< 1319846430 817258 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319846456 137817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there are a severe deficiency of esoteric markup languages < 1319846508 329929 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319846522 464658 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-200.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because esoteric languages are historically a lot of turing tarpits < 1319846715 349139 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write an esoteric markup language < 1319846743 562862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on smileys, no doubt < 1319846754 967309 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. that's an awesome idea < 1319846755 607579 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1319846760 559901 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this idea~ < 1319846773 540246 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs madoka-kaname <3
< 1319846962 641437 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hug ^_^
< 1319847991 553348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319848337 738779 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319848961 265259 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319849774 849757 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1319849960 942463 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319850037 737481 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319851689 569035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1319854856 611415 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319855042 585658 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319856582 370736 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1319856936 896318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1319856952 72578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: tiffany: NO JOY ALLOWED < 1319856996 609774 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1319857001 23319 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps CakeProphet with a heart
< 1319857041 748446 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... I feel better now. < 1319857224 273164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my source of transportation is once again < 1319857224 921062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead < 1319857228 181067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2500 later. < 1319857248 175163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad carma < 1319857276 668834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. -_- < 1319857296 156530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that flyswatter? < 1319857304 218730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right here < 1319857341 513515 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps oerjan with a saucepan instead ==\__/
< 1319857353 60974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1319857700 267379 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's something simple though < 1319857706 238757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :involving not correctly putting in the CV axle. < 1319857900 462482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the thing that goes from the transmission to the wheels to make them turn in a front-wheel drive car) < 1319858050 321123 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319858374 790453 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version of internet explorer works best in wine? < 1319858528 594717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the older the better, right? < 1319858533 6574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1319858722 218214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1319858894 164560 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1319859968 476142 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a present for you oerjan: ======[] < 1319859981 58302 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to get cakeprophet back < 1319860065 724530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1319860109 666387 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't think i've ever seen you use a sledge-o-matic, so i went out and got one just for you < 1319860269 608831 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1319861290 616435 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319861307 632869 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1319862445 491667 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1319862819 798779 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1319863391 724611 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319864474 87052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :allValues = h allValues allValues where { f 0 x _ = x; f n x y = liftM2 (:) y $ f (n - 1) x y; g x y = maybe undefined id $ lookup y x; h x y = g . zip x <$> f (length x) [[]] y; }; < 1319864515 284590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This appears to work to make a list of all functions between two types, I think. < 1319864646 905890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the types are finite, perhaps < 1319864669 468332 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the types are finite. < 1319864723 2560 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even works for functions between function types, since I defined a Eq instance for those types. < 1319864740 357230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Eq y, AllValues x) => Eq (x -> y) < 1319864861 404585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip const const < 1319864862 653627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. b -> b < 1319864879 245594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\a b c -> b) < 1319864879 916975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const const < 1319864903 255965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip const undefined < 1319864904 52825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. b -> b < 1319865162 406352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence < 1319865163 36884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence [] = return [] < 1319865163 232060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs) < 1319865163 307383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR: sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) < 1319865294 930084 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that unicode strings may be difficult to search through < 1319865313 833736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes < 1319865336 129533 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! at topic :( < 1319865409 653231 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the part about tearing up mr. mccarthy's exquisite corpse? < 1319865429 274034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f 0 x _ = x; f n x y = liftM2 (:) y $ f (n - 1) x y in f < 1319865429 982640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t (m :: * -> *) a1. (Monad m, Num t) => t -> m [a1] -> m a1 -> m [a1] < 1319865462 610527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f n x y = sequence $ replicate n y ++ [x] in f < 1319865463 369524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m a -> m [a] < 1319865474 887723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not quite < 1319865484 398859 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the instance I have, it is that, like in mathematics $0^0=1$ and that seem very reasonable to me. < 1319865496 969681 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0 ^ 0 < 1319865498 258215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1319865520 185632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1319865550 651598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it is correct although some people disagree. < 1319865551 104335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f n x y = sequence $ replicate n y ++ [[x]] in f < 1319865551 922533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Int -> a -> [a] -> [[a]] < 1319865555 864965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1319865565 635620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in specific fields you might not want $0^0=1$ but in general I think it is correct. < 1319865571 185862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1319865577 517261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f n x y = sequence $ replicate n y ++ [return x] in f < 1319865578 178187 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => Int -> a -> m a -> m [a] < 1319865597 271697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not the same :( < 1319865670 6186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f n x y = foldr (liftM2 (:)) x $ replicate n y in f < 1319865670 745680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a1. (Monad m) => Int -> m [a1] -> m a1 -> m [a1] < 1319865693 448693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now that is right i think < 1319865706 656054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f n x y = foldr (liftM2 (:)) x $ genericReplicate n y in f < 1319865707 456550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall i (m :: * -> *) a1. (Integral i, Monad m) => i -> m [a1] -> m a1 -> m [a1] < 1319867445 634775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the solar time be an Arabic Part? < 1319868652 717602 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: This pyramid-shaped ball is a mad house!!! < 1319869371 970437 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1319869736 992457 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle IO a -> a < 1319869737 795574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a < 1319869737 966271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Internal inlinePerformIO :: IO a -> a < 1319869738 158580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Unsafe unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a < 1319869805 385010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1319870732 218325 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319870886 505578 :kmc!~keegan@72-63-52-193.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319871515 839203 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319871670 134018 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrllo! < 1319871787 726820 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellc. < 1319872193 245340 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, to make it more dynamic, wipeout_text("Hello", 3, 0) or something. (See: http://p.zem.fi/ka4r ) < 1319872313 669320 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319872332 620318 :kmc_!~keegan@174-146-83-33.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319872541 824788 :kmc!~keegan@72-63-52-193.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319872980 974582 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319873181 319661 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :pumpkin < 1319873222 434311 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :c0w < 1319873257 286860 :kmc_!~keegan@174-146-83-33.pools.spcsdns.net NICK :kmc < 1319874050 695247 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1319874694 615994 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1319874823 337795 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1319875107 665190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1319875503 844451 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1319876415 846909 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1319876802 360452 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Omega is cool < 1319878513 869795 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319878514 193279 :CakeProphet!621235b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.18.53.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319878521 874204 :CakeProphet!621235b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.18.53.178 QUIT :Changing host < 1319878521 946833 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1319878526 952212 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi gaiz. < 1319878665 495767 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a orthogonally persistent system, it makes more sense to explicitly delete than it does to explicitly save. < 1319878692 416714 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a word processor, for example, you never save, but instead delete untitlted / scratch documents when they're no longer wanted. < 1319878828 952461 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe to help people who aren't familiar with that paradigm, it could by default have untitlted documents in an auto-delete mode, so that they disappear without the user thinking about it whenever it's appropriate for them to disappear. Once they're named then they continue as persistent denizens of memory. < 1319879125 563371 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, since there's no traditional hierarchical filesystem I suppose each individual program would have a component that manages its (what would usually be called) files and allows them to be "opened" (not really much of an open anymore; requesting better nomenclature) for use. < 1319879158 336583 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like visit instead of open. < 1319879247 619141 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most programs that would be as simple as maintaining some sort of associative structure with a UI to browse it. < 1319879288 600020 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem I can see is that programs could easily become possessive about their various documents, which would typically have free access by any other program but now must be explicitly shared. < 1319879299 476398 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for security, I guess. < 1319879475 297211 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a system-wide component to make these "files" available to other programs, you basically end up having to reinvent data sharing over and over instead of serialization/persistence. < 1319879663 45132 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: isn't that right? < 1319879664 270451 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: actually,,,it could operate on compiled code instead of having the nn's weights emulate the convolution signal ( well, not sure whether absent-optional? is almost always going to be < 1319879983 414385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1319880053 242779 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, instead of saving things < 1319880063 316409 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could commit versions. < 1319881552 431582 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319881574 870086 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319881738 245226 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1319882073 543594 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just worked out why my Pietbot isn't assembling correctly < 1319882500 566362 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost there! < 1319882540 642833 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what language? < 1319882544 673035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet < 1319882559 999013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, Piet Assembler < 1319882586 361083 :CakeProphet!621235b2@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1319882598 302354 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is scared of Piet < 1319882772 765129 :CakeProphet!~eris@h178.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319882772 866375 :CakeProphet!~eris@h178.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1319882772 938799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1319883109 368641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott I tried to download the last c-intercal today, but the download link timed out. So I'm currently unable to update the Arch Linux package. < 1319883110 75142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1319883719 877319 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: well done.. bowing out < 1319884277 144565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319884295 803408 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: programs are so 60's though < 1319884300 411884 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319884307 33665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I.... no. < 1319884317 761377 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a retarded idea < 1319884331 201037 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think programs are... a good idea? < 1319884334 29280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a user's perspective < 1319884340 363409 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be wrong < 1319884344 719469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a programmer's perspective programs make perfect sense. < 1319884354 590057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck cares? < 1319884359 633968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers. < 1319884363 717791 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1319884367 679880 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck programmers < 1319884369 70820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case how do you logically divide code. < 1319884393 643095 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err functions and shit? < 1319884415 1825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like i always do when i program < 1319884446 820356 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i don't do is write multiple programs that interface each other clumsily just to have a nice logical division < 1319884455 595803 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs are a retarded idea < 1319884461 157967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fuck programmers < 1319884464 221678 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm leaving < 1319884471 505275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolokay < 1319884719 768744 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319884868 256362 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319885121 172196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319885336 171600 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319885525 129417 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43c8d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319885628 39080 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I knew what I was doing, Pietbot would be in this channel < 1319885903 103474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what do you not know. < 1319885912 623979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet? IRC? < 1319885928 177269 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC < 1319885932 371800 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Netcat < 1319885961 500770 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Pietbot is ran, it outputs: < 1319885996 65437 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NICK Pietbot < 1319885996 174770 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :USER Pietbot 0 * :Pietbot < 1319885996 174978 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG nickserv :identify [password] < 1319885996 175088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOIN #esoteric < 1319886000 477534 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when I plug it into netcat, nothing happens < 1319886057 752352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you invoking netcat < 1319886064 432773 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc.traditional -e ./bot irc.freenode.net 6667 < 1319886165 369289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why nc.traditional < 1319886168 149339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get: < 1319886169 699756 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec ./bot failed : Exec format error < 1319886197 674155 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem with the assembler? < 1319886230 198204 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to run fine when not connected < 1319886243 467377 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I just type in ./bot < 1319886269 259487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using regular nc with a pipe. < 1319886284 236468 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know anything about nc.traditional < 1319886301 247050 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Ubuntu package has no documentation. < 1319886318 98531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just nc, compiled so it has the -e option < 1319886342 616754 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah try piping instead. < 1319886361 257787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since using -e gives you the exec format error thing. < 1319886431 48678 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319886435 444031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1319886447 628540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319886480 957127 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1319886633 360422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should make it say "R" < 1319886633 439991 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)q < 1319886677 103112 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319886681 492173 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1319886686 181761 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what the problem is < 1319886804 212433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could someone please kick Pietbot? < 1319886958 71253 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319886967 982054 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try this again < 1319887049 699794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319887068 469901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pietbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) Could someone please kick Pietbot? <-- sorry? < 1319887104 213779 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god the mistake I made this time is so stupid < 1319887104 286198 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing a line break instead of a hash symbol < 1319887104 286371 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)q < 1319887108 468243 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319887173 752893 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! someone familiar with the IRC protocol? im tryin to create an IRC bot, but can't get it elnet < 1319887182 88713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elnet? < 1319887203 943290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even... < 1319887207 228450 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1319887208 294135 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1319887210 218523 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to run < 1319887235 131246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite familiar with the protocol, but you have to be more specific than that < 1319887253 245558 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres the code < 1319887254 996200 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/1RVj3DHN < 1319887274 392821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even an esolang < 1319887302 936135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway where does it fail, you forgot such info < 1319887316 153867 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"USER CSharpBot 8 * :I'm a C# irc bot" is a valid USER command < 1319887316 829336 :jix_!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1319887321 312968 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true < 1319887324 150183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pietbot's almost there < 1319887328 182838 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you guys are my last hope < 1319887335 110138 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319887344 996188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, anyway the format of that line looks wrong? < 1319887355 791398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember it off the top of my head < 1319887359 174438 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the USER line? < 1319887367 616440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't it be like USER something * * :something < 1319887389 508951 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to RFC: USER : < 1319887399 86969 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll try this < 1319887407 60064 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't 8 mean invisible? < 1319887407 132186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try using 0 < 1319887414 208803 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1319887445 97864 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to ask the guys in ##csharp but the results were horrible :( < 1319887459 315611 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks..brb < 1319887495 154500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from an irc bot I wrote in bash ages ago: < 1319887497 62805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :send_raw_flood "USER $config_ident 0 * :${config_gecos}" < 1319887506 936569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1319887565 788500 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC 1459 does it Vorpal's way < 1319887565 860733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC 2812 does it mine < 1319887565 860918 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pietbot uses the latter < 1319887567 96522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can at least connect < 1319887570 598850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should continue with this trend of esolang IRC bots. < 1319887582 492563 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1319887583 16776 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deadfishbot < 1319887588 884668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, only IRCNet actually uses RFC 2812 < 1319887589 386213 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HomeSpring bot... < 1319887615 722634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, it might work. It is a bit like html, everyone tries to handle weird stuff < 1319887616 880237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pietbot can connect < 1319887621 815342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it makes no sense < 1319887635 821222 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are differen RFCs? < 1319887657 87425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, yes, and none of the RFCs reflect what everyone actually does < 1319887663 641534 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319887668 810548 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MalebolgeBot -- a Malbolge IRC bot, < 1319887672 802231 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE YOU < 1319887673 983338 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319887686 108088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, there are all sorts of non-"official" but widely supported extensions < 1319887688 329048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think... < 1319887690 374280 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what I'll do. < 1319887695 931943 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempt to write a Malbolge IRC bot. :P < 1319887700 524208 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably fail miserably. < 1319887750 160036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... probably not going to happen. < 1319887760 162094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, like most of the channel modes. Like the ISUPPORT line (005 iirc), which everyone but IRCNet does. IRCNet uses a different meaning for 005. < 1319887796 484091 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea.. i thought the chanmode might be a problem < 1319887797 862317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, you want to parse the ISUPPORT line if you are doing a non-trivial bot, it will tell you how to parse stuff like which modes takes parameters. Allowing proper parsing of channel modes < 1319887811 251822 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also the order of the COMMANDS < 1319887830 748885 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just experimenting for now < 1319887847 957732 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to understand the way how it goes < 1319887850 42174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing /quote version on this server dumps you the ISUPPORT line as well < 1319887850 858304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ircd-seven-1.1.1(20110910-0f177e0ec620, Charybdis 3.4-dev). asimov.freenode.net :eHIKMpSZ6 TS6ow 64M < 1319887851 98585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=eIbq,k,flj,CFLMPQcgimnpstz CHANLIMIT=#:120 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bqeI:100 MODES=4 NETWORK=freenode KNOCK STATUSMSG=@+ CALLERID=g :are supported by this server < 1319887851 170953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390 ETRACE CPRIVMSG CNOTICE DEAF=D MONITOR=100 FNC TARGMAX=NAMES:1,LIST:1,KICK:1,WHOIS:1,PRIVMSG:4,NOTICE:4,ACCEPT:,MONITOR: :are supported by this server < 1319887851 377540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* EXTBAN=$,arx WHOX CLIENTVER=3.0 SAFELIST ELIST=CTU :are supported by this server < 1319887854 269771 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where the problems are < 1319887870 22292 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hooray.. we got some ;) < 1319887874 767033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tells you quite a bit about the widely supported but non-official extensions < 1319887902 248305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot where you can find docs on parsing that < 1319887906 794299 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok..will check it out < 1319887910 765600 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks a lot < 1319887924 587621 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will keep me busy for a while ;) < 1319887940 275013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2, ah this seems useful: http://wiki.inspircd.org/RPL_ISUPPORT_Tokens < 1319887948 551992 :c0w!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319887956 507751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably used that when I wrote envbot, since I was running a network with inspircd back then < 1319887983 889312 :c0w!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1319888094 782964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably charybdis (and thus freenode-seven) have a slightly different set of ISUPPORT tokens < 1319888288 97326 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Pietbot has stopped working < 1319888295 947944 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "stopped" < 1319888305 929371 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "now works even less" < 1319888494 898197 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319888494 970385 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1319888494 970535 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1319888728 644713 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I am aware, netcat has stopped working < 1319888978 521630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on. < 1319888978 630721 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is freenode up? < 1319889051 94651 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, am I here? < 1319889051 899443 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's also gpl, not lgpl. :p going really strong though. don't think it is < 1319889068 845698 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, while good, wasn't what I wanted < 1319889360 172182 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CF60.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319889391 94137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, heh < 1319889996 515238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319890003 603683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott I updated the AUR package for tup-git, it now builds and works. < 1319890004 335654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1319890678 965226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319892080 86525 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319892094 752920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : As far as I am aware, netcat has stopped working < 1319892094 856518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hang on. < 1319892094 933323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is freenode up? < 1319892094 933495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot, am I here? < 1319892095 219304 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ( 2) change everything behind it to *make* it fast, make the optimizing pass a bit nicer < 1319892114 483834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a similar problem once, in that I couldn't make new connections, but existing ones worked fine. < 1319892254 697516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I restart, or what? < 1319892264 660028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a router issue last time, IIRC. < 1319892271 728193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a modem issue. < 1319892280 546030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was upstream from me, whatever it was. < 1319892330 56910 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319892378 671186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Pietbot was here < 1319892398 141827 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319892413 845216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Pietbot's df and q commands work, I'll make it respond to pings < 1319892642 44099 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319892750 284403 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319892750 394884 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep getting distracted and miss it... < 1319892750 504977 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Pietbot joins, would someone say ")df iiisso" for me, please? < 1319892758 132771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319892793 916221 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1319892806 132409 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we wait and see < 1319892818 962656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1319892826 387926 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :435) meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary so far, it has found four digits I hope it will find the fifth some time this week < 1319892848 674732 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good one < 1319893002 72164 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319893061 220757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319893067 725966 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319893212 896609 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This problem is tricky to solve... < 1319893238 103820 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mysterious case of the bot in the esolang... < 1319893313 269279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319893494 440250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, debug it? < 1319893526 830179 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, npiet seems to be telling me the colour of every single pixel. < 1319893551 859104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a 581.3 KB image < 1319893836 663104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, does the program look artistic? < 1319893847 238960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially < 1319893851 678144 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be the problem < 1319893858 175524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a very grave one < 1319893902 168905 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks kind of like a backwards ` < 1319893904 30587 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*¬ < 1319893929 760328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, this (upscaled image) http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/Piet-4.gif is how piet programs should look < 1319894225 402725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319894276 731224 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319894373 770158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, Ngevd, this (upscaled image) http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/Piet-4.gif is how piet programs should look < 1319894405 411724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319894581 562881 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I wholeheartedly agree < 1319894609 244981 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I just saw today's IWC < 1319894613 176808 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sad
< 1319894672 626083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never actually noticed that all of the plot lines had been resolved. < 1319894687 645396 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel's topic is now extra appropriate < 1319894689 348161 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's conditioned me never to expect any progression in the story. < 1319894860 603386 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-200.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319894934 62343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. My primary source for terrible puns is now gone. < 1319894945 639053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parentheses in the topic are unbalanced. Argh < 1319894956 356320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And elliott never actually got around to reading it. Heh. < 1319894969 184288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I assume D&D will continue until it is done. I seen no indication of anything else < 1319894986 925550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well now he can read at a slow pace and know he will eventually catch up :P < 1319895018 284215 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-152-177.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1319895170 442479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, he explicitly said that mezzacotta and D&D won't be affected. < 1319895260 857585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, right, I hadn't read the entire annotation when I said that < 1319895311 761580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, it is obvious mezzacotta will continue. Unless there are bugs or limitations (such as not using bignums for dates) I see no reason it couldn't continue forever. < 1319895519 337559 :Jenny23!~Jenny23@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319895531 743171 :Jenny23!~Jenny23@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319895704 383042 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Irregular Webcomic is now a /very/ Irregular Webcomic < 1319895708 923426 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have a comic < 1319895873 256828 :Jenny23!~Jenny23@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319895899 670299 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi jenny < 1319895899 742736 :Jenny23!~Jenny23@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May the force be with you! < 1319895915 526313 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yess.. i finally made it :) < 1319895935 158708 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx vorpal, ngevd < 1319895951 833161 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319895962 617832 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had less luck, 'm afraid < 1319896079 513638 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is such a crap! ..the first reason it didn't work out is you have to wait till the server completes the host ident verification before sending USER blah < 1319896141 113436 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second: on some servers you need to respond to the PING :token with a PONG :token before "registered" (not so on irc.freenode.net) < 1319896242 400733 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the crap is, i didn't found out if there is any char or string signifying that server is ready to go < 1319896293 588370 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the USER command it seems always to send 4 lines of text < 1319896414 873155 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the working (experimental) code: http://cxg.florianbuetow.de/_e7fab7.htm < 1319896616 991124 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pietbot take 2 so far outputs "NIC" < 1319896695 23171 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be a way to make comfortable on all severs. i know its ugly, but at least it works that way :> < 1319896750 196224 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there really is a special char..now back to those RFCs ;) < 1319897054 701635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : the second: on some servers you need to respond to the PING :token with a PONG :token before "registered" (not so on irc.freenode.net) <-- there is a good reason for that < 1319897068 691225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that it prevents using a http proxy to spam irc < 1319897073 701802 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: avoiding cross-protocol attack, right? < 1319897077 509301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, yes < 1319897105 849048 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so strange that freenode (still) does not implement such measures < 1319897116 298353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1319897281 937625 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree. altough it blocks some clients like mibbit.com < 1319897376 562272 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1319897854 213738 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1319898515 59935 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1319898515 171209 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1319898756 87817 :Jenny23!~Jenny23@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319899052 227026 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1319899054 9051 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-247-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319899583 57377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/article_19510_the-7-most-questionable-haunted-items-ebay.html < 1319899591 432870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the funniest article to come out of Cracked in a long time. < 1319899645 244088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you write "GET / HTTP/1.1" to freenode's ircd, it treats it as a QUIT. < 1319899658 643513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1319899677 831308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it do that for other GET commands? Like GET /foo ... < 1319899697 865619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably all GET, and maybe other HTTP methods too. < 1319899702 255552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319899707 725597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't test more than the one. < 1319900019 974163 :fizziet!~fis@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1319900026 907278 :fizziet!~fis@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try a HEAD. < 1319900053 16211 :fizziet!~fis@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "unknown command", and GET did nothing. < 1319900068 75388 :fizziet!~fis@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's special-cased to only do a thing at connection initiation time. < 1319900086 745242 :fizziet!~fis@pc112.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Client Quit < 1319900123 642208 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At connection start, HEAD does nothing, GET insta-quits. < 1319900136 743851 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :em..y http? < 1319900194 605553 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use case? < 1319900260 479081 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1319900696 501421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and POST? < 1319900799 936539 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :POST /funnyform.cgi HTTP/1.1 < 1319900800 9779 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Client Exit) < 1319900808 465109 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319900860 762565 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319900971 379053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319901059 887296 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1319901450 322894 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-223.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319901466 126598 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-247-211.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1319901727 23404 :kmc_!~keegan@108.96.241.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319901920 131234 :kmc!~keegan@174-146-83-33.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1319902044 102687 :kmc__!~keegan@108.113.143.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319902244 613319 :kmc_!~keegan@108.96.241.253 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1319902276 460970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 It seems that the http download server for c-intercal (overload.intercal.org.uk) is down (at least over IPv6, trying anything else is somewhat annoying). I don't know who can fix that, but maybe you do? < 1319902277 278198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1319902541 345314 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e271.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319902703 920284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I doubt ipv6 is relevant here, since I can connect just fine. I simply get no HTTP headers back from the server. < 1319903117 902700 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1319903559 87290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319903692 155363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319904524 358282 :c0w!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com NICK :copumpkin < 1319904524 801150 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1319904524 873601 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319905001 350522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: the first esolang I created was an Ook! derivative < 1319905011 149073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It introduced the keyword "Eek" < 1319905425 459294 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319905432 216211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, that did what= < 1319905434 964935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1319905443 422288 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember < 1319905454 524699 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember a variable that stuck to the pointer < 1319905484 179640 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there were instructions for more advanced arithmetic than increment and decrement < 1319905511 392554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found what I was thinking of the other day < 1319905538 563780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was npiet-foogol < 1319905583 567556 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disappointed in that it wasn't an esolang < 1319905639 973513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How goes the piebott? < 1319905643 700580 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly < 1319905650 528864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can connect now < 1319905653 853066 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not much else < 1319905678 672133 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely sure why < 1319905734 209868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought of something... < 1319905735 573553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. < 1319905750 431431 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you "writing" it with an image editor, or the presumably-much-easier-but-cheaty piet-assembler way? < 1319905763 773196 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switching between the two < 1319905781 39334 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go now < 1319905783 249928 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye < 1319905785 272196 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319905811 488325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319905839 400455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1319906091 257228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1319906124 612896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you going to use the shreds for? < 1319906418 794944 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319906449 919123 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: real programmers use MS paint. < 1319906490 817021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's just ais. < 1319906553 868125 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only real programmer < 1319906573 442537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:09:53: Or, to make it more dynamic, wipeout_text("Hello", 3, 0) or something. (See: http://p.zem.fi/ka4r ) < 1319906573 764650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1319906575 338847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1319906588 360289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's funny because you haven't seen ais' ms paint ai < 1319906649 846211 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want to see it < 1319906665 83581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: so, should I bother reading this stuff about orthogonal persistence you wrote; I suppose what I'm really asking is, did you begin understanding how it works between last time and writing this < 1319906710 220473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, strange that lambdabot didn't tell you that you had messages when you spoke < 1319906724 895346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it did < 1319906729 238502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1319906731 605434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really strange. < 1319906733 291605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to clean these glasses < 1319906735 421765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1319906764 799708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, BFS doesn't work with systemd according to the arch linux wiki page about systemd. < 1319906773 692665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit about systemd < 1319906787 416709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it's cgroup shit < 1319906790 667941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1319906792 298265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses cgroup shit < 1319906796 312951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except systemd i guess :P < 1319906796 607417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except systemd < 1319906799 917792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1319906807 513409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good, now yo don't have to modify ini files < 1319906809 376039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfs saved you < 1319906812 150933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1319906845 252408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't use bfs though. Why not just list the daemons in /etc/inittab hm... Oh wait it doesn't do deps does it? < 1319906861 280557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one runlevel per dependency < 1319906861 390860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319906862 563212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319906871 980761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah and isn't there like 6 max? < 1319906896 185183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it kind of annoying how -git packages can'tbe updated normally < 1319906899 117187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was less limited you could probably pre-compute the run levels by a tool from dependency info < 1319906901 401205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'t/'t / < 1319906907 243461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I don't know any way around that. < 1319906920 497018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also find it annoying how they have a pkgver, rather than just a pkgrel :) < 1319906948 335283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I messaged ais about the server issue. It connects fine, and my client send the HTTP headers, but the server never replies. < 1319906957 158867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a strange way of breaking < 1319906965 412218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for me yesterday :) < 1319906977 714372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how did you update tup-git, I thought the maintainer had to stand down or something, or did thy < 1319906978 464573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1319906988 650853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he had done that. It was abandoned < 1319906992 142892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1319906995 28586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this button saying "adopt" < 1319907008 750160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I check the PKGBUILD, decided it wasn't too much work, and fixed it < 1319907008 898519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think something like the aur should have owners anyway
< 1319907017 519847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I understand the basic principle, sure. < 1319907025 920220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what to have instead, but it's not like the current model is trustworthy at all < 1319907042 872462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should either look more like ubuntu ppas, with the username used to install and the ability for multiple people to package the same package name < 1319907049 650485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more like a "normal" repo < 1319907050 152840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319907056 178931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the former is preferable < 1319907063 1867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it avoids a lot of trust issues < 1319907064 299843 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say it matches what you have in mind, as you haven't really explained that completely, and you're probably still figuring it out. < 1319907077 403234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, what I have in mind is the standard definition < 1319907080 60216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you have ipv6? Also check if you can reach the c-intercal download page... < 1319907089 312926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't now, and no why? < 1319907094 297100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I understand stood well before the end of the last time we talked about it. < 1319907099 851365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1319907108 260032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, you were wrong a lot < 1319907113 156630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens. < 1319907113 575447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I was worried it was a failure for ipv6 service only. Except with the way it failed it would have been really strange < 1319907134 212051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might run on that dd/sh httpd < 1319907140 920865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't a joke) < 1319907141 9197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319907144 230250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hadn't fully considered what the adustment entailed in terms of the rest of the system. < 1319907149 939734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, not a joke) < 1319907158 619113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ok i'll read it. < 1319907162 166384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:57:45: so in a orthogonally persistent system, it makes more sense to explicitly delete than it does to explicitly save. < 1319907162 308004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this is correct < 1319907168 884189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, dd/sh... Wait, no netcat? How does dd+sh allow sockets? < 1319907176 841525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it used netcat i think < 1319907181 432762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe bash's /dev/tcp < 1319907182 334729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so dd/sh/netcat < 1319907183 905282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:00:28: maybe to help people who aren't familiar with that paradigm, [...] < 1319907190 481617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think /dev/tcp allows listening < 1319907191 393278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not interested in the rest of this line :) < 1319907197 97786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember, or they changed that < 1319907204 250115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"auto-delete mode, so that they disappear without the user thinking about it whenever it's appropriate for them to disappear" < 1319907207 660500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is the worst idea ever < 1319907217 787904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once they're named then they continue as persistent denizens of memory." < 1319907220 499276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write a gopher client using bash < 1319907222 436563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, this is the literal opposite of what you want < 1319907235 991591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that things don't get deleted without asking < 1319907253 143763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay, how about this: aren't there some bits of "user data" (what would typically be files) that are in fact intended to be temporary, where it would be more natural for them to implicitly delete themselves upon some condition? I suppose this could be handled by garbage collection. < 1319907262 924852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, this isn't even about orthogonal persistence, even apple have figured this out, try and get rid of an untitled document in TextEdit without explicitly closing it < 1319907270 730039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including by crashing the computer < 1319907272 275418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1319907292 229820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, how can it not be lost if the computer crashes at that point? < 1319907297 110745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have ever had your computer crash and thought "fuck, I just lost data", then you understand < 1319907321 674700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: okay, how about this: aren't there some bits of "user data" (what would typically be files) that are in fact intended to be temporary, where it would be more natural for them to implicitly delete themselves upon some condition? I suppose this could be handled by garbage collection. < 1319907322 720939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose the case where I record of information with the intention of not saving is rare. indeed. < 1319907328 221168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer isn't a mind reader < 1319907329 924015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway there /is/ temporary data. Most of that is not directly user-visible though. < 1319907332 641818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot tell when you no longer care about data < 1319907352 390385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess he means stuff like .pid files? < 1319907358 891027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "user data" < 1319907361 854330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1319907363 777235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is talking about word processors < 1319907365 399906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was in the logs < 1319907367 87910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1319907414 397226 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the case of some programs you can tell when I start to care about it. This is how the traditional model works. Before you make the first save, it assumes you don't care. For a word processor in an orthogonally persistent system, this could be the "first commit" (assuming the word processor uses version control, which it totally should) < 1319907419 91874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway are you saying you won't lose an unsaved file in TextEdit should the computer crash before you save it? < 1319907427 444403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm quite interested in learning how < 1319907440 726271 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I'm going top-down, starting from how the user interacts with the system. < 1319907448 202867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in various situations. < 1319907452 337051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of those situations. < 1319907455 911628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unsaved = the user hasn't saved it < 1319907482 88857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah, no, the experience of someone working on something for ages without saving then losing it is ubiquitous and shared by everyone except probably Vorpal < 1319907491 560132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and what I mean by "first commit" is more like "first major revision", or tag, or whatever. < 1319907506 481448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would get tons of citations for this and have in the past but don't have them now so you'll just have to accept i'm right :) < 1319907511 90468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:25: also, since there's no traditional hierarchical filesystem I suppose each individual program would have a component that manages its (what would usually be called) files and allows them to be "opened" (not really much of an open anymore; requesting better nomenclature) for use. < 1319907511 257328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :application-centric interfaces are completely obsolete, in an orthogonal environment this is made explicit in the code if you try it < 1319907514 848454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. But I'm referring to what you said above: " i mean, this isn't even about orthogonal persistence, even apple have figured this out, try and get rid of an untitled document in TextEdit without explicitly closing it including by crashing the computer" < 1319907524 380936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because you have to emulate a ton of pointlses bullshit) < 1319907528 636897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, I answered < 1319907534 930119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, you answer: how can it lose the data? < 1319907563 455529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, that's what I mean. < 1319907570 573554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by power loss (assume a desktop, so no battery) or a system bug causing the normal execution to end in an unintended place < 1319907581 326268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you talked about a "program" < 1319907582 454961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the code implements its own filesystem without trying, more or less. < 1319907597 712841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, why would that cause it to not be able to access the data after a reboot? < 1319907599 117087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless it saves to a temporary place after every keypress (oh my think of the SSDs!) you can't avoid that < 1319907613 145414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I still am holding on to this concept because I don't yet how it's sane to not logically divide code into... something. I usually call these things programs. < 1319907616 355703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a function is a kind of program. < 1319907624 8798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and even then, there will be a tiny delay between a key press and it actually writing it out to disk where it could fail < 1319907633 698329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh. so you _don't_ actually understand still < 1319907653 544581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that particular part. < 1319907660 516768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh! I see, we're going based on the assumption that you have the necessary reflexes to crash a computer milliseconds after typing something < 1319907679 561462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but accidents like power losses can happen at any time. < 1319907714 166509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps if you could explain how this works without programs, or point me to an author who has already volunteered his/her precious time on the subject. < 1319907714 421372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't type anything worthwhile in a hundred milliseconds < 1319907720 766867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so while triggering it manually would be hard, it doesn't protect against the unintentional case always. Even if we (sensibly) ignore such things as the disk dying. < 1319907728 253518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: get off my back for a minute i'm busy dealing with Vorpal < 1319907733 841761 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1319907743 864984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no rush. I'm a patient person. < 1319907755 942690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, but does it actually save the file all the time? What are the SSD wear implications of that. You have to write a full block every time < 1319907775 66557 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDs usually handle their own wear pretty well. < 1319907790 652875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people need to stop being paranoid about ssds < 1319907797 274930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but this causes quite a lot of strain on the SSD, not on the level of swap on ssd, but still < 1319907814 26295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what kind of SSD we're talking about of course. < 1319907819 977776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDRAM SSD has no problem with any of that. < 1319907837 527771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, NAND-based SSD? < 1319907850 828994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, flash < 1319907875 992377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery backed ram (which I think is what you suggested above?) is rather uncommon < 1319907902 698943 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they handle their own wear, like I said. Though there are more writes in this kind of system, it's not really much more than what a regular system does. < 1319907911 939355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches the occasional spikes on his disk usage meter.
