:58 do you have any better ideas 05:11:06 nice 05:11:07 it would have been better if you hadn't made that other move 05:11:13 nice 05:11:14 nice 05:11:16 what xl is that ghost 05:11:19 dfucking: failed 05:11:22 i dunno lets find out 05:11:26 you can dfuck behind the grey thing but 05:11:31 you want to know the ghosts xl etc 05:11:39 xl 9 05:11:42 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hyperelynae/morgue-hyperelynae-20120509-110358.txt 05:11:47 drac ghosts xl7 and above have draining breath 05:11:50 ~have a fun~ 05:11:56 im already having a fun 05:11:57 uhhhh 05:12:05 maybe: zap heal wounds at myself; minor servant 05:12:15 no you want to duck first 05:12:20 or it will get free shots at you 05:12:21 duck where 05:12:22 oh wait centaurt 05:12:23 uhhhhhhh 05:12:26 hbehind the grey thing but 05:12:29 centaur would probably get you 05:12:37 if only you could apport the arrow from the doorway!! 05:12:41 if only 05:12:46 ok uhhh 05:12:46 (spell reasons) 05:12:49 im going to zap heal wounds at myself 05:12:52 monqy: i haven t seen books yet!! 05:13:12 oops 05:13:18 oh wait 05:13:21 you cant get drained 05:13:23 hahahahaha 05:13:26 siLLY ME 05:13:31 so the draining breath is 05:13:32 free turns 05:13:34 lesser servant time 05:13:37 ok 05:13:53 wow how did i get two servants 05:13:58 you might wnat another 05:14:00 that's not a servant 05:14:03 oh is that 05:14:04 hellwing animated the hill giant 05:14:16 "problem sloved" 05:14:19 ok i guess the hell wing alone worked 05:14:43 im going to 05:14:44 peek out 05:14:47 and theres going to be something horrible 05:14:49 and ill duck back 05:14:49 for the next 05:14:51 1000 turns 05:15:47 ouche 05:16:17 oh boy 05:16:23 monqy's favourite spell!!!! 05:16:30 uhhh so 05:16:36 are any of these worth learning right now 05:16:38 if i were going spelles 05:17:04 "spells : new to me" 05:19:20 monqy: :'( 05:19:24 oh uh 05:19:26 conjurations 05:19:27 uh 05:19:27 uh 05:19:31 "get meph" (laughs) 05:19:35 can i even its level 3 05:19:37 i dont know what the levels mean 05:19:40 honestly i'm not a fan of the conjurations school 05:19:42 it's 05:19:44 it's ehhh 05:19:47 where by ehh i mean 05:19:49 i don';t like it 05:19:50 it's not fun 05:19:55 it's powerful and all but 05:19:57 well i know magic dart is 05:19:58 zzzzzz 05:20:01 not my "cup of tea" 05:20:07 yeah this is boring me IM DONE WITH YOU OCNJURATIONS 05:20:12 basically conjurations is magic dart x100000000000000000000000 05:20:19 except for some oddballs 05:20:27 like meph 05:20:28 what they can't follow me downstairs!! 05:20:33 hint the oddballs are worse than the magic darts 05:20:45 where by worse i mean 05:20:47 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'er 05:21:11 oh no 05:21:19 nice 05:21:26 ducking might be hard 05:21:35 wow im fucked 05:21:35 oh no what are you doing 05:21:38 i was trying to 05:21:39 chokepoint 05:21:40 centaurs 05:21:41 you might be able to major destruction all of them 05:21:42 no 05:21:43 yeah 05:21:44 that doesnt work 05:21:45 i know 05:21:46 i know 05:21:49 then why did you do it 05:21:55 panicke 05:22:03 maybe i can 05:22:04 might wnat to heal 05:22:05 duck behind that corner 05:22:08 no 05:22:19 sighe 05:22:23 blinke perhaps 05:22:27 oh you could bliking mabye 05:22:29 (mAYBE) 05:22:31 "where to" laughs 05:22:33 you might not be able to get out of los 05:22:51 maybe quaff levitation 05:23:18 (its a joke) 05:23:33 oh right the other reason besides "i like it more" for having chebyshev/manhattan los in some fassion is it's easier to calculate for players so they can know if they'll be out of los of something by ducking or w/e 05:23:45 righte 05:23:50 eeeh 05:23:51 since like in crawl i never know if i'll actually be out of los of something it's just intuition 05:23:56 what if i blink here 05:24:02 you'd be out of los of a few of them 05:24:05 you might live 05:24:09 prbabbly your best bet tho 05:24:15 well 05:24:18 teleport 05:24:23 or duck and heal 05:24:27 i dont have teleport 05:24:32 you don't 05:24:33 ? 05:24:38 oh so i do 05:24:44 oh no 05:24:55 im going to have to 05:24:59 quaff curing for the hp ;_; 05:25:03 keep it around and recharge it when you get the chance 05:25:08 (the wand) 05:25:22 welp 05:25:27 welp 05:25:28 this game loves me 05:25:32 summon some servants 05:25:43 lesser? 05:25:46 yeah 05:26:05 uhhhhhhhhh 05:26:14 u 05:26:17 what 05:26:20 oh 05:26:24 (ne) 05:26:27 what if the giant eyeball stares me 05:26:28 and 05:26:29 paralyses 05:26:31 and i die to killer bee 05:26:39 do you have any other choices? 05:26:39 no 05:26:53 if you stay there the para will be worse since more bees will be hitting you 05:26:57 i was going to 05:26:59 quaff curing 05:27:00 but 05:27:00 yeah 05:27:11 if you want to get rid of the eyeball, u then destruction it 05:27:17 well 05:27:19 i survived para 05:27:20 or wand it 05:27:32 hmm 05:27:33 or something it 05:27:47 or more servants and let them meatshield you from the bees 05:27:47 i could destruction it now but 05:27:50 might die to bees 05:27:50 and just spam them 05:27:59 well 05:28:08 i think i'm in too compromising a position to establish a shield of meat 05:28:33 also 05:28:37 i'd have to lesser destruction the eyeball since 05:28:38 fireball 05:29:14 hmm 05:29:43 wrong choice 05:30:13 monqy: hi 05:30:33 blinking 05:30:42 what did you do btw i wasnt watching 05:31:09 first i 05:31:13 minor destructioned the eyeball 05:31:15 (didnt help much) 05:31:19 then i was low on hp so curing 05:31:28 but it didn't help so i think i attacked right or something 05:31:31 or maybe i curinged again 05:31:35 anyway then i summoned another servant 05:31:37 and now i have 1 hp 05:31:44 here? 05:31:54 or 05:31:58 here or 05:31:59 down there 05:32:10 not there 05:32:13 maybe down 05:32:34 because of bee proximity 05:32:40 up and eyeball 05:32:45 huh? 05:32:50 er 05:32:51 oops 05:32:56 i oopsed my messages together 05:33:01 erase the up 05:33:02 anyway uh 05:33:20 either blink or heal or servants or use a bolt wand the bees 05:33:29 don't use anything that can explode or you'll anger your ynoxinum 05:33:33 i have a 05:33:34 draining works 05:33:35 wand of draining 05:33:42 hi, eyeball. 05:33:45 aim such that it hits all the bees and the eyeball 05:33:54 draining will pass harmlessly through demons 05:33:55 what again? i was going to quaff curing at this point 05:33:56 which makes it ideal 05:34:01 wand again 05:34:05 get rid of the eyeball 05:34:19 it doesn't really want rid of and these bees are sorta 05:34:23 approaching 05:34:30 have fun w/ para 05:34:47 fine 05:35:05 ok what 05:35:07 gr8 05:35:27 wow how the fuck did i survive that 05:35:29 might want to heal 05:35:48 ok your lifeline is gone 05:35:52 maybe try wanding again 05:35:53 wow how can killer bees not succumb to ynonxinuls they're 3s 05:36:18 where by lifeline i mean the ufetubus. i guess the ynoxinuls are also distracting them 05:36:31 ill 05:36:34 zab the eyeball again i guess 05:36:42 hopefully it won't miss this time 05:36:43 good 05:36:43 yaey 05:36:51 wow these bees 05:37:12 hm 05:37:21 i guess i'll drain the bees again 05:37:32 they don't seem to be moving 05:37:47 yaey 05:37:52 hmm 05:37:58 might have enough hp to just bash them 05:37:59 bees are dodgy 05:38:03 might 05:38:08 go for the deader bee 05:38:09 monqy: im rpois tho 05:38:15 bees hit hard 05:38:16 the deader one is the yellow one right 05:38:19 you have low ac 05:38:22 probably 05:38:30 where by hit hard i mean 05:38:30 yay 05:38:39 they hit a lot, and decently strongly 05:38:51 eat some bee 05:38:53 or that 05:39:02 this bee is for eating when the centaurs come again 05:39:16 ideally you'll bee in a better position 05:39:29 it's just one cent- ohhhh 05:39:37 duck 05:39:47 what 05:39:51 where did it go 05:39:53 take the down road 05:39:58 up road is centaur territory 05:40:01 back up 05:40:05 i know i know 05:40:12 ok ok 05:40:17 spd 10 so... not using major destruction on this guy 05:40:19 well 05:40:19 i coudl 05:40:21 *could 05:40:22 but it'd hurt 05:40:25 if you like exploding yourself 05:40:30 maybe a servant 05:40:31 Will your character be eye next time? No hand, just eye so that you are limited in unable to wear anything and so on,,,...,,...,,,,,,...,,.....,..,,, 05:40:36 or backpedal, hatch, and try again later 05:40:39 I watched Kaiji show today. 05:40:47 thanks neqoxec 05:40:50 you were a real pal 05:41:21 zzo38: if just an eye, make friends with hand. maybe you can coordinate something. 05:41:29 In E Card, it is not permitted to just select a card from your hand at random; you have to decide which card to play. How can they possibly enforce that rule? 05:41:50 monqy: did you know: meleeing hill giants is a bad idea even after you've weakened them 05:41:52 quintopia: O, yes. But you have to do so later in the game, not just at the start (unless you start with such a spell) 05:42:25 wow i really need 05:42:26 spells 05:42:37 zzo38: wand of hand-eye coordination 05:42:43 bah 05:43:07 hmm 05:43:09 ellipticiott: Which one? Curse item? Uncurse item? Rotate dungeon layout? 05:43:36 Do any of these spells exist in this game? 05:43:37 monqy: hellwing v. hill giant who wins 05:43:55 zzo38: the first two do (well, (un)curse jewellery/armour/etc.) 05:45:12 ellipticiott: you could fire draining through the helwing if you're really concerned 05:45:19 There is no curse item spell in ADOM (although it is possible to use other items to curse other items); if I make up some game there should be such a spells 05:45:35 monqy: well im on a stair to the orcish mines so i could just party on orc:1 for a bit if i really wanted to avoid this situation 05:45:48 doubt my wand of draining will last much longer and there are multiple hill giants around so 05:46:10 Another spell there should be is one, during the spell's duration, allows the target to make knight moves but disallow from making king moves 05:46:25 ok that was easy enough 05:46:55 Do they have surveillance traps? Or, any other kind of traps, in this game? 05:48:07 monqy: yake 05:48:08 ehh 05:48:12 i can probably take yaks on at this point i guess 05:48:15 they're weaker than hill giants right 05:49:18 yes, they are 05:49:20 otoh there's three of them 05:50:19 i love the part where i get myself into trouble 05:51:13 you can probably take the yaks if you choke them 05:51:33 06:51 <|amethyst> ellipticiott: thanks for mentioning the thing about !, fixed in trunk (commit message should come shortly) 05:51:34 oh no 05:51:35 i've lead to 05:51:37 UI improvements in crawl 05:51:50 welcome to the club 05:51:53 -!- ellipticiott has changed nick to elliott. 05:51:59 :'( 05:52:04 monqy: i had a chokepoint but 05:52:06 i lost hp so 05:52:13 ill go for that chokepoint on the left of the map 05:52:18 you lost hp killing the skeleetone 05:52:26 you could go around that bend 05:52:31 (the one below you) 05:52:44 bam, hp on kills 05:52:45 mmm 05:52:46 hp on kills 05:52:46 yes 05:52:53 that's the makhleb life 05:53:43 oh boy 05:54:14 dunno if anyone told you but you can also annotate a level you aren't on if you';re standing on the corresponding staircase 05:54:20 the/a 05:54:25 sigh 05:54:29 monqy: i just annotated it with 05:54:30 Xmap 05:54:32 but thanks 05:54:41 uhhh 05:54:43 ?? 05:54:44 yeah that was 05:54:45 dumb 05:54:50 fuck 05:54:58 i forgot you can't chokepoint them 05:55:09 i want to hate slime creatures but they're too clever for me to 05:55:22 probably not such a good idea for you to be fighting them at that hp anyway 05:55:31 guess i'll run up another staircase 05:55:34 and 05:55:36 use a servant next time 05:55:42 oh boy 05:55:43 wh 05:55:45 i saw a corridor 05:55:47 where there was none 05:55:48 why did you go that way 05:55:51 because 05:55:52 mirage 05:55:54 i wanted to get to the green < 05:55:55 yes 05:56:13 come onnnnn 05:56:19 thats what i meant with the proably not such a agreat idea 05:56:47 you said "them" plural!!! 05:56:53 anyway time to quaff curing again like a moron 05:56:58 sigh 05:57:03 thats why curing is moronic 05:57:05 sigh 05:57:36 i only ever feel two things when playing crawl 05:57:42 "wow this is so boring when do i get to the fun stuff" 05:57:50 "oh man how did i get down all the way here i'm way out of my league and about to die" 05:58:07 have you fixed monqys-crawl yet 05:58:17 no 05:58:18 anyway 05:58:20 what should i do 05:58:21 run? 05:58:38 (it's speed 10 but MAYBE IT'LL GET A RANDOM MOVE THING AND FALL BEHIND ME) 05:59:19 "pillar dans foer ever" 05:59:23 i also have 05:59:26 uhhh 05:59:27 do you think 05:59:28 slimy pink 05:59:29 or pink 05:59:30 is hw 06:00:08 at a certain point, especially as a ghoul where you dont get such adverse effects from potionms and you dont have to worry about conserving cmut, it's better to quaffid your stacks than wait for scrolls 06:00:18 ok 06:00:21 but 06:00:28 "for the future" reference 06:00:31 at this point i need to quaff id when quaff iding the wrong one will result in 06:00:32 deth 06:00:32 so 06:00:36 i need your psychic 06:00:38 ness 06:00:45 ehhhh 06:00:46 idk 06:00:48 maybe i could drain it 06:00:52 no 06:00:54 oh it has lots of hp 06:00:55 never mind them 06:00:56 *then 06:00:57 btw slime creitters regen quickly 06:01:00 maybe youve noticed 06:01:04 yes i have thanks 06:01:13 maybe box of beasts 06:01:46 monqy: throwing net ???? 06:02:40 ok uhhhh 06:02:46 i either quaff id a potion or zap id a wand i guess 06:03:24 righto 06:03:25 uhhh 06:03:30 monqy: if im agile maybe i can outrun it??? 06:03:32 to 06:03:34 the previous level 06:03:49 agility doesnt incres yr sped sorey 06:03:54 wait what does it do then 06:04:00 07:03 agility[1/1]: Provides temporary Dex, EV, and stealth bonuses. 06:04:00 lame 06:04:03 bend space (laughes lauchges) 06:04:09 laughes 06:04:13 step from time (lmaueo) 06:04:17 maybe go invisible !!! 06:04:23 (raoeufl) 06:04:42 >:( 06:04:48 i blame the id game 06:06:19 crawl is annoying 06:06:23 yes 06:07:16 maybe ill play again 06:07:17 or sleep 06:07:58 monqy: anyway the problem with running away is that 06:07:59 it's hard 06:08:03 because things follow you 06:08:20 the idea is to 06:08:28 run away before things get you in trouble 06:08:37 and not charge into things etc 06:08:51 :( 06:13:58 anyway 06:14:01 despite the dying thing 06:14:10 i think i'll stick with light armour + try some spelles in future 06:14:31 ok 06:14:35 Can someone help me with worshipping Lugonu.(Abysmal Knight) (self.roguelikes) 06:14:38 abysmal knight 06:17:40 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/55fed8025e64a3ba584cfe6c0c6a7444bf655045 06:17:41 "my commit" 06:26:43 Does hiding certain functions from exporting in GHC cause it to optimize them in more ways than exported functions would be? 06:27:44 What's the not-text-based roguelike that I only know of because it had an autopackage thingy? 06:28:00 Sgeo: I don't know 06:28:12 waht is autoacpkaage 06:28:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopackage 06:29:55 help 06:30:14 Found it! 06:30:17 (the game) 06:30:17 http://scourgeweb.org/tiki-index.php 06:30:22 hi 06:30:30 I never managed to play it, graphics requirements too high 06:30:43 Jenna, 02:54 EDT, Fri 27 of Apr., 2012: dresses for wedding guest plus size cocktail dress beautiful wedding dresses flower girl dresses uk cheap bridesmaid dress short white dresses 06:31:59 Although I think the version I tried was just S.C.O.U.R.G.E. 06:32:11 zzo38: "For best results, use an explicit export list. If you do, GHC can inline any non-exported functions that are only called once, even if they are very big." 06:32:32 from http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Performance/GHC 06:32:57 oerjan: Is that the only thing it can do? Can it do other things such as omit patterns which it knows are unused? 06:33:58 zzo38: i don't know, that's what i found by googling. i guess if it is inlined, it can probably also omit patterns. 06:34:16 "Back in '77 I worked with Steve Bourne on /bin/sh (little known fact: like awk, sh was named for its inventors, 'S' for Steve and 'H' for Humbert) and was responsible for the 'done' keyword." And now you're paying penance by saying incorrect things about Stack Overflow questions about Haskell!!!!! 06:34:56 also it seems inlining requires the function to be non-recursive, even then. 06:34:58 What I mean, for example, it is used many times but always with the first parameter 0 then it could simplify by omitting that part from the module 06:35:32 i don't know 06:36:11 I just got my check from Knuth! 06:36:23 Exciting, eh???? 06:36:29 yay! 06:36:31 shachaf: Does it work? 06:36:41 zzo38: For depositing? I doubt it. 06:36:47 It lacks a routing number, for one. 06:36:57 Oh, so they're ceremonial now? 06:37:05 he makes them out to a fake bank, iirc 06:37:12 (I mean physically ceremonial) 06:37:23 although you _can_ get a real one if you insist, no one does. 06:37:54 he doesn't give real ones out any more, iirc. 06:37:55 even if you insist. 06:38:08 mhm 06:38:11 "Knuth had to stop sending real checks in 2008 due to bank fraud" 06:39:05 Will he pay you in cash if you go to his office? 06:39:08 I like the part where elliott is simultaneously reading my messages and pretending I don't exist. 06:39:18 zzo38: He says something along those lines on his website. 06:39:26 (with a printout of the letter, in case it is due to a letter you received from him) 06:39:31 "On the other hand, I don't like to renege on promises, so I shall do my best to find a suitable way to send money to anyone who really prefers legal tender." 06:41:47 .....Oh 06:42:00 I always though the amount was for approx. e dollars 06:42:05 * Sgeo whats at self 06:42:23 hi 06:46:41 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:46:41 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 06:46:41 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:49:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:55:55 monqy: help 06:57:14 monqy: did you know almost every ??crawl entry is bad 06:58:20 07:58 i think the next crawl variant needs to replace getting the orb of zot with installing gentoo for the first time 06:58:22 monqy: monqys-crawl 06:58:25 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:58:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:58:51 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus20. 06:59:05 i havent read ??crawl 06:59:13 is it any good 06:59:21 enjoy 06:59:28 selected enteries 06:59:30 07:56 crawl[4/20]: press "o" to win crawltards 06:59:34 07:56 crawl[5/20]: Crawl sort of makes me want to be an art thief or something. 06:59:42 07:56 crawl[12/20]: ...basically taking advantage of mental illness 06:59:45 07:56 crawl[13/20]: ヽ(メ˃Д˂)シ ≡⌨ 06:59:50 07:56 crawl[14/20]: [08:49] more sexy than nethack! 06:59:51 monqy: whiche bot gives me ?? entries in ##crawl¿¿¿¿¿¿ 06:59:57 07:56 crawl[17/20]: I suppose Crawl is one of those games that make you want to fuck centaurs 07:00:29 monqy: anyway what's cang ;_; 07:00:34 i 07:00:36 it's cang 07:00:47 it's the oldest injoke in the book and nobody knows how it happened 07:01:02 fsvo "injoke" 07:01:10 ;_; 07:01:11 can 07:01:12 g 07:01:12 everyone who was inside it died? 07:01:14 *cang 07:01:15 yes 07:01:16 *-g line 07:01:43 it now drifts through memespace orphaned 07:02:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ETc<.). 07:03:28 monqy: is mong like monqy 07:03:33 occasionally i see mong and im like 07:03:34 oh its monq 07:03:34 y 07:03:36 but its not monqy 07:04:46 -!- augur_ has joined. 07:04:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:05:44 monqy: :( 07:06:53 :') 07:07:17 is mong like monqy though : / 07:07:21 i forget 07:07:23 can i just treat you as one 07:07:28 maybe 07:07:28 well nobody is like monqy i guess 07:07:35 monqy: wait are you mong now 07:07:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: If you are Prime Minister of Klopstokia, will you make it illegal to be late for meetings? Will you remove the words "I don't want" from the dictionary?). 07:07:51 yes 07:08:30 yes 07:08:40 if i aske a questione will elliott answere it indirectly 07:08:49 perhaps 07:09:46 syraines tepr guide is good 07:09:53 its a much better entry than ??crawl 07:10:25 08:08 mikee_: i wrote syraines tepr guide and i have never played a tepr 07:10:29 is chapayev syraine 07:10:31 ##crawl is so confusinge 07:11:13 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=583&view=next I'm pretty confident I'm missing the point here but can someone tell me what exactly this "cang" meme is about? 07:11:39 stop that 07:11:44 that's ancient 07:11:47 - e is euler's number and is supposedly a Pretty Big Deal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(mathematical_constant) 07:11:47 - pi is also an important mathematical constant to do with circles and whatnot 07:11:51 but yeah that thread was pretty hilarious 07:11:52 thanks danr 07:12:05 I'm sure all this with the name "cang" adds up to one hilarious joke for those cool enough to be in the know, but so far it has only irritated me. 07:12:08 i think that was before minmay did irc 07:12:12 wow tavern people are irritable 07:12:15 or 07:12:17 tavern person 07:12:33 which 07:12:38 danr 07:12:41 oh yeah 07:12:41 who i was just 07:12:42 quoting 07:12:44 i don't like danr 07:12:56 does "proprietor" mean they run it 07:13:15 yeah he started the tavern project 07:13:40 "project" 07:14:03 """project""" 07:14:08 ``project'' 07:14:16 nooo they were aligned 07:14:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `project'': not found 07:14:20 oops 07:14:26 i dont use 07:14:27 monospaced 07:14:30 fonts on irc 07:14:30 :( 07:14:39 i have to rebel some way monqy 07:14:44 if it wasn't proportional fonts for irc 07:14:50 elliott: you use comic sans, right? 07:14:55 it'd be drugs and slavery :( 07:15:33 I think slavery is not very rebellious 07:15:48 adults just can't understand 07:16:42 08:13 !learn add trcj_guide Your landlord already thinks you're a deadbeat and now you're blasting holes in the walls. You shout in anger and frustration and hurl your spellbook into the kitchen sink in a fit of adolescent rage, then you dump your coffee over its pages. 07:16:48 monqy: its too gritty i cant handle it help!!! 07:18:15 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:18:40 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4&p=4#p4 07:19:06 -!- cheater_ has joined. 07:24:05 There needs to be an IRC channel for Barbu 07:24:23 !learn add cheiwalking see {crawl} 07:24:29 monqy: funey joekse % 07:24:33 that % is meant to be a ^ 07:27:37 @tell Phantom_Hoover I should be able to comfortably host W:A games now 07:27:38 Consider it noted. 07:28:04 monqy: are you laughing 07:29:24 maybe 07:29:38 it was funnier when ??chei-walking had just been done in ##crawl 07:31:16 New way to spell (>>=): >≥ 07:31:21 Alternatively, »= 07:31:32 But But >≥ is better. 07:31:50 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:32:01 Maybe >≧? 07:32:10 No, I guess that would be >>== 07:32:13 * shachaf to sleep 07:32:37 -!- cheater_ has joined. 07:33:22 (Of course it would be ≫= if anything.) 07:34:27 -!- azaq23 has joined. 07:35:30 -!- azaq23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:52:28 -!- Ngevd has joined. 07:52:43 Hello 07:53:03 »= 07:54:36 08:52 conj is good 07:54:38 monqy: help. 07:55:57 depends on what you mean by good 07:56:38 some people in ##crawl like boring awful things 07:56:48 its a strange channel 07:57:08 /win 16 08:15:32 @time monqy 08:15:33 Local time for monqy is Thu May 10 01:15:33 2012 08:15:35 help 08:18:57 monqy: help. 08:28:39 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:31:38 monqy: help elliott and Ngevd UPDATE 08:32:01 help 08:32:05 Sgeo thanks! 08:32:11 Ngevd, yw 08:40:44 Ngevd: Howseyruo roguel iek 08:40:49 ———— A doctor . 08:41:04 —(!*·‚·) 08:41:08 oops i accidentally created a face 08:41:10 —(!*•‚•) 08:41:13 —(!*°‚°) 08:41:15 monqy: im new faces 08:41:41 wow, face 08:41:51 o~o 08:42:06 elliott, BEING REWRITTEN IN HTML+JAVASCRIPT FOR PURPOSES YOU ARE NOT WONT TO KNOW 08:42:16 monqy: begin 08:42:17 the shaming 08:42:25 Ngevd: sham 08:42:27 e 08:42:29 Ngevd: why? 08:42:32 i want to know now 08:42:35 sham 08:42:40 But you are not wont to know! 08:42:55 i want to know how much more i should be shameing you 08:42:59 *shaming 08:43:01 oh 08:43:01 oops 08:43:03 i made it correct by mistake 08:43:20 monqy, I write programs on windows and I couldn't it working on haskell in windows 08:43:26 dude its 08:43:27 nothing to bother 08:43:28 you just 08:43:31 install the haskel, pl 08:43:32 oh 08:43:32 because 08:43:34 curses 08:43:36 pah 08:43:38 youuore terible 08:43:39 curses indeed 08:43:41 monqy: maximum shameing 08:43:46 maximum shameing 08:44:12 elliott: why so many short lines ... 08:44:16 maybe you should start speaking in sentences? 08:44:26 monqy: reassign the sham 08:44:43 oh well, I'm leaving 08:45:08 its ok we can shame you from afar 08:45:09 sham for all; free sham today 08:45:10 *afare 08:45:14 monqy: can i have the shams 08:45:17 only 99 cents 08:45:28 (usd) 08:45:47 99 cents in US dollars? 08:45:56 are they also free :( 08:45:59 this is the worst christmas ever 08:46:56 @time monqy 08:46:58 Local time for monqy is Thu May 10 01:46:57 2012 08:46:59 it's so bad it's in may 08:47:03 monqy: happy 01:46:57 08:47:05 what happened, christmas 08:47:05 why 08:47:07 yes sometimes christmas gets earlier the worse it is 08:47:17 christmas in january "probably what we'll be having after the apocalypse" 08:47:28 which means we get two christmases within a month this year!!! 08:47:33 ghosts only no people alowed 08:47:37 joke's ghosts are people too 08:47:38 apocalypse: not so bad 08:47:39 everyone is dead 08:47:45 monqy: *jerk's 08:48:56 monqy: do you remember when santa existed :( 08:49:34 no D: 08:49:58 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: low battery). 08:50:12 monqy: low battery 08:50:22 ^rainbow low battery 08:50:22 low battery 08:50:35 lowe batere 08:50:45 youore time on this earth is running out monqy !!! 08:50:50 D: 08:51:03 theres no coming back after the battery runs out ! 08:52:01 monqy: also yuore going to explode too 08:52:09 i dont want to explod 08:52:14 "tough" 08:52:17 - god 08:53:07 monqy: be also ready to stomach. 08:58:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:59:08 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:03:49 monqy wasn't ready to stomach. 09:04:06 :'[ 09:07:12 Ow, battery. 09:07:38 welcome fizzie. u 2 will be discarded by the evisceration as monqy ceases to sustain the universe 09:10:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:11:28 monqy: hi i woke up 09:11:46 helllllo 09:11:51 are you tyred 09:12:01 very 09:12:06 i had a dream about a horse who wouldn't go away 09:12:12 his name was eliot : / 09:13:09 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:13:25 but he didn't have any hands, so it was ok to be mean to him 09:13:54 how peculiar 09:14:02 do horses usually have hands 09:14:18 all the time 09:14:23 but not on sunday 09:15:41 hey tane.us got more pages!!! 09:15:48 yaey 09:15:50 i love tane 09:16:07 http://tane.us/spacedog.html 09:16:29 is that a secret page 09:16:35 theres another secret page i forget where it is 09:16:42 this is a perfect simulator of me 09:16:49 just press the spacebar erratically 09:23:05 monqy: attn. i added 2 and 2 and got monqy. are you responsible for this 09:23:20 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 09:23:24 i don't know D: 09:23:43 you do not have any of the answers monqy do you 09:23:51 it is okay ; i too lack the answers ? 09:25:05 the true secret in this world is that there are no answers monqy 09:25:27 10:15 EXECUTIVE DECISION, ILLL BE BACK EITHER MORE SOBER OR UNABLE TO SEE. 09:25:27 10:15 Either way, I am ascending. 09:25:27 10:15 anubisbafoobis has left IRC (Quit: Page closed) 09:26:08 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:26:13 all i know about him is one time he was starving and died of starvation on the turn he bought out an entire food shop 09:26:20 good 09:28:38 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:40:02 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:00:04 -!- derdon has joined. 10:01:53 @time monqy 10:01:55 Local time for monqy is Thu May 10 03:01:53 2012 10:01:58 monqy: happy 03:01:53 10:02:12 :( 10:02:20 are you sad yet 10:02:28 i want to be a sleep 10:02:50 it's not possible 10:06:58 -!- cheater__ has joined. 10:07:28 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:07:36 that's it 10:07:38 monqy stopped 10:07:39 we're all gone 10:10:20 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:12:08 now would be a bad a time as any to formulate the rules to an xkcd drinking game 10:15:34 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:16:18 yes 10:16:54 this is what happens when monqy stops being in charge of these things 10:17:00 there's no limits on the depravity we will reach god help us 10:22:08 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:32:06 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 10:32:12 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 10:33:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:33:45 Hello 10:34:22 Actually, goodbye 10:34:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 10:35:21 hi 10:52:02 -!- Ngevd has joined. 10:52:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:55:59 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 11:00:53 lol @ minecraft world: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120312.html 11:03:12 hi ais523 11:03:20 hi elliott 11:03:26 hi ais523 11:03:49 elliott: so I reached level 22 in Brogue last night 11:03:54 (the Amulet of Yendor is on 26) 11:04:01 and I've seen almost all the monsters in the game now 11:04:02 oh dear, you're getting addicted, aren't you 11:04:07 not really 11:04:15 it's quite a quick game, that only took about 3 hours of play 11:04:18 congrats, anyway 11:04:22 that's wrt all the attempts 11:04:30 I think quickness is a good thing in a roguelike 11:04:40 got killed by an allied troll because I didn't realise it had been discorded 11:04:40 since usually all that changes is less repetition of the same stuff 11:06:11 Brogue actually makes Crawl's thing of "you have to do with the items you find" actually /work/, when previously I'd have said it was a really stupid idea 11:06:19 it doesn't work in Crawl, though, because it has a character selection screen 11:06:41 hmm, as opposed to what? 11:06:51 as in, what can you have other than "you have to do with the items you find"? 11:07:31 in Brogue you select your character after you start playing (with ♪oE), so that it's going to be compatible with the items you find 11:07:42 I like races/classes, personally; it's nice to have inherently different aptitudes and abilities to make things interesting 11:07:47 even if items are a large part of character-building 11:08:03 and say, in NetHack, if you want to play a particular sort of character you can typically actively go out and gain the items you need to do that 11:08:14 with the Castle wand or polypiling or branch rewards 11:08:40 Crawl does this to some extent with shops, but not with anything else 11:09:05 right, I like the use of randomness for character building 11:09:07 and Brogue does it with key reward rooms sometimes, but that mostly just gives enough flexibility to create a consistent character, rather than a particular character you wanted to play 11:09:21 Crawl tries to do that with the draconian colour thing; apparently it doesn't work too well 11:10:14 it doesn't work too well /because/ it doesn't give you the opportunity to build around your character 11:10:31 FWIW, my solidifying opinion on Crawl is that it's a bad game, but fun to play 11:10:33 say you become a draconian who's really good at casting fire spells, that's pointless unless you happened to start FE or find a book of fire 11:10:48 I guess you could play atheist until your color changed and then pick an appropriate god 11:10:52 and whining about its numerous flaws is part of that fun 11:10:59 but that's going to be problematic 11:11:14 ais523: what I heard was that it's ineffective bceause the colours barely mean anything 11:11:21 so people just keep doing what they were doing 11:11:33 they have to, because if they did mean something the game would be unplayable 11:12:11 btw, I'm now responsible for a commit to Crawl happening :( 11:12:15 "no way out now" 11:12:23 which one? 11:12:29 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/55fed8025e64a3ba584cfe6c0c6a7444bf655045 11:12:32 I'm responsible for a commit to Crawl happening too 11:12:33 (needs JS) 11:12:53 I have JS enabled for gitorious already, it seems 11:12:56 but IIRC it isn't needed for those pages 11:12:57 I asked how to annotate levels you're not on, and whether ! in the Xmap does it; answer is yes, and I said I wasn't sure because it used the same prompt as it would for annotating the current level 11:12:59 just to change branch 11:13:05 so |amethyst fixed it 11:13:08 (within minutes) 11:13:29 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:13:37 ais523: I think JS /is/ needed for that page, because it starts off with a "hey, this page needs JS!" message and no diff 11:13:40 and then the diff appears 11:13:46 ah, OK 11:15:04 hypothesis: almost any roguelike would be fun to play as long as it (a) has an interface as polished as Crawl's, and (b) has a lot of different stuff 11:15:08 *stuff in it 11:16:16 ais523: btw, what LOS do you like? (in general) 11:16:21 elliott: do you allow "more polished than Crawl's"? 11:16:35 and I think I like NetHack/Brogue-style LOS the best 11:16:46 sure, although I'm sceptical of the implicit claim that any roguelike has a more polished interface than Crawl right now 11:16:53 well, Brogue's is more polished in the sense that it's pretty 11:16:55 although it works better in NetHack than in Brogue, it doesn't interact too well with pits 11:16:59 but not in the sense that it can keep track of a bunch of stuff for you 11:17:12 ais523: I don't like being able to see through walls 11:17:13 oh, I care about things like consistency, and lag resistance 11:17:25 you can't see through walls in NetHack or Brogue, unless they happen to be transparent 11:17:42 oh, hmm, indeed 11:17:44 well, that's a kind of LOS 11:17:46 just an unrealistic one 11:17:53 OK, different question: what kind of targeting to you like? 11:17:54 *do you 11:18:05 I think it depends on what you want from your combat 11:18:23 ranged targeting, that is; or even not combat at all 11:18:25 consider blinking, etc. 11:18:30 Animist is going to use 8-direction targeting like NetHack, but where many spells are homing so you can hit things that aren't on the diagonals 11:18:34 actually, blinking isn't really relevant 11:18:49 ais523: yeah i can't abide by "you can only fire hjklyubn" 11:18:55 it is in Brogue, you can choose direction not distance so you have to aim at a wall 11:18:58 it's just ridiculous that something can avoid being attacked by standing one direction below 11:19:06 even if they're practically right next to you 11:19:10 *one tile below 11:19:15 elliott: it's nice on the interface, at least, and for magic it actually makes flavour sense (the words of the spell determine the direction) 11:19:21 anyway, I'll be back later, /away 11:30:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:39:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:39:38 Hello! 11:44:25 I've messed up my laptop again... 11:52:28 hi 11:53:15 This is why I shouldn't be allowed to upgrade things 11:55:09 Whoa, id Software is pronounced as in the word id, not as in eye-dee software. 11:55:39 Who knew? 11:56:01 Not I. 11:57:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:57:44 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:12:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:12:21 back 12:14:37 Hello 12:16:48 hi 12:17:41 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:18:11 "error: unknown filesystem; grub rescue>": please advise 12:18:51 lol 12:18:54 you're fucked\ 12:18:59 *-\ 12:19:07 what did you do 12:19:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:19:40 I attempted to install Ubuntu 12.04 12:19:50 over what 12:19:56 Ubuntu 12.04 12:20:08 what 12:20:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:20:36 ??? 12:20:48 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 12:20:51 The first install went bad 12:21:01 Taneb: looks like the second one did too 12:21:03 is there any data of value on the partitions in question 12:21:23 not having a recognisable filesystem is quite a major problem for a partition, really 12:21:26 if no: just boot a livecd, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdwhatever, start the install from scratch 12:21:26 The partitions grub gives access to? 12:21:35 Taneb: the drive full stop 12:21:38 Yes 12:21:39 if you know what filesystem's meant to be on there, you could run the appropriate version of fsck from a liveCD, I guess 12:21:43 (actually, you can cancel that dd after a minute, since it'll have overwritten the important parts) 12:21:47 Taneb: eh 12:21:54 Taneb: how painful would it be to rescue it and start over 12:22:11 Doable 12:22:37 might be the simplest thing... the alternative is messing with the partition table (which might not be that much of a pain) 12:22:54 boot the ubuntu installer and do manual partitioning, if you're confident in your skills of recognising which partition has your important data 12:23:01 then just try deleting all the others and adding a new one for ubuntu 12:26:13 Patashu: how do i watch your zotdef 12:26:16 it's not on cao or cdo 12:26:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:27:01 webtiles 12:27:13 you're kidding me 12:27:23 wong tiles 12:27:27 wang tiles even 12:28:20 Patashu: ok but why 12:28:55 webtiles has the hp bars 12:29:00 it makes zotdef a lot easier 12:29:18 you're such a windows user 12:29:30 how the fuck do you turn it to glyphs 12:29:36 F10 12:29:44 and select glyphs+symbols 12:29:56 too much spacing w/ glyphs+symbols 12:30:31 dwi I guess 12:31:07 i'm ding wi by using just glyphs 12:31:55 spear of Premature Burial 12:31:56 good name 12:32:36 Patashu: i don't get zot defence 12:32:55 ok 12:32:56 you say this 12:32:59 like zotdef is a thing you 'get 12:33:07 well as in 12:33:12 i don't actually understand what you are doing 12:34:05 on the simplest level 12:34:05 well 12:34:09 one level beyond "killing dudes" 12:34:29 elliott: it won't delete 12:34:50 Taneb: more detail pls 12:35:07 2 partitions that I want to delete won't delete 12:35:12 huh 12:35:13 ok??? 12:35:17 mennas got stuck in some kind of AI loop 12:35:17 well 12:35:18 good for me 12:35:35 Taneb: sigh 12:35:40 Taneb: why do you say they "won't delete" 12:35:46 what behaviour occurs to make you say this 12:35:51 Patashu: but what are you DOING 12:35:55 "Error deleting parition" 12:36:01 that's all it says? 12:36:02 thanks installer 12:36:12 stopping monsters from getting to the orb 12:36:17 Taneb: is this your primary machine 12:36:22 Yes 12:36:27 ehhhh 12:36:36 can you boot any other OS on it 12:36:52 No, they all go via grub 12:37:31 windows i presume? 12:37:35 would you consider the problem temporarily resolved if you could boot windows (and not linux) 12:38:03 Yes 12:38:45 ok 12:38:52 do you have a windows cd lying around 12:39:15 Ish? 12:39:18 ish 12:39:22 I have a Toshiba recover disk 12:39:37 weeeeeeeell 12:39:43 that wipes your entire HD 12:39:45 to my understanding 12:39:50 if you had a windows disc 12:39:55 you could just reinstall the bootloader 12:40:18 now that said there's a vague possibility you'll be able to convince the grub rescue stuff to boot windows but it'll be A Huge Pain if it's possible so uh 12:40:35 it might be best to use the ubuntu livecd to copy all your data off and then just nuke the disk from orbit 12:40:43 by which I mean wipe it and reinstall everything 12:45:04 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:49:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 12:49:35 ...I have a Windows 98 SE CD 12:49:49 Would that be any help? 12:53:23 no 12:53:35 unless you want to install windows 98 12:53:42 Which I don't 12:57:15 Patashu: why are two other people watching you 13:05:12 Patashu: you gonna report that bug? :P 13:05:51 of course not 13:06:04 pfft 13:06:07 but it's even in a release! 13:08:34 it's a -zotdef- bug 13:08:35 who cares 13:08:42 zots 13:08:48 and it probably has a retardedly complex cause 13:08:49 how do you know it doesn't happen in the eral game too?! 13:08:50 *real 13:09:03 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:09:06 because zotdef fucks with all the pathfinding etc stuff 13:12:50 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:20:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:32:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:04:51 -!- lkjhl has joined. 14:07:00 what this channel is about ? 14:07:30 Curry 14:07:33 `@ lkjhl ? esoteric 14:07:33 Indian food 14:07:37 lkjhl: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 14:10:44 -!- lkjhl has left. 14:13:37 @time #esoteric 14:13:37 TIME 14:14:15 @time #haskell-blah 14:15:01 [16:13:40] Channel CTCP TIME request from lambdabot [~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com] (TIME), ignored 14:16:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:58:07 -!- esolang_1234 has joined. 14:58:12 I'm back 15:00:52 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:03:03 Gregor: possibly the best short #esoteric fanfiction paragraph i've read today 15:06:47 if i can tell the kolmogorov complexity of a program, can this translate directly to the cost of running it on hardware (cpu time, memory usage)? 15:07:33 the kolmogorov complexity of the program as a string of letters? 15:07:57 no, as a program. 15:08:03 what does that mean? 15:08:03 How do I use EgoBot? 15:08:17 !help i don't know maybe like this 15:08:17 ​Sorry, I have no help for i_don_t_know_maybe_like_this! 15:08:26 !commands 15:08:34 !help commands 15:08:35 ​Sorry, I have no help for commands! 15:08:40 !help you 15:08:41 ​Sorry, I have no help for you! 15:08:44 lol 15:08:52 oklopol: kolmogorov complexity can be used to check the complexity of a text, but also of more complex objects, such as programs 15:09:02 oklopol: look at text as a trivial program which is its output 15:09:03 and what does it mean then? 15:09:50 that only helps if i know what the k complexity of a program is and i'm given a string 15:09:58 but i only know what the k of a word is 15:10:05 a measure of the computational resources needed to run a program 15:10:26 that is the high level definition of kolmogorov complexity of a program 15:10:50 notice i said "run" a program not "describe" a program 15:11:02 can you link a definition? 15:11:18 if you wanted to check the computational resources needed to describe it, you'd probably use an optimizing compiler of some sort. 15:11:27 no, i have heard it in a lecture 15:11:44 esolang_1234: stop spamming me 15:11:52 No: nicoo told me to. 15:12:09 esolang_1234: keep spamming me 15:12:26 ? Is this a joke? 15:12:40 no 15:12:58 cheater__: okay, never heard of such a thing 15:13:11 well i have heard of measures of running complexities 15:13:19 perhaps that's a natural thing to call them 15:15:35 if you were tasked with measuring the cost of running a program, how would you approach it? 15:16:47 How do I run a BF program with EgoBot? I got it to give me the language list, but I can't findn the run command. 15:16:49 do you mean how would i model that mathematically, or do you mean i'm given a program? 15:16:56 !bf muuuuuu 15:16:58 No output. 15:17:06 !bf ,.!joo 15:17:07 No output. 15:17:30 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 15:17:31 No output. 15:17:33 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 15:17:34 B 15:17:38 !bf ++++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++<-][.-] 15:17:39 No output. 15:17:42 ? 15:17:53 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++. 15:17:54 BE 15:17:59 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++. 15:18:00 BF 15:18:01 counting is hard. 15:18:11 ++++++++++++[>++++++++<-][.-] 15:18:17 I think I got it. 15:18:39 whoops. Forgot the !bf 15:18:47 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++<-][.-] 15:18:47 No output. 15:19:00 Oh. 15:19:07 Bf is hard. 15:19:12 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>[.-] 15:19:13 ​`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"! ..................... \......... 15:19:17 cheater__: as the mathematical model, i would assume we compute total self-maps on naturals, and let T(n) be the number of steps taken when input is n, and S(n) be the space used 15:19:28 that is, the usual way 15:21:22 hm, yeah. 15:21:25 What happens when Egobot does an infinite loop? I don't think it can solve the halting problem. 15:21:41 !bf +[] 15:21:53 !bf +++++++++++[.] 15:21:53 ​.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 15:21:59 if you ask me to investigate a particular program's running times, i'd run it on a few random inputs or tell you to go fuck yourself. 15:22:03 naturally 15:22:26 Oh, oklopol is here. 15:22:31 * Gregor writes more oklopol/elliott shipping. 15:22:36 esolang_1234: it can solve the halting problem for all programs you can submit through irc though 15:23:09 What if I submit wolfram's 2s3s turing machine? 15:23:11 you can easily do that with a look-up table for any finite length 15:23:18 (given the look-up table) 15:23:48 !bitwisecyclictag 1110001010 1001 15:24:16 !BCT 1110001010 1001 15:24:19 esolang_1234: the first program for it that hasn't been proven to either terminate or not needs two characters more than the freenode message length 15:24:32 Gregor really thought this one through 15:24:48 Wow. I'm just staring at that, laughing. 15:25:04 good 15:25:18 !BCT 1001 1001 15:25:28 How do you run another type of program? 15:25:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:26:00 dunno :/ 15:26:28 !run BCT 1001 1001 15:29:32 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>.>---.>----.<++++++.----.+.+++.+.-.---.>+.>--. 15:29:32 Hi oklopol! 15:30:08 whii 15:30:17 +++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++++>+++++++>++++++<<<<-]>>>----.<-----.----.---.>>+++++++.<<++.>++.>--.<<<++++.+.+.+.--------------------.>--.>>++++++++++.++.<--.<+++++++.<.>>.<.>>++++.---.<----.>++.-------.<<.<++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. 15:30:52 Still running..?.?. 15:31:21 Oh. 15:31:25 !bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+++>+><<<<-]>>.<-.++++.-------.+++++++++++++++++++++.++++.----.-------------.--.+++++++++.>-.+++++++++++.+++.>-. 15:31:26 ​!bf_txtgen +. 15:31:43 Awwwwwww I hoped it would run the output. 15:31:50 !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++++>+++++++>++++++<<<<-]>>>----.<-----.----.---.>>+++++++.<<++.>++.>--.<<<++++.+.+.+.--------------------.>--.>>++++++++++.++.<--.<+++++++.<.>>.<.>>++++.---.<----.>++.-------.<<.<++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. 15:31:51 esolang_1234 likes esolangs. 15:33:20 !languages 15:33:28 !langs 15:33:42 Ohwait, it's 15:33:44 !help languages 15:33:45 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 15:34:21 !bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>+.>>++++.-.>--.<+++.--.<<++.>>-----------------.>++.+++++++++.<<--.++++++++.>>---.<<.+++++.>>----.<.<<++++++++.>-.----.---.<----.>++.<++++++.--------.>>>-------------.+.+.+.<.<--.---.++.<++++++.>++++++++.>.<<.>.----.---.<----.>++.-------.++++++++++++.>>------.<----------------------. 15:34:22 ​[10:31] esolang_1234 likes esolangs. 15:37:03 !bfjoust (++-)*100000 15:37:04 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 15:37:36 !bfjoust failshudder >>+++++<<(++-)*100000 15:37:46 ​Score for esolang_1234_failshudder: 16.7 15:37:50 lol 15:38:11 -!- augur has joined. 15:40:36 -!- esolang_1234 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:50:29 Diablo's rogue-influenced, but so are Dark Cloud, Dwarf Fortress, Dungeon Siege... I don't think any of those are roguelikes either. 15:50:29 (Apparently all mainstream roguelikelikes have to start with "D" though.) 15:59:18 what about Dungeon Keeper 15:59:28 that doesn't start with a.. oh wait 16:02:56 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:26:27 -!- derdon has joined. 16:41:40 Shiren the Wanderer? 16:41:53 more roguelike than many open-source or beerfree roguelikes 16:42:01 and yet it's a mainstream game and doesn't start with D 16:45:01 The shiren series is the only roguelike I've ever bothered with 17:00:21 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:00:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:00:50 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:02:15 -!- Foggalong has joined. 17:03:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 17:04:33 -!- Foggalong has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:09:20 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 17:09:41 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:39:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:49:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:54:42 Urrgh. If you want to get through gmail's junk mail filter, it's really easy: Just attach a virus to your email. Then it's guaranteed that the recipient will get at least your subject line. 18:03:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:04:12 Hello 18:11:50 Is there a command that tells me what commands were installed with a particular package? 18:15:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:16:09 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:16:41 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:17:36 -!- monqy has joined. 18:25:22 -!- ais523_ has joined. 18:25:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:25:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 18:28:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:30:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:32:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:33:25 dpkg -S 18:33:33 oh taneb is gone 18:33:51 cheater__ -S 18:33:53 how goes 18:34:22 thinking what i should do at the gym tomorrow 18:34:57 maybe i'll do some abs in addition to the usual which is arms 18:35:06 don't you have enough arms already 18:35:07 the usual on that day that is 18:35:20 no i need at least 80 18:36:15 do you ever go to the gym kmc 18:36:18 no 18:36:23 or are you cultivating a life raft 18:37:29 kmc: how's stuff with u? 18:37:39 ok 18:38:06 how's your mish mosh 18:38:09 pish tosh 18:38:26 ok 18:38:28 -!- nortti has joined. 18:38:42 does it have double precision hdr colour yet 18:38:45 no 18:38:49 waiting for ur patches 18:38:50 insufficient 18:39:11 my patches will not merge with such a primitive codebase 18:39:17 i need at least wordpress code quality 18:39:49 we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own 18:40:13 resistance is mutex 18:40:24 itym futex 18:40:37 futual exclusion? 18:40:39 I unistalled Xorg today. Now I only use framebuffer and console apps 18:40:54 perhaps bonghits will fix your Xorg 18:41:16 Now I have 3 times more free memory 18:41:18 nortti why did you think i said i need 80 arms 18:41:26 the best resolution is 80 chars amirite 18:41:39 Here's an idea. 18:41:40 nortti: you can finally execute emacs 18:41:48 good 4 u 18:41:50 Like Lisp, but the only atoms are "and" and "or". 18:42:04 That is the entire idea. 18:42:13 your idea is boring 18:42:19 it's still lisp 18:42:31 cheater__: futex is a linux system call 18:42:32 cheater__: why would I want to use emacs if I can use ed? 18:42:35 if u did not kno 18:42:46 kmc: yeah, i knew 18:42:49 i was just pulling your leg 18:43:10 kmc: bonghits? 18:43:14 (and) is true and (or) is false, and... I don't know what (()) is. 18:43:15 yeah 18:43:25 unless your pipe is cracked 18:43:30 then you want some of that 18:44:06 tswett: make it use deontic logic and you're getting somewhere. 18:44:59 what language are you talking about? 18:45:10 Brainf**k 18:45:16 it's distinct from Brainfuck 18:45:21 and from Brainf*ck 18:45:26 and from BF 18:45:58 nortti: http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity490.html 18:46:15 kmc 18:46:57 kmc 18:47:00 i am super-bored 18:47:07 kmc: I still don't understand 18:47:08 you have been tasked with entertaining me 18:47:38 persevere and your god might pull you out of your miserable little life 18:48:07 fail, and your soul shall forever roam the labirynths of doom 18:50:04 nortti: it's ok 18:50:16 cheater__: have you seen this british sitcom _Peep Show_? 18:50:22 i might be the last person on earth to hear about it 18:50:25 but it's bloody hilarious 18:50:49 you are in europe and so the european tv takes less time to propogate 18:50:54 i've never found it funny 18:51:02 well, you're a bad person and you should die in a fire 18:51:07 how much have you seen? 18:51:07 probably because i've had british idiots around all day every day 18:51:12 not too much 18:51:29 haha 18:51:34 i've heard of peep show before i heard of you 18:51:39 if that tells you anything 18:52:14 i thought Series 3 was particularly funny 18:52:17 unless you're the guy who came to london from boston, and was raving about haskell and erlang and his hedge fund software during a pub drinking night 18:52:19 but it's all good 18:52:25 i'll check it out 18:52:35 that all sounds like something i'd do, except for erlang 18:52:40 yeah 18:52:53 also have you ever had a moustache 18:53:09 not a very good one 18:53:22 I think I like the idea of modal logic gates. 18:53:36 why do you 18:54:18 isn't that just quantum computing 18:54:21 Because there is a king in Norway. 18:54:54 No, quantum computing has tons of nuances that the phrase "modal logic gates" does not imply. 18:57:27 yeah and php is not a wrapper around c libs 18:57:40 the basic description of a quantum computer is a) pretty simple, and b) totally different from what anyone who hasn't studied quantum computing thinks it is 18:58:23 tswett: which modal logic do you have in mind? 18:58:50 linear temporal logic could be a fun basis for an esolang 18:59:16 kmc: in which ways is it different? 19:00:36 Well, in a quantum computer, every possible classical memory state is assigned a complex number, the "probability amplitude", such that the sums of the squares of the absolute values of these numbers (the "probabilities") is 1. 19:01:22 Computation consists of a sequence of quantum logic gates, which are unitary linear transformations, and observations, which are weird. 19:01:25 Or something like that, anyway. 19:01:30 nortti: it's not known to give you generalized nondeterminism 19:02:41 kmc: modal logic can be expressed in quantum computing in a very natural way 19:02:45 it's possible that BQP = NP but also possible that BQP = P 19:03:04 kmc: because quantum computing is constraint computing 19:03:10 is it now 19:03:14 is too 19:03:34 if your constraints don't fit your wavefunkshion collapsez 19:03:40 It's also possible that P = NP... 19:03:48 yes 19:03:56 cheater__: uh 19:03:57 But that's considered unlikely. 19:06:05 by some 19:06:08 kmc: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4856.html 19:07:08 i mean when you ask experts for a guess, you get some "P ≠ NP", some "P = NP", some "independent of ZFC", and some "don't know" 19:07:24 P ≠ NP is certainly the plurality view, but not unanimous 19:07:31 http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gasarch/papers/poll.pdf 19:09:05 wrt a random oracle, P ≠ NP with probability 1 19:09:28 and yet there are classes which are unequal this way with probability 1, yet are equal in the "real world" with no oracle 19:11:27 -!- david_werecat has joined. 19:17:09 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:25:33 kmc, http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4805.html 19:25:45 heh 19:29:05 "Webcomic author's tip: always wait at least 5 years between updates. Amateurs often update more frequently but this is a mistake." 19:29:08 :) 19:29:30 :) 19:37:02 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4769.html 19:38:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:40:41 As much as I don't like the GOP, this image is pretty 19:40:42 http://www.gop.com/themes/site_themes/gop/images/footerbanner.png 19:41:43 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4755.html 19:41:53 kmc: i think you need a kernel patch 19:42:07 strcpy("dongs", "bongs") 19:42:23 Sgeo: GOP? 19:42:45 "Grand Old Party". The Republican party. 19:42:59 -!- augur has joined. 19:43:17 gcc doesn't warn on that line, even with -Wall 19:43:29 i would have thought that string literals have type const char* 19:43:38 but maybe they don't, for backwards compat 19:43:49 Name's kinda ironic: they're the younger of the two major US parties. 19:44:03 kmc: The standard says they're const char*. 19:44:16 kmc, ur such a geek 19:44:23 pikhq_: are they? wow 19:44:37 IIRC, it doesn't; it just says you shouldn't modify them. 19:44:46 The type is still plain char. 19:45:00 'The term originated in 1875 in the Congressional Record, referring to the party associated with the successful military defense of the Union as "this gallant old party"; the following year in an article in the Cincinnati Commercial, the term was modified to "grand old party".' 19:45:55 ... The fuck they're actually char[]s but modifying them is undefined behavior. 19:46:08 "For character string literals, the array elements have type char, ..." 19:46:09 kmc: -Wwrite-strings should warn about mutating a string literal. 19:46:14 (it's not part of -Wall) 19:46:31 By the way ate there even other parties and democrats and republicans in USA 19:46:35 it's not even in -Wextra! 19:46:45 nortti: sure, there are tons, they rarely have any political power though 19:47:01 nortti: I did say "*major*" for a reason. 19:47:15 There's dozens of political parties, just hardly any that remain relevant. 19:47:16 You used to be able to make them writable with -fwritable-strings, but I think that has gone away. 19:47:28 NP is a proper subset of P 19:47:59 fizzie: I suspect they figure that anything that old won't work with any modern libc *anyways*. :) 19:48:11 oklopol: no it isn't 19:48:13 oklopol: Congrats on your millions. 19:48:18 the proof uses the theory of GOL gliders 19:48:25 kmc: yes it is 19:48:33 i just finished the proof and am going to be rich 19:48:42 cool story bro 19:50:53 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4724.html 19:52:25 so kmc 19:52:28 i am a bit less bored 19:52:34 you have not failed me, little one 19:53:07 yay 19:53:11 you have discovered jerkcity? 19:53:14 or just rediscovered 19:55:51 rediscovered 19:55:57 kmc, recursion: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4713.html 19:58:28 cheater__: i'm watching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_(TV_series) 19:58:39 i haven't decided if it's interesting or really terrible or both 19:59:00 you need to watch stargate sg-1 back to back. 19:59:04 no 19:59:19 have you watched it already? 19:59:19 this show has a total Magic Negro character 19:59:25 i thought writers were wise to that sort of thing by now 19:59:26 btw, I have a prediction for what will happen in Oracle v Google 19:59:37 I predict that Google will be found to owe Oracle exactly $750 in damages 19:59:44 kmc: is he poor 19:59:48 and possibly a mute 20:00:05 parts of this show sound like the Numberwang Code trailer 20:00:15 the what 20:00:22 kmc, i've found a movie which you must watch 20:00:25 it is called lisztomania 20:00:27 you don't know about numberwang? 20:00:31 and you will enjoy it 20:00:46 no i do not know of numberwang 20:01:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOZtWZ56lc 20:01:23 ais523: why that much 20:01:28 cheater__: he lives in the bronx, so probably poor 20:01:43 kmc: it's the minimum possible value for wilful copyright infringement, so it would seem appropriate for 9 lines out of 15 million 20:01:49 heh 20:01:56 kmc 20:01:56 i didn't know there were minimum penalties in civil suits 20:01:59 download lisztomania right now 20:02:01 no 20:02:04 maybe 20:02:12 do it 20:04:13 i really liked numberwang 1x01 20:06:48 hm maybe i should watch stargate 20:07:23 i think i have a copy 20:16:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:16:58 kmc: the movie is so so 20:17:05 kmc: the tv series is much better 20:17:11 kmc: have you seen "history of numberwang"? 20:17:57 yes 20:20:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:25:03 "Shit, we swore we were going to get through this week without praising the Third Reich again." 20:47:12 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:50:02 -!- augur has joined. 21:04:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:38 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 21:10:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:22:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:30:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:47:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:50 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 22:09:28 -!- itidus22 has joined. 22:12:28 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:12:28 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:26:53 C++,C--,C#,Cω,C♫, C₀ and C! are already taken, might I recommend "C-:"? It looks something like a smiley face. 22:30:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 22:35:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:45:46 * ais523 downloads Unity source 22:45:57 oh, should download gnome-games source too 22:57:03 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:07:35 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:13:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:29:34 -!- variable has changed nick to const. 23:36:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 2012-05-11: 00:04:15 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4702.html 00:22:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:30:16 ais523> C++,C--,C#,Cω,C♫, C₀ and C! are already taken, might I recommend "C-:"? It looks something like a smiley face. 00:30:22 Strangely, not Cflat 00:30:42 kmc: did you decide if Touch is good or bad 00:40:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:57:05 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:00:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:15:04 -!- madbr has joined. 01:40:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:43:50 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:59:21 -!- mrdragons has joined. 02:12:05 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 02:12:44 -!- cheater__ has joined. 02:15:14 -!- elliott has joined. 02:29:13 Something I was trying to think of with WizardCard, for example in Magic: the Gathering you may have a card with effect: Enchanted permanent gains "{0}: Destroy ~". Note in this case what the tilde refers to! So when converting into a computer code, the macro has to know what it is doing! 02:32:32 !! 02:32:49 For example if it eventually becomes: grant(read(this,attachee),activated(free,destroy(tilde))) and then it has to expand the "tilde" macro. Possibly by using some kind of lambda so that the parameter can be replaced at runtime by the current "this"? I don't know exactly how. 02:34:43 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/thjko/oh_ghc/ why is this a submission 02:34:43 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 02:37:55 Arn't higher order functions enough? 02:37:58 Why do you need macros? 02:43:47 Madoka-Kaname: Higher order functions are useful but macros are also useful for different purpose. 02:43:58 There are some things one will do which the other won't. 02:44:06 (Both ways) 02:44:12 Why would you use a macro here? 02:45:31 activated :: Cost -> (Context -> Context) -> Ability 02:45:42 Madoka-Kaname: Well, even the code I gave would result from the expansion of a few macros; but I am using some macro just for what I have thought. 02:46:26 But, yes, your type would be essentially it; well, the second parameter might differ somehow, or maybe not... 02:48:13 grant :: Permanent -> Ability -> Permanent 02:48:14 etc 02:48:22 Maybe even 02:49:06 data Ability = Triggered (Context -> Bool) (Context -> Context) | Activated Cost (Context -> Context) 02:49:07 Or something 02:49:09 To give an example in Haskell where a macro would work but a function won't do, is: let { f g = either g g } in f :: (b -> c) -> Either b b -> c; let { f g = either length length } in f :: t -> Either [a] [a1] -> Int; if f were a macro in the first case then you could do like the second one too since their types fail to match 02:50:43 Madoka-Kaname: I think those are a bit too simple; for example, these parameters are not necessarily pure values since first you need to calculate them in context (and there may be rules to override the context), and then this "grant" also needs to count as a (static) ability, etc 02:51:35 Which means it need to allow overriding and other things, some which can be done by monads others which help partially by macros too 02:56:27 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:04:14 -!- TeruFSX2 has changed nick to TeruFSX. 03:11:40 Consider an Inform 7 program such as "Instead of taking the telephone booth, kill the player." But, this is a global rule. In Magic: the Gathering, there might be effects on cards that act somewhat like this, and even these ones can be overridden; global rules can also be overridden. 03:25:02 Gregor: you wrote the music to this game's title screen, right? http://armorgames.com/play/13225/pretentious-game 03:27:32 _n - a cursed -5 ring of strength (left claw) 03:27:36 yuo're horible corl 03:29:30 anybody know a good non-distance-weighted pathfinding algorithm 03:30:01 TeruFSX: What are you making? 03:30:15 basically a browsable point-connected map 03:31:28 i think i'll look somewhere more appropriate 03:31:57 only know sound stuff, not AI 03:37:03 TeruFSX: Can't you just use A* :P 03:37:14 uh yes 03:44:27 * tswett attempts to rip the music that was definitely written by Gregor and not by somebody else. 03:48:08 gregor writes music? :D 03:50:23 http://codu.org/music/ 03:51:09 Gregor definitely writes music, such as the acclaimed Opus 11, as well as such pieces as Opus 10 and Opus 13. 03:52:01 Implying 11 is better than 13. 03:52:04 (Okay, I don't remember 11.) 03:52:22 Opus 11 is one of the best thousand songs I've ever heard. 03:52:38 Opus 11 is . . . the best thousand songs I've ever heard. 03:52:41 aha he uses opus numbers :o 03:52:49 tswett: That's a pretty low standard. 03:53:16 If you don't know what else to call it, you use opus numbers, isn't it? 03:53:26 Instead of taking the telephone booth, kill the player. 03:53:34 As far as play counts go, Opus 11 is tied for... 252nd. 03:53:47 Say, what's that one song? 03:53:48 zzo: why not filenames :D 03:54:02 hi tswett 03:54:03 That goes da (da-da-da) da (da da) da (da-da-da) da (da da) and so on? 03:54:15 madbr: But you would still need to decide something such as filenames too 03:54:15 5553 03:54:22 hi madbr 03:54:23 4442 03:54:29 Oh right, "Hardlyquin". 03:54:39 true 03:56:18 -!- elliott has left. 03:56:19 dunno about his "electronic music", his piano stuff is nice tho yeah :D 03:56:43 * tswett looks at the songs he has played 19 times. 03:56:48 Yes, all of these songs are exactly equally good. 03:58:40 hmm yeah the solo piano stuff is a lot better :D 03:59:09 weird, I thought when you could compose well for one you could do it for the other... oh well :D 04:05:07 anyone else composes in here? :D 04:05:34 madbr: I have written some music in QBASIC 04:07:58 and zzt? :D 04:10:10 wonder what my music would look transcribed 04:10:22 probably hard to play stuff with jumps all over the place :D 04:19:37 the mind revealing itself to itself 04:20:22 well, no it's just that it's composed to sound good on computer, not be easy to play :3 04:20:28 so often it's kinda fast etc 04:23:05 Yes, also ZZT, but also QBASIC. Some music I have written is in Bohlen-Pierce I wrote a subroutine for QBASIC called "PlayBP" which is like the built-in PLAY but with Bohlen-Pierce notes 04:26:00 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:26:11 WriterT (Product (Ratio Integer)) [] is one way to represent a probability distribution in Haskell, I would think!! (You can then sort and combine and whatever else, afterward) 04:30:15 Derptal 2 http://imgur.com/a/x9qTF 04:31:35 For doing the macro expansion in WizardCard I have decided this might work: type Expander = StateT [Declaration] []; How well do you think? (It would sometimes have multiple possible expansions, some of which may eventually fail; and is also possible for macros to add new declarations) 04:32:05 (And to read other declarations, affect declaration in other ways too, etc) 04:36:48 Do you know if Pascal compiler to target LLVM exists? 04:43:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:50:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:06:40 "madbr so often it's kinda fast etc" how fast? 05:08:52 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:09:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:09:26 -!- elliott has joined. 05:09:38 DID U KNO THAT IN C ARRAYS ARE POINTERS. ALSO I = I++ + I++ CAUSES I TO BECOME 4 05:09:50 WELKOM TO INFORMATION SUPERHEIGHWAY 05:09:52 No matter what I's previous value was. 05:09:52 -!- elliott has left. 05:10:20 -!- elliott has joined. 05:10:22 fizzie: YES INDEED. 05:10:32 Actually I just realise now that 4 is a plausible result if i starts as 0 there. :( 05:10:43 Well, sort of, anyway. 05:10:48 Wait, no, it isn't. 05:11:08 It's perfectly plausible. 05:11:38 But arrays aren't pointers. :-( 05:11:39 Any result is plausible for a sufficiently flexible 'plausible'. 05:12:15 i = i++ + i++; /* i becomes a picture of a dog */ 05:12:52 Maybe a sizeof(i)*CHAR_BIT-pixel black-and-white dog. 05:13:03 Gah, I put in parentheses there. :( 05:13:14 I meant to say (sizeof i)*CHAR_BIT, I think. 05:13:19 sizeof ((i)*CHAR_BIT) 05:13:34 fizzie: No, it doesn't become a numerical representation of a picture of a dog. 05:13:36 It becomes a picture of a dog. 05:13:48 printf("%d\n", i); /* prints a picture of a dog to the screen */ 05:13:52 Even on text-only displays. 05:14:19 Did I mention I got *TWO* responses from Knuth about my email? 05:14:51 Were the responses saying completely opposite things? If so, that does perhaps not bode well for further volumes. 05:15:13 No, one was a followup. 05:15:20 Also one was handwritten, the other emailed. 05:26:32 Do you know God is a crazy woman? I don't. 05:26:47 ok 05:29:37 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:32:09 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:41 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:33:10 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:37:57 https://twitter.com/#!/Marinmenyo/status/200628420789547010/photo/1 05:38:43 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:40:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:46:08 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:07:01 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:22:05 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:38:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:48:38 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:51:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:55:17 Has PH been online at all recently? 06:55:18 Ph 06:55:29 pH 06:56:26 PHP 06:57:02 he's in ireland 06:58:51 elliott: Do you pronounce “via a” (as in “via a connection”) as “viaRa”? 06:59:01 a pause is not "r"! 07:00:39 That’s what i thought, but in Look Around You the guy pronounces it like that and when i asked another British guy about it (some years ago) he confirmed that’s how it’s pronounced. Also, wouldn’t using a pause sound something like “viatta” to a Brit? 07:00:40 viar a? 07:00:50 it's concievable 07:02:17 monqy: this would be a good learndb entry for me why are 10 people watching elliott die to a beetle 07:02:38 maybe Sgeo will add it 07:03:17 elliott, when will you get W:A working? 07:09:10 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:10:17 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 07:10:53 -!- kmc has joined. 07:12:37 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:14:10 Are there some program with some features of Astrolog and other programs, can also plot the International Space Station's coordinates, and coordinates of camera satellites (such as Google Earth), set camera angles of objects, set various other parameters, etc. Another possible feature would be dynamic orb angles based on apparent diameters and other things 07:21:34 The "Stellarium" program has a satellite plugin (including ISS) that knows how to calculate the coordinates, but Stellarium itself is more of a "look at the sky" program than "calculate things about the sky" one. (And I doubt there really are any "Google Earth" satellites; I'd suppose there's at least two levels of companies between Google and the satellites.) 07:21:58 Anyway, celestrak.com is about tracking satellite positions, I think they've got some software links too. 07:22:13 (That's where Stellarium's plugin gets its information from.) 07:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:31:31 Astrolog is missing a few report formats (one thing missing certainly is that although it can print calendars; it lacks the feature to include any data on the calendars), but it does do many things that other programs don't have. Just a similar program but with other features too, as well as the way to combine them, would help. 07:31:52 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:32:15 fizzie: Do you have the satellite positions on your computer? 07:33:19 Do you know what the coordinates of ISS are? 07:39:39 elliott: 03:13 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5867126092237181778 07:39:41 elliott: 02:16 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229002293145728844 07:39:51 what 07:47:02 monqy: do you want to hear jokes 07:47:03 fast naga 07:47:07 ha ha ha 07:47:56 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 07:48:06 @@ @echo @echo @echo HA 07:48:06 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "ion!ion@heh.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA"]} rest:"echo; msg: 07:48:06 IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"ion!ion@heh.fi\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA\"]} rest:\"echo; msg: 07:48:06 IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA\ 07:48:06 \\"]} rest:\\\"HA\\\"\"" 07:49:15 zzo38: Does the International Space Station affect your luck in romance or gambling? 07:49:51 ion: Not unless you are betting on or marrying someone living there. 07:50:37 depending on what its position was at the point you moved from the inside of the womb to the outside. 07:51:10 -!- cheater has joined. 07:51:27 ion: In that case, I highly doubt it. 07:52:03 (At first I thought you meant the current date/time; which is what my first answer was based on) 07:52:03 Ah, it’s excluded from the list of objects in the sky behave like that? 07:52:05 +that 07:52:52 monqy: 4.1 is hard 07:53:06 yes 07:53:23 elliott: Any comments about the pronunciation in the videos? 07:53:31 No objects in the sky behave like that, as far as I am concerned. But if you like to do so, you can assign what they mean to you according to synchronicity (the subjective grouping of events; as opposed to causality which is the objective grouping) if you have nothing else to do. 07:54:26 zzo38: I was just wondering what Astrolog would do with the location of ISS. 07:54:36 ion: I didn't watch. 07:54:38 monqy: Have you played 4.1? 07:54:41 You should play 4.1. 07:55:01 I’m plortal 2. 07:55:04 But there is possibly the case of indirect effects from whatever, possibly psychological effect from superstition, possibly lighting conditions, and once the king was scared to death by an eclipse, so such things are not completely impossible. 07:55:46 II'v tried it 07:55:51 ion: Well, it would simply plot its location on whatever reports you want. Interpretation text could be given too; but you would probably not use the ISS in interpretation reports. 07:55:54 not gotten very far 07:56:45 (Astrolog does allow full customization of interpretation texts, so it is possible someone might do something with that) 08:01:07 "I now know what this world is missing. There needs to be some sort of natural law whereby anyone who writes a substantial amount of crap eventually dies in fires started by their own software." 08:01:14 monqy: what are you writing a denotational semantics for :o 08:01:28 For example, on the astro-graph you could plot its position above the Earth on a map of the world, on the horizon view you can determine its azimuth/altitude, and on the horoscope you can plot its ecliptic longitude, and there are many other reports available too. 08:01:57 nothing!!! i'm not writing a denotational semantics i'm near falling asleep. if i was writing a denotational semantics though it would be a secret 08:02:09 monqy: i don't like secrets!!! 08:02:14 "too bad" 08:02:34 monqy: it'll gnaw at me!!! 08:02:44 it's hurting with pain monqy 08:02:57 more pain: i've already written small-step and big-step operational semantics for it 08:03:02 more pain: by written i mean in coq 08:03:09 can you feel it 08:03:11 the gnawing 08:03:21 :'( 08:03:36 is it your language you're going to write your roguelike in 08:03:42 no 08:03:43 (imo a very likely guess) 08:03:47 what!!! literally impossible 08:04:21 monqy: but what IS it!!!!! 08:04:25 a secret 08:04:37 monqy: when will it stop being secret 08:04:43 it will never stop 08:04:54 unless you like stalk me and find my name on a paper or something idk 08:04:55 no 08:04:56 nooooo 08:05:13 can you feel the tears inside my eyes 08:05:14 my name isn't on any papers yet don't even try 08:06:47 monqy: but what 08:06:47 is 08:06:49 it : ' ( 08:07:02 a secret 08:07:05 it's not even my own project 08:07:26 "universety researche" 08:07:36 it does not help the gnaweing!!! 08:08:40 "It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it." - GK Chesterton 08:09:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:14:42 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:16:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:24:45 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 08:27:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:37:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:42:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:55:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:56:02 Hell 08:56:22 o 08:56:53 hi Taneb 09:00:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Pushing red button with purple dots and yellow lines is not permitted on Tuesdays, sorry!). 09:04:49 monqy: this game is so much better than dcss wow 09:04:50 it's 09:04:51 hilarious 09:04:57 elliott, which game? 09:05:10 Sgeo: linley's dungeon crawl 4.1 alpha 09:05:19 which caused dcss to exist 09:05:22 (and never got out of alpha) 09:05:28 it's awful 09:05:54 Still haven't got my laptop working 09:09:12 sucks 09:09:16 what's wrong 09:10:13 Grub's messed up 09:10:59 it's not grub that's messed up 09:11:05 it's the whole filesystem 09:11:31 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:11:49 elliott, I can still access my files when I boot from USB 09:12:33 oh you can? 09:12:36 on every partition? 09:13:26 Yes 09:15:41 hmm 09:15:45 it might be fairly easy to repair then 09:15:53 catch me when i'm not watching monqy play 4.1 09:15:57 and i'll try to help you fix it 09:16:53 catch you catch me 09:21:53 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:25:07 monqy: why not daggre :'( 09:25:09 *daggere 09:25:15 it was glowing !! 09:26:21 -!- cheater has joined. 09:28:54 -!- kmc has joined. 09:29:56 monqy: what's V 09:30:01 Vaults 09:30:20 (the branche) 09:30:20 oh 09:30:37 monqy: you have to admit, it's more fun than dcss!!! 09:30:48 not spen :( 09:31:44 monqy: play a mummy!!! 09:34:27 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:35:39 elliott: can I catch you now? 09:35:48 maybe 09:35:52 do you have a linux livecd 09:37:29 USB, yeah 09:38:35 A mute character will communicate with hand-held wooden signs on which are scrawled his comments and questions. 09:38:47 Flipping the sign will often display additional messages often more than the two one would expect from a simple two-sided object. 09:39:01 Well duh 09:39:05 The signs are 4-dimensional 09:39:49 ah so its a 4 dimensional rotation? 09:39:57 like this http://achewood.com/index.php?date=11092005 09:40:47 Taneb: boot it 09:40:55 -!- wareya has joined. 09:41:32 elliott, I'm chatting using it 09:41:39 Taneb: open a terminal 09:41:50 Ok 09:42:01 Taneb: ok do you have the linux partition mounted 09:42:11 Yes 09:42:19 cd to it 09:42:21 (brb one second) 09:43:02 back 09:43:04 Taneb: done? 09:43:10 kmc: that's certainly a quick reply. 09:43:16 elliott: yes 09:43:22 sudo chroot . 09:43:39 K 09:43:40 then 09:43:44 what ubuntu version is it 09:43:49 12.04 09:44:19 oh hmm 09:44:31 ok, close that terminal; install the Boot-Repair program instead (through the package manager) 09:44:34 then click "Recommended repair" 09:44:36 that should automate the grub reinstall 09:44:48 oh, it might not be available in the main repos 09:44:51 try opening a terminal and 09:44:55 sudo add-apt-repository ppa:yannubuntu/boot-repair && sudo apt-get update 09:44:59 sudo apt-get install boot-repair 09:45:01 then run it 09:45:13 also 09:45:21 write down the URL it gives after it repairs it 09:45:29 I think it has information about your system that could be used if it doesn't work 09:46:59 It's got stuck at Reading Package List... 90% 09:47:45 for how long 09:47:46 give it a minute 09:47:54 Just changed to 91% 09:47:57 itidus22: ? 09:48:16 Nevermind, it's completed 09:49:20 I've... 09:49:24 Just ran out of space? 09:49:34 huh? 09:49:40 you _did_ do it in another terminal, right? 09:49:47 Yes 09:49:52 one second 09:50:04 ok show me the exact error please 09:50:13 It's still going 09:50:26 kmc: it took like 1min 10sec after i first mentioned strange flipping signs before you posted the comic reference 09:50:30 what 09:50:42 Ah, just stopped 09:50:48 dpkg: error: failed to link '/var/lib/dpkg/available' to '/var/lib/dpkg/available-old' for backup of available database: No space left on device E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) 09:50:57 hmmmm 09:50:58 can you run 09:50:59 mount 09:51:02 and tell me what it outputs 09:51:21 What's your favourite pastebin? 09:51:28 sprunge.us i guess 09:51:41 mount | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us 09:52:13 Apparantly, I haven't got curl 09:52:31 sigh 09:52:34 just use hpaste or something :P 09:53:04 http://hpaste.org/68376 09:54:23 hmm 09:54:28 how weird 09:54:32 uhhh 09:54:35 try rebooting then running the same commands 09:55:58 Taneb: failing that 09:56:03 look for the repair program in the menus anyway 09:56:03 :P 09:56:17 Okay, bye 09:56:20 -!- Taneb has quit. 09:59:41 itidus22: yes 10:01:42 using my power of google search 10:07:15 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:08:48 cheater_: cheater_ 10:10:45 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:12:28 Hmm, lighting might be inefficient if I do it the way I was going to... 10:20:00 -!- derdon has joined. 10:24:25 -!- rszeno has joined. 10:24:49 hello everybody 10:25:30 hi 10:26:52 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:33:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:34:09 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:35:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:35:50 Well, that didn't work 10:35:52 Also, Hello! 10:37:58 Taneb: Show me the URL? (In /mgs.) 10:38:00 *msg 10:38:12 elliott: it didn't work at all 10:38:16 I'm making a fresh live usb 10:38:20 That's not very specific. 10:38:23 Did you mean it ran out of space again? 10:38:30 If yes, making a new live medium won't help. 10:39:02 It means I tried to make more space and it went horribly wrong while attempting that 10:39:49 Very well, then. 10:39:57 Oh, right, USB sticks are mutable. 10:40:03 I guess that's why it didn't try to install it to a RAM fs. 10:40:05 Erm. 10:40:06 Yeah. 10:40:09 *FS. 10:40:18 OK, let me know when you have the new live medium booted. 10:40:49 Taneb: You could alternatively download http://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files/, which has it pre-installed. 10:40:57 (And use unetbootin to put it on your USB stick.) 10:41:07 Finished Portal 2. The ending was brilliant. 10:41:45 Right 10:44:03 Finish the weather game. The ending is tight. And also sweet. Or so I hear. 10:47:03 Also didn't Portal 2's user-generated content steam workshop thing just come out? That doesn't sound very finishable. 10:47:04 Weather game? 10:47:14 Sgeo: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/20 10:47:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:48:13 heh 10:48:23 ion, did you do the 2-player thing? 10:48:32 fizzie: The single-player main game, duh. :-P 10:48:42 sgeo: That’s next in TODO. :-) 10:49:08 It doesn't take long. 10:49:36 At least the actual playthrough part. In my case, locating a second player did. 10:50:33 Played through a bit with a random 10:50:40 Played through most of it with a friend 10:52:26 Played through it with the built-in voice thing, and got some comments about how nonsensical it sounds to a third-party observer who's not watching the screen, just having to listen to (one side) of the speaking. 10:52:43 lol 10:55:35 I don't suppose Perpetual Testing Initiative supports the making of coooopy test chambers? 10:57:02 portal 2 co-op is one of the most mentally taxing video game experiences i've had 10:58:02 you have to coordinate motor skills, spatial reasoning, abstract problem solving, and communicating with another person 10:58:22 you have to like make up words to describe the stuff in the level so you can coordinate 10:58:28 :-) 10:59:44 I don't know, I think it went along quite naturally. I suppose it might depend somewhat on the another person, though. 11:01:16 kmc 11:02:39 kmc did you get lisztomania yet 11:02:47 no 11:02:49 it is a maserwork 11:02:54 masterwork too 11:03:01 fizzie: i was kinda drunk too 11:03:10 it beats zardoz 11:03:15 haha 11:03:19 but not el topo 11:03:26 but nearly 11:04:17 I see there's 39690 entries in the thing already, and it's been out, what, three days? 11:04:46 fizzie, in what thing? 11:05:01 Portal 2's community-generated-map steam-workshop thing. 11:05:57 oh 11:09:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:10:17 elliott, installed the ISO on the USB 11:10:28 OK, boot it and use boot-repair. 11:10:53 (It might end up downgrading GRUB, but that'll get fixed the next time Ubuntu updates it.) 11:14:26 Okay, I can't get wifi, it seems 11:14:30 -!- cheater_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 11:14:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:15:06 -!- cheater_ has joined. 11:15:31 Taneb: Doesn't matte.r 11:15:33 *matter. 11:16:40 It needs internet to run the thingy 11:16:41 The red component of the diffuse reflection color. 11:16:53 Taneb: Oh, right. 11:17:00 Taneb: Well... try the Ubuntu live medium again. 11:17:02 So, I've plugged in an ethernet cable 11:17:47 It seems to be working 11:18:36 Yaey. 11:19:25 Together we're invincible 11:19:55 Oooh, url time 11:19:57 Rip. 11:21:21 Let's see if this works 11:21:53 YES 11:21:55 YES 11:21:56 YES 11:21:59 Thank you elliott! 11:22:11 :) 11:22:15 Congraetulationse and yuoruea welcomae 11:23:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:24:17 -!- Taneb has quit. 11:25:47 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:28:56 elliott: Any comments about the pronunciation in the videos? 11:28:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:29:08 I’m curious about the R thing. :-) 11:29:15 ion: I still didn't click them (and probably can't be bothered to unless you relink). 11:29:50 03:13 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5867126092237181778 11:29:53 02:16 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229002293145728844 11:30:49 ion: Ah, the "viaRa" thing. 11:31:06 I think you'll find that were the narrator to end a sentence with "via", it would sound the same (with the perceived "r"). 11:31:17 Actually, not really. 11:31:33 I'm not sure exactly what's going on there -- you'd have to ask a linguist -- but the "r" seems rather implicit. 11:31:58 -!- const has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:32:00 As in, it's not really there, it's just the two sounds adjacent to each other that end up bridged by one. 11:32:08 * elliott checks the second video. 11:32:16 (You realise Look Around You is on YouTube, right?) 11:32:47 Yeah, it's definitely a quirk of the (deliberately exaggerated) accent. 11:33:22 I just clicked on the first video results for my search terms, they happened to be at video.google.com. :-) 11:33:55 Ask augur. :p 11:34:24 augur: Ask augur. :p 11:35:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:35:38 Hello! 11:35:43 It's beautiful 11:36:09 I'm not. :''''''( 11:36:18 :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''( 11:36:27 elliott: You are beautiful. 11:36:35 Betaful. 11:36:39 :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 11:36:39 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''( 11:36:53 bæutiful 11:37:06 elliott, if I could comment on your beauty, the universe would explode 11:37:14 hålp 11:37:16 elliott: You should prefix that with @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo 11:37:25 @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hjålp 11:37:25 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo @ 11:37:25 echo hj\195\165lp"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"# 11:37:25 esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\195\\165lp\"]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/ 11:37:25 elliott\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\\\195\\\\165lp\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", 11:37:25 msgLBName = \\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\", msgPrefix = \\\\\\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@@ @ 11:37:27 echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\\\\\\\195\\\\\\\\165lp\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\"hj\\\\\\\\195\\\\\\\\165lp\\\\\\\"\\\"\"" 11:37:40 oh dear 11:37:45 @echo foo 11:37:45 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo foo"]} 11:37:45 rest:"foo" 11:38:04 I wonder if saying @print-notices in public would have lambdabot leak @tells to the channel, or if it has prevention against that. 11:38:09 (Not that I'm going to test.) 11:38:28 You could test it in a private channel? 11:38:37 Well, I'd have to make lambdabot join it. 11:38:41 Ah, true 11:38:42 But I suppose I could. 11:39:07 lambdabot: y u so racist 11:39:15 escaping non-ascii characters like they're second-class citizens 11:39:21 You can also “@time” any channel lambdabot is on (and any other channel without +n). 11:39:34 @time #haskell 11:40:01 Answer: yes, @print-notices works in public. 11:40:11 Unless it has a special case for channels with only one person in them!!!! 11:40:37 .@quit 11:40:45 (That felt too scary to even risk a space in front of.) 11:40:51 hah 11:41:52 i'm watching british TV from a youtube video which was captured by a screengrab program from the channel4.com website flash player 11:41:57 hooray computers 11:42:12 Not 4oD? 11:42:16 I have the Look Around You DVDs. 11:42:26 Maybe I should upload them to YouTube in HIGH-DEFINITION. :p 11:42:32 (I assume that's what kmc's watching, given the context, but maybe not.) 11:42:36 Wait, Look Around You is BBC. 11:42:44 My country is complicated. : ( 11:42:47 Hjålp. 11:43:04 Wait, it's "hjälp"? 11:43:05 I should get the LAY DVDs, too. 11:43:09 That's shitty. 11:43:17 Twice the dots! 11:43:20 hjälp sounds Swedish. 11:43:25 hjålp looks funnier, though. 11:43:28 ion: It is. 11:43:41 -!- elliott has set topic: hjålp http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 11:43:43 Hjålp would be pronounced hjolp. 11:43:59 Not in my mind. :( 11:44:08 elliott: no, I'm watching Peep Show 11:44:10 With a hard j or a soft j? 11:44:16 kmc: Same thing. 11:44:32 "Look Around Your DVDs", the show about how to keep your DVD collection in order. 11:44:32 taneb: As in “yes”, i think. 11:44:57 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity512.html 11:46:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: walking dog tiem). 11:47:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:49:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:45 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:51:40 ƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒ 11:51:51 †_† 11:51:58 h¡alp 11:52:07 h√alp 11:52:12 ≤hjalp≥ 11:52:25 hjÚlp 11:53:06 http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60DDD0F77698B8EB 11:53:08 <3 <3 <3 11:53:37 Meanwhile in the 2370s https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/542294_467069256642918_122908054392375_2060207_456662483_n.jpg 11:53:41 SimonRC: Hey, you haven't said a single thing in 2012. 11:53:59 SimonRC: Rectify this. 11:54:12 kmc do you ever eat steak? 11:54:46 elliott: He has spoken twice via HackEgo. 11:55:17 Is that like when you contact the dead via a medium? 11:55:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:58:25 Hello 11:58:30 Taneb: More like Benat, rightt? 11:58:31 *right? 11:58:48 Benat and Dvegn. 11:58:48 Oh god how did you know 11:58:58 wat 11:59:20 ≈hjålp≈ 11:59:57 "Taneb" is a reversal of a portmanteau of contractions of my and my brother's names 12:00:23 Oh, is the "nat" for "Nathan"? 12:01:22 -!- _niels has joined. 12:01:43 `welcome _niels 12:01:51 ​_niels: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:01:56 <_niels> thanks, elliott 12:02:11 elliott, yes 12:02:56 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:04:02 <_niels> > 2 + 2 12:04:03 4 12:04:08 <_niels> =] 12:04:49 -!- _niels has left. 12:04:52 > let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs 12:04:53 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... 12:04:55 What, already? 12:05:08 How can you recognise lambdabot and give up on #esoteric that quickly? 12:05:58 ^rainbow hjålp 12:05:58 hjålp 12:06:08 fizzie: Please fix fungot's Unicode support. It's not that hard. :( 12:06:08 elliott: i haven't looked. :p " nanotechnology" " i want") 12:08:32 Install skype, recieve call on skype, skype freezes 12:08:33 :/ 12:11:50 I suppose I should, since it'd just be a single preprocessing step thingie, since the fungespace cells are quite capable of holding any codepoints. 12:12:06 :') 12:12:41 On the other hand, is hjÄ¥lp really so bad? 12:13:58 Yes. 12:14:04 It has completely ruined the purity of the hjålp. 12:14:23 (Technically I must note that it'd also be a postprocessing step thingy.) 12:14:27 But think how much more useful ^ord would become! 12:15:46 fizzie: Maybe I'LL do it. 12:15:50 ^source 12:15:50 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 12:16:04 fizzie: Where's the read loop. :( 12:16:22 Line 56 does the main read. 12:16:41 Though I suppose it could as well go into the bit where it has extracted a full line out. 12:17:08 fizzie: Would that work for: UNICODE USERNAMES? 12:17:24 I suppose I could iterate over all of them or something. 12:17:33 But it seems like it'd be easier to just turn one string into one string. 12:17:56 This is complicated. :( 12:18:01 It's still turning just one string into one string when you do it after it's extracted a single line, before it gets split into fields. 12:18:44 That'd be around line 73; the parts below it expect there to be a single complete line somewhere. 12:19:00 fizzie: Oh, I see what you mean. 12:19:06 Why would it be better to do it there, out of curiosity? 12:19:16 (Also would this break the ^bf interpreter's input?) 12:19:57 I suppose the only reason why it'd be better to do it after line-splitting (as opposed to immediately after the R) is that you wouldn't have to deal with incomplete UTF-8 sequences. 12:21:17 At line 73, there's a single full line on fungespace line 3 that could be deutfied. (Based on the fact that the prefix-looking bit starts with 03g':-.) 12:21:37 "fungespace line 3"? 12:21:54 You know, Y=3, X=0, 1, 2, ... and so on. 12:22:12 Wouldn't that be fungespace line 73? 12:22:14 (But that ^bf thing still worries me.) 12:22:21 *And that, I suppose. 12:22:48 No, I mean, the data is stored on "physical" Y-coordinate 3. 12:23:08 Ah, you mean the line itself? 12:23:10 Yes. 12:23:15 OK. 12:23:19 Where's output done? (And what about bf?!?!?!) 12:23:26 *^bf 12:24:54 I guess you'd need to do something w.r.t. ^bf, yes. I'm not entirely sure what. All the current programs are written in the "one cell, one character" logic. 12:25:11 Hmm, I suppose that's actually what you want, if you want things like ^rainbow to work. 12:25:15 But OTOH, that would break the 8-bitness of it. 12:25:18 Which is unfortunate. 12:25:20 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:25:33 Right. Though I'm not sure if there's anything that really depends on the 8-bit wrapping. 12:25:47 In the existing programs people have used, that is. 12:25:54 Well, it's still nice to have, considering it's the only usable BF interpreter in the channel. 12:26:03 I suppose I could just fix ^rainbow itself. 12:26:14 But knowing how many characters to wait before changing to the next colour in BF sounds... painful. 12:26:19 BF doesn't exactly have bitwise and. 12:26:45 That is a true statement. 12:29:40 As for output, it's slightly more complicated. There are in fact several places that write to the socket. 12:29:57 fungot is rather badly-designed! 12:29:57 elliott: so do we still lack that thing anyway. 12:30:01 fungot: Yes. 12:30:02 elliott: there's not much point. its always visible. only that too bloated is far better, qdb is inexplicably beating it in times. 12:30:13 fungot: You're always visible? 12:30:14 elliott: pygments is great. i cannot find -the- implementation for my first time here, can i make http://paste.phpfi.com/ fnord ( looks like we gonna have fun 12:30:15 Too bloated is far better, yes. 12:30:36 fungot: You apparently can't make it, since that pastebin seems to have died. Are we really gonna have fun? 12:30:43 fizzie: That wasn't 5 lines. 12:31:00 It's supposed to be four, I think. But it wasn't four either. 12:31:18 Maybe you had some leftovers from a previous discussion. 12:31:31 fizzie: Make it speak to me. :( 12:31:38 fungot: Speak to elliott. 12:31:38 fizzie: it doesn't seem to support define-syntax? ( beyond the obvious mere existence of c code) 12:31:47 elliott: Do you support define-syntax? 12:31:54 No. No macros for me. :( 12:31:59 fungot: You were right. 12:31:59 fizzie: multithreading is of course more productive in scheme, avoid set!, how would you fnord it? you can tell 12:32:03 fungot: The mere existence of C code isn't obvious to me! Sent from my @puter 12:32:03 elliott: what scheme system? probably. it'll be crazy and do your own thing" language. but to use a us keyboard mapping 12:32:25 fungot: No, not Scheme; @lang. It is, indeed, a "crazy and does my own thing" language. 12:32:25 elliott: well, maybe i need to 12:32:26 It's much about Scheme today. 12:32:33 fungot: Use @? Yes, you should. It's perfect. 12:32:33 elliott: you know c++? with templates? its just some number of continuations, though, 12:32:49 fungot: No! It's nothing like C++, and templates are an abomination! And what do continuations have to do with this? 12:32:49 elliott: it will work. i'll be here all week. try the --large command-line option. 12:32:55 fungot --large 12:33:07 fungot: You're such a silly. 12:33:07 fizzie: ' you have to go 12:33:12 Oh dear. 12:33:15 fungot: Rebelling against your maker, are we? 12:33:15 elliott: i am in error, by the way, 12:33:26 fungot: Sounds like you're having a breakdown. 12:33:26 elliott: mm-hmm. openbsd does some tricky under-the-hood trickery ( not quite, sorry. :p 12:33:28 In fact it was correct, I *do* have to go. 12:33:39 fungot: The trickery is tricky? Astonishing. 12:33:39 elliott: you, sir)) to use set! anywhere else? 12:33:46 fizzie: I think he's going to mutate you. 12:33:50 *it's 12:33:52 (Sorry, fungot.) 12:33:52 elliott: please input two numbers to get the hostesses released! give them their own lines produces ugly output.) also, did you know 12:33:52 Scary. 12:33:59 fungot: 3 7 12:34:06 fizzie: Don't worry, you're free now. 12:34:23 fungot: You're so irrational. 12:34:23 fizzie: are you a student or professional? " i don't really understand what and how you can interpret it as " the wire" 12:34:41 fungot: Well, he doesn't study, and he's not professional. 12:34:42 elliott: recruit them for me even in rlwrap ( ie doesn't quit) 12:34:50 fungot: You still want to recruit him knowing that? 12:34:50 elliott: so the point is that bill richter interprets incorrectly and out of it. 12:35:03 fungot: Bill Ritcher, eh? 12:35:03 elliott: it ran... i ran upon a problem and found that 99% of them would not be useful 12:35:09 fungot: Technically speaking I guess I am a student. I have a study right and all, I just enrolled the other day. 12:35:10 fizzie: i may be imagining others, though, by about 12% of the us, too. 12:35:12 fungot: It's true, most problems aren't very useful at all. 12:35:12 elliott: don't you have more than one? the interactive fiction language? 12:35:30 fungot: There are... multiple languages for writing interactive fiction in, yes. 12:35:30 elliott: fnord/ fnord/ fnord question 2. polecat, fnord, fnord 12:35:31 Okay, I have to be going out now to see a man about a horse. (Well, no. But anyway.) 12:35:35 fungot: Oh, come on. 12:35:36 elliott: that's a bit more complex, but i think most scheme-c compilers compile for something that isn't c or bash :) ( there's also a function plotter, if i remember 12:36:54 -!- rszeno has left. 12:43:14 -!- derdon has joined. 12:43:34 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:53:25 cheater_: yeah i eat steak 12:53:31 once i cooked a steak sous vide 12:53:32 it was great 12:56:42 do u know how sous vide works cheater_ 12:57:13 as a poor diabetic, the things i crave most of all are fried potato chips and various kinds of kfc chicken pieces 12:58:06 also.. false teeth like movie stars have which are like screwon 12:58:19 i fricken hate toothaches 12:59:28 Well, the creator of Fortress Craft has replied to TWICE as many tweets of mine as the creator of Minecraft 12:59:34 Clearly the former is a superior game 13:00:04 kmc: i have never tried, but i should 13:00:44 i did it with minimal equipment 13:00:50 just a pot of water, a ziploc bag, and a candy thermometer 13:01:30 Taneb: Hmm, DjArcas. Is that the loudmouthed moron they got to promote that thing? 13:01:35 I forget who it was. 13:01:41 But I think it started with "Dj". 13:01:46 the next step up is a beer cooler 13:01:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:02:14 kmc: yeah, i know it's "easy" 13:02:27 elliott, I believe he's also the creator 13:02:28 i don't have a candy thermometer, why do you need that specifically? 13:02:35 speaking of candy 13:02:40 the steak i cooked today was amazing 13:02:47 it was like flesh-flavoured candy 13:03:02 All I remember is reports of him flipping out and calling people gay at the slightest provocation. 13:03:04 Good PR. 13:03:46 i fried it in french orange mustard (nearly like jam/jelly), with red peppers and ginger, and some italian mustard apples 13:03:49 ("The slightest provocation" being "people saying they don't like FortressCraft".) 13:04:04 -!- variable has joined. 13:05:39 Sounds like him, yeah 13:08:27 is fortresscraft better? 13:08:47 It looks nicer 13:09:31 i probably would have bought minecraft if i had online money.. 13:09:34 (For bad values of "better".) 13:09:38 (Especially if you use Painterly on the Minecraft side.) 13:10:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: TIME TO GO). 13:10:15 which is not something i enjoy thinking about today because i just gave my mum all my money, and apparently have to visit both my grandmas for mothers day 13:11:24 and in the back of my mind with games like this im always telling myself i could do this better, and i could be richer from this, if only i was the one who did it 13:13:37 and why are 500% more people registering at minecraft.net than buying the game!?! 13:17:04 cheater_: you need a thermometer because the point of sous vide is to keep the meat at a constant temperature for a long time 13:17:08 so that the inside reaches that temperature 13:17:56 it doesn't need to be a candy thermometer specifically 13:18:27 but you want like a couple °F precision, in the range 130°F to 140°F 13:18:44 cheap candy thermometer has these properties and can be found in a regular grocery store 13:20:35 my life sucks in a first world problems kind of way. if only i could exploit the problems in my life for capitalist gain. 13:21:28 you know what 13:21:35 i have an electric hotplate 13:21:47 i bet you could arduino a sous vide automat 13:22:55 i'll totally do it once i can buy a power relay 13:23:29 yes 13:23:42 relay is easy, you probably want feedback though 13:23:57 the feedback is the thermometer 13:24:00 and the fagduino 13:24:21 i tried to build a temperature controller for another project but i fried the thermocouple driver chip due to failure to read datasheet 13:24:24 however it's not hard in principle 13:24:58 could this be my unique chance to do something useful with a PID 13:25:21 that was for soldering oven temperatures and so a thermocouple was probably the right answer 13:25:21 wonders if fried the thermocouple almost counts as a pun in the topic of cooking 13:25:42 http://arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary 13:25:45 haha 13:25:53 "processing.org frontend" 13:26:02 yeah, i can create a sous vide visualization 13:26:09 for sous vide temperatures you could use a 1-wire temperature sensor like DS18B20 13:26:14 and veejay it to remote places via direct isdn uplink 13:26:29 even on sparkfun it's only $10 in a sealed package: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11050 13:26:29 how do you know so much about electronics kmc 13:27:17 and that will interface directly to any microcontroller 13:27:21 i should do this 13:27:25 you should 13:27:27 i already have the heating element too 13:27:28 for great glory 13:27:37 i was dreading it because i forgot it would be much easier than the thermocouple thing 13:27:40 why not make it work with a hotplate 13:28:11 hm this one suggests a rice cooker 13:28:27 hotplate is easier, because more people have one and it's cheap and small 13:28:39 more approachable for people 13:28:51 rice cooker is too small to hold multiple large steaks 13:28:54 a rice cooker is a fairly specific utensil you normally don't have 13:28:55 yea 13:28:59 i think i'll go for the beer cooler with the heating element i already have 13:29:10 that too, i was just going to say you could just use a big pot 13:29:11 which won't be enough to get it up to temp 13:29:11 hmm 13:29:14 beer cooler? 13:29:21 but should keep it at temp 13:29:25 so i will just fill it with hot water to start 13:29:36 i wouldn't be so sure 13:29:52 from experience, heating stuff is a thing that either works or doesn't 13:29:55 i don't know if "beer cooler" is the right term 13:30:06 i mean like those insulated plastic bins you pack with ice and beer 13:30:10 there's no way to "give it a shove" 13:30:19 ice chest? 13:30:33 yeah 13:30:46 something like this http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1342596&cp=11925755.2614192 13:31:00 -!- nortti has joined. 13:31:45 ice chest 13:32:04 or yeah, just Rubbermaid® Victory Cooler 13:32:18 hey kmc, what do u think of my idea 13:32:31 i was looking at alsa paints last night when i couldn't sleep 13:32:36 and i noticed they have a rubberizing paint 13:32:44 so: keyboard with rubberized keycaps? 13:32:55 "Like" or "Fail"? 13:33:17 i would have to try it cheater 13:33:39 yeah, i think so too 13:33:49 but like, rubberized knobs on equipment are the dog's bollocks 13:34:09 and they use this paint for cutlery and other daily use stuff, so it's not something that'll wear off 13:34:52 these coolers are pretty well insulated so I think a small heater should suffice to maintain temperature 13:35:22 i wish they had ratings in watts per kelvin or whatever 13:35:42 notice "pretty well insulated" still means if you have ice in it then it'll melt fairly quickly 13:35:59 you'd need a heater which can at least withstand the amount of energy being expelled 13:36:22 which is probably very near to the heater that you need to heat it up in the first place 13:36:31 why not just buy a 10 bucks hotplate? 13:36:53 sounds like the rational choice 13:36:56 i don't see how that follows cheater 13:37:00 in fact, we should write an article on rationalwiki 13:37:16 which part can you not see the logical sequence of, kmc? 13:37:47 getting a bunch of water from 23°C to 57°C in an acceptable amount of time will take a much larger heater than keeping it at 57° in an insulated container 13:37:55 -!- elliott has left. 13:38:57 you're probably right 13:39:04 i'm gonna run the numbers, one sec 13:39:05 but i am not sure either way 13:39:11 right, there's physics 13:39:29 but how can you measure the amount of heat being lost through the insulation? 13:39:42 i will approximate it by the thermal conductivity of styrofoam 13:40:21 if you have the area and thickness 13:40:31 although the edges will be less conductive 13:42:16 let's say a cube 30 cm on a side with 3 cm styrofoam insulation 13:42:26 yea 13:42:39 work your magic, carl 13:42:56 that's 0.54 m² surface area 13:43:45 thermal conductivity of styrofoam is 0.03 W / (K * m) according to A Website 13:44:03 wikipedia 13:44:09 0.03 W / (K * m) * 0.54 m² / 3 cm * (57 - 23) K 13:44:14 = 18 watts 13:44:46 is your heating element 18 watts 13:44:56 and i'd double up on that 13:45:20 a cheap hotplate is like 800 watts 13:45:27 yup 13:45:32 i don't know about my element 13:45:48 so kmc 13:45:48 it's like a small thing you put in a mug of water to make tea 13:45:50 show me your element 13:45:54 brb 13:45:58 *nudge nudge* 13:46:27 http://www.amazon.com/Travel-Immersion-Water-Heater-Voltage/dp/B000AXS0UE 13:46:33 Heating immersion 125 watt coil quickly heats up water 13:46:44 i am suggesting this is similar to your thing 13:47:03 HOWEVER, you might be in for a problem 13:47:11 it says 125 W 13:47:18 there you go 13:47:19 yes it's exactly like that one 13:47:23 i totally oracled you 13:47:30 i am you from the future 13:47:50 the problem is in normal sous vide cooking, you're heating a hot plate which heats a pot which heats water which heats the meat 13:48:05 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:48:16 a lot of very sluggish heat capacitance 13:48:29 it works like a low pass filter for heat 13:48:33 and also spreads it evenly 13:48:40 here you are heating water directly which heats the meat 13:48:44 you might end up with a pocket of heat 13:48:58 which may or may not be advisable 13:49:32 either way, the pot full of water is by far most of the thermal mass 13:49:38 yeah 13:49:43 it is 13:49:52 wait 13:49:57 in sous vide you put a pot in a pot 13:49:58 right? 13:50:00 so i think this cooler full of water will hold temperature fine 13:50:09 or am i wrong here 13:50:12 might need something to circulate the water though 13:50:16 cheater_: not necessarily 13:50:24 yeah i thought you might need the circulation 13:50:25 you put food inside a bag inside a water bath 13:50:30 so have you ever made sous vide before? 13:50:34 yes 13:50:37 i did sous vide steak twice 13:50:37 was it good? 13:50:44 it was delicious 13:50:52 what was the difference 13:50:56 i did like 135°F for an hour 13:51:17 it's just a foolproof way to get the exact level of rare / well-done you like 13:51:27 an hour is not that long 13:51:31 yeah it's not 13:51:33 i thought the idea was to have it on very long 13:51:38 some sous vide recipes are like 24 hours plus 13:51:43 but for beef it's not necessary apparently 13:51:45 i cooked steaks in a pot for an hour 13:51:48 you just need to get the inside up to temperature 13:51:54 like with sauce 13:52:12 oh i didn't know that 13:52:18 when is 24 hours mandatory? 13:52:21 i don't know 13:53:04 k 13:53:09 i'm no chef, i can barely cook kraft mac & cheese 13:53:18 but the sous vide stuff seemed easy and fun and sciency 13:53:19 hurr 13:53:26 yeah, steak comes natural to me too 13:53:36 i go to restaurants and they never make it as good as i do 13:53:40 with sous vde steak you do want to fry or grill it briefly 13:53:42 but i can't cook for my life 13:53:45 yeah 13:53:48 sear 13:53:50 actually 13:53:50 to get the outside all burnt & crispy 13:53:51 yeah 13:53:58 i bought a steel pan especially for steak 13:54:08 but i wouldn't do this candied steak in it 13:54:19 wonder if a crème brûlée torch would work 13:54:22 had to use a tefal pan because you gotta burn the mustard 13:54:30 so that it carmelizes 13:54:33 caramelizes 13:54:34 mm 13:54:42 creme brulee wouldn't work 13:54:48 because the thing has to sear into the meat 13:54:57 mostly i fry stuff in cast iron pans 13:55:20 what i did was spread a 4 mm coat of that mustard on the cold pan where the steak would be 13:55:33 i put the steak on that and put the pan on the heat 13:55:41 waited until it started searing 13:55:46 no oil or anything 13:55:52 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 13:56:43 i applied spices (lots of ginger, it disappears later on, lots of red pepper) and then put the mustard on the top (still raw side) 13:56:44 flip once 13:56:59 sear the other side 13:57:05 the first side looked really nice too 13:57:17 you know the mustard is carmelizing when it starts foaming up 13:58:15 the mustard you want isn't the usual sour stuff, it should look like orange jelly, the kind you put on toast, but it tastes tart 13:58:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:59:25 hey kmc do you know the difference between vector and superscalar? 14:05:07 in processors? 14:05:29 yeah 14:05:30 that steak sounds really nice 14:05:34 i found out already tho 14:05:36 k 14:05:42 yeah it was amazing 14:05:50 i did it several times now and it's always better 14:05:58 trying to perfect the recipe 14:06:09 next time i'll use much more ginger because it was like not there at all 14:07:20 ginger is good 14:07:22 and maybe long pepper 14:07:25 do you ever cook with szechuan pepper 14:07:33 i was thinking of it 14:07:35 but it wouldn't fit 14:07:47 the one i have is too alkaline 14:07:53 for lack of a better description 14:08:02 this stuff is sweet and sour 14:08:07 and bitter 14:08:38 have you ever tried long pepper 14:08:48 i've never heard of it until i found it at a christmas fair last year 14:09:23 or should i say 14:09:26 winter solstice fair 14:09:26 heh 14:12:19 kmc: apparently ebay has a lot of ready pid controllers 14:12:25 you just search for "temperature kiln" 14:16:13 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:16:16 cool 14:16:37 wow super cheap 14:17:15 what's the cheapest you found? 14:17:25 i'll probably build it myself though 14:17:44 it should be a super easy build 14:17:58 and it would amuse me to have something that plugs into my laptop 14:18:16 is pid that easy 14:18:19 and a good excuse to learn some basic control theory 14:18:30 yeah the learning is there for me too 14:18:35 the incentive 14:18:47 it would be cool to see the temperature graph with the element on/off indications 14:18:50 in realtime 14:19:11 http://www.instructables.com/id/Segstick/ here's a fun build project, which includes some PID control 14:19:17 hard realtime or soft realtime 14:19:24 lol just soft 14:19:25 *niggle* 14:19:26 just for UI 14:19:36 i'm just fucking with ya. 14:19:41 cheater_ you niggler 14:20:02 kmc you crackler 14:21:18 snap crackle and php 14:27:12 :( 14:28:07 ? for some reason I have internationale on my touhou playlist... 14:34:38 it's funny 14:34:44 i'm learning basic italian 14:34:49 and i can already understand some spanish 14:34:54 those languages are closer than i thought 14:35:03 it's not like polish and czech or latvian or russian 14:35:10 which are pretty close themselves 14:35:37 or like german and dutch 14:39:42 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:43:28 Uh 14:43:32 cheater_ Latcvia 14:43:40 cheater_ Latvian isn't close to Slavic languages really 14:43:55 Did you mean Latvian vs. Lithuanian?" 14:43:57 Those are closer 14:46:40 no i meant to polish 14:47:01 ;o 14:51:59 cheater_: i might visit baltic states / eastern europe / etc this summer 14:52:03 anywhere i should go or avoid? 14:52:12 yes 14:52:16 baltic states 14:52:17 to both 14:52:46 but more so to the latter 14:52:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:52:55 much more 14:53:25 unless you will go to jail if you don't go to said baltic states, there's no reason to go there 14:53:43 any amount of illness or misfortune is preferable 14:59:12 kmc: did you figure out if Touch is good or bad yet 15:01:58 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4567.html 15:08:19 cheater_: it's definitely very bad 15:08:22 but also kind of interesting 15:08:37 ok not watching 15:10:57 the math / science / philosophy is beyond nonsensical 15:11:01 like, i can suspend disbelief 15:11:25 i'm not one of those people who will complain because a character says "centrifugal" instead of "centripetal", or that the Linux box looks more like a SunOS 2 machine 15:11:34 but this show is really pushing it 15:11:54 is it like Numbers 15:12:05 it's far worse than NUMB3RS 15:12:19 it's like the movie Pi except without the good writing or acting or directing 15:13:17 a lot of it reminds me of the trailer for The Numberwang Code 15:13:25 i could never watch it 15:13:30 like this kid writes a 6 on a piece of paper and everyone is like "WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!??" 15:13:30 on the other hand Pi was amazing 15:13:44 it means 15:13:46 NUMBERWANG!!! 15:13:51 this other guy has a win-big hold 'em poker strategy which is based entirely on him memorizing a short sequence of small numbers 15:13:53 they should really make a fictional film with 100% mathematical and scientific accuracy 15:14:03 the same sequence which is also the key to life the universe and everything 15:14:20 they also just make other shit up whenever it suits them 15:14:38 like they decided that the ISS has regular blackout periods where they can't communicate with earth 15:14:41 have you never had a situation like Pi in your life 15:14:42 just because it suits the plot 15:14:43 like 15:14:55 sitting around in your flat for weeks not going out 15:14:58 hacking away at some shit 15:15:04 then you come out and everyone feels so alien 15:15:12 i think that's what pi is about 15:15:13 then you get kidnapped by orthodox jews 15:15:19 then you drill your brains out with a power drill and go to heaven 15:15:21 ^ 15:15:21 yes that's happened to me 15:15:38 cheater_: i have experienced that... but to me it's not just people but the entire environment 15:15:38 also one time i was riding the subway and found a bare human brain sitting on the platform 15:15:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:15:47 kmc ok then you know what i mean 15:15:53 itidus22: yeah, exactly 15:16:09 yeah i know that feeling... i don't particularly enjoy it 15:16:21 infact i dread it 15:16:22 ok so what else about Touch 15:16:36 they are really unsubtle about the simplistic emotions you are supposed to experience while watching it 15:16:45 i haven't seen pi thouhg 15:16:45 itidus22: it's weird alright 15:16:50 itidus22: you should 15:17:08 the dialogue is terrible, a lot of it is just characters saying things they would never realistically say so that the audience is not confused 15:17:21 kmc: sounds like everything i hate about tv series 15:17:35 chea:so.. if the problem is gradually being identified maybe i can get a pill or therapy for it within a decade! 15:17:37 ahhh 15:17:41 cheater_: so.. if the problem is gradually being identified maybe i can get a pill or therapy for it within a decade! 15:17:54 just do what the character did in the end 15:17:58 worked for him 15:18:05 i have a plan.. 15:18:09 i certainly have a plan 15:18:14 but do you have a drill? 15:18:21 also they had a blatant Magic Negro character but I guess i already complained about that 15:18:22 uh no 15:18:49 16:22 restate my assumptions: 1. kmc is a troll 15:18:53 haha 15:19:00 @remember 16:22 restate my assumptions: 1. kmc is a troll 15:19:00 It is stored. 15:19:18 cheater_: but you said he was hacking away at something... and you're saying this wasn't enough to save him 15:19:20 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:19:21 thats a concern 15:19:32 is the problem that he didn't hack away good enough? 15:19:34 just watch the movie 15:19:41 no he hacked to good 15:19:45 itidus22: no the problem is that he was too good 15:19:46 he totally disconnected 15:19:47 you should watch it 15:19:49 he was in the flow for too long 15:19:51 in the zone 15:19:52 then you should watch Requiem for a Dream 15:20:14 he was so deep into it he completely dissociated the real world 15:20:17 then you'll probably want to die 15:20:26 i was gonna watch requiem 15:20:28 but didn't 15:20:32 you should 15:20:34 it's a really good film 15:20:35 should i 15:20:38 with good music 15:20:39 yes 15:21:09 cheater_: what i have realized is that the problem i have centers around the whole idea of reflecting on past information with new information 15:21:19 unnecessarily 15:21:21 Requiem.For.A.Dream.2000.720p.BluRay.x264-SiNNERS.mkv 15:21:26 when the past information is just fine as it is 15:21:33 itidus22: no idea what you mean. 15:22:05 well.. like the focuses of an adult are different than those of a child 15:22:35 and.. after, lets say, spending too much time indoors and concentrating on certain ideas 15:22:52 then.. we have new perspectives with which to view our past 15:23:00 but if these new perspectives are garbage 15:23:26 are they 15:23:36 if they're depressing they are 15:23:38 i realized last year i don't hate buttermilk 15:23:43 i did as a kid having never tried any 15:23:58 because butter + milk = yech 15:24:01 the new perspective wasn't garbage 15:25:03 and lets say.. activites we once enjoyed which we think are silly now 15:25:09 why should they be silly? 15:25:33 -!- variable has joined. 15:25:47 anyway, isolation probably isn't good 15:25:57 but isolation is hard to really escape 15:26:46 cheater_: hah.. heres the video i recommend for the protagonist of Pi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCnHWas3HQ 15:26:53 the words are very telling 15:27:00 and easy to ignore 15:27:20 imagine this song in the context of Pi 15:28:12 kmc: it starts with violins droning and tuning 15:28:15 totally hipster film 15:28:30 i'll make a tshirt with a screencap 15:28:35 it'll get me the ladies 15:29:08 i always thought this song was just an old-person song 15:33:06 "When you've got worries all the noise and the hurry seems to help, I know." 15:33:21 "Just listen to the music of the traffic in the city." 15:34:26 yeah it's actually a good idea, from a psychiatric point of view 15:34:31 kmc is it ok to be having three stakes 15:34:34 steaks 15:34:35 a day 15:34:39 maybe 15:34:47 i'm gonna cook these two cuts with szechuan pepper 15:34:50 and some german spice 15:35:04 interesting 15:35:11 i don't know if szechuan pepper would go with steak 15:36:08 my favorite dish at the local szechuan restaurant is called "spicy beef with cumin" 15:36:14 i don't know how to describe its properties exactly 15:36:37 the beef is fried in delicious batter or something 15:36:47 and it's super spicy and szechuan-peppery 15:37:21 i think it's fairy different from the spicy hunan beef with cumin that i find easily by google 15:37:27 cheater_: do you know how to make good currywurst sauce 15:37:41 i'm guessing that heinz ketchup + curry powder is not ideal 15:43:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:47:25 no 15:47:32 you need a specific very cheap ketchup 15:47:40 with a lot of starch 15:47:51 er 15:47:53 no wrong 15:48:01 but it's fairly watery and somewhat jelly like 15:48:02 it's sweet 15:49:20 but as you know i am offended by the idea of currywurst 15:49:58 also, tip for authenticity 15:50:11 all currywurst stands have a special currywurst cutter 15:50:17 it's a machine where you enter the currywurst at the top 15:50:44 and it slices it into slices of random 1-2 cm thickness 15:51:05 that is put on a rectangular paper tray 15:51:09 then ketchup on top 15:51:16 and then curry powder at your own leisure 15:51:45 and of course make sure those machines are Turing complete(well, unfortunately that's not possible unless we're talking virtual curryworst) 15:51:56 wurst 15:52:14 wurst, indeed 15:52:35 wurst is better 15:52:45 i've been cutting with knife 15:53:04 your description of the ketchup sounds like standard cheap american ketchup 15:53:09 except for jelly-like 15:53:10 kmc: so this spice i just used, called bockhornkleesaat, seems to be relatively unknown 15:53:24 nah the jelly like is just pedantism on my side, disregard 15:53:26 it's very watery 15:53:38 in germany currywurst is the food of the lowest classes 15:53:55 cheater_: well like salmon swimming against the current, it's easy to forget that relaxing with a bit of sport and a beer can be good for you 15:54:03 cheater_: it's related to fenugreek? 15:54:09 it is fenugreek 15:54:10 the bockhornkleesaat 15:54:12 ok 15:54:12 is it popular? 15:54:16 i have heard of it 15:54:21 it's in every shop here 15:54:28 i have no idea what the hitlers use it for 15:54:36 it's one of those things you look at and have no idea 15:54:44 anyways it goes well with the szechuan pepper 15:54:48 since it's fairly alkaline too 15:54:51 and some rosemary 15:55:03 is it fenugreek seeds or fenugreek leaves? 15:55:15 seed 15:55:20 well 15:55:26 ground 16:05:06 haha 16:05:19 i see two kids shlepping a tv across the city 16:05:21 i think 16:05:46 "i'll tell kmc i see two kids shlepping a tv across the city, and that they probably want to use it to make drugs" 16:05:51 then they start talking about making drugs 16:05:56 lolo 16:06:11 yep 16:06:18 -!- cheater_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 16:06:58 -!- cheater has joined. 16:07:41 whoops 16:07:45 not an emoquit 16:22:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:23:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:26:20 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has joined. 16:33:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:36:33 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:39:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:52:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Narrative&diff=cur&oldid=488999882 17:01:56 @ping 17:01:57 pong 17:02:19 @bacon 17:02:20 Unknown command, try @list 17:02:23 :( 17:03:56 Living witout X has been very easy. It is actually easier for me than living with X 17:03:56 kmc: http://lh6.ggpht.com/-DIU4wNe0EpY/T6DHvL3l0lI/AAAAAAAAWps/utau6yOyKt0/02-Desktop3%25255B5%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 17:04:13 what is alternative to X? 17:04:18 eggs11 17:04:24 eggsorg 17:04:35 or rather, what are you using in place of X? 17:04:39 itidus22: framebuffer and console apps 17:04:51 framebuffer? 17:05:12 itidus22: I am also trying to get ManaGeR to compile (it was designed for Linux 1.x) 17:05:29 what sort of thing is framebuffer? 17:05:37 itidus22: linux framebbuffer, also known as fbdev 17:06:11 nortti: i recently ranted about how gui is bad 17:06:13 :D 17:06:29 maybe you are living the truth 17:06:40 what is ManaGeR 17:06:57 itidus22: it makes possible larger virtual consoles and with it I can use simple graphics in virtual consoles (I use links2 and mplayer with framebuffer) 17:07:46 kmc: very old GUI combining Graphics server, WM and terminal emulator in sama package 17:07:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:03 nortti: the main point of my rant was that windows are not as useful as they propose to be 17:08:19 itidus22: where can I read your rant? 17:08:33 uhh.. it was short... and i didnt complete it but i will find it 17:08:33 itt: http://conal.net/blog/posts/tangible-functional-programming-a-modern-marriage-of-usability-and-composability 17:08:52 humm.. just need to remember what words i used :D 17:09:27 `log [i]tidus multi tasking 17:10:00 No output. 17:10:04 `log [i]tidus multi tasking 17:10:18 No output. 17:10:24 `log [i]tidus multi 17:10:26 `log [i]tidus multitasking 17:10:39 No output. 17:10:40 No output. 17:10:55 theres probably a good explanation for this.. but i will just find it 17:12:16 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-05-09#155943itidus21 17:12:34 in any case for a few pages i ramble about some of these things 17:13:48 so, i didn't fully flesh out my ideas. 17:14:12 but yeah, the gui systems were rushed to market without any real thought 17:15:12 honestly there is no good reason for why you even need multiple windows. 17:16:13 so what we see is that browsers adopt the purely tabbed model... this is how operating systems should really have been 17:16:32 itidus22: do you mean multiple windows as in many windows on screen at the same time or multiple output buffers 17:16:59 many windows on screen... it's just pointless 17:17:22 i know i would feel lost without it. and i would feel greatly deprived of something 17:17:27 but... 17:18:54 i like to have two terminals next to each other 17:18:59 each occupying half the screen 17:19:13 i could do this with screen or emacs instead of X, but that's pretty arbitrary 17:19:15 maybe fixed window shapes is a good idea 17:19:21 i also like to have a browser next to a terminal 17:19:26 itidus22: I thought the same way before I removed X. Now I see no reason to have more than 2 windows on screen at a time 17:19:43 2 windows = like a codex :D 17:19:47 overlapping windows are almost useless though 17:20:11 i mainly use them when i don't want to fight with xmonad's primitive and clunky notion of layout 17:20:19 i am on windows xp though 17:20:36 so overlapping windows is thrusted down upon me 17:21:04 and, perhaps as a sign of my latent intelligence i have dared to question it 17:21:12 itidus22: I tend to use two viewports and swapping windows in and out using gnu screen. I honestly don't see why would anyone need more than two tiled windows 17:21:28 nortti: depends how big your monitor is 17:21:35 nortti: it seems that 2 windows is like when you fold open a book. 17:21:40 the left page and right page 17:21:47 i had a widescreen monitor that would fit three 80-column terminals side by side 17:21:50 that is useful 17:22:57 so perhaps 1 window is "not enough" 17:23:10 and on a widescreen.. 1 window would feel a bit silly 17:23:14 its begging for 2 17:24:39 i think a nice setup is two widescreen monitors, one landscape and one portrait 17:25:21 i don't mind if an application has subwindows etc 17:25:37 but theres no reason for the top level to have subwindows 17:25:54 you might want to see two applications at once? 17:26:09 web browser for docs + terminal for code editor 17:26:10 like it's great for something like photoshop or flash to have lots of little windows 17:27:16 i just remember that when i was using dos.. i never thought "geez i wish i had multiple apps at one time 17:28:03 but i admit that theres good reasons for things 17:28:14 https://images.4chan.org/mu/src/1336752176872.png pic related 17:29:14 qfr++ 17:29:24 itt: real hackers 17:31:30 * itidus22 hides powerdrills from the real nef 17:34:27 oh no.. i am sort of nef 17:35:14 but he has a gf and a laptop 17:36:50 nef uses shubshub caps 17:40:48 i can't quite put a finger on it but i would like to see a form of programming which is [stops to think] ahh humm 17:41:34 what would be the most extreme form of compiler/interpreter writing? perhaps if you wrote the compiler/interpreter only and the computer generated code? 17:41:42 ^source code 17:41:42 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 17:42:09 oh 17:42:18 itidus22: the most extreme form is to BUILD IT OUT OF K'NEX PIECES 17:42:29 i thought fungot was a human for a moment there 17:42:29 itidus22: should be!... ' ed? riastradh, don't have the time 17:43:08 the word extreme was not illustrative on my part 17:43:54 but, if writing source code is about following rules then writing compilers/interpreters is about creating rules 17:44:29 but you always need one to create the other eh 17:45:42 so what do i have in mind? 17:45:59 the BASIC of compiler compilers 17:46:35 lets have 10 year olds writing compilers day in day out 17:46:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:46:50 and stop pretending it's so hard to do 17:46:51 yeah what the world needs is more programming languages designed by ignorant amateurs 17:46:57 exactly 17:47:00 not just a few 17:47:04 millions 17:47:09 after all designing a programming language is just a matter of picking symbols that look nice 17:47:50 srsly though it is cool to show people that compilers aren't magic, here's how they work 17:48:01 but your compiler construction kit may or may not demonstrate that 17:48:13 the problem with my nef project is 17:48:35 that simply having a compiler is not much use on it's own 17:49:28 theres no real reason for kids to even want their own compilers 17:50:06 since their languages will be trashy like a good 30 line BASIC program 17:53:04 i am calling it nef because it is the nef side of me which would propose such a thing even though i am ignorant on so many related fields 17:54:27 i really have this whole contempt for compilers 17:55:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:02:39 the poet in me can explain the issue 18:03:51 from an ocean beach looking at the horizon, the wise man realizes he cannot swim as far as the horizon extends 18:05:20 ion: its called an intrusive r 18:05:22 but the fool is thinking, whether 50 yards or to the extent of the horizon swimming is swimming. 18:05:57 ion: many british english dialects are "non-rhotic" which means that final r's, especially after an "uh" like sound, are not pronounced 18:06:28 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:45 as a consequence, it's not uncommon for some of those dialects to over-analyze words ending in "uh" as actually being words that end in r, which has been deleted because of that deletion rule 18:06:45 i don't quite know what i am describing... another way to say it is that, it is not until one has learned to drive that one can appreciate the skills of a master of driving 18:07:26 ion: but, when this final r is between words, it can emerge because it's not strictly final, at least not over the whole utterance 18:07:33 uh.. it is not until one has learned to make and place a brick, that one realizes he cannot build the tower of babel 18:07:35 sort of like liaison in french 18:09:21 like everyone who has done their 10,000 hours in some field probably has a good instinctive intuitive feel of what is truely challenging and what is not 18:10:36 -!- calamari has joined. 18:10:44 -!- calamari has left. 18:12:46 ahh.. like for the author.. the joy of "i wrote a novel" versus the ideal of "i solved novel writing mathematically" 18:16:15 itidus22: actually I have two windows which are up and down windows. not leaft and right 18:17:31 i think this is my main confusion in lambda calculus.. looking for some magical summary of what LC can do beyond it's stated rules 18:18:45 like uh.. with arithmetic there are instances of numbers around me everyday 18:19:07 which gives me a fair idea of how big the numbers are i can expect to worry about day to day 18:19:21 itidus22: my setup if following: tty1:links, tty2:irssi, tty3:gnu screen, tty4:hammer and sicle, uptime, free, who and df 18:20:02 but with LC.. there is no exhibits 18:21:19 what it can do is all computations 18:21:58 so.. like.. you see.. should i think of computations as in the kind of apps i have on my pc? 18:22:30 kind of like.. uh.. astronomy we tend to focus on local solar system 18:25:58 i should let it go 18:30:49 kind of amazed this works: http://i.imgur.com/6QpIO.png 18:49:57 you know what i like best about them paddy chicks kmc 18:49:58 aewf 18:49:59 Phantom_Hoover: You have 19 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:51:23 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:53:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:54:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:55:12 jesus christ kmc 18:55:18 i'm finishing this movie 18:55:33 but it's another 20 minutes and i don't know if i can make it 18:56:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 18:58:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:58:35 Hello! 19:00:21 hi 19:00:21 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:00:31 I've just been to THE THEATRE 19:00:36 *not quite the theatre 19:01:11 *actually AS level drama exam 19:01:11 according to the dictionary to compile: "to translate (a computer program) from a high-level language into another language, usually machine language, using a compiler. " 19:01:14 uh 19:01:17 @tell elliott because it's "genetic BSD", as in based on the codebase, and that codebase has already been cleared by a court case settlement with the original authors of UNIX 19:01:18 Consider it noted. 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:06:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:07:34 I saw Clockwork Orange, Trojan Women, and Abagail's Party 19:08:56 ok 19:08:57 kmc 19:09:03 i have finished the movie 19:09:11 there was no redeeming value in it for me 19:10:25 i think perhaps it would be a shocker and eye opener for a typical ivy league student who has been sheltered all its life 19:11:04 this way i see how it could be of value to someone else 19:11:09 but like 19:11:50 it was a fairly pointless use of time and emotional wear for me 19:13:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:13:28 ais523: what is "genetic BSD"? 19:14:13 nortti: "genetic UNIX" refers to something that's UNIX-like because it's actually based on the codebase of the original UNIX, indirectly, rather than attempting to copy it like Linux 19:14:27 original-UNIX has been continually deformed into OS X 19:17:22 ais523: for example is v7/x86 "genetic UNIX"? 19:17:41 nortti: anything that contains code from original UNIX 19:17:55 pretty much all Unix-likes are apart from Linux 19:18:32 Well, there is Minix. 19:18:35 ais523: even BSDs even thought they don't contain original unix surce? 19:18:51 nortti: what makes you think they don't contain original unix source? 19:18:58 BSD wasn't rewritten from scratch, it was a fork 19:20:03 ais523: because they couldn't have released it under BSD license if it still had original unix source code (see 4.2BSD Net/2) 19:20:23 nortti: there was a court settlement 19:20:39 which confirmed that the licensing was OK 19:21:59 Novell bought the rights, and then settled. 19:22:19 ais523: so it confirmed they didn't have code that was property of USL. There were five files that couldn't be released under BSD license but those were written from scratch on other BSD forks 19:22:34 hmm, we seem to have different memories of UNIX history 19:22:36 The settlement leaked in 2004: basically, BSD was in the clear if they rewrote a small handful of bits that they didn't already rewrite. 19:22:58 nortti: The other bits simply *happened* to have already been rewritten from the fork. 19:23:19 pikhq: that was called 4.4BSD-lite 19:23:35 Yes. Yes it was. 19:23:47 pikhq: Net/2 lacked those five files that were needed 19:24:39 pikhq: those were written from scratch on 386BSD project 19:25:21 ... Yes... 19:25:46 BSD is a fork of UNIX but open source versions no longer contain original UNIX source 19:26:08 And Linux no longer contains original v0.1 Linux source; your point? :) 19:26:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:27:01 pikhq: my point is that BSD contains no original UNIX source code which ais523 said it contained 19:27:13 nortti: it contained it at the time it implemented the API, though 19:27:19 and it still contains the same API 19:27:20 Still genetic UNIX. 19:28:28 I didn't say it wasn't genetic unix, I just said it no longer contain original unix source 19:28:30 this sounds like a philosophical debate 19:28:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:28:44 quintopia: why 19:28:48 Hello! 19:28:54 "if you replace every plank on a ship one-by-one as they rot, then by the time you have replaced them all, is it the same ship?: 19:29:27 quintopia: I'd say no 19:29:47 I'd say yes 19:29:48 nortti: Congrats, you are not the same person as the one called "nortti" two years ago. 19:30:04 nortti: i'd dissolve the question. identity is a silly man-made thing. 19:30:10 quintopia++ 19:30:32 pikhq: you are right. I am not 19:30:45 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:31:15 Ballsy. 19:32:05 i agree with nortti. we are not the same people we were then. however, i think that is true regardless of the philosophical question 19:32:20 I know those philosophical things 19:33:55 fortunately, i believe, if anything, i have a higher informational content than i did two years ago. the things i've forgotten left compressed remnants of themselves that interact in strange ways with the things i remember 19:34:10 that and i probably weigh a bit more >.> 19:38:15 shachaf: shachaf 19:38:45 -!- olsner has joined. 19:40:45 If all the iron atoms in some car are instantly switched with the equal amount of iron from something else, is it the same car? 19:40:57 no 19:41:06 I'm going with yes 19:41:09 yes 19:41:22 I say the answer is no. 19:41:43 arbitrary 19:41:45 (assuming they are also all in the same place, because you said switched) 19:41:59 And that modern physics seems to provide evidence for my opinion. 19:42:11 zzo38: physics says your question is meaningless 19:42:16 ^ 19:42:23 i like the theory that there's only one electron in the universe, it's bouncing back and forth between the beginning and end of time, and when it's going backwards it's a positron 19:42:36 feynman is one crazy guy eh? 19:43:07 quintopia: Newtonian physics may, but with such new thing as quantum entanglement and wavefunctions and uncertainty and all that stuff, we cannot say it is definitely the same thing. 19:43:09 but he really gets the point across that electrons are not only indistinguishable by anything except position/momentum 19:43:10 quintopia, feynman is every crazy guy. He's going back and forth in the universe, and when he's going backwards he's a vicar 19:43:29 but not really worth distinguishing in many cases 19:43:52 zzo38: quantum physics says your question is meaningless 19:44:09 ^ 19:44:20 quantum physics says it doesn't make sense to talk about "switching particles with one another" 19:44:52 indeed, because you couldn't(you could never get their exact location) 19:45:52 quintopia: Exactly, it is what I mean by that the mathematics has no way to represent it is, therefore, their exact location doesn't have and if they are switched, you have to antisymmetry (or symmetry) to subtract the states to figure out the result which should be zero if in fact they are the same, but even in that case, uncertainty and entanglement is possible. 19:46:39 so you're saying that the car would fall apart? 19:47:09 but it might exist for a very short timespan 19:47:11 zzo38: do you understand what "entanglement" is? do you understand where exactly the uncertainty arises? 19:47:14 No! But I am also saying that you cannot consider space/time like this. It is all relative and space and time are together rather than separate, too. 19:47:43 quintopia: Yes I know how to write down the state vectors for an entangled state and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and those things to some degree. 19:48:04 Well, it might fall apart; everything is possible. 19:48:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:48:17 not everything 19:48:24 ftl communication is not 19:48:35 zzo38: with falling apart I mean falling apart in energy 19:48:44 That is not what I meant by what I have said 19:49:28 because if some atoms(or smaller particles) would be in an incorrect position, the whole thing would become unstable? 19:49:32 but I have to go 19:49:33 bye 19:49:34 AnotherTest: O, you mean in energy. Well, I have not calculated the amount of energy it has, and I only know the Newtonian energy anyways, which is different from this energy 19:50:02 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:50:17 AnotherTest: But, yes, tat would be the case; however, that is not what I meant; when I said I meant they would switch exact (as far as it is meaningful) position 19:50:30 how did we get to this from unix? 19:51:52 By way of philosophy. 19:57:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:01:35 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:17:12 -!- mrdragons has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:38:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:49:36 kmc 20:49:43 why did you subject me to that crappy movie 20:49:43 cheater 20:49:49 for spite 20:49:52 it was like watching days go by 20:51:16 no 20:51:16 what was that tv series? 20:51:16 life goes on 20:59:28 sing with me kmc 20:59:32 ob la di, ob la da 20:59:37 life goes oooh-oon 21:04:52 ♬♩♫♪ 21:07:33 -!- Kray has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:07:55 is the icon belonging to a window something that X tracks? or is it tracked at a different level (e.g. window manager or dbus)? 21:09:04 my guess is "no, yes" 21:09:10 :P 21:10:04 -!- Kray has joined. 21:11:41 if you run xprop and click a Firefox window you'll see a nice big firefox icon in your terminal 21:37:35 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:40:02 @tell augur Thanks for the explanation. :-) 21:40:02 Consider it noted. 21:40:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:45:52 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:46:35 Let's remove human from endangered species list; the population is too much 21:48:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:56:41 -!- nortti has joined. 22:02:20 kmc: keegan 22:02:46 shachaf: http://i.imgur.com/6QpIO.png 22:03:12 :-D 22:04:10 kmc: I used to more or less be able to read Arabic. :-( 22:06:04 Oh, that's Haskell. 22:06:16 I saw fancy characters and immediately assumed it was Agda. 22:07:36 haha 22:07:40 :-D 22:07:58 i think the bidi algorithm is particularly bad for source code 22:08:02 like that "n = n" is a LTR span 22:08:20 if those were two different variable names, the argument would be the one further from the function name 22:09:07 Please don't write code in RTL languages. :-( 22:09:11 There probably should be just short RTL spans for single words. 22:09:23 kmc: What were you doing in Boston? 22:09:23 and longer ones for strings and comments, i suppose 22:09:50 I don't actually have a good intuitive model of the standard bidi algorithm. 22:09:50 I guess you'd want a syntactically aware text editor for handling RTL code. 22:09:58 Except that using non-English languages in code is evil, so there should be electric shocks for doing that. 22:10:11 I've had cases where I had a URL with LTR and RTL characters and I just *couldn't* put my cursor where I wanted. 22:10:14 No matter what I tried. 22:10:22 The bidi algorithm spans a single syntactic entity. e.g. a name, a single string, or a single comment. 22:10:29 The least painful solution ended up being deleting a large chunk of it and typing it from scratch. 22:10:51 One way is to require all program codes to be ASCII. It is also possible to write all URLs in ASCII, too. 22:11:35 zzo38: Most code is written in straight ASCII, so hey. 22:11:36 zzo38: Another way is to kill anyone who speaks non-English languages. 22:11:45 LETS REQUIRE ALL PROGRAM CODES TO CONSIST OF CAPITAL LETTERS NUMBERS AND SPACES 22:12:00 zzo38: kmc's opinion of you is going to be about the same with either of those ways! 22:12:48 Well, text strings and comments would still be permitted to contain non-ASCII texts 22:14:16 kmc: Wait, you live in Boston. 22:14:29 * shachaf forgot about that. 22:16:12 -!- monqy has joined. 22:25:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:26:12 `pastefortunes 22:26:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1507 22:34:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:47:54 `quote 22:47:56 `quote 22:47:57 `quote 22:47:58 `quote 22:47:59 `quote 22:48:05 753) fizzie: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord 22:48:08 853) imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. that's what it's like for people who hit you 22:48:11 600) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:48:24 775) [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. 22:48:25 321) haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!" "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards" 22:58:03 nortti: You should delete 600. 22:59:15 `delquote 600 22:59:17 ​*poof* elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:59:33 thortti 23:02:59 Can you play E Card? 23:06:27 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 23:07:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:08:55 no 23:13:21 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:24:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:14 zzo38: How do I find out whether I can play E Card? 23:26:45 shachaf: I can tell you how it is played. 23:28:36 The game is played by two players, the owner and challenger. 23:30:11 There are three kind of cards: Emperor, Citizen, and Slave. Emperor beats Citizen, Citizen beats Slave, and Slave beats Emperor. (If you prefer, you can use Pokemon cards: leaf energy card beats water energy card, water energy card beats fire energy card, and fire energy card beats leaf energy card.) 23:31:58 At first, owner has four Citizen and one Slave, and challenger has four Citizen and one Emperor. Three rounds are played this way, and then it is switch so that challenger has Slave instead, again for three rounds. And then this is repeated three time both ways for a total of twelve rounds. 23:33:08 The player with the Emperor card plays a card face-down, and then the player with Slave plays a card face-down. If both are Citizens, then they are discarded and the player holding the Slave card plays first this time. It alternates until one player wins or loses. 23:34:42 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:34:59 It is not permitted to just select a card at random; you are required to decide which card to play (I am unsure how they can enforce this rule). In addition, both players have a five minute time limit to select a card. 23:36:01 Before the game starts, a drill is screwed onto one of the challenger's ears, 3 cm from the eardrum. 23:39:01 Before each round, the challenger makes a bet in millimetres. After the cards are played, if the challenger loses then the drill is moved that distance (the eardrum is destroyed if the distance between it and the drill is reduced to zero). If the challenger wins while playing the Emperor's side, he wins 100000 yen per mm bet. If the challenger wins with the Slave's side, he wins 500000 yen per mm bet. 23:39:40 At the end, the drill is removed and he gets to keep the money, regardless of whether or not his ear has been destroyed. 23:40:00 These are the rules. OK????? 23:40:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:50 ion: np 23:52:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:57:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 2012-05-12: 00:00:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:03:22 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:22:38 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 00:23:09 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:23:41 -!- wareya has joined. 00:34:29 Wow, Portal 2 single player. 00:34:31 So. Amazing. 00:34:52 (Multi-player is pretty great too, but everybody fawned over multi-player, and I didn't see too many people praising the single-player game) 00:59:55 -!- itidus20 has joined. 00:59:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:22 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:10:32 i only ever played multi 01:10:35 :/ 01:19:00 Do you understand E Card now? 01:21:45 Gregor, did you play Portal? 01:22:31 Naturally. 01:22:47 Portal was brilliant, but somewhat lacking in plot (which was fine, since the gameplay was fantastic). 01:23:08 Portal 2 not only improved the gameplay, but had a plot that was spectacular, detailed, and very involving. 01:23:32 And that's to say nothing of coöp mode, which I'm still playing with a friend. 01:23:43 Gregor, does co-op work across PC/XBox? 01:23:55 iirc it does but want to double-check quickly 01:23:58 Donno, my friend and I both have it on Steam (PC) 01:27:53 Gregor: did you enjoy the part where he kills you? 01:28:50 coppro: OMG DON'T SPOIL IT FOR THE REST 01:29:51 -!- coppro has set topic: spoilers | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 01:30:23 quintopia: Yeah, you should definitely play the single-player game. 01:30:38 i NEVER HAVE THE TIME 01:30:38 quintopia: Even if /just/ for the plot, although the puzzles are (naturally) great too. 01:31:01 That was either unnecessarily angry or mis-caplocked X-D 01:31:35 no 01:31:37 it eas 01:31:42 ENTIRELY NECESSARILY ANGRY 01:31:56 * Gregor nods sagely. 01:31:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 01:32:00 win 24 01:32:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:32:35 lose 24.5 01:32:43 tie 24.25 01:36:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:48:56 -!- iconmaster has joined. 01:51:43 pathfinder _ g h | g == h = return h; pathfinder s g h = WriterT ((\x -> (x, [x])) <$> (s !! h)) >>= pathfinder s g; 01:58:39 "Cephalic ganglion": best name for the brain? 01:59:19 obv 02:01:10 I am trying to invent WizardCard and I wrote some of the codes already 02:09:24 -!- iconmaster_ has joined. 02:12:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:12:34 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:12:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:15:59 -!- iconmaster_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:18:26 -!- iconmaster has joined. 02:19:45 -!- cswords_ has joined. 02:22:42 -!- cswords has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:54:07 <3 Continuity 02:54:11 http://continuitygame.com/playcontinuity.html 02:59:52 pikhq, can the brain even be classified as a ganglion? 03:00:47 kmc 03:00:56 Which rules of Magic: the Gathering cards do you dislike? 03:04:14 zzo38: I dislike the rule where it has magic. 03:04:23 Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic! 03:04:27 Shun everything, and then shun shunning! 03:04:29 shachaf: As far as I know it has no such rule. 03:04:36 Oh. 03:04:40 Which rules does it have, then? 03:04:52 Is there a rules where it has gathering? E.g. of the card 03:04:53 s 03:08:45 -!- tilsoun has joined. 03:12:02 It look good to me and I hope I did it correctly: expandPat t = option t (get >>= lift . map (first $ checkPatternMatch [t]) . getBlocks (transEnum KW_macro) >>== \(x, y) -> head . M.foldrWithKey substitute [y] <$> x); 03:12:49 What's a minimal language that operates on a tape (i.e., jumping to an arbitrary address is assumed to be expensive)? 03:13:27 tilsoun: Do you mean the program or the data? 03:13:33 Both. 03:14:35 I don't know of one that has both. Perhaps invent one on esolang wiki, or put it in the list of ideas. 03:19:21 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:26:58 -!- iconmaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:30:14 Sgeo: A+++++++ would play another 1000 levels 03:47:34 I am trying to think of how to represent some things in WizardCard and other thing about implementation too 03:49:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:06 -!- augur has joined. 04:07:50 -!- tilsoun has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:12:16 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:16:48 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 04:16:48 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 04:16:48 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 04:19:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:28:09 -!- aloril has joined. 04:29:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:01 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:02:25 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:18:08 -!- augur has joined. 05:28:17 almost done with continuity 05:45:32 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:57:58 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:58:47 -!- aloril has joined. 06:39:06 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:54:43 -!- aloril has joined. 07:22:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:22:24 Hello 07:25:56 -!- cswords_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:30:13 Haneb 07:31:01 BLASPHEMY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSNAkNdvmg 07:39:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:55:29 Hello, Phantom_Hoover 07:55:42 Oh no, it's Taneb! 07:55:42 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 07:56:30 I had a dream last night 07:56:36 where i left my laptop in the bath 07:59:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 08:01:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:16:15 Phantom__Hoover, have you heard the blasphemy? 08:16:25 Oh no what 08:17:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dSNAkNdvmg 08:18:05 ^^^ that blashphemy 08:18:35 Sho blashphemic it turnsh me into Shean Connery 08:18:44 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:18:56 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:24:43 `pastelogs dream 08:25:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17369 08:27:45 2007-06-23.txt:08:24:55: Heh, last night me and a friend decided to walk 40 km... started at midnight... by the end of the trip I was actually having short dreams while walking :DD 08:31:53 Can I presume that elliott was not pleased. 08:31:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:33:20 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:39:11 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:45:51 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:47:27 The China Export symbol looks similar completely by accident, i’m sure. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/CE_marks.jpg 08:47:30 Phantom__Hoover: That seems to be a safe assumption in any and all circumstances. 08:53:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:54:09 Hello 08:56:04 o hai 08:58:33 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:01:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:09:53 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:09:58 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:27:00 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:34:16 -!- nortti has joined. 09:37:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 09:37:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:49:24 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:50:08 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:00:21 Madoka-Kaname: Yes, the brain is in fact a ganglion. Just with a lot of natural selection applied to it. 10:07:18 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:10:25 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:11:03 -!- atran has joined. 10:19:13 -!- atran has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:22:33 -!- derdon has joined. 10:38:48 kmc: i am about this upset with your recent movie suggestion: this upset: http://inside-logger.com/img/upset_kid.jpg 10:50:08 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:51:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:52:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:55:00 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:58:15 -!- shubshub has joined. 11:01:25 -!- shubshub has quit (Client Quit). 11:01:55 http://qdb.us/28319 11:12:21 o.O 11:14:05 what? 11:17:21 Sgeo: have you finished continuity? 11:17:32 i'm on the last level, but haven't given it a real effort yet 11:20:56 cheater_, haven't gotten there yet 11:24:14 oh 11:24:33 i'm talking about the web version btw 11:24:38 are you playing the ipad version already? 11:24:43 the web version was fairly simple 11:28:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:33:29 aw shit. I lost all of my work on c2bf. 11:34:30 also my own pkgmgr seems to be missing from backups 11:58:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:59:13 Hello! 12:00:19 wow ok the last level is fairly tough 12:06:00 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:07:49 @tell kmc upset 12:07:49 Consider it noted. 12:25:48 does anyone know can I make my libc for c2bf available under wtfpl if I include it in c2bf which is under GPL? 12:26:59 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:30:40 Can anyone recommend a mind-map software? 12:31:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:31:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:47:08 nortti, double licence ? 12:47:30 GPL is more restrictive than WTFPL 12:49:12 sebbu: I am trying to make c2bf usable so I am adding libc but I'd like to keep it under WTFPL 12:54:33 C2BF is a C compiler. It does not impose a license on the code it compiles, just like any other C compiler. 12:54:39 GCC is under GPL, for example. 12:55:35 Gregor: I am including my libc in my fork of c2bf 12:56:03 So? My distro includes both GCC and glibc. 12:56:25 (Or eglibc, as it were) 12:57:37 Gregor: so I can make my c2bf fork contain both GPL and WTFPL licensed code? 12:59:35 A) Of course, B) yes, even if they actually linked together (although then the aggregate /binary/ would have to be released under GPL, which has implications on the source), C) since they DON'T link together, there isn't even an argument, the two licenses have absolutely no bearing on each other. You could have something GPL-incompatible and it would still make no difference. 13:29:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:31:02 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:32:33 -!- Nessler has joined. 13:33:42 -!- Nessler has left. 13:56:44 http://www.elisanet.fi/~g623951/c2bf-j-0.01.patch 14:05:51 -!- elliott has joined. 14:27:25 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:28:39 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:46:26 Deewiant: Ping 14:46:29 Pong 14:47:06 Deewiant: What case is the WINDOWS directory in recent Windowses. 14:47:08 This gives me a stupid idea 14:47:12 i.e. C:\windows, C:\Windows or C:\WINDOWS 14:47:15 Windows 14:47:20 Thanks. 14:47:24 Server table tennis 14:47:47 Configure servers to append a ping message to all pong messages to a particular server 14:48:26 First server to drop it, the other one gets a point 14:57:14 nortti: I would recommend you properly fork, and link your fork from the esolangs page. 14:57:56 Gregor: ok 15:01:56 Gregor: Be careful. 15:02:05 gcc specifically has an exception to GPL to avoid infecting code it compiles, IIRC. 15:05:54 because gcc has library code it links into the output binary? 15:05:54 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 15:06:05 @messages 15:06:05 cheater_ said 2h 58m 14s ago: upset 15:15:42 cheater_: :( 15:22:09 gcc specifically has an exception to GPL to avoid infecting code it compiles, IIRC. // yeah, that's for libgcc 15:22:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:22:48 it's not clear where the line is drawn though 15:23:09 Gregor: You could just relicense C2BF as not-GPL :P 15:23:41 -!- azaq23 has joined. 15:23:52 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:24:04 libgcc? 15:24:22 -!- azaq23 has joined. 15:24:29 oh. never mind 15:25:23 libgcc is a library gcc links into the binaries it produces 15:26:01 nortti: I hereby license all of my code in C2BF under ISC. Feel free to change the headers at your leisure. I think I used a published Yacc grammar for C in there somewhere, so be wary of its license if it's under any. 15:26:21 (ISC is this license: http://opensource.org/licenses/ISC ) 15:29:19 Gregor: Hmm, has nobody else contributed to C2BF? 15:29:21 pikhq, perhaps? 15:29:29 * elliott aims to make your life difficult. 15:29:35 Or, well, nortti's. 15:30:00 Gregor: isn't ISC basically WTFPL with warranty clause? 15:30:38 And more legally airtight wording... 15:30:48 Actually that's not true. 15:30:56 ISC requires reproduction of the license/copyright notice. 15:31:12 ISC is basically BSD2/MIT. 15:32:04 The Gedcom standard is so dense 15:32:25 Gregor: do you have commit history to c2bf? 15:33:52 See http://esolangs.org/wiki/C2BF. 15:35:36 elliott: what about it? 15:35:49 ...It has a link to the SVN repository right there... 15:36:19 elliott: and...? 15:36:30 nortti: ...SVN repositories give you the entire commit history? 15:45:10 E\/TREME E\/PLOSIONS 15:45:10 /\ /\ 15:45:16 Explosions. Bexplosions. 15:45:21 Texplosions. Sexplosions. Wait. 15:49:41 Gregor: do you have commit history to c2bf? // there are tools to get the commit history out of a svn repo. The name "svnsync" comes to mind. 15:50:13 svn :/ 15:50:22 Is a texplosion something like 15:50:25 \kaboom 15:50:26 Gregor: git-svn works well for that. 15:50:41 \explosion{bang} 15:50:57 Lumpio-: Yes. 15:53:50 shachaf: it seems GCC 4.4 is the culprit in my fstack-protector slowdown 15:53:58 redid the benchmarks with 4.6 and it's more what i expected 15:55:41 -!- Gregor has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: He dies in the end | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 15:57:00 I, too, die in the end. 15:57:19 It's what makes the story so relatable. 15:59:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:01:04 What is THE ALAN DIPERT doing on /r/programming? 16:02:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:04:07 Hello! 16:04:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:05:37 hello 16:11:17 elliott, is it dwarf fortress time? 16:11:26 I don't know. Is it Dwarf Fortress time? 16:12:39 Is it a time such that, if I stream myself playing Dwarf Fortress, you will watch? 16:12:47 Sure. 16:14:13 kinky 16:15:05 kmc 16:15:08 have u seen my url? 16:15:13 :D 16:15:16 no 16:16:03 kmc: i am about this upset with your recent movie suggestion: this upset: http://inside-logger.com/img/upset_kid.jpg 16:16:58 i see 16:17:08 -!- rszeno has joined. 16:17:35 hello everybody 16:17:39 hi 16:17:54 Taneb: You realise you're not termcasting, right? 16:18:00 I'm not! 16:18:03 !? 16:18:20 kmc: hey, you should know 16:18:32 hi, elliot 16:18:44 kmc: when making a steak with "steak pepper" (a mixture of salt, pepper, paprika, mustard seeds, etc) 16:18:59 do i put this spice mix on the steak before putting it in the frying pan? 16:19:02 or after it's ready? 16:19:11 :( 16:19:58 How about now? 16:20:16 cheater_: i'd put it on before, and maybe rub it in a bit 16:20:28 but idk 16:21:41 that's what i did 16:21:48 we'll see in a couple of minutes if it worked 16:22:23 I... I may have got my ratry login wrong? 16:22:35 Taneb: Just pick a new username. 16:22:36 It's what I do. 16:22:48 Taneb: (This is why you store the ratry_login stuff in a file.) 16:23:45 elliott, got corrupted 16:23:53 What. 16:24:04 In the mess I had over the past two days 16:24:53 Okay. 16:28:30 kmc: i'm not upset anymore though 16:28:49 except this morning when i woke up dreaming someone electrocuted me and the flesh was falling off my legs 16:29:02 that's ok though 16:29:06 <3 16:29:30 elliott, now! 16:29:44 You should play Adventurer. 16:29:46 It's... "fun". 16:32:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:32:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:34:03 i think the words "seared clump, bloody cold inside" describe this steak quite well 16:34:07 i hope i can still save it 16:35:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:35:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:36:04 Any suggestions for fortress names? 16:37:40 sgc 16:38:11 -!- itidus22 has joined. 16:38:15 this thing came out quite good actually 16:38:52 Taneb: Fortressfortress. 16:38:54 Dwarffortres. 16:38:56 *ss 16:39:15 DwarfDwarfFortressFortressFactoryFactory 16:39:22 Fortress of Solidity (not really... this is like a nightmarish name) 16:40:03 frigidity, then? 16:40:10 no ~ity 16:41:20 Frigid Fortress 16:42:01 kmc is bull's eye hickory smoke bbq squce a known brand in the us? 16:42:08 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:42:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:42:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:42:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:43:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:45:12 cheater_: If I recall, Bull's Eye is one of those brands you can find in every grocery store. It's probably a subsidiary of Kraft or something. 16:46:09 yes http://www.kraftbrands.com/bullseyebbq/ 16:46:30 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus20. 16:53:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 16:53:54 Taneb: Oops, I forgot to raise the uxterm window. 16:54:00 I missed the last, like, half an hour. 16:54:17 Nothing interesting happened 16:58:38 i was thinking of fortress craft when i made my suggestions.. because, just because 16:59:05 i havent ever owned a ~craft though 16:59:56 Minecraft for PC and XBox 360 + Fortress Craft here 17:14:42 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:17:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:20:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:20:17 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 17:20:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:22:13 Not sure what happened there... 17:25:26 did df crash or something 17:28:06 I think I lost internet and df crashed 17:28:08 AT THE SAME TIME 17:29:02 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:29:08 monqy: crawl people are so wrong about hunger 17:29:21 what are they saying 17:29:39 "good thing monqys-crawl is right" 17:29:52 monqy: mostly defending hunger in any shape or form 17:30:10 while at the same time asking for nausea to be removed on the grounds that it's tedious and unimportant 17:30:19 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 17:30:40 ha-ha-ha 17:30:59 monqy: apparently you need hunger because it minorly inconveniences berserkers 17:31:19 (also for conjurers and summoners but "i don't know anything about them" so i can't comment) 17:32:16 spells hunger you; bigger spell level means more hunger, and having spc/int means less hunger 17:32:37 right 17:32:37 so at low skill/int the hunger serves to prevent you from spamming big spells 17:32:41 so you could just 17:32:45 not regen mp naturally instead 17:32:51 and use mp for that 17:32:52 right 17:32:57 Reduce permanent food 17:33:04 and for berserkers 17:33:06 make exhaustion last longer 17:33:16 or just 17:33:20 make it not wear off unless you $do_something 17:33:23 but 17:33:35 frankly the only times i've been unable to berserk because of hunger is when i get out of a tight situation and immediately into another 17:33:38 so 17:33:46 making exhaustion last longer would fulfil that fine 17:33:49 i'd go more for the latter since lasting longer means like pillar dancing it off or something 17:33:51 admittedly it's susceptible to just pressing 5 a lot 17:33:54 "nerf 5" 17:33:55 yes 17:34:00 In ADOM, spitting acid reduces your satiation level 17:34:06 make kills reduce your exhaustion 17:34:08 ideally in monqys-crawl you should never have to press 5 17:34:09 because $rationale 17:34:28 killing the rat invigourates you 17:35:06 "invigourates", good british english 17:35:32 Why should kills reduce your exhaustion? I don't see how that makes a lot of sense; resting should reduce your exhaustion (perhaps make the area danger and stuff, so that there is a penalty to resting, now you have to figure out what balance is best per circumstances) 17:36:08 -!- TodPunk has joined. 17:36:25 realism is less important than gameplay 17:36:55 monqy: you could also make exhaustion last longer and just make you lose hp over time "because" 17:37:04 hmmmmmmm 17:37:05 and then because hp on kills is great "the problem is solved" 17:37:50 consistency is also important though and monsters losing hp over time or only berking once is silly so i'd have to do something about that, like give the player a horrible disease to explain away the discrepency 17:37:57 "you need the deep deep down orb of zot to cure your self" 17:38:13 monqy: Hence why I have said so, make area danger and stuff a penalty to resting 17:38:19 "ur dyinge. but on your bucket list it says : - get the orb of zot because nobody ever got it." 17:38:31 "also, yuou're a sociopath and you like to see things diye it gives you reson to live" 17:38:36 "hav fun" 17:38:51 important question, will this perfect roguelike go the way of both of elliott's other perfect games 17:39:06 wee're talking about monqy's roguelike 17:39:08 or just 17:39:09 roguelikes in general 17:39:12 which of my roguelikes 17:39:13 or even crawl 17:39:16 monqy: all of them 17:39:18 :o 17:39:25 how many do you have 17:39:35 there's monqys-crawl and then there's "my roguelike" 17:40:11 more like 17:40:12 "roguelife" 17:41:01 and then there's the possibility i'll split "my roguelike" into numerous "my roguelikes" 17:41:11 monqy: what's bad about crawl light btw 17:42:14 mostly: it still has things that are bad from crawl, maybe lacks some of crawl's post-fork improvements (which?) 17:42:22 dunno 17:42:25 like resting and big levels 17:42:30 i hear it reversed a lot of nerfs perhaps unfairly 17:42:35 oh that too 17:42:41 you could try it and see how it goes 17:42:41 what about LOS do they plan squarelos 17:42:46 idk 17:43:22 but the nofood and noid and stuff like that give it a big goodness advantage over crawl also so 17:43:35 "im ask" 17:43:36 yeah i dunno i'd have to try it 17:43:49 #crawllight is scary "so few people" 17:43:53 im scared of big channels and small channels 17:44:02 i used to be in there but nothing ever happened so i left 17:44:33 while at the same time asking for nausea to be removed on the grounds that it's tedious and unimportant <--- the amusing thing is, they added nausea because sickness was tedious and unimportant… 17:44:35 i think the last scary channel membership is like 17:44:37 40 people 17:44:46 as long as they're not friends 17:44:53 30-40 people who don't know each other 17:45:06 I remember arguing against nausea, on the basis that it always either did nothing or killed you arbitrarily and unavoidably 17:45:14 ais523: you set #CrawlLight's topic; do they plan to squarelos, or are they about to kick me for trolling? :p 17:45:15 well, sickness is bad too 17:45:34 elliott: I mostly didn't set it; I just added a meme to it 17:45:36 bee castle! 17:45:51 hi 17:45:56 I don't think they'd consider a squarelos suggestion trolling, although I'm not sure if they're planning it or not 17:46:07 they'd take it seriously if you made it 17:46:42 18:43 what about LOS? :P 17:46:42 18:45 err 17:46:42 18:45 i'm not aware of the issue :P 17:46:43 18:45 circle vs. square 17:46:45 18:45 unchanged, and i don't know of plans 17:46:47 18:46 what is the issue with circular? 17:46:49 18:46 it's inconsistent with movement geometry (euclidean rather than chebyshev distance) 17:46:53 im "squarelos ambassador" 17:47:07 Circle vs. square? Pfft. I want a triangular LOS. 17:47:20 los in the shape of a giant spider 17:47:29 well squarelos is still inconsistent but it has gameplay benefits over circle los 17:47:54 18:47 hmm, well, I'm unsure 17:48:10 18:48 ask monqy if you want more/better arguments :p 17:48:12 monqy: enjoiye 17:48:15 :( 17:48:39 monqy: did you know centaurs used to be speed 20 "facts" 17:48:47 whoa 17:48:53 (in 1997) 17:49:36 monqy: are yoju being asked about squarelos as we speak 17:49:40 nop 17:49:47 what !! 17:49:54 join #CrawlLight immediately 17:49:57 im only saying it in 17:49:59 uppercases because 17:50:03 thats what quairlzr said it in 17:50:08 and now 17:50:12 what my irc client is convinced its called 17:52:37 "perfect disguise " 17:56:16 monqy: square lose "talk of the towne" 17:56:47 Do you know the game with the capture rule of go and the win condition of gomoku? 17:57:06 zzomoku 17:58:50 monqy: im exhaust my knowledge and stuffe "you take over" 17:59:31 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:01:06 thanks monqy 18:01:15 yw np 18:01:22 problem 1 def: tomorrow i will have car seat agoraphobia. solution: minimize that by sleeping well beforehand. problem 2 def: my sleeping pattern is way out. solution: three pronged strategy to induce sleep. 18:01:44 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 18:02:05 monqy: im was sarcasm!!! 18:02:24 the squarelos cause "dying because of monqy " 18:02:26 i know 18:02:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:02:58 if you want to get an answer ask dtsund 18:03:04 "dying" 18:03:05 "because" 18:03:07 "of" 18:03:08 "monqy" 18:03:35 wait for it ........ ... . 18:03:36 its ded 18:04:01 oops 18:04:31 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:05:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:07:51 phase 1: milk + hot water = triptophane 18:08:11 good phase 18:08:30 well i know its in the bible so its a sure thing 18:08:56 cool 18:09:10 something about milk putting someone to sleep 18:11:07 #2 equip jacket so flimsy a kobold could attack right through it 18:11:28 i don't like where this is going !! 18:11:32 and finally, #3 some asthma medicine 18:11:54 do you have asthma 18:12:36 a bit.. but its mild.. but the salbutamol is strangely relaxing even though it's a stimulant 18:12:53 "drugs" 18:13:55 no no you got me all wrong before 18:13:57 "drugs" 18:15:17 i just meant that jacket is thin compared to chainmail or platemail designed but still designed to insulate and increase my core body temp. not quite seal skin though 18:17:04 i just can't stand being in a car when i haven't had any sleep.. it's like cia torture 18:22:38 In a program like Astrolog, in addition to be able to plot additional data on the calendar, and supporting artificial objects such as ISS, another features of interest would be more features related to navigation. Still, again, all features should be able to work with each other. 18:24:17 maybe you can sleep in the car 18:24:27 I've done that, it's pretty fun 18:25:16 the fun part is not being bored because car or tired because tired 18:25:32 "a great experience" 18:27:21 kmc: what's hackin' 18:27:38 just got back from eating thai food 18:27:45 i'm in nyc for the weekend 18:27:49 why so 18:27:59 why nyc? just visiting friends 18:28:04 k 18:28:15 did you want to re-enact that movie you had me watch 18:28:21 no 18:28:40 no jumping fridges? 18:28:42 getting addicted to smack is not on my list of goals for this trip 18:28:54 double space before "trip" 18:28:55 or going ass-to-ass 18:28:56 sign of hesitation 18:28:58 indeed cheater_ 18:29:07 freudian slip 18:30:03 what about getting gangrene and having your arm cut off while your best buddy is left in a high security prison washing cotton 18:30:51 you have lived in nyc as a teenager right? 18:30:53 which was like half a year ago 18:33:51 no 18:34:05 have you ever lived in nyc? 18:34:08 i lived in NYC when i was 20 through 22 18:34:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:35:39 yeah i'll pass on the gangrene as well 18:37:27 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:44:23 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:46:28 oh ok 18:47:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:55:19 Twenteen through twenty-tween. 18:56:16 -!- rszeno has left. 18:56:35 wouldn't it be tenteen through twelveteen? 18:56:57 cheater_: did you at least like the music in the film 18:57:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:59:56 kmc: i knew of kronos quartet long before 19:00:06 i'm glad 19:00:31 so i'm glad i got burned? 19:00:47 think of all the things we learned? 19:00:59 glad you're still alive? 19:02:20 too many glados references 19:02:40 lol @ programming arduino with sound card: http://dangerousprototypes.com/wp-content/media/2011/09/audioino_programming_arduino_with_sound.jpg? 19:03:41 nice 19:03:52 so kmc are you anywhere near the twin towers of babylon 19:04:06 no? 19:04:26 ok so it needs a special bootloader 19:04:34 by this i mean the 9/11 convention center 19:04:36 i guess that's expected, and it's still kinda cool 19:04:38 yeah 19:04:50 it's pretty damn nice 19:05:01 but you could just as well use V-USB with a similar part count 19:05:25 what's the V? 19:05:32 in that sense http://www.pjrc.com/hub_isp/ is probably cooler 19:05:36 V-USB is a software USB stack for AVR 19:05:44 yeah but this one you can always program from your walkman 19:05:48 just have different data tapes 19:05:52 and a small patch cable 19:05:53 heh 19:05:56 lolz 19:06:00 or your phone 19:06:10 phone is not hipster enough 19:06:16 has to be a walkman 19:06:25 better option: portable cassette player 19:06:35 the hub thing requires a few more parts but no programmer 19:06:38 like one of those desktop ones 19:06:44 what hub thing? 19:06:58 oh 19:07:15 looking 19:09:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:11:03 wait 19:11:05 cheater_: no i'm not near the freedom hole 19:11:07 let me guess before i read on 19:11:10 i'm in east harlem right now 19:11:23 does he program the stuff by turning voltage on and off? 19:11:28 as in power supply voltage? 19:11:30 i used to live pretty close to the freedom hole 19:11:47 22 River Terrace, at the north end of Battery Park city 19:12:11 about a 5 min walk to the WTC site 19:12:37 in fact, on land created during the construction of the original WTC 19:13:08 i'll make sure to stalk you by calling up your landlord and requesting personal information 19:13:30 k 19:13:41 you moved in after it got torn down right? 19:13:49 or was that during 19:13:53 which 19:14:05 i lived in NYC from 2008 to 2010 19:14:25 right, the freedom fighter attack was in like what 19:14:28 2001? 19:14:31 yes 19:14:41 the building i lived in already existed at the time 19:14:56 so our air vents were probably full of asbestos 19:17:36 mmm, yum asbestos 19:17:50 so what's the green wire in usb? 19:18:00 i'm totally liking this article u linked me 2 19:18:04 USB uses differential signaling 19:18:23 there are two data lines; they switch off which one has the higher voltage 19:18:28 indicating 0 or 1 by it 19:18:53 is green part of the differential pair? 19:19:46 i believe the standard code is green and white for data, black for ground, red for +5V 19:20:01 i don't remember which voltage pair is 0 and which is 1 19:20:17 meanwhile in ##electrollnics: anyone know if 3d printers can print conductive material for leds, chip communication, etc? Prot: no. cheater_: so if you try to design electronics, you have to soldier and wire everything manually? 19:20:42 haha 19:20:43 kmc: ok gotcha 19:20:53 there has been some work with 3d printing electrical connections 19:20:54 kmc: i have no idea how he's getting pulses out the green line ??? 19:20:59 but home PCB fabrication is much easier 19:21:05 also pro PCB fab is pretty cheap 19:21:37 ya 19:21:38 cheater_: read the sidebar on the right side of the page 19:21:47 you just do everything in ChinaPCB 19:22:59 right 19:23:01 now i got it 19:24:42 it's super slow 19:25:01 ya 13 minutes 19:25:10 maybe he should instead make a Tempest based programmer 19:25:18 i think a parallel port programmer has a comparable part count and is much faster 19:25:21 but who has a parallel port these days 19:25:27 (i do) 19:25:34 i do too 19:25:38 here's a thought 19:25:45 make a SATA programmer 19:26:07 possibly a large parts count though 19:28:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:30:57 kmc: i'm thinking you could possibly take an 8 bit DAC and bitbang through an audio port though 19:31:24 or better yet 19:31:29 no dac, just a slope detector 19:31:37 and a high pass filter 19:32:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:32:49 maybe 19:32:55 or yet better: use left and right in differential mode. first start up by outputting nothing and charge a capacitor which will hold the DC voltage between the channels' respective zeros 19:32:56 you need two outputs and one input 19:32:59 Gregor: I only found three revisions of c2bf and all of them were made by you. 19:33:02 yeah 19:33:13 then you start outputting stuff in the signal 19:33:23 a comparator makes it either 0 or 1 19:33:34 nortti: Sounds about right. 19:33:43 then you deserialize 19:33:56 and you have your 4 bits or whatever 19:33:59 why can't you just use each channel as an independent output 19:34:08 with a capacitor to low pass filter 19:34:15 because i don't know 19:34:22 well 19:34:33 think about what would happen if you had a very long string of 0's 19:34:40 or very long string of 1's 19:34:56 oh you'd need a diode too 19:35:04 i guess you could mitigate the issue by having a three-pulse code like this 19:35:06 yeah cap + diode + resistor 19:35:07 01x 19:35:13 where x is the bit you want to send 19:35:16 and 01 always repeat 19:35:25 then you can effectively control an output voltage 19:35:50 to send a 1, you turn on an audio tone and charge the cap through the diode 19:35:53 wait why do you want an lpf there, you want a hpf there 19:36:01 to send a 0, you turn it off and let the cap discharge through the resistor 19:36:09 i think we're talking about different applications cheater_ 19:36:14 we probably are 19:36:17 haha 19:36:19 Gregor: has there been any other revisions of c2bf before revision 1 in trunk or have you put code written by enyone else repo? 19:36:19 i'm talking about an iterface from an unprogrammed AVR to a sound card 19:36:27 me too 19:36:29 so fancy codes and the like are out 19:36:41 the problem is how to spit data out of the card 19:36:48 whatever you put into the chip digitally has to conform to the AVR's programming state machine 19:36:50 it's not a fancy code 19:36:54 you just use a counter of 3 19:36:56 not some bootloader you write 19:37:21 every third bit goes to the avr programming state machine sadist 19:37:35 ok 19:37:40 you still need a counter circuit though 19:37:40 the other two bits get thrown away and are there just to make sure the signal is locally AC at every moment 19:37:48 that's a single chip 19:37:54 yeah but not a super common one 19:38:04 i think my scheme would work better 19:38:06 ya think 19:38:08 Gregor: has there been any other revisions of c2bf before revision 1 in trunk or have you put code written by enyone else repo? // no, no. I'm very careful about copyright headers, if there's code by anybody but me, it's marked as such. 19:38:10 but i don't know how to do input 19:38:13 what about a demultiplexer 19:38:17 because a microphone port won't detect DC levels 19:38:20 that's common isn't it 19:38:34 a demultiplexer can be used instead 19:38:41 cheater_: my scheme doesn't have any ICs or transistors in the output path 19:38:50 why do you need input 19:38:52 at all 19:39:23 wow 19:39:25 how about this one 19:39:26 i got it 19:39:30 one LDR 19:39:32 and one webcam 19:39:36 and one LED 19:39:43 you blink the LED to the webcam as input 19:39:50 you output a blinking square to the LDR 19:40:01 that's fucking minimal isn't it 19:40:06 heh 19:40:08 come on 19:40:21 you know it won't get any more ghetto than that 19:40:39 so why do you need input? 19:41:29 i'm not sure, but hub_isp has it 19:41:59 or 19:42:14 how about using the numlock, scroll lock and capslock LEDs 19:42:16 and 3 ldr's 19:42:47 that's probably even slower 19:42:54 and would take 5 hours to program a chip 19:43:05 What are you trying to make? 19:43:37 kmc: hey can't you use ethernet with some measurable amount of success in a ghetto circuit? 19:43:53 from what i remember ethernet really lends itself to ghetto interfaces 19:44:16 i think that's false 19:44:26 what about banging out packets full of 1's or 0's 19:44:40 and putting that through an LPF 19:44:42 and then using a comparator 19:44:54 or a diode 19:44:56 or something 19:45:10 and by packets i mean frames 19:45:54 can you force an ethernet port to come on and send out frames, even if there was no layer 2 negotiation? 19:46:04 But, what exactly is it that you are trying to make these things for? 19:46:13 scroll up zzo38 19:46:23 we're trying to make a minimal avr programmer 19:46:34 without the use of a parallel or serial port 19:48:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:50:36 Gregor: strip/bfstrip.c is written by Erik Bosman and it is under GPL2 19:51:28 The things I can think of are, audio port 19:51:58 You may need to do such things as adjust impedance and so on with resistors and other components 19:51:59 Gregor: otherwise all files carry copyright notice that it is yours or doesn't have copyright rule 19:53:51 kmc: http://www.slashdong.org/2011/10/15/pen15-board/ 19:53:53 bfstrip is a separate tool, so that shouldn't be a big deal. All the stuff that's mine is now ISC. 19:54:15 cheater_: haha 19:54:50 cute, but I'm not sure why a teledildonics board would be different from any other robotics board 19:56:12 except for having the safety isolation of a legit medical device 19:56:15 which this one clearly doesn't 19:56:29 kmc: penis on silk screen 19:56:29 I am not sure what other way there is best other than audio port; parallel port would probably work best but you say you cannot use that 19:56:49 zzo38: it's ok, the moment has passed 19:56:58 we're talking about teledildonics now apparently 19:59:59 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:00:26 or not 20:01:34 kmc: hey, i've been looking at my disk problem more. i think it may be that disk operations incur a noticable cost in cpu 20:01:39 any idea why that might be happening? 20:02:00 DMA being disabled, but you checked that already 20:02:10 does some kernel thread show up as using CPU in top 20:02:31 no 20:03:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:09:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:20:05 why do you think it's a cpu cost 20:22:32 -!- xander345 has joined. 20:22:45 hello 20:22:51 hi 20:23:15 `@ xander345 welcome 20:23:17 i own http://codecompiler.info 20:23:19 No output. 20:23:24 `? welcome xander345 20:23:26 welcome xander345? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:23:28 HackEgo: behave yourself 20:23:28 i've added an esolang section 20:23:29 what 20:23:30 oops 20:23:31 `welcome xander345 20:23:33 `welcome xander345 20:23:34 we get it right eventually 20:23:37 xander345: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:23:37 xander345: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:23:44 I got it right first time, HackEgo was just being naughty 20:23:47 `@ xander345 welcome 20:23:50 No output. 20:23:50 I think, at least 20:23:52 hmm 20:23:56 `cat /bin/@ 20:23:59 cat: /bin/@: No such file or directory 20:24:06 someone deleted it, that's what happened… 20:24:11 `help 20:24:14 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 20:24:29 nortti: Why did you delete quote 600? 20:24:43 is the owner of esolangs.org here? 20:24:43 `quote 600 20:24:46 600) You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure? Monads are like that, only worse. 20:24:47 ais523: why did you expect it's in /bin? 20:24:50 xander345: that's me 20:24:57 elliott: because I was asked to 20:24:57 unless you mean the domain; that's owned by Alan Dipert, but I control its DNS 20:24:59 elliott: because I thought it was in /bin 20:25:04 nortti: hmm, by who? 20:25:06 elliott: wow, you forgot the "the" 20:25:15 ais523: what did @ do? 20:25:16 ais523: I also forgot the capitals 20:25:19 I'm professional! 20:25:39 `which @ 20:25:42 ​/hackenv/bin/@ 20:25:59 nortti: aim a message at someone 20:26:03 `cat bin/@ 20:26:05 nortti: oh, ignore shachaf when he tells people to delete quotes 20:26:06 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; } 20:26:08 forgot it didn't start in / 20:26:14 `revert 384 20:26:16 elliott: ok 20:26:17 Done. 20:26:19 xander345: this place is usually less hectic than this 20:26:33 elliott: it /was/ less hectic than this until he/she joined 20:26:35 I'm guessing he from the username 20:26:37 xander345: anyway, I'm available for any esolangs.org related question and/or request 20:26:43 elliott: where did you get the number 384? 20:26:59 nortti: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/f21648f87766, the revision prior to the delquote 20:27:07 although `revert -2 would have worked too, I think 20:27:47 elliott: oh yes. I forgot hackego's PWD was repo 20:28:43 ┌────────────────────────────┐ 20:28:46 │ you can't ignore my techno │ 20:28:49 └────────────────────────────┘ 20:28:54 ┌────────────────────────────┐ 20:28:56 yes i can 20:28:57 │ you can't ignore my techno │ 20:29:00 └────────────────────────────┘ 20:29:02 uh 20:29:05 ais523: 20:29:36 elliott: ? 20:29:43 i forget 20:30:13 -!- xander345 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:30:49 xander345: i'm glad to have helped you as the owner of esolangs.org 20:30:58 Is there an op present? 20:32:03 Someone needs to say "yes" so I can go silent for the next five minutes as a hilarious joke. :( 20:32:11 it wouldn't be that funny 20:32:13 No. 20:32:16 and you know how to check the access list 20:32:18 if you see the police... warn a brother! 20:32:34 thanks zzo38 20:33:47 ┌──────────┐ 20:33:47 │ cheater_ │ 20:33:47 └──────────┘ 20:33:58 _______________________________ 20:33:58 < Esoteric languages fuck yeah! > 20:33:59 ------------------------------- 20:33:59 \ _ 20:33:59 \ (_) \ 20:34:02 ^__^ / \ 20:34:04 \ (oo)\_____/_\ \ 20:34:07 (__)\ ) / 20:34:09 ||----w (( 20:34:12 || ||>> 20:34:12 can we not do this 20:34:15 hmm, I think that broke 20:34:19 YA THINK 20:34:21 rip cow 20:34:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:34:42 your cow is so bad it killed PH 20:34:43 rip hover 20:36:12 is that an apt cow? 20:36:21 ah, no 20:36:26 it's a butfuckt cow 20:36:28 should I try again 20:36:31 no 20:36:34 $ aptitude moo 20:36:36 There are no Easter Eggs in this program. 20:36:53 -!- ddd has joined. 20:36:56 `welcome ddd 20:37:00 ddd: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:37:20 -!- ddd has quit (Client Quit). 20:37:23 meh, plain gdb is better 20:37:26 `unwelcome ddd 20:37:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unwelcome: not found 20:37:39 oh, ddd = xander345, btw 20:37:42 ais523: I suppose you know aptitude --verbose moo. 20:37:47 ais523: i suspected 20:37:48 fizzie: no, let me try that 20:37:56 ais523: i'm not sure what is "up with them" 20:37:56 haha 20:38:01 You can keep adding more -v's up to some point. 20:38:18 presumably ais523 has also tried apt-get moo 20:38:28 stops at -vvvvvv 20:38:39 elliott: indeed, that's what I was referencing, I wasn't sure if it was the same cow or not 20:38:58 that cow is from cowsay 20:39:26 incidentally, ddate seems to have disappeared from the repos altogether 20:39:36 it's no longer in coreutils, and it isn't anywhere else either 20:39:48 sucks! 20:39:55 ~$ sdate date 20:39:56 Sat Sep 6829 21:39:47 BST 1993 20:39:59 that one's still there, though 20:40:18 what's it? 20:40:23 although not in coreutils 20:40:32 There was the bugreport about removing ddate, where it was (IIRC) first closed as "no, we won't remove it", but then they flipflopped and did. 20:40:39 kmc: sdate's a library injection thing that causes date-related syscalls to return values in september 1993 20:40:47 why? 20:40:48 tazpkg doesn't have cow hidden but my own pkgmgr has if cowsay is installed 20:40:53 kmc: eternal september 20:40:55 kmc: because september 1993 never ended 20:41:01 i get it 20:41:18 stupid though 20:41:23 I suppose it would allow you to see what happens in case of strange values returned by date-related syscalls 20:41:37 how can you tell http://www.df7cb.de/projects/sdate/mutt.png stupid 20:41:38 zzo38: indeed, many programs act oddly or brokenly under sdate 20:41:49 (bonus: it does the same to outgoing Date headers) 20:42:14 obviously 20:42:59 someone made a library injection thing for Random Standard Time too 20:43:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:43:09 kmc: is that just random timezones? 20:43:19 i'm not sure if RST would fit in POSIX locale framework 20:43:20 no 20:43:30 it's the timezone used in Random Hall at MIT 20:43:32 Does sdate have an option to change the reference month, or to do other things to date syscalls? (Possibly, add these features to same program including the ones for Random Standard Time and so on) 20:43:41 which is really not a timezone but an alternate way of writing time 20:44:14 where hours 00 through 05 are spelled 24 through 29 20:44:26 so that the day rolls over at a time when fewer people are awake 20:44:27 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=149321 "tags 149321 + wontfix; ddate is staying, and as indicated, 180737 is already fixed." Then there's #650321 where util-linux made ddate optional and people were asking Debian folks to add the --enable-ddate to the package. Too bored to search for when it finally went away. 20:44:59 zzo38: it lets you change the reference month, but nothing else 20:45:23 fizzie: splitting it into a different package is an obvious thing to do 20:46:17 Possibly, though it's upstreamistically part of util-linux. Or at least was. 20:46:34 Quite a lot of people have objected to it, especially it being part of the base install. 20:46:43 Like #583503 "Subject: ddate: this useless joke program has no place in a base debian install" -- "I do not want this program on my machines and it has outstanding i18n/l10n bugs." 20:48:15 There was a bit in 2003 in Debian when util-linux 2.11z-3 "Drop ddate. Closes: #149321, #174459, #180737" and then seven hours later util-linux 2.11z-4 "Put ddate back in, just to keep the natives quiet". 20:48:45 But I see it's totally gone in latest util-linux versions even without an entry in the changelog. Perhaps the upstream dropped it. 20:50:39 Oh, I was looking at an old changelog. 20:52:05 In fact util-linux 2.20.1-2 in debian stable says "Re-enable ddate, disabled by default upstream in 2.20". But a search for the file name in Debian unstable doesn't find it, so I don't quite know what's up with it. 20:52:10 s/stab/unstab/ 20:52:14 Unstabbed debian. 20:53:11 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:53:25 it's much easier to stab than to unstab 20:59:57 kmc, i just can't ignore your techno 21:01:01 why do you think it's a cpu cost < because on youtube the videos are stuttering while they're caching. also, the caching is much slower while i'm doing playback. 21:03:33 kmc, have you finished the game continuity yet 21:03:37 it's really cool 21:03:45 cooler than porificetal 21:04:02 not cooler than portal2 though which i haven't pld yet 21:04:11 http://continuitygame.com/playcontinuity.html 21:04:13 Phantom_Hoover: im bring it 21:04:19 Phantom_Hoover: los euclidaen los is bad hi 21:05:12 Jesus christ monqy just tell me why using Euclidean LOS for lighting is Bad. 21:05:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:05:46 which aspects are euclidean here 21:07:34 Just the LOS. 21:07:54 that's unspecific 21:08:02 you can have euclidean circlelos and euclidean squarelos 21:08:13 the shape of the lines i assume he means, not how they're bounded 21:08:26 euclidean circlelos looks like an approximation of a circle on a euclidean display, euclidean squarelos looks like a square on a euclidean display 21:08:27 monqy: right 21:09:13 I have no idea what the hell you're going on about 21:09:13 for the shape of the lines: i'm sure i have my reasons for disliking it but the only ones i can recall at the moment are "wow it feels ugly and i just don't like it" and "it's harder for players to predict/measure when something will be in los from a certain position" 21:09:27 LOS can't look like either a square or circle, it's just a line. 21:09:34 oh 21:09:39 You're confusing it with the distance metric. 21:09:41 that's not how los works 21:09:43 nno 21:09:44 we're not 21:09:52 in crawl-likes 21:09:57 los is the region around you that you can see 21:10:07 (you still see a map around the rest if you've been there but it's dimmed and you don't get any updates to it) 21:10:24 in crawl it's a circle so if you stand in a featureless plane you'll see an illuminated circle-approximation around you 21:10:37 and can't see or target anything outside (and the same applies to monsters) 21:10:44 monqy, well fair point wrt prediction, but in this case it's the lighting engine: you don't really need to be able to predict lines of sight, just make them look natural. 21:10:57 and continuity finished 21:11:05 Phantom_Hoover: you do need to predict lines of sight for ducking around corners to avoid monsters, etc. 21:11:10 Phantom_Hoover: yes 21:11:11 you do 21:11:12 see above 21:11:13 it's what monsters see 21:11:19 Waitwaitwait, you were doing this for the /player's/ LOS? 21:11:20 los is a very game-relevant thing 21:11:25 Phantom_Hoover: player and monsters 21:11:27 OK your algorithm is even more batshit insane. 21:12:07 thanks 21:12:15 im not defending my algorithm but 21:12:23 im undefending a euclidean algorithm 21:12:46 Well it seems like the best option by far. 21:13:06 Obviously it can be unintuitive and it's a hack, but it's still closest to what you expect. 21:13:15 not 21:13:16 really 21:13:40 in crawl i just take it on faith that where i'm running will get me out of los of the spellcaster/ranged-attack enemy 21:13:45 "closest to what you expect"? 21:13:46 and i'm often wrong 21:14:21 maybe i'm weird but i wouldn't expect a game on a square grid to approximate euclidean stuff 21:15:20 Well what else would you expect? 21:16:28 something between "something based on the distance metric" and "no expectations because everyone runs to euclidean so it'd be unwise to expect people do things other than that" 21:17:28 The thing is that when you have a distance metric without even remotely unique shortest paths calculating lines of sight is inevitably arbitrary. 21:18:36 sure 21:19:37 And the Euclidean shortest path seems to be the most intuitive one. 21:21:06 doesn't seem like that to me but whatever. if you're basing this on your intuition i don't think there's anything i can do to stop you??? 21:23:21 that was a live replay of the infamous 2012 monqy–Phantom_Hoover "battle of the losses" 21:23:37 within a week the human race was extinct :( 21:24:34 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:58 ┌───────────────────────┐ 21:24:58 │ whoever wins, we lose │ 21:24:59 └───────────────────────┘ 21:25:21 stop doing that box thing 21:25:32 monqy, well I have to admit I've never played Crawl so I don't know the gameplay considerations beyond having seen a similar system in Dwarf Fortress. 21:27:04 sounds like you should play crawl!!!! 21:31:49 sorry i cant im windows user now 21:31:57 Phantom_Hoover: most people play online 21:32:00 (dont version its all lies) 21:32:04 if you have putty you can play the same as everyone else does!! 21:32:10 sorry windows user 21:33:58 Phantom_Hoover: putty is for windows !!! 21:34:22 um 21:34:28 windows 3 user?? 21:34:41 * ais523 suggests Big Idea to improve Unity on Unity mailing list 21:34:58 I have some small ideas too, but I want to get the big one done first to make the small ones more palatable 21:35:39 what's the idea 21:35:48 Phantom_Hoover: i think windows 3 had telnet 21:36:25 i doubt that it supported curses 21:36:37 uhhhh 21:36:40 do you know anything about telnet 21:37:02 monqy: ph is going to play crawl lets watch 21:37:22 cdo? 21:37:36 yaep 21:37:52 I know that it didn't work on Windows when I telnetted into that crawl server. 21:38:10 Holy ping, Batman! 21:38:47 crawl.akrasiac.org may be faster if you're in america!!! 21:39:28 Phantom_Hoover: also choose "trunk" 21:39:33 dont play stable versions theyre so unfashionable 21:39:41 i was going to say except for 4.1 but 21:39:43 that's an alpha! 21:40:26 Phantom_Hoover: we,re waitinge 21:40:40 I am enthusiastic enough about Unity to write patches for it /even though it's written in C++/! 21:40:57 ais523: what was the big idaees 21:41:11 elliott: allowing you to pin things more precisely than applications 21:41:27 I don't think they'd want to move away from an application-centric model 21:41:41 so I can pin a "compose email" window, or a "terminal running telnet to nethack.alt.org", or a particular folder in my filesystem (it's pretty shocking that you can't do that already, btw) 21:41:57 -!- nortti has joined. 21:41:58 and it's not moving away from an application-centric model; it's just blurring the boundaries of what an application is 21:42:04 do you consider gmail to be an application? 21:42:18 I'm not agreeing with their position 21:42:23 I'm arguing that both gmail and chromium should be considered applications, even though one runs within the other 21:42:25 but "application" is an artificial boundary anyway 21:42:33 ais523: chromium already supports saving as an application, anyway 21:42:35 yep, I'm just making the boundary configurable 21:42:45 my point is that the application-centric ideology is incoherent 21:42:47 elliott: indeed, but the OS doesn't know that 21:42:55 you can't attempt to disprove that by telling me it's arbitrary 21:43:02 I'm not trying to disprove you 21:43:04 Phantom_Hoover: im waitinge! 21:43:09 monqy: are you waitinge 21:43:12 yes 21:43:16 Phantom_Hoover: were waitinge 21:43:18 I'm trying to make it a little more coherent by letting the user specify where their mental boundaries are 21:43:42 ais523: I didn't say it wasn't an improvement 21:43:54 indeed 21:43:56 but since they hold an application-centric ideology, they will probably be quite tied to the current definition of application 21:43:58 are we disagreeing with each other or not? 21:44:05 so I suspect they'll not be fond of the change, at least to start with 21:44:10 I may be overly-cynical and proven wrong 21:44:26 elliott: well, the fun thing is, it's possible to do that already, but with a lot of manual work in config files, and it's buggy 21:44:48 (to be precise, you have to use your new manual files to start things rather than starting them from places other than the launcher, e.g. a terminal window) 21:44:50 ok playing crawll 21:45:15 "you can do this already let's make it not so stupidly user-unfriendly" is the sort of line I expect to work well on the Unity people 21:45:16 im watching 21:45:18 uhhh 21:45:24 monqy: recommend Phantom_Hoover a combo or somethinge 21:45:26 im watche 21:45:29 aaahhhhhhh 21:45:32 Phantom_Hoover: demonspawn is ok 21:45:32 elliott: you recommend 21:45:37 maybe berserker or abyssal knight 21:45:44 uhhh 21:45:45 what's up kmc 21:45:46 no 21:45:49 dont't do that 21:45:58 ph 21:45:59 no 21:46:08 ph 21:46:10 stop playing naie 21:46:22 not much 21:46:30 i wrote a program to put stuff in boxes 21:46:32 btw, it's kind-of fun when you accidentally introduce a segfault into your window manager 21:46:38 how to i throw 21:46:42 f 21:46:47 z to spelle 21:46:50 no Phantom_Hoover you have to actually playe now 21:46:59 I've had quite a bit of practice at recovering from that; alt-f1 is useful, so is having lots of windows open that can run arbitrary shell commands (Emacs, etc) 21:49:11 did you know you can start a window manager from a Linux (i.e. non-GUI) terminal and have it work on the X display? (actually, probably you did) 21:49:33 ais523: what wm are you using and how do you manage to segfault it? 21:49:47 nortti: compiz, and by patching Unity (which is implemented as a compiz plugin) 21:50:27 Phantom_Hoover: hi 21:50:32 Phantom_Hoover: try o 21:50:35 and 21:50:36 don't play naie 21:50:47 have you tried naie elliott 21:51:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:51:30 oh 21:52:36 ais523: did you know that you can start X without anything that starts when using startx by typing X (or Xorg or Xvesa or Xfvdev depending on your system) 21:52:49 nortti: yes, I did 21:52:55 found that out while developing weboflies 21:53:15 or Xvfb if you don't want it to contact your hardware at all 21:54:14 ais523: have you used Xvfb? 21:54:23 yes, well sort of 21:54:35 I haven't yet used it in an environment where it doesn't automatically segfault 21:54:49 due to mapping things too close to the growing end of the stack 21:54:56 need to fix that weboflies bug… 21:57:59 ais523: web oflies 21:58:00 kmc: what do you mean put stuff in boxes? 21:58:08 kmc: btw, http://jimblog.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/c++map2.png 22:02:50 nice 22:03:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:03:48 huh i didn't know about std::rope 22:05:54 elliott: well, someone on the mailing list seems to agree with me, but that's not very surprising, there are lost of people on the list 22:06:11 lots of lost people 22:09:20 there were a bunch of people trying to persuade the Unity devs to add click-to-minimize for applications with one window open, which would be massively confusing and inconsistent, so I can see why they said no 22:09:41 but in a diplomatic way, along the lines of "we want that to do something else in the next version, so there's no point in changing it now" 22:25:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:25:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:34:58 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:45:42 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 22:45:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:46:25 hi ph bye ph 22:50:15 kmc: well obviously i linked you to it, which means i know more about c++ than you! 22:50:23 kmc: i will now perform seppuku. 22:52:06 hmm, what's the easiest way to get a list of all functions in curses? nm? the man page (I think there's a list there)? 22:52:33 bash keys randomly and press enter every sixth letter or so 22:52:45 avoid too many vowels 22:53:00 err, a /correct/ list 22:53:08 you'd be surprised how effective that would be 22:53:45 kmc: did u know of the "select" keyword in bash 22:53:50 select f in aaa bbb ccc ddd ; do echo $f ; break ; done 22:54:00 anyway, here is my Grand Plan for Unity: https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg09410.html 22:54:40 ais523: it's Gmail, not GMail, by the way 22:54:55 I don't care :) 22:55:00 perhaps I'll get it right in the future 22:55:05 actually, it's Googlemail, in the UK 22:55:07 for trademark reasons 22:55:07 no, it's not 22:55:11 it's been Gmail everywhere for years 22:55:18 oh, did they manage to buy a license? 22:55:30 probably 22:55:31 or sued the company out of existence or something 22:55:37 or killed everyone who works there 22:55:41 it's Google, who knows? 22:55:59 hmm, I just realised how weird it is for an originally-Google Google product to not start with Google 22:56:03 "Gmail" is a strange word 22:56:54 ais523: btw, how could you pin a nethack server with a file? 22:57:01 write an .sh file? 22:57:11 elliott: you'd pin "telnet nethack.alt.org" 22:57:19 that's rather hopelessly vague 22:57:22 this is actually technically possible right now, but you have to write the .desktop file by hand 22:57:25 and no, that's a shell command 22:57:28 why not simply pin files directly, and open them in the relevant application? 22:57:38 so you'd pin an .sh for a terminal, or a folder for Nautilus 22:57:55 well, make it a URI, so you can do the browser thing too 22:58:01 elliott: because if you do "telnet nethack.alt.org" in a terminal /not/ via the .sh file, it wouldn't be detected as the thing you'd pinned 22:58:05 everything /already supports/ opening a URI in an appropriate application 22:58:14 and you could use telnet://nethack.alt.org/ 22:58:17 likewise, things like the compose email window in Evolution, I want to be able to pin that 22:58:28 ais523: err, that's going to require /way/ too much cooperation with applications to work 22:58:31 What's the point of "nethack servers" 22:58:32 and it can't reasonably be described with a URI, /and/ I want it to be detected if you click on "new mail" in Evolution 22:58:39 They got something that the usual distribution doesn't? 22:58:46 Lumpio-: you can't cheat, and people can watch 22:58:49 Lumpio-: people can watch you, it proves you aren't cheating, you can get other people's bones 22:58:54 more or less every serious nethack player plays on servers 22:58:56 oh ok 22:59:04 (except for really oldschool people, I guess) 22:59:04 Spectating is a good point 22:59:06 (and the DevTeam) 22:59:09 elliott: the "/way/ too much cooperation with applications" is the route I'm going through 22:59:25 I don't think it's that much of a problem, really 22:59:33 have you seen how much cooperation already exists? 22:59:34 nethack pr0gamers 22:59:37 ¬u¬ 22:59:38 ais523: seems like mine gives 80% of the benefits with 20% of the effort 22:59:54 ais523: and your original email describes my scheme 22:59:57 elliott: nah, pinning the compose mail window (so it doesn't group with my inbox) is actually the change that I most want 23:00:00 you don't say anything about shell lines or anything, just files 23:00:09 I use "file" in a general sense, perhaps that's misleading 23:00:18 a compose mail window is not a file 23:00:30 it is in this model 23:00:35 which implies it's badly named 23:00:44 ais523: how can Unity know how to open the compose mail window in Evolution, just because you tell it about the window? 23:01:03 elliott: because Evolution tells it how 23:01:04 it'd require a /lot/ more code in applications to handle this sort of stuff 23:01:23 ais523: for every single window Evolution can open? 23:01:32 if you think this is unreasonable, try, say, right-clicking on Chromium, or Nautilus, or Firefox in Unity 23:01:33 the translation to the codepath required to open them won't be trivial 23:01:39 I know about that 23:01:52 that's much less code than would be required for this 23:01:58 and I wouldn't bother doing it for, say, preferences dialogs 23:02:14 alternatively, I guess you could pin the inbox and then have all the other windows Evolution opens under Evolution rather than Inbox (Evolution) 23:21:30 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:26:15 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 23:32:50 elliott: Why? It was a bad quote. 23:34:42 elliott: anyway, the work will need to be done anyway so that you can pin files from having them open in applications, rather than just from Nautilus or whatever 23:35:03 /me: making things slightly more usable even if it takes five times the effort 23:52:43 bleh, why does tcgetpgrp only work on a terminal you're currently connected to? 23:53:30 I can understand wanting to compare users, but not to compare controlling terminals 23:53:42 why can't my program on terminal 1 check to see which program is currently running on terminal 2/ 23:57:14 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 2012-05-13: 00:15:03 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:18:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:18:21 -!- derdon has joined. 00:31:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbXfyH0rt3M 00:31:37 <3 00:49:32 -!- xander345 has joined. 00:49:52 hello 00:50:43 rehi 00:50:57 what does that mean? 00:51:03 hi again 00:51:11 oh i get it 00:51:48 i wanted to see if the owner of esolangs wanted to do a link exchagen with http://codecompiler.info 00:52:44 elliott: you're still here, right? 00:53:02 yep 00:53:10 xander345: can you specify what you mean by link exchange exactly? 00:54:00 well because i'm adding support for more and more esolangs on codecompiler we could link to each others site as both of our visitors care about esolangs 00:54:26 hmm, wouldn't linking the compiler from the pages of the languages it supports be more reasonable? 00:55:08 yeh that would be good 00:56:01 it only does about 5 right now but it's really easy to add more so we can have more links with each other 01:01:37 well, anybody can add relevant external links to pages on the wiki... 01:03:24 are they dofollow and would you like me to put a link esolangs.org on codecompiler.info ? 01:05:07 mediawiki nofollows links to avoid spamming 01:06:39 and the whole of esolangs.org runs on MediaWiki 01:08:11 xander345: how many visitors (or at least hits) does your site get a month, anyway? esolangs.org is relatively high-traffic (for a small site, at least) 01:10:51 it was getting about 500 a day when it worked but now that it's been on a sever for 2 months where it doesn't actually work the traffic has droped but i'm getting a vps for it in the next few days and it should get backup and i'm adding a register system where you get to complie more per day if you refer more people 01:11:39 500 visitors or hits? 01:13:53 visitors per day 01:14:13 if hits aren't visitors what are they? i always though they were the same as visitors 01:14:24 hits are individual page loads; visitors are usually counted by unique IPs 01:14:28 hits are a lot easier to count 01:14:58 I just checked; esolangs.org gets about 23000-26000 hits per day; it'll be trickier to get the number of visits, but I'll try and write an awk script to do it... 01:17:34 OK, we get about 1250-1380 visitors per day 01:18:45 thats pretty good 01:20:08 i'll put codecompiler links in all the languages it supports and add one in the navigation bar 01:20:17 which navigation bar? 01:21:24 the one where it says Home Esolangs Codepanel.net About Us Login / Register 01:21:35 kmc: Did you ever get that Stripe shirt? 01:21:50 ah 01:23:02 the wiki already has some links to your site, actually 01:23:11 I suspect there might be quite a lot of overlap between your visitors and our visitors, really 01:23:24 where are you getting the visitor count statistic from? 01:23:36 mine is from the nginx access logs with duplicate IPs removed 01:25:34 anyway, I think removing the nofollow (which I'm not entirely sure how to do, anyway, and which would require modifying LocalSettings.php) in return for visitors might count as an ad, which I cannot add to the site 01:27:52 xander345: hmm, codecompiler.info fails to compile the cell test in http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/tests.b 01:28:01 I'm not sure what the problem is; perhaps because I didn't select an OS? when I do that, the esolangs list disappears 01:29:07 yeh it's because i'm getting a new server in a few days so until then nothing will compiler 01:29:13 *compile 01:32:35 xander345: out of curiosity, what sandboxing are you using? 01:34:23 it doesn't need one because it doesn't actually run any of the programs, people have uploaded virus and scripts and it compiles them and nothing else happens, everybody was telling me they could take it down easily but they were ALL wrong 01:34:47 i do not let anybody understand how the site works 01:35:21 well, you support D; D supports running code at compile time 01:35:28 and security through obscurity is generally considered a bad idea 01:36:29 D doesn't work yet 01:36:42 ok, but when it does... :) 01:37:27 codecompiler controls how it is compiled all the users controls is what is in the file 01:37:48 right: D lets you run code at compile-time 01:37:50 with its template stuff 01:37:55 just by writing a code file 01:39:15 thats why i've not include D yet 01:39:31 i'm going to put this in: http://php.net/manual/en/runkit.sandbox.php before re-release 01:39:48 that just sandboxes PHP itself, not any process it runs 01:39:58 you'll probably want UMLBox or a virtual machine for the latter 01:40:07 (UMLBox is what our EgoBot and HackEgo bots, which allow execution of arbitrary code, work) 01:40:09 erm 01:40:11 (UMLBox is what our EgoBot and HackEgo bots, which allow execution of arbitrary code, use) 01:42:03 how do i use that from php? 01:42:47 it's a standalone program, so probably use whatever mechanism you currently use to call the compilers 01:42:48 https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox 01:46:50 -!- david_werecat has joined. 01:46:57 xander345: Anyway, if you'd like to get nofollow removed from links, bring it up on the community portal's talk page to see what the community thinks; I would be breaking trust of several people if I were to do it out of my own volition rather than the community's. 01:47:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal 01:47:46 i went to esolangs and saw that they were all dofollow links anyway 01:48:00 hmm, they're not 01:48:05 internal links are 01:48:08 external links aren't: 01:54:05 damn 01:56:50 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:46 -!- xander345 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:16:37 there's that solved 02:18:17 temporarily, at least 02:18:40 hmm, have I spoken in here about my love of people sequence-breaking live-action gameshows? it isn't really the right channel… 02:20:46 How could there be a better channel? 02:21:00 Although I wonder what game shows can be sequence-broken ... 02:21:10 (I accidentally sequence-broke Portal 2 and caused a bizarre plot hole in the process!) 02:22:13 Gregor: typically action ones where the puzzle is basically "get from A to B" or "starting at A get item X" and there's a bunch of obstacles that are meant to be combined creatively to solve the problem 02:22:47 the sequence breaks normally involve holding onto things you weren't intended to hold on (one I saw today involved hooks on the ceiling that you were meant to hang a walkway from, instead the contestant just held onto the hooks and swung across the ceilng) 02:23:10 or alternatively, gaining more height than expected (reaching things you weren't expected to reach by jumping, or by standing on the shoulders of a partner rather than sitting on them) 02:24:18 I'm surprised nobody's beaten one of the puzzles where you're meant to retrieve a code to unlock something by brute-forcing the code 02:24:30 it seems doable if you recover a few digits but not all of them 02:25:01 depending on the way the game is presented, it may not be doable 02:25:07 oh, of course 02:25:14 since it may be seen as a rules violation 02:25:16 it's pretty rare, and typically fixed in future runnings of the show 02:25:28 I like shows which don't penalise people for unintended solutions 02:25:50 although you're right, the show's producers could arbitrarily forbid things if they liked 02:26:08 (that's particularly obnoxious in the UK version of Gladiators (the US version is known as American Gladiators in the US)) 02:26:20 the question I would say comes down to whether failure to follow instructions is a violation 02:26:26 a whole load of people getting disqualified for not going about the events the exact way they were supposed to 02:26:39 like in Survivor, the challenges are described as "do X, then Y, then the first person to do Z wins" 02:26:47 well, in the cases I was talking about, there weren't explicit instructions, you were meant to figure it out 02:26:52 oh, that's bad 02:27:07 it could be interpreted as either "you must do X and Y and then Z" or "you must do Z. X and Y are the suggested and intented means." 02:27:24 you definitely should not have invisible rules 02:27:38 oh, in the cases where sequence-breaking was allowed 02:27:42 not the cases where it was forbidden 02:28:19 oh I see 02:28:21 nevermind 02:28:33 although my comment about Survivor's instructions stands. Are they rules or suggestions? 02:28:54 I don't know 02:29:05 watching closely tends to indicate they are rules, but they don't show that much on TV 02:29:08 I haven't really watched Survivor much, btw; it's not very popular in the UK so doesn't get shown much 02:29:28 it was shown more in Canada, but French subtitles really throw me off following English speech, for some reason 02:29:36 oh right, Ottawa 02:30:08 do the TV channels vary in language composition from province to province/city to city? 02:30:21 it seems unlikely that the TV in Ottawa is significantly different to the rest of Ontario 02:30:23 but perhaps it is 02:30:42 there weren't French subtitles on everything, just on some things (and some things were in French outright) 02:31:36 Yeah, it does. 02:32:02 French shows and even subtitles are quite rare elsewhere. 02:32:28 but the National Capital Region is definitely one of the most bilingual areas of the country 02:32:43 Montreal and most of New Brunswick being the others 02:32:49 it is really incredibly bilingual 02:33:02 having not visited them all, I can't say which is most 02:33:16 it's kind-of funny, really, given that pretty much everyone there knows both English /and/ French it's not quite clear how they generally choose to communicate 02:33:19 but certainly all the public service is bilingual, and Ottawa is largely public service 02:33:24 presumably the first person to speak picks a language and other people go with it 02:33:27 yeah 02:33:33 or else you alternate 02:33:44 I'm surprised that the languages haven't got mixed together there 02:33:53 people using French words in English sentences, etc 02:33:57 it's an interesting study in Parliament of the various approaches to speaking 02:34:06 or perhaps they have, just didn't to me because I only spoke in English 02:34:13 I don't think so as much 02:34:30 (and my British accent probably betrayed the fact that I don't actually know much French) 02:34:32 A lot of the bilingualism is for work, not cultural, reasons 02:34:44 I hate when it's 10:30 and I realize I didn't eat dinner X_X 02:34:56 There are some English loanwords in Québecois French, but not that many the other way 02:35:07 ("c'est ok" is a particularly egregious one) 02:35:08 Gregor: am or pm? presumably pm, if you're talking about now 02:35:13 coppro: ouch! 02:35:27 it's even pronounced "kay" rather than "kah" 02:35:39 also, I like the way you typed the é but not the ç 02:35:51 forgot about the cedilla there :) 02:36:16 do you have a ç key on your keyboard? 02:37:01 No, I use dead keys 02:37:04 ç 02:37:08 (meanwhile, I conclude that Canada is actually too large for my mind to comprehend) 02:37:16 Canada is /weird/ 02:37:19 (to be fair, even the UK is close to large enough for that) 02:37:49 (and it isn't very large) 02:39:20 Gregor: am or pm? presumably pm, if you're talking about now // yes, PM 02:41:01 Gregor: and by "dinner" you mean evening meal? 02:42:36 * ais523 wonders how large Ottawa is compared to, say, London 02:42:40 I imagine it's smaller, but am not sure 02:43:51 ais523: in Parliament, you get the Bloc, who always speak French to make a point, the Westerners, who can't speak French so always speak English, the MPs who aren't super-comfortable with their non-preferred language so they will only speak it in response to a question in that language, out of courtesy, and the MPs who are confident in both and switch often, even in the same speech. By convention, the Speaker is always the last kind, and ... 02:43:57 ... also by convention, the Deputy Speaker does not have the same native language as the Speaker, although the Deputy Speaker obeys the same conventions while speaking. 02:44:31 heh, that must be quite hard to follow 02:44:57 I looked at the parliament TV channel a bit in Canada; they were speaking in English at the time, but I couldn't really understand what they were saying anyway 02:45:11 I understood the individual points, but it was a very nomicky bit of recursive procedure 02:45:15 rather than actual lawmaking 02:45:15 In Ottawa, was it English, French, or floor audio? 02:45:23 yeah, it's gotten particularly bad lately 02:45:29 was what? 02:45:34 CPAC 02:45:44 oh, what I was watching was in English 02:45:47 ok 02:45:51 but I didn't watch enough of it to know if it'd be in French at some point 02:46:16 it's live translated 02:46:31 that makes sense, really 02:46:40 yeah 02:47:06 floor audio is what they call the feed with no translation 02:47:15 MPs have earpieces they can use to listen to the live translators 02:47:43 hmm, I imagine that most countries don't have multilingual governments 02:47:48 but Canada seems to deal with that quite well 02:47:54 Yeah. It's pretty amazing, really. 02:47:54 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:48:25 And they produce bilingual transcripts by the next day. 02:48:48 so, I guess the real question is why Quebec hasn't become independent yet; do they not want to leave, or does the rest of the country not want them to go? 02:49:07 apparently visiting parliamentary delegations are consistently impressed by the turnaround time much less the turnaround time in two languages 02:49:30 It came to referendum twice and came very very close to passing the second time 02:49:30 well, if it's being translated anyway, transcripts for two languages are only twice as hard as transcripts for one 02:49:41 as they can just transcript the translated audio 02:49:49 coppro: referendum across the whole country, or across just Quebec? 02:49:53 just Quebec 02:50:16 yeah, but they need to be made sure to be accurate, and the live translation might not be so accurate. 02:50:25 ah, right 02:50:35 it might be hard to actually translate it, sometimes 02:50:36 the second referendum in particular was panned for being particularly badly-worded 02:50:53 "This English sentence is hard to translate into French." 02:51:21 feelings across Canada tend to vary roughly linearly with distance from Québec 02:51:40 in the UK, there's actually a government body responsible for wording referendums 02:51:51 I didn't really like their wording on the single transferable vote issue 02:52:00 but at least it wasn't as bad as some of the ones they considered 02:52:12 and there was a PDF online explaining their reasoning (with focus groups backing it up!) 02:52:35 plenty of people feel that Québec is an important part of Canada and they'd rather keep it (msyelf included) 02:52:56 there is some sentiment that they're a bit of whiners and/or get special treatment and we'd be better off without them 02:53:10 but in my experience it is usually more of a "fine, let them go, see how well they do without the rest of us" 02:53:16 rather than a "yeah let's get rid of them" 02:53:23 not that the latter don't exist, they just aren't very common 02:54:22 There was a Supreme Court case trying to determine if Québec could secede unilaterally at some point, I think around the second referendum 02:54:41 The outcome was basically "they can't do so unilaterally, but if they voted to, then they couldn't just be ignored" 02:54:49 so both sides claimed it as a victory 02:54:54 were they /trying/ to secede unilaterally? or was it a just-in-case thing? 02:55:12 the proponents of the referendum sure would have like it to be unilateral 02:55:39 and I guess the answer is, that if they /did/ secede unilaterally, then they wouldn't consider the supreme court judgement binding on them anyway 02:56:05 since then, the Clarity Act was passed, which basically sets up a minimum standard of referendum for secession, and then commits the governments to working out how it would actually work should a vote succeed 02:56:42 reminds me a bit of the law in the UK, which says that a union can't go on strike unless its members vote for one 02:57:02 I think it's part of the measures taken to avoid a repeat of the infamous miner's strike several decades ago 02:57:10 (4) For the purpose of subsection (3), a clear expression of the will of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada could not result from 02:57:13 (a) a referendum question that merely focuses on a mandate to negotiate without soliciting a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada; or 02:57:15 the basic idea is to avoid coercing people into striking, while still letting them do so if they want to 02:57:17 (b) a referendum question that envisages other possibilities in addition to the secession of the province from Canada, such as economic or political arrangements with Canada, that obscure a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada. 02:57:23 right 03:00:33 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:03:09 clearly, if you want a referendum to pass, you just give the yes option and /two/ no options 03:03:13 so that the no options dilute each other 03:06:02 haha 03:06:27 they should make a voting reform referendum with a number of options, using AV :P 03:08:17 That isn't proper! The vote should just be yes/no, possibly with comments if they are needed? 03:08:32 ais523: Puerto Rico actually has that problem 03:09:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:09:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:10:01 ouch 03:10:14 meanwhile, apparently my IRC client juts segfaulted 03:10:15 *just 03:19:41 Puerto Rico has had referendums in the past where they are offered a) statehood b) status quo c) independence 03:19:59 oh dear 03:20:08 to favour the status quo? 03:20:19 My understanding is there are a fair number who would prefer a or c to b, but a and c invariably split that vote, and the indeciseveness means that the status quo gets chosen by default 03:20:40 I think they're planning a new one that first says "should we accept the status quo" and then if the answer is no, they will do another to decide between statehood and independence 03:21:12 which is unfair in another way, of course 03:21:26 indeed 03:21:28 approval vote would be a good solution for that sort of referendum, IMO 03:21:31 yeah 03:21:39 STV would work too but seems like overkill 03:22:06 that's just AV 03:22:15 AV is lim_{n\to 1} STV 03:22:23 where n is the number of outcomes selected 03:22:48 indeed 03:22:53 but even AV is overkill for something like that 03:23:32 approval would be good 03:30:49 What kind of dream did you have? 03:32:58 in the dream I had last night, Totem was a package manager… 03:33:09 I berated it for its technological inaccuracy when I woke up 03:36:45 ais523: btw, you're missing brilliant games of monqys-crawl 03:36:51 (not the same as monqy's crawl) 03:37:43 s/li/l/ 03:44:25 I have type Expander = StateT [Declaration] []; but now I think that might be wrong because, it may read only some declarations while expanding macros, and then the macros are capable to add new declarations, but we need to keep track of which declaration added on, which the compiler then may need to call the expander again to expand macros in new blocks, etc 03:47:23 I am somewhat confuse how to do 03:48:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:51:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:59:24 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:59:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:25:52 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:06:33 elliott: I just won agora 05:06:37 coppro: congrats 05:06:41 i'm trying to win monqys-crawl 05:06:43 it's /really difficult/ 05:06:48 ais523: you should telnet termcast.org, choose elliottmq 05:06:52 view a brief glimpse of monqys-crawl endgame 05:06:54 (it's nothing like crawl) 05:07:03 Who wants a MATHEMATICS PUZZLE?!? 05:08:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:10:59 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:16:23 Grah, PuTTY 05:25:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:26:22 -!- augur has joined. 06:41:37 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 06:41:37 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split). 06:41:37 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 06:47:47 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:57:05 -!- elliott has joined. 06:59:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:05:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:07:02 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:15:14 elliott: oh dear, I just noticed the domain name at the top of proggit right now 07:15:19 "alan.dipert.org" 07:15:23 is it THE ALAN DIPERT, I wonder? 07:15:25 i commented on that earlier 07:15:26 it is 07:19:45 also, I think I've seen that page before 07:24:20 Alan Dipert? 07:24:37 *THE ALAN DIPERT 07:46:11 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 07:46:11 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 07:46:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:51:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:09:07 wow 08:11:32 -!- augur has joined. 08:11:32 -!- SimonRC has joined. 08:11:32 -!- ion has joined. 08:12:15 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest19059. 08:23:05 @tell kmc i just can't choose: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=html&cat=personas&appver=&platform= ----------- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=php&cat=personas 08:23:05 Consider it noted. 08:35:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:35:41 Hello! 08:36:42 Hi Taneb 08:36:46 Did you see the update? 08:36:48 Yeah 09:01:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: brb). 09:09:41 -!- Guest19059 has changed nick to augur. 09:35:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:36:32 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:40:31 -!- nortti has joined. 09:43:09 so a thought just occured to me.. for a program which takes code with gotos, and reorganizes it into code without gotos 09:43:35 What do you mean 'without gotos'? 09:43:51 If you mean loop-based, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible. 09:44:24 You can always write the equivalent program without gotos 09:44:30 loops, conditionals, loop breaks, continues, anything but the gotos 09:44:32 However automating that transform might be a bit hard 09:44:40 itidus20: why 09:44:40 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 09:44:52 @messages 09:44:53 cheater_ said 1h 21m 46s ago: i just can't choose: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=html&cat=personas&appver=&platform= ----------- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/? 09:44:53 q=php&cat=personas 09:44:56 I doubt anybody uses gotos without a good reason anymore 09:45:18 Lumpio-, obviously you can assuming the two things you're translating between are both TC. 09:45:34 ahhh 09:45:43 kmc: help me choose 09:45:46 is BASIC TC? 09:45:59 when nelhage published http://livegrep.com some redditor was aghast to note that there are "over 50" gotos in the Linux kernel 09:46:05 Wait 09:46:08 there are like... many thousands 09:46:31 Just write an interpreter for the goto language in the structured one, then get it to interpret the goto code. 09:46:39 Lumpio-: Automating that transform might be a bit hard? 09:46:44 kmc: hahaha 09:46:44 That's, uh, what a compiler does. 09:46:50 There's no structured control at the machine levle. 09:46:52 *level. 09:46:58 elliott: i think you have it backwards 09:47:03 elliott, he means no structured control -> structured control 09:47:08 Oh, oops. 09:47:18 well i really meant some structued control -> all structured :D 09:47:23 Well, that's still trivial, all you need is a switch and a while loop. 09:47:24 Hey cool, alt-. makes a mid-dot 09:47:34 I AM GOING TO DO FULL STOPS LIKE THIS FROM NOW ON 09:47:38 kmc will now complain at me for saying "trivial". 09:47:41 … 09:47:49 elliott: it might be an acceptable use 09:47:56 hey elliott remember when you did all ellipses like that 09:48:01 œ 09:48:03 after all the reason i complain about "awesome" and "trivial" is not that I think these words should never be used 09:48:06 Phantom_Hoover: it looks like grey block for me 09:48:09 actually, he'd complain more if someone said "solved problem" 09:48:13 kmc: awesome 09:48:20 elliott :V 09:48:21 one good application for this would be so that people have no excuses to have code with gotos 09:48:24 nortti, even more reason to use it! 09:48:30 § 09:48:33 itidus20: some code is much nicer when written with goto 09:48:34 A switch is just cheating 09:48:38 In C at least 09:48:45 especially when you have only C control flow 09:48:47 itidus20, you realise the goto battle was won long ago, right? 09:48:47 A switch without fallovers or whatever. 09:48:53 ■■■■■■■■ 09:48:57 ∞ 09:49:05 ┌──────────┐ 09:49:06 │ ■■■■■■■■ │ 09:49:06 └──────────┘ 09:49:10 i will start making full stops like this ■ 09:49:16 there■ 09:49:16 Nobody uses goto as their primary control structure any more. 09:49:23 ÷πª•∞¢´∑ß≈ç√∫~∆˚øª•¶§∞åÎØÍÚÏÎ`˜ÂÁ¢ 09:49:44 because a full stop really needs to be a fully black character■ 09:49:53 elliott: I can type § without using any modifier keys kinda like ½ 09:49:57 ≈ƒµçk≈ 09:50:01 well it would be ridiculous to stop using goto altogether. 09:50:03 ☭ 09:50:03 åäöäåöäå 09:50:10 inb4 zalgo 09:50:13 i have therefore said nothing :D 09:50:17 ΉÅÊÓ ÍÓÈÊ 09:50:24 kmc, zalgo? 09:50:33 no zalgo 4 u 09:50:37 ow 09:50:40 that hurt■ 09:50:44 πøøπ 09:50:48 ®øø∂ 09:51:01 §üπé® 09:51:05 ˙鬬ø 09:51:06 hm my boxifying script probably does not handle combining characters 09:51:32 `MAN' 09:51:32 why do you have a boxifying script■ 09:51:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: MAN': not found 09:51:42 `´ 09:51:45 √ 09:51:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ´: not found 09:51:50 so i can put stuff in boxes 09:52:07 kmc, that makes sense■ 09:53:14 but it does handle 09:53:17 ┌────────────────────────────────┐ 09:53:20 │ ＦＵＬＬＷＩＤＴＨ ＬＡＴＩＮ │ 09:53:23 └────────────────────────────────┘ 09:53:48 But... does it handle fullwidth CJK? 09:53:52 yes 09:53:58 great 09:53:58 fwiw, it doesn't work in xchat anyways because variable width font■ 09:54:04 i get the character properties from ICU 09:54:12 cheater_: :( 09:54:18 it never did, kmc■ 09:54:19 Variable width fonts for IRC are just wrong 09:54:29 as hard as you might try■ 09:54:41 It could work 09:54:44 Lumpio-: that's only until you start using them and your eyes don't hurt anymore■ 09:54:49 Japanese people make "ASCII art" using variable width fonts 09:55:01 Lumpio-: yeah but the right wall won't line up at all■ 09:55:09 (Of course they assume everybody's running exactly the same version of Windows with the same font and rendering method) 09:55:27 (But then again over there everybody is still stuck with w2k or something) 09:55:39 this isn't exactly exactly ascii art■ 09:55:40 (And using operating systems besides Windows would dishonor your entire family) 09:55:45 it's more line drawing than anything■ 09:55:46 Yes, it's not ASCII art. They still call it that. 09:55:58 you misunderstood me■ 09:56:01 It's not even ASCII. 09:56:08 it's also not art■ 09:56:09 No, I didn't. 09:56:15 kmc's boxes are merely kitsch■ 09:56:18 I was talking about lining up stuff with variable width fonts 09:56:24 Also these days anything can be art 09:56:26 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:56:47 As long as somebody thinks it's art, it's art. 09:56:48 what about the art of computer programming■ 09:57:04 If other people have problems accepting that all they need to do is call it experimental or progressive art 09:57:07 go program some php, make art■ 09:57:29 what if it's not progressive or experimental at all■ 09:57:50 let's say someone paints a really beautiful landscape, rembrandt style■ 09:57:53 It is if somebody says so. 09:57:58 it's touching■ 09:58:02 Also wtf is with the ■ 09:58:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:58:11 but it's neither progressive nor experimental■ 09:58:19 it's just the new FULLER stop■ 09:58:27 ooh 09:58:29 it's a FULL CHARACTER■ 09:58:36 Fine 09:58:42 Then I shall use the CJK full stop。 09:58:49 feel free 09:58:53 i just got bored with my fuller stop 09:59:02 i won't be using it for the time being 09:59:31 Yay、 CJK fullーwidth full stop！ 10:00:07 ꙮ 10:00:47 Wut 10:01:44 品 10:01:49 «серафими многоꙮчитїи» 10:02:01 yep 10:02:20 💩 10:02:22 Ꙭ 10:02:44 what's the one you just pasted 10:02:46 i don't have it 10:02:47 Lumpio-: Lame. 森 10:02:56 cheater_: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm 10:03:12 right 10:03:22 that's probably a very good unicode coverage testing character 10:03:25 the only (?) unicode character with smell lines 10:03:33 actually they should have combining smell lines 10:03:42 轟 10:03:43 they should, shouldn't they 10:03:55 i am surprised they ignore this fact so blatantly 10:04:32 ⅯⅭⅯⅬⅩⅩⅩⅧ 10:04:51 Lumpio-: 𪚥 10:05:20 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Zh%C3%A9.svg 10:05:39 i'm using Mosh so i can't copy-paste characters wich aren't recognized by my locale :/ 10:06:09 龘's also fun. 10:06:11 they turn into U+FFFD 'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER' 10:06:19 smell lines? 10:06:20 o.O 10:07:18 -!- cheater__ has joined. 10:08:36 maybe han characters were invented by dragons 10:09:32 i was thinking the other day about how chopsticks kinda suck compared to forks, but asian soup spoons are way better than western ones 10:09:47 i want to make this into an entire bullshit pop-psych theory about east vs west 10:10:56 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:11:57 chopsticks are versatile though 10:14:11 i saw somewhere that some japanese guy adding thumb shaped stubs to forks to make them look more like hands 10:15:01 hey kmc what was that haskell shell lib that allowed you to use combinators to pipe stuff around? 10:15:07 don't remember 10:15:13 you know which one i mean though? 10:15:28 maybe 10:15:35 you're so cryptic 10:15:41 haha 10:16:39 does shqq have piping? 10:16:51 not in any special way 10:17:06 you can use the normal shell pipe within the quotation 10:17:12 [sh| foo | bar |] 10:30:59 -!- derdon has joined. 10:31:18 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 10:34:10 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:34:35 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3966632 10:34:50 i bet that'll at least double my karma 10:35:05 basically, any mention of hskell = karma 10:35:12 really? 10:35:16 i thought reddit and hackernews were over haskell 10:35:24 apparently not 10:35:44 i know /r/programming had a haskell phase but last i checked they had more of a haskell backlash 10:35:54 however these days I avoid that place like the pits of hell 10:35:55 yea i heard they had a haskell aversion 10:35:59 hn is pretty annoying too 10:35:59 but hn is all functional 10:36:03 it's written in lisp isn't it 10:36:08 that's the nature of the beast 10:36:09 eh paul graham is not a big haskell fan 10:36:16 paul graham is not a big * fan 10:36:25 it's written in Arc actually 10:36:32 which is PG's crackhead Lisp dialect 10:36:32 what's arc 10:36:35 right 10:36:40 it's pg's blub isn't it 10:36:43 yeah 10:36:44 i remember reading about it 10:37:01 also Lisp ≠ functional, if you read _On Lisp_ you'll see that PG doesn't particularly use a functional style 10:37:17 a lot of Lispers will get really annoyed if you call Lisp a functional language 10:37:31 don't take this too seriously 10:37:45 i was joking and you think i'm serious 10:38:04 i thought it was an obvious joke, i mean "lisp is functional" come on 10:38:21 ok now upvote that comment and the post it links to kmc 10:38:25 plz 10:38:34 anyway HN may be written in Arc but it's full of startup weenies who think ruby and node.js coffeescript are beautiful awesome ninja hacker software 10:38:45 at this point i'm really embarassed to be associated with "hacker" culture 10:38:49 i guess that makes me a bitter elitist 10:38:58 cheater__: i don't have a HN account 10:39:16 damn you 10:39:42 well, you know 10:39:43 kmc 10:39:46 cheater__ 10:39:51 98% of everything is shit 10:40:04 also, if you take the remaining 2% then 98% of that is shit 10:40:14 yes 10:40:16 fractal shit 10:40:19 it's shit all the way down 10:40:28 there you go 10:40:34 so i'm thinking, it applies to hackers too 10:40:38 On Lisp is a cool book though 10:40:40 that's what we have to work with 10:40:55 you can't just hide in your shell and wait for the (shit)storm to pass 10:40:58 it will never pass 10:41:00 it's just the way it is 10:41:21 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:41:28 you can ignore it's there, and avoid everything where you think there's that 98% of shit 10:41:30 but really 10:41:48 if you don't see the 98% in something then you just aren't good enough at that thing to appreciate good quality 10:42:08 example: you still haven't gotten put off on electronics 10:42:13 if you keep at it, you surely will 10:42:38 so i'm thinking, it's much better to display enough creativity to actually make something out of all that, you know, shit 10:42:45 since it's 98% of the natural resource. 10:42:52 i guess that's the smart way to go, make something out of nothing. 10:43:04 wow CNN has articles about brogrammers now 10:43:09 do they 10:43:10 url 10:43:14 -!- elliott has left. 10:43:23 http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/tech/web/brogrammers/index.html 10:43:26 cheater__: i'm not put off making stuff 10:43:31 just put off "hacker culture" 10:43:42 so instead of spending my time reading HN, i make stuff 10:44:01 you've just learnt that it's crap, that's all 10:44:08 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:44:18 but it's not really an earth shattering realization once you realize that 98% of everything is crap 10:44:45 i'm almost pleased about the fact that Mosh uses such un-sexy tools 10:44:53 C++ and Automake and fucking unix terminal subsystem 10:44:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:45:09 though it really should be in a memory-safe langauge 10:46:36 why should it 10:46:48 why didn't you make it in python and twisted and coffeescript 10:46:53 you suck 10:46:57 you're not a hacker 10:47:06 (:D) 10:47:10 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:48:08 yeah i know right 10:48:40 also it uses a network protocol that isn't HTTP based 10:48:49 actually, i'm wondering about python's increasing notoriety as a "systems language" 10:48:54 that pretty much marks us as dinosaurs right 10:49:07 it really does feel like it's replacing the C/C++/Cobol/Perl hydra 10:49:13 in 40 years all protocols below HTTP will be forgotton 10:49:21 they have already 10:49:24 I assume kmc is joking 10:49:25 "what's a port" 10:49:35 "what do you mean the port is not 80" 10:49:41 and we'll be reimplementing TCP and UDP poorly over HTTP 10:49:45 "how can you have a port that's not 80" 10:49:49 kmc, exactly 10:49:57 that's the fucking amazing part about hackers nowadays 10:50:11 reimplement shit on top of exactly the same shit fifty layers down 10:50:51 my friend was at a café and someone saw code on his screen and asked him what he does for a living 10:51:02 "i'm a kernel programmer, it's the very core of the operating system" 10:51:11 "oh, so, like not even the Drupal layer? even lower than that?" 10:51:16 -_- 10:51:52 this is really a sign of progress though 10:51:59 even if it's unpalatable to eleet ninja hackers 10:52:35 our abstractions are good enough that people can build worthwhile things without knowing every single irrelevant detail of the hardware and operating system 10:53:13 hahahahhaha 10:53:16 Drupal Layer 10:53:16 there is some fallacy that we could make all current programmers learn assembly language and CPU architecture 10:53:26 when really a lot of people would just give up on programming then 10:53:42 Drupal Layer is the new ISO OSI Layer 0 10:53:46 yeah 10:53:47 amirite 10:53:49 haha 10:56:45 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:58:20 http://scpd.stanford.edu/knuth/index.jsp 10:58:23 here you go kmc 10:58:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:01:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:02:20 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:02:53 cheater__: http://a841-tfpweb.nyc.gov/bikeshare/files/2012/05/Schaefer-Landing.jpg 11:02:56 don't you love this map 11:04:49 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:07:36 what is that 11:08:00 i think they might be using the wrong metric 11:08:42 yeah... 11:08:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:08:51 it's supposed to be how far you can bike from a given point in n minutes 11:08:55 but that point is on the waterline... 11:09:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:09:37 also you have to bike east to the edge of their "5 min" circle just to get on the bridge to go west 11:11:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 11:13:44 why does it matter 11:13:51 it's obviously a crude representation 11:14:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:14:07 why do you expect it to be autism-compatible 11:14:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:14:27 Hello 11:15:04 hi Taneb 11:15:24 hi Taneb 11:15:36 cheater__: the circle maps are always crude approximations but this one is beyond ridiculous 11:15:53 is it really 11:15:55 yes 11:16:02 what if the center of the circle were just a little bit further 11:16:05 it understates the time to bike to many points by at least a factor of 2 11:16:05 somewhere on land 11:16:15 factor of 2 is not that much 11:16:24 it's only one order of magnitude in binary 11:16:28 lol cheater__ 11:16:41 so anyone who cares about correctness within an order of magnitude is mentally ill 11:16:54 it's not like you'll expect to go for a 10 minute ride and end up commuting for a whole day 11:17:00 no kmc 11:17:05 it's just you 11:17:10 not anyone 11:17:11 :D 11:17:24 ;P 11:17:31 if they just had the east half of each circle that would be ok 11:18:25 but e.g. they imply you can get from Schaefer Landing to DUMBO in 10 minutes 11:18:43 by biking across the water and the navy yard 11:18:51 i am dismayed at the fact that no european universities do an OCW kind of thing 11:19:01 the intersection of that circle with the route you'd actually take is less than halfway 11:19:39 why are you obsessing over this 11:19:46 to annoy you cheater__ 11:19:52 have you been watching some sort of commuter-version of requiem for a dream 11:20:05 it doesn't annoy me 11:20:09 it just makes me wonder 11:20:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 11:20:43 better tell me if you know of any european unis that have online courses available 11:20:46 free ones 11:22:32 i don't know of any 11:22:59 -!- swilde has joined. 11:23:43 your language says a lot cheater__ 11:23:54 you assume i bring up this map because i am "obsessing" 11:24:02 when it is just a momentary diversion 11:24:05 that says more about u than about me 11:26:23 FOS: cheater__ ? 11:26:31 Sgeo: FOS? 11:26:38 Sorry, I'm a bit Mafia obsessed lately 11:26:46 Finger of Suspicion 11:26:58 I'm awful at mafia 11:27:02 wat 11:27:20 Taneb, you're officially better than the people in #wolfgame 11:27:29 cheater__, he thinks you are one of the people who kill a townsperson at night-time 11:28:07 I, as a townie, was once lynched at lylo for checking stats at daybreak 11:28:15 !!! 11:30:17 Taneb: oh 11:31:18 Taneb, pop-quiz: Should the town, during the day, if there's nothing in particular to talk about: 11:31:31 a) Talk, in an attempt to root out mafia, or 11:31:34 b) Not talk. 11:31:39 I'd go for a 11:31:50 And you're smarter than #wolfgame, good job 11:32:05 Of course, I suck at talking, and when I do talk, everyone thinks I'm mafioso 11:32:13 lol 11:34:30 man 11:34:40 the german universities really suck at online courses 11:34:51 there's the british Open University that does it 11:34:53 and ParisTech 11:35:04 then the next nearest thing to europe is in australia, or something. 11:35:20 you even get a japanese uni. 11:36:03 Japan's closer to Europe than Australia? 11:36:11 Unless you mean culturally? 11:36:20 Or linguistically, I guess 11:36:43 no i mean as in "the closest thing to europe other than europe or usa" 11:36:53 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 11:36:57 just trying to display how far behind europe is in that regard 11:37:26 Oh, close as in close in the rankings 11:37:54 no 11:37:56 geographically 11:39:06 hey have you seen this https://gist.github.com/701213 11:39:13 "lessons learned from #python" 11:40:02 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:41:15 -!- swilde has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 11:45:26 How does GPL apply to a file format? 11:48:29 gpl is a copyright based license 11:48:39 a format is not data, it is metadata 11:48:48 you can only copyright data, not metadata 11:49:16 but it also means that you can change the format and you're still under the same copyright 11:49:29 that's why mp3 files are copyrighted because people have copyright over the source cds 11:50:41 So, I'm free to write a program that saves to a format, the specifications of which are in the form of an XML DTD which explicitly mentions that it is licensed under GPL, and release my program under any license I like? 11:52:18 Actually, nevermind 11:58:47 cheater__: interesting 11:58:54 in my short time in #python i noticed these problems too 11:58:59 everyone has 11:59:05 those trolls are legendary 11:59:11 getting banned from #python = badge of honor 12:00:41 hey kmc, EvilTerran on Hackernews says "ShQQ looks very nice" 12:00:45 i thought it would be pertinent 12:00:49 ok 12:01:06 i'll livestream all comments to your ephemeral consciousness 12:01:13 livetweeting to your cortex 12:01:35 git pushing into your noggin with --force 12:01:40 haha 12:02:30 reallyUnsafe 12:03:11 Use the --force-luke. 12:03:27 git push --force ssh://localhost/dev/brain 12:03:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:03:52 this user's host has closed the connection 12:04:43 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:04:47 i guess it's better to use ``git push --force file:///dev/brain'' 12:08:29 or just /dev/brain 12:08:34 i often use "git push ." 12:14:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:15:26 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Gato_enervado_pola_presencia_dun_can.jpg 12:19:30 why do you use git push . ? 12:24:12 to update a ref in the local repository 12:27:10 excuse me sir but what does that do 12:29:41 sometimes i want to change which commit a particular branch points to 12:29:48 without checking out that branch 12:29:57 git push . is a fine way to do it 12:30:11 there are other ways 12:30:11 I'd use git branch -f for that 12:30:44 cool 12:31:22 that probably handles the case where the ref doesn't exist better 12:34:05 wow the chinese OCW doesn't even have a fuckin domain 12:34:11 it's just an ip address 12:34:15 and the port is 8080 12:34:16 lol 12:34:57 haha 12:35:01 nice 12:35:22 OCW? 12:35:58 open course ware 12:36:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:40:14 Hello! 12:40:22 hi Taneb 12:42:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:45:35 hi kmc 12:45:40 hi cheater__ 12:45:44 what's up 12:46:04 not a lot 12:47:03 i am just currently being mindblown by the fact that the first digit of my weight in kilograms in decimal at sea level earth gravitation is about to drop by 1 12:47:41 ok 12:49:47 cheater__: do you mean your mass in kilograms or you weight in newtons? 12:50:18 nortti: in before cheater__ accuses you of having an autism spectrum disorder 12:51:45 nortti: good catch, i keep forgetting that weight is a force 12:51:58 kmc: dude stop it with your autism 12:52:04 (:D) 12:53:00 so i'm browsing this blog with online video lectures and i notice a lecture by Spolsky 12:53:02 and i think 12:53:04 kmc: why would he think I have autims spectrum disorder 12:53:08 who the fuck let that guy teach at a university 12:53:14 really frightening moment 12:53:19 i look again and it's like.. Saplosky 12:53:20 some other spolsky i hope 12:53:23 ok good lol 12:53:26 lol 12:53:29 nortti: only autists know about the difference between mass and weight 12:53:38 or any other matter of correctness 12:53:49 kmc: autist. 12:54:01 autofellatio 12:54:06 autoautist 12:54:10 autistfellatio? 12:54:23 I don't want to know 12:55:14 cheater__: i streamlined my blogpost writing workflow by using inotifywait to run pandoc when i save the markdown file 12:55:19 this is a lifehack for sure 12:57:18 kmc: pandoc gives you html yes? 12:57:23 yes 12:57:33 can output many formats, but i'm doing markdown → html 12:57:46 kmc: i'm thinking i should set up a build system for my blog, so that i can jump ship from posterous any time 12:58:03 if i can set up a blog and have all the posts up in just one command, that's gotta be worth something 12:58:11 yeah 12:58:16 mine isn't quite that slick 12:58:33 it might be cool to use jekyll or hakyll or something 12:58:52 i just mean, something that uploads to posterous in one go 12:58:59 and when the time comes, have it upload to some other thing 12:59:07 like blogspot or whatever 12:59:09 blogstain 13:01:22 yes 13:01:35 with those progs i mentioned, you get just a static file tree 13:01:37 so you can use any web host 13:05:42 Please give me Coke. http://youtu.be/VuAXoSnp14M?t=13m36s 13:06:29 kmc: i don't want to use a web host because web hosts are not free 13:07:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:08:26 ion: hilarious A+++++++ would watch again 13:13:56 yay. LAME says that encoding will take aproximately 23 hours and 10 minutes -.-' 13:14:10 The encoding of what? 13:14:53 ion: sound file from wav to mp3 13:15:03 The encoding of what sound file? 13:16:06 ion: audio of brain scratch comms Q&A video ripped to 2.3GB wav file 13:16:31 * ion googles 13:16:36 oh. now it is only 23 hours 13:17:21 why is it a 2.3 gb wav file? 13:17:29 also, that's way too much. 13:17:41 and, you're probably better off transcoding speech to flac 13:17:49 because mp3 really mutilates it and makes it SUPER annoying 13:19:34 cheater__: video is 3 hours and 55 minutes long. I ripped the audio with ffmpeg using ffmpeg -i bscqa.mp3 bscqa.wav 13:23:11 yeah. 13:23:11 wow. I got response from European Parliament to my question about law making possession of hacking tools illegal 13:23:20 23 hours is way too much. 13:23:23 such as gcc? 13:23:25 nortti: what did they say? 13:23:38 ion: another reason to use clang amirite 13:23:45 cheater__: they can't say what is hacking tool 13:24:14 cheater__: remember I am using computer with 700MHz Pentium III 13:24:40 Still sounds too long. 13:25:06 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 13:25:22 nortti: oh, so you don't have sse. you've really fucked yourself over there 13:25:32 why are you using such an antique piece of technology? 13:25:32 ion: now it says 22h 30min 13:25:43 cheater__: by iBook G4 broke 13:25:51 s/by/my 13:25:53 My 66 MHz Amiga can’t encode MP3 in realtime, but most things faster than that should be able to do that. :-P 13:25:53 +/ 13:26:01 g4 is still antique 13:26:38 cheater__: is is not 13:27:17 cheater__: it isn't even 10 years old 13:27:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:27:30 nortti: if the source is mp3, why are you encoding anything at all? 13:27:38 olsner: source is wav 13:28:10 i see a very big sexist bias in this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#Ten_verified_oldest_people_living 13:28:29 nortti: "I ripped the audio with ffmpeg using ffmpeg -i bscqa.mp3 bscqa.wav"? 13:28:42 olsner: I mean bcsqa.mp4 13:29:57 olsner: I used youtube-dl to download bscqa.mp4, ffmpeg to rip it's audio and lame to convert audio to something that is not completely ridicilous in size 13:29:58 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:30:14 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:30:17 nortti 13:30:21 what's the original url of that thing 13:30:29 what codec is the original audio track? that's probably something fairly standard 13:30:47 mp4 is often aac isn't it 13:31:03 bscqa.mp4 almost certainly contains compressed audio, why not just extract it and use it as-is? 13:31:23 ion: I don't know ho to do that 13:31:58 you can do something like mplayer -dumpaudio 13:32:23 yeah recompressing is usually a bad idea anyways 13:32:31 nortti: so why are you exporting the audio again? 13:33:52 cheater__: I download bscqa.mp4, rip audio from it to bscqa.wav and encode bscqa.wav to mp3. I don't see where I am exporting the audio again 13:34:25 "again" is a matter of speech 13:34:33 tell me why you are exporting the audio 13:34:38 http://www.mediafire.com/?d94ngt9iuqmd4sd 13:36:39 ion: what is that? 13:37:37 (mediafire requires javascript so I don't know what is behind that link) 13:38:57 “BrainScratchComms Q&A Responses!.mp3” 13:39:09 cheater__: I am exporting audio because their .mp3 file is hosted on megaupload 13:39:24 ion: well I can't download it 13:39:58 Your Pentium III can’t run a browser that supports JavaScript? 13:40:32 ion: it can but hv3 crashes when trying to parse the mess on that page 13:40:52 Then try another one. 13:40:54 -!- augur has joined. 13:41:36 ion: hv3 is the only one running at speed that is acceptable 13:42:02 ion: well it and links2 with -enable-javascript but that is a joke 13:42:24 *that thing 13:43:24 try uh 13:43:24 dropbox? 13:43:54 kmc: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4536.html 13:44:05 ^best argumentation strategy 13:44:10 cheater__: how do I download file from mediafire using dropbox? 13:44:32 nortti: that was for ion really 13:44:39 can you download from dropbox using dropbox? 13:45:15 cheater__: yes. I had to install Xvesa for it to work though 13:45:30 s/I had/I'd have/ 13:46:20 cheater__: oh you meant from dl.dropbox.com? yes I can even with links 13:47:05 yeah 13:47:13 ion try uploading to dropbox if u want to 13:49:14 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:53:29 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:56:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:58:08 "Sensors detect no signs of life." *beam down* *surrounded by trees* 13:58:35 which one was that 13:58:42 i can vaguely recollect 14:00:08 kmc do you know of rexcurry.net 14:05:25 cheater: I don’t have the file. 14:05:56 ion: oh i thought you uploaded it for him 14:06:02 anyways i gotta go to the gym, ttyl 14:06:07 Nah, it was just linked from the video comments. 14:10:14 interesting. LAME stopped at 20 hours and 6 minutes 14:18:17 don't get your hopes up 14:18:36 so apparently, my gmail has 455 filters 14:18:50 around 450 of those filters are to folderize recruiter spam 14:19:11 thank DOG for the ability to export and import filters in gfail 14:21:53 so sassy 14:21:56 gfail 14:22:08 micro$haft winbloze 14:22:24 facecock 14:24:36 HAHAHAHA 14:25:23 i agree with olsner that you should dump the encoded audio out of the mp4 file 14:25:28 unless you need mp3 specifically 14:26:44 kmc: yeah. I remeber that next time when I have to do that 14:28:44 kmc: lame finished encoding when it said it still had over 20 hours left 14:28:53 km¢ 14:29:24 the cent sign is representative of the described object's perceived value 14:29:27 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:29:51 nortti: oh it finished? ok 14:30:09 nortti: i thought you meant it just stopped predicting at 20 hours, and continued to predict it'll take another 20 hours. 14:30:29 ₭₥₵ 14:31:02 \zalgo{kmc} 14:31:15 hahaha someone should really make a zalgo function for LaTeX 14:31:16 Has someone actually implemented \zalgo{}? 14:31:19 oh 14:31:26 i wish they would 14:31:31 it would be the ultimate thing ever 14:31:50 relevant: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/29402/how-do-i-make-my-document-look-like-it-was-written-by-a-cthulhu-worshipping-madm 14:32:03 * cheater__ chuckles 14:32:47 "Googling "crazy latex" did not return what I expected." 14:33:09 "scrawled by a gibbering madman, unhinged by the horrors he has witnessed" 14:36:23 sounds like ShQQ 14:38:13 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:40:09 snap 14:40:37 got u there didn't i 14:40:40 yep 14:42:42 what are the horrors i have witnessed 14:45:04 -!- nortti has joined. 14:49:38 #php 14:50:08 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 14:50:36 i've never been to #php 14:50:58 -!- nortti has joined. 15:08:28 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:09:21 -!- nortti has joined. 15:17:42 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 15:26:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:41:36 @ping 15:41:36 pong 15:42:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:42:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:06:12 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:06:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:09:30 -!- kvsolga has joined. 16:10:19 -!- xander_ has joined. 16:10:45 -!- xander_ has changed nick to Guest7797. 16:10:53 -!- Guest7797 has quit (Client Quit). 16:11:15 -!- kvsolga has quit (Client Quit). 16:25:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:31:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left. 17:04:08 kmc: lies, one time i told you to go there because funny shit was going down 17:04:12 and you joined in 17:06:46 Hello! 17:10:07 -!- monqy has joined. 17:11:15 did i 17:11:20 what funny shit went down 17:16:58 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: postun). 17:23:10 no idea 17:24:50 speaking of funny shit going down 17:25:11 guy in ##electronics joins in, asks if we know how to scan rfid in credit cards and personal id's 17:25:26 asked why he needs this, he says there's some guy stealing from him periodically 17:25:50 basically, he leaves behind expensive stuff (in the city at that, not suburbia) standing around in front of the garage or in the car 17:25:56 he's lost thousands of dollars 17:25:59 installed some cameras 17:26:13 but he can't get an ID because it's usually dark at night 17:26:30 so he figures, he saw some guys at defcon scan credit cards at a distance 17:26:41 and he figures the thief must have a credit card on him 17:26:46 so now he's trying to figure out how to do it 17:26:51 first world problem 17:27:03 low tech solution: don't leave your shit for people to steal 17:27:46 kmc: tip for nuggets, a drop of green tabasco and a dash of lime juice is all they need to taste better 17:32:29 nice 17:32:31 tabasco is great 17:32:56 i don't use it too often 17:33:07 i use it all the damn time 17:33:13 but it's good used every now and then in moderation 17:33:18 is your mouth like a kiln 17:33:20 kmc 17:33:26 is your tongue all lacerated 17:33:36 i like spicy food and i like vinegar taste 17:35:06 do you like woucester sauce 17:35:12 It’s a bit too vinegary for my taste. 17:35:16 i think so, but i don't have it often enough to say for sure 17:35:18 Tabasco, that is. 17:35:19 tabasco or WS 17:35:31 vinegar, tabasco, and sriracha are some of my favorite seasonings 17:35:37 kmc: how do you pronounce it, wor-chest-er or wooster? 17:36:04 I’d like to taste sriracha, but i haven’t found any yet. 17:36:07 the one i know is named Worcestershire sauce 17:36:11 yeah 17:36:14 and pronounce wus-ter-sher 17:36:21 fucking brits am i rite 17:36:26 i keep on arguing with people here 17:36:32 who all pronounce it incorrectly 17:36:38 and they look at me like i'm fucking stupid 17:38:21 well it's a stupid pronunciation even if it's "correct" 17:42:58 wfm 17:43:31 basically i think people should know what's "correct" but should feel free to ignore it for sanity or consistency 17:43:42 i guess you can't appreciate real historical value living in a country halfway predated by the house i live in 17:43:50 :D 17:44:22 ;P 17:47:02 i mean the american history is so recent i'm surprised it hasn't been televised from the very beginning 17:47:23 yeah 17:47:56 but the flip side is that our history is way more important and everything else is irrelevant 17:48:07 in fact glorious leader george w. bush has brought about the end of history 17:48:28 yep 17:48:34 however, kmc 17:48:36 the revolution 17:48:38 will not 17:48:41 be televised 17:48:58 shit i wasn't wrong 17:48:59 it will be livetumblr'd 17:49:11 my house actually IS about 50% the age of your country 17:49:22 usa is what 17:49:30 223 years old? 17:49:55 229 years old 17:50:03 my house is 113 years old 17:50:08 nearly there 17:50:20 3 more years 17:50:30 haha fuckin' a. 17:50:33 it's a little older than that depending on how you count 17:51:05 but yeah like 238 years max 17:51:21 we count starting the time other people stopped calling your ramshacks a colony 17:51:33 ;D 17:52:45 kmc: Remember back when Wireshark was called Ethereal? 17:52:55 I wanted to install it in Ubuntu but I was having problems. 17:52:59 those were the days, shachaf 17:53:10 So I searched for «ethereal universe». 17:53:12 good ol' ethereal. 17:53:21 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:54:41 hey kmc you know what's really hot 17:54:47 olive oil with pepper in it 17:54:51 that sounds p. good 17:55:02 T KMC WHAT 17:55:45 have you ever tried any of that stuff 17:55:57 it's really nice and hot 17:56:10 you don't feel the heat until you're done chewing and it goes down your throat 17:57:22 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:57:28 -!- nortti has joined. 18:00:40 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:01:31 -!- nortti_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:03:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:05:22 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:09:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:10:04 hello 18:13:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: dinner). 18:15:54 kmc do you like asian food http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4023.jpg 18:16:45 yes 18:17:12 i'm having trouble decoding this one 18:17:32 i think the first one says that if I don't wash my hands after taking a shit, I will get sick 18:18:06 also ways of killing flies 18:26:27 do you know chinese 18:26:38 here's some chinese porn for you http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4053.jpg 18:28:26 i don't know chinese 18:28:30 that sucks 18:28:43 why 18:29:23 it sucks to have diarrhea and vomitosis at the same time 18:29:26 ok guess what this one is http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4082.jpg 18:29:37 aids? 18:29:40 no 18:29:42 near 18:29:48 herpes? 18:30:17 lol, no. 18:30:23 i was thinking edit distance. 18:30:23 swine flu 18:30:27 declaration of war on SARS 18:30:28 sars? 18:30:29 aha 18:30:31 sars ~ aids 18:30:39 ur so clever kmc 18:30:44 ah the grumpy little fellows are 18:30:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS_coronavirus 18:30:47 you almost guessed quicker than i told you 18:31:03 Does anyone happen to know of any good papers about techniques for prevention of distributed denial of service attacks? 18:31:18 no 18:31:35 because mostly it's a big business that people don't share their techniques in 18:31:53 surely, there must be some papers? 18:31:56 kmc: lol @ "grumpy little fellows" 18:32:28 AnotherTest: meh 18:33:50 cheater__: have you read http://www.vice.com/read/life-is-a-cosmic-giggle-803-v18n5 18:34:00 kmc: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4057.jpg 18:34:18 more http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/index.html 18:34:38 kmc is that the one about the junkie girl 18:34:52 how did i know what you'd post 18:34:54 oh, kmc. 18:35:24 have a look at that jpg i just posted, but not before you drop some acid and put on your stoner goggles 18:36:07 no thx 18:36:55 As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts. 18:39:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:46:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:47:58 kmc: r u unhappy b/cuz i stereotyped u 18:48:04 no 18:48:06 i'm not unhappy 18:48:24 kmc: I read that article! 18:49:07 cool shachaf 18:49:31 It was mostly when you posted it in the other channel a few minutes ago. 18:49:39 ok 18:50:02 i think you posted it like last year 18:50:03 or so 18:51:37 *+ago 18:55:06 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:56:28 man, the renamer script for vim is a lifesaver 18:56:57 == kmc in the other channel. 18:57:06 I typically try not to get involved in this argument. 18:59:03 -!- zzo38 has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: You die in the end | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 18:59:27 YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF THAT 19:00:03 zzo38: I peeked at the end of the book and I'm still alive. 19:01:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:01:46 Hello! 19:02:46 Haneb 19:11:22 shachaf: No, you looked at the wrong page. The correct book is the one with poison on the end, therefore it will kill you too 19:17:08 http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57411977-1/the-black-hole-los-alamos-lab-surplus-store-surprises/ 19:18:40 experienced this so often: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4528.html 19:20:10 ? 19:26:28 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4513.html 19:28:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: You forgot!!!! Oops try again please). 19:46:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:51:04 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:51:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:53:27 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:55:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:10:46 -!- jix_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:14:18 Although left-handed people make up only 10 percent of the population as a whole, they compose a full 20 percent of schizophrenics. Is it because all those right-handed can openers slowly drive them mad? Possibly. " 20:17:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:18:07 -!- jix has joined. 20:18:13 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:22:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:23:56 "That's right: Ovoviviparous sharks eat each other in the womb. Particularly nurse sharks, which just proves that science loves irony." 20:26:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:26:17 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:38 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:42:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:58:29 hard computing problem: is it possible to have a computable program that 1) computes any non-halting program given as input and 2) assuming that the program's internal state at time t is P(t), eventually computes P(t) by simulation of itself for all t? 21:00:11 Let's say that it must eventually output a complete summary of all the actions it did at any given step in its self-simulation, while also producing whatever output the input program would produce. 21:00:28 it would be like using gdb to debug gdb 21:00:58 where the underlying gdb was always being used for the same purpose 21:04:53 no idea but sounds fun 21:12:59 -!- david_werecat has joined. 21:18:18 -!- derdon has joined. 21:20:04 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:20:55 very lulzy trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=ZJkd5X2aG34&NR=1 21:21:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:21:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:25:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:33:00 ais523: 21:33:09 16:58 < quintopia> hard computing problem: is it possible to have a computable program that 1) computes any non-halting program given as input and 2) assuming that the program's internal state at time t is P(t), eventually computes P(t) by simulation of itself for all t? 21:33:14 17:00 < quintopia> Let's say that it must eventually output a complete summary of all the actions it did at any given step in its self-simulation, while also producing whatever output the input program would produce. 21:33:19 17:00 < quintopia> it would be like using gdb to debug gdb 21:33:23 17:00 < quintopia> where the underlying gdb was always being used for the same purpose 21:34:08 err, hmm, don't want to think about that right now :) 21:47:49 -!- david_werecat has joined. 21:49:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:56:59 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:57:32 omg 21:57:39 kmc's first name is keegan??? 22:00:41 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:12:52 http://i.imgur.com/sX0i5.gif 22:16:05 -!- ais523_ has joined. 22:18:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:18:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 22:19:48 haha 22:20:12 ion: amazing 22:20:34 Phantom_Hoover: welcome to 1990 22:22:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:25:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:27:11 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:27:16 -!- augur has joined. 22:27:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:43:34 -!- nooga has joined. 23:02:10 ok thats funny 23:02:49 possibly burn scars for life.. but funny 23:07:05 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:10:52 itidus20: ? 23:11:09 @ ion's link 23:11:37 Ah. :) 23:16:25 The helmet... it does nothing! 23:18:22 -!- augur has joined. 23:33:49 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r84d-msuyp0#t=32s 23:36:48 Someone should record that youtube video from their screen using a phone camera and upload that to youtube. 23:37:39 sorry this link 23:37:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r84d-msuyp0&t=32s 23:37:53 can ignore the first one 23:38:10 It’s the same one. 23:38:22 yes but i don't like the first url... 23:38:29 it didn't work right for me 2012-05-14: 00:03:29 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:03:35 kmc 00:03:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:20:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:48 -!- augur has joined. 00:35:17 !topic http://wtpl.heroku.com/ 00:38:36 Some people say that sports prediction from horoscope works better than personal prediction from horoscope. What is your opinion on these matters? 00:39:16 0 = 0 00:39:48 ion: True, but too simple. 00:40:14 I am skeptical but can think of two possible reasons which can allow it to work sometimes. 00:40:27 (I am not counting such things as fluke) 00:42:07 Some people say that sports prediction from the variation of latency in pinging google.com works better than personal prediction from that. 00:43:49 The two reasons I am think of: (1) psychological effect (such as superstitious people's belief in such things), and (2) lighting conditions (considering house positions on horoscopes). 00:44:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:45:29 Now what will you answer to this? (Simply saying it is good or it is bad, is not the good answer; you must critical thinking too) 00:52:27 zzo38: I think the position of the Sun might potentially matter, but the positions of other heavenly bodies are unlikely to be even visible during the game 00:52:56 ais523: True. About lighting conditions, yes it is the Sun which I was refering to. 00:53:37 and directly looking at the time and date would be more direct than going via horoscope 00:54:21 ais523: Sunrise/sunset and so on change for different days and different locations, there are also timezones which are not always same as solar time, and then there is daylight saving time, etc 00:54:31 indeed 00:54:34 I meant true local time 00:54:37 not local time from timezone 00:54:45 OK 00:55:08 timezones are only approximations intended to standardise time across a country, so that people a long way from each other can communicate about time 00:55:14 they came about when railways became popular 00:55:26 before then, long-distance communication and travel wasn't fast enough for the time differences to matter 00:55:30 but everyone needed to agree on train times 00:56:13 OK, I didn't know that but yes it seem good 00:56:25 To predict anything about a game based on the position of the Sun, you’ll certainly need the angle of the playfield relative to the Sun as input as well. 00:59:35 ion: aren't playfields usually flat? 00:59:42 but you'd need to know latitude and longitude and altitude 00:59:50 to calculate the angle 01:05:17 The sun will potentially shine more in the eyes of one team than the other, or perhaps illuminate both equally from the side. 01:05:18 It may help also to know rules of the game. 01:05:31 ion: Yes those are my thoughts too. 01:05:51 So you can’t make predictions just based on “horoscopes” that don’t take stuff like that into account. 01:06:59 A horoscope chart will include the houses, showing you the ascendant and midheaven and so on. You need to know the location and the date/time to calculate house positions. 01:07:14 lol @ linus https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 01:07:32 Of course you need to take things into account; a raw horoscope chart will simply tell you the positions and aspects. 01:11:34 So that is lighting conditions; the Mars and other planets are extremely unlikely to affect such things. But, psychological effect of people believing in superstitious things based on these planets may effect decisions of some superstitious players. 01:16:37 Another thing which can potentially affect lighting conditions is a solar eclipse. There are three objects on the horoscope related to eclipses: the Sun, the Moon, and the North Node. I have heard the story of a king who was frightened to death by a solar eclipse. This is unlikely to happen today, but eclipses can still happen. 01:28:54 -!- xander345 has joined. 01:29:03 i come bearing good news 01:32:28 ah well cya 01:32:33 -!- xander345 has quit (Client Quit). 01:32:54 There is no news. 01:54:27 zzo38 01:54:34 give me all your money, this is a stick-up 01:58:48 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:02:47 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 02:20:07 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:11 -!- DH____ has joined. 02:28:37 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:30:24 cheater__: No 02:33:36 ow :( ok 02:43:47 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:45:05 Is Phantom_Hoover alive? 02:53:20 Sgeo: are you able to see the video on this site? http://www.intuit.ru/department/mathematics/imathanalysis/14/ 02:57:00 cheater__, what video 02:57:30 there should be a video there, do you see one? 02:57:38 Ugh, do I have to unblock flash sitewide for this 02:57:50 no i don't think so 02:57:54 i didn't have to 02:58:16 1 sec 02:59:19 this one works right? http://www.intuit.ru/department/mathematics/angeom/1/ 03:19:40 Yes. 03:19:55 However, it should be noted that I do not speak Russian. 04:11:46 Not even Russians speak Russian. 04:12:00 Russian is actually Newspeak. 04:12:36 Sgeo: thanks 04:13:26 ?? 04:41:57 thanks for checking it 04:43:24 definitely this week's higlight: i flame a n00b and he comes back and says he's sorry. 04:45:21 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:45:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:55:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:56:12 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:07:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:09:44 Idea. "All Sliver creatures have Soulbond and 'As long as this creature is paired with another creature, all slivers have the abilities of each of those creatures.' and 'As long as this creature is paired with another creature, each of those creatures is a sliver in addition to its other types.'" 05:09:49 I call it "Assimilating Sliver" 05:10:14 Borg Sliver 05:10:43 Also, "Creature - Eldrazi Sliver" :) 05:11:02 No. 05:11:03 Just no. 05:11:22 Well, it'd happen if you played Assimilating Sliver. 05:13:53 Anything that results in "All Slivers gain Annihilator anything" is "no" 05:14:03 Mistform Ultimus has been screwing up trivia questions for years 05:14:15 (as well as the keyword version of its ability that turned up all over the place in Lorwyn) 05:15:38 Madoka-Kaname: What, and Mirrorweave isn't? 05:19:58 Soulbond? 05:20:15 Sgeo: Mechanic in Avacyn Restored. 05:20:39 Use t3h googles 05:21:30 Ah, ok 05:31:10 pikhq: oh, that's out already? 05:31:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:31:15 not really following Magic nowadays 05:31:47 heh, today's daily mtg article is about soulbond's history 05:37:55 ais523: Avacyn Restored was actually a rather good set; might be worth caring about. 05:39:01 And I am going to be upset if they screw up Return to Ravnica... 05:41:09 -!- augur has joined. 05:41:20 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:42:12 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:44:17 doing Ravnica again? must be running out of ideas :) 05:44:32 I did enjoy Ravnica, although Time Spiral is still my favourite block 05:45:22 Either it'll suck or it'll be awesome. I don't see it going in between. 05:45:40 And, yeah, Time Spiral was glorious. 05:53:50 apparently it was unpopular sales-wise, though 05:53:55 compared to the sets around it 05:54:54 i had a dream that satan worshippers and some sort of vampire enthusiasts were holding a joint meeting, and the vampire dudes were reading stories from their vampire bible (presumably written by charlaine harris) 05:56:51 I like the puzzle games for Magic: the Gathering, and figuring out reactions between existing and possible card texts, and playing in Limited tournaments 05:58:13 for some reason, the vampire dudes had a crusifix from which they drank blood (and occasionally it was wine) and another crusifix that played scary music. 06:00:23 ais523: Well, it did come between Ravnica and Lorwyn. 06:00:37 pikhq: Lorwyn's the reason I stopped playing Magic 06:00:43 And, unfortunately, as a nostalgia set it would have somewhat less general appeal. 06:00:53 and I had nothing to be nostalgic about, I started with Ninth Edition 06:01:14 Still, Time Spiral was a delightful set, design-wise. 06:01:17 I just liked it mechanically 06:03:23 Also, why did *Lorwyn* make you stop playing Magic? 06:03:36 didn't like the flavour, didn't like the mechanics, didn't like the focus on creatures 06:03:49 So... Not a big tribal fan? 06:04:04 I like Slivers, but I don't like tribal for the sake of tribal 06:04:55 Surprised it wasn't Shards that did it. (seriously, *six fucking years* of multicolor in Standard?) 06:05:06 shards just persuaded me not to come back :) 06:09:07 I think the focus on creatures recently has turned me off Magic somewhat 06:11:50 Ah, you're one of those people that does things like break Tamiyo. :P http://magiccards.info/avr/en/79.html 06:12:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 06:12:31 oh, I was wrong, it was /planeswalkers/ that turned me off Magic 06:12:35 forgot those existed, bleh 06:13:10 only reason I wasn't raging during Future Sight was that I assumed that Tarmogoyf's flavour text was a joke 06:13:14 (which it could have been, quite easily) 06:14:08 huh, Avacyn Restored is a large? I assumed it was a small set 06:14:10 If it makes you feel better, most planeswalkers are little more than a Lightning Bolt sink. 06:14:18 Yeah, it was a weird block-ending large set. 06:15:06 and planeswalkers being a lightning bolt sink ties into why I don't like creatures so much 06:15:27 I don't mind simple creatures, but I prefer the creatures to sit there on the battlefield and do, at most, combat tricks 06:16:04 while the players maneouver around them with their instants and sorceries and enchantments trying to give one side the advantage over the other, either by gaining combat advantage with creatures, or directly 06:16:54 And they've been making creatures do more largely in hopes of making tournament decks actually run creatures. 06:17:13 Kinda-sorta worked. 06:17:32 Though the recent Pro Tour winning deck only ran any creatures in sideboard. 06:17:47 Just a giant pile of miracle spells and cantrips. 06:18:06 haha :) 06:18:18 purpose of creatures is to stop you dying to red 06:18:48 UPDATE, UPDATE, give me your answer do 06:18:55 hi 06:19:21 or even white or green, arguably, but the strategy's most commonly seen in red 06:19:40 (that of just putting down lots of cheap creatures early and overrunning the opponent before they can set up whatever they were going to do) 06:19:57 Planeswalkers end up having very different feel to me in formats where Doubling Season is legal. 06:20:22 Tamiyo now reads "3{U}{U}: You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size" and "Whenever a card is put into your graveyard from anywhere, you may return it to your hand."" 06:20:27 :) 06:20:36 pikhq, do you play MtG online, and if so, where and how? 06:20:45 Sgeo: I play MtG IRL. 06:21:34 to play it online "officially", you have to pay as much money as it'd cost to get the cards otherwise 06:21:40 pikhq: *two emblems :) 06:21:49 (I know it doesn't work on emblems, but it /should/) 06:21:56 ais523, and thus, no desire on my part to play MtGO 06:21:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:22:00 indeed 06:22:03 nor mine 06:22:12 Do people like Cockatrice? 06:22:18 the physical cards are actually worth something for the art design, IMO, apart from the game (although not as much as they cost) 06:22:36 I happen to dislike many of the rules in Magic: the Gathering 06:22:55 I also prefer Limited format games over Constructed 06:25:40 I don't think they need emblems, tribals, state-based effects causing tokens to cease to exist, rule that a land card cannot be played as its other types, etc. There are better ways to write the rules to avoid these things. 06:26:19 “A lot of people still confuse Austria and Australia, I hope this makes it clear.” https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OE9rTUfHE8k/T6_yazqUw0I/AAAAAAAAA8I/jvMOuw0z_tA/w497-h373/Jda6h.jpg 06:35:44 We can make up the new game, based on Magic: the Gathering but with differences, including that you do not have to purchase the cards (you can also print them out or write them out, or play by computer; you don't have to pay). As well as making the standard game Limited instead of Constructed. 06:41:26 Well, there's a reason for the whole purchasing the cards thing: So WotC makes money 06:59:00 Yes, I understand. But, we make up new game it is differ, not using the old cards therefore not using old compatibility rules either. Someone can sell cards if they want to but is not required to play game. Or you can write puzzle-game too. But rules are many differences nevertheless. 07:17:17 zzo38: Of the tournament formats, Limited is quite a lot better IMO. 07:17:42 It's both more fun and a much better test of skill than Constructed. 07:18:09 Not to mention it completely avoids rich-kid syndrome. 07:18:38 Which is by far the worst part of Magic. 07:18:45 I actually prefer Constructed, especially when I'm beating the world's best decks with ones that I can afford 07:19:09 sometimes with flukes, but it's still amusing 07:19:49 I tend to do vintage casual constructed (okay, so most of my decks are modern too, because I'm cheap. :P) 07:20:25 Really, Magic is at its best in casual play... 07:22:25 Friggin' rarity-directly-mapping-to-usefulness. 07:23:23 It might be good business, but it also warps the game into a contest of money. 07:30:04 pikhq: And that kind of contest about money is one things I dislike about it. And your thing you describe also why Limited is better I agree that Limited is better in that (and other) way. 07:44:47 pikhq: rarity mapping to usefulness is partly to accommodate Limited by making drafting first-picks more important 07:45:09 but it might be more interesting the other way, where cards only useful in Constructed are placed at rare to avoid them impinging on Limited too much 07:47:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:47:33 ais523: I agree with you on that; I do think that setting the rarity of cards in that way might improve the game (it could be partially tried to see what happen, I suppose). 07:47:46 Hello 07:48:25 the problem with the rarities at the moment is mythic, really 07:49:07 they're trying to make exciting cards powerful, but also tend to put exciting cards at mythic (so that getting them is /more/ exciting, and to make booster packs more valuable because people will have to open more of them to get single cards that they can sell on to people who want them) 07:50:11 Yes these are the many problems with the game, relating to the cards. There are problems with the rules too, but there are also problems with the cards like you are describing. 07:51:45 ais523: Agreed, strongly. Also, I feel like rarity should be more a function of how general a card is. Something like Birds of Paradise should be common, not rare. 07:52:03 pikhq: currently specific cards are consistently placed at uncommon 07:52:24 which sort-of makes sense for limited, because a specific card can be drafted around 07:52:41 especially if it's specific and also one of the set's main mechanics 07:52:49 Yeah... General is common or rare, specific is uncommon, and anything "big" is rare, and anything awesome is mythic rare. 07:53:40 Cavern of Souls should not be rare. 07:53:48 http://magiccards.info/avr/en/226.html BTW 07:53:54 what about One with Nothing? people hated that being rare 07:54:01 I guess if all rares were like that it wouldn't matter 07:54:23 If it's a card that nearly every deck wants, it shouldn't be friggin' rare. 07:58:12 common or uncommon, in your opinion? 07:58:25 arguably it's narrow, but it's so customizably narrow it fits into most decks 07:58:46 (which is apparently deliberate; apparently, they needed to nerf Mana Leak due to a mistake in balancing Snapcaster Mage) 07:58:49 One with Nothing, depends on what the rest of the set's doing. 07:59:04 Cavern of Souls? Common. 07:59:05 Well, if you manage to get One with Nothing in your deck for some reason such as drafting and so on, then, if it is in your hand, and then it is useful to you then please play this card. 08:00:09 It's something you'll be happy to play in any deck that happens to weigh towards a single creature type. 08:00:26 Which even in the absence of specific tribal effects, is reasonably common. 08:00:31 I guess another example is dual land, which should be common (but putting it at rare is obviously better for revenue) 08:00:51 Dual lands are really good examples of this. 08:01:19 If I am playing with two colors, I want duals out the wazoo. I want to pretend duals are basic lands. 08:02:13 $100 *mana bases* are a fucking joke. 08:02:19 right 08:02:29 my best deck is five-color combo 08:02:37 and it basically contains all the dual lands I own 08:02:55 That *in specific* presents a gigantic barrier to entry for tournaments. 08:02:57 (I move them between decks when I need them, obviously, rather than having separate lands for separate decks) 08:04:07 It's plausible that by doing this WotC could make *more* money, actually... 08:04:16 By having more people play and more people play in tournaments. 08:04:47 I have a sneaking suspicion the rarity issues end up driving people off the game. 08:05:09 Make Limited the standard game. 08:06:28 limited is even worse, then you have to buy booster packs every game you play 08:07:33 And mythics only make it worse, really: I can't realistically play planeswalkers without either paying through the nose for a playset or buying *several boxes*? That's just shitty. 08:09:20 ais523: But Limited is a better game anyways. Perhaps if you can put the cards back in the shuffle and make up random packs at the tournament, do not need to purchase (and print!) new cards every time. 08:09:47 even when not worrying about the cost, I prefer Constructed, but perhaps that's more to do with the sort of games I like 08:10:59 I prefer Limited regardless of cost, but you play how you prefer. 08:11:11 ais523: My preference for limited is almost exclusively due to balance. 08:12:39 The game's balanced around either limited or assuming everyone has $500 a block to blow. 08:12:46 s/block/set/ 08:13:50 Or, well, assuming everyone involved is on an equal financial footing, really. 08:14:06 Black Lotus is balanced if everybody's got one. :P 08:15:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:15:29 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:15:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:15:41 -!- derdon has joined. 08:17:50 pikhq: I'm not convinced; budget decks can often get quite close to the best non-budget decks 08:19:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:19:54 ais523: http://magiccards.info/mbs/en/99.html Deal with that in pauper why don't you. (okay, fine, you need a vintage card pool to make that even slightly feasible to pull out.) 08:20:28 mana leak? 08:20:54 oblivion ring (is that common?)? 08:21:10 Oblivion ring got bumped to uncommon. Because... ? 08:21:22 Got a friend who can, with a god hand, drop that sucker turn 2. 08:21:24 it was common once, though 08:22:21 actually, I think white has quite a few exilers at common 08:22:38 Tinker, BTW, is obscenity. 08:22:40 admittedly, you're probably going to be needing to play blue or white to deal with it at common, though 08:23:17 because of the trample and indestructibility, missing either would give loads of ours 08:23:18 *outs 08:23:22 oh, Pacifism works 08:23:31 also white, though 08:24:33 Also, sol ring + island + tinker = turn 2 Blightsteel. 08:24:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: My father hit my head on a truck (which was illegally parked), but I have a percussion!!). 08:25:26 tinker's banned in just about every format 08:25:34 (there is a reason sol ring and tinker are restricted, though) 08:25:46 and a reason force of will is all over the place in formats where they're allowed 08:26:24 losing three cards is less bad than losing the game 08:26:59 $50 card there. 08:27:20 (I assume you didn't mean force of will?) 08:27:33 might have got the wrong name 08:27:37 counterspell costing pitch two 08:27:48 Guess it's similar at least. 08:28:03 Force of Will is counterspell costing 1 life and exile 1 blue card. 08:28:14 oh, got the right name, wrong effect 08:28:19 pitch 1 and 1 life is obviously better 08:28:30 and so would obviously be used instead 08:28:34 I can believe it's $50 08:28:41 For "heavily played" no less. 08:29:19 Also, recommending counterspells as a solution doesn't help with someone who also thinks counterspells are overpowered. :P 08:30:39 it's natural that overpowered things would be necessary to deal with other overpowered things :) 08:30:47 arguably, it's card draw that's overpowered rather than counterspells 08:30:54 counterspells don't really work without a draw engine backing them up 08:31:30 I also happen to think that forms of draw effects should be in all colors... 08:32:12 rather than just red and blue? (and red isn't allowed to get card advantage from it unless its hand is empty) 08:32:26 Obviously, not doable without basically rebalancing every single part of the game though. (elves with *card draw*? Holy fuck.) 08:32:29 Yeah. 08:32:45 I am having a nostalgia trip right now 08:32:55 Found a "Sgeo was here" sign I posted in AW in 2002 08:35:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:36:46 screb 08:36:51 No lambdabot :( 08:36:58 Phantom_Hoover, when I have time, I can play Worms 08:37:05 And I can host and I have access to Full Wormage 08:37:25 I have a chemistry exam this afternoon so I'm not playing games before then. 08:38:27 -!- azaq23 has joined. 08:38:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 08:38:54 Ah, ok 08:39:04 Good luck! 09:09:42 -!- qfr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:11:05 http://uhatsearch.appspot.com/prices/Heavy 09:11:07 Holy shit. 09:11:17 I had no idea the TF2 economy was *this* serious. 09:12:05 -!- qfr has joined. 09:13:00 Phantom_Hoover, I'm not signed in to Steam 09:13:01 Hmm, I guess each of those items would require, on average, an investment of 200 to get, so it's not all that surprising. 09:13:06 Oh, right. 09:13:22 Sgeo, it's a chart of hats with particle effects in TF2. 09:13:29 Ah 09:13:40 The cheapest is $37. 09:14:00 The most expensive is $400 and most are over $100l 09:15:31 It's not even all that uncommon to see people in matches wearing them; I guess the world is just full of Gregors. 09:16:14 -!- itidus21 has joined. 09:18:22 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:30:36 I only have three hats in my "I like wearing these from time to time" collection 09:31:53 -!- itidus20 has joined. 09:35:14 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:35:14 Phantom_Hoover: No, no, no, Gregor wears hats IRL. 09:35:28 The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. 09:35:31 True, but how many of them are on fire? 09:35:46 Also much more vibrant: I swear, his color choices glow. 09:35:57 Also no, on account of being classy != pretending to be classy. 09:36:08 cf. reddit's unbearable deluge of 'good sir's. 09:36:52 Y'mean hats aren't the source of class? 09:40:18 No. 09:43:41 Reddit lied to me! 09:48:08 Neither are monocles, HTH 09:51:55 `addquote The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. True, but how many of them are on fire? 09:52:08 855) The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. True, but how many of them are on fire? 09:52:11 `quote 09:52:13 `quote 09:52:14 `quote 09:52:16 `quote 09:52:17 `quote 09:52:27 150) Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). 09:52:32 131) reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it 09:52:46 5) GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 09:52:49 168) Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. 09:52:50 428) oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. 09:53:12 I don't get 150 or 168, although 168 is less funny if you don't get it 09:53:14 opinions? 09:53:41 168 I'd say is the worst 09:53:49 I think 150 is funny due to its absurdity 09:53:55 `delquote 168 09:53:58 ​*poof* Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. 09:54:00 we're in agreement, I think 09:54:10 and elliott isn't here so he can't tell us why we're wrong 10:07:01 -!- cheater__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:07:29 -!- cheater__ has joined. 10:09:26 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:10:08 -!- wareya has joined. 10:12:33 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 10:15:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:18:04 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:37:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:53:42 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:56:27 -!- rszeno has joined. 10:56:49 hello everybody 10:58:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:00:55 Hello 11:11:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:26:27 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:30:25 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:30:25 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 11:30:25 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:43:17 hello 11:43:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:43:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 11:43:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:44:35 hi cheater__ 11:44:39 how's tricks 11:45:12 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:45:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:45:17 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:45:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 11:49:43 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 11:50:02 -!- itidus21 has joined. 11:52:42 hmm, it's weird having an argument with someone on reddit where there are a bunch of people upvoting all your comments and downvoting all the comments of the person you're arguing with 11:52:44 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:53:00 strange having internet arguments and being proved right that quickly 11:54:43 kmc: o hi 11:54:52 kmc: just made some fish dish 11:54:54 pish tosh 11:55:57 what kind of fish 11:58:56 alaska salmon 11:58:58 nothing fancy 11:59:04 mechanically separated 11:59:18 it was on promotion (is that what you say?) 12:00:04 i tried some fancy spices today 12:01:06 atlantic grain salt with a grinder, lime juice (again), lemon peppa, galgant, and a nice 3 pepper mix 12:01:10 not all at once 12:01:43 i did salt on all, then tried lemon peppa several times with and without galgant, and then tried the pepper. 12:01:50 lemon peppa is very spicy. 12:02:00 i expected it to be more.. lemony. 12:02:14 oh, also orange-flavour olive oil 12:02:20 -!- qfr has quit (Changing host). 12:02:20 -!- qfr has joined. 12:02:21 huh, didn't know that's a thing 12:02:22 which is fun because it smells so nice 12:02:28 what 12:02:31 galgant or lemon peppa? 12:02:48 orange-flavour olive oil 12:02:51 -!- Taneb has left ("Leaving"). 12:02:58 oh yeah you get lots of different flavours 12:03:03 here's a tip 12:03:12 lemon or vanilla ice cream with lemon olive oil 12:03:19 galgant is like ginger right? 12:03:20 tru story 12:03:31 yeah but it's h4wt3r 12:03:37 i think it's called galangal in english 12:03:51 yea 12:04:00 i have seen that name 12:04:31 have you ever had any fresh galangal? 12:04:39 dude. that is fucking insane 12:04:46 i've never eaten anything spicier 12:04:47 i haven't 12:04:51 it's like 12:05:05 you take this tiny piece, like 0.5 cm on the side 12:05:12 and you chew on it 12:05:16 and you don't feel anything 12:05:23 then it hits you 12:05:38 and it's like, super-concentrated ginger 12:05:48 you like spicy stuff you gotta try it 12:06:14 i will 12:06:18 also it may only have been the one i've had but the taste was much more bitter 12:06:21 like they shoved aspirin in it 12:06:23 there's an indian grocery down the street 12:06:25 they might have it 12:06:39 yea 12:07:02 i guess it's from southeast asia 12:07:07 i should find a thai grocery, that would be baller 12:07:11 do they speak rike rear indian immiglants 12:07:14 "Polish vodka Zoladkowa Gorzka is flavoured with galanga." 12:07:21 lol 12:07:23 wtf 12:07:41 that vodka is actually the secret tip 12:07:43 like 12:07:45 "The secret recipe includes, among others: wormwood, gentian root, pepper, and galangal." 12:07:52 this sounds like it would taste like satan's own asshole 12:08:01 for students and shit 12:08:06 it's not too expensive but it kicks well and doesn't taste of potatos or any other cheap vodka taste 12:08:24 speaking of satan's own asshole 12:08:31 i have a tip for you for a drink that you'll love 12:08:37 you will love it cause it has tobasco on it 12:08:40 in 12:09:14 you need vodka, tabasco, and raspberry sirup (the kind you make soft drinks out of, not the one for topping ice cream) 12:09:38 you take a small shot glass, fill it 1/3 with the sirup 12:09:53 then you fill the rest with vodka slowly so as not to disturb the sirup 12:10:08 once that's in you add a drop of tobasco, it hovers nicely in a sphere above the sirup 12:10:10 looks cool 12:10:21 and is said to be really good for parties 12:10:47 i served it on several birthdays and people loved it 12:11:14 u gotta try it 12:11:28 possibly with "Polish vodka Zoladkowa Gorzka" 12:11:40 oh in case you're wondering what the name means 12:11:50 it translates to "stomach vodka, bitter" 12:11:57 i never understood that. 12:12:14 i think they make it by fermenting goat stomachs or something. 12:12:21 probably not though. 12:14:11 Greater galangal is native to Java. It is widely used in Indonesia and Malaysia as a food flavouring and spice. Lesser galangal is native to China, growing mainly on the southeast coast. It is also grown in India and the rest of South East Asia. Although barely used in Europe today, both galangals were formerly imported in great quantity, as medicine and spice. 12:14:42 fuck 12:14:49 there are people who snuff galangal 12:14:51 i brewed ginger beer a few times 12:14:55 that's gotta be unhealthy 12:14:55 i wonder if you could make galangal beer 12:15:00 i bet you could 12:15:07 after all it's not like real beer is it 12:15:14 not really 12:15:38 so kmc my next project might be with the yii php web framework 12:15:45 try to pronounce it 12:15:47 "yii" 12:16:15 you just like make a strong ginger tea, put sugar and yeast in, and let it sit a couple of days 12:16:29 haha 12:16:40 actually sounds like disgusting shit 12:16:42 it will produce a bit of alcohol but it gets un-tasty before it hits typical beer abv 12:16:55 i could never drink alcohol, it really dejects me 12:17:13 why yii php 12:17:22 because i can get a job 12:17:25 and i need the money 12:17:39 i'll suck dick for nuggets 12:20:40 not everyone has hit it big with ksplorifice like you have kmc 12:20:59 i'm just a pauper 12:22:52 what kind of nuggets 12:22:54 chicken? 12:23:07 any 12:23:10 even poop nuggets 12:23:50 :( 12:23:51 but i was thinking of chicken nuggets, yes. 12:28:29 so apparently the galangal i have had was Greater Galangal 12:28:49 which is orange to brown 12:29:05 indians apparently only have lesser galangal, which is red 12:29:21 red to reddish brown 12:30:19 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 12:30:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:30:50 Hello 12:31:05 hi Taneb 12:31:08 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:31:12 oh hi 12:31:21 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:31:49 -!- ion has joined. 12:35:42 man, american accents are so annoying in movies sometimes 12:35:48 they shoul like 12:35:59 always dub a british english version 12:39:24 -!- function has changed nick to variable. 12:47:51 -!- nortti has joined. 13:08:09 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:14:55 -!- asiekierka has joined. 13:34:52 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:46:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:46:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:46:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:51:18 Tried Portal 2 in coop mode with a friend. It’s fun. 13:52:00 network or split-screen? 13:53:09 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:00:56 Over the Internet. 14:01:01 with VoIP 14:07:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:15:13 Tried Portal 2 in coop mode with a friend. It’s fun. 14:15:22 A selected moment from coöp mode between me and a friend: 14:15:45 *we both enter the map, and immediately try to jump over a short fence to our deaths, failing* "Wow, I like how both of us immediately try to kill ourselves." 14:16:24 :-) 14:24:03 -!- rszeno has left. 14:29:44 The voip thing is a good idea in that particular game. 14:31:12 lol coöp 14:36:54 “Listen” http://translate.google.fi/#fi|fi|co%C3%B6peration 14:42:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:42:53 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:45:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:47:54 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:49:58 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:50:09 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Client Quit). 14:50:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:58:49 A selected moment from cop mode between me and a friend: 14:58:49 *we both enter the map, and immediately try to jump over a short fence to our deaths, failing* "Wow, I like how both of us immediately try to kill ourselves." 14:59:00 Fuckers, I've been looking for someone to play coop with for ages. 14:59:25 -!- nortti has joined. 15:07:31 The 66 % discount is still active, get a friend to purchase it now that it’s cheap. 15:15:19 Phantom_Hoover, I've got a choice of two, and yet I don't. 15:15:35 Taneb, I will play with you!!! 15:15:46 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 15:16:14 > 0.75/0.80 15:16:15 0.9375 15:16:17 My computer isn't good enough :/ 15:16:32 But now I have a choice of THREE and yet I don't 15:16:35 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:16:42 > 0.67/0.80 15:16:42 0.8375 15:18:15 Taneb, steal better computer 15:18:17 from elliott 15:18:25 I have a slightly more legal plan 15:18:43 /buy/ a better computer 15:18:46 no 15:18:48 steal 15:18:49 elliott 15:18:50 does not use 15:18:51 it 15:18:53 anyway 15:19:08 Taneb: how good is your computer? 15:19:47 nortti, good enough to play minecraft to my standards, not good enough to play minecraft to anyone else's standards 15:20:22 Phantom_Hoover, but then I'd lose my Neutral Good license! 15:21:02 `? hexham 15:21:05 hexham? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:21:09 `? Hexham 15:21:12 Hexham? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:21:20 `ls wisdom 15:21:23 ​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ internationale \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad \ monads \ monoid \ monqy 15:21:30 `pastelogs `learn Hexham 15:22:02 `? misspellings of croissant 15:22:03 No output. 15:22:06 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:23:01 Taneb: I can't take seriously anyone who claims to have computer not good enough if they have computer that is much faster than mine 15:23:36 Do you play Portal 2 a lot? 15:23:57 Taneb: oh. you ment for gaming 15:24:17 my computer had a signifigant gpu upgrade recently 15:24:25 but.. i am at a loss of what software to use :D 15:25:00 write your own :) 15:25:06 i work my computer hard with xchat 15:25:58 itidus21, connect to ALL the servers 15:26:13 all the irc servers on earth? 15:26:17 And join #esoteric and complain about how now you don't know what software to use 15:26:20 itidus21, ALL OF THEM 15:28:12 ok i surrender! i have emulators, and lego wolfenstein, and some unused 3d modelling stuff, 15:28:36 i waste my life away like so many trailing periods.......... 15:29:00 itidus21, get Dwarf Fortress 15:30:23 no no i had an evil idea about DF... 15:30:41 Then get Minecraft? 15:31:02 exactly.. the thought occured to me that DF could be rendered in voxels 15:31:22 `quote 855 15:31:25 It could, quite easily. 15:31:25 855) i once had a dream when i was told to look after some kittens but they were made of chocolate and i ate them :( 15:31:34 There are programs that do that 15:31:36 (Added by elliott in /msg) 15:31:42 ahhh 15:31:43 wow 15:31:52 are some of them great? 15:32:01 I dunno, never used them 15:32:10 yes its like blasphemy 15:33:04 No, they're just a bitch to run on Linux. 15:33:40 itidus21, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63484.0/ 15:34:18 for the record, i am not going to do any of these things.. but i do enjoy topics i can understand :-D 15:34:56 One does not simply understan-- sorry no saying that's cutting too close to the pikhq line. 15:35:28 i dont understand DF proper.. but i do understand that it can be rendered :D 15:35:54 Hey, λnfx.n(λgh.h(gf))(λu.x)(λu.u) 15:36:03 noooooo 15:36:52 λg.(λx.g(xx))(λx.g(xx)) 15:39:07 Sorry 15:40:09 i think there is simply no trivial way to describe what LC does illustratively 15:40:50 like it wouldn't be a good basis for a cartoon, or would it? 15:41:19 http://code.google.com/p/visual-lambda/ 15:41:30 http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ 15:42:25 New from the makers of Dragon Ball, Lamuda Karukurusu 15:42:41 :o 15:42:49 is it better than blue dragon probably? :D 15:43:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:44:48 kmc: i think that basically.. they need to go the whole hog.. and make a 30 minute narrative based cartoon with a lambda calculus motif 15:48:15 "Bravo! You have just written Forth in Brainfuck written in Forth." 15:48:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:48:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 15:48:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:48:45 Boy I love how Freenode's host masking is basically useless. 15:49:38 Hm? 15:49:57 i hear you can set your client to authenticate to nickserv as you connect 15:50:24 Phantom_Hoover: 15:50:25 * Phantom_Hoover (~Phantom@cpc15-sgyl29-2-0-cust133.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #esoteric 15:50:25 * Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host) 15:50:25 * Phantom_Hoover (~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric 15:50:32 Yeahno. 15:50:52 That's just me setting the wrong fields in XChat, as kmc says. 15:51:21 Hmm, I'm not sure that /is/ the problem. 15:51:54 The problem is that even if you set up the nickserv password in the client, there's no established handshake, so it can't wait for the response. 15:52:21 So if you have autojoin, there's a very high chance that you will join before NickServ has authenticated you, unless NickServ is atomic w.r.t. the rest of the network, which it typically is not. 16:02:23 Gregor: i am a big fan of akira toriyama and it is implied you are to some degree 16:02:45 That is one stretch of an implication, since I have no clue what/who you're talking about. 16:03:05 Presumably someone (?) related to the Dragon Ball series. 16:03:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:03:51 Gregor: as was mentioned, if you supply your nickserv password as the PASSWORD, then the cloak is applied immediately 16:04:23 Ahh, I didn't know Freenode accepted the nickserv password as the network password. 16:04:23 coppro: I don't think so; I supply mine as the password, and it doesn't happen immediately enough 16:04:25 Makes sense I suppose. 16:04:31 and I also /msg nickserv afterwards just to make sure 16:04:41 [Notice] -NickServ- You are already logged in as ais523. 16:05:06 ais523: that sounds wrong; it is supposed to supply the cloak before you are able to join any channels 16:05:21 Gregor: Also, there is an established handshake 16:05:37 mode +i 16:05:44 coppro: Then just don't join any channel before the NickServ message comes on. The amount of time it takes varies 16:06:50 -!- zzo38 has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: I die in the end | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 16:06:55 If that thingy ever happens to me, tell me 16:07:16 Gregor: ahhh cool i see 16:07:23 ok ok.. false implication 16:07:42 Gregor: Also, there is an established handshake // I mean established across all networks. 16:08:26 You can login to NickServ using the PASS command, but sometimes there may be a delay before NickServ does anything about it (I am unsure why). 16:12:16 Presumably it just passes it into the whole *Serv substrate, which is not atomic w.r.t. the rest of the network. 16:12:28 (It's essentially an agent, not a server component) 16:18:14 akira toriyama was behind the art and story of dragonball, but of course they always have uncredited assistants. he also did art for many video games: dragon quest, chrono trigger, tobal, blue dragon 16:24:17 itidus21: But it seem three of them are "dragon" 16:24:45 lol 16:25:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:26:19 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:26:24 i think dragonball is by far his greatest work 16:27:10 -!- nortti has joined. 16:27:24 -!- rszeno has joined. 16:30:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:30:40 -!- Lumpio_ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 16:30:51 * kmc reads 20IOCCC entries 16:30:56 nice work Gregor :) 16:33:11 ^^ 16:33:21 <-- only winner with indented code, too 8-D 16:34:25 its the sort of thing i wish i could make myself.. i can't figure it out for the life of me how someone can just make a dragon ball story happen.. 16:39:46 Indeed. 16:40:03 Dragonball is among the greatest of human endeavours. 16:40:11 Hey monqy never made a self-portrait of me 16:40:13 bastard 16:40:19 itidus21, can you do it 16:45:32 the methodology i have been trying is to fight convention, as if modern authors and artists had been swept out to sea by a riptide of convention 16:45:43 but i haven't been trying very hard 16:51:15 You realise that having "fighting convention" as your entire creative vision inevitably just ends up with a piece of crap. 16:52:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:52:48 i basically think that whatever kind of video games i make will be crappy in the same way as scott mccloud's zot comics are inherently quite crappy 16:54:13 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:54:24 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:54:53 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:56:02 crappy can be interpreted as, probably noone wants to own the license 16:57:26 its very true that i just can't ignore the fact that he wrote a book about comics more popular than any actual comic he made 17:05:30 but he takes it in good jest http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/misc/notneil.jpg 17:07:36 -!- calamari has joined. 17:14:50 -!- augur has joined. 17:20:04 -!- rszeno has left. 17:29:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: :1: Program exit by user). 17:34:28 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:37:53 -!- cheater__ has joined. 17:42:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:42:34 Hello 17:42:53 Is it just me, or does the internet seem quite left-wing? 17:43:39 probably it's just you 17:43:56 by which i mean, the internet makes it easy to only interact with people who agree with you politically 17:44:04 Hmm 17:44:20 That is a fair point 17:44:58 and indeed makes it easy to only interact with people who believe the same factually incorrect things as you 17:45:01 which is troubling 17:45:53 Wow, I've never thought of it like that 17:46:34 kmc: chorizo and mushroom spaghetti 17:47:19 """ 17:47:19 and indeed makes it easy to only interact with people who believe the same factually incorrect things as you 17:47:19 which is troubling 17:47:19 Wow, I've never thought of it like that""" <<< how meta-recursive 17:48:16 http://www.abovetopsecret.com/ 17:49:50 Is it just me, or does the internet seem quite left-wing? // I'mma go read Conservapedia kthx 17:50:07 dude kmc 17:50:33 that website makes no sense 17:50:56 cheater__: that's because of the government UFO filtering chip installed in your prefrontal cortex by FEMA 17:51:33 In 1884, meridian time personnel met in Washington to change Earth time. First words said was that only 1 day could be used on Earth to not change the 1 day bible. So they applied the 1 day and ignored the other 3 days. 17:53:54 The ONEist educated with their flawed 1 eye perspective (opposite eyes overlay) Cyclops mentality, inflicts static non pulsating logos as a fictitious queer same sex transformation. 17:53:59 You tell 'em, Gene Ray! X-D 17:59:22 educated stupid by your cocksucker god 18:00:51 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:01:30 It's amazing how he manages to seamlessly merge his hatred for religion, science, government, homosexuality and academia. 18:03:37 i'm really waiting for the movie 18:03:56 do you know rex curry, Gregor? 18:04:01 i think those two should team up 18:04:34 ??? 18:04:38 http://rexcurry.net/pledge3.html 18:05:11 ... ... sfw? 18:07:54 http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/containmentpolicy.htm 18:12:57 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:24:40 Gregor: not necessarily 18:27:49 kmc: amazing 18:35:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:40:52 "whoa shit, the number 1 is overloaded with symbolism" 18:41:05 (disclaimer: not an actual quotation) 18:43:07 sooner or later technology will be imposed upon our bodies 18:43:14 maybe not in our lifetime 18:43:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:43:55 I want a brain gateway to my irssi 18:44:13 you think you want that.. but.. its not good idea... 18:45:06 why not? 18:45:16 I do not want. 18:46:35 any advantages you can derive from direct brain interfaces will become disadvantages once the establishment is geared up 18:47:32 Gregor: how does your IOCCC work? 18:47:36 utopia is not found that way 18:48:09 in my vision, i was on the veranda of a vast estate, a palazzo of some fantastic proportion 18:48:27 itidus21: haha 18:48:32 itidus21: you sound like rex curry. 18:48:41 totally 18:49:08 yibbada yibbada.. thank your mother for the rabbits 18:49:59 ~ rex hunt 18:49:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:50:50 Did you know about the various online quiz systems? I try to write compare including the my own program (Internet Quiz Engine). 18:51:06 I also included the text from Wikipedia 18:52:35 The world needs more good quizzes like some given exceedingly deficient thing needs a massive supplement!! 18:53:43 itidus21: Make up a quiz file on Internet Quiz Engine. 18:55:56 the trouble with multiple option dialogue trees is that each node of the tree feels like it's written as follows 18:56:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:56:18 1) define several branches in terms of some concrete decision or alignment 18:56:43 2) write in text inspired by the decision or the alignment 18:56:44 Well, in this case it is simply ordered, it is not a tree. But it does support skipping questions based on the answers to previous questions. 18:56:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:56:52 3) expect people not to notice :D 18:57:22 Internet Quiz Engine supports up to 26 counters you can keep track of, and when displaying the results you can compare them with each other and with constants. 18:57:24 i propose that a better system would be to make the dialogue more random in nature 18:57:34 ^dialog 18:57:54 . o O (wtf is a dialog anyway.. sounds like webster's handywork) 19:05:37 the explanation is as good as inconclusive 19:05:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:05:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:05:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:09:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:28:35 -!- nortti has joined. 19:29:04 Gregor: how does your IOCCC work? // quite well, thank you. 19:29:20 (Dig into it a bit, I'll answer /specific/ questions ;) ) 19:35:01 Gregor: I still haven't quite figured it out 19:37:42 IOCCC entries are evil 19:37:46 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:37:50 *winners 19:38:09 I can deal with that *shrugs* 19:40:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:45:34 Gregor: I'm lazy, please tell me everything about how it works 19:45:49 -!- dessos has joined. 19:46:16 `welcome dessos 19:46:19 dessos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:46:46 olsner: It draws magical machine code from the aether, and then JITs it into the spirit of children all over the world. 19:47:41 ah, the olde powered by a forsaken child trope 19:48:04 or possibly the reverse 19:50:05 to burn Linux logs, you need a degree in physics and chemistry unless you use logbuntu (then reading chemistry books without understanding them is enough) (you'll also burn down your house) 19:54:32 sooner or later technology will be imposed upon our bodies << ahahahahahaha 19:54:46 what do you think you eat, drink, get administered 19:54:53 aspirin isn't technology? 19:55:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:56:13 what about aspartame 19:56:18 or asparagus 20:01:02 aspiring technologists with aspergers 20:03:19 -!- augur has joined. 20:07:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:08:06 Hello! 20:08:25 There should be a Murderous Maths: Slimy Sets and Crazy Categories 20:08:33 oooh maths 20:09:22 praised be the inaccessible cardinal 20:09:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:10:54 hey wouldn't it be funny if there was this esoteric version of math where ordinals were these seriously fucked up things that make you cry with a smile on your face every time you prove stuff about them 20:11:21 you mean math? 20:11:31 This is where I regret leaning what ordinal means via linguistics rather than mathematics 20:11:39 by maths, or by esoteric version of math? 20:11:50 both 20:11:55 then yes. 20:12:17 (i said maths because i prefer to use the term most recently used) 20:12:44 no i meant 20:12:46 AND THEN RANDOMLY SWITCH TWO LINES LATER 20:13:02 maths are an eigenvector of esoteric 20:13:10 a unitary one at that. 20:13:20 yeah i couldn't use that ridiculous term twice in a row 20:13:56 do you mean no one here can do math? 20:14:07 (i know what you mean) 20:14:12 so polskolo 20:14:15 polkolo 20:14:37 yeah 20:14:42 no i mean that usual math is esoteric as it gets 20:14:49 yeah i got that 20:14:58 what sort of music do you listen to 20:15:04 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 20:15:05 But math is short for mathematics! 20:15:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmfzWpp0hMc 20:15:15 only if you're retarded 20:15:22 oklopol: why not just tell me 20:15:28 oh, well 20:15:39 -!- augur has joined. 20:15:42 do you want like a list or what 20:15:50 anything complicated that i find structure in 20:15:51 yes 20:16:02 have you ever heard of biosphere 20:16:13 Like robotics and hydraulics, but mathsier! 20:16:17 faceless, born of osiris, animals as leaders, after the burial etc 20:16:30 biosphere doesn't ring a bell 20:16:37 that sounds like metal music 20:16:42 is it metal music 20:16:54 can you link something of theirs 20:17:05 it's ambient 20:17:12 electronic music 20:17:18 i suggest the album "substrata" 20:17:31 can you suggest a song, ambient isn't really my style 20:17:56 not really the whole cd needs to be heard to have the effect 20:17:57 if i like something with less than 10 notes a second, it's an anomaly 20:18:15 it's not that slow 20:18:40 actually no 20:18:43 it's very slow 20:18:47 my mental maths failed 20:19:01 cuz i hadn't slept for 40 hours 20:19:09 :-) 20:19:14 why is that 20:20:57 also 10 notes per second is not _really_ a necessary condition. but fast music is usually more interesting. 20:21:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-mJPxUt8RE name is fitting, this is hyperboring. 20:23:46 well i guess (04)^\infty is as good a sequence as any. 20:26:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: BED). 20:28:22 so how long is this substrata 20:30:44 -!- dessos has left. 20:36:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:45:54 did you know Unicode has characters to use a character cell as a 4-pixel block? 20:45:54 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:45:57 ▘▝▀▖▌▞▛▗▚▐▜▄▙▟█ 20:45:57 @messages 20:45:57 cheater__ said 48m 59s ago: sup aspy 20:51:04 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:03:07 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:07:08 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:15:41 -!- rszeno has joined. 21:25:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 21:55:23 -!- rszeno has left. 21:56:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:01:28 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:17:09 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:24:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:40:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:47:20 Phantom_Hoover, I have Portal 2 for what it's worth 22:47:31 Have you played coop? 22:47:41 Yes 22:47:55 Why, are you trying to find someone who hasn't? 22:48:04 Yes. 22:48:22 elliott a) hasn't, b) wants to but c) can't be arsed to actually get Portal 2. 22:56:18 Can a current Agoran tell me what the deal is with the taunt the police mechanic? 22:56:57 -!- Gregor has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: I use the boost to get through | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 23:05:34 -!- dessos has joined. 23:05:52 `welcome dessos 23:05:55 dessos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:24:15 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:28:47 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:31:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:32:46 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:40:44 In Astrolog, when I try to do transit calculation for house cusps it doesn't work. So I tried using flipped sign/houses but that causes the program to crash when flipped sign/houses are selected. 23:47:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:48:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2012-05-15: 00:07:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:20:34 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:23:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:45:45 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 00:45:58 -!- SimonRC has joined. 00:52:46 -!- wareya has left. 01:00:30 http://i.imgur.com/Iof5s.jpg 01:01:31 Please tell me that's real Finnish. 01:01:45 It is indeed. 01:14:54 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:21:18 OK, I am back now 01:27:22 zzo38, wb' 01:39:38 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:44:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:08:25 -!- wsaadus has joined. 02:13:22 I have made a table to review four online quiz systems: Internet Quiz Engine, Quizilla, OkCupid, and FunTrivia. Some information I got from Wikipedia, some by trying, and the first one is my own program. If you have information about these, or suggest for additional systems to compare, tell me please. 02:14:08 -!- wsaadus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:14:27 Do you know the maximum number of questions and maximum choices per question and maximum number of results for Quizilla? Do you know what programming language Quizilla and FunTrivia are written in? 02:15:10 zzo38: what are your requirements for "quiz system"? does something like surveymonkey count? 02:16:18 quintopia: No. (Although I may make a way to conduct polls using IRC, in future.) (Also, if you have any feature suggestion of Internet Quiz Engine, tell me that too.) 02:16:30 (Or, if you have any comparison rows to suggest in the table.) 02:16:59 zzo38: define "quiz system" 02:17:35 quintopia: It is difficult. I used Wikipedia's article about "Online quiz" for now 02:18:18 i didnt even know okc was still supporting their quiz system 02:18:25 (There is a German service there, but I do not know well reading German, so I will omit that one unless someone can provide me all the information for each row in the table) 02:20:23 quintopia: As far as I can tell, they are, and no account is required to run the quiz editor on OkCupid, either. And it appears to have some similarities to Internet Quiz Engine. 02:21:15 gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt 02:22:34 If any information is incorrect or missing, and you know the correct entry, please notify me. 02:59:20 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:07:22 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:09:14 -!- madbr has joined. 04:33:21 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:33:25 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 04:33:25 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:41:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:54:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:54:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:15:28 -!- atran has joined. 05:15:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:16:40 -!- atran has left. 05:17:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:17:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:17:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:17:29 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:18:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:18:22 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:18:24 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 05:18:24 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:43:44 -!- nortti has joined. 06:02:38 * pikhq_ mutters 06:02:50 Why would you stick upscaled video on a Bluray? 06:03:18 "Yeah, uh, it was originally 480i, but... Fuck you, we're giving you 1080p with no gain in quality." 06:25:06 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:42:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:44:14 pikhq_: because the bluray sells for more money? 06:45:21 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 06:45:46 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 06:49:23 No reason you couldn't stick better-compressed 480i or 480p video on there though. 06:50:07 maybe if you do that you can't stick that HD 1080p logo on the back of it 06:59:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:03:21 You can't stick in 480p video, it's not legal. 07:03:50 The primary video stream must be one of six "HD" formats, or one of two (480i at NTSC rates, 576i at PAL) "SD" ones. 07:03:52 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:04:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 07:05:08 (C.f. http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM_Audio_Visual_Application_Format_Specifications-18780.pdf pages 14-15, "Primary video stream".) 07:06:04 Almost all 480p video is 480p24... And one of the weirder things about MPEG-2 container formats is it's possible to mux 480p24 so that it plays back as a 480i30 stream, which *ought* to be legal on Blu-ray... 07:06:18 (it is on DVDs, and is *extensively* used) 07:06:58 "720x480x59.94-i" is the 480i format, if that's what you mean, yes. 07:07:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:07:15 Blah, yeah, that. 07:07:53 ... Wait, it's 720x480? The single most ridiculous choice of resolutions? 07:08:21 That's what the pdf above says. 07:08:35 Kay, so the people who did Blu-ray were clueless. 07:08:57 It also says that "real" 480p24 (and 480p23.976) is allowed in the secondary video stream. 07:09:18 (For the picture-in-picture feature.) 07:10:24 720x480 includes the nominal analogue blanking, making it the single least convenient digital video resolution to deal with. 07:10:58 And so nearly everything handles it wrong, instead just playing it as straight 4:3 or 16:9. 07:11:17 haha 07:12:12 Instead of either playing it at the appropriate pixel aspect ratio, or imitating analog TV behavior by displaying the active picture area as 4:3 or 16:9. 07:16:48 -!- nooga has joined. 07:18:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:27:28 Well, I mean, one assumes they're following the DVD-Video spec there; according to secondary sources (the official isn't anywhere, of course) it allows (for NTSC) 720x480 and 704x480, but actual "anamorphic" 16:9 only when the "full-D1" (720x480) resolution is used. 07:29:12 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:29:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:31:55 *Nice* violation of Rec. 601 there. 07:42:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:42:58 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:43:14 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 07:56:43 -!- Lymee has joined. 07:56:53 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:56:57 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Madoka-Kaname. 08:00:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:01:06 Hello 08:19:20 I played very short Dungeons&Dragons today 08:19:33 Were you all dwarves and halflings? 08:19:35 (hur hur) 08:21:23 But go on 08:21:24 Unless you are going on and I've lost connection, which is a distinct possibility 08:21:24 @ping 08:21:24 Yep, I've lost connection 08:21:24 pong 08:21:25 Bye! 08:21:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:22:48 Taneb: No. It is continuation of the same game as before, just a session of a short duration. 08:41:57 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:43:44 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:50:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:53:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:55:00 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:55:00 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 08:55:00 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:59:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:01:23 o.O new DF 09:01:29 What will be the new nickname? 09:01:34 DF2012 is taken 09:06:32 what 09:06:32 Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 09:06:41 it'll still be df2012 09:06:55 toady's released like 4 non-save-compatible updates thus far 09:09:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:09:46 Hello 09:10:36 Does this mean I'll have to start my fortress AGAIN!? 09:26:08 don't pretend it hasn't been ransacked yet 09:26:42 Phantom_Hoover, is this one non-save-compatible still? 09:28:37 Yes. 09:28:50 It's half the reason I'm get to properly get back into DF. 09:29:11 It's... really not a game for backwards compatibility. 09:29:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Ha! I will put your leg in the sand! And then your face will be in the dirt!). 09:29:40 Phantom_Hoover, I think the notes say that it is save-compatible? 09:30:10 Oh? Good. 09:30:45 omg minecarts look so fun 09:30:59 particularly since they look so weaponisable 09:31:23 To my knowledge, Minecraft only has 5 non-save-compatible families 09:31:40 The first 4 are presumably all really old? 09:31:51 No, the last 3 are on different platforms 09:31:56 There's classic and indev 09:32:07 Oh, mobile and 360. 09:32:16 And then infdev/alpha/beta/"full" release 09:32:22 And mobile and 360 09:32:33 I believe iOS and Android versions are co-compatible 09:44:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:46:03 Taneb, really? 09:46:11 I thought on the PC, there have been 4 formats so far. 09:46:27 Yeah, but they included converters 09:46:28 Classic, Beta, first file-system like format, Anvil 09:46:41 And there's been more than that 09:46:51 IIRC, there was one before NBT too 09:47:32 Classic and Indev had their own formats 09:48:24 There's Alpha format, Region format, then Anvil format 10:07:29 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:10:34 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:18:36 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft. 10:19:53 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:23:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 10:26:30 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has changed nick to Taneb. 10:28:02 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 10:28:14 http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Fuel 10:28:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:28:28 WE GET THE POINT, THEY'RE IDENTICAL FOR ALL IN-GAME PURPOSES 10:30:11 me too 10:30:13 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 10:31:01 PatashuXantheres, you're getting longer 10:31:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:33:32 On another note, Homestuck Anthem still sounds like a ping-pong match to me 10:42:49 Taneb: Homestuck Anthem and a ping-pong match are identical for all in-game purposes. 11:01:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:01:04 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 11:01:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:04:32 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:17:39 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:21:13 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:41:32 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:41:32 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 11:41:32 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:45:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:46:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:48:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:53:12 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:53:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 11:53:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:57:06 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:18:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:38:00 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 12:38:00 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 12:38:00 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 12:42:04 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:43:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:43:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:43:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:47:08 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:58:10 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 12:58:22 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 12:58:22 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 13:02:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:13:13 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:13:25 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 13:13:25 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:33:31 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:33:47 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:35:48 kmc: 'sup bro 13:36:39 and bro is of course short for brogrammer 13:40:12 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:42:39 -!- derdon has joined. 13:53:25 -!- Dr_Frankenstein has joined. 13:53:39 -!- Dr_Frankenstein has left. 14:09:54 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1989-05-28/ 14:10:56 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:18:48 the truth about the world is that crime does pay 14:21:35 so if you leave now then who's gonna play? 14:22:14 [or some similar post] 14:22:48 cos i'd like to think the world was a better place 14:23:01 i'd like to leave the world as a better place 14:23:35 ^so if you walk away, then who's gonna stay? 14:24:28 [or some similar post] 14:26:32 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:36:01 itidus21 understands 14:37:10 but i acknowledge that it doesn't mean i agree.. nor that i get the meaning of it 14:37:37 not that i don't want to agree or anything 14:47:29 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 14:47:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:51:25 https://images.4chan.org/mu/src/1336752176872.png :> 14:51:46 i still had that open in my browser 14:52:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:53:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:00:38 itidus21: 404 15:00:52 ok 15:01:36 it was that nef quintero thing 15:05:07 oh yeah, gotta love that nef quintero thing 15:05:41 (i.e. no idea what you mean) 15:10:44 nef quintero sounds vaguely familiar 15:11:10 Sounds a bit like something Intel might do 15:14:46 haha yes 15:14:50 although: http://www.facebooktroll.com/2011/06/nef-quintero-is-going-to-hack-into-your-computers-and-beat-you-up/ 15:14:52 heh 15:15:02 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 15:30:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:30:49 i'm starting to see things from nef's point of view though 15:31:18 itidus21, read Timecube, tell me how it goes 15:32:00 i have heard of timecube.. i don't want to mess my head up any further honestly 15:32:55 i ended up on one such page.. it was bad enough 15:33:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:36:57 http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/05/15/congratulations-on-the-divorce-norway/ 15:41:29 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:41:57 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:42:09 -!- ion has joined. 15:42:45 i guess nef is what i would be if i was more aggressive, rude and risk-taking sort of person 15:43:52 And 20 years younger 15:44:05 :P 15:45:42 gradually i am coming to terms with the core ultimatums, tradeoffs, and decisions of life 16:07:05 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 16:07:29 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 16:24:32 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:24:50 How to compare yesterday's temperature with today? 16:26:08 how is temperature compard? 16:27:03 I'd say about the same? 16:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:28:57 Taneb: best optimization ever. 16:30:40 I mean in the city I am at 16:30:57 Which city'd that be? 16:31:02 Actually, I mean in Vancouver, BC, which is near where I am at 16:31:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:32:12 I'd say probably cooler, given the data I've found in 30 secs of looking 16:48:51 what 16:49:00 ubuntu 12.04 installer displays @ubuntu tweets. 16:49:05 the fuck. 16:53:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:53:28 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:09:58 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:23:21 "There exist NP-complete problems for which the best known running times have the form O(2^(n^c)) for c < 1, and if the best possible running time for 3-SAT were of this form..." 17:23:51 Why does this say "if"? doesn't a subexponential time algorithm for any NP-complete problem imply a subexponential time algorithm for 3-SAT? 17:24:45 (namely by running the reduction of 3-SAT to that other problem, which involves solving that other problem a polynomial number of times) 17:25:00 cheater_: wow 17:28:45 you know what they should do 17:28:50 dump you onto #ubuntu 17:28:51 and have you chat 17:28:56 it'd be like unreal tournament 17:29:02 have you ever played unreal tournament, kmc? 17:29:33 it has a multiplayer server browser 17:29:58 and it automatically connected to #utgames on some irc server 17:30:21 i used to know the admin of that thing 17:30:27 at some point he got tired of tens of thousands of clients constantly connecting and disconnecting 17:30:41 and blocked the unreal tournament irc client from connecting at all 17:30:45 lolz abound 17:35:03 so kmc, while this yii guy is still trying to figure out my cv (he's sending me questions about it) i got contacted by some guy today for some other php job 17:35:29 apparently i need to know OOP PHP5. 17:36:14 and i need to know how to write APIs. 17:36:31 no sorry 17:36:37 "develop" APIs 17:37:24 and it's a good to have if i can build high availability clusters 17:41:11 kmc: come to europe and write clusters with me 17:41:18 we'll implement NFS over HTTPS 17:41:20 where in europe 17:41:29 i thought you kept up with my migrations 17:41:42 it's local to where i live 17:41:50 because fuck moving for a job right now 17:42:54 actually we could implement NFS over Token Ring over Frame Relay over RS-485 over UDP over HTTP 17:43:14 yes 17:43:25 RS-485 for the win 17:48:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:51:14 kmc if i have an URL which applies to many reddits then can i link it to all of them 17:51:22 or something 17:51:28 not sure if my wording is correct 17:51:37 i'm not up to it when it comes to new things 17:51:42 i don't know a way other than submitting indivdually to each 17:52:08 yea but is this 1. possible 2. allowed 17:52:15 and also 3. dongs 17:52:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:52:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:54:37 i've done it many times and haven't been yelled at 17:54:40 but i kind of hate reddit 17:54:47 but i still submit there because i want my things to be seen 17:57:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:57:40 haha 17:57:42 same here. 17:57:51 actually there's no "kind of" 17:57:52 reddit is the scum of the earth 17:57:53 kind of like irc 17:58:00 heh 17:58:15 so kmc 17:58:16 move here 17:58:18 we have Bier 17:58:21 and Oktoberfest 17:58:25 and Grossbusige Frauen 17:58:49 or Stahlharte Jungs if you prefer that sort of thing 17:58:50 heh 17:58:55 i learned a new word today 17:58:58 thanks cheater_ 17:59:07 was it 17:59:13 Zygohistopreproconfluence 17:59:21 no it was Grossbusige 17:59:22 that's two words 17:59:28 Stop cheating 17:59:30 so what was your word 17:59:32 oh 17:59:32 ok 17:59:36 cheater_: we have bier in Belgium too! 17:59:41 actually it uses scharfes-s 17:59:48 AnotherTest: but not Bier 17:59:59 Like Großbusige? 18:00:04 yes, like that. 18:00:19 Bier und großbusige Frauen und Schnellzüge 18:00:25 Well the dutch word is 'bier'(without the capital) 18:00:33 Heiße Großbusige Fickstuten 18:01:00 Ich spreiche leider nicht gut Deutsch. 18:01:02 AnotherTest: exactly, that means the edit distance IS NOT ZERO 18:01:07 what's Fickstuten 18:01:20 Aber Ich studiere Deutsch. 18:01:21 it's a composite word 18:01:48 faustfick 18:01:49 Stute is a female equine 18:02:15 kmc: you should capitalize that, otherwise you're not allowed to perform the action 18:04:02 Hm. German is a nice language, at least I think. 18:04:09 Ich haben ein nicht knowledge of the German language 18:04:21 hahaha 18:04:24 Taneb: wins 18:04:31 @trollcoins +100 Taneb 18:04:31 Unknown command, try @list 18:05:31 wow lambdabot you are so uncool 18:05:42 everyone knows trollcoins are the new, free currency 18:05:50 the free currency that anyone can edit 18:06:55 hahahah 18:07:07 @trollcoins +100 kmc 18:07:07 Unknown command, try @list 18:07:15 damnit lambdabot why are you so retarded 18:07:28 why won't you ever learn when we're talking to you 18:07:47 so kmc, i've been thinking about this whole issue of a child learning for years how to do the most basic things 18:07:55 and the AIs not having that much time to themselves 18:08:37 and i think that's kind of bullshit, because people should be able to play back courses to the AI in accelerated time 18:08:42 kind of like a unit test 18:08:51 or a selenium test 18:09:13 brr, my blood chills when i think of an AI raised with a selenium test suite 18:09:47 but wouldn't that be absolutely amazing 18:10:12 to be able to create an intelligence, and finely tune every aspect of its psyche by being able to rewrite every moment in its upbringing 18:10:36 you could have it not only trained by the most amazing people in the world, but also have them go back and fix possible issues 18:11:02 it'd be like the road to perfecting the human psyche 18:11:12 there's a movie in there somewhere 18:11:16 also a joke, but i got nothin' 18:11:55 yes 18:12:04 brb, going to feed birds in the park 18:13:02 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:13:37 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:14:56 omg, kmc you're such a homeless person 18:15:24 i bet "brb" just means "wait while i close the laptop lid and put it in my shopping cart" 18:18:18 He seems to be taking a long while to close the laptop lid 18:19:56 -!- nortti has joined. 18:20:02 don't be fooled, he's on a bouncer 18:20:34 cheater_: the problem is mainly that current (chat) Ai works with detection of patterns but can't place something in a context 18:20:50 so if 2 patterns collide things fuck up 18:20:57 i was talking about ai in general 18:21:05 like, you know, hard intelligence 18:21:29 Computers are probably just not big enough then 18:21:55 and inefficient 18:21:57 awesome! My calcilator broke and ee have math exam (trigonomeyric fictions) tomorrow 18:22:00 I reckon computers are big enough, just nobody's figured out the trick yet 18:22:07 well compared to the human brain of course 18:22:35 nortti, cos 0 = 1; sin 0 = 0 18:22:41 That's all you need to know 18:22:41 Maybe; maybe not. 18:22:49 Taneb: they need a supercomputer to simulate the human brain for less than a second(I read that somewhere) 18:23:32 nortti: just imagine a circle in your mind 18:23:52 They don't need to simulate the human brain to replicate intelligence 18:23:54 Taneb: umh. maybe I just try to use,my slide rule 18:23:59 we couldn't even use a calculate 18:24:03 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 18:24:03 Find a table of trigonometry. Perhaps you can print it out from your computer, if it is permitted 18:24:05 Slide rules have trig? 18:24:12 I thought they did logs 18:24:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:24:22 Man, the past is an amazing place 18:24:29 Taneb: well mine has sin 18:24:32 Taneb: true, but it means that intelligence is really complicated 18:24:37 Taneb: My slide rule has trig, logs, and more. Different slide rules have different functions, some are fancy and have many, while some have only multiplication 18:24:39 -!- monqy has joined. 18:24:59 I have a slide rule too 18:25:01 Wow! 18:25:22 I want a slide rule... 18:25:28 i have one in the drawer over there 18:25:35 Can I have it? 18:25:41 i want a curta, but they are ungettable without thousands of dollars 18:25:57 zzo38: I don't have printer. If I write something I use my electronic typewriter 18:26:43 you have a typewriter? are you from the past? 18:26:43 zzo38: do you have a curta 18:26:51 quintopia: try asking your relatives. That's where I got minr 18:27:04 (not curta thoug) 18:27:08 nortti: my relatives are not sciencey 18:27:10 nortti: OK, then you have to type it by hand, even if calculated by computer 18:27:25 quintopia: I do not know what that mean 18:27:37 zzo38: google it 18:28:06 OK, perhaps later I will look it on Google or Wikipedia 18:28:14 olsner: I have time travelled from year 1997 to chat in this channel 18:28:14 use DuckDuckGo 18:28:17 not google 18:28:28 I ordinarily prefer Wikipedia 18:28:33 nortti: cool! welcome to our century, traveller 18:28:55 nortti: Can I barrow your time machine?(assuming that's how you got here) 18:29:01 *borrow 18:29:38 AnotherTest: I don't have time machine. it was xkcd reference 18:29:49 :( 18:29:56 Computers are probably just not big enough then < yeah but improving computer 18:30:03 Computers are probably just not big enough then < yeah but improving computer performance is a solved problem 18:30:29 cheater_: until Moore's law ends 18:30:38 nortti's time machine: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003124 18:30:50 IT NEVER ENDS 18:30:59 people say it is, although I'm not convinced 18:31:06 *will end 18:33:33 i have travelled from the year 1986 to tell you this: you are really young, nortti 18:33:57 yes I am 18:33:58 now, or in 1986? 18:34:15 How old am I? 18:34:20 1997? that's as old as my brother! 18:34:56 cheater_: NEVER might be an overstatement; not in the near future? 18:36:24 NEVER ENDS 18:42:29 well I guess you can keep on making something smaller forever 18:42:48 until it's infinite small 18:43:26 infinite^(-1) 18:45:01 infinite^oo 18:47:11 > 1/0 18:47:12 Infinity 18:47:22 > (1/0)^(-1) 18:47:22 *Exception: Negative exponent 18:47:29 > (1/0)^^(-1) 18:47:30 0.0 18:49:15 > sqrt (1/0) 18:49:16 Infinity 18:50:03 sqrt(1/0)=(1/0)^(-1) 18:51:54 no wait. It is not 18:53:02 (1/0)^(-1)=1/(1/0) 18:53:13 > 1/(1/0) 18:53:14 0.0 18:53:41 >sqrt(-1) 18:53:42 -!- calamari has joined. 18:53:47 -!- calamari has left. 18:53:54 > sqrt(-1) 18:53:55 NaN 18:54:03 no complex? 18:54:33 > 0/0 18:54:34 NaN 18:54:48 > 0%0 18:54:49 *Exception: Ratio.%: zero denominator 19:02:53 > sqrt (-1) :: Complex 19:02:54 Expecting an ordinary type, but found a type of kind * -> * 19:02:59 > sqrt (-1) :: Complex Double 19:03:00 (-0.0) :+ 1.0 19:03:05 :) 19:03:21 > + 1 2 3 4 19:03:22 : parse error on input `+' 19:03:27 Why doesn't that work? 19:03:38 I thought operators were prefix in lambda expressions 19:03:38 Because + is infix 19:03:48 This is Haskell, not Lambda 19:03:51 ah 19:03:57 that explains 19:04:08 > (+) 1 2 + (+) 3 4 19:04:09 10 19:04:32 > a = 5; a^2 19:04:32 : parse error on input `=' 19:04:36 hm 19:04:40 > let a = 5 in a ^ 2 19:04:41 25 19:04:46 @where lyah 19:04:46 http://www.learnyouahaskell.com/ 19:04:49 -!- nooga has joined. 19:04:53 I don't know haskell, unfortunately 19:04:55 Read that if you want to learn Haskel 19:04:56 l 19:05:09 I will I have have some time 19:05:10 do most people who learn haskell already know LC? :D 19:05:26 itidus21, I'd presume not 19:06:35 @where rwh 19:06:35 http://www.realworldhaskell.org/blog/ http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/ 19:06:43 AnotherTest, that's another alternative 19:07:23 > let a = 0 in a/a 19:07:23 NaN 19:07:26 :) 19:07:33 > join (/) 0 19:07:33 NaN 19:07:45 (you don't need to know why that works until later) 19:07:56 judging by the way my face grinched at the idea .. i won't ask that question again 19:09:42 `pastelog itidus 19:09:58 `quote commitee 19:10:02 No output. 19:10:07 `quote comittee 19:10:13 597) I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee 19:10:19 2011-07-16.txt:00:00:57: -!- itidus20 has joined #esoteric. \ 2011-07-16.txt:03:40:55: zzo, sort of like how stage hypnosis is supposed to work eh. \ 2011-07-16.txt:03:42:10: i've seen an [obviously staged] video of a guy who hypnotized a woman to think he was invisible and then he would tickle her with a feather and make her look up with confusion \ 2011-07-16.txt:03:42:20: on youtube 19:10:40 eep 19:13:12 `pastelog itidus 19:13:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25272 19:13:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:14:55 oh gods.. i'm really the worst. 19:16:06 itidus21, you're great. 19:16:12 We all love you for being you. 19:17:23 Isn't that right, ais523? 19:17:51 -!- myndzi has joined. 19:17:51 i like me.. its not a cause for guilt or sympathy.. but.. comparing myself to other wild ones who come here 19:18:26 i am really on my own trip.. 19:18:49 Your rambles really cheer me up 19:19:21 kmc: are you still homeless 19:19:27 or are you back 19:20:24 the reason i looked up my logs is to find a particular ramble.. and i wanted to see if something i just did was unconcious plagiarism :D 19:22:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:24:32 Taneb: it's better for someone to be themself than someone else 19:24:33 usually 19:25:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 19:37:41 itidus20: i think it's better to prevent reaching the middle altogether 19:37:47 i have to finally agree 19:38:58 Taneb: imagine a square where the sides are glued to each other, but not by actually bending the square, instead by making the sides be teleportation portals... 19:39:13 he has a way with words.. 19:40:31 But topologically I think it would be the same thing either way 19:40:57 yes.. what i ended up doing was very simple.. diabolically simple even 19:41:19 -!- Aardwolf has joined. 19:43:53 http://oi50.tinypic.com/xxd89.jpg 19:44:30 the circle is a HUD map.. which basically was the missing piece i needed combined with what oklo said that middle of the thing shouldn't be accessible 19:46:01 since the HUD map could potentially go a long way to create the illusion that you are walking around a round planet 19:49:11 bye 19:49:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:51:35 the quality of mspaintadventures seems way up 19:54:08 no no im just very confused 19:55:07 itidus21, http://www.mspaintadventures.com/cascade.php?s=6&p=6009 19:56:52 i just remembered this really low quality art about 2 guys doing some weird stuff 19:57:54 cheater_: i'm back 19:57:58 the birds didn't want my food 19:58:30 itidus21, it hasn't been like that since 2006 19:58:48 In 2007, it was medium quality about one guy doing some weird stuff 20:01:04 which was that 20:05:13 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:06:33 Wearing wizard hats and marx masks and smoking pipes 20:07:00 Now it's high quality art about LOADS AND LOADS OF FREAKING CHARACTERS doing REALLY WEIRD STUFF 20:07:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight). 20:12:53 -!- itidus21 has joined. 20:13:18 blackout 20:13:23 for a few seconds 20:14:01 taneb: that was too creepy for me 20:19:15 Please read gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0phlog*c_prog.ibtlfmm-part-i 20:20:03 kmc: i don't think i'd want your food either. 20:20:25 it's probably full of tobasco. 20:20:47 What kind of food is it? 20:23:09 zzo38: that is a super sketchy URL 20:23:16 cheater_: it was stale bread 20:23:19 like croutons almost 20:23:22 no tobasco 20:24:28 you apparently must still improve at being the pidgeon lady 20:24:36 pigeon too 20:25:36 pidgin lady 20:25:39 the problem is, we had competition 20:25:44 some guy throwing fresh bread 20:25:47 lol 20:25:50 who's we 20:25:53 damn city pigeons, they have it so good 20:25:55 are you having a social life 20:25:56 me and my girlfriend 20:25:58 yes 20:26:01 not true 20:26:09 is she a 45 year old truck driver 20:26:17 no 20:26:18 with hairy elbows 20:26:23 ok 20:26:30 i'm just a splatter, splatter, splatter on the windshield of life 20:26:38 is she interesting and h0t 20:26:40 yeah 20:26:55 is she more interesting and h0t than me 20:27:52 i don't know cheater_ 20:28:29 you inched this ----> <---- close to getting your head ripped off 20:28:34 safe answer 20:30:23 so kmc 20:30:37 does this mean i'm not your #1 any more 20:35:15 haha 20:35:20 no 20:37:34 so i have not been replaced as your only reason to get up in the morning 20:37:51 ok good 20:38:27 hey btw, have you noticed that the new logitech keyboards have this funny rounded space bar 20:38:42 instead of like the classical rectangular bar 20:39:03 much easier to hit with the thumb 20:39:31 how is it rounded? 20:42:24 it tapers off so the front edge is much lower than the edge facing the keys 20:55:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:17:55 I' 21:19:11 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 21:19:17 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:31:38 kmc: What does a super sketchy URL mean? 21:37:33 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:59:21 R.U. a Cyberpunk? http://d.asset.soup.io/asset/3167/2077_6fd2.jpeg 22:15:13 how old id that image? 22:16:12 -!- tiMMe has joined. 22:16:21 Hello all bright minds 22:16:31 after a bit of research I found this irc chan 22:16:51 hi tiMMe 22:16:53 `? welcome 22:16:55 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:17:26 I could use some help with decoding a ''turing esoteric'' code 22:17:45 ah, OK 22:17:54 you have a program in an esolang but don't know the language? or something else? 22:18:14 no, Its a hobby of mine.. and to get to the next hint.. i need to crack this one 22:18:25 I had no idea what this was before 10 min ago 22:18:28 you're missing some context, I think 22:18:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:19:23 as in, you haven't given me enough information to explain what you're trying to do 22:19:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:19:41 Allright.. 22:20:04 well this is somewhat like a treasure hunt.. the clue i need to get to the next part, is decrypted.. 22:20:16 encrypted? 22:20:20 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:20:24 well, I don't know what to call it 22:20:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 22:20:31 its written in this coe 22:20:33 code* 22:20:51 Could I post a pastebin link, and you could take a look at it 22:20:59 OK, might help to explain things 22:21:57 Would you mind taking a look at it for me? maybe you'll understand it 22:22:06 I already said OK… 22:22:10 http://pastebin.com/eLJVk507 22:22:11 thank you 22:23:35 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:24:50 I cannot figure it out yet, but I tried. I can see it consists of letters P,Q,R,S,T,U,V and spaces. 22:25:23 tiMMe: are you sure that's an esolang? or just a regular code? 22:25:29 I guess regular codes are almost ontopic here too… 22:25:48 well I asked for another hint, and he said turing esoteric 22:25:50 Including long runs of Q, some runs of T as well. But, I do am just guessing it to be a regular code, and not any kind of computer program 22:26:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:26:19 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 22:26:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:26:35 Its probably only a code, not a computer program 22:27:00 this channel's mostly about programming 22:27:03 if you decypher it, it will give me directions, coordinates or something 22:27:12 okay.. sorry about that. had no idea 22:27:38 Do you have any idea where I could get help with this type of thing? 22:27:46 not sure 22:27:56 here's probably not actually that bad a place, even though it's offtopic 22:28:03 There is probably a significance to the offsets between the letters, i.e. it's encoding something like 1,0,0,1,1,-2,0,0,... 22:28:23 Well you guys came to more conclutions in 2 min, than me and my friends did in 4-5 hours :P 22:28:31 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:28:44 Discuss it here if you want; we are often not on topic anyways, but you can try something more relevant channel may work 22:28:50 Gregor: I was thinking of that too 22:29:16 perhaps the six letters correspond to the six 3D compass directions? 22:29:24 could be forming the route through a 3D maze 22:29:25 I also noticed the sequence "PQQQRSQQQQPTUSQV PQQQQQQQQQRSTTTTTTTTTPTUSTV" appearing twice 22:29:55 Also, every code word ends with "V" 22:30:04 Above the "code" it says this : Crack the code to find its whereabouts... | That's why I think its coordinates 22:30:08 Oh, good catches, both. 22:30:44 In fact, they all contain PTUS, then zero or more (but few) characters, then V at the end. 22:30:58 (And all start with PQQ, but that's a bit more obvious) 22:31:23 Actually, the offsets between the letters do not seem relevant to me due to the way what letters are used and their patterns 22:31:38 Gregor: But, yes those too, are something to consider 22:32:21 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 22:32:38 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:33:43 Would you want the website where I've gotten the code? Maybe its easier to look at it there 22:34:03 tiMMe: Do you have any more context, such as, what would this be the whereabouts of? 22:34:14 yeah, look at this link 22:34:15 http://coord.info/GC3K55F 22:40:51 -!- Aardwolf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:42:57 hmm 22:45:21 That is difficult. 22:46:23 could it be one of those languages where its not concerned with the symbols but the patterns they form? 22:46:52 Possibly 22:47:32 Nevertheless I think that the spaces delimit code words and each one is separate from each other 22:55:07 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:59:38 -!- Nisstyre has changed nick to trollstyre. 23:00:31 1)each codeword always starts with P 23:00:38 2)after intial P there is always a sequence of 2 - 9 Q's 23:00:48 3)after the sequence of Q's there is always RS 23:01:02 4)the RS is always followed by either a sequence of 3 - 10 Q's or a sequence of 3 - 9 T's 23:03:24 5)this is always followed by PTU 23:04:57 looks like it could be regular 23:05:14 i mean the language from which words between spaces are taken 23:06:17 Let's see 23:06:25 tiMMe: So is this from Dropbox or notch 23:06:29 rather. 1 - 2 PTU's 23:08:05 -!- olsner has joined. 23:08:20 dropbox or notch ? what do you mean 23:08:55 anyway, someone cracked it for me ;D on a norwegian forum 23:09:10 ook, what was this from anyways 23:09:29 i got what i said above wrong 23:10:21 tiMMe: do tell 23:11:45 im guessing that Q and T are like brainfuck's + and - in some way 23:12:03 I assumed that Q was + since it was the most of it. And since there were an equal amount of R and U they had to be [ and ], R came first so it had to be [. I saw on a example program that they started with > So I assumed that was P. I guessed the rest, only 7 tsigns total, so few options. 23:13:22 oh. 23:13:49 what an impure puzzle. 23:14:01 oklopol: are you making a Haskell joke? 23:14:06 no 23:14:15 good 23:14:18 ...somehow it made me think of brainfuck too 23:14:22 I'm not sure if we have a defined punishment for Haskell jokes 23:14:24 But I didn't bother to actually run it. 23:14:28 but an undefined punishment is arguably worse 23:14:28 i just don't like puzzles where you have to know something to crack it 23:14:37 Looks like rather crude brainfuck though 23:14:45 Probably a full program for each letter of output 23:14:59 :O 23:15:04 doubt it 23:15:12 Lumpio_: It is what I thought, too 23:15:19 But perhaps not quite 23:15:41 i should not have given such red herrings 23:15:44 in my analysis 23:16:00 hmm 23:16:20 yeah okay so letters are really that short to produce based on the constants page on esolang 23:16:24 Or maybe each code word is a program or something else but standalone, and put together. Either by letter, or by numbers... 23:16:35 copypaste from there? 23:19:16 ^bf >++[<+++>-]>+..++. 23:19:16 23:19:54 ^bf >++[<+++>-]<+..++. 23:19:54 23:21:59 -!- tiMMe has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:22:43 ^bf >++[<--->-]<-. 23:22:43 23:22:59 http://pastebin.com/bD0E1vmr 23:23:14 the punishment for Haskell jokes shall be unspecified behavior 23:23:36 is that a haskell joke 23:24:26 no it's a C joke 23:24:40 ^bf <++[>+++<-]>+..++. 23:24:40 23:32:09 -!- elliott has joined. 23:32:25 Her finner du cachen: N 59 23.148 E 010 25.557 23:32:37 ^bf >+++[<+++[<++++++++>-]>-]<<. 23:32:37 H 23:33:15 okay that's not from the constants page 23:33:19 what a prick 23:33:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:33:30 prick? 23:33:31 yes it wasn't codewords at all 23:33:49 the H gets everything prepared >.< 23:34:07 i see. 23:34:34 why have i still not made a programming language puzzle :( 23:34:59 i had a language half-made for it, but i never bothered to finish and publish it and it's gone now 23:35:12 its a simple text replace. timme was right about R and U 23:35:40 based on the H he was right about everything 23:36:22 ^ Her finner du cachen: N 59 23.148 E 010 25.557 :D 23:36:49 you said that already, what's your point 23:37:14 achtung du cachen 23:37:18 im.. 23:37:21 an asshole 23:37:29 you are? 23:37:41 a bit 23:37:41 die nyankatze! 23:37:44 http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/73/73315.jpg 23:38:17 aww cute 23:40:37 "god is dead" -- nyankatze 23:41:21 thachaf 23:42:14 :o 23:57:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 2012-05-16: 00:08:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:08:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 00:08:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:08:44 network outage between router and the hop beyond that, rare to get one of those 00:09:07 I noticed the network was back up when adverts started showing again in my feed reader :) 00:09:49 heh 00:09:50 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 00:10:23 You subscribe to ad feeds? :-) 00:10:35 @messages 00:10:35 You don't have any new messages. 00:10:38 how else would ais523 find all the newest adverts? 00:11:29 hi elliott, what's your state today, and do you feel that your state graph is strongly connected 00:11:57 helliott 00:12:05 hall 00:12:10 oklopol: absolutely 00:12:47 great! 00:13:07 mine is a tree and i'm way down it :( 00:13:38 mine's a line, I'm never in the same state twice 00:14:01 mines dot 00:14:04 im _|_ 00:14:08 sheep 00:14:10 -- Aristotle. 00:14:19 (famous rap-metal guitarist) 00:14:26 (3000 bc - 1 ad) 00:15:10 jesus did _not_ like rap-metal. 00:15:35 aristotle was actually jesus' brother 00:15:46 there was a time travel accident. 00:15:50 sadly he did not survive 00:15:51 half-brother? 00:15:57 no, brother. 00:16:47 so mary did not have an intact hymen before jesus? 00:17:08 I didn't say Aristotle was born first. 00:17:09 i assume he was jesus' big brother if he was born 3000 bc 00:17:10 There were no results matching the query .Create the page "Linux desktop zeitgeist" on this wiki! 00:17:14 oklopol: like I said, time travel accident 00:17:17 wrong search engine, I guess… 00:17:25 ais523: thanks for the esolang name 00:17:26 oh i missed that line. 00:17:31 also, that "remove newlines" button is really oddly bugged 00:17:34 elliott: that's what I thought :) 00:18:17 i tend to censor the most important line, life is way too interesting otherwise. 00:20:50 wow is Zeitgeist really pretentious 00:21:05 I didn't even realise that an activity logging daemon /could/ be pretentious… 00:22:23 I think that the name "Zeitgeist" implies pretension. 00:23:19 "The Element of Intelligence" 00:24:31 fulltext search that celebrates craftsmanship 00:25:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:25:55 -!- DH____ has joined. 00:27:14 I think the example engravings on Apple products may be the most ridiculously pretentious and awful things ever. http://images.apple.com/v20120515091949/startpage/images/store-fdayipadengraving.png 00:33:05 That's not so much pretentious, as just plain horrible. 00:35:59 http://cdn.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/news/3245946/iPad_engraving.jpg 00:36:23 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AeaeRDQ8GKo/TB6623RDnXI/AAAAAAAAAVk/TTHtzj4QgpA/s1600/touch_fathersday_engrave.jpg 00:36:50 Actually all Apple marketing material seems to take place in an alternate universe where everyone is rich and insufferable. 00:37:13 who buys their parents stuff 00:37:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:38:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:39:34 well perhaps something cheap and mainly symbolic like a... fucking iphone 00:39:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:39:38 http://dynamicaspects.org/blog/2012/05/15/back-to-the-future/ 00:39:47 or whatever that thing is 00:45:10 What is the local telephone number in my area for reporting scams on telephone? 00:45:30 0800 419419 00:45:56 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:06 zzo38: Are they telephone scams? 00:46:15 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:47:09 Yes 00:48:12 I found it in the telephone book 00:48:24 -!- trollstyre has changed nick to nisstyre. 00:50:19 I have now recorded the session I have played of Dungeons&Dragons game yesterday. It is of short duration so there isn't much to write. 00:53:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:58:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:02:17 One online quiz system I wanted to review is one which I seem to remember was available on X-BIT, but X-BIT is gone now, and I don't know if there are other servers which it can be tried. 01:28:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:54 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:39:28 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:52:41 What's X-BIT? 01:55:41 -!- aloril has joined. 02:00:48 X-BIT is some BBS I was on during year 2000, it is very good they had many interesting messages and good games I like including Word Nerd, Word Warp, and Wheel of Fortune 02:04:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:05:57 zzo38: It seems to still exist to me. 02:06:08 http://x-bit.org/; the online client at http://x-bit.org/ftelnet/ connects just fine. 02:08:18 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:11:12 Well, they said it would stop. Anyways X-BIT is not HTTP-based service 02:11:48 O, this X-BIT works now, same as before. I tried connect using HyperTerminal it works OK 02:12:06 But my account got deleted 02:14:01 elliott, is it worth using the new version of DF? 02:14:17 What do you mean by new version? DF2011 -> DF2012? 02:14:23 Sorry, do I mean DF2010? 02:14:59 I mean v0.34.08 which came out very recently 02:15:11 Sure, why not? Isn't it save-file compatible? 02:15:24 * Sgeo is sort of waiting for Lazy Newb Pack >.> 02:15:59 Have you seen how unreadable the tilesets are? 02:16:32 Dwarf Therapist and sometimes DFHack (usually to work around bugs) are sometimes useful, but the rest is junk, and Dwarf Therapist is available separately. 02:16:56 Has DT even been updated yet? >.> 02:17:03 >.> 02:17:03 Or maybe I'm lazy and just want an easy installer 02:17:08 >.> 02:17:08 It was updated two days ago. 02:17:27 http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_34_08_win.zip http://dwarftherapist.googlecode.com/files/DwarfTherapist-0.6.12.zip 02:18:17 And you don't need Dwarf Therapist for the beginning of a fortress, if you're really that lazy. 02:19:26 Doesn't Lazy Newb Pack have keybindings to make laptop play easier? 02:19:44 Dunno, but I play on a laptop. 02:20:03 Well, the original keyboard I played it on technically has a number pad. But I never use it, and the rest of the keys are laid out like a laptop. 02:20:12 I don't really see what you'd have problems with using a laptop keyboard. 02:20:32 It's not like there's a penalty for using the arrow keys to move diagonally like there is in roguelikes :P 02:51:18 `quote 02:51:18 `quote 02:51:19 `quote 02:51:20 `quote 02:51:22 ais523: Is it 4 or 5? 02:51:25 641) It's a bit like a regular monowheel, except when you brake too hard, instead of you going around and around inside the wheel, the (1100lb) wheel rolls over you. 02:51:28 788) I swear my dreams are becoming increasingly rave + computer science oriented 02:51:36 628) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love 02:51:37 732) Here in Scotland we have a rigorous and well-tested theory of brothels. 02:52:16 4 or 5 until wat? 02:52:29 4 or 5 quotes. 02:52:37 until wat? 02:54:20 elliott: It's 5. 02:54:35 ais523: Is it 5? 02:54:46 Yes. 02:55:44 ais523: Is it 4? 02:55:51 elliott: No. 02:56:09 Isn't it? 02:56:18 It isn't. 02:57:49 Wow. 02:59:31 it's 5 02:59:36 `quote 02:59:38 there's your fifth 02:59:39 826) it's funny what is gay right c*** 03:02:13 I paid for X-BIT service and they said it lasts for the entire lifetime, but since my account got deleted I do not have that. 03:03:38 elliott: 826? 03:03:48 Yeah okay. 03:03:50 `delquote 826 03:03:51 628 is probably next-worst but it's much better 03:03:54 ​*poof* it's funny what is gay right c*** 03:07:40 -!- AerosolProphet has joined. 03:08:08 03:08:32 * AerosolProphet greets 03:10:35 `welcome AerosolProphet 03:10:38 AerosolProphet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:13:20 -!- JeremyS has joined. 03:15:23 Hey, is anyone interested in giving feedback on a cross-platform brainfuck Debugger/Editor I've just written? 03:18:49 sure 03:18:53 `welcome JeremyS 03:18:57 JeremyS: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:19:29 Where can this brainfuck debugger be found? 03:21:44 https://code.google.com/p/wxbfide 03:22:12 Kool. I'll check it out. 03:22:23 I'll package up a tarball if you don't like svn. 03:22:26 It's wxwidgets 03:22:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:22:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:24:48 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:25:11 -!- mtve has joined. 03:27:05 Eh. SVN works 03:29:00 Okay, it also uses Codeblocks to build I realize. Do you want a Makefile instead? 03:29:35 Im not familiar with CodeBlocks. 03:29:53 Yes, probably 03:30:45 Okay, I'll upload it to svn 03:34:38 AerosolProphet: Okay, done 03:41:07 Ok. Brb 03:42:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:47:40 I have recreated X-BIT account. Now I can access FidoNet, Word Warp game, etc. Currently I am using HyperTerminal to connect since it is what I used before, but I may configure PuTTY to work with it, or something else related too 03:51:53 -!- AerosolProphet has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 04:02:03 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:21:14 What light bulb? 04:23:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:23:18 no light bulb 04:23:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:31:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:56:53 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:37:25 Should I just go ahead and watch captnduck 05:37:47 no just 05:37:48 play df 05:37:49 it's really easy 05:37:59 if you want play a succession fortress so you can skip the earlygame 05:38:04 taneb is good at getting fortresses started 05:38:23 But I'd get the fortress killed 05:38:45 unlikely 05:38:50 fortresses tend to stay alive unless goblins 05:38:58 or unless you build something and mess it up 05:39:14 What if DF bores me? 05:39:22 What if I like reading DF stories more than playing DF 05:39:54 then don't play df 05:54:51 zzo38: hi 06:01:24 Hello 06:13:14 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:13:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:21:50 Perhaps I can make up a program to printout the quiz files in Internet Quiz Engine, by converting to TeX and then DVI and then whatever format the printer accepts (such as PCL). But it would try to guess one of many possible "modes" it is in to determine the best layout for printing, and you can override that and other options if you want to do so. 06:24:14 I can also try to ask them to put Internet Quiz Engine on X-BIT as well. 06:38:42 -!- JeremyS has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:39:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Are there any moderators in here? [Ouch]). 06:50:48 hmm, Jeff Atwood seems to have trolled a sizeable proportion of programmers on the internet recently 06:50:55 not sure if he meant to or if he was being serious 06:52:22 and now you're helping him troll #esoteric? :P 06:52:53 sure :) 06:57:24 @tell kmc googled for Quotron, came up with this: http://pcridesagain.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/theguts.jpg 06:57:24 Consider it noted. 07:45:15 -!- nooga has joined. 07:48:05 sgeo: you could always pick a succession fortress in progress, and then... just play it locally and not post about it 07:51:00 Isn't that a tautology? Most tautologies are. 07:53:15 :D 07:54:55 worth quoting in #esoteric /as well as/ upvoting 07:55:07 `quote 07:55:09 `quote 07:55:10 `quote 07:55:12 `quote 07:55:13 `quote 07:55:28 242) [...] reyouthismootherate [...] 07:55:39 682) It's like single player Hackiki in a way(?) Ngevd: yes, but with multiple players. 07:55:41 745) i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself 07:55:41 531) (Enigma is two games; one is solving Enigma puzzles, the other is working out how to represent things as Enigma puzzles, preferably with the minimal amount of lua and player-hidden information possible) 07:55:41 288) My penis is definitely way smaller than that. 07:56:18 hmm, 531 is mostly simply factual rather than amusing, which makes it weird why it got quoted 07:56:23 unless there's some hidden meaning there I missed 07:56:37 so I'd delete that one out of the five 07:56:38 elliott? 07:56:47 o hhm what i hi 07:56:49 *hmm 07:57:00 288 is crap 07:57:12 531 is better, even if it's bad 07:57:14 `delquote 288 07:57:18 ​*poof* My penis is definitely way smaller than that. 07:57:38 `quote 07:57:38 `quote 07:57:39 `quote 07:57:39 `quote 07:57:41 `quote 07:57:52 487) aibohphobia The fear of palindromes 07:57:55 765) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? 07:58:06 281) Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want. 07:58:07 449) The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. 07:58:09 767) There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. 07:58:24 487 is unoriginal; 449 is a bit meh 07:58:32 767 is pretty hilarious 07:58:44 765 is good too 07:58:48 yes 07:58:54 and 281 is in between 07:59:04 I'd delete 281 07:59:07 it's only funny because of the grammar 07:59:12 hmm 07:59:16 ok, 487 07:59:17 it's funny because of the sentiment expressed too 07:59:18 if it really is unoriginal 07:59:22 `delquote 487 07:59:23 I've seen it before 07:59:25 ​*poof* aibohphobia The fear of palindromes 07:59:28 well before #esoteric 07:59:33 it might have been reinvented 07:59:39 ais523 is a bit of an ailihphiliac, so he knows these things 08:00:03 perhaps ailihphile is how it would actually work 08:00:06 come to think of it 08:00:06 Wiktionary says it dates from at least 1983 08:00:19 why does posterous suck so much 08:00:19 elihphile, surely? 08:00:21 can someone tell me 08:00:43 my aigahphagia is getting so bad i cannot eat foods without an axis of symmetry anymore 08:00:45 cheater_: does it have anything to do with the topic of the channel, or the current conversation? 08:01:13 hmm, a state of having no palindromes is being sselless 08:01:36 something having lots of palindromicity means it's lufful 08:01:40 ais523: irc is not a colliding medium, a channel can have multiple conversations in parallel 08:01:53 cheater_: a conversation requires multiple people who actually want to take part in it 08:02:00 (thus the "topic of the channel" clause) 08:02:05 -!- qfr` has joined. 08:02:16 that's some hostname 08:02:25 .gf? 08:02:39 french guiana 08:02:39 doesn't look like an actually real hostname 08:02:48 oh, it is 08:02:50 just no HTTP 08:03:05 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 08:03:08 your question was phrased as an or clause, which implied you were only asking about the one or the other. so, yes, the question is related to the conversation it is part of. 08:03:08 -!- qfr` has changed nick to qfr. 08:03:22 $ curl 'http://death.to.religion.info.gf/' 08:03:23 08:03:23 403 Forbidden 08:03:39 It's IPv6-only, though. 08:03:39 cheater_: that's not what "current conversation" means, and you're misinterpreting me deliberately 08:04:04 no, i am just saying there is no "current conversation" in a medium that can hold multiple conversations 08:04:16 there is if it's only holding one conversation at the time 08:04:25 and often there's a current main conversation as well as side conversations 08:04:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:04:57 i think what you want is a mailing list where conversations are clearly demarcated by reply chains 08:05:10 that can work better to isolate conversations imo 08:05:46 holy fuck the time just changed on its own when i wasn't looking o_O 08:05:53 sur fucking real 08:06:28 cheater_: no, that's what /you/ want, apparently, and you're trying to derail the channel into something useless /again/ 08:06:43 no i'm not 08:06:50 yes you are 08:07:41 cheater_: "no i'm not" is not even a palindrome, shame on you! 08:07:52 blogging is an important part of being able to publish pertinent knowledge, such as for example programming language information. i was hoping someone could suggest a better platform for it. how is that useless 08:08:12 i think you just want to aggravate this because you don't like me 08:08:19 so i'll just stop talking about this 08:08:25 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 08:08:37 it's not just me, you've driven quite a few people from the channel already 08:08:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:08:43 not true 08:08:51 is true, I've been taking surveys 08:08:53 manifestly true, actually 08:09:01 since I'm one of them 08:09:01 um, they leave because they don't like me 08:09:06 in fact, look at kmc's reaction 08:09:17 he specifically said that if i come in and talk about just anything, people flip out 08:09:22 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b *!*@g230223105.adsl.alicedsl.de. 08:09:34 -!- ais523 has kicked cheater_ repeatedly deliberately missing the point. 08:10:18 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 08:10:27 "cheater_ um, they leave because they don't like me" who thinks this is reason enough on a channel this size? i can't quite figure out my opinion. 08:11:47 well anyway gotta go to work to work 08:17:06 hmm, I should get around to installing and on Esolang 08:20:25 going back to the conversation we were at before this distraction: I guess something that's full of palindromes is luful 08:21:43 plagiarist! 08:22:00 09:01 something having lots of palindromicity means it's lufful 08:22:16 missed that 08:22:28 it was 20 minutes ago and above the fold, so you can't expect me to remember 08:22:30 someone who studies primes is a tsigolologist 08:22:38 "tsi" is like "psi" 08:22:39 *palindromes? 08:22:40 but with ts 08:22:43 ais523: err, eys 08:22:44 *yes 08:22:45 same thing 08:22:57 heh, that sounds like "psycholologist" 08:23:50 someone who manufactures palindromes is a htimsmith? 08:24:11 the opposite of a palindrome is unnu 08:25:05 and something that used to be a palindrome but isn't any more is ex-xe 08:25:18 something that isn't a palindrome is a nonon 08:25:45 someone prejudiced against palindromes is a tsist 08:25:48 hmm, the adjective is quite different from the noun in this case :) 08:26:25 msism 08:26:35 something that's like a palindrome but not quite is y 08:26:51 (do i win) 08:26:56 that one made me laugh 08:27:01 alternatively, hsish 08:28:16 or a ekila-alike 08:28:18 *an 08:28:52 the IRC channel for discussing palindromes is ## (also the Twitter hashtag) 08:30:13 09:30 Topic: Welcome to the two hash channel, also known as ##, or nameless "about" channel. 08:30:15 thanks freenode 08:31:00 it actually exists? 08:31:04 I assumed it'd be some sort of error 08:31:14 now I'm wondering what it's about 08:31:18 I think all of them up to like 16 hashes exist 08:31:28 ais523: it's either about nothing, or the official channel for something called # 08:31:51 would explain why it's quiet 08:31:54 arguably also why Sgeo is there 08:32:09 (and given that he isn't obviously online right now, perhaps he idles there rather than joining just because it was mentioned) 08:32:28 i have this vision of sgeo's client's channel list just filled with 08:32:29 # 08:32:30 ## 08:32:31 ### 08:32:32 #### 08:32:35 ... 08:33:17 Or, I could be lurking in here. 08:33:25 which? 08:33:28 no that's impossible 08:33:37 ais523: it could be both! 08:33:43 something which might or might not be a palindrome is a maybebyam 08:33:44 I joined just because it was mentioned. 08:33:51 elliott: indeed, but that's even more unlikely 08:33:59 ais523: since when can you prepend "maybe" to words? 08:34:03 "This sure is maybegreat!" 08:34:21 elliott: since Haskell 08:34:32 something that fulfils some, but not all of the laws of palindromes, is quasisauq 08:34:36 but people know what it means anyway, therefore it's a rule 08:34:49 *quasisaqu 08:34:56 oops 08:35:00 wait, what? 08:35:04 that's not a palindrome 08:35:05 oh 08:35:08 ha 08:35:09 ha 08:35:10 ha 08:35:11 ha 08:35:12 ha 08:35:14 ... 08:35:16 ha 08:36:47 there is no such thing as a free alligator helmet 08:37:06 that's... not a palindrome 08:37:19 there's a lot of other things it isn't too 08:37:32 what isn't it not? 08:37:48 a somewhat mutated meme? 08:37:56 (a palindrome that goes viral is a mememem, btw) 08:38:21 is the meme something other than "... free lunch"? 08:38:53 no 08:39:01 well, "there is no such thing as a free lunch" is the full meme 08:39:05 no it's not 08:39:12 it's "there ain't" 08:39:19 or, I think it's more correct as "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" 08:39:37 but "ain't" means "have not" so that sentence isn't correct 08:40:06 it's perfectly correct 08:40:16 double negation is weird in natural language 08:40:43 it should be "isn't" not "ain't" to be correct 08:40:57 err, wait, what? 08:41:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:41:05 "ain't" is a perfectly valid way to say "isn't" 08:41:20 "there ain't" ~ "there isn't" 08:41:28 ai = is 08:41:40 "I ain't got a car"? 08:41:42 clearly 08:41:46 "Ain't" ain't incorrect, it just ain't formal. 08:41:57 perhaps it's just a generalised negated contraction 08:42:07 ais523: it stands for multiple things 08:42:16 is not, am not, haven't, etc. 08:42:19 now we need a sentence where "hasn't" and "isn't" both fit 08:42:30 English does need an amn't, perhaps ain't is meant to fill that gap 08:44:19 * oerjan thinks he once learnt that ain't is everything mushed together 08:44:31 oerjan: Good approximation. 08:44:52 ais523: He hasn't a clue; he isn't a clue. (The latter in the context of a private detective story or something.) 08:45:06 fizzie: well done 08:45:29 And "he ain't a clue" actually works for both meanings. 08:45:41 Though without context I'm defaulting to the "isn't" interpretation... 08:46:10 hm i'm not sure you can use ain't for a non-auxiliary "have"? 08:48:34 oerjan: well, ain't would always mean "haven't" in context 08:48:48 still. 08:49:05 it is not modifying any other verb. 08:49:24 i'm not sure what you mean, hten 08:49:25 *then 08:49:28 It'd sound *weird* from some speakers, but from others it'd work just fine. 08:49:53 Though, just the thought of "ain't" coming from an RP speaker gives me the giggles. 08:50:11 i find "once upon a time" to be a really bizzare idiom 08:50:29 we _ain't_ amused 08:51:29 itidus21: lots of languages have formulaic fairy tale introduction idioms 08:51:48 do they make equally little sense gramattically? 08:52:00 norwegian's "det var en gang" sadly makes sense in context 08:52:18 it's the "upon a time" which really throws me 08:52:33 (it just means "there was once") 08:52:44 "Mukashi mukashi" (Japanese) is kinda weird. 08:52:59 "Mukashi" is a word meaning approx. "a long time ago". 08:53:09 alternative fairytale openings: "OK, so" "It's kind of a long story, but" "Listen up, bitches:" 08:53:13 Why repeating it turns it into a fairly tale introduction, I dunno. 08:53:29 "A long time ago, a long time ago:" 08:53:30 (although it is still idiomatic: it wouldn't fit in any other context) 08:53:30 oerjan: "There was once" is done in English too, I think 08:53:40 pikhq_: in a galaxy far away, in a galaxy far away 08:54:00 Actually, to give you a better sense of how weird that is: 08:54:02 "Ago, ago:" 08:54:44 I guess I'll just accept that it goes in with all the other word-repetitions-that-make-for-different-meanings, then. 08:55:05 * oerjan vaguely recalls there was one which meant something like "there was and there wasn't" 08:55:15 Like "toki" (time) -> "tokidoki" (sometimes) 08:55:27 Or "iro" (color) -> "iroiro" (various) 08:55:40 Still friggn' weird. 08:56:15 * oerjan suddenly recalls "Det hendte i de dager da Vårherre vandret omkring på jorden" which is used for _religious_ fables 08:56:25 what does that translate as? 08:56:46 It happened in those days when our Lord walked about on the earth 08:57:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_upon_a_time -- surprisingly helpful 08:57:14 s/those/the/ 08:57:39 "Whistle, whistle, the story is done" 08:57:41 What a shitty ending. 08:57:50 "'...and three days they ate, drunk and had fun." 08:57:54 That's better. 08:57:58 "and with a dog and a cat, the tale is finished" what 08:58:02 "the end" 08:58:05 s/^""/"/ 08:58:15 '...and they lived happily until they died.' '...and if they have not died yet, they still live there today.' 08:58:37 'And then came a pig with a long snout, and the story is out (over).' WHAT 08:58:39 That's the length of it. 08:58:52 haha, I just reached that one 08:59:06 "Disaster there, feast here... bran there, flour here..." Wow, what kind of ending is that? 08:59:23 "There was, and there was not, there was..." Or a beginning. Georgian, explain yourself??? 08:59:39 'And if they're not dead, they still live.' 08:59:47 'So blissful' -- good ending. 08:59:48 Congrats, Danish. 08:59:52 "And I was there, drank some mead ale, dribbled through my beard, had not in my mouth" 08:59:53 WHAT 09:00:04 these have to be fake 09:00:29 Snip, snap, snout: then this adventure is finished. What's it with snouts? 09:00:36 elliott: The Japanese ending I've never seen, but it at least doesn't seem like *obvious* bullshit. 09:01:20 Yup, it's accurate. 09:01:35 Though the translation seems off. 09:03:27 "めでたし" is a conjugation of 愛でる, defined as "美しさを味わい感動する。"... Something like "lovely", "wonderful", then. 09:03:49 No idea where "blissful" came from. 09:04:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:05:04 the Greek ending is pretty amusing 09:05:23 @tell oerjan I found your terminal. 09:05:23 Consider it noted. 09:05:37 haha, that /is/ good 09:32:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:33:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:33:42 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:35:32 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:43:39 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 09:44:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:54:24 -!- qfr has quit (Changing host). 09:54:24 -!- qfr has joined. 09:57:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:01:08 -!- derdon has joined. 10:03:58 Hello 10:06:40 hi Taneb 10:08:10 I never did write the specs for Dilston, did I? 10:08:20 I can't get it to be not-turing complete 10:09:39 It's hard to make things sub-TC. 10:10:00 I don't want it to be sub-TC, I want it to be maybe TC in a certain way 10:10:10 -!- nooga has joined. 10:10:22 That is, iff a non-trivial loop occurs in some collatz (hailstone) sequence 10:15:56 Right. 10:20:53 -!- Ngevd has joined. 10:23:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:24:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:28:32 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 10:28:58 "The relational database model is one of the very few things in the entire history of the computer industry where we actually got things right, up front, instead of just endlessly duct taping hack over hack." 10:29:11 Hello, I'm a reddit commenter! I have literally never seen SQL. 10:29:24 Oh, SQL 10:30:33 . o O ( google:SQL::windows:unix ) 10:32:38 No results found for "google:SQL::windows:unix". 10:36:15 i wish i didn't post the last 2 lines. 10:36:57 "Originally based upon relational algebra and tuple relational calculus," wow.. even SQL is based on algebra and calculus 10:39:26 FSVO algebra; calculus. 10:41:51 "one of the very few things in the entire history of the computer industry" so many compliments are based on fallacies. 10:42:15 of course i would have believed him if i didn't read "I have literally never seen SQL." 10:47:01 Isn't SQL just a thin layer over the underlying concept though? 10:48:56 drinking game would be take a drink every time the word relation, calculus or algebra appears in this wikipedia reference of the above quote: http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/1897740.htm 10:50:36 related http://technology.amis.nl/2009/10/13/oracle-rdbms-11gr2-solving-a-sudoku-using-recursive-subquery-factoring/ 10:52:50 that's great 10:56:07 " how ever this dosent resolve all the sudoku types ..maybe just the easy ones." this guys dreams are crushed 10:56:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:58:20 -!- augur has joined. 10:58:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:21 -!- dessos has left. 11:24:47 @ping 11:24:47 pong 11:25:04 I'm merely almost gone, it seems 11:29:32 hey elliott 11:29:35 one of my ghosts finally killed someone 11:29:38 <3 11:29:38 \o/ 11:29:39 | 11:29:39 /| 11:29:40 !lg * killer=~patashu -tv 11:29:55 this isn't ##crawl, that won't work :P 11:31:19 -!- augur has joined. 11:34:55 ? 11:35:21 another hermetic game? 11:36:22 "Hermetic"? 11:37:18 !lg * killer=~patashu -tv 11:37:19 This isn't ##crawl! 11:37:23 Perfect... 11:37:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetics 11:37:30 ;d 11:37:57 The word "esoteric" is used in that article! 11:38:00 It's relevant 11:38:15 of course it is 11:40:30 I know what "hermetic" means. 11:40:48 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:41:02 then why ask? 11:41:15 I was inquiring as to its specific relevance in your question. 11:41:26 oh 11:42:02 right 11:43:42 i was ust curious, because every time i come back here after a while, i see some brand new stuff you're all playing with 11:44:06 If it's a game, it might be the same one as last time, if it was within the past few weeks. 11:44:17 (Crawl.) 11:44:23 Unless you mean Minecraft :P 11:45:49 minecraft isn't hermetic at all 11:46:06 and crawl is... 11:46:08 uh 11:46:10 roguelike? 11:46:15 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:46:21 Yeah 11:47:09 btw. seen Brogue? 11:48:17 yes 11:48:28 it's very pretty 11:48:30 i think it's fun 11:48:40 and quite fun, although I haven't played it too much yet 11:48:43 quite casual but still entertaining 11:49:39 -!- myndzi has joined. 11:50:03 crawl isn't very casual at all, but it's quite entertaining 11:50:03 Remember when ais523 got almost addicted to Dredmor? 11:51:22 "almost" 11:54:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:54:30 you can play crawl casually 11:54:36 you only need to know tab, o and i 11:55:06 elliott: wait should I tell APT Guy to tell McBride to hurry the fuck up with Epigram 2 or is that no longer relevant? 11:55:07 Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 11:55:25 Patashu: i isn't strictly necessary 11:55:34 Phantom_Hoover: That's like telling ais523 to hurry up with Feather. 11:55:40 It accomplishes nothing. 11:55:47 AH BUT 11:55:54 We are not ais523's students. 11:55:59 Yes. 11:56:00 We are. 11:57:24 We are all doing computer science at Birmingham university 11:58:13 Wait is ais not in manchester 11:58:27 ais523 is definitely Birmingham 11:58:29 also why does this mac suck so much 11:58:44 Because it's actually a dyson 11:58:50 why have apple decided that because something works on a phone it must work on a desktop 11:59:01 Because windows and ubuntu agree 11:59:07 *microsoft and canonical 11:59:56 I have an answer for everything 12:00:51 ok lets just stab everyone 12:01:18 That would be a bad idea 12:01:21 Also slightly illegal 12:01:37 Also, you're in Edinburgh, and Edinburgh =/= Glasgow 12:01:41 Remember that! 12:01:54 oh god you're right 12:01:58 WHAT HAVE I BECOME 12:02:06 (the answer is 'a glaswegian') 12:02:13 A Glasw-- dammit 12:02:13 `quote glasgow 12:02:16 512) Riots in Glasgow would probably be reported as a sudden drop in crime. \ 679) No you can't fight crime in Glasgow. It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum. 12:02:39 Words of wisdom, there. 12:03:08 `quote breakfast 12:03:11 474) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry \ 496) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency \ 767) elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual 12:03:25 `quote 767 12:03:28 767) elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... 12:03:36 ^style 12:03:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 12:04:07 Thought that would continue as "a state of almost perpetual breakfast". 12:04:25 But alas, it doesn't 12:05:44 `quote octopus 12:05:46 217) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 248) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. 12:06:14 Someone should invent those some day. 12:06:22 Here's an idea: a Fungot style based on the quotes 12:06:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:08:50 I like how more than 8% of this channel is bots 12:09:12 10% if you count myndzi 12:09:32 12% if you count elliott 12:09:38 :( 12:09:49 There aren't enough quotes to be a decent fungot style, I think. 12:09:51 elliott: seems to be absent, just build a lazy stream in the sense of " i am xenu" and tell them that 12:10:07 That's because you keep deleting them 12:10:18 Maybe if we incorporate bash.org 12:10:20 @quote 12:10:20 Berengal says: data Neither a b = Left | Right 12:10:22 And that 12:10:22 I keep deleting the crappy ones. 12:10:34 @help quote 12:10:34 quote 12:10:35 remember 12:10:35 Quote somebody, a random person, or save a memorable quote 12:12:19 "Aw, that sucks." -GOD 12:13:46 `quote tortoise 12:13:48 No output. 12:13:49 `quote acid 12:13:52 274) Lymia: I put big spider in my bed already. So if you have no more left you do not have to worry about it anymore. You can just take a cold shower or hot acid or whatever you want to, instead. 12:13:53 `quote super 12:13:56 579) THERE WAS A VISIBLE SUPERNOVA AND NOBODY FUCKING TOLD ME??????????????????????????/ \ 640) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. 12:13:57 `quote ignorance 12:14:00 619) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. 12:14:01 `quote no 12:14:04 9) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 12) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. \ 28) ehird: There is no h in "honour" \ 30) pikhq: A lunar 12:14:38 Taneb: Do you have an opinion on the quote identifier issue? 12:17:34 Which quote identifier issue? 12:20:01 Taneb: Well, you know how deleting quotes changes the numbers of other ones? 12:20:14 That sucks. It would be nice to have a better means by which to identify quotes. 12:20:56 Some options are: persistent integers (quote identifiers are never reused, and gaps are allowed; this is what the old quote system did); timestamps; prefixes of cryptographic hashes; and the text of the quotes themselves. 12:21:42 I'd go for a combo of the current system and persistent integers, which on thinking about it wouldn't work at all 12:22:00 What combo, out of curiosity? 12:22:13 Each quote gets two numbers 12:22:27 That sounds confusing :) 12:22:28 One permanent, one temporary 12:22:47 It wouldn't work, though 12:23:14 They'd interfere with each-other like an unobserved photon and itself 12:23:59 `echo (2012-05-16T13:23:44) Abc def quux. 12:24:01 ​(2012-05-16T13:23:44) Abc def quux. 12:24:07 Hmm, that's a pain to copy here. 12:24:11 Taneb: Does that select as one word for you? 12:24:30 It doesn't grab the brackets 12:24:42 Right, that's intended behaviour. Not so for me. 12:24:58 `echo (ac62d173) How about this? 12:25:01 ​(ac62d173) How about this? 12:25:26 (As in, aesthetically.) 12:25:48 Looks like a jumbled mess 12:26:02 Could work 12:28:16 Hmm. 12:28:27 `echo (20120516T132344) Abc def quux. 12:28:30 ​(20120516T132344) Abc def quux. 12:28:35 Ugh, that's just so ugly though. 12:28:41 The hash is nicer. But even that's suboptimal. 12:28:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:29:11 Hi Phantom_Hoover. Do you have an opinion on the quote identifier issue? 12:29:12 elliott, does it break on the hyphendashes, or the colons, or both? 12:29:21 Taneb: Both. 12:29:29 Hmm 12:29:34 Obviously quotes should be allowed in identifiers. 12:29:38 (I love you for "hyphendashes".) 12:29:46 (But it's "HYPHEN-MINUS".) 12:29:59 Would we outlaw the classic int to_be_or_not_to_be? 12:30:02 Hyphenminogrives. 12:30:04 (Dammit, I knew it was two of them, but which one) 12:30:20 Or veniVidiVici :: IO Bool? 12:30:54 NO -GOD 12:32:05 main = do {x <- veniVidiVici; if x then return () else putStrLn "alea iacta est" >> main} 12:32:57 -!- Lumpio_ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 12:35:48 Phantom_Hoover: But seriously. :'( 12:36:19 Obviously you should be allowed to have quotes in identifiers, otherwise Haskellers couldn't pretend to be mathematicians 12:36:19 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:36:23 nooooooooooooooooo 12:36:35 my wicker burn!!! 12:36:38 em 12:36:49 *wicke-- OK that's too entertaining to correct. 12:37:34 -!- elliott has joined. 12:37:49 check logs for wicker burn 12:39:10 yubnjkm , 12:39:24 12:36:19: Obviously you should be allowed to have quotes in identifiers, otherwise Haskellers couldn't pretend to be mathematicians 12:39:29 Phantom_Hoover: one day im punch you 12:39:38 -!- nortti has joined. 12:39:47 Taneb: let's punch Phantom_Hoover 12:39:49 aha but how can you punch hoover 12:39:56 your fist will just get hoovered 12:40:25 ill punch from inside the bag 12:41:14 bag is reinforced anti-punch bag 12:42:06 my punch sis too scrtorng 12:42:13 -GOD 12:43:18 We could just take him to Glasgow 12:43:24 And let the natives deal with him 12:43:45 (People from Hexham are immune to Glasgow. We even have a train that goes there) 12:43:49 NO that is INHUMANE 12:44:23 Says the ghostly vacuum cleaner 12:45:02 wait yes you ALSO cannot punch me unless your fists are DRENCHED IN HOLY WATER 12:45:08 Taneb: I like the way you think. Yr promoted. 12:45:47 Phantom_Hoover, I'm technically possibly catholic. I have access to Holy Water. 12:47:49 My cousin was astonished that I haven't been confirmed. 12:47:54 XD 12:47:59 Neither have I 12:48:05 You're just so Catholic, Phantom_Hoover! 12:48:52 It appears Misfile is doing a Christmas arc 12:49:54 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:58:00 -!- elliott has joined. 13:12:28 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:59:40 Wait doesn't everyone have access to holy water? 13:59:57 You can buy it at gift shops at pligrimage sites. 14:00:04 *pilgrimage 14:02:09 >> 14:02:10 << 14:02:15 alongside pheromones 14:02:25 Is Hexham a pilgrimage site? 14:02:30 I DON'T THINK SO 14:02:41 it is for monks of esolang 14:02:55 Just head for Ireland, it's not that far. 14:03:02 Lindesfarne's closer 14:03:23 Phantom_Hoover: I *am* Ireland on toast. 14:03:31 *You're* the angel fraud, right? House. 14:03:38 *Exoskeleton*, y'all. 14:03:50 it pains me to want to use the words monks of esolang when i am not really 14:03:51 We are all happy *campers*! 14:03:58 Woo the *excellent minister* for Olympics! 14:04:08 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:04:34 Supremum is like and *what's* effervescent? 14:05:01 Phantom_Hoover: Are *you* OK? 14:05:22 Phantom_Hoover is not one *bubble*. 14:05:28 Phantom_Hoover is many *fingers*. 14:05:49 Taneb: It's okay to *burn* without fumes. 14:06:20 I'm *dead* porcupine. 14:07:04 Well, shucks, *gargoyles*. I'm business endeavour. 14:09:02 whenever i try to use some "filter" on my next chat post, i find a reluctance form to post anything meaningful or substantial 14:09:38 filter in this sense being something like put * around a random word 14:10:03 `quote 14:10:03 `quote 14:10:04 `quote 14:10:05 `quote 14:10:07 `quote 14:10:12 162) It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." 14:10:15 838) i saw Godspeed You! Black Emperor live it is hard to tell when the soundcheck ends and the set begins 14:10:17 768) the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold 14:10:20 505) You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug? 14:10:25 641) But wait what if I'm using a quantum computer <-- there is "quantum entropy". it's the same except no one understands it. 14:11:13 768 or 505, I think. 14:11:17 itidus21: Phantom_Hoover: Duke it out. 14:11:50 * Phantom_Hoover punches itidus with MATHS 14:12:30 * itidus21 /me 14:13:09 what? the? 14:13:36 MATHS stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin 14:13:36 kmc: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:13:57 Malvern Armadale Toorak Hawthorn South Yarra 14:16:47 http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/Maps/Routes/GIFs/6_Frankston.gif -- hawksburn? whatever 14:17:44 :O 14:17:56 so i got one wrong 14:18:02 that's incredible 14:18:06 i must tell my train/math nerd friends 14:19:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:20:18 the melbourne metropolitan railway map is really dumb 14:20:33 all the lines are the same color 14:21:44 the 2 colors indicates the ticket zones. basically there is the zone 1 in the middle and zone 2 on the outside.. there used to be 3 until a few years ago 14:21:54 yeah 14:23:33 but it's much more common (and useful) to indicate zones with area shading, and use the line colors themselves to indicate service patterns 14:24:06 heh 14:25:25 as for tickets here, they're trying to make this new fast system but it's a bit of a blunder 14:25:25 as on the London or Paris maps for example 14:28:36 life gets kinda boring when you have no money 14:30:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:30:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:32:08 I've got relatives in Melbourne 14:32:37 I *am* Melbourne (hold the toast). 14:32:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:32:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:33:16 talking about tickets reminds me of the places i've been, and times i've gone shopping etc 14:39:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:40:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:42:31 I think English is an awful global language, but for now we're stuck with it 14:42:37 Or at least I am 14:43:42 I was going to reply in Lojban but then I forgot all the very small amount of Lojban I knew. 14:44:38 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:44:51 Lojban would be a brilliant global language except no-one speaks it 14:45:26 it wouldn't really be that brilliant 14:45:31 but it might be amusing at least 14:50:27 -!- cswords has joined. 15:07:08 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:14:01 Hey guys, I have a Hackage account now! 15:15:13 oh dear god 15:15:16 we're doomed 15:15:44 :{P 15:16:07 When I feel evil I grow a kinda sucky moustache 15:22:58 -!- myndzi has joined. 15:25:27 Taneb: That... 15:26:45 }. Does that make you feel better? 15:27:05 ^celebrate 15:27:05 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 15:27:06 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 15:27:06 /< |\ /´\ | /< /< /| | |\ /´\ /'\ 15:27:06 /\ (_|¯`\ 15:27:06 (_| |_) |_) 15:38:23 fungot 15:38:24 Taneb: that's pretty useless in a language without a purpose, no?) ' eq?' instead. beats germany. 15:38:42 ^style iwcs 15:38:42 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 15:38:52 fungot, what do you think of my hackage account? 15:38:53 Taneb: a strange fantasy land on the threshold of the door. expressed the opinon that if anyone knows the place, but it has given me a splitting the profits for the nigerian government! 16:05:30 That's actually a surprisingly cogent response. 16:34:16 fungot: Why are you being cogent. Stop being cogent. You're not built to be cogent. 16:34:16 fizzie: i know! i'll assemble a prize, finance minister, the new tech to build a time like! 16:35:48 fizzie: Uh oh. He's... ASSEMBLING A PRIZE. 16:49:59 hello 16:54:37 Hello 16:58:42 hi 16:58:55 we are all in agreement then 16:59:20 im not 16:59:24 -!- kallisti has joined. 16:59:27 fungot: I love you 16:59:27 kallisti: no, the boy, do i? jolly good. nothing has a bite that big to you, our helpful. ' is phone is still workin' class, guv. 16:59:29 -!- kallisti has left. 17:01:29 fungot 17:01:29 itidus21: there's the internet, adam. it could just apply a jolly good. nothing has a bite that big, long turn, we be evadin' pursuit, you're sorely mistaken, my good man. all hobbits are hard a starboard, helmsman! 17:01:52 wonders if adam apply is a pun 17:02:03 fizzie, I think fungot is jolly good 17:02:03 Taneb: you... you're jane, my experience here's ' elped me decide on a career too! 17:02:27 itidus21, probably a coincidence, seeing as IWC has a character called Adam 17:02:55 indeed. fungot doesn't understand a word i'm saying. 17:02:55 itidus21: do i look like ben, you dolt conjure a fireball the likes of you, going, monty. a shipment of arms! solidarity will prevail over any opposition! we shall i? 17:05:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:43 fungot 17:11:43 itidus21: our own! how close a friend, is a pint," replied merry, " never heard the news from the east of paris. made of plaster 17:14:31 -!- calamari has joined. 17:17:47 fungot 17:17:47 elliott: you are not evil, terrible things are happening. this is the lost plateau marked on the map, and ye be havin' the muscles to account for die increased mass, it is. 17:19:10 "this is the lost plateau marked on the map" 17:19:20 Inspiring :') 17:19:28 ^style 17:19:28 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs* jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 17:24:08 Fingeres 17:24:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:29:35 I like how it goes from pirate to german in less than 7 words 17:34:14 elliott: i agree. a pint is quite a friend 17:34:28 ^style iwcs 17:34:29 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 17:34:34 oh 17:34:36 never read that 17:36:53 there's also 17:36:56 ^style iwca 17:36:56 Not found. 17:36:58 ^style iwc 17:36:58 Not found. 17:37:01 oh 17:37:05 only iwcs is in 17:42:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:55:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:55:40 -!- nortti has joined. 17:58:45 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:19:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:37 http://www.retroprogramming.com/2009/07/perverse-code-deviant-forth.html 18:56:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:56:37 @messages 18:56:38 elliott said 9h 51m 9s ago: I found your terminal. 18:57:18 hi 18:57:56 g'day 18:58:08 : ) 19:02:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:02:07 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:03:58 -!- nortti has joined. 19:11:15 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:48:53 -!- AnotherTest has left. 20:27:21 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:29:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:29:47 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 20:40:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:10:21 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:43:09 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 22:27:20 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:44:28 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:46:10 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has joined. 22:47:40 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:54:37 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:00 fungot! 23:01:00 Phantom_Hoover: the very air, with minnesota jones, and i'll make the best, a minor thing, but laughed it off one of the marx of elven philosophy. 23:17:27 fungot! 23:17:27 Phantom_Hoover: a bit of a noble way of the most secure and well-guarded buildings in the world, we should at the way you stopped the orcs are nearby forest logging in a sensitive wilderness. they're a regular letters back in the 1950s 23:17:28 fungot! 23:17:28 Phantom_Hoover: i should probably forget alchemy. two or three, my dear, not gilderoy lockhart again, too literal with the same of your cat 23:17:28 fungot! 23:17:29 Phantom_Hoover: no, a real, that's the beauty! bends over to touch the frog, the rake, and the enormous craniums? we never seem to be having a bit of a noble way of the most secure and well-guarded buildings in the world, we should at my word install the patch of light a star. they're too uncouth point, followed by the gerund if necessary, bein' too hot, but would also knock back a beer, get big mad, all is not lost. several we 23:21:50 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:22:10 J is pretty interesting language 23:22:11 oh no i broke him 23:26:32 -!- monqy has joined. 23:29:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:30:03 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:36:42 -!- nortti has joined. 23:37:54 -!- augur has joined. 23:42:14 -!- scottj has joined. 23:55:01 -!- mad has joined. 23:55:06 -!- mad has changed nick to madbr. 2012-05-17: 00:09:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:12:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:24:03 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:39:58 -!- augur has joined. 00:43:24 bleh, just accidentally deleted my entire email inbox 00:43:49 I have a backup from February, and there hasn't been much important since; but it was my work email not my home email, which has been backed up more recently by the work people, I hope 00:44:17 oops 00:44:28 meanwhile, something is creating files in my home directory that look like PEM certificates (but are the wrong length), and have names that look suspiciously like uninitialized memory 00:46:15 I doubt there's anyone around to restore it from backup at quarter to 2, though 00:56:58 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:58:23 -!- augur has joined. 01:08:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:10:12 -!- augur has joined. 01:34:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:44:16 hmm, are there any asm interps? 01:44:32 as in, not machine code interps, but things that interp the actual asm itself without assembling it? 01:52:02 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:53:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:54:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:54:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:59:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:59:45 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:59:53 -!- DH____ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:13 ais523: what's the point 02:00:28 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:00:57 something I saw in the Oracle v Google court case 02:01:07 apparently Oracle have a patent so badly worded it probably doesn't apply to anything 02:01:14 I was wondering if it might apply to an asm interp 02:01:22 I can't think of much point for having one of those either, though… 02:02:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:04:59 haha 02:05:06 ais523: create an esolang based on patent claims 02:05:12 heh 02:05:17 most illegal esolang ever 02:05:20 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:09:00 what current patent is the most ridiculous one anyways? 02:42:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:44:03 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:44:17 I don't know 02:44:25 Maybe all of them 02:44:30 ais523: x SUES y 02:44:32 SETTLE 02:44:39 hmm 02:46:37 -!- itidus20 has joined. 02:50:18 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:51:43 -!- itidus22 has joined. 02:54:32 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:00:54 needs to have one particularly egregious patent owned by a notably sue happy company 03:06:15 the problem is that patents keep expiring 03:10:04 true 03:10:15 the lzw one was a winner 03:10:33 what about the ones on mp3%? 03:15:19 -!- itidus21 has joined. 03:17:55 -!- itidus20 has joined. 03:18:13 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:21:25 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:34:44 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:43:36 madbr: i choose the patent on a mouse. how can you patent a freakin' mouse? 04:00:28 dunno how you'll make a programming language with that? :D 04:00:51 quintopia: it took a lot of work to get it that tiny 04:01:08 quintopia: I mean, look at the little eyes 04:01:10 and the tiny feet 04:01:15 that's serious creativity there 04:02:07 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:02:20 coppro: you mean serious stupidity? a modern engineer totally could have put the same functionality in half the space with lower energy consumption and heat output. and it would probably last longer too. 04:02:32 no way man 04:02:44 how would it eat all the cheese? 04:04:30 i wouldn't call that a "feature" 04:06:11 come back when your robot mouse is self-healing and self-replicating 04:06:50 self-replicating using a feedstock of garbage and air 04:06:54 -!- itidus21 has joined. 04:11:26 kmc: it doesn't have to be self-healing. it just needs to not break at all before *average mouse lifespan* 04:11:50 also, that self-replicating thing? also not a feature. stealing food from humans? not feature. 04:12:08 i don't know who you think wrote the requirements document for a mouse 04:13:43 a blind idiot god 04:14:01 although 04:14:12 the scientists who gengineered and patented a mouse 04:14:20 probably also had a requirements document 04:23:07 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:24:01 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has joined. 04:28:45 I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". 04:29:08 pikhq: to what? 04:29:29 To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse. 04:31:26 yeah. it's weird. 04:32:22 `addquote I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". pikhq: to what? To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse. 04:32:25 853) I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". pikhq: to what? To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse. 04:33:18 ais523: a keyboard should be enough for anyone. 04:35:23 Keyboard is good for many things. For some things it helps to use both keyboard and mouse together 04:40:09 -!- itidus20 has joined. 04:41:20 zzo38: like what? everything a mouse does, something else can do it better. drawing? wacom tablet. FPS aiming? joystick/thumbstick. every user interface ever? if you can't use the keyboard for them, they should be redesigned. 04:41:55 3D design? 3D "ball" controller 04:42:21 still beats touch interface 04:43:40 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:48:04 quintopia: O, well, yes those things work too. And, yes, if you cannot use the keyboard for some interface, it should probably be redesigned to work with keyboard. The purpose for the mouse is selecting a point on the screen, is what I intended to mean. 04:48:50 zzo38: selecting a point on the screen is easier with a wacom tablet 04:48:56 Anything where you need to select a point on the screen work by mouse, other things work by keyboard. Sometimes you may want to enter coordinates or other ways to identify something on screen by keyboard too. 04:49:29 quintopia: O, I didn't know that. 04:54:47 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:55:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:30 For example, in Astrolog, all functions can be accessed by keyboard, but you can push right mouse button to click on the world map and set the current location to where you clicked, and left mouse button to draw on the current chart. It is better than many programs which lack this kinds of keyboard interface. 05:00:51 In MegaZeux, the DOS version you could click on the menu to activate an option, or use keys on keyboard. The mouse could not be used to select a command in new version. Some people wanted to restore it, but I never intended to restore it; however I have improved both keyboard and mouse function of MegaZeux. Now all three mouse buttons can be used, and there are many more keyboard commands, and can be entered more quickly than before. 05:02:51 Dialog boxes in MegaZeux were, to activate a command button, you have to click it or tab over to it, but I have changed it so that you can also activate a command button by pushing the corresponding function key on the keyboard. 05:03:43 Do you agree? 05:03:57 Disagree? 05:04:01 Neither agree nor disagree? 05:05:18 yeah keyboards are grate for the middle and late part of the learning curve 05:05:26 and for non-spatial stuff 05:06:14 i agree 05:08:37 -!- itidus21 has joined. 05:11:25 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:20:13 How can you get USB device to emit infrared signals? 05:21:24 light it on fire 05:21:37 it will emit infrared light! :D 05:33:41 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 05:40:35 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:40:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:41:39 No, I mean signals, such as for TV, VCR, DVD, etc 05:42:52 If I make function in Haskell to make [x, y, z] into (x . y . z) and another function for make [x, y, z] into (z . y . x) then what should these functions be called? 05:42:52 zzo38: I imagine you could make something yourself out of a microcontroller and infrared diode 05:43:19 zzo38: foldCompose and foldComposeReverse, perhaps? 05:43:26 they're just special cases of folds 05:43:29 ais523: OK. 05:43:52 ais523: Yes I do know they are special case of folds. 05:44:16 so it makes sense to use a name that reflects that 05:45:44 I just don't want it too long, such as maybe "compose" or "composes" or "foldC" or I don't know what else 05:51:37 Maybe another name do you know? 05:51:55 Is there any existing libraries with such functions? 05:52:25 I intended to use with any category, so you have :: (Foldable t, Category c) => t (c x x) -> c x x 05:53:54 -!- augur has joined. 05:54:20 Such as there is already function called "fold" in Data.Foldable which is similar but for monoid 06:03:13 But there should be forward and backward. 06:03:28 I could use "foldCompose" and "foldComposeReverse" but it seem slightly long to me 06:29:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:30:02 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 06:32:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:33:07 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 06:33:59 Package "chalmers-lava2000" has a similar function under the name "compose", but only one direction. It also has "composeN" which is like the function "church" in my program. 06:42:04 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:47:06 -!- itidus20 has joined. 06:49:21 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:17:58 -!- itidus22 has joined. 07:19:43 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:32:31 -!- itidus21 has joined. 07:35:38 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:40:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:04 -!- nortti has joined. 09:19:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:21:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:22:13 Hello! 09:26:43 Hi 09:26:50 Taneb, did you see the update? 09:26:52 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:27:11 DD: Ascend more casually? 09:27:13 Yeah 09:27:38 -!- nortti has joined. 09:33:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:42:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:46:14 -!- jix has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:46:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 09:49:13 -!- jix has joined. 10:01:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:46:43 https://github.com/mroth/lolcommits#readme 11:07:10 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:14:43 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:21:14 -!- derdon has joined. 11:35:20 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:47:33 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:16:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:19:24 -!- nooga has joined. 12:26:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:34:17 -!- elliott has joined. 12:35:09 hi 12:36:47 hi 12:40:14 hi 12:43:50 hi 12:44:33 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/fqn9e/any_of_you_ever_been_shot_what_exactly_does_that/c1hwy10?context=5#c1hwy10 12:47:14 OH YOU 12:52:31 Getting shot with a handgun is surprisingly survivable, apparently. 12:53:11 Phantom_Hoover: Whooooooooooo 12:53:13 ooooooo 12:53:15 dude 12:53:17 ooooo cough splutter hack oooo 12:53:17 i read the link 12:53:19 obviously 12:53:22 sh. 12:53:30 i can't improve on that 12:53:37 Phantom_Hoover: I thought you were assuming he, like, blacked out and woke up in hospital or something. 12:53:40 there's nothing i can say 12:53:41 I don't know, you're Scottish. 12:53:44 Scots are morons. 12:53:52 dude in scotland we don't black out 12:53:53 I can't predict their thought patterns. 12:53:56 Phantom_Hoover: Oh. 12:53:59 we grab the blood and shove it back in 12:54:00 Do you just die instead? 12:57:44 -!- derdon_ has joined. 12:58:29 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:58:35 I think Phantom_Hoover just died. 12:58:48 I died quite a long time ago. 12:59:13 Oh. Right. 12:59:14 I mean when have I ever been just 'Hoover'? 12:59:18 More evidence of Scot weakness. 13:00:18 unfortunately, the better someone is at killing, the less likelihood you can stay on their good side 13:00:35 it's called the depressing paradox of doom 13:00:42 oops not paradox 13:01:13 just.. depressing consequenece of doom 13:02:02 basically, putting what i said in english, 13:02:36 a person who shoots at you for looking at them the wrong way will be a better shot than a person who shoots at you due to your attempt to burgle their home 13:02:54 -!- derdon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:02:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:03:01 Deep thinking from itidus21. 13:05:15 it's the sort of thing you think about when you're conflict avoidant 13:06:01 one post too many 13:08:36 -!- derdon has joined. 13:20:19 -!- Gregor has set topic: Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language P. 13:20:29 ... 13:20:30 Dahell 13:20:43 -!- Gregor has set topic: Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, for that language please visit www.perl.org or #perl - logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 13:20:52 That's wayyyy too retro 13:21:54 -!- elliott has set topic: HIowp; welcome toj ie#esoteirc its eosnaletierc progaming lnauges odeisgn dpeojylment - jojekaengurne prlk jeoirt.org #perkljsd - logpsje http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 13:22:15 Gregor: i improve 13:22:52 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric-en for non-Finnish discussion | HIowp; welcome toj ie#esoteirc its eosnaletierc progaming lnauges odeisgn dpeojylment - jojekaengurne prlk jeoirt.org #perkljsd - logpsje http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 13:24:00 XD 13:24:07 Kas, tervehdys. 13:24:25 daïïaka lopëetumenos 13:24:59 Päivää, elliott. Pelliott. 13:42:12 elliott: mitä daïïaka lopëetumenos tarkoittaa? 13:42:52 nortti: Täouvä pitëmaani. 13:43:19 elliott: mitä kieltä se oikein on? 13:43:34 ion: What the hell is nortti saying? It's sure not Finnish. 13:43:57 elliott: it is. I say 13:44:26 *said "what language is that written in" 13:51:45 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:53:30 elliott: I think he’s trying to talk in pseudo-Finnish but doesn’t actually understand Finnish. 13:53:51 ion: How disruptive. We don't need to waste our time with such silliness. 13:53:57 We're here to talk about esolangs! 13:57:32 eikö kukaan muu ole #esoteri-en kanavalla? 13:59:10 Eätii mistaan eëina kotuä. 14:00:27 tuo näyttää eestiltä 14:01:31 Olipakerrannainenvenusjonkaruumismuotoinen. 14:03:02 Onceuponatimewerewomanvenuswhosecorpseshape? 14:03:38 Hilipati hilipati hilipati hillaa hilipati hilipati hilipampaa 14:04:20 Onceuponatimeawomanvenuswhosecorpseshaped. 14:04:28 whoops 14:04:36 Onceuponatimetherewasawomanvenuswhosecorpseshaped. 14:05:22 Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft 14:06:25 Slkfhdskjakgdhfjslghdg 14:08:20 `words --finnish 50 14:08:24 taisi henemältänsä iloiturvalla tuloero tustamilta uupistamme tiuksemme kehkumiensä nelleni suosioivoittämän lämyrkyttä kattisesi saampinnoitsemme alhailemmassa sillenne agisesi hajoisemaaville tiukoon jylisempiä kasensa reintumallaan änköhän kyttiloitteellisemmalle aloisimmastu tihkiatyttänsä 14:14:47 wut 14:14:56 o__Ô 14:15:07 `words --finnish --swedish 20 14:15:10 föraktivt peisimme muismenteissani pykälla löytyks fysioniemme frättadein keillt olättamme saiståt vansa straahtuvamp algodwiniviss koller budademo fånight källdes afrisevistummarkterapolt sädetsään biograbelt 14:15:34 Randomly generated words huh 14:15:39 Those... kind of 14:15:40 er 14:15:40 Afrisevistummarkterapolt. 14:15:47 They throw my brain into a weird loop 14:15:54 Stop DOSing my brain 14:18:50 jjgieajjjgbi9eeealllnneee 14:18:53 im finn 14:19:01 `words --finnish 10 14:19:05 ilmallentiallamien malta aloittumalla optalisimmiltä labamastamaastamiksen hawkinne jäärisempimeto kiehtivastaattavia entäviävineeksesi tuneillenittamassa 14:19:22 It isn't very good at vowel harmony. 14:19:28 `pastlog markov assumption 0 14:19:32 wtf I just read 14:19:42 Kray: Finnish! 14:20:00 No output. 14:20:05 `pastlog markov assumption 14:20:16 2011-08-26.txt:20:09:35: Given that what you get from an n-gram is (n-1) words of context, I think it's pretty safe bet to say that the Markov assumption (of order n-1) will hold for most things you do with them. 14:20:31 fizzie: Oh come on. 14:20:32 `pastlog markov assumption 14:20:39 2011-08-26.txt:20:09:35: Given that what you get from an n-gram is (n-1) words of context, I think it's pretty safe bet to say that the Markov assumption (of order n-1) will hold for most things you do with them. 14:20:43 How many things involving the Markov assumption can you say, you speech recognition researcher? 14:20:45 `pastlog markov assumption 14:20:52 2011-09-26.txt:16:54:56: tehporPekaC: There's an alternative solution which will always hit the target length, and thanks to the Markov assumption really shouldn't affect the distribution of the last characters of a word: when generating a word of length K with trigrams, first generate K-2 characters so that you ignore all "xy " entries. For the penultimate character, only consider such trigrams "xyz" for 14:21:04 `pastlog markov assumption 14:21:10 2011-09-26.txt:13:03:19: CakeProphet: Certainly there are different ways to do language models; I just can't offhand figure out how to make a (sensible) language model that would use n-grams but not have the (n-1)-order Markov assumption. 14:21:57 I say it a lot, yes. 14:22:01 `pastlog markov assumption 14:22:09 2011-09-26.txt:16:54:56: tehporPekaC: There's an alternative solution which will always hit the target length, and thanks to the Markov assumption really shouldn't affect the distribution of the last characters of a word: when generating a word of length K with trigrams, first generate K-2 characters so that you ignore all "xy " entries. For the penultimate character, only consider such trigrams "xyz" for 14:22:12 Oh fuck it. 14:22:18 `pastelogs markov assumption 14:22:25 Potkin teidän apina sitten käyttänyt vuohi. 14:22:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11442 14:22:27 go hackego! 14:22:39 2011-12-23.txt:09:46:31: "säänellaan" -- broken vowel harmony 1, Markov assumption 0. 14:22:47 Thank you, HackEgo. (No thank you for the broken encoding.) 14:47:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:57:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:57:38 Hello 14:59:13 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:59:31 hi 15:00:07 Well, that package I've been working on for so long is on Hackage now 15:00:14 Oh dear. 15:00:32 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/family-tree 15:00:33 Taneb: OtherLicense? 15:00:39 I found it in the recently-uploaded log. 15:00:56 MIT. Apparently older versions of Cabal have issues with that 15:01:00 You should really put version constraints on those dependencies. And use cereal instead of binary. (And a license that isn't Other :P) 15:01:06 Ah. 15:01:25 What advantages does Cereal have over Binary? 15:01:29 FWIW, BSD3 is basically isomorphic to MIT and supported by every version of Cabal. But it's no big deal (except for people that'll be scared away by seeing OtherLicense). 15:02:07 Taneb: Not really all that many, admittedly, since I see that binary just got a new release (previously it hadn't been updated since 2009). But it, uh, supports IEEE-format floats. 15:02:11 (And uses strict ByteStrings.) 15:02:31 OK, let me look at this code. 15:02:45 This module is for Family Trees. 15:02:45 It's got lenses, which are pretty cool. 15:02:45 I would use "Data.Binary" to do saving and loading. 15:02:47 is this a poem? 15:02:49 *Is 15:02:56 Module : $Header$ 15:03:01 You're meant to put the module name here :P 15:03:04 The syllables are wrong 15:03:17 (But I don't bother with that first header block, it does nothing.) 15:03:17 And I was panicking about an exam when I uploaded it! 15:03:45 And I mix lazy and strict types wantonly 15:03:49 Taneb: Well, your code has gotten a lot better than when you wrote that Latin program :P 15:03:58 Yup! 15:04:04 I'm a bit worried about "Lens FamilyTree Person", however. 15:04:15 I suspect personLens does not obey the lens laws in all circumstances. 15:04:31 How so? 15:04:36 Well, I suspect what you really want is Lens FamilyTree (Maybe Person). 15:04:55 In line with mapLens/intMapLens. 15:04:56 That probably goes with all the lenses 15:05:02 :/ 15:05:10 Taneb: Well, it might behave oddly when you pass an invalid identifier, although actually I think it should obey all the lens laws. 15:05:22 (Maybe Person) has the advantage that you can use the lens to DELETE SOMEONE FROM EXISTENCE. 15:06:02 I thought about that, thought it would be hard to code, avoided it, and later realised it'd be easy to code 15:06:15 But it's marked as unstabe, so I guess I can make changes like that? 15:06:20 It's easier if you use lookup rather than HM.(!). 15:06:26 You can make changes like that even if it isn't unstable. 15:06:28 Just follow the PVP. 15:06:41 (Which... admittedly you haven't so far, since your version should have more digits.) 15:07:00 Taneb: You can write (fmap f $ x) as (f <$> x) (with Control.Applicative). 15:07:25 Or Data.Functor, iirc 15:07:31 Ah, yes, it's in there too. 15:07:50 You could also write your Family get as Family <$> get <*> get <*> get <*> fmap ModifiedJulianDay get <*> fmap ModifiedJulianDay get <*> get. 15:07:58 But obviously you lose the field namse. 15:07:59 *names 15:08:26 I wrote it so I could panic and completely change the data types later with ease? 15:08:39 I'm not complaining, just suggesting :P 15:08:54 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:08:58 And I'm rationalizing rather than refuting 15:09:04 I'm also running out of battery 15:09:25 Other than that, it looks good to me, although I'm dubious of the partial pattern-matches in add{Person,Family,Event}; you might also like to use lenses for the records themselves, with data-lens-template, so you can avoid Haskell's ugliness when modifying record values. 15:10:12 What partial pattern matches? 15:10:17 Oh, those partial pattern matches 15:10:20 let ((n,_):_) = dropWhile (uncurry (==)) $ 15:10:20 zip [1..] $ IM.keys $ families familyTree 15:10:30 I don't believe this works if families FamilyTree is empty. 15:10:32 *familyTree 15:10:49 Which is odd, because I don't see why you shouldn't be able to add a family to an empty family tree. 15:11:44 By the way, I would suggest doing 15:11:49 newtype ID = ID Int 15:11:57 and then using an export list and doing ID, ... so you don't export a constructor. 15:12:16 That way, ID acts as an abstract key, and people can't do funny business like making up their own IDs out of nowhere. 15:12:22 Yeah, it fails 15:12:43 (Although you still want to use Maybe for the Lens, since you can delete things and hold on to the key.) 15:12:47 Damn... 15:13:04 First thing to fix for 0.1.1! 15:13:32 And I've run out of things to complain about^W^Wsuggest! 15:14:47 Yay! 15:22:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:27:10 -!- itidus20 has joined. 15:30:51 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:13:27 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:26:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:32:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:12 @tell monqy Remind me not to stairdance packs of gnolls. 16:33:12 Consider it noted. 16:33:22 Wait, I thought this was /query lambdabot. 16:33:26 Oh well, it worked. 16:45:07 -!- trout has changed nick to const. 17:03:47 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:04:06 -!- kmc has joined. 17:10:30 -!- augur has joined. 17:11:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:26:59 -!- rvchangue has joined. 17:52:17 How many people in here are English and how many are Finnish and how many neither or both? 17:52:30 <-- australia 17:52:47 That's a lie, he's Finnish. 17:53:25 itidus20 *is* Australia. 17:54:26 <-- australiae 17:54:30 RAW >>> :barjavel.freenode.net NOTICE fungot :*** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server <<< 17:54:34 How rude. 17:57:08 Hey, you're not permitted in there fungot. It's restricted. You'll 17:57:09 be deactivated for sure.. 17:59:26 It's not something it used to do. 18:00:29 Don't call me a mindless philosopher fungot, you overweight glob of grease! 18:02:14 Sadly, fungot does not support SASL at the moment. 18:02:46 i had to say it anyway 18:03:10 fizzie: Pick a different server? 18:06:03 Servers that say the same: lindbohm, kornbluth, holmes, calvino. It seems to be a thing. 18:08:13 -!- nooga has joined. 18:08:24 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 18:09:20 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:09:37 -!- itidus22 has joined. 18:10:05 -!- itidus20 has quit (*.net *.split). 18:10:05 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 18:10:40 -!- itidus20 has joined. 18:11:10 It says the same thing for this box I'm internetting from when connecting over v4, but not when doing it over (tunneled) v6. I suppose my ISP has just been too freenode-abusey lately, or something. 18:12:28 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:12:39 Incidentally, according to the FAQ -- http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nocloakonjoin -- doing SASL will fix the "cloak isn't always set before autojoin". Not sure this came up when it was (recently) discussed. 18:16:54 (I don't think my bouncer does SASL either.) 18:17:34 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:19:45 "Any way to use sasl with bip? No.", added to the bip FAQ exactly eight days ago. How coincidental. 