is a MediaWiki tag that's equivalent to HTML 
 plus a partial 
< 1318707683 39448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you do that and also change attributes
< 1318707685 179891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the pre
< 1318707688 306292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't
< 1318707691 781077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said MediaWiki made sense
< 1318707693 167711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hate MediaWiki
< 1318707694 172619 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1318707698 384206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, it looks nice in IE
< 1318707714 255691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: leading spaces followed by {{ do _not_ produce a pre.
< 1318707738 524512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use a different block element and give it styling that makes it equivalent to a pre
< 1318707744 313442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since any /// program not containing <code>/</code> or <code>\</code> is trivially a quine, here is one containing ''only'' <code>/</code> and <code>\</code>.
< 1318707744 460580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {{div|_=style="word-wrap: break-word"|text=/\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\//
< 1318707744 460817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\//
< 1318707747 445113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\//
< 1318707752 726644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\\\/\\////\//\//\/\/\/\\\\/\\//\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\/\\\\////\//\//\/\/\/\\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\\\\\\\\////\/\/\}}
< 1318707752 890455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :style="white-space:preserve", IIRC
< 1318707755 634208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEDIAWIKI
< 1318707757 606314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD YOU PRODUCE THAT MARKUP
< 1318707759 744308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MAKE NO SENSE
< 1318707763 912868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but you can't put that in common.css :P
< 1318707772 795077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues trying to make this work

< 1318707797 189765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, I'm on the latest firefox, too
< 1318707835 49248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads mozilla docs

< 1318707900 820423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put a zero-width space between each character, then they all are potential wrapping-points. Elegant! (Assuming the problem is that "it's only one word" thing. I can't really be bothered to read full context.)
< 1318707916 707673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I think I've fixed it
< 1318707921 639539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that breaks copying :P
< 1318707968 267749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok can you force reload that page
< 1318707977 530422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1318707985 140902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Slashes&oldid=24876#Quine
< 1318707986 329359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work?
< 1318708132 848985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although the right margin of the box is strangely larger than usual
< 1318708160 587228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How much larger?
< 1318708225 474316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 2.5 times the left margin, i think
< 1318708258 181273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does it matter?
< 1318708260 196631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses IE.
< 1318708261 959372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1318708267 599970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1318708268 934950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also it's just balancing out since I removed the : before it.
< 1318708273 347219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So you're happy with this?
< 1318708320 884482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so bad, and it still copies as one line
< 1318708341 970436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It could be fixed with an IE-specific stylesheet, most likely.
< 1318708342 994799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw there's another copy on the Quine page :P
< 1318708347 152490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh.
< 1318708357 523696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And yeah, yeah, but I'm about to fix 'em all:
< 1318708359 732865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you add "pre { word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap }" to common.css, please?
< 1318708380 310227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that's a really major change
< 1318708385 742376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No it's not.
< 1318708394 727112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, because the whole point of pre is that it doesn't break lines
< 1318708396 51642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It just wraps overly-long lines visually (in Chrome, IE, Firefox).
< 1318708403 517359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the whole point of pre is that it preserves whitespace.
< 1318708405 706478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, copying works the same way.
< 1318708410 57141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly, and that can completely change the meaning of programs
< 1318708420 760529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does not do any hard breaking.
< 1318708442 864565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, the alternative is a horizontal scrollbar on the pre element, which has far more problems.
< 1318708445 507797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still does visual breaking, though, which makes programs much harder to read
< 1318708456 319552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just a horizontal scrollbar on the page? a pre doesn't widen the page to its own width
< 1318708462 498228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd just be useful for scrolling pres
< 1318708468 806645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That breaks the design; see [[MediaWiki talk:Common.css]].
< 1318708477 27541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nothing is harder to read than a horizontal scrollbar; that's why oerjan explicitly did hacks to make it wrap for his Slashes quine.
< 1318708486 104202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Slashes /does/ change behaviour on newlines.
< 1318708555 825211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see perhaps wrapping individual programs visually, if people can guess that the line breaks aren't actual newlines
< 1318708626 489169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've already made changes to add horizontal scrollbars to two examples, and now one to do this new method to Slashes; if you won't add it, I'll just have to keep adding it to the examples I come across /shrug
< 1318708643 976884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I really very much doubt anyone is confused by wrapping; every programmer's editor I know of defaults to it.
< 1318708674 819517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emacs notifies about it in the margin, but vi and vim don't.)
< 1318708687 533974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor does Notepad with word-wrapping on (admittedly not the default, but I don't know of anyone who uses it for programming and doesn't turn it on.))
< 1318708694 552409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.))/).)/
< 1318708707 607768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kate goes and puts eight characters of hatching at the start of an overwrapped line
< 1318708725 749426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit also wraps silently by default.
< 1318708731 968667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually find vim's behaviour pretty confusing there
< 1318708744 911623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I change gedit's behaviour there quite a lot, /because/ it's so misleading
< 1318708750 866491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's obvious _you_ find it confusing.
< 1318708761 971718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly most other programmers don't.
< 1318708774 694071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often turn wrapping off for the buffer in Emacs in order to make lines line up correctly
< 1318708785 682713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: think of it this way: suppose someone writes a Funge-98 program that's wider than the page
< 1318708791 641783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would wrapping that make any sense at all?
< 1318708800 188496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a horizontal scrollbar would be /significantly/ better than wrapping
< 1318708813 346956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can be overriden on a per-pre basis.
< 1318708828 59104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping makes far, far more sense as a default; see: all the changes I've made so far.
< 1318708859 36951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want it to wrap, then why use 
 rather than ? preservation of horizontal whitespace?
< 1318708874 51963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw User:Nthern/Archive is one page which contains code which is both wide enough to give a scrollbar if that's the default, and tall enough to make it awful to use
< 1318708885 926856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  looks totally different to 
, and doesn't preserve newlines, duplicated whitespace, doesn't turn off wiki markup, blah blah blah.
< 1318708900 340322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: turns off wiki markup
< 1318708911 743035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need a separate tag for "preserve horizontal whitespace"
< 1318708935 764819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So? It has all the other disadvantages listed.
< 1318708941 184952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also looks really bad multi-line.
< 1318708948 430217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you even meant to make a  multiline? It's an inline element by default.
< 1318708969 122170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're suggesting making 
 act like not a 
< 1318708976 249759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whatever; you're within rights to annoy everyone else on the wiki because of a personal dislike of the saner behaviour.
< 1318709010 487708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1318709048 99886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :....................
< 1318709083 530692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm within my rights to not arbitrarily change the meaning of a well known HTML and wiki tag?
< 1318709107 297404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Note the part where I dropped it because you're being unreasonable and it was rapidly heading towards a flamewar.
< 1318709125 223733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough; the attempt to drop it looked rather like egging on instead, anwyay
< 1318709128 705118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway
< 1318709170 115872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, this is egging on: When are you going to make 
s show tabs as eight spaces?
< 1318709180 723193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do already, don't they?
< 1318709182 200190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests

< 1318709202 177012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nope.
< 1318709206 812340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Four spaces in every browser since forever.
< 1318709213 112878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2373#comic
< 1318709231 589796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was _far_ longer ago than i thought)
< 1318709259 707932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Firefox renders it as eight in the edit box, which makes sense
< 1318709264 593530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eight on the page too
< 1318709275 752865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's certainly not what older Firefoxes did
< 1318709281 401071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox
< 1318709286 762803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those lines line up in your browser?
< 1318709292 363288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm using an old Firefox (3.6.something)
< 1318709298 948913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not old
< 1318709308 306334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's four versions out of date!
< 1318709309 19347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's a Linux thing; certainly they've never done that on Windows or OS X
< 1318709351 694656 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh
< 1318709359 868898 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox needs to stop going lightspeed with version numbering
< 1318709420 523933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to infinity and beyond!
< 1318709426 781287 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 3.0 after how many years?
< 1318709428 756728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *aleph-null
< 1318709466 497657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I threatened to just double AceHack's version number with every release
< 1318709577 650762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just tested Chromium and Epiphany on Linux; both have tab=8
< 1318709583 344454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I bet it's a Linux thing; certainly they've never done that on Windows or OS X
< 1318709609 215285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests IE6

< 1318709657 707766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, line up in IE6 too
< 1318709666 788081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in Firefox 10 for Mac (I just asked a friend to test that)
< 1318709688 687651 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooner or later firefox is going to start skipping every other major version number
< 1318709698 1562 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wha-
< 1318709698 747750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: admittedly I was running IE6 on Linux, but I doubt it special-cases it
< 1318709712 262414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that are totally not completely boring at this point: Firefox versioning rants
< 1318709712 751654 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie6 on linux? .-.
< 1318709716 372528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above sentence comes from "book of lies".
< 1318709732 769796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: well, I have to do cross-browser testing /somehow/
< 1318709741 171251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Wine's quite good nowadays, right? no reason you can't run IE6 in it
< 1318709752 267694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess there was some movement to change it for some reason or another, but I am completely certain that a few years ago on a Mac tabs renderd as four spaces in browsers
< 1318709759 270388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it crashed twice during startup, but still managed to load somehow
< 1318709773 460921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also the default of a twenty year old editor, for what that's worth)
< 1318709780 477490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one?
< 1318709815 455064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit
< 1318709838 568685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you're going to counter this with "people have been living a lie for a very long time" so don't bother.
< 1318709839 774814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines up in IE 8 fwiw
< 1318709928 284713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, I'm just going to take it as a data poitn
< 1318709929 763299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point
< 1318709950 822326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I think tabs-as-four-spaces might be a /Mac OS/ default in general (it certainly is an OS X default)
< 1318709958 226077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it might be twenty-five years old
< 1318709962 669539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1318709964 156944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirty-five
< 1318709981 783760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm
< 1318709982 440782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twouldn't be the first time Mac OS were nonstandard
< 1318709983 265226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twenty-seven
< 1318709995 490941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can completely believe that it was using a different tab size to the rest of the universe
< 1318709999 765510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was using a different newline too
< 1318710002 932859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how can it be standard, when I'm sure terminal control for tabs was available back then?
< 1318710008 540200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it predates Windows
< 1318710008 708888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more important for interoperability
< 1318710021 896220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it predates desktop computers by being the first; there's not really much "standard" to compare to
< 1318710023 375702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a standard default; tab size has been customizable since typewriters
< 1318710038 265524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because their intended purpose is for writing tables efficiently
< 1318710041 58678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people have been wrong for a very, very long time, then
< 1318710044 565309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which, you need tab stops
< 1318710064 869759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for another data point, QBasic defaults to tab=14, as do many other basic impls, I think
< 1318710073 374370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the columns are actually wide enough to fit data in
< 1318710080 527886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the use of tabs for indentation is rather more recent
< 1318710097 797445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, what?
< 1318710103 933176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tabs for indentation dates back to at /least/ the original Unix sources
< 1318710123 117977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: typewriters are older than UNIX, aren't they?
< 1318710132 889335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you said that after talking about QBasic
< 1318710160 336704 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabs for indentation in UNIX is courtesy of the first UNIX display being a teletypewriter.
< 1318710279 237303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sure it dates back to at least Multics
< 1318710280 754152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably further
< 1318710394 165969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's an artifact of typewriter design, though.
< 1318710428 440751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, of course it dates back further.
< 1318710444 769325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a more reasonable artifact than deciding to hammer the space key a lot, and then going "ooh, we should build this into the editor".
< 1318710457 602509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But yes, people wrote code on typewriters a lot, didn't they?
< 1318710469 146669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a norwegian, i am disappointed by the lack of whales in http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2393#comic
< 1318710490 960849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, what else would you write Fortran on in 1957? Surely people didn't publish punchcards when they shared code. Although admittedly probably they didn't share code much.
< 1318710511 360397 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true.
< 1318710549 454639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, until the invention of the glass teletype, any interactive input to a computer was going to be with a typewriter.
< 1318710549 875185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a pneumatic-tube-based punchcard-github.
< 1318710575 868967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pneumatic tubes are so cool.
< 1318710586 924334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My first exposure to them was Grim Fandango, which is odd in retrospect.)
< 1318710595 697711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what was the original application for teletypewriters, before they were used as computer terminals?
< 1318710596 57592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The exposure, I mean. Not the game. That was odd at the time too.)
< 1318710603 672059 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you study them at school or something
< 1318710604 692455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of substitute for telegrams?
< 1318710608 821716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: communication
< 1318710620 529886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/WACsOperateTeletype.jpg
< 1318710622 900427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd type at one end and it'd print at the other end?
< 1318710626 372430 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1318710628 270235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typos would be a little hard to  notice
< 1318710631 453910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover: I played Grim Fandango at a rather early age.
< 1318710636 71069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure it printed locally too.
< 1318710674 832810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it wasn't a substitute for telegrams, it was telegrams. :)
< 1318710683 789581 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be a tube-driven cigarette sales system in our supermarket (and many others) -- you punch a button on a big table to indicate the brand, and after a moment a box pops out on the grocery-conveyor-belt. But it's been "temporarily broken" more often than not lately, and I have a feeling they're trying to give it up.
< 1318710703 979348 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318710705 460948 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you actually *did* study pneumatics at school?
< 1318710716 447201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't EVERYONE???
< 1318710731 488004 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1318710758 249525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you mentioned it as being an available choice or something.
< 1318710833 569730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a friend once told a story about a hospital, where the blood bags were delivered using a series of tubes, and they had a habit of breaking. That's... quite an awkwardly cleanable mess.
< 1318710845 321001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, it was how telegrams were implemented? I assumed they were morse code, for some reason
< 1318710889 369176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A telegraph message sent by an electrical telegraph operator or telegrapher using Morse code (or a printing telegraph operator using plain text) was known as a telegram. A cablegram (see cablegram) was a message sent by a submarine telegraph cable,[1] often shortened to a cable or a wire. Later, a Telex was a message sent by a Telex network, a switched network of teleprinters similar to a telephone network.
< 1318710896 231593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :teleprinters being ttys
< 1318710910 802319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1318710919 292494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the word "tty" isn't used with its original meaning any more
< 1318710921 606206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hasn't been for decades
< 1318710922 881608 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A telegram is pretty much any form of remote signalling, especially ones sending directly over the wire like a Morse keyer would.
< 1318710943 194820 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A teletypewriter messaging scheme could be used for telegrams, as could More code.
< 1318710957 918625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think telegrams still theoretically exist, although I forget who's responsible for delivering them
< 1318710962 79477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's the post service
< 1318710973 398844 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the Telex network also still theoretically exist?
< 1318711014 49262 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely.
< 1318711016 599134 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Telex is still in operation, but has been mostly superseded by fax, email, and SWIFT, although radiotelex (telex via HF radio) is still used in the maritime industry and is a required element of the GMDSS" -- apparently, if you can trust Wikipedia. And if you can't trust Wikipedia, what *can* you trust?
< 1318711031 65931 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except W|A, of course.)
< 1318711511 4338 :ive!~nn@189.179.247.113 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318711516 678307 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the sunrise/sunset displayed in Astrolog a few minutes off from the official sunrise/sunset? Solar noon appears to be correct, though.
< 1318711730 459209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you live right in the middle of your timezone?
< 1318711735 235196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you already asked that?
< 1318711737 10587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the exact same latitude?
< 1318711822 96506 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318711900 161837 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have computed solar noon using different programs, and at least at 0N 0E the times of solar noon appear to correspond with the start of the tenth house in some systems (including Equal (MC)) and with the times displayed on the rising/setting charts. But rise/set mismatch; if I set the ayanamsa to -3.6 it works but the ayanamsa has nothing to do with sunrise/sunset, so why does it do that?
< 1318711926 857160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: could it be difference between center and edge of sun?
< 1318711997 649433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, maybe. I know there are different sunrise/sunset values, such as official, nautical, civil; but the ones shown by default in the rising/setting chart in Astrolog match none of those.
< 1318712034 492089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, Swiss Ephemeris is probably better; I read its documentation and it can calculate rise/set with nautical twilight, and civil twilight, and so on.
< 1318712067 438615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why do you want to use Astrolog, anyway?
< 1318712070 401294 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make the program that uses Swiss Ephemeris; unlike Astrolog, it is compatible with GNU GPL so it is properly Free software/open source software.
< 1318712093 445909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably even include better search functions.
< 1318712215 968450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as far as I can tell, Astrolog has no option to set the zoom level for the solar system view.
< 1318712851 972096 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318713163 170731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other features I would like to have (and might implement) are:
< 1318713214 47950 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Order of a pair of objects with an aspect is relevant (except Conjunct and Opposite).
< 1318713250 378668 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Set the zero point of the zodiac such that a specific object is fixed at zero.
< 1318713287 527279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to automatically plot things with exposure, instead of stepping manually.
< 1318713324 695363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Search function for aspects and other things.
< 1318713366 759591 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* In transit search, specify number of divisions of the circle; and use any display of angles (zodiac names, hours/minutes, or degrees)
< 1318713409 224740 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Use of other calendar systems.
< 1318713463 49760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to set orb values based on diameters of objects.
< 1318713505 715875 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Barycentric and astrometic modes.
< 1318713524 46391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to use true positions or apparent positions.
< 1318713588 418027 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Can switch on/off precession, nutation, gravitational deflection, aberration of light, etc.
< 1318713608 14618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Can use radians for angular measurement.
< 1318713661 766287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, so a digon is like an eyelid. :D
< 1318713671 316733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Four-house system: rise, solar noon, set, and midnight.
< 1318713675 129814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big eyelid on a spherical eye alien.
< 1318713710 463278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to plot any set of variables on a calendar, graph, or text chart.
< 1318713730 394587 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to display the IAU zodiac.
< 1318713751 446480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, it's the eyelid, but the surface of the eye itself.
< 1318713755 849409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not the eyelid
< 1318713759 637327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how did bigons become a topic of discussion.
< 1318713827 278337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about it earlier.
< 1318713833 111019 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replying to something fizzie said.
< 1318713923 321777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right
< 1318713941 530867 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ability to toggle any of the outer rings on the horoscope (Astrolog has three and you cannot change them).
< 1318714026 142710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good enough? However, there are some features I intend to purposely omit, such as the interpretation mode of Astrolog.
< 1318714086 913308 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere#Eleven_properties_of_the_sphere
< 1318714094 11506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read this as "Elven properties of the sphere"
< 1318714101 225658 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1318714102 56619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody elves.
< 1318714271 906011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elven harmony of the spheres
< 1318714307 484860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great cuicuboctahedron
< 1318714316 869052 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good polyhedron or best polyhedron?
< 1318714327 123041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*great *greatest
< 1318714337 946252 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cubicuboctahedron
< 1318714340 569159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the cuboctahedron is.
< 1318714380 660394 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :booooring.
< 1318714387 605655 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great Cubicuboctahedron in the Sky, we beseech you.
< 1318714406 348590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, cuboctahedrons are the best.
< 1318714471 447802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noncovex great rhombicuboctahedron is pretty cool guy too.
< 1318714486 377060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a rhombicubicuboctahedron?
< 1318714490 198813 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... probably doesn't make sense.
< 1318714533 624884 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318714537 417692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a rhombiChewbaccahedron?
< 1318714558 877646 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good day!
< 1318714623 154686 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone active?
< 1318714645 84932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I live a very sedentary lifestyle.
< 1318714663 646370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in fact an IRC zombie.
< 1318714686 974156 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1318714706 720058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy has decayed more.
< 1318714731 188561 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh OK then
< 1318714775 308246 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really just wanted to ask whether anyone has seen my esolang, Ziim, which I posted yesterday, and what the first impression was
< 1318714887 19854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of arrows
< 1318714905 462169 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the idea :-p
< 1318714962 174194 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: I can see that there a lot of points to point out.
< 1318715014 308777 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a 2D dataflow language of osrts.
< 1318715017 139915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sorts
< 1318715029 776630 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1318715034 890551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that goes left to right, it seems.
< 1318715049 370061 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left to right? It goes all over the place :)
< 1318715060 257825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if you reverse the direction of the arrows they can have different meanings.
< 1318715060 404405 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conjecture that it’s harder to program in than Malbolge
< 1318715072 489694 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse yes, rotate no
< 1318715086 649345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... didn't mention rotation.
< 1318715094 927740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge isn't that hard to code in. OK so it is.
< 1318715098 568476 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you mentioned left to right :)
< 1318715125 266608 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that Malbolge is constantly mentioned as an example of a hard-to-program-in language. There are loads on the wiki that are harder than Malbolge :)
< 1318715126 581995 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right there's an inherent meaning to left and right. specifically in label vs. concat
< 1318715127 785135 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a 45 degrees rotation
< 1318715165 839806 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I know, I know, you can’t just rotate a whole program 45° :)
< 1318715178 324284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi, no, you misunderstand.
< 1318715188 167442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: Pah, only if you're restrained to textual file formats.
< 1318715195 503408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy comes from a dimension where the quantum of angular motion is 90°.
< 1318715199 781109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes a screenshot of program, prints it out, puts on wooden table, photographs, rotates photograph.

< 1318715221 577133 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any programming lang with rotations and rotation-resistant elements?
< 1318715225 749574 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't forget to scan it and then use an image to text translator program.
< 1318715227 759390 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No image editing program available, eh? :)
< 1318715230 27811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Zwaarddijk spoke.
< 1318715239 319600 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :been busy recently
< 1318715245 719096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: It was an old TDWTF reference. I probably messed it up though.
< 1318715252 566317 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Yes, Ziim and Funciton (mine :-p)
< 1318715256 848145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Well, lots of CAs are rotation-invariant.
< 1318715268 473094 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah, CAs, forgot about those
< 1318715273 79722 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs?
< 1318715273 569137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: or is the label vs concat distinction a before and after one rather than whether the arrows are pointing left or right?
< 1318715276 891015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Cellular automata.
< 1318715279 851420 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, k
< 1318715281 571635 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1318715284 69967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "s" is silent and invisible.)
< 1318715287 690125 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi, what was that language called?
< 1318715289 99441 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aura?"
< 1318715289 859601 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It’s determined by the relative angles
< 1318715291 435698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem that a square greed of arrows doesn't really support an invertible 45 degree symmetry operation
< 1318715295 279552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grid
< 1318715300 968914 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1318715308 997179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the s killed the on and all that's left is a mangled heap of a
< 1318715314 749504 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip on
< 1318715315 111 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Correct... unfortunately
< 1318715315 571739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you just increase the spacing a bit, it should work
< 1318715317 221489 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1318715354 850526 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to apply for adminship on the wiki?
< 1318715372 893104 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would really like to add some CSS rules and make some articles (especially tables) more readable
< 1318715387 604744 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s really annoying to have to add them to every single table cell...
< 1318715449 910091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: backflip has two different kind of elements that might be thought of as rotating, also you can make a combined structure which acts as a rotation-resistant mirror
< 1318715492 99587 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I as more thinking like coding with two layers
< 1318715497 329152 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one which rotates, and one which stays put
< 1318715517 127336 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone of you an admin on the wiki and could add some CSS rules for me perhaps?
< 1318715533 565931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: ais523 is
< 1318715538 827448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's away right now though
< 1318715564 465781 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these are indistinguishable by the 'head' that reads the code - but the thing that rotates parts of the code does distinguish them
< 1318715584 588435 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, only 7 admins
< 1318715594 705445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if esowiki was converted to a hackiki :)
< 1318715605 794947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :less spambots
< 1318715617 162818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more awesome.
< 1318715624 71973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: There's more admins than there are active editors. :p
< 1318715629 8915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I do like the mediawiki look and feel.
< 1318715629 828999 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but spambots are good
< 1318715631 967801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, a poll was held, popular opinion was in favour, and precisely nothing happened.
< 1318715637 915002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No it wasn't.
< 1318715647 201353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular opinion was in favour of Gregor making an adjacent Hackiki so we could all ignore it.
< 1318715648 209378 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn’t planning on changing the MediaWiki look and feel
< 1318715658 749377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: right this is unrelated.
< 1318715660 559902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to that.
< 1318715673 379323 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1318715678 994593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I brought up hackiki because I believe it would allow you to do precisely what you want to do without an admin.
< 1318715687 845232 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...?)
< 1318715703 131691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any sane Hackiki configuration would allow you embed site-wide arbitrary CSS.
< 1318715707 954896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a big ol' security hole.
< 1318715708 328837 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having restrictions on users would also allow me to do it :-p
< 1318715722 293802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well wouldn't it be local to a page though?
< 1318715732 958015 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*couldn't
< 1318715738 948849 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if I could edit MediaWiki:Common.css
< 1318715741 184760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: It'd also let you create massive security holes
< 1318715768 655750 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that it gives users the ability to make drastic changes to the entire site, which would be problematic
< 1318715792 336585 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see a spambot replace the entirety of mediawiki:common.css with compliments
< 1318715794 755585 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But honestly, thinking that “let’s completely lock them out” is the only alternative solution is really dumb
< 1318715812 36609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't lock them out, it lets sysops edit them :p
< 1318715819 494088 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That’s what I’m saying
< 1318715822 880292 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It locks everyone else out. Completely
< 1318715852 625491 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anyway
< 1318715855 383654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how completely is completely
< 1318715859 762417 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do I best contact someone about adminship?
< 1318715870 372010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email Graue
< 1318715870 868170 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ways to pester people who can edit the page to make the edits you want
< 1318715873 766056 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: addr?
< 1318715883 720674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: graue@oceanbase.org; didn't you already do that, though?
< 1318715904 290625 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I did, but there’s nothing in my Sent folder, and I had no address of him in my address book, so I guess not
< 1318716124 363067 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318716135 740115 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not agree to convert esolang wiki to Hackiki; I do agree to make up a seperate esolang wiki which is Hackiki, so that you have both. And allow the Hackiki programs to have read access to the Mediawiki installation.
< 1318716185 658590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Hackiki, any user can add skins, add-ins, new commands, and more.
< 1318716199 664691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Hackiki /does/ allow people to create skins?
< 1318716303 704906 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can’t we just be more liberal in giving adminship :( I mean it’s not like everyone’s going to jump in and kill everything
< 1318716327 367487 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I’m sounding pushy :p I’m just frustrated with this
< 1318716372 453156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: Well, only one person has the authority to do it in the first place, software-wise.
< 1318716420 259599 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know...
< 1318716430 920966 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m amazed more people aren’t frustrated about it as I am
< 1318716433 189448 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on Wikipedia
< 1318716461 661638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join RationalWiki— wait, I think they changed that because it turns out that doing that is stupid.
< 1318716509 733337 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing what? I haven’t even suggested anything specific :)
< 1318716527 601062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say templates are the best way to go if you're tired of entering repetitive style info.
< 1318716557 955326 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t see how that can help styling tables. You’d still need to add the template for every cell.
< 1318716578 445572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: My point was, if you want more liberalisation of the adminshipness, there's only one person to go to about it.
< 1318716587 81438 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I know
< 1318716590 392774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks we're fine with the set of admins we have; ais523 is active here, and all the spam gets cleaned up rapidly.

< 1318716614 104026 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old “we have enough admins therefore we shouldn’t have any more” argument?
< 1318716630 801040 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case it wasn’t clear, I don’t understand that argument; it makes no sense)
< 1318716674 713260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found article in Wikipedia about digital sundial.
< 1318716693 373752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: "We have enough /active/ admins" makes perfect sense.
< 1318716702 337529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :having only one inactive admin/op/whatever is awful though.
< 1318716705 787009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: I don't think we need more, so why have more?
< 1318716709 34778 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: why?
< 1318716720 495671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strictly more load for Graue to add them, so it's obviously very slightly inferior at the very least
< 1318716739 551681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the admins are active and numerous enough to handle current demands then there's no need for more.
< 1318716741 962847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki allows users to create whatever program they want, and that can include skins too
< 1318716743 811153 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you mean because he need to go in and flip a switch?
< 1318716746 829192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making more people admin carries the risk of making the wrong people admin
< 1318716749 209344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: I said slightly
< 1318716765 430373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: if the admin workload is fully accounted for, then adding more admins doesn't benefit anything, and it's a slight amount of work for Graue to add them
< 1318716773 691059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the situation is at /least/ very slightly inferior
< 1318716778 18839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably moreso, because  and making more people admin carries the risk of making the wrong people admin
< 1318716793 552218 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ability to add styling rules doesn’t benefit anything? Are you sure you know what you’re saying there?
< 1318716824 973771 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :“making the wrong people admin” — what’s the worst that can happen? That you have to de-admin them back
< 1318716844 381456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: Well, you haven't told us what rules you want yet.
< 1318716849 515020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, they could execute a major security exploit.
< 1318716863 794589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one very common browser lets CSS execute arbitrary JS, I believe; almost certainly more than that.
< 1318716874 112028 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean there’s a known security vulnerability that admins can exploit?
< 1318716874 676834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can't admins edit .js files anyway?
< 1318716882 415150 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see
< 1318716883 703503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: yep, that's why you don't make non-trustable people admins
< 1318716885 484379 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they can
< 1318716891 447302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you have a process
< 1318716894 88422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are conservative about it
< 1318716900 512053 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where’s the process in esolangs wiki? :-p
< 1318716920 639920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : At least one very common browser lets CSS execute arbitrary JS, I believe; almost certainly more than that.
< 1318716927 360090 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, like I said before, the biggest mistake is to have an all-or-nothing; either you can do everything (including dangerous) or almost nothing
< 1318716928 126032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, MW lets you edit the site-wide JS.
< 1318716936 833549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: all the people who are admins are community elders, and the workload is handled, so we don't really need a process :)
< 1318716944 637936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can hijack people's accounts with it easily enough.
< 1318716965 578120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how almost nothing is almost nothing
< 1318716975 574153 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With all due respect, the workload is clearly not handled; there are still no styling rules for anything, most notably tables :)
< 1318716991 499766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: well, have you asked anyone to add them? there is a table styling rule, btw
< 1318716999 519440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would make the best wiki admin.

< 1318716999 805461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ld633/what_is_something_that_never_fails_to_blow_your/c2rr33b
< 1318717008 928199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fellow pen dissector"!
< 1318717019 58968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do absolutely nothing once admin.
< 1318717027 40529 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just asked who’s an admin and the answer was “nobody who’s active”
< 1318717056 128507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: on /IRC/
< 1318717065 518115 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so who do I ask?
< 1318717073 12450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try keymaker, but I'd just put it on a relevant talk page
< 1318717081 447639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they exist, after all :)
< 1318717143 617475 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I spent hours on designing these rules only to have the request ignored or rejected, I’ll be really upset
< 1318717164 752256 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I’m sure would you)
< 1318717166 39034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: as opposed to hours designing them only to have another admin revert because they would have rejected a request?
< 1318717177 40973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :being an admin doesn't stop consensus from mattering :-)
< 1318717196 209004 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But being an admin allows me to demonstrate the CSS :-p
< 1318717235 570804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: people can add CSS rules with User:foo/.css; an admin would do that before rejecting the request
< 1318717266 457166 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know... fine, I’ll add some rules there
< 1318717304 604063 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION requests guidance from the Great Cubicuboctahedron on the matter. 

< 1318717333 372067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Great Cubicuboctahedron spake, "fuck thou."
< 1318717347 673312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor CakeProphet.
< 1318717362 123851 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it’s not working... is there a setting I need to set to enable it?
< 1318717377 226393 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Great Cubicuboctahedron is a very apathetic godhead.
< 1318717406 275429 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the
< 1318717428 375818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: I'm pretty sure you have to set a setting to make it work
< 1318717435 858825 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_cubicuboctahedron.png  what is this blasphemy.
< 1318717438 816583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: oh, wait, did you clear your cache?
< 1318717443 342756 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1318717450 256710 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is forbidden to depict his likeness in an inferior 2D projection.
< 1318717455 436521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: huh
< 1318717457 592004 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m not doing anything differently from Wikipedia, where it works :-p
< 1318717467 689905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :his glory must be beheld on all three axes.
< 1318717468 191023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe our mediawiki version is too old
< 1318717488 947201 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a great cubicuboctahedron is higher than 3D isn't it?
< 1318717489 707899 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can’t find a relevant option
< 1318717506 494092 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that name sounds like someone was high when they came up with it
< 1318717523 559126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: not sure, then
< 1318717524 961250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: no it's a polyhedron
< 1318717528 182340 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus 3-dimensional.
< 1318717534 400035 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1318717535 901952 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can’t do it :(
< 1318717542 877296 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can do it offline, but I can’t demonstrate it
< 1318717544 925915 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you said inferior 2D projection I was thinking it was 4 or 5D
< 1318717551 575116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though perhaps the nonconvex great rhombicuboctahedron is a greater deity.
< 1318717553 779828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: admins can, by temporarily setting the CSS
< 1318717556 119364 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany, -hedron is exclusively 3D.
< 1318717558 94874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then reverting it if they don't like it
< 1318717573 727176 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa
< 1318717575 504825 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the wiki just went down? o.O
< 1318717576 580881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-choron is the proposed 4D equivalent, but nobody really uses it.
< 1318717577 579349 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is with these weird names
< 1318717582 535257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then -choron is 4D I believe. a specific kind of 4D shape.
< 1318717586 978810 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombicubichoron!
< 1318717587 314144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-tope is the general form.
< 1318717617 246581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: this is "advanced" mathematics I don't know what you were expecting...
< 1318717619 639054 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, no, -choron is Greek for 'room', since polychora are formed from 3D shapes fitted together.
< 1318717621 383792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: not for me
< 1318717621 530440 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/P2-A5-P3.gif all hail
< 1318717640 781344 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Could you try adding CSS for yourself to see if it works for you?
< 1318717646 465488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1318717649 298014 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks
< 1318717669 217194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: are you sure you're using monobook? :-P
< 1318717675 705809 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just checked
< 1318717679 92511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : aw
< 1318717684 824719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: Do you have a link to a .nice?
< 1318717688 938111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me some of my favourite manifolds are 3D.
< 1318717689 546751 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Sclipting
< 1318717707 206146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi, is that the racist version of­— OK it is.
< 1318717714 364407 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL :-D
< 1318717714 511080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its expanding and contracting form greatly inspires me with divine fervor.
< 1318717740 363898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi: hmm, it doesn't seem to work here either, but I'm not sure I cleared the cache right
< 1318717744 479143 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_e
< 1318717750 807512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e_o
< 1318717752 614058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: your eye looks broken
< 1318717754 422674 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to reduce bytes not characters, but sure, that's a fine goal too.
< 1318717756 891260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: one of them is floating
< 1318717760 18819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e_i_e_i_o
< 1318717792 870490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: spheres are the best manifold of  course.
< 1318717804 885652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies
< 1318717807 684249 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well that's 2-D technically.
< 1318717808 846472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1318717823 881144 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is a 2-sphere considered 3D? I'm not sure how that works.
< 1318717837 285909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's 3D
< 1318717843 843086 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1318717848 428781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 2D manifold, normally embedded in 3D; and I should have said 'embedded in 3D' instead.
< 1318717848 591643 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphere is 3D isn't it .-.
< 1318717857 173443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. right.
< 1318717860 164089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No spheres are ten-dimensional. I read it in a book.
< 1318717865 753937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany, erm, it's kind of complicated.
< 1318717873 252646 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wahhh
< 1318717877 953265 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1318717886 655901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: a ball is the inside of a sphere, the sphere is the surface. a n-sphere is the surface of a (n+1)-ball.
< 1318717887 46600 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't an infinite dimensional hypercube a sphere?
< 1318717895 4567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sphere is normally taken to be the set of points at distance r from some point in R^3.
< 1318717896 486346 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has infinite points
< 1318717925 360788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inside of a sphere is a ball, but balls can be of any dimension.
< 1318717931 270876 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :“because it has infinite points”? You think anything with an infinite number of points is a sphere?
< 1318717936 211461 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1318717936 358208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they can be open or closed.
< 1318717937 362857 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1318717952 172347 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a cube with all the sides normalised they'd be infinite points all x distance away from the origin
< 1318717959 158581 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1318717963 524898 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's centered at the origin
< 1318717981 607188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In mathematical notation, an n-sphere would be the set of points at distance r from some point in R^(n+).
< 1318717988 261367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(n+1)
< 1318717990 543809 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what you mean by “normalised”. I’m not even sure what “infinite-dimensional” means :)
< 1318718049 643267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite dimensional is meaningful, but unfortunately it's too late at night for me to remember exactly what it means.
< 1318718051 124042 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :normalised being 1 unit from the centre o.o
< 1318718064 3731 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinite dimensional being infinite axises
< 1318718091 394362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think cubes work that way. Not very point would be 1 unit from a center.
< 1318718111 369214 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/very/every ?
< 1318718112 196582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, general spheres, no, but the difference is not terribly important.
< 1318718117 511815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: er, yes.
< 1318718120 759208 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean like the corner points
< 1318718124 652231 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not including the points on the sides
< 1318718127 670129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany, an infinite-dimensional hypercube is not in fact a sphere.
< 1318718145 698069 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... an infinite-dimensional hypercube, right?
< 1318718151 459301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1318718163 681098 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd have an infinite amount of points all x distance from the origin?
< 1318718170 764336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is reminding me of oklopol's infinite-dimensional four-in-a-row.
< 1318718172 336297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was beautiful.
< 1318718177 879482 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o
< 1318718183 561353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow nice.
< 1318718189 899049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o.
< 1318718200 111603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that oko has in fact studied topology, unlike everyone currently speaking.
< 1318718220 979675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't an infinite dimensional hypercube a sphere?
< 1318718222 956058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have done some /very extensive/ reading of Wikipedia in the past few hours thank you very much
< 1318718224 636915 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1318718225 863648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think he had at the time.
< 1318718227 661286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hypersphere_coord.PNG
< 1318718230 553388 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a topology lecture course at uni :-p
< 1318718234 40664 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am certified topowskkrokgloyggicall master.
< 1318718234 397911 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t remember any of it though
< 1318718236 341507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was when he was YOUNG AND FREE.
< 1318718245 175610 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.~.
< 1318718249 965588 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~.~
< 1318718254 741038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to study topology soon? Although I don't actually know how long I have to wait.
< 1318718260 111584 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :neh
< 1318718260 606891 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: but yeah again not every point on a hypercube is x distance from the center.
< 1318718276 61310 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to take more advanced math classes
< 1318718276 393814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so extending a hypercube to infinite dimensions doesn't change anything about that.
< 1318718289 884559 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense
< 1318718318 700298 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh effing hell, Cambridge doesn't do algebraic topology until third year.
< 1318718319 789618 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1318718463 77835 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: topology is a 4th year class at my school
< 1318718468 536898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely optional. I bet no one takes it.
< 1318718471 784452 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except math majors.
< 1318718472 964509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me.
< 1318718475 921012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(future me)
< 1318718512 863504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "Nobody would take an advanced maths course except maths majors"
< 1318718518 889414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a stunningly controversial statement.
< 1318718536 500201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I would expect some computer science majors as well.
< 1318718536 662324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking!
< 1318718540 937390 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they do take it.
< 1318718541 596230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cambridge.... why.... do you need... my photograph.....
< 1318718550 372261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my future self being an example.
< 1318718556 706763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, they need your phonograph.
< 1318718563 946530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, silly me.
< 1318718567 775373 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Cambridge?
< 1318718577 392146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /other/ Cambridge university.
< 1318718578 50814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The important one.
< 1318718580 541062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is there another?)
< 1318718582 18228 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrong one?
< 1318718587 687089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/u/U/
< 1318718615 842463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Cambridge in Massachusetts because the Americans have not heard of inventing place names.
< 1318718622 998874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well you cannot do algebraic topology until you have algebra, and topology...
< 1318718626 619562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't have a dab for Cambridge University.
< 1318718640 405937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, aren't MIT and Harvard there?
< 1318718649 811146 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, hence why I ask
< 1318718653 455217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it was actually named after the university, not the town.
< 1318718658 368849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure anybody calls those Cambridge.
< 1318718771 533213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1318718809 430432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattanooga,_Tennessee
< 1318718820 785361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does completely fucking up the native name count as inventing a place name?
< 1318718846 556632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You must be new to the US.
< 1318718933 494415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, I don't actually have any photographs of myself on my system.
< 1318718952 826408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can just give them a picture of Professor Moriarty? I'm sure nobody will notice.
< 1318718955 541768 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's rather a *lot* of silly, repeated place names in the US.
< 1318718980 137593 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: London, Texas.
< 1318719001 536190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not far from paris, i assume
< 1318719019 766129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several hundred miles.
< 1318719038 652289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Texas, Texas.
< 1318719062 480675 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, there is an Amerika in Germany.
< 1318719090 28366 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerika,_Saxony
< 1318719095 182206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retaliation, prepare for Germuny, Texas.
< 1318719113 738450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a germane conclusion
< 1318719121 242458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :University of Georgia is in Rome, Georgia.
< 1318719124 737775 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sadly, no such thing.
< 1318719130 707185 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is, however, Texas German.
< 1318719144 81445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nearly extinct dialect of German.
< 1318719146 762257 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Georgia is a whole nother matter :)
< 1318719159 846357 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Township,_Adams_County,_Pennsylvania
< 1318719170 656358 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Butts County, GA.
< 1318719207 736714 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain Samuel Butts (1777–1814), a hero of the Creek War
< 1318719214 297203 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you head out west you get a bunch of place names that are blatantly Spanish.
< 1318719220 101881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Georgia_(U.S._state)
< 1318719234 859641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. San Francisco
< 1318719276 965661 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these counties are bad
< 1318719360 387564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulloch county, bacon county, coffee county, crisp county, early county, effinham county, glascock county, liberty county, long county, peach county, quitman county,
< 1318719365 756304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good names.
< 1318719399 211973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :twiggs, towns, white (best name),
< 1318719416 195318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee and crisp bacon
< 1318719442 151448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The racial makeup of the county was 95.16% White, 2.17% Black or African American, 0.40% Native American, 0.51% Asian, 0.18% Pacific Islander, 0.51% from other races, and 1.07% from two or more races. 1.56% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
< 1318719447 771376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ White county
< 1318719451 389503 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :very accurate name.
< 1318719453 740802 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK request posted: http://esolangs.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Common.css
< 1318719566 805008 :Timwi!~timwi@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m really tempted to create a completely new skin for Wikipedia now. :)
< 1318719598 696427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, to replace Vector? :-)
< 1318719601 43114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hypersphere_coord.PNG
< 1318719609 304324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitive.
< 1318719743 160436 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-205-225-248.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1318719793 488686 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-205-225-248.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318720843 572130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1318720921 716740 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dude, my hometown is whiter than that.
< 1318720939 418083 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/town/county/
< 1318720946 317222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the town actually isn't.
< 1318720990 718327 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the county apparently isn't either.
< 1318721563 371198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, does your trackpad not actually have scrolling capabilities?
< 1318721635 37359 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized....
< 1318721658 10756 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit defs in Scala are pretty much called when a (static) type error occurs...
< 1318721673 553373 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda....
< 1318721674 117204 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^;
< 1318721682 494892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, Opportunity landed in *2004*.
< 1318721704 230634 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1318721723 356063 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-19.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is operating *way* beyond design.
< 1318721725 272488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder I don't remember its early years.
< 1318721751 432537 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also distinctly remember reading about Cassini and being annoyed that it wouldn't reach Saturn for ages.
< 1318721752 751632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well there might be.  i recall i long ago turned off some advanced settings because they kept annoying me when i triggered them accidentally
< 1318721773 780098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the normal thing is just to reserve the extreme right for vertical scrolling
< 1318721776 474253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and extreme bottom for horizontal
< 1318722215 328629 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318722224 775178 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1318722323 522556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm i tried setting that, and it does _not_ seem to work for the embedded scrollbars on the wiki (although a different autoscroll function which was already set does, but that one looks annoying to do precisely)
< 1318722354 13825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for scrolling the main browser window though
< 1318722364 176753 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1318722369 440401 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318722389 49315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh
< 1318722682 299088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been to a party
< 1318722707 950220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascist!
< 1318722740 113338 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Hexham
< 1318722782 842782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not been to a party in Hexham.
< 1318722798 698073 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1318722811 933359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither have i.  that Ngevd guy sure is weird.
< 1318723179 346278 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: everyone in Hexham is connected to elliott in some way