< 1319907914 875954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:08: the only problem I can see is that programs could easily become possessive about their various documents, which would typically have free access by any other program but now must be explicitly shared. < 1319907915 20577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:19: good for security, I guess. < 1319907915 93326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:15: without a system-wide component to make these "files" available to other programs, you basically end up having to reinvent data sharing over and over instead of serialization/persistence. < 1319907915 93493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :application model is obsolete, etc. etc., of course it sucks < 1319907935 453155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:31:35: CakeProphet: programs are so 60's though < 1319907935 731979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:31:47: oklopol: I.... no. < 1319907935 804620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:31:57: they are a retarded idea < 1319907935 804720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:32:11: I think programs are... a good idea? < 1319907935 804767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:32:14: from a user's perspective < 1319907936 526274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:32:20: you would be wrong < 1319907942 608471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is correct as always < 1319907951 48085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:32:24: from a programmer's perspective programs make perfect sense. < 1319907951 216224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a programmer's/my/ < 1319907965 670484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:32:49: in any case how do you logically divide code. < 1319907965 807850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:33:13: err functions and shit? < 1319907965 880297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:33:35: just like i always do when i program < 1319907965 880369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:34:06: what i don't do is write multiple programs that interface each other clumsily just to have a nice logical division < 1319907965 880414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:34:15: programs are a retarded idea < 1319907967 667627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol remains correct < 1319907987 161708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose the main problem I'm having with this system is how do I pass around control flow? continuations? < 1319907992 355825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what model are you suggesting instead of programs? Something like the squeak vm? < 1319907998 939059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:05:42: yeah try piping instead. < 1319907999 48898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:06:01: since using -e gives you the exec format error thing. < 1319908000 426147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a different language of course) < 1319908013 673756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's totally unrelated to this topic. :P < 1319908014 99806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet doesn't realise that pipes aren't bidirectional, and Ngevd isn't here but just needs a wrapper shell script < 1319908044 834679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not allowed to just grill all of my statements, only the relevant ones. < 1319908054 54997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is called logreading < 1319908073 82304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or some completely different model? < 1319908095 511100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:23:09: according to RFC: USER : < 1319908095 583368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is obsolete < 1319908105 209577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CakeProphet: I'll answer after I finish the more important task < 1319908107 265245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. logreading < 1319908112 959844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1319908113 368304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe, now that I've basically removed the concept of application, I now see how this might work. < 1319908121 419229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:28: Ngevd, only IRCNet actually uses RFC 2812 < 1319908127 201026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everyone supports the newer USEr command though < 1319908136 65761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yeah < 1319908141 738936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but in full I mean < 1319908142 391256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/r/R/ < 1319908145 403940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1319908149 785239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something involving continuations I imagine. your code bits can communicate via functions, or, well, any other data they want. < 1319908153 995711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:45:28: As far as I am aware, netcat has stopped working < 1319908154 194751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:49:38: Hang on. < 1319908154 267263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:49:38: Is freenode up? < 1319908154 267446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:50:51: fungot, am I here? < 1319908154 267550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1319908154 701753 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the only type is the type of brainfuck cells is not specified where this delimiter is! nothing to churn the rest of the java framework in linj because i found the schemewiki. < 1319908184 458096 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client when I design, I try making it closely as possible to the RFC. < 1319908190 27288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1319908190 537634 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1319908206 804259 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a lot of things are by macros anyways < 1319908210 311768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the difficult part is still.. understanding how the entire system coherently fits together. But, then again, I'm not really sure I completely understand how that works in a typical system. :P < 1319908212 473728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, typed brainfuck. < 1319908233 250167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:23:29: Also, I just saw today's IWC < 1319908233 365760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:23:33: * Taneb sad < 1319908236 579017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I WAS RIGHT < 1319908238 604755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS RIGHT < 1319908240 91983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL ALONG < 1319908242 50338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAAHHAA < 1319908251 436919 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone on this channel once tested it and found that my client is the only one following the RFC? < 1319908257 477616 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319908261 183499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will continue, in a different form < 1319908268 843600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not as a /webcomic/ < 1319908271 259376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319908273 319275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true :( < 1319908274 601925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so is preemptive multi-tasking even a thing here? < 1319908281 562505 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant < 1319908283 725391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it is sad. I liked iwc. < 1319908284 606463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: god i just told you that i was logreading first < 1319908287 173583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)iiisso < 1319908288 379363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: CakeProphet is wrong, a pipe won't work < 1319908291 372433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a wrapper shell script < 1319908297 854109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you want to read the log. netcat doesn't work like CakeProphet suggested < 1319908308 623553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't bother reading the log < 1319908309 308518 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE INTERNET! < 1319908311 116497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: put this in a file: < 1319908313 658112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1319908316 479126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pietinterpreter ./bot < 1319908321 260829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then chmod +x that file < 1319908327 270778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nc.traditional -e ./thatfile irc.freenode.net 6667 < 1319908348 803068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you could make it work with fifos. < 1319908354 989968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:29:05: The parentheses in the topic are unbalanced. Argh < 1319908355 186763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know who mccarthy is < 1319908366 140647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently the fact that my IRC client follows the RFC annoys some people? < 1319908368 667122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Lisp inventor? < 1319908370 367480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ) is symbolic of the ending of an era etc. < 1319908373 563028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1319908374 739236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1319908374 889676 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319908389 707888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why there are two )'s though. < 1319908394 994431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit of a mixed metaphor if you ask me. < 1319908402 607867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc ... fifo2, and then pietbotwhatever < fifo2 > fifo1. Something like that should work < 1319908407 552456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Gregor added that stupid thing < 1319908412 461617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fifos are hideous < 1319908414 769134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:53:46: let's try a HEAD. < 1319908414 916078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:13: just "unknown command", and GET did nothing. < 1319908414 988302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:28: maybe it's special-cased to only do a thing at connection initiation time. < 1319908421 641954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie goes lowercase in nc conditions < 1319908423 510486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay you could do it with bash fd magic I think too < 1319908436 714332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or -e < 1319908440 467593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure < 1319908442 260335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I die I want a close parenthesis on my tombstone. < 1319908442 561083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tie(1) < 1319908443 965097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else. < 1319908444 834601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(preferable) < 1319908446 774388 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be all artsy. < 1319908449 870130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but then you need a wrapper script (for -e) < 1319908458 637719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you could use socat I think < 1319908460 172124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so tie(1) :) < 1319908466 279401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is so flexible that it is hard to use < 1319908478 107920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I die I don't want a tombstone. < 1319908489 483360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot zzo into outer space! < 1319908499 925828 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to die < 1319908505 967504 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! Reuse the body. < 1319908507 91625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tie(1) < 1319908511 650606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wish I never was born at all < 1319908517 898934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1319908528 101025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind dying right now. < 1319908529 968285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not. < 1319908531 354493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err: < 1319908532 226103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1319908532 389450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : tie - merge or apply WEB change files < 1319908536 393632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1319908549 806291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ tie < 1319908550 12997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is TIE, CWEB Version 2.4. (TeX Live 2009/Debian) < 1319908550 85497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) 1989,1992 by THD/ITI. All rights reserved. < 1319908550 85647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: tie -[mc] outfile master changefile(s) < 1319908550 494876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tie is totally a Perl thing, the word can be used for NO OTHER PURPOSE. < 1319908551 61149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's a dumb tie, remove it < 1319908556 66655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tie (c) Perl < 1319908565 503972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it is from TeX < 1319908572 686215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumbe < 1319908587 377299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let me know when you logread to the point of our latest conversation, so we can continue our conversation. < 1319908588 691323 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be useful if you have multiple change file for a WEB program < 1319908591 863185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it would likely break stuff. Which tie do you refer to < 1319908606 890712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, once you reach the end of the log, you could probably just continue logreading, quote what I say, and reply < 1319908614 586581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tie p === fix (p |) -- with sharing < 1319908615 107328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the time you reply I will probably have more material for you to logread. < 1319908628 557469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format of change files is the same for WEB and CWEB < 1319908631 958162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ergo (tie 'nc host port | bot') = (tie 'bot | nc host port') = bot | nc host port | bot | nc host port | bot | ... with sharing < 1319908648 478522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My way of getting Pietbot to work was nc irc.freenode.net 6667 < botpipe | ./bot > botpipe < 1319908650 549762 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked < 1319908659 502514 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-223.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319908665 194344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: -e is nicer, also botpipe has to be a fifo there < 1319908665 369275 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-60.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319908672 420050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1319908708 34585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319908711 397993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now back to arguing < 1319908718 829102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I suppose the main problem I'm having with this system is how do I pass around control flow? continuations? < 1319908724 261413 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I totally have no intention to argue, but okay. < 1319908726 281090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "pass around control flow" < 1319908727 107338 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try -e again < 1319908732 639085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, what model are you suggesting instead of programs? Something like the squeak vm? < 1319908733 261297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, with a wrapper script < 1319908735 878205 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319908735 950655 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when five minutes have happened < 1319908740 124830 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there we go < 1319908745 814967 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319908746 864125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i suppose it will pretty inevitably become clear as i try and figure out wtf CakeProphet is on about, so... < 1319908748 44570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, 5 minutes? why? < 1319908755 937246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter now < 1319908763 598413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so not that then. < 1319908766 106386 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was when I would give up on Pietbot < 1319908792 360636 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pietbot < 1319908812 193517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say stupid things when you say its name does it :( < 1319908817 74423 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1319908820 639423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is that < 1319908823 155470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: a jab < 1319908825 32172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: against fungot < 1319908825 394587 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's intended. the idea is simple: merge-pathnames is a good idea, < 1319908830 90834 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should have a deadfish interpreter < 1319908832 151669 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)q < 1319908835 986088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not against fungot!!! < 1319908836 482731 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: to go off and do their own thing, here. bf is too slow for it to use < 1319908838 550298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should make it quit < 1319908844 325349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uh < 1319908846 186864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, well, it isn't working < 1319908852 557806 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot friendship < 1319908852 960857 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: computer in what manner to combine them. < 1319908862 339225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay so one chunk of code lets the user edit text files, another chunk probably plays music, another probably loads and displays web pages, etc. There are a lot of unrelated bits of code that are probably not cooperating in any way. How are they scheduled to run with the semblance of simultaneity. < 1319908862 998611 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you've identified the main problem < 1319908868 577270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, heh < 1319908884 188626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I see! when you said you'd stripped away the concept of program, you meant: I haven't < 1319908886 497947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper < 1319908887 443677 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.frikateers.com/ bilder/ sr/ 001/ hw1.html here's the assignment, contains the picture is all black. < 1319908914 517716 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so there is no such thing as multitasking? that is not a thing anymore? < 1319908929 196687 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319908931 259088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nethack?-) < 1319908954 595428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: so are you just gonna say "so what you mean is Y" for every X that I say < 1319908954 729587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :catnet < 1319908958 808171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where X is totally unrelated to Y < 1319908959 793823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the entire system is one functional Haskell program or something like that, then you don't need individual program you can just compose the functions you need. < 1319908979 287928 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you "depend" on nethack in the sense that you stop working if you can't play every now and then? < 1319908979 803209 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these kids today, with their long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations...) and how it works. < 1319908980 645906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < 1319908982 756842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1319908982 969365 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1319908984 984804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper < 1319908985 380688 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i like the wiki and is at http://ll1.ai.mit.edu/ shriram-talk.pdf the < 1319908986 649750 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :699) anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper < 1319908995 547747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was under the impression that that's what you were doing, but anyway... < 1319908995 971576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fizzie: these kids today, with their long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations...) and how it works. < 1319908996 642993 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you expect to know the name, trying to install drscheme 207 i get an ordered list of counts of messages/ day each area gets. it's tolerable, though. < 1319908998 55374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :700) fizzie: these kids today, with their long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations...) and how it works. < 1319909008 110624 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: regardless of whether you call them programs or not, any modern operating system is going to manage the execution of code that performs these kinds of tasks for the benefit of a user. no? < 1319909017 96497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be organized differently, sure. < 1319909026 744196 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :700 wow < 1319909030 180950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what you say is technically true, but you're about to make unwarranted assumptions based on it being true < 1319909031 109041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they still exist. or should, anyway. otherwise your wonderful perfect system does absolutely nothing useful. < 1319909035 925560 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations < 1319909038 195144 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :700) fizzie: these kids today, with their long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations...) and how it works. < 1319909048 976150 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no others? < 1319909054 134463 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1319909054 207079 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1319909054 759126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs long hair, dope, and silly abbreviations < 1319909080 822378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32223 < 1319909085 790545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I am seeking answers, not trying to make assumptions. when you don't provide answers but instead take what I say and make it sound irrelevant to the system, I learn absolutely nothing and must rely on assumptions. Do you see how this works? < 1319909117 721786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't give you answers if you keep blankly asserting "X must be done and therefore" for various X < 1319909135 811122 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say how the assumptions are wrong < 1319909188 166793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically I suppose I'm asking: how does multitasking exist without processes. < 1319909209 677849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake "threads are processes" Prophet < 1319909222 410740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not when they're of the not-even-wrong form < 1319909230 57635 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake "threads and processes are programs which don't exist anymore apparently" Prophet. < 1319909263 136241 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy "help whats happening this is stupid" monqy < 1319909266 603235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake "threads [...] are programs" "I'm not actually putting words into his mouth any more at this point" Prophet < 1319909269 277409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy "monqy" monqy < 1319909299 391129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "I'm being tricky and perverse" hird < 1319909311 639037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tricky and perverse
< 1319909322 396251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hird < 1319909347 439055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I.. don't know where to go from here. < 1319909358 517137 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott too tricky and perverse for you? < 1319909385 675293 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should go work for GNU. Then you can say "Well, HURD may not be my middle name, but HIRD is my last name" < 1319909389 151933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper <-- gah the typo < 1319909389 735211 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: brainfuck program taking too long. < 1319909393 56838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat of course < 1319909415 209362 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, don't all brainfuck programs < 1319909415 683780 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: kuribas pasted " sqlite3 fnord" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord)? conceptually, at least afaik < 1319909418 215524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation is similar to trying to peek around to the other side of a large infinite brick wall that reaches up to the ceiling of an infinite room. I can only walk along its side until I find a door, but I haven't found it yet. < 1319909431 853070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you should go work for GNU. Then you can say "Well, HURD may not be my middle name, but HIRD is my last name" < 1319909433 783119 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no jackhammer or explosives. < 1319909439 64261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i don't think gnu is a corporation < 1319909446 862858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: deep. < 1319909449 731607 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make it a corporation < 1319909453 275297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those kinds of things are allowed in this metaphor. < 1319909456 393349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aren't < 1319909458 314472 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then go to press conferences < 1319909523 956985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, you know how you were putting off reading IWC? < 1319909530 359417 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly get Canonical to make Ubuntu HURD, and then work for them < 1319909530 951054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait. < 1319909531 403957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1319909532 204113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess < 1319909537 80637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's only doing annotations now? < 1319909541 442894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You heard? < 1319909548 248790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I'm just a genius. < 1319909578 437836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you have MISSED YOUR CHANCE now. < 1319909597 235614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm basically just not finding a distinction. < 1319909598 32052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : You heard? <-- yes, he log read above < 1319909602 838396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FSVO missed your chance. < 1319909613 344130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, I read new IWC strips, I just haven't bothered binging yet. < 1319909627 89129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1319909640 696870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does it make any sense that way < 1319909642 597152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: forkIO (threadDelay 1000000 >> putMVar foo "abc") -- this is a thread so it must be an application < 1319909656 507797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because the plot didn't advance for years? :P < 1319909663 451599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1319909675 472852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because until around two weeks ago IWC was a gag-a-day strip. < 1319909690 791631 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in "there are no programs but instead these sequences of code that do unrelated tasks and execute concurrently" and "there are programs and they exist as sequences of code that do unrelated tasks and execute concurrently" < 1319909698 381155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You forgot the universe-blowing-up plotlines. < 1319909711 967405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, plotline, singular. < 1319909721 939144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fair enough. < 1319909723 45394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah good point, the plot was going forward when I began reading it. It was around when the fantasy theme first went through that portal thingy between the two villages. < 1319909740 748787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean well over a year ago? < 1319909745 987962 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not an application, but if you put a "main =" in front of that you have defined a program. < 1319909746 147431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More, even? < 1319909752 374897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah < 1319909770 936223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You use program to strictly mean "concurrently-running sequence of code", and then switch to "something like a typical GNOME application" < 1319909771 324548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the plots all moved forwards without actually getting anywhere. < 1319909774 353723 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I registered my account on the forums in 2007 < 1319909779 962369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I feel that the fantasy theme got a somewhat abrupt ending. Got through that swap way to quick < 1319909783 652354 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do? < 1319909787 882281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So because I assert that there are concurrently-running sequences of code, you insist that "oh there have to be text editor applications". < 1319909802 930222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"okay so one chunk of code lets the user edit text files, another chunk probably plays music, another probably loads and displays web pages" < 1319909806 532973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god don't tell me you're trying to explain @ to CakeProphet. < 1319909807 822723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier, you talked about a word processor < 1319909813 87802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not at all. Rather, there must be a program that edits text, or as least part of the process of editing text. < 1319909816 293867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, I can't prove you wrong because you're conrtadicting yourself! < 1319909823 417465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: woot, you just switched back over to the other definition < 1319909832 92386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been using the first definition the entire time. < 1319909840 844416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it is a meaningless distinction.. < 1319909845 369930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1319909846 191654 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first place. < 1319909851 939065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent running sequence of code == WIMP application < 1319909858 705528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why CakeProphet: forkIO (threadDelay 1000000 >> putMVar foo "abc") < 1319909865 607888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an application < 1319909878 432110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that UI. look at those menus. < 1319909891 983165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really mentioned applications. I've been talking about programs. concurrent running sequence of code == program < 1319909898 263643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :text editor == program < 1319909902 882715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a composition of many programs. < 1319909903 55892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, OK, look, you know Jade's OS in Homestuck? < 1319909907 698166 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure. < 1319909912 111434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's @. < 1319909913 205317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That has applications, you dolt. < 1319909944 704069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you saying @ doesn't have applications or is CakeProphet. < 1319909950 393088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am. < 1319909959 693957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ innovation < 1319909959 862722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck would I be saying what @ has < 1319909960 681327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The application-centric model has been obsolete for approximately ever. < 1319909966 897300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I don't even completely get what elliott is talking about. < 1319909997 127358 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want @ < 1319909999 639581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stand back, I have an idea. < 1319910001 206081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can several ways it can drop the concept of applications. Which way do you do it? Please don't make the entire OS like a huge mathematica notebook with everything insertable everywhere in it. Actually do it, it would be quite amusing < 1319910013 747159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, say I'm from the future, and use @, and want to chat on IRC. < 1319910015 994700 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CF60.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319910018 89690 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I do that? < 1319910029 968399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not with an application. < 1319910032 1323 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say. < 1319910033 12402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sure. < 1319910034 941409 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future, all problems have been solved < 1319910045 408026 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thanks @" < 1319910055 11505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: In the future we use telepathy but I GUESS I can pretend the future is totally inferior as soon as I respond to Vorpal??? < 1319910058 250529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Shut up @ is the best. < 1319910075 565936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume some functions will be bundled together into something resembling a conventional application? < 1319910077 253813 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe I'm a history buff < 1319910087 733621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope! I thought you understood @. < 1319910087 908645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it's the best ;_; this is why it has solved all problems ;_; < 1319910092 847106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well there are a few other obvious way to drop the concept of applications, probably quite a few non-obvious as well. < 1319910102 831398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That just makes me think of Archy zoom UI stuff. < 1319910106 213085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re: Notebook. < 1319910110 859349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1319910116 22869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nononono, I mean purely conceptually. < 1319910120 55865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is "Archy zoom UI"? < 1319910137 381628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? < 1319910139 407707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware we were discussing anything other than concepts... -_- < 1319910139 693712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'll DDG it < 1319910139 765866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you'd never use some of them without others. < 1319910152 997834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's like Canon Cat but newer. < 1319910157 907143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also dinner. < 1319910159 104325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that only works if you know what the Canon Cat is. < 1319910162 254536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any pretty pictures that anyone can see of concept for @? < 1319910165 513653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alas I'm not familiar with that either < 1319910175 979461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: OK give me a minute and I'll answer your question. < 1319910233 238097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there is one thing that always seems to end up like an application to my mind. And that is games. If @ gets big people will want to play 3D RPG/FPS/racing/whatever games on it. < 1319910268 133180 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I just have a loose definition of what a program is. < 1319910373 972230 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my mind a function is a program. a function can invoke an entire application. in my mind application means "a program that computes things relevant to a particular human-oriented task" < 1319910387 746413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: @'s UI, as I've previously stated, isn't actually fully decided yet; there are a great many directions it could go in and I need to narrow the field after I've worked out some details about the internals. But note that the original subject of this "discussion" wasn't actually @, so I'll just pick one possible non-application-centric UI: something similar to Emacs. Here's one way it could go: You would press some shortcut key for "open", typ < 1319910387 947991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e in irc://irc.freenode.net/esoteric, and it would load up a buffer containing the channel, which would then be interacted with by writing into it (if you've used ERC, similar to that). You could then open other channels in other buffers and manage them with screen-splitting and the like just like with regular Emacs. (This probably isn't what @'s UI will look like, but it's one possible non-application-centric orthogonal-persistence-supporting UI.) < 1319910434 217383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than the notebook at least < 1319910510 135784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, what about a full-screen 3D FPS game for @. Would that not qualify as an application in some senses of the word application? < 1319910546 770597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know elliot's definitions of program and application. they are apparently different from mine. < 1319910557 60493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Only with a bad definition of application. Some aspects I could imagine changing, e.g. you would probably create and manage Minecraft worlds outside of Minecraft, and simply open them when relevant, but that's a very minor distinction. < 1319910572 204503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319910597 772346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think that's your definition of application, because you react with incredulity whenever I suggest that there is no such thing as a word processor as you know it. < 1319910645 59317 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe you ever made that suggestion. < 1319910660 105167 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1319910667 824171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so assuming you wanted WYSIWYG editing of a letter for printing. What would you do on @? Just out of pure interest. < 1319910794 217243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: removing old concepts without replacing them doesn't suddenly make everything clear. it just leaves a void to be filled. < 1319910795 850759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WYSIWYG is overrated. It'd be possible, but I'm disinclined to work out how, as it probably doesn't fit too strongly into the @ model of things. < 1319910805 821276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sure it does. < 1319910828 152510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's honestly not that difficult to explain something in terms that someone with a slightly different perspective can understand. < 1319910837 744162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If there was a decades-old operating system principle that every OS had a big picture of a cow in the top-left corner of every system, removing that would be an obvious improvement with no need to be replaced. < 1319910837 839739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, if we drop the WYSIWYG requirement then? I would need some sort of editor for writing LaTeX code or some other system in < 1319910843 988415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without demanding they already understand it in order to proceed, essentially. < 1319910864 939151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, anyway, re applications. < 1319910874 317833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was a principle that every text box is split into subboxes of five words long, and it was impossible for them to interact without manually moving between them, removing that would be an obvious improvement. (Hint: This is a metaphor for the application-centric model.) < 1319910881 14126 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pictures of cows in the top left would be great < 1319910885 425431 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the improvement would be adding more cows < 1319910886 126983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us suppose one wants to browse the web. How would one go about this? < 1319910889 999593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yes but CakeProphet is awful and would not agree. < 1319910900 326840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes you would replace it with something. Be it black pixels or extra area available to display other stuff. < 1319910924 518225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm really bored of these sorts of questions since this is the third one I've been asked in the last five minutes. Especially since the web basically contains a bad implementation of several of @'s principles, so it's a fairly ugly mapping. (But a possible one.) < 1319910926 937826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay we have not really been talking about different things this entire time. < 1319910943 414062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : If there was a principle that every text box is split into subboxes of five words long, and it was impossible for them to interact without manually moving between them, removing that would be an obvious improvement. (Hint: This is a metaphor for the application-centric model.) <-- sounds like entering CD-key on Windows 9x < 1319910954 278202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in CakeProphetLand applications can have absolutely no barriers between them and still be applications. < 1319910955 896049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1319910956 582661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, browsing the web is irrelevant. Use IRC instead. < 1319910957 280529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an exciting place to be. < 1319910969 994786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I literally just answered that, so logread or whatever. < 1319910989 440785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319911000 380653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, they have the restriction of being applications. Applications are boxes that neccessarily restrict functionality into operating within their confines. < 1319911033 202569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, in any case, I didn't even want to talk about applications < 1319911039 269010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about programs until applications were mentioned. < 1319911042 544257 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, isn't that a good thing? Modularity, composability through uniform interfaces, etc.? < 1319911067 8866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have all of those things without applications. < 1319911118 492714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319911127 654415 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think you're being unnecessarily hand-wavey about @ and the user experience of it. < 1319911166 822679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in a system where applications no longer communicate in streams of encoded character data, but with data structures, I'm not really sure there's a restriction there. < 1319911176 14255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, what is your definition of an application. To me it is a set of code designed to display (on some output device, such as a screen or a Braille display) some arrangement of pixels (or whatever said display uses, obviously not pixels for a Braille display) that the user can interact with using input devices in a meaningful way to perform some action that has a meaning in the human world. < 1319911200 590842 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :People ask "how do you do X?" and the response is "well, you don't, at least not that way" with nothing substantive afterward. < 1319911229 672885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, download for c-intercal is down. < 1319911258 220287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your fault? < 1319911258 354302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1319911261 626233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... no < 1319911262 582618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1319911262 725159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal said 2h 29m 46s ago: It seems that the http download server for c-intercal (overload.intercal.org.uk) is down (at least over IPv6, trying anything else is somewhat annoying). I don't know who < 1319911262 862050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can fix that, but maybe you do? < 1319911270 902574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a rebel
< 1319911281 130843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: intercal.org.uk is run by Claudio Calvelli < 1319911290 144669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, you presumably know who to contact then? < 1319911295 685381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know his email or anything < 1319911316 680251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been down all day < 1319911332 933281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: clc@intercal.org.uk < 1319911356 481757 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-60.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319911364 617321 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-101.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319911369 215634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't care enough to mail yourself? Anyway elliott confirmed it was unreachable over ipv4 too < 1319911410 181360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, I don't care enough < 1319911414 632503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the development source is still around < 1319911417 840606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: would you please shut up, or haven't you cottoned onto the fact that nobody wants to talk to you? < 1319911420 388742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it even has tags so you could get specific versions < 1319911437 245208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not easy for making a package < 1319911467 174744 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't really mind. As far as I'm concerned, you're just text on a screen. < 1319911467 735550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to demand complete and detailed answers about an operating system that's in very very early stages of development. < 1319911478 39713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I think you joined about ten minutes ago in the middle of this, know almost nothing about @, and are also intolerable to talk to, so... I guess we both have problems. Also related to the first statement there, you don't actually realise that this was never actually about @ in the first place because you have missed about 90 percent of it, so responding to what you said would basically be a painful trainwreck. < 1319911484 774190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll answer Vorpal instead. < 1319911535 17733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, anyway, what is your definition of an application. To me it is a set of code designed to display (on some output device, such as a screen or a Braille display) some arrangement of pixels (or whatever said display uses, obviously not pixels for a Braille display) that the user can interact with using input devices in a meaningful way to perform some action that has a meaning in the human world. < 1319911549 820522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Application" is basically universally used to mean "WIMP-style application", even by those who claim to have a more broad view of it :) < 1319911560 594425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unless you consider wc an application. < 1319911572 513268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I, don't use that definition. < 1319911574 553714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I don't. < 1319911576 889831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. < 1319911588 647348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What about < 1319911588 783132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand by my definition of a program (obviously this needs tweaking for @) which requires direct human interaction for normal function. < 1319911589 688984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id < 1319911590 668880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> a < 1319911592 846262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1319911627 651372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is a different meaning of application, if you are talking about applying a function to something. It doesn't interface with an user unless you run it from ghci or similar. < 1319911628 419324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I see our miscommunication now, and perhaps understand a little better what you mean by a lack of applications. < 1319911641 706592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wc :: String -> (Integer, Integer, Integer) < 1319911653 816804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you consider Emacs an application? < 1319911654 368739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wc is exactly as much of an application as id is. < 1319911660 945882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (With your definition.) < 1319911661 353119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, if ghci is the user interface then wc is an application, and so is id < 1319911679 548890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know which definition of application we're using; Vorpal has one far more general than most people's. < 1319911692 378844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use mine, it is the best < 1319911697 758978 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh how interesting, are we discussing the definition of the word application? < 1319911698 86449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: neither do I, that's why I'm asking questions to try to find out < 1319911717 181816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No. < 1319911720 742212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the solar time is really an Arabic Part formula! (but with equatorial coordinates rather than ecliptic) < 1319911726 866565 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good. < 1319911739 814078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but if you mean WIMP application, yes indeed, it might not be there. That said, WIMP style application could be appropriate to some situations I guess, I haven't seen any evidence that it can't be. < 1319911744 456994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: CakeProphet decided to use two definitions simultaneously (one of which I have no idea what it is) and now everyone else is on a journey to self-discovery to figure out which definition they use. < 1319911750 600145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of stuff is shoehorned into that < 1319911763 142299 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not true. < 1319911774 339649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used exactly one definition of application. < 1319911777 687560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Relatedly, CakeProphet has been saying things are not true a lot. < 1319911795 238120 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me that it must be, even though I can find nothing about it in anything about sidereal time, solar time, Arabic Parts, or whatever. < 1319911832 707739 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatedly, I think I'll go watch DS9 instead < 1319911850 152066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Spoiler: Bashir's hands are magnetic. < 1319911867 612970 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: typically involving claims elliott has made involving me. (Is it okay if I speak indirectly through you?) < 1319911880 438058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? cool. < 1319911911 332611 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it was revealed early in season 2, so it's not a huge spoiler. < 1319911929 593799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway while wc may not end up as a /program/ (running in a separate memory space, if that concept is even relevant in your model), there has to be some sort of separation between, say, a piece of code that has login information loaded and minecraft-for-@ < 1319911955 103327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does oerjan know about Arabic Parts? < 1319911959 557389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1319911962 855616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask him about them. < 1319912029 558061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I still fail to see how something like a game would not end up as an application in the sense that you are using. Or are you saying that just because a game doesn't have a menubar on the top it isn't an application already? < 1319912032 119762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I did find the panel with Jade's OS and it has conventional applications; I retract my objection to elliott's objection. < 1319912047 117527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides I know games that have menu bars. Freeciv iirc is an example of that < 1319912047 787503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what time is oerjan on? < 1319912051 243183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thank god < 1319912056 368132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION salutes america
< 1319912076 717233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plays "God Save The Queen".
< 1319912087 676203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, how do you figure a game is not an application in your sense of the word? < 1319912088 182886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I always confuse God Save The Queen with the wedding march. < 1319912105 348217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: games don't act much like applications anyway, outside of their main menu interface (which is erratic by normal os statements), anyway it's stupid because you're just doing the thing wher you latch on to a specific case and generalise it to the whole thing :) < 1319912117 941194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"games are KIND OF SORT OF KIND OF like WIMP applications, therefore @ is impossible" < 1319912121 458492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: conceptual and time separation, sure, but not actual system separation, I think? as in, they're just code sequences that aren't really barred from communicating between each other in ways that components of an application do. < 1319912138 635159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott demonstrates again his "I hate you die :)" tendency. < 1319912145 320393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand correctly, the entire operating system sort of acts as the only real application. < 1319912145 393273 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would depend on the game, I think. < 1319912150 747252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1319912177 113096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@: the wimpiest os < 1319912177 261886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v < 1319912184 482127 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes lambdabot thank you < 1319912198 554668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol < 1319912213 598334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please stop me whenever you want. < 1319912332 829921 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a system that is really a Haskell program that you install various modules, and then compose functions, and the typeclasses can also be used to make one function work with another, and so on..... < 1319912380 315138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a beautiful system < 1319912383 602442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it isn't < 1319912385 898233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw you can remove the !makeflags thing < 1319912408 429400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sh dependency looks dubious < 1319912410 39956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how many programming languages do you estimate @ will obsolete upon its fierce yet magnanimous inception. < 1319912417 775124 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319912425 876686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean by obsolete < 1319912453 932491 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make all of their application-centric stuff no longer making of sense. < 1319912511 625788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a Haskell function calling a Perl subroutine and my brain kind of explodes. I guess. < 1319912547 112556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ won't support most programming languages as natively as @lang, if that's what you mean. < 1319912566 880345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1319912590 301291 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I meant, but it clarifies my question. < 1319912632 372084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1319912653 940493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: btw you can remove the !makeflags thing < 1319912654 132483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and that sh dependency looks dubious < 1319912655 706645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what? < 1319912658 450195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-intercal? < 1319912664 172104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1319912666 312987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think the sh dep was because of -F < 1319912670 455107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which generates a shell script < 1319912673 779561 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also some of the stuff I said earlier: I noticed you didn't really refute anything I said. Is that because I'm correct or because you got tired of me being wrong? :P < 1319912674 560752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that produces the same output < 1319912677 134555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a dependency on some shell < 1319912681 78946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sh-compatible < 1319912685 777604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think there's a dependency on cat < 1319912685 850018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not a dependency < 1319912698 295376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: otherwise a gcc cross compiler would depend on the target cpu :) < 1319912698 808367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I can't update it until the site is up < 1319912709 119680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it was a dep not a makedep? < 1319912714 146010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the sh dependency for? < 1319912718 30516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're confused about what a makedep is < 1319912723 350864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is a /compiler/ < 1319912728 801611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the dependencies on the output code are irrelevant < 1319912729 883807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one that is needed when building ick < 1319912732 784251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319912749 349762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: like, if you packaged an intercal program, c-intercal would be a makedep < 1319912752 584581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sh would be a dep < 1319912755 32145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was compiled with -F < 1319912766 652412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I won't touch the thing until the download is up again < 1319912767 629326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sh is needed while compiling the program too, IIRC < 1319912785 698416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, why? < 1319912797 597373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it uses a wrapper script during the test run, I think < 1319912801 932019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway sh could be removed because it is implied by base I think < 1319912802 715910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it doesn't, I can't really remember < 1319912805 344144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is curious about the cat dependency too :P
< 1319912824 394778 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no use reinventing the wheel. < 1319912841 11142 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well depend on an incredibly trivial piece of code. < 1319912936 627924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you say the email was again? < 1319912943 587908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have time to send one now < 1319913010 256443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, never mind, I'm getting a headache... bbl < 1319913025 829314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because the shellscript calls cat < 1319913037 68580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the wrapper one? :P < 1319913052 423154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1319913054 408188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably < 1319913059 137868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all I know it calls diff < 1319913065 116409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no it doesn't, that would be stupid < 1319913067 945987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it possibly calls grep, though < 1319913079 338244 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sisko on a space sailing ship talking about how it's absolutely quiet ... but they're still playing that background hum < 1319913130 879879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The ship doesn't make that hum. < 1319913131 786244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sisko does. < 1319913138 274798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all the fuming. < 1319913147 542786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, ok < 1319913174 56067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, have I ever mentioned that that was the episode that led to me concluding that the Cardassian Occupation was basically DF in space. < 1319913174 883945 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but how can he be making that hum on ds9 when he's out space sailing? < 1319913218 22453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you have no idea how loud the hum truly is. < 1319913251 379951 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you have mentioned that, I wouldn't know you were speaking about this episode as I have not yet seen it < 1319913256 591318 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319913272 246438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, the hum on DS9 is caused by Bashir's hands. < 1319913273 40374 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I ignore everything about dwarf fortress (if that's what DF stands for) < 1319913310 652482 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319913328 193124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1319913330 512001 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should definitely call off @ in favor of a totally more awesome text-based game than df. < 1319913340 418553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EC is more awesome than DF. < 1319913345 449746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF isn't text-based, you dunce. < 1319913351 463866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can argue about minute conceptual differences for hours. < 1319913360 625934 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as what a text-based game is, apparently) < 1319913375 986082 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "text-based" < 1319913397 423462 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in textual IF? < 1319913405 995800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "help what is english" < 1319913415 22971 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know? < 1319913428 154877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what IF stands for. < 1319913446 473690 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319913463 537157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "help what is english" < 1319913480 840028 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319913509 818110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's Sollux. < 1319913520 25831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah, yes. < 1319913530 757803 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if as in interactive fiction < 1319913534 841090 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the only if < 1319913537 812855 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry can't expand arbitrary sequences of characters into non-ambiguous phrases. < 1319913568 48576 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no being interactive fiction has nothing to do with also being text-based. < 1319913578 203089 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interactive fiction can have pictures. < 1319913582 949481 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence textual < 1319913617 359732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose interactive fiction is text-based, but there are plenty of other kinds. < 1319913634 159395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially where text/characters are used in favor of, well, "graphics" < 1319913659 376121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes something text/characters instead of "graphics" < 1319913663 932913 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUDs, rogue-likes, some interactive fiction, dwarf fortress. < 1319913669 956210 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would consider roguelikes, for example, to be graphical < 1319913679 57121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: being composed of text and characters instead of other things that are made of pixels but aren't those < 1319913690 788991 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a dumb distinction < 1319913707 913683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1319913755 657999 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319913851 731907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else could I distinguish between Dwarf Fortress and Grand Theft Auto or Solitaire in a way that specifically refers to the type of graphics. < 1319913868 967801 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319913932 712251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tile-based. < 1319914004 352837 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319914008 614247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that works. < 1319914017 90262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also heavily text-based. < 1319914027 687953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you use a graphics set. < 1319914038 49337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that checkers and minesweeper are not. < 1319914061 45865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose with a graphics set is becomes half and half. < 1319914064 325786 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1319914064 998096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't distinguish between games based on graphical representation < 1319914069 392010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That the default tiles are drawn from CPwhatever. < 1319914079 720552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is irrelevant. < 1319914086 696496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's a pretty valid distinction, dude. < 1319914093 778638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1319914099 387101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C437 contains tons of non-textual gaphics. < 1319914100 403700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphics. < 1319914109 942488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a fairly minimal graphical tileset that happens to use alphabetics and punctuation for many things. < 1319914115 815911 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I meant. < 1319914124 842891 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:47 < monqy> please don't distinguish between games based on graphical representation < 1319914130 306587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has nothing to do with C437 < 1319914160 281639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319914201 809846 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D, 3D, graphical, text-based, isometric, top-down, sidescroller, first person, third person. these are all graphical distinctions. < 1319914220 897805 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :games can be essentially the same (hereby refered to as equivalent) yet have multiple graphical representations < 1319914238 499933 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think we've argued enough semantics for today. I'm going to go do something else now. < 1319914247 962159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319914248 570006 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1319914258 562819 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd want to distinguish graphical representations of a game, not distinguish between games based on grahpical representations < 1319914260 259235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He shouldn't've clicked that link. < 1319914261 681133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1319914290 593066 :Siebenzack!~siebenzac@p54866880.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319914310 60485 :Siebenzack!~siebenzac@p54866880.dip.t-dialin.net PART :#esoteric < 1319914316 629028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I see what you're saying. < 1319914317 435333 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bye < 1319914340 741436 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with different graphics sets DF is still pretty textual. < 1319914356 2475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the information, and heavy use of menus. it's probably half of the game. < 1319914373 110896 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the style reminds me of other strictly text-based games I've played. < 1319914376 585026 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you njeed a better definition of textual < 1319914378 172272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that use only ASCII. < 1319914399 637818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1319914400 572387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy hi < 1319914402 249684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1319914450 920515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd only consider things strictly text-based if they were just that. they use only text. no characters acting as graphics or anything. pretty much just natural language. like textual IF. < 1319914480 706427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if using graphics may be considerably text-based too < 1319914488 523560 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how the graphics are used < 1319914678 250924 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still believe a game like DF would highly benefit from a command-line interface similar to a MUD but more featureful. < 1319914693 506344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conjunction with the menu system. < 1319914716 851225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about an IF game that occasionally shows an ASCII-art map? < 1319914721 774344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a couple of those < 1319914738 821990 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319914757 97485 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the map doesn't dominate the game or anything I think it would still be text-based < 1319914775 928331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's a case of you do "x map" < 1319914783 743472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shows you what the map looks like < 1319914789 11799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything else is text-based < 1319914809 624268 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have many text-adventure games in my computer. < 1319914994 634652 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319915060 796279 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319915075 175674 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319915086 930522 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Ngevd. < 1319915093 406394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, systemd gets a few things right, but I disagree with it on several points even beyond it using ini files < 1319915336 697149 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319915388 951328 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319915491 467253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1319915526 525180 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319915530 60915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: e.g. I don't buy the argument that double-forking processes are a reason to use cgroups; services should be written to account for these things < 1319915536 932162 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319915544 113045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I find the "create sockets and pass them to the daemons" thing ugly < 1319915549 345408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it depends on daemon-specific support for it < 1319915606 188087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do agree that shell scripts are the wrong mechanism -- this actually makes me think that more that configuration management system might be suitable for the job, since you would use the build script language to write services in, and that would be the package language, not shell. < 1319915767 490542 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319915822 75952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the language in question need relevant constructs to support stuff like "monitor this process I just started and restart it if it dies" < 1319915857 136376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No? < 1319915862 96821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1319915866 6879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the service manager's job, not the job of individual services. < 1319915866 118810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to do that < 1319915871 325704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1319915881 400737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to tell that the process is not supposed to exit < 1319915887 80908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it is, then it needs to know that < 1319915888 404558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's like saying systemd can't work because ini files can't do that. < 1319915907 281557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for example, if you run mount(1) you don't want to restart it when it exits :P < 1319915944 589949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the difference between a daemon and a startup script. < 1319915945 178723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no? I'm just saying that you need relevant stuff in there. Something that is just a build script for package management doesn't have the right tools to deal with daemons. Close yes, but not quite < 1319915985 803975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the model, of course the implementation needs support for it. < 1319915996 616326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway sockets for a daemon could make sense. For example, something like postgresql allows connection to it over unix sockets. IIRC it is slightly more efficient than tcp/ip over loopback. < 1319916002 44387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But anyway, no, you're still wrong. < 1319916010 660120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run = exec "apache" < 1319916015 556151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zomg no waitpid! < 1319916021 498444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming "apache" here doesn't daemonise) < 1319916026 707085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does < 1319916041 271052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an example. < 1319916096 374513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean every package needs to be patched to not daemonise? Seems like quite a lot of work for the package maintainer, especially if it is set up with closing stdio and opening logfiles and so on. And no there is no sensible way apache could log over only stdio. access.log vs. error.log, and that might be per vhost < 1319916122 718951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Come on, this is patently stupid. It was AN EXAMPLE, and most packages support not daemonising too. < 1319916125 590946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319916128 715390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1319916130 884909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And daemonising =/= just using stdio, shockingly.) < 1319916149 977077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1319916191 357859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what about daemons that actually consist of a bunch of different processes. Typical IPsec daemons consist of a bunch of different daemons started together. Would you split that up as several scripts (or whatever you decide to call these descriptions of services) < 1319916248 906406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh I guess I was thinking of daemontools. It does logging for the services running under it using their stdio iirc < 1319916255 220022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite nice when it works < 1319916630 330339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1319916643 631020 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1319916674 761286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, anyway what about daemons that actually consist of a bunch of different processes. Typical IPsec daemons consist of a bunch of different daemons started together. Would you split that up as several scripts (or whatever you decide to call these descriptions of services) < 1319916689 756128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, a service description can be pretty lightweight; but anyway it's not hard to add waitpid :P < 1319916696 615152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, oh I guess I was thinking of daemontools. It does logging for the services running under it using their stdio iirc < 1319916702 645959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's nice but can be implemented on top of existing stuff < 1319916750 522616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when the hardware clock in PCs will roll over < 1319916825 247474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html good god look at that comparison < 1319916830 852633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised there aren't a few rows of "is systemd" < 1319916878 464463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: another cool thing with my system: you could use the package manager ui to control services :) < 1319916894 463651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1319916908 765564 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319916910 997002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could actually be nice, if the manager is designed for it < 1319916918 495260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I'm unable to find info on how many bits a PC hardware clock has < 1319916920 742600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to prompt for stopping a service, for instance < 1319916960 733883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my lol < 1319916964 105483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: scroll down on that page I linked < 1319916964 616499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCM < 1319916970 22864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysvinit [red] Subversion < 1319916974 808717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstart [red] Bazaar < 1319916977 296544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd [green] git < 1319916980 240443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1319916984 581311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1319916988 391475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a joke < 1319916991 729199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poettering is so full of shit < 1319917011 809470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1319917030 157907 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bazaar is simply a PITA for hackers who work on all sides of the OS, because it is not just much less usable than git, but also yet another tool to deal with. Quite frankly, I don't want to care about VCSes, they should just work, and not get in my way. And git is pretty good at that. bzr not, and it requires me to learn even more stuff. But anyway, this story is not about bzr, but it's fun to see how easily people are to tick of with a little < 1319917036 236304 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour. Before I posted this we actually bet that this would be the first thing people would comment on -- and they did! Consider it candy for the trolls... < 1319917046 718025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "bazaar is simply a PITA for hackers who work on all sides of the OS" < 1319917050 683647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much sensemaking. < 1319917068 344863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One thing I don't like about the early-socket thing is that it breaks if the buffer overflows :/ < 1319917079 604187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes that is nasty < 1319917083 734529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Parent-Italian teacher association? < 1319917091 837979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: pain in the arse :P < 1319917095 167796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really, all I want is upstart with deps instead of events < 1319917111 193853 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't far off < 1319917127 208137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Meh. Writing shell scripts isn't much fun. < 1319917140 731827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, upstart isn't really shell scripts, it is a custom language < 1319917143 196172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fairly easy < 1319917145 380594 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, "Specialized professional consulting and engineering services available" < 1319917146 90516 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I took that as referring to how most things seem to be in git these days < 1319917151 702870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319917155 675378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yeah, but there's shell scripts in the body I think < 1319917157 314853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, they tend to be less than 10 lines including any comments < 1319917161 154078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really looked at upstart because its design is stupid < 1319917167 146685 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a Piet IDE and I don't know what it is < 1319917190 757275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Apart from everything Canonical does, such as upstart :P < 1319917195 152619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And, uh, Mozilla. < 1319917196 140697 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like text-adventure game < 1319917204 898886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh btw, I don't really care about boot time that much. From grub to login prompt (I use startx) takes less than 10 seconds on my desktop anyway. And that was before switching to the SSD for the system < 1319917207 955379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And Python. < 1319917210 346815 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's installed on my Windows partition, but is otherwise really good < 1319917222 580979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now it takes like 7, because almost all that time is spent waiting for DHCP < 1319917236 659578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Start network asynchronously :P < 1319917240 390928 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1319917247 171014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And darcs; why are we talking about this? < 1319917251 399714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah well there is where arch model breaks. Deps for starting in background < 1319917255 924495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nobody uses darcs < 1319917262 699562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My point is that no way is everything in git these days < 1319917267 348372 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say everything < 1319917277 14514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, shrug < 1319917283 119141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hope that was an approximate nobody < 1319917283 367193 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And I'm not defending him, just interpreting what he said :-P < 1319917286 575403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What daemon do you actually have that needs to connect to the network at bootup < 1319917302 969218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fair enough... but the VCS is still irrelevant in every way :P < 1319917303 650099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hell, button to grub is like half a minute for me. Due to having three of those add-in bioses loading. And quite a lot of disks < 1319917333 337665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Boot time doesn't matter much to me but the higher it is, the more likely it is that time is being wasted at boot < 1319917334 67159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ipv6 tunnel. ntp. And iptables needs to load after network or the rules won't find the stuff to apply to < 1319917344 782915 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's "yet another tool", so not quite in every way, but in practice it should be fairly irrelevant < 1319917347 166500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means your service manager is bad :) < 1319917348 164006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1319917351 828656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319917363 326696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yet another tool for all ~0% of people who will check it out :P < 1319917365 80256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes indeed. I'm just saying that 10 seconds is a non-issue. Sure, even faster would be nice. But it is pointless optimisation as it is. < 1319917378 690846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yep < 1319917381 10093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now my laptop has a slower disk and takes quite a bit more to boot. That would be nice to have it boot faster. < 1319917388 109822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of that time is spent reading from the disk < 1319917390 354405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's not irrelevant in the server space; minimising downtime and all that < 1319917428 708313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes indeed. But why aren't you using a cluster anyway so you can reboot some of the stuff without affecting the whole < 1319917434 759050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess I'm probably going to end up implementing this packaconfigurservice manager after all... < 1319917529 64656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm does daemontool do dependencies? It doesn't does it... < 1319917560 259295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1319917598 765318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I still think that an init supporting lots of runlevels and precomputing /etc/inittab would be the most awesome solution < 1319917614 937187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least, the most silly < 1319917632 380143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only does upstart-style, not dependencies :) < 1319917648 374842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319917650 487193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1319917681 175060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if PCSM might be implementable as a Haskell DSL...
