< 1330128185 978609 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! i need some help with a ballistic calculation. i've this formula: Range = (InitialVelocity^2 x sine (2 x Angle)) / g ..now i need to modify it, so i can calculate the range so it works if shot from a specified height. can you help? < 1330128186 165399 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read more: How to Calculate the Distance of a Projectile | eHow.com < 1330128197 935028 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1330128212 210791 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore the read more thing < 1330128263 186987 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i probably could < 1330128298 482733 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i could do that problem < 1330128341 460366 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any hints are welcome < 1330128428 394325 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flight time of a projectile is -.5*g*t^2+V_0*sin(theta)*t+h_0=0 < 1330128432 996972 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the positive solution thereof < 1330128452 550858 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, apply quadratic formula, using the plus solution < 1330128496 707406 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is t? < 1330128527 684049 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the time < 1330128557 422000 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no..i don't get it < 1330128566 311715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the range is V_0*cos(theta)*t (where t is calculated as previously described) < 1330128576 705305 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1330128579 484343 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ..thx < 1330129088 825638 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, update < 1330129474 740113 :Friendship!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :My Little Stallman: Freedom is Magic | So good to be in the Morning....In America! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1330130115 823510 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DF7F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330131424 24664 :smartinsrenato!~renato@213.69.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1330131430 184539 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330131476 698321 :smartinsrenato!~renato@213.69.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt PART :#esoteric < 1330132105 325928 :cheater__!~cheater@dslb-084-057-000-195.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330132196 140853 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-004-229.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1330133082 838693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone suggested for me to make roguelike game once; maybe I could make up "Extensible-Roguelike", using Haskell, and extensible-data and hampp. If you want to add rule variants, spells, kind of creatures, classes, items, areas, macros, etc, then you can just add a file. < 1330133090 528537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then recompile the program. < 1330133105 602597 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than having to adjust the entire program to work with any changes you have made. < 1330133186 345911 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: NO SEND < 1330133284 161682 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330134010 627090 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, i don't like academization of what can loosely be termed scripting languages. I am just glad that you can't patent a grammatical structure in english. < 1330134034 103917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1330134036 368591 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An author could rise to prominence by being the only one allowed to split an infinitive. < 1330134056 268891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1330134080 712338 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could buy a license to legally split infinitives from him. < 1330134119 563551 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'd make millions from Star Trek royalties alone. < 1330134194 954177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different patent, getting royalties from Star Wars would require. < 1330134297 351248 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap that's hilarious. < 1330134374 381085 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now heres something to consider. < 1330134387 394490 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a machine which translates english into algorithms < 1330134402 597134 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get away with coding all your software in english and dodge patents? < 1330134415 709248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION demands royalties from itidus20 for violating his apostrophe omission patent < 1330134420 935470 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not.. i am not thinking it through < 1330134460 320268 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. if you speak and a machine nearby with a microphone and voice recognition just happens to overhear you < 1330134476 842074 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just happens to process your speech and perform some calculations < 1330134494 403883 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if they outlaw that perhaps freedom of speech is being challenged < 1330134554 305129 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooool < 1330134578 58621 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330134775 260692 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1330134849 521992 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330134916 885992 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, Debian doesn't have sudo? < 1330134949 352333 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by default it seems < 1330135301 381398 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, or gcc, or g++, even. < 1330135406 611339 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pays the royalties. < 1330135427 260980 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Unlike Ubuntu, Debian sticks with the classique root-password system by default. < 1330135440 650229 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you install sudo, you have to add users to the "sudo" group for them to have Ubuntu-like sudo privs. < 1330135458 838347 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330135466 77538 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, of course it doesn't have compilers installed by default. < 1330135480 620469 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm doing that right now < 1330135482 14391 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1330135486 194853 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm installing emacs first. :P < 1330135558 701126 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good though because I'll probably pick up a few sysadmin things along the way < 1330135562 833909 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many though < 1330135576 565827 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should run Arch or Gentoo or something for a crash course, I think. < 1330135751 259023 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently I'm supposed to use visudo.. < 1330136070 537585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking not necessary... visudo locks the sudoers file and performs syntax checks afterwards. < 1330136732 243490 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330136779 11117 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: so basically I just add myself to the sudo group....? < 1330136828 48044 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeyup. < 1330136904 254133 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious as to what happens when he tries to edit sudoers with something other than visudo REBELLIOUSLY AGAINST THE RULES OF THE SUDOER FILE. < 1330137090 556016 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: hmmm, apparently not < 1330137140 855230 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that spaghetti carbonara = delicious < 1330137229 924792 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so I added myself to sudo but sudo complains that I'm not in the sudoers file... < 1330137373 738322 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as root) usermod -a -G sudo adam < 1330137390 478529 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/group confirms that I'm there... < 1330137503 201247 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your currently running login probably isn't in the sudo group. < 1330137512 205371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groups are a per-process property. < 1330137533 195971 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/group, IIRC, is just used by /bin/login to set your initial groups. < 1330137550 258118 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1330137556 230155 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of weird. < 1330137562 386922 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can't change someone's group mid session... < 1330137675 747851 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1330137778 596419 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330139653 607457 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: U MEAN LINUX NOT PERFECT OS????? < 1330140042 909931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1330140314 242682 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, tswett has been UIPDATED < 1330140359 906511 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE < 1330140368 49690 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I've added xmonad stuff to my .xsession < 1330140375 84698 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Debian apparently doesn't execute that by default? < 1330140458 511796 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's no cabal... < 1330140463 294701 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.cabal < 1330140464 932922 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is going on... < 1330140484 62982 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Sgeo has been WILCOED. < 1330140521 779881 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what that means >.> < 1330141109 248218 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330141263 718842 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no swapon/swapoff < 1330141265 287923 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwwtttfff < 1330141300 93126 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see. < 1330141302 744656 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in roots bin < 1330141304 234432 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not mine < 1330141520 159558 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so one of the tests of syb runs out of memory < 1330141522 302407 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't install xmonad < 1330141525 685631 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIEM TO GET MORE MEMORY? < 1330141713 153857 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330142028 129816 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something strangely pleasant about configuring this all by hand < 1330142307 816924 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330142339 255118 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330142409 575954 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be any reason not to move /root/bin to some other bin in my default PATH? < 1330142419 602770 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, recursively copy it, rather. < 1330142478 111442 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only elliott were here. he would tell me how horrible of an idea that is. < 1330142517 248211 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it in recursive handwriting < 1330142605 869994 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330142655 651119 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1330142728 949632 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also would there be a reason not to copy my /etc and home directories from this install to my real install in order to speed up the setup time? < 1330142972 292737 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just copy my bash history and run most of that verbatim. :P < 1330143000 844061 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330143018 206474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1330143023 315389 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net NICK :monqy < 1330143119 662592 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what I've been doing for the past 30 minutes: < 1330143125 787930 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to cabal install xmonad < 1330143130 999283 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :find out I'm missing some kind of *-dev package < 1330143137 732224 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install that. wait for it install like 30 packages. < 1330143142 191469 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat. < 1330143378 355073 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Layout.OneBig < 1330143385 638457 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Layout.Roledex < 1330143390 908660 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are good names < 1330143436 510573 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Layout.Dishes < 1330143482 312862 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Layout.Accordion < 1330143485 800449 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Layout.BoringWindows < 1330143755 184645 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1330143782 522407 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is a lot of modules < 1330143786 819748 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be like 5 lines of code in each one. :P < 1330143814 672170 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think this xmonad-contrib now. nevermind < 1330143859 535701 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330144471 955206 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like... < 1330144482 639007 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, there's a .cabal directory < 1330144490 842378 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I can't find cabal stuff anywhere. < 1330144493 462407 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1330144502 644477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330144540 421003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com TOPIC #esoteric :My Little Stallman: Freedom is Magic | So good to be in the Daytime....In America! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1330144659 92376 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, oh... < 1330144665 432425 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so... apparently sudo installs things in /root < 1330144668 301634 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1330144722 120723 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how do I get Debian's sudo to run exactly like Ubuntu's. :P < 1330144787 799248 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330144962 641230 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defaults env_keep += HOME < 1330144963 16728 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1330145246 860874 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330146612 574715 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1330146876 915372 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330146882 176662 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1330147142 389840 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330148109 457561 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330148634 35324 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330148815 703403 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330148970 764238 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330149104 311115 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finns! < 1330149160 614099 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION  < 1330149180 819702 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-115-181.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330149349 646151 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330149823 601474 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330149847 214730 :PiRSquared17!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :area|away < 1330150050 311216 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330150130 674392 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330150567 546982 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330150713 670462 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330150921 721475 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330150947 716719 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330150995 497468 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330152191 894140 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330153950 500283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about my ideas for Ibtlfmm programming language (I might eventually write a specification document, and/or a compiler, and/or a tag in Phlogjournal for stuff I occasionally write about it). One thing is that unlike Haskell, a class can be many things; it can be: a type signature of a method, a tag, a type family, a mathematical law, or a combination of classes. < 1330154092 372319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need to make methods into separated classes, it already is; if you want to define superclasses afterward you can do so if it can be automatic; if something can be equivalently defined using one function or using multiple others, it can be added on later and work both ways (such as a monad using bind or join/fmap); etc < 1330155401 475235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have opinion about this? < 1330156424 34369 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330156700 192472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea of kinds is * for ordinary inhabited types, # for raw types (using LLVM or whatever is going to be used), + for natural number types, & for constraints, @ for program modules, and -> as the function between kinds. User-defined kinds have alphanumeric names. < 1330158711 769563 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-115-181.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330158763 645493 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330158769 236962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1330158769 423398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330158939 26060 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-120-138.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330159250 136036 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can have many levels of meta-programming available. < 1330160248 223568 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330162410 574762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330162697 724424 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330163273 863618 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@stu-242-155-171-184.champlain.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1330164517 763617 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330164643 850707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic Input/Output Commander guy is at work on his page :-D < 1330164650 460235 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330164761 888197 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he encoded a display of the lime slices in BIOC :-D < 1330164795 55504 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@PiRSquared17 i happened to read logs and to answer your question, i think i did that "!!!attention!!!" thing a few times to get people roused. although it was probably useless because i was largely here at wrong times and nobody was around. < 1330164795 242303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1330164825 797568 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. is @ doing something? < 1330164843 722232 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to PiRSquared17: i happened to read logs and to answer your question, i think i did that "!!!attention!!!" thing a few times to get people roused. although it was probably useless because i was largely here at wrong times and nobody was around. < 1330164865 737794 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit that it's annoying as f::: and i wouldn't do so today, 7 years later. < 1330164970 319081 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one learns better... anyway. now when i'm here, i want to thank everyone for making truth-machines, it's truly great to see so many of them in languages i didn't know almost anything about. < 1330165261 880336 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i meant, i'm always timing my visits when nobody else is here... :\ < 1330165537 465236 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i could just as well inquire if anyone has tried "hollow"? i find the language surprisingly expressive and making a self-interpreter is something that's on my list. < 1330165600 982482 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Hu? < 1330165640 135645 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Glass kthx? < 1330165671 396927 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolanguage from 2005 < 1330165743 159457 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stlang has pattern matching, anonymous functions and sadly no constructors no destructors < 1330165757 776716 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can implement constructors in 20 seconds. < 1330165766 264091 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructors in 40s < 1330165784 746031 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe < 1330165786 313579 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. no < 1330165794 72526 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructors are way more complicated. < 1330165816 215499 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. ok < 1330165819 437808 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has destructors < 1330165829 724863 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Objects are Pythonobjects, so that wouldn't be a problem < 1330165835 423485 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. then 40s ;) < 1330166133 353246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330166182 331485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330166191 17333 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1330166460 189743 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1330166505 686977 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/5aGioOj3 < 1330166839 890801 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, has anyone managed anything in sortle? it's an esolang from some years back that i think might be worth some interest. i've tried to take a crack at it a few times but haven't managed anything worth mentioning. < 1330166936 952688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1330166944 224665 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling there might be ways to program in it even if it might get complicated like /// (which i still don't get...) < 1330166944 977820 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@stu-242-155-171-184.champlain.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330166989 303865 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330167143 225223 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1330167524 130005 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1330167941 401317 :kmkr!5d6a0460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.106.4.96 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1330168149 842980 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-237.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330168158 375900 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-235.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330168366 63008 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B8BA.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330168852 924769 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1330169010 535444 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330169179 957760 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/AWE5cttL <- good luck finding a hello world programm :D < 1330169287 529441 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck being brickbrained by Phantom Hoover < 1330170317 929721 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330170812 860395 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1330171252 290263 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :brickbrained? < 1330171286 284896 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1330171554 11508 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. there's a bug anyway < 1330172375 278996 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-120-138.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330173033 527218 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B8BA.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330173218 884053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ mRoman quote 806 < 1330173222 20585 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: 806) BF derivatives are a cancer running throughout the fringes of the esolang community, and as the fringes vastly outweigh the core, we're screwed. < 1330173374 811506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seem to be no quotes about the bricks, but it's the usual response. < 1330173424 30050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is this a spambot or something? I just got a user talk page message from Phantom Hoover about the BF-inspired languages, the "brick brain brochure." < 1330173436 848686 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. < 1330173478 655979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog brickbrain < 1330173503 100425 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23910 < 1330174253 35502 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brickbrains mRoman  < 1330174322 542574 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman, HW is trivial, BtW; you can pad the program out with empty loops to set the iptr. < 1330174393 880469 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't know what I've thought when I wrote that ;) < 1330174404 179673 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Brainfuck :) < 1330175076 309749 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Glass has no inheritance. At least nothing like that is mentioned in the article. < 1330175981 626262 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a08.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1330176046 415048 :area|away!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1330176412 577064 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it doesn't. < 1330176418 183054 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no typing, so you can always duck it. < 1330176421 457246 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1330176528 22915 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ic. < 1330176543 381925 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stlang has also no typing, which is why you can cast a class in any other class < 1330176753 94260 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stlang has no builtin classes < 1330176759 911422 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of powerful builtin functions. < 1330176925 778577 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what exactly do you wanna know? < 1330177350 359194 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330177413 209263 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330178292 936707 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1330178332 103708 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1330178848 757091 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330178943 414220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330178963 415636 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330178975 85517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330178997 226267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1330179042 281829 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!elloH < 1330179523 57235 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hloel! < 1330179573 900351 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!olleH < 1330180815 293628 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1330180827 218555 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330180946 81245 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330181269 366503 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1330181302 660195 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :134 builtin-functions yet, to be precisely. < 1330181317 613215 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :including duplicates. < 1330181325 345038 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably around 100. < 1330181615 912240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, this is going to be impossible to debug < 1330181641 728687 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've written an interpreter for a tiny fexpr language in Scheme < 1330181653 930594 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then some library code for that language to make it enough like Scheme that it can run said interpreter < 1330181672 642710 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's broken. < 1330182388 281048 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-128-139.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330182812 610455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if you need to debug you have already lost < 1330182835 792398 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1330183046 182171 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh a metacircular evaluator serves as its own test suite *and* reference implementation < 1330183049 750873 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's kinda nice < 1330183254 426828 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found the bug < 1330183360 582165 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330183449 38666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330184609 177453 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaargh < 1330184841 799876 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330184857 79576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330185794 487359 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330185813 93545 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330186710 99253 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330187148 123363 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e8f7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330187917 929326 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1330188089 419876 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330188098 432926 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1330188143 170359 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330188234 420119 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1330188476 736470 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :TogetherForever < 1330189008 26104 :TogetherForever!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :WhnvrUNeedSmebdy < 1330189297 942406 :WhnvrUNeedSmebdy!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1330191022 253939 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..hey. < 1330191589 356810 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330192858 352651 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330193757 720009 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :invex < 1330193773 554187 :invex!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hey.. < 1330194080 857161 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're very /nicky. < 1330194252 836910 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: hi I just installed xinit how do I make Xorg happen? < 1330194270 188715 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I log in, specifically < 1330194274 793621 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or after < 1330194280 139005 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whenever it's supposed to happen automatically < 1330194282 57683 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know < 1330194659 61014 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, depends on distro? On Debian the easiest way is to install a DM. < 1330194712 355415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1330194720 215263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Input/Output_Commander&curid=8301&diff=30609&oldid=30582 ... < 1330195031 537145 :invex!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE ARRGHH (ragequit ;) ... ) < 1330195036 741457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1330195173 804930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1330195174 214538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site. < 1330195174 401369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following text is what triggered our spam filter: http://cheap-viagra < 1330195174 860785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1330195176 671979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--MediaWiki < 1330195220 268467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: btw linking has always been case-sensitive < 1330195223 326071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not in the first letter < 1330195657 901888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I *got* it, I just didn't get it in any deeper sense. < 1330195669 13260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure whether there was any deeper sense I was missing in the first place. < 1330195700 955376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:02:51: "I LIKE WRITING BIG, IT MAKES ME FEEL COOL" -- Friendship, 2005 < 1330195701 141944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:02:55: I /probably/ said this. < 1330195702 273379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: You did. < 1330195824 983607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:36:51: wow that jhix guy.. he's 14 and he's writing interpreters in haskell and he knows lambda calculus and everything!!!!!! < 1330195825 209292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that at 13 :'( < 1330195888 370765 :kallisti_!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330196029 683926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:55:16: wait, Debian doesn't have sudo? < 1330196029 870541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:55:49: not by default it seems < 1330196047 101458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti Yes, Debian does have sudo by default, you just ignored my explicit and direct instructions on how to get it to use sudo by default. < 1330196047 288073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1330196058 213785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti And Ubuntu doesn't have gcc by default either. < 1330196058 400365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1330196073 118151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Debian isn't root-password-only these days. < 1330196077 715930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default installer mode supports setting up sudo. < 1330196130 166272 :kallisti!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330196130 579659 :kallisti!~eris@h151.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1330196130 766620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1330196199 12427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:00:09: would there be any reason not to move /root/bin to some other bin in my default PATH? < 1330196199 199164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the fuck did you even get /root/bin? < 1330196217 368573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:05:28: also would there be a reason not to copy my /etc and home directories from this install to my real install in order to speed up the setup time? < 1330196217 555243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you want to break things faster. < 1330196231 261006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: turns out that by default sudo doesn't preserve your hold $HOME < 1330196231 515479 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1330196242 424274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you add a line to sudoers that fixes it. < 1330196243 588577 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Friendship: You did. // yeah, I found it X-D < 1330196245 347323 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk:Glass < 1330196248 215389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:37:39: hm, oh... < 1330196248 402255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:37:45: okay, so... apparently sudo installs things in /root < 1330196248 402460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:37:48: ? < 1330196253 104647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not meant to run cabal-install as root. < 1330196253 663711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330196273 574081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: And that's a dangerous setting. < 1330196285 854098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're only meant to run cabal-install as root when you have global instalsl set up, and those aren't recommended.) < 1330196318 459370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap, slim works. < 1330196321 116031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if xmonad works. < 1330196337 324431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait.... does slim use xinit or startx.. < 1330196343 655900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slim isn't maintained. < 1330196356 679764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. < 1330196369 930935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, slim starts X for me, right? < 1330196388 495758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, Keymaker was here. < 1330196403 688070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay this works. < 1330196411 321268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a terminal open in xmonad < 1330196412 282624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY < 1330196416 127993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You should remove all ~/.cabal ~/.ghc you have. < 1330196421 165724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you installed them as root it's horribly broken. < 1330196421 591284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why. < 1330196424 499407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1330196427 787435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I did < 1330196428 387274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1330196429 641583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it < 1330196434 261430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now they're all in $HOME < 1330196451 847707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used "sudo". < 1330196456 878053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo cabal" = wrong. < 1330196465 616787 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, with the setting to keep HOME < 1330196507 663062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though... < 1330196511 208317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1330196514 733656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it should keep all of the env variables... < 1330196516 897930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are meant to run cabal as your ordinary user. < 1330196518 480131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it shouldn't.\ < 1330196521 74155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a massive security hole. < 1330196523 528909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1330196536 638048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1330196540 999757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install ghc < 1330196543 180202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do this < 1330196546 498076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up with a ~/.ghc < 1330196568 146582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get a ~/.ghc as the result of doing that. Why do you think you would? < 1330196610 441557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- I guessed. < 1330196616 253970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently have no .ghc < 1330196629 46489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind < 1330196629 751960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1330196671 83264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason I want to preserve PATH is so that I can use sudo to install things that requires admin privs. < 1330196683 197274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1330196685 554203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOME rather < 1330196687 417124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:37:04: Is this a spambot or something? I just got a user talk page message from Phantom Hoover about the BF-inspired languages, the "brick brain brochure." < 1330196694 140300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 god bless < 1330196694 327038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1330196704 776298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: And why would you want those to go in $HOME? < 1330196710 567305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :root shouldn't own things in $HOME. < 1330196714 829401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're confused. < 1330196751 456857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1330196760 639103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how Ubuntu works and I like the way it works in Ubuntu. < 1330196762 40524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1330196769 472633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't "work" like that in Ubuntu. < 1330196775 687907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has never recommended you use sudo to install things into $HOME. < 1330196779 241589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's completely nonsensical advice. < 1330196801 567607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no such thing as a package that makes use of $HOME in any way? < 1330196820 105791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say, create a hidden directory with config info or other data? < 1330196822 793049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1330196843 24087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm putting you on /ignore; the number of incoherent questions exceeds my ability to care about answering them. < 1330196848 214080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1330196850 166256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1330196895 584186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott apparently has this delusion that people who ask questions actually have all the information they need to start with. < 1330196904 193854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they should. < 1330197001 259076 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330197048 623198 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There’s nothing wrong with using ~ for your personal stuff. No, not in Ubuntu either. < 1330197068 116112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite what we're talking about. < 1330197096 60012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that when I use apt-get to install packages, it also leaves directories in $HOME < 1330197099 37462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I'm mistaken < 1330197116 997958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, it can leave a directory in $HOME < 1330197132 367740 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can’t. < 1330197164 95015 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be utterly broken behavior. < 1330197178 342243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Of course there's nothing wrong with that. < 1330197188 545227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: There's something wrong with using "sudo cabal" and wanting it to install into $HOME < 1330197198 272458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in general, installing things into $HOME using sudo for no apparent reason. < 1330197224 449663 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ion is calling "sudo apt-get install making things in people's $HOME" broken behavior that doesn't exist. < 1330197231 232564 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you missed what kallisti said < 1330197253 802346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yes, I did, thankfully. < 1330197301 945598 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apt-get install needs write permissions to stuff outside $HOME in any case, i thought root permissions were implied. < 1330197328 606769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I didn't see any mention of apt-get. < 1330197366 30324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06 < kallisti> so there's no such thing as a package that makes use of $HOME in any way? < 1330197372 932823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was implied < 1330197374 921772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1330197379 151863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how you might have been confused. < 1330197496 493769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously that would have taken at most 2 replies to figure out what I was saying. < 1330197500 627953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep. tiem to /ignore < 1330197502 169590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking stupid. < 1330197503 573635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1330197527 986981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1330197591 750038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Phantom_Hoover, how do I avoid the awkward plural->singular transition in "General links to people should be to standard namespace articles on them, if one exists"? < 1330197618 712466 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't read awkwardly for me. < 1330197660 16733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay. < 1330197688 256616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But surely "General links to people should be to standard namespace articles on them, if one exists, and to their user page otherwise." is awkward? It goes from plural to singular within the main bulk of the sentence. < 1330197694 296798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or to < 1330197699 98706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, no, *and to < 1330197702 744852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, that sentence is a complete mess. < 1330198192 384804 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did kallisti fail to note that you had em on ignore? < 1330198254 462770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1330198325 677543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You should totally rewrite my sentence. < 1330198348 273088 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am sexually aroused by elbows." -- elliott < 1330198387 721431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. Now I'm legally required to make that policy. < 1330198521 339031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330198582 882101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1330198589 984262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1330198590 222302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1330198594 217510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1330198594 414957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 31m 40s ago: god bless < 1330198597 848443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1330198608 828774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the university lawyers have got back to us on the software license for this hardware compiler thing < 1330198611 919972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look at it < 1330198623 614484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it's one of those big EULA things < 1330198650 479159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 12:37:04: Is this a spambot or something? I just got a user talk page message from Phantom Hoover about the BF-inspired languages, the "brick brain brochure." < 1330198650 666025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @tell ais523 god bless < 1330198670 316701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, OK < 1330198675 987126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not going to be under a free license? :( < 1330198680 355637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1330198687 553165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1330198696 461435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also contains a reservation of the reverse engineering right, which is funny as we're planning to supply source < 1330198725 552209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a final decision? < 1330198755 703906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I might mention that it's vaguely ridiculous to put a reverse engineering clause in something that can't, by definition, be reverse engineered < 1330198770 14520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, the license in general < 1330198781 304486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we get to supply feedback < 1330198784 94433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, is an EULA even a valid source code license? < 1330198795 554542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like they've completely misunderstood what is required < 1330198796 727226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1330198800 176535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1330198805 979917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it specifically permits derivative works under some circumstances < 1330198836 701422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*distribution of derivative works, presumably < 1330198837 829187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does what you'd want to do with it fall under the category of "academic teaching or non-commercial research"? < 1330198846 273673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1330198851 26342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows you to create them, but not distribute them < 1330198859 868677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, creating derivative works is always permissable < 1330198862 769402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also looks like a mistake < 1330198865 513470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses are about redistribution... < 1330198871 281829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a contract-based license, not copyright-based license < 1330198873 724882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those can go a bit further < 1330198875 311764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1330198896 42112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly possible to make a contract with someone that they won't make a derivative work of something, in return for something else < 1330198896 390982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose you'll be able to convince them to license it under something sane :p < 1330198900 58520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1330198927 957676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would probably fall under non-commercial research, but I'll probably just try it out, assuming I can figure out a way to download it without agreeing to a contract < 1330198983 63450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get someone under 18 to download it? < 1330198996 982666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd love to try that trick some day, as far as I can tell it's legally valid, but it's never been tested) < 1330199028 534910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I'm under 18 < 1330199031 378202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it 16 in the UK? < 1330199034 261585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1330199047 745394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: coppro tried to get money back from a Windows license, IIRC < 1330199055 660601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite agreeing to a contract saying he wouldn't try to < 1330199060 318410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he was a minor at the time < 1330199065 262610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ask him :P < 1330199068 850935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1330199069 37595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that's Canadian law) < 1330199071 333457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1330199074 104161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, right, that'd be Canadian law < 1330199076 713760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it came with a computer, I think) < 1330199079 395478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1330199104 790049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1330199113 750785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was very impressed with Toshiba for putting the "you will not try to seek a refund for Windows" contract on the outside of the box, visible before I bought it, and colored in a way that it was prominent and visible < 1330199119 441529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :My Little Stallman: Freedom is Magic | So good to be in the Evening....In Europe! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1330199154 990510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could actually make an informed decision about whether to buy the laptop based on the contracts that came with it < 1330199167 922703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1330199200 95380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, in the UK, doing that may be required for it to be legally binding, based on some opinions by an important government lawyer that were made in a non-legally-binding way) < 1330199229 183215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : also there's no cabal... < 1330199231 643078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRECT < 1330199243 662768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how many here remember that one < 1330199248 78028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone < 1330199259 96999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[http://not.found.yet/bioc/c-compilers Original C/C++/C# compiler source code for Basic Input/Output Commander] (no source found yet) < 1330199260 569512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1330199266 664891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1330199272 84125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we find an excuse to delete that thing? < 1330199277 434467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not only do I remember it, I know the original context too < 1330199280 881008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it predates the Web, IIRC) < 1330199289 47164 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete what thing? < 1330199295 913959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that external link makes me think Esme < 1330199307 437202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the author of the article is trying to troll us really badly < 1330199311 564611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Basic_Input/Output_Commander < 1330199312 869345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's not the same person? < 1330199337 680607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, the rest of the article doesn't remind me of him < 1330199338 247750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I'm vaguely remembered of a case where someone who's known as quite a good troll deliberately trolled badly, as a form of metatrolling < 1330199341 322651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has concrete details, for one < 1330199398 119176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, [[Esme]] isn't in [[Category:Languages]] or [[Category:Joke languages]] < 1330199404 416081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost went to fix that, then realised it's correct < 1330199435 577074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it in Category:Shameful? < 1330199441 40128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, despite that category not existing < 1330199451 169151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think category:shameful was invented for it < 1330199452 71592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1330199474 823348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHHH!! < 1330199479 936555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO LET THE WIKI OWNER FIND OUT ABOUT THAT CATEGORY < 1330199483 767939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, how long is it going to be before mobile phone lawsuits hit singularity? < 1330199492 250151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but, wasn't it you who came up with it? < 1330199494 29094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you created it, right? < 1330199510 897870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't invalidate the policy! < 1330199546 789198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it still february < 1330199549 251970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means we're not letting you find out about it, because you know already < 1330199559 8446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be mentioned in Category Talk:Shameful < 1330199570 111383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talk < 1330199572 428835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what day is it < 1330199574 904645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aaargh so drowsy < 1330199581 835573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saturday 25 feb 7:52 < 1330199585 840650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC+0 < 1330199607 407849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 7:52 UTC? < 1330199614 67543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be bright by now, then? < 1330199652 51374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how is it still february <-- well it _is_ the groundhog month... < 1330199674 251081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PM UTC < 1330199680 798736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, 19:52 < 1330199685 711659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not really with it either < 1330199812 350662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was thinking about my ideas for Ibtlfmm programming language <-- i'm sorry but elliott will never be able to distinguish that from Itflabtijtslwi. < 1330199851 65297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i can remember "itflab", if i try real hard < 1330199882 440847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw keymaker comes in later :DDDD < 1330199890 274083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1330199894 3926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know right??? < 1330199917 641331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he read the logs. which is even scarier a thought than when graue came in here a few days ago < 1330199963 515538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :h sms cnnngl dsgsd < 1330199978 755147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1330199990 536654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: prblm? < 1330200017 437146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't added trollface to unicode yet, have they? < 1330200047 313450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you or ais523 kick you thaanxekr < 1330200059 29322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will probably be the day elliott swears off the internet and become a cave dweller together with grigori perelman < 1330200066 192435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1330200078 713596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1330200098 628271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think my idea made his brain crawl < 1330200117 70030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's saying a lot of confusing words < 1330200130 498538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add vowels < 1330200138 20654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which vowels < 1330200150 786631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he semese cenenegele desegesede < 1330200153 798320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeuiyiuieoe < 1330200155 804352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you ever seen Just Connect? you probably haven't because it's on BBC4, and people rarely watch that even in the UK < 1330200164 511364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats too many vowels < 1330200172 605110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's for both lines < 1330200180 630499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a round where you have to reconstruct phrases which have had their vowels removed, and they're often really difficult < 1330200183 928836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i thought it was only connect ..... i haive ino idea why i know this < 1330200189 699167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you might be right < 1330200192 639024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even so i don't watch tv < 1330200194 280007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no i mean too many vowels for me to stick in my head < 1330200197 212836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copy < 1330200200 312801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep track of position in < 1330200213 516826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not at all? if so, I've watched more Norwegian TV than you have :) < 1330200216 299703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i _have_ happened upon weakest link < 1330200243 306308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weakest link is our produest cultural export < 1330200246 144297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "he seems cunningly disguised" < 1330200247 541057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it has happened sometimes in other people's places < 1330200249 39521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ranked inversely < 1330200255 683308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank you,s ir < 1330200263 112803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i get it now < 1330200281 29342 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330200310 831606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no now i have to decide between the two chrome adblocking extensions again < 1330200325 481098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: xor them < 1330200334 722699 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-235.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330200348 769137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable < 1330200367 1910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable < 1330200375 684739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have _no_ idea what that means < 1330200379 194062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was looking for some other german word < 1330200381 529072 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :810) aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable < 1330200384 623394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like oe of those words everyone says cant be translated into english < 1330200386 804810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to descirbe a feeling < 1330200393 563858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all i could think of was scherzo < 1330200398 452993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :schadenfreude? < 1330200400 738251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1330200405 883255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of that one, its not that one though < 1330200410 268549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i thought of schengen but its not that either < 1330200415 989289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :weltschmertz? < 1330200425 862878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i typed in what it soudned like into googl ebut it was obviously wrong because it corrected me to arnold schwarznegger < 1330200436 465254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes that might be it < 1330200455 134095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fahrvergnugen? < 1330200473 206937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ü < 1330200488 787222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so........ < 1330200496 942492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fahrvergnügen (German pronunciation: [ˈfaːɐ̯.fɛɐ̯ˌɡnyːɡn̩]) was an advertising slogan used by the German automobile manufacturer Volkswagen in a 1990 U.S. ad campaign that included a stick figure driving a Volkswagen car.[1] < 1330200515 15832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wir fahrvergnugen fahrvergnugen fahrvergnugen auf der autobahn < 1330200528 161147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ü, not u! < 1330200531 404987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference! < 1330200544 996950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hüsker dü < 1330200550 864617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck that. all vowels are teh same < 1330200559 375496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that came up in a newspaper quiz today) < 1330200581 449896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so why do you protest when i leave them out? < 1330200581 636758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :closest thing to ü in English is "er", although it isn't that close < 1330200589 937987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas German u is pretty similar to English u < 1330200613 98286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: theyre the SAME but they're not OPTIONAL < 1330200622 83285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1330200759 126993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that reddit self-ad for fifthworldproblems creeps me out, especially after i learned what CMEPT means < 1330200774 222099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean, < 1330200775 120613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fifth world problems? < 1330200778 440222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: death < 1330200784 926534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.reddit.com/r/fifthworldproblems < 1330200788 359459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is no point trying to explain) < 1330200792 429110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to look… < 1330200828 184742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BOLb means pain < 1330200839 388569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok i'm approximating with latin letters here) < 1330200852 76672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather backwards from germanic < 1330200871 101250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no:smerte = en:pain) < 1330200894 209365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ge:Schmertz of course < 1330200900 152960 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :de: < 1330200906 223584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ge: < 1330200910 637172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-t < 1330200921 630760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok < 1330200952 37498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hesitated on that one < 1330200954 930470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qe: < 1330201042 849254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does your operating system have a zsync package < 1330201049 313505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh its ubuntu i guess it does < 1330201065 384459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1330201083 41550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my boss has sent me an email that makes Evolution segfault when I try to read it < 1330201095 652117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, close unexpectedly, not sure if it's SEGV in particular < 1330201095 893410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its' tryingt o protect you < 1330201105 585407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does your operating system have a zsync package (this is a comedy) < 1330201111 427795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can read it through webmail, haven't used that for my university account for ages < 1330201126 909781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a minor explanation, it _is_ of course weakly inspired by r/firstworldproblems. actually that may not help at all. < 1330201144 374738 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330201205 272757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually it does. firstworldproblems is about problems you only have because you have money in the first place < 1330201209 192818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, Yahoo! have broken their POP certificate again < 1330201221 473676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: does y- oh, arch, so yes < 1330201233 949490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fifthworldproblems is about problems you can only possibly imagine having. < 1330201237 218019 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay? < 1330201241 457354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use anything that isn't a debian derivative or arch or windows :P < 1330201246 769605 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris < 1330201249 802139 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:-P) < 1330201251 5700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i just realised that < 1330201254 66178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does solaris have "packages" < 1330201258 710302 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1330201260 252212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a popular repository for it or something < 1330201264 489787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bunch of ported stuff < 1330201266 978783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do i misremember < 1330201271 723552 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.opencsw.org/ maybe < 1330201289 725026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it was < 1330201292 257296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlastWave or osmehting < 1330201311 573231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blastwave apparently :P < 1330201317 98649 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the same thing < 1330201327 652853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: anyway whatever, do you have a convenient package for zsync < 1330201328 373951 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure though < 1330201343 733540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should ask some bsd users if i want relevant answers < 1330201343 920404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: does your operating system have a zsync package (this is a comedy) <-- no, i just brush my teeth normally < 1330201354 795617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (if so, which version) < 1330201359 332528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (which version is yours?) < 1330201402 699160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.6.1-1ubuntu1 < 1330201419 200335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow really < 1330201428 985438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait nm < 1330201431 822233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same version i had < 1330201434 908892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I've missed the point of the question < 1330201436 455448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was on 1.6 for some reason < 1330201447 43670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm working on esolangs.org wiki backups < 1330201461 908655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current plan is to distribute the mediawiki XML backup via zsync (= rsync over standard HTTP) < 1330201480 17520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that means people can update it daily with like a kilobyte to download rather than 20 megs < 1330201486 432171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without me having to maintain a separate rsync server < 1330201506 552098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm just checking that reasonable OSes have zsync < 1330201510 451717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, can I get rid of the encrypted wiki backup? I just remembered it's illegal in the UK to have encrypted files you don't know the password to (which is stupid, but there you go) < 1330201560 604616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and Objects are Pythonobjects, so that wouldn't be a problem <-- THAT'S CHEATING < 1330201672 962788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day the uk parliament will pass a law that accidentally prohibits breathing, and that will be the end of ais523. < 1330201686 738640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd break laws if the alternative were death < 1330201720 447227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the alternative was living inside a small metal box for the rest of your life < 1330201750 585288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a boundary somewhere, but I haven't quite worked out where yet < 1330201753 687802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't care to find out < 1330201815 747652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330201874 368486 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1330201874 893003 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1330201875 79938 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1330202075 937893 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330202133 134201 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd need to update the repository due to opensolaris no longer existing, but there seems to be some kind of server problem... opencsw.org doesn't have it, anyway, and given that it's only in AUR it's unlikely to be in Solaris < 1330202166 282764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, sucks to be Solaris users < 1330202189 181996 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter, there's never any updates or anything anyway < 1330202208 726180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant re not having zsyncgood, it's in freebsd < 1330202213 715433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fix < 1330202256 496476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbsd too < 1330202267 684728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not netbsd oh well!!!! < 1330202280 80015 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget dragonfly < 1330202321 804976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: everyone forgot dragonfly < 1330202330 448613 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1330202444 137404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: did you know cpressey wrote dragonfly's installer???? < 1330202445 998088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude's wild < 1330202453 837126 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make the spam blacklist and abuse filters bypassed if and only if found inside of a
 block and that the URL or text must be inserted by a autoconfirmed user? (So if not autoconfirmed, or not a 
 block, the blacklist will take effect and prevent you from saving the page) (Some people might invent "Casino Viagra" esolang; I have had this idea myself)
< 1330202455 476794 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1330202465 304949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dragonfly just uses pkgsrc
< 1330202469 526688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCKS TO BEDRAGONFLY USERS
< 1330202479 747679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can whitelist problematic entries
< 1330202507 673686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the list frmo metawiki isn't helping all that much anyway
< 1330202546 655474 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-128-139.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1330202549 499028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that is technically possible, but I'd rather only do it on a case-by-case basis
< 1330202557 601613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not had any problems so far; I am simply mentioning a strange idea about esolangs
< 1330202557 849145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we can move the URLs from the spam blacklist to the abuse filter if necessary)
< 1330202571 455162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which can be set to allow specific users to add the URLs, or specific user groups)
< 1330202581 458970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well in this case it was "cheap-viagra" that caused problems :)
< 1330202591 609171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's on metawiki's master blacklist
< 1330202600 17063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just removed the http:// to get past it
< 1330202615 502581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that is not the kind of problem I was talking about.
< 1330202640 254780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about an esolang where the source code might occasionally contain such blacklisted URLs
< 1330202670 104030 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1330202671 949381 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1330202688 379581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem with only allowing insertion by autoconfirmed user is that MW doesn't really keep track of insertion
< 1330202694 958038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so such an extension would likely block all non-autoconfirmed users out
< 1330202723 652849 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, anyways, I was once on some wiki which blacklisted my own domain name (zzo38computer.cjb.net). I had an http:// URL; entering a gopher:// URL was accepted.
< 1330202738 401848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it blacklisted cjb.net
< 1330202741 300177 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330202741 487051 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330202749 746603 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-239.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330202813 868413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AbuseFilter can be set to only block addition of links, not edits that preserve links that were already on the page
< 1330202815 29563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess so. But, cjb.net is used both as URL redirection and as dynamic DNS. When used as URL redirection obviously only http:// works; but used as dynamic DNS it can be any URI scheme so I suppose it works; if the URI scheme is gopher:// then you can know it is not a URL redirection!
< 1330202820 92874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah
< 1330202826 68404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SpamBlacklist can't
< 1330202845 126477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1330202850 758574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AbuseFilter is more flexible
< 1330202856 799682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SpamBlacklist scales better
< 1330202944 6442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So if for whatever reason you run a server on a blacklisted domain, you can still use URI schemes other than HTTP to get through; it can be helpful. Of course spammers will never do that so it is still OK)
< 1330202969 978103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why do you think Gopher spam isn't more popular than it is?
< 1330203025 297362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambots have bad taste
< 1330203044 35137 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lack of support in Google and Internet Explorer; and also that they cannot receive payments, and that they cannot trick you with Flash and popups and hidden fields and all that stupid stuff
< 1330203056 864817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1330203079 170608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this thing doesn't seem to work
< 1330203100 109242 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1330203113 863827 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330203176 764229 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1330203218 310067 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330203231 338018 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get a plain text version of CC0 so that it can be included in Haskell packages which are in the public domain? (This might solve the problem some people were complaining about when I created public domain Haskell packages, which is that public domain is not applicable in all jurisdictions)
< 1330203287 858461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear
< 1330203298 172687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you ask it to include image contents in XML dumps, MediaWiki encodes them in base64
< 1330203308 715135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that /should/ compress well
< 1330203309 281554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with DOS newlines, inexplicably
< 1330203330 328201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't those standard for HTTP communication?
< 1330203341 775860 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRLF is the standard newlines on most internet protocols.
< 1330203345 187631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All MIME stuff is very CRLFy.
< 1330203363 739253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in the file itself, I mean
< 1330203372 662352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes from 164 megs to 18 megs gzipped
< 1330203377 350262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries bzip2 out of curiosity
< 1330203391 615779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bzip2 huffman-codes the individual bytes in the file
< 1330203401 186809 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they are called DOS newlines but it should be called printable newlines since CRLF is how it will print on a paper.
< 1330203401 438985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so base64 and binary should come to almost exactly the same size bzip2ed
< 1330203424 32982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I guess huffman-coding would work better on the binary if the original file had a very skewed frequency distribution
< 1330203479 258020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data www-data  18M Feb 25 20:52 esolang.xml.gz
< 1330203479 494655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 root     root     9.9M Feb 25 20:55 esolang.xml.orig.bz2
< 1330203484 371754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it took 10x longer
< 1330203490 840033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzip2 is really useless...
< 1330203503 384537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it was useful for /something/ when xz didn't exist
< 1330203509 345140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : i did that at 13 :'( <-- yeah but you're elliott.
< 1330203516 151167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru
< 1330203561 215466 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did what at 13? (Do i want to know?)
< 1330203571 235944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, bzip2 is still the most compressy of the compression algos you typically get preinstalled on POSIXy systems
< 1330203575 539271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's quite hard to beat
< 1330203580 797395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea I had for compression format, is for each file (or even part of a file said to be combined after decompression, or multiple files in a single block with an instruction to split after decompression), to have a reference to a compression program within the archive file. The compression program consists of reversible primitive instructions (reversible computing), with many common schemes as single instructions.
< 1330203587 366368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually got azip to do /slightly/ better than bzip2, but it couldn't compete even with lzma
< 1330203602 9701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: ate a weasel
< 1330203613 802237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a rite of passage in england
< 1330203617 195611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion:  23:36:51:  wow that jhix guy..  he's 14 and he's writing interpreters in haskell and he knows lambda calculus and everything!!!!!!
< 1330203637 958546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's an English euphemism for "eating a weasel".)
< 1330203647 976444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also if you have a long repeated sequence, which any LZ-style compressor would encode as a back-reference, in the original binary, it doesn't necessarily translate to a repeated sequence in the base64 unless the distance between the starting points for original and repeated is a multiple of 3.
< 1330203668 897380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thus the expression "weaseling out" for people avoiding obligations
< 1330203671 411766 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the idea I have about compression seems workable or anything else to you?
< 1330203674 489208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Exactly!
< 1330203694 948501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, indeed
< 1330203724 224926 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that a compression scheme can be written in a reversible programming language designed for writing compression schemes.
< 1330203725 856314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a bit like using a self-extracting archive
< 1330203731 968588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a more appropriate language
< 1330203742 886263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really "reason" about what bzip2 does since it's got that BWT, which I don't really "intuit".
< 1330203752 656251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's basically a sort by context
< 1330203767 219977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you work out all cyclic permutations of the original file, then sort them
< 1330203793 486834 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly using for encryption as well, to require a password to decompress, if it uses instructions to request user input.
< 1330203808 569306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then record the /last/ character of each, in order
< 1330203815 651215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only really crazy thing about that operation is that it's reversible
< 1330203858 874983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can expect the last character to tend to form long runs in a file with a lot of repetition, because if two cyclic permutations sort similarly to each other, they have a lot of characters in common, so the character before was probably the same as well
< 1330203904 178509 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the user input simply becomes fixed data to the program if it is requested; that way it is still reversible; the user input is user input both on normal and reverse execution of the program.
< 1330203954 617161 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1330203985 502471 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time (m-eval global-env '(m-eval global-env '(fact 5))))
< 1330203985 689303 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :598614 ms real time
< 1330204012 794780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can understand like what you are saying about self-extracting; but in this case it would also be a binary code interpreted by a program which is uncompressor program, and the uncompressor program deal with options such as which files you want decompressed, listing the files, disassembling the program codes, etc
< 1330204039 717899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that in this case it even is cross-platform instead of an executable file for a certain kind of computer or operating system.
< 1330204117 744519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, somebody edit a page on the wiki
< 1330204141 759160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any particular reason?
< 1330204156 327346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1330204202 275867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, done
< 1330204219 469617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that was going to happen before I loaded the wiki
< 1330204226 552232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was looking through the access logs to check something
< 1330204232 120344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of putting actual spam there
< 1330204237 414494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but had a better idea
< 1330204246 198407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have many things that I could usefully spam; AceHack or Jettyplay, perhaps)
< 1330204290 61001 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps if you want to mention AceHack or Jettyplay, use your own user page for that purpose instead.
< 1330204296 158871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but then it wouldn't be spam
< 1330204301 228638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not /really/
< 1330204318 703498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. But just in case you wanted to mention them; it is not a requirement to mention them at all.
< 1330204337 14680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did the test succeed?
< 1330204348 392711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: But surely "General links to people should be to standard namespace articles on them, if one exists, and to their user page otherwise." is awkward? It goes from plural to singular within the main bulk of the sentence.
< 1330204374 109914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :", if any exist, and to their user pages otherwise."
< 1330204451 451708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, thanks
< 1330204462 340378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it?
< 1330204463 820388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "if any exist" is nonsense
< 1330204472 269572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that implies you should link to a mainspace article if any articles on people exist
< 1330204475 619520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they obviously do
< 1330204482 679978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's secret! at least for the next five minutes or so
< 1330204489 170499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the alternative is to make the whole sentence singular, then
< 1330204505 101466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a five-minute secret seems reasonable
< 1330204511 872018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, where should I put a system-specific shell script to be called from a system user (= no homedir)'s crontab?
< 1330204516 882416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go on, then :P
< 1330204552 350834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A general link to a person should be to a standard namespace article on them,"
< 1330204568 503034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /usr/lib subdir, right?
< 1330204582 983034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"main namespace" is the technical term, I think
< 1330204586 505028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not /usr/lib
< 1330204587 691680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :system-specific
< 1330204597 122758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a matter of policy
< 1330204597 309648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(choose your favorite gender neutral pronoun yourself)
< 1330204606 192475 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, /usr/local/scripts/
< 1330204611 149543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you meant arch-specific
< 1330204614 237458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got to be in /etc, then
< 1330204630 421010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, /etc/local/scripts/
< 1330204632 123908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking /usr/local/libexec/foo.sh
< 1330204655 102128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm but the rest of the policies are plural :(
< 1330204675 327267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: surely /etc is only for system-local configuration of /existing/ programs
< 1330204691 796938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fine, rewrite it in chinese then
< 1330204692 747358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /etc/cron.weekly?
< 1330204704 211787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for configuration of cron, I guess
< 1330204746 277471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, I didn't realise that existed
< 1330204755 570174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you still have to put entries in crontab if you create something in there?
< 1330204766 663785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that just for root?
< 1330204769 746236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for a non-root user
< 1330204770 539735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the crontab runs everything in the directory at the appropriate intervals
< 1330204772 789715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's for root
< 1330204783 490582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame, then
< 1330204794 228550 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/libexec or ~/local/libexec, I say.
< 1330204814 706307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do system users normally /have/ home dirs?
< 1330204817 152187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1330204827 695989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that's the point
< 1330204832 471521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, huh, they mostly have home dirs in /var on this system
< 1330204834 897301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm, I have no libexec
< 1330204846 378417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's deprecated
< 1330204852 665019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/lib or /usr/local/share, then, I suppose
< 1330204864 371064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "home dir" for a system user seems to be "dir most similar to what they do"
< 1330204868 789771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "games" has a homedir of /usr/games
< 1330204885 181446 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any comments about my ideas of Ibtlfmm programming language I was thinking about? (near timestamp 1330153950)
< 1330204918 803943 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems some distros prefer lib over libexec...
< 1330204949 594359 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In either case, /usr/local/ is maintained purely by you. The only things in there are things you personally installed.
< 1330204956 180898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From source.
< 1330204980 319175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or from binary
< 1330205015 300014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /etc hierarchy contains configuration files. A "configuration file" is a local file used to control the operation of a program; it must be static and cannot be an executable binary. [4]
< 1330205021 845906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are shell scripts binaries?
< 1330205080 225742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: FHS bans using */lib/* for executables, it seems
< 1330205084 27469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including shell scripts, I think
< 1330205113 543005 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe instead of "return" and "join" I should just call it "eta" and "mu" like how it is usually in mathematics, or something similar;,like I don't know. Or the Maybe monad should be called a successor monad instead
< 1330205316 331285 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $ file /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.6.2/cc1     /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.6.2/cc1: ELF 64-bit LSB executable
< 1330205317 942091 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwoops
< 1330205374 967383 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-228-18.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330205493 293571 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-239.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1330205540 834273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: hi
< 1330205544 522732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops,e
< 1330205551 479696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: eys it deprereprerperpeprecated that
< 1330205555 381168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, also, ghc does hat too, also
< 1330205558 671206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1330205595 947894 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well/poor would ABCL be for writing Minecraft plugins?
< 1330205597 509366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^32
< 1330205598 323206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  4294967296
< 1330205630 797836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^999
< 1330205631 671348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  535754303593133660474212524530000905280702405852766803721875194185175525562...
< 1330205634 160183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big
< 1330205635 961377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it smaller
< 1330205668 785364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask that finitist guy
< 1330205826 701933 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite the English there.
< 1330205843 691077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: yes
< 1330205907 118092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, is gzip more effective if it knows the file of the size beforehand?
< 1330205909 511152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*size of the file
< 1330205935 101819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fool
< 1330205960 379222 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURF DURF DELETE
< 1330205986 438943 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run \n#include \nint main(void){printf("%d\\n", (int)sizeof(time_t)); return 0;}' | gcc -x c /dev/stdin && ./a.out
< 1330208101 702562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1330208114 897949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1330208122 68111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses 32-bit any more anyway :p
< 1330208125 953941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1330208127 512647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's past 2038
< 1330208131 503755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware
< 1330208132 29640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the browser uses a 32-bit value
< 1330208134 246001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll just wrap around
< 1330208135 3619 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know nothing of the interior of http, nor the intererior of web browsers, and only basic web design)
< 1330208135 806874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus be in the past
< 1330208138 892988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus be expired immediately
< 1330208141 673849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1330208145 541405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.Z.
< 1330208161 920669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-x c" is a useful command-line switch
< 1330208172 688041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL doesn't have an equivalent, so I have a symlink to /dev/tty called tty.i
< 1330208309 560500 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330208335 29131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't know where to put that cron job :(
< 1330208376 966583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's a good time to run a cron job that might slow things down slightly for a few minutes?
< 1330208403 197007 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 am
< 1330208405 257949 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 2PM somewhere nobody cares about.
< 1330208410 507680 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Samoa.
< 1330208416 522117 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION !
< 1330208475 458483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I was thinking 5-7 AM
< 1330208483 871523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either 5 AM, 6 AM, or 7 AM UTC
< 1330208495 160470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like, when I'm most productive!
< 1330208496 88562 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5AM is 9PM PST.
< 1330208497 994108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so midnight - 2 am EST
< 1330208501 162056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is pst
< 1330208504 699705 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-8
< 1330208507 482262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to suggest 6-8 AM UTC, because that's pretty early in the UK, and translates to night in the US too
< 1330208507 789022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean
< 1330208509 79059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is pst
< 1330208514 126428 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pacific Standard Time, west coast.
< 1330208514 312776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a little later, at 9AM UTC
< 1330208516 942183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :West coast US
< 1330208534 783825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically people might wake up at 7 am and browse esolang while eating their cornflakes :P
< 1330208542 206035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: i thought you were east coast
< 1330208555 385050 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, but I've heard that even after I moved, people continued to live there.
< 1330208643 821994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1330208670 959782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: so out of 5,6,7,8 AM UTC which is nicest for you
< 1330208674 91582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you were like
< 1330208677 281611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a DEDICATED ESOLANG FAN
< 1330208720 258606 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7. Second choice 6.
< 1330208826 734572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what about u
< 1330208830 116035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;e,r
< 1330208833 410194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god typing sucks
< 1330208844 324604 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6
< 1330208850 521209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second choice 5
< 1330208883 320157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bad is 7
< 1330208891 42159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially
< 1330208896 327161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bad is 8
< 1330208900 423546 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is the worst
< 1330208905 553398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can live with any of them
< 1330208905 805421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okthx
< 1330208915 833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: opinyinz?????
< 1330208928 166983 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, thinking about it, 7 is the best
< 1330208945 730150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably won't matter much, but I know that 10am UTC I'd be quite likely to be using esolangs.org, 9am UTC I wouldn't
< 1330208954 917446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i prefer approx. 17:00 UTC *mad cackle*
< 1330208956 7279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what it's like for a Brit
< 1330208965 541465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh i didn't realise youw ere here!
< 1330208970 995736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUT OF THE OPTIONS THERE which is best
< 1330208971 828190 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nose!
< 1330208981 436962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither of those were one of the options! :P
< 1330208991 397585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's an indication of where the cutoff is
< 1330209006 299395 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, 7BST would probably be better since most of us have silly daylight savings time ;)
< 1330209007 548747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm reasonably indifferent between those
< 1330209011 938085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think they're about the same for me
< 1330209026 944294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has seen ais523 online at 5 AM
< 1330209044 38789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, most commonly on the Saturday -> Sunday boundary
< 1330209050 869565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may well happen tonight, in fact
< 1330209055 855726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps 8 AM
< 1330209074 132552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i suppose 5,6,7,8 are all equally bad from that perspective then
< 1330209079 114093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are 6/7 bad?
< 1330209100 541702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or indeed, equally good
< 1330209104 555632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is hard to change after-the-fact, btw)
< 1330209114 544391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because hypothetical backuppers will set cronjobs by it)
< 1330209195 860442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't think there's a big difference
< 1330209325 815107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again ponders why his /// quine had to use quoting tokens one character longer than the BCT interpreter
< 1330209383 530851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's because i couldn't manage to avoid having the sequence //\\ in the program proper)
< 1330209387 242498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any comments of my ideas near timestamp 1330153950?
< 1330209426 615089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Where would YOU put a shell script to be run from a crontab of a system user?
< 1330209480 221200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, waitamo...
< 1330209486 285659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do users without /homes even *have* crontabs?
< 1330209599 854879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is this grammatically correct? *General links to people should be to a standard namespace article on them, if one exists, and to their user page otherwise. When linking to a user page, the User: prefix should be visible on the link.
< 1330209616 750823 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1330209625 498413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's correct, although a little tricky to parse
< 1330209644 412669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1330209654 441955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang thinking time
< 1330209656 51794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1330209664 624175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A queue-based functional language
< 1330209671 74273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330209683 877237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have forward Polish notation
< 1330209690 835276 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 3 8
< 1330209701 842696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would that do
< 1330209709 749460 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Return 11
< 1330209723 559350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean
< 1330209733 774372 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It puts 11 into a monad
< 1330209745 882519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Thanks :'(
< 1330209756 370436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously,  Do users without /homes even *have* crontabs?
< 1330210007 323964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, though POSIX permits it.
< 1330210049 672159 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, they do.
< 1330210069 138473 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :User crontabs are in /var/spool/cron/crontabs, at least in vixie cron.
< 1330210078 877630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1330210091 579082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, erm, did we ever come to a consensus on where to put this bloody shell script?
< 1330210104 241655 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most common crons are either vixie cron or forks thereof, so there you go.
< 1330210142 629259 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think /usr/local/libexec or /usr/local/lib is your best bet.
< 1330210167 371136 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, /usr/local/lib/admin-scripts/foo.sh
< 1330210211 946264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1330210212 527738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1330210216 505693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /usr/share hierarchy is for all read-only architecture independent data files. [30]
< 1330210216 692472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This hierarchy is intended to be shareable among all architecture platforms of a given OS; thus, for example, a site with i386, Alpha, and PPC platforms might maintain a single /usr/share directory that is centrally-mounted. Note, however, that /usr/share is generally not intended to be shared by different OSes or by different releases of the same OS.
< 1330210217 800779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23]	
< 1330210217 987644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the perl5 subdirectory for Perl 5 modules and libraries.
< 1330210219 688786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1330210226 96685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wrong footnote
< 1330210232 127205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[30]	
< 1330210232 313703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much of this data originally lived in /usr (man, doc) or /usr/lib (dict, terminfo, zoneinfo).
< 1330210239 133770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that excludes using /usr/share to store shellscripts.
< 1330210253 121759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas
< 1330210253 585477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1330210254 138032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib includes object files, libraries, and internal binaries that are not intended to be executed directly by users or shell scripts. [22]
< 1330210254 324777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data exclusively used by the application must be placed within that subdirectory. [23]
< 1330210257 438843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22]	
< 1330210257 625788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miscellaneous architecture-independent application-specific static files and subdirectories must be placed in /usr/share.
< 1330210258 889096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1330210262 832124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to exclude putting shell scripts in /usr/lib to me
< 1330210272 553923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by analogy /usr/local/lib_)
< 1330210273 388347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1330210409 385665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it, hi there /usr/local/lib/cron/[CENSORED]
< 1330210611 330677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hey, did you say what time is best for you?
< 1330210618 638468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: ais523: oerjan: Ngevd: I went for 6 am, btw
< 1330210650 732602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1330210664 357107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [censored] is the actual name of the script? if not, it should be
< 1330210680 755283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I said yes, would you believe me?
< 1330210717 627166 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1330210752 288278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What are you going with right now?
< 1330210774 694372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's secret.
< 1330210782 725594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bt the options are, like, 5-7 UTC.
< 1330210829 289488 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:00-07:00, or 17:00 to 19:00?
< 1330210867 719566 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the 05:00-07:00 range.
< 1330210885 981043 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm... T0700Z, I suppose.
< 1330210896 880474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*But
< 1330210898 751980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second choice?
< 1330210901 803564 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1330210913 340218 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T0600Z?
< 1330210915 210492 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my UPCOMING QUEUE ESOLANG, things are very weird
< 1330210919 743816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll stick with 6 AM for now, then.
< 1330210934 23198 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 10 7 * 5
< 1330210935 963627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running the script now FWIW.
< 1330210938 513348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the wiki going at normal speed?
< 1330210948 276749 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1330210954 772084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should only go very slightly slower at the worst.
< 1330210961 358406 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would become * 5 17, then 85
< 1330210987 804263 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because a value is at the top of the stack, that is converted to a character
< 1330211002 57241 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what stack
< 1330211016 992795 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, U
< 1330211024 129358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's a queue
< 1330211029 443243 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AN INVISIBLE QUEUE
< 1330211047 461288 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B8BA.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330211053 842318 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work
< 1330211058 927426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queues
< 1330211065 871049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1330211075 630658 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is converted into a queue of functions on integers and integers
< 1330211094 90342 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how + + + would work
< 1330211111 960858 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck
< 1330211273 942796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe having two consecutive functions at the head of the queue would rotate the queue?
< 1330211292 319894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, + + + 7 8 would become + + 15?
< 1330211313 303254 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1330211327 143267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all the functions need to be overloaded
< 1330211334 124294 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1330211365 849963 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps + is the functional thingy like Haskell's .
< 1330211756 18148 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie!
< 1330211761 526409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Wiki_dumps
< 1330211767 152957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you mean "op1 op2 op3 arg1 arg2 ..." becomes "op3 arg1 arg2 ... op1 op2"?
< 1330211786 135666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know!
< 1330211801 430980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Hello World program would be 
< 1330211801 617605 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :72 101 108 108 111 44 32 87 111 114 108 100 33 H
< 1330211802 125877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternative would be to let it evaluate "op3 arg1 arg2 ..." one step
< 1330211819 32208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I might put that in anacron, if I can remember how
< 1330211820 488847 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur
< 1330211833 136481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if it starts with enough arguments, going to op2
< 1330211855 526261 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That takes away the queue nature somewhat, though
< 1330211889 937832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: great
< 1330211891 198871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (chr . read) $ words "72 101 108 108 111 44 32 87 111 114 108 100 33"
< 1330211892 858580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "Hello, World!"
< 1330211903 354033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as long as you use zsync P:
< 1330211904 286313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1330211908 674326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1330211911 507348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'll do it manually
< 1330211918 690025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually offline, and I don't think there's a cron-while-online thing
< 1330211930 996193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, 19 megabytes a day probably isn't too bad, but (a) it's a pain for users (b) it multiplies)
< 1330211950 401456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: my latter would be same as saying it always takes the leftmost function which has enough arguments
< 1330211992 391686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, that's a gzipped file, right?
< 1330211993 259796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could work...
< 1330212002 903776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you expect it to stay mostly the same between downloads, if it's compressed?
< 1330212013 864897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's downloading the gzipped version, not the unzipped version
< 1330212018 106158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the unzipped one is what you specify
< 1330212065 359615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling this "Fueue"
< 1330212065 546523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: oh, your first has the nice property that the queue is essentially circular
< 1330212074 431724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1330212076 191125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zsync is magic
< 1330212084 319947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generates the gzip file specially so that it can do incremental downloads of it
< 1330212088 503276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1330212089 221465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has a patched zlib)
< 1330212102 170044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just move the ip one step forward in the circle if there are not enough arguments to apply a function
< 1330212103 599426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the file will be changing in the middle, rather than at the end
< 1330212106 445265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that'll confuse it
< 1330212115 811166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it looks inside the file
< 1330212121 685947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes zlib do alignment so that it works out
< 1330212126 879626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details, but it's fancy
< 1330212319 355607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION emails pgimeno about the dumps
< 1330212327 544551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Linode, solidity, has exceeded the notification threshold (1000) for disk io rate by averaging 3115.59 for the last 2 hours. The dashboard for this Linode is located at: 
< 1330212340 163426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, because of the backups
< 1330212383 86293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what happens if you do too much disk IO on Linode?
< 1330212390 379877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they charge extra, or throttle it, or what?
< 1330212413 87059 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would hope they throttle it
< 1330212429 391722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's just a configurable warning
< 1330212434 488810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1330212436 649332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to notify you of potential problems
< 1330212439 436601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lets you know that something might be going wrong
< 1330212441 274156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set the rate it warns you for
< 1330212503 129274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, zsync also does checksumming
< 1330212504 128990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice
< 1330212538 878750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda a big part of the rsync algorithm. :)
< 1330212557 580072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; YandexBot/3.0; +http://yandex.com/bots)"
< 1330212565 972596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a /really/ badly-behaved spider)
< 1330212567 750477 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esodump is 150mb big?
< 1330212582 426392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: yes, it includes all files and revisiosn
< 1330212584 977871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*revisions
< 1330212588 178105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only 19 megs compressed, though
< 1330212622 476700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's so badly behaved about said spider?
< 1330212629 705749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does it obey robots.txt?
< 1330212639 789725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even look at /robots.txt, spiders *really aggressively*
< 1330212655 506058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's a considerable percentage of entries in the log file
< 1330212658 680026 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... It doesn't read robots.txt?
< 1330212669 370812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it never stops
< 1330212672 437653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iptables the shit out of it.
< 1330212684 456623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to just block its hostname at the server level
< 1330212690 93100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess iptables would use less bandwidth
< 1330212690 501381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it claims to look at robots.txt
< 1330212692 829200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea how to use iptables
< 1330212695 921244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to obey Crawl-delay
< 1330212701 236693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every bot claims to be well-behaved
< 1330212718 656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also says that there are bots that imitate it, and suggest that you rDNS the IP
< 1330212725 772632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm
< 1330212734 381213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good excuse ;)
< 1330212735 886448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it may be true
< 1330212745 638628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yandex own yandex.ru, yandex.net, yandex.com, and forward- and reverse-DNS correctly
< 1330212752 744341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1330212756 812302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they recommend you check the IP to make sure
< 1330212759 351470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand corrected, it did load /robots.txt
< 1330212761 717528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's obeying it
< 1330212781 206419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this one is the real thing
< 1330212794 335787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still spidering far faster than any good bot would, though
< 1330212795 963427 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How so? Doesn't look like you're disallowing /wiki
< 1330212804 127876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ISTR it loaded /w
< 1330212806 187354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may be wrong
< 1330212807 541829 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, PHP added V8?
< 1330212812 826814 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Blargh
< 1330212828 82713 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try adding a Crawl-delay for them.
< 1330212831 907495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try putting in a Crawl-delay:1 just after the Disallow line
< 1330212837 410520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat
< 1330212841 497016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Crawl-delay: 1
< 1330212842 999062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a space
< 1330212852 215595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that doesn't even make sense
< 1330212854 659704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I'll consider it; I wasn't quoting that because I'm going to ban it for sure, anyway
< 1330212858 726022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless PHP needs an embedded JS interp for some reason
< 1330212859 289318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case I did want to, later
< 1330212877 274032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the "X, like Y" convention that user-agents have sprung up
< 1330212888 94173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KHTML, like Gecko"
< 1330212891 219660 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought PHP needed an embedded everything.
< 1330212893 648279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X"
< 1330212913 835476 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, they had some speech-recognition-specific function in the standard library for some reason.
< 1330212921 332694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is what happens with something like user-agent sniffing which wasn't standardised in advance
< 1330212929 196772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's because most PHP users wouldn't be able to install libraries
< 1330212933 248604 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was handled by morons.
< 1330212937 90564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have to put it into the core to make sure it's always available
< 1330212940 224756 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...,
< 1330212946 205629 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is Turing Complet
< 1330212946 707140 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1330212949 445979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yandex, like Googlebot"
< 1330212951 622029 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this makes perfect sense: it lets you use Javascript instead of PHP.
< 1330212955 605698 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Check for string 'Mozilla'... Okay, we can use HTML 3!"
< 1330212974 740562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how everybody criticises PHP's library but loves Python's
< 1330212980 329672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably namespaces are the difference
< 1330212991 416881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I don't like the bloat in Python's either
< 1330212997 228543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm probably a bit of a special case there
< 1330213179 135088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, something I discovered today; you can tell strings(1) to look for UTF-16
< 1330213234 109814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@solidity:~$ sudo grep -i yandex /var/log/nginx/access.log | wc -l
< 1330213234 337065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1346
< 1330213234 337362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@solidity:~$ sudo grep -i Googlebot /var/log/nginx/access.log | wc -l
< 1330213234 337469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :470
< 1330213566 665618 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Python, if you define a function bar() inside of a class Foo, then Foo.bar becomes a method instead of an ordinary function, and instances of Foo get weird access to it.
< 1330213580 886796 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anything special happen if you define a class Bar inside of a class Foo?
< 1330213590 80700 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it just create a class Foo.Bar and that's that?
< 1330213704 81709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fueue spec on wiki
< 1330213728 170181 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's Turing-Complete
< 1330213777 265075 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, is it too late to decategorize and move into my user space?
< 1330213783 947636 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not doing that
< 1330213798 912864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be
< 1330213799 470284 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1330213801 455600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight
< 1330213803 508659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
< 1330213877 858374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, what's a good way of purely-functionally picking a random element from a tree that satisfies a predicate?
< 1330213897 708940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assume you have a "RandomGen -> Range -> (IntInRange, RandomGen)" function or such)
< 1330213902 404148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: random as in arbitrary, or as in equally weighted?
< 1330213928 702545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter
< 1330213964 169792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm collecting all elements from the tree that satisfy the predicate into a linked list, picking a random number in [0,elemsThatSatisfyIt-1] and then getting that element from the linked list
< 1330213969 812842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks, because linked list indexing is O(n)
< 1330213970 566529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :traverse the tree, checking each element to see if it satisfies the predicate, adding the ones that do to an indexable pure-functional structure, then select a random index, then pick the element with that index from it
< 1330213984 236662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out what purely functional structures are indexable
< 1330213999 261428 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does each tree node carry around the number of leaves it has?
< 1330214015 108375 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you can use that to descend to a random leaf.
< 1330214036 566505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, but it has to be equally-weighted among the elements that satisfy the predicate.
< 1330214036 753253 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, why not"  Go to '3:19.
< 1330214042 527452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "adding the ones that do to an indexable pure-functional structure, then select a random index, then pick the element with that index from it"
< 1330214047 129441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you expecting most elements to satisfy the predicates?
< 1330214050 382869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's unhelpful
< 1330214054 565311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1330214055 834535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's 2,3 finger trees (aka Seq)
< 1330214058 140383 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :No biggie.  Select random elements from the tree, without replacement, until you find one that satisfies the predicate.
< 1330214063 594797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have O(1) consing
< 1330214080 766291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indexing is O(log(min(i,n-i)))
< 1330214083 56597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n is the length
< 1330214088 184593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has "just OK" constant factors
< 1330214089 460612 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you know something about where the good leaves are, in advance.
< 1330214099 311384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if you select a random element, is it probably going to satisfy the predicate?
< 1330214103 815676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: FSVO equally-weighted, I presume
< 1330214117 716097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hard to say
< 1330214120 486841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's most likely not going to
< 1330214120 789988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best algo would probably depend on that
< 1330214127 318613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, in the vast majority of cases, only *one* will
< 1330214128 651180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, traversing's probably better, then
< 1330214133 499024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd prefer to avoid the random selection at all in that case
< 1330214134 168407 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This algorithm will select every good leaf with equal probability.  There's no bias anywhere.
< 1330214145 256359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hmm, right
< 1330214146 262825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in that case, your existing algo is probably best, except in pathological cases
< 1330214147 868633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll be really slow :)
< 1330214152 74068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's not best
< 1330214153 933168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the linked list
< 1330214164 233343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but a linked list is pretty good for small n
< 1330214182 216340 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when (and if) you implement the "without replacement" part, you'll need to remove each bad leaf you encounter from the tree, and update the tree's metadata.
< 1330214210 73323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not as good as I'd like :(
< 1330214211 830450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: removing an element from a tree is expensive in a pure-functional language
< 1330214214 383374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should be alarmed that in Common Lisp, (car nil) and (cdr nil) both give nil
< 1330214219 967656 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, the tree ((bad bad bad bad good) (good)) will be biased toward... um...
< 1330214225 601508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not /that/ expensive
< 1330214235 592573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's traditional
< 1330214237 7035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's only O(log n) if the tree is balanced
< 1330214247 536386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sort of balanced, IIRC
< 1330214249 637801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a Map
< 1330214258 758525 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah.
< 1330214260 552530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the language shares common subtrees, and without mutation it has no reason not to do that
< 1330214262 470672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1330214262 724785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation of Map is based on size balanced binary trees (or trees of bounded balance) as described by:
< 1330214262 911594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Adams, "Efficient sets: a balancing act", Journal of Functional Programming 3(4):553-562, October 1993, http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/~adams/BB/.
< 1330214262 911800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J. Nievergelt and E.M. Reingold, "Binary search trees of bounded balance", SIAM journal of computing 2(1), March 1973.
< 1330214263 233287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that the impl
< 1330214264 159913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1330214265 838597 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Common Lisp a bad language in your opinion?
< 1330214295 528287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you can select a random element from a list without traversing it more than once.
< 1330214305 669183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle, anyway.
< 1330214318 630724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including no need to calculate the length first)
< 1330214327 611469 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could pre-optimize things by forming the tree into a tree.
< 1330214329 949739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not helpful
< 1330214333 324735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I know the length
< 1330214337 257675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can accumulate it as I traverse the tree)
< 1330214355 165899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that's not what i mean
< 1330214368 45948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, then?
< 1330214371 8663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this to be efficient, the list must be produced lazily.
< 1330214381 595897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consumed.  then this could fuse.
< 1330214383 350591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1330214386 630213 :tzxn4!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1330214388 192916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i highly doubt it will fuse
< 1330214392 998507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I doubt Data.Map.toList does
< 1330214393 462047 :tzxn4!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1330214396 831361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i may be wrong