00:03:17 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]). 00:08:03 Is this a spambot or something? I just got a user talk page message from Phantom Hoover about the BF-inspired languages, the "brick brain brochure." 00:08:09 Phantom_Hoover: YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES 00:08:15 http://www.google.com/search?q=do+a+barrell+roll 00:08:31 ais523, OH NO 00:08:37 QUICK SOMEONE GIVE ME A TURING TEST 00:08:59 Phantom_Hoover: are you a robot? 00:09:32 olsner, no. 00:09:43 ok, you pass the test 00:10:08 ais523, please inform Star651 of my credentials. 00:10:49 Phantom_Hoover: I've explained that it's an inside joke 00:12:41 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:14:28 -!- itidus21 has joined. 00:17:30 well it's a joke until he snaps, anyway. 00:17:45 brick brain? 00:18:07 See the brochure. 00:22:25 i think Phantom_Hoover considers that an upgrading procedure. 00:22:31 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:24:14 oh, Star651 also top-posts, it seems 00:24:42 * olsner always top-posts 00:24:45 Huh? 00:24:54 just to stick it to the complainers about top posts 00:24:55 * oerjan swats olsner -----### 00:25:02 they are the problem, not top-posts 00:25:21 olsner: hater's gonna hate 00:26:16 I top-post whenever everyone else is top-posting because inconsistency makes me die 00:27:00 monqy: I edit my quote of the other person's post into one that uses wrapping and quoting correctly before answering it 00:27:36 dedication 00:29:40 and/or a waste of time :P 00:29:54 it makes it easier for me to read! 00:30:38 elliott dammit 00:30:45 Phantom_Hoover, kallisti, UPDATE 00:31:22 Dialoglog! 00:32:47 What's everyone got against top-posting? 00:36:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:26 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 00:41:35 Phantom_Hoover: Context without back come ever you if read to hard things makes it. 00:45:20 * Phantom_Hoover ā†’ sleep 00:45:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:48:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:48:45 Why are crank physics theories always nuts. 00:49:10 They're never fun little mathematical models which don't actually square with reality; they're invariably completely off the hook. 00:49:52 fond memories of vortex math 00:50:09 Exactly! 00:50:24 -!- Ngevd has joined. 00:50:44 I thought it was going to be all vectors and stuff, not deeply misunderstood modular arithmetic! 00:51:29 vectors are deeply misunderstood modular arithmetic, from a certain point of view. 00:52:10 oerjan if this is going to turn into some crazy group theory crap... 00:52:14 Or worse, category theory. 00:52:21 * copumpkin chimes in 00:52:22 no no, crazy ring theory. 00:52:45 Phantom_Hoover: some of the alternative explanations for dark matter uses different formulas for gra[Cvitation 00:53:12 vector spaces are modules over a field 00:53:12 copumpkin, please tell me "category theory" pings you. 00:53:28 lol no 00:53:33 Rings are basically groups with bits stuck on. 00:54:23 Also can you produce all vector spaces from the rings associated with Z_n? 00:54:33 Wait those aren't even all rings. 00:54:38 it is possible "module" and "modular" have the same origin, even. i'm not sure. 00:54:50 yes they are all rings. just not all fields. 00:55:07 Ah. 00:55:37 only Z_p for prime p are fields, which is a rather small selection of all fields. 00:56:03 They have the same cardinality! 00:56:20 wat 00:56:25 i agree with oerjan 00:56:30 Z_p vs. Z_n. 00:56:49 each Z_n has cardinality n. 00:57:13 I mean {Z_p} vs. {Z_n}. 00:57:32 oh well. it's still a small subset of all _fields_. 00:57:52 of which there are uncountably many, in fact to-big-to-be-a-set many. 00:58:39 *too- 00:58:51 The swephexp.h file does not entirely agree with the documentation 00:59:14 oerjan, damn you, ZFC! 00:59:20 * Phantom_Hoover ā†’ sleep 00:59:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:59:46 also Z_p are the prime fields of characteristic p. there is also the prime field of zero characteristic, aka the rationals. 01:02:17 i see by googling it's a little inconsistent whether that is included in the definition of prime field. 01:09:34 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:10:29 Huh. It turns out my keyboard can, without too much difficulty, play a note 6 octaves below middle C, or 7 octaves above. 01:11:47 well done! my keyboard only does clicks 01:11:50 Soooooooo useful. 01:12:13 my keyboard does clacks. it's okay. 01:13:16 My other keyboard just goes pitter-patter. 01:13:30 Actually, it can also play a note 6 octaves below middle C. You just need a wristwatch to do it. 01:24:02 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:24:45 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:35:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:53:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:53 Documentation for Swiss Ephemeris seems to have a lot of mistakes in it. Do you know of any other ephemeris programs with free software licenses? 01:58:17 so uh, in Python, does r+ truncate on write? 01:58:22 or is it append? 02:13:21 it seems to be a bit useless to be able to read from a truncated file 02:15:12 kallisti: Neither. 02:15:45 As that's just a naive wrapper around ISO C fopen, "r+" opens the file for reading and writing, with the file pointer at the beginning of the file. 02:15:51 Erm, stream pointer. 02:15:55 Let's not be confusing. ;P 02:23:27 -!- Klisz has joined. 02:25:50 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:30:52 pikhq: ah okay 02:31:07 so a full read of the file followed by subsequent writing will be very similar to writing in append mode. 02:31:21 but writing before reading will probably do horrible things. 02:33:36 naive? 02:35:28 ? 02:40:54 pikhq: uh... how do I route stdout and stderr to the same file and in chronological order. 02:41:01 I tried > log.txt 2> log.txt 02:41:06 but the order is weird. 02:42:08 I also tried 2>&1 > log.txt but that didn't seem to work either. 02:43:01 >log.txt 2>&1 02:43:16 And learn how shell redirection works. :-) 02:43:24 shachaf: how does it work? 02:43:27 :) 02:44:07 also I found &> which does what I want. 02:44:15 magnets. 02:44:42 kallisti: You should still learn how shell redirection works. 02:44:46 shachaf: it doesn't really make any sense to me that the order of redirects would matter. 02:44:57 Why not? They're "executed" in order. 02:45:08 Otherwise how would you, say, swap stdout and stderr? 02:45:30 ah okay. so bash is weird and sequential and not declarative. okay got it. 02:45:41 -!- augur has joined. 02:45:48 redirection is assigning of file descriptors. 02:45:53 Yes. 02:47:21 shachaf: obviously you use the flip command to swap stdout and stderr 02:47:45 flip find . -type f -name *porn* -delete 02:47:58 "sequential" and "declarative" are hardly antonyms, by the way. 02:48:17 well sure 02:50:14 shachaf: um, how does that help you swap stdout and stderr? also how is that a valuable use case? 02:50:33 kallisti: You might need to use 3. :-) 02:51:31 what is 3 again. 02:53:25 You can use any number of file descriptors. 02:53:50 foo 2>&3 1>&2 3>&1 02:54:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 02:54:19 are they not normally taken by other things? I thought 0, 1, and 2 were special and others referred to specific files. 02:54:25 or, could possibly refer to those files. 02:54:52 0, 1, and 2 are special and others are allocated by various system calls. 02:55:23 oh okay, I think I was confusing file handle with file descriptor. 02:55:45 each process has its own set of file descriptors 02:56:25 Yes. Also, each process inherits the set of file descriptors from its parent. 03:00:03 why do blank copies of files keep appearing in nautilus 03:00:16 with exactly the same name as their counterpart. 03:01:14 ah ls reveals that they have a ? at the end of their name, but the ? isn't displayed. 03:02:19 That sounds like a Nautilus bug. 03:03:07 Also, I'd be willing to bet that's not ? but either an invalid UTF-8 sequence or a character you don't have a font for. 03:03:33 possibly 03:17:27 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 03:18:28 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 03:19:10 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:23:48 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 03:30:55 The most annoying thing about YouTube's new look is that the box in the corner telling you about its new look keeps reappearing X_X 03:34:14 Gregor: doesn't for me. do you have an account? 03:34:22 Yup 03:34:27 it only mentioned it once for me. hm 03:35:10 Honestly, /everything/ about the new look is rife with awesome. I am on the new YouTube look bandwagon. I'm not one of these "oh Facebook changed I want the old one waaaah" whiners. 03:35:14 BUT I want that damned box gone :P 03:35:25 the new look is awesome, yes. 03:35:35 I basically now go to youtube instead of facebook when bored. 03:35:42 as far as homepage 03:35:53 before I would go to youtube if I had something specific I was looking for 03:36:02 but now I just subscribe to shit and await new things to appear. 03:36:07 +for 03:36:24 I have a bunch of subscriptions. The old sub-boxes were really confusing because they were sorted by most recent upload, but showed all recent uploads, so there was no single view of time. 03:38:31 Mind you, the fact that it now by default shows every time someone you've subbed to posts a comment, likes a video or picks their nose is really obnoxious, but that's one check-box away. Ironically, one check box that it seems to remember for me, unlike the nagbox in the corner >_> 03:55:13 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:00:46 Are file descriptors 0 and 1 and 2 special or are they just assigned standard meanings? 04:06:42 zzo38: Is that an exclusive or? 04:06:49 They're special because they're assigned standard meanings. 04:06:57 You can close them and use them for whatever you want, though. 04:09:58 The only special thing about them is that they are stdin, stdout, and stderr by convention. 04:10:20 And this is implemented by attaching the other ends of them to the terminal. 04:15:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:21:34 Well, yes. 04:22:57 pikhq: Yes that is what I meant by my question 04:29:46 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:30:40 -!- itidus21 has joined. 04:48:48 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 04:49:31 -!- itidus21 has joined. 04:53:33 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 04:55:59 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:58:41 -!- itidus21 has joined. 05:17:05 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 05:38:22 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:45:00 Y'know, I think the Zimbabwe dollar has more value now than it ever did when it was an official currency. 05:45:28 Simply because people go "$100,000,000,000,000 bill? Sweet!" 05:45:41 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 05:45:57 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:45:58 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 05:45:58 -!- quintopia has joined. 06:06:53 -!- Klisz has joined. 06:35:47 I didn't know that 06:36:08 ?thank you thanks 06:36:09 Maybe you meant: thank you thanks 06:36:24 Hey, #esoteric, is there any language that implements conditional and/or indirect comefrom? 06:36:42 shachaf: I think some variant of INTERCAL have 06:37:49 Oh, all I needed to do was look it up. 06:37:49 Seems C-INTERCAL does. 06:38:34 So you have to use a special-purpose conditional. 06:50:14 -!- itidus21 has joined. 06:58:45 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:02:18 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 07:12:01 -!- itidus21 has joined. 07:15:31 -!- derrik has joined. 07:31:56 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:58:03 -!- Ngevd has joined. 07:59:53 I could make "lower" and "cohoist" for a few of the transformers in the transformers library, and I could make some of them like "instance Monoid s => Extend (StateT s Identity)" and whatever but I don't know if it can make for any arbitrary comonad instead of only Identity 08:01:22 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 08:06:29 Do you have any idea how? 08:44:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:45:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:48:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Did you know that you are reading this sentence?). 08:49:29 kallisti, update 09:15:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:18:28 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host). 09:18:29 -!- fizzie has joined. 09:18:29 -!- fizziew has quit (Changing host). 09:18:29 -!- fizziew has joined. 09:18:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:19:23 -!- kmc has joined. 10:00:27 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:08:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:26:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:26:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:26:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:27:34 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:29:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:45:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:38:44 -!- cheater_ has joined. 12:30:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:42:16 * oerjan notes that in today's square root of minus garfield, it's not clear whether the transformation applies per panel or throughout the strip, not even in the alternative version. this is because each original panel has "a" as the first vowel and "e" as the last one. 12:43:08 (http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/) 12:47:56 Sgeo: updootlbreet 13:05:45 Sgeo: GEE I WONDER WHO THE HERO OF DOOM COULD BE. 13:24:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:27:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:38:09 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:38:17 Hello! 13:38:37 o hell 13:38:47 Norway or Jamaica? 13:39:25 s/Jamaica/Cayman Islands/ 13:40:02 well the one in norway is less than an hour from here, so... 13:40:04 -!- derdon has joined. 13:40:09 Fair 'nuff 13:40:15 I had an idea for an esolang 13:40:25 It's pretty eso, I need to work on the lang 13:40:35 Phantom_Hoover: get ready with the brick! 13:40:51 I've had a brick trained on Ngevd for some time now. 13:41:17 It involves a number of ants on a varying length Möbius strip 13:41:48 Could still be a heavily-disguised BF derivative. 13:42:12 The ants move at different speeds according to a polynomial that is associated with each ant individually 13:42:43 When they meet, something happens, depending on whether they are in the same direction or "side" 13:42:48 That's as much as I have 13:44:10 Overly time-dependent, would not buy again. 13:44:17 Maybe if I let the ants breed? 13:44:44 Maybe. 13:45:02 Of course, that would be horrible ant biology 13:45:12 And it's still not langy enough 13:45:29 Ngevd: side? 13:45:33 mobius strip is one-sided. 13:45:38 Hence "side" 13:46:29 If you cut a little bit the ants are on off, that gives you sides 13:49:13 So two ants can be in the same location on a physical strip, but cannot see eachother due to the tape being in the way 13:50:22 I am going to write up a detailed spec shortly 14:00:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:03:40 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:08:53 is 1/0 = Infinity in Haskell an arbitrary decision? 14:09:03 Yes 14:09:10 For example, compare: 14:09:14 > div 1 0 14:09:15 *Exception: divide by zero 14:09:27 Actually wait 14:09:35 It could be to do with the spec for 14:09:39 Float 14:10:16 no it's not part of the IEEE standard 14:10:53 > divMod 1 0 14:10:54 *Exception: divide by zero 14:10:57 @type div 14:10:59 forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a 14:11:06 @type (/) 14:11:07 forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a 14:11:09 > div' 1 0 14:11:10 *Exception: Ratio.%: zero denominator 14:13:34 I was just wondering if it had any basis in anything. 14:14:06 or if it was chosen.... just cuz lolz 14:14:13 kallisti: it's just ghc following IEEE floating point, it's not even mandated in the standard 14:14:25 (haskell standard) 14:14:30 oerjan: so how is that following IEEE floating point if it's not mandated? 14:14:32 oh.. 14:14:33 okay. 14:14:40 okay so then.... my question remains 14:14:46 as I never mentioned GHC 14:14:50 although there _is_ a function to check if your floating point type is IEEE compatible 14:14:54 :t isIEEE 14:14:55 forall a. (RealFloat a) => a -> Bool 14:14:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:15:12 > isEEE (1/0) 14:15:13 Not in scope: `isEEE' 14:15:19 > isIEEE (1/0) 14:15:20 True 14:15:27 > isIEEE (0/0) 14:15:28 True 14:15:31 hmmm, okay. 14:15:33 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:15:39 kallisti: i mention ghc because anyone could make a compliant haskell implementation where Double was _not_ IEEE. 14:15:58 > isIEEE (undefined :: Double) 14:15:58 True 14:16:02 so... the whole infinity negative infinity thing /is/ compatible with IEEE? 14:16:04 it only looks at the type 14:16:19 kallisti: mandated by 14:16:32 * kallisti couldn't find where it was mandated in the wikipedia article 14:16:34 afaik 14:16:44 hmm 14:16:46 okay well... is that decision arbitrary? 14:16:53 the IEEE decision to make 1/0 infinity 14:17:29 while a mobius strip is one-sided, one can still pierce it at any point with a needle, and stick a red clump on one end of the needle and a white clump on the other end 14:18:02 and say, position red clump on the strip is in some relationship with position white clump 14:18:42 but i don't know if this is relevant 14:18:52 It is 14:19:05 I think I will use that argument in my spec 14:19:05 hm maybe it _isn't_ mandated then 14:19:20 oerjan: I can't find out because I have to PURCHASE THE STANDARD WTF 14:19:29 ah right. 14:19:36 Taneb: yay 14:20:01 when i become world dictator i will make all non-freely available standards illegal, have no fear. 14:20:07 but the division you saw causing an exception instead of infinity was not a floating-point operation, why is IEEE involved in your integer divisions? 14:20:28 it's not 14:20:32 we're talking about floating point division 14:21:02 I'm asking "is the decision that positive/0 = infinity arbitrarily chosen by or is it grounded in some kind of sane mathematical reasoning" 14:21:40 is it a decision? :> 14:21:45 yes 14:22:08 ah. 14:22:11 > 1/0 14:22:12 Infinity 14:22:15 someone decided that would happen. 14:22:24 > 0/0 14:22:25 NaN 14:22:32 Hang on 14:22:38 i'm remembering now that mathematics can't just suppose things to be natural 14:22:39 I think it is mathematical 14:22:55 How many zeros do you need to add together to make 1? 14:23:02 I know it's based on limits. 14:23:08 te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:15 You can add all your life and not get there 14:23:21 Therefore 1/0 is infinite 14:23:29 `addquote < itidus21> te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:33 god damnit irssi 14:23:35 quit that shit 14:23:37 758) < itidus21> te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:45 `delquote 758 14:23:49 ā€‹*poof* < itidus21> te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:55 `addquote te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:58 758) te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:23:59 yay 14:24:08 c'est indefatigueable 14:24:19 > 1/((-1)/0) 14:24:20 -0.0 14:24:29 er 14:24:42 `delquote 758 14:24:46 ā€‹*poof* te most amazing thing about mathematics is that you can prove anything 14:24:47 kallisti: I probably misunderstood what the disagreement was... I thought someone was arguing that 1/0 isn't infinity in haskell 14:24:50 > 1/(1/((-1)/0)) 14:24:50 -Infinity 14:24:51 > 1/((-1)/0) == (0 :: Float) 14:24:52 True 14:24:57 olsner: no there's no argument 14:25:00 it was kind of just a question. 14:25:04 > (-0.0) == 0.0 14:25:05 True 14:25:10 no argument!? how boring :( 14:25:19 > show (-0.0) 14:25:20 "-0.0" 14:25:20 yes, just friendly discussion. so lame! 14:25:27 i think kallisti is asking what is the proof that 1/0 is infinitty 14:25:36 well no, not really. 14:25:36 kallisti: when calculating division by zero, +0 is treated differently from -0. 14:25:46 In other news, Gregor just reached level 23 14:25:57 :) 14:26:00 * kallisti is asking for the rationale of the decision. 14:26:17 > 1(-0) -- this may not count though, hm 14:26:18 1 14:26:18 kallisti: just to set things straight... i know nothing about math 14:26:20 er 14:26:22 not necessarily it's mathematical truth under some algebraic structure 14:26:23 > 1/(-0) -- this may not count though, hm 14:26:24 -Infinity 14:26:27 Oooooh, so did ais523 14:26:27 oh it does 14:26:43 so.. i just pretend basically 14:27:21 oerjan: according to wikipedia the only thing it mentions is that division by zero should return NaN under IEEE 14:27:37 so... I'm just wondering where and why this decision came about to allow infinity and negative infinity 14:27:42 the background of it, basically. 14:27:46 since when does IEEE dictate math :> 14:27:52 it doesn't. 14:28:17 hmm. i guess it steps in when trying to represent math with a computer 14:28:38 ding! 14:28:56 dewjdoiwejiod let's refer back to my original statement "just to set things straight... i know nothing about math" .. i can only dig my hole deeper 14:29:16 kallisti: where does it mention that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754-2008 does mention infinities, barely. 14:30:09 oh.. 14:31:24 I'm blind. :P 14:32:43 oerjan: I ask because I just got into an argument of the arbitrariness of 1/0 = infinity in Haskell 14:33:00 and I made things worse by saying 2 + 2 = 4 is arbitrary. :P 14:33:11 and they went into this whole "appeal by intuition" thing and I was just like "bluuuuuh what have I done" 14:36:15 Now monqy is level 23! 14:36:57 oerjan: oh I misinterpreted. It just specifies a division by zero exception. 14:37:07 apparently Haskell doesn't like exceptions. 14:37:09 I think that's all my Pokémon 14:37:59 Wait, Vorpal 14:38:30 Is still level 22 14:39:43 kallisti: i recall a discussion once where someone mentioned ghc would go haywire if you tried to change its floating point default settings 14:40:07 they're just too deeply assumed 14:41:04 for one thing, the underlying C mechanism is imperative and would conflict with haskell's purity assumptions. 14:43:00 well C or assembly 14:43:49 I do think the lack of an exception in those situations kind of undermines the assumption that division by zero is an invalid operation and should error out or something. 14:46:31 anyone who _assumes_ things about floating point without actually knowing gets what they deserve. 14:47:02 Haskell: a merciless language 14:47:11 this is not about haskell. 14:48:46 no, but it is about Haskell being merciful. :> 14:48:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sorry, have to go kill a housemate.). 14:48:52 :> :: > : > : > : > :: > : > : > : : 15:06:41 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: gone for good). 15:26:51 Apparently my real name is henceforth "null Kallasjoki". 15:27:29 I once got booked into a hotel under the name of Random 15:29:08 derrik: we'll miss you 15:47:33 back 15:47:41 `welcome 15:47:43 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 15:47:51 Were you ever front? 15:48:24 Taneb: just to follow up on my last statement, so if you were to stab such a needle into a regular "side" such as a chessboard, the needle would emerge somewhere else on the chessboard 15:48:29 rather than piercing the board 15:48:51 Are you talking about MĆ¶bius strips? 15:48:55 Yes 15:48:59 And I'm Taneb 15:49:02 This will not do 15:49:06 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 15:49:10 oh.. 15:49:13 MĆ¶bius strips suck, the RPP is where it's at. 15:49:22 i didn't realize ngevd and taneb was the same person 15:49:37 We're not 15:49:47 I just use his computer sometimes 15:50:02 aha. 15:50:39 i don't have any understanding of the meaningful implications of what i'm saying outside of their immediate meaning 15:51:42 Taneb is Ngevd's imaginary twin. 15:52:12 No, that's elliott 15:53:25 i kind of wish i had a tape measure like strip of paper for experimenting on the idea 15:53:35 Ngevd, he's your evil twin. 15:53:43 i suppose i can build 1 15:53:44 Oh yeah 15:54:00 (Your imaginary twin lives in Spellgammon.) 15:56:40 When I was in the shower earlier today I began thinking about BytePusher 15:57:54 I was thinking how I could make Hunt the Wumpus 15:58:15 During that, I think I may have worked out a way to do rudimentary arithmetic 15:59:27 And a PRNG 15:59:31 ish 16:02:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:02:43 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:04:30 so the mobius strip i created has 34 cells on it numbered 1 to 34, and there are correspondances 1 - 18, 2 - 19, 3 - 20, ..., 15 - 32, 16 - 33, 17 - 34 16:05:27 zipWith (\a b -> (show a) ++ '-':(show b)) [1..17] [18..34] 16:05:31 > zipWith (\a b -> (show a) ++ '-':(show b)) [1..17] [18..34] 16:05:32 ["1-18","2-19","3-20","4-21","5-22","6-23","7-24","8-25","9-26","10-27","11... 16:06:08 So, a links to (a + 17) mod 34 16:07:40 informative flow chart: http://www.lolhappens.com/4520/does-it-move/ 16:26:31 -!- elliott has joined. 16:44:36 elliott: do you know anything about nondeterministic finite automata? 16:44:48 the formal definition says that the transition function is Q x E -> P(Q) 16:44:53 Like Befunge-93? 16:45:01 does that mean that it's possible for the transition function to result in an empty set on a symbol state pair? 16:45:08 if so, what does that mean? 16:47:06 based on the rules for accepted inputs I'm guessing it means that the input is rejected 16:47:09 if it's possible. 16:47:38 i would presume so 16:47:40 ask oerjan 16:47:53 (diff) (hist) . . Language listā€ˇ; 21:42 . . (+144) . . 149.255.39.26 (Talk) (It'd be kinda like the group blog idea, but with more of a "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" vibe. And who didn't love playing that? :), http://aishwaryaraiporn1.typepad.com aishwarya rai porn,) 16:47:56 r[i+1] ā Ī”(r[i], a[i+1]), for i = 0, ..., nā’1 16:47:57 well that's the best idea i ever heard of 16:48:13 if the delta function returns {} then obviously that condition for an accepted input is false. 16:56:57 -!- kallisti_ has joined. 16:58:12 hey tetris lovers out there..if you liked the nes version you should go and try this beautigful weird retr-o-mod: http://firstpersontetris.com/ 16:58:43 its kinda different..oyess 16:59:14 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:59:51 this is fun but not really first person 17:00:02 first person would be much more confusing 17:01:12 well if thats not confusing enough for you dear elliott..try night mode :) 17:01:33 heh, that's fun 17:01:52 but first person tetris would designate one face of one block of the piece as the "eye" 17:01:57 and you'd actually be looking down at the rest of the board 17:02:02 or up or whatever 17:02:54 sure..guess its part of of the joke to suggest such expectations 17:02:57 however 17:03:13 existential crisis night mode is good 17:03:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:04:00