18:19:48 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:20:07 Heh. 18:21:15 Glad I have no desire to cloak. 18:22:08 I don't care about the cloak. 18:22:16 But I would like to connect at all. 18:22:59 Which I no longer can. (Well, except over v6. But fungot doesn't support IPv6 either, since the SOCK fingerprint doesn't.) 18:23:19 fizzie: Are you sure another server won't work? 18:23:28 Anyway, nortti whined about this a few days ago, ask him what he did. 18:23:55 Then reprogram the SOCK fingerprint. 18:24:02 I tried five, I'm not sure I can bother to try more. 18:24:14 He identified using SASL, if I remember correctly. 18:25:12 fizzie: Do you have a VPS? 18:25:16 Try running your bouncer there. 18:26:03 I could do that, that's true. 18:28:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:28:50 I wonder if any of the sensible bouncers do SASL. I know ZNC has a module, but I can't recall if that was one of the sensible ones. On a quick glance it seemed slightly overengineered. (Browser-based administration support, plugins in four languages?) 18:29:14 ZNC is what Vorpal uses, so don't. 18:29:26 I used miau a while back. But I sort of doubt it supports SASL. 18:33:20 Oh, also the ZNC sasl module is for doing SASL authentication of the clients, not SASL identification towards the server that freenode has. I guess I'll just go via the VPS. 18:35:29 fizzie: What's a nice way of saying max(n, 0) without using max? 18:35:37 (Just basic arithmetic.) 18:37:17 (n+abs(n))/2? 18:37:41 fizzie: That... might work, but it'd be done with floats. 18:37:58 (There is (integer) div and mod, however.) 18:39:22 For fixed-size integers, it of course has some overflow issues. 18:39:45 They're smal lintegers. 18:39:49 *small integers 18:39:58 Would floating-point rounding not come into play? I don't have an intuition for it. 18:40:10 (Also I'd sort of prefer to avoid repeating n in the expression, but...) 18:48:00 THX FIZZIE 18:49:00 If n is a small integer, I would think all of n, abs(n), n+abs(n) and (n+abs(n))/2 would be exact even when done as floats. But of course that's just a guess. You could round the result to nearest integer (with any behaviour for 0.5-ish cases), I suppose. 18:49:37 fizzie: The repeating thing is just because 18:49:38 -{{#expr: ({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) / 2 round0}}px 18:49:39 isn't the prettiest. 18:49:53 -!- monqy has joined. 18:49:56 Especially as part of this line: 18:49:58 | {{ns:10}} = 18:50:07 hi 18:50:07 monqy: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:50:13 hi 18:51:33 Oh, it's some sort of a thing. I was wondering about the purpose. 18:54:26 I see it's got logic, so there's the obvious alternative of (n>0)*n, but that's repeated too. (And assumes > does what one would expect.) 18:55:23 I could use the string functions to check whether the first character of the result is -. :p 18:56:01 fizzie: I could always use #if with #expr if I was going down that route, anyway. 18:56:08 Oh, or just ifexpr. 18:58:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:00:21 fizzie: It doesn't work, for some reason. 19:00:37 max(0, 32 - 18) is coming out as 21. 19:01:00 Oh, wait. 19:01:09 I forgot to move the negation inside the bloody thing. 19:03:16 fizzie: Wait. 19:03:28 That isn't working at all, for some reason. 19:03:40 margin-top: {{#expr: -({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) / 2 round0}}px 19:03:42 is coming out as 19:03:46 margin-top: 6px 19:04:04 Oh. 19:04:07 I forgot the parens. :( 19:04:36 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 19:04:36 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:07:59 {{#expr: (-({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18)) / 2 round0}} 19:08:09 fizzie: This is coming out as 0 for height = 32. :( 19:08:29 Wait, that *is* 0. 19:08:34 Oh, I'm an idiot. 19:09:19 fizzie: OK, I have no idea what I want. 19:09:25 What do I want? 19:10:26 -!- nortti has joined. 19:12:17 fizzie: Look what I just did to NetHackWiki! http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Altar 19:13:42 Too late, I fixed it. Hopefully. 19:17:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:23:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:24:18 I don't know what you want, and looking at all those {{{}}}s makes me dizzy. But it looked like (-n+abs(n))/2, not the proper (n+abs(n))/2. 19:24:35 fizzie: Since when does abs(n) differ from abs(-n)? 19:24:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:20 (-5+abs(5))/2 != (5+abs(5))/2. 19:25:33 (For n=5.) 19:25:52 fizzie: Yes, but (-5+abs(-5))/2... 19:26:05 In this case, n = -m, so it's (-m+abs(-m))/2. 19:26:13 I shortened that to (-m+abs(m))/2 because it's bloody well long enough already. 19:26:33 Oh. Well, then. I didn't really know what "n" was. 19:26:42 Neither did I. 19:26:47 The final result is: 19:27:20 {{#expr: -((({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 22) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 22)) / 2) round0}} 19:27:38 i.e. -(((n-22)+abs(n-22))/2). 19:27:45 (Space to taste.) 19:36:23 -!- myndzi\ has quit. 19:36:29 -!- myndzi has joined. 19:40:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:48:00 I think the main female singer in BLR's latest video is a man. 20:01:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:02:15 -!- fungot has joined. 20:02:35 fizzie, selene? 20:03:35 "In Greek mythology, Selene (Greek Σελήνη [selɛ̌ːnɛː] 'moon'; Doric Σελάνα; Aeolic Σελάννα) was an archaic lunar deity and the daughter of the Titans Hyperion and Theia." 20:03:58 I forget the rationale. 20:04:09 Obviously I know what selene means. 20:05:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:06:10 They all have some sort of half-assed "logical" reason, like the webserver laptop's momus, "the god of satire, mockery, censure, writers, poets; a spirit of evil-spirited blame and unfair criticism" because, well, webserver. 20:08:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:39 my server is named Uranus-Hertz because diblert references 20:12:07 hi 20:12:07 Path-E-Tech Management 20:15:44 I have iris ("messenger of the gods") as the router box; hermes (another such guy + the winged sandals stuff) as the wifi access point, styx (the river between topside and the underworld) as the DSL modem (arguable which side is which), euterpe (sometimes muse of music) as the NAS disk-box, ares (god of war, obvsly) as the only laptop that can sensibly run games, and so on. 20:20:08 glapgor, gdeskgor, gwirgor, grandroidgor, ... and applejack. 20:21:05 Uranus-Hertz(), ratbert 20:21:15 hi 20:21:19 The N900 I called philotes, "personification of affection, sexual intercourse and friendship", since it's kind of a communication device. 20:21:27 -!- augur has joined. 20:21:39 what a great personification 20:22:47 The N-Gage was called "arkleseizure", but that's from the days of another naming scheme. 20:23:33 Does thingy no longer exist? 20:23:34 The mattress. 20:24:04 Zem. 20:24:15 Well, it survives as the domain name. 20:24:28 You killed it. :( 20:24:58 Phantom__Hoover: Tell fizzie he's awful. 20:24:58 I'm not sure if I had a box with that name. Did I? 20:25:01 monqy: Tell fizzie he's awful. 20:25:04 fizzie: The laptop server? 20:25:10 Oh, okay. 20:25:16 I forgotted. 20:25:16 fizzie, you are awful 20:25:19 You killed *and* forgot it? 20:25:26 Apparently. 20:25:32 dont worry, uranus-hertz can replace it 20:25:38 It's not even collecting dust somewhere? 20:25:42 Did you explode it. :( 20:25:54 My naming scheme is a) the best and b) woefully underutilised. 20:25:56 i trust nortti won't commit such a sin as to kill uranus-hertz 20:25:58 monqy: Gotta have those diblert references. 20:26:15 My laptop is named henry and my desktop is named vax. 20:26:25 If I get a Mac it will be called dyson. 20:26:39 If I get a Raspberry Pi it will be called Roomba. 20:26:54 Phantom__Hoover: Excuse me Roombas are not that small. 20:27:03 You'd want to name it after one of those itty-bitty handheld cleaner things. 20:27:09 I think I'm thinking of the novelty USB ones. 20:27:23 Roomba would be for a headless server. 20:27:32 Because it has no direct user interface. 20:27:37 http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/gift-gadgets/henry-hoover-desk-vacuum/30002970.html?utm_source=googleprod&utm_medium=gp&utm_campaign=gp_gifts&affil=thggps 20:27:38 oh 20:27:39 my 20:27:40 god 20:27:41 I don't think I've actually killed any hardware; it's just that when we moved I gave everything names from the new system. E.g. momus used to be colin. (Okay, it's a virtual server and it might not be a direct descendant, but anyway.) 20:27:45 Preferably a small one. 20:27:49 You know... like a tiny laptop server. 20:27:51 Sort of like a mattress. 20:27:55 Sort of like ZEM, fizzie! 20:28:07 Unfortunately those things don't have a snappy name. 20:28:10 fizzie: You can't rename computers!!!! 20:28:12 monqy: well I have fixed Uranus-Hertz 5 by now (it is Petium 100MHz machine with 40 MB of RAM from 1994) 20:28:21 It's like renaming people!!! 20:28:30 Phantom__Hoover: Which is illegal!!!!!! 20:28:36 Phantom__Hoover: Also, buy that thing. 20:29:05 i want to so much but its ten moneys 20:29:49 Phantom__Hoover: Hey, at least you'd be in possession of one Henry that hadn't had vomit on it! 20:29:54 fungot: Incidentally, do you actually work? 20:29:55 TOTALLY WORTH TEN MONEYS 20:29:55 fizzie: variable stacks: 1 mode: gabc defg, then. sorry, diamondie. 20:29:59 fungot: Okay, ...good. 20:30:00 fizzie: rant rant, n. as. word; akin to ofries. os. ever. pushd. with. a. function. 20:30:05 I don't think it works, fizzie. 20:30:15 Is it running on that VPS? 20:30:22 It's all grown up. 20:30:23 elliott, sobs 20:30:47 (My sister vomited on it when we were being rushed to Ireland at 80 miles an hour after my grandad died. 20:30:49 *) 20:30:50 No, it just speaks via it. The language models take probably a gigabyte. 20:30:59 Okay, it'd fit, but still 20:31:36 fizzie: *still. 20:31:39 You're welcome. 20:31:59 fungot, words! 20:32:00 Phantom__Hoover: good movie, not hollywood crap. 20:32:12 I forgot the space after the question mark when asking whether it works. :/ 20:32:14 Which movie would that be, fungot? 20:32:15 Phantom__Hoover: a subway line in boston. i should think 20:32:23 Haven't heard of that one. 20:32:44 I think it's one of those "indie" films. 20:33:28 I also think it's just nine hours raw from a camera left on a subway train in Boston. 20:33:51 But at least it's not Hollywood crap. 20:34:16 ^style 20:34:17 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 20:36:00 A Subway Line in Boston would not be a bad title for a pretentious indie film. 20:37:01 The Hollywood remake would be titled Subway Boston 20:37:22 No, it'd just be titled Subway. 20:37:58 With product placement from Subway. 20:38:18 In fact, it's just a two-hour-long advert for Subway, completely unrelated to the indie film. 20:38:30 In fact, it's not even a film. It's a two-hour-long TV advert for Subway. 20:38:37 I forget where I was going with this. 20:38:54 lol 20:38:57 Probably to a Subway. 20:39:01 Yes, right. 20:41:48 Having stolen some compromising documents, a man known as Fred (Lambert) takes refuge in the underground world of the Paris Métro. While the henchmen of the gangster owner of the documents chase him, Fred develops a relationship with the gangster's young trophy wife Héléna (Adjani) who is bored with her gilded-caged life. 20:41:48 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:41:49 Fred decides to form a band and perform in the subway. Among the band members are the Drummer (played by Jean Reno) and the Bass Player (Éric Serra). 20:42:10 Hmm, [[Roomba]] is in [[Category:Cat Toys]]. 20:43:19 Our cat just plain won't ride on the Roomba. 20:43:35 I suppose there's something wrong with it. 20:44:44 Cat/Roomba interaction videos were half the reason we got the silly thing. 20:50:58 I *am* a Cat/Roomba interaction video. 20:53:18 fizzie: Have you seen a dog? 20:56:40 fizzie: Have you seen a cat? 20:56:44 fizzie: Or a cog? 20:56:45 Dat. 20:59:14 -!- nooga has joined. 21:05:17 fizzie: ever heard of duct tape? 21:16:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:29:20 Note to self: plate on D:3. 21:30:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:18 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:33:17 * ion welliott 21:33:36 Soon I will probably die. 21:33:40 Maybe I should up Dex? 21:33:48 I didn't realise my starting Dex was so low. 21:34:02 (Also, I'm playing GhAK instead of GhMo because it's oldwon, and banishing is nice. Especially when you do it to grey rats.) 21:34:49 Thion. 21:35:26 (ion's secret plan is to get me to sit at this prompt forever.) 21:36:07 I don’t know, really. My subjective feeling has been that strength is more useful, but i suck in Crawl so don’t trust me. 21:36:39 Yay. 21:37:18 That was dumb. 21:37:32 Nooooo. 21:37:32 I’m surprised it hasn’t smitten you 1000 times already. 21:37:37 I think it has a timeout. 21:38:16 Wait, that's an orc priest, not a giant lewt. 21:38:17 newt. 21:38:27 lol 21:38:33 elewt 21:38:38 What should I do. :( 21:38:45 Read-id that scroll that I know isn't blinking? 21:39:15 What do you have? 21:39:21 Not much. 21:39:24 It's only D:4. 21:39:58 Try to get the O stuck in a throwing net, kill the rat and escape to < perhaps. 21:40:27 I'm not sure if you noticed the smiting orc priest and my 15 HP. 21:40:30 But okay. 21:40:49 Thion. 21:41:02 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti). 21:41:06 You should have stopped everything when the O got out of the net and rethink. :-P 21:41:18 I didn't even notice. :( 21:41:31 I hate it when I find gateways leading out of the Abyss early. 21:41:36 I like it when I get some free loot to start off with. 21:41:47 But I can't justify just wandering about the Abyss to myself if I have a way out. 21:42:00 What. 21:42:03 Oh. 21:42:06 Why am I in water? 21:42:13 Wow, that was embarrassing. 21:42:54 ion: :'( 21:43:30 nice 21:44:38 ion: You should try GhAK, it's super. 21:45:09 I guess that other scroll is recharging. 21:46:30 What a nice cloak. :( 21:48:30 ion: hjålp 21:54:15 ion: With ghouls, you rarely have to eat! 21:54:18 And when you do, you get HP for it. 21:54:21 And you can banish stuff! 21:55:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:58:04 ion: hjålp 21:59:40 The J is slow. Perhaps you can escape around it. 22:00:00 That puts me in a worse position to banish the ogre, though. 22:00:17 Bah. If I had a bit more piety, I could use Corrupt. 22:00:30 Do you know answer of this question? Is (fmap lower . lower . duplicate = duplicate . lower) supposed to be a law for comonad transformer or not? (also the similar question for monad transformer) 22:02:11 Phew. 22:02:52 Noooo. 22:02:54 Not again. 22:03:40 I like how Gretell sometimes announces my deaths slightly before they hit my screen. 22:04:49 Are you going to eat HP? 22:14:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:30:52 > group [3,3,1,3] 22:30:53 [[3,3],[1],[3]] 22:42:07 -!- nortti has joined. 22:47:13 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:02:00 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 23:05:47 meanwhile in ##crawl it has always sort of bothered me that i am not poop 23:08:08 Do you know how to eat HP? 23:08:34 (HP = hit points, I guess?) 23:08:45 To eat HP, you just explode. 23:24:07 I was playing Dungeons&Dragons game earlier this week; when it is time to continue, I must figure out what to do next. King may be poison maybe we have to figure out first. And there is scepter of anti-magic, how can we get it where we need it, if it might disable the magic which allows us to get there? 23:25:04 Pack it in a sufficiently large container? But then the container won't fit through the magic portal. 23:30:38 -!- augur has joined. 2012-05-18: 00:03:26 -!- calamari has joined. 00:14:59 Triple facepalm. There’s someone on IRC with a problem: he’s hosting an interactive web map of his Minecraft world. The users of the gentleman’s map keep getting blacklisted. You see, he’s using a brilliant security program that bans clients who keep receiving HTTP 4xx responses, and map areas with no content are disclosed to clients with HTTP 404. 00:16:28 :D 00:16:52 What channels do you even hang out in that get problems like that? I want to join them. 00:20:30 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 00:22:00 Oh, just #donttellelliottaboutthischannel 00:22:07 Whoops, i wasn’t supposed to tell you about it. 00:22:22 01:22 Names: @elliott 00:22:24 What a perfect channel. 00:25:26 -!- mad has joined. 00:25:26 -!- mad has changed nick to madbr. 00:29:53 ion: 00:29:54 01:29 !lg * min=dur 00:29:54 01:29 1630445. ion the Slicer (L11 DSFi), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by a queen bee on D:12 on 2009-08-07, with 11282 points after 17153 turns and -6:02:09. 00:29:55 01:29 wow 00:29:59 It's about to be on FooTV. :P 00:31:30 ion: So what's with that? And why did you use an even bigger terminal in 2009? 00:49:22 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:51:14 elliott: A broken system clock on a game server, i guess. 00:51:19 elliott: What was my terminal size? 00:51:23 Too big. 00:57:21 -!- monqy has joined. 00:59:57 hello, monqy 01:00:21 hello 01:00:45 I don't like people who clear lambdabot messages before speaking in channels. 01:00:46 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:00:47 It ruins everything. 01:01:01 :( 01:01:01 EVERYTHING. 01:01:12 but what if I don't have anything to say here then how will I check my messages!! 01:01:12 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:01:17 like that 01:01:26 yeah but I had something to say 01:01:26 : that 01:01:57 @tell nobodyinparticular I hate people who leave messages to nonexistent nicks on lambdabot, thereby taking up its disk space for absolutely no reason. 01:01:57 Consider it noted. 01:02:06 -!- elliott has changed nick to nobodyinparticul. 01:02:09 -!- nobodyinparticul has changed nick to elliott. 01:02:13 :( 01:02:16 You've ruined it forever. 01:02:19 I don't think even I can remove that. 01:02:37 Bahaha 01:02:43 I wasn't even thinking about the length. 01:02:46 However, 01:02:58 02:02 @print-notices 01:02:58 02:02 fromList [("\SI",(Nothing,[Note {noteSender = "Sgeo", noteContents = "that I said hi", noteTime = (1336513878,173020000000), noteType = Tell}])),[...] 01:03:03 Sgeo is still the most ruiner. 01:03:10 ruinerest 01:03:16 @@ @tell elliott @quote 01:03:16 Consider it noted. 01:03:26 @messages? 01:03:26 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:03:28 @messages 01:03:28 ion said 11s ago: kilimanjaro says: the bad kind of laziness is "so they just invent an equivalance class of monotonic continuous functions that `represent' that partial order. but they haven't 01:03:28 taken a shower in like 10 days!" 01:08:19 `words --en-all 50 01:08:23 Unknown option: en-all 01:08:31 I never remember the args for that 01:09:09 `words --eng-all 50 01:09:16 hitte haw lup station ovzai knolek gatomianec epitatethy vilt anik moiieyuehr fttive hista caperadi dissen clon kersolum wbent akpackada packforen ableptally pazar balla spher cef 01:09:23 `run words --help | paste 01:09:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29925 01:26:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:50 Did you read the longer message I wrote about Ibtlfmm programming so far? I may write the second message later on too. 01:27:01 It is an entire fire 01:27:10 s/fire/file/ 01:28:11 it's an entire fire 01:28:38 I didn't write everything so I will then write the second one 01:38:38 Another thing, I would like in Ibtlfmm, possibly a Haskell compiler could implement it too, but I don't know of any way to do this in Haskell, is: You can load a program dynamically (dynLoad :: Typeable x => FilePath -> IO x) and then x is the type of main in whatever file you are loading (you get an error if the types do not match). 01:39:37 Is there any Haskell compiler with anything like this? 01:41:26 hint lets you write a function like that. 01:41:35 In fact, with that exact type. 01:41:36 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hint 01:44:18 -!- augur has joined. 01:45:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:45:32 I don't see. 01:45:44 -!- augur has joined. 01:46:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:58 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:19 Can you explain? 01:52:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:54:13 zzo38: Sure. 01:54:24 hint exposes the GHC API in a simple manner. 01:54:39 You just need loadModules + interpret. 01:54:44 (And runInterpreter.) 01:55:41 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:57:19 But what if it is a binary file which is not a package? 02:07:07 "omee~" -- monqy, 2012 02:08:13 i meant omee! 02:08:25 ~ is like right next to !!! 02:08:33 do you have a key that inserts "!!!" 02:08:40 anyway im going to stick with "omee~" 02:08:43 :( 02:08:49 `addquote ophanim: omee~ 02:08:52 854) ophanim: omee~ 02:08:58 nooo 02:09:03 `delquote 854 02:09:07 ​*poof* ophanim: omee~ 02:09:08 `revert 02:09:11 Done. 02:09:15 `quote 853 02:09:19 853) I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". pikhq: to what? To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse. 02:09:52 is that one funny 02:15:00 -!- augur has joined. 02:16:37 no 02:17:59 `delquote 853 02:18:02 ​*poof* I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". pikhq: to what? To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse. 02:18:20 apparently, only funny things are allowed to be quoted 02:18:24 i did not know 02:18:33 i will inform ais 02:19:15 `revert 02:19:18 Done. 02:19:23 your quote is reinstated 02:19:36 whoa neat 02:19:38 please contact the retention department 02:19:59 `quote 02:19:59 `quote 02:20:00 `quote 02:20:00 `quote 02:20:00 `quote 02:20:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 274 seconds). 02:20:09 that's a many quote 02:20:09 39) [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective 02:20:11 606) lol :( 02:20:22 95) I don't know that I've ever heard apocalypi described in terms of depth ... 02:20:23 200) OK, let's reduce the human genome to 4 chromosomes, in 2 homologous pairs. 02:20:24 19) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 02:20:53 what a great 5 quote 02:21:01 monqy: which will you delete ???? 02:21:04 are you saying they're all bad 02:21:07 i think they're mostly good :( 02:21:40 tempted to delete 606 02:21:52 wtf is 95 02:22:06 monqy: but it's so sad :( 02:22:16 :( 02:22:20 `quote 02:22:21 `quote 02:22:21 `quote 02:22:22 `quote 02:22:24 `quote 02:22:30 785) what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back 02:22:35 227) GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment 02:22:42 829) there was a time when I liked wearing a tie too.. I was a mormon. not claiming one has to be a religious nutcase to wear a tie, of course 02:22:45 837) Very much like "cen" is Latin for "horse", "yak" is Latin for "yak". 02:22:46 117) alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia 02:23:22 Is it permitted to specify -O2 and -O3 together? 02:23:29 its up to monqy this time 02:23:34 `quoteaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 02:23:36 and also 02:23:37 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: not found 02:23:37 every time 02:24:15 i'm bad at choices :( 02:24:37 ypou're even worse than me at choices maybe 02:24:40 how did you manage to do anythng 02:24:42 anything 02:24:43 i didnt 02:24:47 i dont get 227 is it funny 02:24:48 then how are you monqy!!! 02:25:04 227 is funny because asiekierka did not realise those options cannot be used together 02:25:08 and was doing some "benchmarking" 02:25:18 i now get it 02:25:24 and compared -Os -O2 -O3 to -O2 or something 02:25:40 It's hard to imagine -O2 to -O3 being a 4x improvement. 02:25:41 theres two types of allowed quotes 02:25:43 Not impossible, but hard. 02:25:45 funny quotes 02:25:46 -O0 to -O3, maybe. 02:25:52 and quotes that exist to shame or mock the person quoted 02:25:57 `quote monqy 02:25:59 like these ones 02:26:00 315) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. \ 355) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup \ 358) `quote django 02:26:14 mmm 02:26:15 old monqy 02:26:18 "missed" 02:26:21 :( 02:26:34 I also dislike quotation 606, it is the only one I have seen so far which I would vote to delete; it is too short and small 02:26:36 if i had a time machine i would clone old monqy and make friends with him 02:26:53 i would also need a clone machine 02:26:56 monqy: the time machine is within you!!! 02:27:05 `addquote if i had a time machine i would clone old monqy and make friends with him i would also need a clone machine 02:27:08 855) if i had a time machine i would clone old monqy and make friends with him i would also need a clone machine 02:27:33 `quote 02:27:33 `quote 02:27:34 `quote 02:27:34 `quote 02:27:34 `quote 02:27:44 518) well, you have bested me itidus20: Yes. 02:27:58 518 is the best 02:27:59 out of this batch 02:28:02 765) elliott: but, there are imps around, the pad. it's hard to remember though your cross-hairs would never settle on an innocent little girl. chokes up now imagine she's white. 02:28:03 253) Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions! and a monad! nothing can stop me now! 02:28:04 i don't even have to see the others to know that 02:28:05 261) [on egojoust] The fact is that EgoBot's % handling is O(slow) and O(big), and mine isn't. 02:28:05 592) [from 2009] That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2". 02:28:38 No you have to compare all of them to consider which one is best, unless it is like numeric with one highest infinity involved 02:28:42 probably should delete one of mine 02:28:45 zzo38: yes, it's exactly like that 02:28:53 You guys! 02:28:59 Five months tongue-face-smiley free! 02:29:02 of your quotes i vote for 253 or 261 02:29:05 I almost didn't even notice! 02:29:11 Gregor: I see :P 02:29:15 monqy: thank 02:29:18 I've learned a valuable life lesson never to use tongue face smiley 02:29:30 `delquote 253 02:29:33 ​*poof* Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions! and a monad! nothing can stop me now! 02:29:36 monqy: what was the lesson 02:29:37 feel free to delquote 260 as well 02:29:41 Gregor: :P 02:29:43 never to use tongue face smiley 02:30:00 monqy: when was the lesson 02:30:01 was this something you committed to doing? 02:30:02 how did you learn it 02:30:08 I forget!!! 02:30:12 help 02:30:14 help :P 02:30:14 `quote 02:30:15 `quote 02:30:16 `quote 02:30:18 `quote 02:30:20 571) OK, making myself emergency doctor on the advice of IRC. 02:30:21 `quote 02:30:22 246) We originally wrote this article in Word, but then we converted it to Latex to make it look more like science. 02:30:24 459) That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise 02:30:25 100) I perceived it so hard I actually went away :O 02:30:31 323) Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! 02:30:41 100 or 323 imo 02:30:48 `delquote 323 02:30:51 ​*poof* Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! 02:31:06 can delete 100 too if you feel it in you 02:31:18 me? no feeling 02:31:32 does monqy ever feel 02:31:47 i would have gone for 100 imo but otoh 100 is traditional 02:32:17 actually i think im going to 02:32:19 undo that delete 02:32:20 for now 02:32:22 `revert 02:32:23 sory monqy 02:32:24 Done. 02:32:27 you can put it back if you want 02:32:28 the 02:32:29 lack 02:32:30 of quote 323 02:32:51 `quote 02:32:52 `quote 02:32:53 `quote 02:32:53 `quote 02:32:55 `quote 02:32:59 244) elliott: are you kidding? you're horrible, horrible people. That's why I feel at home here. 02:33:05 602) Hulu's movie selection is like MST3K without the MST3K characters. 02:33:15 711) myndzi\: ok so one of the nastiest puzzles i suppose is... you're on death row.. you don't want to die. 02:33:15 578) THERE WAS A VISIBLE SUPERNOVA AND NOBODY FUCKING TOLD ME??????????????????????????/ 02:33:17 249) gah, why does lose keep winning? 02:33:59 244 or 249 or 578 02:34:06 711 is the best there 02:34:29 `delquote 578 02:34:31 ​*poof* THERE WAS A VISIBLE SUPERNOVA AND NOBODY FUCKING TOLD ME??????????????????????????/ 02:34:34 `delquote 249 02:34:38 ​*poof* gah, why does lose keep winning? 02:34:40 agree wait no stop 02:34:43 you only delete one monqy!! 02:34:46 it' sthe rules 02:34:48 oops i 02:34:49 oopsed it 02:34:53 unless there's 02:34:54 i meant to delquote 244 02:34:58 `revert 02:34:58 two really really bad ones 02:35:00 Done. 02:35:00 `delquote 244 02:35:03 oh; that's reasonable 02:35:03 244 is bad 02:35:04 ​*poof* elliott: are you kidding? you're horrible, horrible people. That's why I feel at home here. 02:35:06 that one is pretty lame yes 02:35:09 `quote 02:35:09 `quote 02:35:10 `quote 02:35:11 `quote 02:35:13 `quote 02:35:15 12) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. 02:35:15 it's a hard job but we do it 02:35:22 97) Why are the cops in GTA always so obsessed with my asshole? 02:35:34 601) Let us discuss the correct procedure for converting LP -> FLAC The correct procedure is: you put the LP into a flatbed scanner, scan it as a Windows .bmp file, and then rename that file to .flac. 02:35:34 100) I perceived it so hard I actually went away :O 02:35:36 711) interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. 02:35:45 601 is good 02:35:46 12 is best 02:35:52 711 is ok 02:35:54 `delquote 97 02:35:58 ​*poof* Why are the cops in GTA always so obsessed with my asshole? 02:36:00 `quote 02:36:00 `quote 02:36:01 `quote 02:36:02 `quote 02:36:04 `quote 02:36:10 476) It's ok guys. I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. 02:36:14 433) Dear eHow: Please don't assume that my toilet works like that Or, at least, my toilet looks different 02:36:24 476 is good 02:36:24 184) HOT SEXY SEX BITS 02:36:24 515) well, you have bested me itidus20: Yes. 02:36:27 646) If you jump a car from a ramp and hit the wall of a building, in midair, you tend to get ejected up and fly to the sky-ceiling, then slowly slide at that height to one corner of the world; then you land, make a complicated spinning-around thing for a while, and then explode. Also probably works in real life? 02:36:29 433 is good too 02:36:35 515 also good 02:36:46 i can't decide if 184 is good or not 02:36:49 646 is also good 02:36:54 184 is something i don't think we can ever delete 02:36:59 yeah it's traditional 02:37:00 515 is what was 518 until some were deleted 02:37:08 monqy: that can only be sarcastic ;( 02:37:20 don't worry i decided like it!! 02:37:21 `quote monqy 02:37:24 312) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. \ 352) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup \ 355) `quote django 02:37:26 you're a 300-quoter! 02:37:33 what does that mean 02:37:38 all of my quotes are over 300? 02:37:39 you joined when there were only ~300 quotes 02:37:41 this is how we rank people now 02:37:44 oh 02:37:48 well you got addquoted soon after you joined 02:37:50 because you were hilarious 02:37:57 what if i joined later but the quotes got delquoted 02:38:06 well these are the quotes now 02:38:10 and 02:38:11 also 02:38:11 "our quote id system sucks" 02:38:17 did you know the quote ids used to be not reused 02:38:20 you are still a 300 quoter baby 02:38:21 when it used -- seriously -- sqlite 02:38:34 i want to be hilarious again :'( 02:38:35 `quote 02:38:35 `quote 02:38:36 `quote 02:38:36 `quote 02:38:37 yeah those were the days 02:38:39 `quote 02:38:46 501) Oh god. I've become a metallurgy hipster. 02:38:51 786) fungot: Feeling scrambled after all that? fizzie: but it's much like new zealand, in my stone-age country, we still like you even if you're only using the new fnord 02:38:52 man i love one-to-one mappings of numders to quotes 02:39:00 would that we could have them back 02:39:00 50) no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 02:39:00 338) 3 = 7/2 02:39:04 541) The only happy dorf has a compassion stat of 0. Well, 20, but it amounts to the same. 02:39:16 541 imho 02:39:26 `delquote 541 02:39:29 ​*poof* The only happy dorf has a compassion stat of 0. Well, 20, but it amounts to the same. 02:39:31 what's 338 02:39:39 monqy: were you ever here for fax 02:39:47 aka crystal-cola aka j-invariant aka faxathisia 02:39:53 aka quantumEd aka MissPigy aka uhhh soupdragon 02:39:56 aka ... probably more 02:39:57 apparently i joined before 338 but i don't remember this 02:40:13 it's impossible to explain if you don't remember fax really 02:40:17 `pastelogs 02:40:48 come on HackEgo!!! 02:40:49 No output. 02:40:52 what! 02:40:56 `pastelogs [<]crystal-cola[>] 02:40:56 hackego no 02:41:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19740 02:41:47 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:26: anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' 02:41:47 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:44: since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims 02:41:52 god this paste is the best ever 02:42:41 monqy: read all of that and you'll probably understand crystal-cola 02:42:45 even the first few pages of trolling 02:42:45 ok 02:43:08 `quote 02:43:08 `quote 02:43:09 `quote 02:43:10 `quote 02:43:12 `quote 02:43:19 834) they call finnish human-readable? 02:43:24 268) back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. 02:43:32 469) ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints? 02:43:33 125) Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough 02:43:34 375) You make a fist, shake it at the sky, and shout "why, GNU, why?!" -- that is the standard reportig practice. 02:44:01 i like 268 and 375 and probably 469 02:44:04 but 834 is good too 02:44:14 and 125 falls under the shaming/mockery categroy 02:44:16 *categoy 02:46:02 monqy: help 02:46:10 `quote 02:46:10 `quote 02:46:10 `quote 02:46:11 `quote 02:46:11 `quote 02:46:16 "moving on" 02:46:20 "with quote, life" 02:46:21 agree 02:46:25 595) Dear god stop staring at me. no never monqy is always staring at everyone. it takes many eyes to do this but I manage He is an inspiration to us all. 02:46:26 monqy: "hi" 02:46:30 monqy: didnt you mean semicolon there 02:46:33 monqy: "do you like stroopwafels too" 02:46:43 586) Vorpal: who needs cars when you can walk to latvia 02:46:46 739) When you die in Canada, you die in real life. 02:46:46 shachaf: whats a stroopwafels 02:46:47 170) I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol 02:46:48 655) Magnetic butterfly is slower than cat and restarting if you make a mistake is slower than vi is slower than mind-reading. 02:47:04 monqy: "its good, you like it" 02:47:10 imo 170 02:47:41 `delquote 170 02:47:46 ​*poof* I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol 02:47:56 `quote 02:47:57 `quote 02:47:58 `quote 02:48:00 `quote 02:48:01 219) And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 02:48:07 `quote 02:48:07 `quote 170 02:48:12 312) and then there's the slightly annoying one where suddenly, i start rolling forward and i can't stop like i can be having some great sex dream or whatever and then suddenly "oh god not this again" (i go "not this again" but not necessarily realize it's a dream) 02:48:30 145) cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. 02:48:48 299) elliott: parents who put just "Chris" on a birth certificate are... like parents who put just "Bob" on a birth certificate. 02:48:50 170) i like the feeling of freedom you get driving a bus 02:48:50 817) I don't even know set theory I haven't a clue what is going on wow got that 1 right 02:49:08 probably 817 02:49:17 monqy: were you around for cpressey/catseye/ZOMGMODULES visiting us regularly 02:49:25 i fear you might have missed it and i'm so sorry for you 02:49:28 ive seen ZOMGMODULES around but i dont think so :( 02:49:37 i feel sorry for me too 02:49:45 `delquote 817 02:49:48 ​*poof* I don't even know set theory I haven't a clue what is going on wow got that 1 right 02:50:08 monqy: "if eel sor ryfory ou" 02:52:00 `quote 02:52:01 `quote 02:52:01 `quote 02:52:03 `quote 02:52:05 `quote 02:52:09 211) I can play crysis, but not minecraft? 02:52:12 265) lol @ closed character set standard "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows." 02:52:23 212) Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. 02:52:25 260) $ perl -e '/? <-- HERE/' Quantifier follows nothing in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/? <-- HERE <-- HERE/ at -e line 1. 02:52:26 93) I seem to think of coaxial cables as being omnipotent somehow. 02:52:36 211 02:52:38 "imo" 02:53:38 monqy: `imo' 02:53:44 iyo 02:53:48 iyho 02:53:58 ``ieo'' 02:54:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ieo'': not found 02:54:10 monqy: im going to have to do it arent i :( 02:54:28 i'm debating between 211 and 93 02:54:34 not fond of either 02:54:35 `delquote 211' 02:54:38 No output. 02:54:50 i think 93 is mostly ok 02:54:55 `delquote 211 02:54:58 its not astonishing but 02:54:58 ​*poof* I can play crysis, but not minecraft? 02:54:58 by popular opinion 02:55:02 we got rid of most of the early-quote crappiness 02:55:05 ages ago 02:55:07 `quote 02:55:08 `quote 02:55:08 `quote 02:55:08 `quote 02:55:09 `quote 02:55:20 255) oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck 02:55:32 imo 255 02:55:36 350) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup 02:55:39 490) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. 02:55:39 760) elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... 02:55:39 33) i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 02:55:45 `run function foo() { $(bin/quote | awk '{print $1 $2}'); }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 02:55:50 bash: 462): command not found \ bash: 654): command not found \ bash: 476): command not found \ bash: 641): command not found \ bash: 142): command not found \ 02:56:00 350 is perfect obviously 02:56:04 490 is ok 02:56:08 760 is fungot, and so sacrosanct 02:56:09 elliott: bt ftw? :p. ugh i need to do the design as well, 02:56:21 33 is only there for the self-reference and it's crap but 02:56:21 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 02:56:25 730) 806) 368) 91) 412) 02:56:47 Sorcery. 02:57:03 good function 02:57:09 but what is the quote 02:57:21 "who cares" 02:57:25 me 02:57:26 i do 02:57:31 want a fight??? 02:57:37 yes :'( 02:57:40 I don't 02:57:40 go away 02:57:53 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 02:57:58 43) I 106) if 585) [from 2009] 474) It's 76) Warrigal 02:58:07 i if it's warrigal 02:58:18 i 02:58:27 is it warrigal 02:58:29 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "hi monqy"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 02:58:35 661) Vorpal: your hi monqy 63) oohhh hi monqy 609) isn't a hi monqy 686) You should hi monqy 196) That is hi monqy 02:58:35 I assume that by "it's" you mean "you're" and by "i" you mean "say 'i'". 02:58:44 You should hi monqy 02:59:02 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "hi monqy"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 02:59:07 662) Life expectancy hi monqy 583) Just goes hi monqy 194) So it's hi monqy 344) Scotland turns hi monqy 658) I am hi monqy 02:59:16 :( 02:59:29 zzo38: No, *I* am hi monqy! 02:59:42 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3360153036711&l=6945039e9e I made myself a pin to commemorate this auspicious day. 03:00:15 do I get a pin oo 03:00:16 too 03:00:17 Gregor: did you give it up for lent and then never stop 03:00:20 Our watch, sir, as you know, has comprehended two auspicious persons. 03:00:21 Gregor: pls actually make that 03:00:26 `quote 03:00:26 `quote 03:00:26 `quote 03:00:27 `quote 03:00:30 `quote 03:00:30 Gregor: hey, what's a version of Windows you hate? 03:00:37 windows 03:00:39 618) i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. 03:00:40 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "for elliott"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:00:41 662) Life expectancy now is a function of whether you go berserk or not. 03:00:48 shachaf: stop 03:00:52 646) clearly darth needs something gray and big and proving the uncountability of the reals 03:00:53 529) I didn't realise nickel apparently can't be shaped into a screw because of some fundamental feature of dwarven physics. 03:00:53 248) actually, I think vorpal is the "retarded team member" to the left 03:00:53 642) You know for elliott 822) A lot for elliott 666) elliott: it for elliott 817) ais523: well, for elliott 151) pigeons are for elliott 03:01:07 elliott: Oh. :-( 03:01:09 That is why God invented the pigeon. 03:01:15 ok i laughed at pigeons are for elliott 03:01:22 "yay" 03:01:27 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "the devil"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:01:31 238) bin canary karma lib maketext monqy paste quotes share wisdom quintopia sits the devil 120) alise, marble the devil 741) `delquote 419 the devil 679) also, why the devil 75) It's not the devil 03:01:32 shachaf: can you stop we need to delete quotes!!! 03:01:35 monqy: which should we delete 03:01:39 Gregor: hey, what's a version of Windows you hate? // I only hate the versions that Microsoft was involved i. 03:01:41 *in 03:01:45 i cant see the quotes there's too much for elliott 03:01:47 i'll try harder 03:01:50 Gregor: oh, okay. 03:01:57 monqy: its above that 03:02:00 `cat bin/quote 03:02:02 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 03:02:11 `run head -n5 bin/quote 03:02:14 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else 03:02:36 `run cat bin/quote | tail -n+5 | head -n5 03:02:39 else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 03:02:46 shachaf: stop you're making monqy's screen scroll!!! 03:02:49 use `url 03:02:57 `url grey tea 03:02:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/grey tea 03:03:06 (I don't really pronounce it like that.) 03:03:46 `quote 238 03:03:49 238) * quintopia sits on gregor 03:03:51 that's totally how i pronounce "earl grey tea" 03:04:08 what is 238 03:04:09 quintopia: you pronounce it with a grave accent before it? 03:04:15 i was thinking 03:04:16 662 03:04:18 tswett: totally 03:04:19 or 03:04:19 `quote 662 03:04:20 248 03:04:22 662) Life expectancy now is a function of whether you go berserk or not. 03:04:36 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "makes no sense"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:04:36 I think we should delete quote 440. 03:04:39 `quote 440 03:04:41 i vote 662 03:04:41 659) Can you makes no sense 807) elliott: Apparently makes no sense 75) It's not makes no sense 735) Incest, the makes no sense 694) shachaf: wait, makes no sense 03:04:42 440) No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse. 03:04:52 ok 440 also 03:04:57 no 03:04:57 -!- itidus20 has joined. 03:04:58 you're not 03:05:00 playing the game right 03:05:02 why are we beleeting again? 03:05:03 We should also delete quote 288. 03:05:04 this round is disqualified!!!! 03:05:05 `quote 03:05:05 `quote 288 03:05:06 `quote 03:05:07 `quote 03:05:08 `quote 03:05:11 `quote 03:05:12 aaaa too much words 03:05:13 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "is disqualified!!!!"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:05:14 just for fun? 03:05:17 tswett: stop! it'll get mixed into the quotes! you're all banned from quotes forever 03:05:18 shachaffffff :( 03:05:20 stooooop 03:05:23 elliott: oh, okay. 03:05:26 328) ais523: YOU WILL HAVE YOUR QUOTE SOON 03:05:29 91) think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat 03:05:32 monqy: mye game > youre game :'( 03:05:42 elliott: no more quoting or deleting. stop. 03:05:46 288) Phantom_Hoover: mutation is often considerably harder for both humans and compilers can analyze it much more difficult' part that induces bloody vomit... huh....intriguing 03:05:47 75) It's not incest if you're third cousins! 03:05:48 571) Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though? 03:05:50 553) Intake flooded is disqualified!!!! 259) $ perl is disqualified!!!! 399) I used is disqualified!!!! 10) is disqualified!!!! 181) I don't is disqualified!!!! 03:05:53 5) GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 03:06:01 288 is pretty nice. We should keep it. 03:06:12 259 is pretty good. 03:06:15 Gregor: does hackego have any bombs you can set off 03:06:17 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "is pretty good!!!!"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:06:22 104) okay I is pretty good!!!! 738) DeadlyFugu: the is pretty good!!!! 508) the classic is pretty good!!!! 308) elliott: well is pretty good!!!! 23) IN AN ALTERNATE is pretty good!!!! 03:06:24 * shachaf needs to go in a couple of minutes. 03:06:36 ---------- 03:06:37 `quote 03:06:38 `quote 23 03:06:38 `quote 03:06:39 `quote 03:06:40 sigh 03:06:45 "oops" 03:06:47 777) the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory olsner: So what's this SDRAM then? fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading 03:06:57 773) Quinary computers replace the cache with a quiche. 03:07:00 23) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" 03:07:01 429) the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s 03:07:44 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "should be turned into a HackEgo command!"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:07:49 543) game where should be turned into a HackEgo command! 285) elliott, incidentally, should be turned into a HackEgo command! 459) The Russian's should be turned into a HackEgo command! 118) AnMaster: to should be turned into a HackEgo command! 188) well i should be turned into a HackEgo command! 03:07:59 285) elliott, incidentally, should be turned into a HackEgo command! 03:08:15 netcraft confirms it 03:08:27 shachaf stop :( 03:08:56 monqy: okaye :-( 03:09:08 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:09:10 . ⎛ 03:09:17 - ⎜ 03:09:21 oopse 03:09:23 . ⎛ 03:09:29 - ⎜ 03:09:37 . ⎝ 03:09:40 "oopse" 03:09:44 . ⎛ 03:09:52 -- ⎜ 03:09:54 . ⎝ 03:09:56 what are you doing 03:10:16 :-(ing 03:10:32 . . 03:10:36 | 03:10:47 "uh oh" 03:10:48 /mode +b EVERYONE 03:10:58 shachaf: just 03:11:12 stop 03:12:03 `quote 03:12:03 `quote 03:12:05 `quote 03:12:05 `quote 03:12:07 `quote 03:12:10 254) so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported? 03:12:12 337) [...] OOPS.. my cockfile got destroyed 03:12:14 grrrr 03:12:16 826) itidus21: hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, h 03:12:20 291) 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric. 03:12:22 quintopia: what 03:12:25 444) The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. 03:12:34 imo 337 03:12:43 elliott: do you really need to keep spamming the channel with quotes :/ 03:12:54 ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────┐ 03:12:57 "at least it's better than shachaf's game" 03:12:57 │ ＥＭＰＬＯＹＥＥ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＭＯＮＴＨ： │ 03:13:12 │ ｓｈａｃｈａｆ │ 03:13:12 └──────────────────────────────────────────────┘ 03:13:12 quintopia: it's our national op-endorsed past-time! 03:13:13 but it stops if anyone talks about/wants to talk about esolangs 03:13:19 kmc: "oh no :'(" 03:13:25 kmc: "what did i do" 03:13:28 complaining about `quote is close enough to talking about esolangs 03:13:52 monqy: good pointe 03:14:24 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "is hard. let's go shopping!"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:14:27 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 03:14:43 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " "is hard. let'\''s go shopping!"}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:14:48 461) God, I is hard. let's go shopping! 141) So basically is hard. let's go shopping! 553) Intake flooded is hard. let's go shopping! 479) cigaretes and is hard. let's go shopping! 721) Just because is hard. let's go shopping! 03:15:36 `run function foo() { bin/quote | awk '{print $1 " " $2 " " $3 " " $4 " " " <----- that'\''s a terrible quote :'\''("}'; }; echo $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) $(foo) 03:15:40 479) cigaretes and <----- that's a terrible quote :'( 789) bleh, why <----- that's a terrible quote :'( 660) I'm neither <----- that's a terrible quote :'( 327) destroying a <----- that's a terrible quote :'( 818) is tswett <----- that's a terrible quote :'( 03:16:22 `quote 818 03:16:22 * shachaf away 03:16:25 818) is tswett Warrigal? 03:16:31 `delquote 818 03:16:34 ​*poof* is tswett Warrigal? 03:16:48 Raar. 03:17:31 `revert 03:17:46 Done. 03:19:10 -!- SchrodingersCat has joined. 03:22:57 Do you know how to work the Netplay on TGB-Dual without resulting in synchronization errors? 03:23:01 yes 03:23:06 (no :( ) 03:36:07 -!- augur has joined. 03:44:53 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 03:56:12 shachaf: apparently in some legacy encodings, a character is double-width iff it takes two bytes 03:59:53 kmc: I think that does make some sense 04:01:28 That would explain the name. 04:10:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:12:08 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:24:46 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:46:47 night 04:47:00 day 04:48:44 knight 04:49:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:14 dais 05:33:00 Can you prove that you have never been to the moon? 05:33:27 no 05:33:27 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 05:34:32 @messages? 05:34:32 elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 05:35:10 @messages? 05:35:10 elliott: You have 13 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 05:38:30 What is the farthest object you can examine by telescope? 05:43:32 depends how big the telescope is 05:43:55 -!- augur has joined. 05:53:52 elliott: Want an EXCITING MATHEMATICAL PUZZLE? 05:54:07 I read an article in 2600 once where someone combined all the lenses for the telescope to watch the moon extremely closely 05:54:48 shachaf: yes 05:55:01 monqy: How many "8"s can you fit on a plane? 05:55:48 8s are too intangible to fit on a plane 05:56:36 monqy: Non-overlapping 8 shapes, where an 8 shape is two tangent circles. 05:57:23 enough 05:57:40 Clearly you can fit ℵ_1 non-overlapping circles on a plane. 05:57:50 It's not so clear about 8s. 05:57:57 that's not a number 05:58:06 !!!! 05:58:07 Oh. :-( 05:58:20 You have outlogicked me. 05:59:01 yes 06:00:03 shachaf, is one of the circles allowed to have radius 0? 06:00:23 if it has radius 0 it's not a circle is it 06:00:26 "silly goose" 06:00:31 "what monqy said" 06:08:26 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 06:10:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:13:45 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:14:20 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 06:56:54 i don't think i've ever had to pee this bad 06:56:58 o_O 06:57:02 this is horrible 06:57:18 have you tried peeing 06:57:21 not yet 06:57:23 i hear it helps 06:57:25 hasn't come to that 06:57:59 well maybe i'll do that 06:58:02 thanks 07:15:40 Let's see whether the government is putting any satellites there without everyone's knowledge of their existence and function and so on 07:17:09 Where? 07:18:08 In orbit! 07:22:13 monqy: YOU JUST CHANGED EVERYTHING. I AM IN TEARS OF JOY. THANK YOU. 07:22:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:33:05 During the ceremony of joy, monqy was nowhere to be seen. 07:36:16 Did you sometimes eat your own blood? 07:40:28 Probably a bad time to return from AFK, if the last message is reflective of the conversation matter in general... 07:43:21 It is indeed. 07:44:27 Did you ever find the Higgs boson inside your computer? 07:44:47 Yes. 07:46:40 http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/unplugged/warcraft-starcraft-invade-classic-board-games-194405691.html 07:48:11 Tomorrow I will be at Victoria. I like to go to Japanese restaurant. 07:49:12 fwiw i don't play wow myself and i don't think many here do to be honest 07:53:27 -!- scottj has left. 08:01:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:08:22 -!- cswords has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:29:03 -!- cheater has joined. 08:38:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:38:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:38:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:42:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:43:08 this dithered image messes with my eyes http://www.artfulgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/racover0001.png 09:04:09 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 09:12:30 Hmm. Ordered dither. 09:24:59 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:25:05 -!- clog has joined. 09:33:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:33:59 Hi :-) 09:34:04 Did anyone ever play "Robot Battle" or "Mech Zone: Robot Battle II" on the Mac? I can't find much info about them... 09:52:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 10:17:41 i just had a funny(fsvo funny) idea for a movie: a 2 hour film where you watch a slot machine. *imagine* a cinema full of people watching a slot machine on the big screen 10:20:28 Maybe with David Attenborough at a narrator. The behaviour of the slot machine in it's native habitat. 10:21:05 ooh. and an introduction by Morgan Freeman 10:22:45 the general idea would be that people would find the experience so excruciating and monotonous they would walk out after a few minutes 10:23:51 they would almost be suffocating from their need to press the buttons 10:54:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:55:28 Hello 10:57:23 Hi Taneb 10:57:36 Had a maths exam this morning 10:57:40 It was surprisingly hard 10:58:05 What kind of maths? 10:58:13 mathsy maths 10:58:23 The best kind :-) 10:58:38 The Core 2 module of OCR's A-level Maths qualification 11:00:18 Pure maths? 11:00:26 It has trigonometry and logs 11:00:50 And binomial expansion, and arithmetic and geometric sequences 11:01:15 And integration 11:02:06 I hate intergration / differentiation :-( 11:02:38 Yeah, I can never remember whether you divide or multiply 11:02:44 Almost ended up doing both :/ 11:04:57 I hate it because we got taught how to do it, but not why it works... 11:06:02 Yeah 11:23:31 Okay, BSD3 license. 11:23:38 What if I don't have an organization!? 11:26:26 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:27:54 -!- yorick has joined. 11:42:12 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 11:45:57 -!- rodgort has joined. 11:56:31 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:59:07 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:04:40 -!- SchrodingersCat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:06:49 -!- nortti has joined. 12:08:13 -!- SchrodingersCat has joined. 12:11:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:23:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:27:08 Hello 12:27:19 #esoteric-en 12:27:30 What is this madness 12:31:22 Taneb: täällä puhutaan suomea nykyään 12:37:55 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 12:39:34 joo 12:39:38 -!- itidus21 has joined. 12:39:52 -!- rodgort has joined. 12:39:57 I wonder what the etymology of “joo” is? 12:41:25 se liittyi jotenkin suomen eduskunnan äänestysjuttuun (tosin siinä taisi lukea jaa-9 12:42:39 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:42:59 s/-9/)/ 12:43:00 It originating from the Swedish “ja” is plausible, but what made the vowel change to “o”? 12:45:17 drunken finnish? they almost always say o in place of a (at least what I have heard) 12:45:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:46:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:50:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 12:56:28 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:57:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:00:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:00:33 afd 13:00:50 But it's May! 13:26:11 so i have a question. 13:26:25 why is it that irc channels are not endlessly swarmed by advertising bots? 13:27:04 oh.. is it the voice thing and stuff like that? 13:39:44 because ad bots are annoying and people do not do evil. 13:42:19 but in some non-irc chatrooms, where there is no moderators, there is a constant endless stream of ad bots 13:42:29 and there is even a captcha in the way 13:43:36 it just amazes me that it isn't a problem 13:46:23 itidus21, because there's like no point in adbotting on IRC? 13:46:51 If you spam websites you can get favourable results on search engines. 13:46:54 IRC... not so much. 13:47:51 i think i see.. the other chatroom is simply a weak target for a small few bot operators 13:53:59 Phantom_Hoover, so why do they spam MediaWikis? 13:54:11 I thought MediaWikis these days have no...something 13:55:26 maybe a mediawiki is also a weak target 13:58:06 I'm not sure, but you're far more likely to get links followed from a wiki than an IRC channel. 13:59:43 well i think ads in this sense would be just a general form of attack 14:00:41 and irc is good at staving off attack 14:00:51 i like the word staving 14:02:05 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113800/Metalworkers-cooked-death-inside-giant-Austrian-oven-door-closed-800C-furnace-accidentally-switched-on.html 14:08:59 -!- impomatic has left. 14:25:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:05:18 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:06:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 15:16:00 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 15:16:00 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 15:16:00 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split). 15:16:05 -!- quintopia has joined. 15:16:19 -!- mtve has joined. 15:16:19 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:37:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:41:04 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:00:41 -!- ais523_ has joined. 16:01:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:01:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:07:07 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 16:17:08 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:18:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:20:35 -!- elliott has joined. 16:21:39 how many messages do i have 16:21:39 elliott: You have 27 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:21:43 yay 16:21:59 17:21 @messages 16:21:59 17:21 monqy asked 10h 47m 32s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 16:22:00 17:21 monqy asked 10h 47m 29s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 16:22:01 17:21 monqy asked 10h 47m 29s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 16:22:03 17:21 monqy asked 10h 47m 28s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 16:22:05 17:21 monqy asked 10h 47m 27s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 16:22:11 [...] 16:22:12 17:22 Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed 16:24:40 12:39:57: I wonder what the etymology of “joo” is? 16:24:44 ion: What's joo? 16:25:12 13:26:25: why is it that irc channels are not endlessly swarmed by advertising bots? 16:25:13 big ones are 16:25:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:25:19 not on freenode though 16:25:37 although that shitty racist forum pops up in #haskell every now and then 16:28:23 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:28:27 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 16:28:30 -!- calamari has joined. 16:28:49 -!- calamari has left. 16:29:20 ahh 16:29:44 well there's more flooding/trolling bots than ads i would say 16:29:50 because nobody is going to click an ad 16:30:05 go hang out on efnet if you want some anarchy 16:30:13 elliott: Why are you on this channel if you don’t know Finnish? :-( 16:30:32 http://translate.google.fi/#fi|en|joo 16:30:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:37 ion: trolling so that you enter a state in which u mad, at which point i will achieve enlightenment 16:31:04 something something problem? something something y u no something over 9000 something 16:31:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:32:15 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:32:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:32:43 everything went better than expected. 16:35:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:35:24 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:37:55 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 16:38:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:40:33 hi Taneb 16:40:38 Hello 16:40:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:42:22 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:42:52 elliott, I made some of the suggestions you made to Data.FamilyTree 16:42:59 \o/ 16:43:00 | 16:43:00 /< 16:43:06 ^celebrate 16:43:06 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 16:43:07 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | ¦ 16:43:07 /| /| |\ | /| /´\ /'\ | >\ /< ´¸¨ 16:43:07 /`\ /'¯|_) 16:43:07 (_| |_) (_| 16:43:13 I decided to not change it to Lens FamilyTree (Maybe whatevs) 16:43:37 Because of the ID's being reallocated 16:44:24 Hm? 16:44:35 I'm not sure what the reallocation would affect. 16:44:44 (But I think you shouldn't reallocate IDs.) 16:45:02 (If you don't, then ID has a stronger semantic connection to the given whatevs.) 16:45:35 (Another thing you can do with ID is give it a type parameter, so that it looks like "ID Foo -> Lens FamilyTree (Maybe Foo)", and you can't mix up IDs for different things.) 16:46:08 (I reallocate ID's for reasons of space, which helps when you're someone like me and make a lot of mistakes) 16:47:03 Taneb: Huh? 16:47:07 Where does space come into it? 16:47:25 Well, there's at least 2^28 possible people, etc 16:47:27 I'm just mad 16:47:49 Taneb: Use Integer. 16:47:57 You shouldn't generally use Int unless you *know* it's limited. 16:47:59 It's an IntMap 16:48:09 3 IntMaps 16:48:19 If IntegerMap exists, I'll be happy to use it 16:48:24 Well, HashMap Integer is probably just as good. But it's your program :P 16:48:32 I know HashMap Int is about as fast (slightly faster?) than IntMap. 16:49:26 You don't really have to do any of my suggestions, it's just that obviously how *I* would have done it is the objectively correct method. 16:49:35 :P 16:52:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:52:43 elliott understands IRC 16:53:04 also, if someone asks how to do X, and you can't think of a use for X within about three seconds, it proves the person is an idiot 16:56:14 kmc: I think the other case (someone asks how to do X and it turns out that they're wrong) is much more common, so the bias isn't all that unreasonable. 16:56:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:57:23 Also I think the attitude isn't so much "you're an idiot" as "the fact that I'm helping you on IRC for free doesn't mean my time is worthless; please don't make it difficult and unpleasant to do so". 17:01:29 well XY problems really happen, yes 17:01:42 but people are also very quick to jump to that conclusion 17:02:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 17:02:29 About half of all questions asked in #haskell are an XY problem. 17:02:33 Probably more. 17:04:19 if you're worried about other people wasting your time, it's probably better to stay quiet than to berate them for having an XY problem 17:04:32 XY problem? 17:04:32 ais523: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 17:04:37 kmc: What if I'm worried about helping them? 17:04:55 then wait for them to say more 17:05:04 They never do, because they don't think they have an XY problem. 17:05:09 They think they need to get Int out of IO Int. 17:05:14 or ask "why do you want to do X" as opposed to "you shouldn't do X because I can't think of a reason for it" 17:05:25 It's not really berating to ask for what they're really trying to do, and to tell them that they don't want to do what they think they do. 17:05:36 (Except in very rare circumstances.) 17:05:49 (But it's usually easy to tell whether such a circumstance could possibly apply to somebody based on how knowledgable they sound.) 17:06:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:09:10 -!- augur has joined. 17:10:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:10:30 > zipWith3 if' [True, False, True, True, False] (repeat '0') (repeat '1') -- fun! 17:10:32 "01001" 17:10:52 I've never actually used zipWith3 before. It's always been a theoretical thing. 17:10:57 map (bool '0' '1') is shorter. :p 17:11:29 :t bool 17:11:29 Not in scope: `bool' 17:11:53 @let bool False _ b = b; bool True a _ = a 17:11:54 Defined. 17:12:12 I think that is wrong 17:12:16 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:12:28 Erm, map (bool '1' '0'), I mean. 17:12:30 bool x _ False = x; bool _ x True = x; 17:12:34 Er. 17:12:35 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:12:37 Yes, you're right. 17:12:42 Except flip the first two arguments. 17:12:43 @undefine 17:12:54 @let bool a b p = if p then a else b 17:12:55 Defined. 17:13:02 > map (if' '0' '1') [True, false, True, True, False] 17:13:03 Not in scope: `if''Not in scope: `false' 17:13:07 Aw. 17:13:07 > map (bool '0' '1') [False, False, True, True, False] 17:13:08 "11001" 17:13:13 shachaf: Wrong argument order. 17:13:19 I DON'T CARE 17:14:08 @let if' n x y = if isPrime n then x else y 17:14:09 Defined. 17:14:13 Hmm, someone claiming that an edwardk package is too slow for their purposes. 17:14:35 Who said that? 17:14:43 Someone called ghorn. 17:15:25 better `seq` unsafeDo# (some# unsafeOptimization#) 17:16:08 seq# 17:16:28 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:16:50 -!- Foggalong has joined. 17:17:09 * elliott considers joining #haskell-blah to tease edwardk about it. 17:17:23 -!- Foggalong has quit (Client Quit). 17:19:19 Are they calling it "an edwardk package"? 17:22:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:22:53 Well, I knew it was before they even named it. 17:22:55 But then they named it. 17:23:26 Based on what? It had no documentation? 17:24:24 I just know these things, man. 17:24:34 Also because I don't know of any other automatic differentiation packages for Haskell. 17:25:15 "This month saw quite a lot of activity on StackOverflow, largely from user Clinton trying to puzzle through STM and other concurrency issues." 17:25:29 If by "puzzle through" you mean "assert ridiculous theories about and ignore everyone who explains why they're wrong", sure. 17:38:07 Hello 17:41:03 -!- nooga has joined. 17:50:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:55:44 Do you like the prelude-generalize-0.3.1? 17:57:31 I was just thinking of making something like that! 17:58:45 Something like...? 17:58:52 prelude-generalize 17:59:12 Well, now there already is. 17:59:35 Tell me if you have a comment about it, thing to add and so on 18:00:15 Is AaronBlack you? 18:00:44 "By using terahertz radiation, researchers from the Tokyo Institute of Technology (Suzukakedai campus pictured) set a new record for wireless data transmission speed." 18:01:25 the rumors of mutated researchers are completely unfounded. 18:04:24 Taneb: Yes that is my name. 18:04:28 Okay 18:05:36 It looks pretty good! 18:07:43 Lists and LogicT are MonadLogic, but so is StateT s [] and so on, so the generalized versions of tail and so on can be used with that too. 18:09:37 It could do with a bit more documentation, I think. But that's just me 18:09:58 You may be correct about that. 18:12:41 -!- derdon has joined. 18:12:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:18:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:19:13 zzo38, have you seen family-tree ? 18:19:46 Taneb: OK I am looking now 18:20:13 how much boob would a noob loop poop if a noop loop could whoopadoop? 18:20:19 is my question 18:20:55 a noob loop wouldn't poop any boob as the ability to whoopadoop does not correlate in any way with the ability to boob. 18:20:58 Is my answer 18:21:00 I do not understand the question. 18:22:37 I don't know why you would need to use (LogicT Identity) for anything (other than its existence), since it is like [], but LogicT can be used as a kind of list monad transformer with the monad being transformed going between the list elements 18:23:01 zzo38, also, suggestion: (?) :: Bool -> x -> x -> x (like Bool) 18:23:12 s/ke B/ke b/ 18:24:04 Taneb: No, it is infix operation 18:24:41 response ? "yes" $ "no" 18:25:40 The way I have it you can do response ? ("no", "yes") but also with things other than booleans; see the class QuestionMarkOp 18:25:57 Ah, didn't see that 18:26:54 That works too 18:27:38 There appears to be no way to actually call idQMO, although it is mathematically correct as far as I can tell 18:34:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 19:04:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:24:02 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:24:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:34:01 http://nekogames.jp/g.html?gid=PRM 19:37:17 Well, who needs Diablo III? 19:37:35 i don't even understand what i'm doing but i can't stop playing!!! 19:39:26 The game is so much better once you remove those pesky plot, strategy and graphics aspects. 19:39:33 where is a zzo when you need one 19:39:56 apparently you need to fill that blue bar up to unlock things... taht seems difficult 19:40:00 *that 19:45:01 I shouldn't have unlcoked that tough guy. 19:45:22 No, you need the key to unlock things ... 19:45:32 Oh. So that was the only thing I could have unlocked? 19:45:35 I unlocked 108/108. 19:45:42 Should have gone for 80/80 or something. 19:46:08 How the heck did you get to the point that you could even kill this 32/32 wuss >_> 19:46:22 Or 46/46. 19:46:31 Gregor: When you finished a 100% thing, click it a bunch and you get money. 19:46:39 Then click the sword / armour things with prices on them. 19:46:44 They increase your stats. 19:46:50 You can also distribute your stats with the [+] button at the top. 19:46:59 After that it's just a matter of pressing it a bunch. 19:47:17 Mind you, I can't kill this 58/58 thing :( 19:47:31 Oh, I only upped my sword and armor once. 19:47:33 I guess I just need more. 19:49:07 I like how money is non-scarce. 19:49:10 Yowza. Facebook IPO'd today. Opening at $38, presently trading at $38.01. 19:49:39 pikhq_: and Zynga's down 15.7% 19:51:16 Yay, I killed 32 19:51:21 \o/ 19:51:22 | 19:51:22 /< 19:51:30 I think 36 is easier than 32, maybe. 19:51:34 Oh, there's two 36. 19:51:35 Fiendish. 19:51:58 * elliott is giving himself carpal tunnel to raise $860 for more hurty-things power. 19:52:10 elliott: Nice game. 19:52:14 The objective of the game is to complete it before your hands become too mangled to play. 19:52:19 elliott: name. 19:52:36 There are at least three 36en. 19:52:40 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:53:02 I defeated the rightmost 36! \o/ 19:53:02 | 19:53:02 /< 19:53:26 Still not quite good enough for 108. 19:55:24 You mean the locked 36? 19:55:35 The tall one at the right that's locked. 19:56:00 Oooh, so close to defeating 108. 19:56:12 What have I become... 19:58:06 Gregor: What letters have you got 19:58:06 ? 19:59:08 Yay, I killed 108. 19:59:29 Oooh, I have a gold key. 19:59:32 I have NEGE 19:59:41 NKOGAE here. 19:59:55 beautiful: tdwtf discussion about why most cronds don't have a field for year, zzo38 turns up and recommends sdate as a workaround 20:00:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:00:36 :D 20:00:42 thanks zzo 20:00:54 Hello! 20:01:08 hi Taneb 20:10:33 Gregor: Whoa, 390 hits hard. 20:10:55 -!- qfr has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:04 I stopped playing ;) 20:11:10 How could you! 20:11:16 It gets even more fun. 20:11:22 Same way I stopped using the tongue-face smiley. 20:11:24 Cold turkey. 20:15:25 Gregor: But there's slot machines! 20:16:31 There's also slot machines in Pokmon Emerald 20:17:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:21:16 Taneb: Play http://nekogames.jp/g.html?gid=PRM! 20:21:21 (If you want to.) 20:28:29 Gregor: I now have $15630 :D 20:28:31 AND YOU DON'T 20:28:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:28:43 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:12 shit that's more money than i have 20:34:19 how'd ya do it son? 20:34:26 quintopia: That's Zimbabwe dollars. 20:34:28 Clicking a lot. 20:34:53 Gregor: then how come it has a $ and not a ZWD 20:35:04 $ is the dollar sign, dude. 20:35:29 yes, and when you see it, you assume USD, and if that's not possible then CAD and then AUD respectively 20:35:38 you never assume a currency that no longer exists 20:37:29 Gregor: Most of the late-game consists of repeatedly hitting the slot machine until it turns up 777. 20:37:35 Then you get a lot of cash. 20:37:48 lol 20:37:59 (It spits out a bunch of $777s.) 20:38:34 elliott: You THINK it's the late game. But when you finally kill the big monster at the bottom, it'll just advance you to level 2. 20:38:37 *world 2 20:38:45 I already spoiled myself as to what comes next :P 20:38:51 It's a big boss with 999 HP. 20:38:58 Then that reveals a boss with 9999 HP. 20:39:01 After that the game ends. 20:41:04 GOD the combo bar is impossible to fill up. 20:41:49 Well, I defeated that boss. 20:41:54 And doubled my RCV! 20:43:13 Parameters cleared in 73:35:74 yaaaaay 20:43:26 And attack doubled! 20:44:38 Not quite tough enough to defeat the big bad yet :( 20:47:13 Yaaaay 20:47:43 Gregor: http://ompldr.org/vZHN2eQ 20:48:05 I'm not done yet, though. Oh no. 20:48:15 I must discover the remainin two ?s, and exhaust the remaining power-up things. 20:49:06 ais523: remind me never to complain about games again 20:49:21 heh 20:49:31 I clearly have no taste in them 20:49:53 elliott, wat 20:50:02 Phantom_Hoover: http://nekogames.jp/g.html?gid=PRM 20:50:05 Play it! 20:50:08 It's actually fun. 20:50:10 what 20:50:13 wow, is it really possible to talk on IRC over dbus? 20:50:18 haha, it is as well 20:50:18 Phantom_Hoover: Click "English". Then click plya. 20:50:19 *play. 20:50:22 what a pointless thing to be able to do 20:50:23 its not load:( 20:50:24 Finding out the rules is part of the game! 20:50:25 (I said that line over dbus) 20:50:46 KDE seem to have a policy of exposing commands in their applications over dbus by default 20:50:50 this time its load 20:50:57 Phantom_Hoover: It's Diablo III for reductionists. 20:51:07 ais523: inherited from the kcop stuff, I think 20:51:11 yes 20:51:31 so why doesn't KDE have a standard way of requesting the URL of the focused tab / all open tabs? 20:53:10 at this rate I'm going to have to come up with an API myself and patch it into EVERY LINUX PROGRAM IN EXISTENCE 20:53:23 iei! 20:53:29 Hmm, I think I get it. 20:54:44 * impomatic is trying Scalatron http://scalatron.github.com (Scala robot programming game) 21:04:26 Phantom_Hoover: How are you doing??? 21:04:46 I've run out of keys and I'm using up all my life too fast to kill anything. 21:05:27 I've ran out of keys and things to kill 21:05:32 Erm, why aren't you doing the missions? 21:05:35 Oh, no keys. 21:05:40 Phantom_Hoover: Have you been upping your stats? 21:05:45 That's what the [+] buttons do. 21:05:50 Yes. 21:05:53 I got a fair way. 21:05:53 Hmm. 21:05:55 Screenshot of your game? 21:06:00 I suspect I just didn't get enough def. 21:06:02 Taneb: Yours too, perhaps. 21:06:11 Current stats are 37/61/68. 21:06:19 You can get money by clicking completed missions, btw. 21:06:29 I think it'd be hard to get the game into a completely unwinnable state. 21:08:08 Sure, but what can I spend it on? 21:08:20 Well, that's why I asked for a screenshot :P 21:08:47 Ohhhh, there's a thing you can buy keys from. 21:08:51 Yeah. 21:09:23 SAME 21:09:26 :) 21:09:37 Taneb: The game isn't randomised, it's the same for everyone ;) 21:09:38 It's impossible to get the game to an unwinnable state. 21:09:50 I dunno, is the key-for-money thing always available? 21:09:58 I thought it was locked by a key or such. 21:10:50 I don't remember unlocking it 21:11:33 (what do the letters at the top mean?) 21:11:44 Well OK, it might be possible to do it by overextending hugely during the early game. 21:11:47 I don't think they do anything. 21:11:57 Except make you feel good about collecting them. 21:14:55 How are you meant to get the blocks with the question marks in them? 21:15:25 Phantom_Hoover: They unlock; I'm not sure what unlocks them, but as you level up and do stuff they appear; they're generally one-time stat boost things you can click. 21:15:36 I haven't unlocked the last few, though (got tired of hitting the slot machine over and over; will go back to it later). 21:16:19 You do mean the ones with the green things in them? 21:16:20 Taneb: Phantom_Hoover: One of you should try filling up the combo meter, since I'm terrible at it. :p 21:16:26 Green things? 21:16:29 Yes. 21:16:30 Combo meter?? Slot machine?? 21:16:42 The slot machine is one of the ?s that gets unlocked. 21:16:50 The combo meter is the meter below the ACT/DEF line. 21:16:53 Fills the width of the screen. 21:17:10 You need to pump up RCV a ton, then use the ACT. ++ block a bunch to raise your ACT. 21:17:23 Then you click a completed mission, get some of the gold (doesn't matter how much), and click it again before it expires. 21:17:25 Repeatedly. 21:17:27 Until the bar fills up. 21:17:44 I have 100 ACT and 222 RCV and even I'm not good enough to fill it. 21:18:57 But it's probably easier if you have a mouse, rather than a touchpad. 21:19:11 Ohhh, you mean the incredibly thin black bar that fills with dark blue? 21:19:15 Pro UI design there. 21:19:15 Yeah. 21:19:29 Heh, my game clock has rolled over to 99:99:99. 21:19:34 Not rolled over. 21:19:35 Saturated. 21:20:33 Awwww, I was so close to filling the combo bar. 21:21:57 Hmm, and how do you get the gold keys? 21:22:03 Defeating enemies. 21:22:09 None of them are behind gold keys, so. 21:23:00 Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and completing missions too, I think. 21:23:58 Phantom_Hoover: Argh, apparently at least one of the ?s is unlocked by filling the combo meter.. 21:24:18 *meter. 21:24:30 Oh, the good news is that you don't have to worry about collecting gold when doing it, because some of it hits your cursor by chance... 21:25:41 JESUS 21:25:45 I think I have RSI now. 21:25:48 But I filled the combo bar. 21:25:50 By just clicking. 21:25:51 A lot. 21:25:57 $200 xLv. 21:26:03 Ah. 21:26:06 It gives you $200 * how many levels you are. 21:26:11 Now I have $10969. 21:26:16 That's not all that much by my standards. :( 21:26:34 But at least I only need one more click to max out the $3558 armour power-up... 21:26:44 An there's only one ? left. 21:28:28 Filling the combo bar again does nothing. :( 21:29:10 Phantom_Hoover: By the way, if you find out what getting *** on the slot machine does, let me know. 21:29:14 I've never managed to. 21:29:44 Oh, I just did. 21:29:48 A bunch of $800s. Not bad! 21:29:54 Aha. 21:30:04 One click on the final power-up box unlocked the final ?. 21:30:07 It's ACT. +20. 21:32:28 It gives you shitloads of money, yeah. 21:32:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://retroprogramming.com). 21:32:58 Not as much as 777, I think (because that gives you more of them). 21:34:51 Only 6 power-ups to go before I can rest my weary mind... 21:36:41 Phantom_Hoover: OK, why did nobody warn humanity about things like this? 21:37:21 I mean, Orwell was all "hey guys don't become a totalitarian surveillance state" but did he say one bit about hollow, addicting RPGs??? 21:39:53 Yesssss 21:39:56 Only one power-up to go 21:41:03 Killed the final boss. 21:41:05 I WIN 21:41:11 Wow. 21:41:17 Right as I go to upload the image of me having won, my browser crashes. 21:41:20 That's... poetic. 21:41:31 Phantom_Hoover: The 999 HP one, or the 9999 HP one? 21:41:45 I guess the 999 HP one isn't exactly final. 21:41:45 Wait there are more final bosses? 21:41:53 I only got the 752 one! 21:42:04 Oh, yeah, there's a bit more than that. 21:42:12 Screenshot you're game and I'll tell you what's left to do. 21:42:15 (It's not much more than that, though.) 21:42:15 *your 21:42:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:51 I got to the Twitter thing. 21:42:57 Phantom_Hoover: That's not the end. 21:42:58 Still 1 ? left. 21:43:09 I really suck at this, it seems 21:43:16 Phantom_Hoover: That'll be the combo one, or the all-powerups one. 21:43:18 9999 boss unlocked. 21:43:18 Probably the latter. 21:43:23 But that isn't what you need to do to unlock the final boss. 21:43:24 OK. 21:43:45 Once you kill the 9999 boss, you just have to buy every power-up (that means at least once from each, not the whole 9 from each) to unlock the final ?. 21:44:00 Or if you already have, then it's the combo one; get your ACT and RCV up and just keep clicking one of the finished missions. 21:44:24 (I used the 100% one that's one left from the $860 x9 weapon power-up.) 21:44:28 Anyway, http://ompldr.org/vZHN3cA. 21:46:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:50:11 So what should I focus on for the 9999 boss? 21:50:18 Life seems to be the bottleneck. 21:50:44 Phantom_Hoover: Can I see a screenshot? Or at least all your current stats? 21:50:53 For me, I didn't really have to up anything; I just changed my tactic. 21:51:06 You regain health faster than the boss, so just keep an eye on your life meter, and only hit when it's >= a certain value. 21:51:19 So hit when you're >= 60 health, wait until it regains, hit again, and so on. 21:51:31 150 life, 80 act, 164/615/360. 21:51:34 But if you can afford them, just buy a bunch of the power-ups. 21:51:48 150 life is more than I had when defeating the boss. 21:51:56 You might want to up defences. 21:52:06 Phantom_Hoover: Have you used the ATK. x2 box yet? 21:52:13 I guess so, since it's higher than all your other stats. 21:52:20 Phantom_Hoover: Oh yeah, and the $200 Add Parm. box is useful. 21:52:29 If you have a lot of money, just spam it and you get one stat point per $200. 21:53:23 And now I just grind for cash? 21:53:32 Did you defeat the boss? 21:54:00 That counts as winning, according to the start screen. But I'm weird, so I had to buy all 9 of every power-up to be happy. 21:54:23 So how do you get the last ? 21:54:57 What *is* last? They all have different criteria. I keep asking for a screenshot for a reason. 21:56:57 Phantom_Hoover: At least tell me where it is? 21:57:24 Top-right. 21:57:53 That's the combo one. Just click a completed mission fast for ages until the combo bar fills up. 21:58:06 I used the wide one to the left of $860 x9 weapon in the top-left. 21:58:10 Don't worry about picking up the gold. 22:03:19 Sorry no, my wrists refuse to cooperate. 22:03:50 It's worth it! 22:04:22 @ask monqy 23:04 Yeah, Meph is a workhorse spell, you spam it at almost everything. 22:04:22 Consider it noted. 22:15:17 -!- cswords has joined. 22:44:06 wow, I just saw a TV advert for IE9 22:44:16 * ais523 wonders why people go around advertising browsers 22:50:43 because some people use different browser than IE and microsoft doesn't like that 22:52:34 I finnished my CPU design few minutes ago. It is RISC style stack machine with conditional execution bit. 22:56:54 -!- monqy has joined. 22:58:35 @messages? 22:58:35 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:58:38 only one? 22:58:39 tsk tsk 22:58:53 what a message :'( 23:03:05 :') 23:03:10 17:22 monqy asked 10h 46m 57s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 23:03:10 17:22 monqy asked 10h 46m 56s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 23:03:10 17:22 monqy asked 10h 46m 56s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 23:03:12 17:22 monqy asked 10h 46m 54s ago: you have elliptic linked to your account tomorrow 23:03:14 17:22 Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed 23:03:16 i didn't get all of your messages 23:03:24 (there were more before that though) 23:03:45 oh no 23:03:50 you missed all of the exciting variations 23:03:51 and 23:03:52 -!- nortti_ has joined. 23:03:54 things that weren't that 23:04:01 there was so much message excitement 23:04:09 there were variations??? 23:04:40 yes 23:04:47 post-threadkill 23:06:30 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:26 who was it here who was going to build his/her own computer architecture? 23:14:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:25:43 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:29:11 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:29:28 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:47:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 2012-05-19: 00:00:12 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:04:43 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:04:59 -!- nortti_ has quit. 00:08:56 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:13:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:13:54 -!- augur has joined. 00:23:04 -!- nys has joined. 00:43:39 -!- nooga has joined. 00:46:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:54:04 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:25:26 Patashu: hey 01:25:36 sup? 01:25:42 Patashu: do you wanna see what a scroll of acquirement gave me after under 4000 turns of play in crawl light 01:25:47 p - the +23 crystal plate mail of Inaction (worn) {rPois Acc+2 Dam+2} 01:25:48 sure 01:25:50 wtf 01:25:51 plus 01:25:51 fucking 01:25:52 23 01:25:54 yes 01:26:01 what is your ac in it 01:26:16 iirc st_ got a pretty good artefact cpa the other day in regular crawl too 01:26:17 my AC is 54, along with my +1 helmet and +0 cloak and +0 boots 01:26:21 maybe it was someone else thouugh 01:26:33 and it might hav been on a robin 01:26:41 (crawl light doesn't buff acquirement or whatever (except that you can see what you'll get before deciding so i didn't just say "hey gimme armour")) 01:26:54 that's actually a real big acq buff 01:26:59 yeah it is but i mean 01:27:02 it doesn't buff the actual generation 01:27:05 right 01:32:10 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:33:47 Patashu: my EV only just now hit 6 though 01:34:00 not that it matters for you at the moment 01:34:18 _You see here a serpentine rune of Zot. 01:34:18 _You can't carry that many items. 01:34:32 remember how runes used to be actual items that you carried in your inventory 01:34:35 me too 01:35:08 Patashu: also I just got my first rune \o/ 01:35:08 | 01:35:08 |\ 01:35:08 ever 01:35:10 oh wait 01:35:12 i just pasted that here 01:35:12 oops 01:35:16 in crawl light? 01:35:18 or in crawl 01:35:24 Light, but "Light" doesn't mean "easier" 01:35:31 i'm actually playing on 01:35:32 ~hard mode~ 01:35:40 Light just means "no hunger and no curses and no stupid identification game" 01:35:48 and i'm playing DD because i also want "no regen over time" 01:35:49 it's lovely 01:36:02 what's ~hard mode~ like 01:36:06 you're not playing on hard mode 01:36:19 monqy: yes i am! 01:36:20 you're playing on medium mode. hasn't hard mode not been fully implemented yet? 01:36:20 i opened the pandoora 01:36:23 well ok 01:36:24 but it's 01:36:29 you only opened the first pandoora! 01:36:31 harder than the baseline mode 01:36:36 yes sure 01:36:36 monqy: i'm going to open the second!!! 01:36:37 what is this 01:36:41 pandoora is a door 01:36:44 when you open it the game gets harder 01:36:47 it's a light thing 01:36:51 ok 01:36:52 where is it 01:36:56 where's what 01:37:05 pandoora 01:37:06 the portal to the first pandoora is randomly generated 01:37:11 second pandoora is at the end of the hive if you opened the first pandoora 01:37:14 (which makes hive harder) 01:39:40 Patashu: if you want to see pandoora-hive you can watch me i'll probably go there next 01:40:05 ok 01:40:49 02:40 easymode hive has PHAT LOOT liek swords or books or someting 01:40:49 02:40 if you open the first pandoora, hive will only have potions and the second pandoora when dtsund implements it 01:40:49 02:40 but as of now all it is is a normal stone soup hive 01:40:52 ok it probably won't be that interesting 01:40:57 Patashu: oh it's telnet light.bitprayer.com 01:41:38 18:41:05 < quairlzr> Satonakaja: you missed it 01:41:39 18:41:10 < quairlzr> both doors are in now 01:41:49 right 01:41:49 ok 01:48:06 Patashu: help 01:48:15 i accidentally read tele and now i'm trapped by deep water 01:48:22 and reading tele again just put me in the same place 01:48:25 disint the wax 01:48:27 or fire it 01:48:36 you have wands right 01:48:40 i have digging 01:48:43 wouldn't that be better 01:48:56 or you can use digging to get around the water if that isn't the level boundary 01:48:59 digging doesn't cut wax 01:49:01 disint and fire do 01:49:02 oh 01:49:12 wow nice 01:49:54 another exec axe???? 01:50:12 eh 01:50:15 i guess what i have is better 01:50:34 I like the glow meter 01:50:38 that's something normal crawl needs 01:50:45 or wait 01:50:47 isn't it different in crawl light 01:50:48 glow is the berk penalty 01:51:00 You open the killer bee like a pillowcase!!! 01:51:02 mmm 01:51:17 yay 01:51:20 a less shitty anti-magic axe 01:51:50 hive looks pretty 01:51:51 wow i see why they removed hive 01:51:51 Patashu: light uses glow instead of food for spell/invo/evo/etc costs so it's more important to have precise glow information 01:51:52 I want to say trivial 01:51:53 but dumb 01:51:59 yeah i think they removed hive because it was too easy 01:52:00 and gave tons of loot 01:52:12 and because it's just boring 01:52:20 a level full of bees and only bees, "seriously?" 01:52:29 bee warrior 01:52:31 bee mage 01:52:36 bees knees 01:52:39 a unique bee 01:52:46 maybe i should like 01:52:49 a bee with 100 speed, haste and swiftness 01:52:53 actually enchant some stuff some da 01:52:54 *day 01:53:24 don't bother ehcnating stuff you're not going to use; you aren't in any shortage of ac/whatever 01:53:30 i meant 01:53:32 weapons 01:53:47 you're fine off with what you have there too 01:53:51 for now at least 01:54:03 and you might find something really cool like a vampiric axe 01:54:09 _Found the -5 chain mail of Agoraphobia {+Inv Acc+3}. 01:54:12 unrandarts are weird 01:54:36 so uh 01:54:37 where's the pandoora 01:55:02 idk 01:55:04 Xmap it? 01:55:17 try the far left 01:55:28 lol 01:55:29 either a secret door or you can burn/disint it 01:56:03 or dig it since it's rock 01:56:10 (is it rock? 01:56:13 rock 01:56:17 oh unnatural rock 01:56:21 dig the soft rock 01:56:29 maybe you will find a door 01:56:29 where 01:56:38 the rock that's not listed as unnaturally hard 01:56:41 use digging on it 01:56:58 what rock 01:57:17 there is none 01:57:51 below you? 01:58:21 02:58 that's a bee castle 01:58:28 Patashu: not hive 01:58:29 bee castle 01:58:59 fort ludios 01:59:00 but with bees 01:59:36 no hunger, right? 01:59:40 grind a teletrap until you tele past it? 01:59:45 "fun" 01:59:50 heh 02:01:20 Patashu: oh it actually is 02:01:22 nethacky 02:01:25 NAME: bee_castle_nethack 02:01:28 haha 02:01:30 it's nethack's castle 02:01:31 but with bees 02:02:37 terrible 02:02:49 Patashu: join #crawllight btw 02:02:52 if you want to see the 02:02:54 ~figuring out process~ 02:11:07 18:59:40 < Patashu> grind a teletrap until you tele past it? 02:11:15 there's no_tele_into 02:23:32 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:28:17 -!- ion has joined. 02:33:30 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:22:53 -!- itidus20 has joined. 03:27:29 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:55:31 kmc: Does "heard" even have any vowels? 03:59:30 h-schwa-r-d 03:59:38 ? 04:00:01 no...it's got vowels...sorry 04:00:34 Oh...you were taking to someone else...sorry. 05:15:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:16:12 Is that really a schwa? 05:17:20 it's close 05:19:21 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 05:31:13 -!- itidus22 has joined. 05:34:56 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:01:44 -!- augur has joined. 06:16:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:16:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:25:37 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:27:40 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:31:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:31:26 Patashu: how do you kill boris 06:31:51 use silence and tab him 06:32:16 oh i have silence 06:32:16 neat 06:54:44 elliott, how do you pronounce the name of the letter z? 06:54:54 zed or zee "it depends" 06:55:07 zoo 06:55:16 I have not even heard of it being pronounced zed until a few minutes ago 06:55:22 zed is the standard british pronunciation 06:55:23 Reading some Internet Oracularities 06:58:32 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 06:58:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:06:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:13:06 ...And I call myself a Stargate Atlantis fan 07:27:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://retroprogramming.com). 07:28:25 The Internet Oracle is a few months younger than I am 07:29:31 The "zee/zed" thing stops me from using x and y as variables. :-( 07:29:39 I'm always nervous. What if z comes next?! 07:30:24 And then after z it's a real problem. 07:30:27 What do you use, w? 07:30:33 w is my least favorite English letter, by the way. 07:46:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:55:09 -!- itidus20 has joined. 07:58:54 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:02:22 Patashu: you should help me not die 08:02:26 in a more helpful manner than monqy 08:02:49 Patashu: you wouldn't believe how hard it was to get elliott to use a vamp battleaxe on a ddbe!! 08:02:57 haha 08:03:06 :( 08:03:07 elliott: Can I help you not die? 08:03:40 Patashu: i'm dying lots because of hell fiends and other nasty things 08:03:43 by dying i mean 08:03:43 losing hp 08:03:59 also i have four runes 08:04:00 in fact 08:04:04 i think i'm carrying three of them 08:04:11 yes, i am 08:04:15 monqy: should i be carrying these runes 08:04:24 no they're wasted inventory space 08:04:30 stash them or something once you get a chance 08:05:24 ok so uh 08:05:29 i guess i won't bother with elf:3 08:05:34 Patashu: how scary is zot:1 08:06:12 that depends 08:06:14 compared to what 08:06:18 idk 08:06:20 anything 08:06:23 elliott's char is op so it should be easy 08:06:26 vaults:8 except 08:06:29 vaults:5 in light 08:06:35 monqy: but 08:06:35 demons 08:06:37 and fire blasts 08:06:38 and stuff 08:06:51 I think zot:1 is easier than vaults:8 08:06:55 because it has less shit and a less open layout 08:07:01 that doesn't mean the monsters in it are trivial 08:07:12 elf end is also commonly considered easier than v8!!! 08:07:27 i usually just don't do elf though 08:07:37 the only good level is the ending and the rest is ugh 08:07:44 the ending is awful!!!!! 08:07:51 that's because you goofed it 08:08:03 ok uh 08:08:08 is that throwing net useful for anything at this point in the game 08:08:23 style 08:08:38 i'll take that as a no 08:09:52 is that enough scrolls for zot:1 08:10:45 btw uh 08:10:51 i have no idea how to use these rods 08:10:57 but i have a feeling it's pointless taking them to zot 08:12:09 Patashu: help :'( 08:12:17 crawl is complicated 08:12:29 how to use rods 08:12:31 1) wield 08:12:32 2) v 08:12:40 yes but i mean 08:12:44 ~tactically~ 08:13:28 V - a +5 rod of summoning (10/10) 08:13:28 Z - a +3 rod of destruction [lightning,iron,fireball] (10/10) 08:13:32 Patashu: should i take these to zot 08:13:55 uh, if you wanyt 08:14:00 if you end up not needing them just drop them 08:15:31 monqy: Patashu: im zot 08:16:05 The chilling blast hits you! 08:16:05 _Two of your 12 potions of healing freeze and shatter! 08:16:05 ok um 08:16:13 is everything on zot:1 cold or something 08:16:16 because 08:16:18 i have two rings of rF on 08:16:19 white draconians 08:16:19 ice dragons 08:16:22 and golden dragons 08:16:23 and i've seen an ice dragon 08:16:23 and 08:16:24 yeah 08:16:27 is anything firey on zot:1 08:16:27 and ancient liches 08:16:30 that should be it 08:16:31 yes 08:16:32 orbs of fire 08:16:36 and whichever draconian colour is fire 08:16:36 and 08:16:37 golden dragons 08:16:38 and 08:16:38 dragons 08:16:43 drac scorchers 08:16:45 wtf 08:16:46 is with 08:16:46 zot 08:16:50 how are you meant to resist all this crap 08:16:51 hm? 08:16:53 drac annihlators do every element I think 08:16:55 well 08:17:03 swap to one pip of rF and one pip of rC 08:17:10 i don't have rC 08:17:11 just 08:17:12 when you see something you know only does one (like an orb of fire) you can swap to 2 of it 08:17:12 you don't look like you're having trouble 08:17:12 oh 08:17:13 rC+, rF_ 08:17:13 really? 08:17:14 *rF- 08:17:17 well, tank it then 08:17:37 monqy: well my scrolls are all catching fire 08:17:42 and this draconian refuses to walk up to me 08:17:52 shit why do i have all these scrolls with me 08:19:00 i dont know 08:20:11 ha 08:20:15 all my scrolls gone apart from tele 08:20:26 only one scroll of blinking left in the game and it's not mine 08:21:43 ehhh 08:21:54 i should just get the orb and be happy with the runes i have i guess 08:22:36 why is this black draconian red 08:22:38 life mysteries 08:24:47 oh 08:24:49 an orb of fire 08:24:52 Patashu: how do you kill orbs of fire 08:26:11 hit it a lot 08:26:12 don't die to fire 08:26:14 and don't die to mutations 08:26:23 also, it's 150% speed 08:26:25 use antimagic 08:26:29 Patashu: are you sure 08:26:38 Patashu: remember light reverted haste nerf 08:26:43 you mean 08:26:47 they're 200% speed in crawl light? 08:26:48 also 08:26:49 use antimagic yes 08:26:50 could be 08:26:53 for all i know 08:27:07 i got delevelled :( 08:27:26 how dumb is berking an orb of fire 08:28:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:28:22 Hello 08:28:30 if crawl light has the op version of berk 08:28:33 doesn't sound too bad 08:28:50 You slice the orb of fire!! 08:28:52 what 08:29:34 Wait a moment, elliott! Do you really want to walk there? 08:29:36 uh 08:30:06 that's zot:1 cleared 08:30:54 feels pyrrhic 08:31:55 where to now!!! 08:32:48 well 08:32:52 did you see the part where all my scrolls got destroyed 08:33:46 monqy: honestly 08:33:49 if I had conservation 08:33:52 I'd be fine 08:33:53 I don't 08:34:48 elf3 for conservation!!! 08:35:09 huh? 08:35:11 would elf:3 have conservation? 08:36:42 monqy: ? 08:37:53 loot 08:38:33 ok then 08:39:27 ok 08:39:30 this is the problematic situation 08:39:37 i guess i need to kill the conjurer fast 08:39:45 monqy: yeah uh 08:39:50 hopefully you can see the problem 08:41:24 are you letting them all hit you at once 08:41:26 oops don't do that! 08:41:35 the idea was 08:41:44 to kill the ones that summon the awful demons first 08:41:44 but 08:42:06 might want to use the vamp axe some too 08:42:11 your hp is getting a dear bit low!! 08:42:21 yes 08:42:21 well 08:42:27 do you have any suggestions 08:42:34 don't do whatever you did 08:42:41 sigh 08:43:23 monqy: ok watch 08:43:34 i'm watching 08:43:42 ok it might finally go well for once since I got rid of the high priest 08:45:47 see 08:45:50 now it's all going terribly :( 08:47:08 monqy: :( 08:47:21 hm? 08:47:26 oh yeah don't fight like that jeez 08:47:32 see if you watched 08:47:36 you'd have saw how i got into this situation :P 08:47:40 *seen 08:48:34 aaaand again 08:48:36 this is pointless 08:48:36 sigh 08:49:50 oh dear what happened to you 08:50:38 I think I'll probably die in the next few turns and there's a bunch of stuff between me and the stairs, so I guess it's hopeless. 08:51:39 I suppose I could read tele, but I have a sneaking suspicion I wouldn't survive to see the other side of it. 08:53:00 monqy: Anyway, suggestions welcome. 08:53:33 most danger about tele is in teleporting into the vault 08:54:14 I would say the most danger is the fact that I had a lot more than 45 HP last turn and so am probably going to have a lot less than it next turn... 08:54:48 about tele specificially 08:55:46 see look you didn't die 08:56:15 Just wait 'til I get back there... 08:56:31 See? 08:56:38 what did you do 08:56:42 What was that, anyway? 08:56:47 Lightning and crystal spear. 08:56:50 monqy: Killed things. 08:57:04 I can't exactly stop things casting spells at me when I'm walking up to them. 08:57:17 hint: don't walk up to them 08:57:43 monqy: I had nowhere to duck and if I just sat there the same would happen. 08:57:58 maybe find somewhere to duck 08:58:09 or move such that you have somewhere to duck 08:58:25 i.e., run away along the corridor, during which time the same would have happened. 08:58:59 You occasionally shout uncontrollably. 08:59:04 Apparently I got another mutation while I wasn't looking. 09:00:14 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:44 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:00:48 That corridor is going to have the exact same situation in it as it did last time I was in it, so I'm really not sure what my options are. 09:04:57 Aw, fuck. 09:05:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:08:58 sigh 09:09:46 monqy: ok, how *are* you meant to handle deep elf demonologists when there are no corridors you can get to without traversing terrain with a bunch of elves that will kill you 09:10:56 i don't know how that happened to you!! 09:11:20 Simple; I retreated from other stuff back here, and there was a deep elf demonologist. 09:11:42 I couldn't retreat backwards since that'd put me back into the stuff I was retreating from, so I walked up to it to kill it before it could summon anything, but it was too quick. 09:13:58 Anyway, I don't know what to do at this point. 09:16:19 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 09:16:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:17:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:18:43 Patashu: You should save me. 09:19:35 i'm preoccupied 09:19:50 telnet to what? 09:20:15 Patashu: light.bitprayer.com 09:20:33 nice 09:20:37 you have 57 ac though 09:20:39 why not just zap tele 09:20:57 "you have 57 ac" dude 09:21:02 i'm still losing like 20, 30 hp per turn 09:21:25 the 57 ac really isn't a panacea 09:21:36 shrug, you still want to tele 09:21:46 cool 09:21:48 that 09:21:48 so much better now 09:21:49 sort of helped 09:21:53 except there's elves down there 09:21:57 could re-tele 09:22:22 think i'll just get the hell out 09:22:47 anyway, yes 09:22:50 57 ac doesn't help against everything 09:22:54 but it sure as fuck helps against execs 09:23:11 ugh i suppose i should just go to zot 09:23:20 since there's obviously no way i'll survive a 15-runer 09:23:28 lol 09:23:30 not as a dd of trog, no 09:23:34 (torment torment torment torment smite) 09:24:18 i could always convert 09:24:18 but 09:24:26 i think i'm too shit a player to survive is what i meant 09:24:36 trog wrath is kind of hard to deal with 09:24:41 though with no hunger you could scummily deal with it 09:25:34 ehhh 09:25:42 what's so bad about trog wrath for a character like me? 09:25:46 i can kill pretty much any melee monster 09:25:55 it's spellcasters that beat me down 09:26:02 getting surrounded by 20 zerk stone giants and bears is kind of hard to deal with 09:26:34 what's the scummy way 09:26:41 tomb 09:26:41 or 09:26:47 corridor with something like a rat blocking you in 09:26:59 then 5 until trog is mollified 09:27:06 monqy: tell Patashu he's awful 09:27:13 Patashu: you're awful 09:27:13 then swap to tso 09:27:15 finish crypt 09:27:19 and do pan then hells 09:27:36 Patashu: did you see elliott doing crypt 09:27:43 no, I was eating dinner 09:27:45 was ith ard 09:27:58 fsvo hard 09:28:50 i could probably take crypt now 09:28:53 maybe 09:29:02 Patashu: do you want to see me die in crypt 09:29:06 elliott: so are you converting or not, and are you still planning on allruning 09:29:12 monqy: i don't know 09:29:21 i doubt i'll all-rune without converting 09:29:26 that sounds ~impossible 09:29:51 it's technically possible but lol, torment 09:29:59 who are the viable ddbe extended game gods then 09:30:01 tso, ? 09:30:14 makhleb is like tso but makhleb instead of tso 09:30:25 hmm 09:30:31 what does makhleb offer over trog 09:30:35 if you're going to convert you may as well convert to tso 09:30:41 makhleb offers: healing on kills, ??? 09:32:10 tso offers healing on evil kills, which is pretty much 100% of extended 09:32:15 also holy branding 09:32:20 and angels and stuff 09:32:21 holy helps more than vampiric in end game 09:32:24 yeah 09:32:24 since vampiric doesn't work on demons 09:32:29 while holy gives 75% damage boost 09:32:29 yeah 09:32:30 also 09:32:35 tso gives you cleansing flame 09:32:37 monqy: yeah but 09:32:38 which is good at high invo 09:32:39 divine shield 09:32:41 and if you rely on trog's hand for healing you will exhaust your piety megaquickly 09:32:43 which is good similarly 09:32:43 what does makhleb offer over trog for extended, I'm confused 09:32:48 healing on kills 09:32:48 healing on kills 09:32:53 well ok 09:33:04 tso seems like a pain because 09:33:16 doesn't it get angry at you if you do $stuff 09:33:33 tso isn't as uptight about stuff you do to demons 09:33:41 anyway if i'm going to convert i guess it should be before i finish off crypt? 09:33:48 worst it'd affect you is you can't use your vamp or draining weapons 09:33:59 yes, you'd have to grind with a different weapon 09:34:03 until you get holy branding 09:34:16 oh i can't use vamp? 09:34:23 that's... annoying 09:34:23 vampiric is evil 09:34:30 well, you'd be holy branding it anyway 09:34:31 for endgame 09:34:36 yeah but 09:34:40 vamp is nice for hp 09:34:49 i don't know if hp on evil kills would be enough 09:35:19 vamp won't help you in extended 09:35:25 except on the rare living thing 09:35:28 like ice dragons in coc 09:36:03 Patashu: btw is hall of blades as horrible as they say 09:36:19 it depends on your character 09:36:25 but pretty much everything there is faster than a normal speed char 09:36:28 there are lots of reaching weapons 09:36:32 and an unlucky brand might fuck you up 09:36:39 if you have good escape mechanisms blade is ok 09:37:25 what about if you have crappy escape mechanisms but 57 AC 09:38:20 hmm 09:38:43 idk i just want to put off the decision of converting to another god 09:38:43 you can try it 09:38:44 and also 09:38:46 be somewhere without spellcasters 09:38:49 and summoners 09:38:52 and bullshit like that 09:38:54 (uniques can appear in blade) 09:38:58 ugh 09:39:02 what uniques 09:39:14 any 09:39:33 oh great there's disto 09:39:34 10:39 hall of blades[6/6]: the real experience you gain is "don't do blade" 09:39:35 welp 09:39:41 should i take anything special 09:40:15 also I guess rFire isn't that important in blades? 09:40:23 there can be weapons of flaming 09:40:24 and freezing 09:40:24 and so on 09:40:28 ugh 09:40:34 i'll just go for it 09:40:42 oh uh 09:40:44 will vamp work 09:40:47 s/ $// 09:40:49 i.e. 09:40:51 can it heal me 09:40:56 for hitting blades 09:40:57 of course no 09:41:00 they're fucking swords 09:41:17 feature request: they're not fucking swords 09:41:20 and ok that makes things 09:41:22 difficult 09:41:28 since that's how i heal these days 09:41:30 uhh 09:41:34 does killing them give piety 09:41:42 & also will anti-magic do anything fancy to them 09:41:52 (& also will draining do anything fancy to them) 09:45:53 thanks Patashu :( 09:46:18 hmm 09:46:18 dunno 09:46:20 no 09:46:21 no 09:46:22 in order 09:46:27 gr8 09:46:33 time to splat 09:47:17 HAAAA 09:47:19 Patashu: mennas 09:47:28 what's a silent disciple 09:47:31 is that a crawl light thing 09:47:33 also, get the fuck out of blade 09:47:34 no 09:47:35 it just 09:47:36 silences 09:47:39 wherever it stands 09:47:42 ok 09:47:45 i take it i stand no chances against mennas 09:47:50 well hmm 09:47:54 whoa "He" 09:47:54 I guess you are kind of diesel 09:48:01 I thought Crawl avoided giving genders to monsters 09:48:05 or is that a post-0.8 thing 09:48:08 uniques have gender 09:48:10 like mara is a he 09:48:13 ah 09:48:17 anyway uhhh 09:48:33 zap haste at yourself 09:48:36 and try to kill mennas 09:48:37 it might work 09:48:43 what about the silent disciples and shit 09:48:46 just ignore them? 09:48:47 idk 09:48:48 do they hit hard? 09:48:51 no 09:49:05 wow 09:49:08 you just opened a sword like a pillowcase 09:49:08 what 09:49:08 nice 09:49:10 haha 09:49:24 ok yeah 09:49:24 wow 09:49:25 you're diesel 09:49:26 that was 09:49:26 go do zot 09:49:30 haha yeah but 09:49:30 in zot 09:49:34 well 09:49:37 let's put it this way 09:49:39 i can kill anything in melee 09:49:46 what i can't kill is stuff that summons 09:49:48 or throws fire at me 09:49:51 or throws bolts of cold at me 09:49:52 etc. 09:49:56 and especially my items can't survive that 09:49:59 so basically when i did zot:1 09:50:09 it was uneventful except all my scrolls got destroyed 09:50:25 and i kept losing hp whenever I fought something that did blasts of stuff 09:50:31 if everything just did melee 09:50:32 then i'd be fine 09:51:49 _gruevy's ghost (mighty High Elf Ice Elementalist) comes into view. 09:51:50 hi 09:52:05 god 09:52:07 everything just dies 09:52:14 hi xtahua 09:52:14 hahahahaha 09:52:19 !learn add famous_last_words 09:52:28 you have rf 09:52:31 he's a harmless teddybeatr 09:52:35 really? 09:52:35 ok 09:52:38 pretty much 09:52:40 xtahua with rF- is where it's at 09:52:46 yes 09:52:48 wow so he is 09:52:55 xtahua_mummy_tabbers 09:52:56 you also have: so much ac, vamp battleaxe 09:53:01 so 09:53:04 is blades meant to be this easy 09:53:09 you have 58 ax 09:53:10 *ac 09:53:15 Patashu: did you see that ttyrec of the spsomething that came out of an ice cave into xtahua with rF- 09:53:34 do you know where I can find it 09:53:36 hmm 09:53:39 maybe 09:53:43 so 09:53:46 what should i do now 09:53:53 ehh 09:53:55 i'll do crypt 09:53:56 that one, right 09:53:56 without converting 09:54:11 Patashu: you get to help me do (the last level of) crypt 09:54:21 ok 09:54:42 observe: the previous disaster 09:54:49 oh no 09:54:52 not...liches 09:54:54 ;_; 09:54:54 no it 09:54:57 it spammed summons 09:54:58 and 09:54:59 hell fiend 09:54:59 and 09:55:01 yeah 09:55:02 ?tele 09:55:02 Plugin `tell' failed with: Prelude.head: empty list 09:55:04 hellfire 09:55:06 Your Friend 09:55:06 no i just 09:55:09 walked upstairs 09:55:13 I was trying to get elliott to experience the magic and wonder of liches behind glass 09:55:24 the magic and wonder being that if you step on the items it sets the liches free on you 09:55:36 :( 09:55:53 the best thing about light is 09:55:55 no monster regeneration 09:55:59 ever? 09:55:59 wow 09:56:45 _The curse skull gives a chilling moan. 09:56:46 creys 09:57:03 anyway 09:57:09 where should i enter 09:57:46 i guess from the same place 09:57:46 since 09:57:47 staircase 09:57:57 oh hmm 09:58:03 how about from here 09:58:08 better chokepoint and another staircase 09:58:10 yeah that'd be better 09:58:18 wow thanks autotravel 09:58:20 you ruined everything 09:58:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:58:28 Patashu: !lg * sp killer=xtahua max=dam -tv:<0.3 09:58:35 thanks 09:58:44 I forgot I stopped watching it half way through because it was boring 09:59:00 ice cave can appear as late as vaults? lol 09:59:05 hahahaha 09:59:06 hahahahahaha 09:59:08 tabbing_unreasons 09:59:14 didn't matter 09:59:16 killed on first turn 09:59:23 ok so 09:59:25 i've dealt with one of the liches 10:00:14 tada 10:00:16 liches disposed of 10:00:39 _There is a click. Suddenly, the liches are set free! 10:00:41 WRONG 10:00:56 Sif Muna's Volume of Snow and the Voyage 10:00:58 literally the most boring book 10:01:00 that seems to be an oversight 10:01:06 shouldn't it only say that if there are still iches trapped there 10:01:27 0.8_unreasons 10:01:45 well 10:01:48 that's crypt done 10:01:57 hmmm 10:02:11 just do zot 10:02:13 Patashu: btw is there any feasible way for me to get conservation at this point 10:02:14 what are you going to get by putting it off 10:02:21 elliott: do a zig maybe 10:02:21 well 10:02:22 ok 10:02:24 I'll do Zot:2 10:02:32 but I still don't know if I want to 15-rune or not 10:02:57 I wouldn't 10:03:13 :( 10:03:15 why 10:03:53 I mean, you could if you want to 10:04:01 but you don't have any way of dealing with certain parts of hell/pan 10:04:02 atm 10:04:31 i guess so 10:04:37 wouldn't converting to tso mitigate that though 10:05:25 "You are alive." 10:05:26 thanks crawl 10:05:56 how do you plan on getting tso piety though 10:06:00 scum abyss? 10:06:01 I guess it'd work 10:06:25 idk 10:06:29 monqy: how do i plan on getting tso piety 10:06:41 kill evil things 10:06:56 potions of speed are useless if i have haste right 10:07:08 doing crypt 10:07:12 monqy: "too late" 10:07:17 i finished crypt 10:07:31 doing abyss maybe? idk 10:07:47 does trog wrath happen in abyss too 10:07:48 that sounds fun 10:08:27 anyway 10:08:28 zot:2 time 10:08:34 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:08:48 whoops 10:08:50 wrong one 10:08:52 meant to do healing 10:09:53 haaa 10:09:55 nice 10:10:10 btw 10:10:14 prioritize mths of wrath 10:10:16 since they berk shit 10:10:19 and berked shit takes forever to kill 10:10:26 not really 10:10:29 You have reached level 27, the final one! 10:10:32 uhhh 10:10:36 should i raise str or dex :p 10:10:43 str I guess 10:10:47 you're not getting much out of your ev 10:10:49 *dex 10:11:45 haaa 10:11:47 thanks moth 10:12:25 * Sgeo wonders if he has Dilbert Desktop Games around somewhere 10:14:09 Your +23 crystal plate mail prevents you from hitting the white draconian. 10:14:14 Patashu: i love how i'm still getting these messages 10:14:34 crawl: really weird if you get +23 cpa in the really early game 10:14:42 even with 27 armour it still stops you sometimes 10:14:56 need 10:14:58 *neat 10:15:01 draconian with a disto sword 10:15:04 tele time 10:15:54 ok uh 10:15:56 that's zot:2 done 10:16:03 the last level of zot is always a lot harder right 10:16:55 i mean 10:16:59 i could just clear zot:3 i guess 10:17:02 but i dunno if that's suicidal or not 10:18:39 thanks Patashu 10:25:10 ok uhhh 10:25:12 this has to be a terrible idea 10:26:37 monqy: tell me i'm an idiot 10:26:58 elliott: you're an idiot 10:27:01 thank you 10:27:01 elliott: ps what are you doing 10:27:03 i'm on zot:3 10:27:05 it's scary as hell 10:27:09 kool 10:29:16 gulp 10:29:21 wow 10:29:22 holy shit 10:29:23 ahahaha 10:29:25 monqy: look at this 10:29:28 look what i find 10:29:29 on zot 10:29:31 fucking 10:29:33 3 10:29:54 elliott: that happened with my ghck too 10:30:06 elliott: no conservation all game then i found a cloak of pres on zot5 10:30:12 nice 10:30:17 is resist mutation useful in zot 10:31:27 Patashu: is resist mutation useful in zot :( 10:31:44 yes 10:31:45 against orbs of fire 10:31:51 (and draconian shifters I think?) 10:32:33 ok 10:32:34 well 10:32:37 i have an amulet of conservation 10:32:40 and an amulet of resist mutation 10:32:47 is it ok to put on conservation 10:32:51 and switch to mutation when i see one of those 10:32:53 or is that too risky 10:33:37 elliott: Did you solve the EXCITING PUZZLE? 10:33:45 no 10:34:05 Did you see the EXCITING PUZZLE? 10:34:33 probably 10:34:40 busy solving a different puzzle 10:36:02 Is it the puzzle where when you solve it you win at Crawl? 10:36:22 s/Crawl/Crawl Light/ 10:36:35 Is that a brand of cigarettes? 10:36:41 uhhh 10:36:42 Patashu: help 10:36:57 do you have an axe of antimagic? 10:36:59 if no: 10:37:02 do you have a scroll of silence? 10:37:03 if no: 10:37:05 yes, i have antimagic 10:37:05 fuck it, just tab it 10:37:09 swap to antimagic and tab 10:37:25 done 10:37:31 btw 10:37:35 there's zot traps in predictable places right 10:37:40 I have no idea 10:37:42 ok 10:38:02 oh boy 10:38:20 put on relec for electric shooters, yes 10:38:29 does vamp work on electric golems 10:38:40 no 10:38:47 do vamps dream of electric golems 10:38:59 faster though 10:39:15 haha shit 10:41:14 euhh 10:41:27 haste, duck behind cover 10:41:28 imo 10:41:28 killer klowns are awful right 10:41:39 I don't think killer klowns even do anything 10:41:45 11:41 killer klown[1/5]: Not a truly unique monster, but emotes like a unique and is very powerful. Causes rotting, is very resistant to magic, and is as fast as a centaur. Fortunately, it has no elemental resistances. 10:42:38 nice ghoul 10:42:41 oh wait 10:42:44 i'm in los of ancient lich 10:42:47 stupid stupid stupid 10:43:37 ugh 10:43:40 guess i'll just punch through to it 10:44:03 lol 10:44:04 nice rot 10:44:08 a whole 9 hp of it 10:44:10 that was there from before :P 10:44:12 actually 10:44:15 they haven't rot me at all yet 10:44:39 is that vampire summoning these 10:45:00 I don't think vampires can summon anything but mammals 10:45:02 unless it changed in light 10:45:15 -!- derdon has joined. 10:45:29 fuck 10:48:08 nice orb 10:48:25 so do guardians actually spawn around the orb 10:48:39 only once 10:48:51 right 10:49:01 why 10:49:04 dum 10:49:05 just pick up the orb and step into the tele trap 10:49:06 too late now 10:49:09 or well 10:49:12 'too late' 10:49:13 what? no 10:49:15 i wasn't going for the orb 10:49:17 you could do it anyway if you feel like it 10:49:17 i'm just clearing out zot:3 10:49:19 oh 10:49:21 suuure 10:49:21 ok 10:49:55 that said 10:50:00 that situation wasn't good 10:51:37 welp 10:52:03 Patashu: if i pick the orb up 10:52:07 can i stash it in the temple 10:52:12 or does picking it up start the whole 10:52:13 spawning thing 10:52:17 irreversibly 10:54:05 whoa 10:54:09 Patashu: look at my EV 10:54:13 it suddenly became 13 and my AC 60 10:54:14 what happened 10:55:05 so are you going to grab the orb and win or do extended or what 10:55:21 if you pick the orb up the spawning is irreversible 10:55:25 but orb run tomb is cool 10:55:28 but you can't do orb run hell or pan 10:55:44 well 10:55:46 i have conservation now 10:55:56 which makes me a bit more confident 10:56:07 so 10:56:11 i'm tempted to go for extended 10:56:33 i mean i could just win with 4 runes quickly now but i mean 10:56:41 idk 10:57:10 wow 10:57:12 your ev went up? 10:57:14 yes 10:57:15 somehow 10:57:16 did you get a beneficial mutation? 10:57:16 and my AC 10:57:18 to 60 10:57:25 what the fuck 10:57:28 'Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.' maybe 10:57:28 i have no idea how i got these mutations 10:57:30 lmao 10:57:32 oofs 10:57:33 do that 10:57:34 to you 10:57:35 Patashu: nah i've had that for the whole game 10:57:41 so the distort thing 10:57:42 hmm, I have no idea then 10:57:42 what's that 10:57:45 do i occasionally blink or something 10:57:47 by whole game i mean 10:57:48 since like 10:57:48 teleportitis 10:57:49 half way through 10:57:49 I think 10:57:50 have fun 10:57:53 hahaha 10:57:57 monqy: is this really teleportitis 10:58:10 yes 10:58:26 :'( 10:59:41 monqy: is there any hope for me 11:00:08 what 11:00:10 yeah 11:00:16 if you grab the orb and win 11:00:19 no i meant 11:00:21 any hope in terms of 11:00:22 doing more 11:00:30 idk 11:00:39 well at least the abyss would be tolerable with it :P 11:03:26 do you expect to have fun in the abyss 11:04:19 monqy: of course not 11:07:17 monqy: ps is 70k turns few or a lot i can't tell these things 11:07:23 idk 11:07:23 i guess it's different for light since 11:07:27 less time identifying, eating, etc. 11:07:36 oh and shorter branches obviously 11:07:37 shorter branches 11:07:38 yes 11:07:47 so i guess it's probably quite long for light 11:10:40 ehhhhhhhhh 11:12:34 Patashu: abyss with teleportitis has to be the greatest thing ever right 11:12:44 sounds "fun" 11:12:48 and "a good way to get the rune" 11:12:58 also "will make xom amused" 11:13:01 the last one is factual 11:13:08 wait can you even teleport in the abyss like that 11:13:13 i know it blocks some kinds of stuff 11:13:31 you can teleport fine in the abyss 11:13:50 how far does it teleport you 11:14:08 no amulet of stasis, brilliant 11:14:25 to a different part of the abyss 11:14:37 (read: regenerates the abyss and places you randomly in the new abyss) 11:14:49 it's like playing hyperrogue basically 11:15:09 so 11:15:12 what happens if you find the rune 11:15:15 and teleport 11:15:18 will you never find it again 11:15:21 because it's already been generated 11:16:36 it makes new runes 11:16:38 until you pick it up 11:16:41 same for demonic rune 11:16:44 but NOT same for unique pan lord runes 11:16:51 those are the only ones you can miss 11:18:16 hmmm 11:18:20 ok 11:18:24 Patashu gets to decide 11:18:29 (a) nab orb, win with 4 runes 11:18:33 (b) go to abyss, have THE FUNNEST TIME 11:18:43 (c) try to do extended game with teleportitis like a fucking imbecile 11:19:13 (a) 11:19:17 ok pick again 11:19:23 lol 11:19:25 (a) 11:19:40 ok pick again 11:20:21 and also 11:20:24 you can't pick (a) again 11:22:11 $print($lower('a')) 11:22:14 oops 11:22:16 $print($lower('A')) 11:22:17 there 11:23:30 no it;s not permissible!!! 11:25:11 well 11:25:12 fuck it 11:25:18 i'm gonna get the orb 11:25:21 Patashu: should i orb run tomb 11:25:25 monqy: should i orb run tomb 11:25:29 yes 11:25:30 always orb run tomb 11:25:36 would i actually survive that 11:25:37 out of curiosity 11:25:40 no 11:25:43 :( 11:25:50 but there's no death curses! 11:25:56 wtf 11:26:01 no death curses in crawl light? 11:26:04 so what's the point of tomb again 11:26:12 well 11:26:14 there's no curses 11:26:14 at least 11:26:20 maybe there's death curses!!! 11:28:52 12:28 I don't have a page labeled striss in my learndb. 11:28:54 monqy: who the fuck is striss 11:29:03 random panlord with summon dragon 11:29:08 12:29 unknown monster: "striss" 11:29:10 monqy: oh 11:29:12 that sounds scary 11:30:36 ugh 11:30:37 a crash 11:32:47 ok so 11:32:52 monqy: i have the runes and the orb 11:33:00 i really 11:33:09 want to orb run tomb like an idiot just for the hilarity 11:33:11 but im stopping myself 11:33:13 with willpower 11:34:29 you can orb run tomb if you want 11:34:33 worst case you die 11:35:01 12:34 tomb[7/8]: RotRotRotRotTormentTormentRotTormentTormentSmiteTormentSmiteSmite You die... 11:35:02 oh 11:35:04 is there smiting in tomb 11:35:14 12:35 tomb[8/8]: Croases: admittedly i should've done swamp first 11:35:15 :D 11:38:02 ok 11:38:11 monqy: i'm going to do a really stupid ascension trick wish me luck!!! 11:38:30 not to be missed!!! 11:38:36 or 11:38:37 to be missed 11:38:44 "it is up for every person on the planet for them to decide" 11:38:56 elliott: hm? 11:39:04 monqy: i'm going to do a bunch of stupid stuff before walking up the stairs 11:39:07 ok 11:40:21 nice naga 11:41:16 monqy: does abandoning religion have any penalties 11:41:19 for winning 11:41:25 score-wise or whatever 11:41:35 eh who cares 11:42:00 hahaha 11:42:11 oh my god 11:42:14 monqy 11:42:17 i'm going to die 11:42:21 what 11:42:23 i 11:42:25 read a scroll of tele 11:42:26 you are 11:42:26 why 11:42:27 you look ok 11:42:29 before walking up the stairs 11:42:29 and 11:42:30 i'm naked 11:42:31 and 11:42:32 spoiler: you die in the end. 11:42:34 i have no scrolls 11:42:35 you look ok 11:42:38 no i 11:42:38 have 11:42:39 no 11:42:39 you're on D:6 11:42:41 armour 11:42:42 what are you going to run into 11:42:42 what did you do 11:42:43 on 11:42:44 ?? 11:42:45 you have AC 60 11:42:45 i'm on D:1 11:42:47 and i have the orb 11:42:47 you're on D:1 11:42:48 oh 11:42:49 no 11:42:51 you have ac0 11:42:51 onesec 11:42:56 ok, refershed it 11:42:58 wow, 22 glue and 0 ac 11:42:59 hahaha 11:43:01 how did you manage that 11:43:06 stupid tricks 11:43:07 well, just hasterun from everything 11:43:07 i 11:43:08 and lerave naked 11:43:10 it will look funnier 11:43:12 ok but 11:43:14 will i survive even a single hit 11:43:16 btw 11:43:17 i also renounced religion 11:43:20 of course you will 11:43:25 lol, stupid ascension tricks 11:43:29 hahahaha 11:43:41 god 11:43:46 amazing 11:43:48 congrats on your easy modo win 11:43:48 Best Crawlers - 11:43:49 1. 3673211 gruevy MDFi-27 escaped with the Orb 11:43:49 2. 2327513 elliott DDBe-27 escaped with the Orb 11:43:54 Are you ready for the next challenge? 11:44:16 what's the next challenge 11:44:19 btw 11:44:26 did i lose points by abandoning religion & being naked 11:44:28 and stuff 11:44:29 because if so 11:44:30 i regret nothing 11:44:54 actually 11:44:55 it's funny 11:44:58 my teleportitis didn't kick in at all 11:46:22 anyway 11:46:32 Patashu: what i did was 11:46:38 use my summoning rod thing to swarm a cloud of crap 11:46:43 polymorph one of my boulder beetles into a naga 11:46:46 hasted myself 11:46:49 renounced religion 11:46:50 read fog 11:46:52 read teleport 11:46:56 and tried to go up the stairs 11:46:57 oh 11:47:01 and i took off all my armour beforehand 11:47:16 ...and then ran naked out the dungeon with the orb :P 11:49:56 also 11:50:02 if crawl light uses the same scoring system as crawl 11:50:12 all it cares about is exp, no. of runes and game turns taken 11:50:22 ok 11:50:28 so i only wasted the turns it took to actually do that crap :P 11:51:10 so, the last level of zot is actually pretty fun 11:51:54 ** stair dancing ** (best watched when not busy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWdGIbZKtmg&t=214s 11:53:35 brogue has the best (most exploitable) stair dancing 11:53:44 which is funny because at first it looks like the LEAST exploitable stairs in any roguelike that has them 11:54:02 imo every roguelike needs to adopt the following-through-stairs system brogue has 11:55:23 Following through stairs system? 11:56:01 when you take the stairs in brogue 11:56:04 every monster that is actively hunting you 11:56:08 will take the stairs as soon as it reaches them 11:56:14 and resume hunting you 11:56:28 Ah, nice 11:56:32 (as opposed to the stupid system in most other roguelikes where things adjacent to you can somehow go up the stairs and then walk next to you in two turns less time than it should take) 11:56:34 so you need to use Secret Techniques to exploit stairs 11:56:39 (and anything with even one square of air around you won't follow at all) 11:56:42 (really really dumb) 11:57:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:00:08 Patashu: so what are the brogue techniques 12:01:49 monqy: bet you enjoyed playing as MEPHITICCLOUD 12:01:58 aauuuhg 12:02:09 it actually didn't have meph 12:02:10 monqy: it's a workhorse 12:02:12 I made a post on the brogue wiki detailing what you can do with stairs 12:02:16 http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Stairdancing 12:02:17 right now i'm playing MOUNTAINDWARF, which does have meph 12:02:30 monqy: is the naming theme "bad things" 12:02:32 *naming scheme 12:02:40 naming scheme is OBLIVION 12:02:51 things that were "nerfed to oblivion" 12:03:03 mephitic cloud, mountain dwarf, staff monk, slaying 12:03:04 I'm not sure I'd call what was done to Mountain Dwarves "nerfing". 12:03:05 what was op about staff monk 12:03:10 nothing 12:03:15 it was just nerfed to oblivion 12:03:21 Is there a Brogue server? 12:03:25 no, not yet 12:03:29 but it has a replay system 12:03:33 so if you win (or die hilariously) I can watch you 12:03:40 a brogue server would require the brogue program to work well anyway 12:03:45 because of the UI 12:04:07 I think there's a console version of brogue 12:04:13 just that it's not available because the faketerm is a lot better 12:04:18 and it's going to be used for an ssh server 12:04:23 yeah but nobody will want to play that 12:04:27 at least nobody with taste 12:05:06 monqy: nice hydra 12:05:16 i wasn't looking atht the screen 12:05:43 you should use mephitic cloud on everything 12:05:56 can't sacrifice optimal play just for your personal opinions! 12:06:00 you have a team relying on you 12:06:49 this is the only one I have left 12:06:54 then everything will be stuck on marvinpa 12:07:09 (until it comes back around to me that is) 12:09:51 monqy: freezing cloud eh 12:09:54 sounds a lot like mephitic cloud to me 12:10:04 sounds like you're feeding your secret meph addiction without admitting it!!! 12:11:22 meeeeph 12:11:26 i havent even seen meph ever casted monqy 12:11:28 do yo uwant to deprive me 12:15:00 monqy: i feel deprive 12:15:00 d 12:15:11 mephhh 12:15:14 meph the hill giant 12:15:25 beautiful 12:15:32 wow that's overpowered 12:15:48 i think monqy just wants to cast meph a lot 12:15:50 i think he really likes it 12:15:55 everything about this char is op 12:16:25 monqy: did you see i won btw 12:16:32 "i forget" 12:16:47 yes 12:17:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:17:29 hi Taneb 12:17:33 Hello 12:18:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:18:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:20:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:21:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:24:08 Taneb: I won Crawl Light! 12:24:17 Yay! 12:24:52 Now for Crawl [Heavy|Dark]! 12:28:00 :) 12:32:02 -!- nooga has joined. 12:32:54 Crawl Light? 12:33:12 It's like Crawl, but Light. 12:33:35 It's a fork of 0.8 that adds some new stuff and removes annoying things like the bad hunger, identification and curse systems. 12:33:42 bad hunger? 12:33:51 bad (hunger, identification and curse systems) 12:33:58 What's bad about them? 12:34:15 i thought you played craw 12:34:16 l 12:34:21 what monqy said 12:34:33 alternatively: "everything" 12:36:01 even ais thinks crawl's id game sucks, and he likes identification 12:36:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:38:22 How does it suck? 12:38:47 13:34 i thought you played craw 12:38:47 13:34 l 12:39:01 it's uninteresting, tedious, and has no gameplay benefits 12:39:43 it involves no interesting choices, more or less no risk, and basically is just completely pointless 12:41:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:42:01 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:43:14 and also 12:43:15 it sucks 12:44:36 Sgeo: and furthermore 12:44:40 it's bad 12:46:42 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:49:28 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:54:41 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:57:55 monqy: you gotat see that tv 12:57:56 *gotta 13:08:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:21:47 Help me! I'm using drivelware pushed by Facebook 13:21:59 Because it has one redeeming quality over Pidgin 13:33:53 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:37:32 what 13:43:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:44:42 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:02:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:03:01 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:03:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:03:41 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:03:49 Hello! 14:08:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:08:42 If I go to sleep I'm going to forget what I need to post to the Allegiance forums 14:09:01 summarize it here in a few posts 14:09:09 then you can check it later in the logs 14:17:28 Why am I listening to itidus20 14:17:53 its one thing i know about 14:18:33 Allegiance installer doesn't have Allegiance run as Administrator -- which is good except for it installing Allegiance into a protected directory, so updaters don't work 14:18:56 And R6 apparently uses Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable files, which the installer does not install 14:19:18 Lewis Carroll once invented a strange device for taking shorthand in the dark, because he would forget what idea he just woke up with faster than the oil lamp could be turned on. 14:19:30 -!- oklofok has joined. 14:21:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:23:21 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:31:50 -!- nooga has joined. 14:36:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:37:01 -!- david_werecat has joined. 15:03:46 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 15:17:23 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:39:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:48:26 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:58:00 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 16:09:56 based on some rants the other day, i'm trying my winxp in a fullscreen style mode.. 16:11:15 all open windows maximized (where possible), taskbar removed from the bottom, taskbar can be entirely replaced effectively by alt+tab and windows key 16:12:09 winxp -_- 16:13:06 it's my backlash against overlapping windows 16:13:18 dunno how long it will last 16:13:23 -!- azaq23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:20:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:25:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:34:24 Hello 16:49:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:05:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:07:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:07:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:12:28 -!- huansinho has joined. 17:12:56 -!- huansinho has left. 17:14:17 -!- huansinho has joined. 17:14:19 -!- huansinho has left. 17:21:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:47:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:48:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:59:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:11:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:17:12 https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-boosts-music-sales-study-finds-120517/ 18:19:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:20:28 ion: i guess the record industry wants to have their cake and eat it too. 18:21:54 * itidus20 notices that every other time someone has spoken i have responded and it might be time for a break 18:22:03 -!- itidus20 has left ("Leaving"). 18:43:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:47:07 -!- nortti has joined. 18:51:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:51:27 Hello! 18:51:57 `quote 18:52:06 831) they call finnish human-readable? 18:52:14 `? Taneb 18:52:18 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 18:52:21 `? Ngevd 18:52:24 ​].~"MɱʂefO_4eD(2.tз};M0{zZ.7{^B'_O.IaS@."c:Y.I”ƥ0I.~nY&`ƫ@bcMb+.Jj...S\.Aa#+ \ '.t.^˕4Nx-.BPhb..iJ@f:QLܒ;΢dɇe.z..Rz \ .w!*Ax2^fMVkl.Rg.[c(.k~{ ".+.[0~6.#ov0.qFS=]C"`ݑ.ts. 18:52:32 actually they called finnish easy to read. 18:52:59 `quote Taneb 18:53:02 439) Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 445) Cut to February War were declared A galaxy in turmoil Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 446) I can't afford one of those! A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 453) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different 18:53:26 I remember 453 18:53:31 `quote 453 18:53:34 453) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 18:59:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:59:46 `qutoe Ngevd 18:59:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qutoe: not found 19:00:01 `quote Ngevd 19:00:04 619) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 625) [in the context of Open University] "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" \ 628) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov \ 630) Also you steal Berwick from us and then 19:00:58 `quote nortti 19:01:01 823) nortti: fizzie has done some impressive stuff in befunge, which is essentially the two-dimensional version of finnish politics. \ 824) It's... not really links2-optimised. elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised 19:26:56 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:59:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:17:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:17:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:38 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:43:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:45:07 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:48:06 #haskell is the most banny I've ever seen a channel that hadn't been taken over by a musician from New Jersey 20:48:24 does that happen frequently 20:49:01 It happened once... 20:49:38 The channel no longer exists, but for a short time I was its owner 20:50:14 banny? 20:50:17 people gettin banned? 20:50:24 Person 20:50:41 branny 20:50:46 Taneb: what for / why is it remarkable? 20:50:51 kmc: A troll is rejoining with different IPs. 20:50:55 Nothing particularly remarkable. 20:51:14 (I don't IRC very much, but when I do, I mostly stay in the comfort of this very channel) 20:54:41 The best tranny. The banny. 20:55:15 The intersection between #esoteric and #haskell is a number of people 20:55:21 That is at least 3 20:55:35 kmc: Did you solve the EXCITING PUZZLE? 21:08:40 Sgeo, do the update thing! 21:10:02 -!- elliott has joined. 21:10:28 hi 21:10:28 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:11:02 Hello! 21:11:47 elliott, update 21:12:12 hi 21:12:27 monqy: hello 21:12:43 There's been sausagey chaos on #haskell 21:12:44 @@ @tell elliott @echo @echo @echo 21:12:44 Consider it noted. 21:13:18 elliott: helo 21:13:18 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:14:49 i was hopeful when he said "SSH is awesome" but when i asked he says he'd only consider himself a "ssh fanboy" on the condition that telnet was the only alternative :( 21:16:25 :( 21:16:25 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:16:42 condolences, monqy 21:17:22 @@ @tell shachaf @echo @echo @echo 21:17:22 You can tell yourself! 21:17:32 lambdabot: OR CAN I? 21:17:52 yes 21:27:05 shachaf: what puzzle? 21:27:36 How many non-interesecting "8"s can you fit on a plane? 21:28:26 shachaf, depends how big the plane and the "8"s are 21:28:34 The plane is infinite. 21:28:41 The 8s can be any size you like. 21:29:00 I'm going for an infinite number 21:29:21 The question is whether it's countably many. 21:29:52 I'd guess yes, since you can pack 8s into the dip in the middle. 21:29:57 I'm going for uncountable 21:30:12 If the 8s can get stupidly tiny 21:30:17 (mathematical term) 21:30:51 OK, prove it. 21:30:58 No. 21:31:04 Circles are easy but 8s are much trickier. 21:31:12 What's "the dip in the middle"? 21:31:26 Consider a circle surrounding an 8 21:31:38 shachaf: The thing connecting the two "o"s. 21:31:54 Taneb: 8s can go into other 8s, of course. 21:32:09 shachaf, that doesn't make it any more countable? 21:32:33 Who said it was countable? 21:32:46 I claimed it wasn't! 21:33:11 If it's uncountable without putting 8s in other 8s, it will be uncountable with that ability 21:33:28 It's uncountable because you can imagine packing the reals the same way, Q.E.D.. 21:33:30 *D. 21:33:52 (I have little idea what I'm talking about, btw. Most of my knowledge of this topic comes from reading irregular webcomic) 21:33:56 OK, so how is it uncountable without putting 8s in other 8s? 21:34:10 Because the 8s can get stupidly tiny 21:34:22 shachaf: Just pack circles and then s/circle/8/? 21:34:34 8s have a bounding circle. 21:34:53 -!- nortti_ has joined. 21:36:18 Goodnight! 21:36:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:51:43 elliott: No, because circles can go inside each other. 21:52:25 The obvious packing is f(r : R⁺) = Circle { center = (0,0), radius = r } 21:52:39 OK, but an 8 is just a circle with a twist. 21:52:49 You can pack 8s into the side, which is the equivalent of the inside. 21:53:06 Think of taking a circle and twisting it to make an 8, and what happens to the insides. 21:53:09 Well, the "obvious packing" I mentioned doesn't work. 21:53:15 Because the 8s intersect. 21:53:19 See above. 21:53:20 So suggest another packing. :-) 21:53:22 You don't pack the 8 into the 8. 21:53:26 You pack the 8 into the side of the 8. 21:53:34 OK, but how do you get uncountably many that way? 21:54:04 shachaf: Put a real number in the top circle of the 8. 21:54:14 Ascending on each side. 21:54:19 Note that you can find any real number by diving deep enough. 21:54:27 Not ascending. 21:54:30 You know what I mean. 21:54:36 I'm not going to make a formal proof. 21:54:42 Actually I have no idea what you mean. 21:54:48 But I don't think it works. :-) 21:56:43 OK, do you understand what I mean by twisting a circle in the middle to get an 8? 21:57:29 Sort of? 21:57:31 If you imagine a certain kind of (not physically possible twist), you can imagine what's in the very middle of the circle actually ending up at the sides of the middle point of the 8 where the circles join, on the outside. 21:57:36 *possible) twist, 21:57:50 (It's not physically possible because you sort of twist it in-place.) 21:58:00 (I'm sure there's a fancy topological definition of it.) 21:58:08 But if you have two non-intersecting concentric circles, and you twist them both, you get two intersecting 8s. 21:58:25 Oh, maybe I don't understand what you're saying. 21:58:26 Anyway, I didn't even state it based on the circles originally. 21:58:44 The point is: the middle of the 8 has some free space, right? 21:58:51 Where the two circles meet, there's some space to the left and right of the midpoint. 21:58:52 Estimated delivery date: Today. 21:58:57 Current location: 2,000 miles away. 21:58:58 You can pack 8s there. 21:58:59 Yeaaaaaaaaaah. 21:59:08 So just pack one on each side, and repeat the process. 21:59:19 That's only going to be countably many. 21:59:29 I can trivially enumerate these 8s. :-) 21:59:36 Hmm, right. 21:59:39 Bah. 21:59:43 Just tell me the answer. 22:00:08 But then it's not an EXCITING PUZZLE anymore. 22:00:16 It's not exciting. 22:00:44 Oh. 22:05:36 How would a packing problem have uncountably infinite pieces in a space? 22:06:17 It's not really packing. 22:06:20 That's a bad word for it. 22:06:35 Circles can go inside each other. 22:06:45 They just can't intersect. 22:07:37 Anyway, tell us the solution. 22:08:04 But that would spoil it. 22:08:23 You wouldn't want to SPOIL IT, would you? 22:08:53 elliott: I can give you a hint: 22:09:01 Is packing discs (filled-in circles) possible? 22:10:00 I'm not sure. :( 22:10:20 OK, so figure that out first. :-) 22:11:02 No. 22:11:07 I'm too tired. 22:11:09 OK. 22:11:12 Go to sleep! 22:11:37 I just did. 22:13:38 I should post on the Allegiance forums 22:13:44 They need to fix the installer 22:32:29 elliott, http://type.method.ac/# 22:32:47 I've played that. 22:32:49 I wasn't very good at it. 22:33:34 Does it make sense that the letters at the end aren't movable? 22:34:10 Yes, otherwise the game would be impossible; there would be an infinite number of valid kernings, parameterised on letter spacing. 22:34:34 (i.e. all of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Letter-spacingS1.png are kerned correctly.) 22:34:48 (Well, ostensibly. Assume they are; they could be incorrect, but that's not the point.) 22:35:22 Ah 22:35:38 I kept wanting to squish everything together 22:36:08 I didn't actually finish the game >.> 22:45:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:45:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 22:45:44 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:06:47 "shachaf How many non-interesecting "8"s can you fit on a plane?" rather trivially only countably many 23:07:29 the idea is similar to the one for "uncountable sum of positive reals is infinite" 23:08:32 for the latter problem, we note that if for all 1/n, we had just countably many over that magnitude, then we could just take the countable union 23:10:14 similarly, for the eights, we note that if you take any "rational interval of 8 approximations", then some approximation interval is uncountable, which will be a contradiction. by an approximation interval i mean something like "height of the 8 is between x and y, and the angles in the middle are between z and w" or something. 23:10:50 this is all very standard, but this is a common problem type in noob competitions 23:13:31 well okay 8's are particularly simple so you just need to look at the size of bounding boxes 23:13:50 elliott, monqy etc 23:14:36 it is ever so slightly more interesting for Y 23:20:25 "trivial" 23:21:44 "very standard... noob competitions" 23:22:29 yes 23:22:42 silly bullshit no one should be doing 23:25:49 can no space with a nontrivial fundamental group have uncountably many nonoverlapping embeddings? 23:27:39 yeah seems so 23:28:23 i don't think you can get anything interesting out of this 23:28:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:28:42 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:29:16 thanks for being a dick about it 23:29:24 i don't think shachaf's puzzle was meant to revolutionize mathematical research 23:29:33 :) 23:29:47 i think it was a little puzzle for a group of people casually interested in mathematics 23:29:50 finally, someone takes my being a dick seriously 23:34:28 wait what, did shachaf invent the puzzle? 23:35:28 okay i guess not 23:38:05 also i read my lines and wonder wtf you're menstruating abou 23:38:06 t 23:38:17 i didn't eve 23:38:21 n insult anyone 23:38:45 thanks for being a dick about it 23:39:02 :--------------------------------------------D 23:41:46 anyway does this game have a point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUC2tpY5gb4 ? 23:42:20 my attention span for flowers is not long enough to get it 23:43:09 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: nortti_). 23:43:28 okay i guess it is, you hit flowers with the petals 23:44:13 Games aren't always about senseless violence and violence. Some have a deeper meaning and an actual purpose. Take this game, Flower, for instance. It is the opposite of? violence. 23:44:22 -- dude on youtube 23:45:15 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 2012-05-20: 00:24:11 "oklofok can no space with a nontrivial fundamental group have uncountably many nonoverlapping embeddings?" oookay wtf was i thinking :D 00:24:28 how about a fucking circle :D 00:24:42 anyway back to sleep 00:25:11 note to self: 8 != 0, _even in shape_ 00:26:50 0 just needs a twist. 00:27:04 (Betht pony) 00:30:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:22 betht? 00:31:37 also am i sleeping, because i sure hope so? 00:31:43 http://sprunge.us/QFUK I am mad. 00:32:08 can you give a tl;dr version? 00:32:20 It encodes uncompressed PNGs. 00:32:36 hey i wrote one of those 00:32:48 why mad? 00:33:34 did i mention that we programmed this ramsey theoretic function for fun which cannot actually be evaluated for any nontrivial inputs 00:33:44 This is how I intend to do screenshot functionality in cmako. 00:34:05 Also savestate functionality. 00:34:47 an ackermann-like function which explodes beyond comprehension at 3, and is defined for all ordinals up to \omega^\omega^... :P 00:36:06 Wait, you can read in a game from an image? 00:36:22 What sort of game is it? 00:36:31 Wait, I'm assuming it's a game 00:36:35 what's the mako vm? 00:36:53 kmc: Thing a friend of mine came up with. https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako 00:37:18 Kinda been fun implementing. 00:37:56 Cool :) 00:38:09 ...the sort of way I talk to my gf is leaking into IRC 00:39:48 it's okay it makes us happy :) 00:41:27 Sgeo: so tell me about this gf 00:43:24 She's doing programming at our college, she likes the Stargate franchise, she's smart (although she seems to not have independently learned CS stuff) 00:44:51 sounds agreeable 00:44:52 She has no physical manifestation, apparently, but then who needs one *shrugs* 00:44:52 She seems to like everything I point her to (in terms of fiction etc.) She now likes The IT Crowd, Homestuck, and ... I don't remember what else 00:45:18 Of course, the meaning of "he" and "she" start to blur when you have no physical manifestation, but again, not really relevant. 00:45:41 Gregor: Incorporeal entities can still self-identify as a gender. 00:46:01 But that's so ... so ... /corporeal/. It's beneath them. 00:46:06 anyone wanna collaborate on a programming project? :x 00:46:19 augur: no, programming sucks. 00:46:23 :( 00:46:36 i suck, iykwim 00:46:37 ;o ;o ;o 00:46:49 well 00:46:52 i have a hunch 00:47:04 due to programming so much 00:47:15 that i've gotten so smart that i got your reference 00:47:23 *having programmed 00:47:28 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 00:47:30 oklofok: augur just uses "programming project" as a euphemism for gay sex. Actually, he uses almost everything as an analogy for gay sex. 00:47:37 oh right 00:47:40 Gregor: alas, right now i mean it literally 00:47:41 sorry, i'm really tired 00:47:42 Errr, *euphemism 00:47:49 augur: then no, for other reasons 00:47:52 *euphonium 00:48:04 *eunoia 00:48:42 *ekljgfbdfg 00:50:19 Gregor: but now you have the wrong article 00:50:27 you're in trouble 00:51:04 oklofok: No, I just switched accents mid-stream. 00:51:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:54:59 ah. 00:55:33 my non-native eyes cannot always tell from text 00:57:45 augur: having programming suck my dick would be nice for a change, usually it seems to be the other way around 00:58:17 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:58:21 pikhq: now i've found your github account 00:58:24 and bootstrap-linux 00:58:25 that's cool :) 01:09:59 -!- elliott has joined. 01:13:20 kmc: If you join #musl , you'll see that there's roughly one distribution per channel member, give or take. 01:15:20 :) 01:28:23 Gregor: eeyup. The horror! Okey dokey lokey! Yaaay. Ha ha, the fun has been doubled! NOPE! 01:29:20 what 01:29:40 tswett: What elliott is trying to say is, this kind of talk belongs in #esoteric-ponies 01:29:52 Oh, of course. 01:45:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:51:08 -!- calamari has joined. 01:51:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:14 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:33:11 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:33:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:43:27 -!- madbr has joined. 02:57:32 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:03:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:03:32 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:05:39 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 03:33:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:41:09 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 03:41:09 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: No route to host). 04:13:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:14:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:33 http://sprunge.us/AfdU 04:51:00 what is that 04:51:06 PNG encoder. 04:51:30 why 04:51:36 Partly for kicks. 04:53:21 Actually, sorry, shouldn't have pastebinned so soon. 04:53:48 Genericising the thing works better when you do so completely. 