< 1317513616 323520 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some things I would have changed in Wayland. < 1317513625 911513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: are you going to retract that ubuntu apologist remark? I've definitely spewed sufficient vitriol at Ubuntu in the past week or so that it's laughably inaccurate even if I'd spent every previous year of my life, I don't know, getting Ubuntu tattoos or something < 1317513633 700033 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wee! yasm appears to have lost those particular bugs < 1317513640 40702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: report a compatibility bug < 1317513664 865628 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and break the only assembler that correctly assembles my code? :( < 1317513679 200760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, I am sure they can add a -std= option :D < 1317513681 379235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-std=nasm < 1317513685 323158 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :-std=olsner < 1317513753 241610 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows zilch about either Wayland or X.
< 1317513760 457830 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1317513767 316406 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that X complaints are part of the UNIX Hater's Manual < 1317513776 686540 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that more than just that agrees that X is bad. < 1317513786 937185 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's enough to write an X Haters' Manual < 1317513801 319148 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, was working on something for my kids.. sure, my bad < 1317513807 932084 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's hated mainly because there isn't an alternative. Sort of like when people used to hate Motif. < 1317513808 488532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: thanks < 1317513814 586803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who think X is bad normally focus on the wrong bits of it < 1317513831 682469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I would like to see a class on design using X < 1317513833 377808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1317513837 59328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's today's example of what not to do < 1317513841 653691 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Motif really was bad though, because people still hate Motif. < 1317513851 252785 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not necessarily a huge xorg fan or anything either.. it's just the way things are and if they are taken away then I can't do what I need to do < 1317513853 748560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :motif is pretty awful < 1317513862 875146 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main gripe with motif is how ugly it is < 1317513870 958005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well, like I said, all current transition plans involve a transparent X server being run... so ssh -X would work without doing anything < 1317513872 97863 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the time ubuntu shipped without a menu editor < 1317513879 279966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: did you know that even nowadays, Java has a Motif-like theme as one of the options? < 1317513884 94230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can get motif looking "ok" < 1317513887 430396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised I am watching Marble Hornets in the middle of the night alone with surround headphones < 1317513889 569197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: hmm, what did you need the menu editor for? < 1317513891 739782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure if I am sane < 1317513895 440056 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need sleep < 1317513897 231060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1317513899 98608 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317513903 216437 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: customizing the gnome menu < 1317513909 219798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean, why? < 1317513931 290348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Solaris kernel it is common practice to make heavy use of the virtual address space because it is designed to work well. However, in the Linux kernel most memory is addressed with a physical address and use of the virtual address space is strongly discouraged." < 1317513933 242491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, is this really true? < 1317513934 660644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, it's sorted quite sensibly, and has more or less what I want on there < 1317513935 437946 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can hide things or show things that are hidden by default.. move them to other menus, etc < 1317513942 987409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew Linux was crappy, but... < 1317513947 380214 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed the menu editor to find out what the programs' names actually were. < 1317513951 521224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1317513952 861460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: you're describing the functionality of a menu editor, that's not what ais523 asked < 1317513972 799534 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I thought the answer was obvious, so I figured he might not know? < 1317513977 790674 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds believable < 1317513985 528813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: that's not a very productive way to communicate < 1317513990 122037 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the abuses of mmap, kmalloc, etc. < 1317514023 878489 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trying to imply that linux sucks at virtual memory, which may or may not be true < 1317514038 644071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well, it seems to be sorted quite sensibly to me, and have a sensible set of programs on there by default, and I'm not quite clear why you'd want a GUI program installed but not on the menus < 1317514051 626883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stuff that doesn't show by default is mostly things like KDE options setting in Gnome, etc < 1317514075 811386 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of the more obscure programs are packaged without being added to the desktop menus < 1317514077 980288 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm a control freak, what can I say? that's why I am a programmer < 1317514103 185511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: what programs do you have installed that you don't want on the menu? < 1317514105 308060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: heh, I write .desktop files for things I install locally sometimes < 1317514106 696057 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's one of the reasons that linux appeals to me also < 1317514109 831007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jettyplat has one < 1317514111 891354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Jettyplay < 1317514116 20626 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more likely that the other code in the kernel sucks at virtual memory, e.g. assuming that kernel memory can never be paged out or can never fault, rather than the virtual memory system itself being bad < 1317514124 247723 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, the window system, should be designed, it is something a lot like SDL. And there are a fixed number of mouse pointer icons which are 16x16 2 bits per pixel (one for black/white, one for transparency). The size of the screen for each window is the inner size of the window. < 1317514151 255212 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I'm running kde now... < 1317514153 491143 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: covered in "abuses of kmalloc" < 1317514158 165122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: huh? < 1317514166 520974 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window manager arranges windows, adds borders, can override keyboard commands and mouse warping, decides when the mouse pointer is hidden, and decides what gets focus. < 1317514218 853624 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: meaning it handles the menu differently.. if you don't want something, you just delete it.. so I can't easily tell you what I hid < 1317514239 40471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: but why wouldn't you just uninstall them < 1317514271 984194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows and the PRIMARY/SECONDARY/CLIPBOARD buffers (same as X) are accessible by FUSE directory. < 1317514298 92110 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the program < 1317514341 983479 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is one I still have on my menu.. but say I never used java web start.. I still want java so I don't uninstall it.. but I can get rid of it from my menu < 1317514364 697773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just tells me jws should be in another package < 1317514415 79414 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example.. I could remove the pdf viewer from the menu.. since the file association lets me open pdfs < 1317514490 28845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :document viewers shouldn't be in the menu in the first place :p < 1317514540 690244 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example: I have a ton of internet and multimedia related applications, so I manually organize them and add dividers so I can find what I want more easily < 1317514578 383 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menu doesn't have tab completion anyways < 1317514580 246418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you want to open a document via URL? < 1317514618 952022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what of it? < 1317514633 806648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you do that from inside the document reader itself < 1317514647 713384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I do it via alt-F2, but that's because I'm used to command lines < 1317514659 241331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there should be an "Open URL..." thing somewhere < 1317514663 238561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more likely, just "Open" < 1317514665 339756 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example.. they put diffuse in the accessories menu.. that's cool. But I only use it for development, so I moved it where it made more sense to me < 1317514675 92996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, so in those cases, you open the document /reader/ via the main menu < 1317514687 297771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diffuse? < 1317514689 593735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1317514694 776530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should just be a global "Open..." < 1317514701 336335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :document-centric, not application-centric < 1317514715 761205 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gui diff tool < 1317514723 58992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you want to open it with a specific application? < 1317514739 651951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Open with" < 1317514742 401833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-stupid possible reason why: the remote server gives the wrong content-type) < 1317514742 615032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1317514749 407443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the open dialogue should have as one of the fields < 1317514754 357287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Application: [ Determine automatically ] < 1317514766 305740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid but happens all too often in practice reason why: the default application for a video file is a web browser not video player) < 1317514793 667214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or maybe it should be [Cancel] [Open With...] [Open], and if you click the middle, it loads the resource, and filters down the application list based on which ones offer to handle it < 1317514801 734927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the option to show all applications if it's not listed) < 1317514807 337905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be more efficient < 1317514844 805276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you can determine the content type from the first few bytes or the MIME type < 1317514850 804376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you'd have to download the file twice < 1317514857 319032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just download it into /tmp < 1317514867 795122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1317514869 206666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's imperfect, but lots of apps don't support reading from URLs anyway < 1317514877 704649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC "evince http://blah/foo.pdf" doesn't work < 1317514879 751625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the program I want to open it with is head? < 1317514883 406319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the command line < 1317514886 715413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't want to download the file < 1317514891 425577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the file is infinitely long? < 1317514893 144368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you should be using a shell :P < 1317514895 376068 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did I answer your question about why I want to edit my menus? < 1317514899 220441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GUIhead, then < 1317514901 778480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes, thanks < 1317514910 336959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting conversation's been quite good < 1317514927 372628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shrug, I guess there can be some way to select the application first, but this sounds PRETTY CONTRIVED to me < 1317514956 302421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'm thinking of attack surface < 1317514962 304014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, the /real/ answer is that the entire current WIMP paradigm is inherently flawed and application-centric, and ... blah blah blah :) < 1317514999 378552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think being able to use different applications to edit the same thing is a good thing < 1317515009 116675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to maintain that, you need the concept of an application pretty much no matter what < 1317515028 125450 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An indefinite-length .ogg stream sounds like a non-contrived thing to want to open with a user-specified app without having to impossibly download all of it. (Though with HTTP URLs one could possibly HEAD it for content type determination.) < 1317515035 653584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go home, anyway < 1317515040 810627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317515067 917505 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317515091 492421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is wrong, but ninja-quit before I could disagree < 1317515140 511616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sounds like a really bad way to do internet radio. < 1317515152 640440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And ais was operating under the assumption that MIME wouldn't be enough. < 1317515155 597021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO it should just get the MIME and use that. < 1317515159 53238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I have websplat I no longer need anything else. < 1317515163 40737 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck life. fuck success. < 1317515168 779903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the MIME is truly wrong, you can always select "all applications". < 1317515173 480775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to wall jump on wikipedia articles. < 1317515210 996534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://web.archive.org/web/20110721010754/http://www.havenworks.com/ < 1317515221 663282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor might remember the window size and font settings requirements we agreed on for competition purposes. < 1317515228 710651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, if you beat it no matter what the settings we'll be impressed. < 1317515360 517437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I restart if I die? < 1317515407 3293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: refresh < 1317515408 609328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh < 1317515409 518804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask GreaseMonkey < 1317515410 430688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317515411 145383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: < 1317515413 806255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a better way < 1317515422 399996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ugh, is that haevnworks link down for you too? < 1317515440 660483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should probably give you a link to the old interface < 1317515447 835113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the images used in waybackmachine's UI will mess with websplat's score counting < 1317515449 188004 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's down. < 1317515474 930420 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for Wayland, I'm probably going to have to wait until someone writes a WMonad or something. < 1317515491 225733 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo uhh < 1317515519 545680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm sure that'll happen about three days after Wayland ships in a major distro. < 1317515542 806047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, it _does_ need to handle compositing, so it's non-trivial.) < 1317515686 696863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does a tiling window manager really need to handle compositing? what is there to compose? < 1317515707 453228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a Wayland WM /is/ a compositor < 1317515711 687908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wayland is based around compositing < 1317515728 768234 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmhm, ok < 1317515756 383510 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to do all the Wayland-servery stuff; they're all in the same pile. But I suppose someone will just take the simplest existing Wayland thingie and mesh some tiling into it at some point. < 1317515800 220298 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[FAQ on how to replace the window manager:] "Bringing up EGL and GLES2 on the Linux KMS framebuffer and reading input from evdev can be done in less that a thousand lines of code. The Wayland server side library provides the protocol implementation and makes it easy to put the pieces together." < 1317515828 813915 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what they *say*... < 1317515844 604226 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317515847 706707 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you gotta do is write a thousand lines of code < 1317515848 178016 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ez < 1317515874 607773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Well, that's not much < 1317515890 198976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm joking < 1317515905 122713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317515907 346331 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it probably can't be worse than writing a real, working X WM (what with all the nastiness), especially if you steal from others; but it's not quite just "port this WM over". < 1317515942 51599 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/steal/reuse/ #better be politically correct < 1317516135 680081 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think stealing is more appropriate if you do it by copying the useful parts of the code (rather than e.g. building a library out of the reusable parts) < 1317516196 156306 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe copy/paste :) < 1317516205 486569 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think stealing is more appropriate" *yoink* the out-of-context quoter strikes again, fire up the `addquote machine. < 1317516244 677141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I think stealing is more appropriate < 1317516249 775882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :694) I think stealing is more appropriate < 1317516269 878352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The dmenu code is not as good as I was hoping :( < 1317516270 878616 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back < 1317516272 704711 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`callthepolice OLSNER IS A THEIF < 1317516274 574207 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: callthepolice: not found < 1317516280 602407 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you allowed to partially quote a line? < 1317516282 154343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying to figure out how hard it would be to mod dmenu to do the matching I want.) < 1317516288 38398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Only with special authorisation. < 1317516293 718202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from.... yourself? < 1317516296 490142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317516300 422619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1317516311 894850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds reasonable to me. < 1317516318 528544 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :given papal customs. < 1317516321 740636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that would be great < 1317516366 569021 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is using a katamari to collect all images on a page before I run websplat considered cheating < 1317516370 659726 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you shouldn't trust the logs or quotes or even anything you read in person while logged in on this channel anyway < 1317516375 683704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. < 1317516422 799698 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial quotes are just a lesser breed of completely made up quotes < 1317516433 636591 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't doubt we have a bunch of too < 1317516434 593772 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317516439 320217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not many < 1317516443 812680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ALTERNATE < 1317516446 182057 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :17) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ 23) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once \ 24) In an alternate universe, ehird has taste \ 25) IN AN < 1317516446 876140 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317516456 716684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, newegg redesigned < 1317516465 964736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will I not purchase computer hardware now? < 1317516476 806686 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made reverse of "collect" operation for barrier monad, it is: uncollect = foldl (>>) (Unit undefined) . map yield; < 1317516534 940535 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats websplat there are too many things called websplat < 1317516560 214284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the only good game < 1317516565 236059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/websplat/ < 1317516626 540063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: protip: down-up is a really useful combination < 1317516668 181767 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is < 1317516678 796735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god it is SUCH A GOOD GAME < 1317516800 725306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the win image tiling is broken :( < 1317516936 345120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does anyone know if there's a well-known algorithm for doing the kind of fuzzy matching that lets you eliminate substrings entirely and otherwise acts like some form ofedit distance? < 1317516943 773281 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also it's not compatible with existing katamari code. < 1317516950 183974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I can't cheat. < 1317517037 258271 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4f9ed.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317517096 795067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of confused as to why the websplate code is a lambda that is immediately called. < 1317517116 992862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try and write a bookmarklet without doing that < 1317517121 447957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bookmarklets are expressions < 1317517125 958258 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317517277 453733 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing multiple games of websplat at once: amazing < 1317517919 666909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: bug report!!! one of my Facebook friends can't get your bookmarklet to work. < 1317517927 103065 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: they are probably just doing it wrong) < 1317518079 959865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you use a version with foldr instead it can work on infinite lists, and might also nest better < 1317518127 701214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he was trying to add it to the end of the address. bug resolved. :P < 1317518135 763321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK I will put foldr thank you for telling me about it. < 1317518270 829055 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is: uncollect = foldr (>>) (Unit ()) . map yield; < 1317518318 355525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: note that now the Unit part comes last rather than first, in case that's a problem < 1317518347 838819 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317518355 645922 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-253.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317518398 792258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: return = Unit, isn't it? in which case uncollect = mapM_ yield is equivalent. < 1317518414 66459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it is return = Unit < 1317518444 426733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes, mapM_ yield works too. < 1317518448 833256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src mapM_ < 1317518449 38175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapM_ f as = sequence_ (map f as) < 1317518452 443540 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317518454 163648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more readable < 1317518483 25236 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... now he's saying the bookmarklet takes him to google < 1317518485 393726 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's just stupid. < 1317518488 985622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence_ < 1317518489 122104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence_ ms = foldr (>>) (return ()) ms < 1317518498 853134 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317518522 671092 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-1.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317518555 352828 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapM instead of mapM_ works too (because I don't care the return type), but mapM_ seems to be faster so I will use mapM_ < 1317518590 318756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK now I used your suggestion and now it works. < 1317518624 837177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapM is basically a space leak < 1317518630 563115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, mapM collects all the monadic results in a list, so also uses more memory < 1317518634 626913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas mapM_ is constant space < 1317518837 573282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I point him to the actual website so he can just drag the link into his bookmarks instead of having to use his brain to copypaste code. < 1317518841 555499 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it suddenly works! < 1317518901 444399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gui ftw < 1317518958 893732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do you have javascript enabled?" "I honestly don't know." < 1317518963 95900 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-__- < 1317518985 33085 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, it was a dumb question of me to ask. He IS using facebook. < 1317519042 107542 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you need is a program like teamviewer < 1317519045 700097 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of asking them check yourself < 1317519058 530138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: do you expect most people to know whether they have js on or not? < 1317519064 307129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty esoteric knowledge < 1317519077 147976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not really < 1317519080 232234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am young and naive. < 1317519084 237312 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimistic. < 1317519156 362443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously how do you mess up copypasting js. < 1317519160 782169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :into an address bar. < 1317519178 625320 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I had an entire comment that was the js, in a previous comment I said "copypaste this into your address bar" < 1317519307 480865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...probably included the part (or equivalent >:) ) < 1317519316 449319 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how < 1317519318 932652 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that even possible. < 1317519324 732955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno... < 1317519334 89365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you like metal? < 1317519345 59702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1317519346 153382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an oerjan expert < 1317519349 280852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can safely say < 1317519351 395493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that oerjan is GUARANTEED < 1317519352 661497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to love metal < 1317519357 82330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he is. < 1317519380 573077 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :his metal-loving nature sticks out like a... well it's really obvious. < 1317519394 994282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be a handful of metal songs which i like. < 1317519442 926662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how many churches have you burned? < 1317519444 657246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear it's popular < 1317519447 550746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1317519449 742080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over there < 1317519451 462304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :approx. 0 < 1317519466 78547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with the satanic metal people. < 1317519474 844878 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't think oerjan would go that low. < 1317519486 111125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think Vikernes was a satanist < 1317519489 618211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a weird pagan type thing < 1317519502 2869 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1317519502 751905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Vikernes didn't actually burn any churches directly < 1317519512 413637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think that's what he says anyway :P < 1317519518 380496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he burned churches to avenge the norse gods, or something. < 1317519520 302542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I read his wikipedia page once, good times) < 1317519529 88924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lessee... "I am not going to say that I burnt any churches. But let me put it this way: There was one person who started it. I was not found guilty of burning the Fantoft stave church, but anyway, that was what triggered the whole thing. That was the 6th of June and everyone linked it to Satanism ... What everyone overlooked was that on the 6th June, 793, in Lindesfarne in Britain was the site of the first known Viking raid in history, wi < 1317519529 156845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :th Vikings from Hordaland, which is my county ... They [the Christians] desecrated our graves, our burial mounds, so it's revenge." < 1317519565 783467 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I kind of just thought all Scandinavians listen to Swedish progressive death metal band Opeth, as a matter of nation, er, culture, er, uh... geographical pride. < 1317519591 273765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Opeth shit, I distinctly recall somebody with good tastes telling me Opeth was shit at one point in my long, long life < 1317519593 675925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was wondering if oerjan was excited as I was about the new album. < 1317519602 437872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are actually quite good as far as metal goes. < 1317519610 61599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*progressive metal < 1317519617 446174 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who listen to shitty metal will tell you that progressive metal is shit. < 1317519620 368921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're lame. < 1317519674 602573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also their new album actually probably isn't even metal. < 1317519700 611451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like... jazz rock. < 1317519711 655912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds bad < 1317519726 43826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW NOTHING < 1317519743 694369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jazz fusion: also known as : " the worst genre," < 1317519753 483340 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not that kind of jazz. < 1317519775 535557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just looked it up on wikipedia , they disagree , < 1317519778 573410 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has stylings reminiscent of a 70s jazz band, with the technicality of death metal. < 1317519779 233587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. < 1317519784 132797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*side of < 1317519785 809848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ay, yes elliott this album is a member of :the worst genre < 1317519794 78943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. < 1317519796 573247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :695) i am sorry to disappoint you, but my musical taste is on the side abba, verdi, and celine dion. i know this may not be popular and that you would have preferred me to be a satanist. < 1317519804 409637 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heritage by Opeth is /jazz fusion/ < 1317519808 890375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't know what jazz fusion is. < 1317519823 341683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitches Brew by Miles Davis is jazz fusion. < 1317519838 215123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like bitches brew, they should have banned people from making jazz fusion after that < 1317519848 15889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it's not all bad. < 1317519864 474881 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herbie Hancock has some nice jazz fusion. < 1317519865 862596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sissel kyrkjebø, for a scandinavian angle. < 1317519887 813795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just listen to wasps all day < 1317519890 83593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay it might be kind of jazz fusion < 1317519891 734648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not like that. < 1317519892 352662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual wasps < 1317519935 387655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is some eastern influenced as far as rhythmic complexity. < 1317519941 823795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d +s < 1317519959 794376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERESTING. ALBUM. GOOD. BAND. < 1317519985 616876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eastern influenced" is like the most tedious phrase i have ever heard < 1317519994 204923 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1317519997 636503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it inevitably means like < 1317520000 371578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we played some bongos" < 1317520003 300658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut the fuck up bongos are eastern < 1317520004 356389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not quite < 1317520014 128410 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring specifically to the rhythms < 1317520017 817424 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as played by electric guitar. < 1317520019 293531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bongo rhythms < 1317520027 178380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, oh wait this song has hand drums possibly bongos < 1317520035 394632 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO < 1317520049 365749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO70oJvrx4s < 1317520050 85254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :told < 1317520050 461816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1317520056 445784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they played some fucking bongos < 1317520058 871260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it totally sounds eastern okay. < 1317520064 724788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BONGOS. < 1317520121 19443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guitar riffs occasionally remind me of arabic flute melodies. < 1317520131 579321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY EASTERN IN OTHER WAYS OKAY < 1317520216 856397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also their heads are hanging from a tree. in the album art. < 1317520228 427399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes the music much better. < 1317520281 448771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oi where should i put < 1317520282 858233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :showConcatMap < 1317520500 819141 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are obviously listening to this awesome song right now as we speak and noting that it is entirely a mixture of jazz, eastern, and metal influences. < 1317520511 911440 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fact is undeniable. < 1317520516 80768 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not tedious. < 1317520534 163819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skipped around it, it was boring, then i went back to asking oerjan where to put showConcatMap < 1317520558 107573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, well yeah... it's going to be boring if you skip around. Many songs require patience. < 1317520564 7459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317520584 972650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you lose the effect of the transitions. < 1317520612 256680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in things that aren't like palm superglue applied to a forehead < 1317520616 282447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHERE SHOULD I PUT SHOCONCCAMCPTEMWC < 1317520643 47728 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perpetual facepalm? < 1317520668 908033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a... strange notion. < 1317520733 305100 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that a contravariant is something like (a -> b) -> f b -> f a and I noticed the similarity with what I have convert :: (f -> f') -> (b' -> b) -> Barrier f b t -> Barrier f' b' t so is this partially contravariant? < 1317521213 308963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MC.ZALGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO_HeCOMES.showConcatMap < 1317521237 612182 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-253.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317521241 282198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-230-193.