< 1338163313 2644 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1338163331 867381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome BlueProtoman < 1338163335 124265 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1338163339 290399 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, oerjan. < 1338163828 690524 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo thue is perfect for transducers < 1338164061 11179 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1338164784 200120 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know why my Brainfuck loops aren't working? I think it's the way I'm storing the []'s in a table, I don't think I'm doing it correctly. Code's coming up/ < 1338164801 649881 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1338164810 389325 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/PT6Rp < 1338164831 399738 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338164920 416114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it's doing more than checking loops < 1338164933 999731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is brace_table a global variable? < 1338164937 86455 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1338164948 898906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: don't you need to save backwards jumps as well? < 1338164956 46102 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme explain how this works. < 1338164976 919220 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on implementing several Brainfuck dialects in my program. To do this, each dialect comes as a class that derives from AbstractBF. < 1338164991 363012 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Brainfuck class has a std::unordered_map brace_table. < 1338165018 622271 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each entry is a pair of braces; the ['s position is the key and the ]'s position is the element. < 1338165048 37050 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a [ is found, its position is recorded in brace_table, with its element initially being -1. < 1338165103 330830 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While all this is going on, I'm pushing [ positions onto a std::stack. < 1338165134 964027 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a ] is found, its corresponding key is found with find(), and then that element is set to the ]'s position. < 1338165147 698429 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If any element is equal to -1, something went wrong. < 1338165171 447055 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus we don't run the program. Problem is, I seem to be looping to the beginning of the program whenever I hit a [. < 1338165197 782208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: well the bug is probably not in the part you pasted, then. < 1338165202 338404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does your program deal with jumping from a [ to a ] when the value is zero? < 1338165213 481274 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: When the element is 0, you mean? < 1338165218 739698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1338165250 140619 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. I should fix that by testing whether tempbracestack is empty or not. < 1338165259 437523 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't seem to be my problem. < 1338165273 101905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: um i think he means when the _tape_ value is zero. < 1338165301 261668 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What do you mean the tape value? I don't quite follow. < 1338165330 363674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: for the standard brainfuck with a tape of cells < 1338165335 635245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or array < 1338165346 589871 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, right. Lemme show you. < 1338165355 286484 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I handle all BF instructions as function objects. < 1338165371 37054 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I use a regex to filter out other characters. < 1338165402 624549 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my entire class. http://ideone.com/ZTTwA < 1338165409 303616 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the instructions. < 1338165556 973875 :Mefi!~eskim@d165-234.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1338165710 795488 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts? < 1338165816 75524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1338165951 206768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1338165966 598693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is instructions[program[currentinstruction++]](); < 1338165975 634369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well defined behavior? < 1338165999 336052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, is it guaranteed when the increment happens wrt. the function call? < 1338166013 145616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think the timing of the increment wrt the call is guaranteed < 1338166023 709089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if that doesn't matter, it's well defined in other respects < 1338166037 733086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it matters for [ and ] < 1338166039 819356 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338166040 101743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unspecified rather than undefined, as in IIRC you're guaranteed that it will definitely happen either before or after < 1338166065 290236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it doesn't matter, just go backwards to the first [ or ] of the group < 1338166069 788256 :Mefi!~eskim@d165-234.icpnet.pl PART :#esoteric < 1338166076 323801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this actually works!) < 1338166091 950238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used the trick to obfuscate a BF interp for the IOCCC once, but it didn't win) < 1338166099 547821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm in the given code it matters, currentinstruction is used to look up the point to jump to < 1338166118 724122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with [[, there's no way that the second [ can perform a jump < 1338166120 348611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has already been incremented, that could well give a zero < 1338166124 666221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, with ]], there's no way the second ] can perform a jump < 1338166137 300405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm are you even understanding my point? < 1338166145 207710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for each [, you can just give the instruction after it the same jump target as the [ itself < 1338166155 655336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm understanding your point, but I think you're missing mine < 1338166172 153117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that you have enough information to determine where to jump to even with an uncertainty of 1 in the IP < 1338166184 421227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sheesh. you're being irrelevant to the code we're actually trying to debug. < 1338166203 1784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is debugging? I thought you were trying to find a creative way to write a BF interp < 1338166252 188017 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338166258 924613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: anyway, try putting the currentinstruction++ in a separate command afterwards. < 1338166259 807944 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If instructions (which is a std::unordered_map>) returns nothing, it'll throw an exception, which I catch. < 1338166276 931068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1338166285 854543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1338166328 500331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: that's not the problem. the instruction is found fine, but the code for [ needs currentinstruction to _not_ be incremented in between < 1338166331 417395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu < 1338166344 454320 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it returns no function object, then we've hit a character that isn't a Brainfuck instruction, and was somehow missed by the regecx. < 1338166346 909742 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regex. < 1338166347 949653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well assuming my guess is right < 1338166384 677661 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm getting somewhere. Still not finished, though. < 1338166386 427546 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on. < 1338166405 867251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: my guess is that (1) the instruction for a [ is looked up, correctly (2) currentinstruction++ is incremented, too early (3) the code for [ breaks because of (2) < 1338166439 27684 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the third most relevant architecture beyond x86[_64] and ARM? PPC? MIPS? < 1338166447 437425 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-224.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably PPC. < 1338166450 735137 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: For some reason, I get �� as my output. < 1338166451 447186 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1338166457 699602 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some pic stuff < 1338166459 967358 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is SUCH a distant third. < 1338166464 446482 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVR? < 1338166470 140397 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-224.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All current-gen consoles use it. < 1338166470 336669 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for Arduinos. < 1338166475 980655 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, that's true. < 1338166481 789349 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arduinos are a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of all AVRs in use < 1338166485 629045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1338166487 651649 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1338166492 223406 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC and AVR and their friends probably outnumber x86 and ARM by a large factor < 1338166509 573499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: what happens if you replace instructions[program[currentinstruction++]](); with instructions[program[currentinstruction]](); currentinstruction++; ? < 1338166511 82335 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really mean general-purpose MMU-capable archs *shrugs* < 1338166517 905043 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arduinos are expensive as hell < 1338166520 277983 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what ebout the amount of software written for it? < 1338166521 671088 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are they that expensive anyways < 1338166531 362457 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they still 50$? < 1338166534 561015 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: there are plenty of cheap clones < 1338166535 694414 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I get garbage output, but no infinite loop. < 1338166538 955621 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they were like $30 < 1338166541 449901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1338166543 345336 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like this; �� < 1338166547 841681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: ok scratch that then :( < 1338166558 453 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come to see Arduinos as a representation of the new hipster electronics generation < 1338166558 707159 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means I'm on the right track, though, doesn't it? < 1338166563 712109 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them, and sparkfun < 1338166572 204807 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expensive as hell but buy is it hip and cool < 1338166577 5128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: well it means it changed the behavior, at least. < 1338166580 320282 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/buy/boy/ < 1338166587 778754 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: arduinos are reasonable development boards < 1338166597 175966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION defers to real c++ experts, and goes for food ->
< 1338166601 645431 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you build a project around an arduino and leave it in there, that's kind of silly < 1338166608 222489 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that's what they do. < 1338166613 314886 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: haven't seen anything interesting sound synthesis wise from that stuff < 1338166617 270056 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really you're whining about someone spending an extra $20 here and there < 1338166619 235867 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda disappointing < 1338166621 599551 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Arduino? < 1338166629 275461 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are largely people with jobs who make more than $20 an hour < 1338166643 320316 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess arduino isn't very good for audio anyways < 1338166658 369969 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the AVRS used in arduinoes even have hardware multiplication < 1338166673 41393 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they just want to make something cool, not spend all day soldering chips by hand to appease some crusty old electronics beardo < 1338166687 634321 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you sound like more of a hipster than them < 1338166695 35754 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i was into electronics before it was cool and accessible" < 1338166718 169299 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any tips for my Brainfuck interpreter? I no longer get infinite loops with my output, but I do get garbage output (and I know that the program doesn't run completely). http://ideone.com/4dXq8 < 1338166740 33123 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like the people who whine about any software not written in C < 1338166762 937836 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg think of all the inefficiency, i'm using literally megabytes of memory, or 0.025% of the total available on my system < 1338166784 301682 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, you are outside of the program, probably after it < 1338166786 504135 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: to answer your question, no the ATmega328 and friends do not have hardware multiply < 1338166791 571883 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ook < 1338166799 554948 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rszeno: What makes you say that? < 1338166816 531031 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ...actually I wasn't into electronics before it was cool and accessible .__. < 1338166819 156766 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :output < 1338166826 264524 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: so you're a *poseur* hipster :) < 1338166828 426739 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've barely even played with MCUs yet < 1338166854 115428 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look like reading a random place in memory < 1338166858 237741 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have ideas and plans to build a new computer, probably using an existing CPU architecture for practical purposes; if I could build a MMIX which is cost-effective I would do that; GCC already can compile for MMIX. However I will also need a GPU or DSP; can you recommend one which has Free software and can do audio and video? < 1338166885 901631 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rszeno: I don't see how that's possible, since I have a check to make sure the program stops running when currentinstruction > program.size(). < 1338166916 710889 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PPC is used in game consoles and a lot of embedded stuff, MIPS also used in embedded stuff plus Chinese government is pushing it, s390 / s390x still quite relevant in enterprise < 1338166936 758106 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC might be the most common synthesizable core for FPGAs < 1338166937 530496 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you change beaviour when you play with indexes < 1338166955 333538 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Chinese government pushing it? < 1338166962 817167 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, s390 still gets used? < 1338166977 495 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because x86 is dominated by untrustworthy capitalist swine < 1338166978 788279 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should use an iterator instead? < 1338166983 544482 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1338167012 675761 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're making their own processors so they can have hardware spyware on them < 1338167018 620708 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-224.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IBM doesn't believe in letting things die. < 1338167030 242905 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's kind of the point of buying enterprise stuff < 1338167055 456808 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy people use enterpricey stuff with long-term support. < 1338167058 801957 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo is a bad idea to use oop and streams for this but probably is only my opinion, :) < 1338167060 690735 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True haxors live on the bleeding edge < 1338167065 434687 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1338167103 80781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you suggest the CPU, GPU, DSP to use? < 1338167109 319032 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm actually the #1 (publicly known) supercomputer in the world is based on SPARC64 < 1338167125 762445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1338167135 479094 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make a Checkout compiler to any GPU? < 1338167199 651711 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to use a fast gpu from anything else than PC, ARM or PPC? < 1338167221 499690 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does zzo38 even need anything besides a text mode? < 1338167254 691425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what I am making, it needs user-definable modes. The BIOS can include the text mode built-in < 1338167284 844450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it need to support composite video out, and preferably also component video out. < 1338167295 293481 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BB1C.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1338167313 964913 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of resolution are we talking about < 1338167324 225746 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC < 1338167331 569140 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not PAL? :( < 1338167348 456175 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a PAL version as well, but at first just NTSC < 1338167348 664779 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, that kind of resolution is not really hard to generate. < 1338167370 997148 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make your own little GPU out of an FPGA or something. < 1338167380 302760 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: sounds hard no? < 1338167395 167 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, NTSC is easier to generate and practically all modern TVs support it < 1338167399 986281 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only will an FPGA might be slow, but the ones I know of are encrypted and lack Free software < 1338167400 675690 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: What does? < 1338167421 81598 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow? < 1338167423 811144 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffrt < 1338167438 641165 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :designing a nice gpu that does something else than just regurgitate the content of the VRAM < 1338167440 920273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGA might be slightly slow, possibly < 1338167446 271812 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what do you mean encrypted, are you talking about the dev tools? < 1338167474 455964 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: A RAMDAC is all a true programmer needs! < 1338167476 799974 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬u¬ < 1338167483 846944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: Yes. Also the program to load into the FPGA is encrypted for all the ones I know of < 1338167490 516166 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of stuff did you have in mind >madbr < 1338167495 466860 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiles? Sprites? < 1338167497 216128 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...3D? < 1338167504 410924 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://www.milkymist.org/mmone.html ? < 1338167512 171590 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d is kinda hard so I was thinking more like tiles and sprites :D < 1338167546 292124 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiles and sprites shouldn't be /that/ hard < 1338167546 566201 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiles or other static layers aren't too hard actually, it's sprites that are hard < 1338167574 316181 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with the kind of power we have these days < 1338167595 470146 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with the kind of power we have you can just use a framebuffer < 1338167622 137647 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again I've never done any video output more advanced than http://qp.virkkunen.net/private/jbxmAAqned < 1338167637 343169 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was thinking something like a snes/genesis style chip < 1338167640 74637 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I should really get back to that thing and add a stable clock source, the jitter is awful < 1338167655 140569 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that generates a scanline worth of data each scanline < 1338167714 908889 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice idea I had was to precalculate which sprite is on top of each pixel < 1338167722 896127 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Oh no. Why am I considering looking at Eiffel again < 1338167724 141267 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just load the pixel that's on top < 1338167742 292322 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you have more or less "infinite fillrate" < 1338167750 388548 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie can put lots of large objects < 1338167762 166993 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't figured out how to do lots of small sprites though :/ < 1338167779 179357 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sprite systems usually have fixed sizes for sprites anyways < 1338167785 500731 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or a couple of choices) < 1338167793 478907 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to make large objects you use a lot of small sprites. < 1338167888 962668 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah most classic sprite systems use transparent colors < 1338167903 751998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: is +1 correct in currentinstruction = brace_table.find(currentinstruction)->first +1; ? < 1338167914 749283 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you have to read every potential pixel to see if it uses the transparent color < 1338167928 802506 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which puts an absolute limit on fillrate < 1338167932 828887 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It should be. That puts me at the instruction past the ]. < 1338167969 415577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: past the [ you mean? but you have a currentintstruction++ to be performed after that, you know... < 1338167973 964555 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ie if a pixel is hidden by another pixel, you can't have it for free) < 1338167981 97940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*currentinstruction++ < 1338167990 371957 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait. I don't understand. Mind elaborating on what I'm doing wrong? < 1338168024 832846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: does that +1 in the code for ] take into account that currentinstruction is automatically incremented after each instruction run? < 1338168027 363321 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially I think it would make more sense to store the transparency mask separately < 1338168045 148595 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It might not, actually. < 1338168059 565085 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: But you still have to read each pixel of the mask < 1338168064 693970 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do software developers usually write code with only half an idea of what they're doing? < 1338168076 988436 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: but the mask can be 1bpp < 1338168087 989134 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1338168089 42210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: all the time, i hear (but then i'm not a software developer) < 1338168091 947404 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: yes, at least me < 1338168097 72341 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you're reading 32 pixels at the same time if your memory bus is 32 bits < 1338168104 77392 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK. < 1338168110 146202 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1338168117 878560 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mask can be stored as segments < 1338168123 600202 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does that mask come from in the first place < 1338168128 132182 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does each sprite have one? < 1338168151 546448 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"segment 1 starts at pixel a and finishes at pixel b, segment 2 starts at pixel c and finishes at pixel d" < 1338168173 843041 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: yeah < 1338168209 248642 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if you're using a segment list you still have to read the segment list < 1338168220 141621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: btw did i mention at the start that i thought the brace_table should contain entried for the ]'s as well? then you don't need an expensive find afaiu < 1338168222 133197 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's still a limit on the number of sprites you can put onscreen < 1338168227 455134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*entries < 1338168228 490296 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is EiffelStudio good? < 1338168240 566060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there good alternatives if I want to write proprietary programs in Eiffel? < 1338168245 139508 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It does. The key is the ['s, the element is the ]'s < 1338168257 46932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: no i mean, index _both_ ways < 1338168267 753875 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I could use a multimap for that, I guess. < 1338168269 122367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's just a simple lookup either way < 1338168287 594904 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. BRB, dinner < 1338168347 206346 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I dunno if somebody's already mentioned this but is there a point in indexing loops beforehand?) < 1338168424 705656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: in bf? well i guess you _could_ do it as you go, but it's a natural part of parsing... < 1338168443 305710 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do software rendering VGA style, you probably have to precompute the transparency mask of each sprite too < 1338168448 981927 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also speaking of sound synthesis on MCUs < 1338168452 250485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely more efficient than searching for the matching [] every time :P < 1338168457 481187 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qp.virkkunen.net/private/edjvvEcfiH < 1338168462 176576 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking every pixel for transparency is way too slow < 1338168463 718254 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is as far as I got before getting bored ¬u¬ < 1338168485 773455 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing doesn't have a hardware multiplier either so it can only handle 3 or 4 channels or so < 1338168492 451802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: wait was your question about something completely different? :P < 1338168493 721385 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also due to my lacking math-fu there's an awful lot of noise. < 1338168500 11097 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Nope < 1338168536 189122 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the waveform? < 1338168565 209707 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do a nice soundtrack in 4 channels < 1338168566 352486 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you can at least find backward jumps by keeping a stack of open loops < 1338168573 513628 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...provided that you have lots of sample data :D < 1338168580 485068 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess forward jumps would still result in a scan < 1338168592 120134 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a simple sine wave < 1338168598 892094 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an envelope I drew in GIMP < 1338168606 593064 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :After looking at a sample of a music box. < 1338168637 960966 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would work better with music with less low notes. < 1338168650 356579 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I couldn't be bothered to look for more MIDI files < 1338168666 458577 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the max data size? < 1338168672 391168 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1338168678 687093 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that thing had 8kB of memory < 1338168690 925547 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah 8kb is too tight for a MOD < 1338168722 498162 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh actual samples would be much easier to play, you could play way more tracks < 1338168735 792947 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an envelope means at least one true multiply per sample < 1338168747 473354 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with samples you probably want volume < 1338168752 776636 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(True as in it cannot be optimized completely into a series of shifts and adds because both arguments are unknown) < 1338168770 112516 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah you can do decent music with a constant volume for each sample < 1338168772 273438 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-multiplied < 1338168773 726688 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some old DOS software cheated and used a LUT for the volume :D < 1338168788 263382 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was still a 16k LUT tho < 1338168800 385795 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1338168813 342159 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I could have LUTs for a couple of levels of volume I guess < 1338168814 882079 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: doesn't that multiply the amount of data you need very fast? < 1338168821 315587 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming 8-bit output one LUT is only 256b < 1338168835 935854 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some HW synths totally optimize out the multiply too < 1338168842 779543 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work < 1338168850 81610 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yamaha FM synths have no multipliers < 1338168858 25989 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure out how to do it without a true multiply < 1338168866 440854 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they do is that they don't store sin(x) < 1338168873 911997 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they store log(sin(x)) < 1338168877 507914 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1338168879 890643 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exp(x) < 1338168880 680094 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1338168883 273593 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooo < 1338168885 875526 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematical! < 1338168887 69669 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it < 1338168898 217321 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that might work < 1338168904 921069 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1338168920 224866 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually now that I think of it I think I've heard of that before < 1338168943 559369 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for better emulation of the yamaha fm chips, someone actually de-encapsulated one and read the bits out of the LUT with a microscope < 1338169091 161947 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, imo will be a good start to jump to image processing and forget about audio for all the rest of his life, :) < 1338169116 966716 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah I remember seeing that < 1338169137 784680 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the opl3 has a real multiplier instead of the logsin + exp thing < 1338169208 336775 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does an IDE which has a license saying you may only use it for "free" projects count as "free"? < 1338169225 213126 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not asking about EiffelStudio in particular, although that inspired the question) < 1338169317 123679 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rszeno: huh? < 1338169374 235465 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw a chip ones was a simple one, i suspect a yamaha fm is more complicated < 1338169400 61766 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yamaha fm isn't that complicated < 1338169402 526229 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's smart :D < 1338169442 369037 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh now I have to try the log/exp thing out < 1338169475 792337 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially it has one oscillator and one enveloppe < 1338169484 215610 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiplexes the hell out of it :D < 1338169634 170563 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most of the chip is taken up by registers actually < 1338169737 500959 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you generate multiple frequencies with a single oscillator? < 1338169831 549113 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :armonics? < 1338169859 161575 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'oscillator' is a lookup table