around it! And then, it does have the URL to download the raw copy, so you can use that to download .lhs file.
< 1326507487 834310 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boy without a cerebellum baffles doctors" - I wonder if this is a documentary about guido
< 1326507498 717811 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how  would you make worse a = sum (range(0,n)) ?
< 1326507514 369698 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst complexity class
< 1326507522 396192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems as though if I look away from skype for too long it will be frozen when I come back.
< 1326507563 629699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: sum(x) = sleep()
< 1326507572 76289 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326507584 219964 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not valid
< 1326507587 470536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: sum(x) = sum(x)
< 1326507598 141540 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same complexity
< 1326507609 693672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the question then
< 1326507629 757862 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of sum(range...) you could convert it to single algebra formula
< 1326507632 587816 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well O(n)
< 1326507637 605868 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh yes, it seems 164.67.235.79 broke it
< 1326507667 279550 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 that would not change complexity
< 1326507723 390772 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write   n*(n+1)/2   instead
< 1326507763 804318 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 wrong, that is O(1)
< 1326507773 736539 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is O(1)
< 1326507792 382999 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean worst complexity
< 1326507815 734559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to change it to worst complexity.
< 1326507827 464715 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither i
< 1326507832 364626 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious
< 1326507851 44433 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can optimize but not worsenize
< 1326507872 589420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the "worst complexity"?
< 1326507882 329608 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: you can easily worsenize. see bogosort for an example in sorting
< 1326507913 162644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say there's no end to the amount of useless operations you can perform.
< 1326507927 912289 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst complexity is... at least O(n^2)
< 1326507928 690433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you count it, O(infnity) is the "worst possible case"
< 1326507939 745751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though big O notation is usually defined over reals.
< 1326507949 459296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to write a program in the "most pessimum" if necessary, such as what someone did when writing a program with rotating memory, they moved the instructions around to slow it down, instead of using delay loops.
< 1326507980 790906 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean complexity class, not number of operations
< 1326507991 529461 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a worse way to do that sum: replace the "a=" with "point a to a location in memory that already has the right value. if it does not exist, write random bits memory and repeat"
< 1326508003 564683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm was that the Mel story?
< 1326508014 380049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 mel
< 1326508035 637842 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia wrong
< 1326508053 88352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper is never satisfied.
< 1326508065 500687 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: you are wrong
< 1326508072 572666 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am over satisfied
< 1326508081 85340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: the problem here is that it takes a sentient being to determine whether the worsening is allowed or not.
< 1326508088 736643 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is still o n
< 1326508099 293474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no?
< 1326508134 212601 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than x*N OPERATIONS?
< 1326508141 639481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case of quintopia's algorithm is O(infinity)  aka it continues to the end of time.
< 1326508159 773807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: it is not O(n). it is expected to take O(n*x*1/p)
< 1326508167 356282 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not an alforithm, kallinsti
< 1326508183 497263 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where x is the size of memory and p is the probability of the right number occurring in it
< 1326508197 498118 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1326508198 689385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_algorithm
< 1326508262 957770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_complexity#Computational_complexity
< 1326508266 542233 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deterministic?
< 1326508280 998992 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead?
< 1326508294 358876 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible?
< 1326508304 754898 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326508316 2339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it resizes the range by repeating each element of the range N times where N is the length of the list 
< 1326508319 584990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it calculates the sum of that
< 1326508325 323002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then divides that by N
< 1326508325 854803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1326508328 668321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORSER
< 1326508350 383400 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326508357 875651 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1326508380 673868 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "count to A(n) every time you increment the counter that will eventually contain your answer"
< 1326508396 839741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :much worse complexity :D
< 1326508438 600081 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n
< 1326508443 895666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to make it _technically_ at least O(enormous(n)).  Just do enormous(i) useless operations between normal step i and i+1.
< 1326508457 322637 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1326508491 572017 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n is the worst i think... count until the correct result
< 1326508505 216937 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326508510 705844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.O
< 1326508521 390975 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326508524 107078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
< 1326508544 372833 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely
< 1326508551 770630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could just be really dumb.
< 1326508553 199266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1326508584 532336 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a though experiment
< 1326508609 219345 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326508643 567572 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326508680 807033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah paypals fees suck.
< 1326508700 863314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should try bitcoin.

< 1326509481 4958 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 QUIT :Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org
< 1326510440 907537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about cosbycoin
< 1326510531 788575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you insist on using bills...
< 1326510617 724803 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326510655 341720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ..........................
< 1326510665 569161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :astounding
< 1326510681 243664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw
< 1326510691 945454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a different idea the kind of payment system to use; you buy the card with the account number and SSH key, split the account if necessary, and then give them the code. So it would be decentralized system. And not necessarily require the use of a computer.
< 1326510845 997374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone heard about the Jan. 18 "blackout"?
< 1326510862 919346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What does that mean?
< 1326510900 621885 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is going to go offline on Jan 18 to protest SOPA
< 1326510906 253642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Mozilla
< 1326510909 235189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly others.
< 1326510911 314555 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wikipedia might too, or at least display a banner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action
< 1326510934 690135 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if facebook and google do it, that might be something
< 1326510963 128182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I would have to use bing.
< 1326510967 34932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or duckduckgo
< 1326510968 702161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yahoo
< 1326510971 199427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
< 1326510997 319475 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Freenode go offline too?
< 1326511010 863245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm aware of.
< 1326511052 741107 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably still use gopher if Google go ofline
< 1326511146 951969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some Wikipedia mirror
< 1326511400 512132 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
< 1326511419 617093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, I am aware.
< 1326511586 222953 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326512213 157020 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326512731 133058 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a program called Internet Quiz Engine. It is written in CWEB, and will be available to put your own quiz file too, after I have tested it. It is a program to run on gopher services; similar to CGI but much simpler. There is only one environment variable called SELECTOR and no headers.
< 1326512767 374092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have already written other programs to use this convention, you can use PHP or Perl or whatever you want, as long as you can access environment variables)
< 1326513810 531385 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1326513818 699384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-174.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326514222 842511 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it is C, there is no buffer overflow because there is no buffer!
< 1326514785 273693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often would you use >>= or join with Parsec? Probably only very rarely; it isn't useful in most cases. Actually, return probably isn't very useful with Parsec either; if I need a constant value I can use <$ to result in that value when certain things are parsed.
< 1326514887 415310 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1326514928 395003 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-238-29.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326515155 410705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want >>= if you want to branch on the first parser in a way too complicated to be efficiently split into <|> cases?
< 1326515197 43057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parser result
< 1326515221 220406 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326515252 121631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, yes; a dependent parser (I don't know if that is a proper term used anywhere), in case you want to do something such as a number written in decimal form which tells how many bytes to read for the data, and stuff like that. But it is not required for most things you are going to parse.
< 1326515317 525166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-context-free" would be an approximation.
< 1326515344 288291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, is that what it is called? Or, only approximately?
< 1326515401 366161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in principle you always _can_ split into <|> 's; i saw a blog post showing how.  but it requires using haskell's laziness to make the grammar essentially infinite.
< 1326515453 96050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think if you use only applicative methods and a finite grammar, you can do only context-free things.
< 1326515589 380960 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think so.
< 1326515619 22962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would rarely ever need it differently.
< 1326515670 286461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope.  but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
< 1326515712 478109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
< 1326515722 59949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that = post-parsing)
< 1326515763 73925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, you would probably do that post-parsing. Although if it needs to be done during parsing for some reason then yes you would want >>= for that purpose, but I suppose that is also a "dependent parser" or "non-context-free" or whatever? Is it?
< 1326515774 951362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326516038 804380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose context-free with an infinite grammar is like non-context-free?
< 1326516122 817313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can turn an arbitrary String -> Bool function into such a grammar
< 1326516181 577558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1326516188 636287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite strings.
< 1326516398 77357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the blog article; note that he uses "context-sensitive" but that's too restrictive: http://byorgey.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/parsing-context-sensitive-languages-with-applicative/
< 1326516773 520399 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com
< 1326516807 700125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1326516841 430625 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326517068 261850 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517278 507961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nginx does not properly support headerless HTTP. I suggest that they fix that.
< 1326517322 988478 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517327 971020 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"headerless HTTP" sounds like "not HTTP"
< 1326517360 212297 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean HTTP 0.9?
< 1326517393 985410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, I mean headerless HTTP. True it is not complete HTTP. But Apache supports headerless HTTP.
< 1326517424 327407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think nginx is obliged to support everything apache does
< 1326517425 279640 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326517432 55348 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have some documentation of Apache's support
< 1326517439 433621 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i found googling for "headerless HTTP" was HTTP 0.9
< 1326517480 757224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Apache, omitting the HTTP/1.1 or whatever after the URL omits both the request header and the response header. Nginx will omit the request header if you do that, but it will not omit the response header.
< 1326517516 432504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a documented feature
< 1326517522 71385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just something that happens to work
< 1326517528 198161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I know how it works because I tried it.
< 1326517552 318699 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Apache's headerless HTTP seems more reasonable to me than Nginx's headerless HTTP.
< 1326517552 480310 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now you want nginx to be bug-compatible with apache
< 1326517557 77420 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517591 10420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know it isn't a bug, it is supposed to be like that.
< 1326517617 213424 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: According to http://www.apacheweek.com/features/http11 this is standard HTTP 0.9 behaviour.
< 1326517678 843657 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does seem nginx claims to support HTTP/0.9
< 1326517682 635064 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised
< 1326517716 344247 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1326517721 207613 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I $ nc localhost 80\nGET /\n, it gives me an nginx response page with no headers.
< 1326517739 746740 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the headers are coming from a CGI-style executable or something along those lines?
< 1326517775 430971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK. Yes maybe that is the case, or maybe they changed it from the version I have tried connecting to (including Google and FreeGeek), or whatever else.
< 1326517808 413901 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Google runs nginx.
< 1326517829 394589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it is gws
< 1326517830 824395 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517844 721945 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they should fix gws
< 1326517867 27754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know FreeGeek is nginx and at least the version I have tried had that problem; maybe not all versions do
< 1326517886 564892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use Apache on my own computer, however.)
< 1326517896 809470 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you seem to have an odd idea of what the word "fix" means
< 1326518167 241902 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326522677 957143 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326522710 556729 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
< 1326522749 562545 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net TOPIC #esoteric :United ITV of hex-him & hill-sinking of the UNITED states of ame"corporatism"riva | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1326522889 621062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326522903 302707 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiii
< 1326523008 508076 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it correct to say that the big idea is to have the impurity _just outside_ the language level?
< 1326523013 589237 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :notaprogram
< 1326523025 426021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of how IO gets done in Haskell
< 1326523032 367001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides an impurity monster under Sgeo's bed

< 1326523074 902145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turing tests notaprogram 

< 1326523101 371381 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :move pawn to b1
< 1326523132 660487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :notaprogram: Do you mean a black pawn?
< 1326523145 502606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're human, no computer could play chess that badly
< 1326523158 916502 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I insist on moving first
< 1326523195 29449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :notaprogram: Then is it a variant or is it standard FIDE chess? In standard FIDE chess, you cannot move a white pawn to b1
< 1326523224 881854 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I meant b3
< 1326523236 872029 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's friday the 13, I mix up the digits
< 1326523241 595904 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326523263 746691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK.
< 1326523281 496754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no
< 1326523291 911270 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037]
< 1326523428 568733 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :quantumprogram
< 1326523561 22200 :quantumprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326523696 518724 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is a functional programming language
< 1326523713 572109 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1326523719 216197 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
< 1326523723 437707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1326523759 777991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1326523778 944983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think even elliott would consider that an appropriate case)
< 1326523798 86329 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... can I get added as an op here?
< 1326523804 990361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326523811 415756 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you?
< 1326523816 63214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite physically possible.
< 1326523855 375399 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it probable?
< 1326523865 927776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the near future, no.
< 1326523882 131939 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a heart of gold.
< 1326523895 236317 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold is expensive...
< 1326524160 548275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a heart of pyrite will do
< 1326524172 229529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, to me the essential idea is that descriptions of IO are first-class values
< 1326524207 22978 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, right, and right outside the language, the description of main is executed?
< 1326524215 392180 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't say that's "outside the language"
< 1326524224 808256 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskell Report specifies the meaning of each IO action
< 1326524233 784244 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside the miranda of the language
< 1326524241 901559 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have one semantics for function application and evaluation, and another semantics for execution of IO actions
< 1326524244 861952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both part of the language
< 1326524260 615697 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the rules for execution invoke the rules for evaluation
< 1326524292 295760 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh44QPT1mPE
< 1326524295 952807 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you can execute an IO action, you have to compute what it is
< 1326524316 792562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1326524321 863277 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just at the "outer level" of main, but at each occurrence of (>>=)
< 1326524357 21796 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have unsafe{Perform,Interleave}IO then the rules are mutually recursive: the result of evaluating some value can depend on the result of executing some IO action
< 1326524396 83890 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to program in a strict-evaluation language which still has the evaluation/execution distinction, but where unsafePerformIO is not as stigmatized
< 1326524423 152052 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP
< 1326524796 381574 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it would be even more interesting to program in http://requestforlogic.blogspot.com/2011/08/embracing-and-extending-levy-language.html
< 1326525195 303124 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, cool
< 1326525228 264079 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately there's no Haskell implementation
< 1326525434 260661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is Jyte closed for upgrades/bad gateway?
< 1326525572 887019 :jpulgarin!~jpulgarin@CPE0013f7ab8170-CM0013f7ab816c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326525578 675431 :jpulgarin!~jpulgarin@CPE0013f7ab8170-CM0013f7ab816c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326525852 693501 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326527158 627022 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527158 828355 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1326527158 989963 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527358 404608 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527376 684758 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1326528324 924213 :primo_!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326528471 155485 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1326529642 557043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Quiz Engine:   gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
< 1326529691 901484 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome doesn't seem to support gopher
< 1326529716 726458 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox removed support... but there's an extension
< 1326529726 525132 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/bashgopher/bashgopher
< 1326529772 734790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need to modify it to work with your system. h = go back, j k = down/up, u i = page down/page up, l = follow, q = quit. When reading text file, space next page, b previous page, q go back.
< 1326529799 820961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, adding "-q -1" to nc if necessary, changing "clsb" to "clear", and changing CRLF to LF only.
< 1326529967 365309 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work for you?
< 1326530293 736499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In today's economy, which would be worth more, five golden tumors or five golden mice?
< 1326530440 907726 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :[Mathnerd314]
< 1326530582 757647 :[Mathnerd314]!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314_
< 1326530884 462250 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326531280 82823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326531297 579244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326531781 553588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326532143 266465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1326532578 960444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326532820 684857 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping
< 1326532907 610957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1326532929 863534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326533357 118891 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me: pong
< 1326534086 659292 :primo_!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th NICK :primo
< 1326534266 15743 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 74
< 1326534276 591119 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :74)  Invalid! Kill! Kill!  I get that feeling too.
< 1326534293 961084 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1326534297 640996 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  Warrigal: what do you mean by 21?
< 1326534302 247412 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 21
< 1326534306 22040 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :21) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE:  there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
< 1326534387 794605 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 314
< 1326534391 448844 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :314)  ais523: quick, say something funny   something funny hagrea:D   can'tä sopt laughitn
< 1326534521 664406 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 313
< 1326534523 996322 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 315
< 1326534524 950749 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :313)  it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
< 1326534527 202912 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :315)  elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet
< 1326534554 602520 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.
< 1326534563 791518 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326534568 114545 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 333
< 1326534570 849921 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :333)  haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS   "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!"   "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards"
< 1326534591 917727 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 249
< 1326534594 859279 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor
< 1326534611 651015 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1326534615 347414 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :250)  mtve, now he's an expert idler.   mtve: kitty kitty kitty
< 1326534731 480880 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 252
< 1326534734 627392 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :252)  I need a new desktop background   j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled)   uhrghoaudp
< 1326534798 214252 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 253
< 1326534801 465230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :253) * quintopia sits on gregor
< 1326534821 610509 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326534825 192792 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh, to sleep I go
< 1326534889 703735 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 254
< 1326534892 850684 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :254)  [...] reyouthismootherate [...]
< 1326535368 540357 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 302
< 1326535371 965325 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :302)  Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here
< 1326535502 759458 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 304
< 1326535506 116065 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :304) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h   * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM)    Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O    A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS.
< 1326535535 435660 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 305
< 1326535538 742837 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :305)  addquoting yourself?  isn't that like commenting on your own facebook status?    Yup, but I'm JUST THAT AWESOME.
< 1326535632 504115 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :lament
< 1326535708 559859 :lament!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :mathnerd314
< 1326535879 68653 :mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326535900 56998 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 311
< 1326535903 45271 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :311)  I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
< 1326536068 107208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326536420 746093 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 320
< 1326536423 837704 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :320)  BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN
< 1326536443 218030 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops... too far
< 1326536453 957289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS.
< 1326536454 192425 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try again tomorrow
< 1326536457 939661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1326536461 433082 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1014
< 1326536466 91805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, enjoy.
< 1326536514 822977 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, they're all wrong
< 1326536536 139920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, jesus.
< 1326536545 192468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked you more when you were just annoying, rather than insane.
< 1326536578 102257 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know. but insanity appears to be the only way out...
< 1326536602 988848 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping me when you're available
< 1326536621 822703 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 683
< 1326536625 435054 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :683)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks
< 1326536674 504929 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be cool if i joined with ms comic chat
< 1326536783 176648 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 12.0a1/20120113031050]
< 1326537085 40097 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote sleep
< 1326537088 521424 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :325)  i'm really sleep \ 544)  IM FIST IN HEAD AND DONT KNOW TO SLEEP?????? \ 559)  That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.)   The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. \ 613)  in the past few minutes I tried remembering
< 1326537104 781978 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote shachaf
< 1326537108 399574 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :617)  elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses.   The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 663)  Real Tar is GNU tar.   You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 701)  VMS Mosaic?   I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.   Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1326537123 772071 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those quotes are terrible.
< 1326537150 484532 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take solace in the fact that `quote isn't so much "best of" as "random of".
< 1326537493 955862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  
< 1326537497 907426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, oops
< 1326537521 813126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why was there a single space in the input line?)
< 1326541522 130928 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly a ploy by the romulans to disrupt our communications
< 1326541593 690939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326541597 954586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott_!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 15:34:34 2012.
< 1326541600 289946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU
< 1326541975 245623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A purely functional user interface is not a user interface at all! It is a picture or maybe even an animation, but it is not something you can interact with."
< 1326541976 617158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries.

< 1326542074 868080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:45: -!- roper has joined #esoteric.
< 1326542075 29806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:59:57:  they say one got online every day to remedy affairs caused other hours from her nick
< 1326542075 192241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:21:  roper: I do not understand without a context?
< 1326542075 192427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:40:  account hijacking
< 1326542075 192532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:02:13:  bot harassment
< 1326542075 870531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:03:02:  they are quite talkative
< 1326542077 548469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:03:43:  i think they use your history from other conversations
< 1326542079 872939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...
< 1326542088 140244 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :romulans
< 1326542097 48221 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326542131 59952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's ever an esoteric blend of Haskell, �f� should be equivalent to `(flip f)`
< 1326542145 114678 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326542152 58601 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, haskell isn't esoteric enough for you?
< 1326542153 944537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Hello
< 1326542157 26804 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1326542190 778811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I can generally figure out what a Haskell program is for by looking at it for a while
< 1326542226 836748 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i was thinking exactly that haskell is a right-to-left language
< 1326542244 421543 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed i define flip ($) in all my programs to be <>
< 1326542249 139418 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very useful
< 1326542304 54391 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have called it �
< 1326542318 254529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326542383 749589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :£sd
< 1326542682 432080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:24:32  dibblego: Why did you kick me?
< 1326542682 594244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:04  Fifo: please do not spam the channel or its users in private
< 1326542682 594423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:29  dibblego: Sorry!
< 1326542682 594529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:49  dibblego: Please join ##iPhoneFifo!
< 1326542743 559633 :Nisstyre!~yours@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326542745 863630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1326542787 811986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:24:  roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
< 1326542787 974143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:44:  not entirely
< 1326542787 974325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:51:  he could just be really dumb.
< 1326542787 974430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:53:  >_>
< 1326542796 452358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan logreading: i'm definitely leaning on the side of just really dumb
< 1326542902 411286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is such a weird channel
< 1326542917 385501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possitively esoteric
< 1326542926 806917 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp
< 1326542936 320261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:23:20:  zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
< 1326542937 380897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: YET.
< 1326542941 927306 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326542951 719962 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internet Quiz Engine:   gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
< 1326542953 381724 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUNDS LEGIT
< 1326542957 853125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1326543011 561519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php
< 1326543050 524104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher is a pun!
< 1326543054 855954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh
< 1326543104 292463 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326543106 74960 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326543122 542638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:34:30:  you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope. but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
< 1326543122 704698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:35:12:  oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
< 1326543122 704894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:35:22:  (that = post-parsing)
< 1326543132 186868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what you need is a bitemporal state monad
< 1326543138 851784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that state flows both forwards and backwards
< 1326543153 915 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bitemporal"!? That two-timing...!
< 1326543153 787198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you need the state to be a Monoid to combine them
< 1326543157 91602 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one point twenty one jiggawatts
< 1326543257 671196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:31:50:  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
< 1326543257 869624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly it's even basically correct
< 1326543308 712121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite all the people going "getChar is, like, referentially transparent so you're wrong" :|
< 1326543419 409874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:16:  the universe is a functional programming language
< 1326543419 609915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:33:  ok
< 1326543419 610112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:39:  but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
< 1326543423 505319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good, he's still crazy!
< 1326543893 949884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of correct
< 1326543913 775357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's just arguing about what words mean
< 1326543929 831424 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you accept joel's definition than Haskell isn't a pure functional language
< 1326543993 362752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has a pure subset, but I've never heard a convincing argument that haskell with IO is pure; people say that since getChar is always "the same getChar" it's referentially transparent, but nobody has a definition of "same" for IO actions
< 1326544001 664711 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one
< 1326544005 603235 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensional equivalence
< 1326544017 567399 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no experiment by which you can distinguish "one getChar from another"
< 1326544034 196559 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't want to argue about what "pure" means
< 1326544041 17729 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but evaluating getChar (like with seq) doesn't perform any IO
< 1326544044 56707 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a fact
< 1326544046 423761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little lax for my tastes :P and yeah, I'm not saying it does
< 1326544059 706496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's the same standard by which you decide whether two functions are "the same"
< 1326544060 925463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever
< 1326544069 285026 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we can't do that, we can't even say that "map" is referentially transparent
< 1326544070 16584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, but there /are/ experiments you can perform on functions
< 1326544079 318049 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are experiments you can perform on IO actions too
< 1326544085 914566 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do one every time you run a haskell program
< 1326544099 133479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see you're arguing about what "pure" means :P
< 1326544102 637970 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326544125 790362 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326544207 654643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has evaluation semantics and execution semantics
< 1326544237 150393 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is a calculus of referentially-transparent functions without side effects
< 1326544252 574610 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is like an imperative programming language with effects and results
< 1326544276 760843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't up for arguing himself, but I *do* understand how IO works in Haskell and I don't think that it's "not really a monad" or "just impurity that you can't see" or whatever newbies say because of a lack of understanding

< 1326544280 227460 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the combination of these forms a "pure functional programming language" is a stupid argument
< 1326544287 863706 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you know how it works
< 1326544289 301850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree that treating (IO a) as a model of an imperative program with result type a is just fine
< 1326544306 173656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that it lets you consider far too many things that are completely impure in practice as pure
< 1326544309 729284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can model them that way
< 1326544387 517711 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand
< 1326544411 155684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's ok
< 1326544419 717366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326544420 278926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any pure imperative languages?
< 1326544427 811641 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would such thing have any point at all?
< 1326544451 107467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a great excuse to argue about what "pure" and "imperative" mean
< 1326544476 15958 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pressed me for a yes/no answer on "pure" and "imperative" I would say that Haskell is both
< 1326544483 93360 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be an unpopular viewpoint
< 1326544554 81618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the wrong focus if you want to understand haskell or why it's good
< 1326544571 662057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's much easier to agree on "Haskell code that does IO is too imperative and impure in style" than "Haskell is impure"
< 1326544583 715509 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too imperative" by what standard
< 1326544594 830995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring your own standards
< 1326544600 923534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to "the ideal"
< 1326544614 361984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little impurity is good for a language
< 1326544616 238567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it would be nicer if we could write code that interacts with the outside world in a more functional style
< 1326544638 246858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work?
< 1326544639 337512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say "declarative" rather than "functional"
< 1326544652 340691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes. others would say "denotational" :P
< 1326544666 223036 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, well, a very simple example is interact :: (String -> String) -> IO ()
< 1326544668 180686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic sentiment is the same
< 1326544679 296270 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326544692 578995 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like declarative programming and it would be cool to use it in more areas
< 1326544711 622713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time, i find imperative programming in Haskell to be pleasant enough
< 1326544736 448702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, don't get me wrong -- Haskell's IO system is a good compromise and it's much more "crisply" defined than in most other languages
< 1326544764 899309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it definitely bugs me to see people say "haskell is like the purest language ever and if you think IO is in any way imperative or 'impure in style' or anything you're just an idiot"
< 1326544767 494835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, not in those words :P)
< 1326544799 280063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purest language ever... surely that would be a tie between a few esolangs?
< 1326544811 484269 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's pretty much agreed that IO is an embedded imperative language
< 1326544812 60344 :Nisstyre!~yours@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1326544820 336531 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether this makes Haskell overall "impure" is a meaningless argument about definitions
< 1326544830 434714 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how can we say that language a is more or less pure than language b?
< 1326544846 572167 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is more pure? Java or C++?
< 1326544849 273690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's agreed in #haskell, but I don't think that's the same thing as "agreed by people who call themselves haskell programmers on the wider internet" :p
< 1326544857 332620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1326544878 208410 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me Haskell is a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
< 1326544891 639625 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't focus on ideological purity
< 1326544903 544759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've seen at least one person in here and one person on SO yell loudly about how stupid the "action" terminology is because "you wouldn't call (Maybe a) an action and IO is, like, just as pure as the rest of the nomads"
< 1326544912 353315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly at least one of those people was dumb.
< 1326544924 960429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid
< 1326544932 213628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomads aren't pure.
< 1326544934 440950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't call (Maybe a) a list either, but [a] is
< 1326544951 140323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well it was in reaction to saying "monadic actions" more generally
< 1326544956 652984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's perfectly reasonable to call (Maybe a) an action
< 1326544959 520465 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1326544963 512504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it matters
< 1326544973 256120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think #haskell should agree on common terminology and push it
< 1326544978 104850 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead we just bicker about words
< 1326544992 316201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, getting a few hundred people to agree on IRC
< 1326544995 922429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur funy
< 1326545007 297835 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the *reason* i don't worry about whether Haskell is philosophically pure
< 1326545009 34748 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoid #haskell, mainly because I'm scared of big groups
< 1326545014 24425 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that i wish *other people* would see it as a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
< 1326545046 933010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a language for extremists who argue all day about philosophical purity
< 1326545049 942424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is at least primarily functional, although has features from other paradigms
< 1326545087 334437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: as an extremist i'm offended
< 1326545091 388141 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326545094 834120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well sir
< 1326545211 684892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326545456 205185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular many of Haskell's strengths have nothing to do with "purity"
< 1326545694 187643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my "why learn Haskell" slides i talk only a little bit about "purity" and types
< 1326545786 175279 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spend more time on stuff like EDSLs, lightweight concurrency, STM, semi-implicit parallelism, GHC 
< 1326545803 766382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe purity is overrated but I don't think types are.
< 1326545808 704802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickCheck, Criterion, Threadscope, other tools, etc.
< 1326545824 441691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think Haskell is very well-suited to EDSLs... it excels at some of them but falls down for others

< 1326545867 387373 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those features rely on purity, in the sense of "Haskell programmers tend to write lots of pure functions", not in the sense of "Haskell absolutely forbids you from writing an impure function"
< 1326545875 412887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which of course, common implementations don't)
< 1326545938 616884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, types are pretty important
< 1326545945 218003 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to convince someone of that in a few slides
< 1326545962 736304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't try to convince people of things in a few slides :)

< 1326545968 850702 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok
< 1326545973 561163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, fair point.
< 1326545978 800935 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, and I was talking about one effort to do so
< 1326546002 168283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that things like you listed are better sells under such constraints.
< 1326546002 361040 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the best case, you convince them that it's a useful feature for preventing mistakes
< 1326546005 956534 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... still not that sexy
< 1326546021 812865 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, subconsciously I know that *I* don't make any mistakes
< 1326546047 78102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but think about all the other terrible programmers you have to deal with!
< 1326546054 659517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, we can sell Haskell on antagonism and ego.
< 1326546054 964975 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably aren't using haskell
< 1326546058 567384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Ruby!
< 1326546060 604603 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326546063 533345 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché
< 1326546113 322467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was enough to fill an hour with "here's this amazing thing Haskell lets you do"
< 1326546137 70897 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I didn't have to focus too much on the essentially negative "here's how Haskell protects you from the stupidity of yourself and others"
< 1326546148 584140 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree it's not a great EDSL host
< 1326546162 95043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a pretty good EDSL host, and that this plays nicely with the other strengths of the language
< 1326546174 241387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The question is a simple one. Must all operations on a TVar happen 
< 1326546174 711817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :within *the same* atomically block, or am I am I guaranteed thread 
< 1326546174 874497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :safety if, say, I have a number of atomically blocks in an IO 
< 1326546174 874685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :function."
< 1326546181 857701 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish Template Haskell weren't so fucking cumbersome; then we could have some better concrete syntax for EDSLs
< 1326546198 105658 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1326546212 297178 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them to read the last chapter of RWH
< 1326546218 527717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to live in a world where "atomically" means "atomicallyAndThenSome", and the layout of code into "IO functions" affects its semantics.

< 1326546223 321356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'd have to subscribe to haskell-cafe.
< 1326546235 175528 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you just lurk and snark
< 1326546238 946439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1326546246 569752 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool
< 1326546267 52097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the kind of EDSLs Haskell is good at are the ones that are richer than Haskell.
< 1326546275 832215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say "first-class" EDSLs.
< 1326546282 208000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Parsec and so on.
< 1326546290 767104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problems come when you can't embed Haskell in them, e.g. anything you're trying to compile
< 1326546306 482315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1326546332 451584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you just have to fall back on ugly typeclass hacks and in the end you get sick of Eq because it forces (==) to mean something rather than letting you use any "boolean" you want :P
< 1326546352 123076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be solvable in principle
< 1326546382 235428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks there are a few promising ways to solve it, and I think solving it would be a great way to create a language better than Haskell.

< 1326546412 454771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a *lot* of this kind of stuff being done -- anything that does observable sharing is essentially working around Haskell's DSL-related weaknesses, for example.
< 1326546418 884973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326546430 397667 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well first you want to unify something like Template Haskell with something like GHC API, only hopefully make both of them a lot less shitty
< 1326546465 338709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that would be very (very) valuable, but isn't sure it's the best basis for most EDSLs

< 1326546469 403281 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you can construct a Haskell AST, then compile it and use it as a function
< 1326546472 761384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :metaprogramming in haskell sucks right now
< 1326546494 787087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do this at "compile time" or at "run time", and hopefully the distinction between the two is not so pronounced
< 1326546509 713309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you seen the http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~megacz/garrows/ stuff?
< 1326546520 920307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, started reading it a while ago
< 1326546523 111972 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get very far
< 1326546525 678840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1326546529 787397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like arrows, but it's very interesting.
< 1326546548 177712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seems to be able to do an awful lot of DSL-y stuff that isn't really possible now.
< 1326546557 159763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is ugly though.
< 1326546598 282684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get bonus style points for implementing part of GHC in Coq
< 1326546627 475669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always surprised that Coq extraction actually works in practice.
< 1326546674 536730 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how would you solve the problem
< 1326546687 86761 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than better macros and staged compilation
< 1326546874 908163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I think it involves restructuring the language at a bit of a deeper level to be truly natural. Things like using typeclasses for the kind of introspective overloading you see is basically just trying to selectively override the language's semantics, which is generally really awkward in Haskell. (The AwesomePrelude thing takes this to its logical conclusion, and it's not pretty.) I can imagine a language which essentially does the equiv
< 1326546875 70127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alent of having a typeclass for each language feature -- conditionals, pattern-matching, self-reference, duplicating values, etc. -- and you can override that piecemeal so that all the same syntax and meaning is retained, but in possibly a more restricted setting; you'd have a bracket mechanism which would let you write code in a new semantics. That's basically what the generalised arrow stuff is doing, to my understanding; there's a typeclass fo
< 1326546875 899398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r each additional language feature, and the code you write is just unrolled into a bunch of those.
< 1326546898 200924 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1326546906 707584 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn more about garrows then
< 1326546917 327050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be *really* radical, you could eliminate the bracketing entirely, and direct the overriding of the semantics by the types -- i.e. if something is expecting an argument in a certain semantics, those semantics are used when you fill in that argument.
< 1326546990 385435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That also ties in with more language-based support for effects; e.g. you could easily define a semantics that supports every such "language ability" but that does nondeterministic computation, and you'd get the equivalent of the list monad but with the same syntax as the outer language.
< 1326547046 42681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't read all of the GArrows stuff, but intends to sometime. What I've read is basically similar to all this, except that it's very explicit about what's "metaprogramming" and what's not -- there's a leap from "normal Haskell" to "metaprogramming stuff".

< 1326547104 657983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And, of course, opting out of implementing a certain capability lets you do things like the kind of optimisations you can do to applicative/arrow-based parsers.
< 1326547121 648383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except more aggressive, since you have full access to the *entire* structure of the EDSL program.
< 1326547133 269643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing hiding behind an "arr", etc.)
< 1326547234 1085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't even be a large leap from that to make the language self-extending on an even deeper level -- if you can define your own language capabilities (and I don't see what would stop you, if everything was appropriately first-class -- indeed, I'd expect most extensions (like nondeterministic computation) would be implemented by defining a new capability for that, and giving a canonical implementation), then all you need to be able to do is d
< 1326547234 163102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :efine new syntax for those capabilities and it becomes as good as a native language feature.
< 1326547240 993908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be going further down the Lisp path than most people would like, though.
< 1326547269 757302 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326547280 901335 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already controversy over "how typed" template haskell should be
< 1326547313 313380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326547338 717623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the proposal to give it a typed layer, but allow access to just AST-mangling, is probably the best thing for it as it stands
< 1326547373 304783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that in a more ideal language, TH would be basically completely untyped, because well-typed things would be expressible directly, without having to resort to a special "metaprogramming macro processing" facility
< 1326548062 72453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326548064 13164 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1326548065 217678 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326548911 321873 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326548935 105809 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-174.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1326549223 914042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need help indexing XML files into Solr using DataImportHandler
< 1326549224 113369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know java, I don't know XML, and I don't know Lucene. Now that that's out of the way. I have been working to create a little project using apache solr/lucene. My problem is that I am unable to index the xml files.
< 1326549235 291574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] I am not sure what information is required for you to help me so I will just post the code.
< 1326550559 686946 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326550674 874212 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326551123 133768 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326551463 123646 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553131 455342 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553151 27466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1326553171 333398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Phantom_Hoover
< 1326553368 81604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553438 637650 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek a zombie
< 1326553536 315909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP us all
< 1326553556 936200 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :%rip
< 1326553584 24268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv %rip, usall
< 1326553587 451947 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326553598 298777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553659 545291 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1326553670 57720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326553689 50412 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1326553733 212516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did your Haskell thing-that's-a-bit-like-an-argument-but-you-both-agree go?
< 1326553758 261248 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's called a "discussion"
< 1326553779 869679 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the logs are public
< 1326553788 304832 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've read them.
< 1326553796 644280 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to make conversation
< 1326553814 275831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not allowed
< 1326553817 29205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only arguments
< 1326553967 454701 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (*2) 1
< 1326553968 858270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1024
< 1326553981 240924 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lols
< 1326554003 620650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (join (+)) 1
< 1326554004 864990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1024
< 1326554046 172789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably what Ngevd's new haskell program actually looks like
< 1326554068 807913 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'm just playing with MIBBLLII
< 1326554095 770009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdabot can be used as a non-compliant interpreter for a similar language to MIBBLLII
< 1326554280 872880 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap id id
< 1326554281 580502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
< 1326554281 741688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
< 1326554281 741892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `ap', namely `id'
< 1326554284 930592 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1326554291 468313 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolang that looks like brainfuck but isn't
< 1326554307 346827 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the usual esolangs that don't look like brainfuck but are
< 1326554327 630435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The functions ap, join, const, id, flip, and (.) match up 1 to 1 with MIBBLLII combinators
< 1326554347 168121 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you work in the ... (->) r monad ???
< 1326554347 619406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or the ones that look like, and are brainfuck.
< 1326554376 332404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something?
< 1326554387 566141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you have Control.Monad and Control.Monad.Instances
< 1326554391 43255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Zoo_Tycoon_2_Cheats_Money
< 1326554413 464817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have spambots been attacking spam articles?
< 1326554456 758143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would totally use a language named Zoo Tycoon 2 Cheats Money
< 1326554501 46367 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall we create a language by that name?
< 1326554542 488428 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326554551 401130 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoo == objects, tycoon == control structures, 2 == ...arithmetic?, cheats == functions./subroutines
< 1326554560 143266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :money == finance library?
< 1326554589 916298 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be brainfuck except the instructions are encoded as the phrases "Wikipedia", "game money prize tree", "free money woman", "money and mbti", "trace a money order", "europes history on money", "find instantly low money price search", and "how much money to bring to europe"
< 1326554608 523634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1326554763 35631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326554815 519350 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you should invent a language such that we can execute these spam pages
< 1326554837 688431 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
< 1326554848 876263 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there are PLs for children, and that's kind of similar
< 1326555302 359851 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326555509 364586 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326555826 898156 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326556358 51376 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326556441 731275 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326556873 11534 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a�sldkfjaksdl�fldskjakdl�fldskjaksld�fldksjaksdlf�
< 1326556985 624784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326557464 796235 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehehe
< 1326558812 297373 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-32.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326558856 688930 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1326559405 984735 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326559487 702216 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560295 553692 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-111.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560326 115814 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-32.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1326560487 405499 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326560529 339930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560571 427563 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Server going down for maintenance.
< 1326561482 58275 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326561609 824356 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i see it the main role of mathematics in esolang design is to provide the language designer with a look at the primitive elements of programming languages instead of making a hopped up basic clone
< 1326561959 88229 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more accurately, thats what it means to me
< 1326562077 125614 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326562095 910101 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everybody.
< 1326562141 357493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Vax: Please tell me you're using an OpenVMS emulator.
< 1326562144 396208 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Poor timing, Phantom_Vax
< 1326562147 349101 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1326562567 232806 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm concocting a diabolical language possibly using some kind of message passing, but since i don't know in detail what message passing is i'm not entirely sure
< 1326562579 198556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1326562640 828110 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is really terrible, and "concocting a language" said in this room can mean something other than what i am doing since people here tend to actually create and finish languages and i don't
< 1326562720 44136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually its such a terrible idea that it just might work, but i have left little to go on in my posts
< 1326562748 895951 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1326562862 263788 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563009 287523 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326563048 186184 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the fundamental idea is an operator which can tell you if an object has a member of a specific type, and if it does you can access it directly through a local name
< 1326563100 79661 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563105 361643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like saying, does this object contain a string member? if it does then call that string s and do toupper(s)
< 1326563166 993005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could run into some kind of trouble when an object has multiple members of the same type but thats another story
< 1326563317 270825 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563331 889346 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that sounds weird, the idea gets even weirder the more i explore it
< 1326563955 362842 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1326564668 258959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326565407 498790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326565766 104083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326565817 312877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some of my own Arrows stuff because I don't like the existing one much. The purpose of "arr" is moved into a different class called CatFunctor and you can have from any category, doesn't have to be (->) and in addition, the (,) does not have to be (,) you can have any type of kind (* -> * -> *) used for a specific CatArrow. Purpose of ArrowChoice is just done by a dual category, now.
< 1326565866 228815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said
< 1326565979 262482 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to abuse a monad of some sort to get nice syntax without -XArrows?
< 1326566045 358846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "bind-like operator"
< 1326566047 146321 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinsk

< 1326566051 364251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blinsk
< 1326566054 675377 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nblinks
< 1326566098 207447 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566098 562957 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.246 QUIT :Changing host
< 1326566098 731734 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566116 527465 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have sworn I saw something though
< 1326566203 484249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree that "arr" in Control.Arrow is really a kind of functor (not an endofunctor)?
< 1326566256 926235 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what the difference is

< 1326566321 799204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of what?
< 1326566338 838901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors and endofunctors
< 1326566363 765920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself.
< 1326566365 835555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself. The Functor class in Haskell make endofunctor from (->) category to itself
< 1326566395 138841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors are comparable to morphisms over categories.
< 1326566408 701694 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions /are/ morphisms, you dolt.
< 1326566408 937606 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566417 616586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact I believe many of them are morphisms in the category of small categories.)
< 1326566439 392544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not all?? not sure)
< 1326566478 206957 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Internet Quiz Engine good to you?
< 1326566486 770805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is legitimate.
< 1326566488 68850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not relevant to me.
< 1326566591 791831 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php not only looks wrong, and uses . as the type, but doesn't even resolve. I am unsure why kmc posted this wrong URL, possibly to confuse you???
< 1326566707 841601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome toruk-mack
< 1326566712 435838 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :toruk-mack: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1326566736 546783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kmc Explain yourself!!!1
< 1326566736 901800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1326566737 885612 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :toruk-mack: Are you good at esolang?????
< 1326566767 573350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG: (omg still lolig @ that word boner i made ooomg) 
< 1326566785 442582 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, wrong channel
< 1326566790 184010 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326566874 85570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1326566894 702572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ past-toruk-mack ? esoteric
< 1326566898 802792 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :past-toruk-mack: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
< 1326567265 270364 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're still online
< 1326567276 835651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION messages

< 1326567303 462879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I checked that too
< 1326567311 933425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have no message to write to them.
< 1326567327 611027 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just sent "for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net."

< 1326567367 109817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It work if it was what they were looking for, which is possible, however
< 1326567581 477924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is DALnet down?
< 1326567636 714898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try connecting or ping or whatever?
< 1326567665 166520 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it seem down to me.
< 1326567669 71276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ping
< 1326567909 297675 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1326567909 459474 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326567920 709658 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1326568003 140951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326568046 41056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be annoying about only having gender neutral pronouns is that you could only refer to two things at the same time
< 1326568064 768392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English you can refer to at least 4 things unambiguously via pronouns.
< 1326568092 932911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose as a compromise would be to invent more than one gender-neutral pronoun
< 1326568095 947882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different kinds of.. things.
< 1326568111 565157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That only works if the things you're referring to are of different genders.
< 1326568126 908281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...yes, that's what I mean.
< 1326568136 368552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so it's not much of an advantage.
< 1326568141 34033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, people don't seem to have any problem in languages which use "it" for everything.
< 1326568151 756864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between it and he or she or they is pretty useful.
< 1326568158 509954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making pronouns gender-neutral only to immediately re-segregate them by some other means is ridiculous.
< 1326568170 823277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No?
< 1326568179 974734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, I really doubt you ever talk about that many things at once without using names.
< 1326568184 846518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1326568185 660385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would be impossible to follow.
< 1326568223 512653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens frequently enough
< 1326568239 845920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anyway there's no reason not to "resegregate" the pronouns by grammatical or conceptual distinctions
< 1326568244 195817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have nothing to do with people.
< 1326568265 619421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1326568270 58090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could involve people
< 1326568289 315594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you could have a pronoun for humans, and a pronoun for everything else
< 1326568292 299334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1326568295 592134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think it happens frequently enough.

< 1326568296 613382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pronoun for livings things, and a pronoun for inanimate things.
< 1326568302 407440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean they vs. it?
< 1326568307 642888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he knew that it was a bad idea"
< 1326568309 428285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if you want to refer generally to both humans and nonhumans
< 1326568314 794738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's real data on this, i.e. every language without such a distinction, so unless you're a linguist...
< 1326568323 519264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"she took it from me"  (thieving bitch)
< 1326568333 86357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326568336 56002 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can be one for living, one for inanimate, but then, is there going to be one for ideas?
< 1326568350 867807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that I am not in any way saying that these languages are somehow crippled in their expressiveness
< 1326568356 835682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that having multiple kinds of pronouns is a convenience.
< 1326568372 314935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also an inconvenience
< 1326568390 712781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that would be good. :)
< 1326568399 695840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrugs violently
< 1326568407 75445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs EXPLOSIVELY

< 1326568425 600469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure do love wild conjecture
< 1326568433 941698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do tell. what is my conjecture.
< 1326568449 202811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1326568460 541541 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326568541 355945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it happens all the time in storytelling. It's pretty frequent that you have a sentence involving a person and an inanimate that were both previously mentioned.
< 1326568573 686431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION conjectures wildly.

< 1326568604 139135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you think persons and inanimates are so easily-confusable that we cannot deduce that from context like the billion other things we do on a regular basis?
< 1326568715 809668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no.
< 1326568750 294153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply assumed it was bad style in those languages to use the same pronoun in the same sentence to mean different things.
< 1326568757 893741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if that's common then... that works too.
< 1326568948 961314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person/non-person distinction isn't unheard of in other languages. For example Finnish.
< 1326568957 651642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1326569061 468259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It doesn't appear in colloquial Finnish, from what I've heard in here.
< 1326569069 722669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" is used for everything.
< 1326569135 284692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1326569341 520774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The demonstratives are used of non-human animate entities and inanimate objects. However, se and ne are often used to refer to humans in colloquial Finnish. (This usage is quite correct in a demonstrative sense, i.e. when qualified by the relative pronoun joka, and in fact it is hypercorrect to replace a demonstrative se or ne with hän or he just because the antecedent is human.) 
< 1326569532 102718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, zzo38 and I are going to go invent a language with at least 20 pronouns
< 1326569627 163362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe some distinctions between pro-adjectives and pro-verbs and pro-adverbs
< 1326569630 122458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pro-sentences.
< 1326569641 201648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language for pros.
< 1326569765 513810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the other words, we'll take a dataset of every word in every language and its meaning, and then reassign it a different meaning using `words
< 1326569771 601901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1326569775 469304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :different name rather
< 1326569809 459837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end result will be that there's probably like 50 ways to say "dog"
< 1326569833 853267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming 50 languages were uses, and none of those languages have more than one way to say dog)
< 1326570395 978671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr[(a)]g; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570399 195954 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17425 aborted due to compilation errors.
< 1326570422 100822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/g; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570422 645757 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17496 aborted due to compilation errors.
< 1326570427 317434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1326570432 873224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570433 369034 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1326570438 595679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ /$x/g; 
< 1326570439 27252 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa
< 1326570468 894832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1326570557 501596 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326570862 976982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326570935 785995 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571036 791314 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-238-29.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1326571136 330716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326571169 132296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1326571190 777408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571599 59251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326571667 198907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571680 965364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow so I got $25 for setting up a simple HTML5 audio player, and then got $10 to write the ugly terrible hack to load an embedded player in the event of IE.
< 1326571684 680729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with this picture.
< 1326571699 332128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some one always irritate me an facebook massage, he use mobile for post massage. i want to know his mobile no, is there any way ?" what a good answer
< 1326571714 487219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...answer?
< 1326571717 1013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: web audio players
< 1326571727 988801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: regardless of that.
< 1326571789 662135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fought for
< 1326571793 938997 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :459)  elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
< 1326571822 817231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is meaning of that massage.
< 1326571921 789871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1326572015 238374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE doesn't support