< 1337818042 200142 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1337818153 113977 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337818240 231542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did i miss anything < 1337818328 958748 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1337818339 590971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1337818340 655805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- me < 1337818348 192365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :–—–—–—– < 1337818545 239409 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1337818973 675604 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/GAW7C.jpg < 1337819041 160291 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@125.34.214.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337819041 178357 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@125.34.214.176 QUIT :Changing host < 1337819041 178430 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1337819048 731036 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1337819196 582515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh --kmc < 1337819270 538368 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hem ++kmc < 1337819282 976231 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc += kmc-- < 1337819297 76417 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc -= kmc++ < 1337819629 389615 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337819850 336422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337820096 502204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1337820104 743243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1337820115 877104 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337820150 161473 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337820167 568309 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi elliott < 1337820326 854032 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1337820541 213601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: witness dog < 1337820548 531245 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1337820551 835672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: witness dog < 1337820559 279968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1337820561 421937 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you tired < 1337820564 300950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficultly < 1337820567 369147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1337820576 928870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that tired < 1337821323 629519 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<< < 1337821426 910910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1337821582 985956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1337822125 358177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: perhaps < 1337822201 39995 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1337823333 374847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: guess what's about to get squarelos < 1337823406 326654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaey < 1337823437 510074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i suggest you play some AKs afterwards because I'm pretty sure I ~op'd~ corrupt < 1337823440 196687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also tornado < 1337823443 602762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :play a tornadoing AK < 1337823465 155256 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be more op than what tornado used to be < 1337823474 763262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it use to be < 1337823495 556422 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :level 8, near full los, no timeout, long duration, huge ac-ignoring damage per turn < 1337823530 281564 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it did more damage if you were hasted < 1337823537 2094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1337823538 125522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1337823540 566173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did anyone design that < 1337823552 243478 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it was fixed before the release < 1337823558 916546 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the rest of it was fixed later < 1337823686 344444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im "tell elliptic" < 1337823691 169886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eagerly awaiting shaming" < 1337823768 59365 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :megashamed < 1337823810 525123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel the shame < 1337824142 417802 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337824146 171797 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337824369 251137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im actualyl dying of the sham. < 1337824381 32100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? an elliott (inner sham) < 1337824515 730500 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1337825363 870097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It bothers me how we refer to a line of sight as having a shape. < 1337825371 430541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there better Crawl terminology for that? < 1337825377 460885 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1337825411 986807 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-146-198.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337825426 634479 :pikhq!~pikhq@168-103-254-156.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1337825435 128916 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thanks crawl" < 1337825438 831751 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail the circlelos < 1337825463 991042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the idea that line of site is not directional? < 1337825487 234131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the idea is that computer-game worlds have weird topology < 1337825495 728152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus it's awkward to define what exactly a circle should be < 1337825516 542159 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: :( < 1337825525 923261 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes self concious of using the words "the idea"
< 1337825528 661944 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, a square makes the most sense when diagonal motion is possible. circles are just prettier < 1337825543 113312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :circles are not prettier !!! < 1337825558 298683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could just use an asterisk shape < 1337825564 57580 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sez you < 1337825564 748639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: have you seen approximated circles < 1337825569 18018 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1337825569 79874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Crawl < 1337825572 425281 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because whoever makes these decisions is probably a male :P < 1337825572 462666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1337825574 380521 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are awesome < 1337825575 334405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter what's pretty < 1337825577 609543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it messes with gameplay < 1337825578 355568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :severely < 1337825591 260785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ask any experienced player, if you don't believe me) < 1337825600 241561 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next on the "stupid quasieuclidean things messing with gameplay" list: targeting < 1337825603 603772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like "it's better to approach diagonally or horizontally because the enemy will see you less" < 1337825610 757221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know how to fix it ! < 1337825616 886251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "Make the line-of-sight square" "Make line-of-sight square" < 1337825619 680542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of these is more correct :( < 1337825628 818494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"squarelos" < 1337825639 139344 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yahoo is nearly as bad as that worlds video < 1337825647 751148 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :demonpoweredinternet left the room < 1337825653 888725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timemachinemessiah left the room < 1337825662 87497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also next on that list: light bending around walls funny < 1337825673 538866 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thejock_of_torment left the room < 1337825674 747527 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh well ," < 1337825691 111853 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :***********s_smell_worse_than_my_shit left the room < 1337825703 505337 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*********** ? < 1337825712 461284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not important what that is < 1337825722 744924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a word worse than shit :o < 1337825726 560260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does such a word exist :o < 1337825730 30259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me what it is :o < 1337825771 589693 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to make true euclidean geometry works is to make diagonal moves take sqrt(2) times the amount of time orthogonal moves take (aka, 1 turn will not always be 1 time step) < 1337825771 720858 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever a mystery < 1337825780 830279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally < 1337825782 987966 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that wouldn't work < 1337825796 706115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "The log entries for the commits used follow:" or "The log entries for the commits used follows:" < 1337825798 573369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct :( < 1337825801 202663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1337825805 173380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give a serious answer to my first question < 1337825807 636352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one of the options I gave < 1337825814 887731 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why wouldnt it work < 1337825816 893942 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no because i don't have an opinion on it < 1337825822 53687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :( < 1337825824 176961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i need an opinion < 1337825844 139300 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "follow" is correct < 1337825856 683631 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: since everything's all discretized you still don't get single minimal paths < 1337825868 569403 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that throws a wrench into calling it actually euclidean, no ? < 1337825872 335726 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the units of space called in crawl? :D < 1337825879 204941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the so called tiles or squares or cells < 1337825880 425724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: squares, tiles, you name it ! < 1337825883 836663 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1337825892 551114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log entries for the commits used follow (in chronological order): < 1337825898 269359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a less awkward way to write this < 1337825899 263580 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its true euclidean where you're not allowed to move in z straight line. :P < 1337825900 474946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. avoiding the parenthical < 1337825906 740841 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetragons! < 1337825918 126508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hardly true euclidean ! < 1337825947 215594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log entries for the commits used follow in chronological order < 1337825950 42327 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the space is euclidean, you just can't take advantage of the fact! < 1337825957 704348 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: im weeping < 1337825958 440664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: pls ^ < 1337825983 323233 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the fact that i knew what they were shows that math has really let this area of naming down < 1337825984 510642 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with monqy. just drop the parens < 1337825991 325124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didn't notice monqy < 1337825992 849564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry monqy < 1337825994 70097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks monqy < 1337826006 588755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems kinda weird with the parenthical though < 1337826011 783323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's obvious it's in chronological order! < 1337826023 31904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1337826025 279939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine how confusing a roguelike would be if diagonals were root-2 slower than orthogonals < 1337826026 47545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git logs usually aren't < 1337826026 842700 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its obvious dont say it at all < 1337826027 180550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1337826035 881330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's not that obvious because it's in a git log view < 1337826045 301515 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then say it :P < 1337826062 22217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I particularly like the arguments that it's more intuitive that way < 1337826075 908807 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one approach would be to overlay a real disc on top of the squares and make a rule about how much % of the square has to be covered before it is part of the disc < 1337826078 736508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (chronologically-ordered) log entries for the non-merge commits < 1337826078 754812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unique to that branch follow: < 1337826080 451286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this better < 1337826080 724530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what, root2los? < 1337826089 783330 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly. now add the ability to move between two points alonga straight euclidean line (without doing any actions along the way) < 1337826092 209512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: root2 diagonal movement < 1337826106 9378 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337826122 441563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: haha, that's not intuitive at all < 1337826141 622069 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm misremembering, not everyone agrees! < 1337826153 60313 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha ha) < 1337826174 844959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523 < 1337826177 866887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make the line-of-sight square." < 1337826182 329250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make this commit message not a contradiction in terms < 1337826201 750710 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make the viewable region square" < 1337826211 366443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can view beyond that < 1337826214 390889 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implement squarelos" "Import new_squarelos" < 1337826216 433799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, when you say "A record of X follows:" or similar, do you use a colon, or a full stop?) < 1337826228 812287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where squarelos and new_squarelos are technical terms < 1337826231 950846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I mention new_squarelos in the commit message, but it is simply too powerful a word to put in the summary line! < 1337826247 614486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliptic used "Square LOS." but that's not even a sentence! < 1337826258 948055 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how can you view beyons that? i thought it was all fog-of-war beyond? < 1337826266 667680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can remember what you saw < 1337826276 211247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, LOS affects things like targetting too < 1337826278 574907 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remembering is not seeing < 1337826279 924379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not just visibility < 1337826284 970879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it is viewing < 1337826293 991914 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1337826298 881838 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "visible region" < 1337826306 320404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where visible=seeable < 1337826322 991325 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "hole in the fog-of-war" :P < 1337826368 337805 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"targetable region"? < 1337826376 421283 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"active region"? < 1337826377 468804 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337826379 956951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"field of view" < 1337826389 404869 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1337826436 201653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw just to check < 1337826454 390297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you stand directly north-west of a single-square wall with circlelos < 1337826477 779093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: aha, that one has official precedent < 1337826478 709819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./hints.cc: "accidentally entering into its field of view when using " < 1337826480 881204 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same thing that happens when you stand directly north-west of a single-square wall in squarelos, no? < 1337826509 469701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ostr << "You can easily mark its square as dangerous to avoid " < 1337826509 487981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "accidentally entering into its field of view when using " < 1337826509 488143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "auto-explore or auto-travel. To do so, enter targeting " < 1337826513 700080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: right, just checking < 1337826540 417238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you walk slightly away from that wall? you still get a few dots south-east of you invisible but everything around them visible, right? < 1337826545 670499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just checking that I haven't introduced any nastiness < 1337826552 670394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's damn ugly in tiles) < 1337826556 529259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course everything is but) < 1337826608 969707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiles? < 1337826615 369266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tested in tiles because i had to < 1337826620 597765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just confirm :'( < 1337826695 663342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the field of view square. < 1337826698 689648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an acceptable commit message < 1337826702 674033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels weird not mentioning los < 1337826754 562391 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1337826767 520375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're worrying too much about your commit messsag < 1337826768 13071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help :( < 1337826821 540476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help :( < 1337826822 669225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im wory < 1337826824 590525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commit message can < 1337826824 961238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1337826825 917419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be changed < 1337826830 277419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must get it right the first time!!! < 1337826840 399960 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolls eyes < 1337826850 660824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you github for making me stare at "Hardcore Forking Action" once again to get this done < 1337826850 722865 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone might download it on the basis of the commit message < 1337826854 429190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help! < 1337826864 663377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is hardcore forking action < 1337826929 478804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore Forking Action < 1337826929 499757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're forking a repository just for you. It should only take a few seconds. Refresh at will < 1337826935 855100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the awful message github displays when you fork a repository < 1337826946 225547 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make the field of view square (squarelos, bitches!) < 1337826948 32080 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1337826951 575553 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks githube < 1337826961 124109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no if i wrote that i'd have to kill myself and burn my corpse < 1337826977 569990 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which god < 1337826979 940718 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337826987 326714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1337826999 973230 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which god are you sac'ing your corpse to < 1337827032 526987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they dont burn they just disappear in flames < 1337827036 70873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just burning it < 1337827037 58457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for myself < 1337827040 413001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait new person < 1337827041 906565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome BlueProtoman < 1337827045 742494 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1337827054 265564 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been here before. < 1337827063 344903 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome anyway < 1337827069 401713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1337827070 140209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1337827072 923139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for the second-level welcome < 1337827073 207952 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:[ < 1337827073 461089 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendly is not just for newcomers < 1337827076 109761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME BLUEPROTOMAN < 1337827079 301356 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLUEPROTOMAN: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1337827081 345712 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, thanks. < 1337827087 872396 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wElCoMe < 1337827090 868231 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found < 1337827091 561814 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wElCoMe test < 1337827095 490764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so welcome that we forgot you were here < 1337827095 562438 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaargh < 1337827095 802535 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found < 1337827104 73484 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so nice. < 1337827130 813785 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that's the nicest I've ever seen anyone on IRC. Won't lie. < 1337827146 703481 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicest welcome wagon, rather. Hell, this is the only welcome wagon I've seen. < 1337827154 276231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to think of how to be amusingly horrible in response that doesn't cross the line into being actually horrible < 1337827158 295637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give up < 1337827160 697351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win, friendliness < 1337827167 778237 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In bed. < 1337827191 815320 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... < 1337827210 707600 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1337827211 103239 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. I'm trying to do a Brainfuck interpreter in C++. I can successfully check to see whether the braces [] are valid, and I record their positions in a vector, too. Problem is, now I'm not sure how to use this vector to skip the instruction pointer past a ] if the value at the current cell is 0. < 1337827242 945160 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your data structure < 1337827249 857183 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a dictionary? < 1337827259 965084 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of pairs? < 1337827267 438039 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a stack to see whether the braces are valid or not. < 1337827297 305667 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I supposed I could somehow use a stack of a pair... < 1337827349 950406 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, you can even just do a linear search for the matching brace every time you must jump between them :P < 1337827361 185168 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i suppose you want efficiency < 1337827369 204094 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how I check for brace validity. I just create a stack that records the position of each brace, opening or closing. If the stack underflows or ends up not empty at the end of the check, we don't run the program. < 1337827371 870225 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I do. < 1337827394 427167 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to remove non-BF characters with a regex, but this is more important. < 1337827433 82963 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1337827434 600266 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1337827449 186994 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run < 1337827452 114327 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1337827456 512862 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :one easy thing to do is replace the braces with the location of the other brace in your actual program represtation < 1337827459 34161 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1337827461 745117 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1337827481 545234 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What do you mean? < 1337827486 418176 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your have a list of +-><., or number < 1337827491 948702 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1337827498 576793 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its a number, check the sign < 1337827510 122806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ means opening brace, negative means closing brace < 1337827521 23461 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, then we have ambiguities with -'s. < 1337827541 599855 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do brace operation, jump to magnitude of number when necessary < 1337827543 872585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1337827554 468963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a list now not a string remember < 1337827562 84916 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, right. < 1337827610 694667 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you do the replacement of braces with numbers when your validator pops the bracepair < 1337827619 383348 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy peasy < 1337827692 819796 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possible limitation: program length will be limited to max_int of the data type you use for numbers < 1337827694 31207 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-122-226.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337827705 810948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is long enough for all real programs) < 1337827784 260385 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't I need the ability to reference entries by index? Lists don't provide that. < 1337827809 643932 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want to generalize this to other Brainfuck derivatives, some of which use numbers. < 1337827880 928375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could actually parse to an actually AST and then everything will be fine & dandy ,right? < 1337827961 375466 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, array. i meant list in the abstract, not a particular implementation < 1337827993 928311 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK. Vector it is. < 1337828001 366543 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wait! < 1337828003 743705 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you want to parse shit like bfjoust, why not parse to an AST < 1337828008 731043 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are those? < 1337828056 725927 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a harder but more general technique < 1337828073 808308 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-122-99.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337828076 266792 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337828109 927440 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are ASTs? < 1337828119 77361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract syntax tree < 1337828123 447654 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another system: keep a dictionary of left/right braces. when you come to a left brace, index to dictionary key. when you come to a right brace, index it by value. < 1337828126 268369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's less scary than it sounds < 1337828134 156545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just make data types to represent each type of syntax in the language < 1337828252 675958 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: French to me. I'm gonna do compilers in college, but right now... < 1337828282 333632 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Oooh, that works, too. Thanks for the tip! < 1337828305 655281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: Here's my preferred scheme for bracket-matching: < 1337828324 372274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman: You have an array, indexed by source position. < 1337828330 717243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In array[position_of_left_brace], you store position_of_right_brace. < 1337828339 81884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In array[position_of_right_brace], you store position_of_left_brace. < 1337828341 438174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then jumping is really easy. < 1337828348 547048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: an associative map (like std::map) is better than an array here. < 1337828389 54012 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an unordered_map, maybe? Those have quicker lookup times, I think. < 1337828439 489899 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that basically sounds like what i said above, but with twice as many pairs < 1337828443 557977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, whatever. I don't do implementation details :) < 1337828443 595556 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it works too < 1337828453 84882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yours is more complicated :p < 1337828453 986501 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice as many pairs? < 1337828478 459635 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the things i do for memory efficiency :P < 1337828483 513513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I don't like Light folks' anti-nerfing sentiment. :( < 1337828505 218099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: come to monqys-crawl !!! in the future < 1337828539 261316 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the far far far....far < 1337828543 543935 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :....nonexitent future < 1337828945 582829 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distant future, the year 2000 > 1337829284 260815 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337829284 559234 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1337829284 561880 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric > 1337829288 391581 JOIN :#esoteric > 1337829288 904841 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337830024 839934 :BlueProtoman!~Jesse@ool-18b81608.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1337830075 857546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337830289 658636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1337830333 850409 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-113.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337830515 386714 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-146-198.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337830642 889370 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337830706 994837 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1337831974 189216 :a!~Lairc@112.79.40.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337831990 963412 :a!~Lairc@112.79.40.199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1337831995 626346 :a!~Lairc@112.79.40.199 NICK :Guest65643 < 1337832008 630040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1337832009 991837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Guest65643 < 1337832013 961963 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest65643: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1337832033 169721 :Guest65643!~Lairc@112.79.40.199 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337832041 158343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1337832741 571948 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1337832942 60271 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1337833027 457421 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-137-160.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337833058 504034 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1337833261 151795 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-113.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1337834526 429023 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-147-135.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337834616 111271 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful tool: https://github.com/timmaxw/netrecord < 1337834642 254050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful tool: http:// < 1337834648 590675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should play Crawl Light. < 1337834650 619928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has squarelos now. < 1337834670 387643 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help what's crawlight???????? < 1337834683 661979 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :qne: what's squarelos????? < 1337834694 472336 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :squarelos angeles < 1337834762 561282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-137-160.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337834885 297698 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337835053 141280 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-147-135.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337837304 108503 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337837419 726376 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337837453 168750 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-122-99.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337837609 652840 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337837769 609910 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337838010 913462 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-225-230.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337838953 581400 :bin_bash!~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337838960 677980 :bin_bash!~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use brainfuck to build an IRC bot. < 1337839072 530423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1337839074 433367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been done, though < 1337839077 605634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome bin_bash < 1337839080 97135 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin_bash: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1337839084 683595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need an interface to connect it to the network < 1337839102 475989 :bin_bash!~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been done? really?. well shit. < 1337839107 844847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not "really". < 1337839114 346170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only one I've seen just joined and said something, then pinged out a bit later. < 1337839117 215276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even accept input. < 1337839129 305786 :bin_bash!~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1337839364 503955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-04-06 12:33:29 I'm written in brainfuck < 1337839366 1127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But then, it was a lie.) < 1337839392 94237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are *you* written in brainfuck? < 1337839393 772247 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's probably intentionally inaccessible to the language construct, before they used computers. when i was using symbols, there's no way you can just push enter again < 1337839422 22859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's a "maybe". < 1337839428 482567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Patashu How was it that brogue's stairs were scummable, again? There's talk of doing something similar (monsters following you through them) for Crawl Light. < 1337839429 318590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1337839494 58388 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You never answore my question. < 1337839528 499361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked it with too many question marks. < 1337839777 605938 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1337840207 599197 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh. < 1337840211 308822 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's Crawl Light? < 1337840247 700567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fork of Crawl that removes a lot of pointless tedium (hunger, curses, identification), shortens the game, and is starting to add new stuff; e.g. it has a hard mode. < 1337840251 496898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it has squarelos now. < 1337840302 943831 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are squarelos? < 1337840370 404396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how the field of view is a badly-approximated circle in Crawl? < 1337840373 186962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a square in Light. < 1337840377 432723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which fixes a bunch of gameplay bugs. < 1337840824 850759 :bin_bash!