< 1319917684 870195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed no, but I might be wrong. < 1319917685 724948 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319917694 744641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that said, upstart style makes sense for some stuff. Example: no need to start a daemon for printing until you get an event about that a printer is connected < 1319917700 680840 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6000.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319917721 471061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's another thing Lennart is right about: That's better expressed as an available service, rather than instantaneous events < 1319917728 218089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319917728 380951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printer-is-plugged-in < 1319917740 491235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it starts, "runs" (the printer stays plugged in), and then stops < 1319917744 420921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually it doesn't work for printer, there are network printers that the user might want to access < 1319917756 141344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When printer-is-plugged-in is running, you want printer-daemon to be running < 1319917787 916917 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319917791 433280 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is printer-is-plugged-in different from printer-daemon itself < 1319917819 342667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The former comes from whatever manages devices < 1319917819 506534 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or why, I guess < 1319917823 223151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is some kind of multiplexer on top of it < 1319917838 90643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Consider printer-is-plugged-in vs. gnome-printer-magic and kprinterwoot < 1319917838 862184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have multiple instances of printer-is-plugged-in I guess < 1319917847 381557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of the latter probably should be started < 1319917850 735108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you use both gnome and kde programs < 1319917860 746770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was considering cups here < 1319917866 248393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the daemon to be started < 1319917878 51785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the latter two probably depend on cups :) < 1319917885 207377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm an xfce user, don't we get anything? :( < 1319917899 589233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's exo-print or whatever but I don't have it installed here < 1319917905 654856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use the core xfce4 stuff < 1319917907 217418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus some extra < 1319917925 200166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which comes down to the setting manager, the panel, the WM, exo-open, Thunar, and a terminal :P < 1319917935 833360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm printing from firefox works without any magic but cups installed as far as I remember. < 1319917947 619966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless firefox starts that itself < 1319917963 315645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without being root? < 1319917967 996245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1319917985 957477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would you need root to print using cups? < 1319917994 414848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fair enough < 1319917995 697429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of crazy setup do you have < 1319917998 606696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had to be root to run the daemon < 1319918002 895695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use printers < 1319918012 676277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to be root to start cups yes. < 1319918018 237415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not to talk to cups < 1319918033 722201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did I mention that PCSM does user-local installed packages trivially, while still sharing the disk storage for identical packages installed by multiple users??? SO GOOD < 1319918042 417474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCSM? < 1319918052 275025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Packaconfigurservicemanager! < 1319918053 518264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway nixos does that < 1319918058 890789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1319918060 68689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1319918061 263252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so does tiny core iirc < 1319918077 335176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can NixOS run daemons in the right overlay FS so they only see their dependencies and config file??? < 1319918085 762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As well as whatever else they're specified to need) < 1319918085 827098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1319918096 512625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No it can't, 'cuz NixOS just uses upstart :P < 1319918099 222331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that weird distro I forgot the name of. That does one directory per package < 1319918104 504889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay < 1319918104 757344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gobo. < 1319918111 191200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that Gobo can do per-user packages. < 1319918112 279615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319918119 289786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought it could? oh well < 1319918122 887165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used it < 1319918126 444093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it can. < 1319918127 453778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't trust me on that < 1319918151 218008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this actually generalises to per-user services... e.g. your "login" service would depend on xfce4-sesion < 1319918153 789274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but nixos could potentially do it. Do per user stuff and have one user per daemon < 1319918158 676264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, x-login I guess < 1319918164 635637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your .xinitrc would just start that < 1319918166 87403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an idea < 1319918173 867086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit this runs into a bit of a problem with "how the hell do we deal with this thing needing root" < 1319918192 375945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daemons probably shouldn't ever run as root anyway :P < 1319918201 706794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from init... or pcsmd :P < 1319918211 688104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, cron need to be able to execute jobs as root < 1319918214 934289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although even with init it can run almost always at lower privileges. < 1319918223 410816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you wrote in the system crontab < 1319918229 778604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: True. < 1319918260 158204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a few more need it in practise. Like ntp. Maybe it could be converted to use those fancy new linux capabilities thingies. Not sure. < 1319918270 459875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anyway, I don't know how the per-user stuff under nixos works. < 1319918277 523032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be tricky doing it for daemons < 1319918289 489403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is done with PATH magic in the profile for example < 1319918300 243633 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319918300 315833 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319918322 363757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh @ people with broken clients flooding the channel. < 1319918328 35812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"systemd has a minimal transaction system. Meaning: if a unit is requested to start up or shut down we will add it and all its dependencies to a temporary transaction. Then, we will verify if the transaction is consistent (i.e. whether the ordering via After/Before of all units is cycle-free). If it is not, systemd will try to fix it up, and removes non-essential jobs from the transaction that might remove the loop. Also, systemd tries to suppress < 1319918328 108251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : non-essential jobs in the transaction that would stop a running service. Non-essential jobs are those which the original request did not directly include but which where pulled in by Wants type of dependencies. Finally we check whether the jobs of the transaction contradict jobs that have already been queued, and optionally the transaction is aborted then. If all worked out and the transaction is consistent and minimized in its impact it is merge < 1319918328 975492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d with all already outstanding jobs and added to the run queue. Effectively this means that before executing a requested operation, we will verify that it makes sense, fixing it if possible, and only failing if it really cannot work." < 1319918335 434891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Poettering must have some really broken systems. < 1319918361 498985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1319918369 481157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319918385 346643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he started out writing a db engine, then didn't want to throw away the code < 1319918407 1291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319918424 403069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sunken costs sank the code < 1319918452 768729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway init, cron, ssh and kdm/gdm/whatever are examples that need to be able to switch to any other user. Which in practise means they need to be root. < 1319918470 403774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyyy, pcsm makes a pretty nicely-typeable executable name; maybe I should actually call it that. < 1319918479 299151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sigh @ people with broken clients flooding the channel. < 1319918483 505209 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MANY THOUGHTS < 1319918486 422712 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH < 1319918493 439886 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: brain on fire < 1319918496 179384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1319918497 660921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could @ people have broken clients? that's platonically impossible! < 1319918504 502941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Har har har. < 1319918507 508652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1319918545 954895 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you know if solar time can be an Arabic Part formula (in equatorial coordinates)? It seem to me it is the same kind of things. < 1319918556 149776 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even know about solar time or about Arabic Parts? < 1319918587 850197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 2104 0.0 0.0 37224 864 ? Ss Oct23 0:01 /usr/lib/postfix/master < 1319918601 76310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it needs root to deliver to mailboxes? < 1319918602 615994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww anyway < 1319918611 83012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :udevd of course needs root < 1319918633 687053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: postfix is like ten million daemons though < 1319918633 947206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i have no idea what an Arabic Part formula is. < 1319918639 209160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which only one runs as root, I presume < 1319918650 195268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, master seems to be its own supervisor < 1319918652 982091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1319918686 976363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway if you plan on making your own linux distro, good luck getting away without udev. I think it will be quite a pain if you want stuff like gnome, kde or xfce to work. Especially with automounting usb sticks and such < 1319918705 806999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 1859 0.0 0.0 28360 1340 ? S Oct23 0:01 /sbin/wpa_supplicant -u -s <-- why on earth is this root < 1319918718 52863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux automounts usb sticks? < 1319918730 455702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes, distros like ubuntu do anyway < 1319918732 722200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nahhhh, udev only took over recently. < 1319918740 788656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop doesn't. It runs arch. Never bothered setting that up < 1319918747 215140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway I can have udev without udevd; BusyBox has an implementation. < 1319918754 227205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh! < 1319918757 71248 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my ubuntu is broken in some way then, haven't seen it do that < 1319918764 488759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (With its own config file) < 1319918776 225356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319918776 979809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see. Well good luck with that. < 1319918786 940646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll probably just use udev < 1319918793 215458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 25249 0.0 0.0 5088 1584 ? Ss Oct27 0:00 acpid -c /etc/acpi/events -s /var/run/acpid.socket <-- well I guess that might need root < 1319918797 653676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i think mail clients like postfix usually change user to the recipient and drop all privileges as soon as possible? < 1319918801 225318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pcsm can manage it *shrug* < 1319918808 424013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319918813 255185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a joke < 1319918822 694192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except it is usually started from the initramfs or some stuff like that iirc < 1319918832 298126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my dhcp client run as root? < 1319918844 16574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, pcsm can manage the actual device stuff < 1319918851 880452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that why the global mail directory (if there is one) is supposed to be sticky < 1319918861 831271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think I see a pattern here. There are quite a few things running as root because they need to do stuff like raw sockets or similar < 1319918876 184033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's one advantage of early-socket stuff < 1319918882 103457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1319918890 43523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you can do everything on a raw socket opened by someone else that passes it to you < 1319918894 71979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh? How does early-socket help dhcp client? < 1319918900 219537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It helps raw sockets < 1319918907 340766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful, but hm < 1319918914 668814 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Haven't you used Astrolog though? An Arabic Part formula is the angles of three objects, two of them added together and one subtracted. < 1319918923 446157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pcsmd opens raw socket, passes to daemon < 1319918925 607166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there is the hardware access class of daemons. cups, acpid, udev, wpa_supplicant. < 1319918949 859806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wpa_supplicant needs both hardware access to configure the wlan card and raw sockets I think < 1319918953 729733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so did you decide whether it should be selectNext or moveNext < 1319918954 338779 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhcp client needs to write into /etc/resolv.conf < 1319918961 525838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, Astrolog does not allow the user to define their own Arabic Parts. < 1319918962 968389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartd needs root because of hardware too < 1319918977 195858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not on my system. < 1319918984 526656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, local dns server. < 1319919013 144097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make a program I would include the feature to define your own Arabic Parts, for ecliptic as well as equatorial coordinates. < 1319919014 852996 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does the DNS server get its remote DNS servers < 1319919016 665463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/upower/upowerd /usr/lib/policykit-1/polkitd udisks-daemon: polling /dev/sr0 <-- what are these anyway < 1319919022 748997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of u things < 1319919035 530667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is a recursive resolver. It has a list of the root servers. < 1319919038 747066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it seems to work < 1319919047 975038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and a lot better than using my ISP for resolving < 1319919080 141677 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1319919093 183195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but sure, most often /etc/resolv.conf has to be written by the dhcp daemon < 1319919107 116144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that couldn't be handled quite easily by permissions though < 1319919176 26523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks almost every file owned by root should at least have a different group and be group-writable
< 1319919189 395425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. /etc/resolv.conf might be root:dns 664 < 1319919192 585276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i used astrolog to make that agora-horoscope and its automatic interpretation. i didn't delve that much deeper into it, i think. < 1319919250 55358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh wow, the biggest bullshit was from the top of the post < 1319919252 222532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first big distribution with systemd by default will be Fedora 15, due end of May. It is expected that the others will follow the lead a bit later (with one exception)." < 1319919254 316913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah. Still dhcp needs raw sockets and ability to mess around with interface config < 1319919255 983115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with one exception links to ubuntu < 1319919257 651411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And obviously (as far as I can see) you did not change any of the settings from the defaults. < 1319919275 510356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and routing tables < 1319919276 757376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1319919304 698668 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319919359 988018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, does anyone know when the IBM PC clock will roll over? And if it still the same on modern PC compatible hardware. < 1319919367 98607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the hardware clock < 1319919383 81040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well obviously selectNext :: Cursor -> Maybe TreeCtx and moveNext :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor, used wherever appropriate < 1319919400 288842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh good. and what's the implementation of one of those :P < 1319919419 859168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the context for this? < 1319919454 167080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trees < 1319919472 675693 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :r/trees? < 1319919474 644752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it has three ways to display the angles (zodiac positions (the default), hours/minutes, or 360 degrees), can work with ecliptic (the default) or equatorial coordinates, can display a horizon view, can display solar system view (with no zoom, unfortunately), animate to real time, timed exposure, a globe of the Earth, ability to change the glyphs for Uranus and Pluto, and more. < 1319919475 536213 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319919566 987757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i also got thinking about that Top thing. < 1319919581 699226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, what about it? < 1319919623 702748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, I really don't think pcsm can work as a haskell dsl :( < 1319919632 857674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping i could avoid writing my own language :) < 1319919661 196376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no radians?! < 1319919700 236717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, writing a bison grammar is quite easy < 1319919721 996768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why the hell would I subject myself to a yacc derivative, let alone C? < 1319919739 797650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we made data Cursor = Branch { left :: [Tree], right :: [Tree], tag :: Tag, up :: Cursor } | Top { left :: [Tree], right :: [Tree] } < 1319919746 47682 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it does not support radians display. If you want, make a wiki page of the kind of features you would want and if I make up my own program, based on Swiss Ephemeris, I might consider some of the things listed there (although there are some things I would deliberately omit, and some which I might or might not want or not know how or have time to implement at first) < 1319919753 989933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well be happy then < 1319919760 107385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the top can be a list of trees < 1319919760 453822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um what would that mean < 1319919764 497063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or be parsec I guess. < 1319919769 14696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: still means I have to implement a functional programming language < 1319919778 406736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, but that isn't the case in reality.. < 1319919779 811974 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Swiss Ephemeris library does support radians, however. < 1319919780 548548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, true < 1319919797 169485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...including lots of things like exec and waitpid and other grossness that is No Fun(tm0 < 1319919799 203787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tm) < 1319919805 130983 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At least the standard RTC interface "rolls over" every century, since it only stores a two-decimal-digit year. (It's byte 0x09 in the "CMOS" memory region, either in BCD 0x00..0x99 or just a byte with value 0x00..0x63 depending on bit 2 of byte 0x0B.) < 1319919808 698831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ... I don't really care about that software... Where did I indicate I did?! < 1319919809 668463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the thing is that then you don't need an exception to handle going right from the top < 1319919819 429441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1319919821 510460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, moving < 1319919827 560674 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You didn't. < 1319919833 737221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that offset from 1900? Or did it rollover at 2000? < 1319919851 809806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's nothing to the right of (l :> Up)? < 1319919858 153061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell :P < 1319919866 766162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if anyone does, please indicate list of what kind of feature you would think is good idea and so on. < 1319919887 530309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from what I remember there are 4 digit dates in the BIOS settings of all modern clocks. I guess I could check what hwclock(8) reports... < 1319919940 387584 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a single byte in the original and it's not supposed to go >99. I'd suppose the four digits are just an interface thing. < 1319919962 144071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you need some way for an edit to return a cursor when it has handled the very last node < 1319919963 181636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm.... Is the same hw interface still used? < 1319919975 814370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, speaking of which, is there any place all this stuff is documented. < 1319919991 691767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well < 1319919996 96855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, perhaps. shouldn't moving next be separated from the edit? < 1319919998 475615 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For the CMOS-memory-area clock, anyway. It could be that there's some other interface (BIOS interrupt driven, or ACPI) that you can use to get more digits. < 1319919999 111047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just a mix of various standards. With no single official source for it < 1319920000 547935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's part of the traversal < 1319920006 378463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1319920008 186938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: consider: you can't go "backwards" even if the edit does handle it < 1319920011 703689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you start at the first node anyway < 1319920025 142781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can find the CMOS data area documented at http://bochs.sourceforge.net/techspec/CMOS-reference.txt < 1319920035 317321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now, what about < 1319920037 823873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, the edit does the moveNext, so that it can return a cursor. < 1319920043 922202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is hardly official. But hm. < 1319920048 681647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but maybe it _shouldn't_ < 1319920068 622755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Cursor = Branch Tag [Tree] [Tree] Cursor | Top Tree < 1319920070 246092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about that? < 1319920074 270692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1319920077 173755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data Cursor = Branch Tag [Tree] [Tree] Cursor | Top (Maybe Tree) < 1319920077 383685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why does this remind me of sql cursors... < 1319920082 949189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it doesn't return a cursor it has nothing sensible to return if it is _deleting_ something < 1319920102 784054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it can return a different cursor < 1319920111 380707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the select{Left,Right} one, for instance < 1319920113 387658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably selectRight < 1319920121 100048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1319920139 691929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1319920141 228386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight :) < 1319920149 619465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I don't see what you're complaining about, if it deletes something then moveRight always succeeds < 1319920153 46224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless it deletes the root node < 1319920155 707801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't possible < 1319920238 646185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway those bytes in the CMOS won't fit the config data in the BIOS on a modern system. < 1319920251 290539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess there must be more elsewhere < 1319920263 206737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, my desktop even has EFI < 1319920279 958321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, there's all those EDID tables and whatnot too. < 1319920294 362947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait... isn't EDID for displays? < 1319920305 767370 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the other acronym. < 1319920310 479565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which other one? < 1319920311 582849 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the foo was it. < 1319920321 87801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACPI? < 1319920335 47932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why isn't deleting the root node possible? < 1319920388 758705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if it isn't, then perhaps deleting just fails naturally when going next from it < 1319920396 366189 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, there's a thing for the system information tables. The DMI ones, at leas. < 1319920403 258340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1319920429 362796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i mean, deleting fails naturally because there is no cursor to construct < 1319920434 393701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, the BIOS interrupt 0x1a returns also the century, according to the Interrupt List, and presumably current BIOSes track four digits. < 1319920457 190959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319920465 983723 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And of course EFI's different, and I'd suppose it has an RTC interface too. < 1319920482 397771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I'm using the bios emulation of the EFI, because that is easiest < 1319920510 374587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so why does it track decimal digits (implying BCD?) as opposed to a decimal number < 1319920516 388093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err binary number < 1319920518 284845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not decimal < 1319920591 986644 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319920708 41442 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would guess the original clock chips provided a BCD interface, but that's just a guess, and I wouldn't know why. Anyway, the get-time interrupt returns in BCD too. < 1319920731 369413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1319920741 10730 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-042-243.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1319920763 662804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea if linux exports the physical memory map anywhere? < 1319920771 711880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to look at it < 1319920832 614597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is /proc/iomem < 1319920924 866145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CMOS memory exists outside of the normal address space and cannot < 1319920925 81765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :contain directly executable code. < 1319920926 963989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1319920931 891624 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ACPI provides interfaces to the wake-up alarm functions, at least; maybe also to the RTC. < 1319920934 769216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that x86 has a separate IO bus < 1319920939 239256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupidity of that.... < 1319920992 230703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Most of the stuff is memory-mapped; biosdecode/dmidecode go digging in /dev/mem, for example. < 1319920993 334455 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319920998 486230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how did PCs power off before ACPI? < 1319921000 969569 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df test < 1319921018 674659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay new bot < 1319921023 406240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the power switch < 1319921026 61325 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not finished bot < 1319921045 751273 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or APM < 1319921051 284404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah APM of course < 1319921052 769973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319921075 316458 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319921086 45219 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That narrows down where the problem is, for sure < 1319921088 472287 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also hwclock apparently has code to read that CMOS stuff with direct I/O to those ports if /dev/rtc is not available. < 1319921136 951384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/eDPR (laptop) and http://sprunge.us/URYN (desktop). Quite interesting /proc/iomem < 1319921156 327817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes and it doesn't work on anything but 32-bit x86 iirc < 1319921159 387027 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before APM I think there just was no way for software to turn a PC off unless you built it a mechanical power switch switcher yourself < 1319921170 965477 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319921171 203398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh < 1319921175 101871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1319921214 850719 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319921216 343516 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it also works on some Alphas. < 1319921220 261699 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1319921234 220339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh right, the man page says so < 1319921238 414726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anything with ISA < 1319921241 138916 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would someone who knows the IRC protocol better than me tell me this: < 1319921253 379509 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I wouldn't be surprised if there were some pre-APM/almost-APM-but-not-quite poweroff hacks. < 1319921255 76634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think x86 systems will have an ISA bus long after the PCI bus is gone < 1319921268 525536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the powerpc apple PMU can turn a system off, too. < 1319921269 767556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because of backward compatiblity < 1319921285 826732 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a message is sent to the channel, would my bot be able to pick it up as "...PRIVMSG #esoteric :"? < 1319921286 885550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :compatibility* < 1319921298 546876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no? < 1319921299 55420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes. ... contains the user info < 1319921306 177150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you forgot the user info < 1319921315 916805 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what elliott said < 1319921326 264000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1319921343 357728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..." here being ":nick!user@host ", apparently. < 1319921350 171336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319921389 579286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called the "prefix" in the grammar, IIRC. At least I tend to call it that. < 1319921401 98484 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1319921411 917202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319921425 72171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clients do not receive messages themself send to a channel. < 1319921441 940797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle a -> (a -> Maybe a) -> a < 1319921442 319578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap update :: (a -> Maybe a) -> Key -> IntMap a -> IntMap a < 1319921442 532504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1319921442 604557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> IntMap a -> IntMap b < 1319921443 154207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1319921451 474539 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes the message on a channel is received like that < 1319921471 727945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftA2 fromMaybe < 1319921472 588558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => f a -> f (Maybe a) -> f a < 1319921483 554761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph. < 1319921488 960356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> liftA2 fromMaybe (pure x) < 1319921489 650863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => a -> f (Maybe a) -> f a < 1319921501 608665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> liftA2 f . pure < 1319921502 380224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => (a -> b -> c) -> a -> f b -> f c < 1319921504 33102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure < 1319921505 218801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => a -> f a < 1319921507 682591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (a -> b -> c) -> a -> f b -> f c < 1319921508 87500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative liftA2 :: Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c < 1319921508 355913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad liftM2 :: Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r < 1319921508 428747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude zipWith :: (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] < 1319921511 982686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, applicative thingy < 1319921513 826218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1319921523 282207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you searching for? < 1319921530 70239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Kleisli category of Maybe monad similar to a category of partial functions? < 1319921538 897687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a -> (a -> Maybe a) -> a < 1319921544 627020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doing what? < 1319921553 760788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because: < 1319921555 290487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.IntMap update :: (a -> Maybe a) -> Key -> IntMap a -> IntMap a < 1319921555 458188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.Maybe mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1319921555 530054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.IntMap mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> IntMap a -> IntMap b < 1319921555 848872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x f -> fromMaybe x (f x) < 1319921557 556240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those did it < 1319921563 672663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those have that type < 1319921564 924314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you read? < 1319921565 761767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kind of) < 1319921571 377880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (a -> Maybe a) -> a -> a < 1319921571 998714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap update :: (a -> Maybe a) -> Key -> IntMap a -> IntMap a < 1319921572 71407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1319921572 71589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> IntMap a -> IntMap b < 1319921573 478197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, why did it return them then < 1319922067 751630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because hoogle does a fuzzy search < 1319922071 523901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1319922204 211185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1319922208 564191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is annoying < 1319922252 577269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap fromMaybe < 1319922253 388149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (b -> Maybe b) -> b -> b < 1319922295 623130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks < 1319922297 418240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that... work/ < 1319922303 689525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap fromMaybe (const Nothing) 99 < 1319922304 530632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 99 < 1319922308 48937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap fromMaybe (Just . succ) 99 < 1319922309 526399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100 < 1319922312 771181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1319922319 661944 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap fromMaybe < 1319922319 919158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ e -> fromMaybe >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) < 1319922326 318666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1319922328 369500 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1319922329 134061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319922337 696729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how crazy < 1319922345 156068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?unpl doesn't recognize that fromMaybe is a function < 1319922352 828262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it isn't even valid < 1319922361 808924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is < 1319922367 461938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1319922373 982541 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap id < 1319922374 76332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ f -> (\ a -> a) >>= \ c -> f >>= \ b -> return (c b)) < 1319922375 497364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\ e -> fromMaybe >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) < 1319922376 247429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Maybe a) -> a -> a < 1319922390 31375 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm pretty sure it just doesn't care, whether it recognizes or not :-P < 1319922397 382458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_ < 1319922402 276668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap ap < 1319922402 532149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ e -> (\ j k -> j >>= \ h -> k >>= \ g -> return (h g)) >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) < 1319922402 604639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1319922405 637849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hot < 1319922407 797903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap ap < 1319922409 204870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => (m (a -> b) -> m a) -> m (a -> b) -> m b < 1319922415 261524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnh < 1319922416 299311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: try (<*>) < 1319922417 220251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1319922424 576208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl (<*>) fromMaybe < 1319922424 742309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<*>) fromMaybe < 1319922426 573726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1319922437 182820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>) < 1319922437 485535 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl doesn't know about Applicatives :-P < 1319922438 487355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1319922484 787838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Someone needs to write a better pl :) < 1319922498 382641 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319922501 429258 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free < 1319922502 861954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1319922540 868525 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)df iiisso < 1319922551 337597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Pietbot written in Piet? < 1319922555 55503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1319922556 771444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly < 1319922562 450955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May start from scratch < 1319922564 148208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures :P < 1319922565 742803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's written in piet-assembler :( < 1319922566 805771 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we see the code? < 1319922569 862330 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1319922572 586018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1319922574 22890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so hey < 1319922577 334461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remember what i said about iwc endnig < 1319922578 859549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ending < 1319922581 416246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then you would know the password < 1319922584 532118 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see, literally) < 1319922592 883554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i haven't read iwc yet < 1319922599 197132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1319922609 981595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Ngevd was saying no to Madoka-Kaname < 1319922622 877081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah go do so now. You need to. < 1319922624 917703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very sad < 1319922628 463690 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, if no PM information (such as ACPI) is available, the Linux fallback is to try Intel "Trusted Execution Technology" poweroff. Anyway, there are (x86-relevantly) specific poweroff methods for at least ACPI, IPMI, APM, OLPC XO1, SGI Visual Workstation and lguest. (Okay, the last one might not quite count.) < 1319922633 290777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the mythbusters die < 1319922635 368150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ;______; < 1319922639 411816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assembler isn't much good, gonna rewrite it from scratch < 1319922640 61425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dmm dies < 1319922641 399853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends up dying < 1319922643 815230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN REAL LIFE............ < 1319922644 259333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DMM had a car accident < 1319922646 235629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life < 1319922651 160804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, snap, you beat me to it < 1319922651 373204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and died. < 1319922651 445640 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1319922653 992799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his ghost now writes iwc < 1319922664 571927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was a coworker who did it < 1319922667 699329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly < 1319922693 670480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh wait, what about tripple fault < 1319922697 703823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that halts doesn't it? < 1319922722 577043 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it just reboots. < 1319922727 391161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1319922747 885003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway wtf is "Trusted Execution Technology" < 1319922750 31552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Heh, if no PM information (such as ACPI) is available, the Linux fallback is to try Intel "Trusted Execution Technology" poweroff. Anyway, there are (x86-relevantly) specific poweroff methods for at least ACPI, IPMI, APM, OLPC XO1, SGI Visual Workstation and lguest. (Okay, the last one might not quite count.) < 1319922759 262280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc linux actually does it in various non-standard ways < 1319922763 699480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a post about it on reddit a while back < 1319922773 704698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning a computer off is very grotty, it seems :) < 1319922775 577765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think a triple-fault might be a reboot fallback, though. Incidentally, IPMI does have a RTC interface too. < 1319922817 721143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I only ever seen server boards have IPMI. Kind of sad, since the IPMI sensor interface actually reports what the damn sensors actually mean < 1319922826 504728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were the machine_power_off/pm_power_off methods I could find by quick grepping; well, the x86-relevant ones, anyway. < 1319922868 895999 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't be surprised if there were some more quirks for laptops, at least some pre-ACPI invented ones. < 1319922875 505944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319922880 562575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there there < 1319922887 785681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it do if none of them work? < 1319922898 718694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it print "please turn off your computer now" or some such? < 1319923021 46872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i think oerjan may be dead. < 1319923089 271009 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it just stays halted (at least this 2.6.37 I had uncompressed), if tboot_shutdown (the trusted-execution thing) isn't enabled. It probably prints "system halted" or something before trying the poweroff at all, but I don't think I'll bother trying to find that. Might even be just init which does that. < 1319923099 664428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmidecode is confused about my desktop CPU. It reports it as core 2 duo. It is a core i7 quad < 1319923131 840388 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR the "System halted" behaviour from machines that were unable to turn themselves off. < 1319923136 998843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1319923216 408875 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1319923224 380741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, max speed 3800 MHz? I guess it is that turbo mode. As far as I know it is 3.3 GHz normally < 1319923246 558849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPU serial number is "To Be Filled By O.E.M." < 1319923312 383157 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Version: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5600+; Max Speed: 3200 MHz; Current Speed: 2800 MHz" -- well, it's mostly correct, though I don't know where the 3.2 GHz comes from; 2.8 is what the 5600+ is nominally at, and the "actual" current speed is just 1 GHz, thanks to cpufreq. < 1319923318 117903 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those of you not fond of me may enjoy laughing at my expense: my laptop display is fucked and I have to replace it. < 1319923366 172398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd reply, but you wouldn't be able to read it. < 1319923386 828137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, not liking you doesn't mean the same as gloating over someone else broken laptop. < 1319923399 181581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on. < 1319923400 449499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you/someone/ < 1319923405 582556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on. < 1319923408 101269 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :701) I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on. < 1319923410 767893 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, dmidecode from the laptop: "Version: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2720QM CPU @ 2.20GHz; Voltage: 0.0 V". It seems I've gotten one of those rare does-not-use-electricity-at-all processors. < 1319923421 228430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reversible computing! < 1319923437 933189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice. My desktop CPU apparently uses 1.0 V. Which I don't think is correct either < 1319923467 477135 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why wouldn't you assume I have multiple computers? Otherwise I'd be a lot more bent out of shape about this. < 1319923489 96140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, it was, in fact, a joke. < 1319923491 77629 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, you don't want to insult the laptop. < 1319923512 476335 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know, I'm just being a dick. < 1319923522 912668 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Athlon is reporting 1.4V. That might even be close to correct; I think it's 1.35V officially but it could be rounded. < 1319923549 212127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, come on... < 1319923554 647141 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Laptop) "Board is replaceable"... well, I *guess*... for some values of "replaceable". < 1319923561 171585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, I might want to insult it. Depends on the brand. < 1319923569 814443 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Number Of Power Cords: 1" < 1319923583 990451 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no end to the values they've bothered to put here. < 1319923584 917420 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, just an IdeaPad netbook. < 1319923585 202784 :Pietbot!~Pietbot@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319923605 464486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chassis Information: Contained Elements: 0". Uh, right. < 1319923613 844071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, go for thinkpads. They are better. Still not as good as during the IBM times < 1319923617 604388 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lenovo is the one laptop manufacturer I could find that didn't quite utterly fuck up their keyboards...then I went and bought a netbook anyway, because I like pain. < 1319923623 665538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it says the same for my desktop < 1319923649 177739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my chassis info just says to be filled in by OEM basically < 1319923676 137011 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The base board on the desktop is version "x.x". I'm not sure if it's trying to be a dead-guy smiley. (Probably not.) < 1319923706 195892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's Roman Numerals? < 1319923706 268599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0038, DMI type 28, 22 bytes < 1319923706 268785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperature Probe < 1319923706 268892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: LM78A < 1319923706 268995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location: < 1319923706 591044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: < 1319923708 827845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1319923710 800807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is.... weird < 1319923733 956783 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know we have one, we know what it is, but where it is or how it is? Pfff. < 1319923751 46451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319923774 378452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooling Device < 1319923774 556410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Temperature Probe Handle: 0x0038 < 1319923774 628925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Type: < 1319923774 629076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: < 1319923796 65314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lists several cooling devices like that < 1319923805 80445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be optional fans not connected to the mobo? < 1319923809 757100 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the location of the probe is "out of spec"? where have you put that probe Vorpal? < 1319923816 792073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, XD < 1319923834 127824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Power Supply < 1319923834 311842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Power Unit Group: 1 < 1319923834 384391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923834 384547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Name: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923834 384652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Manufacturer: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923835 55582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Serial Number: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923836 605944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Asset Tag: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923838 605588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Model Part Number: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923840 624876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Revision: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1319923842 601673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Max Power Capacity: Unknown < 1319923844 602340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: Not Present < 1319923846 603971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Type: < 1319923848 632346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have a zero power computer too < 1319923853 580462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my power supply is not present < 1319923866 647205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it is plugged < 1319923868 785517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Input Voltage Range Switching: < 1319923868 955956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Plugged: Yes < 1319923929 793288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :any info not directly concerning the mobo is completely useless in there. I guess that is a result of home-built system < 1319923943 405183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it does seem to know the memory modules too < 1319923949 952092 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The laptop DMI tables also have all kinds of ports it doesn't physically have. "Internal Reference Designator: J2A1, External Reference Designator: TV Out, External Connector Type: Mini Centronics Type-14". There's nothing like that; nor is there the "J2A2A; COM A; DB-9 male" serial port, unless they've hidden it really well. Ditto for the DB-15 female (presumably VGA) video, and... uh, well; then there's a pile of strange-sounding internal-only ports. (J9C1 - < 1319923950 24574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCIE DOCKING CONN. J9E3 - LPC HOT DOCKING. J9E1 - SCAN MATRIX. J9G1 - LPC SIDE BAND.) < 1319923977 239527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319923991 51417 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-existing ports are compensated by the lack of the ports it does have, though. < 1319923992 540201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0063, DMI type 13, 22 bytes < 1319923992 725167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIOS Language Information < 1319923992 797658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Language Description Format: Abbreviated < 1319923993 496540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1319923996 100269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on earth < 1319924005 575090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it list the languages the BIOS menus are available in? < 1319924009 248164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the OS *care* < 1319924024 17283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is eng, fra, ger, chs, chi, jpn) < 1319924036 831246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three languages: n|US|iso8859-1, n|US|iso8859-1 again, and r|CA|iso8859-1. < 1319924047 318458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have up to handle 0x64 on my desktop btw < 1319924068 520130 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, the best: "Portable Battery ... Location: Location of the battery" < 1319924073 402626 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319924075 264882 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit it is a true statement. < 1319924077 205124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check my laptop next < 1319924083 406667 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chs"? < 1319924090 610126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "the battery is where the battery is" is not so incredibly useful. < 1319924091 616774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no clue < 1319924091 869918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1319924099 512556 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319924104 210942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like modern macs < 1319924116 846500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the battery is where the battery is and don't you dare touch it < 1319924124 556993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least my laptop has correct vendor info < 1319924149 850469 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also for the battery: "Manufacturer: Battery Manufacturer", "Serial Number: Serial Number", "Name: Battery Name", "SBDS Version: SBDS Version Number", "OEM-specific Information: 0x12345678". < 1319924160 320572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, my laptop CPU family is "Other" < 1319924170 751204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop had core 2 duo listed. My desktop actually has an i7 < 1319924176 290225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :while my laptop has a core 2 duo < 1319924179 7604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it can't list that < 1319924180 549535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1319924187 983809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: All my probes are too. < 1319924194 224792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319924213 80194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a voltage of 1.1 V for my laptop < 1319924220 147499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really would like the zero volt thingy there < 1319924227 706396 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmidecode's main purpose is amusement, I think. (Okay, it *can* usually list memory slot/module details too reasonably well.) < 1319924257 526063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who knows a decent overlay-style fs?? Like unionfs except better. < 1319924259 251970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0017, DMI type 126, 9 bytes < 1319924259 449638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inactive < 1319924263 423933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, uh, cunionfs is pretty much what I want. < 1319924263 535327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have loads of ones like that < 1319924265 824676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor, how's cunionfs. < 1319924266 97324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my laptop < 1319924280 220271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think someone used aufs, but it might well sukc. < 1319924293 234125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0029, DMI type 13, 22 bytes < 1319924293 416253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIOS Language Information < 1319924293 488786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Installable Languages: 1 < 1319924293 489012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : enUS < 1319924293 489122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Currently Installed Language: enUS < 1319924294 360711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1319924309 68816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, there's that and unionfs itself (I understand there's quite the flamewar between the two), but I kind of want something per-process. < 1319924320 39999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because e.g. a user should see their installed packages on the system. < 1319924322 283165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portable Battery < 1319924322 489950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location: Rear < 1319924322 562205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Manufacturer: Panasonic < 1319924329 465334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aww, my laptop has boring accurate info < 1319924340 530211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Panapsionic. < 1319924340 878172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess it's made by a real manufacturer. :p < 1319924340 950300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, everything about the CPU family seems boringly accurate < 1319924350 653319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes. It is a Lenovo Thinkpad < 1319924380 833721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what brand is your laptop < 1319924434 62170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange thing on my desktop. It only lists 6 SATA ports + 1 eSATA port. I have 8 internal physical SATA ports and two external eSATA ports < 1319924439 463468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what is going on there < 1319924455 158171 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's... vaguely defined. I mean, I bought it from some small shop in Germany, and they constructed it out of a skeleton made by Clevo. I also asked them to leave all logos off. So it's sort of a no-name. < 1319924465 129355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319924475 385180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sounds super-reliable. < 1319924491 598598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know _I_ trust small German shops with all my computer needs. < 1319924498 217854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the name of the shop? We'll call it that. < 1319924514 247094 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly who it was, since there were so many to choose from. < 1319924514 490254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thinkpad just have two logos, A discrete "lenovo" on the top of the lid. It is black on black. Just a shift in depth of the surface really < 1319924521 838404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the usual thinkpad logo on the palmrest < 1319924523 130035 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People(tm) said reasonable things about Clevo parts, though. < 1319924549 767183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And the Windows sticker it came with. < 1319924551 741164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1319924563 746927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope. I had to get a replacement palmrest. < 1319924566 414567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacked those < 1319924572 74857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1319924594 792464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, originally there was a small core 2 duo and a small windows vista business sticker as well < 1319924605 717895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which I removed anyway < 1319924632 117022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I have nothing against the thinkpad logo. And the lenovo logo is discrete enough to not bother me < 1319924640 957106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it says thinkpad on the lid too < 1319924642 811723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that < 1319924647 959806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same logo as on the palmrest < 1319924653 300127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't bother me either < 1319924663 412615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My main laptop has... one name on it. < 1319924668 431453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MacBook Air" below the screen. < 1319924672 792974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1319924674 898671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also an Apple logo on the back, but who ever looks there? < 1319924679 588369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Toshiba has many(tm). < 1319924691 651401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you on a toshiba atm < 1319924692 471848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toshiba below the screen, on the back, "Satellite" to the left of the trackpad, < 1319924702 248339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel Pentium Inside", "Windows 7", "Toshiba Easy Media" stickers. < 1319924711 489256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you finally send the macbook off to get fixed? < 1319924718 581294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pentium, ouch < 1319924724 758071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Core 2 Pentiums. < 1319924732 557538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My MacBook Air turned itself off, and then refused to turn back on again, approximately ~3 minutes before I intended to watch EOA5. < 1319924735 996198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1319924740 136099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the idea of a thirteen minute Flash video was just too much for it to bear? < 1319924742 642768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, EOA5? < 1319924751 374588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway did you send it to apple finally then? < 1319924752 896128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know. Hamsteaks. The one that crashed Newgrounds. < 1319924761 190963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you even _read_ a single page since binging? < 1319924777 359056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope. < 1319924780 985813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, haven't had time < 1319924810 401628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll do a second binge next year of the rest of it < 1319924825 184616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is the same way I read freefall. Next binge should be around xmas of that iirc < 1319924833 799694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's done by next year. < 1319924838 155419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, get speakers that time. < 1319924852 956759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, headphones you mean < 1319924856 947173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like speakers < 1319924857 672793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you want to sit through a 13 minute silent film, which I suppose is possible if uninteresting.) < 1319924930 229686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, 2 new videos on yogscast. bbiab < 1319924947 724034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Vorpal "Doesn't Have Time For Homestuck" Vorpal < 1319924956 589044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is about priorities < 1319924966 888271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer yogscast over homestuck < 1319925139 586625 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next version of Pietbot now outputs "NICK P" < 1319925142 972151 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a start < 1319925187 670457 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the current resolution of the source code? < 1319925202 184490 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10x10px per codel < 1319925253 971552 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for the total width x height in codels; I just couldn't pass the opportunity to use "resolution of the source code" there, even if it's a bit wrong. < 1319925267 767693 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 by 50 codels < 1319925275 444219 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 50 by 2 < 1319925303 634302 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is weirdly small. Oh, or was that just for the NICK P thing? < 1319925308 529066 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1319925334 872336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Arch even have groups as opposed to just empty packages? < 1319925351 706113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the one which connected and all? < 1319925374 152937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, buggered if I know. They are annoying to deal with too. I have no idea where they are defined < 1319925397 98619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's some sort of a "never metapackage I didn't" pun-portunity lurking in here somewhere. < 1319925459 808304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NICK Pi" < 1319925545 678020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should the namespace for a Haskell program to deal with DVI files be called? < 1319925566 877145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.DVI.*? < 1319925649 194605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Can you run vpddecode on your laptop? It's supposed to work on most IBM/Lenovo machines. (Probably won't return anything very interesting, though it should tell the model.) < 1319925726 3340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just BIOS build id, box serial number, mobo serial, and machine model code < 1319925750 157320 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I've made a small mistake < 1319925755 610964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It now outputs "NICK Pim" < 1319925765 68497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but it did work. Was just curious; it's all "No VPD structure found, sorry" for everything I have. < 1319925771 231430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm half-tempted to make inst work on KDE. < 1319925778 537238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It's trying to become a PimpBot. < 1319925797 734371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, there isn't a big "all of KDE" package any more. < 1319925950 820548 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now show you what it outputs. < 1319925956 370146 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "NICK pie" < 1319925957 284931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "NICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNICK pieNI... < 1319925966 984255 :kmc__!~keegan@108.113.143.238 NICK :kmc < 1319925971 347638 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, lambdabot < 1319926005 618040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I could use Graphics.DVI < 1319926024 323545 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also upon close inspection, the laptop in fact has two "Portable Battery"s. Both batteries have a location of "Location of the battery", but one is called "Battery Name" while the other is named "BATT 1". (Both are also NiCd batteries, which I strongly doubt.) < 1319926029 105691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although font metrics might should be different module?? < 1319926078 813527 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: byezz < 1319926079 81230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should its package name be? < 1319926349 181633 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1319926380 577740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know a lot about multilib right??? < 1319926420 746527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should the package name be for Haskell library to read/write/process DVI files? < 1319926435 199778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you want to call it < 1319926452 666865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dvi-processor? < 1319926456 721949 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1319926466 938821 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319926519 711338 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sounds like a program, not a library < 1319926546 390178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ? < 1319926549 936012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1319926568 682366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, nice batteries < 1319926577 829852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my battery info is completely accurate :/ < 1319926589 923487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319926601 647916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should check if it lists any second ultrabay battery as being installed < 1319926658 513522 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you mean the dvi-processor? < 1319926667 146439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep < 1319926681 577453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dvi-processing? < 1319926686 488653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. < 1319927320 55653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319927742 372106 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319928243 551443 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1319928279 128383 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319928671 813902 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Two Steps From Hell has colonised the BBC. < 1319928694 812839 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Hexham? < 1319928706 481233 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even *knowing* about Two Steps From Hell has completely ruined watching any kind of advertisement.) < 1319928867 650860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Steps_From_Hell < 1319928869 493725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: this is so bad < 1319928874 334157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would buy those two albums < 1319928903 433357 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, people who need epic music for a backing track. < 1319928919 10505 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes 50% of all YouTube videos for some reason. < 1319928927 179150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319929236 746242 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-153-125.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319929282 21180 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprisingly, their own promotional videos have the same epic music < 1319929416 399682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: you can fix that youtube problem by simply asking them to vigorously maintain their copyright right? >:P < 1319929467 534092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/asking them/subtly suggesting for them/ < 1319929495 463541 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think they'd rather have their music promoted so that more movie trailers use their music and pay for it < 1319929524 345833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319929532 327175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is so bad about it? < 1319929538 317377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: I haven't listened to it yet < 1319929546 850335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor will I unless someone gives me a link < 1319929570 340194 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... there was a link < 1319929581 949651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... also you can google < 1319929597 305802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a wp link < 1319929639 273652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done, you've found the link! :) < 1319929654 415217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I see no youtube link there though < 1319929680 363226 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1319929696 865396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is what I asked for a link to... < 1319929703 488219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : not surprisingly, their own promotional videos have the same epic music < 1319929710 927561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, which one in particular did you mean?++++++++ < 1319929713 586868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1319929716 869002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :synergy broke < 1319929719 246565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spammed keys < 1319929722 934506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck synergy < 1319929724 892211 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not on youtube < 1319929733 877349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well where is that then? < 1319929742 432191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is flash and not youtube, don't bother < 1319929744 537906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't watch that < 1319929751 32757 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it was flash and not youtube < 1319929771 188235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is on youtube, at least the trailers they link < 1319929774 575649 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how large a rock do you live under if you think there are web videos left that don't use Flash? < 1319929777 439581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some of them < 1319929786 728013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, html5 man < 1319929792 393419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them was anyway < 1319929821 70608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, and Bethesda used HTML5 videos for their skyrim gameplay footage < 1319929822 236459 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I can't find the video in question, though. < 1319929851 350868 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I found was http://www.twostepsfromhell.com/dynastypromo.php < 1319929871 665107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the twilight one at the top is html5 from youtube for me < 1319929900 199355 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD, the choir has lyrics sheets. < 1319929901 82590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the video tab < 1319929926 749869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, how large a rock do you live under if you think there are web videos left that don't use Flash? < 1319929930 980604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same one I live under < 1319929937 671614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1319929962 393040 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the video tab seems to have all the stuff that other people have made using their music < 1319929964 894465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which is none. < 1319929973 313311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there is an embedded .mov here < 1319929974 166062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you live under a different rock, because the premise is false < 1319929985 118863 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help now I am confused. < 1319929996 25340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well there are some embedded .movs still. And some HTML5 videos are starting to show up < 1319929998 924649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: html5 is pretty common. < 1319930014 472445 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well OK, but only recently, so I forgot about it. < 1319930031 191213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently as in "past few years" :) < 1319930104 476776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, live actors for a skyrim trailer. How does that even make sense. < 1319930116 187742 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the episode starts with sisko being relieved of command... this can only mean that the rest of the episode is about him getting it back somehow < 1319930122 13220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(front page video on http://www.elderscrolls.com/ after you selected language) < 1319930131 875912 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it'll be a cliffhanger! I'm already looking forward to the next season < 1319930132 401944 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1319930154 926267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what season are you on> < 1319930155 478748 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1319930181 988772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1319930185 698137 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just started watching the final episode of season 3 < 1319930189 973079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the two steps from hell guys < 1319930194 502505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is from trondheim < 1319930202 115516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's about when the good starts :) < 1319930206 20790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: skip profit and lace btw < 1319930213 801886 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other one is from hexham? < 1319930350 30130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where did I get the idea that two steps from hell was exactly two guys? < 1319930383 882040 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319930385 881388 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: that's about when the good starts :) < 1319930391 665410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SAID "ABOUT" < 1319930393 549317 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, that's the end of season 2. < 1319930396 917626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes yes. < 1319930401 804631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it takes about a season to amp up to full goodness. < 1319930416 188517 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'About' gives you a few episodes' leeway. < 1319930426 588612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover is actually sleeping as we speak. < 1319930433 504126 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When was the last monster of the week episode anyway?) < 1319930471 469783 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about" gives you "a few" something of whatever unit you are using, could be seasons in this case < 1319930510 360368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, the first elderscrolls game is available as a free download next to a dosbox link nowdays < 1319930513 527237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of nice < 1319930525 872343 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319930547 46943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for the second one < 1319931018 519762 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-94-62.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1319931508 188759 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319932264 429090 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319932568 180785 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection