< 1329868907 517725 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329869049 966808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1329870764 862061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329871192 724169 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329872778 619906 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1329872923 809568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1329873119 143520 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329873174 195317 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-119.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329873371 788677 :cheater__!~cheater@dslb-084-057-010-106.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1329873701 766661 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17|afk < 1329873958 332170 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329873997 957672 :jbander1!~jbander@69-176-229-62.static.izoom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329874137 157478 :jbander1!~jbander@69-176-229-62.static.izoom.net PART :#esoteric < 1329874469 745370 :Tiktalik!~tikfreeno@ec2-46-137-240-165.ap-southeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1329875208 963668 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329875235 986032 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1329876241 179819 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DA23.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329876267 536790 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DA23.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329876545 15582 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DA23.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1329876941 567023 :PiRSquared17|afk!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17|bus < 1329876947 363045 :PiRSquared17|bus!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17busy < 1329879827 890212 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329879988 28388 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i started writing an interpreter for a language but as i did so < 1329880004 337782 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i discovered the designer apparently had not been thinking at all < 1329880020 85286 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was supposed to be esoteric but it was just bad < 1329880075 438238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's most esolangs < 1329880150 238879 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the better ones seem to be legitimately interesting though < 1329882019 830604 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: http://leib.be/sascha/the-nil-programming-language/ < 1329882021 734317 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve < 1329882399 974628 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329882457 902019 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.231 QUIT : < 1329882681 401411 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-235-204.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1329882944 19340 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please kill me now. < 1329882949 256920 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1329882957 700066 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to tutor some idiot who was asking for homework help on Freenode. < 1329882970 155437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1329882977 713751 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy has a point. < 1329882984 419726 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether secretly monqy = elliott.
< 1329882993 386722 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't say that in #irp, you may not like the result. < 1329883314 686540 :PiRSquared17busy!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1329883391 471906 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1329883638 50779 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me: "Do you see any way to do an action for every edge that the vertex has?" < 1329883646 546742 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me: "Those sort of things often have names ending with do: or Do:" < 1329883654 856854 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He: " to:?" < 1329885259 12565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1329885316 2514 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any finns awake? < 1329885349 265386 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION
< 1329885477 194119 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf'za finn?! < 1329885488 510588 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1329885497 930202 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you speak finnish? < 1329885502 951014 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak the Finnish, though. :-( < 1329885542 188197 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless < 1329885555 310262 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finn who doesn't speak Finnish? < 1329885591 174309 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor Swedish. < 1329885596 126152 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1329885596 579063 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to learn. < 1329885604 604256 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLEP < 1329885741 152837 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solidity < 1329885741 774349 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1329885752 211543 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's no fluid, thats for sure! < 1329885767 147044 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I was just insulted. < 1329885775 809664 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can figure out how, though. < 1329886242 79324 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... wut. < 1329886269 730349 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is a Finn who knows neither Finnish nor Swedish ... and isn't a fluid, which may or may not be a bad thing. < 1329886315 893387 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Finnish passport is being shipped today/tomorrow. < 1329886351 329780 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, does Finnish citizenship come free with purchase of Finn-O's cereal? < 1329886360 171646 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1329886441 930190 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have nothing further to add *shrugs* < 1329886486 263888 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Get yours today! < 1329886500 274602 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was also drafted. < 1329886510 791561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1329886530 545406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=TwoDucks&diff=prev&oldid=30309 opinions on this edit? TwoDucks' computational class /isn't/ known < 1329886535 279467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's obviously TC < 1329886542 635830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that we use TC to mean Turing-equivalent < 1329886542 957586 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037] < 1329886550 506987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so many TC languages shouldn't have the category < 1329886553 870700 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's elliott. < 1329886563 175102 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ALAN DIPERT was in here, you know. Did you talk? < 1329886572 214519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk howso? < 1329886580 366230 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communicate. < 1329886670 526886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1329886683 596654 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you started your search. < 1329886813 719415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My search? < 1329886914 833195 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For a problem to be X-complete, it must be both X-hard and in X. If "Turing" is a computational class (all those things that can be computed on a Turing machine), then TwoDucks is certainly /not/ Turing-complete. It is only Turing-hard. < 1329886932 331163 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, "Turing" isn't a computational class, and our use of the term "TC" is something of an esocommunity invention :) < 1329887018 990202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I very much doubt our use of TC was invented by us, considering I hear it everywhere. < 1329887031 164957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TuringComplete < 1329887041 773252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people saying "lol every language is same because all TC" < 1329887070 316923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, I'm thinking about renaming [[Category:Turing complete]] to [[Category:Turing equivalent]]... < 1329887085 21704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR one of our other computational class categories is technically inaccurate too. < 1329887113 836241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Computational_class Hm, perhaps not < 1329887275 472840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this was discussed in the logs. < 1329887277 886798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll revert the edit. < 1329889638 902323 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-computable is totally a computational class. < 1329889658 772508 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turing-hard is totally well-defined < 1329889945 79032 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-144-177.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329890235 616627 :kallisti!~eris@h200.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329890235 957641 :kallisti!~eris@h200.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1329890236 144462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1329890405 591024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Who said anything about Turing-computable? < 1329890447 871763 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor said "if 'Turing' is a computational class" < 1329890478 588643 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the terms "Turing-hard" and "Turing-complete" are derived from the class Turing-computable < 1329890583 776166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone come up with a better subtitle for Esolang. < 1329890597 968113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to expurgate the existing one. < 1329890615 12621 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the current? < 1329890663 121869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible. < 1329890685 205387 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wish you lived near this guy http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1329881702774.jpg < 1329891172 243897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the subtitle even visible anywhere < 1329891185 162783 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :title bar maybe < 1329891269 32949 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if title bar means what I think it means, it's not there < 1329891275 469997 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i agree < 1329891285 47553 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea whatt0 the subtitle is < 1329891314 436028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible < 1329891374 359764 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1329891384 848613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1329891389 295345 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst subtitle < 1329891415 711340 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitesubtitle is the only place i can find it < 1329891461 20656 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1329891465 33871 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not so bad < 1329891488 748062 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very descriptive < 1329891490 821278 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1329891498 366644 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of quirky < 1329891508 921944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quirky in a bad way I dislike lots < 1329891510 893893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's visible in e.g. Whatever Blue < 1329891517 928857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cologne Blue < 1329891534 68355 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that's a different theme < 1329891534 372423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=cologneblue < 1329891534 558774 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a theme? < 1329891538 203656 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one uses themes < 1329891553 969599 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, cologne blue < 1329891581 347667 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is super ugly < 1329891600 611181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant < 1329891613 688951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :site subtitle: hi < 1329891615 309911 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a good subtitle < 1329891622 952587 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean elliott's < 1329891657 209094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :site subtitle: hello < 1329891663 467428 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOLANG "Irrelevant" < 1329891753 446333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tempting < 1329891776 597121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than weirder than you < 1329892160 548697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a unicode character that looks like < 1329892161 902559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1329892163 195855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like < < 1329892167 769833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's one line splitting into two as it goes right < 1329892197 536980 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :⋚ < 1329892202 99591 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes that one.
< 1329892207 714729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be more than one line it splits into, too < 1329892214 330007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Disambig_gray.svg < 1329892216 401661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unicode :p < 1329892242 902259 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want a code point for the USB logo? < 1329892264 331409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ≺ could work < 1329892272 876684 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one looks a lot like < to me. < 1329892284 747570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's similar. < 1329892288 606588 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :⪪ < 1329892289 708323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not ideal. :( < 1329892306 804993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't even see that. < 1329892317 186960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks good on fileformat.info. < 1329892330 481953 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :᚜ < 1329892342 636873 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :⊰ < 1329892364 530784 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't really sure what elliott is after.
< 1329892473 864235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that looks like that svg. :( < 1329892520 373386 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what you want. < 1329892529 806236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Disambig_gray.svg < 1329892545 405010 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete with the top line being an arrow? < 1329892563 355071 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And three things going out from the left? < 1329892570 138730 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :⎃ < 1329892574 103304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just something that vaguely evokes the same thing as that. < 1329892577 36294 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a great symbol. < 1329892581 874779 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing evokes frustration in me. < 1329893322 358360 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i don't seem to have that symbol < 1329893348 129959 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me to < 1329893348 982852 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1329893351 225612 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1329893351 909008 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1329893356 705509 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually try ms pmincho to look at such < 1329893780 787334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges LOOK AT WHAT I DO FOR YOU PEOPLE < 1329894128 130696 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i see signifigant contributions by graue and smjg.. they should be proud of the esolangs.org < 1329894721 644782 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott dateup < 1329894753 176036 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo welcomes elliott back to #esoteric < 1329895965 734243 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hath abandoned His creation and returned to that of another. < 1329896100 62969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you know that you can write Haskell programs that actually DO things? < 1329896134 302455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"welcome back to #esoteric" - #esoteric < 1329896177 104275 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell programs don't do things. Things do things. < 1329896377 894444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I can't write Haskell. < 1329896715 803990 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been reading about Common Lisp
< 1329896717 12192 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1329897360 461803 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1329898317 916282 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329898485 348679 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329898673 342651 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What did you do? < 1329898745 948929 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your last conttributions were 2008. < 1329898748 617657 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t < 1329898848 579851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1329898923 565543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: Oh, I'm [[User:ehird]]. < 1329898934 60970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a handful accounts for confusing historical reasons. < 1329898939 329857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely I kept forgetting they existed.) < 1329898951 407041 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I see. < 1329898983 82430 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a category for object-oriented esolangs? < 1329899007 23656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Object-oriented_paradigm < 1329899020 338099 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx. < 1329899023 630633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The main categories are listed hierarchically at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization.) < 1329899153 664204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the look of the 99 bottles of beer program in Stlang, by the way. < 1329899169 129804 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1329899251 985512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack based hardly sounds esoteric to me >.> < 1329899286 495771 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How's stack-based AND oop? < 1329899356 403789 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Factor considered esoteric? < 1329899359 764318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Similarly, since C is a non-esoteric imperative language, brainfuck is not esoteric. < 1329899363 889927 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1329899388 260195 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1329899391 411190 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd consider APL as an esoteric language, but it's not classified as such. < 1329899503 284842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is too practically-oriented to count as esoteric, I think. It would be nice if we had words to distinguish the "oddity" aspect from the "non-serious" aspect. < 1329899555 586559 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/64158 < 1329899572 93360 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can construct the diamond problem in Stlang < 1329899574 964319 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow at least. < 1329899658 83341 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok no. < 1329899689 531946 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*try* < 1329900303 837640 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT : < 1329900311 227941 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329900409 538623 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329900484 418715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LfHW ;; running queries directly on the database: bestest thing ever < 1329900587 797303 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I got this really great behavior where CapsLock both sends Esc *and* toggles lock. < 1329900606 238929 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-144-177.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1329900630 744335 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xfce4-settings-helper and gnome-settings-daemon were running at the same time, as well as a script running xmodmap every second. < 1329900665 180396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1329900673 722952 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/lbOQGID7 <- without overriding it's no problem (of course) < 1329900675 651514 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I make things any worse? < 1329900681 26653 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :three things applying settings simultaneously, a recipy for bestness < 1329900689 702398 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Fbgbt35l <- if everybody overrides everybody the last one wins. < 1329900748 236774 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the classic diamond problem: The last one wins too. < 1329900829 803954 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If D inherits from A, I'd call it the cyclic diamond problem :D < 1329900836 216336 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1329900838 5973 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A from D < 1329901159 100674 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/hG4cCjJT <- like that < 1329901173 509348 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1329901181 683654 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :inherit B C should be inherit B A < 1329901200 790652 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't change anything anyway. < 1329901551 316133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can safely say that multiple inheritance is esoteric. < 1329903967 544844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new language! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hollow < 1329904299 912793 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1329904309 799308 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :circular inheritance is way cooler. < 1329905304 540426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie Also: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid < 1329905304 726733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1329905998 961279 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no there's a flux inversion in the parsoid cascade unit. < 1329909008 918885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1329909112 460722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :1 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | Best for direct log access , See httP://64.62.173.65/%49%27/.%2E/lo%67s/_esoteri%63/#THIS_IS_NOT_A_SCAM | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329909282 320063 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-119.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1329909521 445314 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1329909521 772632 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1329909521 959186 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1329909629 976976 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-119.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329909738 416847 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1329909857 726848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1329909947 455127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: enjoy recent changes again :P < 1329910030 986976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1329910198 480875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) regarding the subtitle, how did you _not_ consider the matrix there. < 1329910249 778375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) maybe Category:Turing hard should be made a supercategory of Turing complete < 1329910274 869228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329910310 177660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :121 reddit comments about oleg and call/cc < 1329910315 821824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict 3 of them will be interesting or worthwhile. < 1329910339 50620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it because of the sum of distinct digits of 121 is 3? < 1329910343 459646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (1) THAT'S NOT PROFESSIONAL < 1329910354 285673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) How many pages would actually have that cat? < 1329910356 740784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1329910386 692651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks, Brainhype, Banana Scheme come to mind < 1329910417 617595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, better question: how many articles in [[Category:Uncomputable]] /won't/ have it < 1329910422 693822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1329910437 656020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which category is under discussion? < 1329910451 725212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (2) maybe Category:Turing hard should be made a supercategory of Turing complete < 1329910456 19366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re the TwoDucks cat change < 1329910462 388825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whoa, 46 changes in my RSS feed and they aren't spam? < 1329910481 529423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncomputable languages that aren't TH seem vaguely pointless < 1329910487 51975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, admittedly, so does most of the stuff on the wiki < 1329910524 640737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even more surprising: many of them are Graue's < 1329910535 611377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Gravity hasn't been proved TH, has it? < 1329910536 537786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, most of them are still mine :) < 1329910538 31329 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8981B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329910541 92260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, *Atom :P < 1329910566 646288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, only 46? there have been over 50 changes today < 1329910576 211556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer to 100 < 1329910579 88996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, = looks bizarre in my feed reader's font < 1329910596 591090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's using Atom, I just think of it as RSS because it does basically the same thing, and the user-visible differences aren't visible enough < 1329910599 886764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like relieving Graue of the stress of administration made him start to contribute again. < 1329910674 736844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well he did say he's become more interested in esolangs now. but for there to be any stress related to the wiki's administration he'd have had to do something other than ignore it ;) < 1329910693 876377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROCRASTINATION CAN BE HIGHLY STRESSFUL < 1329910705 485637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask an expert, i.e. me. < 1329910713 383975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: procrastination is not the same thing as being too busy to do something < 1329910750 157089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see you upgraded to IE 9. < 1329910817 304841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no i didn't. < 1329910820 215142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1329910822 861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be someone else. < 1329910826 105734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not convinced Gravity is TH < 1329910833 177024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP doesn't support 9. < 1329910873 533528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm also not convinced it isn't < 1329910879 498957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be kind-of hard to work out < 1329910905 827004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I see your IP now ;D < 1329910920 769692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1329910967 915568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A logsnoop-liott. < 1329910975 949046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it looks like Gravity is the only dubiously TH in Uncomputable < 1329910985 516190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's addictive! < 1329910992 596099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone just came in from *facebook*. < 1329911049 324483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately nobody could concievably connect pc112.ics.hut.fi with me. (There might be a proxy on the way, though.) < 1329911129 80620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, nobody told me about [[Special:LinkSearch]] < 1329911132 562865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used SQL instead < 1329911188 29291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, we have special:linksearch now? < 1329911194 152941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to use it on the old server, but it wasn't there < 1329911237 426765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah why the heck is Safalra disallowing the Web Archive? < 1329911284 561264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://safalra.com/robots.txt looks like it's explicitly < 1329911294 257436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i saw it < 1329911303 383616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.stephenmorley.org/robots.txt same on his new site < 1329911385 316177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some people like to be able to remove content from their site permanently < 1329911408 578977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : sheesh, nobody told me about [[Special:LinkSearch]] <-- yay! (assuming it's what i think it is) < 1329911447 435027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's this golf course search tool. < 1329911450 195339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you search for external links < 1329911469 642479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was right about that reddit thread, by the way, especially as Quadrescence has a ton of comments in it. < 1329911501 610617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan: hey, do we want inside wikitable looks a bit weird
