< 1325462404 898950 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325462937 527404 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325463040 448015 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti Phantom_Hoover update no Ngevd because he's not here < 1325463132 556927 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463178 697093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ping < 1325463594 812726 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325463643 131404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463820 979249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463855 930133 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-223.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325464079 55397 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/coppro < 1325464081 972181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. < 1325464096 799198 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/ngevd < 1325464100 507444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​=pzҶ*Gm...Zo'.LƖ2..`W0O.G?H.7x=9h..> #I.nb.s#mN~s>.2. ?.p?..b6$p9.wVgD.\...jMN*uaD.(..j+vߨnQ \ ^&4,.>&G*R}N!!1.|p'A(;iEﺾ.}.kAiyWb%cM.JE4XMQ_.2.W5^^..9..\,[!DP[Djx^.:Nߩsf..g벍?.?̥"tq.Ƚ2....v0.<θ¹y=I^^.9{r:c;'{нi@FU/Jv...a.-v < 1325464594 795485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *`? coppro < 1325464670 297376 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1325464918 198293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? coppro < 1325464921 452995 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. < 1325464935 507576 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes that Gregor set that < 1325464936 965226 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325464938 729872 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1325464943 720741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you assume correctly < 1325464960 119071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `learn coppro < 1325464988 949108 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-02.txt:00:42:40: `log `learn coppro < 1325465191 718767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle atomicModifyIORef < 1325465192 56861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IORef atomicModifyIORef :: IORef a -> (a -> (a, b)) -> IO b < 1325465748 531838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 16:08:22 Is hSetBuffering stdin NoBuffering >> hSetBuffering stdout NoBuffering supposed to work on Windows? < 1325465749 239974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1325465760 916987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/2189 < 1325465774 795326 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1325465880 695839 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you reading #haskell logs? < 1325465888 537861 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of just joining the channel? < 1325465896 958569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you're there now. < 1325465906 821732 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only there was a mechanism for posting directly into the logs. < 1325465940 170024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I read logs to figure out why it was so silent. < 1325465984 537479 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Curses, you've figured out our "silence as soon as elliott joins the channel" plan. < 1325466187 682059 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be terrible if someone invented a mechanism to post directly into the logs < 1325466191 491385 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as by saying things in the channel < 1325466321 890335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk < 1325466543 340612 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bookmarks < 1325466555 107367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :( at bug lasting for so long < 1325466663 855616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's the touch of Deewiant. < 1325466671 473638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every compiler bug he touches never gets fixed, ever. < 1325466676 383869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because n=2. < 1325467086 332953 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way too fix "writeFile complains about too-many-open-files" is obviously to convert Char to Word8. < 1325467102 746640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1325467145 4304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: His message implies to me that he hadn't actually written it yet. < 1325467154 515437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm a bit unclear, but tell you what I've write it using String and System.IO.writeFile and if it crashes becasue too many files are open, then I'll know I need to change something. < 1325467159 951977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "I've" should be "I'll". < 1325467817 670859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Cracked only started in its current form in 2007? < 1325467832 786695 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325467862 211115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone from 'crappy ripoff of Mad' to 'crappy ripoff of Maxim' to 'respected(ish), well-known website' very quickly. < 1325467899 734518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO respected. < 1325467948 435583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as in the name is well-known and there isn't any great demerit associated with it. < 1325468034 580724 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325468521 678362 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325468528 813376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325468530 169988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325468551 706206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New rule: Balance ":-(" and ":-)" smileys. < 1325468571 319954 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noses :-( < 1325468582 661120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( :-( :-( < 1325468650 766385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys watching Sgeo detail all the ways in which Active Worlds' API is the most broken piece of shit ever without actually being able to bring himself to say "it's a terrible library for a terrible game". < 1325468660 268928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also seriously why don't you just implement the network protocol. < 1325468675 809953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a terrible library for a good game. < 1325468684 441300 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, against the TOS I think. < 1325468691 252413 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't know it < 1325468704 112316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Against the TOS in a completely indistinguishable way. < 1325468709 752437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no, it's a terrible library for a terrible game. < 1325468732 210894 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are things you cannot do with the SDK that you can do with the network protocol.. < 1325468829 468407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't do those. < 1325468940 297690 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325469071 997861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com TOPIC #esoteric :This cannel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325469154 988656 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Good point. < 1325469222 730705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com TOPIC #esoteric :This channel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325469466 76217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX can make file with binary specials although DVItype will show a message about non-ASCII specisl if you do that. < 1325469537 705402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf can't make file with binary specials. < 1325469621 319957 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary specials! Eight bits for the price of seven. < 1325469666 357496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it because of the printer drivers for the new computer I will make, are all DVI-based, so it uses what are called "Black Associates specials" which are binary data in DVI specials (although a DVI file with no specials will still print perfectly OK). Such as, colors (CMYK + grayscale value + pure black/white only value) < 1325469728 308644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, TeX has no command built-in for converting numbers to binary data to specials, so I wrote macros to do that (TeX is very powerful and can do these kind of things!). < 1325469768 824170 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I can put 1-byte numbers, 2-byte numbers, and 4-byte numbers. All are big-endian to be consistent with the format of other numbers in DVI file. < 1325470005 20042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, #haskell is still bad. < 1325470191 664600 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe it's because zzo38 is no longer in there. < 1325470213 688844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325470334 439251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, am I helping or hurting? < 1325470345 713632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people ask questions like that? < 1325470391 169202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most likely answers range from lukewarm to negative. < 1325470569 500300 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325470756 969846 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325471739 878900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think #haskell is bad too they don't like to answer my questions, sometimes other thing they didn't answer either < 1325471804 688062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: We have consensus. < 1325472265 210231 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Questions like what? < 1325472339 688282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325472342 904625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oasijfoiasjdfoaijwrglkjwelgkjweaklgja < 1325472347 728672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1325472350 369151 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1325472352 25062 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokko < 1325472354 241237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooijoijadj < 1325472602 772226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1325472608 441142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Like elliott, am I helping or hurting?. < 1325472619 238441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how many phds do you have now < 1325472624 184546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott, are you the same elliott i talked to last time i was here? < 1325472627 178083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325472660 33616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really look like him though < 1325472670 562373 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have zero (0) phds < 1325472676 290627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325472680 591721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325472681 986278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325472685 114684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still? seriously? < 1325472688 267185 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325472692 331357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in a university yet? < 1325472720 378852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, i'm skipping the university thing and just getting the phd. < 1325472727 267785 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1325472727 432494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm efficient, unlike you < 1325472770 766839 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't PhDs typically involve universities too? < 1325472798 79480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's what they tell everyone to keep out the riff-raff, but if you're actually any good you just get the Ph.D. direct. < 1325472803 814303 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have made peace with failing at life. < 1325472806 865656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course people like oklopol never find out the real truth. < 1325472818 476874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must resign themselves to the fake truth. < 1325472835 975083 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i just do what people tell me to and try to make the best of it. < 1325472866 619653 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Direct from The Elliott PhD Authority? < 1325472869 800289 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drugs help < 1325472879 504501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fight club < 1325472908 148018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325472996 36838 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: University of Phoenix, obv < 1325473220 276799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I fixed a silent type error in some unsafeCoerce-using code today. < 1325473224 713224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god I use Haskell! < 1325473304 932124 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325473469 630847 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325473661 117789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Was it *your* unsafeCoerce-using code? < 1325473687 246597 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I have no sympathy for you. < 1325473699 857086 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have enough sympathy for everyone < 1325473720 843045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325473724 850620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, sort of. < 1325473732 920300 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take oklopol's sympathy, then. < 1325473736 140157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote about a third of it. < 1325473736 985812 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325473747 992513 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you introduce unsafeCoerce to it? < 1325473760 903191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. But I did suggest doing so. < 1325473765 474266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although so did other people at the time too. < 1325473777 172869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It previously abused an IORef and unsafePerformIO for the purpose.) < 1325473785 382390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not the polymorphic wossname trick, though.) < 1325473797 62758 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to implement ST with just unsafeCoerce and Any, right? < 1325473809 67766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no other functions or types? No. < 1325473817 373775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need (->) at the very least. < 1325473833 523307 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, as the only unsafe features. < 1325473841 50278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the safe ones allowed too < 1325473851 698872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides ST < 1325473883 572065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement ST with just unsafePerformIO, too. < 1325473893 484501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can construct STMap with unsafeCoerce and Any. < 1325473903 392127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you hear reactive-banana is getting dynamic event switching??? < 1325474167 606208 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474234 352645 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the logo of reactive-banana should be an actual radioactive banana. it'd of course look like a normal banana but it would actually be delivered to you by mail when you go to the website with some glue so you can stick it on your monitor and your death would be the difference between radioactive and not. < 1325474361 365778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474362 43341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could forward that suggestion onto the developer if you'd like. < 1325474368 988424 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should < 1325474425 95145 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325474438 654712 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps you can't make it a surjection since i don't think great ideas are extensions of humans. < 1325474457 191036 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes the best math jokes < 1325474487 28634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love you oklopol < 1325474525 57044 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should've said epimorphism since the term extension is only used for morphisms of dynamical systems afaik. < 1325474535 977481 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(epimorphism instead of surjectiom) < 1325474539 185633 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*surjection < 1325474548 633746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today < 1325474574 827194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see the irc boats < 1325474600 515448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474615 204327 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc boats aren't in the first ep < 1325474662 46652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474665 350911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :791) speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474741 755540 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474752 625511 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325474756 800195 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea in the episode was that there had been 13 rapes plus some murder on the side and the cop's brother is a "world-class mathematician" and he made a formula that told them where the rapist probably lived. he lived there. < 1325474803 241154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you have now seen every episode of numb3rs < 1325474813 234246 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually he didn't and then their dad told them herp derp maybe he occasionally rapes ppl near work to save the rape commute. < 1325474842 194788 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he was like omgomgomg so simple and predicted *two* zones < 1325474863 851749 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one was where he lived and one was where he went to work < 1325474922 662048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the first cluster was where he used to live. so 13 points were enough to pinpoint three locations around which the guy had occasionally done some raping. < 1325474986 182882 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i'd be so hooked after a few episodes, but i'm not sure i want to be associated with this devil porn. < 1325475245 678840 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is a show where in the pilot they try to prove that a space is compact. their only clue is that it is sequentially compact, but the space is clearly not metric. naturally they must consult The Oracle. < 1325475721 81633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this do as a syntax for a MML compiler? data Token = Number Int | Name String | Block [Token] | Note Note | Text String | Bar deriving (Eq, Show); data Note = Note { noteLetter :: Char, noteOct :: Int, noteAcc :: Int, noteLength :: Maybe Int, noteVol :: Maybe Int } deriving (Eq, Show); < 1325475763 572164 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325475795 317196 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325476274 728054 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update. elliott, kallisti update. < 1325477481 930993 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325477498 847157 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325477523 724545 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1325477528 508130 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Changing host < 1325477528 672328 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479346 742830 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479381 823421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever play single player Scrabble? < 1325479521 966644 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479565 799207 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 249 seconds < 1325479720 555241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325479988 770145 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are the same as two players, except that passing is not allowed. < 1325480203 625867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing should be allowed imho < 1325480268 270305 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes passing is allowed, but if you do, the game immediately ends and you lose points according to your letters in your hand (after replacements are drawn). < 1325480281 959053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1325480301 165546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another rule sometimes used is that there is a time limit for the entire game, and the game also ends if time runs out. < 1325480426 80462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you could also limit the number of times you can pass? < 1325480478 234326 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I suppose that is another possible idea you could use. (Although if there is a time limit, generally you are still not allowed to pass; you could make a pass limit with or without a time limit) < 1325481582 522955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I read somewhere describing type systems of programming languages like Haskell and so on as "Presbyterian" and "Catholic", on some article describing "Roman containers" although I did not understand all of the notation used < 1325482238 751392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr that < 1325482447 447108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Parsec's "choice" function should really belong to Control.Applicative instead. < 1325482479 975823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a fold with <|> < 1325482761 437871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (<|>) < 1325482761 946363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<|>) :: Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a < 1325482762 111030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Prim (<|>) :: (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) < 1325482762 111195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim (<|>) :: (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) < 1325482806 798841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They are all the same, Parsec's one is just for Parsec only < 1325482829 118551 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I just wasn't certain that <|> was in Control.Applicative < 1325483713 824336 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like Parsec very much. Even though they did define the Applicative and Alternative instance for Parsec, the designers of that system seem to not use them, from what I can see. < 1325483795 286364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why did they define their own operators with the same names and functions as the Control.Applicative ones anyways? < 1325484333 936032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: asum < 1325484335 600591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle asum < 1325484336 87354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a < 1325484349 525736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and because Parsec is actually the source of the Alternative operators < 1325484353 956555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, historical reasons < 1325484373 947174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is why. Shouldn't they fix it by now, though? < 1325484397 929470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should probably re-export the polymorphic versions < 1325484410 128590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that is probably what they should do. < 1325484474 842566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :submit a patch, it'd be like a five-line change :) < 1325484625 686136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that annoys me about the "you can install gentoo with three commands" quote is that it doesn't list the other two < 1325485034 715605 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is infinity a stream? < 1325485473 51857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325485485 45923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity is not a stream because that question is meaningless. < 1325485508 288015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Suggest strict state monad to apfelmus. < 1325485524 882213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: jokes are not known for their factual accuracy < 1325485548 930693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it could be both a joke /and/ factually accurate with just two more lines < 1325485554 414307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd be both amusing /and/ useful < 1325485574 177068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stand up comedians tend to employ this kind of humor, in fact. < 1325485587 406386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the truth is funny" is kind of stuff. < 1325485589 774730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-is < 1325485595 663706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, the joke's funnier if it's based on actual facts < 1325485664 317959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again, most of it is just incorrect sexist/racist bullshit so... < 1325485669 849655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the truth isn't very funny. < 1325485703 39122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would then be a /bad/ joke < 1325485707 777840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the timing would be completely ruined < 1325485738 980599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OTOH, I think the joke's much funnier if there are three commands, and that's the first < 1325485746 105596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only funny if it's true < 1325485770 20503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: How to be a shitty standup comedian in 3 easy steps: 1. Say stereotypical bullshit 2. I'm just saying what everyone is thinking! 3. Why are you annoyed, it was a JOKE. < 1325485779 282237 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it untrue < 1325485804 327081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the command would give you a gentoo installation assuming there are no stupid mistakes in it < 1325485807 689167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two other commands, but they just aren't provided < 1325485817 370708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :providing the other two would ruin the timing i agree < 1325485828 895568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other two commands are presumably system configuration, since that one already installs openoffice :) < 1325485838 288143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd give them later on in the same quote < 1325485841 582285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the comedic timing < 1325485844 409954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, which would ruin the joke < 1325485853 294520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even double-linebreak and give a "for the interested reader" PS thing < 1325485860 921027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't tell a joke and then say "wait I'm not done yet" and spend three minutes giving a pedantic discussion of the relevant facts < 1325485868 390204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to people who aren't ais523, that's really, really boring < 1325485875 918624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the joke is how bad the original joke is ruined < 1325485876 406302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will ruin the previous enjoyment of the joke < 1325485878 530705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not really complicated < 1325485882 671576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even a link would be enough < 1325485889 373806 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* to ruin the joke < 1325485894 937472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, look at me jumping out of this ridiculous conversation -> < 1325485913 37467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't leave me allone / im fallow suit < 1325485923 909603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallow Suit, famous comedian < 1325486160 120663 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325486361 830241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/src/reactive-banana/reactive-banana/src/Reactive/Banana < 1325486362 924290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good path < 1325486863 134454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be bizarre even without the repetition < 1325486873 887257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it the ~ there means home dir, not an actual directory called ~? < 1325486883 40803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-f2 on this computer interprets it as the latter, which is annoying < 1325486914 829464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :former < 1325486919 687048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's bizarre apart from the repetition < 1325487455 785230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is another use of <*> operator: parseInt = option id (negate <$ char '-') <*> (read <$> some digit); < 1325487460 210181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1325487488 68807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I alt-f2 and then use a ~ in either the command to run or an argument to it < 1325487491 764930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interpreted as a literal ~ < 1325487497 661457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not expanded to /home/ais523 < 1325487582 150589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd be bizarre even without the repetition what's bizarre apart from the repetition < 1325487596 888709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the name "reactive banana" < 1325487627 888997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "reactive" is taken :) < 1325487819 906302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm I need to start thinking about taxes. < 1325487997 139030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I made a parser of a MML variant. After a note you can have # or + for sharp, - or b for flat, x for double sharp, and you can have more than one of any of them. You can also have a optional length after a note, an octave shift ' for up and , for down, and a volume in parentheses. Persistent octave shifts are < for down and > for up < 1325488054 757537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is already more than most other MML that I know of. < 1325488173 65421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe another thing I should have is multiple notes in parentheses for making chords < 1325488198 468959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this look like good so far? < 1325488259 196800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, assuming you can double shift octaves and such < 1325488277 640384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an absolute octave notation would be good. A4 < 1325488284 339073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can include multiple ' or , to multiple shift octaves, or you can use persistent octave shifts such as < and > < 1325488295 512633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you plan to reserve that notation for things like chords. < 1325488327 750397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not intend absolute octave notation because you can use the notation like A4 to indicate a quarter note A instead. And you can have L and a number for persistent length setting. These are standard features of MML. < 1325488380 715093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use O and a number to persistent select an octave. < 1325488429 816679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should go to bed < 1325488461 296842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean, you can still use ## for double sharp instead, but x is a more common way of indicating double sharp in music notation. < 1325488481 544670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd also want a way to select time signature so that A4 has meaning < 1325488487 437811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325488492 775509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A4. could specify a dotted quarter note. < 1325488558 968221 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yes, that is good too; use . to specify dotted lengths. And the way to set time signature. How I have it, any words must be in lowercase because uppercase are used for notes and other single-letter commands. < 1325488581 759150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also you could write a parser that converts your notation into Haskore data structures and then you could take advantage of all of those libraries. < 1325488611 533554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I can add such feature; currently I am planning to use .S3M as output format but I can add more. < 1325488639 274197 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well Haskore wouldn't be used as an output format in this case, just as a means to save time by using existing code. < 1325488654 930287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Haskore can output to a number of different formats < 1325488686 106698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dude there's a csound backend for HasSound < 1325488706 516131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowercase words commands probably I can make most of them in Italian since music notations commonly uses Italian. < 1325488797 90766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: surwe. < 1325488804 620007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What formats does Haskore have? Anyways, I intend other things too, not only writing the music; such as, comments, instrument definition (by file or by mathematical formulas), and later on, non-12-TET. < 1325488806 244986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm italian < 1325488809 613952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not treu) < 1325488862 356929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use ; for comments in file which are ignored, but another kind of comments that are copied into the sample names in the .S3M output file so that a .S3M player program can display them. < 1325490999 926183 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I include features which the most sophisticated .S3M tracker programs lack (in S3M output anyways; and, at least, which the free ones lack). But still use completely standard output format, which can be loaded in tracker programs. (I did already start writing this program and I know how to continue too) < 1325491346 134779 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325491347 463488 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325491355 36449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have used TeX, what in your opinion, are what makes TeX an excellent typesetting program? < 1325491413 2925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or bad, if that is what it is to you) < 1325491425 204862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad because hitler uses it < 1325491448 476391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitler uses TeX? < 1325491496 210392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a good reason anyways < 1325491569 672680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might! < 1325491586 855034 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still isn't a good reason < 1325491712 656750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you used TeX at all, anyways? < 1325491973 188634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325492080 355804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good for you? < 1325492095 900752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe! < 1325492145 272048 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many kind of its features have you used and what other things have you done with it? < 1325492171 233243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bet you didn't expect the TeX inquisition. < 1325492265 931766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i did not :( < 1325492440 395554 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update < 1325493149 239434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If making a Haskell package (one which is compiled into an executable; not a library) licensed under GNU GPL, is it OK to change the LICENSE filename to COPYING if the .cabal file is also changed accordingly? < 1325493196 684267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries I make in Haskell are public domain but for executables I will usually want GPL < 1325493270 633948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although Haskell Swiss Ephemeris library is GPL because Swiss Ephemeris itself is GPL) < 1325493369 150160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325493477 553538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, why does it try to copy the LICENSE file anyways (and result in error message) if public domain is selected? They should either add such a file (probably containing a public domain dedication and the message to use it for any purpose, even if your jurisdiction has no public domain), or make it not copy the file < 1325493536 721384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I notice, is the copyright notice is not automatically generated if GPL is selected; it is still commented out and you have to put it in by yourself. < 1325493660 875453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which jurisdictions have public domain and which ones don't? < 1325493681 874422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know US has it, but that is all I know < 1325493714 725637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany doesnt iirc < 1325493721 277955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I know is some people have said that some jurisdictions do not have it. It is why the WTFPL is made up < 1325493731 179165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325493746 251469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be prudent to find out if Sweden has it for me. < 1325493806 228505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should fix the cabal simply for that reason, which is that some jurisdictions do not have public domain, so that the message to do anything with it can still be provided anyways < 1325493835 87867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott test < 1325493835 291896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1325493838 328567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1325493848 94925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you got a message? < 1325493849 300470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :colloinkgravisom < 1325493851 777835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the message typoed? < 1325493868 613247 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell olsner test < 1325493868 946418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1325493875 260214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't < 1325493878 667530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it didn't record it < 1325493885 208074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could using other channels < 1325493897 920932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it is kind of ambiguous if it is typoed or not < 1325493900 161836 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that I can tell myself without using lambdabot < 1325493926 856228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck me. I been on windows for a few days and I reboot to linux and have over 1 GB of updates to download... < 1325493932 219906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also ask someone else to do it for you, if necessary < 1325493958 457401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I guess so yeah < 1325493973 158767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot does this work? < 1325493973 657772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1325493978 165405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325494001 667361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably that should go to whoever runs the bot < 1325494008 302517 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cale < 1325494008 802157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325494013 112190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, right < 1325494030 278767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have anything like the ADMIN command of IRC? IRC has ADMIN command tell you the information < 1325494048 79247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually work I wonder < 1325494054 318693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does < 1325494090 392591 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325494090 892408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti said 5d 2h 36m 2s ago: Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325494100 875688 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't dreg up the past lambdabot < 1325494187 329083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it doesn't work due to undefined but ignoring undefined value, it will be mathematically the same thing, so it is just as good for computing derivatives and isomorphisms and so on < 1325494200 112173 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, kallisti counting bottoms, #haskell's favorite pastime that < 1325494215 731300 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1325494245 603795 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not *the* favorite, but it's high up on the list anyway < 1325494340 80562 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I calculated the derivative of list type, someone said it is the correct derivative but doesn't seem a correct zipper. < 1325494376 417903 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was oerjan. < 1325494409 462157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it was oerjan < 1325494450 270020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it is a correct zipper? Or is it a correct derivative but not a correct zipper? < 1325494457 68947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why? < 1325494685 366857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls < 1325494689 646031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wrong computer < 1325494715 457399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using synergy and if fucked up my input focus somehow) < 1325495356 642974 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t, LTL types FRP. This is kind of cool. < 1325495557 811397 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325495833 998538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325496232 757806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is FRP and LTL in this context? < 1325496267 501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional reactive programming / linear temporal logic < 1325496270 435556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325496272 463350 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional reactive programming and linear temporal logic respectivelyi. < 1325496274 67566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i < 1325496331 594055 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325496658 103666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325496658 436794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1325496658 768928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1325496765 457853 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325497127 649241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325497618 423214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325497626 266505 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325497647 866258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1325497714 119868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's xkcd is alright, except for the punchline < 1325497769 62190 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325497806 493482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/997/ I like this one < 1325497827 24260 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the joke < 1325497846 670097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, in the one kallisti linked? Same < 1325497855 68716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is some US politics joke or something? < 1325497884 18733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is that so? < 1325497903 964901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a quiz show? < 1325497912 269510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was? < 1325497919 965759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's an incredibly lame joke about a radio quiz show in the US. < 1325497925 902260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only old people and nerds listen to. < 1325497927 400150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1325497997 943736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny though because any newsworthy events involving Peter Sagal would basically have to have a headline following that format. < 1325498004 271283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's required. < 1325498007 742591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325498097 361259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's basically nothing political about NPR, except recently Republican media seems to think NPR is liberal. < 1325498105 369656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's just like... not stupid. < 1325498111 861372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not stupid = liberal, I guess. < 1325498406 773834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually NPR has been known to fire people for displaying a political bias in their personal life. < 1325498438 639013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the issue as long as it doesn't affect them in their profession < 1325498465 158635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not one. I think NPR is just really strict about it for public relations. < 1325498510 736806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could easily backfire. < 1325498519 971320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1325498545 609133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes firing people for publically displaying opinions probably isn't good press. < 1325498592 382301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grantedm a lot of the firings over Occupy Wall Street were freelance radio reporters and not actual NPR staff, for what it's worth. < 1325498663 95384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325498733 898845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but freelancers is probably like... the majority of NPR's employees. < 1325498741 845931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that includes a lot of people that work for NPR stations. < 1325498835 108638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy #esoteric. (And do what, exactly?) < 1325498872 902214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, talking about esolangs all the time? < 1325498874 886901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1325498934 720570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess as a protest of all the non-topicalness that goes on here it could work. < 1325498940 482312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325498979 382035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_ = "test"; s/(.)./@/; print $1 < 1325498981 633176 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1325498986 743359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325499003 253420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never accessed a capture group from a substitute, actually. < 1325499008 788645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wasn't sure if it actually did that. < 1325499042 999661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean to say you have never used a $n in the replacement part of a s///? < 1325499107 861326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm... maybe I have. < 1325499110 478097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I have. < 1325499378 253310 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325499885 438317 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325499894 683172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] == [] < 1325499895 202463 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325499897 909337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] eq [] < 1325499898 405926 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325499987 306902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm what is a reference in numeric context I wonder < 1325499994 195380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] < 1325499994 861407 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7ff735781d48) < 1325500001 202770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess its address? < 1325500018 281151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "0xFF" + "OxFF" < 1325500018 947138 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325500041 157668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1325500049 117891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "0xFF" + "0xFF" < 1325500049 618486 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325500073 739327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perl doesn't attempt to read hex literals when converting a string to a number. < 1325500129 778671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that looks like a reasonable address for the stack to me < 1325500151 310010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325500155 925735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ARRAY(0x7ff735781d48) < 1325500156 956292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1325500173 731886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that look like the address to a stack? it looks like an arbitrary location in memory to me. < 1325500173 898624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like about the usual location of the stack on Linux (x86-64) < 1325500225 686836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, run cat /proc/self/maps a few time on a 64-bit machine < 1325500232 469931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ah yes good ol' 7ff735781d48" -- Vorpal < 1325500238 243706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, look at [stack] and [heap] < 1325500246 358066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, stack is usually 7ff* < 1325500268 844531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heap tends to start with many zeros < 1325500308 360927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, libraries tend to be mapped around 7f0*-7fe* < 1325500322 950357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not so hard after all < 1325500333 26988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /proc/self/maps | egrep '[stack]' < 1325500344 173988 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00400000-0040c000 r-xp 00000000 00:09 842385 /bin/cat \ 0060c000-0060d000 rw-p 0000c000 00:09 842385 /bin/cat \ 0060d000-0062e000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] \ 40000000-4001e000 r-xp 00000000 00:0f 835040 /lib64/ld-2.11.2.so \ 4021d000-4021e000 r--p 0001d000 00:0f 835040 /lib64/ld-2.11.2.so < 1325500347 505259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /proc/self/maps | egrep '\[stack\]' < 1325500351 88274 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7fbff23000-7fbff44000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] < 1325500378 345196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 7ff* on my computer though < 1325500383 981237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my system the stack is consistently 7fff* for cat even < 1325500387 145698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :three f < 1325500396 436129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "7ff" is quite stacky indeed. < 1325500426 118764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, but 7ff* is a huge range of addresses.... < 1325500439 734732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack or vdso, and you usually don't have addresses into the vdso < 1325500457 992604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes and? < 1325500467 47792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there is nothing much else up there < 1325500477 676408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the vdso is) < 1325500519 770168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, your point was? < 1325500560 355674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite close to the top of the bottom half of the canonical-form 48-bit addresses. < 1325500578 281933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... this notion of stackiness is purely arbitrary because you just see 7ff a lot. Seeing another address with 7ff* does not tell you that it's "stacky" < 1325500582 366044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you tend to pick up this sort of vague feeling for what an address is when debugging C code. Like "hm, that address it crashed from accessing, looks like it is related to something on the stack" < 1325500602 910642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {[]} 1..10 < 1325500603 410305 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7fc52154fd48)ARRAY(0x7fc52156da90)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dac0)ARRAY(0x7fc52156daf0)ARRAY(0x7fc52156db20)ARRAY(0x7fc52156db50)ARRAY(0x7fc52154fb98)ARRAY(0x7fc52156da00)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dc88)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dcb8) < 1325500612 752729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly allocated on the stack I suspect < 1325500638 993934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, or in a mmaped area up high < 1325500640 901997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could happen < 1325500646 938847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not on the heap though < 1325500694 337518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325500720 25103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at perl here indicates it does mmap some anon mappings < 1325500724 9710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be one of those < 1325500731 275930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7f07f9850000-7f07f9851000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 < 1325500731 442935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7fffc0302000-7fffc0323000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] < 1325500737 584143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aanon mmappings < 1325500749 492982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually that one is there with cat too < 1325500753 688865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not that one < 1325500759 947798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that is libc related) < 1325500774 927890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then iirc glibc allocs huge chunks from mmap) < 1325500783 569642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_ = []; s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; print eval; < 1325500784 237092 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :140303706385736 < 1325500807 784695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually when I do that locally, the []s seem quite heap-allocated. < 1325500810 699967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't explain why perl would allocate from the same mmaped page as something that is there in cat) < 1325500813 531520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e 'print map {[]} 1..10; print "\n";' < 1325500813 697692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x1492d48)ARRAY(0x14b0480)ARRAY(0x14b04b0)ARRAY(0x14b04e0)ARRAY(0x14b0510)ARRAY(0x14b9b88)ARRAY(0x1492b98)ARRAY(0x14b03d8)ARRAY(0x14b0408)ARRAY(0x14b9cd8) < 1325500822 849076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange results with !perl then < 1325500832 859444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah those look heapish < 1325500866 288486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :look heapish for me too < 1325500876 341396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess it is possible plash does something weird? < 1325500886 8024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why it would create a different heap though < 1325500910 738471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fgrep '[heap]' /proc/self/maps < 1325500913 777232 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00613000-00634000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325500918 996673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem so < 1325500945 292737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval}; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500945 812292 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.2124 line 1, near "};" \ Execution of /tmp/input.2124 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325500957 194461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500957 860175 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500960 367430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500960 867279 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500962 294202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl system("cat /proc/$$/maps | grep heap"); < 1325500962 960612 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7f7526a10000-7f7526a50000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325500963 626294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500964 297182 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500976 476775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!perl" is EgoBot, though. < 1325500985 967893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's quite a high heap. < 1325500996 969858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325500998 709515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1325501003 33488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print []' < 1325501006 45508 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x605d48) < 1325501013 488916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SO "STACKY" NOW EH? ASSHOLES. < 1325501016 522799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325501017 892418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl & fgrep '[heap]' /proc/$!/maps < 1325501021 224866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :006e2000-006f5000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325501033 287261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really been following the sandboxings; at least HackEgo runs on that umlbox thing nowadays, not plash. < 1325501033 955328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought egobot and hackego had very similar setups? < 1325501039 326325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh okay < 1325501043 158813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that could change things < 1325501049 696426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why umlbox? < 1325501056 426155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1325501066 695968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that is user mode linux then I guess that changes stuff a lot < 1325501072 735930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl <<< '@x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]);' < 1325501073 734951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIH syndrome, maybe. < 1325501076 261620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :109176 < 1325501081 141964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my. < 1325501083 876374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for why not: why would you want to fix something that wasn't broken? < 1325501092 73134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it broken in some way to use plash? < 1325501101 793400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ? < 1325501102 958903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Plash relies on a glibc patch, and is, as such, difficult to maintain and out of date. UMLBox relies only on UML (Usermode Linux), a component of the Linux kernel, and requires no patches to UML. Furthermore, UMLBox requires no special privileges to install or use." < 1325501108 942688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the umlbox page.) < 1325501110 815541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the address difference is much higher on hackego < 1325501112 775046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :than on egobot < 1325501113 980356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501125 546724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :between repeated []'s < 1325501128 710673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501192 822714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, looks like gregor made umlbox? https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/wiki/Home is the first hit for me < 1325501224 998742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print `perl -v` < 1325501225 997960 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on \ this system using "man perl" or "perldoc perl". If you have access to the < 1325501236 51213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm same version < 1325501240 680457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -v < 1325501243 807844 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 53 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on \ this system using < 1325501247 882340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's why I speculated "NIH syndrome". < 1325501253 351281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501298 357517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Plash supports X11 programs. UMLBox does not, as sockets do not translate host-to-guest with UML. <-- so there is no networking at all? Because X11 works fine over tcp < 1325501320 488683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought uml had support for networking in general, so it should be possible to set up < 1325501320 988482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print v5.10 + v5.11 < 1325501321 488369 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325501333 823125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that just means "transparently supports". < 1325501376 340066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325501387 930021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like say would improve perl's golf scores, except that it currently requires a use v5.10 line. < 1325501391 438740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it looks like umlbox has no network < 1325501404 829785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; say "Hello, World!" < 1325501405 663084 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1325501437 535500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why say < 1325501447 583939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it any better than the traditional print? < 1325501451 462310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "Hello, World!\n" < 1325501451 961309 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1325501456 174484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501470 170105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better for golfing, except for the above mentioned problem. < 1325501489 548352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umlbox certainly can do networking. < 1325501494 480654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I don't know why it needs use v5.10. is it really going to break anything if you simply include it? < 1325501498 377420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325501501 733018 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Er, sorry, I mean, UML can. < 1325501505 331848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501506 831816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umlbox probably doesn't. < 1325501518 241329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325501521 110942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it does? There's that "fetch" thing. < 1325501527 595023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at the implementation, really. < 1325501534 332912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: "-X is very limited as yet. It can only forward DISPLAY=:0.0, it forwards it to DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:0.0, and it doesn't set any of the required environment variables (of which at least DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY are necessities). It will be fixed in time :)" < 1325501540 802631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, it does kind of support x11? < 1325501545 702198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it says further down it doesn't < 1325501549 21157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know how it is with documentation. < 1325501553 581141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325501597 360346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway don't you need to enable UML in the kernel config for umlbox to work? < 1325501601 639220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that always-on? < 1325501612 763400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it isn't then it probably does require root to install < 1325501664 518127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325501669 841453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "U" as in user-mode. < 1325501682 34474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The host kernel runs it just like it would any random process. < 1325501700 512001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it need a bit of kernel support to do memory protection between processes? < 1325501701 551300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1325501715 491934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, processes in the same UML instance < 1325501749 415779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly there was some bit that you could do optionally. < 1325501768 335937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, otherwise it wouldn't be secure, you could just write into the UML code itself < 1325501814 682324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it uses ptrace to catch system calls. Since anything else can easily be beaten < 1325501878 619434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess it could dynamically recompile code < 1325501922 708367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or what you're saying means there is a way to hack it. < 1325501941 98977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the internals have changed a couple of times; back when I used it, it certainly didn't use ptrace at least straightforwardly, since the whole UML kernel and everything running in it appeared as a single process in the host. < 1325501953 932401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can't trace yourself.) < 1325501976 468359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean that unless it gets some special support from the kernel or does full emulation like a more general vm (qemu, virtualbox and so on) there are going to be ways to hack it < 1325502002 228934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i thought you meant. < 1325502024 232141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course virtualbox and qemu generally gets kernel support, qemu doesn't actually need it though, but it runs much slower without) < 1325502043 984983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; there was a "skas" patch for the host kernel. < 1325502052 704744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it got included in the mainline kernel tree or not. < 1325502062 852895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, it was reasonably non-intrusive. < 1325502076 951632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it is integrated according to wikipedia < 1325502112 120020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what system calls are exposed to do this < 1325502121 682465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "old mode" used the "each UML process is a host process, ptraced by the manager for syscalls" approach. < 1325502126 730068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to take a look at the interface and see if it can be used in some interesting way < 1325502157 814397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is still the need to catch system calls also < 1325502194 869094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check the UML wiki but it's being unresponsive. :/ < 1325502297 614693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even find that wiki < 1325502320 853282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ -> The UML Wiki. < 1325502332 9766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed not responding < 1325502353 377335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will eventually give a 502 Proxy Error from uml.jfdi.org. < 1325502377 207709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325502474 113327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the old skas stuff seemed to use /proc/mm but that definitely doesn't exist these days < 1325502536 616605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most UML-related things seem quite obsoleted these days. < 1325502566 385233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc/mm < 1325502569 163439 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /proc/mm: No such file or directory < 1325502582 3559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all qemu-kvm or Xen or then the "containers"-style OpenVZ/vserver stuff now. < 1325502609 15977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325502657 944229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's using 'lguest' for some real-world thing, though. < 1325502666 148482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is lguest? < 1325502669 613229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, which style < 1325502720 608855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that hypervisor/paravirtualization thing. It's very very very minimal; but it was included in the mainline kernel quite early, as far as these things go. < 1325502752 593868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only lguest-related tool I've seen is the Documentation/virtual/lguest/lguest.c example code. < 1325502763 684768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325502788 994439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2.6.23-git13 and above", apparently. < 1325502813 356615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it might be a bit 32-bit-only. < 1325502873 614276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs copies of the "host" kernel as guests, if I recall correctly. < 1325503127 822635 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325503189 246356 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503220 329788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, steam got stuck in a loop of "loading game" dialogue popping up and closing < 1325503224 696759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to kill the process < 1325503267 50158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the "library" screen of Steam will look like if you win the "all the games" award. < 1325503269 870758 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503274 741582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, horrible? < 1325503298 410552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I wonder what the chances are < 1325503352 513325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :An empty search in the store returns 4178 matches. < 1325503354 180725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swat Effilry -----### < 1325503356 392056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1325503362 612028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I recently (yesterday) played portal 2. It was far better than the first one. I actually didn't give up halfway out of boredom this time. < 1325503367 535766 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1325503372 434747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it. < 1325503380 395832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the single-player side, anyway. < 1325503381 228630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO USE TRYING TO HIDE < 1325503382 337573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think the boss fight was terrible though < 1325503404 176641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Cave Johnson is one crazy man. < 1325503408 274253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325503411 525780 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com NICK :FireFly < 1325503417 965940 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1325503418 131284 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503462 506676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I found myself thinking "Trine 2 is a way better puzzle game" several times. < 1325503487 98045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when it comes to the story, trine 2 has a rather weak story, but the gameplay is way better in trine and trine 2 < 1325503567 953175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I couldn't quite get myself interested about the first Trine. < 1325503570 618644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down < 1325503570 782999 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!" < 1325503623 639788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I don't really like the difficulty in portal 2, I mean it is difficult for the wrong reasons. Usually it is hard because there is some white wall up high near the badly lit ceiling that I didn't spot that I had to check a walkthrough < 1325503632 850757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual puzzles once you locate all the components are not hard < 1325503679 111432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall very much of that, though I might just have forgotten. Hard it's not, that much is true. < 1325503682 774636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was just one puzzle in trine 2 where I had that issue. The other I had to think about were just mechanically challenging < 1325503736 374365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually platforming issues as well < 1325503835 639541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an ice slope that you need to get up in a late trine 2 level, it wasn't hard to figure out how: attach a grappable (sp?) object to spiky swinging ball overhead then grapple it as the thief and wait for max swing both of the spiky ball and yourself before you release < 1325503843 401252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :executing it was kind of hard though < 1325503864 336449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure if you noticed that in trine 2 (if you played it?) < 1325503884 544958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. < 1325503887 920431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325503907 695461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just handcuff it to a vending machine < 1325503913 295093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1325503923 314331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: infamous bug in Scribblenauts < 1325503928 923955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1325503931 524504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all the action levels can be bypassed by doing that < 1325503933 82153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened when you did that < 1325503940 809760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the item ends up inside the vending machine < 1325503944 21425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just vend it out < 1325503946 595169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325503953 32225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1325503953 370771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skip whatever puzzle you'd normally need to do to get the item < 1325503983 205978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would handcuffing an item do that < 1325503984 38255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for... because of a missing "Unknown Plugin (text/html)" this Java "personnel records" mess-plication apparently can't run. < 1325503994 439519 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503998 168472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lol < 1325504010 358444 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooo < 1325504015 849613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, I guess < 1325504016 16593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Frooxius < 1325504019 369618 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325504031 30264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing because I can never remember who's been here before and who hasn't < 1325504035 88382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes I can < 1325504039 868572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Vorpal's been here a while < 1325504042 34472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1325504047 904333 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's first time I'm here < 1325504058 673526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that guy "elliott" he isn't new either, right? ;P < 1325504074 546211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it'd be massively out of character here for me to not do `? welcome even though you've already been welcomed, and with a more modern syntax at that < 1325504076 43669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1325504077 416324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1325504081 32522 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325504091 397208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, modern syntax? < 1325504093 268248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325504099 308037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the `? syntax came first < 1325504108 992115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a less modern one then? < 1325504112 664784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`type welcome < 1325504115 583901 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found < 1325504117 948939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type welcome < 1325504121 75053 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome is /hackenv/bin/welcome < 1325504126 390217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how _vorpal_ remembers who is new when he cannot notice anything else, i don't know. < 1325504129 817169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/welcome < 1325504133 35265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/welcome < 1325504142 86959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DOS "type" = UNIX "cat" < 1325504150 78639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was looking for bash type < 1325504167 858741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is a terribly complicated piece of code < 1325504173 187327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } < 1325504174 531714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325504179 837657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Vorpal -----### < 1325504183 939232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1325504188 155449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what < 1325504195 595742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so it can take any number of nicks, including none < 1325504199 632034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504201 464225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrote that :P < 1325504217 54574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right. I don't really know perl < 1325504251 173511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course some of the complication is because it uses @ and ? as subprocesses < 1325504254 337557 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325504285 973163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to work out if @{" "} can be written as @ (that is, @ then space) < 1325504291 455694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't really use DOS commands, nor have I really ever used them more than a handful of times, so chances are I didn't type a DOS command by mistake < 1325504366 710560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Windows commands are based on them < 1325504367 900815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw did you ever consider making wol use UML? < 1325504375 53218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might end up less insane < 1325504397 619251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I choose to misinterpret that as Unified Modelling Language < 1325504397 784241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems EgoBot (but not hackego) switched to some home made umlbox that Gregor wrote < 1325504403 928270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, user mode linux :P < 1325504404 428106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because that makes absolutely anything more insane < 1325504405 594092 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, it's pretty active here. I was looking for some places about esoteric languages and the others I found so far seemed quite dead < 1325504410 916624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ISTR there's some reason user mode language wouldn't work < 1325504417 476988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: the wiki is alive, but mostly with spambots < 1325504423 688977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably the only other active esolang place, though < 1325504435 766364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unified Modelling Linux. < 1325504439 473683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, only problem is that many of us tend to easily go off on unrelated tangents :P < 1325504448 361505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a lot of off topic stuff in other words) < 1325504456 911636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually interesting though) < 1325504463 461486 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems to happen everywhere :D < 1325504470 228153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and