00:04:12 Anyone here know more about low-level x86 legacy junk than I do? 00:05:25 http://sprunge.us/FTdG If so, tell me why this isn't working. 00:07:39 It seems you're writing a bootloader. Did you know there are many bootloaders that work perfectly fine, and enable you to skip the boring parts of building stuff that runs without an OS? 00:07:48 maybe the disk addressing is wrong 00:08:02 do heads and cylinders start at 0 or 1, for instance? 00:08:11 olsner: All but sectors are 0-indexed. 00:08:54 Lumpio-: This is like saying "It seems you're writing a kernel. Did you know there are many kernels that work perfectly fine?" 00:09:07 Writing a kernel is fun. 00:10:02 Replacing the x86 bootup sequence with "you get 32k loaded at 0x10000" is aesthetically pleasing. 00:11:00 As is knowing all the code running since the BIOS lost control. 00:11:29 pikhq: So, BIOS OK, bootloader not :) 00:11:41 Gregor: BIOS is unavoidable. 00:12:09 ...not if you can fit a disk driver into 510 bytes! 00:12:28 You could write your own BIOS code! 00:12:39 Lumpio-: The BIOS is still going to run before your bootloader. 00:12:59 Gregor: I suppose in theory I *could*, but that is machine-specific hell. 00:13:21 About the only thing you know for certain *there* is that the instruction pointer is at 0x0800:0. 00:13:51 Ok, flash your own bios! 00:14:41 I've only read about BIOS development once, and I heard it's not very easy. 00:15:07 Hardware manufacturers are lowest-cost bastards. 00:15:26 I never knew how much the BIOS actually does 00:15:42 Apparently some people hacked a C compiler to generate code that runs in the CPU cache 00:15:52 It's just some remedial hardware initialisation and a lot of legacy junk. 00:15:52 ...because the BIOS has to initialize the main memory controller before the memory can be used 00:16:11 Yeah, that's called "overengineering". 00:21:46 So anyways is your thing crashing at the disk read or 00:24:57 seems to work in bochs, whatever that means 00:34:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:35:22 "You might as well ask why they don't have touchdowns in baseball, or why they don't have a "royal flush" in tennis." Are you going to make a baseball with touchdown and a tennis with royal flush? 01:14:32 Lumpio-: No, it's just not jumping into my code right. 01:14:35 olsner: Hmm. 01:14:38 Maybe it's a qemu bug? 01:17:24 'Cept, unless qemu is horrifically broken, this should work... 01:17:38 Can't be a BIOS bug if it works in bochs, seeing as qemu uses the same BIOS. 01:20:39 How 'bout VBox? :) 01:21:40 Freenode should allow Unicode nicks ... 01:21:47 VBox has a retarded interface, making it nontrivial to just go "run this disk image kthx" 01:24:09 As does bochs, for that matter. 01:25:02 "You can also start bochs with the -q option to skip these menus." 01:25:05 Niiice, bochs. 01:25:13 I passed -q to you! 01:26:35 pikhq: What debugger are you using 01:27:22 None, because there god-damned isn't a sane asm debugger. 01:27:58 And bochs appears to be horrifically broken on my system. 01:28:02 bochs-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/bochs/plugins/libbx_x.so: undefined symbol: XpmCreatePixmapFromData 01:28:58 Gregor: No, I think it should be ASCII according to RFC 01:31:28 pikhq: How did you determine it's not jumping into your code right 01:32:18 Lumpio-: I don't see the single side effect my code has, writing 'A' to the screen. 01:33:15 http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/04/22/university-of-florida-eliminates-computer-science-department-increases-athletic-budgets-hmm/ 01:33:16 How does it write it to the screen? Did you try writing something before the jump out of the bootloader? 01:33:22 ...could you paste the code it loads? 01:34:22 http://sprunge.us/ITAD 01:37:54 ugh, mixed hex syntax 01:38:08 I also would like to have a custom BIOS in PC; one which uses the PC BIOS functions (both the old and new ones) but has Forth interpreter built-in, which can be used to configure the BIOS and to allow the computer to function even without an operating system. In addition, it should implement: terminal by serial port, telnet, TFTP, and download an operating system to RAM to run, to install from internet in that way. 01:39:55 Lumpio-: Have you figured out the Pokemon Card puzzle better now? (First and/or second file) 01:40:08 zzo38: I haven't really looked at it 01:40:49 pikhq: I'd probably try writing directly into the display memory instead of using BIOS calls 01:40:54 ...just in case something messed it up 01:41:54 Lumpio-: If you want the hint then I can provide some if asked; the (incorrect) solution you gave is what everyone (other than coppro) has said, too. 01:42:20 And, yes, you can write directly into the display memory which is usually how I do it too 01:43:05 (Also takes less code) 01:43:23 Lumpio-: Ugh, writing to specific addresses in real mode. :P 01:43:36 enjoy :P 01:43:52 This is what 32 bits and protected mode is for ~ 01:44:14 There is also unreal mode 01:44:40 And 64 bit mode! 01:50:00 Anyways, did it and it doesn't work. 01:50:05 Though it works before the jump. 01:51:08 How are you making your disk image, got a makefile? 01:51:19 http://sprunge.us/IhFW 01:52:24 I have partially written an operating system for PC, but I have currently abandoned work on it (and might never continue); but you can look at it if you want to. 01:53:16 According to qemu's memory inspection, there's nothing but null at 0x10000. 01:53:35 Which seems quite strange. 01:54:32 I made memory management and multiprocessing but then I got bored. 01:56:23 I genuinely got nothing here. 02:00:19 I wonder where the stack starts if you don't set sp 02:01:17 Lumpio-: sp is set by the BIOS to 256 bytes above the end of your bootloader. 02:01:35 ooh 02:01:40 How nice of it 02:02:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:04:39 I also wrote a short MBR code which you can use if you want to. 02:06:15 aww, I found one of my own too 02:06:50 Writing a kernel is fin 02:08:24 ...it seems to do the exact same thing 02:09:30 Lumpio-: What differences even exist? 02:11:02 Well mine is dumb and assumes disk0 02:11:33 ...and it doesn't bother with byte movs and just sets full registers but 02:13:42 Oh and there's no jmp at the start 02:15:21 Oh, now I see what it is. 02:15:39 Fun fact: qemu borks on just catting stuff together. 02:15:48 Making a 1.44M image makes it work. 02:16:09 mm 02:16:34 Maybe it doesn't like if you read past the image (even if it's emulating a floppy) 02:16:43 Probably. 02:17:06 I'd at least print a warning... 02:20:29 Why do you just assume disk0? 02:21:22 zzo38: I don't. :) 02:41:53 Another programming language I wanted to invent, other than Ibtlfmm, is one which combines C, LLVM, and BLISS. Do you have any suggestion for name? Probably I could implement it more easily, and possibly in Haskell; but it will compile into LLVM 03:02:56 Now to figure out why the heck I can't get into protected mode. 03:03:06 Dear qemu: infinite reboot loop? Not helpful. 03:12:00 pikhq: I have had that problem too; the problem is that the example code to enter protected mode has a mistake in it. 03:12:46 zzo38: Oh? 03:13:38 why do seagulls keep attacking me :( 03:13:53 and other birds 03:15:26 i mean yeah i do want to tear their wing out and grind them into featherpudding, but that's only due to the previous attacks. 03:15:32 *wings 03:19:13 (which is pretty much every time i see seagulls, and once some bigger bird decided i was oh so totally delicious) 03:19:25 http://sprunge.us/dNQU Further ideas? 03:22:47 oklopol: It's because you bathe in fish carcasses every morning. 03:23:43 oklopol: those gulls are ones i fed some bread to at a picnic years ago... 03:24:27 i 03:24:33 a�slkdfj 03:24:36 :| .. life has grown considerably more depressing since those years 03:24:55 yeah isn't it great how our lives evolve :) 03:25:09 i'm gonna go back to work, let's see if i make it there alive. 03:25:30 lol. my moneys on you staying alive. 03:25:51 well right, i'll probably just lose my sight. 03:25:59 bye 03:27:47 Too many cards spoils your chances of winning. 03:28:26 * itidus20 sends a raichu to assist oklopol. 03:32:40 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 03:46:02 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:49:56 To assist oklopol doing what? 03:54:37 zzo38: In what way was the example code mistaken? 