< 1326412900 171374 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326413003 829392 :Guest50440!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326413146 244186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs < 1326413149 509584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < 1326413168 96703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log >.*palindromes < 1326413177 192757 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9465 < 1326413202 854351 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326413217 851943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log \>.*palindromes.*iterate < 1326413239 50345 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15923 < 1326413246 627432 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-13.txt:00:06:57: `log \>.*palindromes.*iterate < 1326413336 678164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palindromic_number < 1326413341 525955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every number is a palindromic number... < 1326413357 815049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there exists at least one base in which that number is a palindrome. < 1326413388 383527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, infinitely many < 1326413441 311339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any number n, all bases m > n? < 1326413457 327051 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1326413460 16510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326413491 918361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mistyped the empty string and then fumbled a bit but now i'm ok < 1326413517 112072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also m=n-1, it seems < 1326413525 143481 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1326413530 575407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_non-palindromic_number < 1326413618 369320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1326413623 58138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopses mistyped empty string < 1326413629 49033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say: < 1326414067 533540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: m = n-2 as well, for most bases I think < 1326414098 483524 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326414099 123358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, that's 12 < 1326414110 821490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1326414117 758263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a palindrome ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1326414118 161086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1326414124 443394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1326414124 582543 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1326414128 390207 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326414148 639194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion bash has the best support for infinite data structures. < 1326414162 618851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i...c < 1326414193 651820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414200 380613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the human mind is an infinite data structure. < 1326414205 13274 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414228 235719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human body is like a cellular automata of infinite structures. < 1326414246 693629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an < 1326414249 859374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite matrix of solidity < 1326414255 861110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414315 461735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if our minds are like operating systems, does that mean our operating system has a really shitty memory addressing scheme? < 1326414333 525035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cores does it have? < 1326414341 693373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1326414348 179583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysterys of life < 1326414765 915130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few billion cores < 1326414889 276078 :Guest50440!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP > 1326416246 807325 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416251 428842 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416251 936525 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416310 689760 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416315 316186 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416315 831639 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416351 582217 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416356 204236 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416356 719659 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416382 646136 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416387 285843 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416387 801922 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416426 139754 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416430 781690 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416431 299458 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416466 144662 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416470 785012 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416471 300841 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416503 809294 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416508 452347 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416508 967757 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416549 634489 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416554 249458 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416554 765126 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416589 644993 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416594 282415 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416594 797873 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416624 663422 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416629 305356 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416629 820977 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416668 646413 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326416668 891812 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326416668 893847 :kornbluth.freenode.net NOTICE #esoteric :[freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp > 1326416673 286306 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416673 801633 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326419674 36116 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326419688 30632 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326419716 216635 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326421199 969094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src iterate < 1326421200 130908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate f x = x : iterate f (f x) < 1326421348 787736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a number, I'm a cheesy and grating topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326422024 734999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (.) < 1326422024 933370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f . g) x = f (g x) < 1326422024 933565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB: In lambdabot, (.) = fmap < 1326422113 696087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (++) < 1326422114 166440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] ++ ys = ys < 1326422114 328284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys) < 1326422114 328474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR < 1326422114 328595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs < 1326422121 80480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src flip < 1326422121 496896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip f x y = f y x < 1326422131 50867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some NB's lacking < 1326422199 898738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1326422200 853975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1326422707 771491 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like Nofunctor! < 1326423421 953247 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326424728 415344 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there was an update < 1326424735 201325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326424755 584967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a number, I'm a cheesy and grating update | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326426547 651602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (>=>) < 1326426547 853390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1326426574 398496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src >=> < 1326426574 806701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! < 1326426598 559869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably (f >=> g) x = f x >>= g , anyway < 1326427144 472345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1326427161 914839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fills up the entire width of my terminal < 1326427185 879765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves one char at the end of mine < 1326427200 457228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you too do not maximize < 1326427205 344753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are non-maximize buddies then < 1326427270 189756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be accurate to say that... < 1326427284 179454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :=<< and <=< are analogous to $ and . ? < 1326427315 376828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit. < 1326427335 820636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although =<< needs to fight with <*> / ap for that. < 1326427343 885602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326427351 271390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<*> is a different kind of application. :P < 1326427374 398225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is generalized in Control.Category, and Kleisli is one based on <=< < 1326427374 611776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like application lifted into another type. < 1326427400 465681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ should be generalized somehow. < 1326427405 981078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......er < 1326427410 449497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's ap < 1326427447 918922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap is another < 1326427464 506022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lambdabot uses for . < 1326427493 514470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're completely clusterfucking my analogy.. :P < 1326427497 973738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambdabot's weird flip is yet one < 1326427499 947946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1326427501 156492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1326427511 431739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIND FUNCTOR < 1326427525 513990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the f is on the outside < 1326427532 598226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (a ->b) instead of a -> f b < 1326427541 98308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about different ways to put in the f's < 1326427547 207215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I've noticed. < 1326427580 157326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip is some kind of mixture of bind and ap isn't it? < 1326427612 113702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip f x = fmap ($ x) f < 1326427622 590567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> oh < 1326427652 777970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326427659 214723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how that generalizes the function case < 1326427673 664554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's also comonad whateverit'scalled < 1326427683 900320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course... < 1326427690 389788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what?) < 1326427695 600331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend, iirc < 1326427698 513085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extend < 1326427699 589363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `extend' < 1326427707 297789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1326427711 540984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Comonad < 1326427711 734864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1326427723 113960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess lambdabot may not have them at all < 1326427727 786545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Comonad < 1326427728 836911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `Comonad' < 1326427733 445371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k CoMonad < 1326427734 303173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `CoMonad' < 1326427737 796096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes functions are not pokemon. < 1326427745 529373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Monad < 1326427746 345532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Class `Monad' used as a type < 1326427746 539745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the type `Monad' < 1326427751 862974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1326427800 238210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle extend < 1326427800 732764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Posix.Terminal ExtendedFunctions :: TerminalMode < 1326427800 895072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Posix.Wrap compExtended :: CompOption < 1326427800 895190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Posix.String compExtended :: CompOption < 1326427806 118988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1326427853 147110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes the classic regex comonad < 1326427888 205381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, it might exist < 1326427900 639454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Parsec is pretty close I guess. < 1326427909 860809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is a Monad. < 1326427913 715270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1326427924 458407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see... < 1326427930 859005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't talk so much when I'm tired. < 1326427945 787369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aslobutely < 1326427970 937941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=>>) < 1326427971 825495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `=>>' < 1326427973 883261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot................... < 1326427976 128844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you < 1326427984 369122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that maybe was it < 1326427992 435354 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>) is flip extend < 1326427993 154093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (=>>) < 1326427993 688428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326428001 929143 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think it's flip extend?? < 1326428018 391837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend flip < 1326428033 581562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend tail < 1326428034 231760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>= flip) < 1326428035 135044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => (a -> f (a -> b)) -> a -> f b < 1326428044 126679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend is defined by the Extend typeclass in Data.Functor.Extend which is exported by Control.Comonad, I think????????? < 1326428058 128153 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all Comonads are Extends < 1326428120 907879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought lambdabot had this stuff though < 1326428227 182492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should make sure that the f has been put in all the places and if not list out all of combinations you can put the f in and then write functions for them < 1326428396 383077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326428493 250349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a good one < 1326428506 537671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a -> f b -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428539 232701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const const? < 1326428548 992049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1326428562 172252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1326428563 335835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326428569 529607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const const < 1326428570 531862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b b1. b1 -> a -> b -> a < 1326428583 440362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const const :: (Functor f) => f a -> f b -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428584 377722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f a -> f b -> f a -> f b < 1326428611 913373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1326428634 844045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another good one: < 1326428650 615050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f a -> f b) -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428704 469829 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PART :#esoteric < 1326428709 501295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pay you $200 to figure this one out < 1326428733 162443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsolved porbelm fro matemathics < 1326428862 278576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id id id id id id id 2 < 1326428862 859992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1326428874 553146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id 2 < 1326428878 77077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326428896 77114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you consequences of halting problem. < 1326428997 764487 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326429008 778905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hi < 1326429636 322170 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326431182 745570 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "consequences of the halting problem" being "everything"? < 1326431189 698498 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Everything provable, anyway.) < 1326431383 405738 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326431386 139558 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speechless. < 1326431398 31360 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded a Windows game, and tried to run it on WINE. It did not work. < 1326431408 19315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326431410 290595 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it included source, I tried typing in "make" < 1326431424 851812 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :After adding a few imports, against all reason, it actually compiled... < 1326431441 222360 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya-- 0,1Segmentation Fault < 1326431445 179298 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;.; < 1326431466 345869 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326431473 658729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you try running _that_ in wine? < 1326431476 476937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION helpful
< 1326431510 341780 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I compiled it to a Linux native binary, dummy. < 1326431534 449999 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ran it under WINE you might get a General Protection Fault. < 1326431560 588507 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux version, at least, manages to bring up a window before crashing. < 1326431872 533308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-244.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326431907 563758 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-183.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326432010 541941 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326432034 307799 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326432889 605339 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even in math there seems to be a general consensus about which problems are hard to solve, and what constitutes a good solution. But hacking is like writing. Who can say which of two novels is better? Certainly not the authors." < 1326432890 907525 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326433050 825000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326433058 412365 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-244.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326433826 148707 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was like painting. < 1326434209 531744 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the best writers of history have been painters and vice versa < 1326434211 46221 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, everyone knows that < 1326435275 125489 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326436056 46675 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326436859 320925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326437806 135559 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Doesn't look like your tolerance for doses of #-blah is increasing with practice. < 1326437854 377016 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's just wli < 1326437983 896594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Determined to die, so why bother trying to find alternatives. That's him. < 1326438027 109884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean he has got a really raw deal in life < 1326438035 817134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his bitterness is totally justified < 1326438044 599043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't make it any more pleasant to be around < 1326438082 33798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, *but* nevertheless. He might actually be able to wrangle refugee status. Or leave the US somehow... < 1326438462 424814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thinking in typeclasses is IMO the best thing to do: it's really the most Haskellish." < 1326438532 425398 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm surprised people are apparently willing to pay $250/day to program in Haskell rather than another language < 1326438536 481455 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :re http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/odv3t/welltyped_are_hiring_haskell_consultant/ < 1326438557 713141 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people actually willing to do that? < 1326438578 406511 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about this in #haskell-blah but wli took over with his AMERIKKKA rants so now y'all get to hear about it < 1326438580 425719 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was copumpkin's assertion that if someone takes the job, then they're willing to do that. < 1326438601 589323 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's possible the number is too low and that well-typed won't get any applications < 1326438617 708919 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, price discovery is hard, double so in labor markets < 1326438627 868461 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm taking one party's bid as a crude approximation of market price < 1326438669 327698 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one danger is that you get someone with intermediate Haskell skill who is super naive < 1326438742 990275 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who thinks Haskell magically eliminates all of the annoyances of programming in the real world < 1326438761 495958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, Haskell doesn't eliminate the real world. < 1326438764 38822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what @'s for! < 1326438791 233858 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the language really were as good as those people think, it would be worth the pay cut < 1326438795 97236 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not, and no language ever will be < 1326438820 713579 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a pretty good programming language < 1326438837 613601 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are many other companies that will pay you twice as much to use a different pretty good programming language < 1326438853 789739 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some other pretty good programming languages? < 1326438906 48182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure $55k is more like (somewhat low) starting wages for a halfway competent programmer literally just out of college... < 1326438915 436087 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the consensus in that thread in general was that they're underpaying. < 1326438930 888156 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, last I knew Google, Facebook, etc. would start around $80k, plus health insurance and other benefits < 1326438933 675322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... In the Midwest. < 1326438951 354098 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're working remotely from the USA, take like $500/mo off that Well-Typed money for health insurance < 1326438986 187069 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, languages i like include Haskell, Python, OCaml, Clojure, Scheme, C (for certain things) < 1326438989 968417 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them is perfect < 1326439016 248278 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for many tasks none of the first five will dominate, assuming you have skill in all < 1326439031 849331 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sorry, my scale of wages is somewhat set by the region I live in, which has significantly lower cost-of-living than the Valley. < 1326439040 73015 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1326439056 232059 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is one reason Well-Typed's offer might be more reasonable than it looks < 1326439058 961644 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can live somewhere cheap < 1326439069 614008 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cheap places suck < 1326439075 255352 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1326439093 393247 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you really need the money, in which case you can get more anyway, or you're young and healthy and single, in which case you probably don't want to live in the middle of nowhere < 1326439109 796676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean that's a false dichotomy but you get the point) < 1326439126 797620 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're presuming a fairly high level of skill. < 1326439133 380249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes the dichotomy pretty applicable. < 1326439167 465765 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well also you might be stuck in the middle of nowhere for other reasons < 1326439219 252551 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i think working from home is Not For Me < 1326439234 928550 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done that. I've learned the hard way that it's Not For Me. < 1326439247 909772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1326439276 989327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've discovered I'm not very productive in a home environment at all. < 1326439279 143830 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem for me was the lack of separation between "work" and "not-work", meaning I'd spend all day not-working but also spend all day feeling guilty about the fact that I should be working < 1326439285 503448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some mental switch in my head goes "home" = "fuck around" < 1326439311 78421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a physical office job I might enter that state too but only for 8-10 hours at a time :) < 1326439319 523550 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nohjf < 1326439321 117688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niughji < 1326439322 368287 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1326439326 893541 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1326439328 655223 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night Sgeo < 1326439328 953093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night sgeo < 1326439368 798632 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other problem was lack of contact with my coworkers and employers < 1326439379 822704 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seeing them around being productive makes me more productive < 1326439392 159067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about explicit communication < 1326439399 157504 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too, is a factor. < 1326439403 704669 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though in my experience with WFH we were also bad about explicit communication) < 1326439435 314988 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some companies have employees who WFH most of the time and come in like one day a week < 1326439438 918876 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'd like that < 1326439609 912152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have an ingrown fingernail. < 1326439619 374453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks :( < 1326439634 142979 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it'll pass on its own. Sometimes that happens. < 1326439641 301161 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1326439728 790601 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes I think "this might be an ingrown fingernail" and then the thing passes on its own. < 1326439732 519790 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326439743 731196 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a subtle hint that the previous topic is less pleasant than an ingrown fingernail < 1326439769 710069 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the previous topic was *more* pleasant than an ingrown fingernail, come to think of it. < 1326439784 7003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I'm going to suffer, why not share it with the rest of you? < 1326439791 692385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not share it with wli < 1326439878 451680 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a place where I can ask experts questions about category theory without bothering to figure out anything about category theory, including what my question means? < 1326439892 763496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the answer "#haskell"? < 1326439910 461954 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is probably "don't". < 1326439979 31198 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean probably the best reason to take a pay cut for a job using Haskell specifically < 1326439988 335114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it's a proxy for the kind of people you'll be working with < 1326440020 532532 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the dollar value there is pretty low < 1326440084 896934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how much it tells you versus being extra attentive during the process of interview etc. < 1326440104 239687 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think it's much more valuable in the other direction, for companies assessing candidates) < 1326440106 220040 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Also, much more relevant if you're working in the office. < 1326440107 878109 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in this case it's not just "the kind of people" but a specific group of people in particular. < 1326440133 876228 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326440243 813677 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why more relevant if you're working in the office? < 1326440296 377648 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "kind of people" i mean that they're probably pretty smart and have some respect for sophisticated and unconventional approaches, stuff like that < 1326440309 382061 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really like the personality aspect < 1326440350 447325 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of stuff that is relevant if you're working together on some code, whether or not you're in the same physical location < 1326440420 164616 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326440450 12595 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you can infer that much about personality from someone's choice of programming language < 1326440468 674904 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for Lisp of course < 1326440485 768964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326440498 279996 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp programmers are all geniuses from a higher plane of existence, tragically misunderstood in this brutal, unenlightened era < 1326440528 552345 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326440554 966512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :destined to die young and crazy of syphilis, like the great painters and writers < 1326440566 198822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also doomed to die rich. < 1326440571 691898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326440578 441561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hackers are painters/writers < 1326440587 31508 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying rich is super nega-cred for those folks < 1326440601 726004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're supposed to die poor and then have your art become ultra-valuable hundreds of years later < 1326440603 850032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what about Paul Graham? < 1326440610 188872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, right. Do as I say, not as I do. < 1326440621 965389 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326441615 682038 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326444076 212188 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326445152 810852 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326445616 823307 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326445944 164111 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326445945 866228 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-51.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326447251 476078 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326447273 502013 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326448155 519384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of a thing that in some PDF files, evince has replaced capital-sigma sum signs with large dots. This is not the first such file I've seen. < 1326449323 140122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326449331 679115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 03:36:38 2012. < 1326449341 199313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick, fucker. < 1326449372 609369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326449381 323488 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my, is that my IP address? < 1326449383 372583 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No.) < 1326449401 57722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "My, nickfucker." < 1326449708 185533 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my oh my < 1326449713 194478 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickfuckers can only mean trouble < 1326449771 359404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:09:38: i was talking about this in #haskell-blah but wli took over with his AMERIKKKA rants so now y'all get to hear about it < 1326449781 166522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm so glad I didn't listen to you when you told me to join -blah. < 1326449829 55568 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326449833 715801 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FASCIST < 1326449844 481006 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION expected to be asleep a couple of hours ago.
< 1326449845 965807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1326449846 917284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kmc < 1326449858 341341 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "expected" I mean "planned but didn't really expect". < 1326449870 611564 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326449929 890847 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION flails
< 1326449930 89836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should pay someone to knock you unconscious at a prearranged time. < 1326449932 153639 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAP CRAP CRAP < 1326449937 377840 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run under valgrind? No segfault < 1326449941 192641 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run without valgrind? Segfault < 1326449942 443064 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll be happy to pay you to do that. < 1326449943 203364 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heisingbug... :( < 1326449957 229603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Okay. My going rate is $2,000/knockout. < 1326449959 404352 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Does valgrind report errors? < 1326449966 131730 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I'm going to examine that < 1326449969 642758 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have these wooden nickels... < 1326449996 484499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: [Hilarious Monkey Island quote I'm too tired to think of.] < 1326450011 712948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Mayan calendar, 2012 is suppose to be a year of deep cleansing and rebirth for the world. In this spirit, I’ve been branching out into new fields and broadening my conceptual view of software development." < 1326450013 786320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Mayans. < 1326450016 57445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thayans. < 1326450082 914096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have these nickel woodens < 1326450085 344961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely useless < 1326450174 942118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wickel noodens < 1326450176 971454 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why am I not on that list? < 1326450192 83080 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shachaf, IRC idling genius" < 1326450250 714504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah i lolled at that post < 1326450253 991360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, what list? < 1326450269 611319 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From the post you just quoted. < 1326450286 488886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I didn't actually read beyond that. < 1326450305 313914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's literally just a list of people who use functional languages? < 1326450307 876219 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks for nothing, elliott. Thfnelliott. < 1326450325 46332 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it also has Haskell B. Curry. < 1326450366 67400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He programmed in ML. < 1326450379 674473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like how Jesus was Jewish. < 1326450392 330746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:21:59: Nohjf < 1326450392 529523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:22:01: Niughji < 1326450392 529713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:22:02: Night < 1326450395 2329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :godrijgromorngoirdg < 1326450398 566277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mogirdg nogidr < 1326450399 913885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1326450409 750350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ieelieiote < 1326450413 609244 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoe eihgleiont < 1326450415 870613 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi helioent < 1326450416 147023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:26:49: I may have an ingrown fingernail. < 1326450417 648201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi heliot < 1326450419 517379 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326450419 782715 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He programmed in ML like how Jesus was Jewish? < 1326450424 782758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought that wasn't possible. < 1326450428 107445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ais said that wasn't possible. < 1326450436 846076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys i like haskell and fp, i have nothing to say about it, just wanted you all to know < 1326450438 257971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes. < 1326450469 461247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Here's my spj shrine *strokes framed photo lovingly* < 1326450480 620777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why haven't I set up an SPJ shrine yet? < 1326450486 36361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like #1 on my list of things to do. < 1326450531 504968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:43:21: you're supposed to die poor and then have your art become ultra-valuable hundreds of years later < 1326450542 839654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which is why you should found a startup that everybody hates and is lost to the mists of time < 1326450549 974356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure that the servers keep running when you die < 1326450554 51964 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname < 1326450562 120837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a few hundreds of years everyone will rediscover it and it'll become the talk of the web2.0sphere < 1326450572 591654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :artist style(tm) < 1326450594 299978 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :web2.0 in hundreds of years? < 1326450602 691496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't they moved on to web a billion point oh by then < 1326450610 559528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no its classique < 1326450616 913679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Father of Haskell foundations" hahaha i didn't even < 1326450618 878961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that part < 1326450619 403754 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a special sphere < 1326450625 27119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for web2.0 archaeologists < 1326450680 593801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has their own sphere in the future < 1326450717 169236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, you got that post from /r/haskell. < 1326450720 925192 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it has 4 points. < 1326450742 781434 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do some experiments on how bad I can make posts before they get downvoted on /r/haskell. < 1326450753 110757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm balancing the satisfaction of commenting with something like "You forgot to add the content." and the chance that it'll make people think I'm a jerk and not upvote me on SO. < 1326450773 51277 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's why you make the second account. < 1326450781 709722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8834582/is-haskell-a-lisp-dialect ;; this question got 3 upvotes < 1326450789 937090 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, people upvote jerks on SO. < 1326450802 358188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8829194/why-are-types-with-no-data-constructors-valid ;; this one got 10 < 1326450856 788359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that typedefs can shadow variable names in C? < 1326450876 850951 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo; void v() { typedef int foo; ... } < 1326450887 719540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Isn't that what causes that context-sensitive bit? < 1326450900 625286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Waterstones, the bookshop, has dropped the apostrophe in its trading name and logo, sparking outrage among some of its customers. < 1326450900 787323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's just plain wrong", said John Richards, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society" < 1326450923 372359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its just plain wrong", wrote John Richard's, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society" < 1326450930 278557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'Society < 1326450939 952009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its just plain wrong", wrote John Richard's, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection *'Society" < 1326450950 42468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to go with S'ociety, but that's all right too. < 1326450968 795951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ch'man < 1326450974 687881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o' th' < 1326450989 352602 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN YOU FIND ALL OCCURENCES OF THE LTTER S IN THIS SENTENCE? IF YOU FIND ALL SIX, YOUR IQ IS AT LEAST 400 < 1326450997 339537 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'postraph' 'rotectin' < 1326451008 71993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apo'strophe < 1326451018 568961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thanks for the trophe" --apo < 1326451061 567151 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apostrophe, named after the apostles of Jesus Christ. < 1326451088 709126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326451089 695010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-51.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326451171 231535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't know much C I shall upvote you, but from what I DO know; WHY not use C++ instead? You'll just have your instance of a pushbutton, and call functions from within it, Instead of having 430983852 different functions in a really messy API. Tidyness disappears. However, for those of you who are experienced in both C and C++, what is the benefits of programming like a nutcracker (in C) ? < 1326451171 619250 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Of course, for the single-constructor, single-item cases, newtype is preferred over data." < 1326451190 930094 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326451193 389619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't. I already held back the tears. < 1326451195 338665 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nutcracker? < 1326451205 553136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if i suddenly say something really weird it's a quote < 1326451211 214997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's me < 1326451212 3207 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got that, but? < 1326451214 531779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326451221 975459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/oek2t/any_interest_in_a_c_binding_to_wxwidgets_from/c3gp4si < 1326451231 309961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpretation is left to the reader < 1326451320 427583 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to write a preprocessor for GHC that replaces all instances of "data" with "newtype" if the file remains valid. < 1326451383 251720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I bet the author of that comment thinks that "newtype" exists as a separate keyword for historical reasons. :( < 1326451461 922227 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From today, 430983852 will be known as "the C++ overhead constant". < 1326452735 155186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326453011 808362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326453119 34372 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : everyone has their own sphere in the future < 1326453122 465350 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, a thousand times < 1326453202 935054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: deep < 1326453209 496645 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, it's literally just a list of people who use functional languages? elliott: No, it also has Haskell B. Curry. shachaf: He programmed in ML. < 1326453216 617225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant because Haskell was the first functional language < 1326453228 473547 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML is "almost-functional" < 1326453239 70372 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :source: _Gentle Introduction to Haskell 98_, chapter 1 < 1326453419 59818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : CAN YOU FIND ALL OCCURENCES OF THE LTTER S IN THIS SENTENCE? IF YOU FIND ALL SIX, YOU HAVE LUPUS < 1326453632 335662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I wouldn't really call ML functional either. I guess I'm a zealot. < 1326453638 375887 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, irc is hard real time < 1326453656 665397 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is real, hard time < 1326453659 487747 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for computer hacking) < 1326453676 987519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a language can't be considered functional unless it uses {- -} for multi-line comments < 1326453683 105433 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should be trivially obvious to the most casual observer < 1326453705 377653 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in college we had a house office named Most Casual Observer) < 1326453714 342126 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(their job was to observe things casually and thus know all) < 1326453729 464848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i wonder how the {--} syntax came abou < 1326453729 783632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1326453760 293704 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it combines the worst bits of imperative programming languages, that we don't have a use for any more < 1326453763 282411 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} and -- < 1326453770 745501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326453808 731673 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they represent a pair of dwarvish fire-daggers < 1326453816 548203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should be trivially obvious to the most casual observer < 1326453823 119082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most causal observer. < 1326453845 854206 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :together they cast a powerful Spell of Warding +5 which prevents execution of the code by any compiler with armor class 12 or lower < 1326454003 642844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: All Witchaloks are hermaphroditic androgynites. < 1326454004 1257 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, no, man... i forgot. i've got some mashed potatoes over here, it means you're a math teacher. < 1326454026 263188 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another benefit is that you can write {-∗-} should you need to represent Darth Vader's TIE Fighter Advanced x1 within Haskell source code < 1326454067 617523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the ideal comment syntax is smalltalks" < 1326454085 90686 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, the Gentle Introduction does say that ML and Scheme are "almost-functional" < 1326455106 442666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Alas, GHC 7.0 still cannot handle equality superclasses: < 1326455106 604911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Rep t ~ rep < 1326455109 168712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not again! < 1326455156 340524 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas and alack < 1326455192 593695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326455218 184782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is way too difficult < 1326455422 803876 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in newer GHC < 1326455444 532811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blomg < 1326455460 373359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please send me messages so I don't look like an idiot again. < 1326455498 507353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Hi. < 1326455498 956544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326455508 911069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1326455509 349315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326455513 307553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1326455513 846441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 15s ago: Hi. < 1326455742 590429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot u suck < 1326455743 3570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1326455782 189820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell me something new < 1326455782 749982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326455783 118689 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T PANTS THESE AREN'T THE BALLS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR < 1326455790 622156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many messages "me" has. < 1326456028 434133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me's not an allowed nick, is it? < 1326456067 370210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information on me (account spb): blah blah blah. < 1326456070 802552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's someone else's. < 1326456493 319887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever it is, they have MemoServ set up to prevent them getting sent anything. < 1326456506 511717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* me :Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable < 1326456516 198246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they haven't been seen for 40 weeks in any case. < 1326456519 59324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott_ < 1326456521 490758 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456522 44351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456526 788520 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :ehird < 1326456528 130927 :ehird!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456528 670091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456530 595244 :ehird!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1326456543 220778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :Phantom__Hoover < 1326456545 43638 :Phantom__Hoover!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456545 492570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456547 916813 :Phantom__Hoover!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1326456564 913523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does lambdabot deal with ident stuff? < 1326456636 352727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1326456707 349707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't used the "me" nick in 40 weeks, you mean; the account is online right now. < 1326456765 413272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The owner of "you" similarly hasn't used you in 62 weeks. < 1326456777 293388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking nicknames for punnery or such. < 1326456946 828371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326456965 357874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle try < 1326456965 848177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException try :: IO a -> IO (Either Exception a) < 1326456966 10415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Error try :: IO a -> IO (Either IOError a) < 1326456966 10604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a) < 1326457033 914445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying times. < 1326457100 177255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reads < 1326457101 312987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1326457122 543541 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see an example of there being more than one element in the list
< 1326457332 343561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1326457403 550421 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326457404 843293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is try a typeclass thing then, or not? < 1326457416 571889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "a typeclass thing" < 1326457421 667859 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean < 1326457428 16916 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a typeclass method, or based on them. < 1326457441 85292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait, no, not based on them. < 1326457458 130275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those functions all independently defined, or are they parts of instances? < 1326457470 120211 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which functions? the three that hoogle mentioned? < 1326457474 710660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326457475 428415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to make an Exception instance without defining any methods, somehow < 1326457495 177014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that that doesn't mean much < 1326457496 374586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/latest/doc/html/Control-Exception.html < 1326457501 841243 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, those are independent functions. basically, three different generations of the exception system < 1326457504 138939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception is just < 1326457509 684275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toException :: e -> SomeException < 1326457509 980261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromException :: SomeException -> Maybe e < 1326457513 228135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, try isn't a typeclass method. < 1326457515 616903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's expected, and documented < 1326457521 590537 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I just checked that in ghci. < 1326457535 394388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, yes, but for some reason I thought that was relevant to Phantom_Hoover's question < 1326457539 295639 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it really wasn't < 1326457540 836311 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326457590 422074 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, the things need to be Typeable? < 1326457602 6709 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so in standard Haskell you have try for IOError only, and then that was generalized to a larger fixed set of exceptions (in what's now Control.OldException), and then to the extensible system in Control.Exception < 1326457616 124934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, the extensible exception system uses Typeable < 1326457744 134499 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically exceptions are dynamically typed < 1326457750 495391 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and catching does a run-time type check < 1326457773 120918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The use of the phrase "pozycjonowanie google cottages" can be considered a little bit misleading. < 1326457787 380025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326457793 236041 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that polish or gibberish < 1326457806 351881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm glad you have correctly left alone the asd pages < 1326457808 595225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they're claerly not spam < 1326457809 597811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a foreign language from context, polish wouldn't surprise me < 1326457813 834687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Eh, the things need to be Typeable? < 1326457817 872260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to mean "positioning" in Polish < 1326457818 987363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's how the entire exception system works < 1326457819 533593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't reached them yet < 1326457841 46905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh, I'll leave them < 1326457842 726897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you unlayer the abstractions far enough, the exception system is based on comparing two strings and using unsafeCoerce if they're equal < 1326457849 337241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: gross < 1326457889 155131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything is gross if you unlayer the abstractions far enough < 1326457907 511515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but you can still define your own Typeable instances today :P < 1326457918 93271 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's unfortunate < 1326457956 603633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data a :=: b where { Refl :: a :=: a}; class TypeEq a where { typeEq :: (TypeEq b) => Maybe (a :=: b) } < 1326457961 366253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a magic deriving (TypeEq) < 1326457974 801389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we need, it would be perfectly safe ... and also really confusing < 1326457994 662290 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want things besides decidable equality < 1326458010 136374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you? I thought that's all Exception needed < 1326458011 846519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast < 1326458019 480396 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's convenient if you can order and hash TypeReps < 1326458027 151622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Typeable is useful, yeah < 1326458027 709524 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Exception doesn't need that < 1326458029 340416 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general < 1326458029 502313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Exception doesn't need it < 1326458046 335385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think it's kind of a misuse of Typeable, Exception wants dynamic typing and uses the reflection mechanism to accomplish it < 1326458093 387065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic is also implemented with Typeable, is that an abuse? < 1326458126 426399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, yes :) < 1326458131 931250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's not terrible or anything < 1326458140 50587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Typeable gives you a lot more than you need for that < 1326458144 586023 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the more useful function's name longer? < 1326458148 285146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it definitely feels like conflating two things < 1326458154 50439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1326458163 311019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic vs fromDyn < 1326458170 290797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical reasons? < 1326458170 521636 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's terrible < 1326458175 753138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDyn could easily be expressed in terms of fromDynamic < 1326458226 756187 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see your point < 1326458235 842861 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDyn dyn default = fromMaybe default (fromDynamic dyn) < 1326458257 410785 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from is now semantically saturated for me < 1326458258 29598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1326458260 723098 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from from from < 1326458323 952113 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic (Dynamic t v) = case unsafeCoerce v of r | t == typeOf r -> Just r | otherwise -> Nothing < 1326458337 658582 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a fun tangle < 1326458526 125064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: haha is that seriously the implementation? < 1326458529 372068 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326458538 904330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funtangled particles. < 1326458540 94527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that scares me, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to type unsafeCoerce until I'm safely in the right branch < 1326458563 884374 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's pretty sketchy < 1326458581 679653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i wonder if Dynamic is actually more efficient than an existential these days < 1326458590 830625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess (a -> TypeRep) is a bit heavier than TypeRep < 1326458609 219585 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, an existential with a Typeable constraint? < 1326458623 309151 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1326458623 565827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326458631 628803 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write abenchmark < 1326458634 191086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i was told it's a deliberate optimisation of that < 1326458643 940975 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326458652 151163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :benchmarks? meh, that's work, and I might be proven wrong < 1326458663 89460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to sit here and make people think i'm smart for having seen the better way < 1326458670 398342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bravo < 1326458697 478079 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better use some hash tables too, I hear they're O(1) < 1326458721 369129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) EVERYTHING < 1326458733 49924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find :: (a -> Bool) -> HashTable k a -> Maybe a -- O(1) < 1326458753 172273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes the argument order of that
< 1326458788 342335 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I once yell at Factor for its sensitivity to argument order? And for the endless required imports? < 1326458792 207258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Haskell does both < 1326458795 717183 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326458814 79324 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Haskell is the best language < 1326458827 188516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sensitivity to argument order"? < 1326458828 44895 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sensitivity to argument order and endless required imports must somehow be virtues < 1326458854 651828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that argument order is obviously correct < 1326458859 437213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a decision about order of arguments can make a function easier or harder to use < 1326458861 788547 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna say that sensitivity to argument order makes you pay attention to something important that the Java Monkeys ignore < 1326458864 850422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really matter what < 1326458887 324952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and required imports are great for all those static analysis and refactoring tools Haskell has < 1326458905 93793 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "has" I mean "someone would have to write from scratch", but that's a matter of trivial engineering) < 1326459021 72010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, API design matters. That's a big language flaw. < 1326459065 414038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's maybe annoying in a language where curried functions (<-- I will kill anyone who objects to this terminology) aren't the standard, but when they are it's obviously a benefit, since partial application is so common. < 1326459068 993591 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is argument order is a more significant part of the API in Haskell and Factor than it is in Python < 1326459108 526297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatedly, I consider it a /good/ thing if functions with 5+ arguments are a pain to use; it's a sign you should be factoring out those arguments into data types, or taking a more combinator-based approach, etc. (Although the record hack is acceptable for interfacing with foreign libraries at a low level.) < 1326459129 835281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're really grumpy. < 1326459156 411923 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I love how the Haskell standard libraries got API design wrong so often < 1326459159 337846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good thing that because < 1326459164 510549 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.lookup < 1326459165 540488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1326459168 940724 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Map.lookup < 1326459170 19557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall k a. (Ord k) => k -> M.Map k a -> Maybe a < 1326459175 276517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They did? < 1326459185 143919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t head < 1326459185 642361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the correct way around. < 1326459186 195576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> a < 1326459194 732038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I may be grumpy but I'm right, and that's all that counts on The Internet < 1326459207 663404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't consider it a rationalisation of a language flaw; I have no real vested interest in making people think Haskell is good. < 1326459228 277019 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which "record hack"? the one where your function takes a big record, and you provide a default value for that record, and callers can use record-update syntax? < 1326459237 21900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: head is evil; what's that got to do with Map.lookup? < 1326459246 832050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why's head evil. < 1326459248 748018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326459251 53252 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [] < 1326459252 63803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list < 1326459254 532878 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :head is evil is a separate example of bad API design < 1326459260 228041 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup < 1326459260 984862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1326459262 115879 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much bad API design in Prelude < 1326459273 890226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes. It's a blatant hack, and it's awful, but if you want to interface with something that uses keyword arguments or whatever at a low level... < 1326459299 848005 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you explain what makes it a "blatant hack" and "awful"? < 1326459301 43119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'd usually just bind N-parameter-for-huge-N functions directly, since they're almost always from languages without keyword arguments, anyway (since almost all languages don't have keyword arguments). < 1326459310 347713 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it preferred to make a function that takes the object immediately, so you could try different keys with the partially applied function, etc? < 1326459318 824240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that trick and I don't see what it has to do with "interfacing with foreign libraries at a low level" < 1326459332 607833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're misinterpreting me. < 1326459340 319835 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's common to have a procedure with a bunch of customizable behavior, for which most callers only want to change a few parts < 1326459345 976976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that the trick exists to do such interfacing. < 1326459362 129489 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying it's gross and has cooties and should only be used when touching the unclean terrible world of anything not Haskell < 1326459374 950734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawn
< 1326459375 887123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1326459381 986323 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a hack and awful < 1326459384 355803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to bother if you're just going to twist everything I say into "HASKELL R AWSUM". < 1326459403 735404 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326459421 354683 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm going to continue to use this "blatant hack" in APIs i design < 1326459437 129017 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I see a problem with it or someone points one out to me < 1326459441 360232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're fine with that, so am i < 1326459454 37633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't see why you're blowing a parenthical remark in a completely different context out of proportion... < 1326459520 471945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do consider most uses of the record thing a hack, and I do think it's fairly awful, but I was talking about it in a completely different context to the use-case you suggested. < 1326459541 236950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : why is it a hack and awful < 1326459554 481460 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which context? < 1326459573 766580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just keep saying it's bad without explaining why < 1326459615 397482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The context I was talking about is the awkwardness of using functions with a large number of parameters (which a lot of people think explicitly named arguments like in Smalltalk (not overriding-defaults style like in Python or whatever) alleviates). < 1326459637 613111 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326459698 115687 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that functions with a large number of required parameters are bad < 1326459706 69243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For representing something like a Smalltalk-named-argument call, a record with a default is supremely ugly because you have to use "undefined" or whatever as a default, and failing to specify an argument is just silently accepted. < 1326459736 908338 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about using Nothings as a default? < 1326459741 125751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that a lot of the procedure-with-a-bunch-of-customisable-behaviour situations can be done more nicely combinator-style or similarly, but records-with-defaults are fine for such configuration. < 1326459745 498039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly it's ugly to call, but still < 1326459756 907478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That doesn't solve anything, since the underlying function will have to fromJust them. < 1326459778 190970 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, when all the things should be required? < 1326459783 107363 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't provide a default then < 1326459798 473306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, SomeRecord {} fills things in with undefined? < 1326459800 50071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326459807 552177 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, at least GHC will warn though < 1326459818 20543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, my main point was that a lot of people point to e.g. an OpenGL or Win32 call with a billion parameters and say "look how much cleaner this would be if we you named arguments; therefore it's a language flaw not to have them", but in reality those functions have more like 3 parameters, it's just that those parameters are data-types left implicit because of limited abstraction facilities. < 1326459830 476128 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326459836 655621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sometimes it's even that one function is doing the work of five because of limited composability, etc. < 1326459855 330361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having named arguments simplifies the language and discourages such things. Of course you have to make up for it with sufficient abstractional facilities. < 1326459868 181976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glLoadMatrix16(float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float) < 1326459889 494552 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the record trick is fine (not perfect) when you want to selectively override defaults < 1326459890 572999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a real example? :D < 1326459894 665697 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1326459896 851986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326459924 437491 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while i worked on a C++ codebase where one of the most important classes had a constructor like this: < 1326459941 655507 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing::Thing(Foo, const Bar*, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool) < 1326459952 409529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those bools had default values; some were true and some were false < 1326459978 905516 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you had to be careful because the order would change between development and production branches, as new features were merged < 1326459982 798958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the class called Thing too? < 1326459985 477903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326459986 790349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326459987 831080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a situation where named parameters beats a properly designed abstraction. < 1326459996 936552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: naming parameters < 1326460024 86244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's better at that I suppose. < 1326460024 811062 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, overriding default settings < 1326460034 784360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile data structures are better at naming record fields. < 1326460035 920162 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example how would you replace this with a "properly designed abstraction"? http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/concorde/0.1/doc/html/Algorithms-Concorde-LinKern.html#t:Config < 1326460047 279604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326460047 442162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder: is this for beginn...@haskell.org ?) < 1326460047 442346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toA_IO = openFile (dir "toA") WriteMode :: IO Handle < 1326460047 442452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromA_IO = openFile (dir "fromA") ReadMode < 1326460047 442559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- used as global values < 1326460047 782652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toA = unsafePerformIO toA_IO -- < 1326460049 786701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromA = unsafePerformIO fromA_IO -- < 1326460051 786512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326460053 790243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for beginners < 1326460060 497899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?\)/?)\n[...]\n/ < 1326460076 921130 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, maybe what you meant by "properly designed abstraction" is in fact a record like this < 1326460082 281343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1326460082 443525 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it's much of an abstraction < 1326460096 200498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: defConfig is your default parameter set < 1326460098 153939 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hodgepodge of all the ways you can change the behavior of 'tsp' < 1326460099 724414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: TBH I'd probably represent that like... < 1326460116 34857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, similarly, I guess. But with a Monoid interface. < 1326460122 412840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't really buy you all that much in this situation, though. < 1326460127 284991 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language with default keyword args I probably wouldn't define a separate type < 1326460133 75567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do I actually want a Monoid interface there. < 1326460133 938900 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity's sake < 1326460147 19954 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Monoid instance is sometimes useful; I think it's dubious here < 1326460148 560369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, I think that's actually preferable to named parameters. < 1326460151 106774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can pass around Configs. < 1326460160 765672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gluProject(GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, const GLdouble *, const GLdouble *, const GLint *, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*). (Okay, so last three are just output parameters; they pretty consistently take 4x4 matrices as pointers, and only go up to 4-vectors as separate parameters.) < 1326460172 251579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SO ELEGANT. < 1326460172 861859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the function user it's not a huge difference. To the implementor it's a bit more work to define a data type and a default constructor. < 1326460181 138143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, you can, but you usually don't need to < 1326460187 773458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "default constructor"? you have to specify the defaults anyway :P < 1326460196 814949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1326460201 430242 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an airplane is better than a car because it can also fly < 1326460203 109224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just abit more typing is all. < 1326460212 378686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why 4-vectors? < 1326460213 48975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If you used more-notation, I think you could specify the defaults inline with the fields. < 1326460214 544011 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the airplane is harder to build and more expensive ;P < 1326460215 896912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same amount of information though, I suppose. (except you also need types in a statically typed language of course) < 1326460224 142117 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :M O R E N O T A T I O N < 1326460227 904478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has OpenGL cornered the 4D gaming market while I wasn't looking? < 1326460235 857134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326460238 364937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GLint gluUnProject4(GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, const GLdouble *, const GLdouble *, const GLint, GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*); /* real function */ < 1326460240 423379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_more-notation#Fields_in_record_syntax < 1326460240 585529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick kmc < 1326460242 444317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Homogenous coordinates. < 1326460247 925152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326460253 849313 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, perspective transformation is linear with homogeneous coordinates < 1326460270 769227 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that (x, y, z, w) represents the 3D point (x/w, y/w, z/w) < 1326460283 986613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for the cases in Python where a function basically treats its parameter set as a hash table you'd use some equivalent mapping structure. < 1326460285 188746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, I droppeded one star. < 1326460325 714065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with some vectors where w=1 and then get something else < 1326460332 976207 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and renormalize them before you draw them < 1326460364 174786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can't, for the life of me, figure out how named parameters are supposed t work in conjunction with currying. < 1326460365 249575 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe this corresponds to 3D projective space, where the extra "point at infinity" is (anything, anything, anything, 0) < 1326460490 157529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other minor issues that could be amended are that named parameters require you to know the names of parameters. In Haskell these are lovely things such as "m f g h x y z". Also, currently documentation doesn't list parameter names and doing so look pretty ugly in most cases. < 1326460492 810838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's a "sphere at infinity" with antipodal points made the same; there's a difference between (1, 0, 0, 0) and (0, 1, 0, 0) even though they're both "at infinity". < 1326460508 347596 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326460510 128245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (1, 0, 0, 0) and (-1, 0, 0, 0) are the same thing. < 1326460515 131360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are problems with introducing a language feature into an existing codebase rather than problems with the feature itself. < 1326460526 147982 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326460543 134749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why the fuck am i amending my answer to help this guy, their accept rate is 33% < 1326460557 558049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DO IT < 1326460559 973818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I bet you didn't even LOOK at that more-notation link. < 1326460571 869788 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've seen the more notation... < 1326460594 352417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, but did you know it can simplify default parameter records?! < 1326460604 300874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as if it's ten different notations in one! < 1326460610 55167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins writing a proposal for "not enough" notation
< 1326460612 119413 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too early to understand this < 1326460619 777052 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was there in #haskell when zzo38 first arrived < 1326460636 323328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can thank me for that. < 1326460640 89359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326460654 648839 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have a better understanding of all the ways Haskell is unlike INFORM 7 and Magic: the Gathering < 1326460664 303531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many ways, is the answer! < 1326460739 310650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the projective plane is the R^2 plus one "point at infinity" for each class of parallel lines, so that the added points form a single "line at infinity". The Riemann sphere is the version where there's a plane and a single point. < 1326460792 410855 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that makes some sense < 1326460797 206936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHAT IF YOU COULD PUT THE DEFAULT VALUES IN THE RECORD SYNTAX < 1326460809 913701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data REcord = { x :: Foo = YEAAAAh } < 1326460850 809507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1326460851 362177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... GArrowSum is confusing, I don't think it lets you actually have a conditional < 1326460854 227896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes it does duh < 1326460854 499456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it this < 1326460863 569891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data REcord = { x = YEAAAAh :: Foo } < 1326460865 177138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if you could say that the things in the record have no defaults < 1326460870 808962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the :: could be omitted because of type inference. < 1326460873 565631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Record {} is a compile-time error < 1326460884 868508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that would be the default, sir. < 1326460894 403832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default is to have no defaults. :P < 1326460904 189770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you did not click the more notation link < 1326460911 422464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not < 1326460914 926329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it involve the "more" keyword? < 1326460936 963866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason I didn't click is that gnome-terminal's link regex breaks on colons < 1326460954 922166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to click it I would have to actually DRAG AND DROP MY MOUSE CURSOR OVER IT AND COPY AND PASTE IT MANUALLY < 1326460957 776656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1326461000 556887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sleep
< 1326461059 900221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also the homogenous coordinates are nice because when all your vectors are normalized [x y z 1]^T vectors you can do translation (and any affine operations) by multiplying with a 4x4 matrix [x x x x; x x x x; x x x x; 0 0 0 1] to get another [x' y' z' 1]^T, so you can just concatenate sequences of translations and rotations and whatever by multiplying them all up. < 1326461338 15678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once I have a working implementation of portal chess I'll start working on a generic interface to define chess games with arbitrary pieces, movement rules, starting positions, etc.. and have that available as a different module. < 1326461397 726252 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461398 91958 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326461398 254414 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461424 994240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure but I /think/ type families would be useful for this. < 1326461427 645360 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461442 544931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't seem to find anything that'd take >13 parameters, though gluLookAt takes 9 doubles in a row (three 3-vectors), which is at least nice and uniform. < 1326461584 464000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461604 427570 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461686 252762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The "sum is denoted by ●" was one thing, but this thing-as-seen-by-evince also has limits as "N → °", and it's not talking about zero there. < 1326461697 860274 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461698 82074 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326461698 244663 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461701 687420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creator: dvipsk 5.58f Copyright 1986, 1994 Radical Eye Software < 1326461701 849559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Producer: Acrobat Distiller Command 3.01 for Solaris 2.3 and later (SPARC) < 1326461707 316684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to blame Adobe here. < 1326461855 573031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you render that white dot on white paper? < 1326461880 682445 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461912 499629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in fact all of that text is white < 1326461915 848679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it jujst going to be invisible? < 1326461919 77253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326461983 640749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The "sum is denoted by 1,0●" was one thing, but this thing-as-seen-by-evince also has limits as "1,0N → °", and it's not talking about zero there. < 1326462007 578456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooh < 1326462008 628819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I see. < 1326462011 298569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleasing to the eyes. < 1326462110 860006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think type-directed name resolution isn't too terrible of an idea < 1326462112 266027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem < 1326462116 969058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it needs a better name. < 1326462134 866223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's playing "how many ways can we overload . ? " game < 1326462138 206618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+the < 1326462148 155191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I should've s/(●|N → °)/1,0$1/g instead.) < 1326462312 438317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326462341 44371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ' weren't already an identifier character, record'field would be a good alternative to using . < 1326462342 255221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462342 417925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462342 418093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I don't know how to use it for my problem : I want somthing like this: loadfunction = do { x <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction y <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction } – user606521 10 mins ago < 1326462342 755617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462344 760121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462346 769892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I don't know how to use it for my problem : I want somthing like this: loadfunction = do { x <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction y <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction otherfunction x y } I dont know how to do it using your anserws... – user606521 2 mins ago < 1326462350 740247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1326462353 314220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Should I bother? < 1326462381 52925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sounds easy enough. just talk about read and catch. < 1326462405 653752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::):):):):) < 1326462408 707360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8850299/catching-errors-during-string-parsing < 1326462423 964052 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326462431 163320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay < 1326462443 300373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think about record'field for TDNR? < 1326462461 243521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to bother.
< 1326462463 226312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ugly < 1326462483 3886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately all the non-ugly symbols are taken. < 1326462538 640222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for, you know, all of those unicode characters) < 1326462658 861316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I know < 1326462664 163456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-breaking space could indicate TDNR < 1326462666 625015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326462895 165411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326462901 896254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is the best choice aside from . < 1326462919 720227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't really break anything (how many people put a ' in the middle of a variable name?) and doesn't look very bad. < 1326463037 768984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks don't < 1326463053 333473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit... < 1326463068 983745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lal0nde.deviantart.com/art/problem-sleuth-279003657 < 1326463070 34148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1326463074 200208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be moddable < 1326463137 19710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're banned from ever naming another variable "eVal" < 1326463168 780501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326463170 396332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the guy < 1326463171 272766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326463191 52047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's banned forever. < 1326463361 735060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@C.A.McCann: How can you sleep when there's rep to be gained?! :) – ehird Jan 8 at 18:51 < 1326463361 896897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326463367 933145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha < 1326463370 388362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1326463370 550824 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1326463690 987617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8793736/haskell-to-javascript-compilers/8793958#8793958 < 1326463698 376412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw there's also Selenium bindings for Haskell. < 1326463709 698818 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Update grating, and Cheesy A! I'm Number A, not IM. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326463713 750849 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha < 1326463715 725322 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1326463730 757571 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Update grating, and Cheesy A! I'm Number A, not IM. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326463886 365441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i don't think selenium is relevant. < 1326463945 194323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as relevant as Ji.. < 1326463980 414297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1326463992 177161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be if you make incorrect assumptions about what Ji does, though. < 1326464034 811277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it lets a Haskell server control a browser connected to it via AJAX." < 1326464067 506260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call you an idiot in T-10, T-9... < 1326464107 118386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This happens because you deliberately ignore people rather than, say, doing something as simple as clicking a link to clarify your impression after someone points out that you're wrong. < 1326464246 345310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that's why I was ignoring you. < 1326464305 838868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because I call you an idiot after I point out you're wrong and you continue to insist you're not rather than doing the most cursory research. < 1326464318 957332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, selenium is always relevant. < 1326464339 739879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I discovered how I was wrong. happy? < 1326464350 747392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When people who aren't me say "no, that's not related", they usually mean "You clearly know more than me about what both of these things do. Please, quote something I said back at me." < 1326464369 787815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sorry, I hate life and everyone and existence. < 1326464433 199918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how any of what I did implied that I think I "know more about something" < 1326464447 402680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, I was just quoting you... to show you where I got that impression. < 1326464448 850777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1326464450 80670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1326464586 994306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh < 1326464596 823594 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got a terrible thought for API design < 1326465611 132598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it is always better to work continuously over the course of the term, rather than in discrete bursts around the time of examinations." < 1326465619 162077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILLY PROFESSOR AND YOUR MATH HUMOR < 1326466178 180278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, back < 1326466185 522529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a fun seminar < 1326466192 622560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we spent a whole hour talking about call-by-name < 1326466201 385137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then another 40 minutes after the seminar talking about product types < 1326466219 445084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see #nomic < 1326466464 419307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326466628 651290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 can you actually talk about product types alone for 40 minutes? < 1326466628 849850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326467883 559874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png < 1326467888 613374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd's family tree. < 1326468087 437888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Undirected_6_cycle.svg Phantom_Hoover's family tree < 1326468099 913900 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: especially as all discrete bursts have measure zero. < 1326468134 227763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also known as the Hexagon of Hoover. < 1326468274 162026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png < 1326468281 688710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Every time I see this I just grin and gawp at it. < 1326468291 89555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they're optimising for inbreeding. < 1326468337 583660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the way that the guy has exactly five ancestors who weren't inbred there. < 1326468370 508465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (The comments on the SO question whose reddit thread I presume you found that in are really annoying.) < 1326468377 911351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are. < 1326468394 86861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This might be one of those cases where you need to ask yourself: Do I really want to make business with that guy?" INCEST IN FAMILY TREES HAS LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENED, JUST IGNORE IT < 1326468418 968166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in this case, the complainer /was/ a man who said he'd had two children with his daughter. < 1326468431 555307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man with money to spend on family tree software!!! < 1326468435 786395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPITALISM: the movie < 1326468463 906586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What the guy should have asked is how to handle nodes that can be reached via two or more distinct paths. Every family tree has cases like this (no exceptions)." < 1326468472 252818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Undirected_6_cycle.svg Phantom_Hoover's family tree < 1326468474 76392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um excuse me what do you say to Cain and Abel?? < 1326468485 267384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the vertices are Phantom_Hoover. < 1326468498 167114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326468511 647902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Complete_graph_K7.svg < 1326468515 143747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's family tree. < 1326468533 117251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326468650 18112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326468704 569538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1326468708 100446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326468708 616739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326468710 309028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid connection < 1326468728 702522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can talk about product types for 40 minutes < 1326468752 177790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it was in the context of impure languages < 1326468778 703777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, we were debating the expression that in ICA would be written as "print(1);(2,3)" < 1326468804 985269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could write something similar in various other impure CBN languages, but there aren't a whole lot of those in existence) < 1326468825 939312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both in call-by-name, and in call-by-value < 1326469132 477028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ICA < 1326469176 704500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immaculate Conception Academy-Greenhills, an elite private all-girls Chinese school in Greenhills, San Juan, Metro Manila, Philippines. (Not to be confused with ICA Manila (ICAM) or ICA Dasmariñas) < 1326469218 79526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Council on Archives <--- aka elliott < 1326469315 776233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EgyptianPtolemies2.jpg < 1326469322 250526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd's other family tree. < 1326469357 272022 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus Christ, the most recent new stock in that family tree is Antiochus III. < 1326469363 958349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive pedigree < 1326469368 117878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: idealized concurrent algol < 1326469375 84980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right up until Caesar and Antony. < 1326469382 624899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note how Antiochus III of Syria manages to birth Cleopatra I by himself < 1326469385 443001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive. < 1326469416 995319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleopatra VII's family were completely inbred for 5 generations. < 1326469446 361034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to interpret these family relations.... < 1326469467 671268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what happened to Ptolomy, the son, the sequel. < 1326469510 993596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example what is the relationship between Ptolomey XIII and Cleopatra VII... they appear to be brother and sister twice. < 1326469536 39396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They married, you dolt. < 1326469545 224817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is marriage but being brother and sister twice? < 1326469558 292554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just didn't have any children, which is not exactly surprising given the circumstances. < 1326469572 375088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry it looked strange. < 1326469583 154305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleopatra wasn't lined up with all the others < 1326469592 886610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the elbow line didn't register as "marriage" at that point < 1326469612 798164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charles II clearly got the short end of the homozygous stick, seeing as Cleopatra isn't generally remembered as a twisted freak. < 1326469713 501671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was going to say "I wonder what the maximally inbred family would be like" and then I realised it's called LIFE. < 1326469715 415611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bisserjeta.hsara.com/2012/01/100-year-old-prostitute-still-going-strong/?article < 1326469716 282458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEP. < 1326469747 103599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what her family tree looks like. < 1326469758 42643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "surrounded by prominent politicians, businessmen, lawyers and members of the clergy, all of whom were in costume to protect their identities. “I so enjoyed lapping up their warm greetings,” she beams." Somehow I doubt this is: legit. < 1326469819 830535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1326469822 324538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how < 1326469885 139933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a completely legit site to me. < 1326470080 582685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who the audience is for this material. < 1326470114 764977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this creepily written probably fake story about a 100-year-old prostitute. < 1326470133 600245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is its purpose. < 1326470584 45495 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to play Ally Cat < 1326470596 42992 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still on my Todo list < 1326470599 110246 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Alley Cat < 1326470612 410965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ally Cat, the cat is your ally. < 1326470661 235737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am glad people take my decrees so seriously. < 1326470669 185340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least I can't imagine anyone else having told Sgeo to play Alley Cat. < 1326470685 346557 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you may have been telling someone else to play Alley Cat < 1326470691 801478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the PC version of that thing have rather horrible PC speaker beeping. < 1326470695 660381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it did. < 1326470697 62362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10/2/2011 logs < 1326470717 577652 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in October 2nd, not as in February 10th) < 1326470730 952344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in 2011-10-02. < 1326470750 313970 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:08: Sgeo|web: Play alley cat. < 1326470750 476259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:14: FOREVERRR < 1326470750 638762 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:17: elliott: on Thursday, I will < 1326470832 10156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this alley cat < 1326470876 569753 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some old game < 1326470885 749543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runWriter < 1326470886 769240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> (a, w) < 1326470894 725993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t execWriter < 1326470895 497727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> w < 1326470932 296096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, it did. < 1326470941 736388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The BEST GAME. < 1326471038 343208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CGAest game. < 1326471052 857893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t msum < 1326471053 824317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => [m a] -> m a < 1326471219 527207 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many lives do I have? < 1326471236 51810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at games < 1326471286 184379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm dead. I wasn't counting, but 9 would make sense < 1326471310 621646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1326471314 10416 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says next to cat < 1326471330 270481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait 'til Sgeo discovers you can JUMP IN THE WINDOWS. < 1326471338 622569 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows have minigames < 1326471340 291787 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326471358 284476 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only been in 1 window < 1326471365 706186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's JUST like Mario Party. Almost. < 1326471415 103018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326471417 321062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the party part. < 1326471418 646393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solo party. < 1326471420 306274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a weird clicking coming from the speakers < 1326471425 238576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326471448 171984 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, while it tries to play the music, I don't think it is the music < 1326471455 607549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's no "music". < 1326471465 288633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's patter sounds. < 1326471484 114873 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"patter sounds"? < 1326471488 705157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, feet. < 1326471506 159328 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feet that play a melody with different pitches? < 1326471533 689100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1326471547 841326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326471551 302987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the music. < 1326471596 879324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no music during gameplay, I guess, just at game over/intro screen < 1326471745 485865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326472069 548544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326472100 145056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t evalWriter < 1326472101 104942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `evalWriter' < 1326472108 74121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle evalWriter < 1326472108 481686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326472176 443610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326472289 102808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: am I actually gaining anything by defining this Storable instance and converting square data to Word16. Wouldn't it already kind of work that way internally? < 1326472308 317321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, it would be Word32 or Word64 or whatever. :P < 1326472310 253163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. < 1326472451 779068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me that it's optimizing for space over time. < 1326473064 350545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better spatial locality of the vector seems to be cancelled out by using a map... < 1326473161 549846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1326473329 711008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t succ . fromEnum $ maxBound < 1326473330 258108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1326473330 435371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Enum a' arising from a use of `fromEnum' at :1:7-14 < 1326473330 597176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Bounded a' < 1326473453 814581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a line from my IOCCC submission: echo '(find-file "./prog.c" t) (indent-region (point-min) (point-max)) (write-file "./emacs.c" t)' > reindent-prog.el < 1326473486 229189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1326473486 452936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my submission was specifically designed to confuse reindentors, so I decided to put a few reindentors in an optional part of the Makefile, so that it could easily be tested < 1326473486 948643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1326473490 970570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326473494 483940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then left it in to show the judges that I wasn't afraid of them < 1326473576 154065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, this must be some other submission to the one i saw < 1326473618 686024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you see? < 1326473628 219600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's part of the Makefile, not of the C code) < 1326473668 404920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one with a bunch of setjmps < 1326473673 674692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's the same one < 1326473674 516496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same one < 1326473687 914735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one was pretty < 1326473688 570048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1326473690 237883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Just Bool < 1326473690 769298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `Just' < 1326473691 963489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember what it looked like < 1326473693 730405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider setjmp pretty much mandatory in obfuscated C < 1326473695 166417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Maybe Bool < 1326473695 699003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Bounded (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1326473695 860821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : aris... < 1326473701 642262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: each function consists of nothing but declarations < 1326473712 871257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are very complicated expressions, overparenthesized < 1326473723 347412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indented in columns, using Lisp-style indentation for each column < 1326473739 302651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason why writing an instance for (Bounded a) => Maybe a is a bad idea? < 1326473740 595983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i see it :( i lost my copy :( < 1326473753 964975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326473754 561878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is minBound (Just minBound) or Nothing < 1326473761 82313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we're past the deadline now, so I can paste it somewhere and PM people the link < 1326473761 748140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, I would say. < 1326473768 300459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I realize that's arbitrary. < 1326473770 878431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess that's consistent with Maybe's Ord instance < 1326473775 205369 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326473781 942114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Enum < 1326473783 743785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise that there's no rule against sharing them in the first place, right? < 1326473786 782578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has an enum... < 1326473786 944951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Gregor didn't find one < 1326473790 360902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1326473794 116536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it has to be your own work < 1326473795 403382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0 :: Maybe True < 1326473795 933294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `True' < 1326473799 654536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0 :: Maybe Bool < 1326473800 159697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326473800 321463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1326473800 321620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1326473802 624292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neverminde < 1326473806 118361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just a little overprotective of it < 1326473808 782958 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even allow team submissions. < 1326473817 794887 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Publicly sharing is probably not wise though. < 1326473821 964616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think that's a change < 1326473852 634165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int r,u,y, getchar(), putchar(), b(); < 1326473993 547684 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now if only you could do int r, u, y, main() { ... }; < 1326473994 424377 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326474017 316724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that legal? it'd be awesome if it were < 1326474023 876569 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot. < 1326474039 774072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the reason I did getchar and putchar like that rather than including stdio.h is so that I could give them the wrong number of arguments < 1326474066 200435 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ... so useful ... for getchar and putchar ... ? < 1326474122 712490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra arguments don't do anything but make the code look nicer < 1326474124 930153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1326474125 625917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1326474128 7247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a free obfuscation < 1326474142 518399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a () out of context in the wrong column makes people realise the code isn't meant to be read in columns) < 1326474242 122025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where's your submission, btw? I'm interested in seeing it now the deadline's passed < 1326474242 473110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle asTypeOf < 1326474242 635206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude asTypeOf :: a -> a -> a < 1326474258 345025 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll PM < 1326474399 440940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an example of a type that is Bounded but not Enum. < 1326474431 835013 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, real numbers between -1 and 1? < 1326474443 42785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes I suppose that counts. < 1326474456 483811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then what would that look like in Haskell < 1326474571 387801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Float and Double are Enum but shouldn't be. < 1326474583 202765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're bounded. < 1326474586 850190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since IEEE has -inf and +inf. < 1326474597 95503 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1326474605 271981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326474639 365138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: More generally, you can make any type bounded like < 1326474652 104247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data WithBounds a = MinBound | Middle a | MaxBound < 1326474657 987866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't necessarily give it an Enum instance. < 1326474672 679315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You need `Ord a` for the Boudned instance to mean much, though.) < 1326474694 529098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting type. < 1326474712 885483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "free Bounded". :p < 1326474739 988108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure why he didn't generalize his gross Enum code earlier...