04:54:08 http://sprunge.us/TaED 04:57:41 pikhq_: describe the interface 04:59:01 coppro: You pass write_png a FILE* to write to, width and height of the image, the image, and a NULL-terminated list of chunk names in char*, chunk lengths in size_t, and chunk data in void*. 04:59:17 ... Waaaait, not quite. XD 04:59:22 I fucked it up slightly, XD. 05:03:12 http://sprunge.us/EKPM 05:21:53 uint8_t (*buf)[w] 05:22:01 GCC THAT IS NOT A VLA ON THE STACK, THAT IS A POINTER TO A VLA 05:29:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:29:55 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:34:10 pikhq_: pointer-to-VLA is a vaguely dubious type anyway 05:34:20 is there any particular reason why you can't just use a pointer to the first element? 05:35:08 ais523: Because I want to write foo[i][j] not foo[j + i*stride]; 05:36:00 And I have the reasonable expectation of gcc implementing a 13 year old standard right. 05:38:11 fair enough 05:38:40 hmm, I'm not actually certain offhand that a VLA /of/ VLAs is legal 05:40:21 It really, truly is. 05:42:51 presumably all the inside ones have to have the same length 05:43:20 Well, yes. 05:44:11 hi 05:44:24 05:59 coppro: You pass write_png a FILE* to write to, width and height of the image, the image, and a NULL-terminated list of chunk names in char*, chunk lengths in size_t, and chunk data in void*. 05:44:33 FILE * is a bad interface to use :( 05:45:40 it's the standard one 05:45:58 not really 05:45:59 oh, btw, was it people in here that were complaining that commands buffered their output? or elsewhere? 05:46:14 I wrote a "nobuffer" program that wraps the relevant libc functions to not do buffering 05:46:21 for instance, pikhq_'s encoder can't be used to portably write a png to memory without pain 05:46:46 elliott: Therefore, fuck not-POSIX. 05:46:47 or to a network transport that isn't "bare" (additional headers etc.) 05:47:02 pikhq_: you wouldn't have a fun time doing it on POSIX either 05:47:20 open_memstream says what? 05:47:25 fmemopen is POSIX.1-2008 05:47:35 I said fun time 05:47:48 "Oh no 3 lines aaah" 05:47:51 for instance, those require specifying a size ahead of time 05:48:04 open_memstream doesn't. 05:48:16 ah, indeed 05:48:19 however, see my other objection 05:48:19 yep, open_memstream is the dynamically sized version (also POSIX) 05:48:27 an in-memory string is a special case 05:48:39 all you really want is a simple callback that takes a bunch of bytes 05:48:46 (FILE *) is overspecifying 05:49:07 fopencookie! 05:49:12 in fact 05:49:17 (although that's a GNU extension) 05:49:22 In the meantime, this thing is really, truly not working. 05:49:25 you can just parameterise it on write_chunk (where s/FILE */void */ and bundle a void *) 05:49:26 i.e. 05:49:52 struct sink { void *data; void write-chunk(void *data, char type[4], size_t len, uint8_t *data); } 05:49:54 but, probably: 05:49:57 elliott: OTOH, especially with C not having lambdas, it'd be a pain to write out the callbacks 05:50:14 struct sink { void *closure; void write(void *closure, char *data, size_t len); } 05:50:17 would be easier 05:50:26 ais523: no it wouldn't; most of the time, you'd just say file_sink(my_file_ptr) 05:50:37 where are you getting file_sink from? 05:50:39 write_idat seems to be shoving me a nice, long chunk 0 bytes. 05:50:44 it'd come with the library 05:50:58 and when does it free its data? 05:50:58 yes, it'd be inconvenient to add new outputs 05:51:04 but inconvenient is better than impossible 05:51:05 ais523: huh? 05:51:11 in this case, data would be the FILE * 05:51:19 (closure is a better name) 05:51:21 you're saying "file_sink(my_file_ptr)" 05:51:27 presumably it returns a struct 05:51:32 when does that struct get freed? 05:51:36 or are you breaking thread-safety? 05:52:00 actually, you've answered your own question by contradicting yourself 05:52:06 in lines two and three there 05:52:16 no I haven't 05:52:22 yes 05:52:24 you meant to say: 05:52:28 presumably it returns a pointer to a struct 05:52:46 oh, right, I forgot it was even possible to return entire structs via copying 05:53:01 the struct is just shorthand for passing the closure and function as two separate parameters here 05:53:04 since that would be awkward 05:53:46 Aight, works now. 05:53:52 Erm, no. 05:54:26 How the heck am I getting a giant empty IDAT chunk? 05:54:34 ais523: btw, I won that Crawl Light game 05:56:07 I'm waiting for something before I play crawl light but I forget what it is 05:56:14 monqy: hard mode 05:56:17 you forgot that last time, too 05:56:22 good news: hard mode now actually works! 05:56:38 is it hard though 05:56:54 i hear it was hard enough that he had to turn down the hardness slightly! 05:56:57 for summoned things or something 05:57:11 elliott: you won Crawl Light? neat? 05:57:20 was that with that +23 armour? 05:57:23 ais523: hmm, neat is a question? 05:57:33 and yes, that's basically why I won :) 06:02:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:04:13 monqy: You should play Light, it's like Crawl but easy. 06:04:24 (Under suitably lucky circumstances.) 06:05:10 i dont want easy 06:05:12 !! 06:05:17 i want good 06:05:28 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:05:43 monqy: It's easy if you find +23 cpa. 06:05:52 Also it's not actually easy. 06:06:11 * elliott wants to see the second Pandoora. :'( 06:08:32 monqy: Have you played the bee castle? 06:08:35 Think of what you're missing. 06:08:36 no 06:08:39 i bet it's boring 06:08:39 * pikhq_ is *immensely* confused 06:08:42 bees are boring 06:08:50 Well, it is, admittedly. 06:09:03 But it's also a castle of bees. 06:09:26 vanilla has castles too, light probalby has them too 06:09:27 I'm getting nothing but a giant chunk of 0x00 out here. 06:09:33 monqy: Does it have NetHack's castle? 06:09:38 idk 06:09:50 ais523: Tell monqy about the wonders of the bee castle, man. 06:09:54 lemuel castle is good though, dunno if it's anything like nethack castle 06:09:57 You're an expert on the grounds of adding it to the topic. 06:10:02 *having added 06:11:19 bee castle! 06:11:25 thanks 06:11:42 elliott: I've been spouting "bee castle!" at dtsund every few months since he first brought the subject up 06:11:48 now it exists it's not such a good meme any more :( 06:11:52 monqy: Just imagine! No hunger, no identification, no curses. 06:12:03 Just all that... good... Crawl... fun... uhhh, never mind. 06:12:11 it still has big levels!! 06:12:21 "it's not monqys-crawl" 06:12:23 monqy: But there's less of them! 06:12:30 So you can just imagine one level as being, like, two levels. 06:12:42 And there's an exciting barrier on one of them! 06:13:10 that doesn't help 06:13:23 also it stashing and inventory management and stuff!!! 06:13:40 i haven't decided what to do about inventory management in monqys-crawl but at least there won't be stashing 06:13:50 and there will be fewer items 06:14:05 It's still less annoying than Crawl! 06:14:13 sure 06:14:19 And also, uh... 06:14:38 monqy: Banded mail! 06:14:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:14:43 -!- DH____ has joined. 06:14:46 i don't care about banded mail!! 06:14:54 monqy: What kind of a monster are you??? 06:15:22 You are now monqy "waits for hard mode; complains about level size after wards" monqys-surname. :( 06:15:28 *afterwards 06:15:54 that's not the only thing i'm complaining about 06:15:57 I love the idea that monqy's surname actually is monqys-surname 06:15:59 i'm complaining about plenty of other things too 06:16:32 ais523: whois giveth and whois taketh away, Mr. (this is obviously not my real name). 06:16:53 monqy: I think you're just scared of dying without your script!!! 06:17:01 elliott: untrue 06:17:04 meh, I whoised monqy hoping it would list "monqy monqys-surname" as the realname 06:17:08 but it didn't :( 06:17:09 elliott: remember how i got wrapped into that tournament 06:17:12 ais523: That's the taketh away. 06:17:22 elliott: i haven't died yet!!! 06:17:28 monqy: Yeah, but you cast mephitic cloud! 06:17:34 monqy: You just can't play like you used to. 06:17:36 elliott: i cast it because you told me 06:17:39 elliott: to 06:17:42 elliott: !!! 06:17:46 monqy: Oh sure. 06:17:51 You wanted to cast it! 06:17:56 I was just showing you the horror inside of you. 06:18:00 :( 06:18:06 It's okay, some of us are just bad. 06:18:22 You can avoid Light if you want but you cannot avoid your decay!!! 06:18:24 !!!! 06:18:26 !!!!!!!!! 06:18:27 !!!! 06:18:27 hi 06:18:27 ! 06:18:30 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: !). 06:18:46 -!- elliott has joined. 06:19:04 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:19:11 i'll play light eventually sometime. was hard mode the only thing i was waiting for? 06:19:13 monqy: As I was saying, you should play Light. 06:19:15 ais523: Hi. 06:19:22 I meant that as a threat :) 06:19:36 ais523: "kool" -- monqy monqys-surname, 2012 06:19:37 such a playful sounding threat 06:19:39 monqy: Well, that was the thing you remembered last time. 06:19:45 In #CrawlLight. 06:19:55 well maybe i'll play it 06:19:58 what should I play 06:20:00 The best part is that the hard mode is alpha quality right now, so it'll be just as fun as monqys-crawl! 06:20:10 fun fun 06:20:14 monqy: SEAM 06:20:15 monqy: HaCr 06:20:18 Heeey, it works. 06:20:36 ais523: meh, SEAM isn't even oldwon any more 06:20:50 it was nemelex challenge, I think 06:20:54 which is /why/ it's newwon 06:21:03 oh wait 06:21:03 it's a great combo, not only is it bad, it's not bad /enough/ to run as a challenge 06:21:07 it is oldwon, because AM doesn't exist any more 06:21:22 I think. 06:21:23 oh, bleh, they rereremovedit? 06:21:38 oh 06:21:39 07:20 oldwon[1/2]: CeAr CeAs CeIE CeSt CeTm(Pac) CeWn CeWr DDCj DDMo DDTm DEAK DEAr DEPr DgEn DgSu FeDK FeFi FeNe(mikee) FePr FeWr GhAK GhVM GhWr HaAM HaSu HESt HuAs KoCK KoEn KoFi KoWz MfAE(hyperpivotal) MfAM MfPr MfSu MiSu(coolrobin) SEAM(coolrobin) SEFi SEPr SpAE SpGl VpAs VpEE VpFE VpTm 06:21:49 no, it's just still oldwon-in-progress 06:21:56 AM used to exist, then they removed it, then they unremoved it 06:22:14 and I don't remember it being a nemelex' choice 06:22:16 07:22 The RNG chooses: FeCj. 06:22:20 monqy: play fecj 06:22:23 jokes that 06:22:24 the joke is that crawl light doesn't have felids 06:22:25 ye 06:22:26 s 06:22:26 yes 06:22:27 oops 06:22:30 s/^s$// 06:22:36 ye was perfectly correct on its own 06:22:48 07:22 The RNG chooses: GhAK. 06:22:51 wow too perfect to be true 06:22:54 play ghak 06:22:57 ha 06:22:59 ha 06:23:00 ha 06:23:05 that really happened, I swear 06:23:17 07:22 !rng @badchar 06:23:17 07:22 The RNG chooses: FeCj. 06:23:17 07:22 !rng @badchar 06:23:17 no im laughing at the joke where light doesnt have ghak 06:23:18 07:22 The RNG chooses: GhAK. 06:23:20 yes 06:23:23 me too 06:23:24 but its sitll 06:23:27 ~spookey~ 06:23:31 07:23 The RNG chooses: DEWn. 06:23:33 play dewn 06:23:34 spookey like ghak 06:23:48 ghaks raen't spookey. have you ever seen a crawl ghoule. 06:23:50 they're friendly. 06:23:58 *aern't 06:25:07 07:25 The RNG chooses: HOAs. 06:25:11 monqy: play higher-order abstract syntax 06:25:32 no i dont want to pplay hoas 06:25:57 it's suggested KeWr twice; maybe you should play KeWr 06:26:15 or DDWn or DEDK 06:26:33 or MDPr (its a joke i dont like mountain dwarves) 06:26:40 (but its a joke pandoora came up with not me) 06:27:13 MiEE. VpSk (ha). GhWz (ha). FeWz (ha). DSEn. 06:27:56 so much bot-operating work for monqy. 06:28:01 hm? 06:28:04 i dont have a bot 06:28:10 the bot is pandoora 06:28:15 o 06:28:16 h 06:28:25 you don't have to find something with pandoora, it'll probably suck that way 06:28:33 I want something "actually fun" 06:29:13 why not dddk that sounds fun ! (assuming dks play like they do in monqys-crawl) 06:29:28 Now it works *correctly*. 06:29:47 Did you know that DEFLATE encodes little-endian, while PNG encodes big-endian? 06:29:52 Now I do! 06:30:49 elliott: nope 06:30:53 elliott: lack of divine healing? 06:31:00 ais523: drain life 06:31:05 ais523: zombie shields 06:31:06 also drain life 06:31:09 ah, OK 06:31:18 i was thinking zombie shields though 06:31:43 monqy: mudk? 06:31:49 i don't want to play dk 06:31:52 dkdk 06:31:55 ally herding remember 06:32:00 -!- ais523 has set topic: not tommorow's topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 06:32:07 ais523: tomorrow we'll fix the typo 06:32:23 then the day after we'll reintroduce it! 06:32:28 monqy: MDFi (ha) 06:32:51 ais523: no, then it'll become "not yesterday's topic" 06:32:53 `quote 06:32:55 `quote 06:32:56 `quote 06:32:58 `quote 06:32:59 `quote 06:33:02 ais523: fun fact: it can never become "yesterday's topic" without a falsehood being present in the chain 06:33:16 157) colon is where your ass comes from right 06:33:18 not yeasterday's topic 06:33:20 nor can it become "tomorrow's topic" unless it stays there forever 06:33:23 monqy: are you laughing 06:33:27 419) The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells. 06:33:28 724) I'm not biased towards humanity over sentient .txt files. 06:33:30 561) elliott, it is typical of you Vorpal: so are most things I say 06:33:32 495) Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? 06:33:54 724 is crappy; 157 is crappier (if you make a joke out of this ill punch your face) 06:34:03 I don't like that sort of joke 06:34:13 it's a bad joke 06:34:14 I actually kind-of like 724 06:34:19 `delquote 157 06:34:22 ​*poof* colon is where your ass comes from right 06:34:26 also talking about it as a hypothetical will make me statistically more likely to punch you 06:34:27 I think we're all agreed on that one, anyway 06:34:32 the punches cannot be avoided by any means other than ignorance 06:34:48 monqy: ok how about 06:34:50 meh, I /can't/ make a joke out of that 06:34:52 uhhh let me log in 06:34:53 I just tried 06:34:57 I wouldn't have said it if I did think of it 06:35:01 ais523: the joke is "crappier" 06:35:02 but now I'm disappointed :( 06:35:03 crap ass etc. 06:35:07 elliott: yes, I see the connection 06:35:09 just can't make a joke out of it 06:35:17 I can make a coincidence out of it, but a coincidence is not a joke 06:35:30 ok let me see 06:35:45 joke's on elliott, the joke is actually elliott's parenthetical 06:35:48 monqy: NaBe 06:35:53 i picked that manually 06:35:57 actually 06:36:00 that's probably insufficiently crappy 06:36:13 are you trying to pick something crappy 06:36:13 i didn't bother selecting Na to see which were the good (unrecommended) ones 06:36:16 well 06:36:19 crappy in a very special sense 06:36:27 NaVM 06:36:30 ha 06:36:36 NaVM of Chei 06:36:53 are kenku interesting. i know literally nothing about them 06:36:57 navm is "crappy" in the sense that they have the best poison magic apt in the game but I'm not casting meph 06:37:02 kenku are just tengu but in the past 06:37:07 i know 06:37:09 i know nothing about tengu either 06:37:12 other than that they're future kenku 06:37:37 anyway i'm not playing kenku 06:37:48 ok 06:37:51 im just asking `whye' though so i know 06:37:59 i nede the facts to be in the possession of uh myself :( 06:38:01 they're all fragile and stuff 06:38:19 how about... DrNe 06:38:34 i'd play OgRe but i don't want to 06:39:05 DrWr? 06:39:20 this is hard ! 06:40:09 hmm 06:40:10 mmmmm 06:40:12 m 06:40:16 i need to check something 06:40:34 wow ogres don't 06:40:38 have many class options 06:40:39 that are recommended 06:40:42 *background 06:40:47 oh noooooooo 06:40:51 what im just 06:40:57 i dont understand whtasts the no 06:41:01 http://sprunge.us/KXDZ Aaaah 06:41:15 i played my ogwz in 0.8a and i don't know if tukima's was nerfed within 0.8a or 0.9a aaaahhhh 06:41:21 ask #crawllighte???? 06:41:47 you should play OgHe you've been overing over it for like 60 seconds 06:41:50 *hovering 06:42:19 OgTm 06:42:20 aww 06:42:27 ogtm is good though 06:43:29 i thought you wanted something `fun' 06:43:33 huh? 06:43:45 i was suggesting!!! 06:43:48 monqy: do you need help 06:43:49 with the skill system 06:43:51 its complicated 06:44:06 its too complicated for a monkey :( 06:44:36 what's not `fun' about ogcr!! 06:44:47 nothing ! 06:44:52 oh no i sent you a message but 06:44:54 it didn't prompt 06:44:57 its in limbo forever,,, 06:45:02 i dont think it works 06:45:56 im so upset 06:46:35 Ctrl+F one 06:46:38 you have to 06:46:39 phew 06:46:41 ?? 06:46:45 anyway 06:46:46 it was 06:46:46 incomplete 06:46:50 it's 06:46:56 go makhleb! or 06:46:59 it'd match if it was found 06:47:00 whatever that other altar was 06:47:01 no i have a plan 06:47:02 monqy: i know 06:47:04 it was just incomplete 06:47:07 ??? 06:47:09 you searched for the and shining 06:47:10 but not one! 06:47:14 so i told you to search for one 06:47:15 oh 06:47:43 oh :( 06:47:51 anyway i'm going to be living out my ogwz dreams as this ogcr 06:48:48 that's kind of like how my kobe tried to roleplay being a mibe or a trbe 06:48:54 unfortunately it did not have the requisite hp 06:50:29 monqy: imo worship trog 06:50:29 oops 06:50:39 elliott: i'm doing what i did on my ogwz 06:50:46 elliott: sif->tukimas->tso->holy gsc mania 06:51:04 monqy: ah, i see; you're so bad at playing now that you have to rely on past blueprints to succeed 06:51:09 nice chokepoint 06:51:15 what 06:51:20 iit's not about the success 06:51:27 im `teasing yuo' 06:51:32 ok 06:52:17 what happened 06:52:34 first level is so many keypresses uuugh 06:53:02 "it gets better" - elliott, phd 06:53:23 if you need excitement try quaffing fountains; picking up & wielding terrible weapons; adopting a bat 06:53:28 *try: 06:53:33 adopting a bat? 06:53:54 resting, ugh 06:54:12 monqy: shoudl have gone dd 06:54:22 ais523: just walk around with a bat trying to kill yuo its adorable 06:56:09 yes 06:56:10 trog 06:56:12 :( 06:56:34 it'd be great trog would be constantly angry at you! 06:56:54 nice exploding gnoll 06:57:34 monqy: oh i forgot the other good thing about crawl light 06:57:37 sacrificing is so easy mmmm 06:58:21 nice temple entry vault 06:58:28 do stats ever regain naturally 06:58:36 i expect not 06:58:37 how did you lose 'em 06:58:40 berk 06:58:52 dont you have a potion of fix that 06:59:02 imo every potion should be "potion of fix X" 06:59:07 potion of fix not being poisoned 06:59:22 whoa i wasnt looking at the sfcren 06:59:25 it was 06:59:27 orc party 06:59:30 orc was killing you 06:59:31 then 06:59:33 you walked down and 06:59:34 another orc 06:59:39 "farewell, squarelos" 06:59:42 i only saw the first orc 06:59:55 monqy: you died as soon as you saw the second orc 06:59:58 maybe on the very same turn, maybe on the next 06:59:59 how does sacrificing work in Light? just walk over the corpse? 07:00:00 so 07:00:02 "you didn't miss much" 07:00:06 ais523: p sacrifices everything in los 07:00:09 aha 07:00:21 there are other things you can do with corpses so walking over them doing that would be a pain 07:00:28 (imo sacrifices should be removed but) 07:00:55 more squarelos reasons: would let you sacrifice even more corpses in one go 07:03:20 monqy: go fedhas 07:03:25 ive literally never seen anyone worship fedhas 07:03:33 i have no idea what it's like 07:03:42 go fedhas yourself 07:03:55 impolite :( 07:04:18 monqy: better banish that grey rat 07:04:58 ugh the lack of the water indicator is super annoying 07:06:23 monqy "too good to do a sewer with 2 AC" 07:06:52 nice robe 07:07:22 nice temple 07:07:30 monqy: not getting a god yet? 07:07:49 "plans" 07:08:00 i dont understand your plans :o 07:10:07 hm maybe it's curropted templ 07:10:11 should "check it out" 07:11:32 im excite 07:11:39 it wasnt 07:11:42 oops 07:11:44 -god 07:12:39 what a lame acq for nonpolearms 07:12:49 monqy: did i miss pandoora opening :( 07:12:50 i miss so much 07:12:55 nice flipped pandoora 07:13:00 huh? 07:13:05 it was the other way around for me 07:13:20 vaults in Crawl are rotatable by default 07:13:23 unless you tell them not to be 07:15:56 little known secret: in light you have a "get free mp for free" ability 07:16:33 maybe I should pick a god now 07:16:55 monqy: what's the ability 07:17:00 is it 5 07:17:17 forgetting spells in crawl gives you back the mp the spell's worth 07:17:28 in light you get that as an ability costing 7 glow 07:17:56 which ability 07:18:07 forgetting spells? (if so, what cost does it have in carwl) 07:18:10 *corl 07:18:28 in normal crawl you have to use a scroll of amnesia, and before that you had to use a 4mp spell or the corresponding sif ability but if you;--forget spell--re with sif you--that's what i'm writing right now--can use channeling to gregain mp so 07:18:42 oh, so it's not an ability in regular corl 07:18:43 `huh' 07:18:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: huh': not found 07:18:54 i wonder why 07:18:57 i mean 07:19:00 i wonder why light added it 07:19:04 monqy: foiled by euclid 07:23:01 monqy: remember D:6 is more than D:6 because shorter dunjen! 07:23:06 "hlepful advice from elliott" 07:23:06 yes i know 07:23:15 monqy: no you needed me for my advice 07:23:17 everyone does 07:25:00 monqy: fungus 07:25:07 i know 07:25:09 "more helpful elliott advice" 07:25:20 stay tuned for: banish that weak monster 07:26:07 ugh randomised movement energ 07:26:30 don't you have some wands or something yuo're pillar dancing its an embarrassment to monqy 07:26:32 ok that works 07:27:32 am i bad if i kinda like randomised movement energy btw 07:27:36 yes 07:27:45 but it nerfs pillar dancing! 07:27:52 but it buffs it too 07:28:00 howso; because sometimes you move twice instead? 07:28:07 or the monster moves 0 etc. 07:28:09 since you can dance until the monsters loses a move and then you can go up stairs and bam you're escaped 07:28:15 hmm 07:28:15 I remember giving quite a bit of feedback on that 07:28:20 is randomised movement energy only for monsters, not for you? 07:28:21 and it's also really yucky and doesnt really work all that well against pillar dancing 07:28:23 randomized movement lets you get a lead 07:28:24 I assumed it was for both 07:28:25 it's only ofr monsters 07:28:26 oh 07:28:28 well if it was for both 07:28:30 so it doesn't really hurt pillar dancing 07:28:31 i don't like it 07:28:33 then it would make pillar dancing ineffective 07:28:34 at all 07:28:48 easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove regen over time" 07:28:52 dancgin 07:28:58 precisel 07:29:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:29:11 i wonder why they added it then 07:29:13 if it's only for monsters 07:29:13 Hello! 07:29:25 what do you mean 07:29:30 well 07:29:35 why did they add randomised movement energy 07:29:37 if not to nerf pillar dancing 07:29:38 it effectively applies to the player too since monsters get extra moves and lose them 07:29:42 it was to nerf pillar dancing 07:29:46 well ok 07:29:56 what extra gain would it be to make it apply to player too 07:29:59 easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove pillars" 07:32:42 hmm 07:32:46 hm? 07:32:52 is there any way to get non-pathological terrain that does not allow for pillar dancing 07:33:03 seems like your level layouts would end up being degenerate blobs 07:33:05 NO PILLARS 07:33:09 yes that's the idea 07:33:13 08:29 easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove pillars" 07:33:24 PILLARS YOU CAN PUNCH THROUGH 07:33:27 i was defining a pillar more precisely as "anything that allows for pillar dancing" 07:33:38 where pillar dancing is defined as "going around a pillar to recover HP while followed by a monster" 07:33:39 What's pillar dancing? 07:33:41 Ah 07:33:52 Better monster AI? 07:34:14 I suggested that Xom should just collapse pillars if you walked round them enough 07:34:16 i'm not sure what monster AI could do with it 07:34:19 if it just went the other way 07:34:21 you could just 07:34:24 pillar walk back and forth 07:34:28 If you're pillar dancing, another monster comes and helps 07:34:32 ais523: ++ 07:34:51 monqy: i think ais523's solution is even better than removing regen 07:35:01 ais523: is that regardless or whether or not you're worshipping Xom? 07:35:04 *of 07:35:14 the regen removal isn't just for pillar dancing 07:35:20 it's also because i hate resting off damage 07:35:22 monqy: i was being `unserious' 07:35:25 among other things 07:35:42 it's hard to tell when sometimes you like bad things!! 07:35:49 monqy: wow ouch my pain 07:35:52 im offend 07:35:57 offend & upset 07:36:07 note that: i have impeccable taste 07:37:53 eel party 07:38:03 i missed a gost? 07:38:37 yes 07:38:40 :( 07:38:45 was it fun 07:38:46 it was a wimp 07:38:47 aw 07:38:48 elliott: I'm not sure 07:38:50 but it says "powerful"! 07:39:01 *im 07:39:11 ais523: I think it's a nice idea for Xom to do things sometimes even if you don't worship them 07:39:28 ais523: if he doesn't, he doesn't really have much credibility as the god of random chaos 07:39:39 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:39:53 (things that bother me: the overlap between xom and lugonu's flavour) 07:40:06 i can rationalise the differences to myself but it still feels like rationalisation) 07:40:11 s/\)$// 07:40:20 lugonu flavour = lugonu hates everyone 07:40:23 more than random chaos 07:40:35 lugonu just corrupts things because other gods don't like it, IMO 07:40:40 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:40:49 ais523: well, the Abyss is pretty chaotic 07:41:09 not really 07:41:37 my view of the differences is: Xom is all about arbitrary, meaningless chaos and only cares about being amused; Lugonu is the god of chaos of a destructive sort, motivated by aforementioned "Lugonu hates everyone" 07:44:44 btw, what *is* with the jiyva-having-a-random-surname thing 07:45:05 because random-descriptions-for-X is one of the most common Crawl feature requests 07:45:15 (X is frequently Xom, despite them being implemented already for him) 07:45:27 what kind of random descriptions does Xom have? 07:45:42 try pressing ^ when worshipping Xom 07:45:46 I can't really remember 07:45:58 IIRC they were planning to expand the list, maybe they already hae 07:46:00 *have 07:47:04 anyway, a surname doesn't count as a description :) 07:47:14 monqy: ah this is the death yake level isn't it 07:47:24 no 07:47:26 oh 07:47:29 oops 07:48:01 nice piety 07:49:53 monqy: are you sure it's not the death yake levl it looks so much like it maybe im thinking of another one 07:50:01 it's elephants level 07:50:08 maybe that's what i mean 07:50:12 monqy: by death yakes i mean 07:50:13 secret chamber thing 07:50:15 once yr done 07:50:18 statues become death yake 07:50:22 they become dire elephants 07:50:27 oh 07:50:30 same thing -dog 07:51:20 monqy: good luk 07:51:58 like 70% of crawl targeting is exploiting the bresenham algorithm 07:52:47 monqy: did you already kill the boss thing 07:52:52 "more things elliott didn't notice" 07:52:54 yes 07:52:59 was it the anaconda 07:53:01 yes 07:53:02 oh 07:53:08 i forget this level completely!!! 07:53:11 and I occasionally forget to ghaste instead of berk so i have horribel stats 07:53:35 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:53:51 oh wow 07:54:00 is there no potions of make that better lying around 07:54:15 lying around as in 07:54:17 ctrl+ffable 07:54:18 but 07:54:18 someone destroyed the one i started with and i havent found anotherr 07:54:20 "i guess not" 07:54:23 ais523: Str: 10 (20); Dex: 5 (13) 07:54:30 ais523: "that's our monqy" 07:55:18 mayb i;ll find some in orc 07:55:41 i hate this eantrnace vault 07:55:41 ugh 07:55:43 really hate 07:56:27 oh i got a worse one 07:56:30 with a priest in the othe rone 07:56:34 *other one" - elliott 07:56:40 wizards are worse than priests for me 07:56:45 predict splat into deep water 07:56:48 aw 07:57:17 nice dragonbane 07:57:27 monqy: i know they are for you 07:57:36 but not for me because i play mostly heavy armours ! 07:57:52 heavy armours don't shield your items from brutal wizard death 07:58:02 you;'re just careless about being in los of priests 07:58:07 monqy: true but i care about my hp more than my items!!! 07:58:11 :'( 07:58:16 nice ogremaurice 07:58:57 have you found a gsc yet 07:59:01 i guess not since you're not wielding one 07:59:15 i found one in ?acq but i picked 3dex instead 08:00:11 monqy: the joke is that you'd have a lot more than 3 extra dex if etc. 08:00:35 yes 08:01:31 hi gsc 08:01:48 nice ogr pak 08:01:50 good, ogre ending 08:01:58 this will fuel my tukimas nicely 08:02:01 gogre ending 08:02:04 whats tukimas :( 08:02:10 nice hp 08:03:14 how do you get sif piety 08:03:15 would be nice if i hand blink 08:03:17 casting spelles? 08:03:18 spelz 08:03:19 training spell skills 08:03:21 ah 08:03:31 "too easy" - trog & makhleb & lugonu guy 08:03:38 (the guy is me) 08:03:48 waht 08:04:19 too easy piety gain thing 08:04:22 no 08:04:22 monqy: whats awht 08:04:33 help 08:04:45 it's actually more restrictive than killing things since if you want your xp to go into non-spellcasty skills you'll be spread thinner 08:04:50 and you still have to kill things to get the xp 08:04:59 oh the tedium i meant was 08:05:00 the saccing 08:05:17 oh 08:05:17 (more annoying in corl as ghoule where you could pretty much go for a snack at any time) 08:05:59 you could use that dex robe 08:06:00 : p 08:06:04 what a useless orc3 08:06:15 idk do you have a cloak oh wait ogre 08:06:18 i dont know how ogre do armour 08:06:36 theay can wear robes and dragon armoures 08:06:42 but not cloak? 08:07:01 that's not body armoure 08:07:08 help : ( 08:07:16 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:24 of nonbody they can do cloak, nonbuckler shields, caps, hats (no helmet) 08:07:52 ok 08:08:04 i was just saying re "lol @ that orc 3" 08:08:13 because it had clok (albeit waste of money to spend on clok but) 08:08:19 what robe are you wearing anyway 08:08:27 wait a mo 08:08:29 yeah 08:08:30 +2 08:08:46 same robe 08:08:50 just elven instead of orcish 08:09:23 uugh no tukimas yet :( 08:09:34 and no snake pit 08:09:42 you should do slime, i have this great slime strategy 08:10:08 it involves berking the royal jelly and then teleporting away after it finishes 08:10:18 100% success rate 08:10:25 wow swamp looks aweful 08:10:30 have I ever mentioned how I hate swamp 08:10:40 if you did i don't remember 08:10:45 it looks like shoals to me 08:10:47 except more boring 08:11:50 monqy: nice amulet too bad 08:11:51 int is 08:11:54 your only undrained stat!!!! 08:12:01 wait where did you get acq 08:13:21 floor 08:13:22 monqy: nice insubstantial wisps; nice hp 08:13:30 have I ever mentioned how I hate swamp 08:13:30 imo banish the wisps 08:13:46 congrates 08:14:50 monqy: 7 is such a bad tree glyph 08:14:52 what were they thinking 08:14:58 probably "oh no we've run out of ascii" 08:15:08 i don't mind 7 08:15:31 ooh party tricks 08:15:54 patry triqs 08:16:01 nice slime creatures mmmmmmm 08:16:05 this looks like the worst branch 08:16:14 it's up there 08:16:20 what's the worst 08:16:28 swamp or abyss or something 08:16:46 i kinda like abyss on account of being intentionally awful 08:16:51 i cant imagine swamp was designed to be awful 08:17:01 meleeing a powerful mdfi "good ideas" 08:17:33 why do people like mountain dwarvs again i honestly dont get it 08:17:37 and im a dorf fan 08:18:15 desert dwarves are so much better 08:18:31 s/powerful/mighty/ 08:18:35 Taneb: imo yes 08:18:46 wow dtsund uses meph 08:18:50 im not playing crawl light any more also jesus 08:18:50 (are desert dwarves a thing?) 08:18:52 your items 08:18:53 stope 08:18:54 ugh i forgot to flight myself 08:19:10 have you considered running 08:19:23 also there's shallow water you could jump into!!! 08:19:40 lol 08:19:48 picking up the scrolls before you stop being flames 08:21:52 ugh is this undead ending ugh 08:22:08 monqy: joke's that the curses don't do anything also yuo're dying 08:22:44 ah right, joke's I have scblink 08:22:53 you learned cblink? 08:22:56 scblink 08:22:59 what's scblink 08:23:04 semicontrolled 08:23:05 ok 08:23:21 monqy: ps did you know you can train things not on the m list 08:23:25 fun factules 08:23:31 ugh dddrake 08:23:33 yes i know 08:23:41 (super) duper death drake 08:25:39 yuo're dying monqy 08:25:48 dont die 08:26:06 good thing crawl light has no monster regen! 08:26:09 monqy: btw 08:26:16 monqy: you're not on hard mode you realise 08:26:20 i realise 08:26:23 but 08:26:25 hive sucks?? 08:26:29 monqy: dude the bee castle is 08:26:31 really really easy 08:26:34 but it's 08:26:35 hiiiive 08:26:37 takes 3 minutes with rPois more than 3 minutes with rPois 08:26:40 monqy: it's not hive it's bee castle! 08:26:45 it's hive 08:26:46 special just for normal mode players 08:26:53 ok monqy i guess you're just not up to 08:26:55 hard mode 08:26:57 it's ok 08:27:01 we can't all be winners 08:28:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:28:25 seems like you can't even handle normal mode monqy!!! 08:28:48 are you in water 08:28:54 oh flying 08:32:05 monqy: actually im not sure the branches actually change with pandoora 2 08:32:07 erm 08:32:09 the branches above the barrier 08:32:25 im not sure either! 08:34:08 monqy: 08:34:09 09:32 dtsund: Are the branches above the barrier affected by hard-mode? 08:34:10 09:32 Or is it just the dungeon and branches below the barrier? 08:34:10 09:33 The latter. 08:34:12 09:33 Okay, cool. 08:34:14 09:33 I didn't want to punish the player for opening the door early. 08:34:17 09:33 But it still applies to the whole dungeon, right, not just the part below that barrier? 08:34:18 09:33 Of course, this means that 3-runers in Hard will probably eventually just want to get their third rune from Slime; I might have to move the Slime entrance. 08:34:20 09:33 Just the part below the barrier. 08:34:22 09:34 Ah, okay. 08:34:24 hope this assists 08:34:26 "i guess you can wait then" 08:34:47 monqy: 09:34 The hard-mode challenge prior to the barrier will be to conserve resources as much as possible, since item generation gets curtailed in hard-mode. 08:34:49 monqy: See, less items. 08:34:52 You like less items. 08:36:57 monqy: I guess that's precluded by getting all yr items smashed/burned though!!! 08:39:33 monqy: wow you get all the ghosts 08:39:42 it shot iood at itself 08:39:48 good ghost 08:40:03 wow what's that ring 08:40:21 -dam but a lot of useful stuff 08:40:26 You crush the merfolk like a grape!!! 08:40:29 so i swap it on when i need sinv or rpois or something 08:40:54 monqy: hope you feel conservational 08:41:51 all i want is tukimas dance is that too much to ask for :( 08:42:19 monqy: maybe you'll get it in hard mode if you hold on to yr items!!! 08:42:28 "crawl light giveth; & also taketh away sometimes" 08:43:35 monqy: yr spells look fun. i should play something that does spells next crawl ss/light game 08:43:47 oh no i'm getting addicted to "yr" again 08:43:52 is yr bad 08:44:01 I use yr a lot!! 08:44:15 no it's great 08:44:27 that's why i'm getting addicted to it!!! 08:45:21 monqy: careful 08:45:22 that's an alligator 08:45:26 what 08:45:42 oh wait its snapping turtle not alligator snapping turtle 08:48:24 whose poly 08:48:29 polyphemus 08:48:31 unique cyclop 08:48:31 whose 08:48:34 o 08:48:44 death yake "not pushover" 08:48:51 careful ! 08:48:57 i forgot to hast 08:48:58 im doing my best monqy impression 08:49:16 haste seems a bit "o p" to me!!! 08:49:17 oh that's what the space was for 08:49:21 what space 08:49:29 careful ! 08:49:31 light reverted the haste nerf 08:49:35 oh 08:49:43 well i do the space thing a lot now anyway because of you 08:49:47 i try to control it but it's difficult! 08:49:48 oops 08:50:13 i dont like some of the things light does 08:50:20 like the nerf-reversing 08:53:53 nice hp - joe biden, 2006 08:53:55 forgot to put on rpois 08:53:58 sea snakes hurt 08:54:28 nice hp - mitt romney, 4 ad 08:54:48 monqy: nice tukima's 08:54:56 elliott: :( 08:54:57 the joke is: no tukima's 08:55:25 monqy: see if crawl had a wishing system like nethack... 08:56:26 _You see here Sif Muna's Almanac of Improving Self {god gift}. 08:56:33 yes 08:56:35 monqy: pretty passive-aggressive of sif muna imo 08:56:42 "here's a self-help book" 08:56:46 "i wrote it myself just for you" 08:56:49 "help yourself" 08:56:55 yay finally 8 hours of sleep ^^ 08:57:27 monqy: i have an imrpotrant theological question 08:57:31 when you become the champion of $god 08:57:32 it's always 08:57:36 THE champion 08:57:43 what happens to all the other worshipper's piety??? 08:57:46 *worshippers' 08:57:54 who know 08:58:02 how come your piety is never decreased by other people becoming the champion IT ODESNTJ MAKE SENSE 08:58:24 - david cameron 08:58:52 nice fire-catching imo 08:59:02 nice tukima's 08:59:07 nice sputterflies 08:59:21 i've never cast it yet 08:59:28 but it's so beautiful 08:59:33 even the abbreviated name is beautiful 08:59:46 rate 09:01:16 monqy: staff of energy sounds overpowered imo 09:01:21 ye 09:01:30 it was nerfed in normal carwl 09:01:37 "added to the monqy conduct list" 09:01:43 `quote cblink 09:01:47 826) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 09:01:48 the monqy conduct bible 09:02:10 what was the nerf in normal crawl 09:02:11 half hunger? 09:02:30 im curious too 09:02:40 elliott: it's acceptable in normal cawlr because hunger sucks 09:02:50 meph on the other hand is making fights boring 09:02:55 monqy: what does it do in normal crawl 09:03:02 used to eliminate spell hunger 09:03:04 now halves it or smth 09:03:06 ah 09:03:35 monqy: i have this fear that light's replacement of hunger with glow for most everything is going to end up reproducing the hunger mechanism 09:03:47 i hope it doesn't 09:03:52 have you found hive yet 09:04:11 it won't reproduce hunger but i don't like it because of resting glow off 09:04:15 resting things off is eughgh 09:04:21 monqy: right so if they remove resting it off... 09:04:36 but yeah did you find hive 09:04:38 *yeah did 09:04:42 ah 09:04:43 enjoy 09:04:52 "might want yr rPois" 09:05:03 - monqy 09:05:34 quaff mut quaff mut quaff mut 09:05:35 elliott, monqy update a number of minutes back 09:05:47 (dont quaff mut) 09:05:51 (unless you have cure mut in which case quaff mut) 09:05:56 (elliott advice) 09:06:57 monqy: see, not just bees! 09:07:11 predicting deep water splat 09:07:28 'resting glow off' 09:07:42 monqy: that's the pandoora lmao 09:07:43 maybe crawl light should keep a list of all hard looking monsters you've seen on the level. whenever the list clears your glow becomes 0 automatically 09:07:50 monqy: hey wait 09:07:53 are you skipping the rest of hive 09:07:55 that's not fair you gotta get: 09:07:56 the loot 09:10:31 monqy: think of it on the bright side 09:10:36 now you can do hive! 09:12:00 monqy: btw i doubt your save will end up fixed 09:12:06 =/ 09:12:17 monqy: through the combined powers of laziness and dtsund not having access to the server 09:12:31 monqy: which server are you on 09:12:43 cdo 09:13:00 cast lots of meph for me 09:13:09 why is elynae playing the tutorial 09:15:00 rC-!!! 09:15:05 it adds exclamation marks to yr rC 09:15:26 is that fda what used to be xtahua 09:18:25 monqy: this D:19 sure does look like vaults 09:18:31 it happens 09:19:54 monqy: do you use macros; macros are weird 09:20:21 I use macros myself but not so much on robins 09:20:48 "I use macros myself" -- monqy "spacebar" monqys-surname 09:22:03 and technically autofight is a lua macro that's hardcoded to be bound to tab 09:22:09 so even you use macro 09:22:40 that's stock tho 09:22:42 and also lua 09:24:30 monqy: anyway by macros i meant 09:24:32 non-lua macros 09:24:35 oh 09:24:36 i use those too 09:24:55 :( 09:26:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:28:44 what's twistedres 09:28:46 and what's new twistedres 09:29:02 twisted resurrection 09:29:21 nice portal 09:29:22 whats it to 09:29:24 turns corpses into purmanent allies 09:29:29 monqy: whats new resurectednjtwiste 09:29:29 d 09:29:47 old twistedres turned stacks of corpses into permanent allies (the bigger the stack, the stronger the ally) 09:30:12 new twistedres turns corpses into macabre masses and stuff which merge together into abominations so you don't have to play the corpse stacking game 09:30:41 that sounds better 09:30:52 is it better 09:31:56 it makes the spell better, yes 09:32:12 monqy: what was the portal btw 09:32:29 abys 09:32:45 oh 09:33:04 monqy: ps yuo've convinced me re movement energy randomisation 09:33:33 yaey 09:33:48 time to show my support for the cause 09:34:24 "support showd"" 09:34:27 s/"$// 09:34:33 what did you do 09:34:37 #crawllighte 09:34:41 oh that 09:34:51 awaiting my paycheque from monqy 09:35:09 -!- Dr_Frankenstein has joined. 09:35:28 -!- Dr_Frankenstein has left. 09:35:35 paycheque in thumbs up and a pat on the back 09:36:03 im rich 09:43:07 monqy: the uppercase names scare me a bit. do they scare you. 09:43:13 i'm intimidated. 09:43:28 i like them 09:43:47 monqy: they scare me. 09:43:51 SLAYING is a scary name. 09:45:31 monqy: nice very hungry 09:50:29 monqy: nice hp 09:53:03 fight boris 09:53:05 monqy: fight boris 09:53:11 if you must flee 09:53:12 flee to vault 09:53:15 thx 09:55:22 -!- derdon has joined. 10:02:15 elliott, I just remembered that the Crawl tutorial is broken 10:02:19 I should tell someone 10:02:23 yr missing MEPHITICCLOUD right now 10:02:32 crawl.develz.org port 345 watch it stat it's the most hilarious crawl play ever 10:04:01 which one? 10:04:14 never mind 10:04:32 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:04:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:04:52 nortti: MEPHITICCLOUD 10:04:55 Hello! 10:07:16 What's hilarious about it? 10:08:45 Sgeo: you started watching just after the streak of really hilarious stuff stopped 10:08:54 but maybe you saw the scroll-iding of a book! 10:09:23 before that he miraculously berserked boris to death and then started dying after he started typing a note without pressing : first causing random things to happen 10:09:25 I'm tempted to ask "Couldn't you just read the book?" but I guess that's why it's hilarious 10:09:27 and then uh 10:09:29 other things happened 10:09:30 Sgeo: yes 10:09:46 It's going a bit fast for me to process 10:09:54 11:02 i like how it sort of seems like monqy knows what he's doing 10:09:54 11:02 and then it quickly turns bad every time 10:10:02 right now it's mostly boring grinding 10:10:06 hence why it's going so fast 10:10:18 Ping me if it gets interesting 10:10:30 I'm looking for an image in Pidgin 10:14:03 Sgeo: it got funny 10:14:08 monqy: hold off! 10:14:10 sgeo needs to "see" 10:14:14 I see 10:14:33 Something about should have bought a scroll 10:14:47 Oh e survived 10:14:47 it was exciting executioner melee 10:15:42 Why is this ViewMTN thing being slow 10:16:11 Why would you want to do what> 10:16:40 Sgeo: its still interesting _Enter note: time to fcloud some demons with no rpois 10:16:41 do what 10:16:43 oh 10:16:44 walk into lava 10:16:47 that's what it says if you try 10:17:16 Chrome is being annoying :/ 10:17:22 mmm splat time 10:33:02 monqy: duplicate firbeall? 10:42:37 Sgeo: interest 10:43:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:00:55 Hey, PH 11:01:21 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:13:23 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:13:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:29:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:03:44 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:03:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:17:10 -!- coppro has joined. 12:29:39 -!- itidus20 has joined. 12:30:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:31:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:38:01 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 12:39:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:43:57 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:51:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:59:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:05:30 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:11:13 -!- derdon has joined. 13:21:12 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:26:38 ok guys, heres a puzzle: eee, esw, ese, ene, een, ees, ense 13:32:32 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 13:34:32 itidus20, looks like compass directions 13:34:49 es????e 13:35:03 Is my guess 13:35:24 Well, not a good guess 13:36:44 3e,3e1s,5e2s,7e1s,9e,11e1s,13e1s 13:37:08 I have no idea how that is useful, nor whether that's correct 13:40:12 All I will say is that there is a meaning to it all, and it's fairly unambiguous once you see it. >:-) 13:41:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:42:45 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:47:29 sighs 13:47:47 ok to help out.. there are some isomorphic ways the puzzle could be presented 13:50:03 the puzzle could also be presented isomorphically: sss, sen, wnw, wsw, sww, nww, wnsw 13:50:24 i dunno if the word isomorphic is appropriate here though.. 13:50:52 but the ultimate meaning of the puzzle is the same for both 13:52:43 or maybe its better if i said 13:52:53 www, sen, wnw, wsw, sww, nww, wnsw 13:57:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:00:27 Sgeo: ok i'll put it another way that might help, ok? :D 14:00:40 Sorry, wasn't paying attention 14:00:46 no no its ok 14:01:40 Sgeo: here it is reformulated eeee, eswn, ense, eese, eene, eeen, eees 14:05:06 * Sgeo is reading http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radar/Animaniacs 14:07:14 ok ok ill just spell it out cos its not really worth going on about any longer.. its compass directions to draw tetris pieces >:-) 14:09:17 Ah, cool 14:11:05 -!- itidus22 has joined. 14:15:05 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:19:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:22:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:37:17 -!- Gregor has set topic: not Tom Morow's topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:45:22 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 15:22:27 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:22:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:35:04 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:45:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:45:29 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 15:45:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:47:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:48:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:48:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:48:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:51:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:55:26 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 17:28:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:28:54 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:32:41 itidus21: i guessed that it meant that but i didn't realize in my head that those were the tetris pieces, is there a consolation price for being that stupid? 17:33:19 i drew them first on paper.. and i had written abcd in the boxes 17:33:27 and i got the idea while stareing at them 17:34:24 first of all its confusing because.. i included the initial position 17:34:54 also.. its confusing because it acts as if tetris pieces are set in stone 17:35:10 like oriented a specific way 17:36:47 -!- nortti_ has joined. 17:37:17 i mean like eee kind of means o->o->o->o .. and eeee was like saying.. ->o->o->o->o 17:38:07 and then www was like saying o<-o<-o<-o 17:43:14 i think if i included an extra character like p for pen toggle.. then it would become more useful 17:43:57 and start coming closer to being an esolang component 17:47:03 *e*e*e*, *e*s*w*, *e*s*e*, *e*n*e*, *e*e*n*, *e*e*s*, *e*n*se* 17:50:29 or to make it a complete program with spacing: *e*e*e*,eee *e*s*w*,eee *e*s*e*,eee *e*n*e*,eee *e*e*n*,eee *e*e*s*,eee *e*n*se* 17:57:31 well mostly it was confusing that i have very little working memory 17:57:59 and presumably made some errors, i need east and west daily, but i still tend to confuse them :/ 18:00:10 -!- madbr has joined. 18:00:40 oklofok: well it helps in australia.. we have this state called western australia which might be about the same size as scandinavia 18:00:47 i don't know for sure 18:01:02 we also have a state called south australia 18:01:10 and a territory named northern territory 18:01:31 well we have western and eastern finland, it doesn't help. 18:01:53 yes but western australia has nothing in it.. it's essentially a giant desert 18:02:05 it still takes a second or so to check which is which unless i've used them in the last 10 minutes, and if i forget to check, occasionally they are the wrong way around. 18:02:15 i often refer to it to work out which is which 18:02:33 i use russia and usa 18:02:36 they are pretty big too 18:04:19 norway area: 385,252 km^2 .. western australia area: 2,645,615 km^2 18:04:36 i don't know why i started with norway 18:07:33 but yeah.. clearly easily dwarfs it 18:07:48 giant giant state full of little more than desert 18:09:19 i suppose the idea is that since up doesn't change much 18:09:47 but east and west (of us) are always changing 18:11:09 then crazy shigeru miyamoto decides his characters should leap between spheres 18:11:31 ahh that crazy guy 18:11:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 18:12:14 i have known of paintfuck.. its kind of disturbing i think about tetris pieces in paintfuck terms 18:13:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:15:56 so who highlighted me sometime during the past 5 days? 18:16:34 ill find out 18:18:03 2012-05-19 18:51:57: `quote 18:52:06: 831) they call finnish human-readable? 18:18:47 2012-05-18 02:22:30: 785) what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back 18:19:15 lmao.. too many quotes to list 18:26:48 what language were you talking about? 18:47:05 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:54:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:54:27 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:59:06 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:31:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:44:33 -!- mathias__ has joined. 19:46:48 hi 19:47:51 -!- mathias__ has left ("Ex-Chat"). 19:54:00 -!- ais523_ has joined. 19:55:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:55:46 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 20:03:31 -!- Gregor has set topic: This just in: Americans place kangaroos in the alps to avoid awkwardness from poor country name recollection | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:11:43 nortti: paintfuck 20:13:31 :D 20:14:23 nortti_: paintfuck, rather 20:16:08 don't worry. that message will be in my awaylog when I get to check it in aproximately 16 hours 20:20:44 nortti_: is that an automated message? 20:20:53 ni 20:20:54 i probably couldn've looked at the timestemps 20:21:11 *no 20:21:40 could've 20:26:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:28:20 hm 20:28:28 ponders a bit and a bit 20:28:45 if 3d is projection from 3d space onto 2d space 20:28:54 then 20:29:27 i wonder what kind of space that some line art and pixel art projects from 20:30:18 or is it all from 3d 20:31:01 cell shading seems to think 3d is the answer 20:57:47 -!- elliott has joined. 21:02:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:03:36 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:04:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:05:07 monqy: hi 21:05:15 wow what a coincidence i just woke up 21:05:28 like seconds ago 21:05:40 happy morning 21:05:51 verily 21:06:09 monqy: sometimes i say something to people on the exact same second they say something to me after 30 minutes plus of silence 21:06:14 * elliott telepathic 21:06:30 it happens 21:06:56 14:37:17: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: not Tom Morow's topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 21:06:59 Gregor: dude 21:07:03 we had a whole plan and everything 21:07:06 you broke it! 21:08:52 wow dtsund casts meph constantly 21:09:03 i bet light reversed the meph nerf too 21:09:26 i forget when it was added 21:09:35 i think meph was nerfed multiple times 21:10:28 we had a whole plan and everything you broke it! // 's what I do. 21:10:48 monqy: huh Enchanter got renamed to Sorcerer in light 21:10:57 yeah 21:11:06 light's ench split is a bit different than crawl's 21:11:35 i think instead of charm/hex it did enchantments/sorcery and sorcery also includes venom magic? 21:11:51 elliott: not quite renamed, they merged the schools differently 21:11:55 so it's not quite an identical role 21:12:05 and for normal crawl eronarn wants to replace venom magic with alchemy which would also steal some of tmut's spells 21:14:50 afaict crawl light started out by making the game worse by massively un-nerfing everything 21:15:13 https://github.com/dtsund/dtsund-crawl-mod/commit/f71b56fc71d2161b418bcd1cb93691ba6596b114 this is good though 21:16:11 i remember reading the original crawl light announcement and thinking it was silly but then i talked to dtsund and changed my mind. i forget what the original announcement had in it though 21:17:08 were mountain dwarves removed before they started it. i have this sneaking suspicion he likes mountain dwarves 21:17:25 (i really really hate stereotypical tolkein/d&d-style fantasy) 21:17:31 (only dwarf fortress can get away with that) 21:17:53 you know who else really hates tolkein/d&d-style fantasy? 21:17:54 dpeg 21:17:55 (me too) 21:18:09 broken clock; twice a day 21:18:39 *tolkien oops 21:18:43 thanks for copying my typo monqy 21:18:48 that one was accidental!!! 21:18:49 i don't know how to spell either 21:19:04 i used to know how to spell 21:19:08 so i just copied your spelling on the assumption that it was either correct or a splendid typo 21:19:39 i think dtsund has been asked about removing one of mi/md and said he might do it?? i forget the exact conversation that went down 21:20:12 monqy: check #crawllight the joke is 21:20:14 you got pinged anyway 21:23:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:32:52 monqy: "im assist you" 21:33:16 monqy: maybe you can open the second pandoora after all!!! 21:33:25 maybe!! 21:34:04 ais523: you just missed a great bug in #CrawlLight 21:34:14 what was it? 21:34:30 ais523: 21:34:37 22:29 hahahahaha 21:34:37 22:29 if(you.dactions[i] == DACT_SEAL_PANDOORA) 21:34:37 22:29 lua_pushboolean(ls, true); 21:34:39 22:29 return 1; 21:34:44 [...] 21:34:48 22:30 this isn't python :) 21:36:45 monqy: oh hey 21:36:47 # overall difficulty level when opened. Behind the door is a scroll of 21:36:47 # acquirement, which can be read or given to an Abyss portal later for a shot 21:36:47 # at the key to Hell. 21:37:16 elliott: are you sure that's a bug and not just intentionally obfuscated? 21:37:22 olsner: it's a bug 21:37:49 elliott: ok, boring 21:38:02 I didn't realise anyone actually made errors like that 21:38:10 it's like the if (1 == x) stuff 21:38:17 the funny spelling of PANDOOORA is perhaps funnier 21:38:34 *OO 21:38:42 it's intentional; the Pandooras are doors 21:39:02 oh, I see, that's clever 21:39:43 it's 21:39:45 not very good flavour 21:40:42 monqy: oh wow i just looked up what tukimsa is 21:40:43 *tukimas 21:40:45 's 21:42:09 I kind of wonder why it's only testing a single DACT in an if (instead of e.g. a switch), and why it's working on dactions[i] (it's in a loop that looks for pandoooras?) 21:42:30 olsner: yes, it's in a loop to check whether the pandoora was opened or not 21:48:13 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:48:49 Hmm, I wonder where the movement energy code is. 21:52:17 apparently undoing energy randomisation is actually implemented in mcrawl so you could look there 21:52:20 -!- coppro has joined. 21:52:40 * elliott is considering implementing squarelos & unrandomised movement energy for crawl-light. 21:52:44 And thanks, I will. 21:53:08 Reid Barton pushed 2448 commits to ~rwbarton/crawl/mcrawl:mcrawl. View diff 21:53:13 this will be difficult 21:53:42 that's probably merging master in 21:53:55 yeah 21:54:06 could pull mcrawl's master and mcrawl and diff them idk 21:54:34 yeah I was going to 21:55:14 22:54 crawl-light: Derrick Sund cl-trunk * rc298457 / crawl-ref/source/monster.cc : Unrandomize monster energy loss. - http://git.io/_YD1zA 21:55:15 "oops" 21:55:18 oops 22:01:17 Does anybody actually understand Cont? (self.haskell) 22:01:17 submitted 52 minutes ago by drb226 22:03:21 * ais523 vaguely wonders how many votes you'd get for answering "no" 22:03:57 I was considering being a smug jerk and linking to my really long explanation of Cont. 22:03:58 But then I didn't. 22:05:20 monqy: that's your q 22:07:33 eh? 22:08:23 23:03 You want I should try to repair it in some way? 22:08:23 23:04 I think monqy was hoping it could be 22:08:23 23:04 but you'd have to ask him 22:08:29 whereby q i meant cue 22:09:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:09:53 -!- DH____ has joined. 22:11:14 monqy: btw I was trying to figure out what the Euclidean equivalent of circlelos is... i.e. assuming Chebyshev distance, Crawl's circlelos is shorter on the diagonals than it should be 22:11:32 I think Crawl's los would be a diamond were it in Euclidean space 22:11:33 but I'm not sure 22:11:50 that probably didn't make any sense 22:11:50 huh? 22:11:57 yeah it didn't :( 22:12:03 Wikipedia sez: Did you know ... that The Lego Group produced 381 million tires (example pictured) in 2011, making it the largest tire manufacturer in the world? 22:12:13 Gregor: wh;at 22:12:15 monqy: well 22:12:22 Gregor: oh it'll be `a different lego' 22:12:28 monqy: ok so 22:12:35 elliott: Nope. 22:12:40 monqy: Euclidean space : circle LOS :: Chebyshev space : square LOS 22:12:41 elliott: Lego tires. 22:12:49 monqy: Chebyshev space : circle LOS :: Euclidean space : ? 22:13:19 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 22:13:23 i.e. if you have a transformation Chebyshev square LOS --> Euclidean circle LOS 22:13:24 then 22:13:29 Chebyshev circle LOS --> Euclidean ? LOS 22:13:32 I think ? = diamond 22:13:33 but I'm not sure 22:13:47 I was trying to get an intuition for what circle LOS actually does to your LOS 22:14:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:14:38 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:15:24 monqy: do you know what the best aprt is 22:15:25 *part is 22:15:28 you get to do hive 22:15:29 all 22:15:29 over 22:15:30 again 22:16:00 :( 22:16:34 monqy: the other best part is that you're going to have a hell of a time finding tukima's with hard mode's curtailed item generation 22:16:58 :( 22:17:35 monqy: but you can get it from sif right 22:17:39 yeah 22:17:43 that's the only reason i'm sif 22:18:32 if i had found tukimas in the first pandoora then i would have either gone some other god or tso right from the start 22:18:49 trog 22:18:50 (but i didnt found) 22:23:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:32:29 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:36:15 http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg 22:37:06 monqy, what is the topic? Some game? 22:37:31 (except that only makes sense for the last few lines??) 22:37:31 Crawl Light 22:37:34 ah 22:37:39 (a fork of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup) 22:37:43 I see 22:37:48 ((a continuation of Linley's Dungeon Crawl)) 22:37:49 is it better or worse? 22:37:55 better in some ways; worse than others 22:38:02 ah 22:38:02 certainly less annoying 22:38:06 heh 22:38:12 (it removes hunger and identification and curses) 22:38:17 I never got around to playing any version of crawl 22:38:31 oh come on, hunger is an integral part of the genre! 22:38:35 no 22:38:41 you have clearly never played crawl 22:38:46 well not crawl no 22:39:05 if we're going to judge all roguelikes by rogue then games aren't allowed to have upstairs either 22:39:06 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:39:12 this is a drawing i made just now, with some relation to brainfuck: http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg 22:39:29 Vorpal: anyway in crawl hunger mostly serves to just annoy you 22:39:31 I played angband (or was it zangband? well, some angband version anyway), a tiny bit of ADOM (don't remember much details), nethack, slash'EM 22:39:35 elliott, fair enough 22:39:43 it doesn't really have any effect on the game except sometimes you have to kill something once in a while 22:39:56 (which is pretty easy, since monsters regenerate) 22:40:01 eh 22:40:13 well, that isn't like hunger in nethack then 22:40:22 hunger in nethack is pretty crappy too 22:40:23 where it is a real threat, especially at low level 22:40:44 crawl's id game is also really boring 22:40:51 id game? 22:40:54 identification game 22:40:56 ah 22:40:58 right 22:41:00 elliott, how so? 22:41:01 read iding scrolls is trivial to make safe; quaff iding potions is a bad idea 22:41:11 fair enough 22:41:18 some jewellery use-ids 22:41:20 some doesn't 22:41:25 what about iding gems? 22:41:29 so you just read all scrolls you come across, and use scrolls of identify on potions and jewellery that doesn't use-id 22:41:32 Vorpal: there are no gems 22:41:37 ah okay 22:41:53 crawl's cursing is also really boring, it just means you can't unwield/take off/etc. the item 22:42:08 well nethack has a bit of variation there 22:42:14 the only time it's ever really a problem is when you curse your weapon and it's blunt 22:42:19 which stops you chopping corpses 22:42:21 quite a bit of variation, especially cursed scrolls and potions and so on 22:42:24 and then you starve or waste your permafood 22:44:10 Yesterday I was in Victoria 22:44:10 zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 22:44:15 I also played Dungeons&Dragons game 22:44:20 What a coincidence! I wasn't. 22:44:24 ?messages 22:44:24 nortti said 27d 6h 24m 36s ago: Myhell script gopher client: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28915864/shgopher 22:44:24 Taneb said 1d 7h 52m 58s ago: Thoughts on Prelude.Generalize: Data.Semigroups rather than Data.Monoid, perhaps? (maybe) 22:46:09 zzo38: maybe you are the one i am showing this to! http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg 22:46:27 I have plan for Dungeons&Dragons game, somehow trick the chancellor into a trap, see if there is any beholder as a member of the wizard guild, save the king, barter for services and scrolls due to lack of money..... 22:46:36 chancellor 22:46:43 oh wait that's a real word 22:47:15 I remember one game of nethack where by chance I ended up with a load of gain level potions (20 or so). So I cursed them and used them to quickly ascend after I got the amulet. 22:47:50 Vorpal: good thing you're not DeathOnAStick 22:47:58 elliott, hm? 22:48:12 Vorpal: 22:48:12 [[ 22:48:14 DeathOnAStick is a NetHack player. He/she is famous in the NetHack community for their year-and-a-half-long game on nethack.alt.org, from 2004-04-17 to 2005-11-27. They spent much of this time arduously polypiling rocks into gems and collecting pet giants to carry the abundant bags of gems for them. 22:48:14 After killing the Wizard of Yendor on dungeon level 1, they drank a potion of gain level found on its corpse. It was cursed, as it turned out. 22:48:16 Upon reaching the Plane of Earth, they desperately checked their inventory, and indeed they were carrying no gems. At this point, they went idle for 38 seconds. A few of their entourage of giants had been close enough to be dragged into the Planes with them, but they were either killed off or left behind at the inter-plane portals. Ultimately, the only gems DeathOnAStick had at their ascension were 2 dilithium crystals. 22:48:18 ]] 22:48:32 ah 22:48:35 by arduously 22:48:36 they mean 22:48:44 whole dungeon levels filled with gems 22:48:46 also 22:48:49 they don't use colours 22:48:49 well that sucks 22:48:49 or travel 22:48:52 or DES/IBMgraphics 22:48:57 or even shift+direction 22:49:07 Vorpal: the good ending is [[He/she tried again years later, ascending after 405 hours on August 16, 2010 with over 8,000 gems.]] 22:49:10 i watched it as it happened 22:49:10 it was 22:49:11 so tedious 22:49:18 half the time was spend shoving the giants around 22:49:21 wow 22:49:40 well I would never be able to bring myself to do that 22:49:45 not even once 22:50:22 I have proof that the demon has something to do with them, I borrowed one of the false guard's dagger and give it back, now I learned the demon is 2200 years old and the guard is also evil (human), the king's bed was filled with a magic dummy, and I believe the chancellor is bad person too 22:50:35 (Speaking of tedious things, who in their right mind plays EVE Online...) 22:50:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:50:53 eve is something you read about after the fact, not actually participate in 22:51:00 indeed 22:51:00 i would read an eve newspaper 22:51:05 certainly 22:51:15 the politics and so on can be quite interesting. 22:51:24 I just can't imagine ever /playing/ it 22:51:47 it seems to me to be basically Spreadsheet: The Game 22:52:03 to be fair they say the same about dwarf fortress 22:52:36 well, I never done more than a couple of calculations for df really, and that was when invading hell. 22:53:01 (or do you mean more generally? Then: sure, yeah) 22:53:11 i'm always trying to promote participation 22:53:28 itidus21, in specific or in general? 22:53:47 well.... this is probably the reason i never finished a game 22:53:57 meh 22:54:04 and eventually i forgot how to program.. blah.. this isn't my hour 22:55:32 anyway.. here is how i think brainfuck would look as a game: http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg 22:55:37 elliott, hm anyway how did he get the gems into his inventory in the end? Because iirc you need your things to be in your inventory for it to count in the score? 22:57:46 Vorpal: bags 22:57:51 Vorpal: giants 22:57:59 "They spent much of this time arduously polypiling rocks into gems and collecting pet giants to carry the abundant bags of gems for them." 22:58:26 Vorpal: well like.. a lot of games have an attack button... i think that almost prevents players really participating in the attack.. this is what appeals to me most about motion controls 22:58:29 yes quite, but do what they carry count in the score? Or do you have to get them into your own inventory at the very last step? 22:58:55 monqy: did you quaff mut 22:59:09 Vorpal: I presume what they carry counts 22:59:16 hm okay 22:59:27 i dunno how i got thos 22:59:33 monqy: i didn't see them 22:59:45 what were they? 22:59:57 itidus21, which system are you talking about? From what I heard some of them are pretty bad 23:00:02 like the kinect 23:00:07 what was that last one 23:00:09 after the -10% hp 23:00:42 (also, are you going to enchant that gsc or are you waiting for something else?) 23:00:45 Vorpal: you're right.... but the idea at least behind motion controls is good. instead of just hitting a button and letting the avatar have all the fun.. even though the execution isn't great 23:01:18 itidus21, you can have more advanced combat with a mouse and keyboard too 23:01:50 qwop lets you participate in running more than just holding the right arrow.. but it's intentionally difficult 23:01:54 itidus21, like Mount & Blade does. Where you have to attack and parry with different strength in different direction 23:02:18 never played it, watched some videos though, seems fun 23:02:52 it's not actually fun.. its painful.. 23:03:08 you tried that game? 23:03:14 qwop is great 23:03:18 but not as good as that other one 23:03:20 oh i meant qwop 23:03:28 girp 23:03:36 ah okay, I was talking about the example I gave 23:03:44 anyway qwop is absurd yeah 23:03:53 elliott, girp? 23:04:33 Vorpal: that other one. 23:04:35 hm will check that out when I'm on a computer with flash 23:04:40 can't do much atm 23:04:41 but as annoying as they are, i gotta give qwop and girp credit that tey encourage active participation 23:04:56 Vorpal: It's... an unpleasant experience. 23:05:11 elliott, sure, but I'm sure I can stand 20 seconds or so of it :P 23:05:28 Vorpal: But it's the only game that has managed to get thousands of people to dig their fingers into keys like their life depended on it. 23:05:31 itidus21, I'm not sure that is needed in all games. RTS manage just fine without it for example. 23:05:55 elliott, heh. 23:06:04 ive never used the word participation before about games.. so im throwing it about 23:06:14 elliott, do you have to hold on to something or what? 23:07:10 speaking of which: shadow of colossus. Awesome game. Played a bit of it recently at a friend's place. Pity it is PS2/PS3 exclusive. 23:07:20 Vorpal: Yes. 23:07:34 in reply to which line? 23:08:00 The one that was a question. 23:08:03 ah 23:09:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:09:18 itidus21, you should totally play Shadow of Colossus some time. Awesome game. I mean, everything is just awesome. Can't think of a single complaint about it. 23:10:36 maybe i should play shadow of the colossus some time. i hear it's an awesome game. 23:10:41 okay I have a computer with flash next to me now 23:10:53 well i have ideas about games using rube goldberg machines to build weapons in a game. 23:10:55 wait what the fuck... those girp key bindings look weird 23:11:12 how is that even possible with the "use the mouse rather than ctrl" variant 23:11:39 It probably isn't. 23:11:41 I use shift. 23:11:42 ah 23:12:10 foddy is a sadistic bastard, so i'm sure it won't be easy whatever control scheme you use 23:12:30 Vorpal: The terrible part is that the layout of the cliff is different to the keyboard layout. 23:12:33 but i have grown to like him 23:12:33 So you constantly let go of the wrong keys. 23:13:52 Vorpal: The terrible part is that the layout of the cliff is different to the keyboard layout. // quite intentionally so, of course. 23:13:54 actually that isn't causing such a big problem really, for me it is the coordination that fails 23:14:09 Gregor: Of course. 23:14:13 wrt releasing shift and whatever key I want to move 23:14:21 anyway, yeah I gave up 23:14:44 still not as tricky as qwop, I actually got a few letters up in this game 23:14:57 Gregor: i wonder what unimplemented games foddy has planned... 23:15:08 what was that weird game I saw recently... 23:15:14 Wheels 23:15:18 happy? 23:15:22 ah yes 23:15:26 really quite wtf 23:15:36 monqys-wheels 23:15:37 cr1tikal on youtube seems to review all the weird games 23:15:44 however his name is spelled 23:15:57 no idea who that is 23:16:05 yeah ... i have strange tastes 23:16:12 he did 2 attempted lets plays of oregon trail 23:16:45 what is the issue with that game now again? I don't remember 23:16:51 his attempt at qwop is on wiki as a reference 23:16:53 i have a headache :( 23:17:01 itidus21: it shouldn't be 23:17:06 lol 23:17:24 it's hardly a reliable source 23:17:30 well because he apparently triggered the chain of events that made it famous 23:17:48 he reviewed it, and then a famous guy reviewed his review 23:18:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:18:32 Happy Wheels is pretty amusing. 23:18:51 It's not like a Foddy game though, it's a legit game that's not stupidly difficult or hard to play. 23:19:07 i've forgotten how to use git :( 23:19:20 elliott: Does the man page help? 23:19:24 elliott: http://hg-git.github.com/ 23:19:31 Gregor: that'd be even worse, I'd have to use hg 23:19:54 uuugh this headache 23:20:35 Gregor, indeed 23:22:14 Hm aesthetically Happy Wheels is one of the uglier games I can think of 23:22:47 elliott: i would say try water incase of dehydration, try getting a good temperature, try sugary if your blood sugar is low, some weird woman suggested protein for headaches 23:22:49 note: b438b77489bdf288300303b2d1428781f964b8c3 23:24:57 visiting the toilet might also help 23:24:58 Also, reciting sequences of hexadecimal digits in a loud, droning monotone is good for headaches. 23:27:40 I wonder if there is cvs-git... 23:27:57 looking at pinup girls may potentially help too, but this is probably a last resort 23:28:04 (or git-cvs, that would be amazing too) 23:28:40 elliott, and if nothing else helps you could always use headache medicine. 23:28:49 usually rather unhealthy though 23:28:59 lol vorpal, you and your wild ideas... 23:29:11 itidus21, yeah, I like to think out of the box sometime 23:29:16 sometimes* 23:31:39 if you need a distraction empty your wallet into a garbage bag full of rubbish, shake it about, and then try and retrieve all your items 23:31:47 ouch 23:32:00 i haven't done this (yet) 23:32:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:33:11 itidus21, you could also try dropping a needle into a haystack. Then stir it thoroughly and try to locate the needle again. 23:33:57 well you just wouldn't have sufficient motivation 23:34:15 hm 23:34:19 thats the genius of my idea 23:34:34 "garbage bag full of rubbish" <-- what dialect has garbage bags full of rubbish ... 23:34:38 monqy: oh you're playing again! 23:34:41 what did i miss 23:34:46 itidus21, what if it was a very valuable needle? Maybe a collector item, worth a few thousand euros to the right buyer? 23:34:54 australian >.< 23:35:08 monqy: you can open that 23:35:11 Really? Hm. elliott: Are they "garbage bags" in the UK? 23:35:24 Gregor: I doubt it. But I really don't know my own dialect any more, sorry. 23:35:30 Uhh X-D 23:35:40 we certainly say rubbish bin 23:35:42 Gregor: The internet has mixed them all up for me. 23:35:50 monqy: did i miss anything exciting :( 23:35:57 no 23:36:02 im confused too. 23:36:07 monqy: did I miss anything unexciting 23:36:18 yes 23:36:27 I wonder what the bags are in Canada ... I know the bins and actual detritus are litter, which is not only an uncommon word but a different meaning in every other dialect. 23:36:28 monqy: what unexciting things did i miss :'( 23:36:33 Gregor: Filled with milk, that's what. 23:36:52 osme slime critters and stuff 23:37:07 osme slime? 23:37:13 yes 23:37:13 strange sort of slime 23:37:16 yes 23:37:17 he means some slime creatures hth 23:37:17 :P 23:37:21 elliott, I know 23:37:29 I just found the typo funny 23:37:39 nice hp 23:37:46 what hp is that? 23:37:48 low 23:37:51 35/135 23:37:52 elliott, and where can I see this? 23:37:57 telnet light.bitprayer.com, watch squarelos 23:38:13 terminal settings? 23:38:17 normal 23:38:20 80x24 23:38:23 black background (but crawl sets that itself) 23:38:24 ah 23:38:42 elliott, well I'm going to have to use putty atm. Here goes nothing... 23:38:52 there's no unicode or anything, it should work fine 23:39:08 monqy: maybe you should train armour and dodindg etc 23:39:42 no use for aermour 23:39:56 elliott, how do I send mail to the player in this game? That is always fun in nethack 23:40:05 Vorpal: the server can't do that yet 23:40:08 the file location is messed up 23:40:08 j 23:40:08 aww 23:40:12 but 23:40:15 you can press "m" to pretend 23:40:18 you need to register an account though 23:40:32 meh 23:40:42 is there a secure version of it then? 23:40:47 no 23:40:55 just log in as squarelos 23:41:00 :p 23:41:16 elliott, I don't know his password? 23:41:25 monqy: what's squarelos' password 23:41:35 that would be silly :P 23:41:42 well, I know what it is 23:41:43 and he quit too 23:41:56 i'll be right back 23:42:03 well, I need to sleep 23:42:13 Vorpal: you didn't even get to see the wonders of crawl's autoexplore! 23:42:23 need to be up early tomorrow, expecting a call by 8:00 tomorrow 23:42:36 well, 8:00 or later, can't afford to miss it 23:42:46 (getting a job) 23:42:55 what kind of job starts at 8:00 23:43:05 elliott, most normal ones 23:43:21 8:00-17:00 is the normal work hours 23:43:37 (anyway I won't start until a few weeks later) 23:44:14 elliott, you are in for a BIG surprise later :P 23:45:00 night 23:47:20 oh god Vorpal 23:47:33 oh god what does he mean big surprise 23:50:25 he means the worst possible interpretation! 23:54:25 Vorpal is in hexham, gearing up for a home invasion 23:54:46 the helsinki army will potect us 23:54:48 porotect 23:54:49 rotect 23:54:50 protect 23:57:37 they probably only protect people who say it right the first time 23:58:04 What abstracts the pattern foo [] = undefined; foo [x] = x; foo (x:x':xs) = foo (...x...x'...xs)? 23:58:10 enjoy your invaded home(s) 2012-05-21: 00:01:55 shachaf: i don't get the pattern 00:02:39 length (...x...x'...xs) == length xs - 1 00:02:44 Er, length xs + 1 00:02:55 I guess it's a bit of a strange pattern. 00:03:31 length [x] is not x 00:04:05 Unless x is 1 00:04:05 ? 00:05:58 Really [] is the wrong thing to use here anyway. 00:06:01 So never mind. :-) 00:06:46 -!- augur has joined. 00:08:20 Is (Free (Writer x)) like (Writer [x]) ? 00:16:17 If in Haskell you have a random bit interface, then the class to generate random values of a type could be: class GenRandom x where { genRandom :: Free ((->) Bool) x; }; And now you can od this: instance (GenRandom x, GenRandom y) => GenRandom (x, y) where { genRandom = liftPair (genRandom, genRandom); }; 00:19:18 instance GenRandom Bool where { genRandom = Free Pure; }; instance GenRandom () where { genRandom = Pure (); }; 00:20:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:06 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 00:26:37 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:10 monqy: ha ha ha 00:33:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:35:02 whats so funny 00:35:53 removing the spel you cast every 3 turns is funy 00:36:03 no it's not 00:36:14 it is if i want it to be!!! 00:36:30 im plan to remove all sources of flight/lev in monqys-crawl 00:36:38 take that, science 00:36:43 but why 00:37:19 because all reasons for it existing are awful and should be undone 00:37:42 what are the reasons 00:38:10 well boosting swiftness was already removed in vanilla so that's not one of them 00:38:45 in particular levitation is awful because of the whole being flight but you have to wait for it to time out before you can interact with items thing 00:39:36 maybe it has "interesting tactical uses" in few cases but normally if you're in an area with deep water or lava you maintain it, and if you don't have it, you don't go there 00:40:39 monqy: yeah im fine with items being interactable all the time 00:40:47 so "merge 'em" 00:41:32 i don't know what to do with water/lava since i don't quite want to do the full mcrawl with them but they're awful as-is too 00:42:46 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:55:21 -!- augur has joined. 00:57:22 -!- elliott has joined. 00:57:22 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 00:57:22 -!- elliott has joined. 01:07:38 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:10:59 -!- Guest80090 has joined. 01:11:07 -!- Guest80090 has changed nick to elliott. 01:11:09 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 01:11:09 -!- elliott has joined. 01:20:38 monqy: hi 01:20:44 hhhelo 01:21:25 hi 01:21:42 I just finished this week’s electronics homework. 01:21:53 which week 01:22:41 this 01:23:15 there are many weeks containing today ! 01:23:35 Whichever week it is in Massachusetts. 01:23:47 that's not helpful 01:24:07 monqy: what week is it in california :( 01:24:50 there are many weeks containing today ! 01:24:55 which week do you mean 01:25:00 that one 01:25:02 hlep 01:25:20 there's a week starting today, a week ending today, a week with today as the second day, 01:25:37 there is no week with today as the eighth day because weeks do not have eight days 01:26:24 The deadline is in 2½ hours AFAIU. 01:26:32 monqy: maybe some weeks do! 01:26:40 my weeks don't 01:26:58 monqy: Weeks don’t have eight days? Which planet are you on? 01:27:10 plauto 01:27:37 ion: you doing the MIT course? 01:27:46 quintopia: yeah 01:27:59 i considered it 01:28:01 monqy: the only planet ever founded by the ancient roman plato 01:28:24 quintopia: It has been great. I’ve wanted to learn electronics since i was a kid. 01:28:30 elliott: who was the ancient roman plato 01:28:57 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:29:05 ion: i learned some electronics by reading the ARRL handbook and various websites. i find it is better to learn by doing. 01:29:31 -!- elliott has joined. 01:30:57 quintopia: the ancient roman plato was the founder of the planet plauto 01:31:41 elliott: thanks for the circularity. the real question is whether the ancient roman plato was a philosopher like plato was 01:31:51 who's plato 01:31:54 you mean the ancient roman? 01:32:20 no i was referring to the greek philosopher, student of socrates 01:32:32 stop making people up 01:32:54 well, who is going to inhabit your made-up planet if i don't? 01:33:19 monqy: what is quintopia on about 01:34:38 monqy: what is elliott off about 01:35:21 off about? 01:35:25 he's dead on 01:35:30 about the ancient roman plato 01:36:04 very dead and very on 01:36:36 is elliott "ancient roman" also? 01:37:23 monqy: oh no your client puts a space after the < 01:37:28 please fix, please fix, please fix 01:37:35 it hurts me more than anything 01:38:32 i'm not going to fix it 01:38:45 i actually kind of like it?? 01:38:54 no 01:38:55 monqy 01:38:56 stop 01:38:59 you can't do this to me 01:39:00 no 01:39:01 fix it 01:39:03 correct 01:39:03 im gojing to do it 01:39:04 it\ 01:39:06 no 01:39:07 no 01:39:08 no 01:39:08 you can't! 01:39:09 no 01:39:10 stop 01:39:10 i can 01:39:12 fix it 01:39:14 fix it now 01:39:16 il never stop 01:39:19 18:39:10 < elliott> stop 01:39:20 18:39:12 < elliott> fix it 01:39:20 18:39:14 < elliott> fix it now 01:39:26 what client 01:39:29 do you use 01:39:31 i'd bold the spaces but 01:39:34 cant bold spaces 01:39:40 irssi 01:39:40 tell me monqy 01:39:44 -!- elliott has quit. 01:39:46 you could just VERSION me 01:39:51 what a jerk !!! 01:40:06 -!- elliott has joined. 01:40:11 i did 01:40:12 version you 01:40:13 but 01:40:15 my internet 01:40:15 died 01:40:17 so 01:40:19 the 01:40:21 connection dropped 01:40:26 monqy: ok 01:40:27 oh 01:40:57 /set show_nickmode_empty off 01:40:57 just 01:40:58 try it 01:40:59 for me 01:41:18 Don’t do it. 01:41:26 i;m not going to do it 01:41:27 just try it monqy 01:41:29 come on 01:41:31 pal 01:41:32 try it 01:41:33 friend 01:41:40 I’m not your buddy, pal! 01:41:42 what's your problem with the spaces 01:41:46 one 01:41:51 they're asymmetric wrt the > 01:41:51 two 01:42:02 the < looks horribly disconnected from the nick itself, esp. as <> aren't really the greatest enclosers in the first place 01:42:05 three 01:42:06 They’re symmetric wrt. the @, + 01:42:06 it's hideous 01:42:09 four 01:42:11 yes what ion said 01:42:15 it means that you break everyone else's awk scripts 01:42:21 monqy: nobody's @ and + on freenode!!! 01:42:21 and also 01:42:24 if you're going to align things like that 01:42:25 Everyone else’s awk scripts suck. 01:42:26 then 01:42:26 their awk scrips can go die 01:42:27 yes they are 01:42:29 you should be using right-aligned nicks 01:42:33 i see @ and + all the time 01:42:34 like xchat does 01:42:37 cf crawl-dev 01:42:44 if you don't want that : don't put a space after the monqy: well they're ~breaking network guidelines~ so there 01:42:54 turn off 01:42:55 the space 01:42:56 immediately 01:42:57 no 01:43:00 shut up!!! 01:43:00 yes 01:43:02 no 01:43:02 ! 01:43:04 ! 01:43:04 it's wrong 01:43:06 and immoral 01:43:08 you;re wrong 01:43:08 and horrible 01:43:10 turn off the space 01:43:11 and horrible 01:43:12 you;re awful 01:43:15 die :( 01:43:27 maybe it'd look better if you used monospac font 01:43:42 ive used monospaced font on irc you shit!!!!!!!!! :'( 01:43:45 it was still hideous even then! 01:43:47 What awk scripts do you mean? 01:43:47 its always been hideous 01:43:48 youre hideous! 01:44:21 monqy: i can;t believe youre so wrong 01:44:28 youre wronger 01:44:37 no 01:44:39 no 01:44:39 you 01:44:40 are wrong 01:44:43 youre wrongest 01:44:43 you are so wrong about this 01:44:47 no 01:44:48 listen 01:44:49 you don't understand 01:44:52 how wrong you are 01:44:53 turn it off 01:44:56 now 01:44:56 you havent given me one good reason !!!!! 01:44:58 yes i have 01:45:01 ive given you like three 01:45:05 actually four 01:45:06 the inconsistency 01:45:07 no 01:45:09 they all suck 01:45:12 wrt. not aligning the >s but aligning the @s and non-@s 01:45:16 it's consistent with @ and + etc 01:45:18 theres no justifiable reason to "align" 01:45:21 which is what matters to me 01:45:24 when there's no alignment of the messages itself 01:45:25 it's inconsistent 01:45:26 you're terrible 01:45:28 turn it off now 01:45:33 no!!! 01:45:35 yes 01:45:45 olsner: you have good opinions right 01:45:51 olsner: "< nick> blah" is an abomination right 01:46:56 monqy: stop 01:47:05 every message you receive with that setting is a personal affront against me 01:47:24 18:46:56 < elliott> monqy: stop 01:47:28 as u can see: i have not stoped 01:50:15 http://heh.fi/tmp/mirc.png 01:50:31 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:51:02 perhaps it also looks better on my client than eliots because the < and > are all dark grey and so is the timestamp 01:51:23 -!- elliott has joined. 02:08:30 h 02:08:33 ---- 02:08:33 19:08:30 h 02:08:36 19:08:33 19:08:30 h 02:08:38 19:08:36 19:08:33 19:08:30 h 02:08:45 noooooooo 02:08:53 everything looks weird 02:09:02 ma050833 monqy 19:08:30 h 02:09:07 this will take some "getting used to" 02:09:22 Don’t succumb to eliot’s whims! 02:09:53 he finally got me with `addquote 02:10:42 vision of a terrifying world: 02:10:44 -!- david_werecat has joined. 02:10:48 `run sed -i 's/ No output. 02:10:54 `quote 02:10:54 `quote 02:10:55 `quote 02:10:56 `quote 02:10:58 `quote 02:11:07 390) < oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for < oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good 02:11:10 oh no what if you messed up something importante 02:11:12 428) < ais523> the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s 02:11:26 621) < fizzie> Spacegoat is the network-operations-optimized-for-latency-of-minutes-or-hours-due-to-light-speed-limits variant of scapegoat, to be used when you need to check out some code from the Mars colony. < fizzie> (I'm pretty sure we'll have established a Mars colony by the time scapegoat rolls out.) 02:11:26 486) < pikhq> I actually had a Neopets account. I later gained a second digit in my age. 02:11:26 147) < fungot> pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" 02:11:37 `revert 02:11:40 Done. 02:11:41 monqy: "messing fixed" 02:11:56 imo 428 or 390 02:12:29 `delquote 428 02:12:33 ​*poof* the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s 02:12:38 @tell ais523 sorry get out of the ay bug im writing an important message 02:12:38 Consider it noted. 02:12:42 ok im actually starting to be bothered by the lack of spaces after @tell ais523 sorry 02:12:46 Consider it noted. 02:12:50 i need to fix this in some way 02:13:01 (help) 02:13:08 monqy: I hate spaces after monqy: replace the <>s with {}s "it'll burn in a different way" 02:13:27 monqy: imo just set them to background colour 02:13:27 "< nick>"s are the devil. 02:13:30 who needs to see the <>s 02:13:30 maybe i'll just use nospaces until i get used to it 02:13:43 shachaf: do you hate coloured nicks too 02:13:44 elliott: they're almost the background colour 02:13:48 like where the nicks are coloured based on their text 02:13:50 that upsets me 02:13:56 i dont mind if other people use it 02:13:57 elliott: Are you calling me an IRC racist. :-( 02:13:59 but it upsets me 02:14:36 I can't be racist, I use so much Unicode! 02:14:55 Some of it even non-ASCII Unicode. 02:15:03 is any of it big endian 02:15:53 My IRC client doesn't support that. :-( 02:16:23 (Really, something in the IRC->me translation is messing up non-BMP Unicode characters.) 02:17:32 If you don't like that then change it 02:18:43 zzo38: Are you racist too? 02:19:15 I try not to be, but since I use language it makes me a little bit racist anyways 02:19:36 ^style 02:19:36 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 02:19:39 ^style discworld 02:19:39 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 02:19:55 fungot < sourbot_ :'( 02:19:56 shachaf: ' ah?' said nanny. " it's you, son. you're too skinny. i've seen these little stones around, too. 02:20:46 ^style irc 02:20:47 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 02:20:49 fungot 02:20:50 shachaf: that's a good question for the plt mailing list. there the only ones that that could be a fnord to run the 02:22:54 fungot 02:22:55 shachaf: this is all related to sigsegv?) if you didn't operate on text representations and particular character sets? 02:22:58 fungot 02:22:59 shachaf: so i was wondering why all my applications had become slow on old computers that use dimms? my taskbar just moved to our nation's grand capital, and the 02:23:18 my taskbar just moved to our nation's grand capital, and the 02:24:22 kmc: You would enjoy #haskell currently. 02:24:25 19:21 < lambdabot> Einskell says: Make everything as monad as possible, but not monadder. 02:24:29 19:23 < JoeyA> Monad monad monad monad monad monad. 02:24:31 And such. 02:25:49 -_- 02:26:13 i bet some of these IOCCC entries would be more comprehensible after a run through a C compiler and decompiler 02:26:36 i bet this would be a lot more useful than the standard source-level prettifiers 02:26:43 Which decompilers suck the least? 02:26:53 The standard source-level prettifier probably wouldn't be *that* bad. 02:27:15 shachaf: indent(1) makes a total hash of most of them 02:27:26 the guidelines basically say that if indent makes your code look ok, don't bother submitting 02:27:48 I was thinking of something smarter than indent(1). 02:27:56 kmc: have you seen Gregor's? 02:27:58 also, try astyle, perhaps 02:28:11 maybe i should look at LLVM output from clang 02:28:11 E.g. renaming variables, expanding #defines 02:28:16 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:28:26 shachaf: yeah, that usually doesn't help too much either 02:28:33 indent just chokes on a lot of perfectly ok code IME 02:28:56 you really want stuff like dead code elimination and reordering big chains of , and ?: operators into saner sequential/conditional control flow 02:29:03 which is why I think a pass through a proper compiler might help 02:29:08 IME is Finnish for SUCK. 02:29:21 Fair enough. 02:29:34 Perhaps just looking at the disassembled output would be enough. 02:29:53 the one i'm looking at now (2001/herrmann2) in particular has a *ton* of dead code 02:30:09 more specifically, side-effect-free expressions to the left of , 02:30:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:26 well, it also depends on whether you just want to understand how the program works, or also how it's obfuscated 02:30:49 yeah i saw gregor's entry 02:30:51 good stuff 02:30:56 i didn't dig into it yet 02:31:45 I like how in JavaScript (1,foo) can be a different value from (foo). 02:31:49 really? 02:32:04 No. I don't *really* like it. 02:32:13 :D 02:32:15 shachaf++ 02:32:38 I'm so cool I saw Gregor's entry BEFORE IT WAS SUBMITTED. 02:32:53 kmc: http://perfectionkills.com/global-eval-what-are-the-options/ 02:35:13 Oh, this explains a JS annoyance of mine, actually. 02:35:26 You can't say var foo = console.log. 02:35:45 Previously I was just using var foo = function(x) { console.log(x); } 02:35:57 But I guess you can var foo = console.log.bind(console). 02:35:59 ...Or something. 02:36:35 yes, that's correct 02:36:39 the bind one, that is 02:36:45 Right. 02:37:14 It's not so much "this explains" as "I just thought about what could actually be causing it and came to this conclusion". 02:38:27 SO question: "Can Haskell pretend to be a database, and if so, how?" 02:39:09 What do you mean by that? 02:39:31 ln -s /usr/bin/ghc /usr/bin/mysql 02:39:49 monqy: hmm, what's that "two planes at once" message 02:39:59 phase shift 02:40:04 it's free evasion 02:40:05 i forgot i had it 02:40:09 "Can Haskell pretend to be a database" This question does not seem to even make sense????? 02:40:22 zzo38: indeed 02:40:58 OK, Famicompo Mini 8 is now finished and available for download. 02:41:13 Free evasion a = a | evasion (free evasion a) 02:41:30 i think you mean Free 02:41:43 My language is case insensitive. 02:42:39 Did you know Noël Coward was born in the 19th century? 02:42:59 @quote 02:42:59 synx says: webdev is like doing one of those stupid little kids toys where you fit the circle block into the circle hole 02:43:12 I don't get it. 02:43:46 fare evasion? 02:44:41 shachaf: Did you know that different kinds of citrus tree can be easily grafted onto each other? 02:44:49 The problem with fare evasion is that it's unfare. 02:44:56 you can have a single tree which grows oranges on some branches, lemons on others, limes on others 02:45:16 kmc: Yes! Well, I knew it about some specific cases, at least. 02:45:18 this is industrially important too 02:45:53 cause you can graft a branch which grows the kind of fruit you want onto a tree that's of a variety that's better at being a tree 02:46:28 Isn't this how most oranges are grown, or something? 02:46:39 i've heard as much 02:46:58 Seedless oranges, I suppose. 02:47:09 Do you like the GenRandom I have written for the random generators or is there a better way? 02:48:20 I wish humans could be grafted. 02:48:33 Onto trees or onto humans? 02:48:34 at least they can be grifted 02:48:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:48:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:48:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:49:19 zzo38: Ontohu mans. 02:49:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:56:28 Famicompo mini vol.8 has some multi-track files, unlike the others. 02:56:58 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:03:02 Ugh, Linux now uses the term "x32". 03:03:14 noooo 03:03:17 Admittedly it uses it for something different from "32-bit x86". 03:03:19 oh 03:03:20 that's X32 03:03:25 totally different 03:03:33 Oh. 03:03:44 capital x 03:03:45 not abominable 03:03:47 Remember the bit about my language being case-insensitive? 03:04:38 reMEMBeR thE bIT aBoUt my LanGuAgE bEINg casE-iNseNSitIVe? 03:04:55 ^rainbow reMEmbEr THE BIT abOut mY LAngUAGe being caSE-InSeNsItive? 03:04:55 reMEmbEr THE BIT abOut mY LAngUAGe being caSE-InSeNsItive? 03:08:13 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI 03:09:45 yeah x32 ABI is in Linux 3.4 03:10:57 32-bit pointers in native x86-64 long mode 03:11:59 monqy: i'm arguing this badly :( 03:12:13 elliott: arguing what :( 03:12:57 edwardk is not on, a few days ago I was asking about fmap lower . lower . duplicate = duplicate . lower and said it doesn't work for (Density []) but actually [] is not even a comonad, it lacks extract and doesn't follow the law duplicate . duplicate = fmap duplicate . duplicate 03:13:53 That depends on your definition of duplicate! 03:14:30 According to http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/category-extras/0.53.5/doc/html/Control-Comonad-Density.html , the argument to Density just needs to be a functor. 03:14:36 But the fmap lower . lower . duplicate = duplicate . lower does seem to work with actually comonads and seems to be the law for homomorphism 03:15:29 shachaf: Actually the argument to Density can be anything; it does not even have to be a functor. But Density is also a comonad transformer, and Codensity is also a monad transformer even though the argument to Codensity can also be anything. 03:17:10 monqy: why did you argue for the bad thing :( 03:17:19 huh? 03:17:24 multiple at a time 03:17:50 the extend to which i argued for it is saying one at a time would be ridiculous 03:17:56 just imagine how ridiculous it would be 03:17:57 least common multiple at a time 03:18:06 monqy: it wouldn't! 03:18:11 it would 03:18:17 cf v5 03:18:24 it would be the most ridiculousest 03:19:00 shachaf: How do you mean, depends on your definition of duplicate? What are you saying depends on that? Only certain definitions are correct to follow the comonad laws (which are just dual to the monad laws) 03:20:01 zzo38: According to you, none of them follow the comonad laws. :-) 03:20:14 But you didn't give a definition of duplicate, so how can you say that it doesn't follow the law? 03:20:40 anyway the proper way to handle it is not having upstairs. i'm gone for a while so have fun w/ yr argument "ha ha" 03:21:52 shachaf: None of what follow the comonad laws? duplicate . duplicate = fmap duplicate . duplicate is mentioned in the documentation 03:22:25 You said "[] is not even a comonad, it lacks extract and doesn't follow the law duplicate . duplicate = fmap duplicate . duplicate" 03:22:28 What's duplicate? 03:22:39 duplicate is the dual to join 03:23:02 Monad have return and join, comonad have extract dual to return and duplicate dual to join 03:23:02 zzo38: shachaf is asking what definition of duplicate you are using for []. 03:23:19 I am using the one that comes with it. 03:23:37 You just said [] isn't a comonad. 03:23:42 But since there is no extract for [] it is not a comonad anyways so it doesn't count 03:23:43 Where does duplicate come from? 03:23:43 zzo38: what one 03:23:52 oh wait 03:23:56 shachaf: duplicate _is_ defined for [] in the comonad package 03:23:59 Extend is a different class 03:24:05 It is? 03:24:07 Oh. 03:24:11 That's silly. 03:26:04 The law duplicate . duplicate = fmap duplicate . duplicate is mentioned for Comonad, not Extend, but ComonadTrans class method lower is with something having Extend class, not Comonad. 03:26:45 cowmonad 03:32:22 But is fmap lower . lower . duplicate = duplicate . lower supposed to be the law for homomorphism? 03:35:28 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:21:31 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:42:26 I have five days to figure out part of the strategy for the situation in Dungeons&Dragons game, and I have some ideas. I may use Correspond spell to call the chancellor, but he will probably be able to recognize me and I do not know what things to say. I try to lead him into a trap. In case he comes and then tries to hide, I have already considered that and know what to do about that. 04:44:54 I may need one or two scrolls of Locate Creature (I already have Locate Object). 05:25:29 "elliott it was still hideous even then!" evil 05:25:39 oklofok: waht 05:27:30 i _thought_ you said that you have used monospaced font on irc and it was still hideous 05:27:39 but i guess that would've been too silly to be true 05:28:46 -!- ellisonch has joined. 05:28:52 it was < foo> that was hideous 05:30:22 -!- ellisonch has quit (Client Quit). 05:44:26 Then don't use < foo> if you dislike it 05:45:23 the problem is other people using it 05:46:08 What is < foo>? 05:46:45 An esoteric programming language, of course. 05:47:28 Oh, < foo> as in how some client shows nicks on IRC? 05:47:30 I assume? 05:47:32 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:34 And that space is annoying? 05:48:04 yes 05:48:19 http://esolangs.org/wiki/%3C%20foo%3E 05:49:26 Which client? 05:49:33 shachaf, too bad that link doesn't work 05:49:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Foo exists 05:50:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Foo%20exists 05:52:28 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:56:12 i use < nick> but i try to delete the space when copypasta into channels 05:57:28 gross 05:57:35 either keep the space or don't use < nick>!!! 05:57:46 My IRC client shows < nick>. 05:57:54 I usually delete it when I copy into a channel. 05:57:55 shachaf: is it irssi 05:57:58 you can fix that 05:58:00 ask monqy! 05:58:03 hi monqy 05:58:06 how do i fix that 05:58:15 ask elliott 05:58:22 elliott: help 05:58:30 oh it's 05:58:31 19:08:23 show_nickmode_empty = OFF 05:58:36 that must be it 05:58:50 When I copy to a channel I will only quote the part which is necessary to quote 05:59:02 Someone say something! 05:59:06 Oh, I just did. 05:59:17 Hmm. 05:59:19 hm 05:59:21 h 05:59:23 05:59:23 What if someone becomes an op? 05:59:28 then ther'es a @ 05:59:33 Will their lines stop a-lining? 05:59:35 We are worms we're the best and we've come to win the war 05:59:36 yes 05:59:40 no mor a-lining 05:59:41 monqy: That's the devil. :-( 05:59:51 :-( 05:59:55 text doesnt really align anyway 06:00:02 if you dont make it align 06:00:02 I'd rather have a space before the < 06:00:04 shachaf: turn off the @ display then 06:00:06 To keep it consistent. 06:00:08 it's "stupid", say experts 06:00:12 shachaf, clearly you should join #shachaf and see 06:00:18 elliott: That's the devil too. :-( 06:00:32 Sgeo: I expect you just joined that channel so that I won't be an op in it? 06:00:40 What do you know! 06:00:55 I opped you before you left... 06:01:32 BRB 06:02:02 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:02:22 How many different alignments of IRC messages are there? 06:02:27 back 06:02:34 shachaf, I left #shachaf 06:02:43 Sgeo: So did I! 06:03:02 -!- augur has joined. 06:03:05 I joined after you joined and left before you left. 06:03:23 It's like an shachaf Sgeo #shachaf sandwich! 06:05:35 * Sgeo can't wait to eat food today 06:05:36 >.> 06:05:41 <.< 06:06:21 ∧.∧ 06:06:37 ∨.∨ 06:07:07 https://twitpic.com/show/large/9nild1 -- guess God really does use lisp 06:07:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:07:21 ⊂.⊂.⊂.⊂ombo breaker 06:07:23 Hello! 06:07:26 lambdabot: :-( 06:15:30 "elliott it was < foo> that was hideous" ohh 06:16:26 _why_ is the space there in some clients? 06:16:43 cause if you're an op it shows as <@foo> 06:16:45 oklofok: because @ goes there 06:16:46 if they're an op 06:16:47 it's stupid 06:16:48 stuuuupid 06:16:50 oklofok: To make it align with "<+foo>" and "<@foo>", I assume. 06:16:56 elliott, shachaf: beaten 06:17:02 :'( 06:17:04 kmc: :'( 06:17:05 creys 06:17:05 GRR 06:17:09 8D 06:17:12 ah yes, come to think of it, i have realized that multiple times. 06:17:12 shachaf: beaten 06:17:33 it's the status slot, where the status symbol goes, and empty status slot is a space 06:17:39 "more viewpoints" 06:17:43 "thanks monqy" 06:17:44 monqy++ 06:17:59 "i'm setting show_nickmode_empty back to ON now" 06:18:03 oklofok: it's for @ and + 06:20:58 shachaf: no you're terrible 06:21:36 elliott: Don't worry "i didn't really do it" 06:21:42 thanks 06:21:44 I was lying. Which I guess makes me terrible. :-( 06:21:49 :-( 06:21:50 Except it was in quotation marks. 06:22:07 ^rainbow quotation marks 06:22:07 quotation marks 06:22:12 That's a depressing rainbow. 06:22:20 ()ing with portals. Now you're think() 06:22:26 Why does it have to align? 06:22:34 What happens if you're both 06:23:13 Both what? 06:23:17 +ov 06:23:25 only @ displays 06:24:06 elliott doesn't like < nick> because it symbolizes the non-existence of @ 06:24:43 sorry bout that 06:25:27 oh i read that wrong 06:27:05 wiki has some info on @ 06:27:14 The ^rainbow rainbow is slightly depressing partially because it doesn't go up to eleven, let alone 15; it only goes up to 9. 06:27:23 "The fact that there is no single word in English for the symbol has prompted some writers to use the French arobase[4] or Spanish arroba or to coin new words such as apserand and ampersat - but none of these has achieved wide currency. 06:27:38 Someone could fix it to use the same color ordering as 06:27:40 ^rainbow2 06:27:40 ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████ ...too much output! 06:28:13 aspergand 06:28:32 Does = secretly mean ⊆? 06:29:53 i hope one day @ has it's own wikipedia page 06:30:24 Mathematicians overload way too much. 06:30:34 if = means ⊆, does (+) mean liftM2 (+)? 06:31:02 (In Set.) 06:32:30 I too hope one day @ has it's own wikipedia page 06:33:07 SPOILERS: IT ALREADY DOES 06:33:08 [[@]] 06:33:16 hi @ 06:33:18 hat 06:34:01 @-hat: ̂@ 06:34:01 I know nothing about @. 06:34:14 thambdabot 06:34:33 ^show rainbo2 06:34:34 @̂ 06:34:34 Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do ft id pl rc v wn 06:34:34 ^show rainbow2 06:34:35 ((0)(15)(14)(1)(2)(12)(11)(10)(3)(9)(8)(7)(5)(4)(13)(6))(~^:()SSa~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a*~(█)S:^):^ 06:37:49 shachaf: i think that it's a good thing when you don't have to have much information to use a piece of a language 06:40:13 in the case of a function or procedure i think it's nice when a summary is good enough 06:41:21 this is probably not actually relevant 06:42:43 It would be the funniest if "/nick @foo" would give you ops on every channel you're on. (And double-ops where you already had some.) 06:43:10 fizzie: needs a backspace before the @ 06:43:12 to overwrite the space 06:43:50 it would also be funny if "/nick @foo" was a backdoor password into most login screens 06:44:43 but i should stop re-peddling jokes 06:47:07 Just for IRC makes more sense 06:47:29 Idiopathic autoreferent 06:47:45 ^^message I got when I tried to /nick to @Sgeo 06:51:31 "Erroneous Nickname", says the server. 06:52:19 Boringly. 06:55:18 * Sgeo did it on a different server 06:55:19 >.> 06:55:58 Sergeant Eo 06:56:34 <.< 06:58:20 v.v 06:59:01 v∨ 07:01:10 v 07:07:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Hard Work!). 07:56:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:56:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:21:28 -!- cswords_ has joined. 08:23:39 -!- cswords has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:33:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2AeSsOcJv4 This... Should not work. 08:34:29 (Daft Punk, "Around the World", orchestral. Arrangement by Walt Ribeiro) 08:38:08 this is going to be one of those shitty basically-just-a-midi-version-run-through-a-vst things isn't it 08:38:13 yes it is 08:38:37 ok its not as bad as i was expecting 08:39:10 Yeah, I was expecting utter ear-rape. 08:39:16 Why I clicked I don't know. 08:39:32 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:39:43 Clearly it killed elliott. 08:58:11 Vorpal doesn't play BZFlag, does he? 08:58:20 There was someone, with the name... AnSomething 08:58:31 I forgot what the something was, but I was thinking Vorpal 08:58:56 And someone else, who apparently has played BZFlag for a very long time, claimed that that person used cheats. (Claimed this after that person was offline) 08:59:41 anmaster? 08:59:53 ^quote not markov 08:59:58 `quote not markov 09:00:02 wrong symbol 09:00:07 626) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 09:01:41 scary 09:02:02 monqy, right, AnMaster is Vorpal, but I don't remember if the name I saw in BZFlag was AnMaster or something else 09:02:23 And if it was AnMaster, it could be a coincidence 09:03:03 There can't be that many people playing BZFlag though. 09:03:09 ... Or caring enough to cheat for that matter. 09:13:59 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:36:02 Sgeo, I don't play BZFlag 09:36:09 Ah, ok 09:36:14 I know it is a game, that is all 09:36:19 I don't even remember what type of game 09:36:37 -!- elliott has joined. 09:36:39 holy shit 09:37:03 what happened? 09:37:05 look at what i get when loading http://thepiratebay.se/: 09:37:07 http://ompldr.org/vZHU2bg 09:40:01 elliott, government's told all the ISP's to block Pirate Bay 09:40:07 Try switching DNS 09:40:55 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17894176 09:44:03 Or https://tpb.pirateparty.org.uk/ 09:44:36 elliott: Did you choose "yes" or "no"? 09:46:04 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 09:46:16 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:48:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:38:22 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:38:45 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:46:41 I love how both yes and no are ambiguous answers to that question 10:47:12 So's "elephant" 10:53:54 "Elephant" isn't ambiguous, just irrelephant. 11:14:06 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:14:34 -!- nortti has joined. 11:16:04 oliphuant 11:16:45 Was going to say not a typo, but the source I took that name from has a persistent typo 11:16:55 http://www.nomic.net/deadgames/fourplay/pieces/pieces.10s.html 11:17:00 Search for oliphuant 11:17:06 Then click the link to Oliphuant 11:23:51 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:24:16 -!- nortti has joined. 11:40:42 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:41:03 -!- nortti has joined. 11:47:10 el 11:47:17 Neither elliott nor PH are here 11:47:30 That does happen occasionalyl 11:47:34 I am here 11:47:36 @tell elliott Tube Trap changed around, so now water rises at Sudden Death 11:47:36 Consider it noted. 11:47:46 @tell Phantom_Hoover Tube Trap changed around, so now water rises at Sudden Death 11:47:46 Consider it noted. 11:48:05 Aww, now I want to play GIRP 11:49:02 GIRP? 11:50:08 http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html 12:48:05 http://www1.reocities.com/SiliconValley/drive/2069/SimCity/SC3KNewsTicker.html 13:02:35 -!- Gregor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:24:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:24:55 @messages? 13:24:55 Sorry, no messages today. 13:25:22 Phantom__Hoover, you have excessive underscores 13:26:00 I'm Phantom_Hoover's evil twin. 13:26:06 Aaaah! 13:26:31 You... don't seem that evil 13:26:51 And in a way, isn't that the most evil thing of all? 13:27:02 No 13:27:05 Not really 13:28:40 Phantom__Hoover, you'd have messages if you had one underscore 13:28:51 @messages Phantom_Hoover 13:28:51 You don't have any new messages. 13:28:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 13:28:54 Worth a shot 13:28:55 @messages? 13:28:55 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 13:29:22 sorry i dont know what tube trap is 13:29:49 Scheme for Worms: Armageddon 13:29:56 I played it with either you or elliott, I forgot which 13:34:29 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:37:08 `welcome david_werecat 13:37:12 david_werecat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:00:06 -!- Gregor has joined. 14:02:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:12:12 where's oerjan :( 14:13:09 we found a topological space which is countable and not first-countable, and the 5 (out of 143) spaces in counterexamples in topology which are countable but not first-countable share almost none of its properties 14:13:23 (we found it by accident, it was supposed to be a really nice space :() 14:17:14 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:20:35 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:30:29 -!- aloril has joined. 14:38:26 i have always classified worms and lemmings as pixel terraforming games, but not by that name 14:38:44 theres very few such games notable in that style i think 14:46:59 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 14:52:46 -!- itidus20 has joined. 14:55:18 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:06:39 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:06:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:19:24 -!- azaq23 has joined. 15:29:48 -!- derdon has joined. 15:48:15 "Palindromes are rasemordnilap!" 15:59:01 the joke is that's a palindrome 16:00:13 -!- Zetro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:00:32 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 16:00:41 -!- Zetro has joined. 16:00:50 And yet NOÖNE has acknowledged my BRILLIANT joke in the /topic :( 16:02:43 it's not /that/ brilliant 16:02:43 ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:03:14 @ask elliott ? 16:03:14 Consider it noted. 16:05:33 ais523: :'( 16:07:28 Gregor: what is the brilliant joke? 16:08:07 ... the one in the /topic. 16:17:14 -!- itidus22 has joined. 16:21:01 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:23:35 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:23:46 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 16:30:37 -!- andkerosine has joined. 16:31:52 Does anybody know off the top of their head if I've accidentally made a clone? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Headsecks 16:33:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:34:31 andkerosine: You want the category "Brainfuck derivatives", not "Brainfuck equivalents" 16:35:03 Or maybe both, but the latter is barely-used and probably shouldn't exist (elliott?) 16:36:26 It doesn't deviate from Brainfuck in any meaningful way... 16:36:28 andkerosine: You mention ignoring values 8 or 9 modulo 8, but those are respectively 0 and 1 modulo 8... 16:36:40 0 % 8 == 0 16:36:46 8 % 8 == 0 16:37:09 I'm sure you've misinterpreted. 16:38:00 I'm sure that 8 % 8 == 0. Maybe I have misinterpreted the article, though. 16:38:50 Well, yes, that's obviously what I meant. I wasn't questioning your ability to do arithmetic 16:39:17 andkerosine: Hm hm hm, I misunderstood slightly, you're right. Still, probably everything in the latter should additionally be in the former. 16:39:36 Fair enough. 16:39:59 "each character of the source code is interpreted as its ordinal value modulo 8" 16:40:00 But I don't know what I'm talking about, trust elliott's opinion if he chooses to appear. 16:40:06 "characters for which a value of 8 or 9 is produced" 16:40:23 The "produced" bit in the latter pretty clearly refers to the former, I'd say. 16:41:18 Yes, and I don't see how you get anything other than the range [0,7] when you take positive integers modulo 8. 16:41:27 Precisely! 16:42:03 So the statement is meaningless and just there to confuse? 16:42:05 Or... heh, whoops. I suppose it could be worded a bit better. My apologies for hastiness. 16:42:30 Any characters which are congruent to 8 modulo 8 are also congruent to 0 modulo 8, so they'll map to 0 when you take the remainder. 16:45:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:46:03 Which... will work as intended, I believe. 16:47:01 At least, nothing suspect showed up during preliminary testing, but that could be a result of running them all through the converter. 16:47:14 > ord ' ' `mod` 8 16:47:15 0 16:47:19 Space is plus. 16:47:55 That doesn't match with what I understand "silently ignored" to mean. 16:48:08 Note that the line has been removed. 16:49:03 What line? 16:49:10 Yeah, never mind. 16:49:32 Went to change it, saw I wasn't logged in, am login-banned, so switching browsers to change it now. 16:49:39 The line about silently ignoring, obviously. 16:50:11 Just asked to confirm since that sentence obviously wasn't removed. :-P 16:50:21 andkerosine: what were you login-banned from? 16:51:12 I reckon I need more coffee. Registered, forgot my password, tried to login five or six times, apparently too quickly. : / 16:51:34 on Esolang? 16:51:51 I thought it just put up a CAPTCHA when you did that, but maybe it's misconfigured 16:52:05 you probably don't need more coffee really 16:54:47 ais523: Well, it does display a captcha, but answering it correctly seems to serve no function. 16:54:57 huh 16:54:59 itidus21: How do you mean? : ) 16:55:31 andkerosine: it may have been your coffee in the first place which made you re-login so much 16:55:50 but then you may be right... i forget what programming feels like 16:56:19 ahh you weren't talking about programming -- I reckon I need more coffee. 16:56:33 Well, this is certainly a strange place for you to have wound up. ; ) 16:56:47 andkerosine: I'm not convinced that switching browsers will work, anyway 16:57:01 that sort of auto-ban, unfortunately I can't override; rebooting your router might help if you have a dynamic IP 16:57:19 One does not simply qwop into #esoteric 16:58:24 ais523: For what it's worth, switching browsers worked... 16:58:30 huh, hmm 16:58:42 Double indecision. 17:05:36 -!- coppro has joined. 17:06:01 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:12:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:17:46 -!- itidus20 has joined. 17:23:41 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:25:44 -!- andkerosine has left. 17:39:28 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:40:02 -!- nortti has joined. 17:50:13 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:52:59 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:53:10 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:54:57 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:00:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:01:52 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:03:25 wtf is the topic about? 18:04:31 nortti_: ask Gregor, it's some kind of joke apparently 18:04:43 ok 18:05:06 Gregor: wtf is the topic about? 18:05:10 presumably it's a joke about austria and australia 18:08:43 is there a limut how many lines can you send per minute before you get kicked out for flooding on freenode? 18:08:51 *limit 18:10:00 You all (except for kmc) suck at jokes. 18:12:38 well I didn't know that austria was named that in english and I couldn't figure out how someone could mistake switzerland could be confused with australia 18:12:59 -could mistake 18:14:27 I think the joke is missing some alps in australia 18:14:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:16:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 18:17:35 (P.S. I'd just like to point out that I got the joke from the start) 18:19:12 I got it immediately, but it isn't actually funny 18:19:30 is there a limut how many lines can you send per minute before you get kicked out for flooding on freenode? <-- yes, also a limit to how fast you send lines before ops get annoyed and kick you 18:19:42 ais523: exactly 18:19:47 nortti_: what's austria called in your native language? 18:19:58 itävalta 18:20:09 wow 18:20:25 eastrule is a crude literal translation 18:22:04 I managed to confuse austria and switzerland for a while though, got to thinking that the swedish for austria was a lot weirder than it is 18:22:34 -!- augur has joined. 18:22:37 nortti_: hmm, not that far from the German name "Österreich" 18:23:21 I know. I expected english to have something similar 18:23:50 austria probably means east kingdom in french or latin or whatever language that is 18:24:13 "aust" is quite close to "east" 18:24:40 could be a mangled form of österreich 18:25:30 ah: The name "Austria" is a Latinization of Österreich, which was first recorded in the 12th century. 18:25:33 This has led to much confusion as German Ost is "east", but Latin auster is "south". 18:29:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:31:49 -!- zos has joined. 18:32:04 Ugh. Rube Goldberg would be proud of my shellscripts 18:33:17 -!- augur has joined. 18:36:15 -!- zos has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:45:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:51:09 -!- Gregor has set topic: This just in: #esoteric has no sense of humor | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 18:54:55 Hello 18:55:13 That's funny 19:00:30 has anyone here used TWENEX (also known as TOPS-20)? 19:08:08 if not you should. sdf offers free shell account§ at twenex.org 19:20:38 -!- david_werecat has joined. 19:21:01 *www.twenex.org 19:28:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:28:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:30:09 I don't trust any domain that doesn't resolve without www. ... 19:30:17 Even extra-www.org resolves. 19:31:18 Gregor: wow, not only does www.org resolve, so does org. 19:31:55 oh, that's probably Firefox automatically adding the www 19:32:05 doesn't work in dig or w3m 19:32:28 -!- elliott has joined. 19:32:33 www.org is just a normal TLD, there's nothing interesting in the fact that it resolves *shrugs* 19:32:37 chrome appears to resolve http://org/ to about:blank 19:32:48 Erm 19:32:49 *SLD 19:32:49 Lame. 19:32:52 and fails on other TLDs 19:33:14 Hello, elliott 19:33:16 Gregor: well, org. resolving /would/ be interesting, but it doesn't :( 19:33:22 hi Taneb 19:33:22 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 19:33:25 * ais523 wonders why people habitually omit the trailing dot on domain names 19:33:31 ais523: http://ai./ 19:33:32 ais523: Neener neener. 19:33:38 elliott: I know 19:33:50 ais523: because that is the convention 19:33:53 but org. is much more major, and therefore having an A record would be more surprising 19:34:06 20:33 ais523 asked 3h 30m 21s ago: ? 19:34:07 ais523: hi 19:34:08 also how do you participate in this conversation? I thought you filtered URLs 19:34:21 ais523: and because domain names are no more ambiguous without the trailing dot 19:34:34 I stopped filtering URLs ages ago 19:34:36 hi elliott 19:34:46 just didn't tell people in the hope they'd stop pinging me with them 19:35:07 you did tell people 19:35:12 oh, just didn't tell everyone 19:35:14 I probably told elliott 19:35:49 you told the channel, at least 19:37:00 (diff | hist) . . N Headsecks‎; 16:24 . . (+2,800)‎ . . ‎Andkerosine (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Headsecks is born!) 19:37:05 noooo 19:37:12 elliott: he came here and asked if it had been done before 19:37:20 what, a brainfuck derivative? 19:37:25 that particular BF derivative 19:37:35 that's showing a surprising amount of genre knowledge :) 19:37:43 unfortunately, there are too many BF derivatives for one to ever repeat 19:37:47 *possible BF 19:38:08 ais523: we should put up an editnotice with a box saying "Is your language a brainfuck derivative? Please consider something more creative." 19:38:14 for new pages 19:38:19 haha 19:38:25 sadly, it should come up before people even come to the site 19:38:34 maybe we should buy ads 19:38:38 because normally they design the language first, /then/ come here to document it 19:38:39 on the web, billboards, etc. 19:38:48 "STOP MAKING BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVES" 19:39:44 09:44:36: elliott: Did you choose "yes" or "no"? 19:39:46 fizzie: I chose "no". 19:39:52 CAN'T TAME ME 19:39:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:16 ais523: Did you know your ISP DNS is probably censored now? :( 19:40:31 DNS? I thought it was using CleanFeed 19:40:33 (and yes) 19:40:40 09:37:05: look at what i get when loading http://thepiratebay.se/: 19:40:40 09:37:07: http://ompldr.org/vZHU2bg 19:40:55 at least, IIRC the court order was "and don't just change the DNS, block it properly", but in more legal language 19:41:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:41:19 there are almost certainly hundreds of ways round it, ofc 19:41:39 well, Taneb said 19:41:40 09:40:01: elliott, government's told all the ISP's to block Pirate Bay 19:41:40 09:40:07: Try switching DNS 19:41:51 09:44:03: Or https://tpb.pirateparty.org.uk/ 19:41:55 must just be DNS, then, since that link works 19:42:18 does it resolve to the same IP, I wonder? 19:42:30 it resolves to the pirate bay 19:43:07 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:31 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 19:43:41 * ais523 feels vindictive at Facebook's share price 19:43:48 16:34:31: andkerosine: You want the category "Brainfuck derivatives", not "Brainfuck equivalents" 19:43:48 16:35:03: Or maybe both, but the latter is barely-used and probably shouldn't exist (elliott?) 19:43:53 Gregor: The latter is for things like Ook!. 19:43:58 nice to see the shares are doing badly; it's pretty rare for a company's share price to fall from the IPO 19:44:06 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Client Quit). 19:44:21 well actually twenex.org resolves but it is a different machine (PDP-10) 19:44:24 Gregor: BF equivalents is for things where all the commands map 1:1 to BF's, with nothing added or removed 19:44:34 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:46:07 oh well, I want to switch to another ISP anyway 19:46:36 elliott, TalkTalk haven't blocked it yet 19:46:37 16:36:26: It doesn't deviate from Brainfuck in any meaningful way... 19:46:43 ais523: this is a shocking level of self-awareness 19:46:55 yes, that's what I was commenting on 19:46:57 ais523: yeah, they deserved it 19:46:58 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:47:37 I wish I could buy GOOG now :( 19:47:42 16:54:47: ais523: Well, it does display a captcha, but answering it correctly seems to serve no function. 19:47:52 * ais523 wonders if andkerosine already got the brick ready 19:47:55 coppro: so you could have stocks in the /other/ crappy social network? 19:48:05 ais523: hmm, maybe our CAPTCHA is too hard 19:48:16 elliott: I'm wondering if he got it right or wrong 19:48:18 elliott: no, because they got hammered due to FB, and are bouncing back up. 19:48:21 16:57:01: that sort of auto-ban, unfortunately I can't override; rebooting your router might help if you have a dynamic IP 19:48:28 "serving no function" I bet means "displays another CAPTCHA" 19:48:31 I can't buy since it would be insider trading, even though the impulse to buy isn't based on insider information. 19:48:33 which is how it handles invalid entries 19:48:41 (ConfirmEdit's UI is terrible...) 19:48:47 coppro: you work for a social network? 19:48:48 coppro: It was a: joke. 19:48:57 ais523: he works for Google 19:49:02 aha 19:49:13 spam I just got: 19:49:36 From: "Antelmo Alvarado García" (with the quotes) 19:49:37 Subject: Re 19:49:38 19:49:41 loan offer,reply back for more info. 19:49:44 (that's it) 19:50:50 18:17:35: (P.S. I'd just like to point out that I got the joke from the start) 19:50:51 i also 19:50:56 18:19:12: I got it immediately, but it isn't actually funny 19:50:57 this 19:51:16 18:22:37: nortti_: hmm, not that far from the German name "Österreich" 19:51:17 ostrich 19:52:01 heh, www.org is the W3C 19:52:01 cute 19:53:26 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:55:40 brainfuckxt.... why do people keep making brainfuck derivatives 19:55:52 -!- coppro has joined. 19:59:37 ais523: [http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Kryptonx User:KryptonX] 19:59:38 how absurd 19:59:54 not everyone has to know wikisyntax 20:00:03 also, note that that corresponds to a piped link, not a regular one 20:00:05 they do 20:00:06 == External resources == 20:00:07 * [[Brainfuck++|Brainfuck++ -- A Brainfuck extension]] 20:00:12 oh dear 20:00:15 perhaps it's an srlink 20:00:19 srlink? 20:00:29 see {{srlink}} on Wikipedia, I invented it 20:00:42 it's for self-links that conceptually point to "Wikipedia" rather than "this site" 20:00:51 ah 20:01:35 "Articles about online communities may well discuss Wikipedia as an example, in a neutral tone, without specifically implying that the article in question is being read on—or is a part of—Wikipedia." 20:01:43 I really love Wikipedia's self-reference policy. 20:01:56 It makes the articles so much more fun to read. 20:03:03 hmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Template%3ASrlink&namespace=0 is quite an interesting list 20:03:22 List of people associated with the Revolt of the Comuneros (transclusion) ‎ (links) 20:03:30 I smell a misuse... 20:03:40 wow that article cites answers.com 20:03:47 ooh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WP_on_Getty_images_with_watermark.jpg is reasonably confusing 20:04:06 ais523: it's used as an example on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud 20:04:08 which is brilliant 20:04:14 "An image of the Main Page of Wikipedia watermarked, claimed as copyrighted, and sold by Getty Images and Agence France-Presse. Wikipedia text is licensed CC-BY-SA 3.0 which requires the same or similar free license on all derivative works." 20:04:15 I know, that's how I found it 20:04:34 the best thing is the deletion notice, there's a raging debate as to whether it's copyvio or not 20:05:10 ais523: I think it might be original enough to count 20:05:31 you can see distortions from the screen, the browser chrome, the border of the laptop, the blankness behind it, and several watermarks 20:05:37 and also it's rotated 20:05:45 so I'd say it's probably a license violation 20:05:49 apparently, the deletion discussion's been going since January 20:05:50 and a copyvio 20:06:12 my guess is that Wikipedia and Getty are copyvioing each other 20:06:18 that doesn't surprise me, given that Commons is apparently seriously dysfunctional 20:06:25 brainfuckxt article: "make the language more powerful ... 100,000 ASCII Character slots" 20:06:36 nortti_: it's more powerful in that it's sub-TC 20:06:42 because there's only one level of loops 20:06:55 ais523: btw, can you give your assessment as to the computational class of BrainfuckXT? FSA or LBA, I suspect 20:07:02 I'm wikifying it and want to put it in a computational class category 20:07:14 that'd mean actually reading the article 20:07:17 do I /have/ to? :) 20:07:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuckXT 20:07:26 yes :) 20:07:27 let's go 20:07:58 Wait 20:08:12 ais523: "The image is a derivative of a CC-BY-SA image, so by the plain reading of the CC-BY-SA license must be (and is) licensed CC-BY-SA." 20:08:19 hmm, we have infinite memory, but awkward control flow 20:08:20 ais523: these people need to play nomic... 20:08:21 nortti_: it's more powerful in that it's sub-TC because there's only one level of loops // the interesting thing is that we don't need infinite levels of loops to simulate a UTM, so the question is, how many depths of loops renders it TC (OH GOD FANCY L) 20:08:27 If Getty violated Wikimedia's terms, Wikimedia cannot then go use the illegally licensed image itself? 20:08:29 elliott: that's not true; there's also the possibility that it's illegal 20:08:30 SHALL but didn't 20:08:46 ais523: indeed 20:08:50 this is something that people keep getting wrong about the GPL, incidentally 20:08:51 Sgeo: of course not, Getty hold the copyright to it; if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to license it as CC-BY-SA 20:08:55 which is what they're required to do, of course 20:08:58 it's commonly used to spread FUD 20:09:02 There's also the possibility of fair use, lest we forget. 20:09:10 it's copyrighted to them and not released under any free license, so it's illegal for Wikimedia to use it 20:09:13 elliott: I believe Getty and Wikimedia both hold the copyright to parts of it 20:09:15 OTOH, Getty are also breaking the law 20:09:17 but that's a separate matter 20:09:19 as does whoever wrote the main page blurbs on the day in question 20:09:30 Gregor: well... 20:09:35 Gregor: I doubt you could use that under fair use 20:09:38 you can hardly argue it's irreplacable 20:09:44 I could make a similar image in 10 minutes 20:09:47 Probably not, but it's an angle of argument. 20:09:54 Gregor: also, it's probably being misused as fair use 20:09:58 it's being used to illustrate copyfraud 20:10:01 rather than Wikipedia, or... computers 20:10:03 actually, this is confusing; it has while and an if that can go inside it, but the tape is 100000 elements long, but it also supports arbitrary-length strings 20:10:09 or photography at weird angles 20:10:14 so it's being used for a sort of meta-use 20:10:21 which is probably not OK fair use 20:10:29 ais523: are you sure it supports arbitrary-length strings? 20:10:35 Gregor: also, it's probably being misused as fair use // I actually meant fair use the other way, Getty may be able to argue free use. 20:10:39 Erm 20:10:41 *fair use 20:10:50 elliott: there's no indication anywhere that the strings are bounded in length 20:10:56 Gregor: err, hmm 20:10:59 elliott: If it makes you feel better, that image is currently marked for deletion due to potential copy vio. 20:11:02 that's interesting, but I don't know if it's true 20:11:05 if the "indexing integer" has unlimited range, I think it's TC 20:11:07 pikhq_: that's what we're discussing 20:11:07 but... would a similar image really be a suitable example of copyfraud? 20:11:23 ais523: if it's an indexing integer, presumably the maximum value is 100,000 20:11:24 elliott: Neither do I, I'm just saying it's a possible argument for Getty :) 20:11:26 wait, no 20:11:36 olsner: no, but that doesn't change the fact that Wikipedia are probably misusing it and so it doesn't count as fair use for them in the first place 20:11:43 elliott: no, there's the tape ("ASCII slots"), which is 100000 characters long 20:11:54 and also 30,000 "string slots" which hold arbitrary-length strings 20:12:08 hmm 20:12:27 wait, no, there's no way to read the value of a string or a character in a string, only to print it out 20:12:30 that language has far too many print operators 20:13:34 hmm, maybe i should tell dtsund he's probably violating the Crawl license 20:14:09 how? 20:14:23 haha, Randall Munroe CC-by-saed exactly one panel of xkcd, so that Wikipedia could use it to illustrate the article 20:14:26 he's importing commits from Stone Soup, but not attributing their authors 20:14:41 haha, Randall Munroe CC-by-saed exactly one panel of xkcd, so that Wikipedia could use it to illustrate the article // lolwut? Which? Where? 20:14:45 I always make sure to attribute the authors when importing in NetHack 4 20:14:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xkcd_philosophy.png 20:14:53 actually 20:14:57 why is he even making new commits? 20:14:58 it's git 20:15:02 he can just cherry-pick the commit 20:15:07 and have git track the authorshi 20:15:08 "just", hahahaha 20:15:08 p 20:15:15 ais523: oh shush, it's not that difficult 20:15:22 it usually doesn't work 20:15:30 anyway, maybe I won't bother telling him, probably nobody cares 20:15:35 also, git doesn't track the authorship specially, just appends something to the commit message 20:15:52 (but I feel bad about it) 20:16:27 there are a few other CC-by-saed xkcd panels, mostly ones that refer to Wikipedia itself 20:16:36 -!- jobes has joined. 20:16:51 Whoaaaah, we have a visitor from the land of ipv6. 20:17:11 `welcome jobes 20:17:14 jobes: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:17:15 Are you from... the future? 20:17:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight). 20:17:32 hello 20:18:00 hi 20:18:29 ais523: hmm, simply adding the authors of all the imported commits to a file in a new commit should be sufficient, right? 20:18:43 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:18:53 good way to avoid giving legal advice 20:19:15 -!- augur has joined. 20:19:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:13 -!- jobes has left ("Odchzm"). 20:30:28 Hmm 20:30:39 I want to give illegal advice, but how... 20:31:07 I am a laywer and a doctor. I recommend taking your heart out and carving your will into it. 20:32:01 ok 20:34:35 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 20:35:02 As a lawyer, I wholeheartedly recommend misrepresenting yourself as a lawyer. 20:35:30 as your attorney i advise you to rent a very fast car with no top 20:41:16 Now I think this may be the proper way to define an improper religion: "who use deceptive recruitment practices and use advanced psychological manipulative techniques to reduce their followers to near-zombie state. They entrap followers within the group and destroy their ability to think logically." 20:41:56 Sgeo: It would probably be difficult to do anything if your heart has been removed, isn't it? 20:42:07 I am high on SLEEP DEPRIVATION 20:42:20 hi 21:02:14 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:05:19 OK, I'm terrified of mine and/or ais523's powers now. 21:23:31 http://ompldr.org/vZHU2bg <-- I heard using google translate on the page usually works 21:23:37 (if you are still looking for a solution) 21:24:08 That sounds a lot more painful than just using a different DNS server or the alternate domain name... or not using TPB, which has been working fine for me. 21:24:12 and with magnet links, there is no tracker to block 21:24:25 elliott, ah okay, the google translate trick is for when the IP is blocked too 21:25:25 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:44:12 someone misusing the tag :( 21:46:04 night 21:46:30 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 22:05:28 Something very strange has happened ... 22:05:44 Either my sense of smell /markedly/ and inexplicably improved during the night between Saturday and Sunday, 22:05:57 or I'm having some kind of multi-day psychotic event in which I imagine that my sense of smell has markedly improved. 22:07:40 The fact that I mostly seem to smell something akin to the taste of rust, which I interpret to be blood, lends credence to the latter explanation. 22:08:17 Gregor: Your fnarfitude is fnarfolving. 22:09:03 Gregor: If it helps, blood is quite metallic for normal people, too :P 22:09:26 The point is that I don't think I should be smelling blood. 22:09:30 What with the lack of blood around me. 22:09:42 Gregor: Blood is INSIDE you, man. 22:09:50 You're fnarfing YOURSELF. 22:10:04 Uhh 22:12:17 -!- itidus22 has joined. 22:13:03 JESUS 22:13:10 My eye is burning 22:13:14 I just smelled mints 22:13:53 Mmmmm 22:13:56 Gregor: Mints smell lovely. 22:14:03 They also taste lovely. 22:14:11 They might clear up that rusty smell! 22:14:55 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:17:42 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:19:24 Note to self: add to vocabulary: noöne 22:19:44 "no-one" is an awful word 22:19:45 say nobody 22:20:02 No, say nopony. 22:20:06 HAW HAW HAW *runs* 22:20:14 noöne looks even better (as in more awful). 22:22:01 -!- itidus21 has joined. 22:23:32 -!- calamari has joined. 22:26:31 -!- monqy has joined. 22:26:58 -!- madbr has joined. 22:26:58 p 22:27:06 q 22:27:09 r 22:27:38 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:27:40 q 22:27:47 p 22:27:53 q 22:28:05 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:28:07 ю 22:28:26 ʞ 22:35:12 -!- itidus21 has joined. 22:37:50 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:45:23 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:07:17 I think that if the tax brackets are 10% up to $50.00 and 20% up to $100.00, then if you earn $51.00 then the amount of tax you pay should be $5.20 23:08:20 yeah that's how tax brackets work 23:08:28 otherwise it would be totally braindead 23:16:05 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:27:17 -!- augur has joined. 23:30:03 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:31:33 -!- myndzi has joined. 23:33:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:33:09 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:33:53 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:44:05 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 23:45:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2012-05-22: 00:13:36 gimcrack (n). Definition: gewgaw 00:13:38 Gee, thanks. 00:14:03 gewgaw (n). Definition: gimcrack 00:14:25 Yeah, I'll bet 00:25:59 Oh god I can still smell make it stop 00:26:04 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:29:26 Gregor: Try milk. 00:32:52 elliott: I haven't got any. 00:39:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:32 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:51:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:52:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:07:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:23 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:16:19 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 01:30:47 Gregor: what's this about doodads? 01:31:11 quintopia: I was just curious about curios. 01:32:16 Joanie loves tchotchkes 01:45:10 In Dungeons&Dragons game, I have used a few methods to determine my location when it was unknown (as well as confirm that we have not been time-warped); some by magic, and some by astronomy. 01:46:28 Now I have a plan except determining what to tell to the chancellor 01:52:38 Here is one idea of D&D spell: Level: Clr 0, Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 0 Casting time: Immediate Range: 10 ft Duration: 1 round/level or until discharged (D) Target: One creature Save: Will negates Resist: Yes Components: V, S, XP 01:53:56 If the target of this spell is targeted by a 9th or higher level spell in the duration of this spell, this spell becomes discharged, the other spell is canceled, and target takes 1 point of damage and so does the caster of other spell. This spell fails if target has used magic in past 5 rounds, and is canceled if target uses magic during this spell's duration. XP cost: 1 XP. 02:17:18 I have a list of strategies for mahjong which consists of jokes as well as things that aren't related to mahjong. Including: "Always remember what your tiles look like, in case of sudden blindness." and "Do not discard tiles nobody has discarded, or that anybody has discarded early, mid, or late game. If possible you can consider not discarding at all. But it's a double-edged sword. I can't recommend this to amateurs." 02:24:01 "Never choose scissors, unless the other guy chooses paper." Does this mean that Urbanus Defense and stalemates are not effective if you choose scissors? 02:26:14 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:29:20 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:36:38 zzo38: Have you ever played Double Fanucci? 02:37:08 shachaf: No, I have never done so. 02:37:15 Pity. 02:37:41 "Three undertrumps after an opponent's discard of a Trebled Fromp is an indefensible gambit, and is the only known way to win at Double Fanucci." 02:38:02 shachaf: I know that already. 02:38:15 zzo38: Did you ever play _Zork Zero_? 02:38:21 No 02:38:27 You should! 02:38:37 One of the legal moves in Double Fanucci is "Cheat", I believe. 02:38:44 I do not have a copy of this game 02:39:07 However I would like to have a Fanucci deck, as well as a tarot deck 02:39:55 zzo38: You should acquire a copy of Zork Zero and play it! 02:40:40 Would it run in Frotz? 02:43:07 I think so? 02:43:13 I believe I ran it in WinFrotz. 02:43:26 It was a .zip file. 02:43:29 Z-code Version 6? 03:20:23 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:14:09 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 04:21:54 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:25:23 "dvilj < paper.dvi | lp" doesn't work; you need to specify "dvilj - < paper.dvi | lp" to get your document to print. Why did they make it like that? 04:27:50 Do you have any tarot deck, Fanucci deck, flower card (hanafuda) deck, etc? 04:28:25 I own a Japanese flower card deck made by Nintendo. 04:55:55 elliott, monqy UPDATE 04:56:09 monqy 04:56:11 only gets worse over time 04:56:53 hi 04:57:58 -!- SchrodingersCat has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:58:20 hi 04:59:17 -!- SchrodingersCat has joined. 05:19:15 -!- nortti_ has joined. 05:20:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ORiOYOH3NI4 hey, graphic quality that I'm used to! 05:53:47 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 05:59:19 Which feature should I implement next for Internet Quiz Engine? * Timer/time limits * Synchronet module * Printout * Text entry questions * Other (please specify) 06:00:39 zzo38: * Other (please specify) 06:01:00 shachaf: OK. Please specify. 06:01:21 zzo38: Oh, I thought that option was me asking *you* to specify. 06:01:32 In that case I want * Synchronet module 06:02:26 OK. I think it is possible to write Synchronet modules in Javascript, although C and so on can also be used 06:03:03 I don't know what a * Synchronet module is. 06:03:07 But it sounds fancy. 06:04:27 I mean a door program for Synchronet BBS 06:10:55 Please learn what it is before answering! 06:14:57 * Other (Skynet) 06:25:21 What is this Skynet? 06:31:31 Synchronet includes a telnet server, rlogin server, FTP server, HTTP server, gopher server, SMTP server, POP3 server, NNTP server, and IRC server; external door programs can be native programs, Javascript programs, and DOS programs (regardless of what operating system Synchronet is running on); connects to DOVE-Net and FidoNet; and even some more things..... 06:32:52 zzo38: Why do you like Gopher so much? 06:32:55 No one uses it. 06:33:01 Even Firefox doesn't support it anymore. 06:34:23 Some people use it. And, there are extensions for Firefox to support it (which works better than what Firefox used to have, too) 06:45:16 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 06:46:03 Skynet is a reference to a fictional computer (network?). It was evil, or something 06:46:18 I should actually watch or something 06:48:29 thanks 06:53:27 zzo38: why do you use a protocol that requires extra effort to be able to use, and is used by such a very small minority of people in the world? 06:58:47 It doesn't require extra effort. 07:00:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:02:19 hi ais523 07:03:01 hi 07:03:15 hi ais523 07:04:02 hi shachaf 07:07:20 zzo38: it requires you to install a plugin 07:11:38 I once pondered the possibility of storing static webpages as about: URLs, distributed via .reg files that would install a shorter about: URL as a pointer to the larger about: URL 07:11:54 (I was a kid) 07:12:36 good ponder 07:13:23 I was scared of web hosting. 07:13:36 It seemed to cost money. Clearly, distributing .reg files would be free, or something 07:30:21 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:43:08 http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ neat 07:44:15 you're all going to miss it !!! 07:44:49 im watch 07:45:23 monqy: did you miss the lift-off!!! 07:45:28 no i saw it 07:45:31 good 07:45:31 the countdown too 07:45:37 it was a good countdown 07:45:39 lots of time passing 07:45:41 lots of times 07:46:13 i like the camera attached to it 07:46:29 at least i'm assuming that's what it is 07:46:51 ha 07:46:53 look at that camera go 07:47:29 ok a camera burning up is the coolest-looking thing 07:47:38 actually i guess it's not burning up 07:47:43 but it's going messy!!! 07:48:18 rocket xcitement 07:48:27 that thing looks hot!!! 07:48:33 be careful camera 07:48:55 it sure is quiet in space 07:50:03 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:50:52 i think something's about to happen!!!! 07:50:58 rocket xcitement levels: doubled 07:52:15 quintopia: Well, you can install various programs are available. But anything on the computer require installing a plugin unless included with operating system. With Windows, you need to install a program to use Firefox and wget too; with Linux both programs are included by default. 07:52:44 ok something didn't happen 07:52:46 but it's still xciting 07:53:30 oohh 07:53:31 monqy: prettey 07:53:33 wohoa, 07:53:38 what's that!! 07:53:57 it's 07:53:58 space 07:53:59 nebulas 07:54:08 like in star trek! 07:54:28 whpaoaoaooaoa 07:54:34 did you see that 07:54:45 yes 07:54:46 where is the camera 07:54:49 is it floating in space :( 07:55:04 oh good it's not 07:55:05 help 07:55:09 -!- quintopia has joined. 07:55:13 cameraaaaaaa 07:55:18 nice abstract art 07:55:27 wow it's freaking out! 07:55:55 camera pls cooperate 07:56:51 rocket are you ok 07:57:03 this is a great moment 07:57:08 monqy: did you see the spacex logo melting 07:57:13 when it was awaiting downlink thingy 07:57:14 ye 07:57:17 that was beautiful 07:57:21 video compression is wonderful 07:57:33 rocket are you melting 07:57:45 are you ok!!! 07:57:56 no i don't want to see maps show me camera 07:58:57 happy 07:59:30 are these people rockets 07:59:41 are you a rocket 07:59:42 am i a rocket 07:59:43 oh wow i didn't expect presenters 07:59:47 this is amazing 08:00:46 nice musak 08:00:48 space muzik 08:00:49 ye 08:01:01 is this what space sounds like 08:01:14 awwww 08:01:18 aww 08:01:19 what's aww 08:01:25 SpaceX Our live webcast is now complete. Thanks for tuning in. #DragonLaunch 08:01:31 what ! 08:01:39 ok but 08:01:43 they'll be back later right??? :'( 08:01:49 i dont know :[ 08:01:56 mmm i'm going to keep tuned in 08:01:58 for this space muzak 08:02:00 noooo 08:02:02 it stopped 08:02:04 nooooooooooooooo 08:02:10 i finally understand the harsh reality of space 08:03:49 -!- monqy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:22 -!- nooga has joined. 08:24:26 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:37:23 -!- aloril has joined. 08:49:42 oh man 08:49:52 crawl's tilegen stuff pops up one thing in my dock for each tile 08:49:53 it's like a dance 08:50:57 dock? 08:51:05 what desktop thing you using 08:51:13 OS X, temporarily. 08:53:46 :/ 09:09:52 What is a "10 point must system"? 09:11:36 hmm 09:25:59 "We may be stupid, but we're not clever" 09:27:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:28:35 Whose quotation is that? 09:32:05 It's from A Bit of Fry and Laurie 09:32:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ESoNgdR8E 09:32:26 Around 4:22 09:33:02 Sgeo: how do you Americans live with your crazy danger plugs 09:33:03 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 09:33:15 I mean are you immune to electricity 09:33:26 Danger plugs? 09:34:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEMA-AC-Power-Plugs.jpg 09:34:24 THE FACE OF ELECTRICAL DEATH 09:36:34 What's wrong with that? 09:37:23 There aren't any insulating sleeves on the blades! You can have live current flowing through exposed conductors centimetres from your hand! 09:38:12 I think approximately no one grabs the cord by the blandes 09:38:14 Ever 09:38:44 Yes but the plug is so small! 09:38:47 You'd have to have it sticking half-way in for that to even be possible, really 09:38:57 Why would a cord be sticking in an outlet halfway in? 09:39:12 Also the cable comes out of the back so it could get pulled halfway out! 09:39:22 HOW ARE YOU STILL ALIVE 09:40:14 Hmm, good point 09:40:24 But, it's really not difficult to not get electrocuted, I think 09:40:42 Do you have knives where you are? If you misuse those, you can get killed 09:41:08 (Note: I'm not actually as defensive as I seem, I think) 09:42:06 Well obviously, but using one of your crazy plugs is like JUGGLING KNIVES BLINDFOLDED 09:42:16 also the blindfold is MADE OF KNIVES 09:47:19 -!- derdon has joined. 09:51:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:52:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:57:10 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:00:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:06:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Page closed). 10:08:43 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 10:09:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:10:12 -!- aloril has joined. 10:19:23 I was playing Wheel of Fortune on computer and got BANKRUPT three times in a row 10:19:45 oops 10:28:45 Is the europlug really that much different? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europlug2.jpg 10:28:58 that has plastic but 10:29:01 dear god you poor europeans 10:29:05 look 10:29:10 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Moulded_and_rewireable_BS_1363_plugs.jpg 10:29:13 this is the face of true safety 10:29:57 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Three_pin_mains_plug_%28UK%29.svg 10:29:58 safety 10:30:15 Yeah, you've got that weirdo built-in fuse thing. 