00:15:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:24:23 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:27:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:29:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:31:50 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:39 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:09:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:36 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:40:50 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 01:48:01 -!- augur has joined. 01:49:32 quintopia, seriously 01:49:34 ... 01:49:35 ;.; 01:54:19 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:34:12 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:40:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:53:21 -!- augur has joined. 03:09:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:10:45 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:28:52 -!- JamesTaggart has quit (K-Lined). 03:51:03 I think I managed to make a BarrierT monad that transforms a comonad. 03:51:42 oh? 03:52:16 data BarrierT f b w t = UnitT t | BarrierT f (w b -> BarrierT f b w t); 03:52:42 fmap f (UnitT x) = UnitT $ f x; fmap f (BarrierT a c) = BarrierT a $ fmap f . c; return = UnitT; join (UnitT x) = x; join (BarrierT a c) = BarrierT a $ join . extract . extend c; 03:52:56 I have not checked if it correctly follows the monad laws, assuming w follows the comonad laws. 04:01:27 Other functions are: wliftT :: (w b -> t) -> a -> BarrierT a b w t; yieldT :: Comonad w => f -> BarrierT f t w t; collectT :: Comonad w => w (BarrierT f () w t) -> [f]; operateT :: (Monad m, Comonad w) => (w f -> m (w b)) -> w (BarrierT f b w t) -> m (w t); 04:02:25 (But I don't really like the name "wliftT" much and want to know if you can suggest a better name?) 04:09:21 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 04:12:20 -!- variable has joined. 04:19:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:19:41 Madoka-Kaname: yes it was a sad day 04:29:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:37:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:58 elll...dammit 05:03:59 Sgeo|web: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 05:04:49 I'll read them after I watch EoA5. And no one's here 05:04:51 Dammit 05:17:37 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:29:05 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:36:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:36:29 -!- augur has joined. 05:51:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:52:30 I try to think of, how can I make something like the = in TNT, using the Haskell type system? 05:59:51 Is there a way? 06:14:37 Would some of the GHC extensions help? 06:15:54 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 06:26:46 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:00:43 -!- ive has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:30:11 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 07:31:17 @message elliott If you can find a download, EoA5 is up 07:31:18 Maybe you meant: messages messages? 07:31:25 @tell elliott If you can find a download, EoA5 is up 07:31:25 Consider it noted. 07:31:34 @tell Phantom_Hoover If you can find a download, EoA5 is up 07:31:34 Consider it noted. 07:31:41 @tell CakeProphet If you can find a download, EoA5 is up 07:31:41 Consider it noted. 07:42:15 It seem to me, if the terms are types, then equality corresponds to isomorphism, but as far as I know there is no way to express that in the type system. 07:50:04 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:52:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:16:40 -!- derrik has joined. 08:23:11 -!- Ngevd has joined. 08:45:24 http://rincebrain.org/Cascade.torrent 08:45:32 ^^ EoA5 torrent 08:45:42 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CG0O78QW 08:45:47 Already watched 08:45:51 ^^ MegaUpload download 08:46:14 This is for the other Homestucker's reference, I wasn't aware that you're a Homestuck person, sorry 08:46:25 Nobody ever is... 08:46:31 But I get my updates via RSS 08:47:35 Well, you're lucky that you were able to watch it 08:47:39 Newgrounds crashed 08:47:46 I used the Megaupload 08:47:49 Ah, ok 08:50:35 Now that I made classical logic in Haskell, I want to make number theory logic as well, but I cannot figure out how. 08:55:59 I just got up to that chapter in Godel, Escher and Bach 08:57:34 One idea is to make a new kind of function type that can only hold bijective functions, allowing some reversible computing stuff done in Haskell. 09:02:50 I don't think that you can verify that two functions reverse each other, but you could store a pair of (a -> b, b -> a) 09:02:57 Then agian, why am I talking? 09:04:38 Sgeo|web: I did think of that, but that won't work because they are not necessarily inverses of each other 09:04:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:06:02 -!- nooga has joined. 09:09:36 Maybe Template Haskell could be used somehow? 09:16:42 ais523, wiki spam 09:17:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:18:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:24:29 Also, yeah, new pages first 09:24:37 Before [S] wow, so 09:29:33 CakeProphet: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 09:29:38 .... o_o 09:29:49 so using single quotes in a single quoted string in bash 09:29:54 is perhaps the worst thing I've ever seen. 09:30:05 (and technically not possible; I'm referring to the workaround) 09:31:47 `run echo 'this is how you '\''embed'\'' single quotes in a single quoted string. Note the '\''elegance'\''.' 09:31:53 this is how you 'embed' single quotes in a single quoted string. Note the 'elegance'. 09:39:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:40:21 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:03:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:03:12 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 10:05:11 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:09:47 Hi CakeProphet 10:17:34 regrg 10:23:41 Did you watch it? 10:28:57 Is there a program to check that a Haskell program (or specified parts of it) have the properties: No loops. No nonexhaustive patterns. No undefined values. And possibly others that are user-specifiable. 10:30:51 zzo38: do you mean no infinite loops? if so, that's impossible in general 10:30:54 or no loops at all? 10:31:22 nonexhaustive patterns can be quite easy to check (e.g. it's a standard warning in OCaml) 10:32:10 No loops at all. 10:32:15 -!- atehwa has set topic: EPL evening school assignments! http://tinyurl.com/5stnu5n | 12345678^&!* | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 10:32:41 I know that infinite loops are impossible to check in general. 10:32:44 atehwa: ooh, an Underload reference 10:33:23 in fact, Underload tutorial 10:33:23 ais523: verily :) 10:33:57 otherwise, there would be no hope the students could get into the assignments 10:34:09 I'm afraid the assignments are too hard as they are 10:34:21 possibly 10:34:25 the better students will enjoy doing them, though 10:34:34 btw, my usual Underload pair representation is ((a)(b)) 10:34:37 yeah 10:34:44 I'd go with that, too. 10:34:47 using ^~! and ^! as first and second 10:35:00 yes, that was a quick answer for #3 10:35:02 the usual Underload list representation uses pairs as cons cells 10:35:07 don't tell my students, though :) 10:35:10 heh 10:35:29 e.g. ((a)((b)((c)((d)())))) 10:35:34 but that's what I thought of first, too. 10:35:40 although what you use to represent nil is an issue of its own 10:35:50 yes 10:35:59 the typical Underlambda representation is rather simpler: ((a)(b)(c)(d)) 10:36:07 Underlambda? 10:36:11 and the language and standard library has support for that representation 10:36:22 atehwa: it's my latest attempt to make a more serious Underload-based language 10:36:28 hum, ok 10:36:45 unlike Underload, it uses functions rather than strings as the basic type 10:37:01 starts to sound like Lisp2k 10:37:24 and it's designed to be very easy to implement a TC subset of it, easy to implement the whole language in that TC subject, and easy to implement other esolangs in the whole language 10:37:36 so the idea's that eventually you'd get a whole load of esolang cross-compilers/cross-interpreters 10:38:06 -!- derdon has joined. 10:39:12 -!- derrik has left. 10:39:14 -!- derrik has joined. 10:39:21 so the point is to get another bootstrapping environment :) 10:40:23 What is the list near the bottom with INTERCAL, Befunge, Brainfuck (Brainbool, Paintfuck, ...), FALSE, Malbolge, etc? 10:40:45 a list of interesting esolangs 10:40:59 Sgeo|web: no, real life is exhausting, etc. I'm going to sleep now. 10:41:08 zzo38: it was the list of languages that I though would be worth mentioning in the evening school 10:41:10 it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them 10:41:15 and you get a new interesting esolang 10:41:22 diagonal principle… 10:41:27 ais523: whoa :D 10:42:05 but diagonalisation does not work with esolangs with finite definitions 10:42:08 atehwa: Do the multiple esolangs on the same line mean mentioned together? 10:42:30 zzo38: yes, they are "thematically bound" 10:42:42 thematically connected, more like 10:42:51 I can understand that. 10:43:57 I'd like to have something more workable than noit o'mnain worb for stochastic automata 10:45:23 #esoteric needs to figure out how to write programs in noit o'mnain worb some time 10:46:28 I think it can't be done, really 10:46:59 rather, someone would have to design a language with the same computation principle, but with working machinery for building transistors. 10:47:12 I'm not convinced that you can't build a transistor 10:47:13 and stable current, too 10:47:22 the issue is, I'm also not convinced that you can build a transistor with hFE > 1 10:47:33 I'm not totally sure, either, I haven't seen it conclusively disproved 10:48:59 zzo38: as a more precise answer, the title "Historiallisesti tai aiheeltaan trkeit kieli" means "historically or thematically important languages" 10:49:25 atehwa: OK. And now you also explained why that is there; thanks for that too. 10:50:42 @tell elliott There are non-[S] updates before the [S] 10:50:42 Consider it noted. 10:50:59 @tell Phantom_Hoover There are non-[S] updates before the [S] 10:50:59 Consider it noted. 10:55:30 -!- Ngevd has joined. 10:55:47 my programming languages are only good for moving people around the world and destroying ozone layers. 10:58:54 If there is a program to check some of the properties of a Haskell program, like I have described, then it could be like a proof checker if the Haskell program is seen as a proof according to Curry-Howard. Another possible use is it might allow certain optimizations to be performed on such a program. 11:03:14 I had the idea to represent equality of natural numbers as bijective function types. Haskell has no such type that is restricted to bijective functions; but if it did, it would be helpful that you can make reversible computing in Haskell! 11:03:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:03:41 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:08:10 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:10:36 For example, (Maybe (Maybe Zero), Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero))) is isomorphic to (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero)))))), I think 11:11:36 Did I do it correctly? 11:11:43 -!- sllide has joined. 11:14:13 * ais523 submits anagolf problem 11:14:49 OK 11:15:00 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:15:13 Do you know what I am meaning by this stuff? 11:15:51 yes, but I'm not sure of the answer 11:22:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 11:23:37 ^ul ()(~(*)*:S:(\n)S~:^):^ 11:23:37 *\n 11:23:45 ^ul ()(~(*)*:S(\n)S~:^):^ 11:23:45 *\n**\n***\n****\n*****\n******\n*******\n********\n*********\n**********\n***********\n************\n*************\n**************\n***************\n****************\n*****************\n******************\n*******************\n********************\n*********************\n**********************\n***********************\n** ...too much output! 11:23:48 there we go 11:23:58 'twas right second time 11:24:25 and one possible answer to question 2, is that it does have two stacks: the data stack, and the program stack 11:24:49 (another is that you store entire stacks in a stack element, and get more stacks that way) 11:32:33 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:39:38 hmm, I think I just noticed community self-parody on Slashdot 11:39:53 where someone linked to the page where a future xkcd comic will eventually appear, in the hope that it would be at least loosely relevant 12:18:57 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:27:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:33:37 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:40:55 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:44:47 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:45:06 -!- PH has joined. 12:45:17 What are the haps my friends? 12:50:05 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:53:35 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:59:24 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:59:42 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:00:09 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:02:21 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft. 13:10:47 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:11:57 -!- PH has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:17:47 -!- PH has joined. 13:38:55 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has joined. 13:43:00 Hello! 14:09:21 What is the fixity for -> and can I set fixity for type operators 14:15:07 -!- PH has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:21:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:44:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:44:47 It just occurred to me to check if lambdabot has any messages.; 14:44:48 Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:45:04 I guess that's a yes, then 14:45:43 I miss the old days when elliott would read the Homestuck blogs on tumblr and then send me about ten messages bitching about them.\ 14:45:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:47:21 OK I suppose it would be prudent to actually get some work done at some point. 14:47:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 14:48:14 -!- PH_ has joined. 14:48:45 Taneb|Hovercraft: wait what the hell were you doing online at half eight. 14:48:57 I was online at half eight? 14:49:30 Woah, I was 14:49:35 Huh 14:49:43 I'm a morning person? 14:50:26 -!- augur has joined. 14:54:09 Taneb|Hovercraft: don't... don't you have school. 14:54:18 Half term 14:54:49 England's a couple of weeks out of sync with Scotland, if memory serves 14:56:20 * PH_ eyes elliott's chair suspiciously. 14:56:42 OK I'm going back to pretending I'm just about to do some work bye. 14:56:43 -!- PH_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:04:31 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:47:19 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has joined. 15:47:37 I've got a confession to make 15:47:43 I'm not actually on a hovercraft 15:48:39 9/me cries 15:48:48 without the 9 that works better 15:49:10 in any case, i am so brokenhearted at the lack of hovercraft 15:58:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:58:30 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:14:16 Computing while standing on one leg is surprisingly comfortable. 16:26:18 Where's elliott when you need him 16:26:43 I need a restaurant recommendation near Hexham 16:28:18 Pick a random restaurant. 16:34:12 Wait, no, I have a better idea. 16:36:36 Use http://random.irb.hr/ to select a restaurant, and rest assured that some parallel Taneb went to the right restaurant. 16:37:04 But it's for my birthday meal! 16:38:44 Quantum birthday! 16:38:47 Best birthday. 16:39:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:39:13 I know someone who experienced a combination of a near death experience and quantum immortality 16:41:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:41:56 EPL? 16:42:30 He got hit by a car, went home, had pizza, and woke up in hospital three weeks later, having not actually had pizza 16:43:28 Did he have his stomach pumped? 16:43:50 No, he had imagined eating pizza 16:44:04 Or ate pizza in a universe which had its waveform collapsed 16:46:10 Oh FFS, Prequel had an [S] update as well? 16:46:24 That's an FA, right? 16:46:30 The best FA. 16:47:25 Oh my god this is the best update 16:48:49 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:52:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:22:23 -!- monqy has joined. 17:30:41 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has joined. 17:44:24 Comment on the EPL evening school assignments: 17:44:55 The answer to weekly assignment two question two can be found within one link from that page 17:45:21 EPL? 17:45:27 Look at the topic 17:45:35 Oh, that's what that was all about. 17:54:35 ...How does one do line breaks in underload 17:54:36 ? 18:04:04 -!- Vonlebio has joined. 18:05:57 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Client Quit). 18:15:09 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:17:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:32:02 -!- Zuu has joined. 18:32:07 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 18:32:07 -!- Zuu has joined. 18:35:05 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:45:06 @pl \x -> \y -> x && (not y) 18:45:06 (. not) . (&&) 19:08:11 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to amphitheater. 19:09:36 -!- amphitheater has changed nick to copumpkin. 19:26:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 19:28:16 Aargh 19:28:43 The left channel on these headphones is broken, and I can't work out how to force everything into mono so I can listen to stereo stuff. 19:31:57 get working headphones 19:32:29 This is not a practical short-term solution. 19:32:39 yes it is 19:33:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:33:38 Short-term as in right now. 19:33:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:53 -!- Vonlebio has joined. 19:36:05 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Client Quit). 19:37:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:39:09 @tell zzo38 Now that I made classical logic in Haskell, I want to make number theory logic as well, but I cannot figure out how. <-- i think perhaps the problem is that your classical logic is purely propositional, but number theory requires quantifiers, so may essentially need dependent types which haskell doesn't have 19:39:09 Consider it noted. 19:40:30 `quote 19:40:33 465) drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, 19:42:03 @tell zzo38 Although the type system (with UndecidableInstances) _is_ TC, so there should be _some_ way to encode it, but perhaps not in a way using the curry-howard isomorphism directly 19:42:03 Consider it noted. 19:45:25 -!- tiffany has joined. 19:50:54 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: Bye). 19:51:02 -!- tiffany has joined. 