00:04:15 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4702.html 00:22:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:30:16 ais523> C++,C--,C#,Cω,C♫, C₀ and C! are already taken, might I recommend "C-:"? It looks something like a smiley face. 00:30:22 Strangely, not Cflat 00:30:42 kmc: did you decide if Touch is good or bad 00:40:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:57:05 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:00:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:15:04 -!- madbr has joined. 01:40:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:43:50 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:59:21 -!- mrdragons has joined. 02:12:05 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 02:12:44 -!- cheater__ has joined. 02:15:14 -!- elliott has joined. 02:29:13 Something I was trying to think of with WizardCard, for example in Magic: the Gathering you may have a card with effect: Enchanted permanent gains "{0}: Destroy ~". Note in this case what the tilde refers to! So when converting into a computer code, the macro has to know what it is doing! 02:32:32 !! 02:32:49 For example if it eventually becomes: grant(read(this,attachee),activated(free,destroy(tilde))) and then it has to expand the "tilde" macro. Possibly by using some kind of lambda so that the parameter can be replaced at runtime by the current "this"? I don't know exactly how. 02:34:43 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/thjko/oh_ghc/ why is this a submission 02:34:43 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 02:37:55 Arn't higher order functions enough? 02:37:58 Why do you need macros? 02:43:47 Madoka-Kaname: Higher order functions are useful but macros are also useful for different purpose. 02:43:58 There are some things one will do which the other won't. 02:44:06 (Both ways) 02:44:12 Why would you use a macro here? 02:45:31 activated :: Cost -> (Context -> Context) -> Ability 02:45:42 Madoka-Kaname: Well, even the code I gave would result from the expansion of a few macros; but I am using some macro just for what I have thought. 02:46:26 But, yes, your type would be essentially it; well, the second parameter might differ somehow, or maybe not... 02:48:13 grant :: Permanent -> Ability -> Permanent 02:48:14 etc 02:48:22 Maybe even 02:49:06 data Ability = Triggered (Context -> Bool) (Context -> Context) | Activated Cost (Context -> Context) 02:49:07 Or something 02:49:09 To give an example in Haskell where a macro would work but a function won't do, is: let { f g = either g g } in f :: (b -> c) -> Either b b -> c; let { f g = either length length } in f :: t -> Either [a] [a1] -> Int; if f were a macro in the first case then you could do like the second one too since their types fail to match 02:50:43 Madoka-Kaname: I think those are a bit too simple; for example, these parameters are not necessarily pure values since first you need to calculate them in context (and there may be rules to override the context), and then this "grant" also needs to count as a (static) ability, etc 02:51:35 Which means it need to allow overriding and other things, some which can be done by monads others which help partially by macros too 02:56:27 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:04:14 -!- TeruFSX2 has changed nick to TeruFSX. 03:11:40 Consider an Inform 7 program such as "Instead of taking the telephone booth, kill the player." But, this is a global rule. In Magic: the Gathering, there might be effects on cards that act somewhat like this, and even these ones can be overridden; global rules can also be overridden. 03:25:02 Gregor: you wrote the music to this game's title screen, right? http://armorgames.com/play/13225/pretentious-game 03:27:32 _n - a cursed -5 ring of strength (left claw) 03:27:36 yuo're horible corl 03:29:30 anybody know a good non-distance-weighted pathfinding algorithm 03:30:01 TeruFSX: What are you making? 03:30:15 basically a browsable point-connected map 03:31:28 i think i'll look somewhere more appropriate 03:31:57 only know sound stuff, not AI 03:37:03 TeruFSX: Can't you just use A* :P 03:37:14 uh yes 03:44:27 * tswett attempts to rip the music that was definitely written by Gregor and not by somebody else. 03:48:08 gregor writes music? :D 03:50:23 http://codu.org/music/ 03:51:09 Gregor definitely writes music, such as the acclaimed Opus 11, as well as such pieces as Opus 10 and Opus 13. 03:52:01 Implying 11 is better than 13. 03:52:04 (Okay, I don't remember 11.) 03:52:22 Opus 11 is one of the best thousand songs I've ever heard. 03:52:38 Opus 11 is . . . the best thousand songs I've ever heard. 03:52:41 aha he uses opus numbers :o 03:52:49 tswett: That's a pretty low standard. 03:53:16 If you don't know what else to call it, you use opus numbers, isn't it? 03:53:26 Instead of taking the telephone booth, kill the player. 03:53:34 As far as play counts go, Opus 11 is tied for... 252nd. 03:53:47 Say, what's that one song? 03:53:48 zzo: why not filenames :D 03:54:02 hi tswett 03:54:03 That goes da (da-da-da) da (da da) da (da-da-da) da (da da) and so on? 03:54:15 madbr: But you would still need to decide something such as filenames too 03:54:15 5553 03:54:22 hi madbr 03:54:23 4442 03:54:29 Oh right, "Hardlyquin". 03:54:39 true 03:56:18 -!- elliott has left. 03:56:19 dunno about his "electronic music", his piano stuff is nice tho yeah :D 03:56:43 * tswett looks at the songs he has played 19 times. 03:56:48 Yes, all of these songs are exactly equally good. 03:58:40 hmm yeah the solo piano stuff is a lot better :D 03:59:09 weird, I thought when you could compose well for one you could do it for the other... oh well :D 04:05:07 anyone else composes in here? :D 04:05:34 madbr: I have written some music in QBASIC 04:07:58 and zzt? :D 04:10:10 wonder what my music would look transcribed 04:10:22 probably hard to play stuff with jumps all over the place :D 04:19:37 the mind revealing itself to itself 04:20:22 well, no it's just that it's composed to sound good on computer, not be easy to play :3 04:20:28 so often it's kinda fast etc 04:23:05 Yes, also ZZT, but also QBASIC. Some music I have written is in Bohlen-Pierce I wrote a subroutine for QBASIC called "PlayBP" which is like the built-in PLAY but with Bohlen-Pierce notes 04:26:00 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:26:11 WriterT (Product (Ratio Integer)) [] is one way to represent a probability distribution in Haskell, I would think!! (You can then sort and combine and whatever else, afterward) 04:30:15 Derptal 2 http://imgur.com/a/x9qTF 04:31:35 For doing the macro expansion in WizardCard I have decided this might work: type Expander = StateT [Declaration] []; How well do you think? (It would sometimes have multiple possible expansions, some of which may eventually fail; and is also possible for macros to add new declarations) 04:32:05 (And to read other declarations, affect declaration in other ways too, etc) 04:36:48 Do you know if Pascal compiler to target LLVM exists? 04:43:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 04:43:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:50:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:06:40 "madbr so often it's kinda fast etc" how fast? 05:08:52 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 05:09:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:09:26 -!- elliott has joined. 05:09:38 DID U KNO THAT IN C ARRAYS ARE POINTERS. ALSO I = I++ + I++ CAUSES I TO BECOME 4 05:09:50 WELKOM TO INFORMATION SUPERHEIGHWAY 05:09:52 No matter what I's previous value was. 05:09:52 -!- elliott has left. 05:10:20 -!- elliott has joined. 05:10:22 fizzie: YES INDEED. 05:10:32 Actually I just realise now that 4 is a plausible result if i starts as 0 there. :( 05:10:43 Well, sort of, anyway. 05:10:48 Wait, no, it isn't. 05:11:08 It's perfectly plausible. 05:11:38 But arrays aren't pointers. :-( 05:11:39 Any result is plausible for a sufficiently flexible 'plausible'. 05:12:15 i = i++ + i++; /* i becomes a picture of a dog */ 05:12:52 Maybe a sizeof(i)*CHAR_BIT-pixel black-and-white dog. 05:13:03 Gah, I put in parentheses there. :( 05:13:14 I meant to say (sizeof i)*CHAR_BIT, I think. 05:13:19 sizeof ((i)*CHAR_BIT) 05:13:34 fizzie: No, it doesn't become a numerical representation of a picture of a dog. 05:13:36 It becomes a picture of a dog. 05:13:48 printf("%d\n", i); /* prints a picture of a dog to the screen */ 05:13:52 Even on text-only displays. 05:14:19 Did I mention I got *TWO* responses from Knuth about my email? 05:14:51 Were the responses saying completely opposite things? If so, that does perhaps not bode well for further volumes. 05:15:13 No, one was a followup. 05:15:20 Also one was handwritten, the other emailed. 05:26:32 Do you know God is a crazy woman? I don't. 05:26:47 ok 05:29:37 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:32:09 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:41 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:33:10 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:37:57 https://twitter.com/#!/Marinmenyo/status/200628420789547010/photo/1 05:38:43 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:40:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:46:08 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:07:01 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:22:05 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:38:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:48:38 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:51:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:55:17 Has PH been online at all recently? 06:55:18 Ph 06:55:29 pH 06:56:26 PHP 06:57:02 he's in ireland 06:58:51 elliott: Do you pronounce “via a” (as in “via a connection”) as “viaRa”? 06:59:01 a pause is not "r"! 07:00:39 That’s what i thought, but in Look Around You the guy pronounces it like that and when i asked another British guy about it (some years ago) he confirmed that’s how it’s pronounced. Also, wouldn’t using a pause sound something like “viatta” to a Brit? 07:00:40 viar a? 07:00:50 it's concievable 07:02:17 monqy: this would be a good learndb entry for me why are 10 people watching elliott die to a beetle 07:02:38 maybe Sgeo will add it 07:03:17 elliott, when will you get W:A working? 07:09:10 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:10:17 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 07:10:53 -!- kmc has joined. 07:12:37 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:14:10 Are there some program with some features of Astrolog and other programs, can also plot the International Space Station's coordinates, and coordinates of camera satellites (such as Google Earth), set camera angles of objects, set various other parameters, etc. Another possible feature would be dynamic orb angles based on apparent diameters and other things 07:21:34 The "Stellarium" program has a satellite plugin (including ISS) that knows how to calculate the coordinates, but Stellarium itself is more of a "look at the sky" program than "calculate things about the sky" one. (And I doubt there really are any "Google Earth" satellites; I'd suppose there's at least two levels of companies between Google and the satellites.) 