< 1333929616 94894 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1333929625 156408 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your actual objection < 1333929642 323598 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're starting out and you want a bunch of little list-type problems < 1333929647 746271 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like some Nightwish songs < 1333929656 132051 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps beginners want preserve their species, so they want beginners to stay beginners. < 1333929678 748282 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like all nightwish songs, i just cannot listen to them objectively :( < 1333929734 949121 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean even this stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JatD5SyRhLk < 1333929739 756820 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking perfection < 1333929788 237290 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i somehow feel that's not usually my style < 1333929797 499056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they're all poor because they're all designed specifically to show off prolog's constraint solving < 1333929802 499541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was translated from lisp from prolog < 1333929816 874733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so there's also "how awesome lisp's list processing" stuff is too) < 1333929830 769393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they include all the lisp examples inline < 1333929834 330447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches for more funny videos about planned parenthood
< 1333929851 40892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of the argument orders are non-idiomatic because of the translation etc < 1333929855 908039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc. < 1333929872 493640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alex Exposes Planned Parenthood" < 1333929874 185767 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bible was translated from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English < 1333929884 140332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, please < 1333929889 435909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: by translated i mean "literally just translated" < 1333929899 837787 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a wiki elliott... < 1333929914 783961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i don't have the admin powers to delete those pages, what's your point < 1333929921 527500 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could fix them :) < 1333929939 243485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're poor, the whole idea of translating prolog problems to haskell wholesale as a means of teaching haskell (note that people have been recommended this *over* LYAH by beginners) < 1333929940 17516 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree they're not the best quality, but you seem to be picking nits < 1333929943 334196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is doomed < 1333929951 408503 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's not a replacement for LYAH at all < 1333929954 976728 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem don't *explain* anything < 1333929957 615817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care that they exist, i care that people end up reading them as major learning material < 1333929963 642289 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are exercises to do while you read LYAH or GIH or whatever < 1333929971 566540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLELY because other people who got recommended them did, etc. etc. i've never seen a single person who actually knows haskell recommend them < 1333929975 727653 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people say otherwise then they're being dumb and you should hit them < 1333929977 952266 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sticks < 1333929980 386775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does not fill me with confidence that they help people learn haskell < 1333930001 915452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well I think people tend to end up reading LYAH but end up very distorted because the only code they're trying to write is what are in the 99 problems < 1333930016 22687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's impossible to stop people recommending bad tutorials in haskell, you know that < 1333930059 756160 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1333930067 942071 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've recommended the 99 problems and I know haskell pretty well < 1333930088 463581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1333930093 527700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably not that bad if you already have the basics down < 1333930102 174931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do think they'll be a bad influence on newbies < 1333930103 253266 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never really wrote an actual problem in haskell < 1333930116 258046 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wrote these little list manipulation things and thought it's a neat language < 1333930117 796479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are not nearly essential, so recommending them before the "i just wanna write more haskell" stage is bad < 1333930127 322527 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then back to pythen for actual programs < 1333930160 394052 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pythan < 1333930167 866514 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pythong < 1333930349 805915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok interact looks perfect, saves having to compile a separate file too because GCHi only implements a subset of Haskell and it's not equatable to python or irb < 1333930411 439280 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3382491587979249836 < 1333930477 970278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1333930511 731229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1333930512 222959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hat < 1333930655 907305 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should get a car < 1333930819 100045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to David Hasselhof, the video was intended as a joke, a parody of himself." < 1333930836 373072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1333930836 725276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 9 01:21:04 < 1333930860 685932 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these natural etc computing conferences have "amorphous computing" on their list of topics < 1333930862 692241 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck is that < 1333930877 811782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amorphous < 1333930886 223320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_computing < 1333930895 507840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coined by abelson, knight, sussman < 1333930900 101490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't argue with that < 1333930923 645012 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, cellular automata? < 1333930938 858280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a list of examples :P < 1333930946 973036 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no mathematical definition D: < 1333930952 760053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfpaper? < 1333930969 845590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'm gonna compile hugs < 1333930971 972796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish me luck < 1333930978 988979 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay luck < 1333930985 940821 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :average luck < 1333930988 296486 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm back on kde 3.5 (trinity) < 1333931002 701304 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't wanna read, i want a one-line definition :( < 1333931013 379292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think you will find it is not a precise term. < 1333931023 933815 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1333931064 417447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self < 1333931065 302607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short version (for Unix-like environments): < 1333931065 475737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : make EXTRA_CONFIGURE_OPTS=--prefix=$HOME < 1333931065 651097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : make clean < 1333931065 811560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $HOME/bin/hugs $HOME/lib/hugs/demos/Say < 1333931067 414929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : putStr (say " /Hugs") < 1333931069 359048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :quit < 1333931075 270183 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clowns < 1333931128 580200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what < 1333931137 119351 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1333931175 960194 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i let my fingers run free, and somehow it said clowns on my screen. < 1333931189 436942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************ < 1333931189 614832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** NOW DO: make ; make install < 1333931189 774971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************ < 1333931189 775147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd src; make all < 1333931190 13190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h;elp < 1333931193 421357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: happens < 1333931198 967246 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1333931230 894372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTBLK... 15 < 1333931231 68437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTCONN... 107 < 1333931231 228479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTDIR... 20 < 1333931231 228577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTEMPTY... 39 < 1333931231 228621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTSOCK... 88 < 1333931231 421685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENOTTY... 25 < 1333931233 361559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of ENXIO... 6 < 1333931235 317399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking value of EOPNOTSUPP... 95 < 1333931237 437231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it checking every error < 1333931240 259073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was < 1333931334 854765 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333931630 344839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking AL/alext.h presence... yes < 1333931630 698192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: present but cannot be compiled < 1333931630 858399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: check for missing prerequisite headers? < 1333931630 858582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: see the Autoconf documentation < 1333931630 858689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: section "Present But Cannot Be Compiled" < 1333931631 405759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: proceeding with the preprocessor's result < 1333931633 362865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: AL/alext.h: in the future, the compiler will take precedence < 1333931635 479614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: ## ----------------------------------- ## < 1333931637 458838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: ## Report this to sven.panne@aedion.de ## < 1333931639 437338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: ## ----------------------------------- ## < 1333931641 420061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry sven!!!! < 1333931698 476457 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :autokhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanf < 1333931701 585990 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP FLOODING YOU'RE RUINING MY BUZZ < 1333931719 525180 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe i should get a car ← noooooo < 1333931737 975626 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like having sex with teenagers :( < 1333931756 556256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you watch to the end he didn't get to that part < 1333931761 700154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry!! < 1333931771 751306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"present but cannot be compiled" is a complex workaround to avoid making a breaking change in autoconf < 1333931774 406674 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but the girl was willing < 1333931776 736676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, to make it gradually < 1333931812 493563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idgi < 1333931857 778892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, it used to check the existence of a header file, nowadays it checks to see if #including it breaks a test program < 1333931866 378931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky hugs98-plus-Sep2006]$ ~/hugs/bin/hugs < 1333931866 732170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :__ __ __ __ ____ ___ _________________________________________ < 1333931866 892777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| || || || || || ||__ Hugs 98: Based on the Haskell 98 standard < 1333931866 892965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :||___|| ||__|| ||__|| __|| Copyright (c) 1994-2005 < 1333931866 893073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :||---|| ___|| World Wide Web: http://haskell.org/hugs < 1333931867 438991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| || Bugs: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hugs < 1333931869 559671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| || Version: September 2006 _________________________________________ < 1333931871 892216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a breaking change because some headers will #error out if missing prerequisites < 1333931879 230236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i'm like indiana jones < 1333931914 552195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say> putStr (say " /Hugs") < 1333931914 728663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : H H U U GGGG SSSS < 1333931914 903397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : H H U U G S < 1333931915 64346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : HHHHH U U G GG SSS < 1333931915 64517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : H H U U G G S < 1333931915 437014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : H H UUU GGG SSSS < 1333931917 199044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, the power of hugs < 1333932007 111448 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just realized i may be bored < 1333932009 461468 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you hugging < 1333932036 429277 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized this as i was peeing < 1333932069 823839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well remember that reflection code i linked you to < 1333932077 67853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works on hugs with minor modifications < 1333932090 76069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm doing now is i'm going to try and install cabal-install with hugs < 1333932094 134945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1333932094 664224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaeh < 1333932095 898190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1333932150 551344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh my current problem is that i have no idea how to import modules in hugs < 1333932210 628512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that the last version of hugs that you pasted the output from? < 1333932290 146351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, September 2006, a bugfix release < 1333932298 665159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the major May 2006 release < 1333932307 953914 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1333932311 482251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the successor to the March 2005 interim release :p < 1333932327 514703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1333932330 9417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wow? < 1333932338 128327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't realise it had been dead for quite that long < 1333932357 792041 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :also? < 1333932358 172481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth are you using hugs though? < 1333932384 129095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thanks, that... sort of works. < 1333932387 965354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs.Prelude> :also Data.Map < 1333932388 321052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR "/home/elliott/hugs/lib/hugs/packages/base/Data/Maybe.hs":98 - Undefined type constructor "Maybe" < 1333932396 524131 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow as in I had no idea cabal install even worked on hugs < 1333932397 381317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To make this code more portable! < 1333932401 967096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, I'm not sure it does < 1333932409 337355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but I know cabal made some token effort of supporting other compilers circa 2006 < 1333932417 121900 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333932417 332601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i mean i don't need cabal-install really, just cabal itself < 1333932424 416923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe i can get an old enough version of cabal < 1333932427 842778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1333932458 210451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the problem is that Data.Maybe doesn't declare Maybe. < 1333932460 745547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't it declare Maybe? < 1333932474 805352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromJust Nothing = error "Maybe.fromJust: Nothing" -- yuck < 1333932474 983320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck indeed. < 1333932603 165104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, ok < 1333932604 103400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1333932610 254682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that file has the definition of Maybe behind an ifndef Hugs < 1333932625 706574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite understand because < 1333932636 832306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely hugs can't be so completely broken that Data.Maybe does not work < 1333932686 512919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1333932689 681432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::also Data.Maybe < 1333932690 562444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::also Data.Map < 1333932691 91560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1333932710 224481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: woot, hugs actually ships with cabal < 1333932727 588294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's 1.1.5.9.2 < 1333932751 85730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is it ok to update boot packages with hugs? < 1333932909 166675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/hugs/ticket/89 < 1333932912 697363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this *the* doug mcilroy? < 1333932960 735574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is, wow! < 1333932980 844340 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333933088 158106 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333933928 545358 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-18.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1333933936 311560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-255-178.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333934240 884230 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333934438 504389 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333934981 11491 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1333935151 391249 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333935457 970813 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1333935613 538761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/rzb7m/hi_there_i_have_a_gcse_level_high_school/ < 1333935614 37733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1333935619 686433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH LOOK half the links are LessWrong. < 1333935644 945690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, if there's one thing Eliezer is good at, it's explaining Bayesian probability. < 1333935668 831585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a big 'if'. < 1333935672 839295 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1333935680 989531 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :harry potter and the difference between alternating current and direct current < 1333935739 604629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1333935767 10470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't get the reference (after "and", I mean).
< 1333935785 75489 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333937278 15482 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1333937865 356287 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333939795 361296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1333939941 218952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333939952 960553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-255-178.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1333940548 810359 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Eliezer? < 1333940615 147665 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333940617 946495 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's that again < 1333940632 566924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yudkowsky < 1333940675 319770 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1333940710 917453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about him. is he one of those conceited fellows? or is that just wolfram < 1333940719 700372 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the less wrong guy right < 1333940727 80446 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know anything about that either < 1333940750 849463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333941940 519144 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1333941947 315929 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have any of you written any self-hosting compilers? < 1333941984 212079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... probably have < 1333941996 715373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget if i ever actually have... but i certainly could, i'm just lazy :p < 1333941999 586280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome qfr < 1333942005 547844 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1333942081 667851 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try it some time. < 1333942085 323872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, compiler? < 1333942590 464938 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/08/satirical-article-in-rutgers-student-newspaper-under-fire-for-praising-hitler < 1333942594 733818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crappy headline is crappy < 1333942687 591106 :Case1!~Dr._Danee@adsl-74-178-237-46.jax.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333943027 539561 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1333943051 60770 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, compiler < 1333943066 820651 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333943071 623685 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, you go through the annoying stack of PE/ELF/whatever things < 1333943096 477771 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And opcode generation < 1333943112 757019 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to show off to people on IRC < 1333943203 969935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can delegate ELF generation to the linker < 1333943212 828904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :producing assembly or even C is not that difficult < 1333943376 114321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333943381 365115 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minimal ELF executable is also pretty simple < 1333943392 175776 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html < 1333943418 665258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that C would have to be able to compile C, right? < 1333943421 812706 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're writing a compiler and not a masochist, you would use something like LLVM < 1333943425 395629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1333943427 968367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always have dependencies < 1333943433 771747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance your output code will make syscalls < 1333943520 410364 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what dependency would I use to compile the C? < 1333943524 364067 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliezer's articles have way too many letters < 1333943609 631945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a static Linux executable that can compile itself without linking in external libs is a reasonable place to draw the line < 1333943616 2898 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're talking about pointlessly hard things for showing off < 1333943628 44340 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next step would be an OS that hosts its own compiler too < 1333943639 461829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: gcc < 1333943853 7147 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1333943855 267228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What compiler are you writing? And how large will the executables be if compiled by LLVM? < 1333943926 170830 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, my executables will be -1 bytes in size. < 1333943957 285816 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if I made it into a virus that duplicated itself wildly on the machine, everyone would love me! < 1333944017 550907 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.226.20 NICK :MSleep < 1333944194 358962 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333944484 851719 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:46:43] you can delegate ELF generation to the linker < 1333944492 433025 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the fun in letting other software do the work! < 1333944509 57345 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do everything with syscalls, for great justice < 1333944513 481419 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 dependency files < 1333944540 153083 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly autonomous userland software! < 1333944542 54827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: incorrect < 1333944548 768116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll depend on a few thousand files: the linux kernel < 1333944556 610615 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice the "userland" part :P < 1333944563 161887 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I excluded that already < 1333944569 226592 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it depends on the operating system still < 1333944590 43100 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise we'd end up with an entire operating system < 1333944592 204419 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just a binary < 1333944593 620208 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it won't work if it isn't Linux. (And even if it is Linux, the ways of doing syscalls might differ if it is not x86) < 1333944616 77089 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do Syscalls on Windows, too < 1333944622 291667 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without kernel32.dll < 1333944623 461291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a program for IBM PC, which depends on only the BIOS < 1333944635 203367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Yes, but you cannot do Linux syscalls on Windows. < 1333944645 186385 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Windows can't load ELFs anyways < 1333944667 658382 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you want a self-hosting OS type thing, I suggest you go the lazy route and make it a bare-metal Forth. < 1333944671 731492 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if somebody has written an ELF loader for Windows < 1333944673 834350 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be amusing < 1333944674 659933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse < 1333944675 736080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333944677 360772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel has < 1333944680 266196 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice heh < 1333944684 409016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works on OS X too < 1333944686 774602 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: How goes Microcosm II, anyways? < 1333944692 980813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/gelfload < 1333944705 428282 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest I've gotten to portable binaries is C# honestly < 1333944709 323700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes I once wrote something like that too, but it used the BIOS too < 1333944716 220355 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I just compile stuff with Visual Studio for Linux servers < 1333944730 820440 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mono is fabulous < 1333944740 76646 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't someone write a Linux ELF loader in Perl < 1333944764 466411 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I permit BIOS use on IBM-compatibles. < 1333944770 613980 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a perl script which will "exec" an ELF not by calling execve(2) but by mmapping and copying stuff < 1333944780 684948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use Mono, then, yes; you could write a program in Visual Studio which work in both Windows and Linux, I suppose < 1333944785 915619 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IO.STS boot sector demo competition was fun: http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/ < 1333944795 716082 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amounts to the basic hardware interface. < 1333944831 412153 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 yep < 1333944842 621166 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's remarkable how flawlessly it works honestly < 1333944846 821084 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely have probelms with this approach < 1333944863 52181 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language do you use? < 1333944864 356782 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started developing services for Linux in C# on Windows < 1333944878 116775 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they work on Windows, Linux, MacOS and FreeBSD < 1333944880 644851 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# seems like a reasonable language to me < 1333944884 933958 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to exchange some dependencies occasionally < 1333944888 684857 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Java taken to the logical conclusion, rather than arbitrarily crippled < 1333944895 939183 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exciting to PL snobs but fine for getting work done < 1333944905 405758 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I use System.Data.SQLite for SQLite databases on Windows, but I use Mono.Data.Sqlite on Linux < 1333944920 303705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think that kind of attitude is harmful. < 1333944925 501083 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mono often has its own version of something that is a third party dependency on Windows < 1333944940 439546 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc I'm actually currently busy rewriting Java services in C# < 1333944945 904991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mono still defaults to Boehm GC... < 1333944947 893052 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they were using too much memory and had ugly GUIs :| < 1333944951 899576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which attitude? < 1333944959 156899 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ is that a bad GC, in yoru opinion? < 1333944961 865697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that it downplays advances in PLT as mere language snobbery that couldn't help getting work done... it's undeniable that C#'s family of language etc. has major major underlying problems. It's true that they're an acceptable stopgap, and "work" as much as we expect anything to work. < 1333944971 520884 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have LLVM support btw, but it's not used by default right now < 1333944974 792679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to say it's fine is a bit too far for me. < 1333944978 508366 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Boehm is basically a giant hack. < 1333944993 127059 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have low standards elliott < 1333945005 565156 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used Haskell enough to be frustrated with it, as well < 1333945009 226833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is designed to garbage collect idiomatic C. < 1333945009 695706 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because reflection doesn't work properly with their LLVM bindings right now, I think < 1333945010 826376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have unreasonably high standards. < 1333945021 373209 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for that purpose, it kinda-sorta works. < 1333945032 620438 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ are you saying it leaks memory in Mono? < 1333945035 492501 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that? < 1333945038 818763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can. < 1333945081 981710 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of how C works, any value in your program *might* be a pointer to memory, and the GC has no way of knowing. < 1333945098 439368 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boehm won't handle xor linked lists :/ < 1333945121 947820 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With moderately high memory use on 32-bit systems, it starts leaking like a sieve. < 1333945135 31156 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll also leak if you've got bad luck. < 1333945148 286758 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound good < 1333945168 798597 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1333945182 42261 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask some people who are using my C# service on Linux/MacOS if they've observed any leakage < 1333945196 463408 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only run it temporarily so I can't check, I shut down my box at night < 1333945206 421045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that it can't move any memory around (because of how C works), so it has to do somewhat slower algorithms for allocation and garbage collection. < 1333945255 731799 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically though, Boehm GC is about as useful as libcaca. :) < 1333945346 521178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if, you write it a direct LLVM code? < 1333945406 757786 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What do you mean when you say C++ is bad in a way opposite to most languages? < 1333945428 400655 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LLVM have anything to do with garbage collection btw? < 1333945431 849747 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that orthogonal? < 1333945442 271672 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly orthogonal. < 1333945455 946731 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think most bad languages get to be bad because the designers keep heaping on features without an idea of how it should all fit together < 1333945473 185081 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the ability to feed some information to a garbage collector if you write one, but otherwise is utterly ignorant of it. < 1333945484 941944 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has a lot of features, but they are exquisitely crafted to fit together just so < 1333945503 576440 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you understand C++ well enough, you see what the designers were going for; it makes sense and is pretty cool and even a bit elegant < 1333945504 706332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think LLVM does have some things relating to garbage collection < 1333945512 201384 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they were going for is something no other language does well, imo < 1333945518 14995 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately C++ does not do it well either < 1333945534 857298 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because while its conceptual basis may be sound, it's just too cumbersome to get work done < 1333945546 888695 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's crippled by a few bad decisions alongside the good ones < 1333945560 100697 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the decision to incorporate most of C as first-class citizens (syntactically and semantically) < 1333945607 931118 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fit together just so" < 1333945610 792888 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1333945612 28080 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1333945615 409113 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha < 1333945641 582245 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiomatic C++ code is pretty high level and mostly memory-safe < 1333945649 956561 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it's too cumbersome, so people fall back to the C way of doing things < 1333945665 856394 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What things were you frustrated with in Haskell? We can work together make up the new programming language I do have many idea so you can do that including whatever is wrong hopefully can make a correction in case we know better. < 1333945668 496970 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we complain that C++ has both std::vector and operator new[]... well, operator new[] is there so that you can implement std::vector < 1333945670 883048 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry < 1333945676 495884 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ does not fit together at all < 1333945687 117288 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work on clang < 1333945692 330486 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm sorry. < 1333945694 655946 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, for a Haskell-like programming language; for a C-like programming language I have another idea another different one < 1333945697 272962 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C++ were a better language, the unsafe bits would be like all the unsafe bits of GHC Haskell < 1333945702 281146 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs pikhq for support
< 1333945704 855156 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not something you use all over ordinary applications code < 1333945727 160264 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Would you like to regale kmc with edge cases? < 1333945730 472954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks kmc sounds like someone who has never actually used C++
< 1333945734 201454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for real(tm) < 1333945742 400732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is also amused at coppro's reaction seeing as he's the C++ fanboy
< 1333945743 726966 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1333945746 793596 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a bunch of haphazard features that interact in random ways but that, if you try hard enough, you can bolt on enough libraries to make it a useable language < 1333945769 221135 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clang would fix that. < 1333945776 922079 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries are a bad thing now? < 1333945780 14552 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have written quite a bit of C++ < 1333945783 659579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like gcc solves any love of GNU. < 1333945789 969441 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun part of C++ is that everyone can pick a different subset of libraries to make it useable and things still work together < 1333945790 931168 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was a professional C++ programmer, i knew more about the language than most of my co-workers < 1333945798 218759 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't have to believe me < 1333945817 391286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any mortals know a majority of the language? < 1333945817 901281 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go back to what i was doing before; working on an open-source C++ project < 1333945822 147334 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ no < 1333945846 794640 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: mosh? < 1333945849 334262 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333945859 714650 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but my current project is autoconf hacking, not C++ :/) < 1333945875 101141 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for about 15% of the questions that come up when talking to you, the answer is "mosh". < 1333945875 261792 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be clear in case any of you lack reading comprehension: C++ is a bad language; I'm not saying it's a good language < 1333945887 827576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's bad in an unusual, interesting way < 1333945902 370330 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And they all came back, shook my hand, < 1333945902 566759 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing, < 1333945902 566955 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the < 1333945903 432018 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bench." < 1333945915 68346 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1333945929 638994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes program in C, and sometimes in Haskell. But in both cases I would rather have different things, both cases not yet invented programming languages and even two different ones. But one similar to C, would be also similar to LLVM, and BLISS, and macros. < 1333945950 481821 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Would it also support Enhanced CWEB? < 1333945963 831153 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to INFORM and Magic: the Gathering < 1333945973 175613 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tap writer monad for 2 mana < 1333946009 414415 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Probably not, but it would support its own WEB-like system. < 1333946053 281680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, the one I am writing about, with similar to Haskell-like, would also have some things similar to Inform 7 and Magic: the Gathering, as well as Lisp, Forth, Haskell, etc < 1333946129 98056 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Autoconf? Yikes. < 1333946152 11065 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333946209 712703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, if you have anything wrong with Haskell then please write it down we can make the "Ibtlfmm working group" to write everything down together how to make up the new programming language too < 1333946228 135813 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a fairly non-trivial configure.ac < 1333946257 827096 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think, while it's insane, autoconf is adding value in this project < 1333946264 823366 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know of a less-insane replacement < 1333946294 155485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't", presumably. < 1333946320 808165 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if I didn't use autoconf I would have to write a fairly complex script by hand to replicate everything that we're using autoconf for < 1333946326 707808 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's still better < 1333946331 176447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much stuff are you even using autoconf *for*? < 1333946365 835111 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/keithw/mosh/blob/master/configure.ac < 1333946369 278723 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm adding a big chunk to this < 1333946380 87203 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to detect compiler support for various binary hardening flags < 1333946423 794425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I would, have that things like : is not built-in and [] is defined to mean something by a macro and is also not built-in and so on; as many things as possible should be implemented using macros and/or other features in the programming language itself instead of built-in to the compiler, and minimize (or eliminate) the number of special typeclasses for use by the compiler, etc < 1333946426 522369 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosh uses terminal and network APIs and builds on GNU/Linux, OS X, FreeBSD, iOS (sort of), Android (sort of) < 1333946439 317224 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are a lot of platform differences to deal with < 1333946477 222623 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition, we have a fairly configurable build: warning level, which parts to build (client, server, tests, examples), whether to use certain libraries (and whether to get them from the system or build them with mosh), etc. < 1333946483 674400 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1333946487 841313 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AC_TYPE_SIZE_T. < 1333946494 869847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail. < 1333946534 325460 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you found one line of this 200 line script that's unnecessary? < 1333946541 669683 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several. < 1333946547 78420 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that invalidates the entire point < 1333946550 274602 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole block it's in is obvious autoscan. < 1333946551 930389 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you're being a dick < 1333946564 223694 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "the reason autoconf scripts suck". < 1333946692 170709 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoscan generates an autoconf script basically by scanning for each and every POSIX or ISO function or header, and adding tests for them. < 1333946711 130326 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because this was necessary 20 years ago or something < 1333946712 86638 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given that you *probably* never use the results of that, all that is doing is adding an extra minute on your compile time. < 1333946717 930100 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I agree that some lines here could be trimmed < 1333946733 256093 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you object to the rest of the script < 1333946745 938891 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part which implements functionality porters, distributers, and users have asked for? < 1333946782 55135 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, looks about right for a large project that uses features that aren't extant on *all* non-insane platforms. < 1333946806 318449 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1333946807 22396 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1333947133 967096 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ I just talked to Mono people < 1333947137 35511 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :They they use SGEN now < 1333947143 162100 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not BOehm GC? < 1333947197 996508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Ah, so they must've just done the switch-over. < 1333947210 931741 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they spent rather a while working on a new, sane GC. < 1333947226 775359 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's good. < 1333947424 137516 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1333947427 905497 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SGEN alright? < 1333947431 121212 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of Boehm GC before < 1333947436 347402 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEN is a first for me < 1333947447 77966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it's new for mono < 1333947452 394249 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly know the implications of garbage collection anyways < 1333947462 714674 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my head it's all about reference counting < 1333947469 394158 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And predictable deallocatin < 1333947470 784292 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty sure SGEN is the name of the for-Mono GC. < 1333947481 770743 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any components of garbage collection that involve heuristics? < 1333947483 922634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: reference counting sucks < 1333947488 341965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, conservative collection < 1333947490 263689 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: In Boehm, yes. < 1333947491 8676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as practiced by boehm gc < 1333947497 289329 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott what's the problem with reference counting? < 1333947504 832510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: slow < 1333947517 423133 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern computers, memory writes are *slow*. < 1333947518 114185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't handle cycles < 1333947521 74942 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written an application that embedded the C Python API in another application < 1333947525 594905 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abusing it for embedded scripting < 1333947529 546916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your RAM is 200MHz. < 1333947532 331493 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember, it required manual reference counting management < 1333947532 613917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: don't forget the branch accompanied with every memory write < 1333947536 930214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, CPython does < 1333947540 11851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPython is also slow as all heck < 1333947547 746123 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, and yes, branches. Which are *cheap*, but not free. < 1333947549 978764 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was no pleasure to work with < 1333947569 741513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the heuristic is: < 1333947571 569020 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in general you want to accumulate groups of allocations/deallocations on the heap instead? < 1333947574 563002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't distinguish between integers and pointers in memory < 1333947584 963260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you have an integer with the same value as a pointer < 1333947593 619085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boehm and all conservative collectors count it as a reference < 1333947609 247752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: another slowness of refcounting is that it puts free() right there in a critical path < 1333947614 428480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and free() can be pretty slow itself < 1333947623 952427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: what's fast is copying garbage collection < 1333947631 661356 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the trick is that you want to invoke the heap manager as infrequently as possible? < 1333947637 565345 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or avoiding allocation at all. < 1333947638 596896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just start at the roots, copy every object to a new heap, and ignore the next one (using it next GC) < 1333947639 787265 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you do, you want to have it do a lot? < 1333947647 878935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even taht isn't fast though < 1333947650 953736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _generational_ copying collector is < 1333947655 893128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you collect things more often the more recent they are < 1333947658 6244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do work in batches < 1333947675 442586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you basically just periodically copy all the live, newest objects to a new heap < 1333947678 874770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no freeing done at all < 1333947701 364718 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come the Oracle JVM seemingly uses excessive amounts of memory, by the way? Does that have something to do with the way it performs garbage collection? < 1333947716 483721 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've rewritten services I had developed for java in C# < 1333947728 820748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, IME < 1333947735 815097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's largely stereotype < 1333947739 694248 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333947741 459092 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333947741 788300 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-shared working set memory would often drop from 200-300 MiB to about 50 MiB < 1333947744 708131 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the same functionality < 1333947746 261877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, Java has the best GC in existence, more or less < 1333947747 736612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Sato0x < 1333947750 881642 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1333947753 435287 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1333947756 60705 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this 69? < 1333947756 944983 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++[>++++++<-]>>+++[<+++>-] < 1333947764 933342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!brainfuck ++++++++++[>++++++<-]>>+++[<+++>-] < 1333947766 531217 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: That would probably be a matter of style. < 1333947767 728477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!brainfuck ++++++++++[>++++++<-]>>+++[<+++>-]. < 1333947773 948564 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this was a GUI application < 1333947777 724350 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a headless service < 1333947782 683369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on EgoBot < 1333947787 747089 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was using hmm swing, I think < 1333947790 667305 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in C# I used Winforms < 1333947793 47622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Swing is awful < 1333947796 648749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody can deny that :p < 1333947797 149326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swing is terribad. < 1333947799 348029 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Swing a memory hog? < 1333947804 317374 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might explain it < 1333947806 540171 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!brainfuck ++++++++++[>++++++<-]>>+++[<+++>-]. < 1333947809 133016 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but more to the point, it's ridiculous. < 1333947814 209012 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it doing anything? < 1333947834 488830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's 69 < 1333947834 648915 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever I see a Java application it uses 2-3 times the amount of memory I would expect it to use < 1333947835 731493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked < 1333947842 6841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's !bf not !brainfuck, silly me < 1333947842 934900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[>++++++<-]>>+++[<+++>-]. < 1333947844 416989 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse, Azure, Maple come to mind < 1333947844 738062 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1333947847 381516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1333947854 265398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: that's all due to the toolkits really < 1333947858 260674 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1333947867 788578 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typical Java style seems to love memory. < 1333947894 935435 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I were to develop headless services for Linux in Java, the memory consumption wouldn't be significantly different from an equivalent implementation in C# for Mono, you would think? < 1333947905 594377 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1333947910 88672 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why no output?? < 1333947910 386489 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. < 1333947911 982042 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work on low end Linux servers, memory consumption is quite problematic there < 1333947924 373817 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run a lot of Ruby services right now < 1333947931 86646 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are quite the memory hogs I'm afraid < 1333947939 100424 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory consumption is *in general* problematic. < 1333947943 651097 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how much of that it can swap out < 1333947943 819882 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1333947945 939742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: is 69 even printable? < 1333947962 685559 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ it depends on what kind of stuff you do, I have some SQL applications that are CPU/DBMS setting bottlenecked < 1333947966 37032 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory less so < 1333947976 213893 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's unhelpful when you have 1.5 GiB used by Ruby processes < 1333947978 693196 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your working set doesn't fit in *cache*, you are going to see a ridiculous bottleneck. < 1333947985 81364 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a 2 GiB box < 1333947996 293844 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without getting much of them swapped out < 1333948004 182142 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1333948013 107554 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accessing the actual RAM is what swap was like 20 years ago. < 1333948020 800594 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+. should be 1 right? < 1333948024 195999 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :output* < 1333948032 140939 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +. < 1333948032 580500 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. < 1333948033 453835 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ yeah, the working set isn't that big I think < 1333948034 833851 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: It will output the ASCII code for 1. < 1333948038 966460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1333948042 583206 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1333948042 743985 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ASCII equivalent for 1. < 1333948054 428650 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the equiv? < 1333948056 838191 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Measuring memory consumption accurately on Linux is tricky I am told < 1333948064 453798 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on what definition of memory consumption you use etc < 1333948077 867235 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to take into account shared memory/non-shared memory between fork instances and such < 1333948084 669360 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that 50? < 1333948086 698736 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Codepoint 1 is defined as "Start Of Heading", an essentially useless control code. < 1333948096 247753 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux sysadmins tell me to largely ignore the output from htop and such regarding memory consumption < 1333948096 407943 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1333948099 991597 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's by char? < 1333948114 265774 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :49 (U+0031) would get you the actual digit "1". < 1333948119 178175 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to call the char code? < 1333948121 254093 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1333948121 842886 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1333948135 617737 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd have to do 49 1's < 1333948142 80898 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+'s* < 1333948152 245646 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a more complex loop, yes. < 1333948173 941654 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I c, < 1333948176 651643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++[>+++++++<-]. < 1333948177 96216 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1333948180 930652 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH < 1333948187 175255 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++[>+++++++<-]>. < 1333948187 588588 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1333948188 627392 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that + added one to the current < 1333948193 991141 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Yes. < 1333948205 405480 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1333948206 815318 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :value one < 1333948208 623969 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in int < 1333948209 159139 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1333948266 356996 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I using the loops right then?(in the case that bf worked like I'm thinking it does) < 1333948297 275704 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, seems like it. < 1333948302 602744 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1333948303 306952 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1333949155 843062 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333949318 605600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Start Of Heading" is not really a useless control code; it can be used, and so can other ASCII control codes < 1333949366 995530 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, but nothing common actually *does* use it any more. :) < 1333949424 102376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used it sometimes, when there is a heading I want to indicate the start, in an ASCII file, or in an internal ASCII data in memory, might use it < 1333949663 77594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to make up the game "Merciful to Gibbering Mouthers" but I cannot figure it out. Also many other computer games and card games and stuff, I wanted to make up, including sokoban or tetris or whatever with mobius strips, etc < 1333950660 874343 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235039209.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1333950854 622655 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at the Reddit source code, I had no idea it used to run on Lisp and then migrated to Python < 1333950865 187165 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they use PostgreSQL it seems <3 < 1333950987 873156 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it had anything to do with the rarity of professional Lisp developers < 1333951009 408369 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of developers you need is something like O(log(n)) where n is the size of the userbase < 1333951028 760652 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm that's the wrong class < 1333951060 84892 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I make that Omega instead of O? Heh < 1333951079 362158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you should make it Ouch < 1333951102 400781 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1333951142 496873 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I imagine this can be a problem with big projects < 1333951160 448581 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarity of developers available in the area < 1333951166 274351 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who actually know the technology used well enough < 1333951188 874947 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can increase the size of the labour pool that is available to you < 1333951196 696842 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using different technology < 1333951205 80710 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they used Lisp to impress Paul Graham when they were in YC < 1333951208 695657 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then came to their fucking senses < 1333951208 855916 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1333951220 633783 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you are not a friend of the Lisps? < 1333951236 671438 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong < 1333951237 913606 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dabbled with Common Lisp for a bit < 1333951246 99858 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wrote ~400 lines of elisp < 1333951247 866805 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like languages in the Lisp family < 1333951249 737235 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it < 1333951256 567821 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wouldn't try to build a buisness around one, in most circumstances < 1333951266 442462 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is hard to hire people, like you said < 1333951273 418385 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are good alternatives now < 1333951283 383994 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Paul Graham was making ViaWeb, his competitors were using C++ or maybe Perl < 1333951289 297701 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as usual my main beef with the language is that it's typed dynamically < 1333951299 98220 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we have Python, Ruby, Javascript, etc < 1333951304 596155 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm much more comfortable developing services with statically typed languages < 1333951306 697849 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not as pretty as Scheme or as sophisticated as Common Lisp < 1333951315 418338 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of more rigorous compile time checks being possible < 1333951317 281107 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they get the job done and plenty of people know them < 1333951320 265560 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catching a lot of dumb mistakes I make < 1333951339 853266 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I agree < 1333951353 242139 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write services in dynamically typed languages for a while < 1333951356 210310 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and Ruby in particular < 1333951361 602410 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I felt it backfired a lot < 1333951372 482284 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was running after dumb runtime errors all the time < 1333951381 378749 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trends in hipster web startups are against static languages < 1333951383 330869 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I had misspelled the name of some method in a rarely executed branch < 1333951397 481380 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about "iterating" a ball-of-mud non-design < 1333951399 210573 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would crash the server after 1-2 days < 1333951407 63304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slapping clusters and load balancers on everything < 1333951414 195264 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't feel the need to make rigorous unit tests < 1333951417 84086 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have caught these < 1333951428 26103 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that your individual software can crash or use up all memory for no reason < 1333951435 994151 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1333951452 452311 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think dynamic types are ok for some things, but you at least want basic static checking of method names and the like < 1333951452 676808 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my services are still written in Ruby :| I'm currently tryinmg to move on to C# < 1333951457 877631 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyflakes does that for python a bit < 1333951460 420047 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still insecure about the web development patterns I am used < 1333951469 523349 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still torn up about where markup generation belongs < 1333951476 819267 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using* < 1333951488 854803 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a language where some type errors can be resolved at compile time, but others are punted to runtime < 1333951497 377741 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# and Java are this in a sense < 1333951503 13227 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use Ruby for odd jobs all the time < 1333951510 883132 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular scraping stuff from a website for some quick job < 1333951528 404530 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain text transformation jobs < 1333951630 569299 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1333951641 130864 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished my brainfawk interpreter < 1333951668 708861 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good? < 1333951676 137518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is brainfawk different from brainfuck < 1333951681 6983 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333951686 508881 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my way better < 1333951696 214285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not on the wiki; what does it do? < 1333951710 282648 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a misconception about brainfuck < 1333951718 913256 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1333951722 161768 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like the way I was doing it better < 1333951726 690009 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore it's not brainfuck < 1333951730 679525 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brainfawk < 1333951736 145261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the misconception < 1333951762 949228 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that each element was an individual value of 0 at the start < 1333951776 896794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is... < 1333951782 613673 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you incremented/decremented each element through the program < 1333951787 382613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1333951790 382472 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not done < 1333951791 942158 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1333951797 569044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think it is < 1333951815 972738 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that . would print the number value of the element < 1333951830 70142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints the ascii char < 1333951832 318354 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in brainfuck it goes with the ascii char < 1333951833 591442 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333951836 856242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what your other things mean < 1333951839 756881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not ascii < 1333951841 592136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually just binary < 1333951847 828549 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimal? < 1333951883 48467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1333951932 272669 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It outputs just a bitstream, which is going to be interpreted as ASCII (well, actually, it's liable to be interpreted as UTF-8 with VT100 control codes) < 1333951946 223079 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of my brainfuck programs output KOI8-R, i don't know about you < 1333951974 664537 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, maximally esoteric. < 1333951997 368262 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1333952014 318924 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh it's not a very esoteric character encoding < 1333952023 18907 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isn't? < 1333952027 852337 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOI8-R < 1333952034 159649 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc < 1333952037 984111 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x < 1333952039 197163 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that name sounds familiar < 1333952044 480962 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe gny < 1333952047 661090 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Could go for something stranger. Is there an Arabic adaptation of EBCDIC? < 1333952054 190256 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1333952066 89316 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfawk has integers and spaces < 1333952083 618103 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf '\x01' | iconv -f cp437 -t utf8 < 1333952088 179964 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't this give me a smiley face?!? < 1333952103 489386 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Seems fairly unuseful. < 1333952106 721131 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allaah doesn't love you enough, kmc < 1333952106 881325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so brainfawk is pretty much your average brainfuck derivative < 1333952113 465112 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you don't get a smiley < 1333952138 332002 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it only sometimes stands for a smiley < 1333952144 111454 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, where's ph < 1333952149 898439 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other times it's SOH < 1333952150 423790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does allaah love me < 1333952173 25548 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Allaah loves Haskell people < 1333952178 205631 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ﷺ < 1333952181 746041 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only those who are lost in discussing abstract concepts < 1333952192 535706 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you start actually coding in Haskell, the love fades < 1333952199 312195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done that < 1333952202 513301 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you disapprove of brainfawk? < 1333952203 571093 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1333952206 70199 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i a haskell people < 1333952207 887002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my multitude of sins < 1333952216 968293 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x, we see so many brainfuck derivatives < 1333952222 30340 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and brainfuck isn't that weird to begin with < 1333952222 485611 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1333952241 547172 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very vanilla sort of tape machine < 1333952253 64562 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact very similar constructions were developed in early theoretical computer science < 1333952253 566869 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck derivative is just about as unoriginal as you can get, so it has to be pretty spectacular to be any good < 1333952262 812134 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows
< 1333952318 68936 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dimensifuck really was kinda neat. Shame I never did anything with it. < 1333952319 580637 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is space, 1 in n/l < 1333952320 854464 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1333952356 801498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1333952440 434566 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1333952446 325842 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that takes in octal < 1333952462 956116 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "one" < 1333952468 659773 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me, the IO is really uninteresting. < 1333952473 875091 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deriviative < 1333952478 967528 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1333952507 326153 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :renaming bf instructions is probably the worst thing you can do, i/o is second-worst, additional commands third-worst? < 1333952523 871146 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe swap those < 1333952527 48357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put them all together as < 1333952532 518107 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst thing package bundle < 1333952536 451103 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't do this" < 1333952548 831175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, the only thing slightly interesting about Brainfuck is that it's a Turing tarpit that can just about input and output all valid strings, that happens to be relatively popular. < 1333952567 167683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just about" < 1333952570 192531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they contain no 0s < 1333952571 437616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about! < 1333952578 954350 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1333952584 80987 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean < 1333952598 634428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, if you use 16-bit Brainfuck and -1 on EOF it actually works. < 1333952599 342442 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1333952605 386493 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that's certainly not normal) < 1333952629 530865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum BF, EOF = -1 is vaguely sensible < 1333952656 833976 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :white people are evil < 1333952674 494746 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all the Brainfuck I've written breaks on bignum BF. Also >8-bit BF. < 1333952687 697237 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: [citation needed] < 1333952717 915663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you just have that gut feeling < 1333952718 76413 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this conversation is headed places < 1333952721 843615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure know I'm evil! < 1333952797 200004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm white and i can confirm this < 1333952808 93877 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [pics or gtfo] < 1333952811 904730 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1333952813 497798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also a sinner though so i'm not sure how much that counts for < 1333952898 31284 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Have you done anything that is haraam? < 1333952905 631080 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you consumed pork or drunk alcohol? < 1333952919 534549 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got drunk with a pig, does that count < 1333952934 843349 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Heck, I did both at the same time earlier today. < 1333952936 474621 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make the prophet cry! < 1333952949 820597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've consumed pork < 1333952951 423679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no alcohol < 1333952972 822607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would do it again, for pig-meat is glorious. < 1333952980 698168 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've consumed mouthwash < 1333952984 801025 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has alcohol in it right < 1333952993 584243 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Depends on the mouthwash. < 1333952999 395770 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mine does < 1333953003 616204 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listerine? < 1333953016 432464 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to non-alcholic mouthwash < 1333953032 75742 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I heard of studies that showed a slight increase in mouth cancer < 1333953035 839384 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's listerine but I don't check the labels I just wash my mouth < 1333953036 617244 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :In those who used alcoholic mouthwash < 1333953061 454205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have lung cancer < 1333953061 981762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am lung cancer < 1333953069 283780 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you smoke? :( < 1333953102 33234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1333953105 839749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am smoke < 1333953118 476594 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many cigs are you per day < 1333953125 656896 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :20? 30? < 1333953126 291664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1333953639 875742 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, school = smoke? < 1333954263 924326 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mew < 1333954282 82512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mew < 1333954313 448353 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's now plain old brainfuck in php < 1333954362 436321 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody want to collaborate on a new esoteric lang? < 1333954396 156005 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what new language < 1333954402 113300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new one? < 1333954422 593395 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333954441 804743 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your idea Sato0x < 1333954475 721810 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a racist programming language < 1333954489 279705 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay! That's racist! < 1333954497 237220 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1333954501 692330 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38++ # hero < 1333954505 461071 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there are already plenty of those. < 1333954510 144887 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are? < 1333954512 270005 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every language that assumes its input is ASCII. < 1333954514 421878 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, kmc? < 1333954515 903902 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ < 1333954522 456782 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :,, < 1333954542 776639 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=racist+programming+language < 1333954667 635082 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there aren't < 1333954669 419238 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1333954679 604792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's clever, but the use of color to discriminate between browsers in both cases is unfortunate; it evokes comparisons with our cultural history of racism and segregation." < 1333954683 981701 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you expect Google to tell you everything? < 1333954685 453290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks Coding Horror, I can always rely on you to be fucking moronic < 1333954695 412467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did u know serving differently styled webpage to IE6 = raciesm? < 1333954708 982449 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1333954721 326644 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a lot of JavaScript recently < 1333954725 222308 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up on anything below IE9 < 1333954726 720105 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :liar < 1333954731 880676 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm serious < 1333954736 576306 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sato hates javascript < 1333954746 948129 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sato only uses it for ajax.. < 1333954750 408453 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/epicvrvs/RiotControl/tree/master/Web/Script/Module < 1333954750 646792 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other stuff < 1333954753 6388 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's sato < 1333954774 518058 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1333954778 536687 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a project where pretty much the entire web content is generated by JavaScript :| < 1333954785 206312 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :No regular HTML at all < 1333954790 703104 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except to load one JavaScritp file < 1333954795 83692 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool < 1333954808 255769 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might wonder "why would you ever do that" < 1333954818 157579 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's becoming more common < 1333954820 448010 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a centralised web interface for local server instances people run < 1333954838 41335 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JavaScript then queries their local servers to get JSON data < 1333954842 489149 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't wonder that < 1333954848 761163 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a philosophy that your web service should be a backend with a public API, and the web frontend is just one of many frontends people could write < 1333954857 104103 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I want to modify the "soft logic" of the application I just modify the JavaScript < 1333954858 16244 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so of course the service has no business generating HTML < 1333954861 383925 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the changes go live everywhere < 1333954869 441967 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather you write some HTML and CSS and Javascript as a separate project < 1333954878 278735 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that JS talks to the backend's API and generates views locally < 1333954879 887687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a philosophy that lynx should be a viable browser. < 1333954883 441716 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unluckily this also resulted in stuff like I making a mistake in some file without testing it properly < 1333954888 222700 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then going to sleep < 1333954892 777168 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are Javascript MVC libraries for this purpose < 1333954895 523991 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And waking up to hundreds of people screaming at me < 1333954900 997880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want it secure, you could use SSH < 1333954901 669472 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a philosophy that yeah.. < 1333954902 774241 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I broke all instances of the application around the world < 1333954909 910924 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shh < 1333954912 919821 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :By modifying the centralised script data < 1333954919 613588 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to unpack my MCV into a construction yard. < 1333954943 543439 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a browser is something that views documents < 1333954948 337169 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I made it a web GUI so people could also expose their service to the world if they wanted to, which went as planned < 1333954964 346503 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox and chrome are not just browsers; they're virtual machines for running arbitrary applications which happen to be delivered over HTTP < 1333954971 529400 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx is still a fine browser < 1333954985 595294 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fact that it does not run arbitrary applications delivered over HTTP might be considered one of its strengths < 1333954987 128168 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1333954997 524650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, true < 1333955001 609283 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firebug <3 < 1333955014 826847 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inspect Element <3 < 1333955018 505061 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript/CSS/HTML/HTTP is such a pitiful application stack. < 1333955018 665968 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc I somewhat realised that when I looked at that SQLite manager for Firefox < 1333955030 956045 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pretty weird < 1333955032 721951 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an entire application running through the Firefox toolkit < 1333955034 712996 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty weird < 1333955038 1067 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it uses CSS internally < 1333955045 786148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL < 1333955049 330505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I agree Javascript/CSS/HTML/HTTP is a stupid application stack you can make something better surely. < 1333955054 677958 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand unix sockets and X11 and GTK is also a weird stack if you look at it right < 1333955054 861734 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: Firefox *itself* is written that way. < 1333955059 857502 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1333955065 480397 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's written mostly in unsafe languages < 1333955065 985102 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc ya hehe < 1333955069 10062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No argument. < 1333955077 426971 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stacks people use tend to be weird < 1333955086 382151 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333955095 440811 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 is at *least* as bad as the Javascript/CSS/HTML/HTTP stack. < 1333955098 530973 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL is one thing, but you can also use a telnet application for remote service; SSH if you need secure and a few other functions too. But, there is also gopher, FTP, IRC, use whatever work in this case < 1333955148 119597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what the only non-weird stack is < 1333955148 637887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1333955151 149934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkmate assholes < 1333955158 421913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck all of you, why haven't you implemented @ yet < 1333955161 396162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1333955178 771066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i have to compile haskell-src-exts < 1333955180 282167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is awful < 1333955194 571600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why haven't *you* implemented @ yet? I don't know how and probably everyone else also probably doesn't know how < 1333955215 906987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm lazy < 1333955234 290395 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you guys writing? < 1333955248 362853 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Do you mean me or elliott? < 1333955295 155507 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me rephrase, what are you guys talking about? < 1333955302 11191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1333955307 266074 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Read it! < 1333955312 622484 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that < 1333955316 779203 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1333955322 846090 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the language called "@"? " < 1333955340 788017 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that esoteric language derived from something in diablo < 1333955352 396935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: the language can be called @ < 1333955354 401205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a language < 1333955366 947541 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it is a computer < 1333955417 362810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1333955431 748403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it is a punctuation mark < 1333955447 483175 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1333955453 134575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is a vaporware OS < 1333955457 612312 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a language < 1333955461 819728 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like < 1333955462 349465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in @lang, which is a vaporware language < 1333955469 311934 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1333955472 488804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only neither @ nor @lang are their actual names, they're just placeholders < 1333955482 664132 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1333955490 316836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know a few details about @, and none about @lang (except that it's defined to be perfect) < 1333955500 900751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not! < 1333955505 566084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *vapourware < 1333955536 87369 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?//// < 1333955536 247814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1333955538 725453 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????????/ < 1333955908 103250 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is @ the same thing as @lang? < 1333955919 737682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no, they're an OS and language respectively < 1333955930 491133 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program to draw a triangle on a DVI document, but, how to make draw polygon, ellipse, line of thickness, path of line segments of specified thickness such that they will be joined together properly, ... < 1333955933 679846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the two are quite linked < 1333955941 432770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like UNIX and C in terms of their relationship < 1333955942 315705 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just might manage to do it < 1333955993 381553 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iff we lock him in a hotel room and don't let him out until he has a beta. < 1333956021 825096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: And a computer < 1333956031 539123 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a rushed @ might not be the actual @ < 1333956048 34404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: much closer < 1333956048 194908 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like he'll rush. < 1333956051 114868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, @lang is just @ < 1333956052 491389 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might end up with some mes like javascript < 1333956055 695511 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'll be there for years. < 1333956056 651656 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1333956062 151171 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^mess < 1333956062 323901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distinction is nothing, it's meaningless < 1333956071 27896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm lying there to further the myth < 1333956079 929957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're properly separate in my in-revision @ design < 1333956088 164755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think @ was self-contradictory, so I started ripping it apart) < 1333956089 408347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I've got a new esolang idea < 1333956096 130423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolang that… is a parody of itself < 1333956100 259693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is its only reason for existence < 1333956102 659316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it parodies /that/ too < 1333956118 521943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to create it
< 1333956123 818285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't actually need a spec < 1333956158 244571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is mentioning it on the joke language list sufficient? < 1333956169 449361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1333956173 779574 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :designing the parody lang sounds similar to writing a quine < 1333956183 689306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to actually be a parody of itself, not just be defined to be a parody of itself < 1333956185 102540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: agreed < 1333956203 116016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: btw, I don't have any particular problems being locked in a hotel room with a computer < 1333956234 248365 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I don't know how a quine would be written in this context but OK < 1333956245 595094 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: its just a metaphor < 1333956269 994655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes it does seem like a quine to me too once you explain a bit < 1333956298 677940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you write a quine in itself? < 1333956307 510893 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... ok.. you begin with a language-writing language < 1333956314 62707 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And no internet. So you might actually be productive. :P < 1333956319 492327 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you start making statements in it < 1333956320 827270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1333956322 290318 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1333956327 667520 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uhh.. < 1333956330 382216 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck < 1333956342 350626 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parody could be written in brainfuck < 1333956367 239514 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no im totally missing the point < 1333956630 769406 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333956744 354953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not know where you are, but you have the correct date and time (in UTC), and you can see outside, but cannot identify any landmarks, then can you figure out your location? < 1333956755 685219 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeat < 1333956758 718628 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1333956771 907145 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge < 1333956777 281957 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1333956805 184361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone takes you in a dark plane to somewhere so that you cannot know where you are, will they steal your watch too? < 1333956837 461842 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1333956953 300710 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-113.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333957013 820057 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-240.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1333957116 537223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333957166 348855 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then, how will you determine your location? < 1333957178 205068 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't.. < 1333957845 646755 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333958183 833203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1333958184 218207 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 9 08:56:51 < 1333958230 118301 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#time < 1333958232 146933 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!time < 1333958238 81556 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1time < 1333958240 587391 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3time < 1333958242 398262 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2time < 1333958245 228844 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1333958245 407456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Sato0x is Mon Apr 09 03:57:23 2012 < 1333958469 956140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think you'd need to know which way north was < 1333958481 90136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could, if you were good enough at estimating which way the sun was < 1333958511 317507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at local midday, your shadow points exactly north or south; the UTC time then lets you calculate longitude, and the length and direction of the shadow latitude < 1333958683 664724 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see http://exploit-exercises.com/ ? < 1333958705 260809 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether it's any good. Downloading a VM is kind of a big up-front cost. < 1333958795 11797 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is @ a DHT? < 1333958797 40935 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be. < 1333958856 506934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, git's interface for merges really sucks < 1333958870 805344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1333958882 461119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only solution I've found for a complex merge is to make one stab at it, commit, then rebase fixes onto it until it compiles and merges… < 1333958915 80269 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in JOIN :#esoteric < 1333958926 458638 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:NSQX/CPUFuck.cpp < 1333958948 307292 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program which will convert any text into a brainfuck program which will display the text < 1333958962 2580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen hello < 1333958968 609157 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​56 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.>++. [136] < 1333958991 501426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen This is much more efficient on longer strings than your method. < 1333958994 371126 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​557 +++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++>+++++++<<<<-]>------.++++++++++++++++++++.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<++++.>++.------------------.>>-.<.<<.++.+++.>++.>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+..>>+.<--.>.----.<+++++++++++.<<++.>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------.<+.<++++++++.>>.<---.<+.-.<-------------.--.>>++++++.>.<+.+.--.<-----.+++++.-------.>+.>.<+.<+.<----.>++++++.>>.<+++++.<+.>----.---. < 1333959009 31472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although far from perfect, it seems < 1333959019 727171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, !bf_txtgen is actually kind of rubbish :) < 1333959025 87960 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aw. I thought you said it was. < 1333959032 746265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can implement a DHT with it. < 1333959044 792998 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: !bf_txtgen is Kolmogorovically optimal, right?! < 1333959076 190624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSQX: do you have a local copy of nbf2c? because we need to delete the mislicensed copy on the wiki < 1333959129 854804 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have a local copy. < 1333959133 714332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1333959307 781595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes it is as I thought; but, is it necessary to know which way is north, or can that be determined by the passing of the time? And what if you do not even have the UTC time of day (but you do know which month it is)? < 1333959357 871030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I guess you could work out north by averaging the position of sunset and sunrise and correcting for the earth's rotation < 1333959363 826928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be quite slow, though < 1333959382 733611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think without knowing north, you'd have to observe both a sunset and a sunrise to calculate your location < 1333959404 331253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I thought that might help < 1333959405 883403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing UTC time of day, you can't calculate longitude to any accuracy; latitude is still possible < 1333959443 307317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah git, why do you have to end up repeatedly conflicting just because I tried to edit an older patch? < 1333959531 588002 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1333959535 719799 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the moon help? < 1333959544 410192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think the problem is that I edited a correction into the wrong patch originally, and it moved to the correct patch via a series of conflicts when I tried to make another change to that patch < 1333959590 488273 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, cool < 1333959630 291725 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a lot of levels < 1333959639 290728 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one bug in my CPUFuck.cpp program: An extra '.' is added at the end < 1333959643 289667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since the moon moves faster) < 1333959643 556042 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like much of the code is online < 1333959669 381282 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSQX: Then fix it < 1333959766 950728 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1333959798 752900 :NSQX!3bb6b806@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.182.184.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333959855 806285 :NSQX!3bb6b806@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.182.184.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://brainfu.ck/++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++..----.------------------------------------------------------.-----------..+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++.-----------------.++++++++.+++++.--------.+++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1333959889 826640 :NSQX!3bb6b806@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.182.184.6 PART :#esoteric < 1333959986 591272 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333960020 332398 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! Google Chrome could not find brainfu.ck < 1333960021 188078 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1333960046 631944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nsqx bye nsqx < 1333960062 900959 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in JOIN :#esoteric < 1333960066 726316 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960074 800347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, .ck doesn't take registrations at second-level < 1333960079 343788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so brainfu.ck can't be registered < 1333960123 168569 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone, would you prefer !bf_textgen or http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:NSQX/CPUFuck.cpp? < 1333960151 27829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if it is does not necessarily mean there is an HTTP service there, and even if there is HTTP service doesn't necessarily mean it is on port 80, and even if it does have HTTP service on port 80 does not necessarily mean it isn't temporarily down < 1333960151 227222 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use either < 1333960250 604918 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PART :#esoteric < 1333960254 69478 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in JOIN :#esoteric < 1333960259 859414 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PART :#esoteric < 1333960265 179375 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in JOIN :#esoteric < 1333960267 516882 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye nsqx hi nsqx bye nsqx hi nsqx < 1333960300 697849 :NSQX!~CMEG@triband-mum-59.182.184.6.mtnl.net.in PART :#esoteric < 1333960309 910637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye nsqx < 1333960315 675790 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with that guy < 1333960437 988918 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you haven't said hi to him frequently enough < 1333960452 633209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1333960464 712426 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960477 284626 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi < 1333960495 394832 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yay", NSQX made a program similar to a script I included with the PSOX stuff < 1333960498 738378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yipideedoo < 1333960502 159637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960511 556543 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird < 1333960512 305939 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, !bf_txtgen produces more compact code. < 1333960588 857371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird < 1333960597 938206 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :825) Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird < 1333960613 634915 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: What were your requirements? < 1333960623 281288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict that's what < 1333960631 971844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what WERE they < 1333960632 132301 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were also requirements! < 1333960642 746379 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo hits the nail right on the head < 1333960659 629313 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1333960668 417806 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1333960672 46460 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960672 964299 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have strict requirements too. < 1333960707 596305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what WERE THEY!!!! < 1333960720 419549 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly what they were < 1333960740 779851 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcstar> i didnt know haskell supported C# and F# < 1333960746 128008 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only on ubuntu freebsd. < 1333960782 65076 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with abrupt conversation derailments, particularly when the new subject is stupid < 1333960818 547267 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the hi is the new subject? < 1333960850 575019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960858 760231 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi "ais523" < 1333960862 974925 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960870 948310 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960871 826175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :scarf < 1333960885 668087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333960992 906608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1333961002 158083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can we go back to the old kind of his < 1333961004 351479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are getting old < 1333961011 258539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill swear of hi forever < 1333961013 414426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*offe < 1333961021 808368 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his what? < 1333961048 934982 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll try but it's hard when everyone else is saying hi all the time! < 1333961050 525975 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq I stand corrected, a Mono dev just told me their new generational GC is only used in mobile Mono applications right now < 1333961057 793138 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not used by default in regualr Mono yet < 1333961061 892763 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :swhat < 1333961065 735353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: plural of hi < 1333961069 830983 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :swhat: hi < 1333961075 348676 :swhat!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, hi < 1333961079 458892 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC:TNR < 1333961089 187065 :swhat!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :R? < 1333961100 682882 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235039209.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: Wychodzi < 1333961103 370807 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean G. < 1333961116 185397 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe The Nomad.Reader. < 1333961140 145368 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: will you swear off hi forever < 1333961149 203630 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-113.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes the kola borehole is awesome
< 1333961165 492678 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :-( < 1333961182 348104 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1333961227 361614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a question not a command; you can hi all you want < 1333961414 568715 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best garbage collection technology around right now, in your opinion? < 1333961436 391753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask RocketJSquirrel :p < 1333961440 87805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote memory management < 1333961440 729138 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :For desktop/server stuff < 1333961443 790582 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :405) You have no idea how desperately I want to avoid being a GC guy :P Every year I go to ISMM and Doug Lea gives me a bizarrely-cheery "Hello!" and I'm like "awww shit I'm in memory management" < 1333961444 456341 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not embedded < 1333961450 349663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel isn't embedded < 1333961510 830842 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say collecting your own garbage < 1333961548 384306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, everybody knows the additional cognitive burden of tracking every data dependency through your program is worth it -- because then it's faster. oh wait! manual memory management isn't actually faster < 1333961559 355765 :cheater__!~cheater@p4FD0E5E1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333961559 705361 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it wasn't for embedded systems < 1333961571 46044 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'd say manual memory management is /sometimes/ faster, depending on what you're doing < 1333961600 199258 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what might be interesting would be compile-time GC < 1333961613 73930 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it statically analyzes the program to work out where all the free()s have to go < 1333961619 563246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see region inference < 1333961621 20925 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously wouldn't always be possible, but for many programs it would be < 1333961658 234402 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mono-project.com/Generational_GC < 1333961679 786944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gggggggggc a thing < 1333961704 202065 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of GC, apparently Go's GC is far too conservative < 1333961733 254625 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends up sometimes not collecting anything just because there's a pointer-like bit pattern in memory sometimes < 1333961744 671824 :cheater_!~cheater@p4FD0F009.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1333961752 904403 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(people have accused 1.0f as being a common culprit) < 1333961851 763296 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so odd, does it have no information about the types of objects stored? < 1333961865 856270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Go has the operational semantics of C < 1333961872 50762 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GC doesn't, no, it's just a conservative GC < 1333961873 27820 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds awful < 1333961893 230751 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently, unlike Boehm, it doesn't refuse to allocate stuff at addresses that already happen to share a bit-pattern with something in memory < 1333961897 548719 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a good way to keep down false positives) < 1333961903 643946 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although obviously not a perfect one) < 1333961981 18904 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-113.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: And has a neat effect of reducing your address space further. < 1333961990 799037 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1333962032 846130 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the sorts of programs that use conservative GCs tend to also be the sorts of programs where running out of address space mean you're also close to running out of actual physical memory < 1333962092 623340 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :What major implementations of interpreters/VMs use reference counting? < 1333962096 879431 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPython, who else? < 1333962171 675953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl < 1333962176 813057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have GCs for cycles iirc < 1333962182 183041 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perl doesn't < 1333962188 564243 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycles are documented as not being collected < 1333962217 597737 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the occasional library that actually uses them typically has a ->delete method and asks you to call it when you're done, and the method breaks the cycle and leaves the object to be GCed normally < 1333962243 962102 :Sato0x!45744c6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.76.110 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1333962269 988689 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi is addictive :-( < 1333962282 950736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1333962348 815076 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: x86 instruction encoding looks complicated. < 1333962362 447289 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1333962369 65669 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I learn how it works? < 1333962378 208127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about it < 1333962380 876917 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I saw a good-looking article on it, but I lost it. < 1333962646 885924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a program in C which encodes some x86 instructions < 1333962674 665994 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did some class on that in school once < 1333962720 734589 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_everything_ here (in #esoteric) is more complicated than x86 anyway < 1333962751 345582 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well it wasn't a class it was just a sort of topic < 1333962753 102074 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF encoding is way simpler than x86. < 1333962825 764002 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more programs are encoded in x86 than BF :P < 1333962832 309125 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : _everything_ here (in #esoteric) is more complicated than x86 anyway < 1333962832 938417 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1333962839 182182 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few more < 1333962859 549744 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you repeatedly say things that are completely, obviously incorrect? < 1333962877 154615 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it could be that i am actually overestimating everyones intelligence here because i don't understand what it is they do < 1333962903 757073 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're also falsely equating "complexity" and "intelligence" < 1333962914 212632 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good esolang has a small definition with rich emergent behavior < 1333962923 622365 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 has huge piles of arbitrary / historical complexity < 1333962937 83996 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about C++? < 1333962942 346185 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you would count that as a bad esolang. < 1333962952 719780 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am amused that anyone who can keep up with esolangs would be worried about x86 encoding < 1333962967 981304 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 encoding keeps me up at night. < 1333962976 871810 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Technically that is true. < 1333962981 563992 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise < 1333962989 285587 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would probably be awake anyway :) < 1333962996 222886 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise. < 1333963024 969411 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16 < edwardk> likewise < 1333963025 730062 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not compute < 1333963034 322291 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNCHRONICITY???? < 1333963070 449423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've ruined edwardk's day by making him spend 5 hours updating packages just so I could make a package work on Hugs to prove a point. < 1333963087 851347 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should read Raymond Smullyan. < 1333963090 569815 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i guess what i mean is that out of all possible topics here, x86 encoding is surely one of the most trivial < 1333963092 434859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of quality you can expect when you allow me to talk to you! < 1333963117 945024 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's the point? < 1333963118 681453 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, but that's just a completely false statement < 1333963122 948822 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't require any mind-bending to grasp it < 1333963132 48224 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Do you know how x86 encoding works? < 1333963133 672979 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1333963139 550782 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how you can use the word "surely" when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about < 1333963154 5972 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall it has something like 3bits for 1 thing 3 bits for another thing then another 2 bits < 1333963157 208979 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 8bit < 1333963160 395205 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not having any idea what you're talking about makes it very easy to use the word "surely". :-) < 1333963163 983562 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not trying to be mean here < 1333963166 394068 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably gets more complex as it goes into 64bits < 1333963170 567088 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just honestly baffled by the way you communicate < 1333963172 63884 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 bits for 1 thing 3 bits for another and 2 bits there. < 1333963175 749773 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds right. < 1333963182 741852 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 modes are 8 bits and 64 bits? < 1333963200 332556 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, it's a continuum with 8 and 64 at the extremes. < 1333963203 695760 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know all the details :-s < 1333963207 27884 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I'm using about 38 bits. < 1333963213 336800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: What's the point? < 1333963222 78539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That the fast impl of reflection is not totally unportable. < 1333963224 288436 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, no, you don't know *any* of the details < 1333963235 151532 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know *negative* details because the things you think you know are wrong < 1333963253 717612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: To itidus20, "surely" means "I'm posturing this absurd statement to try and be seen as somebody with insight and/or as trolling" < 1333963260 825856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH. < 1333963278 642215 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A great work of art uses positive space and negative space. < 1333963289 19040 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 knows negative details. < 1333963315 734502 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this statement is insightful and/or trolling < 1333963653 949496 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remain surprised. < 1333963849 45370 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im trolling < 1333963908 190086 :swhat!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1333964041 453058 :cheater__!~cheater@p4FD0E5E1.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1333964209 553486 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-176-164.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1333964264 529678 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-233-217.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1333964504 403866 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-176-164.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1333964602 8183 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-176-164.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1333964967 466532 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1333965504 849711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1333965534 341499 :Case1!~Dr._Danee@adsl-74-178-237-46.jax.bellsouth.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1333966108 427005 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333966211 213493 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333966213 458234 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1333967427 497589 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE88BF6.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333967470 444947 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0E5E1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333968128 832903 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1333968292 844026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333968592 383058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1333968608 641928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye elliott < 1333969379 714504 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ways of the world ^ < 1333971986 561940 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-180.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333972011 112711 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-113.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1333973546 610139 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1333973555 842445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333974382 450624 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-180.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333974389 592168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-186.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333975608 811139 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1333977926 43795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; < 1333978129 506016 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what the world needs? an Achron/Adanaxis crossover < 1333978183 695640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you keep talking < 1333978284 869837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: tell me about linux < 1333978289 925624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checkout < 1333978295 799287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mediawiki < 1333978302 149689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ < 1333978304 94550 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those aren't as mindbreaking < 1333978308 368760 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from perhaps C++ < 1333978354 127229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: i don't care just keep the words < 1333978426 915429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: more < 1333978428 445562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: words < 1333978442 816020 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you probably need to go to bed again :) < 1333978477 824402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: no it's not that < 1333978548 320935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: tell me about the decimalisation of the UK currency system < 1333978560 517801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i actually want to know this) < 1333978583 779512 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a whole lot… < 1333978629 613255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1333978637 591812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading it on wikipedia spoils the magic < 1333978656 498800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like did everyone have to change their currency one day < 1333978666 88376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a big day of noneconomics because nobody could do anything but currency-change < 1333978814 111048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx1EwdbmrR4 awesome < 1333978898 412157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Biggest rip off in the 20th century. Change a thousand year old system which worked fine to please the foreigners and rip off the British public at the same time. Welcome to modern Britain!" < 1333979039 353720 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The USA has non-decimal units of measure. Something we are mocked for by all other nations on a near-constant basis. Be glad your country managed to get off non-decimal currency ;) < 1333979110 867656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Well yeah but it's MOSTLY decimal. < 1333979123 944058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dollars and cents make sense (HAR HAR HAR), you just have weird historical nicknames. < 1333979153 984557 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wut ... < 1333979161 319615 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our currency is decimal in every sense ... < 1333979168 610031 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1333979169 211549 :Case1!~Dr._Danee@adsl-98-82-7-13.jax.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333979169 647960 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about units of MEASURE. < 1333979181 811657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhh < 1333979187 547197 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nicknames are for coins, not amounts of money, btw. < 1333979188 936799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally misread your original line, sorry :P < 1333979211 73294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Yeah, your units are stupid. But we have the same problems at a smaller scale. < 1333979220 943414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feet and inches are how we measure height, and distances are in miles. < 1333979235 94553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully we've more-or-less exterminated the old weights through force. < 1333979302 215702 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any logic in conversion from inches to feet or feet to miles? < 1333979316 721079 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just some random value < 1333979381 700023 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Each length was derived from some real-world amount that was vaguely useful at the time, but we've lost most of the intermediary units that made things add up sensibly. < 1333979425 86221 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1333979426 322050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 ft = 0.000189393939 mi < 1333979426 800317 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a mile is 8 furlongs, and a furlong is 220 yards. < 1333979436 967308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 foot = 1/3 yards, though. < 1333979441 552346 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :furlong? < 1333979444 21633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 mile = 1760 yards. < 1333979450 208259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense in base 12 or summat. < 1333979459 121513 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Exactly. < 1333981256 460745 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does farenhait scale have any sensible origin? < 1333981359 856514 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-2.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1333981360 262902 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-2.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1333981360 423504 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1333981447 417935 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1333981537 902568 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1333981584 414317 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : also does farenhait scale have any sensible origin? < 1333981592 530865 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Freezing point of brine, body temperature of a horse. < 1333981619 421529 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not, contrary to popular misconception, the body temperature of Farenheit with a fever. < 1333981625 317980 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Person, not scale) < 1333981685 711962 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freezing point of brine was chosen because it was the lowest temperature that was both used in practical life and relatively easy to measure. The body temperature of a horse was chosen because our society is seriously horses all the way down. < 1333983265 498006 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:50:41] furlong? < 1333983273 630568 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a unit of distance used by furries < 1333983287 418903 :qfr!~kafir@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :A furlong is the height of an average yiff < 1333983322 778438 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235039209.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1333983432 912160 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: HOLY CRAP YIFFS ARE F***ING (no pun intended) HUGE < 1333983739 897801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the good ones are. < 1333983948 498527 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time fizzie < 1333983949 217042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for fizzie is Mon Apr 9 18:05:48 2012 < 1333985320 101746 :Case1!~Dr._Danee@adsl-98-82-7-13.jax.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1333985545 881527 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More depressing than those "This is a once-in-a-lifetime calendar event" things: < 1333985572 590654 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing one that was literally taken from last year, with the current year slapped on it, such that it doesn't even match this year's calendar. < 1333985606 409387 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=424793280870274&set=p.424793280870274&type=1&theater < 1333986119 639058 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bitc-lang.org/pipermail/bitc-dev/2012-April/003315.html < 1333986203 142901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen, but Deewiant++ anyway < 1333986373 484319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/QRTYk < 1333986405 586110 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.226.20 NICK :MDude < 1333986420 221160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I wanted a screenshot of that page you just linked < 1333986444 593577 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot I linked < 1333986711 966060 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Do you like rotating mazes? Do you like the other idea? | I do not like rotating mazes. I do not like them Mr. Z. I do not like them in a tree. I do not like them in the fog, I do not like them on a log. I do not like rot' maze, you see, I prefer my lab'rinth's normalcy. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1333986801 140091 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno why this Dr. Seuss guy thinks he's so hot. I could do that shit. < 1333986822 891947 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*throws sympathetic apostrophes EVERYWHERE* < 1333987225 279847 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1333987652 531270 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1333988821 431418 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently bitc had "transcode C++ code without re-architecting at the same time." as a goal < 1333988846 531325 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like SVN's "let's fix CVS" idea < 1333989312 821276 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333989447 958753 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333989851 442963 :Mortchek!~danny@pool-108-28-43-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333990148 532230 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1333990232 879577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1333990786 166365 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: häivyn < 1333990790 51863 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1333991131 880584 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-234.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333991158 466665 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-186.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1333991619 400384 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333991801 842514 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333991826 92964 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1333991932 737918 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1333991993 553860 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333992481 358402 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333992571 603205 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1333992751 165945 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1333992757 428792 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1333994492 790233 :david_werecat!~david_wer@nat-vlan10.algonquincollege.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1333994586 33699 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1333994678 929727 :david_werecat!~david_wer@nat-vlan10.algonquincollege.com PART :#esoteric < 1333994783 904786 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1333995202 865910 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-2.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1333995203 240912 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-2.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1333995203 401149 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1333995342 841584 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333995783 204076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1333996612 787896 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or other finns, can i annoy you? < 1333996703 265384 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1333996713 241847 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????? < 1333996719 854652 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme get some judgements from you! < 1333996726 701712 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i suck at finnish :( < 1333996733 448334 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why i want it from you < 1333996756 123932 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you descriptionists make me sick < 1333997018 244896 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1333997127 440780 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: punaisen ostin auto == good, right? < 1333997147 146225 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1333997152 852856 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :auton** < 1333997154 21301 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1333997164 770812 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's weird but correct. < 1333997186 977996 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i only want to know if its weird or not weird or just shit < 1333997189 252491 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok hows this < 1333997190 26377 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of a context where it isn't weird really < 1333997213 178161 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostin sen punaisen auto < 1333997230 24484 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(put the sen wherever it might need to go) < 1333997230 547402 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's completely wrong < 1333997239 934648 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way < 1333997250 194287 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the way that you dropped the n again < 1333997256 231386 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P < 1333997261 498392 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1333997269 17448 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :punaisen ostin sen auton < 1333997299 730821 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it can't really mean i bought the red car < 1333997305 513361 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thank you < 1333997342 705279 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it's "punaisena", then it's something specific and okay, but i guess that's not part of the game) < 1333997433 535462 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats punaisena?? < 1333997451 764864 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the essive case < 1333997457 454394 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essive? < 1333997461 413326 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it means i bought the red version of the car < 1333997466 222564 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's this thing we have < 1333997469 743974 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1333997472 582649 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :means like, "as red" < 1333997589 145950 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :punaisena ostin auton < 1333997622 609719 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would interpret that "while i was being red, i bought a car". i think. < 1333997640 902141 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha ok < 1333997680 941472 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostin punaisen sen auton // ostin sen auton punaisen < 1333997693 328317 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostin sen punaisen auton is idiomatic < 1333997700 743135 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiomatic? < 1333997702 546945 :Sams69!~keny@41.223.119.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1333997713 139373 :Sams69!~keny@41.223.119.129 PART :#esoteric < 1333997716 537865 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is somewhat silly and poetic, ut makes sense, the first one makes no sense < 1333997717 46015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... Finnish is really an amazingly complex language. < 1333997734 744910 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1333997735 816061 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1333997741 177366 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"idiomatic?"? < 1333997747 657515 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by idiomatic < 1333997754 310774 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostin punaisena sen auton // ostin sen auton punaisena < 1333997755 314151 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you'd actually say < 1333997764 170911 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, so you mean colloquiual < 1333997771 71480 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 50 < 1333997776 964083 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhoavioikselta sijailemä liukulaveamme totultani tyyppyä hiensistänne säveltaattomamme kahlitsetullume läisemmassa nahkeistavillä ikistisemme suoriipa funkeimpieni tarkoissanne piisinteilta sollasiallan punoitavasta merkimilleen määnansa poikastuma suudeksensa harmimpiansa kömpeämme ahjomamme vieraa < 1333997777 186971 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiomatic means non-literal, like "kick the bucket" = "die" < 1333997784 434158 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well colluquial then < 1333997785 745960 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1333997794 253530 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so how about those two with punaisena now < 1333997805 306006 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are okay < 1333997810 955320 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thank you < 1333997824 193455 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter perhaps slightly better < 1333997859 146903 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1333997867 387168 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my b key isn't working properly :( < 1333997885 478408 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thank you oklopol :) < 1333997904 109444 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've discovered that essive case marking is a small-clause secondary predicate head! < 1333997960 309314 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you basing that on? < 1333998003 174027 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i have much more than a guess at what that means < 1333998026 998429 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the cases where "red" is clearly modifying the verb seem to prohibit extraction of the adjective, but when it's essive, it's allowed, and since the meaning of essive is something like "as", it's reasonable to think that it's a secondary predicate outside of the NP "sen auton" < 1333998048 131781 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i should ask real quick < 1333998052 610357 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostin sen punaisena auton < 1333998053 335768 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that was what i thought you based it on, so perhaps i do understand what you mean < 1333998066 551172 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, sen and auto are close friends. < 1333998070 634521 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good < 1333998075 741700 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's an adjective there ofc < 1333998077 796928 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that suggests that punaisena is not modifying the NP < 1333998080 933954 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-etween < 1333998086 117402 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between < 1333998087 325830 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1333998097 718211 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :np = noun ...? < 1333998111 57651 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phrase < 1333998114 574799 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1333998144 216640 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "sen ... auto" means some specific car, and you can stick modifiers in-between. < 1333998157 120301 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but punaisena is not a modifier, but kind of its own little subsentence < 1333998157 728206 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1333998166 442646 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of, yeah < 1333998171 527671 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have these in english too < 1333998193 233190 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they describe a state of some argument of a predicate _during_ the time the predicate holds < 1333998206 287639 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "I bought the car new" means when i bought the car, the car was new < 1333998218 956425 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "I bought the car nude" means when i bought the car, I was nude < 1333998289 378618 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, i would say new and nude are in essive there < 1333998362 835722 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact when i was 10 or something, when i saw english nouns out of context, i would often picture them being in the essive case, because it was funny. < 1333998429 546897 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nude, i bought the car < 1333998454 883895 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems correct to me < 1333998461 459705 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"new, i bought the car" seems completely wrong < 1333998498 220623 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because cars are new and people are nude < 1333998512 963209 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah its bad in english too < 1333998521 946394 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the end both are fine for me < 1333998545 575104 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i would be a bit surprised if someone actually said "nude, i bought the car" < 1333998557 5206 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish? < 1333998562 74005 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1333998563 461022 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english :D < 1333998568 448071 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no its fine in english < 1333998580 61525 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some specific information packaging, but its fine < 1333998648 912855 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like such a surprising piece of information that i think it would be formulated differently in most contexts < 1333998656 430509 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1333998662 117597 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i see the story now < 1333998691 390407 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if this question is stupid butis it possible to convert any DFA with true and false end states to regular expression < 1333998705 289011 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are true and false states? < 1333998719 785488 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :en states < 1333998730 816280 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pretty much any definition of language acceptance with DFA, they will give the same class of languages < 1333998731 528999 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*end < 1333998733 590389 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regular languages < 1333998754 512429 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are exactly what regular expressions with union, concatenation and star give you < 1333998842 251675 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow afaik, the conversion is not really feasible in practise, i believe it's at most exponential blowup, and this can be reached < 1333998964 169934 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you care about that sort of thing < 1333999025 124932 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this one theorem where you get like double factorial + some exponentials for state blow-up, and if anything i'm proud of its utter uselessness. < 1333999051 955844 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :still proves the classes equal < 1333999147 954391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1333999244 287520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Do you like rotating mazes? Do you like the other idea? | I do not like rotating mazes. I do not like them Mr. Z. I do not like them in a tree. I do not like them in the fog, I do not like them on a log. I do not like rot' maze, you see, I prefer my lab'rinth's normalcy. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1333999261 565079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that space looked out of place) < 1333999279 151602 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the first one a zzo quote? < 1333999285 167136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333999309 301722 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the best < 1333999310 454567 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1333999317 151849 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't i be as best < 1333999373 469365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i declare today's logs Too Damn Long To Read. < 1333999380 548383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Client Quit < 1333999391 452308 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to convert following DFA to regular expression: there are five states named A,B,C,true and false. Execution starts at state A. If input is 1 it goes throught the states in the order A,B,C,A,B,C... one state change per 1 and if input is 0 it is otherwise the same, but order is A,C,B,A,C,B... instead. When input is 2 and DFA is in state A it goes to state True, but if it is in state B or C it goes to state False. I haven't < 1333999412 416511 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you are *actually converting something to something*? < 1333999419 489447 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333999421 233461 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really my territory < 1333999426 592322 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more into saying it's obvious how to do it < 1333999450 948616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1333999509 778437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, for me the conversion is usually quite simple if I draw up the graph of the state machine in question. Can't really help you when you express it in text like that though. < 1333999535 506657 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can work it out with just states A,B,true and false where it is ([01][01])* < 1333999536 276863 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: can you draw the graph? you left out some info which i don't feel like fishing out of you < 1333999556 978702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the other window also died. something tells me this isn't sustainable. < 1333999585 433148 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I am currently on my cellphone < 1333999591 918168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it just freenode or does it affect other irc networks as well? < 1333999617 813788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it has nothing to do with freenode, it's my connection to the nvg linux server < 1333999622 585185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1333999629 559724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so is nvg <-> freenode okay? < 1333999629 888364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i get cut off again i'll try webchat < 1333999649 781659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I assume not since you quit? (Or don't you use screen or such?) < 1333999650 474408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know < 1333999662 26454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't use screen < 1333999673 880881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well doing that would certainly help debugging this :P < 1333999753 312061 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: on a second glance, i suppose you gave all the necessary info < 1333999754 673973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should use screen so you won't know about it. more peaceful that way. < 1333999767 85372 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme see if i get i < 1333999767 861194 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1333999774 641824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, I was just trying to help < 1333999796 936584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's more psychological than technical at this point < 1333999803 60260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1333999877 937577 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: when you go to state true or false, you can't continue anymore? < 1333999890 775363 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333999893 175181 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all words are among (0 + 1)^*2 < 1333999904 561344 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1333999927 393113 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the thing before 2 needs to be 0 modulo 3, where 0 is predecessor and 1 is successor < 1333999950 232673 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see the regexp directly as i'm too terrified that oerjan sees it before me < 1333999980 570118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1333999990 591531 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1333999997 987560 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay better < 1334000136 362141 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1X1X1X + 0X0X0X)^* where X = (01 + 10)^*, perhaps < 1334000144 858150 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that's too complicated < 1334000180 50043 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1X1X1X)^* + (0X0X0X)^* < 1334000202 123983 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure but the idea is that you can remove any 01 and 10, they won't change the outcome < 1334000216 569955 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that but it didn't work with 1100111 < 1334000228 476691 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have a unary word and you just check if its length is 0 mod 3 < 1334000229 370253 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1334000236 11704 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1334000242 705405 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 1X11 < 1334000285 400697 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*110001111 < 1334000298 35669 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1334000316 765314 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite the noodle scratcher < 1334000325 846414 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just solve the language equation directly < 1334000333 479472 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this should really be solvable directly < 1334000453 910856 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could solve it and see if you get an idea ofc < 1334000462 903363 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really feel like doing that in my head right now < 1334000530 918428 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how? < 1334000537 698074 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334000537 858375 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naughtygirlfinder.com amuses me (don't click [View Profile] links unless you want to give that insipidly stupid site money though) < 1334000580 909610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically: Searching for someone when you haven't searched for someone in the last 60 days (tracked by cookie) ALWAYS says that they're a member with pictures < 1334000594 682413 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should now find out if it affects other than my nvg connection < 1334000602 192991 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we know what the problem actually means, i'd have L_0, L_1 and L_2, where L_i adds i to the current number < 1334000639 422144 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, there's no actual pictures of anyone on that site. < 1334000728 715423 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :L_0 = empty + PL_2 + ML_1 for instance, depending on which letter it starts with < 1334000747 755038 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: did you get a ping from me? < 1334000757 780469 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not. < 1334000782 12941 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking crap, i cannot even ping to check if i'm still connected? < 1334000796 497680 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping < 1334000799 858509 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1334000800 19932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1334000802 533214 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong! < 1334000812 639053 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess... < 1334000843 20516 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess i can @ping lambdabot in private < 1334000849 422704 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? EgoBot < 1334000852 600505 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. < 1334001009 68404 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it might be that webchat won't disconnect but only because it is more resilient against bad connections... < 1334001020 173440 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235039209.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1334001356 912363 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1334001468 90783 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is freaking out because he cannot think of any passive way of distinguishing losing connection from y'all not talking
< 1334001544 428681 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't your irc program tell you if you disconnect from the server? < 1334001557 392278 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-150-217.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1334001573 483099 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one time previously webchat disconnected, i only found out when i tried to say something < 1334002243 935961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Try PING ME and if it is lost connection you won't get a response < 1334002274 741326 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the point was to find a way to check without disturbing others < 1334002291 557057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan_: No, send PING ME to the server < 1334002321 609889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what I sometimes do to check that. < 1334002329 13421 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how to do that in webchat < 1334002345 286461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use a client in which you do know how to do that < 1334002367 556036 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the _other_ point was that it should be _passive_, i.e. i shouldn't need to constantly do something other than looking < 1334002380 941675 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for irssi, the time in the status bar works < 1334002420 746309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the computer send a PING command automatically, then < 1334002439 969746 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes oerjan, just write a script that constantly pings the serveer. < 1334002443 16981 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*server < 1334002453 809900 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then write a man page for it so others can enjoy it too < 1334002477 654921 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 NICK :oerjan__ < 1334002493 602913 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which computer, is the question. i could do it in irssi probably, but that one is _most_ likely to disconnect and fail... < 1334002504 239557 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no NICK :oerjan < 1334002511 225026 :oerjan__!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 NICK :oerjan_ < 1334002524 764591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1334002561 530910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my connection has been disturbingly stable since i joined both clients. < 1334002703 692754 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1334002732 157274 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1334002829 723961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What has science come to? < 1334002858 641998 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1334002864 684001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science is far from perfect, but it is the best we have. < 1334002890 810376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, soon we should have a picture of a black hole < 1334002977 598957 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is black, how can you have a picture? What you can do is to calculate how it interferes with surrounding things and then see if the observations match < 1334002979 356616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've found planets outside the solar system, used muons to scan the vesuvius crater... < 1334002985 167747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1334003085 56773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a pretty usable cyberspace, apart from the neural connections part < 1334003117 879828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftl is as stuck as ever < 1334003970 522155 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coroutines look pretty interesting < 1334004717 561652 :Case1!~Dr._Danee@adsl-98-82-8-197.jax.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1334004987 817059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1334005167 340421 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.207 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1334005829 391762 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334005831 158758 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1334005842 154275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Sato0x < 1334005845 733148 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1334005880 871491 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How're you? < 1334006289 958691 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1334006674 740960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found an article titled "How to Reject Any Scientific Manuscript" < 1334006680 520300 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1334006871 196523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1334007090 860073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334007103 851307 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1334007132 245280 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334009634 944174 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nortti < 1334010163 855528 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db434ba.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1334011284 939126 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1334011708 721524 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334011711 194270 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1334011722 516529 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I publish an esolang? < 1334011743 301053 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Create a page on the wiki < 1334011749 224110 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ook < 1334011775 8425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all you need to do. But all information posted directly on the wiki must be public domain < 1334011788 550911 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1334011804 722551 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1334011807 910310 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mine esoteric? < 1334011824 864238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I know? < 1334011828 301636 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing < 1334011837 871696 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's kind of like brainfuck < 1334011869 381687 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it uses < to move left and > to move right, -/+ as (in/de)crementers < 1334012920 443801 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.226.20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1334012992 974904 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1334012995 446645 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1334013125 678781 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't a brickbraining customary at this juncture? < 1334013150 205553 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1334013204 204388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure Phantom_Hoover will handle that when he returns < 1334013223 208852 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1334013268 680274 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1334013384 712970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sato0x: Phantom_Hoover does _not_ like brainfuck derivatives. < 1334013417 525152 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis not a brainfuck deriviative < 1334013422 498981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1334013428 935065 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to use those < 1334013466 807171 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :them seeming most proper to me: > right arrow < left arrow < 1334013470 241201 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ addition < 1334013473 67990 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- subtraction < 1334013502 957211 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is different from brainfuck < 1334013509 3287 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gridding < 1334013627 938439 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :define dimensions at the beginning with x,y: < 1334013639 246418 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ up v down > right < left < 1334013662 288730 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ reflect over x < 1334013664 56351 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| reflect over y < 1334013674 667368 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :% reflect over origin < 1334013705 385390 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. output the certain element < 1334013714 714628 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# output the grid < 1334013936 346316 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1334013944 998663 :Sato0x!d18c33bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.140.51.187 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1334014150 529176 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1334014509 842308 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1334015011 971090 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which black hole? < 1334015198 990640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :either the one in the center of our galaxy, or a much larger one in a galaxy in our local supercluster which i don't remember the name of < 1334015212 206205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on which research group get first < 1334015401 920376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :M87, it was < 1334015418 379673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/07/were_going_to_see_a_black_hole.php < 1334015445 301077 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the galaxy with jedis? < 1334015461 992850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say < 1334015470 996106 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1334015620 75761 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah. well the one at the center of the milky way is going to light up pretty soon < 1334015681 381596 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db434ba.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about jedi..it was pleasent to hear they named the first planet with two suns they found tatooine < 1334015764 691301 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db434ba.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the home planet of luke skywalker as you know for sure < 1334015796 904124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 QUIT :Quit: Imakuni? is absent today < 1334015799 484325 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1334015906 268281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: the other one is already lit up :)