~bin_bash@unaffiliated/bin-bash/x-0273453 PART #esoteric :"And I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad. The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had." < 1337841262 143914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1337841539 666749 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1337841596 932740 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337841858 626878 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1337841859 759423 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337842267 270549 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337842808 217405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: hi < 1337842840 970978 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1337842841 165112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1337842869 955335 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Stairdancing this should fully explain it < 1337842888 338978 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, in brogue monsters follow you when you take stairs if they were hunting you actively when you took it < 1337842895 58508 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :X turns pass and then they come up the stairs < 1337842898 462616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand that much < 1337842904 806668 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where X = how long it takes them to get there < 1337842913 521704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i also understand this :P < 1337842972 957451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If all these are satisfied, the game calculates how long it would take the monster to walk to where you were (not to the stairs, to where you were)" < 1337842975 231164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is obviously broken < 1337842976 916523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would be fixed < 1337842994 494934 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about brogue staircases is < 1337842998 898047 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the staircase is an instant action < 1337843006 387244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're next to a staircase you can will yourself to be next to it on the other level < 1337843008 768645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant as in 0 turn? < 1337843009 863691 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :using your mental powers < 1337843011 979358 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 turns < 1337843013 439083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it's adjacent < 1337843015 819396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you can go up < 1337843016 371758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :down < 1337843016 779362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :up < 1337843017 872774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :down < 1337843019 826001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 0 turns < 1337843022 889252 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes 0 time < 1337843023 437022 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1337843025 920215 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit weird < 1337843026 883784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also broken < 1337843029 297833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would be fixed < 1337843038 38790 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing you can exploit about this is < 1337843038 313060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those two things in combination fix the scumming? :P < 1337843042 627222 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you and a monster are next to the stairs < 1337843043 966946 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take the stairs < 1337843045 161082 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a step < 1337843045 988127 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monster appear < 1337843048 931346 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now take the stairs again < 1337843051 759249 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat as long as you like < 1337843055 471538 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like crawl's doordancing but with stairs < 1337843057 692356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1337843067 76473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, none of that will apply to Light < 1337843067 270748 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very cheap < 1337843076 710358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should play Light!!! it has squarelos now < 1337843079 327723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to meeeeee < 1337843111 56572 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, squarelos < 1337843119 276731 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll have to unlearn my habit of moving diagonally towards things < 1337843123 769791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe < 1337843132 877658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even does that < 1337843136 74127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do even you do that < 1337843138 578727 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another fun thing about brogue < 1337843141 125619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can be BOTHERED, man < 1337843144 701948 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monsters are slightly less likely to wake up approaching them diagonally < 1337843149 676678 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only if they're land based < 1337843152 5108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh < 1337843157 291011 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never told me what squarelos were. < 1337843157 802164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't do that < 1337843163 928071 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :squarelos is < 1337843165 304394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the los is a square < 1337843166 619977 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :circlelos is < 1337843166 984519 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: did you know: light has sidestepping < 1337843167 981012 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the los is a circle < 1337843168 827707 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess you did. < 1337843171 865040 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: w-what < 1337843172 824408 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it a square? < 1337843180 19212 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: like in doomrl < 1337843186 25081 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because it can't be both a square and a circle at once < 1337843190 664638 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I never mastered sidestepping in doomrl < 1337843190 858689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: https://github.com/dtsund/crawl-light/commit/4978bd01902f948a5bdbc00d48539a2d912523a7 the biggest commit < 1337843195 342969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mastered" < 1337843196 844997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in light it's just < 1337843198 279258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :50% chance < 1337843199 789698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1337843201 510017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it was < 1337843202 983749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it changed < 1337843251 376123 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Make noise squarer.' < 1337843252 848025 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be a circle on even turns and a square on odd turns. < 1337843255 327926 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favourite sentence of the day < 1337843275 703792 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"indjinnuity" < 1337843282 999384 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :' Replace PI with 3 for Tornado rotation purposes.' < 1337843284 950066 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, pi is 3 < 1337843289 384893 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the universe explodes* < 1337843316 466151 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye universe :'( < 1337843330 669702 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when the universe explodes at the end of Riven? < 1337843340 580557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ // const int corrupt_perc_chance = < 1337843340 774558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1386 < 1337843340 774692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ // idistance * idistance <= ground_zero_radius2 ? 100 : < 1337843342 113349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1387 < 1337843344 102577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ // std::max(1, 100 - (idistance * idistance - ground_zero_radius2) * 70 / 42); < 1337843346 169545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice forgetting-to-coment-out, elliott < 1337843360 191610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1337843360 770035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove < 1337843361 638925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commented < 1337843362 186463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :out < 1337843364 206194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1337843374 700653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: anyway telnet light.bitprayer.com < 1337843377 335461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also #CrawlLight < 1337843386 554665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ~a whale of a time~ < 1337843397 251120 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/join #CrawlLight < 1337843409 251810 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try, shachaf ! < 1337843416 303145 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO #cRAWLlIGHT < 1337843429 139185 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thanks ! < 1337843509 722700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: (#crawllight does not talk much) < 1337843513 766851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it does < 1337843572 671705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: btw you should try hard mode < 1337843578 254093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask monqy for details on hard mde < 1337843579 94258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode < 1337843600 664787 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is #CrawlLight a type of beer? < 1337843603 911135 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1337843643 549511 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337844176 776818 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337844232 290472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should play Crawl Light! IT HAS SQUARELOS NOW. THANKS TO ME. < 1337844236 834191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ALSO YOU < 1337844238 427603 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (...) and generate all posible combinations of the three < 1337844241 585882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: AND YOU < 1337844269 249139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you were there, and you were there, and you were there < 1337844300 7101 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should I play Crawl Light? < 1337844322 889631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1337844324 55262 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25 !talk crawl < 1337844324 249277 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25 crawl instead! =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D good for washing her mother father’s sister doesn't work in multiple .muttrcs < 1337844325 785613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Or yes. < 1337844338 128920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe.) < 1337844339 444288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Never.) < 1337844651 589104 :impomatic!~digital_w@227.127.112.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337845043 903921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337845263 781924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337846138 585682 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname < 1337847231 381126 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337847353 174671 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337847392 970212 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1337847741 125296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337848226 581007 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little butterfly! < 1337848263 697594 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[butterfly] < 1337848463 702681 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noo, that transcription is wrong < 1337848507 720067 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's [bVt@flaI]! < 1337848533 896501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like that transcription < 1337848561 427863 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Can you transcribe it for us? < 1337848574 26433 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1337848582 305232 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly that @ that i don't like < 1337848666 336245 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott it's mostly that @ that i don't like < 1337848666 695129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1337848701 818283 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me, < 1337848728 307415 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't worry monqy I'm a big monqyfan!) < 1337848852 440911 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that the first I heard of Yahoo! Axis is due to the private key? < 1337848918 238270 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it just came out yesterday or something. < 1337848959 682592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/u26pv/yahoo_included_their_cert_private_key_inside_the/ < 1337848972 291708 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo I saw < 1337848984 56382 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://p.twimg.com/AtoL12ICIAEwTbz.jpg:large < 1337849010 199686 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's linked there < 1337849978 525582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: haha, ouch! < 1337850099 304308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'd heard of Yahoo! Axis before, but they only announced it today, IIRC < 1337850121 945729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a mistake as obvious as that is likely to be found quickly < 1337850122 493950 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu, OUCH < 1337850127 473330 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo* < 1337850128 570687 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you < 1337850130 998003 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a mistake like tht? < 1337850133 408934 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1337850133 971907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who puts their private key in a source tarball anyway? < 1337850142 235457 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think they meant for people to use it... < 1337850149 540826 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just they didn't think out the implications. < 1337850178 751842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a public private key is completely useless :) < 1337850191 282741 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1337850203 776024 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming that maybe someone was a bit unsure of how Chrome extensions work? < 1337850212 66970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't know that much about cryptography? < 1337850221 871700 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they meant for the developers to use it, and, failed to think things through, to be honest. < 1337850225 909986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be both, I think < 1337850227 847176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought that in order to sign it, they needed the key in there? < 1337850234 70357 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't look like bad will, nor an accident. < 1337850251 931713 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it said "PRIVATE KEY" in big letters < 1337850271 4023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it makes some sort of sense to have the key with the rest of the source on their dev machines, because it's part of what you need to actually build and release the extension < 1337850293 715026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't make sense to make it part of the source you hand out (as part of the extension, in this case, because Chrome extensions are delivered in source form) < 1337850353 703172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the GPLv3's anti-tivoisation stuff doesn't require you to provide /your/ key, just if a key's required, provide a mechanism via which the user can use theirs, or one you provide for them < 1337850394 308770 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt Chrome's extension system is good enough for a public testing key though. < 1337850415 72510 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my shiiiit, they did *what*. < 1337850425 542209 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually released their private key. < 1337850429 13966 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if that's the case, there's a different question. < 1337850442 567991 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do the developers have direct access to the public key? < 1337850459 262391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I assume a company as big as Yahoo! have more than one private key < 1337850459 688223 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ that isn't their master key. < 1337850475 35099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, true, but *any* private key leaking is moronic. < 1337850475 229174 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, never assume sanity. < 1337850481 266678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, a valid private key for Yahoo! is the sort of thing that criminals would find quite valuable < 1337850484 284794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: agreed < 1337850511 588915 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if a developer had their key. < 1337850515 882751 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's its own kind if inane. < 1337850524 3102 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it was the build manager, I suppose. < 1337850539 131135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the key's got to be made out to Yahoo!, right? < 1337850585 667743 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1337850589 275865 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any developer with it < 1337850593 664819 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could use it for malicious purposes already < 1337850614 491468 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If devs really had it, that's possibly >10-20 people who can leak/do nasty things with it < 1337850618 112042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1337850632 241399 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally. < 1337850646 845703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's of a similar level of chaos to being able to reliably forge Bill Gates' handwritten signature, in such a way that people would believe it was him < 1337850663 223509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or the equivalent for the CEO of Yahoo!, at least < 1337850668 383994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever the new one is, or haven't they appointed one yet? < 1337850674 211594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also suggests somewhat poor key protocol. < 1337850675 499914 :cheater!