< 1328140833 156767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-80.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328140842 641003 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-65.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1328140865 149172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current counts, FWIW: http://sprunge.us/aaSI < 1328140912 662070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fi:aasi = en:donkey. < 1328140993 687827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be an ass about it < 1328141046 16906 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:perse ≠ en:per se < 1328141057 442598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^.^)aaS < 1328141057 495910 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :((^.^)) < 1328141141 896393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, I didn't really expet your script to be running that long < 1328141145 90979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*expect < 1328141154 28082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, hmm, that's an interesting distribution < 1328141160 79773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I'd expect that from a uniform distribution or not < 1328141183 931876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I compute the chi2 statistic right, you probably shouldn't. < 1328141225 305539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You should expect only three out of each hundred uniform distributions to be that out of whack.) < 1328141348 90952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's still not any sort of proof. But it's a larger difference that you'd expect (in a non-mathematical sense, I haven't calculated any numbers about this) from the bias inherent in rand()%11 with RAND_MAX of 2^31-1 or whatever. < 1328141514 724056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with just 0..32767, you'd expect 0..9 to be just 1.0003 times more common than 10, 11, which is not a difference you'd see here. < 1328141943 201849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328143097 552184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328143141 602561 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328143173 587213 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328143373 376892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle freeHaskell < 1328143373 691790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Ptr freeHaskellFunPtr :: FunPtr a -> IO () < 1328143450 234949 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1328145275 866874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Nagapattinam, Tamil Nadu, India, there is apparently a Sir Issac Newton College of education and (possibly distinct?) Sir Issac Newton Polytechnic College. < 1328145289 637065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by all web evidence those are the official spellings. < 1328145404 900397 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing best < 1328145465 986855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this small personal task i occasionally take, to search wikipedia for that particular misspelling. < 1328145494 421438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you should have seen how common it was before the first time i did so :P) < 1328145525 782532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently issac is a real name and also a commune in france < 1328145541 630718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1328145920 499925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sinc.in/ < 1328146223 392403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't happen to have marvel S.H.I.E.L.D. comics? i need to find out if Issac Newton is actually misspelled in those :P < 1328146250 446322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if i can change the two relevant wikipedia pages < 1328146264 354240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already asked on the Talk: page, mind < 1328146267 182278 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what those are :( < 1328146289 534979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of secret organization superhero comics < 1328146293 160344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1328146365 651030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ancient, which is how Iss?aa?c Newton was a member < 1328146676 959793 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-061-071.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328146728 586923 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-046-163.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328146939 391797 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328146963 216820 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C135.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328147649 401481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat someone made a dupdog thing? < 1328147697 467807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried to. it's not exactly finished. < 1328147723 480706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :misinterpreting the spec doesn't help either < 1328147734 85355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a poorly written spec doesn't help either. < 1328147784 127541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't looked at the source, but immediately recommends not using String as the data/program representation < 1328147813 376962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've thought for a while that dupdog is like made for using ropes < 1328147849 777043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, you could interpret it usefully even if the size of the full expansion blows up exponentially < 1328147881 240805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ropes with a reversal flag, to be precise) < 1328148098 847813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that would be good < 1328148111 968825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence would work well I think. < 1328148152 623022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing is i'm not sure if Data.Sequence has enough sharing. < 1328148165 336016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also needs reversal added. < 1328148200 653604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want duplication to be cheap < 1328148212 749639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes < 1328148231 400870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversal would simply be a matter of changing which view you use, right? < 1328148252 135029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... actually yes < 1328148267 798411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you never concat things with mismatching reversal < 1328148273 189336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe <> is something like O(min(a,b)) < 1328148284 755183 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't too bad. < 1328148299 7782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not ideal. < 1328148328 340917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er shouldn't there be a log in there < 1328148351 172597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1328148354 715098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's >< < 1328148398 306509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to expand on the idea of dupdog but isn't sure which direction to go. < 1328148430 726057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, a rope does that particular part in constant time. but i guess the logarithm then comes back when looking at the end instead. < 1328148440 345331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1328148462 83643 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328148531 288232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think reversal is a useful operation < 1328148538 875215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but