for sin(x) (or log(sin(x))) right? < 1338169865 127274 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1338169870 896025 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lumpio: easy < 1338169874 881835 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for each sample you can have several internal clock cycles < 1338169882 998099 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and latch the output into a different register each time < 1338169905 33605 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store the current phase for each oscillator in a different register < 1338169911 879151 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and current frequency too < 1338169932 469552 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio sample rate is way below any reasonable clock rate for logic, so this is a good tradeoff < 1338169955 829511 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each oscillator, you read the phase, read the frequency, add together, store that back in the phase register < 1338169959 106866 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1338169963 366586 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not actually just one oscillator < 1338169967 789847 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1338169976 601180 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one look-up table with multiple oscillators built around it < 1338169982 237368 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's what I did with my thing. < 1338169988 313760 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need different phase registers < 1338169997 301689 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different parameter registers of course < 1338170004 550280 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the processing logic is shared < 1338170063 642071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like the DSP or GPU to be able to do tiles, sprites, and video playback. 3D rendering is not important. < 1338170063 881731 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, read phase 1, read freq 1, add, write phase 1, process waveform 1, process volume 1, add to total register < 1338170077 823000 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, read phase 2, read freq 2, add, write phase 2, process waveform 2, process volume 2, add to total register < 1338170089 466692 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc, repeat for all the channels < 1338170104 73684 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take the total register and write that to the DAC < 1338170136 324416 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: I'm not sure hardware tiles are that useful :D < 1338170145 893784 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'Re easy to do tho < 1338170161 639313 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video playback is different though < 1338170198 66962 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on if you'Re fine with paletted video essentially < 1338170203 497804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It doesn't need the feature to do tiles built-in to the hardware! What I mean is, that it is capable of being programmed to do these things. < 1338170410 587595 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1338170493 912137 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the time you have a superscalar pipelined architecture and if you don't have too much pixels to fill, you can do that in software < 1338170501 779 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie pentium < 1338170560 410637 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially you need enough fillrate to fill the screen at least once per frame < 1338170656 565755 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then, aside from the transparency stuff (best SNES feature!), you can use smart code to fake any numbers of layers etc you like and limit overdraw < 1338170656 759893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For video playback it is OK if it requires the CPU and the GPU or DSP to work together < 1338170675 593555 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is paletted (256 color?) video ok? < 1338170688 666116 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it has to be some proper algo like mpeg? < 1338170697 102929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It has to be proper video such as Theora or Dirac. < 1338170732 915218 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then you need a beefy cpu < 1338170776 163306 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need hardware FFT even < 1338170815 247019 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're jumping in the hundreads of mhz range < 1338170846 554681 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means all the 2d stuff will be totally fine and you've got so much cpu that you can just software mix the audio < 1338170874 657523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. The criteria are that it is not extremely expensive and does not require proprietary software to program it < 1338170876 230996 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want high resolution on the 2d (640x480 or more?) < 1338170894 74 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you, the resolution should be enough for NTSC. < 1338170897 517509 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1338170902 329327 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 320x240 is enough < 1338170906 935246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just standard definition 4:3; no high definition is needed. < 1338170923 608567 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially you need an ARM system on a chip < 1338170946 231884 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? ARM7? ARM11? < 1338170959 675502 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1338171007 640155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than the processors, hard drive, optical drive, connectors, etc, I intend to design the rest of the hardware myself such as what is connected and in what way, as well as most of the software too. < 1338171035 914311 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does decoding theora require floating point? < 1338171039 682861 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dirac < 1338171065 741998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1338171119 854194 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need fast floating point that rules out arm11 I think < 1338171266 894336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I intend to design how the memory and that stuff is connected myself, in an attempt to prevent such things as DRM from being programmed in, as well as for other purposes too. Even if the ARM11 does not have fast floating point, whatever CPU is used if a GPU or DSP which is not tooo expensive and does not require proprietary software to use, can do some things the CPU doesn't, that might work too. < 1338171440 852618 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs tend to be proprietary < 1338171469 268764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that; but is there a DSP which would be sufficient for this purpose? < 1338171479 979134 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the raspberry pi I think you can't even write to the GPU in hardware, you have to boot in linux and use precompiled drivers < 1338171486 32212 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends < 1338171508 165151 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 3d, software rendering is reasonable at low resolutions with beefy processors < 1338171516 329847 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can live without bilinar filtering :D < 1338171570 8166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need 3D rendering; although surely someone will program it to make some (perhaps not particularly good quality) 3D rendering if they want to. < 1338171576 965975 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes SIMD stuff helps < 1338171685 622547 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338171756 171496 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah 3d hardware implementation details are jealously guarded these days as far as I can tell, a bit silly < 1338171918 330141 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338171934 540060 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24.52.224.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1338171968 513760 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 NICK :itidus21 < 1338173055 917241 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@cpe-66-108-84-125.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1338174351 481277 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PART :#esoteric < 1338174692 780467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1338175289 264756 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338177003 261046 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1338178255 397780 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1338180559 305168 :jaba!~jaba@bas4-toronto21-1176475882.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1338180644 772513 :jaba!~jaba@bas4-toronto21-1176475882.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Client Quit < 1338180672 184390 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PART :#esoteric < 1338181750 836925 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: Wychodzi < 1338183018 711852 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-250.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338183161 719157 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-157-192.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1338183294 775198 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1338183426 218436 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-250.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338183717 179807 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-120-219.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338186923 837466 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338187201 663514 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PART :#esoteric < 1338187700 659591 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :poststructuralis < 1338187722 740766 :poststructuralis!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur < 1338188548 185370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338188623 574287 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1338188853 941947 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338189586 210012 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1338189642 255022 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: People's explanations of things in #haskell irritate me these days even though I can't pinpoint exactly why. < 1338189650 804921 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just pull a kmc and leave. < 1338189700 208469 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1338189718 127179 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stand up, put on shades, make some kind of witty parting remark < 1338189725 637009 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then casually flick a lit cigarette behind you as you leave < 1338189726 789227 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like ddarius? < 1338189730 111759 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing the whole place to go up in flames < 1338189734 571848 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22 ddarius was last seen on #haskell 80 days, 5 hours, 14 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: BMeph: No. < 1338189739 29965 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did ddarius have a witty parting remark < 1338189740 380670 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@seen kmc < 1338189740 649981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1338189758 758346 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22 kmc was last seen 3 seconds ago, saying: < 1338189769 784621 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh heh < 1338189773 407826 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause i just asked it in pm ;P < 1338189778 489370 