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00:31:10 <elliott> http://techlaze.com/2012/03/richard-stallman-to-launch-his-own-fashion-line/
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01:43:13 <lambdabot> Local time for RocketJSquirrel is Sun Apr 1 21:42:41
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01:43:55 <elliott> Lemme know when it's April 2nd on Baker Island.
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01:55:38 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I can revert it if you really want me to :P
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02:01:20 <elliott> On sociological questions:
02:01:24 <elliott> <carter> as a sociological question: anyone else here observe the okcupid security vulnerability these weekend?
02:01:25 <elliott> <elliott> er, you're in #haskell
02:01:25 <elliott> <carter> it was sociological question
02:01:28 <elliott> * carter has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
02:04:45 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Apr 1 19:04:15 2012
02:04:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Is it April 2 ANYWHERE?
02:06:50 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: 'Tis done
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02:20:11 <hagb4rd> if you feel to fuel your hatred for mankind, you should watch 'black mirror', a dark dystopia (trilogy) by charlie brooks.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKYB262H8E ..well done stuff
02:20:59 <elliott> I, too, fuel my hatred for humankind by watching completely fictional works.
02:21:43 <hagb4rd> seriously.. it mirrors some dark sides of human nature
02:22:19 <elliott> The French subtitles really add a touch of class.
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02:32:43 <shachaf> elliott: You know what this channel doesn't have enough of?
02:32:51 <shachaf> The answer is sociological questions.
02:33:29 <zzo38> No, that is another question.
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03:01:37 <Sgeo> elliott, I forgot are you still on update list?
03:01:48 <Sgeo> Although lately I haven't really been doing it :/
03:02:04 <monqy> elliott is on the update list
03:05:05 <monqy> Sgeo: put shachaf on the update list
03:05:11 <monqy> shachaf: you're on the update list
03:05:20 <shachaf> Do I want to be on the update list?
03:07:59 <elliott> everyone wants to be on the update list
03:09:17 <shachaf> elliott: What's the update list good for?
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03:20:34 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 14:16:25
03:20:52 <lambdabot> Local time for Sgeo is Sun Apr 1 23:20:22
03:21:05 <Sgeo> Pulling a bizarre WIFOMy prank
03:21:07 <itidus20> i dont know if my pc time needs adjusting though
03:23:06 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 13:22:35
03:26:46 <elliott> hagb4rd: Okay, I retract my sarcasm since that actually made me watch it and it's as good as I've heard, so thanks.
03:26:50 <elliott> shachaf: It's good for nothing.
03:26:53 <elliott> shachaf: Absolutely nothing.
03:27:01 <elliott> shachaf: And now you're on it!
03:27:18 <shachaf> elliott: How do I get off the update list?
03:27:31 <shachaf> elliott: I need to wake up before noon tomorrow. :-(
03:27:58 <elliott> Oh, no. Nobody ever gets off the update list.
03:28:12 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Apr 1 20:27:42 2012
03:29:40 <itidus20> i wonder if its possible for someone else to request the time on my client
03:30:28 <shachaf> elliott: Apparently cotton candy is called "candy floss" in the UK.
03:31:12 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Tue Nov 05 13:30:41
03:31:39 <shachaf> itidus20 is a time traveler. :-(
03:32:14 <shachaf> Wait, maybe the months are just backwards in the southern hemisphere.
03:32:43 <shachaf> So the summer is still in July but July happens in February.
03:32:56 <itidus20> frankly michael j fox hasn't aged a day since 1985
03:33:17 <elliott> shachaf: Apparently "candy floss" is misspelled "cotton candy" in the US.
03:34:51 <shachaf> elliott: OH YEAH, WELL, IN HEBREW IT'S CALLED "sugar on a stick".
03:34:56 <shachaf> At least, when it's on a stick.
03:35:06 <shachaf> At least that's what I always heard it called. Apparently there are other names.
03:35:09 <Sgeo> Grah, why is it when I WANT people to guess "It's an April Fools joke" they never do
03:35:55 <shachaf> elliott: kmc wants to be on the update list.
03:37:25 <elliott> shachaf: Can I tell you a secret?
03:37:28 <elliott> shachaf: We're all on the update list.
03:37:32 <elliott> Every single person in the world.
03:37:59 <shachaf> But it has nothing to do with the update list.
03:39:25 <zzo38> The months are not backward in southern hemisphere; the seasons are backward.
03:39:54 <shachaf> elliott: I get annoyed at some things, though. Like when people end sentences with words starting with an octothorpe. #annoyingthingsdespitebeinghappy
03:40:15 <shachaf> zzo38: That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that itidus20 is a time traveler?
03:40:26 <shachaf> I thought time travel hadn't been invented yet.
03:40:35 <elliott> shachaf: I guess that's why you hate #haskell
03:41:22 <shachaf> #isawwhatyoudidthere #butieatedit
03:42:57 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:42:54
03:43:04 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:43:01
03:43:46 <zzo38> shachaf: No, I am not saying itidus20 is time traveler.
03:43:59 <lambdabot> Local time for zzo38 is 2012/04/01 20:34:29 -0700
03:44:28 <shachaf> zzo38: But itidus20's local time is Nov 05.
03:44:31 <lambdabot> Local time for Urist_McTiktalik is Sun Apr 1 21:44:02
03:44:43 <zzo38> shachaf: Then it is set incorrectly.
03:45:36 <shachaf> zzo38: I think it's more likely that it's Nov 05 in Australia.
03:47:14 <zzo38> elliott: Perhaps lambdabot wouldn't lie, but it asks the client and that client might lie or be incorrectly configured.
03:47:33 <zzo38> The sun declination means the sun will be directly overhead if you stand there. Depending on the tropical ecliptic longitude of the sun, the declination is the tropics on the world map (the Tropic of Cancer when the sun's ecliptic longitude is at 0 Cancer). The approximate dates of the sun's ecliptic longitude are given in most newspapers. When sun declination is near your hemisphere, it is summer time in your area.
03:47:45 <zzo38> So that is why the seasons backward in south hemisphere.
03:48:03 <lambdabot> no, it's really nov 05 in australia
03:48:51 <shachaf> zzo38: I think elliott just defeated your argument.
03:48:57 <zzo38> Do they use a different calendar in Australia?
03:49:28 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you trust lambdabot?
03:49:44 <zzo38> shachaf: Only if the input is correct.
03:50:04 <zzo38> If the input is correct, then the output will also be correct. Otherwise it might not be correct.
03:50:07 <shachaf> lambdabot: Is your input correct?
03:53:46 <zzo38> Do they use a different calendar in Australia?
03:54:10 <kmc> it's upside down
03:55:25 <zzo38> Which city does itidus20 live?
03:55:54 <zzo38> No, I connect it says, itidus20, TIME message is Apr 2
03:56:11 <zzo38> elliott: O, I thought you meant the *country* Australia. Sorry
03:58:09 <zzo38> When I send the TIME request to itidus20, using direct or lambdabot, it asys is Apr 2. So why did you say is Nov 5?
03:59:27 <zzo38> Therefore I don't believe you
03:59:35 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 13:59:02
03:59:49 <shachaf> itidus20: Did you move out of Australia since the last time I asked?!
04:00:23 <zzo38> You must have a fast airplane/boat/teleporter/whatever to move out of Australia that fast.
04:01:43 <zzo38> But still, I doubt that is the reason. Either you mixed up lambdabot to tell you the wrong answer or itidus20 set the time incorrectly on their computer to confuse you and then fixed it afterward.
04:02:29 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:02:26
04:02:29 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:03:12
04:02:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe itidus20 *is* a time traveler.
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04:04:00 <shachaf> elliott: Cale will rue the day when he allowed this to happen. :-(
04:04:53 <elliott> (I even have a Careers.SO account! I don't want a career.)
04:05:03 <shachaf> I have a Careers.SO account!
04:05:10 <lambdabot> If multiple people are using lambdabot to @msg, it's harder to point the finger at any one of them.
04:05:12 <shachaf> I'm not sure how that happened.
04:05:33 <elliott> shachaf: It's an "exclusive" "invite-only" service, which I think means they automatically invite pretty much anyone who gets an SO account.
04:05:34 <oklofok> hard to type with my guitar hogging my hands
04:05:40 <lambdabot> i'm elliott, and i approve of this message
04:05:52 <shachaf> elliott: I got invited by SO user #13!
04:06:09 <elliott> shachaf: Jeff Atwood! I had no idea you were such good friends!
04:06:18 <oklofok> i went to work at like 1 am and proved such awesome things that i had to come home to chill out for a bit
04:07:55 * shachaf points the finger at elliott.
04:08:00 <elliott> No, shachaf sent that last one.
04:08:34 <elliott> shachaf: Well, I didn't send that last one.
04:08:40 <elliott> It was either you, or... someone else.
04:09:26 <elliott> I want to know all the admin commands. :(
04:10:10 <elliott> This seems to be a rare consequence of a non-atomic process. Making the data routines atomic would obviously slow the site way down, so this glitch (while very improbable) is likely to forever stay a potential occurrence.
04:10:31 <elliott> Okay, I'm not using @msg any more.
04:11:32 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:11:29
04:14:55 <elliott> monqy: Did you know I can make lambdabot quit from IRC?
04:15:17 <zzo38> Well, at least you didn't do it permanently.
04:15:18 <monqy> I can make lambdabot
04:15:25 <monqy> evaluate haskell expressions
04:16:32 <shachaf> elliott: You can't even make lambdabot flush its state.
04:18:12 <shachaf> elliott: I'm secretly a cache line.
04:18:53 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:18:49
04:20:23 <shachaf> lambdabot: elliott is being rude to me in /msg
04:21:18 * lambdabot clobbers shachaf with an untyped language
04:22:23 <itidus20> L = {s,d,f} R = {j,k,l} RRLRLLLRRL .. therefore klfjsdfklf is highly random
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04:57:18 <itidus21> elliott typed an even distribution of left hand and right hand characters in his deuidewhudhweuidhweuid
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05:00:31 <itidus21> 2 instances of R followed by R, 3 instances of R followed by L, 2 instances of L followed by R, 2 instances of L followed by L
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07:18:58 <oerjan> <itidus20> its called fairy floss here <-- only the australians are willing to admit to the grim procedure whereby it is produced.
07:21:28 <oerjan> <elliott> shachaf: We're all on the update list. <-- so that's what the matrix of solidity _is_
07:22:20 <pikhq_> oerjan: nonono. Only Australians use that particular production method.
07:22:48 <pikhq_> Americans prefer to use fairies as slave labor to work the cotton fields.
07:23:06 <pikhq_> Much more economically efficient. :)
07:31:42 <fizzie> oerjan: My mother-in-law told us we should always carry our own toilet paper because Norwegians are so miserly, they steal the toilet paper from public restrooms. Y/N?
07:32:36 <oerjan> fizzie: she said that yesterday, right?
07:34:15 <oerjan> i haven't had that particular problem, anyway. now if the personnel could only refill promptly...
07:35:04 <oerjan> (actually they _usually_ do.)
07:36:04 <oerjan> i suppose you might be thinking of roadside stop stuff though... i haven't used those much.
07:36:36 <oerjan> and being remote they might be vulnerable to _both_ sloppy refilling and vandals.
07:37:08 <oerjan> in lethal combination.
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07:39:44 <oerjan> <itidus21> elliott typed an even distribution of left hand and right hand characters in his deuidewhudhweuidhweuid <-- btw a _too_ even distribution can itself be a sign of nonrandomness.
07:40:33 * itidus21 sits and eats the fairy floss.
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07:50:44 <nortti> elliott: Did you really use WorldWideWeb? On NeXT computer?
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08:27:32 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus21 is Mon Nov 19 08:05:02
08:33:34 <lambdabot> Local time for pikhq_ is Mon Apr 2 02:33:04 2012
08:34:13 <itidus21> meh.. hard to adjust time based on javascript because it adapts itself to the system time
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09:39:21 <zzo38> traverseBox :: Applicative f => (Node -> f Node) -> x -> f Node;
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10:27:14 <Sgeo> Attention Facebook: Making things that change even when you don't click Accept or Ok or equivalent is BAD UI design
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10:29:15 <nortti> noteto self: check which application is active before you press cmd-q
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11:09:44 <nortti> Kinda funny how X11.app doesn't automatically get focus even if I click one of X11 windows
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11:26:22 <Taneb|Hovercraft> I think the main feature a social network needs to have is needs to be successful to be successful
11:29:02 <Taneb|Hovercraft> On another note, to my knowledge there are 3 esolangs with heavy use of graphs
11:36:34 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Hungary's president has resigned over allegations of plagarism
11:39:14 <oklofok> i proved something awesome, and it was known to this one dude already :(
11:39:36 <oklofok> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
11:40:43 <oklofok> a mathematician would never plagiarise
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11:42:01 <Slereah_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQHaGhC7C2E
11:44:46 <Slereah_> "On analytical algebraic topology of locally euclidean metrizations of infinitely differential riemannian manifolds"
11:47:44 <oklofok> well the russians are a different story
11:48:24 <oklofok> i've heard crazy stories about russian mathematicians
11:48:52 <oklofok> one russian who talked at our uni did a long speech about how he discovered something independently from someone else
11:49:21 <oklofok> another russian lamented for ages about this russian guy who published case 2 of something, and claimed case n follows similarly.
11:49:51 <oklofok> and he promised to write a journal paper as soon as possible, so people aren't really touching the problem.
11:49:56 <oklofok> meanwhile, he's working on different things
11:51:35 <oklofok> i would probably not publish a paper if someone told me they'd already proved those results
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12:04:53 <graue> hello all you smiling people
12:06:39 <graue> i have an esowiki trivia question
12:07:01 <graue> where does "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." come from, or what does it mean y'all
12:07:31 <graue> the sentence does not really mean anything to me
12:07:38 <graue> you could say it's a bit........... esoteric
12:08:55 <oklofok> a crazy guy came here and said things, that was one of them.
12:09:21 <oklofok> for obvious reasons, everyone fell in love with it.
12:13:14 <Taneb|Hovercraft> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20377
12:15:09 <nortti> so that is where that quote came from
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12:37:54 <itidus21> oklofok: the same problem happens with video game rom translation projects
12:38:29 <itidus21> someone soaks up all the fame and attention by announcing a W.I.P. translation but then gets venemous when questioned about it..
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12:38:47 <itidus21> "leave him alone man... if you don't like it do it yourself"
12:39:27 <itidus21> oh.. samurai shodown rpg... when will someone translate you so the masses can have closure
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13:17:48 <Deewiant> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsOXvQn3JuE
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13:34:52 <ion> deewiant: Hah
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14:04:14 <nortti> elliott: Did you really use WorldWideWeb on NeXT computer?
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14:07:15 <elliott> I tried to use WorldWideWeb on a non-NeXT computer once.
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14:11:48 <itidus21> random ponderance coming, perhaps loosely related
14:13:27 <itidus21> i was reading about the history of books on wiki, and it occured to me that screens/displays/monitors/tvs/projectors will eventually replace the book with a single page which can automatically change it's state to that of any page
14:14:41 <itidus21> im not sure where i am drawing the line though
14:15:15 <itidus21> and im sure i will fail to in the end..
14:15:51 <itidus21> i guess the pages of the book is really stored in a ram
14:17:45 <fizzie> I don't have anything with an e-ink screen. :/ I'd kinda like to see one, once.
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14:18:15 <itidus21> i find the greatest excitement comes from concluding upon a fallacy
14:18:48 <itidus21> since it is like temporarily living in a strange new world where the fallacy is not a fallacy
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14:21:49 <elliott> fizzie: No ebooks in Finland, as they say.
14:22:22 <Deewiant> I think I saw someone on the bus with one once.
14:22:42 <fizzie> I think I saw someone one the bus, too, but couldn't be entirely sure it was e-inky.
14:22:54 <fizzie> An e-reader it anyway was.
14:23:25 <elliott> Deewiant: fizzie: You must have been hallucinating.
14:23:41 <asiekierka> Onyx Boox i62, the thing i like most about it is how it supports anything you throw at it, supports full webkit (JS/canvas demos, too!) and comes with linux rooted out of the box
14:23:57 <asiekierka> the thing i hate about it is that compiling the SDK right is probably only a rumour
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14:24:27 <RocketJSquirrel> But the company's out of business, 'cuz you don't make money selling things that don't suck.
14:24:41 <asiekierka> some company already ported a Mono app to it
14:28:10 <itidus21> It's more complex than I thought. The book is now an application of text, and text is in 2 parts: the data and the presentation of the data.
14:31:59 <itidus21> once they hook up electronics to your optic nerves, a hacker can become invisible literally
14:43:06 <itidus21> sorry kinda stopped the room in tracks
14:50:02 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: NO BREATHETIHING????
14:53:40 <elliott> "Breathetihing" is a word now?
14:54:10 -!- MoALTz has joined.
14:56:55 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Asoidjfgk.
15:02:50 <elliott> Should we start, like... "welcoming" new people?
15:03:19 <elliott> Taneb|Hovercraft: I checked that 202.156.*.* hadn't accessed the signup page today, don't worry :P
15:06:29 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N Index.php; 15:02 . . (+3,491) . . Dannybury (Talk | contribs | block) (Created page with "It is tremendous entertaining and genuinely excellent if you have a way with words and spelling. If you are involved obtain the scrabble cost-free obtain for cellular telephon...")
15:07:36 <elliott> I TRUSTED YOU, DANNUYBURY!!!!!
15:08:01 <elliott> "A single of the wonderful characteristics of truck video games are their one of a kind appears. The vans are created with a assortment of unconventional, entertaining, excellent and futuristic appearances. The style of the vans showcase their exclusive skills, distinctive powers and all round efficiency capabilities."
15:08:07 <elliott> OK, this has to be the best spam we've gotten in a while though :P
15:08:23 <elliott> "They can then beam with satisfaction when the trucker guardian returns residence on subsequent visits and they are equipped to proudly display just how significantly their expertise have enhanced. The broad wide variety of on the web truck game titles available can easily preserve drivers of all amounts intrigued. Just about every game is exclusive and supplies a wide variety of challenges for drivers. Scrabble mobile phone sport is now a cost-f
15:08:23 <elliott> ree down load as properly. It is not tricky to participate in, but can be sufficient of a problem to retain your fascination peaked. This sport normally takes two to four players making an attempt to rating points by forming words onto a board in Need Cash Now."
15:27:45 <nortti> "Linux users interface directly with the CPU via telepathy, but if they're tired, they can use the same UNIX scripting support Mac users have."
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16:03:57 <elliott> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/127878/sending-large-files-in-c-using-sockets
16:06:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Yes, the include headers elevated it to a work of art, rather than just a particularly amusing trainwreck.
16:06:25 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: (Never mind the fact that it's on the site for discussion about Stack Overflow, rather than Stack Overflow itself.)
16:07:19 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wwf1UVdFo
16:07:23 <itidus21> closed as off topic by lunboks, Tim Stone, The Establishment, balpha♦ 24 secs ago
16:10:47 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's good webserver log analytics software>
16:11:14 <elliott> I want to find out what the most popular URLs starting with /wiki/ requested by non-bots are.
16:11:22 <elliott> (With multiple visits from the same IP not counting)
16:13:19 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: If there isn't anything nice for it I'll just use Perl :P
16:14:37 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Main problem is I'll have to filter out all the bot user agents myself >_>
16:15:23 <elliott> I think there are like twice as many bots as there are search engines.
16:16:20 <fizzie> Awstats and Analog are the two statistics things I've used.
16:16:26 <fizzie> I doubt either is especially nice.
16:16:40 <elliott> Isn't awstats the one with five billion security holes?
16:17:21 <elliott> Seems like analog's website is down.
16:17:29 <elliott> "Analog has not been officially updated since the version 6.0 release in December 2004. The original author moved on to commercial traffic analysis. Updates to Analog continued informally by its user community up until the end of 2009 on the official mailing list. Currently the only formally compiled updated redistributable of Analog is that of Analog C:Amie Edition, which has focused on fixing issues in Analog's XML DTD and on adding new operati
16:17:29 <elliott> ng system and web browser detection to the original code branch."
16:27:47 <RocketJSquirrel> How can a log stats analyzer have security vulnerabilities?
16:30:04 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: awstats is a CGI script thing, I think.
16:30:10 <elliott> With password protection and so on.
16:30:17 <elliott> I understand it's... not very well-written.
16:30:31 <elliott> I mean, obviously I can just hide it behind nginx HTTP auth, but it's still a pain.
16:31:25 <elliott> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=awstats
16:31:35 <elliott> 22 CVEs for a web log analysis tool. Not good.
16:36:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Is there a Perl module I can load to get it to automagically work when I open a file ending in ".gz"?
16:37:05 <elliott> I want zperl. (Like zgrep.)
16:37:18 <elliott> If not RocketJSquirrel, maybe FIZZIE knows????
16:48:55 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9974502/paypal-api-through-zend-framework
16:52:43 <fizzie> I run awstats in an offline mode.
16:52:57 <fizzie> Since it looked far too messy to run as a CGI.
16:53:40 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, how does that work?
16:53:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I'm cooler than the musl guy, right?
16:54:13 <fizzie> It's got some sort of "--year X" or "--month Y" command-line flags that generate a static page. It wasn't completely clear how to set it up though.
16:54:49 <fizzie> And there's a gzip IO layer in Perl, but I don't know offhand something that'd auto-apparate based on filename.
16:55:02 <elliott> Well, I don't need the filename thing per se.
16:55:09 <elliott> It's just that access.log isn't gzipped while access.log.47.gz is.
16:57:07 <fizzie> PerlIO::gzip seems to have an "autopop" mode.
16:57:27 <fizzie> "Potentially dangerous. If the first two bytes match the gzip header "\x1f\x8b" then a gzip header is assumed (and checked) else the layer is silently popped. This results in gzip files being transparently decompressed, other files being treated normally. Of course, this has sides effects such as File::Copy becoming gunzip, and File::Compare comparing the uncompressed contents of files."
16:58:23 <elliott> fizzie: Well, the context would be using it with Perl's -n mode.
16:58:29 <elliott> With a bunch of filenames on the command-line.
17:00:11 <fizzie> Mhrm. Well, I don't know what would be the proper magic to make that happen when it's internally opening the files.
17:00:13 <elliott> I am a beginner of Haskell. I am trying out the happy.
17:00:28 <elliott> fizzie: Doesn't it just use the Perl open()? I guess maybe not.
17:01:51 <elliott> I suppose I might write a little Haskell module to parse the log lines.
17:01:53 -!- pikhq has joined.
17:01:57 <elliott> They aren't very regexpable.
17:02:22 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:06:00 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that even though at least one person here is a Facebook friend, some details of my life are not visible to this channel at all
17:07:49 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, the Debian has the awstats.
17:08:52 <elliott> -bash: awstats: command not found
17:13:48 <elliott> How do you list the files in a Debian package again?
17:14:51 -!- boily has joined.
17:14:54 <fizzie> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/awstats.pl is the script.
17:16:01 <fizzie> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/awstats.pl -config=$cfg -update and then ... -year=X -month=Z -output -staticlinks are what my scripts call.
17:17:09 <fizzie> Oh, and then -year=X -month=Z -output=W -staticlinks for W in a long list of report page types.
17:17:29 <fizzie> It's not really very nice to use "offline" like that.
17:18:31 <fizzie> Though I think /usr/share/doc/awstats/examples/ has some model scripts too.
17:19:04 <fizzie> (The -update step is the one that reads all new logs; the rest output HTML to stdout.)
17:20:01 <fizzie> Oh, and /usr/share/awstats/tools/ has some pre-made "build static pages" script.
17:20:33 <fizzie> That was somehow deficient, I think. Though maybe I was just NIHhing.
17:21:01 <elliott> I'm... not convinced this is better than writing my own thing.
17:22:03 <elliott> How come there's no fancy Web 2.0 log analyser with fancy searching and AJAX and pretty graphs and all that? They all seem to use those silly javascript web bugs.
17:23:43 <olsner> "the web scale web log webalyzer"
17:24:47 <olsner> hmm, this is a shame, adding program size to the fitness makes it evolve only boring programs
17:25:05 <elliott> http://piwik.org/ -- see, this is nice, if only it didn't use a bug.
17:25:08 <elliott> olsner: What're you evolving?
17:25:33 <olsner> elliott: kuskelar a clatsop man, http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
17:26:39 <elliott> olsner: Well that thing's terrible.
17:27:11 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Have you considered failing all programs with negative points (not score)?
17:27:27 <elliott> They're almost always things that just aren't any good on the current hill and win only because the scoring system is weird.
17:27:57 <olsner> it's probably better than what I would achieve in one night of jousting though :)
17:29:00 <elliott> olsner: Have you seen the really gigantic programs?
17:29:36 <olsner> yeah, one or two of them
17:29:49 <elliott> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust includes its generator script ;)
17:29:56 <elliott> (As does http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/Gregor_furry_furry_leather_discipline_girls.bfjoust)
17:30:04 <olsner> that was slightly boggling yes
17:31:00 * elliott wants to see the programs that generated http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_anticipation.bfjoust and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust
17:32:45 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/AaHT
17:33:09 <ais523> the funny thing about anticipation is, it'd be trivial to write a version that isn't sensitive to details of the opposing programs
17:33:28 <ais523> but then it'd be too long for the interpreter, so instead I had to tweak constants to use only the lines that actually mattered against programs on the hill
17:38:25 <elliott> ais523: wow, that's surprisingly short
17:38:46 <elliott> "Given that a better interpreter could allow for all values"
17:38:48 <ais523> the program itself is very simple and repetitive, just doesn't compress well because the numbers are different each time
17:38:53 <elliott> ais523: would this require extending the language with more macro facilities?
17:38:57 <ais523> did you not notice that anticipation is basically the same line over and over again
17:39:00 <elliott> or is chainlance or whatever it was just too limited?
17:39:11 <ais523> elliott: oh, that'd help more, but the actual problem was just the restriction on program size
17:39:16 <elliott> and sort of, but not really, since it's very long
17:39:20 <elliott> ais523: how big would it be without the special-casing?
17:39:31 <elliott> (also, would cpp be enough to provide the necessary macro facilities?)
17:39:53 <ais523> around 5 times as long, and only if you can get it to count in decimal
17:40:15 <ais523> (which I don't think you can do without a crazy state machine; it can evaluate integer expressions, but not substitute their results into the generated code)
17:40:21 <elliott> ais523: but, I mean, you could use cpp for the ()* and ()% parts too
17:40:28 <elliott> just assume that it uses an incremental cpp interpreter of some kind
17:41:05 <ais523> anyway, I consider BF Joust pretty much broken by now, I don't think standard defensive programs can possibly win against slowpoke's clear loop, and it's possible to adjust it to beat anticipation too
17:41:40 <elliott> that's not what you said a while ago
17:41:43 <ais523> specifically, timer clear beats regular locks, the structure of its loop beats both triplocks and shudder-style programs, and it could be adapted to beat anticipation simply by giving a fallback strategy
17:42:01 <ais523> I discovered that you could change timer clears to beat anticipations too a while back
17:42:07 * elliott thinks there's a *lot* more possibilities for defence programs than the "standard" style
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17:42:18 <elliott> it's a much more varied field than attack, by a huge margin
17:42:57 <elliott> there's lots of defence programs that start attacking if they figure the opponent is defending
17:43:10 <elliott> are there any attacking programs that start defending if they think the opponent is coming to attack them?
17:43:24 <elliott> obviously that'll require quite a slow rush, but still
17:45:12 <ais523> elliott: I know that waterfall switches from a complicated defence strategy to a much simpler one if it notices that its early decoys have the wrong values
17:45:41 <ais523> and I'm pretty sure someone else had an attack program that changed if it had early decoys disrupted, although it may have been to a turtle rather than a defence program
17:46:11 <elliott> has anyone made a program that will switch strategies more than once?
17:46:23 <elliott> i.e. that'll actually bounce back multiple times if it thinks the other program is changing _its_ behaviour
17:46:46 <ais523> I don't think that makes sense, once you're in an attack race switching isn't going to help
17:46:57 <ais523> and if you're both defending it doesn't matter what you do
17:47:07 <elliott> ais523: yes, but consider if the other program is switching strategies itself
17:47:30 <elliott> e.g., it waits until the other defence program gives up, concludes it's defending and starts rushing
17:47:38 <elliott> and then it attacks while the other program is blindly rushing
17:47:53 <ais523> elliott: well, the problem is that that's just changing once
17:47:54 <elliott> if the other program could change behaviour back to defending while it's rushing, it could prevent that
17:48:04 <elliott> which would be two changes
17:48:38 <ais523> anyway, the point is, that defence programs that start attacking after a while, do so with a strategy that can't easily be defended against
17:48:42 <ais523> like five- or seven-cycle clear
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17:49:47 <elliott> ok, consider a program A, when faced against a defence program B, it just sits there waiting, then B concludes that A must be defence program and starts fast-rushing; A takes this opportunity to rush B, which is no longer defending and just blind-rushing
17:50:10 <elliott> if B rushed a little slower to get the opportunity to know that _it's_ being counter-rushed, it could run back to defend (which would be 2 mode changes)
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17:50:23 <ais523> oh, that's really bad play from both programs
17:50:42 <ais523> attacking is the worst thing you can do if you detect that you're being blindly rushed, unless you happen to be closer to the opponent's flag than they are to yours at the time
17:51:13 <ais523> and B's subsequent retreat would just be throwing away the chance to win for a chance at maybe safeguarding its flag, and it'd have to interrupt its own rush to check
17:51:17 <elliott> ais523: well, the idea is that A would wait near to B's flag
17:51:26 <elliott> so it could be notified of the rush early, and get to B's flag quickly
17:51:28 <ais523> elliott: if it knew where B's flag /was/, it could just clear it
17:51:35 <ais523> this is the whole problem with BF Joust, right?
17:51:42 <elliott> ais523: yes, but the point is that B is defending...
17:51:46 <elliott> so A doesn't want to go near until B is gone
17:52:12 <ais523> elliott: yes; but how can A figure out where to wait?
17:52:21 <ais523> note that if it waits near B's flag, it can't figure out that B has gone
17:52:25 <ais523> because B is unlikely to leave a trail
17:52:42 <ais523> A would have to be at least 9 spaces away from B's flag, because B is going to be using the rule of 9
17:52:55 <ais523> and to guarantee /that/, it has to be on its own flag
17:54:20 <elliott> it could always sacrifice lower tape lengths
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17:55:14 <ais523> doesn't help, you'd need to sacrifice more than half of them to be able to be closer to the opponent's flag than they are when you detect them attacking
17:55:38 <elliott> well, what about a program that works by magic and has no possible objections to its strategy?
17:56:09 <ais523> I do not consider this a valid argument :)
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17:56:43 <HackEgo> teD_thE_PoTHead: Welcome to the international hub for esotericism and the occult! For more information, check out our wiki: http://www.demonicpedia.com/
17:56:44 <elliott> we haven't de-april foolsed that yet
17:56:54 <elliott> teD_thE_PoTHead: hi, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
17:57:08 <elliott> `pastlog Welcome to the international hub
17:57:22 <HackEgo> 2011-12-09.txt:23:10:56: <HackEgo> espero: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
17:57:27 <elliott> `run echo 'Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page' >wisdom/welcome
17:57:40 <HackEgo> teD_thE_PoTHead: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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18:24:09 <elliott> (User creation log); 18:23 . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block) New user account
18:24:17 <elliott> I wonder if this one is a spammer too. Hopefully not.
18:24:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:24:45 <elliott> Well, no spammer would impersonate Opera users.
18:24:57 <elliott> olsner: HEAR THAT, OPERA USER?
18:25:45 <elliott> ais523: do we subst {{unsigned}} or not?
18:26:07 * oerjan concludes that his theory of roman numeral look-and-say implies all sequences have an asymptotic growth rate given by the unique real solution to x^19 = x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1.
18:26:16 <ais523> I don't think it matters
18:26:22 <ais523> probably yes, but I don't really care
18:26:33 <elliott> there's only two substituted uses of it
18:26:36 <elliott> so I'll de-subst them, I suppose
18:26:51 <elliott> hey, I can made {{unsigned}} work with a history line
18:26:55 <elliott> without requiring the | divider
18:27:57 <oerjan> although i still have to correct the timezone :(
18:28:10 -!- MoALTz has joined.
18:28:43 <elliott> oerjan: I just set the wiki to UTC
18:28:56 <elliott> no reason for comments and recent changes to be in different timezones
18:29:21 * oerjan elliott may have a point
18:34:29 <elliott> ais523: don't spoil the answer for me, btw
18:35:56 <elliott> ais523: I'm trying to do some template trickery I know is possible, but not how
18:35:59 <elliott> but I want to figure it out myself
18:37:54 <Sgeo> "This type of wallhack is rampant. Even for the most popular of games."
18:38:10 <elliott> ais523: (it's related to substitution)
18:38:12 <Sgeo> NO SHIT SHERLOCK OF COURSE THERE ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE MODIFICATIONS OF MORE POPULAR GAMES
18:38:43 <ais523> Sgeo: I think the implication is that the developers of popular games have more motivation to stop cheating
18:39:19 <cheater> Sgeo: fifa 2010 vs nethack
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18:40:18 * oerjan notes wolfram alpha factorizes x^2 - x + 1 out of that polynomial
18:40:52 <oerjan> and has that annoying "register to copy and paste" that has been mentioned before
18:41:29 <elliott> * oerjan concludes that his theory of roman numeral look-and-say implies all sequences have an asymptotic growth rate given by the unique real solution to x^19 = x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1.
18:41:46 <oerjan> for roman numeral look-and-say, yes
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18:44:02 <elliott> oerjan: hands off the new language, that wikifying is _mine_
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18:48:26 <oerjan> > iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:48:27 <lambdabot> [1.1,1.0985457517719988,1.0981920311715194,1.0981060808817724,1.09808520098...
18:48:48 <oerjan> > drop 10 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:48:49 <lambdabot> [1.098078502947138,1.0980785019051384,1.0980785016520256,1.0980785015905417...
18:49:03 <oerjan> > drop 20 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:49:04 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708157,1.098078501570815,1.0980785015708148,1.0980785015708145...
18:49:06 <elliott> perl -pe 's/<br \/>//; s/-/<\/code> || /; s/^/|-\n| <code>/'
18:50:01 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/ProgFk WIKIF'YYYD
18:50:28 <elliott> ais523: what's the trick to creating a template that behaves specially when substed?
18:50:43 <ais523> oh, I don't think there is one
18:50:56 <elliott> all the deletion templates yell at you if you do that, f.e.
18:51:12 <elliott> and I know there's a special trick based on it you can do that makes substing a template actually turn into a non-substed transclusion
18:51:13 <oerjan> > drop 50 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:51:14 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.098078501570814...
18:51:19 <elliott> which is cute enough that I want to know how it works
18:51:28 <ais523> you could use a template like {{!}}, I guess, that generates a | when substed
18:51:34 <ais523> and makes it change the parameres to another call
18:51:57 <elliott> ais523: yes, unfortunately #if and #ifeq don't seem to work properly, I guess you need the equivalent of qif
18:53:10 <ion> > map snd . dropWhile ((>= 1e-12) . uncurry (-)) . (zip <*> tail) . iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) $ 1.1
18:53:12 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015710974,1.0980785015708834,1.0980785015708314,1.098078501570818...
18:53:32 <ion> > map snd . dropWhile ((>= 1e-24) . uncurry (-)) . (zip <*> tail) . iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) $ 1.1
18:53:33 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.098078501570814...
18:54:18 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N DBFV!; 18:50 . . (+1,320) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block) (DBFV! is a language by David Catt where each line is a separate function.)
18:54:28 * Sgeo wonders if MC will work on this machine
18:54:28 <elliott> ais523: oh dear, remember Pegasus adding a billion languages in three minutes?
18:54:36 <elliott> I can only wikify so fast...
18:57:53 <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Parnassus might jog your memory
18:58:05 <elliott> and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Libertas
18:58:36 <elliott> hmm, our style guide is kind of crazy
18:58:39 <elliott> "Only use bold for the title of an article, and only the first time it appears."
18:59:49 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N RunR; 18:59 . . (+2,683) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block) (RunR is a language by David Catt where all instructions are in a two dimensional space known as "The Grid".)
19:00:18 * elliott wikifies then leaves an introduction message
19:00:20 <ion> ineiros: Well spoken.
19:02:38 <elliott> ais523: how do you uppercase a matched group in a regex substitution?
19:04:35 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Language_list&curid=960&diff=31702&oldid=31456
19:04:45 <elliott> oerjan: you get to teach another person the alphabet :)
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19:13:47 <Sgeo> elliott, they typoed the language name
19:14:21 <elliott> nortti: HackEgo does funny business to stop you doing that.
19:14:23 <oerjan> `run echo 'lambdabot: @time'
19:14:25 <elliott> Sgeo: (Are we being watched???)
19:14:42 <elliott> ok one second lemme whip up a quick botloop
19:14:59 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:06 <oerjan> it's _conceivable_ someone fixed that loophole...
19:15:07 <elliott> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:15:15 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:20 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:24 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:28 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:32 <elliott> Come on, ramp up before it gets killed.
19:15:32 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:36 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:58 * oerjan assumes elliott knows how to stop the loop
19:16:01 <elliott> This is the least dramatic botloop ever.
19:16:13 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:18 <elliott> I refuse to do it until it rises above the pace of a slow crawl :P
19:16:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:32 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:35 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:35 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:43 <elliott> Just savouring the flavour and textures.
19:16:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:54 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:56 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:00 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:09 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop nowhere
19:17:14 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:17 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:33 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:17:40 <lambdabot> I know nothing about asdlasldjkasdasd.
19:17:45 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:17:50 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `lambdabotloop': No such file or directory
19:18:06 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:18:09 <elliott> Definitely not the best botloop I've seen.
19:18:12 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:18:14 <elliott> Though the after-effects are amusing.
19:18:21 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:24 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:31 <elliott> HackEgo really wants to know about hackegoloop.
19:18:44 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:19:16 <elliott> oerjan: It has to be done one more time.
19:19:49 <lambdabot> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:19:57 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:20:02 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:06 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:09 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:11 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:15 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:19 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:29 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:33 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:35 <elliott> I think I just invented bot teledildonics.
19:20:37 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:40 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:20:50 <Sgeo> what is hackegoloop?
19:21:04 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:21:07 * oerjan wonders what was self-creating about that
19:21:09 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:21:13 <elliott> <lambdabot> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:21:14 <elliott> <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:21:44 <elliott> (lambdabot admins can cause lambdabot to send messages.)
19:22:00 <elliott> (But I'd prefer it if you just assumed lambdabot decided to do that of its own accord.)
19:22:52 <nortti> `run echo '`car hackegoloop' > hackegoloop
19:23:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: car: not found
19:23:04 <elliott> oerjan: Did you know I can cause lambdabot to quit from IRC?
19:23:28 <nortti> `run echo '`cat hackegoloop' > hackegoloop
19:23:56 <ion> Did you know I can cause ion to quit from IRC?
19:24:04 <ion> Oh, wait. I can’t, actually. He’s addicted.
19:24:12 <elliott> (If I hadn't added that X...)
19:24:38 <oerjan> elliott: you have mentioned
19:24:56 <elliott> shachaf: I just decided to deadmin you.
19:26:06 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9981756/missing-dates-programfrom-text-file
19:26:08 <elliott> plz keep in mind the leap years
19:26:54 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `@1333333337'
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19:30:31 <HackEgo> Mon Apr 2 02:22:17 UTC 2012
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19:32:35 <elliott> oerjan: i'm gaining on your editcount >:D
19:34:04 <elliott> including deleted revisions:
19:34:34 <oerjan> just as well to get it over with.
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19:36:27 <elliott> ais523: hey, surely there's a MediaWiki extension for marking names as to be displayed in lowercase?
19:36:49 <ais523> perhaps, I guess you can check
19:37:12 <elliott> hmm, I did, and they all seem to involve hideous source mods; I would think you could simply monkeypatch a method of the User class
19:37:16 <elliott> assuming PHP can do monkeypatching
19:37:53 <elliott> oh, I could even make it use the display title of their user page, appropriately scrubbed, to determine the preferred capitalisation
19:38:46 <elliott> (except then ais523 would have to lose his user page gag for it to work :))
19:39:24 <ais523> it's not /that/ good a gag
19:40:00 <elliott> actually, I suppose it'd be technically incorrect if we got that, since the technical limitations would be removed
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19:43:53 <elliott> ais523: do you want to hear a joke?
19:44:04 <ais523> not particularly, I guess
19:44:07 <ais523> but you're probably going to tell it anyway
19:44:30 <elliott> Do you want to hear a secret? None of my jokes are actually jokes.
19:45:03 <shachaf> elliott: Where does a general keep his armies?
19:46:21 <shachaf> That's probably the best joke.
19:49:06 <shachaf> <elliott> But it's not a very good joke. Hence there are no good jokes.
19:50:11 <shachaf> I like all the words mathematicians have invented that all mean "therefore".
19:50:24 <shachaf> Probably to make some long proofs less boring or something.
19:51:17 <shachaf> hence thence whence therefore thus so implies ergo then
19:51:34 <lambdabot> <shachaf> @msg #esoteric But it's not a very good joke. Hence there are no good jokes.
19:51:53 <olsner> hmm, I wonder if there's a counterpart of summa summarum in english?
19:51:56 <elliott> Is that a high enough score?
19:52:18 <olsner> hmm... that should be a statement about me wondering, not a question
19:52:40 -!- zzo38 has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:52:46 <oerjan> yeah, why would you end a non-question with a question mark.
19:53:11 <zzo38> Perhaps the topic message is still not overfull
19:53:24 <oerjan> olsner: well stop that?
19:53:36 <olsner> oerjan: do you want me to stop.
19:54:29 <shachaf> As Magical Mr. Mistoffelees!
19:54:44 <zzo38> (Yes, both Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe and Richard Feynman were here while you weren't looking)
19:54:54 <elliott> <shachaf> elliott: 4 what?
19:55:04 <elliott> shachaf: Synonyms of "therefore" in your list that I've used in SO answers.
19:55:35 <shachaf> You'll never make it in the real mathematics world, kid.
19:55:57 <oerjan> accordingly, we may conclude there are always more synonyms.
19:56:07 -!- zzo38 has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Richard Feynman was also here | Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:56:30 <shachaf> zzo38: Richard Feynman was not here.
19:56:31 -!- oerjan has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Richard Feynman was also here | Zombie Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:57:05 <shachaf> elliott: That list was incomplete, of course.
19:57:25 <shachaf> accordingly consequently wherefore
19:57:39 <elliott> I've used "Accordingly" too, I think.
19:58:10 <zzo38> (But neither was the fictional character Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe; and anyways the topic message can contain these kind of strange things even if not true about Feynman not being in here today)
19:58:37 <shachaf> olsner: Now you're stretching it.
19:58:46 <shachaf> By the way, olsner = oerjan, right?
19:58:59 <olsner> facets of the scandinavian hivemind
19:59:06 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 20:59:02
19:59:10 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 20:59:07
19:59:29 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bid dice elite id let list time
20:00:17 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Mon Apr 2 21:59:43 2012
20:00:34 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: fact faq free time
20:01:06 <shachaf> elliott: You're a terrible admin.
20:01:20 <zzo38> @admin - lambdabot
20:01:22 <olsner> is elliott an admin of the lambdabot.
20:01:54 <elliott> Despite appearances, shachaf isn't.
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20:03:30 <zzo38> However, you should not set my name to admin (you didn't; because of a space; but nevertheless) because I do not have nick protection set on my account
20:03:40 <elliott> shachaf: Please stop that.
20:03:58 <shachaf> zzo38: At this point I doubt that'll make much difference.
20:04:01 <elliott> zzo38: Neither do most of the other admins, which is why shachaf keeps using admin commands.
20:04:37 <shachaf> zzo38: You should have nick protection set on your account.
20:05:08 <shachaf> zzo38: What if some really weird person starts pretending to be you?
20:05:30 <olsner> I think it'd be quite obvious if he suddenly became that normal
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20:07:45 <elliott> "That's all well and good Chris, but shouldn't you have written that site in Happstack?" -- Michael Snoyman
20:07:53 <zzo38> If I ever need to become administration of lambdabot or anything like that I will set nick protection; but currently I have no need to be such administrations and so on, so I will just leave it how it is
20:08:38 <elliott> zzo38: Nick protection wouldn't help, anyway.
20:08:40 <elliott> It only kicks in after 30s.
20:08:43 -!- nortti has joined.
20:08:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Stealing zzo38's nick would be like a Turing test. Can YOU behave like zzo?
20:08:44 <elliott> 30s is quite enough time to type "@admin + shachaf".
20:09:07 <shachaf> elliott: Are you able to send /msgs before it kicks in?
20:09:19 <shachaf> RocketJSquirrel: That sounds like a fun game.
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20:09:26 <shachaf> zzo38: Teach me how to be like you.
20:09:29 <elliott> shachaf: You can send @admin + in public...
20:09:36 <nortti> dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.+Linux+on+8bit
20:09:47 <oerjan> Some people might be able to behave like zzo if they want to. Then again, some people might not.
20:10:01 <elliott> nortti: Ooool- wait, did I link that in here...
20:10:07 <elliott> oerjan: F- obviously wrong
20:10:15 <oerjan> WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:10:16 <shachaf> oerjan: Not want to or not be able to?
20:10:49 <oerjan> elliott: is whooshing shachaf good or bad there
20:10:57 <zzo38> Perhaps, they should set lambdabot to +R mode and then disallow public administration commands; that might work.
20:11:19 <olsner> hmm, that's not really linux on 8-bit though, it's just linux on emulated 32-bit
20:11:24 <shachaf> oerjan: I understood that you were behaving like zzo38 there.
20:11:38 <elliott> olsner: What's the difference, man?
20:11:40 <oerjan> OK it is good that you understood that.
20:11:41 <olsner> approximately like saying linux on cpu is linux on 1-bit because it's all transistors
20:11:42 <shachaf> oerjan: I responded in the same way that I would've responded to zzo38 if he had said it instead of you.
20:13:22 <RocketJSquirrel> nortti: "The raw video is in a few segments, since I had to change camera batteries a few times while filming." X-D
20:14:07 <nortti> "It takes about 2 hours to boot to bash
20:15:54 <zzo38> But, someone without an account might want to send queries to lambdabot anyways
20:17:40 <elliott> It would be easy enough for lambdabot just to check whois.
20:18:26 <nortti> elliott: what if you use different name on the wiki?
20:19:12 <zzo38> elliott: Yes. It is what I was thinking of next
20:20:00 <zzo38> (I think there is the 330 line to indicate if you are loggedi n)
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20:22:51 <elliott> <nortti> elliott: what if you use different name on the wiki?
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20:32:00 <elliott> rip lambdabot, "we missed u"
20:32:10 <shachaf> elliott: What did you just do to #haskell?
20:32:56 <shachaf> <lambdabot> "i hate u sulamit haskell" -- eliot
20:33:16 <shachaf> elliott: Whoa, man. You call it that too?
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20:36:04 <oerjan> apparently it's hebrew
20:36:23 <shachaf> Alternatively, "little ladder".
20:36:46 <elliott> More like paamyiamyiaymaim neukeudedokaytayim am i right
20:36:47 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9972598/haskell-warp-and-ajax
20:40:42 * oerjan tries to look up sulamit[th]? and refuels his disgust for web dictionaries that give google hits for words they don't actually have definitions for
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20:44:27 <oerjan> that + definition brought me to a page with no definition, a blocked popup and an annoying non-blocked popup which showed up when i tried to click "show all definitions"
20:45:25 <zzo38> Did you try Wiktionary?
20:45:49 <myndzi\> does linux routing count as an esoteric language? ;)
20:45:56 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
20:45:58 <shachaf> O, and you should try Google Translate too if you tried Wiktionary and it did not work.
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20:46:23 <oerjan> i found a place glosbe.com which had a definition
20:46:31 <zzo38> There is also the internet dictionary service, but as far as I know that is English only
20:46:37 <ais523> haha, proggit's arguing over what should happen if you hash NaN
20:46:39 <oerjan> but what does that have to do with the biblical meaning
20:47:09 <ais523> I /actually/ think NaN is the only possible return value
20:50:07 <zzo38> Is this good now? class Typeable x => NodeClass x where { showNode :: x -> String; hRender :: x -> Node -> RenderPos -> (PageObjects, RenderPos); vRender :: x -> Node -> RenderPos -> (PageObjects, RenderPos); hPackNode :: x -> ([Node], Glue, Dimen, Dimen, [Node]); vPackNode :: x -> ([Node], Glue, Dimen, Dimen); nodePenalty :: x -> Maybe Int;
20:50:35 <elliott> ais523: fun fact: there are 3295 users with no undeleted edits and more than zero deleted edits
20:50:45 <elliott> I just wish there weren't a handful of that set that aren't spambots...
20:50:56 <zzo38> nodeWidth :: x -> Dimen; nodeHeight :: x -> Dimen; nodeDepth :: x -> Dimen; nodeGlueSet :: x -> GlueSet; isNodeDiscardable :: x -> Bool; traverseBox :: Applicative f => (Node -> f Node) -> x -> f Node; showNode _ = "Node;"; hRender x _ y = ([], y + toRenderPos (nodeWidth x)); vRender x _ y = ([], y + toRenderPos (nodeHeight x + nodeDepth x)); hPackNode x = ([Node x], fixedGlue (nodeWidth x), nodeHeight x, nodeDepth x, []);
20:51:35 <zzo38> vPackNode x = ([Node x], fixedGlue (nodeHeight x), nodeDepth x, nodeWidth x); nodePenalty _ = Nothing; nodeWidth _ = 0; nodeHeight _ = 0; nodeDepth _ = 0; nodeGlueSet _ = GlueSet 0 Finite Stretching; isNodeDiscardable _ = False; traverseBox f = f . wrapNode; };
20:51:58 <shachaf> elliott: Fun fact: If you edit the esolang wiki, you are by definition a spambot.
20:52:24 <fungot> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM ...too much output!
20:52:43 <elliott> shachaf: Have you ever considered saying something that isn't cheap snark?
20:52:53 <fungot> shachaf: just when i tottered to my feet and began to stagger fnord toward the bottom of the pedestal. the fnord scarf is found on a crag in the dark. it was then that madness took me utterly. an instant later, and i followed them. the phrase was just this: ' fnord! you are off! send back earth's gods to their haunts on unknown kadath whom he sought. when he took down the receiver in the library once more, i feared, had come to
20:52:55 <shachaf> Wait, how do you make fungot talk?
20:52:56 <fungot> shachaf: seen one ( for that fabled father of shantaks in the king's dome is fed in the dark. drowsiness, however, the short distance to the right, so that he had
20:52:56 <fungot> shachaf: but i havent told you the whole story. here i found what seemed much like that by which i had brought in a mechanic from a neighbouring all-night garage, we learned that nothing could be done about those rats. he would be properly confined. if something graver appeared, and before i could investigate there came a
20:53:22 <shachaf> elliott: Yes, but you gotta stay competitive in this channel, you know?
20:53:45 <oerjan> competing with elliott? madness!
20:53:54 <shachaf> elliott: It's an elliott-eat-everybody world out there.
20:55:01 <shachaf> oerjan: I agree -- there's no way I can beat elliott on the cheap snarks.
20:55:07 <shachaf> oerjan: But at least I can stay alive.
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21:00:03 <elliott> oerjan: there's some kind of rule against putting five languages on the wiki per day, right? :)
21:01:01 <elliott> ais523: grr, another joke language with other categories on it
21:01:07 <elliott> ais523: did we figure out what to do about all that?
21:03:13 <elliott> is “calling functions in data structure” possible in haskell?
21:04:31 <oerjan> well you could say that's sort of what lazy evaluation is
21:04:55 <elliott> oerjan: note the smart quotes, it's an SO question title :P
21:05:21 <ais523> I see no reason why you couldn't make a tuple of functions
21:05:26 <ais523> although I may have misunderstood the questino
21:05:44 <ais523> and the smart quotes are indistinguishable from straight quotes in this font and font size, unless they kern differently
21:05:49 <oerjan> questinos, like questions, except whizzing past at near lightspeed
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21:33:43 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N Robol(in); 21:23 . . (+2,731) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block) (Created Page)
21:33:56 <elliott> "Robol(in) is an incomplete specification by David Catt (user:David.werecat). It will probably never be updated or implemented."
21:34:13 <elliott> ais523: wait, didn't we agree that personal very-sketchy WIPs aren't appropriate for articlespace?
21:34:44 <ais523> we agreed that they were inappropriate for the list of ideas
21:34:51 <ais523> although I have no particular reason to want them in articlespace
21:36:56 <elliott> oerjan: work in phantom hoovers?
21:37:07 <elliott> those are all bricks ready to become brains
21:38:29 <elliott> ais523: I approve of your punishment
21:39:08 <ais523> I'm not sure what it actually does, but that's part of the un
21:39:33 <ais523> I was originally planning to do an exile judged to increase your reregistration timeout by one day, but it seems I can't do that
21:42:36 -!- elly_ has changed nick to elly.
21:43:13 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9965043/i-have-a-troubles-in-basic-about-the-codes "Did I put MISMATCH in the wrong place?"
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21:52:00 <elliott> O, it makes a sad face, see?
21:52:13 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N ELANG; 21:50 . . (+4,740) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block) (Created Page)
21:52:29 <elliott> I assign oerjan to clean up http://esolangs.org/wiki/ELANG, I've done far too many for one day
21:55:50 <elliott> Of course you realise, this means war.
22:01:41 <elliott> oerjan: hey how long has /// been featured language.
22:01:47 <elliott> is it two weeks yet. are we keeping them two weeks or a month.
22:02:08 <oerjan> i don't know, but you're a day late if you want deadfish next.
22:02:28 <elliott> oerjan: ...god dammit, that would have been perfect.
22:02:41 <elliott> especially since it'd align things to nice even numbers if we run the languages for a month.
22:02:47 <elliott> WHY DIDN'T YOU SUGGEST THAT AT THE TIME ;__;
22:04:01 <oerjan> elliott: i _did_, you just didn't logread properly.
22:05:02 <elliott> oerjan: i could block you, you know :P
22:05:22 <oerjan> i could ban you, you know :P
22:06:20 <elliott> ais523: it's more surprising for esolang's real april fool's joke to be a day late, right?
22:06:24 <elliott> everyone's guard is down on april 2
22:06:36 <ais523> it's not an april fools' joke then
22:06:38 <elliott> (look out for my new 10-volume work-in-progress, The Art of Rationalisation)
22:06:53 <zzo38> Do you think the functions for the NodeClass for DVI typesetting is good enough by now?
22:07:08 <elliott> hmm, it went up early in the morning 14 days ago
22:07:16 <elliott> so now is actually perfect for two weeks
22:07:22 <elliott> oerjan: are we doing two weeks or a month, which is best, "hlep"
22:09:06 <oerjan> IT'S TOO LATE WE'RE ALL DOOMED
22:09:14 <elliott> HL;EP!!!!!! 2 WEEKS OR MONTH HEPL
22:10:12 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983840/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-enumerators-vs-conduits-vs-pipes can you say "not constructive"?
22:10:36 <elliott> oerjan: ok but won't we run out
22:10:47 <elliott> that's 26 languages PER YEAR!!!
22:10:54 <elliott> are there even 26 good esolangs??
22:10:58 <elliott> ais523 are there 26 good esolangs
22:11:15 <oerjan> OK RECONSIDERATION: 2 MONTHS
22:11:51 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:11:53 <shachaf> elliott: Do you think the functions for the NodeClass for DVI typesetting is good enough by now?
22:12:06 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
22:12:10 <ais523> or do what some wikis do, weekly but with repeats every now and then
22:12:43 <elliott> ais523: a month is probably best for supply, but it seems to me like the /// featured language is getting old already.
22:12:56 <elliott> at least the idea of it being up another repeat of the period it already has seems awfully stale.
22:13:48 -!- zzo38 has left.
22:14:06 <elliott> well, i'm impatient and i want to see deadfish on the main page
22:14:34 <elliott> oerjan: guess who has to help me write a blurb for [[Deadfish]]
22:14:56 <elliott> <CTCP>ACTION vaguely considers just copying "Deadfish has a way to output things but it has no way to input them! It has only a few commands, only four in total. It is also case-sensitive, and can deal only with integer values when adding or subtracting, however once squared this number increases greatly! You can have several commands per line, at least in the C implementation. Errors are not acknowledged the shell simply adds a newline character! Anyth
22:15:22 <elliott> but that might give people the wrong impression as to the quality standards of the wiki :P
22:15:30 <elliott> (ok, the right impression, but the wrong right impression)
22:15:34 <oerjan> what do you me... right
22:16:07 <oerjan> M VWL KS JST STPPD WRKNG, Y S
22:16:55 <elliott> ais523: ok, /you/ help me write a blurb for Deadfish
22:17:20 <ais523> also, I'd have the wrong attitude
22:17:39 <shachaf> elliott: Can I write the blurb for Deathfish?
22:17:46 <shachaf> I'd write such a good blurb.
22:18:07 <elliott> shachaf: it's not meant to be good
22:18:18 <shachaf> What if it's bad in the right way?
22:18:34 <ais523> something like "Deadfish is a language originally created as a joke, featuring an internal state of only one integer, that can be decremented, incremented, squared or output. Although incrementing 255 produces 0, higher integers can be produced via squaring. The language became strangely popular, with a large range of interpreters for it written in a range of languages, perhaps due to its simplicity."
22:18:40 <oerjan> oh, it's a norwegian encyclopedia
22:18:48 <ais523> see, now you'll have to write a better blurb than that
22:18:54 <ais523> or otherwise you'll have to use mine, and that'd be terrible
22:18:58 * oerjan has an old paper version stored away
22:19:42 <elliott> oerjan: ic, apparently it is fudding against wikipedia (im reading no.wikipedia's village pump for some reason)
22:20:18 <oerjan> elliott: well yes it's been in trouble for a while
22:21:28 <oerjan> While no one was looking, Jonathan Todd Skinner invented Deadfish. Deadfish can increment 40 times. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
22:22:40 <shachaf> Deadfish can increment 255 times. That's as many as 255 1s.
22:22:45 <oerjan> It can also square, decrement and print. It's catchphrase is "IMPLEMENTATIONS, IMPLEMENTATIONS, IMPLEMENTATIONS".
22:23:22 <shachaf> *Someone* in this channel isn't too lazy to factor numbers.
22:23:33 <shachaf> Or maybe he is too lazy, and just named two random numbers that sound approximately right.
22:24:26 * Sgeo hugs poor lambdabot
22:24:31 <shachaf> It says it's not perl, but then runs Perl.
22:24:47 <Sgeo> ....because lambdabot isn't here
22:24:52 <Sgeo> Did elliott crash lambdabot?
22:25:09 <shachaf> <elliott> /msg lambdabot @quit
22:25:26 <elliott> but as shachaf astutely points out I don't need to crash lambdabot to make it go away
22:25:30 <elliott> i didn't actually do that though
22:25:47 <shachaf> elliott: I'm pretty sure @quit counts as crashing.
22:25:50 <shachaf> It's premature terminating.
22:26:13 <oerjan> Deadfish is a very environmentally friendly language, if you like bad smell.
22:26:17 <elliott> Are you saying you're one of those anti-abortion activists?
22:27:13 <oerjan> Deadfish is the evil mutated offspring of HQ9+.
22:29:12 <elliott> "Geany is the best open source tool for programmers. But not available for mac." -- answer to question "Mac text/code editor"
22:29:27 <oerjan> A truly compliant Deadfish implementation cannot be aborted.
22:30:50 <oerjan> The definition of an esolang is a language in which implementing Deadfish is at least somewhat tricky.
22:31:05 <Sgeo> Trying to convince myself that Home Row is TC. I mean, it looks it, looks similar enough to BF, but
22:31:06 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:31:19 <Sgeo> I see a trivial way to translate to BF but that's the wrong direction
22:31:38 <elliott> j might be able to interact with l in a way to produce "overlapping" loops
22:31:44 <elliott> jl....l.....l or something
22:31:49 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:32:02 <ais523> ooh, now I have an idea for an esolang
22:32:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
22:32:22 <ais523> tape-based, with < > + - from BF, and a "jump to start if nonzero" for program control
22:32:32 <ais523> the interesting thing would be computational class
22:32:52 <Sgeo> Why does this sound vaguely familiar?
22:32:56 <elliott> IIRC, [prog] is enough for TCness
22:33:09 <elliott> [prog] with some additional instruction in prog is enough or something
22:34:35 <elliott> ais523: anyway, that's not enough, I don't think
22:34:56 <elliott> ais523: I don't think there's any way to meaningfully skip code
22:35:07 <ais523> elliott: exactly, that's the whole point
22:35:11 <ais523> you have to undo it instead
22:35:12 <elliott> all you can do is go back to the start, which basically means that at the first "branching" point, you're stuck
22:35:16 <ais523> < > + - are all reversible
22:35:39 <elliott> OK, put this on the wiki, it's great
22:35:46 <ais523> there'd be a trivial translation from BF if "jump to start if nonzero" were reversible, but it isn't
22:35:56 <ais523> which is the sticking point
22:36:20 <ais523> I shall call it Homing Pigeon
22:36:28 <ais523> unless someone tells me that that's a stupid name
22:36:30 <ais523> and probably even then
22:36:50 <elliott> ais523: you should call it brainfuck
22:36:51 <shachaf> elliott: Have you ever considered saying something that isn't cheap snark?
22:36:57 <elliott> whichever one you were planning on
22:37:14 <ais523> I was going to make that one have the same commands as bf, though
22:37:24 <elliott> yes, but that'll be less confusing
22:37:26 <elliott> since nobody will talk about it
22:37:36 <elliott> (if you go with that name, put it at [[Brainfuck (ais523)]], obviously)
22:37:48 <ais523> I was going to put it at [[Brainfuck (capital B)]]
22:37:56 <shachaf> You should call it Elliott.
22:38:02 <shachaf> Is there a langauge called Elliott?
22:38:05 <elliott> ais523: but we have precedent for [[Language (author)]]!
22:38:11 <ais523> shachaf: there's Elliottcraft
22:38:15 <ais523> elliott: but the name isn't the same
22:38:18 <shachaf> ais523: Haven't Hird of it.
22:38:20 <ais523> just the software can't tell them apart
22:38:30 <ais523> shachaf: it's a three-dimensional bully automaton
22:38:36 <elliott> ais523: how do you know Clue's and Clue's names are the same?
22:38:37 <ais523> with somewhat complex semantics
22:38:49 <ais523> I'm not sure it's possible to implement efficiently, sadly
22:39:25 <ais523> elliott: and string comparison
22:39:26 <elliott> I suppose you can call it Homing Pigeon if you want, but how many BF derivatives can you expect to make in one life, really?
22:39:38 <ais523> I've already made two!
22:39:39 <elliott> ais523: that's as biased as MediaWiki title comparison!
22:39:46 <shachaf> I have an exciting idea for a BF derivative.
22:39:49 <ais523> (reversible BF, and DoFucK)
22:40:13 <elliott> ais523: what about Norfuck?
22:40:15 <elliott> or is that not a BF derivative?
22:40:25 <elliott> ais523: also, kick shachaf before he completes
22:40:29 <elliott> it's for his own brickbrain protection
22:40:36 <elliott> there's not much time! hurry!
22:40:50 <elliott> ais523: HE'LL SEE THE LOGS
22:41:00 <shachaf> Wait, I forgot about input and output.
22:41:29 <fungot> shachaf: faint remnant must still lurk down there in the ancient partitions were the worst. i tried fnord but the constant ravings of the two rooms or the hall below me.
22:41:29 <elliott> ais523: I'm pretty sure that counts as being complicit to murder
22:41:58 <shachaf> #esoteric logs are now a BF derivative.
22:42:13 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:42:28 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
22:42:38 <fungot> ais523: they say that the only heavenly body to influence this game." " my dear chap, right on time! we'll just have lunch, and, flinging it away, crying out for grid bugs only exist in a little while even more powerful of all nations, by michael capuzzo)
22:44:24 <fungot> Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
22:44:29 <fungot> elliott: and i think to myself: this is a black market, t-rex? there are already a lot, but they're always a good time, because he is! that's why it is such a good joke! you are using the wrong words. i counted myself among the most un-satisfying i'd ever tell him that, of all places, t-rex, but t-rex explained how the bank that only i don't wear pants, so he put it on his stove and heated it, and it got great names for everyon
22:48:54 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:49:21 <zzo38> Now I have sent package http://hackage.haskell.org/package/dvi-processing-0.1 on Haskell you can please make DVI programming too.
22:49:23 <elliott> ais523: what's the best UK ISP? have I asked you that yet?
22:49:35 <ais523> I don't think you have
22:49:43 <ais523> but from people I've seen talk about it, there are exactly two good ones
22:49:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Can I please make DVI programming too?
22:49:47 <ais523> sadly I can't remember which, though
22:49:58 <zzo38> shachaf: Do you have Haskell? If so, then you can try to do so.
22:50:11 <shachaf> zzo38: Can I use lambdabot?
22:50:18 <elliott> ais523: is one of them Andrews & Arnold (AAISP)?
22:50:30 <zzo38> shachaf: Not for this purpose; lambdabot does not have this package, as far as I know
22:50:43 <ais523> I don't think I've heard of it, so possibly no?
22:50:43 <shachaf> zzo38: What's the best UK ISP?
22:50:48 <ais523> but I'm really not confident in that answer
22:50:54 <shachaf> zzo38: What if I don't have Haskell? All I have is GHC.
22:51:16 <zzo38> shachaf: GHC is OK; it works with GHC.
22:51:25 <ais523> btw, I can tell you that Virgin Media's reputation is pretty accurate; fast and good for the typical customer's needs (i.e. Windows, IPv4, no inbound traffic…) when it's working, and reasonably incompetent at fixing it when it goes wrong
22:51:26 <zzo38> And I don't know what is best UK ISP; I do not live in UK.
22:51:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: 42).
22:51:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Isn't Canada the UK?
22:51:37 <ais523> oh, and ja.net is amazing as usual, but is not a consumer ISP
22:51:41 <elliott> ais523: Don't Virgin shape torrent traffic?
22:52:07 <ais523> elliott: quite possibly
22:52:10 <elliott> ais523: hmm, is the fact that www.ja.net prompts me before giving me a cookie your fault?
22:52:14 <ais523> it doesn't seem to mind multi-gigabyte downloads, though
22:52:22 <elliott> also, Virgin Media aren't really an option for me, we don't get cable
22:52:27 <ais523> and maybe not my fault specifically, but the fault of thousands like me
22:52:32 <elliott> and their DSL services are... not competitive (and apparently crap)
22:52:38 <elliott> ais523: there aren't thousands of people like you
22:52:52 <ais523> in that respect, at least ;)
22:53:31 <elliott> ais523: well, do any of Sky, AAISP, Zen and XILO (Uno) ring bells? :P
22:53:39 <elliott> (if Sky doesn't, I'm going to ask you what rock you live under)
22:53:49 <ais523> not in that respect; I'm aware of Sky, but didn't know they did internet
22:53:52 <ais523> although it's not surprising
22:53:57 <elliott> ais523: oh, I suspect one of the ones you counted as good were probably Be
22:54:02 <elliott> who aren't available here, annoyingly
22:54:12 <shachaf> The Sky is Blue in California.
22:54:14 <ais523> this was secondhand information in the first place
22:54:16 <ais523> and I can't rememebr it
22:54:17 <shachaf> It's probably Grey in UKia.
22:54:20 <ais523> hmm, were 1&1 the others?
22:54:25 <elliott> the only reason I'm considering Sky is because (a) it's really cheap if you have Sky TV (7.50 pounds/mo), and (b) they don't shape or throttle traffic
22:54:38 <elliott> the other ISPs are all rather less commercial
22:54:41 <ais523> if it's that cheap, it's worth trying it and seeing what went wrong
22:55:04 <elliott> do 1&1 even do internet access?
22:55:20 <ais523> shachaf: more like $15
22:55:25 <elliott> ais523: well, OK, 90 pounds is reasonable, but they do local-loop unbundling
22:55:41 <elliott> ais523: which means it'll cost $more to move off it to a non-LLU service
22:55:46 <elliott> (like most of the other options i'm considering)
22:55:58 <elliott> I think it's the cost of setting up a new BT line again, or something, like 90 pounds again or something, but I don't really know
22:56:15 <shachaf> @google 7.50 pounds in dollars
22:56:17 -!- lambdabot has joined.
22:56:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (Client Quit).
22:56:26 <ais523> (wrt shachaf and lambdabot)
22:56:33 <ais523> oh, that's not lambdabot
22:56:35 <ais523> it's shachaf pretending
22:57:07 <elliott> ais523: I don't believe you about 1&1
22:57:22 <ais523> elliott: I may be misremembering
22:57:26 <ais523> so not believing me is a good option
22:57:30 <elliott> I can't find anything on their website about it, at least :)
22:58:08 -!- kappabot has joined.
22:58:10 <ais523> I went to http://1and1.co.uk
22:58:16 <ais523> and the title was "1&1 Internet"
22:58:27 <kappabot> Title: Norway - the official site in the United States
22:58:30 <shachaf> @google what is norway, really?
22:58:33 <kappabot> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-185956/So-Norway-rich.html
22:58:34 <kappabot> Title: So why is Norway rich? | Mail Online
22:58:35 <ais523> but right, they seem to do serving rather than ISP stuff
22:58:45 <elliott> ais523: I would just go with AAISP (static IP, native IPv6, good pricing, very tech-savvy), but their usage pricing is annoying (one unit is 50 gigabytes offpeak, but only 2.5 gigabytes peak (9am-6pm mon-fri))
22:59:07 <elliott> (you purchase usage in "units")
22:59:09 <ais523> that's a weird peak time for home internet
22:59:14 <elliott> that might be reasonable, if I had a reasonable sleep schedule
22:59:19 <ais523> I'd have assumed that people would be at work then
22:59:24 <ais523> and thus not using the internet at home
22:59:27 <elliott> but since I don't, there's no guarantee I won't be downloading tons peaktime and not at all offpeak
22:59:46 <elliott> ais523: I think that's why you get much less bandwidth then
22:59:48 <ais523> do you go to school, btw?
22:59:53 <elliott> admittedly, it makes the "peak" nomenclature strange
23:00:31 <elliott> ais523: "I don't do drugs. I am drugs." --Salvador da Vinci
23:02:04 <shachaf> "I don't do school. I am school."
23:02:32 <shachaf> Do school, kids. Unless you want to end up like elliott.
23:03:55 <elliott> shachaf: kappabot is you, right?
23:04:11 -!- monqy has joined.
23:04:11 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested).
23:04:55 -!- kappabot has joined.
23:05:09 <elliott> shachaf: By the way, I sent that right before your adminning arrived on my screen.
23:05:42 <shachaf> Thank you for depriving Freenode of valuable I Can't Believe It's Not Lambdabot(R) services
23:06:11 <ais523> whose bot is kappabot?
23:06:37 <shachaf> A free bot over an endofunctorgroupset.
23:06:45 <elliott> Can you make me a kappabot admin?
23:07:50 <monqy> what does kappabot do
23:07:52 -!- Jafet has joined.
23:07:59 <kappabot> monqy: you're my favourite monqy
23:08:38 <elliott> maybe I'll convince aaisp to offer me units that don't vary according to time
23:08:43 <shachaf> elliott: OK, I'm making you an admin so you can tell kappabot to @part when Cale comes back.
23:08:56 -!- Jafet1 has joined.
23:08:56 <shachaf> You have responsibility now.
23:09:42 <shachaf> I think it gets corrected to @offline.
23:10:00 <elliott> No, it only does edit distance of 1.
23:10:16 <shachaf> Don't you know your lambdabotology?
23:10:34 <kappabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 00:10:13
23:10:38 <elliott> By the way, if it's going a little slow, it's because I did @listall.
23:11:09 <elliott> You can tune a fs, but you can't...
23:11:47 <elliott> shachaf: How come kappabot has a gazillion notices stored?
23:12:19 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:13:10 <shachaf> elliott: Can I commission a portrait from you? I want it to be titled "shachaf, paraphrased"
23:13:59 <elliott> ais523: What's the worst UK ISP?
23:14:13 <shachaf> elliott: I look like this:
23:14:20 <ais523> elliott: hmm, I'd guess someone like BT, but I don't know
23:14:51 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png
23:16:15 <shachaf> monqy: "monqy: You're ugly." -- elliott
23:17:12 * kappabot puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps elliott
23:18:32 <shachaf> 95.149.229.194 - - [02/Apr/2012:16:14:58 -0700] "GET /sb/1.png HTTP/1.1" 200 136338 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:37 <shachaf> 95.149.229.194 - - [02/Apr/2012:16:15:09 -0700] "GET /sb/ HTTP/1.1" 403 198 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:42 <shachaf> 95.149.229.194 - - [02/Apr/2012:16:15:11 -0700] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 437 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:48 <shachaf> Stop poking around my website, elliott.
23:20:07 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know your compute is broadcasting its IP address to every website that you connect to on the Internet?!
23:20:17 <shachaf> Install Bonzi Firewall today!
23:22:37 <elliott> shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDhvaA/shachef.png
23:23:03 <elliott> Wait, I forgot a background.
23:23:53 <monqy> does elliott have the most karma of anyone
23:24:00 <ais523> bleh, had to kill firefox
23:24:17 <ais523> website opened around 100 cookie-confirm dialog boxes, and they're all modal, and I couldn't figure out which was the most recent
23:27:16 <shachaf> pmichaud++ # so many karmas
23:29:05 <ais523> is kappabot using the same karma database as lambdabot? or does it monitor for karma changes in the same channels?
23:29:22 <shachaf> @which channels are you in kappabot
23:29:43 <kappabot> #esoteric #haskell #stackoverflow weird#
23:31:04 <shachaf> elliott: Put on your typeglasses.
23:31:35 <Sgeo> What's the weird# thing
23:31:50 <kappabot> #esoteric #haskell #haskell-blah weird#
23:32:03 <Sgeo> Some Unicode trick?
23:32:19 <shachaf> elliott: I *believe* the correct spelling is "paraphrozen".
23:32:29 <shachaf> "paraphrosen" in the UK, I guess.
23:32:37 <shachaf> Do you have freesers in the UK which freese things?
23:33:26 <elliott> Have I mentioned the GIMP is nearly impossible to use?
23:33:58 <elliott> who here thinks that haskell is one of the best languages. I do have one problem, it is not good for game development . do any of you know what the best language is other than c++
23:34:00 <shachaf> elliott: 16:32 < johannes__> who here thinks that haskell is one of the best languages. I do have one problem, it is not good for game development . do any of you know what the best language is other than c++
23:34:05 <kappabot> Come on, let's all slap shachaf
23:34:43 <shachaf> join shachaf x = shachaf (shachaf x)
23:35:11 <shachaf> elliott: Is that portrait finished yet?
23:36:02 <elliott> <johannes__> okay so i should use javanese. Can you give me a bit of code
23:38:34 <elliott> Gah, I've completely forgotten how to do this.
23:39:32 <Sgeo> I'm going to regret becoming involved
23:40:58 <elliott> shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag/shachef.png
23:44:27 <elliott> (That was for <kappabot> http://i.imgur.com/ZUTx3.png.)
23:44:31 <elliott> (In case you didn't notice.)
23:44:55 <ais523> bleh, Linode has at least two highly objectionable terms in its ToS
23:45:05 <ais523> what other VPS people should I look at?
23:45:13 <ais523> oh, and one in their privacy policy too
23:45:23 <elliott> The VPSes suck, though. :p
23:45:36 <elliott> ais523: Imagine all the objectionable terms you've agreed to *without* reading them!
23:45:49 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested).
23:45:50 <elliott> * lambdabot (~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com) has joined #haskell
23:45:57 <elliott> I regain power just as soon as I lose it!
23:46:14 <shachaf> <elliott> I regain powder just as soon as I lose it!
23:46:49 <elliott> I wonder if @quit + lambdabot typo-correction has ever lead to any accidents.
23:46:52 -!- Patashu has joined.
23:47:05 <ais523> oh, prgmr's are much better
23:47:14 <ais523> I wonder if anyone's ever chosen a VPS provider based on their ToS before?
23:47:18 <elliott> shachaf: You never thanked me for my finished portrait. :(
23:47:21 <shachaf> elliott: GUESS HOW MAN BANDWIDTHS I'M GETTING
23:47:24 <elliott> ais523: Stupid people, assuredly.
23:47:34 <elliott> shachaf: I don't need to hear about your "man bandwidth", sinner.
23:47:42 <shachaf> elliott: GUESS HOW MANY BANDWIDTHS I'M GETTING
23:48:20 <shachaf> It doesn't say M what, though. Megamicrobytes?
23:49:07 -!- lambdabot has joined.
23:49:07 <ais523> one thing that's really noticeable: linode give a lot more bandwidth relative to memory than prgmr do, who give a lot more memory relative to bandwidth
23:49:23 <shachaf> Length: 1332645499 (1.2G), 1330483498 (1.2G) remaining
23:49:27 <elliott> ais523: What were the objectionable terms, out of intense self-hatred?
23:49:31 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: I'm faaaaaaaaaairly certain that prgmr doesn't actually meter bandwidth, they just have a number to throw around if they need to.
23:49:52 <shachaf> elliott: That's on the computer I'm using right now, by the way, not a VPS thing.
23:50:02 <ais523> elliott: indemnification; ability to change ToS at any time without warning; and keeping credit card numbers on file
23:50:07 <elliott> shachaf: Are you sure you mean megabits and not megabytes?
23:50:29 <elliott> ais523: I would expect that to be standard; standard; irrelevant
23:50:39 <elliott> The credit card system has no security.
23:50:48 <ais523> whereas prgmr just have a change at any time on the AUP, which is not quite as bad as changing it to something ridiculous would merely allow them to terminate the account, which they can do anyway
23:50:58 <ais523> elliott: but the problem is that if they have my CC number, they can charge me money without my explicit permission
23:51:13 <ais523> I'm not a fan of standing orders
23:51:27 <elliott> ais523: Yes. So can every single entity you have ever purchased anything with your credit card from.
23:51:31 <ais523> and even if indemnification is standard, it's ridiculous
23:52:00 <elliott> ais523: Anyway, there's a specific page to give them money.
23:52:01 <ais523> elliott: I'm not a fan of having to opt-out to paying someone money, rather than opting in
23:52:05 <elliott> Just pay in batch and they won't charge you.
23:52:22 <elliott> (As in, you can pay them $200 and they won't charge you for 10 months.)
23:52:33 <elliott> ais523: Besides, with prgmr you'll have to use PayPal.
23:52:36 <elliott> I'm sure you have moral objections to that.
23:52:46 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet.
23:52:51 <ais523> seriously? how ridiculous
23:53:15 <elliott> Have you considered retreating into a cave and never doing anything ever again?
23:53:24 <ais523> time to look for someone else, I guess
23:53:33 <Jafet> Moral objections to paypal should not override pragmatic objections to the credit card verification system
23:53:49 <elliott> ais523 has no practical objections, only an infinite supply of moral objections.
23:53:55 * Jafet throws bitcoins in the air, metaphorically.
23:53:58 <ais523> Jafet: there are pragmatic objections to paypal too, such as the fact that they've closed accounts in the past without refunding the money in them
23:54:39 <Jafet> It's okay, they are a formally audited international banking sys... oh wait.
23:55:24 <elliott> ais523: By the way, there is not a single VPS provider on the planet who will both promise not to store your credit card, and not outsource their payments to asystem which won't promise not to store your credit card.
23:55:42 <elliott> ais523: Also, what are you talking about, "not legally"? You don't give Linode the right to charge you $3489394834 by giving them your credit card.
23:55:51 <shachaf> buy your vpses cheap from shachafvps
23:55:51 <elliott> So your objection to them being able to charge you money without your permission is nonsense.
23:55:56 <ais523> I don't mind if they outsource it, if the outsourced company doesn't allow them to charge to the credit card
23:56:03 <shachaf> i promise i won't store your credit card
23:56:04 <ais523> elliott: well, I'm giving them permission by signing up
23:56:14 <ais523> shachaf: do you run a VPS company?
23:56:26 <shachaf> ais523: very good cheap vps
23:56:36 <elliott> ais523: Yes, you're giving them permission to charge you $N/month.
23:56:55 <elliott> So, you are not giving Linode the ability to charge you money without your explicit permission any more than you do when buying anything with a credit card ever.
23:56:58 <ais523> I'm the sort of person who'd prefer the server to go down if I don't pay, rather than them charging me more money
23:57:03 <elliott> And, as I said, <elliott> (As in, you can pay them $200 and they won't charge you for 10 months.)
23:57:40 <ais523> elliott: but they'll charge me /after/ 10 months
23:57:51 <ais523> I think you're missing the point here
23:58:05 <elliott> ais523: Not if you pay them again within 10 months, or cancel your account.
23:58:15 <elliott> Are you planning to die in the next 10 months?
23:58:50 <ais523> but the point is, /it requires explicit action from me to stop them charging me again/
23:58:58 <shachaf> elliott: I think you're missing ais523's point here.
23:58:58 <ais523> thus, /they are charging me money and it's opt-out not opt-in/
23:59:12 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:59:12 <elliott> I understand ais523's point perfectly. It's stupid.
23:59:22 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Can you back up my glowing recommendation of 365ezone?
23:59:24 <elliott> It's stupid even by ais523's standards.