< 1322611574 215570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:26:12 is there a canonical example of an applicative functor that isn't a monad? < 1322611574 459025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:26:56 or rather can't have a monad constructed around it. < 1322611574 638038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:29:51 tnks: ZipList < 1322611574 638198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:29:53 tnks: ZipList < 1322611575 929488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAARGH < 1322611587 351426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan GET YOUR ZIPLIST JOIN FORMULATED, I NEED TO GO ON THE OFEFNSIVE ALREADY < 1322611587 533258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322611595 303726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan *OFDSIOFG < 1322611595 482683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322611934 176326 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322612417 106251 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1322612512 212995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover < 1322612515 661883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im disapointe in you < 1322612633 967797 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What? < 1322612636 482908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList join? < 1322612641 661602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322612664 291385 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make such a thing? < 1322612676 595862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan reckons he has. < 1322612677 777214 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322612692 116465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically just diagonalisation a la the reader monad, but tricksy because of the no guarantee of equal length. < 1322612718 221150 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but I thought that was "tricksy" as in "impossible" because of that. < 1322612719 106104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322612734 895965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, he wrote it out once in here I think and claimed it worked :P < 1322612764 837246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322612768 577528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose that's easily disprovable. < 1322612775 964054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need existential quantification. < 1322613863 995421 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322614305 614324 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322614314 878823 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had a way of indicating DEFCONery. < 1322614325 850871 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322614973 928295 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615056 169297 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Client Quit < 1322615101 74003 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615609 182562 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322615768 561865 :xmorc!~xmorc@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust8.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322615884 144314 :xmorc!~xmorc@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust8.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1322616626 480155 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/CricketBattingAverageHistogram.gif Wow. < 1322617225 165704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :integration should be banned < 1322617300 941737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: join me in "anti integration league" < 1322617305 863133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no that sounds racist < 1322617381 807147 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322617383 589175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322617696 581551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1322618146 665311 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1322618151 755845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : integration should be banned < 1322618151 934731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: join me in "anti integration league" < 1322618151 934916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait no that sounds racist < 1322618156 548818 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1322618163 884533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it be banned? < 1322618176 845751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's icky. Also uncomputable. < 1322618213 662267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^in the general case < 1322618235 173185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The general case including........... Newtonian physics < 1322618256 733512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um? < 1322618284 763230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means numeric approximations < 1322618286 722032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means pain :'( < 1322618368 16047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ("Um?"?) < 1322618922 149528 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322619561 390425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text $ "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619566 469351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619573 876382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORK WITH ME HERE LAMBDABOT < 1322619578 511887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322619578 745767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1322619593 807163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "pikhq: (" ++ fix ("\"" ++) ++ "Um" ++ fix (++ "\"?") ++ ")" < 1322619598 793399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322619610 959459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1322620383 637848 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-249.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322620389 109182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322622647 209594 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322622686 78153 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322624802 178910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) (+4) < 1322624803 653612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322624803 832476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.N... < 1322625022 964843 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm! < 1322625044 736794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((cos^2) + (sin^2)) < 1322625046 161233 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322625046 340217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322625049 242265 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((cos^2) + (sin^2)) 5 < 1322625050 491215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.9999999999999999 < 1322625077 453849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) < 1322625078 268942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322625078 448341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Dif a1' < 1322625078 448522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(*)', namely `x' < 1322625089 649378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+3) * x) (+4) 10 < 1322625091 47287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1322625091 226099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.N... < 1322625103 234125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@env < 1322625103 413130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v wn < 1322625107 586498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh /me finds L.hs < 1322625114 128051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta track down where deriv is from so I know what the constructor is < 1322625162 760799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/Data-Number-Dif.html < 1322625199 983858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> df (+3) (deriv (+3)) * x) < 1322625200 898445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625201 78121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625201 78298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625211 105467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er duh < 1322625223 794964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> df (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625224 744630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625224 923457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625224 923627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625226 775854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322625231 454654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> df (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625232 432779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section `+ 3' takes one argument, < 1322625232 611838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : but its type `Dif a' has none < 1322625232 612006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `df', namely `(+ 3)' < 1322625238 241175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1322625240 678640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) < 1322625241 658883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1322625247 510295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) < 1322625248 483493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322625248 662392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322625249 971527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ^ < 1322625263 305268 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mkDif < 1322625264 954411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Dif a -> Dif a < 1322625322 71788 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what's wrong with kallisti's original thing? < 1322625346 72639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types don't work < 1322625350 407986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+3) does not match (Dif _) < 1322625353 233690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's (_ -> _) < 1322625415 657623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1322625419 637753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do fromInteger magic there. < 1322625432 233306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) pi < 1322625433 58943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: (==): No overloading for function < 1322625437 661885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+ < 1322625451 687623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know why that doesn't work. < 1322625464 703499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv (\x -> mkDif (+3) 1 * x) (+4) pi < 1322625465 535798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1322627420 925936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing pi for (->) is const pi? < 1322627436 888543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't exactly be anything else < 1322627475 209491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322627498 276722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea why the deriv thing there invokes == < 1322627573 163262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkDif (+3) 1 < 1322627574 201366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322627574 380266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322627578 310234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkDif (+3) 1 * pi < 1322627579 467285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1322627579 646135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1322627599 684270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (Dif 3)) * x) (+4) < 1322627600 913369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Dif' < 1322627601 941897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it checks the output for some reason? < 1322627605 848773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1322627612 858946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (Dif 3 0)) * x) (+4) < 1322627614 45013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Dif' < 1322627620 688151 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> (+ (D 3 0)) * x) (+4) < 1322627621 890429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `D' < 1322627754 219526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in you Sgeo. < 1322627762 418416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in your ability to read previous lines of code. < 1322627768 602459 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mkDif < 1322627769 800921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Dif a -> Dif a < 1322627775 495067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yesssss! < 1322627778 543001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :triumph! < 1322627823 895411 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322627825 54272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322627911 583732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now we're told that coyotes don't TYPICALLY eat children" -- local CBS news < 1322628057 579817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322628082 426452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are apparently some coyotes in Atlanta's parks < 1322628086 911366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(park? I don't know) < 1322628363 387964 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update < 1322628405 387665 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of parks < 1322628428 290946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any has coyotes, i'd bet on palisades < 1322628439 658493 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a forest < 1322628564 170847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no < 1322628629 411474 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322628815 824393 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322629518 66745 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322629758 652195 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322630647 111760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented the functions: opencont, closecont, opencontT, closecontT < 1322630723 527488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1322630771 319569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencont (Barrier a c) = Barrier (a, c) opencont; closecont (Barrier (a, c) f) = Barrier a $ closecont . f . c; < 1322630797 490380 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1322630807 166780 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still has no idea what barrier monads are < 1322630812 153075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody does < 1322630817 500435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :closecont . opencont = id < 1322630851 321447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know about the generator functions (with yield) in JavaScript and in Python? Barrier monads is similar to that < 1322630861 449659 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322630873 645674 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not familiar with JS, but am familiar with Python generator functions < 1322630901 9613 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Haskell library with yield somewhere < 1322630903 871558 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the JS and Python generator functions are similar to each other < 1322631151 160980 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322631185 329846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322631390 516434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631390 695300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (++) tail . flip flip [] . ((:) .) < 1322631393 902693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631394 216683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1322631395 885979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631398 79413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631403 787278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. hoogle ty \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631404 112303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "ty" < 1322631407 610947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. hoogle type \f xs -> tail xs ++ [f xs] < 1322631408 394329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1322631408 573431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : forall a. ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631408 573521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322631415 63900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ([a] -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322631415 828159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Utils withMany :: (a -> (b -> res) -> res) -> [a] -> ([b] -> res) -> res < 1322631416 7014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases ext1Q :: (Data d, Typeable1 t) => (d -> q) -> (forall e. Data e => t e -> q) -> d -> q < 1322631703 632428 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/generator/0.5.4/doc/html/Control-Monad-Generator.html < 1322631793 530168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1322631797 182667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: isn't that just Writer < 1322631798 921870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except stupid < 1322631823 839296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is weird at times. < 1322631832 77086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Ventricaria_ventricosa.JPG That's a fucking single-celled life form. < 1322631861 17191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They typically are 1-4 centimeters in diameter. < 1322631905 48213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that Barrier is more like Python's abilities to pass in arguments to a generator? < 1322631926 584703 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, actually, even getting items out one at a time makes sense, doesn't it... no, it does not < 1322631938 39572 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except as an already existing monad < 1322631957 239525 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will laziness cause the writer monad to also pause? < 1322631969 241106 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I only ask for the log < 1322631988 365845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pause"? < 1322632013 731892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, not continuing to compute past, say, the first tell until I ask for the next item in the list < 1322632033 344633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could it compute things you didn't force < 1322632075 466552 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the other function used with the Writer monad < 1322632112 226727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In JavaScript, there is a function g.send(x) that sends x to the result of yield inside of the generator function < 1322632128 2684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Python has something similar < 1322632146 947757 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess that's what Barrier monads do? < 1322632180 203568 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Monad: and other essays upon the higher consciousness - Google Books Result" < 1322632180 382327 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322632189 606521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The sceptic erects a barrier round himself by his aggressive unbelief — a barrier which it is not worth the while of the non-physical entity to pierce ..." < 1322632215 291270 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it does that. This is the definition: data Barrier f b t = Unit t | Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t) | Fail String; yield :: f -> Barrier f b b; yield = flip Barrier Unit; < 1322632305 991844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322632318 621292 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So f is the type of values that can be passed out of the Barrier monad, and b is the type that can go into it? < 1322632376 863253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322632387 703200 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool < 1322632394 41259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it on Hackage yet? < 1322632394 683515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1322632413 979854 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. But I will put it on later. < 1322632460 806406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It vaguely reminds me of Iteratees, although Iteratees can only give one answer < 1322632466 304794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322632757 596845 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function to make it to a list is collect :: Barrier f () t -> [f] < 1322632791 281679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also reverse operation is uncollect :: [x] -> Barrier x a () < 1322632965 477131 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to envision bind < 1322632992 389688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell you how I defined it if you want that < 1322633007 975370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess if the thing on the left is a Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t), the whole thing could be of that form < 1322633061 785122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure < 1322633115 868958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unit x >>= f = f x; Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f; < 1322633180 140743 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is far more concise than I could have written at first glance. < 1322633209 953426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Fail a >>= _ = Fail a < 1322633210 332502 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322633224 523675 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322633246 596652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is instance of Alternative which is based on that. < 1322633256 458853 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322633262 352819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still a bit shaky on how Alternatives work in general < 1322633267 507844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what they're useful for < 1322633282 864930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except parsing monads, ofc, but I don't understand how parsing monads work internally