ISTR there's some reason user mode language wouldn't work <-- user mode language? < 1325504480 898694 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambots? Are they creating bogus pages or what? < 1325504482 106344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh, just assume I'm drunk < 1325504486 25477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: they're spamming < 1325504489 800602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very surprising that people don't solely about a very narrow topic all the time < 1325504492 799660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for years. < 1325504492 964159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what spambots typically do < 1325504493 133255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just can't imagine you /ever/ being drunk < 1325504498 296146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not < 1325504498 963084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it just doesn't fit into my head < 1325504502 291939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/don't/don't talk/ < 1325504512 387322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you ever been drunk? < 1325504512 554276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assuming it tends to simplify things, it's easier than trying to explain < 1325504516 85452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1325504519 154873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325504525 682225 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I meant more in what specific form the spamming takes, like if it's in the discussions or making wiki pages < 1325504529 960619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to drink alcohol slightly, but realised I didn't like it < 1325504532 301879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: mostly page creation < 1325504536 345142 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504536 511183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally page replacement < 1325504616 206551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, good point < 1325504638 535052 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for a place where I can show my language, though I made more, but they share one common idea, though they're a bit different. Can I make multiple pages for each or merge them into one big page? < 1325504671 47862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325504673 97623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple pages is probably simplest < 1325504674 102998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw which java IDE would you recommend? I'm probably not going to use it more than a few times. Just need something < 1325504680 285052 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1325504684 99444 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325504688 771884 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325504694 425348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've only seen NetBeans and Eclipse; NetBeans is better, although I strongly recommend you get someone else to package it < 1325504706 943934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1325504714 330762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((spam )(SPAM ))(~:^Sa~^*a*~:^):^ < 1325504714 497050 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM spam SPAM spam spam SPAM spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...too much output! < 1325504714 664503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like using my distro to install it? < 1325504716 164697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1325504722 753667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, like that < 1325504731 898230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if I need it on windows? < 1325504740 991845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually need it on windows < 1325504748 121248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just a theoretical question < 1325504754 520026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it on Windows myself, but I've heard that the installer is slightly insane < 1325504759 545171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325504794 886474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as long as it doesn't use ant to build I'm happy. < 1325504828 4612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure what it uses to build, it abstracts that away from the user < 1325504835 542616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325504843 998676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's all right to say "too much spam!" in cases like the above. < 1325504844 834012 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouluthy atoll. on/ whole, as far as it went,/ sterility occurs in various degrees; in both, are much convoluted; but this is an important element in/ sterility :) many foreign plants; thus,/ flat or ventral surface faces/ axis or stem; but/ footstalks must have some natural origin. a wild scheme. < 1325504845 34 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is sponsored by oracle it seems. Hrrm. < 1325504854 375265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1325504854 542765 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1325504857 822986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504877 481445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the story behind the smilies now again? < 1325504893 993305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, btw that irc bot is written in befunge-98 (an esolang) < 1325504932 958465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs < 1325504933 122860 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) < 1325504934 292778 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool :D That's ultimate esoterism! x3 < 1325504938 390034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1325504938 595309 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1325504939 58446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1325504941 949993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hm? < 1325504942 116596 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, the boy, do i? are you sure the technology! < 1325504950 527722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, doesn't sound like iwc to me yet < 1325504950 694641 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the new king, you are dedicating yourself, does the allosaurus have a policy on death? i can just walk through the door to the secret dwarven passage, all the classics. dickens, austen, melville, wilde, hemingway. and of course jonson had never happened, quite frankly, from the sound of a hundred. in aramaic < 1325504956 494416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now it does < 1325504978 441809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does that model include the annotations? < 1325504994 567235 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is 2D language right? One that I'm working on is 2D as well, though works somewhat differently < 1325504999 7065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1325505007 374888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, that is befunge-98, not befunge-93 < 1325505022 276143 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sorry, I don't really know much about specific versions < 1325505030 168139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-98 is much extended compared to the 93 version < 1325505038 323265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, again? Okay, fungot's token-to-text code has a hardcoded list of punctuation for the first N (12 or so) tokens, same as the Perl script for training the models; unfortunately, the "remove tokens used less than K times" pruning phrase applied to those too, removing the smileys which Darwin did not use, causing the two most common non-punctuation tokens ("the", "of") get the integer indices of the two last punctuation tokens (":)", "/"). < 1325505038 488805 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what, the ability to be captured a spanish galleon! arrr!! the frame is engulfed the galactic cup! they've all been targeted! < 1325505052 940599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: -98 and -93 are reasonably radically different < 1325505055 442921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's some other punctuation mismatch going on, but that happens more rarely. < 1325505062 739802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1325505075 178903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1325505076 11031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it's just scripts; that's why it says "scripts" in the name. < 1325505079 911059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505097 331160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an "iwca" set too, but it didn't work quite as well. < 1325505103 199711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine < 1325505107 144096 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does the Befunge 98 have its own page on the wiki though? < 1325505124 582308 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind, found its homepage < 1325505128 985790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505131 491245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably sorted under funge-98 < 1325505136 19909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a catseye language < 1325505147 664400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we tend to just link to catseye for those, rather than try to repeat the whole thing ourselves < 1325505171 106872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey writes pretty good descriptions, and unlike most people, puts them on his own website rather than the wiki < 1325505181 835870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, if you plan to try to implement it speak with us first. The spec is terribly unclear and the behaviour of t is broken. So what people do is use Deewiant's test suite as a reference. < 1325505223 686303 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean, I'm implementing my own language < 1325505233 849451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but just as a warning :P < 1325505235 797018 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also 2D one < 1325505246 74556 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1325505248 564996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, funge-98 actually comes in 1D, 2D and 3D variants < 1325505273 737622 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm reading its page now, it said something about generalization < 1325505277 943954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the spec contradict itself once, is broken in another place and is terribly unclear in several places. < 1325505307 59397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, I believe fungot here runs on my befunge-98 implementation unless fizzie switched over < 1325505307 225394 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry, i don't know what they're up! < 1325505328 279637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still cfunge. < 1325505330 689215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505336 268195 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool :3 < 1325505344 455102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though probably quite an old version. < 1325505346 185992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess you wouldn't actually gain that much from using ccbi2. < 1325505380 723764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I recommend people to compile it with clang these days. There are some unresolved issues with gcc >4.5 and -O3 < 1325505390 568929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly computationally intensive, discounting people's ^bf/^ul stuff. < 1325505393 469986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should write an implementation for an esolang. < 1325505402 491612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell it miscompiles, but picking out the relevant functions compiles it correctly < 1325505413 837807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[]! I like to loop it, loop it. < 1325505416 570568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and I should write an esolang. I only ever implemented them < 1325505418 568654 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1325505429 104429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 100k cycles, IIRC. < 1325505445 747862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it could be worse. You could only design incredibly shitty esolangs. like me. :P < 1325505452 752445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325505453 85761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of my good ideas never finish. < 1325505460 636157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1325505483 694429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a very disciplined individual. < 1325505491 178808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway once tup gets support for variants I'm going to ditch cmake and go for autoconf + tup < 1325505497 795209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just getting myself to finish all of the important things is difficult enough. :P < 1325505500 968862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm working on that. < 1325505534 744542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which should provide some benefits, such as less broken handling of non-C files. < 1325505553 319534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that is one thing cmakes does get right: dependencies for C-files. < 1325505610 348177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my two language ideas involve an improvement to standard regex to make it turing complete (I wouldn't call it too esoteric as it's pretty normal) < 1325505625 251716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you know PCRE is turing complete for example? < 1325505654 217602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second idea is a sort of mix between graph rewriting and constraint/logic programming, with reversible semantics (basically it never deletes anything (unless I can come up with a sensible garbage collector but I doubt it)) < 1325505662 823573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, well yes. < 1325505667 485698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to make it more general purpose, rather. < 1325505671 910210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325505702 677928 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tup still doesn't have variants? Dang. < 1325505703 343550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, perl's regex are very general purpose, they permit embedding perl code to be executed at various points during the matching < 1325505719 989643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, I last checked like right before xmas. It /might/ have it now < 1325505726 738974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it reminds me of one reversible computing architecture i read about; it came with an actual physical bit bucket for when you really wanted to delete something :) < 1325505763 838167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but yeah what with all the build variants of cfunge that is what is holding me back from using it < 1325505774 138875 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I last checked a couple of months ago and thought it was on the top of the todo list :-P < 1325505791 457755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505798 530844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a bit down on the list < 1325505799 863960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since theoretically irreversibility is equivalent to heat production (landauer's principle) you'd want that to be physically expelled, i think < 1325505800 30613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am aware of all the different kinds of regex and what they can do. < 1325505800 195208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325505809 74106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, /all/ of them? ;P < 1325505818 169929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows all the regex. All of them. < 1325505819 836680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I'm a little poorly versed in POSIX regex < 1325505825 298278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I hate it. < 1325505827 966791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what about .NET regex? < 1325505845 386568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it? does that count? < 1325505849 398238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325505854 229033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the java ones? < 1325505859 54770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used those no. < 1325505860 554748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX regex come in BREs and EREs, is what you need to know. < 1325505867 386050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use ERE < 1325505872 50083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because BRE are annoying < 1325505888 823062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't plain grep use BRE iirc? < 1325505890 27929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BRE where you backslash everything? < 1325505900 599346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what emacs uses) < 1325505902 498189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I hate that. < 1325505903 8210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, egrep is ERE < 1325505906 606348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1325505907 106093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It does, yes. < 1325505912 19540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think emacs might use something else < 1325505913 723881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1325505930 201135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs basically reverses the semantics of backslashes. < 1325505936 596983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325505937 430133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is not strictly POSIX, IIRC. But it does involve a lot of backslashing. < 1325505941 862134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like BREs. < 1325505944 530943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505963 477152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also sed uses BRE right? < 1325505978 684280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]<[[<]>[.>]<]!I like to loop it, loop it. < 1325505978 848537 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to l ... < 1325505981 750313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you do like s/aa*/... rather than s/a+/... < 1325505993 409413 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has four forms: 'nomagic', 'magic', 'very magic', and 'very nomagic'. < 1325505997 906315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325506000 69341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah < 1325506003 531191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do they mean? < 1325506022 314714 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I'm a bit confused about the page creation though. My languages are designed for their own, also somewhat esoteric processing units (there's an emulator - virtual machine and also FPGA soft-core implementation, though not published yet, but it will be later). Should I make a page named after the processing unit or the language? Or maybe both, like "Unit - Language"? < 1325506033 390909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I was considering having a way to basically delete nodes so that you can manage memory. < 1325506038 428961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'magic' is the default and is quite similar to BRE, I think. < 1325506042 801887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, verilog or vhdl? < 1325506048 628250 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL < 1325506051 125432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506055 651092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to read it then < 1325506058 651753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is cool < 1325506064 204322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that you implemented that) < 1325506084 459437 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nomagic' seems to change only . and *, so that they need to be escaped if you want their special behaviour. < 1325506089 312733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that question is best to ask ais523 < 1325506119 524464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh, and the very variants? < 1325506125 356293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: page should be named after the language < 1325506138 853895 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok, thanks < 1325506139 752813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure to what extent it's going to be full graph rewriting. i.e. I don't want rewriting large subgraphs to be the main means of computation since that's really inefficient. < 1325506142 830205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the language has only one specific purpose, explain what it is on the page < 1325506152 564723 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'very magic' is like ERE, I guess: every character with a special behaviour uses it by default, and you need to escape it to match the literal character. < 1325506155 395470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325506168 139202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and very nomagic? < 1325506175 429269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 'very nomagic' is the converse: only backslash has a special behaviour. < 1325506176 638734 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is tied a lot though to the processing unit architecture < 1325506188 165618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506196 1322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't really see this language being efficient at all, considering how it works. < 1325506199 345932 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I want it to run in hardware. Yesterday, I was simulating 128 cores on my laptop. It ran 30 kHz (simulated) x3 < 1325506204 995372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, are there several languages for the same processing unit? < 1325506212 267130 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet < 1325506215 339831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506236 173636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 128 cores, is it some sort of massively parallel esolang? < 1325506241 783922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember seeing any of those before < 1325506246 873944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially it works something like this: constraint | pattern -> rewrite < 1325506254 763498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, wasn't there one that ais523 claimed would be good on GPUs? < 1325506287 896885 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it can automatically distributes the work on several cores, though it depends on the algorithm and how many cores are available < 1325506289 276597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checkout's basically eso by virtue of being too low-level < 1325506289 441229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each computation step produces a copied state of the graph, which each new node pointing to its predecessor(s) via a "past edge", which makes it possible to revert past edges. < 1325506297 438018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/which/with. < 1325506301 718302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really an esolang designed for GPUs, more a description of how GPUs worked converted to esolang form < 1325506305 592241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\./\// < 1325506318 829371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do they still work that way? < 1325506329 790140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so < 1325506332 997450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's changed in the last year < 1325506340 65654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is possible, I guess, but seems moderately unlikely < 1325506350 699815 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made huge block of instructions and then ran simulation just for fun on 128 cores |3 < 1325506368 387551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he's probably going to implement the graph lang in Haskell because why not. < 1325506402 58954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I'm missing an FMA instruction. I think most GPUs have them < 1325506423 164998 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I made some tests and if I make a simple algorithm, that's about 20 instructions and run it with one core, it takes 40 cycles to complete with one core and only 12 cycles with four cores. < 1325506430 794286 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, while producing same result < 1325506434 573003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yes, it matches what I know about GPUs pretty much < 1325506443 139467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure about the selection of instructions < 1325506452 606665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :selection of instructions was mostly a guess < 1325506494 953823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you don't seem to represent there being some hard coded functionality still left. Like dedicated linear interpolation circuitry or texture lookup units < 1325506510 387933 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports parallelism, but it's not so massive parallel like GPUs are < 1325506524 650777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it doesn't allow for hardcoded highlevel stuff < 1325506526 878590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very low-level < 1325506532 631853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /does/ allow for texture lookup; that's what rocopy is for < 1325506534 367244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also going to BREAK THE MINDS OF ALL PROGRAMMERS EVER by making & and | the boolean logical operators because this makes way more sense than && and || < 1325506535 318168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, I look forward to seeing this language < 1325506538 766427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1325506559 203730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with texture interpolation? < 1325506562 618966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325506571 191034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is like the key feature of textures to me < 1325506579 59151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325506597 163704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't used OpenCL so for all I know it might match that < 1325506600 496015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly used GLSL < 1325506758 873581 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325506786 970931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is abstain/1 like in intercal? < 1325506881 414284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like computed abstain forced at 1, then regular abstain < 1325506884 657127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still more like an if statement < 1325506888 877794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506892 152920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the same as an if except for timing < 1325506943 907168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc real GPUs tend to execute the same code on all processing elements in a given core, just throw away any results that wasn't actually taken by the given processing eleme nt < 1325506946 900957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :element* < 1325506967 496152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1325506971 409470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm getting at with abstain < 1325506975 82760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325506982 429975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code has to be executed, it's just that it can ignore what it does < 1325506989 131172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325507024 903519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where do you handle that for loops? I do believe GLSL allows different loops to take a different number of iterations < 1325507038 26795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that is < 1325507045 391383 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325507045 724093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same loop on different processing elements < 1325507054 765488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you just abstain the last few times < 1325507058 649155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it'd have to cap it to the maximum number of iterations < 1325507068 335313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1325507079 126268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, all sane GPU programming would make a loop have the same number of iterations for the entire weave < 1325507090 68720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325507097 989825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure what you mean by weave here < 1325507112 874860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a technical GPU term < 1325507116 410311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is half-weave < 1325507121 898574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean though? < 1325507127 63260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a half-weave is the number of actual commands that run simultaneously on one processing element < 1325507130 782796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325507137 230290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a weave is the number of commands that /effectively/ run simultaneously < 1325507140 935359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325507144 538950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a 1-cycle pipelining delay < 1325507181 729401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could do something TOTALLY CRAZY < 1325507193 766653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the rule is that weaves give you perfect simultaneity, and that you need to synchronize things like memory accesses within a half-weave to get the best results < 1325507199 510204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make v and ^ for logical conjunction/disjunction < 1325507202 216149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1325507215 62080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but these details seems to be hidden from you when you are writing GLSL? < 1325507215 402796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, use Unicode < 1325507220 608656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, indeed < 1325507224 745465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLSL is rather higher level than OpenCL < 1325507226 334981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't type Unicode quickly. :P < 1325507230 497910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1325507238 122819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I want to avoid opencl then? < 1325507248 374419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that stuff sounds annoying < 1325507275 135523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just noticed "avoid if when at all possible" seemed to work pretty well for glsl < 1325507293 15406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it depends on what you're writing the code /for/ < 1325507302 233979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write vertex and fragment shaders, glsl is a pretty good choice < 1325507309 501131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also does anyone actually use the geometry shader? < 1325507315 631091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to perform well at all < 1325507322 657761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think using Haskell's list monad will make the logic programming stuff much easier. < 1325507332 173566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write bitcoin mining code, you're probably better off with opencl < 1325507338 71124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1325507338 737990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure; they're a comparatively new thing < 1325507348 478902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely up-to-date on what they actually do < 1325507377 784509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and if you want to use the GPU to accelerate image manipulation? I know hugin uses GLSL for it, but is it actually the best choice? < 1325507403 526016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but I can't type Unicode quickly. :P <-- I can. Try M-x set-input-method RET TeX RET < 1325507411 853179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is awesome < 1325507429 481573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I don't know TeX though? :P < 1325507429 814771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, I'm not sure < 1325507435 208946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly depends on what manipulation you're doing < 1325507436 269691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you need to learn it < 1325507453 357457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :main advantage of something like opencl is that you could make sure that memory was being loaded in an optimal way < 1325507454 197691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well in the case of hugin, mapping flat images into whatever shape it needs to be for merging in a panorama < 1325507459 814555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use it for the actual merging < 1325507465 145592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the bending of the input images < 1325507482 675297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you might want to use the texture units there < 1325507496 339775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get interpolation when there wasn't a 1:1 map for the pixels (the usual case) < 1325507510 99328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you access the texture units from opencl? < 1325507636 479102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's called "constant memory" < 1325507652 729339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but can you get the interpolation then? < 1325507674 403624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure; my guess is it'd involve a nonstandard but nonetheless common extension < 1325507678 702764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325507871 710481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, now I see why they say Haskell's type system is like a mini-Prolog. < 1325507971 119271 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BC89.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508005 576237 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508005 742770 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325508005 907067 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508074 959616 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325508109 825756 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325508339 716371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw does opencl have built in noise functions? < 1325508352 588284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, glsl does but most GPUs just return 0 on them < 1325508357 633003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have too much built in stuff < 1325508358 131721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes them effectively useless < 1325508373 305055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those languages which is bare-bones and expects people to write libraries for it < 1325508399 453734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with most I mean all but one card series which I believe is nowdays discontinued < 1325508411 958446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some 3dfx thingy iirc) < 1325508509 317988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence < 1325508511 731745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see < 1325508528 613586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes this different from implication over the conjunction of every element in the set... < 1325508578 45553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, GLSL kind of reminds me of NQC. NQC is a C-like language for the Lego Mindstorms standard firmware. It had lots of useful domain-specific functions and not much else. < 1325508581 421909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like why does it get its own name, basically. < 1325508843 696506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let entails :: [Bool] -> Bool -> Bool; entails ss s = not (and ss && not s) in entails [2 < 4, 2 > 0] (2 == 3) < 1325508844 696193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1325508973 44367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let entails :: [Bool] -> Bool -> Bool; entails ss s = not (and ss) || s in entails [2 < 4, 2 > 0] (2 == 2) < 1325508974 43654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1325508976 67711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1325509065 478728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :De Morgan's laws to the rescue. < 1325509095 332913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what a strange texture format: floating point, 9 bits of precision, shared exponent. GL_RGB9_E5 < 1325509107 974924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 5 bits of exponent I think? < 1325509125 637660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three 9s are 27, plus 5 is 32 < 1325509128 877691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325509131 916973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it packs neatly < 1325509134 275282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still it is a pretty strange format < 1325509183 690748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also GL_R11F_G11F_B10F < 1325509188 22023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those floats lack sign bits < 1325509196 896228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the blue one has less precision < 1325509197 896749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325509214 863100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it'd sum up to 32. < 1325509228 236325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would you need negative numbers in a texture? < 1325509239 15208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325509255 533521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still it is a strange format with less precision in blue < 1325509268 270191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are a bunch of asymmetrical pixel formats like that < 1325509273 603733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325509274 439628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite a common 556 one, for instance < 1325509281 578856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325509281 744955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's based on what the eyes are best at distinguishing < 1325509288 69503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was 5-6-5 with 6 on green, most commonly. < 1325509301 387757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in opengl as far as I can find < 1325509312 23314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure what order it's in, but 6 on green is entirely believable < 1325509318 789026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is 3-3-2 (integer) for example < 1325509334 203402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :normalized integer even < 1325509336 926224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth would a 2-bit float be like anyway? < 1325509338 93507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that is < 1325509359 534420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even sillier, a 1-bit float < 1325509365 406426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325509484 25233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old OpenGL glTexImage2D man page I have here lists GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5 for the external format. < 1325509513 969488 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325509536 383466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the 4_4_4_4 all-four-bit RGBA, and the 5551 "I guess we can spare a single bit for an alpha channel" formats. < 1325509541 89207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the 10_10_10_2. < 1325509569 900442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mostly looking at floating point formats < 1325509589 868057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure I can find all of those apart from 565 < 1325509617 205133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does 5551 have 128 shades of colour, and 128 shades of transparent? < 1325509621 78131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a little weird < 1325509647 68398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, you could define transparent white as actual transparent < 1325509647 940298 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :just two shades of transparent? < 1325509658 647632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a fixed arbitrary value for the alpha as the other value < 1325509671 573764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 128? 