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sploisprot. < 1338189780 181025 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some boring quote from #git < 1338189781 882264 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry bro < 1338189788 81171 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brochaf < 1338189801 983659 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, bro. sbarro. < 1338189823 899052 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should've said the launch code to #haskell as you were leaving. < 1338189838 319236 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the launch code to #haskell is (repeat 0) < 1338189839 782545 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat 0 < 1338189840 415154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1338189844 819293 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to type the whole thing, though < 1338189847 675013 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last (repeat 0) < 1338189852 282382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1338189904 307627 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess lambdabot doesn't compile with -O < 1338189913 84872 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> lаst (repeat 0) < 1338189914 885390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1338190136 120668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last $ map (flip showCReal pi) [1..] < 1338190140 339018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1338190143 59275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1338190369 30151 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta sleep < 1338190372 567209 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night all < 1338190978 158570 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1338191029 750332 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1338191960 398709 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning europe! < 1338192181 205341 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit late for a morning. < 1338192217 851981 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just woke up < 1338192219 565476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose English doesn't have a word for the time between morning and noon? < 1338192228 293753 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :late morning? < 1338192229 490703 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1338192246 650658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(late) morning" is how wiktionary translates the Finnish word for it. < 1338192256 950457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Aamupäivä", lit. "morningday".) < 1338192284 543972 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no, because it's still morning. < 1338192287 159148 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got something like beforenoon - "przedpołudnie" < 1338192308 154951 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean why would you need to granularise further? < 1338192311 331789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got 'afternoon', I think they should have some sort of 'prenoon' or whatever. < 1338192317 878260 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1338192325 525982 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called 'morning'. < 1338192331 503877 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afternoon is "popołudnie" < 1338192345 746072 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning is a lot shorter than afternoon and evening together, which is why the latter are split. < 1338192368 21456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unsymmetrical is what it is. < 1338192385 910315 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but your waking hours aren't centred on noon. < 1338192432 840592 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-201-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1338192435 701205 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-173-176.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338192465 247780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waking, schmaking. < 1338192596 825827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made the local program for Internet Quiz Engine. Currently it can only be used with local files and does not support uploading or downloading, although I might add those things later on. < 1338192675 240590 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338192676 800535 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1338192689 224402 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.olleH < 1338192746 958330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is written in Haskell but calls the C program, so you need the compiled C program as well. < 1338193369 704427 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-173-176.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1338193404 427180 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-165-245.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338194195 192179 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1338194460 698593 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338195099 435800 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1338195681 951038 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FINAL COUNTDOWN WAS MADE BY SWEDES????????????? < 1338195683 975167 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH < 1338195729 196330 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1338195739 353009 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate swedes < 1338195740 654163 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much < 1338195750 965135 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except olsner but he was adopted < 1338196171 837963 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden beat Lithuania in the Eurovision :/ < 1338196177 470097 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I likes Lithuania's entry < 1338196260 16638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden beat everyone. < 1338196269 657339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By quite a margin, too. < 1338196338 890464 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I watched it < 1338196361 549950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I "watched" it. By which I mean tried desperately not to fall asleep. < 1338196368 974274 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed a bit of Croatia's and Iceland's, and the second half was talked over by more people than the weird guy who talks over it on the TV < 1338196454 711780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway managed to lose the most. Well, from those that made it to the finals, anyway. < 1338196471 92407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland was #12 in the first semifinal, they say. So it wasn't *that* far. < 1338196733 274239 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1338196761 540797 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1338196825 257989 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did Englelbrert Humperdinck come? < 1338196869 512822 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second last < 1338196884 15575 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1338196917 960680 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The votes were annoyingly unpolitical in that Malta didn't vote for us < 1338197262 122381 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1338197464 264693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did get some points from Ireland, though. < 1338197473 690950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humperdick, sorry, -dinck got 5 from Estonia, 4 from Ireland, 2 from Latvia and 1 from Belgium. < 1338197572 763026 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338197581 364965 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1338197608 48267 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net TOPIC #esoteric :It is 2012 and there is time to be the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment. http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1338197614 978790 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME Fishspill < 1338197624 50102 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FISHSPILL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1338197642 890443 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net TOPIC #esoteric :It is 2005 and there is time to be the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment. http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1338197666 934801 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hello there. < 1338197682 926597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the loudest welcome. < 1338197721 143353 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, the uppercased URL (still?) no work. < 1338197727 477553 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow FISHSPILL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1338197728 440736 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2F3I4S5H6S7P8I9L2L3:4 5W6E7L8C9O2M3E4 5T6O7 8T9H2E3 4I5N6T7E8R9N2A3T4I5O6N7A8L9 2H3U4B5 6F7O8R9 2E3S4O5T6E7R8I9C2 3P4R5O6G7R8A9M2M3I4N5G6 ... < 1338197783 710648 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, what a welcome. With it being 2005 and all. < 1338197784 557548 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1338197862 602195 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow THE YEAR OF LINUS TORVALDS ON THE DESKTOP < 1338197862 833461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The output length limit of that is somewhat sad; it only goes up to, well, not very many letters. < 1338197863 599026 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2T3H4E5 6Y7E8A9R2 3O4F5 6L7I8N9U2S3 4T5O6R7V8A9L2D3S4 5O6N7 8T9H2E3 4D5E6S7K8T9O2P < 1338197869 380589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[>,]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!0123456789 < 1338197870 315786 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456 ... < 1338197895 199413 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, dude, that's a fancy extension there. < 1338197900 903954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :200ish or so. < 1338197901 726796 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it just specify stdin? < 1338197924 716485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is where the , comes from. < 1338197938 154656 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I mean. < 1338197976 581862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you "^def foo bf bar", then "^foo baz" will be equivalent to "^bf bar!baz"; I think it might even be implemented like that. < 1338198030 706646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps not, since what's stored in the state file is the parsed and bytecode-compiled version. Anyway. < 1338198376 132427 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DD28.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338198466 138499 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338198555 566186 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1338199988 653498 :Fishspill!~Fishspill@pool-74-106-45-34.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1338200801 725920 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338200836 963605 :rszeno!~rszeno@79.114.98.111 PART :#esoteric < 1338201502 596034 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1338202225 201617 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1338202996 863450 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DD28.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1338204960 10661 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-224-124.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338205105 440471 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-165-245.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1338205157 853087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1338205186 452372 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-243-172.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338205244 27375 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-224-124.