19:53:30 `addquote it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them and you get a new interesting esolang diagonal principle… 19:53:32 694) it's not a list of /all/ interesting esolangs, btw; otherwise you can take the first command from the first esolang, the second from the second, the third from the third, etc, then add 1 to all of them and you get a new interesting esolang diagonal principle… 19:54:03 But must the result be interesting? 19:54:09 ... 19:54:21 Most interesting esolangs wouldn't even be partitionable into commands that way. 19:54:30 Phantom_Hoover: does it feel drafty in here? 19:54:51 No, it's quite warm in fact. 19:54:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:55:35 i guess the draft is _way_ above your head, then 19:56:14 I think the resulting esolang would be interesting just based on the method of construction 19:56:23 good point 19:57:15 ais523, perhaps, but extending it infinitely would not necessarily result in an infinite series of interesting esolangs. 19:58:02 -!- tiffany has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:58:23 -!- tiffany has joined. 19:58:29 the issue is, I'm also not convinced that you can build a transistor with hFE > 1 <-- does noit o'mnain worb have some analogy to the second law of thermodynamics, perhaps? 19:59:03 oerjan: I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me 20:04:55 @tell zzo38 What is the fixity for -> and can I set fixity for type operators <-- infixr 0 and yes, says http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/data-type-extensions.html#infix-tycons 20:04:55 Consider it noted. 20:06:12 hm why isn't it `T` in the example, might be a typo 20:06:51 > let infixl 0 `t`; t = (+) in 2 `t` 3 * 5 20:06:52 17 20:07:01 > let infixl 0 t; t = (+) in 2 `t` 3 * 5 20:07:02 : parse error on input `t' 20:07:51 -!- tiffany has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:56 @tell zzo38 I suspect there's a typo and the example should be infixl 7 `T`, :*: 20:07:56 Consider it noted. 20:09:21 -!- tiffany has joined. 20:12:01 Or ate pizza in a universe which had its waveform collapsed 20:12:29 i wish my waveforms would collapse in a direction more consistent with my wishes 20:13:18 ...How does one do line breaks in underload 20:13:32 Ngevd: just put them in the program. doesn't work on irc, of course. 20:13:59 Ooh, sneaky 20:14:15 also, (...)! is a comment, which you can put line breaks in (i've used that for several of the programs on the wiki) 20:16:05 they need to be put inside strings, not as executed commands (which will usually error out) 20:16:36 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: take carezz). 20:24:40 -!- augur has joined. 20:28:50 -!- elliott has joined. 20:30:42 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6). 20:30:54 elliott: it's up 20:31:05 It's watched. 20:31:06 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 20:32:00 -!- tiffany has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:53 -!- tiffany has joined. 20:34:25 -!- tiffany has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:42 Sgeo|web: Wait, it /crashed Newgrounds/? 20:34:48 This has to be some kind of record. 20:35:01 -!- tiffany has joined. 20:35:56 Also, elliott, recommend a restaurant, dammit! 20:36:06 #esoteric 20:36:58 elliott: in a manner of minutes, iirc 20:37:18 * oerjan is going to believe elliott never goes to restaurants 20:37:36 oerjan believes many a thing 20:37:55 20:38:08 * oerjan swats Sgeo|web -----### 20:38:29 Which past beliefs 20:40:41 Astrology 20:41:20 Sgeo|web: Wait, it /crashed Newgrounds/? 20:41:28 In about two minutes, at that. 20:42:29 I saw someone on Twitter joke that Hussie posted it on the CIA website, and crashed the government 20:42:31 Sgeo|web: I think you're confusing past and current beliefs 20:43:03 -!- tiffany has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:35 -!- tiffany has joined. 20:53:42 -!- derdon has joined. 20:59:33 Sgeo|web: Looks like it just slowed down Newgrounds, not crashed it, and then Hussie took it off 20:59:40 Since it wasn't working 21:00:28 Newgrounds was showing maintenance pages for at least some time. 21:01:06 (Citation: hearsay from the SA thread.) 21:01:19 Oh, that thing will be back now. 21:01:22 How many pages is it already? 21:01:32 They started a new thread. 21:01:38 It's on ~10, IIRC. 21:02:10 Phantom_Hoover: Twenty-two; 21:02:12 s/;/./ 21:04:24 -!- copumpki_ has joined. 21:06:00 If this had been some esoteric language where && had meant "subtract by three, but only if it's a full moon and Elvis is playing on the radio" I'd have agreed the OP should have explained it. 21:06:04 anyone want to implement that? 21:07:07 bf derivative except that 21:07:09 -!- copumpki_ has changed nick to copumpkin_. 21:07:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:07:11 someone else implement it 21:07:12 -!- copumpkin_ has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:07:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 21:07:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:08:05 hmm, "bf derivative except that" should be listed somewhere as a method of easily creating vast numbers of stupid esolangs 21:08:14 heh 21:15:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 21:19:35 -!- quintopia has joined. 21:36:13 -!- copumpki_ has joined. 21:36:36 ais523: wiki spam 21:38:10 deleted 21:38:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:25 there's been a lot lately 21:38:26 So my MacBook Air broke. 21:38:45 ran out of air, presumably 21:38:55 I was just about to watch the EOA Homestuck Flash today -- literally just about to -- and it just turned itself off and won't go back on again. 21:38:57 It KNOWS. 21:40:06 Map +-.,><[] to 足引出入右左初終 BAM ESOLANG 21:40:07 :P 21:40:30 It's just a good thing I have 5 computers to hand at all times like a sane person. 21:40:37 elliott: :) 21:41:03 Or was it s/sane/reasonable/ I am Bad at References. 21:41:10 This one has shitty speakers though. 21:42:48 pikhq, is that Chinese or Japanese? 21:42:56 elliott@dinky:~$ cat /etc/debian_version 21:42:56 squeeze/sid 21:42:59 Oh no, why am I on sid. 21:43:12 No wait. 21:43:15 I'm on squeeze. 21:43:17 This thing lies. 21:43:47 Madoka-Kaname: Based on Japanese words, but I'd *imagine* it works just fine for Chinese as well. 21:44:13 Well. 足し算・引き算 might not carry over that well to Chinese? 21:44:43 "Left foot leads into the right beginning of the end" 21:44:58 very poignant 21:45:06 oerjan: It's just "add subtract out in right left begin end". 21:45:36 "And from right to left end of the first leg pull" when done from japanese 21:45:48 -!- copumpki_ has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:45:53 Well, yes, it's not even vaguely valid Japanese. :P 21:45:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 21:45:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:46:06 also poignant 21:50:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:52:00 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:03:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:04:12 [s] cascade completely surpassed my expectations 22:04:28 yeah 22:05:10 I didn't catch how dave and rose got god tier though 22:05:20 Dude shut up. 22:05:20 spoilers or whatever 22:05:29 my bad 22:06:13 Goodnight, all 22:06:20 Bye. 22:06:21 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:12:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:24:41 Patashu: See /msg. 22:28:18 is it just me or is "left foot leads into the right beginning of the end" the smartest thing anyone has ever said ever 22:28:37 Yes. 22:28:42 which one 22:29:01 Both. 22:30:05 Yes. 22:30:12 :o 22:32:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 22:32:37 i have to talk about noetherian modules on thursday and i just realized i'm too stupid to understand these theorems 22:32:59 Isn't Noether all, like, stuff 22:33:02 Which doesn't change. 22:33:08 Pretty simple, really. 22:33:39 it means the module has the ascending chain condition, that is, an ascending chain is finite 22:33:55 (a chain of submodules ordered by inclusion) 22:34:36 Are you sure it's the same Noether? 22:34:38 you can use that as a kind of zorn's lemma to find finite chains with funny properties, since if you just take a maximal chain, it's finite 22:34:56 i have no idea who noether is, i just know what a noetherian module is 22:37:08 it's just that when you have a ring and then you take the ring of polynomials and then that operates on a module and then you take the dual of that module and then you have an operation on the module and get a dual operation on the dual of the module and then write a whole number of sentences starting with "obviously,", i get a bit frustrated 22:37:18 *polynomials over it 22:38:40 well put like that it sounds pretty simple but keeping track of indexing and types gets a bit complicated when you have multiple levels 22:38:47 and paper is for pussies afaik 22:41:33 Phantom_Hoover: yes it's the same noether, the physics stuff was a little different from what she worked the most on, i think 22:41:45 she? 22:41:48 wow 22:42:18 oklopol, it was a joke. 22:42:20 yes, emmy noether is probably the most famous female mathematician in history 22:42:22 I mean oerjan. 22:42:38 Also she was basically a physicist, and we all know what they say about physicists. 22:42:52 i should probably try to keep that in mind 22:42:52 Is it worse than what they say about fisheries research biologists? 22:43:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has changed nick to Testing. 22:43:08 still joking i see 22:43:22 what do they say about physicists 22:43:23 -!- Testing has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 22:43:38 they are retards? 22:43:39 elliott, no, obviously. 22:43:59 oklopol, oh god, I don't know, I was just pretending so that I could be in the in crowd aaaaaaaaaaaa 22:44:26 Phantom_Hoover: Well right, it'd hard to get worse than that. 22:45:11 elliott, the thought scares me. 22:45:19 s/hard/be hard/ 22:45:35 Phantom_Hoover: I'd like to take this opportunity to laugh at fisheries research biologists: hahahahahaha. 22:46:07 You'd *laugh* at that? 22:47:11 At what. 22:47:29 hey i'll have you know fisheries research biologists are a respected profession in norway 22:47:58 i did applied fisheries research when i was little 22:48:05 xD 22:48:27 got some results too but i ate them before i could publish them 22:48:56 `addquote i did applied fisheries research when i was little got some results too but i ate them before i could publish them 22:48:59 695) i did applied fisheries research when i was little got some results too but i ate them before i could publish them 22:49:52 almost certainly lying, but still hilarious 22:50:11 i would never lie about my research 22:50:27 ais523: i am pretty sure he is entirely truthful 22:50:44 oerjan: but if it /isn't/ your research, that doesn't matter 22:50:57 if you claim that you researched tractor tyres but didn't, that's not lying about your research 22:51:04 ais523: Anything happened in BlogNomic yet? 22:51:10 elliott: sixth meta started 22:51:18 people are currently fighting over the theme 22:51:20 I was busy repeatedly watching a thirteen minute Flash. 22:51:24 I guess I'll get on IRC. 22:52:21 ais523: ##electronics is full of knowledgeable unhelpful people. where can i get both? 22:52:44 in ##electronics, apparently 22:52:46 #esoteric is full of unknowledgable unhelpful people 22:52:49 lucky you 22:52:51 so you're in the right place 22:52:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: ragepart). 22:53:02 that's not a ragepart 22:53:05 wat 22:53:05 you're terrible at this, ais 22:53:18 ais are usually terrible at rageparts 22:53:26 lol 22:53:28 until they invent death rays, anyhow 22:54:14 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:54:56 oerjan: are you an expert on noetherian modules 22:55:10 no. 22:55:37 * tswett decides to begin writing Jath. Again. 22:55:37 my question is on notation so you're probably pretty useless then 22:55:52 I think for now, it's simply going to be a loose collection of features. 22:56:48 whats jath 22:57:03 A parser. LLVM. A B+-tree. That's going to be it for now. 22:57:17 ok 22:58:17 i never took the proper ring theory course, although i do think something noetherian was mentioned in the homological algebra one 23:00:40 i'm slowly starting to realize (once again) that i don't actually know any math 23:00:46 nothing at all 23:01:03 i should just become a gardener or a truck 23:01:34 Garden on a truck. 23:01:54 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 23:01:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:02:00 i think you mean trucker, unless you're in for some major body modifications 23:04:14 you know enough to be a math tutor 23:04:24 and then be a gardener on the side 23:04:33 and a fisheries researcher 23:04:36 i'm sure they are smaller modifications than the ones i'd need to do math 23:05:08 "Yeah, nothing seemed to descend into chaos and cannibalism" -- oh, phew. 23:05:40 also i'm getting closer to proving sofic shifts are simplicial complexes and all simplicial complexes can be embedded in any nontrivial mixing sofic shift as a sofic subshift, up to homotopy equivalence, in the besicovitch topology 23:06:10 elliott: how boring 23:07:41 no one does algebraic topology here, so i have no idea if i'm proving something well-known 23:07:57 here as in in turku 23:09:01 besicovitch topology is when you take the limsup of difference densities of n-blocks around the origin as n goes to infinity as the distance 23:12:10 homotopy equivalence is really annoying to show, you first have to find two continuous functions equating them, then prove both the compositions homotopy equivalent to id, so it's four times the work of proving something with just one step like 1 + 1 = 2 23:12:56 why two different ones? 23:13:00 two directions? 23:13:05 well back and forth 23:13:14 yer 23:14:11 if those are just inverses, you have a homeomorphism, and those spaces are so far from homeomorphic that i can't even find a simile 23:14:32 wait 23:14:38 yeah 23:16:08 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 23:16:17 a besicovitch space is not locally very R^n-like, since it's infinitedimensional 23:16:22 *infinite dimensional 23:16:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:17:28 play four in a row on it 23:18:50 i'm actually playing continuous path on it all day long, which is uncountably infinite times cooler. 23:19:07 is that where you have to make a straight path of arbitrary length to win 23:20:36 it's a solitaire. you find paths and then you show they are actually homotopic to other paths and be really happy for some reason. 23:21:45 quintopia: for example, [0,1] and a single point are homotopy equivalent 23:22:03 for instance a mixing sofic shift is contractible, that is, homotopy equivalent to a single point, so all paths are homotopic 23:22:13 synchronicity 23:22:44 contractible spaces _are_ the simplest ones to think of 23:23:10 an empty space is way simpler 23:23:15 amirite 23:23:23 er. 23:23:31 possibly 23:23:38 i didn't say that because contractible spaces are simple, but because i like listing my results 23:24:00 i suppose i proved that because they are simple though 23:24:07 i think you will be hard pressed to find a different non-homeomorphic space it's homotopy equivalent with, though 23:24:19 ? 23:24:28 ...the empty space 23:24:30 oh 23:24:34 right 23:25:09 i have an idea for one, but i'm having a hard time choosing the function to the empty space 23:25:41 you don't say 23:25:42 i came up with the other function in like a second though so i'm sure i'm on the right track 23:25:59 a track paved with good intensions, i'm sure 23:26:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intension i'm trying to find out if that was a pun but i don't get any of this 23:27:04 maybe i'm just too stupid to do anything right now 23:27:15 did i mention all sofic shifts are closed but not all shift spaces are 23:28:12 and also that toeplitz sequences are dense while no countable set can be 23:28:27 (maybe infinite-dimensionality implies the latter?) 23:28:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with_good_intentions 23:28:42 hmm no i don't think so 23:28:58 yes i was wondering about the typo 23:29:16 there was a typo? hm. 23:30:07 it's a bit subtle 23:31:01 wow i never knew those were different words 23:32:53 kind of like the result that a noetherian module has a unique finite characteristic set of prime ideals such that there exists a set of submodules, one for each of those ideals, such that the intersection of them is empty but no intersection not containing all of those is, such that the annihilator of each of those submodules is the associated prime ideal and also all those submodules are primary 23:33:01 they're both spelled intensjon in norwegian 23:34:42 oklopol: no, infinite-dimensional spaces can have countable dense subsets 23:34:55 separable hilbert space, for example 23:34:58 yeah i realized 23:35:15 -!- MDude has joined. 23:38:49 i want to be sleepy :( 23:39:45 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:50 -!- evincar has joined. 23:48:58 In Haskell, is there a more general way to compose functions than (.)? 23:49:21 see Control.Category I guses 23:49:22 guess 23:49:23 Like (a->b->c)->(d->a)->(e->a)->(d->e->c) for replacing two arguments with two functions. 23:49:36 Er, e->b. 23:50:05 For the third argument. 23:50:15 (a->b->c)->(d->a)->(e->b)->(d->e->c) 23:50:56 make yourself a mess of compositions 23:51:19 what name would you give that one? 23:51:40 evincar: http://conal.net/blog/posts/semantic-editor-combinators 23:53:42 monqy: It could be the type resulting from a more general scheme, so I dunno. 23:54:02 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:54:48 @pl \f g h x y -> f (g x) (h y) 23:54:49 ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . (.) 23:55:13 It takes a binary function and composes two unary functions in place of its arguments, so compose2nd (compose1st b u1) u2 ? Or something? 23:55:46 i think ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . (.) is as clear as it gets 23:55:48 @pl \f g h -> curry (uncurry f . (g *** h)) 23:55:49 ((curry .) .) . (. (***)) . (.) . (.) . uncurry 23:55:51 Hrm. 23:55:54 eek 23:55:58 i admit, the "flip" makes it a bit hard to read 23:56:05 I'm trying to implement something like the function composition/application setup I had in Even. 23:56:12 Because I still think that's a good idea. 23:56:17 who is even 23:56:18 whats even 23:56:20 is she hot 23:56:26 Oh, I never mentioned that name here. 23:56:40 It was the message-passing language we had an argument about composition versus application about. 23:56:47 argument? 23:56:54 Everyone was telling me I was wrong. 23:56:58 you were 23:56:59 yeah "argument" 23:57:07 So that kind of argument. 23:57:17 The kind where I say something false and people object. 23:57:24 the best kind 23:57:27 when the i is not me 23:57:28 Indeed. 23:57:30 I typically consider that distinct from proper arguments 23:57:36 but whatever 23:57:45 so how did composition work there? 23:57:57 semantically, I mean 23:58:20 even is such an odd language. 23:58:33 Well, for binary f and unary g and h, [[f [g ?] [h ?]] x y] would yield [f [g x] [h y]] 23:59:09 Where [] groups application and ? is a sort of placeholder. 23:59:33 oh I remember that. you were wrong about it too weren't you 23:59:45 That is, [g ?] x and [g x] are the same, but [h [g ?]] x is [h [g x]]. 23:59:55 ah so you resolved that