duplication isn't, aside from looping infinitely < 1328148545 463086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a really clumsy manner. < 1328148586 969143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure. note that duplication and then running a few commands means the two parts are no longer equal. < 1328148600 940553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's true. < 1328148700 338526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one parametric command would be of value. < 1328148715 257745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps to control the transliteration < 1328148804 2987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest one I can think of would be sab, which substitutes every a to b < 1328148812 80325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would consume the entire 3-character command < 1328148876 566505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this would make dupdog quite a bit more powerful, though I'm not sure how to quantify how. < 1328148927 448477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1328148930 151836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not dupdog anymore < 1328148934 51824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because obviously the semantics are different < 1328148958 865770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea of advancing forward in a string, with each character modifying the source code in some simple way, remains. < 1328151530 772079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Goof night < 1328152717 653455 :ion_!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1328152937 373300 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Quit: switching to weechat for now < 1328152937 474474 :ion_!ion@heh.fi NICK :ion < 1328153127 525128 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-84.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328153138 370685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-80.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1328153968 814372 :Baco_!~Baco@2a01:e35:139c:6bc0:1a3d:a2ff:fe55:dbd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328153988 951018 :Baco_!~Baco@2a01:e35:139c:6bc0:1a3d:a2ff:fe55:dbd0 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1328155399 986244 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your professor might be laughably archaic if: they demand a hardcopy submission of code < 1328155696 726852 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti has been i[dated < 1328155698 688838 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i[date < 1328155699 516931 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1328155701 449096 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :updatd < 1328156524 108613 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328156524 415170 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1328156524 468036 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1328163557 334880 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328163574 787835 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho man < 1328163646 373998 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language with: +, -, ! (C style logical not), non-deterministic < 1328163654 243320 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is turing complete I think < 1328163704 469564 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with non-deterministic = in the "prolog" kind of way < 1328163745 229189 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :program flow and arrays can be hacked from the non-deterministic logic < 1328164061 723255 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it? < 1328164089 387905 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I dunno how to write an interpreter < 1328164096 631334 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1328164098 216295 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki? < 1328164100 460174 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more precisely I dunno how to garbage collect it < 1328164113 609917 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it the prolog way? < 1328164127 599946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1328164130 188404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dont < 1328164134 75387 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia : essentially it's a numeric version of this: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fatmouse < 1328164139 988347 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc is an implementation detail < 1328164147 888183 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you never free anything < 1328164152 744133 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language will work < 1328164154 904631 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory < 1328164160 465705 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia : I'm exploring "grow only" languages < 1328164170 847767 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and esoteric languages are all about working in theory < 1328164177 345394 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie languages where you can't change the value of a variable once it's defined < 1328164236 100254 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1328164249 367079 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to do something like interpret a brainfuck program, you create a new copy of the BF program state on each cycle < 1328164271 542236 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's turing complete < 1328164308 227397 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I want to do an interpreter, I'd like to be able to execute an infinite number of loops in finite memory at least < 1328164320 753491 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means I have to figure out how to garbage collect it < 1328164349 688433 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem: in a normal language, your variables eventually get dereferenced < 1328164357 685624 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can garbage collect them < 1328164390 821787 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328164407 204055 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a full hard drive cause kernel panics? < 1328164408 570539 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in this case, how do you know a given variable can't generate any new values and can thus be collected? < 1328164544 421345 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcing in fatmouse is easy: no data needs to ever be collected except the output buffer < 1328164595 936660 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, every time a variable is consumed, all conditions in the program are checked. those that are satisfied are deleted. < 1328164598 591593 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: then it's impossible to interpret it without leaking memory like crazy < 1328164609 941109 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a variable has no conditions, it is deleted. < 1328164624 108700 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consumed < 1328164657 819526 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328164806 415220 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterative conditionals just require you to keep around a short list of ranges that have been consumed. badly behaved programs could misuse this, but...garbage collection never works on badly behaved programs anyway < 1328164853 42277 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1328164992 502032 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1328165003 46609 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "array.x.x array.x-1.x-1" example might cause problems in a naive algorithm, but i can think of a way to handle such things efficiently < 1328165234 172194 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can see how it's possible < 1328165238 501400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a particularly nasty one might be "a.x.y a.x-1.y-1;a.x.y a.x-2.y;a.x.y a.x.y-2;a.1.1" < 1328165246 531321 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a checkerboard pattern < 1328165290 6639 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's essentially a memory leak < 1328165299 352711 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an infinite loop < 1328165302 340865 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1328165335 459204 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in fatmouse if the same variable is listed twice with different conditionals? < 1328165351 509960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as above) < 1328165410 871352 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing it's a disjunction over the conditional sets < 1328165422 469492 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if < 1328165431 79043 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b a < 1328165432 608720 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b c < 1328165448 462395 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if either a or c get defined, b gets defined too < 1328165455 273682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep makes sense < 1328165549 663089 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a loop that stops looks like "a.x a.x-1 x<10;a.1"? < 1328165586 322996 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :with, uh, suitable parens where needed? < 1328165698 31298 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1328165929 555360 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1328165937 274337 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1328167133 905659 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1328168595 376017 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1328171553 858935 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1328173241 431352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328174882 112913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that makes no sense < 1328174885 30285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ssh -X to a computer < 1328174889 630378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to open something in Firefox on it < 1328174894 907825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it opens on my local Firefox install instead < 1328174923 319819 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is evil that way. < 1328174938 836210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more nonsensical than evil < 1328174992 488680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it works the other way too < 1328175001 765249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I close Firefox locally and open the remote Firefox < 1328175011 422436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then trying to open Firefox locally just opens a new window on the remote Firefox < 1328175044 801845 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1328175064 117867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the Firefox process, when started, looks for existing Firefox /windows/ < 1328175070 972841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it finds them, signals them to do what it was trying to do < 1328175079 722424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than looking for existing Firefox /processes/, which would make more sense < 1328175123 672660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the first time I realised that sshing into the computer lab downstairs to print something made more sense than physically going there < 1328175138 41157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm annoyed that I can't browse the web meanwhile < 1328175150 644322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that there was a workaround, though. (I've used a remote Firefox sometimes to access our 'intranetty' things, and I don't recall having to close the local Firefox.) < 1328175171 200260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : -no-remote Open new instance, not a new window in running instance. < 1328175173 979128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that one. < 1328175234 395955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible to run two separate Firefoxes using the same profile even with that, but it should be okay to run something on a remote computer, since presumably it's not using the same profile. < 1328175252 685093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it is, e.g. over NFS, I think it might not be the best of ideas.) < 1328175379 279704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also latest counts for 6797 samples: http://sprunge.us/GjLD -- and the chi2 score is 60, which corresponds to virtual certainty of rejecting the "uniform distribution" hypothesis (p=10^-9 or so). < 1328175385 551993 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1328175389 822545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange sort of bias, though. < 1328175501 408996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it isn't in this case < 1328175517 89462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for that distribution, I'm wondering if it's intended to be uniform but the randomizer is broken < 1328175766 310304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds possible, though I wonder how it is broken, and if it's time-seeded whether my ten-second polling interval has something to do with it. < 1328176039 290251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe after the 10k-sample run has finished I should make a forum post. They have forums, right? Though maybe it's a 'faux pas' to speak of the About page without pretending not to notice the randomness. < 1328176465 573829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mezzacotta has forums, I think they apply to everything hosted there < 1328176584 475757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a "Comments on a Postcard"... uh, group? topic? area? region? forum? shindig? hunting ground? ...in there. < 1328176712 641913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I've already download 40 megabytes' worth of data, I'm not entirely sure I want to admit that. < 1328176758 492237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The page sizes range from 2912 to 4360 bytes.) < 1328177475 41374 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1328177650 104799 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328179468 1815 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328179510 912601 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1328181484 764499 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328181663 464386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in case, also fed the numbers to MATLAB's χ2-goodness-of-fit test, and it agrees on the unlikeliness: http://sprunge.us/SSQL < 1328181852 694087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, http://sprunge.us/EjLY -- misread the documentation for 'nparams'. < 1328181897 85748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I *was* wondering about the p = NaN bit, thought it'd underflow to 0 instead, and that it wouldn't be *that* small quite yet. < 1328182207 87104 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328182319 715199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seemed a bit weird to me too < 1328182326 497192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NaN means "no probability", rather than "no chance" :) < 1328182599 206786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I disregard the highest-numbered count, I get p=0.0596, which isn't yet quite unlikely enough. < 1328182678 365861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1328184412 624292 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood < 1328184537 456665 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1328187067 274507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1328188953 465113 :jix_!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328188999 938365 :jix_!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1328189371 623712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328189688 973342 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B769.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328190480 834151 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328190486 320057 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.137 QUIT :Changing host < 1328190486 373034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328191769 78580 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-046-163.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328191781 509609 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-040.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328191871 203084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328192721 508950 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-040.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328192852 716118 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-040.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328193122 856789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328193196 640603 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-035-022.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328193311 490408 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY did my HD just go read-only? < 1328193335 259981 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-040.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1328193468 625643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remount-as-read-only is one common response to errors. < 1328193491 263703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "errors=remount-ro" mount option. < 1328193528 851852 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: dmesg | tail < 1328193573 724341 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry in advance for incoming flod < 1328193576 343907 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo@sgeo-Satellite-A105:~$ dmesg | tail < 1328193576 397063 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216422] ecryptfs_write_inode_size_to_header: Error writing file size to header; rc = [-30] < 1328193576 397259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216429] Error writing inode size to metadata; rc = [-30] < 1328193576 397370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216612] ecryptfs_write_inode_size_to_header: Error writing file size to header; rc = [-30] < 1328193576 397476 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216619] Error writing inode size to metadata; rc = [-30] < 1328193576 806840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216633] ecryptfs_write_inode_size_to_header: Error writing file size to header; rc = [-30] < 1328193578 810717 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28984.216640] Error writing inode size to metadata; rc = [-30] < 1328193580 761752 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28991.831985] ecryptfs_write_inode_size_to_header: Error writing file size to header; rc = [-30] < 1328193582 864014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28991.831996] Error writing inode size to metadata; rc = [-30] < 1328193584 813420 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28991.832082] ecryptfs_write_inode_size_to_header: Error writing file size to header; rc = [-30] < 1328193586 725418 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[28991.832089] Error writing inode size to metadata; rc = [-30] < 1328193601 169746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've just said "repeats N times". < 1328193616 459787 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it isn't remounted RO, but .. something else? < 1328193616 963615 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, the last 10 lines weren’t enough, you’ll need to look at more of it. dmesg | less and scroll around. What happened before those errors? < 1328193645 161457 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[29068.269545] ecryptfs_encrypt_page: Error attempting to write lower page; rc = < 1328193645 280030 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-30] < 1328193645 332975 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[29068.269553] ecryptfs_writepage: Error encrypting page (upper index [0x0000000 < 1328193645 333142 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :000001cd3]) < 1328193659 511981 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That occurs a bunch of times < 1328193666 596133 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's the earlier errors I pasted before then < 1328193690 302645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's very confused right now. The first error is often the most relevant. < 1328193698 870363 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything about problems with the actual device (that might be a hardware issue) or just ecryptfs problems (that, if alone, looks like a software bug)? < 1328193700 854006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if it comes from some lower level than ecryptfs. < 1328193713 947953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hit the top of dmesg < 1328193717 447486 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More encryptfs stuff < 1328193728 65703 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1328193735 221276 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I confused PageUp and PageDown < 1328193740 216481 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be a symptom of bad RAM or other faulty hardware, too, but probably not e.g. a broken HDD. < 1328193761 639343 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :encryptfs errors fill dmesg < 1328193783 844062 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a similar issue last night too. I needed to restart in recovery, let that take place, then booted up < 1328193806 696768 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :less /var/log/syslog, something useful might have managed to go into it. < 1328193844 931814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DY ERR } < 1328193845 86504 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 2 01:59:33 sgeo-Satellite-A105 kernel: [ 1458.247678] ata1.00: error: { ICRC ABRT } < 1328193853 401772 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 2 01:59:33 sgeo-Satellite-A105 kernel: [ 1458.247639] ata1.00: failed command: WRITE DMA < 1328193867 225677 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just posting interesting looking ones. And the last one I posted was before the first) < 1328193890 98485 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 2 01:59:33 sgeo-Satellite-A105 kernel: [ 1457.858737] ata1.00: exception Em < 1328193890 218154 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x6 < 1328193903 759423 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 2 01:59:33 sgeo-Satellite-A105 kernel: [ 1457.489310] res 51/84:18 < 1328193903 876593 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::a8:01:c5/84:01:06:00:00/e6 Emask 0x30 (host bus error) < 1328193919 59709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole bunch of these: < 1328193920 894721 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 2 01:59:32 sgeo-Satellite-A105 kernel: [ 1457.473124] Buffer I/O error on d < 1328193921 50471 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evice sda1, logical block 13147229 < 1328193944 257381 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that does look like a broken HDD. < 1328193955 462147 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ecryptfs problem is just a symptom of it. < 1328193961 869890 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1328193964 40393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the SATA port, that can be flaky too. < 1328193986 638655 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My HD is a bit loose in the thing, is there a nice way to tell if it just sort of lost connection or if there's damage? < 1328194007 381577 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. But every HDD breaks sooner or later, SATA controllers are quite a bit less likely to just break by themselves. < 1328194022 552169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run some sort of a 'badblocks' scan over it. If it's just intermittently flaky, it shouldn't find errors consistently at the same location. < 1328194024 7587 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connect it to another computer. < 1328194087 873985 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I try some sort of SMART thing? < 1328194091 367850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deleteBy (const (== 3)) undefined [1,2,3,4,5,3,6,7] < 1328194092 501190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,4,5,3,6,7] < 1328194118 357872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know if I have any such thing already installed < 1328194131 72098 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartctl -a /dev/sda | less < 1328194157 720847 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'smartctl' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1328194157 845210 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install smartmontools < 1328194176 886570 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to get ready to head for school < 1328194181 654495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: didn't you have a broken HD before (and got everyone annoyed by not following their salvaging advice...) < 1328194190 598588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Did you hear about my latest CHI^2 SCORES. < 1328194192 410645 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :udisks --dump | less < 1328194194 5759 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this is a different HD < 1328194224 120021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IT'S JUST FATE CHECKING IF YOU'VE LEARNED FROM THE PREVIOUS EPISODE, HTH < 1328194243 725512 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn’t seem he’s losing any data. He hasn’t mentioned a lack of backups, which probably would be on the top of one’s mind if there are HDD problems *and* no backups. :-) < 1328194248 543659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles sadistically < 1328194257 551480 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"backups"? < 1328194259 144157 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1328194275 633861 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't have much of anything important on here. I think. < 1328194280 963615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i saw something about almost certainly not uniform < 1328194293 461373 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except my logs < 1328194296 694784 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love my logs < 1328194310 262450 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So… udisks --dump | less < 1328194335 66611 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The status column is filled with good and n/a < 1328194349 556060 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1328194352 488985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's like p=10^-11 likely get a this nonuniform sample if it actually were uniform. < 1328194382 966616 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/7eaa3bfslg7sdekiroftg < 1328194429 721862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ideally with enough data you should get the real fractions of probabilities; if they are close to simple rationals that should give a hint... < 1328194442 981713 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d connect the disk to another computer and see what happens. < 1328194451 468175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*approximations to < 1328194466 822664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"udma-crc-error-count" *sounds* like it might be an issue somewhere between the processor and the disk. < 1328194513 91361 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1328194527 841281 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could that be caused by a loose connection? < 1328194533 361668 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could. < 1328194555 243119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if there are two tiers, one with probability p and one with probability q, as you'd expect if it was (x % 11) applied to something that _is_ uniform in some integer interval < 1328194560 357925 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really get a mount for this thing < 1328194573 550755 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the meantime, I should probably resist the temptation to take it off the table < 1328194601 939493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to restart < 1328194607 461793 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try fixing it with XML. < 1328194612 326609 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, though normally you'd expect that x to be uniform in [0, 2^31-1] or something, in which case the difference from that would be quite small indeed. < 1328194618 790900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1328194633 387000 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any bets whether it’ll boot? :-P < 1328194675 401993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Normalized" counts -- as in, count/expected, which would give [1 1 ... 1], are: 1.28168 1.09694 1.02814 0.97209 0.96826 0.96699 0.95807 0.94915 0.93896 0.93514 0.90456. < 1328194702 327966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Last time I tried after ignoring the largest one, the rest weren't quite yet abnormal enough to reject the null hypothesis. < 1328194839 219751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently MATLAB's saying p=0.01 even for the "other ten" ones. < 1328194889 993530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you you _shouldn't_ normally be getting 0.05 from something that is uniform, even if that's not sufficient for discarding a scientific null hypothesis < 1328194928 476499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hm < 1328194934 687848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you should be getting 0.05 from about every 20th experiment, I suppose. < 1328194961 158609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1328194970 827721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't quite the normal case, is it < 1328195039 546834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for there to be only a largest one that has higher probability, the interval before x%11 should have length 11*y+1 < 1328195069 904664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 1 + 1/y is the excess in probability < 1328195082 165840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and for 1.3 y is kinda small. < 1328195135 334453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = 3 or 4, giving 34 or 45, which are strange numbers to choose < 1328195165 196606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for the interval of 16, implying two iterations of the Befunge '?'. < 1328195196 907494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 would have been perfect if there was precisely one item _less_ likely than the rest < 1328195201 122988 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328195205 683361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, there are all those stories about patterns in bad RNGs. < 1328195223 667001 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recovery thing worked last night... < 1328195233 977756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it could be he's generating it from a time stamp, as well. < 1328195274 406022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main mezzacotta comic uses a date (although not the _present_ date) < 1328195285 37530 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was just being slow < 1328195291 822782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeding from the current second is rather popular too. < 1328195323 471808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if my ten-second sampling interval is relevant. Or actually it's "fetch, delay of at least 10 seconds, fetch, delay ...", so the rate is in fact something close to 11 seconds. < 1328195347 461124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not close to 11, but over 10, anyway. < 1328195372 367320 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the present date? < 1328195384 883515 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for the present day's comic? < 1328195542 115095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's always just the date you specify, which for the present day's comic happens to coincide with the present date. < 1328195705 684053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, here's the counts graphically: http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/mezza.png -- make of that what you will. But it doesn't quite look two-tiered. < 1328195878 411232 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328195882 595871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1328195892 541611 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to rest this laptop on my lap for a while < 1328195985 637495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-39.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328196018 417307 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-84.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1328196033 442172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you remove both the two largest items, what then? < 1328196137 936077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9*6 + 7 + 8 < 1328196137 989089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares sternly at lambdabot  < 1328196138 948759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 69 < 1328196195 421804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmm wouldn't choose that number, would he. < 1328196307 262082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that number about? < 1328196333 584972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1328196351 919975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently fizzie wouldn't either. < 1328196375 494073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, I know the result, I was just wondering about the 9*6+7+8 briefly. < 1328196414 958094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was guessing what if the two top numbers are special < 1328196435 84944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that seemed like a close approximation < 1328196456 362784 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328196488 593534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right. Though I'm not sure if my current results match that terribly well. Though the smaller the differences, the harder it is to say. < 1328196545 383187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistically there should be _some_ outliers < 1328196762 831961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :p-values for selecting the sets 1..11, 2..11, 3..11, 4..11 and 4..10, respectively: 7*10^-5, 0.0129, 0.4662, 0.8690, 0.9666. < 1328196781 148090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, indeed, after discarding the top two it's not distinguishable from uniform. < 1328196805 535743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the 4..10 set is quite a lot more uniform-ish that you'd expect.) < 1328196817 835965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1328196869 726068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done 8861 samples now, so it'll be finished this evening. < 1328196885 130057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three more hours or so. < 1328197136 686258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, posthumous s/-5/-15/ too. < 1328197662 118822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1328197687 180063 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1328198077 78171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo < 1328198077 351795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1328198605 327990 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-035-022.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328199005 213322 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328199414 628847 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1328199752 972711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1328199753 539802 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's a defined format for data:// is reasonable. i concede that there may be < 1328201963 381071 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1328202103 780339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328202136 376520 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328202835 570335 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foop < 1328202896 332462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is that the opposite of a sudden vanish? < 1328202996 137990 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed! < 1328204997 506011 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328205118 526744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328205172 814245 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1328205668 697316 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328205706 172021 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1328205706 374171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1328205713 313366 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear < 1328205713 559890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1328205735 39003 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about Haskell Obfuscation < 1328205742 841436 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t null . guard < 1328205743 724234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool -> Bool < 1328205753 654273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> null $ guard True < 1328205754 615729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1328205757 340700 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> null $ guard False < 1328205758 330512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1328205771 486501 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less clear version of "not" < 1328205823 782240 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1328205877 913785 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need that < 1328205918 417854 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, point-free style seems to have a lot of point symbols < 1328205956 13743 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y z -> y x (z x) < 1328205956 287254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (flip . ((.) .) . flip id) (flip id) < 1328205962 39051 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 in that < 1328205990 388210 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't have a decent IRC client on this computer < 1328206121 447785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just dots; and note that it's full of nice round ()s instead of pointy ->s. Not that it's relevant, but still. < 1328206488 398782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1328208878 530379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-159-39.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328208895 473587 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-247.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328209252 873057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Final counts: http://sprunge.us/CejV < 1328209253 300670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1328210118 563643 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-24.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328210691 512901 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328211577 753758 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-247.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328211632 92877 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-206.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328213051 563081 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328213663 941444 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328213664 45470 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1328213664 98729 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1328214108 320418 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1328214594 228801 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. it occurs to me that ideas of generalizations only hold true alongside things like platonic ideals < 1328214616 754678 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B1311CD.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328214706 808222 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that note it has never been true i think that humans need anything more than a simple roof over their heads, a bit of food, clean water, exercize, and plenty of medicine in order to achieve maximum potential lifespan < 1328214740 274239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why on that note? well i mean humans do not need plato for anything but medicine < 1328214946 104111 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans need those things to survive; to live, though? < 1328215047 359451 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i dont think plato is vital for medicine but the idea of looking at things as platonic solids is fairly necessary probably for the weird science stuff which enables the creation of medicine i am guessing < 1328215067 122693 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: oh yeah.. hmm you're right < 1328215155 880139 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: so if someone is walking down the street with a gun i couldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just going to hunt some boars... but i would be very tempted to give him that benefit of the doubt < 1328215241 215952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, do you live in an area where boars exist and can be hunted legally? < 1328215334 125473 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still look at him very carefully and make careful note of his appearance < 1328215516 805633 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1328216256 447877 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328216262 210681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1328216408 313049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :{M[m(_o)O!"elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY."(_o)o.?]} < 1328216486 809553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heaps of spam < 1328216487 282055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1328216498 971093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know < 1328216530 705342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's going this fast I prefer to take care of it in batches, it's faster < 1328216552 935639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[LifeScript]] is nonspam, right? < 1328216699 158814 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1328216719 485078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd say :P < 1328216750 129285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, unusually much non-spam today, too < 1328216752 263587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly not as much as the spam < 1328216765 383860 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a standard way of repeatedly deleting values from a list comprehension without adding a constraint for every value deleted? < 1328216784 547079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: err, I fear I'm missing context < 1328216799 18631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language, for a start < 1328216812 792054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, I understand the individual words, and phrases like "list comprehension" < 1328216818 20838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't fit them together into a sentence < 1328216821 557488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be most helpful if it's haskell, probably < 1328216856 715993 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm speaking purely abstractly < 1328216864 576898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [x | x <- [1..], not (x `mod` 3 == 0)] < 1328216865 602284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,4,5,7,8,10,11,13,14,16,17,19,20,22,23,25,26,28,29,31,32,34,35,37,38,40... < 1328216870 814624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this? < 1328216871 476632 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering if *any* language has a way of doing it < 1328216917 978393 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but what if i wanted to just eliminate the values returned by my random number generator, but didn't want the comprehension description to grow linearly with number of values eliminated? < 1328216969 131531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you first zip [1..] and use that? < 1328217009 910479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: isn't that effectively asking "how do I get a list of all integers /not/ in a given lazy list"? < 1328217013 618847 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1328217016 808509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's mathematically possible < 1328217024 285981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure "comprehension description" is the term you really want to use, here < 1328217076 167691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, unless the list of things to remove is either finite or predictably ordered, you may _never_ be able to conclude that a value is in the final list < 1328217106 409818 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example: let's say i have a 100x100 binary matrix, and i set the bits on the main diagonal. a dense matrix requires 10000 bits to represent this. a (standard) sparse matrix requires 1400 bits. but it could be done with a single expression like "set if x=y". is there a well-known algorithm that heuristically encodes things this way? < 1328217126 954710 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know compression in general is AI-hard, but i thought maybe there might be an incomplete standard solution < 1328217136 996829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] \\ [2, 4 .. 10] < 1328217137 50467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1328217137 104616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1328217137 572421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1328217137 986432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,5,7,9,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,3... < 1328217165 157789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\ is list difference? < 1328217168 782332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1328217180 291671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it require a consistent sort order between the lists? < 1328217184 115774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't return anything unless the second argument is finite < 1328217187 115689 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can assume the number of excluded values is "n" < 1328217192 69980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, requires finite second list < 1328217192 978096 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finite value < 1328217209 939750 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the way you did it there < 1328217212 64555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think it only removes one instance if there are duplicates < 1328217267 351517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which on the positive side means it should have no overhead for the remainder of the list after all the subtracted elements have been found < 1328217316 573982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: for your "another example", haskell does not remove from you the obligation to choose efficient data structures for representing things. < 1328217324 294644 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i start with a lazy list like that, and i want to write a function delete_with_minimal_overhead(list,value)? < 1328217348 254452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> delete 5 [1..] < 1328217349 350815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,2... < 1328217349 743647 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would an efficient data structure for that be? < 1328217393 766683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you've already said "if i start with a lazy list", which sort of ties your hands a bit < 1328217427 281030 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, i start calling it with (list,2),(list,4),(list,6),(list,8). It would be nice if it figured out that a bunch of even numbers had been deleted, and compressed {2,4,6,8,10,12,..} to "even numbers in this range" < 1328217480 363521 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean a particular representation of a list comprehension. i mean "whatever data structure that works like one but also does this" < 1328217545 947009 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it just hasn't been done. i have to go :( < 1328217562 483417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well haskell doesn't do it, anyhow. < 1328217582 440896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-56.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328217587 269878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-206.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328217716 513165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok LifeScript isn't spam, but i'm not convinced it isn't trolling :D < 1328217778 286136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1328217806 354383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok scratch some of that about unusually much non-spam, some of the edits that looked like they could be genuine were spams anyhow < 1328218768 330651 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etymology is sometimes interesting < 1328218776 311293 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland means "land of the Irish" < 1328218992 274638 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1328219004 327769 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so..."scots-irish" means "irish irish"? < 1328219719 519593 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish < 1328219739 901976 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Romans called the Irish "Scotii" < 1328219753 490683 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was then used to mean Gaelic < 1328219788 169024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as Gaels (?) from Ireland went to Scotland (or "Caledonia" or "Pictland"), some stuff happened, and we're in a mess now < 1328219875 184233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can only assume the picts got a raw deal. < 1328219896 391730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-111.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodnight < 1328219924 68110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is a matter of which Ngevd does not wish to speak. < 1328220078 945026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picts or didn't happen, like they say. < 1328220405 112619 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, can't decide whether to make that biased-randomness post since it'd mean having to admit to wasting 34.65 MiB's worth of bandwidth. < 1328220432 131388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also incidentally it's the "Wow! signal" one that appears "too" often. Coincidence? < 1328220443 613369 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1328220477 386683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make a donation to the Jane Goodall Institute mentioning mezzacotta first. < 1328220512 125461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that, it's where they ask people to donate instead of to them. < 1328220553 548232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION so reasonable suggestions < 1328220990 568901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Scott Aaronson is a betting guy < 1328221005 338105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/perpetual-motion-of-the-21st-century/#comment-17911 < 1328221028 749562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :QC = quantum computing < 1328221193 116005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he did a similar bet against the P!=NP proof that was floating around a year and a half ago) < 1328221519 614414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, my window with top -d 30 in it has died < 1328221582 897788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the first disconnect since i started putting that up. thus fails my theory that the problem had either stopped permanently, or that the windows somehow kept each other alive. < 1328221638 448220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wait < 1328221659 224626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :false alarm. it had just died last time i turned off my computer XD < 1328221760 706118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually hibernates when possible < 1328223257 698893 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328223752 149813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map unwords $ (`replicateM` ["player", "hater"]) =<< [1..] < 1328223753 19824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["player","hater","player player","player hater","hater player","hater hate... < 1328223785 993654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1328224360 58857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328224948 517073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1328225013 295933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are you a player hater hater or a hater player hater or a hater player player? < 1328225023 405207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a hater hater hater < 1328225053 492447 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1328225054 538859 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :know??? < 1328225079 473724 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328225091 403111 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1328225156 25812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cool < 1328225273 319397 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B769.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328225478 786437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328226308 964441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328226505 481194 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B1311CD.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758] < 1328226693 216883 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-049-007.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328226698 415994 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328226840 115846 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-225.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328226855 835424 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-56.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328226916 358121 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328227151 454645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving