00:10:02 Or "about". 00:10:11 elliott: technically, every number has a precise value. 00:10:20 tswett: That doesn't mean we know it. 00:10:50 But the speed of light has a precise value because the units are defined that way. 00:12:43 tswett: Unlike most physical quantities, the speed of light has a perfectly known value. 00:13:10 It is 299,792,458 meters per second precisely. 00:13:47 (however, the meter and the second have never been *precisely* measured) 00:14:49 http://sprunge.us/CeBF 00:14:51 Finally. 00:17:48 elliott: You're writing qhc, eh? 00:18:12 Yes. Unless you can prove to me that the name qhc is actually being used in which case I'll be writing some other letter followed by hc. 00:24:28 Hey shachaf, write my parser for me. 00:24:45 elliott: You should use Trifecta! 00:25:02 elliott: sorear was the person who was talking about "QHC" a few years ago, but I think he's lost interest in Haskell. 00:25:05 So it's probably fine. 00:25:13 Isn't sorear the TAEB guy? 00:25:24 Among other things. 00:25:33 elliott: edwardk will be happy if you used trifecta to write your parser. 00:25:40 No, he's literally just the TAEB guy. And the only reason he's the TAEB guy is because ais is also the TAEB guy. 00:25:53 shachaf: I'm aiming for self-hosting with no language extensions. 00:26:08 shachaf: I don't feel like examining Trifecta's ten thousand dependencies to find out how hard it would be to make them standard. 00:26:35 elliott: But it's the best library ever. 00:27:03 shachaf: I'll rewrite the parser once I get around to writing my parser combinator library. 00:27:29 Great, so you can use trifecta until then. :-) 00:27:33 Will your library be better than trifecta? 00:29:11 shachaf: Yes. 00:29:15 Impossible. 00:29:21 shachaf: It's going to be based on the parsing-with-derivatives stuff. 00:29:29 We'll see. 00:29:34 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:29:45 With nice diagnostics (I was into this before trifecta came along, okay) and ~streaming~. 00:30:00 So it should be able to parse any CFG, the less ridiculous the more efficient. 00:30:06 Do those tildes form a little stream? 00:30:39 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:30:39 Yes. 00:30:40 elliott: You should improve the library for https://github.com/orenbenkiki/yamlreference/blob/master/Text/Yaml/Reference.bnf 00:31:04 But I don't like yaml. :( Also, I think I've seen that parser before. 00:31:12 Or at least something with the same syntax. 00:31:20 How can you not like YAML? 00:32:17 I'm a soulless shell of a human being. 00:32:22 It happens. 00:34:53 shachaf: Hey, what's a good interned string library. 00:36:02 edwardk wrote one 00:36:12 Does that mean it's good, or does that only work for Trifecta? 00:37:36 shachaf: It depends on at least type families. 00:37:40 I don't want to implement type families. 00:37:52 Type families are all the rage, man. 00:38:05 You're not going to restrict yourself to boring old Haskell 98, are you? 00:38:13 Two thousand and ten to start with. 00:38:13 You know who else restricted himself to Haskell 98? 00:38:16 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:38:23 I'm kind of planning a pure-type-system approach, so type families shouldn't be /that/ hard, really. 00:38:38 That's the spirit. 00:38:53 shachaf: ...but I still want to keep the compiler pure Haskell, so it can bootstrap nicely from other things. 00:39:26 elliott: Write a QHC-Haskell-to-plain-Haskell compiler. 00:39:44 shachaf: [asterisk]qhc 00:39:52 Don't asterisk me. 00:40:18 Alternatively, do the thing kmc always talks about where you compile to bytecode and then have a portable ANSI C bytecode interpreter. 00:43:05 shachaf: How is that better than having a portable C backend? 00:45:42 Are you going to be writing a portable C backend? 00:45:55 elliott: What's the state of qHc right now, anyway? Is it anything other than an AST? 00:46:06 shachaf: It's an AST, but in fairness I've only worked on it for like a day. 00:46:21 shachaf: Next up is a parser-sans-layout because I can't be bothered to deal with layout. 00:46:25 Kinds appear to be missing from what you have 00:46:25 After that, who knows. 00:46:33 Kinds aren't part of the language. 00:46:37 Well, they are, but not the AST. 00:47:45 I wrote a parser for Haskell, which also does not deal with layout. However it has a few other restrictions too. 00:48:59 elliott: Trifecta makes layout so easy! 00:49:06 shachaf: That is CHEATING. 00:49:18 elliott: Seems ideal for you, then. 00:49:30 shachaf: I'm offended. 00:49:40 "I resent that! I don't deny it, but I resent it!" 00:52:31 "Reports that Geoffrey and I and the sound engineers were buried in a subterranean studio for weeks on end, taking as long to produce a single sound effect as other people took to produce an entire series (and stealing everybody else’s studio time in which to do so), were all vigorously denied but absolutely true." 00:57:39 Another problem with the Haskell parser I wrote is that the error messages do not always make sense. 00:58:01 Can I see yours? :-P 01:01:00 http://sprunge.us/RYSW 01:01:30 * Sgeo|web decides that his "omniscience paradox" is pretty much just the same thing as "Is the answer to this question 'no'?" 01:01:45 OK 01:02:11 That looks a bit overly short for being a Haskell parser 01:02:14 What limitations does it have beyond no layout? :P 01:03:04 So much for disproving omniscient beings with math bluh 01:03:25 You are not allowed to have \& at the end of a string literal, and floating point numbers must have a decimal point, whether or not the exponent is specified. In addition, quasiquotation uses Haskell syntax instead of its own. 01:03:45 zzo38: I don't see any handling of e.g. data declarations 01:04:03 It only parses into tokens and groups of tokens, so far. I can add ASTs later. 01:05:25 The things I currently have are also a bit messy and I can improve them a bit, at a later time. 01:07:04 But I intended to use it for a preprocessor and not using all the syntax; for example the "o" and "x" in "0o" and "0x" must be in lowercase, and the hexadecimla "ABCDEF" must be uppercase. But I have added some extensions, such as the ability to specify integer literals in binary. 01:10:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Quantum_mechanics&curid=25202&diff=454965738&oldid=454857120 01:12:57 How is ABCDEF *gets shot* coming along? 01:13:05 I mean, other than "It isn't" 01:13:43 Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory 01:14:12 Please tell me it's still up 01:14:12 :( 01:15:31 Yay it's still up 01:18:47 I can tell you something about the D&D session I played today: Neither of us used any class features during this session (although both of us have used some of the racial abilities). 01:22:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:21 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:44:27 -!- augur has joined. 02:00:30 I have still not selected the two spells from next experience level. (They can be up to 3rd level) 02:04:28 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:04:28 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 02:04:28 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:50:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:51:08 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:51:14 -!- clog has joined. 03:04:52 In the Dungeons&Dragons game, once I wanted to tie a note to a rock to throw it through a window so that they can read it. I had no writing equipment, so instead I looked through a book I had for a similar phrase, tore it out, and tied that to the rock. 03:05:18 Should've prepared exploding runes. 03:05:39 I intended them to be read, not exploded! 03:06:08 Oh, it'll get read. 03:06:13 And then explode. 03:06:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 03:07:51 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:08:20 I did not intend them to explode. I was not intending to damage anyone, but I had to break the window to get the message through (I could not actually get anywhere near the window, due to magic fog). I do not know that spell, do not have a spellbook, and do not want to waste the magic. 03:09:51 Also, I wanted to be able to repair the book afterward. 03:09:58 Still should've prepared exploding runes. 03:12:00 You mean, if you had it your way, it would. And then it would have exploded *you*. 03:12:07 I'm with pikhq_ 03:12:13 "Guess which spell I prepared this morning" 03:13:33 Death to the Caster. 03:14:50 What do you think would be the way to design variations on the Mount spell to summon different mounts? 03:16:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/META_II 03:17:03 O, so it means, VALGOL I and VALGOL II are separate from VALGOL. 03:17:23 (As well as different from each other, too.) 03:18:21 And it is the first virtual machine; that is also interesting to know. As well as some of its other features. 03:19:08 it's the master language lol 03:21:11 Yes. 03:23:38 I just came up with a craaazy idea: You know how you can 'fingerprint' people by their gait? I was thinking of 'fingerprinting' people who make rhythm game levels by asking for them to make a 'stream' of a few hundred notes in row, analyzing it markov chain style and then applying it to other streams they make 03:23:42 Since everyone does it a little differently 03:23:48 You could even use it to make streams for you and save time 03:25:03 Yes, if you are satisfied with markov chain generated stream, it would work, I suppose. 03:31:00 I did not record the experience totals for the D&D game yet, but can you try to guess the difference between mine and my brother? 03:33:46 -!- augur has joined. 03:35:51 I have an idea of a D&D single use magic item that allows you to use a single black card of your choice from the deck of many things; the target must be the same as the user. 03:36:12 (Red cards and jokers are not permitted in this case) 03:42:40 Once someone attempts to use it (a standard action provoking attacks of opportunity), they will know what it is and what the choices are, but is not forced to use it immediately; you are permitted to delay its use indefinitely, but it can only be used once. Once it is identified, it can be activated as an immediate action. 03:43:59 How much do you think it would be worth? 03:51:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:56:31 Next time, instead of the "Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory", you can make up the "Adjacent Blink Collated Deserted Esoteric Factoids". 04:32:39 "Catch-22 (logic): In need of something which can only be had by not being in need of it." A computer game I once had included something like this. Someone tells you that they will give you two water energies, but only if you don't need it. However, in that game, you are permitted to lie and they will believe you. 04:45:42 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:55:27 elliott: How's qнc going? 04:55:46 shachaf: Trying to think of a decent first approximation of a name representation. 04:55:49 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:56:01 This is to distract myself from the fact that Haskell's grammar is awful. 04:56:15 elliott: You should call it by some untypeable Unicode name. 04:56:24 That way only people like kmc can use it. 04:56:42 Well, "qhc" is untypeable with a sufficiently non-English keyboard. 04:56:45 And it's certainly Unicode. 04:56:53 elliott: Can you fix all the bad things about Haskell while you're at it? 04:56:57 If kmc uses an English keyboard, we're all set. 04:57:02 shachaf: No. Try @. 04:57:11 What language is @ written in? 04:57:16 Does @ transcend language? 04:57:33 @ constitutes a self-hosted @lang environment. 04:57:39 The @lang compiler will be written in @lang. 04:57:43 elliott: Can you get rid of the arrow in lambda syntax? 04:58:04 Probably there will be a lower-level language underlying it, say @ll, that the @lang compiler compiles down to, and that certain sections of low-level code are written in. 04:58:05 That thing always bothered me. It's not as if it's a huge compatibility issue or anything. 04:58:22 And obviously bootup/low-level allocation/scheduler code will be platform-specific assembly. 04:58:26 shachaf: And replace it with what? 04:58:30 Nothing. 04:59:17 shachaf: What's (\f x f x)? 04:59:34 \f\x f x, you mean? 05:00:10 shachaf: Ah. 05:00:32 shachaf: Wait, I know the answer: No. 05:00:49 Aw. 05:02:02 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:05:55 :t (\f x f x) 05:05:56 parse error on input `)' 05:05:59 :t (\f x -> f x) 05:06:00 forall t t1. (t -> t1) -> t -> t1 05:06:05 :t (.) 05:06:05 forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 05:06:10 Erm 05:06:11 :t ($) 05:06:12 forall a b. (a -> b) -> a -> b 05:06:23 > 1 `(\x y -> x + y)` 2 05:06:24 : parse error on input `(' 05:06:27 :( 05:13:08 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 05:13:08 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (*.net *.split). 05:13:08 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 05:13:08 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:10 -!- clog has joined. 05:14:10 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 05:14:10 -!- jix has joined. 05:14:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:15:23 Someone said there is some possible personality effects based on the month you are born, according to New Scientist. What is the title of the Wikipedia article relating to that study? Obviously you still have to be careful, to do statistics accurately and so on 05:15:50 Is the season related? Is cultural effects related? 05:16:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:17:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 05:18:39 My money is on seasonal TV programming. 05:19:54 Yes, maybe. Of course you also should remember, that usually the birthday is celebrated close to the actual date of each year of their actual birthdate. 05:21:19 Maybe that has something to do with it too. 05:23:28 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:23:33 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:25:43 Seasonal TV programming cycles too fast, and birthdays happen to little, I think. 05:25:49 (too fast compared to development, at least) 05:29:07 Yes, possibly. Do you have the report? 05:31:25 When my registrar is emailing me that codu.xxx is available, that's a problem. 05:33:14 Rule 34 applied to music? 05:33:18 `addquote When my registrar is emailing me that codu.xxx is available, that's a problem. 05:33:22 706) When my registrar is emailing me that codu.xxx is available, that's a problem. 05:33:25 Gregor: Register it. 05:34:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:34:44 Sgeo|web: What about Rule 34 applied to music? 05:34:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:35:21 Gregor: Register it without including an HTTP server (or at least, not on port 80) 05:35:37 elliott: I take offense to that! 05:35:43 There's nothing legitimate about them. 05:36:32 zzo38: That's what I presume codu.xxx would partially contain 05:36:52 Or ... just make porn *shrugs* 05:37:21 Gregor: Have you registered it yet. 05:38:36 No, I think you should leave port 80 unused on that server. 05:38:53 Gregor: zzo really doesn't want you to have an HTTP server. 05:39:34 * shachaf listens on port 80 05:39:39 I hear nothing. 05:42:15 No, I just don't want you to have an HTTP server on the "codu.xxx" server. 05:42:29 (Regardless of its contents) 05:43:08 zzo38: Why 05:44:20 Because of the stupid TLD system. 05:45:08 What has that got to do with HTTP 05:47:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:51:30 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:57:27 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:18:53 zzo38: so new scientist is supporting astrology? 06:20:22 calamari: No. It was doing a statistical study of the months people are born (nothing to do with stars). I do not know the details; but I have some guesses as to what can effect it. 06:23:04 Obviously it does not make sense to plot the IAU zodiac on a horoscope; because only the angular zodiacs are suitable for that purpose. 06:23:12 "Sun sign astrology is the form of astrology most commonly found in many newspaper and magazine columns. It is a simplified system of astrology which considers only the position of the Sun, which is said to be placed within one of the twelve zodiac signs depending on the month of birth. This sign is then called the sun sign or star sign of the person born that month." 06:24:32 Nah it's more like, if you're born in month X you're more likely to have 06:24:40 Because of how it lines up with the seasons and biologicallyness 06:25:04 calamari: That is true, which means that of course the sun signs have correlations with the months! It means nothing else. 06:25:14 Patashu: Yes, it is the kind of things I was thinking of. 06:26:14 That is, seasons. For example, some people say that if you are born in summertime you might be outside more because your parents would be outside more. 06:27:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:27:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 06:28:40 Like how in ancient times they predicted the flood by the stars, what they were effectively doing is using the stars as a calendar, although they might not have known that at the time. Science was not invented back then, so people had different beliefs. 06:33:03 Patashu: What do *you* think? Do you have any specific examples, as well as their values of statistical correlation, what kind of sampling is done, and so on, etc, ? 06:33:11 I do not 06:44:27 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:57:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:24:45 I have looked up information for eclipses and computed horoscopes for them, hiding everything except the sun, moon, north node, and the first five aspects. The north (or south) node is in range as described on Wikipedia, and the sun and moon are as expected; the sun and moon are at the same position in a solar eclipse, and opposite in a lunar eclipse. (The only aspect used is opposite, for lunar eclipses.) 07:27:46 The solar system view would also make it apparent, except that the zoom level is wrong. 07:37:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:37:46 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:36:39 -!- nooga has joined. 08:38:30 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:04:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:19:07 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:44:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:44:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:52:54 -!- derdon has joined. 10:53:52 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:04:45 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 11:27:30 pikhq_: well, the second also has a perfectly known value. 11:27:51 It's just that the value is pretty annoying to use. 11:33:08 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:46:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:48:48 -!- boily has joined. 11:50:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 12:52:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 12:58:39 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 12:59:19 -!- sllide has joined. 13:18:16 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:53:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:59:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:01:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:06:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:06:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:11:38 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:23 in California: court finds that warrantless searches of people's phones at traffic stops are legal; legislature votes for a new law to ban them; governor vetoes it on the basis that the court found that it was legal 14:13:34 err, isn't the whole point of making a new law to change the law? 14:17:45 I think that veto won't survive a return trip to the legislature 14:17:52 but yeah 14:19:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (*.net *.split). 14:19:03 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 14:19:03 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 14:19:03 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 14:24:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:24:29 -!- clog has joined. 14:24:29 -!- jix has joined. 14:24:29 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:26:27 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:32:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:43:04 -!- augur has joined. 14:47:56 `quote 14:47:56 Phantom_Hoover: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:48:02 614) I think Perl is a programming language too. [...] 14:58:51 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined. 14:59:12 -!- Behold has joined. 15:00:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:02:43 -!- jix_ has joined. 15:03:37 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:05:38 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:05:38 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:11:43 -!- Ngevd has joined. 15:11:50 Hello! 15:16:33 Hello. 15:23:32 Much happening in the world of esoteric programming? 15:24:37 No. 15:27:14 *exoteric voodoo programming 15:37:23 Got a friend who believes all programming languages must have a compiler 15:37:32 -!- clog has joined. 15:37:33 Otherwise they aren't actually programming languages 15:38:38 Ngevd: implementation, or compiler specifically? 15:38:47 Compiler specifically 15:42:52 I brought up the subject of interpreters, which he rejected emphatically 15:46:08 What's the difference between Haskell and Literate Haskell? 15:48:20 whether they're comment or noncomment by default, is the only technical difference 15:48:30 Oh, okay 15:48:31 i.e. in Haskell you mark comments, in Literate Haskell you mark the code 15:48:52 but Literate Haskell's designed specifically for literate programming, which is noticeably different from regular styles of programming 15:49:06 Interesting 15:49:38 Ngevd, why are you friends with this person. 15:49:40 Stop it. 15:49:52 I said friend 15:50:15 I really meant annoying acquaitance 15:51:00 -!- nooga has joined. 15:55:16 His dad's apparently a professor of computer science, so really he should know better 15:56:46 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:57:25 Ngevd, as we all know, knowledge of CS is passed on by Lamarckian inheritance. 15:57:44 Apparently he's getting his knowledge from his dad 15:58:05 Seeing as he's one of the few people I know who knows what a programming language /is/ 15:58:20 I think his dad may have taught him one or two things over the years 15:58:28 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:00:23 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 16:01:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:02:21 -!- monqy has joined. 16:06:17 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 16:06:37 I'm going to do some work on XSLT S and K 16:06:47 I think I've almost cracked it 16:08:36 -!- nooga has joined. 16:08:40 you're implementing SKI in XSLT? 16:08:48 Yup 16:08:51 oh gods 16:08:58 Had about four tries 16:09:42 Hmm 16:09:58 What should I call the variable that is 34... of S1234...? 16:10:05 (I have decided to start taking the empty set's name in vain) 16:10:36 It includes the rather dodgy XPath of //s/*[3]/../*[1] 16:14:17 Which, if I know my XPath, which I don't, returns the first child of an s node with at least three children 16:16:42 -!- Jafet has joined. 16:16:54 -!- Jafet has quit (Client Quit). 16:17:19 Hang on 16:18:06 Does (((Sx)y)z) become ((xz)(yz)) 16:19:28 uh yeah 16:19:49 Also, does xsl:copy-of work with a forest 16:20:02 Say ./*[position()>2] 16:22:09 And ALSO 16:22:19 What should I call the variable that is 34... of S1234...? 16:22:31 Sxyz is standard; the fourth argument is irrelevant. 16:22:37 -!- MSleep has joined. 16:22:47 Thanks 16:23:08 If I pass a node to a template as a param, can I do param/.. and get that node's parent node? 16:23:41 Actually, Phantom_Hoover, that isn't quite what I meant. Not your fault, I was making a mistake which I corrected 16:23:46 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 16:23:50 I wanted 234... 16:26:28 But that last question is the important one 16:26:53 -!- kmc_ has joined. 16:29:14 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:33:32 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: what a big quitter he is, eh?). 16:35:55 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 16:37:28 -!- sliddy has joined. 16:38:46 -!- sllide has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:09:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:26:09 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:26:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:26:59 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:29:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:30:04 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:30:05 Hello! 17:31:50 hi 17:32:05 What news of Gondor? 17:32:39 -!- elliott has joined. 17:33:05 Hey elliott 17:44:02 Ngevd: ais523 just scammed BN hardcore 17:47:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:49:31 BN? 17:51:09 Blackberry network? 17:52:23 Black Ninjas. let's just say ais523 is _really_ in trouble now. 17:52:35 blognomic 17:52:36 Phantom_Hoover: blognomic 17:52:44 does Ngevd even play blognomic 17:52:49 I don't think so 17:52:53 elliott: it /was/ a great scam, though 17:53:03 as usual, there's bickering over whether it worked 17:53:26 I thought the BlogNomic strategy was to insist that scams aren't possible, and then continue playing a lie 17:53:30 Ngevd, oh man, there was so much wailing and gnashing of teeth about that in school. 17:53:42 What, BlogNomic scams? 17:53:48 elliott: quite a few players do that, but not all of them 17:53:57 and it was reminiscent of Agoran scams 17:54:05 actually, it was more reminiscent of B ruleset bugs 17:54:14 but I invoked the precedence rule 17:54:21 which is quite an Agoran thing to do 17:59:57 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:03:28 http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/10/photoshop-unblur-leaves-max-audience-gasping-for-air/ they should make it illegal to implement features that make CSI-enhancing more realistic 18:05:13 bad focus vs. blur vs. making shit up that isn't in the original pixels 18:05:30 this only addresses motion blur, which isn't impossible 18:07:24 copumpkin: It's only a matter of time before they figure out how to run content-aware resizing in reverse! 18:07:27 (Or do they do that already?) 18:08:31 Oh FFS, what kind of form imposes character *and* line limits. 18:09:01 twitter 18:09:13 elliott: there was a paper on that in siggraph a couple of years ago 18:09:25 they pulled shit that "fit" out of a large repository of images 18:09:32 copumpkin: I know there was a paper on content-aware resizing in siggraph, that's what got everyone hyped about it :P 18:09:35 to deocclude a part of an image 18:09:36 it's possible they did uncropping too though 18:09:38 next, run it on hubble images 18:09:42 btw content aware resizing is so overrated 18:09:46 elliott: that's what I'm talking about 18:09:51 they totally just picked good examples :P 18:09:54 de-occluding 18:10:00 or whatever the term they picked for it is 18:11:02 inclusive occlusion 18:12:39 Doccluding. 18:14:02 http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/l7u75/wtf_bbc_news_quote_mining_to_make_occupy_wall/ 18:14:16 Redditor demonstrates failure to understand this 'satire' thing. 18:17:19 what do you expect in r/wtf 18:17:29 ...Fair point. 18:29:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:42:14 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:44:56 FOR GOD'S SAKE UCAS WHY DO YOU NEED 47 LINES OR LESS WHYYYYYYYY 18:46:49 Phantom_Hoover: it's to test your ability to write in limited spaces on forms 18:46:59 "When in Rome, do as Romans. On Windows platform, Visual Basic can build much better looking, much usable GUI than gtk2hs. And Visual Studio allows you do it in no time. Don't you agree?" 18:47:18 I didn't ever expect to be seriously asked to defend the statement "Haskell is better than Visual Basic". 18:47:24 (the "serious" answer, IIRC, is because there's also a paper version of the form and they're giving people the same amount of space on both forms) 18:47:30 elliott: you weren't 18:47:32 that's not serious 18:47:34 ais523: it is 18:47:37 ais523: unfortunately 18:47:39 is it really 18:47:41 really really 18:47:42 yes 18:47:44 ;_; 18:47:44 yes 18:47:54 elliott: well, I suppose it is serious, believing Visual Basic is better than Haskell could be fatal 18:48:21 bad 18:48:29 hmm, I've been avoiding downvoting their comments for fairness, but they might actually deserve it for breaking my brain like that 18:48:35 (more seriously, VB.NET is not a completely awful language; it's on a similar level to C# or Java, both languages which I dislike, but which aren't down to VB6 or PHP standards) 18:49:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:50:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:52:34 "No, I'm not referring to Turing completeness, which only non-practical people care about." 18:52:50 hmm, doesn't that reddit enhancement suite offer username ignores? 18:53:58 -!- kmc_ has joined. 18:54:43 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:55:13 sounds like the _first_ feature you'd want to implement 18:57:49 -!- boily has joined. 19:03:34 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 19:15:22 autodownvote and ignore 19:15:32 lol 19:15:36 autodownvote and report and ignore 19:15:43 autoreply to with an inflammatory comment 19:16:19 and autoban from the sub/reddit if you have the authority 19:16:43 :D 19:16:48 -!- nooga has joined. 19:16:54 autohire a hitman 19:17:22 autonuke the country (if not yours) 19:17:38 i think you win 19:21:09 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:21:21 Hello! 19:21:38 While I do play Nomic, I am not in BlogNomix 19:21:42 *-ic 19:21:43 x 19:23:44 I have to say, Visual Studio does make form design easier 19:24:11 However, that is a small advantage over Haskell that Haskell can easily counter with various things 19:24:18 Such as virtually everything 19:24:22 someone should write a haskell binding. or something. 19:24:26 Gtk has a form designer :-P 19:24:30 I think wxWidgets does too 19:24:35 Haskell.NET 19:24:42 Yesssss 19:25:32 elliott, go inventing 19:25:49 I'm trying to keep a hold of the few remaining scraps of my human soul. 19:26:00 Haskell.NET doesn't sound very good on that front. 19:26:17 C'mon, you're already one of my evil triplets 19:30:54 And you live in what in some dialects is slang for hell 19:31:06 YOU LIVE IN HELL 19:31:21 No, he lives in Sixpig. 19:31:27 Erm. 19:31:27 Hex 19:31:31 Eightpig. 19:31:45 Hex is six 19:31:48 Octo is eight 19:31:50 Eightcow 19:31:59 Fuck you, I need coffee. 19:32:01 :P 19:32:39 :PPPP 19:32:49 I have more mouths than you 19:33:08 No, stupid people. 19:33:31 Ngevd lives in Charmpork, elliott lives in Hexham and Facekicker lives in Cursebacon. 19:33:45 Charmpork. 19:33:51 Well, I have my next DF fortress name. 19:33:57 -!- augur has joined. 19:33:59 > ":" ++ cycle "P" 19:34:01 ":PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP... 19:34:19 wait, there's another Hexhamer here? 19:34:23 Me 19:34:23 ais523: ... 19:34:28 ais523, you... missed that? 19:34:29 ais523: you have to be fucking kidding me we went over this like TWO WEEKS AGO 19:34:33 ais523: HOW CAN YOU KEEP FORGETTING THINGS 19:34:35 It was a pretty big deal. 19:34:37 Facekicker is someone I heard of once 19:34:40 Phantom__Hoover: I've told him personally /twice/ 19:34:47 Who somebody else thought may have been elliott 19:34:55 elliott: I wasn't reading at the time, if I was even in the channel 19:35:02 ais523: yes you were, I told _you_ personally, _twice_ 19:35:05 after you expressed disbelief each time 19:35:06 I keep reading things as 'elephant'. 19:35:19 I mixed it up with 'element' in chemistry, with predictable results. 19:35:23 :D 19:35:24 elliott: more than you and Ngevd, I mean 19:35:28 I thought you were implying there was a third 19:35:30 oh 19:35:33 >_< 19:35:40 which would have been ridiculous 19:35:42 No, Facekicker is the eviller triplet 19:35:47 Maybe everyone is from Hexham at heart. 19:35:49 He's so evil he can't use computers 19:35:59 * pikhq_ casts a spell so that everyone is now from Hexham 19:36:13 #esoteric: the Hexham channel. 19:36:19 #hexham 19:36:43 pikhq_: also don't you mean 19:36:43 a 19:36:44 HEX 19:36:45 (ham) 19:37:30 Phantom__Hoover: i don't see how that is relephant. 19:37:38 elliott: Very well. 19:37:43 I cast a hex using ham. 19:37:49 Most delicious ham. 19:38:14 hexed all the way to hexham, the horror 19:38:45 hexham, arkham and newsham 19:39:37 heck sham and new sham 19:40:06 ol' sner of heck sham 19:40:30 Don't say olsner is from Hexham 19:40:45 Ngevd: we all are, didn't you pay attention? 19:41:01 No, I fell asleep 19:41:05 I refuse to be imagined in England. 19:41:17 We're pretty close to the border 19:41:21 Relatively speaking 19:41:24 Ngevd: if you missed the hex, I'll just hecksh you to heck-sham instead 19:41:31 Not as close as, for instance, Berwick 19:41:38 But nobody likes Berwick 19:41:47 Ngevd, I don't care, it's a matter of principle. 19:41:51 it's a wicked place 19:42:05 Also you steal Berwick from us and then say you don't want it? 19:42:18 You stole it from us first! 19:43:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:43:05 `addquote Also you steal Berwick from us and then say you don't want it? You stole it from us first! 19:43:06 bericum, the ancient roman fortress 19:43:07 707) Also you steal Berwick from us and then say you don't want it? You stole it from us first! 19:43:29 *berovicum 19:43:33 I think Prudhoe was the town that changed hands the most 19:43:34 Ngevd, yeah, but at least we didn't get bored with it! 19:43:58 Do you want Berwick back? 19:44:02 Yes. 19:44:08 Okay, keep it 19:44:11 See how I care 19:44:21 They already play football in Scotland 19:44:38 It's ridiculous, having North Berwick but not Berwick itself. 19:44:38 Can we just cut Berwick off and solve the whole thing? 19:45:34 "The Wales and Berwick Act 1746 (since repealed) deemed that whenever legislation referred to England, it applied to Berwick, without attempting to define Berwick as part of England." 19:47:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:47:30 nuke Berwick, plobrem sloved 19:47:37 elliott, OK, I don't actually think North Berwick is good for much. 19:47:56 There's a rock with some birds on it, but it's in the sea so it doesn't count. 19:48:03 On another note, it's a shame that the esoteric message board failed 19:48:41 -!- oerjan has set topic: Anglo-Caledonian diplomacy and sword games | Welcome to the international hub for exoteric voodoo programming design and deployment! | computed jumps... the topic. | 12345678^&!* | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:50:19 Phantom__Hoover: :D 20:06:29 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:06:31 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:27:03 Is it possible to write a program working both with and without SDL, without requiring separate compilation? 20:27:22 Or do I have to make the command-line edition a separate executable file? 20:27:28 zzo38: Sure, you could use libdl to get the SDL stuff. 20:27:34 -!- tiffany has joined. 20:27:41 It would probably be much simpler to just make two executables though :) 20:27:43 Or not call the SDL initialisation. 20:28:22 pikhq_: I assumed "without SDL" meant "libSDL.so.whatever: File not found" 20:28:27 Gregor: Yes, it would, at least in Windows. For UNIX systems it might be more convenient to use one executable, though; that is, if there is a reasonable way to do so. 20:28:53 Gregor: No I meant to have a separate command-line edition 20:28:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 20:29:24 Gregor: Ah. Yeah, for that you'd need seperate executables or libdl. 20:29:45 zzo38: Like I said, libdl is your friend. But what I would probably do is make two executables, then have a small script that chooses which to run *shrugs* 20:30:09 You could just statically link SDL in. :p 20:30:38 Still implies tons of deps that you wouldn't want in the CL case. 20:30:39 (And decide whether to use it at runtime) 20:30:54 Gregor: As opposed to having the default build process build two executables and just use a shell script? :P 20:31:21 I guess it could just forget about building one if SDL wasn't present. 20:31:24 elliott: Cannot load foobar: libX11.so: File not found 20:31:49 Gregor: Well duh, I meant SDL + deps :P 20:32:31 I can make two executables; a shell script is not really needed. It could use a common source file, I suppose, or even a dynamic library that is most of the functions of the program, and the SDL specific stuff is contained in the main executable file. 20:32:44 A shell script could be used for compiling, though. 20:51:19 -!- calamari has joined. 20:53:46 "Dude, end users care about the user experience. This is why Apple has been so successful with ipod, iphone, even though there are technically better products. You can't say you don't care." 20:54:08 this post is the stupidest thing anyone has ever said to me in a programming language war 20:54:11 ;__; 20:54:30 Apple have been successful because they look cool 20:54:35 Funny, I could've sworn that Apple was successful *in spite* of being so damned user hostile. 20:55:18 Apple... aren't user-hostile. Their philosophy is in principle, but so is every large tech company's. 20:56:35 The iPhone shit in particular is. 20:57:18 No, it's not; yes, it's an unprogrammable, locked down system, but so is every other mobile OS; and definitely an iPhone is more usable than the others ignoring that. 20:57:26 Anyway, that's not the point. 20:57:29 "Why, yes, I would *love* to have a central authority vetting things according to compliance with corporate self-interest!" 20:57:39 Of course, this is nothing *unique* to Apple. 20:58:42 pikhq_, I think you missed the part where someone is justifying a language argument with this. 20:58:48 Oh. Right. 20:58:52 That's beyond moronic. 20:59:30 i don't find springboard more usable than some of the android UIs i've tried. pandahome is a better interface than springboard even though its only a beta app, imo. but yeah, nnot trying to undermine your underlying point... 20:59:53 quintopia: Yes, clearly the launcher screen is the entire decider of usability :P 21:00:13 it is for most consumers :) 21:00:31 Not...really? 21:00:54 (the stupid settings menus iOS uses just make them look even worse, but i'm not really going to have that argument) 21:00:56 I mean, getting to the address book is important usability-wise, but that means fuck all if it's still a hideous pain to edit the actual entries. 21:02:19 apple's built-in address book is far from the best mobile address book app either. i think they are spending too much time sitting on their laurels. 21:02:47 -!- derdon has joined. 21:02:58 quintopia: It was an example. 21:03:04 English really needs proper support for metasyntactic variables. 21:03:36 it does. just say $foo and i will understand 21:04:02 alternately, use e.g. before the metasyntactic variable and its metasyntactic properties 21:12:54 Goodness gracious the US has bad income inequality. 21:13:34 You don't say. 21:13:53 Huh, Adobe are actually pushing the obsoletion of their plugin as their sort-of-official line. 21:13:54 Does anyone know of a place to discuss XSLT on Freenode 21:13:55 In other news, outrage as the Pope blesses bears in the woods. 21:13:56 ? 21:13:59 We're worse off than many third-world countries. 21:14:01 Jebus. 21:14:05 Ngevd, #xslt 21:14:10 Empty 21:14:18 (By "sort of official", as in "non-controversial posts on their developers' blogs that are devoted to discussing how awesome they are".) 21:14:25 In other news, outrage as the Pope blesses bears in the woods. 21:14:28 Are they Catholic? 21:14:36 No, that's why there's outrage. 21:14:38 Ngevd: are you using it to implement a turing machine or doing anything with XML documents? 21:14:45 The former 21:14:55 Sort of the latter 21:15:00 Actually, neither 21:15:15 Turing-equivalent computational models expressed as XML 21:15:26 Ngevd: You've switched to the model, right? 21:15:31 Not that ridiculous "put stuff in it to apply" thing? 21:15:36 No, I switched back 21:15:46 Ngevd: ...why. 21:15:57 It's literally semantic nonsense. 21:16:03 It's a hell of a lot easier 21:16:06 Ngevd: XSLT already is a Turing-equivalent computational model expressed as XML :) 21:16:25 I want to demonstrate this beyond a shadow of a doubt! 21:16:32 Ngevd: It so is not easier. 21:16:46 but that's already been done (by implementing a universal turing machine) 21:16:47 There is no possible way that structure could be easier :P 21:17:19 It is for me 21:18:14 But you know what? 21:18:19 I'll do it your way 21:18:23 Yessssssssssssssss 21:18:36 It's easier because always has two children, for one thing :P 21:18:40 And start completely again for the SIXTH GODDAMN TIME 21:24:06 Well, I've done K one method and S the other 21:24:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:24:33 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 21:25:16 How is it this hard to implement a tree-rewriting system in a tree-rewriting language? 21:25:27 If you can do S, surely K and I are trivial. 21:25:27 Because I barely know either 21:25:47 I switched to your method after finishing S 21:25:56 In your method I did K first 21:26:03 Ngevd: What are you using to apply the XSLT? 21:26:13 xsltproc? 21:26:16 At the moment, my MIND 21:26:24 Probably a web browser 21:26:31 I have a choice of four 21:26:37 One of which it won't work for 21:26:41 So, three 21:30:38 Why does Astrolog use the orb setting of -180.0 for Conjunction? The orb is the degree of separation between exactitude; a negative value doesn't make sense. I changed the values for all aspects to 7; the Sun and Moon are conjunct in a new moon and opposite in a full moon. 21:32:53 If you plot only the sun and moon on a horoscope, with the fixed sun position, you can see the phase of the moon. If you include the lunar nodes, you can include eclipses as well (see the wikipedia article about "Lunar node"). 21:34:34 "Eclipses occur only near the lunar nodes: Solar eclipses occur when the passage of the Moon through a node coincides with the new moon; lunar eclipses occur when passage coincides with the full moon." 21:35:05 MYSTERIOUS 21:36:34 Mysterious? 21:36:41 Highly. 21:37:43 What about mysterious? Are you talking about lunar nodes? 21:37:52 Only partially 21:41:17 Only partially? 21:41:23 Yes 21:41:48 Do you mean horoscopes as well? Or even the sun and moon? Aspects? Orbs? 21:41:58 `quote 21:42:00 Weetos 21:42:01 17) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. 21:42:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:42:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:42:32 Weetos? What is that? 21:45:55 Breakfast cereal 21:46:03 `quote breakfast cereal 21:46:05 527) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 21:46:08 OK. 21:46:16 `quote breakfast cereal 21:46:18 527) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 21:46:26 Dammit there is another quote 21:46:31 `quote 529 21:46:33 529) _ | |__ _ _ ___ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | |_) | |_| | __/ |_.__/ \__, |\___| 21:46:39 Not that one 21:46:42 `quote sugary 21:46:44 527) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 21:46:50 `quote wholegrain 21:46:52 553) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency 21:46:55 That one 21:47:35 It's choclatey and wholegrain 21:48:03 Chocgrain. 21:48:08 Wholelate. 21:48:20 And on that note I leave you all for bed 21:48:22 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: what a big quitter he is, eh?). 21:59:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:59:11 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:01:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:37 * Phantom__Hoover → sleep 22:02:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:11:43 -!- MDude has joined. 22:20:30 -!- sliddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:20:54 -!- sliddy has joined. 22:28:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:46:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:48:41 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:49:58 -!- sliddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:03:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:19:40 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:26:13 I have found various bugs in the Astrolog program. For example, Sun: Virgo -> Libra is the autumnal equinox in tropical mode, but in sidereal mode it is also labeled the autumnal equinox, which is incorrect. It also does not save all the settings correctly (although you can enter them manually in the ASTROLOG.DAT file). 23:26:36 And why is it labeled Virgo -> Libra even though I told it to display the angles in degrees instead? 23:30:26 It does correctly display the labels "Full moon" and so on for aspects between the sun and moon. 23:31:11 However, in my opinion it should consider "Sun square Moon" and "Moon square Sun" to be separate, because that is what calendars do. 23:44:00 I have a map of eclipses, but they do not specify latitude/longitude 23:47:58 what if homestuck like.... 23:48:00 never ends. 23:49:49 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:42 then it will jump the shark and people will stop caring 23:50:45 Cf. Maddox 23:56:01 I... think it will take a long time for that to happen with homestuck 23:56:32 most tv shows and the like as centered on some premise that makes them stagnate once ideas run out. 23:56:39 but homestuck can kind of... do literally anything. 23:57:40 we haven't even got to a point where the midnight crew is part of the main story. maybe they won't be... 23:57:46 but that would be really weird. 23:57:53 if they weren't ever mentioned again after the intermission. 23:58:01 Dude, have you even been paying attention. 23:58:13 yeah, why? 23:58:27 ... 23:58:47 my memory is kind of fuzzy though. I could probably stand to re-read the whole thing.