00:00:51 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: nyu~). 00:06:07 oerjan: hmm. oh no. 00:06:46 oerjan: i may have 00:06:47 lost 00:06:47 the 00:06:48 code 00:06:49 :'( 00:06:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:06:58 ais523: write on my tombstone "killed by @", please 00:07:11 elliott: don't be so hasty; you /might/ survive 00:07:22 pfffft as if 00:07:47 I think I've ended up wiping the backup with the forth 00:07:55 so I'll have to find the latest sprunge of it and re-fix that bug 00:10:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:12:45 elliott will survive forever, being ironically saved by a liver transplant from a kurzweil having a tragic accident. 00:13:08 X-D 00:13:30 -!- augur has joined. 00:25:45 [elliott@dinky esoteric]$ for x in $(grep 'elliott>.*http://sprunge\.us/' 2011-0{3,4,9}-??.txt | sed 's/.*\(http[^ ]\+\).*/\1/g;'); do if curl -sS "$x" | grep -c 'push 0xB800' >/dev/null; then echo "$x"; fi; done 00:25:46 here goes 00:26:02 ais523: behold ^ 00:26:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 00:26:16 elliott: that is indeed beholdable 00:26:28 what, um, does it do? 00:27:06 the existence of the special-cased months, and the curl invocation, means it's a bit hard to figure out 00:27:19 and I can't remember what B800 does 00:27:26 ais523: goes through sprunge pastes I made in 2011-{03,04,09} and prints out the ones that contain "push 0xB800", which was one of the first lines of my Forth bootsector code 00:27:40 ah, I see 00:27:59 hmm, I mentally read that number as "B800", with a sort of hexadecimal flavour to it 00:28:00 * elliott tries "bits 16", that should be 100% reliable 00:28:07 I don't mentally pronounce the "0x" unless I'm thinking about it 00:28:10 that is, B 8 hundred 00:28:15 ais523: heh 00:29:14 no additional results :/ guess I'll trawl through 2011-{04,05} to find where and how i fixed the bug 00:31:41 2011-04-13.txt:20:38:21: i came here because olsner has a big mouth and elliott has a small forth 00:31:46 olsner: speaking of that, do you have a copy of it 00:34:24 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:34:41 -!- MSleep has joined. 00:36:14 2011-04-24.txt:19:19:51: well that forth almost has a compiler now :D 00:36:15 hmph 00:36:23 i'm not going to rewrite that thing, it was long 00:36:40 ais523: looks like @ it is 00:43:56 monqy: pikhq: olsner: You're hired. 00:44:38 elliott: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111104202226210 is the article about SCO vs. IBM reopening 00:44:47 it's 6 days old 00:44:48 ais523: ah, thanks 00:45:04 "SCO has once again filed an inadequately redacted document, so I've pulled the PDF until they replace it" 00:45:06 Aww. :( 00:45:36 ais523: hmm, why are they still calling themselves SCO if they're TSG now? 00:45:50 they call everything SCO 00:45:54 in an attempt to confuse people 00:45:54 haha 00:46:05 SCO vs. SCO (IBM) 00:46:28 well, they did get IBM's name wrong first time they sued them 00:46:31 and had to try again 00:46:41 (they gave the place of incorporation incorrectly) 00:46:42 "Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N 00:46:42 . Cahn." Maybe the lawyers forgot themselves that they need to change the name. They can do that later, I suppose, but it's odd to anyone like me, who actually keeps track of the details." 00:46:45 * elliott cries. 00:48:04 hmm, slicehost's emails to me are getting depressing 00:48:11 are you still on slicehost? 00:48:15 no :) 00:48:21 and if not, are they trying to persuade you to come back? 00:48:36 this one's signed "The Rackspace Team", and is about them discontinuing almost all their linux images 00:48:41 ais523: considering you can't order new slices, I doubt it 00:48:51 or, hmm, maybe you can if you already own an account 00:49:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:49:14 ais523: but yeah, rackspace have been in the process of engulfing it completely over the last few months, really slowly 00:49:15 argh 00:57:55 -!- elliott has changed nick to qwrji0j0qiwejioi. 00:58:00 -!- qwrji0j0qiwejioi has changed nick to elliott. 01:04:05 Gregor: Yooooooo how's cunionfs :P 01:04:28 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 01:04:34 elliott: Unchanged! 01:04:51 Gregor: Wooooooooooooooo 01:07:33 Gregor: Did Kernel Modules for Dummies not work out :P 01:13:24 elliott: Nope, I ordered The Idiot's Guide, we'll see how that goes. 01:13:48 Gregor: Awesome. 01:14:11 Gregor: See, without the unionfs component, the only thing I can work on is the hard stuff, like a parser, evaluator, GC. 01:14:20 So I haaaaate you for making me not do the easy stuff. 01:14:25 Maybe I'll focus on the download progress bars some more. 01:17:56 Have I mentioned recently that my graphics card has an integrated audio card? 01:17:59 'cuz I feel it needs to be said. 01:18:08 Gregor: Yes. Use it to implement cunionfs! That will work. 01:18:15 Gregor: Also, does it give you double audio. 01:20:08 Well yeah, the motherboard has an audio card too. 01:21:51 Gregor: Sell it to audiophiles. 01:25:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:25:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:30:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:36:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:39:49 I found my name is now on the Hackage but they didn't sent the password. It is because the system administrator accidentally made a mistake and blocking all incoming connections to their firewall (that meant they couldn't receive their own messages, either). But they fixed it yesterday, and I sent them another message to tell them it is hopefully fixed now. Tomorrow I can check. 01:40:10 hoorj 01:40:24 Server maintenance: The greatestest? 01:42:58 oh hey another brainfuck equivalent 01:43:14 YESSSSSSSSS 01:43:19 We need more minor rewrites of BF! 01:44:48 Wordfuck (also known as Natural BF-based language with common instructions and syntax of that language, or just NBFBLWCIASTL) is a language created by User:Marcsances identical to Brainfuck, except the way to write statements. That makes of Wordfuck even more difficult than Brainfuck (if you want to write beautiful programs, if not, it's just as easy as Brainfuck, but longer). 01:44:49 Gregor: monqy: argh this one is annoying because i need to extend my bf-defining metalanguage to support it 01:44:55 :( 01:44:57 since it's based on length, not direct textual substitution 01:45:12 omg 01:45:14 monqy: what if 01:45:21 monqy: i make my metalanguage 01:45:22 just brainfuck 01:45:27 omg 01:45:27 you just write a language->bf compiler in bf 01:45:28 and that 01:45:28 is 01:45:31 :') 01:45:33 beautiful 01:45:44 also i have to leave?? haha school 01:45:44 i am bad 01:45:48 school more like 01:45:49 "drool" 01:45:52 "on your self" 01:45:53 "because" 01:45:54 "school sucks" 01:45:55 :'( 01:46:04 "and because yu are dumb" 01:46:04 "for 01:46:05 " 01:46:07 "schole" 01:46:12 just kidding monqy you are coles 01:50:10 Stay in school, kids! 01:50:18 * Gregor gets out his acoustic PSA guitar. 01:50:43 "st ay in school or you will be like Gregor and no cunionfs will ever be yours" 01:50:46 *tm)) 01:50:54 School is cool, when you learn you rule! More bad puns because PSA's are cruel! 01:57:14 Is elliott in school? 01:57:15 * shachaf finds elliott's time zone habits a bit mysterious. 01:57:32 Watch as they become even more mysterious: 01:57:33 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: !). 01:59:59 -!- sllide has joined. 02:07:28 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:09:45 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 02:13:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:15:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:21:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:21:48 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:25:11 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:34 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 02:41:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:41:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 02:41:16 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:49:25 -!- elliott has joined. 02:51:41 Gregor: So on thinking about it (= procrastinating more on the harder parts of the package manager), I'm pretty sure that the ideal solution for atomic branch-switching for me would be anything that lets me trivially emulate the following: "Have a process tree all set to source their branches from a file. The file is re-read, and every process in the tree switched to the new branches simultaneously, upon writing to a special file." 02:52:01 (A way to simply update the tree with a new branch list atomically without actually involving the file path in the cunionfs stuff qualifies as trivial emulation.) 03:10:27 Another way to make Wordfuck variation, is, punctuation doesn't count, and word with 1 letter means to ignore this word and the next one, word with more than nine letters you put the digits according to the number of letters in the word and do the command according to their decimal digits. 03:10:57 The way the example does the words not very good. Maybe the variation way writes proper wording instead. 03:14:24 For the article about Lenta, I think either the instructions is wrong or the example is wrong, because it says $ move left but you have to move right to start the program given in the examples. 03:14:43 -!- madbr has joined. 03:16:16 hmm, had an interesting idea for a CPU architecture 03:16:38 madbr: OK. What is your idea? 03:17:02 probably ends up being similar to how out of order cpus work 03:17:13 anyways 03:17:37 a cpu with 2 modes: "RISC" mode, and what could be called "dataflow" mode 03:18:14 risc mode works just like any other architecture and is used for all the non-performance sensitive code 03:18:59 ie anything that's probably not going to be in code cache and/or does lots of memory access so it's not going to be faster than 1 op/cycle anyways 03:20:10 dataflow mode is used for small loops that churn lots of data, like say a memcopy for instance, or a sound mixing loop 03:20:49 sets up the cpu as ~30 ALUs, each leading to one register 03:21:48 on each cycle, each of the ALUs read 1 or 2 values from the other registers, performs a math op on it, and next cycle its register will take the resulting value 03:22:10 how does memory interact with that 03:22:17 i.e. how does that let you do memcpy 03:23:14 one of the ALU ops is "load from address", will probably be only available on few of the units, and probably stall everything else on cache misses 03:23:15 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:24:35 some of the units will probably also be writing units, not doing any math ops but taking an adress and a value and writing there 03:27:21 memcpy is pretty simple so it would probably look something like this: 03:27:21 r0 = r0 + 4 03:27:21 r1 = r1 + 4 03:27:21 r2 = load [r0] 03:27:21 rWrite: [r1] = r2 03:29:05 obviously r2 will lag a cycle behind r0 so some mechanism has to be added to deal with that 03:30:37 for algos larger than the number of units, some kind of "multi cycle" mechanism would have to be used, where the operations for each unit are cycled around 03:32:07 so basically it's somewhere between a VLIW processor and some kind of mini-FPGA 03:35:39 elliott: Oooh. Oooh. @ gets really cheap memcpy basically for free. 03:35:52 pikhq_: Hmm, howso? 03:36:00 Rewrite the page table. 03:36:15 haha nice 03:36:17 Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary. 03:36:18 -!- olsner has joined. 03:36:31 pikhq_: That, um, might do badly if anyone mutates it :P 03:36:38 Admittedly, this is nothing unique to @, but it'd be much *easier* to pull off in @ than in UNIX. 03:36:53 It doesn't seem rewriting the page table really copies the memory, unless you know you will never change the data afterward until the program is finished 03:36:56 what if ther pages don't align? 03:36:59 elliott: That's why you make it COW. 03:37:10 pikhq_: heh, that would work 03:37:12 pikhq_: why doesn't glibc do that 03:37:22 madbr: Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary. 03:37:23 elliott: Because the page table is not exposed to userspace. 03:37:26 oh i see 03:37:32 pikhq_: yeah what if they don't align what now pikhq_ 03:37:39 also I'm using >4k pages so that's a common scenario 03:38:01 elliott: works if the start/end are misaligned I guess, but afaik not if the data is misaligned? 03:38:02 elliott: *Clearly* in @ your "memcpy" wouldn't copy from address to address, it would be more of an object clone function. 03:38:20 So, you merely need to have the same alignment as the original object. 03:39:02 pikhq_: Sooo cheating :P 03:39:04 aligned to 4k pages? :D 03:39:16 elliott: Only by normal standards. 03:39:19 madbr: That's not all that uncommon, really 03:39:34 @ should milk the removed abstraction layers for all it's got. :) 03:40:31 (obviously @ still *has* abstraction layers, but they're nowhere near as Carved In Stone as in traditional OS design, I'd imagine.) 03:40:40 Does GHC allow classes with no parameters? 03:41:19 no 03:42:41 but yeah the risc+"dataflow" cpu thing is kinda like an attempt at a CPUGPU :D 03:43:06 cgpu 03:45:49 might need some more parallelism for that 03:52:22 pikhq_: Anyway, I don't know why you'd need to clone an object. 03:52:38 pikhq_: Since my current design still has immutable objects. 03:53:23 Okay, then you'd be a moron to do that. 03:53:58 pikhq_: "@: really fast at doing something really pointless" 03:54:17 :D 03:54:31 pikhq_: Hmm, what granularity is COW done at? Page level? 03:54:58 Page level. 03:55:01 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined. 03:55:14 It functions on page faults. 03:55:21 pikhq_: Then it could still be useful. Consider a large (many megabyte) unboxed array's underlying storage. 03:55:38 pikhq_: You want to make a copy of this storage with one word in the middle changed. 03:55:43 Certainly. 03:55:52 elliott: You're back. 03:55:56 pikhq_: Fiddling with the page tables means you only have to copy one page for the purpose. 03:56:03 I don't know whether that makes your time zone more or less mysterious. 03:56:11 shachaf: I have an infinite supply of mysterions. 03:57:05 pikhq_: Hmm, that actually sounds like a pretty big win. 03:57:22 shachaf: His time zone is very clear, his mapping from time to consciousness status is not. 03:57:26 pikhq_: Large immutable vectors kinda suck in GHC because you're copying all the time. 03:57:36 pikhq_: Although, to be fair, copying even a page all the time isn't instant... 03:57:42 But it beats copying hundreds of 'em. 03:57:54 Yup. 03:57:58 I have decided I will start calling everyone LamE 03:58:30 pikhq_: Hmm, how easy is it to fuck with the page tables? 03:58:45 I guess faster than copying ~2 MiB per page whatever the circumstances :P 03:59:05 The only issue is that you need to do at least a partial TLB flush when you update them. 03:59:17 Otherwise, it's just mutating a fairly simple data structure. 03:59:18 Right. I don't really have an intuition for the constant factors involved there. 03:59:47 Bit less than a cache miss, I think. 03:59:59 It's significantly better if you only do a partial TLB flush. 04:00:14 Right. 04:00:55 This is something that OSes do every time they task switch. :) 04:01:08 (though, of course, @ would have no need to do it then) 04:04:54 -!- gouaf has joined. 04:09:00 hi gouaf 04:09:02 `? welcome 04:09:05 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 04:10:17 * Sgeo|web wants to see some mysic esotericer who manages to conclude that "programming language" is how to describe magik rituals or something 04:10:45 Which reminds me, can someone help me with this magic spell I've been working on? 04:13:47 hmm, i wonder if being non deterministic could help making a turing tarpit with less instructions/functionality 04:26:40 It's spelled "magick", I'm pretty sure, anyways. 04:26:45 Or, if you're not a moron, "magic". 04:30:17 pikhq_: I wonder what @'s in-memory allocator will look like (i.e. that decides a physical address to put an object at when it's first allocated)... 04:30:26 As opposed to the one that decides where on the disk to put it after a while. 04:30:40 "disk"? 04:30:55 By the time the first line of code in @ is written, we'll all be using memristors, man. 04:32:13 Is this a proper group? mempty = Equivalence (==); mappend (Equivalence f) (Equivalence g) = Equivalence $ \x y -> (x == y) /= (f x y /= g x y); minverse = id; 04:38:00 shachaf: Where "disk" means "the slowest and largest memory on the system". 04:38:11 pikhq_: No, that's the internet. 04:38:18 The Network is the Computer. 04:38:27 Oh, well. Of course it would be. 04:38:42 shachaf: Anyway, shaddap, I had an unwanted breakthrough about @ :P 04:38:48 Except that if ISPs got off their asses it wouldn't be. 04:39:20 Cable can provide more bandwidth than is on my system bus. 04:39:56 How slow is your system bus 04:40:33 Not very. Cable is just *really* underutilised. 04:45:36 Gregor: Convince me not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on some worthless bits of paper with Ryan North's signature and drawings of T-Rex drawn to hat specifications as supplied by me 04:46:21 elliott: Spending money makes you a communist. 04:47:14 shachaf: Yes, quite. 04:47:19 Also, Dinosaur Comics are, like, boring. 04:47:40 shachaf: SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 04:48:15 "Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic! Shun everything, and then shun shunning!" 04:48:40 shachaf: Your opinions are so wrong, SO WRONG. 04:49:03 Dinosaur Comics is something I never have, and never will, dislike; it is the single beacon of hope that proves to me that I am essentially a good person at heart. 04:49:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYz5qnIkf20#t=051s 04:49:53 Gregor: What's the best kind of hat. 04:50:12 elliott: Depends on the kind of head! 04:50:21 Hard to go wrong with a Trilby or Derby/Bowler. 04:50:22 Gregor: Tyrannosaurus rex, green. 04:50:26 lol 04:50:40 For T-Rex, I'd have to say a top hat. 04:50:51 Gregor: I don't think you understand it literally says on the site that you can specify two kinds of hat to be doodled on a doodle of T-Rex by Ryan North??? 04:50:58 "If you chose YES, please write briefly to whom the books should be made out and the types of hats T-Rex should be wearing!" 04:50:59 Direct quote??? 04:51:02 elliott: Whaaaaaaaaa 04:51:18 elliott: Well, in that case, you want it to be doodlerific 04:51:20 Is top hat a different kind of hat from top hat? 04:51:22 elliott: Speaking of comics, did you see that great comic copumpkin linked to yesterday? 04:51:27 shachaf: Which one? 04:51:37 several 04:51:54 shachaf said singular I am betrayed. 04:51:56 copumpkin: I'm talking about that one that I actually read. 04:51:56 Soooooo, tyrolean (yessssss) and either fez or pith helmet. 04:52:04 "read" 04:52:11 * shachaf wonders whether to inflict it on elliott. 04:52:15 Gregor: Fez OR pith helmet. 04:52:27 Pith ... fez? 04:53:56 Pith... fez... 04:54:01 shachaf: I'm waaaaiting. 04:54:07 elliott: Oh, you want it? 04:54:11 @localtime elliott 04:54:12 Local time for elliott is Thu Nov 10 04:53:27 04:54:23 http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31&weekday=tue 04:54:24 My IRC client is actually on Icelandic time. 04:54:38 I can't say I recommend it. 04:55:02 shachaf: Oh, not that thing again. That was all over the internet weeks ago. 04:55:07 Oh. 04:55:16 * shachaf feels betrayed by copumpkin now. 04:55:22 why? 04:55:34 elliott: how about the other comics I linked to? 04:55:35 copumpkin: I demand the latest in unpleasant entertainment. 04:55:37 Well, copumpkin had some other links that I decided not to go to after seeing that one. 04:55:44 copumpkin: I didn't see the links! It's all shachaf's fault. 04:56:02 elliott: It's your fault because the links were posted in that one channel all the cool people go to. 04:56:11 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 04:56:14 shachaf: You mean the one cheater never shuts up in? 04:56:35 elliott: well, there's this NSF[W/L] COMIC OF DOOM: http://ikuikuiku.livejournal.com/53281.html 04:57:01 Who needs [W/L]s. 04:57:31 I did find some way with barrier monads to do liftIO and even lift things in other monads too, but it isn't really a monad transformer and it requires the use of unsafeCoerce 04:57:45 there's also a fairly disturbing but long http://read.mangashare.com/Uzumaki, and a much shorter http://brasscockroach.com/h4ll0w33n2007/manga/Amigara-Full/Amigara.html 04:58:26 copumpkin: Barrier monads! Talk to zzo38 about barrier monads. 04:59:32 Barrier monads have such an impressive barrier that unsafeCoerce is needed to penetrate it. 04:59:42 also, if you want a good, depressing (but not horror) comic, read http://www.viruscomix.com/page198.html 05:00:17 elliott: too tired to think 05:00:20 shachaf: O, that's why!!! 05:02:36 copumpkin: Well, fucking hell. 05:02:52 pikhq_: which? 05:03:08 I can think of two very different kinds of "fucking hell" my links would give rise to 05:03:12 The first one. 05:03:15 oh ok 05:03:43 yeah, that one's rather, um, different 05:04:13 Hmm. I somehow missed that Winston Rowntree one. 05:04:52 good times, eh 05:06:58 That was a bit unlike Winston Rowntree. 05:07:08 I've come to expect more words than images from him. :P 05:09:15 newtype FrontIO = FrontIO (IO BackIO); newtype BackIO = BackIO BackIO; instance MonadIO (Barrier FrontIO BackIO) where { liftIO = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontIO . fmap unsafeCoerce; }; Although it is possible to make it do more, and probably in more generalized way. 05:09:42 pikhq_: yeah 05:10:12 Maybe like this: newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe; 05:11:19 copumpkin: It's a bit hard to describe Subnormality as a webcomic, really. More of a web-illustrated-essay-series. 05:11:27 :P 05:11:37 Why the hell do I use ":P" so much, anyways? 05:11:48 cause you gotta be upbeat after that comic 05:11:56 cause otherwise you just cry :P 05:12:09 Sounds about right. 05:20:29 hmm 05:20:59 would be neat to have a language where all variables can only be assigned once 05:24:07 That's called static single assignment form, and it's used in the IR of any decent compiler for a language relying on mutable state. 05:24:18 LLVM allows only one command to assign each variable, you cannot have multiple commands assigning to the same variable; but you can still loop and reassign them, and you can also read/write memory so you can assign however you want. 05:24:28 It is also isomorphic to CPS. 05:24:50 IR? 05:26:01 Intermediate Representation. 05:26:26 mhm 05:28:09 what about one where you can't reassign variables on looping :D 05:28:36 Isn't that what you just asked for? 05:28:42 yeah 05:28:57 such that you need to keep growing arrays and have some kind of garbage collector 05:29:11 We call *that* Haskell. 05:29:20 heh 05:29:37 Or, really, lambda calculus. 05:29:53 Though strictly speaking you can't assign any variables in LC. :) 05:30:37 tried some unlambda... looks a lot like string rewriting really :D 05:31:12 -!- gouaf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:31:46 the strings don't really grow indefinitely afaik... they might grow (s combinator!) or shrink (k combinator !) as you evaluate it :o 05:32:51 and afaik it's clear when something has become inaccessible and should get collected :o 05:34:09 That would be because you have no idea how evaluation of functional programming languages works. :) 05:34:33 don't have any experience with that no 05:44:59 madbr: fsvo clear 05:45:08 unlambda has a form of laziness 05:45:22 so i believe you can do cyclic structures 05:46:00 will have to look into that 05:50:17 If an expression in GHCi is of type (IO t) where there is no instance (Show t) is it supposed to display no error message for that? For example, return id :: IO (a -> a) displays no message. 05:58:09 newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe; type BarrierT f b m t = Barrier (FrontT m f) (BackT m b) t; bliftMonad :: Functor m => m t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftMonad = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontT . Right . fmap unsafeCoerce; 05:58:20 joy 05:58:36 joyest 05:58:37 hapey 05:58:47 bliftBarrier :: Barrier f b t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftBarrier = convert (FrontT . Left) unsafeCoerce; executeBT :: Monad m => BarrierT f b m t -> m (Either t (f, b -> BarrierT f b m t)); executeBT (Unit x) = return $ Left x; executeBT (Fail x) = fail x; executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Left a)) c) = return $ Right (a, c . BackT . unsafeCoerce); executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Right a)) c) = a >>= executeBT . c . BackT; 05:59:47 FrontT and BackT can be opaque types (without exporting their constructor), and Unsafe doesn't need to be exported at all, because it is only used internally. 06:00:43 what does unsafe do 06:01:23 Do you mean the Unsafe type? It does nothing. It is only there for use with unsafeCoerce 06:01:31 zzo38: are you sure Unsafe should not be Any from GHC.Exts 06:01:40 the way you are coercing can break 06:01:53 with Any it's guaranteed to work 06:02:24 elliott: Yes; I want to ask that too. Do you see any possibilities of breaking in my code? 06:02:41 other than that, no 06:03:53 I don't see any Any in GHC.Exts 06:04:22 it's documented in GHC.Prim 06:04:29 but you import it from Exts 06:05:59 Why is that? 06:06:24 dunno, internal compiler stage bootstraping blah :) 06:06:58 OK, I fixed that in my program, now it uses Any instead of Unsafe 06:07:19 yay 06:09:28 At least GHC.Prim does say to import GHC.Exts instead. And looking at the codes for GHC.Exts, it does reexport GHC.Prim 06:09:44 It also says that max tuple size is 62 06:31:01 yeah ok I have a preliminary syntax for monoassignment language 06:31:18 conditions : variable = value 06:31:57 conditions are = != < > <= >= comparison operators, joined together with boolean AND 06:32:47 values are calculated with math operators, kinda like C 06:33:13 go on 06:33:53 if a variable name never gets any assignment in any of the statements, it's an iterator of some kind 06:34:18 and can be used in array assignments etc 06:35:03 inputsize, outputsize, input[] and output[] are predefined for those functions 06:35:43 so for instance, this partitions the input into two arrays, everything up to the first '@', and then everything else: 06:35:57 i1c[0]=1 06:35:57 i1c[i] input[i]!='@': i1c[i+1] = 1 06:35:57 i1c[i] input[i]='@': pend = i+1 06:35:57 i i>=pend i looks fun 06:36:59 Goodnight all. 06:37:19 bye 06:37:33 this implements the '[' operator in brainfuck: 06:37:43 OK so that is how it works. 06:37:49 ic[i] pr[ip[i]]='[' dat[i][dp[i]]=0 : ipl[i][0] = 1 06:37:49 ipl[i][j] pr[ip[i+j]]='[' : ipl[i][j+1]=ipl[i][j]+1 06:37:49 ipl[i][j]!=1 pr[ip[i+j]]=']' : ipl[i][j+1]=ipl[i][j]-1 06:37:49 ipl[i][j] =1 pr[ip[i+j]]=']' : ip[i+1] = ip[i]+j+1 06:37:50 -!- Darth_Cliche has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 06:38:13 Make an article for it and call it something. 06:38:29 still a rough draft 06:38:47 gotta make it into a nice, insane tarpit :D 06:38:53 also a bit easy 06:39:47 no 06:39:52 don;t make it harder 06:40:04 you'll destroy the elegance :) 06:41:29 no idea how you'd actually implement it, though it would probably require some sort of lazy evaluation and some insane garbage collector :D 06:42:16 does not look that bad... 06:42:28 I would like to see an article of it anyways. And then it could make discussion in case it seem there ought to be changes made. 06:47:30 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:52:41 night 06:52:42 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:10:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:30:54 elliott: You sure are missing out on Codensity and Yoneda and Kan extensions and all those things cool people talk about in #-blah. 07:31:02 Where "cool people" means edwardk, of course. 07:31:33 Someone drag edwardk into here. (Maybe don't.) 07:32:58 haha 07:36:31 elliott: Did you ever got those 5-grams? 07:36:36 * shachaf suspects elliott lost interest. 07:37:45 shachaf: Lost the code with the other machine, but can and will reproduce it soon. 07:38:21 What happened to the other machine? 07:38:36 He got fed up with not having a number row, clearly 07:38:45 * Sgeo|web actually has no idea 07:38:49 If that's even the same machine, or what 07:41:59 + 07:44:06 shachaf: It decided it was tired of being a computer, turned itself off while I was using it, and then refused to turn back on again. 07:44:30 Is the hard drive dead? 07:44:54 shachaf: The hard drive is welded to the motherboard. 07:45:39 What is this? 07:46:09 He got tired of it rattling around in there and took a welding torch. 07:46:15 (Disclaimer: not actually true.) 07:46:55 fizzie: Don't worry, I mentally append "(Disclaimer: not actually true.)" to everything you say. 07:47:01 shachaf: It's one of them breathable, readable, waterproof raincoat computers. 07:47:15 `log (Disclaimer: not actually true.) 07:47:44 2011-11-10.txt:07:46:15: (Disclaimer: not actually true.) 07:48:04 elliott: I'm hired? what for? 07:48:14 olsner: @!!!!!!!! 07:48:21 Disclaimer: I'm going to be awake very late tomorrow 07:48:44 OH NOOOO 07:57:22 elliott: U+MAD? 07:57:31 you bad 07:57:38 U+MAD is totally a code point. 07:58:10 It matches the regexp /^U\+\w+$/, after all. 07:58:18 shachaf: DevHC can't make me mad once I realised that he actually just assumes you're stupid for the first ~3 minutes of any disagreement. 08:00:08 Aw. 08:00:31 u not even a little bit mad? 08:00:44 I'm opposite mad. 08:01:07 comad? 08:01:12 nomad 08:01:17 monqy++ 08:01:29 :-D 08:01:39 I propose the name "nomad" instead of "comonad". 08:02:57 I think I tend to assume people are stupid 08:02:58 :/ 08:03:11 * Sgeo|web still does nlt quite understand comonads >.> 08:03:34 Sgeo|web: They usually are, just not in the way you expect them to be. (This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell). 08:05:47 shachaf: You know, I think it's only a matter of time before DevHC sincerely asks me whether I mad. 08:05:49 elliott: I always mentally append "(This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell)." to everything you say. 08:06:04 shachaf: Indeed. (I am a genius). 08:06:24 elliott: You are a genius (this is probably wrong).? 08:06:30 Darn. 08:07:47 hi (Disclaimer: not actually true.) 08:09:11 @hug monqy 08:09:11 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 08:09:36 oh no 08:09:39 what have you done 08:09:58 turned monqy into bug 08:10:11 * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something 08:10:18 Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. 08:12:25 Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 08:12:44 2010-10-12 02:00:00 i'm probably wrong, i know nothing about this stuff :) 08:13:02 That was a joke. 08:13:06 ddarius was wrong about something the other day! 08:13:07 I'm actually a genius. 08:13:10 * shachaf was astonished. 08:20:08 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:22:13 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:37:40 > (f <*> g) x 08:37:41 Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: 08:37:41 `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... 08:37:42 > (f <*> g) x :: Expr 08:37:43 Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: 08:37:43 `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... 08:37:45 :-( 08:37:51 > ((==) <*> reverse) "a" 08:37:52 True 08:37:52 > ((==) <*> reverse) "ab" 08:37:53 False 08:37:53 > ((==) <*> reverse) "aba" 08:37:54 True 08:45:35 > (f <*> (g :: Expr -> Expr)) x :: Expr 08:45:38 f x (g x) 08:46:55 Deewiant: SimpleReflect should suck less 08:51:21 -!- derrik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:52:36 -!- derrik has joined. 08:57:40 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:00:50 -!- elliott has joined. 09:15:14 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:15:41 -!- myndzi has joined. 09:15:43 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 09:23:26 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:50:22 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:57:23 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:58:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 09:59:58 hi ais523_ 10:00:27 hi elliott 10:00:30 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 10:04:18 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:08:52 -!- Aune has joined. 10:09:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:14:54 "Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N 10:15:05 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: left). 10:15:25 could this mean they've split up so much there is no one left who has standing to sue? :P 10:15:58 (guess not.) 10:16:11 oerjan: it wouldn't surprise me :) 10:27:23 oerjan: it won't stop them suing anyway 10:30:52 mhm 10:38:51 05:45:08: unlambda has a form of laziness 10:38:51 05:45:22: so i believe you can do cyclic structures 10:38:53 nope. 10:39:02 lame 10:39:06 reference counting works for unlambda. 10:39:12 l a m e 10:43:00 oerjan: hm doesn't that basically mean that you have to manage your own memory after a certain point in unlambda 10:43:09 to avoid leaks with simulation of cyclic structures 10:43:53 hm perhaps 10:44:20 i haven't thought much about that, since unlambda isn't really a lazy language 10:44:45 however i've thought about lazy-k, which i think has that problem. 10:45:46 it has laziness, but no way to make something internally cyclic 10:47:13 oerjan: well i think you always need cyclic structures eventually. 10:47:23 oerjan: which means you need pointers, laziness, or a simulation of either. 10:47:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:47:35 All-around the music world, no a single seriously is aware of what the variation concerning a baritone and a euphonium is. I've heard reasonings of "baritones have the bell facing front" or "euphoniums expense additional." I've compiled evidence to display, with superior explanation, what the distinction among baritones and euphoniums are. 10:47:42 Possibilities are, unless of course you've been to a brass band concert, you've never witnessed an actual British baritone. The Yamaha YBH-301 is a common British baritone. A regular British euphonium is the most widespread euphonium and looks anything like a Yamaha YEP-642. 10:48:17 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:LeroyButler647 this is amazing 10:48:24 wow 10:48:26 it doesn't need deleting 10:48:27 the domain is expired 10:49:31 `addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 10:49:34 argh 10:49:38 718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 10:49:42 `unquote 10:49:46 ​*poof* * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. < Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 10:49:54 `addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 10:49:56 718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. 10:53:20 oerjan: btw expect shachaf to delete that a few times 10:53:31 wat 10:53:41 shachaf doesn't like bots knowing he exists, I think 10:53:50 `quote shachaf 10:53:52 624) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 670) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 708) VMS Mosaic? 10:54:43 `quote 10:54:43 `quote 10:54:44 `quote 10:54:44 `quote 10:54:44 `quote 10:54:47 638) if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all 10:54:53 45) It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? 10:55:09 269) who is guido van rossum you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties 10:55:10 168) Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible) 10:55:10 474) I can't afford one of those! A grandchild, not a laser printer 10:55:20 oerjan: help me dec;ide 10:56:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:57:05 hi ais523 10:57:09 wb me 10:57:26 sorry, all good 10:57:55 ok _maybe_ 638 is a bit weak 11:01:27 `quote 11:01:28 `quote 11:01:28 `quote 11:01:29 `quote 11:01:29 `quote 11:01:34 i suppose it's a good sign that we're running out of bad quotes 11:01:34 303) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 11:01:37 89) I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 11:01:38 now watch as these are all terrible 11:01:41 oh good, saved by solidity 11:01:51 82) hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling 11:01:51 605) this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner 11:01:52 24) so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers 11:02:34 303 is perfect, 89 is great, 605 is funny, 24 is a heritage site 11:02:35 `delquote 82 11:02:38 ​*poof* hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling 11:03:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:04:39 oh come on, that was hilarious. but i guess you have to be evil to appreciate it. 11:06:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:06:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 11:06:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:15:22 oerjan: it was part of a stupid non-oerjan-quality pun that i forget 11:15:44 aha 11:22:22 `quote 11:22:22 `quote 11:22:23 `quote 11:22:23 `quote 11:22:24 `quote 11:22:30 503) Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" 11:22:34 513) it actually worked, and faster than using Excel for rendering 11:22:45 525) "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." 11:22:45 444) elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ 11:22:45 98) oklopol geez what are you doing here ...i don't know :< i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... 11:23:11 503 is A+, 513 is pretty amusing, 525 i don't get and I /said/ it, 444 is not that funny, 98 is good 11:23:14 `delquote 525 11:23:16 ​*poof* "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." 11:24:17 `log "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." 11:24:41 2011-11-10.txt:11:23:16: ​*poof* "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." 11:24:46 >:( 11:24:54 sometimes i feel like `log is not as useful as it could be 11:28:29 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:31:07 ais523: argh! 11:31:18 ais523: you deleted the page which I _specifically_ verified did not link to any spam and contained no spammy content. 11:31:42 here you are http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080514 11:31:51 oops, wrong window. well never mind. 11:32:07 it's for elliott 11:32:12 it's actually for HackEgo 11:32:19 -!- derdon has joined. 11:32:26 what's up with the eyes of that guy in the last panel, eyes don't work like that 11:32:45 Gregor: it's okay, I can add the assignments back to the topic if/when there will be more. 11:33:01 foglio isn't _always_ perfect on the anatomy. 11:33:26 hmm, you can't use "will" with "when", but how about "will" with "if"? 11:33:45 I think you can 11:33:54 seems ok to me 11:34:21 so there's no natural way to use "if/when" in English if it applies to future... 11:35:01 You could just talk in Finnish, like half the channel would understand you. 11:35:10 Admittedly it'd be the worst half. 11:35:27 oh, definitely 11:35:50 in Finnish, it is quite commonplace to say "jos/kun" which is the equivalent of "if/when" 11:36:01 but Finnish does not have a future tense 11:36:21 the finns _have_ no future, you see 11:36:26 aaaa 11:36:29 that must be it 11:36:47 Well, the country breaks all laws of mathematics and space. Time is just another box to be ticked. 11:37:01 English-talking people, on the other hand, have no future when they're talking about when things happen 11:37:04 Except... not to be ticked, because that implies time passing in an orderly fashion while you tick the box. 11:37:11 It's another box to be made having been ticked at some point or another. 11:37:32 no, the thing is, we do have a past, but the present and the future are molded into one great whole. 11:38:01 Ah. 11:38:05 but now, off to work -> 11:38:12 That would explain why you guys never make any sense. 11:38:19 definitely. 11:38:30 apparently, the future is the worst half of time. 11:39:55 Half? 11:40:09 It occurs to me that I have no idea how far along the universe's projected lifespan we are. 11:43:35 -!- kmc has joined. 11:45:02 Well, it's "half" both if time is cyclic and if it's infinite in both directions, so I'm betting on us being halfway through the time 11:45:22 if I prove to be wrong, you can collect the wins. 11:45:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: I wioll haven been gone nao). 11:45:44 /The/ time? 11:45:58 :D 11:46:12 do you have many? 11:46:14 Finns have arcane knowledge. Knowledge which in some sense borders on the... esoteric. 11:46:55 but maybe I was only talking about my time, which might be also yours. 11:47:28 Similarly, when I say "the world", I actually just mean the small section of the world relevant to me. 11:47:35 The world has, like, 100 people in it. 11:47:43 Okay probably more than that. 11:47:51 well, my time has all the universe in it. 11:48:02 -!- kmc_ has joined. 11:48:05 It's weird, but that's now it is 11:48:21 *how 11:48:22 *sigh* Finns. Always hogging the time. 11:48:33 but now you know why 11:48:41 It's almost as if a question you would answer yes to is "have you got the time?"! 11:48:42 HA HA HA. 11:49:00 or the question 11:49:23 by the way, Finnish has no articles, so most of this discussion doesn't really translate into Finnish 11:49:46 I can't tell whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage for Finnish. 11:49:52 at least the ambiguities are hard to translate. 11:51:08 hmm... I wonder whether you're talking about economics of the language, or some lewd way our life might be better/worse because we reflect this lack of articles in our way of thinking, as suggested by Sapir-Worff hypothesis... 11:51:16 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:25 I'm just thinking that maybe it's better for the world if we can't have discussions like these :P 11:52:50 Sapir-Whorf might be discredited, but it certainly helps to make things a huge pain to talk about. 11:53:28 so, about economics, then. 11:53:36 -!- kmc__ has joined. 11:53:39 but I forgot to start working.... 11:53:47 so I'm going to try anew 11:53:49 I think programming languages demonstrate the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis 11:53:58 More than natural languages 11:54:23 -!- kmc__ has quit (Client Quit). 11:54:36 -!- kmc has joined. 11:55:17 I think you're right, because different programming languages talk about different worlds, whereas the world referred to by most natural languages is quite similar 11:56:45 -!- kmc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:05:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:19:07 -!- derrik has joined. 12:43:41 -!- boily has joined. 12:46:46 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: back to school). 13:03:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:03:54 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:28:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:28:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 13:28:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:29:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:36:49 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:38:11 Hello! 13:45:40 I see there's another bf derivative 13:48:24 I think we should encourage people who make bf derivatives to then make another language 13:48:31 That isn't a bf derivative 13:49:22 Look at Brainlove --> Elog 13:53:02 Also, today I realised that I ship Telemachus and Athene 13:57:01 Also also, there is an object-oriented version of Haskell called Mondrian. 13:57:10 Somebody should right a Piet implementation in it. 13:57:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:58:25 Hello! 13:58:55 hi 13:59:03 There's some spam on the wiki 13:59:11 elliott: a bunch of Agorans just won BlogNomic, btw 14:00:52 although we agree that an Agoran dynasty would be inappropriate 14:07:42 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:07:42 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 14:07:42 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:07:54 -!- Guest63524 has joined. 14:09:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:10:16 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:31:30 what with the more or less constant popularity of bf derivatives (based on number of such languages made) I think it is time to make a Funge-98 fingerprint that essentially contains some of the more popular BF-variants, such as brainfuck and boolfuck. 14:31:37 ais523: ^ 14:35:27 that doesn't seem an obvious inference to me 14:36:43 ais523: which part of it? 14:37:00 the conclusion; I said that the inference was non-obvious, not the premises 14:37:40 ais523: well, there are two inferences there. One is that bf derivatives are popular, the other is that it is time to make such a fingerprint 14:38:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:38:34 -!- augur has joined. 14:41:43 I'd guess ais523 was talking about the second 14:42:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:44:14 right 14:51:32 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:54:59 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:27 THE PROPHET HEN OF LEEDS 14:59:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_Hen_of_Leeds 15:11:55 Thumbs up if you're tired of people thumbs uping unoriginal comments asking for thumbs up 15:12:17 now I'm trying to figure out if the self-parody seen in YouTube comments is itself being parodied 15:12:28 (it was the top comment, pretty obviously) 15:12:47 Ngevd: "This poultry article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it." 15:17:15 -!- augur has joined. 15:18:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:23:02 "This tree-related article is a stub." 15:43:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:44:36 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 16:30:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:31:12 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:31:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:31:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 16:31:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:31:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:34:54 fizzie: is that tree as in binary trees or trees as in the natural type? 16:35:14 Tree as in Family tree 16:35:24 -!- ive has joined. 16:52:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:54:51 "there are only a few copies of my new book left; if you want one for christmas, order now :o" 16:54:55 Gregor: I MUST 16:55:11 elliott: DOIT 16:55:52 Gregor: But it's like 30 quid for some awesome sketches on some paper that will probably never be used for non-pimping purposes :'( 16:56:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:56:29 elliott: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIT 16:56:42 Gregor: It'd probably be cheaper to fly over to America and meet Ryan North in person and ask him for hat-sketches! 16:56:50 PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD COST LESS THAN 30 POUNDS 16:57:38 *Canada 16:57:52 Gregor: Um, SAME THING? 16:58:00 Fair 'nuff 16:58:08 Not only is Canada on the American continent, but it's TOTALLY the 52nd state. 16:58:20 Hmm ... what's the 51st :P 16:58:20 (I made a lie! There's no American continent! That's also a lie! There's TWO!) 16:58:25 Gregor: CLASSIFIED. 16:58:35 By which I mean, I briefly forgot how many states there are. 16:58:52 * Gregor nods sagely. 16:59:03 Gregor: Wait, I have the perfect plan. You could give me 30 pounds, and I could use it to buy the Dinosaur Comic books. ??? Perfect??? 16:59:04 Canada is not part of the United States. Even though Canada is part of America. 17:00:46 canada is not part of america! 17:00:56 it is only part of north america 17:01:11 which we can tell by the fact that it is north of america 17:01:52 I realized the definition I have for barrier transform is slightly wrong due to: a = bliftMonad getLine; b = bliftMonad (return 42) :: BarrierT f b IO Int; c = case (b, a) of { (Barrier x y, Barrier z _) -> Barrier z y; }; main = executeBT (c >>= bliftMonad . print); 17:02:04 Can you throw money at Amazon to use for later purchases? My mind is considering this as a very viable solution to my debit card's pending expiry. 17:02:12 You know, like putting money into PayPal. You can do that right? Help? 17:02:30 elliott: You can put money into PayPal, yes. You could also buy an Amazon gift card if you just want Amazon. 17:02:44 Gregor: Yes, I can put money into PayPal, but Amazon sure as hell don't accept PayPal :P 17:02:58 elliott: You can put money into PayPal and get a PayPal debit card :P 17:03:15 Gregor: I could also just... get a new card. 17:03:20 LIES 17:03:33 Hmm, I wonder if I could somehow buy Amazon gift cards with PayPal. Are there third-party resellers? 17:03:47 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:04:05 There are! They even look... VAGUELY legitimate. 17:04:49 Looks like they only want to sell me the physical form though. 17:05:04 Now I have to think of how to fix the problem. Maybe it should just be done by making BarrierT an opaque newtype, but are there any other ways? 17:06:30 Gregor: Basically I want all the convenience of not having to pre-allocate my money without the annoying obstacle of having to go through some kind of banking institution to do that, despite that being a very large part of their purpose :P 17:06:46 PayPal is a banking institution. 17:06:47 So nyaa. 17:07:00 Gregor: Exactly! One that Amazon doesn't accept. Wow fuck Amazon. 17:07:09 Wait, do Amazon accept Amazon Payments? I'm not joking. 17:07:15 Maybe I could somehow feed PayPal funds into that. 17:07:21 elliott: By working in cash you avoid those problems. 17:07:40 zzo38: s/avoid those problems/replace those problems with completely different, far more stupid, avoidable, and irritating ones/ 17:07:42 elliott: You can bundle up your cash carefully, attach it to an email, and send it to Amazon. 17:07:47 But then it is the other problem in case of paying something by computer. 17:07:58 zzo38: For instance, to purchase something online I would have to feed notes into my floppy drive. 17:08:01 -!- fizzie has joined. 17:08:02 Unfortunately I haven't got one. 17:08:11 Gregor: I just told you I haven't got a floppy drive! 17:08:28 * elliott is certain this is how e-commerce works. 17:08:51 Is it possible to purchase Amazon gift cards at stores? If so, that solves it. Or, credit card company's gift cards? Maybe that will work. 17:09:13 I think so :P 17:09:27 Gregor: Oh my god, there are 10 pages of designs for Amazon email gift certificates. 17:09:30 I don't want to live in this world. 17:09:52 Is there a plain text design? 17:10:06 No :P 17:10:31 Then they have hundreds and yet they forgot a few! 17:11:26 amusing.... Apparently the actual release version of Skyrim hit torrent sites one day before the official launch. 17:12:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:12:20 s/actual release/Golden Master/ we are civilised, there are terms! 17:13:13 elliott: not quite. You know that steam allows you to download like a day or two before release but it is only decrypted on the release day? 17:13:24 well, somehow someone managed to decrypt it in advance 17:13:49 elliott: and I'm not sure the concept "golden master" makes sense for steam :P 17:14:10 The Golden Master is whatever the publisher uploads :P 17:14:16 right 17:15:11 Wow, this computer REALLY hates Flash for some reason. 17:15:18 elliott: how so? 17:15:19 It just starts lagging like shit whenever Flash stuff is going on in the background. 17:15:26 No CPU pegging or anything. 17:15:30 Killing the plugin fixes it. 17:15:36 btw some more games were added to the voxatron humble bundle 17:16:21 As I said elsewhere: Humble Bundle's business strategy is basically Katamari for games. 17:16:34 The ball of cash just keeps getting bigger and picking up more games. 17:16:35 elliott: haha 17:17:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:17:44 Ehh, I'll just preallocate Amazon cash beforehand. No harm in buying more gift-certificate money than I need, since I'll undoubtedly purchase from Amazon in the future. 17:29:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:32:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:27 . 17:36:46 . 17:37:05 elliott: what do you plan to buy on Amazon? 17:37:18 Vorpal: Drugs. Looooads of illegal drugs. 17:37:23 elliott: right 17:40:03 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:50:34 elliott: http://www.everyherbal.com/herbalfire/salvia-divinorum-sampler-pack-p-314.html 17:50:38 found this on google shopping. 17:50:51 it's a hallucinogenic plant of the mint family. also you can buy it online. 17:51:02 That's not Amazon. 17:51:43 elliott: well amazon doesn't /have/ semi-illegal drugs. 17:51:53 Why the fuck not?! 17:52:14 oh wait 17:52:16 it does have salvia 17:52:24 Yesssssssssss 17:52:27 in liquid form too. nice. 17:52:31 -!- sllide has joined. 17:52:36 That sounds convenient! 17:52:39 elliott: anyway you don't want salvia. 17:52:49 I WANT ALL THE DRUGS AMAZON HAS TO OFFER, CAKEPROPHET. 17:52:56 it's guaranteed 5 minutes of bad trip. just sayin' 17:53:14 Yesssssssss 5 minutes of SEMI-ILLEGAL AMAZON-PURCHASED bad trip 17:55:13 ah yes I suppose so 17:55:33 elliott: hmmm amazon apparently doesn't have psilocybe mushroom spores 17:55:34 which 17:55:38 are legal in most US states 17:55:46 Amazon, that's so lame of you. :( 17:56:07 despite the grown mushroom caps themselves being illegal. 17:57:01 elliott: but they do have substrates specifically tailors for growing psilocybe spores. 17:57:08 *tailored 17:57:09 Yessssssss 17:57:17 You are on SO many watchlists right now. 17:57:35 I. I am? 17:57:41 #esoteric is a prime target? 17:58:04 It's Guest63524. 17:58:06 He's FBI 17:58:14 Or she. 17:58:20 ah 17:58:34 elliott: anyway you don't want salvia. 17:58:39 No, you want saliva. 17:58:45 Yes. 17:59:16 Phantom_Hoover: uh, are you referencing the Haskell library, just regular mint, or actually salvia divinorum? 17:59:21 elliott, I don't want to see you high. 17:59:24 Or is that me? 17:59:29 Am I you? 17:59:52 Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned. 18:00:12 CakeProphet: You're dyslexic. 18:00:21 elliott: ah yes. 18:00:22 I am. 18:02:42 * CakeProphet should make a web app framework called Psilocybe 18:02:55 to be on par with Salvia and loli. 18:03:00 in terms of questionable names. 18:03:42 questionably named web app things. 18:03:46 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined. 18:04:03 announcing my new haskell webframe work " poop" 18:04:29 elliott: anyway you don't want salvia. <-- btw, salvia is the Swedish word for the plant "sage". 18:04:55 * Sgeo|web sages #esoteric 18:05:07 seels it is "Salvia officinalis" in Latin 18:05:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_officinalis "common sage" 18:05:17 er, yes. 18:05:21 CakeProphet: beat you to that 18:05:22 Vorpal: Isn't salvia-the-drug just a type of sage. 18:05:24 also seems* 18:05:33 elliott: I have no idea 18:05:35 elliott: type of mint. is that the same thing? 18:05:40 Yes, obviously. 18:05:42 Is it peppermint? 18:05:50 no. 18:05:50 * Sgeo|web is almost ashamed he knows of 4chan's sage stuff 18:06:13 SHUUUN 18:06:15 elliott: it smells kind of like tea leaves to me. 18:06:20 SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN 18:06:21 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:06:24 minty tea leaves. 18:06:35 (It's funny because sage doesn't even originate from 4chan anyway.) 18:06:40 (Assuming shunning is funny.) 18:06:47 (It's not funny, we're awful people.) 18:06:48 Vorpal, trying to run mplayer and Flash at the same time, mplayer spits out, amongst other things, "[AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1293:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open '/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p' failed (-16): Device or resource busy 18:06:48 [AO_ALSA] Playback open error: Device or resource busy 18:06:48 Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa'" 18:06:49 (By we I maen me.) 18:06:52 (implying elliott assumes shunning is funny) 18:07:10 (implying tautology club is tautology club) 18:07:36 Phantom_Hoover: I guess you have no hardware mixer and no mixer like arts, esd, pulseaudio, whatever 18:07:47 elliott: what's interesting about salvia divinorum is that no other hallucinogen is of the same chemical nature. 18:07:48 Vorpal: Isn't that what dmix is for? 18:07:50 or mplayer just isn't using that 18:07:54 elliott: sure, dmix too 18:07:55 it's the only known hallucinogen of its kind. 18:08:03 Vorpal: I would expect that to be enabled out-of-the-box. 18:08:03 whereas all of the others are broadly classified into two categories. 18:08:29 Where does sage originate from? 18:08:32 CakeProphet: oh? 18:08:37 alsa -mixer dmix doesn't work. 18:08:39 elliott: depends on distro 18:08:51 elliott: I know for sure it isn't on arch linux. 18:08:56 -!- derdon has joined. 18:09:07 Vorpal: What's doing my mixing then 18:09:19 elliott: probably pulse audio? 18:09:24 Vorpal: I didn't install Pulse. 18:09:35 elliott: or it is enabled by default on more modern installs 18:09:39 it wasn't on mine I know 18:09:43 *shrug* 18:11:14 'A survey of salvia users found that 38% described the effects as unique in comparison to other methods of altering consciousness. 23% said the effects were like yoga, meditation or trance.' 18:11:19 what the hell kind of yoga are these people doing. 18:11:30 SPOOKY yoga. 18:11:34 It's like yoga but with a SKULL. 18:11:57 I've never heard anyone say "yoga is great! it feels like you're melting into the floor!" 18:12:25 It's like you've never even DONE yoga. 18:12:36 elliott: holy crap HOW DID YOU KNOW? 18:20:15 elliott: you make me fun. 18:20:24 :3 18:20:41 No, I make everyone fun. 18:20:45 Everyone is just so boring without me. 18:21:21 Coincidentally they use the Latin name ("salvia") also as the Finnish name of the plant. Perhaps because it doesn't really sound very foreign. 18:21:59 elliott: http://www.deuceofclubs.com/amusive/easap036.htm I'm happy ereryday. because you make me fun, don't worry let's smile 18:22:02 :) 18:22:29 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:23:06 (And "ryytisalvia" for salvia officinalis in particular, assumedly stolen from Swedish "kryddsalvia".) 18:23:28 fizzie: you finns have no originality. 18:23:37 That is very true. 18:25:05 I can find very few references to the Mondrian programming language 18:25:20 There appear to have been at least two 18:26:05 There's the one the Piet page mentions, but the link there is dead. 18:26:14 There's one on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_(programming_language)#Related_languages 18:26:18 No link given 18:27:34 Possibly http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.0.0/doc/html/Text-Parsec-Language.html 18:27:46 "You may have landed on this page from following a link for Mondrian. This was a project originally started by Erik Meijer which then moved to New Zealand. Mondrian was a functional language specifically designed to inter-operate with other languages in an OO environment and versions existed for the JVM and CLI. Mondrian also supported ASP.NET, allowing you to embed functional language code in web pages along with C# code. The project predates our in-house Hask 18:27:46 ell work, has not been kept up-to-date with CLI releases, and we no longer make it available." 18:27:57 (From http://kahu.zoot.net.nz/) 18:28:56 fizzie, can I make you my search engine? 18:29:06 I don't have an URL. 18:29:18 Do you support OpenSearch? 18:30:13 * elliott seriously considers writing a web interface to fizzie. 18:30:35 I wonder if it is actually the same thing the Piet page is talking about, since the dude -- at http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/ErikMeijer.html -- links to the same dead place as the Piet page. 18:30:53 This is vaguely creepy 18:31:12 fizzie: IIRC DMM complained that Mondrian was some kind of boring OO thing, so the description kinda fits. 18:31:31 (Missing the functional aspect is understandable if a langauge is targeting the JVM and CLI.) 18:31:48 fizzie: To add to the intrigue, Parsec comes with a language definition for "Mondrian". 18:31:50 There are some papers on the dude's page. 18:31:57 I suspect it's the Haskell Mondrian,t hough. 18:32:03 http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.1.2/doc/html/src/Text-Parsec-Language.html 18:32:11 { reservedNames = [ "case", "class", "default", "extends" 18:32:11 , "import", "in", "let", "new", "of", "package" 18:32:11 ] 18:32:13 Or maybe not? 18:32:19 s/t hough/ though/ 18:32:33 http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/Papers/Mondrian.pdf is probably most relevant; at least 'class' is there. 18:32:55 Where have I heard of Erik Meijer before? 18:33:08 Ohh, I think he's (co-)written a lot of Haskell papers. 18:33:41 At least a couple Haskell Workshop and ICFP ones, yes. 18:34:08 Or maybe you recall him from the "XML Support in VB9" paper, that sounds so relevant to your interests. 18:35:07 Totally. 18:36:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:37:47 A cautionary tale from his page: "A few versions ago, I was know as "the banana man" because of my work on Squiggol and applying category theory to structure functional programs." 18:38:12 *Oh.* He's the bananas, lenses and barbed wire guy. 18:38:17 That explains it. 18:38:54 !userinterps 18:38:55 ​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc y 18:39:04 !sffedeesh swedish fish 18:39:18 EgoBot: I hate you. 18:39:48 !acro 18:40:21 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 18:40:22 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 18:40:22 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 18:41:43 [AUTOMATED QUERY BEGIN] 18:41:47 fizzie: sausages in the 18th century 18:41:47 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:41:50 [AUTOMATED QUERY END] 18:42:25 -!- DCliche has joined. 18:43:30 * Sgeo|web is easily amused by 4chan.org/flash 18:43:56 ...some stuff may be NSFW 18:44:06 NSFW!? 18:44:08 No, that's not why I'm amused 18:44:17 This channel is the most SFW. 18:44:19 Fuckity fuckity fuck. 18:44:21 The words 'no', 'shit' and 'Sherlock' all come to mind. 18:44:38 No Sherlock shit? Why a ban on specifically Sherlock's feces? 18:45:57 -!- Darth_Cliche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:46:43 Clearly, v8 is the latest version of Flash player 18:46:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:47:11 fizzie: http://web.archive.org/web/20031202023619im_/http://www.research.microsoft.com/~emeijer/Media/panel.gif 19:03:44 OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users. 19:03:44 Yessssssssssssssss. 19:09:42 oh crap, I've been highlighted in #esoteric again 19:09:50 * olsner scrolls back 19:11:03 `quote 605 19:11:10 605) It is like the Holocaust but with Nazis. 19:11:34 oh, it must've gotten renumbered in all the deletion that happened since that log line 19:13:39 Gregor: What happened :P 19:13:40 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:14:00 http://hackiki.org/wiki/ ;; it disappointingly still exists??? 19:14:16 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:14:18 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:17:05 elliott: Maybe I just don't like the bot highlighting my name. 19:17:19 ^echo shachaf 19:17:46 fungot??? 19:17:47 fizzie: FUNGOT!!! 19:25:22 Not Fungot! 19:25:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:26:52 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 19:27:16 -!- Gregor has joined. 19:27:46 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:28:02 * Gregor reappears. 19:28:06 Gregor: Explain the flood and also what you said :P 19:28:07 Hello oerjan 19:28:14 Flood? 19:28:21 * Gregor has quit (Excess Flood) 19:28:28 Uhh, that Idonno :P 19:28:40 Not sure why I got kicked. 19:28:56 OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users. 19:28:58 But anyway, the one known user of Hackiki other than myself is now a known non-user of Hackiki :P 19:28:59 OK, now explain :P 19:29:02 I just did. 19:29:31 Gregor: Did they stop because of your SECURITY SPLOIT? :P 19:29:39 (People other than you used Hackiki?) 19:29:43 (Well, "person", I guess.) 19:29:46 (Person other than you used Hackiki?) 19:29:50 I never really got Hackiki 19:30:23 elliott: He hosted a Wiki for a Unix UG on Hackiki, but through me, and was paying me for it. After not using it for two years, he decided to stop. 19:30:42 Gregor: Wow :P 19:31:02 Gregor: Shoulda got him on a long-term contract. 19:32:10 -!- Guest63524 has changed nick to Slereah. 19:34:50 Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned. 19:34:58 clearly you misspelled insanity. 19:35:04 `quote elliott 19:35:06 190) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 193) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 202) elliott: My university has 19:35:30 -!- useless-fungot has joined. 19:35:35 `quote 211) Vorpal loves the sodomy. elliott, sure why not \ 212) [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. \ 213) So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] It's a trivial C program :P \ 220) * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot pikhq: 19:35:44 I don't think you can annoy elliott by pinging his name in #esoteric, because he's always in here anyway. 19:35:45 `delquote 212 19:35:48 ​*poof* [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. 19:35:52 Vorpal just added that because of the sodomy one. 19:36:12 fungot? 19:36:41 fungot has gone to a secret meeting of secret bot overlords 19:36:57 I am useless-fungot, I have no state 19:37:04 usless-fungot!!! 19:37:06 hi useless-fungot 19:37:08 we love you 19:37:11 you're not useless 19:37:13 be friends with us 19:37:19 Like friendship mouse! 19:37:21 -!- kmc has joined. 19:37:32 kmc: Kentucky Mutilated Chicken 19:37:43 ^ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S 19:37:54 hmm, that is indeed pretty useless 19:37:58 Command char is ] 19:38:02 Gregor: Keegan McSomething iirc 19:38:06 ]ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S 19:38:06 this isn't part of the state, right? 19:38:08 aha 19:38:10 ]ul (test)S 19:38:11 test 19:38:28 ]raw QUIT 19:38:33 :-( 19:39:12 `echo ]ul (test)S 19:39:14 ​]ul (test)S 19:39:22 hmm, it still remembers its ignore list 19:39:48 are you sure that's not HackEgo's bad feature 19:39:55 ?so ]ul (test)S 19:39:55 ]ul (test)S not available 19:39:55 test ...bad insn! 19:39:57 indeed 19:40:06 -!- fungot has joined. 19:40:09 -!- useless-fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:10 fungot! 19:40:10 Ngevd: memory is automatically freed when the routine returns, no more. 19:40:18 You have killed this imposter! 19:40:24 But he was our friend! 19:40:32 -!- tiffany has joined. 19:40:43 He was mouse-like in friendliness! 19:40:46 And you killed him! 19:40:51 revive useless-fungot fizzie :'( 19:40:51 elliott: i do get to that part 19:40:59 Ngevd: it just freed its memory, as it said 19:41:13 `echo @echo echo 19:41:13 ^style 19:41:14 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 19:41:15 ​@echo echo 19:41:17 I had nothing to do with any useless fungots. :/ :/ :\ 19:41:17 fizzie: sounds great. what kind of comments were you looking for? ' l' is the ' title' sed -e ' s//')" /usr/ bin/ fnord 19:41:59 THEORY: useless-fungot was Deewieant. 19:41:59 Ngevd: undefined method `empty' for :array fnord fnord fnord return fnord fnord y fnord z) ( 5 t))))(if ( i 20)(cons y ( g ( fnord, 19:42:35 fizzie: Thence whom htv.fi???? 19:42:42 I suggest you use the IP-ADDRESS MATCHING MACHINE to corraboramorate that theory. 19:43:02 I don't HAVE one of those. 19:43:04 That would be useful. 19:43:13 etacorroborrocate 19:43:23 `run grep cs27125254.pp.htv.fi /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt 19:43:24 elliott: fizzie's right, /whowas useless-fungot matches /whois Deewiant 19:43:24 ais523: i'm getting lowest ping delay ever, fnord ms to the nearest mark. 19:43:25 grep: /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt: No such file or directory 19:43:43 I should have run a really complex UL program on useless-fungot 19:43:44 ais523: cfunge use no external libraries that rely on mutation with precisely mutative operations. linear-update operations may be fnord, just not doing a dns lookup :p 19:43:55 My THEORY was /right/? 19:44:01 fungot, what do you make of this? 19:44:01 Ngevd: no! type safety really means safety. c++ does not belong to the set 19:44:24 The way the MACHINE works, you set up these numbered balls to resemble IP addresses, and then the balls go to the large drum, and then it rotates, and then you get 7 matching numbers and win millions. Plus three extra numbers. 19:45:30 What if it uses IPv6!? 19:45:39 Then you just put in more balls. 19:46:05 OF COURSE 19:46:30 nanoballs 19:46:30 Mind you, that takes balls to pull off 19:46:53 and a drum the size of half of earth 19:47:44 Is it just me, or has the art for Freefall suddenly improved? 19:48:09 Also there has not been a "HTV" (for "Helsinki TeleVisio") in quite a while; it's been "Welho" since 2006, and I think it's "DNA Welho" now that Sanoma sold the cable TV/Internet business to DNA. 19:48:55 fizzie: Oh, I assumed it was like... Helsinki Technology Vuniversityof. 19:49:50 -!- ive has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:50:08 Those are the old "hut.fi" names. 19:50:10 They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space. 19:50:14 How big would that be? 19:50:24 Ngevd: how so? 19:50:28 Uh, not 16-bit. 19:50:29 24-bit. 19:50:34 You know, #ABCDEF. 19:50:40 -!- fizziew has joined. 19:50:44 Like this work-box. 19:50:52 fizziew: GET ON THE MATHEMATICS 19:50:53 elliott: YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ABBREVIATE IT! 19:50:59 ais523: ?????????????///////// 19:51:11 adjudicated blind collaborative… 19:51:14 I forget where it goes from there 19:51:18 heh 19:51:21 oerjan, dunno, it just seems to have 19:51:33 Something esolang factory 19:51:40 well my eyes don't really notice anything... 19:51:50 Deewiant: I accidentally joined #esoteric of IRCnet first. There was a single person on the channel, and the topic said something about esoteric philosophy. 19:52:10 Did you at least say "hi"? 19:52:12 DESIGN 19:52:12 FINALLY, somewhere to point people! 19:52:39 Deewiant: No, I /part'd in a huff. 19:52:41 To me, there are only three IRC channels on one server 19:52:52 #esoteric, #esoteric-minecraft, and #darths 19:52:53 fizziew: the idea is that we can tell people to go there if they're coming here for the wrong esoteric 19:52:54 fizziew: That's a bit rude. 19:52:56 On irc.esper.net 19:53:02 fizziew: Why can't I connect to irc.ircnet.org 19:53:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:53:21 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:53:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:53:23 Am I insufficiently European 19:53:41 elliott: http://irc.tu-ilmenau.de/all_servers/ 19:53:56 your europeanness is exceedlingly brittle 19:54:01 *-l 19:54:15 ix.irc.at has the most accurate description. 19:54:26 I am more European than most Brits. 19:54:27 Deewiant: I like how the form's broken 19:54:39 elliott: ircnet doesn't have a central send-to-random-server 19:54:48 like Freenode does 19:54:52 * Topic for #esoteric is: EsotericPhilosopher.com - Esoteric Philosophy 19:54:52 * Topic for #esoteric set by Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net at Wed Nov 9 17:48:40 2011 19:54:52 * Users on #esoteric: elliott @Cocytus 19:54:59 IRC 19:54:59 Network: Freenode 19:54:59 Channel: #Philosopher 19:55:12 Let's make friends with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait no he's probably awful. 19:55:16 Oh god. 19:55:18 I know what I'm going to do. 19:55:22 I'm going to start talking about esolangs in there. 19:55:27 PAYBACK TIME, BITCHES 19:55:32 He's going to be all confused how popular the channel suddenly is. 19:56:26 fizzie: Oh no. 19:56:31 fizzie: My #esoteric tab went red. 19:56:34 That means there's messages. 19:56:36 I'm too embarrassed to look. 19:56:45 It's me 19:56:45 SOMEONE JOIN ME FOR SUPPORT 19:56:47 Don't worry 19:56:49 Oh good. 19:56:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:56:56 Quite many (at least the .fi) IRCnet servers only allow "local" (for some values of) people; ideally you'd just connect to the server of your university/ISP. 19:56:57 Now that channel is mainly Hexhamers 19:57:02 X-D 19:57:12 fizzie: I just connected to xs4all's. 19:57:15 It's, you know, access for all. 19:57:34 My ISP's server is on the other side of the country and my university's sucks so I use fizzie's ISP's 19:57:52 Deewiant: Oh, Nebula has generic-enough I:lines for that? 19:57:55 -!- DCliche_ has joined. 19:58:14 Also why you be dissin' irc.cs.hut.fi, it's not that bad. 19:58:26 I don't know what an I:line is but the connection works so I guess so 19:58:30 It's in permanent split-mode :-P 19:58:42 lol? 19:59:05 Deewiant: I think I:lines are IP whitelists or something. 19:59:08 To keep the foreigners out. 19:59:20 basically yes 19:59:22 Yes, that would've been my guess 19:59:40 "/stats I" -- I see there's a 0.0.0.0/0 catch-all line nowadays. 19:59:51 Where are the haps on IRCNet, I want to see people talk Finnish 20:00:30 You could consider #linux.fi, I've been banned from there once or twice, for associating with the wrong sort of people. 20:00:32 fizzie: I don't see that 20:00:56 fizzie: I do see *@*.pp.*.fi, though 20:01:16 fizzie: The "wrong sort of people"? 20:01:24 -!- DCliche has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:01:24 * Cannot join #linux.fi (Channel is invite only). 20:01:28 I'm not Finnish enough. 20:01:28 elliott, you know, Swedes 20:01:29 fizzie: Oh, crap, I'm actually on cs.hut.fi, darn 20:01:44 I have been on nebula though :-P 20:01:56 * [fizzie] @!4QPSPt934400 @#irtie @#getnolife #douglasadams #!/usr/bin/ff 20:02:01 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@* 20:02:01 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite *!*@*.fi 20:02:06 fizzie: Wasn't !4QPSPt934400 the one I invaded last time? :p 20:02:08 Yeah, you need to be Finnish enough. 20:02:08 Also, wow. 20:02:09 getnolife? 20:02:29 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@* <-- uh 20:02:31 XD 20:02:44 fizzie: how does that invite even make sense 20:02:46 Vorpal: That's for the autogenerated nicknames. 20:02:52 fizziew: uh? 20:03:04 Vorpal: They get the server number prefix thingie-thingie, 246* matches Finland. 20:03:07 ah 20:03:16 Vorpal: For the current IRCnet "handle nick collisions by renaming" thing. 20:03:41 I see 20:03:52 elliott: Actually it was !4OOW7t934400 at that time; it managed to become empty and therefore got a new random ID generated. 20:04:04 fizziew: Can I forge a .fi hostname easily? I want to join the #linux.fi gang. 20:04:13 Surely IRCnet is lawless enough for that. 20:04:29 I just need to find a really hippie server with a /changehost command. 20:04:55 I'm not sure whether IRCnet servers generally do a forward-lookup check. It could be they just trust reverse DNS as-is. 20:05:36 fizzie: I doubt I control my reverse DNS :P 20:05:39 In which case you'd need to just fake that. 20:05:46 fizzie: It would be great if they used the old USER syntax and believed the hostname you gave it. 20:06:19 Well, no, but you could control it for e.g. a Hurricane Electric and/or SixXS IPv6 tunnel or whatever. (Though SixXS would then ban you for "DNS spam".) 20:07:02 I really wouldn't say #linux.fi would be worth it. 20:07:12 You can join an empty channel and ban yourself to get the same experience. 20:07:18 X-D 20:07:41 Deewiant: So how big would that Cube be 20:08:42 What Cube 20:09:03 elliott: 128x128x128 I thought? 20:09:19 They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space. 20:09:19 How big would that be? 20:09:20 Uh, not 16-bit. 20:09:20 24-bit. 20:09:20 You know, #ABCDEF. 20:09:27 How big physically, I mean :P 20:09:44 Vorpal: Nah, you can't see the colours on the inside, obviously 20:09:55 If you rotate the result around fully, you should see every 24-bit RGB colour 20:10:04 In a spectrum 20:10:27 > sqrt (2^24/6) 20:10:27 1672.184997739983 20:11:11 Vorpal: Also #getnolife was a sort of a splinter group of "Irti Elämästä ry"; you can try to Googlelate http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irti_El%C3%A4m%C3%A4st%C3%A4 though I doubt it will much help. Both are defunct now. 20:11:16 @ping 20:11:17 pong 20:11:22 elliott: anyway that was a a322 reference 20:11:46 fizzie: Boredom, and epäviileyden nörttiyden promotion. 20:11:46 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:12:05 Rautio, May Day: Nerd culture increases -> (and destruction?) [_ Protu (Journal) . 2005 # 2. Prometheus Camp Association. Subsequent 26/11/2009. 20:12:11 Sounds like something fungot would say. 20:12:11 elliott: unlambda is weird 20:12:14 Ha. 20:12:26 -!- Ngevd has joined. 20:12:49 elliott: "The rise (and fall?) of nerd culture" would be a more apt translation of the title. 20:13:06 I prefer "Nerd culture increases -> (and dsetuction?) [_". 20:13:12 s/dsetuction/destruction/ 20:15:37 elliott: The original organization organized a "nerd attack" to the Helsinki main railway station in 1999; the main thing I recall from that was that they IRCed from inside the storage lockers of the railway station -- cf. http://www.protu.fi/lehti/lehti2-05/kuvat/nortit_lokeroissa_iso.jpg 20:15:49 Made the "main" newspapers and all. 20:15:50 fizzie: Why am I not this cool??? 20:16:28 Then it all sort of fizzled out pretty soon. 20:16:58 elliott, I wasn't lying 20:17:00 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 20:19:38 oerjan: have I mentioned how I think (safeWriteIORef :: IORef a -> a -> b -> b) is safe? 20:19:49 safeWriteIORef ref v a = unsafePerformIO (writeIORef ref v >> return a) 20:20:18 Why the b 20:20:28 Deewiant: As opposed to 20:20:36 Some people were annoyed when the social side (meetings and all that) was starting to dominate the organization; there was a (democratic) coup, and then the newly elected government disbanded the organization and started the "People's Democratic Irti Elämästä", while the people who liked being social started "Getnolife". I don't think either one of the new organizations survived for so very long. 20:20:41 elliott: IORef a -> a -> a 20:20:52 Deewiant: Returning what, v? 20:20:56 elliott: Yep 20:20:57 I wasn't ever a member of any of these, just sort of watched from the sidelines. 20:21:01 Deewiant: Less general 20:21:06 Deewiant: (Don't say seq, you need pseq) 20:21:18 Incidentally, the irtie folks were in fact the "wrong people" associating with whom got me banned from #linux.fi. 20:21:49 -!- monqy has joined. 20:22:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:22:05 fizzie: Why is Finnish culture so fucking interesting :( 20:22:06 elliott: I was going to say that you don't need the generality for anything but I guess it's easier than using pseq 20:22:10 We have no IRC gangs! 20:22:18 Deewiant: pseq isn't standard 20:22:27 I'm not sure "culture" is the right word here, and this was all long time ago, there's nothing interesting going on in modern-day Finland. 20:22:31 elliott: unsafePerformIO and writeIORef are? 20:22:39 Deewiant: unsafePerformIO is in Haskell 2010 20:22:46 elliott: writeIORef is? 20:22:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:22:58 Hmm, no, surprisingly enough 20:23:01 But it's ubiquitous 20:23:03 pseq ain't 20:23:48 I guess pseq a b = unsafePerformIO (a `seq` return b) is a portable pseq :) 20:26:09 -!- Cocytus has joined. 20:26:38 lol i was going to refer you to this room. but i had a feeling you were already here. 20:26:47 -!- Cocytus has left. 20:27:02 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:27:11 -!- ive has joined. 20:27:19 -!- Cocytus has joined. 20:28:06 (elliot, phantom_hoover) 20:28:06 elliott* 20:28:48 oh, dammit 20:28:52 you've been here before haven't you :P 20:28:58 our beautiful prank ruined forever :'( 20:29:42 -!- Cocytus has left. 20:30:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:30:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 20:30:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:30:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:31:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:31:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:31:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:31:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:33:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:24 CakeProphet: "you" = ? 20:34:44 Weak (MVar (HashMap a (Weak b))) 20:34:47 ais523: behold my beauty 20:34:53 in 20:34:55 the form of a type 20:35:46 elliott: it's a type 20:35:50 yep 20:35:53 I'm not very good at admiring type beauty 20:36:04 ais523: does it help if you know that Weak is a weak pointer? 20:36:07 and MVar a mutable reference? 20:36:18 which language is this? 20:36:21 Haskell 20:36:27 it, umm, makes it worse 20:36:35 worse in a /beautiful/ way 20:37:45 -!- Ngevd has joined. 20:38:13 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit). 20:43:27 -!- Ngevd has joined. 20:43:46 Remember when we made ABCDEF...G? 20:44:18 you've been here before haven't you :P <-- i thought the nick looked familiar 20:44:37 oerjan: insufficient horror at the safety of safeWriteIORef 20:45:29 elliott: Ooh, I'm Finnish! 20:45:36 shachaf: Quite. 20:45:38 * shachaf knows little of Finnish culture, though. :-( 20:45:48 elliott: i don't understand why that would be considered safe... 20:45:50 shachaf: It's based around IRC and the demoscene. 20:45:58 oerjan: it has no observable side-effects outside of IO 20:46:10 elliott: I don't think that's hwo Finnish culture works... 20:46:33 oerjan: and, of course, with things like StableNames and so on, we find it perfectly acceptable to be able to observe more about the evaluation of pure expressions than the semantics allow, so long as it is in IO 20:46:45 Deewiant: BTW, I think Data.IORef is standard, since you can implement it in terms of the FFI 20:46:56 Well, hmm 20:46:59 I guess only for Storable types 20:47:14 Oh wait 20:47:18 You can do it in terms of mutable arrays methinks 20:47:28 Finnish culture has no observable side-effects outside of IO!? 20:47:31 Which aren't standard >_< 20:48:15 Aha 20:48:16 StablePtrs 20:48:18 let you do it 20:48:26 Ngevd: it's the truth! 20:48:46 the finns are a pure people 20:49:54 Oh, hmm 20:49:59 StablePtrs are immutable 20:50:08 Aha 20:50:10 But they're Storable 20:51:01 elliott: iirc that's how the reflection package worked 20:51:26 I see philosophy guy caught onto us 20:51:40 oerjan: I think I have a workable implementation :) 20:51:42 newtype IORef a = IORef (ForeignPtr (StablePtr a)) 20:51:44 strategy, that is 20:51:51 * elliott briefly wonders why he's implementing portable IORefs 20:52:48 briefly? what made you stop wondering? 20:52:58 to maintain the illusion that there will ever be a non-ghc-based full haskell implementation again 20:54:01 ghc is like this beast that just keeps growing type tentacles 20:55:51 some time in the next 2-3 years someone (perhaps named kiselyov) will discover that ghc's type system has grown to the point of supporting a full embedded dependent type system by accident 20:56:01 Trivia: all natural numbers are one less than another natural number 20:56:01 This works backwards almost all the time 20:58:55 Deewiant: oerjan: http://sprunge.us/Qcjg 20:59:01 Therefore Data.IORef is standard, Q.E.D. 20:59:20 mkFinalizer? 20:59:39 Deewiant: 20:59:39 foreign import ccall "wrapper" 20:59:39 mkFinalizer :: (Ptr a -> IO ()) -> IO (FunPtr (Ptr a -> IO ())) 20:59:45 Yes..... 20:59:49 That doesn't look "standard" 20:59:49 http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch8.html 20:59:54 Grep /wrapper/ 21:01:16 ghc: error: a C finalizer called back into Haskell. 21:01:16 This was previously allowed, but is disallowed in GHC 6.10.2 and later. 21:01:16 To create finalizers that may call back into Haskell, use 21:01:16 Foreign.Concurrent.newForeignPtr instead of Foreign.newForeignPtr. 21:01:17 Swoot 21:03:58 Deewiant: But yes, all that's perfectly standard apart from my maybe-broken finaliser 21:06:25 Dammit America, stop worrying me with your absurdly terrible job market. 21:06:59 Deewiant: Actually no, my code is perfectly fine, GHC just disallows it for performance reasons :) 21:07:06 just worry about italy instead 21:07:12 -!- songhead95 has joined. 21:07:22 hi songhead95! 21:07:24 `quote rotting sea life 21:07:26 There is a wasp. 21:07:26 On my pillow. 21:07:26 Advice? 21:07:26 99) think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat 21:07:32 Sleep. 21:07:38 Love 21:07:43 Sleep on it 21:07:45 Eh; Italy doesn't blend with my perception of things like the US does. 21:07:52 Ngevd, magma. 21:07:53 Ngevd: Friendship wasp 21:08:08 Ngevd: empty glass 21:08:32 Might somebody be able to tell me why my should-be brainfuck interpreter doesn't interpret brainfuck? 21:08:36 http://pastebin.com/5QhHSfA0 21:08:42 +something to slide between 21:08:57 oerjan, no that is not in the spirit of friendship 21:09:08 I waved my pillow around outside my window for a bit 21:09:14 songhead95: i note that you don't have any code to handle [ 21:09:17 It's not on my pillow anymore 21:09:18 animal friendship: animal husbandry for the 21st century 21:09:20 songhead95: what about when you hit [ and the cell is 0? 21:10:23 oh whoops 21:10:46 elliott: wow, Oracle are alleging that Google copied which classes inherit from which other classes 21:10:53 :D 21:11:33 According to Oracle’s java.util API specification, the Hashtable class is a subclass of Dictionary, and implements three interfaces: Serializable, Cloneable, and Map, which are found in the java.lang, java.io, and java.util packages, respectively. This organization is hardly intuitive or preordained, but Google copied it. Android’s Hashtable class is likewise a subclass of Dictionary, and implements the same three interfaces, with the 21:11:34 same three names, found in the same three corresponding Android packages. 21:12:56 In other news, Hexham beat Stobswood 8 2 21:13:01 olsner: it is done: http://hpaste.org/53881 21:13:07 Wait a moment 'till I find out what sport 21:13:24 -!- DCliche has joined. 21:13:37 Oh. 21:13:39 Football. 21:17:00 -!- DCliche_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:27:11 ...Where's Stobswood? 21:28:53 it doesn't really exist, they just made it up to make the hexhammers feel better about their football team. 21:31:01 Ngevd: morpeth, apparently 21:31:04 http://www.google.co.uk/maps/vt/data=Ay5GWBeob_WIPLDYoIWcfVXxvZu9XwJ55OX7Ag,C5cdt2A5CfGdk67NP3fQV7xwKKLsYcHz8F-9A1U08Az-t3JBJy4hche_-np_WGhzG-UwL4AZsYR5Ig 21:31:07 wow they found the most boring place 21:31:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widdrington_Station_and_Stobswood population 120 21:35:21 According to Oracle’s java.util API specification [...] <-- are they complaining about google following the spec? 21:35:37 oh right 21:35:41 but why!? 21:35:58 money 21:36:10 I see 21:37:02 Vorpal: they're complaining about Google copying parts of the spec, whilst not implementing others 21:37:19 in particular, they're alleging copyright infringement of the Java API 21:37:25 btw, dragonborn (which iirc show up in D&D?, and now also in Skyrim) make little sense 21:37:30 if you actually think about it 21:37:36 and most of the arguing that's going on is about whether this is a meaningful concept or not 21:37:46 Vorpal: it's a D&D4 thing, I think; probably from a D&D3 splatbook 21:37:47 I'm pretty sure that genetically it wouldn't work either 21:37:58 fantasy: genetically accurate 21:38:19 elliott: but also think what it means. Some human did what with a dragon!? 21:38:33 Vorpal: in D&D, dragons can shapechange at will 21:38:42 presumably it happens while the dragon is in human form 21:38:43 hm okay 21:38:47 well okay 21:38:51 Vorpal: It would be more unrealistic to /not/ have that happen! 21:39:19 elliott: well yes if you /had/ the concept of dragonborn you need something like that. 21:39:35 but I'm questioning the whole concept as it were 21:39:37 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:54:14 someone on the iwc forum pointed out that tomorrow's iwc rerun will be no. 11, and appear at 11:11 MET 11/11/11 21:54:54 heh 21:55:04 oerjan: did you know: you'll be over 50 once iwc finishes rerunning 21:55:15 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 21:55:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:57 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:00:55 oerjan: :D 22:06:17 -!- Ngevd has joined. 22:06:24 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:06:33 -!- airells has joined. 22:06:40 GOOD NEWS, ESOLANGERS! 22:06:48 I've done some work on XSLT S and K 22:06:54 AND IT WORKS FOR ONE ITERATION 22:07:05 YAY 22:07:06 It can turn SKKx to Kx(Kx) 22:07:12 Mine worked for one iteration, too. 22:18:14 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:25:40 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:29:36 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined. 22:30:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:30:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:32:43 -!- DCliche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:38:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:41:42 Result! 22:41:53 I've hopelessly confused someone in #Philosopher! 22:42:03 STRIKE ONE FOR ESOLANGS 22:44:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:44:20 Phantom_Hoover, how? 22:44:56 Why doesn't //app[./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::k] or ./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::s]] work? 22:45:16 `pastelogs Sut-Heb 22:45:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25178 22:45:29 fungot? 22:45:29 Taneb: language files code comment comment blank total iirc) are *evil* 22:45:37 Ooh, I'm all bold 22:45:38 Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god. 22:45:41 Hmm, so is Philosopher a Brainfuck derivative? lol 22:45:41 you;ll be brainfucked you stick around long enough 22:45:41 So is that a yes? 22:45:41 well thats if you stimulaed by the esoteric arts 22:45:41 if not then you'll just think where out of our mindzx 22:45:42 Yesyesyes but is it a Brainfuck derivative/ 22:45:42 Phantom_Hoover: That guy's been in here too. 22:45:44 so what borught you here? 22:45:46 A desire to purge all Brainfuck derivatives. 22:45:48 I am like the Terminator except more so. 22:45:49 Phantom_Hoover: It's literally a refugee for stupid #esotericers. 22:45:50 brainfuck derivitive's what do you mean by that 22:46:00 Stop flooding you idiot Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover BOTH THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IN HERE BEFORE 22:46:01 IT'S AMAZING 22:46:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Object_(programming_language) 22:46:16 YES 22:46:21 WE SURROUND THEM 22:46:24 ais523: good news and bad news 22:46:38 the good news is that it's not obviously a BF deriv 22:46:41 ais523: good news: we have two places to send people who come here for the wrong reasons 22:46:46 ais523: bad news: they're both awful 22:47:05 the bad news is, well just look at it 22:47:26 ais523: at least the syntax highlighting is pretty 22:47:42 ais523: article violates two policies 22:47:45 at the least 22:47:45 I'm unsure whether that's syntax highlighting or part of the source 22:47:49 can you tell what they are? 22:47:50 what's the other one? 22:47:54 oh right 22:47:54 what's the first one? 22:47:56 userpage link, category? 22:47:58 yep 22:48:01 I missed the userpage pothole 22:48:09 it's also not linked from anywhere it should be 22:48:18 the good thing about Graue's rules is, they're really good at annoying people 22:48:23 especially when they're stupid rules 22:48:23 and there's not enough information to figure out how to categorise it 22:48:36 I actually like the no-userspace-potholes rule 22:48:50 It's reasoanble enough. 22:48:52 and as for the cats rule, if it gets rid of articles like that I can live with the false positives ;P 22:49:05 no unauthorised cats 22:49:07 they will not be fed 22:50:04 `quote matrix of solidity 22:50:07 301) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 22:50:19 Phantom_Hoover: What has he said after not gbeating around the bush. 22:50:23 do we have an esolang based on the matrix of solidity concept yet? 22:50:31 elliott, nothing. 22:50:35 :'( 22:50:46 ais523: no, it would inevitably fail to live up to expectations 22:51:04 ais523: The esolang... is us. 22:51:12 elliott: that's IRP, isn't it? 22:51:24 No, that esolang is certain parts of us projected onto the internet. 22:51:27 The matrix of solidity is literally us. 22:52:04 Phantom_Hoover: Oh dear, Cocytus has /msg'd me. 22:52:08 I'm afraid to check the tab. 22:52:33 Oh wait, it's okay, a mentality is transcendent. 22:52:50 "Freenode is the most reliable network for IRC and the most secure." -- http://www.esotericphilosopher.com/chat/ 22:52:58 whatever you say... 22:53:20 ais523: btw, could you delete [[User:Ehird/sandbox]]? 22:54:07 elliott: after making sure you aren't burying the history of something, yes 22:54:12 Nobody tell Timwi about the Symbol of the Day. 22:54:22 the hermitian matrix of solidity 22:54:23 ais523: Damn! 22:54:42 * ais523 waits for elliott to come to a realisation 22:55:31 deleted, anyway 22:55:48 So what was it? 22:56:00 ais523: What realisation? That wasn't damning you. 22:56:04 That was just damning... the empty string. 22:56:08 elliott: I know 22:56:12 that's why I didn't get annoyed 22:56:14 I just thought it was amusing 22:56:15 heh 22:56:17 in context 22:56:37 damn "you" 22:56:41 the string, that is. 22:57:05 that's also a bizarre operation 22:57:11 Damn damning. 22:57:15 And damn damnation. 22:57:18 And damn "damn". 22:57:22 ais523, damn you! 22:57:24 Damn. 22:57:30 jean claude van damn 22:57:39 Phantom_Hoover: why? that's an incredibly mean thing to do on such minor motivation 22:57:51 if I thought you believed it, I'd be furious 22:57:55 as it is, I'm merely angry 22:58:02 Well, #xml should help me with my XSLT problems 22:58:10 ais523, actually angry, or theoretically angry? 22:58:17 everyone fear the hoover damn 22:58:22 Phantom_Hoover: actually, believe it or not 22:59:11 ais523, that's an awful lot of effort to go to for the sake of being quirky. 22:59:21 Phantom_Hoover: anger takes /effort/? 22:59:25 it's suppressing anger that takes effort 22:59:29 especially when people say such mean things 22:59:42 Phantom_Hoover discovers that not everybody shares his value system. 22:59:50 You're forcibly ignoring about three different aspects of standard human communication. 23:00:29 Phantom_Hoover: people using words with meanings other than their actual meanings confuses me, to some extent 23:00:39 because communication makes no sense if people do it too often 23:00:40 I suggest we pester #philosophy 23:00:42 also, butterfly 23:00:54 Taneb: we've done that before 23:00:58 they're all boring 23:01:10 Awww 23:02:22 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 23:02:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:02:42 ais523: god says he's taking it back on behalf of ph, btw 23:04:33 ais523: heh, I just read a usenet post by "alex23" in rec.games.roguelike.development convinced you wrote it 23:04:48 and wondering why it was so bizarrely out-of-character 23:04:48 I didn't 23:07:37 @ping 23:07:37 pong 23:08:46 -!- airells has left. 23:09:07 ^def ping ul (pong!)S 23:09:08 Defined. 23:09:11 `ping 23:09:12 pong 23:09:17 !ping 23:09:26 !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!"); 23:09:27 ​Interpreter ping installed. 23:09:28 !ping 23:09:40 :/ 23:09:57 !delinterp ping 23:09:57 ​Interpreter ping deleted. 23:10:04 !addinterp ping c ( 23:10:05 ​Interpreter ping installed. 23:10:06 !ping 23:10:09 !ping 23:10:12 Gregor: ? 23:10:29 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 23:11:10 ^ping 23:11:10 pong! 23:11:27 ^def ping ul (pong!)S 23:11:28 elliott: EgoBot's interpreters haven't worked for weeks 23:11:33 oerjan: *sigh* 23:11:35 !delinterp ping 23:11:36 ​Interpreter ping deleted. 23:11:41 !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!"); 23:11:42 ​Interpreter ping installed. 23:11:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:47 that'll work when they do 23:11:56 !delinterp ping 23:11:57 ​Interpreter ping deleted. 23:11:58 !addinterp ping c puts("Pong."); 23:11:59 ​Interpreter ping installed. 23:11:59 too happy 23:12:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:12:51 !c puts("Pong!"); 23:13:34 !show ping 23:13:55 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:14:03 !help 23:14:03 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 23:14:17 !help userinterps 23:14:18 ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 23:14:41 !show swedeesh 23:14:55 !userinterps 23:14:55 ​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez 23:15:04 !show svedeesh 23:15:34 somehow show doesn't work though the rest of those special commands do 23:15:47 !show numberwang 23:16:13 does !show actually do anything at all? 23:16:27 ^show source 23:16:27 (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S 23:16:32 !commands 23:16:34 yes, it's supposed to show the source of a userinterpreter 23:16:45 !showinterp svedeesh 23:16:52 !show reverse 23:16:58 * Madoka-Kaname shrug 23:17:01 !svedeesh 23:17:13 !reverse test 23:17:15 Um 23:17:34 Madoka-Kaname: those don't work. 23:17:47 only some special commands do 23:20:10 oh no, Pegasus made another page with the same policy violations 23:20:25 someone else go fix them, so they won't think it's just me on a mad crusade against them 23:20:38 The Parnassus Programming Language (2007, by Erick Atencio) is a programming language with features that other languages never had before. It is based on the When instruction, that allows to run a procedure in the moment an event happen. 23:20:44 ais523: propose for deletion, not an esolang 23:20:49 event-based programming is a well-known concept 23:20:57 and the examples shown have no esoteric features whatsoever 23:20:58 not even syntax 23:21:10 well, apart from using the terrible whitesmiths indentation style 23:24:36 these new languages.... 23:24:46 why is every language bad 23:24:50 except for the good ones 23:24:59 but who cares about those 23:25:04 Because mediocrity sucks 23:25:07 ais523: he just dropped another one 23:25:13 ais523: can you block him for spamming? 23:25:19 ugh what 23:25:32 what is it with this guy 23:25:35 Category: Impossible Programming Inc 23:25:36 elliott: the thing is, I'm not convinced it's spam or off-topic 23:25:41 banned for category 23:25:42 monqy: that's a clear policy violation 23:25:48 I think we should each clean up one page at a time 23:25:50 until he gets the point 23:25:54 different person on each page 23:26:16 I'll take Parnassus 23:26:30 If you explain how you mean clean up 23:26:52 ais523: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Parnassus 23:27:01 how many !votes do we need for deletion? :P 23:27:15 Taneb: fix the userspace pothole, fix the categories 23:27:29 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to shylock. 23:27:31 elliott: technically only one, but that means it gets deleted after about 10 years if anyone still cares by then 23:27:37 the more support for deletion, the faster it gets deleted 23:27:39 -!- shylock has changed nick to copumpkin. 23:28:13 I'm antilooking forward to [[Hera Runtime]], anyway 23:28:16 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Pegasus 23:28:48 ais523: [[Hebe Script]] is quite uncontroversially offtopic, methinks 23:29:00 it's Not Even FURscript 23:29:07 it's just... a language 23:29:07 not even snack 23:29:18 elliott: my brain's having problems reading it 23:29:22 it just mentally filters the page out 23:29:25 what does it say? 23:29:30 Hebe Script is a simple scripting language that allows for the creation of little applets for the Hera Runtime. t has the CommonSystem library preloaded, and it does not have a App object, so it does not need a "When app.run = True" main method. 23:29:30 [edit]How to copy a file to the floopy disk 23:29:30 if get DiskSpace with "a:\";or "b:\" 23:29:30 Higher Than FileSize with PublicArg-1 23:29:31 call CopyFile with PublicArg-1 with (get IsAvailable with "a:\";or "b:\") 23:29:33 End 23:29:35 End 23:29:37 PublicArg are the parameters that the script received. 23:29:39 it ties in with Parnassus 23:29:41 it seems 23:29:50 ais523: fun fact: there's a syntax-highlighted comment on [[Parnassus]] 23:29:52 it's just almost invisible 23:29:52 bleh, I can't read it even when you post it, it's just that bland 23:30:07 elliott: I noticed, I read the source of pages before the pages themselves 23:30:14 simple anti-goatse trick 23:30:55 * elliott attempts to figure out how much he values Ryan North sketches of T-Rex with a hat on 23:31:14 elliott: thinking about buying one, or about selling one? 23:31:20 heh, buying 23:31:53 it's quite difficult to estimate, as I get to pick from a large but finite set of unknown elements 23:31:56 If i = ( 4; or 2; or 1) 23:32:08 ais523: that's not so unreasonable, Perl 6 has that 23:32:09 and Icon 23:32:13 but the syntax is wow 23:32:17 I know Perl 6 has it, but its syntax is much saner 23:32:27 I saw somebody wearing an xkcd shirt today 23:32:28 Call write:string With const "The number is two, four or eleven" 23:32:31 please tell me that's not a typo 23:32:49 ais523: what typo? 23:32:51 Taneb: did you run away 23:33:04 elliott: ( 4; or 2; or 1) versus "two, four or eleven" 23:33:09 ais523: heh 23:33:12 ais523: it's ESOTERIC!!! 23:33:36 elliott, nah, he hadn't actually heard of xkcd 23:33:41 wat 23:33:58 did a frend give it to him as present 23:33:59 elliott: /some/ xkcds are good… 23:34:08 monqy, exactly 23:34:10 I like the one with the arrow 23:34:27 ais523: yes, but to wear an xkcd shirt in late 2011, well after the average quality of xkcd sunk from far above average to so, so below average? 23:34:50 elliott: it might still be an xkcd shirt of a good xkcd 23:35:03 I know enough about xkcd to know to and how to avoid xkcd shirts, but it doesn't matter anyway, because I refuse to wear anything but plain shirts 23:35:20 I've got a Homestuck shirt 23:35:28 ais523: I just checked, all the xkcd shirts suck :) 23:35:31 * elliott objective 23:35:43 elliott: which in your opinion is the least sucky? 23:35:49 I'm planning on getting an IWC shirt 23:35:53 so I can see how bad even the least sucky is for myself 23:36:02 ais523: probably http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/athletic_square_0.jpg, as it's impossible for the internet to run down into oblivion :) 23:36:25 although http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/woodpecker_300.png isn't bad 23:36:42 woodpecker is harder to associate with xkcd 23:36:49 You have new messages (last change). 23:36:50 oh no 23:36:53 oh no 23:36:56 ais523: defend me from pegasus if he cyberbullies me pls ;_; 23:37:06 oh no he was nice 23:37:11 now i have to feel slightly guilty about being a jerk 23:37:11 but I'm about to go home 23:37:17 i literally cannot win!! 23:37:25 dear people: don't talk to me; love, elliott 23:37:40 ais523: what's your favourite hat???? 23:37:49 rated on pure... hattiness 23:38:00 elliott: bowler hat, I think 23:38:06 it's particularly hatty 23:38:07 oh, elliott is feeling misanthropic; let's shower him with love 23:38:13 Classy! But: Classy for a T-Rex??? 23:38:19 wow, xkcd 970 is actually mildly insightful 23:38:25 (although, not actually /amusing/) 23:38:40 elliott, oerjan: AND I REFUSE TO FIX THEM MUAHAHAHAHHA 23:38:59 Gregor: but but ;_; 23:39:23 why the heck did it break, anyway 23:39:27 ais523: hmm, that convinced me to archive binge from there to the latest xkcd 23:39:30 ais523: I regret having read 972 23:39:40 ah, OK 23:39:48 * elliott masochist 23:40:02 oerjan: it's about five comics :P 23:40:06 wow 972 is bad 23:40:36 I'm going to have to sue him over 974, those @ design documents are classified 23:41:31 elliott: hey, bad comic saved by funny comment from a viewer 23:41:43 Man. Hats are complicated. 23:41:44 ais523: heh 23:41:46 wow, that sounded worryingly Vorpalish, and I don't know why 23:41:56 "hey," 23:42:04 why the heck did it break, anyway // I have no idea; if I knew, I'd fix it :P 23:42:36 Gregor, are you available for hat identification services. 23:43:56 elliott: Depends on whether I can actually identify the hat in question. 23:44:02 elliott: If I can't, I wasn't available. 23:44:10 !ping 23:44:28 !pong 23:44:34 !delinterp ping 23:44:35 ​Interpreter ping deleted. 23:44:42 !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!"); 23:44:42 Gregor: Feather-based hat identification services. 23:44:43 ​Interpreter ping installed. 23:44:46 !ping 23:44:56 elliott: Errr ... identification based on feathers makes little sense. 23:44:58 Hmm ... 23:45:00 * ais523 puts a feather in Gregor's cap 23:45:23 Gregor: Whoosh 23:45:26 Or perhaps me-whoosh 23:46:08 Mwhoosh. 23:46:12 It's Welsh. 23:49:06 !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!"); 23:49:06 ​There is already an interpreter for ping! 23:49:20 (just checking if it's actually there :P) 23:49:29 !c puts("Pong!") 23:49:52 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:01 And there's the problem 23:50:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:50:06 I just disco'd it :P 23:50:38 !c puts("Pong!") 23:51:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:11 -!- elliott has joined. 23:51:19 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 23:51:19 -!- elliott has joined. 23:51:56 fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable HAHA WHOOPS 23:52:26 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 23:53:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:53:13 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:53:13 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:53:15 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:53:25 -!- Gregor has joined. 23:53:32 wb 23:54:08 YOU SAW NOTHING 23:54:24 !ping 23:54:26 Pong! 23:54:28 i definitely saw no glogbackup 23:54:38 oerjan: I saw that too >_> 23:54:40 Which distresses me. 23:54:49 Okay, who's bright idea was it to make "xml" an invalid name for xsl:processing instuction? 23:55:19 !svedeesh We are working again! 23:55:19 Fe-a-a ire-a-a foorkeeng igeeee! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 23:56:04 * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 23:56:04 * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 23:56:04 rip 23:56:04 the whole Gregor empire collapsed 23:56:04 * glogbot (foobar@codu.org) has joined #esoteric 23:56:05 thats what 23:56:08 glegbutt missed 23:56:46 Gregor: so was the process table entirely full, or something? 23:57:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:57:38 init schemes always seem so ridiculously complicated to me. 23:58:03 I mean, systemd... upstart... Holy crap, Debian dynamically creates a makefile for it...