00:00:44 NSQX: do you at least understand that you must not make edits with a bot unless you have admin permission to, or you will get blocked again? 00:00:48 and this applies to *everybody*, not just you 00:03:08 i hate it when people make a big herping point about phrases like "ATM machine" being 'redundant' 00:03:28 like how many of us actually think "automated teller machine" when we see ATM? 00:04:10 kmc: "ATM machine" is really annoying, though 00:04:24 ATM is just a word and sometimes the phrase "ATM machine" sounds more natural in context 00:04:25 in fact, I get annoyed by following an acronym with a word that starts with the same letter as the last letter of the acronym 00:04:28 even if it's a different word 00:04:41 if you purge english of all redundancies everywhere, you'll end up with horrible stilted prose that pleases grammarians only 00:05:16 it's not a redundancy, though, it's an inaccuracy 00:05:20 (i am writing an article and want to say "PNG graphics" but can't because mouthbreathing dorks will whine about it) 00:05:22 an ATM machine would be a machine that made or serviced ATMs 00:05:29 an ATM is a type of machine 00:05:34 kmc: "PNG-format graphics" 00:05:46 ais523: that only applies if ATM = automated teller machine 00:05:51 ais523, so i have to add an extra word to a sentence that was already perfectly good 00:05:51 elliott: well, yes 00:05:52 it doesn't = 00:05:52 fuck that 00:06:09 since it's not in common usage to treat it as its expanded form, it's not 00:09:56 "PNG-format graphics" would be correct, I think 00:09:59 -!- NSQX has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:10:02 PNG alone wouldn't be 00:10:46 where do people get this idea of "correct" which is divorced from the very purpose of language 00:11:22 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:11:33 pretty neat graphics 00:11:50 kmc: "correct" as in its meaning is clear to other people 00:11:52 anyway if someone complains i will tell them PNG really stands for "PNG's Not GIF" 00:12:03 ais523, you think the phrase "PNG graphics" is less clear than "PNG-format graphics"? 00:12:05 yes 00:12:07 anyone who doesn't know what "PNG graphics" means is being disingenuous 00:12:12 ... 00:12:21 "ATM machine" actually has a different meaning from "ATM", as I explained earlier 00:12:23 but i don't know why kmc would listen to ais523 about this :) 00:12:30 no it doesn't 00:12:42 that's a common sort of construction 00:12:58 a lamprey eel is a type of eel 00:13:02 it's not like an eel made out of tiny eels 00:13:16 an atm machine is a type of machine 00:13:35 kmc: a red eel is also a type of eel 00:13:39 a red eel eel isn't, it's just meaningless 00:13:42 I don't know what kind of lamprey eels you've seen. 00:13:50 AutomatedTellerMachineMachineFactoryFactoryServer 00:13:54 But the ones I have were definitely made out of tiny eels. 00:15:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:28 let's make up arbitrary rules about language so we can smugly "correct" other people and feel smart 00:15:55 thou shalt not split infinitives 00:16:10 splitting an infinitive indicates that you weren't beaten enough in school 00:16:22 and therefore that your parents were too poor to afford a school with high quality beatings 00:16:31 and therefore that you are of Low Class 00:17:11 hah! i shall endeavor to boldly and rebelliously split my infinites whenever ponder what preposition to end my sentences with 00:17:17 oerjan++ 00:18:14 that wasn't meant to have that many _accidental_ misspellings. 00:18:32 * oerjan kicks poor muphry across the room 00:18:33 ais523: which of these is more helpful: "You've got RAS." "You've got RAS syndrome." -- the latter, because acronyms are inherently ambiguous, and nearby context works to clarify and make reading easier and smoother 00:18:50 there is no more natural way to supply that context; it would be an arbitrary, ugly construction solely for avoiding a silly prescriptivist rule :) 00:18:51 elliott: the latter, "RAS syndrome" is the correct name 00:19:02 but it's Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome! 00:19:02 C O R R E C T 00:19:03 just like brainfuck starts with a lower case letter 00:19:06 that would be a syndrome where you get a syndrome 00:19:28 the syndrome syndrome syndrome 00:19:29 or Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym abbreviates to INTERCAL 00:19:33 actually B.R.A.I.N.F.U.C.K. is an acronym 00:19:40 you are Incorrectâ„¢ 00:20:02 I wish I owned the trademark on "you are incorrect". 00:20:24 ais523: anyway, what about PIN number? 00:20:34 "PIN number" is also a helpful disambiguator 00:20:36 I think PIN number is correct due to strength of usage 00:20:37 for the exact same reasons 00:20:48 ok, so your argument is just that "ATM machine" is uncommon? 00:20:50 and ATM machine isn't because I've heard anyone seriously say ATM machine 00:20:52 yes 00:20:57 *I've never heard 00:21:01 except as an example of RAS syndrome 00:21:18 http://www.atmmachine.com/ http://atmequipment.com/ ("Leading ATM Machine Retailer") 00:21:28 ATMMMR 00:21:30 "An automatic teller machine or ATM allows a bank customer to conduct their banking transactions from almost every other ATM machine in the world." http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventions/a/atm.htm 00:21:32 erm, oops 00:21:47 http://www.atmtellermachine.com/ "ATM Machine [...]" 00:22:00 here it is in a news headline: 00:22:04 http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-03/vadodara/31280444_1_sbi-atm-bharuch-india-s-atm "SBI ATM machine stolen from Bharuch" 00:22:10 elliott: the two *machine.com links don't count because they're blatant SEO attempts 00:22:19 (from "The Times of India (TOI) is an Indian English-language daily newspaper. According to Audit Bureau of Circulations, it has the largest circulation among all English-language newspapers in the world, across all formats (broadsheet, tabloid, compact, Berliner and online).") 00:22:29 elliott: india doesn't count. they have the issac newton college, q.e.d. 00:22:32 I'll accept the others 00:22:50 elliott: would you say "SEO optimization" is a correct synonym of SEO, btw? if not, why not? 00:23:05 what's "correct" and why should anyone care 00:23:12 correct is irrelevant 00:23:15 it's perfectly understandable 00:23:34 and I almost certainly wouldn't notice it if reading an article containing it 00:23:37 > 40 + 40 x 0 + 1 00:23:38 81 00:23:45 Calling "ATM machine" a machine that makes ATMs seems perfectly acceptable to me in jest 00:23:50 But not in seriousness 00:23:57 ais523: http://boingboing.net/2011/11/02/snake-in-atm-machine.html (yeah, boing boing is scraping the barrel, but still, it's evidence of colloquial usage) 00:24:00 elliott: I'd interpret it as definitely different from SEO, it just makes no sense 00:24:10 or, well, optimizing your SEO 00:24:21 what about using single words rather than acronyms? 00:24:25 Are you people still talking about automatics ATM teller machines? 00:24:26 or phrases? 00:24:33 can I say "single word word" rather than "single word"? 00:24:35 it only works with acronyms, because they "hide" the word inside 00:24:44 "word word" is redundant because word = word 00:24:50 "ATM machine" is not because ATM =/= * machine 00:24:54 How relevant is Stephen Fry's Language thing? 00:24:54 elliott: "don't do not"? 00:25:12 "Gold ATM machine at Westfield: meet the first customer" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8610819/Gold-ATM-machine-at-Westfield-meet-the-first-customer.html 00:25:21 "Mad Snake Inside ATM Machine" http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikep13/mad-snake-in-atm-machine-3t1w 00:25:32 "Lego NXT ATM Machine with Change Maker" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Z-ym0k89Q 00:25:36 shachaf, i seem to have trolled ais523 by accident 00:25:41 to boldly troll 00:25:44 by the way, tab = 8 00:25:48 ais523: if PIN number is OK because of usage, then ATM machine is unquestionably too 00:26:12 kmc: You should title your autobiography "The Accidental Troll" 00:26:13 nonsense, a tab is an unspecified amount of horizontal space indicating a logical nesting level 00:26:45 kmc: don't 00:26:47 stop 00:26:49 /part the channel immediately 00:26:52 -!- augur has joined. 00:26:53 come back in five minutes 00:26:55 elliott: it's OK, I was self-parodying 00:26:55 trust me 00:27:01 ais523: you can't be trusted to self-parody! 00:27:24 oh, someone in another channel brought up "KFC chicken" 00:27:25 When I press the Tab key on my keyboard, my editor inserts U+00038 00:27:35 which I think is definitely correct for referring to the chicken they sell 00:27:37 ais523: that's fine even if you're stupid and anal 00:27:39 KFC serves things that aren't chicken too! 00:27:39 and cannot refer to the company 00:27:40 yeah 00:27:47 whereas KFC always refers to the company, not to their products 00:27:49 since Kentucky Fried Chicken is a company, and they sell chicken, which is Kentucky Fried Chicken chicken 00:27:51 well company names are proper nouns 00:27:52 ais523: not true 00:27:55 KFCc 00:27:59 "I went to get some KFC" 00:28:04 if someone called me "Keegan person" i would probably be... confused 00:28:05 that means "I went to get some unspecified products from KFC" 00:28:05 people actually say that? ouch 00:28:10 sure 00:28:26 but that's not because it ends with chicken, that's just colloquial usage 00:28:32 well, OK 00:28:34 kmc: can I call you that? 00:28:40 "a McDonalds"? "a Burger King"? 00:28:52 ais523: "some" works better than "a", I think 00:28:55 kmc: is your name actually Keegan? if not, I see why you'd be confused 00:28:58 and it might work better for KFC in general because it's a short acronym 00:29:44 protip: if you go to KFC, do not order then Unspecified Product 00:29:51 the* 00:30:14 * shachaf has never gone to "KFC". 00:30:27 Finally, shachaf discovers the optimally condescending statement. 00:30:41 strangely, neither have I, which is surprising given that it's the physically nearest major fast food chain to my house 00:30:47 perhaps I should some day, probably Friday 00:30:54 kmc: hey that's just fud, the unspecified product is guaranteed to be from genuine vertebrates 00:30:57 OK, "some day, probably Friday" is hilarious 00:31:10 "Perhaps I'll see her again some day ... Sunday, perhaps" 00:31:20 elliott: oh, I didn't mean this Friday, I meant an unspecified Friday 00:31:30 that's even funnier 00:31:35 elliott: That sentence doesn't even contain a mention of how I"m morally superior to you because I don't eat the flesh of previous-conscious entities! 00:31:46 shachaf: But that one does! 00:31:50 * oerjan thinks he ate at a KFC once 00:31:51 True. 00:32:04 shachaf: Did you know KFC sell products that aren't made from dead animal? 00:32:10 Some of them are *alive*. 00:32:17 oerjan: the fact that you're not sure probably means that it wasn't a particularly memorable experience 00:32:19 or bought something, or something like that 00:32:46 ais523: _or_ that it's 16 years ago, if so 00:33:02 oerjan: maybe you ate at KFC the day I was born. 00:33:10 Can I get a "synchronicity"??? 00:33:21 elliott: sadly it would have been in the spring. 00:33:32 Well, summer is basically spring. 00:33:39 hm... 00:33:39 Plus with relativity... 00:34:18 oerjan: elliott is suggesting that you are a relative of his. 00:34:30 Heyyy, I was tryin'a be subtle. 00:35:04 O KAY 00:35:52 monqy: Are you a relative of elliott's? 00:35:59 According to Darwin, monqy is my ancestor. 00:36:05 Or maybe my cousin. 00:36:07 hi monqy 00:36:11 monqy is everybody's cousin. 00:36:29 hi shachaf 00:36:59 134605th cousin, 40902 times removed 00:37:34 don't remove monqy :( 00:37:43 That's an unlikely number of removals. 00:37:52 Also a somewhat-unlikely degree. 00:38:18 I don't think humans get more than about 4000th, and probably much less. 00:38:21 RocketJSquirrel: for a human and a monkey? 00:38:25 oerjan: RocketJSquirrel is calling you unlikely. 00:38:26 Oh, fair point. 00:38:37 I RETRACT MY STATEMENTS. 00:38:45 For I am a flying squirrel, and hence an even more distant cousin. 00:38:52 okay 00:39:07 if evolution is true then why does monqy still exist HMMMMMM??? 00:39:14 checkmate, atheists 00:39:32 I always wanted to prove a point using a type-checker. 00:39:37 And then say "type-checkmate" 00:39:38 If evolution is real, then how are there people stupid enough to believe in Intelligent Design? 00:39:39 CHECKMATE 00:40:00 kmc: monqy is actually a squirrel. 00:40:05 * oerjan hits kmc with the holy saucepan of smyrna ===\__/ 00:40:12 hello 00:40:14 i am back 00:40:34 because historically, assigning agency to natural processes is more adaptive than the alternative of running around screaming in ignorant terror of the world 00:40:35 RocketJSquirrel: darn good argument 00:40:42 Apparently the alcohol laws in Pennsylvania are such that beer cannot be sold in quantities of less than 24 cans. 00:41:10 in PA all booze is sold by the state 00:41:19 oerjan: Can you kick Phantom_Hoover for being away for the entire duration of that tense situation? 00:41:31 oh but maybe not for beer 00:41:31 elliott: yes, i can. 00:42:08 oerjan: Kick me instead! 00:42:20 If I spam this channel you'd kick me, right? 00:42:31 oerjan: Do so, please. 00:42:34 Can we just say I spammed this channel? 00:42:41 i recall memories of using my op powers for jokes. ...bad memories. 00:42:54 No, it's okay. I told you to do it, so you can trust me. 00:43:05 oerjan: Kick me! 00:43:11 oerjan: you can remember /that/ but not KFC? 00:43:30 `addquote i recall memories of using my op powers for jokes. ...bad memories. oerjan: you can remember /that/ but not KFC? 00:43:33 838) i recall memories of using my op powers for jokes. ...bad memories. oerjan: you can remember /that/ but not KFC? 00:43:34 KFC: the most memorable thing. 00:43:47 ais523: yes, surprisingly my memory for a week ago is better than 16 years ago 00:44:08 I love how NSQX doesn't seem to realise that if you need to autogenerate the spec of a language you can just put the generating script up and call it the spec. 00:44:21 Phantom_Hoover: He was trying to generate a stub table so he could fill it in. 00:44:25 oerjan: Also, can you kick shachaf so he shuts up about getting kicked? 00:44:39 yes, i can. 00:45:18 Can you stop taking questions beginning with "can you" literally? 00:45:53 elliott: if you put a "please" on there, he could no longer misinterpret you like that 00:46:12 oerjan: Also, can you kick shachaf so he shuts up about getting kicked, please? 00:46:16 ais523: Thx 00:46:19 "Perhaps I'll see her again some day ... Sunday, perhaps" 00:46:21 ais523: I think he might kick you now though. 00:46:25 Can you say Lyttle Lytton? 00:46:31 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I can. 00:46:40 elliott: people stopped kicking me after a while, my reaction to being kicked is scary 00:46:52 Phantom_Hoover: OK you're right, I accidentally came up with a spectacular entry. 00:47:02 ais523: Oh man. Tell us or we'll organise a demonstration. 00:47:04 -!- MDude has joined. 00:47:15 elliott: just disappear for a while and make them think that they've mortally offended me 00:47:23 ais523: hey now you're making me _curious_ 00:47:25 it doesn't work if you tell people what it is, though 00:47:30 ais523: wow, peace for that long? 00:47:37 we won't hear a peep about ATM machines or tab widths 00:47:40 elliott: isn't that what /ignore is for? 00:47:40 oerjan: i demand science. 00:47:55 not _that_ curious. 00:48:01 ais523: /ignore is useless for people who don't monologue because you see people's reactions 00:48:04 :p 00:48:18 (which means it is excellently effective against certain monologuers.) 00:48:22 solution ignore the whole channel 00:48:33 monqy: there's even a command for that, /part 00:48:39 -!- elliott has left ("really? awesome"). 00:48:40 although it causes the channel to ignore you too 00:49:03 -!- elliott has joined. 00:49:14 oerjan: actually if you just do /msg chanserv clear, that'll preemptively answer all possible requests for kicking 00:49:25 and also punish the terminal idlers. 00:49:41 fancy. 00:49:52 elliott: it requires a couple more params than that 00:50:05 it does? 00:50:06 I did it once 00:50:10 well, more than once 00:50:22 the channel, at least 00:50:29 /cs clear #esoteric users 00:50:35 phew, I remembered to escape the / correctly 00:50:41 ais523: you accidentally added an extra / 00:50:45 >_< 00:51:04 00:48:40: although it causes the channel to ignore you too 00:51:12 ais523: not in channels without the fascist +n mode 00:51:22 * ais523 wonders how many channels don't have +n 00:51:37 at least one 00:51:53 we got -c, surely we can get -n here too? then the channel would have *no modes* 00:52:32 elliott: doesn't it have +b? or does it have an empty banlist? 00:52:49 wow, the banlist's actually longer than I rememeber 00:52:50 well, an empty /mode output 00:53:04 you can probably wipe that bot list 00:53:05 erm 00:53:06 ban list 00:53:24 oh wait, alvur was in herej ust days ago 00:53:27 *here just 00:53:29 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 00:53:30 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:53:30 -!- hagb4rd2 has changed nick to hagb4rd. 00:53:33 * #esoteric Banlist: Sun Apr 1 11:21:38 *!*alvur@95.57.97.* oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no 00:53:34 * #esoteric Banlist: Fri Mar 30 21:17:26 *!*alvur@178.89.139.* oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no 00:53:35 oerjan: they came back? 00:53:41 yes 00:53:47 whos' that 00:53:47 who is alvur? 00:53:50 and what were they doing? 00:53:51 ais523: a troll 00:54:00 they came in here pretending to be christian, calling us magicians and heretics 00:54:13 do you think they were aware that the channel wasn't about that? 00:54:17 then they used a certain racial slur beginning with the letter "n" and it took like half an hour before anyone bothered to kick him 00:54:18 (they could be and still do it, if they were a troll) 00:54:41 ais523: well, they later revealed they're actually an atheist in /msg to nortti, who copied that here. 00:54:51 but I don't know, it could go either way. 00:54:57 that doesn't actually answer the question, but it's still interesting 00:55:04 and why would they PM nortti about that? 00:55:13 or were they trolling #christian too or something? 00:55:16 because norrti was attempting to engage them in debate in /msg 00:55:17 atheist sex maniacs 00:55:27 don't ask me why, I have no adequate answer 00:55:35 is there a #christian in addition to #jesus 00:55:37 counter-trolling is the most likely answer, I think 00:55:37 and suspect there is none 00:55:42 monqy: I don't know, I just made it up 00:55:52 ais523: no, he argued with him in #esoteric first and pasted the full /msg log afterwards 00:56:05 it was fairly standard atheist argumentation, so it'd have to be a really subtle countertroll :P 00:56:06 apparently there is a #christian 00:56:12 monqy: are you in #christian now 00:56:16 no 00:56:19 I asked chanserv 00:56:37 Sgeo: do you know anything about #christian 00:57:13 Um 00:57:21 that's 00:57:24 the worst possible relpy you could give 00:57:26 just for future reference 00:57:31 *reply 00:57:34 I joined it just now, luke-jr is there 00:57:39 now you can never leave 00:57:45 There's almost no one there for what it's wroth 00:58:07 that luke-jr popped up indirectly in another place on the internet recently, now i'm devoting a small portion of my mind to disliking them 00:59:20 who is luke-jr? 00:59:22 elliott, a place bitcoin related, by any chance? 00:59:35 ais523, extremist sedevacantist Catholic in #jesus 00:59:52 Sgeo: no, though i've seen him pop up there too. 00:59:53 iirc 00:59:58 I'm not entirely sure what sedevacantist means; and I'm not sure I want to find out either 01:00:03 isn't luke-jr one of the "saner" ones in #jesus 01:00:07 talk about overton window 01:00:21 elliott, um, there are worse, but I don't tally him in the "sane" people 01:00:34 "Sedevacantism (derived from the Latin words meaning "empty chair" [1]) is the position, held by a minority of Traditionalist Catholics,[2][3] that the present occupant of the papal see is not truly Pope and that, for lack of a valid Pope, the see has been vacant since the death of either Pope Pius XII in 1958 or Pope John XXIII in 1963. Some sedevacantists claim that the vacancy goes back further." 01:00:38 wow 01:00:53 brainproxy ^peter^ and ... one other, I think 01:01:03 elliott: I'm trying to work out why that would matter atm 01:01:14 which probably implies I don't know enough about Christianity 01:01:17 ais523: does theology normally matter? 01:01:27 popes can declare all sorts of stuff and you're meant to like them 01:01:29 does it have something to do with the pope being infallible 01:01:33 the pope's infallible right 01:01:37 I don't know my stuff 01:01:45 monqy, only on certain specific issues and when he says so, iirc 01:01:53 (Erm, that's an intersection and) 01:02:02 the infallibility is older than that though? 01:02:10 hmm, if the pope is infallible, does that mean you can determine whether someone's the pope by whether they make a mistake? 01:02:22 new popes aren't infallible because they aren't popes 01:02:29 ais523: no, they explicitly declare when they're being infallible 01:02:41 "Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] when in his official capacity he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible wi 01:02:41 ll be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state that the pope cannot sin in his own personal life nor that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies." 01:02:58 hmm, does this mean I can prove I'm not the pope by declaring myself infallible and then lying? 01:03:27 * ais523 wonders why he would ever need to prove himself not the pope 01:03:42 it has to be on a matter of dogma 01:03:45 so "lying" is pretty hard to define 01:04:03 I could contradict myself? 01:04:05 try contradicting another infallible dogma 01:04:30 ais523: have you even read the Bible? 01:04:47 elliott: many parts of it, yes 01:04:53 Sgeo: "This user favors absolute monarchy." "This user wants a philosopher king." "This user believes the separation of church and state is heresy." 01:04:56 I don't think I've read every word in the whole thing, though 01:04:58 Sgeo: agree w/ yr not tallying 01:05:58 philosopher king? itidus21? 01:06:00 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:06:11 luke-jr 01:15:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:16:49 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:35:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:37:02 -!- kmc has joined. 01:43:16 -!- augur has joined. 01:44:10 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:44:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:13:10 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:15:23 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:15:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:30:18 @time 02:30:18 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 03:30:12 02:30:19 oh luke-jr.. he ops in a channel i frequent 02:38:40 monqy: theres several meanings of philosopher.. i fall more into the eccentric bum sense of the word 02:56:24 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:02:34 @time elliott 03:02:35 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 04:02:28 03:03:02 elliott: 😪 03:03:04 :-( 03:03:11 My IRC client is breaking my non-BMP Unicode. 03:03:27 That was U+1F62A 03:04:11 shachaf: What? 03:04:16 shachaf: Unicode has 65536 characters. 03:04:17 goto sleep; 03:04:19 you mean Unicode Big Endian? 03:04:21 Oh, right. 03:04:21 You're thinking of -- yes. 03:04:37 Most operating systems don't support that. 03:05:13 kmc: Did you know it's called Unicode Big Endian because it's bigger than standard Unicode? 03:05:22 but which end is bigger?!?!? 03:05:40 itidus21 are you like diogenes 03:05:50 kmc: No, "endian" is the technical term for the space in which the characters are addressed. 03:05:57 diogenes was an eccentric bum 03:06:01 he was perhaps the original troll of all history 03:06:07 kmc: diogenes was somewhere in the intersection of the venn diagram 03:06:10 There's also Unicode Little Endian, which is only 12 bits, for embedded devices. 03:06:31 i don't actually do the thinking and analyzing side of philosophy 03:06:36 they don't need embedded devices in china right 03:06:48 it's all egg rolls and conical paper hats 03:07:10 -!- elly has left. 03:07:23 wow.. elly left 03:07:30 YES 03:07:31 what does this mean? 03:07:36 means ur stoned 03:07:48 she didn't even quit 03:08:07 kmc: My understanding is that the Chinese just rip off people's esoteric RISC CPU designs all day.[1] 03:08:08 ==References== 03:08:13 1. http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Oerjan#Who.27s_the_anal-retentive_one.3F 03:08:23 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 03:08:30 Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of use for details. 03:08:34 Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization. 03:08:43 i wish i could find that picture of a bunch of japanese businessmen on the subway and one sad lookin white dude in a conical hat 03:09:11 i think it used to be at the top of ED's page for "Weeaboo" 03:10:15 "It has been decided that the contents of this wiki should be public domain." 03:10:23 too bad there's no such thing 03:10:49 or rather, you can decide it *should* be public domain, but the only way to make it happen is to die and wait 100 years 03:11:38 kmc: see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Copyrights 03:11:47 we use CC0 these days, previously Creative Commons' previous public domain dedication 03:11:59 it has a rather comprehensive license to use for jurisdictions where you can't release works into the public domain 03:12:14 very good 03:12:29 To quote elliott: "(BTW, I always wondered how the Asian and Chinese people do any work with computers, given that the ASCII character set doesn't even include any characters in their alphabet...)" 03:12:30 kmc: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WPL5zaKzjqc/TU-E_8WY6hI/AAAAAAAAADw/lAmCit-uHEM/s1600/100.JPG 03:12:34 i've been wondering if i should license my code as CC0, or some other very permissive license 03:12:36 many apologies for the delay 03:12:40 shachaf: You removed the quote marks! 03:12:41 The Asian *and* Chinese. 03:12:41 Wait, no, you didn't. 03:12:48 You just used a colon as your quote mark. 03:12:50 Devious. Devious. 03:13:07 (full disclosure, the license was less waterproof before i took over, technically... but it was still there) 03:13:10 My treachery knows no bounds. 03:13:18 (since CC's old public domain thing didn't include a license, we had our own pretty lousy one) 03:13:33 kmc: yeah i've been tempted to just license all my (hypothetical) code as CC0 03:13:35 To quote elliott: "Wait... I thought Unicode was still an experimental prototype? Since when does it work in the real world??" 03:13:50 kmc: i tend to just go with BSD or MIT because of peer pressure :'( 03:13:52 it doesn't actually work in the real world 03:13:55 we all have ASCII privilege 03:14:44 ×”×¢×•×œ× ×”×מיתי 03:14:58 shachaf: What is that nonsense? Speak words! 03:15:04 Stupid foreigners. 03:15:16 ×ž×™×œ×™× 03:16:02 ללמוד ×נגלית ו / ×ו לחזור ל×רצך ו / ×ו ללמד ×ותי ×יך הקלד ×ת ×”×¡×ž×œ×™× ×”×לה 03:16:43 רך החמור ×’'לטין 03:17:03 shachaf: What did I just say? 03:17:28 elliott: That last bit seems to say "soft the donkey gelatin" 03:17:47 Maybe it means "the softness of the donkey" or something? 03:18:01 shachaf: No, I typed in "soft donkey gelatin". 03:18:05 I'm glad it translated correctly. 03:18:08 DUDE 03:18:13 LERN2ARTICLE 03:18:23 What was the line before that? 03:19:29 "to learn English and / or to return to your country and / or to teach me type these symbols" 03:19:37 No, wait. 03:19:41 "to learn English and / or to return to your country and / or to teach me how type these symbols" 03:19:50 Good enough! 03:19:52 Translating grammatical errors is hard. :-( 03:20:45 shachaf: כיצד לפתור ×ת הבעיה לפיה דייג ×œ× ×™×›×•×œ לגרש ×ת ×שתו עד המעטפה תכנות מפסיק לחשוב על בעיה ×¢× ×”×§×•×“×™×, שבה ולכן סוג חדש של שכמיות ×¢× ×›×™×¨×•×¤×¨×§×˜×•×¨ ×›× ×”? 03:22:07 shachaf: ???? 03:22:37 elliott: I'm just going to paste that into Google Translate and give you the response. 03:22:42 "How to solve the problem that the fisherman can not divorce his wife to the programming envelope stops to think about a problem with the codes, so that a new type of ponchos with honest chiropractor?" 03:22:50 shachaf: But I already did that! 03:22:53 I want the authentic native translation. 03:23:26 Ask kmc. 03:23:58 kmc knows Hebrew? 03:24:19 kmc: oh yeah.. i didnt explain my link above.. i found the weeaboo pic http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WPL5zaKzjqc/TU-E_8WY6hI/AAAAAAAAADw/lAmCit-uHEM/s1600/100.JPG 03:25:12 elliott: Hmm, it's an interesting task to come up with edge cases that when translated en->he->en naïvely yield a completely different output from the original input. 03:25:16 For example, "to a thing". 03:25:37 "give me to a thing" 03:26:05 shachaf: הנתיחה של×חר המוות המצטיין המ××™×” ×קסיומה ×מידה מו×צת שפך מסוגל ×מפתי חול 03:26:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:26:45 kmc: הנתיחה של×חר המוות המצטיין המ××™×” ×קסיומה ×מידה מו×צת שפך מסוגל ×מפתי חול 03:26:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:27:34 I get the feeling shachaf is ignoring me. 03:27:52 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:28:18 -!- MDude has joined. 03:28:25 The searches I used to find it were, webpage search: encyclopedia dramatica weeaboo, weeaboo.. then image searches: weeaboo, weeaboo subway ,weeaboo sitting ,weeaboo contrast, weeaboo seated 03:28:27 kmc: Do you think shachef forgot that wonderful portrait already? :( 03:28:31 יש לי הרגשה שחף ×ž×ª×¢×œ× ×ליוט. 03:28:53 monqy: LERN2GRAMMER 03:28:59 monqy: the gull ignores me yes 03:29:05 i don't know hebrew 03:29:10 shachaf: How do you pronounce "shachaf"? 03:29:13 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 03:29:17 Is it SHHH-a-TCH-af? 03:29:21 elliott: I pronounce it שחף. 03:29:22 That's how I pronounce it. 03:29:28 That's not helpful. That's literally what you always say. 03:29:32 itidus21, that is not the weeaboo picture 03:29:37 The "ch" isn't a "ch" as in "chair". 03:29:39 it's rather a photo of an anime style robot 03:29:40 kmc: How do you pronounce shachaf? 03:29:43 It's more like "ch" as in "Bach". 03:29:46 elliott, incorrectly 03:29:49 kmc: How don't you pronounce shachaf? 03:29:52 shachaf: No! Fuck! I hate that ch. 03:29:52 correctly 03:30:01 shachaf: The closest thing to my surname in Lojban has one of those in it. 03:30:05 I can't fucking pronounce it. My own name! 03:30:12 :( 03:30:17 elliott: No, the Lojban one is velar; mine is uvular. 03:30:22 kmc: its a guy with a raiden hat in a train sitting across from a businessman.. wires must have crossed somewhere 03:30:31 That means nothing to me! Is it easier to pronounce? 03:30:44 I tried translated "I have a feeling that Shachaf ignores Elliott." but I got "I have a feeling that Eliot ignores gull." 03:30:44 yes that is the picture i would like to see 03:30:56 eliot do not ignore gull 03:31:02 elliott: No, harder (for me). 03:31:08 elliott: Probably easier for a Russian speaker. 03:31:10 maybe you can upload it to imgur? 03:31:12 sorry kmc http://chanarchive.org/content/67_cgl/1993599/1248574696623.jpg 03:31:14 this one 03:31:22 yesss 03:31:23 thank you itidus21 03:31:25 that other one was a cut and paste mistake 03:31:27 >.< 03:31:31 kmc: Did you see my portrait of shachef? http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag 03:31:46 that's a good portrait 03:31:59 monqy: It's hard to explain exactly how it got mistranslated. 03:32:03 shachaf: But is the Shh-a part right? 03:32:06 And the aff part? 03:32:22 monqy: The main part is that you're missing a couple of prepositions. 03:32:48 elliott: The "a" is a simple short sound, as in "cup" or something. 03:32:53 The emphasis is on the first syllable. 03:32:56 i saw it elliott 03:32:58 The "sh" is a "sh", I think. 03:33:06 shuchuf 03:33:12 gull 03:33:15 I'm not sure whether it's a ш or a щ. 03:33:20 I think it's a ш. 03:33:29 Because that looks like ש. 03:33:49 shachaf, where did your ancestors live? 03:34:24 kmc: Quite a lot of places! 03:34:33 Like Finland. A bunch of my ancestors lived in Finland. 03:35:38 shachaf: Let's settle this once and for all: 03:35:58 shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDlrdg/shachef.wav 03:36:24 shachaf shachaf shachaf 03:36:42 hi monqy 03:36:49 hi shachaf 03:37:24 Oh, hey, I can fix that weird artifacting. 03:37:25 woo-ooo woo-ooooo oo-wah-oooo oo-wah-oooo-oo 03:37:32 woo-ooo woo-ooooo oo-wah-oooo oo-wah-oooo-oo 03:37:33 woo-ooo woo-ooooo oo-wah-oooo oo-wah-oooo-oo 03:37:33 shachaf shachaf 03:37:58 ponders whether the verb skinning on an application is a relic of quake-1 terminology 03:38:00 elliott: Is that audio file just silence? 03:38:33 Oh, no, my volume buttons are just broken. 03:39:11 shachaf: Can you play ``FLAC files''? 03:39:22 elliott: You have a very mechanical-sounding voice. 03:39:33 I sure can*! 03:39:34 my name is linus torvalds and i pronounce linux as "linux" 03:39:43 shachaf: What's the *? 03:39:46 I thought it said "hello, this is ..." 03:39:52 shrug 03:40:00 shachaf rug 03:40:01 shrug 03:41:12 shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDlreQ/shachef.flac Now with 100% less artifacts and 0% less mechanism 03:41:25 wow.. 100% less 03:41:41 Artefacts, no? 03:41:48 elliott: ...Is that the same file encoded as FLAC? 03:41:48 artofacts 03:42:26 shachaf: No! 03:42:27 No artofacts. 03:44:00 shachaf: OK, I'm pulling your leg. Here's what my *real* voice sounds like: http://ompldr.org/vZDlreg/shachefraw.flac 03:45:10 * shachaf >>= away for a while. 03:45:18 :( 03:45:24 I think shachaf doesn't like my real voice. 03:46:06 Phantom_Hoover: monqy: You don't judge me, right? 03:47:00 what's jdugeing 03:48:32 monqy: Jdgugeign 03:48:42 it now all makes sense 03:48:46 djaygen 03:49:32 @time 03:49:32 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 04:49:26 03:49:35 Noooo! 03:50:28 elliott, no, you just sound like a normal English pansy. 03:50:37 http://ompldr.org/vZDlsMg bye reddit 03:50:55 Phantom_Hoover: Is that about shachefraw.flac or shachef.flac? 03:50:57 :p 03:51:24 No, it's about all the other voice samples you've posted. 03:52:03 Phantom_Hoover: Uh, there was one more! 03:52:05 Also, I meant "which one". 03:52:12 Oh, you weren't being sarcastic. 03:52:23 shachef.flac is the sound of an English warrior, okay. 03:52:36 Toiletries division. 04:03:13 @time 04:03:13 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 05:03:07 04:09:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:13:55 -!- Urist_McTiktalik has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:16:55 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:17:24 -!- tikfreenode has joined. 04:17:51 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:17:51 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 04:19:47 hi lifthrasiir 04:19:52 hello 04:20:26 temporary connection failure. that's it. 04:25:15 lambdabot!!!!! 04:34:52 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:54:14 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:01:36 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:11:36 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:12:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:23:58 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 05:24:36 elliott: Are you reading this? 05:25:04 elliott: Sometimes I get sick of the "teach by typing examples into lambdabot" method of #haskell pedagogy. 05:25:39 Especially in the cases when you could give one simple explanation but instead give a dozen lines of small lambdabot examples which explain less and which the asker couldn't have come up with anyway. 05:27:23 -!- Frooxius__ has joined. 05:27:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:27:49 -!- Frooxius__ has changed nick to Frooxius. 05:30:59 thats the haskell culture. :-D 05:31:03 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:32:23 sometimes it's appropriate though 05:32:50 Sometimes it is. 05:32:58 I do it myself. 05:33:03 yeah it's not really a language one studies through the normal channels.. such as a teach yourself book 05:33:04 People go overboard, though. 05:33:23 "teach yourself C in 20 minutes" books are total shit 05:33:35 as for books in general, a fair number of people do start with LYAH or RWH 05:33:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:33:47 kmc: I'm pretty sure that if I read one of those books right now, I would know C reasonably well by the time I was done. 05:33:55 itidus21, do you know any haskell? have you tried learning it? 05:34:00 istr that everything you say about haskell is wrong 05:35:01 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:35:42 i need to be allowed some leeway to get my ignorant reflex comments out of my system 05:36:06 ok hm 05:37:53 what this room has taught me is that i never learned about computation from anywhere 05:39:14 I was exposed to assembly, basic, pascal, c, c++, java, html, actionscript .. but still not really learn anything about computation 05:40:11 it's like theres this whole tier of books which teaches people how to use variables and arrange text printing statements in different languages 05:41:15 maybe i just wasn't very resourceful growing up 05:42:11 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:42:25 Nah, almost all books on programming are just really pointlessly simple. 05:43:38 sadder is that computer science degrees at least here seem to only concern themselves with that basic level 05:43:41 it's almost like programming isn't just a matter of knowing n languages! 05:44:44 i'm sure it helps that computers are faster 05:44:51 i'd like to see haskell running on an 8086 05:45:14 itidus21: The lambda calculus existed long before the 8086 did. 05:45:39 So did Lisp. 05:48:08 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:48:15 i don't think lisp performance on 60's mainframes was particularly good compared to the alternatives 05:49:16 I wonder if 8086 ever did anything important. 05:49:29 Took over the world. 05:50:21 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 05:50:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:51:10 my questions are mostly making sense of "why" i have seen so many languages (and btw im a horrible coder in all of them) and why i am clueless about computation 05:51:17 it's almost like programming isn't just a matter of knowing n languages! 05:51:35 have you considered following a reputable school's CS curriculum? 05:51:39 MIT has a ton of materials online 05:51:58 well.. i am also examining it historically 05:52:04 6.004 is a lot of fun 05:52:17 so is 6.828 05:52:18 why when growing up i learned this ridiculous style of programming 05:52:37 and never really quite questioned any of it -- that was 1 mistake 05:52:55 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 05:52:56 it was that childhood naivety that these things were just magically packaged up and did cool stuff 05:53:16 they are 05:53:24 ;_; 05:53:26 i mean depending on what you mean by "magically" 05:54:24 i mean, i didn't care who made them.. i revered the mysterious programming god as a kind of celebrity 05:55:03 like there was vortex out of which programming languages were emerging 05:55:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:56:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:56:13 uh.. also.. i didn't think many programming languages existed.. 05:56:29 i thought that it was such a monumental effort to make each one that only a handful were made 05:56:51 or that everyone all just used this handful of languages 05:57:14 im not sure if i actually thought that 05:59:23 something to take from this is that even if you feel dumb, compared to me you're really quite smart about this stuff 05:59:45 ^for whoever is reading 06:00:03 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:01:23 nothing about qbasic 1.0 ever purported programming to be difficult. i didn't know what i was getting into. although it was obvious the apps i was using were not made with basic 06:03:14 in closing: one of my breakthroughs was.. after hardcoding a call to a function like circle(20,20),5,2 .. i realized i could substitute variables for the position and i was struck by the power of this subtlelty 06:06:15 i don't think i can really express succinctly the fact that i expected to find here people at the same intelligence as me about programming.. theres no other way to put it how much of a shock it is 06:06:56 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 06:07:14 i expected to find guys like NSQX and languages like lolcode 06:08:34 phew 06:08:38 -!- itidus21 has left ("Leaving"). 06:09:32 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:09:54 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 06:10:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:10:35 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 06:12:02 -!- rvchangue has joined. 06:12:53 -!- kmc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:16:18 -!- kmc has joined. 06:17:40 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:19:50 -!- cheater has joined. 06:26:20 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:32:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:36:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:37:44 -!- cheater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:38:20 -!- cheater has joined. 06:43:31 -!- tikfreenode has quit (Changing host). 06:43:31 -!- tikfreenode has joined. 06:43:42 -!- tikfreenode has changed nick to Tiktalik. 06:58:28 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:59:02 -!- cheater has joined. 07:06:14 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 07:06:16 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:11:26 "The spec stipulates that any letter not among these should be ignored. 07:11:26 " 07:11:34 What about non-letters not specified there 07:11:52 (Paintfuck) 07:12:37 Well, the original announcement says the correct thing 07:54:02 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:54:18 -!- cheater_ has joined. 08:08:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:09:49 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:48:49 It's more like "ch" as in "Bach". <-- /me practices 08:49:07 that's pretty cool, actually 08:53:41 wait, uvular? the german is also velar :( 08:54:17 * oerjan tries further back 08:54:35 sadly, that doesn't make it even cooler 08:55:24 oerjan: I'm not sure about "back". 08:55:30 Uvular is done with the uvula. 08:55:38 I don't actually know how velar works. 08:56:02 well, i tried pronouncing it like a "h", but with more friction 08:56:08 *an 08:57:29 Er... Where does the friction come from? 09:00:01 hm wait the german r is uvular, so just unvoice that 09:00:36 Right, an unvoiced uvular r would work, more or less. 09:01:13 oh, "According to Kohler,[7] the German ach-Laut is further differentiated into two allophones, [x] and [χ]:" 09:01:22 the latter being the uvular one 09:01:46 and Bach supposedly has that 09:02:17 i don't think my german pronunciation is that precise :) 09:03:54 some norwegian dialects have uvular r, but not mine 09:05:48 ok h is glottal, so that's too far back 09:05:57 As elliott would say: 09:06:06 What does it feel like having the WRONG NORWEGIAN DIALECT? 09:06:11 WRONG PERSON. Who is WRONG. 09:06:48 oerjan: Do you know what the uvular one sounds like? 09:07:04 well yes 09:07:38 although when i try to fake a bergen dialect, it really sounds fake 09:07:59 though possibly not because of the r 09:13:59 * oerjan realizes his german probably sounds just as fake, he just cannot hear it that well 09:42:59 It sounds like your Bach is worse than your byte. 10:04:16 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:08:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:01:14 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:16:15 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:19:28 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:35:42 -!- shachaf has joined. 11:35:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:36:10 -!- derdon has joined. 11:36:46 Hello! 11:36:55 yo 11:39:27 -!- Ngevd has joined. 11:39:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:40:48 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 11:41:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:42:57 What do people think of this David Catt person? 11:44:07 pretty prolific 11:45:04 he'll wear out eventually. even zzo38 did :P 11:45:47 well, i guess he's putting up things he's already made, anyway 11:49:02 -!- david_werecat has joined. 11:49:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:49:46 OK, weird America thing: medical adverts. 11:49:48 BUT ALL IN ALL HE'S A FINE AND UPSTANDING ESOLANGER 11:50:56 -!- Ngevd has joined. 11:51:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:38 BUT ALL IN ALL HE'S A FINE AND UPSTANDING ESOLANGER 11:52:06 I really need to find somewhere with a better wifi connection 11:52:25 AFTER LUNCH 11:52:50 MAÑANA 11:53:01 Also, hello david_werecat, I like your VB.Net quine 11:53:07 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 11:53:12 -!- david_werecat has changed nick to boink666. 11:54:02 -!- boink666 has changed nick to david_werecat. 11:54:34 Thanks. 11:55:28 Oh, also, American bacon is weird. 12:12:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:26:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 12:37:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:59:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:59:42 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:13:19 david_werecat: nice music 13:13:32 do you like the faceless? 13:14:00 Yes, although I perfer their first album to their new one. 13:14:50 i think both have their moments, but i suppose i listen to the first one more 13:15:32 what did you use for these? 13:15:54 I used Finale Songwriter. 13:17:15 Sometime, I'm going to post some of my actual guitar work; although the drums will still be done in Finale. 13:17:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: The universe is just a big torture chamber.). 13:17:49 i seem to be too lazy to ever buy something i can actually record my guitar playing with 13:18:41 Ah. I use a Tascam, it seems to work well. 13:18:57 So, do you have a soundcloud? 13:19:23 i have never ever heard of that 13:19:35 oh 13:19:46 but so yeah no 13:21:17 i have now. 13:21:37 what is it 13:23:05 Soundcloud is basically a way to share music. 13:23:46 You can find a lot of people posting demos on there. 13:25:17 oh the page with your music was indeed your soundcloud userpage. 13:26:24 Sometime this summer, I'll probably have a full demo EP done to post there. 13:30:46 coo. 13:31:11 can you play the stuff on your page? 13:33:13 Yes. Although, I wouldn't suggest playing "SuperEarRapePlus" for obvious reasons. Also, pause at the end of "Technical Fragment", otherwise the ear rape starts directly after. 13:33:42 did you understand that i meant whether you can play them on the guitar? 13:34:15 Oh, sorry. I can mostly play them. 13:34:53 I just can't do sweeps that well, but everything else is okay. 13:35:36 i can sweep just fine except for that fact that people usually define sweeping as being able to sweep at 20 notes per second. 13:36:40 i can do two octaves of the minor scale up and down in a bit over a second, so something like 10 notes per second 13:37:32 Cool. I'm almost up to that speed, although I don't practice enough. 13:37:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:38:22 i have a 7 string in GC#GC#GC#G, buying an 8 string, gonna use fourths between strings for that 13:38:35 well actually i have it already, but not at home yet 13:40:22 Very nice. I don't have anything that fancy, just a normal 6 string in drop B. What type of guitar is it? 13:40:59 ibanez, but i don't know much more... :P 13:41:10 i mostly just care about the number of strings. 13:41:52 13:42:00 ion 13:42:02 URL? “ david_werecat: nice music†13:42:16 see eso page 13:46:33 Almost ready to release my new language "PP_TIBSA" 13:51:32 so what's this tascam thing's exact name? i torrented something but it doesn't seem to be right. really it would be enough if i had a way to use my webcam's mic, windows sound recorder isn't that great. 13:53:15 the sound gets distorted after a second or so, some kind of autocorrection. 13:53:41 Tascam is a device that allows you to plug an amp directly into the computer. I use Audacity for all my editing and recording. 13:53:56 right 13:54:10 makes more sense, but since there was a program called that, i figured you might mean that. 13:55:50 It actually comes with a professional recording software included in the package. I can't remember the name of that software, though. 13:56:51 it's just that i know every mic can record decently enough for my purposes, since the first second or so sounds right, and then for some reason everything becomes filtered. 13:59:58 Maybe try checking in the Windows audio mixer. The microphone probably has an option to turn that off. 14:01:28 -!- boily has joined. 14:03:57 can you listen to wma? 14:04:32 here's a sample http://www.vjn.fi/lul/wtf.wma the song is called bashing the guitar at random to get a sample 14:04:47 the first chord sounds like a guitar. 14:04:56 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:05:52 and i can't find an option like that anywhere 14:06:37 at least under the name make an electric guitar sound like it's being played under water 14:07:26 It should be under "Noise Canceling" 14:07:32 hmm 14:08:36 I think on my computer, I found it in the Realtek control panel. 14:08:53 oh? where in it? 14:09:10 i can't find anything of use there 14:09:31 I'm looking into it right now... 14:11:39 thanks 14:12:52 that's really all i'd need, since i usually only record stuff so i can better hear my mistakes. 14:14:35 I'm still looking, it seems that Realtek doesn't handle the webcam mic... 14:15:29 It might actually be under the webcam settings. 14:16:50 i checked, with the obvious results. 14:18:49 I know it's somewhere, I just can't seem to find it right now... 14:21:11 There is an option under the Realtek control panel -> Microphone that says "Noise Canelation", but it's grayed out on my computer 14:22:15 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 14:23:41 hmph 14:26:32 The best advice that I have right now it to right click on the speaker icon, select input devices, double click on the mic, then go to enhancments and turn off any options like DC Offset Cancelation, Noise Cancelation and Acoustic Echo Supression. Also, try setting the mic level to 100% and the volume boost to +30db 14:28:12 Also, try setting the quality to 2 channel, 16bit, 192000hz (studio quality) 14:28:21 That's in the advanced tab 14:29:50 on the phone 14:30:26 Oh, in that case, I have no idea. 14:30:32 no i am. 14:30:43 Oh, okay. 14:39:07 people do such stuff on the phone these days? 14:52:03 ookay finally 14:52:06 still here+ 14:52:07 _ 14:52:09 ? 14:52:12 hard to find, that. 14:52:42 i have something called Realtek HD audio manager 14:53:13 is that the right place, because i can't really find anything for input devices there :/ 14:53:58 Tennis http://youtu.be/QBqBCMpn4ZE 14:54:07 The speaker icon to right-click is the one for the Windows volume manager, not the Realtek one. 14:56:03 oh 14:56:20 ion: Never seen something like that before! XD 14:56:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:58:16 sound -> recording -> mic -> advanced has something called default format, but i can only go up to dvd quality :/ 15:00:22 It doesn't make that much of a difference. DVD quality is still good quality, generally it takes an audiophile to tell if something was recorded at 48000hz or 192000hz. 15:00:30 right. 15:00:43 yeah i just want it to sound roughly like a guitar 15:01:34 Was there an option under the enhancments tab to turn effects on and off? 15:02:15 -!- elliott has joined. 15:02:20 That's the main cause of the problem. 15:03:21 hmm 15:04:03 i can't find one anywhere, at least 15:04:30 [...] generally it takes an audiophile to tell if something was recorded at 48000hz or 192000hz. <-- dibs on the "did that pass a double blind test" comment 15:05:14 (i think that's sort of obligatory in this channel) 15:05:56 audiophiles can't distinguish 48khz and 192khz, sorry. 15:06:23 http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html if you don't believe me. 15:06:47 oerjan: ("ABX test" is the appropriate lingo here) 15:06:58 okay 15:08:05 oerjan: (play A, play B, then play randomly from A and B several times, identifying which one it is each time) (obviously the picking is automated) 15:09:39 True. I do agree that it's kind of pointless to have settings like that. Although, with 192khz I can make a dog whistle that's too "powerful" for any normal speaker to handle it 15:10:10 so basically it takes an audiophile dog. got it. 15:10:15 more than pointless, 192khz is actually slightly worse as far as fidelity goes :) 15:10:30 (on many systems) 15:12:23 Recording and processing at a higher spatial and bit resolution might give you more room for various kinds of processing even if you downsample it to something like CD quality in the end. 15:13:42 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:14:08 ion: Yes, the article covers that. 15:15:15 Maybe, although most microphones don't handle that kind of resolution so often times it only makes sense to record at maximum what your input can handle. 15:15:42 192khz is generally too high for most equipment 15:20:09 Speaking of pointless, I just released PP_TIBSA. 15:23:22 14:53:58: Tennis http://youtu.be/QBqBCMpn4ZE 15:23:34 ion: You have no idea how much it costs us to import dinosaurs each year for Wimbledown. 15:25:10 I can imagine. 15:25:32 *Wimbledon. 15:25:38 Wimbledown is the Australian spinoff. 15:26:36 -!- cheater_ has joined. 15:26:40 Ah, the best part about that article I linked is seeing everyone's inane responses to it. 15:26:48 yeah you cannot import dinosaurs to australia 15:26:49 "Going from 16 to 20 bit is like going from vinyl to CD. Remember that every bit more represents twice the information, so going from 16 to 18 you'll get 4 times more depth." 15:26:59 I thought it was the version for people suffering from Down syndrome. 15:27:16 elliott: haha 15:27:58 "What I can tell you guys is that there is a huge difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192. 16/44.1 just doesn't sound right. When you mix a project (usually I work with 24/96 kHz) you have a sonic depth of the elements, let's say a voice vs. reverberation; finally you get a mix down which is your "Master" but as soon as you convert it to 16/44.1 your work goes to the trash, you lose much of the program you had. The voice will get 'into your face' a 15:27:58 nd you will lose a lot of the reverb you had, you don't get things in the space they were. [...] On regards of the sampling frequency 192 kHz do sound softer, it's much more natural but unfortunately it does take more resources. 96kHz has a good trade off." 15:28:32 Mostly it's just "" over and over again, though. 15:28:39 -!- augur has joined. 15:29:23 It would be so easy to do double-blind tests of your own for stuff like that. 15:29:50 I suppose they don’t want to do a test that potentially invalidates such a strong belief. 15:29:55 You can't *test* *feeling*. 15:30:29 I think it's just arrogance. 15:33:27 -!- itidus21 has joined. 15:40:34 -!- amina has joined. 15:41:17 -!- amina has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:41:38 elliott: It's also "I like big numbers" over and over again. 15:41:56 Yes, that too. 15:41:58 People use WiMAX? 15:42:14 hmm 15:42:25 elliott: I believe one of the "4G" services here is secretly WiMAX. 15:42:37 Let's computing! 15:43:00 i hear it's very important that the cables of your speakers don't intersect themselves, because the inductive currents are clearly audible 15:43:39 "Did you know... that carrying the body parts of your dismembered mother to a refrigerator is hardly Soft & Cuddly?" -- Wikipedia's main page as of some hours ago, displaying astounding editorial judgement 15:46:11 ok, someone tell me what i was trying to think of but hit a dead end.. if you have 2 points with n dimensions, but you represent those points by taking < n dimensions and draw a line between them 15:47:15 like if you had point 5,3,2 and point 8,1,4 .. and you instead interpreted them as point 5,3 and point 8,4 15:47:23 it's not very interesting is it... 15:47:44 elliott: Lasted six hours, apparently. 15:47:58 Yep! 15:48:16 You have to wonder who wrote that thinking "yes, I want thousands of people to see this". 15:49:01 someone quite evil i would say 15:49:07 The funny thing is that in the context of the link, it's not even really spam, it's just not phrased in a neutral fashion. 15:49:49 do you guys know a compiler from some intermediate language to lambda calculus? 15:49:54 someone who has been reading too much psychology texts and wanted to mess with as many heads as possible 15:49:57 itidus21: what about that? 15:50:03 RocketJSquirrel: I wonder if it was originally scheduled for April 1st or something 15:50:03 some intermediate language with loops, ifs and basic arithmetic 15:50:23 mroman_: You'll have a better time finding such a language if you don't require imperative features such as loops 15:50:23 that's called a linear projection, basically what linear algebra studies 15:50:31 elliott: The relevant entry and link is still there, I think somebody just decided they wanted to rephrase it in their own style *shrugs* 15:50:42 oklopol: well usually when i have a thought like that, i'm sniffing onto an actual theory which is very old and worn out 15:50:54 yeah it's called linear algebra 15:51:02 hmm.. 15:51:31 if you want to learn math, that's one of the first things you should study. 15:51:33 RocketJSquirrel: Ohyeah, the article's obviously listed, since DYK lists pretty much anything that is (a) new and (b) not crap, I'm just talking about the blurb :P 15:51:56 elliott: I don't need loops actually 15:52:41 mroman_: Well, there's Lazy K's Lazier language, which compiles down to SKI calculus... you just have to replace S, K and I with their definitions. 15:52:43 foo n := if (n > 5): foo (n-1) else: n 15:52:50 Also see http://matt.might.net/articles/compiling-up-to-lambda-calculus/ 15:52:53 ^- something like that would work to 15:52:55 *too 15:53:08 Which compiles a little s-expy lang to lc 15:53:45 oklopol: the first thought was.. in a grid each cell tends to have 4 or 8 neighbours.. and i was thinking.. what if it only had 3 neighbours.. would it represent 2.5 dimensions in a way 15:54:10 well 15:54:15 itidus21: hexagonal grids have that 15:54:25 and i thought, in a line, each cell tends to have 2 neighbours.. but if it had only 1 neighbour perhaps it is some kind of .5 15:54:29 err have what? 15:54:45 3 neighbors for each vertex 15:55:03 right, also the connected graph of 5 elements has that 15:55:05 the latter comment is like a singly linked list 15:55:21 erm 15:55:23 4 15:55:38 but.. is there a correlation between the number of spatial dimensions and the number of neighbours of a cell 15:56:01 itidus21: there isn't, directly. 15:56:08 my poor brain 15:56:31 itidus21: see oerjan's example, arguably it's still 2d 15:56:38 you need at least to look at how it grows for iterated cases 15:56:46 yeah 15:57:11 and i'm not sure whether that works 15:57:22 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:57:38 if you take a finite amount of generators for the group Z^2, probably you get 2 as dimension if you take a limit of sizes of balls, and adjust nicely. 15:58:06 hmm 15:58:38 :-P ... 15:58:43 The set of all typed terms (simple type theory) is not turing complete? 15:58:48 you can make them grow constant times faster by adding generators, but i suppose you get that the size is theta n^2. 15:58:50 well if you assume the distance is the same as shortest path between two points, then you can calculate a hausdorff-like dimension, perhaps 15:59:08 for a discrete group? 15:59:12 i mean 15:59:13 countable 15:59:22 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1173214/how-to-stop-working what a programming question 15:59:23 if we're talking about the dimensions of a grid 15:59:24 As every typed term has a beta normal form 15:59:27 i'm not thinking of groups, i'm thinking of infinite graphs 15:59:35 righ 15:59:36 t 15:59:41 just consider Z^n as the intuitive example 15:59:43 elliott: It was removed already. :-( 15:59:54 and streuth knows what i am thinking 15:59:54 well what i said might be a way to define dimension? 16:00:05 Which means, that every algorithm which can be represented in lambda calcalus and we can assign a type to that term terminates? 16:00:14 the number of points at distance <= k grows like Theta(k^n) 16:00:16 d such that for any set of generators, you have that balls are of size theta n^d 16:00:19 elliott: What was the question? 16:00:27 in addition to the title 16:00:30 ion: I just deleted it :D 16:00:36 I didn't realise mine was the final vote. 16:00:41 im trying to thin about porn now.. to cool down from my mathy confusion 16:00:55 oerjan: well right, that's exactly what i'm saying 16:01:12 * elliott tries to upload it somewhere. 16:01:21 and i guess the question is what kinds of growth rates can appear for groups 16:01:40 mine at least 16:03:05 as for me, i just had to unburden myself.. having a difficult night 16:03:16 well ejaculation is a good way to do that 16:03:36 but i wonder whether this graph thing has been thought about for hundreds of thousands of years 16:03:43 i mean group thing 16:03:55 at least they talk about these groth rates a lot in the CA literature 16:04:06 * 16:04:09 growth 16:04:11 oklopol: why groups? there is no requirement that the edges of a graph have any group action relating them. 16:04:17 ion: wget http://sprunge.us/jSTO -O working.html && xdg-open working.html 16:04:26 ion: It... may be a little anticlimatic after that effort. 16:04:28 oerjan: because the question is trivial for graphs? 16:04:32 But I wanted to try out the script! 16:04:53 and CA are always run on a group, so when i hear grid, it's a particular group. 16:05:29 so countable finitely generated groups 16:05:34 well countable is implied ofc 16:05:35 um and grids are a subset of graphs, so if it's trivial for graphs... 16:05:54 it's trivial that you can construct any dimension for graphs 16:06:05 by using graphs that aren't f.g. groups. 16:06:27 oerjan: More like grads are sabsats of graphs. 16:06:29 *af 16:06:31 *+abelian 16:06:40 elliott: heh 16:06:56 the graph of the free non-abelian group on 2 generators is pretty clearly infinite dimensional 16:07:15 (it's an infinite branching binary tree, iirc) 16:07:26 well obviously 16:07:34 i think by 3 neighbours what i had in mind was connect-4 rules 16:07:46 * elliott wonders what the most downvoted deleted question is. 16:08:15 but what i don't know is whether this is well-defined 16:08:19 for all graphs 16:08:27 i doubt it 16:08:29 alkdfjlasdjfklas 16:08:32 for all groups. 16:08:32 and in the other direction, finitely generated abelian implies quotient of Z^n, and i suspect quotients cannot increase dimension 16:09:14 well i don't see the need for abelianity 16:09:31 you might look into amenability 16:09:32 at least for CA you usually assume it's either amenable or sometimes just sofic 16:10:25 (sofics contain abelians and residually finite ones) 16:10:36 (and there are no examples of nonsofic f.g. groups) 16:10:46 also, why do i always get caught up in discussions just as i'm becoming too hungry to think clearly --> 16:10:53 :D 16:11:13 i like how we mentioned amenability one second apart 16:12:30 actually iirc there aren't really any examples of nonamenable groups either 16:12:58 erm, the free group on 2 generators... 16:13:24 well i don't even remember the definition of amenability, but i see 16:13:58 well i do seem to recall that the garden of eden theorem is true on amenable groups but not on the free group 16:14:10 i think it was a long-standing, eventually solved problem whether every non-amenable countable discrete group had to contain F_2, i don't quite remember which way the solution went 16:14:19 oh cool 16:15:09 was it you who solved it though? 16:15:19 oerjan 16:16:08 -!- juhani has joined. 16:16:16 hello finnish person 16:16:24 -!- juhani has changed nick to nortti. 16:16:34 oh it's just you 16:28:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:28:50 Hello! 16:29:02 What do people think of 0x10c? 16:32:43 olleh 16:32:59 oklopol: me, heck no 16:33:27 in fact i'm not entirely sure it was solved. should look it up... 16:33:58 oerjan <-- I WAS HUNGRY I SAID 16:34:13 (technically still am) 16:34:29 i proved a lemma about a very specific class of topological groups today! 16:34:46 Hang on, has anyone asked david_werecat the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS? 16:34:59 oh hm 16:35:01 well it doesn't really require a proof but i stated it 16:35:20 * oerjan swats Taneb for never marking his move in the iwc h&h's -----### 16:35:32 Ow 16:35:44 david_werecat, do you live in Hexham? 16:35:57 you're not the only one, but you're the one within swatting distance 16:36:08 Sorry 16:36:12 Hexham? 16:36:32 It's a town, famous for it's unusually high density of esoteric programmers 16:36:59 Ah, no. 16:37:00 david_werecat: it has been established that approximately 91.3% of #esoteric regulars are from either hexham or helsinki. 16:37:41 oerjan: Is your swatula thing always 5'-'3'#'? 16:37:58 So this is what it feels like to be a minority... 16:37:59 shachaf: DEFINITELY 16:38:14 swatula :D 16:38:14 Do you type it in by hand each time or do you have some automation to do it? 16:38:23 david_werecat: the approximation may be a _teeny_ bit off 16:39:00 automation, what kind of insane magic is that 16:39:02 beeny tit 16:39:13 My approximation that 100% of approximations are accurate is probably off too... 16:39:13 (there's 2 from Hexham and 5-ish from Helsinki) 16:39:22 * shachaf has been to Helsinki! 16:39:31 * Taneb has been to Hexham! 16:39:31 5 1/2-ish, then 16:39:34 I've also been to the UK. 16:39:40 Taneb: are you sure about the number for helsinki? 16:39:45 can you list them 16:39:53 oklopol, no, I cannot 16:40:01 i thought it was two for helsinki 16:40:22 it's three at least 16:40:28 fizzie Deewiant atehwa (I think) 16:40:33 oh ineiros too i think 16:40:40 nortti? 16:40:45 nortti is not from h 16:40:48 Ah 16:41:06 those finns, confusing everyone by having more than one town 16:41:10 `? finland 16:41:19 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 16:41:23 i also thought ineiros isn't from helsinki 16:41:30 `? hexham 16:41:35 hexham? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:41:58 `? Ngevd 16:42:00 I am now living in Helsinki. Two months ago I was living in Espoo. 16:42:00 ​%Õ“.á“ÔÉ¢1cs ؄͉[Ù. .Ñä½Ì$}.f¿Og¨ØW-ƒuåuhÝ”á~}8pŽ§È˜ž3 $.ØK܈Ã.Õ.á.PÐÎ*F,i.a¼+µ³üÏ^BóT.…Š1Ú›.†‘%Ä>–¨ó"™YçÛ‡!..•.ï.L3KÅÉøÐÌ©cÉjè–r2æ)8Æ+å[þì#Âë\¦¾”.kúqÉ)Èú.¥š;²{Ãÿ`¶­ô‰.Tû.w”Nº.å3A±.95‚O¦®EÍ.ÝÔÖäÄø3–y'.ÕYž..Ý1¥PX¤Ï” Ž.¬×ó ö¨Àq5?qiaÍ99.¡hùÌDÇ¥¥V¥ÿÓKò£aÔ²T• 16:42:06 (my alt) 16:42:06 alright 16:42:17 so just 4 then 16:42:22 and possibly more 16:42:31 I think that said "from Helsinki". 16:42:50 what said? 16:42:56 `learn Hexham is a European town. There are five people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Ngevd runs the student board. 16:43:00 I knew that. 16:43:12 ineiros: More like: EsPOO. 16:43:12 should be close enough. 16:43:27 :DSDSD 16:43:47 Of course, for Helsinki to have the same esolanger density as hexham, it would need over 100 esolangers. 16:43:52 fizzie, try harder 16:44:07 Is ion helsinkian? 16:44:19 btw there's another esolanger at our uni, he just doesn't do irc 16:44:19 Tampere 16:44:26 Ah 16:44:26 ah it was ion 16:44:36 i just remembered it was someone who started with i 16:44:47 and both ilari and ineiros do, so i assumed he double lives there 16:44:47 (And technically fizzie is not living in Helsinki) 16:44:58 Aloril? 16:45:22 I've been to Tampere! 16:45:37 But I think we could count the whole Greater Helsinki. 16:45:38 me too 16:46:06 aka Finland 16:46:17 ^ 16:46:17 oerjan: You mean Europe. 16:46:32 shachaf: you haven't conquered us _yet_... 16:46:35 Are fizzie and fizziew the same person? 16:46:49 the other is fizzie's wife 16:46:50 Taneb: implausible 16:47:04 Or actually the Helsinki Metropolitan Area. Greater Helsinki refers to an area that is too large. 16:47:05 oh right, fizzie is married (yes it was a shock to me too) 16:47:33 (disclaimer: fizziew may not be fizzie's wife) 16:47:52 It took me ages to figure out oklopol and oklofok are different people 16:48:15 i 16:48:23 Taneb i hate to break it to you but 16:48:26 I believe fizziew is just fizzie's alter ego. 16:48:29 they're 16:48:29 they're not 16:49:08 elliott: Are shachaf and shachef different people? 16:49:13 fizzie: btw me and my ex once talked about taking the bus to helsinki, and asking you to be a witness for our marriage and then getting married 16:49:29 shachaf: Yes. 16:49:52 elliott: wait, that means shachaf doesn't look like a monkey anyhow? 16:50:05 (the one that visited the channel once) 16:50:10 (or twice) 16:50:33 oerjan: Huh? I'm not the Bonzi BUDDY thing. 16:50:38 oerjan: That's just he background. 16:50:45 oerjan: I'm the multicolored thing in the foreground. 16:50:55 -!- shachef has joined. 16:50:57 shachaf: suuuuuure. hm what was the link again. 16:50:58 oerjan doesn't "get" art. 16:51:02 hi shachef 16:51:08 @botsnack 16:51:08 :) 16:51:20 oerjan: http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag/shachef.png 16:51:21 shachef: @admin + elliott 16:51:27 @admin - shachaf 16:51:33 @squat 16:51:33 -!- shachef has quit (Client Quit). 16:51:36 gracias 16:51:49 oerjan: Based on this photograph: http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png 16:53:40 In other news... 16:53:44 * oerjan wonders if _everyone_ gets ben-kiki as the second suggested google completion for shachaf 16:54:01 oerjan, I do 16:54:07 I think that's his: name. 16:54:07 i do 16:54:54 Nathan van Doorn (@Taneb) is now following you on Twitter! 16:54:56 elliott: um, duh, that's why i asked 16:55:03 Hmm. I think I'll go and watch some burlesque. 16:55:16 shachaf, that is my twitter account! 16:55:18 elliott: I think many other people have that: name. 16:55:36 Why do I even have a Twitter account? 16:55:42 shachaf: I refuse to believe more than, like, three people could have a name as silly as "Ben-Kiki". 16:55:58 elliott: And they're all me. :-( 16:56:23 elliott: Hay you. 16:56:53 Hi zzo38. 16:57:18 zzo38 reads log, I heard. 16:57:22 (Hi zzo38!) 16:57:43 zzo38: Hay you. 16:58:21 @quote oerjan 16:58:26 lam 16:58:27 lam 16:58:33 i'm now on page 3 in google, i should probably ask for a raise 16:58:38 nice timing, that 16:59:56 oren, that's almost oerjan. maybe i am secretly his father. 17:00:52 shachaf: Are you oerjan's son? 17:01:11 elliott: That depends. Does oerjan hate styrofoam? 17:02:16 Don't say "styrofoam" I'll hear it aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargjiorjg 17:03:15 elliott: Little-known fact: Pronouncing my name correctly sounds like rubbing styrofoam against styrofoam. 17:03:49 http://www.retroprogramming.com/2009/07/perverse-code-deviant-forth.html is this me? 17:04:01 shachaf: your father gave you a name he hates? 17:04:05 oklopol: yes 17:04:16 i don't remember that at all :D 17:04:16 oerjan: Are you my father? 17:04:50 seriously i've been sleep proving or something 17:04:53 shachaf: it's _somewhat_ unlikely based only on name resemblance 17:05:18 but hey, transliterating to and from hebrew can do weird things 17:06:20 Absolutely. 17:06:35 Did you know "John" is derived from a name that has the same letter as the "ch" in my name? 17:07:01 something like yochanan, yes 17:07:31 * oerjan remember that from our baby names book 17:07:32 What does "Ørjan" mean, anyway? 17:07:35 *s 17:07:56 would you believe it's the same as "George"? :P 17:08:10 (thus meaning "farmer") 17:09:43 George is my middle name 17:09:45 After my great-grandfather, who's middle name was Elliott 17:09:46 *whose 17:09:53 sometimes i google "oklopol" and marvel at my genius for hours 17:09:55 is this bad 17:10:01 no 17:10:43 oklopol: what happens if you google "oklofok" instead? 17:11:09 elliott: Does "(" have a value? 17:11:39 elliott: If not, why does "2+( 5*3)" have a value? 17:11:42 oerjan: not much. 17:11:50 okay 17:11:52 but at least that one isn't also used by a set of idiots 17:12:01 wat 17:12:10 oklopol is used by a few others, based on google 17:12:22 Apparently there's a racehorse called "Lady Taneb" 17:13:23 oerjan: ooh, so you're yrjö in finnish 17:13:47 i'm gonna start calling you that 17:14:02 yyk 17:14:09 it also means vomit 17:14:09 hi yrjö 17:14:20 Oh. :-( 17:14:27 I'll go back to Ørjan. 17:14:32 so it's probably not as common nowadays 17:14:39 you don't say. 17:15:14 ØrjÌ·an 17:15:27 well it could have been worse, i could have been named Bent, Odd, Even, Odd-Even, 17:15:32 Ø̷rÌ·jÌ·aÌ·n 17:15:44 also i could have been able to not hit return accidentally 17:16:21 (Odd-Even is an _entirely_ plausible norwegian name.) 17:16:38 Ø̷̷rÌ·jÌ·aÌ·n 17:16:41 Aw. 17:16:54 Hmm. 17:17:02 odd-even :O 17:17:14 holy fuck that's be awesome 17:17:23 HÌ·ello. 17:17:25 Aw. 17:17:34 You can't make a combining character a different colour? 17:17:34 what 17:17:59 ("By the way, Odd Even is the name all computer nerds joke that they'll name their child.") 17:18:28 oerjan: Did you joke that you'll name your child that? 17:19:00 no. the quote may not be entirely true. 17:19:17 * shachaf gasps. 17:19:18 I, for one, have joked about calling my child Telemachus 17:19:32 I, for one, have jokes about calling my child elliott. 17:19:37 * shachaf is secretly elliott's father. 17:20:20 elliott: Make Knuth check his email faster. :-( 17:21:14 My plan to translate my name into Latin is failing... 17:21:55 Translating it via Hebrew gives "dedit" 17:22:08 However, that's a verb 17:22:40 nathanius georgius aculeanus 17:24:21 shachaf: Do you want to see something awful? 17:24:26 shachaf: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad 17:24:29 that's awkward with hebrew names, sometimes they're meanings are verb phrases 17:24:31 *their 17:24:32 This is the worst page on the HaskellWiki. 17:24:40 BOLD ITALICS EVERYWHERE 17:25:20 elliott: What's your problem with separating the composition timeline from the execution timeline? 17:25:29 Oh, it used to be fine: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/index.php?title=Monad&oldid=33391 17:25:39 Then a certain WillNess messed it up over the course of several years: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/index.php?title=Monad&action=history 17:26:12 Who *is* this WillNess person? 17:26:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:26:34 elliott: that's just the perfect opportunity to use the edit summary "cleaning up the wilderness" 17:27:05 * oerjan realizes mean 17:27:58 elliott: Wow, that "composition timeline" thing came up right in their first edit. 17:28:03 shachaf: Ohhh, now I remember who that is. 17:28:12 elliott: I hadn't heard "Monads as science-fiction plots" before. 17:28:14 It's the guy who asked that really ridiculous Haskell question on SO. 17:28:15 But I guess it makes sense. 17:28:30 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9149183/tail-optimization-guarantee-loop-encoding-in-haskell 17:28:33 The real fun is in the comments. 17:29:51 elliott: :-( 17:30:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:32:06 Taneb: hm maybe a better translation of van Doorn would be Jovianus 17:32:19 looking at the town etymology 17:35:11 oerjan: Can you ruthlessly kill anyone who argues definitions with someone trying to teach them the definition they're arguing about? 17:35:12 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:35:21 -!- cheater__ has joined. 17:35:29 elliott: "Then Monads serve to separate the pure from the pure in one big holiday celebration after another." 17:36:23 elliott: that may be difficult 17:37:05 elliott: What if YOU'RE MISLEADING? 17:37:32 elliott "Miss Leading" HIRD 17:37:36 Hmm 17:41:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:41 oklopol: finally got to looking it up, it's right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenable_group#Non-examples 17:45:08 crazy shit 17:45:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:46:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:00 oerjan: What do you mean "shock"? 17:55:36 er, um, well, you see 17:55:42 * oerjan shyffles feet 17:56:02 like, this, you know, this channel, people, you know, are sort of, you know 17:56:08 GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS 17:57:13 ifyouknowwhatimean. 17:57:32 Well, it's not really my fault, I was sort of not the person with the initiative. 17:57:36 (diff | hist) . . N Dog Training: How it works‎; 16:53 . . (+1,151) . . Jacksmithan (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Created page with "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_training Dog training] is the process of teaching a dog to perform behaviors in response to certain commands. The most common behaviors are "...") 17:57:41 Finally! I can find out Dog Training: How it works. 17:58:08 elliott: you realize that's a _very_ plausible esolang name 17:59:10 Even the quoted snipped starts out like an esolang description. I mean, "behaviors in response to certain commands" and so on. 17:59:11 it will be a hybrid of Chef, Zombie, Hunter, Homespring and Snack. 17:59:54 i guess there's some redundancy there. 18:00:12 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:00:31 fizzie: hm maybe we should use that as basis 18:00:41 Don't forget LOGO. 18:00:45 It definitely has some LOGO. 18:00:48 Just s/turtle/dog/ 18:00:59 ah yes. and Karel the Robot. 18:04:45 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: häivyn). 18:06:05 -!- augur has joined. 18:09:03 http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/128320/problem-for-run-applet-using-html 18:11:28 Oh god I so don't want to read that. 18:12:08 quick 18:12:10 it'll be deleted soon 18:12:24 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 18:12:48 Looks basically just like a generic "I'm incompetent and secondarily too incompetent to know where to complain about being incompetent" 18:13:08 Yes, but the formatting! The formatting! 18:13:54 -!- davidwerecat has quit (Client Quit). 18:14:00 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 18:15:22 -!- davidwerecat has changed nick to david_werecat. 18:15:46 does stackoverflow have preview, i forget 18:16:34 yes 18:17:04 -!- monqy has joined. 18:17:19 ah, then i shall not put them on my list of sites to utterly destroy when become world dictator. well not for that reason, anyway. 18:17:26 *i 18:19:12 you're ok with destroying sites but not people? 18:21:17 well the owners of wordpress _might_ want to hide early. 18:24:27 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:29:09 oerjan: why is 1.19 not out yet. 18:29:32 could one of you give me a couple of thousand euros 18:31:06 hm btw i just looked at the hello world list, in my browser those table of content links that are before stars in the 2L program are unclickable. 18:31:18 three different institutions have apparently decided that i don't need money to stay alive. 18:31:37 assholes 18:31:37 oerjan: i have already spent one day this month working around bugs in your out-of-date browser. 18:31:48 do you really want me to spend another? 18:32:11 elliott: well does it look ok in yours, at a window size too small to fit them side by side? 18:32:58 wait you mean a window size so small that the stars overlap the TOC? 18:33:10 yes. my usual size btw. 18:34:01 it's just a little narrower than full screen anyway... 18:34:49 fine, i will fix it. can i convince you to not complain if i put pre { overflow-y: scroll } in the site CSS in return? the page has sprouted a horizontal scrollbar again. 18:35:06 heh 18:35:41 that was a serious question 18:36:28 oh hm. there was one problem i saw with that the other day... 18:39:59 ehird ok 18:39:59 um, don't you mean overflow-x:scroll 18:40:00 What? 18:40:02 My nick isn't ehird. 18:40:04 oerjan: Er, maybe. 18:40:08 I mix up my coordinates. 18:40:37 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:40:55 * #haskell Banlist: Sat Jan 21 19:19:41 *!*Libster@*.bltmmd.east.verizon.net lindbohm.freenode.net 18:40:55 Heh. 18:41:15 @botsnack 18:41:16 :) 18:42:21 elliott: ouch, sorry that's horrible, it would put a scrollbar on _all_ pre's, regardless if needed. 18:42:41 oerjan: ok i mean pre { overflow-y: auto } 18:42:44 sheesh, stop nitpicking 18:43:05 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:43:49 -!- cheater__ has joined. 18:44:07 elliott: it's just that i saw the other day that http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nonsense_Query_List had useless scrollbars like that 18:45:04 oerjan: i cannot be held responsible for other people's crimes against formatting :P 18:45:26 _ideally_, I'd just have every line wrap, and have an indicator when lines wrap (like an indentation of the line and an arrow next to it) 18:45:30 but that'd require a small mediawiki extension 18:45:41 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:45:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:46:54 elliott: i think it's because he used _both_ word-wrap:break-word and overflow-x:scroll, i'll try removing the latter. 18:48:07 oerjan: erm 18:48:11 oerjan: do you really think touching that page is wise 18:48:49 * glguy removes ban on *!*Libster@*.bltmmd.east.verizon.net 18:48:49 lame 18:48:59 * #haskell Banlist: Sat Jan 21 19:19:41 *!*mathnerd3@*.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net lindbohm.freenode.net 18:49:01 whoa 18:49:02 elliott: oh hm. 18:49:13 elliott: ok feel free to rollback if you want :P 19:01:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:29 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:23:02 shachaf: 19:23:03 Absolutely newbie. I have the following list: pixels = [[255, 255, 255], [0, 0, 0]], but pixels !! 0 seems to return a double 19:23:03 (Actually a list of three Doubles) 19:23:50 what 19:24:57 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:31:58 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10026205/to-sample-a-voice-from-many-voices-using-matlab 19:32:01 I have a wave file of chicken voices. Among the voices there is a sound of chicken vomit. 19:32:02 So I've already convert the audio to Matlab plot, but don't have the idea on how to differentiate between the surround chicken voices and the vomit chicken. 19:32:36 X-D 19:33:54 -!- nortti has joined. 19:34:44 -!- augur has joined. 19:40:32 -!- itidus20 has joined. 19:40:55 SliTaz GNU/Linux runs great on Thinkpad T20 until it starts to swap to disk... 19:44:13 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:52:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:54:38 `help 19:54:40 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:55:10 hi 19:55:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:55:51 hi ais523 19:56:09 hi elliott 19:57:19 `run echo wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee >test 19:57:22 No output. 19:58:50 `fortune 19:58:50 oerjan: Thank you for your helpful contribution. 19:58:54 Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. 19:59:12 RocketJSquirrel: that actually helped me... 19:59:32 yeah 20:02:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:04:18 HackEgo: but i don't like that kind of experience :( 20:05:26 `fortunr 20:05:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fortunr: not found 20:05:36 `ofortuna 20:05:37 `fortune 20:05:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ofortuna: not found 20:05:53 Peak District <--> Is pickled tart \ -- anagrama 20:07:23 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:08:31 `run echo 'fortune; echo hel' > lbl 20:08:34 No output. 20:09:17 @where hel `run sh lbl 20:09:17 I know nothing about hel. 20:09:35 don't start another identical botloop... 20:09:42 ais523: btw do rollbacks hide edits from (default) recent changes or not? 20:09:44 @where+ hel `run sh lbl 20:09:45 Done. 20:09:48 oerjan: they don't 20:09:52 `run sh lbl 20:09:55 I lay my head on the railroad tracks, \ Waitin' for the double E. \ The railroad don't run no more. \ Poor poor pitiful me....[chorus] \.Poor poor pitiful me, poor poor pitiful me. \.These young girls won't let me be, \.Lord have mercy on me! \.Woe is me! \ \ Well, I met a girl, West Hollywood, \ Well, I ain't naming names. \ But she really worked me over good, \ She was just like 20:09:57 you can see my rollback of NSQX's edit to [[User:elliott]] in recentchanges 20:09:59 and the pervious edit before 20:10:13 oerjan: they don't normally, there's a hidden URL param you can use to make them hide the edit, though 20:10:24 ?bot=1 on a contributions page will change the rollback links on that page to hide the edit 20:10:24 Unknown command, try @list 20:10:30 huh, they don't? 20:10:33 are sysops different? 20:10:50 (diff | hist) . . m User:Elliott‎; 01:37 . . (+17) . . Ehird (Talk | contribs)‎ (Reverted edits by 202.156.14.101 (talk) to last revision by Elliott) 20:10:50 (Block log); 01:37 . . Ehird (Talk | contribs)‎ changed block settings for NSQX (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 1 week (account creation disabled) (block evasion) 20:10:50 (Block log); 01:36 . . Ehird (Talk | contribs)‎ blocked 202.156.14.101 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 week (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (block evasion) 20:10:50 (diff | hist) . . User:Elliott‎; 01:36 . . (-17) . . 202.156.14.101 (Talk)‎ (ZNT ELLIOTT LIEK EHIRD?) 20:10:54 that's while logged out. 20:11:16 elliott: I think bot rollback is accessible to anyone with rollback perms (which is not the same as undo perms, and which aren't given by default in the default config) 20:11:26 but it's a hidden feature, it's not mentioned in the interface anywhere 20:11:39 why do people use the golden section search for steepest descent when (according to my calculation) randomized binary section search is about 1% faster and not significantly harder to implement? 20:12:00 oh, they don't [hide] normally, OK 20:13:02 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/rumlg/clearly_go_is_a_superior_weapon_if_the_goal_is_to/c48ttru 20:14:12 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if Conservapedia covers EPR stuff 20:14:51 excellent poop receptor 20:16:33 conservapedia considers the european pressurized reactor a sure sign of the Beast. 20:17:14 oh $DEITY no. We are going to get Fox tv here on Finland 20:17:16 huh 20:17:28 the only mental link i get for EPR is einstein-podolsky-rosen 20:17:38 and the european platform for rehabilitation is even worse, being socialist healthcare. 20:17:38 quintopia, that's what I meant, I think 20:18:01 977 to go! 20:18:02 elliott gets toilets and oerjan does google searches 20:18:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:18:12 hi Phantom_Hoover hows america 20:18:21 im annapolis 20:18:22 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:18:37 maryland is okay 20:18:44 say hi to doodle for me while you're there 20:19:11 they can't understand _anything_ of electron paramagnetic resonance, so that's obviously evil. 20:20:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 20:20:19 i'm sure you can guess what they think of ecological planning and research. 20:21:38 what 20:21:46 oerjan has gone insane 20:21:46 hth 20:22:12 Phantom_Hoover: it's obviously part of the global warming conspiracy 20:22:17 heads tails heads? 20:22:31 also 20:22:34 who am doodle 20:23:32 It's funny how I regularly get highlights from the channel because people ask about Finnish people here :) 20:23:58 atehwa: It's your fault for being so Finnish! 20:24:03 You're in Helsinki, right? We were doing statistics. 20:24:38 Phantom_Hoover: just a friend of mine in the annapolis area 20:25:20 elliott: quite so. Although it doesn't make much difference which municipality you're in if it's the capital area 20:25:41 So, it's basically same town, whether it's Helsinki, Espoo or Vantaa 20:26:02 atehwa: Well, we're just picking the biggest Helsinki possible, because you need all the help you can get to surpass Hexham's esolang density. 20:26:05 *esolanger 20:26:41 Where is Hexham? 20:26:48 (maybe i should just google 20:26:49 ) 20:26:55 RocketJSquirrel: arent you at purdue? 20:27:07 atehwa: It's a small-ish market town in the UK. There are two people in this channel from there. 20:27:12 One of them is me; the other is Taneb/Ngevd. 20:27:20 The probability of this is incomprehensibly small. 20:27:28 quintopia: Eeyup. 20:27:58 ok 20:28:12 I'm quite sure the Finnish capital area will surpass you 20:28:22 atehwa: You'd need over 100 esolangers. 20:28:39 ah, so we're talking about comparative density here? 20:28:50 0.02% of Hexhamers are esolangers (going by 2001 population data, so probably a bit less) 20:29:06 :D 20:29:25 So you need 104.18 esolangers in Helsinki-the-city to beat us. 20:29:30 Okay, I'll more to Inari with some other esolanger so we'll have better statistics there 20:29:47 we've got really low-population municipalities in Finland :) 20:30:01 elliott: i am not sure expanding helsinki beyond the university-dense area is likely to help 20:30:04 Yeah, but if there's somewhere else in Finland with more esolangers, you don't even enter the competition ;) 20:30:08 oerjan: Good point. 20:30:27 ALSO: I have just realised that American houses are like normal houses pushed down a floor. 20:31:01 oerjan: Helsinki University of Technology is actually in Espoo, and they have some esolangers there. 20:31:03 Phantom_Hoover: I 20:31:15 atehwa: Is that the one that's not Wave? 20:31:22 They all have basements for some reason. 20:31:44 elliott: um... what are you referring to? 20:31:50 I don't understand 20:32:00 I can't fathom why, seeing as AFAICT they fulfil the same function as a second floor but with the added benefits of being dank, lightless and prone to flooding. 20:32:27 atehwa: Aalto. 20:32:33 ah. :) 20:32:39 yes. 20:32:41 atehwa: I call it Wave University since fizzie was all "oh, they're renaming our university to Wave" one day. 20:32:50 And that's a marginally more ridiculous name than Aalto. 20:33:05 HUT was renamed to Aalto when they merged with some other higher education institutes 20:33:08 Phantom_Hoover: tornados maybe? 20:33:19 Aalto is because of Alvar Aalto 20:33:21 I doubt it somehow. 20:33:28 atehwa: oh, so it's the one that _is_ aalto? 20:33:32 I haven't heard of many tornadoes in Maryland. 20:33:37 I wonder why he was the one to be named after... 20:33:39 or does HUT not stand for Helsinki University of Technology... 20:33:49 elliott: yes, they're the same 20:33:51 ... and where does that TKK thing come into this?! your universities are really confusing :) 20:34:01 HUT and TKK also mean the same 20:34:10 one university, three names 20:34:15 TKK is Finnish acronym whereas HUT is the English one 20:35:11 similarly, the art school has two acronyms, UIAH and TAIK (but they got merged into Aalto) 20:35:55 sincerely, what I keep wondering about is why all Finnish universities want English acronyms in addition to having Finnish ones. 20:36:27 to make people think they have twice as many universities 20:36:38 possibly the most devious plot ever 20:37:23 we mostly just use the english one 20:38:55 shachaf is going to turn off IRC to get something done. 20:42:03 wat 20:42:12 'Larva' is Latin for 'ghost'. 20:42:21 they knew something 20:42:22 we didn't 20:42:25 wat^2 20:42:35 i just found over 500 euros in a plastic bag 20:42:52 we have really many universities anyway, compared to the population, because at some point the state wanted to give support to rural areas by dispersing all kinds of institutions all around the country 20:42:52 i just found a plastic bag in over 500 euros 20:42:56 i have been throwing money in there for some time, apparently quite a bit :D 20:43:04 is oklopol broke or sth 20:43:07 yes 20:43:12 is this because you bought that computer 20:43:21 Phantom_Hoover: check out lemur okthxbye 20:43:47 i was supposed to get a 1200 grant, plus 300 extra, 1000 award money, and 3000 salary 20:43:50 i got 2000 salary. 20:44:16 perhaps the rest is coming this month 20:44:21 perhaps never 20:44:28 in any case, the 500 may help. 20:44:37 i didn't count all of it, probably there's at least 100 more 20:44:45 plus i do have more bags somewhere in there 20:44:59 and i can always rob my neighbors 20:45:41 elliott: the computer was before i started a savings account which i won't touch for 10 years and where i put all my moneys 20:45:50 i used to have moneys back then. 20:46:03 are you sure you're feeling ok 20:46:04 it sounds like 20:46:05 you're being 20:46:07 "responsible" 20:46:24 well i also just spent 600 on train tickets i have no use for 20:46:29 and i bought a guitar 20:46:50 also today i returned like 70 euros worth of bottles 20:47:08 i had lined our university office with them 20:47:14 atehwa: btw trondheim's university (NTNU)'s official name in english is norwegian university of science and technology. it is told that it originally was supposed to be "technology and science" until someone noticed a small detail... 20:47:16 i mean the walls 20:47:35 oerjan: they must have been nuts 20:47:40 HAAAAAAAA 20:47:40 HAAAAAAAA 20:47:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:48:11 (that's something like 150 liters or something) 20:48:22 Woah, I left this open 20:48:23 * oerjan puts elliott on the list of people who spoil jokes. 20:48:35 so finnish people 20:48:46 Fallout 1 for free. http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/fallout 20:48:52 do you to take 6 trips between kuopio and turku 20:49:48 If by "kuopio" you mean "cairo" and by "turku" you mean "turkmenistan" 20:50:04 you would need that? 20:50:12 Probably not 20:50:19 also you aren't finnish 20:50:28 i should probably sell them on the internets or something 20:50:36 afaiu you can't return them 20:51:38 also you aren't finnish <-- he's just translating to equivalent british empire terms 20:53:55 oerjan, I promise I'll mark my hurts and my heals from now on! 20:54:25 yay! 20:57:53 I WANT MOAR MONEYS 20:58:26 why can't i be one of those people that win all the lotteries 20:58:30 * Sgeo accuses oerjan of being legal, winning, and not fun 20:58:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:59:09 Sgeo: but i'm not a player! 20:59:17 * oerjan cackles madly 20:59:52 GOPL should be an esolang 21:00:01 Erm, described on the esolang wiki 21:00:19 * oerjan isn't sure he gets Sgeo's references here 21:00:27 http://www.win.tue.nl/~engels/frc/index.html 21:00:59 I was a fan of reading this stuff in 2003 21:01:24 oh right. 21:05:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:07:53 can two people upvote me plz thanks 21:07:53 (don't) 21:07:54 @time 21:07:55 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 22:07:48 21:08:01 elliott++? 21:08:06 or is that not an upvote? 21:08:12 no 21:08:18 ok so 3 hours to get two upvotes, easy 21:08:32 elliott: i can think positive thought about you if that helps? 21:08:34 oh, you're trying to hit SO karma cap? 21:08:37 thoughts 21:09:16 hmm, statistic just in: Chrome has a higher market share than IE on Sundays 21:09:30 ais523: not the cap, just 200 21:09:38 200 a day keeps the doctor away, they say 21:09:54 though i only average 167 :'( 21:16:19 -!- derdon has joined. 21:18:42 elliott: you've given up trying to cap it every day, then? good, I think 21:20:11 ais523: no, 200 is the cap 21:20:20 but you can reach 200 without reaching the cap 21:20:28 ? 21:21:39 I'm a little rusty on Haskell, but iirc, the ++ syntax is memory-expensive, where as the cons operator (:) is cheap. Is it possible to use something like (key, x) : parseToEntries xs? Again . . . my Haskell is very rusty, so this might be way off. – jpm 3 mins ago 21:24:48 ais523: accepts don't count to cap 21:24:54 *towards the 21:25:03 ah, OK 21:25:08 that makes sense, actually 21:25:51 wait, really? :) 21:26:10 There is no user by the name "Ehird". Usernames are case sensitive. Check your spelling, or create a new account. 21:26:12 err, oh dear 21:26:16 is it "ehird"? 21:26:27 my test wiki user somehow got renamed to "ehird" when i tried to add the lowercase username thing 21:26:39 time to poke at the DB... 21:27:51 * elliott is hoping to get the Math extension working w/o texvc 21:30:05 yay it works 21:30:38 ais523: what's a WP article with lots of LaTeX? 21:30:55 err, hmm, [[rotation matrix]]? 21:31:04 just thinking of one I came across recently (pointing my students to it) 21:31:10 thanks, that looks like a good test case 21:31:57 haha, what a good bug 21:32:17 MediaWiki escapes the & inside the math tag 21:32:19 turning it into & 21:32:26 so all aligned stuff gets amp; after it with MathJax 21:33:09 haha indeed 21:33:49 guess MediaWiki's MathJax support isn't ready for prime-time, then 21:40:50 "polls show that 21:40:56 "polls show that indeed 21:41:45 "polls show that over 20% of Americans say their main source of news is the Fox News Channel." 21:41:55 but more importantly, "polls show that 21:44:07 @time 21:44:08 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 22:44:01 21:44:10 hmph 21:48:21 @time 21:48:22 Local time for nortti is Fri Apr 06 00:50:02 UTC+3.00 2012 21:48:34 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: sleep). 21:49:50 ais523: you wake up! it is very dark. you are a graue. 21:49:59 you are likely to eat something. 21:50:09 elliott: almost works, but not really 21:51:12 EXCUSE ME you just RUINED my PERFECT ZORK FANFICTION 21:52:20 * Look for 'orphan' revisions hooked to pages which don't exist 21:52:20 * And 'childless' pages with no revisions. 21:52:20 * Then, kill the poor widows and orphans. 21:52:20 * Man this is depressing. 21:52:20 -- Mediawiki maintanence script orphans.php 21:52:53 haha, you even get that if you pass it --help 21:54:24 *W 21:55:20 "Loophole Could Allow Private Land Claims on Other Worlds" 21:55:23 Aerican Empire? 21:55:39 -!- parkkk has joined. 21:56:00 `welcome parkkk 21:56:03 parkkk: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 21:56:36 Do you know of a humorous book or article which employs an esoteric language as a vehicle to introduce its readers to computer science? 21:56:59 a la "Introduction to Computer Science through Brainfuck" 21:57:18 I don't think so, although it makes a lot of sense 21:57:26 I would love to read it! 21:57:37 I think you're now legally obligated to write it. 21:57:38 I've heard rumours of a course that started teaching people Ook! as a first language 21:58:02 ais523: Taught by monqy? 21:58:07 I will, at some point, but presently I find myself unable to as I'm a beginning cs student 21:58:11 elliott: I don't know 21:58:31 ais523: It's... a joke... 21:58:46 It's not 21:59:10 not entirely, at least 22:01:14 what topics would this book embrace? Help me list a few items so I can begin doing research 22:01:45 No, I meant what I said to ais523 was a joke. 22:01:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 22:03:31 -!- cheater__ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 22:04:18 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:04:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:06:13 -!- kmc has joined. 22:10:21 @time 22:10:21 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 23:10:14 22:10:44 elliott, are you planning on sleeping at a normal time? 22:10:51 22:11:22 For— WHY IS DWARF FORTRESS' RELEASE CYCLE MOVING SO QUICKLY 22:14:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night. As if.). 22:15:13 Phantom_Hoover: Again? 22:15:21 Sgeo: Don't be silly. 22:15:23 It's at 34.07. 22:15:34 34 came out in February. 22:15:40 Phantom_Hoover: Errythin' fast in 'Merica. 22:15:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:15:48 And those aren't bugfixes; he's overhauled animal training and clothing. 22:16:27 * Phantom_Hoover → trying to wrestle Henry into running Multiwinia the only way he knows: brute force and inadequate knowledge of X. 22:16:44 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:17:04 Phantom_Hoover: Bet you break it. 22:17:07 Enjoy your USbrick. 22:17:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:21:10 -!- cheater__ has joined. 22:23:00 -!- augur has joined. 22:23:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:24:15 Note to self: don't try to computers. Ever. 22:24:21 You're a moron. 22:25:24 Excuse me, it's not my fault I somehow bought a laptop with a GPU that seems to be moving backwards in time. 22:26:30 Phantom_Hoover: the gpu is going forwards, it's you and the rest of the world that are going backwards 22:27:03 It doesn't run Darwinia either. 22:27:09 Will... will it run Uplink. 22:27:22 (Correction, it does, but at ~1 FPS.) 22:27:55 HWELP I FOUND MY PLIERS 22:48:07 @time 22:48:07 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 5 23:48:00 22:48:09 graaa 22:57:00 http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/128340/visual-studio-zooming-and-help-with-web-browser 22:57:09 Visual Studio: Zooming, and help with web browser? 22:57:09 up vote 22:57:09 -4 22:57:09 down vote 22:57:09 favorite 22:57:10 Okay, How do I do zoom!!???? I've been trying 2 figure this out. 22:57:12 And how to make it so that when I go to another website, it shows the URL of every website I'm on, not just the URL I just typed in?????????????? For example, when I type "facebook.com", it leads me to Facebook. Then say I click on an ad. It goes to another website, but the URL textbox still says "facebook.com". I've been trying 2 figure this out help!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:57:17 By the way, I have 2010 Express. 22:57:57 * ais523 wonders if visual studio actually can act as a web browser 22:58:05 it wouldn't surprise me, it's not an entirely useless feature for an IDE to have… 22:58:27 At least at one point, Word had a web browser 22:58:45 It can render HTML, although it can't do it /well/. 22:59:05 Phantom_Hoover, it's MS, wouldn't it just use Trident? 22:59:24 Probably? 22:59:42 (IE's renderer) 22:59:45 iirc 22:59:49 Phantom_Hoover: How do you know that? 23:00:18 You know those computing classes I did back in 2010? 23:00:19 Yeah. 23:00:22 http://www.sitepoint.com/microsoft-drop-trident-from-internet-explorer/ 23:01:34 hilarious 23:02:08 Phantom_Hoover: Have I mentioned that I hold a grudge against chess players worldwide. 23:02:17 * Sgeo pretends that elliott was not being sarcastic 23:02:31 elliott, I used to play a little chess on occasion 23:02:41 Why. 23:03:25 Phantom_Hoover: Because they're dirty little sneaks. 23:03:32 "It is open source and has been in development far longer than any other engine." I don't believe the latter part is true of Lynx. 23:03:51 Phantom_Hoover: Dirty little sneaks who publish April Fools pranks on April 2nd. 23:03:54 There are certainly older engines, although I'm not sure whether any of the current ones are older. Gecko might be. 23:04:04 RocketJSquirrel: Uhhh... Gecko is not older than Lynx... 23:04:12 elliott, chess players? 23:04:17 RocketJSquirrel: Gecko is circa 1997. 23:04:19 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. 23:04:35 Phantom_Hoover: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8047, http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8051 23:05:41 Oh, hm, I was operating under the misconception that Gecko was actually derived from the original Netscape engine. 23:05:49 Apparently it was developed for NS6. 23:05:55 So, I lie lie lie hyuk 23:06:15 RocketJSquirrel: You think they could have developed something as good as Mozilla out of Netscape 4? 23:06:22 Have you ever *used* Netscape 4? 23:06:40 In fact, the whole reason Netscape went to hell and went open-source is because they fucked themselves over rewriting everything from scratch. 23:06:49 Yes, but I don't doubt their ability to throw away vast chunks :) 23:06:52 When was the rewrite that Joel Spolsky uses as an example of a bad idea 23:07:26 That was the rewrite. 23:07:38 But when, between what versions? 4 and 6? 23:07:46 4 and 5 (never happened). 23:07:51 Became Mozilla instead. 23:07:58 Then they used Mozilla to make 6. 23:08:41 Oh: "At least one more major revision of Netscape was expected to be released with the old layout engine before the switch." 23:08:45 Right, I wasn't aware that Mozilla was a rewrite per se, I thought it was just a very significant overhaul. 23:08:51 "exhaustively analysed all lines that follow after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 and came to some extraordinary conclusions." 23:08:54 So they fucked themselves over WITHOUT the immediate benefit. 23:09:03 RocketJSquirrel: Well, I don't think the surrounding chrome was rewritten? 23:09:03 That in and of itself should be enough of a clue that it's a joke 23:09:04 But the engine was. 23:09:16 Sgeo: It goes on to "explain" how it was done without actually checking them all. 23:09:34 It's fairly plausibly-written apart from (a) the orders of magnitude being way off and (b) the Turing machines bit. 23:09:42 Still need to write that text backend for WebKit some time. 23:09:50 RocketJSquirrel: Right: "In October 1998, Netscape announced that its next browser would use Gecko (which was still called NGLayout at the time) rather than the old layout engine, requiring large parts of the application to be rewritten. While this decision was popular with web standards advocates, it was largely unpopular with Netscape developers, who were unhappy with the six months given for the rewrite.[7] It also meant that most of the work 23:09:50 done for Netscape Communicator 5.0 (including development on the Mariner improvements to the old layout engine) had to be abandoned. Netscape 6, the first Netscape release to incorporate Gecko, was released in November 2000 (the name Netscape 5 was never used)." 23:09:59 elliott: Yes, I can wikipedia too ;) 23:10:00 So Mozilla probably wasn't a COMPLETE rewrite. 23:10:05 Really? 23:10:06 I can't. 23:10:13 *brain axplote* 23:10:16 "Gecko also has limited support for some non-standard Internet Explorer features, such as the marquee element" 23:10:24 Can you imagine if it *didn't*? 23:10:26 That would be sin. 23:10:31 YAY MARQUEE 23:10:40 was created as a joke, right? 23:11:04 [[ 23:11:04 Lou Montulli is credited as the inventor of the blink tag at Netscape, although he claims he only suggested the idea, without writing any actual code.[1] 23:11:04 ... At some point in the evening I mentioned that it was sad that Lynx was not going to be able to display many of the HTML extensions that we were proposing, I also pointed out that the only text style that Lynx could exploit given its environment was blinking text. We had a pretty good laugh at the thought of blinking text, and talked about blinking this and that and how absurd the whole thing would be. [...] Saturday morning rolled around and 23:11:05 I headed into the office only to find what else but, blinking text. It was on the screen blinking in all its glory, and in the browser. How could this be, you might ask? It turns out that one of the engineers liked my idea so much that he left the bar sometime past midnight, returned to the office and implemented the blink tag overnight. He was still there in the morning and quite proud of it.[1] 23:11:10 ]] 23:11:49 I like how that means we can blame a non-standard, inaccessible, horrific HTML kludge on Lynx. 23:13:35 lol 23:14:11 @time 23:14:12 Local time for elliott is Fri Apr 6 00:14:05 23:14:17 grrrr 23:14:25 was it standard at any point, and unstandardised due to being so unpopular? or not? 23:14:45 It might be in HTML5? 23:14:54 Probably not. 23:14:59 doesn't even work nowadays. 23:15:03 WebKit doesn't support it. 23:15:26 , however, still works. 23:15:28 In all its glory. 23:15:54 "As with the blink element, because the marquee tagged images or text are not always completely visible, it can make printing such webpages to a paper hard-copy an impossible and inefficient task where the specific printed pages where the messages on screen scroll or blink have to be printed multiple times to capture all the pieces of text that could be displayed at any one given moment in time." 23:16:03 I wonder if anyone has ever printed a page multiple times to get all the marquee. 23:16:26 "Unlike its blinking counterpart, the marquee element has several attributes that can be used to control and adjust the appearance of the marquee." 23:16:30 Imagine with attributes. 23:16:37 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:16:58 "CSS properties are used to achieve the same effect as specified in the Marquee Module Level 3, which is in the call for implementations stage.[3]" 23:17:04 http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-marquee/ 23:17:04 WHY 23:17:06 WHY DOES THIS EXIST 23:17:29 marquee is amazing 23:17:45 why wouldn't it exist 23:18:00 Yeah, but to sully it with CSS? 23:31:07 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:31:07 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:33:22 -!- cheater__ has joined. 23:42:56 nice, CSS marquees :) 23:48:34 Marquee? 23:48:36 *vomit* 23:48:47 heretic 23:49:23 I internetted in the 90s! 23:49:31 I know the horrors that can bring! 23:51:21 http://olsner.se/marquee.php 23:51:27 Too bad IRC doesn’t have marquee. :-( 23:51:55 ion: IRC is a marquee that scrolls upwards slowly 23:52:06 True 23:52:18 So is a scrollable webpage. :-P 23:53:04 see, the marquee is the basis of everything good 23:55:54 (for the morbidly curious, I also have marquee2, marquee3 and marquee4 that do slightly different things with marquees) 23:56:27 ion: other people can't scroll your webpage 23:56:47 olsner: holy shit, that's art 23:57:46 marquee2 would be more fun if they alternated directions :) 23:58:51 olsner: http://olsner.se/marquee2.php?s=100 23:59:41 olsner: i want to see these in a fucking gallery