00:07:28 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: doop). 00:14:16 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:19:00 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:19:15 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:19:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:27:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:29:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:29:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:37:11 finish this analogy 00:37:24 Christianity:Windows::Wicca:? 00:40:52 Christianity has many distros 00:42:18 -!- DCliche has joined. 00:45:54 -!- Klisz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:46:27 -!- DCliche has changed nick to Klisz. 00:51:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:52:34 -!- calamari has joined. 00:53:50 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 00:57:57 Jafet: yes, true, but ignore that for now. is has the property that (a) the majority of religion-users in the western world use it and (b) it is very much targeted at the lowest common denominator, although there is latent potential for power users as well. 01:04:16 Shame you didn't go with Scientology. 01:04:21 Then I could finish it so easily. 01:04:39 ::Scientology:LoseThos 01:05:54 i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it 01:06:18 I'm inclined to go with OS/2. 01:06:32 Or perhaps FreeDOS. 01:07:16 but but, it needs to be an os which claims to be the modern revival of an os which windows brutally crushed 01:07:45 An OS/2 remake? 01:07:55 OS/2 is still maintained. 01:08:57 Modern Christianity has as many pagan elements as Christian elements 01:09:28 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:18:13 eek, reddit won't load, i haven't seen that in a while 01:36:25 How about that BeOS remake? 01:38:56 Not that BeOS really counts as "brutally crushed" in the "existed earlier but then" sense, more in the "tried to get going but then" one. 01:39:58 Jafet: Yes, I can understand. The religions are based on older traditions so that includes Christian as well as pagan (for various reasons; you might learn on Wikipedia) 01:40:36 I use FreeDOS at a Roman Catholic education center. 01:47:35 -!- elliott has joined. 01:47:51 01:05:54: i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it 01:47:54 paganism is "so esoteric and obscure"? 01:48:35 IT TOTALLY IS 01:49:24 01:06:18: I'm inclined to go with OS/2. 01:49:31 pikhq: For some reason I want to say that OS/2 is Zoroastrianism. 01:49:34 I know little about both. 01:49:54 01:36:25: How about that BeOS remake? 01:50:15 fizzie: It's called Haiku, dude, there's pretty much no chance it's not Buddhism? 01:55:32 A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. 01:56:42 That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. 01:56:50 `addquoet A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. 01:56:52 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addquoet: not found 01:56:56 `addquote A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. 01:56:58 762) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. 01:57:05 Haiku - "I can't believe it's not but.. Buddha". 01:57:12 MDude: You should write a book and call it Everything I Know About Wicca I Learned From Scooby Doo. 01:58:04 -!- cheater has joined. 01:59:23 Is there any operating system connected to to some earlier system that was hunted down in a manner similar to a witch hunt? 02:00:04 MDude: All I can think of is if SCO suceeded in DESTROYING LINUX and then someone started developing it again decades later. 02:00:10 That didn't happen though. (YET?) 02:00:21 Also, I heard about wiccans form other places, but figured it was mostly generic pagan stuff. 02:00:28 I don't think operating systems are hunted a lot. 02:00:45 Though I guess I thought a lot of pagan stuff was connected to witches. 02:00:50 They're too boring, and there's a huge barrier to entry so obviously illegal stuff doesn't tend to happen. 02:01:05 MDude: Isn't "witch" just generic pagan stuff these days? :p 02:01:36 I don't really know, it's not the kind of tihng I keep up with. 02:01:49 There is actually a witchcraft-themed linix, though. 02:02:50 I found it by looking up "Linux grimoire". 02:03:54 That just brings up Source Mage for me. 02:04:00 I suppose that counts as "witchcraft-themed". 02:04:04 -!- thatmentat has joined. 02:04:14 Greetings friends. 02:04:28 `welcome thatmentat 02:04:31 thatmentat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 02:04:43 i should point out that in some muslim states you can _still_ get executed for presumed witchcraft, i saw one mention from saudi arabia in a paper today 02:04:45 * elliott is a `welcoming machine of ruthless efficiency 02:05:05 oerjan: We sure are unifying the two definitions of esoteric here. 02:05:05 Well it doens't seem like it's themed after ancient Persian scholars. 02:05:19 oerjan: And apparently in Canada it is illegal to charge money for "witchcraft" stuff or something like that..... 02:05:53 elliott: In that case, you can probably unify a lot of stuff in certain ways for certain purposes 02:05:55 This is a chat room for programming languages? 02:05:55 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 one of our spambots just tweaked the colours it's using 02:06:03 "naw, i think red is better here" 02:06:06 zzo38: wrt that i read in britain (until recently?) it was not illegal to _be_ a witch but it was illegal to _pretend_ to be one 02:06:12 thatmentat: Yes. Even if it doesn't seem like it right now. 02:06:16 (Are you here for that, or the other kind of esoteric?) 02:06:19 *-that 02:06:25 er 02:06:28 *-*-that 02:06:31 oerjan: well they might burn someone by mistake 02:06:45 thatmentat: Yes, it is a chat room for esoteric programming but we discuss a lot of things here anyways 02:06:45 I came for the second. I haven't the patience to learn programming. 02:06:59 thatmentat: you probably won't find it on freenode, then 02:07:02 it's mostly technology-oriented 02:07:52 What is mostly tech oriented? 02:07:58 freenode, the IRC network you are on 02:08:07 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:08:23 But if you have a specific question (regardless of topic), you might ask. And then quit if you do not get an answer (unless it is a question about esoteric programming in which case stay) 02:09:17 thatmentat: alas we have never learned of a good irc channel to recommend for those who come here expecting the other interpretation of esoteric 02:09:44 oerjan: we should just make one and let them all trickle in, it'll be more active than this place within a year :P 02:09:52 that 02:09:52 heh 02:09:54 do that thing 02:10:01 I could use recommendations of other irc places though, even if not specifically esoterical. 02:10:07 I realized that if you define a monad transformer and/or comonad transformer then you can easily define return and extract as well the definition will always the be same: return = lift . return; extract = extract . lower; 02:10:16 elliott: well those guys who started #philosophy tried to do that, didn't they? how is it working? 02:10:23 send people to irc.dal.net #esoteric 02:10:26 ^ 02:10:29 it's not #philosophy, is it? 02:10:33 thatmentat: Oh, is that active? 02:10:41 it was a year ago i think 02:10:44 elliott: i thought it was _something_ like that... 02:10:45 more than not existing 02:10:53 * Users on #Esoteric: elliott thatmentat QueenAqua @^roshi marduk666 @Venus666 VenusSatanas_ Trollfood ami- Cocytus hippl^ 02:10:55 Cocytus again! 02:11:03 did that guy just join #esoteric on every server everywhere 02:11:16 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:11:22 elliott: that list looks promising, at least :P 02:11:23 I have an IRC server too, however it has no channels what you want probably and hardly anyone is in there 02:11:29 thatmentat: well, glad you've found somewhere 02:11:36 oerjan: <^roshi> thing is there are several streams of alchemy 02:11:38 oerjan: looks good :P 02:11:52 * elliott lurks. 02:12:08 What about alchemy? 02:12:10 let us know if anything above and beyond the usual pale of ridiculousness falls out 02:13:10 quintopia: thatmentat is still here, you know! :P 02:13:47 What are you talking about alchemy? 02:14:21 elliott: what's your point? 02:14:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | This is a programming channel; if you are looking for the other kind of esoteric you might try #esoteric on irc.dal.net | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:15:05 oerjan: hey i was going to _ask_ them first 02:15:14 -!- elliott has set topic: Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:15:15 elliott: well we can remove it again 02:15:33 oerjan: OK that is good. But still we discuss a various a lot of things in here. 02:15:52 I just joined ones that looked like they had people in them. 02:15:55 So, figure out, should that message be there or not? Maybe it makes too long? Or other reason? 02:16:07 * elliott asks them 02:16:08 I was curious. 02:17:05 Interesting response. I didn't think he would reject the idea elliott. 02:17:19 yeah that was out of left field :P 02:17:20 But note, once someone accessed this channel, and then quit, and then I had something about astrology and then they could not have their question answered because they missed it. But still, notice that we have more mathematical points of view so they might not have understood the answer anyways (maybe). 02:17:47 What are you talking about alchemy? <-- elliott was quoting an example message from the other #esoteric channel at dalnet 02:18:25 they refused? 02:18:33 quintopia: no, the guy misunderstood what i said 02:18:35 oh 02:18:57 What does "several streams of alchemy" mean anyways? Alchemy is what they did before they had proper science, they could do it like that they did not know things better or have better equipment to know better. Now we have chemistry 02:19:35 The idea is that there are several basic models for Alchemy I believe. 02:20:07 Alchemy as was being discussed goes beyond simply trying to manipulate materials. 02:21:01 `run echo "This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net." >wisdom/esoteric 02:21:03 No output. 02:21:07 `? esoteric 02:21:10 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. 02:21:44 elliott: Yes that way might be good idea instead of topic message, I supppose. 02:22:04 And then you can make a shortcut for those kinds of informations message. 02:22:12 the only thing that can successfully survive our constant topic changes is the log link :P 02:22:32 zzo38: as i understand, alchemy sometimes has a strong spiritual component aside from the chemistry - basically you are supposed to transform yourself at the same time as you are learning how to transform materials 02:23:10 when put like that, it sounds like you could possibly even make a modern version based on actual chemistry 02:23:21 oerjan: i'm afraid not: "It must never be supposed that the practice of alchemy consists only in the exercise of the mind, will, and imagination, or that the products obtained are imaginary and intangible or invisible to mortal eyes." 02:23:31 from a link posted in #esoteric while i was there :P 02:23:42 apparently you still need the physical materials, though. 02:23:57 elliott: "only" does not mean that it doesn't also involve that 02:24:02 oerjan: Yes, sometimes they did do spiritual things based on some ideas of alchemy. 02:24:06 oh, wait 02:24:08 must never be supposed 02:24:14 i completely negated that meaning 02:24:19 But I think it is "spiritual alchemy" instead of real alchemy. 02:24:55 hi gaiz 02:25:13 oh right. 02:25:15 -!- xxDarkProphetxx has changed nick to kallisti. 02:25:39 Now we have science so we don't need alchemy (except for the purpose of making up new alloys, sometimes, at least according to some opinions). 02:25:40 (that's /too/ much irony. I can't handle it) 02:27:11 zzo38: okay so I'm working on an IRC bot that is intended to assist tabletop RPGing over IRC. 02:27:12 Whatever the discussion in here, it often involves some scientific and mathematical stuff, sometimes. Because this is how the people in this channel are, in general. 02:27:33 kallisti: Yes I was doing so, too. I think one IRC server has a GS command to do that too 02:27:57 zzo38: should I use my native WoD terminology for concepts, or should I use D&D, or is there some standard terminology that isn't D&D? 02:28:13 most people say "gamemaster" and "campaign" where I would say "storyteller" and "chronicle" I think. 02:28:25 kallisti: I say "referee" in my opinion, at least. 02:28:36 D&D uses dungeon master sometimes, doesn't it? 02:28:38 that... no I don't like that. :P 02:28:38 For dice, just use 1d6+2 or whatever. 02:28:39 oerjan: yes 02:28:50 oerjan: game or dungeon master works. I think gamemaster is typically preferred. 02:29:00 oerjan: D&D usually calls "dungeon master" but you could use different terms. I prefer "referee" but use whatever you prefer. 02:29:01 but I honestly don't know much about D&D culture 02:29:13 because I don't play that game. 02:29:24 * kallisti likes "storyteller" 02:29:25 -!- thatmentat has left. 02:30:04 kallisti: Read the D&D recordings I wrote and learn about how I play the game, at least. 02:30:11 with a single game being a story, and a set of stories with recurring characters and themes being a chronicle. 02:31:02 kallisti: Yes, that is a sensible view. I consider the game (story) consisting of several sessions, which have both session breaks and chapter breaks, which might or might not coincide. 02:31:23 I think some IRC server, if you use the command "GS ROLL 1d6" for 1d6 roll dice, and so on. You can optionally include a channel afterward to copy the results to the named channel 02:31:39 * kallisti plans to incorporate a little bit more than a simple dice roller, since he already has that. 02:31:54 I plan on implementing dice rollers for each system, perhaps with the ability to track stats. 02:32:43 so that you can say: !roll Dexterity+Acrobatics+2 diff 6 02:32:44 @dice 3d6 + 1d20 02:32:44 3d6 + 1d20 => 27 02:32:45 for example 02:33:04 O, lambdabot already has 02:33:21 that doesn't work well with shadowrun and WoD systems 02:33:27 where you roll a large number of dice against a target number 02:33:37 @dice 1000d6 02:33:38 1000d6 => 3527 02:34:37 I have thought of a different system: referee rolls all the dice by hand; players don't, however some common text adventure abbreviations should be understood by the referee 02:34:56 zzo38: well yes I was planning to have options to allow the referee to roll everything 02:35:12 !roll with 02:35:13 for example 02:35:30 I don't know if the complexity is warranted though, for the average tabletop gamer. 02:35:31 kallisti: No, I mean by hand. Like, not on the IRC. 02:35:58 @dice 8d8 02:35:58 8d8 => 28 02:36:12 Do it slightly similar to a text adventure game. (Text adventure game are the closest kind of computer games to a role playing games, in my opinion) 02:37:10 zzo38: oh yes, I play that way as well. 02:42:31 Have a program that runs on the referee's computer, with a separate window and the IRC as well; it is connected to the IRC server so that someone can use PRIVMSG whatever :HELP and so on, and make file transfer of the data if wanted, in the computer data format, and then possibly to DVI to print as well 02:43:16 (Commands other than HELP and STATUS would not be accepted if you are not currently in a game session, I guess) 02:44:01 And everyone makes synchronized local copy of game data, with the main data on the referee's computer 02:44:19 While private data does not have to go into the program at all 02:45:57 I do have a channel in my IRC server for RPG sessions, and I might be able to add server scripts for a few of things you do in there, if I want to do so. 02:47:41 zzo38: I was going to make the entire thing public, but with access restrictions. 02:48:00 of course rolls can be done in private via privmsg 02:48:07 also entering stats 02:48:19 but a storyteller for a certain chronicle would have full access to every characters information. 02:49:00 Just do all commands by private; results can be copied to the channel if the game is in session. And then have data files access 02:49:05 * kallisti would also need to implement an authentication system to make sure that nicks are identified. 02:49:15 I haven't figured out how to do that with the bot framework I'm using in Perl. 02:49:21 kallisti: That is, for IRC servers that have that. 02:49:23 so I might have to rewrite the low-level bits. 02:49:58 And there are some differences between servers too. 02:50:44 * kallisti wishes he was still coding for that WoD MUD 02:50:50 I was going to do so many awesome things with their dice roller. 02:51:33 like having a huge weapon table to automatically handle damage rolls on firearms and melee weapons 02:52:09 The server scripting language for my IRC is called "Cthulhu.194" and this is an example file: http://sprunge.us/SNPD 02:52:11 you'd basically have to know even less about the system than you already did in order to play. 02:52:22 oh god what is this. lol 02:53:33 I assume it's called Cthulhu for a reason 02:53:51 (The WEBIRC command was originally built in to the server program. I removed that feature and then added a script to implement it instead. A script can have multiple command names to access it; this is defined in the configuration file) 02:53:56 I... can't tell if it's postfix or prefix. 02:53:58 it seems to change. 02:54:27 Sgeo: Yes, it is because I implemented the SUMMON command that no other IRC has. And then someone in this channel mentioned SUMMON CTHULHU and they don't like that or whatever, so I called it that. 02:56:29 kallisti: Actually it is all prefix, although a few things act like they are postfix. 03:00:15 Here is another script (currently active in my server; however you do not have permission to access it): http://sprunge.us/RAjB 03:00:20 The memory manager I wrote for class has O(n) access time :( 03:01:13 pro 03:03:59 at first I thought creating a weapons table for a dice roller would be a huge pain, BUT 03:04:27 now that I've got a little better at scraping stuff with perl, I can just steal something online and convert it into a desired format. 03:05:16 instead of manually writing "Colt Anaconda difficulty 6, damage 6, rate 2, clip 6, range 35, Colt Detective Special difficulty 6, damage 4, rate 4, ..." 03:05:24 and then eventually killing myself 03:05:54 Just write the numbers separated by commas and a semicolon at the end of each record, is another way 03:05:58 as I go through common models of revolvers, shotguns, semi-automatic pistols, machine guns, machine pistols, rifles, assault rifles, battle rifles, ... 03:08:00 there's even weapon data on fun stuff like jackhammers, industrial drills, war hammers, tridents, chainsaws, and crossbows 03:08:15 because.. I'm totally going to bring a trident to a gun fight. that's my character's preference. 03:08:36 kallisti: O, OK. But then it is not a proper gun fight, isn't it? 03:08:41 guess not. 03:09:06 actually, if you're playing as vampires, the rules actually make melee weapons feasible, as bullets are nowhere near as effective against vampires. 03:10:35 so, vampire+chainsaw could be a viable option against a squishy mortal + small pistol 03:11:28 Attention self: It is NOT ok for the starting address of each partition to be the number of the partition 03:11:58 .. 03:13:46 Sgeo, why did you 03:14:17 Read the character data that I recorded for D&D games if you want to see some information about it in case it helps you to write a program to store these kind of data (mine is D&D 3.5 edition; but make the program acceptable for many systems including but not limited to this one) 03:14:19 Madoka-Kaname, I didn't deliberately. It's a bug that I somehow didn't notice when testing yesterday 03:14:29 And if you have other questions about the system you can ask that too 03:14:53 zzo38! 03:15:13 hagb4rd: ? 03:15:18 zzo38: I'm going to work on shadowrun and world of darkness first as these are the systems I primarily enjoy, though it's difficult to find anyone who has an interest in those things. 03:15:20 what kind of "information"? 03:15:59 zzo38: basically each system will have mostly unique rules so I'm not going to generalize anything. Each dice roller will use its own special syntax. 03:16:20 each system will have different kinds of data in character tables, etc 03:16:30 kallisti: OK, do that first, then. But see what I have afterward, you might be able to make a more generalized system if necessary. I can also give a little bit of information about the Icosahedral RPG system since it uses a few special requirements for character data storage 03:16:33 I had .Count() instead of .Sum() 03:16:53 hey may i see your ad&d work zzo38? 03:16:57 zzo38: well some of the library code will be generalized. 03:17:07 kallisti: Yes, that is what I was about to suggest. 03:17:17 zzo38: to avoid tedium. The idea is that you could specify what a character sheet contains and the "create character" command would just refer to that in order to generate a blank sheet. 03:17:41 hagb4rd: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex 03:17:41 zzo38: and since it's all Perl I just let dynamic typing do its thing. 03:17:53 thank you 03:18:25 hagb4rd: It is a game story. If you want spells/feats/whatever I invented, I can show you those things too 03:18:57 kallisti: That was my idea with the Icochash program I wrote; however, I abandoned that and might later rewrite it, but not in PHP next time! Same thing with Icoruma, I might rewrite it in a faster programming language than PHP next time. 03:19:11 zzo38: why would you even consider PHP 03:19:23 yea.. actally yes.. i'm planning to write a irc-bot as a supporting device for pen & paper games over the net 03:19:23 zzo38: also why is performance important? 03:19:29 ...lol 03:19:35 SO MUCH CODE DUPLICATION 03:20:06 but the idea is you still need a game master and a story teller 03:20:12 and real roleplaying 03:20:14 kallisti: PHP is not very good but I have used it before. Next time I will use C or Haskell. And performance is good because when there are a large number of files it becomes slow 03:20:37 not if you just load everything into memory. 03:21:01 but zzo38 your link doesnt resolve in chrome 03:21:03 kallisti: Even if loading everything into memory, it is slow because it still has to load the files and parse them. 03:21:29 is tex like text in (la)tex? 03:21:30 at startup sure. or is this a web thing? 03:21:33 hagb4rd: Try adding "view-source:" to the front; that might work (I know it works in Mozilla; I don't know whether Chrome does or not) 03:21:48 kallisti: No, it is a standalone program, actually. 03:22:07 oh, well then parsing only adds to startup overhead. 03:22:11 and then everything is fine? 03:22:11 k lets do it that way then.. one need them all these days..*dumidum 03:22:12 hagb4rd: LaTeX is a format for TeX; this file is Plain TeX. 03:22:17 k 03:22:19 hagb4rd: what language do you want to use? 03:22:24 kallisti, elliott update 03:22:38 kallisti: Yes but it must reload every time you modify the input files in order to recompile them, and that makes it very slow 03:22:51 php or c# or sth in betwenn.. maybe all.. -> web services 03:22:53 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:22:53 dunno 03:22:56 Sgeo: I feel this intermission is a bit rushed, but nonetheless awesome to read. 03:23:13 hagb4rd: I thought it was an IRC bot and not a web-thing? 03:23:27 irc just as endpoint 03:23:33 to players 03:23:48 hagb4rd: oh, okay. 03:23:54 that's not a bad approach actually. 03:24:16 I'm used to MUDs though so I have absolutely no problems with a marginally complicated command interface. 03:24:20 a web interface would be convenient though. 03:24:37 im really not that far into how to implement things..and implementation will be trivial at all 03:24:48 I think it should not be a web interface; it should be MUD. But possibly add a Java web interface as an alternative. 03:24:50 +not (?) 03:24:59 (Some systems, such as FICS, do this) 03:25:14 its kind of operation research 03:25:25 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:25:27 commands simplify things for the implementation. Normal people will be scared though because OH MY GOD I HAVE TO LEARN SYNTAX. 03:25:54 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 03:26:06 it would be nice if players could extend the world its actors actions and stuff by writing some kind of easy readable xmlcode 03:26:08 kallisti: Then do what I specified; use MUD and then make a Java frontend as an alternative interface to use? 03:26:20 hagb4rd: It doesn't have to be XML, necessarily. 03:26:28 no it doesnt 03:26:32 as i mentioned 03:26:55 hagb4rd: are you familiar with MOO? 03:27:07 * Sgeo goes to make random access in his memory manager O(1) 03:27:23 im into designing the game itself.. + try to invent something revolutionary new and motivational 03:27:24 hagb4rd: Do you like the document I posted, now? Can you read it now? (You could just download it and open in a text editor, if necessary) 03:27:25 Sgeo: isn't that kind of redundant? 03:27:33 random access typically implies O(1) I thought. 03:27:34 yes exactly 03:27:35 :) 03:27:41 if it's O(n) or anything like that it's no longer random access. 03:28:08 I had the idea Icosahedral RPG too, is the new game; however, it is not a computer game. 03:28:45 * kallisti wishes MUDs were not quickly dying out 03:28:55 they are a good medium for multiplayer roleplaying games I feel. 03:29:17 Here are two examples of Icoruma input files: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/intro.irm http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/spells.irm 03:29:21 I definitely think they could use a modern interface, while still retaining the text-based medium. 03:29:24 there was a mud years ago which I believe still exists.. it had a huge map of middle earth and various towns and quests 03:29:29 but incorporating some mixed media. 03:29:41 kallisti: Then use MUDs if you like that way. I think just use the same protocol as the old way 03:29:52 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 03:30:03 zzo38: I'm kind of talking about a separate project 03:30:06 You don't need to incorporate some mixed media, I think. 03:30:07 anyways I almost got banned because I made a program that gave me a graphical map and could automatically navigate between towns 03:30:09 zzo38: my IRC bot is much simpler than a MUD 03:30:27 oh already bene noted 03:30:29 ;_; 03:30:37 calamari: those are fairly common in MUD clients. You don't even need to make one. 03:30:47 kallisti: this was a long time ago 03:30:53 kallisti: OK. Still, I think a MUD should be made the same way as the old way, possibly support alternative front-ends if they would help but allow any MUD client to continue working 03:30:59 calamari: also it's generally impossible to detect if you put a reasonable delay between moves. 03:31:06 Even a simple dumb MUD client should be acceptable. 03:31:19 kallisti: that's what I did lol 03:31:29 yes zzo38 at least i can grab it..will examine things later..im far behind tired 03:31:32 zzo38: I was thinking from the perspective of refreshing the community with new people. 03:31:33 need to sleep 03:31:57 kallisti: Well, add on new signals that are turned on when the client indicates support 03:32:00 far beyond 03:32:04 zzo38: though even with interface improvements most people are so attached to their big budget graphical games that they probably wouldn't adjust well to the text-based format. 03:32:10 kallisti: it added features too, where I could have virtual parties that existed.. the game didn't handle them, but we could track each other on the map via special private messages 03:32:16 zzo38: yes that's generally how it would work. 03:32:24 kallisti: was a lot of fun 03:33:00 zzo38: plenty of existing custom MUD clients are implemented over telnet and allow general clients. 03:33:04 But a dumb client supporting no signals other than text receive and command send, should still be acceptable. But also make the new clients with many new options and so on 03:33:42 one occasionaly problem is that many MUD clients are not actually legitimate telnet clients 03:33:54 I implemented this as a modem program actually... had to dial up to my unix shell account in order to telnet 03:34:15 in ms-dos of course, lol 03:34:17 but it's not a huge problem. You just send them something telnety and if they don't respond with something telnety then you just treat them like a basic socket and dump text (maybe with ANSI codes if the option is turned on since most clients support those) 03:34:48 so it was actually layers of hacks.. oh well.. it worked and it was fun 03:34:49 kallisti: Well, yes, if it is a telnet then you should handle backspacing and those things at the server too. 03:34:55 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 03:34:57 zzo38: there are actually some "mud protocols" that exist that allow mixed media and the like, but they're generally bad and not well supported. 03:35:04 But if it is a dumb linemode client, then use that. 03:35:41 kallisti: I remember back in the day that some bbses supported extra codes where if you had the right client you'd get a graphical gui 03:35:51 it was lame overall tho 03:36:16 just made it slower and didn't really add much since it was just showing the same info 03:36:52 well let's see how xfce compares against lxde.. bbl 03:37:22 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:45:27 -!- calamari has joined. 03:52:43 I have two lists of words 03:53:16 A and B, split by newlines. what's the fastest way in bash to display the words in A that aren't in B? 03:57:27 My memory manager is demented! Yay! 03:57:37 Probably due to the hastily conceived "random access" idea 03:57:43 * kallisti found the solution to his problem as well: use perl instead of bash 03:57:51 Or, well, poor implementation thereof 03:57:53 was gonna say that :p 03:58:11 quintopia: sometimes I wonder why I even try to use bash. 03:58:24 I get the misguided notion that I'm going to be faster with it if I get the hang of it. 03:58:27 but I'M NEVER GOING TO UNDERSTAND BASH 03:58:53 kallisti: probably bad elliott influence ;P 03:59:09 wat 03:59:10 faster to write? or faster computed? 03:59:13 to write. 03:59:29 yeah I'm all about the BREAKNECK SPEED of my simple automated tasks. 03:59:55 I want them to be UNNOTICEABLE FRACTIONS OF SECONDS FASTER 04:00:09 Icoruma has a few features I would like to see in other programming languages, such as wildcard includes. I don't know of other programming languages that have that. 04:00:23 show 04:00:31 oerjan: wat 04:01:53 elliott: see: certain HackEgo commands i rewrote 04:02:42 >_> 04:03:58 The idea of what exactly a "mana" is in Icosahedral RPG could also be used in other games too if you want to. 04:06:59 (Among other things, it is a commutative monoid, with five primes.) 04:14:29 I think, in the XOR monoid, True is prime. Is it? 04:18:39 .... I think, my professor's default fixed partition memory manager allocates an unneeded partition 04:33:27 elliott, kallisti, update 04:33:46 oh. 04:35:53 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:47:40 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:12:38 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 05:13:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:14:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:15:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:33:10 What is the property of applicatives for which this applies: () <$ x = pure () for any x of this applicative type 05:34:24 zzo38: sounds like the equivalent of commutative monads 05:34:40 possibly equivalent to (f <$> a <*> b) = (flip f <$> b <*> a), I think 05:37:02 O, is that what commutative monads means? Your condition seems to me like commutative applicative? 05:37:46 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:38:05 something like that, yes :P 05:38:15 commutative monad is stronger i think 05:38:22 a >>= \x -> b >>= \y -> f x y = b >>= \y -> a >>= \x -> f x y 05:38:23 apparently 05:38:31 oh 05:38:35 do { a <- mb; b <- mb; f a b } 05:38:35 = 05:38:39 do { b <- mb; a <- ma; f a b } 05:38:43 that's easier to read :P 05:41:08 Is that similar but after join? 05:43:03 right 05:53:57 `style 05:54:00 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: style: not found 05:54:01 ^style 05:54:01 Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 05:54:04 ^celebrate 05:54:04 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 05:54:05 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 05:54:05 |\ /| /| | |\ /`\ /| | /< >\ /'\ 05:54:05 (_|¯´¯|_) /´\ 05:54:05 (_| |_) 06:50:51 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 06:59:09 so can a single string draw the edge of a mobius strip? 06:59:19 it seems kind of wild to imagine 06:59:44