< 1329914833 537933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because both change the background color < 1329914898 855591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not to the same one < 1329914957 385324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i noticed that < 1329914959 864175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to fix it P: < 1329914960 880602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1329914978 810982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how < 1329915492 329002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a hacky way would be changing the s to i think < 1329915607 922118 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :table.wikitable * { background: blaa } < 1329915623 971970 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how the override rules go < 1329915652 976181 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always do p > code or something to set it for the default case < 1329915706 934352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's a bit of a sledgehammery approach < 1329915713 170969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance that probably breaks the external link icon. < 1329915732 896095 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/\*/code/ if you just want that < 1329915744 972464 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But like said, I'm not sure if it overrides plain code {} or not < 1329915922 930343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the override should probably be on table.wikitable td > code < 1329915954 412926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that if you're putting more complex stuff in the table cells, you probably want the background contract < 1329915956 222528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constrast < 1329915958 607576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**contrast < 1329915962 936524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm the color is only different for the darkest wikitable parts < 1329915972 743276 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have th cells? :-P < 1329915984 995095 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And note that IIRC > isn't supported by IE 6, if anybody cares < 1329916094 448753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean the s, presumably < 1329916106 134541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ths on [[malbolge]] are presumably the topic here < 1329916115 593719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does Vector even support IE 6? < 1329916141 642559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that's where i noticed it first, anyway < 1329916145 683881 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Beats me < 1329916346 69808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probabilities are no longer finite" is one of the nicest error messages. < 1329916353 718228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are some pretty dubious probabilities there. < 1329916406 559007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You need a special drive for those. < 1329916473 890427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "non-finite probabilities" it's speaking about are in fact NaNs, which is perhaps even worse. They're not even numbers anymore. < 1329916474 77513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1329916507 485509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if subpages are turned on for a namespace, would the name "///" still work in that namespace? < 1329916533 968313 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-119.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1329916542 892006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would probably be interpreted as a subpage if there were a page called /, and possibly also if there were a page called // < 1329916554 936175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpages don't change which names are legal, just whether you get breadcrumb links pointing back < 1329916558 200956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but assuming there aren't :) < 1329916583 408657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... http://sprunge.us/OYEP < 1329916606 535148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two of those should clearly be deleted or moved (the Sandbox ones) < 1329916621 384162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/W/ this is ridiculous; any objections to deletion? < 1329916646 691791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was clearly just created to stop spambots creating it < 1329916651 445737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you may as well desalt it < 1329916655 332706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it wasn't < 1329916662 856792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cur | prev) 22:55, 20 March 2011‎ Iconmaster (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (78 bytes) (It's been popular recently, it deserves a mention.) < 1329916663 559825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wow < 1329916669 179662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a reference to the /w/s spambots like to put in page titles < 1329916670 232775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's offtopic, at least < 1329916675 485993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php < 1329916683 174868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's probably a good reason to delete it < 1329916686 839395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you delete it, i've deleted like ten things today already :P < 1329916702 262396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta distribute the blame!!! < 1329916745 224299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovely how the alignment of the right-side |s breaks down with multibyte characters. < 1329916796 761627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to MySQL. < 1329916828 812816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1329916840 42272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think turning on subpages for the main namespace would be a mistake < 1329916846 127443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just encourages people to put programs on the wiki < 1329916876 689434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, you can hardly blame people when getting a file on the file archive involves emailing somebody and waiting N days...) < 1329917273 193090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usual to use Talk-space subpages, rather than mainspace subpages, for that sort of thing < 1329917454 446833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people don't < 1329917465 864581 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329917718 129670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting that the wiki move seems to have shot activity up far past what it was even before the spam problem got bad < 1329917744 921448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ignoring my actions, there's ~25 recent changes entries already today < 1329917855 5493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happened on nethackwiki too < 1329917877 365424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in that case, it was an extreme drop in the obnoxiousness levels of the server (especially if you had Flash turned on) < 1329917903 375395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the activity sustains :) < 1329917985 69596 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, have the Google rankings of nethackwiki.com finally risen above nethack.wikia.com? It used to be the case that (for me) even for a 'nethackwiki something' search it returned wikia results primarily, and I had to use '"nethackwiki" something' with the quotes to make it return the proper ones. < 1329918029 362567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's different for different people < 1329918036 756734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Google's rankings aren't consistent between people < 1329918043 176963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethackwiki's been higher on Google for me for ages < 1329918051 601429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might not be representative of elsewhere < 1329918051 943147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should really figure out a way to trash the wikia :p < 1329918065 753918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we have, we're abandoning it and leaving it to gather spam and misinformation over time < 1329918072 969886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are a few tricks on the wikia version too < 1329918100 727562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, every query I try always puts the wikia first < 1329918104 781736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tjr used his admin rights there to get the new user welcome message to advertise nethackwiki, and wikia didn't spot it < 1329918107 989931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's evidently not effective enough trashing in Google's eyes < 1329918129 207885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is part of the reason we don't want to rile Wikia up, in case they do) < 1329918145 244721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam doesn't seem likely, since Wikia will do spam-blocking network-wide < 1329918177 29492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misinformation is hard to spot when you're looking things up for obvious reasons, so I'm not sure it'll be effective in driving people away; esp. since it's Google's rankings that matter mostly < 1329918226 759614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it came up on RGRN recently < 1329918226 946150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the spellbook read timings are wrong on Wikia) < 1329918253 398006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure Wikia is actually monitoring it actively? < 1329918254 588777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it still say (old site) in Google results pointing at Wikia NetHack? < 1329918256 968377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1329918268 61260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's impossible to find the new site from a random page, so it's not very helpful < 1329918292 242311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Google's Hertz-logo is animooooted. < 1329918295 743705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329918301 388073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would just throw caution to the wind and add a sitenotice that links to the new URL for any given page
< 1329918313 118643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was there once, Wikia removed it < 1329918316 177945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too obvious, presumably < 1329918329 156211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how soon was that after they moved? < 1329918339 430574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Wikia are still actively monitoring it, they have way too much time on their hands < 1329918350 977112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel compelled to point out that Wikia are really evil at this point < 1329918391 127154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. < 1329918405 378089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&action=history < 1329918411 894812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, there's no non-deleted revisions of any such sitenotice < 1329918417 189193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps they added it with some other mechanism < 1329918466 453595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC the deal was that Tjr could do anything he wanted to advertise for two weeks, then they'd put it back to normal < 1329918473 176011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they screwed up the putting it back to normal < 1329918530 414058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time I think more about Wikia's policy of roping in people to "start your own wiki" (when it's actually "donate your wiki to us") and then aggressively keeping ownership of it against the owner's will, it just gets more and more blatantly evil < 1329918908 23654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Bool) -> a -> Maybe a < 1329918908 424462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1329918908 625566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable find :: Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a < 1329918908 812426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mfilter :: MonadPlus m => (a -> Bool) -> m a -> m a < 1329918917 471017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \p x -> guard (p x) >> return x < 1329918918 228880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) b. (MonadPlus m) => (b -> Bool) -> b -> m b < 1329918977 802418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a shame you don't actually own esolangs.org; you could do the Most Evil Thing and secretly sell it to Wikia, like what I think sorta-happened with memory-alpha.org. < 1329919159 894684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I *want* to own it, so that I can set up IPv6 + email + such. < 1329919166 472988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then sell it to Wikia. < 1329919175 728021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not familiar with that incident; details? < 1329919208 519438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar-familiar with it either; http://en.memory-alpha.org/index.php?title=Forum%3AWikia_now_owns_memory-alpha.org&diff=935325&oldid=935131 might be relevant. < 1329919233 68577 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you might not quite get "move to Bahamas" money with it; the battlestarwiki.org guy was offered $2500, according to http://blog.battlestarwiki.org/2008/01/27/battlestar-wiki-buy-out-not-gonna-happen/ -- and it's borderline possible there are more Battlestar Galactica fans than esolang fans. < 1329919257 249214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gah, you forgot the useskin=monobook < 1329919260 614340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That latter was a link from the former.) < 1329919262 299530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful. < 1329919273 286230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Wikia goes out of business. < 1329919294 806381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...right after distributing standard XML dumps of all of their wikis...) < 1329919303 739521 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Whoever added that link to Wikipedia's Wikia article forgot it. < 1329919317 507705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's about wikia being terrible; the skin adds to the experience < 1329919335 468346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but discussions about Wikia being terrible are often on Wikia, rather than somewhere sane < 1329919362 373922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it seems that at least one regular RGRN poster has his browser settings locked down so far he doesn't even notice anything wrong with Wikia < 1329919364 711457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC (this information from Sgeo), Wikia actually buy up domains for your wiki that don't exist yet to lock you in. < 1329919379 394042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't surprise me at all < 1329919382 545643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least ISTR Sgeo saying that they bought creatureswiki.{net,org} or something without contacting them about it first. < 1329919389 346849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nethackwiki found a reasonably good one < 1329919409 461966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just two characters away from nethack.wikia) < 1329919409 661060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that was shortly after they started complaining about the new skin and started talking about moving off Wikia. < 1329919455 557902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see all three of nethackwiki.{com,net,org} go to the same place. Very professional. < 1329919467 595628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a company, an ISP, *and* a non-profit! < 1329919473 329885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, do we (Esolang) have a privacy policy? < 1329919483 781177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Tjr's been going crazy wrt Wikia and SEO < 1329919497 730477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he put a lot of effort into trying to get above Wikia in search results < 1329919500 801529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what's the most amusing privacy policy you can think of? < 1329919515 415323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point, he even considered buying sponsored-links advertising for nethack search questions < 1329919570 241448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, we should have a sane one < 1329919589 461586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, "note that your IP address is logged by user:ehird, so if you don't trust him with knowing what it is, don't even view the site"? < 1329919608 604406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust User:ehird knowing what an IP address is, no. < 1329919623 128597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should do our best to keep that knowledge from him. < 1329919649 143205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a small step from knowing what an IP address is to blowing up power stations remotely. < 1329919729 350001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more evidence of Wikia being evil: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3#Google_Analytics < 1329919745 867061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, perhaps I misinterpreted it < 1329919801 817193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it meant that Wikia agreed to add Google Analytics, but not to tell the wiki contributors the results < 1329919823 656048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it means they agreed to it, but then went back on that < 1329919844 536712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jayt inferred this is because they didn't want the contributors to see the stats < 1329919859 274244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not what reticent means < 1329919869 116160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it means they agreed to it, but only grudgingly < 1329919872 91715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, who knows < 1329919882 7576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I conclude there isn't enough information there to know evil from nonevil < 1329919904 141785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should maybe eat some apples? < 1329919935 618316 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329919956 62070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, "In constrast, foo is bar and baz" or "Foo, by constrast, is bar and baz", which is better? < 1329919982 239911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it should be "by contrast", but anyway < 1329919995 525249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer the latter < 1329920009 905996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, /me just misuses "on the other hand" for the purpose < 1329920069 534242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what the esoteric file archive needs is a wiki interface to it, or something < 1329920158 31845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : or, hmm, "note that your IP address is logged by user:ehird, so if you don't trust him with knowing what it is, don't even view the site"? < 1329920187 167985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "If you do not want ehird to see your IP address, please retroactively unload this page. (You may find [[Feather]] to be helpful for this task.)" < 1329920215 482913 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Hug~♪ < 1329920221 26081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but feather can't retroactively do I/O < 1329920238 702865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd only work if your server were written in Feather, and let arbitrary people do arbitrary retroactive unviews < 1329920239 20281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can use "Feather" and "can't" in the same sentence like that. < 1329920250 923441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog Feather.*can't < 1329920264 805516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll retroactively rewrite the server in Feather some day < 1329920285 921435 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-22.txt:07:05:16: oerjan: that looks like a Feather operator, but I can't decode it < 1329920294 85522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog Feather.*can't < 1329920300 94998 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-28.txt:23:37:31: elliott: even Feather can't do that < 1329920304 215517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only works if its current impl is capable of being retroactively modified, right? < 1329920314 79515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A serial offender, it looks like. < 1329920322 43217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1329920323 174446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fizzie: < 1329920329 436728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed. < 1329920333 896049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll retroactively make the implementation capable of being retroactively modified. < 1329920337 266445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1329920346 898651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :causality doesn't work like that! < 1329920357 396599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, to pre-empt your question, I will retroactively cause the Universe to have been programmed in Feather, making this all possible. < 1329920364 284343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all this < 1329920370 378812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's what they told Feather. < 1329920428 161582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the discussion I had at secondary school, about whether it was possible to have something so omnipotent it could have an effect on the universe despite not existing < 1329920485 432724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like whoaaaaaaaa maaaaaaaan. < 1329920566 957889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have, like, ten seconds to convince me not to install Wikia's skin on Esolang. < 1329920576 781964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't be an idiot < 1329920581 510049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, don't make it the default < 1329920586 713739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it wouldn't work properly < 1329920594 817947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of that crazy Wikia-centered sidebar and footer < 1329920602 148391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd make half, or probably more, of the articles unreadable < 1329920607 779393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not even convinced it's open source < 1329920615 232729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all i'm hearing is ways to make the wiki more esoteric < 1329920624 807400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wiki is meant to be useful < 1329920632 972591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffft < 1329920636 981389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was THEN this is NOW < 1329920671 419979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seriously hopes that elliott is joking
< 1329920677 958430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hope that a lot < 1329920693 994074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, you have to come up with a better subtitle < 1329920708 131106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the winning suggestion is "Irrelevant" which is only 50% better than the current one < 1329920721 912985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtitle or what? < 1329920737 731138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where is it displayed < 1329920746 52077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why can't we use "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity"? < 1329920770 833053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitesubtitle, and only in some skins < 1329920774 151283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the printable version of pages, I think < 1329920781 432004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1329920796 987245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know NetHackWiki's is "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki", but that was a blatant SEO attempt < 1329920807 684263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Cologne Blue might be the only thing it displays in, actually < 1329920810 901131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Google was having trouble figuring out what the site was about < 1329920826 91924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix of solidity thing is already in the hostname and on the main page, I don't think it needs to proliferate any further < 1329920844 952456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "Have a nice kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen!" :D < 1329920913 104473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not serious) < 1329921021 655709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably just be a mention of what the site is about < 1329921029 397377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("no, not that meaning of esoteric") < 1329921051 910765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1329921061 206132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "Stop using Cologne Blue" < 1329921063 755629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's hideous" < 1329921084 406245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss < 1329921153 807265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that'd be out of place on the printable versino < 1329921155 495130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version < 1329921203 436808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did WoWwiki end up moving to, anyway? < 1329921208 562549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329921234 631298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I checked, the printable version doesn't have it < 1329921243 690778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main still wikia < 1329921244 412122 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1329921247 35291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, must be wowpedia.org, which is only the third-highest WoW-related wiki in the DDG results < 1329921254 475797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other two are both Wikia under different domain names) < 1329921265 642799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2010, the administrators (unhappy with Wikia management) started an independent fork known as Wowpedia." < 1329921276 768401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens a lot < 1329921281 780249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On December 4, 2010, Blizzard Entertainment began to incorporate links to Wowpedia, as well as the database site Wowhead, into the new version of its World of Warcraft Community Site.[16]" < 1329921301 130141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, wowpedia uses [[Portal:Main]] as their main page < 1329921302 391895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you to blame? < 1329921312 376626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does wowwiki.com for that matter < 1329921332 899719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, I am < 1329921339 630050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was the main proponent of Portal:Main on Wikipedia < 1329921344 574616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it obviously never happened < 1329921355 790806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many people scared about whether it would actually work or not < 1329921402 123418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should probably just remove the privacy policy link from the footer < 1329921408 189084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying to have broken links in the standard chrome < 1329921502 592639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that split is interesting, wowpedia seems to have slightly more edits than wowwiki, but not by much < 1329921827 620546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// is such a lovely language < 1329921957 280985 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that works now < 1329921963 246471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does? < 1329921977 291613 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing "///" in the esolang's search bar < 1329921998 60658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, I made sure the new server can handle odd titles like that < 1329922007 772066 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1329922164 183525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Hey, your HOMEPAGE links to the OLD WIKI. < 1329922182 893614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has taken it upon himself to view every page of the wiki, or something.
< 1329922194 807280 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah! < 1329922213 168593 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, it redirects < 1329922228 684385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make a note to fix it once I've got the Luigi edit ready < 1329922236 744767 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1329922252 216865 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329922436 511935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, hey, I can grant this permission: "allows hiding the user/IP from the block log, active block list, and user list when blocking. (not available by default)" < 1329922450 265766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could use that to clean up the user list incrementally, as accounts get reused < 1329922472 712172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a good permission to grant to admins, indeed < 1329922475 429658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then delete the accounts outright based on their hidden status later, if it seems worthwhile) < 1329922487 276997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not too happy about hiding from the block list < 1329922494 15620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the user list part is desirable < 1329922525 698712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a list of hidden users anywhere public? < 1329922741 692436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1329922756 102028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, what do you call things like Ook!, brainfuck ciphers or brainfuck substitutions or...? < 1329922767 102216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck equivalents is the usual term, right? < 1329922774 516599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC Ook! has a couple more commands than BF does < 1329922811 835942 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn;t < 1329922815 234213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1329922821 285253 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has space for one more, but that is undefined < 1329922822 651948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, languages can be brainfuck-equivalent without being ciphers, I would say < 1329922833 944571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-RLE < 1329922853 216676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1329922866 989681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Ook? Ook? isn't defined < 1329922868 204069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's Cow that adds the extras < 1329922872 877322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a snappy term for these: < 1329922873 302423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Languages which make it easy to write programs used as typical examples for new languages: < 1329922873 489477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :** [[99]], [[CHIQRSX9+]], [[Hello]], [[Hello++]], [[HQ9+]], [[HQ9++]] and [[Huby]], < 1329922919 163023 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+-? < 1329922921 231580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well < 1329923003 485214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I was sure existed, but I can find no evidence for < 1329923216 357060 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1329923248 4749 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329924085 643784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.wikipedia.org&namespace=0&limit=500&offset=0 < 1329924220 563014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If someone claims to prefer the Wikia layout to Monobook, is that evidence that they're not actually human? < 1329924571 643264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there has to be a bot that can convert external links to interwikis < 1329924585 829283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1329924619 957758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ? < 1329924627 523407 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIBBLLII's simplest (to my knowledge) equivalent to iota's i combinator is a valid brainfuck program that prints the null character < 1329924644 432981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wiat < 1329924647 983320 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wait < 1329924697 22496 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tests if the current cell is zero. If it is, it sees how far down the cell can go. Otherwise, it prints chr 0 < 1329924709 468401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[-><]. < 1329924884 709774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, Ørjan: Are you the same Ørjan who sometimes came to the Hexagon gaming club in Trondheim? (I noticed that your home page is on NVG) --Rune 14:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC) < 1329924893 62324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this... concrete evidence that oerjan actually exists?! < 1329925032 498997 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only that there exists a real person with the name Ørjan. < 1329925093 349909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, Wikia prefer the Wikia layout to Monobook < 1329925224 432036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia is an entity, rather than a person. < 1329925232 427528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This adds evidence to elliott's hypothesis < 1329925240 260715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some person at Wikia must have decided that < 1329925431 515907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But he CONFIRMED it!!!!!! < 1329925490 141788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if oerjan were nonexistent, he could have been lying < 1329925516 786033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Adobe have decided to make Flash on Linux run only in Chrome < 1329925620 577972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, really? < 1329925625 844483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively < 1329925632 390297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like "no" < 1329925635 280029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they have a partnership with Google now, or something < 1329925643 846748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link pls < 1329925648 112497 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html < 1329925649 312528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are changing Flash to use a Chrome-specific API < 1329925666 778996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean the pepper thing, that's not chrome-specific < 1329925676 768708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is atm < 1329925676 955616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome is just the only existing implementation, but IIRC it's a completely public standard < 1329925686 188766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rival browsers aren't planning to implement it < 1329925699 182444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Flash Player releases after 11.2, the Flash Player browser plugin for Linux will only be available via the “Pepper” API as part of the Google Chrome browser distribution and will no longer be available as a direct download from Adobe. < 1329925702 765565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a Netscape plugin API <-> Pepper bridge will pop up in the next five seconds. < 1329925709 400507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, seems they're planning to distribute it only bundled with Chrome, too < 1329925710 740949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need for Mozilla to do anything. < 1329925745 960754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they're planning to security-fix the previous version for five years < 1329926440 475928 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329926564 612287 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329926674 747271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upssendorfs < 1329926734 709103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :62.143.96.18 - - [22/Feb/2012:15:38:40 +0000] "GET /wiki/User:6HeilPraktiker9 HTTP/1.1" 404 15054 "-" "-" < 1329926734 933009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :62.143.96.18 - - [22/Feb/2012:15:38:40 +0000] "GET /w/index.php?title=User:4HeilPraktiker8&action=submit HTTP/1.1" 200 17213 "-" "-" < 1329926737 235391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! < 1329926743 917714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think you're smart, do you?! < 1329926768 326019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd that it didn't send a user-agent that time. < 1329926797 42579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, does your atom feed URL use the lowercase c in Recentchanges? < 1329926802 928281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be RecentChanges; right now you're getting redirected every time < 1329926808 417522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc, it could be someone else) < 1329926858 257675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1329926865 884398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUSPICIOUS. < 1329927026 999203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/halflife is hilarious. < 1329927046 298567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :About a third of it is waiting for HL3. < 1329927084 31114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean HL2E3? < 1329927110 487434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA HL2000. < 1329927389 931117 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329927408 350106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329927626 583621 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make much sense elliott < 1329927731 153973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329927759 300695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1329927763 116802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1329927770 496033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: btw, does your atom feed URL use the lowercase c in Recentchanges? < 1329927770 683004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it should be RecentChanges; right now you're getting redirected every time < 1329927770 683204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (ofc, it could be someone else) < 1329927783 27722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ooh, more detail on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_(Keymaker) < 1329927789 380629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1329927806 740760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I fix it to avoid putting stupid load on you? or is it negligible? < 1329927810 346394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, I'll change it anyway < 1329927870 814690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now none of the pages are coming up in my feed reader, on that specific feed < 1329927883 253224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entries themselves are, but they're all blank < 1329927907 463847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... < 1329927911 393819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try resubscribing frmo the recent changes page < 1329927926 476386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the load is neglenglegegilble, considering that spambots are loading pages like every five seconds anyway < 1329927932 135575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1329927947 214157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, now the original feed started working again when I did that < 1329927963 564394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when I deleted the duplicate, the original feed stopped working again < 1329927968 980408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this or doesn't this make any sense? < 1329927993 706532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1329927996 349583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, grr, I'm no good at /// < 1329927999 653564 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are programms allowed to crash due to stack-overflow for a truth-machine :D? < 1329928007 301627 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make mine a bit shorter. < 1329928018 227689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: most languages don't have specified stack limits < 1329928023 798091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any such overflow is an implementation limitation < 1329928025 496395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I just deleted the other one, and am using the original < 1329928030 737887 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm using "until false" because that does not cause stack overflows :) < 1329928034 969263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like implementations of turing-complete languages can't usually use unbounded storage < 1329928045 284425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if your language doesn't specify a limited stack, it should be fine < 1329928063 737369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: and "while true" does? < 1329928077 36892 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no while yet < 1329928082 493574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1329928088 397971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if your language implies a limited stack? < 1329928098 29636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then it specifies one, surely? < 1329928101 877848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. C, where you can take addresses of things on the stack, and also calculate the number of bits in an address < 1329928138 166184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really crazy idea: in C, do pointers of the same type that are bit-for-bit identical necessarily have to point to the same place? < 1329928189 40582 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1329928203 528387 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :any while loop can be written as an until loop I think. < 1329928256 909778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ord 1 < 1329928260 493702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you just negate the condition < 1329928261 939155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot???f < 1329928263 939657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping < 1329928265 982035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '1' < 1329928266 740178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 49 < 1329928276 545763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is ^ord in BF? < 1329928291 409981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it must be, it seems unlikely to be implemented in hardcoded Funge, and it can't be done in Underload < 1329928313 355661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '0' < 1329928314 169615 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 48 < 1329928339 466213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was obvious, wasn't it? < 1329928344 503743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'0'-'9' are contiguous and in order < 1329928355 550080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in every remotely commonly used character set < 1329928364 661472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes his first FALSE program
< 1329928364 848362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even C assumes that, even though it assumes hardly anything else about character sets < 1329928367 12098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: too lazy to think < 1329928527 119940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan i tried to write a truth-machine in itflabtijtslwi but failed :( < 1329928527 345059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1329928574 985464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// is a really amazing language, actually < 1329928580 227359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those truly innovative esolangs < 1329928603 472611 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE OOK < 1329928649 145725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a whole bunch of esolang ideas are converging, and it's kind-of worrying < 1329928654 428824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, Anarchy, but pure and total < 1329928661 719140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this language would be awesome < 1329928662 106622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who thinks that /// and Underload aren't the best esolangs is super dumb < 1329928665 328310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also useful < 1329928770 537033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have a featured esolang, or something < 1329928778 800906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since most of them are so terrible < 1329928816 988187 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the discussion that we last had about that possibility is what led to the "day of the day" box. < 1329928820 978969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the concept of featured articles < 1329928834 218989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :per-month, probably < 1329928843 483820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'd all cooperate on forwarding the selected language during that month < 1329928844 329487 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[$1.!]$^?0. <-- truth machine in FALSE? < 1329928847 774133 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1329928847 960182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1329928854 515487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right; featuring the article itself is pointless, though, since Esolang's prose basically ranges from "what you'd expect" to "awful unformatted crap" with nothing in-between < 1329928867 940980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be the esolang itself being featured < 1329928870 948982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1329928872 597339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, ofc, an article of the former quality would be required < 1329928876 81262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the article isn't up to scratch, we go fix it < 1329928889 633031 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At first that would be fine, but interesting languages are not produced at that rate, so after a year or so we'd be scraping I think. < 1329928908 755698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in emergencies, we could repeat < 1329928911 945032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could easily drum up a list of 20 Esolangs immediately worth featuring. < 1329928918 509432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, we'd be better off for a few years < 1329928921 663627 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, in /two/ years or so ^^ < 1329928924 879355 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point. < 1329928927 702145 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two years it two years. < 1329928931 282600 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1329928937 855920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, we'd just have to create better esolangs faster ;) < 1329928943 751568 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1329928951 884933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case of droughts we could always just feature non-esolangs. < 1329928954 191168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like BF Joust, or such. < 1329928963 108876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there aren't many of those pages on the wiki. < 1329928976 828153 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329928990 332991 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can feature languages which would be esoteric if not for the fact that people actually use them < 1329928990 520030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it would inspire any hugely devoted effort to work on the languages, though. < 1329928995 295653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People aren't that committed to the wiki. < 1329928995 980017 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our first feature: COBOL < 1329929033 668292 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329929035 338876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, although I imagine we have more readers than writers < 1329929047 271843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd help newbies to find languages other than BF that weren't pointless BF derivatives < 1329929073 406403 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd also have to be careful to avoid making the wiki celebrate Cat's Eye Technologies Year < 1329929081 808731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see the problem??? < 1329929098 802444 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there yet an esolang featuring digital electronucs? < 1329929112 592932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: WireWorld? any of the NAND-based ones? < 1329929134 430996 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting to figure out what "electronucs" means. < 1329929177 118833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the main problem with featured esolangs would be deciding on them < 1329929203 44020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you come up with a list arbitrarily, I give good advice, Gregor gives bad advice < 1329929203 964458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the simplest thing would be to have admins propose them and have a quick informal IRC vote to confirm them. < 1329929209 572850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1329929213 88410 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we just need a small council to select a list, then have an open vote amongst them. < 1329929240 974352 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Every month FOREVER) < 1329929241 201089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we allow people to nominate their own esolangs? on the one hand, they're familiar with them, on the other hand, they're likely to be biased < 1329929246 999120 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1329929254 60557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's already 10x more bear-ocracy than anyone will bother to submit to ever. < 1329929280 767675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See every previous esolang collaborative project in history. < 1329929303 570318 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'struth. < 1329929325 726735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, the project that shall not be abbreviated as ABCDEF got halfway through before stopping < 1329929386 607036 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^48[[$1.!]$!]?0. < 1329929390 466453 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/xvT07d7U <- something like that. < 1329929427 242591 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, based on digital /circuits/. < 1329929432 748070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Did you just optimise my program? :( < 1329929440 759270 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. < 1329929441 38865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: wireworld applies, then < 1329929445 829875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329929446 739704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: also funciton < 1329929448 728801 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wireworld, Circute, ... < 1329929458 487687 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never saw your program < 1329929462 979552 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I corrected mine < 1329929501 597697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That's a truth-machine in FALSE, right? < 1329929505 279633 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1329929513 239141 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1329929516 622439 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next idea. < 1329929521 552609 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inspired by your description on how you were about to make one < 1329929523 111942 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an esolang based on analog signals? < 1329929536 79386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You can replace the one on the wiki with it, it's nicer-looking. < 1329929547 142167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to test it first < 1329929566 289634 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it possible to get a list of the most-viewed pages? < 1329929587 255380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: On the previous site, yes. On the new site, no, caching disables all page statistics features. However, I can get you the values with a little bit of work. < 1329929593 350818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from before the server move) < 1329929606 541810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to use analyse the logs to produce periodic counts of the most popular articles. < 1329929606 915415 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1329929610 962152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that'll be a manual thing. < 1329929632 603660 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ubs1uGQi <- which would somewhat look like this. < 1329929644 861263 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just wondering if those statistics are actually interesting, and not, y'know, ook and lolcode ... < 1329929666 686064 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^48-[[$1.!]$!]?0. < 1329929667 451602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: brainfuck, befunge and malbolge are the top few esolangs IIRC < 1329929680 851765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's http://web.archive.org/web/20060508040217/http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Popularpages but it's from 2006 so it's very out of date. < 1329929683 11106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check my SQL dump. < 1329929694 399719 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I suppose the truly interesting classics probably never make it to the top ... < 1329929704 635039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, it was better than LOLcode. < 1329929745 73537 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about whether featuredness could be a bit less human (and so less bureaucratic). Have the wiki choose five randomly with a heavy bias of some kind (top may not be the right bias), then have an open vote amongst them. < 1329929768 816034 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably won't actually work though, because the whole point is that some of them deserve featuredness in spite of nobody remembering them :( < 1329929771 391448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, please tell me the dump actually includes this >_> < 1329929788 438587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: clearly, we start off by flagging every page as "potentially featurable" < 1329929810 441791 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who has that privilege? < 1329929813 144936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whenever a new language is created, or just when we feel like it, we pick five potentially featurable languages at random, and decide on one to deflag as potentially featurable < 1329929817 273949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, I don't suppose you have a backup of [[Special:Popularpages]]? < 1329929822 165256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1329929838 172182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1329929839 652894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1329929841 174804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1329929841 401337 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :718) but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...] i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot. < 1329929842 601950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1329929844 154888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1329929849 585454 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :764) The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329929851 652179 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :490) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry < 1329929856 102160 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646) I think stealing is more appropriate < 1329929858 262082 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :515) fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. < 1329929860 120433 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Too many "we"'s there ... < 1329929870 485340 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, quote 515. < 1329929873 28007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it wasn't intended as a serious suggestion < 1329929880 34196 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whew* < 1329929881 346489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I like the first and last ones best there < 1329929889 44097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: opinions? < 1329929906 425578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :718 is ok < 1329929912 591962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :764 isn't funny out of context < 1329929915 361882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like 490 < 1329929917 323727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :646 is unfunny < 1329929919 831871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :515 is good < 1329929934 65983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so 764 or 646 < 1329929939 317876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 764 is more potentially funny < 1329929940 895808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 764 < 1329929942 417904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 646 < 1329929942 787476 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329929944 506110 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329929944 926524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1329929948 150607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just deleted two of them < 1329929950 565864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1329929956 609950 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I think stealing is more appropriate < 1329929959 819359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1329929960 926972 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1329929961 921817 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1329929963 47487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to watch the inevitable hg conflict < 1329929978 17843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 646 < 1329929981 968230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. < 1329929985 511725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1329929987 411215 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1329929990 297056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fuck the police < 1329929993 11640 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fuck: not found < 1329930000 32343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 3 < 1329930001 512827 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1329930009 199463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 646 < 1329930012 41954 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I think stealing is more appropriate < 1329930013 437351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 763 < 1329930014 497720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 763 < 1329930014 833111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 763 < 1329930015 240397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 763 < 1329930018 640253 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329930019 20446 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... < 1329930024 199448 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329930026 409050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 763 < 1329930032 695402 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329930033 750631 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329930034 699841 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) The mutable-integer Linux. < 1329930041 410446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if I can get a truth machine working first time in INTERCAL < 1329930047 198281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll write it in the channel without testing it < 1329930050 737616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then run it, to see what happens < 1329930079 729933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, it takes input (which will be 0 or 1), then outputs it once on 0 and infinitely often on 1 < 1329930108 329555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO WRITE IN .1 DO COME FROM .1 (1) DO READ OUT .1 PLEASE GIVE UP < 1329930109 708623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to tes tit < 1329930111 158881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*test it < 1329930111 562386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, Google doesn't have popularpages cached < 1329930120 165807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries bing
< 1329930142 340078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries altavista
< 1329930150 161662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries hotbot
< 1329930153 529853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1329930154 870317 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1329930161 105681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't bing and altavista both use the same index nowadays? < 1329930166 301150 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the old server is still up, just not assigned to the right hostname? < 1329930170 12952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they've actually redesigned HotBot < 1329930179 713671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ is up, but http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ is a redirect to esolangs.org/wiki < 1329930185 406205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 'DO WRITE IN .1 DO COME FROM .1 (1) DO READ OUT .1 PLEASE GIVE UP' | ick -y tty.i < 1329930186 768660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'ick' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1329930190 222430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think it's meant to do that < 1329930191 974998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Graue's deleted the files/database < 1329930198 752547 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mmm < 1329930201 441440 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329930212 266255 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PART :#esoteric < 1329930227 194549 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HotBot: The lame and now not even nostalgic interface to the even more lame Lycos. < 1329930231 271653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The value of $wgHitcounterUpdateFreq is then fed into a randomizer, which then updates the page_counter fields of the stored pages when the random number is equal to a particular value." < 1329930232 551160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, aha < 1329930251 811347 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wut < 1329930254 550173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, I can produce a list of popular pages < 1329930256 273003 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1329930264 539178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you have mysql installed? < 1329930267 342434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can't you produce one from the HTTP log? < 1329930271 393538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't want to import this database myself... < 1329930276 14489 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope < 1329930279 592604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, if you want wildly inaccurate statistics, rather than 7 years of them < 1329930284 80372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, tty.i corresponds to the terminal < 1329930329 243724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, gcc is spouting warnings < 1329930331 571038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I've done wrong < 1329930335 657591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what warnings? < 1329930343 818864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like autoconf.h is included twice < 1329930346 284676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: INSERT DELAYED INTO `mw_page` (`page_id`, `page_namespace`, `page_title`, `page_restrictions`, `page_counter`, `page_is_redirect`, `page_is_new`, `page_random`, `page_touched`, `page_latest`, `page_len`) VALUES (1,0,'Main_Page','',326802,0,0,0.28651027221839,'20120217091843',30117,2750),(5,8,'Monobook.js','sysop',335,0,0,0.197277670909909,'20070307173606',6847,3456),(138,8,'Currentevents','sysop',1472,0,0,0.525640084897764,'2010112407563 < 1329930346 471662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8',6980,13),(139,8,'Currentevents-url','sysop',1361,0,0,0.785110448286972,'20101124075619',6981,13),(696,8,'Sitesubtitle','sysop',507,0,0,0.365130377342115,'20070307173606',7538,16),(930,4,'Copyrights','edit=sysop:move=sysop',13015,0,0,0.135369432617,'20080222215606',11219,993),(932,10,'CompactTOC4','',811,0,1,0.387740738792,'20070307182825',7771,433),(933,10,'CompactTOC2','',785,0,1,0.159088183167,'20070307182825',7772,331),(960,0,'Language_list < 1329930346 759038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :','',354189,0,0,0.077168495063,'20120217091503',30115,11937),(961,0,'Brainfuck','',221566,0,0,0.114796326371,'20120216064007',29960,25003),(962,0,'Brainfork','',17362,0,0,0.082227920981,'20111205122553',23594,1929),(963,0,'Wierd','',19611,0,0,0.430107527622,'20110403214059',21696,2994),(964,0,'PATH','',13212,0,0,0.254976121008,'20110417190036',16910,2729),(965,0,'SNUSP','',15399,0,0,0.060558338388,'20111114190620',25201,10941),(966,0,'Smallfuck', < 1329930351 793469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'',23258,0,0,0.302840059147,'20110707024222',23595,2505),(967,0,'Spoon','',13058,0,0,0.468207379054,'20091112102619',16406,1751),(968,0,'LNUSP','',8342,0,0,0.035222082197,'20100428170446',17439,2667),(969,0,'Iag','',7871,0,0,0.063484546935,'20110401221642',21680,2093),(970,0,'Kipple','',11179,0,0,0.312570431762,'20101219051748',20514,3281),(971,0,'SMETANA','',12346,0,0,0.01475467089,'20110511152523',22747,3896),(973,2,'Rune','',5247,0,0,0.2022800 < 1329930352 863275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different values each time < 1329930356 766676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :78643,'20101124003549',7785,512),(974,2,'Graue','',6707,0,0,0.021217745259,'20080714005918',12063,209),(975,0,'Homespring','',9261,0,0,0.02780164489,'20110107230704',20691,1259),(976,2,'Pgimeno','',3847,0,0,0.16126854167,'20101124003540',14015,949) < 1329930360 474844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just want the (page_title, page_counter) fields from that, one page per line < 1329930362 843258 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh ... thanks. < 1329930363 244821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eagerly awaiting the appropriate Perl script, thx < 1329930369 613189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can have yer page :P < 1329930384 253458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my INTERCAL program works < 1329930386 953766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO WRITE IN .1 DO COME FROM .1 (1) DO READ OUT .1 PLEASE GIVE UP < 1329930391 755933 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lies. < 1329930393 233561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll put it in the article < 1329930458 424811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: test it yourself if you don't believe me < 1329930465 85466 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is only a popular problem because it is on the popular problems page < 1329930469 581266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if that's the first time I've ever written an INTERCAL program correctly first time < 1329930485 404385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: we're making it a popular problem, so it can reasonably go there < 1329930494 541667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is writing a deadfish interp on that page? because it should be < 1329930517 836006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's lumped into "interpreter" < 1329930605 730519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Popular_problem&curid=1135&diff=30415&oldid=30383 :p < 1329930618 286985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the context was for my stealing quote < 1329930626 208506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable enough < 1329930638 928785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog olsner.*stealing is more appropriate < 1329930648 998166 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog olsner.*stealing is more appropriate < 1329930656 129118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ais523 didn't typo < 1329930661 509099 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1329930673 223424 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1329930675 212562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our log scripts are designed for naming confusion :D < 1329930679 968747 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to say that pastlog made sense as an alias for pastelog < 1329930681 980232 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1329930695 789374 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ln -s pastelogs bin/pastelog < 1329930698 189527 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln: creating symbolic link `bin/pastelog': File exists < 1329930712 934862 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelog < 1329930715 371824 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Feb 22 17:11 bin/pastelog < 1329930721 120005 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelogs < 1329930723 714101 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Feb 22 17:12 bin/pastelogs < 1329930723 900656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `run ln -s pastelogs bin/pastelog < 1329930729 188499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an extraordinarily stupid command to run. < 1329930732 390625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it's been cped rather than lned < 1329930743 374105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since ./pastelogs doesn't exist. < 1329930746 717690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog stealing is more < 1329930755 68043 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-02.txt:00:44:04: `addquote I think stealing is more appropriate < 1329930758 202209 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, you don't get how symlinks work then. Hooplah. < 1329930771 462191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log 2011-10-01 < 1329930773 229738 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastlog < 1329930778 645166 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-02-22.txt:17:12:51: `log 2011-10-01 < 1329930783 132309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: symlinks are relative to the symlink itself < 1329930785 919072 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 102 Feb 22 17:13 bin/pastlog < 1329930811 291185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :http://64.62.173.65/logs/_esoteric/ | 1 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329930819 394156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Gregor with oerjan's flyswatter -----###
< 1329930839 130646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1329930844 609960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate ln(1)'s interface < 1329930857 550529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, you ruined the log URL < 1329930859 38636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to know what to do better, though < 1329930862 492920 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha, what am I being swatted for? < 1329930877 622064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pushing the links off the end of the portion of the topic /my/ client shows < 1329930894 181523 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fer < 1329930928 653786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there it is... http://64.62.173.65/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-10-02#004215olsner < 1329930945 329177 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | 1 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329930953 993704 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not going to look like a scam, it may as well have the real hostname. < 1329930960 856646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think stealing is more appropriate if you do it by copying the useful parts of the code (rather than e.g. building a library out of the reusable parts) < 1329931008 436465 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : what [if] you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back < 1329931010 934732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://5z8.info/getPersonalData-start_i1b6qg_back-to-africa | 1 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329931024 156657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thanks, ShadyURL!) < 1329931036 462852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was much better than the other thing I said about stealing, IMO) < 1329931048 323897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back < 1329931051 117090 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :808) what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back < 1329931066 17846 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1329931071 457567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an URL shortener that's designed to produce suspicious-looking URLs? < 1329931082 226444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, CLC-INTERCAL's networking allows you to steal variables from other processes < 1329931086 28359 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1329931086 323300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which causes them to not have them any more < 1329931090 468590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of similar < 1329931117 857717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, god < 1329931124 463411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants all the TOC links are broken < 1329931136 625115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1329931172 68899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes the TOC
< 1329931178 509342 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool < 1329931185 69473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* <-- Deadfish Interpreted Computer Language --> */ < 1329931188 697988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a worrying comment syntax… < 1329931208 146569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if the variable's read-only at the time, you can't steal it, because that would change it < 1329931212 438972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can smuggle a copy of it instead < 1329931276 675805 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal cares about preserving the values of read-only variables? < 1329931290 78456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it cares /that deeply/ < 1329931298 828217 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1329931303 968770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tzxn3 < 1329931308 969469 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1329931309 311667 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised, are you sure there isn't some keyword that will let you do it anyway? < 1329931331 620990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more to the point, it gives a possibility for unavoidable and unhandlable fatal errors that you can't do anything about and aren't your fault) < 1329931372 359418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#dc < 1329931379 497754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the odds that the non-code section of that were written by zzo38? < 1329931382 740474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't checked) < 1329931388 77757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, *was < 1329931427 740152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the code section was too < 1329931450 761795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that actually makes sense, in retrospect < 1329931454 2295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can we /please/ delete [[Cobol on Cogs]]? I just had to remove it from the /language list/ < 1329931474 542201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, offtopic < 1329931562 703335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1329931602 509563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your favourite Scheme-related report revision? < 1329931656 559885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1329931659 586122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 4, but probably 5 < 1329931669 254036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, 7 looks like it might become my favourite < 1329931683 268283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they essentially reverted to 5 and decided to do the exact opposite of 6 < 1329931693 154305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means they're actually making reasonable changes < 1329931705 814412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329931775 821246 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329931792 687284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, this anagolf deadfish thing is crazy < 1329931801 518467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of !=256, the winning person did !~56 < 1329931823 18829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means "interpret 56 as a string representation of a regexp, and check to see if the argument doesn't match it" < 1329931914 873449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how does /that/ work? < 1329931918 80938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1329931919 828582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1329931955 460236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, obviously < 1329931959 916045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just happened to hit all the test cases < 1329931963 749636 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done a truth tester in Piet < 1329931988 632105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: upload it! < 1329932003 29815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you mean truth-machine? < 1329932032 860369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems "I know it's not a popular problem since I'm probably the only one who has made them, but..." is turning into a self-defeating prophecy :) < 1329932044 211929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, do you think Clue (Keymaker) is TC? < 1329932056 297068 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a truth-machine? < 1329932057 413201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really looked into it < 1329932065 132819 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1329932073 871250 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes < 1329932084 682159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a program that takes input (which is always going to be 0 or 1, undefined behaviour in other cases), and outputs it once and halts if it's 0, or forever in an infinite loop if it's 1 < 1329932085 235068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine < 1329932086 638090 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1329932116 730174 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1329932125 233901 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1329932136 296516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> (if x == 0 then id else cycle) x < 1329932136 537084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (flip (flip if' id . (0 ==)) cycle) < 1329932151 390188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (flip (flip if' id . (0 ==)) cycle) 0 < 1329932152 173643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `if'' < 1329932155 933126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1329932192 878649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat [] < 1329932193 663107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[]... < 1329932196 769010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle [] < 1329932197 733339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.cycle: empty list < 1329932202 767822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1329932208 163310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume that cycle [] would be [] < 1329932215 421401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it can't reasonably be anything else < 1329932223 577289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I meant repeat, not cycle < 1329932226 363921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first example < 1329932233 103112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> (if x == 0 then id else cycle) x < 1329932233 913744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num [a]) => [a] -> [a] < 1329932238 211010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1329932251 390716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'm writing a truth-machine in Forte < 1329932258 536840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy apart from the infinite-loop part < 1329932258 724010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1329932264 574650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1329932267 928705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my first forte program) < 1329932268 354648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :be careful not to run out of numbers < 1329932271 316077 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so impartial. < 1329932279 124677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TTKi is what I have so far < 1329932300 250491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 202 PROFIT, obviously < 1329932318 489944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously, start with a value higher than 666, so that you don't have clashes < 1329932321 260204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, 1000 < 1329932322 525520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff | hist) . . m Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php‎; 17:33 . . (-90) . . Ehird (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Reverted edits by Ehird (talk) to last revision by Chris Pressey) < 1329932325 283921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what < 1329932327 903805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have two lines, each of which increases the other's number < 1329932332 309483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I hit rollback accidentally or something? < 1329932342 394416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a rollback to me < 1329932363 953767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 LET 999=999+2 \ 1001 LET 1000=1000+2 < 1329932378 776326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the usual way to do an infinite loop in Forte, assuming that 2 still has its original value < 1329932389 686281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I'll wait until I'm more awake to do it in Forte < 1329932401 605195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5:40pm, how are you not awake? < 1329932429 387337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I woke up before 4 am < 1329932813 584366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes his first befunge-93 program
< 1329932838 24108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and of course it's buggy < 1329932886 375080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :v @ < 1329932886 561799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :&v>1.v < 1329932886 562009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : >|^ < < 1329932886 562121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0^ < 1329932886 766298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna try to do a Whenever one < 1329932892 336251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely laid out, if I do say so myself < 1329932900 479396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, and buggy still :D < 1329932989 209528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :v @ < 1329932989 433255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :&>1.v < 1329932989 433444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>|^ < < 1329932989 433554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0^ < 1329932989 884147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1329932991 680945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice, isn't it? < 1329933111 720510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, it's still broken < 1329933280 124381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally fixed < 1329933283 84704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :v @ < 1329933283 271404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :&>>1.v < 1329933283 271580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>|^ < < 1329933283 271760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0 ^ < 1329933285 820591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :befugne am hard < 1329933337 40972 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#v_>1.@ < 1329933339 300656 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0^ < 1329933340 492951 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does? put it in user interps < 1329933347 732170 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh < 1329933352 869955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sigh, you shame me :( < 1329933355 290867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's a truth-machine < 1329933357 306983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine < 1329933359 863267 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#v_1>.@ < 1329933363 463757 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0 ^ < 1329933365 659136 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed < 1329933397 435655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can replace mine if you want :P < 1329933403 643021 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1329933447 878635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, how do you do input of a 0 or 1 digit in underlambda? ;) < 1329933449 728055 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that spec < 1329933455 385361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the opposite of a truth machine < 1329933470 55293 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1329933471 621869 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1329933517 711488 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 1 is supposed to infloop < 1329933529 327208 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#v_1.1< < 1329933532 577556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0.@ < 1329933540 478663 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks better < 1329933546 108392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# and _ is clever < 1329933567 488712 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going with elliott's layout: < 1329933568 844951 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :v @ < 1329933569 31454 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&>1.v < 1329933569 31653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>|!0< < 1329933569 31779 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : > ^ < 1329933590 696496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, I/O is one of the big hangups in underlambda < 1329933611 390749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Got ya beat: < 1329933613 207274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : &#v_0.@ < 1329933613 393704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : >1. < 1329933613 647356 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the zero is superfluous in both of these < 1329933634 877466 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You need to negate before the & for that < 1329933643 800110 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly have a strong urge to add a "featured page" box to the main page with a Droste-ish image of the main page as the featured page. < 1329933646 18034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think so. < 1329933651 78688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horizontal if = left if true. < 1329933652 888875 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Unless I misremembered _'s order: I tend to) < 1329933654 79504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked. < 1329933659 468205 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1329933659 655717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, yes, is bass-ackwards. < 1329933705 433100 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
_# .@# < 1329933711 472394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a Whenever program, but I'm not sure if it's compliant < 1329933715 627009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2#-read(); < 1329933715 845164 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 defer(1) print("0") 3#-1; < 1329933716 31810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 defer(2) print("1") 3#1; < 1329933730 348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
_# .@# < 1329933735 184453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#.
_.@ < 1329933736 532723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This almost works < 1329933738 567615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Deewiant < 1329933740 574628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-empting me < 1329933753 925136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dose the first one not work? < 1329933760 516467 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one skips over the & at the start < 1329933813 840590 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
_# .@# < 1329933816 408935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about this: < 1329933817 988067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #.&# :#_.@ < 1329933851 371879 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're skipping over the _ < 1329933855 422968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, right < 1329933875 982363 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: the canonical "print string" is >:#,_ < 1329933954 993970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out why #.&# :#:_.@ doesn't work on 1 :( < 1329933958 163609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends up going right < 1329933966 232260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see why, since _ is testing a 1 < 1329933988 993984 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to skip the @ from the right side < 1329933990 666246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #
_# .@# < 1329933992 878150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is broken, btw < 1329933995 286465 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone check my Whenever program there? < 1329934005 352381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try, now < 1329934006 464570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why? I should never go right towards it in the 1 codepath < 1329934008 693215 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How's that broken? < 1329934011 245163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in what? < 1329934013 304882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Try it on input 1 < 1329934014 855353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It halts < 1329934015 395765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-93 < 1329934015 584713 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It goes left towards it < 1329934016 942124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as you two < 1329934021 745370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYes, it does, but it skips it < 1329934024 115096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to the left-most # < 1329934032 992348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's not how # works in Befunge-93 < 1329934056 18106 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 is 80x25 < 1329934097 816752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, that one doesn't halt in ccbi --befunge93, at least. :-P < 1329934127 138978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#:_.@#1 < 1329934127 975362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close < 1329934138 237156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, I'm using some crappy JS impl < 1329934170 54297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I beat both of you, although it has a stack overflow in it < 1329934171 600844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&>:.:_@ < 1329934174 628466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it! < 1329934174 968741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#::_.@# < 1329934198 203882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because funge-space wraps, doesn't mean program execution has to < 1329934231 8499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's lovely < 1329934238 216977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It'd be nice to have one with constant stack usage, though < 1329934249 878822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sadly removing either : doesn't work < 1329934275 661534 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&# _.@#11 < 1329934279 360785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll put mine and yours on < 1329934282 739899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: &#::_.@# is nicer < 1329934285 141240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No explicit digits < 1329934304 389659 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it uses more stack D-: < 1329934313 812671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :&:.~#@_>1# .#< < 1329934316 805171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mine uses O(1) stack < 1329934325 177132 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it's a bigger 1 than my 1 < 1329934357 251038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I need to physically be in the computer labs to do this GPU programming < 1329934366 625969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can remote into the servers just fine, but they try to run it on my local GPU < 1329934371 542215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't made by NVidia < 1329934388 51762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kind of interesting that the program can run on the local GPU through an ssh -Y tunnel) < 1329934432 506353 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it on the remote X server instead? < 1329934453 673991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's actually drawing to the screen, or trying to < 1329934464 245370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can run it on the remote server without issues, but then I can only get text output back < 1329934470 142504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is no good, as I'm meant to be testing the UI < 1329934475 453054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I just independently rewrote ais523's < 1329934478 609170 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: &# :_:.@# is one char longer but it uses less O(1) stack < 1329934485 564457 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if OpenCL even allows this. < 1329934499 995552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, it's not an OpenCL issue at all? < 1329934509 437073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up to the X server what GPU it decides to run on, I guess < 1329934524 457513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As far as O(1) stack usage goes, I'm only interested in a shorter program :P < 1329934537 34945 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCL is irrelevant because you are using CUDA. < 1329934542 810297 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just complaining that OpenCL sucks. < 1329934545 671183 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well BLEH < 1329934598 746405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well, I'm using an Intel graphics card, so I'm not using CUDA < 1329934609 127000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an NVidia graphics card on the server I'm trying to remote into, but it seems to be irrelevant < 1329934626 466794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if you'd ever wondered why servers needed top-of-the-range graphics cards, this is the explanation) < 1329934685 474937 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said that it would only run on nvidia GPUs. < 1329934725 17883 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a truth machine in Madbrain. < 1329934736 787384 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, a thruth machine is not turing complete. < 1329934751 288900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it does only run on nvidia GPUs < 1329934758 879465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because CUDA's an NVidia thing < 1329934799 598062 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.supermicro.nl/products/nfo/files/gpu/SW7046GT_FC405.jpg < 1329934842 839379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: huh? < 1329934885 717323 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1329934905 601699 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whuh? < 1329935080 64468 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think Madbrain can not be turing complete < 1329935286 869406 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless somebody finds a way to duplicate data < 1329935352 297399 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie if someone finds a program in madbrain, which reads one number from the user and outputs it twice < 1329935576 646984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: can't you just use control flow to duplicate data? < 1329935580 522745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, do you think this direct quote is a copyvio? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bub < 1329935592 774138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be fair use, I suppose < 1329935595 399219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do an if statement to determine between 0 and 1, then push twice < 1329935608 987354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's fair use < 1329935636 688706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done a MarioLang Truth Machine for fun. < 1329935640 68653 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I put on page? < 1329935642 964471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1329935649 354106 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if also destroys data < 1329935662 181080 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(a>b) <- you lose a and b < 1329935668 398134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: doesn't matter, the data, when destroyed, survives in the control flow < 1329935682 789082 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is right < 1329935684 654798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can get the data-dependent bit of the control flow to push the same data back twice < 1329935707 710675 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. ic < 1329935711 456085 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if (a=0) push 0, push 0. if (a=1) push 1. push 1. repeat for all a < 1329935765 659294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: actually, it's more like if(a=0) push 0, push 0 else push 1, push 1 < 1329935768 662969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I forgot I could be doing these edits as a bot < 1329935770 212630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a isn't preserved by the comparison < 1329935770 498059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1329935777 333130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well bloat recent changes more now that I've started < 1329935785 320678 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: havent actually read the madbrain spec < 1329935841 713633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://5z8.info/getPersonalData-start_i1b6qg_back-to-africa | 1 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329935847 412881 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ZpDXbI41 <- that can print the number twice < 1329935851 209287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that URL doesn't look like a logs URL at all < 1329935854 150074 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if and only if the number is either 0 or 1 < 1329935863 965951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1329935866 579597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 and 1 is all you need < 1329935895 594350 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make it indeed turing complete < 1329935896 909612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more interesting, at least for me, is the way that there's no way to push to the bottom of the stack, but a whole bunch of commands pop from there < 1329935905 215778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is about whether you can get infinite storage < 1329935906 360273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code for duplicating a bigger number (written as a string of 1s and 0s) might be complicated? < 1329935916 799348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1329935919 709330 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes < 1329935953 599931 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1329935958 69991 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just nested ifs will do it < 1329935970 630716 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it would < 1329935980 283859 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if does not compare the two top-most elements < 1329935984 530725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm disappointed by your link, I was hoping codepad would do Madbrain < 1329936009 207721 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compares the element at the top with the element at bottom < 1329936059 875968 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicating a number with 2 bits is already complicated enough < 1329936228 697014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick with such languages is to typically not try to treat them like regular languages < 1329936236 784802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could quite possibly do cyclic tag in madbrain, for instance < 1329936261 937306 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've done a Numeric Topline one < 1329936263 128877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16469004801100010 < 1329936308 402106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think literals, g and q are by themselves enough for TCness < 1329936308 637770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1329936311 431178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally i am done < 1329936336 117376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, Madbrain isn't categorised < 1329936352 918363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :183 recent changes entries today < 1329936355 518416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has to be some kind of record < 1329936357 972375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'M ON IT < 1329936360 172361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cleanup machine
< 1329936394 260820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: did you invent it in 2010? < 1329936405 855053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, and almost all of them are non-spam! < 1329936411 309039 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1329936414 18556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: 100% of them, actually < 1329936422 663096 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This new wiki is AWESOME < 1329936422 849778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, regular tag is simpler than cyclic tag < 1329936427 570634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go Alan Turing year! < 1329936438 459138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman = Feuermonster? < 1329936442 566340 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1329936445 910538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag, OK < 1329936448 28810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1329936488 719976 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly two years and it's still not proofen to be either turing-complete or non-turing-complete :) < 1329936579 252574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: it's TC < 1329936585 871535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a tag system -> madbrain compiler right now < 1329936603 341507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I make that interp read the file to input from the command line, rather than always opening input.mb? I don't really know Python < 1329936645 782448 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6 or 3.2? < 1329936658 583187 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :change it to < 1329936659 673672 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, Python 2.x or 3.x < 1329936667 875376 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :f=open(sys.argv[1],"rb") < 1329936674 315148 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe sys.argv[0] < 1329936681 253335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reformats http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine
< 1329936684 506634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was getting unwieldy < 1329936688 690292 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw_input()? < 1329936721 490873 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean in a "readline" style then open(raw_input(),"rb") < 1329936748 465215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant argv < 1329936758 346705 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :f=open(sys.argv[1],"rb"); then < 1329936766 287024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1329936768 190182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1329936816 26105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The 'b' is redundant unless you care about Windows and want binary newlines. < 1329936820 975594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in \r\n newlines.) < 1329936831 288102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1329936836 638730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was just making a minimal change to the program < 1329936838 221241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, you probably want "with open(...) as f:" < 1329936845 728070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the existing interp, that is < 1329936847 833977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for deterministic resource allocation < 1329936852 728623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1329936870 847706 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :deterministic resource allocation? < 1329936914 191032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: There's no guarantee that the file handle will be closed in a timely fashion if you just open() and leave the finaliser to close it. < 1329936926 598049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPython uses refcounting so it will, but other implementations don't and there's no guarantee CPython always will. < 1329936932 949646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, leaking one file handle is not the biggest deal in the world. < 1329936960 306882 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :file handles should be freed by the os on program termination anyway < 1329936975 619133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: first line in the Madbrain program is numbered 1? < 1329936994 511290 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses an array. So it is zero based. < 1329937002 759970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1329937012 77985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks this sounds suspiciously like an implementation detail
< 1329937030 679213 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'd better not look at Stlang. < 1329937039 120091 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has python implementation details hidden all over the place ;P < 1329937069 583309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, is it just me or is the "enhanced" recent changes worse than the normal recent changes? < 1329937101 911875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's less useful, indeed < 1329937191 387144 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy, all your commit summaries are /so British/. < 1329937229 750309 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The r opcode is also an implementation detail I guess. < 1329937314 825169 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to read from stdin you should change it to < 1329937320 291159 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elif(l[i]=="r"):s.append(int(sys.stdin.read(1))) < 1329937326 106221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do a no-op in madbrain? or can't I? < 1329937342 865779 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1329937346 207402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1329937357 416693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be mentioned in the spec, reallyt < 1329937358 921311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1329937368 766003 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :any char which is not an opcode is a nop < 1329937376 483781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1329937394 970771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ise is not even en-gb-x-oed, so it's not that british :) < 1329937418 999198 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1329937440 553795 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1329937440 740415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1329937450 610063 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns the network meters off.
< 1329937459 122250 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only ever confuse me. < 1329938010 156689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-226.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329938018 994808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-223-60.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1329938025 184697 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329938048 553065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why isn't this working? < 1329938077 491136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why isn't what working? < 1329938079 319028 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329938082 259808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1329938085 105683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1329938088 971140 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's people's opinions on Solaris? < 1329938091 170845 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Hello! < 1329938109 15933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: the proprietary version is Oracle-controlled < 1329938115 848280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but solaris is famous for being fairly crappy as far as userland goes < 1329938126 109040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, we don't know that the constants on [[brainfuck constants]] are optimal, do we? < 1329938138 204895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1329938147 842490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some are provably optimal, like + fo r1 < 1329938149 484336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+ for 1 < 1329938151 183123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes :) < 1329938157 311123 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have came into possession of a CD containing a copy of Solaris 11 through possibly mildly illegal means < 1329938183 771973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking that since they establish lower bounds that reduce the program-space vastly, and since two of BF's instructions can't be used in them, it might be feasible to brute-force better ones < 1329938202 251123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: put it on a VM? < 1329938205 952141 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329938236 884191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22/Feb/2012:19:16:47 +0000] "GET /wiki/Jot HTTP/1.1" 200 6227 "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot" < 1329938248 171276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good thing WP has articles on a bunch of non-notable esolangs, or we'd get no traffic < 1329938286 268816 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1329938365 966223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it works < 1329938368 30809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madbrain is TC < 1329938392 59600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1329938392 715585 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  ¦ < 1329938392 902180 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 ´¸¨ < 1329938403 9751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, myndzi. < 1329938406 995622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know here if a 2-tag system with an alphabet of size 9 can be TC? < 1329938416 346686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyone here know < 1329938424 146962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably sure it can be, 9's easily large enough < 1329938430 907902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if one's a halt state < 1329938502 488159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new MediaWiki diff colours are so weird and new < 1329938512 79309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki&diff=55218&oldid=54686 < 1329938638 455156 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1329938648 651125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know who'd know if my Whenever program would work or not? < 1329938652 600288 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Morgan-Mar! < 1329938754 584335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET /w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&returnto=Talk%3AMain_Page?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&ret... < 1329938758 193212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these spambots... < 1329938868 684167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, now I'm confused -- "Turing-equivalent" is identical to "Turing-complete" when said of a language, right? < 1329938889 334378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, according to mark chu-carroll, "turing-complete" is meaningless for a language < 1329938908 760294 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Banana Scheme and its ilk are Turing complete but not Turing equivalent < 1329938910 285950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if turing-complete is meaningless for a language, surely turing-hard is as well? < 1329938910 681251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turing-complete program is one that can only be implemented in a turing-equivalent language < 1329938919 291459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no, banana scheme and its ilk are _not_ turing-complete < 1329938922 663351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like twoducks isn't < 1329938947 495882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I'm going to figure out what complexity theorist invented the "complete" and "hard" terminology < 1329938947 906228 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can implement arbitrary Turing machines < 1329938948 919339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kill them. < 1329938957 666940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes, but that isn't what Turing-complete means (if anything) < 1329938958 55522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes ahead and says "turing complete" on the wiki mainspace anyway
< 1329938967 871109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if turing-complete is meaningless for a language, surely turing-hard is as well? < 1329938972 343019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1329939002 725460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks we should use the wiki to POV-push our favourite pedantically-correct terms for things, but is too confused about this one to figure out whether we should or not
< 1329939099 665154 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned, "Turing-hard" means "capable of implementing a universal Turing machine," and "Turing-complete" means both Turing-hard and "capable of being implemented by a Turing machine." That last one's a bit tricky since it gets into nitty issues of encoding and such, but I think usually gives the right idea. < 1329939134 488845 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Turing-Hard meant "I/O aside, cannot be implemented on a Turing Machine" < 1329939139 509687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Madbrain proof is on the wiki now < 1329939146 766855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The former admits . < 1329939148 582887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: that wasn't difficult, you should have asked me earlier :) < 1329939156 264594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You need some universal quantification in there. < 1329939173 832964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92) < 1329939198 27425 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The whole point of "Turing-hard" is to admit such languages. < 1329939226 876739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Huh? But that's irrelevant to languages that can do "all UTMs + more". < 1329939241 907476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your definition of TH and TC both admit fancy-L. < 1329939269 152569 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait wait, m-- argh, Fancy L seriously ruins everything always. < 1329939302 55957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Turing-hard should be "capable of implementing every universal Turing machine". < 1329939310 422036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your definition of TC can stay unchanged. < 1329939337 594069 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right right. < 1329939343 897119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks basing things on Turing machines might be a mistake, since they're so unlike most languages.
< 1329939350 933562 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the terms are all still silly since "Turing" isn't a computational class. < 1329939352 982974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're more like CAs than languages, really. < 1329939375 643472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So what should we call things that can implement all UTMs, and what should we call things that are equivalent to UTMs? < 1329939449 495200 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill and Steve. < 1329939467 296490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1329939504 667785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, all Steves are Bills, but not all Bills are Steves < 1329939519 563049 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the Steves that are fancy L < 1329939534 722367 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, should I email DMM concerning my Whenever program? < 1329939543 327247 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy L? < 1329939552 97789 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92 < 1329939552 885188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the truth machine is actually really quite a good concept for showing off languages < 1329939575 70671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw this, I'm sending this email < 1329939588 55954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's inspired < 1329939588 242327 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent < 1329939600 786177 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't even know what a tag system is and how they work ;) < 1329939624 443019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an article for that! < 1329939624 992950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tag_system < 1329939628 650607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A tag system is a restricted kind of Post normal system where productions can only be uniquely selected based on the first symbol of each of their antecedents." < 1329939632 28654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe that's not very helpful. < 1329939635 558168 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :your compiled example programm apparently leaves the stack in a state of < 1329939638 776022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: they're on my list of "things to compile into languages to prove them TC" < 1329939645 783480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the definition section is a bit clearer! < 1329939646 582514 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :of [3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 1] < 1329939651 568200 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose a particular value for L and P, map turing machines to programs written for that L and P < 1329939656 869065 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that's a mapping < 1329939660 465659 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I missing something? < 1329939660 952235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that article used to be even "better": http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Tag_system&oldid=1342 < 1329939665 388517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in other news, I passed that Open University module < 1329939667 19993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ol' R.e.s. < 1329939671 321384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: H3333331 (halt). < 1329939677 349647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Open University < 1329939680 57725 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :653) [in the context of Open University] "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" < 1329939680 368690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like R.e.s. has left the wiki :( < 1329939684 653589 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i saw that. < 1329939690 304064 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that the H is missing ;) < 1329939698 287696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you put an H on the stack? :) < 1329939713 629843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, should I install Cite on Esolang? < 1329939714 771020 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no idea what < 1329939720 593769 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :3333331 should mean < 1329939721 920840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does it do? < 1329939722 473441 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 211 < 1329939726 797947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: it doesn't mean anything, it's abstract < 1329939728 13735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and < 1329939733 559611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tag_system and http://esolangs.org/wiki/P%E2%80%B2%E2%80%B2 currently both fake it < 1329939738 6790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1329939740 858736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think it'd be useful < 1329939766 621674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is mostly just annoyed at the inconsistent formatting of footnotes :P
< 1329939768 172774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: not all languages work the same way; tag systems are mindblowingly low-level < 1329939774 121245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like asking what 01001101 means < 1329939801 53146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you might find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_system helpful < 1329939811 955159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In even more news, I am fairly confident elliott is real < 1329939858 744048 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmmmmmm, Sgeo has a point and I don't recall what the answer is; if you choose to map all UTMs to a fixed L, P, then your mapping's range isn't all possible fancy-L programs, but it's still a valid mapping ... < 1329939882 404807 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2 appends 331 < 1329939903 804040 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why is the 1 dropped? < 1329939913 151775 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :211 -> 1331 (not 11331) < 1329939919 837711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well the mapping has to preserve semantics :P < 1329939926 483790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1329939937 722261 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So? Your L,P /is/ a UTM. < 1329939948 354301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. < 1329939962 492998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :L and P aren't relevant. < 1329939966 784985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just pick two values. < 1329939971 184788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And call it ℒ. < 1329939977 592810 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I pick any L, and P as an implementation of a UTM. < 1329939979 462705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original L was Pascal and the original P was a brainfuck interpreter. < 1329939985 102500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That results in the *language*. < 1329939988 644592 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1329939992 785057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's ℒ(Pascal,BF interpreter) you have to prove Turing whatever. < 1329940013 439924 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it always removes 2 digits < 1329940017 812888 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329940021 81630 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just looks at the first. < 1329940035 470069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In conclusion idgi :P < 1329940035 878570 :kallisti!~eris@h184.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940036 235601 :kallisti!~eris@h184.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1329940036 422553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940043 152636 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940043 339450 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1329940043 339615 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940047 269910 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohoh, the problem is the quantification, duh. The claim is about fancy-L for all fancy-L. < 1329940049 178010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back later < 1329940049 880489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329940070 266736 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would argue that the mapping exists, it's just not discoverable. < 1329940125 101371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure what you mean >_> < 1329940129 693928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think L and P are confusing things. < 1329940139 717591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're essentially just an explanation device. < 1329940151 723215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't factor in any proofs of TCness or whatever because they're fixed right at the start of discussion to set a language. < 1329940231 122497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The major criticism regarding Cite.php is that it renders the editing of references much more tedious. Moreover, because many casual Wikipedia users are not familar with the cryptic Wikitext tags that they find with the use of Cite.php, it is likely that the net effect of Cite.php is often to deter new users from making edits to reference sections. Although Wikipedia supposedly got its name from the Hawaiian word "wiki-wiki", meaning "quick-quic < 1329940231 345154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :k", Cite.php is arguably neither quick nor easy for the average Wikipedia user." < 1329940241 62750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know when you see a criticism section and it's immediately obvious it was written by one person? < 1329940455 734127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329940461 294180 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm back to not getting fancy-L at all again. < 1329940469 335106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940538 136664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, let me explain it without any polymorphism. < 1329940551 915793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy L is a language designed by blah in the year blah. < 1329940565 728779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one instruction: B -- reads a brainfuck program and input (in dbfi) from stdin, and runs it. < 1329940572 845263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Fancy L TC? < 1329940576 805767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in dbfi format < 1329940588 736226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And no program can contain anything but a single B instruction.) < 1329940597 931675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So "B" is the sole Fancy L program.) < 1329940638 695757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the one hand, there is a Fancy L program that interprets arbitrary brainfuck programs, and brainfuck is TC. Proofs of TCness by implementing a brainfuck interpreter are very common. < 1329940646 640656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, you cannot translate an arbitrary UTM into a Fancy L program. < 1329940648 678766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1329940740 153688 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would argue that we've essentially just found a corner where our encoding is hurting us. Turing machines do not have input distinct from state. If you consider a program by that notion, such that the only way to consider a program in reduced-fancy-L is with both state (well, code) and input, then certainly it's TC. If not, then we can argue about pedantry forever :) < 1329940750 419833 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940750 711457 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1329940750 897747 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1329940786 819674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, the whole point of Fancy L is to poke at that ambiguity :P < 1329940802 433315 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, yeah, I know that X-D < 1329940810 202602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that we intuitively don't want Fancy L to be TC, so we need to use definitions of TCness that exclude it. < 1329940816 953907 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure sure. < 1329940820 382209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then we get the result that implementing BF in a language is *not enough* to prove it TC. < 1329940822 843863 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give, you're right < 1329940831 500490 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether Fancy L is TC or not depends on how we ignore I/O < 1329940836 650397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we have to write complicated compilers insteadd. < 1329940838 421120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instead < 1329940898 556822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I'm not sure what I'm meant to be right about. < 1329940901 874685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the topic is at all :P < 1329940942 947084 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329941002 14255 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was just viewing the whole problem wrong, since the point, as you said, is to poke at that distinction. < 1329941023 604988 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think the page could be written better :) < 1329941041 350498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically just copied cpressey's original description, IIRC. < 1329941044 235766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me find a link to it... < 1329941062 321399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Befunge/index.php < 1329941063 968357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the last comment < 1329941180 968130 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Fancy L anyway? < 1329941200 584864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex computer science that I don't fully understand. < 1329941208 682601 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a link? < 1329941227 275677 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman, an attempt to pry at some assumptions in the definition of Turing-completeness. < 1329941227 718298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92 < 1329941290 642298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO complex < 1329941324 309670 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simple in the problem it poses < 1329941329 533294 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex in the solution to the problem < 1329941336 209710 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1329941349 823877 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language with one instruction which reads a BF program from stdin and interprets it? < 1329941356 389965 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that? < 1329941370 737150 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1329941385 260886 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329941385 261097 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1329941387 147441 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that language Turing Complete? < 1329941389 879459 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: His very first line on its description would have cleared up everything ;) < 1329941435 746340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good thing it's a wiki and you can edit it! < 1329941506 5404 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329942397 861111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1329942480 756255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523 isn't here, i was going to swat him for stealing the flyswatter. < 1329942480 942608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1329942493 972765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Oerjan < 1329942506 52122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329942515 463511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1329942686 953753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an itflabtijtslwi (wow i didn't have to expand the acronym before typing it!) truth-machine is probably going to need the entire main loop scaffolding. < 1329942724 513055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, it shouldn't be that hard. < 1329942797 977691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek you've talked a lot < 1329942847 377187 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Count the links to fancy L < 1329942882 836286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh more than 100 edits since i logged off as well < 1329942886 724035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wiki < 1329942946 202000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with this wiki traffic i almost miss the spammers, at least i could skip their new pages :P < 1329943094 420846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that truth machine got a real popular problem really fast :P < 1329943101 183576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*became < 1329943114 992022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1329943122 427172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm responsible for at least three < 1329943232 137332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ais523 for stealing the flyswatter. -----###
< 1329943250 465782 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's listed unter popular problems, so it has to be . < 1329943253 963907 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*under < 1329943271 66268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: you realize it was put there today, right < 1329943302 738376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just checking) < 1329943409 758667 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Of course, I'm joking. < 1329943647 471626 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is now a BIT Truth-machine < 1329943730 246232 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1329944093 524309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1329944105 161170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: most of the edits are resource -> resources ;P < 1329944107 383919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1329944177 241789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1329944196 362273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least mediawiki tabs are lightweight < 1329944225 912671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1329944312 505213 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alan Turing is turing complete :-D < 1329944337 463254 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is a proof that humans can devise turing machines. < 1329944343 758323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: that is fairly unlikely, and not just because he's dead. < 1329944349 477988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to devise something isn't the same as being able to implement it < 1329944358 881077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily output a representation of a turing machine with cat < 1329944362 55513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make cat TC < 1329944377 96218 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alan turing was completely turing < 1329944384 665956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that he was. < 1329944392 173503 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1329944393 295636 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CT < 1329944487 17461 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok < 1329944517 924236 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proof that alan turing is turing complete is he can program with http://esolangs.org/wiki/English < 1329944546 138974 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1329944575 339624 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wonder if there is any natural languge which is not TC < 1329944690 401912 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya.. i'll afk < 1329944710 972953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: no that isn't a proof. you need to show he can _run_ any english program. < 1329944731 254767 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my afk is broken < 1329944739 132525 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 13:00 < elliott1> what is the difference between $ and . ? < 1329944760 985332 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to pretend that elliott1 = elliott. < 1329944761 702620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AN IMPOSTOR1 < 1329944774 227916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. No. Why must they have my name < 1329944780 43149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, < 1329944794 383871 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I note that there's not a singe "eliot" on Freenode. < 1329944797 733751 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than you, I mean. < 1329944814 682883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when i become world dictator, i can prohibit anyone but you from being named elliott, if you like. ok maybe i'll exempt conal. < 1329944826 814738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thank you, that would be wonderful < 1329944835 54393 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What about elliottt? < 1329944846 916143 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He deserves an exemption. < 1329944852 782315 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition tells me that computation doesn't happen without some sentient being having been responsible for it.. but my intuition isn't so great. < 1329944867 947329 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And elliottcable, I guess. I mean, where would we be without elliottcable? < 1329944887 181197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are there any elliots around? or eliotts? < 1329944896 366003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm so used to our elliott that both those spellings look incredibly wrong < 1329944909 596480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because they are wrong. < 1329944912 716576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: note that some physicists propose that the entire _universe_ is just computation... < 1329944984 518573 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand it to be the case that the universe isn't chaos. i guess computation is constrained by the same lack of chaos < 1329945003 248583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1329945031 328375 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... every fact in the world is like a piece of a crossword puzzle < 1329945044 977165 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it sort of possible to infer one fact from another < 1329945068 851071 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, if each fact was truely arbitrary you couldn't really make progress in finding other facts < 1329945087 258669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: um the word chaos nowadays has a technical mathematical meaning which shows up in many phenomena, like e.g. the weather. < 1329945128 888894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329945129 113479 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have these ideas which i don't know the correct names for < 1329945139 18522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1329945146 949909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been making Truth-machines < 1329945192 201763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1329945197 522322 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably get more serious about the development of fartboob, sofar i just have . and , and [ and ], they're boob, fart, tits and poop, but i'm kind of stuck here < 1329945235 781334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: assign <>+- to the same word < 1329945244 843673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually used is deduced from context < 1329945250 10539 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1329945257 609089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectiveness_of_Mathematics_in_the_Natural_Sciences may be relevant (note i haven't read it myself) < 1329945265 663428 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually an awesome idea < 1329945280 582324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think the term here is "enabler" < 1329945299 989333 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i guess with a cellular automata, on an nth iteration you can make some predictions about the previous iteration.. if its alive now then it must have had either 2 or 3 live neighbors last iteration < 1329945326 572000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey if he actually read such stuff he might start getting deeper ideas < 1329945375 557961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unlike you to be so optimistic :) < 1329945404 355306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1329945406 13918 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you take a game of life you could use it like a crossword puzzle to try and guess what the previous iteration was < 1329945416 507077 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be a kind of sudoku-like game < 1329945431 567303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see, it's much easier just to move on to something else. < 1329945437 664463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay < 1329945494 777610 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all phenomena in the world have this aspect that you can learn about a second thing by studying the first thing < 1329945574 99525 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329945588 477512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329945616 615086 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway computation is predictable enough that they are able to crack codes < 1329945717 597224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would really help to learn before trying to convey < 1329945832 925259 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a Truth-machine in constantinople < 1329945868 146960 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1329945885 64023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm the ==Introduction== section in Brainfuck constants was put there because of the general editing problem. < 1329945915 965466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's awkward to edit that part. < 1329945961 330853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not impossible, there's a general §ion=0 trick but not all people may know about that.) < 1329946006 873299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the editing problem is gone < 1329946009 439515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1329946015 435347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might still be annoying for IE users < 1329946022 35654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1329946037 761929 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one of my axioms in reasoning about the universe is that another concious being can't divide my conciousness in such a way that they partake in it < 1329946053 924845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your table edit, i take it that section name problem is also gone? < 1329946062 565214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what problem it is but I fixed the TOC < 1329946083 195097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway, you could add a link [{{fullurl:Brainfuck constants|action=edit|section=0}} Edit this introduction] or whatever < 1329946092 375064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works fine in my browser; are you sure your IE has problems with it nowadays? < 1329946114 153355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries
< 1329946166 597476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your TOC fix was probably because the new mediawiki does _not_ have that strange section renaming stuff, so you had to change the names there but that means the old problem no longer applies < 1329946178 446738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1329946179 327163 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1329946194 570285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose old MW did weird things with sections with numeric names or something < 1329946195 631759 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about an esolang based on longest common substring. < 1329946200 869461 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the longest common substring is executed. < 1329946211 194517 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that even if the entire state of the universe were identical for each of us... there is no guarantee we would experience the same thing < 1329946232 467741 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres just no way yet to prove it either way < 1329946241 319382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jilffdgjkljfld;jgksdfhg;'sdlk;dfjljk < 1329946262 398733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1329946274 242589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was thinking about applying brute-force to the problem of shortening some of the brainfuck constants. < 1329946277 911055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're hand-written, right? < 1329946308 750540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329946371 609580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shortest programs there already establish an upper-bound on length, two of the instructions are irrelevant, and things like [] can be pruned outright, so it seems like it would be possible to constrain things enough that random generation of programs is productive < 1329946378 749410 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329946430 713726 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be short enough to allow exhaustive search < 1329946434 890509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok the page saved fine < 1329946450 200348 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you have some programs, you get some solutions for the larger constants for free < 1329946461 208030 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329946464 641926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: definitely not short enough < 1329946472 815222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the programs are 17 chars long < 1329946489 932657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :6^17 = a few fucktons; OK, you can disregard anything with unbalanced loops, anything with ][, [] < 1329946499 954237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm sceptical you'd be able to get it down to brute-forcing range < 1329946511 106051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exhaustive brute-forcing < 1329946511 731582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i read the wrapping versions _had_ been exhaustively searched < 1329946517 902712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1329946520 230181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cite for that would be nice :P < 1329946556 311460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :6^17 is only like 2^44 < 1329946562 129963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they _look_ pretty optimal < 1329946564 802661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh is it? < 1329946573 163431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not any good at intuitive sizes of powers :( < 1329946593 718457 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither am I, so I looked it up < 1329946597 129266 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1329946608 55965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was probably mentioned on the talk page < 1329946630 920039 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahaha, the neutrino results were apparently because of a misconnected cable. < 1329946635 386748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like Calamari is the one to ask < 1329946642 712290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-89-98.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1329946647 174864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1329946692 894514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nothing on the talk page < 1329946695 175448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover: seriously? < 1329946713 491168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well "I can generate the non-wrapping versions with my program so you don't have to do them by hand." doesn't imply brute-force to me < 1329946721 610429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: most of the non-wrapping ones follow an obvious pattern, iirc < 1329946725 469477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some multiplication + addition < 1329946753 611137 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1329946763 106964 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1329946787 761422 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are reports of an optical cable in the clock connection being loosly-connected to something else, which would cause the 60ns lead, but I'm not sure whether it was actually in the setup they used or if it's a plausible reason. < 1329946803 969772 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it was the setup they used. < 1329946807 377769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway I suppose it's only worth bothering if I can think of a decent algorithm to generate a random BF program that omits all those "silly" things < 1329946813 496813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without restricting the program structure beyond that < 1329946821 219887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i generated some of them with a haskell program < 1329946843 697970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt haskell would be fast enough for brute-forcing these :) < 1329946855 288212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i mean, some of the non-wrapping ones < 1329946859 419137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1329946890 888133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i made an improvement but never included the results from that < 1329946921 207091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose something like bifro could work for generating them, but would probably be very inefficient < 1329946932 679122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the longest wrapping constant on there? < 1329946955 119763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall < 1329946964 549881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like 18 < 1329946967 508721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329946975 861562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what's 6^18 < 1329946987 190219 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more than 3 < 1329947004 209067 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.01559957 × 10^14 < 1329947016 419337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 (6**18) < 1329947017 211701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 46.52932501298081 < 1329947031 913423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^46 is a lot < 1329947052 151983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2230 years if it takes a ms to evaluate a given program and there's no delay in-between < 1329947084 961654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc restricting to valid, "non-stupid" BF programs should cut down the space massively < 1329947095 172855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it needs to be done "inherently" rather than filtering after-the-fact or there'll be no gain < 1329947119 217786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover: "At the AAAS meeting's discussion, CERN's director of research, Sergio Bertolucci, placed his bet on what the results would be: "I have difficulty to believe it, because nothing in Italy arrives ahead of time."" < 1329947126 707234 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1329947172 580303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no consecutive +- or >< for a start < 1329947208 373604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1329947211 530401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no [], no ][ < 1329947228 923862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we need a state machine that only produces non-stupid BF programs :P < 1329947237 157615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's at most 5^18, really < 1329947242 388699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5^18 < 1329947243 164186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3814697265625 < 1329947243 941442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. + goes to a state without - as an option) < 1329947252 182363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5^18 - 2^32 < 1329947252 991981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3810402298329 < 1329947258 424062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks workable < 1329947270 544266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, the problem is writing a generator for this < 1329947275 303103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and really 17... you don't want the solutions that are just as long as the old ones < 1329947278 904841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5^17 < 1329947279 758422 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 762939453125 < 1329947283 76681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1329947297 165411 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^39 < 1329947297 976959 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 549755813888 < 1329947347 454622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: StateT Int [] is what i used in the haskell program, something similar should be appropriate here too < 1329947397 530222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the int for < 1329947410 842809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :length of what i got so far < 1329947414 896575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1329947422 127841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all we need is a grammar for non-stupid BF programs < 1329947428 783104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would then be trivial to turn into an efficient random generator < 1329947542 69514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you cannot start with a loop < 1329947548 488053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2010/01/28/generating-random-sentences-from-a-context-free-grammar/ < 1329947601 283461 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8981B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1329947648 291163 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i came up with the other day.. (possibly on topic) .. i quickly gave up my line of thought.. http://pastie.org/3435222 < 1329947671 318111 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting with anything else than at least one + is probably pointless < 1329947699 720869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is the question of what cell you start or end in < 1329947785 184158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: erm what about a - < 1329947798 240302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the shortest way to get 255, for example < 1329947808 403954 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are we assuming wrapping? < 1329947816 763539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this exercise, yes, since the programs are shorter < 1329947820 907309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a > appears at the start of many of the wrapping programs < 1329947825 464800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-> seems like a reasonable start set < 1329947831 866765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, the only reasonable one < 1329947889 895631 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, then - is not pointless... but is > not pointless? < 1329947906 194880 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for keeping the first cell at 0? < 1329947910 504964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because you can use it as scratch space later < 1329947914 162115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-finite tape < 1329948013 206641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway it doesn't sound that hard to come up with a reasonable grammar, I think < 1329948075 878031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+>++<+ is also sort of unnecessary < 1329948099 248124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh how long until we get to a^nb^nc^n < 1329948152 769420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think having anything other than those disallowed pairings and matching []'s may be overkill? < 1329948171 188402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also not starting in [) < 1329948252 792487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1329948254 200236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :P0 = '+' P1Add | '-' P1Sub | '>' P1Fwd < 1329948254 387161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1Add = '+' ... | '>' ... | '[' ... ']' < 1329948254 387374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1Sub = '-' ... | '>' ... | '[' ... ']' < 1329948254 387484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1Fwd = '+' ... | '-' ... | '>' ... < 1329948256 201001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an obvious start < 1329948362 883840 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329948477 666088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it clear that we can assume loops are balanced? < 1329948580 539791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm well < 1329948606 933264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it sounds like the kind of thing that is reasonable to assume in hand-written programs, but there might be some really bizarre programs that take advantage of not using balanced loops < 1329948618 413386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kinds of things a human would never write :P < 1329948619 818703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, though < 1329948624 735858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably we want to set a limit on the number of cells used < 1329948646 180017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :do unbalanced loops even work? < 1329948671 678708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: work howso < 1329948676 507463 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, can you do something useful with them? < 1329948751 18790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well the point of applying brute force to the problem is to remove human preconceptions :P < 1329948766 145117 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, go ahead then :) < 1329948847 880669 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once i almost understand the topic < 1329948935 220767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm all the generated constants use 2 cells or less, right? < 1329949033 985262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wrapping, i think so. < 1329949062 860828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that makes testing the candidates really easy, then < 1329949066 799032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as memory/cpu requirements go < 1329949070 605855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1329949094 937115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially memory, you'll only need like 19 bytes < 1329949106 842988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also makes unbalanced loops _very_ unlikely to help, iirc my 3-cell bf musings. < 1329949142 459464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right. but i'm not sure how much you gain from leaving them out, really < 1329949158 498963 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultimately this topic leads into protein folding i think.. first by considering distributed processing.. then considering benefit to humanity.. and existant projects trying to find things via brute force < 1329949179 748252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a benefit of restricting to balanced loops would be that an AST could be built as the program is generated < 1329949191 699201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, like the fancy interpreters that store balanced loops as a few integers < 1329949200 407744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those could be generated directly, skipping the parsing stage < 1329949243 280063 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need to unparse to compare the length though < 1329949264 629229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well the idea is that you'd track that in the generator itself... < 1329949541 640425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw i was just curious as to whether you were planning to write a Truth-machine in itflabtijtslwi from what you said; if not I might have a go at it < 1329949556 583083 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thought occurs to me of a neural network which has been trained by a large set of useful real world bf programs < 1329949652 94057 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more potently if you were to feed such a neural network all the source code on the internet in a given language < 1329949787 946610 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would collect all of humanitys ignorance .. i uhh... yeah disregard < 1329949916 705259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote itidus22 "least likely to accidentally create an evil humanity-destroying ai" on the channel. < 1329949931 999495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, scratch "accidentally" < 1329949960 749412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok i'll take that as a no then < 1329950067 621504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HI < 1329950097 837836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well afaik there are just two people who have written looping /// / itflabtijtslwi programs so far, so more are needed. < 1329950113 276967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nthern being the other one.) < 1329950116 491539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write one, will you golf it? :P < 1329950144 830059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what's the file extension for itflabtijtslwi < 1329950148 346794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.itflabtijtslwi? .gg? < 1329950160 332541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know me, i'm likely to format it with better indentation. < 1329950171 589781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :.itf is what i've used, i think < 1329950256 997101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i am not sure it is possible at all < 1329950265 24257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1329950265 654460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to replace 1 with... wait, no < 1329950269 984681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot you could use delimiters < 1329950278 22237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1329950293 839448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the rot13 program wouldn't have worked either... < 1329950295 67961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GGIGG/<0>/0//<1>/111111.../ < 1329950297 386879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo: ... :P < 1329950317 56335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now the problem is reduced to "write a slashes program that prints 1 forever". ok, that sounds doable < 1329950328 85284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1329950340 264524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what :P < 1329950358 45643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, nothing < 1329950373 137638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was just trying to delude myself :( < 1329950376 123090 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1329950379 776973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to have to generate this, am I? :P < 1329950386 801841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing: remove the >'s < 1329950448 66683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just use a main loop template and replace the innards? < 1329950456 103369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what the main loop templates are < 1329950459 207262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finding out would be cheating < 1329950466 618098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1329950496 697731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never written a (non-extremely-trivial) /// program before. < 1329950535 150244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you don't know the basic _principle_ i invented for making a nice main loop, then you might have some trouble. < 1329950555 39977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it involves dequoting to replicate source < 1329950557 481024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1329950575 764120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(///: succeeding where malbolge failed?) < 1329950581 355055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1329950616 774022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but this is literally just X -> 1X so I refuse to believe it's that difficult < 1329950619 930582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1329950649 610441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the first problem I run into is that I have no idea how to "copy" more than one character. < 1329950691 152006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION metaphorically gets popcorn
< 1329950694 851350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1329950695 318484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1329950699 821144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my basic idea is < 1329950713 476351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/X/1Y/ < 1329950717 526558 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329950726 871316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Y/X/ < 1329950729 211073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1329950745 430263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this on the right track, apart from the part where the <>s will require a complete restructuring? :P < 1329950788 75769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEE THANKS OERJAN < 1329950796 788809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to remind you that Google has initiated a competition for Programmers and Engineers to work together to solve Atlanta's traffic problems. The first meeting is tomorrow when Google and someone from the Atlanta Regional Commission will explain the competition. If you are a serious programmer, this challenge is for you. < 1329950802 161881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if want? < 1329950826 553485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you'll probably be ironically caught in a traffic jam on the way < 1329950834 453043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive I will. < 1329950866 544201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts at 4:30 until 5:45 < 1329950872 137453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably stuck in traffic afterwards. < 1329950872 533330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's say that i don't recognize my own idea in that yet. < 1329950876 73334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some mild traffic before. < 1329950884 722093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlanta has /horrible/ traffic. < 1329950892 606002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok how about this (ignoring newlines) < 1329950901 328315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ME/quoted version of these three lines/ < 1329950903 985896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/X/1Y/ < 1329950910 609485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Y/MEX/ < 1329950912 630421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1329950923 959489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably < 1329950926 975240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://savvyatlanta.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/intersec.jpg <-- look at this < 1329950929 643971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would store those three lines in the pre-quoted form < 1329950936 230737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unescape them at runtime to make them "active" < 1329950945 764197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does that sound right? < 1329950954 546670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what happens when three major interstate highways intersect on the perimeter of Atlanta. < 1329950975 294690 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they intersect in the one point? < 1329950985 98056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1329950989 320827 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like a large hadron collider :d < 1329950993 64627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes, vaguely < 1329951016 75244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :75 cuts through the middle of Georgia going from Florida all the way up to (I think) Maine? < 1329951019 675300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Michigan. < 1329951031 455694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure why you'd want to copy the 1 separately, though < 1329951050 195888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm hm as opposed to what? < 1329951053 969498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :85 kind of goes diagonally through the Atlanta to the northeast < 1329951063 451167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 285 surrounds the perimeter of Atlanta < 1329951069 673161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I think they kind of have to intersect somewhere... < 1329951073 530581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know the history. < 1329951076 167059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just include it directly in the pre-quoted program < 1329951089 767528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ME/1quoted version of these two lines/ < 1329951096 639331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three < 1329951097 176343 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should forget all the bridges and just put in a giant round-a-bout < 1329951097 694244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/X/Y/ < 1329951100 326411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Y/MEX/ < 1329951100 762588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1329951101 96605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1329951109 678148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or oh hm < 1329951123 787322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1329951125 977680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, afa the 1 goes < 1329951128 357043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /X/Y/ < 1329951128 543903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /Y/MEX/ < 1329951132 279782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can't possibly work :( < 1329951148 109098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, easy to repair < 1329951171 897597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ME/1quoted version//XX/Y//Y/MEX\X/XX < 1329951176 968102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to look right? :P < 1329951202 961563 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.terrain.org/articles/2/siegman.htm :-D < 1329951239 288433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the basic structure would be < 1329951241 921877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/] < 1329951242 108700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[//] < 1329951242 108905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[/ME/1quoted/] < 1329951242 109017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[/XX/Y/] < 1329951242 109120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[/Y/MEX\X/] < 1329951243 1638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[XX < 1329951247 936831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1329951252 259788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ whatever machinery is necessary to get the quoting going < 1329951252 839705 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaghetti junction is 285 and 85 < 1329951257 90998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not three highways. < 1329951271 559544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, they think they figured out the neutrino thing, apparently the cable they were using to calibrate the clocks against GPS was faulty < 1329951281 927768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they think that might be responsible for the apparently going too fast < 1329951294 995654 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1329951313 830936 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of embarassing for them < 1329951330 452433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- it's a complicated experiment. < 1329951352 990701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: it would have been embarrassing if they said "we think neutrinos are going ftl" < 1329951354 393181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they never did < 1329951365 223735 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1329951366 679447 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1329951420 33689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also not really embarassing because they heavily downplayed it and immediately double-checked everything. < 1329951453 841719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think you are missing an important idea, which will become apparent once you try to flesh out the details. < 1329951471 133940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i do too. < 1329951475 822997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why don't you tell me what the important idea is :P < 1329951479 302374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?q=atlanta+traffic+spaghetti+junction&hl=en&ll=33.892523,-84.257562&spn=0.009939,0.021136&sll=33.808535,-84.387016&sspn=0.159179,0.338173&gl=us&hq=traffic+spaghetti+junction&hnear=Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia&t=m&z=16 < 1329951483 242339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract art guys < 1329951498 721989 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now just a few jeff goldblum logical leaps from ftl to /// and it will all be resolved < 1329951503 584559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the xkcd traffic engineering prank comic < 1329951509 172537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randall should have just drew this. < 1329951571 945549 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i still say round-a-bout :-> < 1329951580 126515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Americans are afraid of those. < 1329951582 265956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're dangerous! < 1329951583 108272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to copy your quoted program to two different spots, and then handle those diffently to produce both the program to run directly and the next pre-quoted version < 1329951584 67244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike, say < 1329951586 486842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic signals. < 1329951604 164747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you literally drive through an intersection of two roads and hope everyone is paying attention < 1329951620 314351 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't drive.. can't really comment < 1329951632 114195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously they've conducted polls on opinions about roundabouts) < 1329951636 125910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know. they) < 1329951644 10362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, and it is the "copying a block of text that I can't embed to two places" bit I can't figure out :( < 1329951730 522051 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i think the trouble with a roundabout is you can't really arrive at it through engineering < 1329951737 137473 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pin < 1329951737 323965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1329951763 51823 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so heavily based on understanding how a group of humans will react to a roundabout in hindsight < 1329951774 727927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm what do you mean < 1329951794 85606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic signals are like mutexes, whereas roundabouts are more like... wait what is a concurrency abstraction that fits a roundabout? < 1329951798 377416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of queue? < 1329951804 333756 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like if you were to have an intersection generation grammar you could avoid human preconceptions about what is a good design < 1329951834 745120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /X/Copying to two places in \\\/\\\/\\\/ is easy/X X < 1329951837 393695 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying to two places in /// is easy Copying to two places in /// is easy < 1329951866 339673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh I see < 1329951889 798926 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its easy once someone else does the r & d < 1329951896 470146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /X/backslash: \///X/y/X < 1329951897 140 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1329951925 200353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is... incredibly difficult to reason about :P < 1329951930 629230 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like building a 3ghz computer is easy provided you live in 2012 < 1329951959 738139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't say :D < 1329952005 919209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there not some magic trick for a constant infinite loop? :P < 1329952016 116410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of. < 1329952026 470300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want one which only burns CPU < 1329952148 106561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1329952226 485545 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is interesting to see that tcness does not imply any magic tricks < 1329952467 809923 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :ug < 1329952509 940463 :ug!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :phantgarino < 1329952545 809804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is this... concrete evidence that oerjan actually exists?! <-- obviously fake < 1329952573 350602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CONFIRMED IT < 1329952630 820480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that was before i knew the universe was just a figment of my imagination. < 1329952675 799382 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A < 1329952677 162755 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1329952763 418163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up to scotland to decide :D < 1329952792 823835 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, we have much experience with drinking. < 1329953019 996438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus22: I thought it was just based on the idea of allowing traffic flow to contiue from all intersecting roadways without sudden build-ups (which is theoretically shown to reduce overall traffic flow). Also it has the benefit of allowing more than 2 roads to intersect. < 1329953055 851798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it reduces removes an entire category of traffic accidents. < 1329953072 116900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol reduces < 1329953107 667315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersection-related accidents are very frequent. < 1329953113 571008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ais523 for abbreviating the project which shall not be abbreviated -----###
< 1329953136 504554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't, I simply specified a name by which it wasn't referred to < 1329953148 657776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everything said in the channel is a name that doesn't refer to that project < 1329953159 381137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1329953199 318851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you guys hate me if I started using Lisp-style ' to refer to words themselves rather than the concept being referred to by the word? < 1329953231 205694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50 < 1329953238 781200 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :verno pun ful cowl nifeenwe pie slitte tra swinm peirof woodp itn vestion woeda rate poli sat sii dendric dro kobe dispi ubsicifice habi launsell < 1329953239 180460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard of quote marks? < 1329953277 558803 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1329953280 743515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, but I'm not familiar with "heard" < 1329953299 822384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with 'vestion instead? < 1329953309 649803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 'woeda < 1329953322 269855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually "dendric" has shown up multiple times and I think is an actual word. < 1329953335 59027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, well it's almost a word. < 1329953350 108136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind I guess it is. < 1329953375 442081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google suggested "dendritic" but looking up dendric also has people using it. < 1329953403 734043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daedric? < 1329953407 342102 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'dendritic < 1329953410 881846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GTFO < 1329953433 131930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERTAINING TO DENDRITES, DUH. < 1329953435 961761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUUUUUUHHHHH < 1329953440 794216 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes, we get it, you don't like Skyrim. < 1329953444 779213 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please shut up about it,. < 1329953455 546374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1329953467 729140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I won't reply to things brought up by other people. < 1329953485 349063 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap de Bruijn died today. < 1329953491 532195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1329953500 900705 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *on the 17tyh < 1329953503 764515 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*17th < 1329953506 52875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1329953508 663281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awful < 1329953549 246850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Nicolaas Govert de Bruijn 1918-2012 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1329953551 532638 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Thribbian eulogy in here somewhere but I can't quite get it. < 1329953573 621977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least he was 93. That's pretty darn old. < 1329953605 549632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Grigori Perelman comes back one day and is like "I proved P=NP guys. I'm going to disappear again because I hate the mathematics community." < 1329953636 117164 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something with de Bruijn indices and 93 or something? < 1329953646 822012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't think Grigori Perelman is a hermit. < 1329953663 703655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he didn't literally disappear from society. < 1329953669 959157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He had previously turned down a prestigious prize from the European Mathematical Society,[26] allegedly saying that he felt the prize committee was unqualified to assess his work, even positively.[27]" < 1329953684 733777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantgarino: Give me a good reason not to take Perelman as my hero??? < 1329953706 526055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he declared that he wasn't going to be "practicing math" or something to that effect. < 1329953707 676310 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like him; I think it's my general dislike of geniuses. < 1329953709 889857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I think he still is... < 1329953738 31902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It seems he quit professional mathematics but is still working on things privately. < 1329953744 27806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quitting" is a bit of a nebulous concept in that context. < 1329953762 85352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1329953770 720825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Grothendieck has been rather more thorough about it. < 1329953783 27345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he quit being part of the mathematics community, essentially. < 1329953842 119012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it's like to cease practicing mathematics. < 1329953847 122328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be crippling. < 1329953853 338979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't even buy groceries. < 1329953868 719872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that would involve computing sums. < 1329953948 99999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's a difference between "practicing mathematics" and "performing computations" < 1329954076 772466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1329954443 483783 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a religious matter < 1329954450 979200 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho ho ho < 1329954486 33136 :phantgarino!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1329954504 180421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1329954538 458869 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like... the theist (presumably) believes that the athiest is simply unaware of god < 1329954573 310995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329954645 306349 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i wanna do this? .. more likely the theist is compelled to correct the athiest for his blasphemy at not talking about god more often < 1329954696 213686 :Lymia!~moe@70.255.230.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329954696 549450 :Lymia!~moe@70.255.230.4 QUIT :Changing host < 1329954696 736255 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1329954703 123815 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you explain the analogy < 1329954704 492326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1329954720 520859 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring that, the mathematician may see people calculating things and consider that they are doing math and just not aware of it < 1329954721 633687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can answer that one < 1329954722 982050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he can't < 1329954754 746889 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1329954779 744849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the opposite of what i feel < 1329954794 694085 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that they are aware that they are doing math even though they aren't < 1329954844 486371 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a possible conflict when two systems of categorization of everything are in play < 1329954870 513810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;'dldg'guld][tgklogpfh;et4'w < 1329954925 575056 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i agree but i don't see your point < 1329954945 445170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was to itidus22, elliott's point is clear :D < 1329954949 326533 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if i said, your god was merely the servant of my god < 1329955007 788874 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd be wrong because my god is better < 1329955035 998797 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1329955111 817851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math would make an awesome religion < 1329955166 102004 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok uh.. reformulating... it is possible to perform computations without understanding them < 1329955198 486647 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and practicing mathematics seems to be one way of understanding computations among other things