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317521268 183008 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlepful < 1317521279 73238 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :five stars < 1317521283 484204 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :five stars hlepful < 1317521365 158457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it is afaict contravariant in b and covariant in f < 1317521384 982299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanenkes < 1317521386 497076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also covariant in t, since it's a monad < 1317521404 91024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and thus essentially a functor) < 1317521466 274369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nwhere put showConcatMap... < 1317521500 138339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no clue,,., < 1317521505 549793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help < 1317521523 697240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC.ShowConcatMap.showConcatMap < 1317521547 110209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically the fields of a data definition are in covariant position, as is the last argument of -> but the first one is contravariant. (and things that are in covariant position inside a type inherit its overall variance, while contravariant positions reverse it. < 1317521551 409149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1317521610 121882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in data A = A ((a -> b) -> (c -> d) e , there a, d and e are all covariant while b and c are contravariant. < 1317521646 71757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dont like u < 1317521671 59289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have data Barrier f b t = Unit t | Barrier f (b -> Barrier f b t) | Fail String; mean that it is contravariant in b (the back type) is that it? < 1317521709 393634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we have data A x y = A ((x -> y) -> (y -> y) x , then A x y is covariant in x since all occurrences of x are in covariant position, but invariant in y since that occurs in both covariant and contravariant position. < 1317521738 823116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i may have made up the term co-/contravariant position here, since i don't know the official terms) < 1317521794 26692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Barrier f b t is covariant in f and t but contravariant in b < 1317521809 946439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only relevant thing under "contravariant" on Wikipedia seem to be "contravariant functor", nothing about "contravariant position". < 1317521831 305652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. It is what I thought. Now I can write that in the report. < 1317521842 100481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no i just made that up to explain how you decide whether it is < 1317521855 139371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure someone has made an algorithm that is similar, though < 1317521880 478017 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "Barrier f b t is covariant in f and t but contravariant in b" < 1317521940 862691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covariance_and_contravariance_(computer_science) is relevant, i think < 1317521993 792661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that's based on subtyping, it's essentially from the same category theory, i think < 1317522029 629790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that since haskell doesn't have subtyping, you need to pass the conversion function as well < 1317522062 131470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in category theory, a functor is essentially a map _from_ conversion functions (the arrows) < 1317522062 199498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That article doesn't look like it to me. The article about functors seems more like what it is, to me. < 1317522084 554606 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317522111 541748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it is the same basic idea applied to two slightly different purposes < 1317522121 521733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is usual in category theory :P < 1317522180 886276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess in that case, the subtyping relations are the arrows, while in the haskell case, actual functions are the arrows < 1317522211 278380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that case = that computer science article) < 1317522225 110200 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1317522444 231530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is i believe also related to parametricity, a property of haskell polymorphic functions < 1317522455 902553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was the lambdabot command again < 1317522463 889693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does it mean, covariance mean you can have (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b) and contravariance means you can have (a -> b) -> (f b -> f a) for some f? < 1317522472 508527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free (a -> b) -> (a -> b) < 1317522472 615506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern match failure in do expression at Plugin/Free/FreeTheorem.hs:54:20-34 < 1317522478 37276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do something else? < 1317522478 412271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1317522483 211651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: (a -> b) -> (a -> b) < 1317522483 556485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h . k = p . g => h . f k = f p . g < 1317522500 207494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means that, yes < 1317522602 743570 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317522627 708822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: oerjan < 1317522628 59050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :g f = f < 1317522635 639934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1317522644 767965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1317522651 295423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because g has to be fully polymorphic < 1317522658 647458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free fix :: (a -> a) -> a < 1317522659 96519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f . g = h . f => f (fix g) = fix h < 1317522670 399328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1317522679 820146 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317522687 247363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: Oerjan < 1317522687 387643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = f < 1317522701 200584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?help free < 1317522701 483488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :free . Generate theorems for free < 1317522720 788651 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks free < 1317522731 288708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1317522731 566488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > Data.Foldable.foldMap shows [0,9] "" < 1317522731 635544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "09" < 1317522736 192942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks to ion in #haskell < 1317522747 607288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so beautiful :DD < 1317522767 890437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t shows < 1317522768 214728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, i thought that didn't work... < 1317522768 598987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => a -> String -> String < 1317522782 633287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Foldable.foldMap < 1317522783 538343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a m (t :: * -> *). (Data.Foldable.Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1317522786 989073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1317522789 548128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > Data.Foldable.foldMap shows [0,9] "oh dear" < 1317522789 797492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "0oh dear9oh dear" < 1317522801 703063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1317522815 86891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CHEATING SCUM < 1317522815 263416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this monoid instance < 1317522836 856643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: instance (Monoid b) => Monoid (a -> b) < 1317522838 553797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with standard lifting < 1317522864 436411 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317522893 343451 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should use Endo then < 1317522896 156691 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that work < 1317522899 70357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seem to me, it follow monad laws, from the code, as well as from trying it, but I don't know how to make a proper proof; do you know how? Barrier a c >>= f = Barrier a $ c >=> f; < 1317522905 99939 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala < 1317522905 745231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: tons of overhead man < 1317522905 923011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n b n' o'. (Newtype n o, Newtype n' o') => (o -> n) -> ((o -> n) -> b -> n') -> b -> o' < 1317522908 461120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317522917 31694 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1317522922 37029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317522925 513295 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhead? syntactically you mean < 1317522928 412139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage newtype < 1317522928 478767 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with ala < 1317522928 808637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/newtype < 1317522932 985208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependency etc. < 1317522941 517887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually just referencing ala to remind myself what it did < 1317522944 125160 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not suggesting it < 1317522961 824905 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remembered there was something named ala that did newtype stuff but that's it < 1317522977 266272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should use type families and not use the word newtype < 1317522980 62074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapper or something < 1317523073 728257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src >=> < 1317523073 967605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. < 1317523074 818209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo . Data.Foldable.foldMap (Endo . shows) [0.9] $ "oh dear" < 1317523075 576251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> Data.Monoid.Endo a1' < 1317523075 684638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1317523077 793881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (>=>) < 1317523077 944463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Maybe if you used more than just two fingers... < 1317523078 655333 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1317523104 414972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well that's equivalent to Barrier a $ \x -> c x >>= f, and i assume (>=>) is defined so that holds even if it's not already known to be a monad... < 1317523105 321066 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo . Data.Foldable.foldMap (Endo . shows) [0,9] $ "oh dear" < 1317523106 2410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> Data.Monoid.Endo a1' < 1317523106 253207 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1317523107 83626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ala Endo foldMap < 1317523108 215673 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooops < 1317523130 640602 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im being dumb but yes that would work maybe help < 1317523137 116497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; ;_;; _; < 1317523252 974549 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+_+ < 1317523268 391757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :%> best emoticon < 1317523312 48392 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, time to go get drunk and play Brawl. < 1317523315 475548 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be like a drunken brawl. < 1317523315 579856 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i think i see what i did wrong, the dumbest mestake < 1317523318 451303 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except we're nerds. < 1317523330 450288 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1317523350 374195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll finally playtest some portal chess. < 1317523353 427700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo (Data.Foldable.foldMap (Endo . shows) [0,9]) "oh dear" < 1317523354 798293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "09oh dear" < 1317523355 413680 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make this relevant to esolangs somehow. < 1317523357 486624 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317523359 653287 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you know the game Tetanus on Drugs? You don't need to be drunk to play tetris because you can program the computer to be drunk for you. < 1317523366 93341 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not using $ like an idiot: saves the day < 1317523371 677243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1317523382 396901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tetanus on Drugs sounds bad. < 1317523383 502332 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You assume (>=>) is defined... what? Its definition is what you have specified; what how do you do the proof? < 1317523386 153371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAYS MUST GO. < 1317523432 891706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pineight.com/tod/ < 1317523451 526239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're familiar with the Soviet Mind Game that involves stacking tetrominoes, or geometric shapes composed of four square blocks, inside a well. But have you ever played it while high? LOCKJAW: The Overdose simulates what it might be like to play the Soviet Mind Game under the influence of marijuana, LSD, or other hallucinogenic drugs. < 1317523487 550978 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except that you do not need LSD or any other drugs because the computer can do it) < 1317523498 70783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well for Barrier a c >>= Unit = Barrier a $ \x -> c x -> Unit, and i think "coinduction" allows you to assume the law holds inside the outer constructor so then that's = Barrier a >>= \x -> c x = Barrier a c < 1317523521 402847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one case for the second law, i guess < 1317523533 241235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first law you have true by definition < 1317523550 626067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops < 1317523568 587376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zzo38: well for Barrier a c >>= Unit = Barrier a $ \x -> c x >>= Unit, and i think "coinduction" allows you to assume the law holds inside the outer constructor so then that's = Barrier a >>= \x -> c x = Barrier a c < 1317523623 482066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you have the other cases of the second law already < 1317523638 201727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is coinduction? < 1317523654 694807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have "return a >>= k = k a < 1317523659 451914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a technique used for proving properties of infinite datastructures in haskell < 1317523663 126517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1317523672 683584 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. < 1317523679 143246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other languages with "codata" < 1317523699 688345 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317523744 457147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not entirely clear on what it allows, but basically to prove that two values are equal, you need to prove that their outer data constructors are equal, and then you can assume inductively what you want to prove for the inner parts < 1317523809 774319 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317523845 619979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once we've shown that both sides we want equal are Barriers, we can treat the fields as fulfilling the laws. < 1317523897 191846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there might be complications if your definition looks deeper than one constructor, then you might have to prove that they're equal to that depth first, or something. < 1317523912 778297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317524163 299882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-198-46.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317524261 260592 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-230-193.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317524323 741035 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317524336 259014 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317524641 114475 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317524715 584741 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317524884 214716 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1317526011 630491 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-225-86.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317526021 285075 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-198-46.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317527545 752422 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317527714 16095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((+) :: a -> Int) 2 3 < 1317527714 730608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1317527714 936941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1317527791 96046 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Bai~ < 1317527798 62514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody implicit quantification < 1317527854 964835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or < 1317527890 19679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317527899 531299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait how would that work < 1317527905 72170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh without implicit quantification < 1317527906 4661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic ic ic < 1317527917 817650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't think there's an a that satisfies that :P < 1317527932 455279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops < 1317527945 750212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((+) :: Int -> a) 2 3 < 1317527946 629480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a' < 1317527946 707702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types.I... < 1317527951 393164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1317527952 142570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that didn't help < 1317527961 829945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did, lambdabot just cuts off too early < 1317527991 996091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it didn't, a = Int -> Int should work there < 1317528015 399319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I mean < 1317528020 872323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gave the right type in the message < 1317528031 281804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I would like is some kind of < 1317528032 536563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i was wondering if the new ConstraintKinds could be used to get more flexible lists of heterogeneous types < 1317528033 743089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::specialise foo :: t < 1317528038 639099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tells you the type variables < 1317528039 232239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1317528047 613245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::specialise (+) :: Int -> a -> b < 1317528049 7234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = Int < 1317528050 22501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b = Int < 1317528052 703436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) :: Int -> Int -> Int < 1317528120 127574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Any ctx where fromAny :: ctx a => a -> Any ctx < 1317528149 481009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then concatMap (show . fromAny) [Any (1::Int), Any "hello"] < 1317528172 787960 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317528175 438812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's cute < 1317528176 411284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the inside of show . fromAny is probably not polymorphic enough < 1317528177 449325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you have < 1317528184 333966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: forall ctx. [Any ctx]? < 1317528186 750943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I guess not < 1317528190 287425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from [] obvs < 1317528192 166592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [undefined] < 1317528194 139046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the type of < 1317528198 214503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Any (1::Int), Any "hello"] < 1317528199 343548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be? < 1317528208 135679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall ctx. (ctx Int, ctx String) => [Any ctx] < 1317528208 495370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317528227 210064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i missed an obvious type signature < 1317528241 27796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*concatMap (show . fromAny) [Any (1::Int), Any "hello" :: Any Show] < 1317528258 228280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it gets the right context in somewhere, i doubt it can deduce it < 1317528280 903497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um but that last type is THE BEST?? < 1317528301 424508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're lucky GHC shares the namespace of types and classes :P < 1317528310 819635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ConstraintKinds would never work, it'd cause tons of clashes < 1317528317 152481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1317528319 368776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/GHC/Haskell/ < 1317528353 86217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317528371 852635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was aiming for [Any Show], though < 1317528383 862073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it can infer contexts in reverse < 1317528406 700376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it can typecheck them :P < 1317528412 423224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that would be really powerful < 1317528422 132926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define ad-hoc classes just to use them with polymorphic lists like that < 1317528430 395754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically an HList except the types are unordered < 1317528433 927332 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317528436 932932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and much easier to operate on < 1317528482 129598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ask copumpkin, I bet he knows ;D < 1317528493 194499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was inspired by a discussion in r/programming about how haskell supports heterogenous lists/arbitrary length tuples badly < 1317528516 217720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(subthread of that bos slide thing, i think) < 1317528589 806617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hlists are pretty clunky < 1317528626 842396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now I have to dig up that thread :P < 1317528662 485439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ktxzn/running_a_startup_on_haskell/ < 1317528668 545281 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, found an annoying issue in yasm, guess I'll just have to fork it then < 1317528711 941852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, it doesn't implement the base offset parameter to structs that nasm has < 1317528734 120578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :type AnyFunc ctx b = forall a. ctx a => a -> b < 1317528772 960265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lol < 1317528773 28411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then concatMap ((show :: AnyFunc Show String) . fromAny) [Any (1::Int), Any "hello" :: Any Show] < 1317528776 704277 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to work around it by simply redefining the struc macro, but that breaks listfiles < 1317528804 99181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm might not need the last :: Any Show < 1317528805 213206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why that instead of what you had before? to avoid monomorphism stuff? < 1317528813 684080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can't you just work around the nasm bug? < 1317528822 41344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it needs to know that show should be polymorphic < 1317528828 78660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1317528842 378734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that won't even work either < 1317528856 678342 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1317528859 808864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why not < 1317528873 338965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fromAny needs to be polymorphic as well < 1317528884 437793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that existential types not allowed to escape thing, i think < 1317528909 95553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all of this untested of course, i'm not about to try to get ghc head working) < 1317528974 441198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can you believe my project has seriously been blocked for a day on where to put showConcatMap < 1317528983 705168 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1317528986 982637 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happens to me all the time < 1317528988 837817 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ;_; < 1317528993 315740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have a ghc head source tree :P < 1317529007 610725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well then you can try this out :P < 1317529025 239472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suspect it still won't quite work < 1317529028 790888 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes I just every day forget to work < 1317529029 906839 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooops < 1317529058 106192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some higher order rank-n function to tell show what type to take < 1317529078 773452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /me sees __j_random_hacker in that comment thread, mental spam filter kicks in, saves me effort of reading a stupid comment < 1317529096 518825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he a baD erpson < 1317529098 957635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is the guy who argued with ais that a TC proof still counted even though it blatantly used finite memory because real-world computers do) < 1317529100 721311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should probably have a type like (forall a. ctx a => a -> b) -> Any ctx -> b < 1317529105 943458 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh,,, < 1317529115 174781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've seen a research paper in which a guy explains how to make a version of zip that takes an arbitrary number of inputs (unlike the fixed-size versions that run out at zip7) using a concept called applicative functors, but talk about making hard work of a simple, common kind of expressiveness!" < 1317529116 337740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best part < 1317529118 299647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONTROL.APPLICATIVE < 1317529119 184604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ESOTERIC < 1317529119 927555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HARD < 1317529124 413845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he is a bad person < 1317529139 950081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It would be enough for me if there was a way in Haskell to map over the elements of a nested tuple like (42, ("a string", (123.45, ()))), but the following attempt fails typechecking: < 1317529140 84826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :map_nested_tuple f () = () < 1317529140 152803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :map_nested_tuple f (a, b) = (f a, map_nested_tuple f b)" < 1317529142 709618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :withAny :: (forall a. ctx a => a -> b) -> Any ctx -> b < 1317529142 729097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude hasn't heard of typeclasses < 1317529155 77682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :withAny f (Any x) = f x < 1317529168 271598 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's *almost* possible to work around, but only by making the code wrong in the opposite way from what nasm got wrong - and getting it to generate the code I want (RIP-relative offset to an absolute address) seems to actually be impossible < 1317529183 82973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I hate it when people go ENUMERATING THE DATA TYPES IN MY HETEROGENEOUS AS A UNION ISN'T EXTENSIBLE BECAUSE CLIENT CODE HAS TO BE MODIFIED WHEN I ADD A TYPE < 1317529193 934716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck is client code meant to process a heterogeneous list if it doesn't know anything about what it contains anyway??? < 1317529206 190350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhmmm that mapping over a nested tuple looks like a job for syb..................but why are you doing that nested tuple anyway why why why why why why why ugh I hate him so much already < 1317529209 738439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then maybe that's enough to get concatMap (withAny show) [Any (1::Int), Any "hello" :: Any Show] to work < 1317529213 928863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :either I can get absolute addressing (1 byte bigger!) or I can get RIP-relative adressing with the absolute address as the offset < 1317529224 771486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: dude, just use "db" < 1317529232 325788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to inline some machine code for that specific thing < 1317529234 610300 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: typeclass methods, you sadistic abstraction violator < 1317529245 621781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1317529248 123167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: so it's a homogeneous list < 1317529250 442185 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the offset depends on the location of that code, which is what I use the assembler to figure out < 1317529261 425422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\(Any x) -> show x) should work, shouldn't it < 1317529261 856450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: of whatever that typeclass contains < 1317529268 211406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even... < 1317529278 726565 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you got a list of Any? < 1317529281 111669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\(Any x :: Any Show) -> show x) < 1317529289 855819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: what i am saying and what oerjan is talking about are separate :) < 1317529295 116316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: ok maybe a bad name, i think ghc uses it for something else < 1317529295 916018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan's Any is a clash, not the same < 1317529302 327690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ghc uses Any as a datatype you can cast anything to < 1317529303 935082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend it's called Some < 1317529305 302178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cast out of as the same type < 1317529308 311097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i recall < 1317529312 165665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well can't you just define a macro < 1317529322 172143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that gets the position, arithmetics it up and then "db"s it in as the instruction < 1317529394 522165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : dude hasn't heard of typeclasses <-- i was a bit surprised no one had mentioned it < 1317529406 194811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /r/programming is not a good venue for haskell discussion. < 1317529460 382141 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, that'd work (and at least it's not as bad as writing it all in a hex editor) < 1317529469 683296 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... now I found an assembler that actually does what it's supposed to do (after a three-line change to the builtin struc macro anyway) < 1317529471 263307 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317529481 994646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well if you're writing the same thing over and over it should be in a macro anyway < 1317529503 175986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just send a patch to the yasm folks < 1317529523 860939 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I intend to < 1317529555 542266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I like how software projects gradually build up more and more barriers to entry < 1317529556 700707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1317529560 945393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first it's "install nasm, type make" < 1317529568 678956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's "get yasm, apply this patch, compile yasm, type make" < 1317529585 98967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few years, you'll need to install build infrastructure and have it download and compile dependencies for a few hours < 1317529589 769354 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a courtesan < 1317529650 256518 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-225-86.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317529678 895133 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, or just download the already-setup VM image with all the custom and forked build tools installed < 1317529703 329131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: are you the kind of person who deludes themselves into thinking that's a low barrier to entry, or the kind of person who mocks those people? :P < 1317529706 522497 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have to install the VM < 1317529708 958221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's only a gigabyte, too < 1317529715 324389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and don't use virtualbox version xx, it has a bug that... < 1317529720 155985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few years after that, you need a special forked hypervisor that can still run that VM image and operating system < 1317529720 330977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and remember to disable USB < 1317529724 373359 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is xx a wildcard? < 1317529731 987373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: i can't type numbers < 1317529733 935447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta get creative < 1317529740 553470 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a CPU emulator, because everyone's moved to reducerons by then < 1317529757 220835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if that happens, your OS will be pretty obsolet < 1317529757 707891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1317529775 274091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can just use the CPU emulator they need for your OS :P < 1317529793 711596 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's the same one as the one that runs the build environment :P < 1317529810 615975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1317529826 790121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if we'll have inaccurate xeightsix emulators one day < 1317529827 762083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1317529828 120987 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are still some programs sold exclusively for DOS. < 1317529829 797239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for retrogaming < 1317529837 921173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they suffer the SNES problem of nobody ever fucking checks with the hardware < 1317529844 441514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just piles on hacks to get the vintage classic "call of duty" working < 1317529846 598445 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. Most x86 games have been crap < 1317529859 473323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh... there have been a LOT of x86 games < 1317529868 434816 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :One only hopes we will realize this before it is too late < 1317529869 845696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hundreds upon hundreds of worthwhile ones < 1317529870 335571 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 has much less need for accuracy than SNES. < 1317529886 324188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but you have no idea the kind of emulation reduceron 9000s are good at < 1317529891 8053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wack < 1317529906 595881 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got a CPU with indeterminate timing hooked to a bus with indeterminate timing hooked to RAM and disk with indeterminate timing. < 1317529911 91320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I would say there are probably at least ten times as many worthwhile x86 games as there were SNES games, in total. < 1317529916 932143 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an emulator author's wet dream. < 1317529941 812309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like there were 784 SNES games. < 1317529947 7199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'll take that back. < 1317529955 837007 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like the US SNES library. < 1317529960 60570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But two thousand worthwhile x86 games? Sounds possible. < 1317529964 198102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "721 in NA, 533 in EU and 470 in both" < 1317529971 435607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 1442 for the super famicom < 1317529976 507129 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1317529986 402319 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup. < 1317529994 799999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Anyway, I mean, people write "top one hundred PC games" lists all the time, and I'm sure there are some with very little dreck < 1317530018 688989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if there were two thousand games that people in the future will want to play regardless of nostalgia < 1317530019 407717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a place I was a summer intern at had a similar problem (you know, in the real world), their 15 year deal to supply the exact hardware required for this system (and its OS) was running out and no existing virtualization/emulator had good enough support to boot the OS (yet) < 1317530039 18542 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One of the things that'll help *dramatically* for hypothetical future x86 emulators is that, past DOS, most of the hardware is actually abstracted. < 1317530051 110467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: like the nintendo sixtyfour kinda < 1317530054 847334 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You literally will have no need to understand how the sound card, GPU, etc. actually worked. < 1317530059 721433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1317530059 744495 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fact is, every PC "game of the year" makes the last few rounds of PC "games of the year" obsolete < 1317530060 292526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreso < 1317530062 393534 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll just need to write drivers for your virtual device. < 1317530078 514137 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not quite. The only reason N64's HLL works is that game authors were lazy. < 1317530079 505202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: who gives a shit about game of the year? < 1317530084 286793 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they nearly all fit cleanly into a few genres < 1317530090 139794 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You actually uploaded bytecode to the N64's GPU. < 1317530092 642323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1317530101 838055 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most game authors just used a stock bytecode. < 1317530106 933637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you see the fallacy of people who say "MODERN MUSIC SUX, JUST LOOK AT THE TOP FORTY" < 1317530112 43014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the same argument but for games < 1317530123 249254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haha < 1317530177 868628 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few games wrote their own. You can tell because they look 10 times better. < 1317530183 512644 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what kinds of games get into "top one hundred PC games" lists < 1317530196 311877 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Generic shooters 1 through 100. < 1317530216 424554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: dunno, probably pretty bad, but I wasn't really referring to any given mainstream publication, and the point is that one /could/ write such a list and have very little dreck in it < 1317530230 512883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sure people have < 1317530242 789397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply by all the games they won't have ever heard of < 1317530248 180916 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably name about... ten PC games I would play again < 1317530282 94511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's your favourite platform? I strongly suspect you're just blinded by nostalgia shades :P < 1317530298 342814 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never owned a console or anything < 1317530320 263605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: maybe you just don't like games? < 1317530328 7807 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317530332 728770 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, maybe they just don't impress me < 1317530349 424610 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite bad for them, because I should be easily impressed < 1317530352 869445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, if you say you've never owned any kind of games console at all and can only think of ten PC games you'd play again < 1317530353 594211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1317530357 928754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds to me like you don't dislike PC games < 1317530358 669752 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10? Only 10? Hell, that's nice and easy. You could probably pull that without leaving Valve. < 1317530360 582068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just dislike video games < 1317530377 108455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has completely different implications < 1317530398 704259 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Ep. 1, Ep. 2, Portal, Portal 2. Okay, there's 6 without even struggling. < 1317530399 893813 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to like video games, but they're not letting me < 1317530412 970605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: so what are those ten games, out of interest < 1317530429 796971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i have never played any half-life game, im cool < 1317530434 992107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my fiction backlog is literally the longest thing) < 1317530493 136530 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq seems to have a high regard of the half-life engine < 1317530531 326390 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: The engine sucks worse than Minecraft's. < 1317530611 325358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet won't list me games :'( < 1317530628 388894 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Portal, Mirror's Edge, Master of Orion 2, Rainbow Six, TES: Oblivion... < 1317530633 529483 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, running out of steam here < 1317530646 870124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Rainbow Six suck (I have never played it) < 1317530649 344039 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Um, you suck. < 1317530650 691236 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(games that I would play again) < 1317530670 89016 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you realise that "PC games" spans 3 decades, right? :) < 1317530690 103983 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my list spans at least 2 decades < 1317530690 620175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Oblivion was pretty bad too :P < 1317530710 309372 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you t3h suck. < 1317530715 215667 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just putting that out there. :P < 1317530715 891511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it spans two, and 1998 is like two years off not spanning two :P < 1317530731 229501 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, where are your great early PC games < 1317530742 433481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh orion is 1996 < 1317530749 763798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: mother < 1317530750 340494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data (:=>) ctx t where Some :: ctx => t -> (ctx :=> t); main = print $ concatMap (\(Some x :: Show t :=> t) -> show x) [Some (1::Int), Some "hello"] < 1317530750 695113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckin' < 1317530751 346521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alley < 1317530752 2049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat < 1317530762 632920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1317530765 565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who doesn't think alley cat is the best game < 1317530765 623922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1317530766 920336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1317530767 755584 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: RTS; the entire genre. < 1317530769 381737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't ever talk to me again < 1317530773 251202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: alley cat: the best? < 1317530776 838564 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a few you like. < 1317530777 834253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :') it am beautiful < 1317530781 901122 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, Starcraft. < 1317530793 858539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tpyo: "ctx =>" < 1317530796 45209 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably also a couple of Command & Conquer. < 1317530797 975387 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starcraft is a pretty sad argument for "RTS; the entire genre" < 1317530809 980796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'm not letting pikhq say another word until he confirms to me that < 1317530813 67109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) he has played Alley Cat; and < 1317530814 734050 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :C&C was at least humorous < 1317530816 811869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) he agrees that it is the best game ever. < 1317530819 419575 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have not played Alley Cat. < 1317530822 980431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet ever written any PC game that boots; they require DOS. But probably it uses not a lot of things and can make it compile to run directly with the PC BIOS by changing a few things (such as making a compiler that does that) < 1317530831 119153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um OK so you are downloading it to rectify this situation now correct? < 1317530858 632769 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Also, many an adventure game... < 1317530862 216051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/24/Alley+Cat.html < 1317530868 853070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pls play, thans. < 1317530875 731816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's literally as old as the IBM PC. < 1317530881 800081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I haven't played many an adventure game. < 1317530882 846170 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baldur's Gate... < 1317530889 172425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no. < 1317530891 604685 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially anything by Sierra < 1317530892 875647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three years older than the IBM PC. < 1317530896 354825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Sierra games are terrible. < 1317530898 960300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1317530904 712292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whoops, i don't think it will work, darn t implicitly quantified probably < 1317530909 261138 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, large pile of WRPGs. < 1317530927 833240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Excuse me you are about two minutes away from playing Alley Cat in DOSBox. < 1317530932 717378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use these minutes wisely?? < 1317530949 823093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: tpyo: "ctx =>" <-- there's supposed to be one ctx => and one ctx :=> in there, that's the point < 1317530949 961168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally fifty kilobytes of a single executable file. < 1317530963 322495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That executable file is "CAT.EXE" and if there was a Unix port I would give up my ability to concatenate files to have it. < 1317530965 223915 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-135.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317530966 355424 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File:Hardcore_heart.png this is a laugh riot < 1317530966 740113 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is so literal sometimes < 1317530966 877693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, okay < 1317530981 523193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: pikhq: Excuse me you are about two minutes away from playing Alley Cat in DOSBox. Use these minutes wisely?? It is literally fifty kilobytes of a single executable file. That executable file is "CAT.EXE" and if there was a Unix port I would give up my ability to concatenate files to have it. < 1317530998 951415 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the last time I really had to concatenate files < 1317531000 192130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: YOU'RE so literal sometimes. And I bet you haven't played Alley Cat either. I am going to play Alley Cat now. < 1317531035 88815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alley_Cat_video_game_theme_song.ogg < 1317531036 864265 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there's some Javascript DOS emulator somewhere? < 1317531039 96908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally the best. < 1317531045 663504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You mean a DOS xeightsix emulator? < 1317531046 881837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317531049 884825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You mean a JS xeightsix emulator? < 1317531051 14373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds FAST. < 1317531053 833836 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Maybe but that would seem to be very good idea < 1317531058 500896 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run DOSBox in Bellard's x86 emulator < 1317531062 696434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/would/would not/ < 1317531066 135686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how fast did Bellard's go anyway < 1317531076 496247 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you won't even need to compensate for clock speed < 1317531079 636166 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better idea is running native code instead of JavaScript < 1317531099 939110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude it literally works in DOSBox with just "dosbox CAT.EXE". < 1317531107 538119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have less than no excuse to not play this masterpiece of gaming. < 1317531126 913691 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remind me to play next Thursday < 1317531160 876016 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric : ONLY IF NEXT THURSDAY IS NOW < 1317531189 272253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make some PC game that is not DOS, you can run it using Bochs or something else like that, or copy the disk image to a floppy disk and then reboot your computer (if it is PC, that is) < 1317531193 267711 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-47.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317531210 958717 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no inclination to reboot his computer just to play a game
< 1317531213 531223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God this game is hard. Jafet: Play Alley Cat and your list will have eleven elements. < 1317531215 231452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: DOSBox. < 1317531218 96999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use an emulator < 1317531223 911461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably won't even work on modern Windows. < 1317531229 43575 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might be part of why I'd rather single-boot into Windows than dual-boot like a sane person < 1317531237 475105 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was referring to what zzo38 said < 1317531248 47804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Play alley cat. < 1317531254 748648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVERRR < 1317531257 727980 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on Thursday, I will < 1317531260 381781 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-135.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Alley Cat actually does work on non-x86_64 Windows. < 1317531268 155145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Um excuse me now is better than Thursday. < 1317531273 831126 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have homework to do on Sunday, then Monday Tuesday Wednesday I have school < 1317531276 993634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is objective fact < 1317531283 740387 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have to go eat and sleep at some point < 1317531300 271924 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm eating at 1AM :( < 1317531352 312785 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you eat? Paper, or ice? < 1317531359 315931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always go for ice. < 1317531376 721813 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pasta. With parmesan cheese. < 1317531380 956464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, paper < 1317531382 548781 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has become my perpetual dinner. < 1317531384 900933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1317531450 940291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the cat manages to kiss the female cat in the special room, the level advances by one and the player gains an extra life. The games difficulty level continues to increase until multiplier level 30 at which point it stays the same. Gameplay at this level can continue indefinitely. The goal is to see how far one can go before running out of lives." < 1317531452 979580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love games like that. < 1317531467 57109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win! LET'S PLAY AGAIN BUT HARDER!!!! < 1317531470 566682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVER < 1317531487 490111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (c1 t, c2 t) => (:|) c1 c2 t; instance (c1 t, c2 t) => (:|) c1 c2 t, would that be enough for (c1 :| c2) t to be equivalent to (c1 t, c2 t) (but possible to use in * -> Constraint arguments) < 1317531500 222355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can do < 1317531511 1645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Foo c1 c2 t = (c1 t, c2 t) < 1317531529 418855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not partially applicable though... < 1317531531 577998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but type synonyms are not legal type arguments unless fully expandable < 1317531533 568088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Foo? :p < 1317531561 240913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, you mean a type wrapping a constraint... < 1317531573 383705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should also be a kind for the classes constraint, called & < 1317531596 478051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1317531604 454682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: classes constraint? < 1317531717 434476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, what I mean is have classes also have a kind, allowing in a constraint to left of => and even multiple => can be had, allow classes of classes, etc. < 1317531753 299170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Classes have the kind (* -> Constraint). < 1317531763 296136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they have a separate kind all to themselves when that works? < 1317531801 709340 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I dislike having the capitalized name for kinds since they are otherwise uncapitalized symbols, so they should be called & instead of Constraint < 1317531820 358872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Nat is capitalised too < 1317531833 969951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should call it + instead of Nat < 1317531835 433474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the kinds other than * and maybe ? will be renamed to be alphabetical sometime < 1317531839 193982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was a historical mistake < 1317531890 379831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if this constraintkind thing takes off they're going to want polymorphic kinds soon, and then they'll need lower-case words for variables < 1317531928 808466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they should use lowercase words for variables. But the built-in kind should be symbols. < 1317531936 825329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make up your own kind then they should be letters. < 1317531990 724755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Does musl still break C++? < 1317532034 596569 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-135.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1317532042 443081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :( < 1317532106 315534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Any work on that? < 1317532214 871289 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-135.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1317532243 694914 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl? < 1317532244 858226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That's a huge shame, since it means you'd have to build WebKit with uClibc + libc++ or something. < 1317532250 420110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: http://www.etalabs.net/musl/ < 1317532318 508585 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn
< 1317532326 887108 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't see glibc on that comparision chart
< 1317532357 830066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: eglibc is shipped in most major Linux distributions. < 1317532382 622985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Red Hat/Fedora is the only really popular distro shipping glibc nowadays since Debian and Ubuntu ship eglibc. < 1317532391 564685 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this have anything to do with that guy? < 1317532393 190932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do SUSE do? < 1317532413 370636 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Red Hat guy who's kind of a prick < 1317532430 616020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: That is one of the reasons glibc was abandoned. < 1317532443 764406 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1317532459 34571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eglibc encourage people to send changes upstream and pull from glibc too, so... < 1317532467 33294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't exactly eliminate Drepper entirely. < 1317532469 830795 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317532480 63061 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Ulrich Drepper? < 1317532493 398603 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: name sounds very familiar, so I think so < 1317532505 98527 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a dick and a moron. < 1317532515 115240 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pretends race conditions are non-issues. < 1317532524 370609 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did he get to be in a position of such control over glibc? < 1317532537 112263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Because he's competent. < 1317532542 447412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, less so recently.) < 1317532548 478577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But Red Hat don't hire useless people.) < 1317532554 709355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well OK they probably do, but not to work on libc.) < 1317532582 790237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, huh < 1317532587 848268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently Drepper works at Goldman Sachs. < 1317532588 297044 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually pretty funny: dalias keeps finding bugs in musl that also exist in glibc. < 1317532597 810034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, er. < 1317532598 79657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GNU_C_Library&diff=451751748&oldid=450654445 < 1317532602 117247 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drepper says, roughly, "fuck off". < 1317532603 958134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not an accurate contrib. < 1317532620 597701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, nope. < 1317532621 756790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linkedin.com/in/ulrichdrepper < 1317532629 826297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left Red Hat last year. < 1317532634 802973 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-135.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317532776 34844 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much malloc? < 1317532803 373155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: What? < 1317532811 590250 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the comparison chart < 1317532821 418474 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention to corner cases: Too much malloc < 1317532841 230891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: i.e. prone to allocating too much and the like < 1317532873 634929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it more exploitable if you can get the application to pass ridiculous things < 1317532921 281943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCB passwords are really nice < 1317532930 787374 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCB passwords? < 1317532931 199541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a way to get them without PAM < 1317532937 935433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: "TCB passwords are a feature from Openwall which move the password hashes from /etc/shadow to /etc/tcb/username/shadow. This allows users to change passwords and allows programs running as the user (for example, screen lockers) to authenticate the user's password without special suid or sgid privileges." < 1317533046 724045 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317533070 259484 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, huh. That makes sense. Except a malicious program running as a user can get a copy of the has to attempt to crack... but hmm, why would it need to? To attempt to sudo, I guess < 1317533079 9528 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy of the has -> copy of the hash < 1317533149 575263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: That risk is far lesser than the risk of running anything at all setuid root < 1317533173 396550 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a malicious program running as a user can already fuck a lot of things up. < 1317533187 738739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's little worry about adding one *tiny* thing extra to that. < 1317533198 1113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Also, it's easier to social engineer the password out of the user at that point < 1317533204 463485 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truth. < 1317533246 287203 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess checkpasswd() which may delay or refuse to give an answer is still too much to trust with setuid? < 1317533272 729594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't setuid a function. < 1317533290 900051 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program, I guess, then < 1317533303 69866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd have uncomfortable implications for "ps" < 1317533310 834754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1317533314 415532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how a program can exploit that < 1317533318 638654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Continually run ps -A as the user < 1317533323 593105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you see "checkpasswd", snab that line < 1317533325 260128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hash is in it < 1317533343 37381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, checkpassword could null out that element of its argv instantly, but still, if we're going on hypotheticals < 1317533350 308486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Anyway, chpasswd isn't implementable with checkpasswd. < 1317533355 777442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1317533356 974199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ch// < 1317533387 557267 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, erm. A malicious program could change the password without ever knowing the password. < 1317533442 813683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: A malicious program can change the user's password today. < 1317533449 32677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because users are allowed to change their own passwords. < 1317533451 73794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking, isn't it? < 1317533480 263370 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the whatever needed for that asked for the password first < 1317533494 234285 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(current password) < 1317533520 838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, but it's hardly a major step for a malicious program to get that. < 1317533525 510518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're really operating at the "already lost" stage here. < 1317533543 257842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1317533544 197211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openwall.com/presentations/Owl/mgp00020.html < 1317533552 827414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like they might restrict writing of the file to the shadow group, and just setgid is used < 1317533827 549650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Michael S. Hart was only 64 < 1317533889 886439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they should implement all the security beyond the standard UNIX security stuff by ptrace < 1317533929 393516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing more wonderful than a maybe. < 1317533996 139162 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace(PTRACE_ATTACH, 1) < 1317534017 155642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that includes ptrace itself. < 1317534039 309418 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg < 1317534062 845587 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He never saught actual medical care? < 1317534207 878754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: For what < 1317534326 366485 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Good point. In general I guess, but that might not actually be connected to his death < 1317534380 358139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no illnesses mentioned at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Hart < 1317534387 509833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having a heart attack is not exactly something predictable < 1317534438 696559 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say "Good point" < 1317534505 579428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to know what the hell you think he should have sought "actual medical care" for :P < 1317534558 112348 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general. < 1317534562 316887 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than "home remedies" < 1317534589 440805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you place your bets on the Dungeons & Dragons game? < 1317534687 235440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: It is not necessary to visit a doctor every time you have a cold. < 1317534697 723063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no implication that he tried to cure cancer with some herbs. < 1317535161 614827 :hesus!a@bzq-84-108-85-142.cablep.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317535166 397610 :hesus!a@bzq-84-108-85-142.cablep.bezeqint.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1317535899 569621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect :: Barrier f () t -> [f]; collect x = maybe [] (: collect (continue x ())) $ approach x; uncollect :: [x] -> Barrier x a (); uncollect = mapM_ yield; What would this be called in a mathematics? Note they are different types, although the type (as well as the value, ignoring undefined cases) will be the same if type a and t are both () < 1317535920 86852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is a mathematics. < 1317535941 699621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then ask oerjan. < 1317536134 651459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ask oerjan :( < 1317536155 396958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect and uncollect are probably natural transformations < 1317536258 876221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect is a natural transformation from the functor Barrier _ () t to the functor [_], although only the second one is a Functor in the haskell sense < 1317536279 192275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's only because haskell functors need to be on the last type parameter < 1317536288 37699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haskell Functors < 1317536354 581551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you defined a function (f -> g) -> Barrier f () t -> Barrier g () t, then that would essentially be the functor mapping < 1317536392 196695 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you call it barrierFrontMap, say < 1317536453 513436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then collect . barrierFrontMap h = map h . collect, the equation for it being a natural transformation < 1317536496 583160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similarly uncollect . map h = barrierFrontMap h . uncollect < 1317536579 566414 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Such a function does exist; it is called (flip convert id) < 1317536616 55598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, convert is a bifunctor, i think < 1317536639 388746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :covariant in one type and contravariant in the other < 1317536671 667825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so restricting one of the types to just apply id gives a single functor, either covariant or contravariant < 1317536685 876579 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is coppro awake? < 1317536720 755968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317536729 96636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean yes to oerjan) < 1317536731 672841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could probably even make a trifunctor that also changed the t type < 1317536746 35782 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, fmap changes the t type < 1317536750 346381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume they can be called that) < 1317536752 648763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is covariant < 1317536768 233804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can combine them if you wanted to. < 1317536775 397744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317536788 84998 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da_qEyGmog0&feature=feedf clatter clatter clatter < 1317536806 747691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bifunctor or trifunctor can also be seen as a single functor between product categories, iirc < 1317536824 663895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait hm < 1317536862 432537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would they have to be opposite product categories? < 1317536867 904950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317536877 510642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317536885 448592 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, if it is covariant in one type and contravariant in another) < 1317536905 962152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like (C^op X C) < 1317536920 266717 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's an interesting way to /part a channel. < 1317536933 460391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I just don't have it on autojoin. < 1317536943 336243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure this is right though. it might be something else than product < 1317536944 439318 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icy. < 1317536958 602805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It is what I meant. But I am unsure as you are too. < 1317536961 977088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly some tensor-like product < 1317536968 176819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than direct < 1317536987 204004 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My statement stands, I think. < 1317537046 82685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm i think it may be a functor from Hask^op X Hask to Hask < 1317537095 72784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the trifunctor would be from Hask^op X Hask X Hask < 1317537133 401621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit too tired for this < 1317537261 263253 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317537281 883445 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helllo < 1317537334 40062 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1317537339 656441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317537428 838196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd is so q < 1317537466 46677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nqevd < 1317537560 564118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317537579 947379 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what's going on here < 1317537611 700844 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngevd is so fly he fly away < 1317537659 739205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 and Gregor are both level 18 < 1317537665 95529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant is level 19 < 1317537677 924944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very active recent changes, today < 1317537679 117647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: wat < 1317537684 480937 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slakoth, whom I forgot to name, is level 15 < 1317537685 396000 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1317537688 885484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317537695 469829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :name a monkey monqy....... < 1317537697 857528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an elliott elliott < 1317537708 831643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are elliotts? < 1317537718 3745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be < 1317537726 396299 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea, like Gulpin < 1317537729 1749 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317537730 231872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make this (threaded cpp) code run faster? (code.google.com) < 1317537735 343050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for something much better than what I got < 1317537739 432854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded preprocessor :') < 1317537746 186482 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make code.google.com faster < 1317537751 673031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded preprocessor? < 1317537753 912260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317537754 470489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1317537755 237894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1317537756 739992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was c++ < 1317537759 167045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be cpp < 1317537760 358197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded cpp < 1317537763 794577 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded cpp < 1317537775 769830 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded cpp < 1317537781 440146 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who call c++ cpp should be hung from a shame and left to rot < 1317537782 471881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in shame < 1317537791 504428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So am I right in thinking that the way to get kernel releases right now is github.com/torvalds/linux? < 1317537794 921966 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :until they stop it < 1317537812 991871 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about alphanumeric contexts like file extensions and certain search engines < 1317537831 865399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.c++ is a perfectly OK file extension < 1317537837 74163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it, when playing C++ sudoku < 1317537839 480113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :search engines which think + is nothing so c++ is the same as c should also be hung from a shame < 1317537847 362129 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :google < 1317537850 897580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317537852 590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+"c++" works in google < 1317537856 153620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does c++ < 1317537857 534390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the same < 1317537863 981829 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to not work < 1317537865 248454 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it works now < 1317537868 268765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"c++ compiler" gives results only for c++ compilers < 1317537874 608598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it works now < 1317537877 968666 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last i checked it idnd;t < 1317537894 942273 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ sudoku? < 1317537906 259047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: The best game. < 1317537915 404598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsoe: I've seen more things .cc than .cpp but never .c++ but .c++ is good for c++ is good except c++ is bad so < 1317537919 302441 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best game < 1317537936 85448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically you have to replicate what would be ten lines in Haskell with C++ templates. < 1317537942 537466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably requiring C++0x magic. < 1317537944 735803 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cpp should be for programming in the C preprocessor, obviously < 1317537944 863140 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's name our programming language to be as hard to search for as possible.......... < 1317537954 191407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other fun tasks like implementing a strongly-typed boolean type in C++ fall under that too. < 1317537956 980640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is obscenely difficult. < 1317537958 891527 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpppp for the c++ preprocessor < 1317537964 116973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: .h is the standard C preprocessor extension < 1317537971 918487 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about .cccp? < 1317537981 955858 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of here pinko < 1317537984 808462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin + shachaf < 1317537985 226507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317537987 165680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1317538001 686134 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin + elliott < 1317538001 856154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538002 796253 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1317538002 902378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538007 86918 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! < 1317538007 154595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1317538010 463719 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1317538023 431539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise you can reverse that, but scripting that was bot < 1317538023 916271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1317538027 134680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) a small victory, and < 1317538033 33110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) really depressing when I thought about what I was doing. < 1317538036 988065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :freudian newline < 1317538040 758394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :... depressing? < 1317538043 739515 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I kind of suspected that when you @admin +ed me out of the blue. < 1317538044 568288 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1317538055 139665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I had to provoke you somehow. < 1317538061 14635 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?admin + elliott < 1317538061 185456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538063 292782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I don't want to be the kind of person who scripts these things just to one-up shachaf. < 1317538078 78623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It doesn't handle any additional spaces you might add. < 1317538079 93772 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curses. You got the question marks too. < 1317538082 515219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to know how to circumvent it. < 1317538104 808879 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn these people are good at ssbm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C​Q9c-2lAld4 < 1317538107 751651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1317538110 120446 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1317538114 841937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!admin + elliott < 1317538115 75756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538115 648493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538118 616804 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :,admin + elliott < 1317538118 753383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538119 100408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538121 265665 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.,admin + elliott < 1317538121 471914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538121 875431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538126 539284 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop flooding the channel, elliott. < 1317538133 884119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop flooding the channel, lambdabot. < 1317538135 412171 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is controlling two bots with one command.
< 1317538141 241932 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellibott < 1317538146 646139 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oadmin + elliott < 1317538146 813279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538147 389223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538147 702773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad? < 1317538149 357253 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :badmin + elliott < 1317538149 561283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538149 941512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538155 20808 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottadmin + elliott < 1317538155 159769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538155 666826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538166 12523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was an admin + elliott was awesome + everyone else was dead. < 1317538171 354415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it doesn't self-trigger. < 1317538188 736769 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ elliott < 1317538194 952522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf-- < 1317538196 877168 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-admin + elliott-- < 1317538197 21602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538197 449060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538212 685841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how it logs my response before shachaf's line. < 1317538224 721667 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ADMIN + elliott < 1317538224 857814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1317538224 965284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538225 387155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538232 185622 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough with the spam. < 1317538235 12076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it accounts for case? < 1317538251 834237 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u madmin + elliott < 1317538252 10193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538252 445922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538253 354682 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
admin + elliott
< 1317538253 558059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317538253 938543 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317538265 350933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: heh < 1317538391 223883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: also, admin + elliott < 1317538481 676026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Also, please help me to interrogate Frank < 1317538627 256334 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love < 1317538638 703246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love < 1317538645 864978 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :696) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love < 1317538659 458176 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-112.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317538666 543278 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'pastequotes Ngevd < 1317538669 947126 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-145.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317538671 910380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong quote. < 1317538718 590650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes Ngevd < 1317538721 956108 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28305 < 1317538778 456522 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it < 1317538783 725304 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work right < 1317538794 802569 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1317538841 582867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes taneb < 1317538844 350601 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2264 < 1317538877 174144 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is broken but is it on my side or the other < 1317538911 918541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WTF is a .2264 file"? < 1317538913 711997 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chromes download them to file instead of do it properly < 1317538923 797543 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox does similar < 1317538927 197378 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317538934 211804 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually works properly though < 1317538963 732130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the na,e of the theing that's porblaby emsted up thouyghew... < 1317538971 49101 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no my keybaord skills........ < 1317538997 382793 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries web-sniffer.net because he is lazy
< 1317539010 491850 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are tele < 1317539031 417282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be some encoding thing < 1317539041 74802 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Disposition: inline; filename="paste.2264" < 1317539062 899489 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that's what it should be, right? < 1317539079 79612 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: application/binary < 1317539084 243876 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1317539100 376672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be some encoding thing < 1317539105 33508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grehgor is this your faulte < 1317539107 21744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it looks like a binary file < 1317539109 165534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the browser < 1317539112 987625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or webserver or whatever < 1317539167 859540 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the webserver is thinking it's binary due to some encoding thing, the webserver is broken imo < 1317539179 447171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it supposed to do instead < 1317539190 996578 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get told what each file is, or something < 1317539201 535873 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume it's tertiary < 1317539201 919093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who encoded it badly.e... < 1317539206 54192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: neat < 1317539211 573737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: cue alternate universe Sgeo|web < 1317539217 265964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it have to be told what every file is < 1317539219 514642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken < 1317539233 48343 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god < 1317539240 228717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1317539242 23268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you < 1317539245 115702 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got back into Runescape < 1317539257 7950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317539258 262298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I';ve never into that at all ever < 1317539259 392628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop that < 1317539260 665573 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1317539260 843398 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION used to play a long time ago
< 1317539261 194387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1317539266 841454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease Ngevd cease < 1317539267 157531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iov'e never evenm < 1317539268 145809 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeen < 1317539268 453808 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1317539273 737090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: jsodfoj < 1317539274 622792 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still visit on occasion, but never more than a few minutes, and rarely do anything substantial < 1317539274 997946 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard only BAd < 1317539291 577584 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The music's nice < 1317539295 617868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: zdsklf;vxcb,vn.m < 1317539305 284859 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, there is no such thing as non-nice music, anywhere ever, so < 1317539321 801945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i distinctly remember Sgeo|web whining about his ears hurting after someone linking something in here < 1317539334 220618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just selectively define music < 1317539350 575289 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sometimes say things that aren't literal >.> < 1317539358 740548 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow me too < 1317539367 591414 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to like a _lot_ of soundtracks < 1317539382 598055 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should be saying things that aren't literal friends < 1317539433 53621 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finally parses that properly
< 1317539499 793683 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he could make Freenode's webchat look like Mibbit
< 1317539517 627903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mibbit < 1317539519 495462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paragon of design < 1317539535 612289 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo why would you want to do this < 1317539539 431433 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to flex your web muscleS???? < 1317539544 184956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuscles < 1317539549 983195 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flex them < 1317539550 995741 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over < 1317539553 979643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the freenode webchat < 1317539567 596632 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I get a consistent look between the other IRC channels I'm on and here < 1317539574 388440 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :networks < 1317539575 620782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was the freenode webchat i would be cowering and crying about now < 1317539585 396257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i want to die < 1317539587 381038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317539590 603554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1317539646 69065 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible evil idea: Setting up a proxy on my computer to let me connect to that proxy via Mibbit, and here via that proxy < 1317539697 978031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good thing to do < 1317539737 640959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: do you know how to set up a bouncer... < 1317539747 910579 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: why not hack up a terminal emulator using snap and web sockets? < 1317539827 220858 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do bouncers actually look like full IRC networks to the client? < 1317539833 466998 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap as in the BYOB 4 alpha? < 1317539833 543109 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was I unaware of this < 1317539849 641375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngevd snap as in the haskell web framework, presumeabley < 1317539864 784979 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: sma < 1317539873 489595 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: snap framework < 1317539883 540131 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i don't know what BYOB 4 alpha is < 1317539917 479551 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so you shouldn't < 1317539944 813933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: what would they look like instead? < 1317539992 27071 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...annoying to use thing that looks almost like raw IRC? I'm really not sure what my mental picture was < 1317540033 223610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you connect to an irc bouncer with a normal client < 1317540098 672470 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317540192 626202 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1317540486 889602 :CakeProphet!~eris@h184-60-161-54.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317540486 944305 :CakeProphet!~eris@h184-60-161-54.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net QUIT :Changing host < 1317540486 944441 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317540674 150190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :( < 1317540761 279282 :carlos!~carlos@189.222.191.107.dsl.dyn.telnor.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317540775 624614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello carlos < 1317540776 788404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1317540778 652350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-112.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1317540779 70243 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1317540790 448407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I can't figure out where you're meant to get the kernel from when kernel.org is down :P < 1317540793 275633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :github.com/torvalds/linux? < 1317540854 584130 :carlos!~carlos@189.222.191.107.dsl.dyn.telnor.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1317540862 759217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye carols < 1317540876 85064 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-89.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317540892 940465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: I can't figure out where you're meant to get the kernel from when kernel.org is down :P < 1317540893 114519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : github.com/torvalds/linux? < 1317540923 945486 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317540940 831828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much wasteful downloading :'( < 1317540945 642907 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317541007 726480 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1317541048 60853 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-112.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317541227 526065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: of the entire kernel history + branches < 1317541229 974046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to get the latest release < 1317541292 451428 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has tar download? < 1317541303 11201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1317541308 121419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn your facts,,, < 1317541324 927051 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can download a truncated copy of the repo iirc < 1317541330 444315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : brb < 1317541340 17444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317542672 179532 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is a bouncer. I seriously... not sure how I thought irssi had that feature I thought was advertised. I think I thought of people just ssh'ing to irssi < 1317542683 133885 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, s/is a bouncer/has bouncer functionality/ < 1317542705 291971 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm reading too much into its presence on Wikipedia's BNC page < 1317542765 642403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what feature < 1317542826 232415 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone mentioned any client being able to connect to it, I think. < 1317542831 99451 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be hallucinating that < 1317542839 880840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317542841 404371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called < 1317542842 150923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bouncer < 1317543019 550631 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clients need to actually support bouncers? < 1317543031 79257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if they want additional functionality < 1317543035 287154 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi's page on connecting via a bouncer seems to imply it... oh < 1317543037 746054 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1317543070 325139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean < 1317543076 17071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could make a bouncer that requires client support < 1317543078 329188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how irssi does it < 1317543182 890284 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just set up irssi somewhere and connect XChat to it < 1317543195 395297 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does XChat support bouncers easily such that ... wait, XCHat sucks < 1317543206 758981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU NEED NO CLIENT SUPPORT FFS < 1317543225 781021 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't mean I don't really want it < 1317543234 614443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. use miau < 1317543236 158937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: no you don't < 1317543237 760451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unnecessary < 1317543238 172682 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not have to type /quote server or whatever. < 1317543240 742568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1317543243 311126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have to do that < 1317543256 884001 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do I tell the bouncer what servers I wish to connect to? < 1317543262 376223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: in its configuration file, duh < 1317543265 243631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stays connected automatically < 1317543273 821275 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THen again, that would be far more convenient than dealing with XChat's shit < 1317543297 595365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. use miau < 1317543321 327639 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Why? < 1317543336 133872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is the only tolerable bonucer < 1317543354 193401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :znc is way too overly-modular and bloated and basically a pain in the ass, psyBNC is shitty ~warez haxx0r~ crap < 1317543364 350773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the other half-decent one i used that wasn't miau but it was kind of sucky anyway < 1317543366 578962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with miau you literally just < 1317543375 546751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"miau -[some letter i don't remember] port server" < 1317543377 38635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's done < 1317543396 42697 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How easy/difficult is it to spontaneously connect to a new server? < 1317543416 737672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shell in and start another miau < 1317543420 690132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes three seconds < 1317543445 747243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bouncer that smushes multiple servers into one connection is usable ever < 1317543457 242039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even simple commands like PRIVMSG make sense with that model < 1317543484 224102 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping that client support for bouncers made that sort of thing tolerable < 1317543491 594021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of thing < 1317543509 916238 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easily spontaneously connecting to another server < 1317543518 619356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, it is easy < 1317543534 264107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh foo; miau pooirc.net < 1317543540 351094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1317543543 465265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't possibly be fewer clicks with a menu in a client < 1317543556 777199 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if Quassel is as shitty on Linux as it is on Windows
< 1317543570 763008 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ctrl-T, /server whatever < 1317543585 180627 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it automatically join is another issue which is a major XChat fuckup < 1317543591 636470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: no client will just connect through everything with a bouncer... < 1317543595 635637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ridiculous < 1317543618 313205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what you want is a client/server architecture client type dealie, but those are really just overblown bouncers < 1317543639 252755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get miau on , use it, be happy < 1317543641 447942 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: such as Quassel, then? Or maybe some other thing that's similar < 1317543662 961421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but like i said < 1317543672 369471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is basically a bouncer deliberately designed to only work with one client and not use the standard irc protocol < 1317543675 400772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in return you get uh < 1317543680 888340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :connecting to servers is approximately a millisecond faster < 1317543684 10288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~WHAT MASSIVE GAINS~~ < 1317543700 652452 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is??? < 1317543727 321019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: how often do you connect to completely random servers anyway < 1317543736 35282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no harm in running a handful of miaus for all the networks you regularly use, that's kind of the point < 1317543739 663091 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could keep using mibbit and just use miau for Freenode as was the original plan < 1317543742 165610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can log channels for you while they're gone < 1317543746 152028 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: quite frequently < 1317543746 199939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and play back the log when you connect < 1317543758 190854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get a better backscroll thing too, IIRC. (Bouncers in general tend to have some sort of "replay logs a bit" features, but they are sometimes a bit kludgy.) < 1317543775 524849 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to use mibbit ughhh < 1317543778 11594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: miau's is nice. < 1317543795 706569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, it just replays it as normal but with timestamps tacked on, and you can disable those if you don't care. < 1317543805 759195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a few-liner change to LimeChat to use that as the real timestamp WAY BACK WHEN < 1317543982 593387 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, well, that's pretty much what bip does; but it's not completely optimal. I mean, it doesn't (and I don't want it to) replay things that I've already read, but sometimes I try to /lastlog something that I read in another client. < 1317544000 933695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use /lastlog. Maybe I should. < 1317544009 999293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I agree that some kind of client integration is, you know, the ideal, but it should be built on top of IRC, really. < 1317544015 135095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not a massive loss. < 1317544017 973588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all. < 1317544023 564738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the loss is definitely not in /server not doing something terrible. < 1317544030 782345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"grep on the logs" is what I usually do, though, and that works well. < 1317544049 701235 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1317544076 450354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: TBH, I think it should replay things you've already read; ideally, your scrollback would just extend back into infinity as the logs. < 1317544092 786804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the whole window should look exactly the same, message-wise, on every client, no matter how much time passes (assuming nobody says anything). < 1317544222 696547 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think if you need a random connection for a day, you can just connect with the client you're using; if it's to be a permanent thing, just start a bouncer and/or add it to the bouncer configuration. (bip has a "single process, multiple networks" thing. And it actually only has one inbound port for connections and differentiates with the password, which is a bit weird but works.) < 1317544254 95246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I didn't think to ask Sgeo|web why he wants a bouncer for random connections. < 1317544288 491940 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany seems to use a bouncer for random connections < 1317544295 177819 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand tiffany < 1317544310 219406 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's different for bots, they don't get bored setting things up? < 1317544320 100259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1317544324 422283 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I want to switch from random connection to permanent on the drop of a hat. < 1317544324 496272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From what I've gathered on the on-channel discussion, this is the case.) < 1317544335 624811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Maybe I want to live in a world of endless possibilities. < 1317544337 859973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A world where every flower < 1317544339 57083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a meaning. < 1317544340 349930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every friend < 1317544341 665245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a story. < 1317544347 53690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe _I_ want to Live in a World < 1317544349 69055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where my bouncer defines me < 1317544350 18849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :empowers me < 1317544351 234848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :supports me < 1317544353 858045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bouncer is me. < 1317544360 995766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Share your bouncer story at iwanttoripmyownfuckingheadoff.com. < 1317544412 488261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a point here, but I think it's lost in the fuzz. < 1317544413 765810 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's a weird thing to want; I mean, by definition you make a new permanent IRC recidence not very often, so spending several seconds and a reconnection on it isn't all that much. But whatever, of course. < 1317544437 172588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's some part of my point, but it's also the most obvious so it doesn't really come across, uh, at all. < 1317544467 914522 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of the reason I want the bouncer I think is to smooth out the absolute insanity that would occur if I tried directly connecting to anything < 1317544475 273754 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer's connection seems to be crap < 1317544475 424157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be < 1317544476 847151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity < 1317544498 410556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web seems very good at dismissing software and the like based on imagined problems (package namespace collisions) and failed attempts to account for imagined usecases (connecting to a billion minor IRC networks and then staying with half of them forever). < 1317544499 748921 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to see me disconnect and reconnect every few seconds? < 1317544524 775107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Freenode is a permanent server. < 1317544547 928652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poopnet.org, petresellersirc.com aren't. < 1317544559 436863 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to inflict the pain of my connection issues on temporary servers < 1317544564 20183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they don't care about you reconnecting every more-than-few-seconds-I-have-seen-your-connection-and-it-is-not-that-unstable.. < 1317544566 302134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/../. < 1317544568 35729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1317544593 43929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Oh well. No existing software meets your very tortured usecase. Guess you'll have to use none of it and ensure you reap NO benefits! < 1317544624 869942 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quassel and WeeChat seem to meet it, except they don't use standard IRC protocol < 1317544633 94392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can connect to Quassel with mibbit?? < 1317544635 357832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooow. < 1317544644 650685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things Quassel doesn't meet: Actually being bearable to use. < 1317544670 63766 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the one bug that made Quassel unbearable for me is on Windows only < 1317544688 60160 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I meant if I was going native client + bouncer or server route < 1317544695 462973 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sgeo why do you want mibbit again? I keep forgetteng < 1317544700 81853 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mibbit+bouncer with bouncer just on freenode is a separate thing < 1317544700 99902 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you never < 1317544701 143242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :explained < 1317544702 174886 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yourself < 1317544707 167484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you keep forgetting because he never said anything. < 1317544721 760528 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be a bouncer that will let you configurarate it through an existing connection; e.g. bip catches the "BIP" command so you can do things like "/bip whatever"; there's very limited support to editing the configuration, but it would be easy to extend (and possible something does it already) it to allow "/bip add_network stupidnet irc.stupid.com:25565" after which you can then just connect your client to bouncer.sgeo.com. < 1317544723 774819 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: smooth out my connection issues. Which a bouncer or server would also do < 1317544745 327343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: what has mibbit got to do with that < 1317544771 386143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very easy to extend for someone who can hack C. < 1317544783 477956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Inca-dentistry, do you know how well sshfs handles "weird things" like FIFOs? < 1317544788 546346 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming it does stuff to make sure a 2 second disconnection or whatever isn't fatal < 1317544804 530090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I'm sure it doesn't. < 1317544835 884235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[PsyBNC] allows Full Online Administration, the only thing you will have to set up before starting is your port where the demon should listen --" sounds like it does it; though, well, PsyBNC... < 1317544846 944078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As someone who used psyBNC for months: < 1317544851 897607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody should ever have to use psyBNC. < 1317544852 525063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1317544880 968386 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't think sshfs handles weird things at all, but I could be worng. < 1317544908 163081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it just, like, use "cat" and stuff? :p < 1317544956 313481 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Device nodes you can't put on any FUSE thing, at least, for securattimanty reasons. < 1317544972 318004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but they can act correctly when readden and written to. < 1317544980 739348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-52.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317545005 82628 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-89.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317545121 169710 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it and see, I suppose; it could be that creating a fifo works. It's not going to push the data through the SSH connection though. < 1317545160 452441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1317545182 203596 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you'd get different pipes on different machines, as opposed to a pipe which you can write to on A and read from on B. < 1317545202 196747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought sshfs was basically based around ls and cat? < 1317545209 786438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you should certainly be able to do communication with it. < 1317545219 982065 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be cool? A desktop environment that just sent commands to bash, possibly over ssh < 1317545248 345097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FIFOs are basically in-kernel buffers, the filesystem layer never sees the data you put into and read from one. The device node in the filesystem just attaches a name to one. < 1317545250 840590 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hmm, why would I need this, I assume sshfs would pretty much do everything I want < 1317545267 410151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but if sshfs is dumb, it won't create a pipe on my client machine. < 1317545270 852909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll think it's an actual file. < 1317545326 509609 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, well. Try it out if you want. A pipe would be a pretty weird actual file, though. < 1317545334 470706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1317545350 42449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if 9P might help. < 1317545360 70195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mkfifo test.fifo < 1317545360 140358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfifo: cannot create fifo `test.fifo': File exists < 1317545365 846564 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, bitten by my own cleverness. < 1317545387 141003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317545438 257475 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pipe as seen through sshfs just looks like a pipe, sadly. And reads only what I write into it on the local machine. < 1317545493 908866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317545596 191115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :QNX has a 9P-ish network-distributed thingie too (you can access devices on other computers and so on), maybe you could do an over-the-network named pipe there. < 1317545631 473484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1317546316 281240 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317546415 870405 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scotch, a kind of hybrid of Haskell and Python" < 1317546422 903691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1317546425 83547 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heaven or hell? Discuss < 1317546543 329893 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll finally fall in love < 1317546564 281904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1317546642 679508 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bendmorris.com/2011/01/what-problem-does-scotch-solve.html < 1317546726 64236 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317546752 757720 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw out the type-system security of Haskell, basically. Is this just going to be Python without OO and with decent lambdas? < 1317546754 453253 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317546837 838398 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earlier I had the probably already hadden idea of HaskellScript < 1317547073 185301 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-250-167.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317547105 499176 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-52.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317547363 353822 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317548100 262908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317548140 766538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI GAIZ < 1317548155 874328 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREETINGS < 1317548178 504044 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell and Python? < 1317548182 670257 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be cool maybe. < 1317548191 841068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no wait < 1317548194 108630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's not cool. < 1317548230 982463 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a Haskell-influenced language without some of the side-effect restrictions would be nice. < 1317548247 337915 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at Haskell < 1317548262 994799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not very good at all. But I have a good understanding of the basics I feel. < 1317548263 454569 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because I wrote the type thingy "String -> Int -> Int -> String -> Int -> Int -> [Int] -> Int -> Bool -> Bool -> Ordering" < 1317548269 2050 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1317548273 910219 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even. < 1317548281 885874 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs to be a data type. < 1317548295 967909 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317548303 644551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1317548307 948366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.bendmorris.com/2011/01/what-problem-does-scotch-solve.html < 1317548309 475593 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317548309 541916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahaha < 1317548385 895822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do easy-to-use scripting languages have to be interpreted? < 1317548399 93960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's Haskell with crappier function call syntax? < 1317548418 112926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Type inference is great and makes languages like Haskell very flexible but not as much so as Python. For example: 'a' == 1 won't evaluate in Haskell because there's no instance of == specifically defined for a string and a number; in Python it evaluates to False, as == can be used between any two values. Sometimes you want this kind of type safety, sometimes you don't." < 1317548433 967451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pictured: types: they don't work that way. < 1317548436 151582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the great thing is < 1317548437 598249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int a) => < 1317548438 637258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT VALID < 1317548448 278832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remove the optional type declaration < 1317548453 637411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is lighter weight than scotch < 1317548588 827136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I believe that scientists, mathematicians, or anyone who uses math in their daily lives (that's everyone) will be able to read and understand a Scotch program - instead of learning a new "language," they simply have to learn how to apply a language with which they're already familiar." < 1317548606 693719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1317548608 661312 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, just by adding some parentheses to function definitions, suddenly scientists and mathematicians can use it too. < 1317548623 871725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyday people! < 1317548630 940967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that how they sold cobol < 1317548637 723125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So how IS one meant to access fifos and the like remotely < 1317548640 105446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfs? < 1317548687 258413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't do that sort of stuff. < 1317548697 342075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, nfs doesn't handle it? < 1317548722 740051 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it won't. < 1317548725 726177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about Unix sockets? < 1317548757 667132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are local to the machine too. The filesystem just provides a namespace for them, like it does in the case of named fifos. < 1317548768 235148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1317548782 507361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This totally ruins my perfect IRC bouncer design. < 1317548796 566096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want networking, you need to do networking. < 1317548806 776373 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except again maybe on QNX and Plan 9 and such. < 1317548832 556937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Basically: Expose everything split into channels with a normal file to read and a FIFO to write; clients access these files and present an interface to the user appropriately; you can run multiple programs on them at once to be e.g. scripts, and you can write scripts as simple shell script; this is all very similar to the ii client.) < 1317548849 380684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But then the key thing is that I thought you could access these files over a network filesystem.) < 1317548860 352562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thus allowing a completely transparent multi-connection bouncer system.) < 1317548861 412946 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such more elegant operating systems, for a more civlized age. < 1317548868 1736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More civlized indeed. < 1317548881 553128 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MOKC MY TYPNG < 1317548893 566410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously... is there no way to get the behaviour I want other than "reopen this file and check if it's changed every few ms to see if there's been a write"? < 1317549005 405458 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's borderline possible that inotify and such can monitor changes in network-mounted filesystems too, at least NFS; but I doubt over sshfs, at least with any sort of sensible timeframe. < 1317549036 57788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshfs I don't care about too much. < 1317549041 807233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather avoid NFS though. I realise that limits my options. < 1317549097 920517 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lake Michigan looks like Norway < 1317549106 364146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. All I want is to expose a very simple filesystem interface over a network. < 1317549141 856717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the more esoteric network filesystems might in fact do it better than NFS. I'm really not sure how fast (and if) changes propagate to NFS clients without them actually polling; but there might be some sort of "register for notifications" thing there. < 1317549177 360618 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just use Plan 9. < 1317549182 462741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 9P is in the kernel these days. < 1317549186 709678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a software developer and Biology student from Seattle," < 1317549188 429357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If only that were an option. < 1317549190 218710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, this explains it. < 1317549216 350087 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u mad? < 1317549220 263960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I sad. < 1317549224 778238 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1317549259 62009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/test.sco < 1317549278 928179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the bit where this looks nothing like maths and everything like Python. < 1317549285 189168 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds the article you people were referring to.
< 1317549295 25743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've already quoted all the good bits. :-( < 1317549309 504628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/scotch.lib/std/fraction.sco < 1317549311 200574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NO "f(n) = n" IT'S MATH. < 1317549312 304986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it has pattern matching < 1317549320 576142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than python < 1317549330 83689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/scotch.lib/std/math/infinity.sco < 1317549332 653244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "std.math @ 'pi'" is how a mathematician would refer to pi. < 1317549336 23667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh no < 1317549348 387797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often see mathematicians refer to infinity as infinity(). < 1317549353 292334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/scotch.lib/std/math/calculus.sco < 1317549355 332763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus < 1317549359 994958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally all calculus < 1317549369 780099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/scotch.lib/std/math/algebra.sco < 1317549372 43162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally all algebra < 1317549391 681854 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B221.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317549392 408393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how he doesn't even know the binomial theorem. < 1317549392 574868 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're missing functions.sco which contains inv() such that inv(deriv) = integ < 1317549405 896634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Mathematical fact. < 1317549418 668352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is functions.sco? < 1317549429 289936 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he just forgot to commit i. < 1317549433 834689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :p < 1317549457 325196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"then a == c" < 1317549457 388993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/commit/cf1c887e1e6a5dc9e8aebd7065d52f7c090cdfd1 < 1317549459 423505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This commit message < 1317549460 964805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense < 1317549463 259171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and git status" < 1317549465 824523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :== is of course the standard mathematical notation. < 1317549467 704896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he tried to like < 1317549469 818749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run git status in another window < 1317549474 925995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't manage to < 1317549484 798416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is some weird sort of pattern matching. < 1317549492 797022 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv(a) = 0 < 1317549504 351155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It looks like term rewriting to me, which is a fine paradigm, but this attempt is rather malformed. < 1317549531 211709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, it has nothing to do with the actual definition of the derivative. < 1317549560 886809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh my god he doesn't even know the product rule. < 1317549576 916854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone truly know the product rule? Metaphysically? < 1317549585 917422 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317549598 160601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You learn it the same year you start calculus. < 1317549609 267716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Metaphysically? < 1317549620 660438 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaphysical products aren't like regular products. < 1317549624 553518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1317549641 960520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like how it doesn't have a case for constant multiples and can't be used to build up derivatives because the chain rule isn't there. < 1317549683 876813 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does a*(x^n) separately, so you have no reason to complain. < 1317549687 633387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's be fair, we are all bound by chains in this life. < 1317549721 335748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except his functions, which can't be chained. < 1317549727 365306 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's pretty much the only chain that ever comes up in the real world. < 1317549744 656301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: except for the ones that bind us. < 1317549746 801298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote monad tutorial < 1317549749 200424 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :477) oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. < 1317549769 247980 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are a lot like derivatives. < 1317549816 206415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahaha it doesn't have x^(a*n). < 1317549827 188035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv(x()) = 1 < 1317549851 407705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure oklopol can attest that this is exactly how mathematicians would write this. < 1317550005 493453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it also only does e^x and e^(a*x), not e^f(x) in general. < 1317550036 940395 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem that mentioning my name woke me up even though it doesn't make a sound < 1317550048 284368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sonar. < 1317550051 83017 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You must be some sort of a psychic. < 1317550058 676459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BUT SERIOUSLY HOW CAN I ACHIEVE THAT CLIENT ARCHITECTURE ;__; < 1317550061 805003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITHOUT USING PLAN 9 < 1317550072 42751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's just a natural consequence of it not having the chain rule. < 1317550081 734411 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Possibly you could export your files and pipes using e.g. the IRC protocol to the client side. < 1317550095 615541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Eh? < 1317550099 302824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, here, see http://www.bendmorris.com/2011/01/what-problem-does-scotch-solve.html and also https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/tree/master/scotch.lib/std/math < 1317550107 727475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is no IRC protocol involved from the client's point of view. < 1317550136 223359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: A client (as in a program using the architecture) expects to be pointed at a filesystem tree where it opens files like "esoteric/log" and "esoteric/msg" to read and write to. < 1317550142 492118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, provide an IRC daemon which delivers writes into the FIFO, and continuously reads from the file and delivers the content as messages. Then it works over the network. < 1317550150 404014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is likely a normal file to be read from, the latter a FIFO or "similar". < 1317550155 914891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is how to expose something LIKE this over a network. < 1317550176 800232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But why use IRC for that? It seems arbitrary; one could just as well use HTTP, or some random binary protocol over TCP, or gopher, or... < 1317550192 402066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was arbitrary; for maximum ridiculousness. < 1317550219 324444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmphers. < 1317550231 953810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I /could/ simulate a FIFO with nc, couldn't I? < 1317550259 132152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, an nc presenting a fifo on the user's laptop that, when written to, goes across the network and causes a write to the server's fifo. < 1317550317 308745 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317550318 276091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeee-es, for some values of "could". I mean, there's no existing thing to automatically set up the pipes, but you could certainly have two FIFOs and a pair of netcats over the net reading one and writing to the other. < 1317550343 858322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the FIFO on the server wouldn't have to change. < 1317550355 966720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scotch is interpreted, its syntax is intuitive, its type system won't fight you, variable definitions can be redefined, and types never need to be declared:" < 1317550359 326641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that < 1317550361 779980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yes, it wouldn't be so "network transparent", but there'd be a program taking an ssh host and a path and exposing "the same stuff" locally. < 1317550367 542167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thinks that haskell's immutable variables < 1317550379 448239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there to make life hard for you < 1317550389 391376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than being a fundamental feature of the language < 1317550394 599590 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in fact they only make your penis hard for you < 1317550407 291680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speak for yourself. < 1317550441 353269 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get that calculus lib at all < 1317550455 576840 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv(a) = 0 < 1317550461 81505 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv(a + b) = deriv(a) + deriv(b) < 1317550463 745783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :que < 1317550484 380264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it know a is a constant in the first and a function in the second < 1317550493 875110 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how horrid < 1317550498 667106 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the fact < 1317550501 584404 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You're reading it as if it's Python. It's not. Try reading it as if it's math. < 1317550533 804740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, then my question is what the type of a is < 1317550546 983658 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suspects oklopol just doesn't get math.
< 1317550569 449549 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Types? Look, sometimes you want that kind of safety, sometimes you don't. < 1317550585 253504 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in math, that's the most important thing < 1317550586 210976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is the best worst person < 1317550599 850158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> deriv(a) = 0 < 1317550599 953809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> deriv(a + b) = deriv(a) + deriv(b) < 1317550601 149370 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the type is not obvious, you give it < 1317550603 280799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think variables are matched lower down < 1317550605 142586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as deriv(x()) < 1317550613 503141 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, types are for losers. < 1317550619 324833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i like how you're trolling oklopol to the point where he mad < 1317550633 490728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would explain that hilariously non-mathsy syntax. < 1317550635 993501 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad too
< 1317550638 334843 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sharing. < 1317550654 670801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm a is a constant in the second case too? < 1317550657 157152 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, if you're talking about a program, sure. It might be possible to have sshfs do the stuff of exposing the files and the FIFO nodes, and the program doing the automatical forwarding of the pipes so that you don't need to do the pretend-file part in the program; it should be possible even to piggy-back the pipe forwarding over the same SSH connection sshfs is using, at least in theory if not in practice. < 1317550666 432370 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hilariously ridiculous < 1317550677 411110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1317550683 535735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the deriv(a) = 0 is a catch-all case < 1317550686 32577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything not matched below < 1317550693 478165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and variables are passed as x() somehow < 1317550695 232533 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1317550709 842331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it catches pretty much all functions < 1317550727 466744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1317550731 85249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It seems so inelegant, though. < 1317550747 995332 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do parens do, like the fuck is x() < 1317550749 442642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, yes it does. < 1317550768 241006 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should invent a new operating system that lets you share this sort of thing over a network and has it as a basic primitive. < 1317550772 755220 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get this shit, looks like tree rewriting done wrong < 1317550774 961669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And based on what elliott said I think it means that x() is a variable, not a general pattern match. < 1317550780 96066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You mean @? < 1317550780 268909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well duh. < 1317550792 383673 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's up with say deriv(ln(x)) = 1 / x < 1317550802 887853 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So how does deriv(a + b) work? Can a and b be variables? < 1317550806 996440 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is obviously the identity function there < 1317550810 252390 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a constant < 1317550819 555988 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not x() < 1317550820 200871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God only knows; this guy clearly has no idea what he's doing. < 1317550822 219294 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parentheses are giving it identity. < 1317550829 132933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a biologist, for christ's sake. < 1317550843 298303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't tell whether you were making An @ Joke or actually aren't aware of it. < 1317550844 403349 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a function, I am a free mad! < 1317550846 821076 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The parentheses are giving it identity." --- ? < 1317550847 970597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very confusing to me, too. Clearly in "deriv(sin(x)) = cos(x) * deriv(x)" the 'x' can be anything (because it has the deriv(x) part), but in "deriv(x ^ n) = n * (x ^ (n - 1))" n is.. assumed a constant? < 1317550862 985960 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's an @ joke? < 1317550874 573047 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@halp < 1317550874 649391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1317550878 518248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: A joke wrt @, its perfection, and its slight aura of vapour. < 1317550881 81388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have this sinking feeling that he special-cases x. < 1317550888 168603 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@whatis @ < 1317550888 343152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about @. < 1317550895 9943 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and I have much in common, lambdabot. < 1317550900 983537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: @ is -- breathes in -- < 1317550906 712053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is it even known if that thing actually works at all? Maybe it's just, you know, stream-of-consciousness musing. < 1317550906 982520 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're talking aobut roguelikes, that is. < 1317550909 12358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds an old explanation to ctrl+v
< 1317550921 983095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very, very possibly. < 1317550930 245045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no make it a SONG < 1317550932 803129 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.sco doesn't have any "deriv"s. < 1317550935 636624 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv is obviously derivative w.r.t. x :D < 1317550945 151876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1317550946 896444 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1317550952 3175 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is special < 1317550966 955997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -- keeps breathing -- < 1317550969 163218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to look into the implementation, but I guess I'll have to. < 1317550975 650796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK turns out I don't have a one-sentence description, so < 1317550996 321905 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317550996 965082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IDGI, if 'x' is specially the variable-being-derived-w.r.t., why the "x()"s here and there? < 1317550999 89509 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an OS type thing elliott is making/will make/has made < 1317551015 627485 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait I can't read code under the best of circumstances. < 1317551019 577860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you do it. < 1317551036 588123 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure what I'm doing < 1317551043 491195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's an OS based on a pure functional languae at its core, with orthogonal persistence producing a single-address namespace, full network transparency, a core hopefully simple enough to host on top of basically any OS or platform without too much ridiculous effort that the rest is portable on top of, < 1317551046 961590 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote: "OHGAHGHGHAGH WHAT DOES IT MEAN!! AN ARMY OF SNEEZING WANGS STALKS MY NIGHTMARE" < 1317551056 796776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: blah blah reflexive, bootstrapped, none of them lame boring languages like C or whatever. < 1317551069 285365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also in a rather extended design phrase, and has been for a while. :p < 1317551080 420536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule algebra => (x + y) ^ n = if n > 2 then (x + y) ^ 2 * (x+y)^(n-2) else (x+y)^n, < 1317551080 581743 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : (x + y) ^ 2 = x^2 + 2x(y) + y^2 < 1317551086 316363 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317551088 701606 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I aim to be still alive when @ is released < 1317551091 871959 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That's Algebra! < 1317551095 316275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, he does not know the binomial theorem. < 1317551097 57827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also everything runs in ring 0 because the security is provided at a type system / language / object-capability level. < 1317551097 235383 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Immortality, eh? < 1317551102 198548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, that's Algebrawang! < 1317551106 997819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means that syscalls have 0 cost which is cool??? < 1317551112 642185 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 12 < 1317551120 157918 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not my issue, my issue is... i dunno, that's just argh < 1317551120 257322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's also basically no distinction between "OS", "language" and "applications": also cool??? < 1317551123 220654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is cool. < 1317551125 520052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show numberwang < 1317551134 737921 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ admin + elliott < 1317551134 910531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317551135 318338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317551150 167113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE'S A RANDOM SIMPLIFICATION < 1317551157 902396 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO DELETED NUMBERWANG < 1317551167 90914 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That right there is the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra. < 1317551170 887289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO KILLED EGOBOT < 1317551183 79972 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover mad < 1317551183 702889 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? what a silly choice < 1317551185 56408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Now devote yourself to the Kvlt of @. < 1317551192 9259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I thought that was something about complexes. < 1317551213 257794 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope. It's about (x+y)^2 < 1317551217 104249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still just the definition of ^n, so why would you give it like that < 1317551217 346925 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will devote himself to https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/Scotch/Eval/Eval.hs instead.
< 1317551242 16654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you mean using (x+y)^2 as a base case? < 1317551286 618176 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hurp it's not like that thing will open it completely as it is anyway < 1317551300 620944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disappointing lack of shachaf devotion. < 1317551305 912658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Kvlt needs a rebrand. < 1317551309 365173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now simply: KVLT. < 1317551315 748379 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll devote myself when it has as many users as Plan 9. < 1317551316 32187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yo, hip to KVLT. < 1317551325 57239 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION met an actual person who actually used to use Plan 9.
< 1317551325 414855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But it already has as many users as Plan 9. < 1317551328 153823 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in actually use it. < 1317551331 353204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLORIOVS SOCIALIST RESPVBLIC < 1317551347 724209 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplification he does is open every (x+y)^2 in (x+y)^n into something with three terms, and leave it like that < 1317551351 972588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Scotch.Eval.Eval is bad. < 1317551356 8330 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out why KVLT looks so soviet
< 1317551363 15385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard there was a JIT < 1317551365 40463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where it is < 1317551365 605520 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he doesn't have associativity and the distributive law < 1317551374 109083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's find the jit :)))))0000 < 1317551378 859732 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i really, really doubt that's the fundamental theorem of algebra < 1317551382 267401 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :КУЛТ < 1317551391 406100 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it КУЛТЬ? < 1317551411 903439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "The fundamental theorem of algebra states that every non-constant single-variable polynomial with complex coefficients has at least one complex root. Equivalently, the field of complex numbers is algebraically closed." just in case < 1317551425 534784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, NO IMPERIALIST CHRISTIAN SCRIPTS ONLY GLORIOVS ROMAN RESPUBLIC < 1317551426 149392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Nope. < 1317551441 384061 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you should pledge some money for Scotch; e has only $50 out of $350 pledgie'd. < 1317551445 424502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's the one i've always heard < 1317551446 403436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure who's trolling whom here. < 1317551454 30819 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Nope, it's that rule algebra => thing. < 1317551460 389834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could ... do that right now and nobody could stop me except for my brain. < 1317551463 20823 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317551465 764650 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does it even matter? < 1317551469 367304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I will have to figure out how tough my brain is. < 1317551472 164759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would be so sad if he'd pledged it himself. < 1317551473 603836 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel brings it out in me. < 1317551477 535657 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317551486 390500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what exactly happens when it hits $350. < 1317551494 900380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Scotch is permanently erased. < 1317551504 894343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you look like a man with more money than sense. Donate to Scotch. < 1317551521 416704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotch was named after what you need after experiencing it. < 1317551526 393636 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any < 1317551537 869913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of like my horrifying language, Existential Crisis. < 1317551548 904706 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Given that it's the only theorem, that's not very difficult. < 1317551548 922617 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i use that all the time < 1317551555 992305 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317551559 297597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any < 1317551561 685116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :697) but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any < 1317551562 441466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Donors (1): 1. Anonymous* [* Denotes a manually entered pledge.]" -- does that mean the $50 is just what he told pledgie.com he had gotten from someone, and not from anyone via their system? < 1317551577 366812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sad :( < 1317551616 666584 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could donate a $0.01. < 1317551627 379812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah. 'Tis tempting. < 1317551634 318814 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be like donating a negative amount due to transaction costs. < 1317551641 303524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That seems a good way to mislead people into thinking a cause is popular. < 1317551642 234280 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it allows it. < 1317551650 550463 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one trouble with programming languages is that they don't passively evolve < 1317551665 263221 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their evolution is always active and studied < 1317551671 287953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 wins today's "no shit sherlock" award. < 1317551675 737302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless... < 1317551682 78331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule infinite => infinity() + x = infinity, x + infinity() = infinity + x,rule infinite => infinity() + x = infinity, x + infinity() = infinity + x, < 1317551686 477659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1317551687 499273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1317551689 787983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we made a language which *did* evolve passively? < 1317551699 640528 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, we see some serious paren usage < 1317551704 219666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Validation failed: Amount Your donation of $0.01 is below the required minimum of $1.00. < 1317551709 900714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fizzie: Phantom_Hoover: help, i mad < 1317551715 254840 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't come to this channel to be normal < 1317551717 331438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so mad. < 1317551719 552029 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehehhe. < 1317551720 476377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is a dollar these days < 1317551725 303096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :64p < 1317551729 20400 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Plof passively evolved < 1317551729 39237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'll come out to a pound with fees < 1317551740 845824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Is this brief moment of laughter worth an one squid < 1317551741 700473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could get a bus ticket for that money! < 1317551750 33483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good thing I don't need one! < 1317551751 528347 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is a pound? Half a kg? < 1317551752 51277 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well.... i am a newbie so i don't know the esolangs < 1317551758 444168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1317551771 68769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i don't come to this channel to be normal < 1317551771 525605 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is plof one of gregor's creations? < 1317551775 602645 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess donating is a few of losing weight. < 1317551776 420480 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1317551778 731276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you go *anywhere* to be normal? < 1317551780 118385 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new Scotch diet. < 1317551788 520895 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entirely scotch mist < 1317551801 445811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" infinity() * x = if x is 0 < 1317551801 590045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : then 0" < 1317551801 698632 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know US pints < UK pints? < 1317551802 683300 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317551805 113251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK guys what do I credit myself as. < 1317551809 476338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the Pledgie thing. < 1317551817 10929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy will see it and I don't want to hurt his feelings but I want to be HILARIOUS. < 1317551817 837100 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric < 1317551819 422846 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: to be honest i wear a certain persona around the house because those people have to live with me < 1317551828 184678 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're donating? < 1317551829 105419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to hurt his feelings SO MUCH < 1317551835 21726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: M...maybe. < 1317551835 532819 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to drive them to madness < 1317551836 269036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put him < 1317551837 134448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: YES < 1317551839 40186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :through < 1317551843 264601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will donate as "irc.freenode.net #esoteric" < 1317551844 42432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feelings torture < 1317551847 278638 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HURT ALL THE FEELINGS < 1317551849 281129 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad? < 1317551852 271045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were problems with the following fields: < 1317551852 377256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Login is too long (maximum is 24 characters) < 1317551852 445705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Login can contain only numbers and letters, but must contain at least one letter. < 1317551858 251568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: usually infinity times 0 is 0 < 1317551860 928409 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you weren't even the one who was annoyed by that. < 1317551865 394121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ircDOTfreenodeDOTnetHASHesotericVISITUS"??? WHAT ABOUT THAT??? < 1317551870 130925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in measure theory < 1317551890 143442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gleh, even "ircXfreenodeXnetHASHesoteric" is too long. < 1317551892 735439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help me out here guys. < 1317551913 737354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Freenode — hashesoteric < 1317551920 816344 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenodeHASHesoteric < 1317551929 287134 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well it is surely a good thing then about plof < 1317551941 327313 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where do I donate to you? < 1317551941 695403 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :or freenode #esoteric < 1317551950 455235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Paypal penguinofthegods@gmail.com < 1317551953 963367 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would donate to the great @ project.
< 1317551956 536478 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :or esolangs.org < 1317551957 919013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it. Do it now. < 1317551961 200206 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :formally i supppose 'passively evolving' means there is a feedback mechanism for users of the language to make the language better < 1317551962 225357 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about Plof < 1317551966 104716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: It has to be only letters. < 1317551976 109817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I want him to visit here so the esolangs.org one is out. < 1317551985 430146 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How about I deliver it in person? < 1317551986 910227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm beginning to suspect scotch is just an elaborate joke < 1317551990 890447 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangsDOTorg < 1317551995 943539 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1317551998 19582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's a creating of #esoteric. < 1317552002 322433 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, when someone writes 10 or 20 or 1000 lines of code, the language does not get affected.. there is no feedback < 1317552003 905647 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ng/on/ < 1317552008 68795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Very well < 1317552012 663967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no, it has to evolve on its own < 1317552017 226067 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1317552017 499747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about elliott. < 1317552017 627437 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1317552020 233732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTG < 1317552021 248751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317552024 139248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I, too, wish my code's meaning changed as I wrote more of it. < 1317552026 429923 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although feedback is crucial to evolution < 1317552029 22572 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lambdabot a bot coded in haskell < 1317552029 820652 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Ngevd < 1317552030 45268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1317552031 406383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would eliminate the boring predictability of my code meaning one and one thing. < 1317552035 750003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: FSVO "a". < 1317552044 961405 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is it coded in < 1317552045 471725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like "THE bot coded in haskell" for -- shachaf how long has \bot been around. < 1317552047 805816 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ahhhhhh i see.. that is a problem < 1317552049 164938 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1317552065 644927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something tells me it's close to ten years now? < 1317552068 365727 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How should I know? < 1317552072 875616 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not ten years. < 1317552075 128910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, you're like this big mudball of wisdom. < 1317552076 884075 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1317552077 159963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS < 1317552083 914614 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: however not all is lost... because if your code is compiled it doesn't need a meaning < 1317552084 49311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I said close to ten years. So like... eight years. < 1317552084 226139 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that works < 1317552086 379281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven. < 1317552095 208543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two. < 1317552096 445021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero. < 1317552105 808352 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I only came to #haskell a few years ago, man. < 1317552112 21870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: It doesn't? < 1317552118 780911 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write once, compile once :D < 1317552121 729033 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1317552127 217639 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wahahhaha < 1317552127 543532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does that mean you can't study its glorious history? < 1317552138 136361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Let me tell you about how stupid everyone was in here six years ago. < 1317552140 293496 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In fact, a quick log search indicates that I first joined #haskell within a week of you first joining #haskell. < 1317552156 332338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ooh. Now this me mad. < 1317552158 11116 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never been on Haskell < 1317552174 263138 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION = elliott
< 1317552181 700554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: With this nick, or? < 1317552213 822069 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With ehird, but the first occurence of the string "elliott" is something said by ehird. < 1317552217 77210 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i like this dialogue. because im never going to drop an idea so easily. whatever holes you can find in the idea i can apply more patches < 1317552234 975720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: It's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. < 1317552243 136101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right. < 1317552246 550205 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'D < 1317552257 76749 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is this assumption that a piece of code needs to be compilable multiple times < 1317552262 735947 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not really the case < 1317552298 393442 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a program would be so awesome, if you make too many errors, it would decide the syntax needs a change, and you need to change your whole program. just like every other user of the language on the planet < 1317552303 855205 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts worrying about the hole getting bigger in this metaphorical boat
< 1317552332 925424 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now hopping in the lifeboat.
< 1317552351 210361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's like network headache if network headache was amazing < 1317552353 823433 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming < 1317552372 489042 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense i guess < 1317552373 694510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming < 1317552375 803976 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :698) so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming < 1317552396 573530 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1317552396 937716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is slowly learning that I will `addquote anything he says that makes no sense. < 1317552398 960503 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :332) There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation. < 1317552407 83835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made perfect sense! < 1317552409 69989 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elliott < 1317552411 228219 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :207) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 210) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 219) elliott: My university has < 1317552423 170373 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote oleg < 1317552425 424172 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :553) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1317552432 74588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Oleg quote. < 1317552434 882683 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's me < 1317552440 629667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote shachaf < 1317552443 162570 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :661) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. < 1317552449 722692 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317552455 552615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad bro? < 1317552459 72554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperative programming took functional programming and removed the weird feature that functions are deterministic < 1317552466 652763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :D < 1317552470 487015 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Feature? More like bug. < 1317552487 150146 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1317552495 704490 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well before logic caught up with me, i meant that somehow this feedback would operate on a social level, where, uhhh.. < 1317552500 483075 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i am thinking about forth < 1317552503 778731 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, the good old days of #haskell, when everyone thought I worked at Galois. < 1317552506 71359 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i don't know forth < 1317552512 63324 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION the memories...
< 1317552518 995794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf the memories? < 1317552523 124344 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317552527 201031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION the memories
< 1317552531 215816 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shachaf the memories" could be your superhero name < 1317552540 820094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Let us combine our powers of "people think you work at Galois" and "people think I'm Conal". < 1317552545 755656 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to be a language wherein the syntax is definable < 1317552546 663585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will be the only Conal to work at Galois ever. < 1317552562 968086 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You just need a hostname that says "galois" in it. < 1317552571 439361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: lmao < 1317552575 78967 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that one coder could copy another coder's syntax definitions and thus form dialects < 1317552590 468600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That trick me mad. < 1317552595 169888 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem that your code would stop making sense would be there < 1317552614 966078 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me trying to read old english < 1317552635 986170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy? < 1317552663 119444 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :old english has to be learned.. its not easy even if you are a native english speaker < 1317552684 235631 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old < 1317552692 734218 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oldest < 1317552701 52569 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg so old < 1317552701 916559 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i thought you meant like spearshaker's < 1317552707 943472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spearshaker's < 1317552707 961412 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-shakespeare < 1317552710 615112 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant, like, the second-oldest, man. < 1317552724 607251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Have you ever met ZOMGMODULES? You are rather alike. < 1317552733 150780 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are many ways to write the name < 1317552743 447491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if only you picked one of them < 1317552751 206061 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can read a text thousands of years old reasonably easily.
< 1317552761 717273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Perry Bible Fellowship updated. Novel. < 1317552764 901755 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers this to be a superpower.
< 1317552777 623602 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a lot of superpowers.
< 1317552778 891389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's the shittiest superpower ever. < 1317552780 798503 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fuck up! < 1317552792 212683 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, recently someone explained to me how C type declarations work. < 1317552795 159674 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my new insult. < 1317552795 476959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do we have proof that shachaf is not ZOMGMODULES? < 1317552799 802078 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can just read them and they come out right. < 1317552828 34940 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/read/write/ < 1317552834 16703 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah just fuck up shachaf < 1317552839 967379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Prove yourself. < 1317552876 441439 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Prove that I'm not ZOMGMODULES? < 1317552879 525323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317552884 404097 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I have no idea who ZOMGMODULES is. < 1317552885 558885 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1317552890 917950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does ZOMGMODULES. < 1317552912 957096 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1317552914 223120 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modules < 1317552932 747923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He is RARELY also known as cpressey. :p) < 1317552945 915571 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask me, zomgmodules can fuck his way up < 1317552951 642553 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG! Ubuntu! (Re: omgubuntu.co.uk, which I hit by googling recently.) < 1317552969 802879 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is potentially a waste of human energy that code doesn't really have a means of improving inspite of how many coders hack away at it < 1317552982 330584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also catseye too, I suppose?) < 1317553040 863757 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should move. < 1317553044 301264 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make me move. < 1317553053 149234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1317553060 991778 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1317553062 55885 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sad
< 1317553083 316669 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION living in this small windowless room with sleep schedule being messed up as a result
< 1317553088 472585 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get a window. < 1317553096 504471 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna swap < 1317553096 889789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are easier ways to mess up sleep schedules. < 1317553111 236024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is that in AM or PM? < 1317553128 649589 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see a listing of a place I could move, and there's a picture, and there's a window in the picture, I start drooling uncontrollable. < 1317553133 324921 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunlight. < 1317553151 41712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you meant move as in like, from your chair. < 1317553160 786995 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, actual move. < 1317553162 82026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No but seriously, is it AM or PM there. < 1317553163 474123 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a windowless room with black walls < 1317553166 757088 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION figures i havent had my vitamin d pill for the day
< 1317553170 86786 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 24-hours time here. < 1317553176 259683 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s// < 1317553181 806459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So you're in, uhh, Greenland? < 1317553193 56837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cape Verde??? < 1317553204 48517 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317553207 19207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shachaf- TIME Sun Oct 2 10:58:29 2011 < 1317553213 396661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hmm, that's UTC minus /two/ isn't it < 1317553213 618000 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just my IRC client, man. < 1317553219 187115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm on BST. < 1317553226 755962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh. I mad. :/ < 1317553236 703131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure you're not in Uruguay? < 1317553239 220258 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wants to hunt me down and kill me. < 1317553244 626490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, duh. < 1317553257 963489 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already live in a town that at one point in the 1990s had the most murders per capita in the country. < 1317553261 486433 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the country" < 1317553275 715015 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a certain unstated depression which builds up in the coding community due to the limited expressiveness of their work < 1317553281 746485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You live in the US like all the boring people, don't you. :( < 1317553286 887943 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1317553296 460491 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's boring about the US? < 1317553302 912594 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard my last post < 1317553305 761253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's not a thing I said. < 1317553321 245877 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics seems to have evolved in a very steady way < 1317553329 792459 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's interesting about people who live outside the US? < 1317553332 851014 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making programming look like a mess < 1317553338 37265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But come on, being that guy from Greenland is approximately infinitely cooler than being that guy from the US, and as we all know, insert some kind of Scotch joke about its infinity module. < 1317553341 500576 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics is a huge mess. < 1317553349 38783 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I'm not "from" the US. < 1317553353 644991 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was born in Asia.
< 1317553359 460196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like A"US"ia. < 1317553360 935041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is a huge mess? < 1317553367 231492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna elaborate < 1317553374 502558 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-248.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317553379 34421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euro"US"pe. < 1317553382 324923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afri"US"ca. < 1317553388 687191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ameri"US"ca < 1317553388 891858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A"US"tralia. Wait. < 1317553390 297456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-250-167.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317553393 533087 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaboration operation is not defined on "mathematics is a huge mess" < 1317553394 753537 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1317553408 298659 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, southwest Asia. < 1317553411 344840 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1317553415 853788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anta"US"rtic"US"ica. < 1317553416 331349 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the best part of Asia, clearly. < 1317553425 601374 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and what do you mean < 1317553429 259842 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaboration ("mathematics is a huge mess") = "mathematics is a huge mess" < 1317553430 872169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure I didn't spell Antarctica right there. < 1317553440 761861 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm a Finnish citizen, by the way. < 1317553451 837662 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you are not < 1317553454 586135 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION triple citizen
< 1317553456 366289 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad? < 1317553461 98375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol rejects this notion. He so verily mad. < 1317553465 331234 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate < 1317553465 908602 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the elaboration of "mathematics is a huge mess" is the identity of "mathematics is a huge mess" < 1317553467 922918 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly am! < 1317553473 414446 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grandmother is Finnish. QED < 1317553476 546387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think he wants you to: elaborate. < 1317553526 756222 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r"US"sia < 1317553534 684427 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate < 1317553536 175039 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Tree = Mu [] < 1317553541 940824 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes this tree.
< 1317553545 837279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think he wants you to elaborate on: Mathematics being a huge mess. < 1317553549 720678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he getting: mad. < 1317553558 745656 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1317553561 125714 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317553564 564894 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant mathematical notation. < 1317553570 596155 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were we still talking about Scotch? < 1317553589 254683 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying mathematical notation is a mess? < 1317553594 961468 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317553606 48485 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not saying it at the very moment. I said it earlier. < 1317553610 185495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Scotch's "functions that never end" just mean "functions that, like, work on and produce lazy lists and shit". < 1317553611 672206 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. you really aren't a finnish citizen are you < 1317553619 108961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately, it's impossible for Scotch to figure out that this is an infinite list; that would be equivalent to solving the halting problem, an undecidable problem in computer science. It's impossible to even tell that the evaluation of [1..] does not terminate." < 1317553624 466367 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :-( < 1317553642 173728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The solution was to automatically rewrite addition expressions associatively: a + (b + c) should always be rewritten as (a + b) + c. This allows infinite sums like infinite_range to evaluate to [n, n+1, n+2 ... n+m] + infinite_range(n+m+1) which can be used in combination with "take m" to get the list of m elements." < 1317553670 430832 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317553671 674228 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's impossible to even tell that the evaluation of [1..] does not terminate." --- what the fuck???? < 1317553672 638649 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suomalainen
< 1317553684 1946 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fucking hell is going on with thsi shit < 1317553684 833438 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jhsdaf < 1317553710 677498 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are these qutoes coming from? < 1317553722 572933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://www.bendmorris.com/search?updated-max=2011-02-03T10%3A54%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=7 < 1317553725 657293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beware; it might you mad. < 1317553743 649416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes it still $300 to go.
< 1317553747 743872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, is HTTP or git usually faster at cloning? As in, via git. < 1317553760 556398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you really, really want me to spend a buck on that? < 1317553767 733888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317553769 259057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me a buck to spend on it and I'll spend it. < 1317553779 972902 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's wrong with math notation < 1317553786 370295 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want to deprive you of $1. But I also want to deprive Scotch of $1. < 1317553788 311546 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dilemma
< 1317553799 104434 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dilemmad
< 1317553806 796086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it's so hard to write neatly. < 1317553811 406169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a lot of things are wrong with the usual dialect, but nothing that crucial < 1317553815 221020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1317553822 263831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to write fractions on a single line. < 1317553830 978781 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really mean anything fundamental. < 1317553834 796236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Give me one dollar, and I'll promise not to use it on anything but Scotch. There, now you'll be doubly dissatisfied. < 1317553838 145526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when I was doing partial fractions and product rules and that kind of thing. < 1317553845 558582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a lot of ad hoc notation that developed from people being used to their notation being read by other people. < 1317553853 392768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the love of god cambridge why is the step site down < 1317553860 849637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to find you and hit you < 1317553878 237002 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow it works really well and never gets in your way < 1317553898 905343 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where's the JIT? < 1317553903 242889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: God knows. < 1317553903 936846 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a JIT
< 1317553908 768251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a jit. < 1317553916 412786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up, I JIT. < 1317553917 797922 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares to make another post
< 1317553917 996374 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know Linux contains a JIT for packet filter rules? < 1317553925 585092 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you people are just stuppid prolly < 1317553939 326275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bendmorris/scotch/blob/master/Scotch/Types/FFI.hs < 1317553941 778390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck? < 1317553948 393319 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1317553957 149419 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JIT compilation: after a module is parsed, a binary version is stored, resulting in a significant speedup" < 1317553961 305418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear that pf is: the worst. < 1317553968 45841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1317553968 878575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not pf. < 1317553969 975322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iptables. < 1317553973 85510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fraeudeaudeaudneadn slup. < 1317554000 122012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cloning into linux... < 1317554000 295123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remote: Counting objects: 1319157 < 1317554003 514945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a lot of object. < 1317554026 987702 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he worst? < 1317554033 760066 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not clear to me whether intangibles without instance exist < 1317554034 293623 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/h/Th/ < 1317554045 472170 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you hear that before or after Scotch was created? < 1317554058 996257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, I hear iptables is a pain to use and the BSD things are nicer and less ridiculous. < 1317554062 373124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that just what I hear, and I may mad. < 1317554067 718891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And god knows. < 1317554076 902808 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, gravity seems to require mass.. or does it? < 1317554078 967623 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By the way, I accidentally clicked on "Documentation". < 1317554088 759999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, not really. < 1317554092 27482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in GR. < 1317554092 95906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which documentation? < 1317554093 254997 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And it me mad, just like you promised. < 1317554098 318022 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotch. < 1317554106 924195 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnggghhh im gonna get really wrong if i keep this up < 1317554109 109576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see any documentation. < 1317554118 461023 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scotchlang.org/ < 1317554120 966025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you could try to, you know, learn something for once. < 1317554126 798227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. This me mad. < 1317554126 972567 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nice, man, hash tables. < 1317554129 529841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than going on about how stupid you are. < 1317554141 888138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> [for a in [1,2,3], a + 1] < 1317554141 948983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,3,4] < 1317554144 359156 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as i understand it the ancient indians would discuss the latent nature of fire in the universe < 1317554147 680910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the worst list comprehension syntax anyone has ever made. < 1317554161 550288 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, when the right conditions are present, fire comes to be < 1317554174 294979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> # Scotch evaluation is lazy by default < 1317554174 500626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> GPA.total = ((GPA.current * credits.current) + (GPA.future * credits.future)) / (credits.current + credits.future) < 1317554174 518700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> GPA.current = 3.5 < 1317554174 518864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> credits.current = 90 < 1317554174 518972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> # expressions are evaluated as far as possible; it's ok if some values are undefined < 1317554175 863341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> GPA.total < 1317554177 862158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((315.0 + (GPA.future * credits.future)) / (90 + credits.future)) < 1317554179 605507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Laziness in action. < 1317554190 793060 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whether that means that fire exists in the absence of the conditions of fire is more than my intelligence could say < 1317554198 986660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what does that have to do with what Phantom_Hoover was saying < 1317554228 653234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this GPA thing please tell me. < 1317554241 500781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Scotch. < 1317554244 574345 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at elliott and realizes my extreme lack of relevance.
< 1317554252 250309 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^in my post < 1317554256 370983 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: How dare you! In this channel! < 1317554262 299003 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least elliott is talking about something on-topic. < 1317554268 115992 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even recall why i brought it up < 1317554268 739190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, I've never heard of it. < 1317554274 328419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What. < 1317554287 419540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely I would know about it if it was Scotch. < 1317554294 215497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mad. < 1317554310 663980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I can complain to Scotch for denigrating the good name of Scotland.) < 1317554341 155416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scotchlang.org/docs < 1317554358 930674 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] + 4 == [1,2,3,4] < 1317554359 744577 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes.. well.. in absolute terms, a computation is dependant on some physical instance of a computer < 1317554364 823130 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] + 4 == [1,2,3,4] < 1317554364 958876 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it? < 1317554368 292653 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooo doo doo doo < 1317554369 706338 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooo doo doo doo < 1317554378 215235 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] + [4,5,6] == [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1317554385 894202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I mad. < 1317554396 818867 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Note that lists are heterogeneous. < 1317554408 953173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mad. < 1317554415 325637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Receiving objects: 0% (9914/2138578), 3.75 MiB | 294 KiB/s < 1317554418 614843 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois So < 1317554420 158067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, how long is this going to take exactly. < 1317554424 918539 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the computer is an element of the computation < 1317554428 210442 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One more than you can handle. < 1317554433 747504 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317554434 742073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah. Will it me mad? < 1317554439 630236 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might. < 1317554442 129576 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have been warned. < 1317554443 550352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1317554446 766857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried. < 1317554450 902471 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mad lies that way. < 1317554495 780122 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Scotch supports @. < 1317554502 897984 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you might as well abandon your project. < 1317554503 887127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh no. Can I stop that? < 1317554514 506144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write @ in Scotch. < 1317554514 861457 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only by not mad. < 1317554519 671355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to need to pay people not to write @ software. < 1317554525 604785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta keep the riff-raff out. < 1317554544 819494 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who's considering writing a project in Haskell exactly for that reason. < 1317554545 895082 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could go with GNU/@ < 1317554555 453182 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't want his coworkers to get their grubby paaws on the code. < 1317554563 727582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's considering Haskell and Clojure right now, I think. < 1317554571 836776 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits patiently for GNU/Windows
< 1317554577 174757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He should avoid Clojure; Clojure me mad. < 1317554578 963991 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is whether parentheses or monads are scarier. < 1317554583 316122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You can run a GNU/Windows system fairly easily. < 1317554591 377114 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But the *goal* is to people mad. < 1317554614 31928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey%27s_theorem#Ramsey_numbers < 1317554614 132409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Clojure me mad in the sense that their IRC channel thinks multiplication of the expression inside big-O notation changes it. < 1317554618 137931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if not in "theory", in "practice". < 1317554621 937905 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-D < 1317554631 972114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does Clojure actually have anything scary other than STM, parens, and macros? I mean, it's immutable, but... < 1317554633 721872 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said in #haskell-blah: < 1317554641 530288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Haskell is definitely more inaccessible; use lots of operator characters. < 1317554644 976810 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) isn't cool. You know what's cool? O(1000). < 1317554650 668641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote slow < 1317554653 154605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it terribly amusing that R(5,5) is one of 6 numbers, but we have no idea *which*. < 1317554653 172741 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :249) The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code. \ 302) [on egojoust] The fact is that EgoBot's % handling is O(slow) and O(big), and mine isn't. \ 522) Vorpal: Won't be slower than Python ;-) elliott_, yeah but that is like saying a T-Ford going down a hill won't be slower < 1317554665 479679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, we don't have bsmntbombdood's original O(slow) quote. < 1317554676 977605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can we just guess? < 1317554680 161569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did seem a bit too witty for you. < 1317554683 922614 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. < 1317554705 313932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1 of 7, actually, but eh. < 1317554729 749883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Receiving objects: 16% (344427/2138578), 176.29 MiB | 546 KiB/s < 1317554732 446990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This very quickly me mad. < 1317554737 838534 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very slowly. < 1317554753 167540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It very slowly, but it very quickly me mad. < 1317554791 525639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the deepest philosophical conundra of our times. < 1317554844 226754 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u exponentially mad? < 1317554855 516492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't handle that mad. < 1317554870 892218 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. u polynomial mad? < 1317554908 94354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I linearly mad? < 1317554960 754259 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But if it very slow, and u linearly mad, how can it very quickly u mad? < 1317554971 342999 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/w/wly/ < 1317554973 896460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always just logarithmically mad. people just so damn stupid it's enough. < 1317554974 320333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION strokes chin.
< 1317554981 787006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sounds like u mad, bro. < 1317554990 556601 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just confuse
< 1317555046 535684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, shachaf, shachaf. We all mad a little sometimes. < 1317555074 791747 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION :: Maybe Attitute
< 1317555083 904846 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Nothing | Just Mad?
< 1317555094 600692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u just mad, bro? < 1317555109 833467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317555175 650594 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know, I don't believe you when you said you hate this "u mad" thing. < 1317555187 402435 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be your favorite piece of vocabulary. < 1317555192 267851 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!admin + elliott mad < 1317555192 678159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1317555193 208992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1317555213 51264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I am just sort of revelling in the exquisite decadence of it all at this point. < 1317555223 332314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The self-hate is maintained at moderate levels for a short period of time. < 1317555250 353578 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u just mad < 1317555258 94426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1317555279 357710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Receiving objects: 60% (1301837/2138578), 460.25 MiB | 619 KiB/s < 1317555283 775363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My maddening is lessening somewhat. < 1317555329 444438 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B221.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317555337 132250 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION consider pull elliottcable
< 1317555341 867333 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that* would u mad < 1317555342 996786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augh. < 1317555359 830339 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are u download linux anyway? < 1317555370 448703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally I get the urge to configure a kernel. < 1317555387 446022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing this the logical way, by downloading years and years of Linux development, rather than just the release I want. < 1317555444 970151 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I recommend bitkeeper. < 1317555452 779718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Larry McVoy mad. < 1317555473 103767 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Linus Torvalds and Larry McVoy and Mad, this thread is great: http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/o_direct.html < 1317555480 854910 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thread/collection of messages/ < 1317555519 330735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :McVoy must feel like a real idiot about the Trigdell thing now that git is, like, the most popuar. < 1317555579 441112 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«It sounds simple, but it sounds simple only to an idiot who writes databases and doesn't even UNDERSTAND what an OS is meant to do. For some reasons, db people think that they don't need one, and don't ever seem to really understand the concept of "security" and "correctness".» < 1317555598 158451 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION , as an idiot who writes databases using O_DIRECT, slightly mad
< 1317555609 951558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at O_DIRECT and it was: terrible. < 1317555618 777339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should write databases using something else. Or not write databases. < 1317555623 763289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my mad advice. < 1317555627 54998 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What something else should I use? < 1317555656 910249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, last time I extensively looked into Linux's various AIO stuff it turned out that it all sucked complete shit. < 1317555664 853656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should use FreeBSD or something, I think they have proper kernel AIO. < 1317555665 500146 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1317555676 964418 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention how the Linux AIO interface *only* works with O_DIRECT? < 1317555685 550515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like glibc's POSIX AIO implementation, based on top of blocking IO and pthreads. < 1317555697 677048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the inconvenience, none of the speed. < 1317555708 80724 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that one is truly wonderful. < 1317555725 269214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And none of the even remotely real ones even pretend to work on sockets, so they're useful for... database folk and nobody else. < 1317555736 194980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is, we should just hang the database folk. < 1317555748 348607 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, there's non-blocking IO. < 1317555769 380947 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, apparently the Linux page cache is the only page cache anyone should ever use, no matter how well it fits their purposes or doesn't. < 1317555771 134481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work on sockets, does it? < 1317555787 347068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @ page cache is the only page cache anyone should ever use. < 1317555790 204232 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Non-blocking I/O? It only works on sockets. < 1317555796 226255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is convenient, because @'s design pretty much makes it impossible to use anything else. < 1317555804 127954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh. < 1317555814 506923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh right, it's the useless polling-based one. < 1317555820 521128 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless? < 1317555831 818423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anything that uses all your CPU waiting on IO is useless. < 1317555845 904761 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it use all your CPU waiting on IO? < 1317555868 71978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're trying to get some bytes out of the socket? < 1317555887 48262 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION not understand
< 1317555897 650792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, presumably you do other stuff in that tight loop or you could just use blocking IO. < 1317555903 201975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need to get bytes out at some point. < 1317555925 454385 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1317555942 186506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict you will continue saying huh until I break down and ask you what you're confused about. < 1317555969 510142 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :read() gets the bytes out for you, or tells you there are no bytes right now, and then you wait. Which part is using all your CPU? < 1317555982 474710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait for what? < 1317555987 991377 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For bytes. < 1317555989 394159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a polling API. < 1317556000 963077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use select() or whatever, you don't need to set nonblocking in the first place. < 1317556015 911931 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we mean the same thing by "polling API"? < 1317556035 751741 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *do* use select() or whatever (well, epoll). That's the point of O_NONBLOCK, that you use it with select()orwhatever. < 1317556046 851177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why do you need to set it nonblock? < 1317556083 605413 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :readability (or writeability) indicated by select doesn't imply that all the bytes you ask for will be available in the in/out buffer < 1317556109 659242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could just ask for one byte. < 1317556116 448823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's probably not very smart though. < 1317556139 505813 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not :) < 1317556147 613537 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the exact same behavior as in FreeBSD, anyway, except you use kqueue instead of epoll. < 1317556157 817807 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which part was FreeBSD smart about? Disk I/O? < 1317556185 32794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR FreeBSD's POSIX AIO implementation is Proper for disk files. < 1317556194 78475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also STR that the POSIX AIO API is horrible. < 1317556205 56868 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you *can* use select with blocking sockets if you make sure to ask how many bytes are available before reading so that you "know" you won't block, but I think that's not reliable < 1317556213 299353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~$ du -sh linux < 1317556213 368610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2G linux < 1317556213 474529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1317556240 281112 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Everyone implements their own API on top of it anyway, for everything. < 1317556243 605951 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the C way. < 1317556257 49230 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't matter how bad the API is. < 1317556270 506454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO doesn't matter. < 1317556289 87879 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonder elliott mad
< 1317556298 453228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The maddest. < 1317556305 32132 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1317556325 593852 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use Haskell with the fancy IO manager, and you won't need to mad. < 1317556332 783615 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Haskell/GHC/ < 1317556347 339732 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-blocking I/O is just an excuse to write your own thread implementation and do blocking IO, anyway. < 1317556399 715641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/IO/event/ surely. < 1317556407 575450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, @'s IO model is nice. < 1317556445 978095 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I @'s I/O model in the cloud? < 1317556450 809392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because @ is vapourware. < 1317556453 950651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get it? < 1317556456 272631 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cloud? < 1317556478 778189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ha ha ha. < 1317556481 813138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are the witty. < 1317556496 238278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hmm, there doesn't seem to be a git tag for 3.0.4. < 1317556496 634652 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just lost opportunity to be told about about @'s IO model. :-(
< 1317556508 721867 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's @'s I/O model? < 1317556530 584561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, it has two, if you interpret IO model to mean "the model of whatever you'd consider the IO model in Unix". < 1317556532 67633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, < 1317556577 7885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Its local disk model involves a single address space with a mapping to both disk and physical RAM, with virtual memory being used to map the various objects at their "abstract" locations. < 1317556598 292413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically mmap() on steroids all the way through. Though I'm sure you could access sectors directly. < 1317556599 984056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really wanted to. < 1317556604 51829 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does @ run on 286es? < 1317556613 35730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM also contains, like, the first few generations of the GC. < 1317556619 288065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those don't need to be persisted out. < 1317556627 458620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 64-bit 286es, sure. < 1317556641 420787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual @ model is portable to just about anything, but I don't feel like implementing it for 286s. < 1317556659 566859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it wants more than 32 bits of address space. Unless your disks are two gigs big. < 1317556690 960202 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that reminds me, I was going to get a 16/32GB MicroSD card. < 1317556693 188040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, the IO model used for things like sockets is pretty much: < 1317556695 36260 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? 16 or 32? < 1317556714 35674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Whenever data comes in, it's passed, CPS-style, to a big old bag of handlers registered with that IO port. < 1317556734 747990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's literally it. And writing to a port passes that data, CPS-style, to its write handlers. < 1317556746 135562 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317556746 530155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can trivially make a "pipe" style thing by just hooking up the write handler to a read handler.) < 1317556759 12948 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1317556760 573934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: On top of that, the actual usage can be as-if-blocking. < 1317556761 519553 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced. < 1317556768 216342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, it just uses call/cc or the like and stuffs that in as a handler. < 1317556771 793454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously more involved and with less overhead. < 1317556778 563867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when a thread is blocked on IO, it literally just doesn't exist. < 1317556779 107865 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317556780 995528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's killed. < 1317556810 341026 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317556812 842525 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: 15:00 < 1317556815 45120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Since everything is in ring 0, there's no kernel<->userspace context switching / data copying overhead, so you don't really need buffers of significant size to get decent IO performance. < 1317556859 910050 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1317556867 785684 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you've sold me. < 1317556870 589790 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION download @.iso
< 1317556872 742809 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1317556874 314917 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317556884 600057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This is the experience of most @ devotees so far. < 1317556918 282909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you've read the Synthesis paper, I pretty much stole the basic IO model from there, except instead of ridiculously micro-optimising my syscall stuff I just don't do the whole userspace thing. < 1317556926 33241 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In what sense is the thread "killed" that a thread isn't normally killed when it does blocking IO? < 1317556936 502268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess it isn't quite as elegantly CPS in Synthesis. < 1317556948 645873 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synthesis paper? < 1317556956 599443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Synthesis OS thesis. < 1317556959 102893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theithieshiehsiheis. < 1317556969 356226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, it isn't really. But, I mean, you could literally throw away all information about the thread if you wanted to, and the handler added would respawn it. < 1317556998 717568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more efficient just to move it away from the set of scheduled tasks and then have the handler move it back and resume the continuation like that, but... if you wanted to completely eliminate any thread that blocks on IO, you could. < 1317557012 266291 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, because it has a continuation. < 1317557015 669851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1317557030 187426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just say "Oh, you blocked on IO? I'm forgetting about you forever, goodbye." < 1317557032 473919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called an OOM killer. < 1317557041 827614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it is a remarkably low-overhead way of handling IO. < 1317557061 798984 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317557103 478316 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION implemented part of a userspace coöperative threading library for C++.
< 1317557113 60327 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like more or less the same thing? < 1317557125 592234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, @ threads are preemptively switched. < 1317557146 205765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that may be partially in the form of "the compiler inserts a yield in a place it deems nice". < 1317557156 26207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But yes, the way it handles IO is like coroutines. < 1317557160 989144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like cooperative threading. < 1317557161 115465 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, like GHC threads are preëmptively switched. < 1317557180 249157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's always going to be timer-based switching. < 1317557192 399214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when you have everything going through a certain compiler, you can afford to be smart about it. < 1317557210 776531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ kind of cheats a lot like that, by simply demanding to know more about the structure of whatever's running on it, which in turn eliminates all the pesky problems. < 1317557211 667710 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC threads can be preëmpted either when the OS thread they're on is preëmpted or when they allocate memory. < 1317557286 928150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[*] DMA memory allocation support < 1317557291 341225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how this is a top-level menu item in menuconfig. < 1317557303 28473 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how GHC wins the thread-ring entry on the shootout. < 1317557316 724446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ha. < 1317557328 25838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (The guy behind it will get mad at you on the internet if you call it the "shootout".) < 1317557343 964134 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shootout.alioth.debian.org < 1317557365 163409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, seriously, I've seen him on comment threads. < 1317557374 713149 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=threadring < 1317557376 75520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason it doesn't appear anywhere on the actual page. :p < 1317557387 701430 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Programs may use pre-emptive kernel threads or pre-emptive lightweight threads; but programs that use non pre-emptive threads (coroutines, cooperative threads) and any programs that use custom schedulers, will be listed as interesting alternative implementations.» < 1317557429 378937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of a ridiculous criterion. < 1317557433 829797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clojure Timed Out 15 min < 1317557438 681477 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Haskell won the shootout, so how can I mad? < 1317557440 900579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hickey mad. < 1317557443 550094 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ain't even mad
< 1317557517 459167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad that ATS is so low down there < 1317557523 478623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, has a bunch of inline C. < 1317557526 670973 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317557574 420438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's the one-core benchmark. < 1317557582 624380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=threadring < 1317557585 506462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, still wins. < 1317557587 405276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages mad. < 1317557615 899493 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure he'll mad at your if you say "languages" instead of "implementations". < 1317557625 703076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The languages are shootouting. < 1317557629 459659 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/your/your/ < 1317557632 344222 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317557645 326680 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fingers mad
< 1317557687 328234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the page where you can tweak the balances of each benchmark and the like so that your language wins? < 1317557698 115432 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombo.com < 1317557700 841050 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This benchmark is hilarious. < 1317557701 663789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1317557707 244149 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread-ring, I mean. < 1317557715 887551 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't mad at zombocom. < 1317557728 977318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought I could do anything. < 1317557730 961862 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do anything, and somehow you can't mad. < 1317557735 518069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing. < 1317557742 325577 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a paradox. < 1317557762 533191 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should write about @ and put it on a web page thingy. < 1317557765 917755 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would read it. < 1317557807 55614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, I wrote a buzzwordy kind of five-paragraph introduction thing once. Or do you mean some kind of substantial development diary? Because, I mean, that would require work, but... < 1317557832 632828 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, ELABORATE ON ALL THE THINGS. < 1317557847 390511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. :p < 1317557854 159140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could do with a bit more... structure. < 1317557870 391593 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, something. So when someone says "Look at how cool my operating system is", I can say "that's nothing! Look @ this thing!" < 1317557885 877354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are good things to be thinking. < 1317557904 151877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could get around with that "setting up some sort of blahg thing" thing sometimes. < 1317557907 283960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels so pretentious. < 1317557928 676326 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to blech it. :-( < 1317557935 462049 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a web page that has things in it. < 1317557944 757870 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is mad by blechs.
< 1317557967 657911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but you see, the advantage of a blauhgjlkfdshlgj is that I don't have to organise it. < 1317557970 734244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sites need organisation and shit. < 1317557985 905087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blgfjkdflshs, you just put a little line every now and then saying "I slept a lot in between these bits". < 1317557998 721415 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1317558010 478400 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the text is there it doesn't matter. < 1317558021 525407 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, sure, write a abdlfapu/nqwndkladf. < 1317558034 854401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I will write a ?XZ|D>SF?gkxh,c;lv.h < 1317558045 212916 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would, like, totally add it to his RSS reader.
< 1317558048 305531 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had an RSS reader. < 1317558049 930704 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't. < 1317558067 886439 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd read it, or something. < 1317558083 146757 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can outdo comonad.com. < 1317558108 774518 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm only awake right now because of you, by the way. < 1317558109 626187 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317558119 295613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get into reading comonad.com. It not me mad, but it not me enthral overly much. < 1317558137 459149 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.myspace.com/penguinofthegods < 1317558148 86472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1317558153 948345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I made that. < 1317558177 984933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A lot of people used to make accounts for me when I refuse to.) < 1317558182 205318 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to say Elliott Hird. < 1317558183 547260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A lot of bad, bad people.) < 1317558190 445811 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you = sargetron? < 1317558195 719939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1317558200 991673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stop googling for me. < 1317558211 733100 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ElliottHird < 1317558212 857461 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1317558227 502305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be one of my ancient user pages, but I really don't remember any more. < 1317558230 630868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about fifty Wikipedia accounts. < 1317558258 473558 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is any of them an administrator? < 1317558267 335838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I use my shadowy cabal connections for that. < 1317558282 502745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cabal shadow < 1317558282 577271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal: unrecognised command: shadow (try --help) < 1317558286 169148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shadowy, yet mysterious. < 1317558307 344379 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can I "google" sargetron? < 1317558328 26334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I "shachaf" a "mad"? < 1317558335 131599 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bing.com elliott
< 1317558335 958279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I too had really better be going. Thou verily art maddest. < 1317558338 920317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317558345 701648 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1317558347 189166 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad
< 1317559045 870463 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4f9ed.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317559105 648626 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317559105 849512 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317559720 465176 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317560056 860406 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317560085 990324 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317560902 343557 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_wave_principle < 1317561697 438617 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the fractal economist < 1317561894 936365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust789.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317561896 893230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust789.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1317561896 911254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317561909 492924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have moneys been donated to Scotch? < 1317561956 46607 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1317562099 636677 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like yasm uses 256-bit addresses internally... seems a bit overkill < 1317562479 435217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know how many bits you'll need. < 1317562513 140063 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :) yasm actually seems to be using a variable-length encoding to theoretically support any address size < 1317562607 738419 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317562629 225915 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I accidentally tricked it (by using a negative address) into printing all the addresses in the mapfile as 256-bit numbers < 1317563591 891734 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.110.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317563960 316431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317564177 352587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317564774 17747 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317564969 253719 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1317565348 190732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-158.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317565372 566229 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-248.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317567087 356153 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-158.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott The 3.x.y releases aren't on Linus's tree. < 1317567087 638199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1317567189 747368 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.110.37 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317567393 548383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317567487 380346 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317567917 624926 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's a good name for "the address where I've mapped all available physical memory into virtual memory"? < 1317568049 790195 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-138.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317568055 92088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-158.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317568471 677160 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could be all retro and call it the "core". < 1317568628 319365 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently linux calls it "logical" addresses < 1317568695 470575 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not so logical, since it doesn't in any way indicate all physical memory is there. < 1317568744 411354 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been calling it the "kernel base", but that seems wrong since the kernel itself is just one page of it < 1317569134 770385 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317569134 828314 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317570353 356672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317571213 557095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317571667 144883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-205.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317571675 654250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-138.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317572150 109655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317573512 951350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-47.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317573529 85995 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-205.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317573629 583339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9*9*4 < 1317573630 492034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 324 < 1317574004 473408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((300000000)^2)/(2*6.67*10^(-11)) < 1317574005 457465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Negative exponent < 1317574012 420860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the love of < 1317574032 134813 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((300000000)**2)/(2*6.67*10**(-11)) < 1317574032 800244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.746626686656672e26 < 1317574242 308673 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317574775 491871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up Deewiant < 1317575564 462199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317576091 483714 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317577237 673158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is something wrong with my gopher server program, that when it closes connection before the request is complete, it will use 100% CPU for one minute. < 1317577375 676449 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-253.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317577380 722585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-47.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317577618 843272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, have you written it in Enhanced CWEB? < 1317577782 131339 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, but I do have one written in Enhanced CWEB at FreeGeek, so when I can get that program, I could use that one. However, its configuration is compiled into the executable program instead of a separate file, but it could still do < 1317577833 462846 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317577886 465310 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mysoft: How do you do that in FreeBasic? < 1317577924 599876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1317578150 227817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317578194 97867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a programming language concept.
< 1317578200 795180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317578223 119400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like pinball game? < 1317578225 141572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially continuation passing style with side-effects. < 1317578245 971860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two first-class citizens would be continuations and environments. < 1317578289 480322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this is not very esoteric. < 1317578292 886273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: haven't played much. < 1317578530 228871 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it will be esoteric in that I can make some static guarantees that you wouldn't typically make with this kind of model (where different scopes can be mutated dynamically) ...I think. < 1317578546 7847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the right semantics.. < 1317579224 423310 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is bytemark7.spotonnet.co.uk? They are connecting to my gopher server, which is OK, though. They have no gopher server, but they do have an unconfigured HTTP server. < 1317579235 135223 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running on CentOS. < 1317579280 208048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317579300 102167 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does my computer have a connection to host.ilati.net? < 1317579321 426700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is on their port 80, not mine. < 1317579497 571106 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317579520 906393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am wondering is what is this for: TCP zzo38computer:1782 host.ilati.net:http ESTABLISHED I don't know who they are and do not even have a web-browser program loaded at this time. < 1317579522 466833 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317579547 333380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have this line; I don't know what it means, do you know? TCP zzo38computer:1425 router:9393 CLOSE_WAIT < 1317579807 722610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, "netstat -np" may help; -n will give an address in place of the name 'router', and more importantly -p will tell which process the connection belongs to. < 1317579848 618738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows, I'm not sure how to map connections to processes. < 1317579870 569434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Windows, and I know what address 'router' belongs to because I configured it myself. It corresponds to the router that my computer is connected to. < 1317579896 403622 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do not know, is what that connection is for. < 1317580060 897926 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 9393 mostly seems to be used by a VoIP thing called TalkSwitch (unlikely), and an open-source vulnerability scanner called OpenVAS (equally unlikely?). < 1317580079 940444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-233-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317580088 225341 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-253.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317580130 755222 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have either of those. But the router is also connected to my brother's computer wirelessly, I don't know if he uses VoIP but I don't know why the connection would appear on my computer if it is. < 1317580179 618307 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently at least on some versions of Windows, if you say "netstat -ano" it will also show PIDs that you can then look up in the Task Manager. ("-o" is the relevant switch.) < 1317580282 659941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK that helped a bit. I do have a "process" command to list processes. I looked at the PID for both of those connections and neither appears on the process list. < 1317580310 160844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, actually the router one does. < 1317580324 285274 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is some service process. < 1317580403 844519 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317580418 842938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-233-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317580428 414948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I found information about that service. < 1317580504 908115 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317580588 329266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has \Device\NamedPipe\ROUTER open, as well as HKU\S-1-5-19\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\ZoneMap, and \Device\WebDavRedirector < 1317580740 216088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The service is listening on ports 1863 and 5000 for TCP, and 1900 UDP. I found the list of services belonging to that process. They are SSDPSRV and WebClient. < 1317580914 333333 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDP is part of the UPnP thing, which (among other things) contains features for software automagically opening inbound ports on a router. The connection to the router might be related. But I'm certainly no Windows expert. < 1317581328 819579 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever program is connecting to host.ilati.net appears to be loading the process to connect and then disconnect and then loading the process again to connect again, making it difficult to find the process that is causing those connections. < 1317581433 538059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell Windows to reload the hosts file? < 1317581550 34691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I received a HTTP request a few seconds ago for "http://www.silkool.com/cgi-bin/son!fuckyou.php" < 1317581648 938215 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a probe for badly configured proxies. < 1317581670 384285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it did already reload hosts file. < 1317581717 739426 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My logfile seems to have quite many requests of "GET http://vlad-tepes.bofh.it/freenode-proxy-checker.txt". < 1317581739 29546 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317581746 137488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever program is making the connection to host.ilati.net is not using that domain name, though. < 1317581755 409087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not using the name host.ilati.net < 1317581759 513499 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't >>= sort of the same thing as CPS? < 1317581777 797000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some extra rules. < 1317581960 943381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1317581996 79795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1317582162 574955 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that the Windows Firewall would let you make a outgoing rule that would block connections to that host, and then you could perhaps see which application it was that tried to connect from the firewall log. But I do not know of the details. < 1317582245 139526 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1317582251 45144 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317582254 896905 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what that host.ilati.net is. It is the same as sa.column80.com which is proper; I have a gopher service that connects to that server. < 1317582264 555989 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317582517 1949 :calamari!~calamari@173-148-195-13.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317582611 231881 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not only robots.txt; now there are some requests for humans.txt on my HTTP log. < 1317582703 901295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get many requests for things like "/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:NO_Body&action=edit" which I know are on the MFGG wiki and which is not on my computer!! < 1317582723 60659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told them on their IRC a few times, but they don't know why these requests are on my computer either. < 1317582831 331696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, User_talk:NO_Body, User:NO_Body, Image_talk:NB_Art_Ref.png, Image:NB_Art_Ref.png, Special:Upload, and various things in the Mario_Fan_Games_Galaxy_Wiki: namespace. < 1317583574 972321 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317583590 781141 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, captcha was partial derivative thingy < 1317583597 803386 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d^2/dy^2 is what I wrote < 1317583605 102001 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it was using the partial derivative symbol < 1317583619 307419 :calamari!~calamari@173-148-195-13.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1317583757 675766 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particuarly like those CAPTCHA. Sometimes they are hard to read, sometimes they use symbols that I do not have on my computer, and they won't work if images/scripts are disabled or unsupported. < 1317583804 254744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, they waste energy. < 1317583829 598077 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317583895 91670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they... waste... energy. < 1317583936 652790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read of a different system someone has used. It uses CSS to hide a few form fields that should not be filled in. If CSS is disabled or unsupported, it says "Please do not fill these fields" < 1317584109 441430 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way to avoid spam messages is to prohibit comments over HTTP and SMTP. < 1317584198 219292 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this works for me; I only allow comments over gopher protocol. Spambots don't access gopher protocol, so it works. The text is still viewable by HTTP, though. < 1317584275 914711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a service named "PhlogJournal"; I occasionally put stuff there. People can send comments too, but only gopher, not HTTP. < 1317584305 603115 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317584386 762862 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317584428 928183 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gopher movie time service has been broken for a long time; do you know how I could fix it please? When it worked, it worked extremely well. Now it doesn't work at all. < 1317584641 753842 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official Discussion Thread - Episode 13: The Wedding of Discussion < 1317584949 576018 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1317585703 945901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1317586385 567788 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317586410 830986 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317586521 92383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- also, it's surprisingly annoying to google for, with main google insisting on autocorrecting by adding "pollution" and google maps showing some insignificant town named "lake [...] michigan" < 1317586525 976570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1317586531 207350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lake Michigan looks like Norway <-- also, it's surprisingly annoying to google for, with main google insisting on autocorrecting by adding "pollution" and google maps showing some insignificant town named "lake [...] michigan" < 1317586605 393200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it must be _really_ polluted, if that's more famous than the lake itself. < 1317586722 944713 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :googles auto-complete stuff is /really/ annoying. < 1317586756 882471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I really need it is when I'm not entirely clear on the spelling or name of something. < 1317586770 795793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean autocorrect? < 1317586779 938771 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that can be annoying sometimes. < 1317586800 18415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I mean autocorrect. < 1317586802 849783 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317586812 695168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also in Chrome the way it saves previous searches and uses those if you type something similar < 1317586826 188299 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1317586838 786680 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is incredibly annoying. Yes, I know you can backspace but I often type queries very fast and don't take time to notice that google has suddenly changed my search. < 1317586900 309209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you might want to check the last log lines, it started with a response to you < 1317586961 284 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1317586969 391641 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wikipedia'd the both < 1317587002 220507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm divided on that google instant thing. it slows down my laptop enough that i sometimes cannot see what i'm writing, which is annoying when i'm not sure if i've typoed < 1317587017 663699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it annoyingly steals up/down arrows < 1317587039 150469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i thought google maps would be quicker, but no... < 1317587043 845358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lake [...] Michigan" is a weird name for a town; I didn't think they'd do that punctuation-rich names. < 1317587053 374151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats fizzie -----###
< 1317587103 227433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially since google is my homepage) < 1317587105 927038 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I'm owed a swat but I can't remember what for < 1317587121 935902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: for claiming Geom is not TC, i think < 1317587129 377494 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was before that < 1317587130 278473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one reason why, I prefer to avoid to use Google. < 1317587136 475608 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I redacted that comment < 1317587139 992141 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set my homepage to about:blank < 1317587200 323061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well i could probably change it in the preferences. but when my laptop isn't too busy, sometimes instant is nice < 1317587241 342322 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspected it wasn't, stated that opinion, made it public, and lo and behold it was wrong < 1317587249 646530 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1317587275 295344 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317587289 422398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they've made doodles that nearly made my laptop croak, too < 1317587292 26968 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317587302 334087 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317587446 149543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I also like how it doesn't have a case for constant multiples and can't be used to build up derivatives because the chain rule isn't there. < 1317587482 38330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :both the product rule and the chain rule are special cases of the multivariable chain rule < 1317587517 382128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also nice to use for exponentials, i think < 1317587518 443455 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have that either. < 1317587582 398187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once at school I found a infinite series for ${\rm e}^x$ in the math textbook, and I was also taking calculus class (it is a separate class and did not use these textbook). And then I realized I can figure out the derivative so I did, and it is the same thing. < 1317587604 96940 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bed is a wifi death spot < 1317587659 200505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah that's nice. although you need to prove that power series can be differentiated term by term < 1317587665 776644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also figured out the derivatives for sine and cosine, and because I knew that the teacher decide to ask me about the derivative of tangent, too, which I managed to figure out too; because the teacher told us about the rules for derivatives of divisions and all that stuff, so it can be figure out. < 1317587684 3898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think we have already done so in calculus class before that time. < 1317587690 143813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : My bed is a wifi death spot <-- so move from your bed to elsewhere then? < 1317587724 161263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I never enjoyed using a laptop in bed. I find it very awkward, and I like a cooling pad anyway. < 1317587734 883869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we only dealt with finite series; I just assumed it worked for infinite series too. Later when I asked the teacher he told me it was correct. < 1317587775 118641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the thing is it only works for some kinds of infinite series, because of possible convergence problems < 1317587797 490651 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What kinds does it work and not work? < 1317587799 758803 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317587827 563773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it works for power series (maclaurin and taylor series), i'm not sure for which others < 1317587863 69609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike calculus, it is so messy compared to linear algebra for example. Or set theory < 1317587863 972422 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power series are the only thing I ever tried to use it for anyways. < 1317587986 101053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :power series are central to complex analysis, because functions which are differentiable wrt. complex numbers automatically have them < 1317588044 962122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: currently I have a course at university which is basically about calculus with many variables. < 1317588154 729368 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will tell you about the electronics class at my school. The year I entered, the teacher decided he would teach electronics theory as well, but he didn't know much about it. He said, the water atom is the simplest atom, it has only one electron. Half the students in the class including myself said that is wrong, what it really is, etc. So he said, OK, so it has 3 electrons. (Still wrong!) < 1317588182 958164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bad :P < 1317588216 629188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hydrogen is from the greek word for water < 1317588257 839555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He had a container with some resistors in it, he passed it around the classroom and asked each student to take one. He explained how to determine their value (he was correct about those). But them some students had resistors with five bands. He said those were diodes, not resistors, and we should throw them out. < 1317588277 173448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1317588279 224307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a mess < 1317588303 148230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall the color codes although i have seen my father work with them < 1317588323 617598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the color codes; as far as I can tell they are designed to be easy to remember. < 1317588336 805149 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The teacher didn't believe me when I told him I noticed that.) < 1317588339 728109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a lookup table for resistor colour codes. Or an ohm-meter < 1317588341 930697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :far easier XD < 1317588372 555714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed to be easy to remember? Really? < 1317588401 734320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall the system is essentially a kind of floating point < 1317588422 748144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of yes < 1317588423 726807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is similar to floating point. < 1317588446 191567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is the issue of figuring out which way to read it < 1317588450 695671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be so bad otherwise < 1317588473 960045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If the tolerance band is on, it is known which direction to read. < 1317588482 469067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and if it isn't? < 1317588490 652617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it is difficult. < 1317588495 685596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1317588516 596125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look at the top one in https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Resistors_color_code.jpg < 1317588528 241891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be a LOT of bands? < 1317588778 526803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later on he gave all the students a schematic diagram for an electronic circuit, and put another copy on the board so that he could explain it. He did not explain it very well, but he could explain it a bit. He explained how to use a breadboard to build it. < 1317588859 358182 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One group of students came to my table to ask for help. To them, it looked correct. To me, it looked like many wires were connected to themself, some LEDs were connected backwards, there was only one resistor (which was not even of the correct value), and the power lines were not connected at all. < 1317588923 904459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was this? pre-high school? < 1317588934 707501 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it was high school. < 1317588937 587719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1317588996 868148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I explained to them the wrong wires and so on, and I explained that there are supposed to be four resistors and not of this value. They said since they had a larger resistor, they only needed one (the resistor they used was in fact physically larger than the ones we ordinarily used). I told them the value was wrong, by the color stripes, and then they said those stripes are only for decoration. < 1317589063 705591 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now something about the schematic diagrams we have been given. The transistors were labels T1 and T2. I told the teacher it should be Q1 and Q2, but he didn't believe me. < 1317589194 340988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The teacher was good at PCBs; he did know how to use the etching and resist pens and all that stuff. That is one thing he was good at. < 1317589273 160054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it was time to build that circuit on the PCB, mine didn't work. I eventually figured out why. The schematic diagram he gave to all the students had an error in it; there was an extra wire that doesn't belong. Once I cut that trace, it worked. < 1317589292 880009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this was strange; all the other student's boards worked correctly the first time. < 1317589557 511632 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317589563 919614 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317589580 934516 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, doing things a tricky and not obvious way < 1317589599 485841 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x -> last $ zipWith const [1..] ['a'..x] < 1317589601 240281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It seem to me the proper mathematical way. < 1317589659 686154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that is strange way, though. < 1317589684 44715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Ix < 1317589684 254198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Ord a) => Ix a where < 1317589684 466828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : range :: (a,a) -> [a] < 1317589684 484824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : index :: (a,a) -> a -> Int < 1317589684 485043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : inRange :: (a,a) -> a -> Bool < 1317589684 485149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : rangeSize :: (a,a) -> Int < 1317589708 730612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 'z' in index ('a',x) x < 1317589709 454867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 25 < 1317589737 177796 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that way seem better < 1317589747 994351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :off-by-one though < 1317589776 295823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1317589784 365445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rangeSize ('a','z') < 1317589785 137691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 26 < 1317589870 746873 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((+1) . on subtract fromEnum 'a') 'z' < 1317589872 291546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 26 < 1317589888 425346 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 'z' in length ['a'..x] < 1317589889 158090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 26 < 1317589907 298095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: rangeSize is more efficient though, i think < 1317589957 567918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's version might work for most Enums though < 1317589966 225248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not floats) < 1317589971 895529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1317589972 458655 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All sensible Enums. < 1317589975 650868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 1.0 < 1317589976 445653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1317589979 517887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 1.1 < 1317589980 230379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1317589984 88273 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so, if function is called f, you have f = rangeSize . (,) 'a' < 1317589994 510414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really only have one major problem with haskell: that it is so hard to know the best and/or fastest way to do something in haskell. < 1317590005 452903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317590055 913120 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; I was thinking about that too. You could have the compiler can prove some things about it to optimize it, and you can also specify your own proofs of various things, to make the program more efficient. < 1317590075 934028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazyness, while cool in general makes it hard for me to make any sort of useful prediction about how efficient some code will be. < 1317590089 689718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is possible Deewiant's method works for floats too, modulo rounding errors < 1317590110 167812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 0.9 < 1317590110 925636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1317590133 797965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the way you would do things in mathematics is not necessarily the same way it would be done by computer. < 1317590173 794686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that doesn't solve best way though. Since there can still be the case of neater code using a few standard library functions instead of the huge function you just wrote < 1317590208 579533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x y -> x <= y ==> (((+1) . on subtract fromEnum x) y == length [x..y :: Double] < 1317590208 850725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unbalanced parentheses < 1317590209 27669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1317590209 698783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1317590223 322452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x y -> x <= y ==> (((+1) . on subtract fromEnum x) y == length [x..y :: Double]) < 1317590223 931675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Test.QuickCheck.Testable < 1317590224 156985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Test.QuickCh... < 1317590232 231982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1317590235 734728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes, that is a different thing. Although it applies in general to computer programming, as well as to mathematics in some cases. < 1317590236 507799 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ==> doesn't work in lambdabot IIRC < 1317590243 343414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317590254 367985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x y -> x > y || (((+1) . on subtract fromEnum x) y == length [x..y :: Double]) < 1317590254 968214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 1 tests:\n-2.6666666666666665\n0.6666666666666666\n" < 1317590255 475730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not really hard to learn with a small standard library like that of C. < 1317590257 858436 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It used to work, but not for some years) < 1317590260 856094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has a huge standard library < 1317590275 833406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1317590276 686416 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317590295 974071 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum (-2.66) < 1317590296 706717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x y -> x > y || (((+1) . on subtract fromEnum x) y == length [x..y :: Rational]) < 1317590296 724773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -2 < 1317590297 335098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 7 tests:\n(-1) % 2\n0 % 1\n" < 1317590301 191430 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, there are still differences, such as C smaller standard library. And therefore you can understand it better in C library possibly. < 1317590303 431255 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317590310 991989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh. < 1317590319 955094 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [-2.666 .. 0.66] < 1317590320 723206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-2.666,-1.666,-0.6659999999999999,0.3340000000000001] < 1317590334 218813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x y -> x > y || x < 0 || (((+1) . on subtract fromEnum x) y == length [x..y :: Rational]) < 1317590334 823405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 11 tests:\n0 % 1\n1 % 2\n" < 1317590355 118116 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0%1 .. 1%2] < 1317590355 782879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0 % 1,1 % 1] < 1317590359 444908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that too < 1317590364 450150 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fromEnum [0%1 .. 1%2] < 1317590365 330408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1] < 1317590415 261212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's a coincidence, i think < 1317590429 827705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have said to use something like reverse . reverse = id and some people complain it doesn't work; but I think that is not mathematically correct anyways. An infinite list has no final element, and the list must always have an initial element; therefore the reverse is not defined, so it doesn't work. < 1317590538 800217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that only works for finite lists < 1317590554 104425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point it only work for lists < 1317590570 494995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reverse < 1317590571 233864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] < 1317590574 118204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317590592 177573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's a standard typeclass for reversible types :P < 1317590638 419121 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://science.cabot.ac.uk/index.php/2011/10/a-star-set-to-blow/ < 1317590639 610985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1317590645 528949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that would work on a tree, at least < 1317590825 389021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that sounds a bit imprecise though, i recall betelgeuse is also "any moment" but that one could be now or in a million years < 1317590859 765943 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317590872 503441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps this type is supposed to be more predictable < 1317590963 818745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, some idiot on the comments thread thinks that he's an expert on relativity but doesn't understand that simultaneity is defined in all reference frames. < 1317591013 829310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dunning-kruger < 1317591039 58013 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swatpans oerjan --==\#/
< 1317591116 362871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, i'll be here all week, unless they drag me away < 1317591304 489938 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317591354 687646 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1317591493 744796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayieeeeeh! < 1317591495 972530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hi < 1317591505 289346 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, wifi deathspot < 1317591514 59156 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably disconnect again soon < 1317591625 853055 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317591962 365487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you placed bets on the D&D game yet? < 1317592157 222450 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317592199 938924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @where elliott < 1317592204 484235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list where < 1317592204 695236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where provides: where url what where+ < 1317592214 939593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fromList < 1317592215 683316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (MonadRandom m) => [(a, Rational)] -> m a < 1317592222 442802 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny fromList to pick. < 1317592223 422357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592223 660949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice! < 1317592226 735652 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317592237 158644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1317592237 535667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592241 932379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much would people here hate me if I submitted [[BF Joust strategies]] to proggit? < 1317592243 167467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1317592247 848569 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nortumblerland. < 1317592250 209725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so much. < 1317592255 720402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592255 914052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1317592267 217263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1317592267 465097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592272 447097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To me, I don't care if you do or not. < 1317592272 763724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592273 165606 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1317592279 663682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1317592280 893548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317592281 902849 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To other people, I don't know. < 1317592283 359118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'll do it anyway < 1317592283 914407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what < 1317592286 440514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592286 643771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice! < 1317592297 544958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar fail! < 1317592323 585216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It makes sense the PH way too. "Where's elliott? Tumbling around tumble-land." < 1317592372 924664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1317592373 252781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1317592374 899094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the danger is they'll end up here to try it out < 1317592380 815455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1317592388 632945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can probably handle it, though < 1317592403 202554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case we just put EgoBot in #irp and let them try it there < 1317592415 766284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#irp's /intended purpose/ is as a honeypot for Redditors) < 1317592424 264269 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I have no idea what the point of Katamari is < 1317592460 540361 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: to pick up stuff into your katamari so that you may form new stars. < 1317592467 195498 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO RESTORE COSMIC ORDER. < 1317592476 345012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good programming article, anyway < 1317592483 172932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i* redditor pot < 1317592493 822932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: the /plot/ is irrelevant, the point is that it's fun to roll arbitrary objects up into a giant ball < 1317592499 948907 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do I form a new star once I collect stuff? < 1317592508 94679 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just playing with Katamari Hack < 1317592508 976109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens < 1317592517 397416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, that's the primary game mode < 1317592524 500488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you roll shit up in a certain amount of time and then you win. < 1317592545 680999 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317592552 573605 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1317592577 133101 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "irctacular". < 1317592580 447288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: be vewy vewy quiet, i'm backwonyming < 1317592644 512967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i ... dunno < 1317592735 508660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ircular. Ircsome. Ircoid. Irreverent. Wait, it's diverging. < 1317592794 396413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inevitable. < 1317592806 950194 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317592994 400150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hah, the good old days of #haskell, when everyone thought I worked at Galois. <-- wait shachaf is a haskell _impostor_? < 1317593044 956673 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah, you're reading the backlog. < 1317593059 25167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not working about Galois makes you an impostor now? :-( < 1317593063 955988 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impostor. < 1317593097 352873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the conclusion was based on other nearby comments as well. < 1317593128 362887 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317593187 851527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as you being about the same #haskell age as elliott. < 1317593217 235086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly your aura of ancient haskell guru is fake. < 1317593221 837925 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you've found me out. < 1317593230 89597 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad? < 1317593233 131902 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sure mad
< 1317593254 428194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :u thant < 1317593339 624727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317593355 806392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317593575 751148 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317593635 662476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a music file called "fracture_in_space.mod" I found that one of the samples seems to be not a sound file but part of "Turbo Debugger 80386 Device Driver Version 2.0; Copyright (C) 1988, 1990 by Borland International, Inc." < 1317593674 550529 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1317593687 353717 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how that got in there. < 1317593704 509449 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do i < 1317593755 627578 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if you look at what should be the sound data for sample 1, it is not a proper sound data but it is some binary containing that text in ASCII. < 1317593895 442311 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows it sound? :P < 1317593901 790773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should watch the trine credits. I think it was in the "thanks to" section that coffee was mentioned XD < 1317593920 921895 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not sound like a proper sound effect, but it is not a problem because it is not used in the music at all. < 1317593934 919882 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317593991 404772 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they deleted sample 1, but the tracker program they used used all samples in order anyways, so filled it in with whatever was in memory. < 1317594020 26995 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317594067 970048 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317594068 870726 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317594122 28491 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they actually used the device driver as a sample? < 1317594140 8421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they used the mod file to sneak the device driver around < 1317594150 487541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is only a part of the binary though. Not the entire device driver. < 1317594161 618648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not nearly enough to use it. < 1317594192 130785 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1317594192 148694 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317594192 148826 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1317594210 857826 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is somewhere else < 1317594228 525911 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked in the MOD file using a hex editor and it is not there. < 1317594237 534243 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if the rest is somewhere else, it is in a different file. < 1317594240 248401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317594299 907622 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a MOD file that contains random music? < 1317594302 631373 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds cool < 1317594331 239280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it does not contain random music. It contains proper music; the sample 1 (not used in the music) is the only one having the device driver code. < 1317594394 955308 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn < 1317594434 833332 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, misunderstood Maybe they deleted sample 1, but the tracker program they used used all samples in order anyways, so filled it in with whatever was in memory. < 1317594516 846776 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317594529 92688 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be weird, a .mod file that exploits a bug in some .mod player < 1317594544 3906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317594576 110958 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:28] That would be weird, a .mod file that exploits a bug in some .mod player < 1317594862 393047 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've finally permanently decided that there are better channels for my personal issues than here < 1317595203 136536 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably a wise decision. < 1317595387 329706 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to live anymore and I can't stop drinking, help. < 1317595524 372504 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then go to somewhere that they have to test drugs or whatever, and then if the test fails then you will be dead from it. Or, run away and get eaten by the bears. Or put ductape on your mouth so that you are forced to stop drinking. < 1317595589 847402 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Drink more? < 1317596113 684845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: poor other channel. That is all < 1317596117 352990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, not here < 1317596134 933002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : My logfile seems to have quite many requests of "GET http://vlad-tepes.bofh.it/freenode-proxy-checker.txt". < 1317596150 403893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i've seen that mentioned in their faq or something < 1317596189 516352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well or it may not be freenode's own, of course < 1317596223 605882 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added two new messages in PhlogJournal. < 1317596239 866285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait no it's the server message at freenode startup < 1317596272 616947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 - freenode runs an open proxy scanner. Your use of the network < 1317596272 783131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 - indicates your acceptance of this policy. For details on < 1317596272 801048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 - freenode network policy, please take a look at our policy < 1317596272 801203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 - page (http://freenode.net/policy.shtml). Thank you for using < 1317596272 801308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:01 - the network! < 1317596294 368315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, kind of strange to echo it back through the same connection. < 1317596371 591719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er, you mean my paste? < 1317596385 774396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the line "http://vlad-tepes.bofh.it/freenode-proxy-checker.txt"" < 1317596390 839556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/""/"/ < 1317596548 462890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, I had to chmod -x /usr/bin/pulseaudio to get sound to work suddenly < 1317596553 983752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck pulseaudio < 1317596662 749949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Specifically, User_talk:NO_Body, User:NO_Body, Image_talk:NB_Art_Ref.png, Image:NB_Art_Ref.png, Special:Upload, and various things in the Mario_Fan_Games_Galaxy_Wiki: namespace. < 1317596691 677673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wild guess, you don't have a file on your own http server which is copied from there, and which might contain those links? < 1317596714 826033 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I accidentally copied a file that has those links; I have never intended to do so. < 1317596718 425583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look. < 1317597060 434323 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have intended to copy it and have just forgotten, then I might want to add the BASE tag to specify where it actually is; but I think I saved a copy of that file somewhere in the directories accessible by my HTTP server by accident. < 1317597095 136037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317597097 314057 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317597573 534511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I noticed I do not enjoy yogscast videos of a game I played (apart from minecraft) because I see all the mistakes they make all the time. < 1317597578 728037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in Dead Island. < 1317597599 703541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fucking bad playing. Yet I discovered that game through yogscast. But yeah they suck at playing it. < 1317597632 293261 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably suck at most games < 1317597647 348333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite good at RPGs. < 1317597709 198587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the type with lots of complexity, I find that easy enough to learn. < 1317597726 867198 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you good at flipperless pinball game? < 1317597755 341180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... probably not. I find arcade games boring < 1317597787 635105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently I only played RPG and sandbox. < 1317597795 297600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the genres I really enjoy < 1317597869 384874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like text adventure game? < 1317597875 358228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Dungeons&Dragons game? < 1317597878 343044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like chess game? < 1317597880 65373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 3D graphics, high end 3D graphics even. Above Crysis level preferred. < 1317597888 305394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do like NWN. Graphics are dated. < 1317597896 30039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, I have some nostalgia for NWN < 1317597909 314289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess: meh < 1317597923 969224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: recently I only played AAA titles really. < 1317597956 881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, some indie too. Bastion. humble bundle < 1317598006 612257 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1317598060 31466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flipperless pinball game is the only pinball games I am good at; I am one of the best players at flipperless pinball. < 1317598061 606134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317598091 295982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: titles I played recently and enjoyed (not all are new): Witcher 2, Oblivion, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dead Island, Terraria, GTA IV (had technical problems with this one though, lag spikes), Minecraft, Bastion, Trine. < 1317598121 33456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there, now you know what type of game I like. I don't care at all for arcade. < 1317598138 561005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you will notice, they are either RPG, or sandbox, or both < 1317598218 632687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay Trine stands out as a puzzle game with RPG elements. < 1317598260 767185 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a game with a story, try text adventure games. Role playing games (I don't mean computer "RPG" games) are also often story based and text adventure games are probably the closest thing you can get on a computer, even though real role playing games are of an entirely different kind. There are a nearly unlimited different possible situations. < 1317598268 472857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I want graphics too < 1317598294 733849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played nethack recently, not since I got this computer during the summer. < 1317598296 622999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, the PlayStation 3 has a very powerful graphics. < 1317598314 239449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I prefer PC games. Since I don't own a PlayStation 3, nor any other console < 1317598319 384166 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, that is what I have heard. (I don't own a PlayStation 3) < 1317598327 931058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a very powerful PC < 1317598388 549502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the modern "PC games" require an operating system, so they are not truly deserved to simply be called PC games. < 1317598406 160920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, my main point here was not asking for game tips, but to point out I'm not really interested in pinball games, or text adventure (I find it hard to visualize which direction I should walk in to get to some other place, very annoying) < 1317598493 120038 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317598567 523245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where do you go to get killed from being drug tested? < 1317598586 404575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think he meant helping testing new drugs < 1317598587 139745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1317598589 486228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't know. < 1317598606 784921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway I have both windows and linux, so I can play pretty much ever game that is designed to run on a common OS on a PC. Because Mac-exclusive games are pretty much unheard of, unless it is for iphone/ipad/ipod touch < 1317598627 784918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh right. < 1317598628 296346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it isn't PC anyway < 1317598637 692481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but to me, "PC game" means one that does not require an operating system at all and only requires the PC BIOS. < 1317598657 732965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, that is pretty much you only. To most people it means windows games. < 1317598686 797499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: besides my PC doesn't have a BIOS. It is EFI based. Sure there is BIOS emulation < 1317598691 549703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not a BIOS < 1317598739 184543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so I think a PC game in your sense would have to include ones that only use EFI and not the BIOS emulation of such exists < 1317598749 584842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else would be illogical < 1317598756 430074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: don't you agree? < 1317598797 830809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well? < 1317598805 340669 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no. The reason has to do with the way the PC was designed; it is the IBM compatible design, generally. But I can understand your point. < 1317598819 583687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: PC just means personal computer < 1317598838 399071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so that means a PPC Mac running openfirmware would qualify too < 1317598850 587716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you want "IBM PC game" specifically < 1317598860 946092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that is what you will use in the future. < 1317598898 964144 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just think PC means personal computer, then you can even count Macintosh, and anything else someone makes too. Which makes "PC game" a meaningless term. < 1317598912 344071 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, I suppose "IBM PC game" is a more accurate for what I meant. < 1317598940 198604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: PC does stand for personal computer. Look it up < 1317598949 448928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know that. < 1317598987 404921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, a phone is a type of personal computer: It is a low end computer, you seldom share it between multiple users. < 1317599033 799526 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you mean cellular phone. < 1317599041 181142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317599057 309276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though most phones these days contain computers < 1317599083 726064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wireless landline phones. Or landline phones with answering machines and a display. < 1317599094 300870 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. But the landline telephones do not run as many programs and are often shared. < 1317599099 423167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1317599200 155056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question of what "PC" _should_ mean is probably nearly irrelevant to what its usual meaning is. < 1317599209 495388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, what MOST people mean with PC games is games running under windows, or sometimes windows/linux/macosx < 1317599225 950456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1317599244 675501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: still, barebone IBM PC game is NOT what most people mean with PC game < 1317599247 928218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just another word affected by language change < 1317599251 887687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the key point in this discussion < 1317599255 908583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: semantics < 1317599268 216635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I forgot, what did ITT stand for < 1317599276 836042 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically in this thread. < 1317599278 113480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again, i canno... i'm with Vorpal < 1317599287 279945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on IRC I suppose it would mean in this topic. < 1317599294 368170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as IRC isn't thread-based. < 1317599297 995326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: canno? what? < 1317599313 571543 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make some sort of thread-based live chat < 1317599325 851376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i am simulating an interrupted phrase here < 1317599342 281152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't really make much sense over IRC due to line ending < 1317599344 11405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing* < 1317599366 938645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i even added the canno part after i saw your message :P < 1317599374 225667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1317599395 997043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it makes plenty of sense ;) < 1317599427 145725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the key point above was that when I said PC game zzo38 interpreted it as games running without OS just making use of BIOS functions. Which is a very weird definition of PC game. < 1317599434 217872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to be almost entirely transfering from D and ) to P in emoticons these days < 1317599466 869298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is probably a deeper meaning to that, but I'm too lazy to figure it out < 1317599492 404536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that"? < 1317599503 399404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that = "the transferring" < 1317599513 843479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume i picked it up from this channel < 1317599536 287794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no I think it is because you are becoming older and more cynical < 1317599549 847678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, then i would use | or / < 1317599551 498935 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o~o < 1317599560 976729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o~o < 1317599564 870745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which still happens < 1317599575 334200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1317599583 563637 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1317599585 619927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one of those < 1317599592 293241 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate when people say "PC game" and really mean "windows-only game" < 1317599592 618825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: two buoys with a wave in between? < 1317599612 52042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: actually I mean "game I can play on my dual booting PC" < 1317599613 930124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317599621 548297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes everything but mac basically < 1317599627 899387 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term is just so generic < 1317599637 206793 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"game that you play on a computer designed for personal use" < 1317599641 163902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay not freebsd games. But well, come on, are there freebsd exclusive titles? < 1317599655 476740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: as opposed to mainframe games, yeah < 1317599663 133863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cluster games < 1317599663 862167 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there even mainframe games? < 1317599670 634165 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from things like that tetris game on sdf < 1317599672 486618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game is so PC, no bloodshed or swearing at all < 1317599672 855943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1317599679 849091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: sdf? < 1317599686 29543 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://sdf.org :p < 1317599688 229298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: augh < 1317599700 844716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: too new firefox < 1317599703 127588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do it < 1317599707 272863 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;~; < 1317599707 807747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could try lynx < 1317599721 955212 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pulls up public proxy from floodgap
< 1317599728 783360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: two fishing hooks with a wave between? < 1317599732 200833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird smiley that < 1317599735 949936 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?a=sdf.org < 1317599763 749033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, when was that last updated < 1317599772 744964 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea :p < 1317599774 86758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like the early 90s < 1317599784 574130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: anyway, that is a unix system, not a mainframe. < 1317599787 68135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it means tiffany is a crab < 1317599794 100625 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :robot crab < 1317599797 254316 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.-. < 1317599800 52073 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1317599808 209836 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't mainframes extinct? < 1317599810 911674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainframe is typically not a unix system, but something like an IBM mainframe. < 1317599818 907690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: IBM zSeries still exist < 1317599826 250576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they are pretty much extinct. < 1317599835 976001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: things like banks and such still buy them < 1317599838 133334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about it < 1317599839 449147 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1317599878 343176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is "IBM System z" now < 1317599885 767397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was zSeries a few years ago < 1317599985 511236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also hate when people say "PC game" and really mean "windows-only game"