< 1336262451 443081 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DES was probably less pathetic in the 1970s. < 1336262478 423650 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336262497 109248 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why MIT can't switch now < 1336262498 525697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Debian keys produced with that bug, would trying all possible keys be considered brute-force? < 1336262541 857911 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably they have some legacy system that only does DES but i don't know what or how important it is < 1336262562 340984 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think SIPB should force the issue by buying a DES cracker; they have too much money anyway < 1336262573 661601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not for the purposes of my statement < 1336262577 555470 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screwup there is Debian's patch < 1336262607 756068 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a device that brute-forces DES in a day really cost $10,000? < 1336262642 311504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: Yesterday? But the full moon has not yet occurred. < 1336262736 551320 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked full enough. < 1336262860 352161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't quite full. < 1336262962 834453 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's hard to find prices, but some places say $10k < 1336262970 95567 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it anyway < 1336262975 197980 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336263133 344033 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that I would've expected it to be less. < 1336263140 839744 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have much of a reference point. < 1336263153 300690 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1336263154 630661 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Other than "$250,000 in 1999, apparently".) < 1336263172 736283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a horoscope, you can see when the full moon is. There should be a line (called an aspect) between the sun and moon. If this line passes through the center of the chart, then it is full moon. The moon and sun move counterclockwise relative to the signs; the moon moves much faster. So depending on which side the aspect line misses the center, you can see the before/after full moon. < 1336263181 244808 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336263187 969022 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336263191 309163 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFF's thingy used custom chips < 1336263251 822234 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is there a bare eye way to discern a full and not-quite-full moon? < 1336263280 391203 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: I don't know if the difference is enough to see by a bare eye; you might need a telescope. < 1336263314 310666 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336263336 402404 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1336263938 277437 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1336264135 331280 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336264163 20104 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-146.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336264305 283998 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom_hoover: URL, please. < 1336264314 69255 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he left. < 1336264345 430217 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hion < 1336264364 993879 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hachaf < 1336264529 697066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use the UNIX "phase of moon" program if you have it, to tell you phase of moon. You could also use a program such as Astrolog to tell you the phase of moon and many more things (if you can understand what everything means). Most calendars also have phase of moon but those only indicate the date and not the time of day, so it may not be precise enough. < 1336264588 859176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Astrolog has the ability to print calendars, but you cannot plot any other data on these calendars; only the month, days of week, and day numbers are being displayed!) < 1336264625 50693 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thion < 1336264676 47659 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heegan < 1336265532 102008 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1336265749 882239 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1336265872 489390 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336266084 165710 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-21.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1336267085 683614 :Patashu!~Patashu@114.73.19.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336267676 120324 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336267950 285368 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@114.73.22.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336268120 289084 :Patashu!~Patashu@114.73.19.174 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1336269911 580590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the bird for (\f g x -> f (g x) (g x))? < 1336269977 832654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rooster. < 1336270018 41351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke. < 1336270029 121616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good joke < 1336270074 289430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rooster is only going to make some of us hungry. < 1336270471 30654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it so that Warbler is a type for endomorphisms of any category and Starling is a type for endomorphisms of a Kleisli category of a monad on any category. < 1336270498 725726 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336270875 465219 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@114.73.22.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1336270996 333217 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [e]xtend every extra extreme < 1336271029 559424 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1336271032 455338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [e]xtend every extra extreme < 1336271047 446707 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-04-26.txt:01:24:11: and finally, there is a game named Extend Every Extra, and as google told me another one named Extend Every Extra Extreme. And another game named Kingdom Hearts 3D subtitled Dream Drop Distance < 1336271262 241600 :Patashu!~Patashu@114.73.22.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336272537 992229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree that the whole house system is stupid? < 1336273308 355973 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: jfischoff < 1336274609 586553 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/house //, yeah < 1336274665 618353 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336274942 961605 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1336276476 275625 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1336277170 462435 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336277172 603430 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1336277568 880276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1336277611 869465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The time is not a time I like < 1336277622 950301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1336277637 35809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's inbetween 3 and 6 AM < 1336277680 277918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What house is the sun at? < 1336277702 184151 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number 14? < 1336277711 410133 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know what that means < 1336277722 58060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the houses on a horoscope; they only go up to 12. < 1336277750 163742 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have no idea < 1336277781 623191 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Houses numbered 1 to 6 are below the horizon; numbered 7 to 12 are above the horizon. The sun is at the cusp of the 10th house at solar noon.) < 1336277822 919120 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like twilight at the moment? < 1336277833 965440 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's been twilight for a while < 1336278113 226229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my computer I can compute those things with a few different house systems. In my location, sun is in 6th house. < 1336278145 895457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For twilight, maybe the sun is in first house? < 1336278302 224784 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I give you my co-ordinates, will that help? < 1336278322 833435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1336278351 53532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :54.9695 N, 2.0842 W < 1336278366 39438 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approximately) < 1336278396 923426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is close enough < 1336278416 219036 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes the sun is in first house in that location < 1336278416 576040 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The approximation is in accuracy, not precision < 1336278418 785101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1336278443 947131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still close enough for most purposes. < 1336278502 335594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I have just said "55N, 2W"? < 1336278539 468924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: The program I have expects two decimal places, and the coordinates of a city in a map should be close enough. < 1336278552 176720 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1336279120 161176 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: jfischoff < 1336279138 280120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pondering yesterday that it would be interesting to me to have a number that was either: integer a + 0, or integer a + 0 > b > 1 .. written like 3 or 3.f where f stood for fraction < 1336279209 948352 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i will get told off no matter which incorrect notation i use, i tried my best < 1336279265 367977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, normally i might have 4 numbers: 2, 5.3, 7, 3.11 but i would now have them as: 2, 5.f, 7, 3.f < 1336279296 936061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or probably even leaving the decimal off altogether < 1336279346 938932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some house systems are Placidus, Campanus, and Regiomontanus. < 1336279391 288032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is also Whole, but Whole house system is very stupid so don't use it.) < 1336279948 42251 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336282458 306114 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: jfischoff < 1336282464 626261 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This week’s electronics lectures have a promising start: http://imm.io/oobP < 1336283449 276764 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever played stratego? < 1336283893 5254 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. There's a way to stick 364 bytes in a Twitter message. < 1336283895 946744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, you ask? < 1336283904 136665 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy. Encode base 2^21-1. < 1336283944 595743 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitter's message limit is in codepoints, not bytes. < 1336283958 235258 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/the_1st_international_longest_tweet < 1336284045 359949 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dear, you can use UTF-8 that doesn't map to code points. < 1336284082 722304 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought it would be characters, not codepoints < 1336284097 653210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's not. If it's characters East Asia is screwed. < 1336284106 187045 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they would perform normalization server-side? < 1336284114 226562 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Kay, true. < 1336284114 349908 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's plausible but not what I would expect < 1336284136 228508 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I have played some similar things. < 1336284144 738471 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: kriegsspiel? < 1336284168 786095 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many copies of U+FDFA 'ARABIC LIGATURE SALLALLAHOU ALAYHE WASALLAM' can you tweet :) < 1336284191 835314 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one probably doesn't normalize out to basic letters < 1336284199 711191 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :under whatever twitter would use < 1336284209 442719 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the upper bound is... 538 bytes? < 1336284217 485243 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some situations where single codepoints will expand dramatically < 1336284292 859883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: is there a way to print a message longer than usual so that it will display correctly on the twitter site? < 1336284313 892196 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lb((2^31-1)^139)/8 that is. < 1336284380 873155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I have once played a chess variant known as kriegspiel. < 1336284393 98728 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how hard was it? did you win? < 1336284416 857016 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if their UTF-8 parsing is still more naive you might be able to get more in. < 1336284418 245449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget. < 1336284435 747535 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they let you use an unbound number of continuation bytes? :) < 1336284491 622729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also know about Luzhanqi (which is a Chinese kind of Stratego game) < 1336284835 237865 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1336285114 849081 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assembling service pack", says Windows. < 1336285127 962626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think they write it in assembly and distribute the source code. < 1336286374 24478 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-32-248.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1336286403 209021 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336286734 415959 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think one of the biggest problems in game design is that sometimes people think there are rules to follow they can rely on, and other times people think there are no rules < 1336286869 333735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have a second shot at saying that: game designers are subject to the following wiki cut and paste: < 1336286873 701342 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At a group or community level, the conventional levels of significance or salience are slowly embedded in the sign systems and culture, and they cannot arbitrarily be changed." < 1336287031 709206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I still don't understand why platform games are fun, but due to convention it is difficult to think about 2d games in other ways. < 1336287209 28741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 fucking hours, and Windows is installed. < 1336287220 187627 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I still don't have a C compiler! < 1336287317 835804 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-244-235.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1336287352 196111 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1336287694 338878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: The rules of game design are whatever you design the rules to be. And then, if you don't like it, adjust it until it is better. < 1336287731 609077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, that is the problem of Windows; it lacks many important programs as standard. < 1336287773 132232 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not the only one. < 1336287786 255210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not even the most significant problem. < 1336287800 998459 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes; there are many other problems too. < 1336287802 455165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the most significant problem is how stupifyingly hard it is to dev for. < 1336287838 557351 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, even though free tools exist, a lot of them don't work as well as MSVC < 1336287842 820329 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for anything OpenGL < 1336287856 556169 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're just doing basic stuff though, Dev-C++ is a pretty easy way to get mingw set up < 1336287860 438738 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an okay IDE < 1336287867 370119 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And MSVC itself doesn't work tolerably for C. < 1336287874 601623 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nb: all my information about windows dev is 5+ years out of date < 1336287876 194846 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh? < 1336287884 824031 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They last touched it in the 90s. < 1336287897 899945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, they don't even implement all of C99 < 1336287897 938745 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides which, unless you're going to use a higher-level language, you're stuck with the Win32 API. < 1336287911 634747 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is evidence in favor of the nonexistence of God. < 1336287925 930984 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even implement C90 perfectly. < 1336287939 42520 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i recall, Win32 API is pretty bad, but POSIX is no picnic either < 1336287942 199849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though admittedly, that's just because of a couple weird edge cases. < 1336287978 279932 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX is rough. Win32 is designed by monkeys on typewriters. < 1336287994 895163 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear the Windows kernel interface is pretty nice, if undocumented < 1336288007 549028 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: In addition, I do not completely understand that wiki cut and paste. < 1336288007 945862 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32 contains the letter s a few dozen times, and some monkey piss? < 1336288018 968568 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unlike Linux they break compatibility whenever they like < 1336288035 460041 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has a *lot* of syscalls which are special cases of other syscalls < 1336288070 647957 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int CALLBACK WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, LPSTR lpCmdLine, int nCmdShow) < 1336288089 654453 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does CALLBACK do? < 1336288090 152829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make the *entry point itself* seem horrible? < 1336288104 228867 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so horrible < 1336288110 88543 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's one of the calling convention specifiers. < 1336288116 182315 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one, though < 1336288190 509335 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: jfischoff < 1336288223 3457 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1336288249 163996 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1336288260 981194 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit this is impossibly hard to find. < 1336288284 254775 :Patashu!~Patashu@114.73.22.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1336288340 158175 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd that one of C's main criticisms has became standard in many programming languages < 1336288344 975443 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, = vs == < 1336288408 144582 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not one of C's main criticisms < 1336288431 761534 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse still, just by not using those *stupid* typedefs it could look nicer: int WinMain(void *h_instance, void *h_previnstance, char *cmdline, int cmd_show) < 1336288489 94419 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame that junk's there because Win16. < 1336288520 52975 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it's the criticism of C that I hear most often < 1336288545 370621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it would've been more like int WinMain(void __long * h_instance, void __long *h_previnstance, char __long *cmdline int cmd_show) < 1336288617 113595 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some moron liked his Hungarian. < 1336288838 884498 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hikhq_ < 1336288888 508662 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1336288903 658317 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's because people are idiots and can't look past trivial syntactic matters to the things which actually make a language good or bad < 1336288942 662988 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's easy to have an opinion about syntax, and there's no objective right/wrong answer < 1336288953 722558 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except we can all agree Malbolge is bad. < 1336288968 86065 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything less than Malbolge, though? Yeaaah. < 1336288993 113110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you voice an opinion about semantics or types or implementation or security, someone can actually refute your claim with objective fact < 1336289029 844298 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: In some cases it might depend what kind of opinion they are, too? < 1336289037 914057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like, I mean, more specific than what you said) < 1336289039 221076 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the opposite extreme is dumb as well < 1336289061 111006 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming language design is largely a user interface problem, and syntax *is* important < 1336289110 910379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just easy to bikeshed on. < 1336289121 56167 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, any UI problem is. < 1336289187 396592 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336289219 935185 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336289371 5521 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1336289381 991103 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the spelling of = and == is probably below the level that makes a big difference even from a UI / UX perspective < 1336289411 914734 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like having consistent syntax, uncluttered syntax, that's a big deal < 1336289426 600245 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := and == are conventional enough by now that I don't really care < 1336289442 186595 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := versus <- causes loads of confusion in Haskell, but it's not like there's an existing convention to appeal to < 1336289455 393953 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=/== bugs can be a big deal when you can use = in expressions like in C < 1336289471 313211 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/= in Haskell is a bit weirder. < 1336289494 405318 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: true, but it's easy enough for a compiler to warn about those < 1336289498 108807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How does = versus <- cause confusion in Haskell? < 1336289524 119455 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they're both sort of like assignment in traditional imperative languages, but neither is actually that < 1336289539 697026 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the confusion is not actually syntactic < 1336289567 619370 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the confusion is that beginners don't have the concept of "let binding" and "monadic sequencing" < 1336289575 757026 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's phrased as "what's the difference between = and <-" < 1336289577 137467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it ever really help to overload operators when bugs will be caused by the differences? < 1336289585 175150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that the syntax happens to look like the syntax for completely different semantics. < 1336289598 285939 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though in-and-of-itself = and <- are quite reasonable choices. < 1336289601 712064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The problem is solved by not using do-notation and list-comprehensions? < 1336289608 759501 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe < 1336289617 449678 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But = just means to specify the definition of something < 1336289619 753274 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have to explain how = in let/where is not an assignment < 1336289635 9751 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in practice people will see tons of code that uses "do" and list comprehensions < 1336289640 234280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just ignore them < 1336289649 692507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, does not knowing what any piece of a program does always lead to bugs :D < 1336289651 286146 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i recommend writing code without bugs instead < 1336289673 786515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend writing in /bin/cat. < 1336289687 999092 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that language has a simple quine < 1336289696 638620 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in other words, does writing code with side effects always result in bugs? < 1336289717 609052 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does shell. < 1336289723 119759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sure, a lot of codes will use them; but you do not have to use them even if another code does. < 1336289743 276370 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but you have to understand them if you want to read existing haskell code < 1336289743 450080 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crackers never seem to run out of exploits < 1336289748 794412 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :including any of the popular books < 1336289755 802304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's really essential if you want to learn the language < 1336289762 648184 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the null file happens to be a valid executable on your system) < 1336289782 810889 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "cracker" is someone who breaks into computers, not to be confused with a "hacker", which is someone who cares a lot about what Paul Graham and ESR write < 1336289840 754058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, that is right; you should understand the features of existing programs. < 1336289862 149299 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do hackers call vulnerabilities in programs "exploits", and write code which makes use of said "exploits"? < 1336289924 540009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I suppose it might sometimes be the case; but features of the program might not necessarily be security vulnerabilities < 1336289926 168406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean, a bug which only matters when someone intentionally invokes it < 1336289991 409089 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine that you wouldn't get many bugs in pure functional code < 1336290002 511071 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you'd fit right in in #haskell < 1336290012 806662 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should go there and ask them "does writing code with side effects always result in bugs?" < 1336290013 338348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know if such things really are bugs which only matters when someone intentionally invokes it < 1336290074 251496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily, one might say the maintenance part of the software development lifecycle is due to side-effects < 1336290090 354875 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1336290118 892442 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly there are no bugs in the software that is never ran. < 1336290136 426506 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: basically, if your program typechecks, it's fairly certain to be doing what it's supposed to do < 1336290146 136046 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION for i in /bin/* /usr/bin/*;do ln -sf /dev/null $i;done < 1336290170 940403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth once said "Beware of bugs in the following program; I have only proven it correct, not tried it" < 1336290178 671714 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially functions of type [Char] -> [Char]. < 1336290194 816476 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah! What could that possibly do? < 1336290217 509286 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well theres a malware side-effect < 1336290219 275016 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *proved < 1336290225 799050 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it can't be anything *but* a perfectly correct C-to-Brainfuck compiler. < 1336290229 784050 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the bonzy buddy theorem, yes. < 1336290233 244848 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonzi? < 1336290236 352743 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it installs a rootkit < 1336290238 481363 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, it is certainly wrong < 1336290240 626081 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: there you go < 1336290249 88700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere between [Char] and [Char] < 1336290296 685882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: That is why they have Safe Haskell < 1336290320 264926 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you cannot install a rootkit somewhere between [Char] and [Char] < 1336290323 4777 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone calls unsafeExecuteBonziBuddyExe < 1336290338 706815 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in c (which is basically all i know) char stuff(char a) { install_rootkit(); return a; } >:-) < 1336290351 965837 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeExecuteBonziBuddyExe :: () -> () < 1336290365 63324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1336290372 926025 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1336290374 738851 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonqy < 1336290382 361142 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff = unsafePerformIO install_rootkit `seq` id < 1336290383 891918 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no channel like #esoteric. < 1336290426 630726 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1336290439 430165 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jamie Oliver and Steven Gerrard have joined forces. < 1336290443 234754 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This cannot bode well. < 1336290447 896787 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they joined bodies? < 1336290449 225865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes, you can od that, but even in C, you could have the operating system deal with what you are doing such as having things to sandbox the program or to trace system calls or whatever < 1336290476 797730 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are these people < 1336290514 718252 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC News‎ - 6 hours ago < 1336290515 18597 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver and England footballer Steven Gerrard are calling on the government to fight obesity through cookery teaching in ... < 1336290517 724134 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hit < 1336290518 915203 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :google it < 1336290521 931252 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's google" < 1336290538 468092 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is a search engine which you access with the URL http://www.google.com < 1336290552 671262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse c code might be .. char add(char a, char b) {unsigned int c,d,e; c=(unsigned int)a; b=(unsigned int)d; e=c+d; a=(char)e; return a; } < 1336290561 644171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What would you think, my opinion that such features of Haskell such as do-notation and so on should be macros rather than built-in; what would you think? < 1336290570 552778 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not obfuscated < 1336290584 972939 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i would like that < 1336290593 568392 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to have a macro system powerful enough to do these things < 1336290597 49495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Why, that's isomorphic to the Haskell code "foo = unsafeLaunchTheMissiles"! < 1336290598 301247 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's not also terrible < 1336290615 291206 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no. < 1336290625 30025 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stupid: all variables actually do get initialised there. < 1336290628 5735 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was at a job interview last wednesday, and they gave me fizzbuzz, i solved it by concatenating strings, and outputting it in the end. it was argued that use of a variable to hold the final output string was obfuscation and the code became unmanageable. < 1336290633 273551 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's merely bad. < 1336290636 128596 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { printf((char*) 0xGOATSE); } < 1336290644 296927 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What about d? < 1336290645 748596 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Myself too, it is why I wanted to make up the working group for new "Ibtlfmm" programming language, to make these and other features; perhaps we can help < 1336290652 725389 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it stand for? < 1336290654 863860 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, blah, sure enough. < 1336290655 376912 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you able to solve the fizzbuzz problem < 1336290658 360090 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ya.. the main problem with it is the function being named add < 1336290666 861393 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I would think that is not a valid C code, it won't compile, isn't it? < 1336290667 386115 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why, that *is* identical to unsafeLaunchTheMissiles. < 1336290673 626264 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is a very prominent problem in computer science < 1336290681 14333 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :npikhq_ < 1336290699 504382 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: you should have given them a solution which uses each of the GoF Design Patterns < 1336290702 748843 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: If by "computer science" you mean "interviews that seek to eliminate people with truly gross incompetence". < 1336290717 659355 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they don't get the joke, walk out immediately < 1336290729 577840 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc++ < 1336290730 930085 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they do get the joke, cockslap them for being smug elitists and walk out < 1336290733 944602 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: actually on friday i was considering if you could make a language where Singleton and MVC are the only two basic data structures, and there are some simple operations between them < 1336290738 481614 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc+=kmc < 1336290738 884392 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it would be touring-complete < 1336290765 127742 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tourette-complete < 1336290768 729824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: Put something on esolang wiki if you have ideas about that < 1336290783 312264 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "Haskell" < 1336290783 960572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Ibtlfmm" < 1336290787 816706 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: I hope you don't want to work at that place that gave you fizzbuzz. < 1336290798 970671 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc = kmc↑↑↑G < 1336290824 168338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i started to get a hint of it when i learned that the best assembly language programmers basically know all the side effects of all the instructions < 1336290828 299416 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really, giving a shit about it beyond "is this person less qualified than the average janitor?"? < 1336290830 261534 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they wanted to pay much below the standard rate < 1336290834 12994 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking fizzbuzz does not necessarily indicate that they're idiots < 1336290842 435432 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does indicate that they're casting something of a wide net < 1336290845 184750 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they didn't have AC < 1336290846 741626 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Computable functions are passé. < 1336290858 10123 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :with full-height glass walls < 1336290860 131056 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point, i don't really see why assembly language is so valuable < 1336290860 290127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1336290875 22261 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you end up being a roast chicken in june and august < 1336290886 235500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Fizzbuzz only really tells me that they happen to have idiots coming in asking for jobs. < 1336290892 397588 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc = fix (\i → Σ(i)) < 1336290902 453854 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i should have wrote fix Σ < 1336290903 66060 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't particularly look forward to sitting in a room with four sweating computer programmers < 1336290905 8621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: But assembly language can be good for program for only a specific computer; for other programs you shouldn't use assembly language < 1336290906 241982 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except they then gave a damn about how it's implemented. < 1336290910 561871 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha cheater__ < 1336290917 138242 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Too mch time away from #haskell! < 1336290920 866161 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Σ? < 1336290923 560600 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i think everyone offering a job has some idiots coming in < 1336290926 425460 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy beaver function < 1336290927 849664 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the one i meant < 1336290931 462415 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336290932 897338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : perhaps assembly language programs should be specified in terms of the intended side-effects < 1336290939 634312 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: can i see your beaver? < 1336290940 668576 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1336290944 871738 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like .. "i want to swap this flag" < 1336290945 642014 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good function < 1336290947 391331 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fizzbuzz is quite handy for finding those idiots. < 1336290954 151908 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1336290955 63118 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure they're idiots exactly < 1336290959 285102 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also gave me some other thing < 1336290962 244755 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're people trying to scam their way into a job they aren't qualified for < 1336290967 561434 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thousand word text to sort by frequency < 1336290970 73046 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be perfectly intelligent < 1336290972 733929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay, true. < 1336290973 190011 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1336290988 157714 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine a lot of the people caught by fizzbuzz are smarter than average people with useless liberal arts degrees who can't pay rent anymore < 1336290994 479059 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-229-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1336290998 270265 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned shame programming ability *isn't* identical to intelligence. :P < 1336291012 658789 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did this in the simplest way possible and the guy gave me shit that i didn't use some sort of hashing algorithm to keep count during a single iteration < 1336291013 661837 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what do you mean? my ability to write PHP code proves I'm a world-class olympic rockstar genius < 1336291027 224452 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, given some of the code I've seen, at best only weakly correlated. :/ < 1336291030 908841 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know you learn a lot about the company in an interview < 1336291037 292985 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more than they learn about you < 1336291041 546912 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i told him that it still wouldn't have been perfect and started describing to him the ultimate way of doing it char by char < 1336291045 478715 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a trie < 1336291048 173139 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℙℍℙ < 1336291050 818322 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he bailed out < 1336291051 272211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically each assembly language instruction seems to be a set of register manipulations not implied by the mnemonic in question < 1336291058 782268 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my eyes, i can see forevenr < 1336291073 949057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get asked to do a fizzbuzz program at an interview, do they tell you which one's fizz and which one's buzz? < 1336291091 913069 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they did "hip" and "hop" on mine < 1336291101 987633 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they're *both* fizz, man? < 1336291113 1572 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would be called fizzfizz < 1336291125 32949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'd have to do it in Befunge < 1336291127 959575 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably you get more information because the company interviews more people than the number of places you interview at < 1336291143 402589 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so their interview performance is more of a well-worn expression of their identity < 1336291146 106120 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haneb < 1336291155 595492 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have definitely learned more about them than they about me < 1336291163 601001 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some privately-owned startup < 1336291182 368581 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :owned by some aging guy who put his family's savings into it < 1336291199 856967 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kind of hoping that next time I need to get a job, I can just be like "look at all this stuff i made [url]" and skip the fizzbuzz stuff < 1336291201 644890 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ended up buying a lot of stylish furniture for the office < 1336291214 379435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you program assembly languages codes you should learn the effect of the instructions. < 1336291214 869704 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for bonus points, make the url fizzbuzz < 1336291220 829882 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yes < 1336291232 752762 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be sure to put up a gratuitous implementation of fizzbuzz too < 1336291235 107871 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but... i don't like the fact that theres no shortcuts < 1336291252 69373 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a version in AVR assembly which uses self-modifying code < 1336291274 319265 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't side-effects be friendly ... < 1336291275 508324 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fpga < 1336291281 51785 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336291285 997993 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but write it in verilog, not vhdl < 1336291318 182549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336291345 624859 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a board made with wire wrapped 7400 series DIP quad NAND gates < 1336291383 109492 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is for pussies, you want to do bga with a toaster < 1336291383 327202 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want to build a relay computer < 1336291388 302181 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't < 1336291389 872531 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i can get cheap relays somewhere < 1336291394 325129 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you ever been asked actual fizzbuzz-style interview questions? < 1336291405 33256 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's mostly a myth. < 1336291411 825660 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1336291420 439546 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc applies for jobs much finer than i < 1336291444 415204 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest i got was "implement fib(n) recursively, then iteratively, and write the time complexity of each" < 1336291450 573221 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ < 1336291456 867383 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first part of which is fizzbuzz level < 1336291507 806720 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i get the stable boy jobs < 1336291532 12836 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the finance company we had a written programming test which everyone got as the first thing in the day < 1336291538 246039 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was the first question < 1336291576 952223 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the idea of a Big Swinging Dick < 1336291577 424051 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write this recursively" seems like a strange thing to say, as opposed to "write this". < 1336291589 567762 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1336291592 389711 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: Liar's Poker? < 1336291612 97797 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're adept < 1336291623 4905 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah after i accepted the job, they sent me a copy of that book < 1336291638 656843 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"efficiently" is a reasonable constraint, I guess, but "do this recursively and iteratively" seems dangerously close to a game of "guess what I'm thinking". < 1336291640 841236 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they stick "training manual" on the front cover < 1336291646 499964 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1336291655 250639 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you finish it < 1336291660 91764 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336291672 913385 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the best small companies try to hire through personal connections < 1336291683 68527 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they hire through python.org/jobs < 1336291686 363094 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they know everyone coming in can at least pass fizzbuzz < 1336291690 889130 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't scale so well < 1336291699 611898 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think so then you've never relied on friends for doing a job < 1336291706 280282 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you end up severely disappointed < 1336291719 131399 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you hope each person you get expands your network a bit < 1336291738 802526 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone at ksplice has pretty much the same friends and so this didn't really work < 1336291746 509988 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, but the people working for you are for a reason not the people hiring newcomers < 1336291752 888745 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because they don't know how to < 1336291755 997095 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hired like the entire MIT computing club as interns < 1336291764 898932 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a shortcut anyway. < 1336291767 892475 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this guy they'll rave about, he's just as likely to be good as he is to be weak < 1336291785 530821 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1336291787 789851 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get more information from it than you would from asking some write-code-which-also-happens-to-be-interesting question, you just get it faster. < 1336291787 925790 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain? < 1336291799 484050 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's true < 1336291808 884372 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it works in places with very strong compsci communities < 1336291809 60943 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in usual places < 1336291809 160517 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the usual run of the mill digital carpenters < 1336291839 25741 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: actually we moved to an online programming test which they could take before even the phone screen < 1336291864 335909 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1336291864 497850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1336291869 501087 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which theoretically saved a lot of time by going asynchronous < 1336291882 934270 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a place where people see computer programming as just a job, they'll be less likely to form connections based on the quality of someone's understanding < 1336291888 953485 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pecking order is decided by other things < 1336291896 610532 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily cheat on an online test, but it only wastes their time and ours < 1336291913 973946 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a place like a good university everyone will be looking up to the best h5x4rz < 1336291926 711946 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h sexars < 1336291935 108848 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If your plan is to cheat your way through the whole thing somehow, you'll probably start with the online test. < 1336291939 588931 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Joy of joys" now I'm getting junk SMS < 1336291942 680892 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hsex is like sex but better because it's in haskell < 1336291948 735976 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: true < 1336291959 451982 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, it's phishing junk SMS. < 1336291970 676687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From shady-ass companies apparently in Panama < 1336291981 416054 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, at least you can pretend to have friends! < 1336291983 690676 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: WAL-MART CUSTOMER: U have won a free $100 gift card! < 1336291997 943992 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of U < 1336291998 658748 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: BESTBUY, actually. < 1336292001 109539 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get going < 1336292034 232733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another one saying "we are giving away free overstock iPad 2's" < 1336292043 327464 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was nice chatting with you all, pikhq_ shachaf and itidus21 and kmc and Taneb and zzo38 < 1336292055 56080 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice chatting with you cheater__ < 1336292064 973796 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should definitely arrange a repeat < 1336292071 195454 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know where to find me :) < 1336292071 803484 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have my PA call your PA < 1336292085 608084 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders where to find kmc < 1336292098 365864 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Mid-Cambridge, obviously < 1336292103 41215 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, cheater__ < 1336292105 930930 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :berkeley basement dungeons < 1336292114 297340 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1336292129 332468 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice place, Mid-Cambridge. < 1336292157 252776 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should move there. < 1336292206 510729 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could work for Ksploracle < 1336292212 378390 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ITAoogle < 1336292226 15098 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought big companies were evil. < 1336292239 317207 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Akamanotboughtbygooglejustyet < 1336292251 317710 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1336292253 46340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the company interview ever ask you questions, such as, how much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? < 1336292260 181141 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not i < 1336292266 368487 :lexande!~lexande@lenin.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1336292270 490677 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande! < 1336292272 751453 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexande < 1336292285 105276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, how many different colors of socks do you own? < 1336292287 468777 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :octande < 1336292326 717433 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my socks are gray/grey and need to be washed < 1336292354 641461 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? < 1336292385 246158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did I tell you about my idea for a disruptive mobile social local web application platform? < 1336292389 501003 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called SockSwap < 1336292411 684077 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you figure out a way to make a non-reverse-engineerable lock yet? < 1336292413 513618 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, everyone has different sorts of socks, sometimes an odd number of one kind < 1336292431 887706 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you photograph your sock drawer using our iPhone™ app < 1336292445 282474 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it maches you with other people in your area who also have one of that kind of sock < 1336292463 432323 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which provides a platform for social engagement (coffee, fucking, founding of web startups) < 1336292469 8457 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I saw a Vietnamese soup place called iPho. < 1336292472 119179 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my socks are white with dark blue/black on the heels, toes, and with bands at the top < 1336292473 648122 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1336292475 271773 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the 'o' was an almost-Apple-logo. < 1336292475 856450 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: really? < 1336292478 333797 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1336292489 911300 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1336292499 587353 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it weird that I find it satisfying to report shit like that to the FCC? < 1336292522 600515 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FCC? < 1336292526 596298 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downtown Mountain View has a frozen yogurt shop called "yoogl". < 1336292528 683780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not, like USPTO? < 1336292543 28210 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to have Google-colored-and-fonted letters. < 1336292548 963250 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They changed that at one point, though. < 1336292558 461569 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Junk text messages and cell phone telemarketing. < 1336292564 556223 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1336292568 476620 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Can you report mine too? < 1336292570 387314 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3-media1.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/gVdl2TZJWcDEJj2yvLjAgw/l.jpg < 1336292576 657837 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh, I thought you meant iPho < 1336292578 286959 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thikhq_ in advance. < 1336292592 933689 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yep, that was the logo. < 1336292600 872595 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete violation of FCC regulations, and companies that do it and get caught (i.e. reported) get fined obscene amounts. < 1336292602 305828 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what other restaurants can be named this way < 1336292725 545478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How well do you know category theory and other mathematical things? < 1336292736 855547 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebok choy < 1336292739 57509 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty weak < 1336292791 255138 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bing Crab < 1336292821 718593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kiwikipedia < 1336292831 491582 :lexande!~lexande@lenin.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipad thai < 1336292847 964711 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :blexande < 1336292873 643603 :lexande!~lexande@lenin.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me? < 1336292883 764359 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instagram crackers < 1336292901 646556 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bless you, lexande < 1336292949 457380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple pie < 1336292968 383658 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Blants. < 1336293253 914435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make company, it is private so that nobody can purchase it and then mix it up too much < 1336294446 652490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to write a file for Internet Quiz Engine? (The documentation says that certain commands can only be used in certain areas, but this isn't precisely correct. Any command can be used in any area, although they won't necessarily do what you expect.) < 1336294539 944909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336294782 452392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the ? = ; commands are actually all equivalent, except that ? accepts an optional skip condition based on the answer to the previous question, and neither ? nor = will be skipped in a false conditional. < 1336295411 237000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336295434 282796 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336296252 841406 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel awful < 1336296255 232607 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1336296959 183144 :impomatic!~digital_w@31.185.185.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336297007 360987 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1336297344 690714 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: :( < 1336297347 340186 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why / how? < 1336297425 202306 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tired and hungry < 1336297441 485565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm tired I don't feel like eating, and because I'm hungry I can't sleep < 1336297721 688176 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336297722 791751 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that blows < 1336298450 991188 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1336298809 307035 :cheater_!~cheater@e181159011.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1336299022 263333 :cheater__!~cheater@g229021225.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336299145 819329 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-146.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1336299522 354431 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-146.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336300589 537510 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-122-250.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336300785 475850 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-146.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1336301836 603540 :impomatic!~digital_w@31.185.185.170 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1336303879 508880 :impomatic!~digital_w@31.185.185.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336304538 198753 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336304880 309431 :impomatic!~digital_w@31.185.185.170 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1336305884 236185 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-35.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1336305887 237892 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-201.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336307718 991353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336307832 341028 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, do C++ compilers have a special rule to treat "main" as extern "C"? < 1336307888 809226 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1336307917 245672 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to emit a separate main function which calls the C++ main, or whatever. < 1336307942 541877 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"main" isn't the actual entry point < 1336307950 629638 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336307955 99113 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a c++ program starts with c++ main, exactly how that happens is unspecified magic afaik < 1336307965 191019 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the C++ runtime library could arrange to call a C++ name-mangled main < 1336307968 388446 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entry point does initialization and teardown before calling your name() < 1336307972 374351 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not how g++ does it apparently < 1336307978 957936 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, teardown comes after obviously < 1336307996 347791 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC gcc likes to generate the entry point as _start or something < 1336308006 116526 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stuff could be added to your main() instead of being in a separate entry point. < 1336308008 772740 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gcc doesn't generate _start < 1336308012 879962 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the C runtime library < 1336308025 672736 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fine "the gnu tools" < 1336308034 16823 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combined < 1336308060 735103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: main isn't allowed to be recursive in C++, partly because of this sort of thing < 1336308062 626241 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C runtime library and/or libc < 1336308066 955134 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting < 1336308192 257550 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if main were the entry point, returning from main would not work < 1336308194 567500 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on Linux < 1336308261 808290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would work on DOS < 1336308274 484817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack starts out with a 0 on it, and there's an exit instruction at memory location 0, with .com files < 1336308308 458536 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1336308329 502313 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilers could emit the appropriate exit code in place of returns from main. < 1336308345 226103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: another reason to make it not recursive < 1336308347 606240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but then you wouldn't be able to call main from elsewhere < 1336308354 786975 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is allowed in C? < 1336308360 232649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is, but not in C++ < 1336308361 773900 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it's allowed actually < 1336308363 966366 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336308370 952553 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen it done except in IOCCC entries < 1336308382 991380 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure there is "legitimate" code somewhere that does it < 1336308389 795850 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably to re-enter the options parser < 1336308422 194779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it'd be really bad style, you should just use a wrapper function for that < 1336308422 373814 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is C++ code at google which is like void Foo::reset() { this->~Foo(); new (this) Foo; } < 1336308425 875710 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything's possible < 1336308443 533862 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, it's really bad style, but I'm sure someone has done it and thought themselves quite clever for it < 1336308462 515401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, that code is just a bizarre way to call the destructor then constructor, isn't it? < 1336308468 560828 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336308508 580741 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no C++ language lawyer but I'm pretty sure it's allowed (maybe not if reset is virtual) < 1336308518 745884 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it's bizarre < 1336308529 913205 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses a couple of C++ features that many professional C++ programmers don't know about < 1336308541 174144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if reset is virtual and the destructor is not virtual, you'd be asking for trouble < 1336308550 409005 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336308566 556513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can only see one rarely known feature there (placement new) < 1336308572 734778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the other one? calling a destructor manually? < 1336308576 589698 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336308586 924149 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess even if you aren't aware this can be done, the syntax is what you expect < 1336308588 353314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a function, I don't see why you /couldn't/ do that < 1336308593 788662 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1336308605 769951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's nontrivial to parse, there are larger issues in C++ parsing < 1336308615 401297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did you know that C++ 11 allows you to use >> to close two < brackets?) < 1336308621 673755 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336308638 414236 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that there are valid C++03 programs which are still valid under this rule but behave differently? < 1336308640 408385 :Kray!~kray@217.24.101.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :154702 kmc there is C++ code at google which is like void Foo::reset() { this->~Foo(); new (this) Foo; } < 1336308646 993698 :Kray!~kray@217.24.101.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't fucking use that < 1336308647 875577 :Kray!~kray@217.24.101.225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1336308664 786716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, that's hilarious; what does it use to hide the > > from the C++11 version? < 1336308694 136502 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an example in http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1757.html < 1336308700 990023 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::cout << (Y>::c >::c>::c) << '\n'; < 1336308722 873042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, the syntax for placement new is really weird, you'd think this->Foo() would be more natural < 1336308737 903469 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of weird too < 1336308739 172980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because placement new is not the opposite of any sort of delete, it just calls the constructor with an arbitrary pointer < 1336308742 43247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it'd need a cast < 1336308759 520214 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're calling a method on something that isn't yet a valid pointer to an object of that type < 1336308766 921547 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can overload operator new with any argument type you like < 1336308767 281174 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if c++ allows mysterious invisible dependencies on this that make destroying this illegal even if you don't use this in the source before reconstructing < 1336308778 565528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if it's not a virtual method, there's clearly no intrinsic problem with that at all < 1336308808 554909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a nonvirtual method foo and a variable obj of type Obj, obj->foo(x,y) compiles to Obj::foo(obj,x,y) < 1336308816 506214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no difference between this and any of the other arguments < 1336308825 368019 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pool pool; new (pool) Foo; < 1336308835 290365 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes a lot more sense syntactiaclyl than pool->Foo(); < 1336308854 988642 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say if your compiler copies all code from the class into constructed objects, and clears out the code when destroying an object < 1336308855 518194 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's an implementation detail, in a sense < 1336308870 677798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: right, but it may be one that's implied by the language < 1336308873 673928 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that usually you can call ((Foo*) 0)->bar() if bar is a non-virtual method < 1336308893 565008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the stack in C (auto variables in C have stack-like semantics, so even if you're not storing them on a stack, you have to store them on something that works like a stack) < 1336308906 510428 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you know ((Foo*) malloc(sizeof(Foo)))->bar() < 1336308910 950661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the standard require this to be non-null in a cal? < 1336308914 892350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*call < 1336308921 580157 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that's a reasonable syntax for placement new < 1336308927 103550 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it violates expectations < 1336308931 756018 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be hardly the first C++ feature to do so < 1336308944 677856 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't know < 1336308947 99767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, to me placement new violates expressions, because I expect new, in some sense, to be the opposite of delete < 1336308953 590514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and placement new isn't the opposite of anything < 1336308958 921128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*violates expectations < 1336308968 788670 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can overload operator delete as well < 1336308982 484136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and operator new, can't you? < 1336308984 129315 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're implementing a memory pool, you would do both < 1336309006 428146 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nobody knows about this feature or can be bothered to use it < 1336309008 48960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a memory pool for a specific class < 1336309018 668207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not the most common application < 1336309018 814720 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the overload returns a void* < 1336309034 983277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you could overload it outside a class < 1336309042 161638 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/new/memory-pools.html < 1336309062 804117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even overloading it within a class makes sense when you're taking an allocator as an argument to the constructor, I guess < 1336309078 862295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen an STL that does that (not sure if it was /the/ STL or some third-party one) < 1336309163 41677 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some calling conventions pass "this" in a special way < 1336309181 961139 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default calling convention in Visual C++ in fact < 1336309231 722617 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86, 'this' is passed in ECX and all other arguments are on the stack < 1336309248 647203 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if there's a rationale or if someone at microsoft was just hitting the crackpipe particularly hard that day < 1336309331 201475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally if passing arguments in registers, you have to come up with some complicated rule for deciding what goes where in all possible circumstances < 1336309337 477292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this always goes in ECX" is a pretty simple rule < 1336309342 750351 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by "/the/ STL" you mean SGI's reference implementation? < 1336309365 753322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I was referring to APIs, so I mean the API specified by the standard < 1336309370 319345 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336309387 982384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether or not constructors can take allocators as argument is definitely an API issue < 1336309391 943386 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :STL containers usually take an optional template argument specifying the allocator to use < 1336309655 738892 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the idea in thiscall is that methods frequently invoke other methods on the same object < 1336309664 226455 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :often without doing much additional work < 1336309918 858005 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there any reason you couldn't store C function activation records in a garbage-collected heap? < 1336309947 846554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, but it would have to have stack semantics, for determining what copy of the variable to look at < 1336309978 492710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing forcing it to /be/ a stack, it just has to /act like/ a stack < 1336309987 854421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that it's usable as a stack < 1336310028 823 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many things are < 1336310062 268690 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for determining what copy of the variable to look at, you just have a register that points to the current activation frame < 1336310072 327611 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can CPS transform so that you never need to restore old values of that register < 1336310082 658010 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing this for C is probably unreasonable, but is possible < 1336310113 107240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree this is usable as a stack < 1336310125 473117 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is a heap-allocated linked list, or a heap-allocated church-encoded linked list :) < 1336310295 332476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I entirely agree that a heap-allocated church-encoded linked list could be used for C auto variables < 1336310302 99972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would /still/ say that it's a stack < 1336310311 894087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a stack implemented in terms of an array, but it's still a stack < 1336310509 417783 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day I saw a bird that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck but isn't a duck < 1336310586 360640 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was a loon < 1336310629 822992 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take 2 arbitrary measurements of thing X, and they match type Y, then thing X must be type Y < 1336310659 854474 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologize for the mistakes. < 1336310661 92708 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but how did you know it was not a duck, if it did everything like a duck? < 1336310676 148291 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because someone who knows more about birds than I told me so < 1336310690 39779 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have asked for more proof < 1336310698 21535 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it quacks like a duck but not *exactly* like a duck < 1336310701 704613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as duck dna? < 1336310705 567576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the duck is in the details < 1336310754 183945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC: 'A "supermoon", bigger and brighter than usual, is seen in the night sky as it comes closer to the Earth' < 1336310766 211506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much closer? < 1336310768 27015 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a really alarming headline if you assume that scientists have no idea why it happened < 1336310805 736822 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: over 9000 feet < 1336310805 928761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i wasn't already alarmed by things < 1336310807 693479 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1336310885 941351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, 9000? < 1336310901 248074 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats no moon < 1336310909 848796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a space station < 1336310909 998088 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21++ < 1336310945 901968 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty ty < 1336310948 34086 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no dark side of the moon really < 1336310948 212176 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone remind me the workaround for the /top tab-completion bug in irssi < 1336310952 644361 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :matter of fact it's all dark < 1336311043 501602 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a conspiracy theory lab, in a suburb far far away < 1336311061 780829 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plans are made about what the reptiles have dubbed the supermoon < 1336311107 650990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1336311976 476365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1336312605 168779 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1336312640 597539 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah! Got sasl to work after disabling DH-BLOWFISH < 1336313022 259313 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastefirtunes < 1336313031 741569 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastefirtunes: not found < 1336313037 806371 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastefortunes < 1336313044 725192 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14206 < 1336313122 412035 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clicked the link and i didnt get any tunes :/ < 1336313130 430462 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even went and pasted it < 1336313136 136209 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no tunes appeared < 1336313141 412957 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid hackego < 1336313151 187875 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: paste fortunes < 1336313194 457366 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: paste for tunes -______- < 1336313220 684670 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: so it takes paste and gives you tunes? < 1336313228 288913 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1336313235 172317 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but thatd be great < 1336313256 57676 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other way around < 1336313289 624473 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thatd be stupid < 1336313365 334494 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastefortunes < 1336313371 51342 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20091 < 1336313526 750401 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-32-248.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336313659 164365 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1336313762 752159 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what kind of daemon is thatd? < 1336313946 149348 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336314078 526032 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give rep+ to the first one to decipher what this piece of python code does (lambda x: (lambda s,(x,y): ([(x[0],y[0])]+s(s,(x[1:],y[1:]))) if len(y)>0 else [])((lambda s,(x,y): ([(x[0],y[0])]+s(s,(x[1:],y[1:]))) if len(y)>0 else []),(x,x[1:]))) < 1336314113 844491 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like zip < 1336314153 632058 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip`ap`tail < 1336314175 362416 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip`ap`tail? < 1336314183 570539 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (zip`ap`tail) [1..10] < 1336314184 306075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,6),(6,7),(7,8),(8,9),(9,10)] < 1336314196 878043 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?quote aztec < 1336314197 12574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail - the Aztec god of consecutive numbers < 1336314207 762295 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@rep+ Deewiant < 1336314207 892409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `dummy' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse < 1336314220 173599 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@rep < 1336314220 305024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1336314226 366102 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@rep nortti < 1336314226 494963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti < 1336314237 271127 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nortti < 1336314237 434229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti has a karma of 1 < 1336314244 595644 :impomatic!~digital_w@37.152.201.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336314247 583967 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ Deewiant < 1336314247 715493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's karma raised to 2. < 1336314350 176481 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is zip`ap`tail builtin in haskell? < 1336314356 257645 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty zip < 1336314357 21853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] < 1336314358 423063 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty ap < 1336314359 231321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1336314359 852873 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty tail < 1336314360 594976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] < 1336314395 754278 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "builtin" part of that is the syntax, zip`ap`tail means ap zip tail < 1336314453 782632 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which means ap(zip,tail) or rather (ap(zip))(tail) in a language with C-style function call syntax.) < 1336314544 317856 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty ap :: (c -> a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b) -- the relevant Monad instance expanded < 1336314545 14332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall c a b. (c -> a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> c -> b < 1336315304 706242 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1336315309 302211 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello guys < 1336315826 437835 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma AnotherTest < 1336315826 568681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest has a karma of 0 < 1336315834 234899 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ AnotherTest < 1336315834 468575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest's karma raised to 1. < 1336315840 261142 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma- AnotherTest < 1336315840 477792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest's karma lowered to 0. < 1336317166 455890 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1336317182 774333 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nortti < 1336317182 906172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti has a karma of 1 < 1336317187 497757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. < 1336317199 78931 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma itidus21 < 1336317199 231580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 has a karma of 1 < 1336317216 50478 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what about my karma < 1336317237 603803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason < 1336318594 234208 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1336318607 435976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1336318626 147160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:56:37: what language would you propose as an alternative? < 1336318626 327266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:56:44: to C++? C < 1336318626 345691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57:13: well, it really depends on what you're using it for < 1336318627 710994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57:14: Not really an alternative. < 1336318629 716159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57:31: since C doesn't even check types < 1336318631 711881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57:43: and also, it doesn't allow for user defined types < 1336318633 708243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're high < 1336318684 854114 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant user-defined types that have member functions < 1336318696 987223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has those, too < 1336318698 970456 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C doesn't check types [properly] < 1336318702 561167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1336318705 490228 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: why is your nick AnotherTest < 1336318707 873459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as C++ does < 1336318709 747788 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1336318719 838173 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is yours nortti? < 1336318723 342886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are minor differences in terms of const, and C++ has a safer version of casting < 1336318732 165775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's it < 1336318741 499242 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's first clarify which version of C we are talking about < 1336318747 865555 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSI? < 1336318749 283730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89, C99, doesn't matter one bit < 1336318757 35114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically applies to K&R too, if anyone still used it < 1336318759 418592 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Around a year ago you were going to hack some pty-related stuff into tup, but I'm not getting coloured output from clang, what's up! < 1336318761 295820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, C11 is out too < 1336318763 842059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C11 too! < 1336318773 40551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was? < 1336318773 877927 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, define a type in C that has a member function? < 1336318787 298316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct type_in_c { void (*member_function)(int); }; < 1336318789 383430 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://groups.google.com/group/tup-users/msg/b303970d79ed6edc < 1336318803 350487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :( < 1336318805 849685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Stupid archiving. < 1336318808 471149 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I used nick nörtti in ohjelmointiputka.net but when I tried using it on ircnet when I wanted to join #ohjelmointiputka my own irc client crashed < 1336318818 176578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I didn't do it, ask tup-users if anything's happened. :p < 1336318828 727184 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Presumably not :-P < 1336318830 318872 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I used nortti and it just stuck < 1336318842 279816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ISTR *something* happening along those lines. < 1336318874 565759 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti ah I see < 1336318894 660338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336318901 290264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BAM128&curid=3491&diff=32356&oldid=30896 < 1336318921 35506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1336318924 618896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1336318925 247820 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't be bothered to ask, I'm just putting 'CC = clang -fcolor-diagnostics' in my Tupfile < 1336318942 604786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, I think that might have been the solution. Or maybe I'm thinking of ninja. < 1336318945 401794 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it consists of? < 1336318955 977611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks like a test edit, more than anything else < 1336318957 580767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: What? < 1336318961 720141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone who doesn't understand English and thinks they do < 1336318964 544196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rolled it back < 1336318979 725830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to revert it with a meaningful edit summary, but I suppose that works too :p < 1336318993 813528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's someone trying to fix the grammar, except they're not any good at it < 1336318995 231190 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It happened in ninja, at least (its bug report is the top Google result I've run into a couple of times now when wondering whether tup does it) < 1336319002 349052 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should I use ninja? < 1336319002 808833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right. < 1336319008 19333 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just noticed the edition, found I a little weird < 1336319012 620249 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*editing < 1336319018 121985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1336319026 33861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I dunno. I'd stick with tup. < 1336319032 852447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With ninja, you need to write a script to generate your build script. < 1336319043 568331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually in Python, since they have an outputting library for it. < 1336319061 331997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of yucky. Good for things like Chrome where you need MAXIMUM SPEED and the build rules don't change often, since that's what it was designed for. < 1336319063 110908 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I asked you because you're the "DO THE ARROWS GO UPWARDS" guy when it comes to build systems < 1336319072 858126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ninja's arrows do go upwards, though, yes. < 1336319083 859441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ninja supports multiple output files, which is what got me interested in it in the first place (for Haskell). < 1336319088 89198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a patch in ninja! < 1336319120 599755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd just stick with tup though. Especially since variants are coming. < 1336319130 764146 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the most minimal programming language existing? < 1336319140 889007 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in minimal typing to do a certain task) < 1336319158 118359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: That is not really a meaningful question. < 1336319166 133979 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1336319170 225200 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me attempt to refine < 1336319185 32336 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? MIT Scheme says (eval '(+ 1 1)) is invalid < 1336319188 928359 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm I'll fail < 1336319192 35726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: It is. < 1336319196 509984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to pass an environment too. < 1336319206 580145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I find a website that puts an in an URL and later omits a _ from the same URL, what should I assume? broken parser for a Markdown-like language? < 1336319214 414185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the was replacing a _) < 1336319223 544718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1336319224 248560 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: repl.it didn't require that < 1336319229 673486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Then repl.it is broken. < 1336319237 26184 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That reminds me: re. variants, the thread on them currently ends with Mike asking for your thoughts. < 1336319238 36017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, rather, has some implementation-specific extension. < 1336319241 353127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consult R5RS. < 1336319247 502124 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is it not meaningful? < 1336319251 381205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I have that email set as unread so I can reply to it. < 1336319259 156381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Because "a given task" is pretty vague. < 1336319265 86661 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1336319265 402771 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Alright, just checking. < 1336319277 541917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wrote that before your parenthical; I interpreted "minimal" very differently beforehand, which kinda proved my point :P) < 1336319286 496091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess I'll do it now, since you've prodded me. < 1336319291 749990 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1336319298 787225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need to reply to Conor McBride :( < 1336319360 459970 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd e-mail less, you'd have to reply less. < 1336319380 2918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly email at all! < 1336319381 462435 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language allows the shortest implementation for an algorithm that solves the traveling-salesmen problem using a brute-fore approach without it being a built-in feature? < 1336319386 622663 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(better?) < 1336319400 226120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, that's not strictly true. < 1336319415 338056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Define "built-in feature"... I could split the algorithm into two parts and give those one instruction each. < 1336319449 663189 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably means "existing language". < 1336319449 844536 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :existing language anyway, I doubt any language has such a feature so just drop that last part < 1336319468 669417 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1336319474 12299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That question is still probably impossible to answer, since you don't know what the shortest program for the task in any given language is. < 1336319476 832444 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you know what I mean < 1336319477 741402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't (can't) < 1336319480 620975 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just anwser < 1336319488 102575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: It is not possible to answer. < 1336319493 571008 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt it. < 1336319500 250742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Very well, you answer it then. < 1336319501 712657 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not possible for you. < 1336319516 42516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you're still suffering from Dunning-Kruger. < 1336319517 954269 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask the question; it is thus only logical that I do not know the answer < 1336319538 602346 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's possible, just prove a minimum length in each language and then enumerate all programs up to that length. < 1336319551 185548 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, maybe the proof isn't so easy.) < 1336319566 265205 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not start about the physics guy who wasn't a physics guy again < 1336319567 828889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: FSVO enumerate that involves a human-written proof at each step. < 1336319580 161420 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's still clear that you suffer autism < 1336319584 804448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1336319587 128429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go away already. < 1336319601 631150 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1336319606 246585 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm free to come here < 1336319607 312682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not at each step, only for each language. < 1336319612 529206 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. before the enumeration. < 1336319649 449610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: please don't insult people like that < 1336319655 58898 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try not to < 1336319658 429712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You failed. < 1336319663 796290 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1336319667 389610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you really did try, you'd apologise afterwards.) < 1336319684 209803 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, because you sort of insulted me to < 1336319686 366572 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1336319695 562942 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to make a habit of that every time I visit < 1336319704 971177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've only been here twice. < 1336319708 438878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whatever. < 1336319712 226692 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have < 1336319721 988161 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does that mean it can't be a habit? < 1336319723 294869 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336319765 263829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The judge and attorneys have to question the child to determine the communication skills of the child and also question to determine if the child understands the difference between true and false, and will tell the truth." < 1336319777 649842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't they do that with /adults/? < 1336319792 679192 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the judge and attorneys are adults. < 1336319854 587785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about witnesses < 1336319867 815520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they get them to swear oaths, but I'm not sure everyone has respect for oaths < 1336319873 248889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1336319890 246895 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1336319895 944900 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1336319895 963472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336319900 275665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye ais523. Hi ais523. Bye ais523. Hi ais523. < 1336319905 625798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Unity has increased Konversation's capacity for bizarre typos quite a bit < 1336319917 765514 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah unity < 1336319920 813739 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't like it < 1336319921 865361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both in opportunities, and bizarreness < 1336319926 330221 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I don't use I guess < 1336319948 573264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was alt-nothing r, rather than alt-t r < 1336319948 852071 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on ubuntu? < 1336319954 363415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336319961 797800 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.*? < 1336319963 674813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually rather like unity, but some of the keybindings are unfortunate < 1336319966 149383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12.04 < 1336319969 70801 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336319975 133259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I can change them? < 1336319979 275045 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1336319985 965345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads up compizconfig < 1336319990 922281 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to pick a custom keyboard layout I think < 1336319999 912825 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike unity. All the bloat and inteface is horrible < 1336320000 798083 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well at least I did it once in 10.04 < 1336320019 869142 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with nortti, my computer can't handle it properly < 1336320028 802733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy < 1336320043 781634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have super-space rather than just super, and alt-super-space rather than just alt < 1336320052 751350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have done that earlier < 1336320060 671022 :impomatic!~digital_w@37.152.201.108 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1336320075 661396 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: do you know my computer's specs? < 1336320079 645874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: unity, bloated? that doesn't fit my view of it < 1336320085 249318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems more primitive than bloated < 1336320091 145824 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Unfortunately not < 1336320104 520119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I consider bloat a statement about features rather than load < 1336320113 527863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's putting too much load on a system, that's simply a bug < 1336320117 3172 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really, with the menu that constantly flops in and out? < 1336320127 753188 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Thinkpad T20 with 700MHz Pentium III and 64MB of RAM < 1336320177 367431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: that's no longer the default optoin < 1336320179 469016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*option < 1336320183 445194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have it up constantly < 1336320184 724936 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1336320191 658081 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least they made a good choice there < 1336320195 376645 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define too much load. Using that logic almost all new software is filled with bugs :p < 1336320208 880357 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on my system at least) < 1336320219 614875 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: jfischoff < 1336320253 521844 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I'm on an Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.53GHz with 1002.4MiB RAM < 1336320276 923988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: substantially more than would be reasonably expected for what the software actually does < 1336320312 816646 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to stay with 10.04 < 1336320320 812192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That doesn't work if you have unreasonable expectations. < 1336320323 837790 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: try lubuntu < 1336320325 533690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1336320343 518074 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I might, also, xubuntu; is that notable? < 1336320354 497861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: only 1G? although that should be easily enough for almost anything, sadly programs rarely assume that any more < 1336320358 920336 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: almost as slow as ubuntu < 1336320364 101870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1002.4 is not 1024, that's an interesting decision… < 1336320377 430059 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :he should have said 1GiB < 1336320379 701983 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1336320390 504317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: no, 1 GiB = 1024 MiB < 1336320394 686817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gio, if you want to be pedantic. < 1336320397 931793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1002.4MiB != 1024MiB < 1336320398 315147 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I switch them around < 1336320399 867104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1336320419 212570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even one megabel is enough sound intensity to destroy the Earth < 1336320425 713946 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, on this machine just 1G < 1336320432 975477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably even one kilobel, come to think of it < 1336320437 646086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not really "sadly". There's no point devoting time and effort to minimising memory footprint if everybody has more. With that kind of argument, everyone should code like we're using Altair 8800s. < 1336320443 580184 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it enough < 1336320456 851522 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "o" is an abbreviation for "octet" I think I invented and almost nobody will understand, so be careful about where you use it.) < 1336320459 900972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, programs still take a noticeable amount of time to load and execute < 1336320467 353516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've seen it elsewhere < 1336320476 87091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least < 1336320476 195481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's useful for pedantry and also arguing with pedants! < 1336320486 247156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's mostly unrelated to RAM. < 1336320489 545361 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, but not for much else. :-) < 1336320491 951302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Disk is a huge factor in that. < 1336320497 781024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1336320500 168888 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1336320509 18168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get an SSD you'll notice everything go noticeably faster; if you run from a RAMdisk, even faster. < 1336320513 183258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RAM disk < 1336320513 201446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder how long it takes to fill a 1GiB array with consecutive integers? < 1336320526 948203 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :would depend of the memory access? < 1336320533 65918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Faster if you use SSE ;) < 1336320535 862282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Vorpal. < 1336320539 295831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't check, only have 927MB free < 1336320542 737620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the filling-big-arrays-unreasonably-fast guy. < 1336320547 252087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*cough* cfunge) < 1336320548 270139 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well even I assume that my system has at least 2MB of RAM and I try to minimize memory footprint < 1336320556 90872 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott picked it up from my web site and may have spread it around, at least. < 1336320561 301990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I haven't. < 1336320562 424236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know how long it takes to fill a 1GiB array with consecutive integers? < 1336320566 892072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But I have seen it elsewhere too, I think. < 1336320582 311702 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you've used it here at least a couple of times, which kinda counts. < 1336320592 398404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is the terminology propagation centre of the world. < 1336320626 859628 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the "Dragon Book" still up-to-date? < 1336320634 868331 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard people saying it's not. < 1336320641 484091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your definition of "up-to-date". < 1336320643 639133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a quick websearch implies that both "Mio" and "mebioctet" are in Christian Biere's signature < 1336320645 871203 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would suck because I orded it < 1336320653 699813 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ordered < 1336320656 571395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey doesn't like it and recommends something else instead. < 1336320671 952953 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :up-to-date := useful nowadays < 1336320683 8252 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I'd say so < 1336320690 747680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Who's Christian Biere? < 1336320690 863914 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays := today < 1336320699 160966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea < 1336320699 659537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone who has both "Mio" and "mebioctet" in their signature < 1336320700 432650 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :today := 06/05/2012 < 1336320700 450981 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: At least from what I have heard < 1336320708 882462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: You misspelled 2012-05-06. < 1336320711 126710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did try finding out, but apparently they're just some random person < 1336320712 675539 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1336320720 625043 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I live In belgium < 1336320725 61448 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :we write it like that here < 1336320738 805781 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is 6.5.2012 < 1336320746 828699 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the English language prescribes a correct notation for dates < 1336320769 234567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO does! I think they need a militia to enforce their standards. < 1336320815 408493 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ISO, they'd better bother with Javascript < 1336320843 778429 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is ISO standard yyyy-mm-dd? < 1336320859 973308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. (It's more involved than that, but yes.) < 1336320875 142905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's not quite perfect, since the full yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss format is ugly because of the T. < 1336320876 627536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss then a letter for the timezone, typically Z for UTC < 1336320883 36634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's more involved than that. < 1336320883 376002 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's discrimination elliott < 1336320889 460381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: What? < 1336320901 394578 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's assuming the culture of everyone has the Christian religion < 1336320910 793042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is discrimination, exactly? < 1336320916 409676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: people mostly use the Gregorian date system whether Christian or not < 1336320935 269867 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, I was just teasing elliott < 1336320938 471188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ddate isn't in the coreutils package any more < 1336320946 701473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/easing/rolling/ < 1336320947 54440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even in the repositories, under that name at least < 1336320952 292612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hey, those are both words.) < 1336320967 243472 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "trolling" < 1336320976 992283 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: rolling with a t in front of it < 1336320978 799249 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you find a reference older than 2009-07-05? < 1336320980 299498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the repositories under any name < 1336320984 582130 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is rolling exactly? < 1336320994 629592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: the gerund form of "roll" < 1336320999 604266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it < 1336321005 743731 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is roll, exactly? < 1336321012 238693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, present participle of "roll" < 1336321020 575274 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you're an empiricist, elliott? < 1336321040 89221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/roll#Verb < 1336321056 317165 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks, that's what I call some definiton < 1336321062 711863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I didn't realize it had 27 different meanings < 1336321070 160686 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh wait < 1336321074 446481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :27. (transitive) This word needs a definition. Please help out and add a definition, then remove the text {{rfdef}}.  [quotations ▼] < 1336321079 247081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, wiktionary! < 1336321080 630632 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is a definition? < 1336321109 243564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: you probably have enough information to find out yourself < 1336321113 137309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you even know the answer already! < 1336321124 911329 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but how can that information be trusted? < 1336321144 258262 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose the defintion of defintion would be wrong? < 1336321152 657455 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I suppose that's impossible. < 1336321164 714178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: eventually, sooner or later, you have to trust something or someone < 1336321167 913022 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then the definition of wrong would be wrong :(. < 1336321176 77035 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1336321181 709715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not irony < 1336321187 63442 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1336321188 186582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, maybe it is < 1336321200 271330 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it all depends on the defintion < 1336321202 670148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if a dictionary did misdefine "wrong", that would indeed be ironic < 1336321203 284011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably nothing is ironic, considering how much people say isn't < 1336321209 245460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it was done by mistake < 1336321216 335094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but if the definition of wrong is itself wrong, not as a mistake done by a dictionary, would that be ironic? < 1336321235 749638 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott < 1336321237 873917 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have point < 1336321240 500051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not even sure the concept of wrongness makes sense wrt definitions in natural languages < 1336321247 132152 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then the definition of ironic would be wrong < 1336321260 154884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think this explains the Alanis Morissette song. < 1336321265 653671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in computer languages, it's possible to have an objectively wrong definition, though (such as one that's incompatible with the desired semantics) < 1336321279 551845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's genuinely ironic that the song is meant to be about irony and yet doesn't know what irony is < 1336321288 254262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *song* doesn't know what irony is? < 1336321295 77326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it doesn't. < 1336321312 706472 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but the semantics parser will still give an error < 1336321317 806763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that the existence of those lyrics of the song imply that their author doesn't know what irony is < 1336321327 830689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: you don't know what you're talking about < 1336321327 985616 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the language does not consists of only a syntax parser < 1336321336 177703 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consist < 1336321341 138972 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how so? < 1336321352 486944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concurs < 1336321378 53715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using the lies-to-first-years definition of "semantics", rather than the mathematical definition < 1336321399 283613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies-to-first-years :D < 1336321405 907448 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was never in first year :( < 1336321407 10369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by analogy with lies-to-children < 1336321410 855009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know, it's amusing < 1336321419 564186 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather pick lies-to-children then < 1336321431 609361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually saw that lie made a few months ago < 1336321439 463155 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it :( < 1336321448 477517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: do people seriously teach children compiler design? < 1336321455 764049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Belgium they do. < 1336321458 751372 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :children teach themselves < 1336321461 445224 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how things go < 1336321476 585649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, I think; now I'm wondering if I could have written a compiler before I turned 18 < 1336321490 954501 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible, since I've done so. < 1336321497 205526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to have thought of doing so, for one thing; I definitely could have learnt < 1336321498 181293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not ais523. < 1336321503 300652 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: if you are interested in compiler development I would recommend reading crenshaw's Let's build a compiler < 1336321503 991716 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you wouldn't be able to if if you could < 1336321507 816871 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if < 1336321521 948351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course I could, I read a book on compiler design before then < 1336321529 460447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later cited it in my Masters' project < 1336321558 340164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fun YouTube regression: the Pause button no longer changes to a Replay icon when the video ends (but clicking on it replays the video anyway) < 1336321577 784546 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: books, books, books! I'll first finish the books I'm currently reading; but thanks for the tip < 1336321607 566111 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: atually Let's build a compiler is a article series < 1336321655 505429 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It just occured to me that I haven't used youtube's own player to play youtube videos for a year < 1336321678 760890 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: oh < 1336321686 577979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: do you download them, violating the TOS, then play them in some other player? Or use a streaming player? < 1336321718 18203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that streaming and downloading look identical from the server's point of view, and mostly from the client's too, so it's weird that the distinction is made < 1336321746 393625 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: youtube-dl (download) currently, mactubes/youview (streaming) on my iBook < 1336321812 472881 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: it teaches how to build simple compiler on Pascal under SK*DOS compiling to m68k assembly < 1336321823 449023 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh pascal :( < 1336321831 283447 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to learn Pascal first then < 1336321839 284945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: meh, it's just a simplified algol 68 < 1336321847 608652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like the tailor of panama has the opening titles set in comic sans < 1336321859 167002 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I translated code to python even thought I don't really know pascal either < 1336321881 805735 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wan't that hard < 1336321895 634474 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: but I think you always make big mistakes if you don't really understand a language; you just don't notice it < 1336321946 745124 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to read the dragon book, I think that should be as well as those articles? < 1336321984 235056 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: pascal code used there is very easily readable without much pascal knowledge and I always sanity checked all my modifications and the seemed to work. Also I think that there is a forth version of Let's build a compiler < 1336322024 762022 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: dragon book is bit harder to learn from because it covers more < 1336322052 375318 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll be fine < 1336322060 379744 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's intended to learn from < 1336322064 295348 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that shouldn't be a problem < 1336322065 205769 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It wasn't that hard < 1336322097 421735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows that an intent to teach always translates to being easy to be taught by < 1336322135 456172 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B936.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336322222 787059 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how can you be sure everyone does? < 1336322229 714223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1336322230 749015 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should redefine everyone < 1336322236 65387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336322262 395938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: this sort of needless pedantry really doesn't add much to the conversation, save it for compilers < 1336322314 97252 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define everyone '(everyone who knows that an intent to teach always translates to being easy to be taught by)) < 1336322329 599873 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: again, I'm just fooling with elliott's urge to define things < 1336322342 101632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: yes, and it is not a useful thing to do < 1336322344 370856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ooling/rolling/. Wait... < 1336322361 997998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversations go much faster if you're not throwing in pointless trolling every few lines < 1336322365 694850 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree, but I can't help it < 1336322377 171368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: is this some sort of Internet version of Tourette's? < 1336322385 415069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it that you actually /can/ help it < 1336322387 263087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just don't want to? < 1336322387 453680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who can't help but troll should avoid IRC < 1336322418 852951 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't help to because elliott insulted me more than once < 1336322441 930373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: this is a pretty bad explanation < 1336322442 719935 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree < 1336322447 997309 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because I'm trying to make him stop with the definition thing < 1336322453 304332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what a "mutual recrimination cycle" is? < 1336322460 289954 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1336322469 693078 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm guessing < 1336322471 226187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did "the definition thing" once to try and help you find an answer to your extremely vague question. < 1336322476 315444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's when one person does something to annoy someone else, and they respond in kind (or worse), and the first person responds in kind (or worse) < 1336322479 243981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gets out of hand < 1336322502 724514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going to respond to someone annoying you, try to do so in a less bad way than the original, not a similar or worse way < 1336322510 969037 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true < 1336322513 93277 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realize that < 1336322513 399319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only does it prevent it getting out of hand, it also lets you take the moral high ground and go around being smug < 1336322523 577310 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win-win < 1336322605 832390 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tbh, elliott, you did it more than once; but let's not continue the viscous circle < 1336322624 839741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure you, the circle will be as solid as they come. < 1336322691 457099 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1336322707 870448 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there still esolang boards? < 1336322714 327490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: solidity is a state of maximum viscosity < 1336322730 805054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oops. < 1336322733 538133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: The wiki. < 1336322746 644816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: kareha on esoteric.voxelperfect.net was disabled because nobody used it, and I have no idea what's happened to esoteric.sange.fi < 1336322756 135358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue shut the forum down when I took over the wiki since it got tons of spam and nobody used it. < 1336322757 747541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alt.lang.intercal still exists, even though nobody posts there < 1336322758 811771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have an archive at http://esolangs.org/forum/. < 1336322786 798288 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BUY LOST DVD WITH LOWEST PRICE" < 1336322787 863465 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1336322805 24119 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound like an esoteric programming language :p < 1336322805 81802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nice.. but the idea is difficult to understand. Life is much more hard to live than you can imagine.." < 1336323099 428893 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gun Holsters That Shoot You in the Leg, A Flammable Fire Extinguisher, Hand Sanitizer That Adds Bacteria to Your Skin, The Laundry Detergent That Shreds Clothes, The Flashlight That Can Stop Your Heart < 1336323144 188258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1336323168 910345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is still the best spam thread from the forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/kareha.pl/1302671493/l50 < 1336323184 723710 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.cracked.com/article_19805_the-5-most-baffling-product-recalls-all-time.html < 1336323208 323478 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336323312 673944 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering < 1336323329 394701 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'll try to be specific elliott, but I might fail) < 1336323350 892075 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :does any programming language exist where < 1336323371 475198 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where what? < 1336323375 893381 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me type < 1336323404 675859 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type-system works "top-down"; with that I mean that you evaluate an expression to a given type (rather than to an unknown type and then check it with the given type) < 1336323408 750330 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to press enter before finishing your sentence, you know. < 1336323423 674925 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry < 1336323440 548141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hey, I do it. :p < 1336323446 242767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly I type really fast.) < 1336323457 788955 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway so Real r = 5 + 5; would be Real r = Real(5) + Real(5); < 1336323466 866870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Haskell does that with typeclass overloading. < 1336323467 975443 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only do it accidentaly < 1336323474 246564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I understand what you mean. < 1336323486 81858 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than Real r = Int(5) + Int(5); (assuming 5 is an integer literal) < 1336323493 981304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5 + 5 :: Real) is really (fromInteger (5 :: Integer) + fromInteger (5 :: Integer) :: Real) under the hood. < 1336323507 926315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make overloaded values whose result depends on the type you use them as. < 1336323510 69415 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know < 1336323521 43981 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant, that, does a language exists where that isn't the case? < 1336323536 308297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I interpret that as "top-down" by your definition. < 1336323546 902627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that the "typeclass overloading" is not related to OOP classes, and is something OOP can't do.) < 1336323573 410417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many languages separate evaluation from type-checking, anyway. < 1336323578 236318 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there a language where the whole type system is done like this? < 1336323604 840539 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I actually find that this isn't that bad < 1336323610 859972 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the top-down approach) < 1336323675 639348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure what the top-down approach constitutes. How does type-checking differ for such a language? < 1336323685 53455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Perl's type system works like that < 1336323691 980622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it only has two types, list and scalar < 1336323717 580122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the type of an expression being based on the expression, it's based entirely on the context < 1336323724 682175 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it differs fundamentally, the idea is sort of the reverse of the normal one < 1336323730 427758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: When I say < 1336323731 290509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:58 (5 + 5 :: Real) is really (fromInteger (5 :: Integer) + fromInteger (5 :: Integer) :: Real) under the hood. < 1336323736 79665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite a lot of things behave differently in list and scalar context < 1336323736 249231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that the former is what you actually type. < 1336323739 23278 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? I need to look into perl more < 1336323740 452731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also have, e.g. < 1336323744 832440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myTest :: String ==> "abc" < 1336323747 508870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myTest :: Int ==> 42 < 1336323751 669904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where (a :: b) means "a with type b".) < 1336323758 428382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds like what you're looking for. < 1336323762 997192 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go, dinner; bye < 1336323770 8967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is ==> the actual syntax for that? < 1336323778 978906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's metasyntax for evaluation < 1336323786 187320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1336323925 103243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Anyway, the key thing that makes that work is the ability to overload only on return value. < 1336323938 488121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, that's badly-phrased, but whatever. < 1336324763 335913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1336324872 920323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1336325392 119438 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: overloading based on return type, indeed, that was partially why I was was interested in this approach < 1336325432 581742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell uses that quite extensively < 1336325432 764674 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides that, it would also solve the typical C++ string literal problem where std::string a = "A" + "B"; is illegal < 1336325451 980710 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's just C++ :| < 1336325526 696641 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think(and might be totally wrong) that maybe types should be separated from their literals < 1336325566 894862 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell does that for numeric literals, and with an extension for string literals as well. < 1336325584 105554 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :My interest in Haskell is rising < 1336325591 791104 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm scared by people saying that it's horrible < 1336325611 608587 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess there are always people who say that something's horrible < 1336325642 402061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the people saying it's horrible C++ programmers? :P < 1336325643 996381 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Stroustrup < 1336325656 336617 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ :) < 1336325658 990953 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bonus: he's a C++ programmer. Well, the C++ programmer.) < 1336325660 53328 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: true < 1336325668 203938 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :knew that one, it's in The C++ Programming language < 1336325728 126906 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surprisingly, no < 1336325740 560248 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it are Perl programmers < 1336325741 273667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: http://www.learnyouahaskell.com/ is the best Haskell book, FWIW. (Avoid Real World Haskell, it's outdated and goes too fast.) If you don't like LYAH, get a copy of http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book.html; I haven't read it, but have received glowing recommendations for it. < 1336325765 233404 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is RWH outdated where LYAH isn't? < 1336325769 465873 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Honest question) < 1336325779 887322 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what haskell implementation should I use? < 1336325783 507187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: GHC. < 1336325784 571167 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC < 1336325785 313341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc < 1336325797 67550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are either really outdated or not really prime-time-ready. < 1336325797 915332 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For most practical purposes, there is no other Haskell implementation. < 1336325815 994257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UHC is useful for some specialised purposes (compiling to JavaScript), jhc is of interest but not really practical yet. < 1336325822 192558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less everything else is dead. < 1336325825 31548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Parsec, IIRC. < 1336325844 734975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also it recommends ByteString for text, because a certain one of the authors hadn't written Text yet ;) < 1336325852 821901 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bookmarked that :) < 1336325864 432756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both LYAH and RWH have the mtl 1 vs. mtl 2 problem, but that's just changing the capitalisation of one letter to fix, so... < 1336325866 204860 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ByteString still has its uses. < 1336325872 956714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, it was for Unicode (IIRC) text. < 1336325875 793451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over String. < 1336325883 629527 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the love of the $DEITY! Do I have to compile a compiler with this machine? < 1336325889 862108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: You can't, GHC depends on GHC. < 1336325896 461383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux binary is good, and can be installed to any prefix. < 1336325914 920739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use it, GHC takes about 2 hours to compile on a fast machine even if you had an existing binary lying around. < 1336325954 523046 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good. Usually it is source compile when package is not on slitaz's repo < 1336325975 654300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Note: Install 7.0.4, not 7.4.1. < 1336325989 111039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every package builds with 7.4.1 yet and the Platform uses 7.0.4. < 1336325995 271627 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336326009 805336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After you have GHC installed, you'll probably want to install the source package from http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/linux.html.) < 1336326158 972886 :jfischoff!~jfischoff@c-71-202-146-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1336326339 981871 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose lamda knowledge is useful in Haskell? < 1336326370 223352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by lambda :P < 1336326385 242366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell corresponds to an extended version of a certain lambda calculus (not /the/ lambda calculus), but you don't need any background in it to start reading LYAH. < 1336326386 318401 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus, sorry < 1336326394 875246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I knew that, it's just that there's a bunch of them. < 1336326400 546026 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1336326401 249777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sure, Haskell uses anonymous functions, but even C++ has those nowadays.) < 1336326419 562878 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I meant more /the/ lambda calculus < 1336326434 438203 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't really consider closures to be the whole lambda calculus < 1336326440 109716 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be rather restrained < 1336326455 989694 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, short-sighted is a better word I think < 1336326462 890637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's all the lambda calculus is, really; closures plus application. < 1336326469 87972 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other lambda calculi there are than /the/ lambda calculus? < 1336326480 74504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: /The/ lambda calculus usually means the untyped lambda calculus. < 1336326505 449007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's various typed lambda calculi, including the simply typed lambda calculus, members of the lambda cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_cube), etc. < 1336326517 134405 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah. Doesn't haskell implement untyped lambda calculus? < 1336326526 541406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Haskell is typed. < 1336326535 790782 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read about that in the introduction I read < 1336326550 582893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is Hindley-Milner plus typeclasses. < 1336326564 948584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, s/Hindley-Milner/the lambda calculus which Hindley-Milner checks and infers typs for/.) < 1336326565 656524 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1336326627 864146 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And s/Hindley/Damas/g just to be different.) < 1336326803 250202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have you played brogue? Is quaff-iding potions a good idea in brogue? (I picked you because you're the last person to talk and also Finnish.) < 1336326817 505191 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not played brogue. < 1336326824 957304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. What about the second question? < 1336326842 12945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've seen a Let's Play of brogue that says that most items can be use-IDed safely with appropriate precautions < 1336326845 455184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like not doing it in combat, etc < 1336326845 866485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on experience in other roguelikes I'd guess "no". < 1336326860 892667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure if this implies that some can't be < 1336326865 330254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should play brogue, it's really pretty. < 1336326869 829904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the person in the game quaff-IDed a potion of descent < 1336326874 761489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was inconvenient but not really fatal < 1336326892 823048 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "no, unless you're powerful enough that you know you can't easily be instantly killed". < 1336326913 151308 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pretty" isn't a good reason to play a roguelike. < 1336326930 214624 :ion!ion@GYMYCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly what does the potion of descent do? Teleport you to lower levels? < 1336326933 928383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I mean, *really* pretty: http://ompldr.org/vZG1ueg < 1336327010 457796 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1336327014 437360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: takes out the ground beneath anyone who drinks it (or just destroys the ground directly if it breaks on it) < 1336327027 481506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which causes the drinker, or anyone you throw it at, to fall to the level below < 1336327027 960352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: THANKS FOR THE ADVICE http://ompldr.org/vZG45Mg < 1336327032 121112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the fire, too, is really pretty. < 1336327058 852245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you didn't die, did you? < 1336327063 979055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *yet*. < 1336327078 735487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My monkey d id, though. < 1336327084 727244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're only two squares from walking out of the fire < 1336327090 587095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, the fire was *on* me. < 1336327096 67628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to be fair, that was worth it just for "Your monkey catches fire!" < 1336327097 149446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it followed me around. < 1336327102 684677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting < 1336327107 323914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm almost dead, but I'm not on fire any more, and I'm still levitating. < 1336327144 402789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, I'm hovering over a pool of my own blood. < 1336327148 100569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really metal. < 1336327178 689329 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :why o why jQuery, does thou not do as I say?(or I'm just doing it wrong :() < 1336327195 995659 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, seems like rather cool game < 1336327319 55158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: jQuery? that second boss is hard as hell < 1336327383 504501 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :jQuery, the (over-)popular JavaScript library(assuming you're asking about what it is) < 1336327392 647182 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asking what it si < 1336327394 62626 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1336327536 26623 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336328205 468449 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336328205 669822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion you cannot really understand monad and other things from LYAH, and there are other things too like that; I find reading Haskell 2010 report also helps understanding syntax and so on a bit better but even that won't help completely; you have to learn it by yourself < 1336328216 178068 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1336328224 963139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome nikolos < 1336328228 495818 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nikolos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1336328229 753841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ nikolos ? esoteric < 1336328240 176020 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336328244 689852 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nikolos: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. < 1336328251 386140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our bots are so slow :( < 1336328262 772050 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336328270 439719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was that a guess? < 1336328280 702717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's a guess < 1336328282 83079 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1336328288 656443 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1336328303 409333 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess to the point < 1336328316 328510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1336328335 219964 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes bots are slow so try harder < 1336328339 601808 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336328364 642974 :nikolos!bc81eca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.129.236.169 QUIT :Client Quit < 1336328380 47850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1336328529 90638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fortune file too. I have added two of the pasted ones < 1336329090 240847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336329113 548956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a few seconds ago I have corrected Internet Quiz Engine so that a ? block may contain multiple ! conditions without damaging the answer numbers. < 1336329161 664140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It will now pay attention to skipped : instructions when numbering the answers so that when skipping a question that has already been answered, it knows which one it is.) < 1336329264 178577 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1336329773 95250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336330254 702773 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm1.staticflickr.com/31/103658637_bc9b5c88fa_z.jpg lol :D Do some people really think like that? < 1336330262 983345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336330297 592241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1336330310 850807 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling a lot better now < 1336330324 883774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1336330339 235979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336330392 75575 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you hear: i forked crawl. bad idea. now i won't be able to get any work done :'( < 1336330402 525537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i didn't hear when did this happen < 1336330404 281237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336330407 481849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1336330407 524358 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night < 1336330411 583465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget < 1336330412 628502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's it called and what's changed so far < 1336330419 176623 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqys-crawl < 1336330424 877059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way worse than qrawl < 1336330433 943258 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what gitorious called it < 1336330437 985717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just went with the flow < 1336330444 183828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1336330458 6957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, convince ais523 that nethack's id game is boring < 1336330458 24918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent comited anything im just playing around by myself right now :'( < 1336330477 496099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right i created it because i wanted to see what crawl would be like without randomization in combat and then i made all levels 24x24 < 1336330492 958637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1336330494 920675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next up I'm removing healing over time, removing food, removing identification < 1336330498 146718 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1336330503 958587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :squarelos too? < 1336330507 148785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait 24x24 < 1336330508 396954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nolos i guess < 1336330511 823425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it probably needs full spoiling to be interesting, probably item ID techniques should be spoiled < 1336330517 98392 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :24x24 is a bit too big for nolos < 1336330536 266264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why not just make levels the size of the default viewport < 1336330541 764248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's a bit too small < 1336330545 169456 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i did originally but yeah < 1336330552 594136 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :levels ended up having like no features < 1336330555 608374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make levels bigger to compensate but < 1336330556 673919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1336330558 91132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could have mucked with levelgen but ehhh < 1336330561 105334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make there be more levels to compensate < 1336330572 493706 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right also next up i'm removing upstairs < 1336330578 245932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1336330581 47711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like games without upstairs < 1336330597 578608 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scaling ood rate up < 1336330609 19889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why remove upstairs, out of curiosity? < 1336330634 477388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because optimal stashing play in Crawl is really boring < 1336330642 503214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like stairdancing or stashing or anything like that that, which upstairs allow < 1336330645 989549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one reasonable fix for that, I've actually suggested it to Crawl's devteam < 1336330650 440868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm asking for his opinion so I can suggest alternative solutions < 1336330659 554435 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with healing over time removed you can't go upstairs to heal < 1336330660 83722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that don't remove upstairs, because I like upstairs < 1336330677 397475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: with stashing, you could just make some common monsters pick up items they can't use < 1336330682 706667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or destroy them somehow < 1336330690 196293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336330690 313114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1336330691 726899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess levels don't run when you're not on them < 1336330705 697249 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's code to destroy off-level items < 1336330707 651598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jiyva uses it < 1336330712 647144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the other solution to stashing is to have a bag of holding that takes a lot of time to access so you can't do it in combat < 1336330722 172572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: for stairdancing, I have a decent idea for fixing that, but you sound like you've already made up your mind, so < 1336330727 49444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Crawl's devteam is vetoing containers with contents in the name of keeping the game simple (!) < 1336330751 266414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree w/ adding a bag of holding < 1336330752 627632 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard could it be to write a roguelike? < 1336330756 772096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not very < 1336330766 362009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they avoid many of the typical gamedev issues < 1336330772 570125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :balancing a roguelike, OTOH... < 1336330778 937765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (but if you're not then I'll tell you) < 1336330781 918785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard could it be to write a roguelike for someone with minimal video game programming experience? < 1336330787 449404 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1336330801 446171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if a monster is trying to fight you (i.e. not wandering), and you go upstairs, then it'll "follow you" < 1336330803 607730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be simpler for me to leave staircases than remove them, and when i make my very own roguelike i just won't have them < 1336330808 180237 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: this is a guide to writing roguelikes, did you already see it? < 1336330811 717699 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1336330812 93905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read: after N turns (how long it'd take for it to get to the upstairs), it appears on the downstairs < 1336330813 534117 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brogue does that < 1336330818 34504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no I did not < 1336330828 668393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (then do the same for compansions and you can also remove the radius thing) < 1336330840 980495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by radius i mean < 1336330847 519137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that things one away from you teleport up the stairs with you < 1336330878 447714 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your game have PC/NPC unification (if applicable)? Does it have multiple stairs? Macros? Discouragement of wasting time (including fighting a lot of the same kind of creature)? < 1336330881 251583 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/How_to_Write_a_Roguelike_in_15_Steps < 1336330895 837109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: maybe i should look at crawl's code < 1336330914 127151 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hav fun < 1336330926 21368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's not fun i'm looking for it's revenge < 1336330927 31425 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yay < 1336330929 245269 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you like upstairs, out of curiosity? < 1336330935 143727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1336330948 925330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one "realism" i.e. i just don't like the idea of staircases disappearing once you go down them < 1336330958 601506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, for things like entrances to branches < 1336330967 835059 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) no issue, they'll all be escape hatches < 1336330970 335480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they are *not* staircases, but instead are holes in the ground? < 1336330979 816546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's just silly instead < 1336330990 170651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: three, I think it's OK to go back for loot that you skipped (as distinct from stashing) < 1336331005 569073 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the loot, pick it up!!! < 1336331016 829130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's heavy and I can't use it yet! < 1336331044 311714 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick it up anyway < 1336331045 805877 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then that is your fault for stealing things that you cannot carry. Perhaps find a similar thing later on < 1336331047 691671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1336331050 913462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about #2 < 1336331064 698978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, are you going to remove food entirely, or just hunger? the latter seems better because ghouls and the like) < 1336331069 299314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or are you removing ghouls too) < 1336331076 275516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336331100 55428 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing food entirely, modifying mummys and ghouls and vampres to make them mean something again < 1336331175 710798 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :D my bookmarkfile is larger than my text editor binary < 1336331213 949535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the answers to my questions? < 1336331220 249413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about #2 ;_; < 1336331264 236293 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox's places.sqlite (which stores bookmarks and history, I believe) is about 25 times the size of my text editor binary < 1336331265 123447 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there will be a solution" < 1336331282 308403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: to branches??? < 1336331286 356297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK this is fucking enough. < 1336331286 416437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had it up to here with this motherfucking GNOME on this motherfucking laptop. < 1336331295 336056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway uugh i really don't like removing upstairs but "your game" < 1336331307 33492 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling between branches is ugh anyway < 1336331314 660669 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interlevel travel is < 1336331315 900178 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally ugh < 1336331327 609460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: conversely, why do you want to remove stairs with the tweaks I suggested? < 1336331332 383008 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am using a flat file < 1336331341 909679 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+text < 1336331370 130225 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like your antistashing tweak < 1336331375 832915 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have used this file for about a month < 1336331383 126176 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was using Kde 3.5/Trinity.. when I got my new laptop, I tried a ton of DEs.. finally came back to Trinity, it's my favorite < 1336331391 2838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ais523's is probably better < 1336331429 996805 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: has there bern much change from kde 3.5? < 1336331442 10034 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: not really < 1336331455 760745 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bag of holding? < 1336331459 507572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336331467 481704 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: it's definitely stuck in the past.. but that's me, I guess < 1336331475 822947 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: how much memory does it use < 1336331498 510687 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure how to determine that < 1336331504 392548 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I used to use twm < 1336331518 398221 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ so age is not anissue < 1336331530 132879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really fold of those either but maybe there are solutions?? < 1336331535 798912 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: use top command < 1336331552 453613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how about limiting the amount of weight a tile can support? < 1336331569 850086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you try and put too much on one tile, it just turns into a shaft or whatever < 1336331572 331876 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that prevent stashing < 1336331572 686081 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: right, but there are diffrent numbers, and I was never sure which one was real < 1336331577 141918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it'd make it really tedious < 1336331580 937841 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"great" < 1336331583 478437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just what i wanted" < 1336331587 181793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336331590 60564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that discourages it, doesn't it? < 1336331607 612589 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :making something more tedious doesn't stop it from being optimal < 1336331622 673042 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to remove the "optimal but tedious" aspect < 1336331630 768836 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I'll add up a few of there and see what I get < 1336331632 367945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody plays optimally; if you make the optimal stuff annoying enough, people won't bother < 1336331653 444763 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like that philosophy < 1336331655 216538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at < 1336331656 636231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all < 1336331660 568832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1336331663 794665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like removing upstairs less < 1336331705 190708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how about just making dropping an item destroy it :) < 1336331713 168241 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1336331720 631229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than removing upstairs!! < 1336331726 98931 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1336331733 368402 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd leave items on previous levels and come back to them < 1336331739 925452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1336331741 559749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not < 1336331742 123466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1336331743 547326 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not you < 1336331743 868729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1336331744 753522 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I'm assuming you'll want to run the standard stuff like package update notifications < 1336331745 634901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1336331745 653072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people < 1336331746 363612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1336331751 308635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: items would get destroyed when you go > < 1336331761 632440 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes < 1336331775 274339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and you prefer that over removing upstairs? < 1336331779 426198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1336331791 670766 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: actually n9 < 1336331795 572838 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1336331848 268755 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my roguelike will go up rather than down < 1336331860 706412 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: my computer is IBM ThinkPad T20 with 700MHz Pentium III and 64MB of RAM < 1336331862 655869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway idkkkk you should at least leave removing upstairs for last so i can come up with adequate solutions to your objections in the meantime :p < 1336331890 130667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336331908 257651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336331912 589456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should termcast what you have so far sometime or something < 1336331921 651706 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: it looks like around 150mb < 1336331954 359353 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ugh. I'll just stick with openbox then < 1336331960 419390 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: laptops are cheap, why not upgrade? < 1336331996 712516 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I try to use my computers as long as I can < 1336331997 717617 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be called "Business Barbarian" < 1336332019 439913 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: 64mb ram is pretty limiting tho, even besides the gui < 1336332057 913868 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which browser do you use? < 1336332075 796639 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: links2, hv3 and netsurf < 1336332084 102692 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a machine around that speed and iceweasel was not too fun < 1336332090 792965 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hehe < 1336332101 976213 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :helliott < 1336332187 704597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what are you going to do about vaults < 1336332217 128152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of them work but most of them get vetoed < 1336332233 431281 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: my main browser is links2 in graphical mode and most of the programs I use are already terminal aplications. If I could only get framebuffer to work with my computer I would not autostart X < 1336332234 490669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1336332237 612606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annoying/bad ones < 1336332237 790453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty fine with this for monqys-crawl. it's not an entirely serious project < 1336332240 666783 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336332245 445992 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1336332249 174171 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving that for last i guess < 1336332260 551533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you getting rid of imps :( < 1336332299 69982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that :( means "i hope so") < 1336332302 611219 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: links2, netsurf and mplayer can be run on framebuffer < 1336332305 276951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most monsters aren't very annoying right now < 1336332317 360447 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :honqy < 1336332333 752994 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably have to make some adjustments because everything dies really really quickly like in one hit < 1336332345 784836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha what did you do < 1336332359 274481 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :halamari < 1336332359 806952 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :made most if not all things do max damage < 1336332375 759550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they should do average damage instead < 1336332379 301652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1336332382 855320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure removing randomness in combat is A Gr8 Idea) < 1336332470 675196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but) < 1336332472 269357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("yr game") < 1336332488 664447 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said its < 1336332495 266466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really a serious project < 1336332510 123829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is crawl < 1336332524 575217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that a joke < 1336332532 546541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1336332538 682507 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1336332544 298100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it have been < 1336332555 679928 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I haven't used netsurf, but yeah I've done that with links2 and mplayer < 1336332576 66086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you should remove the non-xom gods (im giving good advice) < 1336332591 267452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no keep chei too < 1336332648 157333 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: netsurf is a browser originaly for risc os that is a bitch to get to compild because of its dependecies < 1336332803 611263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are you going to tweak starting stats/inv, btw, if you're increasing ood spawns? < 1336332893 910288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by ood increase i might actually mean not generating monsters before your current depth because they're just not worth having < 1336332902 604821 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by not generating them i might mean replacing them with oods < 1336332908 306888 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, myself! < 1336332915 404871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know myself either < 1336332947 551269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why is crawl like 400k lines of code :( < 1336332952 685158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok by 400k i mean 373k < 1336332956 654982 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bad < 1336332962 507830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's like < 1336332963 920513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of source code < 1336332996 527457 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not particularly pleasant either < 1336333005 743328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know where the monster definitions are < 1336333072 173615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also make some things to be options which can be selected before the game starts < 1336333168 631898 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235173244.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1336333210 68132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the Crawl people understand OOP < 1336333237 301822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it better than Nethack?? < 1336333255 302297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code-wise? < 1336333256 904425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1336333276 38328 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1336333299 671571 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1336333332 228100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thank god i was only reminded who he was right after he left < 1336333365 600164 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1336333445 549872 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: who he is? < 1336333467 557866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idiot < 1336333481 354449 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1336333484 71820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He came in going on about how general relativity is clearly bullshit. < 1336333495 83814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When challenged on this, he claimed to be an expert on it. < 1336333496 640924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't quite how it went < 1336333500 94172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was terrible though) < 1336333513 466961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well roughly that, he was criticising it based on claimed expertise. < 1336333519 429670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I asked him what a tensor was. < 1336333521 181651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-12-20#133853AnotherTest onwards < 1336333521 262606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got ugly. < 1336333526 549619 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what!? challeged general relativity? < 1336333532 932880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends at 14:24 < 1336333540 419355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read ~if you dare!!!~ < 1336333543 482466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we convicted him under uk anti-free speech legislation < 1336333568 774646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1336333569 836674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the < 1336333573 32441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:36:50: "Time is a part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change such as the motions of objects.[1] The temporal position of events with respect to the transitory present is continually changing; events happen, then are located further and further in the past. Time has been a major subject of religion, philosophy, and < 1336333573 206017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : science, but defining it in a n < 1336333573 224846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:36:51: on-controversial manner applicable to all fields of study has consistently eluded the greatest scholars. A simple definition states that "time is what clocks measure"." < 1336333574 798529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:36:56: -- Wikipedia, attempting to define "time". < 1336333576 751465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:37:10: Did you know that events happen, and then are located further and further in the past? < 1336333578 793798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :context for that < 1336333719 670344 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Quit: testaan startup-skripti' < 1336333721 628513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, now I'm reading that log again. < 1336333721 985310 :TeruFSX2!~TeruFSX@174-20-32-248.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336333730 504105 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1336333755 593585 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct way to define time is according to its effects on physics. < 1336333776 326894 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: fwiw I run openbox on that laptop :) < 1336333800 957178 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw? < 1336333814 166457 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what it's worth < 1336333847 298602 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried openbox/lxde on my new one but it jus tcouldn't handle multiple unmatched screens properly < 1336333909 832200 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-32-248.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1336333968 495550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the ending makes it all worthwhile. < 1336334009 303474 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: have you ever used wwm? it is quite nice window manager < 1336334036 873148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:17:16: < means something, in fact < 1336334036 929254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:17:22: < implies =/=. < 1336334036 929321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:17:25: No < 1336334054 238395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1336334089 443233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is the correct way to define time, or do you have other opinion? < 1336334091 651431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:21:27: I'm even doubting whether you understand what a momentum is, Phatum < 1336334094 839032 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: nope < 1336334095 902933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're Phatum_Hoover now. < 1336334102 729876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phatum_Hooveer < 1336334104 647689 :Phatum_Hooveer!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phatum_Hoover < 1336334173 274402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hovver < 1336334205 527674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phætom howeyr < 1336334575 720349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1336334590 503380 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1336334613 268082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1336334614 509279 :orionx!~stas@bzq-79-177-195-125.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336334626 639453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome orionx < 1336334629 239173 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :orionx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1336334630 54952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ orionx ? esoteric < 1336334633 174431 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :orionx: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. < 1336334680 991266 :orionx!~stas@bzq-79-177-195-125.red.bezeqint.net PART :#esoteric < 1336334688 182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1336334725 947388 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should put the programming note directly in the welcome message < 1336334755 225824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1336334758 765336 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1336334838 821496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems difficult (or maybe completely impossible) making the category for a partial ordering in Haskell. (As far as I can tell, the laws of a partial ordering are the same as the laws of a thin category.) < 1336335370 372238 :MoALTz__!~no@92.8.228.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336335500 353655 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ why is texlive so huge < 1336335504 821125 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-122-250.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1336335505 350868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is a great sprint game im watching < 1336335506 232942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just < 1336335508 924214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mephitic clouding everything < 1336335556 789375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scummos? I'm assuming it's not n7 < 1336335561 611340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1336335564 798262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phatum_Hoover: Probably it includes all of LaTeX which is very large, as well as fonts and drivers and so on; I do not know if it is possible to tell it to omit LaTeX. Also, do you have PCL printer? < 1336335581 383204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they're not mephitic clouding the elephant slug < 1336335582 860245 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not have a PCL printer, you won't need the programs "dvipcl", "dvilj", and their variants, either. < 1336335587 607562 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, allow me to amend my original comment. < 1336335596 263212 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ why is texlive so huge zzo need not reply < 1336335627 821123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you are asking Jesus Christ. Well, he isn't here right now. < 1336335664 913042 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will he be back < 1336335664 931615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprint seems to involve a lot of running away < 1336335675 609732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe this guy is just bad at it < 1336335679 365362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336335694 957165 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's kiting the elephant slug, but maybe that's his only option < 1336335698 492977 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's only the first sprint < 1336335699 730674 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like < 1336335700 625893 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zig sprint < 1336335702 569515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no running < 1336335732 74613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you meant to kill sonja last < 1336335733 310751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if < 1336335735 807899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level's named after her < 1336335744 34941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1336335747 53343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jUST SAYING!!! < 1336335750 59816 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode Sonja? < 1336335756 795524 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mean < 1336335765 31386 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1336335779 554443 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you meant the freenode Sonja, I guess not < 1336335783 310431 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frequents many channels < 1336335791 961011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a reasonable thing to believe < 1336335807 91758 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phatum_Hoover: Perhaps you can remove the files that you don't want, after install? When I installed MiKTeX, it included many files I did not want but there is an option to remove them so that is what I did. < 1336335897 580100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprints look hard < 1336335923 756919 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprint difficulty depends greatly on which sprint, combo, and if you know how to do it < 1336335936 152423 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by its fixed nature, it's much more spoily than normal crawl < 1336335985 198356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling it isn't very suited to pure melee characters < 1336335988 36306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least unless you have a ton of hp < 1336335996 754168 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's perfectly fine on them < 1336335999 196690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1336336000 964630 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sprints are < 1336336295 652510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow sprints are popular today < 1336337071 348447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway i guess removing upstairs isn't such a bad idea except for the messing up branches thing < 1336337076 346425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also how are you going to do the orb run) < 1336337098 885522 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecided < 1336337104 719667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mcrawl approach is just not have orb run < 1336337114 283329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just win once you pick up the orb or w/e? < 1336337116 782136 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1336337121 645758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could do the rogue thing < 1336337122 721843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :top priority momentarily is make it segfault less < 1336337130 691594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :change downstairs into upstairs once you get the orb < 1336337141 523021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess < 1336337145 270497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have an upstairs next to the orb < 1336337150 31198 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orb run is pretty dull but maybe in monqys-crawl it would be more interesting < 1336337180 806179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im working on the assumption that anything dull would be made more interesting < 1336337193 775389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ps it would be less dull with the things-follow-you-upstairs change!!!) < 1336337199 281081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) < 1336337208 351583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things-follow-you-downstairs < 1336337223 584302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that should be added even if upstairs are removed < 1336337238 493071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you can just skip any level with anything dangerous on it and since you can't go upstairs anyway you don't really lose much < 1336337318 638526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336337323 425468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps remove goliath beetles, nerf worms < 1336337332 103576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1336337337 247694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1336337337 772714 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My roguelike is going well < 1336337339 406152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :worms were nerft by the max damage dealie < 1336337350 721027 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things were, really. except for the things that were megabuft < 1336337358 874696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"needs rebalancing" < 1336337359 243544 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336337363 483148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah but that seems to have nerfed everything to a terrible degree so < 1336337365 819844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that can come after making it not segfault" < 1336337368 834708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my balancing suggestions are assuming you fix that < 1336337386 525194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with removing randomness from combat is that < 1336337398 570269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically predetermine whether you'll live or die before doing anything < 1336337405 127043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which removes all possibility of taking a risk or whatever < 1336337416 481743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of A Shame < 1336337467 132551 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change of plan, bye < 1336337468 230237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-105.as13285.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1336337512 411094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we'll just have to wait for monqy's actual roguelike" < 1336337550 428279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you realise it's impossible to make a crawl variant AND another game < 1336337553 451362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they TELL you < 1336337601 366746 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody told me :( < 1336337625 891424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm still suggest even if it's totally non-serious < 1336337632 88119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*im *its < 1336338117 789262 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2009/07/21/on-optimization/ < 1336338304 244044 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc26-belf9-2-0-cust5.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1336338607 183415 :Phatum_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc26-belf9-2-0-cust5.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1336338969 741411 :MoALTz__!~no@92.8.228.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1336339877 125037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of how to make WizardCard to know which headings are more specific than others < 1336339937 183332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336339939 829376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the heading macro/xyz(0) is more specific than macro/xyz(#1) < 1336339973 693689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what annoys me? < 1336339974 838468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the first heading only matches exactly xyz(0) but the second one matches xyz with anything else too < 1336339996 308981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard it is to configure wifi connections on Linux. < 1336340013 27142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *still* have no idea whatsoever how to do it except with the GNOME applet. < 1336340028 872108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you read the man page? < 1336340038 874470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the man page on wifi. < 1336340043 989427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps connecting to wifi. < 1336340062 200255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find documentation without having the slightest idea which tool I'm even looking at. < 1336340064 519945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for < 1336340069 674637 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that man page will be called; you can try man -k to search < 1336340420 600188 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or apropos < 1336340432 275300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you help me with the algorithm of most specific headings? It is not only as simple as the examples I have given; there are other possibilities too. < 1336340533 869083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how about defining a union-of-two-headings function? < 1336340557 612407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then x `isMoreSpecificThan` y = x == mappend x y < 1336340561 196576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it forms a monoid) < 1336340584 708326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, but can you give an example of what you mean? < 1336340601 817310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I'm not sure what you mean, that *was* the example :) < 1336340614 432386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mappend x y would be a heading that matches whenever x or y matches < 1336340622 47945 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Gregor what is wrong with bsd userland < 1336340622 178635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1336340622 360348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1336340648 231033 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks that looks like it will work < 1336340658 211270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1336340664 915404 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't you need the specificity order to form a lattice then < 1336340678 900420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yep, I was making assumptions about zzo38's situation < 1336340691 309684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it form a lattice < 1336340712 512942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Can you explain what a lattice is, then? < 1336340809 171166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The headings are of type [Token] and, other than the exact match tokens, the other ones are T_Para (matches anything), and T_List and T_Call (both of which can contain other tokens) < 1336340844 344055 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :latice, basically: partial order with operations to take the greatest upper lower and least upper bound of any two elements < 1336340846 510257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that sometimes two headings cannot be combined in this way < 1336340872 694414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could just get away with a semilattice though < 1336340887 409434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: What is a "greatest upper lower"? < 1336340889 879812 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :semilattices only need one of those operations < 1336340891 129286 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1336340897 237294 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant greatest lower bound < 1336340901 133432 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not greatest upper lower < 1336340903 274717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"woops" < 1336340907 708690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that is what I thought you might have meant < 1336340909 849020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok greatest upper lower was greatest < 1336340913 246760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also upper and lower) < 1336340980 357061 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one of them is called "meet" and the other is "join" and I can never remember which is which, but mappend in elliott's example is one of them, depending on which way you order your stuff < 1336341049 33404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, there's http://hackage.haskell.org/package/lattices < 1336341062 288052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1336341081 693678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably better than Monoid for you since it ensures commutativity and so on < 1336341127 907243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "join" is already used in Haskell for the monadic operation. But are "meet" and "join" dual like in a dual category (treating the partial ordering as a category)? < 1336341149 413581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can import the module qualified (as L, say) < 1336341210 315574 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, still, some headings may not be able to combine in this way < 1336341237 4450 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastefortunes < 1336341242 542212 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20890 < 1336341279 688470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you meant something that may match *more* than only the two original headings. < 1336341415 441372 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you can clarify? < 1336341477 635214 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 14 < 1336341499 242180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can you elaborate on that? < 1336341503 903014 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1336341509 37774 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the / on an irssi command < 1336341518 67138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1336341527 274573 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 14 < 1336341529 223869 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1336341530 450779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I think I actually have Henry back to being tolerable!! < 1336341531 916405 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up < 1336341603 530203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336341610 800606 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do you know somethings about answering my question though? Maybe not? < 1336341650 898257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For example, the headings macro/x(0) and macro/x(1) are both matched by macro/x(#1) but then it matches many other things too < 1336341853 710110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I have a fortunes file too. Do you have? < 1336341879 395231 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes but it is very small < 1336341938 462319 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, if the part before the slash differs, the headings won't combine at all, but that is not relevant since the ordering of specificness is not important if the headings are of a different kind) < 1336341981 671359 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-201.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1336341998 341430 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-112.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1336342024 721078 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :c2bf project status: c2bf-cpp now supports #define, c2bf-libc has now been split to multiple files (stdio.c,string.c) < 1336342045 627976 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c2bf-libc.c < 1336342119 773121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336342254 66598 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo: implement strings < 1336342367 939232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 QUIT :Quit: TODO: QUIT < 1336342424 607676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1336342460 769249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:54:39: Unless you meant something that may match *more* than only the two original headings. < 1336342465 630794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, no < 1336342535 973879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: does it still segfault :'( < 1336342554 427180 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havne't worked on it since last night < 1336342558 354696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"home work" < 1336342568 492994 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hha ha schoole" < 1336342576 68464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :home work: make crawl variant < 1336342581 820875 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish < 1336342692 212978 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aural myiasis (the technical term for "being earfucked by worms") < 1336342724 913867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kool < 1336343805 944431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qool < 1336343896 771397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zool < 1336343900 531307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xool < 1336344049 879669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yool :'( < 1336344071 162534 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wool < 1336344072 932094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fool < 1336344074 743354 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pool < 1336344078 471718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aool < 1336344099 167358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rool < 1336344131 111344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vool >:( < 1336344161 754009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tool < 1336344352 242542 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :λool < 1336344375 112320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :‰l < 1336344378 58657 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :þool < 1336344378 232229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1336344386 35246 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1336344386 171024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti asked 1h 2m 44s ago: what is wrong with bsd userland < 1336344391 288116 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1336344394 131865 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I was TROLLING < 1336344404 7830 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ok < 1336344631 183671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1336345766 487105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1336346890 778486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: alsobtw, are you removing identification entirely or just making things identify on pickup? < 1336347039 603350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :plans to remove id entirely < 1336347055 421928 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :picking things up to identify them then dropping them when they aren't good found "lots of fun" < 1336347127 61145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah it's kind of boring; it's interesting in some respects but maybe not enough to keep it < 1336347134 591297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the context of Crawl at least < 1336347189 505157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking My Roguelike(tm) might have some minor forms of identification but they'd be very limited and race-based < 1336347215 700799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a stupid race wouldn't be able to identify scrolls before using them (because they can't read) until they upped int < 1336347228 316028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the solution would be: don't use scrolls < 1336347229 917587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only form of identification i've considered for my roguelike so far is that spell-identification thing i talked about < 1336347254 706889 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1336347262 91209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "spell" "identification" < 1336347290 227415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i shouldn't speak of anything resembling an identification game in anything even resembling a positive light while i'm trying to convince ais523 that nethack's id game is really awful < 1336347303 273561 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1336347313 138570 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nortti < 1336347470 764903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (which it is) < 1336347477 885027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im just saying) < 1336348310 978792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1336348320 636169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my monkey is apparently not smart enough to not kill pit bloats < 1336348439 91110 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric