00:11:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 00:15:41 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:39:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:40:45 RocketJSquirrel: That is half the point, isn't it? 00:43:29 back 00:43:47 RocketJSquirrel: well it's for TASes sure but why would you do that 00:49:37 pikhq_: I thought the whole point was for TAS, so rewind. I'm just validating that that ability also gives it save-states. 00:49:41 elliott: How about ... for save states. 00:50:18 RocketJSquirrel: Well, it's slow, you know. 00:50:24 What kind of game? 00:50:38 I didn't have anything in mind, it was a general question. 00:50:44 I've never ran it, so I have no idea how slow it is X-D 00:51:14 Me neither, really. 00:51:21 RocketJSquirrel: But come on, it rips out the scheduler. 00:51:23 And does it in userspace. 00:51:25 Deterministically. 00:51:35 With ptrace. 00:53:02 Sooo ... 00:53:06 Fast as a flying squirrel? 00:53:26 Yes. 00:53:55 * RocketJSquirrel zooooom! 00:55:04 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:04:11 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:08:40 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:32:19 -!- cheater_ has joined. 01:51:04 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9677012/suppress-runtime-error-irrefutable-pattern-failed-for-pattern-data-maybe-just-b 02:00:37 elliott, tswett monqy update! (If you didn't see it already, it was about an hour or so ago 02:03:23 * tswett finishes having seen it. 02:04:00 That means you saw it, but then stopped having seen it, so now you haven't seen it? 02:04:45 * Sgeo now understands why Racket's keyword arguments are the way they are 02:15:52 hi 02:16:27 Apparently, in #lisp , it's not worth doing interesting things, just useful things. 02:16:54 oh? 02:17:28 Maybe I'm misrepresenting what was said :/ 02:17:51 I think I did, after I suggested what I was doing could be potentially useful 02:18:20 So I kind of did 02:18:22 Sorry 02:18:32 ok 02:30:48 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 02:33:14 'You're welcome; please learn how to spell "thank you".' 02:34:33 (after I said ty 02:34:35 ) 02:35:09 Sgeo i fear you're under the impression we will die if we don't hear every detail of your continuing #lisp experience 02:35:30 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:36:46 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:29 but it's true 02:38:42 i need sgeo's #lisp experience to survive 02:40:23 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:52:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:52:18 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 02:57:38 @ping 02:57:38 pong 02:59:13 @raping 02:59:13 pong 02:59:31 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:06:43 -!- kmc has joined. 03:19:52 -!- myndzi has joined. 03:21:54 -!- elly has joined. 03:22:48 hi :) kmc told me I should join here - I have a FALSE compiler targeting x86-64 asm: http://www.leptoquark.net/~elly/false.c 03:24:49 the code is not very pretty :P 03:26:20 `welcome elly 03:26:23 elly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 03:43:30 -!- Jafet has joined. 03:43:46 -!- elliott has joined. 03:44:58 -!- ckennelly has joined. 03:46:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:46:52 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:10:50 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:14:33 \o/- 04:14:33 | 04:14:33 /| 04:19:17 \o/ 04:19:17 | 04:19:17 >\ 04:19:26 `welcome ckennelly 04:19:29 ckennelly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 04:21:20 elliott, NOCAPS? 04:25:19 -!- cswords_ has joined. 04:28:41 -!- cswords has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:51:28 http://www.vanityfair.com/ontheweb/features/2007/02/autumn200702 "I see people in black hoods and robes sitting round a table, bound by blood oath never to divulge the latitude and longitude of Autumn." 05:02:19 poetry to my soul 05:02:48 Isn't the autumn, the season? 05:03:25 The ending of that article cheated me. :( 05:04:27 I can tell you the latitude and longitude of the autumn equinox. 05:05:29 thanks 05:07:39 Its declination is zero, and its Greenwich hour angle changes all the time. 05:08:06 * Sgeo is no longer an admin at the Nethack Wiki 05:08:07 Its ecliptic latitude is also zero, and its ecliptic longitude is 180 degrees (= 0 Libra). 05:08:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 05:08:43 I think its right ascension would also be 180 degrees (= 12 hours). 05:09:17 Sgeo: You were ever? 05:09:38 Since 2005 or so. It did carry over to the new site, if that's what you're asking. 05:09:54 Now we know the latitude and longitude of the autumn equinox. 05:09:58 And apparently, if I want it back, I can just ask, and will get it, no questions asked. 05:10:20 Oh, wait, you founded it, right. 05:10:23 http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sgeo What an impressive record. 05:13:01 zzo38: Hi. 05:13:48 -!- shadwick has joined. 05:13:53 hello 05:14:01 Hi shadwick 05:14:53 `welcome zzo38 05:14:55 sgep? 05:14:56 zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 05:15:09 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:15:12 shachaf: btw you might want to get that implementation you wrote onto the file archive 05:15:21 elliott: What? 05:15:43 (I mean autumn equinox in north hemisphere; in south hemisphere the coordinates I give are for spring equinox) 05:15:48 monqy, I used to be Sgep on Freenode because I forgot the password for Sgeo. 05:15:53 er 05:15:55 shadwick: 05:15:57 stop being sh 05:15:59 and sha 05:16:07 shadwick: Stop being sha 05:16:29 22:16 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on shadwick (account shadwick): 05:16:31 22:16 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Apr 29 23:37:31 2009 (2 years, 45 weeks, 3 days, 05:38:45 ago) 05:16:34 22:16 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on Shachaf (account Shachaf): 05:16:35 shachaf: stop being 05:16:37 22:16 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Jul 03 22:30:48 2004 (7 years, 36 weeks, 2 days, 06:45:31 ago) 05:16:41 monqy:( 05:16:48 2004. You were like 3 then, right? 05:16:55 I sure was 05:17:21 I moved to the US in -- 2002? 05:17:38 Are you sure you're younger than 21? 05:17:51 elliott: oh ok. I've gotta fix it up a bit anyways 05:17:59 elliott: you're talking about the Optimism thing right? 05:18:00 Fighting... snob... instinct. 05:18:09 elliott: Unless I've been lied to about my age. :-( 05:18:26 shadwick: he's talking about tab-completion. you and shachaf share the first three letters in your names 05:18:47 shadwick: yeah 05:19:05 Sgeo: Saying that was just as bad as not fighting it, so you might as well just go ahead. 05:19:12 or at least if I was elliott I'd be talking about tab-completion because wow sharing three letters is a lot 05:19:33 yes it's too much 05:19:36 elliott: I'm working on a compiler/interpreter for another language right now. I'll fix up the last bit of the Optimism code before I ask about the archive thingy 05:19:40 relatedly 05:19:40 elly: GET OUT 05:20:01 Man, who is even elly? 05:20:05 elly: I'm pretty sure you've been around for longer than elliott. 05:20:12 elliott: You know, elly! 05:20:15 Everyone knows elly. 05:20:20 I don't know elly. 05:20:21 what happened to ehird, man 05:20:25 ehird died. 05:20:31 who was tusho 05:20:33 long live ehird 05:20:38 A dead body. 05:20:52 oh 05:21:04 elliott, I'm referring to a less than stellar writer on the old NH wiki 05:22:21 elliott: BUT IO IS PURE LOGIC SAYS SO 05:24:53 elliott: I've come to a realization. 05:25:00 Every thing is either the devil or the future. 05:25:11 And the devilfuture? 05:25:22 The devilfuture is the devil. 05:29:42 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:31:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:42:44 I got in touch with evincar about Alchemy 05:43:00 he said he was never expecting an email about it haha 05:46:00 evincar? 05:46:04 Alchemy? 05:46:05 help 05:46:18 just a random lang I found in the unimplemented category yesterday 05:46:19 from 2008 05:46:31 I wanted to make an interpreter for it so I contacted him to ask a few dtails 05:47:02 it's coming along well so far; got the source->bytecode compiler working and program state and execution functionality down 05:47:08 ∀chemy! 05:47:18 hahaha nice name 05:48:16 What programming language are you using to write compilers/interpreters? 05:48:29 C 05:48:36 Norwegian. 05:48:59 far as I know, it will pass valgrind with flying colours 05:49:00 @ 05:49:03 haven't confirmed that yet 05:49:58 @@@@ 05:50:28 I have used different programming languages to implement different esolangs, sometimes multiple implementations in different programming languages, some of them possibly other esolangs too. 05:50:33 the more @ you add, the perfecter it gets 05:52:16 @^@ 06:00:00 (I have implemented FlogScript in PHP, BytePusher in CWEB, Constantinople in Haskell, Deadfish in dc and Forth and TeX and TeXnicard, Underload in TeX and FlogScript, and Unlambda in PHP. 06:01:03 (I have also invented and implemented FurryScript, which may be called a quasi-esolang by some.) 06:01:10 O, and I have implemented Pure BF in Haskell, too. 06:01:22 furry...script? 06:01:45 myndzi: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/FurryScript Tell me if you misunderstand anything about it. 06:02:23 ha, i was envisaging something more like a cross between 'yiff' and lolcode 06:02:29 but .. i couldn't think of anything except 'yiff' 06:04:13 myndzi: Well, someone once thought it was something like that and responded to my message about FurryScript with a code that looked like a somewhat badly written JavaScript code involving 'yiff' and a few other things. But actually, FurryScript is not JavaScript nor is it 'yiff'. 06:04:54 dispensin' the facts 06:05:33 indeed! 06:05:40 it would be more interesting if it was though 06:05:41 :P 06:06:01 little(?) known fact is that 'yiff' comes from a whole language of dog sounds haha 06:06:19 by 'whole language' i'm talking like a dozen words of course 06:06:32 but yiff is the only one anyone knows 06:13:25 Of course you can write programs in FurryScript involving that stuff or any other stuff if you want, but they are not part of the programming language. Do you think this is good and understandable document to you? 06:13:49 i don't know, i was only curious if it was any relation :P 06:13:55 let's see 06:19:21 it is a good and understandable document :) 06:19:58 Can you write any programs using it? So far I am the only one who has written anything with it (although data comes from various sources and is not entirely my own). 06:21:17 the document would certainly benefit from some code examples both to demonstrate syntax and purpose :P 06:21:22 define writing a program 06:22:27 monqy: hi 06:22:32 there are also some vagaries that could be explained better 06:23:12 elliott: hi 06:23:56 monqy: tell me to go to bed in the next few minutes, thanks 06:24:04 go to bed 06:24:20 myndzi: OK then do tell me what needs to be explain better 06:24:26 I would like to fix it 06:25:06 explain what you mean by 'continuation', what purpose a parameter serves (and where it goes when you take it from the stack), and your syntax with the parenthesis ( foo -- bar ) 06:25:15 monqy: no not now 06:25:17 not noooooooow 06:25:26 myndzi: I would assume the standard meaning of continuation unless stated otherwise 06:25:30 elliott: now? 06:25:33 ( foo -- bar ) is presumably the standard Forth stack notation 06:25:37 monqy: no not noooooooow 06:25:41 elliott: now. 06:25:43 elliott: yeah, but i'm a noob 06:26:02 elliott: do you have a timer 06:26:07 now if you are defining something for a person to read, you don't want to draw references in from a bunch of other languages ;) 06:26:25 also uncertain if one command per line or what 06:26:33 well continuations are a pretty common concept :P 06:26:42 the stack notation is unintuitive to a newcomer to stack languages though yeah 06:26:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation may enlighten you or confuse you tenfold 06:26:55 i'm just taking it for what it is 06:27:05 a document ;) 06:27:15 myndzi: The ( foo -- bar ) is the Forth-like stack notation; elliott is correct about that. (It is sometimes used in other programming language with stack too.) But the continuations are not exactly like other programming language continuations though; there are a few differences. I don't know the best way to describe but source-codes is available. 06:27:33 but i guess this is foot-in-mouth moment, i didn't even recognize these as standard notations :P 06:27:42 truth is i'm not even in the right channel ;D 06:27:48 Examples might also help. Here are codes for examples: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/scripts/ 06:28:13 well continuations are mostly something you might stumble upon in functional programming circles liek scheme and haskell, although POSIX used to have them (technically) 06:28:24 an interwiki link to wikipedia for the term is probably appropriate 06:28:40 myndzi: the ( foo -- bar ) thing is just ( stack before -- stack afterwards ) 06:28:44 e.g. ( m n -- m+n ) 06:28:51 swap would be ( a b -- b a ) 06:28:52 etc. 06:29:38 that's kinda what i gathered from context 06:30:03 just wasn't sure "where" the components were 06:30:04 :P 06:30:13 top of the stack comes last 06:30:26 i mean "on the stack" or "somewhere else" 06:30:32 ah 06:30:32 i'm not so savvy as that 06:30:32 haha 06:30:33 stack 06:31:01 really i just came here because of bf joust a long time ago and stay because interesting stuff at times 06:32:30 The result of a subroutine can be one of three things: OK, bad, or very bad. 06:32:59 HORrible ;D 06:33:22 Yes, that is why the command for very bad is called HOR. 06:33:32 myndzi: er you were here way before bf joust i think 06:33:43 haha nope! 06:33:53 though, bf joust has had a couple recurrences 06:34:05 it was impomatic in #corewars talkin about it that got me to come play 06:34:24 yeah you're right 06:34:25 weird 06:34:28 (logs know all) 06:34:35 lol 06:34:48 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:34:49 i bet \o/ talks more than i do :) 06:34:50 | 06:34:50 /< 06:35:17 ^celebrate 06:35:17 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 06:35:18 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 06:35:18 /´\ /< /< | /< |\ |\ | >\ /< /'\ 06:35:18 /`\ /¯|_) 06:35:18 (_| |_) (_| 06:35:21 myndzi: oh speaking of which i had a bug report 06:35:26 ^rainbow \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 06:35:26 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 06:35:31 make this work please 06:35:32 haha 06:35:34 and copy the colours for each column 06:35:34 alright 06:35:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:35:38 harder 06:35:38 thx 06:35:43 :( 06:35:48 actually 06:35:51 i might have a script that applies here 06:35:53 check this out 06:36:01 do /me something myndzi but put color codes all up in my nick 06:36:11 * elliott boop dop boop 06:36:12 * elliott boop dop 06:36:14 er 06:36:16 you're not dop 06:36:19 * elliott boop myndzi 06:36:19 lol 06:36:20 * myndzi boop elliott 06:36:29 i already knew about that 06:36:37 more like elliott 06:36:39 or do the colour codes do something special 06:36:48 er myndzi 06:36:53 it will scale the codes to match 06:36:54 :) 06:36:58 haha, great 06:37:00 * shachaf boop myndzi 06:37:01 * myndzi boop shachaf 06:37:03 * elliott boop myndzi 06:37:04 * myndzi boop elliott 06:37:07 -!- shadwick has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:37:09 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:37:09 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:37:11 * elliott boop myndzi 06:37:12 * myndzi boop elliott 06:37:26 i'm not sure that script applies here though 06:37:37 * shachaf myndzi myndzi 06:37:37 * myndzi shachaf shachaf 06:37:44 myndzi: :-( 06:37:51 ? 06:38:00 nicks different lengths man, what do you want ;p 06:38:13 also that looks cool on my theme 06:38:16 perfect gradient 06:38:21 elliott: now 06:38:30 monqy: in 5 minutes!!!!!!!!! 06:38:32 its not even 7 am yet 06:38:35 ^rainbow myndzi 06:38:36 myndzi 06:38:37 * shachaf monqy myndzi 06:38:38 * myndzi monqy shachaf 06:38:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:38:42 * elliott myndzi 06:38:42 * myndzi elliott 06:38:43 myndzi: :-( 06:38:45 oops 06:39:01 /my ndzi myndzi 06:39:15 * elliott ndzi 06:39:19 mendzi 06:39:24 huh, i wonder if this will work 06:39:33 ^rainbow \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 06:39:33 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 06:39:33 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 06:39:33 >\ |\ /| | >\ /| |\ | |\ /´\ /| 06:39:33 /\ (_|¯`¯|_) 06:39:33 (_| |_) 06:39:34 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 06:39:34 >\ /| /´\ | /´\ >\ /| | /| /^\ /´\ 06:39:34 /`\ (_|¯´\ 06:39:35 (_| |_) |_) 06:39:36 lol 06:40:08 i wonder why it didn't trigger on yours 06:40:38 i'll have to do the colors sometime when i'm not four beers in, it probably requires a complete rewrite of things 06:40:46 bolds complicate matters too, but hopefully i don't have to support that :) 06:41:25 myndzi: can i make it more complicated 06:41:30 just copying the colours for each column is wrong 06:41:40 you want it to follow the lines 06:41:43 if a head is one colour, that entire person (and only that person) should be that colour 06:41:54 that actually makes it easier 06:41:57 if it's multiple colours, it should use the same stretching you use for nicks to fill the whole body on every line ;) 06:42:03 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:42:11 that makes it easier? i don't want to see your code then 06:42:17 lol 06:42:21 well when you said "body same color as head" 06:42:25 that = one color for everything 06:42:34 but all the little dudes \o/ 06:42:34 | 06:42:34 /< 06:42:40 fall into three columns by your description anyway 06:42:48 (_| |_) ain't three columns 06:42:49 so the stretching would be the same as per-column 06:42:54 ^ little dudes 06:42:57 ah 06:43:13 even that guy is about the same 06:43:18 max +1 and/or -1 06:43:28 so stretching that to two wouldn't be much of a ... stretch 06:43:30 HA 06:44:09 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:44:12 ha 06:44:13 ha 06:44:13 ha 06:44:15 ha 06:44:16 ha 06:44:22 elliott: has it been 5 minutes 06:44:26 monqy: yeah ok 06:44:35 myndzi: i thought it'd be harder to do it per-guy because they can overlap in columns 06:44:38 -!- rvchangue has joined. 06:44:38 Another thing which only I have written files for so far is the Internet Quiz Engine. (And unlike FurryScript, Internet Quiz Engine supports user uploads.) 06:44:46 they actually can't 06:44:50 `welcome rvchangue 06:44:55 rvchangue: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 06:44:55 myndzi: meh, blame my proportional font then 06:45:03 it won't render the rocker dude if he's within one character of other stuff 06:45:14 ah, why would you even care with a proportional font lol ;) 06:46:28 you don't want to see the code anyway though 06:46:37 it looks like any code that starts simple and expands to do more than it should 06:46:50 I use a fixed font on my IRC but that doesn't mean these things will be lined up 06:46:52 you need an extensible dude-drawing framework 06:47:02 :D 06:47:11 zzo38: too many variances in clients, yeah 06:47:31 but any client that left-aligns nicks should do, excepting ones that don't pad for non-status-symbols when there's a difference 06:47:49 i actually made it output proper spaces once but i actually got more complaints than otherwise 06:48:25 man, i neglected an ebay auction earlier 06:48:26 :\ 06:48:35 120 watt solar panel, probably would have gone for < $1/watt 06:48:51 i laid eyes on it at 8 mins to go and then got distracted 06:48:58 i once bought ebay 06:49:03 * shachaf 120 watt myndzi 06:49:04 * myndzi 120 watt shachaf 06:49:11 i once watt ebay 06:49:13 myndzi: ps - revive bf joust, thx 06:49:16 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=04282006 06:49:21 lol 06:49:28 i'm impressed that slowrush is still hanging out in decent shape 06:49:34 myndzi: For example, on my client, your messages are thirteen spaces to the right of elliott's messages. And many other client do in other ways; it also depend fixed/proportinal, table format, and other things too. So you cannot really get it to work (possibly even in some cases, messages from the same sender might not be lined up!) 06:49:35 but 06:49:40 it's hard to top the effort ais put in 06:49:47 with what limited motivation i have :) 06:50:32 the ones he did most recently are like the ones i wanted to do but didn't want to spend the effort on, but also better most likely 06:50:33 haha 06:50:48 now it's less about discovery than it is about refinement 06:50:53 which is the same r eason i can't get myself into corewars 06:51:56 (Also, my IRC uses its own colors instead of using the colors specified in the message.) 06:52:10 of course it does 06:52:28 myndzi: i think it's still about discovery as, iirc, ais' latest strategy still has no known counter 06:52:35 in general 06:52:48 zzo38: it's more like, there's no way i can cater to everything so i went for the majority 06:53:14 myndzi: Yes, you cannot cater to everything. 06:53:22 is it even possible to cater to zzo's client 06:54:07 myndzi: zzo38's client shows the lines as raw IRC lines with syntax highlighting 06:54:09 so there's that 06:54:10 elliott: dunno, i just refreshed my memory and it's more like "everything useful thus far" 06:54:12 better account for user+hostname 06:54:18 elliott: lol. 06:54:23 myndzi: eh? 06:54:25 re: everything useful 06:54:28 i've irced with telnet many a time and i can't imagine why anyone would want to do that 06:54:38 because zzo 06:54:38 monqy: It probably is, but is not such a good idea since any client does them differently from another one. 06:54:38 i mean slowpoke.bfjoust 06:54:52 fuuuuck good{night,morning} 06:54:57 it's integrated the strategies or counters to everything up to it basically 06:55:02 and that shows in the ratings too 06:55:04 myndzi: I have once done that too; but then I found it wasn't very good so I wrote an IRC client instead. 06:55:48 it loses to a couple, which means that you could target it, but that does you no good if the specific killers don't survive on their own against a lot of other things 06:56:31 i'm not being defeatist, i just don't have any ideas :) 06:56:42 not that don't involve "doing something very similar but better" 06:56:54 it was the "doing something new" that caught my interest 06:58:37 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:59:01 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:01:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:02:12 On Sunday, I have played D&D game. 07:02:26 But experience points for that session have not yet been counted. 07:02:58 -!- SimonRC has joined. 07:03:24 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:03:33 under deliberation? 07:03:59 or just up til 3am and wanted sleep ;) 07:04:35 The reason is that the DM lacked time to do so. 07:07:07 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:08:46 One of the players is new and played only one session before this one; her character is a human fighter, using a staff and crossbow, with high Wisdom, and has a winter blanket, candle, bread, cheese, meat, and ale. 07:09:09 this seems very random 07:09:09 My character is very different from that and has very different equipment. 07:09:38 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:10:23 i never really got into a decent d&d game :\ 07:10:35 had the opportunity and not the knowledge and also the reverse 07:10:36 haha 07:10:43 There is also one player who has quit. 07:11:49 did they quit due to an ale shortage 07:12:10 AM I GETTING DRUNK YET 07:12:15 kmc: No; I think he just wanted to do other things. 07:15:11 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:17:42 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:22:29 You can read about the game and about the characters since I put all of it onto the computer. 07:24:42 Her character has tried to offer some food to my character for healing, but she learn better in future 07:26:36 you don't eat? :P 07:26:44 -!- mtve has joined. 07:27:38 Among other things, it wouldn't heal hit point damage. 07:28:40 pfft you're not playing Final Fantasy? :P 07:28:54 Correct; I am not playing Final Fantasy. 07:31:14 everything's better with chocobos! 07:31:20 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 07:34:12 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:38:04 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:40:26 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:46 -!- augur has joined. 07:54:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:55:45 Then you should play Chocobo Dungeon 07:56:01 It makes as much sense as it sounds, but it has chocobos 07:56:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:56:50 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:02:43 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:03:40 -!- olsner has joined. 08:05:22 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:15:20 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:30:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:32:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:41:50 " Shen uses a C++ convention for comments." 08:41:58 "\* Here is a comment *\" 08:41:59 Uh. 08:42:08 C++ inspired, I guess. 08:45:39 it's important to invent new comment syntax for your language 08:45:48 it makes polyglot programs easier to write 08:48:35 Idea: Polygots that don't use comments. 08:53:53 "For the next release I’m trying to decide whether to roll to one of the super-bloated newer Linux kernels or write my own USB stack plus SATA and UDMA drivers for 2.0.28." 08:54:29 o.O 08:54:50 http://www.mastodon.biz/ same guy that has the SCCS mirror on github 08:55:13 2.4.20 was the kernel, man. 08:55:20 That's the kernel that it's all about. 08:57:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:57:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:12:34 * oerjan sees a nick matchin ell.* and thinks "this will end well." 09:13:07 Surely you mean "this will start ell"? 09:13:18 MAYBE 09:13:51 Should I get a domain name in Afghanistan? 09:14:38 sounds dangerous 09:17:55 Sgeo: http://p.zem.fi/d0as -- C/Befunge polyglot without comments. (Okay, so X/Befunge is far too easy.) 09:18:26 we are still waiting for Malbolge/Befunge. 09:18:46 C/Whitespace is easier. 09:18:59 Does whitespace count as comments when there's information encoded in it? 09:19:26 Do non-whitespace characters in Whitespace count as comments? 09:19:27 What about strings? Do those count as comments? Python practically uses them as such. 09:20:15 python has strings attached 09:20:21 fizzie, cute/cool 09:22:26 05:48:36: Norwegian. 09:22:26 05:48:59: far as I know, it will pass valgrind with flying colours 09:22:33 oh wait 09:22:44 those weren't the same person. 09:23:05 I AM STARTING TO AGREE WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE ON THESE NICK MATTERS 09:23:28 WHAT ABOUT UNCERTAIN PEOPLE 09:23:29 It's true what you say, nick matters. 09:23:57 you cannot agree with uncertain people, you never know where you might end up. 09:24:22 You might end up uncertain. 09:24:40 oerjan: Hey, you're Norwegian. 09:24:56 oerjan: Do you pass Valgrind? 09:25:16 oerjan: Have you ever been to Bø? 09:25:18 fizzie: presumably, only if i die in battle. 09:25:23 Trick question: All cities in Norway are called Bø. 09:25:51 What a bo-ing place it must be. 09:26:21 shachaf: Bø in Vesterålen? 09:26:29 You mean Bøing. 09:26:43 Which is the name of a big airplane thing company. 09:26:55 oerjan: No, Telemark. 09:27:38 oh. then probably not. probably not the other one either. 09:29:16 the latter is a bit unsure, since i've been to some nearby places 09:29:26 i certainly don't _recall_ visiting either. 09:29:46 s/latter/Vesterålen one/ 09:35:46 06:06:01: little(?) known fact is that 'yiff' comes from a whole language of dog sounds haha 09:35:50 06:06:19: by 'whole language' i'm talking like a dozen words of course 09:35:57 hey that's more than enough for turing-completeness! 09:40:58 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:42:35 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:42:54 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:43:00 -!- olsner has joined. 09:49:53 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 09:49:54 -!- RocketJSquirrel has quit (*.net *.split). 09:49:54 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:49:54 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 09:49:54 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 09:51:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:55:23 -!- RocketJSquirrel has joined. 09:55:23 -!- EgoBot has joined. 09:55:23 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:55:23 -!- ion has joined. 10:42:02 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:23:03 -!- derdon has joined. 11:30:49 -!- sunz has joined. 11:31:19 `welcome sunz 11:31:27 sunz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 11:35:52 `run (welcome && welcome && welcome) | @ oerjan cat - 11:35:56 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page \ Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page \ Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design 11:36:55 fancy 11:37:02 `run welcome fizzie | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/!-~/; y/ / /' 11:37:05 ​fizzie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs 11:37:19 That's the widest welcome. 11:41:21 `run welcome ion | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/a-zA-Z/𝖆-𝖟𝕬-𝖅/' 11:41:24 ​𝖎𝖔𝖓: 𝖂𝖊𝖑𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖊 𝖙𝖔 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖎𝖓𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖓𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑 𝖍𝖚𝖇 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖊𝖘𝖔𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖎𝖈 𝖕𝖗𝖔𝖌𝖗𝖆𝖒𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖚𝖆𝖌𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖘𝖎𝖌𝖓 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖉𝖊𝖕𝖑𝖔𝖞𝖒𝖊𝖓𝖙! 𝕱𝖔𝖗 𝖒𝖔𝖗𝖊 𝖎𝖓𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖒𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓, 11:41:39 (Sadly, it does not work in my terminal; had to go all XChat for it.) 11:41:45 Works in mine. 11:41:56 Possibly a font problem. 11:42:00 yeah 11:43:26 Heh; at codu logs with this work-borwser, doesn't show up in the regular logs but does show up in the "text" and "raw" ones. 11:59:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:12:27 -!- cswords_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:12:53 -!- cswords has joined. 12:17:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:25:31 -!- derdon_ has joined. 12:28:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:28:38 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:29:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:33:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:34:29 -!- derdon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:42 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:40:39 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:43:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:01:43 -!- ckennelly has left. 13:04:35 -!- augur has joined. 13:34:42 -!- itidus21 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:47:00 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:49:13 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:49:38 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:32:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:33:22 Hello! 14:33:37 -!- tzxn3 has joined. 14:43:35 Heh; at codu logs with this work-borwser, doesn't show up in the regular logs but does show up in the "text" and "raw" ones. // whoah, same here ... that's odd. 14:44:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 14:47:54 That's funny, the HTML version is physically full of ef bf bd (that's UTF8ese for U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER) where the characters should be. 14:48:18 They're non-BMP characters, maybe someone has Uniscrewed up? 14:48:30 (That's what screwing up Unicode support is called.) 14:51:58 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 14:52:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:56:00 I guess so! 15:10:20 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 15:13:46 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:40:45 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 15:43:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:51:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:04:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:05:16 Is elly a relation of elliott's? 16:06:09 All people whose names begin with "ell" are related. 16:07:05 Yes, didn't you know that elliott's real name is actually Ell Iot the Third? 16:07:21 In Hexham they use the familial, personal name order. 16:08:10 -!- sunz has left ("Verlassend"). 16:18:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:26:16 * Sgeo learns of the being known as Xah Lee 16:26:24 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/71ff72fc0f45ec82 16:29:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:30:43 Hello! 16:38:40 The UK's going to lose Eurovision this year. 16:38:42 Again. 16:55:50 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:08:33 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 17:13:36 xah lee is insane 17:13:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:14:40 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:17:35 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:19:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:23:23 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 17:24:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:24:28 Hello! 17:24:40 I'm thinking of learning C++ 17:26:45 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:27:14 Any suggestions for a tutorial? 17:27:32 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:28:18 http://google.com/search?q=c%2B%2B+fqa 17:28:54 @ping 17:28:54 pong 17:28:58 Hmm 17:29:18 WWW isn't working, but IRC seems to be? 17:29:41 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:30:19 Skype seems to be working too 17:32:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:32:41 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:33:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:35:36 So... I shouldn't learn C++? 17:36:50 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:38:47 I'm just being a jerk ^^ 17:39:00 :P 17:39:10 I'm looking for a language to learn that isn't Haskell. 17:39:10 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 17:39:34 Because, while Haskell is great and all, it's all I know other than a little Python and less VB 17:39:35 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:40:00 !c printf("Then learn %c\n", unix["OCAML"]); 17:40:05 Then learn C 17:40:22 Okay, can you recommend a C tutorial? 17:40:27 Nope! 17:40:32 Yay! 17:41:11 RocketJSquirrel: it's capitalised "OCaml", which would have worked just as well 17:41:27 ais523: Yeah, I realized that too late. 17:41:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:42:09 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:44:32 Bye! 17:44:33 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 17:44:53 -!- RocketJSquirrel has set topic: Watch me pull this topic out of my hat! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 17:47:05 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:50:13 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:01:14 -!- monqy has joined. 18:03:58 -!- sidneycavalanti has joined. 18:04:03 -!- itidus21 has joined. 18:04:09 e ai rapaziada 18:04:46 hi 18:05:37 `welcome sidneycavalanti 18:05:40 -!- sidneycavalanti has left. 18:05:41 sidneycavalanti: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 18:05:44 Well 18:05:46 That worked well. 18:07:56 You just did a causality violation. 18:09:15 google celebrates origami grandmaster akira yoshizawa.. wiki page includes link to Tribute by David Lister (no relation to red dwarf) 18:10:14 i only mentioned it for the red dwarf reference 18:10:25 Do you agree/disagree some of Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth? 18:10:36 itidus21: Make sure you keep us up to date on all potential Red Dwarf references. 18:13:27 " Then learn C" lol 18:14:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:14:46 Hello! 18:15:09 hi 18:17:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 18:23:16 -!- MSleep has joined. 18:24:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:25:05 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:26:35 Once I saw some question asking if "I is" can be used in English language. Now I have a second question to go with it, which is if "i is" can be used in English language. 18:27:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:27:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:27:19 borat uses it 18:27:32 at least in my imagination he does 18:28:22 i is savvy to right grammar feel me? 18:29:09 I was thinking of "i is the square root of negative one". 18:29:51 that would be the textual rorschach test 18:30:06 OK 18:30:55 sorry 18:31:04 you probably want to field your comments to more than one person 18:31:59 Funny, this Chromium (17) doesn't do a 'fi' ligature in the text, where a Firefox (10) does. 18:34:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:34:24 (Even though 17 is like seven more than 10.) 18:34:35 "I is a word" ;)? 18:34:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:35:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:35:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:35:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:38:06 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 18:47:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit). 18:57:30 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:59:06 -!- elliott has joined. 19:01:48 08:53:53: "For the next release I’m trying to decide whether to roll to one of the super-bloated newer Linux kernels or write my own USB stack plus SATA and UDMA drivers for 2.0.28." 19:01:49 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:01:52 olsner: he's great isn't he 19:02:01 lolwow 19:02:23 (same guy as libc4) 19:02:44 Figured 19:03:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:05:01 hi oerjan 19:05:05 hi elliott 19:05:49 nice, proggit found a "Single-process, event-driven server from 1999!" 19:06:04 Uhh, such as most servers from 1999? 19:06:23 Let's serve like it's 1999? 19:06:30 nodelivescript.com 19:06:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:08:14 17:40:00: !c printf("Then learn %c\n", unix["OCAML"]); 19:08:14 17:40:05: Then learn C 19:08:16 RocketJSquirrel: how 19:08:23 is unix even a standard symbol 19:08:26 16:38:40: The UK's going to lose Eurovision this year. 19:08:26 16:38:42: Again. 19:08:36 did someone tell them there's only one winner each year? 19:08:37 !c printf("%d\n", unix); // @elliott 19:08:39 1 19:08:55 RocketJSquirrel: Pollution :'( 19:08:56 elliott: likely not standard-standard, but one of the symbols you can #ifdef to see if you're on unix 19:09:05 NAMESPACE POLLUTION 19:09:10 Yeah, it's a gross one. 19:09:13 For that matter, 19:09:18 !c printf("%d\n", linux); 19:09:20 1 19:09:23 Hadurp 19:09:56 :'( 19:10:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:10:16 !c printf("Best letter: %c", __DBL_DIG__["ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ"]); 19:10:18 Best letter: P 19:10:42 At least it's got the __s, though. 19:11:13 According to "gcc -E -dD -x c /dev/null", "linux" and "unix" are the only underscoreless ones here. 19:12:40 !c printf("%c", "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"[_POSIX_VERSION%26]); 19:12:42 q 19:12:45 YES. 19:13:20 Well that's the best way to check your POSIX version. 19:14:36 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 19:15:45 !c printf("%d",_POSIX_VERSION); 19:15:47 200112 19:17:07 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:17:12 !c printf("%c", unix[__VERSION__]); 19:17:15 ​. 19:17:24 . 19:17:40 Oh, I should've printed it with %d for more confusion. 19:17:44 !c printf("%d", unix[__VERSION__]); 19:17:46 46 19:17:51 It's obviously a V46 Unix. 19:18:24 lol 19:18:56 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:21:09 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:21:23 shachaf: "appEndo looks a lot less like a magic spell when you spell it app_endo" --DanBurton 19:21:50 appéndo. 19:23:12 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 19:23:27 appEndo functio 19:23:58 (spells are _supposed_ to be broken latin, right?) 19:25:55 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:25:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:26:10 argh, crapinternet 19:26:45 for some reason this open IRC connection works although any new outgoing connections are broken 19:26:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:26:47 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:26:59 i had that happen once. 19:27:05 it was dns which was done 19:27:09 *down 19:27:13 iirc 19:27:51 well, ping and dns works... 19:28:01 -!- augur has joined. 19:28:12 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:28:20 or wait was it that even weirder case when my isp lost contact with most places outside norway 19:28:29 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:28:55 but i could log on to nvg, and from there to anywhere. or was it more complicated than that. 19:29:01 seems I'll have to get a server someplace on the internet, then do ip-over-ping to that server 19:29:20 fancy 19:29:49 or just switch ISP to something that doesn't require this netgear crap 19:30:28 ip-over-ping :D 19:31:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:36:32 i keep flying into trees 19:36:49 somehow i have never had that problem. 19:37:23 :/ 19:37:47 my problem is more of the never managing to take off kind. 19:37:55 do you have any ideas for better names for [[EsoInterpreters]]? :P 19:38:14 Esorters. Wait, no, "better". Sorry. 19:38:15 I suppose [[Interpreters in esoteric languages]] would work, but that could be used for implementations of /non-esoteric/ languages in esolangs 19:38:20 i don't see what's wrong with it. 19:38:22 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 19:38:44 [[Interpreters of esoteric languages in esoteric languages by esoteric languages for esoteric languages]]. 19:38:49 oerjan: well the camelcase is very out-of-place and it doesn't offer any useful information beyond "Interpreters" 19:39:02 elliott: well if we get any of those they would probably deserve to be there 19:40:24 oerjan: err, wat? it's meant to be a cross-reference. if you add a column you add a row. thus if i implemented C in Thue, we'd have to add implementations of all the esolangs in C to the table 19:40:34 which is ridiculous 19:40:52 we have many more rows than columns 19:41:23 in fact i've been thinking that if we get much more columns it should be split up, i thought the self-interpreters could be their own table 19:41:27 *many 19:41:36 I think that table wants to be automatically generated 19:41:40 well ok "if you add a row and there are any relevant column entries then you add a column" 19:41:55 olsner: yes, that was what i was going to work on, but then i got annoyed at the page name again. 19:43:01 I think fizzie is on the right track with [[Interpreters of esoteric languages in esoteric languages by esoteric languages for esoteric languages]] 19:43:03 [[X_in_Y]] 19:44:11 How does ip-over-ping work? 19:44:29 badly 19:45:25 olsner: Are you sure it's not lacking few more prepositions? Under esoteric languages alongside esoteric languages betwixt esoteric languages notwithstanding esoteric languages? 19:45:41 zzo38: based on my recent experiments, better than ip-over-internet 19:47:06 well, tcp/ip-over-internet, the ip part is actually somewhat working 19:47:15 fizzie: I'd google for even more prepositions if I could 19:48:01 oerjan: btw i _believe_ that it can be generated with a (hideous) template 19:48:14 so that all you'd need to do is something like 19:48:17 okay 19:49:00 | slashes=[[:///]];bct http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/bct.sss;bct http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Nthern/archive#BCT_interpreter_in_.2F.2F.2F 19:49:07 but i'm not certain. 19:49:45 hmm is Ook! _really_ a joke language? we have worse BF derivatives categorised as languages :P 19:52:19 Today's horoscope include a grand trine of Ven-Mar-Plu and Jup-Mar-Plu. (Actually, Lilith does too.) So, if someone ask you, what is today's horoscope? Then tell them there is the grand trine. If they ask you what that means, tell them it is three objects 120 degrees apart of ecliptic longitude from each other. 19:54:22 istr r/astronomy had pictures of a venus-jupiter conjunction some days ago 19:55:17 or wait is that what this implies today 19:55:17 elliott: hmm, well it was intended as a joke… 19:55:19 There is the Venus-Jupiter conjunction even today it seems; although their ecliptic latitudes differ. 19:55:21 this is as bad as the esolang/not esolang thing 19:55:27 I'd prefer to categorise it as nonjoke, though 19:55:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:56:02 (If there is Ven-Mar-Plu and Jup-Mar-Plu grand trines today, that does imply Venus-Jupiter conjunction) 19:56:16 ais523: we seem to treat direct brainfuck ciphers as joke languages 19:56:18 except when we forget to 19:56:26 ais523: btw, did you hear that someone wrote an underload self-interp? 19:56:28 (but lost it) 19:57:00 elliott: you mean, not the ()^ joke one? 19:57:06 it shouldn't be too hard 19:57:10 I have never looked at the actual planets with a telescope, although I sometimes see moon and planets and stars and so on just looking outside, I can see which direction and how close they are to each other and so on. I can compute horizon view on my computer as well, though. 19:57:16 olsner: 'betwixt' and 'notwithstanding' were from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_prepositions 19:57:22 in fact, it should be pretty easy 19:57:22 ais523: yep 19:57:24 olsner: Not that you probably can see it HA HA AH 19:57:36 "An Underload self-interpreter without cheating would be quite an achievement!" --you, 2007 19:58:09 -!- kmkr has joined. 19:58:11 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:22 the question would be how the input is encoded, no? 19:58:54 church numerals apparently 19:58:55 without encoding, i see no way to evaluate (:^):^ without cheating 19:58:56 hi kmkr! 19:59:09 hi 19:59:17 a question. which one i should learn? haskell, scheme, or lisp? 19:59:29 kmkr: Perhaps learn all three. 19:59:30 i see many esolang related programs are written in haskell 19:59:42 well it's my favorite language these days 20:00:13 heh, when i was writing that i was in fact thinking about your programs :D 20:00:19 what's lisp 20:01:00 I wrote a compiler for the esolang Constantinople, in Haskell. 20:01:14 oerjan and zzo38 are probably to blame for the number of haskell esolang programs 20:01:29 but it's rather popular in here too 20:01:37 kmkr: as far as "lisp" goes, assuming you mean Common Lisp, I wouldn't bother 20:01:40 If you do search in esolang wiki, you can find other things too. 20:01:46 (R5RS) scheme is a far more interesting language in that family 20:02:06 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:02:21 if you learn haskell, scheme will be easy to learn. scheme knowledge helps comparatively less in learning haskell. but scheme is easier to learn coming from a background of "traditional" languages 20:03:31 > nubBy(((>1).).gcd)[2..] 20:03:32 [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101... 20:03:46 ais523: hey, is it possible to do a map over every parameter in mediawiki? 20:03:53 (templates) 20:04:11 not as far as I know, unless you know all the possible parameter names, and only then via the stupidest form of iteration 20:04:38 I seem to remember the devs yelling at the authors of {{for}}, too 20:04:46 ais523: hmm... what do templates that take arbitrary amounts of data do, then? oh, hmm, perhaps I can achieve this with X-Macros 20:04:48 because it produced too much server load, or something 20:04:49 but hmm 20:04:50 Make a MediaWiki extension. 20:04:56 does {{ {{{1}}} | blah }} ever work to invoke a template? 20:04:57 elliott: they cap at an arbitrary number 20:05:00 and yes, it does 20:05:04 it does? 20:05:08 OK, so I can produce a data file like 20:05:08 this is the usual way to do large hash tables 20:05:14 {{ {{{1}}} | name=abc | foo=bar }} 20:05:14 {{ {{{1}}} | name=abc | foo=bar }} 20:05:15 ... 20:05:19 and then call it from other templates 20:05:25 which pass another template as an argument 20:05:28 thus producing a loop 20:05:29 err, yes 20:05:33 where are you going with this? 20:05:40 ais523: trying to generate the [[EsoInterpreters]] table 20:05:47 because it's unmaintainable :P 20:06:08 oerjan: would you recommend any particular haskell implementation? should work in windows. 20:06:19 kmkr: http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/ 20:06:24 kmkr: I use GHC myself. 20:06:32 it includes a windowsy REPL (like python console) 20:06:35 (WinGHCi) 20:06:45 Also, I have sometimes wanted something that includes things of Haskell, Lisp, and Scheme. 20:06:53 kmkr: http://learnyouahaskell.com/ is the best tutorial to learn Haskell with 20:06:55 yeah i use that 20:07:02 for what it's worth :) 20:07:21 thanks 20:07:48 is #haskell still recommendable? 20:07:58 mmmmmm 20:08:00 probably not 20:08:13 #esoteric is the best place for haskell help :p 20:08:27 i guess that's accurate 20:08:41 kmkr: i might as well give the standard advice to forget everything you know about programming, since haskell is so different to everything else 20:08:57 but i guess that's less of a problem for esolangers :P 20:09:00 ah. easily done 20:09:11 kmkr: Here is one Haskell program in esolang wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pure_BF/Implementation 20:09:37 kmkr: i feel compelled to note that zzo38's haskell style is not considered idiomatic. 20:09:43 kmkr: you should perhaps know that zzo38 has a rather d... right :P 20:10:08 i'm not 100% mine is, either, but at least i use layout 20:10:16 elliott: Yes you are correct. But it does not necessarily have to be idiomatic to work. 20:10:43 i suppose it might also be nice to see how different from idiomatic you _can_ program 20:11:04 I just do it the way which makes sense to me 20:11:07 *+sure 20:11:16 ais523: hmm, I have a feeling this may need more template metaprogramming than mediawiki can support 20:11:42 this is usual 20:12:02 > fix((0:).scanl(+)1) 20:12:04 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... 20:13:54 > filterM(const[True,False])[1,2,3] -- and yet another haskell example 20:13:55 oerjan: How is your Haskell programming difference from whatever other style there is? 20:13:55 [[1,2,3],[1,2],[1,3],[1],[2,3],[2],[3],[]] 20:14:30 what does idiomatic even mean in programming? 20:14:52 zzo38: i don't know, i'm just not assuming i'm entirely idiomatic. 20:15:04 It is the compound word of "idiot" and "automatic". 20:15:36 ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird/sandbox/data&action=edit 20:15:44 A VAST IMPROVEMENT 20:15:47 that `flip` idiom i just started using in my BFQdeql might not be very widespread 20:15:52 really? i was thinking of idioms in normal languages 20:16:10 kmkr: no 20:16:12 kmkr: it's pretty much the same as the natural language meaning 20:16:15 well 20:16:16 of "idiomatic" 20:16:19 not of "idiom" really 20:16:21 but otoh i haven't read that much other code 20:16:35 kmkr: idiomatic is not a compound of idiot and automatic 20:16:35 kmkr: i think zzo38 was joking. 20:16:51 Yes I was joking. 20:16:52 kmkr: what me and oerjan were trying to say is that zzo38's programs are written and structured in a very different way than most people skilled in haskell would structure them. 20:17:19 thus reading them is unlikely to help a beginner learn the language :p 20:17:50 I don't think that necessarily means they won't help anyone 20:17:55 i see now 20:18:29 zzo38: i think they're more useful to get a wider perspective once you've learned the basics 20:18:50 probably i'll deviate from the usual way myself once i learn the basics 20:19:12 might take more than learning the basics to be able to productively deviate from the usual style in haskell 20:19:53 that remains to be seen. i have no idea what to expect. 20:20:18 i'm basically starting from zero 20:20:24 with this kind of programming 20:20:27 I think you can learn the basics in any way you just do it in whatever way make most sensible for you. 20:27:58 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 20:31:19 hey oerjan, can you convert [[EsoInterpreters]] to use a wikitable and ths? :P 20:31:38 ths? 20:31:49 -!- olsner has joined. 20:31:58 s 20:32:40 you mean html table syntax? i'm not very familiar with it. 20:32:55 I just meant using ! headings for the language names 20:33:01 ie first row/col 20:33:04 ah. 20:33:10 guess what might look good? some javascript thing where languages would be circles that move in circles and lines with an arrow tip would connect them, pointing which language is implemented in which 20:33:15 well i suppose that should be possible to achieve. 20:33:46 kmkr: you won't catch me implementing that any time soon :P 20:34:35 damn 20:37:03 elliott: it's already trying to use something called "wikitable plainlinks" 20:37:25 plainlinks gets rid of the external link arrow on external links, right? 20:38:04 elliott: oh that was you. i was just about to remove the plainlinks part :P 20:38:40 heh 20:38:46 ais523: right 20:39:15 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:39:38 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:40:33 elliott: like that? 20:41:14 oerjan: yes. except you removed the right-alignment of the text 20:41:24 oh hm 20:41:25 oh just needs s/align="right"/style="text-align: right"/g 20:41:32 no i didn't, i just hit that bug again 20:41:56 not really a bug 20:42:02 i don't think 20:42:44 ok like that then 20:42:52 yay 20:43:09 -!- shadwick has joined. 20:43:11 hi 20:43:17 incidentally i just c/p your s///g line 20:44:12 hi shadwick 20:44:30 oerjan: ok now my secret additional plan is to use some CSS or JS to get crosshair highlighting 20:44:37 i.e. rolling over a cell highlights the column and the row 20:45:39 okay 20:48:00 OK I am 20:48:03 starting this fortress 20:48:16 elliott, also confirm/deny that your name in Hexhamese is Ell Iot the Third. 20:49:52 True. 20:50:56 fortress? 20:52:11 eot the llI (best viewed in a font where l and I look much the same) 20:52:19 shadwick: dwarf 20:52:54 ahh ok 20:55:13 -!- olsner has joined. 20:56:10 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:56:26 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:56:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:57:17 hmm, all the known diff algorithms seem to be O(n^2) worst case 20:57:24 so why does diff not take ages in practice? 20:58:10 because n is small 20:58:16 and they're not worst-case 20:58:32 the worst case seems pretty plausible in practice, though 20:58:44 (one small change near the start, one small change near the end, arbitrary changes elsewhere) 21:01:39 ais523: Do the tools actually guarantee optimal diffs, though? They could just be using windows of reasonable size. 21:02:35 fizzie: I was wondering about that 21:02:35 that also is what i say was going to 21:02:40 but this algo doesn't seem to have a concept of a window 21:02:47 anyway, n is still small 21:03:06 * ais523 gets diffutils source 21:04:57 ais523: If it's the dynamic-programming tabular thing, I think you can retrofit a window into it by restricting things on the "diagonal" (+ fiddling), though I haven't thought this through. 21:06:19 "The basic algorithm is described in "An O(ND) Difference Algorithm and its Variations", Eugene W. Myers, Algorithmica Vol. 1 No. 2, 1986, pp. 251-266; and in "A File Comparison Program", Webb Miller and Eugene W. Myers, Software--Practice and Experience Vol. 15 No. 11, 1985, pp. 1025-1040." Is that / are those the things you were referring to? 21:07:02 I was basing it on the dynamic programming algo in Wikipedia 21:07:30 That was a quotation from the diffutils infopage. 21:07:54 hmm, I'd need a good academic library to get copies of those 21:07:59 I have access to one, but not right now 21:08:02 Not really. 21:08:24 http://www.xmailserver.org/diff2.pdf 21:09:30 fizzie: That's ILLEGAL!!!! (Possibly.) 21:10:04 They say it's O(ND) where D is the size of the edit script, which is small for reasonable files; and O(N+D^2) "random-case". 21:10:25 elliott: meh, I can almost certainly access it legally if I just wait until tomorrow 21:10:25 I guess it's possible. It was the first google-hit for the paper title. 21:11:16 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.4.6927 has a PDF. 21:11:21 Or is CiteSeerX illegal too? 21:11:58 The "download link" there is to xmailserver.org. 21:12:26 Yes, but it has a cached copy. 21:12:46 It's a weird place for that document. 21:13:26 I suppose a mail server could concievably make use of it, maybe, somehow, but still. 21:14:34 oerjan: so, is self-BCT TC? 21:14:51 argh 21:14:54 :D 21:17:40 ais523: Also to finish the quotation, "The algorithm was independently discovered as described in "Algorithms for Approximate String Matching", E. Ukkonen, Information and Control Vol. 64, 1985, pp. 100-118.". I think I've read that, or at least some string paper by Ukkonen. 21:17:46 (A Finnish name.) 21:18:03 (Finnish people are very smart.) 21:18:15 (They're speech recognition researchers and whatnot.) 21:18:20 fizzie: finnish names are reasonably recognizable; I know a few from following Formula 1 21:19:14 Anyway, that last paper is available from the author's page at Helsinki University. 21:19:40 ais523: Too bad they never reach the Finnish line. 21:20:01 Google Scholar finds it; I'd paste a link but I can't quite figure out how to get the actual PDF with this phone. 21:20:20 elliott: I know that was a bad joke, but IIRC there have been Finnish Formula 1 world champions 21:20:23 at least one, anyway 21:20:50 I think >1, though I don't really follow. 21:21:04 nor do I nowadays, although I used to 21:21:08 If not world champions, then at least relatively successful drivers. 21:21:36 (I do follow, of course. We Finns have to do everything we can to see the incredibly rare sight of a Finn winning at anything.) 21:21:45 (But I can't let the foreigners know that.) 21:22:02 Mika Häkkinen and Kimi Räikkönen and Mika Salo are I think people who do things with cars. 21:22:41 (MY FAVOURITES.) 21:23:38 Could you, I don't know, shut up or something? 21:24:08 fizzie: hmm, people never write the accents on their names in the UK 21:24:14 not even on the official commentary thing 21:24:18 is it usual to omit them in Finland too? 21:24:22 fizzie: I think your speech recognition software just malfunctioned. Did someone ask you a question after you said "Could you,"? 21:24:23 Nnno. 21:24:28 The answer got included in your IRC line. 21:25:41 Also I thought Keke Rosberg was a rally driver, but apparently he's a F1 world champion (the first Finnish) too. There's some sort of an idiotic "song" about him. 21:25:51 kekekeke 21:26:02 "Kekekekekekekeke Roosberi Roosberi" or so on. 21:27:25 (The Finnish national anthem.) 21:29:57 elliott: if you're going to troll fizzie, at least make it vaguely good trolling 21:30:11 ais523: This is pretty good by Finnish standards!!! 21:30:42 elliott: no, that would be Mämmi 21:30:53 * oerjan runs away from fizzie 21:32:43 i can only assume fizzie left to invade norway. 21:33:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:01 He's crying, I think. 21:34:07 oh. 21:35:50 -!- augur has joined. 21:37:59 The song, maybe: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keke_Rosberg_formula_rock 21:38:34 This song is about a family father, who bought a family car. 21:38:34 "Dad bought the car, it's pretty tasteless." 21:38:34 Father may be influenced by Rosberg driving style, and he was shipped over to tear around the extensive family of traffic. 21:38:34 "The car is turbocharged, the driver is Urpo. Gas-presses, gas money is a loan, the family kuskaa, not realizing puskaa, where the bollard lurking ... » 21:38:35 Father's racing ends when he drives into the woods, as a result will have a wheelchair . 21:38:37 »... Father driving mettään not known kettään. Away from the father's concern, it is sufficient wheelchair ... » 21:38:40 The boy may later own a moped, and you drive the same style as his father. 21:39:54 Right. 21:40:02 It's in YouTube. 21:40:11 These words ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE TO FINNS 21:40:23 "Matti Kalervo, "Peltsi" not set ( March 28, 1951 in Helsinki - July 13, 1995 Vasa ) was a well-known Finnish actress . He was able to make 50 the role of the film career and became known especially in Aki Kaurismäki's films as an actor standard." 21:40:29 fizzie: How many of your actresses are male? 21:40:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOp4z2MkCOo -- the description mentions a translation. 21:41:25 Sorry, the file you requested is not available. 21:41:26 Possible reasons include: 21:41:26 - File date limit has expired. 21:41:26 - File was not successfully uploaded. 21:41:26 Please contact the uploader and ask them to upload the file again. sendspace is not able to help you in this matter. 21:41:31 Aw. 21:42:20 This is catchy. 21:42:40 The YT comments have some lyrics, but they're not much better than GT. 21:42:57 -!- shadwick has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:43:46 What the bork. 21:44:08 ais523: Did you know that Memory Alpha's main page is [[Portal:Main]]? 21:44:10 You must be so proud. 21:44:20 yay! 21:44:34 ais523: On the other hand, it's a Wikia. 21:44:55 indeed 21:45:02 fizzie: These other-language Wikipedias are so... depressing. 21:45:10 The articles are so pitiful. 21:45:14 "IDW Publishing has announced the release of a Next Generation/Doctor Who crossover comic, entitled Assimilation2." 21:45:15 Haha wtf 21:45:39 "Google's corporate culture has been a slogan "Do not be evil" (Do not be evil), according to which it tends to keep terms with the users, rather than the formation of high-hated company. However, the slogan has occasionally been mentioned by others might be unduly: Google's own corporate presentation, it is the sixth list of ten principles and describes the company's mainly a way to offer ads, that is, to avoid irrelevant, pushy, or disguised ad 21:45:39 s. source?" 21:45:47 RocketJSquirrel: FINALLY. 21:45:56 elliott: This sounds like the worst of all possible ideas X-D 21:46:16 RocketJSquirrel: Next Generation here refers to the Star Trek series? 21:46:22 ais523: Yes. 21:46:22 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9692630/implementing-haskells-maybe-monad-in-c11 21:46:31 RocketJSquirrel: And therefore the best. 21:46:42 and it sounds like the worst of all possible good ideas, to me 21:47:38 -!- derdon has joined. 21:47:52 (well, no, it doesn't, I just wanted to say that) 21:48:59 tahanxse for clarifdiyng 21:49:38 fizzie: That song. It is in my head now. 21:49:40 Curse your Finnish revenge. 21:49:43 I think it might be the best of all possible abysmally bad ideas. 21:50:23 Like being the tallest dwarf. 21:51:53 Or the smartest Intelligent Design advocate. 21:52:59 But what if belief of Intelligent Design operating with evolution? 21:53:02 We had an Intelligent Design seminar at the university once, maybe six-seven years back. It was the weirdest thing. 21:53:19 fizzie: OK then explain 21:53:28 wtf just happened 21:54:01 Did you know that the idea of the eye evolving is as ludicrous as an LP record that can be flipped around? 21:54:09 Or something like that. 21:54:28 It was mostly weird metaphors like that. 21:54:53 Some (not necessarily all) LP records can be flipped around. What is the point of metaphors like that? 21:55:45 clearly an LP that can be flipped around couldn't possibly evolve, because what use would it be to have half a song on the other side? 21:56:12 RocketJSquirrel: hi 21:56:27 the point of metaphors are to flip around, before they fall flat on the floor, butter side down. 21:56:28 Maybe if it is too long to fit on one side of a single record. 21:56:30 But what if belief of Intelligent Design operating with evolution? 21:56:30 elliott: OH GOD HELP ME 21:56:33 elliott: WHAT IS GOING ON 21:56:34 *is 21:56:41 zzo38: The two are incompatible by definition. "Intelligent Design" != "intelligent design". 21:56:49 It was organized by this http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Leisola dude. 21:56:51 elliott: O, OK. 21:56:54 (e.g., intelligent design of the initial conditions of the universe and evolution are compatible) 21:57:04 (but Intelligent Design, the ideology, specifically contradicts evolution) 21:57:14 *idiology 21:57:25 Yes I know what you mean once you mentioned the capitalization at once. 21:58:35 Ooh, the article mentions our thing. Seems it was in 2004. 21:59:14 With e.g. Richard Sternberg lecturing. 22:00:24 I vaguely recall there were some rather pointed questions from the audience, but not much was accomplished (oh no). 22:00:27 what time zone offset is PST? 22:00:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:06 trying to make sense of this Azure timezone bug 22:01:08 Except the "Skepsis" organization gave Leisola the "Huuhaa" ("woo-woo") award. 22:01:18 oh, UTC-8 22:01:51 ais523: they had another datetime bug? 22:01:53 ais523: Pacific or Philippines? Both use the same abbreviation. 22:02:00 elliott: no, the feb 29 one 22:02:06 fizzie: doesn't say, but I'm guessing Pacific from context 22:02:32 ais523: PST was featured prominently in that horrible "round to midnight" discussion #esoteric had. 22:02:43 Don't remind me. 22:03:08 The fact that one meaning of PST is +8 and one -8 and both are 0 (modulo 8) was also involved. 22:03:15 oh dear 22:04:09 -!- myndzi has joined. 22:05:50 fizzie: Speak of the. 22:05:52 -!- kmkr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:06:41 Anyway, to jump back a bit; Leisola is one of those "microevolution happens, but the real thing doesn't", and I think mostly because he's worked on biochemistry a lot, and it's been so difficult, and therefore it's "ridiculous" to think that evolution could manage to accomplish anything, when he himself hasn't. 22:07:07 Also he thinks the Flood happened, and the Ark had one of each baramin, or whatever. 22:07:09 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:38 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:08:02 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:08:31 * Phantom_Hoover decided to generate a large DF world with history set to very long. 22:08:34 But even given all that, apparently he still has managed to do quite a lot of good chemistry. 22:08:47 It's chugging along at 1 year every second or so. 22:09:01 Phantom_Hoover: dude, what happened to THE FORTRESS YOU WERE BUILDING? 22:10:10 elliott, I had my doubts about the embark site wait it's past ten oh no what 22:10:33 elliott, OK I'll come clean. 22:10:36 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:22 A cavern layer in the wrong place could easily devastate the fortress' design; I stupidly used reveal, and wasn't able to resist the temptation to probe the entire map into boringness. 22:12:03 Phantom_Hoover: Remember when you were all "ME, CHEAT? PFFFT NO YOU'RE PARANOID"? 22:12:29 elliott, come on, I know better now. 22:12:50 I've never used reveal on a running fort, and I've cut back on use of prospect almost entirely. 22:12:57 vdig is too useful to go without, though. 22:16:13 elliott, and anyway, your opposition to me cheating extended to outlawing turning the temperature simulation off, even though it was the only thing keeping large forts playable for me. 22:16:58 Phantom_Hoover: ":'(" -- phantom hoover 22:17:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:17:14 ais523: hey, you're good at proving things sub-TC, right? 22:17:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:17:31 "Phat nom" Hoover. 22:17:38 elliott: moderately good 22:17:41 ais523: excellent 22:17:48 although don't mention something like Dupdog or Xigxag, I don't have a clue with those 22:18:01 * RocketJSquirrel hands elliott a bagel with cream cheese. 22:18:04 Prove this non-TC. 22:18:53 ais523: well, I want to design a language like self-BCT or Clue (Keymaker), except even simpler 22:19:19 hmm, I hate TC proofs for those sorts of languages 22:19:32 that's why I asked for a sub-TC proof! 22:20:05 * RocketJSquirrel hands ais523 an onion bagel with sour cream and caramel sauce. 22:20:08 Prove this non-TC. 22:20:37 * RocketJSquirrel >_> <_< 22:20:44 as any computation must remove a layer of the onion, it eventually terminates. Q.E.D. 22:20:53 elliott: and the reverse :) 22:21:08 bagels, are we talking about bagels now? 22:21:09 Today we learn that oerjan doesn't know what a bagel is. 22:21:13 bagels bagels bagels 22:21:50 basically, the thing I don't like about self-BCT is that it has an IP 22:21:58 separate to the notion of a leftmost bit 22:22:07 ditto for Clue (Keymaker) 22:27:47 or, wait, hmm 22:27:53 does self-BCT have a separate IP? 22:27:54 I can't tell 22:27:58 yes 22:28:25 it's pretty clear from the trace example 22:28:51 right 22:29:45 hmm... 22:30:00 0x -> x0 22:30:00 10x -> xx1 22:30:00 11x -> x1 22:30:05 oerjan: BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP TC OR NOT TC 22:30:11 * elliott knows how to get oerjan to do things. 22:30:42 erm this is a rewriting system of sorts? and x is any string? 22:31:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:31:41 every step, it examines the first bits according to the above pattern, and does the appropriate replacement, then starts again 22:31:42 x is any bit 22:31:52 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:31:59 oh so just one bit 22:32:18 um that makes it clearly a pushdown automaton. 22:32:31 so e.g. 0110 -> 1010 -> 1110 -> 110 -> 01 -> 10 -> 111 22:32:38 -> 11 22:32:46 (cyclic) 22:33:08 oh hm, -> 1 i think 22:33:11 same thing, anyway 22:33:21 oerjan: even if it's cyclic? 22:33:47 oh so that's sent to the end? 22:34:01 -!- tzxn3 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:34:01 um i'm not sure what you mean by sent to the end 22:34:16 if the pattern-matching process reaches the end of the string, it wraps around, so to speak 22:34:19 elliott: you are not saying where the _rest_ of the string ends up 22:34:25 oh it says the same. 22:34:30 0x* -> x0* 22:34:31 10x -> xx1* 22:34:34 erm 22:34:36 10x* -> xx1* 22:34:37 11x* -> x1* 22:34:42 where * is all the rest of the bits 22:35:00 elliott: and the pattern is always the leftmost bits? then it's a pushdown automaton. 22:35:24 and if it isn't, then you still have a separate ip like self-bct 22:35:30 hmm... right 22:35:36 FIRST ATTEMPT: FAILED 22:35:40 :'( 22:35:55 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:36:37 ais523: hmm, is it actually possible for admins to see deleted revisions of images? 22:36:54 not sure; it used not to be, but that mat have changed 22:38:14 Is it possible for admins to see deleted people? 22:38:31 I SEE DELETED PEOPLE 22:38:34 oerjan: hmm, i think what i want is impossible 22:38:52 oerjan: the thing i didn't like about self-bct/keymaker-clue was that they had "non-local" modifications 22:39:08 elliott: well i was thinking if you do 0x* -> *x0 instead... 22:39:09 keymaker-clue adds things to the "beginning of the string", away from the IP 22:39:17 self-BCT deletes the left of the string 22:39:24 I wanted a possibly-TC language where everything was "local" to the IP 22:39:44 oerjan: that could work. and /arguably/ doesn't violate my local requirement... 22:39:46 oh, wait, yes it does 22:39:53 it's equivalent to deleting the first few chars and appending to the end of the program 22:39:54 elliott: if you consider it a cycle, then doing things both at the beginning and end is still local 22:40:03 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:40:08 hm right 22:40:46 and afair tag systems with a fixed program are like that, so _some_ set of rules for this will be tc. 22:40:55 0x* -> *x0 22:40:55 10x* -> xx1* 22:40:55 11x* -> x1* 22:40:57 there's this, then 22:41:30 huh 22:41:43 0110 -> 1010 22:41:52 -> 1110 22:43:12 -> 110 22:43:24 -> 01 22:43:40 -> 10 -> 01 -> ... 22:43:46 oerjan: what's the huh for, btw? 22:45:23 oerjan: oh hm i think this doesn't work because the number of 0s is always <= 22:45:31 so instead 22:45:32 0x* -> *x0 22:45:32 10x* -> xx1* 22:45:32 11x* -> x0* 22:45:40 oh but then the same applies to 1s :P 22:45:53 oh no it doesn't 22:45:58 in fact, it didn't apply to the original either 22:45:59 my huh was because most of your rules still do things only at the beginning. i wasn't thinking like that. 22:46:25 hmm... 100 -> 001 -> 100 -> 001 -> ... 22:46:27 (with the original rules) 22:46:34 oerjan: right. 22:47:23 the original never increases no. of 0's 22:47:57 0x* -> *x0 22:47:57 10x* -> xx1* 22:47:57 11x* -> x1* 22:48:00 this is what i meant by original 22:48:04 ok i'll start actually versoning them 22:48:12 yes so did i 22:48:20 oh hm 22:48:24 100 doesn't increase number of 0s 22:48:26 because it eats an 0 too 22:48:36 OK, let's call this v0: 22:48:36 0x* -> *x0 22:48:36 10x* -> x*x1 22:48:36 11x* -> x0* 22:48:58 100 -> 001 -> 100 -> 001 -> ... again 22:49:16 1100 -> 000 -> 000 22:50:11 not to mention _none_ of your suggestions increase the length of the string. 22:50:29 oerjan: erm 10x* -> x*x1 does. 22:50:39 no it doesn't 22:54:31 back 22:54:35 oerjan: sorry, i'm an idiot. 22:55:47 ok, let me try this again :P 22:56:04 0x* -> *x 22:56:04 1x* -> xx*1 22:56:04 oh hm, broken 22:56:08 it all seems a little random. 22:56:10 never decreases # of 1s 22:56:20 oerjan: yes :( 22:56:29 i was trying to simplify it there. 22:58:15 um 11* -> 11*1 does increase 22:58:28 oh wait you said decrease 22:58:50 that's not _necessarily fatal, see sqeql 22:58:53 *+_ 22:59:03 hmm 22:59:48 1101 -> [1|1]01 -> 11011 -> [1|1]011 -> 110111 -> ok this one is obvious 23:02:19 011 -> [0|1]1 -> 11 -> [1|1] -> 111 23:02:30 -> [1|1]1 -> 1111 23:02:38 -> [1|1]11 -> 11111 -> obvious 23:02:55 pretty sure they all just start spamming 1s eventually 23:04:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:52 10 - 001 - 10 - ... 23:05:23 Not that it's terribly interesting, but it doesn't spam 1s. 23:06:30 OK, "anything with more than a negligble amount of 1s starts spamming 1s eventually". 23:07:30 101010 - 0010101 - 101010 - ... and that can have an arbitrary amount of 1s. :p 23:08:12 I knew you'd do that. 23:08:27 You're like speech recognition software. 23:08:30 Unforgiving and stupid. :( 23:10:55 I think this is what they call a "burn". 23:11:31 10100 - 001001 - 10010 - 000101 - 01010 - 0101 - 010 - 01 - 1 - don't know where to go from there. 23:16:06 Can you recognize all patterns that won't halt? 23:16:35 Are they always repeating? 23:18:19 fizzie: It's cycli. 23:18:32 So 1 falls under the 1x* rule, with x=1. 23:18:43 Turning into 111. 23:21:15 If I compile a C++ program with -g, what's a simple way to match instructions to source code lines? 23:21:36 gdb 23:21:44 Wait, you said simple. 23:22:25 Roll your own DWARF reader 23:24:28 Ask the assembler to make a listing for you, with source lines as comments. 23:25:15 Ask rms. 23:26:22 Ask rjs. 23:26:27 * RocketJSquirrel zooooom! 23:26:35 Oops, I wasn't compiling with -g. 23:26:52 shachaf: Enjoy an hour and a half of recompiling to get that option in place. 23:27:48 RocketJSquirrel: This is one file. 23:27:54 With a few hundred lines. 23:28:17 Still! It's a minute per line! 23:28:20 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 23:28:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:28:25 Most of them are comments. 23:28:35 Even so. 23:29:06 Well, not most. 23:31:07 So why is lea 0x1(%rdx),%r8d taking 90% of the program's CPU time? 23:31:29 That doesn't make sense. Maybe it's the line right before. 23:31:35 You increment a lot, maybe. 23:33:26 sir incsalot 23:34:16 Per-instruction timings, are, like, so *fancy*. (--Mr. just-instruments-functions-with-gprof.) 23:36:26 If only I had functions. :-( 23:36:33 ais523: Speaking of nothing at all (but web'o'flies ~~ strace), I heard resize2fs breaks down if you try to run it under strace. 23:36:50 YAY, STRACE 23:37:02 I ran gdb under strace yesterday. 23:37:18 I ran strace under gdb under strace yesterday. 23:37:23 I gotta try debugging gdb with gdb one time 23:38:10 hmm, *some time 23:38:25 I was trying to figure out how gdb implements "call" 23:38:43 kind of like how it does print, but without the printing part 23:39:13 Except that call *does* print the result. 23:39:26 But fine. I was trying to figure out how gdb implements "print". 23:39:34 call prints too? 23:39:51 There's a thing called SystemTap which is, like, the fanciest thing since sliced bread when it comes to tracing, http://sourceware.org/systemtap/tutorial/Tracing.html 23:39:56 maybe call just has the option not to print, so that it can handle functions without return values 23:40:05 fizzie: weird; why would an ext2 resizer break under strace? 23:40:22 only thing I can think of is that it has timing-sensitive critical sections, or something 23:40:38 perhaps it should be impossible to ptrace a process at realtime priority 23:41:17 ais523: "Reads from disk normally are never short except in the case of disk 23:41:17 errors. strace causes this not to be true, but I don't intend to "fix" 23:41:17 this. 23:41:20 " 23:41:43 Writes Ted Ts'o, and closes the bug as wontfix. 23:41:59 I don't see why strace would cause short reads 23:42:12 fizzie: re SystemTap: Pah, it should just . 23:42:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 23:42:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:42:46 elliott: that won't fit into 510 characters when we run the rewrite script! 23:42:46 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:43:13 (note: the @ log rewrite script necessarily has to be AI-complete, given the job we're trying to get it to do; it has to delete this line, for instance) 23:43:38 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:43:39 so that's how the world ends. 23:44:02 by the rewrite script deciding that it has to delete all of humanity 23:44:28 ais523: no, no 23:44:38 ais523: it is not the rewrite script's problem if you said nonsense in 2012. 23:44:59 elliott: doesn't it have to hide the fact it existed? 23:45:12 No. 23:45:55 ais523: It was in the context of attaching strace to a running process; maybe that could interrupt a read? 23:48:36 I don't think it's read from an actual disk is something that can normally be interrupted, but maybe ptrace's special. 23:48:48 s/it's/a/ 23:49:12 fizzie: Your speech recognition software can read regexps? 23:52:04 "Semi-protected for a period of 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Planck times. After 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Planck times the page will be automatically unprotected." 23:52:07 --WP 23:56:54 `frink 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Planck times -> seconds 23:57:05 Warning: undefined symbol "Planck". \ Warning: undefined symbol "times". \ Warning: undefined symbol "Planck". \ Warning: undefined symbol "times". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Planck (undefined symbol) times (undefined symbol) -> 1 s (time) 23:57:29 shocking 23:57:49 `frink planck time 23:58:00 Warning: undefined symbol "time". \ 1 m^2 s^-1 kg (angular_momentum) time (undefined symbol) 23:58:22 `frink planck 23:58:32 1 m^2 s^-1 kg (angular_momentum) 23:59:12 is that an official unit? 23:59:19 -!- augur has joined.