07:21:58 Anyway, celestrak.com is about tracking satellite positions, I think they've got some software links too. 07:22:13 (That's where Stellarium's plugin gets its information from.) 07:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:31:31 Astrolog is missing a few report formats (one thing missing certainly is that although it can print calendars; it lacks the feature to include any data on the calendars), but it does do many things that other programs don't have. Just a similar program but with other features too, as well as the way to combine them, would help. 07:31:52 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:32:15 fizzie: Do you have the satellite positions on your computer? 07:33:19 Do you know what the coordinates of ISS are? 07:39:39 elliott: 03:13 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5867126092237181778 07:39:41 elliott: 02:16 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229002293145728844 07:39:51 what 07:47:02 monqy: do you want to hear jokes 07:47:03 fast naga 07:47:07 ha ha ha 07:47:56 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 07:48:06 @@ @echo @echo @echo HA 07:48:06 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "ion!ion@heh.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA"]} rest:"echo; msg: 07:48:06 IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"ion!ion@heh.fi\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA\"]} rest:\"echo; msg: 07:48:06 IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo HA\ 07:48:06 \\"]} rest:\\\"HA\\\"\"" 07:49:15 zzo38: Does the International Space Station affect your luck in romance or gambling? 07:49:51 ion: Not unless you are betting on or marrying someone living there. 07:50:37 depending on what its position was at the point you moved from the inside of the womb to the outside. 07:51:10 -!- cheater has joined. 07:51:27 ion: In that case, I highly doubt it. 07:52:03 (At first I thought you meant the current date/time; which is what my first answer was based on) 07:52:03 Ah, it’s excluded from the list of objects in the sky behave like that? 07:52:05 +that 07:52:52 monqy: 4.1 is hard 07:53:06 yes 07:53:23 elliott: Any comments about the pronunciation in the videos? 07:53:31 No objects in the sky behave like that, as far as I am concerned. But if you like to do so, you can assign what they mean to you according to synchronicity (the subjective grouping of events; as opposed to causality which is the objective grouping) if you have nothing else to do. 07:54:26 zzo38: I was just wondering what Astrolog would do with the location of ISS. 07:54:36 ion: I didn't watch. 07:54:38 monqy: Have you played 4.1? 07:54:41 You should play 4.1. 07:55:01 I’m plortal 2. 07:55:04 But there is possibly the case of indirect effects from whatever, possibly psychological effect from superstition, possibly lighting conditions, and once the king was scared to death by an eclipse, so such things are not completely impossible. 07:55:46 II'v tried it 07:55:51 ion: Well, it would simply plot its location on whatever reports you want. Interpretation text could be given too; but you would probably not use the ISS in interpretation reports. 07:55:54 not gotten very far 07:56:45 (Astrolog does allow full customization of interpretation texts, so it is possible someone might do something with that) 08:01:07 "I now know what this world is missing. There needs to be some sort of natural law whereby anyone who writes a substantial amount of crap eventually dies in fires started by their own software." 08:01:14 monqy: what are you writing a denotational semantics for :o 08:01:28 For example, on the astro-graph you could plot its position above the Earth on a map of the world, on the horizon view you can determine its azimuth/altitude, and on the horoscope you can plot its ecliptic longitude, and there are many other reports available too. 08:01:57 nothing!!! i'm not writing a denotational semantics i'm near falling asleep. if i was writing a denotational semantics though it would be a secret 08:02:09 monqy: i don't like secrets!!! 08:02:14 "too bad" 08:02:34 monqy: it'll gnaw at me!!! 08:02:44 it's hurting with pain monqy 08:02:57 more pain: i've already written small-step and big-step operational semantics for it 08:03:02 more pain: by written i mean in coq 08:03:09 can you feel it 08:03:11 the gnawing 08:03:21 :'( 08:03:36 is it your language you're going to write your roguelike in 08:03:42 no 08:03:43 (imo a very likely guess) 08:03:47 what!!! literally impossible 08:04:21 monqy: but what IS it!!!!! 08:04:25 a secret 08:04:37 monqy: when will it stop being secret 08:04:43 it will never stop 08:04:54 unless you like stalk me and find my name on a paper or something idk 08:04:55 no 08:04:56 nooooo 08:05:13 can you feel the tears inside my eyes 08:05:14 my name isn't on any papers yet don't even try 08:06:47 monqy: but what 08:06:47 is 08:06:49 it : ' ( 08:07:02 a secret 08:07:05 it's not even my own project 08:07:26 "universety researche" 08:07:36 it does not help the gnaweing!!! 08:08:40 "It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it." - GK Chesterton 08:09:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:14:42 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:16:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:24:45 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 08:27:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:37:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 08:38:45 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 08:42:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:55:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:56:02 Hell 08:56:22 o 08:56:53 hi Taneb 09:00:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Pushing red button with purple dots and yellow lines is not permitted on Tuesdays, sorry!). 09:04:49 monqy: this game is so much better than dcss wow 09:04:50 it's 09:04:51 hilarious 09:04:57 elliott, which game? 09:05:10 Sgeo: linley's dungeon crawl 4.1 alpha 09:05:19 which caused dcss to exist 09:05:22 (and never got out of alpha) 09:05:28 it's awful 09:05:54 Still haven't got my laptop working 09:09:12 sucks 09:09:16 what's wrong 09:10:13 Grub's messed up 09:10:59 it's not grub that's messed up 09:11:05 it's the whole filesystem 09:11:31 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:11:49 elliott, I can still access my files when I boot from USB 09:12:33 oh you can? 09:12:36 on every partition? 09:13:26 Yes 09:15:41 hmm 09:15:45 it might be fairly easy to repair then 09:15:53 catch me when i'm not watching monqy play 4.1 09:15:57 and i'll try to help you fix it 09:16:53 catch you catch me 09:21:53 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:25:07 monqy: why not daggre :'( 09:25:09 *daggere 09:25:15 it was glowing !! 09:26:21 -!- cheater has joined. 09:28:54 -!- kmc has joined. 09:29:56 monqy: what's V 09:30:01 Vaults 09:30:20 (the branche) 09:30:20 oh 09:30:37 monqy: you have to admit, it's more fun than dcss!!! 09:30:48 not spen :( 09:31:44 monqy: play a mummy!!! 09:34:27 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:35:39 elliott: can I catch you now? 09:35:48 maybe 09:35:52 do you have a linux livecd 09:37:29 USB, yeah 09:38:35 A mute character will communicate with hand-held wooden signs on which are scrawled his comments and questions. 09:38:47 Flipping the sign will often display additional messages often more than the two one would expect from a simple two-sided object. 09:39:01 Well duh 09:39:05 The signs are 4-dimensional 09:39:49 ah so its a 4 dimensional rotation? 09:39:57 like this http://achewood.com/index.php?date=11092005 09:40:47 Taneb: boot it 09:40:55 -!- wareya has joined. 09:41:32 elliott, I'm chatting using it 09:41:39 Taneb: open a terminal 09:41:50 Ok 09:42:01 Taneb: ok do you have the linux partition mounted 09:42:11 Yes 09:42:19 cd to it 09:42:21 (brb one second) 09:43:02 back 09:43:04 Taneb: done? 09:43:10 kmc: that's certainly a quick reply. 09:43:16 elliott: yes 09:43:22 sudo chroot . 09:43:39 K 09:43:40 then 09:43:44 what ubuntu version is it 09:43:49 12.04 09:44:19 oh hmm 09:44:31 ok, close that terminal; install the Boot-Repair program instead (through the package manager) 09:44:34 then click "Recommended repair" 09:44:36 that should automate the grub reinstall 09:44:48 oh, it might not be available in the main repos 09:44:51 try opening a terminal and 09:44:55 sudo add-apt-repository ppa:yannubuntu/boot-repair && sudo apt-get update 09:44:59 sudo apt-get install boot-repair 09:45:01 then run it 09:45:13 also 09:45:21 write down the URL it gives after it repairs it 09:45:29 I think it has information about your system that could be used if it doesn't work 09:46:59 It's got stuck at Reading Package List... 90% 09:47:45 for how long 09:47:46 give it a minute 09:47:54 Just changed to 91% 09:47:57 itidus22: ? 09:48:16 Nevermind, it's completed 09:49:20 I've... 09:49:24 Just ran out of space? 09:49:34 huh? 09:49:40 you _did_ do it in another terminal, right? 09:49:47 Yes 09:49:52 one second 09:50:04 ok show me the exact error please 09:50:13 It's still going 09:50:26 kmc: it took like 1min 10sec after i first mentioned strange flipping signs before you posted the comic reference 09:50:30 what 09:50:42 Ah, just stopped 09:50:48 dpkg: error: failed to link '/var/lib/dpkg/available' to '/var/lib/dpkg/available-old' for backup of available database: No space left on device E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) 09:50:57 hmmmm 09:50:58 can you run 09:50:59 mount 09:51:02 and tell me what it outputs 09:51:21 What's your favourite pastebin? 09:51:28 sprunge.us i guess 09:51:41 mount | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us 09:52:13 Apparantly, I haven't got curl 09:52:31 sigh 09:52:34 just use hpaste or something :P 09:53:04 http://hpaste.org/68376 09:54:23 hmm 09:54:28 how weird 09:54:32 uhhh 09:54:35 try rebooting then running the same commands 09:55:58 Taneb: failing that 09:56:03 look for the repair program in the menus anyway 09:56:03 :P 09:56:17 Okay, bye 09:56:20 -!- Taneb has quit. 09:59:41 itidus22: yes 10:01:42 using my power of google search 10:07:15 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:08:48 cheater_: cheater_ 10:10:45 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:12:28 Hmm, lighting might be inefficient if I do it the way I was going to... 10:20:00 -!- derdon has joined. 10:24:25 -!- rszeno has joined. 10:24:49 hello everybody 10:25:30 hi 10:26:52 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:33:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:34:09 -!- david_werecat has joined. 10:35:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:35:50 Well, that didn't work 10:35:52 Also, Hello! 10:37:58 Taneb: Show me the URL? (In /mgs.) 10:38:00 *msg 10:38:12 elliott: it didn't work at all 10:38:16 I'm making a fresh live usb 10:38:20 That's not very specific. 10:38:23 Did you mean it ran out of space again? 10:38:30 If yes, making a new live medium won't help. 10:39:02 It means I tried to make more space and it went horribly wrong while attempting that 10:39:49 Very well, then. 10:39:57 Oh, right, USB sticks are mutable. 10:40:03 I guess that's why it didn't try to install it to a RAM fs. 10:40:05 Erm. 10:40:06 Yeah. 10:40:09 *FS. 10:40:18 OK, let me know when you have the new live medium booted. 10:40:49 Taneb: You could alternatively download http://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files/, which has it pre-installed. 10:40:57 (And use unetbootin to put it on your USB stick.) 10:41:07 Finished Portal 2. The ending was brilliant. 10:41:45 Right 10:44:03 Finish the weather game. The ending is tight. And also sweet. Or so I hear. 10:47:03 Also didn't Portal 2's user-generated content steam workshop thing just come out? That doesn't sound very finishable. 10:47:04 Weather game? 10:47:14 Sgeo: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/20 10:47:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:48:13 heh 10:48:23 ion, did you do the 2-player thing? 10:48:32 fizzie: The single-player main game, duh. :-P 10:48:42 sgeo: That’s next in TODO. :-) 10:49:08 It doesn't take long. 10:49:36 At least the actual playthrough part. In my case, locating a second player did. 10:50:33 Played through a bit with a random 10:50:40 Played through most of it with a friend 10:52:26 Played through it with the built-in voice thing, and got some comments about how nonsensical it sounds to a third-party observer who's not watching the screen, just having to listen to (one side) of the speaking. 10:52:43 lol 10:55:35 I don't suppose Perpetual Testing Initiative supports the making of coooopy test chambers? 10:57:02 portal 2 co-op is one of the most mentally taxing video game experiences i've had 10:58:02 you have to coordinate motor skills, spatial reasoning, abstract problem solving, and communicating with another person 10:58:22 you have to like make up words to describe the stuff in the level so you can coordinate 10:58:28 :-) 10:59:44 I don't know, I think it went along quite naturally. I suppose it might depend somewhat on the another person, though. 11:01:16 kmc 11:02:39 kmc did you get lisztomania yet 11:02:47 no 11:02:49 it is a maserwork 11:02:54 masterwork too 11:03:01 fizzie: i was kinda drunk too 11:03:10 it beats zardoz 11:03:15 haha 11:03:19 but not el topo 11:03:26 but nearly 11:04:17 I see there's 39690 entries in the thing already, and it's been out, what, three days? 11:04:46 fizzie, in what thing? 11:05:01 Portal 2's community-generated-map steam-workshop thing. 11:05:57 oh 11:09:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:10:17 elliott, installed the ISO on the USB 11:10:28 OK, boot it and use boot-repair. 11:10:53 (It might end up downgrading GRUB, but that'll get fixed the next time Ubuntu updates it.) 11:14:26 Okay, I can't get wifi, it seems 11:14:30 -!- cheater_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 11:14:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:15:06 -!- cheater_ has joined. 11:15:31 Taneb: Doesn't matte.r 11:15:33 *matter. 11:16:40 It needs internet to run the thingy 11:16:41 The red component of the diffuse reflection color. 11:16:53 Taneb: Oh, right. 11:17:00 Taneb: Well... try the Ubuntu live medium again. 11:17:02 So, I've plugged in an ethernet cable 11:17:47 It seems to be working 11:18:36 Yaey. 11:19:25 Together we're invincible 11:19:55 Oooh, url time 11:19:57 Rip. 11:21:21 Let's see if this works 11:21:53 YES 11:21:55 YES 11:21:56 YES 11:21:59 Thank you elliott! 11:22:11 :) 11:22:15 Congraetulationse and yuoruea welcomae 11:23:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:24:17 -!- Taneb has quit. 11:25:47 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:28:56 elliott: Any comments about the pronunciation in the videos? 11:28:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:29:08 I’m curious about the R thing. :-) 11:29:15 ion: I still didn't click them (and probably can't be bothered to unless you relink). 11:29:50 03:13 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5867126092237181778 11:29:53 02:16 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6229002293145728844 11:30:49 ion: Ah, the "viaRa" thing. 11:31:06 I think you'll find that were the narrator to end a sentence with "via", it would sound the same (with the perceived "r"). 11:31:17 Actually, not really. 11:31:33 I'm not sure exactly what's going on there -- you'd have to ask a linguist -- but the "r" seems rather implicit. 11:31:58 -!- const has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:32:00 As in, it's not really there, it's just the two sounds adjacent to each other that end up bridged by one. 11:32:08 * elliott checks the second video. 11:32:16 (You realise Look Around You is on YouTube, right?) 11:32:47 Yeah, it's definitely a quirk of the (deliberately exaggerated) accent. 11:33:22 I just clicked on the first video results for my search terms, they happened to be at video.google.com. :-) 11:33:55 Ask augur. :p 11:34:24 augur: Ask augur. :p 11:35:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:35:38 Hello! 11:35:43 It's beautiful 11:36:09 I'm not. :''''''( 11:36:18 :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''( 11:36:27 elliott: You are beautiful. 11:36:35 Betaful. 11:36:39 :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 11:36:39 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''( 11:36:53 bæutiful 11:37:06 elliott, if I could comment on your beauty, the universe would explode 11:37:14 hålp 11:37:16 elliott: You should prefix that with @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo 11:37:25 @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hjålp 11:37:25 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo @ 11:37:25 echo hj\195\165lp"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"# 11:37:25 esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\195\\165lp\"]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/ 11:37:25 elliott\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\\\195\\\\165lp\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", 11:37:25 msgLBName = \\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\", msgPrefix = \\\\\\\"elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@@ @ 11:37:27 echo @echo @echo @echo hj\\\\\\\\195\\\\\\\\165lp\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\"hj\\\\\\\\195\\\\\\\\165lp\\\\\\\"\\\"\"" 11:37:40 oh dear 11:37:45 @echo foo 11:37:45 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo foo"]} 11:37:45 rest:"foo" 11:38:04 I wonder if saying @print-notices in public would have lambdabot leak @tells to the channel, or if it has prevention against that. 11:38:09 (Not that I'm going to test.) 11:38:28 You could test it in a private channel? 11:38:37 Well, I'd have to make lambdabot join it. 11:38:41 Ah, true 11:38:42 But I suppose I could. 11:39:07 lambdabot: y u so racist 11:39:15 escaping non-ascii characters like they're second-class citizens 11:39:21 You can also “@time” any channel lambdabot is on (and any other channel without +n). 11:39:34 @time #haskell 11:40:01 Answer: yes, @print-notices works in public. 11:40:11 Unless it has a special case for channels with only one person in them!!!! 11:40:37 .@quit 11:40:45 (That felt too scary to even risk a space in front of.) 11:40:51 hah 11:41:52 i'm watching british TV from a youtube video which was captured by a screengrab program from the channel4.com website flash player 11:41:57 hooray computers 11:42:12 Not 4oD? 11:42:16 I have the Look Around You DVDs. 11:42:26 Maybe I should upload them to YouTube in HIGH-DEFINITION. :p 11:42:32 (I assume that's what kmc's watching, given the context, but maybe not.) 11:42:36 Wait, Look Around You is BBC. 11:42:44 My country is complicated. : ( 11:42:47 Hjålp. 11:43:04 Wait, it's "hjälp"? 11:43:05 I should get the LAY DVDs, too. 11:43:09 That's shitty. 11:43:17 Twice the dots! 11:43:20 hjälp sounds Swedish. 11:43:25 hjålp looks funnier, though. 11:43:28 ion: It is. 11:43:41 -!- elliott has set topic: hjålp http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 11:43:43 Hjålp would be pronounced hjolp. 11:43:59 Not in my mind. :( 11:44:08 elliott: no, I'm watching Peep Show 11:44:10 With a hard j or a soft j? 11:44:16 kmc: Same thing. 11:44:32 "Look Around Your DVDs", the show about how to keep your DVD collection in order. 11:44:32 taneb: As in “yes”, i think. 11:44:57 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity512.html 11:46:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: walking dog tiem). 11:47:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:49:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:45 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:51:40 ƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒƒ 11:51:51 †_† 11:51:58 h¡alp 11:52:07 h√alp 11:52:12 ≤hjalp≥ 11:52:25 hjÚlp 11:53:06 http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60DDD0F77698B8EB 11:53:08 <3 <3 <3 11:53:37 Meanwhile in the 2370s https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/542294_467069256642918_122908054392375_2060207_456662483_n.jpg 11:53:41 SimonRC: Hey, you haven't said a single thing in 2012. 11:53:59 SimonRC: Rectify this. 11:54:12 kmc do you ever eat steak? 11:54:46 elliott: He has spoken twice via HackEgo. 11:55:17 Is that like when you contact the dead via a medium? 11:55:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:58:25 Hello 11:58:30 Taneb: More like Benat, rightt? 11:58:31 *right? 11:58:48 Benat and Dvegn. 11:58:48 Oh god how did you know 11:58:58 wat 11:59:20 ≈hjålp≈ 11:59:57 "Taneb" is a reversal of a portmanteau of contractions of my and my brother's names 12:00:23 Oh, is the "nat" for "Nathan"? 12:01:22 -!- _niels has joined. 12:01:43 `welcome _niels 12:01:51 ​_niels: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:01:56 <_niels> thanks, elliott 12:02:11 elliott, yes 12:02:56 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:04:02 <_niels> > 2 + 2 12:04:03 4 12:04:08 <_niels> =] 12:04:49 -!- _niels has left. 12:04:52 > let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs 12:04:53 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... 12:04:55 What, already? 12:05:08 How can you recognise lambdabot and give up on #esoteric that quickly? 12:05:58 ^rainbow hjålp 12:05:58 hjålp 12:06:08 fizzie: Please fix fungot's Unicode support. It's not that hard. :( 12:06:08 elliott: i haven't looked. :p " nanotechnology" " i want") 12:08:32 Install skype, recieve call on skype, skype freezes 12:08:33 :/ 12:11:50 I suppose I should, since it'd just be a single preprocessing step thingie, since the fungespace cells are quite capable of holding any codepoints. 12:12:06 :') 12:12:41 On the other hand, is hjÄ¥lp really so bad? 12:13:58 Yes. 12:14:04 It has completely ruined the purity of the hjålp. 12:14:23 (Technically I must note that it'd also be a postprocessing step thingy.) 12:14:27 But think how much more useful ^ord would become! 12:15:46 fizzie: Maybe I'LL do it. 12:15:50 ^source 12:15:50 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 12:16:04 fizzie: Where's the read loop. :( 12:16:22 Line 56 does the main read. 12:16:41 Though I suppose it could as well go into the bit where it has extracted a full line out. 12:17:08 fizzie: Would that work for: UNICODE USERNAMES? 12:17:24 I suppose I could iterate over all of them or something. 12:17:33 But it seems like it'd be easier to just turn one string into one string. 12:17:56 This is complicated. :( 12:18:01 It's still turning just one string into one string when you do it after it's extracted a single line, before it gets split into fields. 12:18:44 That'd be around line 73; the parts below it expect there to be a single complete line somewhere. 12:19:00 fizzie: Oh, I see what you mean. 12:19:06 Why would it be better to do it there, out of curiosity? 12:19:16 (Also would this break the ^bf interpreter's input?) 12:19:57 I suppose the only reason why it'd be better to do it after line-splitting (as opposed to immediately after the R) is that you wouldn't have to deal with incomplete UTF-8 sequences. 12:21:17 At line 73, there's a single full line on fungespace line 3 that could be deutfied. (Based on the fact that the prefix-looking bit starts with 03g':-.) 12:21:37 "fungespace line 3"? 12:21:54 You know, Y=3, X=0, 1, 2, ... and so on. 12:22:12 Wouldn't that be fungespace line 73? 12:22:14 (But that ^bf thing still worries me.) 12:22:21 *And that, I suppose. 12:22:48 No, I mean, the data is stored on "physical" Y-coordinate 3. 12:23:08 Ah, you mean the line itself? 12:23:10 Yes. 12:23:15 OK. 12:23:19 Where's output done? (And what about bf?!?!?!) 12:23:26 *^bf 12:24:54 I guess you'd need to do something w.r.t. ^bf, yes. I'm not entirely sure what. All the current programs are written in the "one cell, one character" logic. 12:25:11 Hmm, I suppose that's actually what you want, if you want things like ^rainbow to work. 12:25:15 But OTOH, that would break the 8-bitness of it. 12:25:18 Which is unfortunate. 12:25:20 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:25:33 Right. Though I'm not sure if there's anything that really depends on the 8-bit wrapping. 12:25:47 In the existing programs people have used, that is. 12:25:54 Well, it's still nice to have, considering it's the only usable BF interpreter in the channel. 12:26:03 I suppose I could just fix ^rainbow itself. 12:26:14 But knowing how many characters to wait before changing to the next colour in BF sounds... painful. 12:26:19 BF doesn't exactly have bitwise and. 12:26:45 That is a true statement. 12:29:40 As for output, it's slightly more complicated. There are in fact several places that write to the socket. 12:29:57 fungot is rather badly-designed! 12:29:57 elliott: so do we still lack that thing anyway. 12:30:01 fungot: Yes. 12:30:02 elliott: there's not much point. its always visible. only that too bloated is far better, qdb is inexplicably beating it in times. 12:30:13 fungot: You're always visible? 12:30:14 elliott: pygments is great. i cannot find -the- implementation for my first time here, can i make http://paste.phpfi.com/ fnord ( looks like we gonna have fun 12:30:15 Too bloated is far better, yes. 12:30:36 fungot: You apparently can't make it, since that pastebin seems to have died. Are we really gonna have fun? 12:30:43 fizzie: That wasn't 5 lines. 12:31:00 It's supposed to be four, I think. But it wasn't four either. 12:31:18 Maybe you had some leftovers from a previous discussion. 12:31:31 fizzie: Make it speak to me. :( 12:31:38 fungot: Speak to elliott. 12:31:38 fizzie: it doesn't seem to support define-syntax? ( beyond the obvious mere existence of c code) 12:31:47 elliott: Do you support define-syntax? 12:31:54 No. No macros for me. :( 12:31:59 fungot: You were right. 12:31:59 fizzie: multithreading is of course more productive in scheme, avoid set!, how would you fnord it? you can tell 12:32:03 fungot: The mere existence of C code isn't obvious to me! Sent from my @puter 12:32:03 elliott: what scheme system? probably. it'll be crazy and do your own thing" language. but to use a us keyboard mapping 12:32:25 fungot: No, not Scheme; @lang. It is, indeed, a "crazy and does my own thing" language. 12:32:25 elliott: well, maybe i need to 12:32:26 It's much about Scheme today. 12:32:33 fungot: Use @? Yes, you should. It's perfect. 12:32:33 elliott: you know c++? with templates? its just some number of continuations, though, 12:32:49 fungot: No! It's nothing like C++, and templates are an abomination! And what do continuations have to do with this? 12:32:49 elliott: it will work. i'll be here all week. try the --large command-line option. 12:32:55 fungot --large 12:33:07 fungot: You're such a silly. 12:33:07 fizzie: ' you have to go 12:33:12 Oh dear. 12:33:15 fungot: Rebelling against your maker, are we? 12:33:15 elliott: i am in error, by the way, 12:33:26 fungot: Sounds like you're having a breakdown. 12:33:26 elliott: mm-hmm. openbsd does some tricky under-the-hood trickery ( not quite, sorry. :p 12:33:28 In fact it was correct, I *do* have to go. 12:33:39 fungot: The trickery is tricky? Astonishing. 12:33:39 elliott: you, sir)) to use set! anywhere else? 12:33:46 fizzie: I think he's going to mutate you. 12:33:50 *it's 12:33:52 (Sorry, fungot.) 12:33:52 elliott: please input two numbers to get the hostesses released! give them their own lines produces ugly output.) also, did you know 12:33:52 Scary. 12:33:59 fungot: 3 7 12:34:06 fizzie: Don't worry, you're free now. 12:34:23 fungot: You're so irrational. 12:34:23 fizzie: are you a student or professional? " i don't really understand what and how you can interpret it as " the wire" 12:34:41 fungot: Well, he doesn't study, and he's not professional. 12:34:42 elliott: recruit them for me even in rlwrap ( ie doesn't quit) 12:34:50 fungot: You still want to recruit him knowing that? 12:34:50 elliott: so the point is that bill richter interprets incorrectly and out of it. 12:35:03 fungot: Bill Ritcher, eh? 12:35:03 elliott: it ran... i ran upon a problem and found that 99% of them would not be useful 12:35:09 fungot: Technically speaking I guess I am a student. I have a study right and all, I just enrolled the other day. 12:35:10 fizzie: i may be imagining others, though, by about 12% of the us, too. 12:35:12 fungot: It's true, most problems aren't very useful at all. 12:35:12 elliott: don't you have more than one? the interactive fiction language? 12:35:30 fungot: There are... multiple languages for writing interactive fiction in, yes. 12:35:30 elliott: fnord/ fnord/ fnord question 2. polecat, fnord, fnord 12:35:31 Okay, I have to be going out now to see a man about a horse. (Well, no. But anyway.) 12:35:35 fungot: Oh, come on. 12:35:36 elliott: that's a bit more complex, but i think most scheme-c compilers compile for something that isn't c or bash :) ( there's also a function plotter, if i remember 12:36:54 -!- rszeno has left. 12:43:14 -!- derdon has joined. 12:43:34 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:53:25 cheater_: yeah i eat steak 12:53:31 once i cooked a steak sous vide 12:53:32 it was great 12:56:42 do u know how sous vide works cheater_ 12:57:13 as a poor diabetic, the things i crave most of all are fried potato chips and various kinds of kfc chicken pieces 12:58:06 also.. false teeth like movie stars have which are like screwon 12:58:19 i fricken hate toothaches 12:59:28 Well, the creator of Fortress Craft has replied to TWICE as many tweets of mine as the creator of Minecraft 12:59:34 Clearly the former is a superior game 13:00:04 kmc: i have never tried, but i should 13:00:44 i did it with minimal equipment 13:00:50 just a pot of water, a ziploc bag, and a candy thermometer 13:01:30 Taneb: Hmm, DjArcas. Is that the loudmouthed moron they got to promote that thing? 13:01:35 I forget who it was. 13:01:41 But I think it started with "Dj". 13:01:46 the next step up is a beer cooler 13:01:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:02:14 kmc: yeah, i know it's "easy" 13:02:27 elliott, I believe he's also the creator 13:02:28 i don't have a candy thermometer, why do you need that specifically? 13:02:35 speaking of candy 13:02:40 the steak i cooked today was amazing 13:02:47 it was like flesh-flavoured candy 13:03:02 All I remember is reports of him flipping out and calling people gay at the slightest provocation. 13:03:04 Good PR. 13:03:46 i fried it in french orange mustard (nearly like jam/jelly), with red peppers and ginger, and some italian mustard apples 13:03:49 ("The slightest provocation" being "people saying they don't like FortressCraft".) 13:04:04 -!- variable has joined. 13:05:39 Sounds like him, yeah 13:08:27 is fortresscraft better? 13:08:47 It looks nicer 13:09:31 i probably would have bought minecraft if i had online money.. 13:09:34 (For bad values of "better".) 13:09:38 (Especially if you use Painterly on the Minecraft side.) 13:10:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: TIME TO GO). 13:10:15 which is not something i enjoy thinking about today because i just gave my mum all my money, and apparently have to visit both my grandmas for mothers day 13:11:24 and in the back of my mind with games like this im always telling myself i could do this better, and i could be richer from this, if only i was the one who did it 13:13:37 and why are 500% more people registering at minecraft.net than buying the game!?! 13:17:04 cheater_: you need a thermometer because the point of sous vide is to keep the meat at a constant temperature for a long time 13:17:08 so that the inside reaches that temperature 13:17:56 it doesn't need to be a candy thermometer specifically 13:18:27 but you want like a couple °F precision, in the range 130°F to 140°F 13:18:44 cheap candy thermometer has these properties and can be found in a regular grocery store 13:20:35 my life sucks in a first world problems kind of way. if only i could exploit the problems in my life for capitalist gain. 13:21:28 you know what 13:21:35 i have an electric hotplate 13:21:47 i bet you could arduino a sous vide automat 13:22:55 i'll totally do it once i can buy a power relay 13:23:29 yes 13:23:42 relay is easy, you probably want feedback though 13:23:57 the feedback is the thermometer 13:24:00 and the fagduino 13:24:21 i tried to build a temperature controller for another project but i fried the thermocouple driver chip due to failure to read datasheet 13:24:24 however it's not hard in principle 13:24:58 could this be my unique chance to do something useful with a PID 13:25:21 that was for soldering oven temperatures and so a thermocouple was probably the right answer 13:25:21 wonders if fried the thermocouple almost counts as a pun in the topic of cooking 13:25:42 http://arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary 13:25:45 haha 13:25:53 "processing.org frontend" 13:26:02 yeah, i can create a sous vide visualization 13:26:09 for sous vide temperatures you could use a 1-wire temperature sensor like DS18B20 13:26:14 and veejay it to remote places via direct isdn uplink 13:26:29 even on sparkfun it's only $10 in a sealed package: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11050 13:26:29 how do you know so much about electronics kmc 13:27:17 and that will interface directly to any microcontroller 13:27:21 i should do this 13:27:25 you should 13:27:27 i already have the heating element too 13:27:28 for great glory 13:27:37 i was dreading it because i forgot it would be much easier than the thermocouple thing 13:27:40 why not make it work with a hotplate 13:28:11 hm this one suggests a rice cooker 13:28:27 hotplate is easier, because more people have one and it's cheap and small 13:28:39 more approachable for people 13:28:51 rice cooker is too small to hold multiple large steaks 13:28:54 a rice cooker is a fairly specific utensil you normally don't have 13:28:55 yea 13:28:59 i think i'll go for the beer cooler with the heating element i already have 13:29:10 that too, i was just going to say you could just use a big pot 13:29:11 which won't be enough to get it up to temp 13:29:11 hmm 13:29:14 beer cooler? 13:29:21 but should keep it at temp 13:29:25 so i will just fill it with hot water to start 13:29:36 i wouldn't be so sure 13:29:52 from experience, heating stuff is a thing that either works or doesn't 13:29:55 i don't know if "beer cooler" is the right term 13:30:06 i mean like those insulated plastic bins you pack with ice and beer 13:30:10 there's no way to "give it a shove" 13:30:19 ice chest? 13:30:33 yeah 13:30:46 something like this http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1342596&cp=11925755.2614192 13:31:00 -!- nortti has joined. 13:31:45 ice chest 13:32:04 or yeah, just Rubbermaid® Victory Cooler 13:32:18 hey kmc, what do u think of my idea 13:32:31 i was looking at alsa paints last night when i couldn't sleep 13:32:36 and i noticed they have a rubberizing paint 13:32:44 so: keyboard with rubberized keycaps? 13:32:55 "Like" or "Fail"? 13:33:17 i would have to try it cheater 13:33:39 yeah, i think so too 13:33:49 but like, rubberized knobs on equipment are the dog's bollocks 13:34:09 and they use this paint for cutlery and other daily use stuff, so it's not something that'll wear off 13:34:52 these coolers are pretty well insulated so I think a small heater should suffice to maintain temperature 13:35:22 i wish they had ratings in watts per kelvin or whatever 13:35:42 notice "pretty well insulated" still means if you have ice in it then it'll melt fairly quickly 13:35:59 you'd need a heater which can at least withstand the amount of energy being expelled 13:36:22 which is probably very near to the heater that you need to heat it up in the first place 13:36:31 why not just buy a 10 bucks hotplate? 13:36:53 sounds like the rational choice 13:36:56 i don't see how that follows cheater 13:37:00 in fact, we should write an article on rationalwiki 13:37:16 which part can you not see the logical sequence of, kmc? 13:37:47 getting a bunch of water from 23°C to 57°C in an acceptable amount of time will take a much larger heater than keeping it at 57° in an insulated container 13:37:55 -!- elliott has left. 13:38:57 you're probably right 13:39:04 i'm gonna run the numbers, one sec 13:39:05 but i am not sure either way 13:39:11 right, there's physics 13:39:29 but how can you measure the amount of heat being lost through the insulation? 13:39:42 i will approximate it by the thermal conductivity of styrofoam 13:40:21 if you have the area and thickness 13:40:31 although the edges will be less conductive 13:42:16 let's say a cube 30 cm on a side with 3 cm styrofoam insulation 13:42:26 yea 13:42:39 work your magic, carl 13:42:56 that's 0.54 m² surface area 13:43:45 thermal conductivity of styrofoam is 0.03 W / (K * m) according to A Website 13:44:03 wikipedia 13:44:09 0.03 W / (K * m) * 0.54 m² / 3 cm * (57 - 23) K 13:44:14 = 18 watts 13:44:46 is your heating element 18 watts 13:44:56 and i'd double up on that 13:45:20 a cheap hotplate is like 800 watts 13:45:27 yup 13:45:32 i don't know about my element 13:45:48 so kmc 13:45:48 it's like a small thing you put in a mug of water to make tea 13:45:50 show me your element 13:45:54 brb 13:45:58 *nudge nudge* 13:46:27 http://www.amazon.com/Travel-Immersion-Water-Heater-Voltage/dp/B000AXS0UE 13:46:33 Heating immersion 125 watt coil quickly heats up water 13:46:44 i am suggesting this is similar to your thing 13:47:03 HOWEVER, you might be in for a problem 13:47:11 it says 125 W 13:47:18 there you go 13:47:19 yes it's exactly like that one 13:47:23 i totally oracled you 13:47:30 i am you from the future 13:47:50 the problem is in normal sous vide cooking, you're heating a hot plate which heats a pot which heats water which heats the meat 13:48:05 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:48:16 a lot of very sluggish heat capacitance 13:48:29 it works like a low pass filter for heat 13:48:33 and also spreads it evenly 13:48:40 here you are heating water directly which heats the meat 13:48:44 you might end up with a pocket of heat 13:48:58 which may or may not be advisable 13:49:32 either way, the pot full of water is by far most of the thermal mass 13:49:38 yeah 13:49:43 it is 13:49:52 wait 13:49:57 in sous vide you put a pot in a pot 13:49:58 right? 13:50:00 so i think this cooler full of water will hold temperature fine 13:50:09 or am i wrong here 13:50:12 might need something to circulate the water though 13:50:16 cheater_: not necessarily 13:50:24 yeah i thought you might need the circulation 13:50:25 you put food inside a bag inside a water bath 13:50:30 so have you ever made sous vide before? 13:50:34 yes 13:50:37 i did sous vide steak twice 13:50:37 was it good? 13:50:44 it was delicious 13:50:52 what was the difference 13:50:56 i did like 135°F for an hour 13:51:17 it's just a foolproof way to get the exact level of rare / well-done you like 13:51:27 an hour is not that long 13:51:31 yeah it's not 13:51:33 i thought the idea was to have it on very long 13:51:38 some sous vide recipes are like 24 hours plus 13:51:43 but for beef it's not necessary apparently 13:51:45 i cooked steaks in a pot for an hour 13:51:48 you just need to get the inside up to temperature 13:51:54 like with sauce 13:52:12 oh i didn't know that 13:52:18 when is 24 hours mandatory? 13:52:21 i don't know 13:53:04 k 13:53:09 i'm no chef, i can barely cook kraft mac & cheese 13:53:18 but the sous vide stuff seemed easy and fun and sciency 13:53:19 hurr 13:53:26 yeah, steak comes natural to me too 13:53:36 i go to restaurants and they never make it as good as i do 13:53:40 with sous vde steak you do want to fry or grill it briefly 13:53:42 but i can't cook for my life 13:53:45 yeah 13:53:48 sear 13:53:50 actually 13:53:50 to get the outside all burnt & crispy 13:53:51 yeah 13:53:58 i bought a steel pan especially for steak 13:54:08 but i wouldn't do this candied steak in it 13:54:19 wonder if a crème brûlée torch would work 13:54:22 had to use a tefal pan because you gotta burn the mustard 13:54:30 so that it carmelizes 13:54:33 caramelizes 13:54:34 mm 13:54:42 creme brulee wouldn't work 13:54:48 because the thing has to sear into the meat 13:54:57 mostly i fry stuff in cast iron pans 13:55:20 what i did was spread a 4 mm coat of that mustard on the cold pan where the steak would be 13:55:33 i put the steak on that and put the pan on the heat 13:55:41 waited until it started searing 13:55:46 no oil or anything 13:55:52 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 13:56:43 i applied spices (lots of ginger, it disappears later on, lots of red pepper) and then put the mustard on the top (still raw side) 13:56:44 flip once 13:56:59 sear the other side 13:57:05 the first side looked really nice too 13:57:17 you know the mustard is carmelizing when it starts foaming up 13:58:15 the mustard you want isn't the usual sour stuff, it should look like orange jelly, the kind you put on toast, but it tastes tart 13:58:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:59:25 hey kmc do you know the difference between vector and superscalar? 14:05:07 in processors? 14:05:29 yeah 14:05:30 that steak sounds really nice 14:05:34 i found out already tho 14:05:36 k 14:05:42 yeah it was amazing 14:05:50 i did it several times now and it's always better 14:05:58 trying to perfect the recipe 14:06:09 next time i'll use much more ginger because it was like not there at all 14:07:20 ginger is good 14:07:22 and maybe long pepper 14:07:25 do you ever cook with szechuan pepper 14:07:33 i was thinking of it 14:07:35 but it wouldn't fit 14:07:47 the one i have is too alkaline 14:07:53 for lack of a better description 14:08:02 this stuff is sweet and sour 14:08:07 and bitter 14:08:38 have you ever tried long pepper 14:08:48 i've never heard of it until i found it at a christmas fair last year 14:09:23 or should i say 14:09:26 winter solstice fair 14:09:26 heh 14:12:19 kmc: apparently ebay has a lot of ready pid controllers 14:12:25 you just search for "temperature kiln" 14:16:13 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:16:16 cool 14:16:37 wow super cheap 14:17:15 what's the cheapest you found? 14:17:25 i'll probably build it myself though 14:17:44 it should be a super easy build 14:17:58 and it would amuse me to have something that plugs into my laptop 14:18:16 is pid that easy 14:18:19 and a good excuse to learn some basic control theory 14:18:30 yeah the learning is there for me too 14:18:35 the incentive 14:18:47 it would be cool to see the temperature graph with the element on/off indications 14:18:50 in realtime 14:19:11 http://www.instructables.com/id/Segstick/ here's a fun build project, which includes some PID control 14:19:17 hard realtime or soft realtime 14:19:24 lol just soft 14:19:25 *niggle* 14:19:26 just for UI 14:19:36 i'm just fucking with ya. 14:19:41 cheater_ you niggler 14:20:02 kmc you crackler 14:21:18 snap crackle and php 14:27:12 :( 14:28:07 ? for some reason I have internationale on my touhou playlist... 14:34:38 it's funny 14:34:44 i'm learning basic italian 14:34:49 and i can already understand some spanish 14:34:54 those languages are closer than i thought 14:35:03 it's not like polish and czech or latvian or russian 14:35:10 which are pretty close themselves 14:35:37 or like german and dutch 14:39:42 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:43:28 Uh 14:43:32 cheater_ Latcvia 14:43:40 cheater_ Latvian isn't close to Slavic languages really 14:43:55 Did you mean Latvian vs. Lithuanian?" 14:43:57 Those are closer 14:46:40 no i meant to polish 14:47:01 ;o 14:51:59 cheater_: i might visit baltic states / eastern europe / etc this summer 14:52:03 anywhere i should go or avoid? 14:52:12 yes 14:52:16 baltic states 14:52:17 to both 14:52:46 but more so to the latter 14:52:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:52:55 much more 14:53:25 unless you will go to jail if you don't go to said baltic states, there's no reason to go there 14:53:43 any amount of illness or misfortune is preferable 14:59:12 kmc: did you figure out if Touch is good or bad yet 15:01:58 http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4567.html 15:08:19 cheater_: it's definitely very bad 15:08:22 but also kind of interesting 15:08:37 ok not watching 15:10:57 the math / science / philosophy is beyond nonsensical 15:11:01 like, i can suspend disbelief 15:11:25 i'm not one of those people who will complain because a character says "centrifugal" instead of "centripetal", or that the Linux box looks more like a SunOS 2 machine 15:11:34 but this show is really pushing it 15:11:54 is it like Numbers 15:12:05 it's far worse than NUMB3RS 15:12:19 it's like the movie Pi except without the good writing or acting or directing 15:13:17 a lot of it reminds me of the trailer for The Numberwang Code 15:13:25 i could never watch it 15:13:30 like this kid writes a 6 on a piece of paper and everyone is like "WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!??" 15:13:30 on the other hand Pi was amazing 15:13:44 it means 15:13:46 NUMBERWANG!!! 15:13:51 this other guy has a win-big hold 'em poker strategy which is based entirely on him memorizing a short sequence of small numbers 15:13:53 they should really make a fictional film with 100% mathematical and scientific accuracy 15:14:03 the same sequence which is also the key to life the universe and everything 15:14:20 they also just make other shit up whenever it suits them 15:14:38 like they decided that the ISS has regular blackout periods where they can't communicate with earth 15:14:41 have you never had a situation like Pi in your life 15:14:42 just because it suits the plot 15:14:43 like 15:14:55 sitting around in your flat for weeks not going out 15:14:58 hacking away at some shit 15:15:04 then you come out and everyone feels so alien 15:15:12 i think that's what pi is about 15:15:13 then you get kidnapped by orthodox jews 15:15:19 then you drill your brains out with a power drill and go to heaven 15:15:21 ^ 15:15:21 yes that's happened to me 15:15:38 cheater_: i have experienced that... but to me it's not just people but the entire environment 15:15:38 also one time i was riding the subway and found a bare human brain sitting on the platform 15:15:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:15:47 kmc ok then you know what i mean 15:15:53 itidus22: yeah, exactly 15:16:09 yeah i know that feeling... i don't particularly enjoy it 15:16:21 infact i dread it 15:16:22 ok so what else about Touch 15:16:36 they are really unsubtle about the simplistic emotions you are supposed to experience while watching it 15:16:45 i haven't seen pi thouhg 15:16:45 itidus22: it's weird alright 15:16:50 itidus22: you should 15:17:08 the dialogue is terrible, a lot of it is just characters saying things they would never realistically say so that the audience is not confused 15:17:21 kmc: sounds like everything i hate about tv series 15:17:35 chea:so.. if the problem is gradually being identified maybe i can get a pill or therapy for it within a decade! 15:17:37 ahhh 15:17:41 cheater_: so.. if the problem is gradually being identified maybe i can get a pill or therapy for it within a decade! 15:17:54 just do what the character did in the end 15:17:58 worked for him 15:18:05 i have a plan.. 15:18:09 i certainly have a plan 15:18:14 but do you have a drill? 15:18:21 also they had a blatant Magic Negro character but I guess i already complained about that 15:18:22 uh no 15:18:49 16:22 restate my assumptions: 1. kmc is a troll 15:18:53 haha 15:19:00 @remember 16:22 restate my assumptions: 1. kmc is a troll 15:19:00 It is stored. 15:19:18 cheater_: but you said he was hacking away at something... and you're saying this wasn't enough to save him 15:19:20 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:19:21 thats a concern 15:19:32 is the problem that he didn't hack away good enough? 15:19:34 just watch the movie 15:19:41 no he hacked to good 15:19:45 itidus22: no the problem is that he was too good 15:19:46 he totally disconnected 15:19:47 you should watch it 15:19:49 he was in the flow for too long 15:19:51 in the zone 15:19:52 then you should watch Requiem for a Dream 15:20:14 he was so deep into it he completely dissociated the real world 15:20:17 then you'll probably want to die 15:20:26 i was gonna watch requiem 15:20:28 but didn't 15:20:32 you should 15:20:34 it's a really good film 15:20:35 should i 15:20:38 with good music 15:20:39 yes 15:21:09 cheater_: what i have realized is that the problem i have centers around the whole idea of reflecting on past information with new information 15:21:19 unnecessarily 15:21:21 Requiem.For.A.Dream.2000.720p.BluRay.x264-SiNNERS.mkv 15:21:26 when the past information is just fine as it is 15:21:33 itidus22: no idea what you mean. 15:22:05 well.. like the focuses of an adult are different than those of a child 15:22:35 and.. after, lets say, spending too much time indoors and concentrating on certain ideas 15:22:52 then.. we have new perspectives with which to view our past 15:23:00 but if these new perspectives are garbage 15:23:26 are they 15:23:36 if they're depressing they are 15:23:38 i realized last year i don't hate buttermilk 15:23:43 i did as a kid having never tried any 15:23:58 because butter + milk = yech 15:24:01 the new perspective wasn't garbage 15:25:03 and lets say.. activites we once enjoyed which we think are silly now 15:25:09 why should they be silly? 15:25:33 -!- variable has joined. 15:25:47 anyway, isolation probably isn't good 15:25:57 but isolation is hard to really escape 15:26:46 cheater_: hah.. heres the video i recommend for the protagonist of Pi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCnHWas3HQ 15:26:53 the words are very telling 15:27:00 and easy to ignore 15:27:20 imagine this song in the context of Pi 15:28:12 kmc: it starts with violins droning and tuning 15:28:15 totally hipster film 15:28:30 i'll make a tshirt with a screencap 15:28:35 it'll get me the ladies 15:29:08 i always thought this song was just an old-person song 15:33:06 "When you've got worries all the noise and the hurry seems to help, I know." 15:33:21 "Just listen to the music of the traffic in the city." 15:34:26 yeah it's actually a good idea, from a psychiatric point of view 15:34:31 kmc is it ok to be having three stakes 15:34:34 steaks 15:34:35 a day 15:34:39 maybe 15:34:47 i'm gonna cook these two cuts with szechuan pepper 15:34:50 and some german spice 15:35:04 interesting 15:35:11 i don't know if szechuan pepper would go with steak 15:36:08 my favorite dish at the local szechuan restaurant is called "spicy beef with cumin" 15:36:14 i don't know how to describe its properties exactly 15:36:37 the beef is fried in delicious batter or something 15:36:47 and it's super spicy and szechuan-peppery 15:37:21 i think it's fairy different from the spicy hunan beef with cumin that i find easily by google 15:37:27 cheater_: do you know how to make good currywurst sauce 15:37:41 i'm guessing that heinz ketchup + curry powder is not ideal 15:43:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:47:25 no 15:47:32 you need a specific very cheap ketchup 15:47:40 with a lot of starch 15:47:51 er 15:47:53 no wrong 15:48:01 but it's fairly watery and somewhat jelly like 15:48:02 it's sweet 15:49:20 but as you know i am offended by the idea of currywurst 15:49:58 also, tip for authenticity 15:50:11 all currywurst stands have a special currywurst cutter 15:50:17 it's a machine where you enter the currywurst at the top 15:50:44 and it slices it into slices of random 1-2 cm thickness 15:51:05 that is put on a rectangular paper tray 15:51:09 then ketchup on top 15:51:16 and then curry powder at your own leisure 15:51:45 and of course make sure those machines are Turing complete(well, unfortunately that's not possible unless we're talking virtual curryworst) 15:51:56 wurst 15:52:14 wurst, indeed 15:52:35 wurst is better 15:52:45 i've been cutting with knife 15:53:04 your description of the ketchup sounds like standard cheap american ketchup 15:53:09 except for jelly-like 15:53:10 kmc: so this spice i just used, called bockhornkleesaat, seems to be relatively unknown 15:53:24 nah the jelly like is just pedantism on my side, disregard 15:53:26 it's very watery 15:53:38 in germany currywurst is the food of the lowest classes 15:53:55 cheater_: well like salmon swimming against the current, it's easy to forget that relaxing with a bit of sport and a beer can be good for you 15:54:03 cheater_: it's related to fenugreek? 15:54:09 it is fenugreek 15:54:10 the bockhornkleesaat 15:54:12 ok 15:54:12 is it popular? 15:54:16 i have heard of it 15:54:21 it's in every shop here 15:54:28 i have no idea what the hitlers use it for 15:54:36 it's one of those things you look at and have no idea 15:54:44 anyways it goes well with the szechuan pepper 15:54:48 since it's fairly alkaline too 15:54:51 and some rosemary 15:55:03 is it fenugreek seeds or fenugreek leaves? 15:55:15 seed 15:55:20 well 15:55:26 ground 16:05:06 haha 16:05:19 i see two kids shlepping a tv across the city 16:05:21 i think 16:05:46 "i'll tell kmc i see two kids shlepping a tv across the city, and that they probably want to use it to make drugs" 16:05:51 then they start talking about making drugs 16:05:56 lolo 16:06:11 yep 16:06:18 -!- cheater_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 16:06:58 -!- cheater has joined. 16:07:41 whoops 16:07:45 not an emoquit 16:22:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:23:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:26:20 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has joined. 16:33:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 16:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 16:35:27 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:36:33 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:39:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:52:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Narrative&diff=cur&oldid=488999882 17:01:56 @ping 17:01:57 pong 17:02:19 @bacon 17:02:20 Unknown command, try @list 17:02:23 :( 17:03:56 Living witout X has been very easy. It is actually easier for me than living with X 17:03:56 kmc: http://lh6.ggpht.com/-DIU4wNe0EpY/T6DHvL3l0lI/AAAAAAAAWps/utau6yOyKt0/02-Desktop3%25255B5%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 17:04:13 what is alternative to X? 17:04:18 eggs11 17:04:24 eggsorg 17:04:35 or rather, what are you using in place of X? 17:04:39 itidus22: framebuffer and console apps 17:04:51 framebuffer? 17:05:12 itidus22: I am also trying to get ManaGeR to compile (it was designed for Linux 1.x) 17:05:29 what sort of thing is framebuffer? 17:05:37 itidus22: linux framebbuffer, also known as fbdev 17:06:11 nortti: i recently ranted about how gui is bad 17:06:13 :D 17:06:29 maybe you are living the truth 17:06:40 what is ManaGeR 17:06:57 itidus22: it makes possible larger virtual consoles and with it I can use simple graphics in virtual consoles (I use links2 and mplayer with framebuffer) 17:07:46 kmc: very old GUI combining Graphics server, WM and terminal emulator in sama package 17:07:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:03 nortti: the main point of my rant was that windows are not as useful as they propose to be 17:08:19 itidus22: where can I read your rant? 17:08:33 uhh.. it was short... and i didnt complete it but i will find it 17:08:33 itt: http://conal.net/blog/posts/tangible-functional-programming-a-modern-marriage-of-usability-and-composability 17:08:52 humm.. just need to remember what words i used :D 17:09:27 `log [i]tidus multi tasking 17:10:00 No output. 17:10:04 `log [i]tidus multi tasking 17:10:18 No output. 17:10:24 `log [i]tidus multi 17:10:26 `log [i]tidus multitasking 17:10:39 No output. 17:10:40 No output. 17:10:55 theres probably a good explanation for this.. but i will just find it 17:12:16 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-05-09#155943itidus21 17:12:34 in any case for a few pages i ramble about some of these things 17:13:48 so, i didn't fully flesh out my ideas. 17:14:12 but yeah, the gui systems were rushed to market without any real thought 17:15:12 honestly there is no good reason for why you even need multiple windows. 17:16:13 so what we see is that browsers adopt the purely tabbed model... this is how operating systems should really have been 17:16:32 itidus22: do you mean multiple windows as in many windows on screen at the same time or multiple output buffers 17:16:59 many windows on screen... it's just pointless 17:17:22 i know i would feel lost without it. and i would feel greatly deprived of something 17:17:27 but... 17:18:54 i like to have two terminals next to each other 17:18:59 each occupying half the screen 17:19:13 i could do this with screen or emacs instead of X, but that's pretty arbitrary 17:19:15 maybe fixed window shapes is a good idea 17:19:21 i also like to have a browser next to a terminal 17:19:26 itidus22: I thought the same way before I removed X. Now I see no reason to have more than 2 windows on screen at a time 17:19:43 2 windows = like a codex :D 17:19:47 overlapping windows are almost useless though 17:20:11 i mainly use them when i don't want to fight with xmonad's primitive and clunky notion of layout 17:20:19 i am on windows xp though 17:20:36 so overlapping windows is thrusted down upon me 17:21:04 and, perhaps as a sign of my latent intelligence i have dared to question it 17:21:12 itidus22: I tend to use two viewports and swapping windows in and out using gnu screen. I honestly don't see why would anyone need more than two tiled windows 17:21:28 nortti: depends how big your monitor is 17:21:35 nortti: it seems that 2 windows is like when you fold open a book. 17:21:40 the left page and right page 17:21:47 i had a widescreen monitor that would fit three 80-column terminals side by side 17:21:50 that is useful 17:22:57 so perhaps 1 window is "not enough" 17:23:10 and on a widescreen.. 1 window would feel a bit silly 17:23:14 its begging for 2 17:24:39 i think a nice setup is two widescreen monitors, one landscape and one portrait 17:25:21 i don't mind if an application has subwindows etc 17:25:37 but theres no reason for the top level to have subwindows 17:25:54 you might want to see two applications at once? 17:26:09 web browser for docs + terminal for code editor 17:26:10 like it's great for something like photoshop or flash to have lots of little windows 17:27:16 i just remember that when i was using dos.. i never thought "geez i wish i had multiple apps at one time 17:28:03 but i admit that theres good reasons for things 17:28:14 https://images.4chan.org/mu/src/1336752176872.png pic related 17:29:14 qfr++ 17:29:24 itt: real hackers 17:31:30 * itidus22 hides powerdrills from the real nef 17:34:27 oh no.. i am sort of nef 17:35:14 but he has a gf and a laptop 17:36:50 nef uses shubshub caps 17:40:48 i can't quite put a finger on it but i would like to see a form of programming which is [stops to think] ahh humm 17:41:34 what would be the most extreme form of compiler/interpreter writing? perhaps if you wrote the compiler/interpreter only and the computer generated code? 17:41:42 ^source code 17:41:42 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 17:42:09 oh 17:42:18 itidus22: the most extreme form is to BUILD IT OUT OF K'NEX PIECES 17:42:29 i thought fungot was a human for a moment there 17:42:29 itidus22: should be!... ' ed? riastradh, don't have the time 17:43:08 the word extreme was not illustrative on my part 17:43:54 but, if writing source code is about following rules then writing compilers/interpreters is about creating rules 17:44:29 but you always need one to create the other eh 17:45:42 so what do i have in mind? 17:45:59 the BASIC of compiler compilers 17:46:35 lets have 10 year olds writing compilers day in day out 17:46:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:46:50 and stop pretending it's so hard to do 17:46:51 yeah what the world needs is more programming languages designed by ignorant amateurs 17:46:57 exactly 17:47:00 not just a few 17:47:04 millions 17:47:09 after all designing a programming language is just a matter of picking symbols that look nice 17:47:50 srsly though it is cool to show people that compilers aren't magic, here's how they work 17:48:01 but your compiler construction kit may or may not demonstrate that 17:48:13 the problem with my nef project is 17:48:35 that simply having a compiler is not much use on it's own 17:49:28 theres no real reason for kids to even want their own compilers 17:50:06 since their languages will be trashy like a good 30 line BASIC program 17:53:04 i am calling it nef because it is the nef side of me which would propose such a thing even though i am ignorant on so many related fields 17:54:27 i really have this whole contempt for compilers 17:55:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:02:39 the poet in me can explain the issue 18:03:51 from an ocean beach looking at the horizon, the wise man realizes he cannot swim as far as the horizon extends 18:05:20 ion: its called an intrusive r 18:05:22 but the fool is thinking, whether 50 yards or to the extent of the horizon swimming is swimming. 18:05:57 ion: many british english dialects are "non-rhotic" which means that final r's, especially after an "uh" like sound, are not pronounced 18:06:28 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:45 as a consequence, it's not uncommon for some of those dialects to over-analyze words ending in "uh" as actually being words that end in r, which has been deleted because of that deletion rule 18:06:45 i don't quite know what i am describing... another way to say it is that, it is not until one has learned to drive that one can appreciate the skills of a master of driving 18:07:26 ion: but, when this final r is between words, it can emerge because it's not strictly final, at least not over the whole utterance 18:07:33 uh.. it is not until one has learned to make and place a brick, that one realizes he cannot build the tower of babel 18:07:35 sort of like liaison in french 18:09:21 like everyone who has done their 10,000 hours in some field probably has a good instinctive intuitive feel of what is truely challenging and what is not 18:10:36 -!- calamari has joined. 18:10:44 -!- calamari has left. 18:12:46 ahh.. like for the author.. the joy of "i wrote a novel" versus the ideal of "i solved novel writing mathematically" 18:16:15 itidus22: actually I have two windows which are up and down windows. not leaft and right 18:17:31 i think this is my main confusion in lambda calculus.. looking for some magical summary of what LC can do beyond it's stated rules 18:18:45 like uh.. with arithmetic there are instances of numbers around me everyday 18:19:07 which gives me a fair idea of how big the numbers are i can expect to worry about day to day 18:19:21 itidus22: my setup if following: tty1:links, tty2:irssi, tty3:gnu screen, tty4:hammer and sicle, uptime, free, who and df 18:20:02 but with LC.. there is no exhibits 18:21:19 what it can do is all computations 18:21:58 so.. like.. you see.. should i think of computations as in the kind of apps i have on my pc? 18:22:30 kind of like.. uh.. astronomy we tend to focus on local solar system 18:25:58 i should let it go 18:30:49 kind of amazed this works: http://i.imgur.com/6QpIO.png 18:49:57 you know what i like best about them paddy chicks kmc 18:49:58 aewf 18:49:59 Phantom_Hoover: You have 19 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:51:23 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:53:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:54:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:55:12 jesus christ kmc 18:55:18 i'm finishing this movie 18:55:33 but it's another 20 minutes and i don't know if i can make it 18:56:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 18:58:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:58:35 Hello! 19:00:21 hi 19:00:21 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:00:31 I've just been to THE THEATRE 19:00:36 *not quite the theatre 19:01:11 *actually AS level drama exam 19:01:11 according to the dictionary to compile: "to translate (a computer program) from a high-level language into another language, usually machine language, using a compiler. " 19:01:14 uh 19:01:17 @tell elliott because it's "genetic BSD", as in based on the codebase, and that codebase has already been cleared by a court case settlement with the original authors of UNIX 19:01:18 Consider it noted. 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:02:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:06:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:07:34 I saw Clockwork Orange, Trojan Women, and Abagail's Party 19:08:56 ok 19:08:57 kmc 19:09:03 i have finished the movie 19:09:11 there was no redeeming value in it for me 19:10:25 i think perhaps it would be a shocker and eye opener for a typical ivy league student who has been sheltered all its life 19:11:04 this way i see how it could be of value to someone else 19:11:09 but like 19:11:50 it was a fairly pointless use of time and emotional wear for me 19:13:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:13:28 ais523: what is "genetic BSD"? 19:14:13 nortti: "genetic UNIX" refers to something that's UNIX-like because it's actually based on the codebase of the original UNIX, indirectly, rather than attempting to copy it like Linux 19:14:27 original-UNIX has been continually deformed into OS X 19:17:22 ais523: for example is v7/x86 "genetic UNIX"? 19:17:41 nortti: anything that contains code from original UNIX 19:17:55 pretty much all Unix-likes are apart from Linux 19:18:32 Well, there is Minix. 19:18:35 ais523: even BSDs even thought they don't contain original unix surce? 19:18:51 nortti: what makes you think they don't contain original unix source? 19:18:58 BSD wasn't rewritten from scratch, it was a fork 19:20:03 ais523: because they couldn't have released it under BSD license if it still had original unix source code (see 4.2BSD Net/2) 19:20:23 nortti: there was a court settlement 19:20:39 which confirmed that the licensing was OK 19:21:59 Novell bought the rights, and then settled. 19:22:19 ais523: so it confirmed they didn't have code that was property of USL. There were five files that couldn't be released under BSD license but those were written from scratch on other BSD forks 19:22:34 hmm, we seem to have different memories of UNIX history 19:22:36 The settlement leaked in 2004: basically, BSD was in the clear if they rewrote a small handful of bits that they didn't already rewrite. 19:22:58 nortti: The other bits simply *happened* to have already been rewritten from the fork. 19:23:19 pikhq: that was called 4.4BSD-lite 19:23:35 Yes. Yes it was. 19:23:47 pikhq: Net/2 lacked those five files that were needed 19:24:39 pikhq: those were written from scratch on 386BSD project 19:25:21 ... Yes... 19:25:46 BSD is a fork of UNIX but open source versions no longer contain original UNIX source 19:26:08 And Linux no longer contains original v0.1 Linux source; your point? :) 19:26:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:27:01 pikhq: my point is that BSD contains no original UNIX source code which ais523 said it contained 19:27:13 nortti: it contained it at the time it implemented the API, though 19:27:19 and it still contains the same API 19:27:20 Still genetic UNIX. 19:28:28 I didn't say it wasn't genetic unix, I just said it no longer contain original unix source 19:28:30 this sounds like a philosophical debate 19:28:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:28:44 quintopia: why 19:28:48 Hello! 19:28:54 "if you replace every plank on a ship one-by-one as they rot, then by the time you have replaced them all, is it the same ship?: 19:29:27 quintopia: I'd say no 19:29:47 I'd say yes 19:29:48 nortti: Congrats, you are not the same person as the one called "nortti" two years ago. 19:30:04 nortti: i'd dissolve the question. identity is a silly man-made thing. 19:30:10 quintopia++ 19:30:32 pikhq: you are right. I am not 19:30:45 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:31:15 Ballsy. 19:32:05 i agree with nortti. we are not the same people we were then. however, i think that is true regardless of the philosophical question 19:32:20 I know those philosophical things 19:33:55 fortunately, i believe, if anything, i have a higher informational content than i did two years ago. the things i've forgotten left compressed remnants of themselves that interact in strange ways with the things i remember 19:34:10 that and i probably weigh a bit more >.> 19:38:15 shachaf: shachaf 19:38:45 -!- olsner has joined. 19:40:45 If all the iron atoms in some car are instantly switched with the equal amount of iron from something else, is it the same car? 19:40:57 no 19:41:06 I'm going with yes 19:41:09 yes 19:41:22 I say the answer is no. 19:41:43 arbitrary 19:41:45 (assuming they are also all in the same place, because you said switched) 19:41:59 And that modern physics seems to provide evidence for my opinion. 19:42:11 zzo38: physics says your question is meaningless 19:42:16 ^ 19:42:23 i like the theory that there's only one electron in the universe, it's bouncing back and forth between the beginning and end of time, and when it's going backwards it's a positron 19:42:36 feynman is one crazy guy eh? 19:43:07 quintopia: Newtonian physics may, but with such new thing as quantum entanglement and wavefunctions and uncertainty and all that stuff, we cannot say it is definitely the same thing. 19:43:09 but he really gets the point across that electrons are not only indistinguishable by anything except position/momentum 19:43:10 quintopia, feynman is every crazy guy. He's going back and forth in the universe, and when he's going backwards he's a vicar 19:43:29 but not really worth distinguishing in many cases 19:43:52 zzo38: quantum physics says your question is meaningless 19:44:09 ^ 19:44:20 quantum physics says it doesn't make sense to talk about "switching particles with one another" 19:44:52 indeed, because you couldn't(you could never get their exact location) 19:45:52 quintopia: Exactly, it is what I mean by that the mathematics has no way to represent it is, therefore, their exact location doesn't have and if they are switched, you have to antisymmetry (or symmetry) to subtract the states to figure out the result which should be zero if in fact they are the same, but even in that case, uncertainty and entanglement is possible. 19:46:39 so you're saying that the car would fall apart? 19:47:09 but it might exist for a very short timespan 19:47:11 zzo38: do you understand what "entanglement" is? do you understand where exactly the uncertainty arises? 19:47:14 No! But I am also saying that you cannot consider space/time like this. It is all relative and space and time are together rather than separate, too. 19:47:43 quintopia: Yes I know how to write down the state vectors for an entangled state and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and those things to some degree. 19:48:04 Well, it might fall apart; everything is possible. 19:48:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:48:17 not everything 19:48:24 ftl communication is not 19:48:35 zzo38: with falling apart I mean falling apart in energy 19:48:44 That is not what I meant by what I have said 19:49:28 because if some atoms(or smaller particles) would be in an incorrect position, the whole thing would become unstable? 19:49:32 but I have to go 19:49:33 bye 19:49:34 AnotherTest: O, you mean in energy. Well, I have not calculated the amount of energy it has, and I only know the Newtonian energy anyways, which is different from this energy 19:50:02 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:50:17 AnotherTest: But, yes, tat would be the case; however, that is not what I meant; when I said I meant they would switch exact (as far as it is meaningful) position 19:50:30 how did we get to this from unix? 19:51:52 By way of philosophy. 19:57:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:01:35 -!- Frooxius|TabletP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:17:12 -!- mrdragons has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:38:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:49:36 kmc 20:49:43 why did you subject me to that crappy movie 20:49:43 cheater 20:49:49 for spite 20:49:52 it was like watching days go by 20:51:16 no 20:51:16 what was that tv series? 20:51:16 life goes on 20:59:28 sing with me kmc 20:59:32 ob la di, ob la da 20:59:37 life goes oooh-oon 21:04:52 ♬♩♫♪ 21:07:33 -!- Kray has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:07:55 is the icon belonging to a window something that X tracks? or is it tracked at a different level (e.g. window manager or dbus)? 21:09:04 my guess is "no, yes" 21:09:10 :P 21:10:04 -!- Kray has joined. 21:11:41 if you run xprop and click a Firefox window you'll see a nice big firefox icon in your terminal 21:37:35 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:40:02 @tell augur Thanks for the explanation. :-) 21:40:02 Consider it noted. 21:40:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:45:52 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:46:35 Let's remove human from endangered species list; the population is too much 21:48:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:56:41 -!- nortti has joined. 22:02:20 kmc: keegan 22:02:46 shachaf: http://i.imgur.com/6QpIO.png 22:03:12 :-D 22:04:10 kmc: I used to more or less be able to read Arabic. :-( 22:06:04 Oh, that's Haskell. 22:06:16 I saw fancy characters and immediately assumed it was Agda. 22:07:36 haha 22:07:40 :-D 22:07:58 i think the bidi algorithm is particularly bad for source code 22:08:02 like that "n = n" is a LTR span 22:08:20 if those were two different variable names, the argument would be the one further from the function name 22:09:07 Please don't write code in RTL languages. :-( 22:09:11 There probably should be just short RTL spans for single words. 22:09:23 kmc: What were you doing in Boston? 22:09:23 and longer ones for strings and comments, i suppose 22:09:50 I don't actually have a good intuitive model of the standard bidi algorithm. 22:09:50 I guess you'd want a syntactically aware text editor for handling RTL code. 22:09:58 Except that using non-English languages in code is evil, so there should be electric shocks for doing that. 22:10:11 I've had cases where I had a URL with LTR and RTL characters and I just *couldn't* put my cursor where I wanted. 22:10:14 No matter what I tried. 22:10:22 The bidi algorithm spans a single syntactic entity. e.g. a name, a single string, or a single comment. 22:10:29 The least painful solution ended up being deleting a large chunk of it and typing it from scratch. 22:10:51 One way is to require all program codes to be ASCII. It is also possible to write all URLs in ASCII, too. 22:11:35 zzo38: Most code is written in straight ASCII, so hey. 22:11:36 zzo38: Another way is to kill anyone who speaks non-English languages. 22:11:45 LETS REQUIRE ALL PROGRAM CODES TO CONSIST OF CAPITAL LETTERS NUMBERS AND SPACES 22:12:00 zzo38: kmc's opinion of you is going to be about the same with either of those ways! 22:12:48 Well, text strings and comments would still be permitted to contain non-ASCII texts 22:14:16 kmc: Wait, you live in Boston. 22:14:29 * shachaf forgot about that. 22:16:12 -!- monqy has joined. 22:25:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:26:12 `pastefortunes 22:26:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1507 22:34:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:47:54 `quote 22:47:56 `quote 22:47:57 `quote 22:47:58 `quote 22:47:59 `quote 22:48:05 753) fizzie: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord 22:48:08 853) imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. that's what it's like for people who hit you 22:48:11 600) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:48:24 775) [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. 22:48:25 321) haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!" "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards" 22:58:03 nortti: You should delete 600. 22:59:15 `delquote 600 22:59:17 ​*poof* elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:59:33 thortti 23:02:59 Can you play E Card? 23:06:27 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )). 23:07:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:08:55 no 23:13:21 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:24:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:14 zzo38: How do I find out whether I can play E Card? 23:26:45 shachaf: I can tell you how it is played. 23:28:36 The game is played by two players, the owner and challenger. 23:30:11 There are three kind of cards: Emperor, Citizen, and Slave. Emperor beats Citizen, Citizen beats Slave, and Slave beats Emperor. (If you prefer, you can use Pokemon cards: leaf energy card beats water energy card, water energy card beats fire energy card, and fire energy card beats leaf energy card.) 23:31:58 At first, owner has four Citizen and one Slave, and challenger has four Citizen and one Emperor. Three rounds are played this way, and then it is switch so that challenger has Slave instead, again for three rounds. And then this is repeated three time both ways for a total of twelve rounds. 23:33:08 The player with the Emperor card plays a card face-down, and then the player with Slave plays a card face-down. If both are Citizens, then they are discarded and the player holding the Slave card plays first this time. It alternates until one player wins or loses. 23:34:42 -!- david_werecat has joined. 23:34:59 It is not permitted to just select a card at random; you are required to decide which card to play (I am unsure how they can enforce this rule). In addition, both players have a five minute time limit to select a card. 23:36:01 Before the game starts, a drill is screwed onto one of the challenger's ears, 3 cm from the eardrum. 23:39:01 Before each round, the challenger makes a bet in millimetres. After the cards are played, if the challenger loses then the drill is moved that distance (the eardrum is destroyed if the distance between it and the drill is reduced to zero). If the challenger wins while playing the Emperor's side, he wins 100000 yen per mm bet. If the challenger wins with the Slave's side, he wins 500000 yen per mm bet. 23:39:40 At the end, the drill is removed and he gets to keep the money, regardless of whether or not his ear has been destroyed. 23:40:00 These are the rules. OK????? 23:40:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:50 ion: np 23:52:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:57:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).