either < 1322633341 292557 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They allow parser embiggenment < 1322633369 525400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be used with things other than parsers too. < 1322633413 421285 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322633502 51193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added a MonadPlus instance. However, it doesn't follow the right zero law but MonadPlus for many other monads also does not follow right zero law (but there are also many that do follow the right zero law). < 1322633521 302948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty = Fail []; Unit x <|> _ = Unit x; Fail y <|> x = annotateFail y x; Barrier a c <|> x = Barrier a $ \y -> (c y <|> x); < 1322633529 490983 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzero = empty; mplus = (<|>); < 1322633626 95851 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322633633 90315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, when you were writing Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f, did you first write that c >=> f as something else? < 1322633651 620844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I want reassurance that I don't need to catch things like that immediately < 1322633694 590215 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did first write it like that, but maybe some other people might not (I don't know) < 1322633923 788477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it should be possible to write crosstalk :: Barrier f b t1 -> Barrier b f t2 -> ([f],[b]), right? < 1322633985 15119 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what if one wants to consume more than the other? < 1322634488 990660 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have not thought of that function, but I might be able to. I suppose if one wants to consume more than the other, then you just use the shorter one < 1322635045 379428 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322635062 665062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322635327 794769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oklopol remember when you used to be stupid? j-invariant: actually i probably couldn't lecture all night, since the first nontrivial thing you usually do about CA is a theorem i actually don't know how to prove :D < 1322635328 11373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do this: crosstalk :: Barrier f b t1 -> Barrier b f t2 -> [(f, b)]; crosstalk (Barrier a1 c1) (Barrier a2 c2) = (a1, a2) : crosstalk (c1 a2) (c2 a1); crosstalk _ _ = []; < 1322635328 11562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322636075 265465 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322636496 5552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosstalkT :: (Functor m, Monad m) => BarrierT f b m t1 -> BarrierT b f m t2 -> m [(f, b)]; crosstalkT x y = liftM2 (liftA2 (,)) (runBarrierT (() <$ x)) (runBarrierT (() <$ y)) >>= either (const $ return []) (\((a1, c1), (a2, c2)) -> ((a1, a2) :) <$> crosstalkT (c1 a2) (c2 a1)); < 1322636804 92280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosstalkT x y = liftM2 (liftA2 (,)) (runBarrierT ([] <$ x)) (runBarrierT ([] <$ y)) >>= either return (\((a1, c1), (a2, c2)) -> ((a1, a2) :) <$> crosstalkT (c1 a2) (c2 a1)); < 1322637204 308969 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322637778 149552 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1322638401 42776 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle deriv < 1322638401 811132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derivation-trees < 1322638401 989917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derive < 1322638401 990090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package derive-gadt < 1322638412 313417 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, mu-eval doesn't have those. < 1322638419 269860 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322638420 451183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322638426 705434 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322638427 546667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Dif < 1322638427 725656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases ext1T :: (Data d, Typeable1 t) => (forall e. Data e => e -> e) -> (forall f. Data f => t f -> t f) -> d -> d < 1322638669 710478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: i found the package earlier < 1322638746 331733 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you actually added it to lambdabot? < 1322638755 601772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1322638774 857169 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src deriv < 1322638775 389031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1322638796 198982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also how does AD work in languages like C where there's no operator overloading. < 1322638803 679457 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it could be used to differentiate C functions and the like. < 1322638809 112376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :external tools < 1322638818 223040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ they do horrible template hacks < 1322638899 165556 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1322638909 495058 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you do anything complex in C++ < 1322638983 628153 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it require the C source? < 1322638987 276724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1322639080 800771 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who knows it could do some machine code hacks. < 1322639137 763415 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so if you didn't add ad to lambdabot how is it there? < 1322639145 60258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot imports a fuckton of shit < 1322639152 614257 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1322639165 252312 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I guess mu-eval hasn't caught up or doesn't use the same imports. < 1322639170 282166 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very picky about its imports. < 1322639440 555146 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the package that defines deriv? < 1322639487 775144 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried ad, fad, rad, and Data.Ring.Module.AutomaticDifferentiation but I don't think it's the same one < 1322639502 436702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: stop attributing these things to mueval < 1322639504 419362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is L.hs alone < 1322639572 577392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I wish this glib queue had the property I want < 1322639610 198739 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: L.hs? < 1322639617 966072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: see lambdabot sourec < 1322639844 887914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lists encode an at-most: < 1322639848 663696 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Number.Dif is commented out from the mueval source. :( < 1322639852 457599 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] fits the type [a], [[a]], etc. < 1322639863 444287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: mueval is irrelevant < 1322639876 612313 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...to? < 1322639877 169243 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to encode at-least? < 1322639883 996690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: the lambdabot imports < 1322639888 708471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't have any idea what you are talking about < 1322639890 317931 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's certainly relevant to what I'm talking about. < 1322639894 535267 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not lambdabot < 1322639896 209652 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mueval < 1322639908 369166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322639924 510870 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I mean, clearly lambdabot imports it. < 1322639927 924586 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't the issue. :P < 1322639935 632506 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] fits the type [[[a]]], as do [[]] and [[[]]] and [[[[]]]] but [[[[[]]]]] does not < 1322639977 776362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Typeclasses could be used to clean up that a, but I need to go to sleep soon) < 1322639996 101333 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [[[a]]] means "Accept at most [[[[]]]] but no numbers larger than that" < 1322640015 644605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Treating these nested lists as numbers) < 1322640034 121079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to sleep now, I have an exam tomorrow < 1322640113 748941 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'd wonder if tuples are a better bet, but there are no one-element tuples < 1322640122 48561 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and also, it wouldn't work, so n/m < 1322640160 664157 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-tuples are a completely pointless thing. < 1322640169 185991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this sucks < 1322640195 858235 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except newtypes I guess. newtypes are kind of like 1-tuples I guess. < 1322640213 569361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point here is the nesting, though < 1322640250 367712 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (Just (Just Nothing ) ) zomg < 1322640317 491589 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works just as well (or better), but which is easier to type? < 1322640327 648851 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Nothing :: Maybe ( Maybe ( Maybe a ) ) < 1322640328 862389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1322640376 461455 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm curious about is if it's possible to encode at-least < 1322640380 64083 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which is less broken. (not completely unbroken, but less broken at least) < 1322640397 279442 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does that even mean. < 1322640406 458849 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I read the explanation above; still confused) < 1322640412 983008 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Values of a certain "value" or greater, as specified in the type, pass the type < 1322640416 460642 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, what are you doing. < 1322640434 672919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I currently have is values of a certain "value", or less, as specified in the type, pass the type < 1322640441 685108 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [] represents 0, for instance < 1322640456 598823 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And passes [a], [[a]], [[[a]]], etc < 1322640459 506472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Deewiant: I need a C language lawyer, ping < 1322640465 368212 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong < 1322640483 428652 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas [[]] represents 1 and passes ... erm, [a], [[a]], [[[a]]]. Let's say that [[]] is 0 < 1322640494 478657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[]]] passes.... ok, bluh < 1322640496 469374 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need a real lawyer; I may actually kill Sgeo. < 1322640499 501580 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start this again < 1322640501 618962 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [[]] doesn't pass [a] < 1322640509 544644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does C99 give enough guaranteed on accesses to a global volatile bool so that {x = false;} and {x = true;} are atomic with respect to "if (x)" < 1322640520 519362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] doesn't fit the oh so heavy burden imposed by a? < 1322640528 757911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. can I assume it works like an atomic shared bit for setting and testing < 1322640536 679142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Setting to constants) < 1322640558 333377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At sequence points, volatile objects are stable in the sense that previous accesses are complete and subsequent accesses have not yet occurred." < 1322640569 201967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say that [] is 0. It passes [()], [[()]], [[[()]]], etc. < 1322640581 681823 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [[]] :: [a] < 1322640582 904067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a1' against inferred type `[a]' < 1322640583 82726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `a1' is a ... < 1322640593 430311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: You can pass [[]] to a function expecting [a] < 1322640597 195450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is I think Sgeo's point < 1322640605 531079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Alright. I still feel bad about using it. < 1322640613 950728 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[]] 1, by contrast, does not fit [()], but does fit [[()]], [[[()]]], etc. < 1322640641 775776 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let id :: [a] -> [a]; id x = x in id [[]] < 1322640643 56385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[]] < 1322640650 204184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (I was hoping to eliminate the global volatile variable world_running from mcmap, but GLib doesn't offer something as simple as "a queue that you can disown so that pushes just do nothing" (or equivalent).) < 1322640660 843770 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, So, [[]] 1 is not at-most [()] 0 < 1322640668 942963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (So removing world_running would cause every received world-relevant packet to leak memory in the queue.) < 1322640669 122001 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322640669 918684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The former is the value, the latter is the type) < 1322640671 876064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If the world's stopped.) < 1322640697 170709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, [()] in the type means at-most 0. [[()]] in the type means at-most 1. etc. < 1322640710 894454 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't you clear the queue at some later time? < 1322640720 672160 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still pondering potential usages of this, but I also have to wonder if there's a way to encode at-least. < 1322640721 866124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Clear it howso < 1322640731 492650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The point is that after the world thread ends, nobody is popping the queue < 1322640735 420375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the proxy thread is still pushing < 1322640747 571638 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does this matter < 1322640767 231805 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world thread sounds like something important (note: I have no idea what the threads are for) < 1322640784 270840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, is anything I'm saying making sense? < 1322640795 534034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When the world thread crashes in a predictable manner :) < 1322640812 802554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fizzie thought it important that the proxy continue to function even if the map and commands break < 1322640822 331668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And you want to keep the program running after this? < 1322640827 360585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("chunk update decompression: inflateInit: %s", zError(err)); < 1322640827 539684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("chunk update decompression: inflate: %s", zError(err)); < 1322640827 539849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("broken decompressed chunk length: %d != %d and < %d", < 1322640827 539950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: stopf("too high chunk update: %d..%d", y0, y0+ys-1); < 1322640833 292440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it happens when chunk updates are fucked < 1322640842 693163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it already does < 1322640849 599246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haven't Mojang fixed them? < 1322640858 649282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It works fine without even world_running, it just leaks memory < 1322640873 616177 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um... I guess. < 1322640877 4201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd rather remove stop entirely or make it not leak memory and not use a volatile global < 1322640880 954982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. I don't know why you're doing that. < 1322640882 437418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to achieve the latter < 1322640887 375213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, BECAUSE I CAN < 1322640888 978621 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What exactly works fine, what does the world thread do :-P < 1322640897 831757 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also: Note: Practical usages still to be determined) < 1322640901 661058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Processes incoming world-relevant packets < 1322640908 431184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Map chunk updates, entity position updates, chat messages < 1322640919 558726 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DUDE EITHER ENCODES LIKE..... LINKED LISTS < 1322640921 376388 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, so, what exactly is still happening without the world thread < 1322640923 632929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Basically the world thread handles everything that isn't part of mcmap's fun ol' proxying/console regime < 1322640925 424031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Proxying < 1322640928 244739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proxying and the console < 1322640934 339378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: iirc it handles tracking of the world, for map display purposes and so on. Basically everything that isn't just "pass on to client/server" < 1322640935 12559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The map just freezes < 1322640945 286321 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, hmh < 1322640950 642688 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Either Int (Either Bool (Either (IO Awesome) ())) < 1322640955 748464 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuuude think of the implications < 1322640964 741216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The world thread is separate because fizzie thinks processing world packets might be slow; in reality the threading overhead almost certainly dwarfs it, but that's a battle for another day) < 1322640972 276902 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1322640983 679405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I get the feeling that a volatile global is The Way to do this, and if I want to avoid them I should use a super-high-level concurrency library < 1322640994 217967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than glib's "here's some thread-starting functions... and a mutex... and a queue". < 1322640999 815152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have fun with that." < 1322641003 23925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322641010 159120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Heck, glib even has some operations on volatile pointers to lock bits atomically.) < 1322641029 350777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so are the glib threads any better than pure pthreads? Apart from portability concerns that is. < 1322641062 229118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they have a bit more than just mutexes; run-once sections, conditions, and the aforementioned queues < 1322641068 947894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe pthreads has queues, I dunno < 1322641070 995937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But portability is nice < 1322641082 514277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also read-write locks < 1322641084 332112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice too < 1322641088 775921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know pthreads have condition variables. No idea about run-once sections. < 1322641105 515898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ~RECURSIVE MUTEXES~ < 1322641112 466935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads have that < 1322641125 834140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pthread_rwlock_init < 1322641136 158383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm wondering why I don't just make stopf situations drop the current packet < 1322641141 677853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The network protocol is synchronised at that point anyway < 1322641145 830842 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adjective: < 1322641147 76720 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of words or the person speaking them) Fluent and voluble but insincere and shallow. < 1322641155 30788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... I'm gonna do that < 1322641162 521635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm... won't that fuck up for the client? < 1322641175 691166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This happens after it's forwarded to the client < 1322641178 822326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322641186 237028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Notchian client just sort of magically makes sense of any data you throw at it < 1322641197 18976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: might want to rename it from stopf to something else then < 1322641212 39016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? I guess you should look at mcp stuff to figure out what you are missing then < 1322641215 315968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not going to modify the macro to insert a return :-P < 1322641221 398412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it mostly just ignores things < 1322641224 462646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322641229 511429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we ever actually get these stopf errors these days < 1322641237 583915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's life, or some such < 1322641246 972906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322641251 64596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(university) < 1322641260 576925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like unicrappity < 1322641291 234439 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1322641294 606279 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(christmas carols) < 1322641319 477505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My delightful new prefix for these "zlib fucked up" errors is [WHAT] < 1322641746 194091 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/article_16508_6-terrifying-things-they-dont-tell-you-about-childbirth.html < 1322641751 474058 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm on this part of the internet again. < 1322642130 267724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any proper name for this? data T a b = T b ((T a b -> a) -> a); What is its meaning? < 1322642333 94569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322642371 715620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can you please shoot whoever made gcc too stupid to realise that if (...) { x = y; } else if (...) { x = z; } else call_noreturn_function() cannot leave x uninitialised < 1322642402 961938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot! < 1322642403 140582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322642464 113603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, but what if somebody else provides a call_noreturn_function() that actually returns < 1322642477 853928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT'S __ATTRIBUTE__((NORETURN)) < 1322642478 860145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE HEADER < 1322642493 981584 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do those __attribute__s actually have to match? < 1322642495 528950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot whoever made you use -Werror < 1322642496 511042 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure) < 1322642517 504088 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has just now watched double rainbow. < 1322642522 248625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't define it with that attribute in the .c file since it includes the relevant header :-P < 1322642530 516614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: fizzie < 1322642548 577838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: But I'm kinda warning-phobic anyway, it only takes about four warnings to make me start ignoring any fifth warning that might pop up < 1322642550 114772 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyway, what if you explicitly return thereafter < 1322642552 318388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322642577 900327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Doesn't work (thank god) < 1322642587 108031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it's complaining about < 1322642594 959358 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the zero-one-infinity rule. Fix all warnings, or fix the first warning, or ignore all warnings < 1322642595 820607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just complaining because I declare them without initialising them RIGHT THERE... < 1322642611 920859 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is easy anyway, you can initialize almost anything with 0 < 1322642616 995335 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be thankful you're not in C++ < 1322642635 814019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bGIN ;; COME ON LET ME APPLY THIS < 1322642643 925279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Nope, socket_t must be used abstractly here < 1322642647 69077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Could be a struct < 1322642657 626467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: On Windows it's a "SOCKET", whatever that is < 1322642680 317971 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shout, for one thing < 1322642706 350072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW once I get around to pushing this stuff could you test the Windows build, I think it should even be working < 1322642781 377041 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I'm next in Windows after that, sure < 1322643900 96317 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo for abbreviating Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory -----### < 1322643900 342510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322643957 643361 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ZipList < 1322643958 820616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> ZipList a < 1322644468 917887 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9]] < 1322644470 585673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644478 911897 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) [] < 1322644480 526267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1322644708 976227 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\setbox0=\hbox{\write16{\csname zzz\endcsname}}\show\zzz\shipout\box0\show\zzz < 1322644760 202632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that it? < 1322644763 134251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Language lawyer time < 1322644771 646258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is it OK to define a function in a header and then never talk about it again and then link the program < 1322644773 136420 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a small part < 1322644790 519682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Define, not declare? < 1322644794 673235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, declare < 1322644811 790660 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course < 1322644869 232133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gross < 1322644872 262048 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1322644894 946982 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((drop 1 .) . (:)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644895 761765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644900 24132 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the alternative would be macro hacks. < 1322644901 300372 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322644905 722504 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: math.h can be used without linking libm, you know :-P < 1322644929 997707 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (:)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644930 583758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BUT STILL < 1322644930 817621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644935 512484 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1322644945 653465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (:)) < 1322644946 467528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1322644946 649348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [a] < 1322644946 649525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: [[a]] < 1322644949 354084 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty (. drop 1) . (:) < 1322644950 510309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> [a] -> [a] < 1322644955 386653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty scanr1 < 1322644956 667887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> [a] < 1322644964 277314 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322644980 744947 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty scanr < 1322644981 993945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> [b] < 1322644986 620462 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr ((. drop 1) . (:)) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322644988 584123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[1,2,3]],[[4,5]],[[6,7]],[]] < 1322645000 580936 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr ((drop 1 .) . (:)) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645002 250950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[],[],[]] < 1322645010 921036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1322645035 261328 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((. drop 1) . (++)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645036 956754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,5,7],[4,5,7],[6,7]] < 1322645043 275325 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 ((drop 1 .) . (++)) [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645045 155852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[2,3,5,6,7],[5,6,7],[6,7]] < 1322645059 274379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Deewiant for disturbing him < 1322645065 555072 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -----### < 1322645076 324717 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're you trying to do :-P < 1322645086 614807 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList join < 1322645140 824886 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (. ?f) . (:) < 1322645141 640455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (?f::f [a], Functor f) => a -> f [a] < 1322645141 820114 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I made a join function for ZipList < 1322645179 786148 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Prelude.. ?f) Prelude.. (:) < 1322645180 613513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (?f::a -> [a1]) => a1 -> a -> [a1] < 1322645201 785460 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1322645209 659607 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless is pointless today < 1322645233 409115 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: complete double rainbow all the way. < 1322645241 563395 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645242 537712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => [[[a]]] < 1322645247 108377 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645247 942119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[1,2,3],[5],[]],[[4,5],[7]],[[6,7]],[]] < 1322645254 809214 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322645259 550953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7]] < 1322645260 358380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3],[5],[]] < 1322645357 780856 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let join = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in join < 1322645358 603381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ZipList [a] -> ZipList a < 1322645364 707173 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322645381 777668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let join = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in join < 1322645382 644224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ZipList (ZipList a) -> ZipList a < 1322645403 38020 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] in zjoin < 1322645403 532204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error: in < 1322645409 164469 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] < 1322645410 386654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322645417 79136 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ze join < 1322645445 939652 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> getZipList . zjoin . ZipList . map ZipList $ [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9]] < 1322645447 584474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,5] < 1322645457 895881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1322645458 648402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what are the monad laws stated with join... < 1322645459 730344 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1322645495 244092 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a cold so i'm not sure i can get all that < 1322645509 989674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't join (return m) = m one of them? < 1322645520 816136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just writing that. < 1322645523 407855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: assuredly < 1322645547 63091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and return (join m) = m, presumably? < 1322645563 990036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that doesn't look reversible < 1322645589 379712 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also join (return m) = m needs to be well typed < 1322645614 681121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (fmap g (join (fmap f m))) = join (fmap (join . fmap g . f) m) < 1322645620 392055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the long one < 1322645622 18682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated directly < 1322645624 324717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uh < 1322645625 379240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite ugly < 1322645626 951250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff like that < 1322645630 575323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well < 1322645633 219080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join x = join y < 1322645634 821901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be reduced to < 1322645635 783820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = y < 1322645636 610570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1322645637 417848 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely there must be some blog that has them < 1322645650 596059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap g (join (fmap f m)) = fmap (join . fmap g . f) m < 1322645654 382624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surely we can lift that join outwards... < 1322645662 442639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok < 1322645665 782873 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: join is not a reversible operation, i said < 1322645677 799919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The standard monad laws. < 1322645677 980189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . return == id < 1322645678 161379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . fmap return == id < 1322645678 161458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . join == join . fmap join < 1322645683 70500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ones, apparently < 1322645692 299778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those seem... strangely short < 1322645697 704104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess associativity is a detail of (>>=) itself < 1322645702 810377 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join [[1]] == join [[],[1]] < 1322645703 633482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322645710 280412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also the laws of fmap itself as a Functor, of course < 1322645719 971882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but we know those are OK < 1322645722 466820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're only introducing Monad < 1322645734 605274 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap, like batman, has only one rule. < 1322645753 66796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: two, actually < 1322645754 418766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ZipList return < 1322645754 604814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen. < 1322645758 568689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grr* < 1322645789 389363 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiro[3[[3452#$[323523[62[45#${^347[2246}$%&4[646}#$%[34]3[4534[3[$)%%_3# < 1322645867 802400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain was _just_ too fried to get \x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs into point-free form, so the monad laws are obviously beyond reach. < 1322645869 425471 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ZipList has similar to (Natural ->) monad (that is, assuming a type for any natural numbers!) < 1322645882 455418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that ZipList can be finite < 1322645886 896136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm working on proving these btw < 1322645927 638185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm would you call map getZipList (repeat m) = repeat (getZipList m) a distributive property < 1322645928 775264 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foldr (.) id . map fmap == fmap . foldr (.) id < 1322645954 636297 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it's the finiteness that makes it complicated. in particular if the sublists are not sorted by length, monad laws break without the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) adjustment. i _hope_ that's enough. < 1322645982 619078 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0P_btTkUgg < 1322645988 169836 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: the problem isn't me understanding it in general, it's understanding it when i have a cold < 1322645996 858627 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shit was off the chain wicked bananas. < 1322646000 394758 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, my rule doesn't type in Haskell < 1322646034 325591 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to include the actual function mapped over < 1322646061 535673 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to make it pointfree < 1322646078 909547 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: oh that's your formulation of the functor laws as one equation? < 1322646091 843559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 f (repeat x) < 1322646092 680893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x,f x x,f (f x x) x,f (f (f x x) x) x,f (f (f (f x x) x) x) x,f (f (f (f (... < 1322646108 515694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-kay < 1322646122 165626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: proof of first law is currently at " ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . repeat $ getZipList m" btw < 1322646129 201991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1322646129 854902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what this is? data T a b = T b ((T a b -> a) -> a); I don't know what this is? < 1322646130 586017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very far :P < 1322646142 665239 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one law that says a functor is a group homeomorphism or something < 1322646155 212606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw what would you call \x xs -> x : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646156 607739 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might want to understand join on a more intuitive level first? < 1322646160 233573 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly in Haskell they must be written as two laws < 1322646171 952120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it in its own definition to keep my columns sane :P < 1322646176 612582 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cobarrier monads < 1322646185 347337 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :barrier comonads? < 1322646188 437645 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobarrier comonads? < 1322646188 743866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha! as if I could apply _intuition_ to a problem like this < 1322646222 428840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't zipWith (flip const) = flip (zipWith const) < 1322646223 356448 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I understand join on an intuitive level. does that mean I can prove everything? < 1322646246 364409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (flip const) x x < 1322646247 192471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1322646247 371837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `SimpleRef... < 1322646253 662641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \xs -> zipWith (flip const) xs xs == xs < 1322646254 780071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "OK, passed 500 tests." < 1322646258 505723 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hoo hoo hoo < 1322646262 502672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Actually I don't know what it is. < 1322646298 413403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: btw what would you call \x xs -> x : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646303 879664 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322646312 67157 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a cobarrier monad.. < 1322646312 247178 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the intuition is to take the diagonal of a matrix, but with the restriction that not just the diagonal elements but all elements above and to the left must also exist < 1322646325 136778 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (it's probabky not) < 1322646339 691583 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shear? < 1322646343 349176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1322646361 159392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (repeat x) < 1322646362 285429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (f x (... < 1322646395 698718 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: astonishing < 1322646402 479944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1322646410 671800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: I think it isn't, but I don't know. But I think it is a functor fmap f (T x y) = T (f x) $ \z -> y (z . fmap f); < 1322646416 582691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now at the point ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . fix . shear $ getZipList m :P < 1322646423 142631 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: well you also have to understand _proofs_, i guess < 1322646437 78052 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure I get proofs. < 1322646445 193669 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, then there's hope. < 1322646451 416365 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with X, you do shit until it's Y. QED < 1322646478 696587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . fix $ \xs -> getZipList m : map (drop 1) xs < 1322646482 585801 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: i assume you're being sarcastic < 1322646487 491900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like we're getting somewhere < 1322646493 215092 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that's one way to write proofs isn't it? < 1322646515 227183 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: yes, but it's so vague it would apply to the work of most crackpots. < 1322646532 628814 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't really describe proof by contradiction or induction very well. < 1322646573 272376 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet there are proof techniques I've never even /heard/ of!! < 1322646584 658394 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof by crackpots < 1322646601 444131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm is map f $ fix (\xs -> x : map g xs) ==> fix (\xs -> f x : map g xs) valid < 1322646603 475190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1322646620 580336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1322646631 856541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not very good at proofs in general but I could prove some things by myself, including Pythagorean theorem, and that the sequence of repeated run length encoding starting with 1 (1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, etc) has only 1,2,3 and has no "333" in it < 1322646633 55924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f $ fix (\xs -> x : map g xs) ==> fix (\xs -> f x : map (f . g) xs) < 1322646634 772178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is, though, I think < 1322646639 463897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(validate me oerjan? is this correct) < 1322646656 329472 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a cold, i say. < 1322646660 832380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map f (fix (\xs -> x : map g xs)) :: [Expr] < 1322646661 11287 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't look right to me. < 1322646661 598581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [f x,f (g x),f (g (g x)),f (g (g (g x))),f (g (g (g (g x)))),f (g (g (g (g ... < 1322646670 537185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> f x : map (f . g) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646671 376399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322646671 555725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... < 1322646680 74545 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait < 1322646680 942616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646681 189513 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322646681 628427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1322646681 812557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show t' < 1322646681 991551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322646684 285372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! < 1322646689 986569 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks right to me. < 1322646692 999719 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misreaed. < 1322646697 799526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: shut up and let me get lambdabot to take it :) < 1322646710 721341 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix $ ([0,1]++) . map succ . concatMap ((:) <$> length <*> pure.head). group < 1322646711 864408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is _not_ valid actually. < 1322646712 389098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,1,2,2,2,3,2,2,4,3,2,4,3,3,2,5,2,4,2,3,2,5,3,4,2,3,2,6,2,3,2,5,2,3,2,... < 1322646719 760524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) :: [Expr] < 1322646720 578255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1322646720 820075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Show t' arising from a use of `f' at :1:29-35 < 1322646720 998860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr t' < 1322646720 998939 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322646721 331940 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322646722 580941 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322646723 802291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (\xs -> f x : map (\x -> f (g x)) xs) < 1322646724 688262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a t. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a, SimpleReflect.FromExpr (a -> t), SimpleReflect.FromExpr (t -> a)) => [a] < 1322646724 873290 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not. < 1322646730 815980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1322646789 56845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let m = [1,2,3,4] in fix (\xs -> m : map (drop 1) xs) < 1322646789 881228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646793 95088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equatorial coordinates have right ascension and declination, or hour angle and declination, but is it sense to have local declination too? < 1322646798 321290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> inits [1,2,3,4] < 1322646799 138522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[1],[1,2],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4]] < 1322646803 530768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tails [1,2,3,4] < 1322646804 432246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[]] < 1322646807 145687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat [] < 1322646808 874979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646825 910577 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with map f on the outside f only gets applied once to each element < 1322646829 313689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I nkow < 1322646830 313104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1322646836 260289 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the inside it gets applied... um, a lot. < 1322646839 584160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh < 1322646840 562008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh < 1322646876 753742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (take 1) (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646878 197553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646894 365231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pure [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat [] < 1322646895 995918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3],[4],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[],[... < 1322646907 596210 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . map $ (take 1) (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646908 654831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a1] -> a' < 1322646908 833920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a]' < 1322646918 296450 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . map (take 1) $ (tails [1,2,3,4] ++ repeat []) < 1322646922 430244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322646937 793673 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone submit a bug report for me. < 1322646955 849124 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :titled "halting problem not solved" < 1322646963 802087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ZipList . concat . takeWhile (not . null) $ map (:[]) (getZipList m) < 1322646972 90167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like it's working < 1322646974 413152 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is solved < 1322646980 371494 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :See NonTerminationException < 1322646993 296149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (oerjan is sceptical that there are any Haskell ADTs that can be made applicative functors that can't be made monads (with the two instances agreeing)) < 1322646996 723291 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say that. < 1322647001 840523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i clarified later, but ok < 1322647052 999022 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm, I've run out of fractals. perhaps I need a new updoot theme? < 1322647062 95297 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: CANTFIX < 1322647074 156671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: behold the most handwavey thing _ever_ written: http://sprunge.us/hfGR < 1322647082 329015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least my steps are trivial enough to justify, I'm just too lazy to < 1322647096 260172 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a type of function, that if you have this function and pure and <*> then you can make join. Is there such a thing? < 1322647103 73785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: join < 1322647107 352542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called join. < 1322647136 486855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, but it isn't what I meant < 1322647166 116041 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pick a theme for me < 1322647208 494777 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I'll try to find more fractals I guess. < 1322647212 583793 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pure m is what i call a "rectangular" element, so zjoin really cannot break on it - it essentially doesn't go outside the _Applicative_ part. < 1322647221 364650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1322647254 896807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the join . fmap return one is going well: ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map repeat $ getZipList m < 1322647272 96155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, on a rectangular element, join is determined entirely by the Applicative functions. < 1322647280 911272 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upoundary of the tame deetdragon < 1322647284 125383 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one is also rectangular. < 1322647304 11923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I am sure that zjoin works fine in the theory you have used to create it :P < 1322647313 60135 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322647335 928893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) $ map repeat [a,b,c] < 1322647337 623142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a... < 1322647339 473882 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for rectangular elements, the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) part does nothing. < 1322647342 136273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) $ map repeat [a,b,c] < 1322647343 802857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b... < 1322647347 972771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1322647386 320676 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322647391 769128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map repeat [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647392 664533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f [a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,... < 1322647400 878257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map pure [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647401 715614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f SimpleReflect.Expr)) < 1322647401 901017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1322647403 167174 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322647407 20220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr f z (map (:[]) [a,b,c,d]) < 1322647407 984623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f [a] (f [b] (f [c] (f [d] z))) < 1322647412 380418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not immensely surprising :P < 1322647445 443626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1322647451 166479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z . map g = foldr (f . g) z < 1322647452 527415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll help < 1322647470 287168 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha broccoli has a measure Hausdorff dimension of 2.66 < 1322647471 853927 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1322647481 86359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*measured < 1322647579 952249 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a measure dimension, sort of. < 1322647605 793814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the dimension of sets that may have nontrivial hausdorff measure of that degree < 1322647620 58545 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(degree may not be actual term) < 1322647671 25238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: join . fmap return = id proved < 1322647677 940971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . join = join . fmap join -- this seems like the hard one < 1322647695 96029 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oerjan: Norway is more Hausdorffy than Great Britain. Fight. < 1322647748 68609 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently dimension is the term used) < 1322647766 339187 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1322647771 134540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: why should i fight, it's obviously true < 1322647812 51056 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah that's the one where you have to test non-"rectangular" sets, so the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) part becomes important < 1322647821 963645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . getZipList $ m < 1322647822 143389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList . join) $ getZipList m < 1322647826 114799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have to prove these two lines equal < 1322647827 575979 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because you guys should take mathematics /personally/ < 1322647828 585627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml :P < 1322647836 86171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322647844 116431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . getZipList $ m < 1322647847 214150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList . map join $ getZipList m < 1322647859 85818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually < 1322647860 650717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need to prove < 1322647861 245264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map getZipList < 1322647862 820846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := map join < 1322647864 761052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322647873 654660 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, maybe elliott secretly thinks having a lower Hausdorff dimensions is better for a high quality nation. < 1322647898 214423 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and on ZipLists "rectangular" elements obviously are what you intuitively call rectangles, it's just that it applies more generally to any attempt to extend Applicatives to Monads, i believe. < 1322647941 615083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what is it you actually believe about Applicative then < 1322647962 707734 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION believes Applicative created the world and made it flat. < 1322647984 7399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/XfUi; too lazy to do the last proof for now < 1322647986 131510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1322647989 969653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one involving any kind of thought at all < 1322648011 251700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you checked whether this monad's ap and liftM agree? < 1322648084 828324 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be rather astounding, since they don't have the same type ;P < 1322648154 748194 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: well lower hausdorff dimension probably gives easier industrial packaging. < 1322648160 271219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: har har har < 1322648163 946282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the Applicative instance I mean of course < 1322648223 666849 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Peano curve packs pretty well < 1322648223 892854 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the zjoin is _designed_ to be correct on rectangular elements automatically, and all elements that are actually joined when constructing ap and liftM stuff are rectangular. < 1322648298 975668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i meant tested empirically :P < 1322648306 961868 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :P < 1322648388 402157 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (\x -> fmap (f x) m) n is the general form of a rectangular element in an arbitrary Functor. < 1322648503 153875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't suppose you know how to get backtraces for individual threads in gdb after they all exit < 1322648503 681982 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :empiricism in math? zah1 < 1322648505 567055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying join to that should give liftM2 f n m, so it's determined by the Applicative part. < 1322648520 524348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, printf all the way < 1322648535 155165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :( < 1322648624 662528 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, you might want to prove zjoin (fmap (\x -> fmap (f x) m) n) = liftA2f n m as a lemma to use. < 1322648634 8552 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*liftA2 f n m < 1322648642 252864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. when i get back to it :P < 1322648681 761566 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense it is the initial definition of zjoin, which is then extended in some hopefully consistent way to all elements. < 1322648725 681610 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from it should follow that everything Applicative behaves correctly with it. < 1322648850 553373 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the first and second monad laws. it's just the third one which can still break. < 1322648853 661205 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair. < 1322648981 277018 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322649086 982447 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw my intuitive but maybe not sufficiently checked reason for why the scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) adjustment should fix the join . join == join . fmap join third law formulation is that it forces the necessary _cubic_ parts of the m (m (m x)) element to exist. < 1322649094 987177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322649103 458560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should publish this >:) < 1322649110 894082 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa < 1322649150 533546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional Pearl: Categorical Gardening: Applicative Functors to Monads with Shears and Cubes < 1322649217 943734 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, an element is included in join (join m) iff its entire ancestor "cube" is included, which should be the same as the requirement for an element in join (fmap join m) to be included. < 1322649277 688426 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gregor has a paper called "The Eval that Men Do" < 1322649284 972833 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me cringe < 1322649287 989415 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime I read it. < 1322649316 562845 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "cube" being the elements that are above and to the left of it in any of the containing sublists, seen as a 3-dimensional grid) < 1322649360 209236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: we named that < 1322649388 722165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that "shear" was a bit of a joke, it just looks like a geometric shear transformation in how it moves list elements. < 1322649424 113637 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who's "we"? < 1322649456 628573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: #esoteric < 1322649475 621530 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Gregor has a paper called "The Eval that Men Do" <-- i recall that, i vaguely think he asked us for more eval suggestions :P < 1322649597 282031 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Root of All Eval is an obvious one. < 1322649611 367520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, we covered all the bases. < 1322649616 326751 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it was m... right < 1322649628 842910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god this paper is amazing. < 1322649629 822932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your eval bases are belong to us < 1322649645 667565 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Eval that Men Do" is better because it's still a horrible pun while also being relevant to the paper. < 1322649663 478861 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas "The Root of All Eval" is less relevant < 1322649669 111252 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1322649669 466020 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're talking about like.... trees or something. < 1322650252 436198 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood < 1322650327 662476 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1322650889 680472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Encapsulate world queue into an abstract interface" < 1322650896 83092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta think of a way to make this commit subject less terrible < 1322651137 132656 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Inact the principle of information hiding on world queue by means of implementing an abstract protocol." < 1322651145 519425 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/"/ < 1322651147 394151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322651951 504542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322652480 981354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322652986 611217 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322653202 103156 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322653254 412659 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322655339 331239 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322655339 510244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322656348 220537 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322656500 275580 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656500 457431 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322656500 457584 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656644 340701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322656662 414117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656766 226239 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322656895 399039 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322657003 327202 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322657607 104402 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1322658048 781054 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you could try dumbing it down < 1322658115 881984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I maed an abstract interface out of teh world queue." < 1322658300 467453 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322658972 684302 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322659228 783457 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322660208 508195 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322660267 269208 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322660741 767533 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 + 2 < 1322660742 889038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322660844 912157 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tau < 1322660845 949165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `tau' < 1322660926 620580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0/0) == (0/0) < 1322660927 654848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322661144 767661 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time < 1322661148 667830 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two monitors once again. < 1322662567 178332 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322662609 405489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322662697 600664 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hi < 1322662703 954782 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322663159 945031 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Coke and coffee mixed together is good < 1322663384 595446 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi :: Expr < 1322663385 872824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : pi < 1322663390 249737 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin pi < 1322663391 588549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0 < 1322663397 843056 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322663399 9399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos pi < 1322663442 677838 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: using Expr with deriv is actually very cool. < 1322663449 906294 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, when it works :P < 1322663460 637644 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what breaks, in particular? < 1322663520 43662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, sorry. < 1322663568 855069 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: noooooo, how could you. < 1322663593 803677 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have abstracted you from "human being" to "limitless and impatient well of information" < 1322663605 638614 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're breaking my encapsulation! < 1322663807 454763 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> a * sin a * ln a * a^2 + 1) (x :: Expr) < 1322663808 504674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `ln' < 1322663812 699348 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> a * sin a * log a * a^2 + 1) (x :: Expr) < 1322663814 216370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((1 * sin x + x * (1 * cos x)) * log x + x * sin x * (1 * recip x)) * (x * ... < 1322663862 362245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why must it have 1 * everywhere? < 1322663866 699775 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a waste! < 1322663902 661500 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Expr could special case 1 so that it's omitted, however, I think it's left in for demonstration of function implementations. < 1322663936 877149 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to have different Expr "styles", one that attempts to reduce expressions and one that's verbatim < 1322664047 285010 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, also < 1322664083 407683 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably also extend Expr to generate ASTs? < 1322664243 200580 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be < 1322664243 414263 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got < 1322664245 340380 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :minix." < 1322664259 759565 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Linux Torvalds, 1991 < 1322664265 964653 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322664267 558184 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Linux < 1322664270 360265 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to correct it. < 1322664383 712565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess Expr could special case 1 so that it's omitted, however, I think it's left in for demonstration of function implementations. < 1322664389 598612 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664390 682131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * (-1.0) < 1322664395 555893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322664404 244605 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exprValue $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664404 820181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `exprValue' < 1322664407 341145 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1322664438 335014 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reduce < 1322664439 648105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr < 1322664442 524277 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Expr -> a < 1322664443 95369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Expr < 1322664443 574238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1322664443 761385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1322664447 143201 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1322664449 793836 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid hoogle < 1322664450 200293 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> intExpr $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664451 17434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `intExpr' < 1322664453 329425 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> doubleExpr $ deriv sin (pi :: Expr) < 1322664454 151965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `doubleExpr' < 1322664456 18074 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1322664489 793359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, does Num make any assumptions about whether or not it's a field? < 1322664511 71333 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromIntegral < 1322664512 100058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322664524 668201 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, is it required that fromIntegral 1 * x == x ? < 1322664568 121843 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num has no laws < 1322664573 709331 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1322664583 919282 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote without laws < 1322664584 100253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1322664587 939664 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott laws < 1322664588 126192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1322664590 686853 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott_ laws < 1322664591 43303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1322664593 141777 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote elliott type < 1322664593 328438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says: a typeclass is nothing without semantics < 1322664595 484380 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote fuck < 1322664595 748190 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1322664596 76609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :medfly says: THIS IS SPARTA! go fuck yourself < 1322664600 441669 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misremrembered myself'e'. :'( < 1322664616 112985 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Google just understood "ahaskel wekly naws". < 1322664649 377578 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it does. < 1322664660 377189 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S LIKE THEY DO SOME KIND OF LEVENWEEJRIJSJW DISTANCE < 1322664669 50175 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=LEVENWEEJRIJSJW+DISTANCE < 1322664681 886252 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas < 1322664704 177086 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEVENstEW DISTANCE < 1322664705 93949 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1322664722 302549 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leven stew < 1322664761 206942 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help sleep deprivation and weird blood pressure drops. < 1322664986 347846 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: help me find ways to break deriv < 1322665001 695124 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t logBase < 1322665002 958917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a -> a < 1322665092 981753 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how is differentiation implemented in mathematica? < 1322665101 924506 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolically and badly < 1322665117 626267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322665129 140650 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . isInfinity $ x) 3 < 1322665130 343303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `isInfinity' < 1322665139 683156 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . isNegativeZero $ x) 3 < 1322665140 891681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665141 78918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665150 533098 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum . x == 2) 3 < 1322665151 906568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665152 86875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665152 993359 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322665158 777441 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromEnum (x == 2)) 3 < 1322665159 927627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322665160 113664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322665162 762275 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orjeiojwrrijweroijhweroihwetoihwer < 1322665166 568212 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1322665167 702761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1322665168 884693 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322665185 485665 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> fromIntegral (fromEnum (x == 2))) 3 < 1322665186 723164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322667718 177697 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: PUNPUNPUN < 1322667718 399173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322667866 969107 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FUNFUNFUN < 1322667882 402083 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `mappend` 2 < 1322667883 565178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322667883 750645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Monoid.Monoid a' < 1322667883 750813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1322667899 676748 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Add < 1322667900 903309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Add' < 1322667938 759491 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Sum 1 `mappend` Sum 2 < 1322667939 931911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = 3} < 1322667946 101887 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing. < 1322668044 356808 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322668062 970434 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const (Sum 3) `mappend` const (Sum 4) $ 6 < 1322668064 116538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = 7} < 1322668068 755715 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322668126 62898 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail `mappend` (++"dongs") $ " lol" < 1322668128 1400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "lol loldongs" < 1322668214 355463 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I feel the number of instances you can make with a -> b is just out of hand. < 1322668238 87666 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time, however < 1322668241 244372 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that. < 1322668811 965877 :kallisti_!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322669133 694186 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669133 961175 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322669134 148367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669534 234717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322669589 564504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I completed Braid, anyway (any%; 100%ing it takes years without spoilers, apparently, and the game disguises the fact that there is a better ending than the obvious one) < 1322670019 40860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently you have to wait on one level for like two hours or some other dumb shit like that < 1322670072 238430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322670079 724740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :around an hour and a half < 1322670090 380842 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did he think that was a good idea < 1322670194 526965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the mere existence of the stars is hidden < 1322670198 375442 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, does anyone know a better way of deleting a function definition in vim than d/^}/? < 1322670212 387981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putting things behind very long waits is a good way to hide them < 1322670217 129066 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddd% works, but is gross < 1322670224 68621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's how most of the instances of Totaka's Song are hidden, for instance) < 1322670260 745722 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, d]} might do it < 1322670272 504565 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! d} < 1322670277 67262 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1322670400 926034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other issue with Braid is that you don't get to hear the music much < 1322670409 594547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as half the time it's playing backwards or at a crazy speed or whatever < 1322670479 503584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fun thing I just noticed by accident: the MediaWiki keyboard shortcut for "delete" (alt-shift-d) means "undelete" on a nonexistent page < 1322670570 658010 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . m Excela‎; 12:24 . . (+1,570) . . Oerjan (Talk | contribs) (Fnord) < 1322670570 881359 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Excela‎; 10:35 . . (-1,570) . . Theodorex1Jf (Talk | contribs) < 1322670575 443730 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: _please_ protect Excela already... < 1322670582 473735 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322670587 206430 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said they moved to another page if they did that < 1322670589 14980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322670592 610689 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have we had google translate bots before? < 1322670597 843711 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any but I may be wrong < 1322670606 6051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1322670614 259560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just protect every page except [[Snack]] for a few days < 1322670617 832546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may be the same framework finding anew way to get around filters < 1322670619 449622 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we don't have to bother reverting < 1322670634 163736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, protecting an entire namespace needs dev powers < 1322670643 302959 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant manually :) < 1322670644 787331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a huge amount of very very spammy protection by hand < 1322670663 142842 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, now I want to not revert the spam for long enough to see if the bots will ever re-mangle a mangled page < 1322670681 167293 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if left to their own devices they'll turn any page into completely unintelligible mush < 1322670686 539694 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/maybe if/maybe/ < 1322670791 924294 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322670881 682995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322671088 361913 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322671107 510806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1322671274 275205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : as half the time it's playing backwards or at a crazy speed or whatever <-- that annoyed me too < 1322671285 275035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how did you end up playing Braid? < 1322671317 957680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: apparently you have to wait on one level for like two hours or some other dumb shit like that <-- just let it run in the background while you eat lunch < 1322671348 251687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I watched a speedrun, and it inspired me to play the game < 1322671352 289856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322671359 47862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it already, but it had a dependency on nvidia-something so I thought it wouldn't work < 1322671362 904796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322671366 213344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I installed the nvidia package anyway and it did work < 1322671374 984272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322671384 792708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I played it on ati/amd so yeah < 1322671412 754174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Intel graphics; I deliberately aim for laptops which have them < 1322671423 44413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works better on Linux than the alternatives, typically < 1322671429 113012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hybrid graphics is a nice alternative there < 1322671436 450256 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Better modulo their being terrible < 1322671442 799560 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good drivers only get you so far :P < 1322671443 685565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use intel unless you want good 3D performance < 1322671444 993137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they're good /enough/ < 1322671447 428557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what I want to do < 1322671462 292025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's important for me are good drivers and good enough 3D performance < 1322671465 804928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Intel hits both requirements < 1322671490 531264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have very low 3D expectations then < 1322671554 198789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough to play Neverwinter Nights < 1322671560 762774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly is a pretty old game < 1322671572 748194 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1322671606 322765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come on, I had some third-party stuff fail on intel graphics in NWN due to texture compression formats that weren't supported < 1322671616 916813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't really drag the graphical quality settings to max < 1322671630 263331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous for such an old game. < 1322671655 33455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that isn't intel graphics have been able to run nwn on max graphical settings for several years < 1322671677 952865 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so OSX is estimated at 86,000,000 lines of code.. windows xp at 45,000,000 lines of code.. do you think a haskell OS would end up down at 1,000,000? < 1322671747 929291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x is larger than windows xp? < 1322671748 861267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322671751 684370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version of os x < 1322671763 63745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said estimated anyway < 1322671766 842169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322671769 888850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.4 < 1322671786 775728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki reference says < 1322671790 654705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jobs, Steve (August 2006). "Live from WWDC 2006: Steve Jobs Keynote". Retrieved 2007-02-16. "86 million lines of source code that was ported to run on an entirely new architecture with zero hiccups."" < 1322671960 252754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows XP, released in 2001, has 35 million lines of code < 1322671977 914924 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. Windows XP was compiled of 45 million lines of code. < 1322671996 37021 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats 10 million lines of code between friends < 1322672115 411594 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several thousand engineers have labored to build and test Windows Vista, a sprawling, complex software construction project with 50 million lines of code, or more than 40 percent larger than Windows XP. < 1322672143 571438 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly theres a bit of bullshitting going on somewhere < 1322672219 651668 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new york times says "35 million lines of code." < 1322672230 664087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki sourcing the windows facebook page says 45 < 1322672253 51984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems these numbers are fairly meaningless < 1322672284 596494 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeff atwood says 40 million < 1322672310 962206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently quoting wikipedia < 1322673127 682355 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322673465 564342 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322673914 51751 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322673945 689395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2008 Linux had approx. 6 million lines of actual code. < 1322673956 212421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 10 million includes whitespace and comments. < 1322674012 44929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :note this is just the kernel itself. < 1322674176 73602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9793 Torvalds, an asteroid named after Linus Torvalds < 1322674176 666774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9882 Stallman, an asteroid named after Richard Matthew Stallman, American hacker, founder of the free software movement and the GNU project < 1322674179 72326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9965 GNU, an asteroid named after the GNU project < 1322674193 903712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9885 Linux is an asteroid discovered on October 12, 1994 by Spacewatch. The asteroid is named after the Linux operating system kernel < 1322674218 914448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love asteroid names. < 1322674319 715353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there are 18,269 Main Belt asteroid articles. < 1322674407 189505 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably mostly autogenerated < 1322674418 636791 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: 1994? < 1322674426 397066 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after Linux only 3 years after it began... < 1322674440 307685 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovered < 1322674446 423437 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Named, possibly later < 1322674454 864347 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1322674468 343485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not, but I think that's possible < 1322674504 220443 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Linux would have been fairly popular in that kind of environment by 1994 < 1322674561 567748 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :14070060 total lines in Linux 3.1.1, according to ohcount; 10011948 excluding comments and whitespace < 1322674590 953257 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How much excluding drivers? < 1322674600 808911 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This includes xml, xslt, scheme, and other languages) < 1322674611 925933 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet a lot of that is documentation < 1322674620 641610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not *that* much though :P < 1322674636 427749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of January 4, 2011, using current LOC and wage numbers with David A. Wheeler's calculations it would cost approximately 3 billion USD (about 2.2 billion EUR) to redevelop the Linux kernel. < 1322674644 253552 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want just the C and assembler files, 13233055+459402 and 9396007+362268 < 1322674658 371366 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: David A. Wheeler's calculations = sloccount's bullshit estimates :P < 1322674670 421036 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohloh and sloccount and all these things always estimate like a million times what things would actually cost to develop < 1322674673 917789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also 247515+149638 of "cpp", which I guess is headers < 1322674681 694033 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they claimed cfunge would cost like $80k or something < 1322674700 718971 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm more interested in how much of that is driver code < 1322674719 45314 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm running your not-drivers calculation, it'll take a while < 1322674721 283905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey programmers are expensive. and lazy. < 1322674727 21891 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding a driver doesn't really increase the overall complexity of a system, so in some sense drivers are free from the perspective of the rest of the system < 1322674740 756183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas adding code within the core system does increase complexity < 1322674933 701417 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: http://sprunge.us/TXcC < 1322674970 236466 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, so only 56% of Linux is drivers < 1322674981 899642 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an awfully big core < 1322675051 587398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so assuming an average yearly salary of $63k (current average in the US), they're saying it would take.... < 1322675084 833301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (63/80)*12 < 1322675086 40223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.45 < 1322675095 781188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one person 9.45 months to code cfunge? < 1322675130 181645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted they probably used a different estimation technique) < 1322675139 874134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least a different average salary) < 1322675163 372223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I believe the method is literally "take statistic for lines/day a programmer writes, scale by salary" < 1322675186 393833 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.openjdk.java.net/hsx/hotspot-rt/hotspot/rev/763f01599ff4 Ha ha ha oh boy < 1322675219 319672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well that's kind of reasonable I guess. < 1322675330 192664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's non-whitespace lines. < 1322675344 206810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1322675353 665975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I guess those kind of count too? comments do anyway < 1322675369 828515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that represents documentation effort. < 1322675625 971588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5." < 1322675632 500485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linus v. tanenbaum is so fun < 1322675645 841583 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like they're pretending to be oblivious people in 1992 < 1322675649 432127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1322675693 809215 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322675693 988628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is like he's pretending to be an oblivious person in 2011 < 1322675759 393063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322675766 518795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on that probably horrible estimate. < 1322675784 222581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322675786 683660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322675822 139153 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322675872 648553 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: produce a funge98 interpreter through genetically engineering a baby < 1322675919 386468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hey < 1322675919 967489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be horrible if compilers attempted to detect typos and simply corrected them under the hood... < 1322675938 603945 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of a compiler that did that < 1322675945 352449 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was awful < 1322675971 838399 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. <-- it takes 2 people to create a baby < 1322675974 252572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl supposedly resolves ambiguities automatically < 1322675988 748806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just saw an interesting way to upload a *.patch to a mediawiki installation that didn't accept that type: "File:Makefile.patch.png" < 1322676011 848799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do people ever try that sort of stuff on wikipedia? < 1322676013 75104 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just write a piet program that performs the patch < 1322676022 239489 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody can delete that for not being a valid image < 1322676023 134294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322676028 824626 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322676034 19546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it is on the defcon dev wiki < 1322676037 532370 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :741) interestingly enough it takes about as much time for a person to produce cfunge as it does to create a baby. < 1322676047 65542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people attempted it occasionally; on Wikipeida such files can be speedied < 1322676049 789078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wikipedia < 1322676050 915339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322676056 554612 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322676093 765087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you know you get dev access to uplink/darwinia/defcon/multiwinia with the humble bundle now < 1322676096 80562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great < 1322676111 978835 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I completely missed getting an email about it and it being near the top of /r/programming. < 1322676116 895725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think normally they sell that for a higher price < 1322676123 26528 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, what I usually do is ignore my email and not read reddit, because hey, Vorpal will let me know. < 1322676126 110195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah good thing I told you then :P < 1322676136 278707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy australian mailman mailing list reminders day! < 1322676142 312672 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DEFCON and Multiwinia source are new, I believe. < 1322676147 749307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm really < 1322676149 605480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1322676153 422070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just DEFCON. < 1322676155 92676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's even on Slashdot < 1322676157 721692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway my statement was correct then. I forgot the question mark above < 1322676157 901753 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the most - wonderful tiiiiime of the year! < 1322676167 320759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes you knew it. Which was all I stated :P < 1322676173 314997 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: happy ammlr day! < 1322676180 115045 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, abbreviation ruins it < 1322676189 423216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you have to write it out < 1322676194 893265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which. Tomorrow is my birthday < 1322676205 492086 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: happy australian mailman mailing list reminders day, then < 1322676219 949812 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry, I only wish people happies on australian mailman mailing list reminders day. < 1322676222 811428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how old will that make you? < 1322676227 530888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day we worship the ancient sumerian god Amm Lr < 1322676232 262261 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try getting a better birthday < 1322676245 358638 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, I just noticed how many players blognomic has now < 1322676246 840225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: err, I'm old enough to not think much about my age. Lets see... *gets calculator* < 1322676263 935217 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is old as dirt < 1322676264 393680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1322676264 595509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's going back to normal < 1322676279 599439 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you had a birthday recently, i kinda lose track < 1322676284 361688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but seriously, you stop thinking about exact age once you get past 20 or so. < 1322676288 252270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm older than Vorpal? < 1322676296 233688 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you are < 1322676297 788856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aren't you like 24? < 1322676300 278302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322676314 878037 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ais523 not remember when Vorpal was 18 < 1322676317 102051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway of course, I thought it was well established < 1322676319 490596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 19 < 1322676328 992238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if by "recently" you mean in the last 6 months, then yes. < 1322676332 913305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: err I was in this channel before I turned 18 I'm pretty sure < 1322676343 348520 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1322676346 592875 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: happy belated australian mailman mailing list reminders day! < 1322676349 753343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes. < 1322676353 788801 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2008 < 1322676359 348531 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only until you start reaching round numbers again :P < 1322676367 116461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322676372 87936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :/ < 1322676375 945049 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, 2007 < 1322676381 973893 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2007-10-30 < 1322676387 636439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so 17 then < 1322676391 318052 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the day I made my worst mistake < 1322676395 663914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322676395 871876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how old were you when you came here? < 1322676406 232430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 or 12 iirc? < 1322676408 633123 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: umm, 11 or 12 < 1322676410 662588 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly < 1322676432 665108 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was 11 or 12, that was about when I started in the Murderous Maths forum < 1322676433 988460 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1322676440 875301 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I have since sadly abandoned < 1322676485 979387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well it's good you left before you were murdered < 1322676487 283828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid=> select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' order by serial ASC limit 1; < 1322676487 468440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body < 1322676487 468549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------+---------------------+---------+--------+--------------------------------------------+------+------ < 1322676487 468594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676492 95208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can count it from that < 1322676497 896337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I was 12 < 1322676509 421709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 16th of October 2007 < 1322676509 603254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, normalised nick, that is why it says elliott) < 1322676512 395054 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that one doesn't count, i joined, was too intimidated to say anything, then left < 1322676517 696693 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next time i joined was in 2007 < 1322676524 343021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wait is it normalised or normalized in UK English? < 1322676535 481240 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends on dialect < 1322676538 210135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends whether en-gb or en-gb-OED < 1322676539 558026 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED uses -zed < 1322676553 712474 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *en-GB, *en-GB-oed < 1322676554 623369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676554 809974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 208002 | 2006-12-29 21:43:09 | elliott | | | 4 | < 1322676554 810158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 271393 | 2007-05-14 17:48:38 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-54457988.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | < 1322676562 645307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: too intimidated by what? < 1322676565 893065 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined the UMMF 17 days before my 13th birthday < 1322676570 534547 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lots of people and silence!!!! < 1322676574 544394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh < 1322676585 35827 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have all been nasty. I don't talk until I'm sure I'm the nastiest one present < 1322676596 355317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1322676618 985421 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 11 then, assuming i can do arithmetic < 1322676622 577662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait OED isn't the default for en-gb? sacrilege! < 1322676623 121450 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm not sure of < 1322676630 911004 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995-08 --> 2006-12 < 1322676636 564027 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or --> 2007-05, the same either way < 1322676655 972898 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -zed is the only common case where -oed disagrees from common british english usage iirc < 1322676663 966743 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1322676686 222305 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and they list -ise too < 1322676689 663143 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as the preferred spelling < 1322676696 370263 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The use of -ize instead of -ise does not affect the spelling of words ending in -yse, such as analyse, paralyse and catalyse" < 1322676698 323662 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1322676731 271523 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an excellent analyzis < 1322676852 73577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, looks like OED has a few other idiosyncrasies too, like preferring "co-operate" < 1322676869 992476 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coöperäte < 1322676873 569820 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: confusing matters further, it seems like "cooperate" is what appears in their "consumer" dictionaries < 1322676882 579802 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the unusable-as-a-dictionary OED text itself :P < 1322676884 207309 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to English cooperate, or Esoterian coperate. < 1322676911 643472 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read as "Estonian". < 1322676912 790146 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or volapük köüperät < 1322676923 495658 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was confusing, 'cuz they do use os and diaereses a lot. < 1322676924 808163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: possibly not actual volapük) < 1322676957 662859 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban c'ou,. zrxrope < 1322676980 616138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'ou,. tvtrope < 1322676989 568308 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-247-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322677019 913186 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cooperate?view=uk or is it..... < 1322677026 470723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care enough to try and dig deeper < 1322677042 574185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coöperate. < 1322677048 364155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cöpærüt < 1322677055 503871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cooperate#Alternative_forms < 1322677067 444955 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty < 1322677067 759430 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-173-239.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322677074 406782 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As opposed to English cooperate, or Esoterian coöperate. < 1322677085 243010 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway I will stop being annoyed by your diaeresing if you apply it properly. < 1322677087 530654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, of course. < 1322677098 148972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, excuse me how else do you apply it. < 1322677103 704773 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I.e., to all diaereses, not just diaereses on adjacent vowels. < 1322677115 534883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once talked like that for an /entire minute/; I'm sure you can manage. < 1322677122 560506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes fine I will do it. < 1322677122 895192 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1322677126 980174 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/adjacent vowels/repeated vowels/ < 1322677199 444254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is quite easy. < 1322677215 440331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :('ea' isn't a diaeresis.) < 1322677220 833653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor is that one.) < 1322677237 333584 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Talk about poetry. < 1322677246 675594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poëtry. < 1322677274 413949 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also shouldn't it be di(ae with " on top)resis because of the i, or am I wrong. < 1322677283 702191 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In phonology, hiatus (English: /haɪˈeɪtəs/; Latin: [hɪˈaːtʊs] "gaping")[1] or diaeresis (/daɪˈɛrɨsɨs/ or /daɪˈɪərɨsɨs/,[2] from Ancient Greek διαίρεσις diaíresis "division")[3] refers to two vowel sounds occurring in adjacent syllables, with no intervening consonant. When two adjacent vowel sounds occur in the same syllable, the result is instead described as a diphthong. < 1322677283 881244 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The English words hiatus and diaeresis themselves contain a hiatus between the first and second syllables. < 1322677319 929049 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need "diæ̈resis". < 1322677333 987715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far does this rabbit hole go? < 1322677351 819144 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO FAR. < 1322677357 670216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have gone for potry < 1322677368 592300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Will you cooperate on your hiatus to produce poetry with diaereses? < 1322677370 956052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is because you are an idiöt. < 1322677393 831515 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:35: ais523: _please_ protect Excela already... < 1322677394 13328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:42: oh wait < 1322677394 13520 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:47: you said they moved to another page if they did that < 1322677411 12617 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is some way to protect the page so the bots don't actually realize it is protected < 1322677413 452646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is excela a brainfuck derivative < 1322677421 30344 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ghostprotecting? < 1322677434 783578 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess < 1322677441 485443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghostecting. < 1322677447 174070 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ("ghostbanning" is a common term for the forum equivalent of that) < 1322677453 588577 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only the ghostbanned user can see their own posts) < 1322677468 115572 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well it sounds like what reddit does with voting < 1322677468 942355 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require an extension that probably doesn't even _exist_ yet though, so good luck with that :P < 1322677477 443490 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1322677493 706231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, diȧėreses (look, I don't have a compose binding for it) are remarkably uncommon. < 1322677511 795214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: æ̈ here you go. < 1322677524 86771 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322677526 421821 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322677527 849842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, better, get me a decent .XCompose. < 1322677538 205342 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think if you get an ae, and then do what you do for a diaeresis and then press space, it'll work. < 1322677567 939025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1322677592 924311 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shruggot* < 1322677593 360256 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's rather ridiculous with a page that has a plethora of recent edits but hasn't really been changed since 2006 :P < 1322677596 302575 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew of a decent .XCompose. < 1322677608 601863 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we should start improving it to confuse the spambots < 1322677612 676068 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322677639 398574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die, reses! < 1322677649 233514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliött_, I distinctly recall someöne linking me to one on reddit, but I didn't keep track of it. < 1322677724 137710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?t=3003 < 1322677729 582073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snigger* < 1322677819 602792 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hehehehehe < 1322677821 238229 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headclot < 1322677846 648956 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who said I was joking - I bought the Humble Introversion bundle and I was quite impressed at what I saw." < 1322677852 77072 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9882 Stallman, an asteroid named after Richard Matthew Stallman, American hacker, founder of the free software movement and the GNU project < 1322677853 740677 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email: Technology_rocks@hotmail.com < 1322677862 163385 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that ever gets close to earth, we're fucked < 1322677912 316277 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We do not exist on the internet yet at least. :/" < 1322677914 140073 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humble INTP bundle < 1322677915 93628 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheheehehehehehehe < 1322677962 227932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i haven't seen myers-briggs mentioned much in a while < 1322678763 671796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322678878 161005 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where? < 1322678924 255363 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um, i didn't mean to imply that i'd seen it, i just thought of the fact i hadn't after making that pun < 1322678952 758906 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1322678974 5887 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 QUIT :Quit: restart < 1322679160 547435 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boredom -> Special:Random -> Kit Osbourne -> Combat Zone Wrestling -> Philadelphia -> Gentrification -> Property tax -> Mill (currency) -> Latin -> Ancient Greek which we've hit before < 1322679255 744579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we got a strong acceptance to STACS 2012! < 1322679256 69021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322679285 772999 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322679298 982541 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: about that message, didn't i then prove the theorem? < 1322679318 386400 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient Greek still leads roundabout to Greek language :P < 1322679342 107318 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, other reviewers may or may not have given us equally great reviews. < 1322679368 384498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of them may or may not have pointed out a full page listing of typos and thinkos < 1322679389 15382 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you prove a lil' theorem oerjan needs < 1322679410 642279 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1322679443 513233 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this was one of the really long ones, still passing through Human (after Ngevd's very temporary cycle i feel like rechecking where this one goes; no change so far i think) < 1322679464 194829 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh it's just a simple one, proving the equivalence of two really simple functions < 1322679466 20690 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that right oerjan < 1322679473 257209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we ever come to a conclusion on differentiation chains? < 1322679480 36841 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's just not smart enough to do it you see < 1322679480 857611 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah oerjan solved it < 1322679492 652930 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer was? < 1322679498 608609 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: answer to what < 1322679502 691574 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at e^(ax) < 1322679511 56559 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: are you talking about the ZipList stuff? i think it's pretty clear in principle. < 1322679521 699982 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and choose a fittingly < 1322679529 686922 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oerjan: did you get uniqueness from that? < 1322679552 301020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you then get that from taylor series with little trouble for analytic functions < 1322679556 57417 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i didn't actually _give_ the proof, i just recalled what i remembered as the answer < 1322679593 46727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider e^(ax) a proof of existence, but okay so you know it's unique < 1322679701 752647 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm pretty sure, although i don't recall how it goes, it's probably some linear operator proof < 1322679756 769344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322679763 208265 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think you need only something like C^n functions to make it so < 1322679788 296197 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, it's obviously C^infty once something _is_ a solution. < 1322680109 97762 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh it may involve one of the basic extension theorems for differential equations - if the values of a solution function and its n-1 first derivatives at a point are given, then its extension to some neighborhood is unique and by some linear algebra some linear combination of the e^(ax) things obviously fits. < 1322680159 14374 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322680381 947390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the Human article after a while actually reaches Ngevd's Valuation (finance) < 1322680481 454451 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically this path is ridiculously long < 1322680501 309729 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322680518 485690 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I first encountered that loop via Human Population...? < 1322680522 807868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started at "chess" < 1322680551 333919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait sorry it wasn't one of Ngevd's anyway, he had Valuation of options -> Option (finance) at one point < 1322680557 543786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did they remove the philosophy loop? < 1322680559 873143 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is similar but not the same < 1322680568 304379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we are not doing the same game < 1322680575 387226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1322680636 215628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are looking at the last link of the introduction section, which tends to give _rather_ longer paths < 1322680650 242671 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still has some commonly occuring end cycles < 1322680666 796614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322680703 118479 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i wonder what the longest cycle on wikipedia in _general_ is < 1322680713 103592 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. picking which link to follow by a magic oracle that picks the one that leads to the longest cycle :P < 1322680751 380415 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now reaching President of the United States. i don't believe anything has changed on this path since last time < 1322680810 646551 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hm i wonder what would be an algorithm for that. in fact isn't that hamiltonian-cycle like, so likely NP-complete < 1322680816 629926 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322680859 852300 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_path_problem ? < 1322680866 394910 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete, apparently < 1322680867 696984 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, solving it requires at a minimum finding out whether there is a hamiltonian cycle < 1322680867 875909 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322680868 56589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could even be harder, but certainly at least as hard as hamiltonian. < 1322680878 154134 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hamiltonian hard, it seems < 1322680883 53048 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :godo term that < 1322680885 363138 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamiltonian hard < 1322680909 56720 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the usual meaning of "hard" in complexity theory < 1322680925 892034 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just hardness / completeness of the decision problem. but wait, that's enough. < 1322680936 62139 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just do a binary search < 1322680946 690208 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the way it usually goes < 1322680954 744548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1322680961 307864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the decision problem has a suitable parameter to search by < 1322680988 235369 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nono, a nondeterministic tm cannot necessarily show that something is not doable < 1322681007 638888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that some length cannot be done < 1322681067 755407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well of course. you end up with the oracle class P^NP < 1322681086 768529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we agree that it's probably not np-complete < 1322681096 358274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-hard, is the term :P < 1322681116 966931 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i know that, since i just used it < 1322681124 167236 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obvious from hamiltonian-hard + hamiltonian being NP-complete < 1322681172 721483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we'd need to show it's in co-np i guess < 1322681215 487970 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322681234 952687 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1322681242 197814 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely to be hard for _both_ NP and co-NP, i'd think < 1322681268 10742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the decision problem is in both np and co-np, then isn't the problem of actually finding the longest path in np < 1322681300 11057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can then do binary search within np < 1322681310 488368 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFP < 1322681320 628506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1322681336 501500 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1322681351 434621 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :please stop arguing about terminology and start agreeing with everything i say < 1322681351 654949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there? < 1322681375 481863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322681377 723148 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNP, was it < 1322681380 662209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: know anything about Dungeons of Dreadmor? All I know it is a rouge like, and was added to the last humble bundle. < 1322681385 91510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1322681387 125949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I figure you might know if it is any good < 1322681387 734870 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322681388 324898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322681390 341666 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnp < 1322681397 298022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll give it a try < 1322681435 314227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions calculabilated in nondeterministic polynomial time < 1322681435 590034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe. it looks a little tricky. < 1322681445 645462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, difficulty setting: elves (easy), dwarves (normal), going rouge (hard). Plus a permadeath option < 1322681453 181544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what to chose < 1322681463 374473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to go for the nethack way of doing it < 1322681491 208035 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going rouge ... SO RED ... SO RED IT HURTS MY EYES < 1322681503 776909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed that :P < 1322681514 715031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rogue of course < 1322681518 301862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :get an upper bound for biggest value, then do binary search, starting both the np algo and the np algo for the complement at the same time, one of them returns true in polynomial time, continue for linearly many steps to reach value < 1322681530 971940 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm we're on to South Korea, i vaguely recall we may be on the way to the Petronas Towers cycle < 1322681536 956583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322681542 314267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay no class selection. Instead you select 5 skills from a set of... ~40 < 1322681576 647819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually 7 out of 34. I fail at counting today < 1322681581 813037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a random button < 1322681583 861337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :running the algos at the same time is a polynomial increase, and there's a linear bound on the length of the upper bound < 1322681607 592401 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i'm just not quite sure that's what they meant by FNP in wikipedia < 1322681622 209635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmph now i really want to know the longest cycle in wikipedia :P < 1322681627 290120 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how many years do i gotta wait to bruteforce it < 1322681649 865754 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's the definition of NP imo :D < 1322681683 721635 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: er NP is decision problems. you are trying to calculate a function problem, which obviously has a different name. < 1322681691 516226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no race selection < 1322681709 458291 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not sure wikipedia's FNP is precisely the class you are using. < 1322681724 850362 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had this strange relation definition < 1322681751 594726 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HOW MANY YEAAAAAAARS < 1322681757 143857 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it has its own article too, i just looked at FP < 1322681775 531587 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but i mean fnp has nothing to do with the class fnp in complexity theory imo < 1322681785 420683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: get to the singularity first, and we can start estimating < 1322681788 51058 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the language of witnesses < 1322681795 562807 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cries < 1322681795 741873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever they like to call it < 1322681800 123692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how many years !!!! < 1322681812 833726 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: 14 < 1322681826 243948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there is of course a possibility that wikipedia's graph allows for some greatly simplifying optimizations < 1322681844 40609 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just checked the definition of fnp in my book and it's definitely the relations computable by a nondeterministic turing machine. < 1322681853 787477 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well paths are very short in general < 1322681867 462919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that you get nondeterministic output from your tm < 1322681879 499887 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me check again, actually... < 1322681883 207121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so far it seems like a good rougelike. Good game music too. It doesn't take itself seriously though. < 1322681897 53440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also often good in roguelikes < 1322681900 458040 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "If you follow the best route in all cases, it takes an average of 4.573 clicks to get from any Wikipedia article to any other." < 1322681931 17941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bellare and Goldwasser showed in 1994 using some standard assumptions that there exist problems in NP such that their FNP versions are not self-reducible, implying that they are harder than their corresponding decision problem. < 1322681935 102099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I wonder what the value is not counting orphan and linkless? < 1322681935 281491 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1322681956 205584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1322681971 300470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Wikipedia has 2301486 articles with 55550003 links between them (at least in my dataset, those numbers have definitely changed by now). The largest "strongly-connected-component" of wikipedia has 2111480 articles. That is, there are 2111480 articles with the property that from any of them, it is possible to get to any other one. The rest are mostly pages that no-one has linked to or disambiguation pages. For the graph-theory nerds, there is no < 1322681971 480441 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other disjoint strongly connected component of more than about 3 articles. For everyone else, the remaining 190006 articles are pretty boring, linkwise." < 1322681974 725498 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i doubt it'd change much < 1322681986 657946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1322681992 37848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw this, I'm getting the latest humble indie bundle < 1322681996 636567 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnp, in my book, is not even anything, they use the terms NPMV and NPSV for multi- and single-valued functions calculated by a tm < 1322682002 180075 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um i was assuming you wanted to always take the _worst_ route < 1322682005 684292 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes < 1322682008 78170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fp is what it should be < 1322682009 536656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone's probably been looking carefully for walled gardens < 1322682012 341684 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was just telling you the only thing i knew about wikipedia's graph :P < 1322682015 247961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(articles linking to each other but not to articles in general) < 1322682016 836102 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was in 2008 < 1322682032 257367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well yeah, it is graphical of course. What else would one expect from a modern game. Oblique graphics (I think the term is, like isometric but aligned with one axis) < 1322682033 842913 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's more infoboxes < 1322682037 316168 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obsessive linking of dates < 1322682038 807361 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thinks like that < 1322682039 947318 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1322682041 80470 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and countries < 1322682043 690559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: those only go one way < 1322682047 145697 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322682048 278603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't lead to a strongly connected component < 1322682051 866455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it goes both ways < 1322682084 434945 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the complexities below, I just use "n" to denote either number of nodes or number of edges. Since the graph is so sparse, they're mostly interchangeable." < 1322682125 695188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphs? Complexity? This is Eodermdrome, right? < 1322682146 472729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for another graph-based esolang < 1322682161 552264 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I remembered I still need to finish Salesman < 1322682163 543642 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petronas Towers it was. < 1322682177 125503 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wikipedia < 1322682199 872326 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wikipedia as an eodermdrome program. discuss. < 1322682200 194306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikidermdrome. < 1322682205 166958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the game has some interesting name for your basic stats. I think "burliness" is it's name for "strength" and so on < 1322682213 411985 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322682214 255429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sagacity is probably int I guess? < 1322682222 272129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stat names are always a sign of quality! < 1322682222 452380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :caddishness I don't know < 1322682229 791538 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose eodermdrome state fits better. < 1322682232 734958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caddishness, I assume, would be charisma. < 1322682241 836088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no but in this case a sign that the game is not taking itself seriously at all. < 1322682272 262555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nimbleness (dex I presume), savvy (wis?) and stubbornness (?) < 1322682353 404970 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help how do I install .rpm < 1322682358 586242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a traffic cone as a helmet... heh < 1322682381 144238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, is this a Humble Bundle thing? < 1322682384 452554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322682388 452337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFCON < 1322682406 239412 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a .deb < 1322682407 421109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: just use the .tar.gz? < 1322682409 249898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1322682409 450404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debs are easy < 1322682409 849322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just download the .gz, TbH. < 1322682445 380572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less fuss, and it's not like adding a launcher (the only serious advantage of a .deb in this context) isn't much work. < 1322682579 774500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION purges SpaceChem, uses APT again. < 1322682582 61376 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1322682585 997012 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .deb is not much less fuss. < 1322682591 384931 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can literally double click them to install. < 1322682598 781336 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more fuss < 1322682601 562269 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Use the .debs. < 1322682623 988030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was only not using the .debs because of momentary selective blindness < 1322682666 591218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wand of laser < 1322682703 243671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that so far my favourite roguelike is Pokmon Mystery Dungeon Red Rescue Team? < 1322682738 606293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the description of wand of laser is funny: "Aside from tangential properties, this wand's primary magical power involves distracting cats" < 1322682761 453431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty effective still < 1322682789 806009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats are "entropy: 27, burn rate: 15" whatever that means < 1322682810 88689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's describing the standard entropy value. < 1322682838 426450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay the tutorial just told me, it has a chance of burnout when used based on entropy and entropy increases with every use < 1322682850 137870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about burn rate though < 1322683331 455784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no, it's a pretty good roguelike < 1322683353 717716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky is better, though; Sky removed a lot of rough edges but added a couple of silly mechanics, but it's probably still the best of the three < 1322683359 484139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it starts out far too easy < 1322683364 545178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all three, that is) < 1322683627 738653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322683692 848515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322683761 939926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322683909 768514 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for reminding me of that six degrees of wikipedia thing, followed some links and the guy has an interesting series of haskell posts on his blog :P < 1322683947 889949 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322683967 280537 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1322684019 850307 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it involves arrows so i don't understand it :'( < 1322684119 335715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Applicative be defined in terms of fmap and pure and (liftA2 (,)) instead of (<*>) and pure? < 1322684142 820359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, i said. < 1322684215 481720 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fm <*> x = uncurry ($) `fmap` liftA2 (,) fm x < 1322684332 886732 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i mentioned that a blog comment called it lax monoidal category or something like that < 1322685214 722333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please describe in glowing terms the inventor of IRP. < 1322685214 939729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have no idea who invented IRP < 1322685214 939901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : :( < 1322685225 363828 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In #irp ) < 1322685252 952051 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MVNDI < 1322685415 429922 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you go back in time and not invent IRP? < 1322685443 672994 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: If I hadn't invented IRP, you couldn't have even just requested that in IRP#esoteric NOW COULD YOU < 1322685631 100891 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP, is that the internet relay programming or whatchamacallit? < 1322685648 653501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1322685654 560771 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685658 192148 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is one. < 1322685676 734416 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i suddenly having this deja vu feeling < 1322685700 519109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [i]gnorant rabbi preachers < 1322685728 273915 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-30.txt:20:40:54: IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685816 337227 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i must have loaded from a saved game, or something. < 1322685829 50886 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know how temperamenatl `log is :P < 1322685837 551620 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does synchronicity guarantee that it would have given the right result < 1322685839 16803 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [i]gnorant rabbi preachers < 1322685846 30955 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-30.txt:20:42:08: 2011-11-30.txt:20:40:54: IRP is Ignorant Rabbi Preachers. < 1322685880 401668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it doesn't look _overly_. < 1322685896 142896 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be another word if my brain were working. < 1322686061 517433 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"were"? how many brains do you have? < 1322686082 820414 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which we learn that olsner doesn't know about the subjunctive. < 1322686176 189418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to worry about my increasing snarkiness. slightly. < 1322686178 378437 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* this troll on reddit hasn't replied to the second-last phase of my argument < 1322686311 27229 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, is that the subjunctive? can you combine subjunctive with if? < 1322686322 21105 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure < 1322686379 987497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i suspect that's the _majority_ of uses < 1322686532 269050 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322686668 220526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well.. I'm not the authority on moods anyway, not even the subjunctive one < 1322686776 463710 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your original line was slightly awkward-seeming btw < 1322686786 77682 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1322686787 914830 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not wrong at all < 1322686791 91868 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there would be another word if my brain were working. < 1322686798 556039 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there would be another word were my brain working" seems better to me < 1322686806 899692 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1322686847 233060 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course looks more awkward to _me_, but... :P < 1322686860 465181 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! told ya the if was wonky < 1322686915 727926 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the whole thing is kind of awkward, it doesn't feel like the way someone would talk without trying to < 1322686962 691519 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiet, Thou < 1322686989 982053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking without trying to is also awkward < 1322687002 144392 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah is fohel askgaøla gloher < 1322687006 504132 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... were it to happen < 1322688255 585149 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322688767 771902 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh i just realised that arrow notation having banana brackets is funny < 1322688783 675109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1322688792 462502 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you < 1322688793 94587 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1322688799 135295 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1322688806 184567 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: time flies like a < 1322688812 545269 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n < 1322688819 62412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott_ -----### < 1322688825 717275 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1322688829 649570 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crying < 1322688836 980779 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a banana fly on your head < 1322688892 407022 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (do you (understand arow,)es) < 1322688904 395149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one does < 1322688929 552543 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even oleg just pretends they're applicatives + category < 1322688956 543111 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have not found that to help, seeing as I failed to derive arr from Applicative + Category without looking it up :P < 1322688961 331937 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((<$> id)) < 1322688969 427125 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny that < 1322688985 273214 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implyig im stupid :( < 1322689045 625680 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah just retired < 1322689056 765415 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry < 1322689075 297514 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of oxygen. < 1322689113 994016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you know about weird C++ stuff right? < 1322689122 123013 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: kill oerjan , to die for, insult with old meme < 1322689133 981432 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i AM weird C++ stuff --leonardo de vinci < 1322689137 903894 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*da < 1322689138 179236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1322689145 797154 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wai < 1322689146 277888 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1322689150 215357 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obnoxious meme is obnoxious < 1322689150 394183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :da is actually rihght < 1322689151 399359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: any idea why foo might not work (due to "'foo' was not declared in this scope") while this->foo works perfectly? < 1322689153 651172 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was meant to be a funny joke < 1322689155 994483 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. < 1322689159 880401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: templates are involved < 1322689169 723751 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is this a puzzle or can i see code < 1322689197 51499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it is from darwinia source, trying to get it to compile. Adding this-> worked. I don't think I'm legally allowed to paste it just like that. < 1322689209 262670 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i own the bundle. < 1322689219 450855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well I need to paste it to you in private then, sec < 1322689315 10675 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if internet memes will be like fashion, and recycle in a few decades < 1322689337 527895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd did a comic on that, although I can't remember if it was pre- or post-decay. < 1322689346 404663 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://xkcd.com/286/ < 1322689351 948883 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WAY AHEAD OF YOU < 1322689367 238575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-decay, then. < 1322689377 50570 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your memes are belong to us < 1322689396 630985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retroturn. < 1322689412 178483 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, when was aybabtu? < 1322689464 808787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- became an Internet phenomenon or meme in 2000–2002." < 1322689465 488060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322689471 648748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: see /msg < 1322689472 317288 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ask a random channel when you can ask Wikipedia? < 1322689493 132930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked first, then I went to wikipedia and waited for someone to repeat the information I just read there < 1322689496 455449 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IF WE WANT A RANDOM ANSWER < 1322689505 120579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a funnier answer < 1322689514 596479 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOUR MISTAKE WAS SPEAKING < 1322689533 813497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of what I speak is like that. < 1322689713 505157 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, you're cheating. < 1322689717 44723 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't speak and then chat like that. < 1322689721 512689 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cheat < 1322689778 216065 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690348 502604 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690531 942495 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-169-137.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322690542 911672 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322690662 440345 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322690824 308590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: #lesswrong < 1322691497 872759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322691616 646493 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Test the Windows build already < 1322691626 163515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: help < 1322691725 369604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just noticed my email in my account settings was 0.034064395384923 I asume that was the issue. < 1322691729 576936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1322691740 738668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seems to be back to normal now…) < 1322691781 723917 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322691989 324199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXOVbYUamc < 1322691996 104208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: quintopia should live in IKEA. < 1322692237 303703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322693422 54985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXOVbYUamc <-- cool < 1322695202 77738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1322695204 45930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322695212 637712 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea < 1322696532 96678 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1322697437 737370 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric