< 1326067203 858840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the way that pattern match failure can be caught in IO in Haskell. It should be a macro that changes a function to one resulting in IO and raising the proper exceptions for that, it makes more sense mathematically, this way, to me, at least < 1326067204 690789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh hm reading the wp page, i doubt that. < 1326067227 634021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be happy with `class MonadZero m { where mzero :: m a; mzero = mfail (error "mzero"); mfail :: a -> m b; mfail _ = mzero }`. < 1326067241 245962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't want to give the same treatment to Nothing, though. < 1326067242 710885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just wrong. < 1326067260 592327 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To Nothing? < 1326067279 125172 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Maybe a = Nothing (exists b. b) | Just a? < 1326067281 864787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067289 521824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you told me about it. < 1326067291 582412 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be wrong when it feels so right? < 1326067294 9048 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067295 159186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You mean Maybe a = Nothing (exists b. b) | Just a? < 1326067299 755753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing exists? < 1326067309 185494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing exists, just a. < 1326067311 761670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FAR OUT, DUDE < 1326067318 22909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if, like, NOTHING EXISTED < 1326067322 778944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus objectivism. < 1326067333 289039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=a < 1326067334 401053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=_|_ < 1326067339 204699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is bottom. < 1326067360 322762 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The real solution is to have GHC give that treatment to everything. < 1326067369 71550 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So any constructor has a hidden field for storing an optional _|_. < 1326067384 937951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know, I might not object to < 1326067390 629947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hide :: String -> a -> a < 1326067394 77539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seek :: a -> IO (Maybe String) < 1326067403 78280 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326067406 128855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... it would work. < 1326067410 843861 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326067414 607832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It wouldn't.) < 1326067422 181514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it's not preserved under .) < 1326067440 41596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The trick for mfail works specifically because you have to pack it manually in your type.) < 1326067443 934261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So your (>>=) handles it.) < 1326067449 521625 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067459 661328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... kind of support this solution now. < 1326067463 69159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting that to happen. < 1326067473 706951 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No you don't. < 1326067485 352351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you like to think you do. But if you thought about it some more I'm sure you wouldn't. < 1326067485 508660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I kind of do? < 1326067500 6577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, can *you* come up with a decent argument against it? < 1326067527 228217 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than "it's evil"? < 1326067540 571842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's as evil as error and asynchronous exceptions. < 1326067554 862788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty low level of evil for Haskell. < 1326067574 272563 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1326067592 620797 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has a certain charm to i. < 1326067604 687914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That charm is imaginary. < 1326067605 958922 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you go propose it in #haskell? < 1326067615 866602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Maybe later. < 1326067635 130732 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you write a proposal on SO? < 1326067637 190991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I might think it's a good idea, but I'm also sane enough to know everyone will think I'm crazy. < 1326067638 934035 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326067654 623260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No discussion allowed, dude! You have to phrase it as "Would this be a good idea?". < 1326067658 548050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope it's not closed for being non-constructive. < 1326067701 244493 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THOSE INTUITIONIST FASCISTS. < 1326067730 713073 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Google has one result for "intuitionist fascist". < 1326067737 393340 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326067759 352913 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a band name < 1326067770 219512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jstor.org/pss/1953935 < 1326067771 12804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :riveting < 1326067797 405489 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just too abstract for you. < 1326067800 775136 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't handle it. < 1326067938 100462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326067939 209616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326067957 727421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you actually sleep? < 1326067964 350102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said you were going to and then reappeared. < 1326067980 481411 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did sleep! < 1326068011 283437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326068019 687786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326068148 577902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh i have a hunch what your problem is. you may be confusing the polynomial and the arithmetic hierarchy. < 1326068181 647134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :being inside PSPACE applies to the former, being undecidable and stuff applies to the latter. < 1326068190 251582 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god Acme::Comment < 1326068194 251044 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has so many comment styles... < 1326068194 920509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you make Stack Overflow's rankings update quicker? < 1326068197 556265 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can use. < 1326068203 208059 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlambda comments < 1326068240 502316 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I have insider information on what the rankings will be like on the next update. < 1326068246 128356 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RANKINGS: < 1326068249 256982 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 ehird < 1326068263 978903 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stops there. < 1326068264 771396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Already is on at least one ranking: http://stackoverflow.com/tags/haskell/topusers < 1326068290 65095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while both can be thought of as alternating quantifiers, and so may have an algorithm such as tarski-kuratowski applies to them, they do it in a different way. iirc, in the polynomial hierarchy you want all the variables to be polynomially _bounded_, while in the arithmetic hierarchy bounded quantification is ignored. < 1326068290 382060 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/tags/monads/topusers < 1326068309 45246 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations < 1326068325 902693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is nomadic. < 1326068369 489493 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/tags/higher-rank-types/topusers < 1326068378 597155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Man, you're just winning that popularity contest. < 1326068410 437563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yessss < 1326068421 332669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applied < 1326068444 120044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: World Expert in Higher Rank Types in the last 30 days. < 1326068447 862397 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:/,/ < 1326068489 358484 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ehird fellow on SO is really polite and well-spoken and what not. < 1326068497 997230 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try to be more like him/her. < 1326068522 64631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He's actually Don Stewart claiming the identity of another to deflect backlash against his aggressive Haskell evangelism. < 1326068523 411950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::tinfoil: < 1326068542 428806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, the thing is that I'm polite in exchange for meaningless internet points. < 1326068547 699365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't give me the right kind of meaningless internet points here. < 1326068554 97218 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My attempt to be gender-neutral there only sort of worked. < 1326068560 997060 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "gender-neutral there only sort of worked" < 1326068562 740373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?top < 1326068562 897365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Top Quotes < 1326068594 437829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives elliott a swat point -----### < 1326068621 667243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See, that's the wrong kind. < 1326068633 506010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPOSSIBLE < 1326068633 662539 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not so meaningless now, are they? < 1326068687 10667 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you could trade SO rep for bitcoins? < 1326068701 884613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then I'd have *two* kinds of meaningless internet point. < 1326068719 392727 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as far as I know bitcoin translates to real money I think... < 1326068736 986099 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITCOIN BITCOIN BITCOIN. < 1326068744 904403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I can buy drugs with SO rep too. < 1326068768 647285 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not. < 1326068792 290527 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would sell elliott drugs for SO rep. < 1326068792 925345 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless some drug user is looking to get some made SO rep. < 1326068795 229619 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/made/mad/ < 1326068805 350155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: s/user/dealer/ < 1326068825 960566 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very difficult for a user to become a dealer in this situation. < 1326068847 796581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How much?!?!?!?!?! < 1326068850 531393 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to become a drug dealer at least temporarily: 1) have drugs 2) want to sell drugs 3) someone wants to buy your drugs < 1326068863 285212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK maybe a Mac Lane party wouldn't be such a completely terrible idea? <-- it's a bit of a close call. < 1326068875 749295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK where's the pun. < 1326068876 225545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Mac LAN party, that is. < 1326068880 748893 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you ever transfer SO karma? < 1326068882 530456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you. < 1326068884 589043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Bounties. < 1326068890 703528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But abuse would get cracked down on pretty quickly. < 1326068902 339478 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially abuse related to drug trafficking < 1326068906 815203 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1326068909 410711 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to mess with that Spolsky fellow. < 1326068912 804485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yw < 1326068920 608998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I still don't get it. < 1326068931 235279 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacLane party?! < 1326068933 698596 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Acme::Comment doesn't have brainfuck-style comments. < 1326068934 845661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a LAN party, with Macs. < 1326068939 414403 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should submit a patch < 1326068941 751123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that a close call. < 1326068948 203015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry, only me and PH are invited. < 1326068954 627829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because neither of us know category theory. < 1326068959 941639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326068962 162779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we're not working mathematicians. < 1326068967 21827 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta do category theory at a MacLane party. < 1326068968 962474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just one letter away, duh < 1326068971 539755 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mac Lane -> Mac LAN ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1326068984 269205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I GET THAT PART < 1326068986 802081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the close clal part < 1326068987 912126 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Hey, that mockery should be directed at me. < 1326068997 276942 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha < 1326069001 118909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326069005 339262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I made an original pun. < 1326069015 873890 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was making a pun on Mac LAN which was making a pun on Mac Lane. < 1326069019 443371 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no really I'm going to see if I can patch brainfuck comments into Acme::Comment < 1326069022 461158 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be so good. < 1326069023 890770 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is completely oblivious. < 1326069046 632780 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine brainfuck comments in perl source... yesssssss < 1326069052 733676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brainfuck comments" < 1326069060 585044 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326069062 693763 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck comments < 1326069070 434634 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined as anything that is not a valid brainfuck instruction < 1326069124 39624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i sense a bit of a problem there < 1326069129 546072 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1326069131 9955 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem? < 1326069133 166219 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1326069164 94545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i don't think you can do much perl programming using only brainfuck instruction letters. < 1326069172 199665 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1326069175 92779 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the importance < 1326069180 675963 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the import thing is comment syntax < 1326069180 832676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326069184 44427 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl needs all the comments < 1326069202 303506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it _would_ improve readability a lot. < 1326069208 758778 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::Comment even supports perl comments < 1326069216 873042 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Acme::Comment type => 'Perl'; < 1326069231 915095 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with Python and AWK comments < 1326069238 374595 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are also supported < 1326069297 32110 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: Haskell comments < 1326069319 925768 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't document that it supports the {- -} form < 1326069323 370234 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just mentions the -- form < 1326069490 31879 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome intercal comments < 1326069544 462854 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(100) DO NOTE THAT the following perl code uses intercal comments < 1326069616 417970 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mention anything require just the right amount of PLEASE < 1326069619 361177 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+about < 1326069624 33693 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requiring < 1326069949 983497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is INTERCAL case sensitive < 1326069997 316260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually see intercal commands written in uppercase form but I don't really know. < 1326070033 683159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326070092 326460 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my %x = (1, 2, 3, $x{1}); print %x < 1326070095 337672 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1326070104 805898 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. it would be cool if you could actually do that. < 1326070985 306732 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326072342 300252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-liftM2(,)"ab" < 1326072343 131044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num [a2], GHC.Enum.Enum [a2]) < 1326072343 289369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1326072362 330806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-liftM(,)"ab" < 1326072363 123447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[b]' < 1326072363 319106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `b1 -> (a1... < 1326072454 365187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-mapM(,)"ab" < 1326072455 157491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('a',0),('a',1),('b',0),('a',2),('b',1),('a',3),('b',2),('a',4),('b',3),('... < 1326072680 682721 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: congrats < 1326072700 749427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1326072735 248049 :Tinman-811!~Tom@static-71-162-229-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326072792 886356 :Tinman-811!~Tom@static-71-162-229-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1326072795 457847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that was about < 1326072802 633991 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a fancy zipWith < 1326072830 401783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not zipWith < 1326072881 128265 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1326072887 153027 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean other than cycle being applied to "ab" < 1326072961 826016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. it's closer to liftM2(,) but it's not that either, if you look carefully. < 1326072974 613297 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1326073005 919547 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it like zipWith but slightly out of order? < 1326073034 380340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not particularly. < 1326073240 812716 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable `elem` [constant1, constant2] < 1326073253 469684 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if GHC unrolls this expression during compilation. < 1326073273 283580 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be difficult to do generally but I feel that it's possible. < 1326073299 173426 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to know that elem terminates. < 1326073544 18344 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if you had a special type of rule pragma, programmers could apply transformations at compile-time under the condition that an argument is a constant. < 1326073630 697727 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... really for lists that could be handled automatically. If it's determined that a function has a terminating condition and is applied on a constant list < 1326073833 276654 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326073833 432955 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074004 209024 :shi7brix!~NKasio@167.Red-88-15-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074010 730809 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074010 886989 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074027 810785 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074072 650242 :shi7brix!~NKasio@167.Red-88-15-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PART :#esoteric < 1326074106 917441 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326074130 408364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense that the test might not be entirely successful. < 1326074132 508256 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074132 664712 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074460 395717 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074460 551909 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074505 892097 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1326074926 151367 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326075048 374124 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326075148 608212 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1326078150 700032 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326078983 644801 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1326078993 474676 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1326079692 634048 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326080146 634346 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326080192 553696 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --italian --eng-all 25 < 1326080204 176882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :luciamoraca denun incrivald pungerait reto delanoscoute fiempt acorito buti adthroehoull pati syj nurerà sbile esis p6rime sobron coull's dillework instricaven prek ressimo getaskau schiger invivam < 1326080271 185143 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :p6rime.. < 1326081618 345540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326081827 906208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326082064 388649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326084426 254538 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326084501 561128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326084696 684570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326084747 131070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added one idea to esolang list of ideas < 1326085142 778511 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote this idea: If you use a variable where a specific type is expected, it is an implicit cast and it changes the actual value of the variable to that casted value too, rather than only reading it, and there isn't much other way to affect values of variables. < 1326085318 60919 :qubital!~kmklz@c-98-197-84-133.hsd1.tx.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326085447 252030 :qubital!~kmklz@c-98-197-84-133.hsd1.tx.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1326085955 96611 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326086467 544725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas Now I moved some of the sections, and now I added one more thing which mentions the [[User:Zzo38/Astro-Q]] article so it is no longer completely irrelevant < 1326086635 880320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there is one section for music, one section for mathematics, one section for physics, one section for implementation, etc < 1326087155 301233 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326087179 649711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now added a "Game" section too. < 1326087207 313963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the reorganization < 1326087296 764450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1326087371 294643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have added two additiona entries to the page: < 1326087376 720090 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Programming language using TeX DVI output as the program code. < 1326087386 350702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Physics of planets/astronomy tells the program what to do (possibly by using astrological signs or aspects or whatever). Possibly make such an esolang feature usable with User:Zzo38/Astro-Q < 1326087923 987151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I have even done more reorganization to the list of ideas < 1326088091 304134 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it better now? < 1326088800 712213 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks the same as the last i looked < 1326088813 365008 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too lazy to check history < 1326088850 942924 :Guest554116!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :Quit: ! < 1326091311 328179 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091407 146280 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091407 302760 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326091407 302911 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091596 1509 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 161447 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 161608 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317633 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317807 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317886 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 473884 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 473980 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 474025 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 474067 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091800 702886 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859209 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859379 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859464 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859541 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859659 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859738 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859815 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091835 184597 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326091942 528759 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326092706 641660 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326092775 359055 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326093126 288056 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So,,, does it understand,,, now??? < 1326094217 661569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326094655 938071 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326094781 685233 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326095735 978805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326095828 136152 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/cookie.html#Cookie.SerialCookie it's great that the standard library has such a convenient function which is so incredibly dangerous < 1326095844 339212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stores any Python value in a cookie! This will cut your balls off, 100% guaranteed." < 1326096222 378262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least it's deprecated. < 1326096374 10026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gone in 3.x. < 1326096960 97950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pickle strings can be crafted to cause arbitrary code to execute on your server" < 1326096967 309875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make it sound difficult < 1326097054 117466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the utmost expert criminals can craft such strings, and it takes months of meticulous work. < 1326097075 526829 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I usually just buy a pre-crafted string on the black market. < 1326097085 5810 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, once you use it, it can never be used again. < 1326097892 83043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-crafted by loving artisans according to the traditional ways of a bygone era < 1326098123 474014 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, deprecating it is just a hilariously inappropriate response < 1326098151 964199 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good if upgrading Python breaks code using this function < 1326098173 617713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that code is almost certainly exploitable < 1326098206 58661 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We live in a world that deprecated gets, instead of redefining it to have semantics of "#error YOU ARE A MORON" < 1326098239 64363 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326098240 174225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's not so bad < 1326098243 225142 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as bad < 1326098261 216539 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose it's *theoretically* possible to use gets securely... < 1326098265 877769 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lot of C code which is never going to be run setuid or as a remotely accessible service < 1326098284 854854 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've redefined stdin to be a pipe, and your process is on the other end. < 1326098331 235937 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas most web services try to enforce some separation between "users who can submit unauthenticated HTTP requests" and "users who can execute arbitrary code as the server" < 1326098334 401011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or run by a end user? < 1326098346 625031 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ? < 1326098351 819425 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want input to a program deleting ~ < 1326098361 911418 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326098368 624784 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :running such a program on untrusted input would also be bad < 1326098425 500389 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C has a standard saying you need to provide gets() < 1326098443 733974 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python does whatever the fuck they want < 1326098462 988467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in both cases i'd support hiding it behind some flag that requires positive action to be enabled < 1326098484 876263 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C11 removed gets(), it seems. < 1326098487 616606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1326098492 269028 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the attitude that a vulnerability isn't a vulnerability if it's documented in some document nobody reads < 1326098513 702649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though POSIX still mandates it. < 1326098546 35783 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way in my Python 2.7.2+, SerialCookie does not raise a DeprecationWarning, and help(Cookie.SerialCookie) gives no warning about security < 1326098567 417129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a strictly conforming POSIX app SHALL NOT use it. < 1326098583 282913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does say "IF AN INCOMING VALUE IS NOT IN A VALID PICKLE, FORMAT, THEN AN EXCEPTION WILL BE RAISED. Note: Large cookie values add overhead because they must be retransmitted on every HTTP transaction. Note: HTTP has a 2k limit on the size of a cookie. This class does not check for this limit, so be careful!!!" < 1326098593 881162 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's really important < 1326098599 233387 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's kind of ridiculous. < 1326098611 756485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it ends in "be careful!!!". < 1326098615 279791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be careful!!! of gasoline fumes (while you're taking a chainsaw to the groin) < 1326098616 434970 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you know to be careful. < 1326098619 356578 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326098648 764520 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my software is 100% secure < 1326098655 990195 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the documentation says "this program may have bugs, don't trigger them" < 1326098658 718179 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once the user has been told that they should be careful, it's no longer the library author's fault if something bad happens. < 1326098668 391537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a security bug, then you have violated the software contract < 1326098726 256892 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention the law of least surprise. < 1326098778 26609 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't be held responsible for what happens if people use the software out of spec < 1326098796 660993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be held responsible for my actions against people who write unreasonable specs. < 1326098799 719072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326098827 938398 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot like secure programming in C < 1326098833 153429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one simple rule < 1326098839 761293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make any mistake, ever. < 1326098842 849724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Where would Ksplice be if people didn't write bugs? < 1326098861 168887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, feature upgrades! < 1326098897 650778 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every day you could download new microoptimizations < 1326098918 362188 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that ksplice'd functions are slightly slower to call, but oh well) < 1326098940 696653 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of an added jump? < 1326098945 50862 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326098952 566789 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beginning of the old function is overwritten with a jump to the new < 1326098956 308744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Broken window fallacy? :) < 1326098981 826326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Clever solution. < 1326098990 593387 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Presumably if you patch a function multiple times, it will only ever get one extra jump, though, right? < 1326098992 227368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also other entry points to the old function, if there are any) < 1326099001 68983 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably also the only way of doing any hot-patching of a binary. < 1326099016 412658 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it's not that clever, it's probably the least interesting thing about how ksplice works < 1326099022 249457 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I don't recall < 1326099079 613990 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the more interesting parts of Ksplice? < 1326099083 579002 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just read the paper. < 1326099101 651982 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more interesting is the fact that ksplice can patch a static function, or can patch in new code which calls a static function < 1326099106 848595 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not relying on the exported symbols list < 1326099127 783290 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, ksplice works automatically from basically whatever happens to be the running kernel. < 1326099139 759212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326099146 95221 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which gives you a lot of work to do before you even have a hope of hot-patching... < 1326099160 767791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a source tree for the kernel you're currently running < 1326099208 417342 :xandy!