< 1319587211 330414 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a flat space for function arguments, basically, not a nested one. < 1319587213 622667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good god not more of this terrible notation < 1319587214 121556 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least: maybe?? < 1319587225 584146 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1319587246 761045 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have [x] as a shorthand for [x ?] < 1319587282 549616 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319587304 283484 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-243-131.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1319587320 759583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how do you compose [g ?] with x? < 1319587322 86490 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, that doesn't seem like the best idea. Ideally x and [x] would be the same in all cases, to avoid confusion. < 1319587355 478739 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So x is a function? < 1319587363 437782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1319587369 316118 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that matter < 1319587399 689354 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1319587410 478784 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're composing functions, you need to know the arity. < 1319587417 887353 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is unary < 1319587420 37581 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can use the right number of placeholders. < 1319587421 549833 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1319587431 170491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except addition. addition is binary. < 1319587449 596132 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [g [x ?]] is the composition of g and x. < 1319587472 429789 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas [g x] is the function g applied to the function x. < 1319587480 94506 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Glad I finally got that straight...) < 1319587493 240632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let's see < 1319587514 973569 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering whether something like this can be done simply in Haskell. < 1319587519 174287 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be done, no doubt. < 1319587525 860932 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "simply" that could be problematic. < 1319587528 283723 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it even be done in Even? < 1319587532 481804 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Even....doable? < 1319587547 296688 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never wrote it, but it's a language that can be written. :P < 1319587552 168521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it? < 1319587555 940014 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it seems you haven't really integrated composition and application into one uniform syntax < 1319587557 581398 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1319587563 153846 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have proof of this < 1319587589 238761 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it be possible to write it? < 1319587593 964049 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have lambdas where you can only use each argument once and in order afaiu < 1319587603 529610 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even might be ill-defined or something < 1319587610 787216 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there could be bad problems in it that make it awful < 1319587617 322627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in particular, can you implement s? < 1319587669 129358 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes I remember one of the things, yes < 1319587674 259476 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be just S x y z = [x z [y z]]. < 1319587678 348285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically what oklopol's saying < 1319587714 61033 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think [[[S x] y] z] = [[x z] [y z]] is closer to the real thing < 1319587738 605709 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when combinatoring, you don't want to have to supply all three args < 1319587748 181911 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense. < 1319587776 674016 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just wondering if you can just write S down using ?'s < 1319587816 573489 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. You wouldn't need to. It doesn't involve composition exactly. < 1319587836 834801 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write [[x ?] [y ?] z z] if you were feeling fancy. < 1319587857 556709 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1319587910 97402 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be [[[x ?] [y ?]] z z]? and i'm still not sure how you know when a lambda starts and when a composition starts < 1319587959 395319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Help the GHC on here is 6.12.1 I can't cope. < 1319587969 953250 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one time i made a language where you didn't use parens at all, the interpreter just used types to choose the correct parsing < 1319587999 540183 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: [[x ?] [y ?]] is equal to [x [y ?]], so those outer brackets shouldn't be there. < 1319588010 908700 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe the syntax needs to be clearer. < 1319588022 440800 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm really just asking how to do something like this in Haskell. < 1319588045 596888 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without just implementing it the way I was going to for Even. < 1319588050 4012 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a question for the people who care about haskell < 1319588064 360550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this one time i made a language where you didn't use parens at all, the interpreter just used types to choose the correct parsing < 1319588066 72685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :types < 1319588078 327307 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1319588097 482063 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just chose the parse that was type-correct? < 1319588105 57463 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if there were multiple type-correct parses? < 1319588126 770791 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a proof of concept partial interpreter and at least my quicksort and mergesort parsed correctly < 1319588136 577178 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was precedence encoded in the type system somehow? < 1319588137 11072 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again both were like 8 characters < 1319588150 496000 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was there no precedence? < 1319588161 43697 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh what language is this it sounds good < 1319588198 317069 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were multiple type-correct parses, then the first one found was chosen. i might have added optional parens if i'd worked more on it. < 1319588219 723679 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise. one of my languages that only exist in my dreams < 1319588233 127221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1319588249 753353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: so what do you want in haskell < 1319588286 748836 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge sort: '/,)#< < 1319588286 893849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksort: /2;A b:C,',JnB < 1319588286 966023 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bubblesort a:B,',\#"+"+mC1"-"-mC1">"+C1"<"-C1{;X}Wh=mC0=}X??b < 1319588356 340206 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck in cise < 1319588363 612688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise is beautiful < 1319588372 632051 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i want to know more < 1319588381 958690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's explained like three things about it in the past i think :P < 1319588384 660964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brainfuck, i'm sure the parsing would never have been found :D < 1319588420 729627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are probably errors, parsing was not the only weird thing about cise < 1319588515 261527 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Say I want to pull out all the applications in (Vertex (x + d) (y + d) (z + d)). In Even I could write something like [apply3 [Vertex ? ? ?] [add ? d] x y z]. < 1319588542 206463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically evincar is unhappy because composition does not allow him to write any lambda-expression without points < 1319588548 135921 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1319588552 835763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shockin < 1319588553 511888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1319588562 850080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: you can do it, it's called stack-based languages < 1319588569 55584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/2 = divide in two, A b:C = pattern match and only leave the upper cased letters in the register, ' = recurse, JnB = join with B as the separator < 1319588575 792986 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like concatenative semantics, thank you very much. < 1319588581 330006 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is easy enough < 1319588600 185972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's what a stack gives you... < 1319588612 300100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a base case is not needed < 1319588629 625703 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno if that's the shortest quicksort though < 1319588635 35244 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointfree just feels nicer, but in applicative languages it's less readable. < 1319588639 340316 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the world < 1319588666 947271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't want to use a stack and stacks seem to be the way to be short < 1319588677 457781 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cise is indeed beautiful. < 1319588769 412964 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Help the GHC on here is 6.12.1 I can't cope. <-- it was nice to know you < 1319588853 772504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1319588943 934193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cheating is certainly going on, for instance i think []{"[]"} is how you nest the program w.r.t. [ and ], but on the other hand {"[]"} is a lambda returning "[]" so i'm not completely sure what the semantics are. < 1319589074 687186 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1319589104 916330 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :;mc puts the memory tape and the pointer in the register (, just emptied it so ; is variable introduction and not pattern matching this time) < 1319589127 274829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1319589135 965731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the beginning < 1319589186 954618 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1319589257 648126 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ;I,;mc,[]{"[]"} first ;I puts the program in i and leaves it in the register, then , empties the register, so ;mc just introduces two variables whose type is unknown, then ,[]{"{}"} nests the contents of the register, but since it's empty (both m and c are lowercase so it's left empty), and we really need some content this time, it takes i as the contents, since i was the last thing left in the < 1319589281 899430 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...register < 1319589306 734574 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is a single statement so... yeah i have no idea < 1319589403 626716 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+mC1 should parse as take c'th element of m, then add one to the result. since nothing is done with the result, it's done in-place < 1319589539 821071 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we call the last statement recursively, and since m and c are not defined in the lambda that's called, we use the variables of the topmost level in all of them < 1319589621 598580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway probably the sensible solution to the parsing problem would be the to do what clue does < 1319589748 153677 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And what is it that Clue does? < 1319589771 956885 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: in your example with Vertexy things, does that even work? I'm doubtful. < 1319589810 880251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find your thing about how ? gets resolved < 1319589840 22036 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[apply3 [Vertex ? ? ?] [add ? d] x y z] = [[Vertex ? ? ?] [add ? d] [add ? d] [add ? d] x y z] = [[Vertex [add ? d] [add ? d] [add ? d]] x y z] < 1319589842 392639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's one of the few languages of mine that exist outside my dreams so you can check out the abstruse explanation on the wiki, but anyhow just give an example io-pair for the function < 1319589853 509592 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric := [Vertex [add x d] [add y d] [add z d]] < 1319589869 139090 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "The precise details of the syntax are not known." :( < 1319589878 913320 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319589881 274013 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319589902 302833 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Basically an application always puts it argument in the leftmost ?. < 1319589902 375276 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty irrelevant < 1319589906 302463 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319589914 147867 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1319589928 846762 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know the length of the shortest qs in gs? < 1319590008 968315 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I broke that example... < 1319590021 904133 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because the second thing would be wrong. < 1319590023 825415 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1319590031 256435 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's ambiguous... < 1319590040 317724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar discovers that variables exist for a reason < 1319590115 686184 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there's not really a clear way to say that [a ? ?] [b ?] [c ?] d e should mean [a [b d] [c e]] and not [a [b [c d]] e]. ( < 1319590118 943161 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even cise uses variables < 1319590119 143078 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :* :( < 1319590122 562891 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i argued that it would be hideously ambiguous when it was discussed previously < 1319590123 549836 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue doesn't, though < 1319590133 254160 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: didn't we all? < 1319590140 669908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1319590142 969273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1319590150 721383 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hideously ambiguous...it just has one particularly hideous ambiguity. < 1319590160 665562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. hideously ambiguous < 1319590172 846916 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i vaguely recall i thought it could possibly work with type resolution of some sort < 1319590187 177381 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ambiguity is in something afaiu core to the language < 1319590187 776246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except in the face of polymorphism < 1319590202 363129 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :both clue and cise are ambiguous, but i think we all agree there's enough empirical evidence that we can safely say that's not relevant in practice. < 1319590202 470595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1319590218 53789 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. If you can specify that some arguments are applied all at once, rather than sequentially, that solves it. < 1319590225 61230 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can probably add perl to that category iirc < 1319590234 768059 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is this? < 1319590236 781846 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that functions had to be able to take multiple operands for this to work. < 1319590243 327969 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I remember why. :P < 1319590248 774884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nah, just TC < 1319590256 940911 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319590293 152861 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise and clue are way ambiguouser than perl < 1319590317 272372 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319590323 515372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i recall reading that perl has part of its parser implemented by majority voting among heuristics < 1319590333 424955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow :D < 1319590335 190601 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+vaguely < 1319590338 999053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1319590339 902420 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1319590376 871000 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue doesn't really even *have* a parser though < 1319590390 906448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay the things it parses it parses unambiguously < 1319590413 518579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i suppose technically i lose < 1319590424 213224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude oklopol < 1319590425 890958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise =/= clue < 1319590426 558813 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you just have ambiguous semantics. < 1319590443 695984 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't confuse them < 1319590466 13230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue has a pretty unambiguous syntax afaict < 1319590499 994134 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, only the script used for debugging is. < 1319590508 261447 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual program is the empty string < 1319590525 549036 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the function bag < 1319590533 595445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1319590548 641853 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319590573 589608 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1319590689 589692 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: anyway, try actually implementing even and then implementing something nontrivial in it (and running it and making sure it works); maybe that will help get rid of problems??? < 1319590730 699434 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a language where you write the program interactively by example, like to define quicksort you say you're making a function from lists to lists, then you're given an example list and you apply quicksort on it, repeatedly. then, suddenly, the program says "hey i think i got it!" and starts doing it on its own and you tell it if it makes a mistake. of course, we need someone with < 1319590735 228841 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :down's to say the line < 1319590753 192521 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It probably would, so I probably will. < 1319590763 950118 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr durr i think this goes in there" < 1319590781 787175 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more interesting than any other language I've got in mind that I also have the time to work on. < 1319590783 279370 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a no you retard button < 1319590824 444514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i suggest the name u2b < 1319590831 465790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for those who do not hate computers, a "oh that's all right, i'll take it from here if that's okay". < 1319590833 541079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :button < 1319590852 405103 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You could remove the "interactively" bit with a genetic algorithm. < 1319590884 476958 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your program succeeds for all of the 1000 inputs I tested, for a confidence level of x percent." < 1319590887 104721 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interactively bit is important, but how < 1319590902 533558 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm erm umm how do you know what's correct < 1319590903 193018 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you write test cases and evolve an algorithm from those. < 1319590920 992147 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't know if it's correct for all inputs. < 1319590946 300358 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can have a known confidence level that it will work as expected. < 1319590949 976298 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been done to death, interaction is the new glue sniffing. < 1319590954 158310 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at the end of the day, isn't that how most software works? < 1319590971 157914 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the probability of failure isn't even known for most software. < 1319590975 144644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :your computer should be someone you can have a beer with at the end of the day < 1319590977 501042 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a genetic algorithm works better. :P < 1319590988 75520 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1319590992 553280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: idgi < 1319591002 478508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :u2b < 1319591004 796441 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed he meant youtube but i still didn't get it < 1319591016 82828 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kennedy's Lemma establishes that if we can parse Perl 5, we can solve the Halting Problem. Therefore we cannot parse Perl 5." < 1319591020 291613 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=663393 < 1319591027 437336 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how do you evolve a genetic algoritm from test cases? < 1319591051 682889 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, epic yawn at what evincar linked < 1319591064 480867 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost lost my eyes in the process < 1319591085 451446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh seems it's rather nontrivial though < 1319591108 881712 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1319591110 656637 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1319591114 870150 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no it's not. < 1319591213 939565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This means that, in order to statically parse Perl, it must be possible to determine from a string of Perl 5 code whether it establishes a nullary prototype for the whatever subroutine." why isn't there Q.E.D. after this sentence? < 1319591233 951769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i don't know perl well enough. very possible since i don't know it at all. < 1319591254 98707 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: say it aloud < 1319591261 381523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you tubee? < 1319591266 110726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's statically knowable in e.g. C... < 1319591310 275290 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you two be? < 1319591338 577793 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You to be", your future self? < 1319591356 815711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so there are static types in perl, you can't just ?: with something that has no args and something that has one on the right? < 1319591361 902406 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too, Be < 1319591385 399907 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :u-tubie is a little tub shaped like a u < 1319591385 597273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah i don't think you Get It < 1319591399 367830 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was a python :D < 1319591399 881829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you do < 1319591403 861040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (false) { sub foo() { ... } } < 1319591408 668620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that establishes a nullary prototype for foo I think < 1319591815 775402 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so that's not quite as trivial, it's just static parsing that's impossible, not actually interpreting the program correctly < 1319591933 235741 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1319591940 670063 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't "parse" Perl. < 1319591946 43644 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can evaluate it. < 1319591948 692813 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope it works. < 1319591968 258057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :less stupidly-stated: parsing perl is tc < 1319592000 634179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could be that you cannot even prove which parsing is correct, and thus not ever execute anything! now that would be something < 1319592012 377676 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was a shorted way to say not ever < 1319592030 193406 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was a way to type shorted so that it's not a typo < 1319592054 991186 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what heuristics are for. < 1319592071 280528 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Larry assumed that people are in the habit of rephrasing themselves when they're misunderstood. < 1319592078 629426 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're looking at Perl from a linguistic standpoint. < 1319592088 882563 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you should, because it's as hideous as any natural language I've known. < 1319592123 922220 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't rephrase, i redesign the language over my program < 1319592605 998541 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The luxury of a language designer. Or a Lisp or Forth user. < 1319592672 348732 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319592672 489885 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1319592672 562134 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1319592710 488388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a really stubborn crazy person < 1319592839 630777 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319592955 438269 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who submits a patch for every problem he encounters...or just forks the project and merges in all of the changes from the mainline. < 1319592967 671677 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just so he can have the language he wants. < 1319593175 697300 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how people subtly don't know shit in the comments < 1319593218 821370 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make the occasional brainfart, what's the difference really < 1319593402 795431 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kennedy's Lemma: If you can parse Perl, you can solve the Halting Problem. " < 1319593404 54184 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1319593429 755258 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i keep yawning when i hear that < 1319593504 924048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe you were pavlov's dog in a previous life < 1319593599 16706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the first one was the best imo < 1319593603 706009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this good or bad ivory tower ivory tower < 1319593754 834265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i complain when i yawn and complain when i ain't sleepyhead < 1319594117 170041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you know what a rational prime is? < 1319594145 474800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find a definition anywhere, but i did find out that it doesn't seem to mean regular prime < 1319594174 741332 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot say i recall < 1319594193 766874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it means "prime", all primes are rational, hth < 1319594256 403459 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :from context i think it means a prime number that cannot even be split into the product of polynomials over formal variables. no idea if there are primes that can. < 1319594302 678775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for regular primes i found a definition on wp but it looked scary < 1319594323 547004 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently we don't know if there are infinitely many of those < 1319594359 484304 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well of course it's clear that there are, even though i don't know the definition, but anyhow) < 1319594371 954910 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone'll ever say "Looks like we ran out of primes" and there'll be this big hype like over the tachyonic neutrinos thing. < 1319594408 509234 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Z doesn't exist so we're fucked anyway < 1319595336 23191 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319596512 823837 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z? < 1319596526 167633 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of integers < 1319596562 796441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo doesn't know /that/? < 1319596672 813545 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't know everything simultaneously < 1319596730 29626 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I'm in a box with a cat? < 1319596732 453555 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ℤ look more familiar sgeo < 1319596738 430025 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know that I don't know everything simultaneously. < 1319596743 61574 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until you observe me. < 1319596746 470675 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead in a box with a cat. < 1319596753 424583 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1960.html < 1319596755 332825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead box / rip < 1319596761 133347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'll observe the pants off ya < 1319596778 757093 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy~. < 1319596794 616335 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that, like, psychokinesis? < 1319596796 220675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of my many qualities < 1319596800 383768 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, if so, awesome. < 1319596825 595344 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume that message was in reply to my question about psychokinesis. < 1319596840 324978 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore that your brain is worthy of dissection. < 1319596882 54474 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'll dissect the pants of my brain < 1319597044 414198 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read 'dissect my penis' =_= < 1319597069 653113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'll dissect the penis out of that equal face < 1319597179 58429 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know what they say, left foot leads into the right beginning of the end < 1319597646 427045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1319598477 193183 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319598480 314615 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so the general insistence here is that I should write Even, for lack of anything better to write. < 1319598488 139126 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I write it in? Haskell? < 1319598579 20053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var$fix("haskell "++) < 1319598580 569358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell has... < 1319598668 416102 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle ["haskell"] < 1319598669 736143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","has... < 1319598673 151483 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1319598675 910181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat "haskell" < 1319598677 449168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","haskell","has... < 1319598679 686450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take your pick < 1319598696 778438 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cycle ["haskell"]) !! 42 < 1319598704 546061 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (cycle ["haskell"]) !! 42 < 1319598705 872735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "haskell" < 1319598711 502373 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, guess that settles it. < 1319598714 833116 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var$cycle"haskell " < 1319598715 664545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell haskell has... < 1319598741 660821 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1319598743 79882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1319598752 75975 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var$"a = b" < 1319598753 636323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a = b < 1319599572 620203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319599584 654234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319600259 359280 :CakeProphet!~eris@h69-130-146-120.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319600259 470754 :CakeProphet!~eris@h69-130-146-120.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net QUIT :Changing host < 1319600259 470905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1319600330 205481 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map text $ repeat "Haskell" < 1319600331 262938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Haskell,Ha... < 1319601069 286520 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>map text $ permutations "abc" < 1319601073 321602 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map text $ permutations "abc" < 1319601074 609669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [abc,bac,cba,bca,cab,acb] < 1319601113 106139 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map text $ ((replicateM [1..]) <=< (cycle "abc")) < 1319601114 446509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1319601114 758183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1319601119 340676 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM < 1319601120 681291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a] < 1319601151 454348 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicate < 1319601152 647421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Int -> a -> [a] < 1319601278 765646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicateM` "abc") =<< [1..] < 1319601279 489690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"... < 1319602402 828857 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1319603499 409161 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319603516 387073 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-100.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319603842 506958 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1319604323 416177 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1319605117 274956 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319606846 914823 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1319606931 604688 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319606934 793123 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319606955 849900 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319608022 460668 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1319608115 295829 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.student.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238] < 1319608344 778588 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1319609505 373921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1319609508 622087 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-202-43.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319609989 206854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319610877 208953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319611143 537171 :CakeProphet!~eris@h178.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319611143 646401 :CakeProphet!~eris@h178.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1319611143 646482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1319611738 191500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sjsiejisjdfijwgioj < 1319611832 696331 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :defgiiiijjjjjosssw. (Sorted that for you.) < 1319611862 284448 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sort < 1319611863 669329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ord a) => [a] -> [a] < 1319611880 269488 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "sjsiejisjdfijwgioj" < 1319611881 634330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "defgiiiijjjjjosssw" < 1319611890 434701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I did it right. < 1319611912 689943 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An abfoor is a sorted foobar. < 1319611928 318533 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "fizzie" < 1319611929 710078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "efiizz" < 1319611930 123054 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad! < 1319611939 538219 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't make me reverse sort you < 1319611955 639560 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort Madoka-Kaname < 1319611956 480218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Madoka'Not in scope: data constructor `Kana... < 1319611961 22118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "Madoka-Kaname" < 1319611961 653966 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "-KMaaaadekmno" < 1319611963 732258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't quite.) < 1319611977 606709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kmaaaaadekmno. It's like some sort of a bird sound. < 1319611990 348259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/quite/quote/ < 1319611999 718446 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite quote. < 1319612016 8007 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "I can't quite quote." < 1319612017 191986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : " '.Iaceeinoqqtttuu" < 1319612018 156836 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION silly idea < 1319612029 797372 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a bot that enters a random channel and sorts every line that comes through. < 1319612042 122485 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble fizzie < 1319612042 343976 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fziezi < 1319612062 985224 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all jumbled up. < 1319612072 804423 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sort "fziezi" < 1319612074 89951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "efiizz" < 1319612075 978266 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fify < 1319612131 165409 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble それは日本語で書かれた文 < 1319612131 237660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble fziezi < 1319612131 237829 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1319612131 633728 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :㝂㯗欪㧛㋂㟖恌へ恞蜥恌 < 1319612137 324476 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1319612139 870024 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... not very UTF8-aware. < 1319612146 459030 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble 㝂㯗欪㧛㋂㟖‡æŒã¸æžèœ¥æŒã < 1319612147 187902 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Á£⒀Ś£ï€è¾æ¸⁀ºãŀ⦀ÚÀœ < 1319612151 639616 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail < 1319612151 996512 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1319612167 322775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you passed in the same bytes it outputteded. < 1319612182 298364 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble バカ! < 1319612182 760076 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :㐂 < 1319612192 156950 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble 㐂«ãƒ < 1319612192 815658 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ò£⫀š¯ < 1319612195 667916 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble あ < 1319612196 367851 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :め < 1319612201 249891 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble め < 1319612201 870932 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :あ < 1319612207 108136 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble ああああああああああああああああああああああ < 1319612207 751623 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :めめめめめめめめめめめああああああああああ < 1319612213 133794 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble めめめめめめめめめめめ‚ああああああああああだ< 1319612214 41053 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Á⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀÁ⣀ڀ < 1319612215 232810 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1319612216 652223 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't. < 1319612236 266795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing your client will latin1-fallback the bot's output, and then when you paste it back you're UTF-8ing them. < 1319612249 243455 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense < 1319612263 395561 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1319612263 506483 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr < 1319612268 467691 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^srmlebac fizzie < 1319612268 576307 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fziezi < 1319612275 63057 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^uenlsbcmra fziezi < 1319612275 167023 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1319612277 246999 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble fizzie < 1319612277 880358 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fziezi < 1319612288 188493 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble srmlebac < 1319612288 744987 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :scramble < 1319612290 485913 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show scramble < 1319612291 56742 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1319612295 923969 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show unscramble < 1319612296 574820 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[.[-]>[>]<[.[-]<[<]]>] < 1319612304 280099 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show echo < 1319612304 887684 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[.>,]<[<]+32[.>] < 1319612307 243014 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think it was exactly the same. < 1319612311 481158 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble 1234567 < 1319612311 553618 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1357642 < 1319612316 571812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^srmlebac 1234567 < 1319612316 677674 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1357642 < 1319612321 710824 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show scramble < 1319612322 230321 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1319612323 301579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does seem to be. Hmm. < 1319612325 562087 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show srmlebac < 1319612325 961007 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1319612333 95965 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, those certainly look identical. < 1319612338 380978 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :違うわけがない < 1319612339 43984 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were added quite a while ago. < 1319612371 102157 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show source < 1319612371 594326 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S < 1319612376 648650 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1319612377 232672 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1319612396 658220 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1319612438 808420 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help is also just a (...)S thing. < 1319612447 462265 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's write a programming language that compiles to befunge < 1319612451 450394 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show def < 1319612459 571832 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def def ul (Nope)S < 1319612460 319236 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1319612462 418440 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def def ul (Nope)S < 1319612463 19419 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1319612465 974115 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1319612472 424473 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly it can't show internal commands, and they take precededence. < 1319612484 384617 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1319612488 145694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've compiled something to (ugly) befunge, but I've completely forgotten what it was. < 1319612495 99453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was some other esolang. < 1319612504 210631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is reasonably easy to. < 1319612560 810334 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple C-like language? < 1319612598 230173 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Trampoline: Skip next cell < stream crossing? < 1319612600 280219 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have something that compiles into "compact" blocks of befunge, instead of some horribly structured layout. < 1319612632 14810 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can do ... #ab#cd#ef#gh# ... to execute bdfh when going right, geca when going left. < 1319612663 410233 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The classic print loop of ... >:#,_ ... sorta-uses that. < 1319612702 151593 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do conditionals? < 1319612704 707020 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-modifying code? < 1319612718 657712 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think that'd be the same kind of problem as writing a (good) some-language -> redstone compiler < 1319612727 739506 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319612737 765287 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with one less dimension to work with.. < 1319612740 22068 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :| and _ ; they branch up/down and left/right depending on whether the number popped from stack is non-zero or zero. < 1319612762 510255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and 'w' which turns left, goes straight, or turns right depending on <0, =0, >0, in Funge-98. < 1319612777 582214 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so. < 1319612797 692912 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, generate a tree or graph of some sort, diagramming what branches, etc, to output, and then you can just generate that, right? < 1319612817 823255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and m which branches high/low in trefunge. < 1319612862 565107 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm thinking you can compile the thing to something like this: < 1319612866 588955 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CodeSnippet] < 1319612889 332981 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CodeSnippet [Instruction] BranchType [Int] < 1319612903 26431 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then generate that in some way. < 1319612911 17796 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A control flow graph is probably something you'd have, yes; but then it's non-trivial how to best pack all the blocks, esp. if you want to reuse instructions going different way. < 1319612918 890052 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1319612921 543486 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the big problem. < 1319612924 3300 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that human befunge programmers are that good in instruction reuse either, I suppose. < 1319612929 213088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm not. < 1319612942 724789 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes for nicely tricky-to-modify code. < 1319612967 402146 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, snippets of instructions that don't branch, followed with a single branch instruction. That shouldn't be too hard to generate, right? < 1319612979 566792 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can merge branches that don't go all over the place into single clusters. < 1319612988 427903 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then place those however. < 1319612989 189712 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly what a control flow graph is. < 1319612993 897837 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1319612997 793258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a control flow graph each node in the graph represents a basic block, i.e. a straight-line piece of code without any jumps or jump targets; jump targets start a block, and jumps end a block." < 1319613004 210214 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1319613053 59541 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a program that generates a control flow graph for a befunge program with (imperfect) static analysis; doesn't really work for self-modifying code, though. < 1319613061 174171 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fungot graphed somewhere, let's see. < 1319613061 450201 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' it's very hard,' she said to herself, " i think you might do something better with the time, the time goes with it.' < 1319613081 179580 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png < 1319613081 519094 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: taking " boys" as universe; x="fat"; and fnord interpret the lower half of the cupboard, where all the cakes in the world: once in the week. and that's the way to outland?" < 1319613108 199267 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, o.o < 1319613147 371925 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a very dusty printout of that right here on my desk; was thinking of maybe taping it on the wall, but never did. It's not exactly readable at A4 size anyway, and I can't quite make myself pay the printing costs for a poster-sized version. < 1319613191 525033 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1319613191 649479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's in the bubbles is just sequences of befunge instructions (with <>^v-style things stripped out) and the edge labels denote what sort of jump it is. < 1319613208 266672 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there ever reason to use p or g? < 1319613221 800671 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can drop the word "small" for a readable 7485x15016-sized copy.) < 1319613260 391989 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could maintain a call stack with frames with that. < 1319613260 470955 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, for storage. There's only so much you can do with a stack. (Though I guess with the stack-stack you can probably do anything; still, it's awkward to use.) < 1319613292 214429 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top row = entry < 1319613304 200443 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second row = stack information (current y, etc) < 1319613320 768581 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rest = actual stack < 1319613340 81054 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to cacluate the maximum stack frame size for every function, so, put the program after that many instructions. < 1319613367 968393 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very befungey befunge you get if you do it like that. < 1319613380 124417 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp. arbitrary jumps are quite "bad". < 1319613401 751042 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people (okay, just me) even frown on using ;. < 1319613467 800638 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ; do? < 1319613478 698303 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It jumps to the next ; it encounters. < 1319613507 765492 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't have to worry about writing yourself into a corner so much, since you can just jump across code. < 1319613542 570375 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UFO-looking device in that bot-graph (near the bottom) is the babbling punctuation jump-table. < 1319613585 168786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :To right of it seems to be part of the brainfuck bytecode compiler. < 1319613609 877166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the brainfuck interpreter itself is right below that. < 1319613637 591507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $2aaaaa*****81p88+:*91paaa**:a1p is a dead giveaway. < 1319613749 171990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there's the two random-number generation blocks (one fixed for the [0, 15] range and a loopy one for a reasonably large random numbers). I like the graph. < 1319613752 760139 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does fungot use p/g? < 1319613753 420532 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: an enormous dead fnord was lying on the bank. < 1319613758 974168 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, much. < 1319613768 798298 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so. < 1319613778 468742 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of has to, since most fingerprints write data in the fungespace. < 1319613788 889279 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like the IRC message splitting would be pretty hairy with just a stack. < 1319613809 933641 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Funge-98's A-Z thing, the stack mainpulation functions, etc, should be simple to implement, right? < 1319613851 190328 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well. If you make a custom fingerprint for compilation, it doesn't really count as "compiling to befunge" any more, I don't think. < 1319613860 518159 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1319613866 760999 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't define fingerprints in the program? < 1319613870 378089 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1319613887 654255 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1319613912 474243 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just "standard libraries" you can load. Though I think there are a couple of extensions that let you define some with Befunge code. < 1319613942 458442 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC/Funge-98 and some others have that "mini-funge" thing. < 1319613984 837894 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Funge doesn't have arbitrary jumps? < 1319614005 597098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' is pretty much an arbitrary jump, as long as you have a > or something at the destination to reset the delta. < 1319614015 911090 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to give relative coordinates instead of absolute, but that's a minor matter. < 1319614058 647342 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SUBR fingerprint gives you absolute jumps and an internal call-stack for 'return'. < 1319614088 965949 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1319614093 55609 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungot's (owner-only) "^code" command uses SUBR to execute what was passed to it, but I don't use SUBR elsewhere. It, too, feels slightly cheaty. < 1319614096 54773 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' makes compiling messy. < 1319614134 166325 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll manually maintain a stack, and then put the entire program in a huge switch statement. < 1319614154 786414 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where each value is an entry point of some sort into the program. < 1319614160 929732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it's any messier than, you know, regular assembly jumps that also are relative. < 1319614217 10417 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1319614233 355088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant has some sort of a constant-maker, incidentally. < 1319614248 877063 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You give it a number, and it tries to figure out a short way to represent that in Befunge code. < 1319614257 256791 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, lunchtime. -> < 1319614275 482433 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and that's one of the problems. < 1319614282 607725 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constants arn't, well, constant space. < 1319614492 416365 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319614561 373629 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319614710 917173 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling like that'd be kinda messy < 1319614728 34770 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can only resolve that in the routing step too. < 1319614754 293683 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most instructions that compile to multiple funge instructions can be unwound before routing. That can't. < 1319614773 473064 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you reserve max(programSize) space for each constant at any rate < 1319614795 633423 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxConstantSize* < 1319614851 642873 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: what's the topic? < 1319614879 628117 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling to Funge < 1319614892 819578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could create chunks of linear instructions < 1319614903 760788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then determine the 2D layout in a separate compilation step? < 1319614905 222173 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's already the plan. < 1319614908 660217 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1319614908 757607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, to determine the -- okay < 1319614917 130104 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about how to do function calls. < 1319614931 124352 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using 'x' involves generating constants which are only known during routing. < 1319614950 150488 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making that a multi-byte instruction that has to be resolved during the route pass. < 1319614955 444431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could create a tree/graph that relates to callers to callees? < 1319614979 516028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can determine the program layout based on the tree. < 1319614989 895755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can fetch the current position at runtime and the target should be static, no? < 1319615135 204215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a believe a function would just duplicate its parameter values on the stack, and be spatially nearby its caller so that it can be executed sequentially and then return back to the calling code segment. < 1319615156 482369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's an idea, anyway. < 1319615167 293176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :managing the stack may be difficult. < 1319615204 665130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or instead of using the stake you can get use put/get < 1319615206 902816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stack < 1319615211 845302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weorjwoeirjoewjsoifj < 1319615214 592715 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/get// < 1319615244 328757 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yeah. < 1319615267 119550 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plan I have right now is to maintain a stack. < 1319615276 386046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :put/get may be easier to maintain. < 1319615294 265305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no clue how to place chunks of code close to each other spatially so that function calls work. < 1319615315 598497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a function calls more than four functions you'll have to do some nasty routing stuff instead of simply using the 4 directions. < 1319615413 38530 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, giant switch statement < 1319615413 110799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :another important thing to note, if blocks of code are literally rectangles of code in befunge < 1319615423 476590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :function calls need to happen on the outside of those rectangles < 1319615428 828569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or shapes < 1319615430 318296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever. < 1319615908 685434 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319615973 371386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: I think get/put would greatly simplify static memory demands. < 1319615985 866478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even dynamic? stack might be better for that. < 1319616007 927696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1319616030 370303 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, reentrancy. < 1319616132 421564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one of my friends who somewhat recently broke up with his fiance, wrote on Facebook: "Is returning the ring........that's all I have to say about that." < 1319616142 617691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to which another person replied: "One does not simply walk into Mordor." < 1319616184 135399 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, actually. < 1319616198 238222 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a C-like language, i can optimize it by making it not use the stack fully, and only a return address. < 1319616218 610429 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: They're constant-space if you just set an upper bound and leave empty space here and there. < 1319616218 811496 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which can be on the funge stack instead of a manual stack < 1319616241 640556 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, but it's still an additional pass on the generated Funge code. < 1319616280 870148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiency: top priority for Befunge code. < 1319616320 550326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: isn't that right? < 1319616321 122325 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: " then it wasn't solid, like sylvie and you?" i asked eagerly, with a little basket, which he threw open, and sylvie more grave and quiet, but with a very different look from what uggug ever got from him. < 1319616383 797276 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are there any digital form of Finnegans Wake? < 1319616387 544187 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+s < 1319616403 959438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be a good fungot source. < 1319616404 256458 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 2. some y are m," and " hoarse," you will say " fnord" marked on them, and yet bear parting? < 1319616471 492084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the blah story. < 1319616485 930865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace every occurence of "blah" with "fnord" < 1319616710 678642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319616937 111590 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: If you don't want to use absolute jumps, the massive switch is always an option; fungot has one example of a subroutine (the code compilation used both by ^bf/^ul and ^def) where it pushes 0/1/2 on stack below the arguments, and then the return path has :2-| ... :1-| style diverters to go back where it started from. Still, fixed-size constants aren't that bad. < 1319616937 348126 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then, silence. some fancied they heard in the air. " i could show it you in a minute or two, fnord. < 1319616949 76196 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah. < 1319616975 34223 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that can be built as a pass on an ADT of some sort instead of a pass on free-form code < 1319617979 896745 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's Freefall is pretty funny < 1319618050 652953 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1319618379 699502 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking about that. < 1319618519 524227 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1319620392 726709 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319621575 858059 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319621953 391145 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319623235 444746 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1319623235 558066 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1319623235 630266 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1319623693 66172 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-202-43.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319624009 175311 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-43.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319624715 91978 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319624782 168189 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319625316 448410 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1319626112 231518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319626771 108367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319626844 688120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319627856 755946 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319628024 884926 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319628497 859204 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1319630161 834685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319633382 172551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319633683 899507 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b769f.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319633815 951965 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319633833 25485 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40b06.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319634938 107166 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1319637989 986770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone here explain GADTs to me? if so, are they willing to? < 1319638006 568600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GADTs? < 1319638229 761162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes that Ngevd can't < 1319638240 207816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something starting with G Abstract Data Types < 1319638243 83539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably generic or generalized < 1319639049 440582 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1319640611 6154 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319641443 748493 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalized, I believe < 1319641647 498709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically GADTs allow you to specify a so-called phantom type parameter. Each constructor can return a value with a different phantom type as a parameter. < 1319641659 876883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, the type system can now differentiate between different constructors of the same type. < 1319641684 477574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple example is lists. You can have List Empty a and List NonEmpty a < 1319641686 406348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm, I'm not sure I understand; could you give an example? < 1319641708 761068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now head and tail are typesafe. head :: List NonEmpty a -> a < 1319641718 536785 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail :: List NonEmpty a -> List x a < 1319641724 858839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how does it track whether lists are nonempty or not? < 1319641741 62728 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GADTs allow you to specify the return type of each constructor < 1319641851 774330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ht < 1319641854 274675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah right < 1319641864 463528 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Empty; Data NonEmpty; Data List x a where { Cons :: a -> List y a -> List NonEmpty a; Null :: List Empty a } < 1319641878 772692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to someone about Anarchy and they thought it was like GADTs, but it isn't really < 1319641888 567559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I've been working on this (I submitted it): http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?sort+by+first+occurrence < 1319641889 304790 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue on that one. :P < 1319641906 707342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing nowhere near the leaders < 1319641947 982180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are several obvious algorithms; I don't know which is best < 1319642020 209812 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most common example for GADTs is writing AST data types for interpreters. < 1319642025 942012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I commonly see it associated with < 1319642031 611419 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be used for other things. < 1319642035 515995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what Anarchy's intended to do to < 1319642047 492396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works by inferring a huge number of different ADTs < 1319642058 293218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it isn't all that dissimilar after all, but the inference thing is different < 1319642092 837868 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how short quicksort is in golfscript < 1319642122 405883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, but I suspect it's pretty short, as it has most of the components of quicksort as primitives < 1319642166 326283 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 14 characters in cise, was just wondering if gs gives a significant improvement to that < 1319642172 263019 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know gs < 1319642273 162743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has a sort primitive < 1319642279 957803 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't < 1319642285 605895 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it always quicksort? < 1319642310 166222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll try to write a quicksort without it < 1319642312 595652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort is 6 characters in cise, so i assume that's not much shorter in gs < 1319642342 191207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually GolfScript has no concise method to do recursion < 1319642352 844330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that a quicksort, specifically, is kind-of awkward < 1319642355 740159 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1319642363 589517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about bubblesort? < 1319642370 981937 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 14 in cise < 1319642421 422436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems primality checking is also 6 characters, but it uses a non-ascii character < 1319642452 854830 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i thought that particular character was ascii back then because umlaut is on all finnish keyboards, surprisingly enough) < 1319642626 114287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise has a recursion primitive which recursively calls the current statement or the whole program depending on which one makes more sense < 1319642687 12417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bubble sort is quite short in GolfScript, but am not good enough at it to write it concisely < 1319642714 659718 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1319642838 31231 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1319642862 240256 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Reports:Tasks_not_implemented_in_Golfscript :/ < 1319643163 384058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring, it only has two INTERCAL examples < 1319643165 62783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD J sucks ass: quicksort =: (($:@(<#[) , (=#[) , $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#) < 1319643184 15268 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, who has the time to write 43 characters < 1319643218 837585 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really make this language < 1319643394 572011 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try golfscript < 1319643401 229907 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, beaten to it < 1319643421 647741 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it seems no one has bothered to write it < 1319643444 957438 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a codegolf thread for it and it will be written < 1319643449 130055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently even ais doesn't know how to golf in gs < 1319643458 798773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wanna make a thread for it? < 1319643461 608384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at gs < 1319643474 366728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or basically, golfscript works like mathematica, by having a good standard library for typical golfing tasks < 1319643485 238439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's very good at sorting, but bad at implementing any given sort algorithm, for instance < 1319643564 524672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1319643573 615595 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone want to write actual programs < 1319643581 690208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you can implement algorithms < 1319643621 709707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319643688 843712 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1319644062 630040 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial is 10 characters < 1319644101 225391 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just \* in cise. i think. < 1319644187 911808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a golfscript factorial shouldn't be that long, surely? < 1319644202 269317 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :n to [1, ..., n] and to [0, ..., n] are list conversions, the first one is chosen since the second one gives a trivial result < 1319644212 322867 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are integer to list conversions < 1319644240 699266 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i guess the second one is to n-1 but anyhow < 1319644297 762990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a GolfScript factorial program, that factorials every line of input (treating it as a number): http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Factorial/narb_1298033052&gs < 1319644303 729044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ~]{,1\{)*}/n}% < 1319644316 137673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit that actually does the factorialling is ,1\{)*}/ I think < 1319644344 296136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had to construct the 1..n list by hand < 1319644398 480568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to construct the list by hand in cise, you have to press the umlaut key. but that's not ascii, dunno what i should change it to. < 1319644458 86169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy, it almost seems like you have to tell the program how you want it to manipulate the data and not just give it the relevant commands in a random sequence < 1319644471 885355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1319644476 771101 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319644501 419762 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319644561 2058 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interpretation of *\ is that you go from 7 to [1*2, 3*4, 5*6, 7] < 1319644562 462590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :underlambda's going to have a command to construct a list 1..n, although it isn't documented anywhere so I've forgotten what the command actually is < 1319644587 110126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise could be made more concise by making the order relevant, I guess < 1319644601 648711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is relevant < 1319644676 703020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decided today that in addition to heuristics (consisting mostly of example runs), a hash value is computed for your program which can be used to choose between ambiguous cases < 1319644677 718514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... an Underlambda factorial would be along the lines of U'*t < 1319644683 43720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the capitalization there < 1319644685 284891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got a new headset < 1319644697 237222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :construct a list from 1..n, then fold it with multiplication < 1319644707 837436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unnecessary whitespace changed parsing dramatically < 1319644720 390584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*changes < 1319644772 795438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: haha, that's a truly brilliant way of disambiguating < 1319644793 949533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hashes the program, then determines between the possible programs with that meaning in an order depending on the hash, so you can use whitespace or minor changes to change its preference order? < 1319644816 989929 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1319644829 326639 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319644855 100098 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was thinking a more direct approach where the basic heuristics are used for programs without whitespace (of course, ways of affecting parsing probably arise automatically), and the hash is computed from the placing of unnecessary whitespace < 1319644882 843433 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, whitespace is also a command, it's just one that doubles as nop when used in certain contexts < 1319644922 456800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the way whitespace works in underlambda is that it's a NOP by default, but can be redefined in the preprocessor if you're really mad < 1319644937 291296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(underlambda isn't really designed as a golfing language, but can nonetheless be quite short) < 1319644949 922076 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do nesting by hand by using lambdas, but { and }, the lambda commands, also dual as other stuff, so you can't just put a lambda where you wanna nest..... < 1319644957 523811 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319644957 845654 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1319644984 733465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't recall you have a preprocessor planned < 1319645002 88662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not part of the language, technically < 1319645005 234319 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319645006 598415 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1319645018 532229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is that the preprocessor is enough to compile the full language into a small subset < 1319645084 639618 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also something i'm planning: you can give the parse tree you want, and the interpreter checks if the program would have parsed into that < 1319645093 245308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm thinking about how to write a numeric sort in Underlambda < 1319645100 982728 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :might make it easier to implement < 1319645138 458786 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise is not a language you actually write a program in and use, it's a language where you write a very short algorithm implementation and prove it technically parses into the correct thing < 1319645207 221953 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :numeric sort < 1319645209 60176 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1319645211 565941 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ggl < 1319645214 321576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting an array of numbers < 1319645218 2827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a sort algorithm in itself < 1319645218 94815 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1319645220 786415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1319645225 21236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1319645227 532910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1319645229 696000 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1319645233 727429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1319645236 54851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1319645240 774913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1319645243 388054 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1319645247 532884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokok < 1319645250 121539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1319645256 605100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1319645283 779716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... a version based on indexing lists would be really messy < 1319645300 768459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a structurally recursive one would be a little long < 1319645305 925170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that leaves selection sort, I guess < 1319645328 207615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to work out a good way to write the max function < 1319645361 203674 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw query if you don't automatically see that < 1319645405 511991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I saw it < 1319645694 3798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, the problem's not just finding the largest element in a list, but getting rid of all the others < 1319645714 522598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*getting rid of it and leaving the others < 1319645746 333763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps quicksort is actually simpler < 1319646123 431116 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319647000 191905 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1319647112 134486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319647212 82019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1319647267 189789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319647288 79722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually clicks the link in the topic < 1319647293 664137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, underload < 1319647456 387553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319647530 320064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully the first task is easy enough for even me < 1319647535 934090 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319647604 952451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I'm not sure the third Underload question is as hard as it's meant to be... < 1319647614 861968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's easier than the second :) < 1319647616 644148 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it in about thirty seconds < 1319647640 576308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it in about three :p < 1319647643 318953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to understand CS quite well to do that < 1319647649 74365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew the answer before the question was posted, does that count? < 1319647655 110027 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never used Underload before < 1319647658 497483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, to make a pair in underload? < 1319647660 809393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1319647668 472384 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was tired < 1319647673 733780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, many students treat things like pairs as magic somehow < 1319647678 271436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than things you can implement by hand < 1319647715 262487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319647716 444869 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if xchat made links out of links in topics, I'd click the link < 1319647723 348285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it does < 1319647724 881957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type /topic < 1319647731 388600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be surprised if anyone could answer the first two questions but not the third < 1319647736 204069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319647740 65593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott would be surprised if anyone could answer the first two questions but not the third < 1319647769 784562 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you sure that /topic command is safe? it won't immolate me or anything? < 1319647915 429812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: dead sure < 1319647959 369717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it put some text on the screen with clickable links < 1319647987 325478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, finished all the Underload questions; now let's see if I can be bothered to do the ones about a language I'm not quite thoroughly familiar with < 1319648153 529591 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt the pair thing just as simple as having a string like ()(), then the programs duplicate, execute, then pop off the unwanted half? < 1319648172 358529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: spoilers ;) < 1319648174 322168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/:/ < 1319648184 182462 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never done underload and i have to agree with elliott < 1319648185 509988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: a bit simpler than that, actually; you don't need the duplicate < 1319648190 668146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer's already been spoiled in-channel < 1319648200 635213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't really an Underload question, anyway, but an understanding-CS-concepts question < 1319648203 857986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it has? alright, then < 1319648216 339398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was maybe a little overly in-depth with his answers < 1319648226 383157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe atehwa really expects us to embed arbitrary substrings in p! < 1319648227 552195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people here, who are generally decent with CS concepts, are going to understand manufacturing a pair easily < 1319648228 33063 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i duplicated so i could still have the pair around later, since that's how i'd use it < 1319648239 535622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, head and tail don't preserve their argument < 1319648251 431647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead, it's typically the caller's duty to duplicate the pair before calling head or tail < 1319648251 568995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's bad form to preserve the argument in concatenative languages < 1319648269 583205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it adds noise to all definition sites and many call sites < 1319648281 878246 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good point. i was doing mentally the duplicating i would do if i used it. < 1319648463 885646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1319648477 482359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh? < 1319648489 910963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have to deal with past me's emacs configuration < 1319648498 964626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just rename ~/.emacs? < 1319648519 212392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd have to put something in its place < 1319648528 995146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current configuration is almost certainly lost forever < 1319648847 119535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where'd tallybot go? < 1319648864 229704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, OK, wrong channel, but you aren't in the right one < 1319648877 493006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it crashed as soon as i pinged it on the new metadynasty < 1319648882 708201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have my private key here < 1319648886 189112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's nothing I can do < 1319648887 358142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1319648894 258894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably an admin made a mistake editing templates < 1319648897 687367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's "here", anyway? < 1319648912 418474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this inferior-but-for-not-being-broken computer < 1319648926 437855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have numbers? < 1319648931 642045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually < 1319648932 673645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am I meant to explain to prgmr that I lost my private key twice in quick succession? < 1319648947 893731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should keep backups of it < 1319648959 9642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and have my backup media break too? < 1319648968 650321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it works like that… < 1319648977 180424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how broken is the computer with it on, anyway? < 1319648986 770552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it working enough to boot it up and ssh in, for instance? < 1319648994 451929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it turned itself off and won't turn back on again < 1319648995 201532 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319649034 9750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what if you remove the battery and run it powered from its charger? < 1319649062 993757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't "remove the battery", that would cause ridiculous structural damage to the whole thing < 1319649074 521894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've tried charging it overnight and nothing < 1319649086 757725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1319649095 664302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not used to laptops with nonreplaceable batteries < 1319649150 77446 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1319649212 328939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION upgrades debian < 1319649241 866255 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1319649259 497698 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to cause structural damage, do it pulling the hard disk :D < 1319649275 137340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you mean the flash chips directly on the motherboard? < 1319649285 743489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only would that work perfectly, it would leave my warranty fully intact < 1319649303 34557 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there was separate storage media with the numbers you require? < 1319649327 917077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which numbers < 1319649379 99853 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :your private key for instance < 1319649394 781010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just generated it in the last week, so no < 1319649559 256264 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319651084 661675 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The story of the cursed SSH key. < 1319651145 286200 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319651210 515540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319651329 265021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319651343 106304 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Phantom_Hoover. < 1319651392 53210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP. < 1319651400 467304 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1319651659 324615 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1319652014 387845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq: Yo, Debianites, help me out. < 1319652375 524560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Debianite! < 1319652413 304407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but you don't know things. < 1319653382 438756 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319653519 58755 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a Debutante < 1319653532 417611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319653818 855023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pserver is no longer officially supported; the cvs package < 1319653818 927716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : does not install any service, inetd, or something similar. < 1319653818 927880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you want to set up a CVS server, use SSH, as shown in: < 1319653819 220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : * http://www.stremler.net/Code/cvs_tricks/cvs-over-ssh.html < 1319653819 385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : * http://www.stremler.net/Code/cvs_tricks/cvs-over-ssh-advanced.html < 1319653819 195086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : * http://www.stremler.net/Code/cvs_tricks/cvs-over-ssh-advanced2.html < 1319653820 836221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1319653849 513277 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol cvs < 1319653864 239258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: apt-get is reading me changelogs :p < 1319653919 688614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on /boot: it got 300meg in that virtual machine that's tine tiny < 1319653924 634005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here i was thinking that sounded big :p < 1319653985 853746 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 300MB just to fit a bootloader, a kernel and a handful of modules is huge < 1319654096 669339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote GFDL < 1319654103 42270 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :141) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. < 1319654131 238105 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that must be it < 1319654277 288865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh lol ompaul thought they meant / < 1319654282 846381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite the context being perfectly obviously about /boo < 1319654283 226724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1319654616 803278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, wine is no longer in wheezy. < 1319654637 435824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's back into sid though. < 1319654643 911782 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian removed wine? < 1319654653 41121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2011-10-22] Accepted 1.0.1-3.4 in unstable (low) (Robert Millan) < 1319654653 172044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2011-08-13] Accepted 1.0.1-3.3 in unstable (low) (Robert Millan) < 1319654653 244545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2011-08-13] Accepted 1.0.1-3.2 in unstable (low) (Robert Millan) < 1319654653 244715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2011-07-08] wine REMOVED from testing (Britney) < 1319654653 244829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# [2010-11-27] wine 1.0.1-3.1 MIGRATED to testing (Britney) < 1319654662 208993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had been terminally unmaintained, apparently < 1319654663 243140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two years < 1319654710 427065 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, pretty sure ubuntu has newer wine packages than that, why is that work not reusable in debian? < 1319654793 38906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1319655108 767487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/lpkye/seriously_the_void_fog_needs_to_go/ < 1319655111 752128 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1319655407 302803 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319655420 541742 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hy < 1319655430 434404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1319655444 244862 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you new?) < 1319655461 824396 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You a Fam Male < 1319655469 697240 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1319655478 387046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1319655479 848027 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found < 1319655483 998545 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1319655486 129284 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1319655492 254868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at that :( < 1319655508 636806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am a Fam Male? What? < 1319655529 527371 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deutsch < 1319655543 780989 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Girl Boy ? < 1319655549 264597 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boy < 1319655559 264967 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oky < 1319655560 735376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319655564 425312 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanks < 1319655576 198658 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of us here are, to be honest < 1319655597 732340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Boxer_ tanks < 1319655601 263726 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319655698 246205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, for the longest time, all of us were. < 1319655715 257090 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This lead to Phantom_Hoover's Laws of Statistical Absurdity. < 1319655730 115280 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1319655812 84105 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1319655880 723108 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are some people not, then? < 1319655955 297625 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me of this humor radio show, parodying the "forest radio" show: (freely paraphrasing from the Finnish) "Hey there all men of the forest; and why not women too -- after all, half the men are women!" < 1319656096 324311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm pretty sure Madoka-Kaname and tiffany aren't. < 1319656191 164402 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1319656284 497787 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1319656386 338138 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319656597 89074 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319656661 512326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I maintain that Madoka-Kaname is actually a 40-year-old man, and we don't talk about tiffany in this house young man. < 1319656859 296885 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319656867 957036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxer_! < 1319656880 789580 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ja < 1319656913 125049 :Boxer_!~King@89.204.153.91 PART :#esoteric < 1319656956 799649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's scared of Finns < 1319656970 927231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxer_ is the best. < 1319657012 647297 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319657040 473627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE < 1319657110 279149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is Boxer_, anyway? < 1319657120 71678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why did he part rather than quit? I get a feeling he/she doesn't like being here < 1319657122 159262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best. < 1319657131 253673 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New chap, apparently German < 1319657136 176364 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the clearing stands a Boxer_, and a fighter by his trade? < 1319657142 460544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least German-speaking < 1319657148 697111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You realise he will have no clue at all what this channel is about. < 1319657199 508116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must attempt to contact this primitive "ger man", and bring the light of civilisation to him and his people. < 1319657346 723579 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is tiffany? should i know tiffany? < 1319657357 532643 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm madoka-kaname's girlfriend < 1319657362 693315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing tiffany will bring only pain and sorrow. < 1319657367 247359 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :._. < 1319657375 759865 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1319657407 275643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For background information, see: < 1319657411 720254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Galatea < 1319657413 125157 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1319657414 39180 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :649) It's like Pygmalion and Galatea but more weeaboo. Also lesbian. < 1319657497 465123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tiffany is an emoticon bot under the delusion that she is intelligent.) < 1319657523 693909 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an emote bot :c < 1319657538 41166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor thing is confused. < 1319657541 381919 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks phantom_hoover in the shin < 1319657550 211772 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone paradoxed her at some point, obviously. < 1319657574 794828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :She doesn't even realise that a) I am a phantom, and hence cannot be kicked and b) I am I hoover, and hence do not have shins. < 1319657586 445440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I am a hoover < 1319657587 723845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am I hoover --Phantom Hoover < 1319657606 679708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a full stop in the middle and it becomes philosophy. < 1319657711 226784 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-177.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319657717 922642 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-43.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1319657721 127240 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Add a full stop in the middle and it becomes philosophy. < 1319657723 572750 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :696) Add a full stop in the middle and it becomes philosophy. < 1319658101 843476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1319658558 977039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658566 36118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658572 184022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658575 703572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658578 611753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658579 265933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658581 215682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658581 751176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658583 70482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658583 545120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658584 394408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658584 907921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658585 911421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658586 388942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658587 755537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658588 365083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658589 141981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658590 671477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658591 827436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658593 304067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1319658593 448635 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1319658594 149075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1319658610 316934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled by a monkey < 1319658616 239672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was so good < 1319658663 220062 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my, you're having FUN in here < 1319658725 542655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, WP lured me to click one of its donation appeals with the prospect of learning what the hell is up with that programmer's face. < 1319658760 376194 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it... brain damage after exposure to python? < 1319658788 692428 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesions of Rossum. < 1319658827 454080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's xkcd was somewhat confusing until i got it < 1319658837 77741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then realized i'd had similar thoughts < 1319658880 818125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could have just caught a bomb in it? < 1319658888 458530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the Blitz, after all. < 1319658907 370870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a well known fact that python turns you into a universal robot < 1319658908 353113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catching a bomb with a wardrobe: easiest thing ever. < 1319658931 520200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you get that pun without googling i'll be somewhat impressed) < 1319658964 116120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain. < 1319658976 909228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, it could have been critical to the war effort. < 1319658985 453630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have all been shot for treason. < 1319658986 584579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you put the bomb in the wardrobe it'll actually explode in narnia < 1319658994 536438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we had an oko pyramid earlier today for the first time in years < 1319659000 940823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was me who messed it up :( < 1319659010 553573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not a pyramid if oklopol isn't involved; was he < 1319659015 69210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was < 1319659025 409761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i kind of find ours unimpressive after observing the #vjn natives < 1319659025 930346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hint: Karel Čapek < 1319659041 997464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1319659110 863953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:41: ^show scramble < 1319659111 175511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:42: >>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1319659111 249930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:43: But it does seem to be. Hmm. < 1319659111 250002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:45: ^show srmlebac < 1319659111 250047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:45: >>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1319659111 434298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:53: Well, those certainly look identical. < 1319659111 530408 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ' when i make a noise," said he, " yet truth is truth: you know you did." a little wink beneath the lid. < 1319659111 603183 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " it's not in nursery fnord? and as for food, our fnord" < 1319659115 849756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're funney aliases. < 1319659134 458709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1319659134 531084 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1319659138 447814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1319659138 583166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently so. I had forgotteded, and was under the impression they did something slightly different. < 1319659155 148946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble scamble < 1319659155 223413 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sabelmc < 1319659158 499245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1319659160 920947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble scramble < 1319659160 993107 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :srmlebac < 1319659175 423127 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :controversipumpk < 1319659184 64577 :controversipumpk!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1319659298 161203 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foiled by NICKLEN=16 again. < 1319659307 992070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:31:22: Constants arn't, well, constant space. < 1319659312 669157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: That's, um, true in general. < 1319659333 659635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/ < 1319659343 197895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The constancy of constants is a constant worry of mine. < 1319659352 447437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1319659353 772035 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319659358 825225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, DCliche found us. < 1319659363 135473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody run. < 1319659368 720168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1319659380 721218 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ the fastest runner. < 1319659388 812144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:07:27: ais523: basically GADTs allow you to specify a so-called phantom type parameter. Each constructor can return a value with a different phantom type as a parameter. < 1319659396 902548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, cakeprophet is totally wrong about this and you should disregard his explanation < 1319659405 942628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks < 1319659409 905341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a better one? < 1319659416 754121 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; in reality you specify a so-called Phantom_Hoover. < 1319659418 694498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just finding someone else who did the same pun < 1319659424 878128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, essentially < 1319659441 965570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/data-type-extensions.html#gadt? < 1319659462 567687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's basically a new syntax for regular ADTs where "data Foo a = A Int String | B [a] a" turns into < 1319659463 951387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo where < 1319659466 936211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : A :: Int -> String -> Foo a < 1319659471 108318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : B :: [a] -> a -> Foo a < 1319659478 347567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then uses that to let you be more specific about the return type < 1319659480 668113 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/GADTs also < 1319659480 740155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1319659485 118945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A :: Int -> Foo String < 1319659491 336308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't possible with ordinary ADTs < 1319659500 454494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this allows you to, e.g. build up typed ASTs < 1319659507 286052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuple :: Term a -> Term b -> Term (a,b) < 1319659540 500601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's not very helpful, but alright < 1319659546 472889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1319659554 784433 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's reasonably helpful < 1319659564 195090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and it subsumes existential quantification because you can do "Foo :: a -> Term b" < 1319659571 385496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo :: (Show a) => a -> Term String < 1319659572 497606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- later < 1319659575 654594 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1319659577 297733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval (Foo x) = show x < 1319659593 190575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1319659609 853281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not exactly what I want in Anarchy either, but sounds like a useful feature to combine with it < 1319659619 182507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also solves the problem with ordinary ADTs that class contexts in data definitions don't do anything useful (and are in fact being removed) < 1319659667 919487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote that's crazy, it almost seems like you have to tell the program how you want it to manipulate the data and not just give it the relevant commands in a random sequence < 1319659669 906723 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :697) that's crazy, it almost seems like you have to tell the program how you want it to manipulate the data and not just give it the relevant commands in a random sequence < 1319659735 268766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let stringise_anything_with_integer_leaves = match < 1319659736 686412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| Leaf x -> x = string_of_int x < 1319659738 170284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| _ -> recurse < 1319659747 100653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some Anarchy for you < 1319659754 258411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like syb stuff < 1319659758 972189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syb? < 1319659763 249366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrap your boilerplate < 1319659763 321701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :syb < 1319659769 181436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you can do that with Data.Data < 1319659775 493804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, Anarchy's a lot about getting rid of boilerplate < 1319659788 194487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrap your boilerplate is an actual thing < 1319659797 998949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1319659798 111769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which language? < 1319659801 905155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell < 1319659808 96469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every functional programming language technique has been done in haskell < 1319659822 227870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319659835 327973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1319659836 196903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not uniqueness types, i think < 1319659837 698994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/../.../ < 1319659840 637697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: true :P < 1319659860 47465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchy also has some other fun features < 1319659865 770325 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or linear typing, but that's pretty much the same AIUI < 1319659867 862360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not implemented yet, but I have a vague spec < 1319659885 977411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains all the new language features, but not any of the stuff that's generically available in languages that you actually need < 1319659887 955688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, that function makes no sense < 1319659896 600521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, stringise_anything_with_integer_leaves? < 1319659898 248425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or, wait, is it mutating the tree? < 1319659903 475939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dependent types, i think < 1319659903 773527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is stringise_anything_with_integer_leaves' type < 1319659905 401263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's copy-mutating it < 1319659934 630023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its type is polymorphic: ('a | Leaf Int) -> ('a | Leaf String) < 1319659945 189830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 'a can contain any bunch of type constructors < 1319659951 945130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including recursive ones < 1319659957 76049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mutually recursive ones < 1319659965 624405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1319659968 921292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a look at "everywhere" < 1319659977 408719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/syb/0.3.3/doc/html/Data-Generics-Schemes.html < 1319659980 294388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a very searchenginable term < 1319660003 687217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: f.e. everywhere (mkT show) < 1319660007 460221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that term is everywhere < 1319660017 136652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think syb might actually be useful for the planned purpose of Anarchy < 1319660017 369131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo a = Leaf a | Blah (Foo a) (Foo [a]) | Bluh (Foo a) (Foo a) < 1319660024 880207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll keep going with Anarchy anyway beacuse it's a fun language < 1319660026 702501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere (mkT show) :: (Show a) => Foo a -> Foo String < 1319660027 320416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1319660034 109081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll transform on the leaves < 1319660037 707630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including inside the lists < 1319660058 459222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let frobnify_types = match < 1319660059 770089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| x'type(y) -> frobnify y; recurse x < 1319660065 947364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stick metadata on things < 1319660070 202523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ignored except when you explicitly mention it < 1319660077 146424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "x'type(y)" in less stupid syntax < 1319660090 650805 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rude!! < 1319660103 137243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mean < 1319660171 189571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if the concept exists in many other languages, but it's basically a pattern that matches anything (x) that has a "type" metadata field with value y < 1319660200 378619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (x with Type y) or something < 1319660206 599600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, if you like < 1319660239 690220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, programs are starting to break when I open them; the Debian upgrade must be almost finished < 1319660272 14737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that makes a copy which recurses into x, and replaces the type metadata with a frobnified version < 1319660281 868409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an implicit "| _ -> recurse" case at the end of that < 1319660291 565842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no there isn't < 1319660297 333891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like anarchy would be nice for tree processing and little else :P < 1319660300 262396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a compile-time error if the tree doesn't have 'type everywhere < 1319660303 777930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's its intended purpose < 1319660304 64271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, lots of things are tree processing < 1319660313 318918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just fine with it being useless for anything but tree processing < 1319660319 139413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/I5FMs.png < 1319660325 559773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ debian upgrades < 1319660371 258142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1319660391 977313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, the syb website gives me a 403 < 1319660396 119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not particularly encouraging… < 1319660414 61199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :syb is maintained as part of the core haskell libraries < 1319660424 296015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://hackage.haskell.org/package/syb, and http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base (the core is in Data.Data) < 1319660440 134180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.uu.nl/wiki/GenericProgramming/SYB is the linked website there < 1319660460 84366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Data.Data has to be in base because of the compiler support for deriving instances) < 1319661385 505421 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319661741 545396 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1319662019 111070 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1319662195 259317 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C10A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319663514 985505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319663681 358229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1319663884 58757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think this thing is probably due for a clean install < 1319664031 852510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this is a pretty nifty old script of mine. < 1319664778 150533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, this is some cool old code. < 1319664834 522136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do something useful? < 1319664882 177961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ostensibly! < 1319664887 659345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I've invented my own dependency system here. < 1319664981 760826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* previously a function, but a macro produces smaller executables < 1319664981 922852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (bad inlining?) */ < 1319665060 265885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think like half of these programs are full o' goto. < 1319665078 742232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should see the code C-INTERCAL generates some time < 1319665080 851180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with -e < 1319665085 530824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* FIXME: inexplicably broken */ < 1319665089 641457 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319665118 932760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/XHdI < 1319665125 13953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of elegant in its own twisted way < 1319665164 662409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that a safer rm? < 1319665170 270459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safer howso? < 1319665186 75183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1319665193 227709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :less chance of deleting stuff you actually want, or something < 1319665198 575207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an rm implementation altogether, right? < 1319665201 416918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1319665217 83334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what possessed you to reimplement rm? < 1319665225 31165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cRDY I love how many of these programs start with comments to the effect of "just doesn't work" < 1319665239 361404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like my sliding four-character buffer. < 1319665293 330465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what OS to install on here for the few weeks of agony < 1319665305 953485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm sufficiently annoyed at Xfce's taskbar to rule it out < 1319665306 25975 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista < 1319665308 17884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, I saw the "strings" in the usage message before I figured out what it did < 1319665311 12089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not ready to take the xmonad plunge yet < 1319665311 817506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aww < 1319665336 389539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what made you reimplement the POSIX userland, anyway? so you could truthfully say "Linux" not "GNU/Linux"? < 1319665361 540761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this was part of my tiny-executable fetishism. < 1319665371 22745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will still lose to busybox < 1319665372 235021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're certainly nicer than coreutils implementations, though. :p < 1319665375 334400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, no < 1319665383 750530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these all came out much, much smaller than busybox < 1319665394 313440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1319665394 386015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox tools aren't really that small at all < 1319665400 374921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of them are based on coreutils ones, even < 1319665460 480540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I really like this thing's cal implementation < 1319665474 311747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using pikhq's brilliant pseudo-coroutine thing to do the layout < 1319665508 618804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you implement ddate? < 1319665527 584858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( shame on me < 1319665545 779184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the static binary of all of these tools is 14.7 kilobytes in total < 1319665558 288618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basename, cal, cat, date, dirname, echo, env, false, kill, link, mkdir, < 1319665563 516870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv, pwd, rm, signal, sleep, < 1319665570 982605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings, true, uname, vis, yes, < 1319665572 106126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot < 1319665585 59120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which don't work :P < 1319665609 320412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, the best part is that the build system has special support for true/false < 1319665613 38915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just so they can skip libc entirely < 1319665620 530774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUEFALSECC := /opt/pcc-dietlibc/bin/pcc < 1319665620 603212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUEFALSECFLAGS := \ < 1319665620 603365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -Os -nostdlib -nostdinc -nostartfiles \ < 1319665620 603499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -isystem /opt/pcc-dietlibc/include -D__dietlibc__ \ < 1319665620 603604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -D__restrict__= /opt/pcc-dietlibc/lib-x86_64/libc.a \ < 1319665621 518363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(CFLAGS) < 1319665631 615782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what language were true/false written in? < 1319665639 216654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say anything higher-level than asm, I'll be disappointed < 1319665652 794969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, you should just pack all the code into the ELF headers < 1319665680 449883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I too have read breadbox's page on that < 1319665696 132543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, that's why I referenced it rather than having to explain it to you < 1319665707 330615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, very non-portable C, but it comes out to the same thing as asm, since they look like this: < 1319665708 29411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1319665708 102175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void _start(void) < 1319665708 102342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1319665708 102453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : _exit(0); < 1319665708 545536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1319665728 103915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring, no "goto *(void*)0;"? < 1319665731 78710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319665746 559131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is probably going to be the least portable line of C I've ever written forever < 1319665774 540834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even, strictly-speaking, C? < 1319665992 744210 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1319666023 276117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1319666026 382018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox is ignoring my dpi settings < 1319666028 521460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, it's accepted by at least one strictly-conforming compiler < 1319666038 169878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that compiler is gcc-bf < 1319666044 286624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't believe such compilers exist < 1319666051 199198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe stock gcc will also be able to parse and compile the line, although it doesn't do anything useful) < 1319666111 744908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right then, time to write some fucking C bindings < 1319666136 278189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523: this is for tallybot, by the way...) < 1319666187 34739 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to write a bot < 1319666193 556404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I never figured out how < 1319666304 53400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric : i was going to port my bot to my vps < 1319666308 765058 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i never time < 1319666331 416312 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you decide whether the verb is "had" or "made") < 1319666382 172281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* something went wrong but we just ignore it for now... */ < 1319666513 289722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is cool enough for me to try and preserve it: http://sprunge.us/WCXI?python < 1319666674 490679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :72 # I hate ais523 < 1319666688 751082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was because I had to rewrite it to handle C-INTERCAL's tarball names < 1319666703 53526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they use final -s to do something other than separate name and version :) < 1319666705 553275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed it was INTERCAL-related < 1319666731 777459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an automatic build script that just invokes things like configure, right? < 1319666746 37446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, download/configure/build/install < 1319666759 273229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ inst http://path/to/tarball installs that package into /opt/pkgname < 1319666766 163212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it works surprisingly well < 1319666815 977350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I have azip here < 1319666886 256747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it automatically unpack .az files? < 1319666895 671830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still pretty pleased at getting it to beat bz2 < 1319666906 583629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just goes to show that most compression algo designers aren't trying hard enough < 1319666948 209156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it doesn't :) < 1319666950 474512 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bz2 hardly involves much trying < 1319666975 13088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it beats gz even with stupid encodings for numbers < 1319666976 739018 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much BWT + the minimal stuff to compress it < 1319666984 362739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1319666987 202674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: does it automatically unpack .az files? < 1319667008 161595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1319667096 462828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Thanks for pointing me at NetSurf ages back, btw < 1319667192 472362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1319667198 822122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't deal with it, I have to reinstall to get a newer ghc < 1319667207 524414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Does Arch have a civilised GHC version yet < 1319667215 162669 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No < 1319667225 957870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys < 1319667239 717218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGH. < 1319667247 331149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a programmer meant to do??? < 1319667254 544231 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressively it doesn't even have the latest stable release < 1319667256 513470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you hated Arch anyway? < 1319667262 291408 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.0.3 instead of .4 < 1319667271 682684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but there's no way Debian has a civilised GHC. < 1319667278 73429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember my hatred of sshc being ruined when I looked at the logs and it turned out he was actually an idiot. < 1319667283 742453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 7.2 is "stable", it's just a "preview release". < 1319667298 613952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i.e. they released it as stable then decided to slap warnings on it when it turned out to be buggy. < 1319667334 411194 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, if it comes with warnings people won't treat it as stable < 1319667366 318193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah OK so is there an OS that has the latest GHC :-p < 1319667373 40627 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows < 1319667385 416565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319667394 785952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Windows does not have the latest GHC. < 1319667399 153315 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo? < 1319667405 47971 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, depends on how you think about it < 1319667405 521711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that argument practically everything does because there's binary packages < 1319667405 869332 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just a guess) < 1319667421 292488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/ghc < 1319667421 964129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1319667422 275427 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The typical method of installing stuff on Windows has the latest GHC < 1319667481 77020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/ghc < 1319667485 316142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBLEM SOLVED. < 1319667561 998041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1319667594 182665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, does Arch even still have GNOME 2 < 1319667771 809680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1319667773 289123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319667789 678218 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.135.100.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1319667794 622372 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.135.100.102 PART :#esoteric < 1319667884 59728 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1319667956 235355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more gnome, or? < 1319667963 870968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where is pun < 1319667981 505558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat, Arch are actually not shipping gnome 2 at all < 1319667989 909228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fits in with their characteristic march-forwards-at-all-costs attitude < 1319668009 25378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as previously, read it aloud. although my pronunciation may be off, i'm just a lowly norwegian. < 1319668009 98317 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1319668021 479192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: idgi < 1319668046 79700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a rhyme than a pun < 1319668056 265119 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1319668057 557891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of works < 1319668066 642010 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1319668120 323806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, they have their own ~gnome 2 fork~ < 1319668222 242679 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "they" = "some guy who uploaded it to AUR"? < 1319668252 454225 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1319668464 894353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep < 1319668476 75953 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1319668479 645806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a wiki article :P < 1319668494 46918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some guy who wiki articled it < 1319668501 5854 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "some guy who wrote an article" as well < 1319668613 900219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Some guy who made a Linux distribution < 1319668634 719981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, it is huge. I'm alone. Thankyou so much." < 1319668636 507498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep gnome thoughts < 1319668637 199032 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is not, in any way, affiliated with this gnome 2 fork < 1319668648 931911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, they're both some guys < 1319668694 493210 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I read your "they" as referring to Arch < 1319668711 983616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I would just use a standalone WM if I wasn't so attached to panels < 1319668720 721354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know of no decent panel implementation other than GNOME2's < 1319668736 670156 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you use it with a different WM < 1319668757 891254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're missing the part where it's not in the repositories < 1319668763 856384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because OMG OMG OMG GNOME3 < 1319668765 167784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO NEW < 1319668767 214119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO SHINY < 1319668785 623012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't get updated anyway, no? < 1319668793 300992 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just manually install it < 1319668810 11597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, that sounds sustainable < 1319668821 588296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like said, it won't get updated... < 1319668832 373392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, so I need to run something else. < 1319668861 148503 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fork is presumably closest to your needs, then :-P < 1319668881 290245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah except I know it'll be totally fucked in some awful way, and also it's one big monolithic project so I can't pull out the panel < 1319668884 693332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows a good panel < 1319668907 635733 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so special about gnome2's panel < 1319669005 926335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nothing at all, it just isn't horribly broken < 1319669018 412497 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are other panels horribly broken < 1319669018 935547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: e.g. In Xfce's, you can't even rearrange windows on the task bar < 1319669048 427652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE's will probably pull in ~seventy billion KDE dependencies and look like crap and I know it want to be all transparent vector blah blah instead of just using widgets, so I'm disinclined to try it out < 1319669058 643722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319669100 534793 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use xfce4's, can't say I've felt the need for that feature :-P < 1319669224 892857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it all the time to optimise access to a related set of windows, apparently the Xfce devs' opinion on this is that it takes more code so who cares < 1319669255 124397 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really use the panel to see what's open anyway < 1319669288 514063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha, Deewiant is an Alt-Tab user < 1319669320 6717 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Unity because I am tasteless, weird, and don't actually know what you are talking about < 1319669325 776890 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a panel-like thing but really it's just a clock, the list of workspaces i'm using, and the title of the currently focused window < 1319669337 690598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all monqy needs" < 1319669341 215784 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1319669369 749108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it has the name of the tiling method i'm using i forgot about that < 1319669459 18306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Really though Xfce mostly satisfies me, it's just that where it differs from GNOME 2 it's usually inferior < 1319669472 634165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: xfce-terminal is just close enough to gnome-terminal to annoy me about all the ways it differs < 1319669488 93398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever their archive manager is called is awful, and their media player is about a billion times worse than Totem < 1319669488 870684 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use xfce4-panel, I don't know anything about the rest of it (nor gnome) < 1319669504 570622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just use the console exclusievly. < 1319669510 27915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclusively. < 1319669512 16382 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I sleep now --> < 1319669546 624029 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'quote < 1319669561 974790 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the wrong punctuation, didn't I? < 1319669563 481450 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1319669565 577773 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :102) think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat < 1319669629 165062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, Arch it is I think < 1319669732 167908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1319669733 369283 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1319669754 659229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oehi < 1319669755 533336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1319669759 925651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1319669901 627259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [r]otting sea life to eat < 1319669928 104083 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-03-21.txt:04:11:18: think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat < 1319669955 118063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. looks genuine then. < 1319669965 31553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what < 1319669966 531788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that sounded to me like oklopol < 1319669969 768813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1319670217 530240 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1319670230 852968 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-43-223.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319670381 443997 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1319670431 539743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1319670445 953000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing OSes without an optical drive sucks bigtime. < 1319670599 401785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a week until my birthday < 1319670662 868981 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh, installing oses without optical drive. that stuff's fun < 1319670684 766133 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly, I generally use SD cards to install OSs < 1319670690 144316 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am like that < 1319670737 550212 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1319670850 125456 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-67.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319670875 868983 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-177.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1319670886 319592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, remember, the third of november < 1319670940 83115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TfTY ;; someone tell me this isn't a lovely cal(1) < 1319671106 269530 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1319671107 749869 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-171-118.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1319671168 860375 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the functions write() and writes()? < 1319671227 197960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: write() is standard syscall < 1319671233 521122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writes(fd,s) is write(fd,s,sizeof(s)-1) < 1319671240 352953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. avoid specifying length for constant strings < 1319671253 4206 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1319671303 936213 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-43-223.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1319671324 597533 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone highlight me? < 1319671340 765099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did :-P < 1319671376 896712 :augur!~augur@c-68-49-43-223.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1319671830 150553 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C10A.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1319673487 385347 :evincar!~jon@acd41302879.wireless.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1319673511 601356 :evincar!~jon@acd41302879.wireless.rit.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having a small bit of trouble parsing the lambda syntax in Even. < 1319673561 917858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using haskell? >:P < 1319673579 356401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var$cycle"Parsec! " < 1319673580 155311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Parsec! Par...