< 1318809650 568874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is my fundamental human right to believe in joke detectors, just as it is your right not to have a working joke detector detector < 1318811072 567514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the prime vertical circle have anything to do with solar noon? < 1318811232 515052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found this: http://kirstenmichel.com/ss2.html < 1318812529 233160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese drinking culture frightens me. < 1318812535 908116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1318812536 707363 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :飲み放題. That means "all you can drink". < 1318812540 673591 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a thing. < 1318812796 871884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, american "all you can eat" isn't _that_ much less frightening :P < 1318812823 329775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, so "all you can eat" exists in norway too) < 1318812846 514056 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except "all you can eat" is not the center of an evening's activities. < 1318812855 523846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1318812860 307930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1318813051 60975 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318813701 486265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1318814003 960654 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-137.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318814018 387927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-132.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318814165 552618 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318814203 427909 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1318814377 711679 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1318814429 319102 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318814485 240027 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally have X-Chat on Mac < 1318815773 716434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Channel #esoteric created on Sun Nov 26 01:42:50 2006" // we're nearing the five-year anniversary of a rather-arbitrary date that Freenode thinks #esoteric was created on for some reason. < 1318815853 362888 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-204-150.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318815886 867363 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-137.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318815930 780156 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT : < 1318816123 36789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318816407 452103 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-153-125.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318817134 423853 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1318817660 77955 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318817660 388756 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1318817660 535371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1318817825 33929 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1318818473 249717 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> letters < 1318818474 116620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `letters' < 1318818671 929038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that not the date this channel was created on? < 1318818727 962073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was registered before then, though. < 1318818771 11136 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let letters = ['a'..'z']; t = zip letters ((drop 13 letters) ++ (take 13 letters)); rot13 c = fromMaybe c (lookup c t) in map rot13 "Grego is actually Roger G." < 1318818772 550691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Gertb vf npghnyyl Rbtre G." < 1318818779 272685 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1318818780 886372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1318818785 225740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not capital letters. < 1318818814 296234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookupWithDefault < 1318818815 75370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `lookupWithDefault' < 1318818819 438053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle lookup < 1318818820 96509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude lookup :: Eq a => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1318818820 463635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.HashTable lookup :: HashTable key val -> key -> IO (Maybe val) < 1318818820 610492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap lookup :: Key -> IntMap a -> Maybe a < 1318818837 669337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> [(a,b)] -> Maybe b < 1318818838 153443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.SP spLength :: (Graph gr, Real b) => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> b < 1318818838 429282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array.MArray writeArray :: (MArray a e m, Ix i) => a i e -> i -> e -> m () < 1318818838 575983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.MaxFlow maxFlow :: (DynGraph gr, Num b, Ord b) => gr a b -> Node -> Node -> b < 1318818841 395987 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> [(a,b)] -> b < 1318818841 761883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.SP spLength :: (Graph gr, Real b) => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> b < 1318818842 48319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.BFS lesp :: Graph gr => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> LPath b < 1318818842 195061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.BFS esp :: Graph gr => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> Path < 1318818846 86976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no. < 1318818854 722025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle b -> a -> [(a,b)] -> b < 1318818855 135964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.SP spLength :: (Graph gr, Real b) => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> b < 1318818855 416565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.BFS lesp :: Graph gr => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> LPath b < 1318818855 563214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.BFS esp :: Graph gr => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> Path < 1318818864 836979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no lookup with default?? < 1318818888 980601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle b -> a -> Map a b -> b < 1318818889 168969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot hates me. < 1318818889 357147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Map findWithDefault :: Ord k => a -> k -> Map k a -> a < 1318818889 644173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.SP spLength :: (Graph gr, Real b) => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> b < 1318818889 790792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.BFS lesp :: Graph gr => Node -> Node -> gr a b -> LPath b < 1318818894 679146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1318818931 18359 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-204-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let lower = ['a'..'z'];upper = ['A'..'Z'];f x = zip x ((drop 13 x) ++ (take 13 x));t = f lower ++ f upper;rot13 c = fromMaybe c (lookup c t) in map rot13 "Lawlz." < 1318818932 536434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Ynjym." < 1318819261 798676 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let lower = ['a'..'z']; upper = ['A'..'Z']; f x = zip x ((drop 13 x) ++ (take 13 x)); t = M.fromList (f lower ++ f upper); rot13 c = M.findWithDefault c c t in map rot13 "Gregor is actually Roger G." < 1318819263 355517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Tertbe vf npghnyyl Ebtre T." < 1318819358 7722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at compile time does GHC compute the result of all constants? < 1318819381 997850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that t is just a predefined Map at runtime? < 1318819460 222131 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(repeat 1) is a constant < 1318819640 549376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1318819666 300936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in some cases you could analyze that the function terminates. < 1318819724 403839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you immediately exclude all recursion then you've eliminated a large amount of constant optimization. < 1318819753 596332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ on finite constant lists wouldn't allow optimization. < 1318819999 512161 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1318820377 492873 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if strictness analysis determines that a constant expression can be strictly evaluated < 1318820390 981386 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be safe to go ahead and precompute the result. < 1318820608 452092 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1318820630 532573 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1318822068 206299 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info NICK :\EXPERT_PROGRAMM < 1318822078 674203 :\EXPERT_PROGRAMM!~yours@infocalypse-net.info NICK :Nisstyre < 1318822160 295534 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1318823831 972162 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :schopenhauer < 1318823844 553348 :schopenhauer!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :augur < 1318824265 561637 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318824266 5798 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1318824266 152533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1318824364 242432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI GAIZ < 1318825002 954830 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40389.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cakeprophet; all knows the problem: you need to format an os partition but want to be sure not to loose any data still hanging around somewhere in tons of garbage. can anyone recommend a tool to (pre)analyse the structure of the contente (especially user documents, pics, etc) < 1318825029 838598 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40389.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..of the partition < 1318825937 159041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :analyze in what way? < 1318825972 252607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Ubuntu has something called "disk usage analyzer" the creates a chart of disk usage per directory/file. < 1318825975 880757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they may not be useful for what you < 1318825979 160852 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re wanting to do. < 1318826005 660322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: ^^^ < 1318826056 312415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, if you're searching for important shit. find is a good command line tool for doing such. < 1318826059 548765 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40389.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly thank you < 1318826096 132165 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Baobab < 1318826098 561506 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40389.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will give it a try < 1318826109 181763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-204-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpQ6nfMi80 This is meant to be funny. It is both funny and reminds me of the pain that has been inflicted upon my soul. < 1318827780 836259 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an object X in a category then what is it called when no morphisms exist from X to any other object? And what is it called if the only morphism from X to X is the identity morphism? What is it called if both conditions apply? < 1318828388 518218 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1318829535 557862 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40389.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1318830351 538387 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me that C++11 fixes a lot of problems with C++ < 1318830356 846215 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making the language really terrible and ugly. < 1318831163 338923 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318831681 327028 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d016.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318833040 439693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you know if the \p{...} regex properties require the utf8 flag to be? < 1318833086 348004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+on < 1318833100 273406 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently when I decode ASCII to UTF-8 the UTF-8 flag stays off for backwards compatability. If \p{...} requires utf8 on then that may be why my code isn't working. < 1318833116 429184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait nevermind. < 1318833119 820278 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they should just treat it as UTF-8 regardless of the flag. < 1318833125 289077 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that doesn't matter for ASCII. < 1318833135 562258 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1318833175 928998 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- if the "locale" or "encoding" pragmas are not used and the string is not "utf8", then "[[:xxxxx:]]" (and "\w", etc.) will not match characters 0x80-0xff; whereas "\p{IsXxxxx}" will force the string to "utf8" and can match these characters (as Unicode)." < 1318833186 839036 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you convert from ASCII, there will be no bytes 0x80-0xff in there. < 1318833234 981285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue why the /usr/share/dict datasets are empty after I run my script. < 1318833266 817558 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely have to implement Sclipting... < 1318833297 988340 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe file is giving me the incorrect encodings for them? < 1318833303 912040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...... I have no idea. < 1318833348 350027 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't: know. Incorrect encodings doesn't sound like something that'd lead to empty outputs, though. < 1318833372 544700 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the reason the output is empty is because my regex is always succeeding on these datasets < 1318833382 623703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which regex is that? < 1318833389 14259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/[^\p{Alphabetic}\p{Letter}\p{Dash_Punctuation}\p{Connector_Punctuation}']/; < 1318833396 885116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to skip anything that passes this. < 1318833528 177504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the files in as :raw, then use decode($encoding, $input) < 1318833533 398341 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where $encoding is a command line option. < 1318833538 77683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that defaults to utf8 < 1318833566 583136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked at the files? I don't really know about the other languages, but my /usr/share/dict/finnish has "$\" at the end of 88% of the words. (Though there's still a couple of words that should not match that.) < 1318833585 849759 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why $\ < 1318833718 689132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. It may be an affix marker thing; though the ispell man page doesn't really suggest so. I don't even know which program those files are for. < 1318833751 308995 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well manx for example doesn't have those < 1318833754 720871 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still shows up as empty < 1318833787 729396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318833808 153715 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1318833812 129535 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1318833824 273106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how a minor change to a page can be over 32000 characters < 1318833900 103498 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, I don't know. Are you doing something else differently for the dict stuff? Could you be leaving the newline in there or something? I'm just grasping at straws here, really. Hexdump the strings that match that regex and check what's wrong with them? I'unno. < 1318833958 593337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't actually read hexdumps very well. < 1318833965 962434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should figure them out < 1318833969 434138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you just use weird formats < 1318834156 338465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wide character in print at ./construct_grams.pl line 22, <$f> line 5828977. < 1318834161 427000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got a lot of these in the french dataset < 1318834211 375080 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly shouldn't be related to the lack of the utf8 flag, though: < 1318834213 605971 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e '$x = "foobar"; print "is not utf8\n" unless utf8::is_utf8($x); print "no match\n" unless $x =~ /[^\p{Alphabetic}\p{Letter}\p{Dash_Punctuation}\p{Connector_Punctuation}'\'']/;' < 1318834213 752622 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not utf8 < 1318834213 752792 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no match < 1318834351 112140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as the $\ I guess I'll just make a copy of the files and strip those characters out. < 1318834506 853289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh what's some good hexdump options < 1318834527 842151 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hexdump -C" and "od -tx1z" are reasonable. < 1318834549 779514 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can just print join(" ", map { sprintf "%02x", $_ } unpack("C*", $string)), "\n" from the Perl script. < 1318834574 733429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hexdump is actually simpler in this case. < 1318834661 175259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to you; it's just that it'll all get smooshed into one dump. Anyway, it sounds very weird that the regex just wouldn't work; you are certain that it's because that thing is matching all the words? < 1318834676 533182 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep I put a print after it and nothing happens < 1318834697 943395 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you put a print in front of it to see if you're getting there either?-) < 1318834705 427111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I did that before. < 1318834732 302470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also tested the eng-1M set and many words pass. < 1318834748 196010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tested the other google sets. I assume all the utf-8 ones are fine. < 1318834893 196304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll sprunge an output file soon. < 1318834907 557893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and code would probably help. < 1318834960 783034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DHBZ < 1318834985 14689 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I guess I could have used a smaller dataset. < 1318835074 647236 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1318835076 548307 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think you might get some shell-related munging to your string if you dump them like that. < 1318835090 763982 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318835102 871648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: with echo? < 1318835111 365134 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318835153 404994 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, possibly not. At least it'll barf for any words containing a '. < 1318835189 64087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... yes. < 1318835216 494138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taking much longer than usual < 1318835219 723600 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the hexdumps? < 1318835241 228979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes the perl processes are stuck on pipe_wait < 1318835254 999215 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is in fact refusing each word, that's two new processes for each word. < 1318835257 277453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, three. < 1318835259 741705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, two. < 1318835267 408550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1318835276 606132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shell and the hexdump; the echo is probably a builtin. < 1318835292 64482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1318835305 496493 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is master of efficient perl coding.
< 1318835376 94713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I ran it locally with | head. < 1318835385 228441 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 'finnish'. < 1318835387 503675 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 61 2d 6b 6c 69 6e 69 6b 6b 61 0a 0a |a-klinikka..| < 1318835408 699316 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to point out what I said 25 minutes ago: " CakeProphet: Well, I don't know. Are you doing something else differently for the dict stuff? Could you be leaving the newline in there or something? --" < 1318835411 747641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'll do it your way. < 1318835425 413095 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first 0a is the newline you have in your string, and that's what matching the regex. < 1318835432 210177 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The second 0a is added by echo.) < 1318835444 683454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................... < 1318835445 995502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1318835458 166229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have a \t in it, so it gets the full line. < 1318835465 97775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't have that problem with googledata because -- yes < 1318835476 749120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffwoiejriowehriuhweiufhw4ituhwiuethwef < 1318835506 158367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could split /[\n\t]/ or something < 1318835513 771957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, or chomp it. < 1318835518 207836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes chomp < 1318835524 28091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use it because of the name. < 1318835529 480677 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes very satisfying < 1318835569 458338 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318835644 932418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let's try this again. < 1318835738 719236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the scripts appear to be using memory. < 1318835740 769701 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's good. < 1318835860 230440 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318835911 840909 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that'll teach those RAM chips who's the boss here. < 1318836313 621324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet that worked. < 1318836868 562040 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: okay so if I use a require to import the modules via string < 1318836877 264349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I access variables in their namespace? < 1318836959 924184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if do just drops variables into the current scope then I might use it instead. < 1318837059 123622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I could use a symbolic reference maybe. < 1318837136 416410 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl -e '%t = (1,2); print %{"%::t"};' < 1318837148 315227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '%t = (1,2); print %{"%::t"};' < 1318837159 152944 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318837186 406385 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$t = {1,2}; print ${"$::t"};' < 1318837191 269350 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318837193 897133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1318837196 636146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$t = {1,2}; print ${"$t"};' < 1318837199 12663 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318837436 316953 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318837533 197428 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1318838589 209922 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; Data::Dumper::Terse = 1; print Data::Dumper::Dumper($a, $b)' < 1318838591 492149 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify non-lvalue subroutine call in scalar assignment at -e line 1, near "1;" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318838608 749442 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $Data::Dumper::Terse = 1; print Data::Dumper::Dumper($a, $b)' < 1318838610 963600 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef \ undef < 1318838694 970125 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([$a,$b]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump; < 1318838697 260814 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string < 1318838699 435108 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([$a,$b]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318838701 897693 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef \ undef < 1318838820 717565 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'require' won't ever touch your namespace; you need to use a fully-qualified Package::foo name to reach into it. < 1318838859 24740 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([[$a,$b]], [qw(x*)]; $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318838861 677506 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at -e line 1, near "];" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318838867 724493 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([[$a,$b]], [qw(x*)]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318838870 242818 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[ \ undef, \ undef \ ] < 1318838887 804426 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([$a,$b], [qw(x*)]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318838890 536649 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef \ undef < 1318839004 846556 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([[$a,$b]], [qw(*x)]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318839007 672730 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​( \ undef, \ undef \ ) < 1318839011 210803 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1318839056 526315 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use Data::Dumper; $d = Data::Dumper->new([[$a,$b]], [qw(*_)]); $d->Terse(1); print $d->Dump;' < 1318839061 283010 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​( \ undef, \ undef \ ) < 1318839767 627181 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318839779 370556 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318840025 386956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318840071 293140 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_='this-is-a-test'; s/-./-\u/g;print' < 1318840073 650586 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1318840084 552016 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="this-is-a-test"; s/-./-\u/g; print' < 1318840086 869088 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this-s--est < 1318840109 233048 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="this-is-a-test"; s/-(.)/-\u$1/g; print' < 1318840111 677812 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this-Is-A-Test < 1318840122 953255 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="this-is-a-test"; s/(^|-)(.)/\u$1/g; print' < 1318840125 466658 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :his-s--est < 1318840126 952051 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="this-is-a-test"; s/(^|-)(.)/\u$2/g; print' < 1318840129 541290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThisIsATest < 1318840142 825743 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful. < 1318840188 395686 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="this--is-a-test"; s/(^|-)(.)/\u$2/g; print' < 1318840190 780848 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This-isATest < 1318840211 563866 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's perfectly fine < 1318840245 348550 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1318840273 167072 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '$_="test"; s/(^|-)(.)/\u$2/g; print' < 1318840275 946190 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1318840438 818323 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318840520 731133 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: instead of manually typing option hash tables I decided to do these shenanigans. :) < 1318840551 223235 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : map { my $opt=$_; s/(^|-)(.)/\u$2/g; $opt, handle_opt $_;} @datasets < 1318840611 161760 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no end to my overcomplicated hackery. < 1318840882 30322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318841347 232112 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://sprunge.us/bGCK < 1318841354 459981 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this /should/ work... as far as I can tell. < 1318841374 183707 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't test it yet (need my external) < 1318841410 473536 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the generation script: http://sprunge.us/dZVH < 1318841432 833460 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to like, watch it break on first try as it most likely will. < 1318841600 548165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318841780 864265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318841790 318585 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly revised words.pl : http://sprunge.us/HMXX < 1318842202 125622 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still need to do some error handling.. < 1318842644 550797 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318843401 823554 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'if (my $x = 2) { print $x } print $x' < 1318843404 183690 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1318843425 828032 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'if (my $x = 2) { print $x } else { print $x} print $x' < 1318843428 133566 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1318844281 828007 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :CakeProphet < 1318844900 387140 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/GThA < 1318844955 392865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1318844993 48650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318847189 20815 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: make me a sammich < 1318847189 301007 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov < 1318847208 944794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's anmaster going to do with markov? < 1318847209 379541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1318847209 526286 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:, so i'd make stuff up to. why, this is for you guys are a lot of the design, prisoners and slaves that have sucked. rephrase: " i tried todo a _" is 0 ( and both variables hold the same < 1318847262 25077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out where fungot got "design, prisoners and slaves" from
< 1318847262 291764 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is. absorb it on my door, which was just perceptibly fnord and this yields nothing itself; it keeps being removed, the queen. i see no sense < 1318847354 393822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "ymor's ravens were notoriously loyal to their design, prisoners and slaves that have sucked blood from larger animals." < 1318847369 625134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know < 1318847378 500912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan You got two minutes; what are you complaining about. < 1318847378 647578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original sentence doesn't make all that much more sense than the fungot version < 1318847378 794301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1318847378 940920 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube ( some youtube comments) http://news.com.com/ fnord/ fnord and it is eta. f) the associate director of personnel may declare an interested proposal, not only to goods and service sectors. if we take a very close relationship, but the parliament has possessed him, yet he talkes well," he said, taking it out < 1318847390 605155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, is that a fungot self-quote? < 1318847390 832296 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to, uhhh....... uncool it online. it was an unmanned flight--thanks for doing your homework. seriously, read description :) ( maybe i suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english as u suck at english < 1318847397 187459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1318847397 334314 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1318847413 504679 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's built of everything it has said. < 1318847413 692951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of cycles in this mode. < 1318847430 767103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, you used fungot as a source for itself < 1318847430 913798 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just to help an fnord archive) < 1318847441 960667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd explain why the source material doesn't make much more sense than the output < 1318847459 143177 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "ymor's ravens" comment was from the 'nethack' style, obvs. < 1318847469 315695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not surprising < 1318847779 933540 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The "anmaster no not markov" loop comes from elliott using ^echo to talk to an ignoring Vorpal, also unsurprisingly. < 1318847800 992353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1318847823 767690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times did he say that? < 1318847851 583263 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just once, but with the sort of short context, it's enough. Because you know about ^echo. < 1318847857 379849 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Do I hear an echo? < 1318847857 526653 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I hear an echo? Do I hear an echo? < 1318847867 186232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1318847886 11671 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo, the loopmaker. < 1318848460 784864 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oisosossgoisstoirtrreriteieoiey < 1318848460 948434 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: something like scheme48 ( upon the general position is a part of these amendments, i can only thank the president-in-office, you did hear me say that we have had in getting information with regard to monetary policy, a factor is < 1318848481 305470 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: suck my dick eh heh heh heh heh huhu huhuhuhuhhuhhuhhuh < 1318848481 452182 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i know i didn't know that you've already asked, but then i need to enter " qemu" to edit is the ordinary ( for call/ cc))) hangs < 1318848525 766110 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a dataset based on everything it sees < 1318848528 114884 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :including PMs < 1318848549 77719 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't log everything it sees, sadly. < 1318848558 675488 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then I could flood it with vulgar insults. < 1318848566 263070 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow, flood? that's a weird word. < 1318848572 555230 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have I noticed that. < 1318848574 34200 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flood. < 1318848583 875465 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not noticed < 1318848744 63911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLOOD. < 1318849147 571206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318849150 120301 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :607) I think Perl is a programming language too. [...] < 1318849160 612458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318849162 665391 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :253) Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors" < 1318849170 181583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318849172 543635 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :100) Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename. < 1318849181 157852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318849183 536083 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :472) Phantom_Hoover: nope, I removed . from the current directory < 1318849193 775893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how did I do that? < 1318849197 550371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm interested in context < 1318849214 268835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log removed \. from the current directory < 1318849224 398634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs removed \. from the current directory < 1318849227 123080 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found < 1318849232 481265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1318849233 241480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07, surprisingly recent. < 1318849238 230460 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-06.txt:11:51:46: 482) Phantom_Hoover: nope, I removed . from the current directory < 1318849241 762690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, -06 < 1318849298 535075 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's immediately followed by "umm, from the path". < 1318849303 391784 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it less interesting. < 1318849334 665808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: can you get a tie that's a transparent plastic thing filled with multicoloured glow in the dark liquid < 1318849349 218443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, just a thinko < 1318849529 706517 :nooga!~nooga@178-37-171-236.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318849622 790599 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1318850151 385751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should logread more often < 1318850428 678390 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1318850798 513660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1318850868 544105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: boo! < 1318850878 71641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1318850878 458679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1318850923 197476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: > 2 + 2 < 1318850934 385577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @run 2 + 2 < 1318850935 191764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1318851386 670808 :nooga!~nooga@178-37-171-236.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318851446 881276 :nooga!~nooga@178-37-171-236.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318851492 218258 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318851518 637794 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1318851542 713485 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: What is this? You keep answering every "> foo" even when it's just paste from a quoted email or something, but not when someone directly addresses you? < 1318851565 270349 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Teach some sense to your fellow bot, would you? < 1318851565 417928 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i know i didn't know that you've already asked, but then i need to enter and it closes. :( i can pay, and those that the c-intercal, except that the thing about genocide is < 1318851806 940191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, genocide! < 1318851807 92711 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is. absorb it on my door, which was just perceptibly fnord and this yields nothing itself; it keeps being removed, the queen is a vain. yes is ticked). we'll know that's our memory...... calling...... that thing's not human... < 1318852039 990462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I wonder if that sword alone can stop. < 1318852040 177080 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it's not. it's more complex than that. read the code.) good stuff ( and burning, and no clear account. in that second one is horizontally displaced by 1 pixel is sacred. just me, or i: yet, you rogue! < 1318852059 958167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, all hail horizontal displacement by one pixel! < 1318852060 161416 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube comments). < 1318852098 392661 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl use Scalar::Util qw/dualvar/; my $dv = dualvar 42, 'sneaky'; printf "%d, %s\n", $dv, $dv; < 1318852101 248627 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :42, sneaky < 1318852101 998356 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl <3 < 1318852199 218413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Contextual::Return takes it rather further still.) < 1318852250 458712 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318852743 916123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know a CSS hack that's specific to Windows, as opposed to a particular browser? < 1318852750 294218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, Chrome and IE on Windows, specifically < 1318852976 272948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds more like something people would do with scripts. < 1318853056 898318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, my problem is that Windows Chrome isn't rendering Unicode correctly, because it's picking an inappropriate font < 1318853083 212696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want to just arbitrarily override a list of fonts for those browsers that do Unicode properly < 1318853103 656513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm just serving a single (computer-generated) HTML file, and don't particularly want to put scripts on it for no good reason < 1318853169 215186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshots of WP pages can't be put on Commons. < 1318853226 665578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1318853241 34874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the WP logo is copyrighted < 1318853244 998984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK if you crop out the logo < 1318853260 950975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE-specific CSS hacks are (probably) dime a dozen, but detecting between Windows Chrome and Somethingelse Chrome with pure CSS might be a bit much to ask. A five-line script to detect the situation and splunk a "fontfix" class onto the body + references to that in the CSS could be easier. But I'm no web developer. < 1318853534 935936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1318853544 747786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, IE-specific CSS hacks have pretty much disappeared since IE8 < 1318853551 878815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier versions are pretty easy to hack for < 1318853572 285320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IE deliberately misparses certain specifically-structured comments, which works on any version as it's an intended feature < 1318853775 277932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculous idea: Chrome probably recognises embedded CSS fonts < 1318853790 825909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could just dump a Unicode font into the page source, probably via reference < 1318853801 980876 :nooga!~nooga@178-37-171-236.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318853913 52654 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d016.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1318854060 431649 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you would (presumably) need to explicitly use that embedded font, and you didn't want to override fonts. < 1318854061 19067 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1318854086 469784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318854164 46336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a related but unrelated subject: is there a sensible algorithm to, given a list of examples, produces a wildmat pattern that matches all those examples (and preferably excludes as much else as possible) < 1318854316 660870 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a related but unrelated answer: Emacs comes with a "regexp-opt" function which takes a list of strings and triest to generate a small regular expression which matches that list and nothing else. It is very simplistic, though. < 1318854366 413362 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is clever enough, apparently, to produce (?:optim(?:al|i(?:[sz]e))), given the list {optimal, optimise, optimize}. < 1318854392 591533 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last group doesn't seem so useful in there. < 1318854849 590652 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-253-175.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318854857 215746 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-204-150.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318854872 527450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1318854873 594909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ?: isn't even Emacs regex syntax < 1318854874 594646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's busy optimizing a syntax other than its own < 1318854919 89497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly it is in Emacs23. < 1318854936 57578 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going by http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RegexpOpt here, not an expert again. < 1318854945 239241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs finally modernised its regexen? good to hear it < 1318854946 572368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" (regexp-opt '("alex" "albert" "alois" "bummer")) < 1318854946 719153 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :results in < 1318854946 719332 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : "al\\(bert\\|ex\\|ois\\)\\|bummer" < 1318854946 719456 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or < 1318854946 719563 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\\(?:al\\(?:bert\\|ex\\|ois\\)\\|bummer\\)" < 1318854947 65058 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Emacs 23)." < 1318854965 938668 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped the \\s from the example for legibility reasons. < 1318855046 2799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, \(?: is horrendous syntax < 1318855070 581724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's easier to quote parens that are meant to match parens, then parens that are part of regex syntax < 1318855086 236114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people call Perl unreadable, but it's really doing better than its competitors on that (that didn't just outright copy it) < 1318855164 700201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hysterical raisins there, probably. POSIX BREs also require \( ... \| ... \) for grouping. < 1318855205 654832 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a55.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318856169 432942 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318856230 518319 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318856437 76662 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weirdest reason for a student to leave my course ever (well, so far at least): "I'm actually a second year" < 1318856440 738972 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a first year course) < 1318856478 108147 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318856486 828544 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around here, those things are just very vague recommendations. Even prerequisites are rarely checked very strictly. < 1318856534 202213 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more important around here because it matters for mark calculation < 1318856589 566950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, our courses are usually part of a particular "module", but you can generally build those up in arbitrary order. < 1318856992 782338 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318857519 926921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Earth's tidal oscillations introduce dissipation at an average rate of about 3.75 terawatt." These energy-conscious days, shouldn't we be trying to cut that down a bit? < 1318857723 62843 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you reverse the direction of the Earth spinning? < 1318857777 465090 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I strongly suspect time would not start to run backwards. < 1318857788 242891 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1318857825 559473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that. < 1318857833 709754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the superman movie shows clear evidence of that < 1318857840 614357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the first < 1318857927 872244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right, he spins the globe and then nothing happens. Quite an anticlimactic moment. < 1318857946 469902 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318857974 619062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1318857976 394551 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, didn't he just fly around backwards or something? < 1318857981 861050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION missed a "not" up there
< 1318858004 940701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it's still admissible as evidence. < 1318858026 720712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but it looked like it made the earth turn backwards < 1318858041 881562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly some badass frame dragging involved < 1318858187 547200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, the JET fusion reactor... sorry, "fusion device", has two 775-ton flywheels spinning at 225 rpm. That's quite a lot of spinning. < 1318858428 350448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha doesn't do moments of inertia. < 1318858430 650448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this crap. < 1318858619 417103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia < 1318858700 424145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably m*r^2/2 < 1318858728 515409 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each flywheel has a radius of 4.5 metres. < 1318858780 130351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this assumes uniform thickness, i think < 1318858793 231264 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, it is not. < 1318858809 545673 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but the next sentence gives the moment of inertia. :) < 1318858814 227181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- weighs 775 tons (!), much of which is concentrated on the rim to form a large flywheel. For experts – the total moment of inertia is 13.5 million kg.m2 per flywheel!" < 1318858999 82825 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving the value to W|A works in the sense that it is interpreted as moment of inertia, but it doesn't give all those funny "comparisons" values, like it does for angular velocity and such things. < 1318859033 997397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 1/2 * 13500000 kg m^2 * (225 / min)^2 -> Joule < 1318859044 977456 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown symbol "Joule" \ Warning: undefined symbol "Joule". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 94921875 m^2 s^-2 kg (energy) -> Joule (undefined symbol) < 1318859052 326522 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the angular velocity of the JET flywheel is 0.75 times the angular velocity of a 3.5-inch floppy disk. < 1318859054 262131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 1/2 * 13500000 kg m^2 * (225 / min)^2 -> J < 1318859063 817265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :94921875 < 1318859083 567352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 1/2 * 13500000 kg m^2 * (225 / min)^2 -> kWh < 1318859091 506290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3375/128 (exactly 26.3671875) < 1318859239 250822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1318859244 612698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 1/2 * 13500000 kg m^2 * (225 / min)^2 -> joule < 1318859252 379367 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :94921875 < 1318859262 909319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just a capitalization error < 1318859351 839844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's 9.5 MJ of spinning. < 1318859357 835500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Today's trivia: the "Subaru equivalent" of LHC beam at top energy is 1712 km/h. (I.e. same amount of kinetic energy in a 3200 kg of mass moving at that speed.) < 1318859374 550556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: itym 95 < 1318859383 998623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP OERJAN < 1318859442 214203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so wait, if you crashed a Subaru that fast it would turn into Higgs bosons? < 1318859461 474607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you crashed it into a very tiny area < 1318859588 350043 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 microns across at the collision point. < 1318859593 724372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be a very small car. < 1318859725 867393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1318859733 900957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A barn is the best unit of area. < 1318859929 621708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the barn-megaparsec is the best unit of volume, mainly because the stupefying scales involved cancel out to be slightly smaller than a teaspoon. < 1318859989 973059 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1318860752 891023 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't barn-gigaparsec be a nicer size? < 1318861270 155662 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1318861491 246618 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-204.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :The barn-gigaparsec describes the longuest spaghetti < 1318862547 510554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, a gigaparsec is a nearly-useless unit, considering that the observable universe is about ten of them across. < 1318862714 135741 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318862719 399300 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One barn-gigaparsec is 0.6 times the volume of blood in a typical human. (Thanks, W|A.) < 1318863041 699339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1318863128 752177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1318863133 609524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1318863822 24882 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could write it as kilobarn-megaparsec instead < 1318863827 773546 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why be redundant on prefixes? < 1318863841 809093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh dear < 1318863842 183648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1318864624 65279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:58:48: I also guess it's pointless to mention that FBBI was updated too? ;-) < 1318864624 253002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:59:48: Somebody announced that here when it happened < 1318864625 547803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Me < 1318864639 753063 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed that but couldn't be bothered to check < 1318864767 296535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:12: I found this: http://kirstenmichel.com/ss2.html < 1318864767 443085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HOW HIGH AM I?" did not have the expected answer. < 1318864791 21411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:21:25: I finally have X-Chat on Mac < 1318864792 593668 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1318864804 546932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You had that before, but all X-Chat ports suck massively < 1318864816 718374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or are you using it through X11 or something ridiculous like that < 1318864833 877316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:42:38: so at compile time does GHC compute the result of all constants? < 1318864834 43670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:43:01: so that t is just a predefined Map at runtime? < 1318864840 286401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, GHC has solved the halting problem. < 1318864867 938278 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that involves the halting problem < 1318864890 701691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "All constants" < 1318864918 434867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably computing all constants involves computing every definition that halts, because that's the only reasonable definition of "constant" in context < 1318864922 79579 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constants being numerical and string literals and pure functions that work on them < 1318864935 531707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:43:01: so that t is just a predefined Map at runtime? < 1318864937 22297 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does FBBI pass Mycology yet? < 1318864938 115460 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And character literals and whatnot < 1318864952 430345 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you see my Prolog map, btw? it feels so wrong writing that in Prolog < 1318864953 76688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: f x = f x < 1318864954 562638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pure function < 1318864956 708697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes < 1318864967 4369 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog doesn't even have first-class functions! < 1318864971 932574 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Compile time <> < 1318864984 858372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay, so CakeProphet wants GHC to be an interpreter? < 1318864986 33685 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or infinite compile time, whatever < 1318865008 837861 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Interpret the stuff that looks like it's constant, at compile time < 1318865024 521371 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :To whatever degree possible < 1318865034 873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nobody seriously wants that < 1318865036 709851 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you encounter unsafePerformIO# then abort, and such < 1318865037 869698 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 QUIT :Quit: going back to the non-underscore version < 1318865053 5260 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sometimes wanted it at least for certain definitions < 1318865061 733078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So, sure, what you're saying is possible but I don't see why you think CakeProphet meant that at all :P < 1318865082 67738 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just what it sounded like :-P < 1318865093 341780 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :First thing that came to mind from "compute the result of all constants" < 1318865177 829727 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: New version appears to hit many BADs but gets through < 1318865189 320077 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 9 of them < 1318865192 819919 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, 8 < 1318865218 524187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I mentioned my map in Prolog to a Prolog teacher who happened to be passing by < 1318865224 746660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he suggested I try to do lambda calculus in it < 1318865278 534941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll just invent Lambda Prolog or Mercury or whatever but worse :P < 1318865340 407695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but it'll be programming for fun < 1318865344 722498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than for practical use < 1318865351 548541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't matter if it's worse than existing impls < 1318865713 920850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:14: Gregor: can you get a tie that's a transparent plastic thing filled with multicoloured glow in the dark liquid < 1318865716 890031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I STILL WANT THIS < 1318865723 661834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that sentence uh < 1318865725 587401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make much sense < 1318865733 769789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, it would be great < 1318865755 663949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glow in the dark liquid already exists, but using multiple colours without it mixing would be hard < 1318865809 981842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59:03: anyone here know a CSS hack that's specific to Windows, as opposed to a particular browser? < 1318865810 128715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59:10: failing that, Chrome and IE on Windows, specifically < 1318865810 128899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:56: Sounds more like something people would do with scripts. < 1318865810 129068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:16: so, my problem is that Windows Chrome isn't rendering Unicode correctly, because it's picking an inappropriate font < 1318865810 461557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:43: and I don't want to just arbitrarily override a list of fonts for those browsers that do Unicode properly < 1318865813 452070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:05:03: and I'm just serving a single (computer-generated) HTML file, and don't particularly want to put scripts on it for no good reason < 1318865818 119080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you really Shouldn't Do That :P < 1318865827 975288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS sniffing is even worse than browser sniffing, probably < 1318865834 585474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1318865837 543159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Arial Unicode MS is what most people specify for full Unicode support on Windows, IIRC < 1318865840 47900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the page is correct, and the browsers are wrong < 1318865842 778911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it comes with the OS < 1318865846 736071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, so you're already doing hacks < 1318865848 250169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my boss is complaining about it < 1318865851 408611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you might as well override the fonts < 1318865855 722028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lesser hack than OS sniffing < 1318865875 945645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this computer doesn't even have Arial Unicode MS installed, so it wouldn't be able to display the font suggested! < 1318865878 942526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:15: ridiculous idea: Chrome probably recognises embedded CSS fonts < 1318865879 106026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:30: so I could just dump a Unicode font into the page source, probably via reference < 1318865883 950322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, you could just use @font-face < 1318865896 279667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would require the font to exist on the target computer < 1318865907 524050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, if your irc font has no @ character < 1318865911 832229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1318865915 408101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, that's what I was suggesting < 1318865920 922201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To use web fonts, each form of the font family must be declared using the @font-face rule; for example, to use both regular and italic forms of Jos Buivenga’s Delicious font, you would put the following in your stylesheet: < 1318865921 86182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@font-face { font-family: Delicious; src: url('Delicious-Roman.otf'); } @font-face { font-family: Delicious; font-weight: bold; src: url('Delicious-Bold.otf'); } < 1318865921 232894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then call it using font-family: < 1318865921 233062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h3 { font-family: Delicious, sans-serif; }" < 1318865921 379508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1318866035 322125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:50:42: fizzie, so wait, if you crashed a Subaru that fast it would turn into Higgs bosons? < 1318866038 694447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. But only a Subaru. < 1318866041 769599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot, what's anmaster going to do with markov? <-- yeah, what style was that? < 1318866041 916323 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1318866053 338915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1318866053 485615 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1318866064 215157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1318866064 399313 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ( c) a player who makes further play impossible by eir actions or lack thereof, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good morning, or typically good m < 1318866066 526380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1318866075 575778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was fungot style < 1318866075 722764 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to, uhhh.... w.t.f lol ...out of time! < 1318866080 215966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot < 1318866080 415347 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) < 1318866083 555284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1318866084 796169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...out of time!" :D < 1318866088 264043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:42:27: ais523_, a gigaparsec is a nearly-useless unit, considering that the observable universe is about ten of them across. < 1318866091 898131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds good to me. < 1318866128 397573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rfk86 page has an Embedded OpenType version of the font in addition to the raw TTF (it was written pre-WOFF, I think), so in theory it should work also on IE 4+ (whereas only IE 9+ does TTF/WOFF); sadly, I don't think anyone has ever tested it with IE, so it might not work. < 1318866137 421538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: attoparsec is also a nice unit btw < 1318866152 827200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec < 1318866158 365519 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :W|A says approximately 29 across < 1318866168 166945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh for a package name, okay. < 1318866173 900134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 10 ~ 29 < 1318866175 551065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I said that? < 1318866186 193188 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For large values of 10 < 1318866188 126613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I extrapolated from the context of the link < 1318866199 194081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway iirc an attoparsec is slightly more than 3 cm < 1318866213 632578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or small values of 29 < 1318866218 506660 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forsooth < 1318866271 119313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or middling values of both < 1318866284 393416 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, middling won't cut it < 1318866393 791920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, they could meet in the middle < 1318866399 754826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say if ten was twenty and twenty-nine was twenty too < 1318866427 405556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are still a large value of ten and a small value of 29 respectively < 1318866460 647308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It seems weird to call that "both", since the changes to both numbers are much less drastic than would be required otherwise < 1318866470 495670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Both" seems to imply strictly more effort to me < 1318866487 107616 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said "both" < 1318866512 603161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Those are still a large value of ten and a small value of 29 respectively < 1318866513 831479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fine :P < 1318868037 426702 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318868193 972266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1318868260 66536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo < 1318868265 278337 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wind's getting pretty nasty < 1318868270 218723 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to close a window < 1318868370 137552 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you're here, wiki spam < 1318868891 795540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318869242 852171 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be tricky? < 1318869247 480911 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing a quine in Piet < 1318869378 510467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mamememo.blogspot.com/2009/10/piet-quine.html < 1318869423 421976 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy < 1318869493 787815 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be linked on the wiki < 1318869649 49126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318869657 268907 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dismal outside < 1318869668 383941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Nice weather we're having < 1318869670 348244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap < 1318869857 564847 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd wasn't complaining about the weather. < 1318869861 851976 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was just pointing out that it's England. < 1318869881 868057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor "Literally lives in America" Gregor < 1318869898 899038 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how my fore and surname are both "Gregor" < 1318869924 145874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "That's my gimmick" elliott < 1318869941 520458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My surname is to awesome to be a duplicate of my first name < 1318869947 466262 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a doctorate to go with it < 1318869975 503797 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd "Ngevd" Ngevd < 1318869988 14741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr Ngevd < 1318870107 701709 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE88D59.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318870140 531859 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lasagne time! < 1318870145 144233 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318870327 846520 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You quoted me before; what do you know of prime vertical? < 1318870753 909282 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318870770 694847 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318871191 677024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318871196 144704 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1318871389 155342 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318871402 863643 :CakeProphet!~eris@h44.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1318871547 29172 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318872027 919136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318872036 247802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1318872268 303925 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318872307 978981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1318872315 235223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1318872333 355356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you know how the tzdata guy was sued? < 1318872339 972396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN decided to continue maintaining the project < 1318872345 811495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1318872347 925066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have been surprised if it was Red Hat or someone < 1318872349 295244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ICANN? < 1318872351 120527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1318872364 963958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're, like, names. < 1318872368 151713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For timezones. < 1318872419 413075 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-204.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318872554 96272 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-154-148.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1318872719 403880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sued for timezones? < 1318872737 998111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, the authors of an atlas claimed copyright infringement IIRC < 1318872753 979905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people think the suit doesn't make much sense, but the tzdata person can't afford to defend against it < 1318872771 286355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318872772 786481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not the authors < 1318872783 192293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just the copyright trolls that bought out the previous publisher < 1318872784 990908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, some people who claim to own copyright on the atlas for no obvious reaosn < 1318872797 118346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they bought the company that owned the rights < 1318872798 766361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be a fairly good reason < 1318872804 138241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as far as the current law goes < 1318872845 877051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently the copyright's actually registered to someone else < 1318872850 562785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, not obviously the same person < 1318872864 804765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on comments I've read, which might be incorrect < 1318872869 261426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me that the definition of planet has changed again, or something like that, to make Pluto is now considered a planet, again. Is that correct? < 1318872871 695797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely remembers that the UK has stupidly strict libel laws
< 1318872876 679248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1318872883 270335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to zzo38) < 1318872900 907678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1318872903 916205 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they heard it on the radio. < 1318872905 63064 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceedingly < 1318872936 164994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they probably heard that thing about i-forget-the-name actually probably being as big as pluto < 1318872977 502149 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as far as I know the definition of a planet depends on the orbit. < 1318873002 154402 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whether it's cleared it's orbit path or something < 1318873019 276581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like that. < 1318873062 757079 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, OpenIndiana has files in .zlib format. I don't think Debian even has a decompressor for raw zlib data. < 1318873082 874962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does, zlib :-) < 1318873088 313531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: are you sure it's not just gz or something? < 1318873091 976071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what is OpenIndiana? < 1318873111 413613 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope. It's named .zlib, and file reports "data". I think it's reasonable to assume it's raw zlib. < 1318873117 622335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fork of OpenSolaris. < 1318873120 410814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318873126 696541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Better question, why are you... < 1318873130 986234 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Giggles? < 1318873138 415144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you're into that, I guess. < 1318873149 60109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :solaris is so weird < 1318873152 504184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really weird < 1318873166 580081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ever used it once < 1318873174 453384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should try it out in an vm maybe < 1318873188 274799 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: qpdf should provide zlib-flate < 1318873196 998892 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lolwut < 1318873215 888363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: strange package to do that < 1318873220 235776 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I installing a PDF viewer (or something thereabout) to get a zlib extractor? < 1318873223 757910 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : The zlib-flate program is part of the qpdf package. < 1318873227 29008 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : The zlib-flate program standard from input and writes to standard out‐ < 1318873230 620704 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : put either compressing or compressing its input using raw zlib compres‐ < 1318873234 61197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : sion. This program is provided primarily as a debugging tool. It can < 1318873236 564712 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : be used to uncompress or compress raw PDF streams. < 1318873239 513908 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz. < 1318873240 983761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The zlib-flate program standard from input" < 1318873241 767679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1318873248 775272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not even proper English < 1318873282 67341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a quick search shows that TAA sold something to Astrolabe, but it's unclear as to whether it was the copyright to some timezones or not < 1318873283 279544 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fragment alone could be proper English if not for the remainder of the sentence. < 1318873291 197510 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318873313 575623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't copyright timezones < 1318873318 54596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copyright books, though < 1318873319 271162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: copyright to time zones? < 1318873323 83931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yes < 1318873323 613797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes zero sense < 1318873327 40420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only copyright the formatting of them, if they present time zone data < 1318873329 343127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder the whole thing's so confusing < 1318873333 682904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: someone was sued over it < 1318873339 678897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh < 1318873340 700763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stopped maintaining the time zones as a result < 1318873353 246353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ICANN declared themselves in charge of it and started maintaining it themselves < 1318873376 17736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's why the tz database died < 1318873384 438789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did? Didn't notice < 1318873389 447841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the tzdata package? < 1318873395 758056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1318873396 938881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite nice of ICANN. They won't be put down easily. < 1318873402 513238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :flate: inflate: data: incorrect header check >_< < 1318873409 674978 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this .zlib file isn't even zlib. Or something. < 1318873417 539085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: could be zlib with the header stripped < 1318873428 454602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with a custom header < 1318873430 91157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :".zlib" is a pretty descriptive extension < 1318873435 625950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a nonstandard one < 1318873437 409825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1318873444 16347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a dynamically loadable format < 1318873449 950780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about zfs library? < 1318873454 993783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a lot of sense) < 1318873464 538254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well if they have z-file system why not have z-libraries < 1318873500 546193 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION proceeds to actually install OpenIndiana in VirtualBox because it's easier than trying to extract this nonsense.
< 1318873543 105281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What are you actually doing. < 1318873548 799417 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: STUPID STUFF < 1318873557 686334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Suspicious eye. < 1318873559 2311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1318873560 581610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing. < 1318873583 551453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you use a fork of an oracle product inside a virtual machine that is an oracle product? < 1318873596 301703 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently. < 1318873603 409880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A fork of a dead project :P < 1318873606 403620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes < 1318873610 658104 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm using Solaris+gelfload as a target to build up a shims library which I will hopefully be able to contribute to maloader. I'm using Solaris for laffs. < 1318873612 52203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but there is some irony in this. < 1318873628 8781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: shims? < 1318873633 153220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maloader? < 1318873646 747791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: maloader? < 1318873661 972030 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/shinh/maloader < 1318873674 215608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yaaay shinh < 1318873676 653807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1318873699 804265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE LOVES SHINH < 1318873720 111890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Mach-O loader won't actually let you run OS X executables, because of libraries. < 1318873745 465492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873747 904064 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432) I think I managed something like a one-expression increment that was only a few hundred characters long < 1318873755 506079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sounds like me < 1318873757 553773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott: I'm using Solaris+gelfload as a target to build up a shims library which I will hopefully be able to contribute to maloader. I'm using Solaris for laffs. < 1318873758 598859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, like INTERCAL < 1318873759 368170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873759 859745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873760 367284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873760 847800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873761 177560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873765 126228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massacre time. < 1318873766 79549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotestripe! < 1318873772 866465 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :51) oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. < 1318873774 185100 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :697) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov < 1318873775 846486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with 432's addition, anyway < 1318873776 819015 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hence "shims". And incidentally, it does load a non-insignificant number of console binaries, including GCC and friends. < 1318873787 627086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was two, HackEgo. < 1318873789 770053 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :322) However is probably better to have both queen/king and government in case one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them < 1318873790 100690 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :436) half the time the time travel model is one where a consistent universe essentially seems impossible if it supports any nontrivial agent-like behavior (because certainly one agent will want to destroy it using a retarded paradox), the other half seems to actually assume an implicit extra time axis and moving in < 1318873790 432568 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :342) elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet < 1318873798 103600 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Simply by redirecting all the standard C functions to the host's libc verbatim) < 1318873813 414986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, which of those do you think is the worst? < 1318873819 158825 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Which is how gelfload works too) < 1318873827 782357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 697 < 1318873839 956897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fungot quotes are not eligible for deletion < 1318873840 190831 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:, so i'd make stuff up to. why, this is for you guys are a lot, but played so bad and missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. in case you missed that: ( :::ass. < 1318873843 288625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well yeah < 1318873844 110601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 436 is truncated, although potentially interesting < 1318873853 794117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote 436 | paste < 1318873853 941844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :322's probably the worst non-fungot one there < 1318873853 942067 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins were in truth, and everything in readiness for fnord. under these to tristan d'acunha, a volcanic origin, a high, and was fnord him with his umbrella. " who can have patience to acquire it. just fnord" brutha. " do you know much about gods, i am no fighter: < 1318873856 429907 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23600 < 1318873868 187577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's typical of zzo38, but nothing massively special < 1318873874 62457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 436 is boring and cut off < 1318873875 542590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 436 < 1318873877 681743 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1318873881 7887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the value of #defines and so on will differ between systems < 1318873888 111030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do another one since that was a missed opportunity to delete something crap < 1318873889 93868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873889 758156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873890 93437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873890 413266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873890 746288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318873897 55873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my browser doesn't know how to open 23600 files < 1318873901 949609 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hence "shims" < 1318873903 123095 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :578) I MIGHT BECOME GHOST < 1318873904 775495 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :267) oerjan: also actually A(4, 4) is larger than any other integer, i learned this the other day when i was reading about this algo, it had complexity O(n a^-1(n)) = O(n a^-1(4)) < 1318873904 922110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah < 1318873905 926849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not the extension, it's Gregor's server < 1318873917 678020 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :152) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. < 1318873917 841615 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :319) Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want. < 1318873917 988469 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :94) I cannot eat meat that isn't flat. < 1318873928 346010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's both; it doesn't know the type because the server didn't tell it, so it tried to guess from the extension < 1318873935 304670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 95 < 1318873937 609693 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :95) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. < 1318873944 384665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 124 < 1318873945 760366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :94 doesn't look all that interesting < 1318873946 541182 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :124) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. < 1318873954 414396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 95 is massively out of context by now < 1318873955 4683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, same person by coincidence < 1318873958 391436 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: And I don't know why the server didn't tell it, so for right now you just have to live with it :P < 1318873959 465181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make it better or worse? < 1318873961 683797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it referred to 94 < 1318873965 979156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll leave 95 < 1318873970 414377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 94 < 1318873972 716717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1318873985 261534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the now-deleted 436 doesn't seem particularly quotable < 1318873995 165235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like xkcd; it's vaguely thought-provoking and sometimes worth reading, but not funny < 1318874002 231912 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 124 < 1318874004 516629 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :124) if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect ^ I learned that trick from atheists < 1318874007 481142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd was better when it /was/ funny :P < 1318874026 506379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was funny once? < 1318874048 699509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the one about the doorbell funny, actually < 1318874063 166367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly only because it claimed to be a true story and I can believe that < 1318874073 559666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is hit and miss < 1318874078 427588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, let's do another round, we don't exactly have a shortage of quotes: < 1318874080 735763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318874081 232796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318874081 560087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318874081 721927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318874082 49655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1318874082 268965 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly miss < 1318874092 687951 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12) :d <(I can lick my nose!) < 1318874101 61040 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally enjoyed the one with the arrow and the boomerang < 1318874110 284921 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :279) who's walter bright and why is he so bright locks: he's to D what I'm to ooc locks: guilty < 1318874110 614374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :662) But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." < 1318874110 760868 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :466) I go to clean up the shrapnel from a teabag and you're discussing the definition of god out of nowhere. < 1318874111 597163 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :555) You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug? < 1318874122 154257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 12 < 1318874124 625475 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1318874127 694176 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318874133 201913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to end up deleting every single Sine quote, aren't I :P < 1318874134 688034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1318874137 172993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14273 < 1318874163 839811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, we'll dip below seven hundred soon. < 1318874192 178995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Sine quotes mostly aren't all that good < 1318874197 977055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My joke simpler HackEgo transaction system actually seems just as good as the original one, and about ten thousand times simpler to implement... < 1318874214 955568 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THEN DO IT < 1318874222 207631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DO YOU EVEN REMEMBER WHAT THAT ONE WAS < 1318874230 955733 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1318874234 258546 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you believe the universe is 3D, the burden of proof is on you to build an embedding of every finite graph out of chewing gum and string. < 1318874245 621172 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SQL. < 1318874259 959292 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the problem you're facing is, but since you said "transaction", the best solution is probably SQL. < 1318874280 485891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO "best solution" equal to "SQL servers are the worst place to look to for ACID guarantees" < 1318874284 117768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1318874289 707888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1318874292 531800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the relational guarantess anyway < 1318874306 376435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're ACID + some shit, and I think it's the rest of them SQL servers fail at, but happily don't recall < 1318874309 338527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1318874324 958110 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FUSE filesystem over SQL. Doit. < 1318874326 959502 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that for ACIDness, I've never even thought to look at something that isn't a SQL server. < 1318874343 821235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318874347 224000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Commits are only done when there are no active commands running. Whenever a command writes to the filesystem in any way, every pending command (command running or not yet committed) is cancelled and added to the redo queue /in chronological order/ (i.e. in the order HackEgo saw them). < 1318874355 453034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: After a successful round of commits, the redo queue is executed. < 1318874367 475655 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :For small applications, SQLite. For large applications, the mean-looking elephant. < 1318874390 413328 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For really huge applications, the cute-looking elephant. But I have no idea how to use the cute-looking elephant. I bet it's really expensive.) < 1318874402 111342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So basically, all commands after a write only execute after that write (except they're executed preemptively because most of the time there won't be a write). < 1318874409 539470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's easier to implement than explain, really :P < 1318874417 324058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Which elephant is htat < 1318874418 976842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just realized that for ACIDness, I've never even thought to look at something that isn't a SQL server. <-- hm, same < 1318874419 452020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ht/th/ < 1318874421 593899 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sounds feasible to me *shrugs* < 1318874426 425044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where else do you find ACID? < 1318874434 963096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: STM < 1318874438 92025 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know. The yellow one that pushes things with its trunk. < 1318874443 371163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything transactional :P < 1318874450 842253 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doug Cutting's son's toy elephant. < 1318874452 487406 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hadoop. < 1318874455 416794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, STM is not to persistent storage < 1318874465 299843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of key for ACID < 1318874474 850845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hadoop is open-source :P < 1318874475 858760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in the STM stuff I have seen < 1318874485 669120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not ACIDP. < 1318874490 105431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acid pee sounds awful. < 1318874492 114219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ACID. < 1318874500 145507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, durability is arguable. < 1318874510 737568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But certainly transactions can't be undone in STM. < 1318874512 158779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the D in ACID implies it yeah < 1318874512 715970 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are ACID things that are not persistent? That sounds... not exactly pointful. < 1318874516 538867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1318874521 478745 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal: Incidentally, gelfload can run a fair selection of Solaris binaries. < 1318874528 419642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Sure, if you think ACI and most of D are pointless. < 1318874529 263419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nice < 1318874533 957068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ever programmed with locks? < 1318874534 120793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal: Kinda makes you wish microcosm meaningfully existed, donnit :P < 1318874546 799760 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, locks. I guess it is useful after all. < 1318874550 837387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P < 1318874556 18874 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41a55.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318874565 105238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Locks are not ACID. < 1318874566 804018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well it was over my head in that I couldn't understand what you actually wanted < 1318874572 163815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Locks are proof that ACID is great. < 1318874575 819687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because locks are awful. < 1318874589 66191 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1318874603 221096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :locks are I, possibly A too, but not really < 1318874636 752091 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of using locks, you just kind of take all the stuff that you'd put into a lock thingy, and put it in a transaction instead, or something? < 1318874654 53792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I direct you to the documentation of http://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm :P < 1318874671 668924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose only http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/stm/2.2.0.1/doc/html/Control-Monad-STM.html and http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/stm/2.2.0.1/doc/html/Control-Concurrent-STM-TVar.html actually matter since everything else is implemented on top of them. < 1318874701 826325 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought everything was implemented on top of, like, Verilog. < 1318874703 804995 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION coughs.
< 1318874726 68500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use a Verilog CPU? < 1318874735 195590 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. It really, really sucks. < 1318874747 98325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah VHDL is way better. < 1318874751 671982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1318874769 291268 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to reboot the computer every time I want to load or unload any code or data. < 1318874801 70734 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can load and unload data at any time, but I have to state how much of it I want beforehand, and which pieces of code are allowed to access it. < 1318874812 127868 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, all this sounds kind of sexy. < 1318874832 148321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need to hype orElse more in the stm package documentation; it's not obvious to me that you can do (Process <$> readTChan somequeue) `orElse` (Quit <$ readTVar quitVar) by that description (which you can). < 1318874857 523697 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318874868 173886 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: OpenIndiana kinda sucks. < 1318874880 196164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Really??? < 1318874910 334188 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's shocking, I know. < 1318874925 358266 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what alwaysSucceeds is supposed to do. < 1318874941 553897 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And all I want is a VFS :P < 1318874988 61867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah I have no idea how to do a file system. Whatever I would invent would likely be awkward. Because I have no idea how to do one correctly. < 1318874993 323373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Adds an invariant. < 1318874995 957486 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: say. Would you like an application virtual machine that is designed to allow multiple users to allow untrusted code simultaneously, while all their bits of code are allowed to share objects between each other? < 1318875007 536125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory :-P < 1318875033 555200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Have I mentioned that @ can do that? < 1318875034 704964 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah... right. < 1318875047 155703 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is @? < 1318875060 206496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I believe I explained that last time you talked here. < 1318875063 332866 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it your nonexistent programming project that's like my nonexistent programming projects? < 1318875072 354255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: @ is elliott's dream about making his own OS one day < 1318875092 694275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saying some of the ideas in it aren't good. Just saying that waiting for it is like waiting forever. < 1318875105 358846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh please, the "@ is vapourware" tack isn't even amusing when I've been refining the design with others in public on IRC. < 1318875107 17192 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gee, how many abandoned projects do I have? There's Jath, PhunchLua, AcidLua... and maybe some others.) < 1318875123 119729 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have any sort of persistent documentation of @? < 1318875128 74562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I'd actually claimed I was coding it now, then you'd have a point. < 1318875131 532171 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say "the #esoteric logs". < 1318875132 683569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1318875140 814846 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My projects have a tendency to not get far enough to count as projects, abandoned or not < 1318875144 767572 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1318875163 847376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not claiming you are coding. But I'm claiming that the design is taking forever. Design, coding. Two stages of development. < 1318875189 37688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, the rate of progress doesn't matter, only time to total completion? < 1318875200 793000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that measure, /any/ difficult project is vapourware by definition. < 1318875206 779392 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what development methodology are you using? < 1318875210 141297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where did I claim that? < 1318875212 709119 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say "winging it" and don't say "waterfall". < 1318875237 743886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Do I really have to name a fad? If I was winging it, I would be coding it. < 1318875240 534491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott: I'm not claiming you are coding. But I'm claiming that the design is taking forever. Design, coding. Two stages of development. < 1318875251 746381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The design is progressing at a steady rate, so you're just complaining about the absolute amount of time it's taken. < 1318875256 118724 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: certainly. You must choose a fad. < 1318875259 969239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where does that say "only time to total completion matters" < 1318875262 705344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore any difficult project is vapourware because it can't be produced in a short amount of time. < 1318875271 763193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Pet rocks. < 1318875273 891871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm complaining about the scope of the project I guess < 1318875278 845073 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good. < 1318875307 522997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Damn, why didn't I try and clone Unix? < 1318875314 426057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I knew it'd make Vorpal happy... < 1318875317 456133 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If a transaction cannot be committed due to conflicting changes, it is typically aborted and re-executed from the beginning until it succeeds." That sounds pretty awesome. < 1318875331 869539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clone plan9 instead < 1318875334 684464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's implemented more efficiently than that, at least in GHC STM :P < 1318875341 272533 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1318875380 304621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance (Process <$> readTChan somequeue) `orElse` (Quit <$ readTVar quitVar) as a transaction only "executes" whenever anyone writes to the channel or the variable. < 1318875555 838174 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly wonder how efficiently one could implement the next-Fibonacci-number function. Given a Fibonacci number, return the next one. < 1318875598 272897 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's easy to do with a simple hash table as long as the size of the number has a small bound, like 64 bits. < 1318875615 931765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: next(n) = n + prev(n) :-P < 1318875632 67690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prev(n) sounds harder. < 1318875681 862723 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it would be much easier to do if it were "given two consecutive Fibonacci numbers, return the next one". < 1318875692 636335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously prev(n) can = fib(fibno(n) - 1). < 1318875696 971142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that just offloads the problem to fibno. < 1318875697 792500 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the easiest possible non-trivial problem. < 1318875702 735191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You can probably do it with one of the closed form solutions. < 1318875708 709650 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibno seems pretty easy to do. Just take the log base phi or something. < 1318875712 330966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1318875739 672302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next(n) = n + fib(fibno(n) - 1), where fib and fibno are closed-form. < 1318875745 950799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds pretty fast. < 1318875756 3461 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a closed form solution of fib: < 1318875766 13273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a non-recursive form of fib? < 1318875781 432346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal really does operate about ten lines behind everyone else. < 1318875788 230076 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) = (a^n - b^n)/(a - b) < 1318875791 17395 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where a and b are constants. < 1318875792 556918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, the closed form < 1318875794 314432 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... invert that, elliott. < 1318875804 63145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is becuase I jump between channels < 1318875816 631033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Huh, is (a-b) = sqrt(five) actually? < 1318875823 137804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1318875823 626205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett:: < 1318875848 342927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=inverse+of+%28a^n+-+b^n%29%2F%28a+-+b%29 THAT'S NOT A PONY < 1318875864 53922 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so. < 1318875898 498694 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and how's it supposed to know which variable to take the inverse with respect to? < 1318875904 726227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plugs in the values of a and b.
< 1318875921 928332 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you know what a and b are? I don't think I told you. < 1318875936 11426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic. < 1318875940 999018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=inverse+of+%28phi^n+-+%28-1%2Fphi%29^n%29%2Fsqrt%28five%29 Well that didn't help. < 1318875949 455515 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = phi < 1318875952 762286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b = -1/phi < 1318875956 905580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4c.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP212719heh519ig49ig8300006a4he3dhfchf7h85?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=33&w=240&h=190&cdf=Rotation < 1318875957 734104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funky. < 1318875968 167271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1318875973 483235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I wonder if Mathematica could handle it. < 1318875993 771047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1318876004 608096 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a closed form that involves the floor function. So... use the inverse floor function. < 1318876011 852091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is more advanced than W|A in general. Reminds me... Isn't Mathematica 8 out? < 1318876020 417498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ah yes, a common function. < 1318876030 136556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hmm, it actually looks doable there. < 1318876036 426597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1318876039 722748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1318876045 384460 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, and Wolfie by default assumes phi is a variable. < 1318876051 870376 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to say "where phi = the golden ratio" or something. < 1318876061 60566 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it will say "blah blah blah where phi = phi" in the result.) < 1318876066 490267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1318876069 767571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfie! < 1318876078 681050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=inverse+of+%28phi^n+-+%28-1%2Fphi%29^n%29%2Fsqrt%28five%29+where+phi+%3D+golden+ratio < 1318876087 562138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: See, you just take the reciprocal of the fibonacci number. : < 1318876088 382733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1318876089 206101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you idiots doing this time. < 1318876096 877033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Inverting fib. < 1318876106 879992 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318876125 362293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hmm, next(n) = n + fib(fibno(n) - 1) is rather overcomplicated, since it's next(n) = fib(fibno(n) + 1). < 1318876128 874336 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see. Isn't every function Z -> Z extensible to an analytic function? < 1318876196 671525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oi, help us. < 1318876203 766596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://bigintegers.blogspot.com/2011/08/inverse-fibonacci-invfibfibnn.html < 1318876207 555516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Here's something awful. < 1318876214 361315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1318876215 509518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has loops. < 1318876218 319090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow that's ugly. < 1318876227 810995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5162780/the-inverse-fibonacci-problem < 1318876229 308923 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the inverse loop function. < 1318876233 411831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Looks like there's an O(log n) algorithm for it. < 1318876252 223813 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, it's called "enumerate the Fibonacci numbers intil you find it". < 1318876261 636633 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :...until. < 1318876268 738806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, right. < 1318876271 864326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Theirs looks fancier. :( < 1318876307 105126 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I think that's actually... quadratic or cubic or something in the length of the number. So, O(log n). :P < 1318876308 275102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function just looks like a normal exponential one, but I'm sure you tried that. < 1318876322 255125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next(n) = floor(log(sqrt(5) * (fibno(n) + 1))/log(phi) + 1/2) < 1318876328 427916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tried what? < 1318876329 897288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no it's not. < 1318876334 663026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, plotting fib. < 1318876341 305442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Measuring memory usage by counting unbounded words is sort of silly, but as long as that's the model, there's an O(log n) time, O(1) word solution similar to Nikita Rybak's that in essence computes n via its Zeckendorf representation, which is based on the Fibonacci numbers (YO DAWG)." < 1318876343 11842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With n continuous, of course. < 1318876357 172320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But yeah, that matrix thing looks like the best idea. < 1318876359 644986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the least simple idea. < 1318876367 238878 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, wait. The problem was "Given F(n) for n > 2, what is n?". So enumerating the Fibonacci numbers would be O(n). < 1318876373 112336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5162780/the-inverse-fibonacci-problem/5254783#5254783 < 1318876376 244532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, calculation = approximation. < 1318876383 491159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yesyesyes but that doesn't help us. < 1318876393 363309 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the matrix thing is pretty simplpy. < 1318876398 287241 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1318876407 947095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, but it's not /stupidly/ simple. < 1318876424 779106 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, it seems like the obvious-ish way to do it. < 1318876433 494557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: By the way, what are you actually doing? < 1318876465 124057 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for the 56th Fibonacci number? Calculate the 1st, then the 2nd, then the 4th, then the 8th, then the 16, then the 32nd, then the 64th, then the 48th, then the 56th, and hey, your'e there. < 1318876470 424509 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're. < 1318876470 585908 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nothing. < 1318876471 244805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5162780/the-inverse-fibonacci-problem/5266829#5266829 < 1318876479 863273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Hmm, what if we used the full-precision reals involved there? < 1318876487 103773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems simplest. < 1318876488 242877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :40585 is the sum of the factorial of its digits < 1318876545 159640 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in fac 4 + fac 0 + fac 5 + fac 8 + fac 5 < 1318876546 43757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 40585 < 1318876577 140125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :115,132,219,018,763,992,565,095,597,973,971,522,401 is the sum of the 39th power of its digits < 1318876596 400117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is Ngevd some kind of calculating prodigy all of a sudden. < 1318876602 38247 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what number is the sum of the squares of its digits? < 1318876612 858929 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A website reading prodigy, I'm afraid < 1318876625 352697 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1? < 1318876631 720531 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bravo. < 1318876690 687368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let digits 0 = []; digits n = uncurry (:) $ digits <$> swap (n `divMod` 10); swap (x,y) = (y,x) in digits 9909 < 1318876691 625331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [9,0,9,9] < 1318876714 890394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let digits 0 = []; digits n = uncurry (:) $ digits <$> swap (n `divMod` 10); swap (x,y) = (y,x); fac n = product [1..n] in 40585 == sum (map factorial (digits 40585)) < 1318876715 835302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `factorial' < 1318876719 15616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let digits 0 = []; digits n = uncurry (:) $ digits <$> swap (n `divMod` 10); swap (x,y) = (y,x); fac n = product [1..n] in 40585 == sum (map fac (digits 40585)) < 1318876719 917876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1318876729 776307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let digits 0 = []; digits n = uncurry (:) $ digits <$> swap (n `divMod` 10); swap (x,y) = (y,x); fac n = product [1..n] in filter (\n -> n == sum (map fac (digits n))) [0..] < 1318876733 718376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1318876735 86696 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n = read $ filter isDigit "115,132,219,018,763,992,565,095,597,973,971,522,401" :: Integer in (==n) . sum . map ((^39) . toInteger . digitToInt) . show $ n < 1318876736 741890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1318876736 995296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1318876752 68771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Applicative> let digits 0 = []; digits n = uncurry (:) $ digits <$> swap (n `divMod` 10); swap (x,y) = (y,x); fac n = product [1..n] in filter (\n -> n == sum (map fac (digits n))) [0..] < 1318876752 397996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,2,145,40585 < 1318876759 646338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll get another answer for a while. < 1318876771 467827 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,145,40585 < 1318876771 939988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Factorions: equal to the sum of the factorials of their digits in base 10. < 1318876772 213225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,145,40585] < 1318876781 902063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1318876783 222836 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the numbers that are the sums of the cubes of their digits: 1, 153, 370, 371, 407 < 1318876786 369123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sequence for everything. < 1318876792 317944 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,153,370,371,407 < 1318876792 888345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fixed points for operation of repeatedly replacing a number by the sum of th... < 1318876793 170754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,153,370,371,407] < 1318876799 801396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 115132219018763992565095597973971522401 < 1318876800 263618 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Armstrong (or Plus Perfect, or narcissistic) numbers: n-digit numbers equal ... < 1318876800 540507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,153,370,371,407,1634,8208,9474,54748,92727,93084,548834,1... < 1318876811 563658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Are you reading the OEIS. < 1318876814 622131 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1318876823 612036 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,1634,8208,9474 < 1318876824 56298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fixed points for operation of repeatedly replacing a number by the sum of th... < 1318876824 344204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1634,8208,9474] < 1318876836 32287 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A website that was the first on my long road to esoteric programming I am reading, though < 1318876847 688686 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an entire seqeunce of sequences there. < 1318876849 171501 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sequence. < 1318876858 399393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis bad numbers < 1318876859 151891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Badly sieved numbers: as in the Sieve of Eratosthenes multiples of unmarked ... < 1318876859 424471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,5,7,8,11,12,13,17,18,19,23,27,29,30,31,37,41,43,45,47,50,53,59,61,63,67... < 1318876863 13898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1318876866 737837 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you guys mind if I just sort of correct all my typos by stating the correct word afterward, instead of jactually correcting them in place? < 1318876870 51703 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. < 1318876921 243219 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1318876924 699025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jactually. < 1318876940 73221 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that typo, I must say. It seems... jactual. < 1318876977 386795 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :'/win 7 < 1318876999 840907 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :/win 7 < 1318877053 44168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win seven, you lose even. < 1318877063 587432 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that supposed to mean? < 1318877070 511591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1318877076 769752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cracks knuckles and prepares to respond to this crazy reddit guy.
< 1318877078 89547 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1318877085 637548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't actually crack knuckles, but does prepare.
< 1318877091 72412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/even/seven/ < 1318877092 910544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Does that help? < 1318877095 376650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except only the second even. < 1318877097 377961 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly. < 1318877113 966410 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay, now I know what STM is. < 1318877120 596372 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what the heck does alwaysSuccesds do? < 1318877123 567375 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :alwaysSucceeds. < 1318877141 242693 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I just answer my own question, correctly? < 1318877171 406240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It adds an invariant. < 1318877179 195789 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318877184 78516 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Which invariant does it add, and what is the effect of that invariant? < 1318877203 485796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alwaysSucceeds adds a new invariant that must be true when passed to alwaysSucceeds, at the end of the current transaction, and at the end of every subsequent transaction. If it fails at any of those points then the transaction violating it is aborted and the exception raised by the invariant is propagated. < 1318877226 570922 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give an example? < 1318877227 890367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So once you do (alwaysSucceeds action), that action must result in true upon execution when passed to alwaysSucceeds, < 1318877231 74349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of the current transaction, < 1318877234 197259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end of every subsequent transaction; < 1318877242 981153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this is ever not the case, then the transaction in which it is violated is aborted. < 1318877247 410868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318877258 286702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, the invariant seems to be represented as a computation which throws an exception if the invariant is violated. < 1318877266 761625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So e.g. alwaysSucceeds (readTVar mustAlwaysBeTrue >>= guard). < 1318877299 703892 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can do something like alwaysSucceeds (hey make sure this one variable is equal to five), and then any transaction that sets it to not five will fail? < 1318877311 771848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1318877319 285225 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds simple enough. < 1318877331 396279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318877355 154431 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does check do? Nothing if it's true, and failure if it's false? < 1318877361 612747 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1318877363 753192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :check :: Bool -> STM a < 1318877363 916470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :check b = if b then return undefined else retry < 1318877364 63122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1318877370 136519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be redundant with the standard "guard" function. < 1318877370 302296 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1318877378 380835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has used guard for that in the past.
< 1318877415 112509 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know of those Haskell programs but it seem it can be used for sure, it might be useful in some cases, probably. < 1318877459 489172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a "Haskell program", it's implemented in GHC internal s:P < 1318877466 81382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/internal s:/internals :/ < 1318877470 798641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose GHC is a Haskell program, though :-) < 1318877486 185386 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: STM doesn't have a custom definition of "fail", I don't think < 1318877499 249117 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hang on < 1318877500 229799 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty guard < 1318877501 14465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *). (MonadPlus m) => Bool -> m () < 1318877503 69836 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, never mind < 1318877505 281637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1318877512 138641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (It annoys me that STM doesn't have a custom definition of fail.) < 1318877514 106179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be able to write < 1318877515 252630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { < 1318877520 91197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just x <- readTVar foo; < 1318877521 415840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1318877521 906774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1318877525 565959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose GHC is a Haskell program. < 1318877531 56228 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me that Monad still has fail < 1318877532 538206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes perfect sense, declaratively :P < 1318877540 384540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's probably never going to change ever. < 1318877542 544841 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But true, that could be useful < 1318877548 306569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to fix that in a backwards-compatible manner. < 1318877550 873707 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just switch to Coq. < 1318877553 516733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Obviously the reason is for use with do-notation. < 1318877562 444680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It didn't use to be the case < 1318877570 113546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was added because newbies got confused at MonadFail constraints appearing < 1318877571 641811 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just make do blocks have MonadFail m => m a type < 1318877573 848797 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they use fail < 1318877578 911366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatedly: Newbies ruined Haskell 98 < 1318877580 161745 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, damn newbies. < 1318877582 559821 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1318877584 697160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were even imagined newbies. < 1318877589 49460 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes that is one way. < 1318877611 628403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did you know that seq was in a type class previously??? And there was a Void type???? < 1318877615 992661 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, monad comprehensions are on the way back (right?) < 1318877620 698891 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe we'll get there again < 1318877623 128050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're in latest GHC release. < 1318877628 928754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and ... what else was in... < 1318877631 898691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IIRC (++) was Monoid < 1318877638 818366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some common now-monomorphic function was < 1318877641 635939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was map < 1318877645 903504 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe both :-) < 1318877653 381302 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/haskell/haskell-report-1.4-html/ < 1318877658 285545 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way is to make up a class for DoNotation which includes the stuff for dealing with do-notation directly. And then have default instances, that you can use that. < 1318877662 764263 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (++) was MonadPlus < 1318877663 716283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Basically we should just roll back to that release, add hierarchical modules, update base and call it a day. < 1318877672 564211 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And yes, map was Functor < 1318877678 707506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right. So much better. < 1318877689 105969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I wonder if [a, b, c] was :: (MonadPlus m) => m a < 1318877694 224827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would only make sense < 1318877718 414335 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle strict < 1318877718 833095 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Control.Monad.RWS.Strict < 1318877719 108727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Control.Monad.ST.Strict < 1318877719 255711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Control.Monad.State.Strict < 1318877721 7606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My favourite thing about 1.4 was all the standard monadic combinators were implemented with monad comprehensions < 1318877723 72083 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty strict < 1318877723 930856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `strict' < 1318877725 870751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict? < 1318877729 493789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eval a where < 1318877729 640648 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : seq :: a -> b -> b < 1318877729 640825 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : strict :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1318877730 51534 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : strict f x = x `seq` f x < 1318877735 428455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1318877740 861732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's dollar sign exclamation mark. < 1318877756 711098 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1318877767 8177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data a -> b -- No constructor for functions is exported. < 1318877767 154805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data a -> b = Function (Ptr Instruction) < 1318877769 721850 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?index ($!) < 1318877769 948286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude < 1318877791 556365 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- right-associating infix application operator (useful in continuation- < 1318877791 703429 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- passing style) < 1318877792 101666 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1318877798 510420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :( ) (Function ptrInstruction) x = [asm| push x; jmp $(ptrInstruction) |] < 1318877800 893421 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, continuation-passing style indeed. < 1318877802 759263 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318877813 998327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: heh < 1318877819 434509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it is :-P < 1318877831 7934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Cont not exist back then? I guess not < 1318877836 608292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Int = minBound ... -1 | 0 | 1 ... maxBound < 1318877850 154051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Double < 1318877850 320994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, they should have tried to pseudo-enumerate it. < 1318877863 938359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definitions < 1318877864 103961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- of enumFrom and enumFromThen allow floats to be used in arithmetic < 1318877864 269356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- series: [0,0.1 .. 1.0]. However, roundoff errors make these somewhat < 1318877864 415899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- dubious. < 1318877866 610353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat dubious indeed < 1318877880 736254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let foo = [1,3..10] < 1318877881 892616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1318877890 465438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length foo, length (map (/10) foo)) < 1318877892 73956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (5,6) < 1318877902 337111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he already showed Deewiant that one.
< 1318877918 27786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you did, but I'm quite aware of the issue. < 1318877928 282573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Conal did that one. < 1318877940 545818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (He actually didn't know of the issue until a few weeks ago when people he was teaching Haskell to ran into it) < 1318877957 109825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The lack of MR is to blame for that one, though. < 1318877964 26652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as defaulting but that goes without saying < 1318877970 636766 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known of the issue for quite some time. :-P < 1318877978 554701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should get rid of defaulting. < 1318877980 493793 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, it sucks. < 1318877984 831300 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, probably not. < 1318877990 108544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why not? < 1318877993 435373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK, for interactive use. < 1318878006 892365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But I use -Wall -Werror so I don't get to use defaulting, and I literally never have problems with that. < 1318878007 548612 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For interactive use and for short one-off programs < 1318878019 912528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short one-off programs shouldn't rule the language :P < 1318878048 921970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "default" with no types could be standardised to turn defaulting on :-P < 1318878052 508985 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, -Werror?) < 1318878062 300136 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work :-P < 1318878080 777619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Also, -Werror?) < 1318878092 366250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I turned it on to clean up Shiro and haven't broken the habit since < 1318878139 274650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's better than it is in C :P < 1318878173 40792 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It slows down debugging cycles :-P < 1318878210 598491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It shortens them by letting me fix bugs without running anything < 1318878226 369406 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's -Wall, -Werror doesn't help you there < 1318878264 813587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Except for all the warnings you decide don't need fixing because they're not applicable in this case, thus making you start automatically ignore warnings < 1318878272 273816 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, suppose you run x <- newTVarIO 'a'. < 1318878276 459617 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's your problem :-P < 1318878280 503641 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah, that's one hundred percent a Haskell statement.) < 1318878295 73451 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never "automatically ignore warnings" and I find it strange that people do < 1318878310 428407 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you run atomically (do writeTVar x 'b'; writeTVar x 'a'), and meanwhile, you run readTVarIO x. < 1318878315 699542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because you either ignore warnings, or get bothered by the irrelevant ones every single time. < 1318878320 734953 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible that the second of those things will return 'b' instead of 'a'? < 1318878359 524894 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warnings don't survive very long so it's not like there's many an "every single time" < 1318878383 840405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Is that a question about STM semantics or about readTVarIO semantics < 1318878393 943374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :readTVarIO == atomically . readTVar < 1318878398 74111 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length foo, length (map (/10) foo), length (map (/10) (map (/10) foo))) < 1318878399 658269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (5,6,6) < 1318878405 416236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So no, there is no chance. < 1318878411 830120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: STM provides no backdoors. < 1318878504 278626 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the second thread reads x, and then checks to make sure nobody has written to x "concurrently", and, if so, tries again? < 1318878512 200762 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on Uniquode < 1318878526 948282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Like I said, the "retry" is just a model. < 1318878535 440542 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm asking about that model. < 1318878554 519775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You can reason about STM as if it was sequential execution. < 1318878565 232440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, the (readTVarIO x) could return 'a', yes. < 1318878566 994403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1318878567 449114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1318878567 595773 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318878573 321181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: If the variable started with 'x' < 1318878576 782543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it could return 'x' too. < 1318878579 464624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's obvious. < 1318878583 901501 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1318878594 665087 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess sequential execution is a really obvious way to think about this. < 1318878607 837496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also think about it as "atomically" grabbing an exclusive lock over the entire system. < 1318878613 693051 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Solaris ls uses threads. < 1318878615 336078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the same thing :P < 1318878620 946900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO FAST < 1318878631 295728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it, like, sort with parallel mergesort? < 1318878640 241924 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HellifIno < 1318878645 714457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know it depends on pthreads :P < 1318878648 432365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was a joke :P < 1318878654 894136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I find it plausible that Solaris libc depends on pthreads < 1318878656 377433 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO IS YOUR FACE < 1318878664 785712 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I do atomically (do readTVar x; hey make sure x is equal to 5; writeTVar x 6), will that transaction just kinda hang around until x becomes 5, and then replace it with 6? < 1318878668 108239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless pthreads depends on libc I guess :P < 1318878686 591656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It'll block until x becomes 5, yeah. < 1318878695 820461 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will atomically return before then? < 1318878696 313575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Or, if we're enforcing PURE STRICT MODEL THINKING: It busyloops until x becomes 5 :P < 1318878706 84806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No; that's why it's called "atomically". < 1318878713 689619 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1318878724 560944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You can of course spawn it off in a thread. < 1318878729 672098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just (forkIO . atomically). < 1318878739 578634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In GHC, that's a lightweight thread.) < 1318878750 695051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GHC runs lightweight threads in a few OS threads.) < 1318878758 280363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You may already know this.) < 1318878778 310711 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is there, by chance, any way to save all the relevant state to disk at regular intervals? < 1318878791 457486 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should * do in Uniquode? < 1318878817 64137 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it should extend the private use areas. < 1318878876 386370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, you could fork off a thread that does "atomically { x <- readTVar blah; y <- readTVar bluh; ... return MyStateRecord { foo=x, bar=y, ... } }" periodically and writes that to disk. That isn't very nice, though. (You could define a wrapper library that looks like "newTVar :: (Serialise a) => a -> STM (TVar a)" and adds it to an internal list, and uses existentials etc. to avoid actually listing out every variable there.) < 1318878896 171113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't quite give you the D in ACID, because of course the program could crash before that serialisation happens, but it's not bad, and the wrapper library would make it seamless. < 1318878906 227077 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1318878917 207781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/acid-state offers full ACID transactional storage of standard Haskell values, with on-disk persistence. < 1318878926 85498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But it has some limitations, like you have to define transactions upfront. < 1318878936 198213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can't take any parameters that aren't serialisable, for obvious reasons (it's based on log storage). < 1318878939 328173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not log-storage. < 1318878941 309249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But literally storing a log :P < 1318878954 264957 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :An *actual log*. < 1318878959 53614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Made out of wod. < 1318878959 877949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wood. < 1318878964 334697 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. < 1318878973 71307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like trees are made out of paper. < 1318878980 599541 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they have wood over there? < 1318878988 21534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In England? No. < 1318878991 475818 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1318878994 597288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you can buy it at petrol stations < 1318879000 40504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, from lumber merchants < 1318879005 974085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on whether you want to burn it or make furniture out of it < 1318879007 296831 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all of the wood there is imported. < 1318879007 443265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We import it from the middle east < 1318879023 265183 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Russia < 1318879024 431700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there are some areas called "forest" that aren't actually forests < 1318879030 527441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also some actual forests, though, too < 1318879041 734338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although mostly just little ones nowadays < 1318879048 332627 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are they? Just sort of regions that contain a bunch of places marked "tree"? < 1318879056 178745 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are all of the actual forests imported, too? < 1318879056 675617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the trees in the UK are planted deliberately < 1318879063 934196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Piles of paper. < 1318879069 206272 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah. < 1318879084 441014 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do you have to manufacture paper there, or is the natural forest paper enough for all your needs? < 1318879090 432111 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does it grow to size, or do you have to cut it? < 1318879101 341714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper's nearly always done from "managed forests" < 1318879102 169454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It doesn't grow on trees, you know. < 1318879108 452484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are just bunches of pine trees being farmed < 1318879124 12644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a little logo saying Forest Stewardry Council on it < 1318879134 962244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reassure people that it wasn't made from rainforests or something stupid like that < 1318879150 156581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, throughout this conversation, I've been serious and elliott's been joking) < 1318879162 460454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really??????????????????????????? < 1318879166 250172 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes this down: British trees all say "Forest Stewardry Council" on them, except the ones imported from rainforests.
< 1318879173 108666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: as for the areas called "forest" which aren't, they're places which were forests once but aren't any more < 1318879179 605442 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, OpenIndiana's echo command appears to output by a series of wputchars. < 1318879191 177413 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was talking about oil < 1318879215 237689 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now, that's too many question marks. The limit is nine. < 1318879222 490386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does it convert what it echos between Unicode normalization forms? that'd be hilarious < 1318879245 493322 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I choose not to find the answer to that question :P < 1318879276 126893 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-21-30.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318879343 564893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You gotta be joking. < 1318879371 333061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define exit(a) flushb(); return (a) < 1318879373 480973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Holy shit... < 1318879456 759661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that definition can you write this instead: return (flushb(),(a)) would this even work, and would that one work too < 1318879460 909601 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Best part of this completely pointless project is discovering just how retarded Solaris is :P < 1318879487 385946 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where's that < 1318879508 839592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: echo.c < 1318879525 433313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.wmich.edu%2F~trthomps%2FClasses%2FCS%25202240%2Fsh_src%2Fheirloom-sh-050706%2Fecho.c&ei=EYGcTo7wNdSzhAeBkaGLBA&usg=AFQjCNHHVhYMfSdbCg2o1lwZmN_MOdAt4Q&sig2=ARvlnfObEYkTXCFs5ciiew < 1318879529 970111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOOGLEEEE < 1318879531 618369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1318879539 202173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a comment involving opensolaris but might not be opensolaris < 1318879541 489162 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cs.wmich.edu/~trthomps/Classes/CS%202240/sh_src/heirloom-sh-050706/echo.c < 1318879543 161254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, wait, http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/sh/echo.c < 1318879546 300017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1318879549 431857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/raw/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/sh/echo.c < 1318879561 9108 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, nice < 1318879581 114244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does prc_buff do anyway? < 1318879598 774487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to know < 1318879601 918172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an mbtowc call in there, anyway < 1318879604 223730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fun < 1318879638 378305 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wurve Solaris :P < 1318879655 82128 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/sh/print.c#208 < 1318879671 238397 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writes to a buffer, evidently < 1318879684 331696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where's the ncurses part :P < 1318879712 152523 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/lib/libcurses/ ? < 1318879723 356048 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris and Mac OS X are collectively a great reminder of why the UNIX brand name is not something to be proud of :P < 1318879849 550874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, OpenIndiana's echo command appears to output by a series of wputchars. < 1318879931 702787 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought wputchar was like a wide putchar < 1318879967 35295 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses would have waddch < 1318879971 214876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, darn :( < 1318879980 789415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just /look/ like curses names < 1318879981 946655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flushb too < 1318879990 392317 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrefresh < 1318880028 713546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Curses echo: the best? < 1318880043 672781 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echochar(3X) < 1318880071 818397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did people here see the Proggit post about how Outlook can be made to try to open a URL, without permission, on the UI thread? < 1318880080 145383 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1318880093 29625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1318880123 660228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that worries me, especially the bit where MS don't consider it a security bug < 1318880129 610455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just a regular bug < 1318880160 848730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How come jslinux is so much faster than jsmips < 1318880216 997227 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1318880509 165836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1318880799 484198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, Python has the most ridiculous thing ever < 1318880886 118748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module of silly walks < 1318880895 688240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No: gc.garbage < 1318880899 172228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list. < 1318880963 410131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhh, it isn't. < 1318880971 259402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It totally is. < 1318880983 821126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suspect the answer is "Bellard" :P) < 1318880990 169047 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linked list of garbage is a nice way to do refcounting < 1318881026 159815 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except python wants everything to be freed immediately, doesn't it < 1318881048 315319 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think the perceived difference in time is because my fork is slow. < 1318881055 524626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough. < 1318881065 573745 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actual process execution is faster. < 1318881069 420868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: gc.garbage¶ < 1318881069 589864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list of objects which the collector found to be unreachable but could not be freed (uncollectable objects). By default, this list contains only objects with __del__() methods. [1] Objects that have __del__() methods and are part of a reference cycle cause the entire reference cycle to be uncollectable, including objects not necessarily in the cycle but reachable only from it. Python doesn’t collect such cycles automatically because, in genera < 1318881069 757606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l, it isn’t possible for Python to guess a safe order in which to run the __del__() methods. If you know a safe order, you can force the issue by examining the garbage list, and explicitly breaking cycles due to your objects within the list. Note that these objects are kept alive even so by virtue of being in the garbage list, so they should be removed from garbage too. For example, after breaking cycles, do del gc.garbage[:] to empty the list. < 1318881071 895161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It’s generally better to avoid the issue by not creating cycles containing objects with __del__() methods, and garbage can be examined in that case to verify that no such cycles are being created. < 1318881300 55751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I can't figure out if that's an argument for or against refcounting < 1318881315 931713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Java decided that finalizers were a bad idea, incidentally, in its solution to the same problem) < 1318881356 748358 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finalizers are a bad idea for so many other reasons too. < 1318881360 120151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is, of course, not a problem in Feather < 1318881370 50410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for oh so many reasons < 1318881390 719003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you allow retroactive self-modification inside a destructor < 1318881395 174602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would you do that? < 1318881451 661054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Weeell, finalisers are nice for resource management < 1318881476 939722 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahyeah, I'm gettin' around to merging GGGGC's finalizers into the Fythe branch :P < 1318881505 733092 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how in the world does feather ever call destructors... < 1318881530 918425 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not? < 1318881553 8541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good, then maybe I can start working on bigints again :P < 1318881911 815528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318881949 756600 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318881978 930657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: err, because I don't want to think about the implications < 1318882003 876114 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit of a cop-out < 1318882007 140438 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let the users figure it out! < 1318882019 165221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course you might want to do that < 1318882025 118237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to enforce invariants < 1318882049 748985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, am I being trolled? < 1318882052 556438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say, if bad_thing then canary_ref := () else nop < 1318882065 391364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :canary_ref contains the sole reference to an object whose destructor goes back in time and fixes things < 1318882070 181271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, changes the result of a call to the "amb" operator < 1318882083 900690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why use destructors rather than just method calls? this isn't Reaper < 1318882101 159762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't set canary_ref < 1318882101 309380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not? < 1318882108 888604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the first one < 1318882122 299568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it would cause problems to allow retroactive self-modification in destructors < 1318882123 137337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only modify it so that it had the value () all along < 1318882127 763013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would merely cancel the destruction < 1318882136 716694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wouldn't; the problem then is to determine whether the destructor should be run or not < 1318882144 482450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the problem the original discussion was about < 1318882150 600227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make destructors pure, it's not a problem < 1318882151 919602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's easy < 1318882160 512017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: pure destructors are useless, right?) < 1318882161 668697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you rewind the state, modify it, and run the program < 1318882168 801128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it runs the destructor, then it runs < 1318882172 142869 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318882172 324650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it doesn't, and it's a paradox < 1318882193 546130 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1318882205 74316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (obviously, this is fixed-pointed, so the destructor has to end up doing nothing) < 1318882212 375533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (in the limit) < 1318882214 575233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1318882217 43326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you have Feather's time-travel model wrong there < 1318882232 243386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things always have effects, but are allowed to not have causes from the same timeline < 1318882233 724526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wasn't saying that's what actually happened < 1318882235 528514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a sort of meta-time thing < 1318882243 780653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was saying that's how you determine whether it runs or not < 1318882245 983480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where each timeline can affect the timeline after it < 1318882248 798101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, ouch < 1318882254 225059 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been such a long time, hasn't it < 1318882260 113959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : raii (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 10794 points, killed by a raven, while fainted from lack of food < 1318882262 869871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relevant, I guess? < 1318882266 176583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: eh? < 1318882270 223821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: why were you k-lined? < 1318882271 544924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rip raii < 1318882284 643292 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i was k-lined. too busy to solve that problem until now. < 1318882313 954964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no explanation? < 1318882314 468321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: why did it happen < 1318882318 267507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: enjoy your spam < 1318882330 545236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should introduce you to kerio some time < 1318882336 655288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably I shouldn't < 1318882339 993049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were in the quotes you linked < 1318882355 202665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked quotes? < 1318882368 26107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, in an attempt to prove that our qdb was awful < 1318882378 934161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theirs is worse; the top quote quality is better, but the average quote quality is lower < 1318882394 238540 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: operating a tor exit node on the IP address i was connecting from. just had to change my hostname to get back on. < 1318882422 237617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought freenode allowed Tor < 1318882432 739083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318882441 660515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess maybe you can connect with Tor, but not be an exit note yourself? < 1318882450 26237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they list a hidden service < 1318882489 135744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, something irrelevant that happened in RL just reminded me of a /really really bad/ antipattern I saw in student code today < 1318882507 470905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, why introduce me to kerio < 1318882512 925788 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antipattern? < 1318882532 249760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately, it was for(int i=0;i= 3 < 1318882546 693655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will never be called with n < 3 < 1318882559 87647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, f() wasn't a function, but a block statement (not a massively long one, but still) < 1318882565 704146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not an antipattern, that's just... a bug < 1318882570 846581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I thought it was a for-case, then I realised it was even worse < 1318882575 981816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't handle n>8 < 1318882578 776231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1318882580 444636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1318882584 451648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, it does < 1318882589 77413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1318882589 580312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: like a design pattern, except it causes huge explosions on contact with software < 1318882594 866973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes it does; it just doesn't do anything past 8 < 1318882595 362053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does nothing for n>8 < 1318882599 498079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's not intentional? < 1318882599 999889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318882603 803176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, not intentional < 1318882612 934321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just got bored writing cases, I think < 1318882641 349949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it wasn't copy-pasted either, I could tell as all the cases were indented differently < 1318882644 532264 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's actually supposed to happen there < 1318882653 875786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start i from 3 and call f() every time? < 1318882697 736323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's equivalent to if (n >= 3 && n <= 8) for (int i = 0;i Deewiant: it's equivalent to if (n >= 3 && n <= 8) for (int i = 0;i In software engineering, an anti-pattern (or antipattern) is a pattern that may be commonly used but is ineffective and/or counterproductive in practice. < 1318882939 882523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page has a list of common antipatterns < 1318882959 546346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which I don't know of < 1318883628 221479 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-21-30.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318884213 626421 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-21-30.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318884585 502465 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is TMVar a semantically equivalent to TVar (Maybe a)? < 1318884666 896502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. That is how it is implemented. < 1318884674 163946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Click the "source" link at the top-right of the page. < 1318884679 447193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is implemented on top of TVars. < 1318884684 569923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: BTW, you probably want to read http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/stm/stm.pdf. < 1318884696 751728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It covers GHC's entire STM model and implementation. < 1318884706 13328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not the details of the implementation.) < 1318884755 291569 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318885384 687466 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heylook, I'm running Linux binaries on Mac. < 1318885450 153359 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1318885472 282995 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelfload: The bestest. < 1318885490 68128 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1318885864 933661 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, loader of gelfs < 1318885884 827385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor "gelfloader" Gregor < 1318885894 387329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need to run the programs I wrote, you might be able to compile them yourself (that is, if it is a C program, Haskell program, etc) and run on any computer. The other one it is more difficult but it can probably be made. < 1318886121 376578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are an entity that can only make false statements. How can you convince an entity that believes everything you say that you can only make false statements? < 1318886148 768232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is easy) < 1318886173 712443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you capable of making /every/ false statement? < 1318886187 173877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not all of them < 1318886190 140433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(finite number of statements only) < 1318886197 759085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but arbitrary (finitely-sized) statements) < 1318886199 241049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, who cares about convincing people, just use your ability to solve major unsolved problems via binary search < 1318886203 230566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by seeing which statements you can make < 1318886216 113214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IT'S A RIDDLE :P < 1318886218 918987 :Ngevd!~Taneb@2.99.90.255 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318886220 400710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is how you answer that question. < 1318886238 450971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you see, once you've gone and solved a bunch of problems like that < 1318886247 331648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll become obvious that you have some magic ability to sense truth values < 1318886256 186977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey quintopia, Phantom_Hoover, YOU DO IT INSTEAD < 1318886258 405379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it'd become an issue of only-true versus only-false, which should be obvious < 1318886278 456859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Dude, the other entity doesn't apply intuition. < 1318886284 726922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "entity" not "person" :P < 1318886291 128368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1318886296 449070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: waht < 1318886364 535247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SOLV RIDLE < 1318886370 571217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial :P < 1318886371 877193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Candle. < 1318886426 986151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You are an entity that can only make false statements. How can you convince an entity that believes everything you say that you can only make false statements? < 1318886427 173403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (this is easy) < 1318886429 286326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OSOSOEVLE,VE, < 1318886464 462331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's half ten; you have passed the threshold beyond which answers other than 'candle' will be provided. < 1318886557 59092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're even worse than ais523. < 1318886572 670197 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (just guessing) the answer is three, right? < 1318886573 467133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if I tell it two contradictory lies? < 1318886578 748526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no. < 1318886583 536968 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. < 1318886584 101869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then it dies. < 1318886590 73312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And you lose. < 1318886593 47639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does humanity. < 1318886603 258262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what do gnomes often own in AceHack that they don't in vanilla? < 1318886629 976259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Candles. < 1318886646 900587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you guess? < 1318886669 599844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What's an obsolete method of producing light? < 1318886675 782885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Candles. < 1318886720 424826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wrong, torches < 1318886735 600957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's an odd number? < 1318886744 670531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Candles. < 1318886750 774211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wrong, 5 < 1318886771 568540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wrong, 523>. < 1318886773 384104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1318886777 7511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wrong, 523. < 1318886795 205670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the only acceptable answers are from 3 to 8 inclusive < 1318886803 943895 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Astronomers use supernovas of type 1a as standard what? < 1318886810 48977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Candle! < 1318886849 453133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, candle_s_ < 1318886862 518738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What did Mr. McCandless have none of? < 1318886881 255886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whisky. < 1318886897 50434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct answer was candles. < 1318886995 271975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus we get a glimpse into the true mind of a Scot like Phantom_Hoover: Candles, whisky, and nothing else. < 1318886996 755241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :provisional list of things that are not questions to which "Candles" is the correct answer: INTERCAL, the US national debt, manhole covers, this sentence < 1318887011 791441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: candles < 1318887013 275645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what more does one need? < 1318887019 798691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it < 1318887037 286892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1318887081 21114 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i can just imagine Phantom_Hoover going down the stairs of his huge castle in a nightgown carrying whisky and a candle. < 1318887094 234767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just made me realise that I have somehow internalised Wikipedia stock phrases < 1318887110 219036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have the best castle. < 1318887120 947519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so has everyone else; that's why the {{citation needed}} meme works < 1318887132 658837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a rather more obvious one than the one you used < 1318887135 122648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318887135 782824 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably also has chains; he's a phantom, after all < 1318887202 342143 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everyone else {{who}} ? < 1318887237 703015 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if it really is everyone, it's not technically a weasel word < 1318887306 335634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"everyone"'s the opposite of a weasel word < 1318887311 482132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh, has {{citation needed}} always been that? < 1318887314 966209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was a redirect to {{fact}} < 1318887317 935780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only weaselish due to not being believable < 1318887322 629452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to be the other wway around < 1318887335 828828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that name's existed pretty much forever, but {{fact}} was the official name for ages < 1318887343 415378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1318887346 546587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably changed as part of the campaign to have long readable English official names for templates < 1318887356 701683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that it doesn't matter which name's official anyway < 1318887358 17540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318887363 298117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm inclined to agree < 1318887368 249017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it serves as documentation < 1318887385 462074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This template was considered for deletion on 2006 July 1. The result of the discussion was nomination withdrawn on procedural technicality (and discussion was overwhelmingly in favor of keep). < 1318887391 925384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1318887392 752140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--[[Template talk:Citation needed]] < 1318887397 41515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "overwhelmingly" italicised in original < 1318887406 993591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete This template is the equivalent of an editor's markup on a rough draft. It litters many otherwise good articles on Wikipedia with ugly, unprofessional looking clutter that only serves to highlight the articles' defects to non-editors. No real encyclopedia would go to press with marks like this left in its articles. This is the type of thing that belongs on an article's talk page, not in the article itself. Template:fact should be deleted a < 1318887407 162221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd instances of its use should be replaced with appropriate discussions on the talk pages of the articles where it is used. dryguy 17:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC) < 1318887412 762676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure /that/ went down well < 1318887422 990480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a general rule of Wikipedia is that any sufficiently well-known non-article page will have been nominated for deletion < 1318887424 896949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only five thousand million billion trillion occurrences to fix < 1318887451 643005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a corollary, in the case of a /really/ well known-page like the main page or AfD, it will actually have been deleted < 1318887468 41211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I saw an AfD once for [[Adolf Hitler]], where the submitter argued that since Hitler was a bad man (they didn't say evil or anything, literally "bad") there shouldn't be an article on him < 1318887469 73887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the developers made the sandbox undeletable at one point, because someone deleting it crashed the servers) < 1318887471 207405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as punishment, I guess? < 1318887498 73600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, why would that crash the servers? < 1318887508 530463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because of people trying to edit a page that doesn't exist and that codepath not being optimised? < 1318887520 648707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, because it was trying to move all the edits to the sandbox ever from one db table to another < 1318887524 155096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /that/ codepath wasn't optimised < 1318887526 793704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1318887539 780134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder how much space the history for the sandbox takes up < 1318887585 556077 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the year 3000, the history for the sandbox will occupy most of the main landmass on planet Xygiton 5 < 1318887603 618296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the sandbox history was actually perma-deleted after that incident < 1318887607 779004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just moved to the archive table < 1318887628 650505 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil revisionists! < 1318887723 881381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, after that happened they added a limit where pages with more than 5000 revisions couldn't be deleted < 1318887745 974617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone tried to edit the main page 5000 times in order to make it undeletable (Wikipedians have a tendency to come up with "ingenious" workarounds like that) < 1318887753 337184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the main page actually was deleted because they'd miscounted < 1318887759 764243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the devs got really really angry < 1318887769 747715 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huffin' and puffin' < 1318887794 253794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointing out how much server load it would be to spam 5000 edits into the main page of every Wikimedia wiki in every language < 1318887852 861493 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So have you stopped using partial functions < 1318887864 827467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When < 1318887872 599643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually avoid partial functions, and always have < 1318887881 491680 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah he's concentrating on beating his girlfriend now < 1318887893 832144 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean completely < 1318887904 296887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why would I do that < 1318887906 406558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"div" is pretty useful < 1318887947 415802 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromMaybe (error "b is zero") (a `tryDiv` b) < 1318887958 450376 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just musing based on that article in /r/haskell < 1318887958 597064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you do that < 1318887973 494251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, I don't think anyone doesn't use partial functions, and I don't know why you think I would :P < 1318887980 268466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like head are pretty egregious; div isn't < 1318887985 503511 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw your comments so I figured I'd ask < 1318887992 402052 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about things like head, then? < 1318888011 314208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, head's dubious enough that any use of it should probably have an explanatory error message < 1318888022 260095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like div is benign < 1318888040 566376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if we got a Nat1 where (0 :: Nat1) was a compile time failure, I'd be all for div :: (Integral a) => a -> Nat1 -> a < 1318888043 840633 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, I'm a bad person then < 1318888046 179067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :head /etc/passwd -n 1 || echo "there are no users help" < 1318888049 313240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When do you use head < 1318888053 292329 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :readOct' = fst . head . readOct < 1318888054 807392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I've got the args backwards there, right? < 1318888061 951862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :head -n 1 /etc/passwd || echo "there are no users help2 < 1318888064 260137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2/"/ < 1318888067 588268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Here's what I normally do for read: < 1318888092 681805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: case reads str of [(n,"")] -> n; _ -> failSomehow < 1318888096 640413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I take it this is in your UI < 1318888106 434092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you should probably do the general "print error, display usage" thing < 1318888109 700454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter for quick hacks obviously < 1318888116 732295 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used after parsing octal digits with trifecta < 1318888128 4519 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it "shouldn't fail ever" < 1318888128 769543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then why do you need to turn it into a string < 1318888132 783235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can construct a parser that reads octal < 1318888139 220566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to turn it into a number < 1318888148 287865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And?d < 1318888150 104257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d// < 1318888160 962080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: To parse octal: Read octal digit, read octal number, combine the two appropriately. < 1318888167 61426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: Parser Integer < 1318888174 497642 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "combine the two appropriately" is implemented in Numeric.readOct < 1318888192 789573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, combining the two is as simple as < 1318888202 221199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d*8 + r < 1318888222 92309 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :d*8 + digitToInt r < 1318888229 120136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1318888230 750797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d is the digit here < 1318888237 194058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless your octal is backwards < 1318888245 281660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh err < 1318888252 532444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you have to do it backwards < 1318888261 931514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's left-recursive :( < 1318888267 41499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But anyway, just write your own as a Parser :P < 1318888270 344747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or don't, but that's what I'd do < 1318888281 162641 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a Parser, it just uses readOct < 1318888289 287228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a rather silly thing to roll your own though... < 1318888289 836943 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of a hand-written foldl < 1318888292 420113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gah < 1318888296 541624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It wouldn't be a foldl < 1318888308 467733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't read many octal digits and then combine them < 1318888313 246532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it step-by-step < 1318888331 852239 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle chainl < 1318888332 200624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator chainl :: Stream s m t => ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m (a -> a -> a) -> a -> ParsecT s u m a < 1318888332 487809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP chainl :: ReadP a -> ReadP (a -> a -> a) -> a -> ReadP a < 1318888332 634568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Combinator chainl :: Stream s m t => ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m (a -> a -> a) -> a -> ParsecT s u m a < 1318888338 942938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See < 1318888339 440911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada < 1318888363 772791 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle chainl1 < 1318888364 22492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator chainl1 :: Stream s m t => ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m (a -> a -> a) -> ParsecT s u m a < 1318888364 300204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP chainl1 :: ReadP a -> ReadP (a -> a -> a) -> ReadP a < 1318888364 446937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Combinator chainl1 :: Stream s m t => ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m (a -> a -> a) -> ParsecT s u m a < 1318888367 488234 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that different from a foldl :-P < 1318888404 354690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because you avoid the partiality? < 1318888406 520162 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's not appropriate in this particular case as I know exactly how many characters I've got < 1318888411 737436 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is foldl partial? < 1318888417 213819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: readOct is < 1318888418 701485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And it also uses less memory, presumably < 1318888423 525401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because many has to keep them all in memory < 1318888464 440348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this point I was comparing foldl to chainl, not readOct < 1318888471 165032 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a foldl it wouldn't be partial < 1318888532 429246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when did you start being slavishly legal? < 1318888546 695153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there was a time when I wasn't? < 1318888558 763634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right < 1318888559 428292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there was, but I don't really remember it well < 1318888580 997665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I mean, did you never sing Happy Birthday at parties? < 1318888618 888315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was a while before I discovered that that was illegal, and I'm still not sure on the matter < 1318888640 813578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, we used to sing it to the tune of "good morning to you", because that's what was in the book of piano tunes we bought < 1318888644 4517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it differs by one note) < 1318888650 538121 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So it doesn't seem like chainl could help me here, and writing the foldl probably wouldn't simplify this any < 1318888665 205129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh well, sucks to be you then < 1318888711 775161 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see you're interested :-) < 1318888738 560383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think that makes it legal? < 1318888761 252566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it does, because IIRC Happy Birthday To You was a modification of Good Morning To You in the first place < 1318888784 169124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How does (forever $ a `catch` b) parse < 1318888790 596973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am, but you haven't given sufficient details < 1318888824 453540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 `catch`) < 1318888825 465062 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `System.IO.Error.catch' [infixl 9] of a section < 1318888825 713622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have... < 1318888845 727927 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as forever (catch a b), i'd assume < 1318888862 511825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks < 1318888870 622128 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a <- octDigit; b <- optional octDigit; c <- optional octDigit; return (plzCombine a b c) < 1318888885 195156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dude, just unroll it < 1318888902 994280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (a*16 + b*8 + c) < 1318888925 372134 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like magic numbers :-P < 1318888931 200247 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: technically, it has to be that or be a parse error (if there were an infixl? 0 `catch`) < 1318888983 370219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh come on < 1318888990 947714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right < 1318889017 677312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What about < 1318889025 129874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forever $ B.hGetLine h >>= writeChan lineChan `catch` ignoreEOFError < 1318889055 348267 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever (B.hGetLine h >>= (writeChan lineChan `catch` ignoreEOFError)) < 1318889060 290638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: darn, you're right :( < 1318889062 301584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION parenthesises more
< 1318889068 730344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1318889099 642880 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`catch` presumably has no fixity defined, so defaults to infixl 9 < 1318889101 290062 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: catch`: not found < 1318889135 989341 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not _that_ common to define fixities of alphanumerics < 1318889145 307143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well sure, but `catch` is common :P < 1318889154 225015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can avoid it if I do forever . handle ignoreEOFError. < 1318889158 61879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1318889160 73410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to ignore it < 1318889161 927944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to kill the thread < 1318889164 920586 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the division operators excepted < 1318889180 290146 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318889191 373474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there really no simpler way of doing myThreadId >>= killThread... < 1318889229 271861 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Call the continuation! < 1318889243 653181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: THX SUPER HELPFUL :P < 1318889251 432377 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can't you just throw an exception? < 1318889260 485211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about simply not using catch at all? :P < 1318889271 194865 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw ThreadKilled < 1318889286 595004 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that kill the thread < 1318889298 788894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well yes but that's awful too. < 1318889302 410811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but it prints an ugly error message. < 1318889306 200637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just define my own loop structure. < 1318889309 945045 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 $$ < 1318889310 490619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1318889314 773540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (forever $ (B.hGetLine h >>= writeChan lineChan)) `catch` ignoreEOFError < 1318889315 776815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy < 1318889320 310910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can reduce parens < 1318889324 464758 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't even sure what elliott was trying to do.
< 1318889343 781616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Quit the thread silently on EOF. < 1318889351 520210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : handle ignoreEOFError . forever $ B.hGetLine h >>= writeChan lineChan < 1318889352 14321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1318889409 629759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bewdiful < 1318889428 273211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I SENSE SARCASM < 1318889476 872326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oerjan: OK, you have to admire this GHC error for me. < 1318889478 503653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forever < 1318889479 454773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b < 1318889483 320999 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wom 8 < 1318889485 313609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forever $ readChan lineChan >>= B8.putStrLn < 1318889489 432542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/Code/mergeln/mergeln.hs:19:3: < 1318889489 598339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: A do-notation statement discarded a result of type GHC.Prim.Any. < 1318889489 745019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Suppress this warning by saying "_ <- ($) < 1318889489 745172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forever (>>=) readChan lineChan B8.putStrLn", < 1318889489 745281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : or by using the flag -fno-warn-unused-do-bind < 1318889494 438613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shachaf: I just... < 1318889498 731775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am literally speechless. < 1318889504 734445 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ooh, give it to #haskell < 1318889513 741840 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were just talking about it. < 1318889522 369594 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: D: < 1318889548 450758 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this even in a do block? < 1318889561 317911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes < 1318889569 558781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They were? < 1318889587 24114 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it might not've been "just" < 1318889601 143409 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm it's because the forever result defaults to Any rather than (), presumably < 1318889674 459025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1318889703 727415 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logically, Any should be just as discardable < 1318889721 273397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apparently it's probably a bug < 1318889750 658552 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's how it works when you default a type variable with no class restriction < 1318889760 53924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, I mean the warning < 1318889824 438813 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would make sense to do something else, naturally. < 1318889874 871641 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318890094 161626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall forever used to have a stricter type, then we noticed it didn't need one < 1318890166 729128 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess if you are warning against discarding non-()'s in do, then it would make sense to restrict forever to have m () argument < 1318890186 366609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I want forever :: IO () -> IO () < 1318890218 823532 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people want when :: Bool -> IO a -> IO () < 1318890233 100555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t when < 1318890233 968671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => Bool -> m () -> m () < 1318890240 514061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Some people are wrong < 1318890257 105298 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1318890360 465816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some kind of whenFoo :: Bool -> IO a -> IO (Maybe a) might be nice < 1318890454 330717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: You writing half my program drove me to actually bother writing mine, so thanks I guess :P < 1318890502 430535 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1318890504 593308 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I what? < 1318890528 577864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: You wrote half that line-merging program in C# < 1318890540 578396 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1318890555 424698 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no need to thank since you didn’t use any of it :-p < 1318890586 153453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the Haskell<->C# bridges are like. < 1318890588 418769 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1318890788 16483 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318891098 336201 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318891110 469646 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318891481 895283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl if isEOFError e then return () else throwIO e < 1318891482 181282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 31): < 1318891482 415235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected " " < 1318891482 561858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or "else" < 1318891487 170683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1318891492 931044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl unless (isEOFError e) (throwIO e) < 1318891493 211143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless (isEOFError e) (throwIO e) < 1318891499 522999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \e -> unless (isEOFError e) (throwIO e) < 1318891499 801220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 unless isEOFError throwIO < 1318891505 493759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Should I should I should I < 1318891513 72099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to using guards :-P < 1318891636 596919 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 unless reads a bit strangely IMO :-P < 1318891663 383748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I would use the Applicative operators < 1318891678 579114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless <$> isEOFError <*> throwIO < 1318891743 6875 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I thought about that but honestly I might also just leave it pointed < 1318891757 439521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, this is just distracting me from my Weird Bug :P < 1318891770 267799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: A conditional + return () just made me think. < 1318891780 990453 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in general I don't like "unless" but that seems like an appropriate case < 1318891937 215432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318892019 116656 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-237-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318892037 501262 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-253-175.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318892130 876281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The <*> operation in Haskell does not seem to me entirely useful for most purposes, as far as I can tell. < 1318892181 936907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be used defining other things in terms of that, I suppose, including <* and *> are automatically figured out from that, I think < 1318892199 897103 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it is most useful when chained as f <$> m1 <*> m2 <*> ... < 1318892233 485936 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I have never used it like that. < 1318892240 496913 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then replaces all the liftA* functions, including for sizes not predefined < 1318892242 350071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it lets you lift a function of arbitrary arity into the monad < 1318892247 359398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the applicative :-) < 1318892249 41234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1318892253 513494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really useful in parsers: < 1318892265 311426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MyData <$> subpart <*> anothersubpart <*> anothersubpart < 1318892274 494790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And any monad forms an applicative, so that it can work; OK < 1318892286 306497 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott'sData < 1318892300 469445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, my data. < 1318892301 437803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, that is its use. I have just used liftM2 a lot < 1318892316 906203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, I prefer the applicative operators, since you need fewer parens, and you don't have to specify the arity upfront < 1318892319 166296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 = liftA2; liftA2 f x y = f <$> x <*> y < 1318892386 13893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I suppose you are correct and that is a use. I didn't know that before. < 1318892433 390183 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have written parsers in Haskell, using Parsec, and I have just used liftM2, sometimes liftM3, and often using *> and <* and <|> and <$> < 1318892680 926769 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And <$ is also useful < 1318892713 693028 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1318893083 867694 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, <*> can also be useful directly if you have a prefix operator which you want to parse as a constructor applied to its argument. and we once found a use for <**> for parsing a similar postfix operator for an esolang < 1318893108 409322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I don't understand what you mean there < 1318893167 931191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well say you have a Negate constructor, then you can parse as (char '-' *> Negate) <*> expr < 1318893168 857004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you give the specific example of that use of the <*> operator? < 1318893190 873575 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1318893223 534040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, like that. Do you mean: (Negate <$ char '-') <*> expr since the arguments to *> must be the same applicatives < 1318893235 513287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1318893324 107271 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the <**> example we had was something like ... <**> ((negate <$ char '-') <|> id) < 1318893346 756279 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where - was postfix and the result of the calculation was evaluated < 1318893370 204270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure id < 1318893382 607470 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1318893454 919033 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1318893458 291511 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle option < 1318893458 641232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Html option :: Html -> Html < 1318893458 937046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator option :: Stream s m t => a -> ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m a < 1318893459 83719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP option :: a -> ReadP a -> ReadP a < 1318893506 403076 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps option id (negate <$ char '-') would have been better < 1318893521 204165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1318893638 416459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes that might be it < 1318894117 17436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I ever mentioned how confusing it is that the Bank of Scotland and the Royal Bank of Scotland are completely separate entities? < 1318894141 908995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are? < 1318894145 993011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1318894156 70668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any common ancestry? < 1318894165 793173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not AFAIK. < 1318894291 998274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're unrelated. < 1318894612 630402 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE88D59.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318894928 3452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You should debug my code. < 1318895031 716979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that word, "should". < 1318895062 906920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :enslaving civilizations. < 1318895113 865180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1318895115 542655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enslivilisations. < 1318895143 762496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would debug your code if I didn't have this disability preventing me from doing any kind of useful work. < 1318895161 296955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's called being a teenager HAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1318895262 595799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, i'm still a teenager? < 1318895317 592942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yep < 1318895362 982103 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :going on thirtytwoteen... < 1318895375 375391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, you're a mathematician. < 1318895392 132041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're really old, man. < 1318895433 240080 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ykgomlbihywmcaidttacrt < 1318895440 937563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1318895456 780809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's oldspeak. < 1318895467 806474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll translate, I know a little more of the ways of the old than you. < 1318895471 536786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kids get off my lawn before i hit you with my cane and i don't think that anyone can read this. < 1318895491 870246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit oerjan. < 1318895508 726122 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i suppose i should have given you a chance. < 1318895529 445255 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's that word again. < 1318895579 539922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D