< 1326474771 95002 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was thinking, something like that makes more sense than your WithNegInfinity and WithPosInfinity, I think < 1326474794 416427 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not nonsensical for a lower bound to be positive infinity < 1326474809 815612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: My types were like that for a reason. < 1326474830 392998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, WithBounds didn't make sense for the usecase in question. < 1326474960 400095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what? less needs syntax highlighting < 1326474969 376765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you could just use an editor, but good editors aren't necessarily good viewers < 1326475050 221983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8850299/catching-errors-during-string-parsing < 1326475052 310271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8853896/throwing-exceptions-in-haskell-and-xderivedatatypeable < 1326475052 869249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8854471/io-string-and-io-data-type < 1326475055 180263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy < 1326475057 659868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1326475064 493270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: highlight foo | less -R < 1326475077 680754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting < 1326475101 929782 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where highlight = e.g. code2color < 1326475109 582716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an actual command highlight, it seems < 1326475113 55559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what engine it's based on < 1326475120 30464 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesspipe also has some kind of support < 1326475121 233715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think there's a program that does that actually called "highlight", which is why I said "highlight". < 1326475131 118050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, and I found it in the repos < 1326475132 600320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs it
< 1326475133 419970 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It sounded generic so I wasn't sure. :-P < 1326475139 424102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think more also does syntax highlighting, but who the fuck uses more. < 1326475143 236343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1326475143 766541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most. < 1326475145 221896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not more. < 1326475147 222101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326475162 250640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope highlight's a no-op on stuff it doesn't understand < 1326475166 471570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I could just add it into l < 1326475172 871047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into l < 1326475179 531504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :l is my ls-or-less program < 1326475186 7003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs ls or less depending on whether you give it a directory or a file < 1326475200 81536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, highlight doesn't do INTERCAL < 1326475219 795458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise less has preprocessor support built in, right? < 1326475227 513222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326475228 847661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN < 1326475230 897586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1326475242 131751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying than anything else, as it tries to interpret .doc as Word files rather than text files < 1326475242 986875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: be careful about -R, though; you won't want to do that on binary files < 1326475243 636740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and errors out < 1326475247 729071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, err, what? < 1326475252 938497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not talking about the same thing < 1326475256 647305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: less foo.doc < 1326475262 62553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives an error message "no catdoc available" < 1326475279 810582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT PREPROCESSOR < 1326475279 973073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You may define an "input preprocessor" for less. Before less opens a file, it first gives your input preprocessor a chance to modify the way the contents < 1326475279 973245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of the file are displayed. An input preprocessor is simply an executable program (or shell script), which writes the contents of the file to a different < 1326475279 973350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : file, called the replacement file. The contents of the replacement file are then displayed in place of the contents of the original file. However, it will < 1326475281 828877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : appear to the user as if the original file is opened; that is, less will display the original filename as the name of the current file. < 1326475284 821606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : An input preprocessor receives one command line argument, the original filename, as entered by the user. It should create the replacement file, and when < 1326475287 859774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : finished, print the name of the replacement file to its standard output. If the input preprocessor does not output a replacement filename, less uses the < 1326475290 832551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : original file, as normal. The input preprocessor is not called when viewing standard input. To set up an input preprocessor, set the LESSOPEN environment < 1326475293 836990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable to a command line which will invoke your input preprocessor. This command line should include one occurrence of the string "%s", which will be < 1326475296 840236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : replaced by the filename when the input preprocessor command is invoked. < 1326475298 842709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1326475304 289611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I believe it's lessopen that's responsible < 1326475314 623635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, since it just executes a script you pass it... < 1326475320 427882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pass it/specify/ < 1326475325 967486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo $LESSOPEN < 1326475327 295843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| /usr/bin/lesspipe %s < 1326475349 118531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, so since lesspipe does something wrong, you're saying LESSOPEN is to blame? < 1326475360 852300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, /bin/lesspipe (=/usr/bin/lesspipe) complains on 104 < 1326475368 317903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm saying the default value of $LESSOPEN is to blame < 1326475373 381000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant? < 1326475373 741810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's set to lesspipe < 1326475383 158797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was telling you you didn't need a wrapper script to accomplish what you want < 1326475386 267839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1326475393 44439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN="|highlight -qOxterm256 --force %s" seems to work. elliott: Thanks for the pointer to highlight, it seems to be an improvement over code2color. < 1326475398 205149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I either need to wrap less, or lesspipe < 1326475416 128982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf? < 1326475420 734808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just do what Deewiant said < 1326475428 241683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody forces you to pue lesspipe in that variable < 1326475430 981059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*put < 1326475435 237695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: np < 1326475439 42100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it processes gzip files < 1326475444 160418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a useful thing for it to do < 1326475465 923840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN="| /usr/bin/lesspipe %s | highlight -qOxterm256 --force" < 1326475466 607865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: highlight (via the libhighlight-perl bindings) is what p.zem.fi uses. < 1326475472 524522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326475490 75537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're complaining "I don't want to use LESSOPEN to accomplish this because of " < 1326475516 921419 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't recall seeing anything syntax highlighted on p.zem.fi. Which may just be due to the fact that I hardly ever see links to p.zem.fi, for obvious reasons. :-P < 1326475532 249928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is the obvious reason that Finns are blind to each other's words? < 1326475557 575074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's syntax-highlighted if you add a ".foo" to it, I've sometimes pasted a link to the highlighted version. < 1326475559 249679 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is that fizzie is the only one I know of who has write access to it. < 1326475605 307564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.c < 1326475648 919285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should use a content-disposition header on that .bin to set the filename correctly. < 1326475657 172827 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.x is ASCII but served as application/xhtml+xml < 1326475688 873922 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326475701 422728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.sybase < 1326475706 344499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I sort of forgot to handle errors there. < 1326475743 210452 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This committee is not addressing lazy programmers. < 1326475749 338137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326475763 692874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " < 1326475763 855162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXX = unsupported language: x" < 1326475766 342564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like error handling to me! < 1326475773 905939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for some values of "handling", maybe. < 1326475794 294360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"\n/"/ < 1326475804 744407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, now fizzie's line is squashed into mine. :/ < 1326475980 629356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _ = 2 in _ < 1326475981 154685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1326475987 665985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk < 1326476088 631815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thinking in typeclasses is IMO the best thing to do: it's really the most Haskellish." < 1326476096 174978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326476096 959871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting to become convinced that everyone but me is just crazy. < 1326476247 627520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, shouldn't it run less or ls | less, for consistency? < 1326476771 924991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 'highlight' doesn't seem to do "pass through unrecognized data" all that well. I gave it a four-megabyte binary file and it just outputs the bytes 00000000 1b 5b 33 38 3b 35 3b 30 6d 1b 5b 6d 0a |.[38;5;0m.[m.| with --force. < 1326476850 487983 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, evidently so. < 1326476859 207405 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ highlight -qOxterm256 --force /bin/ls < 1326476859 369816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight: Undefined language definition. Use --syntax option. < 1326476859 369994 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: segmentation fault highlight -qOxterm256 --force /bin/ls < 1326476884 93078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think it should just exec cat or something when it doesn't have a clue based on the file extension. < 1326476893 481186 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought --force would do. < 1326476912 573732 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With -q.) < 1326476913 758979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"less /bin/ls" outputs "^?ELF^B^A^A" in blue now. < 1326476994 565730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! http://stackoverflow.com/users/1097181/ehird < 1326477012 589770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Couldn't you just use || cat %s? < 1326477017 125271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you can silence errors. < 1326477038 21706 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told it to be quiet and it still said "Undefined language definition" (and segfaulted). < 1326477088 878643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming sharing applies to typeclass constants right? < 1326477090 514709 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it says that whenever the file has no extension. < 1326477096 590877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be silly to calculate minBound for a type multiple times. < 1326477130 256879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You might want to report a bug. :p < 1326477135 609706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 2>/dev/null and so on. < 1326477267 194872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're reputation is apostrophical. < 1326477272 665934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ELCM some code to generate Enum instances for 2-operand product types. feedback welcome. < 1326477281 948759 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, -q is just "supress progress info in batch mode" [sic], so maybe 2>/dev/null is the canonical solution. < 1326477328 278955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stack_Overflow#Partisanship_section_recuringly_censored_by_MICROSOFT_vendors < 1326477329 830808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stack_Overflow#Criticism_.28October_2011.29 < 1326477336 333668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL people on [[Talk:Stack Overflow]] are insane. < 1326477336 993202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does quiet the "unknown extension" message, though. < 1326477359 925809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yells "MICROSOFT" every time it says "MICROSOFT".
< 1326477375 25681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but that discussing a (much faster) Free Web server using full ANSI_C scripts is "obvious advertising" (citation missing after the user account and all its posts have been censored)." < 1326477379 609189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing :D < 1326477390 683463 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that it does. In fact it seems a bit random about what it quiets and what it doesn't, based on a cursory reading of https://syntaxhighlight.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/syntaxhighlight/highlight/src/cli/main.cpp < 1326477406 872072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's by the vendors of this thing, which I have seen before: http://g-wan.com/ < 1326477432 220793 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I can't generalize very well is the enum instance for PieceInfo, because it's essentially all special cases... < 1326477447 247029 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd better be a bit careful in gaining reputation, because once you clear the 50k mark you turn into MICROSOFT C# developper [sic] and a C# book author. < 1326477454 218338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"G-WAN (~100 KB) makes it a breeze by transparently parallelizing legacy procedural code." < 1326477456 487769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it does. < 1326477464 911941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I like how you can't select text on that site. < 1326477469 304794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that mean I get money? < 1326477486 884574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say. < 1326477493 968950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like money! < 1326477498 656804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More money than Haskell, anyway. < 1326477518 809838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"G-WAN makes C/C++ libraries fly: < 1326477518 972280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developping C# though... are you sure it's worth it? < 1326477521 873281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pragma link "sqlite3"" < 1326477528 113149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLIGHT. < 1326477539 600805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I must be pretty good at it, if I've written books about it. < 1326477546 16834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suppose that doesn't hold for an awful lot of tech books out there. < 1326477580 281001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so NO REFERENCE IS AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF STACKOVERFLOW CENSORSHIP." < 1326477583 547064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's remarkably convenient. < 1326477611 659951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll also start to make blattant lies. < 1326477621 829373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who claimed during a conflict that he is a RUBY developer while in fact he works as a C# developer." < 1326477627 807799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I might even start programming in more than one language! < 1326477638 895044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fact that you are FAKING to be willing to investigate this issue is raising the question of the neutrality of Wikipedia moderators.." < 1326477642 749009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The conspiracy, it's spreading. < 1326477661 486803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all MSFTies too. < 1326477667 469116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you get past 50k edits... < 1326477687 169911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are "only an Ordinary user" -of course. With a Wikipedia "User" page and the ability to lock-up (sorry, "Protect") a page against a properly documented MICROSOFT-BIAS" < 1326477687 652440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326477692 125184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just keeps getting better. < 1326477703 734272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You "Ordinary users" with your Wikipedia "User" pages. < 1326477733 299320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's drinking the Microsoft Kool-Aid. (Is that what you say?) < 1326477744 416611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about idioms. < 1326477757 920709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your bias in adding the notice is evident from the fact that you've added the "Criticism" the moment you were suspended from Super User. SathyaBhat (talk) 14:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC) < 1326477758 83363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you list yourself as a StackOverflow moderator on your profile, I hardly consider you an unbiased source. [...] < 1326477758 245902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Stack Overflow moderator. SathyaBhat (talk) 15:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC) < 1326477766 209993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET STACK OVERFLOW MODERATOR. < 1326477867 807859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this "Super User" thing? < 1326477877 828742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 256 :: Word8 < 1326477878 535465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Enum.toEnum{Word8}: tag (256) is outside of bounds (0,255) < 1326477878 822195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's the Third Site in the Stack Overflow Trilogy. < 1326477885 22129 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the second? < 1326477886 675230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I swear this terminology is not made up. < 1326477890 209678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Server Fault. < 1326477898 276323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server Fault is sysadmin stuff; Super User is general "computery" stuff. < 1326477913 454823 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought Super User was the sysadmin one. < 1326477920 543888 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1326477951 249256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a way to automatically determine the minimal WordN type needed to represent maxBound of a type. < 1326477953 422922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Help! Microsoft just hired me! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stack_Overflow&diff=471179936&oldid=469906030 < 1326477968 756389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Represent howso? < 1326477971 556648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounded doesn't imply integral. < 1326477974 671097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. < 1326478002 229655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So I don't see how it makes sense. < 1326478008 898316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1326478016 654482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Bounded Enum < 1326478020 66440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about that? < 1326478036 456177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, Enum only offers ->Int conversion. < 1326478041 134199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it fits into an Int. < 1326478045 871562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from wrong instances. < 1326478050 926334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Integer fromEnum < 1326478051 216656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. < 1326478054 446548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong instances like that. < 1326478060 62138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fuck the Prelude.) < 1326478077 412104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but you could convert it to a smaller integer type right? < 1326478092 912230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: btw, shouldn't it run less or ls | less, for consistency? <-- it's not about consistency, it's about convenience < 1326478093 82525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you determine the minimum at compile time. < 1326478125 52573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that generally an impossible thing to do because it requires runtime information (namely fromEnum (maxBound)) < 1326478131 360025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: At compile-time? You can't, maxBounded isn't accessible at compile time; types can't depend on values, because Haskell is not Agda. < 1326478132 64231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hackage/Prelude "fromEnum :: a -> Int: Convert to an Int. It is implementation-dependent what fromEnum returns when applied to a value that is too large to fit in an Int." See, it can be bigger too, it just doesn't work then. < 1326478140 168583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IT'S IMMORAL. < 1326478154 135531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in YOUR oral. < 1326478167 435007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that meant. < 1326478176 521233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is rated PG, man. < 1326478211 365171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's responsible for printing "Segmentation fault" on a segfault? the kernel, sending to the process's stderr? to its controlling terminal? < 1326478276 412086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash < 1326478277 457617 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: waitpid() and company return an exit status, from which the parent process (the shell) can determine that the child exited due to a segfault. Right? < 1326478277 643354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1326478287 596500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd strongly suspect the shell, but I've never thought about it. < 1326478291 610757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd sound the logical place. < 1326478291 773008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as though this Enum generator thing is probably something that someone has already done somewhere. < 1326478307 971393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D there's a "bloomier filter" < 1326478326 689929 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that zsh says "zsh: segmentation fault" it'd be very unexpected if it weren't the shell. :-P < 1326478344 772913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do modules implicitly export typeclass instances that they import? < 1326478356 122243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait irrelevant < 1326478402 80301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: There is no control over importing/exporting instances. < 1326478406 527663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instances just permeate the natural vacuum. < 1326478410 826716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1326478412 142709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they can get to your code, they will. < 1326478416 497108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought < 1326478421 160744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's required by the open world assumption.) < 1326478422 314923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't sure. < 1326478448 137813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See my answer to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8728596/explicitly-import-instances.) < 1326478485 937250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxBoundProd looks lonely without a minBoundProd. but in most cases it would just be toEnum 0 < 1326478509 357294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could NOT be that... I guess. < 1326478509 926225 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please leave a space after URLs so that hyperlinkifiers get it right; thanks. < 1326478545 96475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your hyperlinkifier is seriously broken if it includes final dots. < 1326478557 993186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is incredibly ugly. :( < 1326478561 223632 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It includes the dot and the period. < 1326478569 557440 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a completely valid resulting URL. < 1326478574 55406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a difference between a dot and a period? < 1326478577 933566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1326478581 140434 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dot and the bracket. < 1326478602 935490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it is, but hyperlinkifiers have to extract URLs from language; there's a trade-off to be made where you must reject some valid URLs to be useful in the majority case. < 1326478615 317793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could half-heartedly make an effort to enclose them in cases of ambiguity? < 1326478622 309770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See my answer to .) < 1326478624 220038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? < 1326478626 660907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^d/D/ < 1326478630 722435 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems to work. < 1326478674 686939 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have an inclusive linkifier and tell people to be machine-helpful when they paste URLs; it's easier to backspace characters off the end than add missing stuff, too. :-P < 1326478692 499379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also: < 1326478694 27060 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ echo "./segfault" | bash < 1326478694 189644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 1: 24141 Segmentation fault ./segfault < 1326478694 189814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ echo "./segfault" | env LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash < 1326478694 189920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: rivi 1: 24144 Muistialueen ylitys ./segfault < 1326478710 96573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some reason it won't obey LC_ALL if I give it -c "./segfault" instead.) < 1326478727 260997 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1326478736 966794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Probably it bubbles the signal up. < 1326478744 535696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because -c is generally for non-interactive use. < 1326478852 839698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha monomorphism restriction you're funny. < 1326478894 564258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It looks as if it execve's ./segfault without forking if I do a simple-command -c like that. < 1326478932 628706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash -c "./segfault" < 1326478932 829955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1326478932 830133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash -c "./segfault > /dev/null" < 1326478932 830238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: rivi 1: 24200 Muistialueen ylitys ./segfault > /dev/null < 1326478941 842069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense, even if it's not quite what I'd expect. < 1326478944 567935 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :File a bug report about that changing behaviour. < 1326478965 94241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it won't leave all those useless 'bash' processes around when people do "sh -c ..." from wherever. < 1326478984 3855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, file a bug. It will, at least, be amusing to see the laughter. < 1326479051 16784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that while the SO user from before was not allowed to use eVal as a variable name, it is perfectly acceptable for kallisti to do so.
< 1326479058 635366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, then I'd have to dig around the documentation first to see if it's mentioned somewhere. < 1326479070 184060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what maintainers are there for! < 1326479076 359483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do that for you and yell at you about it. < 1326479237 509607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is eVal hungarian notation? < 1326479456 248493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1326479460 668117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1326479462 792665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a value < 1326479463 843908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326479472 120463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to one list, "e" is a prefix for enums. < 1326479495 783386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands for "enum value" which is a shitty way of saying "the integer returned by the value in this expression that had an Enum instance and not the one that had both Enum and Bounded" < 1326479503 704481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you determine which is shittier. < 1326479578 961796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1326479579 124241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (GArrow g (**3) u, < 1326479579 124441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowDrop g (**2) b, < 1326479579 124590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowCopy g (**) u1, < 1326479579 124686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowCopy g (**2) b, < 1326479579 964070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowSum g (**1) ((**2) a1 (Mu (Foo a1))), < 1326479581 967347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowLoop g (**) u1) => < 1326479583 969383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : g a (Mu (Foo a1)) < 1326479585 971873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this is going to be painful. < 1326479600 120887 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much type! < 1326479609 548236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also so full of stars. < 1326479620 528319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part is that those (**2) things aren't actually valid syntax. < 1326479627 633289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just appends numbers without thinking, to operators. < 1326479653 765607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some sort of GHC extension to make that work, or was this just written by a blithering idiot? < 1326479677 615412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "This" was written by the blithering idiot known as GHCi. < 1326479746 495436 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, classy. < 1326479908 636311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> putStrLn . runHask $ foo < 1326479908 837943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a -> let (b,c) = (((((\a -> (a,a)) . (Mu)) . (Foo)) . (\x -> case x of { Left y -> Left ((\_ -> ()) y); Right y -> Right y })) . (Right)) (a,c) in b < 1326479909 618714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1326479949 484323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toInteger < 1326479950 182829 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> Integer < 1326479963 261399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Behold. < 1326479992 26007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum . succ . toInteger $ (maxBound :: Int) < 1326479993 269415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9223372036854775808 < 1326479995 895910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1326480016 335276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ (maxBound :: Int) < 1326480017 343121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.Enum.succ{Int}: tried to take `succ' of maxBound < 1326480021 4620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 + (maxBound :: Int) < 1326480022 20250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9223372036854775808 < 1326480025 190758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I simplified it for you. < 1326480033 495472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... yes. < 1326480053 334893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative enum indexes seem... bad. < 1326480073 352128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not really? < 1326480080 287079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum foo { MAGIC_BLAH = ~0 } < 1326480082 240268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*}; < 1326480129 174605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326480136 826712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I SAID BEHOLD. < 1326480140 652923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess now that I've rewritten numOf to not assume that minBound is 0, it's less of a problem. < 1326480166 901168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it makes the assumption that it's a contiguous interval (i.e. the enum doesn't only use even numbers or powers of two etc) < 1326480510 69824 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-44.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326480514 22640 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326480660 2188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also are you sure that "they're used in C" is a good defense? < 1326480802 47677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's what Enum is for. < 1326480804 617962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An enumeration of values. < 1326481215 167380 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326481275 699557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326482264 454687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326482456 879019 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326484199 257394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326484985 313874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-162.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485003 460819 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-44.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326485055 173010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the topological structure of the universe? < 1326485065 500855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er rather < 1326485066 731308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1326485072 18461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the universe < 1326485100 689155 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it was some sort of mobiusy dodecahedron or something somewhere < 1326485103 479109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also... < 1326485106 472265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: ice cream < 1326485123 721528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dodecahedron wat < 1326485173 803398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe < 1326485183 5049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: flat < 1326485205 822777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326485216 859950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No? "The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) has confirmed that the universe is flat with only a 0.5% margin of error.[1] Within the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) model, the presently most popular shape of the Universe found to fit observational data according to cosmologists is the infinite flat model,[2]" < 1326485271 474711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) flat isn't a topological thing, it's a differential geometric thing; b) the Poincaré dodecahedron is homeomorphic to the 3-sphere, which isn't flat. < 1326485331 771214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) is kind of splitting hairs, admittedly, and b) was due to a misunderstanding < 1326485349 731104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (a) Well, I was being liberal with my interpretation of kallisti; he tends to yell at me when I'm not. (b) Yeah, but that's just one of the models. < 1326485438 588857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I mean I assumed you were following on from Ngevd. < 1326485474 312668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326485509 177711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485509 907048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh... which one is it? :P < 1326485543 850702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Which one of what? < 1326485547 17551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flat. < 1326485564 246160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"flat" isn't a topological structure is it? < 1326485580 860134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, I was too liberal. < 1326485584 971367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat here means R^3. < 1326485594 882684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. okay. < 1326485597 688387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the usual topology, of course.) < 1326485632 563275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought most scientists believe that the universe "wraps around" < 1326485635 839475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/World_line.svg I like how this is indistinguishable from pseudoscience. < 1326485641 518030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You thought wrong. < 1326485652 378287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also, it's not like you could ever find out, to my understanding. < 1326485655 650438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. there is no way to reach the edge. < 1326485690 139306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could find out, at least through application of the Copernican principle and measurement of the large-scale curvature. < 1326485767 680875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, but I mean "you couldn't actually do it". < 1326485848 772647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485851 238113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326485892 902121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's entirely possible for the universe to be expanding and also infinite, given that the "expanding universe" thing technically means something more like "the distance between two parts of the universe grows over time" and less "lol it's finite and expanding into nothingness" < 1326485921 146092 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-162.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326485921 308129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326486113 968117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. so enumerating an arbitrary product type is actually kind of like a mixed radix numeral system. < 1326486170 643555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326486204 168252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to extend my code to product types with 3 operands I would be adding a "digit" whose base is multiplied by a power of two. < 1326486420 47629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: projectable product types, or patternmatchable product types? < 1326486431 833551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the difference. "Haskell product types" :P < 1326486442 706643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's pure, so it doesn't matter ther < 1326486442 868658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably the latter/ < 1326486444 173740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1326486446 351831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1326486489 831699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/Gcbh this is the 2-operand case. you can see how it looks like a 2-digit numeral system. < 1326486494 69879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mixed radix. < 1326486498 822598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to spend 40 minutes discussing product types with someone and then not /use/ the resulting knowledge < 1326486511 883181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326486526 532701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically in fromEnumProd is where you can see the mixed radix. < 1326486578 991660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :numOf b returns the total number of elements of b's type. numOf True would return 2. < 1326486596 310691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it makes some assumptions about how the Enum instance is defined) < 1326486601 950722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I suppose it's entirely possible for the universe to be expanding and also infinite, given that the "expanding universe" thing technically means something more like "the distance between two parts of the universe grows over time" and less "lol it's finite and expanding into nothingness" < 1326486616 779905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is precisely the current scientific consensus. < 1326486658 173828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. < 1326486660 936025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eventually we're going to need big magnets to keep everything close enough. < 1326486680 455022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean I'm actually increasing in volume? :P < 1326486708 172276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1326486709 100423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's possible to stop it; one of the scenarios for the end of the universe is the expansion overwhelming all binding forces and ripping every particle into its constituents. < 1326486711 88376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no. < 1326486733 533356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bonds holding you together are slightly strained by the expansion, but they aren't pulled apart. < 1326486751 326647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like an "end of the universe" but just "an end of matter as we know it" < 1326486802 216694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure how to write the inverse function for an n-operand product type...
< 1326486811 915746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could define an applicative? maybe < 1326486909 697262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a way to take an integer and a constructor with any number of arguments and fill all of its fields with values. < 1326486941 498143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every field needs to be Bounded and Enum, except for the last one, which can be just Enum. < 1326486981 245524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no they all need to be Bounded I think. < 1326486997 249854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think it's possible to stop it; one of the scenarios for the end of the universe is the expansion overwhelming all binding forces and ripping every particle into its constituents. < 1326487003 503022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me are you suggesting magnets will get less powerful. < 1326487008 86391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also I know that you dolt.) < 1326487013 462144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yyyyes. < 1326487059 911066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But what will ICP do? < 1326487204 379335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also couldn't you just use a really really dense powerful magnet. < 1326487211 26395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just need to keep creating larger magnet galaxies. < 1326487254 618828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is exactly like a mixed radix numeral system. shocking. < 1326487434 717444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: see also instance Ix for tuples < 1326487649 440825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty difficult to read.. < 1326487659 749609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) index < 1326487660 82723 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. < 1326487661 757828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) range < 1326487662 26064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1326487662 811860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1326487673 62528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be nice if @src actually worked. < 1326487675 777871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.2/html/libraries/base-4.2.0.1/src/GHC-Arr.html#Ix < 1326487705 190293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "6.12.2" < 1326487713 559873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1326487737 342003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not immensely likely to have changed < 1326487758 254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: considering that the latest docs do _not_ include ghc.arr... < 1326487768 703546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326487771 785811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/src/GHC-Arr.html works < 1326487782 716036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you keep replying to everything with O KAY it'll become annoying :P < 1326487791 214254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326487798 87323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cough < 1326487807 724861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not the coughing < 1326487994 675154 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am GOING TO READ A BOOK. < 1326487996 814361 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADE OF PAPER < 1326488003 234050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT ME BEING ALL LOW TECH < 1326488142 738434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have I told you about how we don't have electricity in Hexham? < 1326488148 195377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear algebra is not as boring as I'd thought. < 1326488150 498473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What's the book. < 1326488163 108358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Girl with the Dragon Tatyoo < 1326488166 538334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatyoo. < 1326488173 58027 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a ytpo < 1326488185 569002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oaky < 1326488281 512981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also read the books made of paper, when resting in bed < 1326488297 981107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What are the books made out of in Edinburgh? < 1326488305 56281 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book is set in Sweden. < 1326488316 123524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raw abstraction. < 1326488327 580265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand there is at least one person who lives in Sweden who frequents this channel < 1326488338 115673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Yes, and he's terrible. < 1326488351 492411 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, maybe he's the killer! < 1326488362 118751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's originally in swedish, yes < 1326488364 724595 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, elliott, you've ruined the ending for me! < 1326488383 94825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just like you. < 1326488420 606607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: jag fattar inte vad du pratar om < 1326488429 824588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that chess server program you were talking about a long time ago, does the server randomly select who's black and white? < 1326488468 497041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "You're fat, also bad; do you pratar om?" < 1326488484 433428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Free Internet Chess Server? I do not remember now, but I think there is an option to do that but it does not always do that < 1326488503 901803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i cannot disagree with you making a translation that insults you < 1326488507 977256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the way I see it working is you choose a preference. < 1326488513 610637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either white, black, or no preference < 1326488515 193295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1326488523 816837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a ranking system, then unfavored players are given white. < 1326488526 50039 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That does make sense is one way < 1326488536 853094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some mix of the two. < 1326488540 685232 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, choose the preference. < 1326488557 155614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326488568 468910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. a ranking gsystem implies a) an actual userbase b) a consistent set of rules < 1326488571 494998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I have neither. < 1326488589 246724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if there were a tournament, with a consistent set of rules between each game, then a ranking system would be reasonable. < 1326488591 196572 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly in case both player preference, players with lower ranking preference override, but in general you match up such that preferences agree instead of conflict so you do not have to use the rankings < 1326488612 423006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that sounds good. < 1326488742 667539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the preference should be indicated as part of the standard "greeting" between a client and server. < 1326488787 984424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 2.4 million kronor a lot? < 1326488821 65854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So wait, is everything in Edinburgh made out of raw abstraction? < 1326488826 642921 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do you want to play [f]irst, [s]econd, or [n]o preference?" < 1326488835 46856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. < 1326488843 888405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What about the sandstone? < 1326488845 954447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else do you think a Phantom_Hoover such as myself could live there. < 1326488856 1575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, raw abstraction and sandstone. < 1326488874 864830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1326488887 556381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I forget, are you a hoover that hoovs phantoms or a hoover that is a phantom? < 1326488888 426604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sandstone is a very good abstract building material. < 1326488893 328758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget. < 1326488899 436482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hoover that is phantom. < 1326488907 194220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't really know if I intend to set it up that way. perhaps. < 1326488917 684154 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Taneb who is a Ngevd who is about to leave < 1326488918 770622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326488925 351014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I really hope you one day use the name Phantom Hoover in an official capacity and get sued by the Hoover company. < 1326488929 255646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott Phantom_Hoover darnnit Ngevd left update < 1326488933 936578 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else? < 1326488935 764901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait why don't you change your name to Phantom Hoover, it's way more pronouncable. < 1326488948 575398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I do want it to be text-based in a way that allows you to connect through telnet. or a simple text-based client that memorizes settings for you, so that you can automate any kind of client-server greeting < 1326488960 524830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You LIED to me. < 1326488970 602778 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1326488990 825229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1326489001 557453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so there would be a prefer command. if you don't send a prefer command then it defaults to no preference. < 1326489006 455887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1326489006 621269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my name was Phantom_Hoover until IRC ruined it. < 1326489006 621447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. the wiki. < 1326489013 449453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326489017 431294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: other settings would work similarly. for example, there are a number of rule preferences you can make. < 1326489029 798047 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489033 33472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489033 195244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1326489038 477038 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326489076 879102 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't think monqy wants to be on my list? < 1326489078 959840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong < 1326489087 802647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a macro or something < 1326489101 408899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i want him to suffer < 1326489110 528405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, my name was Phantom_Hoover until IRC ruined it. < 1326489113 946569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I meant your IRL name? < 1326489126 284327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There was no update. < 1326489135 449010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everyone would give me funny looks. < 1326489137 141767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there was. < 1326489148 262975 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes there was, unless you checked like two seconds before I announced and read it already < 1326489156 64496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is. < 1326489164 650882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude, you're called Ahamhmahnahmnhahhnahanin McCuil. < 1326489170 821725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your funny lookage would *decrease*. < 1326489186 109146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't actually recall saying you could disclose that in the channel. < 1326489218 793784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (a) I spelled it terribly (b) Dude it was originally in the channel. < 1326489234 27863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also been in the channel multiple times since originally being in the channel? < 1326489261 305871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't recall saying that. < 1326489283 902855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-04-15.txt:08:55:14: -!- Phantom_Hoover is now known as A_McCuil. < 1326489296 895061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humm. < 1326489308 165104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First occurrence of "McCuil" (case insensitive) 2010 onwards. < 1326489382 361906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Other reasons to change your name to Phantom Hoover: You'll no longer be named after a crappy search engine. < 1326489396 213717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuil was not crappy. < 1326489420 64147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, *innovative search engine < 1326489430 388559 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see that you bothered. < 1326489433 233083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Innovative in areas such as, for example, not returning relevant results. < 1326489444 257896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was running close to the cap and wanted accept rep. < 1326489453 168164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :( < 1326489454 882166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the innovation has been around since long before. < 1326489455 44025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did, however, produce extremely entertaining results. < 1326489457 348140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1326489459 196612 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489462 148871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326489481 398609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't get you where you meant to go, but where you secretly wanted to go, and is that not the greater journey. < 1326489486 443988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls cuils are very abstract
< 1326489494 348177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW I'm happy not to mention the string that is approximately 100x too ridiculous to be your name in-channel if you don't want me to. < 1326489498 688752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How quickly did you read. < 1326489501 340418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: 2.4 million Swedish kronor = 223 598.928 British pounds < 1326489506 410816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quickly enough < 1326489509 208722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, slapping B-coloured paint on A, etc. < 1326489516 803408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm... I could do with that amount of money < 1326489546 209749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (a, a) = (2,2) in a < 1326489546 738832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Conflicting definitions for `a' < 1326489546 913160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bound at: :1:5 < 1326489547 74999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (a, _) = (2, 2) in _ < 1326489581 22102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1326489581 228200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get back to < 1326489581 690665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Go back to. < 1326489590 788286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That would be indistinguishable from SO. < 1326489603 111212 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you underestimate me. < 1326489610 100133 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, in a, not in _ < 1326489613 408288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to think of a situation where such a thing would be useful. < 1326489624 839906 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal would be to see how long you could last before going *actually* insane. < 1326489629 869638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it would be too difficult to implement would it? < 1326489636 753467 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What do you want this to do, exactly? Compare with (==)? < 1326489648 361380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever case does. < 1326489658 333499 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't want structural equality. < 1326489664 947639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a function? < 1326489687 905534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a Set, and you have two equivalent sets that are represented using different trees? < 1326489689 613337 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f id < 1326489690 508869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489693 540751 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1326489696 320615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know. < 1326489702 341413 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a data structure that has cycles in it? < 1326489704 678927 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How... what < 1326489708 792838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Eq would work, but maybe isn't the best way? < 1326489716 349213 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f q = 5 in f id < 1326489716 902451 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f (id . id) < 1326489717 460978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489717 812989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489727 678604 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f undefined < 1326489728 534201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489734 329793 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The best way is probably not to do it. < 1326489734 699316 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1326489753 314562 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1326489753 476579 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f id = 5 in f < 1326489754 365143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (Num t1) => t -> t1 < 1326489761 580361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly sees the obvious
< 1326489766 175108 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before the type) < 1326489782 284 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the type, all IRC users are equal. < 1326489811 524502 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let num = (1::Int) in let f num = num in f 2 < 1326489812 243534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am great confused waht tpye < 1326489812 449894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1326489844 310084 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no way to make the pattern thing see variables outside the pattern, nor any meaning towards trying to do so < 1326489869 62529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1326489978 147814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > let f id = 5 in f id < 1326489978 309724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489978 309911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ! < 1326489978 681744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How... what < 1326489994 117764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this day elliott died by putting his palm on his face so hard that it went straight through. < 1326490031 14883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi now is the time where you have an opportunity to talk me out of using a monad transformer. < 1326490035 56007 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I managed to trick myself into thinking it was magically pattern matching on the function known as id < 1326490052 436353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Scottish clan invades Hexham, demands apology for calling their name "ridiculous" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326490063 439845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're stupid and dumb and your code sucks and I hate you. < 1326490065 830667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *monad* transformer. < 1326490071 15278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, shachaf doesn't like them. < 1326490085 25419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, why do you not like monad transformers. < 1326490094 522487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like burrito transformers! < 1326490099 647972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unfortunately they're made out of pure abstraction and thus pass right through normal matter. < 1326490107 69158 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (\x -> x) = 5 in f id < 1326490107 689288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They turn burritos into spacesuits containing toxic waste. < 1326490107 978957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1326490108 904680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't like them either, if that means anything to you. < 1326490151 681136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, the Scottish clan is invading Hexham again < 1326490159 693923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget to burn the Abbey! < 1326490170 662972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you shouldn't underestimate their sandstone ballistas < 1326490178 196437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I will make use of both IO and State. I will begin coding with both monads seperate and see if I ever need them at the same time. < 1326490192 696111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if I can avoid doing so altogether < 1326490200 410077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, we will abstract burn them. < 1326490201 443900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you not understand what was happening < 1326490216 308517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, so they'll be abstractly burned but not concretely. < 1326490220 447489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know much about them; I'm interested in what's wrong with them? < 1326490227 139580 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad transformers, that is. < 1326490229 494376 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I figured it out < 1326490239 375724 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo suddenly sees the obvious < 1326490254 236641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They don't compose well. < 1326490263 493071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :id in f id = was just a variable in the pattern to be assigned to whatever the argument was < 1326490297 502614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The order you apply transformers in can have often confusing changes to the semantics; also, there's no real unified "theory" or definition of monad transformers. They're just things that turn Monad instances into other Monad instances where you can lift actions of the inner Monad in. < 1326490298 420075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 + 2 = text "~the wonders of shadowing~" in 2 + 2 < 1326490299 408274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~the wonders of shadowing~ < 1326490310 672280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That sounsd specific, but in reality it means that monad transformers can pretty much do anything. < 1326490319 648609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I get what you mean. < 1326490322 175938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When turning a monad into its transformer, there's no mechanical rule for telling where you layer on the "m"s. < 1326490348 336769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as operational concerns go, they can be pretty damn slow, because every single bind you perform has to go through N layers of wrapping. < 1326490361 991033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's a RWST that's just ReaderT, WriterT, and StateT bundled together for performance. < 1326490381 460232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I understand the purpose of RWS < 1326490384 215664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess "convenience" too, but it could just be a type synonym if that was the real reason.) < 1326490392 905331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that State works well for all three of these things. < 1326490403 607528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, and you can write all your code in IO, too. < 1326490413 377243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using State for all of those is great, because you can write to your read-only state! < 1326490418 247917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reverse your monoidal accumulator. < 1326490420 734959 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONAD TRANSFORMERS R DUM < 1326490422 733742 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why. < 1326490426 905236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION QED
< 1326490436 929309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think Phantom_Hoover will find your criticism tau times as convincing as mine. < 1326490443 430422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sounsd/sounds/ < 1326490446 11025 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, needing to learn new semantics for each monad transformer independent of the semantics of the monad? < 1326490448 240077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/}/ }/ way up < 1326490464 473591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, no, what they do is usually intuitively obvious. < 1326490467 759972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not saying much, though. < 1326490474 57730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and it's really hard to "combine" monad transformer stacks. < 1326490478 533995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You pretty much have to define one stack and stick to it. < 1326490493 179421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say "this code needs , this other code needs , and this code uses both the previous codes". < 1326490497 445623 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So at least one of our criticisms was irrational. < 1326490504 353915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not without a LOT of threading stuff manually to run it all. < 1326490509 539610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326490510 224503 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you're giving actual justifications. < 1326490511 246283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is a monad transformer zipper! < 1326490552 137901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW my current favourite solution to the problem of composable effects is http://math.andrej.com/2010/09/27/programming-with-effects-ii-introducing-eff/, which I especially like because there's no leap of syntax from pure code to an effect. < 1326490560 475802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Haskell you need to, at the very least, interleave <$> and <*> everywhere. < 1326490564 796581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey that's what Monad* classes are for < 1326490574 287444 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers what he could possibly use RWS for in his portal chess implementation.
< 1326490587 931400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :writer could be used for a log.... but, do I need one of those? < 1326490590 668844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, and you can't define context synonyms, so all your method signatures are 10x larger! \o/ < 1326490606 30013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also, if the compiler doesn't inline it away, you get to pass around a hundred typeclass dictionaries everywhere! < 1326490613 298636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/method signatures/definition signatures/ < 1326490626 766096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, and you can't have two pieces of state in the same stack. < 1326490635 426506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just not allowed. Everyone only needs one piece of state. < 1326490664 214613 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm? Surely you can if you drop the convenience of MonadState? < 1326490675 135276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1326490680 397255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, yeah, and it's really hard to "combine" monad transformer stacks. < 1326490680 559441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You pretty much have to define one stack and stick to it. < 1326490680 559614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't say "this code needs , this other code needs , and this code uses both the previous codes". < 1326490680 721452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : At least not without a LOT of threading stuff manually to run it all. < 1326490683 464432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hey that's what Monad* classes are for < 1326490693 838123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I BET YOU'RE NOT EVEN READING THAT < 1326490713 799066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading, does that count?? < 1326490714 887450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Phantom_Hoover thinks this was far too concrete for an abstraction < 1326490715 592438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should read it too, unless you did since I told you ages ago. < 1326490754 820523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the def and nonsense? < 1326490779 744382 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tastes like... ML? < 1326490786 79568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Valve will hunt me down if I make advertisement money off of portal chess. :P < 1326490796 857769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just name it something other than portals < 1326490800 665435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, it's not like you can do mutually-recursive definitions any other way at a REPL. < 1326490804 529211 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Read what? "introducting eff"? < 1326490805 639812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, the authors are ML people. < 1326490813 682374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. I told you to the last time monad transformers came up. < 1326490819 87857 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in my list-of-things-that-I'll-ostensibly-read-someday! < 1326490825 829737 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that enough for you, elliott? < 1326490832 977053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had an INTERCAL REPL idea that each line you wrote would append to a program < 1326490836 72864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NO READ NOW. < 1326490837 895531 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only about a hundred other tabs in that list! < 1326490844 480893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's like 3 pages long, dude < 1326490845 952245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd rerun the program from scratch each time, discarding any output that was the same as last time < 1326490846 182675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE. < 1326490848 663797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1326490851 276021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, even COME FROM would work properly < 1326490887 215745 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine, I'll move it to the end of that list. < 1326490892 50013 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always start from the end. < 1326490907 362572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, and then start now. < 1326490915 727437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably wake up now.
< 1326490933 759094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alles hat ein ende nur die wurst hat zwei < 1326490973 744572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In an emergency situation, could you crudely fashion an antistatic wristband by crouching on a computer case? < 1326490995 522524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on if the case is earthed < 1326491005 936223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it probably will be if it's made of metal, not painted, and plugged in < 1326491009 669839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 3 are likely, 2 may not be < 1326491012 836835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftCatch :: (m (a, s, w) -> (e -> m (a, s, w)) -> m (a, s, w)) -> RWST l w s m a -> (e -> RWST l w s m a) -> RWST l w s m a < 1326491015 863414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmm < 1326491019 501312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the paint would make the outside not earthed, although the inside would be) < 1326491044 974746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks, I'll let my supernatural vacuum cleaner friend know < 1326491050 887364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :earth tone painting < 1326491073 441995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is a really bizarre question, anyway < 1326491082 261290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good emergency antistatic wristband is water pipes, anyway < 1326491084 671200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, TPB are switching to magnet links exclusively < 1326491089 898143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're often unpainted, and quite commonly found around houses < 1326491115 388184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Often'? < 1326491123 716698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever seen painted water pipe— oh wait you don't mean taps. < 1326491132 633523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used a tap to assuage my paranoia.) < 1326491133 713514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty much every house has their entire water supply system earthed because it saves on money for earth wires < 1326491145 713608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover/tap otp < 1326491149 766597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on the flip side, sometimes taps are made of plastic < 1326491178 724937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I'd have to be one of those hoovers that works with water (these are a thing apparently, it said so on Postman Pat once). < 1326491192 848999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think we actually own one < 1326491201 718082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it in years, though < 1326491204 266263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reference 1. Postman Pat < 1326491218 909858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: my aunt has one < 1326491227 745272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :used it occasionally to wash the carpet, rather than just vacuum-clean it < 1326491245 986482 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're missing out on #haskell < 1326491261 402374 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : okay.. i solved the problem.. but it really makes me think that haskell is dead slow. when it was taking more than 20 minutes.. i thought i made a mistake somwhere.. but that doesn't seem to be the case.. after 20 minutes my code gav me the right answer..which leads me to believe that my code was correct..but haskell was dead slow.. < 1326491267 984112 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 minutes is simply inexcusable < 1326491299 713594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is carpi for real < 1326491414 684380 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : koeien: could you please tell me why do you recommend data.set? what aspect of the problem makes you think that using data.set would make it run faster? < 1326491415 833639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I use Lazy RWS, this means I can call runRWS and get things like i.e. infinite lists of output to pass to channels/sockets/filehandles etc < 1326491424 610084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1326491458 640083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you suggest -O2? < 1326491462 502191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone suggest -O2? < 1326491462 952479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used strict RWS I would want to add IO to the stack. < 1326491465 839783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet carpi is running in GHCi. < 1326491489 35043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes oxygen is generally helpful when problem solving. < 1326491491 720330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci -O2 is the obvious answer. < 1326491498 841059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Don't use lazy input. < 1326491511 307531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Come on, you have to suggest -O2, it hurts me inside. < 1326491530 191056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay, so then I don't want to use lazy RWS, because I'm pretty sure I'd want lazy input. < 1326491531 538099 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why don't you suggest it? < 1326491567 581141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:01 carpi: think of 'main' as a function that produces a list of things the runtime has to do, like write a file, read stdin etc. < 1326491567 743280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:43 carpi: the things the runtime does for you is stuff that gets "executed" < 1326491567 743451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:38:40 and by runtime are you referring to the part where actions are performed by systems outside haskell on behalf of haskell? < 1326491567 743556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:39:47 carpi: the RTS < 1326491568 586470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:42:57 ah okay.. i googled RTS for haskell.. seems like its an option for ghc where i can tweak the environment in which the haskell code can run. This is exciting..so it means i can make code more faster this way < 1326491578 193989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because I'd join and go "HI, SHACHAF PASTD ME LOGS TO MOCK YOU, USE -O2" and no. < 1326491583 963598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or are you saying /in general/ not to use lazy input? < 1326491591 595896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In general. < 1326491596 378073 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, I wasn't *mocking*! I was sharing. < 1326491620 829601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...really? < 1326491624 140175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Unless you want space leaks, resource allocation problems, unpredictable performance, ... < 1326491627 640152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines it: * elliott has join #haskell USE -O2! WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT -O2??? SOMEONE MENTION -O2, YOU USELESS CHANNEL! * elliott has left #haskell [RAGE]
< 1326491631 828079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... difficult-to-debug IO problems ... < 1326491651 783707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you mean lazy input is a bad idea for programs that are moderately complicated. < 1326491660 476000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay for simple things. < 1326491675 635897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1326491685 599249 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy IO is "good" for the following: trivial examples. < 1326491685 942203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy input is useful only for toy hacks. < 1326491699 526606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. programs you will run less than 5 times ever. < 1326491702 219632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326491710 636687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I suppose, programs that are thiny-veiled wrappers over a trivial pure function. < 1326491715 82232 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nonsense. < 1326491725 19186 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the second thing you mentioned. < 1326491734 524789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably there are other justified uses for lazy I/O. < 1326491734 839598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and here I thought lazy input was something that made Haskell awesome to use. :P < 1326491754 116391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, "interactive multi-user network server" isn't one. < 1326491781 840111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about multiple users anyway < 1326491785 755376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You might like enumerators or conduits or whatever, since they were designed to offer the convenience of lazy IO without the problems. < 1326491801 587625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't really succeed at the convenience part, but I hear the problems they have are new and specific to their solutions. < 1326491841 753921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing they generalize to many different sources of IO? i.e. sockets, filehandles, concurrent channels < 1326491848 761514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 13:10:18 koeien: yea in ghci < 1326491850 513691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Told you. < 1326491861 633218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, although in GHC sockets are Handles. < 1326491868 995155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, there's the lower-level interface, but you almost never need to use it.) < 1326491870 658964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's right. < 1326491895 416742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Conduits are the hip new thing, but I have a predisposed bias against them. On the other hand, enumerator is possibly even more overcomplicated, so... < 1326491896 771330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure Haskell is just dead slow. < 1326491907 684602 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What bias? < 1326491915 388506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduits are better at the resource management thing, anyway. < 1326491916 765392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about things like.... a simple recursive loop. < 1326491927 554934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I don't like them. :p < 1326491932 804934 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why not? :-P < 1326491943 695032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: They use mutable references to maintain basic internal state, for one. < 1326491965 110255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because their interface is basically "stateless" but, hey, they run in ST or IO, so let's just use refs! < 1326492018 833949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they seem very much "engineer-designed", in that there's no coherent underlying semantics or theory at all, there's just a bunch of types that usually have too many members and appear to be essentially "ad-hoc" OOP-ish object records where more things were added on to accomplish additional needs like resource management. < 1326492039 147991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which works, sure, but is bad news for something so "basic" and underlying as stream processing. < 1326492048 215340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "quotes". < 1326492060 568766 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1326492111 902199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, not necessarily that enumerator or anything seems any more coherently designed, but at least there's good signs like functions, simple ADTs, use of closures to maintain internal state, etc. < 1326492145 529932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a simple glance at the top-level module for both enumerator and conduit suggests that enumerator is conceptually simpler. < 1326492159 900338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mostly I think that we're close enough to coming up with a consistent and simple underpinning for iteratees that throwing everything away to start afresh right before that happens is a waste. < 1326492169 31083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I suspect people will begin abandoning enumerator in droves. < 1326492175 488510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, enumerator is painful to use in practice. < 1326492187 659239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largely because there's about 10 composition operators and you usually just have to guess which one you need. < 1326492212 272551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/conduit/0.0.3/doc/html/Data-Conduit.html#g:5 -- at least conduit's are simple. < 1326492230 481727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's many more types though. I don't really know where to start. < 1326492288 744863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SourceResult is simple enough. :P < 1326492291 689852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: < 1326492295 44964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/resourcet < 1326492295 659916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/conduits < 1326492300 104045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/conduits-sink < 1326492305 828257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2012/01/conduits-conduits < 1326492307 467897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2012/01/conduits-buffering < 1326492313 900567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the blog post series they were introduced in that just concluded. < 1326492363 610171 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326492401 791111 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm glad to hear that the conduit's are out of the bag. < 1326492436 512525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: conduit's [composition operators]. < 1326492444 606133 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326492450 258761 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I get for not reading context. < 1326492462 606028 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably just leave IRC.
< 1326492466 602000 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this rate. < 1326492731 360120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah internet damages your brain, you hear. < 1326493433 206331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sure am learning a lot about how to abstract ResourceT to non-IO monads! < 1326493468 42257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, next time I won't link you the material presented introducing an abstraction you find confusing. < 1326493512 959500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no it's useful material I'm just drudging through it waiting for the punchline. < 1326493532 242658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the probably three or four functions I need) < 1326493549 419767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you're writing a network server, you'll probably need more than that. < 1326493566 383748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I have an actual need to scale, yes. a good assumption to make. < 1326493704 9372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, you mean resourceT can only have (maxBound :: Int) registered actions!? < 1326493745 193265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK. Yes, it could just be a "prefer" command, so you can connect using telnet or MUD client or whatever, and if a graphical client is used it can be a menu. < 1326493753 543463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep < 1326493767 194313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual syntax I'll work out later. < 1326493778 837075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "prefer" could be many different kinds of preferences. < 1326493785 4808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding player color and rule set. < 1326493792 861358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly other unforseen options. < 1326493848 761486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I figured out what my reader data is. :P < 1326493908 183039 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326494142 130530 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326494177 62358 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326494313 761533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, you can have those kind of option too, I suppose. And then "help prefer" lists the available preferences (a graphical client can simply list all of them on a menu). < 1326494349 383460 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, "prefer color black" to set the preference for playing black, and "prefer -color" to unset that preference. < 1326494502 476010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something along those lines. < 1326494599 192383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay now that I've stubmled through the ResourceT article the actual conduit article itself is significantly less painful. < 1326494615 567296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While "prefer" by itself should probably display the current settings. < 1326494753 137044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: *articles < 1326495149 860224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears that $= =$= and =$ have considerable variation in the ways you can equivalently piece sources/conduits/sinks together. < 1326495193 155890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just (a $= b =$= c =$= d =$ e), isn't it? < 1326495199 714605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you only use ($=) and (=$) at the end-points. < 1326495230 725741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, if I'm understanding correctly you could could continue to use them until the midpoints < 1326495237 692295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is lambda l or h, I forget. < 1326495255 580909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's just (f . g . h $ x) vs. (f $ g $ h $ x), isn't it? < 1326495258 785837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, l. < 1326495279 905279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1326495283 496496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thx < 1326495322 91257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's just a question of how you want to use the abstraction. What you want to be considered a start point, mid point, and end point. < 1326495413 359610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't learned how enumerators work to compare, but the basics of conduits are pretty intuitive. < 1326495531 809982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1326495532 356019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type of function is off, but without seeing it we probably can't tell why. – Xodarap 10 mins ago < 1326495532 518331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326495532 518524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326495532 518629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need a type – GoodGuyGreg 4 mins ago < 1326495545 516065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOESN'T NEED A TYPE. < 1326495548 755597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326495587 163536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn't need a type" are probably, out of context, words I would never associate with Haskell. < 1326495704 566856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example, the function that transforms text input into sybolic "commands" I would probably make a source. < 1326495721 518591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/function/thing/ < 1326495724 495073 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(????) < 1326495731 953717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :conduit-thingy < 1326495849 491127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Presumably you'd write a parser first. < 1326495873 661142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually going to define what the commands are first.. < 1326495879 97543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do the parser afterwards < 1326495882 159870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1326495884 155820 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326495885 769960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do both kind of at the same time. < 1326495890 51410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant before writing a conduit thing. < 1326495893 468511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes. < 1326495920 93451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing is to implement the "pure" chess game, playable by absolutely no one. it just sits there and exists. < 1326495936 397090 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things in haskell don't have types < 1326495938 5914 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like types < 1326495939 493270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm going to add all the things that are required for the interface. < 1326495982 875510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, someone could play it in GHCI by feeding it a list of commands (in the form of an ADT), actually. < 1326496128 646017 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326496163 426918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omegle... now lets you log in through Facebook. < 1326496197 481683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :types have a type, kind of < 1326496209 204973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Haskell, surely. < 1326496235 561509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whoosh is strong in this one. < 1326496267 940240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Vorpalling. < 1326496285 411775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Vorpals the Ngevd.
< 1326496337 486435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *with < 1326496474 483100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that you can say "kind of" or "sort of", but not really "type of"
< 1326496538 547448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not in that idiom. < 1326496596 644402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They don't need types. < 1326496602 429027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only things that need types have them in Haskell. < 1326496605 99088 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326496607 252583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not functions. < 1326496764 785830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Data.Conduit correct? < 1326496772 612812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think... Control.Conduit is a better name < 1326496777 372948 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1326496790 945454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no difference. < 1326496814 309633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. that's the bottom line. < 1326496817 324475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List; shouldn't it be Control.List, because its Applicative and Monad instances model nondeterministic computation? < 1326496824 921672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Functor but Control.Applicative? < 1326496841 356506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, shouldn't Control.Applicative be Data.Applicative, considering how many containers are instances of it? < 1326496844 41620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a stupid distinction < 1326496860 964577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are monads in Control.Monad, but if you just chop off the type parameter it ends up in Data.Monoid? < 1326496891 132031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I've got the best module name: < 1326496892 374975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduit < 1326496903 623513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad < 1326496906 794265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative < 1326496913 992685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduit.Monad.Applicative < 1326496919 702787 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1326496975 515755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make sense for Data to contain actual data structures < 1326496979 389222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and related functions < 1326496986 895829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, we need to sharply distinguish Data and Control to distance ourselves from the Lispers. < 1326496988 717778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Control containing abstractions over many structures. < 1326496989 637085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Data/Control module names are not really always sensible < 1326496994 47178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since in Haskell they are the same thing < 1326497005 815551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So is a total trie in Data or Control? < 1326497008 160384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, data structures and control structures are the same thing) < 1326497010 391475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it represents a function. < 1326497022 224366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's pure data, no function arrows or control structures in there. < 1326497042 815543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know enough about what that is to conclude anything about it. < 1326497095 579493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1326497097 690364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a trie is < 1326497099 811736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a total trie < 1326497120 131268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://conal.net/blog/posts/elegant-memoization-with-functional-memo-tries might help. < 1326497128 210326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply mean a trie that has all its elements defined. < 1326497137 5245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. representing (a -> b) rather than (a -> Maybe b) or similar. < 1326497155 634100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326497173 911262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can such a trie be used as a control structure? < 1326497201 801905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not entirely sure what that means) < 1326497209 478287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Presumably functions call under control in your categorisation scheme, since they're not "actual concrete data structures"(tm). < 1326497211 929267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fall < 1326497221 420013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lambda is the ultimate control flow and all that. < 1326497249 575124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, since you have ((a -> b) -> Trie a b) and (Trie a b -> (a -> b))... < 1326497252 893772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I'm not really sure honestly. Sure I understand the distinction is arbitrary, but also believe it can be made, though it may be an ill-defined distinction. < 1326497260 734682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet they're pure data trees. < 1326497264 218906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say "control structures" in a functional language would include higher-order functions. < 1326497264 380730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concrete and all that. < 1326497274 528526 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is any of the changes made to Haskell to provide built-in natural number types having inhabited natural number types? < 1326497284 476105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1326497284 638029 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326497303 335111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It really isn't a meaningful distinction. < 1326497331 456134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would merge Data and Control and call the result Structure or something like that.
< 1326497335 450885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "Form", that's nicest. < 1326497342 401969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just remove that level. < 1326497343 265589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no difference between data structures and control structures in Haskell (unless they are made strict) < 1326497343 882620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326497351 288335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then move Control.Exception into System.Exception. < 1326497358 190635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as Control.Concurrent to System.Concurrent. < 1326497372 23387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That would cause massive top-level pollution. < 1326497385 372610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what nasty things does that entail? < 1326497403 618598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data and Control are already pretty hugely populated. < 1326497443 708045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: For a start, there's a Data.Data :P < 1326497448 27093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put Functor and then Functor.Applicative, Functor.Monad, and Functor.Comonad. That might do. < 1326497460 355530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Data.Dynamic would become Dynamic, and that's a very overloaded word to occupy. < 1326497466 680113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But put list stuff in Data.List < 1326497475 801927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's just in base. < 1326497502 597621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Stuff/g < 1326497515 739011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Computers/g < 1326497526 126407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Power!/g < 1326497532 759082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power.Monad < 1326497536 245192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds more exciting doesn't it? < 1326497538 3253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sincerely likes Form the best.
< 1326497555 706058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something from martial arts... < 1326497561 497659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497562 62175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data structures are about form, control structures are about form, abstractions like Functors and Monads are about form. < 1326497566 547647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION utilizes the monad form to deliver a crushing blow to elliott.
< 1326497570 553672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they called in mathematics? < 1326497574 61775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like concurrency or exceptions or IO or whatever isn't really about form. < 1326497583 667063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help what is "form" < 1326497598 911322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Buy a dictionary. < 1326497665 629246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep again
< 1326497665 791040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit < 1326497683 888611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/og3lr/don_stewart_spokesman_for_senate_minority_leader/ < 1326497686 294658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREAT HASKELL CONTENT < 1326497710 994913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1326497730 485808 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great comment too < 1326497769 334409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: - ) < 1326497770 219008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the try/evaluate stuff is not really ideal? I could try to make a library that makes macros using Template Haskell for catching these kind of pattern errors, which seem more ideal way to me since it does not require any values (including functions) to be not mathematically correct; macros are not values so it works OK < 1326497775 843793 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497790 708553 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1326497909 228919 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497912 170764 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: -- )) < 1326497913 678535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematically correct, n. something done the way zzo likes it < 1326497922 162734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. < 1326497933 813325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326497937 605946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That isn't the correct definition. < 1326497942 31736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyoouu aarree ffoorrggiivveenn < 1326498051 963517 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498060 195268 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498060 645142 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326498060 807031 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498096 425250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct definition would make it an adjective? < 1326498112 662188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: That would be part of it. < 1326498471 673812 :tswett_!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 NICK :tswett < 1326498509 964932 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498510 289033 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498510 613310 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498593 659048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree with monqy's correct < 1326498646 901981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh god < 1326498658 664153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i just answered two SO questions by the poster of that functional dreamers thing < 1326498664 265453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml < 1326498691 301262 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional dreamers thing? < 1326498787 104839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.jadbox.com/2012/01/functional-dreamers/ < 1326498805 735578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1326498809 835969 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheh < 1326498831 500339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enjoys the use of "conceptualised" re: Conal since it's the closest verb he can think of to "nothingised"
< 1326498866 490655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :proactivized < 1326498901 389820 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :link elliott? < 1326498946 284792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do you find (zip [0..]) a useful function? < 1326498995 691004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1326499030 442663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: to the questions? < 1326499042 208969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326499048 779758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a single name for (zip [0..]) function? < 1326499058 75889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8858422/does-tryhaskell-org-support-definitions http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8858739/the-difference-between-and-expressions < 1326499059 874474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: zip [0..] < 1326499084 363705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are single-name functions with more characters than that :P < 1326499096 941026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is not what I meant, though. < 1326499108 517153 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine with calling it «zip [0..]» < 1326499109 369211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just wanted to know if there is any; it is not required < 1326499114 33763 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one less arbitrary name to memorize < 1326499116 771035 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, I don't know of one < 1326499119 717089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python calls that "enumerate" < 1326499123 360484 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha"closed as exact duplicate by duri, ehird, Martin Geisler, Tikhon Jelvis, Daniel Pratt 4 secs ago" < 1326499159 473478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1326499162 770030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?) < 1326499172 835758 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (?) < 1326499173 876758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `?' < 1326499196 288879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal language is one where you don't need name bindings at all < 1326499199 907732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they'd all be longer than the definition