~xandy@unaffiliated/xandy PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1326099209 573120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when preparing a patch, you build the old and new code with gcc -ffunction-sections < 1326099211 869049 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326099243 333538 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ksplice tools do a content-aware diff on the resulting object files < 1326099298 521417 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using -ffunction-sections means that you have a relocation for every call < 1326099402 392743 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given call instruction in the binary, you know by name which function is being called, even if it's non-exported < 1326099424 801307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime, you compare the pre-patched code you built with the actual running kernel, instruction by instruction < 1326099469 332051 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for safety but it also allows you to find the load addresses of those non-exported functions < 1326099562 7338 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you see that same call instruction again, and decode its target < 1326099631 883007 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With inline functions I suppose you just patch the function calling it? < 1326099640 379669 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326099657 149700 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tools work at the binary level, and so are mostly oblivious to inline functions etc. < 1326099676 712119 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change a function which is inlined to 20 callers, it looks like you changed those 20 functions < 1326099690 918700 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is awkward because patching more code => bad, but there's really no way around it) < 1326099735 740791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sometimes a change in the code for one function will cause gcc to change its mind about register allocation in an unrelated function < 1326099740 572638 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1326099749 437022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you end up patching both < 1326099773 944826 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though they were working on solutions to that problem, but I probably should not talk about them) < 1326100045 933796 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so yeah, it only works from whatever happens to be the running kernel, if you can replicate a build environment for that kernel < 1326100056 482082 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of the value the commercial service added, versus the open-source tools < 1326100115 831718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the admins at Billy Bob's Discount VPS and Fried Chicken probably don't have the time or skills to make a bug-compatible copy of the CentOS 5 kernel build environment < 1326100144 648770 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's true that it works on kernels which were built with no knowledge of ksplice < 1326100169 152761 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were proud of hot-patching machines which were last booted before the company or product existed < 1326100207 517988 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other interesting thing about ksplice is the way it ensures that you're not splicing a function that's currently in use < 1326100222 59787 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically, it scans every kernel stack < 1326100228 580309 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a bunch of subtlety and trickiness to that < 1326100283 746718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has this great feature called stop_machine which... does what it says on the tin < 1326100329 175969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives your code complete control of the (OS-visible behavior of) processors < 1326100354 122418 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it's tricky and buggy and double so if you're talking about supporting RHEL4 which means 2.6.9 < 1326100440 31205 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long did Ksplice make a machine unresponsive, in bad cases? < 1326100442 724610 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming it did.) < 1326100479 770631 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtuozzo 4 has a bug which makes stop_machine very slow < 1326100497 205777 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, it's probably a few ms at worst < 1326100510 610642 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the prep work is done outside stop_machine < 1326100547 881870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading the update (which is itself a kernel module) and matching the code < 1326100604 854315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the stack check inside stop_machine fails, then it gives up the CPU before trying again < 1326100613 243925 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously, because nothing's going to change if it doesn't) < 1326101034 106344 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326101181 481794 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... RHEL 4 is still supported oh my god why < 1326101433 958866 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326101689 563324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326101941 151440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102143 785812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102237 287484 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a smug yuppie kmc is. < 1326102264 110262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326102273 20211 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are wrong about trains on the internet < 1326102659 968807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I not know about Hampture until now. < 1326102725 426553 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326102784 775523 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102888 404774 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why? because people would pay for it :D < 1326103193 119676 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326103648 743756 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326103677 270692 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326103862 925837 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326104124 672979 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you prefer python style nesting or c style nesting: tabs or {} ? < 1326104230 32086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python doesn't use tabs, it uses indentation. < 1326104267 265839 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can use tabs < 1326104304 328516 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326104392 508445 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any preference? < 1326104478 464126 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see that brackets are better for pasting code here < 1326104537 796257 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:16 < shachaf> Python doesn't use tabs, it uses indentation. < 1326104550 706789 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf wins the Pedantic Point of Year award. congratulations! < 1326104558 897139 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the Year < 1326104568 161086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you were just Russian. < 1326104590 822152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti wins generosity 2012 < 1326104633 773389 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt because of my revolutionary searchlog tool of the year. < 1326105094 508014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326105483 883359 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326105719 615310 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326105862 393655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326105897 949540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… the department has been trying to persuade people (including me) to add "follow us on twitter: https://twitter.com/uobcompsci" to their signatures < 1326105912 988122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, I'm going to discharge my CIVIC DUTY by mentioning it once in #esoteric < 1326105935 807409 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a UOB? < 1326105965 959155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Choosing to Study MSc Computer Science at Birmingham was a life transforming decision for me." < 1326105987 995436 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 PRINT Tweets from the School of Computer Science at the University of Birmingham; 20 GOTO 10 < 1326106021 875225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read it; should I? < 1326106034 558047 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much point. < 1326106069 471184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326106081 489964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually entirely sure who runs that account < 1326106091 118325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ it's a consortium of staff, of which some are trolling the others < 1326106114 265910 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They followers/followees ratio isn't as good as mine. < 1326106118 947830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume that you detest Twitter and all who use it because of some technical faux pas or other they've made? < 1326106119 421963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems a reasonably active account, though. < 1326106132 269946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't actually detest Twitter at all < 1326106140 571485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm annoyed at the way it uses JavaScript, that's about it < 1326106142 196715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest own twat seems to be: "And so begins the countdown to the first personal hygiene related mail of the year." < 1326106151 945184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks interesting *loads log* < 1326106168 258103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a recently started thing, too. < 1326106173 247826 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load slog. < 1326106193 375828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, that too < 1326106212 311249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could retweet a couple of fungot tweets, that's always the sure road to success. < 1326106212 469993 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: like a very clear mirror to break, luckwise. it is a good idea. i will go and make a tent down a gas tank < 1326106253 269555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You've got like 19 followers. (Most of them seem to want to sell something.) < 1326106253 425813 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you try again. you feel stupid and hate yourself a very official? you'll be up to your first time either. < 1326106255 538788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it wouldn't even be entirely offtopic < 1326106257 797845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only /mostly/ offtopic < 1326106296 160544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: context is that the university I work for are trying to persuade its employees to put a link to their twitter account in their signatures < 1326106315 924887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, fungot tweeted "cfunge may already work that way" 12 hours ago. < 1326106316 119197 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to the left is that house shape you've seen everything! i just can't get a clear shot and killed some powerful monsters with his new hammer < 1326106327 430773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG fungot has twitteR?? < 1326106327 587063 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a little later... a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island < 1326106330 125334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*twitter < 1326106376 751159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: E's even customized eir page background to have the source code in it. < 1326106391 257931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Aren't you just the cleverest bot. *pat* < 1326106391 414355 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island, but honestly i've only read a few books on it. < 1326106397 451542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no sense in which this is not the best. < 1326106435 11273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1326106435 210113 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1326106441 606234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some day I should stick in more styles in the twitter-poster, it's only got four at the moment. < 1326106544 836795 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use all the styles! < 1326106632 760330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: context is that the university I work for are trying to persuade its employees to put a link to their twitter account in their signatures <-- I saw that in the log < 1326106654 442240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Heh, fungot tweeted "cfunge may already work that way" 12 hours ago. <-- hm, did it specify what way? < 1326106654 598561 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a veteran of the game in the first place, so he can just button it < 1326106668 832688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that made perfect sense. < 1326106676 635030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also got a link to the twitter page? < 1326106701 19843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://twitter.com/fungot -- and not really, though the previous "About IRC" tweet was: ":) i'll have none of that is not discrete. the server is in delphi right now" < 1326106701 175729 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? < 1326106708 773442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : OMG fungot has twitteR?? <-- yes, I had forgot about it though. Was ages ago it was last mentioned < 1326106708 929917 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. < 1326106726 539134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, definitely not about cfunge then < 1326106726 697677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it could be that cfunge is discrete? Or in Delphi? < 1326106750 778766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not the latter last I checked < 1326106757 894980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The immediate preceding tweet was "About Chrono Trigger: him. and only the hero can wield your sword with you until then. would you mind if i walked around with you for a..." < 1326106758 212146 :rupsbant!~rupsbant@81.83.13.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326106765 740528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that would be related to cfunge. < 1326106768 475052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and since it runs on a computer it is probably discrete yes < 1326106772 129304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you wield swords in it often? < 1326106786 404455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in real life or in RPGs? < 1326106801 421563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cfunge. With cfunge. I don't know, somehow related to cfunge. < 1326106804 136525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life I don't think I ever wielded a sword < 1326106806 990473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in cfunge < 1326106819 406263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a metaphorical sword, I guess. < 1326106824 999843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge doesn't even implement SWORD (it could in 64-bit mode maybe?) < 1326106825 793154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sword of optimization, or something. < 1326106871 110336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is probably one of those dual-edged things < 1326107141 217031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Premature sword is bad. Sometimes it's best leave the sword to the compiler. It's often profitable to sword your algorithms instead of swording the implementation. A profile-guided sword can be more effective. Hmm. < 1326107250 582377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1326107383 339458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, from #nethack, an object lesson of "be careful what you wish for": < 1326107383 339641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : dingo (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 Staff of Aesculapius", on turn 992 < 1326107383 339745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : dingo (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 204 points, killed by touching The Staff of Aesculapius < 1326107400 463772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand the point of these java API docs: "This protected field is implementation specific." Why even document that it exists if you can't use it in a sane way? < 1326107439 818903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume it says that protected field must exist just that you can't use it portably? < 1326107478 103031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1326107508 294766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah I haven't played nethack for over a year, which class is that staff for? Was it priest? < 1326107529 614657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Healer. < 1326107531 994083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326107572 77788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Asclepius (play /æsˈkliːpiəs/; Greek: Ἀσκληπιός Asklēpiós [asklɛːpiós]; Latin Aesculapius) is the God of Medicine and Healing in ancient Greek religion. -- The rod of Asclepius, a snake-entwined staff, remains a symbol of medicine today, --" < 1326107591 995123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the snake-on-a-stick thing. < 1326107607 645929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*One* of the snake-on-a-stick things. < 1326107627 293053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; but isn't the other one the snakes-on-a-stick? < 1326107635 579079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, when I was small I used to think it was somehow related to doctors curing you from poisonous snake bites < 1326107646 905572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wasn't very clear on the details of it) < 1326107669 286051 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326107678 336681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also that needs to be a movie < 1326108220 28441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.plasticbrickautomaton.com/?id=87 < 1326108240 179080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen this comic before, a long time ago, but it is now 10,000 times better. < 1326108242 321560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there still? < 1326108247 399774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326108282 326475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm trying to make sense of java generics. If you have say Foo how do you say that T must be a class that implements interface Bar? < 1326108297 779425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1326108301 324581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108313 720244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no way to specify more than one interface there? < 1326108322 745719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1326108335 655894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108476 152218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also while java does seem to have enum a lot of stuff seems to use plain integer constants instead, were enums added recently or something? < 1326108488 206963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's one of the few languages that actually has proper notation for covariance and contravariance in templates < 1326108500 970414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are a) nobody uses it, and b) the semantics are wrong < 1326108505 51026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In 1.5 (5.0), so that's reasonably recently. < 1326108507 602238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108519 771104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why stuff like BorderLayout doesn't use it < 1326108679 5970 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326108679 162332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326108718 729834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are the docs just incomplete or can't you specify the value if a enum constant? Like you can in C. < 1326108754 850860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1326108766 144243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're free to add a field for any custom manually specified data. < 1326108773 85074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then specify those in the constructors. < 1326108780 105623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1326108789 706873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the "raw" integer values, I think those are always consecutive from 0..N. < 1326108809 799926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I need to match external values here, and they happen to be sparse so. Meh. < 1326108823 569600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, add a field for it, then. < 1326108869 829802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all: 0 is not a valid value for example. So either I would need a dummy value or just do it without enum < 1326108879 567874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or adding a field for every one) < 1326108886 528358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean. < 1326108935 136802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :public enum Meh { ZONK(1), FLONK(42), BONK(1000); public final int zlorbvalue; Meh(int zlorb) { zlorbvalue = zlorb; } } .... Meh k = ZONK; ... dothezlorb(k.zlorbvalue); ... < 1326108937 711224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing. < 1326108945 930200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you write it like that. Okay. < 1326108987 569237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make the constructor populate a static Map if you want to have a static method so you can have Meh.fromZlork(42) == Meh.FLONK. < 1326109021 118078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, zlorb == zlork here. < 1326109028 403740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326109044 336270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a rather hackish solution to handle this. < 1326109227 573361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only built-in thing is the Meh.values() which returns a Meh[] where the indices correspond to the "ordinals" (i.e. the Meh.ZONK.ordinal() value); you can't really have a sparse set there. < 1326109237 662114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you put some dummies in. < 1326109261 375834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's slightly discouraged to care about the actual numeric values of the ordinals, anyway. < 1326109275 624926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want something meaningful, you can put the meaningfulness in explicitly. < 1326109298 417101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an issue I have with swing is figuring out what exactly an event listener triggers on. For some it is obvious, like mouseClicked, but what does an actionPerformed do on a JButton? < 1326109318 219154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume it is when the button is activated either through the keyboard or the mouse? < 1326109531 772274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it gets twoggled, yes; I'm sure they've documented that stuff somewhere. < 1326109579 14761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An action event occurs, whenever an action is performed by the user. Examples: When the user clicks a button, chooses a menu item, presses Enter in a text field. The result is that an actionPerformed message is sent to all action listeners that are registered on the relevant component." < 1326109593 406782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swing tutorial trail; I have no idea where it is in the reference docs.) < 1326109624 248262 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326109705 341232 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326109812 752452 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326109868 101702 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326110076 59112 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326110361 95053 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326110438 33918 :rupsbant!~rupsbant@81.83.13.22 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326110859 157332 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1326111059 55146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, I was mainly searching the reference docs for JButton and the ActionListener < 1326111065 118458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make sense if either of those had it < 1326111079 901352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also did look at super classes, AbstractButton or whatever it was) < 1326111174 769490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, JButton's main documentation does link to the whole 'Action' thing (where you can bind a single action into multiple controls, to have menu items and buttons that do the same thing and all get "configured" from one source); as well as the "How to Use Buttons" tutorial snippets. < 1326111184 765763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's "incorporated by reference", like the lawyers say. < 1326111200 12708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1326111269 563093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I realised that using enum is less convenient for another reason: I would end up casting to byte a lot then. < 1326111292 676156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you can set the backing type somehow) < 1326111333 924366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the ordinal, but of course the "zlorbvalue" can be a byte easily, if you want to have manually set values. < 1326111368 914804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326111516 156729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you want to follow the conventions, in my example above you should have a private field + public getter method instead. < 1326111572 452593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also "turn" is a somewhat confusing name in a turn based game where the players alternate making moves. You can either think of it as the period of one player making their move ("your turn" popping up on screen for that player) or as the period until the cycle between the player starts over < 1326111583 36007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good idea how to not confuse those two sense in naming < 1326111588 451509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of variables and so on) < 1326111638 759149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really the best person to ask, given how I well and truly I confused those in the AI course framework. :p < 1326111649 37383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326111657 849590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you *could* use the technical term "ply", but that's also liable to confuse some. < 1326111670 593156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also makes no sense in the case of tank wars < 1326111671 542705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326111675 135250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb food is ready < 1326111733 174542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ply: In two-player sequential games, a "half-turn", or one move made by one of the players." (Wiktionary.) < 1326111748 204471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: enums can have properties in Java < 1326111762 929185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even methods < 1326111769 865009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As seen in my enum Meh example, perhaps? < 1326111770 498817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could add your own getAsByte method on your enum < 1326111780 37536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1326111785 966455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a way back in scrollback, so I missed it < 1326111797 462244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right; well, yes, you could return the ordinal as a byte, too. < 1326111799 397514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been following the conversation, and was trying to weigh in from a screenful of scrollback < 1326111821 325052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The example was about having a sparse set of externally-meaningful numbers associated with each enum constant. < 1326111857 254004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course if you still use "turn" for the "whole thing", it's still sort-of confusing, and I'm not sure if there's a ply-like specifically specific word for that. < 1326112140 607792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ply: In two-player sequential games, a "half-turn", or one move made by one of the players." (Wiktionary.) <-- it is an n-player game though (for n up to suitable values on the current map, no restriction implemented in the server yet) < 1326112189 872595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I haven't been following the conversation, and was trying to weigh in from a screenful of scrollback <-- don't. elliott is going to complain a lot if you do that. He certainly does when I try to. < 1326112259 92998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely unrelated: they've installed a new coffee machine in our "new" (fsvo) coffee room, and it's... certainly... a thing... http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ju/jura-impressa-z5-coffee-machine.jpg < 1326112300 444594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slight suspicion that they've been bribed by the chemistry department to run some experiments, or something. There's no way a coffee machine needs that much machine. < 1326112316 414682 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also it's not even network-connected.) < 1326112320 832545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for some values of coffee room? < 1326112335 639762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326112354 64869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was the old one network connected? < 1326112363 958844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of "new". < 1326112386 287699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, but it was just your regular water-heater/plate/pot thing. < 1326112421 422650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326112425 71614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grinding selection wheel (9) is also below the bean container cover. Instructions for adjusting the fineness of the grind are inside the container cover." < 1326112449 35604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a PDF guide attached. < 1326112452 423469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it grinds the coffee bean on the fly? Impressive < 1326112465 484368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly I'm delighted I don't drink coffee; now I don't need to learn this thing. < 1326112474 232936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326112497 913071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get "ristretto" out of it. (Apparently it's like espresso, except more.) < 1326112567 482542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink coffee either. I'm not terribly clear on what you would get if you increased the espresso-ness of espresso. < 1326112586 537169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The resultant shot could be described as bolder, fuller, with more body and less bitterness. All of these flavors are usually attributed to espresso in general, but are more pronounced in ristretto." < 1326112592 436234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get more "body" in it. < 1326112599 875832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326112601 842198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's for mass-murderers instead of casual murderers? < 1326112606 570646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1326112678 434752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspicious of fluids where people use anything more complicated than, say, "sweet" or "salty" or "like but sourer" or such to describe them. < 1326112704 619203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wines are probably the worst example of that phenomenon. < 1326112973 846092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This wine is among the less corpulent examples in the lineup. Citrusy, with a very distinct, snappy mineral character, it is round with good, well proprtioned acidity." < 1326114675 645371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do guards without indentation? < 1326114697 857375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint don't indent < 1326114702 634773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326114704 79229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1326114706 775920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with { and } < 1326114872 64031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that sort of stuff < 1326114915 86396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I question if whoever said that ever tried to eat a representative set of minerals for example. < 1326114949 592786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm okay with "Citrusy" though. < 1326114974 112871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why don't you want to indent? < 1326114979 623182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC < 1326114990 9342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea how you do that < 1326115012 991548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried let f n { | blah = blah; | blah = blah } < 1326115015 399340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that didn't work < 1326115019 796510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the {;} < 1326115019 954868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried let f n { | blah = blah | blah = blah } < 1326115021 706719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work either < 1326115033 405401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't the {} be for the code after rather than for the guards there? < 1326115036 459033 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let f n | blah = blah | blah = blah < 1326115038 781289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so at least < 1326115059 847645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | n == True = 1 | n == False = 2 in f True < 1326115060 3779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=) < 1326115060 560571 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | n == 0 = 1 | n == 2 = 3; g = f in g 2 < 1326115060 719218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1326115060 916406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1326115061 426266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1326115064 468766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. < 1326115065 577213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that saddens me < 1326115076 885264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(makes sense of course) < 1326116026 863015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000 < 1326116027 655755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 207936082371334980721126489886428368250870360940159031196829458665285014234... < 1326116049 277055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000 < 1326116050 232540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 207936082371334980721126489886428368250870360940159031196829458665285014234... < 1326116058 972261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that actually does anything. < 1326116106 4547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n fibs) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116107 753420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116119 193343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n rwhnf) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116120 304432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326116120 464523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Control.P... < 1326116150 487213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116152 436212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116153 708288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 1000000000000 < 1326116155 497805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116156 929379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000000000 < 1326116158 680955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116160 472766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 1000000 < 1326116162 228074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116163 341097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326116165 287567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is done. < 1326116269 149444 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that'd have worked anyway. < 1326116445 79508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it works on the smaller inputs. but maybe that's not what you mean? < 1326116450 53408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used parallell strategies before. < 1326116478 461693 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU FIBBING BOY? < 1326116488 622414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326116501 900961 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't know that it's making any difference. < 1326116508 926880 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know. < 1326116548 599636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is. < 1326116680 167544 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the term for when you put "use caution but not too much;" or something in the beginning of all your code snippets even though you don't know what it means just because you've always done it and you don't want to break anything? < 1326116699 856213 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie once told me a term for it i think < 1326116752 328379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any actual parallelism is going on. the individual elements are evaluated too quickly. < 1326116801 536308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if say, calculating the nth fibonacci element requires non-constant amount of work and also depending on the value of N-1 and N-2, then you could take advantage of parallism. but it's just.. addition. < 1326116860 294415 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this is so very important < 1326116933 575690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326116955 404622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a good place to ask for help with homework questions? < 1326116959 17591 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326116966 455309 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they have to do with symbolic dynamics < 1326116971 537793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326116980 251300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they have to do with basic functional programming? < 1326116985 336423 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326116991 95640 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's trickier. < 1326117009 146695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would you need help on that? Or is it for dealing with marking such homework questions? < 1326117016 951953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't solve one of them < 1326117021 306394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tricky, given that I'm meant to mark it < 1326117024 442885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326117038 917232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's https://sites.google.com/site/focs1112/programming-assignments week 11 question 2 < 1326117046 264131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm quite interested to hear what it is then. And how students are expected to understand it < 1326117047 377221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not necessarily looking for the solution, just some pointers < 1326117051 878839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I /suspect/ the question is impossible) < 1326117065 647698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't know which term I might have told you. Unless you mean cargo cult programming. < 1326117077 694964 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's very easy < 1326117085 802079 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :amortized is the key term < 1326117086 917873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: double-ended? that's what's stumping me < 1326117093 772331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it has to be based on an interaction net queue < 1326117100 141066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326117104 32072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're allowed to do it in amortized constant time using any method you like, it's easy < 1326117120 366173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do question 1, which asks for the same operations using a different underlying data structure < 1326117128 568698 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326117140 181086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with the term "interaction net queue". What is that? < 1326117143 401512 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an interaction net queue+ < 1326117145 627684 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326117147 693887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know about difference lists in Prolog? < 1326117148 491295 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326117152 73401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nope < 1326117161 270140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't really know any prolog < 1326117176 949202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from a few basics things about the syntax < 1326117180 122733 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the point of a difference lists exactly that you can make a queue with it? < 1326117180 758905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's see, the concept is that you represent a queue (front)1,2,3,4(back) as lambda x. cons(1, cons(2, cons(3, cons(4, x)))) < 1326117183 393320 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once coded in prolog < 1326117185 60667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: indeed < 1326117199 375129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called an interaction net queue in the lists, for reasons I don't really understand < 1326117204 858510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. That is just a linked list < 1326117219 469522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well circular one < 1326117221 700863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it's not constant time or even amortized constant time in a language with OCaml's execution order, which is a more minor flaw in the question) < 1326117221 860034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1326117226 243085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, no? < 1326117239 128366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you'd consider lambda x. cons(1, cons(2, cons(3, cons(4, x)))) to be a circular linked list at all < 1326117251 738929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the last x mean then? < 1326117263 866861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's connected to the lambda x at the start < 1326117265 822318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't scheme syntax, which language is it? < 1326117266 934510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326117269 73154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a circular linked list would be Y (cons 1 . cons 2 . cons 3 . cons 4). < 1326117288 972724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this is mind-bogglingly dense, even by your standards. < 1326117290 757719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm. Okay right, I see that < 1326117296 25682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former not the latter) < 1326117325 653631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the usual way to write push-at-tail of x onto q would be lambda x'. q(cons(x, x') < 1326117332 422080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1326117336 931784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, now it makes sense < 1326117346 202848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push-at-tail is easy; push-at-head is easy; pop-from-head is easy < 1326117353 111872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pop-from-tail, I don't see how to get via that mechanism at all < 1326117375 751331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than popping the entire queue into a temporary data structure, which is of course not constant time even in a superstrict language < 1326117387 778753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the naive solution is simple enough, and you just said it as I was writing it out... < 1326117402 199312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the question specifically disallows that < 1326117474 436161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess there's programmers here who would find week 11 question 3 easier than week 11 question 1 < 1326117491 558278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you aren't allowed to use debugging modules or such to mutate the linked list? < 1326117494 775050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically comes down to "implement an imperative doubly-linked list", which is something people here have done a lot < 1326117504 608401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not really a linked list < 1326117509 527016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1326117511 310864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it /is/, but of lambda bodies < 1326117524 764714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not mathematically a linked list, even though it's going to be represented like that by an OCaml interp < 1326117543 848383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which would be the relevant part for the debugging modules anyway < 1326117581 828030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OCaml does allow mutation; that's what question 3's about < 1326117589 485850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that's not the underlying impl you're meant to use in question 2 < 1326117596 505415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326117606 706993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trivial to do this with mutation indeed. < 1326117628 843183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial but ugly, IMO < 1326117634 292079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1326117643 792151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't post my solution to that (and nor should you) in case some student of mine happens across it < 1326117660 345399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I couldn't do it in ocaml, don't really know that language < 1326117665 583685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do it in scheme though < 1326117668 158838 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have stacks, it seems very easy to do this, just keep the list in two stacks, one for the left half, one for the right, and balance when necessary < 1326117688 400896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's the answer to question 1 < 1326117693 123020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which asks you to do it like that < 1326117707 138379 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1326117734 54987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. You could implement it with a balanced binary tree too. < 1326117761 249664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly binary tree, it wouldn't be sorted as such based on keys < 1326117766 275891 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326117776 869361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's nothing inherently sorted about a binary tree < 1326117787 178074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although using them to maintain lists in sorted order is one of their main applications < 1326117808 328117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I'm used to thinking about a key in a binary tree, this one wouldn't have one < 1326117813 357261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is binary search tree < 1326117817 186646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed different < 1326117836 121744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw trees are awesome < 1326117860 210573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But if you *can* do a deque in amortized constant time with two stacks, *and* you can do a stack with constant-time push and pop with your "interaction net queue", why wouldn't a deque implemented with two "interaction-net-queue stacks" suffice for the question? < 1326117860 567842 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one time i made a red-black tree visualization where the nodes would move to their new places by applying force in that direction < 1326117867 431366 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :balancing looked awesome < 1326117872 86789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, nice < 1326117894 443556 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also made a binary heap, merge was like the best thing ever :D < 1326117898 827325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because you can make a queue from two stacks, but you can't make a stack from two queues < 1326117910 166337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you should try that on other tree variants to see which one looks coolest and then in the future decide which variant to use based on how it looks < 1326117916 392792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so AVL, AA and so on < 1326117924 930018 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you had two windows for building heaps and you could then merge them) < 1326117937 206453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: did the red-black tree visualisation actually use red and black? < 1326117944 90906 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1326117952 419858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should learn what a red-black tree is someday < 1326117955 553217 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what AA is < 1326117956 186886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but you just said push-at-head and pop-from-head are both "easy". < 1326117958 130985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I know the concept already but not the name < 1326117960 393180 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: learn 2,3 trees instead < 1326117964 716178 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you already do < 1326117977 91670 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do learn them, that is. whatever that means. < 1326117982 366535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but then you're not using the interactionnetiness at all < 1326117987 161520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what are 2,3-trees now again= < 1326117990 796161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably doesn't count as a solution to the question < 1326117991 113299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1326117998 171731 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1326118011 554952 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i said 2,3 trees i suppose i meant avl trees. let's see what's what... < 1326118031 908322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose, if you're debating intention; though literally speaking it just says "starting from the implementation", nothing else. Though wouldn't it be easier to just ask whoever made the question? < 1326118041 901510 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i meant avl tree < 1326118052 286556 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :avl trees are a sensible version of red-black trees < 1326118054 676362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I did ask, but I didn't get a useful answer < 1326118057 848499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you often see unusual and clever solutions to the questions that you didn't expect btw? < 1326118069 47478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: often, no < 1326118071 949918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do occasionally < 1326118088 360763 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently 2,3 trees are essentially the same as aa trees. < 1326118093 813469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when I got bored in basic programming courses I spent some time thinking up non-obvious and superior solutions to the expected ones. < 1326118101 412085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah okay. How do they differ then? < 1326118109 280342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you get bonus marks for shorter or faster solutions than the other students on this course < 1326118129 302219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter in terms of token count, where whitespace and comments don't count as tokens < 1326118129 976244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have implemented pretty much every kind of balanced binary tree. i decided avl was the ost sensible (though splay trees are a cool idea nonetheless) < 1326118135 354261 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know how they differ because i didn't quite check what they are. < 1326118142 800619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is strange. In Sweden at least I'm pretty sure the laws say that grading should not be competitive. < 1326118147 181413 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that they aren't avl trees. < 1326118148 133742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so in UK I guess? < 1326118160 145137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, the way it's done here is that the marks aren't binding < 1326118164 860287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really points, rather than marks < 1326118168 956402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1326118170 544610 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grading should totally be competitive < 1326118177 880799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are competitive, but don't have any direct input into the final grade on the course < 1326118199 225254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what is the point? Making sure everyone passes a minimum level? < 1326118210 5657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and doesn't this mean you encourages golfing btw? :D < 1326118212 543146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to encourage people to get better at the course < 1326118214 723509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, I noticed that < 1326118223 175769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't at all try to discourage the people in charge of the course from doing it < 1326118238 516449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326118253 531332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone sniped a bunch of marks early by using "float" rather than "float_of_int"; it's the same number of tokens, but the first executes marginally faster < 1326118253 687913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm < 1326118254 841956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Our AI course competition results have no bearing for grading either, but it doesn't stop it from being quite a fundamental motivational thing. < 1326118259 393418 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ais' exact words on the subject were "MWAHAHAHA" < 1326118278 978864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what on earth is float_of_int? < 1326118286 242114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a conversion routine < 1326118289 616354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326118291 908081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes an int as an argument, returns a float with the same value < 1326118300 317403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1326118308 768529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all OCaml's conversion routines are named like that, except for the ones that aren't (which may be an empty set, I can no longer remember) < 1326118325 829392 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :float_of_float < 1326118351 214928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Possibly you might encourage people even more if you called them "achievements". That seems to work in getting people to do completely pointless tasks. < 1326118363 313643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but achievements tend to be booleans < 1326118382 277425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have a hundred of them < 1326118399 104597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and just using float does what? < 1326118415 687910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes there's sort-of a grade. One achievement of "did X in one minute", one for "did X in 30 seconds", one for "did X in 15 seconds", and so on. < 1326118429 119712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: exactly the same thing < 1326118448 903082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's some older primitive, and I suspect float_of_int's implemented in terms of it < 1326118453 462774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326118453 818541 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish the people who make these horrible mmorpgs did something useful with their lives and made achievement unlocked 4 < 1326118471 623429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they make a 3? I must've missed that. < 1326118475 431136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a third one? < 1326118501 675995 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :google returned stuff for 3 so :D < 1326118594 499227 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh and yes, that's the term i meant. < 1326118629 701766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't get the third one to run. Weird. < 1326118656 405905 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the next link < 1326118660 212525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first hit (at muchgames.com) seems to be just #2 titled as #3. < 1326118673 97228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the achievementunlocked3.com didn't work for me either. < 1326118682 554559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that was the one I looked at < 1326118683 663369 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played 2 so okay < 1326118777 818595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, And Yet It Moves, along with its achievement called Gregor, also has an achievement called Random < 1326118782 211872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think just you get randomly < 1326118839 707622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait HashMap gives a syntax error on int? < 1326118841 929056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326118844 944201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with Integer < 1326118853 276512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because Integer extends Object. < 1326118855 184369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it required a boxed type? < 1326118855 660222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'int' doesn't. < 1326118857 921337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1326118864 229249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't work with primitives < 1326118866 480578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange it is a /syntax/ error though < 1326118869 216421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All generics need "real" objects. < 1326118875 483133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: int is a keyword < 1326118879 531970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot generics were just a compiler thing < 1326118884 330058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you generally can't use keywords in arbitrary contexts < 1326118888 292996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to actually existing in the byte code. < 1326118892 950019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Oh, damn, the Raspberry Pi has a minimum order quantity of one unit. I GUESS WE ALL HAVE TO GET ONE NOW. < 1326118893 266804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326118897 486129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT GOES FOR THE REST OF YOU < 1326119010 485639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't put an "int" into an old-style non-generic ArrayList either. Primitives are very special. < 1326119096 740761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does do that autoboxing, though, so you can use an HashMap pretty much like you'd use a hypothetical HashMap, at least as long as you don't care about efficiency. < 1326119222 455454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Speaking of which: given enum Moo, then an EnumMap is likely to be fasterer than a HashMap, if you need to map that way.) < 1326119320 314753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't need that here. I was mapping player ids to player objects < 1326119360 937842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this set might be sparse if a client disconnects btw) < 1326119594 35520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that there's a sort of self-balancing tree called a scapegoat tree < 1326119618 626400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if it'd be useful for the VCS, just due to the naming coincidence < 1326119634 743961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the problem is that self-balancing trees are one of those things that aren't obviously useless in any complex program) < 1326119672 986555 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326119776 290916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe if memory efficiency is important and you have a lot of very nodes with very small keys and data? < 1326119785 808272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember looking that up and getting really confused when Scapegoat first turned up. < 1326119805 351350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326119818 479571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/very// < 1326119821 862743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the main thing that self-balancing trees have to compete with is hash tables < 1326119845 762193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the problem with hash tables is the worst case complexity is not very good < 1326119879 128223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but the worst case also doesn't happen in practice, barring malicious input < 1326119882 301243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes even including malicious input < 1326119912 329064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I guess a hash table with an self balanced tree per bucket might be a good compromise? < 1326119915 410070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps you can invent some bogus reason why you need to iterate your map in sorted order too, and justify trees with that. < 1326119923 295566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rather than the usual linked list per bucket < 1326119942 701640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's generally inferior to just rebuilding the hash table to have more buckets < 1326119964 928941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But what if the user wants to list all (anythings) in SHA-X order? It's important we have an efficient way to do that." < 1326119966 918773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're ever getting a nontrivial number of keys in the same bucket, then either you've hit a pathological worst case or your hash table is more small < 1326119970 498081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in practice, usually the latter < 1326119975 225026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, but you have to be able to handle the case where both items hash to the exact same hash < 1326119997 970371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1326120008 470367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO hashes should be infinitely long to allow for that issue < 1326120014 105718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and truncated for use in hash tables < 1326120020 571685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326120082 42482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway this won't be an issue with, say, sha256, but that is kind of slow so depending on what you are using the hash table for a faster hash might be better) < 1326120138 493583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think hash tables normally use cryptohash < 1326120158 70136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326120174 127517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that very reason too < 1326120188 371233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl uses a fast hash operation with random parameters, so that collisions are hard to find due to not knowing precisely which hash function is being used < 1326120209 340736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have objects for which you need to keep around SHA-256 hashes for other reasons, it's reasonably natural to use those as hash table keys too. < 1326120209 867569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I assume, or at least hope, that there's no reasonable way to find a hash collision that works for all the possible hash functions) < 1326120236 297119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, selected per session or what? < 1326120252 955399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :per invocation of the perl(1) interpreter < 1326120265 288099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that is what I meant < 1326120279 26073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set the seed via env var if you need repeatability < 1326120290 642405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for, e.g., order of iteration over keys) < 1326120295 982268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use wol < 1326120313 24290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just" < 1326120339 349956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1326120364 930460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting an env var seems easier than using a program nobody but me dares run < 1326120378 954862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep expanding that to wake-on-lan. < 1326120382 774672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1326120398 705285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah, yes < 1326120751 814085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's a WoWLAN; a wake-on-wireless-LAN thing. (Nobody does it.) < 1326120784 825785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nobody supports it hm. Well not strange < 1326120806 636478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I seem to remember seeing that as a BIOS option on some system at some point. < 1326120809 200213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Intel chips can do it. < 1326120810 388546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm can't remember which one < 1326120816 822905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop? My dad's laptop? < 1326120817 970334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326120825 424534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have intel wireless so... < 1326121001 591353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How. Does. XKCDBucket. Know. About. Agora. < 1326121017 133342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. Why. Am. I. Being. Overdramatic. About. This. < 1326121028 428627 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326121403 915222 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may require sleep < 1326121450 754689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IN NO IST LAT WHEY CRATICT FROURE BIRS GROCID PONDENOME OF DEMONSTURES OF THE REPTAGIN IS REGOACTIONA OF CRE." Claude E. Shannon, 1948. < 1326121538 304764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words 15 # close kinship here < 1326121544 811207 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hun rungummimne exsto akesta lita dccclxivt erlayali thema brism gewa unspoii putobolle llle roninglobu idnen < 1326121581 135786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heuristic < 1326121659 959811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE HEAD AND IN FRONTAL ATTACK ON AN ENGLISH WRITER THAT THE CHARACTER OF THIS POINT IS THEREFORE ANOTHER METHOD FOR THE LETTERS THAT THE TIME OF WHO EVER TOLD THE PROBLEM FOR AN UNEXPECTED." Shannon again, in the same paper. < 1326121667 286809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Did you by any chance know this guy? < 1326121667 442744 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a well mannered query to ask what your names are. probably as a special boon for being so great. < 1326121715 473330 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326121715 790784 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326121715 946866 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326121731 769756 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326122094 241272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, In java: why is there both Color.BLACK and Color.black and which one is preferred? Neither is marked deprecated in the reference docs. < 1326122103 443143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same goes for the other predefined colours) < 1326122104 752241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know < 1326122108 205881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1326122201 340561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Color.BLACK: Since: 1.4. So that's why. < 1326122211 648857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a reasonably poor "why", but anyway. < 1326122241 966995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they'd deprecate one, they'd probably deprecate the does-not-follow-the-conventions lowercase one. < 1326122480 677780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326122956 613820 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326122962 609510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326122963 720248 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326123558 40429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326123606 287609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125637 320380 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131EC9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125677 823872 :kallisti!~eris@gate-22.spsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125678 300527 :kallisti!~eris@gate-22.spsu.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1326125678 456509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125885 54623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've got about 2 hours between classes to do homework or study in the library. < 1326125901 123769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided every day I'm going to come in here and, if I'm not too busy, pick up something and read it. < 1326125920 509356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION currently has the Computer Music Journal. < 1326127326 786612 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326127330 278009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326127331 547913 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326127389 480683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This "predict words from initial prefixes" text input keeps trying to say "cocks" whenever I start something with "co". < 1326127497 135516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ct" it predicts as "cthulhu". I think it has some sort of a learning system. < 1326127525 822364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how many words start with ct? < 1326127591 188768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 nouns, according to WordNet. < 1326127607 378541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one adjective. < 1326127620 866549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All /proper/ nouns? And/or cocks? < 1326127624 526880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's very generous with the definition of "word". < 1326127685 28891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ctenophore. < 1326127715 25350 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change CP violation, the original Trilogy: A new PHP (now with cocksthulu) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326127717 535328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fgjP < 1326127781 956475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that predictive input btw? < 1326127792 647770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suggests "cc65" for plain "c", so I'm thinking I'm still justified in believing it learns. < 1326127810 750986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: N900. As far as they go, it's not the most impressive one. < 1326127823 157695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you write "cocks" a lot? And cc65? < 1326127859 278476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd say "a lot", but I've no clue how it picks candidates. < 1326127876 369379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would cc65 even be? < 1326127876 525998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likely to have written both words at least once. < 1326127896 267165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a silly C compiler for 6502 and others. < 1326127900 117776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326127922 772511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it's assembler as a standalone thing, there's not too much wrong with it. < 1326127947 328614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler itself, as far as I've understood, is not terribly impressive. < 1326127970 410095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326127983 40394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trying to think of things using 6502 atm... < 1326127991 80072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64. NES. < 1326128000 160573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, NES is a close relative. < 1326128000 795516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant modernish things < 1326128004 801951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh. < 1326128022 619691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was going like "is it used in embedded things?" < 1326128027 420405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1326128048 555801 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326128054 350161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they make some related microcontrollers still. But those applications don't tend to advertise the CPU so much. < 1326128061 816979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326128062 609129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1326128140 901147 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326128146 886365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some modernish thing used the 65C816, a 16-bit derivative. < 1326128167 497304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Terminator (from the movie of same name) runs on a 6502. :p < 1326128168 964678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326128183 80782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what, do they say that in the movie? < 1326128189 35956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is just silly < 1326128199 10169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see 6502 assembly scrolling down when they show its eye-cam thing. < 1326128205 768591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1326128211 862041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does the program in question do? < 1326128212 920805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it runs on a 6502 < 1326128214 585295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably just wanted something techy-looking. < 1326128217 361976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it thinks in 6502 asm < 1326128251 598420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently it's an Apple DOS 3.3 disassembly. < 1326128278 667834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also shown is the output from a run of an Apple checksum program called KEY PERFECT 4.0, published in Nibble magazine." < 1326128288 574315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it doesn't mean that at all. It might just as well mean that 6502 asm display is part of the output from the visual circuits. < 1326128305 963869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futurama's Bender is explicitly stated to have a 6502 for a brain. < 1326128310 451105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not that it /thinks/ in that < 1326128352 211234 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders PART :#esoteric < 1326128768 326232 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326128854 539861 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326129574 738071 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders JOIN :#esoteric < 1326130361 601319 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1326131220 129598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so the alcohol is actually for coolant? < 1326131246 705847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Bender is basically Project E.U.N.U.C.H. advanced 1000 years? < 1326132192 347260 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-60.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326132201 402870 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326132675 845727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326133142 260438 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326133691 253635 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1326133980 283188 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326133993 417398 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-60.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326134032 895736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134257 746757 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134274 604005 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326134298 686413 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326134333 744061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134383 431034 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam spam. < 1326134404 322483 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evening, elliott < 1326134409 138064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@JFritsch: No PRNG consults an external source for each number; you just get the seed from there. You can create values of type StdGen (an instance of RandomGen) from a seed, and there's a global generator in IO presumably seeded from an external source. – ehird yesterday < 1326134409 293246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326134409 293443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326134409 293547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ehird for P RNGs you are certainly right. Otherwise "no" is a bit strong :D sqrtech.com. Good randomness is an issue in a web2.0 world and IO plays a heavy role in it. – J Fritsch 10 hours ago < 1326134409 449825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326134409 613804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326134409 769638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326134455 573918 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you see how I summoned conal? < 1326134462 283365 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37 < shachaf> rwbarton: Back in my day, reading a file *denoted* something! < 1326134462 440033 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:38 < conal> shachaf: :) < 1326134467 980321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :D < 1326134479 12032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if conal has "denote" on ping. < 1326134484 255450 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked him. < 1326134486 479510 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He claims not. < 1326134507 399144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he does have "*denote" on ping. < 1326134516 399242 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I was only going to say "spam" today. < 1326134519 31458 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he always has #haskell open on one monitor, but the words don't mean anything most of the time. < 1326134520 454894 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broke that rule pretty fast X_X < 1326134536 447931 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember how you asked me about 20 hours ago if I slept? < 1326134566 680679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326134580 508044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure you can guess what I haven't done since then. < 1326134589 147935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talked? < 1326134602 553165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges holy CRAP, somebody teach atrapado about preview < 1326134798 739782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good lawd < 1326134801 323096 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1326134806 459444 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you do that < 1326134818 745967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can I add quotes from other channels? < 1326134838 795909 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1326134841 901738 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1326134855 295118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm quoted from the MC server < 1326134860 295596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326134863 470806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may as well not, anyway < 1326134864 264057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Functors are not very interesting by themselves" < 1326134864 740662 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote communism < 1326134868 615945 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :487) This staircase is very good for correcting people's opininons about communism < 1326134872 893617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what quote? < 1326134893 972212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, as Gregor is implying, a bunch of old quotes are from elsewhere < 1326134921 108741 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote 1 turned out to be a bad example since that's exactly the kind of thing people would say in #esoteric ... < 1326134925 102337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : welcome to the internet its this this that the depatment of defense.... well, we'll skip that people look at kittens sometimes < 1326134940 84036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "As of 2011, the W65C816S [that 16-bit 65(C)02 derivative] is available from WDC in a 40 pin PDIP or PLCC44 package, as well as a core for ASIC integration (for example Winbond's W55V9x series of TV Edutainment ICs)." So at least those they still make. Not sure if anyone's still using the 65C02 cores, maybe. < 1326134942 28171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not good enough quality to add < 1326134952 586286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still surprisingly insightful < 1326134965 701814 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quotes aren't supposed to be insightful. < 1326134968 334034 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ex: < 1326134968 981884 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326134972 610003 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :209) "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is a vital part of the web ecosystem. However, bear in mind that we're tracing JavaScript, not MPEG and JPEG decoding." ^^^ This bullet-point is my crowning achievement as as a scientist. < 1326134981 637008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not insightful? < 1326135006 527538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, shouldn't it be <<< not ^^^ when the quote's collapsed into a single line like that? < 1326135014 643677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "its this this that the depatment of defense...." what < 1326135027 767138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an attempt to explain the Internet, before getting bored and summarising < 1326135035 839108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1326135038 772580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implication's that it's starting with the history < 1326135040 729006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, put some commas in randomly < 1326135041 523569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like summaries often do < 1326135042 559098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on different wavelengths here. < 1326135050 129828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1326135067 631093 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLIOTT < 1326135088 841306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My monad spiel is now my top SO answer. < 1326135104 996047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to kill the guy who asked it if he doesn't accept it, as currently it is my only top answer with a white background. < 1326135106 820117 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 137746 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 614576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 933273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135108 409504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135110 679624 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1326135122 785303 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :262) (the former is a very deep theorem, i'd have had to read the whole book to understand it, so i didn't.) < 1326135129 286762 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does "white background" mean "not accepted"? < 1326135156 848887 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1326135219 343853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1326135231 871444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :168) < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1326135232 69103 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :289) zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. < 1326135234 755614 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :52) Maternal instincts? Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops? < 1326135234 914476 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :641) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1326135249 811768 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: In a discussion about GCing lazy I/O handles so that readFile doesn't fail when you have too many open files: < 1326135251 980139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326135260 156720 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < shachaf> You could fork when you're about to have too many FDs open. :-) < 1326135263 292391 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < rwbarton> yes! let's spawn a new process and hand it file descriptors over unix sockets! :D < 1326135266 766928 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < rwbarton> Too bad kmc isn't here, he'd love this. < 1326135311 114903 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow. < 1326135312 434481 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain. < 1326135320 631955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135324 955948 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is kmc also in #esoteric nowadays? < 1326135327 260083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I want to know context for that < 1326135357 962063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, you're imagining things. < 1326135358 118637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-09-17.txt:20:33:11: 220| < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1326135364 863861 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see < 1326135369 549955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1326135369 709720 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island for the first time in i don't have a very exciting 24 hours or so. it'll just take a few tools out behind the woodshed and give it what the tablet asks, while the more recessive find less representation in the brood. especially strong matesprit? hahahaha! < 1326135375 814704 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck? < 1326135377 729929 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1326135377 887266 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1326135380 944237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knew it < 1326135389 946202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "birthday" that clued me in < 1326135390 898361 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1326135391 54929 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1326135393 639123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135395 783733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I like that style < 1326135396 617322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been homestuck on that style for so long. < 1326135400 471975 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-09-11.txt:17:34:14: then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135401 986413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: tell me more < 1326135402 179209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO < 1326135404 963582 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: HA < 1326135405 211565 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, the name given to the contact and support network, one of the sectors which interest you. you do not need any new officials to do that successfully, our interests are better protected than the potential average national rates if they had their own pensions. since 1 july last year, but equally unable to prove it is not possible to get this far. i agree with this if the regions, of course, everything that conce < 1326135410 732056 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I mistabbed you! < 1326135415 563959 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HA. < 1326135417 488896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patter nmatches are the best kind of nmatches. < 1326135417 939818 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HA HA HA < 1326135423 518362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ha. < 1326135428 34812 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it happens. < 1326135447 696023 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like your writing style, please write tutorials about everything you know < 1326135449 364793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't get mi-stabbed very often, in spite of "Gr" being a common-enough prefix. < 1326135476 890263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No < 1326135480 980246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326135486 869547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey shachaf, should I write a Haskell book? < 1326135504 347361 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes! < 1326135514 651536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this channel, only "co", "fi", "la" are suspectible to two-letter-mistabbings at the moment. < 1326135516 53595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should! < 1326135521 318722 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell: The C Perspective" < 1326135523 478495 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll give you magic meaningless Internet points for it. < 1326135529 215733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That already exists. < 1326135532 350021 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326135532 871590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell for C Programmers". < 1326135533 346352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should write a monad tutorial < 1326135534 498066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's super bad. < 1326135538 152339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fuck you!!! < 1326135538 494793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org NICK :cofila < 1326135541 129650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very very few people can even pronounce words starting with Ng < 1326135545 618383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I know, "Haskell for Prolog programmers" < 1326135555 587991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins to worry that http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8777216/how-do-you-identify-monadic-design-patterns/8777358#8777358 counts as a monad tutorial. < 1326135556 540403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well, it's a perfectly reasonable consonant for ending words on < 1326135559 484203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not for starting words on? < 1326135563 574009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should write "Haskell for Haskell programmers" < 1326135566 196937 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it should be empty. < 1326135571 677174 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ng is the most underused initial consonant in all languages I know < 1326135584 502401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell for esoteric programmers" < 1326135585 297997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's perfectly pronouncible < 1326135587 152719 :cofila!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And olsner knows at LEAST twenty languages. < 1326135590 679382 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THAT'S TOTALLY A MONAD TUTORIAL < 1326135594 814432 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUM OF THE EARTH < 1326135602 575678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, I pronounce it by treating the n as a semivowel < 1326135605 386807 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THOUGHT I COULD TRUST YOU < 1326135607 356217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is totally a real category of letters) < 1326135618 204487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, that's how I pronounce it at the end of a word too < 1326135641 794250 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ng is really a semivowel too < 1326135645 245330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know chat.stackoverflow.com has a Haskell channel? < 1326135666 273715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. I looked at the logs ("transcripts") and it's filled with that J Fritsch guy being terrible at Haskell. < 1326135671 601952 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make the nnnnnnnnng (ngngngngng?) as long as you like < 1326135715 192274 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. < 1326135719 873437 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I just start humming < 1326135721 143624 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135733 564400 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yeah, you can do that too < 1326135740 670589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ŋŋŋŋŋŋŋ. < 1326135743 91783 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe even the other kind! < 1326135747 146717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ŋevd. < 1326135752 110383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135753 856912 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :УНИЦОДЕ? < 1326135754 651717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes! < 1326135755 604223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :796) elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135777 345563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd have to spend a bunch of time explaining Haskell's flaws :-( < 1326135799 612739 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No need! Just ignore them! < 1326135803 146522 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is perfect, remember? < 1326135808 863413 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a thing is a flaw, that means it's not Haskell. < 1326135829 734001 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net NICK :one_minute_pleas < 1326135834 375226 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there is room in the world for a good free Haskell book. < 1326135845 125193 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The market demands it. < 1326135853 643360 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd make millions*! < 1326135853 800722 :one_minute_pleas!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net NICK :Ngevd < 1326135871 558277 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*short scale millions < 1326135882 896309 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, thousands. < 1326135892 826046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of pennies. < 1326135893 341940 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of meaningless Internet points. < 1326135894 455058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, the first thing to do is to figure out what animal O'Reilly will use for it. < 1326135908 386474 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are sloths taken? < 1326135919 108688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... doubt it. < 1326135928 435113 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then. < 1326135930 224061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Black Cat of Tynedale < 1326135930 381429 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's done. < 1326135939 258275 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oreilly.com/animals.html < 1326135947 447755 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ actual cryptid < 1326135948 839247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1326135957 638244 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neanderthal. < 1326135977 992337 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326135978 151697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird that sloths aren't, they're such mainstream animals. < 1326135980 300465 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MCSE in a Nutshell: The Windows 2000 Exams" -- Grand elephant < 1326135984 675958 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1326135988 255797 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fuck on. < 1326135988 573285 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *elephant*? < 1326135994 575447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: X-D < 1326136006 158038 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever chooses animals for O'Reilly books ought to be dot dot dot < 1326136009 91798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grandest elephant. < 1326136030 948005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ACCORDING to legend, the Black Cat of Tynedale lurks deep in the darkest woods of Northumberland." < 1326136035 476332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How is this real. < 1326136042 86031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But when the Chronicle went to hunt the folklore creature, we discovered there might be truth to the sightings after all. During an early morning scour of the Tynedale countryside we found wildlife which, from a distance, could be mistaken as a big cat." < 1326136066 978846 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1326136067 295397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1326136078 1426 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COïNCIDENCE? < 1326136082 392613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott elliott is thumbing around Northumberland < 1326136082 709547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is stored. < 1326136098 348183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexhampture. < 1326136114 236564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, from a sufficiently large distance, you can mistake anything for anything? < 1326136154 75285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also scotspeople, what's up with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkirk_Wheel thing, doesn't it look kinda awesome-silly? < 1326136154 271301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, consider an infinitely large, light-emitting piece of yellow card. < 1326136165 758348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have been on that, it is the best thing ever. < 1326136168 976685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After Hampture.) < 1326136185 979421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the Falkirk Wheel is awesome < 1326136191 392345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which totally makes up for it looking silly < 1326136271 565153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the Millenium Commision are responsible? that probably explains the awesomeness < 1326136275 455703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Commission < 1326136308 848842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Millennium < 1326136314 346851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, they used up all their mistakes on the Dome < 1326136314 503555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a function in Haskell for doing an in-order traversal of a Data.Tree.Tree < 1326136323 161716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just filled the rest of their work with awesome < 1326136327 333191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the Foldable stuff is prefix order it would seem < 1326136380 97909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1326136415 17537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <*> [4,5,6] < 1326136415 835328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3] < 1326136429 579430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] *> [4,5,6] < 1326136430 281170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6] < 1326136436 966533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <* [4,5,6] < 1326136437 761690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3] < 1326136443 800053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1326136444 116707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1326136476 527143 :saberman_!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326136478 605223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the internet is dying < 1326136512 83211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1326136513 671306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bold statement to make < 1326136517 598611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1326136525 222100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gets the inheritance? < 1326136535 849226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ARPAnet < 1326136537 2901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :al gore < 1326136571 153443 :saberman_!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326136615 373900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Dynamic Earth is a Millennium Commission thing? < 1326136621 350120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi in-order traversal of DAta.Tree hlep < 1326136622 877128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpel < 1326136634 238359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using liberries < 1326136641 299494 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What? < 1326136644 342301 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326136645 982995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries < 1326136646 142482 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1326136648 464562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the funktions < 1326136656 364944 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been to this place for a long time, wow < 1326136659 905606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this ex-professor at our university who was Finland-famous (that's like the real thing except in Finland) for his in-the-major-newspaper comments on how the Internet is going to collapse real soon. I think last estimate was that it'll happen in 2006. < 1326136664 433451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were here like two months ago. < 1326136674 795936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Dude, it's just < 1326136676 224398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Node < 1326136677 176643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Forest a -> Tree a < 1326136681 387804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i Forest < 1326136684 126794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Forest < 1326136684 443753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1326136686 747456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. < 1326136690 318296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forest a = [Tree a]. < 1326136690 951343 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Tree < 1326136691 269045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. stty: unknown mode: doofus < 1326136693 15450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is not an in-order traversal of a tree using the given library functions. < 1326136700 502768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I know how to write an in-order traversal recursively < 1326136702 567697 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott in internet time that's a long time < 1326136711 816367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you must submit to my constraint system. < 1326136721 180142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was cpressey last here? < 1326136728 102765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Many months. < 1326136730 6590 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :preflex: xseen cpressey < 1326136732 229699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PyCon, I think. < 1326136734 178889 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1326136739 493159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many moons" is I think what you say? < 1326136740 797170 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless channel. < 1326136769 269901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05. < 1326136770 856956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the answer. < 1326136782 555848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before my time... < 1326136790 33943 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came here 2011-08? < 1326136810 445281 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never been here. < 1326136892 24666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take it you've given up as there's no easy solution < 1326136927 862885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least elliott hasn't had to write an interaction net deque < 1326137191 792499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I gave up because I'm not here to write your code for you < 1326137195 952614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However < 1326137198 333568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Node 42 [] < 1326137199 287337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Node {rootLabel = 42, subForest = []} < 1326137203 509522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Use the library functions rootLabel and subForest. < 1326137247 173782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simon Jenkins has a knighthood?? < 1326137250 801612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha < 1326137262 5008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what, services to shooting his mouth off? < 1326137269 623474 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's that? < 1326137281 939295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 257256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe listToMaybe :: [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 414932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 571938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude head :: [a] -> a < 1326137297 555223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326137304 798866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find (const True) [1,2,3,4] < 1326137305 672785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 1 < 1326137383 559256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010's Computer Music Journal is lame < 1326137386 97843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, one of the Guardian's main columnists, notable among other things for being stupidly anti-science. < 1326137394 170104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is just people coming up with timbre-spaces < 1326137439 886830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one publication about actual audio synthesis. < 1326137449 51912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/06/maths.alevels < 1326137463 865358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very wide-topic journal. < 1326137513 993639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find timbre-spaces very interesting. < 1326137546 794576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/24/rees-makes-religion-out-of-science < 1326137582 256954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too bad if science wrecked the case for nuclear power by its hypersafe radiation limits, or failed properly to defend GM foods." < 1326137607 910630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GOD why can't you people effortlessly dispel people's irrationality?" < 1326137742 66159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's a good year to read? there's a lot of them to search through. :P < 1326137909 375713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have zero clue. There's a lot of interesting stuff also in the IEEE journals that have "audio" in the name, but those are even worse if you have a single topic in mind. Browsing them non-physically may be best for efficiency. < 1326137938 658967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1326138011 167929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also some that have "audio" in the name also have "speech" in there, and just physically picking an issue up subjects you to elliott's industrial-strength scorn ray.) < 1326138192 592784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326138216 660672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORN < 1326138224 309597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's voice-activated. < 1326138249 387622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it use SPEECH RECOGNITION to pick up the activation commands? < 1326138271 323076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely! That's why this is the first time it's activated. < 1326138282 379391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hit the incredibly unrealistic and precise conditions required for speech recognition to be feasible. < 1326138363 145263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well scorned. < 1326138397 981991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably a subconscious adjustment you have made to your manner of speech in an attempt to convince yourself that speech recognition is good. < 1326138408 462303 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326138416 750958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we really need more powerful, and more open to the masses, brainwave readers < 1326138421 867457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technology is getting there, luckily < 1326138432 524269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. Then fizzie will be even more obsolete. < 1326138482 333024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: incidentally, you have a huge Haskell bias in your SO answers < 1326138492 693738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's because I only look at the haskell tag. < 1326138502 834773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answered one (1) non-Haskell question, though. < 1326138506 281300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326138507 234049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that purity one wasn't really Haskell-related. < 1326138516 603904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if you were just looking for haskell tags < 1326138528 790074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone should ask INTERCAL questions on there < 1326138534 18847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I would look at other tags, but the popular ones are terrible: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c < 1326138535 767048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then point me to them so I can answer them < 1326138557 348206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would ask one, but I think that would be rep laundering. < 1326138563 975698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1326138573 494549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was a joke.) < 1326138580 404353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it looks just like comp.lang.c would look if the regulars didn't try so hard to scare people away < 1326138582 325764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The real reason is I have no INTERCAL questions to ask.) < 1326138589 968502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they asked that sort of question < 1326138709 798858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, those C questions are bad < 1326138714 932119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they really are < 1326138730 780079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused at the person who was worried that unsigned integers would overflow into the next bit of memory when they overflowed < 1326138735 125706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c%23 is possibly worse < 1326138739 453364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the most popular tag on the site < 1326138741 921003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was asking for reassurance, but fearing the worse < 1326138745 338087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: c#, I take it? < 1326138751 845983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326138797 480986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been searching for a Linux version of the Conio Header file, but haven't found any... I'm using gcc and the Text-Editor "Geany" to compile my C-Code. < 1326138808 516814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have forgiven em if e didn't mention the editor he was using < 1326138828 296384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that's the only thing he quoted < 1326138832 986234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, he's using the editor '"Geany"' < 1326138837 127425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the editor 'Geany' < 1326138850 321125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e, w/e < 1326138851 987042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answers are actually useful, mostly referencing Linux reimpls of the library functions prototyped in conio.h < 1326138859 373290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freenode ##c is quite bad at times. < 1326138863 557413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At times? < 1326138876 696586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's just quiet. < 1326138887 901541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes PoppaVic isn't there, I guess. < 1326138902 392823 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is very rare. < 1326138917 324003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, top INTERCAL result: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2862785/is-there-an-intercal-mode-for-gnu-emacs < 1326138928 661848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the people answering "no" without checking < 1326138943 348992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people, plural? < 1326138960 6455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other intercal results seem to be people mentioning it in passing < 1326138961 634682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one and a half < 1326139009 793452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently I accidentally "emacs blah.pdf"d instead of "evince blah.pdf"ing, and it took me at least ten seconds to notice, since Emacs went and rendered that PDF. < 1326139018 173534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326139032 525099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that would be even better if you used emacs in a terminal < 1326139041 64499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal emacs doesn't render PDFs, though < 1326139044 479314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : " I'm amused at the person who was worried that unsigned integers would overflow into the next bit of memory when they overflowed" if you think about numbers in text format like "1234" = 4 chars long, and, on this basis you suppose a max unsigned int "4294967296" is 10 chars long.. then it would be possible to concieve it < 1326139064 628209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: nah, they just thought that C would ignore types when incrementing numbers < 1326139084 155047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were worried that integer overflow worked like every other type of overflow, just going into the next bit of memory < 1326139087 413009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a plausible misconception < 1326139106 824724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326139137 689181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work like that :) < 1326139157 876193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's useful when you have an all-ones bitmap, want to clear it with a simple operation, and have some writable memory after. Just "++" it and the carry will keep going. < 1326139163 488820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NULL -= 1; /* now my memory is full of ones rather than zeroes */ < 1326139177 884244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1326139189 169070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's useful. < 1326139196 952291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyone who points out that NULL is not necessarily 0 is missing the point) < 1326139204 58927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It'll even run in one cycle. < 1326139219 982000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly one very long cycle. < 1326139221 610447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's just an increment. < 1326139259 206750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326139263 535385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] never mind < 1326139268 819137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible to make a memory that can manage arbitrary length increment in O(log n) time, O(n log n) silicon, where n is the number of bits in memory < 1326139320 75203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of overflow in a literal sense of like icecube trays being filled with water < 1326139365 350544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each icecube cell's volume of water being a byte of some kind < 1326139371 197467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you know: dwarffortress is in Arch Linux's repositories? < 1326139373 465171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, Debian! < 1326139377 487069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't < 1326139391 982144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of thing that Debian wouldn't want in their main repos, though < 1326139395 238035 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. the increment operator on an icecube tray would be a drop of water < 1326139414 221179 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment too many times and the water leaks into neighbouring cells < 1326139422 814670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it even installs a menu entry < 1326139451 211536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that's easy < 1326139456 883824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Jettyplay package installs a menu entry < 1326139473 905323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, DF doesn't come with a menu entry file < 1326139483 20211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like new way of arranging esolang list of ideas? < 1326139494 255950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, isn't this the second kernel update in two days < 1326139498 202377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even added three new entries as well, as making new sections < 1326139505 367903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nor does jettyplay, I wrote one for the package < 1326139526 917542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I didn't see it because of all the spam < 1326139560 825386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: atrapado spam, you mean? < 1326139561 577240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll yell at em on eir talk page < 1326139578 501165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it's an improvement < 1326139594 773923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, regular spambot spam < 1326139602 678484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I'm clearing it, I don't open other pages to avoid deleting them by mistake < 1326139658 329836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326139675 817064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've got pretty close to that beforen ow) < 1326139680 217132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1326139912 9912 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326139943 367426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to try to implement or write additional comment/question about any of these esolang ideas? < 1326140078 956338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the year categories look nicer now < 1326140088 745045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yearcat2 was getting excessively wide) < 1326140124 338684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Before_1993 hmm... Forth shouldn't be in this category < 1326140124 495065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably not in the near future, at least < 1326140143 245915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's more recent than or equally recent as 1993, or because it isn't an esolang? < 1326140143 403262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor should PROLAN/M, arguably < 1326140147 162711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: latter < 1326140155 217707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth dates back to the 70s < 1326140170 807661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not an esolang with the same name, right? always worth checking that < 1326140177 447732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the article doesn't describe one < 1326140179 830052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to decategorise nonesolangs from esolang categories, anyway < 1326140215 785319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that for one of them, then got bored :) < 1326140317 795712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here's a story of competence. The ISP installing the VDSL2 link was supposed to terminate the old ADSL contract (with another ISP); we faxed them a permission paper for that. < 1326140321 497987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told me explicitly the VDSL2 order would not proceed until they had gotten that paper; also in the paper I told them the installation date. Well, they went ahead and installed it on the requested day and everything seemed to be fine. < 1326140325 807213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a bit over week ago I got a bill for January from the old ISP. So I sent the new one a question, something like "is this just because the old contract had a grace period for termination, or did something go wrong?" < 1326140330 414473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their answer was that "we never got the permission form from you and therefore didn't terminate the old contract". But apparently didn't think of telling me about it. < 1326140333 340090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I called the old ISP and asked; they said their records show the termination notice from the new ISP, and the permission form that they "never got" was attached; and that the January bill was due to one-month termination grace period thing. < 1326140337 260985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the take-home message from all this is: never trust the words of my current ISP. < 1326140385 896496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326140418 381935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the new ISP lie about that, anyway? < 1326140427 686971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a thing counterproductive to lie about < 1326140430 875359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, * < 1326140431 233027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Incompetence, I suppose. < 1326140467 37320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malice, probably not, since it doesn't really benefit them. < 1326140475 114094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where does that umm go? < 1326140488 958065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could be just nastiness for its own sake, though. < 1326140495 159567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't < 1326140501 807505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the * by itself is the correction < 1326140504 610734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1326140507 282107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it correcting? < 1326140516 737669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided that as it's typically obvious enough what the correction is, there's no need to put it after the * < 1326140519 238148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and word order < 1326140525 460776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326140527 537203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it failed utterly < 1326140531 241753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I didn't notice the original mistake < 1326140560 690543 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131EC9.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912] < 1326140669 239922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound devices available: < 1326140669 397767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Output < 1326140669 554129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picking No Output. If your desired device was missing, make sure you have the appropriate 32-bit libraries installed. If you wanted a different device, configure ~/.openalrc appropriately. < 1326140669 874187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph < 1326140678 49254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guesstimating their overworked customer service drone just went "oh, uh, I don't know whether we sent the termination notice, can't be arsed to check, I'd probably have to call other people and whatever, I'll just blame the customer for not delivering the necessary forms and ask him to take care of it, that's easier". < 1326140753 23927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you change ISP? < 1326140783 132362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, after all, the same customer service people who said it's impossible to change the realname field of my Unix account from "null Kallasjoki", and that I should just live with it since it's not externally visible. < 1326140792 146104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326140796 674191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be proud to be null Kallasjoki. < 1326140800 799080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My first name is not "null", in case anyone was wondering.) < 1326140809 910787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it's fizzie. < 1326140844 453015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is Kallasjoki your name either? < 1326140849 399918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The new one is faster and significantly cheaper, since they went and dug some fibre to the basement of this building. < 1326140856 468917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The surname is correct. < 1326140928 965834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to put a monetary price on the frustration; but on the other hand they seem to be a good supply for IRC anecdotes. < 1326140944 302567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's hope they keep screwing up. (Or maybe not.) < 1326140962 361559 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they screw up in harmless ways, it's just fun < 1326141009 638787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a web forum for users. Some of the stories are... colorful. (In Finnish only, sadly.) < 1326141249 632855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantics of Finnish depend on color? < 1326141308 34180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326141318 99061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. (3) colorful, colourful -- (striking in variety and interest; "a colorful period of history"; "a colorful character"; "colorful language") < 1326141370 120688 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I'm now talking on ##latin < 1326141391 29932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Excuse me you cannot avoid my questions. < 1326141814 665227 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326141815 416144 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326141815 575085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326141959 48610 :cofila!foobar@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1326141995 545551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm looking for statistical analysis of music/audio, and combinatorial logic for musical arrangement. so any topics related to that. < 1326142076 262537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142142 274775 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-110.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142142 640716 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-110.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326142142 797112 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142237 36399 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"music/audio" < 1326142238 28562 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326142260 564904 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we don't currently have anywhere near the technology to take audio and extract the music, those are wholly different questions. < 1326142285 933822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :music is all in your head, man < 1326142359 850169 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were saying that was a MIME type < 1326142362 510142 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Need more 'a's, maaaaaaaaaan. < 1326142370 129859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just because we can't do it doesn't mean there are not articles about it. < 1326142376 245102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326142376 564317 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh yeah what format is it in" "music/audio" "ok what plays that" "music and audio players" < 1326142469 532410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, there are sort-of working things for subproblems, like extracting tempo curves automagically from audio. < 1326142549 24390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the division was intentional < 1326142555 309119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm looking for information on either. < 1326142558 392702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or separating polyphonic music to instruments up to some degree, or whatever. < 1326142577 906279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also getting near to the technology to do such a thing requires writing papers about it. :p < 1326142595 9836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE AS SHE IS PLAYED < 1326142596 641612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using statistics to figure out parameters of the "music" is something we can kind of do to an extent. < 1326142606 971518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know how. :P < 1326142690 753366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should start simple. you can't go analyzing the most complex works ever written. < 1326142698 601370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with something like... Justin Bieber. or Rebecca Black. < 1326142700 331635 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I few terms ago a student here implemented beat detection for waveform audio. < 1326142714 451729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We concluded that it works for music terrible enough that beat detection would work. < 1326142724 422526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have the tech to extract music from audio? thats amazing :o < 1326142746 584449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: we had to pipe it to our hears in order to extract it. < 1326142748 911345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1326142759 12786 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Given a waveform sample of any real instrument, no matter how perfectly recorded, we can barely tell you what note it is. < 1326142760 773789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: *ears < 1326142762 873590 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subvocalization is fun anyway < 1326142773 273373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: inverse pun? < 1326142776 416421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am currently subvocalizing foo fighters < 1326142785 984351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverted typo pun. < 1326142811 295676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you can apply beat detection to most foo fighters songs. < 1326142825 875633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wicked burn) < 1326142828 606332 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142830 164398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let it go to waste. i love it but i hate the taste < 1326142845 154723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. quoting foo fighters lyrics is banned. < 1326142868 564764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/ go here instead < 1326142883 534212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news is i have never sampled a justin bieber song with my ears < 1326142889 791919 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't subvocalize it < 1326142895 590945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel this slight urge to ban quintopia for privmsg'ing me and then immediately going away. but it may just be the hunger... -> < 1326142933 395467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've understood, "it" in general works not really that badly, but that's just a vague impression. < 1326142935 948128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so really just any kind of book on statistics would be good too I guess. but I'm mostly concerned with audio (oh and the anti-latency time sync prediction stuff I mentioned previously) < 1326142950 456257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: thats a good sign for instruments < 1326142975 496523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: real musicians don't play notes. < 1326142978 607296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :notes are just symbols, man. < 1326142983 663457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326142984 615091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1326142985 654824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326143002 677051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in electronic music... < 1326143009 377706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually does become somewhat irrelevant. < 1326143035 159057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to sound tonal. you know, if that's your thing. < 1326143038 35769 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326143082 933083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyhoo, sometimes a good way to find stuff is to go to Google Scholar and add "review" to your search terms, and hope you find something new enough. Like for tempo tracking, "A review of automatic rhythm description systems", F. Gouyon, Computer Music Journal, 2005, sounds relevant. (Not going to dig deeper with this phone.) < 1326143100 135262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :review review < 1326143123 100207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so today in intro to advanced math we learned about: BASIC SET THEORY < 1326143141 335743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah < 1326143151 54045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today we learnt about me not handing in homework... < 1326143152 521396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326143154 780099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he kind of hinted at how natural numbers can be constructed with the null set and powerset operator but he didn't really explain it he just used the example as a way to teach what powerset and subset means. < 1326143167 260134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hinted I mean he didn't say anything about it, but that's what he was doing. < 1326143204 837487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also Bishop's "Machine Learning and Pattern Recognition" is a nice textbook about things in general (IIRC); it probably won't mention audio signals or music many times, if at all, though. < 1326143213 890361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's fine < 1326143219 512374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :general knowlege will be helpful, of course. < 1326143249 947079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use it as a coursebook on some courses. Of course there are many similar books. < 1326143271 131278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find some more synthesis books. "Computer Music: Synthesis, Composition, and Performance" was a good intro but it doesn't go into more advanced topics. < 1326143360 697171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell quintopia i am going to ignore you for pretending you were about to start an interesting conversation and then immediately going away. < 1326143361 120344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326143403 523280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be going to library so often it's going to be awesome. < 1326143408 632033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sometimes i can't tell whether your @tells are serious or not < 1326143410 382588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+the < 1326143417 33429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was not serious < 1326143419 244235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that helps. < 1326143473 286047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it was. < 1326143494 372467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't worry, even i can't tell sometimes. < 1326143526 974645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what kind of blows my mind. < 1326143549 646835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diet Mountain Dew (sry mtn dew) has concentrated orange juice as the second ingredient listed < 1326143554 522828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently has no Vitamin C < 1326143605 26233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brominated vegetable oil" lol wuht < 1326143626 317758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, sir, are about to enter the BROminator. :) < 1326143666 628573 :saberman_800!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326143683 860211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's like hydrogenated vegetable oil, but with bromine instead < 1326143687 188549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326143696 219607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of hydrogen < 1326143729 256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I figured, but I'm still startled that it's in this drink, even if in very small quantities (less of it than the actual caffeine) < 1326143757 163733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: halogen atoms bound to hydrocarbons tend to be incredibly safe for humans < 1326143768 990153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFCs are not poisonous in any way, that's why they became so popular < 1326143773 522153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather worse for the environment, though < 1326143791 310199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326143804 58915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mainly just not expecting the "vegetable oil" part and was less focused on the "bromine" part. < 1326143858 292487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a list of every pharmecutial brand name ever invented? < 1326143861 151773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to add that to word. < 1326143868 20981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Wikipedia does. < 1326143876 989895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the US Trademark Office probably does, more seriously < 1326143884 662566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, US Patents & Trademarks Office < 1326143919 1263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah oaky. I'll just shoot them an email. < 1326143934 99833 :saberman_800!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326143972 412141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: that was not serious < 1326143972 609891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hope that helps. < 1326143972 767017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...it was. < 1326143975 838753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: see what i mean < 1326144011 622658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1326144019 142707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was also not serious. < 1326144045 701122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big help < 1326144051 863829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm their trademark search doesn't appear to have a category search < 1326144060 587388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most helpful 2012 < 1326144065 908149 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a real winner" < 1326144068 168436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ps don't ignore quintopia for having things to do other than irc < 1326144068 384592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best monqy 2012 < 1326144070 828785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to i guess < 1326144091 985254 :saberman_1000!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326144098 515895 :saberman_1000!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326144099 194912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog helpful most 2012 < 1326144114 126655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-09.txt:21:21:39: `searchlog helpful most 2012 < 1326144119 205204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1326144119 858280 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true searchlog quality < 1326144125 569324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you'll be even less likely to find it < 1326144136 471425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between log and searchlog? < 1326144147 796070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :searchlog is the best. < 1326144153 866328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1326144157 328137 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ main \ paste \ quotes \ searchlog.hi \ searchlog.hs \ searchlog.o \ share \ wisdom < 1326144165 85613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste searchlog.hs < 1326144168 982537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14186 < 1326144191 946392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's still the bad one. < 1326144201 903998 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1326144204 246058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1326144205 434085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326144210 93285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why do we have an implementation of grep in Haskell? < 1326144210 275161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad bad < 1326144218 882098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i < 1326144223 130316 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't? < 1326144223 676906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326144225 114940 :saberman_300!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326144231 141021 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any software is better if it's written in haskell < 1326144242 165421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the highest goal of humanity is to rewrite all existing software in haskell < 1326144252 770221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implemenation of grep in haskell: call out to another grep wrapper < 1326144255 353154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real good" < 1326144285 828897 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's true, I do love handing file descriptors through UNIX sockets < 1326144296 241998 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then I feel like working on package management again. It really doesn't take long before I stop feeling like that. < 1326144296 766871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually think the ^.*....*$ is needed < 1326144299 727742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just put it there to be safe. < 1326144308 141202 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *wanna* do topological sort! < 1326144313 856067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c any software is better if it's written in haskell < 1326144314 12849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the highest goal of humanity is to rewrite all existing software in haskell < 1326144318 44492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misspelled "@"!!!! < 1326144323 182242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or constraint solving! < 1326144324 17341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: meh, tsort's a really important algo < 1326144337 199795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: have you read about how Oz does constraint solving. < 1326144339 510251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Doesn't make me want to do it any more. :P < 1326144350 328492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's come up naturally at least twice, which beats any other not-known-everywhere situation but priority queues < 1326144357 908719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the biased ais523 way of looking at things) < 1326144362 439066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and parsers, but that doesn't count < 1326144371 540941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from the future and "@" and "haskell" look exactly the same it's very confusing < 1326144374 422518 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1326144398 690591 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with haskell you're one step closer to incorporating the software into mathematical proofs :D < 1326144405 198550 :saberman_300!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326144409 988820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326144410 349375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326144411 528642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not < 1326144417 189812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: if that's a thing you want to do you might want to look at it. I don't know if it's "state-of-the-art" or whatever but it's a constraint programming language so I assume it's pretty good. < 1326144421 337164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1326144435 456226 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Haskell is very informal. < 1326144444 607227 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even 1 step closer? < 1326144451 529103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you're writing I guess. < 1326144453 447787 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a step sideways at least < 1326144461 507038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326144462 620507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326144469 962666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well coq can extract to haskell < 1326144472 383739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1326144481 36973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of the opposite ;P < 1326144486 611131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your web server written in Haskell is not going to be more mathematically sound than Apache. < 1326144488 976403 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next genius will incorporate I/O into mathematics directly < 1326144494 335214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're one step backwards from incorporating mathematical proofs into software < 1326144498 209271 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true geniouse < 1326144508 146967 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it depends what you mean by "mathematically sound" < 1326144508 303427 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is about as formally specified as C. Fairly well for a programming language, but not very in an absolute sense. < 1326144536 790801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a constructive proof about web servers or something. < 1326144543 151494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. < 1326144552 498130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was also partially that he had obviously not read my answer to him yesterday. < 1326144552 816443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8648354/do-monads-do-anything-other-than-increase-readability-and-productivity < 1326144560 415367 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1326144562 995909 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not gonna click that < 1326144565 695049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: :) < 1326144567 701677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks it. < 1326144573 347904 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :web servers theory "theory of the future" < 1326144574 304400 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are useless because C is turing-complete < 1326144580 192666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no it's not < 1326144588 431289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is not that great either. < 1326144589 124643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if evolution is true then why are there still monkeys, HMMMMM?!?!?!? < 1326144590 157859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mostly it was low blood sugar, though. < 1326144623 872640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: blood sugar is the best kind of sugar < 1326144627 747668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may return to near human behavior in a minute or so < 1326144627 941839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/Ceae < 1326144632 429277 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-09 21:30:31 URL:http://sprunge.us/Ceae [510] -> "Ceae" [1] < 1326144641 177480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: qed < 1326144677 852564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is good if you want to do imperative programming < 1326144694 244276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv Ceae searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 --fllvm -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326144698 932774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*low-level imperative programming < 1326144703 260383 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc: unrecognised flags: --fllvm \ Usage: For basic information, try the `--help' option. < 1326144713 585749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326144717 285173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326144723 384222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv Ceae searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -fllvm -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog #real programmers use LLVM < 1326144740 765135 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `Ceae': No such file or directory \ Linking bin/searchlog ... < 1326144757 73889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326144761 832758 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already moved it < 1326144763 468677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past < 1326144765 175738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1326144768 615165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes paste me. < 1326144790 786151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes forget that I exist in a mutable world. < 1326144799 403947 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think C is the best imperative language which doesn't rely on an interpreter < 1326144801 537248 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutation is hard times < 1326144810 858869 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what does best mean < 1326144822 676416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what does "doesn't rely on an interpreter" mean. < 1326144825 81214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no language relies on an interpreter < 1326144825 557483 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does "rely on an interpreter" mean < 1326144829 3963 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1326144829 717697 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means, in practice, c# and java don't get implemented without interpreters < 1326144836 845471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326144838 274585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, C#, Java: the only imperative languages < 1326144846 315121 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly :D < 1326144847 500243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, C# and Java are OOP < 1326144850 346855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same thing as imperative < 1326144873 207084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they're not "interpreted" in the sense that "interpreted" usually means. < 1326144876 737325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they're compiled to bytecode and run on virtual machines "totally rely on interpreters" < 1326144879 656867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1326144881 968063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: JITs, even < 1326144885 236198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :their common implementations aren't < 1326144885 781102 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes that too < 1326144916 597198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines what java would be like if interpreted < 1326144919 470323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you linux < 1326144921 180109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. bad. < 1326144924 995189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bad < 1326144939 995035 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ok < 1326144949 728829 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: is that supposed to make it the best < 1326144953 61025 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1326144959 534724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326144964 160204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: yes, it's true. as soon as the first implementation of C was created, it sprang linux into existence. < 1326144973 162220 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it was the best < 1326144976 457340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you unix < 1326144980 718689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines what perl would be like if just in time compiled. < 1326144981 928223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. good. < 1326144998 401398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly C also brought me windows < 1326145049 118735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but yes C# and Java are not really interpreted. did you know that? < 1326145062 170173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: windows is mostly C++ < 1326145086 647172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see the mistake i made < 1326145096 928736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you C++ < 1326145100 25176 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it's the worst < 1326145117 931345 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was probably trolling < 1326145125 134307 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326145125 810467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326145139 25908 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, C is good if you want to do imperative programming with buffer overflows < 1326145147 130170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell quintopia my insanity appears to be diminishing; also blue cheese is good < 1326145147 486379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326145161 676402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326145175 342710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this true of almost all language constructs? You can write every program using the four simple instructions of a Universal Register Machine, but you wouldn't want to. – arx < 1326145180 206043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq would have been a way better example. < 1326145189 359473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lack the education to make serious mistakes in statements about languages < 1326145197 214449 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure would love to program in this "Haskell" language with the proofs and the automatic memoization and parallelization < 1326145197 376352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326145200 68736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it doesn't exist < 1326145212 954034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only make trivial mistakes < 1326145213 465620 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be thinking of: Hacksell < 1326145220 931370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if reddit believes in something long enough, then it comes true < 1326145222 714422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like christmas < 1326145245 444458 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what's up in curmudgeon land < 1326145259 23026 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is great because it lets me prove that Integers exist, in an inconsistent logic < 1326145260 452166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember kmc i sure would love to program in this "Haskell" language with the proofs and the automatic memoization and parallelization < 1326145260 769795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1326145263 594156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is the automatic memoization thing at least partially true? < 1326145268 37860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1326145280 438237 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, laziness is *kind* of like memoization < 1326145282 542075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only barely < 1326145283 982093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326145288 113208 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not memoization of function (argument, result) pairs < 1326145302 918504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharing is kind of like memoisation, rather < 1326145303 313234 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means if you write «let x = big_complicated in (x + x)», it doesn't compute big_complicated twice < 1326145318 295184 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and technically / pedantically, that's not part of Haskell, it's an implementation detail shared by pretty much any Haskell implementation < 1326145321 843181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they're related more than "kind of" with all the memocombinators stuff and everything < 1326145327 84833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was under the impression that lazy evaluation = non-strict evaluation + sharing < 1326145327 954002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not automatic :P < 1326145338 873707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lazy evaluation has both of those properties < 1326145342 133636 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the spec does not mandate lazy evaluation or sharing < 1326145354 224253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I guess you were just being more specific then... < 1326145363 375833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an interesting bit of trivia that memoization is easier in a lazy pure language than a strict pure language < 1326145375 121499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change CP violation, the original Trilogy: The Eodermdrome Strikes Back | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326145391 323896 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :memoizing a function requires mutating a cache data structure < 1326145397 338910 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness gives you implicit mutation of just the sort you need < 1326145410 998099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll start kallisti again < 1326145423 15270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, only you have the power to make arguments out of nothing. < 1326145455 22338 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326145501 916007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I used where exclusively < 1326145505 879004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i tried to figure out why BART is broad-gauge < 1326145508 460377 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think nobody knows < 1326145511 485894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as I write more Haskell I find myself liking let in more situations. < 1326145517 819038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they were drunk when they designed it < 1326145520 884123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, me too < 1326145529 849030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't. < 1326145532 205543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is good too though. they're both good. < 1326145535 806936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one mistake i made is confusing the terms language and implementation.. < 1326145554 265798 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like things to flow logically from top to bottom (even if that's not the true order of evaluation) < 1326145564 791589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "let" with the "top-level" expression at the end, is more natural than "where" < 1326145565 137255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: this is also why I think I actually prefer >>> to . < 1326145567 545183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another mistake i made is only considering PC computers < 1326145580 218044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yeah, unfortuantely (>>>) is less common and uglier < 1326145593 528237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh it's not uglier < 1326145596 629515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even shows you the direction < 1326145599 886842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just more typing < 1326145600 62841 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes "where" is good because the "top-level" expression can be understood by itself, and the helpers are self-contained details < 1326145611 8051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326145611 222953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think "flow logically" is meaningful like that. < 1326145620 240500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not the order of evaluation, what /do/ you go by? < 1326145628 870 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: federal law influenced by earthquakes down south? < 1326145628 809513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer using "let" when I just need to extract some values within a particular case or something. < 1326145632 37571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doens't need to go in where. < 1326145635 106369 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even regulation < 1326145646 297134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, interesting < 1326145653 981485 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the transbay tube is not earthquake-safe < 1326145677 760445 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: another possibility: attempt to disable use of existing trains. someone got smeared by a train factory. < 1326145680 574872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oi, can you get anything interesting from regarding lines between points in R^n as morphisms in a category, or is this not something you'd know in any case? < 1326145691 501167 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, yeah, it's great for vendor lock-in for sure < 1326145701 523952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't buy trains from the same suppliers as the other subways in the country < 1326145701 929727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so... sharing is literally just a mechanism of let binding (and equivalent sugars) < 1326145703 694835 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you can always change a vendor < 1326145706 189004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can buy trains from india, lol < 1326145706 345122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326145710 413846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except not, because BUY AMERICAN!!!) < 1326145713 130277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was a question. oops) < 1326145739 565767 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think it's probably that there was a fleet of trains already, but the people building the bart wanted to earn extra, so they made sure the trains had to be new too. < 1326145745 409348 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probable < 1326145750 608560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326145752 112018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, let me clarify. I know what the concept of sharing is, but I'm asking specifically where it occurs in Haskell. < 1326145752 911718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good theory < 1326145764 632100 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, let bindings, where bindings, module top-level bindings < 1326145774 480931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..."variables"> :P < 1326145776 491085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1326145778 321928 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit is a reliable motive < 1326145783 76591 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sharing is caring < 1326145784 251538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not counting function arguments I guess. < 1326145789 304078 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326145795 450076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or case-bound variables < 1326145809 307870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are more passing through existing sharing < 1326145818 440360 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to really answer your question I think you need a very detailed operational semantics < 1326145827 807597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is would be a good thing to know about. < 1326145827 965089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you ask, where does thunk allocation occur, and where does forcing occur < 1326145837 441338 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326145840 974871 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "Implementing lazy languages on stock hardware: the spineless tagless G-machine"? < 1326145841 291343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome centrinia < 1326145845 403217 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326145848 371327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: noep < 1326145857 183981 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you automate that? < 1326145872 934563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that Haskell doesn't maintain a single call stack, but instead has a stack for each level of pattern matching? or something to that extent. < 1326145875 188590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, they have a very simple desugared Haskell-like language where these questions are relatively clear < 1326145883 286890 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do you mean GHC? < 1326145888 131967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes. < 1326145893 404515 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's a true statement about GHC, but I don't think it's a sensical statement about Haskell < 1326145901 614889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has a stack *of* pattern-matchings < 1326145910 22452 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elements of the stack are "case continuations" < 1326145917 942735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so just one. but it's not really a "call stack" either. < 1326145929 100010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look like "case (hole) of Foo x -> ...; Bar y -> ..." < 1326145937 525956 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: any idea how much those techno goggles would cost to make? i was thinking of making a pair here < 1326145947 693567 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning "once you've finished evaluating whatever you're currently evaluating, branch on these cases < 1326145956 363429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except some of the elements are "update frames" < 1326145969 18776 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mean like "before you continue, plz overwrite this thunk with the answer you just computed" < 1326145974 731463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326146011 849057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: No. < 1326146030 65703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: your definition of case continuations seems backwards from what I was envisioning. < 1326146051 789749 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1326146074 16191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it seems that each continuation is moving further down a data structure? I was thinking it was a way to "go back up".... if that makes sense. < 1326146074 629914 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expression currently being evaluated is implicit in the program counter < 1326146086 167157 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you have a BOM for those? < 1326146086 643510 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing you need to remember is, what do you do after evaluation completes < 1326146089 504203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, no < 1326146096 153025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:12: if you teach someone C and tell them it's how the computer "really works" then they will probably become an insufferable douchebag < 1326146096 309484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that apply to every language? < 1326146099 844863 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know nothing about how much they could cost? < 1326146101 750616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it wouldn't contain more information than the pair of points itself, since two points always have exactly one line between them. < 1326146108 211004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but people usually don't tell that lie about other languages < 1326146112 375654 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, ballpark of $30 < 1326146114 306694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about assembly? < 1326146119 111289 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends what parts you have, and what you're making exactly < 1326146121 612395 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just spent more on pizza < 1326146123 40945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Indeed. < 1326146127 160808 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine then < 1326146134 178584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: As in, < 1326146137 988423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Indeed the same applies to that. < 1326146153 60994 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, browse these and maybe comment or contact the guy http://wealoneonearth.blogspot.com/search/label/goggles < 1326146165 691769 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has some detailed build instructions < 1326146173 219119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh right lazy evaluation kind of happens in reverse when compared to strict evaluation. < 1326146176 222983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1326146176 679698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, but that doesn't preclude something interesting coming from it. < 1326146180 584107 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thx4u < 1326146195 772647 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, maybe? < 1326146221 688015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. < 1326146229 278606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand the case continuation bit though. < 1326146318 963696 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way "evaluate" means "evaluate to whnf") < 1326146324 620414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1326146341 181590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a deep pattern in Haskell, it will translate to many nested 'case's in STG-language < 1326146344 19964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also another question: isn't beta-reduction and inlining the same thing in Haskell? < 1326146345 362141 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each once forces to whnf < 1326146351 296282 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is it? < 1326146368 568598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying that inlining is a special case of compile-time partial evaluation? < 1326146375 900646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like when you inline a function you would also be beta-reducing it. < 1326146398 172038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beta-reducing its application < 1326146398 830310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1326146399 307853 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's best to treat those as separate < 1326146401 728305 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really know < 1326146428 566164 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that «(\x -> x + 2) 2» is already "inline" but you might want an optimization which reduces it to 4 < 1326146428 722574 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326146428 722744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask because Wikipedia's article on GHC mentions that it does inlining, and then also mentions that it performs beta-reduction. < 1326146432 572267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's referring to different intermediate representations. < 1326146438 917911 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could read "secrets of the GHC inliner" < 1326146482 508044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :193 amazing sex tips to satisfy your GHC inliner < 1326146524 274591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw spineless tagless G-machine is the best name for a thing ever. < 1326146559 370938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people would consider something inlining if it skipped the beta-reduction. < 1326146560 522558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it means it's isomorphic to the obvious category of pairs of points. which i think is sort of a trivial partial preorder category. < 1326146570 120254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would just increase the size of code and not save the cost of a call. < 1326146578 640336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess the jump could be smaller? < 1326146596 481914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equivalently, every object is a zero object. < 1326146607 414966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you would still get the benefits of some rewrite rules if you inlined without beta-reduction < 1326146657 204908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... you would get more if you beta-reduced < 1326146683 113709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'M GOING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THIS WHEN I READ C4TWM I'M SURE < 1326146691 805304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION convincing. < 1326146714 687559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (filterM (const [True, False])) [] < 1326146715 840343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1326146724 256301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOO < 1326146724 974918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabinets for ten wacky monkeys < 1326146736 180298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shachaf shachaf * < 1326146745 66298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi < 1326146745 867068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _do_ know what a category is, don't you. this is a rather trivial example. < 1326146752 605920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t filterM < 1326146753 796275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] < 1326146754 590133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well on a good day, yes. < 1326146764 140666 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been almost thirty minutes away from IRC. I was starting to sweat. < 1326146784 667664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++tail)"1" < 1326146786 201999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1... < 1326146791 6357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326146791 323225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326146814 815092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:)<$>length<*>take 1)"1" < 1326146815 769032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146816 86288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326146821 383863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:)<$>length<*>take 1)[1] < 1326146822 415675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146833 588046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way to look at it. < 1326146887 648696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False])) [] < 1326146888 811291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Dynamic.Dynamic' < 1326146889 128525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferre... < 1326146892 949809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooo < 1326146893 933128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)[1] < 1326146894 885893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) < 1326146895 45114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `1... < 1326146899 990847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDyn < 1326146901 522666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> a -> a < 1326146914 992225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1326146918 680012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>length++take 1)[1] < 1326146918 836188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDynamic < 1326146919 700474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146920 57175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326146920 415108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> Maybe a < 1326146936 508556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you really needed that. < 1326146949 369672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromDyn (toDyn 2) undefined -- ???????? < 1326146950 773125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1326146955 579049 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326146956 688198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>return.length++take 1)[1] < 1326146958 274476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146959 860084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: defaulting < 1326146966 207093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (:[]). is shorter < 1326146979 9913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:[]).length++take 1)[1] < 1326146979 605805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just trying to get it even shorter somehow < 1326146980 903338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146996 6627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[length,take 1])[1] < 1326146996 800438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146997 117317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326147008 10057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False]) . (`fromDyn` [])) [] < 1326147009 233063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Dynamic.Dynamic' < 1326147009 551428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferre... < 1326147010 225618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[(length++),take 1])[1] < 1326147011 177289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326147011 494634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a1] -> G... < 1326147025 300311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Dynamic is not the way to go about this :P < 1326147036 115389 :saberman_101!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147040 173482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saberman_101: hi < 1326147045 291804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t count < 1326147046 244502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `count' < 1326147049 795896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326147053 907376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Int < 1326147054 385909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List findIndex :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1326147054 564577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List findIndices :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [Int] < 1326147054 720815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1326147057 16998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> [a] -> Int < 1326147057 362353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False]) . (`fromDyn` [])) (toDyn []) < 1326147057 518588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndex :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1326147057 924552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndices :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> [Int] < 1326147058 81222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_concat :: BufferOp a -> [a] -> a < 1326147058 238174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[length,head])[1] < 1326147058 644941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1326147060 389751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Typeable.Typeable a... < 1326147062 375929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326147067 705232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1326147074 439576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh < 1326147076 391044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that shorter? < 1326147103 494590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\xs -> if length (filter id xs) > length (filter not xs) then xs++[False] else xs++[True]) [] < 1326147105 85198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[True],[True,False],[True,False,True],[True,False,True,False],[True,Fal... < 1326147106 36179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 char shorter i think < 1326147112 778674 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, all y'all should golf a Pascal's triangle generator. < 1326147114 917318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, predictable < 1326147129 250201 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was brought up on a mailing list I'm on. < 1326147131 830960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip[?x] < 1326147132 664630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (?x::a -> b) => a -> [b] < 1326147145 519324 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(\f->zipWith(+)f(0:f)++[1])[1] < 1326147146 982999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147184 170513 :saberman_101!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147206 72140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).(\f -> zipWith (+) f (0:f))) [1] < 1326147207 695367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147218 241077 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, that's much shorter. < 1326147220 76980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).(zipWith (+) <*> (0:))) [1] < 1326147221 780982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147227 275029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to get a structure like that? arbitrarily deep nestings of empty elements or whatever. < 1326147228 26894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).zipWith (+) <*> (0:)) [1] < 1326147228 977934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> a' against inferred type `[t]' < 1326147236 791485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(foldr(\v(p:q)->v:(p+v):q)[0])[1] < 1326147237 743519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147240 134196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think zzo made something like that. < 1326147247 834294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "ordered multiset" :P < 1326147253 380040 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326147266 90477 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147267 431126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((++[1]).ap(zipWith(+))(0:))[1] < 1326147269 217337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147288 881978 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1326147298 881758 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147303 175603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype T = T [T] < 1326147314 24325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Mu [] < 1326147320 934087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wassat < 1326147326 234186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = Mu (f (Mu f)) < 1326147337 726082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1326147345 641182 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo. < 1326147347 626958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Mu < 1326147348 717339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' < 1326147351 705366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1326147354 795882 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty In < 1326147355 787456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). f (Mu f) -> Mu f < 1326147361 223640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty fold < 1326147362 175825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fold' < 1326147362 850894 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326147363 169275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326147363 525357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty mu < 1326147364 401720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mu' < 1326147366 552175 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty cata < 1326147367 186973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => (f a -> a) -> Mu f -> a < 1326147371 435471 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src cata < 1326147371 753580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. < 1326147379 698056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cata out < 1326147380 530846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match kind `(* -> *) -> *' against `* -> *' < 1326147380 847963 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google type level fix and generic folds < 1326147381 4347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : When matching the kinds of `Mu :: (* -> *) -> *' and `f :: * -> *' < 1326147381 4547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: f a < 1326147381 801101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/12/type-level-fix-and-generic-folds.html < 1326147383 77856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cata" is WoW slang for Cataclysm < 1326147398 90340 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147398 610018 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WoW" is NetHack slang for Wand of Wishing. < 1326147413 145966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NetHack" is internet slang for hacking. < 1326147426 990794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"internet" is internet slang for internet. < 1326147432 780253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*internetworking < 1326147467 76404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope 3 people upvote me in the next date < 1326147468 941533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326147475 168275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope 3 people upvote me in the next 2 hours. < 1326147486 226906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is good at switching windows. < 1326147506 367473 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that how dating sites work these days? < 1326147529 732573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1326147530 50364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Dating is all about SO reputation these days. < 1326147583 246793 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO is all about whores < 1326147613 694834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is all "have you seen how large my SO reputation is", and all the ladi^Wpersons-of-interest are all "ooh!" < 1326147661 581729 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can even give to them out of his large... reputation < 1326147671 893971 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's reputation overflows the stack. < 1326147719 925327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's true! That's how I met lax. < 1326147732 635441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We tried to find your SO reputation number the other day by searching for "elliott", and then was all "hey the search found a Haskell question, this must be the right thing" and then it was just that that Conal dude was mentioned in the text. (But don't worry, we did think of searching for "ehird" too when that didn't pan out.) < 1326147745 667735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(filterM(const[True,False]).In)[] < 1326147746 622276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `L.Mu []' < 1326147750 197613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You tried to find my SO reputation as a group activity? < 1326147761 456081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you see, my wife was interested in your reputation. < 1326147770 316239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is famous. < 1326147775 565033 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's reputation precedes him. < 1326147784 122475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you've made it when fizzie's wife knows about your reputation. < 1326147791 776417 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is married?! < 1326147795 214229 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to crush my dreams. < 1326147803 385483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your reputation had just passed five thousand at that point; I see it's over six thousand already now. < 1326147810 248934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326147811 253237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147818 518026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t In < 1326147819 474920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). f (Mu f) -> Mu f < 1326147830 879819 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty InR < 1326147831 869860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Rec a -> a) -> Rec a < 1326147845 600406 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False])) (In []) < 1326147846 465569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147863 917437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Rec < 1326147864 205210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a } < 1326147864 361617 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147867 476822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Conal also has a Stack Overflow account! He has less reputation than me. < 1326147875 16861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon everybody will forget about THAT Elliott. < 1326147892 473024 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147897 974208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why on earth did your wife care about elliott's SO rep. < 1326147906 718448 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False]) . \(In xs) -> xs) (In []) < 1326147907 671581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147922 610055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who wouldn't? < 1326147923 86384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why isn't Rec defined as type Rec = Mu :. Flip (->) < 1326147926 740987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFORGIVABLE < 1326147941 708943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HELP AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO WISHES HE WOULD STOP < 1326147970 337881 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHY AREN'T *YOU* DEFINED AS type You = Mu :. Flip (->)??? < 1326147971 131393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, she often asks of #esoteric happenings, and it has been a PROMINENT TOPIC lately, has it not? We've certainly had some SO weather, eh? < 1326147976 886594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I AM < 1326147991 538475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(filterM(const[True,False]).map out)[] < 1326147992 333680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[t (L.Mu t)]' < 1326147992 650866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `... < 1326147994 286295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What is it with everybody talking about #esoteric IRL? < 1326147999 89853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1326148001 604855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326148001 939738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326148005 202633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAPPENS IN #ESOTERIC STAYS IN #ESOTERIC. < 1326148019 514042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the bits that leak out into the logs. < 1326148025 408552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we redact most of those. < 1326148064 806538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map In . filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326148066 550624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[In []],[In [In []],In []],[In [In [In []],In []],In [In [In []]],In [I... < 1326148074 318209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a victory dance < 1326148077 260213 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148081 149183 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is the ASCII CHARACTER THAT COMES AFTER ? < 1326148085 769741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Searching "elliott" also finds a Haskell question where Trevor Elliott is mentioned. :/ < 1326148090 73585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to assassinate the other Elliotts. < 1326148119 403438 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"assassinate" is like "murder" except the target is important, right? < 1326148124 529636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Now rewrite everything with Mu [] and you'll be an Ursula user. < 1326148131 384881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1326148141 73206 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148178 474791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably not worth noting that "splat" and "big money" are the official pronunciations specified for the * and $ operators in the original INTERCAL Reference Manual, which is most certainly an authoritative source if I've never heard of one. – C. A. McCann Apr 29 '11 at 20:23 < 1326148187 856724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO Haskellers know what's *really* important. < 1326148232 975673 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148239 930650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ana < 1326148240 723827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `ana' < 1326148243 744917 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326148245 809736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1326148253 736120 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell cheater_ you want him back. < 1326148271 850032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How kind. < 1326148291 520921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let ana f = fix (\g -> In . fmap g . f) < 1326148292 721791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326148295 420858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ana < 1326148295 740473 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148296 371967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> f a) -> a -> Mu f < 1326148310 5612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ana (:[]) 42 < 1326148311 753308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In ... < 1326148385 220103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(out<$>) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148386 203639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match kind `* -> *' against `(* -> *) -> *' < 1326148393 824778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326148394 181172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326148450 533542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(In . pure) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148451 524051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu f' < 1326148451 841414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.M... < 1326148457 156299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326148462 891337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326148471 172821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148472 837577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just ... < 1326148478 324707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just in < 1326148482 316587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` [] < 1326148483 785085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In... < 1326148494 530166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` (Left "") < 1326148496 277714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In... < 1326148589 457899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showList < 1326148590 409057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => [a] -> String -> String < 1326148636 591942 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148641 322448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> fix (In . f) < 1326148642 153678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Mu f -> f (Mu f)) -> Mu f < 1326148647 443656 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148658 21703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> In (fix (f . In)) < 1326148658 814553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Mu f -> f (Mu f)) -> Mu f < 1326148667 18822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...duh :P < 1326148677 223677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's the asTypeOf that broke yours < 1326148684 571887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (In . Just) < 1326148686 160979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (J... < 1326148704 302191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326148730 399358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl "sup" =~ // < 1326148733 622758 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326148750 947459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl "sup" =~ m// < 1326148751 818880 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326148762 168732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map var.filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326148763 119398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Symbolic.Sym a' < 1326148763 437139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against i... < 1326148788 872731 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had GHC 7.4. < 1326148842 608858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What system are you on? < 1326148853 226922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> (map f .) < 1326148854 101916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f [a] -> f [b] < 1326148863 612443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> (map f Prelude..) < 1326148864 562515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326148879 271874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, you realise there are GHC 7.4 binaries, right? < 1326148886 989057 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but I'm too lazy to install them. < 1326148892 150285 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, they're release candidates. < 1326148898 254952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f b < 1326148898 872396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies ($|) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy a -> a -> b < 1326148899 87277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies ($||) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy a -> a -> b < 1326148899 245717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies (.|) :: (b -> c) -> Strategy b -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c) < 1326148899 563629 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting until one of them gets voted in. < 1326148910 308034 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Democracy, you know. < 1326148929 673663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wget http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/7.4.1-rc1/ghc-7.4.0.20111219-x86_64-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 && tar xf ghc* && cd ghc* && ./configure --prefix=~/ghc-7.4 && make install < 1326148934 668580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326148935 143978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326148948 685068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I believe the Show superclass constraint has been removed from Num." PRAISE THE LORD < 1326149025 612651 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL PRAISE LORD ØRJÄÑ < 1326149036 90222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map(var.show).showfilterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149036 885669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `showfilterM' < 1326149041 100930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map(var.show).filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149042 687166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[[]],[[[]],[]],[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[... < 1326149168 944805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :judging by my programming, if i become lord i will solve all your problems, although not without accidentally obliterating a few countries in the process. < 1326149216 169296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the problems that don't require real work, that is. < 1326149260 76735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl @a = (undef); print @a // 1 < 1326149263 157717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "@a = (undef); print @a // 1 ": No such file or directory < 1326149264 446189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print @a // 1 < 1326149265 99312 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326149276 837599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print $a[0] < 1326149277 732373 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326149287 997265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print scalar @a < 1326149288 833669 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326149331 848020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (1,2,3); print @a // 3 < 1326149332 730897 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1326149334 547010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326149367 988236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so // is not entirely equivalent to a ?: as the docs suggest. < 1326149408 224612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326149414 305323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, you already wrote that < 1326149435 679555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> a -> b -> a -> b -> a < 1326149436 789701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List zipWith6 :: (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] -> [e] -> [f] -> [g] < 1326149437 107404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List zipWith7 :: (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] -> [e] -> [f] -> [g] -> [h] < 1326149440 5832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's fmap . fmap < 1326149712 305820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was hoping for an operator so i could just write var.show ... filterM(const[True,False]) < 1326149759 905740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326149760 61464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) < 1326149760 61657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (g :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) < 1326149789 396512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) `asTypeOf` fmap fmap fmap < 1326149790 351152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1326149796 178052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1326149810 245578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(var.show.:filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149811 196791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1326149811 513577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1326149817 337612 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much have one response to questions in #haskell these days. < 1326149818 609012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what :( < 1326149826 392580 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should understand why blah blah blah." < 1326149830 918 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a shachafbot. < 1326149833 829817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sym has a type parameter < 1326149871 56142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that didn't matter with map(var.show). < 1326149891 326874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can you powerset a Sym [a] ? < 1326149896 196759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326149903 758793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((var.show).:filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149905 347014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[[]],[[[]],[]],[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[... < 1326149912 265379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326149914 627178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..okay < 1326149917 157010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the problem was precedence < 1326149927 120803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or associativity, rather < 1326149935 689148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of confused as to how [] types as Sym [a] < 1326149944 365757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1326149953 769457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it types as [Sym [a]] < 1326149969 486781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t vat < 1326149970 786730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `vat' < 1326149972 846863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1326149973 875824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1326149981 758272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then var is not that < 1326150044 570818 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let varr :: Arrow a => String -> Sym (a b c); varr = var < 1326150044 727111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326150049 329959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :var.show is just a trick to get something of a fixed type that shows the same as whatever < 1326150129 639296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326150133 280660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t iterate < 1326150134 578436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1326150139 149798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1326150140 413886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1326150164 710999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapAccum < 1326150165 701770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mapAccum' < 1326150167 149552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Sym [a]] /= Sym a < 1326150168 723517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle mapAccum < 1326150169 78762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumL :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y]) < 1326150169 394502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable mapAccumL :: Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c) < 1326150169 550843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumR :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y]) < 1326150179 690269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1326150181 633952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference? < 1326150194 590790 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between mapAccumL and mapAccumR? < 1326150199 344921 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to foldl/foldr. < 1326150200 295839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so? that's why it's .: not . < 1326150212 966780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapAccumL is often the one you want, I think. < 1326150231 773779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, er... I don't know what's that doing here then < 1326150268 432554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as elliott would say, I don't understand function composition < 1326150297 613666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (var.show).: converts a list's elements to Sym a without changing what their printed as < 1326150304 495625 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So, like, you know functions? Imagine that you had, like, a function, and, like, another function. < 1326150312 769896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you had a value. < 1326150314 141607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not what I meant. :P < 1326150332 974483 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so you applied one function to the value, and then applie the other function to the result of that. < 1326150333 130850 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far so good? < 1326150333 131030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also poor explanation < 1326150338 824929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it's a function on the right producing a list, too < 1326150349 559794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function composition is the same thing, but WITHOUT THE VALUE. < 1326150371 713489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's.... < 1326150393 945519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :var( show ( (filterM (const [True, False])) x) < 1326150395 543774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326150404 725525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-) < 1326150413 197089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326150414 726445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326150415 936915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL f a [x,y,z] < 1326150416 887941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr (SimpleReflect.Expr, y)) < 1326150417 234030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1326150424 767355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Lame? < 1326150437 453029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, it's fmap (var . show) ((filterM (const [True, False])) x) < 1326150450 922570 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Expect f to return a tuple and expecting SimpleReflect to Do The Right Thing with it is going a bit far. < 1326150463 447925 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's nothing reasonable you could even do there by hand. < 1326150469 156780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There Is No Right Thing. < 1326150475 308124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh caleskell okay < 1326150495 304407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, SimpleReflect isn't The Right Thing. :p < 1326150496 138101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :.: is caleskell < 1326150496 295633 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+1)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150498 96175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init56789",[6,7,8,9,10]) < 1326150504 317160 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+1)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150505 943848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init98765",[6,7,8,9,10]) < 1326150507 966909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There you go. < 1326150509 988140 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work it out. < 1326150511 959644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm aware of .: but I forget that it's a functor thing and not a function thing. < 1326150517 630472 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the example I gave there is kind of terrible. < 1326150525 131462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: accumE' x (Cons fs fss) = Cons xs $ accumE' x fss < 1326150525 287774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where (x', xs) = instant x fs < 1326150527 567521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+length a)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150529 195432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init56789",[9,11,13,15,17]) < 1326150530 622094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out which one I want to port to Stream. :p < 1326150532 734282 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+length a)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150534 318797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init98765",[13,13,13,13,13]) < 1326150540 739713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's L. < 1326150543 128024 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You probably want to port mapAccumL to stream. < 1326150574 789337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapAccumL is, if I'm understanding correctly, the reasonably-lazy one for lists. < 1326150656 102586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit < 1326150693 445577 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how function composition works, kallisti. That's how laxatives work. < 1326150731 263003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right. < 1326150744 112028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150744 268214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's how laxatives work. < 1326150745 734635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1326150747 639993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :797) shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150749 701717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 797 < 1326150754 86004 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150757 2655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150757 297205 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH. < 1326150757 970915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,2... < 1326150762 312428 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too long for your quote database. < 1326150765 482765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150771 744357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150771 903342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1326150772 61448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, no, I could hack it in, but HackEgo would chop it off on reproduction. < 1326150783 893452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shachaf is lies. :( < 1326150788 331662 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Which is good enough for me. < 1326150792 122337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like when stalker mode gets messages before irssi gets messages < 1326150805 288828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> takeStream 10 $ simulate (\e -> accumE 0 ((+1) <$ e)) (pure (Just ())) < 1326150805 447000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1] < 1326150807 390224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326150824 826776 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used stalker mode. < 1326150833 922983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it to verify that my line did not get cut off < 1326150848 453919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a better way I could be handling that. < 1326150854 359670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is just like reading IRC. < 1326150884 924939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd $ mapAccumR (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150888 857849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi handles line-wrapping, doofus. < 1326150889 16974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150892 663763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd $ mapAccumL (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150896 469821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150898 515794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep except no one knows you're there < 1326150898 845943 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had a way of reading IRC... < 1326150918 983801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect for humorous ragequits that you want to read the reaction to < 1326150924 537435 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kalliti: Unlike the normal situation, where no one cares you're there? < 1326150929 915412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326150936 146850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you're banned and you want to ruminate? < 1326150940 236136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalker mode has lots of possibilities. < 1326150981 655653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch one of mapAccumL and mapAccumR _ought_ to take the function flipped. < 1326151009 115658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can pretend to be really angry and quit IRC and then when someone keeps talking you log in to reply and then leave again < 1326151009 311319 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NO THAT'S RIDICULOUS < 1326151013 416195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott has done this. < 1326151026 958077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numerous join/parts < 1326151042 410295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by foldl / foldr analogy < 1326151080 149410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle traverse < 1326151080 982053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable traverse :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) < 1326151081 299217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f () < 1326151081 455581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies parTraverse :: Traversable t => Strategy a -> Strategy (t a) < 1326151093 713813 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326151094 718386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi have you ever used Control.Parallel.Strategies? < 1326151098 877468 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, foldl/foldr are wrong. < 1326151104 692564 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so are mapAccumLmapAccumR. < 1326151107 230081 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody is wrong. < 1326151114 44938 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong. < 1326151117 134984 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're wrong. < 1326151129 749581 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is wrong. < 1326151136 444113 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if elliott is wrong, I don't want to be right, man. < 1326151146 773930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes. < 1326151869 423159 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I believe the Show superclass constraint has been removed from Num." PRAISE THE LORD < 1326151876 252342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, fuck standards compliance! < 1326151881 573260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck software which does what it's specified to do! < 1326151897 340138 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll bow to the whims of the pitchfork mob any day < 1326152009 973587 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless GHC removes monomorphism restriction I will capsize five tankers in the ellingson fleet < 1326152077 63467 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC progresses way too slowly. < 1326152079 822565 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Grassgrow Haskell Compiler. < 1326152097 995252 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Glorious Glasgow Haskell-except-Num-has-no-superclasses Compiler < 1326152109 265802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym "Haskerr" < 1326152121 757612 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326152125 9218 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1326152140 522124 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I'd be fine with a solution where -XHaskell98 and -XHaskell2010 do what they're supposed to < 1326152156 594794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't? < 1326152160 339583 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1326152172 413087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with -XHaskell98, Show and Eq are not superclasses of Num < 1326152178 697385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which breaks existing Haskell code < 1326152179 330253 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the fancy new superclass default constraint kind variable polymorphism inference thing? < 1326152181 663315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some in standard libraries even < 1326152200 284176 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need generalized abstract superclass default constraint kind variable polymorphism inference synonym families to do that < 1326152206 782521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that had something to do with them being able to removing superclasses without breaking compatibility. < 1326152212 565007 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only a Java Monkey would fail to understand those < 1326152233 913912 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, there was discussion of ways to do that, but I don't think it's in GHC HEAD yet < 1326152234 230715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326152235 881865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326152328 441052 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh. < 1326152332 864140 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why did they remove that? < 1326152336 232925 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove what < 1326152341 185757 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The superclass constraint. < 1326152353 351724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm all for fixing the Num hierarchy, but removing a single constraint seems like the worst of all worlds. < 1326152353 668471 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man < 1326152366 605589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb because it breaks existing code < 1326152368 904090 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to do something! < 1326152373 28549 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it can turn a module which typechecks into one which doesn't < 1326152379 447676 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to upvote a Reddit post. < 1326152389 313557 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have «f :: (Num a) => ...», and you use Eq or Show constraints within f < 1326152420 995960 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326153036 943035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah, fuck standards compliance! < 1326153037 101148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck software which does what it's specified to do! < 1326153037 257350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : we'll bow to the whims of the pitchfork mob any day < 1326153050 657070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, GHC would be so much better if it just implemented Haskell 2010 and didn't deviate or extend upon it in any way. < 1326153066 655566 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That sounds like a strawman. < 1326153069 506359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think Eq is still a superclass, or pattern-matching would break. < 1326153071 729622 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm fine with extensions that need to be enabled, or at least can be disabled < 1326153075 13495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is, but so is kmc's. < 1326153091 319027 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it adds Eq when you pattern-match. < 1326153099 162825 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just like for OverloadedStrings. < 1326153101 791702 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, i don't think there's any way to change the non-compliant behavior < 1326153106 546535 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Eq is certainly not a superclass of IsString. < 1326153119 86312 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not an "extension", it's breakage which already broke standard library code < 1326153120 711569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is. < 1326153121 878255 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IsString < 1326153122 355148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Maybe you made a typo? < 1326153143 766756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The option to be standards-compliant is nice until you realise that you don't really have that option because all the libraries that everybody uses depend on tons of extensions. < 1326153160 647637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kind of a non-option anyway. < 1326153167 210429 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't mean you have to break packages that only depend on the standard. < 1326153209 174180 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those libraries document the extensions they use < 1326153214 541034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, but how many of those really exist? < 1326153242 154884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my objection is that the Haskell 2010 language is better specified and better documented than the "what GHC accepts this week" language < 1326153255 64511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Enough for actual breakage to happen. < 1326153260 242791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even when you deviate from Haskell 2010, you note those deviations with explicit LANGUAGE flags < 1326153262 51786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My point is that the vast majority of code out there doesn't work in a strict Haskell 2010 compiler because of dependencies; indeed, it perhaps cannot because of interfaces that are only implementable with such extensions. < 1326153271 434150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying standards aren't nice things. < 1326153273 662818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your point is irrelevant to my point < 1326153281 539245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that the Haskell report is already kind of irrelevant. < 1326153284 795383 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326153293 672552 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a common fallacy in #haskell < 1326153302 491772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, since people only use GHC, we shouldn't care about the spec < 1326153306 953228 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many reasons to still care about the spec < 1326153309 647574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about the spec. < 1326153318 680060 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is that it specifies what your programs mean < 1326153324 564684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a level of detail which the GHC manual does not < 1326153328 414163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about what the ideal situation is, just what the actual situation is in my opinion. < 1326153337 25734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, I totally agree that specifications are good things. < 1326153347 634732 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most extensions, the GHC manual has a couple of informal paragraphs and a link to a paper about a vaguely related research project < 1326153434 807050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that while the situation is like it is, the vast, vast majority of code can't work with just Haskell 2010 anyway, so breaking Haskell 2010 compatibility isn't itself a reason not to do something. < 1326153443 773245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Breaking a lot of code" might be, though, and this change might. < 1326153477 885906 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling that the two of you aren't going to come to an agreement. < 1326153485 178899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also. < 1326153496 586715 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326153516 356220 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think it's really bad that this change can't be controlled with a -X flag < 1326153522 28906 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only because you can't opt out < 1326153530 153521 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because code which relies on this new behavior will not document itself < 1326153538 282020 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has had a number of changes that couldn't be controlled with a -X flag. < 1326153539 234639 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even test whether you're relying on it < 1326153547 38565 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of these were considered bugs, though, and fixed eventually. < 1326153553 21663 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, notable examples? < 1326153554 171999 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. PostfixOperators. < 1326153562 911314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326153564 496098 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1326153570 800311 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some others in that vein. < 1326153576 336761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl doesn't have a standard and it works just fine. :> < 1326153577 178809 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's also not in the class of "GHC accepts some programs which technically should be rejected" < 1326153579 163295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, if it makes you happier, the next standard is practically guaranteed to include this change now GHC's done it, making it standard once more. :p < 1326153584 115044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1326153594 329165 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced < 1326153598 54174 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ;P