00:04:16 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: http://haskell.org). 00:05:25 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 00:10:26 Vorpal: It doesn't provide any UTF-8 functions, so I'm not sure why you picked that excuse. <-- iirc fizzie said it had unicode support? 00:10:36 like u8"foo" 00:11:15 `log u8 00:11:23 `pastelogs u8 00:11:25 `pastelog u8 00:11:26 dammit 00:11:34 2008-06-24.txt:20:45:55: however "extern inline" and "inline" without extern have reversed meanings beteween gnu89 and C99 iirc 00:11:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3080 00:11:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30914 00:12:09 wait, 2011-12-24.txt:13:07:23: Anyway, for string literals "foo" is in char with unspecified encoding, L"foo" is in wchar_t with unspecified encoding, u"foo" and U"foo" are in char16_t and char32_t, respectively, with unspecified encoding unless those macros are defined; and, finally, u8"foo" is also in char, but explicitly UTF-8 encoded. 00:12:17 colloinkgravisom, fizzie ^ 00:12:22 I trusted him 00:12:31 -!- twice11 has left. 00:12:50 anyway it wouldn't apply here, due to SOCK doing byte IO anyway 00:13:04 I TRUSTED YOU FIZZIE 00:13:08 I TRUSTED YOU 00:13:17 colloinkgravisom, INDEED 00:13:18 Vorpal: Anyway, I said it had UTF-8 literals approximately one line below, jesus christ. 00:13:26 That doesn't mean it has any functions. 00:13:34 colloinkgravisom, well... that is stupid 00:14:41 Vorpal: Well, you could write a perfectly cromulent UTF-8 library in fully portable C99; what you _couldn't_ do is write any kind of literal that has any kind of guarantee of being UTF-8, AFAIK. 00:14:49 So it adds the thing you couldn't technically do. 00:14:56 It's just that nobody actually has a problem with that and the library would be useful. 00:15:12 well true 00:15:36 colloinkgravisom, fuck WG14 (iirc?) again 00:17:12 Does C even need updates? Why are they publishing new standards. 00:17:26 Probably the only reason the working group even exists any more is to employ people. 00:18:08 heh 00:18:43 colloinkgravisom, well, someone need to spend a year talking about how to best to correct a minor typo that didn't actually change the meaning of the standard 00:18:51 it is a vitally important job 00:18:57 it must be performed 00:20:52 Vorpal: --Vorpal "Funge-108" Vorpal 00:21:10 colloinkgravisom, that died out 00:21:34 colloinkgravisom, anyway you have to admit Funge-98 is way less precise than C99 00:21:51 Mycology is more precise :) 00:23:38 colloinkgravisom, yes but there are two issues with it: 1) it is a test suite, not a carefully worded spec, thus making it more work to figure out why something went wrong 2) it is not actually official as such, thus meaning it doesn't carry the force of an official spec 00:23:46 * Sgeo has a lot of trouble seeing reasons to avoid typeclass abuse if it makes things easier. 00:23:57 im dead inside now 00:24:01 again 00:24:01 because it is abuse? 00:24:30 because it doesn't make things easier, because there is a better way, because ;_; 00:24:41 Sgeo: hint: when you do terrible things and argue above your level of expertise and demonstrate extended ignorance over a period of time without devoting a large amount of effort to trying to understand why many others who are more experience than you are telling you to not do something 00:24:42 Sgeo: nobody 00:24:43 Sgeo: will 00:24:44 Sgeo: want 00:24:44 Sgeo: to 00:24:45 Sgeo: help 00:24:47 Sgeo: you 00:25:05 save the questions for before you ignore everybody 00:25:14 -!- nys has joined. 00:29:43 colloinkgravisom: There is precisely one encoding, and that is UTF-8. 00:30:24 C does not ship with a cromulent UTF-8 library, it ships with an ASCII library and a wishy-washy "wide character" library. 00:30:29 Thus, C is fundamentally broken. 00:30:49 pikhq, precisely one encoding for what? 00:30:57 Vorpal: Text. 00:31:33 (yes, I'm aware there's technically other encodings, but as far as I'm concerned there's UTF-8, pointless isomorphisms with UTF-8, and broken) 00:31:47 * Vorpal forces pikhq to use some weird DOS code page 00:32:10 pikhq: imagine if there were people like you in 1991 00:32:26 colloinkgravisom, that would have saved a /lot/ of trouble 00:32:29 Vorpal: NO DON'T MAKE ME USE LEGACY JIS 00:32:51 pikhq, you have to use CP864 00:32:56 it is for arabic 00:33:02 colloinkgravisom: '91? That predates UTF-8. 00:33:04 you have to learn that language now 00:33:12 Vorpal: either you don't understand what i'm saying or are weird 00:33:15 -!- TheLittleOne has joined. 00:33:20 pikhq: '91 was when unicode 1.0 was published 00:33:25 colloinkgravisom: Yup. 00:33:35 colloinkgravisom, I mean, people doing it right earlier on would have saved a lot of trouble 00:33:41 pikhq: "there is precisely one encoding and that is " 00:33:52 oh right 00:33:54 like that 00:34:04 colloinkgravisom: Hell, I would even accept UTF-16 *if* it got to be ubiquitous. 00:34:05 (yeah, yeah, unicode is a character set, not an encoding) 00:34:10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Character_encoding <-- what a mess 00:34:14 Unicode has many problems, in my opinion 00:34:30 pikhq, it is on windows 00:34:32 zzo38: Yes, but it has fewer problems than essentially all the alternatives. 00:34:36 pikhq: my point is that the zealotry doesn't really help because if we build systems that can't handle changing encoding then they won't be able to adapt to anything better than unicode 00:34:39 Vorpal: In the API. 00:34:44 which has the effect of entrenching unicode forever 00:34:48 pikhq, that and ASCII. At least you can detect which is which from the byte order mark 00:34:51 and surely stagnancy is not a property we should aim for. 00:34:56 nobody could claim that unicode is perfect 00:35:28 colloinkgravisom: What I'm *trying* to say is that we should try not to encourage further use of legacy encodings. 00:35:33 indeed unicode have many problems, starting with there being multiple encodings of it 00:35:50 And C not having a reasonable handling of UTF-8 built in is one of those. 00:35:59 Erm. 00:36:08 Is one thing that encourages further use of legacy encodings. 00:36:13 pikhq: well, I'm not sure C actually has an ASCII library. 00:36:19 isalpha is locale-dependent, after all 00:36:22 colloinkgravisom, what about string.h? 00:36:28 hm 00:36:35 colloinkgravisom: Strictly speaking it has an "8-bit character set" library that on common systems amounts to an ASCII library. 00:36:37 well ctype.h too 00:36:38 unfortunately, to take advantage of that, "unsigned char" has to be able to store every character you care about 00:36:44 pikhq: 8-bit! 8-bit! 00:36:48 pikhq: char doesn't have to be 8 bits! 00:36:55 colloinkgravisom: Minimum 8 bits. 00:37:08 colloinkgravisom, it has to be 8 bits or larger and a multiple of 2 bits iirc? 00:37:08 i'm saying that you could have a 32-bit unsigned char with correct isalpha() behaviour, etc. 00:37:11 or something like that 00:37:14 C's deficiency is tying everything else to characters 00:37:17 Vorpal: Just 8 bits or larger. 00:37:18 perhaps power of two bits 00:37:23 so you'd be restricted to >=32-bit types, and a lot of space would be wasted, etc. 00:37:31 And anything more than that is only found on the Deathstation 9000. 00:37:34 but I don't think C actually forbids a Unicode implementation at all 00:37:35 LLVM is designed better than C. 00:37:39 pikhq, hm. What were the old POSIX restrictions on char? 00:37:58 pikhq, before it decided "exactly 8 bits due to intersection of old rules and C99 rules" 00:38:08 pikhq: which is presumably why wchar_t started existing: so that you could implement decent character semantics without the knock-on effects of a larger char 00:38:09 I dunno. 00:38:27 I have a hunch that text handling is outside of C's domain in the first place, though 00:38:31 colloinkgravisom: Of course, wchar_t itself has problems. 00:38:35 I believe wchar_t is 16 bits 00:38:39 s/char/byte/g and remove all the functions that purport to operate on text 00:38:40 UTF-32 is a variable-width encoding. 00:38:43 and it is a pain to interface with 00:38:44 colloinkgravisom, helpful: Not shouting at me constantly 00:38:46 and people can use a unicode library if they want more 00:38:53 the problem there is that IO is system-dependent :/ 00:38:54 I used ncursesw at one point 00:38:57 quite a PITA 00:38:58 Vorpal: wchar_t is *typically* 16 bits. 00:39:15 Sgeo: yeah what i just said to you was all full of the rare sight known as a "lowercase shouting" 00:39:23 (I needed Swedish output) 00:39:45 colloinkgravisom: Meh; C is a bad language if you want portability anyways. 00:39:52 -!- TheLittleOne has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 00:39:54 Sgeo: it's called exasperation, you're responding to criticism and advice by just ignoring the bits you don't like and insisting on going with what you are, and then inciting people to re-defend what they've already defended without you having attempted to rebut them 00:40:01 At a minimum you need POSIX. 00:40:02 it wears thin quickly 00:40:13 pikhq, it is what current systems are built upon sadly 00:40:13 pikhq: yeah. iirc C doesn't even have directory handling. 00:40:23 at some layer all common systems today are C 00:40:23 at all. 00:40:30 colloinkgravisom: Yup. 00:40:41 i don't think you quite need POSIX though :) more like intersection(POSIX, Windows) 00:40:44 colloinkgravisom: That's so you can implement a conforming C system for DOS 1.0. 00:40:52 which is basically C with bare minimum system interfaces 00:41:16 colloinkgravisom, problem is, POSIX call it foo(char*, int) while windows calls it bar(int, HANDLE, char*) 00:41:40 Vorpal: eh... mcmap compiles on both POSIX and Windows save the platform-specific header files 00:41:44 and implementation files 00:41:50 and it does /networking/ 00:41:54 admittedly glib smooths over some differences 00:42:06 Can the Haskell type newtype T v f x = T (T x f v -> f x); have join? 00:42:09 colloinkgravisom, indeed. Also windows use almost-bsd-style sockets 00:42:10 not quite 00:42:14 void socket_init(void); 00:42:14 socket_t make_socket(int domain, int type, int protocol); 00:42:14 void console_init(void); 00:42:14 void console_cleanup(void); 00:42:14 mmap_handle_t make_mmap(int fd, size_t len, void **addr); 00:42:15 but very similar 00:42:15 mmap_handle_t resize_mmap(mmap_handle_t old, void *old_addr, int fd, size_t old_len, size_t new_len, void **addr); 00:42:18 void sync_mmap(void *addr, size_t len); 00:42:20 + definitions of socket_t and mmap_handle_t 00:42:22 is all mcmap needs that isn't common 00:42:23 colloinkgravisom, apart from network you run into more differences 00:42:24 Vorpal: Windows uses ported BSD sockets. 00:42:30 Vorpal: Not just BSD-style. 00:42:36 pikhq, I thought function names differed? 00:42:38 pikhq: well... 00:42:41 socket_t make_socket(int domain, int type, int protocol) 00:42:41 { 00:42:41 return WSASocket(domain, type, protocol, 0, 0, 0); 00:42:41 } 00:42:42 Vorpal: It's actually a port of the 4.4 BSD stack. 00:42:43 you need that 00:42:48 Can it be made a category if type argument are moved? 00:42:50 pikhq, heh 00:42:56 and what colloinkgravisom said 00:42:57 *With* a tiny couple of additions to integrate better with Win32 oddness. 00:42:59 pikhq: windows doesn't have socket() 00:43:02 so yaeh 00:43:03 And Win16. 00:43:03 *yeah 00:43:18 colloinkgravisom, anyway try output anything but ASCII or colours to the console, as far as I remember you will run into issues on windows then 00:43:18 zzo38: dunno 00:43:30 Vorpal: not colours, those have to be done with api calls 00:43:35 or maybe you can load that ansi.sys thing to make it work 00:43:36 colloinkgravisom, ah 00:43:46 basically windows supports all the ansi stuff but only via syscalls :P 00:43:46 ANSI.SYS is only for DOS programs, I think 00:43:49 colloinkgravisom, anyway the windows console is stuck in DOS codepages iirc 00:43:52 zzo38: ah, ok 00:44:03 colloinkgravisom, from what I remember of trying to output Swedish chars during a lab at university 00:44:04 Vorpal: hmm, that would surprise me. there's powershell and all that which reuses the terminal 00:44:12 would seem distinctly 90s if that didn't do unicode. 00:44:14 it's .NET and all. 00:44:45 Strange. At a *minimum* I'd expect it to do Windows legacy codepages. 00:44:47 colloinkgravisom, I /think/ you can do some wchar_t stuff to make it work. Except you still need different code for Windows and Linux to get something like åäö properly output 00:45:05 Actually, I bet it infers which charset to use 00:45:09 but with char? It is code page mapping of those chars 00:45:27 Vorpal: well that's the c interface not the console :P 00:45:39 colloinkgravisom, possibly 00:45:47 colloinkgravisom, I just know it is a PITA 00:45:49 DOS executables -> DOS codepage, Win32 command line -> Windows legacy codepage or Unicode, depending on what the resources say 00:46:00 pikhq, well it could be windows legacy codepage 00:46:22 pikhq, what it wasn't was UTF-8, UTF-16 or even the same encoding that visual studio used when you wrote the letter in the file 00:46:31 colloinkgravisom, I'm pretty sure you started out speaking in a hostile way, and misunderstanding what I was doing. Even though I see a way to proceed without typeclass hackery, your attitude does not help me realize that. 00:46:55 pikhq, if you do puts("åäö"); in visual studio you ain't going to get that out 00:47:13 Vorpal: Recent Visual Studio is almost certainly using a UTF. 00:47:19 pikhq, most certainly 00:47:24 pikhq, I think it was vs2005 00:47:27 don't remember 00:47:29 could be 2008? 00:47:39 I mean, jeeze, Windows *95* supported UTF-16. 00:47:47 Sgeo: sigh. you've moved from phase I, denial, into phase II, indignancy. i would be less harsh if your behaviour wrt terrible ideas was not so completely predictable. like i said: whatever, code what you want, but at least i have dibs on saying i told you so when it doesn't work like you want or how it should for the reasons I said. 00:47:59 Sgeo: i didn't misunderstand what you were doing at all, also. 00:48:00 (long filenames are encoded via UTF-16) 00:48:13 colloinkgravisom, what is phase III? 00:48:17 i said it was incomprehensible; that doesn't mean i didn't understand what you were trying to do. 00:48:28 Vorpal: dunno. i usually stop listening before that happens. 00:48:32 colloinkgravisom, :D 00:50:14 colloinkgravisom, for science you must check the next time 00:55:48 Sgeo: here is the last i will say on the forkCap thing: haskellers expect the text of a program to portray its meaning. they expect a single expression to be abstract and mean one thing; building other expressions out of them should not drastically change the meaning of a subexpression. this is a directly anti-magic philosophy: we (and by "we", i mean "people actually experienced with haskell") expect code to mean what it says, and say w 00:55:49 hat it means. when we see "makeCap forkIO", we expect makeCap to do some transformation on an opaque value of type (IO () -> IO ThreadId). we do not expect "makeCap (forkIO . buildIOActionFromGivenString)" to cause a fundamental change in meaning just because someone broke the semantics of the language with dangerous and easy-to-misuse extensions. but by "inspecting" the types like this, you introduce such a fundamental meaning change. a 00:55:49 nd indeed, we do not expect "makeCap (id :: a -> a)" to mean one thing, but "makeCap (id :: IO () -> IO ())" to mean another. again, your "solution" (if it works; I would expect it to blow up on id, actually, due to the polymorphism) breaks this. even the "n-argument" thing breaks this: "makeCap (id :: a -> a)" vs. "makeCap (id :: (a -> b) -> a -> b)". such a thing is interesting only as a fun perversity, a "what not to do". to call it " 00:55:54 easier" because it obscures meaning, makes abstraction far more difficult and confusing, and acts in a brittle, unpredictable manner that "looks" at its arguments in ways we do not expect well-behaved black-box abstractions to... is one of the worst applications of the word "easier" i can think of. and it's not like you have any real excuse for any of this, either, as i already presented a dirt-simple solution with no hackiness at all th 00:55:59 at properly used the capabilities of the facility you are trying to utilise, Safe Haskell. 00:57:30 -!- itidus20 has joined. 00:58:16 Thank you for the Safe Haskell IO a -> Cap a solution, btw 00:58:55 But I do feel uneasy with it, because it seems almost too easy that someone might write a Cap () to do whatever with it and claim that this usage is safe 00:59:15 you can do the exact same thing with makeCap. 00:59:55 of course in the ideal object-capability solution nobody can synthesise a capability like that, they can only compose new ones out of the ones they've been given. it's just that the IO functions in Haskell represent the capability to do anything. 01:00:04 obviously constructing capabilities from that is a very risky business. 01:00:14 there's no way to avoid that if you're embedding capabilities like this. 01:00:30 which is why you have to minimise these "points of failure". 01:00:32 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:00:53 I don't see the issue with makeCap though. Unless someone uses unsafePerformIO, the capability they create can't just be used by some malicious Cap 01:01:40 do { let cap = Cap (print 42); ... } === do { cap <- makeCap (print 42); ... } 01:02:07 your only use of IO in the original was to restrict capability creation to maximally-privileged things (which happen to be the same things that can execute IO actions, coincidentally) 01:02:12 Safe Haskell already has this capability. 01:02:37 anyway 01:02:37 But I do feel uneasy with it, because it seems almost too easy that someone might write a Cap () to do whatever with it and claim that this usage is safe 01:02:47 "to do whatever with it" is way too vague to actually answer 01:02:58 so unless you have an actual concrete example of how this is less secure (it isn't, in any way)... 01:04:37 launchMissilesCap :: Cap (); launchMissilesCap = Cap launchMissiles -- I think I need to understand Safe Haskell a bit better. But suppose someone wrote a library that did this 01:04:41 And marked it as Safe 01:05:04 Sgeo: so what you're saying is 01:05:08 if you install malicious libraries 01:05:11 and provide them to user code 01:05:12 Well, I guess it would need to be Trustworthy to be used by a untrusted code? 01:05:14 your security is violated? 01:05:15 DAMN! 01:05:25 colloinkgravisom, ^^question 01:05:35 i don't know much about safe haskell, check the docs, but it's irrelevant 01:05:58 the whole point of Cap is that you only pass it around and don't offer global things because that disrupts the object-capability modfel 01:05:59 model 01:06:06 if you install something that maliciously violates this by using an unsafe module 01:06:12 turns out your security is violated 01:06:15 if you want to feel better about it 01:06:18 call the Cap constructor UnsafeCap 01:06:27 the module already has Unsafe in the name, so if you REALLY need that extra hint 01:06:33 it's not like such code couldn't just use unsafePerformIO in the first place 01:06:42 which is on the exact same level of safety as the Cap constructor from your POV 01:06:46 But that same unsafe module needs to be used for the top-level program to make its legitimate capabilities 01:07:22 yes, because IT'S A PRIVILEGED MODULE! 01:07:26 great power, great responsibility, etc. etc. etc. 01:07:43 obviously you cannot give power to create arbitrary capabilities without giving the power to abuse it 01:07:52 Safe Haskell is not a substitute for NOT INSTALLING MALICIOUS LIBRARIE 01:07:52 S 01:08:01 and exposing them to untrusted code 01:08:02 Is the compiler capable of automatically marking modules as safe? 01:10:11 colloinkgravisom, in case you're wondering what makeCap id does: Makes a capability that allows something that has it to execute arbitrary IO 01:10:19 (currently) 01:10:30 Sgeo: basically you're saying that the IO creation doubles as a way to stop you declaring top-level ones. but it doesn't really, because Cap.Unsafe and its contents (the constructor) is on the exact level of unsafety as System.IO.Unsafe. 01:10:33 At least, I think so 01:10:49 yay, you can't predict how your own hard-to-understand hack magic works! 01:10:52 always a good sign 01:12:29 colloinkgravisom, but there's more of a community aversion to abuse of unsafePerformIO than there is to abuse of UnsafeCap, especially since UnsafeCap needs to be used anyway in legitimate capacity. 01:13:31 I guess, though, that people will consider any libraries that abuse UnsafeCap to be literally worthless and ignore them, though 01:14:30 -!