5+5+5 is 15 bits. < 1325509674 475305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: it's not Either Transparent (Word5,Word5,Word5) < 1325509681 645682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's (Word5,Word5,Word5,Boolean) < 1325509683 312988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: err, right < 1325509689 393425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32768 < 1325509738 186950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your list is probably for the internal color formats, which might not have a 565 one. < 1325509767 753110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it probably is, I'm looking on the opengl wiki < 1325509772 847096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt texture formats < 1325509779 927497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :image formats even < 1325509793 885155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does Prolog only allow horn clauses.. < 1325509801 164420 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? I know three word5 and a boolean but what does the boolean mean? You use the first three to store the color and boolean to determine two levels of transparency? < 1325509819 491337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5 + 5 + 5 + 1, right? < 1325509821 703145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 bit is a boolean < 1325509835 608983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that once you've set the alpha channel to transparent, you still have 15 bits of color < 1325509843 483690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, iirc they are easy to compute? < 1325509850 508597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1325509853 350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're just wasting, because different shades of totally transparent are visually indistinguishable < 1325509856 118256 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but why have 15 bits of color? < 1325509866 606179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, like always possible to find an answer to < 1325509867 606665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: so if it's not transparent, then you can have colors < 1325509875 253963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, unlike some other forms < 1325509875 920781 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what's bothering me as well < 1325509878 586318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 32769 useful possibilities out of 65536 here < 1325509878 752494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all iirc < 1325509882 954807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Retaining color values even in fully transparent regions might still make sense; it's not like it's rendered as-is always. < 1325509887 67053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suggesting that perhaps the format should do something with the other 32767 < 1325509892 187697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the bit means that it's completely transparent then the color doesn't matter that much < 1325509900 424285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, indeed, and many graphics packages have an option to do just that < 1325509931 453141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you might want to use it for something else. It is not like the pipeline is fixed < 1325509958 806870 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about to store first some bitmap (literally map of booleans) that determine transparency and then store ONLY visible pixels, that is ,the transparent ones will be skipped. If you want to save space < 1325509959 139995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're using it for something else, why are you putting an RGBA meaning on it anyway? < 1325509969 999638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: that'd be hell on a GPU's memory model < 1325509975 395371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a compression format, not an in-memory graphics format < 1325509989 844181 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, I didn't know you were talking about in-memory < 1325510005 446073 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of popped in the middle of discussion x3 < 1325510020 842830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have those weirdo in-memory compressed texture formats too. < 1325510036 506263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :S3TC and whatever. < 1325510039 5156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325510075 9508 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, though the one I mentioned can't be easily accessed, in order to find a pixel by its x and y position, you would have to scan the bit-alpha map first < 1325510076 861310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, if you're using it for something else, why are you putting an RGBA meaning on it anyway? <-- because that isn't what you do, those are just names assigned to the specific channels < 1325510087 756844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could just call them xyzw or 0123 < 1325510159 865135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used textures for other stuff than images. Like a height map that I then used in the geometry shader. < 1325510173 540475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, indeed, that's the point < 1325510186 215083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not convinced that splitting into 5+5+5+1 format is useful for nonimages < 1325510187 381397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... though I understand the feeling. I was designing an opcode and I needed to encode 5 directions, but I had to use 3 bits for that and I still have 3 variations undefined... and it keeps bothering me and I keep thinking of how can I use them |3 < 1325510187 880511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it ended up in the red channel < 1325510197 374121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325510235 179207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, just draw a whatever-those-diagrams were called. < 1325510243 741556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you calculate the gates by hand < 1325510249 593326 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnagaugh maps? < 1325510251 962975 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1325510252 497565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1325510254 501915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those < 1325510259 215691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my esolang will work with any kind of boolean statement since there's no logical implication involved (i.e. nothing like Prolog's :- ) < 1325510260 663607 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's something different. < 1325510264 496518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, you *do* get a RGB555 image plus a mask bitmap in the same "thing". You could use it for the "can fly through" mask for a cave-flying game. < 1325510278 180624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, well you could work out what sort of opcode encoding would give you the least number of gates :D < 1325510280 930663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :red/green/blue/collidable? I suppose that makes sense < 1325510288 265344 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about assigning the bits meanings < 1325510292 602324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about that myself, and decided that collidable often needs more than one bit < 1325510302 658681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1325510306 203572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implications are state transitions, rather than logical statements. < 1325510332 411986 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the variations, if I have 3 bits, to store 5 states and other 3 are undefined < 1325510336 165624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, indeed, but I mean you should check which assignment of the bits give the simplest logic < 1325510357 416793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to determine what happens on collision < 1325510359 961520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at least one cave-flyer had a strictly black-and-white mask bitmap, albeit stored in a separate file. (Though some I recall having more complicated formats, for things that can explode/be set on fire/whatever.) < 1325510364 846462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, game over :P < 1325510366 212768 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic is simple, I mean, decoding it < 1325510392 533708 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a simple straightforward way < 1325510394 367382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I'm used to games with collisions having multiple sorts of collisions < 1325510398 906500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, come on, if you ever want to implement it in TTL logic and wire wrapping you could save yourself a lot of work by making the logic required simple :P < 1325510404 411710 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325510407 951396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in platformers, often you take damage hitting enemies from the sides, but not from above < 1325510430 584164 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing it on FPGA < 1325510433 94557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure you would store that in the image format anyway < 1325510444 435451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, well sure, but what if you want to do it old school in the future? < 1325510452 353511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The RGB10_A2 format gives you four types. < 1325510467 244741 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I already saved myself a lot of work < 1325510470 922180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325510490 403783 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the way it's designed, I can use exactly same decoding on these 5 states as with another form of encoding, which uses 30 variations < 1325510503 346315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, you just use two layers of n-input NANDs < 1325510508 220918 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can use same logic to decode both. < 1325510518 916079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to efficiently implement any truth table with TTL logic and wire-wrapping < 1325510523 913549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325510527 952863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiently in terms of time < 1325510540 166622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be inefficient in terms of logic size in some cases < 1325510556 448837 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much of a truth table, it basically corresponds to numeric base 5 < 1325510570 803564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you have like 4 in-signals and you can arrange the values so that they are groupable in a kaurnaugh diagram you save yourself some wires < 1325510581 383343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as gates < 1325510593 20767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the problem's small enough to K-map it < 1325510601 781340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're probably not going to run out of gates anyway < 1325510606 121825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325510616 99375 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if I would do it old school way though. It would be too large anyway < 1325510619 766229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this Frooxius person? < 1325510621 346862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that S3TC/DXT1 format is the fanciest. Each 4x4 pixel block is stored as two RGB565 (there's the 565 again...) color values, color0 and color1, followed by a 32-bit integer holding two bits per pixel in the block; each pixel is either color0 (bits 00), color1 (bits 01), (2*color0+color1)/3 (bits 10, color0 > color1), (color0+color1)/2 (bits 10, color0 <= color1), (color0 + 2*color1)/3 (bits 11, color0 > color1) or black (bits 11, color0 <= color1). < 1325510634 813444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but even for larger problems you could still save some gates. < 1325510643 943037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it might be more work figuring out how < 1325510671 765671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's Karnaugh, not "Karnagaugh" or "kaurnaugh". < 1325510676 107336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325510702 379693 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't remember how to spell it in English < 1325510729 403163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the guy's name, you don't spell it any differently in any other language. < 1325510765 667346 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :We spell some names a bit differently in our language < 1325510777 173261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How impolite. < 1325510784 470710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like everyone has to call SOMs "Kohonen maps" no matter how stupid they think it sounds. < 1325510785 303688 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325510806 46976 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not THAT different, I don't really remember how to spell his name < 1325510827 408579 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember all the names < 1325510831 360774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the names of the ancient greeks tend to be spelled differently in different languages though < 1325510853 375617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess there's some variation allowed when the alphabet differs. < 1325510891 727121 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus our language has modifiers. If I were to spell your name in some conjunction in my language, it would be "fizziovy mapy" < 1325510898 198353 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's due to the grammar. < 1325510913 955938 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most nouns are modified and have many variants < 1325510923 422737 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it would sound... REALLY weird < 1325510944 888158 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually only the ending portion of the name is modified though < 1325510975 593285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is that? < 1325510978 861092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish is a very inflectional language too, and admittedly we add a suffix to Karnaugh; it's just that generally I think everyone's name should be spelled the way they want it. < 1325511003 169771 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Czech < 1325511005 94702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325511021 909064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly the name isn't Finnish-enough looking, so we have to call it "Karnaugh'n kartta" with an apostrophe. < 1325511041 73930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish we don't generally modify names beyond the "belongs to"-suffix. Because plural and definite form suffixes doesn't make sense on names < 1325511048 115597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess plural might < 1325511051 375551 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Karnaugh has only suffix, but sometimes last one or two letters are modified as well < 1325511061 542973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for family names < 1325511087 818709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got 15 noun cases, and many of them make sense for names. < 1325511093 187614 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... I just don't remember how exactly to spell his name, that's why I added "or something like that" < 1325511093 520744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strangely enough it is called Karnaughdiagram in Swedish, not Karnaughkarta < 1325511115 309881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not a "map"-map all geography-like. < 1325511125 357733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325511129 364837 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called map in my language < 1325511140 524966 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "mapa" < 1325511150 678396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called map in Finnish too, but "diagram" makes equally much, if not more, sense. < 1325511153 577260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, it's bank-time. -> < 1325511153 742592 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that one doesnt mean just geography map < 1325511276 915014 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511363 258439 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511377 446379 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry, broadband connection (EDGE) x3 < 1325511390 19993 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bad signal here < 1325511411 728603 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511411 931052 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Book_from_the_Sky < 1325511428 402023 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511440 305626 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaarg, bad connection again < 1325511451 259638 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding the 5551 though... what if the last bit activates some transparency mode, where the first 15 bits get reallocated like 4443 - RGBA, that is 4 bits for every color channel (so the color resolution lowers a bit) and 8 levels of transparency < 1325511540 404514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget my link.. awesome topic.. i need to scroll up on this one i think < 1325511544 150747 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :color formats < 1325511577 744876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds slightly complicated, though certainly possible. Also, 9 levels when you count the non-transparent case. < 1325511580 199025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/104/0/8/nyan_cat_timelapse_by_kingaby-d3dygfa.jpg < 1325511589 414854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they could do some huffman encoding of images kind of < 1325511610 627292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. determining the probability rates of color neighbourhoods < 1325511610 833934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jpeg uses these fancy things called wavelets. < 1325511616 377995 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaay DA, did you make that kallisti? < 1325511624 44121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: not at all < 1325511650 126491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to call DCT a wavelet transformation... < 1325511703 268501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that the JPEG2000 nobody uses does actual wavelets, though. < 1325511704 850724 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like .,.. if middle pixel is FF0000, then topleft pixel is a% likely to be 000000, b% likely to be 000001, c% likely to be 000002... hsahss% likely to be FFFFFF < 1325511723 625967 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that reminds me of this joke I made http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/338/5/f/eight_gigabytes_of_ram_by_frooxius-d4i5698.png :3 < 1325511743 771711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh yes that's the one I was thinking of. < 1325511744 938657 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511760 333678 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511768 583397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh again < 1325511771 114687 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that reminds me of this joke I made http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/338/5/f/eight_gigabytes_of_ram_by_frooxius-d4i5698.png :3 < 1325511791 961464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that got through the first time < 1325511808 367729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offhand I wouldn't be surprised if you could mathematically speaking describe DCT as a wavelet transformation with the right sort of really boring basis functions. < 1325511811 946093 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, sorry, I lost connection immediately after sending that, so I wasn't sure < 1325511814 780506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the basis of these %'s, you could map the bits of the neighbouring pixels somehow < 1325511850 646769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- sort of dumb, sort of smart, both at same time < 1325511858 868912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL doesn't do Amiga's HAM formats. :/ < 1325511877 147795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, back out to the snow. -> < 1325511878 481539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what were those? < 1325511880 893117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325511897 936152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold And Modify, the pixels depend on neighbors. < 1325511916 214236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get more colors but it's difficult to do sharp edges. < 1325511941 360891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ahh.. so i had a nice idea but its done long ago eh? < 1325511947 536907 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually here's link to the DA page, not direct to image http://frooxius.deviantart.com/art/Eight-Gigabytes-Of-RAM-272339180 Dunno why I linked that < 1325511975 413223 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything has already been done :P < 1325511981 460476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :criuudhwudihewuidhwe uidhweuidh ewuidhewuihduiew dhwuih diuhw diuhw iudh iuwehdiuhweiudhweuihdiuwhduiwdwe < 1325512005 416768 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log fuck fuck fuck < 1325512034 84454 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-02-11.txt:01:49:58: fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck < 1325512068 661218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay I accidentally invented FRP. < 1325512081 985967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog wtf < 1325512100 519910 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-19.txt:04:38:00: WTF! < 1325512100 685514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh cool < 1325512104 432942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog wtf < 1325512118 730112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-05-01.txt:00:19:54: but WTF does the group have that effect on me? < 1325512133 305795 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.. simonrc is popular in these logs < 1325512178 533657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously if you search for swearwords you're going to get people who swear more < 1325512190 41623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog motherfucker < 1325512194 627137 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325512197 456313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders about the chance of no results < 1325512199 119819 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-18.txt:20:41:14: Jeb did it, motherfucker. < 1325512208 276698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, there was at least one < 1325512233 290320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog motherfucker < 1325512240 410162 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-22.txt:23:54:58: http://programming-motherfucker.com/ < 1325512273 86076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog Feather < 1325512275 962006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I went /there/ < 1325512280 695458 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-08-23.txt:17:41:11: ais523, feather? < 1325512292 99138 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bubbles < 1325512309 702891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325512322 136454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well.. yes i feel proud that i just described HAM (in my poorly worded kind of way).. it is a testament to my comprehension of pixels < 1325512348 358156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, esoteric idea: image format that's neither raster nor vector < 1325512360 649873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what other possibilities are there? < 1325512362 483908 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325512390 697401 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some language to describe the image algorithmically? < 1325512392 696173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs. < 1325512405 340994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: hmm, I was wondering along those lines too < 1325512407 216076 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry had to laugh < 1325512420 967907 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325512426 812767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as an insult < 1325512429 17223 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325512433 355075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, just because someone had to < 1325512438 430496 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325512475 303828 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my way of approaching this kind of problem would be to look for the generalization < 1325512485 129029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make another child from it < 1325512498 339777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1325512499 385199 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325512501 384795 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this connection >.< < 1325512505 387881 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some language to describe the image algorithmically? < 1325512508 96058 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they actually used something like that for one (or possibly more) game that they squeezed to 100 kB or so. They actually stored all textures and such algorithmically < 1325512521 780911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, vector and raster would be, children of some parent < 1325512552 913714 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1325512569 660942 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the game took like... ages to load, because it needed to render all the stuff |3 < 1325512573 869789 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok ok.. heres one idea i had once < 1325512589 179622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 8x4 monochrome display... < 1325512600 214710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… raster images are a bit like an imperative description of what to draw to the screen < 1325512601 716562 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the video memory consists of a single 32 bit integer < 1325512602 754546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is, say, RLE images < 1325512618 64058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more complicated compression schemes are more like an OO description < 1325512638 592573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vector images are a bit like a declarative description, if you consider "what to draw to the screen" to be a rasterisation < 1325512649 749822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm, what else is left? < 1325512669 27351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. its too hot and im too hungry for this lovely topic wuaahhh < 1325512695 177181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need constraint-based images < 1325512728 60203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am primarily interested in graphics < 1325512734 639984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tried to figure some stuff out before < 1325512741 265848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one idea i had once was.... < 1325512743 359136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1325512774 555038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an image which has only 1 colour, can be stretched and shrunken without affecting it at all < 1325512843 812908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not true for raster images, surely? < 1325512854 774301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's 100x100, and you stretch it to 150x150 < 1325512858 523480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't roundtrip it back to100x100 < 1325512861 107206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to 100x100 < 1325512866 283021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean solid color, I see < 1325512869 994763 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1325512937 134781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i applied myself to thinking about graphics in the past but never really got far < 1325512945 667070 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was one idea i realized < 1325513002 947927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's still not an excuse for a modern os to ship without a ssh client or with a telnet client < 1325513013 74707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ for all the people who just wouldn't believe me when I told them I knew an ssh fanboy < 1325513029 862559 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but 1 solid color is not much of an image < 1325513044 314060 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325513063 566170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the spur of the moment i just descrbed a way that a set of images can be optimized for hold and modify without having heard of hold and modify before.. so i feel pretty accomplished from that < 1325513098 629639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think i have heard of it.. < 1325513106 108704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an old edition of computer and video games < 1325513117 649260 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the article just said the prorgammers used some clever tricks < 1325513138 143193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its an unconcious uhm < 1325513147 155205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unconcious plagiarism < 1325513183 69334 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh i sure ramble < 1325513283 831732 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325513315 285813 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost signal again >.< < 1325513504 17322 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... i saved a document by accident.. and lost all the images inside it < 1325513506 223890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy vey < 1325513645 650458 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kkrieger <- game you're thinking of (probably) < 1325513696 564330 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats myself around the head with imaginary baseball bat < 1325513802 221069 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Textures are stored via their creation history instead of a per-pixel basis" .. interesting < 1325513821 516793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: maybe i was not actually thinking of ham at all < 1325513824 183711 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an interesting optimization task anyway < 1325513832 759944 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ham what < 1325513836 275390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some scifi game in an old magazine < 1325513836 940877 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a ham sandwich! < 1325513837 775064 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325513850 675430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said that the programmers used some tricks to get more colours < 1325513875 761749 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, i was referring to frooxius's comment < 1325513881 816360 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkreiger is probably the game he was talking about < 1325513889 813696 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was? < 1325513899 386393 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius> I think they actually used something like that for one (or possibly more) game that they squeezed to 100 kB or so. They actually stored all textures and such algorithmically < 1325513912 959357 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :demoscene dudes are pretty cool :) < 1325513938 162469 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a file went bad in open office < 1325513941 661215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read recently that there were some people developing an esolang-like language for golfing demos < 1325513946 599683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did repair but repair didnt go well < 1325513969 617408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i tried to save it.. i did so without thinking and overwrote it < 1325513980 622458 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my graviton < 1325513989 538941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter.. i retained all the text, but i had some silly images < 1325513998 453883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the images gave this file character < 1325514011 406024 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection... O.e I got no messages for a few minutes and then BAM! a few dozen messages at once x3 < 1325514042 20326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got three copies? < 1325514045 25654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put a lot of work into my little documents.. i need to be more careful < 1325514046 62178 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, interesting < 1325514060 977534 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall name of that 100 kB game, though I can look it up < 1325514068 767799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i played the 96kb game < 1325514072 733783 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: kkreiger < 1325514077 725530 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514081 264111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good stuff < 1325514081 428522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325514088 142760 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think that's the one < 1325514098 815391 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it was an entry in a demo party < 1325514107 818518 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the most notable one people seem to have heard of :) < 1325514130 823185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, you're the one with a cyborg account, right? < 1325514134 276140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkrieger* < 1325514141 522021 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1325514141 686885 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325514142 354745 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325514142 521403 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /´\  >\ /|      |     /´\ /|   |\     |     /<   >\  |\ < 1325514142 685614 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69             (_|¯'\                   /'\ < 1325514142 685809 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                  |_)               (_| |_) < 1325514156 731710 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like artistic games a lot though. I try to make my own games as an art form < 1325514190 345466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game i am thinking of turns out to be Universe on Amiga < 1325514204 783688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once read they used some kind of tricks to get more colours < 1325514264 699097 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyborg account? < 1325514267 57719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Universe was based on a modified version of Enchantia's game engine (the most notable addition was the in-game text and dialogue system and the increase in the Amiga color palette)" < 1325514275 3139 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, i'm not sure what you're talking about :) < 1325514277 376191 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, half bot < 1325514281 747549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half not bot < 1325514284 368338 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1325514290 136427 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"account" doesn't really apply on irc < 1325514295 221916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nah, i just idle a bunch :) < 1325514301 382784 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nick < 1325514309 592051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you do the celebrate thing < 1325514317 972889 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1325514326 58495 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it appears that somebody stored a convenience macro \o/ < 1325514326 391400 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                          | < 1325514326 555882 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                         /< < 1325514333 897091 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it draws legs on anything though < 1325514343 518135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : \m/ \m/ < 1325514343 850738 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69   `\o/´69 < 1325514344 185869 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     | < 1325514344 350198 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69    /´¯|_) < 1325514344 350374 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  (_| < 1325514369 784803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the leading 9s? < 1325514388 273015 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading ... 9s? < 1325514399 61300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 `\o/´9 < 1325514399 393525 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69               | < 1325514399 726218 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              /| < 1325514410 304746 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your irc client is rendering color codes weirdly < 1325514420 350510 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's... mine? < 1325514426 59900 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ^k69^o < 1325514441 42176 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no nines nor any colours < 1325514451 11460 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how it should be ;) < 1325514463 407293 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no colors at all < 1325514467 744444 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not colored < 1325514470 617631 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reset directly after them < 1325514480 936231 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hidden tags so i don't interpret lines multiple times or when pasted etc. < 1325514481 435737 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1325514494 662139 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :long as it was copied in color anyway < 1325514503 915631 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of bot-loop protection < 1325514517 565013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1325514523 853390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the possible smilies starts with ` < 1325514531 941457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dancers < 1325514539 782755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if not for that leading screwup, you could get a loop with hackego < 1325514550 421155 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514550 918264 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325514551 82686 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514566 797664 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wrote this script some time before i ever came here, but you have the idea ;) < 1325514577 9719 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a problem so i fixed it, i don't even remember what the problem was now < 1325514585 710916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have only applied to me! < 1325514602 862928 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i do some funky things with my own client < 1325514618 192204 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example... < 1325514622 904551 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example... < 1325514765 111705 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go, byeeee < 1325514779 748355 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325514779 913755 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-062-193.