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1338205860 243575 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-243-172.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1338205866 430519 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-246-13.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338206866 11878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm listening to a talk titled "Semitheoretical Computer Science - what has changed in 30 years". < 1338206919 141244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds slightly like the Diet Coke edition of computer science. < 1338207322 894982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd taste awful < 1338207453 478327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sugar! < 1338207722 308226 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-198.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338207723 436127 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-224.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338208975 107222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a somewhat rambling presntation. < 1338209566 471035 :PatashuXantheres!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1338210264 206098 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah should I make a github account < 1338210268 270708 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with probably not < 1338210688 905690 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what has changed in 30 years? < 1338211764 701708 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1338212203 532078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh, apparently we've become responsible. < 1338212211 787546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what he said, anyway. < 1338212228 824892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We" being computer scientists. < 1338212276 929675 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you werent responsible 30 years ago? < 1338212615 607231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338212704 343254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. < 1338212714 79221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Respectable, I was going to say. < 1338212720 201187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or supposed to say. < 1338212739 588331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm technically presenting a poster here. < 1338212769 441097 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :techically? < 1338212773 649607 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338212807 488842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm just IRCing at the moment, am I not? < 1338212839 32558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make a quick walkaround. < 1338213103 348569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1338213603 97471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is "print to PDF" in a PDF reader a plausible way to extract individual pages from a PDF file? < 1338213937 155555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1338213937 693890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1338213941 360732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1338214243 436656 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott < 1338214446 564224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pdftk is one quite plausible way. But purely practically speaking that might also be. < 1338214809 575164 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1338214852 987876 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338215182 787671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:55:58: I've come to see Arduinos as a representation of the new hipster electronics generation < 1338215191 275806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone remember when "hipster" actually meant something (even if it was a stupid meaning) < 1338215254 73146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24:00: Are there good alternatives if I want to write proprietary programs in Eiffel? < 1338215258 447517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't want to know the background to this < 1338215281 249968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a bizarre sudden fascination with Eiffel < 1338215289 73527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you hate me < 1338215379 640286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you pause irc for five hours please < 1338215409 503098 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why < 1338215421 704569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to watch monqy win a 0-rune mummystabbing spst of chei < 1338215428 280579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the recording is 5 hours < 1338215484 608308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 0-rune? < 1338215536 215357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: runes used to be real items < 1338215538 256419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just drop them < 1338215541 593565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and win with less than 3 runes < 1338215546 318027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1338215549 974643 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bizarre Let's Play Roguelikes fetish you've developed recently is weirding me out. < 1338215550 241993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dtsund pulled in the patch to goldify them < 1338215555 643509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that won't work as soon as the server is updated < 1338215560 313428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was a race to win a 0-runer before that happened < 1338215565 819994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: totally < 1338215572 589674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i just started playing crawl because monqy told me to < 1338215581 829747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i ended up writing a huge patch to light, oops < 1338215591 459861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i can't go back or i'll realise how much of my life i'm wasting < 1338215606 764570 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods sagely.
< 1338215672 700270 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't find a torrent for the latest episode of Game of Thrones, I am very worried. < 1338215703 458273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway I've always liked roguelikes, I've just been too lazy to actually play them. < 1338215713 69802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't ignore monqy's demands. < 1338215730 394623 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you give up on Nethack after you lost a save because of its anti-scumming measures. < 1338215752 248428 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My exact phrasing, "Let's Play Roguelikes" wasn't an accident, the weird part is recording yourselves and passing around recordings X-D < 1338215757 699170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I was just annoyed with it for a day or two. < 1338215761 895189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The servers automatically record them. < 1338215778 723194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And there's scripts to play amusing deaths/etc. on a termcast TV thing. < 1338215800 34175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also you can spectate live. I don't actually download and watch entire games unless they're monqy doing ridiculous things, that would be weird :P < 1338215818 145644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a mummystabbing SpSt of chei is definitely stupid enough to watch 5 hours of. < 1338215821 64612 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmm < 1338215858 940035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At least I don't watch and pass around recordings of My Little Pony! < 1338215860 885426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1338215877 10066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OR DO I????) < 1338215878 404662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No.) < 1338215886 82613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I watch it live, obviously. (I don't actually.)) < 1338215888 31832 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION huffs.
< 1338215903 397784 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEN. *goes back to writing erotic #esoteric fanfics* < 1338215909 684555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1338215961 503177 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we see a sample of that. < 1338215978 487826 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais has left because he's too much of a prude.) < 1338216012 576418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1338216015 224527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've already seen enough. < 1338216017 575422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time it involved me. < 1338216025 174257 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget who else it involved. < 1338216027 466638 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy? < 1338216041 87346 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is not comfortable with his BURNING PASSIONS < 1338216046 89560 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1338216155 955796 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott and asiekierka! < 1338216160 167749 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonowait, it was oklopol. < 1338216160 362169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338216163 720185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1338216167 123967 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1338216175 404225 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it involve a bath of sprite and/or coke < 1338216176 473646 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you even have a life to waste? < 1338216182 894982 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude < 1338216187 336274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. But I'm doing my darndest anyway. < 1338216195 947991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude < 1338216202 490509 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :846) `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude < 1338216208 710156 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1338216217 6627 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1338216224 155909 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I misremembered the quote to boot. < 1338216240 169144 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log klopol.*nude < 1338216255 258932 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-05-28.txt:14:43:02: `log [o]klopol wasn't usually nude < 1338216258 391761 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1338216264 750651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log klopol.*naked < 1338216270 898228 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-29.txt:10:50:16: i don't like carrying stuff in my pockets either so really i'd just prefer being naked and carrying whatever i need in my hands < 1338216274 980557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: `pastlog. < 1338216285 827808 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-05-09.txt:23:34:50: He sat, nonchalantly, one finger running unthinkingly but tantalizingly up and down his strong, toned thigh. It wasn't unusual for oklopol to be here, waiting for elliott's arrival, but something was different today. oklopol was not typically nude. < 1338216305 69419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure oklopol is, in fact, typically nude. < 1338216325 643873 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oklopol Usually nude confirm/deny < 1338216325 972526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1338216352 791196 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, deserves a Bulwer-Lytton. < 1338216362 366805 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it is too shit for the Lyttle Lytton though. < 1338216644 964531 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1338218666 349328 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should zzo38's deadfish implementation for dc work? < 1338218825 516414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, the satisfaction of seeing a stupid answer self-deleted. < 1338219003 840629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :always a great supervisor meeting when you get to define 2 < 1338219020 865801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my supervisor wasn't convinced that I+I was always equal to 2*I < 1338219032 443732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I pointed out that it was correct with the only reasonable definition of 2, even if the things you were dealing with weren't integers < 1338219046 216352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1338219138 317576 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should've proven it from the ring axioms. < 1338219143 692776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did < 1338219150 544692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we're dealing with semirings, not rings < 1338219156 937318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the same axioms still apply < 1338219239 317930 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1338219307 740272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried that your supervisor thought that a+a might not be 2*a without even giving a definition of 2. < 1338219401 670421 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-94.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338219410 368697 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-198.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338219418 97868 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338219487 143343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1338219512 687633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1338219514 699201 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1338219526 939854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, my commands were interpreted out of order < 1338219552 522111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent the /ns ghost before the /nick, but the /nick errored out before the ghost worked < 1338219620 244168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! another problem i can blame on imperative style! < 1338219845 617291 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would non-imperative style do < 1338219859 685290 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional style IRC? < 1338219867 641377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not have that problem < 1338219889 39482 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right? (you kidding)) < 1338219917 897575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not kidding, but "functional" is incorrect < 1338219952 584901 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :alliot < 1338219957 361775 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliotian < 1338220010 851536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1338220237 396917 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-246-13.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1338220256 532600 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-246-13.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1338220601 848875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw: define 2 as 1+1, now I+I = (I*1)+(I*1) = I*(1+1) = I*2 = 2*I) < 1338221364 495217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1338221484 836769 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it was made by europe < 1338222176 632917 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338222363 899562 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338222375 869287 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1338222504 419982 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-37-49-5-105.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1338222512 683763 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-37-49-5-105.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Changing host < 1338222512 878596 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338222578 940071 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1338222619 657376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo < 1338223064 905811 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338225748 354547 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye < 1338225749 706508 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-182.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1338225762 628122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :godby < 1338225825 59788 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanebye < 1338226005 936252 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you see my pun about the final countdown? < 1338226011 381365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1338226019 440281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i saw the pun < 1338226022 442961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not what it was in reply to < 1338226039 939985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :" THE FINAL COUNTDOWN WAS MADE BY SWEDES?????????????" < 1338226362 609604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338226626 700918 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-149-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338226640 356758 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-94.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1338227606 921633 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1338227648 4412 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.224.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1338227812 772504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1338228099 601536 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-106.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1338228989 232158 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :source materials.gcf/hl2/materials/matsys_regressiontest/background.vtf http://i.imgur.com/HwK3D.png < 1338229023 582898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cat < 1338229178 422265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338229247 137013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1338229247 406244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1338229257 955571 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1338230164 347712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL: Scottish nationalists object to the term "Queen Elizabeth II" as it implies that there was a Queen Elizabeth I < 1338230171 746311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them < 1338230434 535562 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-106.elisa.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1338230856 887070 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you hate "miss" that much? < 1338231060 14913 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what does your deadfish implememtstion in dc require from dc imppementation? I couldn't get it to work with my dc < 1338231216 675432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is GNU dc < 1338231243 819929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe it could be modified to work with another one < 1338231312 169988 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... I use V7 dc < 1338231327 94031 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*6 < 1338231767 519653 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To exit, use `q' . C-c does not exit; it is used to abort macros that are looping, etc. (Currently this is not true; C-c does exit.)" GNU dc manual page < 1338231915 483432 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looks like Minecraft's development is going ahead full-steam now Jeb and the Bukkit team are working on it. < 1338231922 125790 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost wish I hadn't tired of it. < 1338231932 630372 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, s/almost// < 1338232284 919941 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there library for gopher and HTTP POST in Haskell? (People in #haskell channel answered the second part) < 1338232317 261219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: s/I /I / < 1338232375 742131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if there isn't, you could write one < 1338232390 816253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? I tried, but it doesn't work. < 1338232406 94226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: same way as you write a library in any other language < 1338232455 566782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he tried, but it doesn't work < 1338232480 971436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written libraries in Haskell before, but I cannot get it to work with gopher < 1338232973 376237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The survey tested respondents’ knowledge of cookies, asking them to confirm if a number of statements about cookies were correct or not. Ou tof the sixteen statements only one was answered correctly by th emajority of respondents." < 1338233039 280771 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? "The cookie monster eats cookies"? < 1338233045 603160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't say < 1338233054 306393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hoping it'll say later, this is a 31-page document < 1338233063 535878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how to comply with the new UK laws about cookies < 1338233087 356920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this reminds me, your login screen should probably contain a note that logging in will set a cookie to record the fact that you're logged in < 1338233104 726308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do anons get cookies set too? < 1338233104 921203 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it? < 1338233109 604970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: new UK laws about cookies < 1338233109 875052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wait for mediawiki to implement that < 1338233113 281882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt the law will stand < 1338233118 571303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the wiki hosted in the UK though? < 1338233122 476597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1338233123 735136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1338233126 493961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter, though < 1338233129 568359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in the uk < 1338233133 6285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm probably liable anyway < 1338233163 384783 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sweden has the same silly cookies law < 1338233178 307446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole of the EU does, it's an EU-wide law that's being implemented by the individual member companies < 1338233204 490389 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1338233213 647060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't personally find it silly, partly because I have all cookies on manual approval atm (apart from a few websites I use a lot and are set to always-approve, and some that use so many I had to set them to always-disaprove because I was bored of clicking through notifications) < 1338233223 513459 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-120-219.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1338233227 175147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that reduces the number of approvals I need would be nice < 1338233237 993291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:25] i just installed kde < 1338233239 387760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:25] what the FUCK < 1338233240 988955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be fun :) < 1338233241 887805 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the decision to accept cookies or not has always been on the client side anyway < 1338233255 454760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but browsers accept them by default < 1338233279 668755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EU have been campaigning against anticompetitive or privacy-breaking defaults < 1338233281 30944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that isn't the government's job to fix < 1338233322 340980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be good for them to campaign against anticompetitive or privacy-breaking defaults, but still, that doesn't mean they have to fix it by making a law against it < 1338233323 825176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think you'll find it is the job to fix anticompetitive and privacy-breaking behaviour by corporations. < 1338233329 514554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*job of the government < 1338233337 318900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been suggested that the fact that a visitor has arrived at a webpag eshould be sufficient evidence that they consent to cookies being set o rinformation being accessed on their device. The key here is that the visito rshould understand that this is the case. It is important to note that it would b eextremely difficult to demonstrate compliance simply by showing that a use rvisited a particular site or was served a particular advertisement < 1338233338 822299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it coul dalso be demonstrated that they were aware this would result in cookies bein gset. < 1338233339 16711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, regulating corporations is pretty much the definition of the convernment's job in a capitalist society. < 1338233344 697420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*government's < 1338233351 24458 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, the government should tell the people who install those browsers by default to fix it < 1338233361 963529 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they are the ones needed fixing < 1338233363 294317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The government tells people to do things by passing laws. < 1338233389 175702 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-120-219.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338233401 484269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't the job of the server to change the settings on the client < 1338233432 282487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I approve of the anti-cookie law partly because the same reasoning's being used on EULAs < 1338233440 342386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that people just click through EULAs without reading them, thus they have no legal force) < 1338233517 524079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, the government should tell the people who sell computers to change those settings < 1338233543 370415 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they refuse they have to put a warning label on the box < 1338233546 857742 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-151-80.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1338233558 538085 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-149-71.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1338233587 758355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full ack. < 1338233608 454191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're /probably/ OK if it's just session cookies, not analytics < 1338233618 658722 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the browser manufacturers job. < 1338233638 938014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I break the law pretty frequently anyway < 1338233652 71354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well, it's not like browser managers can make all cookies prompt-by-default reasonably < 1338233659 433602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch, seriously? < 1338233665 335257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1338233666 277936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty rare for me to intentionally break it < 1338233668 709229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1338233674 474575 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True. < 1338233682 333352 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I think no browser vendor wants to be the first with the "confusing popup with lots of confusing settings" box that will have to pop up for every page load < 1338233685 325241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it'd just make everyone use outlaw browsers :P < 1338233687 48425 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it also the governments job, sadly. < 1338233698 213569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: more importantly, very few browsers are UK-based < 1338233705 388887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is responsible for the safety of its citizens. < 1338233717 219755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't object to the privay-based intent < 1338233721 307126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the execution is a little problematic < 1338233723 817087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too technological < 1338233754 281855 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should not be the browser manufacturer's job; it is the computer manufacturer's job to change the settings before selling the computer, or including a warning label on the computer. < 1338233771 545000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that would accomplish precisely nothing < 1338233774 227267 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning labels are useless. < 1338233784 840738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone would just ignore the label, or download a browser as soon as they get it < 1338233818 584479 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers are in a very good position to make demands actually. < 1338233824 191542 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Websites have to work with browsers. < 1338233846 636471 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do also the other way, but that must not be. < 1338233879 732813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's already the browserchoice thing, which requires the default browser on Windows to be a menu presenting the five most popular Windows browsers in random order and asking the user to choose one < 1338233897 184945 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the websites have to work with IE6 and the other browsers have to work with those websites :) < 1338233899 622195 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like firefox or opera? < 1338233905 676640 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They both suck at security. < 1338233925 939823 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera is best for security!!1 < 1338233928 871027 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what is secure briwser then? < 1338233940 887091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well, browsers are not really in a good position to make demands < 1338233941 727396 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that allows nothing per default. < 1338233947 844065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make a demand that inconveniences users < 1338233951 637164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the users will use another browser < 1338233952 311926 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And requires the user to load whitelists. < 1338233979 722131 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are configfiles. < 1338233997 103661 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which say when browsing on what page, what the browser is allowed to do. < 1338234045 473311 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes that way would work. < 1338234214 216917 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/sfsarUbh < 1338234218 700194 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- I want something like that. < 1338234240 98596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tab isolation. < 1338234244 85219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPLETE tab isolation. < 1338234260 327761 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because I'm logged in on somesite doesn't mean that I should be logged in in any other tab. < 1338234281 696402 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I want that, I would somehow tell my browser that (through such a configuration file) < 1338234290 163043 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use opera mini then, keep all your tabs on iceland :> < 1338234310 13335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like things like that too; be able to configure settings for each domain or even separate for subdomains whether inherit or not, and path and filenames too. < 1338234338 137526 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: complete tab isolation=each tab runs on its own machine? < 1338234352 465144 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: Each tab has its own "browser context" < 1338234365 912531 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like its a different browser < 1338234372 219492 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the UK government should sell computers that do not have any web browser program < 1338234372 414316 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means < 1338234377 468045 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no cookie sharing between tabs < 1338234380 853461 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatsoever. < 1338234416 982961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I do agree it would be a good idea that you can have multiple sessions without cookie sharing. < 1338234435 820861 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want browsers to only work with such configuration files < 1338234445 163209 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which deny almost everything by default. < 1338234473 282188 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And siteowners may provide such a file < 1338234485 857391 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like robots.txt or some mechanism like that) < 1338234507 297496 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user then can view it, accept and adjust it. < 1338234529 486357 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just say "for the best experience, please enable all features", and obviously most sites will be made so that nothing works unless you do exactly that < 1338234552 693488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1338234562 36238 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1338234571 279228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What they should do is discourage HTTP and HTML < 1338234580 729158 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user accepted it. < 1338234595 39325 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1338234602 753472 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it will make your system suck (as in, give extra useless prompts) for everyone except the paranoid, and 99.99% of users are not paranoid < 1338234609 451702 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he had the chance to tell the browser EXACTLY what to do. < 1338234642 569194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"this is stupid" < 1338234648 323450 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1338234661 645111 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know your town < 1338234662 729024 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PART #esoteric :"nooo come back" < 1338234667 632579 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you're not paranoid < 1338234677 924521 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are certain areas or streets you avoid. < 1338234680 755257 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a good reason. < 1338234689 675475 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not adopt that behaviour to the internet. < 1338234709 265524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they'll just say "for the best experience, please enable all features", and obviously most sites will be made so that nothing works unless you do exactly that <-- I have now found /two/ sites that cover the entire screen with a