< 1323129600 378064 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is what oerjan's saying supposed to make sense or am I juts realyt iresd < 1323129608 367278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might just be stupid < 1323129625 967760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :canw e redact the logs so i can say shit to kallisti and he can't prove it when he's slept < 1323129629 455331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be fun < 1323129716 962343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just get confused when I try to regex substitute and there's nothing to substitute. < 1323129736 412192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless :%s is like some weird reverse substitute < 1323129752 610436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called vi syntax < 1323129755 568143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you uncultured fuck < 1323129775 295827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suffer from lack of omniscience, you insensitive clod! < 1323129804 51936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :omni science < 1323129860 71678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay I think I get it. < 1323129886 3697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, OERJAN REMOVED THE CONCEPT OF SLEEP < 1323129889 799231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1323129892 507675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fresh < 1323129972 773996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323130250 252523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always redonkulous freshnasty up in this biznatch < 1323130987 769652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/toilet < 1323131040 416550 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Copying from my Facebook 'cuz I'm lame): Mind-bender turned into a computer science problem: Imagine a class of functions rand[n] which return a random integer in the range [0, n), with equal probability of all valid values. Given an implementation of rand[2] as an oracle, is it possible to implement rand[3]? If not, for what values of n (define inductively or algebraically) is it possible? If so, what is the runtime (big-O notation) of rand[3], assuming rand[ < 1323131040 537123 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2] is O(1)? < 1323131092 216443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Those aren't functions QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRUDEL < 1323131108 863077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My next statement on FB was: Incidentally, I am of course not using "function" in the mathematical sense. rand[2] is magic, and rand[>2] is an algorithm (or none). < 1323131135 49977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the answer is "sort of": namely, yes it can be done, but the worst case is O(infinity). < 1323131148 317479 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "yes", not "sort of" :P < 1323131151 314546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically just "given an unbiased RNG implement a bigger one", which is a less obscure problem than that P: < 1323131153 242837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1323131156 83920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uh, no it's not. < 1323131166 619615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's hardly a perfect RNG if it can fail to give a random number. < 1323131178 703411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot fail, it can merely take infinite time. < 1323131187 529605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the same thing. < 1323131196 550950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But OK: rand[3] := for(;;); < 1323131230 465596 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My canonical rand[3] will always terminate, given infinite time, because in infinite time rand[2] will always return any given pattern eventually. < 1323131243 921088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1323131253 847773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That isn't actually true though. < 1323131261 409935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, it isn't implied by "perfectly unbiased RNG". < 1323131271 210246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is true modulo null sets :P < 1323131271 738128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability approaches 1, but you can easily get 0, 0, 0, 0, ... forever. < 1323131279 933610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just stunningly unlikely. < 1323131288 758632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that matters :P < 1323131302 372561 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure that that becomes untrue the very moment "forever" turns into "for infinite time" < 1323131314 223772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _could_ interpret it as rand[2] never giving a particular probability 0 behavior you're interested in excluding < 1323131315 988792 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because summed to infinity, "stunningly unlikely" becomes "impossible" < 1323131329 177667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...no. < 1323131331 198240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has probability 0. < 1323131334 867706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not the same thing as being impossible. < 1323131388 291214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: INJECT THINE WISDOM < 1323131402 732245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I could, but that's not what Gregor said. < 1323131410 92800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: um i already did < 1323131419 398566 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: INJECT MORE OF THINE WISDOM < 1323131464 517522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rand3 = do < 1323131464 652238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a <- rand2 < 1323131464 705866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : b <- rand2 < 1323131464 706010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case (a,b) of < 1323131464 706118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0, 0) -> return 0 < 1323131465 638608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0, 1) -> return 1 < 1323131467 671112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1, 0) -> return 2 < 1323131469 623846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1, 1) -> rand3 < 1323131471 654180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this isn't a solution (I'm not sure it is), then I think it can be made into one with just a sufficient drop of clever (which I'm willing to try and come up with if this isn't it :P) < 1323131473 710942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really a matter of what you define as acceptable algorithms. there isn't much more to it than that... < 1323131501 695519 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh, that was my canon solution. < 1323131539 436175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also for any n=2^m we can define rand_n as follows: rand_n = foldl' (\a b -> (a*2)+b) 0 <$> replicate m rand_2 < 1323131549 807474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1323131552 633460 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's easy for 2^n :P] < 1323131558 454013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1323131567 389498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries rand5
< 1323131574 263969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1323131575 310583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy < 1323131577 148196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have rand3 < 1323131580 355904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just apply the same trick rand3 does < 1323131596 529360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries rand7 with rand{2,3,5}
< 1323131659 757588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in fact I think you basically just need ceil(log_2(n)) rand2s < 1323131665 642896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you only ever have zero or one recursion cases < 1323131682 861679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just "interpret as bit pattern, try again if it's too big" < 1323131692 614979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but personally, I think the real answer is that it is impossible < 1323131696 75265 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there are cases where there would be >1 recursive case though? < 1323131710 740276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: try to do it for general n without wasting any bits >:) < 1323131711 116349 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 13? < 1323131714 306620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well ceil(log_2(n)) never exceeds log_2(n) by much... < 1323131718 804510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay I'll try 13 < 1323131727 992013 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :14, 15 and 16 are all invalid. < 1323131745 438405 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unless you consider "default" to be one case :P < 1323131746 233421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1323131753 838144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid as in can't be implemented? < 1323131766 484580 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1323131770 879209 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talkin' nonsense for a second there. < 1323131790 216876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he means that all of 14, 15 and 16 would be recursion cases < 1323131790 491125 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :13, 14 and 15 all require rerolls for rand13 is what I meant to say. < 1323131797 817955 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1323131810 710523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1323131831 81599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But anyway, a perfect unbiased oracle RNG can still return a pathological sequence forever. Yes, it has probability 0, but this does /not/ mean it's impossible, and therefore rand3 can fail to terminate, and therefore rand3 isn't an unbiased RNG because, uhh, RNGs terminate. < 1323131839 700275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the problem is actually impossible. < 1323131849 199365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that this doesn't work in practice, but in practice you don't have rand_2 anyway. < 1323131889 350472 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hmms for a moment.
< 1323131926 286721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Basically, you have to take every possible infinite bitstring, and prove that the results are evenly-distributed between them all as rand2's successive return values. < 1323131936 246830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,... -> whoops there is no result < 1323131969 610047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not that I can prove there is _no_ algorithm that works to do this, although I'm sceptical < 1323131974 950303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the canonical solution ain't it < 1323131993 960424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure it must have been proved impossible a long time ago, it's not like it's a particularly obscure thing to think about :P < 1323131999 584832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly understand that that case /exists/. However, infinity is a funny thing ... I'm not confident that the fact that there exists such an infinite bitstream negates the correctness of the algorithm ... < 1323132035 561113 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I start doing math with infinities and that makes me kill myself. < 1323132039 881522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm gonna defer to oerjan here because he has the Ph.D. to make you believe him :) < 1323132087 503733 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I asked him to inject more wisdom. < 1323132089 126577 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323132107 375787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But basically, if you accept that one possible sequence fails, then for 13, you have to accept that an infinite number of possible sequences fail. < 1323132115 693235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those composed out of the three reroll cases.) < 1323132134 250845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And the sequences that fail have the same cardinality as the sequences that work. < 1323132141 575803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same cardinality as the reals) < 1323132245 474009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Basically rand3 is a function from a real to [0,2]. < 1323132251 667617 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a better point. < 1323132251 722974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :([0,2] in Z that is) < 1323132258 799365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rand3 fails on one real. < 1323132262 875279 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1323132267 442537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rand13 fails on |R| reals. < 1323132269 569443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And works on |R| reals. < 1323132272 196153 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1323132298 767806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To make rand3 work, you have to chop that real off... and suddenly the RNG isn't perfectly unbiased any more. < 1323132312 122724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for rand13 but much more drastic :) < 1323132326 637927 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about rand14? < 1323132327 794739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Particularly, note that you can predict future results if you disallow infinite 1s. < 1323132339 964159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you get a 1, you know you're going to get a 0 within a finite amount of time. < 1323132344 471455 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :D) < 1323132350 6845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't predict unbiased oracles :P < 1323132379 153295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have the Ph.D. to understand that the interpretation of whether the infinite case is actually possible is a matter of your taste in definitions. < 1323132393 638434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was my perspective :P < 1323132401 194164 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm agreeing more with elliott's now *shrugs* < 1323132404 687039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually you don't even need to get a 1 to know you'll get a 0, obviously :P < 1323132425 566941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think anyone who calls a skewed-to-make-a-challenge-possible RNG "unbiased" is stretching their definitions :P < 1323132503 221391 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not the issue with definitions. < 1323132505 558200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it is modification on a set of probability zero, which is frequently considered acceptable < 1323132569 924262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *shrug* I think it's fair to say that the challenge is ambiguous < 1323132588 855537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think the number of combinations that lead to reroll is unbounded as n gets larger < 1323132592 684689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: even your cardinality |R| exception set example still has probability 0) < 1323132606 183423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only the naturals weren't countable, you could prove that you were eliminating most of R in the process, I think. < 1323132644 861508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh, ooh, here's another argument: You can imagine taking this "reroll" strategy to the limit, and deriving an algorithm to generate a perfectly random, equal-probability /integer/. < 1323132652 243897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to reroll every time :-) < 1323132662 324816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That made more sense as a visualisation in my head. < 1323132671 448815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never claimed the challenge wasn't ambiguous, it certainly has that "teacher gives assignment which requires you to know which of equally plausible interpretations they subscribe to" vibe < 1323132678 613619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's more like you have to call rand2 an infinite number of times. < 1323132684 932015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess this isn't realy compelling. < 1323132685 906651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. < 1323132695 621937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (note: even your cardinality |R| exception set example still has probability 0) < 1323132697 265989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of this < 1323132716 675351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just in case ;P < 1323132719 416115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An RNG that can return any sequence of probability >0" just doesn't count as unbiased to me :) < 1323132744 870763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan will now prove that it's OK because probability 0 has probability 0 in the space of probabilities, so it's generally accepted to remove it. < 1323132759 436259 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323132786 237342 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, for all valid possibilities, there is not only infinitely many such valid bitstrings, but a nonzero probability of such bitstrings. < 1323132805 939838 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Valid = non-halting) < 1323132808 116560 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-53.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323132809 150508 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1323132812 4196 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Valid = halting) :P < 1323132812 762830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1323132828 956950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, all the non-halting sequences have probability 0 < 1323132829 547513 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say just get a counter which counts really quickly and use human inaccuracy to randomly hit the counter < 1323132834 421936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't matter < 1323132840 16465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can exclude the sequences from your RNG definition < 1323132845 936484 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the supplied value as an index into the decimal places of PI < 1323132846 736855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And claim it doesn't affect biasedness because they all have probability 0 < 1323132855 505671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you /do/ admit such sequences, it's definitely impossible < 1323132889 131684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm no you cannot remove _all_ probability 0 sets, because they're union has probability 1. duh. < 1323132893 328189 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suppose the counter is 32bits cycling.. human presses the button and gets 100,000,000 .. so look up the 100,000,000th decimal of PI < 1323132900 44156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can remove any _particular_ one. < 1323132903 521166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The sequences = the sequences that break things < 1323132912 495919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Actually this is problematic because I believe every single probability 0 sequence is involved in the general case < 1323132915 788711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For solving the problem for all n < 1323132920 942947 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's not what I was saying :P < 1323132931 279286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For rand1 it's 1 sequence, for rand13 it's |R|, you gotta exhaust all the probability-0 sequences sometime :-) < 1323132934 433182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, hmm < 1323132936 90013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i'm pretty sure it's not. < 1323132939 413965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah no it's not < 1323132942 811828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Chaitin's constant < 1323132951 48987 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For rand3) The problematic sequence has probability 0. The non-problematic sequences have non-zero probability. < 1323132951 485982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure you can't "recognise" it like that < 1323132957 67298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow this is so ridiculously informal < 1323132962 120135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, I agree. < 1323132975 582873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That doesn't matter. What does matter is that you can claim your definition of the RNG excludes the problematic sequence. < 1323132979 548132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in fact there are countably many n's, so the union of the sets still has probability 0 by countable additivity. < 1323132985 970675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. < 1323132990 471174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW LET'S GENERALISE IT TO THE REALS < 1323133083 789071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: your comment reminds me of the adage going somewhat like "randomly choosing an algorithm is not a good way to make a random number generator" < 1323133130 296966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their < 1323133270 871515 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think its probably quite effective though < 1323133344 273358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323133357 35153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you cannot increase randomness by indexing a sequence < 1323133366 783773 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323133367 794921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hm < 1323133370 722332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's how prngs work :P < 1323133379 270860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a strict sense pi_digits[n] is no more random than n... < 1323133417 47544 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. god used the pi sequence as an axiom for creating the universe so its ok (^_^ < 1323133420 213114 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can't brag that I got Gregor's canonical answer, given that the truth of said answer is in dispute < 1323133438 159648 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting point there :-? < 1323133442 323665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's a pretty obvious answer :-) < 1323133456 728577 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: however there are some practical advantages < 1323133459 390937 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1323133466 408082 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although when I first read the status, I missed "integer" < 1323133486 709083 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with my system you have less chance of knowing which digit is coming next < 1323133492 692593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1323133497 578569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can predict n, you can predict pi_digits[n] < 1323133503 503453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1323133507 749141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :predict n, then index pi_digits with it! < 1323133528 137446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so if you can only predict like < 1323133530 294702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n-2 to n+2 < 1323133536 960395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can predict "closer" with just n < 1323133539 695282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh < 1323133543 292126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this scheme is ridiculous anyway < 1323133543 964425 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well.. suppose that the device i described gives you a digit < 1323133549 817462 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1323133571 271050 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is very unlikely that someone could activate the fast counter at such a rate that that knowledge could help them anyway :-? < 1323133572 995443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has the impression that Pi is not a cryptographically secure PRNG
< 1323133590 920602 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, actually, it's unknown if it's normal, right? And if it is normal, that means...? < 1323133592 706186 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole system relies on human stupidness to push some button < 1323133631 217477 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if our human looks out the window at a passing bird and gets distracted that should be enough to throw his game out < 1323133641 231855 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the digits of Pi turn out to be "normal" I think is the word, then would Pi work as a PRNG with a seed of a starting digit? < 1323133695 839804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think a normal number can still be entirely predictable. at least for a single base this is true. e.g. 0.12345678910111213... is normal. < 1323133696 387703 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323133697 676806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323133720 271273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(base 10) < 1323133723 93120 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am only thinking of a dice replacer though really < 1323133726 602698 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should learn what is meant by normal < 1323133751 541750 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking of like a box which has a button on the top :D and you can push a button and a digit is displayed < 1323133767 292892 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most PRNGs do not generate a normal sequence, because doing so requires unbounded memory < 1323133769 203091 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has 2 AA batteries... < 1323133825 781724 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 123456789/999999999 normal? < 1323133828 877315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: s/normal/nonperiodic/, even < 1323133833 851276 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, predictability has nothing to do with whether all sequences appear with equal probability < 1323133834 528812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no. < 1323133849 965740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no rational number is normal in any base, as its expansion repeats. < 1323133876 182369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means most strings longer than the repeat won't occur < 1323133878 360872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that each digit appears an equal amount of times in the decimal expansion < 1323133889 919745 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not what normal is I guess < 1323133894 401428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: normal requires blocks of digits, not just single digits < 1323133907 475765 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok i would technically be repeating pi < 1323133909 979353 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not very often < 1323133926 506149 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would use the first say 65535 digits of pi and then cycle < 1323133937 404094 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1323133938 393297 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty often < 1323133938 598499 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was thinking 32bit but i dont know the relevant number < 1323133971 407522 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe its diffciult to store 32bit digits.. or maybe it's not < 1323133990 209235 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 4 gigabytes of ram < 1323133992 490641 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why the heckw ould you stoer it < 1323133997 107996 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compute an arbitrary digit of pi in O(1) < 1323134004 336396 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1323134015 986582 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in a few bases < 1323134016 372885 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, in decimal? Or Binary? < 1323134017 86134 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm < 1323134024 274300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hex < 1323134027 515360 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think octal too < 1323134034 630800 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(log n) < 1323134041 633136 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well right < 1323134042 275822 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323134043 684650 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because of arithmetic < 1323134052 452903 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi is nonperiodic, you obviously can't compute any digit in O(1) < 1323134067 477700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hint, calculating in base b^m is equivalently easy to calculating in base b^n < 1323134070 670105 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, you can do the full 64 bits with much less storage space < 1323134072 813332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1323134076 648307 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god im so full of crap < 1323134083 43565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 10 isn't 8^n though < 1323134083 727546 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1323134096 755373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: shocking < 1323134116 999638 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the other element of my suggested device is a counter which just cycles very quickly through n bit integers cycling < 1323134133 66064 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and idiot human presses a button which makes it stop and then calculate that digit of pi < 1323134140 945050 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and display it < 1323134157 628206 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it starts counting again < 1323134216 931884 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds no different from a randomly at device-programming time generated table from n-bit integers to final numbers. I guess that's the point though < 1323134238 91796 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should take into account im the dumb kid < 1323134258 500816 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Changing host < 1323134258 554304 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323134261 973938 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ideas are not supposed to be acceptable :P < 1323134269 28331 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be careful you don't hire a pseudo-idiot. Then your numbers become pseudo-random. < 1323134290 194809 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean in here < 1323134300 330763 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am really quite clueless and oblivious < 1323134326 142579 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, Oleg says that Writer monad is different from generators < 1323134361 199544 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: never said they weren't < 1323134365 928976 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /nick elliott for a bit would you old chap < 1323134372 941770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1323134378 948270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no NICK :elliott < 1323134384 604859 :elliott!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no NICK :oerjan < 1323134388 255410 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1323134390 253091 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :longer than that < 1323134391 739954 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to reconnect < 1323134395 527212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a 30 second warning < 1323134397 929103 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323134400 176715 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take less than that >:) < 1323134420 187193 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know how much he trusts elliott_, but
< 1323134422 474131 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :elliott < 1323134424 464958 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323134426 115453 :elliott!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tick tock < 1323134428 313196 :elliott!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1323134428 567582 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323134435 11144 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i expected, doesn't quite work. < 1323134452 520354 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323134462 72430 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323134462 564828 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares
< 1323134464 561733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_someone_ is going to have gained a lot of trust in elliott_, i predict < 1323134482 982228 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i can make Sgeo stop trusting me however hard i try < 1323134488 340027 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also believing everything i say < 1323134540 679052 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nickserv will help you find nicks that utilize a certain string. For example, if you wanted a list of any nicks on freenode that contain “chick”, you could type /msg nickserv list *chick*. Nickserv would then return a list of all non-private nicks that contain the string “chick”. < 1323134542 87822 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--freenode blo < 1323134542 631198 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1323134582 576998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good example < 1323134646 793173 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, i believe i'd have to write a script < 1323134665 736363 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1323134675 819581 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some have proposed that the reception of the Holy Ghost occurs automatically without any manifestation of the supernatural when a person simply "accepts Jesus into their hearts by faith." Others believe this occurs automatically when one is baptized in water. They propose that the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" noted in Acts 2:4 is a "second experience" that may or may not necessarily occur after one simply receives the Spirit of God within one's < 1323134675 872799 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :life. In this study, I will call their belief the "two experiences" belief. < 1323134683 562714 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: autoghost < 1323134815 219404 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is rather surprised by delimited continuations being more powerful than undelimited continuations
< 1323134854 203501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand delimited continuations can do state < 1323134881 930011 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1323134885 449232 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :IM A CORPUS FRIENDSHIP ROBOT!!! HOW DO *YOU* TOUCAN? The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323134894 881072 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE894EA.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323134906 603532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if this toucan meme is from somewhere
< 1323134910 971222 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i put it in the topic < 1323134911 710795 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1323134913 54703 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful meme < 1323134914 448443 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spiral < 1323134919 935999 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that call/cc is undelimited, and Cont's callCC is delimited < 1323134931 199982 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can, you can, one or two can! < 1323134935 192522 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I may be mistaken < 1323134937 23094 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's delimited by the runCont < 1323134941 889628 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream! < 1323134955 226508 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's submitting to the IOCCC? < 1323134963 767032 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or whatever, I think < 1323134966 701748 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Gregor has < 1323134971 758000 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is/was planning to < 1323135068 363843 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baaaaaaaaasically everybody in here :P < 1323135077 228406 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 2 of you < 1323135113 842050 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We assume basic familiarity with functional programming languages, such as OCaml, Standard ML, Scheme, and Haskell. " < 1323135123 816102 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is familiarity with only Scheme and Haskell sufficient to read this? < 1323135127 363478 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1323135130 420246 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must understand EVERY SINGLE ONE < 1323135149 748655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Clean, they just left that out as a typo < 1323135158 596724 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must dissociate personalities to learn ocaml and sml < 1323135172 965407 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget about Lazy-K. < 1323135238 112297 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cabal install webkit < 1323135240 307759 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION crosses fingers
< 1323135243 931398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i was going to mention that if someone asked < 1323135261 687255 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll write it in python, just this once :) < 1323135265 65179 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is scared of gtk2hs
< 1323135301 320067 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Oleg literally God? < 1323135426 970007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also C. < 1323135444 300465 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a functional language in which you define your program as a set of functions of type State -> State. < 1323135890 321918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where weak typing allows State to mean basically anything! < 1323135896 539072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> :> :> < 1323136273 109545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you confusing with Underload here < 1323136434 478328 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://conal.net/blog/posts/the-c-language-is-purely-functional < 1323136746 559140 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323136956 626225 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323137117 898512 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I was playing Dungeons & Dragons game. Partially by suggestion of the first officer, now I have to go into the prison in the night time, and then leave, without breaking it... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < 1323137172 795556 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323137353 112026 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323137437 264355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323137576 754631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323137586 808554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :promising. < 1323137609 206937 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott (not here): Oh piff, that's such a boring way for C to be functional :( < 1323137652 579038 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott (still not here): I was actually dredging up an earlier argument in which somebody (you?) argued that concatenative languages are functional, where each operation is a function State -> State. I generalized it to C. < 1323137730 211151 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's analogous to a particular interpretation of the execution of Haskell, though. < 1323137787 113148 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, and? < 1323137801 573158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323137807 77885 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing in particular. < 1323137811 827127 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323137816 509548 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SO WHERE'S YOUR IOCCC ENTRY? < 1323137818 218165 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUH? < 1323137819 202867 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUNK? < 1323137887 172902 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My apathy and laziness are hiding it. < 1323138460 590653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "wh"++repeat'e' < 1323138461 610782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `repeat'e'' < 1323138467 858677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "wh"++repeat 'e' < 1323138471 784350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323138479 186340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "wh"++repeat 'e' < 1323138483 378094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323138521 273678 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "wh" ++ repeat 'e' < 1323138525 452484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323138527 510208 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot... < 1323138540 796200 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'w' : 'h' : repeat 'e' < 1323138541 762764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... < 1323138562 594227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rather doubt the exact syntax matters to the timeout < 1323138581 816825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just retyping it and I always put spaces in my stuff < 1323138591 321693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't control it! < 1323138603 367718 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces addiction serious problems < 1323138730 476104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Scroll of create paper: The spell on this scroll creates one sheet of paper. < 1323138737 185887 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Scroll of melee: This is a magical scroll that can be used as a melee weapon. < 1323138744 482625 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Scroll of cure blindness: If you read this scroll while blind, your blindness is cured. This affects only the reader of the scroll, not anyone else. < 1323138751 426433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Scroll bar: This kind of scroll is sold in bars. < 1323138769 516401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323138789 406996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone happen to know any internal gtk guts? < 1323138793 631565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or equivalently, X11 guts? < 1323138795 990167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor? pikhq??? < 1323138816 459775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Potion of invisibility: This potion makes everything invisible to the drinker. < 1323138822 262275 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Potion of indivisibility: This potent potion changes composite numbers into prime numbers. < 1323138827 857076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Potion of melee: This potion can be used as a melee weapon, but only once because after you use it once it shatters. < 1323138832 375699 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Potion of eggplant: In a few weeks, plants start growing on your head. The plants have eggs on it. < 1323138852 627647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Poison of healing: This is both poison and healing, so it has both effects at once. < 1323138852 739886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Scroll of paper bird: This scroll can be folded to glide through the air. < 1323138956 212109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Arrow of bad luck: If you ever try to use this you will always miss even if you rolled an automatic hit. < 1323138974 29156 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All I know about the guts of either is that Cthulhu lies in wait < 1323139069 758333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Arrow of time: This arrow causes its victim to die of old age. Eventually. < 1323139098 930099 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :pirateat20 < 1323139116 564385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the cannibal pirate < 1323139180 403712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1323139300 939513 :pirateat20!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1323139421 314716 :pirateat20!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1323139432 599029 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323139576 566733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot.py:14: GtkWarning: IA__gdk_offscreen_window_get_pixmap: assertion `GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed < 1323139579 520343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYY < 1323139592 835755 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323140187 682328 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1323140418 864186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You've used WebkitGtk, right? < 1323141110 738997 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've only used QtWebkit. < 1323141174 758251 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323141187 682447 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1323141498 668545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah, okay then < 1323141510 810756 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :update < 1323141528 667069 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323141615 373803 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323141639 603677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think we both know that it's /not/ okay. < 1323141705 845180 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1323141902 366019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed it's not, this thing is broken :'( < 1323142142 713038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES GTKOFFSCREENWINDOW DEPEND ON AN X1 SERVER < 1323142149 878066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1323142150 850235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYY < 1323142163 992908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHYYYY < 1323142629 543308 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, X1 < 1323142630 826710 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient. < 1323142693 653976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1323143030 332306 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Strictly speaking, it should only depend on an X11 server if you use the X11 backend for GTK. < 1323143069 920727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*In theory* it should have a "render to a buffer" backend. < 1323143082 336440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Oleg used a $ chain for something < 1323143086 839234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I make no guarantees that it actually does) < 1323143183 427451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay? < 1323143189 181041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm just using xvfb-run :P < 1323143210 452866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate2 f x n | seq f $ seq x $ seq n $ False = undefined < 1323143210 506487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which means I have a working URL -> WebKitGtk -> png tool \o/ < 1323143214 449988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay? < 1323143215 672197 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/#making-function-strict < 1323143218 4957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay? < 1323143234 958357 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, Xvfb would work. < 1323143239 469266 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's just that you seem to tell me that using . is almost always preferable < 1323143240 803746 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of a hack, but *eh*. < 1323143245 420079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1323143247 631872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/almost // < 1323143260 642473 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Oleg is imperfect? < 1323143267 676440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this surprise you < 1323143271 568025 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oleg's Haskell style differs from the now commonly accepted Haskell style. < 1323143280 973731 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323143283 804781 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Oleg's Haskell style predates there *being* a commonly accepted Haskell style. < 1323143294 562769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg's code isn't particularly idiomatic at all, it's just really good, so who cares? < 1323143359 749546 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall the history being that each university had its own Haskell coding style, and one of those took over the rest. < 1323143417 588946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not true, Utrecht lives on < 1323143422 414742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFORTUNATELY. < 1323143441 706083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/uu-parsinglib/2.7.3/doc/html/src/Text-ParserCombinators-UU-Core.html < 1323143446 596613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Applicative (T state) where < 1323143446 763168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T ph pf pr <*> ~(T qh qf qr) = T ( \ k -> ph (\ pr -> qh (\ qr -> k (pr qr)))) < 1323143446 817079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((apply .) . (pf .qf)) < 1323143446 817241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( pr . qr) < 1323143448 25511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T ph pf pr <* ~(T _ _ qr) = T ( ph. (qr.)) (pf. qr) (pr . qr) < 1323143450 148423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T _ _ pr *> ~(T qh qf qr ) = T ( pr . qh ) (pr. qf) (pr . qr) < 1323143452 212301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pure a = T ($a) ((push a).) id < 1323143465 885839 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... that's a lot of pointfree < 1323143468 370300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this one is amazing: < 1323143469 720415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best' :: Steps b -> Steps b -> Steps b < 1323143469 892487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :End_f as l `best'` End_f bs r = End_f (as++bs) (l `best` r) < 1323143469 958148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :End_f as l `best'` r = End_f as (l `best` r) < 1323143470 11865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l `best'` End_f bs r = End_f bs (l `best` r) < 1323143470 11937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :End_h (as, k_h_st) l `best'` End_h (bs, _) r = End_h (as++bs, k_h_st) (l `best` r) < 1323143471 389680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :End_h as l `best'` r = End_h as (l `best` r) < 1323143473 349983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l `best'` End_h bs r = End_h bs (l `best` r) < 1323143475 226362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail sl ll `best'` Fail sr rr = Fail (sl ++ sr) (ll++rr) < 1323143477 371131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail _ _ `best'` r = r -- <----------------------------- to be refined < 1323143479 411359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l `best'` Fail _ _ = l < 1323143481 346801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step n l `best'` Step m r < 1323143483 261094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n == m = Step n (l `best` r) < 1323143485 270485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n < m = Step n (l `best` Step (m - n) r) < 1323143487 462918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n > m = Step m (Step (n - m) l `best` r) < 1323143489 330869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls@(Step _ _) `best'` Micro _ _ = ls < 1323143491 300790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Micro _ _ `best'` rs@(Step _ _) = rs < 1323143493 281789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls@(Micro i l) `best'` rs@(Micro j r) < 1323143495 293589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | i == j = Micro i (l `best` r) < 1323143497 374472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | i < j = ls < 1323143499 380944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | i > j = rs < 1323143501 305653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l `best'` r = error "missing alternative in best'" < 1323143503 399807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care how much of a flood that was, LOOK at that < 1323143513 831774 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there were lambdas, so not pointfree? < 1323143520 11957 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some astonishing code. < 1323143524 15383 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323143582 361386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In all seriousness, there are definitely multiple styles around < 1323143603 958456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Simons, and thus GHC, have a fairly idiosyncratic style < 1323143627 697733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually see do blocks like this in SPJ papers: < 1323143627 979461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { foo < 1323143628 33327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; bar < 1323143628 33475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; baz < 1323143628 472897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1323143636 217501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I dunno if Marlow has an odd style < 1323143645 121969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But GHC definitely is quite idiosyncratic < 1323143649 276176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it's basically entirely imperative :P < 1323143664 65995 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By "the rest" I meant "most of the community". Obviously there's still a lot of styles remaining. < 1323143689 281092 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And calling GHC "idiosyncratic" is putting it lightly. < 1323143703 758399 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most large compilers, it wasn't designed, it congealed. < 1323143728 953894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it congealed at the hands of mostly two people, so it's relatively internally consistent :) < 1323143757 902463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like how whenever they find out a field is not always applicable in GHC, they just put (error "...") in there rather than turning it into a Maybe :) < 1323143789 318766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't all that much of a fan of the "standard" Haskell style.
< 1323143912 504193 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323143994 426803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know what I'd prefer,r eally. < 1323143996 97969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, really. < 1323144007 964391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conal's style is compelling. < 1323144015 987060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a "standard" Haskell style? < 1323144033 166208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What most Haskell code considered by the community to be idiomatic looks like. < 1323144157 760851 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121.73.171.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323144157 829510 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121.73.171.225 QUIT :Changing host < 1323144157 883093 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323144333 248386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:19:19 Is there a difference between using that trick and slapping ! in front of the pattern? < 1323144335 253909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: One is standard. < 1323144382 967807 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1323144412 604472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1323144432 332546 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323145057 403056 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323145072 17621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1323145072 689462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1323145081 532946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what i just opened an editor buffer for < 1323145097 42073 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@? < 1323145144 963288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, when I start working on @ it'll sound like "here's the devblog I just started" or "here's a preliminary design pdf: < 1323145145 957083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1323145149 108538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:/"/ < 1323145189 699620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it is too old for monqy to know what it is < 1323145192 827245 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps "They've finally locked me up." < 1323145218 398989 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with Active Worlds? < 1323145220 476099 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets shot
< 1323145230 423125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They did that and I brought SUBVERSIVE @-PROPAGATING DEVICES INTO THEIR TERRITORY!!! < 1323145254 934209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleeping from 4 am to 7 am was so totally worth talking about @, you guys. < 1323145262 637798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, flip that. < 1323145289 403361 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What I mean is "in a mental institution". < 1323145294 131217 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323145308 905465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you read my response, I think you will find that's what I meant too :) < 1323145319 53958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. :) < 1323145501 352802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is... < 1323145502 378321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :botte < 1323145506 584062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that nick still even registered. < 1323145511 327367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes iti s. < 1323145513 402614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1323145515 742875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Metadata : ^ = ^ < 1323145519 960199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'awwwww look at its face./ < 1323145523 457895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1323145609 231353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: TOUCAN WHOCAN
< 1323145616 541614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg omg omg < 1323145617 301930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti < 1323145623 897132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what's the timeout for getting a nickr egistered < 1323145626 70254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropped < 1323145774 749313 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323145861 95835 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oerjan: rand[3] almost surely halts (<-- legitimate, correct term, furreals) < 1323145879 627148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um... yes, it has probability 1 of halting. < 1323145890 324998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you under the impression that this is new information to me? :P < 1323145904 604565 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the "almost surely" I am currently enjoying :P < 1323145905 824196 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think using that term is new information to Gregor? < 1323145910 331782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware of that terminology. < 1323145924 219025 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or rather, unaware of its technical meaning within statistics) < 1323146027 864387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: WHY ARE YOU NOT AN ENDLESS SOURCE OF READY INFORMATION < 1323146229 35856 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that's me < 1323146242 776617 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you need to know about...marmots? < 1323146244 59239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rand[3] has been puzzling me... < 1323146260 418503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Not a thing < 1323146264 246587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why < 1323146266 584079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rand[2] is just a bit < 1323146281 818045 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know, I read what Gregor wrote about it. < 1323146302 764581 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that puzzles me is the O-notation bit < 1323146310 720894 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is it a monte carlo or las vegas or whatever algorithm, the kind that has a correctness guaranteed but no time bound guarantee? < 1323146339 480625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It works, and it halts with probability 1, but it doesn't always halt < 1323146349 360985 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's kinda easy to make such a function, but jeeze the O-notation is a bitch. < 1323146361 524251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make such a function with that definition of the RNG < 1323146366 777788 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that makes it a las vegas style algorithm < 1323146376 495531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pseudo big-O analysis just proves that you've failed to construct the right thing < 1323146391 51285 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give a big-O analysis for expected run time < 1323146393 511783 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 'tis, but we were arguing about whether it's correct due to the fact that it halts with probability one, and yet is not guaranteed to halt (brain-twister). < 1323146394 965748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, the probability of damaging your own active pokemon by using the DIGGER card is 2/3. < 1323146396 795169 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a technical term for "nope") < 1323146402 800428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In computing, a Las Vegas algorithm is a randomized algorithm that always gives correct results; that is, it always produces the correct result or it informs about the failure. In other words, a Las Vegas algorithm does not gamble with the verity of the result; it gambles only with the resources used for the computation. A simple example is randomized quicksort, where the pivot is chosen randomly, but the result is always sorted. The usual defini < 1323146402 968345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tion of a Las Vegas algorithm includes the restriction that the expected run time always be finite, when the expectation is carried out over the space of random information, or entropy, used in the algorithm." < 1323146411 69040 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my brain has no trouble with it < 1323146417 624583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, no, that isn't really an argument at all < 1323146424 927449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is no, it's just no < 1323146431 72974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is in question is whether an "unbiased RNG" can exclude that sequence < 1323146441 992723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's basically just disagreement about the definition of "unbiased" :P < 1323146446 118273 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, THAT SEQUENCE is not a finite sequence. < 1323146453 103384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, that's correct. < 1323146460 15080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...do you think this is relevant somehow? < 1323146473 507050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but only intuitively :P < 1323146491 749393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rand[2] is an infinite sequence for any given run of the program. < 1323146499 366287 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit < 1323146499 420370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just only look at a finite prefix of it if you halt. < 1323146505 455229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then what's the problem < 1323146519 528275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could easily show how it breaks without using the sequence terminology, it'd just be boring and tedious < 1323146521 18394 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting with you, players take turn tossing a coin, until tails. Whoever get tails does one point of damage to their own active pokemon card. < 1323146566 257845 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: your analysis is correct < 1323146570 575580 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323146621 985287 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my guess is that you should only use it when you have no active card, or when it is protected from damage < 1323146643 156673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: If you have no active card, you have to activate one before doing anything else, or you lose the game. < 1323146671 428363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, there are circumstances where it is advantage regardless of who you damage. < 1323146675 961454 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah okay. i don't actually play this game. < 1323146734 23976 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323146746 189633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One possibility is if you have a RAGE attack, it does damage to opponent's active pokemon according to number of damage on your own active pokemon. So in this case, if you need just one more damage than you can ordinarily do, then the DIGGER card will help you regardless of its outcome.) < 1323146938 827038 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323146990 226067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THE ANSWER IS BOTTE fuck you all. < 1323147100 551319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are even some rare situations where hitting yourself might be the preferred outcome. Once I was playing and an opponent played DIGGER and I recognized that was the case. However they eventually *lost the game because they ended up hitting me instead*. < 1323147160 756962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you play chess, the similar situation would be if the opponent were pinned.) < 1323147190 51430 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323147242 210685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You're fired. < 1323147301 506120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323149363 593927 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323149517 2255 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323149520 798883 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323149523 986887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xlib: extension "RANDR" missing on display ":99". < 1323149526 545485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD YOU PRINT THAT TO STDOUT < 1323149717 5962 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323149819 885893 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323151476 789069 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1323151667 977513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MEAN IF WEBKIT NEVER ACTUALLY FINISHES LOADING A PAGE >_< < 1323151682 605966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up, uses deprecated signal
< 1323152327 190764 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-249-140.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323152404 265549 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-248-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323152772 960906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the X-Printout- specification for Haskell Cabal packages, it includes modes: PlainTeX, LaTeX, ConTeXt, XeTeX, XeLaTeX, HTML, Gopher, RFC. However, I have currently only documented the modes (including restrictions on their use): PlainTeX, HTML, Gopher. < 1323152997 174804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323153742 261794 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323153763 73724 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323154099 792213 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db4f8f4.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323154132 801923 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41996.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323154189 976181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323154309 627974 :elliott!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323154313 471096 :elliott!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Changing host < 1323154313 524487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323154873 681982 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1323155443 101520 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323155669 104536 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323156696 708607 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323158544 941023 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323158741 85847 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323159761 690984 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1323161147 435777 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323161172 236371 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323162372 883892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, < 1323162384 881851 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hussie is officially interfering with my sleep schedule < 1323162430 249728 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323162455 78969 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323163838 736029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldl < 1323163839 549823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a < 1323163989 241382 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323165179 77411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323165227 321672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fucking fuck < 1323165230 301620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok who knows pythno < 1323165231 926178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :python < 1323165261 333367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I figured out what was wrong with the gloop-style version of sg < 1323165279 794667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1323165282 798948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone deletes a block of code, and someone else inserts inside that block of code, the resulting state, while consistent, is reasonably meaningless to a human < 1323165391 787819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the code with the deletion, together with the block of code that was inserted, but with nowhere to put it < 1323165396 440263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323165495 913921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to prove that it's self-consistent and that the order of changes are irrelevant, which are both useful properties < 1323165502 473134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't help if it's not practically useful < 1323165505 617964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, tell me I'm not going mad: a python object, no __getattr__ magic, that sets a field "foo", no underscores or whatever, in its constructor, and does nothing funny after that whatsoever < 1323165515 103840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :print obj.foo after that can't /possibly/ give a "no such attribute" error, can it?!?!?! < 1323165542 535370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, is there some sort of confusion between class and object here? < 1323165548 492753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know Python < 1323165551 121069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, checked that < 1323167365 987177 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1323167524 459854 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1323167561 853197 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-249-140.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT : < 1323168355 774248 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-249-140.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323168730 742532 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323169440 744063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay, you get to decide whether I'm a player or not < 1323169454 690247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll probably appeal anything you say if you're boring about it!!! < 1323169868 359058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :is a second-generation, outside–in, pull-based, multiple-stakeholder, multiple-scale, high-automation, agile methodology. It describes a cycle of interactions with well-defined outputs, resulting in the delivery of working, tested software that matters. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323169872 384806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is a second-generation, outside–in, pull-based, multiple-stakeholder, multiple-scale, high-automation, agile methodology. It describes a cycle of interactions with well-defined outputs, resulting in the delivery of working, tested software that matters. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323170629 896406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, GNOME release notes are the most awkwardly-written things in the universe < 1323170639 146305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Documents, contacts, calendars — They can be stored locally on the computer, but storing this type of information online is becoming increasingly popular." < 1323170653 65856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Certain web sites are used as if they are applications. Some sites are opened the minute the computer is turned on; the site is open all the time and checked periodically. Wouldn't it be nice if GNOME treats these sites as actual applications?" < 1323170659 483213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Contacts is a new application focused on people." < 1323170672 96203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Traditional user documentation is written like a paper book; a good story, but it is very long and takes time to read through." < 1323171067 359642 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323171259 366536 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC47.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1323172186 834217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172186 846869 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172186 860489 :anthony.freenode.net NOTICE #esoteric :[freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp > 1323172191 467061 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172191 696234 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1323172191 979278 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172193 489341 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172201 674550 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1323172477 719375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323173601 736305 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323173695 531045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323174325 608926 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323174350 532901 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323174571 350888 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC47.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323174866 614324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do freebsd pam modules work with linux? < 1323175629 628100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: applications focused on toucans
< 1323175655 413444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323175666 373129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: user documentation book reviews "good story"
< 1323175675 563464 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db4f8f4.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1323175715 781827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "if a little fanciful" < 1323175758 146166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you figure out your python problem? < 1323175769 993094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes. i was looking at the wrong version of the source code < 1323175773 725512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I can think of is that you possibly forgot the self. < 1323175775 432183 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1323175776 565299 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manual for my graphing software lacked a coherent plot. < 1323175784 706518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always feed your python from the _front_, not the back. < 1323175786 139784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: :( < 1323175815 85872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: XD < 1323175826 54109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: +_+ < 1323175835 441142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice twist ending does wonders. < 1323175842 959724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a climactic twist. < 1323175856 168750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this book on knots has ..." < 1323175863 747376 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4f8f4.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323175877 446367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this book on knots has... NO TWISTS. < 1323175879 606062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUNNNNN < 1323175893 188695 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1323175943 122780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, why is agent forwarding insecure, i can only assume someone messed up somewhere < 1323175962 8043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: double agents < 1323175973 375010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan............... < 1323176015 442158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just woke up, and it's still dark. So in my half-awake stupor I considered drinking some beers. < 1323176021 71295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I remember: it's 8 AM < 1323176026 769815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how UNFASHIONABLE < 1323176084 231815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah always start with the hard lquor < 1323176086 478560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+i < 1323176111 289330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the probability of typos appears to be correlated to the badness of the joke < 1323176140 306886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :freudian censorship, failed < 1323176152 210584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is my theory) < 1323176213 856540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds promising < 1323176227 811216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should do some joint work to publish it. < 1323176236 659676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops no typos < 1323176239 787962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1323176322 25968 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens a beer.
< 1323176336 713600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a great way to study for finals. < 1323176419 962909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a final solrogutit < 1323176428 309364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323176437 942035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: _really_ bad joke < 1323176448 101984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sol....solution? < 1323176455 82835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is Hitler.
< 1323176495 371061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if jew like < 1323176593 605128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1323176594 621458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323176599 115196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1323176602 981882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1323176609 252275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323176656 878021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?read "i'm here" < 1323176657 486378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm here < 1323176718 434843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my patch got backed out :) < 1323176740 650333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er does that mean it isn't there now, or the opposite < 1323176748 329857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide < 1323176757 19025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1323176820 388223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial evidence suggests "the opposite" < 1323176830 524975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which somewhat clashes with the smiley < 1323176867 752758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to utilize all this 8 in the morning energy to < 1323176876 414928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECKLESSLY CLEAN MY DISGUSTING ROOM. < 1323176881 613745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does that mean it was in, and _was_ the reason lambdabot was flaky yesterday? :P < 1323176897 985047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1323176947 438044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nice < 1323177202 173979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this topic is even better than toucan topics imo < 1323177340 994967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the terms might even be true < 1323177350 859746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a direct quote though < 1323177353 44804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from "#esoteric" < 1323177356 47039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one word i faked < 1323177388 534223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'd trust it _more_ in the original. < 1323177420 724059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323177460 10812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _whatever_ the original was about, you shouldn't trust someone who uses that many buzzwords. < 1323177470 979136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about feather < 1323177473 476738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1323177512 75007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1323177540 621966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks having no optical drive and no usb keys to hand < 1323177546 669127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure most of those are not actual buzzwords < 1323177548 802613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"agile" is. < 1323177568 757814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know even less about buzzwords than I know about computer science. < 1323177575 75945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible < 1323177734 824404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it /was/ was about Feather, but it no longer was about feather < 1323177742 300120 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1323177747 878241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323177764 901221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers doing something uncharacteristic
< 1323177779 17079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do that < 1323177956 505122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather: the only language to be retroactively buzzword-proof < 1323178009 343997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: make me < 1323178012 954485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the rest are wannabe buzzwords < 1323178230 406257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean they could easily be buzzwords i haven't heard about < 1323178437 304342 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323178607 282102 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323179031 962922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: time-travel grammar is hard < 1323179052 756939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I concluded that there were something like four different timelines happening simultaneously in Braid < 1323179063 899904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more if you count the timeline of the plot, but that isn't really consistent < 1323179121 967402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a library for doing time-travel simulations :) < 1323179140 929644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can set up a game that does things like Braid in a declarative manner rather than special-casing everything :D < 1323179153 417436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should budget some Feather money for hiring Dan Streetmentioner as a consultant. < 1323179156 498585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the problem is that you have to specify exactly _how_ you want it faked. < 1323179180 159812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you actually the Guide. < 1323179193 327440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, apart from worlds 5 and 1, Braid's time-travel model is reasonably replicable just by making a chain of four or so TASing emulators < 1323179210 527868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: who was Dan Streetmentioner again? I know he's an H2G2 character, but forget what he did < 1323179214 550127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1323179217 860774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and write the book on tenses < 1323179230 520822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does Braid do anything like PH's amazing neutrino gun? < 1323179231 522168 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's the author of "Time Traveler's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations". < 1323179239 700064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd mentally refer to the timelines as colors < 1323179243 712524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just think it's a funny name. < 1323179245 523984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (you activate it, a random ship blows up, and you have N seconds to aim it) < 1323179246 378395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the green timeline is pretty obviously green, because everything in it glows green < 1323179258 995525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: world 1's all about that < 1323179263 881783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (during that time, the other player still controls the ship, in a sort of limbo state) < 1323179266 894796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you attempt to cause a time paradox, it makes things temporarily invulnerable < 1323179272 509922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you fail to aim at the ship in time, you blow up and the other player revives) < 1323179274 624552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1323179283 264408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not done too well, though, it's too limited in order to make the time reversal work < 1323179290 56915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the ending is annoyingly rub-it-in-your-face-y < 1323179309 314267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323179312 214535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I'd figured out what was going to happen right at the start of 1-1, mentally reversing the cutscene because everything had been happening backwards that world so far < 1323179323 408322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need to actually force me to sit through the cutscene played backwards, I already mentally reversed it < 1323179342 846226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads one of the least statistically likely distros for him to download
< 1323179371 572294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux MInt? < 1323179383 332339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's popular enough that it's not unlikely < 1323179387 959930 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mutable-integer Linux. < 1323179390 154071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, some BSD variant that hardly anyone's heard of < 1323179403 223957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch, Linux Mint is so unlikely that I didn't even remember it exists < 1323179403 557356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmmm... Oracle Enterprise < 1323179405 861816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll say MidnightBSD because I saw it mentioned in someone's sig once, and have never heard of it otherwise, that counts as pretty statistically unlikely < 1323179415 565723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs aren't distros, really < 1323179416 752204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're OSes < 1323179423 113402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all distros are OSes ofc) < 1323179434 983948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Linux Mint are trying to reimplement Gnome 2 functionality as a Gnome 3 addon atm < 1323179439 491281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an interesting approach to the problem < 1323179450 569809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, midnightbsd is the one that tries to be nextstep :) < 1323179464 185610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distro is actually Fedora < 1323179476 685179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that unlikely? < 1323179500 682190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rpm + poettering < 1323179511 203609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poettering? < 1323179532 460130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lennart poettering, to blame for PulseAudio among others < 1323179653 74305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I'm using it for a statistically unlikely purpose too, as part of Project Last Chance, which I named *just now* < 1323179677 707984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a scary name < 1323179681 744131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it the last chance for < 1323179685 611004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit: i was being sarcastic these are just slightly better than goto, why do you people upvote me? i was trolling. please downvote me. < 1323179685 980363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--reddit < 1323179700 245454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HUMANITY < 1323179710 441705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but i can't answer that without giving it away < 1323179712 635336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott saves the world. < 1323179713 453088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be shameful < 1323179726 622589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, if so, I hope it succeeds < 1323179726 634798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure I believe you < 1323179739 692655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not related with the reason I was online yesterday, right? < 1323179757 162634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're online most days! < 1323179836 393713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not always for the same reason < 1323179853 59697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1323179931 55914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323179939 472741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to need to find a usb stick, aren't i. < 1323179956 545066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "> If you have more than one nested loop, labels and break with a target can make things much clearer. < 1323179956 595119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying "if you're going to murder somebody in their sleep, at least smother them with a pillow rather than slitting their throat, so there's less blood for somebody else to clean up." < 1323179956 595194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain that, of all the multiply-nested loops I've ever written while coding for a living, I or someone else later rewrote them to be not multiply-nested loops, and the result was always better. I can't remember writing one in years now, because they're pretty much always wrong." < 1323179975 309639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is actually speechless
< 1323180202 543846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1323180234 186000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1323180259 479526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested loops aren't even like... a problem. are they? unless poorly written (but the same can be said about any programming construct) < 1323180259 644011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You never want to iterate through a 2D array, right? < 1323180269 419590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. when I do it's usually wrong. < 1323180323 760677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it amazed me that people code for a living while being that bad. < 1323180328 571830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently being confused by nested loops. < 1323180356 692222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is something you should stop being confused about after like, a few months? maybe a year at most if you're learning strictly through university education. < 1323180410 886666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how he feels about recursion? < 1323180437 808802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying 6 gigs over partitions is so slow < 1323180460 817164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: imagine a future where copying 100 GBs is like copying 100 MBs < 1323180467 99153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so good.) < 1323180476 960295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called not having a shitty laptop disk < 1323180489 679756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a shitty laptop disk.
< 1323180496 191666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1323180504 177917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship shitty disks < 1323180517 933237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :two monitors is awesome. < 1323180527 120060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can procrastinate /and/ watching starcraft 2 replays. ALL DAY. < 1323180530 275725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drink beer. yesssss. < 1323180542 439523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ettuihsdifuhsiuhiwuehiuwehr wet type type type type. I can type. < 1323181509 835791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ettuihsdifuhsiuhiwuehiuwehr in the type system < 1323181537 420503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323181759 14623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1323181773 894473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :encouraging. < 1323181827 128023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1323181898 140804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323182218 655723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323182226 313490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you ever heard of cyclomatic complexity? < 1323182232 337823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323182236 847619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people think minimizing it's the eventual goal of programming < 1323182237 921703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're lambdabot < 1323182241 590497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you met one of those people < 1323182262 185828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eventual goal of programming is to obsolete itself, surely? < 1323182270 774604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly not < 1323182294 439588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the best program is one that can do whatever you need it to in as easy a manner as possible < 1323182303 790293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if the singularity happens, and you create an AI, and it realises in a panic that it's not Friendly, but is nonetheless well-intentioned, and deletes itself in a panic < 1323182305 952135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not needing to reprogram = easier < 1323182334 358934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's taking anthropomorphism to rather stunning levels. < 1323182346 283414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1323182356 278897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since the whole point of Friendliness(TM)(C)(R) is to /define/ "well-intentioned" in such a setting < 1323182370 892938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant well-intentioned in the ordinary-language sense < 1323182379 272359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, which refers to humans < 1323182382 475694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it thinks there's a reasonable probability it'll later go haywire, so takes steps to prevent that < 1323182405 553531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you need to define a framework in which it makes sense for it to do those things... < 1323182433 450602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, work with me here unetbootin < 1323182460 437184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's quite possible that a strong AI would be reasonably anthropomorphisable < 1323182463 445035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i could imagine an ai somehow concluding that it would be impossible for it to improve its intelligence without losing its friendliness < 1323182468 977011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose we can even think about the possibility of a non-singularity strong AI < 1323182477 298936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the context is non-Friendly < 1323182489 784030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's more or less likely than a singularity one < 1323182495 581035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, (a) I don't really want to talk about AI (b) I think ais523's last claim is so ridiculous that it would end in a flamewar if I did < 1323182517 148044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1323182522 911377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we got rather sidetracked < 1323182547 345998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(simple thought experiment: a strong AI that turns out not to be very good at programming, and thus doesn't want to reprogram itself) < 1323182557 20657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds an article indirectly claiming refcounting is faster than gc
< 1323182559 535409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee hee hee < 1323182582 337265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how many references does it have? < 1323182587 53107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not convinced it isn't, in all cases < 1323182598 458468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd rather depend on what you were doing < 1323182671 255405 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-185.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323182676 958657 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-17.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1323182682 5427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, refcounting mucks with the cache and inserts more branches than anyone previously thought possible < 1323182692 803371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's practically made out of overhead < 1323182706 827793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed; I think there are programs for which refcounting would have no cache impact at all, though < 1323182714 50682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1323182717 46982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :branches slow anything down, though < 1323182720 400868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you create a new object, you're going to be touching its memory anyway < 1323182758 305285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you stop referring to one, or add another reference to one, it's possible that you don't touch its memory in the process with a normal GC, but it's entirely plausible that there would be programs where you always did < 1323182773 82372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you have program which uses memory generally just below the limit, with garbage sometimes pushing it over, but rarely touching most of memory < 1323182788 374076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you can get rid of the branches in some cases too < 1323182918 474613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait! < 1323182921 603544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _do_ have usb media here < 1323182926 967784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray! < 1323183129 31750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323183177 718271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeee testing < 1323183178 540440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fun. < 1323183816 718632 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323183817 221943 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323183824 246281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323183868 378612 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1323184108 962669 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also write an arbitrarily bad legit GC that will be slower than ref counting :P < 1323184115 200204 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually written such a GC. < 1323184139 504032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1323184160 962761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although refcounting wouldn't have worked at all for that system, a mark-and-sweep whenever you change a pointer is not fast) < 1323184214 754906 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you've also written LAME systems that do 85% of a GC but don't technically GC and therefore are memory safe woop-de-friggin'-doo :P < 1323184502 691830 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323184515 901946 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1323184540 522416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323184550 531872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hello elliott's USB media < 1323184580 828552 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says hi. < 1323184597 110712 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is actually a full external drive thingy.) < 1323184696 453894 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:10:14: Of course you've also written LAME systems that do 85% of a GC but don't technically GC and therefore are memory safe woop-de-friggin'-doo :P < 1323184701 625902 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor thinks that ais523 is cpressey. < 1323184710 852918 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1323184711 556128 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323184714 225364 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I do. < 1323184714 829062 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323184727 395506 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to correct myself ... < 1323184734 742199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course YOU've also written LAME systems that do 85% of a GC but don't technically GC and therefore are memory safe woop-de-friggin'-doo :P < 1323184734 875316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought it was an eightebed reference, somehow < 1323184737 727066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was confused < 1323184760 349335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know what was going on there :P < 1323184765 36679 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. You have discovered my secret. < 1323184768 281099 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My secret is that I am cpressey. < 1323184793 480971 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is a second-generation, outside�in, pull-based, multiple-stakeholder, multiple-scale, high-automation, agile methodology. It describes a cycle of interactions with well-defined outputs, resulting in the delivery of working, tested software that matters. | Everyone in #esoteric is Chris Pressey | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323184796 953616 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as much as it pains me to admit it, I may have been... WRONG about something. < 1323184828 211897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a fact, I hope? < 1323184832 154860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote correct opinion < 1323184832 370380 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323184840 328537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :380) I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything Yes. And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion. < 1323184855 571105 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop quoting my monologues. < 1323184869 489821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now he's going to remove it and readd it with proper spacing. < 1323184873 532712 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*re�dd < 1323184883 565976 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is Phantom_Hoover? Knew it. < 1323184887 45853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: brilliant correction < 1323184906 723839 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand by it. < 1323184951 755687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps we should replace - by an umlaut everywhere < 1323184987 142068 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*diaeresis mark, and it's only for non-diphthong vowel sequences. < 1323185067 204791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: exactly, a diaeresis only works on vowels < 1323185075 955220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, we'd have to generalise it to umlauts everywhere else it was used < 1323185081 569131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1323185103 793055 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing is, the thing I might have been wrong about might have been a /software/ opinion. < 1323185170 996260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you've actually started liking RPM? < 1323185172 833963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not that bad? < 1323185194 728374 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is exceptionally difficult for me to type a combining diaeresis mark in this particular configuration. < 1323185205 30124 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hahaha no. < 1323185222 400434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ditto, although I can put it on top of a bunch of letters < 1323185224 41838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION experiments
< 1323185229 62981 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That'sẗheẅorstïdeaÏveëverḧeard. < 1323185233 709747 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try diaeresis + space < 1323185245 571274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did, I got double quote < 1323185248 867113 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323185273 517269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :äbcdëfgḧïjklmnöqrsẗüvẅẍÿz < 1323185278 351083 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to type a letter then combining diaeresis mark into a text editor with proper Unicode input, then copyp̈asta it to XChat. < 1323185283 268375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, ẍ? < 1323185290 438333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that's a precomposed or not
< 1323185328 7348 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323185332 912979 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this /works/? < 1323185364 964804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~liveuser? < 1323185366 434856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shame < 1323185370 415081 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1323185376 394252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois empathelliott < 1323185385 64328 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, what of it? < 1323185391 551447 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same applies to elliott. < 1323185403 824317 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, Empathy, "the" and "to" are perfectly cromulent words. < 1323185407 4191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :empathelliott: I took it as an MSN reference < 1323185408 704003 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... it's just redlining everything. < 1323185416 900490 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empathy. Empathy I can spell. < 1323185425 875799 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop that. < 1323185455 54081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dictionaries installed? < 1323185462 138452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, try typing a word that's a word in every language < 1323185463 641177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to test < 1323185494 937037 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323185557 980456 :empathelliott!~liveuser@95.149.243.54 PART :#esoteric < 1323185665 154845 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ẍ is ẌTREME < 1323185716 621649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is that a combining umlaut that was generated by my "put an umlaut on x" key sequence? or does my font renderer just suck at x-umlaut? < 1323185726 254204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, what language uses that anyway?) < 1323185737 649285 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xtreme ones < 1323185738 136624 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1323185760 63111 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yours is not a X plus combining diaeresis, it's actually some crazy symbol. < 1323185770 707166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323185786 660460 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically LATIN CAPITAL X WITH DIAERESIS < 1323185798 803151 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/capital/? < 1323185811 181837 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, I just searched for the symbol X-P < 1323185812 763969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if ẍ is capital, what's Ẍ? < 1323185823 973309 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also be LATIN SMALL LETTER X WITH DIAERESIS :P < 1323185833 996796 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, my compose lexicon doesn't know it < 1323185849 3710 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forcing me to use Ẍ. < 1323185896 528601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 380 < 1323185899 253719 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :380) I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything Yes. And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion. < 1323185901 252280 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^̈ <(I AM SO UNHAPPY) < 1323185908 707136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my compose doesn't know it either, I typed it as altgr-[ x < 1323185914 252613 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :� <(I AM PAINFULLY HAPPY) < 1323185925 916447 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No altgr here in [GOD BLESS] America. < 1323185939 246179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so what modifier key's just to the right of the spacebar? < 1323185950 363750 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Another alt. I have it mapped to compose. < 1323185957 529292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1323185969 39930 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need SO MANY ALTS in [GOD BLESS] America. < 1323185974 163468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :differentiating alt from altgr is presumably for people who want to type in foreignese, then < 1323185982 47582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mapped caps lock to compose; compose is more useful) < 1323185988 871169 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCUSE ME < 1323185995 939950 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPS-LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL* < 1323186005 119173 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[1] I actually typed this with shift :P < 1323186014 139513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1323186017 47396 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1323186022 89853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '380s/ I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything Yes. And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion. < 1323186034 545741 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nobody speaks foreignese < 1323186036 870509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1323186045 355710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't mean you don't want to type in it < 1323186054 97451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that people don't want to say the results out loud < 1323186083 755191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THANKS ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO TYPE NOW < 1323186104 256369 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold: þ̈ < 1323186127 244439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :þ̈e glorious þ̈orn < 1323186138 369603 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um you must apostrophise correctly even when imitating. < 1323186142 925550 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you will become somebody else < 1323186155 938579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was a direct quote from memory < 1323186164 213138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it was unlikely to contain an apostrophe < 1323186170 161902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's one of the higher-voted ones on bash.org, IIRC) < 1323186226 843249 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : HI EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!! < 1323186226 855568 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : try pressing the the Caps Lock key < 1323186226 855683 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : O THANKS!!! ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO WRITE NOW!!!!!!! < 1323186226 855728 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck me < 1323186255 849267 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash's top quotes are so unfunny now that it's 2011 and the internet isn't so boring any more < 1323186261 366471 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did it get more boring < 1323186290 835017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow... < 1323186302 486017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I got the lack of apostrophe right < 1323186303 859276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know this: but if you type a s/// on a line by itself in skype < 1323186306 962198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I got everything else wrong < 1323186307 800802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it corrects the last thing you said. < 1323186314 587396 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: we found that out ages ago < 1323186315 772860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF IT'S BORING YOU JUST NEED CRUISE CONTROL < 1323186317 419035 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more specifically, fizzie < 1323186317 916093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: does that work when spoken, too? < 1323186324 368494 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1323186328 634004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "knew about it first" hird < 1323186337 514261 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: message <<= message' < 1323186343 512963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, regexes are quite hard to pronounce, so I'm not sure it's ever been tested < 1323186402 470931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :esslashhardslasheasyslash < 1323186427 94957 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You need to come up with a scary name for Feather's temporal stuff such that (<<=) is an operation in them; people will spend ages trying to figure out the mysterious $ABSTRACT_NAMEs but someone will write a blog post reassuring everyone: $ABSTRACT_NAMEs are just like monads, see, the operations even look alike: (<<=) (>>=)! < 1323186429 702172 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going somewhere with that < 1323186452 207443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your statement is confused but I think I know what you mean < 1323186461 332118 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confused or confusing? :-) < 1323186477 784205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more confusing than anything else mentioning Feather < 1323186538 678589 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323187011 712034 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I better find something that confirms my prejudices soon < 1323187015 855420 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I'll get ANGRY < 1323187239 474542 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/e9ed/ ThinkGeek truly excells in advertising terrible ideas. < 1323187469 426180 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log (cp|ZOM|cat).*thinkgeek < 1323187494 732500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-14.txt:14:54:13: 342) wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive < 1323187500 156165 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a quote. < 1323187527 841158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube won't stay fullscreened if I click on my other monitor < 1323187534 469445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1323187620 335528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log cp.*ZOM.*cat < 1323187625 975384 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-06.txt:16:04:29: `log (cp|ZOM|cat).*thinkgeek < 1323187631 362148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1323187810 554194 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAYPAL: Only a nonprofit can use the Donate button. < 1323187810 717242 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME: That’s false. It says right in the PDF of instructions for the Donate button that it can be used for “worthy causes.” < 1323187810 729471 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAYPAL: I haven’t seen that PDF. And what you’re doing is not a worthy cause, it’s charity. < 1323187810 729652 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME: What’s the difference? < 1323187810 729762 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAYPAL: You can use the donate button to raise money for a sick cat, but not poor people. < 1323187812 711681 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323187864 247093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1323188250 879668 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Join the HTML5 demo. < 1323188260 164189 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: For things that you can't get with HTML5, use youtube-dl. < 1323188270 926777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Between them, joyous multi-monitor fullscreen. < 1323188337 458669 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like grids. < 1323188341 702445 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Things you can't get with HTML5 = almost every single fucking video < 1323188360 896950 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not in my experience *shrugs* < 1323188390 632910 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that 'a sphere' is to 'a ball' as 'a grid' is to 'tiles' < 1323188415 382758 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that stand up? < 1323188570 643244 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah.i know it stands up < 1323188593 36481 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose some say lattice < 1323188648 719089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a sphere is like an orange rind, and a ball is like the delicious squishy insides. < 1323188665 551747 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as wiki told me :-> < 1323188668 724642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a open ball. < 1323188695 150147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please tell me that actually happened < 1323188709 638626 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if tiles is the subset of R^2 lacking the grid, that is, horizontal and vertical lines at integers, then no matter whether your ball is closed or not, the correspondence is that the former is the boundary of the latter < 1323188710 361572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323188776 411799 :elliott!~liveuser@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323188817 855217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323188878 67249 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323188897 655791 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the euclidean topology < 1323188953 174117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:24:55: elliott: please tell me that actually happened < 1323188972 937285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are there cases where it's useful to change the topology of R^n? or even the uniform structure, i guess the usual metrics are uniformly equivalent? < 1323188975 664572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the paypal quote? apparently: http://www.regretsy.com/2011/12/05/cats-1-kids-0/ < 1323188980 620916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably paraphrased :P < 1323188983 316701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but not to you :( < 1323189015 291184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess the lack of quote marks was misleading < 1323189264 141501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't know what you mean by "the general case" but that is exactly what ARC does, so I'm going to say it is possible. < 1323189264 191522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clang static analyser traces through all possible code paths adding retains, releases and autoreleases where appropriate. It requires a little more programmer effort than GC because ARC can't detect cycles, but it is very fast." < 1323189281 328450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I woke up in a fairytale universe where object lifetime is statically determinable in general. < 1323189302 175659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not going to get into a pissing match about whether GC or reference counting is faster. I don't really care, though I think you're wrong." < 1323189305 333605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit, he thinks I'm wrong!!! < 1323189341 454658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you in /another/ GC vs reference counting debate? < 1323189355 117996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was i in one previously < 1323189361 943482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no this is me just yelling at stupid redditors < 1323189363 441835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as always < 1323189369 105239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while my comment karma plummets < 1323189372 593332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait nevermind the last one was JIT vs interpreter (lol) < 1323189410 620095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nooooooo, the guy I'm disagreeing with wrote a LOG VIEWER APP for the IPAD. < 1323189423 429064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dealing with a SERIOUS DEVELOPER Here. < 1323189425 609623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit man he's legit. < 1323189431 770694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1323189434 575071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THAT REALLY THE ICON < 1323189435 395238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMFAO < 1323189437 62908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://itunes.apple.com/app/consuela/id481121105?mt=8 < 1323189444 379079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good god this thing is hideous < 1323189445 743135 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1323189449 729564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure it's uh < 1323189458 183823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :computationally intensive enough to give him data on refcounting vs. gc performance < 1323189470 501767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean to say there is no chance he isn't just parrotting this because apple likes refcounting < 1323189542 496032 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1593#comic < 1323189569 96643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously the most naive implementation of automatic memory management is the best. < 1323189573 597264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about. < 1323189759 312487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1542684914/image_reasonably_small.jpg < 1323189765 106794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see his GC-related anger. < 1323189803 669746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell he passionately cares about this subject based on his statement: "I don't really care." < 1323189867 720160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if he really didn't care he wouldn't follow it up with "but ur wrong" :) < 1323190058 710869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, the GHC C codebase uses "nat" as an unsigned integer type < 1323190140 980415 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1323190165 549773 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: I woke up in a fairytale universe where object lifetime is statically determinable in general. // This fairytale universe is kind of terrifying what with how the halting problem is solvable :P < 1323190185 137097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND: APPLE DECREED ITS O < 1323190189 293988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IT SO < 1323190196 93317 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah.. dumb people have nicer dreams < 1323190199 706288 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^nightmares < 1323190205 18965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just an ACADEMIC with your ACADEMIC objections disproven by REFLECTIVE 3D DOCKS. < 1323190405 91683 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think I should put a donate button on codu.org for people to help my sick cat. < 1323190409 405208 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's got diabetes y'know. < 1323190433 805918 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK though; I'm not helping people. < 1323190491 713895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I woke up in a fairtale universe where the result of a program is known statically. < 1323190509 56209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to run programs. < 1323190625 467050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, everyone knows the outcome of their lives and the universe at large, yet they continue to act, powerless to stop or change the inevitable and yet drawn to participate in it. < 1323190871 976599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323190920 498626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just start talking about @ whenever anyone disagrees with me on reddit. < 1323191051 42465 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what comment thread is this in? < 1323191068 380966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, http://www.reddit.com/r/coding/comments/n28zy/all_about_arc_on_ios/c35r1zm?context=3. I don't recommend it. < 1323191100 434544 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you underestimate my appetite for idiocy before breakfast < 1323191413 747583 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does apple support any interpreted, gc'd languages for recent iOS versions? < 1323191486 456402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print scalar "hi hi hi hi" =~ m/iejiwjer/g < 1323191498 426354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print scalar "hi hi hi hi" =~ m/iejiwjer/g == 0 < 1323191499 292480 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1323191526 537009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think you're allowed to use interpreters these days < 1323191543 346605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't run anything that the user gives you. or from the network. or just about anything _empowering_ or useful < 1323191610 545205 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"allowed to use interpreters"? you mean, like, your app from the app store is allowed to be bundled with an interpreter that it runs on, or that there are actual gp interpreters in the app store that anyone can target? < 1323191659 312483 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like frex, is there a jvm i could put on an ipod that hasnt been rooted? < 1323191664 795471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: former < 1323191669 418266 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1323191672 116121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is covered by as long as you don't run anything that the user gives you. or from the network. or just about anything _empowering_ or useful < 1323191678 779959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be wrong. but i'm not < 1323191679 282007 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha < 1323191709 387123 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah. apple sucks. < 1323191714 186699 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to get breakfast
< 1323191726 586955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can you measure gases in ounces? Because I just did. I don't even know if that's something you can do.." Husky, youtube starcraft commentator > 1323192047 957352 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192052 593392 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192053 107308 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192069 508686 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192074 142973 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192074 657367 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192121 743140 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192126 377990 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192126 894057 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192169 329811 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192173 954348 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192174 465976 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192213 325152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323192213 511779 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192217 963017 JOIN :#esoteric > 1323192218 477679 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323192374 271382 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally a fair thing to do < 1323193100 897199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, no. < 1323193110 10360 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solid ounces, maybe. < 1323193113 505936 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fluid ounces, no. < 1323193160 462445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fluid ounces are really liquid ounces. If it's a gas, its volume depends on its pressure. I suppose you could assume a pressure though *shrugs* < 1323193609 434923 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323193640 766971 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would assume STP < 1323193743 267920 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there are compressible liquids... < 1323193755 401088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1323193762 999838 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :answers.com is actually useful for once < 1323193765 633524 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Could_there_be_a_compressible_liquid < 1323194010 822711 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I clicked on other links from that page X_X < 1323194015 524081 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What day is Christmas celebrated in Portugal?" < 1323194155 540077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi" =~ /(?{return 'hi'})/ < 1323194156 751013 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't return outside a subroutine at (re_eval 1) line 1. < 1323194163 420957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi" =~ /(?{'hi'})/ < 1323194164 715804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1323194862 87068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; print "hi" =~ /(?{$x = 2})/ < 1323194863 523283 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global symbol "$x" requires explicit package name at (re_eval 1) line 1. < 1323194898 889819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; print "hi" =~ /(?{my $x = 2})(?{print $x})/ < 1323194900 128445 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global symbol "$x" requires explicit package name at (re_eval 2) line 2. < 1323194906 495845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 2 eh? < 1323195006 989460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323195070 666228 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelfload moves to bitbucket: PROGRESS < 1323195145 500624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi" =~ /(hi|)/ < 1323195146 753636 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323195151 357452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "" =~ /(hi|)/ < 1323195158 614561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. SANITY. < 1323195164 777333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Speaking of bitbucket, is it just me or is eldis trying very hard to be HackBot? ;) < 1323195209 538396 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323195302 141770 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I dunno, I haven't looked at HackBot < 1323195325 350328 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, well, it isn't intentionally at least < 1323195424 417403 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323195592 242681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323195603 687534 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I haven't looked at the code, but, y'know < 1323195612 21729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo here are commands | sed 's/are/there be/' < 1323195614 497468 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :here there be commands < 1323195835 497704 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323196058 210996 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323196168 960173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi hi hi" =~ /(hi (?{print "1"}))+/ < 1323196170 391897 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :11hi < 1323196185 720879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O? < 1323196200 139606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323196205 444349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :capture group < 1323196214 751611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... no < 1323196235 241612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print scalar "hi hi hi" =~ /(hi (?{print "1"}))+/ < 1323196236 462831 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111 < 1323196245 869072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi hi hi" =~ /(hi )+/ < 1323196247 159944 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323196256 25669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, yes. < 1323196320 942318 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323196386 134420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hi hi hi" =~ /(sup(?{print 'hi'}))?/ < 1323196400 60218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "suphi hi hi" =~ /(sup(?{print 'hi'}))?/ < 1323196401 177688 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hisup < 1323196480 723801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x; print "suphi hi hi" =~ /(sup(?{$x = 1}))?/; print $x < 1323196482 30354 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup1 < 1323196492 109418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay. < 1323196568 371182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $parse_url = qr#(?{$p=0})([(]\s*(?{$p=1}))?\K(((https?|ftp)://)|www\.)(([0-9]{1,3}\.){4}|([a-z0-9\-]+\.)*[a-z0-9\-]+\.[a-z]{2,4})(:[0-9]+)?([/?][^ "]*(?{'[^ ,;\.:">' . ($p? ')' : '') . ']'}))?#i; < 1323196577 682384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick. someone debug this. < 1323196650 554139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323196651 418772 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :([0-9]{1,3}\.){4} < 1323196658 27264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323196658 877270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323196659 931645 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it accepts an extra dot < 1323196661 15246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :P < 1323196673 75873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still doesn't work regardless of that. < 1323196740 471368 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is probably the crazy parentheses hack. < 1323196745 7659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it without that. < 1323196932 368421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the idea is to match URLs that are embedded in ()'s correctly when it's just the URL by itself < 1323196944 555465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to also match match URL's with () in them such as Wikipedia articles < 1323196977 767235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may have to concede and pick one. < 1323197039 923201 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matching parentheses can't be done in a regular language and I don't know Perl's regex extensions well enough to help < 1323197087 168576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done < 1323197102 298670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are examples of matching parentheses but that's not really what I'm doing < 1323197107 76049 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it can't < 1323197119 630150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl regex, yes. < 1323197137 986255 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and they aren't regular < 1323197156 788309 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as I said, I don't know the extensions well enough < 1323197305 281292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I just use (?{...}) which evaluated arbitrary Perl code and inserts the result into the regex at that position. < 1323197330 68878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \K which says to disregard everything before it for the purposes of capturing the result in the $& variable < 1323197341 266319 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*capturing the match < 1323197367 336004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though for some reason the \ appears red in emacs cperl-mode < 1323197379 185253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I'm using it incorrectly? < 1323197451 425467 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it unethical for me to ask for hints on https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1UK8EfHhrdZ2XrMMsvPk8DiEyQfaIbijkC4awkWFSdw4 ? (The problem asks if there are any series that converges but the series of the cubes of the terms diverges) < 1323197460 400703 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if there are any such series, show it) < 1323197527 497514 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I want the answer directly < 1323197600 27402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323197701 976600 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, it sounds trivial but I keep running into exceptions and edge cases < 1323197719 64994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print qw(#hi #hi #hi) < 1323197720 228499 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#hi#hi#hi < 1323197776 179339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, lambdabot, how many messages has elliott tried to jam into you in my absence? < 1323197777 86043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323197795 225046 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? < 1323197811 597194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, it's not unethical. does that help? < 1323197832 36311 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. So, kallisti, any help? < 1323197835 955760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1323197848 43452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 2 problems, one of them being a regex. :P < 1323197886 72001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323197925 27536 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, thing is, it's sort of a math contest going on at my school < 1323197929 998064 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323197930 388934 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323197930 567996 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323197937 476074 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I could talk and then mention that I was talking < 1323197939 198183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1323197940 632944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dea < 1323197941 460619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1323197951 162068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably not going to hand it in though, since I still have no idea < 1323197958 139389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many hs updates Sgeo tell me < 1323197977 379562 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, all of them? Are you asking since a particular date, or? < 1323198000 747709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, since last I trod the fair shores of Edinburgh and tasted its sweet, sweet wifi. < 1323198011 367448 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What date was that? < 1323198015 504839 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323198022 889869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunday. < 1323198053 883758 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a bunch < 1323198086 125704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Pesterlogs, I think... maybe < 1323198267 837658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many regexes match themselves < 1323198272 699738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious one is . < 1323198275 958532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1323198280 282931 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darnit < 1323198281 838610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.* < 1323198309 687233 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any regex with no special characters < 1323198318 851039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323198362 473776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably write a quine-regex via (?{}) < 1323198404 222420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quine-regex? < 1323198432 173682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stick code inside the {} that outputs a regex that matches the regex string itself < 1323198739 937156 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323198831 945128 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323198927 565568 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebu < 1323199126 857609 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Is it unethical for me to ask for hints on https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1UK8EfHhrdZ2XrMMsvPk8DiEyQfaIbijkC4awkWFSdw4 ? (The problem asks if there are any series that converges but the series of the cubes of the terms diverges)" this is trivial < 1323199173 657737 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparison of terms doesn't work for conditionally convergent series, according to Wikipedia < 1323199185 741985 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditionally convergent means what? < 1323199213 850079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a > 2 then this-thing-converges else this-thing-diverges < 1323199221 262138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323199225 236172 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The series converges, but the series made by the absolute values of the terms of the series does not. < 1323199230 528903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. :P < 1323199235 970870 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again, according to my memory of Wikipedia) < 1323199247 782722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm i misunderstood the question, so let me think again :) < 1323199270 920774 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1323199299 683112 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by my first hint < 1323199353 172368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do it for series with positive entries? < 1323199393 366486 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a series with all positive entries is absolutely convergent, and as such it's easy to use the direct comparison test < 1323199411 715501 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a convergent series with all positive entries, I mean) < 1323199508 399707 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1323199640 374558 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that helps, though. Although if there is an example of series converging but the series of cubes diverging, it looks really really weird < 1323199678 202524 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratio test has to fail, can't be all positive, can't be a simple alternating series (either abs values are non-monotonic or alternation of signs isn't straightforward) < 1323199749 411907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, does \Sigma 1/n^3 converge? < 1323199805 304850 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to head over to the school soon < 1323199805 994336 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1323199821 341851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i can think of two hints < 1323199830 323090 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1323199833 426010 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) the yes/no answer < 1323199844 168925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) the crucial property of cubing < 1323199884 694768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I'm not sure how that helps, though. Although if there is an example of series converging but the series of cubes diverging, it looks really really weird" i doubt it helps much, but it's a more interesting question < 1323199907 349389 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for all values of 3 more than 1 < 1323199927 593869 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so great about cubing? I mean, it preserves sign, and for b^3 where |b|<1 then b^3 < b, but I don't know if that really helps < 1323199960 462742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not the crucial property < 1323199971 466956 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a crucial property, but not the one i used < 1323199989 294614 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't really know of any other properties of cubing
< 1323200007 56963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323200030 598721 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I mistated the property, it's |b^3|<|b| < 1323200046 810380 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1323200058 395215 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not it < 1323200063 714488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know other properties of cubing :( < 1323200096 708026 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i stated you what 2) is, you'd say duh < 1323200114 662241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :told < 1323200121 114298 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323200128 845585 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0^3=0 < 1323200162 244626 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sure is true. also 2^3 = 8 < 1323200168 904390 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sign of x^3 = the sign of x? < 1323200186 148141 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... is that supposed to be helpful? A series can diverge while the limit as n goes to inf of a_n goes to 0 < 1323200187 789351 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure is, also ^ is called a caret < 1323200216 103058 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just playing guess the property < 1323200231 457547 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and losing < 1323200240 481056 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DSDSD < 1323200248 351145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323200265 397963 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I already guessed that property < 1323200274 540853 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well anyhow that's the two hints i can think of (assuming i haven't made a mistake myself, which i doubt because this is kind of simple) < 1323200280 407280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me if you want one of them < 1323200291 630605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The property, I guess < 1323200300 770092 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I should ask for property or the yes/no < 1323200345 936569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well by now you should know 1), but perhaps you don't have any idea. < 1323200361 174707 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that no, there is no such series < 1323200365 372562 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not certain < 1323200372 506864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, i shall tell you: restricting to abs less than 1, the smaller your abs is, the less you get smaller. < 1323200385 390200 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in abs < 1323200393 180524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when cubed < 1323200393 370300 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1323200416 94090 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to re-evaluate my opinion on asking for 1 < 1323200424 339956 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i guess not near 1 < 1323200435 299330 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think for small enough abs < 1323200439 179348 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as in, whether or not there's such a series < 1323200477 467005 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to wait for the derivative 3x^2 to get smaller than 1 < 1323200500 602326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well do you want to know < 1323200510 576623 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think < 1323200529 444063 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a series that converges but doesn't after cubing < 1323200604 539602 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to figure out how to find it, but it sounds like a pain in the ass. Maybe. < 1323200651 848504 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hmm, thanks < 1323200667 514800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. make it converge to 0 and keep making the sum bigger and bigger. < 1323200670 322976 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1323200677 502616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sums of cubes < 1323200703 430010 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1323200757 464819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. I will work on it, no more hints < 1323200767 274265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyhow, i shall tell you: restricting to abs less than 1, the smaller your abs is, the less you get smaller. < 1323200791 546210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the property i stated was kind of wrong anyway, it's kind of hard to come up with a way that doesn't spoil the actual inequality :D < 1323200916 840696 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the property you need is (ax)^3 = a^3 x^3 really :P < 1323201453 135908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323201503 680280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true for all integer n greater than 1 actually, for even ones, quite trivially, for odd ones, by the same argument < 1323201587 313524 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1323201687 324965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323201711 806123 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about (a + b)^3 = a^3 + b^3 < 1323201750 988285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice equality, it even lets you prove the converse < 1323201873 849797 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still thinking about it the wrong way < 1323201893 493986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep it simple < 1323201902 375464 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still consistently visualizing all positives, with the hint you gave me < 1323201905 249316 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that has to be wrong < 1323201987 294934 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first hint was just silly, all you need is (ax)^3 = a^3 x^3 < 1323202159 927228 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow i think for all symmetric increasing functions not equal to y = x in any neighborhood of 0, you can find a series like this < 1323202192 804352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ones that aren't continuous < 1323202204 457761 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1323202216 932284 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y = ax for some a < 1323202229 748708 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems harder < 1323202263 531921 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1323202294 483241 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, do I want the cube root of -1 or something? < 1323202303 903763 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's just -1 < 1323202313 741770 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need any concrete values really < 1323202333 139342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it, I don't know what time I'd have to hand it in by, and I doubt they're ok with me using outside sources like this < 1323202443 56724 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323202443 233945 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323202443 234092 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323202446 380910 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take a sequence e_i going to zero, then keep the linear series near zero but never more than e_i in abs, while moving the cube series by a constant < 1323202454 45672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e_i < 1323202471 660853 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :move on to next i < 1323202482 647315 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get this far? < 1323202485 159167 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323202491 928013 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get anywhere < 1323202519 996179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, remove the "but" there :D damn i'm being careful. < 1323202551 97900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just not do this one < 1323202555 2428 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fail < 1323202583 518836 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go to the school and ask if having asked for help disqualifies my answer anyway. If so, I'm not going to bother < 1323202587 131487 :sebu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323202588 656727 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just do the next one < 1323202611 343553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323202788 325855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for continuous functions i think i have an exact characterization for when this kind of series can be constructed (even without symmetry) < 1323202889 123368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no works for all functions < 1323202912 466416 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so i'm rather sure f has the property iff it's not linear in any neighborhood of 0 < 1323202949 362255 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the property that there's a converging series a_i such that f(a_i) doesn't converge < 1323203004 776754 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-111.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323203013 170793 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-185.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1323203014 828554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously if you are linear in some nbhd then you don't have this property, by looking at tails < 1323203023 173146 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of stuff < 1323203066 100373 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1323203872 476850 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1323204324 970703 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't bothering
< 1323204772 860267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers making a starcraft 2 mod.
< 1323204930 697422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's a lot of units from story mod in the mod tool, but I wonder if you can get all of the upgrades as well. < 1323204970 465615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of random shit for terrans you could throw into the game, for a TvT map with all of Wings of Libery stuff available. It would be so incredibly broken. < 1323205433 878031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323205557 570913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: are there cases where it's useful to change the topology of R^n? or even the uniform structure, i guess the usual metrics are uniformly equivalent? < 1323205568 197038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know. < 1323205582 320202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very little about uniform structure. < 1323205683 308281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the different banach space topologies that come to mind are the same on finite dimensional spaces, i think < 1323205704 236726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(norm and weak-*) < 1323205841 568480 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so too < 1323205876 148782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe there's one based on considering only compact sets < 1323205930 429942 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you mean < 1323205937 635927 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that give a topology on R^n < 1323205955 452631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make a topology where only the original compact sets of R^n and the whole of R^n are closed < 1323206003 444476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hausdorff, but might have some uses... < 1323206053 228223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's T1 < 1323206103 594549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :every nonempty open set contains everything outside some radius < 1323206176 659238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1323206178 815512 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUDCraft. < 1323206180 487912 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes or yes? < 1323206189 294600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the whole space is compact, i think < 1323206190 151021 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose I should ask that in -minecraft ... ) < 1323206226 604111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: are there cases where it's useful to change the topology of R^n? or even the uniform structure, i guess the usual metrics are uniformly equivalent? < 1323206227 235673 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323206253 655507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about the metric-y topology in a Minkowski space, actually. < 1323206277 223489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't heard of that
< 1323206305 591870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an open ball is the set of points for which x^2 + y^2 + ... -t^2 < d. < 1323206315 218701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure all open sets are infinite. < 1323206332 896771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes they are. < 1323206355 527659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what's t < 1323206361 521697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :time < 1323206385 518172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is relativistic proper time distance < 1323206396 203660 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm what < 1323206405 405049 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the definition changes every second < 1323206409 40449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323206414 438983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1323206420 362342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the space is R^4 < 1323206421 295329 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but umm for R^n, do you take one to be time or what? < 1323206428 355813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1323206428 868582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1323206439 911826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a metric space, of course. < 1323206454 601317 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see that < 1323206472 183535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you mean metrizable < 1323206474 179045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the set of points at timelike or < sqrt(d) spacelike distance from the origin < 1323206503 191749 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323206508 504178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot the term for exactly 0
< 1323206511 703554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no, I mean (R^n, relativistic proper time) isn't a metric space. < 1323206520 558067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah. < 1323206528 281974 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having the cover to the HD fall out onto your bed is awesome! < 1323206541 335605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it includes the light cone, and some more beside < 1323206553 276241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say d had to be positive, actually. < 1323206558 647124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323206572 122281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This only occurred to me now.) < 1323206581 387535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in any case i have no intuition for what kind of topology this is < 1323206602 625267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all open sets are asymptotic to a double cone, so they all have infinite intersections. < 1323206617 281603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus all open sets are infinite. < 1323206658 759771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really asymptotic to a cone per se, since the radius grows squarely no? < 1323206668 571615 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they sure are infinite < 1323206671 145308 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all hyperboloids. < 1323206748 125011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think that's T1 too, at least < 1323206764 398914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1323206768 180467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1323206773 907897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, it's not Hausdorff. < 1323206797 422360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is obvious from infinite intersections < 1323206863 789669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think it's T1 < 1323206881 171222 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get this topology, is 0 really in all open sets? < 1323206896 981784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 0 really in all open sets? < 1323206900 408678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: obviously you translate < 1323206906 86017 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously? < 1323206914 538116 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a topology without doing that < 1323206916 819522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I stated that stupidly. < 1323206920 155598 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just stupid :D < 1323206932 578166 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's hausdorff < 1323206935 253659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah; d(x,y) < a where d is the proper time. < 1323206941 255278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1323206944 433026 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no so not < 1323206966 271561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow not t1 < 1323206977 985053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: proper time is imaginary not negative, you need to square < 1323206987 164966 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider two points in the same point in space < 1323206990 629183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the proper time squared < 1323207005 605131 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :their neighborhoods always contain the other no < 1323207019 691548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ...no set is T1 if you use that argument? < 1323207037 58022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean for a set to be T1? < 1323207050 277575 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean topology? < 1323207052 581422 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :T1 is each has a neighbourhood that doesn't contain the other. < 1323207054 451997 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh let me be more clear < 1323207065 161058 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider two points that are equal in space but not time < 1323207067 37965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i thought that for a moment, but you can separate with cones from other points < 1323207115 756108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What oerjan said. < 1323207116 707871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sets Phantom_Hoover gave are just a basis, not all open sets, and not all neighborhoods of x < 1323207127 874626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, subbasis even < 1323207158 226055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but if the times are -1 and 1 < 1323207162 144314 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how < 1323207165 225534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's not a basis? < 1323207184 561210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a basis should be closed under finite intersection iirc < 1323207184 755080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Adult X-rated Christmas Trivia Games Printables" < 1323207196 624653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the spambots have gone beyond the plausible limits of "specific" now < 1323207199 820724 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since all open sets are symmetric around the space hyperplane at time 0 < 1323207208 324570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not closed, but have smaller elements within < 1323207211 651456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, they're all hyperboloids, so you can fit one point into the gap around the middle of the other. < 1323207242 901996 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you also take time translations? i guess that would make sense. < 1323207255 751887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you take all translations < 1323207265 199444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :d(x,y) = d(x-y, 0) < 1323207265 404066 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so T1 but no open sets are disjoint < 1323207313 790378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm, WP just says that you can form all open sets from unions of the basis. < 1323207316 680366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think too < 1323207351 487830 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the definition of a basis < 1323207355 601355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes. but your sets are weaker than that, since you cannot find one of them inside the intersection of two of them always < 1323207357 319146 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for subbasis, you also take finite intersections < 1323207377 868762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, duh. < 1323207464 430452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc: given O1 and O2 in the basis, and x in their intersection, there must be O in the basis with x in O subset O1 intersect O2 < 1323207480 404273 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323207496 823817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right < 1323207518 882643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's enough to make sure the intersection is a union from the basis < 1323207540 986550 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you read my characterization for functions f such that there's a series that converges but sequence of f images doesn't < 1323207556 765566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323207566 837468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to have interrupted my log reading < 1323207582 921613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that there's no nbhd of 0 where it's linear < 1323207627 211080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323207941 80038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe I'll just start talking about @ whenever anyone disagrees with me on reddit. <-- and then you can exchange strategy tips with Zephir_AWT < 1323207955 113594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, he's Zephir_Banned now < 1323207970 756908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that Zephir_Banned2 < 1323208004 561813 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323208476 569903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : " Is it unethical for me to ask for hints on https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1UK8EfHhrdZ2XrMMsvPk8DiEyQfaIbijkC4awkWFSdw4 ? (The problem asks if there are any series that converges but the series of the cubes of the terms diverges)" this is trivial < 1323208506 222179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got a hunch it should be possible to get it with negatives < 1323208527 163533 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323208555 940129 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it? < 1323208557 614056 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323208562 943237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323208563 485502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example... < 1323208566 704459 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is < 1323208905 271362 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you get graue to bot a sock or something? < 1323209020 193902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I emailed graue about the spam, haven't got an answer yet < 1323209115 530405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok, i think your characterization is right < 1323209119 388661 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's too late to submit anything now < 1323209198 662231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or wait, don't you mean additive rather than linear < 1323209226 332848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean "y = ax" < 1323209226 901002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1323209260 560575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are equivalent except for hideously nonmeasurable functions < 1323209269 59927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1323209301 942954 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, in any case i think y = ax gives a characterization for absolutely all functions < 1323209320 865465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm i think linear may be right < 1323209399 723193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if f(ax) is not a f(x), then you can use x and ax at some point in a variation of your argument in the privmsg < 1323209419 52269 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me something to watch on the YouTuber. < 1323209425 884768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you need exactly one to be negative < 1323209429 797813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "no neighborhood of 0", you can pass on to a smaller one later < 1323209440 529433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh < 1323209453 524592 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make a sum out of them that gets either to zero or arbitrarily close, and you get f's to get bigger < 1323209467 443315 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because of f not necessarily being symmetric, i needed some extra work < 1323209496 469296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if f(-x) = f(x) fails enough, you can use those, and if f(-x) = f(x) _is_ true in a neighborhood, you can switch one of those for the other to get it negative < 1323209501 691574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323209506 954588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f(-x) = -f(x) < 1323209524 207691 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a better way < 1323209574 514937 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least it's symmetric in a nbhd of 0 < 1323209728 26828 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you find arbitrarily small r, r' for which f(r)/r and f(r')/r' are not equal, if r/r' rational you can get to 0 without going further than r+r' away from 0 on the linear side, and obviously you get somewhere on the f side < 1323209745 104542 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for irrational, you note that their sums are dense < 1323209768 906476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get the leftover bits as small as you want, and so converging < 1323209778 573859 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get arbitrarily close to 0 without leaving r+r'-nbhd, and it should then be clear enough that the f-side won't do the same < 1323209785 600885 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323209800 217596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite, we still need to move to smaller r, r' < 1323209826 272586 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise our jumps will not get smaller and the sum refuses to converge < 1323209845 421123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean the leftover from _all_ the r, r' pairs used should be a converging series < 1323209855 125187 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1323209871 135190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you could make it < 1/n^2 < 1323209885 69064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is we can estimate how many r's and -r''s we used, and that will approach something like their quotient when we get close to 0, so on the f side, you don't approach 0. < 1323209897 414576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323209897 591919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the quotient is different there < 1323209929 210903 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how i'm procrastinating from doing math by doing math < 1323209954 595135 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, I was disappointed by your use of quotient < 1323209959 97497 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :too concrete < 1323209964 595350 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to real work
< 1323210004 752564 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i think it's necessary to do concrete calculations in the case where f need not be continuous < 1323210017 939384 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for continuous f, it's kind of trivial < 1323210023 634732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now you need to generalize this to limits of diagrams in abelian categories to please copumpkin < 1323210032 591060 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just thought you were talking about a more general notion of quotient < 1323210062 483170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure the general notion of quotient in any way generalizes division < 1323210064 430404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: sorry, this is R -> R functions < 1323210079 402709 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. in many ways i guess. < 1323210086 616624 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323210093 851095 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely similarities < 1323210130 478490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z_m / Z_n _is_ isomorphic to Z_(m/n) if n divides m, i think. < 1323210136 133080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as groups < 1323210143 614841 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i have to go to work too. and by that i mean i have to go walk outside. < 1323210173 607810 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't A = A/B * B for abelian groups < 1323210191 231911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1323210205 916501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Z_4 is not Z_2 * Z_2 < 1323210211 812354 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1323210214 135584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1323210215 543337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff < 1323210252 982638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :different extensions < 1323210298 877493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, in module theory there is a concept of B being a summand in A < 1323210342 60803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(abelian groups ~ Z-modules) < 1323210535 47496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :our wiki recent changes have gotten into the christmas spirit, i see < 1323210596 109627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hark the herald spammers sing < 1323210706 41702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the little spammer boy < 1323210717 92743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :silent spam, holy spam < 1323210734 575618 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1323210835 887618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam nuts roasting on an open fire < 1323211100 478750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam the halls with bouts of holly < 1323211115 918694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boughs < 1323211269 937011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :porky the spam man < 1323211853 969357 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1323211878 918461 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323212509 758449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please stop spamming < 1323212513 111147 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cold outside < 1323212513 825796 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323212714 434791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :adeste spammantes < 1323212820 199847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323212856 667918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi, we've recently been plagued by spam from a guy named oerjan. Can you please kickban him? This is getting out of control. < 1323212922 631275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323213580 230885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have yourself a spammy little christmas < 1323213591 762079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1323213671 448271 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323214129 167417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammis angelicus < 1323214227 517206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :feliz spammidad < 1323214385 934998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh there's apparently a Call of Cthulu video game. < 1323214395 493006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Cthulhu < 1323214474 970349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, i guess there won't be an iwc eldritch christmas song this year