- itidus20 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 01:14:55 Sgeo: but UnsafeCap should never ever be used in a top-level definition 01:15:39 anyway unsafePerformIO is used legitimately too 01:15:46 there are rules, they have to be followed, it's as simple as that 01:15:59 even a fully object-capability system has to have a carefully-written implementation to expose the top-level capabilities without bugs 01:17:29 colloinkgravisom, what about by the untrustworthy code that gets the capabilities to do whatever as an argument? Is that not a top-level def.. derp. But that's still a type of something -> Cap whatever at the top level 01:17:45 (Although not a use of UnsafeCap at the top level) 01:17:52 Sgeo: the something is what matters 01:17:59 there's also a value of type Cap a -> Cap a at top level 01:18:01 :t id 01:18:02 forall a. a -> a 01:18:03 THE HORRORS OF ID!!! 01:18:11 there's also a function of type 01:18:15 (IO a -> a) -> (IO a -> a) 01:18:19 but that doesn't mean you can extract a value out of IO 01:18:44 the point of Cap is just restricting the only values of type (Cap a) (apart from trivial (return x) and the like) that can be constructed to ones that are passed in as parameters 01:18:57 There's a value of type Cap a -> Cap (). There's also a value of the same exact type made with UnsafeCap 01:21:07 Sgeo: what is your point 01:21:46 That looking at a type is insufficient to see whether abuse of UnsafeCap is going on 01:22:09 you're really quite massively Missing The Point 01:22:13 such a value would not be an abuse of UnsafeCap 01:22:17 it's not an abuse if it provides nothing unsafe 01:22:39 the only unsafe thing is exposing an actual capability (which is a term that only makes sense within your system; broadly for you it seems to be "any actual IO effect") to something not passed it 01:22:45 that's it 01:22:47 and it's irrelevant 01:22:51 because like I said 01:22:55 any case where you could say 01:22:59 foo = UnsafeCap . readFile 01:23:02 you could just as well say 01:23:07 foo = unsafePerformIO . makeCap readFile 01:23:11 (if that even types with your hack...) 01:23:41 and since Cap.Unsafe is on THE EXACT SAME SAFETY LEVEL, and must be used with THE EXACT SAME CAUTION as System.IO.Unsafe, because they do the SAME THING: exposing IO actions in contexts where it is not safe-by-default to do so 01:23:45 it is irrelevant 01:24:19 *Capabilties System.IO.Unsafe> :t unsafePerformIO . makeCap $ readFile 01:24:19 unsafePerformIO . makeCap $ readFile :: FilePath -> Cap String 01:26:29 that's not what my code said. 01:26:38 and I was not really interested in the answer. 01:26:49 btw, Cap is the wrong name, call it CapIO or something 01:27:13 Cap doesn't really represent capabilities, it's just an IO monad with a convenient wrapper so that you can't use Haskell's non-object-capability libraries 01:34:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:35:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:03:43 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:05:37 where the hell does one find a name like colloinkgravisom 02:05:47 * quintopia too lazy to read up 02:10:22 quintopia: `words 02:10:24 `words 02:10:26 `words 15 02:10:31 uite 02:10:32 lprom hortal affore stanzkur cripth suppo diopseud nehangiti heretaturg nec bel fordfinin kev nunane frtheodii 02:10:37 `word 50 02:10:40 (note: word =/= words) 02:10:41 to pembaress subftraptayhei dinver witchraur bsclfseueno latowpre farmetor asters peron excens monres niesteigeumedeidetic torectonlogodickedj co edessac ne sumop phanty kaltylvilbp ing seed bamparibury gopackenia thcral ii fionio rooklee wel ren ats semer mulere nues ber ohathro hephebratatersavandous sowerotfoluu inocy phigbera cludawhivocadopiren nain volmorowinac gaischicisa bourfinonsob yoe cheathaliolinfintegui diungstlerd sions chafle 02:11:02 ah, 02:11:03 `words --eng-all --spanish --french --swedish --finnish --catalan --eng-fiction 25 02:11:03 oo fun 02:11:05 is what produced colloinkgravisom 02:11:14 sortónics pristat porvente lenlauca leindia gar gegnetsertis pontroya ellerka uppinkstis cre stau endra pondovàclon iyillejari isés codeter ölteftwat cantitlir orallnotavere omeofy speräks crecun shvillej revol 02:11:17 well, it was "colloinkgravisomed". 02:13:40 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:14:21 quintopia: btw the full title is Colloinkgravisom of Hexham tyvm 02:14:39 well of course, m'lord 02:15:20 quintopia: the house of Colloinkgravisom has a long history, marred only by the fact that nobody can spell our name 02:16:10 i have never said anything untoward about the coloingravisomes, m'lord 02:24:54 -!- androidgravisom has joined. 02:25:10 sup 02:25:27 whoa 02:25:39 what sort of android 02:27:01 it's a "scroll excel" 7" tablet which is under suspicion of being THE CHEAPEST 02:27:22 But! Hey, 1 ghzes! 02:27:48 hurray tablet! 02:28:13 i think this thing is using vga output :| 02:28:56 it's trying so hard to be an ipad. so hard 02:29:14 wtf 02:29:24 das bs 02:29:42 which part 02:29:51 WOW THI ONSCREEB KYVOARD SUCK VALLS 02:30:21 does it not swype? 02:30:34 wtf is swype 02:31:25 the best OSK interface 02:31:39 how do i get that 02:31:51 iunno 02:32:14 it came preinstalled on this thing 02:32:34 oh good this thibg comrs bundled with anf i quote "advanced task killer 3" 02:32:47 3 versions of task killing 02:33:05 new innovations in shit i sgouldnt hace to do in the first place 02:34:32 etf this tuihg desny cone qih android narket hkw xo i get aps onto it 02:34:36 oh ny god 02:34:54 thisbiz nakijg me resllu appreciate ny iphobe keyboard 02:35:54 -!- androidgravisom has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:35:54 yeah this came with a decent application manager preinstalled. task killers are things that kill programs running in the background. you know, like operating system services :P 02:36:19 quintopia: i stand by my "shit i shouldn't have to do in the first place" assessment 02:36:56 quintopia: oh good, it comes with its very own application installer 02:37:08 can i just go to like google.com and get an androidmarket.ipk 02:37:13 i don't really know how this stuff works 02:37:35 this application installer is AD SUPPORTED holy shit 02:37:46 colloinkgravisom: you dont need a task killer. most apps have some way to kill them, and those that dont can be killed by the app manager (which is like any system monitor really) 02:38:05 quintopia: yeah, which is why it's the first thing in the appliaction grid thing :P 02:38:08 MOST IMPORTANT 02:38:26 wow this camera is the most washed out thing ever 02:38:40 i cant hardly tell its not greyscale 02:38:40 i bet its all in the softward 02:38:50 apply better filters 02:39:43 ok android market let's do this shit 02:39:51 this form factor is insane 02:39:52 it's like 02:39:57 30:9 02:40:24 hmmm 02:40:24 lul 02:40:30 is the android market an actual application 02:40:31 or just a website 02:40:44 both 02:40:55 ok 02:40:59 i'm not seeing the application part on the website 02:41:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:42:58 i cant find its real name 02:43:08 its just called Market v3.4.4 here 02:43:47 quintopia: ahahaha apparently uh 02:43:52 the devs of a device have to enter an agreement w/ google 02:43:53 to get it 02:43:55 "There's no access to the official Android Market built-in, but you can get apps from other app stores such as Handango or Opera Mobile Store. Most budget tablets don't have the official Android app store onboard because Google isn't too keen on certifying cheap kit." -- CNET 02:44:04 noiiiiiiice 02:44:14 googling "install android markaet" shows people putting it on ~unauthorised devices~ 02:44:18 is that easy i wonder... 02:44:22 gasp 02:44:57 quintopia: yeah ILLEGITIMATE ACTIVITIES 02:44:58 im rebel 02:45:11 But it's "3D". (In that it can play something something 3D over its HDMI out.) 02:45:13 application settings -> "Hidden google application", with lowercase "g", no description 02:45:16 should i turn it on 02:45:18 y/n 02:45:38 hmm 02:45:41 fizzie: also you have to buy your own hdmi cable to do that 02:45:46 party rock is in the house tonight 02:45:52 Butt of course. 02:45:56 and we gonna make you lose your mind 02:46:00 "To get the Android Market on this tablet click on settings, select applications and select hidden Google application. Go back to home screen and keep your finger on a empty space, an add to home screen pops up select widgets and select market icon , you can now sign in or make a new account by selecting the market icon on your home screen." 02:46:03 fizzie: holy shit 02:46:05 did they like 02:46:08 smuggle it on illegally 02:46:11 hidden by this setting 02:46:15 haha 02:46:19 that is hilarious 02:46:41 That's the awesomest if. 02:47:15 the answer is 02:47:16 yes 02:47:21 god bless america 02:48:42 im into the market 02:48:45 fuck yes hidden google application 02:48:51 how 02:48:54 do they get away with this 02:49:11 it looks like i have to keep this hideous widget on my homescreen to open it tho 02:49:46 Apparently the same setting exists on the "Ainol Novo 7 Advanced Tablet". 02:50:34 quintopia: whats good irc for the androod 02:50:59 androirc and andchat are the top two results obviously one of these must be the best per loic 02:51:07 i use irssi connectbot myself, but andchat is what most peeps use 02:51:16 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:51:27 hmm i think andchat is the one sgeo uses, maybe i'll go with androirc :) 02:51:30 or just 02:51:32 vnc in to this laptop 02:51:35 that would be the most practical 02:53:34 i love how 02:53:40 andchat asks me for the encoding to use 02:53:41 before like 02:53:42 letting me connect 02:53:43 or anything 02:54:49 -!- androidgravisom has joined. 02:54:53 DECIDE NOW AND FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE 02:55:07 sup 02:55:30 did you figure out where to get swype 02:55:39 can't i just rely on fizzie 02:55:45 also how do i like 02:55:48 go to my homescreen without quitting apps 02:55:54 i take it this is something this thing can do 02:55:58 that my ancient iphone can't 02:56:09 (I be sleep.) 02:56:22 damn 02:56:25 hit the home button 02:56:30 also i should probably charge this thing 02:56:31 -!- androidgravisom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:56:34 it keeps just sleeping 02:56:37 afterl ike 5 seconds 02:56:39 -!- androidgravisom has joined. 02:56:46 no man i just exited you 02:56:47 oh wahtever 02:56:50 *what 02:56:58 then the app sucks 02:57:59 This thibg doesnt zeem ti gace swype 02:58:08 Oh wait 03:00:05 ok i'm installing 03:00:06 the installer 03:00:51 ok i've installed the installer 03:00:53 now i'll install it 03:00:56 quintopia: this better be worth it 03:02:15 colloinkgravisom: it is, i think, once you get used to it. make sure you size it as small as you can though, cuz it gets hard to use when you make it bigger. 03:02:32 also, turn on the line thing that shows where you've swiped 03:02:34 well this screen is only 7 inches so 03:02:37 it couldn't get very big. 03:02:42 i'm gonna go through the tutorial thing 03:02:49 i take it that i basically just draw out the letters i want right? 03:02:54 that's what a precursory googling suggested 03:02:55 like 03:02:57 draw a line 03:02:59 on a keyboard 03:03:02 or sth 03:03:02 yep 03:03:08 one line per word 03:03:14 -!- cheater has joined. 03:03:22 type out words that arent in the dictionary and add them 03:04:12 -!- androidgravisom| has joined. 03:04:17 -!- androidgravisom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:35 this tutorial isnt interactive at all :( 03:05:00 sad day 03:06:11 Swyping all the way 03:06:25 Oh this ain't bad at all 03:06:38 Wow 03:07:14 This is nicer than the iPhone keyboard 03:08:16 I think I'll install an SSH thing now 03:08:46 Thanks for the recommendation 03:08:58 Re swype 03:09:15 Only have speech Oh neat test speech 03:09:23 Oh Neek eight speed 03:09:27 -!- cheater has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:09:31 Only because speech recognition 03:09:42 I have a few cases use here 03:09:51 I would have 03:10:00 A field today 03:10:09 If Susie was 03:10:19 Yeah 03:10:32 quintopia: behold my attempt at saying "Oh neat, it has speech recognition." and "I'd have a field day if fizzie was here." 03:10:36 well, attempts, plural 03:14:01 luls 03:14:15 i use the speech recognition to write texts sometimes 03:14:19 always works well for me 03:14:26 but fails miserably for my sister 03:14:28 so 03:14:31 it seems to want en-US input 03:14:33 i'm just too british 03:14:47 probably, error exists between chair and mobile device 03:15:57 awesome, ssh'd in 03:16:22 quintopia: is there a way to tell swype not to assume im typing dictionary words into this shell :P 03:16:50 just type on it like a regular keyboard if you dont want to use dictionary words 03:16:55 fair enough 03:17:00 i guess it relies pretty crucially on the dictionary 03:17:14 btw i dont think i can set the size of it 03:17:15 or at least 03:17:17 i don't know how to 03:17:24 yeah. read the patent for it. it's pretty fascinating. 03:18:36 -!- elliott has joined. 03:18:38 sup 03:18:58 androidgravisom ismyhome 03:19:00 oh 03:19:08 no surprising 03:19:09 er 03:19:15 autospacing 03:19:23 in Connecticut 03:19:26 LOL 03:19:30 connecticut :D 03:19:31 connectbot 03:20:13 so is android 2.3 the newest thing 03:21:59 -!- elliott has quit (Client Quit). 03:22:09 -!- androidgravisom| has quit (Quit: Bye). 03:23:06 i'm so excited that this thing comes with flash 03:23:10 i get to experience the 03:23:13 mobile flash experienec firsthand 03:24:50 -!- cheater has joined. 03:27:16 * colloinkgravisom decides to torture the flash player 03:34:29 -!- casa has joined. 03:35:57 colloinkgravisom, you have a new phone? What brand/model? 03:37:39 Vorpal: tablet actually. it's a "scroll excel" 7" tablet which is under suspicion of being THE CHEAPEST But! Hey, 1 ghzes! 03:38:05 I never heard of either the brand or the model 03:38:09 Vorpal: it's so legit that the android market app, which google only licenses for use to more respectable models, is accessible by turning on a setting named "Hidden google [sic] application" and tapping in a blank space on the home screen 03:38:15 Completely Legal(tm) 03:38:20 -!- casa has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 03:38:29 colloinkgravisom, wtf 03:38:40 it's amazing :D 03:38:49 colloinkgravisom, so is the hardware bad too? 03:38:58 it's... not that bad, really 03:39:02 i mean 03:39:05 it's nothing amazing 03:39:07 and the form factor is a bit weird 03:39:14 but the screen is basically ok, the plastic quality is decent 03:39:24 what is the form factor then? 03:39:39 oh man, you can get svg antivirus for android. that's what i've always wanted: a mobile i have to worry about viruses with 03:39:55 Vorpal: http://image.ebuyer.com/UK/P600-0294945-06.jpg 03:39:59 svg? 03:40:00 it's either very portrait or very widescreen 03:40:00 avg? 03:40:02 depending on your pov 03:40:04 7" 03:40:06 and er yeah avg 03:40:16 7" is small for a tablet 03:40:22 it is like... a very large phone? 03:40:29 Naked Scanner Free - "See through your friends' clothes!!! Trick your friends taht you can see them naked!!! Sexy girl, man and fat!!! included." 03:40:32 and damn that looks sheep 03:40:36 what an amazing app 03:40:43 colloinkgravisom, what? really? 03:40:47 that is pre-installed!? 03:40:49 yes :D 03:40:51 er 03:40:52 no 03:40:54 that would be amazing 03:40:56 oh 03:40:56 this isj ust in the store thing 03:40:59 oh 03:41:02 Vorpal: it's less cheap than it looks there actually, the plastic is actually black 03:41:05 colloinkgravisom, in the official android store? 03:41:10 yes 03:41:12 the market thing is kinda lawless 03:41:14 i mean 03:41:20 compared to apple's at least 03:41:25 well yes 03:41:36 the apple one is draconian though 03:41:48 ShakeBoobs. only description is "shake the girls' boobs". these are in like the top 30 apps 03:41:58 along with twitter and opera and all kinds of respectable things 03:42:04 ouch 03:42:07 poor google 03:42:30 colloinkgravisom, the obvious solution would be to add a safesearch style option 03:42:43 or is there one and you turned it off? 03:42:48 what, and miss out on ShakeBoobs? 03:42:51 i haven't switched any settings 03:43:01 colloinkgravisom, I meant to have that as an /option/. 03:43:07 oh man. angry birds. do i dare. do i dare find out what all the fuss is about 03:43:07 for those so inclined 03:43:15 colloinkgravisom, angry birds is old 03:43:19 old and popular 03:43:30 colloinkgravisom, I played that with snes light guns once iirc at a friend's place 03:43:33 god that was ages ag 03:43:34 what 03:43:34 ago* 03:43:39 with 03:43:41 snes light guns? 03:43:43 yes 03:43:48 i'm sceptical of this claim 03:43:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_gun 03:43:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Birds 03:43:56 i'm talking about this thing 03:44:05 oh that one 03:44:15 colloinkgravisom, I confused it with that duck hunting game 03:44:16 XD 03:44:18 lol 03:44:19 birds 03:44:29 duck hunt i think you mean 03:44:31 yes 03:44:42 duck hunt, played that with snes light gun once 03:44:47 the accuracy was /terrible/ 03:44:55 vorpal 03:44:59 yes? 03:45:00 should i install minecraft pocket edition 03:45:02 ironically 03:45:17 oh! there's a free demo 03:45:20 colloinkgravisom, I saw a guy at university running the free demo version of it on a phone 03:45:22 i don't even have to wallow in indecision then 03:45:25 well, it looked like classic 03:45:30 with somewhat different blocks 03:45:35 and the controls were super-awkward 03:45:42 yeah but you know what they say about classic 03:45:44 that's one step away from classique 03:45:54 colloinkgravisom, classic on /computer/ is far far better 03:46:03 oh man, it makes the same menu sounds. 03:46:09 NOSTALGIA YO. 03:46:12 heh 03:46:14 i have to say though 03:46:20 the swype keyboard thing is better than the iphone's 03:46:23 ofc it's a third-party app but still :P 03:46:27 swype? 03:46:43 how the hell do you pronounce that? 03:46:45 "swipe" 03:46:46 as swipe? 03:46:48 ah 03:46:51 yeah you basically draw a line on a qwerty keyboard 03:46:53 to type the word 03:47:01 it works better than it sounds like it would 03:47:08 what if the letters are at different ends of the keyboard? 03:47:12 They should make it with physical keyboard 03:47:15 Vorpal: you just move across and it figures it out 03:47:36 lmao this pocket edition has the biome sidegrass bug 03:47:42 and it's a completely different codebase 03:47:44 colloinkgravisom, what happens if there are multiple alternatives 03:47:44 wtg mojang 03:47:56 Vorpal: you can select afterwards, but i've not had to yet 03:47:59 colloinkgravisom, how do you know it is a completely different codebase? 03:48:00 in my few minutes of use, admittedly 03:48:04 and because they've said so 03:48:08 I mean sure some stuff, like the input code, has to be different 03:48:10 oh 03:48:12 that is insane 03:48:18 not really 03:48:27 minecraft proper could hardly run well on today's phones 03:48:31 well okay 03:48:34 also: the codebase sucks :P 03:48:39 well yes 03:49:06 oh it's classic but blocks take time to destroy 03:49:10 what a neato innovation!! 03:49:12 * Sgeo intends to sleep tonight 03:49:19 ah. some blocks are not in the demo version. 03:49:38 Vorpal: hey, it has a unified sp/mp architecture 03:49:41 that's gotta count for something 03:49:47 colloinkgravisom, anyway the issue with the side grass is that to solve it you either need like two extra triangles per side slightly in front of the brown area, or you drop the tricks you can do with monochromatic textures 03:49:50 (you just flick "server is visible" on from within a game to let people join, it seems) 03:49:58 wait, those trick won't work anyway 03:50:08 because minecraft doesn't use modern shaders 03:50:15 "scanning for wifi games" wtf is this only for local network games 03:50:15 it is the old stateful opengl iirc 03:50:30 colloinkgravisom, P2P minecraft? 03:50:32 oh you can turn on fancy graphics it seems 03:50:56 colloinkgravisom, on a phone the controls where /really/ awkward 03:51:03 colloinkgravisom, might be better on a larger pad 03:51:14 and of course accuracy with touch screen is terrible compared to mouse 03:51:22 might be a question of how used you are to it 03:51:25 it's just minecraft, you don't need supreme accuracy 03:51:26 but also I have big fingers 03:51:27 but the controls are 03:51:28 eeeeeeh 03:51:32 as already established 03:51:48 quintopia: is that cyanogen thing i've heard about applicable to this device 03:51:54 i really don't know what i'm doing 03:51:54 at all 03:51:59 colloinkgravisom, look, my hand can if I stretch it reach from ctrl to enter on a full sized PC keyboard 03:52:10 as in the far ctrl 03:52:16 i love how blatantly this thing's look is ripping off the ipad 03:52:19 like 03:52:33 it looks worse designed 03:52:40 at least it looks like a matte surface 03:52:43 it has the black front/whiteish back thing, and the same kind of name positioning on the back 03:52:51 it's not 03:52:52 glossy 03:52:56 glossy and fingerprint-lovin' 03:53:01 ouch 03:53:05 glossy sucks 03:53:08 due to fingerprints 03:53:18 that's why you get an oreo-phobic one! 03:53:28 colloinkgravisom, I assume it isn't that? 03:53:35 due to being like the cheap one 03:53:38 naturally 03:53:44 "break the bricks" what an exciting name for a breakout clone 03:54:17 colloinkgravisom, if you want to play some good breakout I can recommend lbreakout2 on linux 03:54:22 iirc it is in ubuntu repos and so on 03:54:24 i've played lbreakout2 03:54:26 ah 03:54:30 colloinkgravisom, and you liked it? 03:54:34 this is in the android store tho 03:54:37 Vorpal: it's nice enough 03:54:39 heh 03:54:41 i'm not the biggest breakout fanatic 03:54:57 my favourite thing about android has to be that they've like 03:54:57 colloinkgravisom, I like the addon level sets with all-explosive tiles and so on 03:55:08 eliminated the whole "quit application"/"opened application" stuff 03:55:12 or like all "add the drop-through protection/extra ball" 03:55:13 and everyone immediately jumped to resurrect it by 03:55:16 (a) putting quit buttons in their apps 03:55:18 the results look so amazing 03:55:22 (b) inventing apps for the sole purpose of killing other apps 03:55:46 colloinkgravisom, well, having a task manager can be useful sometimes 03:55:49 like if an application hangs 03:56:00 "copy music to your phone with a USB cable" really now, really. 03:56:10 Does it have Astrolog? 03:56:11 colloinkgravisom, can't you just use bluetooth for it? 03:56:18 Vorpal: maybe, that's just what it says 03:56:24 colloinkgravisom, on the box or what? 03:56:30 when i open "Music" 03:56:33 Does it have GPS? 03:56:38 no 03:56:38 oh 03:56:38 to both 03:56:42 well it might have gps but i doubt it 03:56:54 colloinkgravisom, does it have tilt sensors? 03:57:11 well it can tell when i'm holding it sideways 03:57:14 so... maybe? 03:57:16 colloinkgravisom, be careful when playing pinball then! 03:57:32 heh 03:58:05 colloinkgravisom, can you explain why in http://image.ebuyer.com/UK/P600-0294945-06.jpg it says "Outputs 3D videos" on the computer screen photo on the box? 03:58:15 it doesn't make any sense 03:58:17 because it outputs 3d videos 03:58:24 colloinkgravisom, huh? how? 03:58:27 two cameras? 03:58:36 hdmi, one presumes 03:58:48 colloinkgravisom, so uh... what? 03:58:56 isn't that up to the video? 03:59:11 as long as your monitor supports whatever 3D glass technology you want to use 03:59:14 presumably it's just "has support for whatever hdmi protocol is used for 3d" 03:59:23 hm 03:59:41 HDMI is horrible IMO. Long live DVI and DP 04:00:00 what's wrong with hdmi 04:00:01 They are all horrible. NTSC is better 04:00:08 colloinkgravisom, all the DRM stuff 04:00:18 does anybody actually force you to use that 04:00:21 zzo38, that isn't a cable type 04:00:24 Make NTSC stereovision protocol consisting of a synchronization signal followed by alternating frames for each channel 04:00:27 colloinkgravisom, but it has support it 04:00:28 yes. do that 04:00:30 do what zzo says 04:00:31 support for it* 04:00:34 Vorpal: so does x86 04:00:42 any sufficiently generic platform has drm support 04:00:53 colloinkgravisom, well this one isn't generic and it has support for it 04:00:59 colloinkgravisom: yes probably 04:01:03 so? 04:01:18 colloinkgravisom, so too tired to argue about it further 04:01:32 hdmi has pretty obviously already won anyawy 04:01:35 at least against dvi/dp 04:01:48 colloinkgravisom, depends on where. Not for computer monitors 04:01:56 for TV yes 04:01:59 Yes, HDMI is bad due to DRM, but other thing too 04:02:10 -!- Klisz has joined. 04:02:11 DVI is the best one IMO 04:02:12 So I just use VGA or NTSC 04:02:23 18:39 < monqy> i remember the subject of sour cereal came up in a discussion with kallisti and i searched for sour cereal and found sourcereal but I can't remember anything more 04:02:24 zzo38, problem is they don't give digital signal 04:02:27 ha 04:02:28 haaaaaaaahaaaaaa 04:02:34 haahahahaha elliott I WIN 04:02:43 * kallisti WILL TAKE HIS CASH PRIZE NOW 04:02:49 zzo38, anyway the refresh rate of NTSC is lower than that of PAL isn't it? 04:03:37 Vorpal: Yes it is true they don't give digital signal. And because of that, they cannot mix it up. If the signal is defective it *must* be converted using time base correction or whatever else is wrong with it 04:03:51 zzo38, eh? 04:04:01 zzo38, the problem with it not being digital is that you get noise 04:04:04 which is annoying 04:04:16 Yes, that is true; you can get noise. 04:04:23 zzo38, which is utterly annoying 04:04:36 thus why I use digital connectors for my computer monitor 04:04:44 The other way to fix digital protocols is to simplify it so much that nobody can implement DRM or encryption or whatever because that would violate the protocol and everything 04:04:56 I doubt that works 04:05:02 lord knows violating the protocol has stopped people before 04:05:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:05:06 anyway there is analogue encryption protocols 04:05:29 Use trademarks to prevent people from violating the protocol 04:05:36 doubtful it would work 04:05:52 Because, then if they do it wrong, they are not allowed to claim it is a proper cable/protocol! 04:05:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:06:13 anyway my GPU has outputs for all the major monitor connections 04:06:36 DVI-I, DVI-D, HDMI, 2xDP 04:06:37 iirc 04:06:46 and an DVI-I<->VGA converter 04:07:19 1x DP 04:07:25 so 5 connectors in total 04:07:37 I believe it can support up to 5 concurrent displays too 04:07:39 never tested 04:09:40 christ 04:09:42 look at the time 04:09:47 yes? 04:09:49 05:09 04:09:52 colloinkgravisom, what about it 04:09:54 -!- kallisti_ has joined. 04:09:58 why aren't i sleeping 04:10:08 colloinkgravisom, sleep schedules are for weenies 04:10:42 i had one going for days! 04:10:48 :D 04:10:56 colloinkgravisom, you lost it 04:11:01 colloinkgravisom: I still think sugar with sour sugar stuff would actually be delicious. 04:11:07 s/sugar/cereal/ 04:11:21 excellent excellent yes 04:12:11 because sour cereal is spices it's important to get the right amount. 04:13:14 you mean sour grass basically? 04:13:16 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:13:25 kallisti_, ^ 04:13:32 Vorpal: WOAH 04:13:35 * kallisti_ BLIND 04:13:36 kallisti_, what? 04:13:37 "Cereals are grasses (members of the monocot family Poaceae, also known as Gramineae)[1] cultivated for the edible components of their grain (botanically, a type of fruit called a caryopsis), composed of the endosperm, germ, and bran." 04:13:43 says wikipedia 04:13:44 oh, lol 04:13:47 ... 04:13:58 I thought you were pinging me to inform me my other nick had disconnected. 04:14:00 oh you interpreted it like THAT 04:14:22 yes it's strange to receive a "^" before the thing that you're informing me of. 04:14:26 so since it is grass I guess you can get high on cereal? 04:14:28 since it typically... points at the thing 04:14:36 Vorpal: ....... -_- 04:14:37 yes it's strange to receive a "^" before the thing that you're informing me of. 04:14:38 wrong 04:14:42 you mean sour grass basically? 04:14:42 * kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:14:42 kallisti_, ^ 04:14:57 oh 04:15:00 you just disconnected in between 04:15:07 kallisti_, so yes you are BLIND 04:15:22 and, no, I don't mean DAT FIRE ASS NASTY DANK SHIT. 04:15:31 heh? 04:15:38 I mean like sour sugar. 04:15:50 what? 04:15:52 quintopia: so would cyanaanaoynoaynoanygen get me all the google apps this thing is too ashamed to include 04:16:01 kallisti_, since when is cereal sugar? 04:16:04 Vorpal: in sweden do they have sour canady? 04:16:26 also in sweden, are certain cereals (like the cold cereal you eat in a bowl with milk) coated in sugar? 04:16:27 kallisti_, I think so? I don't like it. Generally in the form of rather sour jelly thingies 04:16:38 now imagine, you put the sour sugary stuff from those candies 04:16:42 on some kind of cereal 04:16:42 kallisti_, you mean like muesli? 04:16:46 ... 04:16:49 SO UNAMERICAN 04:16:52 but yes similar. 04:17:29 muesli is generally all-organic fair-trade stuff without sugar 04:17:33 AMERICAN MUESLI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frosted_Flakes 04:17:38 WE PUT SUGAR IN EVERYTHING OKAY 04:17:40 THIS IS TRADITION 04:17:46 kallisti_, this is very strange to me 04:17:58 kallisti_, we only put sugar where it belongs 04:18:12 no it's actually really good, but also we have unsugary cereals and those are good as well. 04:18:16 kallisti_, we don't get quite as fat either 04:18:26 colloinkgravisom: cyanogenmod is a desktop environment sort of thingy. a home screen/app screen replacement? widget dock? i've not used it. 04:18:37 but i think the answer is "no" 04:19:16 Vorpal: that's because you expend immense amounts of energy keeping your body warm in the lifeless arctic wasteland tundra that you decided to take residence in. 04:19:44 kallisti_, anyway I'm sure sugar can be put on most things it is just that it probably a) tastes horrible in many cases b) is unhealthy in most cases 04:20:02 well we don't actually put sugar on everything 04:20:14 but... that's not as incredibly inaccurate as it should be. 04:20:14 kallisti_, do you know what the gulf stream is? 04:20:17 yes. 04:20:31 kallisti_, that is why Sweden is not a "lifeless arctic wasteland tundra" 04:20:39 kallisti_, we get heated up by it 04:21:18 kallisti_, cold yes, but not tundra 04:21:59 afaik there are no tundra areas in Sweden unless you count some high altitude mountain areas with glaciers. But then Switzerland has those too, and it is much further south 04:22:24 Vorpal: .. 04:22:46 kallisti_, and I live much further south 04:22:47 I'm just going to continue saying ridiculous things and Vorpal is going to continue believing that I mean it. 04:22:58 colloinkgravisom: cyanogenmod is a desktop environment sort of thingy. a home screen/app screen replacement? widget dock? i've not used it. 04:23:01 kallisti_, the ground isn't even frozen today 04:23:03 quintopia: googling says yr very wrong 04:23:05 it is like +2C 04:23:12 kallisti_, it is a very warm winter this year 04:23:18 colloinkgravisom: ok 04:23:24 Vorpal: same here in fact. 04:23:28 kallisti_, I take everything serious unless otherwise noted. 04:23:32 quintopia: it's a rom apparently 04:23:40 right now it's 48 degrees. 04:23:46 kallisti_, what unit? 04:23:53 last year at this time it was below freezing 04:23:59 kallisti_, I accept SI units and celcius 04:24:10 that means I'm fine with Kelvin 04:24:26 !insanetemp 48 04:24:34 really? 04:24:48 colloinkgravisom, what was the convert tool command? 04:25:00 to convert from insane temperature 04:25:04 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:25:09 Vorpal: Celsius, obviously. I'm boiling alive. 04:25:16 in winter. 04:25:25 kallisti_, come on that is not boiling. Boiling is 100 C 04:25:27 !sanetemp 48 04:25:38 48 F is 8.8 C 04:25:43 ah 04:25:43 yeah 04:25:52 which is insanely warm for this time of year 04:26:05 also the problem with all these units for temperature is that they don't even share a zero 04:26:07 compared to usual, which is still pretty warm compared to most temperate climates. 04:26:18 that means it is actually convert and add 04:26:25 as in, not just a scaling factor 04:26:59 both a scaling factor and a translation 04:27:07 the problem with all these units for temperature is all these units for temperature 04:27:13 that's the only problem 04:27:21 hm translation sounds so weird in 1D 04:27:32 Vorpal: use 2D then 04:27:35 i'm hungry but i should really sleep. help. 04:27:36 quintopia, really K is the only sane one 04:27:40 quintopia, 2D temperature? 04:27:42 lol 04:27:52 colloinkgravisom: eat and then go to sleep. porbelm sloved 04:28:03 kallisti_, how does that help 04:28:07 kallisti_: it's too early man 04:28:09 i'd end up going to bed at 04:28:12 double bad o'clock 04:28:14 Vorpal: i'm trying to find the multiplier in projective geometry 04:28:14 instead of the current 04:28:16 bad o'clock 04:28:35 its easy for C to F 04:28:47 colloinkgravisom: sleep, so that your metabolism slows down, and then wake up in the morning at not so bad o' clock and eat a hearty English breakfast 04:28:50 [9/5,32] 04:29:01 quintopia, hm what is the matrix for it? Can't you just do it in x and w with w as the homogeneous coordinate? 04:29:12 or is that what you did? 04:29:16 yeah 04:29:23 right 04:29:24 just put 1 as the second coord 04:29:27 temp as the first 04:29:40 -!- DCliche has joined. 04:29:42 quintopia, I /am/ familiar with OpenGL, 1 as second coord is obvious 04:29:52 F to C is [5/9,-160/9] 04:29:56 Vorpal: it solves his problem but demonstrating that it's silly because eating is not very time consuming. 04:30:15 s/but/by/ 04:30:16 kallisti_, depends on what you eat 04:30:43 kallisti_: anything is time consuming when its 4:30 am 04:30:44 kallisti_, some marine shelled animals who's name I forgot can take fairly long to eat 04:30:47 and to prepare 04:30:50 hurray, it's only multiplication now 04:30:53 :P 04:31:01 quintopia, it is a matrix multiplication however 04:31:08 -!- Klisz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:31:13 quintopia, anyway it is a division too, to get the useful value out 04:31:25 you need to divide x with w surely 04:31:26 yeah, but it's a dot product...the easiest kind of matrix multiplication! 04:31:29 unless I missed something 04:31:49 no, no division 04:31:51 I just ate this http://www.bk.com/en/us/menu-nutrition/category1/menu-item1/index.html 04:31:55 notice how it actually has sugar in it. 04:31:57 a single number results from the dot product 04:31:58 quintopia, anyway don't you need a 2x2 matrix? 04:32:00 they put sugar, in hamburgers. 04:32:08 quintopia, oh 04:32:10 right 04:32:11 I see 04:32:19 quintopia, I guess that is a special case for this size? 04:32:27 nope 04:32:40 dot products always give magnitudes :P 04:32:40 quintopia, I'm used to doing M*V and then divide each component in V by the last one. 04:32:50 I guess that would work here too 04:33:41 quintopia, I don't know why dot product work here. But that makes it very convenient 04:34:06 works* 04:34:27 it works because that is what homogeneous coordinates were designed to do... 04:34:44 quintopia, I have to say I only used them for opengl 04:34:49 ah 04:35:12 quintopia, so my knowledge of them is limited to what I need for 3D graphics 04:35:19 or 2D 04:35:29 well 04:35:35 you can obviously use a 3x3 matrix for xyw 04:35:40 let me ever know if you get into quantum computers ;) 04:35:53 quintopia, I hope not. I don't understand quantum 04:35:54 my syntax is failing as well 04:36:24 Vorpal: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/world_according_to_americans.png 04:36:49 kallisti_, I doubt most americans know the shapes that well 04:37:01 that's the joke 04:37:15 Vorpal: are you serious 04:37:18 oh right, I didn't read the text at the top 04:37:37 colloinkgravisom, come on, those islands in the Mediterranean? I couldn't tell you their placement 04:37:54 things i've learned today: the best way to get Vorpal to miss that you're mocking him is to do it directly 04:38:14 colloinkgravisom, I'm locked into serious-mode 04:38:54 though I could tell you more about the European countries, and to some degree elsewhere as well 04:39:11 huh, ssh uses elliptic curve by default these days 04:39:38 yeah 04:40:08 wait is "boxing day" not an American term? 04:40:14 I thought that was generic English 04:40:19 as in both American and Brittish 04:40:25 and probably NZ, AU and so on too 04:40:33 it's not an American thing, no. 04:40:44 In the United States, where the day is often known simply as "the day after Christmas", business owners give gifts to people who make deliveries. Although the traditional gift is a fifth of Scotch, because fewer people drink these days the trend is towards non-alcoholic gifts.[5][6] It was formerly more widely observed in the United States, and was more widely known as Boxing Day.[7][8] 04:40:47 kallisti_, what do you call that day then?> 04:40:49 s/>// 04:41:11 what do you call march 28th 04:41:18 whats that 04:41:20 In the United States, where the day is often known simply as "the day after Christmas", business owners give gifts to people who make deliveries. Although the traditional gift is a fifth of Scotch, because fewer people drink these days the trend is towards non-alcoholic gifts.[4][5] It was formerly more widely observed in the United States, and was more widely known as Boxing Day. 04:41:23 colloinkgravisom: The 28th of March. 04:41:29 colloinkgravisom, trying to remember the significance of that day 04:41:35 i call it mar 28 04:41:39 it's shorter 04:41:42 colloinkgravisom, but probably yyyy-03-28 04:41:43 :P 04:41:44 kallisti_, colloinkgravisom: Never heard of such a tradition. 04:41:52 pikhq: neither have I. 04:42:15 I'm only aware of Boxing Day as a UK thing. 04:42:30 colloinkgravisom: uh... March 28th? 04:43:26 kallisti_, how well do you know the world map? 04:43:33 not very. 04:43:43 maps are boring 04:43:53 monqy, depends on the projection 04:43:59 I can successfully associate countries with continents, which is uncommon for Americans I think. 04:44:37 I can't think of a map I'm any good at 04:44:50 speaking of projections: https://www.xkcd.com/977/ 04:45:07 also in North American and Eurasia I can place a number of countries, with some countries being associated to general regions without the exact placement known. 04:45:22 south american is a little fuzzy. Africa is very fuzzy. 04:45:28 Australia is easy. :P 04:45:43 kallisti_, well I can do that with ease. Might miss out on some smaller ones. Like if they are above AU or in the Caribbean area 04:45:58 * pikhq likes the Dymaxion projection. 04:46:23 pikhq, I prefer projecting onto a globe 04:46:35 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:46:43 Vorpal: I find your patronizing attitude annoying. 04:47:07 kallisti_, I did not intend to do that 04:47:27 kallisti_, I was just stating what I believe is a fact. I did not intend to offend you 04:48:16 offended isn't really the word. 04:48:18 Vorpal: That's not a projection, that's just a scale model. 04:48:27 And, yes, that is preferable by far. 04:48:32 I know 04:48:51 pikhq, anyway it is an almost-identity projection onto a sphere 04:49:03 pikhq, where did it say the projection had to be onto a flat surface 04:49:11 dude you guys suck mercator projection is the best. If you need any other visual aid your MIND IS SMALL 04:49:39 "A map projection is any method of representing the surface of a sphere or other three-dimensional body on a plane." 04:49:41 Vorpal: That's generally implied in the term "projection" when referring to maps... 04:49:52 pikhq, which one is the equvitriangular one now again? 04:50:03 Vorpal: I find your patronizing attitude annoying. 04:50:05 join the club 04:50:06 Equvitriangular? 04:50:14 pikhq, eh equvirectangular 04:50:18 mixed that up 04:50:30 Oh, equirectangular. 04:51:09 There's a few sorts. 04:51:30 Plate carrée? 04:51:34 perhaps 04:51:43 Astrolog includes a map of the world, including Mollewide, and also includes a globe of the world, and can plot the equatorial positions of planets and their ascendant/descendant on the world map, and can plot the constellations on a map and on a globe 04:51:47 pikhq, I was thinking of the one found in hugin the panorama tool 04:51:53 it is just called equirectangular 04:52:18 not sure which one that is 04:52:27 That's a class of projections. 04:52:36 It can also draw ley lines on the world map 04:52:39 pikhq, hm 04:52:49 pikhq, what about a plain cylindrical projection? 04:53:03 as in straight out onto a cylinder which is then unrolled 04:53:27 Class; Gall-Peters being a typical one. 04:53:31 hm 04:53:36 hugin is too imprecise 04:53:52 Miller Cylindrical is listed there 04:54:05 I wonder what a Triplane projection is... 04:54:06 (the projection there can vary based on aspect ratio and preferred parallels) 04:54:40 map projections: the most interesting thing ever. 04:54:41 It doesn't include the tropics though. 04:54:45 -!- colloinkgravisom has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:55:06 kallisti_, it is pretty interesting yes 04:55:14 Also, there is one map with positions of planets shown, the one without that has no equator either. 04:55:24 kallisti_, wait you are joking. You said you preferred Mercator 04:55:41 indeed 04:55:58 I like to imagine antarctica as this huge mass of land larger than everything. 04:56:10 pikhq, btw I don't understand dymaxion 04:56:12 how does it work 04:57:22 But it ought to include the tropics, because the tropics are the declination of the beginning of the corresponding astrological signs on the ecliptic 04:57:34 Vorpal: approximate the globe onto a polyhedron 04:57:38 then unfold it. 04:57:41 I see 04:58:08 zzo38, why would anyone in here care about astrology? 04:58:17 it is pointless 04:58:24 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined. 04:58:26 and doesn't worek 04:58:27 work* 04:58:55 "He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias." 04:58:58 loool 04:59:03 north, just a cultural artifact, man. 04:59:31 kallisti_, anyway map projections are interesting. Consider if you have a texture and want to project it onto a sphere. You will get different size on the pixels in different places 04:59:47 kallisti_, well it is 04:59:49 Vorpal: The astrological signs are really a unit of measurement on the ecliptic. Cancer=90 degrees, Capricorn=270 degrees. And possibly you know about the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn on the world map? 05:00:14 kallisti_, there is absolutely no reason you couldn't paint the other end of the compass red 05:00:31 zzo38, yes but they don't really interest me 05:01:23 pikhq: dymaxion is good. 05:02:02 yeah it is 05:02:10 I like the butterfly projection too 05:02:12 soo pretty 05:02:21 I never heard of it before I saw that xkcd though 05:02:31 -!- DCliche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:05:00 If you say people born under this sign are like this and with that sign should take advice like that, that is obviously nonsense; but astrological signs by themself are a valid units of measurement, although not very good because they make it hard to add and subtract. 05:06:09 (But, then, the months on the calendar can also make it hard to add and subtract, in mostly the same way that astrological signs are hard to add and subtract) 05:06:29 Good ol' Buckminster Fuller. 05:06:43 Yes! This is true!! Did you know that? 05:07:31 zzo38: Yeah, I actually was aware that the astrological signs did have that basis. 05:09:03 So now you can understand the tropics on the map, too. 05:09:05 months are silly 05:09:10 I prefer year-day 05:10:20 Another way is to use Julian day numbers (unrelated to the Julian calendar). 05:14:53 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com). 05:16:30 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 05:27:31 challenge: invent a map projection that looks like a penis, and write a huge paper about it to convince people that it's actually not penis shaped it just LOOKS that way. 05:27:53 bonus points if it's actually useful and accurate on many different measurements. 05:29:39 I would say such thing would be bad (at least, I would hate it and so would many people, but do so if you want to anyways I don't care) if it isn't actually useful and accurate on many different measurements. But if it is useful in these uses, then yes try these challenge see what happen you might make good thing. 05:31:36 kallisti_, oh the zzoian grammar there 05:33:14 tthere is absolutely no way a penis-shaped map is going to be useful. 05:33:36 Yes, I also doubt it is ever going to be useful. 05:33:57 But it is possible, even in past, people said their airplane would never work but it work anyways. 05:34:03 lol 05:34:51 I have no intention to invent such a map projection or write such a paper. 05:35:15 (That is your problem, not mine.) 05:36:21 kallisti_, I suggest more equality between the sexes. Try a vagina-shaped one instead 05:37:09 kallisti_, there are way too many penis joke compared to vagina jokes 05:37:24 I doubt that will be useful either but still you can try if you want to do so. 05:37:36 I don't intend to try it 05:38:34 * Vorpal listens to some Greig 05:38:58 Op. 40 II. Sarabande: Andante 05:39:20 got this CD for xmas 05:39:22 quite nice 05:42:27 I wonder what wikipedia will be like in 100 years 05:43:54 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:52:41 Vorpal: It will come with the words "Don't Panic" in large, friendly letters. 05:54:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:00:55 -!- Darth_Cliche has changed nick to Klisz. 06:05:10 -!- PiRSquared17 has quit (Quit: will be back soon). 06:11:16 > text . join . zipWith (\x y -> '\ETX':x:y:[]) (cycle "0123456789") $ "I wish this would work" 06:11:17 0I1 2w3i4s5h6 7t8h9i0s1 2w3o4u5l6d7 8w9o0r1k 06:12:36 Yesterday, I was playing short D&D game session. My brother wasn't doing much during that session, I did most of the things. But still not much because it is short session. He did only fight a electric web and help me to pry a plate off of a door when I ask (at first I try doing it by hand but that doesn't work) 06:12:57 `haskell import Control.Monad; main = putStrLn . join . zipWith (\x y -> '\ETX':x:y:[]) (cycle "0123456789") $ "I wish this would work" 06:13:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: haskell: not found 06:13:10 !haskell import Control.Monad; main = putStrLn . join . zipWith (\x y -> '\ETX':x:y:[]) (cycle "0123456789") $ "I wish this would work" 06:13:19 :( 06:21:28 pikhq, hah 06:23:28 kallisti_, what do you expect it to do? 06:25:35 night 06:30:16 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:39:47 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 06:44:29 -!- PiRSquared17 has joined. 06:49:52 @tell Vorpal I expect it to do what it looks like it does, but lambdabot filters control codes. 06:49:52 Consider it noted. 06:57:49 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 07:08:20 -!- itidus21 has joined. 07:10:49 kallisti_: What are you trying to do? 07:11:37 spam beautiful rainbows. 07:11:43 ^rainbow like this! 07:11:43 like this! 07:11:54 Ah 07:12:14 I guess you could write your own little bot to do it 07:12:48 hello 07:12:54 :| 07:13:04 Just tried a simple script. Obviously did not work 07:14:08 ^rainbow PiRSquared17 PiRSquared17 07:14:08 PiRSquared PiRSquared 07:15:38 ^rainbow magi matio plakestic pawn jugliabita anked nium posin winita 07:15:38 magi matio plakestic pawn jugliabita anked nium posin winita 07:17:41 -!- PiRSquared17 has changed nick to PiRSquaredAway. 07:25:53 kallisti_: Did you try that in ghci? 07:32:35 no. 07:32:40 but I know it works. 07:32:43 because I tried it elsewhere. 07:32:55 (I already have my own little bot to do it) 07:33:49 aha 07:42:08 `paste bin/frink 07:42:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27399 07:42:28 `paste /hackenv/lib/frink 07:42:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.185 07:43:08 `frink miles -> km 07:43:20 25146/15625 (exactly 1.609344) 07:57:34 -!- kmc has joined. 08:03:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:05:36 I figured out another use of <>>= operator I made up, which is, like this: "Hello, World! The answer is 42." <>>= guard . (/= ' ') 08:05:54 And of course you can use it with any MonadPlus 08:09:05 So, <>>= can be used with IO monad and with list monad. It can also be used with other monads but I have not used <>>= with any others 08:10:44 -!- marapreykhus has joined. 08:10:53 Wait 08:10:57 -!- marapreykhus has changed nick to Ngevd. 08:10:59 Hello! 08:23:29 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:27:35 -!- NihilistDandy has changed nick to NihilistDandy|aw. 08:28:03 -!- Ngevd has joined. 08:29:14 Is there a name for the applicatives where the "optional" function is lossy? IO is one of them (error messages get lost), but list isn't. 08:30:35 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:38 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:40:40 -!- Ngevd has joined. 08:41:24 -!- Ngevd has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:51:10 23:49:32: `log .* 08:51:10 23:50:04: shuf: memory exhausted 08:51:11 hm 08:51:13 `log 08:51:23 2010-05-06.txt:18:43:36: Conservapedia was pretty funny back in the day. 08:51:43 `cat bin/log 08:51:47 ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi \ 08:52:30 ah so without an argument it chooses the file first? 08:53:49 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:54:05 technically shuf -n 1 should be implementable without memory overflow. 08:54:38 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:55:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:02:43 head: write error: Broken pipe 09:02:46 what's up with this.. 09:03:16 frink '$expr'| head -n $linelimit | head -c $charlimit 09:03:21 ceci n'est pas un pipe 09:03:25 note this is inside a perl qx 09:03:36 so the $'s are perl variables 09:04:11 is $expr escaped properly 09:05:02 oh wait write error 09:05:21 presumably head -c closes its end before head -n finishes reading? 09:05:35 hmmm yes that could be it. 09:05:49 but I don't know if it does.. 09:05:56 er 09:05:59 *writing 09:06:34 I'll try reversing them 09:06:37 in the pipeline 09:07:29 yes that fixed it. 09:07:47 oerjan: They probably haven't bothered with special cases; and "shuf" itself of course isn't. 09:08:22 it sounds really stupid for head to be sensitive to that though, given that it's going to do the exact same thing against it's incoming pipe 09:08:27 *its 09:09:52 ceci n'est pas une intelligence consciente 09:16:56 -!- jix has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:18:06 -!- jix has joined. 09:20:45 * kallisti_ thinks it would be nice if lists were overloaded in Haskell. 09:21:11 basically so that : and [] are typeclass methods and list literals/notation is overloaded to work with any kind of list-like structure. 09:21:19 of course it would break the whole :-is-capitalized thing 09:24:51 actually wait, no it wouldn't 09:25:13 er, yes it would. :P 09:25:19 if you wanted to continue using the convenient : notation. 09:25:27 otherwise you could just use a toList method. 09:25:39 but then all of Data.List still only works with linked lists. 09:26:30 * kallisti WILL TAKE HIS CASH PRIZE NOW 09:26:42 that's that toy money on top of the t-rex, right? 09:27:20 yes 09:31:29 I'm just going to continue saying ridiculous things and Vorpal is going to continue believing that I mean it. <-- sounds like a plan 09:38:32 -!- kallisti_ has changed nick to kallisti. 09:41:15 -!- Ngevd has joined. 09:41:21 Hello! 09:41:54 hi 09:42:25 morn du 09:49:38 !haskell import Control.Monad; main = putStrLn . join . zipWith (\x y -> '\ETX':x:y:[]) (cycle "0123456789") $ "I wish this would work" 09:49:49 ah no bot 09:50:17 No bot is better than bad bot, like the saying goes. 09:50:44 fungot: Are you a friend or a foe? 09:50:45 fizzie: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord 09:51:35 let that be a lesson to those who try stty erase h 09:52:24 > ord '\ETX' 09:52:24 3 09:53:25 Like this? 09:54:01 ^rainbow I think his version also used the color code 0, white. 09:54:01 I think his version also used the color code , white. 09:54:52 Heh, the 0 got lost there, since there was nothing separating it from the preceding number. 09:55:18 (The above only cycles 2..9 to avoid black too.) 09:56:33 3Test 09:56:51 Away to find the pot of gold at the end of 09:56:52 what's the background one 09:56:53 ^rainbow2 09:56:53 ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████ ...too much output! 09:57:14 You just put in ^CN,Mfoo 09:58:35 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 09:59:52 ^ul (( )( )):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 09:59:52 ...too much output! 10:01:24 ^ul (( )( )):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 10:01:24 ...too much output! 10:04:06 ^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 10:04:06 011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010 ...too much output! 10:05:45 -!- monqy has joined. 10:05:46 * oerjan wonders if those numbers show up for everyone 10:12:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has changed nick to int21h. 10:12:54 -!- int21h has changed nick to outbf. 10:13:27 -!- outbf has changed nick to movewd0c00004. 10:13:54 an assembly of nicks 10:16:00 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:23:56 -!- movewd0c00004 has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 11:15:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:19:23 -!- itidus20 has joined. 11:21:41 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:34:46 -!- Ngevd has joined. 11:36:48 -!- itidus20 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 11:39:16 Hello! 11:45:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:45:56 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:53:02 ^help 11:53:02 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 11:53:08 ^show rainbow2 11:53:08 ((0)(15)(14)(1)(2)(12)(11)(10)(3)(9)(8)(7)(5)(4)(13)(6))(~^:()SSa~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a~*~a*~(█)S:^):^ 11:53:43 ^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 11:53:43 011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! 11:54:06 What is that exactly? 12:13:00 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:32:08 > (ap (zipWith id . map (*)) id) [1..10] 12:32:10 [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100] 12:33:20 > map (ap (*)) [1..10] 12:33:21 No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (a -> a)) 12:33:21 arising from a use of `e_1110' ... 12:33:34 @hoogle (a -> a -> b) -> a -> b 12:33:34 Data.Foldable foldl1 :: Foldable t => (a -> a -> a) -> t a -> a 12:33:35 Data.Foldable foldr1 :: Foldable t => (a -> a -> a) -> t a -> a 12:33:35 Prelude foldl1 :: (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> a 12:33:48 @pl (\f x -> f x x) 12:33:48 join 12:33:52 You want join 12:33:53 > map (join (*)) [1..10] 12:33:54 [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100] 12:34:23 For the record, I am lagging, but I seem to be able to say things and read the logs 12:34:28 But not the chat? 12:34:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:34:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:35:53 My idea was weird and lame 12:37:01 > const (map (^2) [1..10]) "this does the same function" 12:37:02 [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100] 12:40:18 > map (^2) [1..10] --this does the same function 12:40:19 [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100] 12:42:15 I like my way of doing comments. 12:57:27 Madoka-Kaname: The Thue-Morse sequence: 0 1 10 1001 10010110 1001011001101001 and so on. At least that's what it looks like. 13:00:21 -!- derdon has joined. 13:00:46 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:03:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:03:35 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:03:53 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:07:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:07:01 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:16:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:16:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:17:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 13:17:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:19:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:25:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:26:25 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:44:27 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:45:17 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:47:56 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:50:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:51:43 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:01:10 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has joined. 14:01:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:59 -!- cheater has joined. 14:10:27 -!- iconmaster has joined. 14:19:41 -!- elliott has joined. 14:25:11 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:25:12 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 14:25:12 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:26:16 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:26:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:34:44 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:38:44 -!- cheater has joined. 14:43:36 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 14:43:49 > '\xFF' 14:43:50 '\255' 14:44:10 > 'elliott' 14:44:11 : 14:44:11 lexical error in string/character literal at chara... 14:44:32 its true, lambda. we dont have any location info 14:45:33 colloinkgravisom of hexham 14:45:36 -!- elliott has changed nick to colloinkgravisom. 14:45:38 that's totally location info 14:46:06 11:53:34: Any ideas for a Minecraft puzzle/adventure map? 14:46:06 11:53:53: Specifically the grand finalay of a long one 14:46:15 Taneb|Hovercraft: Dude. 14:46:20 Taneb|Hovercraft: That's not how you spell finale. 14:47:09 Yes but I didn't want to find the accent 14:47:19 There... is... no... accent? 14:47:35 04:58:55: "He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias." 14:47:35 04:58:58: loool 14:47:35 04:59:03: north, just a cultural artifact, man. 14:47:39 Is there not? 14:47:45 kallisti: Er, you do realise that north=up is as arbitrary as north=down? 14:47:45 yes there is. he totally speaks with an accent. 14:47:47 Wow, that changes EVERYTHING! 14:48:08 04:58:08: zzo38, why would anyone in here care about astrology? 14:48:09 04:58:17: it is pointless 14:48:09 04:58:26: and doesn't worek 14:48:09 04:58:27: work* 14:48:23 @tell Vorpal I think you will find there is not universal agreement about this in the channel. 14:48:24 Consider it noted. 14:48:32 zzo only knows 14:49:32 I hope Vorpla joins the channel and says something really either obvious or controversial straight away 14:49:36 *Vorpal 14:49:52 As in, says something straight away, not joins straight away 14:50:19 your modifier was correctly placed, and as such, your meaning was understood 14:50:28 -!- NihilistDandy|aw has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 14:50:42 I almost didn't understand me 14:50:48 07:42:08: `paste bin/frink 14:50:48 07:42:11: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27399 14:50:48 07:42:28: `paste /hackenv/lib/frink 14:50:48 07:42:31: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.185 14:50:50 `file lib/frink 14:50:53 lib/frink: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, not stripped 14:51:02 kallisti: It's compiled Java. 14:52:07 09:26:30: * kallisti WILL TAKE HIS CASH PRIZE NOW 14:52:07 09:26:42: that's that toy money on top of the t-rex, right? 14:52:11 @tell oerjan Yes. 14:52:12 Consider it noted. 14:52:31 `addquote fizzie: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord 14:52:32 colloinkgravisom: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp 14:52:35 779) fizzie: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord 14:55:36 fungot: :D 14:55:37 colloinkgravisom: am i that much bad. take up, boy; open't. so, now go with, do miscarrie, thou had'st bin resolute pompey 14:59:19 So, I finished my article for Bloux today finally. Now, for the implemenation. 14:59:19 iconmaster: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 15:00:05 hmm, looks fun 15:00:44 I still need to work on what logic sub-commands I will give the user 15:00:49 not too many, i think 15:04:36 -!- MDude has joined. 15:07:49 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:08:32 -!- MSleep has joined. 15:09:49 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:15:52 I played pinball game today, and I earned fifty-eight extra balls. The score reels only show five digits but I earned over one million points (it can display the score to you separately from the reels if you ask for game stat) 15:16:08 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has changed nick to Ngevd. 15:16:28 You're either much better at pinball than I am or have found a really broken machine 15:17:28 It is actually a computer game. Normally you also get 2 more extra balls for beating the high score, but I don't like that feature so I removed it. 15:20:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:21:01 is the topic in the channel in Latin? 15:21:01 Vorpal: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 15:21:27 Vorpal: I doubt it 15:21:28 colloinkgravisom said 32m 42s ago: I think you will find there is not universal agreement about this in the channel. 15:21:31 about what? 15:21:43 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-12-27#144808colloinkgravisom 15:21:44 The usefullness of astrology 15:22:02 ah 15:22:32 colloinkgravisom, apart from the people who are into esoterica I very much doubt anyone here seriously believe in astrology 15:22:45 -!- MDude has joined. 15:22:47 About whether or not astrology is pointless. Even if it is agreed that divination doesn't work, that doesn't necessarily mean astrology is full of solely completely useless and wrong data. 15:22:54 Vorpal: Feel free to continue digging your own hole after I try and nudge you out of it. 15:23:18 You have to dig a hole by hand please, not by tools 15:23:46 colloinkgravisom, I would have assumed that people here are too smart to believe it. But of course I may be wrong. 15:24:16 Vorpal: Is this what you think not digging yourself deeper looks like? 15:24:36 colloinkgravisom, I don't care about offending someone who believes in astrology. 15:25:00 Vorpal: My palm is now firmly welded to my face. 15:25:10 I don't believe it either; I know better than both the people who do believe in astrology and the people who argue against it saying the position of the sun is wrong or whatever. 15:25:17 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:25:54 colloinkgravisom, I was under the impression that a person in here who believed in astrology changed his mind? 15:25:55 (If you don't know better, I suggest you remove that userbox from your Wikipedia) 15:25:57 colloinkgravisom, good, that saves effort in future facepalming 15:26:40 Sgeo, who was that? 15:26:43 Sgeo: I don't know. But I do know that oerjan made some horoscope for the first message of Agora Nomic, but without really understanding any of it 15:27:23 They simply used the default settings, made a screenshot of the horoscope, and copied the interpretation text. 15:30:34 * colloinkgravisom wonders how long it'll take for Vorpal to feel stupid, decides it'll be forever. 15:34:05 (Some have suggested combining astrology with psychotherapy in a way that doesn't require any of its divinatory predictions to be correct.) 15:35:12 zzo38, I'm somewhat suspicious of that claim, but I lack the knowledge of what they are suggesting to make any sort of more precise statement about that. 15:36:39 As one person replied to Steiner (1945:210) when asked why she goes to an astrologer with her tropubles instead of to a psychologist: "An astrologer doesn't pry into all your secrets." 