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325514780 786939 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325514783 858910 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325515088 565656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i have pondered about graphics is that things like graphics plots never resemble anything < 1325515147 742757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it is not common for a formula to represent a bitmap < 1325515200 556880 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bitmaps don't frequently come in the form of elegant mathematical expressions ;) < 1325515205 968326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read about fractal compression? < 1325515220 991317 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most lineart is discontinuous < 1325515288 857197 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the idea comes as, just use the brute force of the computer which is available :P < 1325515294 127798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I seem to remember there is a way to represent any 1-bit bitmap as an equation. < 1325515324 271731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula < 1325515325 104906 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325515327 102861 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 0 < 1325515327 604138 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325515337 533769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, no I mean as in each pixel is either black or white < 1325515338 201206 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you mean 1 as in the bit depth i'm sure < 1325515339 534707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not grey < 1325515354 556852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the link < 1325515355 56617 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd believe it, but is that representation significantly shorter or simpler? < 1325515367 673893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, see the link and decide for yourself < 1325515382 44385 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, awesome < 1325515383 293161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it clunky however < 1325515384 359456 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mathematical quine < 1325515402 543442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, thing is, you can select some numbers in there to draw any image < 1325515413 904008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cheating, it's taking an encoding of itself as input < 1325515490 211797 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1325515500 610014 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look to be very efficient as far as compression goes < 1325515510 874150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is correct < 1325515522 688542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I was simply replying to " well, bitmaps don't frequently come in the form of elegant mathematical expressions ;)" < 1325515535 335666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea is pretty elegant :P < 1325515549 790101 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headache being induced < 1325515550 288611 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-014-213.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325515550 622144 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the fact that it requires a multiple-line constant :P < 1325515552 457896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway: procedural textures < 1325515566 687725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, bah, details < 1325515604 138728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, procedural textures tend to be more or less simple mathematical formulas < 1325515628 981197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite often there is some perlin noise in there though, which might not be so simple < 1325515649 173435 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, but itidus was commenting on prevalence < 1325515659 453278 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such techniques might be prevalent in the demoscene but not really outside of it < 1325515685 324462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, eh, I used procedural textures quite a bit. Minecraft water is by default a procedural texture afaik < 1325515714 598822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how common it is in other contexts < 1325516506 677907 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516552 89666 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516781 37094 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516798 227644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .kkrieger-making tool, .werkkzeug, has this artist-friendly(ish) GUI for playing around with expressions and parameters. < 1325516817 98778 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325516842 148936 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some bizarre reason, I keep thinking that "Euler" begins with J < 1325516844 481336 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325516848 924627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head "Euler" < 1325516849 757325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'E' < 1325516854 932513 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't! < 1325516874 706828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And POV-Ray "frontends" (and Blender, and probably other modelers) tend to include procedural-texture-generation UIs where you can spwengle with layers. < 1325516882 158156 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you grossly mispronounce it, Ngevd? :| < 1325516897 631266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr, not so it sounds like it begins with a J < 1325516906 42293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeuler, the jocular Euler. < 1325516927 429744 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only when I think "what's the initials of Project Euler" do I make this error < 1325516928 634878 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rough English approximation of how it's pronounced is "oilah" < 1325516948 23261 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516948 227050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You grossly mispronounce it with a silent J, perhaps. < 1325516948 901664 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern standard German that is < 1325516952 979673 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325516961 59561 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different in Swiss German < 1325517008 895317 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325517031 942033 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDud < 1325517035 692446 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325517056 21571 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDuck < 1325517060 852968 :MDuck!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325517065 353924 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325517073 83744 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1325517078 247552 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1325517085 97687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dud duck. Is that like a duck which doesn't quack? < 1325517121 328628 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC keeps switching nick/alternate nick and then keeping it the wrong way around. < 1325517151 599641 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC? On MY freenode? < 1325517169 269686 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens is: < 1325517175 48282 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are USING your alt nick < 1325517182 337361 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you change to a nick that's not your main nick < 1325517187 418447 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it modifies the setting < 1325517193 919315 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use /tnick to avoid this < 1325517198 689963 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is mIRC a blasphemy here? < 1325517206 379231 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes a problem when you get guested or something < 1325517208 546054 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that < 1325517210 955275 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc changes your main nick to Guest < 1325517224 171195 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you go to change to your main nick, you instead change the wrong one < 1325517230 795806 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or s omething like that anyway. you should get the picture :) < 1325517246 136723 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can alias tnick and maybe reset nick and anick when you get disconnected < 1325517495 557860 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit metal! >:3 http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Heosphoros/Embered_Recollections/Eleven_Acausal_Fire < 1325517514 789263 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found something awesome yesterday < 1325517538 746768 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sotb.se/ < 1325517603 590676 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't sound bad :3 < 1325517610 171851 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1325517632 7729 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vocals are a little .. well, not bluegrass but it doesn't really matter < 1325517659 88870 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of them i also found iron horse, and they seem to have a bunch of cover albums of bands like metallica or black sabbath etc. < 1325517663 4317 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even linkin park lol < 1325517675 146251 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone listen to Machinae Supremacy? < 1325517717 114766 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i've heard of them, but i can't place it < 1325517733 560433 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SID Metal as they call it < 1325517744 437220 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chiptunes + Metal < 1325517789 755983 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found the bluegrass band 'cause i was looking for piano covers < 1325517794 563318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i downloaded a bunch of dragonball z game music recently < 1325517795 897986 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some good piano renditions of various songs on youtube < 1325517843 83699 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually used their music in a short film I did, named "School as a computer game" :3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAAIPezSwVg < 1325517848 756268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325517865 220194 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, this is an interesting combination < 1325517872 470047 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1325517900 797485 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325517961 885422 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :machinae supremacy < 1325518030 133825 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they're great! :3 They're even fine with me using their music in that video (they're actually even glad for fan works x3 ) < 1325518074 647256 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKQ048-O4vs#t=1m2s <- i want to find a whole album with songs like the intro riff here < 1325518144 767830 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325518146 768916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA oh wow < 1325518147 436717 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8cLJcm_RoU < 1325518150 696190 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally didn't know that < 1325518292 724704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machinae Supremacy has played once or twice (or thrice; can't quite remember) at Assembly. < 1325518325 604852 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though recently, they seem to get more metal-like and less chiptune-y :-( < 1325518349 228964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Press Play On Tape did it last year; they're also quite 8-bitty, though not at all metal. < 1325518366 234633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess officially they spell it PRESS PLAY ON TAPE. < 1325518396 168326 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The songs I used in the short film are actually the ones that are available for free on their website < 1325518612 5386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see they've released (via Pirate Bay, no less) their Assembly 2011 concert video. < 1325518787 1336 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: that is really a very cool video < 1325518796 844582 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks O.O < 1325520597 445042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting youtube channel < 1325520645 726155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of funny, that, your understanding of 8bit must be so mysterious < 1325520664 488697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by mysterious? Oo < 1325520700 435364 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was born in 82, and my first computer was a NES.. im not sure which year that was exactly < 1325520736 998861 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. 89 :-? < 1325520758 605990 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Are you asking if I'm 89? < 1325520762 25326 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you're not all that young < 1325520766 27885 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 91 < 1325520769 870040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i got my NES in 89 < 1325520775 582422 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh x3 < 1325520792 55075 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm October 1991 < 1325520803 689461 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure how i figured that out actually < 1325520825 101078 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what you mean by the mysterious though < 1325520839 313231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, wait, you're *29*‽ < 1325520845 317739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup................... < 1325520856 728002 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're younger than you look < 1325520862 55323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older, rather < 1325520866 857773 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that we had Sega Master System when I was 3 or 4 and later Sega Genesis < 1325520880 644950 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first console was a Playstation 2... < 1325520883 526266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel young < 1325520888 460186 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :no computer though really as in, PC and such < 1325520905 95221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh maybe ngevd feels the mystery about 8bit then < 1325520922 49286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We never had consoles, I just rented a Genesis (well, Mega Drive hereabouts) from the video store every now and then. :/ < 1325520941 837448 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think it was named Mega Drive here as well < 1325520945 96069 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of mystery? < 1325520959 52338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then.. the option was.. 1) watch standard def tv 2) watch a vhs tape 3) play 8bit console < 1325520975 792989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you were lucky you had some old computer < 1325521018 800369 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325521024 603499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so slot cars and remote control cars were a lot more exciting back then < 1325521050 736769 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I know that even computer felt more exciting and mysterious for me when I was little. < 1325521056 774646 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's what you mean? The feeling of mystery? < 1325521074 745285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way to know what he means: that's the mystery. < 1325521074 909831 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like how the Romans built the Pantheon < 1325521081 577324 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. for someone who wasnt raised on 8bit games then they have to wonder what exactly is it like to play 8 bit games < 1325521104 165273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I play Super Mario Bros on a NES emulator from time to time... < 1325521109 117098 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- in a time when they are being sold for a lot of money :P < 1325521115 486961 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play old games in emulators nowadays too :3 < 1325521125 243666 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though dad has NES as well for a while < 1325521143 377333 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly it was Sega Master system. Which is 8 bit actually < 1325521152 838842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like... there was no 3d, there was no polygons, there was no street fighter < 1325521163 423349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a friend who's got a Betamax player < 1325521174 662593 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I played some 8-bit games in my childhood, but not really that much, because later dad sold the console < 1325521200 525197 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno exactly < 1325521229 224273 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember... I couldn't even read much, so the help of M602 (something like Midnight Commander) that was on the computer seemed like a huge mysterious book that would take me ages to read |3 Now I can read it like in 5-10 minutes < 1325521272 982166 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I didn't get computer until I was 12 < 1325521302 955738 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: anyway, your youtube is quite interesting... you're very creative < 1325521307 764799 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before then, we had nothing, because parents divorced < 1325521316 791848 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks O.O < 1325521410 146744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Prolog system on our 286; now *that* was the weirdest. It even had some example programs that implemented an "ask about geography" thing. < 1325521413 445913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that housepets animation, did you work out the animation skeleton or was it done automatically? < 1325521424 348847 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1325521436 266837 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you move him around like a puppet < 1325521470 855022 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no it was done manually, I positioned the parts with code < 1325521498 655051 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just silly experiment, it's not even much good |3 < 1325521503 982659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did you make the whole system? < 1325521548 768918 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I quickly scripted it, I basically wrote a code that positions the images on the screen based on input angles and X, Y positions and then created a simple keyframe system, that calculates the frames between two keyframes < 1325521567 61250 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you didn't cheat with flash or anything right? :-D < 1325521575 205492 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not made with flash < 1325521579 830741 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i understand < 1325521583 785465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you did indeed do all the work < 1325521599 344991 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had to be sure < 1325521603 590568 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's very simple anyway, it's just an array of angles and positions and all it does it just pick one current one, find the next one and interpolate between them < 1325521628 256100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325521632 723697 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to work on a similar idea myself recently... < 1325521643 766134 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt get very far exactly < 1325521659 391424 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of got an interpolated arm moving < 1325521661 737575 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if the keyframe[0] is for frame 0 and position 40 and keyframe[1] is for frame 2 and position 20, then it basically first calculates ratio of both < 1325521668 201849 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1325521684 330005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one limit i had was this arm thing i made could only bend at one joint < 1325521700 692561 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keyframe[n+1].frame-keyframe[n].frame) < 1325521708 612631 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the size difference < 1325521715 656285 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr I mean. < 1325521730 767651 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the span of frames and the ratio is calculated like < 1325521742 96750 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was about the time i gave up when i started to think about ways that it could work out the necessary joint bends to reach the target < 1325521767 224518 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :r = (current_frame-keyframe[n].frame) / (keyframe[n+1].frame-keyframe[n].frame) < 1325521774 366231 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can calculate the position as < 1325521806 606086 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual_x = (keyframe[n].x * (1.0-r) + keyframe[n].x * (r)) < 1325521808 605608 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use the same system to animate tiggy? < 1325521813 648374 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325521823 545944 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not keyframed < 1325521849 690936 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus you can first apply some function on the r < 1325521869 937597 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah don't worry im not all that smart.. i won't remember any of this later < 1325521878 635402 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SinFunc(r), which outputs also 0.0 to 1.0, but assumes that input r is linear and output is sine < 1325521894 385990 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the animation is nice and smooth - has smooth start and smooth end < 1325521963 862093 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SinFunc(r) can be defined like { return Sin(r*(pi/2)); } < 1325521969 76415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325521973 653277 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott! < 1325521982 361098 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooo elliott! < 1325521984 239926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just "helliott" in short. < 1325522005 693098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325522005 862498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325522024 896585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joor so popular. < 1325522045 906229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :three of those messages were me < 1325522048 875817 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiggy has instead several animation states defined, like when he's walking, running, jumping and such. Each one of these has some input variables that are used to calculate the positions of the body parts - they are positioned by code as well < 1325522055 944993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, self-popular, then. < 1325522086 526978 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it's walking speed and or surrounding's - distance to the floor or ceiling, or vertical speed and such. < 1325522098 342682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders who Frooxius is < 1325522115 730211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: i am sort of the dumb guy here.. i am clueless about esoteric programming.. < 1325522124 343069 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's vaguely new < 1325522132 825873 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just joined today ^^' < 1325522172 173217 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it does smooth transitions between these animations, using a similar way as between two keyframes (calculate the ratio first and then do a sum of the first state *(1.0-r) and second state *r < 1325522187 914218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Frooxius is new, ontopic, and seems to understand what the channel's like < 1325522197 243382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look at the mess when we welcomed em < 1325522251 622533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sad, then, that the Elliott Experience(tm) will likely scar em for life. < 1325522267 366639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is into gamedev.. yay < 1325522268 614463 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus smooth transitions can happen during various times. For example, when he's walking, then he's walking at specific speed and then there's a small range of the velocity, where the walking animation is transitioned to the running one, based on the speed actually (the speed in the small range is used as the ratio for the smooth transition) < 1325522297 782960 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and much better at it than i am < 1325522333 795241 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters < 1325522352 32234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only Homo sapiens were intelligently designed, then I could curse the designer of the sinus. < 1325522358 171897 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, he walks at 10.0 speed and I can have code that calculates the ratio like r = limit( ( speed-10.0)/4.0, 0.0, 1.0) < 1325522371 220000 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the transition range is 10.0 to 14.0 < 1325522384 929488 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :limit is limit(val, min, max) limits the value to certain range < 1325522419 385320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this game an esoteric game? < 1325522432 521970 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, not really ^^' < 1325522441 62037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shall have to fix that, then. < 1325522446 287397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I have some weird ones in plans < 1325522452 986174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a weird topology, apply to game space immediately. < 1325522465 908499 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well experimental games at least < 1325522466 621421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend the real projective plane. < 1325522478 210752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's actually quite a good one for games, I think < 1325522530 354815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the two-step plan to making an esoteric game: 1. Check if your game is one of my game plans. 2. If it's not, make it that and implement it. (You may need to learn a few languages.) < 1325522537 163612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the ONLY. WAY. < 1325522550 651976 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuuuu < 1325522551 365962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha, as if you'd ever use any language other than Haskell. < 1325522556 953697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts running in triangles < 1325522564 513871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's at least one language! < 1325522570 334129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325522570 500355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the Cabal file... < 1325522571 213617 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or condone the use of anything that wasn't either Haskell or Haskell, but moreso. < 1325522579 419612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is the chosen one.. in 2012 < 1325522581 781909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's two languages. < 1325522585 815914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: oh god what. < 1325522602 939695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mysterious mix of intelligence and creativity < 1325522631 759754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1325522645 173885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Congratulations, you're The Prophet(tm). < 1325522648 186888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, implement elliottcraft (ais523 version) for me < 1325522649 21976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell us about how the world will end. < 1325522651 912149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, i'ts named after you! < 1325522653 832899 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is likely he will understand esolangs < 1325522657 484187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1325522658 371249 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDO? Oo < 1325522664 906373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1325522800 143678 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the force is strong with him i tell you < 1325522811 335497 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe it will end with Kernel Panic. Or a BSOD. < 1325522830 295172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a mysterious mix of intelligence and creativity < 1325522834 593330 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever-Apple-Mac-OS-X-does-when-it-goes-bonkers < 1325522837 107426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this intelligence relative to itidus21? < 1325522845 810445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1325522886 4643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by my comment :-D < 1325522955 803755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SEEN: someone self-censoring 'screwed'. < 1325522988 274342 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :s*****d? < 1325522999 49365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse. < 1325523005 346752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Scr*wed'. < 1325523038 749148 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's totally Nitrloglibimostri*vilious < 1325523065 727256 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay b*wdl*r*z*t**n < 1325523071 376069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: OS X just kernel panics too. < 1325523075 515252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :B****fuck < 1325523138 479937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't an OS X kernel panic an image of a power button, plus instructions to reboot your computer in five different languages? < 1325523151 611088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a Mac's going to screen-of-death, at least it's going to be a /stylish/ screen of death < 1325523164 102643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Linux just locks up and flashes the num lock and caps lock keyboard LEDs < 1325523181 573350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't think I need to explain what Windows does, it's so well known) < 1325523224 146659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :********k. < 1325523236 302225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask what DOS does on kernel panic < 1325523241 948543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely convinced it even has a kernel < 1325523252 353587 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : B****fuck <-- just realised the joke... < 1325523264 174534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's an old joke < 1325523271 593231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wow, that was almost as slow as Vorpal < 1325523280 243417 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Like display an advanced and detailed 3D realtime render of rotating apple with a little diamond worm with a speech bubble saying "According to 9 out of 10 fashion experts, it's very positive for your image if your OS crashes once in a while. Thus, with sole intentions of helping your image, we just crashed your OS. Your Apple" < 1325523304 692661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The C64 ROM hasn't got a kernel, but it *has* got a KERNAL. < 1325523305 26443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, most OSes don't react sanely to a GPU crash < 1325523326 838482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the BBC Micro just had a bunch of subroutines at the top of memory that did stuff like writing to the screen < 1325523336 80567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with standard names like oswrch < 1325523340 551573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and osrdch < 1325523358 35927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which made asm programs hard to read, as I mentally pronounced both words as "ostrich") < 1325523453 594446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit why is google's search bar under like 10 nested divs and tables. < 1325523498 336270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not much more than what the KERNAL has, except I think it's got the standard IRQ, NMI and RESET handlers too. < 1325523515 955395 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325523517 861158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even also at the top of the memory. < 1325523555 744403 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my BytePusher version of Hunt the Wumpus is tricky... < 1325523741 706071 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables? < 1325523755 583932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables? < 1325523769 295693 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :TABLES? Oo < 1325523980 660172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also FreeDOS has a component called KERNEL; it contains the KERNEL.SYS file which implements the DOS system calls. I suppose that corresponds to MSDOS.SYS, and possibly also IO.SYS, in MS-DOS. < 1325523997 320363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, seems about right < 1325524027 849590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and osrdch < 1325524037 511908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make the processor stick its head in the sand < 1325524602 597460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got a "GURU MEDITATION" error out of some website the other day. < 1325524684 458998 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notebook came with a copy of FreeDOS < 1325524688 981502 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put it into the trash < 1325524736 131081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: it's a legal requirement that Microsoft invented, that computers have to be sold with an OS < 1325524741 102516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, they managed to force it through) < 1325524754 634950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS is typically used as a very cheap method of complying with that requirement < 1325524756 857313 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric ::L < 1325524761 981010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by computer companies who'd otherwise be selling bare boxes < 1325524786 657725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the easiest way to convert a 256x256 bitmap to a Bytepusher codepage? < 1325524791 139684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: you did put the copy of FreeDOS in the trash, not the notebook, right? < 1325524791 974286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver's BSOD "hack" contains error messages from: Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT, MS-DOS, AmigaDOS 1.3, Linux, SCO UNIX, BSD UNIX, HPUX, Solaris, Tru64, VMS, HVX/GCOS6, IBM OS/390, OS/2, MacOS (MacsBug, Bomb, Sad Mac, and OSX), Atari ST, Apple ][+, and NCD X Terminals. < 1325524939 155752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: If you just need the bytes, and it's a one-off thing, Gimp has a "raw image data" file-writing mode which I guess should suffice. < 1325525074 412454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm not terribly sure if it includes the palette if you write an indexed-color image. < 1325525141 908568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least a grayscale image is written as a sequence of bytes in the "obvious" manner. < 1325525221 345319 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I decline to comment < 1325525241 602746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you aren't elliott! < 1325525263 882858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? < 1325525291 590748 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, sorry. < 1325525298 488254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1325525299 640087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Finland? < 1325525315 708287 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I live there? < 1325525322 100393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a *very* good question. < 1325525325 459802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone? < 1325525328 355240 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a Czech hostname, both of those are rather unlikely. < 1325525363 660674 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two people in this channel in Hexham and god knows how many in Finland < 1325525373 838980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but does anyone else know how many? < 1325525383 634877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm sure a place as cosmopolitan as Hexham has a fairly-sized "Czechtown". < 1325525386 97356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1325525453 817805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's at least five by my last count. < 1325525464 146680 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325525476 101169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I the only esolanger in Birmingham? < 1325525488 577006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... a tehwa, D eewiant, f izzie, i neiros, m tve, and Z warddijk at the very least. < 1325525497 332461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at least six. And that's before we get to the bots. < 1325525504 381861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, there's only one Finnish bot.) < 1325525511 962310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and that's just people here now, so it's at least seven. < 1325525520 750612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think "m tve" did? But you didn't count "o klopol". < 1325525560 978805 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham, second largest city in the UK, has one esolanger, Hexham, a town with about 1% the population, has two < 1325525599 683091 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two in Sweden? < 1325525633 306802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did what? I assumed he's a Finn because you know him. :p < 1325525636 880392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Aren't all of "V orpal", "o lsner" and "F ireFly" from Sweden? Though I might misremember. < 1325525650 213280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and a few more too. < 1325525651 641932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe. < 1325525654 553421 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any Canadian esolangers? < 1325525661 820857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is Canadian < 1325525663 470336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I know em, and I had a vague feeling e was from Germany. But I'm certainly not certain. < 1325525667 517281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Zwaarddijk a Swedish-speaking Finn or vice versa? < 1325525668 794795 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a loril seems to be in Finland < 1325525674 331433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's the first one. < 1325525678 154569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you meant some other. < 1325525681 965518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you were just counting separately. < 1325525691 421545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, fair enough. Maybe I'm thinking of some other Finn you know. :p < 1325525707 20361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I conclude my official tally with the result: "Too many". < 1325525709 125452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I like cpressy wrote a script in Perl that literally generates line noise. < 1325525713 767189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+how < 1325525787 803275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: don't you mean random values? < 1325525788 914355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *at least two. < 1325525794 609187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, cpressey used to live in Canadia. < 1325525799 254856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to be /literal/ line noise it'd need to be trying to get data from a noisy connection < 1325525814 554190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading noise instead < 1325525825 958435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen genuine line noise before now < 1325525826 435131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://catseye.tc/projects/noise/script/noise randomly generated in a certain way, yes. < 1325525843 663698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we linked up a couple of serial ports by physically sticking copper wires into the relevant sockets < 1325525848 837943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got knocked < 1325525860 515132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise is a tiny utility whose purpose is to simulate line noise — those random bursts of static that occur when communicating with a non-error-correcting modem over an unreliable phone line. Start it up in the background and keep working at your shell prompt — or, keep trying to! < 1325525873 454665 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to get some of my friends into esoteric programming < 1325525883 72508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you have friends that program? < 1325525883 391471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It could be a physical-simulation sort of line noise. They simulate acoustic instruments and so on, why not line noise. < 1325525898 404125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325525913 372202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I actually wrote one of those, come to think of it < 1325525915 160864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, two, one's more of an acquaitance, due to him being a bit of a dick, and the other doesn't live in Hexham < 1325525930 773456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing a Morse code decoder I'd written that was designed to work on noisy input < 1325525938 660722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that's about as many people I know as well. I guess a few more if you count people I've met. < 1325525941 721396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't count those. < 1325525967 612746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: noise cancellation is fun. < 1325525969 910182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to leave for a while < 1325525972 618150 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325526244 539568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl State s a < 1325526245 17229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> (a, s) < 1325526862 223997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself using Facebook less and less. < 1325527025 236781 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still use fb? < 1325527057 12931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325527062 790315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people I talk to use it < 1325527063 107319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1325527085 935582 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will once the new terrible profile change takes place. < 1325527099 605004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I was fine with every other change < 1325527101 204274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until this one. < 1325527110 766716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you have reason to think one's coming other than the fact that they happen often? < 1325527117 340165 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: why? < 1325527144 474836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stop < 1325527145 586321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you zzo < 1325527162 476793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you seriously have to ask whether any given person is zzo or not? < 1325527177 38862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you elliott? < 1325527185 257756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were, do you think I'd admit it? < 1325527188 906875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: are you monqy? < 1325527193 240681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes < 1325527195 665673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: are you glogbot < 1325527203 900794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clogbot < 1325527291 390272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how was your weak squishy human sleep? < 1325527300 755505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been awake since last we spakened < 1325527314 258618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaconed, like bacon. < 1325527349 357632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :selenium.common.exceptions.StaleElementReferenceException: Message: u'Element not found in the cache' < 1325527352 419647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1325528132 738853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selenium sucks, anyway. < 1325528160 188186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well yes. < 1325528178 685493 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tellurium is better in every way. < 1325528207 605179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using chr, ord, and -32 is not the right way of doing this. Use toUpper." "@augustss: It's good enough for ASCII." < 1325528215 895460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO FUCK YOU NOTHING IS "GOOD ENOUGH FOR ASCII" JESUS CHRIST < 1325528286 120494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even toUpper isn't correct without some knowledge of the language < 1325528309 460016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is someone trying to find excuses /not/ to use toUpper? < 1325528320 674587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead use... that? < 1325528321 888571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325528339 405232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's going to basically fuck up anything that wasn't lowercase. < 1325528340 619332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the input known to be made out of lowercase letters? < 1325528346 825869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Haskell? < 1325528356 775428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, based on function names. < 1325528390 135148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chr and ord are commonly used function names for those operations < 1325528390 487738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just link rather than tediously explaining everything: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8700564/haskell-converting-small-chars-to-capital < 1325528395 807964 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325528400 240576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy keeps opening trivial homework questions without even trying < 1325528412 240388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people keep answering them by giving a complete solution >_< < 1325528425 415065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chr . subtract 32 . ord is not only incorrect but requires more effort than toUpper. < 1325528454 906062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, are there any rules against answer homework questions? < 1325528459 820502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but he hadn't imported Data.Char so he was getting "not in scope" < 1325528463 886396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much easier to use a broken solution < 1325528475 531225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you are meant to try and give help for homework questions, not the solution outright < 1325528484 148104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they are tagged "homework", so there is no excuse) < 1325528563 137557 :nooga!~nooga@egv122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325528598 530166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm how /does/ toUpper work with Unicode characters. < 1325528625 31432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /should/ be locale-dependent < 1325528631 11308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there like, a big table? < 1325528635 310307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for what definition of should < 1325528643 942623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not believe the unicode standard talks about locales < 1325528697 668604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it depends on the language < 1325528701 348631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turkish is the normal example < 1325528713 382535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it more likely talks about locales than languages < 1325528781 115528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am dead sure that (a) the Unicode standard defines various case transformations and (b) they do not depend on any sort of external state. < 1325528806 653778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott dead. < 1325528811 944738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the external state would be used to determine which transformation was used, then, presumably < 1325528812 114399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325528862 591308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do I say "you're wrong" in a way that doesn't make your response "" < 1325528889 979743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a link would be helpful < 1325528909 813613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is impossible to correctly determine what the capital version of "i" is without knowing the language, anyway, is the point < 1325528921 879899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ < 1325528935 140168 :nooga!~nooga@egv122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325528950 434391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch04.pdf < 1325528954 612939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm if that's the case then toUpper is not referentially transparent. < 1325528979 747370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325528983 673061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1325529018 73628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've just stopped paying attention to YouTube's featured videos altogether, even if they're relevant. < 1325529066 681956 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325529422 602472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“If you are a programmer working in 2006 and you don’t know the basics of characters, character sets, encodings, and Unicode, and I catch you, I’m going to punish you by making you peel onions for six months in a submarine.” < 1325529422 795535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :—joel spolsky < 1325529422 795765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joel on Software < 1325529423 668608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually < 1325529425 680067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the unicode website < 1325529437 236844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode.org/announcements/quotations.html#spolsky < 1325529529 743746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: page 7: " Also contains context-dependent mappings, with flags to distin- guish them from the normal mappings, as well as some locale-dependent mappings." < 1325529536 863373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it'd be there if I looked hard enough < 1325529566 222462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not taking it out of context either, although feel free to check yourself) < 1325529596 53972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmmmm how /does/ toUpper work with Unicode characters. it /should/ be locale-dependent < 1325529599 945963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, your quote is irrelevant to that < 1325529629 543495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my quote is from the database that contains the default uppercasing algorithms for unicode < 1325529663 332560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also says that there's a legacy best mappings database that isn't locale-dependent < 1325529676 11858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should only be used by legacy implementations < 1325529697 888996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's at least partly to do with mapping one lowercase character to multiple uppercase characters < 1325529702 773660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, i cba to actually read the spec, but i'm still going to maintain my belief that i'm pretty sure you're wrong :) < 1325529730 971744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow properties sure are bad in Python. < 1325529814 733854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm no it's a little bit better than it used to be. < 1325529903 685906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the actual case of lowercase i, http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0000.pdf says "Turkish and Azerbaijani use 0130 İ for uppercase" < 1325529951 778513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds like just a comment, not a definition < 1325529959 876494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1325529965 667194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the case mapping charts at the moment < 1325530101 685098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I think it's possible that we're both right < 1325530113 480941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that there are pure legacy versions that map characters to characters < 1325530122 108065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more contexty versions that map strings to strings, and require locale info < 1325530130 257983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only case mapping charts I could find were for the legacy version < 1325530138 707866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl Writer w a < 1325530139 221981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, w) < 1325530146 420776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mtl"? < 1325530147 118912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1325530151 426310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad transformer library < 1325530155 390874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1325530169 539869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a < 1325530169 716223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `unmtl' failed with: `WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. a (A, ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO)))' < 1325530172 493558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh :D < 1325530177 609145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) [Int] a < 1325530177 963860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Int] (a, ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) < 1325530181 208782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325530181 724536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325530186 438628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT [Int] (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a < 1325530186 960997 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> [Int] -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s))) -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s)) < 1325530190 922210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like so ^ < 1325530196 452102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mtl (a -> [Int] -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s))) -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s)) < 1325530196 627859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: ft map msg pl unmtl url < 1325530201 407739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't exist though :P < 1325530230 522015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so it's working out the type that actually represents the type of a monad action obtained by stringing together a bunch of monad transformers < 1325530247 903875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just expanding the definitions recursively < 1325530252 729001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, indeed < 1325530266 782147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they're actually data types, not type synonyms, so the two types are not actually equivalent :) but it's what they /mean/ < 1325530311 223349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're isomorphic if you ignore the fact that a data declaration adds an extra bottom. :> < 1325530320 385295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many of those are newtypes, right? < 1325530321 90797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: they're newtypes. < 1325530323 768586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325530403 852916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt "-- contains additional information about the casing of Unicode characters. (For compatibility, the UnicodeData.txt file only contains case mappings for < 1325530417 887978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters where they are 1-1, and independent of context and language." < 1325530427 861616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0130; 0069 0307; 0130; 0130; # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE < 1325530436 766565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks for finding it for me < 1325530502 564246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm tempted to make semicolons an infix operator for statement blocks... < 1325530509 188158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk me out of it. < 1325530526 874901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: don't work for spammers < 1325530529 258327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, talk you out of /that/ < 1325530566 532329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the language-specific (and context-specific; sometimes the mapping depends on surrounding characters, like for sigma and... I guess that's about it) ones. < 1325530574 94091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I think I ruined my Monoid instance < 1325530584 407808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it might not be a problem though < 1325530596 4037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ICA uses infix semicolon as sequencing, it works fine < 1325530616 592973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is precedence < 1325530620 830323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :low < 1325530626 637897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no precedence that doesn't look weird in some combination or other < 1325530626 814533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the precedence is low. problem solved. < 1325530628 743970 :iconmaster[1]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325530635 341778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lower than if? while? lambda? < 1325530652 99024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325530658 459620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are functions with () notation < 1325530658 811718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pair formation? < 1325530667 746127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have that. < 1325530679 333260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a,b;c,d is a bit of a weird case < 1325530688 228236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because clearly a,(b;c),d is the only way it'd type < 1325530722 731693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to worry about that because I don't treat , as an operator. < 1325530741 607469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically if , is an infix operator it's lower precedence than any operator. < 1325530756 327969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's defined as part of the function syntax. < 1325530807 963148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm yes I like that. I'll do that. < 1325530908 541934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually top-level statements require no line terminator, but I suspect if I don't add one it will make the errors look like crap. < 1325531147 336189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325531394 205639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think using Haskell's list monad will make the logic programming stuff much easier. <-- note that iirc there exists a monad-logic package which is more flexible than lists < 1325531395 98221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan welcome to ~AMERICA~ < 1325531411 966434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks suspiciously at elliott  < 1325531428 770195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that scripted? < 1325531506 447773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325531519 960345 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~AMERICA~ < 1325531581 941662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I assume it also handles non-determinism? < 1325531603 51266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what i recall is it has this function: < 1325531603 808276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325531608 903198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>-) < 1325531609 990771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325531648 342117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like >>- except reorders things to ensure all combinations are tried < 1325531682 777681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:13:01: oerjan: I assume it also handles non-determinism? < 1325531687 597405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's a logic monad without nondeterminsm < 1325531688 307248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1325531688 841586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1325531691 496085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>- \x -> (,) x <$> [1..] < 1325531692 447969 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,1),(2,1),(1,2),(3,1),(1,3),(2,2),(1,4),(4,1),(1,5),(2,3),(1,6),(3,2),(1... < 1325531725 174572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is like >>= < 1325531749 197429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i think there are more efficient instances than [] < 1325531752 460842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325531815 551475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's a LogicT monad transformer < 1325531824 177876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, are monad instances uniquely determined? i suspect not, but can't think of a counterexample :) < 1325531824 755809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t LogicT < 1325531825 815144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (forall r. (a -> m r -> m r) -> m r -> m r) -> LogicT m a < 1325531827 631507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Functor is < 1325531856 774035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh i wondered about that too, whether an Applicative can extend to two different Monads < 1325531898 315477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be weird to have Functor and Monad uniquely determined but not Applicative < 1325531900 699560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative obviously isn't < 1325531908 83564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well < 1325531911 433430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ZipList is a monad they aren't < 1325531919 548989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1325531920 833234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if ZipList isn't a monad, there might well be only one Monad for a given Appliactive < 1325531922 255354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative < 1325531932 375152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325531934 932014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList is a Monad ignoring bottom >:) < 1325531938 503287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different question :P < 1325531943 770500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what i was originally asking was < 1325531948 240990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are monad instances uniquely determined for a data type < 1325531948 596142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1325531949 521042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not _entirely_ sure what it is with bottom < 1325531951 97988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are monad instances uniquely determined for an applicative instanc < 1325531951 698252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1325531958 547430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some data types have multiple Applicatives so they're not equivalent < 1325531965 897647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i do not believe you have proved that < 1325531970 903208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so a simpler question < 1325531980 457773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is simpler? < 1325531981 518402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a type which has two Monad instances. < 1325531986 11236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325531996 713459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there is an obvious one < 1325532008 859499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :State can be reconsidered as Reader + Writer < 1325532014 790196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325532017 467146 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :HURR_DURR < 1325532019 636897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has a Monoid constraint though < 1325532025 122997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make the StateList monad, though < 1325532031 773867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it be Reader + Writer as well as State < 1325532039 584743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but that's a constraint on the parameter, not the monadic value < 1325532039 762558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool < 1325532045 143843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T a = List [a] | Maybe (Maybe a) -- Nobel prize plz < 1325532049 429614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the applicatives the same? < 1325532079 393374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess that's not two different instances < 1325532080 809561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one still. < 1325532115 136641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no they're not the same, the applicative of State still threads the state < 1325532129 607501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA2 get get < 1325532131 463518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325532136 705537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA2 (,) get get < 1325532141 557387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1325532161 304413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA3 (,,) get (modify (+1)) get < 1325532203 53552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325532244 880573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could always do something stupid like... < 1325532265 823334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make >>= only apply the function to the first list element if there is one. < 1325532266 716951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course backwards state monad has the same underlying type as the forward one, and the reversed applicative i think < 1325532273 200045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a Maybe monad instance for [a] < 1325532298 294054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t listToMaybe < 1325532299 396725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> Maybe a < 1325532316 807954 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325532374 344851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Functor is special i think, because it's so weaved into parametricity; the free theorem for g :: Functor f => a -> f a is g . k = fmap k . g < 1325532386 926266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325532578 311886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : data T a = List [a] | Maybe (Maybe a) -- Nobel prize plz <-- i'm not convinced that's either an Applicative or a Monad < 1325532615 752291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _are_ laws to fulfil, after all. < 1325532670 503664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and that's basically what i was trying to get at with your CoContra stuff from yesterday - i expect something similar applies < 1325532689 23807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to what? < 1325532707 557302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to g . k = fmap k . g < 1325532734 466447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1325532742 298825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspect < 1325532883 576050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NAG NAG NAG < 1325532911 124361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log zjoin.*scanl1.*diag < 1325532918 952157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has taken a liking to randomly freezing on saves for some reason. < 1325532922 530634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1325532935 573655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-17.txt:05:00:42: @let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] < 1325533202 199001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah okay, now I see why they say Haskell's type system is like a mini-Prolog. <-- without backtracking though, afaik < 1325533214 971689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no proper constraint solving < 1325533437 257498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it does at least allow reordering constraints by taking the once it can solve immediately first < 1325533441 803543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones < 1325533498 880570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor !!!!!!! < 1325533499 416134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325533583 535125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ban Gregor, he's obstructing my construction of ch2 < 1325533592 165171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obstructing my construction so induction has no suction < 1325533920 716436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw i think the word you're looking for is "woven" :P < 1325534139 589159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite your request, it's quite for the best, not to be too sure it should be the cure to ban the man < 1325534223 844823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325534225 851485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325534231 523737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur the one who complaininged abotu the log formats < 1325534233 29143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ings < 1325534328 290435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see, this obligates me to institute a cruel and unusual regime < 1325534341 181803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325534348 53572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you've already done that part < 1325534354 479397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325534358 265694 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325534391 565129 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooooo! :3 < 1325534551 802328 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Syntax error: Unknown instruction" Yeah, but WHICH ONE?! Who implemented this? Oh wait, I did |3 I seriously annoy myself sometimes *giggles in a somewhat silly way* < 1325534594 51374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325534631 958268 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325534637 559804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is |3 meant to mean < 1325534653 803101 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting Ron Paul is a serious politician < 1325534654 645181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is terrified of what he may find out, but asks out of curiosity. < 1325534669 746247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Don't worry, he isn't. < 1325534703 495171 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :|3 is an emoticon, like a >.< face or -_- but with cat-face < 1325534706 104177 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325534725 994833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: I don't believe you. < 1325534737 579910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly like a pipe on the 3rd file descriptor or something. < 1325534749 69124 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it can have multiple meanings < 1325534752 572388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius......................... < 1325534760 708610 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Oo < 1325534771 590012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like a robot cat < 1325534783 874670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is the only way that could conceivably look like a cat < 1325534792 936182 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that too probably < 1325534855 751585 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like that guy in Star Trek TNG, with the weird sunglassesd < 1325534887 58627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi < 1325534897 210821 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1325534910 628183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cat-geordi < 1325534912 172414 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really watch Star Trek enough to have ever seen a full episode < 1325534922 179714 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geordicat < 1325535780 447962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odocat. < 1325535785 714666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a very smug cat.) < 1325535930 419257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula <-- that's not actually a quine, since the actual bitmap is given in k to be supplied separately < 1325535989 785260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone made a better one somewhere that was more like an actual quine < 1325536012 283741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Vorpal in absentia for being absent -----### < 1325536019 124621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swat Gregor for being absent pls < 1325536027 965256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that thing is STUPID < 1325536039 160321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Gregor for being absent -----### < 1325536170 85239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : For some bizarre reason, I keep thinking that "Euler" begins with J <-- presumably then you are pronouncing it with an english eu, not a german one < 1325536181 90014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a german one sounds more like oi in oil < 1325536192 330378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its oiler but ewler sounds so much better < 1325536204 994300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't :P < 1325536216 95118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't make this mistake with, e.g., euthanasia < 1325536499 656314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you missed a couple spams < 1325536532 913236 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536533 270869 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325536533 447179 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536598 860316 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325536606 305237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: seems Keymaker got them < 1325536639 635862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325536642 716234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i know its oiler but ewler sounds so much better < 1325536645 756349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me wrong. < 1325536663 300505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not as bad as people who pronounce Gauss as 'goss'. < 1325536669 778127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse < 1325536802 409224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/De-carlfriedrichgauss.ogg < 1325536807 433381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should say his full name like this always < 1325536828 56550 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536874 50712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's < 1325536875 42868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gouse < 1325536878 584895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say gorse < 1325536879 301907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentally < 1325536882 699316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse and ewler < 1325536887 168834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a gauss in the house < 1325536890 611174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325536893 509528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't actually say ewler < 1325536894 265386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say < 1325536896 620922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youwler < 1325536899 342971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf gorse why < 1325536902 663371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you're british. < 1325536904 311537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1325536912 991138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :au is like < 1325536913 347666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1325536914 584461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse < 1325536918 602838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you say saw with an r don't you. < 1325536920 292299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1325536949 43497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you rationalize that to make any sense at all? < 1325536961 814120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... what is the thought process behind adding random r's to words that don't have r's < 1325536964 354985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just records him saying these things instead of trying to explain them < 1325536965 789109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325536966 502336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1325536974 506354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents < 1325536990 174400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325537094 826928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really explain why < 1325537097 366080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw has an r in it < 1325537099 156324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's no r < 1325537100 626272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it. < 1325537112 539830 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think that's the intrusive r < 1325537137 953527 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have an r in it. People with a non-rhotic accent just think it sounds the same as its nearest equivalent with an r < 1325537198 140029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325537227 281591 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325537233 971138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, microphone on this doesn't work. < 1325537249 584799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get Ngevd to do it. < 1325537256 739177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science dictates that your accents are identical. < 1325537261 846604 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325537262 204643 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325537262 381304 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325537291 144167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what is its nearest equivalent? < 1325537295 434215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sore < 1325537300 369247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1325537322 506190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw and sore sound the same; so, amusingly, do pawn and porn. < 1325537338 92959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a non-rhotic accent pronounce that as... saw without an r? I don't think I understand why a non-rhotic accent would add an r there. < 1325537371 17779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: People saying "pawn shop" will never not make me think "HOW DOES DECENT SOCIETY ALLOW OUR ACCENTS TO DO THIS TO US". < 1325537390 255689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Protip: Thinking of it as "adding an r" in places won't help < 1325537393 911573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know that pawn and porn sounded the same. < 1325537408 741739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but... that's what is happening. < 1325537417 316461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want me to unthink what is happening? < 1325537433 506561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, just talk like Americans: problem solved. < 1325537445 860572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry, Mary, Marry < 1325537450 674694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just switch accents depending on which of porn or pawn you're saying < 1325537485 618366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, *sigh*. < 1325537501 625919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rs extend and... round off vowels. < 1325537508 775484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically "non-rhotic" means "add r's to things." non-intuitively. got it. < 1325537516 810268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nope. < 1325537520 562290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really are an idiot. < 1325537521 826758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents < 1325537551 835556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that rs before consonants aren't pronounced, and instead apply the aforementioned transform to the preceding vowel. < 1325537552 12067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I read that. < 1325537572 355410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result of this is that 'or' sounds like 'aw'. < 1325537624 298021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really explain anything though. so "aw" becomes "awr"? < 1325537626 444122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R < 1325537650 753862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi. < 1325537696 209971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you twat. < 1325537701 120694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'aw' stays as 'aw'. < 1325537714 441706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 'or' now sounds like 'aw', 'or' and 'aw' sound the same. < 1325537719 829319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculously simple. < 1325537722 41282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1325537722 577637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "awr" < 1325537728 378265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an r < 1325537731 693626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325537738 749994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ you really are an idiot. < 1325537742 743830 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of non-rhotic is that there's no r's < 1325537747 15255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They both sound like 'aw'. < 1325537749 428456 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rho is Greek for "r" < 1325537750 456703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, um no? < 1325537756 46801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ^ < 1325537765 492399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'r' is still present if not followed by a consonant. < 1325537794 405823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeating what non-rhotic means is not going to help explain anything. < 1325537839 409101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I have explained precisely what the deal is with 'sore' and 'saw', and you have apparently not listened to a word I said. < 1325537848 859066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you see the problem with explaining things to kallisti? < 1325537891 370685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R explains it perfectly < 1325537907 961184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *MWAHAHAHA* < 1325537945 289463 :HURR_DURR!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1325537994 24236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically in some non-rhotic accents an /r/ is added between two consecutive vowel sounds and other weird places. < 1325538015 715884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just... how it works. it can not be explained by the removal of /r/ sounds because that makes /no fucking sense/ < 1325538041 806500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right! kallisti has figured it out! < 1325538062 470965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm calling up Jimbo Wales and telling him his Wikipedia is wrong; some guy on the internet knows it makes no fucking sense. < 1325538076 546602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be explained by the removal of /r/ sounds in some positions, followed by analogous insertion of r in the opposite positions < 1325538079 945445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wikipedia doesn't disagree with what I just said? < 1325538085 501801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1325538108 371172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you know, what makes you an idiot isn't any particular stupidity; it's your complete inability to admit that you may not understand something. < 1325538116 136168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325538116 314971 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538136 480189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you don't quite see how something fits together, you decide it's probably wrong, and then make it a point of pride to prove this. < 1325538140 932131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538143 969413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1325538145 224236 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :792) I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538168 598128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew anything about rhotic accents, and now I still know nothing about them. *happy* < 1325538194 361971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: think of it as /r/ gradually changing from a phoneme into a non-phonemic way of separating adjacent vowels < 1325538216 619360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes, *you do*. < 1325538236 122895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the change being/stopping at different stages in different dialects. < 1325538244 525951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd just have a little humility from time to time and accept that you don't know everything, you might actually know a lot more than you do. < 1325538261 905399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know everything, obviously. < 1325538292 813721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But instead you pretend that you do, or that you understand things just as well as the person explaining it, and they get frustrated and you get steadily more annoying as time moves on. < 1325538365 635893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: depends on the subject. for example, I'm fully aware of what a rhotic consonant is, and when it's being placed in weirds it normally doesn't go in. < 1325538399 123691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh? Then why did you need to read that WP article? < 1325538406 892923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you knew everything it contained beforehand? < 1325538429 921073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey stop leaping to conclusions about other people's behavior! oh wait... < 1325538448 261899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything no. I clicked it to learn more details. But I had a general idea of what a non-rhotic accent was beforehand, but was still confused by the sudden insertion of rhotic consonants. < 1325538490 115498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that " I bet you say saw with an r don't you. asshole how can you rationalize that to make any sense at all? like... what is the thought process behind adding random r's to words that don't have r's" does not really sound like someone with an understanding of rhoticity, without actually getting involved in this trainwreck through cunning use of /me. < 1325538576 695951 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-cromulent should be a word < 1325538588 941150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and yet you approached it with an air of smug pedantry, not confusion. < 1325538591 665307 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite sure what it means though < 1325538609 589112 :iconmaster[1]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Ayup, this is a quit message. < 1325538630 147306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in conclusion leaping | This channel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538633 581669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm generally not confused when I don't know everything. ??? < 1325538643 233014 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the normal state of affairs. < 1325538648 318392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1325538653 47311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sound smug. often. < 1325538656 397820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this feeling that was a bad idea < 1325538658 800356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not everything no. I clicked it to learn more details. But I had a general idea of what a non-rhotic accent was beforehand, but was still confused by the sudden insertion of rhotic consonants. < 1325538674 231454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please, *please* try to check what you say for consistency? < 1325538717 164126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in oerjan being as passive-aggressively judgemental as he possibly can | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538720 778525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't be arsed. < 1325538751 101772 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :good world championship for oerjan, as he is (by definition?) the only contestant < 1325538793 131883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNEW IT < 1325538798 334368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good. Can you now concede the discussion? < 1325538806 597275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if there weren't jokes to deflect criticism with < 1325538813 694543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human race would be so fucked < 1325538814 587328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in passive-aggressively communicating only through /topic < 1325538831 889220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see what you're saying though. It makes sense. I can often be smug. Is that what I'm supposed to concede? then yes. < 1325538840 749687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in recursive passive aggression | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538860 286459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was expecting a different concession < 1325538867 555743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, OK, I'm sorry; I forgot that your brain is context-free. < 1325538880 707459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: depends on how much sleep I've had. :P < 1325538887 331498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not fair to argue with someone with such a condition when I have a fully-functioning long-term memory. < 1325538943 606325 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325538962 369650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325538969 166966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think perhaps I don't take a moment to consider that I don't have all the information before forming conclusions. Is this what you mean? < 1325539057 529886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a suitably flattering way of putting "I am so arrogant that I assume that things are stupid even when people who know much more about them than me tell me otherwise". < 1325539080 28049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in recursive world championships | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325539099 17362 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not passive-aggressive world championships? < 1325539099 196237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world champion | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325539112 924145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when did anything turn recursive anyway? < 1325539119 267970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we had to expand due to great demand < 1325539175 793668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, when we remembered that we're a programming channel, so recursion jokes are required. < 1325539193 53295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I... still think it's stupid. But at least understand how it happens. < 1325539195 628053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw xkcd 132 for the first time, the only guitar hero I had played was 3, which has a metallica song < 1325539211 954021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when elliott berated me for berating Phantom_Hoover for berating kallisti < 1325539228 203562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is my knight in shining armor. < 1325539231 461905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't being passive-aggressive though, i mentioned you directly by name < 1325539232 934371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :always coming to my rescue. < 1325539244 689316 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but... adding the word recursion doesn't necessarily make it a recursion joke < 1325539246 44731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah. sorry about that. < 1325539257 533027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm sorry, are you new to recursion jokes? < 1325539268 986286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i may not be entirely sure about the term < 1325539272 757699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be under the impression that they're meant to be funny, or even make sense. < 1325539312 829095 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I expect such things of jokes < 1325539324 833738 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not making sense, but being funny, I expect of them < 1325539363 733489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It makes sense, since you ignore the letter r and /r/ just becomes this thing you put between consecutive vowels. But still "non-rhotic" is a poor name for such a thing because it /adds/ rhotic consonants. The name is inherently contradictory and that's why I thought it was stupid. < 1325539363 952407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We should do induction jokes instead? < 1325539375 469114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually already my first topic change was recursive, as i certainly included myself in the reference < 1325539377 974682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you type "induction" into Google it should say "did you mean: inductio". < 1325539385 883623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductio! < 1325539387 345986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it ends up at "did you mean: base case". < 1325539404 2361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds like a Harry Potter spell. < 1325539417 789398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I:[NDUCTION]) < 1325539431 980405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do a spell to one person, and you can do a spell to someone next to them if you've already done it to them, then you can use inductio to do it to the whole world simultaneously. < 1325539437 270787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should that be (I : [N D U C T I O N]) < 1325539453 22134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is that an Inception joke (you will die if it is). < 1325539472 266127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I think it's a linked list joke. < 1325539473 378893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just made a crappy recursion joke with induction! < 1325539475 21647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's even possible. < 1325539478 242920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion jokes are meant to be recursion jokes. < 1325539479 853373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do them too! < 1325539487 528295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think a color specification for printing file, should be: CMYK + a value to use on grayscale-only printers + either black/white/normal to select what happens on pure black/white printer < 1325539509 28134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this recursion joke were funny, it would be a recursion joke, but as it isn't it's just a joke < 1325539513 814729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg I heard you like induction so we put an i in your nduction so you can pattern match while you recurse. < 1325539515 784212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, people, you need base cases! < 1325539522 834342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please op me < 1325539532 850657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all know what you have done < 1325539533 386914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who are you planning to kick/ban? < 1325539534 536117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, as it isn't it's just a recursion reference. < 1325539540 186262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why would you not just calculate the brightness of the RGB value for a grayscale printer? Hmm, I guess that doesn't always turn out perfectly. < 1325539549 205863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you, oerjan and Phantom_Hoover, but I might let you back in after a few minutes < 1325539562 466048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what answer to that question would actually get him opped. < 1325539570 629723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but it sounds as though you have basically two distinct images in one file. How would you deal with such a file in an image editor, for example? < 1325539571 344121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about a CGYRMBK printer? < 1325539584 853842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What is a CGYRMBK printer? < 1325539586 999928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure there is one, but it at least makes me curious < 1325539598 961785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a printer that uses six colors of ink, plus black as an optimisation < 1325539605 235921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people see, say, a cyan+yellow mix as green < 1325539613 200002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the exact mix is slightly different for different people's eyes < 1325539622 970805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a tetrachromat, you might not be able to do it at all < 1325539633 387666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using six channels rather than three makes sure you can control the color a lot more carefully < 1325539648 820865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's only used in really high-end printing < 1325539649 178129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just use one channel for every possible wavelength < 1325539660 543942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is finding one /ink/ for every possible wavelength < 1325539681 197399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the best answer is probably not to mention anyone by name.. < 1325539682 667510 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :black ink mixed with a chemical that induces color blindness < 1325539683 597636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; printer techonology not work well if even intended for tetrachomat and so on; but computer display might be able to make one working for many wavelengths providing very high quality display of light < 1325539719 470810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well i left you off the list just in case < 1325539752 105110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a good answer: < 1325539764 53493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose CGYRMBK would still be only high end printing though. I am not sure what happen if you want to print such a document on such a printer. Possibly you would just make up a new special command for this kind of printers < 1325539782 908295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would probably not ban very many people, but would have banned lament (or whoever he was) when he was literally just spamming a single number for pages. < 1325539789 837746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just common sense. < 1325539791 268669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was mathnerd < 1325539793 635720 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the DVI format allows you to use whatever new kind of special commands you want to make up < 1325539796 537968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if we're using one channel for each possible wavelength < 1325539802 340886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what wavelength do we use for #esoteric? < 1325539804 346892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i assume ais523 knew i meant a one-time oppage < 1325539808 34251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: octarine < 1325539812 626599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, fair enough assumption < 1325539817 264184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that in nanometres? < 1325539822 572726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i < 1325539825 487700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 567nm. < 1325539854 950101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was i as in i \in C < 1325539878 315756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I figured it eventually, although it took a few tries < 1325539915 997006 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325539921 569946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mr_schlauch < 1325539925 508292 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr_schlauch: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325539953 649066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I can't read the wololo in the hostname as anything but an Age of Empires reference < 1325539979 166544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebnc.net? that sounds secur < 1325539979 564425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1325539994 769517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the b stand for there? < 1325540018 936732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see you've tactfully disappeared from this thread of discussion. :P < 1325540021 80040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err? < 1325540030 284255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know what a VNC is, but not a BNC < 1325540037 66766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but so has mr_schlauch < 1325540042 824127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bouncer < 1325540048 375267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1325540062 421060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free bouncer -> give your irc password to random people with no reason to be nice to you :) < 1325540068 818064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes, for much the same reasons as my tactful disappearance from conversations with brick walls. < 1325540076 34787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not identified < 1325540078 579233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no password being given < 1325540086 460093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't make the idea of a free bnc any more secure < 1325540102 884425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but you'll leave the walls offended! < 1325540125 34881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they might not let me lean on them! < 1325540217 851016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was under the impression I had conceded somewhat. and the topic interests me because I do take a conscious effort to learn and grow as a person. I agree that I can be stubborn but I believe there's a bit of an attribution bias going on. < 1325540235 121062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking news Phantom_Hoover admits to wanting to lean on kallisti < 1325540239 152880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ship....... has sailed.................... < 1325540257 405549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325540260 266965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti makes conscious effort to lean and grow as a person < 1325540265 348257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a pea plant?? < 1325540269 553328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325540282 595698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mendel would be proud. < 1325540287 996458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is my godhead. < 1325540331 261429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, or maybe not attribution bias, but a lack of self-awareness in how I present myself. < 1325540371 120910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? < 1325540373 802317 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :793) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? < 1325540387 203013 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDO? Oo < 1325540390 864167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna addquote that at the time < 1325540392 698695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but got too lazy < 1325540400 139814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: terrible things < 1325540401 746375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare to be banned < 1325540404 421152 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuuuuuu < 1325540409 23720 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flails and runs in funny shapes < 1325540417 103538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that you seem to define "a conscious effort to learn and grow as a person" as "stubbornly refusing to let go of any misunderstanding when people try to explain things to me" says it all, really. < 1325540429 874343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are funny shapes < 1325540464 187266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octahedra < 1325540465 877165 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemonoid < 1325540479 747193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :triangulum bisectoids < 1325540485 927289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombidodecahedron < 1325540490 649221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual of a pentagonal antiprism < 1325540502 496104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alexander horned potatogons < 1325540506 779283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really, no. < 1325540523 718200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : alexander horned potatogons < 1325540523 896648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vigintihedra < 1325540529 990401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thanks, i know what to name my child now < 1325540546 407427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander Horned Potatogon Hird? < 1325540553 44227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the child is female? < 1325540560 197539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex is a female name. < 1325540575 700196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Alexander is not. < 1325540583 789169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be! < 1325540589 15039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexia is a female name, and a neurological condition. < 1325540609 23706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, if I ever have a daughter I will name her that and then snigger whenever I hear her name. < 1325540622 669293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File under "why Phantom_Hoover must never reproduce". < 1325540626 503407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was Alexandra? I guess Alexis could be a name too. < 1325540645 254341 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Elliott "I will name my child Azimuth" Hird. < 1325540648 718207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If they're a girl I'll just swap it around: Potatogon Horned Alexander Hird. < 1325540649 651514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Alexandria. < 1325540653 436738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP AZIMUTH IS A COOL NAME < 1325540655 126220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a city.) < 1325540655 660787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1325540658 342830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as cool as < 1325540660 663937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: o rly? :P < 1325540662 269083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1325540668 336649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, die, seriously. < 1325540669 943391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope it's the coolest < 1325540690 319448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rest assured I know Alexandria is a city because it exists in the United States as well. < 1325540694 534510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I would be oblivious. < 1325540696 352931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: im naming my kid Orly < 1325540710 176625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle name < 1325540711 327934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowai < 1325540714 303438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1325540719 434124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iw ant my child to grow up with a healthy sense of self-loathing < 1325540720 326992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and despair < 1325540736 649066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't Alexander Horned Potatogon have the same effect? < 1325540758 726780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have to worry about naming his children because he plans to not have any ever. < 1325540761 621935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this is for my second kid < 1325540773 484168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so controversial < 1325540774 845741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(insert obvious jokes, ha ha ha ) < 1325540785 819892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alexander horned potatogon orly nowai hird < 1325540794 93247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it crossed the line of terrible back into awesome < 1325540800 780789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can just sign things as -AHPON < 1325540806 181948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :ahpon < 1325540814 587898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ahpon < 1325540816 554529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahponh < 1325540822 674996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon could easily be their pseudonym as an electronic or hip hop artist. < 1325540829 104065 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alexander horned potatogon orly nowai < 1325540838 702180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHATDIDIDO? Oo <-- you got innocently involved in a driveby quoting accident < 1325540854 105705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bahahahaha nobody will guess who I am if I refer to myself by my initials!" < 1325540864 31109 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but < 1325540864 746167 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon < 1325540865 856983 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :si cool name < 1325540874 729132 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDONOW? Oo < 1325540881 954706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon: you look stupider with that name < 1325540892 90120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb --canadia 25 < 1325540896 769701 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: packed too many words into one and lost your nose < 1325540898 595721 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1325540898 775562 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree meter noncarbering obia conocon nitin aftwott diblasmil stalatickli declack chic sweel exill tadtitin gasta psychon unproposte baffice scoholistico hetteraph archille dussarct wipentit weitmen treu < 1325540904 270673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree < 1325540906 812943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :engree < 1325540910 567131 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to search for his nose < 1325540930 7764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Stramillicon Tibia Rapunda Alexander Horned Potatogon Orly Nowai? < 1325540932 507509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychon is my new internet handle < 1325540956 349050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A noncarbering declack? < 1325540960 319002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's so unproposte < 1325540972 579420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thought it was Alexandra? I guess Alexis could be a name too. <-- i believe in ancient times, alexis was a male name. < 1325540972 757823 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tibia is the best part of that < 1325540977 85265 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325540979 210655 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people will ask me like < 1325540981 751150 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you name your kid that < 1325540982 684352 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll go < 1325540983 934258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a component of a Dussarct. < 1325540988 473782 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tibia is my favourite body part after alll hah aha < 1325540995 182755 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tibia is a real thing dude........ < 1325541006 95736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1325541016 400487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, fancy not knowing what a tibia is. < 1325541024 893242 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you are scottish < 1325541045 53610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: it would be more reasonable to assume an American doesn't know what a tibia is. < 1325541068 663000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, we do all kick each other in the shins so much that the tibia has been bred out over time. < 1325541095 780541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you unable to twist your leg joints? < 1325541114 96485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325541116 100518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to do that? < 1325541136 243098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do traditional folk dance of course. < 1325541141 497355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a scot this is important. < 1325541153 926880 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhotic or non-rhotic folk dance? < 1325541167 771735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you add a bunch of r's, probably non-rhotic. < 1325541222 993101 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- kallisti "gosh i'm really only smug about these things by accident" kallisti < 1325541245 653913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only sometimes. :> < 1325541252 514610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rhotic or non-rhotic unladen swallow dance < 1325541282 716079 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitin Aftwott could be a name < 1325541323 533522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalatickly: prone to giggle uncontrollably when touching things in caves < 1325541331 716935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: also that wasn't really smugness. < 1325541342 268378 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when touched by caves? < 1325541343 797872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke. ha ha < 1325541347 593159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325541351 75236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :caves usually don't poke at people though < 1325541375 652642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you do, don't cross the weitmen < 1325541382 246226 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: jokes can be smug < 1325541383 139071 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine this could be Nitin Aftwott's area of expertise < 1325541392 652217 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when they're indistinguishable from smartassery < 1325541402 704824 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may make people more likely to see smug intent where there is none in the future! < 1325541406 860948 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevds can be sleepy < 1325541409 256675 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1325541411 940106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325541412 116095 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: dude < 1325541412 744981 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1325541413 281164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitin aftwott, spelunker < 1325541415 250805 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 fucking pm < 1325541434 305621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: hey at least I was being accurate! < 1325541449 549251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably would be the non-rhotic one. if non-rhotic dances were a thing. < 1325541450 665115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: 11 pm in CET < 1325541460 823242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is ngevd from hexham? < 1325541488 525494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325541506 425366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i think you just outdid Vorpal < 1325541519 190710 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: regardless of style, you dance like an unproposte baffice < 1325541549 622397 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, at what? < 1325541550 626128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: undid him how? < 1325541554 907484 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, ngevd is from hexham. < 1325541560 507530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *outdid < 1325541562 194775 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of what started the whole hexham thing. < 1325541566 528749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: obliviousness < 1325541574 786262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: obliviousness to what? < 1325541579 321519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha < 1325541580 754481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1325541584 35657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1325541584 212706 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1325541587 541765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1325541610 790172 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that, a laughing Fibonacci? < 1325541619 51396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever someone says facepalm I think of like a really cool kung fu move. < 1325541626 670622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you wack someone in the nose with your palm. < 1325541643 230431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: yes. < 1325541651 926914 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think I ever saw the start of the hexham thing, it was already going when I first saw it < 1325541718 659255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hexham-helsinki-hell axis < 1325541749 966145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I guess it's wrong to be smug. unless you actually are superior because you know more! < 1325541753 768168 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexland and finham < 1325541763 385789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: this is the lesson I have learned from #esoteric < 1325541776 634823 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, between someone who's smug and wrong and someone who's smug and right... < 1325541788 606316 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively: two wrongs, etc. < 1325541819 543169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION passive-aggressively twiddles his thumbs < 1325541858 19579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I think I was half-right in that non-rhotic is a bit of a misnomer. But it's also not! it's craaaazy. < 1325541864 98333 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you really think just fidgeting and complaining whenever anything like this comes up actually accomplishes anything < 1325541888 888504 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WOULD ALL JUST GET ALONG IF WE NEVER EVER EXAMINED PEOPLE AND BEHAVIOURS < 1325541917 6388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels that he is not not getting along with anyone right now. < 1325541917 185589 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could make the channel so you never see what anyone else writes < 1325541924 527275 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :should prove conflict free < 1325541966 358984 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm not not-getting-along-with-you, I'm just trying to explain why your behaviour is perceived as smug rather than eager to learn < 1325541999 473605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: and now I understand. so cool. < 1325542023 989167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> smug face. < 1325542027 158907 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why complaining that these things are ~drama~ is way more disruptive than talking about these things. < 1325542040 729144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :drama? where? < 1325542142 19619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oerjan's not really disruptive. I like that he defends me (not necessarily what I'm actually saying). :D < 1325542150 160866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore he is not disruptive < 1325542152 170757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good logic. < 1325542160 913199 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is none. and don't take it too personally, he acts this way whenever anybody disagrees with the conduct of another, ever < 1325542213 279999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shame on you. < 1325542235 953303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zetro: oh and fuck you for being so quiet < 1325542237 933960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :xandy: you too < 1325542252 347759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates everyone. rageignores everyone. < 1325542252 506226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, I don't think I ever saw the start of the hexham thing, it was already going when I first saw it < 1325542301 63242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was basically "Taneb shows up, mentions he's from Northumberland, I take a shot in the dark and ask him if he's from Hexham, both he and elliott have heart attacks." < 1325542326 68282 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when I sleep I become Taneb, go back in time, and act out the day as him. < 1325542343 87157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculation of Chinese New Year: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/chinese-new-year.png < 1325542349 355889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you have memory loss of what you did as elliott < 1325542357 724518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it way more convincing. < 1325542366 276072 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why did they have heart attacks? < 1325542408 269796 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What's a really small, boring town in Sweden? < 1325542413 780816 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really small. < 1325542416 727566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stockholm. < 1325542418 314895 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, pop. 10k. < 1325542427 451112 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda ruraly, countrysidey-located. < 1325542429 831011 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, trick question: all of them! < 1325542432 406461 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe has a market. < 1325542433 359496 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1325542440 520462 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No but seriously what's the equivalent of that, just name one. < 1325542459 363540 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someplace people in the area will know about but people on the other side of the country might not. < 1325542464 235136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I will be making a conscious effort to not presume that I'm correct about disagreements when I don't fully understand the topic. (Note this is different from not acting smug as I don't think I can do that :P ) < 1325542468 40220 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagersta perhaps < 1325542483 513190 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OK, so imagine there's a guy on IRC in a small, tight-knight community who's from Fagersta. < 1325542502 205659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe we could make the channel so you never see what anyone else writes < 1325542507 439656 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: A few years later, someone else comes in, and everything is normal until they mention they live in Västmanland county. < 1325542510 198554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just /ignore *!*@* ALL < 1325542519 213483 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Someone says "Please tell me you're not from Fagersta", and they go "How did you know???". < 1325542541 89314 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's probably not that good, because people I know from fagersta allegedly run into other people from fagersta all the time < 1325542557 237311 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1325542562 351420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. < 1325542577 83351 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OK, let's put it this way: Hexham is known for having a big ol' church and a market. < 1325542579 303408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-order Fibonacci laugh has been permitted. < 1325542582 159144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Västmanland, the land of vast men. < 1325542585 532016 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's mostly houses. < 1325542588 686986 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boring shops. < 1325542595 945106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boring people. < 1325542615 111311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I live is mostly Anytown, USA < 1325542617 887668 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And there are inexplicably two people who (a) like esolangs, (b) read Homestuck and (c) are in the same IRC channel, without (d) having ever consciously met or communicated before, ever. < 1325542623 2472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone from Nowhere, Ireland turns up I will have to leave and never come back. < 1325542638 966904 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god, you have to ask everyone you meet whether they read Homestuck next time you end up there. < 1325542647 60240 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And carry a gun so you can shoot them. < 1325542650 548894 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's prevention. < 1325542678 910231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325542680 974623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unitary authority" is that kind of like a county? < 1325542702 173200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no that's "ceremonial county" I guess one is a political entity and the other is formal/historic? < 1325542735 178840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there is none. and don't take it too personally, he acts this way whenever anybody disagrees with the conduct of another, ever <-- i'm not really against pointing things out in a polite way, i just cannot keep from rolling my eyes at what feels like recursion of self-obliviousness. including my own. < 1325542759 894969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no unitary authority is more like a state district, kind of. < 1325542767 485546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in size. < 1325542810 599190 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, there's a difference between rolling your eyes and implying everyone else is wasting their time... if there's a recurring problem that comes up in-channel, then bringing it up is more likely to solve it than pretending it doesn't happen :P < 1325542850 754699 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends to find that the main problem with metadiscussion is that there's always somebody really loud who wants to pop all the layers away... I suspect this problem occurs in programming too :P < 1325542881 108441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this discussion. too meta. < 1325542888 563451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like metametametadiscussion now. < 1325542897 777174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This discussion is a RationalWiki trigger, can it stop? < 1325542912 273293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion about the discussion about the metadiscussions < 1325542934 756465 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: My favourite thing about Stack Overflow is that they have a separate site running the same software exclusively for metadiscussion, with its /own reputation system/. < 1325542942 947705 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people with more meta rep than main-site rep. < 1325542953 962622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nowhere, Ireland is named after a pile of stones. Seriously.) < 1325542954 796763 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set /meta reputation bounties/ on questions there. < 1325542955 908800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go back to the main discussion, where we're just assholes to one another. < 1325543014 3461 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Fuck you. < 1325543022 622999 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan taking me seriously in 3, 2, 1... < 1325543054 42215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: is there a word for when you cause something not to happen by predicting that it will happen? < 1325543057 109420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like a jinx I guess. < 1325543073 419640 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733345 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733519 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733679 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543089 146577 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543105 883318 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: self-defeating prophecy < 1325543118 465555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good. < 1325543126 575254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543126 732727 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543126 732900 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543141 698422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a netsplit as like a huge storm seperated a bunch of ships.. < 1325543147 467287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an earthquake. < 1325543171 219142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan taking me seriously in 3, 2, 1... <-- please be more polite than that. you are getting close to my limit there. < 1325543179 922921 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543180 914511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a limit? < 1325543193 807542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd've thought spamming the channel to the condemnation of all would cross it. < 1325543205 794915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey i _did_ ban fax. < 1325543216 46517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, because nobody asked you to? < 1325543236 915334 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That was a joke based on your repeated tendency to miss such in-context ironies. < 1325543255 672497 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But yes, your limit is defined per person, and is approximately ten thousand ceilings lower for me than for most other people. < 1325543286 934922 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not going to step up to the responsibility of banning e.g. blatant spammers, you really shouldn't threaten people with your op powers. < 1325543394 739289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: you realize i was joking in my ^^ message? < 1325543432 472656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't make what he said any less true. < 1325543467 114575 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fair enough, but the reason I missed it is that it's sufficiently similar to things you've said in the past. < 1325543470 820801 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take my comments back. < 1325543498 47716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey if it needed to be said... < 1325543524 259369 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put them back on the table! < 1325543535 733926 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE THESE COMMENTS I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM < 1325543551 457612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nails one of them up on the eastern wall < 1325543608 380285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: take yer comments and shove 'em up yer ass! < 1325543639 152424 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION founds #esoteric-meta < 1325543644 110473 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode +b *!*@* #esoteric-meta < 1325543647 483494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I['m soorrry I 'mtired) < 1325543657 793706 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m['e to 'o < 1325543661 490123 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1325543667 830595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that MathNerd314 event was because the whole thing started so ridiculously i couldn't take it seriously. < 1325543682 100297 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325543753 817040 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543765 188894 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n < 1325543782 687080 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite an experience i must admit < 1325543802 346050 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost it at "i am the singularity" < 1325543890 417010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 10 < 1325543895 867741 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sitalk mecut ted folson leiset rehen pantauth uuiorma cyclam han < 1325543913 918329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did freenode reset the dates on all the ban lists again < 1325543920 602944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyclam = pokemon < 1325543938 470551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantauth = pokemon < 1325543945 905314 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325543949 439047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's irritating when you cannot distinguish old bans from new ones < 1325543955 947645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :leiset = pharmecutical < 1325543977 980526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the mathnerd event? < 1325543999 689497 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325544008 4629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*> [0-9]*$ < 1325544014 36932 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuiorma Rehen is probably a finnish name < 1325544027 277004 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544030 947416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325544052 726245 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, case sensitive? lack of quoting for the space? < 1325544060 423938 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.[0-9]*$ < 1325544067 243743 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-02-18.txt:22:52:01: Hask = (->) < 1325544099 412007 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd...>.[0-9]*$ < 1325544105 514846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544114 905375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.*[0-9]$ < 1325544121 438541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-04-25.txt:21:12:09: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28t_1+%2B+w*t_2+%2B+w^2*t_3%29^3+%2B+%28t_1+%2B+w^2*t_2+%2B+w*t_3%29^3+with+w+%3D+e^%282+i+pi+%2F+3%29 < 1325544123 659115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.[0-9]+$ < 1325544130 962179 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544131 121264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hask = (->) < 1325544134 752763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ lol < 1325544152 733931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1325544178 651187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*> < 1325544185 107318 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-30.txt:21:58:41: that has to change... I want computer typography! < 1325544211 774730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah obviously it never really happened. < 1325544229 797704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1325544243 659627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*i am the singularity < 1325544249 498380 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-02.txt:22:44:03: `log mathnerd.*i am the singularity < 1325544259 598445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I get what he's trying to say, but saying that Hask is literally equal to (->) is kind of silly.`log mathnerd.*>.*\d < 1325544269 197366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1325544270 346145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd[3].*i am the singularity < 1325544277 7369 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544298 284967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*\d\s*$ < 1325544305 60206 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-04.txt:01:54:25: !haskell flip (-) 1 2 < 1325544322 897803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>\s*\d\s*$ < 1325544328 842480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544333 320716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep never happened. < 1325544346 504747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log (?i)mathnerd.*>\s*\d\s*$ < 1325544352 928633 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544358 479216 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544379 392463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually was that when glogbot was down? < 1325544401 163277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hackego was down. < 1325544479 416078 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544520 69201 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sad. AW servers are so crappy, a friend's trying to get a list of all property keeps crashing a world. < 1325544949 982889 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544993 532756 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325545042 732471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I would yell at you for bringing up AW, but it's pathologically fascinating. < 1325545242 742553 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1325545260 486273 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hask = (->) < 1325545260 645638 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^^ lol < 1325545262 865736 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's correct < 1325545264 332681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathological and fascinating < 1325545310 640172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: the Hask category is literally equivalent to the function type? < 1325545339 302540 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you look at category-extras you will see the line < 1325545340 620011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The morphisms is, I think < 1325545342 365090 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Hask = (->) < 1325545351 422208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the morphism is the function type < 1325545356 102418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the objects are the types. < 1325545394 425260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a morphism is _a_ function < 1325545421 900936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question I ask is: are categories their morphisms? < 1325545429 491347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems incorrect to me. < 1325545439 184658 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's surely irrlevant, as mathnerd was almost certainly explaining some signature or declaration in category-extras < 1325545442 119141 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irrelevant < 1325545449 387243 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in haskell < 1325545451 461463 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Category < 1325545451 939554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1325545453 117378 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are. < 1325545456 606839 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you lambdabot < 1325545460 931316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: ah okay. I suppose that's the flaw of taking logs out of context. < 1325545462 82795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's one possible axiomatization of categories to only consider the morphisms < 1325545494 647454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you define the morphisms without objects? < 1325545497 701017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmm, I suppose the set of all morphisms does contain all of the relevant information... < 1325545498 337542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compositions? < 1325545504 55462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1325545529 244690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How does Hask work with functions being types?) < 1325545529 760360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can identify the objects with the identity morphisms < 1325545550 37482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it doesn't... < 1325545552 893269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are functions-as-morphisms and functions-as-types separated?) < 1325545568 674442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a function is not a type < 1325545578 970057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the morphisms are function _values_ < 1325545583 766877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int -> Int) isn't a type? < 1325545591 572514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1325545614 93171 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those category theorists should really have consulted with programmers before deciding on their terminology < 1325545655 97651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those programmers should really have consulted with me before trying category theory wait i am become kallisti < 1325545698 982775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Cartesian closed category, it has something to do with that things < 1325545704 98619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's funny is that I never actually say things like that. < 1325545713 882519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I do I'm probably joking. < 1325545720 823553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as for making the set of morphisms between two objects into an object in itself, categories where you can do that nicely are called "cartesian closed categories". i'm not quite sure if Hask is one precisely or just approximately < 1325545724 674773 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan should I read Mac Lane < 1325545728 639819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a self-deprecating manner, in fact. < 1325545741 70851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, he had things written on him? < 1325545755 7616 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Shut up all the cool kids refer to the book like that. < 1325545767 143847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, self-deprecation doesn't make being stupid cool. < 1325545782 782927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the absence of genuine categorical products might mess it up slightly < 1325545790 861956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's an interesting and irrelevant point. < 1325545806 146463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is this _|_ again? < 1325545849 378800 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What Phantom_Hoover is trying to say is that you can't say things with impunity to mockery by declaring them jokes. (You're welcome, this would have taken 5 hours to communicate.) < 1325545890 620972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: since when do I even say "oh I am an expert on this matter this random person should have consulted me" without it being obviously in the context of some kind of humor? < 1325545960 55696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey oerjan should I read Mac Lane <-- well although it's a standard recommendation, i haven't done so myself, so... < 1325545963 341821 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That question should be directed at Phantom_Hoover, I just wanted to skip 5 hours of tedium. < 1325545987 768435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah iirc < 1325545992 531478 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was hoping you'd read it so you could give me an authoritative warning it'd go way over my head :) < 1325546000 678347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't Mac Lane be approaching it from a topological angle? < 1325546004 200839 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O BitBucket has an option to do git < 1325546023 126319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I'm using BitBucket is because Gregor has me thinking that it may be easier < 1325546031 163889 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, that hg may be easier < 1325546042 91377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: hm it probably has a lot of advanced examples, at least < 1325546062 498826 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the first i heard about mac lane was people saying it was just too much for them :P < 1325546076 466029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, it's likely most mathematicians don't know all of them either :P < 1325546076 624321 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who _actually know mathematics_!! < 1325546084 604131 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VI. Monads and Algebras. < 1325546084 759851 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VII. Monoids. < 1325546086 74412 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ordering < 1325546106 154704 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VII: Monoids. A monoid is just a monad not necessarily in the category of endofunctors, what's the problem? < 1325546146 846797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endomorphisms of a category make a monoid too < 1325546287 875113 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325546297 475295 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One day I will know more category theory than you and THEN the tables will be TURNED. < 1325546301 400445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: i guess this may be one book where you're not expect to get all the way through :P < 1325546305 760848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ed < 1325546312 697905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, I don't really know category theory? < 1325546322 175587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day, coming now < 1325546327 568393 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THAT IS WHY IT WILL BE EXCEEDINGLY EASY < 1325546349 553234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of baffled why you thought I did. < 1325546353 456085 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't. < 1325546356 508224 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would prefer Categories for the Working Magician. < 1325546390 585394 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, page 1 doesn't look so bad < 1325546397 701541 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is checking the amazon preview :P < 1325546412 904658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold, as I saw a functor in half! < 1325546458 641308 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whenever possible we write f x and not f(x), omitting unnecessary parentheses." < 1325546467 202866 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: category theory was evidently doomed to end up in haskell from the start < 1325546480 791722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1325546520 93298 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh this is simpler than i expected < 1325546521 719847 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1325546522 710368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure the topology book with the surprise category theory was a graduate texts in mathematics book too. < 1325546523 820435 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only page 4 < 1325546549 514437 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't like these diagrams though :'( < 1325546558 759976 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make linear notation for them :P < 1325546572 536378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: what, the diagrams are like half the point < 1325546592 406813 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of the diagrams is that it gets rid of inelegant linear notation and lets you go from page to brain a lot faster. < 1325546660 207635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to grasp the snake lemma without diagrams - not pretty. < 1325546718 902769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i remember what the snake lemma actually said. < 1325546726 635033 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: yeah but they're ugly :P < 1325546748 382424 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what did you read to learn cat theory (as i will henceforth call it, forever) < 1325546750 760028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always found them quite pretty. < 1325546820 116656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: i think it was partly osmosis. also homological algebra and algebraic topology books < 1325546846 501837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learned programming by osmosis. < 1325546849 596566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learn by Wikipedia and by Haskell and by ask people question in this channel < 1325546882 796222 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries the last one < 1325546886 613207 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is category theory < 1325546887 603997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the K-theory used in my PhD < 1325546889 565828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I probably spent about 6 months slowly reading things about Perl before I ever actually wrote a real program. < 1325546920 800804 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_Turn_(film)#Accurate_Math_on_Film I'll watch this and learn the snake lemma < 1325546925 598669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* engree tries the last one < 1325546930 924722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraic topology books? < 1325546948 634034 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: ask people question in this channel < 1325546950 99644 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325546951 209245 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1325546971 701215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :About algebraic topology? < 1325546982 149980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: ask me all of your category theory questions. I am the expert. < 1325546992 776076 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, grothendieck literally lives in the mountains in the middle of nowhere? < 1325546995 395639 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1325547035 857860 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nationality None (Stateless) < 1325547036 14348 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how did he manage that one < 1325547105 968129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 2010, Grothendieck wrote a letter to Luc Illusie. In this "Déclaration d'intention de non-publication", he states that essentially all materials that have been published in his absence have been done without his permission. He asks that none of his work should be reproduced in whole or in part, and even further that libraries containing such copies of his work remove them." < 1325547110 216522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325547137 868086 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Some countries actually state that you have the right to become stateless. < 1325547146 98819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: for example: did you know that a category is a set of objects, a set of morphisms from one source object to another target object, and an associative composition operator with an identity element on those morphisms? < 1325547147 282847 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You didn't hear about that? < 1325547156 483738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: yes you can learn these things and more by asking me questions. < 1325547161 456298 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I have? < 1325547170 218737 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it came up in here. :p < 1325547179 261032 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, the article doesn't explain how he became stateles < 1325547179 618969 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1325547188 955279 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers citation needing it < 1325547203 276641 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexander_Grothendieck#Statelessness heh < 1325547241 813500 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just CAN'T do cohomology of groups just after explaining Snake Lemma :D < 1325547242 7137 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :killingbuddha1 2 weeks ago < 1325547247 734320 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: help, I wandered into some bizarro youtube < 1325547256 228693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1325547256 549882 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has a phd in mathematics < 1325547269 614138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also quite possible, given his age, that his citizenship is from a non-existant country. < 1325547272 329566 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@belyi3 Valid point: how do these things come about? The answer is: from algebraic topology. Starting with Euler characteristic and Betti numbers of surfaces, one generalises to homology and cohomology groups. Then some very smart people realised that the underlying operations in homological & cohomological computations can be abstractised so that only the algebraic remnants remain. So this is what you get. < 1325547272 488252 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you, I'd love to see a more historically motivated account of cohomology. < 1325547272 488464 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc75 1 year ago < 1325547272 650436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325547279 780955 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HELP... < 1325547300 843345 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: born in germany, lives in france? doubt it < 1325547301 905650 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325547313 11261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the context in which the surprise cat theory came. < 1325547353 538956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something; I was kind of sleepy by that point and I had an interview the next day. < 1325547362 496810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: maybe it has something to do with East/West Germany? < 1325547365 191727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Germany runs under jus sanguinis, and didn't grant citizenship to people who would otherwise be born stateless until more recently than that. < 1325547371 26813 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fair enough < 1325547374 196425 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, http://www.grothendieckcircle.org/ actually removed links to his papers < 1325547389 84137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should go on long trips with only textbooks to entertain me more; I learnt a lot on that trip.) < 1325547453 75177 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325547465 956319 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325547526 998583 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, his mother was German. < 1325547597 445910 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way that he was *born* stateless, and his original citizenship would not have ceased to be in effect... < 1325547670 475307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1939 Grothendieck came to France and lived in various camps for displaced persons with his mother, first at the Camp de Rieucros, and subsequently lived for the remainder of the war in the village of Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, where he was sheltered and hidden in local boarding-houses or pensions." -- maybe this? < 1325547717 562262 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grothendieck is hilarious < 1325547751 52168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. The Nazis denaturalised people. < 1325547786 330246 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the law reinstating the citizenships only reinstates citizenship on people who take residence in Germany after 1945. < 1325547815 95149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, he could actually have become stateless because of the Nazis, and continue to be stateless by merit of never having gone back to Germany. < 1325547827 234150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : You just CAN'T do cohomology of groups just after explaining Snake Lemma :D <-- iirc that is correct, since the snake lemma is a building block several steps before defining (co)homology < 1325547851 675954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, it is perfectly feasible for him to be stateless. < 1325547862 380680 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be able to gain a citizenship trivially. < 1325547890 599364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does stateless even have a practical impact on one's life? < 1325547893 771523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ness < 1325547904 530225 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: absolutely < 1325547924 403610 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You need to do some really annoying paperwork to do a few things. < 1325547931 51762 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. get a passport. < 1325547941 568094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still subject to all the laws in the area you reside in. < 1325547950 412682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically just makes life more inconvenient. < 1325547957 540179 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made a list of the most difficult and complicated kind of mathematics, and "motivic cohomology" was at the top. < 1325548005 90668 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I doubt you could get a job while stateless? < 1325548009 737474 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This status is largely because of post-WWII international law which requires nations to treat stateless people that happen to be in there country as, essentially, legal immigrants. < 1325548020 428977 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/there/their/ < 1325548087 114535 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did the nazis actually do < 1325548097 202564 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip german citizenship of people they didn't like? < 1325548106 402445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325548107 551063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, jews at least < 1325548124 586801 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Anyone they like" is by far the more accurate classification. < 1325548132 133471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325548138 234888 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jews were merely a significant proportion of that set. < 1325548150 867557 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1325548152 202750 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't like < 1325548152 677641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1325548162 785234 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck this country im out" --hilter < 1325548166 788938 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WE HAVE REVOKED THE CITIZENSHIP OF HITLER" :P < 1325548167 264558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former worked as well. < 1325548176 581124 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would provide a really convenient country for them to bomb, mind you. < 1325548197 277823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"anyone they like" can mean that they chose whomever they wanted to be denaturalized. < 1325548248 205696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyoned they liked to denaturalize. :P < 1325548350 145262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :him iiy nam eiska llisti < 1325548456 769093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's nothing about the set of morphisms of a category that requires it to form a bijective mapping right? < 1325548467 74371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that required? < 1325548569 492857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325548599 56008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no. < 1325548600 322943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijective mapping to what < 1325548628 862485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not required to be a set, it can be a proper class < 1325548646 551144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijective mapping from the object set to the object set. < 1325548649 368895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, right. < 1325548671 522285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. for one thing, the objects are not required to be conceptual sets. < 1325548689 67176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no I mean... < 1325548700 622954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the morphisms aren't acting on sets of objects themselves. < 1325548733 322004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not. such a category is called "concrete". < 1325548759 382594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is otherwise no requirement that morphisms be _functions_ < 1325548777 49053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay here's a better question: a single morphism can act on multiple objects in the category, yes or no? < 1325548786 603653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there one source object < 1325548789 566896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one target object < 1325548795 745847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. a single morphism always has exactly one. < 1325548799 824795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of each.