03:55:13 pikhq: I seem to remember, it was that it set an extra bit of the keyboard controller to tell the computer to reboot 03:55:43 *blink* srsly? 03:56:05 Yes that is what was wrong. 03:57:41 Heeeey, still doesn't work. 03:57:57 Perhaps look at my code 03:58:31 Link? 03:58:53 http://sprunge.us/DefZ 04:01:15 Does it help? 04:04:47 Not quite. Doesn't seem to be working still. 04:06:07 http://sprunge.us/CLGI The incantations, they work not. 04:08:01 I don't know 04:15:58 pikhq: Does it have two ways of hexadecimal numbers? 04:17:52 zzo38: Whaddya mean? 04:18:14 deadbeefh and 0xDEADBEEF are both hex numbers in nasm, if that's what you mean. 04:18:27 Yes that is what I meant 04:20:34 Only thing I can figure is that my global descriptor table table is wrong somehow. 04:21:15 pikhq: Maybe it is; does the emulator tell you anything about the reboot purpose? In Bochs, it did say the reboot was due to the keyboard controller command. 04:21:30 qemu doesn't tell me that at all. 04:21:39 And bochs isn't working on my distro ATM. 04:22:11 Then I don't know. I don't know much about global descriptor table. 04:23:17 Well, who does? It's arcane magic. 04:24:25 With the hexidecimal numbers, the thing I can see is that since you can use names too, it might confuse things if you have a name called "bach" or something like that. (In my program, all numbers are hexadecimal, and all names must be prefixed by $ so there will never cause such confusion) 04:25:21 pikhq: Arcane magic like in Dungeons&Dragons 3.5 eidition, like in 4th edition, or like in Icosahedral? 04:27:30 bochs-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/bochs/plugins/libbx_x.so: undefined symbol: XpmCreatePixmapFromData 04:27:34 Fuck you, bochs. Fuck. You. 04:29:52 pikhq: Shouldn't the limit part of gdtr: be "gdtend-gdt" rather than "gdt-gdtend"? 04:30:00 fizzie: ... Probably. 04:30:44 And also dw for the limit and dd for the base, I'd think. 04:31:08 Oddly enough, no. 04:31:49 The base is supposed to be a 32-bit physical address for the GDT... 04:32:23 Yes, so why would it be "dw"? 04:32:46 ... Derp. 04:37:18 Not that that helps at all. 04:38:40 Okay, finally got bochs working. 04:39:33 Message: write_virtual_checks(): write beyond limit, r/w 04:40:09 ... 04:40:21 Oh, duh. Let's set up my data segments. XD 04:42:09 Message: interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0xff53) 04:42:11 YAY 04:54:55 -!- fizzie` has joined. 04:57:42 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:42 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:42 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:42 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:44 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:44 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:45 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 04:57:49 Suddenly... 04:58:04 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 05:00:24 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:01:47 Do you like the nasm syntax or my syntax? There are other kind of assembly syntax too, in case you like that one instead, too. 05:05:34 -!- variable has joined. 05:07:32 I think I prefer nasm syntax, but yours isn't too bad. 05:07:50 What's *bad* is AT&T-style syntax, as per gas. 05:12:40 -!- atehwa has joined. 05:12:40 -!- aloril has joined. 05:12:40 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:14:22 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:14:23 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:14:23 -!- qfr has joined. 05:15:24 OK 05:48:32 -!- ellisonch has joined. 05:54:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:54:26 I don't like Haskell's deleteBy and deleteFirstsBy; I would prefer :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] 05:55:24 And intersectBy should be :: (a -> b -> Bool) -> [a] -> [b] -> [b] 05:58:37 Or perhaps like this :: (Foldable t, MonadPlus m) => (a -> b -> Bool) -> t a -> m b -> m b 06:02:16 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 06:24:30 -!- flipout_1 has joined. 06:24:34 -!- flipout_1 has left. 06:38:17 -!- cheater has joined. 06:46:42 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:49:28 -!