15:36:47 ("Tropubles" is in the original text) 15:37:08 well, if astrology worked they kind of would pry into your secrets XD 15:39:42 Vorpal: O, yes. I suppose astrological psychotherapy is the way it is, then, because it is designed not to work and that is why it works. "Research indicates that, in factual terms, all astrological techniques are equally invalid. So use whatever technique you like, simple or complex, logical or crazy, it makes no difference. The only thing that matters is that you and your clients should like it." 15:40:24 -!- xandy| has joined. 15:40:27 well sure that works 15:40:28 `welcome xandy| 15:40:33 xandy|: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 15:41:05 xandy|: Look in wiki please, in case you didn't already (some people might find the wiki first and then the IRC) 15:41:05 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:41:29 colloinkgravisom, we could make a bot that kept track of who had been in here earlier and automatically told them that if they were new. 15:42:14 Vorpal: Did it get cut off? 15:42:25 zzo38, what getting cut off? 15:42:44 The message is supposed to " at the end, the one that I wrote 15:42:50 it had that 15:43:00 OK 15:43:17 zzo38, my irc client line add line breaks if a message is too long 15:44:30 I didn't think it was too long, I just wanted to make sure. Usually if a message fills up to three lines on my screen, it won't get cut off. So that is what I use 15:57:21 "The placebo effect is held to be the underlying reason why any successful psychotherapy works." 15:57:47 "Thus a gelatine capsule filled with sugar, and given with the assurance that it will bring sleep, will actually do so for about one person in three (Melzack & Wall 1983)." 15:57:57 "Placebos are effective even when people know they are receiving them (Levine & Gordon 1984), which should help astrology's effectiveness even when people believe there is nothing in it." 15:57:58 -!- nys has joined. 15:59:00 "Indeed, the split is so wide that many psychologists now refer to the "scientist-practitioner gap," where "gap" is actually more like "war"." 15:59:06 -!- nys has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:00:15 Skafte (1969), a psychologist and counsellor, tested the effect of introducing popular astrology (and palmistry and numerology) into personal and vocational counselling, for example by saying "a person born under your sign is supposed to enjoy travel -- does this sound like you?" The words were chosen to avoid implying validity and to promote dialogue. 16:00:27 -!- nys has joined. 16:01:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:03:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:15:34 -!- derdon has joined. 16:15:41 Apparently, Leslie Nielsen and Liam Neeson are not the same person. 16:17:56 Who told you they *were* the same person? 16:18:02 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 16:23:50 No one, but the names are so similar that when I saw either name, I thought "Guy from Airplane!" 16:43:43 -!- Klisz has joined. 16:53:45 -!- SimonDectro has changed nick to Gregor. 16:55:23 Wow, I've been SimonDectro for quite a while X-D 16:55:55 `words --help 16:55:59 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian \ default: --eng-1M \ \ options: \ -h, --help this help text 16:56:23 `words --canadian-english-insane 40 16:56:27 wood expurli avoudcappe sporally nitrain sulfover bebapp weave noneygregai ansensha liquoid piquel unad grancedalecturn centejud cretterorbit disessed vaitetrance rement fura sutummete hemetrop circular remut marlstere unopathima curtratin suppresting fostatine barpial rustic ponderweek out shaftonize arneura adahl mully requentrain borguel involum 16:56:28 What the hell is canadian-english-insane? 16:56:40 liquoid <-- yes 16:57:01 ponderweek <-- greatest 16:57:21 wood weave circular rustic out <-- it also generated a lot of real words 16:57:38 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Shaftonize. 16:57:45 Yes. So much yes. 16:58:51 -!- Shaftonize has set topic: We gonna shaftonize this channel | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:59:38 elliott (whoever you are today): I expect you to /nick shaftonise 17:00:07 colloinkgravisom: ^^^ 17:00:34 Hm? 17:00:45 But I'm Colloinkgravisom of Hexham! 17:01:09 But we gotta shaftonize this channel! 17:01:12 Shaftonize: And http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man5/canadian-english-insane.5.html 17:01:33 This package provides the file /usr/share/dict/canadian-english-insane 17:01:33 containing a list of English words with Canadian spellings. 17:01:33 This list can be used by spelling checkers, and by programs such 17:01:33 as look(1). 17:01:33 . 17:01:33 This is an even larger list than the one installed by wcanadian-huge, 17:01:35 and possibly contains invalid words (as well as words that are very 17:01:37 uncommon). Nothing prevents you installing both (and others) at the 17:01:39 same time. 17:01:41 . 17:01:43 There are also -small and standard versions of this word list, 17:01:44 Ah 17:01:45 and there are wbritish* and wamerican* packages as well. 17:01:51 So it's "insane"-ly big. 17:02:09 Still. 17:02:15 I expect you to /nick shaftonise 17:02:20 We gotta shaftonize this channel. 17:03:45 `word 50 17:03:49 undu gu coattes olzolftimancharghoblean efuntzionse peanorkjamjvas our tly prosegic restivoiriafs all sche talis riphisha endly rychroverment nefle tua ka imtusbutatiscetyl pusigalkelio hochesisman conareucorang go orprogis ri com enez mutiachinernis tcons xpossem ispoo pis fulotaicke beratber ged aruct fillate hanci strou traudupinse ric alkelihrs chiessoee pre fors latiking ing gresaler hted 17:04:21 Shaftonize: You're just too olzolftimancharghoblean. 17:11:30 Sometimes the dwarf planets are called subplanets, and someone called the planets the "uberplanets" and the dwarf planets the "unterplanets" 17:12:01 im planet 17:17:02 Shaftonize: What's Shaftonize's first name? I bet it's Jim. 17:17:04 Jim Shaftonize. 17:17:13 Jim Shaftonize and Colloinkgravisom of Hexham; they fight crime. 17:17:46 What are glyphs for dwarf planets Haumea and Makemake? 17:20:15 Uranus and Pluto each have two glyphs. Uranus has the astronomical glyph which can sometimes be confused with that of Mars, and the Herschel glyph which is more distinct and is the one usually used in astrology. Pluto has an astronomical "PL" glyph, and an astrological glyph which is similar to that of Neptune. 17:21:13 (Some astrologers use the Herschel glyph for Uranus and the "PL" glyph for Pluto; these result in more distinct glyph than other choices. Astronomers do not use the glyphs much.) 17:38:31 I think the dwarf planets and nearly certain dwarf planets that don't already have glyphs should be given glyphs. Although (225088) 2007 OR10 should probably be given a name before it is given a glyph. 17:40:09 That is, for the planets and dwarf planets of our solar system; objects in other solar systems probably don't need glyphs. 17:41:31 colloinkgravisom: Dude, Shaftonize doesn't have a first name. 17:41:34 He's just Shaftonize. 17:43:13 -!- Klisz has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:44:30 -!- Guest47310 has joined. 17:46:57 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:47:04 colloinkgravisom: colloinkgravisom's superpower is killing the bad guys while they try to pronounce his name. Shaftonize's is ... well, suffice it to say he Shaftonizes them. 17:49:04 Shaftonize: X-D 17:49:32 Shaftonize: Which Helsinkian is behind the nefarious scheme? 17:49:42 Helshipwreck. 17:50:00 `words --finish 40 17:50:04 Unknown option: finish 17:50:06 Err 17:50:09 `words --finnish 40 17:50:14 elpoilemina tarisma katshorjuman kiinnettiivoiduisempi siiltani psyviljet pääniksinuviytymin alustani mielevään fyys tärkitukeamattamakseen pääsevakseni tyllisellisi sellämme suomampana satalaisi puhelemme erologisempia virräpä tyyden kokoamalle varhaisimpänä kuvananne liimittaessa eliäisykseni utempinani syytämäävimmässämme vailemmistansa työstämissänne potpulanistiskunnikin cemballeegisimpää 17:50:15 I just really wanted it to finish giving me words. 17:50:36 I could fight Erologisempia. 17:56:18 Shaftonize: Is that fizzie? 17:56:23 The fearsome Erologisempia of Helsinki. 17:56:30 Yup. 17:56:40 I like "Syytämäävimmässämme" more. 17:56:44 It's very Finnish. 17:56:47 That's his robowarrior. 17:56:49 X-D 17:57:10 It babbles incoherently while Erologisempia escapes. 17:57:22 Shaftonize: Unfortunately, because the robot's speech recognition technology (written by fizzie himself) sucks really badly, he has never been able to give it a single command successfully. 17:57:27 It just can't recognise its own name. 17:57:32 X-D 17:57:44 Neither can the good guys though. 17:57:47 So, y'know. There's that. 17:58:02 Where does SuperTuring come in? 18:01:01 "LONZOBOT! I have told you to stop three times, but it seems you have a HALTING PROBLEM! I'm going to solve you right now, AXIOMATICALLY!" 18:02:42 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:05:37 Ngevd is sdfj 18:06:10 ??? 18:06:20 I just wanted to know about magic hexagons 18:09:33 yes 18:09:35 so does 18:09:36 the univers 18:09:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:11:35 hi oerjan 18:13:41 Did you here about the mathematician who took a bus to work? 18:14:16 He got lost 18:14:47 The punchline needs work 18:14:59 ha ha, as if mathematicians could find employment 18:15:16 He works at a fast food restaurant in Helsinki 18:17:07 who doesn't 18:22:55 evening 18:22:55 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:25:22 @tell colloinkgravisom Okay. 18:25:23 Consider it noted. 18:26:18 @tell oerjan It's not okay. 18:26:18 Consider it noted. 18:26:47 @tell colloinkgravisom Then why did you say yes. 18:26:47 Consider it noted. 18:27:53 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE). 18:27:58 @tell oerjan because science 18:27:59 Consider it noted. 18:28:16 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:28:19 @tell colloinkgravisom Ah. 18:28:19 Consider it noted. 18:28:28 -!- Ngevd has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:36 @tell oerjan super science 18:28:37 Consider it noted. 18:29:37 What is that exactly? <-- thue-morse sequence, also you missed the colors. 18:30:06 what 18:30:06 colloinkgravisom: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:30:08 hwo did lambdabot 18:30:11 not tell oerjan about mesages 18:30:13 oh he use /msg 18:30:14 like snek 18:30:19 @mesages 18:30:19 oerjan said 4m 57s ago: Okay. 18:30:19 oerjan said 3m 32s ago: Then why did you say yes. 18:30:19 oerjan said 2m ago: Ah. 18:30:37 * oerjan super snek 18:31:43 @tell oerjan snek >:-( 18:31:44 Consider it noted. 18:34:24 Where does SuperTuring come in? // he's the stupidly over-powered superhero with no real weakness who's only written into the story as a mulligan when the writers realize they've painted themselves into a corner. 18:36:23 ++ 18:38:49 Anyway, here's my next impossible game idea (after ZEE, my first impossible game idea): A game in which you time-travel to absolutely any point in time (not just to certain periods), and the game engine propagates the results of your actions appropriately (runs Civilization against itself?) such that it maintains a consistent timeline. It would be like a very open-world RPG, with a selected group of "missions" that are only available if the timeline aligns 18:38:49 such that the person to give you the mission exists; or, you could just futz with the timeline and make yourself king. 18:39:47 Shaftonize: The problem being that there has to be like at least one quest every few years or history is super boring, and writing a few thousand quests doesn't sound like fun. 18:40:10 colloinkgravisom: Quests could be available for the entire lifetime of individuals, or even whole families. 18:40:38 Shaftonize: That's still a few hundred quests at the VERY least :P 18:40:45 If you assume only one family exists at any given time. 18:41:13 A) I did call this an /impossible/ game idea, B) I don't think that's outside the realm of reason? That seems only slightly above typical I'd estimate. 18:41:13 or nations. like "regain our lost homeland from the infidels." that one seems to be quite popular. 18:41:47 (a) Yeah, but the best impossible things are possible things! (b) So you WANT to assume only one family is alive in the entire world for any given generation? 18:42:03 Besides, not every point in history has to have quests, if you have some McGuffin device to tell you when to go. 18:43:01 Let's say you go from 3000 BC (~Ancient Egypt) to present, and let's say there are 10 quests at any given time that are available for 200 years each... that's 250 quests. 18:43:13 I GUESS that would work, but 10 quests at any given period of history and not changing for 200 years seems lameish. 18:43:16 like the very borin tinsel age, where they had primitive metalworking but could only use it for decoration. 18:43:19 *+g 18:43:19 Shaftonize: But that makes it obviously possible :P 18:43:46 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:44:02 Hello! 18:44:04 colloinkgravisom: Honestly I don't think the difficult part is getting the quests/missions in. It's making the whole damned engine work such that you can kill a king and change a kingdom and all of the future, but kill a commoner and laugh as history doesn't remember him. 18:44:19 Shaftonize: I take it I don't have to point out how unrealistic that is. 18:45:04 colloinkgravisom: You have to have the ability to make some big changes, or it's just dulllllllll, although most changes should fold into consistent timelines in a few hundred years at most. 18:45:23 Shaftonize: ...no, I meant the commoner thing. 18:45:26 Butterfly effect, maan :P 18:45:45 butterfly effect is a myth 18:46:05 ... yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahno. Unless that commoner also happens to be Jesus, you're probably OK. 18:46:19 but but, that commoner was the great great great great great great grandfather of einstein! 18:46:23 That line was a joke. But I think it's fairly obvious that even medium-fiddly time-travel expeditions could have pretty large effects *shrugs* 18:46:27 oerjan: Statistics say no. 18:46:29 I mean, probaly not a single commoner. 18:46:39 colloinkgravisom: Ohyeah, absolutely. 18:46:40 But presumably there's things you can to between killing a commoner and killing Jesus. 18:46:48 Looking for legal to watch Star Trek episodes. StarTrek.com has TOS, Enterprise, and TAS available 18:46:48 :/ 18:46:51 That's the whole trick to it; if you pillage a whole town, it should have SOME effect on the future. 18:47:18 quintopia: Anyway, how the heck do you define "myth", I'm pretty sure nobody has studied the effects of time travel on civilisation :P 18:47:20 Basically, it's wholly impossible to run it such that individual-level changes CAN have an effect, but for the most part everything folds into a consistent global timeline. 18:47:41 Shaftonize: You... might be able to. 18:47:47 I had other idea of computer games, such as five-dimensional pong 18:47:51 Shaftonize: You just need to treat everything as a set of fuzzy constraints. 18:48:09 Shaftonize: Like, the global timeline is basically a set of constraints saying "Christianity rises and economies go roughly like this and civilisations and blah". 18:48:13 colloinkgravisom: Yeh. With an obscene amount of tuning. 18:48:24 colloinkgravisom: i was just indicating that in the real world, things like weather have a large number of inputs, so even a large change to a part of that input is a small change to the whole of the input, hence to the system's future 18:48:26 Shaftonize: And time travel effects add additional constraints with various weights, and you have a crazy massively-special-casing algorithm to work out a world from that :P 18:48:35 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to scamubtc4pp. 18:48:37 quintopia: i read once that if you consider how tiny changes in timing would affect sperm cells, even the slightest change to history would basically wipe out everyone in the future after a few generations 18:48:55 quintopia: Yeah, I don't buy it, because not every system acts like that. 18:49:05 I mean, that's obviously not true for a hash function :) 18:49:15 And I don't think all real-world systems are as stable as the weather over time. 18:49:17 Definitely not. 18:49:23 quintopia: i read once that if you consider how tiny changes in timing would affect sperm cells, even the slightest change to history would basically wipe out everyone in the future after a few generations <-- the exact individuals, yes, but the overall societal behavior? No. 18:49:28 oerjan: but even so, the things those people did would be done, by and large, by other people eventually 18:50:08 Is there an academic consensus on whether WWII would have happened without Hitler? :p 18:50:16 (TAKE THAT GODWIN) 18:50:18 Wipe out Fermat. What happens to mathematics? (At least, as far as math produced by the search for Fermat's Last Theorem goes) 18:50:20 colloinkgravisom: Also I was thinking of starting you off in a universe where your character has already fucked up history, so it doesn't have to match real history. 18:50:31 colloinkgravisom, I'm pretty sure it would have happened 18:50:35 Sgeo: I don't think large branches of mathematics were developed in pursuit of FLT... 18:50:39 colloinkgravisom: That way the algorithms don't have to be tuned to reality, just realism. 18:50:50 colloinkgravisom: there are systems that change dramatically based on small changes in human life, yes. memes travel because of people, and social networks can amplify some small things 18:50:51 Shaftonize: Well, yeah. 18:51:07 colloinkgravisom, for some reason, I was under the impression that there were 18:51:19 Ask oerjan. :p 18:51:46 Imagine if Mark Zuckerberg had never gone to Harcard 18:51:53 s/rca/rva/ 18:52:24 then those twins would have made facebook instead and there would have been no competitor for myspace until google worked something up 18:52:26 Ngevd: We can only hope. 18:52:42 Or, imagine :P 18:52:43 Ngevd's scales of time suck. 18:52:45 I HOPE THE PAST CHANGES. 18:52:46 One lifespan is boring. 18:52:51 Things work out on the century scale. 18:53:03 Imagine if Octavian had never gone to Harvard 18:53:04 Shaftonize: That isn't really true these days... 18:53:10 I mean, it's hard to deny that Facebook has had massive effects :P 18:53:18 colloinkgravisom: Prove it with your time machine. 18:53:45 ONLY IF YOU GIVE ME A COPY OF ZEE 18:53:53 Or had defeated Mark Antony earlier rather than forming the triumvirate with him and Lepidus 18:53:55 colloinkgravisom: Meet me in the future, I'm sure I'll have it. 18:54:18 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:54:46 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 18:54:46 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 18:54:46 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 18:55:00 Why is the name "asiekierka" familiar? 18:55:18 Ahah 18:55:22 I thought so 18:55:31 He's a fan of Datastuck and an esoteric programmer 18:55:46 Ish 18:55:48 For both 18:55:59 He's our favourite* annoyance. 18:56:04 *Maybe not actually favourite. 18:56:06 Sgeo: I don't think large branches of mathematics were developed in pursuit of FLT... <-- iirc ring theory got kickstarted from a botched proof of flt which assumed something like prime factorization worked for generalized numbers 18:56:23 oerjan: Fair enough 18:56:38 Binodu was an interesting concept 18:56:40 Naw, elliott is our f[l]avo[u]rite annoyance. 18:56:52 o.O "Datastuck"? 18:57:22 Sgeo, the unintentional Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff of MSPAFA's 18:58:02 Shaftonize: I'm the best flavourite. 18:58:28 http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?33810-Datastuck 18:58:56 * oerjan licks colloinkgravisom to test flavour 18:59:12 Ham flavour 18:59:17 To the sixth degree 19:01:14 -!- salisbury has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:02:55 PORK! It's the meat of kings! It's made from pig, try it with onion rings! 19:04:51 Shaftonize: Fuck. 19:04:52 Shaftonize: You. 19:04:54 well it certainly tasted like long pig to me. 19:04:56 Now that's stuck in my head. 19:04:59 8-D 19:07:43 Shaftonize: How much did your el cheapo Android tablet cost? 19:08:04 colloinkgravisom: IIRC, about $80? 19:08:27 Shaftonize: Darn... US beats UK on tech prices yet again :P 19:08:43 Shaftonize: Does yours have a super-secret super-unauthorised way to get the Android Market on it too? 19:09:16 Yup 19:09:20 I quote: "There's no access to the official Android Market built-in, but you can get apps from other app stores such as Handango or Opera Mobile Store. Most budget tablets don't have the official Android app store onboard because Google isn't too keen on certifying cheap kit." "To get the Android Market on this tablet click on settings, select applications and select hidden Google application. Go back to home screen and keep your finger 19:09:20 on a empty space, an add to home screen pops up select widgets and select market icon , you can now sign in or make a new account by selecting the market icon on your home screen." 19:09:33 SO LEGAL 19:09:46 Shaftonize: Super-unauthorised by Google that is, not the manufacturer :P 19:09:52 Rooting it and installing it like that is cheating. 19:10:39 colloinkgravisom: The US loves cheap tech. 19:11:18 Well, actually, it's more accurate to say: tech companies like pretending that $1 = £1 = €1 = ¥100. 19:11:29 pikhq_: YEAH BUT MINE HAS A 1 GHZ CPU 19:11:40 (... = 1.5 CAD = 2 AUD) 19:11:40 That's actually not bad. Resistive screen though I assume? 19:11:40 And now Shaftonize will tell me his has a 3 GHz dual-core Pentium 4. 19:11:47 Shaftonize: Nope, capacittatitiatiiievitive. 19:11:54 Well then that's not even a cheap tablet. 19:11:58 Mine is garbage. 19:12:05 Shaftonize: ...I didn't actually tell you how much mine cost though :P 19:12:07 * pikhq_ merely has a Kindle. 19:12:10 It's like 80 quid. 19:12:18 But that's budget in this rich, rich country. 19:12:22 (FSVO rich) 19:12:36 So, $125. Seems about right, little bit inexpensive for a capacitive. 19:12:38 Which is like a hella-cheap tablet with a neat screen and no touch screen. 19:12:45 I last stopped watching DS9 somewhere around early season 7 19:12:45 Shaftonize: It's surprisingly non-shitty really, but it's still a really-tall-aspect-ratio 7" thing with a low-quality screen. 19:12:51 I think it's connected with VGA or something :P 19:12:55 lol 19:12:56 Should I pick up where I left off, or rewatch some episodes? 19:13:05 But capacitive is what's really vital. Resistive touchscreens suck foot. 19:13:21 (and thus not all that useful for anything but reading) 19:13:26 Shaftonize: Yah... although this one isn't THAT good a touchscreen, they say it's capacitative so :P 19:13:29 Cpatpiactpicptjitvie. 19:13:36 ... "they say"??? 19:13:40 Shaftonize: On the box. 19:13:45 ... you can't tell? 19:13:55 Shaftonize: I've basically avoided resistive devices entirely. 19:14:00 So uh... go me :P 19:14:11 It's capacitive, I'm sure. 19:14:16 Shaftonize: Also WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME ABOUT SWYPE BEFORE??? 19:14:18 colloinkgravisom: Resistive touchscreens feel like a sheet of plastic over the screen. You can actually feel it indent slightly when you push on it. 19:14:24 Right, it's not that. 19:14:33 And you actually have to push. 19:14:52 If swype is usable without wanting to kill yourself, then it's not resistive. 19:15:08 Yah :P 19:15:19 There is *a* sort of benefit to a resistive touchscreen, though. You can get really insane input resolution on it. 19:15:19 Swype makes up for the fact that the built-in on-screen keyboard is the worst thing I've ever used. 19:15:37 Of course, unless you're using a stylus who gives a shit, your finger is Fat. 19:15:47 At first I was like "shiiiit now I know why everyone thinks the iPhone's keyboard is so much better" and then I was like "OMG THIS IS COOLER THAN DASHER". 19:15:50 ACTUAL THOUGHTS 19:16:33 Anyway, I think if I had any interest in a tablet PC I'd probably go with a "legit" brand, and maybe one of the few convertibles with detachable keyboards. 19:17:01 The detachable keyboard thing is ehhhhhhhh since you know it's gonna be really low-quality and small. 19:17:11 So are laptop keyboards. 19:17:16 Not the same :P 19:17:20 Well, yeah. If you're getting a tablet as a toy, then why bother spending a lot? 19:17:36 'struth. 19:17:39 I'm SO tempted to try and put Inferno on mine. 19:17:44 So tempted. 19:17:59 But I don't know how to un-brick it if I fuck up the OS :P 19:18:19 Query: should I root my Kindle? And if so, WTF should I do with it? 19:18:53 pikhq_: Install GNOME. 19:19:04 It will be the best trainwreck ever. 19:19:05 colloinkgravisom: Jesus I dunno if even X would be sane here. 19:19:40 pikhq_: X on the DR800SG is AWESOME. 19:20:10 And no, you shouldn't root your Kindle, eInk sux for ... everything but reading. For reading it's awesome. 19:20:30 Shaftonize: I thought a Kindle would be great for IRC but then I realised it'd have to fully redraw every line :( 19:20:34 We need, like, scrolling e-ink. 19:20:47 It has a roll of e-ink that it just rotates and wipes when it gets to the other side. 19:20:49 That's how e-ink works. 19:20:56 Shaftonize: Yeah, it is totally awesome for reading. 19:21:20 Also: jeeze I could install Debian on here. 19:21:57 pikhq_: Run Chrome on it. 19:22:02 Compile LLVM on it. 19:22:04 pikhq_: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75336&d=1312936864 19:22:05 Linux from Scratch it. 19:22:13 Use it as a web server OMG DO THIS 19:22:21 I wonder if the free 3G stuff has open ports :P 19:22:40 Shaftonize: CUT YR NAILS 19:22:52 colloinkgravisom: Only my thumbnails are long; my cat appreciates them. 19:22:53 colloinkgravisom: Mine doesn't have the free 3G. :( 19:23:06 Some ideas about variant of Magic: the Gathering rules (just meant to be ideal rules and not necessarily related at all to actual cards that need kludgy rules to work): 19:23:21 -!- PiRSquaredAway has changed nick to PiesAreRound. 19:23:43 pikhq_: Host things on it anyway :P 19:23:50 I still REALLY want to host things off my router... 19:24:30 Remove the state-based effect that causes tokens to cease to exist, and instead replace it with this: Objects can have what is called its "initial state", which refers to what is written on the card. Objects with current state and initial state are "cards". Objects with current state but no initial state are "tokens". Other objects are neither cards nor tokens. 19:25:37 colloinkgravisom: Fairly trivial; I can get root on here without much effort, so. 19:25:49 When an object is moved from one zone to another (but with a few exceptions), the old object is destroyed, and if it had an initial state, a new object is created from its initial state in the destination zone. Under this rule, the state-based effect causing tokens to cease to exist is not required, and copies of spells also count as tokens, which can even allow Artifact/Creature/Enchantment spells to be copied. 19:25:53 Chroot-debian and OpenOffice on the N900 is the best idea too. 19:26:05 fizzie: Does that even... run? 19:26:11 Ehh, phones are powerful these days. 19:26:18 Well, it... stumbles. 19:26:22 Can't say it "runs". 19:26:23 OpenOffice on a router, however... 19:26:39 My dream has always been to be able to somehow run a complete computer off just a router, with internet access. 19:26:44 I also dislike the rule that the state-based effect causing auras that are also creatures to be discarded, and equipments that are also creatures to become unattached. 19:26:46 Plugged into a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. 19:27:09 Unfortunately, routers still have like 32 megs of RAM :P 19:27:22 Mine has 64! That should be enough for everyone? 19:27:31 Quite often they have USB ports (for mass-storage sharing and/or 3G stick backup connection) so at least you can plug all that in. 19:27:56 colloinkgravisom: It should be enough to install Forth, and some networking stuff. 19:27:58 fizzie: FSVO all; most monitors don't have USB interfaces. 19:28:07 Of course it's just a matter of hacking up an adapter and writing a driver. :p 19:29:17 fizzie: Although you can get those mini 8" USB display things. 19:29:22 Another rule of Magic: the Gathering I would have is one that prohibits non-existent objects from dealing damage. If you change a card's power after damage is assigned, the damage won't change; but if the card is moved to another zone (even if it is subsequently moved back into play), the damage is prevented. 19:29:46 pikhq_: So, you didn't join our discussion of my BRILLIANT game idea 19:30:03 You can get a "USB/VGA adapter", aka USB-connected display card. (At least one brand is selling that making it look like it's just an adapter cable.) 19:30:04 do tell 19:30:09 (Where by "BRILLIANT" I of course mean "impossible") 19:30:10 quintopia: You did... 19:30:23 Shaftonize: Y'know, it'd be easier if you didn't have a fixed history, and procedurally generated everything. The hard part there is quests... 19:30:43 colloinkgravisom: I had no desire for a fixed history. 19:30:45 Shaftonize: But "assign quest structures to relevant people/nations/etc. so that they work out" seems easier than "make history modification work on a fixed world" :P 19:30:52 colloinkgravisom: was it about superturing? cuz i never actually read that convo 19:30:54 Shaftonize: Yeah, but I mean, just generate a whole world and simulate it. 19:30:57 quintopia: >_< 19:31:04 quintopia: The time travel one. 19:31:07 colloinkgravisom: Naturally. 19:31:09 oh the time yeah 19:31:12 Another rule I dislike is the rule that says if a Land card has other types too, you do not use the rules for playing a card of that other type. It should be unnecessary because if it has no mana cost, it cannot be played as another type anyways. 19:31:18 colloinkgravisom: That's why I wanted to start the game with "you've already fucked up history" 19:31:19 Shaftonize: Well, that makes the time travel part easy... 19:31:25 colloinkgravisom: "Easy". Yeah. 19:31:25 Shaftonize: You just throw away the future and re-simulate the world. 19:31:25 i didnt know someone was seriously considering making such a game 19:31:47 quintopia: I'm not, just poking the idea with a stick. 19:31:58 ISRT someone was looking for an "USB to HDMI cable" for uploading movies to eir media players. That was quite confusing. I think it was supposed to go in-between an USB port on a computer and the HDMI out of the media box. 19:32:03 s/RT/TR/ 19:32:09 colloinkgravisom: The problem with generating the future is, like I said before, allowing things to propagate to higher-level changes without every change you make just effing up all of the future. 19:32:24 Making it propagate to wider changes but also stabilize. 19:32:26 I mean, if you can get movies out of a hole, surely you can stuff some movies in the same way? 19:32:27 fizzie: i'd like such an adapter 19:32:40 Shaftonize: That's just a case of "having a stable world simulation algorithm"... 19:32:50 fizzie: i tried to get a vga-rca thing once but it sucked and didnt work 19:32:51 If removing a peasant fucks up your world sim massiely, your sim sucks. 19:33:13 colloinkgravisom: But if killing an entire royal family doesn't cause a change that lasts at least a century, it also sucks. 19:33:38 colloinkgravisom: So it has to be able to sim at a very high level, then whenever it's demanded, generate further details from the simulation. 19:34:01 While making those further details completely consistent with the simulation at large. 19:34:05 Shaftonize: Just simulate at full detail always, and hand-wave it by making time travel difficult. 19:34:14 i.e. you have to operate the time machine while it simulates everything :P 19:34:22 -!- Guest47310 has changed nick to Klisz. 19:34:25 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 19:34:26 Right, it was Deltaco, and they have a product called "USB 2.0 to DVI/HDMI/VGA adapter". It's an "USB to HDMI cable", just not the right sort. 19:34:48 Shaftonize: Of course the CPU requirements will suck, but you don't need to do things to the detail of, say, DF. 19:34:50 "Full detail" would essentially mean that a few selected people are important at an individual level, the rest are important only at a group level. 19:34:56 Shaftonize: You can just make up the very fine detail /on the spot/. 19:35:01 Shaftonize: As in, you never ever store fine detail or anything. 19:35:12 You just do things at a medium level, and then Make Shit Up when you load the level. 19:35:25 Since it's fine, it'll change regularly, and so nobody can complain... 19:35:43 fizzie: What was Deltaco? 19:35:52 It's that "make shit up" that's complicated, because the things you do to that made-up shit may have larger consequences, for instance if you take a nuke to the middle ages and destroy France. 19:35:56 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:35:58 s/a nuke/several nukes/ 19:36:20 I once made up a Magic: the Gathering card that once it phased out, it remained phased out for the rest of the game; but in the new rules it would phase in normally. 19:36:51 colloinkgravisom: The brand that sells their USB display card thing as an "USB to HDMI adapter". 19:36:59 It's that "make shit up" that's complicated, because the things you do to that made-up shit may have larger consequences, for instance if you take a nuke to the middle ages and destroy France. 19:37:04 fizzie: Ah. 19:37:06 Shaftonize: That's not very made-up shit. 19:37:08 That's high-level shit. 19:37:43 True. 19:37:46 OK, lemme try again: 19:37:56 You go back to France, and run around a kill literally everyone, one by one. 19:38:02 It takes you several days. 19:38:08 You are playing this game like an idiot for some reason. 19:38:35 Shaftonize: OK, I don't mean that you should ignore the entire world because lol everything is made out of atoms. 19:38:46 I guess it could just think of them as numbers at this scale. 19:38:51 Shaftonize: I mean that when you get into your time machine, you just take a /medium-level/ snapshot of the world state. 19:38:58 Which would, in this case, include "there's nobody fucking alive". 19:39:05 And then run a simulation at /that/ level, saving tons and tons of CPU time. 19:39:22 And then when you load the level, you, uh, do nothing because there's no villages or people to name or w/e :P 19:39:23 Right, so my point is just that your transition to and from scales has to be completely consistent. Such that if you drop in, have a coffee, then leave, you won't eff things up. 19:39:26 It's just very delicate is all. 19:39:35 Shaftonize: Well, right. 19:40:35 Shaftonize: Easy solution: Your time machine always breaks and needs [quest part] to start it again :) 19:40:46 Blehlame. 19:40:58 -!- scamubtc4pp has changed nick to copumpkin. 19:41:04 It's supposed to be very open-world. If you want to just adjust the universe to your liking, you can do that, THEN go on quests. 19:41:09 Why is the DS9 intro music so grating? 19:41:47 i like the ds9 music 19:42:06 Sgeo: It's not grating, just boring. 19:42:10 TNG opening is only opening. 19:42:30 DS9's opening music is not as grating as Janeway's voice. 19:42:31 QED. 19:42:41 Shaftonize: Interesting idea of a game but like you said is probably completely impossible for more than one reason 19:42:47 I GOT FAIIIITH OF THE HEART 19:42:49 zzo38: So, so many reasons. 19:42:59 colloinkgravisom: THAT SHOW DOES NOT EXIST. 19:45:50 Shaftonize: You ain't got STRENGTH OF THE SOUUUL 19:46:40 colloinkgravisom: So, whaddya say, time travel game's source code maintained in scape🐐? Sound good? 19:47:17 Shaftonize: Absolutely. 19:47:43 Shaftonize: (Do you have that assigned to Compose g o a t or something?) 19:47:54 I actually look it up every time >_> 19:49:00 http://news.discovery.com/tech/motorized-shoes-111222.html <-- motorized shoes. The maker recommends riders weigh no more than 180 pounds. Which is ironic because anybody who needs effing MOTORIZED SHOES weighs more than 180 pounds. 19:49:28 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:49:44 A problem: it lacks support 19:49:46 Wait 19:49:54 That's the middle line in a haiku 19:50:06 With Haiku I found 19:50:13 For my wifi card 19:50:19 That's the first and last 19:50:43 Shaftonize: Dude, who cares about need? I WANT motorised shoes. 19:50:53 I'll start again 19:50:58 Wait, I forgot something. 19:50:59 Hello! 19:51:07 Ngevd... 19:51:16 Bye 19:51:17 Shaftonize: Hey, man. To be fair to Enterprise, it *could* have been good. 19:51:18 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 19:51:32 If you replaced everything past "let's have a show set when the Federation is forming". 19:51:58 Can we take a minute to gawp at how friggin' hyper Ngevd is? 19:52:38 Can I take a minute to gawk at the word "gawp"? 19:52:52 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:53:03 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:53:31 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:53:38 Shaftonize: I prefer Perl. 19:56:43 Insofar as I don't rightly know [g]awk, I suppose I do too ... 19:58:26 "Essentially, the Fmap constructor also allows us to define a properly 19:58:27 lazy function const . " 19:58:35 cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolq 19:58:37 *." 20:00:57 "What happens to referential transparency when distinct things are all 20:00:57 defined by the same equation? 20:00:57 ... = let x = x in x 20:00:57 undefined, seq, unsafeCoerce, and many other "primitives" are defined using 20:00:57 that equation. (See GHC.Prim)" 20:01:04 oerjan: remember that solla guy? 20:01:22 oerjan: he is now making claims based on the dummy GHC/Prim.hs source that exists only to generate Haddock documentation :D 20:03:54 -!- DCliche has joined. 20:04:25 colloinkgravisom: So, whaddya say, time travel game's source code maintained in scape? Sound good? <-- and implemented in feather, of course 20:06:28 oerjan: You fucked up that goat... 20:07:38 -!- Klisz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:08:42 erm, i just cut and pasted 20:08:48 Shaftonize: Tell him he fucked the goat. 20:08:51 except at the line ends 20:09:42 i cannot see any difference in the logs, they are both perfectly fine empty squares. 20:09:48 YOU FUCKED THE GOAT 20:10:07 and in irc they are both perfectly fine invisible empty spaces. 20:10:45 i guess what i'm trying to say, is i have no idea what you are talking about. 20:12:38 oerjan: YOU 20:12:39 oerjan: FUCKED 20:12:40 oerjan: THE 20:12:41 oerjan: GOAT 20:12:58 i think i broke colloinkgravisom. 20:13:06 again. 20:13:18 oerjan: The goat is a U+01F410 or something, while yours is just a U+F410. 20:13:44 oh hm 20:14:06 The ASTRAL PLANES strike again. 20:14:39 ("Sometimes, the terms “astral plane” and “astral characters” are used informally to refer to the planes above the Basic Multilingual Plane (planes 1–16) and their characters.") 20:14:48 -!- PiesAreRound has changed nick to PiRSquared17. 20:15:25 interesting, trying to paste the correct one into irssi gives two periods instead. 20:16:16 > "e..?" 20:16:16 "e..?" 20:16:29 oerjan: THE GOAT REMAINETH FUCKED 20:16:32 > "e?" 20:16:33 : 20:16:33 lexical error in string/character literal at chara... 20:16:40 fnord? 20:17:21 colloinkgravisom: it would appear irssi is not utf-8 clean, then 20:17:52 oerjan: It's Perl, isn't it? 20:17:53 Or is it C. 20:17:56 fizzie knows. 20:17:58 C for the most part. 20:18:06 Anyhow, it almost certainly tries to decode what you input. 20:18:07 There's a Perl scripting thing. 20:18:12 So it's more likely that they just fucked up the astral planes. 20:18:49 XChat just shows it as a box with the codepoint number in, since I don't have any 🐐-fonts. 20:19:30 i guess it could also be putty's fault 20:19:44 If I paste this 🐐 into irssi here, all I get is a single Unicode missing-character "?"-in-a-blob symbol. 20:19:54 or even something between. 20:21:20 Fortunately: eiväthän ääkköset ole enää ongelma. 20:22:16 `words --finnish 20 20:22:20 tavistiriä ryöppyäviivempänäni aleni keutulkitseville numaamianne hämääräilyssä rottavalla koboelläsittamme purkautuvallisi hyllyttäneljänne kahlaan puhutkismaimero hyllentavanaan tuotavissa sykliseli edellänsä kirjakavamme varroksellisi hyötävältä mahtajatkemykseva 20:23:59 fizzie: Do you live in keutulkitseville? 20:24:30 No, I don't live in "keu-for-the-interpreting". 20:25:00 "I'm interested in possible ways to supply parameters into my program. It is a physical simulation and I need to input temperature, number of steps and so on. 20:25:00 However I need these parameters to be pure so I can't use IO in any way. Hence at least part of my program have to be recompiled each time. What is the best method to achieve this? 20:25:01 As far as I remember xmonad uses the same technique." 20:25:03 what..................... 20:25:09 fizzie: :D 20:25:15 fizzie: But you eat a lot of ryöppyäviivempänäni, right? 20:26:44 I don't think I eat a lot of "being-my-rushing-delayedmost". (Okay, that is not grammatic and took a lot of poetic license + map-to-nearest-sensibleing.) 20:27:30 :D 20:27:50 fizzie: I bet you go to the mahtajatkemykseva for a quick tuotavissa all the time. 20:27:52 Sorry, s/most/more/ 20:28:12 "ryöpytä" to cascade, to rush; "ryöppyävä" rushing; "viive" delay, "viiveempi" maybe sort-of more delay-like, "viiveeni" my delay, "viiveenäni" sort-of being my delay, as my delay. 20:28:37 "Tuotavissa" = "can be brought". I can't quite make anything up for "mahtajatkemykseva", sorry. 20:28:57 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:29:12 It sounds like a Buddhist title or something. 20:29:29 It fails at vowel harmony 20:29:49 That it does. 20:31:04 Oh, it's just not a and \"a? 20:31:32 It's [yöä] and [uoa] not in the same word. 20:31:36 With [ie] being neutral. 20:31:55 Except if you have a compound word it's enough that each part is vowel-harmonic. 20:32:04 I... see. 20:32:14 Do most Finns know this stuff? 20:32:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:32:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:32:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:32:21 It sounds like you need an instruction manual to speak your language. 20:32:42 It just doesn't sound right if it breaks the rules, you don't need a manual for it. :p 20:32:59 "How's the koboelläsittamme?" "Ooh, er, let me check my Pocket Finnish Ruleset to see if that's a valid word." 20:33:50 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:53 The inflectional suffixes get realized using the matching vowels based on what comes first, so "talo" => "talolla" -lla, "mäki" => "mäellä" -llä. 20:34:22 Uh... I might not want to start explaining which rules turn the base "mäki" into "mäe", though... 