10:30:30 the fuse is there for SAFETY 10:30:41 Safety is for WUSSIES. 10:30:45 The plug is polarised, so that the fuse is in the line side of the supply. The standard specifies retention force for the contacts, so that the plug is difficult to dislodge by accidental knocks or strains on the flexible cord. The flexible cord always enters the plug from the bottom, discouraging removal by tugging on the cable, which can damage the cable. The internal arrangement of the terminals ensures that if the cable is pulled 10:30:45 out of the plug, the line wire breaks first. 10:31:09 SAFETY 10:32:09 Most shucko plugs also make a 90-degree angle w.r.t. the pins and the cable direction, though not all do. 10:34:12 Schuko, apparently. Well, anyway, letter order. 10:34:50 schkuo 10:36:11 What should I tell to the chancellor to lead him into the trap? (This is the Dungeons&Dragons game) 10:38:51 Schuko plug isn't "polarised", though, so you can plug it in "the wrong way around". There was a hilarious article in one magazine article about how having your devices plugged in the wrong way will make you sick. I think it also involved using a crystal pendulum to get the orientation right. 10:39:54 (The game is really won with words, not with swords.) 10:40:47 http://www.radionuoret.net/images/topseli_vaarinpain.jpg -- sadly, it's a scan so (probably? do they do OCR yet?) no Google Translate for you. 10:40:54 But you can see her doing the pendulum thing. 10:41:09 It's not a crystal pendulum, though. 10:42:06 "When a metal band, for example a symmetric ring, hanging from a string, is brought next to the outlet, it will start swinging if the plug has the wrong orientation", to paraphrase from the body text. 10:43:08 She does not recommend you to go swapping your plugs around unless you know what you're doing, though. 10:47:23 (She's an... "energy therapeut", so she's an expert in these things.) 10:48:27 @tell ais523 I cleaned up [[nethackwiki:NetHack 4]]; you're welcome. 10:48:27 Consider it noted. 10:59:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:01:18 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:12:46 @ask ais523 By the way, what's #tip? 11:12:46 Consider it noted. 11:38:01 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:47:19 elliott: NetHack meme: basically it's the only new feature that's not in any of the variants and is confirmed to be in $NEXTVERSION, and it's really minor, and many people think it's ridiculous 11:47:19 ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 11:47:25 @clear-messages 11:47:25 Messages cleared. 11:47:29 ais523: what is that feature? 11:47:37 it's a command that lets you tip containers over 11:48:02 heh 11:48:04 to what effect? 11:49:06 the contents fall out 11:49:59 that's awesome 11:50:01 you should implement it 12:11:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 12:27:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:28:16 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:30:02 -!- DH____ has joined. 12:33:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:34:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:34:35 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:40:41 -!- aloril has joined. 13:25:57 -!- augur has joined. 13:27:03 -!- cheater has joined. 13:34:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:44:37 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:44:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:45:41 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:57:27 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 14:01:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:29 -!- augur has joined. 14:02:28 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:02:36 -!- augur has joined. 14:04:31 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:05:29 -!- augur has joined. 14:05:32 Hello 14:05:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:06:03 -!- augur has joined. 14:06:32 -!- Gregor has set topic: TOMORROW IS THE MOUNTAIN | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:12:19 hi 14:40:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:40:49 -!- augur has joined. 14:45:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:49:28 -!- cheater has joined. 14:54:02 * Sgeo wonders if Quassel has improved since he last tried it 14:54:16 0.8 is out 14:55:37 "Useless use of \E" 14:55:42 they didn't have to phrase it /quite/ like that :) 14:55:59 what does \E do? 14:56:20 This is why Perl is fourth on my list of non-esoteric programming languages to learn 14:56:49 I thought that perl was esoteric. like java' 14:57:08 that reminds me, I was going to delete [[esolang:Java]] 14:57:23 but instead I'll tell ais523 to do it 14:57:43 Java's my third for reasons I don't quite know 14:57:56 nortti: cancels a preceding directive to lowercase, uppercase, or quote interpolated variables 14:58:14 and i will do that now: 14:58:22 hey ais523, delete [[esolang:Java]], please 14:58:43 elliott: I was already doing it 14:58:53 thanks 14:58:53 nortti: the warning happens if you \E without anything for it to cancel 15:03:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:15:54 -!- oklofok has joined. 16:19:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:52:20 -!- augur has joined. 17:14:35 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:14:58 -!- kmc has joined. 17:31:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:33:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:43:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:02:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:10:27 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 18:11:41 -!- Guest28135 has joined. 18:11:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:12:00 Try to check the site of cottages in BALI: www.bebaucottage.comli.com 18:12:01 -!- Guest28135 has left. 18:12:14 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:13:43 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:15:48 I have an idea, I want to ask if anyone knows whether it's been done before 18:15:59 Snowyowl: OK please do so 18:16:19 Snowyowl: the answer is yes. someone knows. 18:16:33 perhaps in the very channel! 18:16:37 *this 18:16:47 the source code is a 2d maze, probably with some sort of doors and keys system 18:17:03 outputs 1 if there is a path through it and 0 if there is not 18:17:15 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:17:16 requires nondeterministic computing to compile 18:17:26 or pathfinding or whatever it's called 18:17:32 No it doesn't. 18:17:32 well 18:17:44 it depends on what youmean 18:17:47 that's as far as I've got 18:17:59 what is there that's similar 18:18:05 if the door/key system is in a sense turing-complete 18:18:13 which is to say you can implement xircuits with it 18:18:23 then there is no such decider 18:18:35 no fast decider 18:18:42 no 18:18:45 no decider 18:18:53 it's finite in size 18:19:13 so then the door/key system must not be TCthen 18:19:18 and in state space 18:19:35 then no, i've never heard of anything like it 18:19:45 my idea is that every door can be open or closed 18:19:59 and keys/switches control them 18:20:26 thanks 18:21:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:29:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:38:43 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:39:52 HATS 18:40:23 * oerjan wonders if Gregor has a sombrero 18:41:10 "Sombrero" is just Spanish for "hat" 18:41:22 i actually learned that just the other day. 18:41:24 That being said, http://codu.org/hats/Cowpoke-med.jpg. 18:42:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:42:43 (I now finally have a skimmer, which is why I said "HATS") 18:45:28 excellent for steamboat strolling, i assume 18:45:55 Yup 18:51:44 now you just need to get chrome-free tapdancing shoes. 18:52:26 Naw, I'll just swindle ponies out of their cider. 18:55:14 * oerjan assumes that's a MLP reference 18:57:50 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:13 Everything's full of multilayer perceptron references these days. 19:00:32 you'd think 19:09:58 multilayer pony 19:09:59 my little perceptron 19:12:14 My Little Perceptron: Machine Learning is Magic 19:14:30 -!- calamari has joined. 19:21:16 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:21:45 Hello 19:21:52 evening 19:21:54 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 19:22:33 morning 19:22:55 olsner: you're not in sweden? 19:23:01 of course I am 19:23:28 did sweden suddenly move? 19:24:01 it's always moving 19:24:15 ooh 19:24:22 Sweden has rollerskates now 19:27:24 There's that funnyish story about Great Britain moving. 19:27:32 http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/england.htm 19:28:00 Okay, it's kind of pointless. 19:33:35 Maybe more than kind of. 19:40:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:41:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:50:39 I, uh... The... I mean, this... there's this Eurovision contest thing, and this one entry is... it's about "social networks". 19:51:09 How's the Eurovision doing? 19:51:10 well that's inevitable, isn't it. 19:51:15 UK sucking as usual? 19:51:17 It's called "The Social Network Song: oh oh uh oh oh". 19:51:29 We don't see you until the finals, I think. 19:51:38 Okay 19:51:44 Aren't you one of the guaranteed-in countries? 19:51:51 I think so? 19:51:58 i don't watch tv, but i read somewhere that the uk's singer is supposedly engelbert humperdinck 19:52:00 I don't really follow it 19:52:05 oerjan, yeah it is 19:52:20 That seems to be the case. 19:52:30 The finals are on Saturday. 19:52:31 I think the Powers That Be thought, "I know what will win it this time! Getting someone who hasn't been popular for 40 years with a silly name!" 19:53:09 Our singer's singi in Swedish. 19:53:10 the silly name was taken from someone else who was dead already then, i read 19:53:19 euro neuro 19:53:24 I suppose they're hoping to get votes from Sweden. 19:53:28 i heard that one 19:53:56 fizzie: might work for norwegians too 19:54:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:54:58 Sweden's song is titled "Euphoria", but I don't know what language they use. It's on the Thursday semifinal, not today. 19:55:44 iirc it was english (I should not know this) 19:56:00 As seems to be Norway, with "Stay", by someone called "Tooji". 19:56:24 Denmark's on right at this moment, though. 19:57:22 tooji is a wholesome norwegian youth from pakistan or thereabouts. 19:57:32 that social network song was not very good, I'm surprised 19:59:11 Our song included a musician (cellist?) who has lived in Israel earlier, which, according to the announcers of the Finnish TV broadcast, should net us some Israelite votes. 19:59:18 I'm not sure how that works. 19:59:45 i guess shachaf would vote for you if he wasn't in the us. 20:00:23 You guys in Finland, Sweden, and Norway get to be in a sweet voting block 20:00:28 And your entries don't suck 20:00:29 But they also mentioned that Finland and Estonia are the only two countries where the TV broadcast includes (translated) subtitles for the actual songs. 20:00:40 The UK has Ireland and Malta in our block 20:01:04 i thought denmark would be in ours, but maybe they're not participating? 20:01:18 22:56 < fizzie> Denmark's on right at this moment, though. 20:01:28 ah. 20:01:48 -!- olsner has set topic: ESOTERIC SONG CONTEST | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:01:53 Are there any danes or icelanders in this channel? 20:02:22 i think i saw a dane here once. they're surprisingly rare. 20:02:34 Though I'm not sure if voting in these semifinals is restricted to countries in it? In which case this one would have only Finland, Denmark and I guess Iceland, which I missed; and then Norway and Sweden on Thursday. 20:02:42 while the icelanders are rare, unsurprisingly. 20:03:09 Iceland's bigger than Northumberland, and there's at least two Northumbrians here 20:03:19 tru dat 20:04:01 (it's only bigger by about 6000, though) 20:04:18 I don't think Finland has really gotten so many votes from the "block", statistically speaking. I mean, sure, they vote for us more than the overall average, but it's often just a token one point. 20:04:27 Taneb: bigger in area or population? 20:04:47 6000 units bigger in area. 20:05:33 olsner, population 20:06:22 if I lived on Iceland I'd probably be too busy running from volcanoes to spend a lot of time on IRC 20:07:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:42 -!- nortti_ has left ("AndroIRC"). 20:09:40 Uh... it's Austria and a "tracktor gangsta-rap duo". 20:10:33 by austria, do you mean austria, australia or switzerland? :P 20:11:08 Or Sweden? 20:11:34 Australia hasn't historically had a large presence in the eurovision contest, I don't thing. 20:12:11 I think Japan should join ESC, they belong in that kind of contest 20:12:24 fizzie: maybe the uk could send assange next year. 20:12:52 (or maybe they should rather be in the esoteric song contest) 20:13:08 have you seen assange's talk show? 20:13:09 And, for the Australian Entry, here's itidus21! 20:13:15 it's pretty interesting / entertaining 20:14:51 Taneb: hmm, good point there ... australia <-> austria <-> switzerland <-> sweden 20:15:25 <-> norway <-> denmark? 20:16:00 yeah, scandinavia is all the same... and suddenly you're in finland and iceland too 20:16:39 norway <-> netherlands <-> belgium 20:16:57 norway and netherlands? not sure 20:17:07 Hmm 20:17:16 -!- monqy has joined. 20:17:19 belgium and brussels though 20:17:42 "which one is the country? both!" 20:18:27 Luxembourg 20:21:01 ... austria's is sending (sent?) some people calling themselves "trackshittaz" :S 20:21:07 i didn't hear brussels was a country - yet. 20:21:49 olsner: If our lyric transtions are accurate, the song title means roughly "shake your ass". 20:22:22 woki mit deim popo = wookie with your poo poo? 20:24:10 oklofok: I only just now realized what your "euro neuro" was referring to. (I'd missed the three first, but they're doing short recaps now.) 20:24:30 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:25:40 -!- monqy has joined. 20:25:43 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:25:49 * oerjan recalls ye olde norwegian hit "rumpa mi" ("my ass") 20:26:22 sorry, *rompa 20:26:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:27:29 I am neither old nor norwegian enough to remember that 20:27:58 the olde is somewhat facetious, i heard it in 2004 or 2006 while up north, i think 20:28:27 Oh hay, Finland had the longest string of "been participating but never won" (1961-2003), but we screwed that up with our 2004 win; now it's Portugal (1964-present). 20:28:56 I thought Finland won in '06? 20:29:00 oerjan: heh, cute song 20:29:59 -!- monqy_ has joined. 20:30:11 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:30:38 Taneb: Sorry, yes. 20:31:02 oh, lordi! 20:31:04 Misreaded the page. 20:31:11 Lithuania should have won that year. 20:31:22 "We are the winners! Of Eurovision! 20:31:30 euro neuro was so stupid i think i blacked out. i just remember they guy said euro neuro. 20:31:33 Goodnight 20:31:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 20:32:04 there's another retard singing about how she's gonna win this year 20:32:22 and the song is absolute shit 20:32:27 I was just going to @tell Taneb that. 20:32:36 it's not even catchy in a trivial pop music fashion 20:32:43 it's just stupid 20:33:30 It's got quite a lot of "I'm the best person ever and will win everything" lyrics, not just a single refrain. 20:34:20 luckily my pizza was finished before i heard much 20:35:31 did they say that the euro neuro guy was a mathematician btw? i heard something about a mathematician before it but only paid attention during that word. 20:36:15 olsner: What's austria got to do with switzerland o_O 20:36:17 -!- monqy_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:36:24 mroman_: alps 20:36:58 -!- monqy has joined. 20:37:02 I see. 20:37:06 that and having no discernible difference, except for being different countries (but who keeps track of that?) 20:37:13 oklofok: His stage name is "Rambo Amadeus", which admittedly does sound quite mathematician-like. 20:37:26 There is a huge difference ;) 20:37:44 You're just too far away to notice. 20:37:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambo_Amadeus so i guess not 20:38:12 He graduated in tourism studies from the University of Belgrade's Faculty of Mathematics and Natural Sciences. 20:38:13 oklofok: which song was the retarded i'm-gonna-win song? 20:38:22 i don't know the name. 20:38:29 a couple of songs after euro neuro 20:39:07 Austrians all speak the same language. 20:39:22 I sorta envy that. 20:39:29 they all speak swiss? :P 20:39:31 olsner: That was Latvia's "Beautiful Song". 20:39:39 olsner: No, german ;) 20:41:20 disclaimer: the song may not have been quite as horrible as i implied, i just thought the topic was retarded. 20:41:31 but yeah it certainly wasn't very good. 20:41:39 but more seriously, what *is* the difference between austria and switzerland? 20:41:50 -!- kwertii has joined. 20:41:52 Culture. 20:41:59 olsner: The first letter. 20:42:06 Language. 20:42:09 cheese with holes? that's known to be swiss 20:42:14 Also some minor differences. 20:42:23 Like Canada and USA 20:42:52 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:01 olsner: We have cheese with holes, yes. 20:43:02 (austria and australia also have different cultures and languages, but they're still the same country) 20:44:25 fwiw, swedish cheese has holes too 20:46:04 "Austrians" sounds like a bird species. 20:46:16 "Swiss" sounds like "some guys who produce knives" 20:46:24 . 20:47:24 ooh, right, those knives/multitools - and the guards in the vatican are swiss 20:47:32 the poor austrians don't seem to have any distinguishing features 20:47:38 :D yes @Schweizergarde 20:48:33 (They carry guns under their clothes) 20:48:39 At least I hope so. 20:49:05 Perhaps they are made of guns. 20:49:05 Else it would literally be "bringing a knife to a gun fight" 20:49:38 I guess they could be "australia without the kangaroos" or "the one with the alps but *not* the cheese, the guards in the vatican or the army knives" 20:50:07 australia without the kangoroos sounds perfect. 20:50:21 olsner: austrians have opera 20:51:01 opera is much more common in russia or indonesia though 20:51:22 * oerjan swats olsner -----### 20:51:45 i _assume_ that's a pun, because i read austria is #1 on the music version. 20:52:53 apparently austria is the one that has vienna 20:54:50 Denmark and Iceland have already been accepted, but we haven't. :/ 20:55:07 (Four more to announce.) 20:55:43 -!- monqy has joined. 20:57:17 The scary! Only one more. 20:58:13 apparently prince Franz Ferdinand von Österreich-Esten, famous for starting the first world war, was austrian too 20:58:28 (I was going to say "he was austrian, but ironically his last name is switzerland!" but then I realized) 20:58:38 Oh no, no go for us. 21:01:33 also famous for Hitler and Josef Fritz... poor austrians 21:02:19 and wolfgang priklopil. 21:02:30 supposedly also famous for apfelstrudel (which I'd vaguely associate with vienna... but who keeps track of where vienna is?) and pez candy 21:03:08 also Freud, apparently... but that probably doesn't help them since "everyone" "knows" he was German 21:08:41 And Johann Strauss Jr. *blech* 21:12:35 US > Austria for sure. 21:12:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:12:52 All the famous musicians originated there. 21:13:23 *all good musicians 21:17:49 Ironically most of them were black. 21:18:12 In a dark time. 21:18:12 Arnold Schwarzenegger is from Austria 21:18:23 But not a musician? 21:18:25 all the good musicians are from the UK 21:18:32 kmc: Like? 21:18:59 radiohead 21:19:20 muse 21:19:29 franz ferdinand von not österreich 21:19:38 That is a Band @radiohead 21:19:41 and that's just recent ones 21:20:14 beatles, pink floyd, rolling stones, led zeppelin 21:20:21 basically the uk owns at music somehow 21:20:52 Ok. 21:21:03 "beatles" would be a good name for a band. 21:21:06 (As kmc would say.) 21:21:22 "as kmc would say", as shachaf would say 21:21:33 yields falsehood when preceeded by its quotation 21:23:21 Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck, Nat King Cole, Clark Terry, Robert Johnson, Howlin' Wolf, Lightnin' Hopkins, Muddy Waters, Ray Charles... 21:23:22 "yielding truth when preceded by its quotation would imply that 1=0" yielding truth when preceded by its quotation would imply that 1=0 21:23:31 beatles, pink floyd, rolling stones and led zeppelin are of these odd bands all sucky, trivial music. 21:23:39 the even ones are ok. 21:23:49 -!- derdon has joined. 21:25:08 Robert Bell . 21:25:17 I don't know any of these things. 21:26:02 shachaf: it's probably because you don't own a TV 21:26:19 -!- qfr has joined. 21:27:41 kmc: Probably. 21:27:59 IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH 21:28:21 kmc: Have you seen _Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead_? 21:28:49 no 21:28:53 You should! 21:28:55 It's a good play. 21:29:22 kmc: You neglected Queen. (how dare you) 21:29:43 i'll neglect you 21:29:58 pikhq_: Queen Elizabeth II? 21:30:02 I heard of her! 21:30:06 Is she a musician? 21:30:12 She's UK 21:30:15 So she's got to be. 21:30:34 shachaf: No, no, Her Majesty is not a musician of note. 21:31:02 Though several of Her subjects are. 21:31:17 "It's the future and Queen Elizabeth III and Queen Elizabeth IV are going to a party held by Queen Elizabeth V. They're keen to make the right impression so it's important that they choose their outfits carefully. Queen Elizabeth III has forty dresses to choose from, where as Queen Elizabeth IV has four thousand. Queen Elizabeth V has just one dress, but it has the ability to transform itself into the shape of any dress." 21:31:39 :) 21:31:58 thachaf 21:32:12 kmc: (I watched that MPEG stream over TCP/IP so it doesn't count as television.) 21:32:22 8=d 21:37:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 21:37:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:45:45 hi FireFly 21:45:47 HireFly 21:45:59 Why, hello 21:46:14 Who are you? 21:46:43 Some random person who happens to be a bit interested in esolangs 21:47:06 And in Haskell and in StackOverflow and in JavaScript? 21:47:10 Coincidence? 21:47:18 Probably 21:50:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:50:59 kmc: Just think of all the exciting Control.Concurrent.Spawn discussions you're missing in #-blah! 21:53:20 oh well 21:53:25 i did my time 21:54:15 kmc: Well, don't be surprised if you get a GitHub Pull Request!!!!!!!! 21:54:25 "as kmc would say" 21:54:26 what's the situation? 21:54:53 I think the idea is that your primitive should be parSequence{,_} instead of parMapM{,_} 21:55:16 maybe 21:55:20 i also have (|*|) :: IO (a -> b) -> IO a -> IO b 21:56:06 Have you ever used that? 21:56:13 sequence = mapM id, right? 21:56:23 shachaf: I tested it; I don't remember using it otherwise 21:56:31 mapM = sequence .: map 21:57:06 right, building sequence from mapM and building mapM from sequence are about equally difficult 21:57:12 which is to say, neither is difficult 21:59:03 and I think mapM is the more practically useful one 21:59:10 at least, it's the one I use more often 22:00:10 kmc: You should tell Peaker before he wastes his time sending you a pull request! 22:00:14 Or after. Who knows. 22:00:43 so i'm inclined to leave it alone, unless there's some additional consideration i'm missing 22:00:46 i'll let him make his case :) 22:35:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:18 -!- rvchangue_ has joined. 22:46:13 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:51:07 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:15:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:18:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:23:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:27:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:35:33 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 23:38:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:40:57 Why am I learning about Warsow, it's selling point that it heavily promotes is a turn-off for mne 23:40:59 me 23:43:32 Sgeo what selling point would that be 23:43:46 The whole "Movement is a skill" thing 23:44:06 "What sets Warow apart from other FPS games 23:44:06 Focus on movement as a skill with various possibilities of gaining speed and moving throughout levels." 23:45:12 On the one hand, I like Tremulous, on the other two hands, I hate playing as alien and the community's practically dead 23:54:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:12 kmc: UPDATE: Windows people still use "Unicode" to mean "UTF-16". 23:58:19 of course :/ 23:58:28 I guess that's more of a non-update. 23:59:40 -!- madbr has joined. 23:59:59 sort of a BREAKING NEWS update 2012-05-23: 00:00:00 shachaf no, it's not even UTF-16 00:00:09 It's not Unicode standard conformant 00:00:23 It's loosely based on UTF-16 but also Windows homebrew stuff I was told? 00:00:53 it's probably based on UCS-2 actually 00:01:19 anyway no surprise that Microsoft embraced and extended unicode 00:01:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCS-2#Use_in_major_operating_systems_and_environments hm 00:02:40 what's the point of 16 bit unicode 00:03:43 well the BMP includes most of the characters people actually care about 00:04:07 characterspeoplecareabout.bmp 00:04:22 Very much like ASCII includes most of the characters people actually carea bout. 00:04:24 *care about 00:04:28 racist 00:05:43 Gregor but it doesn't 00:06:04 That only works for some 20% of the internet content? 00:07:17 if you are ok with only BMP characters, then a 16-bit encoding is simple and supports many operations efficiently 00:07:46 so that's "the point of 16-bit Unicode" 00:08:06 the other point is that Unicode had only 16 bits of characters until about 1999 00:08:41 so it especially makes sense that the Windows NT API uses 16-bit characters 00:10:21 Kind of unfair of Unicode, really. 00:10:59 They should've used Unicode Big Endian from the start, obviously! 00:11:51 it's a tradition of #esoteric that if you say something dumb, we will mock you for it for months 00:12:08 hey shachaf, are you still angry at that one person who I forgot the nick of who liked PHP 00:12:11 because i am 00:12:12 so angry 00:12:14 Who? 00:12:27 (I don't think I got angry about that at the time.) 00:12:34 i don't remember 00:12:50 kmc: Anyway, this is an intellectual sort of channel where we mock ideas, not people! 00:12:56 This makes us better than other channels. 00:12:56 right 00:13:05 I mean it makes our ideas better than other channels' ideas. 00:13:54 The Win32 interface for getting the command line apparently gives you one long string that you have to parse yourself. 00:14:05 yeah 00:14:05 16 bit unicode has byte order mark 00:14:08 yuck 00:14:20 whereas the POSIX interface gives you several long strings that you have to parse yourself 00:14:23 Where are these slow-paced FPSes that Warsow contrasts itself with? 00:14:25 I want to try one 00:14:57 play counterstrike, hide in the toilets 00:15:00 Sgeo BF/CoD/MW series 00:15:03 nice slow pace 00:15:05 Presumably 00:15:41 http://tremulous.net/media/files/microtrem.jpg 00:15:47 qfr, meh 00:15:50 Never tried those 00:15:53 Any of them free? 00:15:57 Nope 00:18:21 I guess Allegiance might be described as slow 00:18:27 Hardly popular, though 00:21:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:21:17 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:46:27 -!- augur has joined. 01:09:45 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:19:17 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 01:19:18 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 01:20:18 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:49 -!- derdon has joined. 01:21:29 -!- atehwa has joined. 01:25:09 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:25:16 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 01:25:44 Microsoft seems to be working very hard to make Windows 8 suck. 01:26:59 Among other things, Microsoft is no longer providing a free Win32-targetting compiler. 01:27:46 Thereby hurting the single greatest asset they have: Win32 is used by nearly everything. 01:29:05 -!- oklofok has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )). 01:30:29 -!- atehwa has joined. 01:36:31 So, what my code is doing is this. 01:36:46 Read a byte from file A. Read a byte from file B. Read a byte from file C. Write a byte to file D. Repeat six and a half billion times. 01:37:36 Is that going to be as slow as it sounds like it's going to be, or is the operating system going to make it all okay? 01:39:25 if you're actually making a system call for every byte, it will be extremely slow 01:39:39 Well, it's Python. 01:39:42 if you're using the standard IO libraries of some language, they will buffer for you 01:40:20 Okay. That's good. 01:40:39 I guess that doesn't change the fact that this is only going at, like, a gigabyte an hour or something. 01:40:42 you can use strace or similar tool to confirm 01:41:04 i'm confused why you're asking if it will be slow, when you already know how fast it is :) 01:41:33 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:49:22 I can explain. 01:50:01 You see, it all started back in the year 428, when King Gunderic of the Vandals and Alans died and was succeeded by his half-brother Genseric. 01:52:07 ah, yes, that makes it quite clear 01:52:12 indeed 01:59:02 kmc: I assume tswett wants to know if it's slow relative to what it could be. 02:02:13 -!- BlueProtoman has joined. 02:03:15 I've got a question for those familiar with Brainfuck. I'm writing a BF interpreter in C++11. How can I easily jump from a '[' to a ']' if the value at the pointer is 0? 02:03:47 Sorry, you need to be using C++12 for that. 02:04:08 Damn, gcc hasn't implemented that yet. D: 02:07:49 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:08:19 Any tips? Anyone? 02:09:04 loop through the characters in the program 02:09:21 keep a counter, increment it when you see '[', decrement when you see ']' 02:09:36 Typically people maintain a table of all the matches, so when you actually run it, you just have to look it up in the table. 02:11:14 Alternately, you can compile those into conditional jumps, and then interpret the resulting bytecode. 02:11:31 kmc: I already know how to handle whether or not we have the right balance of []'s. 02:11:38 pikhq: Beyond my skill right now. 02:11:40 -!- monqy has joined. 02:11:45 Gregor: How might I go about that, then? 02:12:02 BlueProtoman: Ah, right, doing it in C++. Making parsing a bloody *pain*. 02:12:13 BlueProtoman: that algorithm isn't just good for detecting whether brackets are balanced 02:12:17 you can use it to find the matching bracket 02:12:19 just like i said 02:12:33 caching those results in a table is a fine optimization, but not necessary 02:13:06 True, it's perfectly workable, if slow, to just do that grepping each time you execute a [ or ]. 02:13:23 So how can I go with the table, then? 02:14:58 scan the program left to right 02:15:04 when you see a '[', push its index onto a stack 02:15:11 when you see ']', pop the stack 02:15:40 you now have the indices of both brackets; enter those into your table(s) 02:16:03 I'd probably use a vector in such a case. 02:16:18 and not a std::stack ? 02:16:24 For the table? 02:16:29 no, for the stack :) 02:16:51 vector is a fine choice for the table 02:17:42 or you can have each instruction of the BF program be a struct / object in its own right 02:17:52 and make the linking of brackets be a field in that object 02:19:15 Actually, each instruction is a lambda function stored in an unordered map. 02:19:40 Calling it is as easy as just instructions[program[i]], handling exceptions as necessary. 02:20:00 I wanna add a lot of derivatives to my interpreter, this'll make it really easy to do 02:22:12 Hey, wait. 02:22:30 Why couldn't I use a std::vector as the brace stack AND the brace table? It supports push and pop operations. 02:22:51 you mean two vectors? or the same one for both, somehow? 02:23:19 Oh, wait, I see. When I finish up, it should be empty. 02:23:30 Never mind. I'd have to add things to the vector along the way. 02:23:38 yes, otherwise the braces are unmatched 02:23:49 what's wrong with that? 02:24:12 depending on your reading of the brainfuck rules, it is allowed 02:25:28 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:25:30 you could say that ] is a valid brainfuck program, because it's a conditional jump (to nowhere) which is not taken 02:25:47 similarly +[ 02:26:02 i don't know if there is an authoritative source on this 02:28:59 BlueProtoman: sure, you can use a std::vector as a stack, it will work fine 02:29:37 kmc: I know *that*. I don't think we're all on the same page here, but thanks. 02:30:11 there are a few reasons to use the container which supports only the operations you need 02:31:09 i guess i won't list them 02:42:53 http://sprunge.us/UfLP If anyone wants to tell me how I'm being stupid, please do so. 02:44:26 reming me what static functions do in plain C 02:44:29 remind 02:44:51 Aren't exported outside of the compilation unit. 02:46:22 ah ok 02:49:51 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 02:51:11 Oh, and if you don't want to be psychic, I'm *trying* to create a Huffman table. 02:51:36 And it ends up creating one, except it omits entirely a lot of characters. 02:53:41 -!- BlueProtoman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:55:09 -!- atehwa has joined. 03:23:55 -!- SchrodingersCat has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 03:45:31 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 04:15:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:38:53 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:06:41 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:21:15 Correct answer is "use a less obtuse algorithm". 05:22:14 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:26:18 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:29:12 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:29:42 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:39:12 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 05:43:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:46:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:05:04 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:43:40 -!- elliott has joined. 08:54:07 19:11 Guest28135 has joined (~T@112.215.44.136) 08:54:07 elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 08:54:07 19:11 Deewiant has left IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 08:54:07 19:12 Try to check the site of cottages in BALI: www.bebaucottage.comli.com 08:54:08 19:12 Guest28135 has left () 08:54:10 i just noticed this 08:55:57 18:41:24: That being said, http://codu.org/hats/Cowpoke-med.jpg. 08:56:11 Gregor: you look so serious and world-weary 08:56:34 please sing depressing songs about failure while wearing that hat 08:56:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://programminggames.org). 08:56:58 19:50:39: I, uh... The... I mean, this... there's this Eurovision contest thing, and this one entry is... it's about "social networks". 08:57:03 fizzie: NO did I miss Eurovision??? 08:57:46 Is Brogue good? 08:57:51 Sgeo: Yes. 08:57:58 Also: re: on the subject of: songs about social networks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbYqDFvM0wE 08:58:02 I know it's been talked about in here, and I just saw it mentioned in a Reddit thread 08:58:44 I wonder if ais523 is still addicted to it. 08:58:54 There's no Brogue servers? 08:59:19 Didn't you ask that days ago? 08:59:27 It would look pretty ugly in a terminal, anyway. 08:59:35 It saves a recording file. 08:59:53 Ugh Wikia 09:00:06 You don't need the wiki. 09:00:15 The game spoils everything you need to know from inside. 09:00:16 I like spoilers 09:00:18 The game spoils everything you need to know from inside. 09:00:19 Oh, hmm 09:00:33 e.g. look at an enemy and you get information on how, and how fast, it can kill you. 09:00:35 (And vice versa.) 09:00:54 No spoilers required is a design goal, I think. 09:02:28 Hey, it has autoexplore 09:02:30 19:51:58: i don't watch tv, but i read somewhere that the uk's singer is supposedly engelbert humperdinck 09:02:37 It's spelled "Benedict Cumberbatch". 09:02:44 Sgeo: The autoexplore is not really useful. 09:02:50 (It even has an auto-play, technically.) 09:03:06 The levels are small and filled with stuff, so mostly shift+direction is what's useful. 09:03:08 Blah I need to resize the window 09:03:19 elliott: Just the first semifinal of it. 09:03:41 19:53:19: euro neuro 09:03:44 That one was great. 09:03:56 fizzie: Is it onlinebroadcasterated? 09:04:12 How do I resize the window? 09:04:24 Sgeo: + - 09:04:30 Our national BBC-alike (YLE) onlinecasts it, but possibly only within Finland. But I suppose quite a few other TV companies do too? 09:04:31 It depends on the OS, technically. 09:04:35 fizzie: Link? 09:05:33 Oh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01j741p/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2012_SemiFinal_One. 09:05:49 Yes, it's in your "iPlayer" too. 09:05:49 elliott, ty 09:05:57 I was just checking for that. 09:06:05 Sgeo: np kthx bai kde 09:06:07 Ours is yle.fi/areena but it speaks Finnish only, I think. 09:06:15 elliott, kde? 09:06:19 'Eurovision Song Contest: 2012: Semi-Final One' may be unsuitable for young audiences. 09:06:19 Yes, I am aged 16 or older 09:06:22 Uh... 09:06:26 Sgeo: K Desktop Environment 09:06:44 Yes, but what is its relevence to everything else>? 09:06:47 fizzie: So does Finland not get it live? 09:06:50 Sgeo: None whatsoever. 09:07:08 fizzie: (Also I think Finnish narration is probably funnier.) 09:07:12 Presentation. Whatever. 09:07:31 Aww, yours errors for me. 09:07:34 It is sent live, too; it's some other part of YLE Areena where live broadcasts go, but anyway. 09:07:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:07:48 The recording -- http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1525991 -- is "watchable only in Finland", according to the description. 09:08:01 "and the Hump himself will be here". 09:08:04 Thanks, BBC. ThBBC. 09:08:26 EBU.UER 09:08:52 LIGHT YOUR FIRE! 09:08:53 Correspondingly, yours doesn't work for me. "Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only." 09:09:06 I always forget that the problem with Eurovision is that you have to watch two hours of it. 09:09:14 GOOD EVENING EUROOOOOOOPE 09:09:30 It's more like six hours for both semifinals and the final. 09:09:49 fizzie: Yes, but those are in separate bits. 09:10:12 "It will reveal its secrets to you if you wear it for 1000 turns" 09:10:13 Huh? 09:10:42 Sgeo: i.e. it identifies itself. 09:11:04 Sgeo: ("Secrets" here means "the enchantment".) 09:11:10 (Note that they can be negative.) 09:11:15 (Which is bad.) 09:11:16 I guess that message could be a little clearer. 09:11:36 Huh, so paralysis actually has a timer thing go across the screen 09:11:36 ' 09:11:50 Yeah, pretty much any effect has a meter bar. 09:12:10 BTW, the easiest way to look at dungeon features/monsters is to hover over them. And also the click-to-autotravel thing is really useful. 09:12:42 20:28:27: Oh hay, Finland had the longest string of "been participating but never won" (1961-2003), but we screwed that up with our 2004 win; now it's Portugal (1964-present). 09:12:44 fizzie: Hay you! 09:13:40 AND LET THE EUROVISION SONG CONTEST BEGIIIIN and then one of them goes on a bit too long "IIIIN". 09:13:48 AZERBAIJAN 09:13:49 Is Easy Mode a bad idea? 09:13:50 LAND OF ABUNDANCE 09:14:28 Sgeo: I haven't played it. But I expect you'll get bored. 09:14:37 The first floors aren't really hard anyway. 09:15:10 Yay, Euro Neuro is first. 09:18:29 21:18:25: all the good musicians are from the UK 09:18:31 lol —the UK 09:19:43 EURO NEURO MONETARY BREAK DANCE 09:20:50 "That was Montenegro, they've never reached the final in three attempts here on Eurovision." 09:20:51 I wonder why. 09:20:57 "I can't see why." I can. 09:21:10 Oh wait, I think the presenter was being sarc— 09:21:12 AZERBAIJAN 09:21:13 LAND OF POETRY 09:21:20 —satic. 09:21:23 *astic. 09:21:44 I only heard a few seconds of euro neuro, but the way he says the "euro neuro" bit sounds somehow Finnish. 09:22:09 fizzie: You need to hear the whole thing. 09:22:12 It's a religious experience. 09:22:40 Wow Iceland this isn't very good. 09:22:43 Why is QuakeNet so popular? 09:23:06 Iceland qualified for the finals. 09:23:06 earthquakes 09:23:14 Oh sorry SPOILERS. 09:23:21 This is just bland. 09:23:29 YES VIOLIN HOW ARTY 09:24:12 Greece had a song that was exactly like the songs they always have. 09:24:26 I forget. 09:25:43 It's really annoying how the vocals are always mixed to be about 2x louder than the music in Eurovision. It makes everything sound even worse. 09:25:49 I guess that might be an upside. 09:25:53 Oh, it's Greece time. 09:26:13 fizzie: Did they KWALIFY? 09:26:19 Or did their 100% RATE get RUINED? 09:27:56 I think they did. 09:28:49 The Finnish subtitles for the song lyrics are occasionally hilarious, though I don't recall really spectacular examples offhand. 09:29:53 Do we get subtitles? I forget. 09:29:57 It's been so long. 09:31:22 According to Finnish announcers, only Finland and Estonia provide subtitles for the songs. 09:31:28 ! 09:31:30 I feel cheated. 09:31:51 They're all singing your language anyway. Well, not quite all. But most. 09:34:14 Why would she want their aphrodisiac if she's already like this? 09:34:16 Come on, this is so unrealistic. 09:34:20 Greece! You've failed me! 09:35:29 Latvia what. 09:35:48 Oh, the Beautiful Song. 09:35:53 It was discussed. 09:36:06 Sadly, they didn't qualify. 09:36:12 *sigh* what game am I downloading now 09:36:13 Cube 2 09:36:19 23:58:12: kmc: UPDATE: Windows people still use "Unicode" to mean "UTF-16". 09:36:23 shachaf: Is that Big or Little Endian? 09:36:29 fizzie: Oh, it's that thing? 09:36:34 fizzie: This will be good. 09:36:47 Sgeo: Hope you enjoyed your 3 minutes of Brogue. 09:37:06 elliott: I think that joke was already made. 09:37:11 And discussed. 09:37:19 Playing a roguelike with a GUI is weird 09:37:23 shachaf: Well, those were the last lines in the log. 09:37:37 Sgeo: It's not really a "GUI". 09:37:40 Sgeo: MORE LIKE A ROGUEUNLIKE, AM I RIGHT? 09:37:54 More like a ROGUILIKE. 09:38:09 DF needs an interface like that though 09:38:10 ROGUILIQUE 09:38:11 00:12:08: hey shachaf, are you still angry at that one person who I forgot the nick of who liked PHP 09:38:19 kmc: I'm only angry because he hecked my aim. 09:39:37 Oh, that person. 09:39:43 so angry :'( 09:39:43 02:16:24: For the table? 09:39:44 02:16:29: no, for the stack :) 09:39:46 02:16:51: vector is a fine choice for the table 09:39:48 You, er, don't need two. 09:39:59 Oh, wait, you do. 09:40:05 Actually, no, you don't. 09:40:06 Help 09:40:28 Quick, someone draw a caricature of elliott as a donkey between two haystacks! 09:40:31 02:25:30: you could say that ] is a valid brainfuck program, because it's a conditional jump (to nowhere) which is not taken 09:40:31 02:25:47: similarly +[ 09:40:31 02:26:02: i don't know if there is an authoritative source on this 09:40:36 kmc: strong consensus is that it is not valid 09:40:42 I don't know what the original implementation does 09:40:43 Do donkeys eat hay? 09:41:29 [ Starts loop, flag under pointer 09:41:29 ] Indicates end of loop 09:41:34 from the original command reference 09:41:52 What if there's a needle in their haystack? 09:41:57 Would they find it? 09:42:35 Would they use a Brayer-Moore algorithm? 09:42:47 I wish I was a donkey. :-( 09:43:17 Did you know that the most fun thing is applying a huge patch by hand? 09:43:59 elliott: I used an exciting WINDOWS DEBUGGER today! 09:50:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:51:01 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:53:06 Are we to assume that now Windows no longer has bugs? 09:55:45 I guess so. 09:56:18 Don't worry, you can still make fun of PHP. 09:59:07 -!- derdon has joined. 10:01:14 Oops, I forgot to unpause Eurovision. 10:02:03 "Beautiful song that everybody knows, that everybody loves" 10:02:04 Quite. 10:03:37 fizzie: Perhaps they're talking about some other hypothetical song? 10:03:41 I'm starting to have the impression that all these FPSes are the exact same damn game 10:04:23 fizzie: Is Albania's good? 10:04:34 "If you've got any pets, you might want to put them in another room." 10:04:35 Sounds it. 10:04:53 SUUS 10:05:23 Her hair is... interesting. 10:07:22 Well, this is the best one so far on the sole basis of not sounding predictable. 10:08:26 fizzie: Why can't UK viewers vote??? 10:08:35 I should just play whatever game all these games are based on 10:08:43 Quake 3 Arena I think? Is that free/ 10:08:44 "UK VIEWERS DO NOT VOTE IN THIS SEMI FINAL: Your vote won't count and you may be charged." 10:10:12 "The waterline could be anything you want it to be." 10:10:23 "I actually... grab... ass." 10:10:55 fizzie: "I can't do it. I can't do it at all." "Why are you here then?" "...it is mystery!" --Euro Neuro guy. 10:11:14 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:11:57 erm 10:12:20 fizzie: ban evasion ^ 10:12:24 * Sgeo wonders if anyone plays openArena 10:13:13 27 players on right now 10:13:55 elliott: HINT: Every disc covers at least one rational point, so you can't have more discs on a plane than rationals. 10:14:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:15:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:15:04 shachaf: oklopol already spoiled the answer, anyway. 10:15:23 thoklopol 10:23:43 why is elliott eurovision 10:23:52 why isn't everyone eurovision 10:24:41 -!- cheater has joined. 10:24:51 Isn't that the Molvania thing? 11:03:12 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:04:24 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:08:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:21:14 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:49:06 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:52:31 welcome back Phantom_Hoover we missed you 11:52:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:52:47 rip 11:54:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:55:59 welcome back Phantom_Hoover we missed you 11:59:17 How many times has Phantom_Hoover died? 11:59:37 10 11:59:37 Hmm, he should really be Phantom^n_Hoover 11:59:52 Make that 11. 12:00:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:01:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:35:46 shachaf: Your country's music is weird. 12:36:58 elliott: Your country's music is weird. 12:48:03 * Sgeo has decided to refer to everyone in the third person 12:48:32 * Sgeo has no real reason for doing so other than the awkwardness of above lines where he referred to Phantom_Hoover in the third person. 12:48:54 * Sgeo should sleep 12:51:15 Sgeo 12:51:31 the third person is the normal way to refer to other people if you're not directly addressing them 12:52:09 * Sgeo thinks it was awkward that he was not directly addressing Phantom_Hoover though, although Phantom_Hoover was right there. 13:00:00 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:09:38 `welcome ogrom 13:09:47 ogrom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:10:25 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:11:58 Gregor: Yooooooo fix this bug for me 13:19:45 The one where people think this is an esoterica channel? 13:21:07 Mouse battery dead 13:22:02 No, the other bug. 13:23:29 Found some batteries 13:23:44 Sgeo: You should fix the bug for me. 13:23:51 What bug? 13:24:24 Spellcast aiming in tiles is a bit weird. 13:24:44 Gregor: 13:24:45 if (is_exclude_root(gc)) 13:24:45 mf = MF_EXCL_ROOT; 13:24:46 else if (is_excluded(gc)) 13:24:48 mf = MF_EXCL; 13:24:48 Well, I don't know what game this is, and I don't know what "weird" is 13:24:54 Gregor: See, it's practically garbage collection code. 13:24:56 Sgeo: Crawl. 13:25:10 Oh 13:25:13 And "weird" is "it omits most of two rows of the target except one square is included in the second-last row". 13:27:02 Hmm, I guess I'll check beam.cc again... 13:27:28 And dungeon.cc (maybe), glwrapper.cc (doubtful), item_use.cc, spl-cast.cc, spl-util.cc. 13:27:38 Also tilereg-spl.cc. 13:27:44 And tilereg.cc. 13:27:48 And viewgom.cc, viewmap.cc. 13:29:18 Probably not dungeon.cc. 13:30:27 Note to self: Perhaps suggest showing success percentage rather than failure percentage. 13:30:38 Also check out why it says 0 for <= 2. 13:30:43 (in spl-cast.cc, failure_rate_to_string) 13:31:31 Other things to check: the Fire Storm-specific code. 13:44:44 Checked spl-cast.cc, on to spl-util.cc. 13:45:57 if (flags & SPFLAG_TARGETING_MASK) 13:45:59 Aha, grep for this too. 13:47:53 // FUNCTION APPLICATORS: Idea from Juho Snellman 13:47:53 // on the Roguelike News pages, Development section. 13:47:53 // 13:47:54 Ah, yes, the arcane magicks of functions that TAKE OTHER FUNCTIONS AS PARAMETERS AND APPLY THEM. 13:48:07 // Applies the effect to all nine squares around/including the target. 13:48:07 // Returns summation of return values from passed in function. 13:48:07 // Applies the effect to the eight squares beside the target. 13:48:08 // Returns summation of return values from passed in function. 13:48:10 *aha* 13:48:18 TODO: Look into adjacent_iterator. 13:48:41 (Except this doesn't explain why it only happens in tiles, gah! Grep for uses of apply_area_square, apply_area_around_square.) 13:48:52 (Also apply_area_within_radius.) 13:48:59 (But that uses radius_iterator, so...) 13:59:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:59:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:05:30 OK, on to tilereg-spl.cc. 14:05:44 Aha. 14:05:50 TODO: Come back to tilereg-spl.cc. 14:05:58 On to tilereg.cc. 14:10:55 TODO: Come back to tilereg.cc. 14:11:39 Done viewgom.cc. 14:13:49 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:18:18 Probably not viewmap.cc, by the looks of it. 14:18:35 TODO: Check dungeon.cc, glwrapper.cc, item_use.cc; do those greps, and check back on the things. 14:18:47 It's not item_use. 14:19:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:21:12 Why do I keep trying different FPSes? 14:21:17 They're all the same 14:22:21 They're not? 14:22:44 It seems like they're mostly just different themes 14:22:48 A few exceptions 14:22:54 If you're going to claim TF2, CoD-alikes and HL2 are all the same... 14:23:00 Sgeo: just like 3D virtual world games, then? 14:23:23 Sgeo: hitman 5 looks real good. 14:23:40 i've never thought i'd want to play a hitman game, but this one is compelling. 14:23:56 I don't know what CoD is like 14:24:06 But I think these are all Quake [123] like 14:24:08 Or something 14:24:15 quake 4 was fun 14:24:21 in its own simple way 14:24:25 Not based on what I know of Quake. 14:24:46 Sgeo, but quake 1 had a totally different storyline to quake 3! 14:24:51 Quake is about fast movement, aiming to account for that and dodging. 14:25:31 I mean, Xonotic, World of Padman, Warsow, Urban Terror (probably), 14:25:50 Tremulous at least has base building and an alien team 14:26:30 If you're trying open-source FPSes, I seem to recall that like all of them are built on the Quake engine. 14:26:33 oh now they have also made an unreal tournament clone on the crysis engine called Nexuiz or something 14:27:02 Phantom_Hoover, that's what I meant 14:27:42 Well... yeah, there aren't any well-known FOSS FPSes. 14:27:57 * Sgeo wonders if America's Army is fun 14:28:06 please don't play us army propaganda 14:28:08 love, elliott 14:28:25 *Hopefully* that Source port is real and will arrive fairly soon. 14:28:34 cheater, aren't you banned? 14:29:29 apparently i am not 14:29:40 15:28 Reply(367): #esoteric *!*@g230223105.adsl.alicedsl.de ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 1337155762 14:30:09 i assumed ais just unbanned me, since i hadn't rebooted my modem 14:30:23 elliott, hey, America's Army has those crazy level designs. 14:30:46 Oh wait the guy redid that in portal 2 14:31:09 So, what games have similar play to AA/ 14:31:20 cheater, I don't think it was intended to be temporary. 14:32:15 *shrug* nothing to lose life over 14:32:16 Sgeo, well assuming it's an ultra-realistic military sim, ARMA 2? 14:32:19 What's the difference between Quake III Arena and Unreal Tournament? 14:32:31 physics, weapons balance. 14:32:43 some new team modes in UT that didn't pick up that much 14:34:10 Phantom_Hoover, free version has no support for mods o.O 14:34:45 Phantom_Hoover: FSVO ultra-realistic. 14:35:12 I think I'm mostly interested in strategic stuff 14:35:12 elliott, um the sunken city of R'lyeh is one of the future battlegrounds for democracy. 14:35:15 Or is it tactical? 14:36:20 I just wish that the first place I had heard of Arma 2 from wasn't some religious nut's YouTube channel 14:36:40 Although that video actually had nothing to do with religion, except for the stuff in the description 14:37:55 Well um I didn't play it for long but seeing as it takes about 3 shots to put you down and combat is pretty long ranged, I'm guessing it's tactical. 14:43:03 <3 Pentagonal Dreams 14:43:45 Excuse me it must only be called The Enigma Menu Song (RIP; Will Be Missed). 14:44:10 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:44:17 `welcome ogrom 14:44:20 The welcomes, they never stop. 14:44:22 ogrom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:44:38 hi elliott 14:44:40 Pentagonal Dreams? 14:44:49 Phantom_Hoover: You know, the thing that used to be the Enigma menu music. 14:44:54 http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=73118 This thing. 14:46:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ycI_zz1jo&t=9m47s 14:46:27 Sgeo: um no that is a false god. 14:46:31 Only Enigma is allowed to use that music. 14:50:16 elliott, it's gone from all versions of Enigma, not just Debian's or something? 14:50:20 Sgeo, http://youtu.be/bQ4lLu4huzQ 14:50:23 Sgeo: Yes, all. 14:51:12 Sgeo: But it was removed from Debian's first, I think. 14:56:53 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:00:09 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 15:00:09 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 15:00:09 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 15:01:17 Why was it removed? 15:01:59 Phantom_Hoover: They didn't have a license for it. 15:02:06 Or rather, it was non-free. 15:02:09 It was just "freely redistributable" or something, I think. 15:19:08 why does haskell have no function to count elements of a list matching a predicate? 15:19:56 length . any 15:19:57 coppro: Because it's a trivial composition of existing functions: 15:19:59 length . filter p 15:20:28 * elliott awaits the kmc "trivial" police. 15:21:15 @hoogle any 15:21:15 Prelude any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool 15:21:15 Data.List any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool 15:21:15 Data.Monoid Any :: Bool -> Any 15:21:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:21:26 Hello 15:22:07 elliott: but length . filter is inefficient 15:22:12 coppro: Untrue. 15:22:23 coppro: If you think it makes two passes over the list, it doesn't (and you need to refine your understanding of non-strict evaluation). 15:22:43 From an operational point of view, length forces each cell of the list as it goes along it ,causing the computation in filter, and so on. 15:22:45 *it, causing 15:22:59 blargh 15:23:03 forgot about lazy eval again 15:23:06 (That also means that once it passes a cell, it can be garbage-collected, but you'd need an awfully large list of booleans for that to matter.) 15:23:12 I keep doing that after not programming Haskell for >1 week 15:23:17 coppro: It does wonders for efficient composition :) 15:23:24 yeah, I know 15:23:36 I've written non-trivial stuff before where efficiency mattered :) 15:23:47 and where infinite lists were involved 15:23:53 so getting the order of evaluation right was important 15:24:30 mon-util.h:47: error: ‘int8_t’ does not name a type 15:24:32 I broke... something. 15:28:07 Sgeo: Did you know that Crawl considers squares a type of circle? 15:28:23 In fact, the circle_def class will assume you mean a square circle unless you specify otherwise. 15:30:22 As opposed to a circular circle 15:30:28 elliott, can you hear thunder? 15:30:43 I... think I did, yes. 15:30:53 Weird 15:32:21 Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? / You better run, you better take cover. 15:32:55 Ah, the famous Scottish anthem. 15:32:56 Right, Phantom_Hoover? 15:33:11 Yes. 15:34:03 I though it was from that song about Austria. 15:35:13 I heard it was about Mexico. 15:35:29 fizzie: You mean Switzerland. 15:39:16 (To spoil the joke: Wikipedia once referred to Men at Work as a "Scottish-Australian" band and this was relevant somehow when I was talking to Phantom_Hoover.) 15:40:09 The two cities the song names are brussels and bombay. Hence it must be about the Dutch Empire in Indea 15:40:16 *India 15:53:49 Sgeo, APPARENTLY YOU HAVE PLAYED WORLDS 15:54:16 Phantom_Hoover, this is correct. 15:54:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqel0k0NzNU 15:54:27 WAS IT ANYTHING LIKE THIS 15:55:09 I haven't been to many of those places 15:55:40 And these days no one is anywhere but the entry area 15:56:46 KEEP WATCHING 15:57:00 ALSO: note the data. 15:57:03 *date 15:57:40 Phantom_Hoover, the I have to take a piss scene and what's going to happen after that? 15:57:59 Just 15:58:01 all of it 15:58:20 That maze is not put together in a physically possible way. 15:58:36 You can end up seeing yourself 15:58:49 So I'm guessing this was unusual. 15:59:17 hm? 15:59:33 I'm guessing the areas depicted are not the norm. 15:59:52 Some of them area 15:59:54 are 16:00:02 Bathroom with its maze 16:00:14 Well, hmm 16:00:25 What do you mean by norm? 16:00:30 On Worlds. 16:00:47 Look, just keep watching, it gets hella weird. 16:01:58 "It's just a cube" 16:02:02 Come on you can't find the maze? 16:02:08 Hmm, Worlds, Inc seems to be fond of weird mazes 16:02:16 There's an invisible maze in that room 16:02:59 The beach is not a place that Worlds, Inc built, but it's the most common hangout now 16:03:15 Well, both it and the normal starting area have overlapping chat 16:03:55 As in, two worlds, but someone who is in one is visible in another as though they're there.... well, two worlds sharing one ... chatters and their locations thing 16:05:11 I didn't even know cel-shading was possible in Worlds 16:05:50 Oh, the weird colored purple and yellow walls are the colors of the walls of the default room when one makes a new room 16:06:56 "I did not type that" 16:07:18 Individual's Worlds can force people to say things I think 16:08:12 This place looks user-created 16:08:24 I'd like to know who made it, by that beach there's a list of user-made worlds 16:08:34 If this place is active, it's likely listed there 16:08:40 I... think 16:08:48 Or the beach's list might not have been updated 16:09:40 "Walk into myself" 16:09:54 An easy effect, two portals, one as a mirror one as not 16:10:36 HOW ARE THESE PLACES SO POPULATED? 16:10:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:10:57 The walking in space thing is used on the Meteor for some reason 16:11:06 Walking between the Meteor and the Avatar Gallery 16:11:10 -!- AnotherTest has left. 16:11:50 The place with the elevator looks like a mockery of a Worlds Inc world 16:13:02 Spy worlds tend to be like that, but I don't think this is a spy world 16:13:08 Phantom_Hoover, sorry for the chatter 16:13:53 It is unforgivable. You will be exterminated. 16:14:30 * Sgeo hmms at the forced av changes 16:14:37 That is not something I was aware was possible. 16:14:41 Voluntary av changes, yes 16:15:31 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 16:17:37 Phantom_Hoover, I can always give you a tour of Worlds, although I do not know many of those places 16:18:01 Sgeo, AAAAA YOU'RE ONE OF THEM 16:18:32 The scariest thing I'm likely to do to you is enter a mirror 16:19:38 Phantom_Hoover, I might need to give you the download link, the website is broken :( 16:22:12 Arma 2 wanted me to press the enter key on my numpad 16:22:18 I don't have an enter key on my numpad 16:22:21 :( 16:23:50 Phantom_Hoover, there's a place called the Gauntlet 16:24:07 You go into one room, you see a window into a world. The next room, new window, different world 16:24:10 etc. 16:24:20 And you see windows into all the builtin worlds 16:24:37 (It was made for technical reasons but isn't necessary anymore. Still cool though) 16:30:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:30:49 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:30:54 o.O just saw a video that was an official place but I've never seen 16:30:59 I've never been in the Sports pod 16:31:53 cool video Phantom_Hoover 16:32:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBNDa4y3pSo looks like more of a tour of the official worlds 16:32:17 im only at 2:50 so far.. 16:32:43 i like it.. none of this boring second life crap 16:33:47 itidus21, uh 16:33:58 Hookstone also trapped. His soul will never be free. 16:34:03 With Second Life, multiple people can build in the same place 16:34:13 OK so guessing the creepiness was just kind of a thing in the community. 16:34:22 Phantom_Hoover, I... guess? 16:34:27 ITIDUS IS ONE OF THEM OH GOD 16:34:30 what?? 16:34:40 Phantom_Hoover, look at video I linked starting at 39 minutes 16:34:44 Ahhhhhhhhhh 16:35:05 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:35:36 n/m 16:35:55 The gdsgewyedws have been hoiedwied 16:35:58 Why is it so easy to miss the weird parts of the maze 16:36:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:36:38 Oh, it shows more of the maze 16:36:55 Oho, the Toilet of Mystery! 16:36:58 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 16:37:04 What's the deal with this maze? 16:37:15 Phantom_Hoover: well.. i do like weird though 16:37:36 Phantom_Hoover, there are a lot of portals in it, basically. 16:37:43 Worlds uses portals a lot 16:37:52 I gathered. 16:38:30 i like qwop, i liked the stupid conspiracy theories until i started to realize people were actually haunted by such ideas day to day 16:39:45 well there is fun happy weird and theres austrian basement weird 16:39:51 i like fun happy weird 16:40:26 Oh, all those "Need to download a world" dialogs in that video are obsolete 16:40:34 And that was the problem the Gauntlet was intended to solve 16:40:41 One place where you deal with all of that garbage 16:44:31 Phantom_Hoover, there's a Sadness pod 16:45:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:45:30 Sadness... pod? 16:45:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:46:01 Yes. Worlds Center has these pod offshoots 16:46:06 Little cute worlds 16:46:29 Well, not "cute" 16:46:36 But it's a space station 16:46:47 You walk around it, then go to this arm that's part of the space station 16:46:53 Then there's a "Skydoor" to a world 16:47:00 So, there's a Sadness world 16:47:11 (Right near the Glee world) 16:47:18 And that's Glee as in the emotion 16:47:46 Who needs Glee when you have Hanson? 16:47:51 Q.E.Q. 16:48:27 elliott, is that a random remark, or did you see Hanson in one of the videos? 16:48:36 Because there's a bunch of Hanson stuff for some reason. 16:48:39 16:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqel0k0NzNU 16:48:56 You're missing out if you stopped watching it. 16:50:21 Going to see if I can find the hand garden 16:51:27 well that was certainly weird 16:51:37 I felt nothing weird about it 16:52:59 i know several videos have been posted so just to clarify, i felt that the vine sauce worlds exploration video was weird 16:53:20 and its interesting that you don't 16:53:35 There's a "Halloween Ground Zero" 16:53:38 And a "Worlds Hell" 16:55:01 Sgeo: Yeah, a creepy-looking dog thing that tells you they want to show you were they were born and then takes you to a glaringly-bright cartoon world with a bunch of animal sprites and then to a weird messed-up world and makes you say things about Jesus dying on the cross or whatever and then turns you into a skeleton and then turns you into a weird mechanical-looking thing when you walk out isn't weird at all. 16:55:10 Happened to me the other day. 16:55:31 Creepy looking dog is one of the built-in avs 16:55:44 User-made worlds can force people to say things 16:55:53 :-D 16:55:57 And ... I'm not sure about the forcibly changing someone's av. That's bizarre. 16:56:01 I should try it 16:56:22 Sgeo: To clarify: things can be weird without being seemingly-impossible. 16:56:33 Someone making that world and then doing that to random people is weird. 16:56:48 lol 16:58:20 ....Sista_ClickMe 16:58:26 "makes you say things about Jesus dying on the cross or whatever" <- um the phrase is "He died for our sins... I see no nails..." 16:58:44 Phantom_Hoover: I didn't *read* it! And it was multiple lines; you can see them in the video. 16:58:45 There's a Posable (avatar without an attached real person or bot) 16:58:55 Called Sista_Clickme 16:59:01 Clickme is totlally the best name ever 16:59:01 Did you click it? 16:59:03 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Clickme. 16:59:06 Yep 16:59:10 What happened. 16:59:11 is the text "He died for our sins... I see no nails..." itself weird? 16:59:30 Well yes because of the religious undertones that don't actually make sense. 16:59:31 Sista_ClickMe> Come along Cap, we may be nuns but we still know sexy thighs when we see them ;) 16:59:40 wat 16:59:42 ya rhetorical question :-D 16:59:50 That's what was said when I clicked Sista_ClickMe 17:00:02 Clickme: :D 17:00:08 Best sista. 17:00:29 Phantom_Hoover: fwiw i'm not one of them in the sense i haven't used worlds 17:00:42 but i have second-lifed in the past for a short while 17:01:14 lol 17:01:21 a bunch of newbie avatars in a cage 17:01:27 Clicking them causes them to ask things like ASL 17:02:02 I'm going to restart Worlds then go back there 17:02:05 So I can actually copy/paste 17:02:23 Worlds Hell is fun 17:04:03 gardenGnostic is here 17:04:16 As in, someone registerd with that named 17:07:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:07:57 Someone mentioned Onion Vortex 17:08:32 Yep, it was in the video 17:09:26 The Onion Vortex just put words in my mouth 17:09:38 "Sgeo> you know my nanme? the word of goD..click the orange disc" 17:10:50 Yep, this is totally the place 17:11:50 Loving how you think this is totally normal. 17:12:55 The list of user-made worlds even calls it ! Weird ! 17:13:02 As did the person who pointed it out to mne 17:13:22 @ping 17:13:23 pong 17:13:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:13:31 bye Taneb 17:13:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:13:41 Phantom_Hoover, I'll bring you here 17:13:49 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 17:13:52 -!- ais523 has kicked cheater User terminated!. 17:13:59 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 17:14:17 looking at cheater's messages, he doesn't seem to have improved his behaviour at all 17:14:26 I told chanserv to kickban him if he turns up again 17:14:33 heaven is closed 17:14:36 ais523: thanks 17:14:58 Clickme: Wait, Phantom_Hoover is playing? 17:15:10 No. 17:15:11 elliott, no 17:15:17 But I plan on dragging him here 17:15:41 i'll play!!!! 17:15:43 does it work in wine 17:16:04 Not sure 17:16:46 Well, that's discouraging 17:16:59 Asked someone who would be likely to know 17:17:03 "no i tried it" 17:17:08 "i used virtual box on linux" 17:17:10 "and xp" 17:17:20 what game? 17:17:25 That's so amazingly not worth it. 17:17:39 ais523: Worlds, one of those awful 90s 3D virtual reality games 17:18:22 Which is apparently still around a dozen years later? 17:18:37 Gregor: Can you imagine being an employee? 17:18:50 Maybe they come to the office every day and pretend it's still the dot-com era. 17:19:11 Gregor: Maybe they sit at their desks all day and hold meetings in a virtual office. 17:19:17 you know my name? the word of goD..click the orange disc 17:19:22 hi 17:19:25 elliott, they're a patent troll 17:19:42 Clickme: Well, that's just patent trolling! 17:20:15 -!- Clickme has changed nick to Sgeo. 17:20:20 ..in the name of the father 17:20:23 hi 17:20:44 ..his son.. 17:20:49 ..and the holy spirit..amen.... 17:21:00 ..look at him there..do walk closer and see what you have done.. 17:21:13 hi 17:21:19 hi 17:21:26 help :( 17:21:33 ..how the blood from his wounds flow so easily in your mind when you, yes you drive that evil spirit through his side.. 17:21:37 you are in an irc channel 17:21:40 oh 17:21:40 thanks 17:21:42 thanks coppro 17:21:44 ..he died for your Sin.....I see no nails.. 17:21:45 you helped me 17:21:46 you helped me a lot 17:21:47 available exist are north, south, and dennis 17:21:55 dennis 17:22:10 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 17:22:28 You meant "go dennis" 17:22:29 Duh 17:22:46 I seem to be unable to leave this room 17:23:01 There's one window with INRA out the side on the cross 17:23:06 erm, INRI 17:23:34 Ok, I needed to walk along the wall 17:24:22 When uppercased, Sin is that dude in Final Fantasy X. 17:24:25 Well, "dude". 17:24:27 Thing. 17:24:31 Ok, this place weirds me out 17:25:25 I seem to be trapped. I'm going to go to hell 17:26:42 Sgeo: FINALLY you acknowledge something is weird about it :P 17:27:33 Host-Jaguar> Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! I guess that's what you get for having a/s/l down as a hate in your info! 17:27:44 (He's caged in with the ASL asking newbies) 17:29:36 I've been here before 17:29:43 There's a naked male av with a sign as a censor 17:33:10 Hanson world has a Science Room 17:33:47 Because it's a school 17:34:24 This totally makes sense to someone somewhere 17:34:44 I understand less than half of what's going on here. 17:34:54 wow 17:34:55 that's a lot more than I do 17:35:24 I don't think "less than half" really establishes a lower bound. 17:35:43 i didn't understand your line, either :( 17:36:17 fizzie, http://worlds.com 17:36:19 If you have Windows 17:36:30 Although the download might not work 17:36:34 Sgeo: I don't think I dare. 17:36:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:37:52 Lemme find the download link that the tech support person emailed me 17:38:24 http://worlds3.worlds.com/WorldsPlayerWin7.exe 17:38:50 There's a WWF world 17:39:27 I always forget, is that a wrestling thing or a protect-nature thing? 17:40:03 both, except the former is WWE now 17:40:08 because of the latter, I think 17:40:20 thus ends the sum total of my knowledge of WWF/WWE 17:42:05 "I am Prof.Elvis H. AJAH., the Director in charge of Treasury Department, -- You are to reply through this my official alternative email address(info.bceaoobanque@yahoo.co.za) for security reasons." Sounds legit! 17:42:22 I'm sure Prof. Elvis has my security in mind. 17:50:33 I just got an email asking if I wanted a job in the mining industry. 17:50:39 Movin' on up! 17:52:03 mining coal or data or diamonds? 17:54:08 Worlds apparently saw a surge of people last night 17:54:10 Due to that video 17:54:25 hmm 17:54:33 i just watched the 45min video 17:57:45 elliott, is TinyXP an option? 17:57:50 >.> 17:58:00 oh yeah, you guys aren't running windows xp 17:59:45 "BowieWorld is a trip" 18:00:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:00:42 worlds has patented proprietry technology? i can imagine the kind of innovation 18:00:49 Hello 18:01:42 ie. none 18:03:19 elliott: that sounds actually trivial to me 18:03:29 kmc: \o/ 18:03:29 | 18:03:30 /< 18:03:32 Does that mean I win? 18:03:39 no 18:04:46 Sgeo: i wonder how many times navyboy said "I don't" during that video 18:05:57 it's like he lacked any conceptual infrastructure to understand what he was doing 18:10:26 lol 18:10:49 is there a name for keys that are only tapered on two sides? 18:11:28 Sgeo: i really enjoyed that though. i would like to make software like that 18:13:36 im not happy with the idea that anything i saw there was innovative enough for patents though 18:13:56 maybe some optimized algorithm implementations perhaps 18:17:36 Was not expecting to see a topless woman' 18:20:15 Found the walking skeletons 18:26:38 I just walked through the entire alien/skeleton/robot/pegasus adventure 18:31:12 Was it glorious. 18:32:03 I more or less knew what to expect 18:32:14 Stole the avs, so now I can be a skeleton or robot thingy anytime I want 18:32:21 Didn't think to take the alien avs, but I can 18:33:03 Skeleton: avatar:dude.0EC__C__C__C__C__T7gltLbMbOaRbUbVaWeXeYIeJeKBbPeGbonesSHHH.rwg 18:33:11 Robot thingy: avatar:sty.0ET4bfyC_AC_NC_UC0j0C0F0C0Z0PaGdudeSMMM1cG3birdieSMMMBGxIbGbitmanSmmmJb1cG3birdieSmmmKbWbGbitmanSmmmXb1cG3birdieSmmmYbNGxHbGdalek0a1a2a3a4cShhh5D0eD0fD0gD0fShhh6Shhh7D0dD0cD0cD0cShhh1bG3achooSy0ySm0y.rwg 18:33:12 call the skeleton Malaria please 18:33:24 *malaria 18:33:30 we should have a BF busy beaver competition. like, see who can write the program which prints the most characters in a given number of program characters (enough to allow complex programs, not enough to allow programs that would run until the universe ends) 18:33:58 You can run 'till the universe ends in 3 characters 18:34:15 Taneb: busy beaver implies the program must halt 18:34:27 infinite loops would be disqualified 18:34:48 but how can you know if a program will halt? 18:34:53 You can't. 18:35:04 The onus is on you to prove that your program counts. 18:35:37 humm.. 18:35:41 that sounds like an annoying competition 18:36:03 maybe 18:36:16 it also sounds like a difficult puzzle 18:36:23 don't listen to me, for i am not a math guy 18:36:26 quintopia: That was done with C programs. 18:36:30 Didn't kmc link to that? 18:36:31 Or it was shachaf. 18:36:36 The entries were beautiful. 18:37:02 elliott: i would love tosee it 18:37:20 i like that the busy beaver sequence is not just uncomputable, but it grows faster than any computable sequence 18:37:33 quintopia: that's why I pinged shachaf for you 18:37:35 oh.. so the idea is bf programs which print out a set of +-<>[],. ? 18:38:01 oops no no i got confused 18:39:42 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 18:43:26 OK , 18:43:29 *OK, beam.determine_affected_cells time. 18:45:33 so, how does one obtain non-computable data.. does that rely on externalities? 18:45:51 brute force, I believe 18:46:09 ahh.. so brute force isn't counted as computation? :D 18:46:19 kmc: whats the reduction for that proof? i cant find it 18:46:28 Not if it's done by professional computer science people 18:46:33 hehehe 18:46:35 i know it goes to halting problem, but not how 18:46:36 Taneb: Huh? 18:46:53 Rather than computers? 18:47:03 If it's computable whether some data is the non-computable data, and the non-computable data is finite, then the data is computable. 18:47:43 aiee 18:47:47 You need the professional computer science people to figure out if it halts or not 18:47:51 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:07 i should stop using words i really don't understand 18:48:27 I should stop making things up to sound clever 18:48:55 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:49:40 theres plenty of words i do understand. 18:50:03 oh wait 18:50:07 i figured it out 18:50:09 quintopia: if you had a computable upper bound for busy beaver, you could solve the halting problem 18:50:13 yeah 18:50:18 just run the program as long as the bound says 18:50:33 just run a program until your upper bound was reached.if it hasnt halted, it wont 18:50:49 what *bsd os would you recomend for novice bsd user that has used other kind of unixes for 6 years 18:51:37 (looking at wiki) just consult an oracle for the values of S(n) 18:54:45 (by "grows faster" we mean that for any computable sequence A, there is some k such that for all n>k, BusyBeaver[n] > A[n]) 18:55:28 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:56:00 -!- coppro has joined. 18:57:38 nortti: linux? :> 18:58:25 I wonder if it would be fun to be a firmware engineer 18:58:30 I was considering saying "Linux". :( 18:59:19 and I can never decide what "system" engineer or developer means 19:00:06 olsner: Linux doesn't seem to be bsd os 19:00:34 sometimes it seems to mean putting widgets together into flying gadgets (like, hardware stuff), other times it seems to mean either high-level stuff, very low-level stuff (i.e. systems programming as in C), other times building vast networks of crud screens in Java 19:01:05 I'm under the impression that Free is the most mainstreamy of them. 19:01:34 nortti_: You should ask Chris for his opinions. 19:01:37 Tell him Elliott sent you. 19:01:47 nortti_: sweden is australia, so linux is also bsd 19:02:03 elliott: where can I find him 19:02:39 Erm, http://catseye.tc/. But maybe you shouldn't actually do that. 19:02:47 Oh, what the hell, go for it. 19:03:14 hmm, here was an ad for a "development engineer" 19:03:33 (But I was kidding.) 19:05:43 other things I have a hard time with: jobs with "senior" in the title 19:05:44 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:05:54 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:06:18 can never decide whether I'd like to call myself senior, or whether it's maybe a bad thing to get involved in 19:06:40 olsner, 17. Worked for me 19:06:44 elliott: The "biggest number" C program? 19:06:55 shachaf: Yes. 19:06:56 Taneb: thanks, 13 to you 19:07:45 elliott: I don't remember the URL. 19:08:07 shachaf: Thanks. 19:08:20 elliott: If you really want it I can look it up this evening. 19:08:31 Well, quintopia is the one who'd appreciate it. 19:08:40 quintopia: If you really want it I can look it up this evening. 19:09:07 ok thx 19:09:18 The idea was that you have pseudo-C with an unlimited-size int, and you're supposed to write a function that returns the biggest possible int in under 512 bytes. 19:10:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:10:15 hi oerjan 19:10:46 hi elliott 19:10:53 hi elliott 19:15:04 Worlds is seeing a surge of people 19:15:11 This is a good thing in my opinion 19:15:28 And it's all because of that video 19:24:15 * ais523 wonders why, in Java, setAccessible works on things like java.lang.Integer 19:24:33 you can apparently modify Integers to be redefinable, then redefine them 19:29:00 "byte sex" 19:29:09 what 19:29:34 byte sex 19:29:48 what 19:30:34 another term for byte endiangness 19:30:48 -g 19:31:02 why 19:31:15 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEX_(computing) 19:31:32 ok 19:34:58 it's because geeks don't need the word for the usual meaning 19:35:16 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:35:21 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:41:49 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:46:06 medical imaging, is that fun? or maybe secure communication systems, which looked more low level 19:46:31 what are you doing 19:47:29 surfing around for jobs in the area, thought I might switch if I find something fun 19:50:06 Sgeo: was it due to the 13min video? 19:50:53 i guess that goes without saying.. 19:51:21 wow a joke about geeks not getting laid 19:51:24 how clever 19:51:34 kmc: it's funny because geeks don't get laid 19:51:54 kmc: stfu i spent like three seconds suppressing the urge to snark on it if i can resist everyone must 19:52:15 except that's not actually true 19:52:33 the geeks who don't get laid are the ones who lack skill 19:52:43 i guess jokes are founded on lies often 19:52:43 thank you for your input itidus21 19:53:01 kmc: well, lies are a different thing to stereotypes 19:53:08 it's hard to make friends if you are surrounded by people very different from you 19:53:11 jokes based on stereotypes are usually not actually funny 19:53:13 skill generates income which attracts women 19:53:13 which is why geeks don't get laid in high school 19:53:18 fortunately, real life is not high school 19:53:20 itidus21: just... stop 19:53:30 ; 19:54:51 itidus21, yes 19:55:17 ok i like hiding behind the fallacious stereotype though i secretly know geeks get laid as much as non-geeks, and it's other factors entirely which determine laid or not 19:55:42 itidus21, the yes was to the surge being caused by the video 19:55:44 i'm not sure about "as much" 19:56:12 but i think how much sex you have as an adult correlates less with how popular you were in high school than people tend to assume 19:56:45 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:57:09 I feel like I should not contribute to this conversation. 19:57:39 hi 19:57:43 so contribute to the meta-conversation 19:57:44 oh wait 19:58:17 what's the opposite of meta 19:58:39 para or ortho, take your pick 19:58:50 contribute to the orthoconversation 19:58:57 I wonder what the orthoconversation of a regular conversation is 19:59:19 it is itself? 19:59:56 I never contribute to meta-conversations. 20:00:10 olsner: no 20:00:14 the orthometaconversation would be itself 20:00:26 orthometa :/ 20:00:46 Perfectly cromulent word. 20:00:52 Also, that meme is overused. 20:00:57 meh, I should just go to bed and read a book 20:01:19 go to book and read a bed 20:01:25 but what I really should do though is locate all versions of my CV and figure out which one is the latest 20:01:29 ok, in a metaconversational sense, it seems my style makes it more necessary to indicate when a post is made in response to me with my nick 20:01:49 actually thats wrong.. 20:01:53 its just like a wave.. 20:02:02 no 20:02:03 kmc's nick was also referenced several times before mine 20:02:48 it's probably best if i stay out of the metaconversation! 20:03:17 "advanced object oriented Javascript with server communication" and "Good knowledge of Java" doesn't bode well, perhaps strike that one 20:09:10 A website powered by Java on the backend could reasonably require knowledge of both 20:14:14 Sgeo: but that would imply that the job was highly enterprisey 20:14:19 so it's probably still a bad sign 20:14:34 Java on webservers is on the short list of things that let you know you should run away 20:15:07 -!- kwertii has joined. 20:19:14 yeah, people will assume you worked in an EnterpriseJavaBeanFrameworkSolutionFactory 20:20:33 the beans being soy and lent 20:20:40 public String getHelpImTrappedInTheJavaBeanFactory(); 20:21:11 *lentils 20:22:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:22:50 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:01:03 -!- derdon has joined. 21:05:55 -!- madbr has joined. 21:07:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:12:47 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:21:17 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 21:26:06 hello 21:27:59 -!- nooga has joined. 21:34:03 -!- madbr has joined. 21:38:53 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:49:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:50:38 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:51:01 -!- madbr has joined. 22:10:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:41:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:46:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 22:46:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:46:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 22:46:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:49:35 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 22:53:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:53:47 Augh, electricsheep looks hideous at 1080p. 22:54:26 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:54:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:56:35 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:47 Huh? 23:00:20 I think i’ve seen some HD clips of ES and i don’t remember thinking they look worse than the standard stuff. 23:00:47 Yeah, those HD clips are prerendered and possibly are being held back as a future premium thing. 23:01:39 Default resolution is something like 800x592. 23:01:41 ion: btw watch NEQOXEC on CAO when it's on. 23:01:45 It's a summoning MuCK. 23:05:22 Alright 23:08:35 > 4200 / 60 23:08:36 70.0 23:09:57 Phantom_Hoover: Calculating your weed schedule? 23:10:06 Yes. 23:10:39 Is that 10 weeds every hour? 23:10:45 Your garden will be awful. 23:10:45 > 70 * 1070 * 0.425 23:10:46 31832.5 23:17:30 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:17:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:32:58 -!- monqy has joined. 23:33:44 @messages? 23:33:44 monqy: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 23:35:31 @messages! 23:35:31 Maybe you meant: messages messages? 23:38:33 monqy: it's ok if you have +23 cpa and berk trj 23:39:47 monqy: anyway so 23:39:54 did i ask you if you know where fire storm targetting is handled 23:40:02 i don't know 23:40:18 ok 23:40:21 do you know where fire storm targetting is handled 23:40:35 i don't know 23:40:59 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:41:23 thanks 23:41:36 i might just ask elliptic since he seems to be responsible for new_squarelos and it's a Squarelos Problem 23:47:22 monqy: btw 23:47:27 NEQOXEC the MuCK started 23:47:38 and got a summoning rod from xom 23:47:43 nice 23:47:46 now it's a fake musu 23:47:53 by "from xom" i mean xom gave a scroll of acq which gave the rod 23:47:57 mah it's a muck 23:47:59 and now it's like +ridiculous 23:48:21 rods rods rods is 100% muck 23:48:45 im not the one who said it was fake musu first! 23:48:48 you had to ~see it happen~ 23:50:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:53:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:53:33 -!- DH____ has joined. 23:55:54 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 23:59:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2012-05-24: 00:07:22 -!- rodgort has joined. 00:09:13 -!- kwertii has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:10:40 monqy: did i miss anything 00:12:08 no 00:12:19 oops 00:12:20 - me 00:12:28 –—–—–—– 00:15:45 -!- kwertii has joined. 00:22:53 http://i.imgur.com/GAW7C.jpg 00:24:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 00:24:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 00:24:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 00:24:08 meh 00:26:36 meh --kmc 00:27:50 hem ++kmc 00:28:02 kmc += kmc-- 00:28:17 kmc -= kmc++ 00:33:49 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:30 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:36 -!- elliott has joined. 00:41:44 hi 00:41:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:42:30 -!- MDude has joined. 00:42:47 elliott: hi elliott 00:45:26 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:49:01 monqy: witness dog 00:49:08 oh? 00:49:11 monqy: witness dog 00:49:19 how 00:49:21 are you tired 00:49:24 difficultly 00:49:27 maybe 00:49:36 not that tired 01:02:03 >>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<< 01:03:46 yes 01:06:22 maybe 01:15:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: perhaps). 01:16:41 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:35:33 monqy: guess what's about to get squarelos 01:36:46 yaey 01:37:17 monqy: i suggest you play some AKs afterwards because I'm pretty sure I ~op'd~ corrupt 01:37:20 and also tornado 01:37:23 play a tornadoing AK 01:37:45 it can't be more op than what tornado used to be 01:37:54 what did it use to be 01:38:15 level 8, near full los, no timeout, long duration, huge ac-ignoring damage per turn 01:38:50 and it did more damage if you were hasted 01:38:57 hahaha 01:38:58 wow 01:39:00 how did anyone design that 01:39:12 most of it was fixed before the release 01:39:18 then the rest of it was fixed later 01:41:26 monqy: im "tell elliptic" 01:41:31 "eagerly awaiting shaming" 01:42:48 megashamed 01:43:30 i feel the shame 01:49:02 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:49:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:52:49 monqy: im actualyl dying of the sham. 01:53:01 ? an elliott (inner sham) 01:55:15 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 02:09:23 monqy: It bothers me how we refer to a line of sight as having a shape. 02:09:31 Is there better Crawl terminology for that? 02:09:37 no 02:10:11 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:10:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:10:35 "thanks crawl" 02:10:38 all hail the circlelos 02:11:03 is the idea that line of site is not directional? 02:11:27 itidus21: the idea is that computer-game worlds have weird topology 02:11:35 and thus it's awkward to define what exactly a circle should be 02:11:56 quintopia: :( 02:12:05 * itidus21 becomes self concious of using the words "the idea" 02:12:08 honestly, a square makes the most sense when diagonal motion is possible. circles are just prettier 02:12:23 circles are not prettier !!! 02:12:38 he could just use an asterisk shape 02:12:44 sez you 02:12:44 quintopia: have you seen approximated circles 02:12:49 yes 02:12:49 in Crawl 02:12:52 because whoever makes these decisions is probably a male :P 02:12:52 anyway 02:12:54 they are awesome 02:12:55 it doesn't matter what's pretty 02:12:57 because it messes with gameplay 02:12:58 severely 02:13:11 (ask any experienced player, if you don't believe me) 02:13:20 next on the "stupid quasieuclidean things messing with gameplay" list: targeting 02:13:23 things like "it's better to approach diagonally or horizontally because the enemy will see you less" 02:13:30 not that i know how to fix it ! 02:13:36 monqy: "Make the line-of-sight square" "Make line-of-sight square" 02:13:39 which of these is more correct :( 02:13:48 "squarelos" 02:13:59 yahoo is nearly as bad as that worlds video 02:14:07 demonpoweredinternet left the room 02:14:13 timemachinemessiah left the room 02:14:22 also next on that list: light bending around walls funny 02:14:33 thejock_of_torment left the room 02:14:34 "oh well ," 02:14:51 ***********s_smell_worse_than_my_shit left the room 02:15:03 *********** ? 02:15:12 it's not important what that is 02:15:22 is there a word worse than shit :o 02:15:26 does such a word exist :o 02:15:30 please tell me what it is :o 02:16:11 one way to make true euclidean geometry works is to make diagonal moves take sqrt(2) times the amount of time orthogonal moves take (aka, 1 turn will not always be 1 time step) 02:16:11 forever a mystery 02:16:20 additionally 02:16:22 quintopia: that wouldn't work 02:16:36 monqy: "The log entries for the commits used follow:" or "The log entries for the commits used follows:" 02:16:38 which is correct :( 02:16:41 and 02:16:45 can you give a serious answer to my first question 02:16:47 that is one of the options I gave 02:16:54 monqy: why wouldnt it work 02:16:56 elliott: no because i don't have an opinion on it 02:17:02 monqy: :( 02:17:04 but i need an opinion 02:17:24 elliott: "follow" is correct 02:17:36 quintopia: since everything's all discretized you still don't get single minimal paths 02:17:48 quintopia: that throws a wrench into calling it actually euclidean, no ? 02:17:52 what are the units of space called in crawl? :D 02:17:59 the so called tiles or squares or cells 02:18:00 itidus21: squares, tiles, you name it ! 02:18:03 oh no 02:18:12 The log entries for the commits used follow (in chronological order): 02:18:18 is there a less awkward way to write this 02:18:19 monqy: its true euclidean where you're not allowed to move in z straight line. :P 02:18:20 e.g. avoiding the parenthical 02:18:26 tetragons! 02:18:38 quintopia: hardly true euclidean ! 02:19:07 The log entries for the commits used follow in chronological order 02:19:10 monqy: the space is euclidean, you just can't take advantage of the fact! 02:19:17 quintopia: im weeping 02:19:18 quintopia: pls ^ 02:19:43 monqy: the fact that i knew what they were shows that math has really let this area of naming down 02:19:44 i agree with monqy. just drop the parens 02:19:51 oh i didn't notice monqy 02:19:52 sorry monqy 02:19:54 thanks monqy 02:20:06 it seems kinda weird with the parenthical though 02:20:11 like it's obvious it's in chronological order! 02:20:23 but 02:20:25 imagine how confusing a roguelike would be if diagonals were root-2 slower than orthogonals 02:20:26 git logs usually aren't 02:20:26 if its obvious dont say it at all 02:20:27 so 02:20:35 quintopia: it's not that obvious because it's in a git log view 02:20:45 then say it :P 02:21:02 ais523: I particularly like the arguments that it's more intuitive that way 02:21:15 well one approach would be to overlay a real disc on top of the squares and make a rule about how much % of the square has to be covered before it is part of the disc 02:21:18 The (chronologically-ordered) log entries for the non-merge commits 02:21:18 unique to that branch follow: 02:21:20 is this better 02:21:20 monqy: what, root2los? 02:21:29 ais523: exactly. now add the ability to move between two points alonga straight euclidean line (without doing any actions along the way) 02:21:32 ais523: root2 diagonal movement 02:21:46 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 02:22:02 monqy: haha, that's not intuitive at all 02:22:21 unless I'm misremembering, not everyone agrees! 02:22:33 (ha ha) 02:22:54 hey ais523 02:22:57 "Make the line-of-sight square." 02:23:02 make this commit message not a contradiction in terms 02:23:21 "make the viewable region square" 02:23:31 quintopia: you can view beyond that 02:23:34 "Implement squarelos" "Import new_squarelos" 02:23:36 (also, when you say "A record of X follows:" or similar, do you use a colon, or a full stop?) 02:23:48 where squarelos and new_squarelos are technical terms 02:23:51 monqy: I mention new_squarelos in the commit message, but it is simply too powerful a word to put in the summary line! 02:24:07 elliptic used "Square LOS." but that's not even a sentence! 02:24:18 elliott: how can you view beyons that? i thought it was all fog-of-war beyond? 02:24:26 quintopia: you can remember what you saw 02:24:36 also, LOS affects things like targetting too 02:24:38 elliott: remembering is not seeing 02:24:39 so it's not just visibility 02:24:44 quintopia: it is viewing 02:24:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:24:58 then "visible region" 02:25:06 where visible=seeable 02:25:22 or "hole in the fog-of-war" :P 02:26:08 "targetable region"? 02:26:16 "active region"? 02:26:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:26:19 "field of view" 02:26:29 ^ 02:27:16 monqy: btw just to check 02:27:34 what happens when you stand directly north-west of a single-square wall with circlelos 02:27:57 monqy: aha, that one has official precedent 02:27:58 ./hints.cc: "accidentally entering into its field of view when using " 02:28:00 the same thing that happens when you stand directly north-west of a single-square wall in squarelos, no? 02:28:29 ostr << "You can easily mark its square as dangerous to avoid " 02:28:29 "accidentally entering into its field of view when using " 02:28:29 "auto-explore or auto-travel. To do so, enter targeting " 02:28:33 monqy: right, just checking 02:29:00 and when you walk slightly away from that wall? you still get a few dots south-east of you invisible but everything around them visible, right? 02:29:05 I'm just checking that I haven't introduced any nastiness 02:29:12 (because it's damn ugly in tiles) 02:29:16 (of course everything is but) 02:30:08 tiles? 02:30:15 i tested in tiles because i had to 02:30:20 anyway just confirm :'( 02:31:35 Make the field of view square. 02:31:38 is this an acceptable commit message 02:31:42 it feels weird not mentioning los 02:32:34 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:32:47 you're worrying too much about your commit messsag 02:32:48 monqy: help :( 02:33:41 monqy: help :( 02:33:42 im wory 02:33:44 the commit message can 02:33:44 never 02:33:45 be changed 02:33:50 i must get it right the first time!!! 02:34:00 rolls eyes 02:34:10 thank you github for making me stare at "Hardcore Forking Action" once again to get this done 02:34:10 someone might download it on the basis of the commit message 02:34:14 monqy: help! 02:34:24 what is hardcore forking action 02:35:29 Hardcore Forking Action 02:35:29 We're forking a repository just for you. It should only take a few seconds. Refresh at will 02:35:35 the awful message github displays when you fork a repository 02:35:46 "make the field of view square (squarelos, bitches!) 02:35:48 " 02:35:51 thanks githube 02:36:01 quintopia: no if i wrote that i'd have to kill myself and burn my corpse 02:36:17 elliott: which god 02:36:19 -!- BlueProtoman has joined. 02:36:27 what 02:36:39 which god are you sac'ing your corpse to 02:37:12 they dont burn they just disappear in flames 02:37:16 im just burning it 02:37:17 for myself 02:37:20 oh wait new person 02:37:21 `welcome BlueProtoman 02:37:25 BlueProtoman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:37:34 elliott: I've been here before. 02:37:43 you're welcome anyway 02:37:49 oh 02:37:50 well then 02:37:52 time for the second-level welcome 02:37:53 >:[ 02:37:53 friendly is not just for newcomers 02:37:56 `WELCOME BLUEPROTOMAN 02:37:59 BLUEPROTOMAN: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 02:38:01 Still, thanks. 02:38:07 `wElCoMe 02:38:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found 02:38:11 `wElCoMe test 02:38:15 you're so welcome that we forgot you were here 02:38:15 Aaaaaaargh 02:38:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found 02:38:24 You're so nice. 02:38:50 Still, that's the nicest I've ever seen anyone on IRC. Won't lie. 02:39:06 Nicest welcome wagon, rather. Hell, this is the only welcome wagon I've seen. 02:39:14 i'm trying to think of how to be amusingly horrible in response that doesn't cross the line into being actually horrible 02:39:18 i give up 02:39:20 you win, friendliness 02:39:27 In bed. 02:39:51 Anyway... 02:40:10 anyway 02:40:11 Question. I'm trying to do a Brainfuck interpreter in C++. I can successfully check to see whether the braces [] are valid, and I record their positions in a vector, too. Problem is, now I'm not sure how to use this vector to skip the instruction pointer past a ] if the value at the current cell is 0. 02:40:42 depends on your data structure 02:40:49 is a dictionary? 02:40:59 list of pairs? 02:41:07 I'm using a stack to see whether the braces are valid or not. 02:41:37 Then again, I supposed I could somehow use a stack of a pair... 02:42:29 hell, you can even just do a linear search for the matching brace every time you must jump between them :P 02:42:41 but i suppose you want efficiency 02:42:49 Here's how I check for brace validity. I just create a stack that records the position of each brace, opening or closing. If the stack underflows or ends up not empty at the end of the check, we don't run the program. 02:42:51 Yep, I do. 02:43:14 I also want to remove non-BF characters with a regex, but this is more important. 02:43:53 `help 02:43:54 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:44:09 `run 02:44:12 No output. 02:44:16 one easy thing to do is replace the braces with the location of the other brace in your actual program represtation 02:44:19 ` 02:44:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 02:44:41 quintopia: What do you mean? 02:44:46 so your have a list of +-><., or number 02:44:51 Right. 02:44:58 if its a number, check the sign 02:45:10 + means opening brace, negative means closing brace 02:45:21 No, then we have ambiguities with -'s. 02:45:41 do brace operation, jump to magnitude of number when necessary 02:45:43 nope 02:45:54 its a list now not a string remember 02:46:02 Hm, right. 02:46:50 and you do the replacement of braces with numbers when your validator pops the bracepair 02:46:59 easy peasy 02:48:12 (possible limitation: program length will be limited to max_int of the data type you use for numbers 02:48:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:48:25 but this is long enough for all real programs) 02:49:44 But don't I need the ability to reference entries by index? Lists don't provide that. 02:50:09 And I want to generalize this to other Brainfuck derivatives, some of which use numbers. 02:51:20 could actually parse to an actually AST and then everything will be fine & dandy ,right? 02:52:41 well, array. i meant list in the abstract, not a particular implementation 02:53:13 Oh, OK. Vector it is. 02:53:21 But wait! 02:53:23 but yeah, if you want to parse shit like bfjoust, why not parse to an AST 02:53:28 What are those? 02:54:16 a harder but more general technique 02:54:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 02:54:36 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:55:09 What are ASTs? 02:55:19 abstract syntax tree 02:55:23 here's another system: keep a dictionary of left/right braces. when you come to a left brace, index to dictionary key. when you come to a right brace, index it by value. 02:55:26 it's less scary than it sounds 02:55:34 you just make data types to represent each type of syntax in the language 02:57:32 elliott: French to me. I'm gonna do compilers in college, but right now... 02:58:02 quintopia: Oooh, that works, too. Thanks for the tip! 02:58:25 BlueProtoman: Here's my preferred scheme for bracket-matching: 02:58:44 BlueProtoman: You have an array, indexed by source position. 02:58:50 In array[position_of_left_brace], you store position_of_right_brace. 02:58:59 In array[position_of_right_brace], you store position_of_left_brace. 02:59:01 Then jumping is really easy. 02:59:08 Note: an associative map (like std::map) is better than an array here. 02:59:49 Or an unordered_map, maybe? Those have quicker lookup times, I think. 03:00:39 that basically sounds like what i said above, but with twice as many pairs 03:00:43 Sure, whatever. I don't do implementation details :) 03:00:43 but yeah it works too 03:00:53 quintopia: Yours is more complicated :p 03:00:53 Twice as many pairs? 03:01:18 elliott: the things i do for memory efficiency :P 03:01:23 monqy: I don't like Light folks' anti-nerfing sentiment. :( 03:01:45 elliott: come to monqys-crawl !!! in the future 03:02:19 the far far far....far 03:02:23 ....nonexitent future 03:09:05 the distant future, the year 2000 03:14:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:14:44 -!- glogbot has joined. 03:14:44 -!- glogbackup has left. 03:14:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:14:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:27:04 -!- BlueProtoman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:27:55 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:31:29 -!- elliott has joined. 03:32:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:35:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:37:22 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:38:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:59:34 -!- a has joined. 03:59:50 hi 03:59:55 -!- a has changed nick to Guest65643. 04:00:08 hi 04:00:09 `welcome Guest65643 04:00:13 Guest65643: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:00:33 -!- Guest65643 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:41 rip 04:12:21 -!- Lymee has joined. 04:15:42 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:17:07 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:17:38 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:21:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:42:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:43:36 Useful tool: https://github.com/timmaxw/netrecord 04:44:02 Useful tool: http:// 04:44:08 shachaf: You should play Crawl Light. 04:44:10 It has squarelos now. 04:44:30 elliott: help what's crawlight???????? 04:44:43 qne: what's squarelos????? 04:44:54 squarelos angeles 04:46:02 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:48:05 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:50:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:28:24 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:30:19 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 05:30:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:33:29 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:36:09 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:40:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 05:55:53 -!- bin_bash has joined. 05:56:00 I want to use brainfuck to build an IRC bot. 05:57:52 ok 05:57:54 it has been done, though 05:57:57 `welcome bin_bash 05:58:00 bin_bash: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:58:04 you'll need an interface to connect it to the network 05:58:22 It's been done? really?. well shit. 05:58:27 Well, not "really". 05:58:34 The only one I've seen just joined and said something, then pinged out a bit later. 05:58:37 Didn't even accept input. 05:58:49 lol 06:02:44 2012-04-06 12:33:29 I'm written in brainfuck 06:02:46 (But then, it was a lie.) 06:03:12 fungot: Are *you* written in brainfuck? 06:03:13 fizzie: it's probably intentionally inaccessible to the language construct, before they used computers. when i was using symbols, there's no way you can just push enter again 06:03:42 I suppose that's a "maybe". 06:03:48 @ask Patashu How was it that brogue's stairs were scummable, again? There's talk of doing something similar (monsters following you through them) for Crawl Light. 06:03:49 Consider it noted. 06:04:54 elliott: You never answore my question. 06:05:28 You asked it with too many question marks. 06:09:37 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 06:16:47 elliott: Oh. 06:16:51 elliott: What's Crawl Light? 06:17:27 A fork of Crawl that removes a lot of pointless tedium (hunger, curses, identification), shortens the game, and is starting to add new stuff; e.g. it has a hard mode. 06:17:31 Also it has squarelos now. 06:18:22 What are squarelos? 06:19:30 You know how the field of view is a badly-approximated circle in Crawl? 06:19:33 It's a square in Light. 06:19:37 Which fixes a bunch of gameplay bugs. 06:27:04 -!- bin_bash has left ("And I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad. The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."). 06:34:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:38:59 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 06:39:56 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:44:18 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:44:19 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:51:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:00:08 Patashu: hi 07:00:40 yo 07:00:41 Patashu: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 07:01:09 http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Stairdancing this should fully explain it 07:01:28 basically, in brogue monsters follow you when you take stairs if they were hunting you actively when you took it 07:01:35 X turns pass and then they come up the stairs 07:01:38 i understand that much 07:01:44 where X = how long it takes them to get there 07:01:53 yes, i also understand this :P 07:02:52 "If all these are satisfied, the game calculates how long it would take the monster to walk to where you were (not to the stairs, to where you were)" 07:02:55 this is obviously broken 07:02:56 and would be fixed 07:03:14 the thing about brogue staircases is 07:03:18 taking the staircase is an instant action 07:03:26 if you're next to a staircase you can will yourself to be next to it on the other level 07:03:28 instant as in 0 turn? 07:03:29 using your mental powers 07:03:31 0 turns 07:03:33 i know it's adjacent 07:03:35 does that mean you can go up 07:03:36 down 07:03:36 up 07:03:37 down 07:03:39 in 0 turns 07:03:42 and it takes 0 time 07:03:43 yes 07:03:45 it's a bit weird 07:03:46 that is also broken 07:03:49 and would be fixed 07:03:58 the fun thing you can exploit about this is 07:03:58 do those two things in combination fix the scumming? :P 07:04:02 say you and a monster are next to the stairs 07:04:03 you take the stairs 07:04:05 take a step 07:04:05 the monster appear 07:04:08 now take the stairs again 07:04:11 repeat as long as you like 07:04:15 it's like crawl's doordancing but with stairs 07:04:17 ugh 07:04:27 yeah, none of that will apply to Light 07:04:27 it is very cheap 07:04:36 you should play Light!!! it has squarelos now 07:04:39 thanks to meeeeee 07:05:11 oh boy, squarelos 07:05:19 now I'll have to unlearn my habit of moving diagonally towards things 07:05:23 hehehehehe 07:05:32 who even does that 07:05:36 monqy: do even you do that 07:05:38 another fun thing about brogue 07:05:41 who can be BOTHERED, man 07:05:44 monsters are slightly less likely to wake up approaching them diagonally 07:05:49 but only if they're land based 07:05:52 uhhhh 07:05:57 You never told me what squarelos were. 07:05:57 i don't do that 07:06:03 squarelos is 07:06:05 the los is a square 07:06:06 circlelos is 07:06:06 Patashu: did you know: light has sidestepping 07:06:07 the los is a circle 07:06:08 Oh, I guess you did. 07:06:11 monqy: w-what 07:06:12 Why is it a square? 07:06:20 Patashu: like in doomrl 07:06:26 shachaf: because it can't be both a square and a circle at once 07:06:30 monqy: I never mastered sidestepping in doomrl 07:06:30 Patashu: https://github.com/dtsund/crawl-light/commit/4978bd01902f948a5bdbc00d48539a2d912523a7 the biggest commit 07:06:35 "mastered" 07:06:36 in light it's just 07:06:38 50% chance 07:06:39 the end 07:06:41 at least it was 07:06:42 maybe it changed 07:07:31 'Make noise squarer.' 07:07:32 It should be a circle on even turns and a square on odd turns. 07:07:35 this is my favourite sentence of the day 07:07:55 "indjinnuity" 07:08:02 ' Replace PI with 3 for Tornado rotation purposes.' 07:08:04 oh no, pi is 3 07:08:09 *the universe explodes* 07:08:36 bye universe :'( 07:08:50 Remember when the universe explodes at the end of Riven? 07:09:00 + // const int corrupt_perc_chance = 07:09:00 1386 07:09:00 + // idistance * idistance <= ground_zero_radius2 ? 100 : 07:09:02 1387 07:09:04 + // std::max(1, 100 - (idistance * idistance - ground_zero_radius2) * 70 / 42); 07:09:06 nice forgetting-to-coment-out, elliott 07:09:20 erm 07:09:20 remove 07:09:21 commented 07:09:22 out 07:09:24 things 07:09:34 Patashu: anyway telnet light.bitprayer.com 07:09:37 also #CrawlLight 07:09:46 it's ~a whale of a time~ 07:09:57 /join #CrawlLight 07:10:09 nice try, shachaf ! 07:10:16 HELLO #cRAWLlIGHT 07:10:29 monqy: thanks ! 07:11:49 Patashu: (#crawllight does not talk much) 07:11:53 except when it does 07:12:52 Patashu: btw you should try hard mode 07:12:58 ask monqy for details on hard mde 07:12:59 mode 07:13:20 Is #CrawlLight a type of beer? 07:13:23 -!- nooga has joined. 07:14:03 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:22:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:23:52 Sgeo: You should play Crawl Light! IT HAS SQUARELOS NOW. THANKS TO ME. 07:23:56 fungot: ALSO YOU 07:23:58 elliott: (...) and generate all posible combinations of the three 07:24:01 lambdabot: AND YOU 07:24:29 And you were there, and you were there, and you were there 07:25:00 elliott: Should I play Crawl Light? 07:25:22 shachaf: No. 07:25:24 00:25 !talk crawl 07:25:24 00:25 crawl instead! =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D good for washing her mother father’s sister doesn't work in multiple .muttrcs 07:25:25 shachaf: Or yes. 07:25:38 (Maybe.) 07:25:39 (Never.) 07:30:51 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:37:23 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:41:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:55:38 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Madoka-Kaname. 08:13:51 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:15:53 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:16:32 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:22:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:30:26 I'm a little butterfly! 08:31:03 [butterfly] 08:34:23 Noo, that transcription is wrong 08:35:07 It's [bVt@flaI]! 08:35:33 i don't like that transcription 08:36:01 monqy: Can you transcribe it for us? 08:36:14 i don't know 08:36:22 it's mostly that @ that i don't like 08:37:46 @tell elliott it's mostly that @ that i don't like 08:37:46 Consider it noted. 08:38:21 you got me, 08:38:48 (don't worry monqy I'm a big monqyfan!) 08:40:52 Is it bad that the first I heard of Yahoo! Axis is due to the private key? 08:41:58 I think it just came out yesterday or something. 08:42:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/u26pv/yahoo_included_their_cert_private_key_inside_the/ 08:42:52 Sgeo I saw 08:43:04 https://p.twimg.com/AtoL12ICIAEwTbz.jpg:large 08:43:30 Ah, it's linked there 08:59:38 Sgeo: haha, ouch! 09:01:39 Sgeo: I'd heard of Yahoo! Axis before, but they only announced it today, IIRC 09:02:01 but a mistake as obvious as that is likely to be found quickly 09:02:02 sebbu, OUCH 09:02:07 Sgeo* 09:02:08 How do you 09:02:10 Make a mistake like tht? 09:02:13 that* 09:02:13 who puts their private key in a source tarball anyway? 09:02:22 ais523, I think they meant for people to use it... 09:02:29 Just they didn't think out the implications. 09:02:58 a public private key is completely useless :) 09:03:11 Yep. 09:03:23 I was assuming that maybe someone was a bit unsure of how Chrome extensions work? 09:03:32 And didn't know that much about cryptography? 09:03:41 I think they meant for the developers to use it, and, failed to think things through, to be honest. 09:03:45 it'd have to be both, I think 09:03:47 Thought that in order to sign it, they needed the key in there? 09:03:54 This doesn't look like bad will, nor an accident. 09:04:11 if only it said "PRIVATE KEY" in big letters 09:04:31 well, it makes some sort of sense to have the key with the rest of the source on their dev machines, because it's part of what you need to actually build and release the extension 09:04:53 but it doesn't make sense to make it part of the source you hand out (as part of the extension, in this case, because Chrome extensions are delivered in source form) 09:05:53 even the GPLv3's anti-tivoisation stuff doesn't require you to provide /your/ key, just if a key's required, provide a mechanism via which the user can use theirs, or one you provide for them 09:06:34 I doubt Chrome's extension system is good enough for a public testing key though. 09:06:55 Oh my shiiiit, they did *what*. 09:07:05 They actually released their private key. 09:07:09 ais523, if that's the case, there's a different question. 09:07:22 Why do the developers have direct access to the public key? 09:07:39 pikhq_: I assume a company as big as Yahoo! have more than one private key 09:07:39 I /hope/ that isn't their master key. 09:07:55 ais523: Well, true, but *any* private key leaking is moronic. 09:07:55 ais523, never assume sanity. 09:08:01 but still, a valid private key for Yahoo! is the sort of thing that criminals would find quite valuable 09:08:04 pikhq_: agreed 09:08:31 ais523, if a developer had their key. 09:08:35 That's its own kind if inane. 09:08:44 Unless it was the build manager, I suppose. 09:08:59 well, the key's got to be made out to Yahoo!, right? 09:09:45 ? 09:09:49 Any developer with it 09:09:53 Could use it for malicious purposes already 09:10:14 If devs really had it, that's possibly >10-20 people who can leak/do nasty things with it 09:10:18 right 09:10:32 Personally. 09:10:46 it's of a similar level of chaos to being able to reliably forge Bill Gates' handwritten signature, in such a way that people would believe it was him 09:11:03 well, or the equivalent for the CEO of Yahoo!, at least 09:11:08 whoever the new one is, or haven't they appointed one yet? 09:11:14 This also suggests somewhat poor key protocol. 09:11:15 -!- cheater has joined. 09:11:15 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +b cheater*!*@*.adsl.alicedsl.de. 09:11:15 -!- ChanServ has kicked cheater User is banned from this channel. 09:11:38 Why don't we have an mechanism to where 09:11:56 Meaning that I bet a lot of people are going to be trying shit on Yahoo. 09:12:02 What would be the normal thing to do, exactly? 09:12:15 Sgeo, limited distribution of the kye 09:12:16 key* 09:12:19 Only people whom need it have it 09:12:22 Or even only automatic systems. 09:12:39 (Sysadmins could easily snatch the key, I think, even with lots of precautions) 09:12:40 Rather than give devs the key? Have another in-house key? 09:12:55 Madoka-Kaname, I mean, for devs to test 09:12:56 Giving devs the production key is a horrible idea. 09:13:02 Sgeo, umm... 09:13:11 Giving devs a test key is trivial. 09:13:18 Wouldn't the private key be physically separated from everything else 09:13:19 You, well, just make one up. 09:13:21 Except when needed to publish 09:13:22 The proper solution is to have a test mode so you don't need things signed. 09:13:23 Perhaps also a testing CA. 09:13:32 Patashu: In a sane environment? Yes. 09:13:37 aiui for chrome you generate a new keypair for every extension 09:13:43 so this is hardly like leaking the yahoo master key 09:13:44 Madoka-Kaname: I'm assuming for some reason you can't just do that. 09:13:46 but still a major fuckup 09:14:08 In which case, you make a test CA and test certs off that. 09:14:08 Leaking the Yahoo CA key would... 09:14:10 Well, it would be bad. 09:14:12 Very very bad. 09:14:26 It's really not that hard. I've got the tools for it installed right now. 09:14:28 You can't even revoke a CA key, right? 09:14:31 (they come with OpenSSL) 09:14:43 Is Yahoo even a CA? 09:14:51 They might have a CA-level key 09:14:58 Madoka-Kaname: you /can/, not via the revocation method, but all the browser manufacturers will go remove the CA from their list of root keys 09:15:04 How you "revoke" a CA is convincing people to remove it from the list of approved keys. 09:15:07 it's already happened to DigiNotar 09:15:13 And a leak of a CA key makes that happen *quick*. 09:15:33 And usually they also remove all other keys you've ever had, because you're bad at this. 09:15:35 Can't convince the average user. 09:16:17 don't have to convince the average user, they put it in the browser updates and push it out as security updates 09:16:21 average user will normally apply /those/ 09:16:24 Don't have to, it's a "screaming emergency" security patch. Anymore, it'll happen unless it's some guy using Windows 95 on a computer bought in 1995. 09:16:52 And that guy has a computer where every single binary is infected with a virus, so who cares? 09:17:27 and it's probably running, umm, IE4? 09:17:45 actually, I wonder how easily exploitable IE4 on Win95 is nowadays from random attacks in the wild 09:17:51 you'd wonder if they'd died out due to a lack of hosts 09:18:05 or whether there's still one hugely optimistic win95 virus somewhere still trying to spread 09:18:17 Actually, could be running IE5.5. 09:18:51 ais523, win95 viruses can't even infect modern Windows, right? 09:19:13 In principle you could make a virus with multiple attack vectors... 09:19:18 * Sgeo watches mbam scan itself 09:19:23 But it's highly unlikely anyone bothered trying. 09:19:35 Linux/Windows might be attempted 09:19:38 I want to see a WINE-aware virus 09:19:39 But, I doubt it. 09:19:44 Madoka-Kaname: in theory they could, if the backwards-compatibility is good enough; but the attack vectors they user are pretty locked down 09:19:56 Sgeo, that is just a Linux virus in a PE executable. 09:19:59 Madoka-Kaname: Linux/Windows has been done as proof of concept, but it didn't get into the wild 09:20:02 Link libc.so 09:20:11 If you detect WINE, try using Linux syscalls 09:20:12 Done. 09:20:23 The architecture of Win9x is so damned *different* from WinNT that most of the more clever viruses would hard-core break. 09:20:42 And the less clever ones would get permission errors on WinNT. 09:21:09 Well, unless you run as admin. 09:21:10 Win95 is more secure (viruswise) than 7 nowadays? 09:21:12 ;P 09:21:18 Madoka-Kaname: Only by obscurity. 09:21:31 DOS is also pretty secure by that notion. 09:21:59 a slice of bread "the most secure computing platform" 09:22:13 hmm, /can/ Wine executables call Linux syscalls? 09:22:22 IIRC, yes. 09:22:27 I'd sort-of expect Wine to translate them into somethinge lse 09:22:29 *else 09:22:29 Stanislav recently called a brick "Lisp-like" by some measures 09:22:30 but perhaps not 09:22:35 I think he was making fun of something 09:22:39 ais523: Wine isn't that extensive. 09:22:49 ais523: It's actually most akin to Microcosm in structure. 09:22:49 ais523, I recall reading that WINE binaries can use Linux syscalls. 09:23:04 Which means that a WINE-aware program... 09:23:09 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405 09:23:18 Checks if Linux syscalls work, and, if they do, load libc.so, etc, and follow a slightly different codepath. 09:23:22 It's a PE loader and dynamic linker, with a set of libraries, with some hacks so *those* libraries can link against Linux libraries. 09:24:01 (actually, I think it's actually a set of hacks so some of its libraries are straight-up provided by .so files. But anyways.) 09:24:36 Oh, yeah, and for maximum compatibility, part of DOS and a Win16 environment (which manages to work on x86-64). 09:24:57 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:24:58 in particular, I was wondering if Windows used the interrupt in question for something else, in which case it would have to 09:25:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:25:04 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 09:25:09 in particular, I was wondering if Windows used the interrupt in question for something else, in which case it would have to 09:25:13 See logs. 09:26:10 Actually, Windows has the interesting property that the system calls are *not* part of the userspace API. 09:26:32 The interrupts used to get into kernel space are known to change with individual *patches* sometimes. 09:26:57 So, the only interrupts used by Windows are DOS interrupts, and those only for Win16. 09:27:16 And those don't interact too well with Win16 anyways. 09:27:24 Well, not all of them. 09:27:59 Though, WINE does implement them even on x86 systems *without* the virtualized real mode... 09:28:06 Wonder how it does that, actually. 09:28:27 Oh, wait, right. No, it probably doesn't. 09:28:58 Win16 programs need to work in protected mode, because configurations of Win2.0 or Win3.x would actually do that. 09:29:46 win3.1 ran in protected mode by default, if it existed on your processor 09:30:21 Yeah. 16-bit protected mode is, nevertheless, protected mode. 09:30:48 So, I guess anything using DOS interrupts on Win16 would just break horribly on popular configurations of it. 09:34:02 well, for DOS programs, it dropped into real mode temporarily to run them 09:34:22 it had a secondary alt-tab handler for that case so you could switch away from them 09:34:39 I suppose on 286 protected mode it would have. 09:35:10 ais523: As far as I know, 3.1 no longer ran on real mode at all; that's why it required at least a 286. (Though it had a separate "386 enhanced" mode.) 09:35:20 On 386 protected mode it would preëmptively multitask a bunch of virtual DOS machines. 09:35:34 "As of August 2011, even the newest x86 CPUs (including x86-64 CPUs) start in real mode at power-on and can run software written for almost any previous chip (with a few exceptions due to slight instruction set differences)." 09:36:03 ah, was that it? 09:36:19 Sgeo: I think the main thing is the absolute latest Intel chips *finally* stopped disabling A20. 09:36:20 * ais523 notes that both preëmptive and coöperative have a diaeresis 09:36:42 A20? 09:36:50 aren't they planning to reuse the opcodes for the BCD stuff for something else 09:36:51 I don't no much about this stuff 09:37:02 Sgeo: Also, you can't do the virtual-8086 mode while in the 64-bit "long mode", i.e. when running a 64-bit OS. 09:37:08 Sgeo: one of the address lines, it was repurposed for something dubious on the basis that nothing had that much memory anyway and they needed a pin 09:37:19 With 286-and-up based IBM PCs, the 20th address line was disabled by default. 09:37:32 Actually, 21st, sorry. 09:37:35 0 indexed lines. 09:38:08 This was to emulate the wrapping behavior of earlier Intel CPUs, which only had 20 address lines. 09:38:19 ais523: IIRC, they repurposed a pin from the keyboard controller to enable/disable it; it was disabled for backwards compatibility reasons, so that the one-megabit wrapping would work. 09:38:29 I was more shocked at the still supporting real mode thing 09:38:41 The upshot of which is that you had ~1M of *address* space, but only 640k of actual memory max. 09:38:43 right, the keyboard controller was repurposed for several dubious things, like rebooting 09:38:50 It's not that they'd have used the address bus pin for anything dubious. 09:38:52 Was a way to go protected -> real ever introduced? 09:38:53 although people later decided that triple-faulting was easier 09:39:01 Sgeo: yep, that's what the keyboard controller reboot was for 09:39:02 Sgeo: Yes, in 386. 09:39:12 Before that you needed keyboard controller reboot. 09:39:14 I think they added an official method eventually 09:39:18 ais523: 386. 09:39:26 was it triple-faulting, or something else? 09:39:38 Something else, I don't recall what it was off the top of my head. 09:39:54 It was essential to making DPMI reasonable, though. 09:40:01 (triple-faulting: when you have an exception in the exception handler /for/ the exception handler) 09:40:32 IIRC, both Linux and Windows still try the keyboard handler as the final fallback for when they can't find any other way to reboot a machine 09:40:54 I'm pretty sure Linux still has intentional-triple-fault somewhere. 09:41:24 Sgeo: Anyways, the reason why x86 CPUs still support real mode is pretty simple... 09:41:55 pikhq_: Linux's reboot method is actually currently identical to Windows' 09:42:15 they reverse-engineered Windows' methods in the end, rather than trying to follow standards, on the basis that all the hardware manufacturers were only testing with Windows 09:42:17 Sgeo: A CPU, when it starts, needs to start executing at a known address, so the startup code will run, right? 09:42:36 Sgeo: So, waaaay back in 8086, they set that up. So, the BIOS was stuck there. 09:43:03 pikhq_, Linux, IIRC, used an intentional triple fault for rebooting. 09:43:46 Sgeo: And this has never changed, because you would essentially end up creating a CPU with an utterly incompatible boot scheme. 09:44:00 And, for obvious reasons, the BIOS expected to run in real mode. 09:44:17 So, all x86 CPUs support real mode to some extent. 09:44:29 It gets better: EFI systems still start this way, too. 09:44:48 arch/x86/kernel/reboot.c: http://p.zem.fi/st2n 09:44:51 Is it because the CPU expects it? 09:45:11 There's an extra triple-fault fallback at the end. 09:45:12 Sgeo: No, it's because you don't want to make EFI-only CPUs. 09:45:16 Even with a ... I don't know much about EFI other than being an alternative to BIOS 09:45:18 ais523: I'm pretty sure Windows actually complies with standards. 09:45:43 ais523: It's just that merely working with something that complies with standards doesn't mean much. :) 09:45:58 Sgeo: EFI is essentially *just* different startup code. 09:46:29 Instead of the CPU starting at 0x9000 (was that where it starts? I don't even remember) and running the BIOS, it starts at 0x9000 and runs the EFI firmware. 09:46:46 Different enough that the OS needs to expect it? 09:47:09 Well, *yes*, it presents a somewhat different API. 09:47:10 fizzie, what does it mean that I find funny that after the normal shutdown sequence, Linux acts kinda like a human operator kicking on a machine going "Hello?? Why arn't you working?" 09:47:29 Madoka-Kaname, hm? 09:47:41 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:47:53 that's still following standards, but it's pointless, but some real-life hardware actually relies on it doing that 09:47:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:47:57 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 09:48:19 ais523: What I'm trying to say is, it's not *Windows* fault at all. 09:48:28 indeed 09:48:34 it's the hardware manufacturer's fault 09:48:36 for only testing with it 09:48:39 They have perfectly reasonable behavior, the rest of the world is just insane. 09:48:43 it's like screenscraping 09:48:56 you can't really blame the website when it stops working 09:49:27 pikhq_: "The reset vector for the 80386DX and later x86 processors is 0xFFFF0, although the value of the CS register at reset is 0xF000 and the value of the IP register at reset is 0xFFF0. In actuality, current x86 processors fetch from the physical address 0xFFFFFFF0. This is due to a hidden base address portion of the CS register in real mode which defaults to 0xFFFF0000 after reset." 09:49:33 But it was ffff:0000 for 8086. 09:49:37 Sgeo: A handful of things in x86 don't work consistently in all systems; shutdown is one of the big areas. 09:49:45 (I.e. physical ffff0.) 09:50:03 don't confuse x86 with the PC platform 09:50:07 Sgeo: Because of this, Linux basically tries a random smattering of different things. 09:50:29 o.O 09:50:40 there is no reason to expect that all x86 systems would have the same shutdown sequence 09:50:50 Trust me when I say your computer is, at its basis, a pile of hacks. 09:50:51 that's a function of the platform and not the CPU architecture 09:51:02 kmc: you'd expect them to have the same reset vector, though 09:51:14 Yes, but you'd expect all IBM PCs to have the same one. ... Not that it works that way. :) 09:51:24 pikhq_, this is fascinating, I want to learn more about these "hacks" 09:51:46 the osdev wiki has some info 09:51:50 ty 09:52:07 Sgeo: You'd "love" how you figure out the address space map, then. 09:52:15 (fun fact, it was standardised in *2002*.) 09:52:41 Sgeo: write a real mode graphics demo which uses 640x480 resolution and fits in a boot sector 09:53:02 I'm not entirely sure what is referred to by "address space map". Mapping what? 09:53:21 Can't just refer to memory by a single number, I guess? 09:53:21 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:53:30 -!- ais523_ has quit (Changing host). 09:53:30 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:53:44 Sgeo: Some parts of the non-virtualised address space are in use. For instance, there's a chunk of memory dedicated to the BIOS, some to the video framebuffer, some for ACPI... 09:54:05 The kernel needs to know about this so it doesn't allocate over them and break stuff. 09:54:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:54:13 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 09:54:20 Isn't 09:54:26 pikhq_, well, ok. I'm going to guess that it's not as simple as "Anything below this number is reserved stuff"? 09:54:31 Triple fault pretty guaranteed to reset the system? 09:54:39 Madoka-Kaname: not much else it can do 09:54:48 Sgeo: Nowhere *near*. In part because real mode makes that really hard. 09:54:49 ais523, shut it down? 09:55:15 ais523: I'm sure there's *some* processor that has a more or less configurable reset vector. Quite a few let you configure endianness, after all. (Okay, scoped into x86 you'd expect it to be same.) 09:55:20 Sgeo: Some of that reserved stuff is at the high end of the 16-bit address space. 09:55:39 !!Fun!! 09:55:48 Sgeo: Normal real mode programs would run *below* that point, and it was reasonably well-known where the BIOS would be. 09:55:50 Also there's quite a lot of stuff around the one megabyte limit. 09:55:58 http://wiki.osdev.org/Memory_Map_(x86) lists some stuff. 09:56:09 And then, there's anything added later. 09:56:33 It could very well have gotten allocated at random points, because the evolution of the design is *weird*. 09:56:52 There's a hole between 15-16MB, too, for memory-mapped ISA stuff. 09:57:26 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:57:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:36 i learned the other day that the default location for RAM used by System Management Mode is under the VGA framebuffer 09:57:43 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 09:57:52 that is, accesses to those addresses in SMM go to RAM, in other modes they go to VGA hardware 09:58:00 "By far the best way to detect the memory of a PC is by using the INT 0x15, EAX = 0xE820 command. This function is available on all PCs built since 2002" 09:58:02 pikhq_, that? 09:58:17 Sgeo: Yeah. 09:58:35 meanwhile, Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot (although maybe not quite as badly as Yahoo!) with VC++2012 09:58:46 ais523, howso? 09:58:50 you have to pay for the expensive pay version to compile anything but Metro apps 09:58:57 In effect, they're deprecating Win32. 09:59:15 i.e. the only thing keeping Windows at all relevant. 09:59:21 You can check early dmesg for what your own computer's memory map looks like. It'll have a list like http://p.zem.fi/ujz1 10:00:15 ais523, well, there are free compilers for Win32 right? 10:00:50 Everybody just goes on to use mingw32? 10:00:52 Sounds about right 10:01:12 yes; cygwin (produces executables that depend on a GPLed library, deliberately); mingw (produces properly native executables); apparently nowadays also clang 10:02:03 ais523: cygwin can also be used to generate non-cygwin binaries. 10:02:10 In this usage, it's basically mingw, though. 10:02:20 By which I mean "literally". 10:02:32 pikhq_: indeed, and a relatively crippled mingw at that 10:02:39 Really? 10:02:42 That's stupid. 10:04:46 Also "fun" is that ISA is basically still around. 10:04:58 Well, nearly dead, but hey. 10:05:28 nelhage's qemu breakout exploit involves hotplug-removing the emulated ISA bridge 10:05:49 Certain devices are hanging off a bus that looks like the ISA bus to software, and IDE is literally very fast ISA. 10:06:04 Admittedly, IDE is dead or dying. 10:06:24 Many hardware monitoring chips are "ISA" devices. 10:06:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:07:06 $ sensors 10:07:07 it8718-isa-0228 10:07:07 Adapter: ISA adapter 10:07:52 temp3: +85.0°C (low = +127.0°C, high = +112.0°C) sensor = thermal diode 10:07:57 That... Can't be right. 10:08:03 Those things are also such a mess. Everyone wires the resistors differently, lm-sensors configuration files are full of "well, it's this chip, but we need to either multiply this by two or divide it by three depending on which MB it is". 10:08:34 And the labels are mostly guesswork too. 10:08:50 I've just labeled my voltage numbers manually based on which number they're closest to. 10:11:02 They have a rather large wiki of configurations, http://www.lm-sensors.org/wiki/Configurations 10:12:19 Oh, jeeze, yeah... Also, compact flash. 10:12:38 Electrically compatible with ISA and IDE. 10:12:54 And PCMCIA, of course. 10:14:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:14:56 Hey, someone's filed in the Wiki computation rules that might work for my Atom box. That's nice; currently the voltage readings are +1.68, +1.16, +1.50, +0.94, +1.10, +0.82, +0.94, +1.53 and +1.50. Apparently those should be multiplied by 2, 1, 1, 5.255319148, 11, 5.255319148, 2, 2 and 2, respectively, in order to get actual voltages. 10:19:39 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:20:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:20:32 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 10:22:52 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:24:11 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:25:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:25:49 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 10:29:21 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:36:24 OS dev is not a CS subject, right? 10:36:31 So what sort of thing is it? 10:38:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:38:39 "It is a powerful feeling for the only code to be running on a machine to be your own." 10:38:47 What about BIOS/EFI, that's not your own code... 10:41:30 well that isn't running after boot 10:41:40 but SMM is 10:41:57 as is the firmware on hundreds of special purpose controllers all over the motherboard 10:42:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://retroprogramming.com). 10:43:03 Sgeo: it's common for CS programs to have OS courses 10:43:20 kmc, ah 10:43:31 CMU's is supposedly very good 10:43:35 MIT's 6.828 is very good 10:43:36 Do they discuss what things must do on actual hardware? 10:43:40 The course I took did not 10:43:45 in large part 10:44:01 The professor wrote a program in .NET with a simulated CPU 10:44:08 in 6.828 you write substantial parts of an OS that can run on a real PC 10:44:11 We would write algorithms for various things as plugins in C# 10:44:25 kmc, is MIT's course on Open CourseWare or whatever? 10:44:37 some of the more arbitrary details of x86 are dealt with in code that's provided to you 10:44:43 but it is explained and they go into some detail 10:44:56 by the way i recently came across http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html 10:45:02 kmc, I'm stuck in a shitty school 10:45:29 Sgeo: i don't remember if it's formally on OCW... but I had no trouble finding the labs online 10:46:04 i've only done the labs where you work on JOS, the cool "exokernel" OS 10:46:26 "You end up writing code that gets plugged in as part of the simulation rather than as code that executes on the simulated computer." 10:46:37 ^^just said that to my gf explaining what the course is like 10:46:38 i haven't looked at the other parts of the course, like the parts that deal with xv6, which is a UNIX-like OS 10:46:47 Sgeo: that's double lame 10:47:00 at least for something claiming to be an OS course 10:47:08 it would be a good way to approach CPU architecture, though 10:47:18 6.004 is another very cool MIT class 10:47:42 I think the idea was to understand the algorithms behind, say, fixed partitioning memory whatchamacallit 10:47:44 you design a RISC CPU at the level of individual logic gates 10:48:03 kmc, I wish I went to MIT 10:48:12 their simulator is very simple, nowhere near as much complexity as an industrial HDL 10:48:45 but the simulator is specific enough that you can play with timing and try to optimize your design for higher clock speed 10:48:51 Sgeo: I've never been an MIT student 10:48:56 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-828-operating-system-engineering-fall-2006/ 10:48:57 This? 10:49:12 labs are here: http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2011/ 10:49:54 kmc, how are OSDev's tutorials? 10:50:04 dunno 10:50:11 i've just used it as a reference to a few specific things 10:53:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:54:19 "All of the 32-bit registers (EAX, ...) are still usable, by simply adding the "Operand Size Override Prefix" (0x66) to the beginning of any instruction. Your assembler is likely to do this for you, if you simply try to use a 32-bit register." 10:54:27 I guess assemblers aren't as trivial as I thought 10:55:11 assemblers still just do symbol resolution (and much of that's done by the linker nowadays), and convert opcode names into machine code 10:55:17 just there are a /lot/ of opcode names nowadays to convert 10:55:40 "Some OS designers think that it is simpler and cleaner to temporarily return to Real Mode on those occasions when it is necessary to access a BIOS function. " 10:55:55 I... I guess it wasn't simpler and cleaner when the CPU had to be restarted, right? 10:56:06 What OSes do that? 10:58:09 ". Probing memory-mapped PCI devices may have *unpredictable results* and may theoretically *damage your system*, so once again we discourage its use." 11:02:24 x86 assembler's job is actually pretty easy compared to some architectures 11:03:24 Wait what 11:03:48 What architectures have assemblers that need to do significantly more than what amounts to a find and replace? 11:04:13 11:04:40 on ARM a simple "load from immediate" encodes in kind of a complicated way 11:05:03 the assembler might translate it to a load from memory, and put a constant into memory somewhere 11:06:15 also conditionals work totally differently depending on which variant of ARM you're using and which CPU mode it's in 11:06:29 most ARM chips support switching back and forth between at least two instruction sets, ARM and Thumb 11:06:44 so the assembler has to keep track of that as well 11:08:24 also the linker can generate additional instructions as it links, and there's a register reserved for this purpose 11:08:50 (which is not directly a concern for the assembler, however) 11:16:24 Sgeo: on Itanium the potential parallelism between instructions is explicitly encoded in the machine code 11:16:40 and some assemblers can figure this out for you automatically 11:17:36 Does doing that mean more microoptimizations are possible for programmers willing to mess with the machine code, or is it a matter of what will make the chip be faster, or what's the purpose of that design decision? 11:18:31 i think the idea is to have less complex (and therefore, all else equal, faster) hardware 11:18:49 Hmm, also, those computations at assembly-time rather than run-time I guess' 11:19:04 explicitly encode parallelism instead of having the CPU figure it out on the fly 11:19:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLIW 11:19:18 i don't know much about VLIW though 11:19:53 Sadly, I don't think VLIW-architecture compilers have been so incredibly clever after all. 11:20:03 yeah 11:20:19 though VLIW or no, a good compiler still needs to know a lot of microarchitectural details in order to produce good code 11:20:38 it's fun to run the same code through gcc with various settings for -march=... and see what it produces 11:21:44 on Itanium you explicitly encode the parallelism; on x86 you read about how the chip will infer the parallelism and then explicitly arrange instructions so it infers what you wanted ;) 11:29:40 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 11:32:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:39:27 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:40:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:40:51 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:59:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:59:13 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:59:42 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais532. 11:59:46 -!- ais532 has changed nick to ais523. 12:07:33 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:10:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:10:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:21:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:21:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:21:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:26:33 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 12:28:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:47:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:48:43 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:54:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:57:23 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:57:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:57:27 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 13:02:15 http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraGoogle-1193.pdf 13:02:18 beautiful 13:02:34 (it's a scanned-in version of all the questions the jurors asked in oracle v. google) 13:04:54 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:05:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:08:41 How's oragoogle going? Have they decided the copyrightability of API thing yet? 13:09:09 The thing the judge was going to decide by himself. 13:09:43 I guess I can read groklaw myself, though. 13:11:13 "Please provide more notebooks for Phase 2." indeed! 13:11:20 and no, no copyright progress 13:11:25 google won on all the patent allegations 13:17:36 ais523, Smart jury. 13:17:55 yes, now that the full story's coming out it seems that they were 13:18:05 especially if you read one of the interviews with the jury foreman 13:18:16 (who was the only one who did interviews after the trial) 13:18:23 I would like to know how the court case about my ISP blocking Pirate Bay is going. They did it in early January (when someone had managed to dream up a list of DNS names and IP addresses), and the decision itself from the lowest court came in October 2011; IIRC they immediately filed an appeal, but I haven't heard anything about it, even though it's been seven months now. And there's no web ... 13:18:29 ... thing that I know of to follow on these things. 13:20:06 "Can you explain the difference between a package an an API" 13:20:11 I guess they had no programmers. 13:20:30 Then again, if they had even a single programmer, it would likely end VERY quickly. 13:21:03 If they had programmers, they kicked them out. 13:22:14 yep, there were several people who knew about programming in the jury selection pool, who got excluded for one reason or another 13:22:24 (knowing about programming seems to have been enough of a reason to exclude…) 13:22:40 so the jury were selected to not know about the issues in advance 13:22:52 As far as I know, just plain knowing anything about the matter in question is usually a reason enough. 13:23:20 there were also some lawyers in the jury selection pool, they got excluded too 13:23:43 I vaguely wonder why they even bother to put lawyers in the pool, they're basically guaranteed to get excluded from every case 13:23:55 * ais523 much prefers the UK system 13:24:17 where they just take the first 12 random people, unless there's a really obvious reason why they shouldn't be there, like being a relative of the defendant 13:24:23 The jury selection pool is random, neither your profession nor background is relevant until the actual selection process. 13:24:53 Ah, yeah, the very existence of a selection process is somewhat suspect. 13:25:09 It's also specified by law, so they can't just drop people that they thing are likely to be dropped, I suppose. 13:28:04 We don't have much of a jury thing, though the district courts have this "lay judge" people. 13:28:51 I think Sweden is very close, except they have an actual jury system explicitly for libel and press-freedom cases. 13:46:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:47:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:03:34 ais523, I'm not sure I get the logic of that... 14:03:43 It's somehow better to start with people with no prior knowledge of the subject at hand?? 14:06:49 ais523, more notebooks? 14:06:50 Geez... 14:09:07 Is Star Trek: The Animated Series any good? 14:09:56 -!- derdon has joined. 14:14:15 -!- MDude has joined. 14:14:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:19:20 Sgeo, I know it has an episode which is written by Larry Niven which is just a straight copy of one of his short stories but with the Enterprise pasted in. 14:19:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:19:36 Niven... Niven... 14:19:43 Why does the name Larry Niven sound familiar 14:19:44 Which also has the delightful side-effect of welding the Star Trek and Known Space canons. 14:19:53 He's a well-known SF author? 14:22:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:22:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:29:10 i wonder if jury selection is like bfjoust 14:30:01 Sgeo: ... 14:33:28 I think I've heard the name due to Creatures community 14:34:01 There was some sort of text-based game 14:36:19 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:36:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:38:28 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 14:38:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regicides_of_Charles_I 14:38:34 haven't followed the link yet, was just admiring the URL 14:39:52 the page content is disappointing by comparison 14:40:06 The Jury or Juror has the following question: "I'm Sick. Can I get a sick day without being discharged? Sorry." 14:43:10 she was discharged, in order to not hold up the trial, and also because the judge was worried about the illness spreading 14:43:40 I'd hate to miss Jury duty due to being sick 14:45:02 you probably would if you'd already spent two weeks listening to the evidence 14:45:34 I remember the judge talking about the situation the following day (the whole jury'd been dismissed for the afternoon) 14:45:53 i think i could excuse myself from being in a jury 14:46:10 he pointed out that there were three possibilities: he could arrest her and force her to serve (legally), but he thought that was a stupid idea; wait for her (she'd likely take at least a day); or discharge her 14:46:10 so the third option was the only really sane one 14:46:25 you guys have heard me chat.. i don't think it would take much for me to show its a bad idea to have me in there 14:47:29 There's an episode of Becker where the titular character is awaiting jury duty, and decides to bring a book about law with him since to his non-stupid mind that makes sense. At first in the juror interviews he says things like, "in fact, I've been reading a book about law and–" before they dismiss him, but by the end he realizes that even if he just says "book" he'll be dismissed. 14:47:44 Gregor: yes i saw some of this on tv the other week! 14:49:03 i remember the book thing at least 14:49:47 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:50:22 i wonder if discussing jury duty excludes us all from doing jury duty? 14:50:48 probably 14:51:09 Knowing enough about civics to realize that there exists a concept of jury duty excludes you from jury duty. 14:52:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:54:43 i wonder how many of those in the jury subsequently took up programming hobby 14:54:44 -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:55:37 itidus21, I doubt it's zero. 14:56:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:58:25 Hello 14:58:58 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:01:25 with this, i also thought up a new way to set up a school. that if you fail, some anonymous person in the class takes the fall for you. 15:02:03 although such a system could be exploited by those who don't have much morals, it may be highly motivating 15:04:53 itidus21, I'd imagine that at least one took up programming. I'm sure anybody able to fully understand low level stuff like that in the span of 2 weeks would do at least decently 15:04:56 (Was that 2 weeks?) 15:06:46 they were probably motivated to learn by knowing that there were consequences for failing to learn.. i think thats where i bridged the two ideas 15:14:27 with this, i also thought up a new way to set up a school. that if you fail, some anonymous person in the class takes the fall for you. 15:14:28 Anyways 15:14:45 That really depends on the age group 15:14:52 Do I need to say what happens if you try that K-12 or pre-graduate? 15:14:58 (And people will call you super-unfair post-graduate) 15:15:16 i wanted to unpost that after i posted it 15:15:44 i can feel a spirit of fascism in it 15:30:43 I had 3 exams today 16:20:33 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:23:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:32:58 I'm installing a new version of the JVM 16:33:21 And the ad in the installer says Java is installed in 3 billion places, including cell phones 16:39:18 My old phone had it 16:39:55 I was just amused, because of the whole Oracle vs Google over Android thing 16:41:06 That's not counting Android. 16:41:26 Hang on, my new phone has it 16:41:28 Though it is counting the large number of feature phones, which invariably have Java ME. 16:42:57 I don't think either of my middle phones had it? 16:43:04 Not sure, though 16:52:43 Almost surely did. 16:53:17 -!- calamari has joined. 16:54:00 I'm pretty sure the only phones *without* a JVM installed on them in the past decade are Android phones. 16:54:18 I'm sure Windows phones don't have a JVM. 16:54:22 pikhq, iPhone has a JVM? 16:54:28 Yeah, iPhone definitely doesn't. 16:54:38 window phone has JVM? 16:54:54 Okay, apparently smartphones are weirder than I thought. 16:55:11 well featurephones didn't tecnicaly use JVM. they used KVM 16:55:12 I should write an apology to #scheme 16:55:18 I inflicted a clueless person on them 16:55:38 Windows phones are a .NET monstrosity on top of Windows CE, which is of course also a monstrosity. 16:55:56 iPhone is quite fervently against VM languages, except for JavaScript. 16:56:04 (And then only their VM) 16:57:16 Apparently Apple decided to permit Sun to do a port. Sun has not since bothered. 16:57:23 And Oracle is unlikely to. 16:57:40 Mmm. 16:58:03 As they seem to be moving into the lucrative "lawsuit" market. 17:03:28 Man, xz is REALLY slow. 17:04:38 I don't know if its compression ratio is worth its speed. 17:06:14 Wow, although it sure is an impressive compression ratio X-D 17:06:24 Just got a Snowflake root image to 20% original size. 17:09:39 Gregor: I stopped using bzip2 and I just use gzip since it's faster.. slightly bigger but not too much difference between those two anyways 17:10:00 is xz significantly better than bzip2? 17:10:38 * Sgeo puts SICP on his Nook 17:10:50 It's unequivocally better. Whether it's significantly better depends on who you ask, the phase of the moon, ... 17:12:21 ah you can use it on the kernel, that's cool 17:15:11 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GaussianGirl 17:15:18 Most disappointingly-named trope? 17:17:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:18:12 >Named for the Gaussian Blur effect in Adobe Photoshop and imitators. 17:18:14 >imitators 17:19:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:19:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:51:29 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:51:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:58:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 17:58:35 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:00:49 Hello 18:03:35 hi Taneb, FireFly, Gregor 18:03:51 :) 18:12:42 -!- monqy has joined. 18:27:08 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:29:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:29:28 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:29:48 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:30:48 does anyone here know free shell account provider that lets users run ircbots 18:31:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:31:18 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:36:14 -!- SimonRC has joined. 18:38:13 Does it need to be still alive?-) 18:39:56 Or does it count if it is a free shell provider but has an annual-cost membership tier which allows that? 18:40:42 completepy free 18:41:39 Well, I mean, it is still a completely free shell provider (for some users), and it does let (some) users run ircbots, it's just that the two sets of users don't intersect. 18:43:09 it has to let free shell accounts run ircbots 18:43:45 nortti: why not run it from your connection? 18:43:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:45:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:45:37 Song contest? Like #songsincode or something? 18:46:08 Which reminds me, there's still a few days left to enter http://code-poems.com 18:48:15 nortti_: If IPv6-only IRC is okay, I think geekshells.org maybe? Haven't tried, but their front page mentions precompiled eggdrops. 18:48:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:48:59 calamari: freenode requires SASL from users of my ISP 18:49:25 fizzie: well I have my own ircbot coded in python 18:49:37 nortti: what does that mean 18:50:34 calamari: freenode block users of my ISP if their irc client/bots don't use SASL 18:52:33 nortti_: You could get a v6 tunnel and run your IRC thing over that. (It's what I do at the moment, since they started doing that for my ISP too, and the bouncer I've been using doesn't do SASL.) 18:53:09 fizzie: do you also use elisa? 18:53:33 is sasl hard to implement? 18:53:41 what does [calamari VERSION] meaŋ 18:53:46 calamari: yes 18:53:58 I checked your client version 18:54:16 your client responded: -nortti_- VERSION AndroIRC - Android IRC Client (3.3.4 - Build 54a08b6-) - http://www.androirc.com 18:54:17 nortti_: Yes. 18:54:27 wht? 18:54:33 *why? 18:54:39 why not 18:55:29 It's not all *that* hard, based on the length (not terribly long) of the xchat/irssi SASL patches freenode distributes. (Still, it... might be a file before I can manage to do that for fungot.) 18:55:40 s/patches/scripts/ 18:55:43 It's not even a patch. 18:56:41 yeah. but getting it to work is another thing. I have even more reasons to hate perl now 18:56:45 looks like there are a few free sasl implementations for python out there too 18:57:36 calamari: if something under BSD/ISC/MIT/CC0/WTFPL shows up tell me 18:58:39 One of the XChat scripts is in Python. Though admittedly it's GPL'd and they say it's broken by some Debian/Ubuntu patch, which is kinda weird. 18:59:34 yeah. I don't really like GPL <=2 and hate GPL 3 19:00:10 must work for microsoft 19:00:32 nope. They are jusr toi restrictive 19:01:08 nah 19:01:42 I was fan of GPL but nowadays I use WTFPL 19:04:24 Also I think that calling linux distr 19:04:41 +os GNU/linux distros is stupid 19:05:17 next step: FSF says linux has to be called stalmaniz 19:26:13 calling it GNU/Linux is not a matter of politics, just basic correctness 19:26:30 i frequently have occasion to talk about GNU tools on other kernels, as well as other userland on Linux 19:29:34 well then it kinda makes sense but calling distro that has gcc+binutils as only gnu software GNU/Linux is stupid 19:29:57 People DON'T call distros that have only gcc+binutils GNU/Linux. 19:30:01 Because of that matter of basic correctness. 19:30:08 most "Linux distros" have a lot more GNU software than that 19:30:30 this is exactly *why* FSF cares what you call it! 19:30:34 That's actually the most compelling reason to use the term, to disambiguate the vast majority of distros from those few unique ones. GNU/Linux = GNU userland, Android is not GNU/Linux. 19:31:09 because you're ignoring many of their contributions 19:31:55 Gregor: they don't? explain SliTaz GNU/Linux 19:32:30 what libc does SliTaz use? 19:32:33 what coreutils? 19:33:11 kmc: glibc, busybox. and it doesn't include gcc and binutils on normal install 19:33:28 so they use glibc 19:33:50 glibc is a pretty major component, already on its way to being quite reasonably "GNU/" 19:35:07 you don't have to like GNU project, but refusing to acknowledge their contributions as a way to stick it to RMS is just churlish 19:35:23 it is a major component but still just one component. Should I call my distro jmld MUSL/Linux 19:35:32 * ion looks up “churlish”. 19:35:33 if you like 19:36:04 nortti_: If you're only using gcc and binutils, you're about as GNU as BSD. :) 19:36:16 nortti_: I don't care if you do or not 19:36:35 but if I see someone in another channel call it "MUSL/Linux" i'm not going to be like "hey call it Linux, fuck that nortti_ guy" 19:37:43 kmc: I have nothing against them. I just don't like their licenses and that they want everyone to call every linux distro containing even a tiny bit of GNU software GNU/Linux 19:39:59 I probably would find it perfectly reasonable for SliTaz to call themselves something else. They're at best a border case. But it's not at all ambiguous for the vast, vast majority of distros. 19:43:59 -!- impomatic has left. 19:45:12 well if you really want to call linux distro that has gcc+binutils+gnu coreutils+glibc GNU/Linux go for it but I still think it is kinda stupid. If it had something like 25% of software made by GNU I would use GNU/Linux 19:45:25 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:45:43 it's dumb to put a number on it 19:45:54 the point is, i recognize the contribution of GNU, and I personally choose to acknowledge it 19:46:06 i'm not going to like go into #ubuntu and yell at them all for saying "Linux" 19:47:16 -!- monqy has joined. 19:47:21 i'm not going to pick a fight, as RMS would, and as you did 19:47:57 you know recognizing GNU's contribution to open source software does not require agreeing with every crazy thing the FSF says 19:48:01 i don't even particularly like the GPL 19:48:18 ny distro is GNU/Busybox/MUSL/Linux 19:50:59 but yeah. they have done much good for open source but also mach bad for it 19:51:33 I still think there is more good things they have done 19:52:28 i can't see the big picture.. just how good is the best unix system? 19:52:39 5 good 19:53:03 (sees the answer but add sthis anyway) that the free alternative takes this much work 19:53:17 or is not as good 19:53:55 is gnu/linux not as good as the best existing unix? 19:54:17 depends on what you're doing 19:54:18 Well it depends on how good the best unix is 19:54:20 such a mysterious question 19:54:26 I'd say Linux is something like a 17 19:54:29 On the standard goodness scale 19:54:34 hummm 19:54:43 it's a mysterious question because it's a stupid question ;P 19:54:45 why would anyone even pay for unix anymore then? 19:54:50 things aren't ranked according to a clear goodness scale 19:55:31 maybe for privacy i guess 19:56:06 bit offtopic but original unixen are free currently 19:56:10 Lumpio-, out of what? 19:56:10 maybe i should look these things up and not ask the dumb questions 19:57:24 if by "GNU/Linux" you mean that you compile upstream sources and run those, then it's a disaster for security 19:57:25 Phantom_Hoover: I said, on the standard scale 19:57:38 the Linux kernel devs don't even keep track of which commits are security-relevant 19:57:43 in fact I think they deliberately obfuscate it 19:57:45 That's like asking 19:58:01 "out of what?" when somebody tells you it's 16 o'clock 19:58:07 you need a distribution to keep track of security, and to backport security fixes so you don't need a full upgrade 19:58:34 and based on paying a lot of attention to this for a while, Red Hat does a much better job than any of the distros you can get for free 20:01:33 hm... 20:01:58 and CentOS will get you those updates for free, but only after months of delay 20:02:29 someone who was born in the year 2000 will have some confusion over why their world is linux mac and windows 20:02:36 i feel sorry for them 20:03:22 itidus21: what do yo mean? 20:03:32 it wouldn't make much sense 20:05:14 why would it make more sense for people not born in year 2000? 20:06:45 i mean it won't occur to them that windows is an attempt to cash in on the idea of GUI, and linux and/or GNU/linux is a free(or freer?) version of some programmers workbench(wiki) 20:07:01 they would just have to invent their own idea of what linux and windows are 20:07:39 you are barely coherent 20:09:25 itidus21: occured for my little sister born in 2000 and for me born in 1997 20:09:42 nortti_: you were born in 1997? 20:10:00 yes 20:10:03 jesus 20:10:10 what? 20:10:14 i feel old 20:10:39 when were you born? 20:11:05 Whoa, a post-Windows 95 birth is kinda weird, yes. 20:12:03 why? 20:12:09 nortti_: 1988 20:12:11 It just is. 20:12:13 almost 10 years before you 20:12:22 Also I feel old when younger people say "I feel old", like now. 20:12:27 Let's form a 1988 club 20:12:31 Bein' born like it's the 80s 20:12:49 Being born is so 80s, no-one gets born nowadays. 20:15:13 fizzie: shaddap, whippersnapper 20:15:25 oerjan: I was kind of waiting for that. 20:15:28 is there some simple replacement for /dev/dsp? 20:15:46 how so? you want to send raw PCM data to the sound card? 20:15:51 look at sox and play 20:16:38 kmc: yeah.. it's kinda sad that ability is gone now 20:16:42 Alternatively, if you have code written for a /dev/dsp, 'padsp' LD_PRELOAD-emulates it with Pulse. 20:18:45 what do you mean by gone and when? 20:20:15 nortti_: gone meaning /dev/dsp no longer exists 20:20:49 from since when? Slitaz seems to still have it 20:21:13 I should read SICP at some point 20:22:42 why did the remove it? I still want to be able to drive other people crazy with find / > /dev/dsp 20:24:06 a great loss to harassment technology 20:30:10 calamari: Beat Linux devs a bit. 20:30:14 Cause ALSA suuucks. 20:30:29 sound on linux :D 20:31:19 I have never had problem with it. but then again I have only used IBMs and POMIs 20:35:40 nortti: well its weird cos when i was young 8bit NES was this exciting thing.. and infact the first game we got for it was pinball.. and stayed up all night playing that.. 20:36:04 the next day xmas day our relatives had been told about this NES thing we have so were able to get even more games 20:36:10 it was a very whoa kind of day 20:36:41 up till that point most exciting possession would have been the slotcars 20:42:01 as for operating systems, i had some version of dos with qbasic1.0 included, then windows 3.1, we probably had win 95 i can't even remember, then win98SE, 20:42:56 and video games, i had pretty much stopped playing them by the time your sister born :-D 20:44:53 itidus21: My first computer was also DOS machine (well it also had win95 but after I learned how to use dos I preferred CLI over GUI. 20:47:54 I have always been hanging around the low ens 20:47:59 &end 20:48:12 s/&/*/ 20:49:55 -!- elliott has joined. 20:56:29 Sgeo: you should :) 20:56:50 /dev/dsp was never a great interface 20:56:57 you have to use ioctls to set the sample rate etc. 20:57:01 you can copyright a db schema, right? 20:57:02 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:57:10 in that sense, piping to 'play' is more convenient 20:57:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 20:57:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:58:38 09:04:31: well, it makes some sort of sense to have the key with the rest of the source on their dev machines, because it's part of what you need to actually build and release the extension 20:58:53 I disagree, developers shouldn't have access to an important production-use private key... 20:59:08 ah, it's a chrome-extension-signing key 20:59:11 well, I stand by that, still 20:59:48 "Also note the second Yahoo! employee reply right after the OP, who goes by the name: "?" - likely an abbreviation for "Yahoo?"." 20:59:52 wooooooooah 21:00:04 dude 21:00:30 09:08:01: but still, a valid private key for Yahoo! is the sort of thing that criminals would find quite valuable 21:00:34 well, it's not /that/ valuable 21:00:54 all it lets you do is write a browser extension that people think Yahoo wrote for the next 5 minutes before Google special-case it 21:01:16 09:11:15: -!- cheater has joined #esoteric. 21:01:16 09:11:15: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +b cheater*!*@*.adsl.alicedsl.de 21:01:16 09:11:15: -!- ChanServ has kicked cheater from #esoteric: User is banned from this channel 21:01:21 talk about persistent 21:02:21 09:38:52: Was a way to go protected -> real ever introduced? 21:02:27 Sgeo: yes, and you can use it for "unreal mode" 21:02:39 "In x86 computing, unreal mode, also big real mode, huge real mode, or flat real mode, is a variant of real mode, in which one or more data segment registers have been loaded with 32-bit addresses and limits." 21:05:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:12:39 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:13:20 http://images.4chan.org/vg/src/1337824725371.png 21:18:51 10:36:24: OS dev is not a CS subject, right? 21:18:51 10:36:31: So what sort of thing is it? 21:18:54 software engineering? 21:23:36 Is "interiour" a valid spelling in any dialcet? 21:23:37 *dialect 21:23:53 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/interiour Apparently. 21:24:25 intereour 21:24:34 British spelling is so complicated even Brits don't know how to do it. 21:24:50 Actually, in this case it's Australian English. 21:25:02 Australiuan 21:25:12 Commonwealth spelling is so complicated even Brits don't know how to do it. 21:27:52 interious decouration 21:28:28 woops 21:28:44 Meant to post that somewhere else. 21:29:29 Someone wrote a Scheme interpreter in LSL 21:29:48 I should totally just fix it up to be usable for general scripts in SL 21:32:59 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:36:36 hey kmc! 21:36:38 "I need a map which can contain arbitrary values as long as their types are of the same typeclass." 21:36:59 The joke is that they don't actually want that. 21:37:03 Oh 21:37:10 I already thought of a solution 21:37:43 Well, "I" and "thought" are slight exaggerations 21:44:43 -!- MSleep has joined. 21:46:24 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:47:37 lol.. 21:49:18 "interiour" 21:49:22 Are you kidding me X-D 21:50:37 for just kidding we might also say just joshing. i dunno which country that originates but its used in australia 21:50:50 Gregor: It's in Crawl's los.cc :P 21:51:14 itidus21: "Joshing" in that meaning was not uncommon in the US a few decades ago. 21:51:30 top result says 21:51:32 ""Just joshing you" came from the late 1800's and has a very interesting story behind it! Josh Tatum was a deaf mute, but a very enterprising young man from the" 21:51:35 In fact, I can point to a line in MLP that uses it, and that's Canadian ;) 21:53:07 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_term_just_joshing_you_come_from 21:53:14 thats a pretty cool story 21:55:38 * oerjan considers asking the obvious question 22:08:58 Ok why TF is a stupid wrapper around an HTML renderer taking up so much memory 22:10:49 [...] HTML renderer [...] memory 22:11:36 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:12:19 -!- elliott has joined. 22:14:35 incidentally the answer to the obvious question was "yes". 22:16:01 (i didn't even have to google, just follow a couple of links) 22:27:15 what was the obvious question. 22:27:37 "is that answer joshing us?" 22:28:06 ah. 22:28:59 specifically, the term is older than the events in the story, whether or not the story is true. 22:29:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:39:14 oerjan: i'm sad the story isn't true 22:39:18 :'( 22:40:39 * oerjan gives elliott a lollipop 22:40:50 <-- so upset 22:40:52 ------O 22:41:48 looks more like a staff 22:47:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:50:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:51:10 A staff of lollipop. 22:51:17 hi elliott 22:51:46 *A +1 staff of lollipop. 22:52:57 A -O staff of lollipop. 22:53:26 * elliott wished for 99 blessed greased fixed +42 staffs of lollipop 22:53:32 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:55:59 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:08:54 -!- kwertii has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:12:02 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:12:02 -!- kwertii has quit (Changing host). 23:12:02 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:15:13 shachaf: http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nethack.alt.org&curid=2459&diff=78074&oldid=74669 23:15:18 shachaf: NOW YOU'RE EVEN MORE FAMOUS. 23:20:44 ZOMG 23:20:46 HI ELLIOTT 23:23:42 Patashu: What do quarterstaves of speed do? 23:24:15 they're like quarterstaves, 23:24:17 but faster 23:24:27 monqy: should i use a +2,+1 quarterstaff of speed 23:24:30 im ddak that's going to cast spelles 23:24:35 and also i have an axe 23:24:54 i think speed is something like 2x speed but in dcss at least they have slightly nerfed damage uhh 23:25:06 i think also in dcss qstaves got buffed though so 23:25:09 a - a +2,+2 dwarven hand axe (weapon) 23:25:09 g - a +2,+1 quarterstaff of speed 23:25:10 uhh 23:25:11 `choices' 23:25:16 i'd use the qstaff 23:25:19 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: choices': not found 23:25:20 unless it's worse 23:25:47 Maybe I should be a DDAK stabber. 23:25:52 Who also does spells. 23:28:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: choices': not found 23:28:45 Whoaaaaaaah 23:28:46 So deep 23:35:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:29 wtf http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/gjesteserie/morketid/ (i don't _think_ you need to understand the text...) 23:44:36 anyway let that be a warning to everyone to do careful testing of their time travel devices. 23:46:21 monqy: DID YOU HEAR THAT 23:46:26 monqy: I'M FAMOUS? 23:46:32 yes 23:46:33 oerjan: U+261D 23:46:44 wat 23:46:55 DID YOU HEAR THAT I'M FAMOUS? 23:47:32 WHITE UP POINTING INDEX? THAT'S RACIST 23:48:13 oerjan: Unicode doesn't have BLACK UP POINTING INDEX. :-( 23:48:52 unicode is racist, check 23:50:38 For some reason it has BLACK LEFT POINTING INDEX and BLACK RIGHT POINTING INDEX, but not UP or DOWN. 23:50:40 That's so weird. 23:50:50 ☺ ☻ 23:51:07 Gregor: AND RACIST 23:51:52 😱 23:51:57 -!- elliott has left. 23:53:26 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 23:55:09 why are you famous shachaf 23:55:23 kmc: Ask elliott. 23:55:29 16:15 shachaf: http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nethack.alt.org&curid=2459&diff=78074&oldid=74669 23:55:31 16:15 shachaf: NOW YOU'RE EVEN MORE FAMOUS. 2012-05-25: 00:03:35 ☹ 00:06:13 Gregor: there probably wasn't room for both, so they made room for WHITE UP POINTING INDEX 00:08:06 also theres WHITE FROWNING FACE but no BLACK FROWNING FACE 00:08:16 lebensraum, as they say 00:09:19 WHITE CLUB SUIT and WHITE SPADE SUIT they had room for 00:15:03 distraction!: http://i.imgur.com/ZgKOb.jpg 00:32:05 -!- qfr has quit (*.net 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get it work better) 01:13:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:13:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:17:19 -!- madbr has joined. 01:17:25 I have written some thing on here in past, I thought about discardable functor and commutative applicative, now I also have idempotent applicative. 01:25:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:25:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:26:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:27:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:32:06 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 01:32:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:38:54 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:45:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:46:03 Have you played Super Bat Puncher (for NES/Famicom)? 01:53:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:53:06 thats why i like the japanese... thats why i like the NES... thats why i like the word Super 01:53:24 because even though i have no idea what Super Bat Puncher is.. 01:53:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:55:22 The game is good quality (especially the secret level) but it is not yet completed being made. You can download a demo, however. 02:01:32 oh then it must be a homebrew thing 02:04:23 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:04:27 Yes 02:05:15 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:36:45 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:46:06 -!- MDude has joined. 02:55:11 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 02:55:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:01:41 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:02:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:07:43 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:03 What is esoteric song contest? 03:14:40 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 03:14:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:15:40 -!- Algo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:54:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:17:08 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 04:37:16 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:35 Heralds don't pun; they cant. 04:43:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:48:48 -!- TodPunk has joined. 04:49:39 Why did they change mathNEWS to make it slower and more confusing? 04:50:17 It makes it difficult to read and understand, and difficult to find the current issue, too 05:33:49 -!- qfr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:34:47 -!- qfr has joined. 05:48:26 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 06:08:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:15 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 06:10:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:12:38 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:14:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:18:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:23:44 Free (CoYoneda f) is *always* a monad regardless of what f is 06:26:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 06:30:08 -!- mr^swiFt has joined. 06:33:44 -!- mr^swiFt has left. 07:10:13 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:12:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:13:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:13:31 ?messages 07:13:32 You don't have any new messages. 07:19:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:45:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:49:19 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:49:46 -!- elliott has joined. 07:49:51 http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QW-MICRO-TREX&Category_Code=QW 07:49:52 he;lp 07:54:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:54:42 http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QW-MICRO-TREX&Category_Code=QW 07:54:44 taneb 07:54:45 assist 07:54:47 assist!!! 07:54:51 Hello 07:54:53 Aaargh 07:55:01 Buy 07:55:50 ;_; 07:55:54 i cant buy because 07:56:00 if i open the page again 07:56:02 ill be paralyse 07:56:18 If you give me your address and bank details, I'll buy one for you 07:56:19 :) 07:56:54 Go and read Guillaume Joseph Hyacinthe Jean-Baptiste Le Gentil de la Galaisière’s biography. :-D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Le_Gentil 07:58:50 elliott, alternate solution: disable images in your browser 07:59:47 ion: heh 08:02:18 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:04:48 how to be confused: read http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2197 before http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2196 08:06:20 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:41:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:41:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:41:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:42:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:48:36 Two spammers on Esolang today. 08:48:50 What gives me satisfaction is that every single time we get spammed, someone had to learn something about esolangs to do it. 08:50:31 * pikhq carpe noctem 08:50:44 hi 09:00:52 what, do you have an esolang captcha? 09:01:02 Yes, actually 09:01:54 elliott, what's the captcha? 09:01:57 Or something could be broken, allowing the spammers to get through without doing the captcha 09:02:12 Madoka-Kaname: Try and edit a page logged out to see :P 09:02:26 Sgeo: ConfirmEdit being broken would be pretty hilarious. 09:02:34 Sgeo: But no, I know that isn't happening. 09:02:48 Web server logs prove it, unless they're using advanced NLP and faking a real browser. 09:02:57 Also the spam rate would be much higher if it could also get through automated. 09:04:29 elliott, that is an evil captcha.. 09:04:37 Make it better and ask general programming questions 09:04:40 How is it evil? 09:04:44 (And there are multiple.) 09:05:35 What would be *evil* is gluing "prove P=NP" to a proof verifier. 09:05:56 Madoka-Kaname: Seriously, I don't get what's evil about it. 09:06:06 Trivia questions. 09:06:06 XP 09:06:27 Madoka-Kaname: ...well, so? 09:06:28 pikhq, is that for banned people? 09:06:48 "You need to be at least this smart to edit (arrow pointing at Deep Thought)" 09:06:54 Madoka-Kaname: Sure, why not. 09:07:12 But what if P!=NP 09:07:32 Prove that either P=NP or P!=NP 09:07:36 Hmm, I need to rephrase that. 09:07:58 Prove either that P=NP, or that P!=NP. 09:08:10 Madoka-Kaname: You did notice the links, right? 09:08:13 Sgeo: Then they don't get to edit. 09:08:15 :) 09:08:39 I did 09:08:48 *shrug* 09:09:00 I don't want an evil CAPTCHA, but I still don't really see how it's evil. 09:09:40 I guess 09:09:45 elliott, no. 09:09:46 Evil would be 09:09:49 Giving a language sample 09:09:53 And asking "what language is this"? 09:10:34 Choose between INTERCAL, Brainfuck, Underload, Befunge, ///, and Unlambda 09:11:05 Isn't practically any text with matching square brackets valid brainfuck 09:11:13 s/practically // 09:11:37 Taneb, I don't mean "valid as" 09:11:39 I mean "works as" 09:11:49 Taneb: It *may* hit undefined behavior, but yes. 09:11:57 (namely, walking off the left edge of the tape) 09:12:03 Aw, now I want to write a brainfuck-Underload-///-Befunge polyglot 09:12:12 do so 09:12:13 The /// part sounds hard 09:13:06 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:13:16 ^bf +. 09:13:24 There is a game on X-BIT called BATGUY, you have to select to pursue on foot, go by car, by helicopter, gun, climb wall, bazooka, send in Robin, or bet money. But everything goes wrong, there is a bomb in the helicopter, you eat the burger too much and cannot drive, trip over the ground, what else.... 09:13:42 ^ul (test)S 09:13:42 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:13:48 He sometimes chases the wrong guy 09:13:49 Where is the bot? 09:13:50 :< 09:15:12 fizzie: fungot 09:15:24 fizzie, plz fungot 09:18:52 How does Befunge behave on unknown characters? 09:18:59 93 or 98 09:19:03 Both 09:19:07 i dunno check 09:19:09 Either 09:19:12 Which is your favourite 09:20:00 Everyone has really bad aim... flying into Superman, blowing up the mayor's car, trip on the boots, the team trying to work together instead just collides and fall down, the ropes break, the engines break, they don't understand that the "R" stands for Reverse not Robin 09:20:47 In 98, they behave like "r" 09:22:45 Why do you keep pointing the bazooka backward? 09:28:26 Taneb: In 98 they reverse, in 93 it's undefined but canonically they're noöps 09:28:38 I like what 98 does 09:29:00 (Although I haven't read the '93 spec that closely so maybe it is defined there somewhere.) 09:30:11 -!- fungot has joined. 09:32:25 There "U" go. 09:32:55 Taneb, I assume you've seen the recent update? 09:33:05 Probably 09:33:20 ^bf_textgen brainfuck 09:34:11 That's not a fungot command. 09:34:12 fizzie: it's provably perfect, and i'd need to arrange it so that each new invocation doesn't hammer the log site... 09:34:40 !bf_txtgen brainfuck 09:34:45 ​100 ++++++++++++++[>+>+++++++>++++++++><<<<-]>>.>++.<-.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.<----. [584] 09:34:51 ...egobot 09:35:34 fungot: It's also not provably perfect, at least if the measure of perfection is program length. 09:35:35 fizzie: and what fnord of associative array?' is that? 09:35:56 What fnord of associative array indeed. 09:36:45 elliott: "the expression problem" is annoying. :-( 09:37:01 shachaf: Why is it in quotes? 09:37:12 10:32 There "U" go. 09:37:21 fizzie: It's made me happy "4" me, so "thx" "go" "2" "u". 09:37:44 elliott: Because that allows me not to take responsibility for the name. 09:37:58 I don't think you understand how the use-mention distinction works. 09:38:06 "The 'Expression Problem'" would have been correct, though. 09:38:11 But you can't include the "the" like that. 09:38:19 Yes I can. 09:38:24 Quotes are way overloaded in English. 09:38:33 That's just that which makes that statement which you said incorrect, and that is just that which makes that confusing.. 09:38:35 This is a standard and perfectly valid use. 09:38:39 s/\.\.$/./ 09:38:51 shachaf: "The expression problem" does not seem standard at all to me. 09:38:54 I wish they weren't so overloaded, but since they are, I might as well enjoy it. 09:39:01 "The 'expression problem'" would have parsed fine. 09:39:12 And, anyway, that's a name. 09:39:26 The *name* of the thing is "the expression problem". 09:39:31 No, it's not. 09:39:32 It doesn't deserve a definite article. 09:39:44 Proof by Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem 09:39:45 I ain't gonna give it a definite article. 09:39:53 I'm not quoting Wikipedia. 09:39:55 There's your definite article. 09:40:04 @slap elliott 09:40:05 I don't perform such side effects on command! 09:40:21 The *point* is that it's annoying. 09:40:28 Do you have a solution for it? 09:40:49 My position is that it illustrates a fundamental dichotomy between two styles of programming and is inherently (and fairly simply) unsolvable by definition. 09:41:21 I don't care how you solve it. You can use a definition or an example or something else. 09:41:25 I just want it solved. :-( 09:41:28 I said it was inherently unsolvable. 09:41:50 It's not a problem which can be solved. 09:42:51 Next you'll reduce it to the halting problem. 09:43:24 No. 09:43:35 elliott: Rice's theorem is a good theorem. 09:43:39 Yes. 09:43:50 I can tell you why the expression problem is unsolvable, if you'd like. 09:44:01 * shachaf is tired. 09:44:04 Oh! Tell me. 09:45:07 OK, so the basic thing is: You can either define a union type, and write functions by discriminating on each case; this lets you add more behaviour (functions), but not more data (union elements). 09:45:09 Or, 09:45:17 (>++++++[>+++++++<-]<++++++[>++++++++<-]>->[[.<]>[>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<])!(*)S(/*)(~(*)*:S~:^):^ 09:45:17 Wee 09:45:25 Brainfuck / Underload polygot 09:45:29 You can define a product type with the implementations of the behaviour as the fields. 09:45:31 Now to add in something that isn't trivial 09:45:35 Slashes? 09:45:39 This lets you add more data, but not more behaviour. 09:46:07 You can't do both, because what would it mean to add more data when there is existing behaviour? You would have to specify the result for every single behaviour on your new piece of data. 09:46:20 And since the whole point is that new behaviour can be added at will, this isn't possible. 09:46:36 And what would it mean to add new behaviour when there is existing data? You would, again, have to supply the behaviour for all the existing data, which is impossible for the same reasons. 09:46:52 I think all you've specified is the problem itself. :-) 09:47:04 shachaf: Not really? 09:47:11 I described the problem, and then told you why you can't do it. 09:47:21 Hmm... 09:47:22 Is there 09:47:23 shachaf: Consider that the expression problem was first discussed in the context of a purported solution. 09:47:30 Even a clean way to make a slashes/Underload polygot? 09:47:43 My understanding of that solution is that it is not really a solution at all. 09:47:52 I don't know what that solution is. 09:48:04 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~madst/tool/papers/expression.txt 09:48:10 What you described is the thing that one immediately thinks about when one hears about the problem. 09:48:14 And then one gets annoyed. 09:48:28 It has a lot of distraction about recompiling and static type-safety and so on. 09:48:33 shachaf: I don't get annoyed. 09:48:43 Oh. 09:48:48 shachaf: Actually I find it a very enlightening description of the essence of OOP vs. functional programming. 09:49:02 And going over the fundamental trade-off is a good way to decide which is appropriate in each case. 09:49:24 Type classes vs. sum types in Haskell are in some sense a similar thing. 09:49:46 shachaf: I dislike your bringing of typeclasses into it. 09:49:54 I very specifically phrased my description with normal data types. 09:50:07 data Behaviour = Behaviour { doThing :: Int -> IO (), zapBangName :: String } 09:50:20 data Data = A Int | B String String [FilePath] | C Octagon 09:50:26 a :: Int -> Behaviour 09:50:40 Well, OK. 09:50:40 a n = Behaviour { doThing = \m -> print (n + m), zapBangName = show n } 09:50:45 doThingData :: Data -> Int -> IO () 09:50:53 doThingData (A n) m = print (n + m) 09:50:53 and so on. 09:51:15 shachaf: It's important to do it this way, because the two approaches are on equal footing; they're both types. 09:51:36 This doesn't have that much to do with OOP, though. 09:51:45 I disagree! 09:51:52 To me, things like Behaviour are the very essence of OOP. 09:52:11 Haskell is great at OOP. 09:53:36 shachaf: So what is OOP, if not encoding things as behaviour? 09:53:49 I don't know. 09:53:57 An acronym. 09:54:10 The first three letters of a not-very-good pop song 09:54:17 (There you'll be with your "use-mention distinction" again.) 09:54:31 Taneb: What are the other letters? 09:54:44 SIDIDITAGAIN 09:55:07 MR. SIDIDITA GAIN 09:55:22 (That's pronounced "GAÏN".) 09:56:44 * shachaf needs to goto sleep; 09:57:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:59:38 hi Phantom_Hoover 09:59:55 shachaf: Anyway, I've given up on solving things. 10:00:09 elliott, solve the eurozone crisis 10:00:15 Taneb: No. 10:00:22 Then solve the eurovision crisis (i.e., why does the UK suck at it) 10:00:29 By "eurozone crisis", do you mean "everywhere crisis"? 10:00:33 "We want to make it easy to add either rows or columns." 10:00:34 About some of these kind of things, there is the Typeable class in Haskell which can sometimes help too 10:00:36 Isn't the obvious solution... 10:00:45 elliott, slightly, yeah 10:00:47 Functional features in an OO language? It's not like the two have any basic conflict. 10:00:59 Madoka-Kaname: That only lets you choose which you can add on a case-by-case basis. 10:01:09 i.e. for each type. 10:01:20 The idea is to be able to add both to any type. 10:01:20 BYOB blends the two in a language aimed at children 10:01:57 (it's what you get when you mix Logo, Lisp, and JavaScript, essentially) 10:02:06 and JAVASCRIPT 10:02:07 ?? 10:02:08 o.o 10:02:20 That's where it gets it's OO from. 10:02:23 Prototype based 10:02:34 elliott, I see. 10:04:18 zzo38, I was thinking about Prelude.Generalize this morning, which is probably a bad idea 10:05:55 Thinking is a bad idea? 10:08:01 Yes. 10:09:27 Taneb: What idea did you think of, about it? 10:09:48 unchurch :: Peanoid a => ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> a 10:09:56 unchurch f = f succP zeroP 10:09:57 Peanoid? 10:09:58 Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 10:10:31 Taneb: OK 10:12:35 Also; instance Peanoid ((a -> a) -> a -> a) where zeroP = const id; succP = (<*>) (.) 10:13:34 Taneb: OK, maybe 10:14:17 (this makes church a specialization of transPeano, I think) 10:14:26 what the fuck!? freenode let my bot in! I love freenode 10:14:37 nortti, you have a bot? 10:14:49 fizzie: elisa seems to be no more blocked 10:14:58 Taneb: yes. on #esoteric-en 10:15:47 It doesn't seem possible to make it to add rows and columns to any type; but there are ways to do something close for specific purposes, one thing is object-oriented but there are other things too, possibly some things in "extensible-data" package might help in some cases, and maybe other uses of Typeable class such as: data Xyz where { Xyz :: forall x. XyzClass x => x -> Xyz; } deriving Typeable; class Typeable x => XyzClass x where { ... }; 10:16:26 nortti: So it seems. 10:18:39 How can it be completely possible in any programming language? 10:19:03 It seems there must be some kind of restriction, either rows, columns, or uses. 10:26:06 I, too, have a unrelated problem: I need to figure out what words to use to lead the chancellor into the trap in the Dungeons&Dragons game. 10:26:56 "Oi! Chancellor! Come in 'ere if you think you're hard enough, matey!" 10:28:28 Best is also if we can get him to reveal where he hid the king, before he arrives. 10:30:44 Maybe the chancellor is Yakra, and the real one is in a chest. 10:31:01 "Oi! Chancellor! We've found you're kingy, he was hidden in a real lame place! Come in here if you think you're hard enough, ya lame no-life!" 10:31:07 http://www.reddit.com/r/scheme/comments/s8buc/monad_egg_for_chicken_scheme_released/ 10:31:08 Yakra? 10:31:16 Please tell me that Mr. [deleted] is not the author of the egg 10:31:47 Real one of what? 10:32:14 i like the part where their monad is a functor 10:33:01 The linked page looks correct at least, but maybe someone fixed the page... who knows what's with the code 10:33:38 Yakra impersonates the chancellor twice in Chrono Trigger. 10:33:59 O, that is what it is. 10:34:59 I should learn Scheme macros at some point 10:36:33 Ah, but which Scheme macros? Syntax-rules, or syntax-case? 10:36:45 No I think it is the real chancellor but he is a bad person and has done bad things. My intention is make him dead without letting anyone know he is dead, but first require his autograph, so that I can compare his handwriting with the other handwriting. I already found the dummy 10:36:49 Or the defmacro-alikes found in many Scheme implementations? 10:36:50 fizzie, whichever 10:36:52 SO MANY MACRO SYSTEMS. 10:37:04 elliott, thanks for encouraging my decision paralysis :( 10:37:23 I ... think I'm going to try to stick with Chicken for a while unless there's a good reason not to 10:37:33 zzo38, crossdess and lure him into a honey trap? 10:37:38 Sgeo: i have completely given up on influencing your behaviour in any way 10:37:41 Although laziness in trying to set it up my stymie 10:37:47 Taneb: I do not understand. 10:37:48 might stymie me 10:37:57 *crossdress 10:38:08 Utlilize his libido against him 10:39:00 im just going to /clear instead of reading the context to that 10:39:19 Well, Chicken has syntax-rules and a low-level defmacroish macro system built in, and a syntax-case egg, so just sticking with it doesn't really help when it comes to selecting a macro system. 10:39:21 Taneb: I doubt I can do any of those things 10:39:57 zzo38, how good is your charisma? 10:40:22 18 10:40:24 Though I suppose the syntax-case egg is for version 3. 10:40:35 fizzie, it helps when it comes to selecting a Scheme 10:40:55 IT WILL WORK PERFECTLY 10:41:06 All the information about the game is available on my computer and can be accessed by internet 10:42:34 Changing my dress is unlikely to help 10:42:52 What if you get him drunk first? 10:43:07 fizzie, if they're all part of the same Scheme, then I just choose whichever I need in the specific situation, right? 10:43:31 Are code-walkers easier in Scheme than CL? 10:43:48 I think you completely fail to understand the situation... I need to tell him something remotely; we cannot see each other or touch each other before he arrives 10:44:03 Okay 10:44:25 I'm out, then 10:45:09 I may need some scrolls of Locate Creature too 10:45:31 I've never actually played DnD 10:45:40 I've got a player's handbook for some reason 10:45:49 What version? 10:45:56 4th ed 10:46:07 I am playing 3.5ed. I don't like 4th ed 10:46:12 Why am I ignoring Racket? 10:48:04 Taneb: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex 10:48:54 About the Scheme interpreter in LSL 10:48:55 "There are still scheme features that are not implimented. Among these are the following: - There is no way to define macros. - There are no floating point numbers. - Procedures must be created using lambda. It is not possible to write (define (square x) (* x x)) - There is no such thing as a dotted pair! *gasp* - Cond, Let, Display have not been defined." 10:49:00 That is the current situation in the game. 10:49:10 (My character is Kjugobe) 10:49:41 I'm not likely to be much help 10:50:37 There is also the .dvi file but you may want the source it asks you what level of detail you want to print before it compiles. You also need dungeonsrecording.tex 10:52:54 Sgeo: But does it have continuations? 10:53:11 I doubt it. 10:53:52 It's such a Scheme thing it ought to be on the list. 10:54:05 My idea was Icosahedral RPG; 4th ed changed many things I don't like and Icosahedral is changed from 3rd ed mostly in the opposite ways (this is mainly a coincidence; these ideas were much from before 4th ed was announced) 10:54:30 For example, 4th ed has CR but no LA, Icosahedral has LA but no CR. 10:58:14 Icosahedral RPG also completes PC/NPC unification, something 3rd ed has partially done and 4th ed has abandoned. 11:00:46 Arcane magic in 3rd ed (and all earlier editions) is not sufficiently arcane (in my opinion), and in 4th ed it is not even sufficiently magic! 11:06:10 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Quit: Going down for system reinstallation.). 11:06:33 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 11:06:52 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Client Quit). 11:15:12 (The things that used CR in D&D are not used in Icosahedral RPG, so there is no need to have CR.) 11:16:21 http://i.imgur.com/6mg5v.jpg 11:18:50 ion: Crawl Light has squarelos now! 11:19:36 ion: THANKS TO ME. 11:19:39 Have I told you this? 11:20:11 Make a variant with knightlos 11:20:32 That sounds confusing. 11:20:37 elliott: You haven’t! 11:20:44 Yes it probably would be confusing 11:20:57 ion: BEHOLD: https://github.com/dtsund/crawl-light/commit/4978bd01902f948a5bdbc00d48539a2d912523a7 11:21:00 You should play Light! 11:21:16 I have unfinished games on both CAO and CDO, btw. :-P 11:21:27 ion: You know how Crawl has a bunch of repetitive levels and could stand to have the branches a bit shorter? And also how curses are so meaningless as to be pointless? 11:21:44 And also how hunger is more of an annoyance than anything else? And also how the identificaiton game is kind of lame? And also how the LOS is a badly-approximated circle? 11:21:48 LIGHT FIXES ALL THESE THINGS. 11:21:50 Especially the last one. 11:21:55 ok :-) 11:21:56 Because I spent two days manually applying and fixing a patch. 11:22:10 ion: Anyway, two unfinished games is not nearly enough. 11:24:09 ion: Have I mentioned Light has a hard mode? 11:24:21 Lots of dragons and eyes of draining and multiple nasty uniques on the same dungeon level. 11:24:22 It's great. 11:24:26 Do I mean draining? 11:24:29 I mean devastation, I think. 11:28:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:29:42 I suppose the “circle” LOS is more like a rounded plus shape since diagonal moves have the same cost as horizontal and vertical moves, one could say you see further horizontally and vertically than diagonally. And the “square” LOS is more like a circle given the nonlinear topology. 11:30:03 ion: Yes, exactly. 11:30:12 ion: circlelos does ridiculous things like make it more advantageous to approach from a diagonal. 11:30:31 ion: (I think the "rounded plus shape" is actually a diamond.) 11:30:52 Hmm, it might be. 11:30:53 What's MIT scheme like? 11:31:05 Sgeo: A Scheme implementation. 11:31:11 ion: If I tell you the server, will you play Light? 11:31:11 sgeo: It has parentheses. 11:31:31 ion: Hint: The server is telnet light.bitprayer.com. 11:31:56 elliott: I might as well try it later. I’m watching mitx-6.002 lectures at the moment and there’s a deadline for the homework. 11:32:11 ion: Pfft, excuses. 11:33:59 Do you like to play as monster character in D&D game? 11:34:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Did you know that? Heralds don't pun, they cant.). 11:34:23 Jim Florentine - Let Me Put My Brother On (Prank Call) http://youtu.be/2dy9lUJJGqI 11:37:40 ion: Too busy for Crawl but not for YouTube? :P 11:39:53 elliott: I can do youtube for five minutes while eating something, crawl takes more time and more free hands. :-) 11:40:07 You can probably play Crawl with one hand. 11:40:28 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:43:50 That sounds dirty. 12:24:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:25:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:27:05 -!- Patashu has changed nick to Door. 12:28:20 -!- Door has changed nick to Patashu. 12:35:51 -!- derdon has joined. 12:49:00 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:50:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:54:33 Hello 13:01:47 hi Taneb 13:07:10 Why does Linden Labs prefix so many functions with the word Get 13:07:14 Get this, get that 13:10:33 They, too, are trapped in the Java Bean factory. 13:11:39 -!- Gregor has set topic: ESOTERIC SPONGE CONTEST | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 13:26:35 Finally, Luigi has a purpose! 13:31:33 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:57:00 -!- Guest2761 has joined. 13:57:28 -!- Guest2761 has left. 14:02:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:10:06 i had this great dream last night 14:10:09 but i've forgotten most of it 14:15:43 -!- ion has set topic: ESOTERIC SPONGE PREGNANCY TEST | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:24:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:07:02 elliott: find a piece you can remember.. and it will link to more 15:07:19 or maybe it won't 15:07:28 I don't remember more than a very few vague events; just images and the feel of it. 15:07:37 I know it involved at least one foreign country. 15:15:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:18:56 -!- qfr has quit (Changing host). 15:18:56 -!- qfr has joined. 15:26:16 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:26:31 -!- MDude has joined. 15:30:06 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/25/psychologists-replace-rorschach-tests-with-misheard-lyrics 15:31:49 itidus21: that links doesn't work 15:32:00 thats because it's a lie 15:32:09 diabolical 15:32:20 i wrote a url knowing it didn't exist! 15:32:38 diabolical 15:33:07 i once purjored myself that way 15:33:39 ^perjured 15:38:03 I both want to know the details and am praying that I never do. 15:38:28 i lied again! 15:38:51 HOW CAN I BEST SUCH A MASTER OF DECEPTION 15:39:29 maybe you don't need to. i just need to learn to communicate 16:00:06 The enemy has your lolly! 16:04:25 Then I need a hero who likes food. PacMan. 16:05:37 PacMan sequals = proof that 16:06:49 professor pacman: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Profpacman.png 16:09:54 break; 16:10:43 hi 16:26:52 Tried ArmA2 16:26:58 The controls feel like crap 16:27:06 I'm tempted to try America's Army like originally intended 16:27:44 don't 16:28:16 Because if I do, the brain control waves hidden in the game will force me to join the Army? 16:28:35 no 16:32:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:32:38 propaganda isn't based on brain control waves 16:32:41 `welcome KingOfKarlsruhe 16:32:49 KingOfKarlsruhe: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:32:58 Well, I promise not to join the Army, at any rate 16:33:11 have i mentioned don't play america's army 16:33:20 hoorah 16:33:53 elliott, what will happen if I do 16:33:54 Sgeo: i'm pretty sure, that HackEgo is a Haskell Bot 16:34:03 Sgeo: everybody will die 16:34:03 KingOfKarlsruhe, that's lambdabot 16:34:49 Bleh, I'd need to free up a lot of HD space 16:35:01 good 16:35:27 Sgeo, dont play america's army 16:35:47 you dont like arma 2's controls because you are noob 16:36:22 and dont like having q and e mapped to lean right and left because it is the 90s and there is time for fps qwop 16:36:37 I didn't even play with that 16:36:58 no thats by default 16:36:58 I don't like an essential function for training being mapped to a non-existent key 16:37:06 `pastlog and there is time for 16:37:07 ah yes that problem 16:37:34 you can `rebind' keys, it is a complex process though 16:37:39 No output. 16:37:41 The mouse sensitivity needs to be tuned :/ 16:37:43 actually i shouldn't jibe, it actually is in arma 2 16:37:46 `pastlog there is time for 16:37:53 Phantom_Hoover, I binded it to left Alt 16:37:59 binded 16:38:02 In the process losing the key for Look 16:38:04 2011-09-07.txt:03:14:55: -!- oerjan changed the topic of #esoteric to: It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 16:38:04 there are several pages of controls in each of like 5 sections 16:38:11 binded 16:38:21 -!- elliott has set topic: It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:38:35 atehwa: How did that event go, by the way? 16:38:45 I only just realized that that's not the word 16:39:07 Phantom_Hoover, wait, is right alt used for anything/ 16:39:10 I have a right alt key 16:39:14 probably 16:39:33 if you mash your face on the keyboard in arma 2 youll probably manage to start a nuclear war 16:39:37 lol 16:41:30 YOU EXPLODE YOU ACTUALLY *EXPLODE* 16:42:05 Phantom_Hoover, is look actually useful in games? 16:42:28 i suspect it's useful in vehicle sections 16:42:57 but if you have to do a vehicle section i pity you, its like piloting a pig with 2 engines on fire 16:43:16 Phantom_Hoover: what was the pig trap's slogan again 16:43:19 ex piggia et scientia or something 16:43:30 yes because you are bad lattin 16:43:34 Phantom_Hoover, does AA3 have vehicles? >.> 16:43:42 i have no idea 16:44:09 * Sgeo goes to install Urban Terror 16:45:00 Y\O\U\ H\A\V\E\N\'\T\ E\X\P\L\O\D\E\D\ Y\E\T\ 16:45:18 elliott, go get Worms working at some point 16:45:22 /B/U/T/ Y/O/U/ W/I/L/L/ /S/O/O/N 16:45:31 Sgeo: You ruined it. :( 16:46:13 o.O 16:46:27 Didn't realize there was something to ruin 16:46:35 That line. It interrupted mine. 16:46:55 Didn't realize there would be another line, and that there was supposed to be some sort of visual effect 16:46:58 Y\O\U\ H\A\V\E\N\'\T\ E\X\P\L\O\D\E\D\ Y\E\T\ 16:47:01 /B/U/T/ Y/O/U/ W/I/L/L/ /S/O/O/N 16:47:05 I don't get it 16:47:10 It's not really a visual effect. 16:47:14 They just belong together. 16:48:39 YBOUUT HYAOVUE NW'ITL LE XSPOLOON 16:48:50 ion: Light. 16:48:51 Play Light. 16:49:00 I'll play 16:49:01 I’l playing 6.002x 16:49:03 m 16:49:06 Sgeo: What, Light? 16:49:14 telnet light.bitprayer.com 16:50:00 Hold on 16:50:59 Playing 16:51:02 such a boring combo!!! but ok 16:51:04 What's light about it? 16:51:07 no id 16:51:09 no hunger 16:51:11 no curses 16:51:14 shorter branches 16:51:15 but also: 16:51:16 squarelos 16:51:18 difficulty modes 16:51:26 Oh, so still full game 16:51:29 aren't you going to adjust your skills 16:51:33 Thought it would be some quick thing 16:51:39 it's quick enough 16:51:41 you can win in a few hours 16:51:46 you want to autotrain 16:51:59 turn off fighting and dodging 16:52:24 What's purple? 16:52:33 it's scrolls that are probably bad 16:52:41 also mutagenic corpses but light doesn't have eating so 16:52:50 and 16:52:52 green is poisonous 16:52:59 and prayer does nothing if you've already chopped a corpse... 16:53:14 (additionally: you don't need to walk onto a corpse to sacrifice it in light) 16:53:30 Did not know that about not needing to walk on it 16:53:52 Why do apples exist? 16:54:11 fedhas i think 16:54:12 lag 16:54:19 i don't like the permafood still existing thing 16:54:21 it should be removed 16:56:03 Does teleport still have time before it actually takes effect? 16:56:28 yes 16:56:33 Sgeo: don't X>.>, just G> 16:57:39 nice int 16:57:44 ? 16:57:49 your int stat 16:57:56 it will be fun if you get stat-drained 16:58:06 Why is it that low? 16:58:20 because yuo're trol 16:59:26 Is Trog fine with skeletized corpses? 16:59:44 he's not fine with rotting corpses 16:59:44 so 16:59:45 no 17:00:23 henzell is more useful than xv 17:00:31 She can't cast in silence right? 17:00:35 it doesn't matter 17:00:51 elliott, hm? 17:00:52 just chokepoint and bash her 17:00:54 with berk possibly 17:01:35 What's Glow? 17:01:54 bad stuff that gives you mutations if it gets too high 17:01:59 so you can't spam spells/invocations too much 17:02:04 its harmless 17:03:13 Wait what 17:03:31 what about it 17:03:36 why did you add the zig to your shopping list 17:03:36 Ziggurat 17:03:39 yes 17:03:40 I didn't 17:03:41 what about it 17:03:42 oh 17:03:46 I pressed o 17:03:47 well 17:03:49 what about it 17:03:53 I think o automatically enters shops or something 17:04:01 it does but 17:04:04 i'm not sure what's confusing 17:04:12 Why it was offering me a ziggurat 17:04:19 it's a zig portal 17:04:28 consult ??ziggurat 17:05:09 nice saccing :P 17:05:52 what happened 17:05:56 I got bored 17:06:11 that quickly? 17:06:14 you didn't even reach the pandoora 17:06:20 do you give games less time than you give languages 17:06:30 lol 17:06:41 that was not a joke 17:06:54 >.> I might be in that habit 17:07:01 I do intend to go through SICP 17:07:35 have fun with that 17:07:48 ? 17:08:25 i have doubts in your patience 17:09:00 >.> that's a fear 17:11:47 Sgeo: you could at least splat the thing 17:14:51 the odds of me doing sicp are so small that the idea of me doing it first is not cause for concern 17:15:11 A star vs. a black hole, the length is 139 days. http://i.minus.com/ibovF0KvyEZmtl.gif 17:17:34 rip star 17:17:35 "missed" 17:17:52 I’m rooting for the black hole. 17:18:21 no 17:18:22 missed 17:22:28 No - lgood 17:25:07 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:30:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:31:07 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:31:33 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:35:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:44 -!- derdon has joined. 18:07:25 -!- augur has joined. 18:18:43 -!- BlueProtoman has joined. 18:19:19 Anyone know what 18:19:24 time it is? 18:19:36 On a more serious note... 18:20:32 I'm trying to write a Brainfuck interpreter. I've got my code here for seeing if the []'s are balanced http://ideone.com/S6Td2 , but it doesn't seem to work. I stepped through it on my own, with drawings and everything, and it worked fine. Any tips 18:21:57 are you just trying to check if they're balanced, or build a table of some kind while you're doing so? 18:22:08 Oh, yes, I'm doing the latter as well. 18:22:30 A table that records brace pairs so I can easily jump around. 18:22:51 right 18:22:56 what problems are you seeing exactly? 18:23:05 I get a segfault when I hit a ]. 18:23:14 Lemme show you my BF program. 18:23:19 nice 18:23:35 perhaps brace_table is insufficiently large 18:23:44 http://ideone.com/jDpfo 18:23:56 Insufficiently large? Huh? 18:24:07 well, how do you declare brace_table? 18:24:51 std::unordered_map brace_table; 18:24:58 ah 18:25:00 never mind, then... 18:25:12 seems very odd indeed 18:25:14 I use unordered_map because that's got constant lookup, while map doesn't. 18:25:28 but non-constant insert :) 18:25:32 anyway 18:25:40 Right, but I 18:25:42 Right, but I 18:25:44 Fuck 18:25:51 have you tried stepping through in gdb? I'd guess it's some other code you have that's causing the segfault, because I can't see how this would 18:25:53 Right, but I'm doing more lookups than insertions. 18:25:58 How about that thing, you know that thing. A gruddebe? No, that's not it. A grudbug. Oh, right, a debugger! 18:26:01 Oh, I think I might know what the issue is. 18:26:12 fizzie: BEAT YOU TO IT. 18:26:13 I forgot to actually use brace_table. 18:26:17 BlueProtoman: heh 18:26:22 Silly me. 18:26:24 elliott: Yeah, I was trying to invent more misspellings. 18:26:51 elliott: You said it first but fizzie said it better. 18:26:53 Also, I don't quite know how to run a program through gdb. I.e. launch gdb first, then my program. 18:26:58 fizzie++ 18:27:05 BlueProtoman: You should learn to use gdb! 18:27:09 gdb ./program 18:27:12 BlueProtoman: gdb ./program 18:27:12 > run 18:27:13 start 18:27:13 Not in scope: `run' 18:27:13 cont 18:27:14 > hi program 18:27:15 bt 18:27:16 Not in scope: `hi'Not in scope: `program' 18:27:55 shachaf: I do use it through Code::Blocks, but I don't really know how to use it on the command line. I don't know how to have Code::Blocks pass arguments to my program. With no args, my interpreter just shows a help screen. 18:28:12 gdb ./program 18:28:13 elliott: whoa, dude, start 18:28:14 set args a b c d 18:28:23 whoa, dude, set args 18:28:26 gdb can also take args on the command-line i think but 18:28:35 Yes, with gdb --args ./program a b c d 18:28:35 gdb --args ./program a b c d, or some-such. 18:28:40 Late again! 18:28:43 Curses. 18:28:48 ncurses 18:29:00 That simple? 18:29:12 OK, but now I need to figure out how to use the important utilities. 18:29:27 This summer I need to spend my time before college starts learning things like make or gdb. 18:29:32 99% of gdb is useless :P 18:29:42 elliott: gdb is ~2 million lines of code. 18:29:45 elliott: "important utilities" 18:29:46 !?!?!?! 18:29:49 So that's 20,000 useful lines? 18:30:00 shachaf: Sounds like an overestimation to me. 18:30:12 Lines of C. 18:30:29 OK, maybe. 18:30:49 Also gdb has some useful features that (presumably) take a lot of code to implement. 18:30:53 Like stepping backwards. 18:31:09 I hate debuggers. 18:31:11 BlueProtoman: Did you know gdb could do that? 18:31:17 I use printf debugging whenever possible. 18:31:18 shachaf: No, I didn't, actually. 18:31:32 Stepping backwards... 18:31:33 The nice thing about REPLs is that they're basically printf debugging automators. 18:31:42 Huh? 18:31:45 What's a REPL? 18:32:00 @google what's a repl :'( 18:32:02 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8731782/whats-a-repl-process-and-what-can-i-use-it-for 18:32:02 Title: node.js - What's a REPL process and what can I use it for? - Stack Overflow 18:32:06 BlueProtoman: Read-eval-print-loop. 18:32:14 Don't click that Stack Overflow link. Nothing with node.js in the title can be good news. 18:32:19 BlueProtoman: Have you used Python or Ruby? 18:32:24 @google why node.js is stupid 18:32:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1zzna-dNw 18:32:27 Title: Node.JS Is Stupid And If Y 18:32:28 elliott: I've dabbled in Python, Ruby not really. 18:32:33 BlueProtoman: You know the Python console? 18:32:36 Yep. 18:32:39 BlueProtoman: That's a REPL. 18:32:46 It reads an expression, evaluates it, prints the result, and loops back again. 18:33:03 Does it allow normal program flow if placed inside a program? 18:33:37 Can you clarify? I'm not sure I understand. 18:34:05 shachaf: I forgot about that video. :( 18:34:36 Gregor: You should watch that video. It's terrible. 18:35:22 elliott: Like, could I insert a REPL into my Brainfuck interpreter and NOT have it affect it running, aside from extra junk being put on-screen? 18:35:46 BlueProtoman: Well, a REPL is a development tool, really, separate from running complete programs. 18:36:07 But you could have a REPL where you can feed it a whole program and it'd work fine, sure. 18:36:23 So GDB is like a big-ass REPL? 18:36:44 gdb is like a REPL except it's attached to a running program that you step through. 18:36:50 And also you can't actually evaluate arbitrary expressions. 18:37:00 So it's not really like a REPL. But there are similarities :) 18:37:07 elliott: I haven't watched it. 18:37:22 shachaf: You should. 18:37:24 You'll hurt. 18:40:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:40:41 -!- augur has joined. 18:49:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:04:14 OK, new problem with my BF interpreter. 19:04:26 I now know how to access the braces properly. Fine. 19:05:04 But now when Brain Drain (as I call the interpreter) runs through the BF program, it doesn't output anything even though the BF program has "." instructions. 19:05:15 And IDEone tells me it works just fine. 19:06:15 I catch all the exceptions that both std::string and std::unordered_map throw, and they mostly consist of vector::_M_range_check, with the occasional _Map_base::at 19:06:32 (According to std::out_of_range.what()) 19:07:10 And I use unordered_map.at() rather than unordered_map[] so I don't create new elements. 19:07:46 Any tips? 19:08:31 BlueProtoman: I recommend taking elliott's advice. 19:08:41 Take your printfshaker and sprinkle some printfs throughout the program. 19:08:46 shachaf: I am. 19:09:03 how big is the interpreter? 19:09:04 Particularly in my instructions, which come as void function objects. 19:09:48 coppro: Lemme put it on IDEone. See, I plan on adding several Brainfuck dialects, and each one will come as a class. 19:11:06 When I put cout's in my BF instructions, I get nothing. I DO know that the program is looping with the braces, though. 19:11:16 http://ideone.com/z9Yji 19:11:25 That's my Brainfuck.cpp. Brainfuck.h coming 19:12:16 I think your regex is wrong 19:12:41 It shouldn't compile 19:13:07 coppro: My regex is somewhat correct (it compiles, but doesn't match anything), but that's not my concern right now. 19:13:16 http://ideone.com/UhC55 19:13:37 BlueProtoman: ok, well, it doesn't match because the early ] kills it 19:13:42 your character class ends partway through 19:13:51 coppro: I don't know how to match individual []'s, though. 19:14:02 BlueProtoman: [ can be matched safely inside a class 19:14:12 and ] can be matched safely outside of one 19:14:15 also watch out for - 19:14:18 it needs to be first or las 19:14:24 *or last, or else it will be a character range 19:14:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:15:30 coppro: Still doesn't match my program. 19:15:30 oh, ] can also be safely matched first 19:15:43 []fo] matches ']', 'f', or 'o' 19:16:10 You ARE referring to POSIX regex, right? 19:16:23 This is mine, with your changes; [^><+.,[\]@$!}{~^&|-] 19:16:33 And this is my BF program; 19:16:33 f++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++The Rain in Spain is Falling on the Plane..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 19:16:45 I have installed working c compiler to my bot at #esoteric-en. first one to destroy my chroot gets ops 19:16:53 you can't just escape a ] 19:17:05 backslashes are meaningless inside classes 19:17:29 you have to do [^][><+.,@$!{}~^&|-] 19:18:28 coppro: It works! Thanks! Now to actually get the program itself working. 19:18:40 make sure to flush cout 19:19:03 When? And what does flushing do? 19:19:15 cout is buffered output 19:19:24 it doesn't instantly print everything you stream to it 19:19:29 you have to flush it to make it actually happen 19:19:39 endl flushes automatically 19:21:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:21:51 coppro: OK, I cout.flush() whenever I hit a "." instruction, but I still see nothing. 19:26:49 always flush regularly. or was that floss regularly. 19:27:41 I still don't quite understand what a buffer is or what flushing is. 19:29:58 afaik: communicating between processes is somewhat expensive, therefore file/stream io tends to try not to send just one character at a time, but instead save it in a buffer to be sent all at once. this can be set to happen either when the buffer is full, when a newline is output, or on each character (when you really need it). 19:30:08 *afaiu 19:30:37 It's syscalls that are expensive, really 19:31:32 also perhaps cache synchronization, no? 19:32:14 If that's the case, why does std::cout << "France"; work 19:32:34 yes, even when processes communicate through shared memory and use lockless data structures, there is no free lunch 19:32:49 BlueProtoman: stdout is typically line-buffered if it's a terminal 19:33:29 kmc: In that case, why should I flush often if we're using a terminal? Hell, what else could stdout go to? 19:33:45 BlueProtoman: you could redirect stdout to a file, or pipe it to another process 19:34:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:34:03 BlueProtoman: because it won't flush until you write a newline 19:34:06 so the output won't come 19:34:09 kmc: So I could redirect stdout to LibreOffice if I wanted to? 19:34:12 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:34:17 Or some other text editor? 19:34:19 on UNIX anyway, stdout is just file descriptor 1, and that could be opened to any kind of file 19:34:22 if libreoffice supported that, sure 19:34:29 unix is all about connecting stdout and stdin to places 19:34:29 BlueProtoman: sure, but those programs typically don't accept input on standard input 19:34:33 why don't you read about unix pipes 19:35:08 So if not standard input, then what? 19:35:23 libreoffice is a gui program with gui dialogs for opening files and such 19:35:30 that's where it gets its input 19:35:34 not by reading std::cin 19:35:59 I meant the text. It just uses events, then? 19:36:04 i'm so confused 19:36:18 Never mind that, then. 19:36:19 It's syscalls that are expensive, really <-- right, shared memory and non-contended futexes are both pretty cheap, as neither gets the kernel involved 19:36:27 i think rather than flushing repeatedly, you can just put std::cout into an unbuffered mode 19:36:31 but i don't remember how 19:36:38 HAVE I MENTIONED 19:36:39 HOW 19:36:42 SYSCALLS 19:36:43 ARE FREE 19:36:44 IN @ 19:36:53 elliott: Huh? 19:36:55 elliott: ALSO BEER 19:36:59 BlueProtoman: @ is... @ 19:37:03 it's... it's a thing 19:37:08 Free in @? I don't get it. 19:37:11 it's like feather, but different 19:37:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather 19:37:19 Oh, OK. 19:37:23 BlueProtoman: as to your original question, try something like: std::cout << "foo"; sleep(2); std::cout << " bar\n"; 19:37:34 you won't see foo 2 seconds before bar 19:37:37 because of line buffering 19:37:39 BlueProtoman: @ is elliott's vaporware os design 19:37:47 it's not vapourware! 19:37:49 it's just uh 19:37:50 uhhh 19:37:51 @ware 19:37:52 Maybe you meant: arr more part where yarr 19:37:53 The suckiest part of World of Padman is the players 19:38:02 They don't seem to know how to play capture the flag 19:39:04 elliott: just solidly challenged, right? 19:39:12 >:( 19:39:51 naive use of shared memory is pretty cheap for 2-4 threads but if you're trying to scale up to a 48 core machine, you hit a wall pretty quickly 19:40:09 http://www.mezzacotta.net/owls/ is very meta today 19:40:41 kmc: OK. Now, what I don't get is how this helps me understand why my BF interpreter gives me no output. Especially since I just switched to putchar. 19:40:43 then you need to think about cache lines bouncing between cores, efficient use of memory barriers, NUMA 19:41:04 BlueProtoman: it doesn't :P 19:41:06 BlueProtoman: if it's a buffering problem you should get all the output when the program quits 19:41:07 putchar buffers too though 19:41:27 elliott: Except that there might be a need for input beforehand. BF allows input. 19:41:49 coppro: you can also do [><+.,@$!{}~^&|-^] no? 19:42:42 There must be a problem with how I'm calling my function objects. 19:42:56 Placing std::cout << "France" << std::endl in them does nothing. 19:43:14 maybe your code isn't getting called at all 19:43:33 btw, cerr is useful for debugging as it's unbuffered 19:44:27 kmc: Noted. 19:45:25 you could use debugger breakpoints to see if your code is getting called 19:45:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:45:47 Hello 19:46:01 Am I allowed to call myself a published software author now? 19:46:58 -!- Zuu has changed nick to FluffZuu. 19:47:09 -!- FluffZuu has changed nick to FluffBall. 19:48:26 kmc: This is my Brainfuck.cpp. At the bottom, I call my code with run(), which calls nextInstruction() on each character. http://ideone.com/8EjGf 19:50:29 Any tips? 19:51:53 no 19:51:55 you could use debugger breakpoints to see if your code is getting called 19:52:27 I need a break. 19:52:32 So I'll take one. 19:52:34 -!- BlueProtoman has left ("Leaving"). 19:52:39 -!- elliott has left. 19:53:43 It's probably not related, but the run() looks very dubious. It will call nextInstruction() as many times as there are characters in the program, but (if there are loops) that's probably not the right amount of steps to execute. 19:54:49 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:54:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:12:06 Go the store, and buy some more. You will need to open the purple door. -- Super ASCII MZX Town 20:13:58 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 20:14:26 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 20:17:01 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 20:17:10 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 20:18:47 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 20:18:53 Make up QR-GAME which consists of a QR code of a binary code of a computer game for some virtual machine or emulator 20:18:59 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 20:19:18 nortti: Why do you keep changing your name? 20:19:52 zzo38: I test !msg and !readmsg commands in my ircbot 20:20:03 OK 20:20:20 oh elliott left 20:21:49 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 20:21:58 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 20:28:30 -!- Achtquack has joined. 20:29:40 -!- Achtquack has quit (Quit: Verlassend). 20:29:48 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:30:18 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:32:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:33 -!- augur has joined. 20:33:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:44:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:49:18 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti__. 20:49:34 -!- nortti__ has changed nick to nortti_. 20:50:34 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 20:55:17 Church of Bitcoin? 21:00:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:02:11 Edward Kmett said that discardable functors are the same as representable functors, and representable functors are isomorphic to ((->) x) for some x. I can prove that all discardable monads are idempotent applicatives, but since they are representable and therefore isomorphic to ((->) x) they are all monads and therefore all idempotent as well. 21:04:09 However, there are idempotent applicatives which are not discardable/representable, such as: ZipList, ((,) x) for some idempotent monoid x, Maybe, (Either x), (Const x) for some idempotent monoid x 21:04:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 21:04:37 What does idempotent mean? 21:05:17 Idempotent monoid means mappend x x = x and idempotent applicative means x *> x = x 21:05:38 idempotent in general means "if you apply it twice, it's the same as applying it once" 21:05:55 And discardable and representable in this context? 21:06:59 Taneb: Discardable functor means x <$ y = x <$ z and representable means isomorphic to ((->) x) for some x 21:07:36 Identity is isomorphic to ((->) ()) and Finalize is isomorphic to ((->) Zero) 21:10:19 Is (\f x y -> (f x -> f y)) a Arrow if and only if f is idempotent applicative? I don't know but I guessed 21:12:15 x *> x = x >> x = join (x <$ x) = join (x <$ return y) = join (return x) = (join . return) x = id x = x 21:12:17 ...is Proxy an idempotent applicative? 21:12:46 Taneb: I think Proxy is equivalent to Finalize, so it is 21:13:04 Okay 21:13:05 (Note in proof given: This assumes it is discardable, so (x <$ x) = (x <$ y) for any y) 21:39:24 -!- nortti_ has joined. 21:40:36 Goodnight! 21:40:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:30 -!- monqy has joined. 21:44:51 -!- nortti_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:45:42 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 21:48:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:48:35 -!- nortti_ has joined. 21:49:58 -!- oonbotti has joined. 21:50:43 There are two campaign rules I like (which are default in Icosahedral RPG, but I like to use them in Dungeons&Dragons as well): * Any dead creature is considered to age twice as fast while dead for the purpose of resurrection increasing your age more. * Alignment entry for kinds of creatures does not describe what is most likely (with a few exceptions) but instead describes what people (especially if superstitious) tend to believe. 21:50:56 Exceptions = angels, devils, demons, normal animals/vermins, unintelligent undead, and uniques. 21:55:36 hello 21:57:01 `welcome oonbotti 21:57:02 hi 21:57:05 oonbotti: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:57:37 * oerjan has a hunch that might mean "o is a bot" 21:58:23 oonbotti=olen botti=I am bot 21:59:18 (Other than the given exceptions, any random individual of some kind can be just as likely to be of any alignment; confirmation bias may cause people to persist in their fallacious beliefs.) 21:59:43 I think these two campaign rules make the game more interesting 22:00:04 !rawirc PRIVMSG #esoteric Maybe I should make command for this 22:00:05 Maybe 22:00:05 oh oon is slang for olen? 22:00:20 nortti_: You forgot the colon 22:00:27 !rawirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make command for this 22:00:28 Maybe I should make command for this 22:00:46 oerjan: yes 22:01:23 sorry, slang ain't gonna make it 'round here 22:01:53 !cc hello.c 22:02:00 !exec hello 22:02:22 Hello world\n 22:02:49 !cat hello.c 22:02:50 #include \nint main() {char a[12]; a[0]='H'; a[1]='e'; a[2]='l'; a[3]='l'; a[4]='o'; a[5]=' '; a[6]='w'; a[7]='o'; a[8]='r'; a[9]='l'; a[10]='d'; a[11]=0; puts(a); } 22:02:51 hello.c 22:02:53 !cat hello 22:02:54 >>[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[>+>>>>+<<<<<-]>[<+>-]>>>>+[ 22:02:54 hello 22:03:10 i sense a conflict 22:03:17 me too 22:03:36 !cat foobar 22:03:37 foobar 22:03:44 * oerjan suggests \ 22:04:00 \help 22:04:18 I suggest you could just send message directly to oonbotti 22:04:37 Or you could have "oonbotti: " prefix for commands written to the channel 22:05:08 -!- oonbotti has left. 22:05:39 oh well. I 'lljust keep it on #esoteric-en 22:05:51 OK 22:06:34 if the default is finnish, then #esoteric-en means _not_ esoteric, right? 22:06:49 oerjan: no, #esoteric-en means /not finnish/ 22:06:55 all languages but finnish are acceptable there, though 22:06:57 not just English 22:07:38 ais523: that was a lousy attempt at a pun with finnish. 22:08:57 fi:en = en:i don't, or something like that 22:09:26 oerjan: oh, I see 22:09:37 when #esoteric-en was in the topic, though, the rule was that it was for all languages but Finnish 22:09:47 actually enforced in #esoteric-en :) 22:09:54 (not sure how many people actually joined it) 22:10:08 * oerjan suddenly wonders why it's fi rather than su 22:10:09 Ii never saw anyone other there than Sgeo 22:11:03 and I was there almost all the time 22:11:43 Do you like the rules of Icosahedral RPG? 22:12:23 -!- kwertii has joined. 22:13:10 Is this topic some kind of Markov nightmare of all the topics from the past year? 22:14:12 by the way !cc on oonbotti was actually c2bf 22:15:34 it is the ISC licensed version with my libc and cpp added on wrapper script 22:17:26 Is that available somewhere yet? 22:18:36 `pastlog transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also 22:18:41 no yet. I still don't really understand how git works 22:18:53 2011-09-13.txt:23:10:28: -!- oerjan changed the topic of #esoteric to: Freudian armchair psycho-babble | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 22:19:32 oerjan: Yes, that was my point ... 22:19:37 Gregor: i think it may be a straight rerun of one from earlier 22:19:45 around that time 22:20:04 Gregor: it was "fun" to edit copyright notices in all of the files 22:22:34 nortti_: YOU'RE WELCOME 22:23:03 WHY CAPITAL LETTERS? 22:23:23 BECAUSE I DECREE IT. 22:25:22 why do you decree it? 22:36:27 -!- augur has joined. 22:38:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:06:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:25 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:06:57 -!- augur has joined. 23:13:40 Can you make the Free Geeks GameBoy game? 23:27:06 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:44:26 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2012-05-26: 00:00:26 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 00:03:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:26:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:27:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:31:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:14 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:46:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:59:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:59:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:22:52 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:23:09 -!- MDude has joined. 02:01:28 -!- madbr has joined. 02:29:20 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 02:56:08 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:17:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:18:04 Pointers may be more useful than lambda calculus for some things; for other things, lambda calculus may be more useful. Isn't it? 03:19:11 no pointers are Awesome™ and lambda calculus gives you bad breath 03:21:37 Have you ever seen the Kaiji anime/manga? 03:26:28 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 03:33:46 how many actual programs use lambda calculus? 03:35:50 3 03:36:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:42:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:55:40 -!- monqy_ has joined. 03:55:52 -!- monqy has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:56:12 -!- monqy_ has changed nick to monqy. 04:01:45 Free (CoYoneda f) is always a monad regardless of f, and f can be a GADT of actions, and you can make the monad of the actions to perform, which can also allow the actions to be manipulated. The f could also be a class wrapper: data X :: * -> * where { X :: XC x y => x -> X y; }; class Typeable x => XC x y | x -> y where { ... }; 04:17:52 if your preferred natural language doesn't use the Latin alphabet, what keyboard layout do you use when coding? US QWERTY? 04:19:45 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:35:11 -!- madbr has joined. 04:36:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:39:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:51:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:45 zzo38: hay! 06:06:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:08:17 shachaf: OK 06:10:33 -!- glogbackup has joined. 06:10:56 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:11:07 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:32:21 Do you watch Kaiji? 06:32:30 Do you watch Kaiji or Akagi? 06:33:34 I don't. 06:33:35 Do you? 06:36:10 Yes. I watch Kaiji and I read the Akagi manga 06:36:26 do you watch Akagi and read the Kaiji manga? 06:36:27 monqy: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 06:37:00 lucky monqy 06:37:02 lonqy 06:38:20 Kaiji and Akagi are both very excellent manga written by Fukumoto, although his drawing is bad (he admits this). 06:38:34 Do you read it in Japanese or in Canadian? 06:39:25 Shame there's not a zzo translation. 06:49:59 They are in Japanese. 06:50:29 Although I watch the Kaiji anime with English subtitles 06:52:56 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:13:05 Even though Set cannot be made instance of Monad, a type can be made for the Kleisli category of Set and make the Category instance for that. 07:15:54 Do you like the variant campaign rules for Dungeons&Dragons game and Icosahedral RPG, that I have made? 08:21:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:21:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:32:11 Hello! 08:39:28 -!- nortti_ has joined. 09:07:23 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:21:16 -!- derdon has joined. 09:23:43 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:50:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:50:35 yay. got forth interpeter in my ircbot 09:50:54 Go forth and interpret! 09:54:45 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)...=?). 10:01:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:09:41 @help 10:09:41 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 10:09:54 ^help 10:09:55 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 10:10:01 #help 10:26:12 -!- oonbotti has joined. 10:26:17 #help 10:26:18 #echo, #welcome, #cat, #ls, #rm, #writefile, #cc, #exec, #msg, #readmsg, #forth, #loadforth 10:26:49 #forth words 10:26:50 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:26:55 #forth forget forget 10:26:55 ERROR:word 'FORGET' cannot be forgotten 10:27:00 #forth forget + 10:27:02 #forth words 10:27:03 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:27:07 #forth reset 10:27:12 #forth words 10:27:12 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:27:20 #forth RESET 10:27:41 #quit 10:27:41 -!- oonbotti has quit (Client Quit). 10:33:19 %help 10:41:33 -!- oonbotti has joined. 10:41:45 % words 10:41:45 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:43:35 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 10:45:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:46:35 -!- nortti has set topic: It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hell/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 11:15:08 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:24:41 #cat test.forth 11:24:42 : sq dup * ; 6 sq . 11:25:15 #loadforth test.forth 11:25:15 36 11:25:25 #rm test.forth 12:25:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:17:38 -!- elliott has joined. 13:18:47 !rawirc QUIT :x 13:18:48 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:19:09 elliott: new command char is # 13:19:14 #rawirc QUIT :x 13:19:17 aw 13:19:22 #shell ls 13:19:23 bfi.py \ botcmd.py \ botcmd.pyc \ ircbot.py \ msgs.txt \ replacecmd.sh \ sforth.py \ sforth.pyc \ tmpdata \ userdata \ 13:19:35 #shell cat /etc/passwd 13:19:45 #shell rm replacecmd.sh 13:19:52 #shell ls 13:19:52 bfi.py \ botcmd.py \ botcmd.pyc \ ircbot.py \ msgs.txt \ sforth.py \ sforth.pyc \ tmpdata \ userdata \ 13:19:53 22:10:09: Ii never saw anyone other there than Sgeo 13:19:58 nortti: i joined it first. 13:20:00 my channel. 13:20:10 #shell for i in a b c; echo $i; done 13:20:16 your shell sucks 13:20:17 elliott: I declared it, that makes it MY channel ;) 13:20:31 i was considering registering it 13:20:44 elliott: when did you join it? 13:20:50 03:33:46: how many actual programs use lambda calculus? 13:20:50 03:35:50: 3 13:20:52 it's 2 now 13:20:56 nortti: right after it was added to the topic 13:21:44 I joined it 17th May 16:57:15 and there was no one there. 13:22:11 oh wait. yes there was. I didn't notice you 13:23:49 for a long time Sgeo was there but after some time I was left as the only one there 13:27:58 elliott: my shell doesn't suck. It is undocumented feauture of my bot and it requires that you are in oonbotti's .botops file 13:28:11 #help 13:28:11 #echo, #welcome, #cat, #ls, #rm, #writefile, #cc, #exec, #msg, #readmsg, #forth, #loadforth 13:28:42 elliott: also, #forth has alias % 13:28:55 #forth 4 2 13:29:04 % swap 10 * + . 13:29:05 42 13:29:08 hey! 13:29:12 blahbot reserves % 13:29:24 blahbot? 13:29:33 yes 13:29:35 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting 13:29:39 rest in peace 13:29:57 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:30:13 ok, someone called Bfucker has created two brainfuck derivatives in two days 13:30:15 help 13:31:09 elliott: it seems blahbot also reserves ! 13:31:47 or is % just a prefix and not jumping to -1 is exciting command 13:33:24 #quit 13:33:25 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti). 13:33:58 -!- oonbotti has joined. 13:34:05 $ 42 . 13:34:05 42 13:37:21 also only words >R R@ R> - * / MOD : ; are written in python. everything else is written in forth 13:37:24 $ words 13:37:24 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:37:39 oh and forget is also written in python 13:37:52 nortti: % was the prefix it used 13:37:57 it had other commands too :P 13:38:04 okay 13:38:05 $42 is how much I paid for it 13:38:07 How much? 13:38:08 $42 . 13:38:28 elliott remember to put space between $ and 42 13:38:30 $ 42 . 13:38:30 42 13:38:33 $ 42 . 13:38:33 42 13:38:36 $42 . 13:38:55 I was deliberately omitting it so I had the chance to possibly complain about your new prefix :P 13:40:19 I also thought using * as prefix and make bot complain if command was not found but then i rememberd what it is used for 13:40:24 *remembered 13:40:34 What's it used for 13:40:46 fixing you typos 13:42:21 elliott: also if it wouldn't need space between $ and words to execute there would be even more annoyance 13:42:24 # 42. 13:42:28 $ 42. 13:42:28 ERROR:Word not found 13:43:45 $ forget + 13:43:53 $ forget drop 13:43:58 $ forget dup 13:44:00 nortti: oh, right 13:44:02 $ forget swap 13:44:07 botte will theoretically use . as a prefix 13:44:08 $ forget nip 13:44:09 .foo 13:44:14 $ words 13:44:15 : ; WORDS FORGET OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:44:35 $ : dup >r r@ r> ; 13:44:47 $ : drop dup - - ; 13:45:00 $ : + >r 0 r> - - ; 13:45:25 $ : swap over >r >r drop r> r> ; 13:45:37 $ : nip swap drop ; 13:46:31 that is how these words are implemented in my forth interpreter 13:46:53 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:47:50 If I remember correctly I could also implement OVER in forth but I don't really see how if I don't have swap 13:49:04 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:51:18 $ resetenv 13:51:23 $ words 13:51:23 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:52:38 $ 1 0 / . 13:52:50 $ 13 5 + . 13:52:50 18 13:53:04 $ . . 13:53:05 ERROR:Stack underflow 13:53:08 $ . 13:53:08 ERROR:Stack underflow 13:57:02 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:23:25 Hello! 14:24:49 hi 14:29:31 -!- Ngevd has joined. 14:31:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:32:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:39:09 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 14:58:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 14:58:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:07:48 -!- nooga has joined. 15:08:43 WHY DOES OTOOL OUTPUT AT&T ASSEMBLER SYNTAX ;C 15:09:20 Because all the associated tools INPUT AT&T assembler syntax? 15:09:36 but even stupid gdb has an option for that 15:10:05 otool does too, I think. 15:10:28 + apple's gdb is too old or too stupid to understand disas \m and \r options that i need 15:11:21 the solution starts with l and ends with inux 15:11:31 or starts with bsd and ends with the null string 15:12:03 or maybe it starts with m and ends with inix? 15:12:17 elliott: Actually it ends with "BSD" and starts with a variety of other words. 15:12:35 i was considering saying that 15:12:38 nortti: no 15:12:46 nothing starts with m and ends with inix other than suffering 15:12:49 i could just build binutils on OS X 15:12:56 elliott: I like it 15:13:01 but i'm too lazy 15:13:11 nooga: And then enjoy it not being able to meaningfully handle any of the native binaries? 15:13:20 nortti: ok 15:13:44 i'd rather write a ruby script to crunch otool's output 15:14:00 elliott: 1.5 runs on my old machines, 2 is fast and requires minimal amount of memory and 3 is pretty stable 15:14:03 suffering also starts with r and ends with uby 15:14:11 nortti: thanks for this information 15:14:18 elliott: ruby on minix! 15:14:21 elliott: why? 15:14:39 nooga: i don't know why suffering exists 15:14:58 but why it starts with r and ends with uby? 15:15:23 elliott: also why do you think that suffering starts with m and ends with minix 15:15:27 *inix 15:15:28 nooga: well you're about to find that out for yourself 15:16:17 i code ruby for at least 3 years and still didn't notice anything 15:16:41 then there may be a bigger problem 15:17:05 sometimes people start with s and end with uffering 15:17:07 even though it's quite slow 15:28:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:28:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 15:28:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:33:55 elliott: Sergei von Uffering? 15:34:06 yes 15:34:08 hi ais523 15:34:11 your cloak is broken 15:34:44 I know 15:46:36 `ls 15:46:45 bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ maketext \ monqy \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom 15:47:00 `ls monqy/ 15:47:02 ls: cannot access monqy/: Not a directory 15:47:09 `cat monqy 15:47:11 hi 15:47:21 `file maketext 15:47:24 maketext: directory 15:47:32 `ls maketext/ 15:47:35 0 15:47:42 ? 15:48:00 `ls -F maketext/ 15:48:03 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 15:48:05 `run ls -F maketext 15:48:08 `cat maketext/0 15:48:08 0 15:48:11 No output. 15:48:14 `run rm -r maketext 15:48:17 No output. 15:48:20 `rm monqy 15:48:24 No output. 15:48:37 `file canary 15:48:39 canary: empty 15:49:08 `ls karma/ 15:49:11 ls: cannot access karma/: Not a directory 15:49:17 `cat karma 15:49:20 fizzie now has 1 karma. 15:50:03 `run cat karma | pastelogs 15:50:14 `run cat karma | paste 15:50:17 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10030 15:50:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28886 15:51:15 iteresting 15:51:23 `file paste 15:51:26 paste: directory 15:53:41 `karma 15:53:46 has 0 karma. 15:53:57 `karma 15:54:02 has 0 karma. 15:54:03 the karma thing is broken because gregor is terible 15:54:16 @karma 15:54:16 You have a karma of 1 15:54:31 ^karma 15:54:35 !karma 15:54:38 %karma 15:54:48 #karma 16:02:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 16:05:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:12:48 `karma 16:12:53 has 0 karma. 16:12:59 `karma nortti 16:13:03 nortti has 0 karma. 16:13:16 `karma Taneb 16:13:22 Taneb has 0 karma. 16:13:30 @karma Taneb 16:13:30 You have a karma of 0 16:13:34 Aww 16:13:55 `karma fizzie 16:13:59 fizzie has 0 karma. 16:14:07 Taneb++ 16:14:14 @karma 16:14:15 You have a karma of 2 16:14:17 oh wait i think I fixed `karma 16:14:21 `++ Taneb 16:14:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ++: not found 16:14:27 `karma+ Taneb 16:14:31 i forget how it works 16:14:32 Taneb now has 1 karma. 16:14:34 `karma Taneb 16:14:37 @karma+ HackEgo 16:14:38 HackEgo's karma raised to 1. 16:14:39 Taneb has 1 karma. 16:14:44 `paste bin/karma 16:14:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11427 16:14:53 `paste lib/karma 16:14:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12049 16:15:02 right 16:15:05 it's broken 16:15:10 but it works 16:15:10 sort of 16:21:03 -!- Guest28135 has joined. 16:21:16 `welcome Guest28135 16:21:19 Guest28135: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:21:51 Thanks 16:22:19 who are you and what has taken you here? 16:22:40 Me? 16:22:55 yoy 16:22:58 *you 16:23:29 Just looking for new friends 16:24:14 we'ere lots of friends here 16:24:17 do you know anything about esoteric programming languages? 16:24:17 practically a friend party 16:24:23 nortti: what're those 16:24:31 nortti: asl plz? 16:24:31 Cool 16:24:54 elliott: asl pls? 16:25:16 3/m/texas 16:25:24 (texas is a country in the south pacific) 16:25:29 Guest28135: 14/m/Finland 16:25:30 3? 16:25:35 yes 3 16:25:38 i;m a dog 16:25:43 its like 47 in human years or something 16:25:45 elliott: no, texas is austria 16:26:02 Ew 16:26:15 Wew 16:26:18 olsner: by the way are the kangaroos moved there yet 16:27:15 20/m/kuta 16:27:16 nortti: not sure, ask Gregor 16:32:41 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:34:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:40:07 -!- monqy has joined. 16:40:37 Hello 16:40:43 hi 16:40:44 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:41:15 Asl pls? 16:41:31 ... 16:42:18 yes 16:45:55 monqy: asl? 16:46:04 yes 16:46:59 elliott, know any good Forth tutorials? 16:47:07 probably 16:47:28 Can you please recommend one perhaps? 16:47:46 i dont remenmber the ones i know 16:47:52 oh well 16:50:06 how can you know about them if you don't remember them? 16:50:42 olsner: i know how but i don't remember how 16:57:28 I should learn forth some time 17:04:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:22:03 Vorpal: statring forth 17:23:03 and you can use oonbotti's interactive forth interpreter 17:23:13 isn't thinking forth better 17:23:26 haha 17:23:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:23:51 fuck otool -> http://pastie.org/3972547 17:24:08 HEllo 17:24:24 I'm gonna start a Dwarf Fortress over an aquifer 17:24:26 nooga: what is funny? 17:24:44 Taneb: are you termcasting it 17:24:49 NOT YET 17:24:54 ok 17:24:56 nortti: i've added machine code to the output 17:24:57 im watching monqy play twice at once 17:25:16 and some colors (visible only in terminal) 17:25:18 monqy: nice tele traps 17:25:19 nooga: to what output? 17:25:22 in this vaults loot 17:25:37 monqy: nice giant newt dying 17:25:47 and now just a small function left to translate at&t into intel syntax 17:25:59 nortti: to the otool's output of course 17:26:40 Taneb: when do you start termcasting? 17:26:48 SHORTLY 17:26:53 Keep refreshing 17:27:07 what is this with starting over an aquifier? 17:27:17 i've never done that because i was afraid 17:27:25 STARTED 17:28:09 -!- madbr has joined. 17:28:30 nooga: why is there no bindump on your platform? 17:28:54 hmm, I think I mean objdump 17:29:28 whatever... you know, that tool that already does all that stuff you want 17:29:59 olsner: OS X has shitty thing called otool instead 17:30:04 objdump does sound like the right tool for the job 17:30:14 and binutils are not very good with handling native binaries 17:30:41 huh, i know about objdump guys... i'd used it if i could 17:32:23 huh, you already know about it? then why aren't you using it! 17:32:31 BECAUSE OS X! 17:33:34 feels like the correct solution to this problem is finishing the binutils port for mac 17:33:55 Fortress name, anyone? 17:34:28 something stupid 17:34:45 Seizurebears? 17:34:50 Taneb: call it "TANEBS FORTRESS" 17:35:03 olsner, I'm afraid I can't do that 17:35:10 Seizurebees! 17:35:12 olsner: poopborn 17:35:14 yes 17:35:16 seizurebees 17:35:20 `? Taneb 17:35:22 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 17:35:23 cheesurebees 17:35:23 Group name? 17:35:27 `? Ngved 17:35:28 beeseizures 17:35:30 Ngved? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:35:34 what 17:35:34 beeizures 17:35:35 oh 17:35:36 `? Ngevd 17:35:39 ​:s.6p[.o@5|36aylMߋUϧ9Wg{T;%m.(9R)d9o=KXAКzbwdhFeo~...&rGhϡDJl穬 ).g\.5^s.(..j.v6I!bt.YX{?....mT.)X*K../@..ȞF@s.....v!...N2..E.F..w~CF<..zl*.̠ڡ^!}.>.Cț.nw+[. \ 浒#(.l.A..5;Mz..H[3Z'GyT?.ξ].+1.f3?Ѫ.|)ua!2s)I 17:35:50 he is not null terminated 17:35:56 `? Ngevd 17:35:59 ​\.Vu`|pF^&L\ǂ>.;.J./թfZDnċ.="5WsTWW(P34%|_ \ vң׶.iQ\1.vl&.QS%퍽)#rPb.s.S\8n.UH뤈.皦 o<`7{h3<<^֍c-N..|Rӝ?1v9h9s./yA!]A8v$=>.Zu.؝Pq._C?>.qf.YۓфPSBc|_9Jǩ..a.ָ8li.Mxo \ ..f&..Y.H6W0.7. .O䠖Y.. 17:36:05 btw people watching the termcast 17:36:07 its 80x25 not 80x24 17:36:07 so 17:36:31 EMBARK TIME 17:36:41 (80x25 is default for DF) 17:36:42 what partty name 17:36:43 did you pick 17:36:53 Beeseizures 17:37:05 good 17:37:10 ? 17:37:13 Beeseizures of Doom 17:37:27 type x*y into google 17:37:33 good thing anything really gets bigger than my 160x30 terminal 17:38:04 Taneb: did that really say oklo 17:38:14 I'm... not sure 17:40:10 I... 17:40:17 I thought aquifers were more wet 17:40:30 Taneb: what happens is when you dig the rock goes all bade. 17:40:33 check the wiki for informatione 17:40:43 you don't jsut want to dig down 17:40:47 there s a trick to it 17:41:28 wonder where 80x25 comes from 17:41:49 dos 17:41:50 madbr: MS-DOS? 17:41:53 or rather bios 17:41:57 or rather ibm pc in general 17:42:15 weren't there some other terminals that had that amount of chars before? 17:42:15 VGA BIOS. 17:42:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:42:49 the width of 80 comes from the size of punch cards, which was based on the size of late-19th century american dollars, iirc 17:43:21 yeah vt100 had 80x24 chars 17:45:05 that's probably where the pc's 80x25 comes from 17:45:43 that and probably various signal timing considerations :D 17:48:03 Taneb: did you check wiki 17:48:07 Yeah 17:48:09 if not yuo're fortress will probably die 17:48:09 ok good 17:48:21 My fortress will probably die anyway 17:48:26 This is Dwarf Fortress 17:49:44 And I'm me 17:50:11 for values of probably equal to certainly 17:58:41 -!- madbrr has joined. 17:59:58 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:01:56 hmm, 320x224 used to be a very common screen res because it was easy to get it out of a standard TV 18:03:02 that's because the real tv resolution is 240 lines (from 262.5 if you count HBlank), but TVs overscan for some retarded reason so you only get about 224 18:03:21 so they decided to not make any content for those extra lines over 224 :D 18:05:13 -!- Guest28135 has changed nick to Mike. 18:05:43 -!- Mike has changed nick to Guest86467. 18:06:01 Guest86467: you can't use a name reserved by someone else, try a different name 18:07:16 -!- Guest86467 has changed nick to Guestxxxxx. 18:07:24 Hihihi 18:07:44 hi 18:07:51 mkstemp(Guestxxxxx) 18:09:31 Gregor: has to be six Xs, and they have to be capital 18:09:50 ais523: THANK YOU FOR EXAMINING MY JOKE, CAPTAIN PEDANTRY. 18:09:52 * ais523 thinks that that's a somewhat weird restriction 18:09:54 UP, UP AND AWAY 18:10:10 (also for SNES, 16 extra lines of vblank is nice) 18:10:44 (and saving 16 lines of fillrate on psx is also nice :D ) 18:13:05 ais523: In *your* system’s definition of mkstemp, sure. :-P 18:13:23 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:16:27 `quote cblink 18:16:31 825) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 18:19:42 What's a coati? 18:20:27 @google what's a coati 18:20:30 http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/2009/07/darmstadt-zoo-germany-coati-babies.html 18:20:30 Title: What's a Coati? - ZooBorns 18:22:49 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:30:32 Going now, bye 18:30:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:52:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:59:33 -!- Guestxxxxx has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 19:02:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:02:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:06:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:09:10 fuck4 forest 19:10:26 oerjan: fuck4 forest 19:11:02 oh 19:11:06 right 19:11:07 that fuck4 19:11:13 you get to tell them about preview 19:11:36 how sad that they will never know 19:12:46 ais523: you get to tell them about preview 19:13:29 oh, right 19:13:39 I missed that one of my RC entries was actually 22 condensed 19:13:59 see, everyone else should use RSS recent changes too, avoids the problem neatly :) 19:15:16 and informed 19:15:34 yay 19:17:54 http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120525/04185919074/tv-networks-file-legal-claims-saying-skipping-commercials-is-copyright-infringement.shtml 19:18:10 KMines’ clock seems to wrap around hourly. 19:18:32 ais523: how horrible is dgamelaunch 19:18:43 slightly less horrible than "horrible" 19:18:49 that doesn't sound good 19:18:52 perhaps "quirky" 19:18:55 how easy is it to set up :P 19:19:01 if you know how to set it up already, it's easy 19:19:02 (also, how much system load does it drain?) 19:19:06 if not, I recommend finding instructions somewhere 19:19:12 (rephrase: would it slow the wiki down) 19:19:31 i could just write my own server but ehhh 19:19:40 dgl itself doesn't put a huge amount of load on the server 19:19:44 things it's running might do 19:20:11 it'll put a higher load on if things produce a lot of output, because of trying to record it 19:20:31 maybe i'll disable autoexplore :P 19:25:45 ais523: would asking you questions about dgamelaunch be productive? 19:26:09 elliott: sadly, the person I find most knowledgeable about dgl at the moment is kerio 19:26:16 I'd probably refer questions to him 19:26:24 (or paxed, who's the current maintainer, but is typically very busy) 19:26:26 that's good 19:26:33 that way you get all the suffering 19:26:57 my question is: is dgamelaunch protocol-agnostic, i.e. can I run it behind anything that can start a remote process, or does it hook into telnet/ssh specially? 19:27:13 oh, I think I know that one, you configure telnet/ssh to run it 19:27:29 so I should be able to get it to run behind mosh, then 19:27:45 monqy: imagine a server that lets you know when you're lagging instead of having to mash an invalid key!!! 19:29:09 i don't think monqy is imagining hard enough 19:32:01 monqy: nice oriph 19:32:16 monqy: fire storm "considered op in light" 19:32:27 it's op in regular crawl too 19:32:28 no surprise 19:32:42 nicer range in light though 19:32:59 monqy: it's ok i'll imagine it without you 19:34:06 speaking of which: 19:34:26 kmc: is it possible to adjust how long mosh waits before complaining about lag 19:37:28 only by editing the source code 19:38:00 kmc: :( 19:38:04 how long does it normally wait? 19:38:57 don't remember 19:39:01 like 10s or so 19:39:37 bah 19:39:39 I'd rather 1-2s 19:39:43 well then 19:39:47 go ahead and change it 19:39:55 but note that the default heartbeat interval is 3s 19:40:12 i'd rather not have to get anyone who wants to use my server to patch and compile mosh 19:40:14 so if nothing is happening you will get a "lag" warning every 3s 19:40:27 the message is a client side thing 19:40:32 kmc: ok 3s is acceptable 19:40:36 so yeah, i guess they would need to compile it themselves 19:40:42 it's for a roguelike 19:40:47 in which the most annoying lag only lasts a second or two 19:41:05 and it'd be nice to be notified of it rather than having to spam a key that has some visual effect 19:41:10 to make sure you're not playing blindly 19:46:29 ANNOUNCEMENT: 19:46:31 I have a kitty. 19:46:49 oh 19:47:05 kmc: how easy would it be for the mosh server to be able to control how long to wait before complaining about lag 19:47:16 and/or how long the heartbeat interval is 19:47:45 with unmodified clients? i don't think that's possible 19:47:52 i mean 19:47:57 how easy would it be for mosh to allow that 19:48:05 soon someone is going to wonder what happened to the previous kitties. 19:48:49 elliott: i think it would not be too hard 19:49:00 kmc: yay 19:49:05 or perhaps Gregor is one of those cat ladies. 19:49:05 you would just make these parameters be part of the terminal-state object which is synchronized between client and server 19:49:16 how much do i need to yell at people to get it to happen :P 19:49:28 that depends on whether your yelling takes the form of a patch 19:49:36 i don't see a great need for this feature; maybe you can elaborate 19:49:49 well 19:49:51 20:40 it's for a roguelike 19:49:51 20:40 in which the most annoying lag only lasts a second or two 19:49:51 20:41 and it'd be nice to be notified of it rather than having to spam a key that has some visual effect 19:49:53 20:41 to make sure you're not playing blindly 19:50:04 if it waits like 10 seconds before notifying you there's lag 19:50:10 then you still have to do that a bunch 19:50:12 which is annoying 19:50:31 if I could configure the server to say "hey, heartbeat every one second and complain about lag every one second" 19:50:34 then it would be massively reduced 19:51:05 -!- oerjan has set topic: It is the year 2525 and man is still alive | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:51:42 are those digits for elliott? 19:51:49 and does he still have the keyboard problem? 19:51:49 i guess they were 19:51:58 ive just gotten really fast at copying and pasting 19:52:03 elliott: it seems more reasonable to have it be configured by the client, rather than something the server pushes to the client 19:52:05 no, the topic is anachronistic 19:52:49 kmc: fair enough, but "mosh server" is easier to tell people to type than "mosh --heartbeat=1 --lag-timeout=1 server" 19:53:04 it seems reasonable for the server to be able to specify a default 19:53:25 elliott: and thus you are discovering that mosh and telnet are designed to solve different problems 19:53:41 ais523: i don't see the relevance 19:53:47 how does telnet solve my problem any better 19:53:58 telnet does not even indicate lag at all 19:54:17 well, you can write a telnet client that does 19:54:19 (TAEB uses one) 19:55:06 mosh has other advantages too 19:55:13 I don't see why you think it's less suitable than telnet 19:55:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:56:50 it's a strange point to make, given that the mosh client already indicates lag 19:57:02 what point is strange to make? 19:57:09 that you can make a telnet client that does 19:57:14 by way of contrasting with mosh 19:57:31 oh, you were talking about ais523's point 19:57:41 i don't know what ais523 is talking about really :P 19:57:51 that was a counterargument to elliott's argument 19:58:16 which argument 19:58:21 well 19:58:25 it's your original argument that doesn't make any sense 19:58:28 i agree that mosh and telnet solve different problems though 19:58:32 what are the different problems mosh and telnet are trying to solve, in your opinion 19:58:38 and why is my problem more like the problem telnet solves than the problem mosh solves 19:58:42 (and what do you think my problem is) 19:58:52 well, things like ssh are basically based around solving /authentication/ 19:58:58 how to run a shell remotely and proving it's you 19:59:10 mosh is based around how, inside a single-user session, you can keep it connected and so on 19:59:18 telnet is more broadcasty, it allows anyone to connect without checking 19:59:24 the main difference i see is that telnet and ssh convey a reliable octet stream from one point to another 19:59:28 also, telnet is a really well-designed protocol 19:59:35 with all sorts of extensions 19:59:47 ais523: mosh does not depend on ssh 19:59:55 whereas mosh synchronizes the current state of your terminal, without regard for the past 19:59:56 and roaming is not the only advantage it offers 19:59:59 elliott: it does for auth, doesn't it? 20:00:03 ais523: only by default 20:00:06 ah, OK 20:00:15 ais523: there are two layers to mosh 20:00:34 at the lower layer you run mosh-server, it prints an AES key, then you convey that to the client securely (this is up to you) and run mosh-client 20:00:36 I don't think anyone's done much with *other* mosh authentication schemes, but the design of it (as far as I'm aware) is such that you could reasonably use anything. 20:00:50 20:59 whereas mosh synchronizes the current state of your terminal, without regard for the past 20:00:56 this is one reason I find mosh desirable, btw 20:01:08 but for the common case of authenticating over ssh, we provide a wrapper script that runs mosh-server and mosh-client for you 20:01:12 because that's likely to be more efficient at updating a changing game screen 20:01:12 is there an utility to batch convert unix text files to cr-lf format 20:01:20 and also because it means that setting your TERM to something different doesn't break spectators 20:01:23 madbrr: unix2dos 20:01:24 madbrr: unix2dos 20:01:41 ais523: oh, and I find ssh a preferable auth mechanism to telnet 20:01:42 is it console or gui 20:01:46 ais523: because sending passwords in the clear sucks 20:01:49 Console. 20:01:52 heck, many roguelike servers use ssh already 20:01:53 for the compression 20:01:56 elliott: just tell telnet to use ssl 20:02:04 "Batch convert"? GUIs suck for that. 20:02:13 ais523: i think you're trolling at this point 20:02:26 elliott: telnet with ssl is installed and currently running on nethack4.org 20:02:26 pikhq: was thinking of something more like oggdropXPd 20:02:31 ais523: i am aware of this 20:02:33 it's also irrelevant 20:02:46 ie a GUI app designed to convert a lot of files conveiniently 20:02:52 madbrr: So, you want a child's toy. 20:02:55 no 20:02:56 pikhq: there is https://github.com/dmilith/genmosh 20:03:13 I want something that's convenient 20:03:17 madbrr: for x in *.c; do unix2dos "$x"; done 20:03:19 madbrr: for i in *.txt; do unix2dos $i; done 20:03:20 and I don't really like console apps 20:03:21 the last time I looked at the code, it seemed like a security disaster 20:03:27 also I'm running win7 20:03:37 So, you want a child's toy. Got it. 20:03:43 jesus no 20:03:51 "child's toy" is a really stupid way of phrasing that 20:03:53 "hi, how can I batch convert unix to dos files? but i have to do it while blindfolded using only my left pinky toe" 20:04:03 but a console application is really going to be 10x more convenient for converting a bunch of files in batch 20:04:06 than having to select each one 20:04:13 get some real tools and then use them to solve your problem 20:04:15 kmc: more like highlight a bunch of files in explorer, drag, drop, kdone 20:04:23 faster than the stupid console 20:04:28 you realise you can drag things to console programs right 20:04:46 pikhq: so I wouldn't recommedn this genmosh to anyone ;P but it's at least an example of someone making an alt mechanism and publishing it 20:04:58 I typically use a one-liner Perl script, unix2dos never seems to be installed when I need it 20:05:01 In fact, in Windows, if you select a bunch of files and drag it onto a console program, it passes those files as arguments. 20:05:04 i wish web browsers supported ssh authentication 20:05:10 also maybe it got less disastrous 20:05:13 (/is/ unix2dos a one-liner Perl script, I wonder? never thought of checking) 20:05:18 that is 20:05:20 ssh key authentication 20:05:24 In Windows, it is possible to drag files from Explorer into the command prompt window. 20:05:38 kmc: It's a good example of the *principle* that you can implement alternate authentication. 20:05:39 pikhq: doesn't that tend to bust the command line length limit? 20:05:46 Possibly a similar program could be made for Linux too 20:05:52 pikhq: or was that just a win98 limitation 20:05:58 another good reason not to use windows :) 20:06:05 zzo38: does it depend on the version? I seem to remember that that doesn't work from Windows Vista onwards due to some complicated security thing involving messaging 20:06:18 zzo38: it already works in linux 20:06:25 madbrr: Huh, it's 32k. 20:06:26 with reasonable file browser/terminal combinations 20:06:29 well 20:06:33 dude, I compose music, the win32/64 programs for that are just much, much better than the linux ones 20:06:35 reasonable as in similar 20:06:48 madbrr: so install a real command line environment for windows 20:06:56 such as cygwin 20:06:58 no, cygwin is retarded 20:07:05 no u 20:07:09 so do you want help or do you want to complain and annoy everybody 20:07:13 if the latter, please just /part instead 20:07:17 it seems to me that you now have a task different from composing music, for which win32/64 may not be a good choice 20:07:31 madbrr: When I compose music I find the programs best which are cross-platform anyways 20:07:32 just wanted some useful nice tool 20:07:35 olsner: don't you know the old aphorism "use the right tool for one specific job I do and the wrong tool for everything else" 20:07:46 not that the operating system is really relevant at all here 20:07:50 madbrr: k, I think you have your answer by now that we don't know of one 20:07:58 madbrr: well, you've been offered several practical and convenient ways to do what you want 20:08:16 I've been offered one yes 20:08:34 multiple awyways 20:08:47 For music I use things such as MCK 20:08:50 you can convert in WordPad, I think, although not batch-convert 20:08:59 use a console program and drag stuff to it (whether the icon itself or a running console prompt); or install cygwin and use that to circumvent limits with the previous solution 20:09:02 (and also allow convenient globbing) 20:09:03 also been preached to for not liking neckbearded tools and the command line 20:09:13 no, I don't care if people don't like command lines 20:09:20 in general, GUI programs are bad at batch jobs; you can design a GUI for one specific batch job, but you can't make a general one to handle batch-ising of jobs 20:09:22 I care if people complaing when they're suggested for good and justified reasons and then just yell and insult people 20:09:25 like you're doing now 20:09:29 I don't think there's a GUI version of xargs, nor can even figure out how one would work 20:09:31 so, just go away 20:09:39 There's also the option of reporting bugs in a bunch of software: programs SHOULD support most reasonable newline conventions. 20:09:48 ais: for some very specific case you'll have to use batch scripts yeah 20:10:12 ais523: Select a group of files, drag them to an executable. By GUI convention, that behaves like xargs. 20:10:17 and even not in those cases, I often do anyway because it's a much simpler and faster way of expressing what I want 20:10:17 Gregor: we already suggested that 20:10:25 Gregor: that behaves like xargs for opening files 20:10:26 madbrr isn't happy because it involves a console window popping up at some point presumably 20:10:30 and then he'd be a neckbeard!!! 20:10:31 is there an equivalent for performing transformations? 20:10:37 I'm not REALLY reading, this conversation is very stupid. 20:11:00 elliott: nah, drag and drop to console apps is fine 20:11:11 ...then why are you still complaining 20:11:15 that was the second thing suggested 20:11:28 "neckbearded tool" 20:11:42 I find usually even drag/drop not needed since you can use wildcards and/or tab completion, but sometimes dragging the files to the command-line window is very useful 20:12:19 zzo38: Yes, but you're not offended by the idea of using a command line tool. :) 20:12:56 Even if using a system that does not support dragging between windows, if there is a clipboard (such as the X clipboard or whatever) you can make it that whatever files are selected their full paths goes on the clipboard. 20:13:24 Probably the PRIMARY buffer, so that you can then middle-click the terminal emulator window to paste the names there. 20:15:03 sounds like a neckbearded solution 20:15:57 someone hecked my aim and it gave me a neckbeard 20:15:59 uhhhh 20:16:05 what else have we been referencing for the past 17 years 20:16:33 someone hecked my aim and it trapped me in a matrix of solidity, causing me to grow a neckbeard 20:16:37 what is a neckbeard anyway? 20:16:55 i think the clue's in the name 20:18:01 seems to me that neckbeard should either be just "beard" or just "hair" 20:18:08 depending on which side of the neck you're referring to 20:19:02 Vorpal: statring forth <-- thanks 20:19:18 Vorpal: i think thinking forth is meant to be better 20:19:21 but i don't recall exactly 20:19:23 (same author) 20:19:24 and you can use oonbotti's interactive forth interpreter <-- I'm learning forth because I need to use it, so I already have a target implementation in mind 20:19:26 (i've read neither) 20:19:34 Vorpal: forth implementations tend to differ wildly 20:19:40 what is the one you are planning to use? 20:20:00 olsner: it's a specific kind of beard 20:20:17 elliott, you know about the minecraft mod redpower2? Adds a fully emulated 6802 running forth into minecraft. :) 20:20:24 (as of the last version) 20:20:28 i don;t have a beard. there's just a black hole underneath my face 20:20:36 Vorpal: ok well the chances that's ans forth are pretty low i'd say 20:20:55 elliott, I looked at it, and it looks like pre ans forth yeah. 20:21:02 elliott has been a singularitarian too long 20:21:09 hmm, based on the internet, I think I've identified my usual beard as a neckbeard 20:21:44 but I'm not sure... am I supposed to shave my face but leave my neck, for it to become a neckbeard? 20:21:45 Vorpal: then any intro book will probably cease being useful to you after a sufficient number of chapters 20:21:51 elliott, anyway that mod is cool, you can put redwire (basically better behaved redstone dust, that doesn't fade so quickly, can be insulated, can run on walls and much more) 20:21:53 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:26 elliott, I just need help getting started with the basics really. 20:22:52 olsner: i think the idea is that a neckbeard is an extension of a regular beard.. 20:23:05 Yeah, redpower is awesomeness. 20:23:24 its the first time ive heard that word though 20:24:23 elliott, also that mod has probably the lowest density memory ever: 8K expansion modules connected to the backplane, each module a full cubic meter! 20:25:00 Vorpal: By Minecraft standards that's impossibly high density. 20:25:09 quite! 20:25:12 im not so sure now 20:25:40 pikhq, looked at Mystcraft btw? It is basically a mod that lets you write books linking to new dimensions (with certain properties you discover by experimenting and can then use at will), in Myst style 20:25:43 quite a nice mod 20:25:44 Vorpal: Little bit. 20:25:47 Pretty neat. 20:26:05 Vorpal: Checked out frames in RP? 20:26:07 other great mod: logistics pipes (addon for buildcraft). 20:26:27 pikhq, that is what I'm going to use my forth skills (that I'm planning to learn) for. 20:26:39 Good choice. :) 20:26:48 automated mining machine. With the enterchest mod to move stuff back to base. 20:27:11 :) 20:27:19 hm I have a lot of mods installed. Using the multimc launcher currently, it is really good. 20:27:43 handles installing the mods for you, you just drag the zip files into it and it handles the rest 20:27:46 I use some hacked up shell scripts. :) 20:27:56 pikhq, I'm too lazy for that 20:28:16 anyway I needed something that was cross platform, since I sometimes dual boot one computer to windows 20:28:41 pikhq, anyway: used logistics pipes? 20:28:45 Oh yeah. 20:28:48 It is t3h awesome. 20:29:17 I have like 250 auto crafting tables set up along the walls of a room, with logistics pipes connected to them 20:29:31 only issue is that the request interface gets clunking with that many recipes 20:30:23 but still, many mod recipes are downright annoying. Like the frame motors.... Oh and the wireless redstone ones (another mod, using the one that integrates with redpower) 20:31:56 like you need to make an obsidian stick, then a "reather pearl" (sp?), then combine those. Then combine that with a stone bowl you just crafted. Now you have an antenna dish. And that is just about half the work of a transmitter or a reciever... 20:32:32 hm, actually that is for receiver, there is no dish for the transmitter 20:32:53 pikhq, anyway, which mods do you play with? 20:35:44 I think the bigs ones ATM are RP, IC, BC, logistics pipes, EE... 20:36:15 personally: in jar: modloader, forge, mystcraft, NEI (for displaying recipes and for cheating in my test world), rei minimap, optifine. In mods/: buildcraft, equivalent exchange, ender chests, forestry, industrialcraft, invtweaks, laser mod, logistics pipe, compact solars (IC2 addon), ironchests, railcraft, redpower, treecapitator, WR-CBE (that is the wireless redstone one), somnia (so time is simulated 20:36:16 while you sleep). Plus a few smaller buildcraft addons. 20:36:40 oh and I forgot that IC2 addon that adds like induction furnace tire machines for macerator and so on 20:37:12 I used to use the portal gun mod too. It is fun but a bit overpowered for survival... 20:38:13 pikhq, you should try out railcraft. It is kind of neat. A bit more useful in SMP though I feel, since you don't tend to get cities to travel between in single player 20:38:38 still, stuff like elevator rails are cool :) 20:40:05 You guys are still playing MC? 20:40:05 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:40:17 Phantom_Hoover: On occasion. 20:40:21 Phantom_Hoover, only heavily modded MC. Wouldn't play vanilla any longer 20:40:32 and not as much as I used to 20:40:35 What happens, really, is sometimes I get in the mood and play for a while, and then leave it abandoned for a while. 20:40:55 played fallout new vegas today a lot. And a bit of MC 20:41:25 Phantom_Hoover, I found I roughly play every other release of MC. 20:41:50 I hardly touched 1.1, did quite a bit on 1.0 and I am now playing 1.2.5 quite a bit 20:44:23 pikhq, btw I found that an issue with EE is that it pretty much makes any other sort of resource acquirement pointless once you reach the EE endgame. I could just slap down a mark 3 collector next to a energy condenser and set it to generate diamonds, then hook up a provider logistics pipe. And I no longer need to mine any diamonds... 20:45:06 Vorpal: By the time you hit the EE endgame, resource acquisition is just an annoyance anyways. 20:45:11 well yeah 20:45:36 pikhq, but I hit it before redpower frames were added, so now I'm kind of hard pressed to find a use for my frames :P 20:46:49 currently I have more red matter in my automated farm for that than I know what to do with. I started transmuting the stuff into pedestals to save space! 20:47:05 (I don't like throwing away EMC) 20:47:51 -!- FluffBall has changed nick to Zuu. 20:48:52 pikhq, of course, since I have forestry I have not even reached close to the endgame of THAT. God damn bees with 8% chance of mutation... 20:49:34 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:49:41 ah, read the log :) 20:51:01 pikhq_, every tried the forestry mod? 20:52:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:53:07 it is a nice kind-of-addon to buildcraft (it used to be an addon, but now it is technically freestanding, though significantly more useful with buildcraft). It adds biofuel for example, as an alternative to the finite oil resource of buildcraft. 20:54:00 also adds stuff like reed farms, tree farms, peat farms and what not. Oh and *really* in-depth beekeeping. 20:59:12 -!- calamari has joined. 21:00:01 My new hobby http://youtu.be/_aW6d46VbpM 21:01:22 ion, did the guy inside survive? 21:02:20 I know as much as you do. 21:03:29 ion: Your new hobby is killing yourself in stupid ways? 21:03:45 gregor: Yes, preferably losing an arm in the process. 21:04:45 "derka derka allah jihad [+18]" the only thing stupider than youtube comments is the people who upvote youtube comments 21:04:56 have you heard that ELKS has got an update? 21:05:04 Gregor, I'm just amazed that guy didn't kill anyone else as well 21:06:10 Besides, the quote is "derka derka muhammed jihad". 21:06:35 elliott: Verily. 21:07:20 pikhq_: it doesn't really matter what the quote is 21:07:54 Course, that movie was really, really stupid... 21:21:43 nortti: Weird, I'd have assumed ELKS to be pretty dead. 21:22:20 fizzie: me too. but they got release out after 6 years 21:23:45 Maybe it's some sort of a zombie kernel. 21:25:08 maybe. they also got it to git and left cvs behind 21:25:56 can elks even run git 21:26:49 I don't think so 21:27:37 they also got a new project: busyelks. it is busybox style thingie for elks. 21:29:57 which ELKS? 21:30:38 Vorpal: Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset 21:30:45 Does ELKS still use bcc? They should switch to owcc ... 21:30:49 heh, never heard of that one even 21:30:49 it's 21:30:55 Embeddable Linux Kernel System, isn't it 21:30:57 nortti, so something like µclinux? 21:30:59 oh the website disagrees with itself 21:31:05 Gregor: they still use bcc 21:31:17 Vorpal: basicaly. but for 8086 21:31:22 ah 21:31:38 hm wasn't/isn't there a C compiler frontend with a name just like ELKS? 21:31:53 something very close anyway? 21:33:04 urgh... need to sleep, just feel half asleep on top of my keyboard for a few seconds... 21:33:05 bye 21:34:55 i love microsleeps 21:36:55 It’s fun when you happen to be pushing some key at the time you fall to microsleep. 21:37:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:37:11 As in, “it’s fun when you happppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp” 21:37:25 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:37:41 happpppy happpppy fun 21:38:30 You might not even notice you took a short nap except that a bunch of repeated letters suddenly appeared on your screen. 21:45:02 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:45:25 first set my hands in the right place, then type with my eyes shu.. and, little errors may start to creep in.. 21:45:40 its god if you just typing to type 21:47:57 the trouble is overcompensating if you think you held a key too long 21:48:43 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:48:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:50:08 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:50:17 -!- derdon has joined. 21:50:17 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:51:00 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:56:56 Gregor: is owcc open watcom? what kind of license they have? 21:57:27 yes, it is 22:09:19 * Sgeo is watching an IWBTG blind LP for some reason 22:17:07 nortti: Yes, Open Watcom. It's under a wonky but usable license, FSF-rejected but OSI-approved because it actually /requires/ that you publish changes you make in certain circumstances where you don't even publish the binaries. 22:17:33 Gregor: bleh, that's dfsg-violating 22:17:45 why would the OSI approve that? it's evil 22:18:03 dfsg-violating? 22:18:21 Yeah, it's not a great license X-D 22:18:25 @google dfsg wikipedia 22:18:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines 22:18:27 Title: Debian Free Software Guidelines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 22:18:42 it fails the desert islnad test 22:18:43 *island 22:21:19 and the dissident test 22:24:10 * shachaf sighs. 22:24:23 if (!strcmp, name, EXPECTED) { 22:24:30 I was wondering why my code was being odd. 22:24:59 Um, wow. 22:25:02 shachaf: what :D 22:25:09 Should've been compiling with -Wall 22:30:23 shachaf: Well, it is *valid* C, at least. 22:30:30 :) 22:30:35 pikhq_: That's the problem. :-( 22:40:39 strictly conforming, isn't it? 22:40:44 Yes. 22:40:55 shachaf++ 22:40:57 It's *silly* behavior, but it's quite well-defined. 22:41:03 working on the IOCCC are we 22:41:15 (silly in the sense of "nobody would intentionally do this") 22:43:37 oerjan: "valid" means "strictly conforming" in the context of C :P 22:43:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:44:23 elliott: ah. 22:44:37 does gcc -Wall actually catch that 22:44:40 Yes. 22:44:51 warning: the address of ‘strcmp’ will always evaluate as ‘true’ [-Waddress] 22:45:01 warning: left-hand operand of comma expression has no effect [-Wunused-value] 22:45:43 ah nice 22:48:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 22:48:00 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:49:23 -!- nortti_ has joined. 22:52:07 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 22:53:00 What now? 22:53:12 we were severely under quota here 22:53:15 kmc: Are syscalls actually made through the VDSO? 22:53:35 `quote 22:53:36 `quote 22:53:37 `quote 22:53:38 537) elliott_, oh they are people known in the ruby community? Vorpal: Uh... you mean Hannah Montana? elliott_, yeah. And Zed Shaw. Either they are that or they come from popular culture. 22:53:39 `quote 22:53:40 `quote 22:53:41 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:53:46 411) Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are Damn right! 22:53:48 195) That is the mark of Gregor right there. tswett: except that Gregor didn't write that It's still the mark of Gregor. 22:53:56 718) The only way you could do better would be to implement Monopoly with chocolate. 22:53:59 39) [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective 22:54:04 411 imo 22:54:05 ais523? 22:54:09 shachaf: on Linux i386 it's the current preferred mechanism, though direct int $0x80 still works 22:54:10 either that or 195 22:54:11 elliott: I was about to say 411 22:54:15 or 537 22:54:20 i like 537 22:54:20 I like 195 22:54:24 `delquote 411 22:54:27 ​*poof* Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are Damn right! 22:54:30 bleh, you ninja'd me 22:54:32 shachaf: on Linux amd64 you use the 'syscall' instruction directly, and the VDSO is only for userspace "vsyscalls" like gettimeofday 22:54:38 kmc: Ah, but on amd64 it just uses the syscall instruction? 22:54:44 good thing I managed to cancel typing that, or I'd have to revert the deltion of the new 411 22:54:46 `quote 411 22:54:48 Yes, that's what it was looking like. 22:54:49 411) " Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P 22:54:55 `pastefortunes 22:55:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7017 22:55:04 oh well, that one's deleratble too :) 22:55:08 no 22:55:09 leave it 22:55:15 you must leave quotes that get their meaning removed 22:55:15 So where can I get a guaranteed executable syscall instruction in the address space? :-( 22:55:26 I guess the VDSO (a) still has them and (b) isn't guaranteed. 22:55:34 shachaf: i don't have any new ideas since last time 22:55:39 `quote 410 22:55:42 410) decrypt 'illustrates the "can do" approach of conservatism in a patriotic way' 22:55:55 I mean Intel 64®, not amd64. 22:56:03 Or is that Intel® 64? 22:56:10 itanium 22:56:12 it works on both 22:56:13 Better go with Intel® 64® just to be safe. 22:56:29 "intel 64" ≠ ia64 22:56:33 Right. 22:56:55 basically 22:57:00 just assume the names are maximally confusing 22:57:09 intell's 64bit x86 CPUs are actually amd64 CPUs 22:57:23 -l 22:57:34 Yes, and they're also Intel® 64® CPUs. 22:57:49 Did you figure out an answer to newsham's question? 22:57:52 elliott: Or you! 22:58:03 pclmullqlqdq 22:58:11 What was newsham's question? 22:58:26 elliott: It was about how you can figure out the cardinalities of polymorphic types. 22:58:41 -!- JKL1234- has joined. 22:58:53 `welcome JKL1234- 22:58:56 JKL1234-: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:58:56 For example, forall a. a -> a has one inhabitant, and forall a. a -> a -> a has 2. 22:59:14 Can you do a pseudo-algebraic thing like you normally do with cardinalities to figure it out? 22:59:22 a -> (a -> b) -> a -> b is also 2 22:59:40 JKL1234-: What brings you here? 22:59:56 -!- JKL1234- has left. 23:00:08 That was a short visit. 23:00:31 shachaf, which two? 23:00:39 Apply is one, obviously. 23:00:47 Phantom_Hoover: There are two "a"s to apply. 23:01:00 Oh, duh. 23:03:17 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:03:22 shachaf: You need parametricity for that. 23:03:23 i.e. you can't prove it everywhere that the algebraic type law stuff applies. 23:03:23 presumably it's true in system F 23:03:23 I have thought of things like that too; with things like (forall x. x -> x -> x -> x -> x -> x) the cardinality is how many -> there are. And do you know what kind of function (forall x. [x] -> Maybe x) is? 23:04:03 zzo38: the latter could branch on length to select which element, if any, to use? 23:04:13 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:04:19 oerjan: Yes. 23:04:28 although it needs to have an upper bound if you allow infinite lists 23:04:28 (a -> a) -> a -> a is Nat 23:04:50 shachaf: Yes, that is church natural numbers 23:06:52 oerjan: What it seems to me is that if the input and output are treated as natural numbers, then the type constrains output to be less than or equal to the input 23:06:53 shachaf: for a start, you can try to construct the adt it emulates, like a -> a -> a means there are two constructors with no arguments 23:07:18 (a -> a) -> a -> a means there are two constructors, the first takes an argument of the same type 23:07:31 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:07:32 (i.e. Succ and Zero) 23:08:27 zzo38: well yes that's one way of looking at it 23:13:18 --- google.com ping statistics --- 23:13:21 27 packets transmitted, 23 received, 14% packet loss, time 42327ms 23:13:21 rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 17.485/31.434/156.107/32.597 ms 23:13:26 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:34 there is something wrong with this connection, right? 23:14:05 oerjan: Well, is there the other way? 23:15:07 hmm it seems like all stack based data manipulation cam be defined using : ; >R R@ R> BEGIN WHILE LOOP IF EPSE THEN - > 23:15:17 *cab 23:15:23 *can 23:15:33 (in forth) 23:15:41 *ELSE 23:15:55 And maybe you mean REPEAT instead of LOOP 23:16:04 also, I'm again reminded that TCP can function even in cases of heavy packet loss 23:16:18 zzo38: yes 23:17:00 oh and with AND bitwise arimethrics can be implemented 23:17:21 zzo38: they're presumably all equivalent... 23:17:22 ais523: not very well, though 23:18:12 ( : NOT 0 SWAP - 1 - ; : NAND AND NOT ; ) 23:18:13 well, yes, but what would work better? 23:18:28 and 14% isn't as bad as it could be, it mostly just confuses slow-start and that sort of thing 23:19:12 But I guess I can see how they work : DUP >R R@ R> ; : DROP IF THEN ; 23:20:41 zzo38: actually : DROP DUP - - ; 23:21:12 : + >R 0 R> - - ; 23:21:31 Yes, that works too 23:22:17 ( that is how it is implemented in oonbotti's forth ) 23:22:31 And even if you don't have 0 if you only have 1 you can still make : 0 1 1 - ; 23:23:48 actually even without numbers : + >R DUP DUP - R> - - ; 23:26:45 also numbers can easily be defined with if you have 0 1+ 23:27:51 $ : 2DUP >R R@ OVER R> ; 23:28:08 $ 1 2 2DUP . . . . 23:28:08 2 1 2 1 23:29:29 $ : ROT >R SWAP R> SWAP ; 23:29:51 $ 1 2 3 ROT . . . 23:29:52 1 3 2 23:31:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:32:51 : > < NOT ; : = 2DUP > -ROT < OR ; 23:35:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:35:07 forth is pretty awesome because how much of it can be derived from so little 23:36:28 Forth is awesome because when people call it "simple" they're not lying. 23:37:41 : 0 R@ DUP - ; 23:37:51 :P 23:39:27 and with that and 1+ we can define : 1 0 1+ ; 23:41:12 : 2 1 1+ ; : 3 2 1+ ; : 4 2 2 * ; : 5 4 1+ ; : 6 2 3 * ; and so on and so on 23:43:46 Why does strcpy(dst, src) return dst? 23:43:51 That's such a useless value to return. 23:44:05 shachaf: no it isn't 23:44:13 you may well want to assign it to something 23:44:36 So assign dst to that something. 23:44:45 A much more useful value might be dst + strlen(src) 23:45:01 i agree w/ shachaf 23:45:10 strcpy is practically broken because of that 23:45:14 Or void. void would be better than always returning the first argument. :-( 23:45:45 shachaf: Yes I agree, dst + strlen(src) would probably be better 23:46:12 `quotw 195 23:46:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotw: not found 23:46:16 `quote 195 23:46:19 195) That is the mark of Gregor right there. tswett: except that Gregor didn't write that It's still the mark of Gregor. 23:46:31 `quote self 23:46:34 43) I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly \ 88) so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? \ 106) if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect ^ I learned that trick from atheists 23:47:23 So, did quote 195 actually happen, or is HackEgo hallucinating? 23:47:43 hi HackEgo 23:47:45 HackEgo 23:47:46 hmm, it'd be entirely possible to produce a klein bottle that doesn't self-intersect by using time as the remaining dimension 23:47:53 but might be quite mechanically awkward to create one 23:48:03 tswett: it probably just run out of space on the line 23:48:20 `quotificate ais523 23:48:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotificate: not found 23:48:30 Yes, but my logs for freenode don't contain the phrase "mark of Gregor" except as said by HackEgo in that quote. 23:48:49 perhaps you weren't there when you said it 23:48:50 Try a case-insensitive search. 23:49:01 `pastlog ..:..:..: ais523++ 23:49:31 Perhaps someone else said it in my name? 23:49:34 No output. 23:49:42 I'm checking my local logs (of every channel), because I'm in the quote too 23:49:49 perhaps it wasn't in #esoteric 23:49:54 * shachaf gasps. 23:50:04 My hard drive is only 750GB. 23:50:22 I once contemplated getting a 1TB hard drive, so I assumed that it must be 1TB. 23:50:41 [Monday, December 06, 2010] [06:50:33 pm] It's still the mark of Gregor. 23:50:56 in #esoteric 23:50:59 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:51:02 Ah. My logs stop three weeks before that. 23:51:06 that'll be UTC not glogbot-stupid-timezone 23:51:20 stupid glogbot !! 23:51:27 Well, I have a strict one-year limit on identity. 23:51:35 heh, that quote was 270 for a while 23:51:39 tswett: I have a 15-second limit! 23:51:43 in 2010 23:51:46 and it's 195 nowadays 23:51:51 my logs didn't capture any numbers in between 23:51:52 If something was done by someone more than one year ago, it was not done by me. 23:52:17 @quote tswett 23:52:18 No quotes match. That's something I cannot allow to happen. 23:53:20 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:53:50 00:51 that'll be UTC not glogbot-stupid-timezone 23:53:56 @tell ais523 glogbot's stupid timezone is UTC 23:53:57 Consider it noted. 23:55:23 elliott: oh, I dropped a few status updates here, too :) The event went fine, the voluntary exercises ran for a couple of weeks, no one really cared to do them, so I quit giving them. 23:55:58 atehwa: Aw, that's a shame. 23:56:03 Good to hear the event went well, though. 23:56:04 So, to summarise: consciousness about esolangs was heightened, there was nice participation across different universities, it was fun, and not very much else resulted. :) 23:56:19 Sounds like the esolangs community in general 23:56:26 no surprise :) 23:57:33 actually, the event was really fun. They posed a lot of good questions, both the likes of "how would you do this in Thue?" and the likes of "is there something that uses videos as source code"? 23:57:58 oh nooooo I got the quotes and the question mark the wrong way 2012-05-27: 00:02:16 kmc: This code had a macro of the form special_debug_printf(("%s", args)). I didn't notice the extra () and #defined special_debug_printf printf. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on. Maybe you can use that for your underhanded code thing! 00:02:21 * shachaf is mostly just annoyed at this code. 00:04:29 shachaf: that's for c89 compat 00:06:13 @quote Warrigal 00:06:13 Warrigal says: Hey, the module loaded. I didn't expect that. 00:06:29 That... was probably funny in context? 00:06:32 @quote factorial 00:06:32 jcreigh says: i mean if someone says factorial should be of type String -> [(Float, Bool)], you should just tell them they're nuts > let fac n = map (\x -> (x, True)) $ scanl (* 00:06:32 ) 1 [1..(read n)] in fac "5" :: [(Float, Bool)] 00:07:11 @quote my factorial function 00:07:11 No quotes for this person. My mind is going. I can feel it. 00:17:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:23:46 Who here is good at naming git branches? :( 00:24:15 Me! 00:24:23 I like to name them ee1de02f4cc67f0d5d6a2ed0b3b03c9e6fa5c5a7 00:24:33 Or 2ee1eb0e876e64adf0c35a05ac63c785cfb23cdc 00:32:10 -!- nortti_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:33:27 I have only ever posted updates of files (and new files) to git, not branches 01:04:05 atehwa: Well, you can put the idea about videos on the esolang wiki list of ideas if you want to 01:04:37 oh, I didn't know such a list existed 01:04:42 why not :) 01:04:45 It's a mess. 01:04:47 But it exists. 01:04:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas 01:05:04 shachaf: I have looked at underhanded C codes and easily find the errors in most cases 01:05:05 it sounds like one, right from the topic :) 01:06:06 elliott: It used to be even more mess; it is better now. And still, I think it is good the way it is; ideas with a lot more completion can go to separate pages which can be written better if you have that 01:06:18 It is slightly less of a mess. 01:06:23 Slightly. 01:06:29 But then it got more messy again. 01:07:27 * ion reads http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas and patents them all! 01:09:04 zzo38: where did you find these codes 01:09:23 Method and system for implementing a compiler for a programming language based on graphics represented in the American Standard Code for Information Interchange 01:10:03 kmc: I forget 01:12:14 In programs that take a random stream of bits to generate random integers within a range, and if the range is not a power of two, would you deal with the uniformness of the generator? 01:13:38 Ugh. 01:13:52 I may not like the situation with "web applications" these days. 01:14:12 But I'm glad we're not in the days of CGI scripts written in C anymore. 01:14:27 shachaf: Are you writing a CGI script in C? 01:14:39 elliott: No, I'm reading a CGI script written in C. 01:14:40 shachaf: I don't like either. But even recently I have written a CGI script in C. 01:14:43 I guess it's not a "script". 01:16:43 TeXnicard uses the following algorithm for random number generator: unsigned int r=max_uint-(max_uint%limit); for(;;) { @; @; } 01:18:37 hmm 01:18:52 what sort of language can you make out of only 2 symbols 01:19:00 Binary 01:19:17 There is also Jot, which uses 0 and 1 and then eventually ends 01:19:28 and is crazy functionnal stuff? :D 01:19:40 :D 01:19:47 I miss monqy. :-( 01:20:23 so 01:20:31 who composes music in here 01:20:40 I sometimes do 01:20:46 But Gregor probably does more 01:20:59 cool 01:21:12 -!- TheJimmyJames has joined. 01:21:15 yeah I think gregor does sheet music, especially piano 01:21:23 `welcome TheJimmyJames 01:21:26 TheJimmyJames: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:21:42 zzo: what sort of music do you do? 01:21:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:22:45 madbrr: I do four-part chorale on paper, I also do monophonic music on QBASIC using PLAY command, and some using Bohlen-Pierce as well using PlayBP which is a subroutine I made up for that purpose 01:23:38 never tried bohlen-pierce 01:24:01 I have experimented with other temperaments as well 01:24:56 I have also written some polyphonic music using PPMCK 01:25:31 as of yet the most interesting I've found was using modified scale for some melodic instument, over equal temperament chords 01:26:01 especially the arabic-ish kind of scale where you detune stuff like 3rds and 6ths more towards "neutral" intervals 01:26:30 ppmck is the one for making NES music right? 01:26:34 Yes 01:26:56 yeah I've mostly used converters for my nes stuff 01:27:10 I have also made some changes to PPMCK, so that a subroutine call followed by return from subroutine is just replaced by a jump instruction instead 01:27:20 What converters? 01:27:44 the s3m2nsf / it2nsf / supernsf family 01:30:51 -!- augur has joined. 01:31:48 supernsf is particularly ridiculous 01:31:54 lets you cheat way too much :D 01:31:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ZEczIYbUQ <- supernsf 01:32:03 Cheat? 01:33:35 notice anything about the dpcm? :D 01:34:27 Do you mean it converts WAV to DPCM and plays that as the music? 01:35:34 well, you could do that but it's cooler even 01:35:56 the song fits in like 200k 01:36:57 Have you ever sent anything to Famicompo or Famicompo Mini? 01:37:14 yes the song I linked to was in famicompo mini 01:37:34 What volume and number? I have the entire Famicompo Mini on my computer so I can easily find it 01:37:59 the last one 01:38:26 I mean, what volume number, section (cover or original), and entry number? 01:38:41 famicompo 8 cover 63 01:38:54 OK 01:40:37 OK now I can see 01:42:47 can't be one huge dpcm sample for the whole tune, would be much larger than 200k 01:42:57 Yes I can see what is done now 01:43:36 it's a software mixer and reampler for the NES 01:43:45 it uses 100% cpu :D 01:44:20 Does that mean you cannot include the music in a game? 01:44:30 yeah you couldn't put that in a gaime 01:44:35 since it uses 100% 01:45:25 does nothing else than resample 2~4 channels of sound, apply volume, mix, write to the DPCM port to set position 01:45:50 and from time to time interpret a music data command (to change the sample freq or volume or the NES channels) 01:45:52 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:12 the song has like one sample for each word ("smoke" "wee-" "-eed" "ev-" "-ery" "day"), so all the silly echoes and harmonizations are all sequenced :D 01:49:48 hey hey smoke weed everyday 01:51:09 O, that's what they are saying. I found the speech difficult to understand at first 01:51:43 yeah it's a recent silly meme on youtube 01:52:27 use samples from that one time snoop dogg says "smoke weed everyday" without any instrumental backing and fit that over random VGM :D 01:53:18 "Only thing is... wouldn't that be against the Big Beat Manifesto?" 01:53:19 "Have you read the Big Beat Manifesto lately? The Big Beat Manifesto goes, 'Big beats are the best, get high all the time.'" 01:59:47 also did fcm8 original 40, fcm7 original 1 & 71, fcm6 original 19 cover 37 & 42, fcm5 original 58 cover 8, fcm classical original 22 02:02:39 I do like fcm8 original 40 and fcm7 original 1, I don't like fcm8 cover 63 much though. 02:03:08 that's pretty dumb 02:03:24 i can see the humor of adding "smoke weed every day" to a vgm track 02:03:38 but adding a poorly autotuned sample on every note? 02:03:48 that just gets annoying fast 02:04:19 autotuned? 02:04:37 kmc: Do you have the entire Famicompo Mini on your computer? 02:04:41 no 02:04:53 anyways it's mostly for the meme value (and because the moon is a nice song) 02:10:24 "for the meme value" is a completely bankrupt rationale 02:10:56 "why do you keep giving people herpes?" "for the herpes value!" 02:11:46 Why do you keep giving people herps? For the derps value! 02:13:41 herps derps 02:14:54 kmc: If everyone had herpes, you wouldn't have to worry about giving/getting herpes anymore! 02:14:59 Herpes: The Great Equalizer. 02:15:34 Smoke weed every day. 02:17:16 If everyone was dead, you wouldn't have to worry about killing/being killed anymore! 02:17:21 Death: The Great Equalizer. 02:26:29 If the Earth didn't exist, you wouldn't have to worry about it orbiting the Sun anymore! 02:28:13 Spontaneous planetary cessation: The Great Equalizer. 02:32:54 Can you remind me what the command is in C to access the current UNIX timestamp? 02:34:08 I am going to add a support for a timer to Internet Quiz Engine. 02:34:54 zzo38: time_t time(time_t *t); 02:35:42 what's the point of time(2)'s pointer argument? 02:35:52 I have no *clue*. 02:36:12 The *semantics* are that, if t is non-NULL, it'll store its return value in there, too. 02:36:17 right 02:36:19 Why you would want this is beyond me. 02:36:45 Especially since C allows assignments inside of other expressions 02:39:48 Hmm, does strace replace the VDSO with its a little tracing function or something? 02:42:36 don't believe so 02:42:43 i don't think you see gettimeofday(2) in strace 02:43:03 you might see it in ltrace assuming it's being called through libc 02:43:14 -!- MDude has joined. 02:44:05 shachaf: it uses ptrace 02:44:46 elliott: I know it uses ptrace. That means that it only sees actual system calls that go to the kernel. 02:44:55 -!- MSleep has joined. 02:44:57 that's right 02:45:06 I do see time(NULL) calls in strace. 02:45:13 But maybe that's not done through gettimeofday(2). 02:45:32 i know the VDSO handles gettimeofday and clock_gettime but I don't know about time 02:45:38 madbrr: All of the files you mentioned are very good; the only one you did that I don't like much is fcm8 cover 63 02:45:45 on my amd64 system I don't see gettimeofday calls unless I build a static binary 02:46:29 static binaries don't use vsyscalls but I think on i386 they still use the VDSO for regular syscalls 02:46:47 * shachaf wonders why the VDSO even exists. 02:46:57 on i386 you get an ELF auxv entry for the start of the VDSO ELF in memory, and another auxv entry for the syscall entry point 02:46:59 I mean, as opposed to doing it in libc. 02:47:02 on amd64 you get only the first of those 02:47:07 Is it just so the kernel can generate the code once at boot? 02:48:19 ??? 02:48:27 Oh no, other MDude isn't timing out. 02:48:40 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDuck. 02:48:46 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:48:49 /msg nickserv ghost MDude 02:49:23 the userspace code immediately surrounding the call into ring 0 is basically kernel implementation details 02:49:31 it makes sense to let that change with the kernel, not with libc 02:49:39 Someone else registered MDude sometime before I showed up, I was just using the nick because I use it elsewhere. 02:49:53 ditto the implementation of gettimeofday etc, which read kernel data structures 02:49:54 It could be that whoever actually registered it showed up. 02:50:01 kmc: libc is already really closely coupled with the kernel. 02:50:18 it's a nicer option than making the locations and layouts of those "internal" data structures part of the stable ABI 02:50:24 shachaf: not to this degree, I think 02:50:32 Unless he just joined right before elliott notes that something uses ptrace. 02:50:40 *noted 02:51:10 Oh hey look he disconnected while I wasn't paying attention. 02:51:14 -!- MDuck has changed nick to MDude. 02:51:14 MDuck: You can check by NS INFO and WHOIS commands, some information about someone else with that nickname 02:51:41 I'll try to remember. 02:51:47 shachaf: the VDSO makes particular sense for SYSENTER 02:52:38 when userspace invokes the SYSENTER instruction, the CPU jumps to kernel code in ring 0 without saving the userspace instruction pointer (or code segment) 02:52:41 kmc: Right, because the address has to be known. 02:52:52 (But then the VDSO can't be randomized anymore, can it?) 02:52:55 which means that practically a) you should have only one SYSENTER instruction in all of userspace, and b) the kernel needs to know where it is 02:52:56 (Well, I guess it can.) 02:53:08 shachaf: I was just thinking about that, but I worked it out 02:53:17 because the kernel knows where the VDSO is mapped in each process's spacj 02:53:19 space* 02:53:20 Right. 02:53:27 Hence my second line. :-) 02:53:32 What's [vsyscall], then? 02:53:50 whereas, if the SYSENTER instruction were in vanilla libc code, there would have to be an extra mechanism for telling the kernel where it is 02:54:04 not like Linux is averse to such mechanisms (*cough* set_robust_list(2) *cough*) 02:54:15 No manual entry for set_robust_list 02:54:28 http://lwn.net/Articles/172149/ 02:54:28 Did you know that in Haskell, you can make up the Kleisli category for Set to be an instance of Category, even though Set cannot be an instance of Monad? 02:54:58 zzo38: No. How can you do that? 02:55:04 shachaf: [vsyscall] is the old non-randomized VDSO-like thing 02:55:49 shachaf: http://sprunge.us/CDAB 02:57:45 You're using an existential type? 02:57:48 Seems kind of od.d 02:58:27 shachaf: these days it contains only short sequences like "mov $0x60, %rax; syscall; ret" 02:58:57 it's a compatibility layer only, which goes through the slow "real" syscall path 02:58:57 shachaf: Well, it does work. 02:59:36 kmc: Oh, I can use this for the debugger thing, then. 02:59:45 ah, that's true! 02:59:46 It's not even randomized so it's much nicer. 02:59:54 I guess a process *could* still unmap it. 03:00:06 But it should work for any "reasonable" program. 03:00:38 Why is dumping [vdso]/[vsyscall] such a hassle. :-( 03:00:48 shachaf: Where is zzo38 using an existential type there? 03:00:55 shachaf: here's a puzzle: why can you do memcpy(buf, vsyscall, 4096); write(1, buf, 4096); 03:01:02 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:01:04 but not write(1, vsyscall, 4096); 03:01:05 elliott: Wait, it's not an existential type. 03:01:15 elliott: Never mind. 03:01:19 (where char *vsyscall = (char*) 0xffffffffff600000) 03:01:23 kmc: I was just wondering about that earlier! 03:01:50 do you want the answer? 03:02:54 The funny part is that the behavior of fwrite() changes depending on whether you printfed some text previously. 03:03:05 Because if you do then it copies the page into a buffer, I guess. 03:03:08 Hmm, let me see. 03:03:56 heh, nice! 03:04:05 i didn't think about that 03:04:11 That was a strange bug to track down. 03:04:24 keep that one in mind for the devious code contest 03:04:58 shachaf: here is my vdso dumper: https://gist.github.com/2799304 03:05:16 (unlike vsyscall you don't need an intermediate buffer) 03:05:38 I parsed /proc/self/maps in C. :-( 03:05:59 High-level languages should have easy unsafe-memory-access primitives! 03:07:28 that's why i love ctypes! 03:07:37 look at my python vdso dumper 03:07:47 unsafe memory access is pretty easy in Haskell, too 03:08:17 Right, I saw. 03:11:45 Hmm, so it's not just because it's a high address. 03:15:04 it's not? 03:15:20 No, I just forgot to pass MAP_FIXED to mmap. 03:16:51 yeah, the reason (aiui) is that the kernel checks the pointer argument to 'write' to make sure it's below the user/kernel cutoff 03:17:07 and the generic code which does that doesn't know that userspace is allowed to read this one high-mapped page 03:17:14 but the page tables do know that, so memcpy works fine 03:17:51 that's gross 03:17:59 I just used while (ptr < end) putchar(*ptr); 03:18:46 ptr++ 03:18:47 Whatever. 03:19:15 elliott: yeah 03:19:30 someone should fix said generic code 03:19:39 more generally, it's gross that the kernel has to duplicate the page table's knowledge about what userspace is allowed to read 03:19:49 elliott: But the performance penalty! 03:19:52 though linux only does this at a coarse level 03:19:55 I mean, it's not as if it actually matters. 03:20:00 shachaf: i don't care if it slows the system down by half 03:20:03 it's gross 03:20:11 if you pass a faulting userspace address to write(), that does indeed trigger a pagefault in ring 0 code 03:20:18 kmc: does it really "have" to do that 03:20:56 but the pagefault handler knows that faults on certain kernel instructions should translate to "set this flag" rather than "kill the process and BUG the fuck out" 03:21:55 fixing access_ok to know about vsyscall is dumb because nobody actually cares and because making that code more complicated will harm security 03:22:04 kmc: i care 03:22:08 the performance wankers would all switch over to ____do_real_access_ok() 03:22:18 and then there would be a bug in that 03:22:20 i think it's literally a trivial change to the point of not harming security 03:22:28 because it's one single page on one platform 03:22:45 elliott: But no one cares. 03:22:46 you should fork linux on github 03:22:48 and make this one change 03:22:57 And submit a pull request via GitHub! 03:23:04 and post stupid meme images in it 03:23:08 and post it to proggit and hn 03:23:13 and wait for people to flame linux for being so behind-the-times 03:23:15 er 03:23:16 *linus 03:23:17 same thing 03:23:30 anyway i might send a patch to lkml 03:23:32 who knows 03:23:47 "dec eax; mov eax, 0x60; syscall; ret" 03:23:52 What's that dec eax for? 03:24:01 it decreases eax by one 03:24:02 hope this help 03:24:02 s 03:24:05 elliott: You already know the response to the patch will be "no one cares". 03:24:08 maybe for 64-bit stuff 03:24:18 shachaf: maybe linus will see it and merge it 03:24:22 how do you know! 03:24:24 Why do they need to decrement eax register there? 03:24:30 Maybe elliott is right. 03:24:36 doesn't decrement do stuff to the higher part of rax there 03:24:39 maybe 03:24:40 Does it have anything to do with the flags for zero condition and so on? 03:24:40 It might be that that zeros the upper half of the register or something? 03:24:58 I remember that rax/eax /= eax/ax in that respect. 03:25:01 this is why i don't like assembly language 03:25:32 stuff just like that 03:26:30 I think in 64 bit writing to eax zeroes the higher bits 03:26:44 yep 03:26:47 So why the dec? 03:26:59 to zero the higher bits 03:27:19 but mov also zeroes them 03:27:22 doesn't mov eax, 0x60 do that 03:27:29 that's what he said 03:27:31 I want an x86 assembly REPL. :-( 03:27:39 what's repl 03:27:40 shachaf: where did you find that code 03:27:44 (to give it an abbot and costello sense of confusion) 03:27:47 kmc: In [vsyscall]. 03:27:56 hmm mine doesn't have 03:28:07 shachaf: Is the DOS DEBUG good enough? Maybe not as it is not a proper REPL 03:28:09 Oh, wait. 03:28:11 Never mind. 03:28:19 kmc: You can probably guess what went wrong. :-) 03:28:24 madbrr: Repeat enter p-list. It's an x86 instruction. 03:28:25 -!- cmapernet has joined. 03:28:34 -!- cmapernet has left. 03:28:35 shachaf: What went wrong? 03:28:36 shachaf: wrong disassembly mode? 03:28:38 By cmapernet 03:28:40 *e . 03:28:41 yep 03:28:44 Yes, dec eax = 48 03:28:56 Which is the 64-bit register prefix. 03:29:04 nice 03:29:06 Or something along those lines. 03:29:16 I still want an x86 REPL. 03:29:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 03:30:04 kmc: How's your libcless server going? 03:30:25 done 03:30:42 What did it do? 03:31:17 stuff 03:31:19 one day i will share it 03:31:32 but it's even more pointlessly "look at how hardcore i am" than most of the stuff i share 03:31:44 i was hoping for it to be a sort of easter egg in another thing 03:31:46 but that didn't work out 03:31:52 Oh, now I know why I had to use mmap2() instead of mmap(). 03:32:19 "exciting linux history lesson" 03:32:58 what were you using mmap for? 03:33:11 kmc: by the way there is a text form of CC0 03:33:19 oh 03:33:21 http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode.txt 03:33:22 kmc: Allocating memory. 03:33:40 (In a debugged process, from the debugger.) 03:33:45 (So I used the syscall number.) 03:33:46 aha 03:33:49 Probably in case public domain doesn't work in some country 03:33:50 right 03:33:56 kmc: also you forgot to waive warranty, see http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0_FAQ#May_I_apply_CC0_to_computer_software.3F_If_so.2C_is_there_a_recommended_implementation.3F 03:33:56 zzo38: yeah, that is why CC0 exists 03:33:58 (this is re autoharden) 03:34:04 right 03:34:07 i thought that was already in there 03:34:28 i'm pretty sure i checked 03:34:54 Does CC0 waive contract rights related to copyright? 03:35:00 "Affirmer offers the Work as-is and makes no epresentations or warranties of any kind concerning the Work, express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including without limitation warranties of title, merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, blah blah blah blah blah" 03:35:03 * shachaf looks up autoharden. 03:35:12 Ah, a new MIUAF post. 03:35:20 kmc: i think the point is to make the warranty disclaimer visible 03:35:25 rather than at the bottom of a huge license 03:35:27 03:35:28 where it might not hold up 03:35:31 yeah 03:35:32 sigh 03:35:39 THIS IS WHY YOU WRITE IT ALL IN CAPITALS 03:35:42 i hate the whole "every source file must start with 3 paragraphs of boilerplate" thing 03:35:45 so i don't do it 03:35:50 kmc++ # not doing it 03:35:50 meh, don't bother adding it to a source file 03:35:52 i guess one day oracle will sue me for all my meager savings 03:35:57 just put the boilerplate text in LICENSE 03:36:04 and download CC0 to CC0.txt or something 03:36:08 ok 03:36:12 that's not a bad idea 03:36:19 i don't add things to source files either 03:36:20 i hate that 03:36:26 if a court ever rules it's required i'll give up programming 03:36:36 elliott: Didn't you already give up programming? 03:36:37 or switch to writing proprietary software 03:36:40 shachaf: true 03:36:52 For example, you might be in a contract to make something you own the copyright to belonging to them instead. But that would be impossible with public domain. 03:36:54 kmc: You should add a thing to autoconf where it asks you to accept a license. 03:37:00 if a court ever rules it's required i will personally teabag everyone in the courtroom 03:37:07 "checking if user agrees to the license... yes" 03:37:11 And it makes you scroll all the way down to the bottom before giving you "yes/no" options. 03:37:19 elliott: or you can start coding underground 03:37:24 Even if the license is GPLv2 every time. 03:37:31 i like itidus21's idea 03:37:42 if you release software anonymously then nobody can come after you for warranty 03:37:49 also you can cultivate a mysterious cult of personality 03:38:02 oh uh.. yeah that was exactly my idea 03:38:15 looks around shiftily 03:38:43 types text into irc 03:39:25 provides self-referential description of activity 03:40:06 "provides self-referential description of activity when typed in irc" 03:40:13 * itidus21 breaks the 5th wall. 03:40:19 That one doesn't even work. 03:40:31 minding the gap since 1996 03:40:35 Why isn't this server crashing. :-( 03:40:35 Does CC0 deal with this problem of contracts at all? 03:40:55 kmc: I got the mysterious crash a second time, but the HTTP request was completely boring. 03:41:09 shachaf: first you must realize, there is no server 03:41:11 Now I enabled core dumps (I think) and am stracing everything rather than just network. 03:42:22 kmc: mosh is too many files. Can you make it one file instead? 03:42:33 yep 03:42:40 elliott: I recommend sqlite.c 03:42:40 here you go: http://git.io/o_7nKw 03:42:48 That's not a text file. 03:42:56 it is in codepage 437! 03:42:59 elliott: Just pass it to base64. 03:43:03 -!- TheJimmyJames has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:43:08 cries 03:43:12 it's not a C file 03:43:19 a UTF-8 C file 03:43:31 -!- TheJimmyJames has joined. 03:43:47 Would a contract be able to force you to retract a liscense that gives no conditions under which it may be retracted? I would think that wouldn't make sense. 03:43:48 C Big Endian 03:43:50 `welcome TheJimmyJames 03:43:53 TheJimmyJames: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:44:01 kmc: https://github.com/keithw/mosh/issues/120 +1 +1 +1 03:44:32 @pl \x -> x +1 +1 +1 03:44:32 (3 +) 03:44:37 thambdabot 03:45:04 kmc: another mosh question for you!!! 03:45:10 does the mosh client build on Windows? 03:45:27 @google mosh windows 03:45:28 http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/01/05/are-mosh-and-jupiter-windows-8s-killer-features/ 03:45:28 Title: Are ‘Mosh’ and ‘Jupiter’ Windows 8′s killer features? - The Next Web 03:45:32 mosh: Windows 8's killer feature 03:46:11 "The current Mosh 1.2 release candidate officially supports building from source on Cygwin. Please try it and report back with any problems." - kmcallister "kmc" mckmc 03:46:38 lol lambdabot.. you have really outdone yourself 03:47:03 «According to Paul, Mosh is a “new tile-based user interface.”» 03:48:23 @google according to paul 03:48:26 http://www.ibiblio.org/freebiblecommentary/pdf/EN/VOL05.pdf 03:48:48 thfornothingambdabot 03:48:56 shachaf: Cygwin doesn't count. 03:49:09 Does MinGW count? 03:49:16 "immersive apps" wat 03:49:18 Yes. 03:49:50 i love immersive apps 03:49:55 i'm immersed in an app 03:49:59 constantly 03:50:27 also that's like 1½ years old 03:51:08 ahh i was getting mosh confused with mush 03:51:13 Thanks kmc. 03:51:23 CGI is such a mess. 03:51:28 presumably, the so called mosh and jupiter stuff are metro 03:51:30 "ih8u cgi :'(" 03:51:36 and winrt 03:51:45 Also programs that are written in C are such a mess. 03:52:09 why 03:52:10 Does CWEB make it better? 03:52:10 Badly, that is. 03:52:36 "Elegance is not a dispensable luxury but a quality that decides between success and failure" -- Edsger W. Dijkstra 03:52:39 And what is wrong with CGI? 03:52:44 you know, as much as this is the kind of thing i *want* to be true 03:52:46 Thkmc. 03:52:52 i don't really believe it is 03:53:05 unless you read "decides" to mean "has some small influence" 03:53:09 shachaf: but if you want to write cpu efficient code then C++ is practically the only way 03:53:14 lol 03:53:22 or define "success" to be "producing an elegant system" 03:53:32 hrm 03:53:33 madbrr: um,,,,,asm!!!! 03:53:34 If you want to write CPU efficient code, there is assembly language. But that is only for the specific CPU. 03:53:40 monqy: not helping!!!! 03:53:42 madbrr: "gotta get close to that hard ware" 03:53:50 For working with many computers, you use C or LLVM. 03:53:54 the hardware is within 2 feet 03:53:57 kmc: Overoptimizing for elegance often has an influence in the opposite direction. :-) 03:53:59 responding to messages that take a message referring to C and then refer to C++ in response considered "dumb" 03:54:01 the hardware is within 1 inch 03:54:05 the hardware is within 1 um 03:54:11 things I dislike about Haskell: rewriting code into the IO monad is annoying 03:54:16 the u is a mu i just cant type mus 03:54:20 coppro: don't do that 03:54:26 (usually) 03:54:32 coppro: How do you mean? 03:54:56 madbrr: most programs don't need maximum CPU efficiency 03:55:07 and even the ones that do, they need it only in a small fraction of the code 03:55:15 are you really going to start a serious argument in reply to that statement 03:55:21 yeah 03:55:22 really #esoteric 03:55:23 really 03:55:23 sorry 03:55:34 was my argument not serious :'( 03:55:35 i accept yr apology 03:55:40 I am, for my own personal amusement, writing an IRC bot framework. The obvious way is have a String -> String function that runs the bot, and internal modules in the State monad. 03:55:49 You can't be efficient without templates! 03:55:54 coppro: that's the wrong way, fwiw 03:55:57 kmc: TeX: The Program does describe some things needing much efficiently in the "inner loop" 03:55:58 madbrr: um,,,,,,asm doesn't have tempalte!!!!! 03:55:59 qed 03:56:00 coppro: is it cpu efficient 03:56:03 s/adbrr/onqy/ 03:56:04 for a start you're depending on lazy io off the bat which is probably not a good idea 03:56:08 but 03:56:08 w/e 03:56:14 But then, of course, the modules cannot do IO themselves 03:56:20 yes 03:56:25 you designed wrong 03:56:28 shachaf: templates are far from the hardware and slow!!! ! 03:56:46 afaik asm is barely faster on out of order architectures 03:56:47 monqy: Then why does C++ have them? 03:56:48 CHECKMATE 03:56:52 You could use (StateT s IO) monad if you will do IO too 03:56:53 unless you're doing SIMD 03:56:58 "(This is analogous to screen, in which C-a a sends a literal C-a. The reason this is a good idea is so sending the escape character through a stack of n moshes or screens doesn’t take 2^n keystrokes.)" 03:57:02 kmc: now you have n problems 03:57:03 stuffing them inside StateT foo IO is the correct way to make them able to do IO 03:57:13 coppro: for certain values of correct, sure 03:57:18 StateT foo IO is often a bad idea 03:57:20 elliott: what do you suggest? 03:57:23 depends 03:57:28 shachaf: im checkmate :[ 03:57:31 I wouldn't model a bot as String -> String in the first place 03:57:35 :[ 03:57:41 elliott: No, but an IRC conversation is. 03:57:42 ~c++ enlighten me~ 03:57:43 or String -> IO String (<-- this wouldn't work at all actually) 03:57:47 coppro: i disagree 03:57:58 elliott: larrytheliquid wrote an IRC bot in Agda!!!!!! 03:58:08 s/wrote/modeled/ 03:58:10 It's true, string -> string ignroes timing, for one thing. 03:58:12 s/modeled/sort of modeled/ 03:58:15 *ignores 03:58:19 MDude: You take advantage of laziness. 03:58:23 see also interact 03:58:35 no 03:58:38 that's not laziness 03:58:39 that's lazy IO 03:58:43 which is completely separate from laziness 03:58:44 and a Bad Idea 03:58:54 (for anything other than toy programs, at least) 03:59:04 why is it a Bad Idea? 03:59:09 various reasons 03:59:12 I'm unfortunately too going to bed to talk about bots now. 03:59:17 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 03:59:23 it has some semantic iffiness 03:59:28 and more practically 03:59:34 yay it's just like i'm back in #haskell 03:59:34 it destroys more or less any hope of reasonable resource management 03:59:45 kmc: it's my present for your apology 04:00:57 ah 04:01:03 that seems reasonable 04:01:24 (because you never know when the resources get cleaned up) 04:01:30 (because it's tied to when a certain piece of pure data is evaluated) 04:01:34 (which is fun fun fun) 04:01:45 monqy: shachaf: i think that the most efficient way to code is to magically never have to refer back to previously written code. in addition it should all be written in shorthand. 04:01:57 anyway the reason StateT foo IO is often a bad idea is because it works just as well to use MVars/TVars inside IO 04:02:06 and is required if you, e.g. ever want any kind of concurrency 04:02:09 itidus21: use 1 letter variable names so the computer can read them faster 04:02:15 elliott: Except you have to pass the MVars around!!!!!! 04:02:22 shachaf: ReaderT (MVar foo) IO!!!!! 04:02:26 spoiler is: sometimes passing them around is easier 04:02:40 ReaderT (hi monqy) IO 04:02:48 The monqy.Reader 04:02:53 coppro: anyway i would probably model an irc bot as Conduit IRCMessage IO IRCMessage or something but ha ha it is probably not best to learn conduits right now 04:02:58 (or enumerators or pipes or w / e) 04:03:03 > (compare `on` take 3) "monqy" "monad" 04:03:04 EQ 04:03:07 Coïncidence? 04:03:22 i can only assume that new iteratee libraries have been invented at a rate of roughly one per day since i stopped paying attention 04:03:33 i think the tubulon iteratoolios are the best 04:03:47 you were around for conduits and pipes kmc 04:04:16 kmc: anyway\ 04:04:16 loud pipes save lives 04:04:25 \ 04:04:25 is there any hope of the mosh client compiling for windows without cygwin 04:04:27 monqy: i'm serious of course. a preference for elegance isn't a personality flaw, but just a mathematical problem waiting to be analyzed. 04:04:27 ever 04:04:28 s/\\$// 04:04:37 elliott: if someone who knows and cares about windows makes it happen, sure 04:04:47 kmc: great! i am neither of these things 04:04:51 none of the current core mosh developers know windows or care about windows or like windows 04:04:54 rephrase: how many posix calls does mosh use 04:05:02 we're happy to take patches though 04:05:05 elliott: a fair number 04:05:09 Windows is POSIX! 04:05:39 the subtext is: i wish there was like a putty fork with mosh support so it was more useful to me 04:05:58 coding should be done in such a way that simply don't have to look back on code which has been written, ever. 04:06:01 this isn't really subtext 04:06:06 more like "the real thing is:" 04:06:18 itidus21: ……… 04:06:37 elliott: how much do you actually code in Haskell? 04:06:48 elliott uses Windows? 04:06:51 yes 04:07:23 itidus21, so, working on Human 2.0 to try to make that possible? 04:07:41 write once, read never! 04:08:08 Sgeo: no 04:08:18 itidus21, suppose that there's a bug... 04:08:27 coppro: 99% of the new programs i write are haskell 04:08:32 coppro: i don't program much right now 04:08:34 sometimes i program lots 04:08:34 humm 04:08:38 sometimes i don't program much at all 04:08:44 but when i do it's usually patching someone else's code or haskell 04:08:49 ah ok 04:08:50 and i toy about in haskell a bit 04:08:56 Sgeo: well.. 04:08:58 I keep wondering how you retain all this stuff 04:08:58 i have also answered a lot of haskell questions on stack overflow :p 04:09:15 coppro: it's been like... 3, 4 years since i started programming haskell 04:09:29 and also i used to hang out in #haskell a lot (but i don't recommend doing this any more) 04:10:04 #haskell is interesting now if you can answer all the newbie questions that come up quickly, identify and ignore terrible stuff, and like talking to people who know haskell a lot, but not so much if you're not already experienced 04:10:25 O, that is what they do? 04:10:41 my problem is that (like everyone else) i want to explain things *my* way 04:10:49 and i got sick of fighting about which explanation is best 04:10:49 elliott: actually, Conduit doesn't look so bad 04:10:57 The question of how to make (IO x) into (x) is very common by people who do not understand Haskell 04:11:05 coppro: yes. (conduit is wrong in several respects) 04:11:08 (but other libraries are wrong too) 04:11:28 (the main reason not to learn conduit now is because there are like 4 libraries for doing roughly the same thing right now) 04:11:48 ah 04:16:20 does anyone know of a server that just does ssh authentication but isn't tied to unix users 04:16:29 and instead of starting a shell just starts a command with the info it got or such 04:16:37 so it has a separate user/password/pubkey database 04:17:43 "The question of whether Machines Can Think... is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can Swim." ~ Edsger W. Dijkstra 04:18:39 Yes, it does seem a similar kind of question 04:19:24 ooh this one more edgy 04:19:52 "Don't blame me for the fact that competent programming, as I view it as an intellectual possibility, will be too difficult for "the average programmer" you must not fall into the trap of rejecting a surgical technique because it is beyond the capabilities of the barber in his shop around the corner." ~ Edsger W. Dijkstra 04:19:57 elliott: unless you suggest me a good library to use ima go do something stupid 04:20:14 have fun 04:20:27 the great thing about stupid things in haskell is that they break :P 04:20:38 imo you should model the bot as String -> String and use unsafePerformIO internally!!! 04:20:51 how many exclamation marks do i need to convey sarcasm!!!!!!! 04:21:22 42 04:21:51 elliott: yes, but the question about the breakage is where they break 04:21:52 too many 04:22:03 9 04:22:23 I have now added support for timers and time limits to Internet Quiz Engine. 04:22:30 specifically, do they break before or after I am done with them 04:24:39 before usually 04:28:07 well yes 04:28:15 but I mean specifically when will I encounter that :) 04:28:26 so why do you recommend against conduit, then? 04:29:31 Do you like "abstract nonsense"? 04:29:59 i use conduit 04:30:05 but I wouldn't learn it at the stage I imagine you're at 04:30:28 -!- david_werecat has joined. 04:30:33 Do you like Internet Quiz Engine? 04:31:27 humm 04:31:45 elliott: I'm slightly more advanced than you seem to think. 04:31:53 elliott: it really does not look all that hard. 04:31:58 it isn't that hard 04:32:08 I would still not recommend learning it 04:32:17 especialyl since you'll need to use supporting libraries to pull off an irc bot effectively with it 04:32:21 *especially 04:32:42 zzo38: can your question be modelled in lambda calculus? 04:32:43 -!- TheJimmyJames has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:33:00 itidus21: Probably not. 04:33:23 i either say yes or no or nothing 04:34:06 Who is TheJimmyJames? 04:35:06 "Do you like Internet Quiz Engine? Yes" becomes "You like Internet Quiz engine."; "Do you like Internet Quiz Engine? No" becomes "You don't like Internet Quiz engine."; "Do you like Internet Quiz Engine?" remains "Do you like Internet Quiz Engine?" 04:35:13 obviously im insane 04:36:14 hi 04:36:15 Obviously most people in this channel (myself included) are somewhat insane 04:36:22 hi 04:37:14 elliott: what sort of supporting libraries? Now that I look, the obvious thing seems to connect TCP =$= parser =$= bot logic =$= formatter =$= TCP 04:37:28 writing the parser will be a pain without e.g. attoparsec-conduit 04:37:31 formatter will be easier but 04:37:48 i already have irc stuff for conduit written but i've been perennially terrible in getting it to hackage 04:37:56 elliott: What do you think of O_DIRECT? 04:38:13 shachaf: what about it 04:38:18 elliott: therefore it doesn't exist qed 04:38:28 elliott: is it the devil. 04:38:39 idk 04:40:55 Selector strings are quiz.menu*a (type 1) for the Internet Quiz Engine main menu, and textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt (type 0) for the comparison chart 04:42:50 Have you looked at the quiz editor on OkCupid and/or played any quizzes on OkCupid? Internet Quiz Engine actually has many similarities 04:50:26 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliott_. 04:50:28 Internet Quiz Engine is free and open source software, it is written in C, it has no advertising or other annoyances, supports time limits, has versatile questions/responses/results, no registration is required, supports skipping conditional questions, can upload/download the quiz files, and uses low bandwidth. 04:50:59 thanks 04:51:38 Some of these features do not exist in any of the other programs I have reviewed. 04:52:46 you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines 04:53:20 @remember itidus21 you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines 04:53:20 Good to know. 04:54:33 What does that mean? 04:55:06 the meaning is largely subjective 04:55:29 Well, Linux is also free and open source software written in C, but is that what you meant? 04:55:45 kmc: You should've used `addquote. :-( 04:56:00 shachaf: Then you use `addquote if that is what you want 04:56:02 what evs 04:56:12 i don't know 04:56:15 i just like "linux torvalds" 04:56:17 > w/e 04:56:18 w / e 04:56:23 > o . o 04:56:24 Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' 04:56:24 against inferred type `Simple... 04:56:35 > f . f 04:56:36 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f b)) 04:56:36 arising from a use of `M6020407245... 04:57:17 lmao.. i just got that 04:59:07 `addquote you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines 04:59:10 845) you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines 05:02:56 Hello, this is Linux Torvalds, and I pronounce Linus as Linus. 05:05:26 elliptic: Try AuNO instead of FeDK! 05:05:57 s/elliptic/elliott/ 05:06:04 gold > iron; norway > denmark; qed 05:06:47 elliott_: alternatively, just hackage your goddamn IRC stuff ;) 05:06:52 elliott_: also wake ais up 05:06:59 I need to complain to him 05:07:05 shachaf: what's auno 05:07:08 The source codes for Internet Quiz Engine is 9KB; I don't know how long the codes of the other programs are since I have not seen them, but I guess most of them are probably longer and less efficient, because they want to add advertising and all sorts of HTML stuff, and some people write bad codes in general, and other reasons 05:07:08 @ask ais523 wake up 05:07:09 Consider it noted. 05:07:17 elliott_: gold; norway 05:07:26 I have Periodic Table of Elements on the wall in my bedroom 05:07:38 shachaf: ok 05:07:39 zzo38: Is Internet Quiz Engine written in C? 05:07:57 shachaf: Yes. You can even look at the source-codes if you want to. 05:08:01 Where? 05:08:32 From quiz.menu*d 05:08:51 $ wget quiz.menu*d 05:08:51 ERROR:Word not found 05:08:55 --2012-05-26 22:08:48-- http://quiz.menu*d/ 05:08:55 Resolving quiz.menu*d (quiz.menu*d)... failed: Name or service not known. 05:08:55 wget: unable to resolve host address `quiz.menu*d' 05:09:03 Wrong! 05:09:28 Try using this command instead: echo 'quiz.menu*d' | nc zzo38computer.cjb.net 70 > inquiz.w 05:09:41 You might need nc -q -1 depending on the version of netcat 05:11:16 Uh-oh. 05:11:24 Undefined behavior when you call inquiz with argc==0 ! 05:11:50 shachaf: True, but it is never called that way. 05:12:02 Untrue! 05:12:06 I just called it that way. 05:12:11 Actually, no! 05:12:18 You get an error! 05:12:20 I made a mistake. 05:12:28 But the error calls printf with %s, NULL. 05:12:37 O, yes. 05:13:05 It does. Well, still, it will never be called that way when properly installed. 05:16:25 The program is not meant to be run from the command-line; it won't work that way. It should run from a gopher server with the argument specifying the name of the configuration file, and the environment variable SELECTOR containing the selector string. 05:16:41 SELECTOR=hi 05:18:29 zzo38: just as a good bitmap renderer is best shown off with a landscape photo or a renaissance painting, the proof is in the pudding so to speak 05:18:34 You can, of course, set the SELECTOR using the command-line (you need export as well), but it doesn't really work well that way. Still, if you want to, you can make up a shell script or something else that sets SELECTOR and then formats the choices on the screen for local mode 05:18:51 a quiz engine lives off a diet of good quizzes 05:19:39 itidus21: True; currently there are only two files other than the example file, and that is why I ask you to add some if you have anything to add 05:20:55 a motivated individual i am not 05:21:35 but its easier on my brains than most other topics 05:21:37 Ah. Well, when I have some to add, I can add it myself; but usually I have none, so other people can add some instead if they can write some to add. 05:23:11 so the atom of the quiz is a multiple choice question, right? 05:23:23 itidus21: Yes. 05:27:05 The fictional city of Midgar and Pacman were both inspired by this: a)chocolate b)pasta c)pizza d)mushrooms 05:27:36 I dislike mushrooms. chocolate,pasta,pizza can be good. 05:27:57 monqy: "gasp" 05:28:05 i know it's easy.. and maybe even a little dumb.. but that is the greatest quiz question the world has ever seen 05:28:08 shachaf: gasp 05:28:44 itidus21: what's the answer ? 05:29:08 i'll provide pictures! 05:29:14 e)all of the above 05:29:16 itidus21: Well, it is a valid question which can be included in a quiz file if you want to, but a single question is not so good. Ask if you don't understand how. 05:29:43 Is it a pizza with a slice cut out? 05:30:00 heres midgar: http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/midgar.jpg 05:30:16 monqy: what about::::::: 05:30:20 mushroom pizza? 05:30:23 I don't know Midgar 05:30:31 shachaf: ew, mushrooms!!! 05:30:35 shachaf: O, yes, pizza can have mushrooms on it too 05:30:35 why so dark 05:30:36 if you look at the picture then you know it 05:30:51 it looks like a pasta 05:30:54 am I right ? 05:31:00 tes 05:31:01 yes 05:31:07 yaey 05:31:08 zzo38: mushroom pasta?? 05:31:09 monqy: What kind of pasta? 05:31:16 yes 05:31:25 monqy: do you like clouds? 05:31:29 yes 05:31:33 HOW ABOUT: MUSHROOM CLOUDS?? 05:31:37 :'( 05:31:49 you've checkmated me!! 05:31:51 shachaf: Maybe, but what I mean by "What kind of pasta?", like, spaghetti, tortellini, bowtie pasta, short pasta, etc 05:32:06 monqy: Do you like 5-HT agonists? 05:32:06 shachaf: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs29/f/2008/106/a/4/Mario_Mushroom_Cloud_by_shadowmcr.jpg 05:32:20 shachaf: what's that 05:32:21 kmc does, right? 05:32:24 monqy: Ask kmc. 05:32:26 truly the internet has everything 05:32:39 you can't outthink it 05:32:41 kmc: what's a 5-ht antagonists 05:33:07 he said agonist not antagonist 05:33:17 monqy: Actually I mean 5-HT_2A agonists. 05:33:19 kmc: what's a 5-ht agonists 05:33:28 kmc: what's a 5-ht-2a agonists 05:34:13 i know it's not a typo cos i remember there was this guy in a chatroom named agonistic 05:35:51 what's agonism 05:37:05 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:37:30 madbrr: Ask kmc. 05:39:17 reading the bible testament 05:39:19 this is a gem 05:39:42 if you sell it, will you get money ? 05:39:49 I hear gems do that 05:39:50 i read the bible testament once 05:40:03 monqy: You can sell 5-HT_2A agonists for money. 05:40:06 But it's usually illegal. :-( 05:40:12 D: 05:40:20 I still don't know what those are !! 05:40:26 Ask kmc. 05:40:32 i do, after i asked kmc 05:40:55 except i didn't ask kmc 05:42:44 @tell ion 178460 games for hugeterm: 103206x Sebi, 8951x KiloByte, 8081x heteroy, 4165x Johan, 3489x ion 05:42:45 Consider it noted. 05:42:55 @tell ion you are one of the most prolific hugetermers ever. cease your evil. 05:42:55 Consider it noted. 05:43:09 hugeterm 05:43:23 is that like a hugepage :'( 05:48:36 "Tux Paint was designed in such a way that the user does not need to understand the underlying operating system or how to deal with files. 05:49:29 -!- aloril has joined. 05:53:16 bwahah 06:05:50 elliott_, have you seen Codelink? It's apparently a free (not sure if as in beer or speech) hollywood hacking game 06:06:07 no 06:07:13 I.. think it's online multiplayer too 06:09:06 "Goonies never say die!" (on the about page) 06:09:16 Well, that really speaks to the professionalism of the author 06:09:25 hi 06:10:09 Joy, ads 06:11:16 hey 06:11:28 "Attempting to access game content from any means other than the Codelink Game itself will result in a server ban for life." 06:11:48 "Only one account can be active per IP address." 06:12:08 hi 06:12:40 Don't make an account if someone's looking over your shoulders, the password fields don't obscure the password 06:12:50 hi 06:12:59 sounds like a good game 06:13:40 I don't even want to do my typical "crap password" routine, those are still too valuable for me to trust to this place 06:13:56 crapper password 06:14:04 What is your opinion about minimum wage? 06:14:36 Sgeo: do squarelos/robin 06:14:45 monqy will be proud 06:14:49 yes 06:15:22 -!- madbrr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:15:53 I am against minimum wage. 06:15:57 ok 06:23:35 ...why is an email client in the hardware section? 06:23:52 yes 06:24:14 * Sgeo connects to 0.128.0.1 06:25:31 I'll play with it later 06:25:49 I think the only tutorial is a video tutorial 06:41:11 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:57:39 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:02:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:02:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:02:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:02:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:27:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:37:47 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 07:40:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:41:22 PatashuXantheres: You should name my branch! 07:57:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:57:14 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:29:40 What is your branch a branch of 08:30:09 elliott_: Crawlliott 08:30:31 that was completely useless, I appreciate it 08:30:42 what do you want from me 08:31:23 eliots-crawl 08:37:42 Elliott's Crawl II: a branch of no name 08:42:17 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:42:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:43:26 ignoring my previous one 08:44:01 Being Not So Much A Derivative As An Improvement Upon Crawl. 08:45:45 fungot? 08:45:46 itidus21: not giving up it's time slot do? interpret esolangs? 08:50:06 crawl_r6527 08:50:45 Super Crawl 08:52:26 hi 08:54:50 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:55:04 A strange occurance by which one attempts to eat a tomato raw rather than use it in fish burgers 08:55:43 oops 08:56:42 awfully bitter the tomato 08:57:25 its amazing how good the sauces made from them taste 08:57:58 i read that as "the tornado" 08:58:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:58:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 08:58:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:58:34 no Phantom_Hoover evaporate into sun 08:58:57 no 09:00:08 no 09:00:10 Phantom_Hoover 09:00:13 evaporate into sun 09:00:28 a bit of salt, butter and toast and they're the greatest food ever invented 09:00:36 what, bread? 09:00:52 tomatos(tomatoes) 09:01:02 did you know: I know the man who invented tomatoes? 09:01:07 lesser-known monqy fact 09:01:11 he's old now, of course 09:01:27 but on their own they're rubbish 09:01:41 monqy: was it you 09:01:47 yes 09:01:47 im old 09:01:51 aw 09:01:56 yay 09:01:57 you don't have to be! 09:02:06 it means you can wear oldman clothes 09:02:15 i love oldman clothes 09:02:24 when i was young i could not wear oldman clothes 09:02:25 but now i can 09:02:29 this is all the reason i need 09:02:30 to be old 09:02:40 mmmm 09:02:57 i think i need to find visual context to oldman clothes 09:03:06 off to google 09:03:38 aha 1)cardigans worn with shirts 09:04:03 very stylish ! 09:04:14 oldmans have all the luck 09:04:19 good thing i am an oldman 09:04:51 sportscoats 09:05:15 oldmans luck strikes again 09:05:58 linus style polo shirts 09:06:13 *linux 09:07:01 i don't know if that counts as a subverted trope :-D 09:07:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:07:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:07:35 -!- aloril has joined. 09:07:39 oldmans are very subversive I'll have you know 09:08:05 and this... http://www.plefka.net/images/GrandpaChair.gif you get to wear all these things on comfy chairs 09:08:25 get that creepo kid out of my face!! 09:08:28 stop looking at me!! 09:08:36 `quote monqy.*stare 09:08:38 monqy: it's you monqy 09:08:43 it's you 09:08:43 in the past 09:08:44 349) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup 09:08:45 empty eye sockets 09:08:48 no 09:08:49 wrong quote 09:08:51 `quote many eyes 09:08:55 590) Dear god stop staring at me. no never monqy is always staring at everyone. it takes many eyes to do this but I manage He is an inspiration to us all. 09:09:20 ohh 09:09:27 apparently the kids eyes are transparent 09:09:35 is he a ghost 09:09:37 am i a ghost 09:09:38 in the past 09:09:41 yes 09:09:51 oops 09:09:56 designed for display on a white background 09:09:56 yes 09:10:01 no itidus21 09:10:02 you "ruined it" 09:10:13 it's "ruined" 09:10:43 excellent deduction itidus21 ! 09:10:51 not quite.. the very idea that they would leave the eyes transparent itself is quite creepy 09:11:03 im creeped 09:11:25 they could play some kind of fire animation behind them 09:11:39 creepy 09:12:52 then you should avoid this https://ssl.catalog.com/~pennviewvisuals.biz/store/images/Grandpa%20&%20Bradley.jpg 09:13:01 im creeped 09:13:43 ok ill try and get back to the topic 09:14:01 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:14:26 no don't 09:15:06 so theres those woolen tops with the boring patterns you get to wear.. the flat-coloured tracksuits, the flanelette shirts 09:15:35 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:15:50 the berets, the slippers 09:16:50 thick glasses, and a pipe 09:17:26 do i get to wear a toupee, or am I too old for that 09:17:29 -!- nortti has joined. 09:17:32 does my pipe blow bubbles 09:18:23 yes 09:18:52 yaey 09:36:24 -!- derdon has joined. 09:44:44 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:46:30 -!- rszeno has joined. 09:47:06 hi everybody 09:47:16 hi 09:48:16 hi elliott_ 09:48:20 hi 09:49:42 i'm curios, what do you think about this "Haskell Curry proposed combinatory logic as a logica universalis, but it ran into inconsistency problems.  (I'm trying to use fuzzy-probabilistic truth values to get around that problem, but that's a different topic.)" 09:50:04 i'm not sure what you mean by it 09:50:28 is not my statement, somebody else 09:50:32 if the point is that "combinatory logic is tc" then yes sure 09:50:40 i don't know what the fuzzy stuff is about, sounds like nonsense 09:51:07 yes, this is my opinion too 09:51:31 i mean sure fuzzy logic is a thing, i have no idea how it relates to the consistency of a computational system interpreted as a logic at all though 09:52:16 imo is no connection, are two different formlisms 09:52:59 are few other things there, http://geniferology.blogspot.com/ 09:53:15 unification - the calculus of concepts 09:54:01 hmm, AGI and an aforementioned statement about formal logic that makes no sense 09:54:05 my quackery meter just exploded 09:54:42 same feeling here 09:55:09 the pictures are pretty, though! 09:55:57 probably are from some books 09:56:06 nah, i mean the software ones 09:56:09 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mWGkAr1Xo5Y/TH3kkjFPUjI/AAAAAAAAAag/O_IrFTLIagA/s1600/dannhyperassociativemap.png like this 09:57:46 they have some software, http://code.google.com/p/genifer/ 09:58:09 -!- nortti_ has joined. 09:58:24 http://code.google.com/p/genifer/source/browse/haskell/Genifer.lhs yep, sure is a unification algorithm 10:02:00 hard for me to read haskell now, :) i didn't use it last two years at all 10:05:36 i can't separate latex from haskell, :) 10:06:29 there's more latex than haskell there :p 10:07:33 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:07:34 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 10:07:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:07:49 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 10:11:42 i'll show him quackery 10:11:54 `quote itidus 10:11:57 446) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 469) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 470) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. 10:12:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:13:07 `quote 446 10:13:10 446) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception 10:13:18 ah right 10:15:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:16:38 so i'm right when i say that genifer blog is a nonsense from begining to end? 10:17:42 rszeno: oh im just trying to show that i am a quack. 10:18:11 i am otherwise clueless 10:18:21 rszeno: most of it looks like nonsense to me 10:18:29 there is some stuff that makes sense but nothing of particular value 10:18:35 don't lose any sleep over understanding it :p 10:20:23 this look like a new religion, is annoying 10:21:24 rszeno: probably he has lots of mental problems. 10:21:50 :) 10:22:33 -!- elliott_ has left. 10:28:29 many of the posts says "posted by YKY" .. and this is the profile of YKY http://www.blogger.com/profile/15037419974603456698 10:29:36 is the leader of the group 10:29:42 under his interests is life extension 10:29:50 wikipedia defines life extension as: Life extension science, also known as anti-aging medicine, experimental gerontology, and biomedical gerontology, is the study of slowing down or reversing the processes of aging to extend both the maximum and average lifespan. 10:30:43 like, whats with his ridiculous pic.. who does he think he is :P 10:30:48 a little napoleon, imo 10:31:40 ok ok NOW look heer :o http://cybernetic1.blogspot.com.au/ 10:32:02 posted by YKY "I was locked up in a mental hospital for ~3 weeks, " 10:32:31 i try two years ago to join the group but i give up when somebody said that YKY 'decide everything' 10:32:39 yes, he has been in a mental hospital!! 10:33:03 i wander why they release him 10:33:24 and his interest is extending lifespan 10:33:35 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:33:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:42:48 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:42:50 well, i am not typical of this channel at all. and my own journals are a bit off the wall kind of like yky i suppose 10:43:14 but, i can admit i'm odd 10:43:52 i mean, i don't understand the topics of this channel. 10:46:01 i think i'm odd too, :) 10:46:15 -!- elliott_ has joined. 10:46:24 kmc: Wow, I search for a urxvt problem and get a mosh issue opened by you. 10:46:29 and i don't think mr yky understands his own topics either. 10:46:50 Are you still talking about that silly blog? 10:47:39 elliott_: i made the fascinating discovery that the guy who runs it has spent time in a mental hospital 10:47:40 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:47:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:47:54 So have I. 10:48:00 oh 10:48:08 thats also fasinctating 10:49:10 yes, but you didn't make a major simplification in the unification algo published in AIMA, :) 10:49:19 But I could!!!! 10:49:25 And THEN where would we be? 10:50:11 the point is that your could make sense, this guy just collect words from some books to impress people 10:50:37 rszeno: i think what he is doing is thinking aloud to himself via a blog.. 10:51:18 Why do you care? 10:51:53 some people from his group are really nice and have potential but ... 10:52:26 one of my friends told me about this 10:53:09 honestly i think he is as nuts as me.. 10:53:10 i don't really care, i ask to be sure that i'm not mad, :) 10:53:39 and if you saw some of my absurd rants you would think thats cause for concern 10:55:18 if you show me one i promise i will tell you my opinion, honestly, :) 10:55:51 A strange occurance by which one attempts to eat a tomato raw rather than use it in fish burgers awfully bitter the tomato its amazing how good the sauces made from them taste 10:56:25 i think that the most efficient way to code is to magically never have to refer back to previously written code. in addition it should all be written in shorthand. 10:58:19 first is difficult to translate for me, i miss some details, but look like a matter of taste, nothing weird, imo 10:58:28 haha... 10:59:27 anyway, it's amazing what the imagination will come up with to replace lack of knowledge of a subject 10:59:30 second, i'm curios how can be done 11:00:33 new code, not refering means not reusing, that means reinventing over and over again? 11:00:53 i was talking bullshit, you see 11:01:09 :), nice 11:01:24 it is quite often that people say things which are wrong 11:01:48 yes, i'm doing this too 11:02:32 basically i don't understand mathematics and YKY certainly doesn't either 11:02:42 -!- elliott_ has left. 11:05:27 i try to know what i know, :) i think most of my life i learn, :) 11:09:41 -!- oonbotti has joined. 11:16:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:25:44 Hello 11:27:10 hello Taneb 11:32:58 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:43:18 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:43:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:48:09 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 11:48:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:52:46 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:53:11 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 11:53:11 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 11:53:11 -!- Zetro has quit (*.net *.split). 11:53:11 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 11:53:19 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:01:22 Installing an old game: 12:01:28 Reccomended disk space: 50 MP 12:01:31 * MB 12:01:33 4294966277 MB available 12:02:11 50 MB is quite much, too. 12:02:44 It's an ambitious 1997 game 12:02:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:02:58 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:06:35 1997.. 12:06:51 That was before I lived in Australia 12:07:22 i love how posting one word with a trailing ellipsis convey drama 12:10:10 is it on this list? http://www.csoon.com/top10097.htm 12:10:32 No...! 12:10:51 "Games released late in the year will have less votes. " whatever that means 12:10:56 ok! 12:12:57 -!- Zetro has joined. 12:16:11 -!- HackEgo has joined. 12:16:11 -!- mtve has joined. 12:21:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:38:23 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:47:31 oh no i bumped into an anarcho-capitalist on reddit 12:47:56 'oh no' 12:48:17 this is awful 12:51:12 anarcho-capitalism is the second worst kind of anarchy 12:51:18 Also, 12:51:20 @ping 12:51:20 pong 12:51:23 Oh good 12:51:28 Taneb, what's the worst 12:51:36 Anarcho-I'm in charge now 12:51:57 cf. Doctor Horrible's Singalong Blog 12:52:13 speaking of anarchism have you heard of country named Free Territory? 12:52:22 I have not 12:52:29 no 12:52:40 is it where people go to escape uk anti-free speech 12:53:40 According to my high speed wikipedia reading, it was disestablished in 1921 12:54:20 by soviet union claiming it was ruled by dictatorship 12:54:51 (Free Territory was only communistic contry that was really communist) 12:57:41 it was anarcho-communistic state that had freedom of speech, press, assembly and unions and real democracy 13:03:52 `ls /dev/dsp 13:03:55 ​/dev/dsp 13:04:15 `cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp 13:04:17 cat: /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp: No such file or directory 13:04:21 `run cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp 13:04:25 bash: /dev/dsp: Permission denied 13:05:02 Gregor: why are you running bash? 13:05:24 Because bash is better than you. 13:06:08 it is slow and bloated. why don't just use ash? 13:07:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:07:41 h 13:13:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:13:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 13:13:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:20:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:21:37 I'm... getting random reboots. 13:21:41 No idea why. 13:21:57 Phantom__Hoover, is your computer on fire? 13:22:04 No. 13:22:10 I've got no idea 13:22:22 It's near an open window to a garden, maybe a fly's doing it to mess with me. 13:22:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:22:37 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 13:22:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:28:09 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:28:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:50:13 -!- rszeno has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:59:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:01:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:06:08 -!- MSleep has joined. 14:12:07 -!- aloril has joined. 14:16:50 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:29:03 -!- aloril has joined. 14:32:14 -!- AlexeyShentyakov has joined. 14:33:59 -!- AlexeyShentyakov has left. 14:34:36 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:43:08 -!- MDuck has joined. 14:43:49 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 14:43:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:44:11 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:47:23 -!- aloril has joined. 14:56:14 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:56:31 -!- nortti has joined. 15:05:39 @tell elliott I haven’t actually played that many games, i simply did some stat rerolling on a friend’s puny game server whose stats got merged to Sequell later. :-P 15:05:40 Consider it noted. 15:06:47 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:19:18 -!- aloril has joined. 15:27:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:28:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:00:27 LOL 16:00:37 the heap in OS X is executable 16:01:05 even if you mprotect it to readonly 16:02:39 obviously it has to be, exploits would stop working if they changed that 16:07:11 elliott: Also, how would you manage state in an IRC bot that way? An IORef? 16:12:06 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:14:26 oh I am bad at things 16:15:29 like terribad at things 16:19:49 -!- Case1 has joined. 16:28:14 -!- gotama has joined. 16:30:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:37:03 Hey nortti, isn't zsh great? 16:37:41 Phantom__Hoover: I have never used. I'll try it out and say what I think about it later 16:39:14 hmm. seems to be more memory hungy than busybox ash 16:39:54 I like zsh. 16:41:15 I also like https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh 16:41:15 hmm. pretty nice shell but I kinda like busybox ash more. I can sometimes notice little lag with tab completition 16:41:32 It is in fact possible to implement a fully-functioning HTTP server using only shell builtins. 16:41:51 And that's barely scratching the surface. 16:42:00 it has something like nc builtin? 16:42:05 It doesn't have a man page; it has an index for seventeen seperate man pages. 16:43:03 is there some big advantage over ash not counting user friendlines? 16:43:36 also what does 3 in 3:~% prompt mean 16:43:49 It does have the 'zshall' man page, which is a concatenation of the others. 16:44:15 That's cheating :P 16:44:25 Oh, mustn't forget zftp. 16:45:00 zsh: command not found: zftp 16:45:27 Yes; I'm taking certain liberties here, because all this stuff /is/ modularised and has to be loaded first. 16:45:38 It does still come with the shell, though. 16:46:20 Phantom__Hoover: do you know what 3 mean in 3:~% prompt 16:46:50 No, seeing as nobody using zsh uses that prompt. 16:46:57 You need to run the configuration to get a zshrc! 16:47:17 how do I run it? 16:47:24 You haven't tab-completed until you've tab-completed with spelling correction and keyboard-navigable menus. 16:47:58 I don't remember; try zconfigure and obvious abbreviations 16:48:50 zc ^I lists zcat zcip zcompile 16:49:36 *zc^I 16:50:26 hmm. I kinda dislike zsh's tab completition 16:51:19 ok shell and at least better than bash but I prefer ash 16:54:19 I'd rand it above ksh but just below busybox ash 16:54:38 I love being able to type /u/s/d/zsh/RE and have that completed to /usr/share/doc/zsh-beta/README. 16:55:31 nortti: Did you try oh-my-zsh? 16:55:38 ion: no 16:58:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:58:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 16:58:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:00:52 well it is kinda like tcsh for me. I could probably learn to love it but for now it feels strange 17:16:57 -!- madbr has joined. 17:25:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:26:26 -!- david_werecat has joined. 17:42:13 -!- gotama has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/). 17:43:36 hm... how do you handle interrupts in Forth? 17:44:06 what kind of interrupts? 17:44:30 isn't that something you only do in dos programs? 17:44:40 nortti, hardware interrupts? 17:44:50 madbr, I'm targeting a 6802 here... 17:44:56 Vorpal: what are you programming? 17:44:59 presumably you just write pointers to the interrupt vector 17:44:59 ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 17:45:03 same way as you do in any other language 17:45:08 @messages 17:45:08 elliott said 17h 51m 2s ago: glogbot's stupid timezone is UTC 17:45:08 elliott_ asked 12h 37m 53s ago: wake up 17:45:16 ais523, good point 17:45:18 vorpal: You're lucky you're not writing assembly then :D 17:45:28 madbr, well I might need some 17:45:58 elliott said 17h 51m 2s ago: glogbot's stupid timezone is UTC <-- hm? UTC doesn't sound stupid to me 17:46:17 Vorpal: what are you programming? <-- what do you mean? 17:46:20 I don't think there is any problem to handle interrupts in Forth 17:46:28 atm I'm trying to figure out this Forth implementation 17:46:29 Vorpal: what kind of program 17:46:38 which means I'm not coding anything specific just yet 17:47:19 Vorpal: there is no standardised way. you can write to memory locations with ! 17:47:22 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has joined. 17:47:24 <|evilliopttic_PA> hello 17:47:27 <|evilliopttic_PA> hi ais523 17:47:54 nortti, well yeah 17:48:00 hi elliott 17:48:03 <|evilliopttic_PA> rude 17:48:04 <|evilliopttic_PA> 17:45:58: elliott said 17h 51m 2s ago: glogbot's stupid timezone is UTC <-- hm? UTC doesn't sound stupid to me 17:48:07 <|evilliopttic_PA> you're the one who called it stupid 17:48:23 <|evilliopttic_PA> er 17:48:25 <|evilliopttic_PA> rather 17:48:26 <|evilliopttic_PA> ais is 17:48:27 |evilliopttic_PA, uh? 17:48:27 <|evilliopttic_PA> 23:53:50: 00:51 that'll be UTC not glogbot-stupid-timezone 17:48:29 ah 17:48:36 |evilliopttic_PA: what is with that nick 17:48:47 <|evilliopttic_PA> i blended with a bunch of good crawl players 17:48:54 <|evilliopttic_PA> now i'm 100% abomination 17:48:54 it is annoying to type |. That involves altgr 17:49:31 (altgr-<, where < is to the left of z) 17:49:47 shift + key left of 1 on my kb 17:50:01 \ is worse (altgr + key left of 1) 17:50:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:50:15 <|evilliopttic_PA> /nick \evilliopttic_PA 17:50:22 elliott: well I'm awake now 17:50:23 madbr, shift-(key left of 1) gives me ½. That key in question without shift gives me § 17:50:24 madbr: what kind of keybord do you have? 17:50:32 <|evilliopttic_PA> ais523: i'm not 17:50:35 canadian french 17:50:39 this keyboard doesn't have a key to the left of 1 17:50:40 madbr, \ is altgr-+ where + is right of 0 17:50:44 madbr, Swedish keyboard here 17:50:55 hm altgr-§ is ¶ 17:51:01 didn't know that 17:51:10 fun fact: many Americans don't realise what altgr is for at all 17:51:13 I have finnish keybord wich is exactly the same as swedish 17:51:19 because they don't have enough characters in their alphabets for it to be necessary 17:51:20 yeah 17:51:24 ais: yeah classic :D 17:51:50 ais: that's because they have a messed up way to write all the extra vowels over 5 :D 17:52:02 standard Finnish qwerty keyboard doesn't have any alphabets behind altgr-combo either 17:52:08 err, letters 17:52:11 ais523, for me it is only required to type stuff NOT in Swedish, like \ £ @ $ { [ ] } ~ and so on 17:52:39 and ~ is altgr- and then a space 17:52:46 dead keys are annoying 17:52:56 pretty much the same in the UK, the only keys with an altgr marked on them are | (not |, although I think they produce the same character on Linux) and € 17:53:03 ^ and ` have to be done with dead key + space here 17:53:08 there's a ¬ but it's shift-` 17:53:22 ais523, "| (not |" <-- to me those look the same 17:53:33 Vorpal: I think they're the same position in Unicode, on Linux 17:53:37 hm altgr-e is € 17:53:38 I have to type ~ with dead key+space 17:53:43 they generate different characters on Windows, and on DOS 17:53:50 although different different characters on the two OSes 17:53:56 nortti: altgr + ; here 17:53:57 ais523, so which one is the one with the hole in the middle? 17:54:00 "Standard Finnish" is nowadays the new SFS 5966 "multilingual" one, and it does have letters behind altgr; though not letters used in Finnish, exactly. 17:54:01 hmm, altgr-e is e 17:54:04 is that the same letter? 17:54:17 You should make it send 'е' instead. 17:54:19 ais523, as far as I can tell, without using a hex editor on my IRC log files 17:54:20 they look the same 17:54:33 madbr: I have it as altgr+key two keys right of p 17:54:59 you need altgr on us keyboard to type §¶µ I think 17:55:04 fizzie, how does it differ from the Swedish layout (for the non-altgr parts I mean) 17:55:08 whoa, dude, I can send «» with AltGr-[]! 17:55:11 but these symbols are kinda rare 17:55:19 I was using the Compose key all this time! 17:55:28 shachaf: I have [ as altgr+8 17:55:31 $ od -t x 1 17:55:31 ERROR:Word not found 17:55:31 <|evilliopttic_PA> §§§§ 17:55:32 hmm, altgr-e is e 17:55:34 0000000 68 6d 6d 2c 20 61 6c 74 67 72 2d 65 20 69 73 20 65 17:55:36 shachaf, I can do that with altgr-shift-8 and altgr-shift-9 17:55:41 Vorpal: looks like they are both actual ASCII e's 17:55:41 <|evilliopttic_PA> nortti: your bot prefix is not ideal... 17:55:49 ais523, heh 17:55:53 Vorpal: It doesn't. It only has altgry stuff for Sámi and whatever. 17:55:58 |evilliopttic_PA: suggest something bettet 17:56:00 (apparently, letters do actually pluralise with apostrophe-s in English, which must annoy pedants a lot) 17:56:02 fizzie, heh 17:56:02 <|evilliopttic_PA> § 17:56:12 fizzie, do you use that layout? 17:56:17 shachaf: «» are altgr-zx for me 17:56:30 haha, altgr-8 is [ for me too 17:56:32 ais523, that works too for me. 17:56:36 Vorpal: Means they don't have to print out keyboards with different markings, unless they want to. 17:56:36 hm 17:56:37 even though [ is on my keyboard (not even shifted) 17:56:46 ¹²³€½¾{[]} 17:56:56 fizzie, fair enough 17:57:10 ¡@£$¤¥{[]}\ 17:57:17 ais523, ¤ is shift-4 for me. Utterly useless 17:57:28 Vorpal: Apparently not; this is some random Ubuntu-Finnish thing. E.g. it has ¼ as altgr-§, whereas SFS 5966 has some combining diacritic there. (It has more dead-key diacritics than the usual.) 17:57:41 Vorpal: and why is that a useless character? 17:57:49 I've seen it used as a metasyntactic variable for currency characters before now :) 17:58:00 ais523, yes, and I never ever used it 17:58:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:58:18 fizzie, heh 17:58:46 ` is a dead key here, it is shift- 17:58:49 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 17:58:57 so a lot of spaces required 17:59:15 Oh, I use the undead variant of the Finnish keymap, to be more accurate. 17:59:22 undead? 17:59:35 It makes ´`^~¨ not be dead keys. 17:59:40 ah 17:59:40 fizzie: why are you using zombie keymap 17:59:58 fizzie, I thought that was an xkb setting? 18:00:02 <|evilliopttic_PA> ais523: ps, pls advise how to not kill off crawl characters 18:00:09 I just got in the habit; I mean, it does mean less of useless spaces. 18:00:25 I can always do a compose key if I want to combine a ` with something. 18:00:26 elliott: don't play Crawl? 18:00:34 <|evilliopttic_PA> ais523: who's elliott 18:00:35 fizzie, fair enough 18:00:35 I think that's the only 100% reliable method 18:00:51 oh, elliott's a logreader, and I guess he wants to know the answers to the same questions you do 18:01:02 <|evilliopttic_PA> if i don't then 48 hours will pass and someone else will kill it off instead 18:01:07 <|evilliopttic_PA> which isn't idael 18:01:08 <|evilliopttic_PA> ideal 18:01:09 fizzie, hm how do I write é and è with compose? 18:01:21 compose ' e / compose ` e 18:01:21 <|evilliopttic_PA> anyway i'll just wield all the disto stuff i can find and inscribe things with random letters and place nonsense map exclusions everywhere 18:01:25 <|evilliopttic_PA> and pillar-dance for 100k turns 18:01:34 kmc, I guess it doesn't work when ` is a dead key... 18:01:38 will that actually /help/? 18:01:50 <|evilliopttic_PA> ais523: no, but it'll be entertaining 18:02:00 i don't know then 18:02:18 <|evilliopttic_PA> monqy once wielded a disto weapon and then got berserked by xom (or went berserk himself, I don't recall) in front of a hydra with low HP on a round-robin character 18:02:22 <|evilliopttic_PA> then saved 18:02:23 <|evilliopttic_PA> it survived 18:02:38 hahah 18:03:37 <|evilliopttic_PA> oh it's probably been a week since kmc said that 18:03:38 <|evilliopttic_PA> so about that mongolian folk jazz 18:03:42 I configured this via Gnome's keyboard settings thing; apparently the "Finland" variant there is very close to the new standard, while "Finland classic" is this random old thing, but there's only "Finland classic, eliminate dead keys", not "Finland, eliminate dead keys" available, and I haven't managed to care enough to make the correct thing happen. 18:04:09 |evilliopttic_PA: ? 18:04:21 <|evilliopttic_PA> `pastlog kmc.*in.*talking about 18:04:47 what 18:04:53 fizzie, does the new one have µ on altgr-m? 18:04:53 No output. 18:05:02 I just use the deadkeys variant of the swedish layout, but do all coding in american layout 18:05:16 <|evilliopttic_PA> `pastelogs kmc.*talking about 18:05:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:05:21 olsner, that would totally confuse me 18:05:27 (the american layout that is) 18:05:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21914 18:06:02 <|evilliopttic_PA> You said something along the lines of "I come in and you're talking about [Crawl], in a few weeks you'll be talking about [obscure thing]". 18:06:09 <|evilliopttic_PA> I felt like I shouldn't let you down.. 18:06:11 <|evilliopttic_PA> s/\.\././ 18:06:12 ah yes 18:06:13 Vorpal: it's nothing compared to trying to code with a swedish keyboard 18:06:27 Vorpal: Both ones have it. The new one has some shift-altgr extra quotes in the number row; the "proper" doublequotes and that « » thing. 18:06:58 olsner, well, I wouldn't know where to find the keys :P 18:07:10 but once you learn it, it is probably better yeah 18:07:21 It also has an em-dash in altgr-shift-m. 18:07:53 -–— 18:08:07 fizzie, rather than º you mean? 18:08:07 hmm, I wonder if figure dash is anywhere on my compose key 18:08:11 not to mention minus sign 18:08:16 there are so many sorts of dash… 18:08:28 18:08:33 Æ’©ÐEªŊĦıJ&ŁºNØÞΩ®§Ŧ↑‘Ł>¥< 18:08:37 ^ shifted altgr alphabet 18:08:56 <|evilliopttic_PA> å∫ç∂´ƒ©˙^∆˚¬µ~øπœ®ß†¨√∑≈¥Ω 18:09:06 why is shift-altgr-s §? I have that non-shifted... 18:09:09 Vorpal: I had to learn most of the american layout before that anyway, e.g. when using a computer before loading the swedish layout, or without it being properly configured 18:09:12 and non-altgr 18:09:17 Vorpal: According to the keymap viewer, it didn't have anything in altgr-shift-m. º is in altgr-shift-5 here. 18:09:20 so it wasn't a big switch to start doing all coding in american 18:09:27 because altgr-s is ß, which is probably more likely for a Brit to type 18:09:36 as it's a letter in German 18:09:39 olsner, that rarely happens nowdays, unless you are installing really obscure distros. :P 18:09:50 olsner, usually it is enough to know where / is 18:09:55 (to do a loadkeys) 18:10:04 I need to know the US layout because public terminals are set to it sometimes 18:10:04 I'm not sure I could really do the US keymap any longer, but I certainly did use to know it well enough. 18:10:14 ais523, yes but on my layout I mean 18:10:29 <|evilliopttic_PA> i use the us keymap it's nice 18:10:37 Vorpal: well, *nowadays* that's not an issue because I actively use the us layout anyway 18:10:46 olsner, heh 18:11:16 speaking of US layout, don't they have that horrible half-height enter key? 18:11:41 yes, but your keyboard doesn't actually change when setting the layout 18:11:48 so you'll keep your full-height enter key 18:11:48 olsner, well duh 18:11:49 Vorpal: not always, just sometimes 18:11:58 olsner, I was talking about in general 18:12:06 ais523, weird 18:12:33 keyboard layouts might be standardised, but keyboard /shapes/ aren't 18:12:46 heh 18:12:57 well, the standard full size PC keyboard is 18:13:00 surely? 18:13:13 laptop keyboards not so much 18:13:45 I'm sure there's a physical layout in *some* standard, but that doesn't mean it'd be any standard that mattered. 18:13:53 heh 18:14:28 They kept messing with the home/end/del/insert/pageup/down area recently, after all. 18:14:37 The backslash key tends to be differ on different keyboards. 18:14:39 <3 the Trine OST 18:14:41 fizzie, yeah, that is quite horrible 18:14:47 Sgeo, trine 1 or trine 2? 18:14:47 There's the double-sized... is it ins or del? 18:14:50 I prefer the backslash to the right of the quotation mark 18:14:56 Vorpal, um... did not know there's a Trine 2 18:14:59 fizzie, what? I haven't seen that variant 18:15:05 And then ones that turn it from 3x2 to 2x3. 18:15:06 Sgeo, -_- 18:15:15 Sgeo, go play it 18:15:16 Vorpal, and I don't think I like the game that much 18:15:20 WHAT? 18:15:20 But the music's gorgeous. 18:15:30 Sgeo, the game is gorgeous and really fun 18:15:45 Vorpal: One of them is double-sized, and the other moved up to the "useless" break/printscr/whatever row. 18:15:50 only complaint I have about trine 2 is that the story was a bit meh 18:16:01 Everything else should just keep the Model M layout. 18:16:17 but since it is a physics based puzzle platformer, the story isn't really the focus 18:16:20 model m's come in several layouts though 18:16:21 If you do not need separate arrow keys from the numpad, use the original PC layout, but with indicator lights on. 18:16:27 fizzie, "useless"? 18:16:44 <|evilliopttic_PA> yes, useless 18:16:50 printscr is quite useful 18:16:51 <|evilliopttic_PA> all the keyboard to the right of the enter key is useless 18:16:52 at least the enter key size and those 102/103/104 key variants vary between model ms 18:16:56 <|evilliopttic_PA> ok the arrow keys are useful 18:16:58 <|evilliopttic_PA> but that's it 18:17:29 |evilliopttic_PA, oh come on, I use del,home,ende,pgup,pgdown a lot 18:17:38 not so much insert 18:17:39 <|evilliopttic_PA> you're wrong and dumb 18:17:47 and prtsc I use rarely 18:17:49 <|evilliopttic_PA> use a keyboard without them for a while yuo'l become much happier 18:17:54 <|evilliopttic_PA> i used to be numpad dependent but then i used laptops 18:17:57 <|evilliopttic_PA> suddenly no numpad use 18:17:58 I actually used scroll lock a few times 18:18:05 Hey, they've released some new Optimus keyboard models. There's an "Optimus Popularis" that looks like a compact-sized variant of the Maximus. 18:18:19 I have used all the keys on the keyboard a lot 18:18:24 It probably still costs absurd units of money. 18:19:36 fizzie, what is the optimus keyboard? 18:19:43 <|evilliopttic_PA> optimal 18:19:56 sounds awesome 18:20:00 Vorpal: That thing where each key is a small OLED display. 18:20:05 oh that 18:21:39 I’d love to have one of these, but they frigging cost like 1000 €. 18:21:44 http://youtu.be/_rzFqEqzhmA 18:21:54 One of their sample pictures is showing a keyboard where enter/shift are Kerplunk and Boom. 18:22:34 <|evilliopttic_PA> im kreplunt *& boom 18:22:37 <|evilliopttic_PA> efijow 18:22:39 ion, I tried using a MS natural keyboard thingy once, was awkward 18:22:40 <|evilliopttic_PA> gs 18:22:43 <|evilliopttic_PA> ion: aww ye datahand 18:22:46 <|evilliopttic_PA> Vorpal: nothing like datahand 18:22:47 I'm sure it is great once you get used to it 18:22:59 <|evilliopttic_PA> ion: i wanna try one of those 18:23:10 <|evilliopttic_PA> so my hands survive past 24 18:25:44 |evilliopttic_PA: Perhaps you should use a custom keyboard made out of a Power Glove. 18:25:56 fizzie, :D 18:26:02 <|evilliopttic_PA> that's my current solution 18:26:30 <|evilliopttic_PA> 19:26 58. vorpal the Firebug (L8 DrFE), worshipper of Vehumet, slain by a killer bee on D:7 on 2008-02-06, with 1385 points after 9149 turns and 3:24:37. 18:26:32 <|evilliopttic_PA> Vorpal: you're crap at crawl 18:28:12 |evilliopttic_PA, I don't *play* crawl 18:28:15 that is someone else 18:28:17 <|evilliopttic_PA> exactly! 18:30:58 <|evilliopttic_PA> ion: The top comments on that video are even worse than average. 18:31:35 <|evilliopttic_PA> Funny.. Such a "modern" and "ergonomic" keyboard still uses the QWERTY layout. Thousands of English words can be typed with only the left hand. Only a few hundred with the right. If you're typing in English, and using QWERTY, then not only will it slow you down, it will fatigue your left hand a hundred times more than your right hand. 18:31:37 <|evilliopttic_PA> oh my god 18:31:45 <|evilliopttic_PA> do they not realise it is literally irrelevant what layout it is 18:31:48 <|evilliopttic_PA> your fingers DON'T MOVE 18:31:55 uh I don't get the point of ['] in Forth? 18:32:02 how does it differ from '? 18:32:22 Btw, i love how the image of the “traditional keyboard layout” in that video is the Amiga layout, complete with the Amiga keys near Space. 18:33:11 ion, yeah it is funny 18:33:31 ion, also one connector on the back of the datahand looked like a serial cable to me 18:34:36 <|evilliopttic_PA> ion: Well, it *is* traditional. 18:37:27 Vorpal: "If you want the execution token of word, write ['] word in compiled code and ' word in interpreted code." ['] parses the name at compilation time, and then compiles to something that pushes the xt. Or some-such. 18:38:11 fizzie, ah 18:38:26 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:39:27 I'll take you this way that way which way what way oh way my way her way his way their way its way some way any way 18:39:50 …? 18:40:04 Lyrics from a song 18:40:21 seems like quite stupid lyrics to me 18:40:50 they don't really mean anything sensible 18:41:24 I see a way in which they could 18:41:35 (Especially in context of the rest of the song) 18:42:12 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has left. 18:42:44 I think "take" is being used in a sexual sense 18:43:04 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:45:51 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:49:23 Phantom__Hoover: by the way why did you ask me about zsh 18:49:35 NO REASON 18:49:50 Sgeo, why were you quoting lyrics 18:49:53 that is a terrible thing 18:50:29 the esoteric song contest was over days ago 18:51:12 I quote lyrics every now and then. 18:51:17 2011-12-18 00:34:41 "Too many fingers / have I got in my hand / I think there happened a creature / an alien creature" -- paraphrasing some Finnish song lyrics. 18:53:17 What song? 18:53:46 -!- monqy has joined. 18:54:57 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has joined. 18:55:29 <|evilliopttic_PA> `pastlog topic.*international hub 18:55:37 2007-05-02.txt:02:04:50: * pikhq has changed the topic to: - the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or ttp://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ | 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 18:55:43 <|evilliopttic_PA> `pastlog topic.*international hub 18:55:50 2006-08-26.txt:20:21:18: -!- GregorR changed the topic of #esoteric to: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, 18:56:02 ion: The one that goes "Liikaa sormia / ompi mulla kädessä / taisi käydä olio / avaruusolio." 18:56:03 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion,. 18:56:28 <|evilliopttic_PA> monqy: guoess what i gifted you with 18:56:33 ion: http://www.byterapers.scene.org/scene-music.htm "Monta sormee?" 18:57:23 i'm bad at guessing, but it looks awful 18:57:24 monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:57:31 <|evilliopttic_PA> congrautlations 18:57:56 |evilliopttic_PA: not bad enough; several of the links may still work 18:58:04 <|evilliopttic_PA> its good enough for me 18:58:08 <|evilliopttic_PA> especially the cut off 18:58:14 okay 18:58:46 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has set topic: It is 2005 and there is time to be the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment. http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:01:09 fizzie: File not found :-( 19:02:49 `run uname -a 19:02:52 Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 19:09:31 Have you made any file for Internet Quiz Engine yet? 19:12:58 what browsers do you (plural) use? 19:13:06 ion: Oh noes, their FTP seems to have borken. Anyway, http://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?detail=modules&view=6513 claims to have it also, but both opencubicplayer and mikmod barf on the XM file, even though 'file' says it looks just fine. 19:16:59 Hey, I have a mirror of my own. 19:17:22 Let me just dump that somewhere. 19:19:18 just don't break it. 7 years bad luck, you see. 19:19:46 ion: http://zem.fi/tmp/byterapers-modules-humorouscollection/ 19:21:17 oerjan: If you make, say, six copies of a mirror, and then break the copies, does it count as 42 years of bad luck, or don't the copies count since in the grand scheme of things you haven't decreased the number of mirrors? 19:23:31 after you break the first mirror, bad luck will ensure the others count for at least 7 years each. 19:23:45 fizzie: Thankes. 19:39:01 nortti_: For web browser I use my own system which is Mozilla-based, although I prefer the command-line 19:39:14 zzo 19:39:37 zzo38: what kind of command line 19:39:58 UNIX command-line is best, although I use the Windows command-line as well. 19:40:48 I like unix command line, TWENEX command like is also pretty good and DOS is ok 19:42:19 DOS is ok? 19:43:05 At one place I sometimes volunteer at, I gave them a computer, and it has FreeDOS. I programmed it for them, in Forth. 19:44:21 zzo38: for what purpose did you program it to them? 19:44:27 However, there is still no printer. Do you know if there is any driver for FreeDOS to cause outputs to LPT1 and so on to be redirected to the USB port? In case, it is USB printer, but it still has to be PCL 19:44:45 nortti_: It is a database program 19:45:03 olsner: well I have used DOS since I was 7 so it has kinda grown on me 19:45:43 Also do you know what TeX distribution works on FreeDOS and includes a DVI->PCL program? 19:46:27 I don't need PostScript, PDF, e-TeX, and so on; I only use Plain TeX. 19:49:13 The computer that I gave to them, I also got it for free myself too, from FreeGeek; it came with Ubuntu and included CRT, keyboard, mouse, speakers. I didn't take the mouse and speakers and the FreeGeek also let me use their blank DVDs to copy FreeDOS so I could install FreeDOS on there too, and then I installed BBL/Abundance. 19:51:05 The license for BBL/Abundance says you can do absolutely anything you want, except military use. 19:51:08 that remind me how I uses FreeDOS as my main os for around a month 19:51:46 (in 2008) 19:58:37 Does any terminal emulator allow you to push scroll lock to prevent the screen from automatically scrolling and make the arrow keys scroll the window? 19:59:17 I think xterm does but I am not surr 20:00:33 I used to use the 4dos command line, it was quite snazzy compared to plain DOS. 20:00:59 All those pretty coloured directory listings and tab-completions and whatnots. 20:01:27 Windows now has tab-completion but they didn't add those other things 20:01:43 Also if I recall correctly 4dos managed to use less memory than command.com. 20:02:25 Also, the Windows tab-completion works differently from the UNIX tab-completion. 20:03:50 4dos had some amount of customization in tab completion, you could list what sort of extensions which command accepted. 20:04:03 4dos.ini: FileCompletion=cd:dirs; unzip:arj zip zoo exe lzh dirs; pkunzip:zip exe dirs; arj:arj a?? exe dirs; lha:lzh exe dirs; zoo:zoo exe dirs 20:05:16 I also seem to have a colordir setting which says "doc txt me 1st" are text documents; the latter presumably for read.me and readme.1st files. 20:05:47 <|evilliopttic_PA> Doctor, text me first. 20:08:40 Oh, this DOS directory is such a mess of mess. There are different console fonts ans whatever here; those .com things that you run and they replace the current font. 20:09:13 (I had some trouble figuring out what "light.com" and "broadway.com" were, based on the name.) 20:10:06 Files with .DOC may sometimes be Microsoft Word documents, although sometimes they are plain text. Although READ.ME and README.1ST are nearly always plain texts, and FILE_ID.DIZ may be a short description of the downloaded archive in plain text format. 20:10:07 -!- |evilliopttic_PA has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:10:49 There once was a BBS system that put their own "downloaded from" ad into each .zip file, in a file called "KALAA&LI.HAA". 20:11:05 That's Finnish for, basically, "FISH&ME.AT". 20:12:39 They really shouldn't modify the ZIP files; they should only read them to check for the existence of a FILE_ID.DIZ file (in the root directory of the ZIP), in my opinion. 20:13:13 They should also check for a ZIP comment and a password. 20:31:19 I have read that booster packs for some card games have a small chance to be entirely rares. TeXnicard supports this using the "n" flag in a deck list. TeXnicard also supports selecting without replacement ("k" flag) and requiring unique selections ("u" flag), but I do not know if any card games use these. Do you know if they do or not? 20:44:34 Do you like arithmetic IF? 20:44:46 -!- Case1 has left. 20:46:03 arimetric IF? 20:46:27 Arithmetic IF, not arimetric IF. 20:47:37 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:48:33 zzo38: I prefer short-circuiting if, it's more generally useful 20:48:45 I prefer call-by-name semantics to call-by-value generally anyway… 20:49:34 This is one possible implementation of a stack-based arithmetic if in C: register_value v=stack_ptr[-3]; int n=v.number; n=-(n<0?2:!n); stack_ptr[-3]=stack_ptr[n]; stack_ptr[n]=v; stack_drop(); stack_drop(); stack_drop(); 20:49:41 -!- coppro has joined. 20:50:01 ais523: That is useful, too, yes. 20:51:02 If you are wondering why this algorithm is so strange, I can tell you, the reason it is like this is for garbage collection to work. 20:55:16 dc doesn't use this but I think the design of dc would work better with the arithmetic if. 20:59:55 -!- MDuck has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:10:39 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:21:11 dc has if? 21:21:54 nortti_: It does have conditional commands, but they aren't very good in my opinion; arithmetic if would be a better design to fit with the rest of dc. 21:22:34 I agree 21:23:32 dc is Turing complete. 21:23:53 Gregor: Yes, I think you are correct. 21:23:55 Its conditional execution is by conditional macro invocation. 21:23:57 I know I'm correct. 21:24:05 Yes that is also correct. 21:24:07 with only one stack? 21:24:14 It has 256 stacks. 21:24:33 it has? I didn't know that 21:24:40 It has 256 arrays and 256 scalar registers. 21:24:48 As well as a stack. 21:25:09 They're not really arrays, they're only accessible as stacks. 21:25:17 At least not by classic dc. 21:26:34 dc also has bignums. 21:26:47 Indeed. 21:30:02 -!- itidus20 has joined. 21:33:30 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:34:48 What kind of image manipulations commands should I include in TeXnicard? Some of my ideas include: convolve, blur, paste, blend, mask, ... 21:37:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:38:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:39:12 Gregor: The : and ; commands that work on arrays are at least in Unix V7 dc man page; not classic enough for you? 21:40:05 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:40:16 What I already have is that, there are ten bitmaps and ten graymaps which can be manipulated; TeXnicard never works directly on color pictures (the channels will be combined/separated upon export/import). 21:40:40 (Though the indices are limited to 0..2047 in that man page, so it's not an array of arbitrary size.) 21:41:02 Oh, heheh, I forgot that there were numbered arrays along with the named stacks. 21:42:36 My current man dc has a tie between the stacks and arrays -- "Note that each stacked instance of a register has its own array associated with it. Thus 1 0:a 0Sa 2 0:a La 0;ap will print 1, because the 2 was stored in an instance of 0:a that was later popped." -- but the V7 man page mentions that not. 21:44:11 (So in this dc at least there's 256 stacks of arrays.) 21:45:47 -!- coppro has joined. 21:45:53 I have implemented the XKCD variation of Deadfish in dc. (As far as I know, this is *not* the reason why the XKCD variation was invented; I do not know the real reason) 21:47:51 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:48:25 hmm. could an OS be programmed in dc 21:48:45 with some supporting asm 21:49:43 dc does not support that 21:51:36 the xkcd variation was added by an anonymous ip which seems to belong to asiekierka 21:51:54 (based on signing on talk pages) 21:51:57 What reason? 21:52:05 What reason was it added? 21:52:23 no reason given, just "XKCD!" 21:53:03 Was I the first one to use it? Was I the only one to use it? 21:53:11 anyway i just checked it as i remembered it being an anon ip, i wasn't expecting to find it was someone i knew from here 21:53:23 zzo38: i don't recall anyone else implementing it 21:53:41 Someone did say before it belong to asiekierka, but that still doesn't tell what reason it was added. 21:54:35 zzo38: why did you implement the xkcd variation instead of the normal one? 21:55:09 nortti_: Do you know dc? Maybe then you might understand. Look at the implementation code, and then you might understand, too. 21:55:36 It has to do with limitations in dc. 21:57:24 ouch. that code is definitely write only 21:59:19 Are you sure? It should be understandable if you can understand a dc code 22:02:26 I know it is understandable but so is all so called writr only code I have seen before 22:03:13 the channel logs show asiekierka was here that day and the previous, seemingly generally annoying people; he mentioned deadfish but not in connection with xkcd. 22:04:02 anyway i think the dc implementation is good enough reason for the xkcd version to exist. 22:05:46 `log 2008-10-11.txt:07:02:22: What xkcd style comic? 22:06:02 `pastelogs http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2923 22:06:51 oerjan: Yes I think so too, but that probably wasn't the reason the xkcd version was made up at first. 22:07:21 he doesn't seem to have mentioned xkcd since that day. 22:07:44 (or anywhere close to it) 22:08:28 zzo38: well given his general behavior then, i expect it was just a silly joke 22:08:32 here is something! 22:09:02 raises a fist defiantly 22:09:38 the internet probably has cycles within it which correspond to our planetary timezones, days, seasons and years 22:09:56 "duh" 22:10:11 ok correspond might be the wrong word 22:10:58 there is probably big cycles .. i guess that the popularity of a website is involved 22:13:46 Planetary timezones? Do you mean the rate of rotation of all the planets? 22:14:06 ok ill see if i can be cogent 22:16:12 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:16:13 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 22:16:13 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:16:21 -!- Madoka-Kaname has left. 22:16:28 whatever humans (and other life for that matter) does there is always cycles which constrain their activities. for example, sleeping at night due to the lack of light and sunlight. crops growing according to seasons. seasons being predictable in an order 22:17:19 Well, yes, I know that. The sun, moon, Earth's orbit, and Earth's rotation do affect all of these things. 22:18:00 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:18:07 and i am wondering if such things lurk inherently in the internet, or if it is one monotonous industrial machine without such patterns 22:19:14 I have also heard that the human cycle of birth is more in the spring, but I do not know much about that. 22:19:34 maybe because it is manmade it doesn't have those cycles 22:20:10 i read today in the newspaper that women are most amorous in spring, while men are in late summer 22:20:21 -!- nooga has joined. 22:20:46 Even manmade things can have those cycles if they put them in; I think I read somewhere that some companies use lunar payment 22:20:47 I've decided to install Enigma 22:20:51 it probably varies by climate though; this was a norwegian survey 22:20:51 If it's not arleady installed 22:20:51 itidus20 you sound like the voiceover intro to that tv show _Touch_ 22:21:26 oerjan: Then, considering the different population of different places on the Earth, which sun sign would be more common for a person to be born during, and how much? 22:21:32 zzo38: but the very idea of artificially constraining ourselves is so weird.. 22:21:36 and yet we have to do it 22:21:53 itidus20: You do it if you have not a better way to decide 22:22:04 zzo38: i don't know, but someone has probably done the statistics 22:22:17 -> 22:22:32 data-copying is the area i have in mind that we have to constrain ourselves, because data-copying is easy for us if we choose to do it 22:23:15 so many plugs and connectors consist mostly in how incompatible they can be 22:24:34 The music 22:24:37 It's in there! 22:24:42 itidus20: But that has nothing to do with the moon, isn't it? 22:25:30 zzo38: the good thing about the constraints the moon places on us is we simply have no choice.. we don't choose to be constrained by the sun and moon.. we just are 22:27:28 itidus20: Well, yes; with the sun and moon, they do affect us much. The other planets in the solar system do not significantly affect things on the Earth (although, I have read that there are some effects, apparently sometimes Jupiter prevents asteroids from destroying the Earth) 22:27:42 whoa 22:27:48 nice work Jupiter 22:28:44 itidus20: Jupiter is a much bigger target than the Earth is, both in terms of size and gravity well 22:29:01 Yes 22:29:02 so celestial bodies which are on the sort of orbit that might hit things in the ecliptic are much more likely to hit Jupiter than Earth 22:30:34 i blame the coffee for this set of recent posts i just made 22:33:23 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:43:50 Make a quiz file for Internet Quiz Engine, which is based on esoteric programming and the people in this channel, and then put it in the topic message 22:46:36 -!- rszeno has joined. 22:46:54 hi 22:46:56 hi rszeno 22:46:59 `? welcome 22:47:02 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:48:49 hi ais523 22:51:43 a turing machine with one tape limited on one side allways start from first cell, right? 22:53:26 I don't think it /has/ to, but people pretty much assume that it does 22:53:33 well unless someone needs it not to do so, but then they'd presumably note that it doesn't 22:53:35 it starts from the start by convention 22:53:47 hmm, now I'm tempted to make a pointless BF derivative that starts from the second cell 22:53:52 and is otherwise the same as stock BF 22:53:57 (we get a lot of pointless BF derivatives around here) 22:54:46 is any result which say that the two machine are equivalent? 22:55:15 equivalent in what sense? computational capability, obviously 22:55:16 i'm reminded how you usually assume a stack language starts with an empty stack, but if you assume the stack is _not_ empty you can do things like that : drop dup dup - - ; definition mentioned yesterday 22:55:20 one which start to a random position and the one which start from first state 22:55:28 ability to simulate, obviously if you're allowed extra colors/states 22:55:48 if it's a random position rather than a specific non-first position, then they're equivalent because you can't move left anyway because you can't guarantee there's anything there 22:55:56 http://img2.demotywatoryfb.pl/uploads/201205/1338074103_by_admin_inner.gif 22:58:44 -!- itidus22 has joined. 22:59:25 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 22:59:27 i try to extend thue, and when i search for lhs in the input i get a list of possible positions 23:00:14 this make me think to start rewriting to a random position not first one 23:02:35 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:02:42 rewriting result could be different in many cases, depend of the rule set 23:06:28 when i say equivalence i'm thinking to simulation 23:07:34 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:08:20 mainly, same results after runing 23:12:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:17:06 oh, thue is rather different to a TM in the way it operates 23:17:35 replace-at-random Thue (how it's defined) isn't more powerful than replace-from-the-left Thue (apart from being able to produce true randomness), but it is rather different in nature 23:19:33 Is there WEB-IDE, where, for example, you can click a chunk name to move the cursor to its definition, push a key for the table of contents, and so on? 23:22:22 ais523, i'm looking for the simplest solution. if the replace-from-the-left will give same result i will prefere this one 23:22:59 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 23:23:09 rszeno: well, it's a different language; you could convert a program written for one to run in the other, but it might be slower or more complicated 23:24:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:25:02 i'm aware of this 23:26:21 i don't know if automatic conversion from one program to another is possible, probably yes 23:27:23 i'm curious if can be done using combinatory logic 23:27:48 oh, automatic conversion from any TC language to any other is always possible 23:27:54 although sometimes (often, in fact) it's rather ugly 23:28:46 ais523, Brainfuck to Jot 23:29:02 Sgeo: meh, I wrote a P'' interp in Unlambda 23:29:05 it's not too hard 23:29:18 it just looks like an interp for a tape-based language written in a functional language 23:29:30 and obfuscated by the lack of useful variable names, etc 23:29:41 * Sgeo was referring mostly to the I/O thing 23:30:02 I/O is another problem i have, :) 23:30:55 i need some syntax, minimal, to describe the I/O flow 23:31:36 i had search on esolang for ideas 23:38:47 -!- zzo38 has left. 23:39:16 well, i'm curios if this is a mad idea 23:40:37 if i have the grammar g1 for a language, P'' for example and another grammar g2 for another language, Unlambda 23:40:38 `? mad 23:40:42 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 23:41:57 conversion from g1 to g2 is given by a formal system 23:42:46 but a formal system can be described using grammars 23:43:35 the idea is to use thue for all this steps 23:45:18 oerjan, i'm the Cat, :) 23:46:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:46:40 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:46:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:46:54 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:49:39 * rszeno full trio aka cone 23:49:55 wat 23:50:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_%28formal_languages%29 23:51:50 i didn't know about this until few minutes ago 23:53:07 ah transducers 23:53:10 i fact i didn't know is named this way 23:53:28 yes 23:53:33 me neither, but i recall reading about transducers 23:54:00 Well, don't worry about all that, the world's ending today apparently 23:54:01 http://www.the-end.com/ 23:54:49 me too, Mateescu and Salomaa is subject learning in schools here 23:55:11 Sgeo: again? i've barely got over _last_ time... 23:55:42 i didn't learn it from a textbook though, i found it in a math encyclopedia 23:57:25 Sgeo: he seems to be trumpeting his theory there 23:58:23 heh 23:59:33 will be four trumpets, i'm waiting to the 3-rd 23:59:41 http://www.prophecysigns.com/assets/Images/chart16.jpg 2012-05-28: 00:01:53 -!- BlueProtoman has joined. 00:02:11 `welcome BlueProtoman 00:02:15 BlueProtoman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:02:19 Hello, oerjan. 00:10:28 imo thue is perfect for transducers 00:14:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:26:24 Anyone know why my Brainfuck loops aren't working? I think it's the way I'm storing the []'s in a table, I don't think I'm doing it correctly. Code's coming up/ 00:26:41 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:26:50 http://ideone.com/PT6Rp 00:27:11 -!- myndzi has joined. 00:28:40 It looks like it's doing more than checking loops 00:28:53 is brace_table a global variable? 00:28:57 No. 00:29:08 BlueProtoman: don't you need to save backwards jumps as well? 00:29:16 Lemme explain how this works. 00:29:36 I plan on implementing several Brainfuck dialects in my program. To do this, each dialect comes as a class that derives from AbstractBF. 00:29:51 So the Brainfuck class has a std::unordered_map brace_table. 00:30:18 Each entry is a pair of braces; the ['s position is the key and the ]'s position is the element. 00:30:48 When a [ is found, its position is recorded in brace_table, with its element initially being -1. 00:31:43 While all this is going on, I'm pushing [ positions onto a std::stack. 00:32:14 When a ] is found, its corresponding key is found with find(), and then that element is set to the ]'s position. 00:32:27 If any element is equal to -1, something went wrong. 00:32:51 And thus we don't run the program. Problem is, I seem to be looping to the beginning of the program whenever I hit a [. 00:33:17 BlueProtoman: well the bug is probably not in the part you pasted, then. 00:33:22 how does your program deal with jumping from a [ to a ] when the value is zero? 00:33:33 ais523: When the element is 0, you mean? 00:33:38 yes 00:34:10 It doesn't. I should fix that by testing whether tempbracestack is empty or not. 00:34:19 But that doesn't seem to be my problem. 00:34:33 BlueProtoman: um i think he means when the _tape_ value is zero. 00:35:01 oerjan: What do you mean the tape value? I don't quite follow. 00:35:30 BlueProtoman: for the standard brainfuck with a tape of cells 00:35:35 or array 00:35:46 oerjan: Oh, right. Lemme show you. 00:35:55 I handle all BF instructions as function objects. 00:36:11 But first I use a regex to filter out other characters. 00:36:42 Here's my entire class. http://ideone.com/ZTTwA 00:36:49 Including the instructions. 00:39:16 -!- Mefi has joined. 00:41:50 Any thoughts? 00:43:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:45:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:46:06 is instructions[program[currentinstruction++]](); 00:46:15 well defined behavior? 00:46:39 as in, is it guaranteed when the increment happens wrt. the function call? 00:46:53 oerjan: I don't think the timing of the increment wrt the call is guaranteed 00:47:03 although if that doesn't matter, it's well defined in other respects 00:47:17 i'm pretty sure it matters for [ and ] 00:47:19 -!- itidus20 has joined. 00:47:20 unspecified rather than undefined, as in IIRC you're guaranteed that it will definitely happen either before or after 00:47:45 and no, it doesn't matter, just go backwards to the first [ or ] of the group 00:47:49 -!- Mefi has left. 00:47:56 (this actually works!) 00:48:11 (I used the trick to obfuscate a BF interp for the IOCCC once, but it didn't win) 00:48:19 ais523: erm in the given code it matters, currentinstruction is used to look up the point to jump to 00:48:38 oerjan: with [[, there's no way that the second [ can perform a jump 00:48:40 if it has already been incremented, that could well give a zero 00:48:44 likewise, with ]], there's no way the second ] can perform a jump 00:48:57 ais523: erm are you even understanding my point? 00:49:05 so for each [, you can just give the instruction after it the same jump target as the [ itself 00:49:15 I'm understanding your point, but I think you're missing mine 00:49:32 which is that you have enough information to determine where to jump to even with an uncertainty of 1 in the IP 00:49:44 ais523: sheesh. you're being irrelevant to the code we're actually trying to debug. 00:50:03 oh, this is debugging? I thought you were trying to find a creative way to write a BF interp 00:50:52 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:50:58 BlueProtoman: anyway, try putting the currentinstruction++ in a separate command afterwards. 00:50:59 oerjan: If instructions (which is a std::unordered_map>) returns nothing, it'll throw an exception, which I catch. 00:51:16 oh hm 00:51:25 or wait 00:52:08 BlueProtoman: that's not the problem. the instruction is found fine, but the code for [ needs currentinstruction to _not_ be incremented in between 00:52:11 afaiu 00:52:24 If it returns no function object, then we've hit a character that isn't a Brainfuck instruction, and was somehow missed by the regecx. 00:52:26 *regex. 00:52:27 well assuming my guess is right 00:53:04 OK, I'm getting somewhere. Still not finished, though. 00:53:06 Hold on. 00:53:25 BlueProtoman: my guess is that (1) the instruction for a [ is looked up, correctly (2) currentinstruction++ is incremented, too early (3) the code for [ breaks because of (2) 00:53:59 What's the third most relevant architecture beyond x86[_64] and ARM? PPC? MIPS? 00:54:07 Probably PPC. 00:54:10 oerjan: For some reason, I get �� as my output. 00:54:11 yeah 00:54:17 maybe some pic stuff 00:54:19 That is SUCH a distant third. 00:54:24 AVR? 00:54:30 Gregor: All current-gen consoles use it. 00:54:30 You know, for Arduinos. 00:54:35 pikhq: Yeah, that's true. 00:54:41 Arduinos are a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of all AVRs in use 00:54:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:54:47 Hm. 00:54:52 PIC and AVR and their friends probably outnumber x86 and ARM by a large factor 00:55:09 BlueProtoman: what happens if you replace instructions[program[currentinstruction++]](); with instructions[program[currentinstruction]](); currentinstruction++; ? 00:55:11 I really mean general-purpose MMU-capable archs *shrugs* 00:55:17 Arduinos are expensive as hell 00:55:20 but what ebout the amount of software written for it? 00:55:21 Why are they that expensive anyways 00:55:31 are they still 50$? 00:55:34 Lumpio-: there are plenty of cheap clones 00:55:35 oerjan: I get garbage output, but no infinite loop. 00:55:38 i thought they were like $30 00:55:41 ouch 00:55:43 Looks like this; �� 00:55:47 BlueProtoman: ok scratch that then :( 00:55:58 I've come to see Arduinos as a representation of the new hipster electronics generation 00:55:58 It means I'm on the right track, though, doesn't it? 00:56:03 Them, and sparkfun 00:56:12 Expensive as hell but buy is it hip and cool 00:56:17 BlueProtoman: well it means it changed the behavior, at least. 00:56:20 s/buy/boy/ 00:56:27 Lumpio-: arduinos are reasonable development boards 00:56:37 * oerjan defers to real c++ experts, and goes for food -> 00:56:41 if you build a project around an arduino and leave it in there, that's kind of silly 00:56:48 Yeah, but that's what they do. 00:56:53 lumpio: haven't seen anything interesting sound synthesis wise from that stuff 00:56:57 but really you're whining about someone spending an extra $20 here and there 00:56:59 kinda disappointing 00:57:01 madbr: Arduino? 00:57:09 these are largely people with jobs who make more than $20 an hour 00:57:23 though I guess arduino isn't very good for audio anyways 00:57:38 Do the AVRS used in arduinoes even have hardware multiplication 00:57:53 maybe they just want to make something cool, not spend all day soldering chips by hand to appease some crusty old electronics beardo 00:58:07 basically you sound like more of a hipster than them 00:58:15 "i was into electronics before it was cool and accessible" 00:58:38 Any tips for my Brainfuck interpreter? I no longer get infinite loops with my output, but I do get garbage output (and I know that the program doesn't run completely). http://ideone.com/4dXq8 00:59:00 this is like the people who whine about any software not written in C 00:59:22 omg think of all the inefficiency, i'm using literally megabytes of memory, or 0.025% of the total available on my system 00:59:44 BlueProtoman, you are outside of the program, probably after it 00:59:46 Lumpio-: to answer your question, no the ATmega328 and friends do not have hardware multiply 00:59:51 ook 00:59:59 rszeno: What makes you say that? 01:00:16 kmc: ...actually I wasn't into electronics before it was cool and accessible .__. 01:00:19 output 01:00:26 Lumpio-: so you're a *poseur* hipster :) 01:00:28 I've barely even played with MCUs yet 01:00:54 look like reading a random place in memory 01:00:58 I do have ideas and plans to build a new computer, probably using an existing CPU architecture for practical purposes; if I could build a MMIX which is cost-effective I would do that; GCC already can compile for MMIX. However I will also need a GPU or DSP; can you recommend one which has Free software and can do audio and video? 01:01:25 rszeno: I don't see how that's possible, since I have a check to make sure the program stops running when currentinstruction > program.size(). 01:01:56 Gregor: PPC is used in game consoles and a lot of embedded stuff, MIPS also used in embedded stuff plus Chinese government is pushing it, s390 / s390x still quite relevant in enterprise 01:02:16 PPC might be the most common synthesizable core for FPGAs 01:02:17 i guess you change beaviour when you play with indexes 01:02:35 Why is Chinese government pushing it? 01:02:42 Wow, s390 still gets used? 01:02:57 zzo38: Because x86 is dominated by untrustworthy capitalist swine 01:02:58 Maybe I should use an iterator instead? 01:03:03 s 01:03:32 They're making their own processors so they can have hardware spyware on them 01:03:38 Gregor: IBM doesn't believe in letting things die. 01:03:50 yeah that's kind of the point of buying enterprise stuff 01:04:15 Lazy people use enterpricey stuff with long-term support. 01:04:18 imo is a bad idea to use oop and streams for this but probably is only my opinion, :) 01:04:20 True haxors live on the bleeding edge 01:04:25 haha 01:05:03 Can you suggest the CPU, GPU, DSP to use? 01:05:09 hmm actually the #1 (publicly known) supercomputer in the world is based on SPARC64 01:05:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:05:35 Can we make a Checkout compiler to any GPU? 01:06:39 is it possible to use a fast gpu from anything else than PC, ARM or PPC? 01:07:01 Does zzo38 even need anything besides a text mode? 01:07:34 For what I am making, it needs user-definable modes. The BIOS can include the text mode built-in 01:08:04 And it need to support composite video out, and preferably also component video out. 01:08:15 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:08:33 What kind of resolution are we talking about 01:08:44 NTSC 01:08:51 Not PAL? :( 01:09:08 I could make a PAL version as well, but at first just NTSC 01:09:08 At any rate, that kind of resolution is not really hard to generate. 01:09:30 Make your own little GPU out of an FPGA or something. 01:09:40 lumpio: sounds hard no? 01:09:55 Nah, NTSC is easier to generate and practically all modern TVs support it 01:09:59 Not only will an FPGA might be slow, but the ones I know of are encrypted and lack Free software 01:10:00 madbr: What does? 01:10:21 Slow? 01:10:23 pffrt 01:10:38 designing a nice gpu that does something else than just regurgitate the content of the VRAM 01:10:40 FPGA might be slightly slow, possibly 01:10:46 And what do you mean encrypted, are you talking about the dev tools? 01:11:14 madbr: A RAMDAC is all a true programmer needs! 01:11:16 ¬u¬ 01:11:23 Lumpio-: Yes. Also the program to load into the FPGA is encrypted for all the ones I know of 01:11:30 What kind of stuff did you have in mind >madbr 01:11:35 Tiles? Sprites? 01:11:37 ...3D? 01:11:44 zzo38, http://www.milkymist.org/mmone.html ? 01:11:52 3d is kinda hard so I was thinking more like tiles and sprites :D 01:12:26 Tiles and sprites shouldn't be /that/ hard 01:12:26 tiles or other static layers aren't too hard actually, it's sprites that are hard 01:12:54 At least with the kind of power we have these days 01:13:15 well, with the kind of power we have you can just use a framebuffer 01:13:42 Then again I've never done any video output more advanced than http://qp.virkkunen.net/private/jbxmAAqned 01:13:57 was thinking something like a snes/genesis style chip 01:14:00 ...I should really get back to that thing and add a stable clock source, the jitter is awful 01:14:15 that generates a scanline worth of data each scanline 01:15:14 one nice idea I had was to precalculate which sprite is on top of each pixel 01:15:22 No. Oh no. Why am I considering looking at Eiffel again 01:15:24 and then just load the pixel that's on top 01:15:42 so that you have more or less "infinite fillrate" 01:15:50 ie can put lots of large objects 01:16:02 haven't figured out how to do lots of small sprites though :/ 01:16:19 Sprite systems usually have fixed sizes for sprites anyways 01:16:25 (Or a couple of choices) 01:16:33 And to make large objects you use a lot of small sprites. 01:18:08 well, yeah most classic sprite systems use transparent colors 01:18:23 BlueProtoman: is +1 correct in currentinstruction = brace_table.find(currentinstruction)->first +1; ? 01:18:34 which means you have to read every potential pixel to see if it uses the transparent color 01:18:48 which puts an absolute limit on fillrate 01:18:52 oerjan: It should be. That puts me at the instruction past the ]. 01:19:29 BlueProtoman: past the [ you mean? but you have a currentintstruction++ to be performed after that, you know... 01:19:33 (ie if a pixel is hidden by another pixel, you can't have it for free) 01:19:41 *currentinstruction++ 01:19:50 oerjan: Wait. I don't understand. Mind elaborating on what I'm doing wrong? 01:20:24 BlueProtoman: does that +1 in the code for ] take into account that currentinstruction is automatically incremented after each instruction run? 01:20:27 essentially I think it would make more sense to store the transparency mask separately 01:20:45 oerjan: It might not, actually. 01:20:59 madbr: But you still have to read each pixel of the mask 01:21:04 Do software developers usually write code with only half an idea of what they're doing? 01:21:16 lumpio: but the mask can be 1bpp 01:21:27 So? 01:21:29 BlueProtoman: all the time, i hear (but then i'm not a software developer) 01:21:31 BlueProtoman: yes, at least me 01:21:37 which means you're reading 32 pixels at the same time if your memory bus is 32 bits 01:21:44 Oh, OK. 01:21:50 OR 01:21:57 the mask can be stored as segments 01:22:03 Where does that mask come from in the first place 01:22:08 Does each sprite have one? 01:22:31 "segment 1 starts at pixel a and finishes at pixel b, segment 2 starts at pixel c and finishes at pixel d" 01:22:53 lumpio: yeah 01:23:29 but yeah if you're using a segment list you still have to read the segment list 01:23:40 BlueProtoman: btw did i mention at the start that i thought the brace_table should contain entried for the ]'s as well? then you don't need an expensive find afaiu 01:23:42 so there's still a limit on the number of sprites you can put onscreen 01:23:47 *entries 01:23:48 Is EiffelStudio good? 01:24:00 Are there good alternatives if I want to write proprietary programs in Eiffel? 01:24:05 oerjan: It does. The key is the ['s, the element is the ]'s 01:24:17 BlueProtoman: no i mean, index _both_ ways 01:24:27 oerjan: I could use a multimap for that, I guess. 01:24:29 then it's just a simple lookup either way 01:24:47 Maybe. BRB, dinner 01:25:47 (I dunno if somebody's already mentioned this but is there a point in indexing loops beforehand?) 01:27:04 Lumpio-: in bf? well i guess you _could_ do it as you go, but it's a natural part of parsing... 01:27:23 if you do software rendering VGA style, you probably have to precompute the transparency mask of each sprite too 01:27:28 Also speaking of sound synthesis on MCUs 01:27:32 it's definitely more efficient than searching for the matching [] every time :P 01:27:37 http://qp.virkkunen.net/private/edjvvEcfiH 01:27:42 checking every pixel for transparency is way too slow 01:27:43 This is as far as I got before getting bored ¬u¬ 01:28:05 This thing doesn't have a hardware multiplier either so it can only handle 3 or 4 channels or so 01:28:12 Lumpio-: wait was your question about something completely different? :P 01:28:13 Also due to my lacking math-fu there's an awful lot of noise. 01:28:20 oerjan: Nope 01:28:56 what's the waveform? 01:29:25 you can do a nice soundtrack in 4 channels 01:29:26 Well you can at least find backward jumps by keeping a stack of open loops 01:29:33 ...provided that you have lots of sample data :D 01:29:40 But I guess forward jumps would still result in a scan 01:29:52 It's just a simple sine wave 01:29:58 With an envelope I drew in GIMP 01:30:06 After looking at a sample of a music box. 01:30:37 It would work better with music with less low notes. 01:30:50 But I couldn't be bothered to look for more MIDI files 01:31:06 what's the max data size? 01:31:12 umm 01:31:18 I think that thing had 8kB of memory 01:31:30 ah yeah 8kb is too tight for a MOD 01:32:02 Oh actual samples would be much easier to play, you could play way more tracks 01:32:15 But an envelope means at least one true multiply per sample 01:32:27 well, with samples you probably want volume 01:32:32 (True as in it cannot be optimized completely into a series of shifts and adds because both arguments are unknown) 01:32:50 Nah you can do decent music with a constant volume for each sample 01:32:52 Pre-multiplied 01:32:53 though some old DOS software cheated and used a LUT for the volume :D 01:33:08 was still a 16k LUT tho 01:33:20 heh 01:33:33 Well I could have LUTs for a couple of levels of volume I guess 01:33:34 lumpio: doesn't that multiply the amount of data you need very fast? 01:33:41 Assuming 8-bit output one LUT is only 256b 01:33:55 some HW synths totally optimize out the multiply too 01:34:02 How does that work 01:34:10 yamaha FM synths have no multipliers 01:34:18 I couldn't figure out how to do it without a true multiply 01:34:26 what they do is that they don't store sin(x) 01:34:33 they store log(sin(x)) 01:34:37 ooh 01:34:39 and exp(x) 01:34:40 :D 01:34:43 oooo 01:34:45 Mathematical! 01:34:47 I get it 01:34:58 You know that might work 01:35:04 hmm 01:35:20 Actually now that I think of it I think I've heard of that before 01:35:43 for better emulation of the yamaha fm chips, someone actually de-encapsulated one and read the bits out of the LUT with a microscope 01:38:11 kmc, imo will be a good start to jump to image processing and forget about audio for all the rest of his life, :) 01:38:36 kmc: yeah I remember seeing that 01:38:57 kmc: I think the opl3 has a real multiplier instead of the logsin + exp thing 01:40:08 Does an IDE which has a license saying you may only use it for "free" projects count as "free"? 01:40:25 (Not asking about EiffelStudio in particular, although that inspired the question) 01:41:57 rszeno: huh? 01:42:54 i saw a chip ones was a simple one, i suspect a yamaha fm is more complicated 01:43:20 yamaha fm isn't that complicated 01:43:22 it's smart :D 01:44:02 meh now I have to try the log/exp thing out 01:44:35 essentially it has one oscillator and one enveloppe 01:44:44 and multiplexes the hell out of it :D 01:47:14 so most of the chip is taken up by registers actually 01:48:57 How do you generate multiple frequencies with a single oscillator? 01:50:31 armonics? 01:50:59 the 'oscillator' is a lookup table for sin(x) (or log(sin(x))) right? 01:51:05 yeah 01:51:10 lumpio: easy 01:51:14 so for each sample you can have several internal clock cycles 01:51:22 and latch the output into a different register each time 01:51:45 you store the current phase for each oscillator in a different register 01:51:51 and current frequency too 01:52:12 audio sample rate is way below any reasonable clock rate for logic, so this is a good tradeoff 01:52:35 for each oscillator, you read the phase, read the frequency, add together, store that back in the phase register 01:52:39 oh 01:52:43 So it's not actually just one oscillator 01:52:47 well 01:52:56 Just one look-up table with multiple oscillators built around it 01:53:02 ...that's what I did with my thing. 01:53:08 they need different phase registers 01:53:17 and different parameter registers of course 01:53:24 but all the processing logic is shared 01:54:23 I would like the DSP or GPU to be able to do tiles, sprites, and video playback. 3D rendering is not important. 01:54:23 like, read phase 1, read freq 1, add, write phase 1, process waveform 1, process volume 1, add to total register 01:54:37 then, read phase 2, read freq 2, add, write phase 2, process waveform 2, process volume 2, add to total register 01:54:49 etc, repeat for all the channels 01:55:04 then take the total register and write that to the DAC 01:55:36 zzo: I'm not sure hardware tiles are that useful :D 01:55:45 they'Re easy to do tho 01:56:01 video playback is different though 01:56:38 depends on if you'Re fine with paletted video essentially 01:56:43 madbr: It doesn't need the feature to do tiles built-in to the hardware! What I mean is, that it is capable of being programmed to do these things. 02:00:10 hm 02:01:33 by the time you have a superscalar pipelined architecture and if you don't have too much pixels to fill, you can do that in software 02:01:41 ie pentium 02:02:40 essentially you need enough fillrate to fill the screen at least once per frame 02:04:16 because then, aside from the transparency stuff (best SNES feature!), you can use smart code to fake any numbers of layers etc you like and limit overdraw 02:04:16 For video playback it is OK if it requires the CPU and the GPU or DSP to work together 02:04:35 is paletted (256 color?) video ok? 02:04:48 or it has to be some proper algo like mpeg? 02:04:57 No. It has to be proper video such as Theora or Dirac. 02:05:32 ok then you need a beefy cpu 02:06:16 might need hardware FFT even 02:06:55 you're jumping in the hundreads of mhz range 02:07:26 which means all the 2d stuff will be totally fine and you've got so much cpu that you can just software mix the audio 02:07:54 OK. The criteria are that it is not extremely expensive and does not require proprietary software to program it 02:07:56 unless you want high resolution on the 2d (640x480 or more?) 02:08:14 I told you, the resolution should be enough for NTSC. 02:08:17 oh 02:08:22 then 320x240 is enough 02:08:26 Just standard definition 4:3; no high definition is needed. 02:08:43 essentially you need an ARM system on a chip 02:09:06 Which one? ARM7? ARM11? 02:09:19 dunno 02:10:07 Other than the processors, hard drive, optical drive, connectors, etc, I intend to design the rest of the hardware myself such as what is connected and in what way, as well as most of the software too. 02:10:35 does decoding theora require floating point? 02:10:39 or dirac 02:11:05 I don't know. 02:11:59 if you need fast floating point that rules out arm11 I think 02:14:26 But I intend to design how the memory and that stuff is connected myself, in an attempt to prevent such things as DRM from being programmed in, as well as for other purposes too. Even if the ARM11 does not have fast floating point, whatever CPU is used if a GPU or DSP which is not tooo expensive and does not require proprietary software to use, can do some things the CPU doesn't, that might work too. 02:17:20 GPUs tend to be proprietary 02:17:49 I know that; but is there a DSP which would be sufficient for this purpose? 02:17:59 on the raspberry pi I think you can't even write to the GPU in hardware, you have to boot in linux and use precompiled drivers 02:18:06 depends 02:18:28 for 3d, software rendering is reasonable at low resolutions with beefy processors 02:18:36 if you can live without bilinar filtering :D 02:19:30 I don't need 3D rendering; although surely someone will program it to make some (perhaps not particularly good quality) 3D rendering if they want to. 02:19:36 sometimes SIMD stuff helps 02:21:25 -!- itidus22 has joined. 02:22:36 but yeah 3d hardware implementation details are jealously guarded these days as far as I can tell, a bit silly 02:25:18 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:25:34 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:26:08 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 02:44:15 -!- BlueProtoman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:05:51 -!- rszeno has left. 03:11:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 03:21:29 -!- rszeno has joined. 03:50:03 -!- itidus21 has left ("Leaving"). 04:10:55 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:49:19 -!- jaba has joined. 04:50:44 -!- jaba has quit (Client Quit). 04:51:12 -!- rszeno has left. 05:09:10 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:30:18 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:32:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:34:54 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 05:37:06 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:41:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:35:23 -!- rszeno has joined. 06:40:01 -!- rszeno has left. 06:48:20 -!- augur has changed nick to poststructuralis. 06:48:42 -!- poststructuralis has changed nick to augur. 07:02:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:03:43 Hello! 07:07:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:19:46 -!- nooga has joined. 07:20:42 kmc: People's explanations of things in #haskell irritate me these days even though I can't pinpoint exactly why. 07:20:50 I should probably just pull a kmc and leave. 07:21:40 that's right 07:21:58 just stand up, put on shades, make some kind of witty parting remark 07:22:05 then casually flick a lit cigarette behind you as you leave 07:22:06 Like ddarius? 07:22:10 causing the whole place to go up in flames 07:22:14 00:22 ddarius was last seen on #haskell 80 days, 5 hours, 14 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: BMeph: No. 07:22:19 did ddarius have a witty parting remark 07:22:20 @seen kmc 07:22:20 Unknown command, try @list 07:22:38 00:22 kmc was last seen 3 seconds ago, saying: 07:22:49 oh heh 07:22:53 cause i just asked it in pm ;P 07:22:58 Sploisprot. 07:23:00 it was some boring quote from #git 07:23:01 sorry bro 07:23:08 brochaf 07:23:21 sorry, bro. sbarro. 07:23:43 You should've said the launch code to #haskell as you were leaving. 07:23:58 the launch code to #haskell is (repeat 0) 07:23:59 > repeat 0 07:24:00 [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... 07:24:04 you have to type the whole thing, though 07:24:07 > last (repeat 0) 07:24:12 Terminated 07:25:04 I guess lambdabot doesn't compile with -O 07:25:13 > lаst (repeat 0) 07:25:14 0 07:28:56 > last $ map (flip showCReal pi) [1..] 07:29:00 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 07:29:03 Aw. 07:32:49 gotta sleep 07:32:52 'night all 07:42:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:43:49 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:59:20 good morning europe! 08:03:01 A bit late for a morning. 08:03:37 i just woke up 08:03:39 I suppose English doesn't have a word for the time between morning and noon? 08:03:48 late morning? 08:03:49 ;D 08:04:06 "(late) morning" is how wiktionary translates the Finnish word for it. 08:04:16 ("Aamupäivä", lit. "morningday".) 08:04:44 fizzie, no, because it's still morning. 08:04:47 we've got something like beforenoon - "przedpołudnie" 08:05:08 I mean why would you need to granularise further? 08:05:11 They've got 'afternoon', I think they should have some sort of 'prenoon' or whatever. 08:05:17 Yes. 08:05:25 It's called 'morning'. 08:05:31 and afternoon is "popołudnie" 08:05:45 Morning is a lot shorter than afternoon and evening together, which is why the latter are split. 08:06:08 It's unsymmetrical is what it is. 08:06:25 Ah, but your waking hours aren't centred on noon. 08:07:12 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:07:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:07:45 Waking, schmaking. 08:09:56 Now I made the local program for Internet Quiz Engine. Currently it can only be used with local files and does not support uploading or downloading, although I might add those things later on. 08:11:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:11:16 Hello 08:11:29 .olleH 08:12:26 The program is written in Haskell but calls the C program, so you need the compiled C program as well. 08:22:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:23:24 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:36:35 -!- aloril has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:41:00 -!- aloril has joined. 08:51:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:01:21 THE FINAL COUNTDOWN WAS MADE BY SWEDES????????????? 09:01:23 RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH 09:02:09 So? 09:02:19 i hate swedes 09:02:20 so much 09:02:30 except olsner but he was adopted 09:09:31 Sweden beat Lithuania in the Eurovision :/ 09:09:37 I likes Lithuania's entry 09:11:00 Sweden beat everyone. 09:11:09 By quite a margin, too. 09:12:18 I know, I watched it 09:12:41 I "watched" it. By which I mean tried desperately not to fall asleep. 09:12:48 I missed a bit of Croatia's and Iceland's, and the second half was talked over by more people than the weird guy who talks over it on the TV 09:14:14 Norway managed to lose the most. Well, from those that made it to the finals, anyway. 09:14:31 Finland was #12 in the first semifinal, they say. So it wasn't *that* far. 09:18:53 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:19:21 -!- aloril has joined. 09:20:25 Where did Englelbrert Humperdinck come? 09:21:09 Second last 09:21:24 :D 09:21:57 The votes were annoyingly unpolitical in that Malta didn't vote for us 09:27:42 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:31:04 You did get some points from Ireland, though. 09:31:13 Humperdick, sorry, -dinck got 5 from Estonia, 4 from Ireland, 2 from Latvia and 1 from Belgium. 09:32:52 -!- Fishspill has joined. 09:33:01 Hello. 09:33:28 -!- Fishspill has set topic: It is 2012 and there is time to be the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment. http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 09:33:34 `WELCOME Fishspill 09:33:44 FISHSPILL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 09:34:02 -!- Fishspill has set topic: It is 2005 and there is time to be the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment. http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 09:34:26 Why hello there. 09:34:42 That is the loudest welcome. 09:35:21 Aw, the uppercased URL (still?) no work. 09:35:27 ^rainbow FISHSPILL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 09:35:28 FISHSPILL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING ... 09:36:23 Wow, what a welcome. With it being 2005 and all. 09:36:24 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:37:42 ^rainbow THE YEAR OF LINUS TORVALDS ON THE DESKTOP 09:37:42 The output length limit of that is somewhat sad; it only goes up to, well, not very many letters. 09:37:43 THE YEAR OF LINUS TORVALDS ON THE DESKTOP 09:37:49 ^bf ,[>,]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!0123456789 09:37:50 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456 ... 09:38:15 whoa, dude, that's a fancy extension there. 09:38:20 200ish or so. 09:38:21 Does it just specify stdin? 09:38:44 Well, it is where the , comes from. 09:38:58 That's what I mean. 09:39:36 If you "^def foo bf bar", then "^foo baz" will be equivalent to "^bf bar!baz"; I think it might even be implemented like that. 09:40:30 Or perhaps not, since what's stored in the state file is the parsed and bytecode-compiled version. Anyway. 09:46:16 -!- derdon has joined. 09:47:46 -!- aloril has joined. 09:49:15 -!- olsner has joined. 10:13:08 -!- Fishspill has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:26:41 -!- rszeno has joined. 10:27:16 -!- rszeno has left. 10:38:22 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:50:25 -!- aloril has joined. 11:03:16 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:36:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:38:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:39:17 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:39:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:40:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:51:00 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:51:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:07:46 I'm listening to a talk titled "Semitheoretical Computer Science - what has changed in 30 years". 12:08:39 Sounds slightly like the Diet Coke edition of computer science. 12:15:22 That'd taste awful 12:17:33 No sugar! 12:22:02 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:22:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:42:55 This is a somewhat rambling presntation. 12:52:46 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 13:04:24 Aaah should I make a github account 13:04:28 I'm going with probably not 13:11:28 fizzie, so what has changed in 30 years? 13:29:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:36:43 Phantom_Hoover: Uh, apparently we've become responsible. 13:36:51 That's what he said, anyway. 13:37:08 "We" being computer scientists. 13:37:56 you werent responsible 30 years ago? 13:43:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:45:04 Gah. 13:45:14 Respectable, I was going to say. 13:45:20 Or supposed to say. 13:45:39 Sorry, I'm technically presenting a poster here. 13:46:09 techically? 13:46:13 -!- MDude has joined. 13:46:47 Well, I'm just IRCing at the moment, am I not? 13:47:19 I think I'll make a quick walkaround. 13:51:43 -!- elliott has joined. 14:00:03 hmm, is "print to PDF" in a PDF reader a plausible way to extract individual pages from a PDF file? 14:05:37 heh 14:05:37 elliott: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:05:41 help 14:10:43 Hello elliott 14:14:06 ais523: pdftk is one quite plausible way. But purely practically speaking that might also be. 14:20:09 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:20:52 -!- MDude has joined. 14:26:22 00:55:58: I've come to see Arduinos as a representation of the new hipster electronics generation 14:26:31 does anyone remember when "hipster" actually meant something (even if it was a stupid meaning) 14:27:34 01:24:00: Are there good alternatives if I want to write proprietary programs in Eiffel? 14:27:38 i really don't want to know the background to this 14:28:01 elliott, a bizarre sudden fascination with Eiffel 14:28:09 why do you hate me 14:29:39 ais523: can you pause irc for five hours please 14:30:09 elliott: why 14:30:21 i need to watch monqy win a 0-rune mummystabbing spst of chei 14:30:28 and the recording is 5 hours 14:31:24 Win 0-rune? 14:32:16 Sgeo: runes used to be real items 14:32:18 so you could just drop them 14:32:21 and win with less than 3 runes 14:32:26 Ah 14:32:29 This bizarre Let's Play Roguelikes fetish you've developed recently is weirding me out. 14:32:30 but dtsund pulled in the patch to goldify them 14:32:35 so that won't work as soon as the server is updated 14:32:40 so it was a race to win a 0-runer before that happened 14:32:45 Gregor: totally 14:32:52 actually i just started playing crawl because monqy told me to 14:33:01 and then i ended up writing a huge patch to light, oops 14:33:11 and now i can't go back or i'll realise how much of my life i'm wasting 14:33:26 * Gregor nods sagely. 14:34:32 So I can't find a torrent for the latest episode of Game of Thrones, I am very worried. 14:35:03 Gregor: Anyway I've always liked roguelikes, I've just been too lazy to actually play them. 14:35:13 But I can't ignore monqy's demands. 14:35:30 Didn't you give up on Nethack after you lost a save because of its anti-scumming measures. 14:35:52 My exact phrasing, "Let's Play Roguelikes" wasn't an accident, the weird part is recording yourselves and passing around recordings X-D 14:35:57 Phantom_Hoover: No, I was just annoyed with it for a day or two. 14:36:01 Gregor: The servers automatically record them. 14:36:18 Gregor: And there's scripts to play amusing deaths/etc. on a termcast TV thing. 14:36:40 Gregor: Also you can spectate live. I don't actually download and watch entire games unless they're monqy doing ridiculous things, that would be weird :P 14:36:58 But a mummystabbing SpSt of chei is definitely stupid enough to watch 5 hours of. 14:37:01 Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmm 14:37:38 Gregor: At least I don't watch and pass around recordings of My Little Pony! 14:37:40 Q.E.D. 14:37:57 (OR DO I????) 14:37:58 (No.) 14:38:06 (I watch it live, obviously. (I don't actually.)) 14:38:08 * Gregor huffs. 14:38:23 WELL THEN. *goes back to writing erotic #esoteric fanfics* 14:38:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:39:21 Can we see a sample of that. 14:39:38 (ais has left because he's too much of a prude.) 14:40:12 No. 14:40:15 We've already seen enough. 14:40:17 Last time it involved me. 14:40:25 I forget who else it involved. 14:40:27 monqy? 14:40:41 elliott is not comfortable with his BURNING PASSIONS 14:40:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:42:35 elliott and asiekierka! 14:42:40 Nonowait, it was oklopol. 14:42:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:42:43 hi ais523 14:42:47 oh 14:42:55 did it involve a bath of sprite and/or coke 14:42:56 elliott, do you even have a life to waste? 14:43:02 `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude 14:43:07 Taneb: No. But I'm doing my darndest anyway. 14:43:15 `addquote `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude 14:43:22 846) `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude 14:43:28 >_> 14:43:37 No output. 14:43:44 And I misremembered the quote to boot. 14:44:00 `log klopol.*nude 14:44:15 2012-05-28.txt:14:43:02: `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude 14:44:18 :) 14:44:24 `log klopol.*naked 14:44:30 2011-05-29.txt:10:50:16: i don't like carrying stuff in my pockets either so really i'd just prefer being naked and carrying whatever i need in my hands 14:44:34 Protip: `pastlog. 14:44:45 2012-05-09.txt:23:34:50: He sat, nonchalantly, one finger running unthinkingly but tantalizingly up and down his strong, toned thigh. It wasn't unusual for oklopol to be here, waiting for elliott's arrival, but something was different today. oklopol was not typically nude. 14:45:05 I'm pretty sure oklopol is, in fact, typically nude. 14:45:25 @ask oklopol Usually nude confirm/deny 14:45:25 Consider it noted. 14:45:52 Gregor, deserves a Bulwer-Lytton. 14:46:02 Obviously it is too shit for the Lyttle Lytton though. 14:50:44 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:24:26 how should zzo38's deadfish implementation for dc work? 15:27:05 Mmmm, the satisfaction of seeing a stupid answer self-deleted. 15:30:03 always a great supervisor meeting when you get to define 2 15:30:20 my supervisor wasn't convinced that I+I was always equal to 2*I 15:30:32 so I pointed out that it was correct with the only reasonable definition of 2, even if the things you were dealing with weren't integers 15:30:46 :D 15:32:18 ais523, should've proven it from the ring axioms. 15:32:23 Phantom_Hoover: I did 15:32:30 well, we're dealing with semirings, not rings 15:32:36 but the same axioms still apply 15:33:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:35:07 I'm more worried that your supervisor thought that a+a might not be 2*a without even giving a definition of 2. 15:36:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:36:50 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:36:58 -!- ais523_ has joined. 15:38:07 hi ais523_ 15:38:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:38:34 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 15:38:46 huh, my commands were interpreted out of order 15:39:12 I sent the /ns ghost before the /nick, but the /nick errored out before the ghost worked 15:40:20 ha! another problem i can blame on imperative style! 15:44:05 What would non-imperative style do 15:44:19 functional style IRC? 15:44:27 Phantom_Hoover: not have that problem 15:44:49 (right? (you kidding)) 15:45:17 i'm not kidding, but "functional" is incorrect 15:45:52 alliot 15:45:57 elliotian 15:46:50 what 15:50:37 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:50:56 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:56:41 (fwiw: define 2 as 1+1, now I+I = (I*1)+(I*1) = I*(1+1) = I*2 = 2*I) 16:09:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:11:24 Phantom_Hoover: no, it was made by europe 16:22:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:26:03 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:26:15 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:28:24 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:28:32 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 16:28:32 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:29:38 Hello! 16:30:19 helo 16:37:44 -!- MDude has joined. 17:22:28 Goodbye 17:22:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:22:42 godby 17:23:45 tanebye 17:26:45 elliott: did you see my pun about the final countdown? 17:26:51 no 17:26:59 well i saw the pun 17:27:02 but not what it was in reply to 17:27:19 " THE FINAL COUNTDOWN WAS MADE BY SWEDES?????????????" 17:32:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:37:06 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:37:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:53:26 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:54:08 -!- MDude has joined. 17:56:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:01:39 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:16:29 source materials.gcf/hl2/materials/matsys_regressiontest/background.vtf http://i.imgur.com/HwK3D.png 18:17:03 hi cat 18:19:38 -!- monqy has joined. 18:20:47 @messages? 18:20:47 monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:20:57 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:36:04 TIL: Scottish nationalists object to the term "Queen Elizabeth II" as it implies that there was a Queen Elizabeth I 18:36:11 well, some of them 18:40:34 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:47:36 Do you hate "miss" that much? 18:51:00 zzo38: what does your deadfish implememtstion in dc require from dc imppementation? I couldn't get it to work with my dc 18:53:36 It is GNU dc 18:54:03 Although maybe it could be modified to work with another one 18:55:12 ok... I use V7 dc 18:55:27 *6 19:02:47 "To exit, use `q' . C-c does not exit; it is used to abort macros that are looping, etc. (Currently this is not true; C-c does exit.)" GNU dc manual page 19:05:15 Hmm, looks like Minecraft's development is going ahead full-steam now Jeb and the Bukkit team are working on it. 19:05:22 I almost wish I hadn't tired of it. 19:05:32 Wait, s/almost// 19:11:24 Is there library for gopher and HTTP POST in Haskell? (People in #haskell channel answered the second part) 19:11:57 Phantom_Hoover: s/I /I / 19:12:55 zzo38: if there isn't, you could write one 19:13:10 ais523: How? I tried, but it doesn't work. 19:13:26 zzo38: same way as you write a library in any other language 19:14:15 ais523: he tried, but it doesn't work 19:14:40 I have written libraries in Haskell before, but I cannot get it to work with gopher 19:22:53 "The survey tested respondents’ knowledge of cookies, asking them to confirm if a number of statements about cookies were correct or not. Ou tof the sixteen statements only one was answered correctly by th emajority of respondents." 19:23:59 what was it? "The cookie monster eats cookies"? 19:24:05 it didn't say 19:24:14 I'm hoping it'll say later, this is a 31-page document 19:24:23 about how to comply with the new UK laws about cookies 19:24:47 elliott: this reminds me, your login screen should probably contain a note that logging in will set a cookie to record the fact that you're logged in 19:25:04 hmm, do anons get cookies set too? 19:25:04 why should it? 19:25:09 olsner: new UK laws about cookies 19:25:09 i'll wait for mediawiki to implement that 19:25:13 i doubt the law will stand 19:25:18 is the wiki hosted in the UK though? 19:25:22 yes 19:25:23 I think so 19:25:26 it doesn't matter, though 19:25:29 i'm in the uk 19:25:33 so i'm probably liable anyway 19:26:03 I think sweden has the same silly cookies law 19:26:18 the whole of the EU does, it's an EU-wide law that's being implemented by the individual member companies 19:26:44 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 19:26:53 I don't personally find it silly, partly because I have all cookies on manual approval atm (apart from a few websites I use a lot and are set to always-approve, and some that use so many I had to set them to always-disaprove because I was bored of clicking through notifications) 19:27:03 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:27:07 something that reduces the number of approvals I need would be nice 19:27:17 [20:25] i just installed kde 19:27:19 [20:25] what the FUCK 19:27:20 this could be fun :) 19:27:21 the decision to accept cookies or not has always been on the client side anyway 19:27:35 yes, but browsers accept them by default 19:27:59 the EU have been campaigning against anticompetitive or privacy-breaking defaults 19:28:01 But that isn't the government's job to fix 19:28:42 It may be good for them to campaign against anticompetitive or privacy-breaking defaults, but still, that doesn't mean they have to fix it by making a law against it 19:28:43 zzo38: I think you'll find it is the job to fix anticompetitive and privacy-breaking behaviour by corporations. 19:28:49 *job of the government 19:28:57 It has been suggested that the fact that a visitor has arrived at a webpag eshould be sufficient evidence that they consent to cookies being set o rinformation being accessed on their device. The key here is that the visito rshould understand that this is the case. It is important to note that it would b eextremely difficult to demonstrate compliance simply by showing that a use rvisited a particular site or was served a particular advertisement 19:28:58 unless it coul dalso be demonstrated that they were aware this would result in cookies bein gset. 19:28:59 In fact, regulating corporations is pretty much the definition of the convernment's job in a capitalist society. 19:29:04 *government's 19:29:11 Or, at least, the government should tell the people who install those browsers by default to fix it 19:29:21 Since they are the ones needed fixing 19:29:23 The government tells people to do things by passing laws. 19:29:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:30:01 It isn't the job of the server to change the settings on the client 19:30:32 btw, I approve of the anti-cookie law partly because the same reasoning's being used on EULAs 19:30:40 (that people just click through EULAs without reading them, thus they have no legal force) 19:31:57 But, yes, the government should tell the people who sell computers to change those settings 19:32:23 And if they refuse they have to put a warning label on the box 19:32:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:32:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:33:07 Full ack. 19:33:28 elliott: you're /probably/ OK if it's just session cookies, not analytics 19:33:38 It's the browser manufacturers job. 19:33:58 ais523: I break the law pretty frequently anyway 19:34:12 mroman: well, it's not like browser managers can make all cookies prompt-by-default reasonably 19:34:19 elliott: ouch, seriously? 19:34:25 ais523: yes 19:34:26 it's pretty rare for me to intentionally break it 19:34:28 I know 19:34:34 elliott: True. 19:34:42 mroman: I think no browser vendor wants to be the first with the "confusing popup with lots of confusing settings" box that will have to pop up for every page load 19:34:45 mroman: it'd just make everyone use outlaw browsers :P 19:34:47 Which makes it also the governments job, sadly. 19:34:58 mroman: more importantly, very few browsers are UK-based 19:35:05 As it is responsible for the safety of its citizens. 19:35:17 anyway I don't object to the privay-based intent 19:35:21 but I think the execution is a little problematic 19:35:23 it's too technological 19:35:54 It should not be the browser manufacturer's job; it is the computer manufacturer's job to change the settings before selling the computer, or including a warning label on the computer. 19:36:11 zzo38: yes, that would accomplish precisely nothing 19:36:14 Warning labels are useless. 19:36:24 because everyone would just ignore the label, or download a browser as soon as they get it 19:36:58 Browsers are in a very good position to make demands actually. 19:37:04 Websites have to work with browsers. 19:37:26 They do also the other way, but that must not be. 19:37:59 well, there's already the browserchoice thing, which requires the default browser on Windows to be a menu presenting the five most popular Windows browsers in random order and asking the user to choose one 19:38:17 well, the websites have to work with IE6 and the other browsers have to work with those websites :) 19:38:19 Like firefox or opera? 19:38:25 They both suck at security. 19:38:45 opera is best for security!!1 19:38:48 mroman: what is secure briwser then? 19:39:00 mroman: well, browsers are not really in a good position to make demands 19:39:01 The one that allows nothing per default. 19:39:07 if you make a demand that inconveniences users 19:39:11 then the users will use another browser 19:39:12 And requires the user to load whitelists. 19:39:39 which are configfiles. 19:39:57 which say when browsing on what page, what the browser is allowed to do. 19:40:45 Well, yes that way would work. 19:43:34 http://codepad.org/sfsarUbh 19:43:38 ^- I want something like that. 19:44:00 and tab isolation. 19:44:04 COMPLETE tab isolation. 19:44:20 Just because I'm logged in on somesite doesn't mean that I should be logged in in any other tab. 19:44:41 Because if I want that, I would somehow tell my browser that (through such a configuration file) 19:44:50 you should use opera mini then, keep all your tabs on iceland :> 19:45:10 I like things like that too; be able to configure settings for each domain or even separate for subdomains whether inherit or not, and path and filenames too. 19:45:38 mroman: complete tab isolation=each tab runs on its own machine? 19:45:52 nortti_: Each tab has its own "browser context" 19:46:05 like its a different browser 19:46:12 Perhaps the UK government should sell computers that do not have any web browser program 19:46:12 that means 19:46:17 no cookie sharing between tabs 19:46:20 whatsoever. 19:46:56 mroman: I do agree it would be a good idea that you can have multiple sessions without cookie sharing. 19:47:15 I would want browsers to only work with such configuration files 19:47:25 which deny almost everything by default. 19:47:53 And siteowners may provide such a file 19:48:05 (like robots.txt or some mechanism like that) 19:48:27 The user then can view it, accept and adjust it. 19:48:49 they'll just say "for the best experience, please enable all features", and obviously most sites will be made so that nothing works unless you do exactly that 19:49:12 Yeah. 19:49:22 So? 19:49:31 What they should do is discourage HTTP and HTML 19:49:40 The user accepted it. 19:49:55 clearly 19:50:02 well, it will make your system suck (as in, give extra useless prompts) for everyone except the paranoid, and 99.99% of users are not paranoid 19:50:09 and he had the chance to tell the browser EXACTLY what to do. 19:50:42 -!- elliott has left ("this is stupid"). 19:50:48 :) 19:51:01 If you know your town 19:51:02 -!- coppro has left ("nooo come back"). 19:51:07 even if you're not paranoid 19:51:17 there are certain areas or streets you avoid. 19:51:20 For a good reason. 19:51:29 Why not adopt that behaviour to the internet. 19:51:49 they'll just say "for the best experience, please enable all features", and obviously most sites will be made so that nothing works unless you do exactly that <-- I have now found /two/ sites that cover the entire screen with a