~cheater@g231045133.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1337850675 694246 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +b :cheater*!*@*.adsl.alicedsl.de < 1337850675 695459 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. KICK #esoteric cheater :User is banned from this channel > 1337850675 875943 NAMES :#esoteric < 1337850698 30546 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't we have an mechanism to where < 1337850716 830934 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that I bet a lot of people are going to be trying shit on Yahoo. < 1337850722 808529 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be the normal thing to do, exactly? < 1337850735 30041 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, limited distribution of the kye < 1337850736 195254 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :key* < 1337850739 185254 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only people whom need it have it < 1337850742 506866 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even only automatic systems. < 1337850759 748774 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sysadmins could easily snatch the key, I think, even with lots of precautions) < 1337850760 675183 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than give devs the key? Have another in-house key? < 1337850775 690279 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, I mean, for devs to test < 1337850776 171563 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving devs the production key is a horrible idea. < 1337850782 839955 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, umm... < 1337850791 17095 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving devs a test key is trivial. < 1337850798 281272 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the private key be physically separated from everything else < 1337850799 377439 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, well, just make one up. < 1337850801 287872 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when needed to publish < 1337850802 108910 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proper solution is to have a test mode so you don't need things signed. < 1337850803 179651 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps also a testing CA. < 1337850812 404000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: In a sane environment? Yes. < 1337850817 214523 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiui for chrome you generate a new keypair for every extension < 1337850823 299554 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is hardly like leaking the yahoo master key < 1337850824 610699 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: I'm assuming for some reason you can't just do that. < 1337850826 545677 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still a major fuckup < 1337850848 78632 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, you make a test CA and test certs off that. < 1337850848 352853 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaking the Yahoo CA key would... < 1337850850 705792 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be bad. < 1337850852 93577 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very very bad. < 1337850866 581407 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really not that hard. I've got the tools for it installed right now. < 1337850868 982307 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even revoke a CA key, right? < 1337850871 19686 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they come with OpenSSL) < 1337850883 35182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Yahoo even a CA? < 1337850891 901598 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might have a CA-level key < 1337850898 566587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: you /can/, not via the revocation method, but all the browser manufacturers will go remove the CA from their list of root keys < 1337850904 599500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How you "revoke" a CA is convincing people to remove it from the list of approved keys. < 1337850907 318187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already happened to DigiNotar < 1337850913 649902 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a leak of a CA key makes that happen *quick*. < 1337850933 561469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And usually they also remove all other keys you've ever had, because you're bad at this. < 1337850935 424821 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't convince the average user. < 1337850977 329057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have to convince the average user, they put it in the browser updates and push it out as security updates < 1337850981 887120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :average user will normally apply /those/ < 1337850984 667960 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have to, it's a "screaming emergency" security patch. Anymore, it'll happen unless it's some guy using Windows 95 on a computer bought in 1995. < 1337851012 178043 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that guy has a computer where every single binary is infected with a virus, so who cares? < 1337851047 44708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's probably running, umm, IE4? < 1337851065 270498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I wonder how easily exploitable IE4 on Win95 is nowadays from random attacks in the wild < 1337851071 139189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd wonder if they'd died out due to a lack of hosts < 1337851085 880999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether there's still one hugely optimistic win95 virus somewhere still trying to spread < 1337851097 407495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, could be running IE5.5. < 1337851131 143367 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, win95 viruses can't even infect modern Windows, right? < 1337851153 500863 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In principle you could make a virus with multiple attack vectors... < 1337851158 102583 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches mbam scan itself
< 1337851163 169723 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's highly unlikely anyone bothered trying. < 1337851175 603537 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux/Windows might be attempted < 1337851178 130732 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see a WINE-aware virus < 1337851179 61068 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I doubt it. < 1337851184 351144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: in theory they could, if the backwards-compatibility is good enough; but the attack vectors they user are pretty locked down < 1337851196 903743 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is just a Linux virus in a PE executable. < 1337851199 419861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Linux/Windows has been done as proof of concept, but it didn't get into the wild < 1337851202 950025 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link libc.so < 1337851211 566975 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you detect WINE, try using Linux syscalls < 1337851212 452921 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1337851223 490776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The architecture of Win9x is so damned *different* from WinNT that most of the more clever viruses would hard-core break. < 1337851242 57774 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the less clever ones would get permission errors on WinNT. < 1337851269 191845 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you run as admin. < 1337851270 793396 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 is more secure (viruswise) than 7 nowadays? < 1337851272 770728 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1337851278 589420 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Only by obscurity. < 1337851291 553934 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is also pretty secure by that notion. < 1337851319 113509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slice of bread "the most secure computing platform" < 1337851333 10768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /can/ Wine executables call Linux syscalls? < 1337851342 785588 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, yes. < 1337851347 316411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd sort-of expect Wine to translate them into somethinge lse < 1337851349 95531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*else < 1337851349 461300 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanislav recently called a brick "Lisp-like" by some measures < 1337851350 985296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps not < 1337851355 25758 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he was making fun of something < 1337851359 504389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wine isn't that extensive. < 1337851369 231144 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's actually most akin to Microcosm in structure. < 1337851369 979718 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I recall reading that WINE binaries can use Linux syscalls. < 1337851384 639161 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that a WINE-aware program... < 1337851389 408065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405 < 1337851398 732742 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checks if Linux syscalls work, and, if they do, load libc.so, etc, and follow a slightly different codepath. < 1337851402 278596 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a PE loader and dynamic linker, with a set of libraries, with some hacks so *those* libraries can link against Linux libraries. < 1337851441 831028 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, I think it's actually a set of hacks so some of its libraries are straight-up provided by .so files. But anyways.) < 1337851476 895519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and for maximum compatibility, part of DOS and a Win16 environment (which manages to work on x86-64). < 1337851497 788437 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337851498 166464 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I was wondering if Windows used the interrupt in question for something else, in which case it would have to < 1337851502 847997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1337851504 816510 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337851509 236496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in particular, I was wondering if Windows used the interrupt in question for something else, in which case it would have to < 1337851513 531441 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See logs. < 1337851570 442372 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Windows has the interesting property that the system calls are *not* part of the userspace API. < 1337851592 59450 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interrupts used to get into kernel space are known to change with individual *patches* sometimes. < 1337851617 91023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the only interrupts used by Windows are DOS interrupts, and those only for Win16. < 1337851636 558862 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those don't interact too well with Win16 anyways. < 1337851644 666628 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not all of them. < 1337851679 347129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, WINE does implement them even on x86 systems *without* the virtualized real mode... < 1337851686 86615 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how it does that, actually. < 1337851707 239381 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, right. No, it probably doesn't. < 1337851738 691527 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win16 programs need to work in protected mode, because configurations of Win2.0 or Win3.x would actually do that. < 1337851786 229509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :win3.1 ran in protected mode by default, if it existed on your processor < 1337851821 592717 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. 16-bit protected mode is, nevertheless, protected mode. < 1337851848 893944 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess anything using DOS interrupts on Win16 would just break horribly on popular configurations of it. < 1337852042 883408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for DOS programs, it dropped into real mode temporarily to run them < 1337852062 54759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a secondary alt-tab handler for that case so you could switch away from them < 1337852079 837186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose on 286 protected mode it would have. < 1337852110 882581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As far as I know, 3.1 no longer ran on real mode at all; that's why it required at least a 286. (Though it had a separate "386 enhanced" mode.) < 1337852120 904178 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 386 protected mode it would preëmptively multitask a bunch of virtual DOS machines. < 1337852134 504511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of August 2011, even the newest x86 CPUs (including x86-64 CPUs) start in real mode at power-on and can run software written for almost any previous chip (with a few exceptions due to slight instruction set differences)." < 1337852163 71804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, was that it? < 1337852179 767109 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think the main thing is the absolute latest Intel chips *finally* stopped disabling A20. < 1337852180 921502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that both preëmptive and coöperative have a diaeresis
< 1337852202 387313 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A20? < 1337852210 235407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they planning to reuse the opcodes for the BCD stuff for something else < 1337852211 761140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't no much about this stuff < 1337852222 720649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, you can't do the virtual-8086 mode while in the 64-bit "long mode", i.e. when running a 64-bit OS. < 1337852228 16091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: one of the address lines, it was repurposed for something dubious on the basis that nothing had that much memory anyway and they needed a pin < 1337852239 492159 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 286-and-up based IBM PCs, the 20th address line was disabled by default. < 1337852252 106437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 21st, sorry. < 1337852255 13408 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 indexed lines. < 1337852288 953939 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was to emulate the wrapping behavior of earlier Intel CPUs, which only had 20 address lines. < 1337852299 473050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IIRC, they repurposed a pin from the keyboard controller to enable/disable it; it was disabled for backwards compatibility reasons, so that the one-megabit wrapping would work. < 1337852309 399981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more shocked at the still supporting real mode thing < 1337852321 980360 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upshot of which is that you had ~1M of *address* space, but only 640k of actual memory max. < 1337852323 42114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the keyboard controller was repurposed for several dubious things, like rebooting < 1337852330 512666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that they'd have used the address bus pin for anything dubious. < 1337852332 906161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was a way to go protected -> real ever introduced? < 1337852333 179043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although people later decided that triple-faulting was easier < 1337852341 448435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yep, that's what the keyboard controller reboot was for < 1337852342 721922 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, in 386. < 1337852352 114282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before that you needed keyboard controller reboot. < 1337852354 264771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they added an official method eventually < 1337852358 671627 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 386. < 1337852366 188858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it triple-faulting, or something else? < 1337852378 121297 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something else, I don't recall what it was off the top of my head. < 1337852394 762868 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was essential to making DPMI reasonable, though. < 1337852401 707697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(triple-faulting: when you have an exception in the exception handler /for/ the exception handler) < 1337852432 644077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, both Linux and Windows still try the keyboard handler as the final fallback for when they can't find any other way to reboot a machine < 1337852454 258998 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Linux still has intentional-triple-fault somewhere. < 1337852484 282947 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyways, the reason why x86 CPUs still support real mode is pretty simple... < 1337852515 32987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Linux's reboot method is actually currently identical to Windows' < 1337852535 795020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they reverse-engineered Windows' methods in the end, rather than trying to follow standards, on the basis that all the hardware manufacturers were only testing with Windows < 1337852537 485288 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A CPU, when it starts, needs to start executing at a known address, so the startup code will run, right? < 1337852556 979423 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, waaaay back in 8086, they set that up. So, the BIOS was stuck there. < 1337852583 338499 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, Linux, IIRC, used an intentional triple fault for rebooting. < 1337852626 599807 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And this has never changed, because you would essentially end up creating a CPU with an utterly incompatible boot scheme. < 1337852640 130256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for obvious reasons, the BIOS expected to run in real mode. < 1337852657 586193 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, all x86 CPUs support real mode to some extent. < 1337852669 618993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets better: EFI systems still start this way, too. < 1337852688 479180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch/x86/kernel/reboot.c: http://p.zem.fi/st2n < 1337852691 244302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it because the CPU expects it? < 1337852711 409518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an extra triple-fault fallback at the end. < 1337852712 504664 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it's because you don't want to make EFI-only CPUs. < 1337852716 88154 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with a ... I don't know much about EFI other than being an alternative to BIOS < 1337852718 81249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure Windows actually complies with standards. < 1337852743 98146 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's just that merely working with something that complies with standards doesn't mean much. :) < 1337852758 658666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: EFI is essentially *just* different startup code. < 1337852789 675325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of the CPU starting at 0x9000 (was that where it starts? I don't even remember) and running the BIOS, it starts at 0x9000 and runs the EFI firmware. < 1337852806 14413 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different enough that the OS needs to expect it? < 1337852829 447252 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *yes*, it presents a somewhat different API. < 1337852830 451089 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it mean that I find funny that after the normal shutdown sequence, Linux acts kinda like a human operator kicking on a machine going "Hello?? Why arn't you working?" < 1337852849 482290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, hm? < 1337852861 242238 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337852873 796010 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's still following standards, but it's pointless, but some real-life hardware actually relies on it doing that < 1337852875 878159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1337852877 949294 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337852899 476151 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What I'm trying to say is, it's not *Windows* fault at all. < 1337852908 894778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1337852914 186761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the hardware manufacturer's fault < 1337852916 576169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for only testing with it < 1337852919 892695 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have perfectly reasonable behavior, the rest of the world is just insane. < 1337852923 770622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like screenscraping < 1337852936 676834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really blame the website when it stops working < 1337852967 495515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "The reset vector for the 80386DX and later x86 processors is 0xFFFF0, although the value of the CS register at reset is 0xF000 and the value of the IP register at reset is 0xFFF0. In actuality, current x86 processors fetch from the physical address 0xFFFFFFF0. This is due to a hidden base address portion of the CS register in real mode which defaults to 0xFFFF0000 after reset." < 1337852973 988370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was ffff:0000 for 8086. < 1337852977 552607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A handful of things in x86 don't work consistently in all systems; shutdown is one of the big areas. < 1337852985 866488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I.e. physical ffff0.) < 1337853003 744461 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't confuse x86 with the PC platform < 1337853007 497279 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because of this, Linux basically tries a random smattering of different things. < 1337853029 247414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1337853040 969372 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason to expect that all x86 systems would have the same shutdown sequence < 1337853050 75814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me when I say your computer is, at its basis, a pile of hacks. < 1337853051 394661 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a function of the platform and not the CPU architecture < 1337853062 856617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you'd expect them to have the same reset vector, though < 1337853074 122999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you'd expect all IBM PCs to have the same one. ... Not that it works that way. :) < 1337853084 20419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, this is fascinating, I want to learn more about these "hacks" < 1337853106 225172 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the osdev wiki has some info < 1337853110 411033 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1337853127 701563 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You'd "love" how you figure out the address space map, then. < 1337853135 714916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact, it was standardised in *2002*.) < 1337853161 140229 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: write a real mode graphics demo which uses 640x480 resolution and fits in a boot sector < 1337853182 875712 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what is referred to by "address space map". Mapping what? < 1337853201 213800 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't just refer to memory by a single number, I guess? < 1337853201 624752 :ais523_!~ais523@147.188.254.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337853210 348426 :ais523_!~ais523@147.188.254.178 QUIT :Changing host < 1337853210 542724 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337853224 714844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Some parts of the non-virtualised address space are in use. For instance, there's a chunk of memory dedicated to the BIOS, some to the video framebuffer, some for ACPI... < 1337853245 780327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel needs to know about this so it doesn't allocate over them and break stuff. < 1337853250 666479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1337853253 681017 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337853260 617052 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't < 1337853266 176442 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well, ok. I'm going to guess that it's not as simple as "Anything below this number is reserved stuff"? < 1337853271 778185 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triple fault pretty guaranteed to reset the system? < 1337853279 468498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: not much else it can do < 1337853288 810578 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nowhere *near*. In part because real mode makes that really hard. < 1337853289 532096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shut it down? < 1337853315 74884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure there's *some* processor that has a more or less configurable reset vector. Quite a few let you configure endianness, after all. (Okay, scoped into x86 you'd expect it to be same.) < 1337853320 979344 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Some of that reserved stuff is at the high end of the 16-bit address space. < 1337853339 419296 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!Fun!! < 1337853348 983223 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Normal real mode programs would run *below* that point, and it was reasonably well-known where the BIOS would be. < 1337853350 941733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's quite a lot of stuff around the one megabyte limit. < 1337853358 117198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.osdev.org/Memory_Map_(x86) lists some stuff. < 1337853369 68488 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, there's anything added later. < 1337853393 557951 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could very well have gotten allocated at random points, because the evolution of the design is *weird*. < 1337853412 32402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a hole between 15-16MB, too, for memory-mapped ISA stuff. < 1337853446 749713 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337853452 695104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337853456 310561 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned the other day that the default location for RAM used by System Management Mode is under the VGA framebuffer < 1337853463 555329 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337853472 897855 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, accesses to those addresses in SMM go to RAM, in other modes they go to VGA hardware < 1337853480 410327 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By far the best way to detect the memory of a PC is by using the INT 0x15, EAX = 0xE820 command. This function is available on all PCs built since 2002" < 1337853482 3438 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, that? < 1337853497 891161 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah. < 1337853515 101181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot (although maybe not quite as badly as Yahoo!) with VC++2012 < 1337853526 237987 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, howso? < 1337853530 307553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pay for the expensive pay version to compile anything but Metro apps < 1337853537 816232 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In effect, they're deprecating Win32. < 1337853555 257973 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the only thing keeping Windows at all relevant. < 1337853561 887056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can check early dmesg for what your own computer's memory map looks like. It'll have a list like http://p.zem.fi/ujz1 < 1337853615 589712 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, there are free compilers for Win32 right? < 1337853650 714136 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody just goes on to use mingw32? < 1337853652 920267 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right < 1337853672 753831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; cygwin (produces executables that depend on a GPLed library, deliberately); mingw (produces properly native executables); apparently nowadays also clang < 1337853723 603635 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cygwin can also be used to generate non-cygwin binaries. < 1337853730 701799 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this usage, it's basically mingw, though. < 1337853740 466853 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean "literally". < 1337853752 563835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: indeed, and a relatively crippled mingw at that < 1337853759 973671 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1337853762 163285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid. < 1337853886 729916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "fun" is that ISA is basically still around. < 1337853898 728533 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nearly dead, but hey. < 1337853928 456445 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nelhage's qemu breakout exploit involves hotplug-removing the emulated ISA bridge < 1337853949 921514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certain devices are hanging off a bus that looks like the ISA bus to software, and IDE is literally very fast ISA. < 1337853964 870500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, IDE is dead or dying. < 1337853984 850552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many hardware monitoring chips are "ISA" devices. < 1337853998 720020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1337854026 913547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sensors < 1337854027 149399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :it8718-isa-0228 < 1337854027 149599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adapter: ISA adapter < 1337854072 597301 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp3: +85.0°C (low = +127.0°C, high = +112.0°C) sensor = thermal diode < 1337854077 406530 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Can't be right. < 1337854083 233415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things are also such a mess. Everyone wires the resistors differently, lm-sensors configuration files are full of "well, it's this chip, but we need to either multiply this by two or divide it by three depending on which MB it is". < 1337854114 254667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the labels are mostly guesswork too. < 1337854130 493703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just labeled my voltage numbers manually based on which number they're closest to. < 1337854262 575571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a rather large wiki of configurations, http://www.lm-sensors.org/wiki/Configurations < 1337854339 346699 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, jeeze, yeah... Also, compact flash. < 1337854358 317925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrically compatible with ISA and IDE. < 1337854374 868921 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PCMCIA, of course. < 1337854478 563849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337854496 341618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, someone's filed in the Wiki computation rules that might work for my Atom box. That's nice; currently the voltage readings are +1.68, +1.16, +1.50, +0.94, +1.10, +0.82, +0.94, +1.53 and +1.50. Apparently those should be multiplied by 2, 1, 1, 5.255319148, 11, 5.255319148, 2, 2 and 2, respectively, in order to get actual voltages. < 1337854779 539173 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337854830 430390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1337854832 23784 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337854972 532074 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337855051 18737 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1337855138 587558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1337855149 954335 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337855361 990039 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337855784 736825 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS dev is not a CS subject, right? < 1337855791 264561 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what sort of thing is it? < 1337855884 435925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337855919 781065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is a powerful feeling for the only code to be running on a machine to be your own." < 1337855927 384228 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about BIOS/EFI, that's not your own code... < 1337856090 102280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't running after boot < 1337856100 124001 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SMM is < 1337856117 267496 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is the firmware on hundreds of special purpose controllers all over the motherboard < 1337856165 591762 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 QUIT :Quit: http://retroprogramming.com < 1337856183 703209 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's common for CS programs to have OS courses < 1337856200 990434 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, ah < 1337856211 348923 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMU's is supposedly very good < 1337856215 272902 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT's 6.828 is very good < 1337856216 303311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they discuss what things must do on actual hardware? < 1337856220 275308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The course I took did not < 1337856225 311162 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in large part < 1337856241 113096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The professor wrote a program in .NET with a simulated CPU < 1337856248 445412 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 6.828 you write substantial parts of an OS that can run on a real PC < 1337856251 643956 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We would write algorithms for various things as plugins in C# < 1337856265 697839 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, is MIT's course on Open CourseWare or whatever? < 1337856277 13612 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the more arbitrary details of x86 are dealt with in code that's provided to you < 1337856283 582418 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is explained and they go into some detail < 1337856296 313757 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way i recently came across http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html < 1337856302 239644 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I'm stuck in a shitty school < 1337856329 733327 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't remember if it's formally on OCW... but I had no trouble finding the labs online < 1337856364 772775 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only done the labs where you work on JOS, the cool "exokernel" OS < 1337856386 622736 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You end up writing code that gets plugged in as part of the simulation rather than as code that executes on the simulated computer." < 1337856397 290651 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^just said that to my gf explaining what the course is like < 1337856398 112528 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked at the other parts of the course, like the parts that deal with xv6, which is a UNIX-like OS < 1337856407 126083 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's double lame < 1337856420 521408 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for something claiming to be an OS course < 1337856428 395355 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a good way to approach CPU architecture, though < 1337856438 434417 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.004 is another very cool MIT class < 1337856462 169114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea was to understand the algorithms behind, say, fixed partitioning memory whatchamacallit < 1337856464 648702 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you design a RISC CPU at the level of individual logic gates < 1337856483 954472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I wish I went to MIT < 1337856492 790235 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their simulator is very simple, nowhere near as much complexity as an industrial HDL < 1337856525 408069 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the simulator is specific enough that you can play with timing and try to optimize your design for higher clock speed < 1337856531 358717 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never been an MIT student < 1337856536 126643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-828-operating-system-engineering-fall-2006/ < 1337856537 574412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This? < 1337856552 105135 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :labs are here: http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2011/ < 1337856594 388347 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, how are OSDev's tutorials? < 1337856604 2356 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1337856611 564006 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just used it as a reference to a few specific things < 1337856816 296702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337856859 186370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All of the 32-bit registers (EAX, ...) are still usable, by simply adding the "Operand Size Override Prefix" (0x66) to the beginning of any instruction. Your assembler is likely to do this for you, if you simply try to use a 32-bit register." < 1337856867 947767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess assemblers aren't as trivial as I thought < 1337856911 503148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assemblers still just do symbol resolution (and much of that's done by the linker nowadays), and convert opcode names into machine code < 1337856917 321729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just there are a /lot/ of opcode names nowadays to convert < 1337856940 839454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some OS designers think that it is simpler and cleaner to temporarily return to Real Mode on those occasions when it is necessary to access a BIOS function. " < 1337856955 71140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... I guess it wasn't simpler and cleaner when the CPU had to be restarted, right? < 1337856966 181445 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OSes do that? < 1337857089 508083 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :". Probing memory-mapped PCI devices may have *unpredictable results* and may theoretically *damage your system*, so once again we discourage its use." < 1337857344 781779 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 assembler's job is actually pretty easy compared to some architectures < 1337857404 279067 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what < 1337857428 530631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What architectures have assemblers that need to do significantly more than what amounts to a find and replace? < 1337857453 709968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1337857480 260057 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ARM a simple "load from immediate" encodes in kind of a complicated way < 1337857503 27459 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assembler might translate it to a load from memory, and put a constant into memory somewhere < 1337857575 898562 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also conditionals work totally differently depending on which variant of ARM you're using and which CPU mode it's in < 1337857589 146274 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most ARM chips support switching back and forth between at least two instruction sets, ARM and Thumb < 1337857604 113888 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the assembler has to keep track of that as well < 1337857704 235724 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the linker can generate additional instructions as it links, and there's a register reserved for this purpose < 1337857730 561458 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is not directly a concern for the assembler, however) < 1337858184 585808 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: on Itanium the potential parallelism between instructions is explicitly encoded in the machine code < 1337858200 525045 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some assemblers can figure this out for you automatically < 1337858256 15888 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does doing that mean more microoptimizations are possible for programmers willing to mess with the machine code, or is it a matter of what will make the chip be faster, or what's the purpose of that design decision? < 1337858311 27174 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the idea is to have less complex (and therefore, all else equal, faster) hardware < 1337858329 477828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, also, those computations at assembly-time rather than run-time I guess' < 1337858344 920512 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicitly encode parallelism instead of having the CPU figure it out on the fly < 1337858353 17911 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLIW < 1337858358 59857 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about VLIW though < 1337858393 238891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, I don't think VLIW-architecture compilers have been so incredibly clever after all. < 1337858403 967058 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1337858419 35005 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though VLIW or no, a good compiler still needs to know a lot of microarchitectural details in order to produce good code < 1337858438 919364 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to run the same code through gcc with various settings for -march=... and see what it produces < 1337858504 905188 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Itanium you explicitly encode the parallelism; on x86 you read about how the chip will infer the parallelism and then explicitly arrange instructions so it infers what you wanted ;) < 1337858980 643543 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337859165 979973 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1337859567 59331 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337859610 711859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337859651 248760 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337860750 451024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337860753 479190 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337860782 764730 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais532 < 1337860786 787025 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337861253 598458 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337861403 101127 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-230.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337861407 562095 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337862089 981462 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337862096 116106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337862112 490854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337862393 436336 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337862517 848532 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1337863668 550584 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337863723 393765 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337864051 689504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1337864243 653984 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337864244 970751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1337864247 716705 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337864535 371839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraGoogle-1193.pdf < 1337864538 272270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1337864554 326004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a scanned-in version of all the questions the jurors asked in oracle v. google) < 1337864694 747144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1337864707 630207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337864921 887834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's oragoogle going? Have they decided the copyrightability of API thing yet? < 1337864949 340159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing the judge was going to decide by himself. < 1337864983 369535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can read groklaw myself, though. < 1337865073 635440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please provide more notebooks for Phase 2." indeed! < 1337865080 475729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, no copyright progress < 1337865085 541524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :google won on all the patent allegations < 1337865456 922387 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Smart jury. < 1337865475 964449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, now that the full story's coming out it seems that they were < 1337865485 939275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you read one of the interviews with the jury foreman < 1337865496 773464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who was the only one who did interviews after the trial) < 1337865503 980095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to know how the court case about my ISP blocking Pirate Bay is going. They did it in early January (when someone had managed to dream up a list of DNS names and IP addresses), and the decision itself from the lowest court came in October 2011; IIRC they immediately filed an appeal, but I haven't heard anything about it, even though it's been seven months now. And there's no web ... < 1337865509 948294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... thing that I know of to follow on these things. < 1337865606 256569 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can you explain the difference between a package an an API" < 1337865611 271258 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they had no programmers. < 1337865630 308197 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, if they had even a single programmer, it would likely end VERY quickly. < 1337865663 270689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they had programmers, they kicked them out. < 1337865734 227770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, there were several people who knew about programming in the jury selection pool, who got excluded for one reason or another < 1337865744 792287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(knowing about programming seems to have been enough of a reason to exclude…) < 1337865760 947226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the jury were selected to not know about the issues in advance < 1337865772 721627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, just plain knowing anything about the matter in question is usually a reason enough. < 1337865800 392182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were also some lawyers in the jury selection pool, they got excluded too < 1337865823 960414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely wonder why they even bother to put lawyers in the pool, they're basically guaranteed to get excluded from every case < 1337865835 229999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION much prefers the UK system
< 1337865857 707253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they just take the first 12 random people, unless there's a really obvious reason why they shouldn't be there, like being a relative of the defendant < 1337865863 894012 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jury selection pool is random, neither your profession nor background is relevant until the actual selection process. < 1337865893 572720 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah, the very existence of a selection process is somewhat suspect. < 1337865909 941835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also specified by law, so they can't just drop people that they thing are likely to be dropped, I suppose. < 1337866084 143350 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have much of a jury thing, though the district courts have this "lay judge" people. < 1337866131 53991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Sweden is very close, except they have an actual jury system explicitly for libel and press-freedom cases. < 1337867213 744841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337867235 434467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337868214 27198 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure I get the logic of that... < 1337868223 632551 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somehow better to start with people with no prior knowledge of the subject at hand?? < 1337868409 162245 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more notebooks? < 1337868410 812735 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geez... < 1337868547 717810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Star Trek: The Animated Series any good? < 1337868596 83426 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD95BF2.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337868855 574713 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337868884 651969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337869160 415886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I know it has an episode which is written by Larry Niven which is just a straight copy of one of his short stories but with the Enterprise pasted in. < 1337869173 463078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337869176 564710 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niven... Niven... < 1337869183 556453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the name Larry Niven sound familiar < 1337869184 505496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also has the delightful side-effect of welding the Star Trek and Known Space canons. < 1337869193 166412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a well-known SF author? < 1337869343 881480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1337869350 874389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337869750 716071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if jury selection is like bfjoust < 1337869801 317235 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1337870008 795211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've heard the name due to Creatures community < 1337870041 65905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of text-based game < 1337870179 736300 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337870192 511208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1337870308 330383 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1337870309 715370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regicides_of_Charles_I < 1337870314 497894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't followed the link yet, was just admiring the URL < 1337870392 983396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page content is disappointing by comparison < 1337870406 754613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Jury or Juror has the following question: "I'm Sick. Can I get a sick day without being discharged? Sorry." < 1337870590 332514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she was discharged, in order to not hold up the trial, and also because the judge was worried about the illness spreading < 1337870620 559790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to miss Jury duty due to being sick < 1337870702 847719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably would if you'd already spent two weeks listening to the evidence < 1337870734 638577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the judge talking about the situation the following day (the whole jury'd been dismissed for the afternoon) < 1337870753 245140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i could excuse myself from being in a jury < 1337870770 676044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he pointed out that there were three possibilities: he could arrest her and force her to serve (legally), but he thought that was a stupid idea; wait for her (she'd likely take at least a day); or discharge her < 1337870770 870390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the third option was the only really sane one < 1337870785 385203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys have heard me chat.. i don't think it would take much for me to show its a bad idea to have me in there < 1337870849 814642 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an episode of Becker where the titular character is awaiting jury duty, and decides to bring a book about law with him since to his non-stupid mind that makes sense. At first in the juror interviews he says things like, "in fact, I've been reading a book about law and–" before they dismiss him, but by the end he realizes that even if he just says "book" he'll be dismissed. < 1337870864 47024 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes i saw some of this on tv the other week! < 1337870943 377895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the book thing at least < 1337870987 823202 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337871022 522756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if discussing jury duty excludes us all from doing jury duty? < 1337871048 933307 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1337871069 293232 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing enough about civics to realize that there exists a concept of jury duty excludes you from jury duty. < 1337871128 669274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1337871283 178564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how many of those in the jury subsequently took up programming hobby < 1337871284 560038 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337871337 609363 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I doubt it's zero. < 1337871391 566361 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337871505 378328 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1337871538 388722 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1337871685 807514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this, i also thought up a new way to set up a school. that if you fail, some anonymous person in the class takes the fall for you. < 1337871723 329582 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although such a system could be exploited by those who don't have much morals, it may be highly motivating < 1337871893 408472 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'd imagine that at least one took up programming. I'm sure anybody able to fully understand low level stuff like that in the span of 2 weeks would do at least decently < 1337871896 817625 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Was that 2 weeks?) < 1337872006 895648 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were probably motivated to learn by knowing that there were consequences for failing to learn.. i think thats where i bridged the two ideas < 1337872467 709167 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :18<20itidus21> with this, i also thought up a new way to set up a school. that if you fail, some anonymous person in the class takes the fall for you. < 1337872468 930589 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways < 1337872485 270501 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That really depends on the age group < 1337872492 866014 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to say what happens if you try that K-12 or pre-graduate? < 1337872498 692689 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And people will call you super-unfair post-graduate) < 1337872516 710412 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to unpost that after i posted it < 1337872544 11777 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can feel a spirit of fascism in it < 1337873443 498026 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 3 exams today < 1337876433 532099 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337876581 419819 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-225-230.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337877178 299675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm installing a new version of the JVM < 1337877201 781481 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ad in the installer says Java is installed in 3 billion places, including cell phones < 1337877558 87162 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old phone had it < 1337877595 442129 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just amused, because of the whole Oracle vs Google over Android thing < 1337877666 168041 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not counting Android. < 1337877686 405792 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, my new phone has it < 1337877688 772143 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it is counting the large number of feature phones, which invariably have Java ME. < 1337877777 593879 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think either of my middle phones had it? < 1337877784 776972 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure, though < 1337878363 224677 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost surely did. < 1337878397 651227 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337878440 867794 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the only phones *without* a JVM installed on them in the past decade are Android phones. < 1337878458 426698 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Windows phones don't have a JVM. < 1337878462 193384 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iPhone has a JVM? < 1337878468 602309 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, iPhone definitely doesn't. < 1337878478 3714 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :window phone has JVM? < 1337878494 827612 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, apparently smartphones are weirder than I thought. < 1337878511 228258 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well featurephones didn't tecnicaly use JVM. they used KVM < 1337878512 668661 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write an apology to #scheme < 1337878518 645903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I inflicted a clueless person on them < 1337878538 955155 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows phones are a .NET monstrosity on top of Windows CE, which is of course also a monstrosity. < 1337878556 604086 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPhone is quite fervently against VM languages, except for JavaScript. < 1337878564 813855 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then only their VM) < 1337878636 547869 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Apple decided to permit Sun to do a port. Sun has not since bothered. < 1337878643 20642 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Oracle is unlikely to. < 1337878660 347511 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1337878683 110739 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they seem to be moving into the lucrative "lawsuit" market. < 1337879008 751113 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, xz is REALLY slow. < 1337879078 589773 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if its compression ratio is worth its speed. < 1337879174 350427 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, although it sure is an impressive compression ratio X-D < 1337879184 244512 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got a Snowflake root image to 20% original size. < 1337879379 762277 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I stopped using bzip2 and I just use gzip since it's faster.. slightly bigger but not too much difference between those two anyways < 1337879400 62378 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is xz significantly better than bzip2? < 1337879438 891134 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts SICP on his Nook
< 1337879450 996665 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unequivocally better. Whether it's significantly better depends on who you ask, the phase of the moon, ... < 1337879541 135629 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you can use it on the kernel, that's cool < 1337879711 954164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GaussianGirl < 1337879718 716660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most disappointingly-named trope? < 1337879859 517873 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337879892 979477 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>Named for the Gaussian Blur effect in Adobe Photoshop and imitators. < 1337879894 73359 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>imitators < 1337879967 292611 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-144-145.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1337879973 747482 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337881889 888945 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337881898 524127 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1337882132 611106 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337882315 608801 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Changing host < 1337882315 842241 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1337882449 813127 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1337882615 923611 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb, FireFly, Gregor < 1337882631 32803 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1337883162 888145 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337884028 644446 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1337884157 495696 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337884168 146051 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1337884188 663270 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-81-155.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1337884248 197866 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know free shell account provider that lets users run ircbots < 1337884269 650118 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337884278 689151 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1337884574 431575 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1337884693 404854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need to be still alive?-) < 1337884796 778254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it count if it is a free shell provider but has an annual-cost membership tier which allows that? < 1337884842 803466 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :completepy free < 1337884899 745233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, it is still a completely free shell provider (for some users), and it does let (some) users run ircbots, it's just that the two sets of users don't intersect. < 1337884989 309070 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to let free shell accounts run ircbots < 1337885025 441145 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: why not run it from your connection? < 1337885034 257888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1337885113 482508 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337885137 218898 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Song contest? Like #songsincode or something? < 1337885168 919282 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reminds me, there's still a few days left to enter http://code-poems.com < 1337885295 950035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: If IPv6-only IRC is okay, I think geekshells.org maybe? Haven't tried, but their front page mentions precompiled eggdrops. < 1337885330 424501 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133410.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337885339 296497 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: freenode requires SASL from users of my ISP < 1337885365 14329 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well I have my own ircbot coded in python < 1337885377 563307 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: what does that mean < 1337885434 698326 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: freenode block users of my ISP if their irc client/bots don't use SASL < 1337885553 897811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: You could get a v6 tunnel and run your IRC thing over that. (It's what I do at the moment, since they started doing that for my ISP too, and the bouncer I've been using doesn't do SASL.) < 1337885589 284989 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you also use elisa? < 1337885613 324690 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sasl hard to implement? < 1337885621 487107 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does [calamari VERSION] meaŋ < 1337885626 969406 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes < 1337885638 861863 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked your client version < 1337885656 871865 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your client responded: -nortti_- VERSION AndroIRC - Android IRC Client (3.3.4 - Build 54a08b6-) - http://www.androirc.com < 1337885657 986277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: Yes. < 1337885667 727444 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wht? < 1337885673 441939 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why? < 1337885679 921054 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1337885729 355873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not all *that* hard, based on the length (not terribly long) of the xchat/irssi SASL patches freenode distributes. (Still, it... might be a file before I can manage to do that for fungot.) < 1337885740 466958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/patches/scripts/ < 1337885743 702493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even a patch. < 1337885801 219506 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. but getting it to work is another thing. I have even more reasons to hate perl now < 1337885805 37391 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like there are a few free sasl implementations for python out there too < 1337885856 277062 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: if something under BSD/ISC/MIT/CC0/WTFPL shows up tell me < 1337885919 535877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the XChat scripts is in Python. Though admittedly it's GPL'd and they say it's broken by some Debian/Ubuntu patch, which is kinda weird. < 1337885974 921305 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I don't really like GPL <=2 and hate GPL 3 < 1337886010 618725 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :must work for microsoft < 1337886032 792274 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. They are jusr toi restrictive < 1337886068 566707 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1337886102 901166 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fan of GPL but nowadays I use WTFPL < 1337886264 731568 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think that calling linux distr < 1337886281 452604 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+os GNU/linux distros is stupid < 1337886317 589064 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :next step: FSF says linux has to be called stalmaniz < 1337887573 93630 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling it GNU/Linux is not a matter of politics, just basic correctness < 1337887590 552776 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i frequently have occasion to talk about GNU tools on other kernels, as well as other userland on Linux < 1337887774 7882 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it kinda makes sense but calling distro that has gcc+binutils as only gnu software GNU/Linux is stupid < 1337887797 378625 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :People DON'T call distros that have only gcc+binutils GNU/Linux. < 1337887801 554692 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of that matter of basic correctness. < 1337887808 331320 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most "Linux distros" have a lot more GNU software than that < 1337887830 936109 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly *why* FSF cares what you call it! < 1337887834 360183 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually the most compelling reason to use the term, to disambiguate the vast majority of distros from those few unique ones. GNU/Linux = GNU userland, Android is not GNU/Linux. < 1337887869 195107 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're ignoring many of their contributions < 1337887915 315858 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: they don't? explain SliTaz GNU/Linux < 1337887950 774716 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what libc does SliTaz use? < 1337887953 125894 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what coreutils? < 1337887991 590861 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: glibc, busybox. and it doesn't include gcc and binutils on normal install < 1337888008 95651 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they use glibc < 1337888030 569429 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc is a pretty major component, already on its way to being quite reasonably "GNU/" < 1337888107 808032 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to like GNU project, but refusing to acknowledge their contributions as a way to stick it to RMS is just churlish < 1337888123 537046 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a major component but still just one component. Should I call my distro jmld MUSL/Linux < 1337888132 933736 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up “churlish”.
< 1337888133 206885 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like < 1337888164 883800 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: If you're only using gcc and binutils, you're about as GNU as BSD. :) < 1337888176 559717 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: I don't care if you do or not < 1337888195 905201 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I see someone in another channel call it "MUSL/Linux" i'm not going to be like "hey call it Linux, fuck that nortti_ guy" < 1337888263 629703 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have nothing against them. I just don't like their licenses and that they want everyone to call every linux distro containing even a tiny bit of GNU software GNU/Linux < 1337888399 659738 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably would find it perfectly reasonable for SliTaz to call themselves something else. They're at best a border case. But it's not at all ambiguous for the vast, vast majority of distros. < 1337888639 907746 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.27.253 PART :#esoteric < 1337888712 979786 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you really want to call linux distro that has gcc+binutils+gnu coreutils+glibc GNU/Linux go for it but I still think it is kinda stupid. If it had something like 25% of software made by GNU I would use GNU/Linux < 1337888725 910762 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1337888743 710443 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb to put a number on it < 1337888754 593882 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, i recognize the contribution of GNU, and I personally choose to acknowledge it < 1337888766 633495 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to like go into #ubuntu and yell at them all for saying "Linux" < 1337888836 162516 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337888841 864780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to pick a fight, as RMS would, and as you did < 1337888877 609266 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know recognizing GNU's contribution to open source software does not require agreeing with every crazy thing the FSF says < 1337888881 512582 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even particularly like the GPL < 1337888898 933817 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ny distro is GNU/Busybox/MUSL/Linux < 1337889059 986321 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah. they have done much good for open source but also mach bad for it < 1337889093 545038 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there is more good things they have done < 1337889148 700830 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see the big picture.. just how good is the best unix system? < 1337889159 900169 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 good < 1337889183 414745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sees the answer but add sthis anyway) that the free alternative takes this much work < 1337889197 541361 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is not as good < 1337889235 993662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gnu/linux not as good as the best existing unix? < 1337889257 885133 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you're doing < 1337889258 703364 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it depends on how good the best unix is < 1337889260 333167 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a mysterious question < 1337889266 859193 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Linux is something like a 17 < 1337889269 605600 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the standard goodness scale < 1337889274 496210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1337889283 466117 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mysterious question because it's a stupid question ;P < 1337889285 401621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone even pay for unix anymore then? < 1337889290 644311 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things aren't ranked according to a clear goodness scale < 1337889331 645696 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe for privacy i guess < 1337889366 243621 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit offtopic but original unixen are free currently < 1337889370 426958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, out of what? < 1337889370 701002 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should look these things up and not ask the dumb questions < 1337889444 877784 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by "GNU/Linux" you mean that you compile upstream sources and run those, then it's a disaster for security < 1337889445 425754 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I said, on the standard scale < 1337889458 522632 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Linux kernel devs don't even keep track of which commits are security-relevant < 1337889463 696290 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I think they deliberately obfuscate it < 1337889465 610882 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like asking < 1337889481 912451 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"out of what?" when somebody tells you it's 16 o'clock < 1337889487 500353 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a distribution to keep track of security, and to backport security fixes so you don't need a full upgrade < 1337889514 98386 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and based on paying a lot of attention to this for a while, Red Hat does a much better job than any of the distros you can get for free < 1337889693 274406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1337889718 140612 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CentOS will get you those updates for free, but only after months of delay < 1337889749 769833 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who was born in the year 2000 will have some confusion over why their world is linux mac and windows < 1337889756 647450 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel sorry for them < 1337889802 387993 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what do yo mean? < 1337889812 607698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't make much sense < 1337889914 878976 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it make more sense for people not born in year 2000? < 1337890005 229819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it won't occur to them that windows is an attempt to cash in on the idea of GUI, and linux and/or GNU/linux is a free(or freer?) version of some programmers workbench(wiki) < 1337890021 951314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would just have to invent their own idea of what linux and windows are < 1337890059 750857 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are barely coherent < 1337890165 500425 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: occured for my little sister born in 2000 and for me born in 1997 < 1337890182 434802 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: you were born in 1997? < 1337890200 972788 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1337890203 366261 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1337890210 420311 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1337890214 307637 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel old < 1337890239 765127 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when were you born? < 1337890265 826437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, a post-Windows 95 birth is kinda weird, yes. < 1337890323 354374 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1337890329 165447 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: 1988 < 1337890331 207727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just is. < 1337890333 903417 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 10 years before you < 1337890342 837465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I feel old when younger people say "I feel old", like now. < 1337890347 383747 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's form a 1988 club < 1337890351 958563 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bein' born like it's the 80s < 1337890369 295683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being born is so 80s, no-one gets born nowadays. < 1337890513 510693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: shaddap, whippersnapper < 1337890525 15705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was kind of waiting for that. < 1337890528 484935 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some simple replacement for /dev/dsp? < 1337890546 216158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? you want to send raw PCM data to the sound card? < 1337890551 923874 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at sox and play < 1337890598 556997 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah.. it's kinda sad that ability is gone now < 1337890602 512086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, if you have code written for a /dev/dsp, 'padsp' LD_PRELOAD-emulates it with Pulse. < 1337890725 375375 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by gone and when? < 1337890815 111369 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti_: gone meaning /dev/dsp no longer exists < 1337890849 587787 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :from since when? Slitaz seems to still have it < 1337890873 550845 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read SICP at some point < 1337890962 281807 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did the remove it? I still want to be able to drive other people crazy with find / > /dev/dsp < 1337891046 341850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a great loss to harassment technology < 1337891410 102969 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Beat Linux devs a bit. < 1337891414 161344 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause ALSA suuucks. < 1337891429 520493 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound on linux :D < 1337891479 705606 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never had problem with it. but then again I have only used IBMs and POMIs < 1337891740 397414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: well its weird cos when i was young 8bit NES was this exciting thing.. and infact the first game we got for it was pinball.. and stayed up all night playing that.. < 1337891764 707789 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next day xmas day our relatives had been told about this NES thing we have so were able to get even more games < 1337891770 427401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a very whoa kind of day < 1337891801 326721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up till that point most exciting possession would have been the slotcars < 1337892121 316022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for operating systems, i had some version of dos with qbasic1.0 included, then windows 3.1, we probably had win 95 i can't even remember, then win98SE, < 1337892176 55524 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and video games, i had pretty much stopped playing them by the time your sister born :-D < 1337892293 153896 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: My first computer was also DOS machine (well it also had win95 but after I learned how to use dos I preferred CLI over GUI. < 1337892474 807525 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have always been hanging around the low ens < 1337892479 626522 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&end < 1337892492 29310 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/&/*/ < 1337892595 627950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1337892989 229162 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should :) < 1337893010 379113 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dsp was never a great interface < 1337893017 231427 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use ioctls to set the sample rate etc. < 1337893021 390433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copyright a db schema, right? < 1337893022 32090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1337893030 709202 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that sense, piping to 'play' is more convenient < 1337893038 589110 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1337893056 296610 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337893118 855268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:04:31: well, it makes some sort of sense to have the key with the rest of the source on their dev machines, because it's part of what you need to actually build and release the extension < 1337893133 528884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree, developers shouldn't have access to an important production-use private key... < 1337893148 701610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's a chrome-extension-signing key < 1337893151 409405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I stand by that, still < 1337893188 739206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also note the second Yahoo! employee reply right after the OP, who goes by the name: "?" - likely an abbreviation for "Yahoo?"." < 1337893192 304034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooooooooah < 1337893204 447980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1337893230 623635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:01: but still, a valid private key for Yahoo! is the sort of thing that criminals would find quite valuable < 1337893234 192504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not /that/ valuable < 1337893254 442421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it lets you do is write a browser extension that people think Yahoo wrote for the next 5 minutes before Google special-case it < 1337893276 176927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:15: -!- cheater has joined #esoteric. < 1337893276 371107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:15: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +b cheater*!*@*.adsl.alicedsl.de < 1337893276 371300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:15: -!- ChanServ has kicked cheater from #esoteric: User is banned from this channel < 1337893281 952758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about persistent < 1337893341 328064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:52: Was a way to go protected -> real ever introduced? < 1337893347 457046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, and you can use it for "unreal mode" < 1337893359 299735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In x86 computing, unreal mode, also big real mode, huge real mode, or flat real mode, is a variant of real mode, in which one or more data segment registers have been loaded with 32-bit addresses and limits." < 1337893552 116806 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133410.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1337893959 895174 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1337894000 976936 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.4chan.org/vg/src/1337824725371.png < 1337894331 106476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:36:24: OS dev is not a CS subject, right? < 1337894331 341100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:36:31: So what sort of thing is it? < 1337894334 578205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :software engineering? < 1337894616 644502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "interiour" a valid spelling in any dialcet? < 1337894617 743369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dialect < 1337894633 318254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/interiour Apparently. < 1337894665 424251 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intereour < 1337894674 500345 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :British spelling is so complicated even Brits don't know how to do it. < 1337894690 615412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, in this case it's Australian English. < 1337894702 311737 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australiuan < 1337894712 997321 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commonwealth spelling is so complicated even Brits don't know how to do it. < 1337894872 397336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :interious decouration < 1337894908 378014 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops < 1337894924 781282 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meant to post that somewhere else. < 1337894969 579850 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone wrote a Scheme interpreter in LSL < 1337894988 820498 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally just fix it up to be usable for general scripts in SL < 1337895179 500944 :nortti_!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1337895396 806246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kmc! < 1337895398 158619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need a map which can contain arbitrary values as long as their types are of the same typeclass." < 1337895419 677811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke is that they don't actually want that. < 1337895423 681403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1337895430 434539 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already thought of a solution < 1337895463 546970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "I" and "thought" are slight exaggerations < 1337895883 306290 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1337895984 552178 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337896057 147662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1337896158 873293 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"interiour" < 1337896162 907802 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you kidding me X-D < 1337896237 603076 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just kidding we might also say just joshing. i dunno which country that originates but its used in australia < 1337896250 117748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's in Crawl's los.cc :P < 1337896274 685007 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: "Joshing" in that meaning was not uncommon in the US a few decades ago. < 1337896290 33728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top result says < 1337896292 770043 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Just joshing you" came from the late 1800's and has a very interesting story behind it! Josh Tatum was a deaf mute, but a very enterprising young man from the" < 1337896295 460640 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I can point to a line in MLP that uses it, and that's Canadian ;) < 1337896387 107300 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_term_just_joshing_you_come_from < 1337896394 542842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a pretty cool story < 1337896538 949596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers asking the obvious question
< 1337897338 218322 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok why TF is a stupid wrapper around an HTML renderer taking up so much memory < 1337897449 666415 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-10.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] HTML renderer [...] memory < 1337897496 993811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337897539 489008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1337897675 583904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the answer to the obvious question was "yes". < 1337897761 607350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i didn't even have to google, just follow a couple of links) < 1337898435 381919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the obvious question. < 1337898457 653796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is that answer joshing us?" < 1337898486 886546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1337898539 570227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the term is older than the events in the story, whether or not the story is true. < 1337898559 503619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337899154 824466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm sad the story isn't true < 1337899158 292773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1337899239 350835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives elliott a lollipop
< 1337899250 467789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- so upset < 1337899252 378133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :------O < 1337899308 469143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks more like a staff < 1337899670 710112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1337899821 896156 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1337899870 801529 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A staff of lollipop. < 1337899877 937597 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1337899906 364863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*A +1 staff of lollipop. < 1337899977 33862 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A -O staff of lollipop. < 1337900006 699368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wished for 99 blessed greased fixed +42 staffs of lollipop
< 1337900012 129752 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD95BF2.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337900159 232221 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1337900934 455703 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1337901122 345397 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-139.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1337901122 580972 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-139.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1337901122 581111 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1337901313 624523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nethack.alt.org&curid=2459&diff=78074&oldid=74669 < 1337901318 106605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NOW YOU'RE EVEN MORE FAMOUS. < 1337901644 708044 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG < 1337901646 835049 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI ELLIOTT < 1337901822 421395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: What do quarterstaves of speed do? < 1337901855 947193 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like quarterstaves, < 1337901857 55118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but faster < 1337901867 181180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i use a +2,+1 quarterstaff of speed < 1337901870 360016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im ddak that's going to cast spelles < 1337901875 347708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i have an axe < 1337901894 46540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think speed is something like 2x speed but in dcss at least they have slightly nerfed damage uhh < 1337901906 848482 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think also in dcss qstaves got buffed though so < 1337901909 554293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a - a +2,+2 dwarven hand axe (weapon) < 1337901909 748441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : g - a +2,+1 quarterstaff of speed < 1337901910 253018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1337901911 105038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`choices' < 1337901916 714420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use the qstaff < 1337901919 699134 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: choices': not found < 1337901920 19566 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's worse < 1337901947 81793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should be a DDAK stabber. < 1337901952 986888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who also does spells. < 1337902123 237294 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: choices': not found < 1337902125 226925 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaah < 1337902126 246012 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So deep < 1337902502 594412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1337902889 585855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/gjesteserie/morketid/ (i don't _think_ you need to understand the text...) < 1337903076 253428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway let that be a warning to everyone to do careful testing of their time travel devices. < 1337903181 972946 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: DID YOU HEAR THAT < 1337903186 560911 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'M FAMOUS? < 1337903192 276025 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-209-2.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1337903193 720964 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: U+261D < 1337903204 107578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1337903215 395695 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DID YOU HEAR THAT I'M FAMOUS? < 1337903252 680904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHITE UP POINTING INDEX? THAT'S RACIST < 1337903293 85414 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unicode doesn't have BLACK UP POINTING INDEX. :-( < 1337903332 433556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is racist, check < 1337903438 483085 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason it has BLACK LEFT POINTING INDEX and BLACK RIGHT POINTING INDEX, but not UP or DOWN. < 1337903440 498225 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so weird. < 1337903450 100921 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ☺ ☻ < 1337903467 651182 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AND RACIST < 1337903512 343559 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :😱 < 1337903517 107689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART :#esoteric < 1337903606 299164 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1337903709 942046 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you famous shachaf < 1337903723 300320 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ask elliott. < 1337903729 69838 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:15 shachaf: http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nethack.alt.org&curid=2459&diff=78074&oldid=74669 < 1337903731 983853 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:15 shachaf: NOW YOU'RE EVEN MORE FAMOUS.