20:35:04 You make even a Hexhamite want to learn your crazy, crazy language. 20:35:09 Just to figure out how it works. 20:36:15 fizzie: Seriously though, how many of your young just give up on learning your fucking language? 20:36:28 Do you give them picture books with footnotes saying "Note the vowel harmony!" 20:36:54 fizzie: what i don't understand is how you can tell that mahtajatkemykseva cannot just split into compound words 20:37:11 oerjan: Finns are born with a dictionary table in their minds. 20:37:16 It's a microchip thing. 20:37:37 If you're learning the "regular" way, you just sort of get it by exposure, I think; foreigners learning as a second language probably do give up, though. 20:37:38 They get automatic upgrades when new words appear over WiMax. 20:38:08 In the 50s they were big radios, that's why Finns used to be called squareheads. 20:39:04 The technology, of course, was originally invented by the Chinese, so their moon language could be spoken by more than a handful of mutants. 20:39:53 oerjan: I guess it could be a compound word if there was anything sufficiently word-like (and not just pile-of-suffixes-like) in the back end. I mean, "mahtajapässi" would be a fine compound [mahtaja][pässi], but when it's "mahtajat", as in the plural of "mahtaja", it's not as easy to compound afterwards; you don't inflect in the middle of compounds, after all. The plural of "ovimies" is "ovimiehet", not "ovetmiehet". 20:40:19 (Doorman, doormen; not doorsmen.) 20:40:45 Surgeons general. 20:40:46 So, what you're saying is it's like doorsmenationablyesque. 20:40:54 colloinkgravisom: Win. 20:40:59 pikhq_: That's the best word. 20:41:05 That's not a compound word, that's one of your freaky two-word words. 20:41:39 fizzie: It's a single word that is written with a space. 20:41:53 Not... really. 20:42:01 "Surgeons general" is correct because they're the surgeons that are general. 20:42:41 colloinkgravisom: "Surgeon General" in US English is a rank. 20:43:04 -!- cheater has joined. 20:43:14 The rank of the head of the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. 20:43:49 Thus far there have been 18 Surgeons General. 20:44:11 oerjan: You totally fucked that goat. 20:44:41 One of the classical informal tests of "do I spell this as a compound word or as two separate words" (something that people nowadays seem to have a *lot* of trouble with) in Finnish is to consider "does it make sense if I put some suffixes after the first word". So "koripallo" is a compound word because "korinkin pallo" doesn't make sense, but "paikan päällä" is separate because "paikankin päällä" sounds just fine. (I'm sure there are exceptions; 20:44:41 the Korpela has said this particular rule causes more harm than good, for example.) 20:45:22 `addquote [...] "paikankin päällä" sounds just fine 20:45:26 780) [...] "paikankin päällä" sounds just fine 20:46:02 "korinkin pallo" makes perfect sense :-P 20:46:18 Shaftonize: i guess i'm destinated to be oerjan goatfucker from now on. 20:46:24 *destined 20:46:45 Deewiant: I guess I was supposed to try it with "korikin pallo", or something. As said, it's a silly rule. 20:47:09 You can build a hundred bridges, but if you suck ONE cock! 20:47:11 "-kin" is the usual, I think. Not sure if it works more or less often though. 20:48:11 fizzie: Why don't you just write everything as one word? 20:48:29 We just don't. :p 20:48:34 fizzie: Have you ever tried? 20:48:47 Ithinkthatmightbesortofhardtofollowandlookstupidtoo. 20:48:51 Is Finnish mora-timed or something? "päällä" just seems really strange otherwise. 20:49:03 That would be German. 20:50:10 pikhq_: "Finnish, -- are commonly quoted as examples of syllable-timed languages." 20:50:28 So, basically yes. 20:50:56 I don't know what's strange about "päällä". Doubling a phoneme basically gives a length increase, and that's that. 20:51:04 "All phonemes except /ʋ/ and /j/ can occur doubled phonemically with the result being a phonetic increase in length. Consonant doubling always occurs at the boundary of a syllable in accordance with the rules of Finnish syllable structure. 20:51:04 Some example sets of words: 20:51:04 tuli = fire, tuuli = wind, tulli = customs" 20:51:17 fizzie: It seems strange *unless* you've got timing like that. 20:51:17 ppäääällllää 20:52:20 Syllable-timed isn't the same thing as mora-timed. 20:52:57 No, merely similar. 20:53:00 (And doubled plosives are pronounced with a longer stop, in case that wasn't clear from the above.) 20:55:25 I probably should've said "syllable", though; it's really pretty rare that morae are considered important in a language... 20:55:59 language morals 20:56:45 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/Finnish.html has Korpela's short introduction of Finnish for foreigners. It's probably factually more correct than a randomly chosen native speaker. 20:57:00 It's also not very long. 20:57:07 (That's why it's called short.) 20:57:39 fizzie: Please tell me that Korpela guy is a celebrity in Finland. 20:57:56 He's a... pseudo-celebrity in some circles, I think? 20:57:57 In some circles. 20:59:09 He's sort-of famous for his non-friendly dismissal from his job at our university, for example. 20:59:58 Also of http://reminder.tontut.fi/reminder.jpg 21:00:06 "Et vaan osaa!" = "You just can't!" 21:00:21 (Wasn't this mentioned in Wikipedia at some point? Or at least Uncyclopedia or something?) 21:00:58 You just can't what? 21:01:27 As in, "you just don't know how to do it", that would perhaps be more accurate. 21:02:01 Did he get dismissed for breaking vowel harmony. 21:02:14 It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW. 21:02:27 * colloinkgravisom suddenly realises he has no idea what he's referencing with that. 21:03:07 colloinkgravisom: some matter of gravity. 21:03:20 which probably itself references something. 21:04:19 "The rest is mostly explained by my education (pure mathematics and a little physics, philosophy, and statistics) and my employment at Helsinki University of Technology Computing centre from 1974 to 2001. (So what happened in 2001? See the site history.)" 21:04:28 Ooh, time for the JUICY DETAILS. If it doesn't involve vowel harmony I'm quitting IRC. 21:04:38 -!- Klisz has joined. 21:04:51 "work effectively terminated by the employer's actions 2001-01-17" THAT TELLS ME NOTHING 21:04:52 It involves character set issues. :p 21:05:09 fizzie: Please tell me you're serious. 21:05:35 he was a character too set in his ways 21:05:47 Now that you mention it, I distinctly recall either you or Deewiant linking to some probably-web-browser encoding settings dialogue in Finnish and saying something with the letters "Korpela" in it nearby. 21:05:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:05:58 Well, almost. I'm not sure if the saga is explained anywhere in English. The official reason was "neglecting duties", but he disputes that. 21:06:06 Did he get fired for configuring his browser's default character set wrongly. 21:06:19 * colloinkgravisom cracked the Finnish mystery. 21:06:53 I, uh... tried to translate a Finnish thing with Google. It didn't... go well: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Feverybo.dy.fi%2Fotax_legendat.html 21:07:25 -!- DCliche has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:07:31 http://koti.kapsi.fi/juanttil/yucca/ This seems to translate... marginally better. 21:07:34 (Found a link.) 21:07:45 Yes, it's more about the dismissal. 21:08:06 The first page is about former-TKK-internal-newsgroups phenomenology. 21:08:16 "And that's exactly how things stand was: "Jukka Korpela F6suhde Teknillisess ty = = E4 = E4, college p = E4ttyy." Um. 21:08:21 *"" 21:08:32 Finns are weird. 21:09:13 "You chef postings removed from the request. " 21:09:16 Damn it. 21:09:17 Remember that you represent the guild there on the road. Good 21:09:17 viinapää does not mean that pulled that much booze, and is dill 21:09:17 team, but that would take even that much alcohol, can behave 21:09:17 smartly. Nobody is offering Swedish piss in the glass, no one will pull the 21:09:17 äksiä on the floor and everything behaves intelligently anyway. Kill is already below 21:09:17 Otaniemi känniääliömaine horrible, and it's reputation to spread 21:09:19 and internationally. 21:09:30 Who's removing my chef postings. 21:09:31 Bastards. 21:09:43 Do not you just can not! And part of the multi-else. The most famous was a link to this message http://reminder.ton.tut.fi/, but later also http://tinyurl.com/ely2 - however, these have now stopped working. Today is http://www.ely2.com . When someone does something to the part of him can be a short concise way to say "reminder" or "ely2". The fact that, Jukka K. Korpela, there is no self that behind the image, but it is made by someone e 21:09:43 lse over. Korpela, however, the picture is quite striking, because he has become famous for the fact that he knows, and knows very wide range of almost everything. 21:10:00 "the fact that he knows, and knows very wide range of almost everything." ;; so it's all Finns, not just fizzie and Deewiant? 21:10:24 http://www.thegravityposter.com/historyof_01.html 21:10:57 "So I had to reconstruct my site. Naturally, this was also an opportunity, or a necessity, to consider its organization and content too. Several friendly people had set up copies, or "mirrors", of my site, although they had to be based on incomplete data. Anyway, there was no immediate need to establish a new "home", since most of my material was somehow accessible. There was a lot to think about, and a lot to go through, and I had some 21:10:57 decisions to make. Given that (under Finnish and EU legislation) I am the copyright owner of my material, HUT having got just the right to use it (which the decision-makers decided to prevent), I had the opportunity to sell it, perhaps as part of making a contract with a new employer." 21:10:58 ah page 2 shows it was indeed referencing something earlier 21:11:05 oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? 21:11:12 fizzie: He, er, considered selling his personal website to get a job? 21:11:18 Am I reading this right? 21:11:24 colloinkgravisom: I don't know about that. Let me check that. 21:11:37 Where's it from? 21:11:41 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/sitehist.html 21:13:59 Oh, it's one of those English pages. In that case I guess your reading is as good as mine. 21:14:27 * colloinkgravisom just assumed that only the Finns can properly interpret the wise Korpela or something like that. 21:14:34 fizzie: +47 21:14:48 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. 21:14:58 I... guess you are geographically, too. 21:15:09 `addquote oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? fizzie: +47 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. I... guess you are geographically, too. 21:15:12 781) oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? fizzie: +47 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. I... guess you are geographically, too. 21:15:18 Us +358:ans are sort-of distant, you see. 21:15:20 fizzie: Hey, you haven't kicked the ?-space habit yet. 21:15:23 Thanksies. 21:15:27 Apparently not. 21:15:39 `addquote Note that the previous quote is, in fact, correctly spaced. 21:15:43 782) Note that the previous quote is, in fact, correctly spaced. 21:16:17 oerjan: What's your code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world that isn't the country code? 21:16:23 Oh, wait, this phone number already had the country code. The "(0047)" double-zero-not-a-plus notation just confused me. 21:16:24 That's not your full telephone number, so you have absolutely no reason not to tell us. 21:16:45 fizzie: What do your (post-country-code) telephone numbers look like in Finland? 21:16:50 Ours are quite interesting. 21:17:27 Most things are an 01xx area code and then a bunch of numbers but there's also 020 (which I think is London) and 070 (mobiles) and also 0800 is free-dial stuff but there's also 08000 which... might actually just be 0800 numbers with an 0 after them, I'm not sure. 21:20:05 colloinkgravisom: Our area codes in common use for regular people are: 02,03,05,06,08,09,013,014,015,016,017,018,019 (landlines; there used to be a lot more, they got combined in 1996); 040,041,042,044,0450,0451,0452,0453,0458,046,050 (mobiles; they used to be operator-specific, but nowadays you can move your number on and on, so it's no longer strictly true). 21:20:16 The landline numbers are geographical regions. 21:20:36 And then there is a confusing set of prefixes for companies. 21:20:43 A 010 and a 020 prefix, at least. 21:21:46 norway dropped local area numbers and also the initial zero many years ago; i guess the initial part of landline numbers may still count as an area code of sorts. 21:22:51 010 and 020 are for I think "same cost no matter where you're calling from" company phone numbers; they were marketed for being cheap for customers ("it's like making a local call no matter where you are") except that they're significantly more expensive than regular landline numbers when calling from a mobile phone, and most people only do the mobile thing nowadays, so... 21:22:56 Wow, we have area codes as long as 016977. 21:23:11 fizzie: We have those, too. 21:23:37 Starting mostly with 08 I think. 21:24:03 colloinkgravisom: We have some five-digit area codes for special cases. E.g. 04542, 04543 and 04544 are owned by Nokia. (The corporation, not the town.) 21:24:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Number_Change ;; the big places got their prefixes all en-flattened. 21:24:34 most numbers are 8 digits, although there are shorter ones. 21:24:34 fizzie: What do they do with all /those/? Test phones? 21:24:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballymoney ;; the best town name. 21:24:59 No clue, they're just on this list of operator prefixes. 21:25:05 Maybe they just have so many phones. 21:25:12 -!- Shaftonize has changed nick to Gregor. 21:25:34 The corporate phone I got from Nokia for my one summer there had a regular 050 mobile number, though. 21:25:45 I wonder how much they pay the voice actors for The Sims {1,2,3}. 21:26:15 Gregor: They don't; they're just shaftonised after the recording. 21:26:30 Mmm. 21:26:32 Makes sense. 21:26:40 The old (landline) area codes started with 9; there was 90 for Helsinki, and every other place had three-digit numbers. 21:26:49 Gregor: The workers refer to this as "getting shafted". 21:27:08 But there were something like 50 of them, as opposed to the current 13. 21:27:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:28:00 fizzie: What's your emergency phone number called? 21:28:02 Phantom_Hoover: Say hi. 21:28:23 hi 21:28:23 Phantom_Hoover: You have 34 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 21:28:29 I'd like to thank the academy. 21:28:30 Impressive. 21:28:53 colloinkgravisom: 112, but 911 also works. (Also it used to be 000 up until 1992, and it might still work for all I know.) 21:29:03 I hope you have the 24 lost to lambdabot's thread timeout logged. 21:29:12 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, aren't you lucky? 21:29:43 fizzie: It's 999 here. We're not smart enough to remember more than one digit. 21:29:51 fizzie: Do you guys have a talking clock?! 21:30:14 colloinkgravisom: It's called "Neiti Aika", i.e. "Miss Time". 21:30:23 Where "Miss" is the prefix for an unmarried lady. 21:30:25 You don't want to miss it, you want to know what it is. 21:30:31 Yes I'm not an idiot. 21:30:53 "In Finland the speaking clock service is known as Neiti Aika in Finnish or Fröken Tid in Swedish, both of which literally translate as 'Miss Time'." 21:30:55 FROKEN TID. 21:31:29 352310 calls in 1938; 1300 calls in 2006. 21:31:35 Perhaps in the meantime people have bought: CLOCKS. 21:31:40 X-D 21:32:25 -!- monqy has joined. 21:34:33 The way I recorded it was in jerks as it were. I said: "At the Third Stroke" (that does for all the times), and then I counted from One, Two, Three, Four, for the hours, we even went as far as twenty-four, in case the twenty-four hour clock should need to be used, and then I said "...and ten seconds, and twenty seconds, and thirty, forty, fifty seconds", and "o'clock" and "precisely". The famous "precisely". So what you hear is "At the T 21:34:33 hird Stroke it will be one, twenty-one and forty seconds".[11] 21:34:54 fizzie: Did you know: the 24 hour clock has 25 hours? 21:35:02 Since they recorded for the 24th hour and all. 21:35:44 In some locales they prefer "24:xx" to "00:xx", and given that they didn't record "Zero", that's probably what they would've gone with. 21:37:16 Deewiant: Seriously? Which locales? 21:37:23 Dunno. 21:37:47 I've also seen instances of using "24:00" but "00:01". 21:38:49 didn't someone say japanese tv schedules used 25: and 26: 21:40:21 I don't recall seeing someone say that here, but that's correct. 21:41:42 I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. 21:42:06 Deewiant: I've seen someone use both 24:00 and 00:00 in the same sentence before 21:42:21 me too 21:42:25 because the times were matched to days 21:42:36 oerjan: Also it seems that your zip/postal codes are just four digits. Is that true and/or a problem with web forms? 21:42:46 ais523: Right, that too. 21:43:12 I suppose it makes sense, though? Use "day" to map to a waking period. 21:43:13 fizzie: UK postcodes are one or two letters, one or two digits, (by convention a space), one digit, two letters 21:43:28 ais523: Oh, right, yours were weird, too. 21:43:40 not really; they're much more specific than most country's postcodes 21:43:43 (obviously, 25:00 is going to be for late-night programming, such as essentially all anime) 21:43:50 postcode + house number is enough for an address in the UK 21:43:50 -!- calamari has joined. 21:43:59 one postcode maps to a range of 10 houses or so 21:44:12 ais523: We stayed in a hotel with postcode W1T 5AY, that was... witty... 21:44:14 also, the first bit of the postcode is put on road name signs 21:44:21 fizzie: yes, just four digits 21:44:35 fizzie: hmm, that's not a well-formed postcode 21:44:48 I may have miscopied it, let me check. 21:44:51 the T is invalid there, it should be missing or a digit 21:45:19 ais523: http://www.radissonedwardian.com/london-hotel-gb-w1t-5ay/gbgrafto "130 Tottenham Court Road, London W1T 5AY". 21:45:21 ais523: Hmm. That's about as specific as the ZIP+4 in the US. 21:45:22 ais523: That's what they say. 21:45:24 hmm 21:45:33 it could be that W1 ran out of room 21:45:39 it's a pretty famous postcode area 21:45:41 fizzie: Wit say! 21:45:53 so it wouldn't surprise me if it had to be extended with letters in order to fit in more houses than usual 21:46:04 postcode + house number is enough for an address in the UK ;; btw, why DO we have to write longer addresses than that? 21:46:27 colloinkgravisom: in case there are typos 21:46:27 (ZIP+4 refers to a 9-digit post code, that the post office would really prefer you use; most people, though, only use a 5 digit code.) 21:46:29 I was always told that IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE DELIVERERS but that sounds like bullshit. 21:46:38 you don't; if you write house number + postcode, it will get delivered 21:46:45 (What's the gender-neutral form of postman, anyway? "Postperson" is weird.) 21:46:48 but if they misread it at all, it'll go to completely the wrong place 21:46:57 colloinkgravisom: informally "postie"; I'm not sure if there's a formal term 21:46:59 ais523: That just sounds like MORE FUN OPPORTUNITIES to me. 21:47:03 postdude 21:47:17 I don't think I ever have seen a female postman, anyway 21:47:23 so I suspect it's still a male-dominated job 21:47:29 Quite a little is enough for "an address" in Finland, but the post office doesn't exactly appreciate. The "student guild" room of the CS students has an impressive array of postcards sent with really obscure addresses. (Though maybe they're just gotten wise and carry all the weirdly-addressed mail there?) 21:47:30 A female postman sounds unlikely :P 21:47:31 that said, you tend not to have very many distinct postmen 21:47:39 monqy: Yes! Postdude. 21:47:42 Postbro. 21:47:56 postentity 21:47:58 If you're a dick, you could probably get away with name & ZIP here. 21:48:00 Postx. 21:48:15 Oh, "postal carrier" works. 21:48:17 If a bit verbose. 21:48:30 wow that sounds so excessively formal 21:48:35 postarrier 21:48:57 ais523: Well, there's also "mail carrier". :p 21:49:05 "Postperson" is seeming rather less awkward by the second. 21:49:43 posthuman 21:49:57 postwhatever 21:50:02 "postard". 21:52:34 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:52:57 Postaggle. 21:55:27 in soviet russia, compost. 21:56:23 Post...moc? 21:58:55 "Postperson" is seeming rather less awkward by the second. 21:58:57 postmooks 21:59:01 Isn't that what Mathnerd thought he was? 22:01:46 colloinkgravisom: aka posthumus. wait, that's prehumus. whoops. 22:02:25 09:47 < colloinkgravisom> kallisti: Er, you do realise that north=up is as arbitrary as north=down? 22:02:50 * oerjan listens carefully 22:03:07 colloinkgravisom: yes, but north and south as up or down are not arbitrarily chosen, and so it's still useful to have a reference direction for one of them. 22:03:28 english 22:04:08 I don't see how that invalidates what you quoted (not that I agree with what it's trying to express, necessarily); it's perfectly plausible to say that north was chosen as up because the pioneering mapmakers were from those areas, or something. (I don't know what the actual facts are in this situation, though.) 22:04:23 Just saying that "ha ha, they're saying that up is arbitrary!" doesn't really mean anything. 22:04:44 incidentally some medieval maps had east up iirc 22:05:06 http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=north 22:05:21 oerjan: The eymology link explains that 22:05:27 *etymology 22:05:48 Plausibly, at least 22:06:30 NihilistDandy: er, not really? 22:06:51 "possibly ult. from PIE *ner- "left," also "below," as north is to the left when one faces the rising sun" 22:06:59 So if north is left, east is up 22:07:41 colloinkgravisom: I just got the impression that he was claiming north/south were /entirely/ culturally fabricated and not based on useful non-cultural information like, say, the earth's axis of rotation. 22:08:16 i say that's a dubious connection, that's a gap of thousands of years between the etymology and the maps 22:08:29 that's true. 22:08:32 Well, okay, but "He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias." very clearly says "up"/"down". 22:09:00 At least some old maps had east at the top. 22:09:11 'Old' meaning 'medieval' here. 22:09:23 If it makes you feel any better, the etymology of west suggests "down" 22:09:41 Phantom_Hoover: incidentally some medieval maps had east up iirc 22:09:59 Where'd this start from? 22:10:32 I guess the Dymaxion map actually makes little circles around the geographic poles so.. that's good. I suppose I inferred too much. 22:11:38 Phantom_Hoover: 22:11:39 04:58:55: "He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias." 22:11:39 04:58:58: loool 22:11:40 04:59:03: north, just a cultural artifact, man. 22:11:44 Talking about map projections. 22:11:48 Presumably that's about Gall-Peters or whatever. 22:12:14 Oh, no. 22:12:17 Dymaxion. 22:12:22 (North/south = up/down is kind of natural anyway, because we distinguish the vertical from other directions and align the axis of the map that way, and there's far more 'interesting' land in the northern hemisphere, so putting it at the top kind of makes sense too.) 22:12:33 -!- PiRSquared17 has left ("Bye"). 22:12:51 colloinkgravisom: yeah Gall-Peters still uses north as up. 22:13:03 Phantom_Hoover: How is that not literally admitting it's a cultural bias? :p 22:13:22 the interesting land should fall to the bottom 22:13:24 I mean, OK, the Northern hemisphere is more detailed, but that's a kind of ridiculous justification. 22:13:28 and the boring land should float to the top 22:13:34 because that's how it works right 22:13:36 yes 22:13:38 that's called gravity 22:13:45 this is why vorpal is in the stratosphere and i'm underground 22:13:59 colloinkgravisom: the important shit should be on top dude. Like the USA, and Great Britain! 22:14:12 AMURKA 22:14:21 The Dymaxion projection would be better if it just unfolded the sphere directly. 22:14:23 (Cue Phantom_Hoover.) 22:14:28 kallisti, and everywhere except for some of South America and some of Africa. 22:14:43 nah too many non-white people. 22:14:56 There's a reason most people think the equator is a long way to the north of where it actually is. 22:15:19 Phantom_Hoover: You forgot Australia. 22:15:22 And Antarctica. 22:15:22 ...they do? 22:15:33 oerjan: I think people assume the Equator is the line dividing the Americas. 22:15:34 AT LEAST I DID 22:15:35 I vote that we use a series of tractor beams to arrange the new rotation of the Earth perpendicular to the current culturally biased model~ 22:15:38 because they wouldn't expect so much interesting shit in the same place. 22:15:43 It's the most natural place!!! 22:15:56 they'd expect it eventually distributed. 22:16:05 the earth should be evenly interesting. 22:16:13 evenly rather 22:16:23 oerjan: I think people assume the Equator is the line dividing the Americas. 22:16:58 Or they just go for the line which roughly bisects the landmass less Antarctica. 22:17:28 Anyway, "everywhere except for some of South America and Africa" is obviously unfair. 22:17:34 The northern hemisphere is definitely prettier, though. :p 22:17:35 lol 22:18:22 ITT: the secret culture bias towards north REVEALED. 22:18:25 "Fuller argued that in the universe there is no "up" and "down", or "north" and "south":" 22:18:35 and here I thought it was a ridiculous notion. 22:18:38 Was Fuller known for being generally crazy? 22:18:48 Phantom_Hoover: The term is "eccentric". 22:18:51 And yes. 22:18:54 I've kind of got him and Dyson confused. 22:18:59 There is. Up and down correspond to gravity. North and south celestial poles correspond to the Earth. 22:19:08 Unfair to whom? I don't think I know of many cultures complaining that they're second-class because of their north-south distinction. I think what pisses them off is all the oppression and genocide.~ 22:19:26 Do you know another idea of computer game? One of my other idea is, game based on story of events in D&D game I have been playing in. 22:19:40 "I'm put out by the social implications of my area's arbitrary placement in the world model." #firstworldproblems 22:19:53 the oppression is just a natural result of their southerliness 22:19:58 Clearly 22:20:01 Phantom_Hoover: He was super weird. 22:20:13 I can't bring myself to dislike him though? 22:20:24 he made a cool map. 22:20:27 what's to dislike? 22:20:30 He documented his life rather extensively. 22:20:36 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway I don't think that quote is necessarily nonsense with a charitable interpretation. 22:20:39 notice that he put AMERICA AT THE CENTER OF THE MAP 22:20:39 Writing in his diary every 15 minutes from 1920 to 1983. 22:20:40 BIAS 22:20:57 Phantom_Hoover: He's just saying there's no correct orientation of space. 22:20:57 'North' is unquestionably a well-defined, useful concept. 22:21:14 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, on the Earth. 22:21:15 And no, but there's definitely a privileged orientation of the surface of the globe. 22:21:20 * kallisti is going to make a map that can be construed to have absolutely no cultural bias 22:21:23 "the Universe" obviously means "in the entire Universe" here. 22:21:24 Basically, his life is the best documented we'll have until we start having constantly recording video cameras on everyone. 22:21:29 the landmasses of the world are scattered out on the perimeter 22:21:35 kallisti: Centered around Antarctica? 22:21:35 the center is antarctica. 22:21:37 yes 22:21:57 'The universe has no privileged directions, therefore any subset of the universe has no privileged directions!' 22:21:57 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Dymaxion_map_ocean2.png So, the oceanic Dymaxion? 22:22:04 Wait water doesn't actually spiral the wrong way out the sink in the southern hemisphere??? 22:22:07 Phantom_Hoover: I FEEL BETRAYED BY SCIENCE??? 22:22:28 It does in a very carefully-controlled sink. 22:22:30 Wait, maybe I should feel betrayed by John Linnell instead. 22:22:36 Maybe I'll just blame everyone. 22:22:46 pikhq_: maybe... 22:22:47 OK, centered around Antarctica might be OK, try that 22:23:20 colloinkgravisom: also bumblebees can fly 22:23:25 colloinkgravisom: do their toilets flush in the opposite direction? 22:23:30 this is the important thing 22:23:33 No. 22:23:36 NOOOOOOO 22:23:37 oerjan: Wait is that a thing I'm not supposed to believe? 22:23:57 Of course, over here our toilets don't have a direction when they flush. 22:24:04 colloinkgravisom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumble_bee#Flight 22:24:12 Phantom_Hoover: Things in the other hemisphere still look upside down though right? 22:24:14 colloinkgravisom: it has been proved by science that bumblebees cannot possibly fly, duh. 22:24:18 Yes. 22:24:28 * colloinkgravisom begins penning his autobiography, "Everything I Know About Spheres I Learned From Ana Ng" 22:24:41 NihilistDandy: Oh right that. 22:24:45 colloinkgravisom: :D 22:24:47 who's ana ng 22:24:57 oerjan: It's a song by They Might Be Giants. 22:25:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEjutUbgpH8 22:25:41 International link plz. 22:25:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dQLkxz6c2E 22:25:55 colloinkgravisom: do their toilets flush in the opposite direction? <-- yes, which is good since their toilets are upside down 22:25:58 (Supremely low quality.) 22:26:35 I don't want the world, I just want your half 22:32:55 Do you know how many species of bumblebee there are? 22:33:07 4.3 22:33:41 some hundred maybe 22:33:56 http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/research/projects/bombus/subgenericlist.html 22:33:57 "On the occasion of a leap second, such as at 23:59:60 on December 31, 2005, there is a one second pause before the beeps, thus keeping the speaking clock in sync with Coordinated Universal Time." 22:33:58 It's a lot 22:34:02 Phantom_Hoover: The most disorienting thing? 22:35:31 The checklist is apparently drawn from an unpublished catalogue of 2800 names 22:37:13 colloinkgravisom: Better than UNIX time. 22:38:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 22:38:28 hmmm, I wonder how SBCL gets such fast speeds from Lisp code. 22:39:01 hmmm, I wonder how gcc gets such fast speeds from C code. 22:39:14 colloinkgravisom: well, that's a bit more obvious than Lisp. 22:39:21 Not really. 22:39:35 GCC does some really insane shit to C. 22:39:39 Lisp is dynamically typed, for one. 22:39:44 so I'm wondering what it does 22:40:41 It probably lies a lot. Spacetime Bending Common Lisp 22:40:54 kallisti: Untrue. 22:40:59 Common Lisp has a type system. 22:41:06 As well as optional static declaration of types. 22:41:07 oh okay. 22:41:12 Lisp compilers rely on these in part to produce efficient code. 22:41:23 that makes more sense. 22:41:44 I was wondering why SBCL was faster than Haskell in the benchmark game; all the code probably uses static annotations. 22:41:47 (Not that they can't be inferred sometimes.) 22:41:48 *GHC 22:42:05 colloinkgravisom: that another possibility I considered. 22:42:08 There's an example in Practical Common Lisp of the difference in the assembly of a function with and without type declarations. 22:42:19 (declaim (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0) (debug 0))) 22:42:29 --pidigits.lisp 22:42:39 Type declarations are additional to that bit, though. 22:42:39 yikes!! 22:42:59 (the ) IIRC 22:43:35 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, 22:43:36 (loop with iterations of-type fixnum = (ash 1 (+ max-depth min-depth (- d))) 22:43:36 for i of-type fixnum from 1 upto iterations 22:43:36 sum (+ (the fixnum (check-node (build-btree i d))) 22:43:36 (the fixnum (check-node (build-btree (- i) d)))) 22:43:36 into result of-type fixnum 22:43:38 finally 22:43:40 (format t "~D trees of depth ~D check: ~D~%" 22:43:42 (the fixnum (+ iterations iterations )) d result)))) 22:43:44 Plus in the declarations of functions and structs, obviously. 22:43:52 (LOOP is so grand.) 22:44:22 kallisti: The Lisp programs are more readable than the Haskell ones. :p 22:44:30 ; 35: 4C8D1C25E0010020 LEA R11, [#x200001E0] ; GENERIC-+ 22:44:30 ; 3D: 41FFD3 CALL R11 22:44:40 Efficient. 22:44:46 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/program.php?test=pidigits&lang=ghc&id=4 ;; wow, not a single pointer manipulation! 22:45:14 Although I suspect that x86 insanity makes that faster than an explicit call. 22:45:19 Phantom_Hoover: I'm currently trying to comprehend the information that you've actually read, comprehended, and been interested in the various assembly outputs of a program under different amounts of optimisation. 22:45:32 Also, I doubt it. 22:45:35 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:46:00 colloinkgravisom: the Haskell you linked isn't too unreadable. 22:46:15 colloinkgravisom, I'm sorry, you said a lot of words just there but they didn't go into my brain. 22:46:20 kallisti: That's why Is aid "wow". 22:47:01 colloinkgravisom: NihilistDandy noted that quotRem appears to faster than divMod on x86 22:47:04 perhaps they should have tried that. 22:47:09 +be 22:47:10 ...no shit? 22:47:19 Of course it's faster, quotRem is a single machine instruction. Or, maybe two. 22:47:20 why would that be? 22:47:24 But they don't do the same thing. 22:47:26 -!- monqy has joined. 22:47:35 So replacing one with the other will hardly help if you care about the behaviour on negative numebrs. 22:47:36 numbers 22:47:36 colloinkgravisom: Don't they? 22:47:38 They do for nonnegative integers. 22:47:41 colloinkgravisom: ah yes, if negatives are important then yes. 22:47:48 Well, sure 22:47:59 Are they, for this application? 22:48:32 NihilistDandy: If they did the same thing, they wouldn't have two names :) 22:48:36 Phantom_Hoover: Dunno, I'd have to actually read the program. 22:48:42 NihilistDandy: If they did the same thing, they wouldn't have two names :) 22:48:44 Don't mention map/fmap. 22:48:51 lol 22:49:13 Excuse me, fmap does different things to map. 22:49:32 Phantom_Hoover: Um? 22:49:37 > map f [a,b,c] 22:49:38 Ambiguous type variable `b' in the constraints: 22:49:38 `GHC.Show.Show b' 22:49:38 a... 22:49:40 >_< 22:49:41 > map f [a,b,c] :: [Expr] 22:49:43 [f a,f b,f c] 22:49:43 > fmap f [a,b,c] :: [Expr] 22:49:44 [f a,f b,f c] 22:49:48 different 22:49:54 one is polymorphicer. 22:50:04 Sure, but try mapping over Maybe. 22:50:09 *on a 22:50:09 lol 22:50:12 Phantom_Hoover: kallisti: You're both morons. 22:50:13 Whatever. 22:50:16 (=) :: a -> a -> Prop 22:50:20 colloinkgravisom, no, I am being pedantic. 22:50:25 In (map = fmap), fmap is necessarily restricted to f ~ []. 22:50:29 It's called unification. 22:50:40 fmap does things map does not; hence, it does different things to map. 22:50:41 colloinkgravisom: but fmap has more POTENTIAL 22:50:42 maaan 22:50:55 We're talking about the things they do, not propositional equality. 22:51:10 Phantom_Hoover: Shut up English "plays Cave Story on easy" pansy. 22:51:15 THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG NOW, CHANNEL!!! 22:51:32 Pansy!! 22:51:38 colloinkgravisom, excuse me I showed with LOGIC that easy mode = Scottish mode on account of making everyone else English. 22:51:57 lol 22:52:16 Hard mode makes you English, of course. 22:52:30 Deewiant: Look at his rationalisation. 22:52:47 Deewiant: He even fixed the sprite back to being red (Cave Story+'s easy mode Quote is yellow apparently???) to hide his shame. 22:53:15 Hard Normal Daddy. 22:53:20 Red is SCOTTISH 22:54:01 kallisti: Yes, and? 22:54:26 NihilistDandy: Sometimes I just like to reference things to see if anyone knows wtf I'm talking about. 22:54:33 * kallisti is listening to it. 22:54:34 I do. 22:54:49 COOL 22:55:01 Squarepusher 22:55:05 normally I would then proceed to have some kind of conversation but I kind of need to eat food before I die. 22:55:08 yes that's the one. 22:55:12 Also, a good plan 22:55:19 *-, 22:55:25 Squarepusher??? Is that an esolang like the BYTEPUSHER the kids are drinking these days???????? 22:55:52 no squarepusher is a bit more retro these days. 22:56:08 Retrolangs.org 22:56:09 I thought I put enough question marks in to avoid being taken seriously ffs. 22:56:26 colloinkgravisom: never 22:56:49 colloinkgravisom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBvMMPd4lg SO RETRO 22:59:36 yes clearly you are shock. 22:59:41 this is why it is silent now. 22:59:53 enthralled by the groove. 23:00:42 kallisti: I am aware of the existence of Squarepusher, dude. 23:01:19 colloinkgravisom: I wasn't suggesting you weren't? it was obvious that you knew. YOUR HIPSTER CRED HAS NOT BEEN DISCREDITED. 23:02:25 let us all be friendship hipsters together. <3 23:02:47 We were friends before it was cool 23:03:09 We use a really obscure social networking utility. You've probably never heard of it 23:03:32 Augh I just used that snowclone in /msg in the hopes that it had been beaten to death enough for my use of it to be obviously joking. 23:03:33 I hate you NihilistDandy. 23:04:05 HIPSTERMEMEISONLYMEME 23:04:14 Don't call me Ariel, my name is Helvetica, no? 23:04:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:36 * kallisti goes by the name Lucida. Lucida Console. 23:06:00 Lucida Console would be a really good cyberpunk protagonist name. 23:07:23 colloinkgravisom: we you like to co-author a cyberpunk novella in which every character is the name of a typeface? 23:07:28 s/we/would/ 23:07:34 * Sgeo missed the Humble Bundle by minutes 23:07:42 Akzidenz Grotesk will be based on me 23:07:44 oh there's like a time limit on that shit? 23:08:17 Sgeo, eh. 23:08:54 How can the radio explode whenever it is turned on, except when the television is also turned on? 23:09:05 The only two worth a look were Cave Story+ and GSB; the former isn't really worth it given that the original's free, and the latter isn't as good as it sounds. 23:09:34 says the guy who plays it on easy.. 23:09:38 (ha ha ha) 23:10:05 Phantom_Hoover: But Super Meat Boy? 23:10:07 SMB wasn't worth a look? 23:10:18 kallisti: O, in the Vancouver Theatre Sports that is what they did, the character are named after typefaces, except for the main character, and the people who have not been given names for the story at all. 23:10:19 Oh, right. 23:10:28 Bloody outdated shaders. 23:10:39 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:13:24 SMB had a practically unsecured database for a backend 23:13:37 NihilistDandy: SO YOU'VE SAID 23:13:47 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:14:24 lol 23:15:48 NihilistDandy knows. He shaftinized it. 23:16:20 I'm getting my degree in shaftinization. 23:16:37 * Gregor nods sagely. 23:16:56 NihilistDandy's degree is actually in art history. 23:17:07 He hangs around here and #haskell to hide the shame. 23:17:08 OH THE SHAME~ 23:17:19 Sometimes you change your name? elliott still did not put it back how it was before? 23:17:44 I'm actually andreou. 23:18:24 My degree is in Mathematics with Spanish. 23:18:30 Phantom_Hoover: If so, why did you use a new account? 23:18:50 zzo38, I was tired of all of the responsibilities. 23:18:54 You know Aladdin? 23:18:57 Basically, that. 23:19:11 X-D 23:20:24 (Mathematics with Spanish was an actual choice offered by Warwick. 23:20:26 *) 23:20:29 It was astonishing. 23:20:32 wait 23:20:43 Some class of chess variants are named after typefaces, such as Schoolbook Chess and Univers Chess. I can suggest to make Computer Modern chess it has many parameter you have to decide before you play the game, each game they have a few different strategy and so on, too. 23:20:43 Ian Stewart is a professor at Warwick. 23:20:49 OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE 23:21:56 My brother is attempting to double major in math and playwriting. 23:22:27 Where I'm just going the more respectable route of plain old math. Possible double major in CS. 23:22:53 Can you major in writing plays about mathematics? 23:23:03 -!- cheater has joined. 23:24:03 One can only hope. 23:25:35 I'll bet if #esoteric banded together, we could make the time-travel game, and it would kick arse! 23:25:40 Chances of this happening: Zero! 23:28:06 I'll bet if #esoteric banded together, we could make an amazing amount of bickering. 23:28:15 If you are actually andreou then prove it! 23:28:41 fizzie: That too. 23:28:51 I'll bet if #esoteric banded together, ... that is difficult. 23:28:58 zzo38, I would, but there are too many integrals involved. 23:30:17 fizzie: what? we would never bicker 23:30:30 the fact that you would even make that grand assumption angers me greatly. 23:30:41 fizzie: the notion is absurd. 23:31:01 diiiiiiiiiiii 23:40:08 -!- calamari has joined. 23:40:49 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:41:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:52:31 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:55:04 I'd like to see something like the computer benchmark game except with restrictions on submissions to make them as "typical" as possible. 23:55:24 that would be doomed to even more subjectivity than the current one suffers from 23:56:03 well, I think it would more closely resemble the efficiency of well-written programs "in the wild" 23:56:22 that aren't micro-optimized to hell. 23:56:28 but 23:56:36 I mean on the part of the maintainer. 23:56:37 choosing the restrictions is difficult. 23:56:41 oh, yes. 23:56:46 f.e. he tends to reject programs that use too different algorithms, IIRC. 23:56:59 s/too // 23:57:01 Which is very subjective; some solutions use parallelism and some don't and that's accepted. 23:57:04 Gregor: See ^ 23:57:18 Mmm, fair enough. 23:57:37 * colloinkgravisom has grown to instinctively dislike the guy behind the benchmarks game because he tends to be a jerk on the internet. :p 23:58:10 (Admittedly, I probably wouldn't notice normal-sounding comments as much.) 23:58:52 colloinkgravisom: accepting parallelism makes sense because it allows you to compare the quad-core vs. single core case 23:59:05 and see how well a language takes advantage parallelism 23:59:14 +of 23:59:18 *implementation 23:59:26 kallisti: They're still algorithmic differences. 23:59:54 oh I see what you mean 23:59:57 yes it is arbitrary.