- mylvari has joined. 06:49:51 -!- cheater has joined. 07:01:02 Why am I reading a comic about Go rather than sleeping? 07:01:50 Because sleep is for mortals. 07:01:59 maybe you're afraid that if you go to sleep you will never wake up 07:02:31 Sgeo: hikaru no go? 07:03:01 i have heard of it.. that is 07:03:30 http://www.tigersmouth.org/viewpage.php?page_id=37 07:03:48 Hmm, it appears to be for kids 07:04:02 Judging from the "Play Go now" thing saying that there are other kids in the KGS room for the comic 07:05:53 what did you expect 07:13:04 I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition 07:13:33 me neither 07:14:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:22:07 no one expects.... etc 07:23:51 * pikhq demands the Spanish Inquisition 07:26:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:34:46 I thought of something like this: mconcat . primeFactors = id; map primeFactors . primeFactors = map return . primeFactors; primeFactors mempty = []; It is something which can be done on a category too, where you have a functor from that category to the free category of the quiver of that category. 07:49:12 I think it is also a faithful functor 07:51:07 Do you know these things? 08:19:19 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:20:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:47:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Just in case you don't know.). 09:45:35 -!- NSQX has joined. 09:47:54 -!- NSQX_ has joined. 09:50:01 -!- NSQX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:52:06 -!- NSQX_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:05:35 -!- nortti has joined. 10:06:31 -!- NSQX has joined. 10:06:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:09:00 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:10:51 -!- NSQX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:22:16 -!- cheater has joined. 10:36:06 -!- derdon has joined. 10:52:11 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:10:57 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:12:06 -!- cheater has joined. 11:12:47 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 12:14:29 -!- MDude has joined. 12:34:01 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 13:10:08 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:17:55 -!- NSQX has joined. 13:18:57 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-04-22#193102zzo38 13:23:04 Well, since void just means "no type", I used it as the only type in --C-=C-C-- because --C-=C-C-- literally had "no different types" but C/C++ does not allow assignment of a variable without decleration and I did not want to remove that restriction from --C-=C-C-- 13:41:38 Sooo you conflated ⊤ and ⊥. 13:43:45 -!- NSQX has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:44:59 And here I was going to say something about how the dyn type conflates ⊤ and ⊥ anyway. 13:53:21 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:55:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:04 COLON EQUALS (U+2254) ≔ 14:06:09 Why does this unicode character exist. 14:06:14 It admits in its name that it's two characters. 14:21:04 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:22:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:22:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:22:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:23:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:24:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:24:51 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:38:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:43:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 14:45:31 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:04:08 -!- ellisonch has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:14:05 -!- elliottasdf has joined. 15:14:06 -!- elliottasdf has changed nick to elliott. 15:14:10 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 15:14:10 -!- elliott has joined. 15:15:33 21:08:28: Lumpio_: weren't you who said that no one uses gopher anymore 15:15:33 21:09:28: Yes. 15:15:33 21:09:36: I guess that would imply zzo38 is a no-one. 15:15:41 Lumpio-: It's more that he doesn't count as part of "everyone". 15:16:25 21:26:45: Wait a minute, you have a gopher proxy for Stack Overflow!? 15:16:30 It's read-only, or I'd use it exclusively :'( 15:16:37 ¬u¬ 15:17:02 I doubt OAuth would support Gopher anyways 15:17:43 OpenID, no? 15:17:48 er 15:17:48 yes 15:17:50 OpenId. 15:17:51 That. 15:18:14 Any authentication mechanism that doesn't support gopher is useless. 15:19:47 HTTP-over-Gopher 15:21:11 22:21:21: does anyone know what needs to be done to a chroot, to be able to connect to a postgresql database (that's outside the chroot) from inside it? 15:21:18 ais523: If it uses a TCP socket, then "nothing", I think. 15:21:24 If it doesn't, maybe make it so it does? 15:21:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:21:32 However, I — how rude. 15:21:39 — I hear that you can send fds over Unix sockets. 15:21:41 Right, kmc? 15:29:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:29:48 hi ais523 15:29:56 hiel 15:30:10 tabcomplnoworkwithoutspace 15:30:17 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:31:40 elliott: you can telnet nethack4.org now, btw 15:31:48 I recommend using telnet-ssl, to annoy kerio 15:31:49 hmm 15:32:02 I'm sure telnet will be sufficiently annoying to start with 15:32:05 or ssh nethack@nethack4.org, password is nethack 15:32:21 elliott: right, but I'm trying to undermine his main argument about ssh's superiority 15:32:28 anyway, if I play NetHack 4, I might forget the little amount of knowledge of how to play Crawl that I have 15:32:34 ais523: you should set up mosh 15:32:38 ais523: it'd be ideal for NetHack 15:32:42 since most of the screen doesn't change each turn 15:32:48 and it'd ensure consistent cross-terminal support 15:33:04 (also, it authenticates over ssh, so you only have to install the mosh-server program and let ssh connectors use it) 15:33:08 doesn't mosh assume that it isn't on a vastly shared account with separate sessions per user? 15:33:24 I think you can set it up to run any program you want 15:33:27 ask kmc :P 15:33:43 but it doesn't necessarily assume that beyond the fact that it starts a shell 15:33:57 well, it isn't starting a shell in nethack4.org's case 15:34:07 right, that's why I said you'd have to configure it to start the right program 15:34:11 but you have to do that with ssh too 15:34:18 I set nethack's login shell as a compiled executable that chroots to a hardcoded directory, drops permissions, and runs a hardcoded executable 15:34:27 suid, of course 15:34:39 * ais523 thinks there's something delightfully self-contradictory about a suid login shell 15:34:45 right, so that just has to recognise whatever arguments ssh adds if you pass it "mosh-server blah blah blah" 15:34:57 and start mosh-server with the hardcoded executable it runs as a parameter 15:37:08 wow, how can a tr0lltherapy comment be at 315 points? 15:38:28 -!- ellisonch has joined. 15:39:30 `welcome ellisonch 15:39:35 even if you will massively disrupt tab-completion 15:39:41 ellisonch: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 15:41:13 -!- nortti has joined. 15:44:16 elliott: I can ping you easily enough with e tab 15:44:24 that pings EgoBot here 15:44:30 ais523: anyway, that only works if i was the last e to talk, I think 15:44:32 although arguably bash-like rather than cmd-like completion would be better in this case 15:44:34 elliott: indeed 15:44:36 but you usually are 15:44:46 so if someone else is the last e to talk, I can just shout at them for not being you 15:44:47 it should be based on frequency of how much you ping someone, IMO 15:44:58 unless they haven't talked in ages 15:45:05 elliott: if I just press tab, it repeats my last ping 15:45:12 but I rarely do that, hard to get into the habit 15:45:24 (there was no need to ping on that line, but I did anyway for testing purposes) 15:55:59 ais523: same here 15:58:52 ais523: OK, I'll try NetHack 4 15:59:04 * elliott starts X11 15:59:21 for some reason, it doesn't do anything but ASCII graphics on the server, not sure what that's about 15:59:27 probably some misconfiguration in the chroot 15:59:56 ais523: how long are the passwords? 16:00:23 elliott: as big as can fit into the internal buffer, I think; they get hashed and salted, and the resulting hash seems to be around 50-60 chars long 16:00:29 including the copy of the salt 16:00:42 ugh, you should truncate them at 8 chars like CDO so I have less to type 16:00:46 (I can't paste into X11) 16:00:54 you could just use a shorter password? 16:00:59 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:01:05 technically :P 16:01:08 there's no reason your password has to be max length 16:01:17 but that way I can't blame the server for password insecurity 16:01:18 only myself 16:01:31 -!- nortti has joined. 16:02:15 ais523: actually, I think ssh /is/ superior to telnet for game servers, just for better reasons than kerio 16:02:24 because you can let people register with an SSH key rather than a password 16:02:41 katia:~ elliott$ cat /dev/urandom | tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9' | head -c 20 16:02:41 tr: Illegal byte sequence 16:02:43 hmm, except that would require creating users on the server 16:02:44 ugh, come on, OS X 16:02:54 what a bizarre error 16:02:58 ais523: well, or using an SSH library to hook up the authentication to something else 16:03:07 elliott: are you using OS X? 16:03:12 fwiw, I use head -c on /dev/urandom, followed by uuencode, to produce random passwords 16:03:15 but it's not really a problem to create a bunch of users; you can do it in a chroot if you want to avoid cluttering up the rest of the system 16:03:23 nortti: yes, because my keyboard is broken 16:04:04 OK, setting LANG=C makes tr do what I want there 16:05:54 one thing that's weird: running gcc with all locale settings set to C rather than my usual en_GB.utf8 16:06:07 the messages are still in English, but different 16:07:25 "Confirm password:" fuuuuck 16:07:42 please tell me it autologsin after that 16:08:01 elliott: you'll be logged in after confirming 16:08:04 ais523: are the default settings sane 16:08:08 yes 16:08:12 thank christ 16:08:14 although one of them doesn't work and the fallback is insane 16:08:27 why are you using a password more complcated than you can type, anyway? 16:08:35 and why can't you just copy it with dragover/middleclick? 16:09:03 ais523: because I'd usually use the same password I use for more or less everything (terrible habit, I know, but I haven't thought of a convenient enough fix yet), except I refuse to type that over telnet 16:09:09 so I just generate a random one and email it to myself 16:09:32 ais523: bug: it mangles the case of the name I give it 16:09:45 ugh, first thing I did was type o 16:10:01 ais523: bug two: Ctrl+hjkl doesn't work 16:10:16 oh, it does 16:10:19 just not through doors, or something 16:10:29 you wouldn't expect it to work through doors 16:10:38 elliott: I swap o and v in Crawl 16:10:45 you can swap o and v in nh4, if you like 16:10:51 I keep hitting v for x 16:10:54 because I do x...v 16:11:01 oh, you have autoexplore! 16:11:03 yay 16:11:16 bug three: G isn't travel :P 16:11:24 you can swap G and _ too if you like 16:11:48 wow, early-game nethack monsters are so weak compared to Crawl 16:12:27 ais523: blue is a bad choice for text, btw 16:12:34 because the default colour for it is usually too dark to be readable 16:12:46 elliott: you can turn on use_darkgray and it'll be darkgray instead 16:13:00 that's not on by default because it has rendering problems on many terminals, and it wouldn't do for it to be invisible 16:13:00 I was making a defaults suggestion, but thanks 16:13:07 zzo38: You wanted to see my shell script gopher client: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28915864/shgopher 16:13:48 @tell zzo38 Myhell script gopher client: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28915864/shgopher 16:13:48 Consider it noted. 16:15:09 wow, it's amazing just how weird NetHack feels after playing Crawl for a few days 16:17:02 ais523: btw, does nethack4.org have spectators? 16:17:08 if yes, why does it force you to log in first? 16:17:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:23 elliott: not yet, although you can see recordings of games after they happen (including other people's) 16:17:29 it hasn't been implemented yet 16:17:44 what was wrong with dgamelaunch, out of curiosity? 16:17:55 it's not a good fit for nitrohack's view of the world 16:18:01 hmm, howso? 16:18:05 and it's pretty cruftily coded internally 16:18:28 it's got too much of a dependence on the terminal settings of the person playing 16:18:52 wow, this level is really weird 16:19:35 (http://ompldr.org/vZGhlZw) 16:20:51 ais523: btw, why does the weak message say "SPECIES needs food, badly!"? it does that in nethack too 16:20:52 it's weird 16:21:05 elliott: it's a reference to Gauntlet 16:21:08 and it's not species 16:21:30 valkyrie isn't a species? 16:21:30 it triggers only on things that were classes in gauntlet; elf was a class, so was wizard, and a couple of others 16:21:39 indeed, it isn't, it's a class 16:21:57 fair enough 16:22:07 oh, good point 16:23:01 ais523: hearing the chime of a cash register probably shouldn't stop travel 16:23:14 it does? 16:23:22 hmm, it seemed to just there 16:23:26 but I could be misinterpreting the situation 16:23:30 I don't think I've changed anything about that wrt travel stoppers 16:23:35 did you see a monster, or step on an item or engraving? 16:23:38 well, that's why i'm making suggestions :) 16:23:44 I don't think I saw a monster, but I could have 16:24:29 ais523: another bug: tab doesn't do my fighting for me ;) 16:25:40 wow, Firefox doesn't support javascript: URIs any more 16:25:43 I wonder what that means for bookmarklets? 16:26:02 elliott: what? it doesn't? 16:26:04 or all the sites that still use them? 16:26:21 ais523: oh, good point; it's probably just direct address-bar entry they've disabled 16:26:32 elliott: what firefox version are you running? 16:26:39 I'm not 16:26:50 ais523: hmm, autoexplore will happily explore even if there's monsters about 16:27:04 elliott: but only one step, if they're a threat 16:27:20 it's not identical to Crawl autoexplore, it's meant to stop at places where there's a reasonable choice of continuing or stopping 16:27:37 yes, I'm just reporting every way the interface differs from Crawl's as a bug :) 16:27:42 apart from the things i hate about crawl's interface 16:29:05 that was fun 16:29:13 wow, I'm #5 of all time 16:29:21 everyone else must be really terrible 16:29:39 elliott: no, the server just only came up very recently 16:29:42 shhhh 16:29:48 all the /good/ players haven't died yet :) 16:29:52 ais523: btw, it's not clear that the scrollbars are really scrollbars 16:30:01 I suggest putting e.g. Unicode up and down arrows at the top and bottom of them 16:30:17 that'd leave less room for the bar itself, which is a problem on a smaller screen 16:30:22 no, put them inside the bar 16:30:27 at the topmost and bottommost positions 16:30:36 I mean it'd shorten the bar by 2 16:30:39 no 16:30:43 it would leave the bar at the exact same size 16:30:50 you put the arrows /inside/ the bar 16:31:04 if you really have one-character-big scrollbars, put an UPDOWN ARROW in them, I'm sure there's a character like that 16:35:28 * elliott plays some crawl instead 16:39:28 ais523: hey, which Crawl bot is which, again? 16:39:54 elliott: Henzell reports on CAO; Gretell reports on CDO; Sequell reports stats in response to IRC questions 16:40:09 generally speaking, for IRC queries, learndb stuff goes to Henzell, everything else to Sequell 16:40:12 hmm, so Sequell is the one I want to ask about monsters/items? 16:40:15 I thought there were two bots 16:40:19 one of which did monsters and the other items, or something 16:40:29 oh, not sure on that one, if you're looking for raw stats 16:40:34 ask henzell if you're looking for learndb entries 16:40:40 well, I want to ask the question "is this better than this", mainly :P 16:41:35 try looking at in-game information? i then the item letter 16:42:41 meh, I'd rather know before I pick it up 16:43:02 05:08:37: Henzell responds to ?? 16:43:02 05:08:46: Gretell responds to @?? 16:43:04 ah, that was it 16:44:23 ais523: hmm, what syntax does sequell use? 16:44:47 elliott: ??!lg 16:45:09 not in /msg, it seems 16:45:16 elliott: in /msg to Henzell 16:45:20 I know, I just tried it 16:45:22 err... I said sequell 16:45:42 elliott: the documentation on how to use sequell is a learndb entry 16:45:45