00:00:00 that's 00:00:02 overlappung 00:00:08 um 00:00:09 overlapungent 00:00:15 *a wrapped [[a]] instance 00:00:26 dude 00:00:26 overlapungent 00:02:25 oerjan: what do you know about extensible exceptions :P 00:02:27 i.e. Control.Exception 00:02:45 well what i've read from the module documentation 00:03:15 if I do (catch m (\(x::SomeException) -> ...)), will that catch all exceptions? 00:03:18 or is that unsufficient 00:03:22 yes 00:03:24 s/unsufficient/insufficient/ 00:03:25 thanks 00:03:30 you just define an instance for your type, and unless you want to simulate the subtyping stuff, all methods are defaults 00:03:47 :t fmap return 00:03:48 forall a (m :: * -> *) (f :: * -> *). (Monad m, Functor f) => f a -> f (m a) 00:04:13 and everything is a subtype of SomeException, because the main method is defined in terms of that. 00:04:28 right 00:08:26 @so !haskell (\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))"@so !haskell (\\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))""--"-- 00:08:27 !haskell (\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))"@so !haskell (\\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))""--"-- not available 00:08:31 ​@so !haskell (\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))"@so !haskell (\\s t->putStrLn(s ++ show s ++ show t ++ t))""--"-- 00:08:44 Couldn't match expected type `Stream m0 (Stream (Iter m0 i0) o0)' 00:08:44 with actual type `Iter (Iter m0 i0) i1 o0' 00:08:44 augh 00:08:55 micahjohnston: Dude, I botlooped lambdabot and EgoBot ages ago. 00:08:59 Don't do it again, it'll just be annoying. 00:09:01 ok 00:09:02 D: 00:09:02 `pastelogs not available 00:09:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14303 00:09:12 EgoBot prevents it anyway. 00:09:21 once I had another bot in the middle 00:09:27 I can't find that one though 00:09:32 2011-02-01.txt:16:25:33: 11.01.20:12:51:53 !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available 00:09:46 micahjohnston: EgoBot puts a zero-width space before the @, so... 00:09:50 oh 00:10:25 @so @so test 00:10:25 @so test not available 00:10:28 oh 00:10:45 @so test 00:10:46 test not available 00:10:59 huh so it special cases @ 00:11:02 @so ?so test 00:11:03 ?so test not available 00:11:08 but not ? 00:11:44 in any case, no bot sees its own messages unless specifically designed to do so 00:13:20 micahjohnston: also bot loops are a fine tradition, don't feel bad. it's just that all the bots present here have countermeasures. 00:13:45 (which is also a fine tradition, once the bot loops have been done.) 00:15:05 no it's not, botloop prevention is a recent invention 00:15:06 (rhymes) 00:20:42 oerjan: ok, heh 00:26:20 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:48:41 oerjan: what's infixr four 00:49:04 > (0$0 *>) 00:49:05 The operator `Control.Applicative.*>' [infixl 4] of a section 00:49:05 must hav... 00:49:10 hm not that one 00:49:39 i recall most of the Applicative stuff is 4 00:49:55 > (0$0 <*) 00:49:57 The operator `Control.Applicative.<*' [infixl 4] of a section 00:49:57 must hav... 00:50:06 hmph 00:50:13 > (0$0 <) 00:50:14 The operator `GHC.Classes.<' [infix 4] of a section 00:50:14 must have lower pr... 00:50:55 but what would be an Applicative operator which nests most usefully rightwards... 00:51:06 > (0$0 <|>) 00:51:07 The operator `Control.Applicative.<|>' [infixl 3] of a section 00:51:07 must ha... 00:51:47 > (0$0 <**>) 00:51:48 The operator `Control.Applicative.<**>' [infixl 4] of a section 00:51:49 must h... 00:51:54 not even that one 00:52:16 :t (<**>) 00:52:17 forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b 00:52:35 and it's the one which actually is mirrored in a sense 00:53:37 but then, i suspect the fixities for those are not very well thought out - things starting with < having the same fixity level as <, that's like ocaml not haskell 00:54:01 i mean, they did not even give *> the same fixity as >> 00:54:14 < having the same fixity as < 00:54:17 who'da thunk it 00:54:29 elliott: reading comprehension, elliott 00:54:51 oh 00:54:53 it's the "starting with" part. ocaml actually _enforces_ that. 00:55:02 haha, really? 00:55:05 what 00:55:06 like... 00:55:10 that's 00:55:14 so weird 00:55:23 yes, operator precedence in ocaml is determined by first character 00:55:29 so 00:55:30 weird 00:55:33 ocaml... 00:56:01 otoh it means you can actually remember the precedences :P 00:56:29 oerjan: i think im breaking monoid laws by mistake oops :( 00:56:41 what did you do :( 00:56:44 or 00:56:46 not monoid laws 00:56:46 monad laws 00:56:50 monoid laws are hard to break :P 00:56:59 well not _that_ hard :P 00:57:20 hard to break accidentally? 00:57:30 maybe. 00:58:21 has anyone ever dead 00:58:23 anyway, i don't seem to recall anything with infixr 4. maybe i should actually look somewhere :P 00:58:31 can hayoo search by fixity :D 00:59:07 why do you want an infixr 4 operator anyway :P 00:59:16 to know if i should make this operator that :D 00:59:41 hm haddock doesn't give fixities 01:00:27 ok Control.Applicative only has infixl 3 and 4 01:00:34 ++ is infixr 5. that's pretty close. 01:00:48 lol 01:01:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:14 yes 5 is very infixr 01:01:49 i think some things would have fit better together if they'd made each fixity level a unique associativity 01:02:00 `addquote yes 5 is very infixr 01:02:01 <+> is infixr 5, *** and &&& are infixr 3 01:02:01 677) yes 5 is very infixr 01:02:12 but where is the infixr 4 01:03:23 the report has only infix 4, since they're all testing operators 01:03:59 the only thing that could make more sense would be python's chaining 01:04:59 ok that's Prelude only. 01:05:02 http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch4.html#x10-820061 01:05:18 in fact the only variation within a level is between !! and . 01:05:37 (!!'s fixity is also the default one without a declaration) 01:06:04 but then it leaves out =<< 01:06:13 =<< is infixr 1 i think 01:06:55 yes, it's the main operator i recall which usefully has the opposite associativity but still the same level 01:07:03 (as >>=) 01:07:24 > (0$0 <$>) 01:07:25 The operator `Data.Functor.<$>' [infixl 4] of a section 01:07:25 must have lowe... 01:07:51 hm... 01:07:55 > (0$0 >=>) 01:07:56 The operator `Control.Monad.>=>' [infixr 1] of a section 01:07:57 must have low... 01:08:01 > (0$0 >>>) 01:08:02 The operator `Control.Category.>>>' [infixr 1] of a section 01:08:02 must have ... 01:08:51 elliott: the thing is, it does not really make sense to define new non-testing operators as level 4, and i consider the Applicatives there a mistake. 01:09:15 they should have been lower, similarly to the monadic ones 01:09:30 oerjan: fair enough, I'm trying to give a fixity to a piping operator 01:09:41 elliott: well >>> and >=> are 1 01:09:47 as is >>= 01:09:58 and those are all piping operators in a sense 01:10:21 > (0$0 <<<) 01:10:22 The operator `Control.Category.<<<' [infixr 1] of a section 01:10:22 must have ... 01:10:59 oerjan: it's also similar to (.) in a sense though 01:11:27 ok but . is special it's almost syntax 01:11:32 like $ 01:13:59 hey i found an infixr 4 operator 01:14:15 crazy 01:14:19 it must feel so lonley 01:15:01 elliott: in any case, every "piping" operator i can find in Control.Arrow, Control.Category or Control.Monad is level 1, mostly infixr 01:15:12 monqy: what operator 01:15:17 oerjan: right 01:15:42 .| in iterio....its even called a pipe operator...but you probably already knew all of this...it may even be the reason why you want infixr 4.... 01:16:43 oh right elliott was using that package, i saw in the logs 01:18:59 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:19:44 there should be some guidelines for fixities (rule 1: never use infixl or infix 0) 01:20:18 parsec's uses infix 0 i think 01:20:24 (unless cale gets his will, in which case s/infixl/infixr/ 01:20:38 monqy: infixl 0 iirc, and it is annoying 01:21:00 if it had been infixr 0 with opposite argument order, it could have been chained with $ easily 01:21:42 > (0$0 ) 01:21:43 Not in scope: `' 01:21:47 oh well 01:22:28 !haskell main = (0$0 Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.) 01:22:34 oops 01:22:46 oh it worked 01:22:48 infixl 9 01:22:55 huh 01:22:58 what parsec version is that 01:23:15 parsec 2? 01:23:55 in latest on hackage (parsec 3.1.1): 01:23:56 infix 0 01:23:56 infixr 1 <|> 01:24:00 ok 01:24:14 weird how it has its own <|> too 01:24:17 well i guess it's not really _worse_ afa $ is concerned 01:24:33 monqy: it predates Alternative I think 01:24:35 monqy: yeah prior to Alternative 01:24:52 i thought early parsec predated alternatve but new parsec didnt?? 01:25:11 except it's weird they didn't remove it when they added alternative to the instances for it... 01:25:20 or did they just add applicative? 01:25:29 dunno, maybe stuff depends on it being exported 01:25:38 and monomorphism restriction means it can't be the Alternative version 01:25:42 because that would break backwards-compat 01:25:42 (ParsecT s u m) has an Alternative instance 01:25:47 perhaps. 01:25:56 oh 01:26:20 fixity changes too 01:26:21 wait what 01:26:29 the real <|> being infixl 3 or something like that 01:26:38 monqy: i realized my test must have been wrong 01:26:56 because of old parsec or what 01:27:10 !haskell import Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec; main = (0$0 ) 01:27:10 oh it's looking in .ParserCombinators. yeah it's old 01:27:20 now it's just Text.Parsec isn't it 01:27:58 monqy: no, because it didn't get to import the operator, and so assumed for the rest of the parsing that it was infixl 9 01:28:10 oh 01:28:23 !haskell main = print "test" 01:28:28 ​"test" 01:28:53 !show haskell 01:28:53 That is not a user interpreter! 01:28:58 hm something went wrong there, i got a nonsensical error message 01:29:00 !haskell import Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec; main = (0$0 ) 01:29:11 ah finally 01:29:28 it was infix 0 01:29:56 18:30:44 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with =EgoBot 01:29:57 18:30:44 lol 01:29:57 18:30:44 -!- Irssi: Closing query with =EgoBot 01:30:05 sometimes in a blue moon EgoBot sends responses to the wrong place 01:30:06 is this your fault 01:30:09 monqy: waht 01:30:33 that was after 01:30:34 18:30:21 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with egobot 01:30:34 18:30:33 !haskell :i ++ 01:30:34 18:30:36 ​(++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] .-- Defined in GHC.Base 01:30:47 monqy: you may have hit the same bug 01:31:05 the lol was dcc chat 01:31:22 i got an error message which was obviously for someone else, while you got some ordinary response i think 01:31:48 but neither of them were supposed to be for any of us 01:31:49 what's ordinary about lol and why would egobot ever send it 01:31:53 hehehe 01:32:03 monqy: if someone tried a command !echo lol, say 01:32:11 ah 01:32:20 now I'm wondering how this could have happened 01:32:36 maybe it's just too many people experimenting with EgoBot simultaneously 01:33:06 or too much load, istr it happens more often if you give it something with a lot of output or the like 01:33:53 i assume EgoBot is doing responses in parallel, but its code to match responses to questioners has some race condition 01:34:07 is my guess. 01:34:09 Gregor: ^ 01:34:53 or perhaps things get saved away wrongly and get sent later 01:35:31 I gave egobot another request (!haskell :i Text.Parsec.) and am not getting a response :'( 01:35:52 I wonder who's getting it 01:37:25 huh 01:37:34 !haskell :i Text.Parsec. 01:37:54 no response there either 01:37:56 !echo hi 01:37:56 hi 01:38:00 !haskell :i ++ 01:38:03 ​(++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] .-- Defined in GHC.Base 01:38:14 monqy: perhaps :i just fails silently 01:38:29 18:39:23 infixr 5 ++ 01:38:30 18:39:23 01:38:32 thanks egobot 01:38:41 !haskell :i Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec. 01:38:43 ​(Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim.) :: 01:38:52 oh right it's old parsec not new parsec 01:38:55 yeah 01:39:06 got the rest in DCC 01:39:13 blank line and all? 01:39:29 um i closed the window again 01:39:32 I wonder who got the infixr/blankline from my first ++ request when I got lol 01:39:48 afaict it was the rest of my own response 01:43:08 -!- augur has joined. 01:55:24 monqy: probably a ghost :')] 01:55:25 monqy: probably a ghost :') 02:04:42 https://github.com/ghc/ghc/commit/3db757241ce7fb99c096c30481aefa86bb9855a1 02:04:46 how not to do commits 02:05:12 Deewiant: You may enjoy the above 02:09:45 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:14:09 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 02:16:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:17 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:26:39 -!- augur has joined. 02:30:01 oerjan: rank n types :( 02:30:22 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa 02:30:34 just setting the mood here 02:30:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:31:04 -!- augur has joined. 02:31:38 :t runST . forever 02:31:39 Couldn't match expected type `forall s. ST s a' 02:31:39 against inferred type `m b' 02:31:39 Expected type: m a1 -> forall s. ST s a 02:31:49 *MWAHAHAHACKACKACK* 02:32:39 what did you do :( 02:32:44 :t (.) runST 02:32:45 forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f (forall s. ST s a) -> f a 02:33:16 caleskell 02:33:21 monqy: merely demonstrating the evil of rank n types 02:33:27 monqy: ok that's accidental 02:34:23 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:34:39 :t runST . (forever :: forall s. ST s a -> forall s. ST s b) 02:34:40 Not in scope: type variable `a' 02:34:40 Not in scope: type variable `b' 02:34:46 oerjan: it upsets me a lot that rank-two types prevent point-free :'( 02:34:48 oops 02:35:05 elliott: yeah 02:35:10 oerjan: it makes me... 02:35:11 sad 02:35:28 :t runST . (forever :: forall s. ST s Int -> forall s. ST s Float) 02:35:29 Couldn't match expected type `s1' against inferred type `s' 02:35:29 `s1' is a rigid type variable bound by 02:35:29 the polymorphic type `forall s1. ST s1 Float' at :1:9 02:35:42 :'( 02:35:45 sad stuff 02:36:15 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:36:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:38:11 :t (forever :: forall s. ST s Int -> forall s. ST s Float) 02:38:12 Couldn't match expected type `s1' against inferred type `s' 02:38:12 `s1' is a rigid type variable bound by 02:38:12 the polymorphic type `forall s1. ST s1 Float' at :1:1 02:39:45 :t let forever :: forall s. ST s a -> forall s. ST s b; forever x = x >> forever x in runST . forever 02:39:46 Not in scope: type variable `a' 02:39:46 Not in scope: type variable `b' 02:40:01 oh hm 02:40:09 :t let forever :: forall a b. forall s. ST s a -> forall s. ST s b; forever x = x >> forever x in runST . forever 02:40:10 Couldn't match expected type `s1' against inferred type `s' 02:40:10 `s1' is a rigid type variable bound by 02:40:10 the type signature for `forever' at :1:54 02:40:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:40:42 :t let forever :: forall a b. (forall s. ST s a) -> (forall s. ST s b); forever x = x >> forever x in runST . forever 02:40:43 forall a a1. (forall s. ST s a1) -> a 02:40:47 YES 02:43:14 a bit of a shallow victory 02:46:31 OMG you guys 02:46:34 Liver paste is SO GOOD 02:46:35 SO 02:46:36 DAMNED 02:46:37 GOOD 02:46:49 liver 02:46:49 paste 02:46:53 also hi 02:46:55 I will be the only person in history to make himself fat off liver paste. 02:46:59 The fuck. I seem to have spontaneously developed the ability to sing in falsetto without sounding like I'm going to murder eardrums. 02:47:16 (note: probably not any good. Just not a crime against humanity now.) 02:48:07 So, now I can sing above middle C. Whoo. 02:48:59 And probably kill people doing it. 02:49:04 Rather than definitely. 02:49:47 Gregor: NO WAI, ULL BE SECOND 02:50:16 food -> 02:51:09 I can sing /below/ middle C! :P 02:51:49 My normal singing range roughly corresponds to the bass clef. 02:54:46 Juries have to be uninterested third parties. So, if a person using Future Technology™ beams a live image of themselves brutally murdering someone into the minds of every living human being, then they cannot be convicted. 02:55:31 Keep in mind that we have the GOP here. 02:55:56 That person would probably just be classified as an enemy combatant and find themselves in Miniluv. 02:56:38 Can they be classified as an enemy combatant if they're a US citizen? I suppose so *shrugs* 02:56:43 Yes. 02:56:56 The President can also order a direct assassination of you. 02:56:59 * oerjan haz liver/BACON paste 02:57:21 In short, the legal system is 120% fucked. 02:57:30 oerjan: ... wow. 02:57:33 oerjan: That ... wow. 02:57:56 (precedent for the assassination thing: Obama did it.) 02:57:56 *MWAHAHAHA* 02:58:04 (yeah, not even Bush) 02:59:39 Gregor: incidentally there's a possible related conundrum here for the norwegian courts - one of the buildings damaged by the recent terrorist attack was the norwegian supreme court building... 03:00:16 hm i guess that's judges, not juries. but still, they're supposed to excuse themselves if personally involved. 03:01:06 oerjan: And presumably there's no precedent for bringing in judges who haven't been elected (?) to the supreme court? 03:01:10 So, bork :) 03:02:00 Potential hack: appeal to the International Criminal Court. 03:02:01 Gregor: actually there is, the government is supposed to appoint some. it's just that a lot of the government's buildings were _also_ damaged. 03:02:34 so the government should excuse themselves from making that appointment... 03:02:49 *government ministers 03:04:23 Well. I don't think the terrorist attack would count as a war crime, so the ICC wouldn't have jurisdiction. 03:04:47 oerjan: Bork bork! 03:05:09 for the time being, the terrorist appears to be trying to argue that he should be tried in military court - because he's at war with the labor party. 03:05:32 ... ... ... lolwut. 03:06:32 Gregor: his lawyer has frequently pointed out that he does not see things very similarly to anyone else. including his lawyer. 03:07:03 If that works, then the ICC would have jurisdiction, and so he could be tried there instead of in Norway's courts. 03:07:21 * elliott considers reading all that 03:07:28 elliott: Don't. 03:07:29 we're supposed to try him ourselves if we can, though :P 03:07:46 oerjan: Yes, but if he gets to your supreme court, then it seems you couldn't try him. 03:07:51 oerjan: So, the ICC would have to. 03:08:04 Gregor: why not 03:08:06 Unless it's not a war crime, in which case fuck. 03:08:22 pikhq: they'll probably find some way to get some judges appointed, hopefully. 03:08:55 -!- invariable has changed nick to variable. 03:10:30 :t let forever :: forall a b. (forall s. ST s a) -> (forall s. ST s b); forever x = x >> forever x in runST . forever 03:10:30 forall a a1. (forall s. ST s a1) -> a 03:10:31 lol 03:10:40 oerjan: "it only breaks polymorphism" 03:10:46 as opposed to "it only breaks beta reduction" 03:11:09 Juries have to be uninterested third parties. So, if a person using Future Technology™ beams a live image of themselves brutally murdering someone into the minds of every living human being, then they cannot be convicted. 03:11:12 Is that actually a crime? 03:11:20 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:11:26 :t forever :: forall a b. (forall s. ST s a) -> (forall s. ST s b) 03:11:27 Couldn't match expected type `forall s. ST s a' 03:11:27 against inferred type `m a1' 03:11:28 In the expression: 03:11:33 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?hp 03:11:36 unbelieveable 03:11:41 Gregor: btw I don't think it matters if we can convict that guy :P 03:12:01 elliott: Probably true :P 03:12:03 elliott: i think the murder is supposed to be real 03:12:14 oerjan: So it's a future murder? 03:12:36 elliott: erm there's no time travel involved. 03:12:39 Can you convict people for crimes they'll do in the future, even if they're not planning them at all now? [I presume Minority Report had some kind of theme music in it, so assume it's being played now] 03:12:45 oerjan: Then how is there anyone left to do the convicting 03:13:00 But it's like my hypothetical situation where a government declares its official language to be as described by some institution, and then that institution proceeds to subtly modify the language to coup. 03:13:08 elliott: you still need to work on your reading comprehension 03:13:21 Oh, brutally murdering /someone/, okay 03:13:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:13:34 I thought it was an image of them brutally murdering you for every you :P 03:13:49 lol 03:13:53 Gregor: You would be good at nomic, but you're bad at real-world political loopholes :P 03:14:06 elliott: But unless he actually murders every you, that's arguably not even illegal. 03:14:19 In nomic, people can't just resort to killing someone illegally if you fuck with them too much :P 03:14:30 (Or can they? TODO: Murder an Agora player who pisses me off.) 03:14:34 Gregor: That's what I said :P 03:14:42 SO'D YOUR MOM 03:14:52 True 03:15:32 elliott: i'm pretty sure your version would at least count as harassment 03:16:59 xD 03:17:06 elliott: You need mens rea and actus reus to convict; with the act having never occured, actus reus couldn't exist, and mens rea might not either. 03:17:07 At least :P 03:31:24 -!- azaq231 has joined. 03:33:54 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:50:11 Ein monade er som ei lefse. 03:52:57 wat 03:53:08 (kmc: une monade est comme une crêpe. una mónada es como un burrito. eine Monade ist wie ein Strudel) 03:53:48 oerjan: Senatus populusque romanus? 03:56:10 Following with the actual statements: モナッドは巻き寿司のようです。 03:56:18 argh unicode 03:56:30 monaddo ha makizushi no you desu. 03:57:22 "A monad is like a makizushi" (a makizushi being the kind of sushi that's rolled, with the contents wrapped in rice & nori) 03:57:34 kmc: you are taking notes, i hope? 03:59:55 (yes haskell weekly news is out again) 04:00:25 oh hm bicentennial 04:00:59 (kmc: une monade est comme une crêpe. una mónada es como un burrito. eine Monade ist wie ein Strudel) 04:01:02 or wait it's not -enni- if there are no actual _years_ counted, is it 04:01:02 waht is going on.............. 04:01:08 oh haskell weekly news 04:01:12 that oerjan...still reads... 04:01:56 i seem to have increased my regular haskell web sites lately 04:02:26 it started with r/haskell and grew from there 04:03:12 i thought hwn was something you had received in email for years or whatever 04:03:17 or at least i remember you saying that 04:03:22 you said it about agora's backup lists at leaest :P 04:03:23 least 04:03:44 elliott: also that crêpe version started on haskell-cafe, i believe, in the comments about the french translation of learn you a haskell 04:03:55 so kmc obviously has expanded it 04:04:05 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:04:18 wat 04:04:40 -!- elliott has joined. 04:04:47 i was about to explain how i don't actually subscribe to any haskell mailing lists, and i don't think i ever have 04:05:13 i _do_ however tend to gravitate towards the haskell-cafe web archive if not careful. 04:06:30 i don't like to read hwn on that, though, all the links are made into footnotes with url shortening 04:07:11 i should probably subscribe to haskell-cafe 04:08:43 so kmc obviously has expanded it 04:08:52 was the last i said before you quit 04:09:37 saw it 04:09:40 (in backlog) 04:14:32 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 04:21:58 :t mfilter 04:21:59 Not in scope: `mfilter' 04:22:11 @hoogle mfilter 04:22:11 No results found 04:23:24 too new apparently 04:23:25 ?hoogle filterM 04:23:25 Control.Monad filterM :: Monad m => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] 04:23:25 Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad graphFilterM :: GraphM m gr => (Context a b -> Bool) -> GT m (gr a b) [Context a b] 04:23:36 elliott: no, it actually is mfilter 04:23:49 http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/latest/doc/html/Control-Monad.html#v:mfilter 04:24:06 saw it mentioned on stackexchange 04:25:51 stackexchange or overflow 04:26:04 er damn 04:26:15 overflow 04:26:43 short term memory failed between checking and typing :P 04:29:41 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:31:50 > 27^3 04:31:51 19683 04:32:28 > 27^2 04:32:29 729 04:32:54 that's not bad at all for number of 3-gram hash table entries. 04:34:48 what 04:35:08 what 04:35:25 what is the context 04:35:32 and what are you trying to do 04:35:36 remember like a month ago I was going to improve the acronym generator? 04:35:45 well I've begun doing so finally. 04:36:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:36:15 if you're going to base it on words 04:36:19 then it will just generate words 04:36:24 do you have a database of acronyms 04:36:28 these 3-grams are of the character variety. 04:36:37 basically it's a word generator more than an acronym generator. 04:36:54 yes 04:37:00 so it will be bad at generating acronyms 04:37:16 it will generate sequences of characters that are likely to be pronounceable 04:37:20 thus not a bad acronym generator. 04:37:36 though perhaps a bad word generator 04:37:40 as I doubt it will have perfect results. 04:41:14 I wonder what would happen if I also organized the data by character position. 04:41:42 so it stores the frequency of this character occuring after these two characters at this specific position. 04:41:57 something to consider afterwards, just out of curiosity. 04:43:54 :t random 04:43:55 forall g a. (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g) 04:43:59 ?hoogle Random 04:43:59 module System.Random 04:43:59 System.Random class Random a 04:43:59 package random 04:45:47 -!- evincar has joined. 04:45:54 fat free ranch dressing tastes like poop. 04:46:10 Cool, now I know what poop tastes like without the trouble of trying it. 04:46:23 where are the lipids? :( my tongue wants lipids. 04:48:21 Your tongue is lying to you. 04:48:52 -!- variable has joined. 04:48:55 my tongue has no notion of truth so if it's lying I can't really blame it. 04:51:34 True. 04:51:42 Is my favourite Boolean value. 04:54:06 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:56:49 hi 04:59:13 Hi monqy. How art thou to-day? 05:06:41 tired 05:06:45 -!- iamcal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:07:23 Rest. 05:07:33 no 05:09:27 evincar: I approve of thy archaicism. 05:10:13 I recently decided to eschew "rendering" in favour of "rendition" in my computer graphics vocabulary. 05:11:25 thanks 05:12:57 Gregor: What's the biggest file EgoBot will download as an interpreter 05:13:31 CakeProphet: are you fixing wacro? good. 05:13:43 more like replacing it with something completely different. 05:13:50 goodl 05:13:52 . 05:14:56 I can only work on it in spare moments, which aren't many these days. 05:17:26 Hey CakeProphet 05:17:27 `macro 05:17:27 `macro 05:17:28 `macro 05:17:28 `macro 05:17:28 `macro 05:17:36 BTU 05:17:36 GLIDING 05:17:37 VLASIC'S 05:17:37 DEPOTS 05:17:38 HOEDOWNS 05:17:57 amazing 05:18:48 `macro 05:18:49 `macro 05:18:49 `macro 05:18:49 `macro 05:18:54 WUSSES 05:18:55 OFTEST 05:18:56 EAVESDROPPING 05:18:56 SB'S 05:19:11 CakeProphet: You no longer need to devote any effort 05:20:37 A naked girl demands a backrub. Life is hard. 05:20:41 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: :D). 05:21:09 hard lifes hard times 05:21:13 can that guy get any more obnoxious 05:21:17 let's discuss my perfect acronym generator instead 05:21:19 CakeProphet: it uses N-GRAMS. 05:22:20 wow such rudeness in this non-response 05:22:22 monqy: wow 05:22:52 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:22:57 wow. 05:22:59 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:23:02 wow 05:23:10 elliott: I'm pretty sure that is not an acronym generator 05:23:22 CakeProphet: It's a word generator. 05:23:23 `macro 05:23:27 It does exactly what you were going to write. :p 05:23:27 KHORANA'S 05:23:31 looks good to me 05:23:32 elliott: no. 05:23:34 `macro 05:23:39 YPSILANTI'S 05:23:41 yyyyyyyyyyyep 05:23:54 CakeProphet: How does it differ from what you were going to write? and do you think it differs based on evidence or are you just sure that your approach would produce better results 05:24:11 elliott: no because you've somehow completely understood what I meant by "3-grams of characters" 05:24:23 I have? 05:24:26 *misunderstood 05:24:27 >_> 05:24:29 a billion grams 05:24:29 How do you know I have? 05:24:40 highest quality wacronyms, macronyms 05:24:53 oh... hmmm 05:25:07 it seems to be very likely to generate actual existing words. 05:25:11 which is not what I would expect. 05:25:41 Yes, that's a known deficiency which I'm correcting now. 05:25:53 The code has all the infrastructure for it, it just hasn't been written yet. 05:25:59 `macro 05:26:03 NKRUMAH'S 05:26:07 uh, it looks to me like you're just randomly selecting entries 05:26:09 er, maybe not. 05:26:20 I'm not. It just statistically ends up like that often. 05:26:24 Which, like I said, correcting now. 05:26:45 also, you're an asshole. Why can't you just let me have fun? 05:26:55 Are you calling me an asshole for writing a program? 05:27:20 specifically writing one that I am writing. It's kind of rude. 05:27:32 You have a really weird idea of rude. 05:27:37 like "oh hey I can spit this out instantly why are you taking so long?" 05:27:55 i find your idea of rude quite offensive 05:28:01 Do you have issues or something? I saw something mentioned that sounded interesting and hacked up a Haskell progra. 05:28:03 program. 05:28:18 is there meant to be a moratorium on coding things you're coding, because I think you need a patent for that?? 05:28:31 n-grams (c) cakeprophet 05:28:31 that n-gram stuff came up waaay before today anyway 05:28:35 DO NOT STEAL 05:28:44 that's not what I mean. 05:30:03 what do you mean 05:31:13 I'm not going to be able to describe it in a way you find suitable. You will find issues with my reasoning. 05:31:44 its like if i said i want to make a cake and then you made a better cake than me before i made my cake....and then laughed....and laughec......ad na laughed............ 05:31:45 possibly because... your reasoning is flawed? 05:32:03 basically it spoils the fun. now I feel like I'm wasting my time. 05:32:18 what 05:32:23 how does it spoil the fun 05:32:33 see... I'm wasting my time right now 05:32:36 trying to explain this concept to you. 05:32:40 CakeProphet: so what was I meant to do 05:32:41 like 05:32:44 other people have done n-grams. it's not like you're the first or anything. 05:32:48 oh this sounds interesting i am going to open emacs and ghci and... 05:32:49 fuck 05:32:50 no 05:32:50 can't do that 05:32:53 closing 05:33:01 because that would make me feel pretty lame too 05:33:05 I should probably give up while I'm ahead and get some sleep. especially considering I've only had one hour of that for this day. 05:34:59 elliott: I'm pretty sure if it were just something that you simply found interesting you wouldn't have presented it to me in the way you did. 05:35:33 i have never found your predictions of me particularly accurate 05:35:52 but ok i didn't realise you took n-grams so seriously 05:36:11 ...despite the fact I talked about implementing n-grams for like days late last month 05:36:43 this is simply my perspective, based on the way you presented it. It seemed to be mocking. Is that an unreasonable inference? 05:36:58 yep 05:38:21 whatever you're still an asshole either way. good night. 05:38:27 good night cakeprophet 05:40:16 cannot defend position →→→ call opopnent asshole 05:40:27 calling me an asshole is like the oldest trick in the book... it's in Genesis 05:40:44 genesasshole 05:40:45 your'e also a nazi. bets thats not in genesis. 05:40:46 genashole 05:41:14 monqy: SHT,U UP JEW 05:41:19 ;_; 05:41:27 * elliott OPPRESSES U FOUR CALLING ME NAZI 05:41:36 im opresed 05:41:41 im putting you in jail cell and making you listen to white noise... ON REPEAT ! ! ! 05:41:43 HARD FUCKER 05:41:48 \\\\\\\\\///////// 05:42:17 ;_; ;_: ;_; ;_-------_____:;; 05:42:39 ;) ; ) 05:42:47 yeAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh NAZI RIDE PURE FOREVER 05:42:57 >~) >~) >~ ) 05:43:12 * elliott runs, leaves trail of magic 05:43:16 (the magic is not magic ) 05:44:18 nazi misino: 05:44:20 - destroy all frendship 05:44:22 - make unhappy forever 05:44:32 - no cute aminals!!!!!!!!!!!!&^ 05:44:40 - n grams 05:44:56 - theft 05:45:02 >: - ) 05:45:09 (: - < 05:45:16 haha that lok like a sad smiley 05:45:17 with hat 05:45:19 bu no 05:45:20 is not 05:45:24 is nazi smiley 05:45:25 nazimleyl 05:45:31 - asshole 05:45:37 - FUCK YOU 05:45:46 "wow " 05:46:14 thissss ins the genesis... of burning people w/ are not nazis ;) ; ) : >: - ) 05:47:04 monqy: sory if i hurt youre feelings, 05:47:14 THEY ARE DEAD 05:47:18 that is how hurt they are 05:47:18 rip 05:47:19 rip rip rip 05:47:19 you 05:47:20 killed 05:47:21 them 05:47:23 ;_; 05:47:29 I CANNOT DEAL WIT HTHE UGILT ITS HARASEMNT 05:47:33 auuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUGH 05:47:44 * elliott burns, explodes, booms into fire, becomes kitten, kitten lives a tohusand years, becomes angel kitten, angel dies 05:47:52 rip 05:47:55 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv 05:48:48 WELCOME, 05:48:51 TO, 05:48:52 THE, 05:48:52 NEXT, 05:48:53 LEVEL, 05:48:59 naziland castle 05:49:03 ~~~title: "" -- yes that 05:49:05 naziland castle 05:49:09 ENTER CASTLE 05:49:13 (you are now in the castle) 05:49:15 (state command) 05:49:17 > 05:49:25 hurt feelings 05:49:31 everey feelings 05:49:45 YOUR HURT FEELINGS8!8!8!8!8!8!8! at this rate you will be a BAD NAZI ASS in only FIVE YEARS +motivational seminars! 05:49:48 state commande, 05:49:48 > 05:50:23 STATE 05:50:24 COMAMNDE, 05:50:25 make more feeligns so i canm hurt them 05:50:25 > 05:50:29 then hurt theM 05:50:47 YOU MAKE MORE FEELINGS BY BREEDING WTIH THE BREEDING FLOWER ITS AN INTENSIVE GRUESOME PROCESS THAT ELAVES YUO WITH TEN FEWER INTERNAL ORGANS AND BLOOD SPEWING OUT OF EVERY ORIFICE 05:50:52 THETEHN YOU PUNCH THEM TO DEATH SCREAMING "I DONT LIOVE YOU 05:50:54 YOU ARE MY KIDS 05:50:54 BUT 05:50:56 I DONT LIVE OE YOU 05:50:57 IVE 05:50:59 NEVER OLOVED YOU 05:51:01 AND I HATE YOU 05:51:01 " 05:51:02 they 05:51:04 are kiFILLED WITH BLOOD 05:51:11 AND AS THEY SLOWLY START TO DIE WHILE SCREAMING "DADDY I LOVE YUO" 05:51:12 YOU FEEL 05:51:13 FOR THE FIRST TIME 05:51:15 WHAT YOU THINK 05:51:18 MIGHT BE THE SLIGHTEST INKLINGS 05:51:20 OF EMOTION 05:51:22 GUILT, EVEN 05:51:24 YOU DESPISE YOURSELF FOR IT 05:51:33 YOU DESIRE ONLY TO PURGE YOURSELF OF ALL FEELING 05:51:35 AND TO BECOME A BAD NAZI ASS 05:51:36 ENTER 05:51:37 COMMAND 05:51:38 > 05:51:47 purge self of all felings 05:51:50 become bad nazi ass 05:51:57 HOW DO YUOU PROPOSE TO DO THIS????//// 05:51:58 > 05:52:05 kill self 05:52:15 YUO PUNCH YOUSELRF LIKE YOU DID YOUR CHILDREN 05:52:18 BUT IT IS NO YUOSE 05:52:20 YOU ARE ALREADY 05:52:20 TOO HARD 05:52:22 TO FAR ON THE PATH TO BECOMING A 05:52:24 BAD NAZI ASS 05:52:27 THE PUNCHES ONLY STRENGTHEN YOU 05:52:29 NEXT COMMAND 05:52:29 > 05:53:11 NEXT COMMAND 05:53:12 > 05:53:16 did i draw blood can i drink the blood 05:53:29 THEO NLY BLOOD IS ON YUORE CHILDREN 05:53:35 YOU LEAN DOWN AND SUCK UP ALL THEIR BLOOD 05:53:35 drink children blood 05:53:37 YOU THINK THAT MAYBE 05:53:38 PERHAPS 05:53:41 YOU MIGHT BECOME A 05:53:44 `` , NAZI CMVAMPIRE'' 05:53:45 BUT 05:53:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 05:53:48 YOU MUST NOT LET THAT DISTRACT YUO 05:53:53 YOU MUST FIRST BECOME A BAD NAZI ASS 05:53:58 ONLY THEN CAN YOU JOIN THE RANKS OF VAMPIRES 05:54:02 SUDDENLY 05:54:10 YOU FEEL YOUR MUSCLES EXPLODING 05:54:13 AND THEY EXPLODE INTO MUSCLE 05:54:16 did i become 05:54:20 YOU CHEW OFF THIS NEW MUSCLE 05:54:23 AND IT SPEWS LBOOD 05:54:26 WHICH YOU THEN DRINK 05:54:29 IT FEELS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD 05:54:38 YOU ARE CURRENTLY BLEEDING PROFUSELY AND ARE SLIGHTLY FURTHER ON THE PATH TO BECOMING A BAD NAZI ASS 05:54:40 INSERT COMMANDE 05:54:41 > 05:55:23 use blood to deface property 05:55:28 WHAT PROPERTY 05:55:29 > 05:55:35 all of it 05:55:48 smear blood on children, elderly, pregnant women, normal people too 05:56:04 ARE YOU 05:56:06 draw blood moustaches 05:56:06 REFERRING TO PEOPLE 05:56:07 AS PROPERTY 05:56:08 BECAUSE 05:56:09 THATS GOOD 05:56:10 I LIKE THAT 05:56:11 SHOWS INITIATIVE 05:56:19 YOU GAZE OUT 05:56:24 A SEA OF PEOPLE IS WAITING FOR YOU 05:56:34 BUT BEFORE YOU SMEAR BLOOD ON THEM 05:56:39 YOU GET THE URGE TO DECAPITATE THEM 05:56:40 surf sea of people 05:56:49 surf sea of blood 05:56:51 SO YOU STICK OUT YOUR TONGUE AND RUN HEADFIRST AT THE SEA OF PEOPLE 05:56:58 YOUR TONGUE IS SO STRONG THAT IT LOBS THEIR HEADS CLEAN OFF 05:57:06 WITHIN TEN SECONDS YOU HAVE DECAPITATED EVERY SEROJISRINGEL PERSON PRESENT 05:57:13 YOU SURF THE SEA OF BLOOD 05:57:15 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/ 05:57:17 DECISION INTERRUPT 05:57:20 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/ 05:57:28 IT TURNS OUT THAT YUO HAVE SOME ~~~drugs~~~ IN YOUR POSESPSION 05:57:34 THESE DRUGS WILL HELP YOU ON THE PATH TO BECOMEING A BAD NAZI ASS 05:57:42 DO YUO TAKE THEM???? OR ARE YOU A LAWFUL BAD ANZI ASS 05:57:44 MAKE YUORE DECISION 05:57:46 > 05:58:00 give drugs to children, ingessst children 05:58:10 yes 05:58:10 YES 05:58:16 YUO DO THAT WHILE SURFING ON THE SEAO F BLOOD 05:58:20 suddenly 05:58:37 everything 05:58:38 becomes 05:58:40 tehtiero best 05:58:42 \/\/\/\\/\/\/ 05:58:45 OOOoooooo000000-`=`-=`=`-``-` 05:58:47 ` =,` ,` ,`, =`=-, `= ,` -` 05:58:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 05:58:50 / / 05:58:54 ,z. m;l z=pd a\ ;a][ q \;e 'lg 05:58:56 poor hackego 05:58:57 o-=sd========================= 05:59:00 ABOVE IS A PICTURE 05:59:02 OF WHAT YOU SEE 05:59:06 ;) : 0 OH YEAAAH >: - ) 05:59:07 >: - ) 05:59:08 >: - ) 05:59:11 >: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )>: - )V 05:59:14 im highest 05:59:14 HARD NAZI ASS 05:59:15 hard nazi ass 05:59:16 hard 05:59:17 NAZI 05:59:17 ass 05:59:18 hard NAZI ass 05:59:20 hard nazi ASS 05:59:22 HARD nazi ass 05:59:24 HARD nazi ASS 05:59:26 HARD NAZI ASS 05:59:28 HARD NAZI ass 05:59:30 hard NAZI ASS 05:59:33 HARD NAZI ASS 05:59:36 .;, e. e/.w,f /we, /.,ew/ f/we., f/.we,f / 05:59:40 STATKJE< COMMADNJEK 05:59:42 >>>>>>>> 05:59:44 , 06:00:08 bathe in blood surf. thats a good thing right. 06:00:15 body surf 06:00:19 while bathing 06:00:20 in blood 06:00:29 yes 06:00:34 elliott what is wrong with you 06:00:35 hard nazi multitasking 06:00:36 \w/ \w/ \/w \w/ \w/\ w/\ /w\ /\w/ \w/\ /w\/ \w \o/ \o/ \m/ 06:00:36 ¦ | 06:00:36 ´¸¨ /< 06:00:47 AS YOU SURF THE SEA OF BLOOD YOU INGEST YOUR BLOOD-SOAKED CHILDREN 06:00:49 hi Madoka-Kaname 06:00:55 do you want to play 06:00:58 no 06:01:18 YUO KILL Madoka-Kaname AND THROW THE BODY INTO THE PILE OF BODIES AND CRUS HTHEM WITH A GIGANTIC CRUSHING MACHINE 06:01:25 YOUR STRENGTH INCREASES MASSIVELY 06:01:30 YOU BECOME AS TALL AS A BUILDING 06:01:32 AND RADIOACTIVE 06:01:35 AND MADE OF FUCKING WALRUSES 06:01:39 WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU FUCKING DO 06:01:39 > 06:01:41 flex nazi muscles 06:01:54 I'd rather be a character in something by Urobuchi Gen 06:01:55 YOU FLEX THEM SO HARD IT CAUSES AN EARTHQUAKE IN EVERY MAJOR CONTINENT AND AUSTRALIA 06:01:57 WHICH IS 06:02:00 ALL THE CONTINENTS 06:02:02 -!- adam__ has joined. 06:02:06 YOU SURF ON THE EARTHQUAKE 06:02:13 that's some wave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 06:02:14 > 06:02:16 enter 06:02:17 command 06:02:17 > 06:02:20 is it a wave of blood 06:02:24 make it a wave of blood 06:02:28 the only suitable wave 06:02:39 THAT WOULD REQUIRE COVERING EVERY LANDMASS ON THE PLANET WITH BLOOD 06:02:40 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:02:48 THEN DO THAT 06:02:57 WAS HOPING YOU'D SAY THAT 06:03:01 HOW DO YOU PLAN TO ACHIEVE THIS 06:03:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:03:40 monqy: ??// 06:04:09 kill people into planet 06:04:14 every 06:04:15 people? 06:04:19 every people 06:04:34 you go up to the first person on the planet 06:04:40 it is an old man he is 99.99 years and 99 seconds 06:04:44 you whisper 06:04:46 man 06:04:49 what is your name 06:04:54 while pressing your eyeballs into his neck 06:04:58 he replies 06:05:10 and the snakes from his ears and tongue surround your face and start smothering you 06:05:13 you find you cannot breathe 06:05:16 he replies 06:05:23 i am you... 06:05:30 you are suffocating what do you do 06:05:30 > 06:06:04 bite/claw/whatever-kill snakes them use them to choke the false me!!!!! 06:06:18 なにあれ 06:06:24 you attack them but it only makes them stronger 06:06:29 you briefly see a flash of light 06:06:31 as it sustains 06:06:37 one snake comes round to the front of your face 06:06:40 looks you in the eye 06:06:40 charm snakes with nazi charms 06:06:43 elliott, you are not right in the head 06:06:43 -!- adam__ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 06:06:45 and opens its mouth, its fangs showing 06:06:51 then it moves into your eyes 06:06:57 oh no my eyes 06:06:58 touches your eyeball with a scratch 06:07:04 and then plunges further with its fangs 06:07:11 you feel a sharp pain and your entire left field of vision fills with blood 06:07:12 do i have danger eyes 06:07:16 -!- Madoka-Kaname has left ("elliott has gone stark raving mad..."). 06:07:21 eventually the snake crawls all the way into your eyeball 06:07:27 and you see the same thing happen to your right eye too 06:07:37 you blink and stare at the man who replies "i am... a person..." 06:07:46 you touch his nose and he disintegrates into salt 06:07:47 are my eyes made of knives or lasers or fire or poison 06:07:49 what do you do 06:07:49 > 06:08:16 taste salt...is it realyl sa.t.... 06:08:25 yes OH YES it is the best salt... you have ever tasted 06:08:31 you could really do with some blood and salt on toast right now 06:08:33 so you make it 06:08:48 suddenly you are using the toast to surf across the continents; people explode as you pass them 06:08:56 you feel a great power within you as you realise you are now the size of a small village 06:09:03 and have twenty-two arms 06:09:18 you notice that your chest is actually composed of a smaller version of yourself 06:09:19 arm and salt samdwich time 06:09:25 you wave to yourself, and the smaller yourself grabs your arm and bites off your hand 06:09:26 but it is okay 06:09:28 you have twenty-one more 06:09:31 myself is a good samdwich topping too 06:09:35 you think of smiling but decide against it 06:09:37 after all 06:09:42 you are a hard nazi ass in training 06:09:54 you devour the sandwich with all the ingredients and fly over the world 06:10:02 but you sure have a craving for DRUGS ON TOAST 06:10:04 what do you do 06:10:04 > 06:10:13 do i still have drugs children 06:10:19 them on arms toast would be good now.......... 06:10:25 mmmm that sounds good 06:10:29 do you wanna make that bro 06:10:33 yES 06:10:56 you prepare the bread and lick out your dragon tongue at it causing fire, it is now burnt toast... just as you, a hard nazi ass, in training ,likes it 06:11:05 you layer the arms on and they melt..mmmmmm 06:11:15 finally you pile the drugs children on top and they morph into one with the toast 06:11:21 their skin melting and re-hardening as they seep into the toast 06:11:29 they cry the song of nightmares and sprout eyeballs from every skin pore 06:11:35 and they have so much drugs. 06:11:37 do you eat it 06:11:39 do you want to eat it 06:11:39 > 06:11:52 yES 06:12:02 teh world becomes a NES game 06:12:05 viGOURoUSLEY Eat 06:12:07 BLEEP bloop BLEEP BLOOOOOOP 06:12:10 VIGOROURSLY EAT EVERYTHING 06:12:11 MMM 06:12:12 it tastes so good 06:12:17 you become the size of the solar system 06:12:22 and sprout eyeballs from every pore 06:12:27 but it is not the drugs 06:12:29 it is real life 06:12:31 and what happens in drugs 06:12:32 happens in real life 06:12:41 :) 06:12:42 :) :) :) 06:12:43 :)) 06:12:50 you eat a baby and its great 06:12:55 enter command 06:12:56 > 06:12:56 yum 06:12:59 enjoy baby 06:13:23 savoure baby 06:13:23 you enjoy a baby 06:13:25 you dont eat it 06:13:27 you just look at it 06:13:28 and say 06:13:29 dayum 06:13:33 thats a quality baby right there that is 06:13:37 but this is a cruel judgement not 06:13:38 a positive one 06:13:42 to keep with your hard nazi ass in training image 06:14:02 The more you know: "Replacing the WebKit.framework that ships with Mac OS X or any of its components with those from a locally built copy or a nightly build of WebKit is HIGHLY discouraged. Doing so will likely leave your system unusuable and cause a tear in the fabric of spacetime—so don't do it!" 06:14:03 you begin to wonder if instead of a hard nazi ass you shoul dbecome a christian or a utilitarian or a girafe or something 06:14:05 what do you think 06:14:07 > 06:14:13 hi fizzie do you want to play 06:14:25 Not really; I'm at work; all work and no play. 06:14:35 this is a very serious game 06:14:41 it deal with social theme like nazi and opresion 06:14:51 Yes, I've been reading a word here and there. 06:14:55 can i be hard nazi dgerafe 06:14:57 It certainly seems serious enough. 06:15:03 i want to be a hard nazi dgerafe 06:15:19 my specialty is blood grafiti 06:15:21 it is like sophie's choice but without the choice 06:15:36 or schindler's list without the list 06:15:53 monqy: yes you can 06:16:00 you become a ~cool nazi girafe dude~ 06:16:08 you're in a mario game 06:16:12 its totally two dimensional and this is cool 06:16:21 there are lots of innocent children but you already turned them into blood drugs just by looking at them 06:16:21 become the mario game 06:16:24 done 06:16:26 whad now 06:16:26 > 06:16:50 become every mario game....even the bad ones...... 06:17:08 be played.....the players are now blood..... 06:17:10 yes 06:17:10 the blood spells 06:17:12 fuck you 06:17:13 you do GREAET yes 06:17:15 yes 06:17:17 the blood spells that 06:17:19 and you lick it up 06:17:21 with your frog tongue 06:17:23 and al your eyeballs 06:17:26 and your nazi mario game powers 06:17:49 monqy: you have unlocked a new level 06:17:53 !!!! 06:17:53 do you wish to progress to level two 06:17:54 > 06:18:01 this is a good hting to do it sounds like... 06:18:04 i DO 06:18:13 you DO 06:18:15 the whole universe is wiped 06:18:17 a loading screen pops up 06:18:20 loading affsets... 06:18:24 downloading asses.... 06:18:29 court marshalling the friends..... 06:18:32 nazi......................... 06:18:35 welcome..................................................................... 06:18:39 destroying everything you love............ 06:18:43 emailing your parents.................................. 06:18:44 loaded 06:18:55 the screen flashes every colour for ten seconds and your eyes get shot out 06:18:59 now your eyeballs are just filled with blood 06:19:02 you have no idea where you are 06:19:03 > 06:19:31 feel around. it feels good. 06:19:38 yeah 06:19:39 it does 06:19:44 but you have to realise 06:19:52 that your expert position in the previous level 06:19:58 is like a N00B ASS GAMER in this one.... 06:20:03 >: - ) >: - ) 06:20:04 oh no........ 06:20:07 do you want your eyes back 06:20:08 > 06:20:12 that would be nice.... 06:20:15 ok 06:20:17 you have your eyes back 06:20:19 it is: 06:20:27 a tasteful room, decorated as in the eighteen-nineties; 06:20:40 furnished wtih grandfather clock, cane, chair to sit in, rocking chair to sit and rock in (comes with electric guitar + amplifier), 06:20:47 carpet made out of bones, 06:20:51 staircase (tastefully spiralled), 06:21:00 children (not animate; immortal, impossible to destroy); 06:21:07 portal into fourth dimension (violates geometric laws); 06:21:08 cat. 06:21:10 > 06:21:40 throw cat and hcildren into portal at same time.........observe........ 06:21:53 you acnnot move the childreern. they are part of the laws of physics... 06:22:19 > 06:22:32 just the cat, then 06:22:41 or: move portal into children 06:22:50 the cat tumbles into the portal. it appears to the left of you and above you, clipping with all its cuts visible (but not spilling out). 06:22:53 it meows irritatedly. 06:23:00 again, again 06:23:12 you try to move the portal into children, but you find you cannot. the portal moves fine, but the children move away as you move the portal there, then back as you move it back. 06:23:25 you try to pick up the cat but upon moving your hand inside its guts, it teleports into the portal. 06:23:27 you go and pick it up. 06:23:48 use portal to push childrne up stairs 06:24:11 one of my arms dfoes this...the others is in the rocking chair....rocking out........ 06:24:12 you do this but as you go towards the tsairs the children turn around, as rock. you notice their eyes are completely white. 06:24:20 they open their mouth and pure blackness comes out in jagged waves. 06:24:31 it intersects your body and they cry. 06:24:35 > 06:24:37 level reset 06:24:37 > 06:24:42 oh No 06:24:53 it ok u only lost about three turns my frend 06:25:18 rock chair up the stairs..w.ere doing this to gether,,,the chaie.r.....and me...... 06:25:22 rockieng 06:25:31 yeah 06:25:32 you are 06:25:34 and its FUCKING AWESOME 06:25:35 but what it needs 06:25:37 is some drugs 06:25:38 > 06:25:54 use NAZI MAGIC to CONJURATE up some SWET DRUGS 06:26:13 yep 06:26:17 but now youure in a corridor 06:26:19 and everything seems kind of 06:26:20 blurry 06:26:21 > 06:27:04 > 06:27:29 gently remove skull lenses from nazi vest pocket, put on eyes 06:27:39 every type of lenses..... 06:27:44 this feels like a good idea. but first, you think 06:27:52 best to listen to hard nazi ass.wav (about three and a half megabytes) 06:27:58 you upload this file with your other heart. 06:27:59 good idea 06:28:06 it is about twenty per cent uploaded. 06:28:07 this is cool. 06:28:56 fifty-seven per cent. 06:29:02 this will be a great soundtrack to nazi drugs, you think. 06:29:17 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:30:08 monqy: http://ompldr.org/vYWgzYw 06:30:12 you download this file and listen to it. 06:30:19 [pause for reality to catch up with perfection.] 06:30:33 -!- variable has joined. 06:30:56 great soundtrack to nazi drugs 06:31:06 are you prepared to continue 06:31:14 i THinK so 06:31:27 you still in corridor. but now you have skull lenses and eyes and shit. 06:31:27 > 06:31:49 am i playeing the soundtraxck.... 06:32:00 yes. 06:32:03 its great, man. 06:32:04 > 06:32:11 is the coredior less blurey now 06:32:31 no. 06:32:32 > 06:32:38 focus coredior 06:32:52 you cant man. its not your vision. the corridor itself is blurry. 06:32:53 > 06:33:05 command corredior to focus 06:33:12 the corridor laughs hollowly. 06:33:13 > 06:33:19 command HARDER 06:33:28 you command so hard. 06:33:29 so hard. 06:33:32 but the corridor only gets blurrier. 06:33:33 > 06:33:51 walk down corridor while shouting profanitiesies at it 06:33:57 this is the ONLY waY 06:34:05 you do, and continue to mentally command as hard as you can 06:34:09 you focus all your energy on commanding 06:34:20 your eyes squint up and the corridor becomes as blurry as ever, but you know this time it is your vision from squinting. 06:34:28 you do not even bother to see the corridor as you command so hard. 06:34:49 and then 06:34:57 as you finish commanding, exhausted, and prepare to continue walking down 06:35:01 you see the corridor again 06:35:06 and it is just as blurry as when your eyes were a-squint 06:35:18 it bends and becomes diagonal, trapezoid in shape, almost, 06:35:23 give drugs to correidor 06:35:25 and its walls start to come close together, blurry as they are, 06:35:31 and the walls get closer and closer, 06:35:33 you hyperventilate, 06:35:40 sweat beads drip down from every pore of your skin and you panic and run and dash, 06:35:44 but the walls keep closing in tighter 06:35:54 they hit your skin and crack your bones and blood pours out and your organs are crushed and as the walls meet 06:36:06 they both simultaneously cross the infinitesimal space that is the difference between 06:36:09 "touching exactly" 06:36:09 and 06:36:10 "same" 06:36:15 and they pass one infinitesimal distance further 06:36:22 crossing over each other and becoming impossible negative space 06:36:25 but your body is still inside 06:36:32 so it explodes out becoming the entire three-dimensional (four actually, but) space 06:36:37 static abounds everywhere 06:36:39 thoughts are lost 06:36:42 the whole universe is nothignness and you are it 06:36:51 your hard fuckin nazi ass becomes the curtains of this universe of horrors 06:36:51 06:36:54 am i now the children, portal, cat, chair 06:36:58 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRlevel reset 06:36:58 > 06:37:03 oh no 06:37:07 become children 06:37:13 ok. 06:37:17 oh hey man this is sweet. 06:37:21 the life of a children: so sweet. 06:37:25 you see this punk coming up. 06:37:29 tries to push you up the stairs with a portal. 06:37:32 but you'll have none of that shit. 06:37:38 shoot some mothafuckin black rays at him. yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh 06:37:50 ok you're feeling accomplished. you slide back into your natural position as the portal slides back as the punk disappears 06:37:51 what now bro 06:37:59 devoure his flesh 06:38:06 yeah ok 06:38:07 its pretty good 06:38:09 pretty good 06:38:13 not the best you've had but 06:38:13 good 06:38:16 > 06:38:35 push chair into portal 06:38:47 chair or rocking chair 06:38:58 change of plans 06:39:05 put cat on rocking chair, it rocks into portal 06:39:24 you put the cat on the rocking chair. it starts rocking the fuck out. soloing on the guitar and everything. goddam. that's one rockin cat. 06:39:34 it rocks into the portal. 06:39:37 suddenly rock is everywhere 06:39:40 yer in a maze of rock 06:39:43 you think this is pretty cool 06:39:58 also everywhere is cat so every piece of matter is now furry and breathing and has a beating heart inside and ok you admit this is kind of gross 06:39:58 amazeing 06:40:00 but dude 06:40:01 maze of rock 06:40:07 even if the guitar is like... a cat guitar 06:40:10 maze of rock. 06:40:11 > 06:40:29 maze of rock 06:40:32 > 06:40:41 i dunno wander around the maze of rock or something 06:40:53 you begin to think 06:40:57 maybe you want to be a hard nazi ass 06:40:58 ??? 06:40:58 > 06:41:07 oh right that 06:41:15 -!- sllide has joined. 06:41:20 command maze of rock to make me a hard nazi ass 06:41:32 you do it 06:41:33 and it hugs you 06:41:35 its furry like a cat 06:41:37 this is wonderful 06:41:39 but you feel that maybe hugs 06:41:44 are not the way to become a hard nazi ass 06:41:48 do you want to exit this level 06:42:11 kill hugs drink blood 06:42:14 do you want to exit this level 06:42:27 will exiting the level prevent me from killing hugs 06:42:30 because 06:42:32 i want to kill hugs 06:42:38 there is no way to know. 06:42:40 > 06:42:50 kill hugs while exiting level 06:43:06 you do it, but the hugs are ripped away from you as you exit 06:43:07 correct decision 06:43:10 you have unlocked a new level 06:43:14 do you wish to progress to level three 06:43:18 sure 06:43:24 aight. 06:43:26 your name is monqy. 06:43:31 you are on the path to becoming a HARD NAZI ASS. 06:43:34 good level 06:43:34 you are in #esoteric. 06:43:37 what do you do? 06:43:37 > 06:43:58 hard decisionS 06:44:35 > 06:44:39 helP 06:44:55 > 06:45:26 > 06:45:34 im bad at beingmonqy in #espeteric 06:45:40 ;_; 06:45:47 the thing you must realise. 06:45:48 is that by definition 06:45:55 you are the best at being monqy in #esoteric 06:45:58 not #espeteric though that's a whole nother ball game 06:46:02 > 06:46:12 im realize this now, ok. 06:47:28 > 06:47:44 the hardest level......great dificulties lie within monqy being not a hard nazi asss at alll,,,,,i have gone backwards in progres,, 06:47:47 wallowe in shame 06:47:54 no. 06:47:55 you cannot. 06:48:00 because that is not what hard nazi asses do. 06:48:01 > 06:48:27 explore esoteric for ways to beome a hard nazi ass.s. 06:48:56 alright. 06:48:59 to perform this action 06:48:59 say 06:49:05 how do i beome a hard nazi ass.s.? 06:49:13 how do i beome a hard nazi ass.s.? 06:49:17 without 06:49:18 the <>s 06:49:26 or the monqy inside 06:49:26 monqy how do i become a hard nazi ass.s.? 06:49:28 oops 06:49:31 or the space after 06:49:32 how do i become a hard nazi ass.s.? 06:49:33 i need 06:49:33 hlep 06:49:50 becomeing is not my 06:49:51 forte 06:50:02 fizzie: help the man 06:50:14 (tahtht's work) 06:50:53 monqy: (this level is played in realtime) 06:51:00 oh no 06:51:07 monqy: do you want me to try and help you 06:51:16 this may helP... 06:51:29 monqy: hi ok. 06:51:29 well. 06:51:31 i think to become that. 06:51:35 you need to enter commands into the game. 06:51:37 such that you become that. 06:51:42 try listening to hard nazi ass.wav. 06:51:43 it may help you. 06:51:48 aeooaoeooaeooo 06:52:10 all i know about the lyrics to that is that they include "hard nazi ass" 06:52:14 i know no more... 06:52:28 aoeoaoeohardnaziassaeaooeoaoeoeaoeoeaaoo 06:52:47 06:52:47 06:52:47 06:52:47 06:52:47 06:52:47 06:52:49 > 06:52:56 become hard nazi ass 06:53:00 how 06:53:00 > 06:53:44 rolepaly nazi on journey to hard ass to become...,,,,in this adventure,,,it happens 06:53:59 ok you do that 06:54:03 so you open the game console 06:54:05 and start to type in 06:54:06 the console says 06:54:08 [ > ] 06:54:10 what do you type in 06:54:10 > 06:54:18 become hard nazi ass 06:54:24 ok how 06:54:25 > 06:54:28 help 06:54:35 > 06:54:52 in the adventure....is the twist ending....that the hard nazi ass was in my heart....all along 06:54:56 no 06:54:59 > 06:55:00 oh no 06:55:23 investigate cheats manual 06:55:31 there is none. 06:55:32 apply yourself 06:55:33 > 06:55:34 how to become hard nazi ass.help 06:55:35 remember 06:55:38 that you have been 06:55:42 playing the game you are playing now 06:55:43 as monqy 06:55:46 in #esoteric 06:55:49 on the path to becoming a nazi ass 06:55:50 for a very long time now 06:55:54 so you must ask yourself 06:55:56 how is this any different 06:55:59 to what I have been doing ? 06:56:31 > 06:56:33 in this comnsole game i was not given a propmt like the others,,,, 06:56:39 look around, console 06:56:40 yes you were 06:56:46 oh,,,, 06:56:46 your name is monqy. 06:56:47 you are on the path to becoming a HARD NAZI ASS. 06:56:47 you are in #esoteric. 06:56:51 oh that one 06:56:58 that is a harD prompT 06:57:07 no 06:57:08 because 06:57:12 it is what you have been doing for a long time already 06:57:14 its just telling you 06:57:17 keep doing what youore doing??? 06:57:18 > 06:57:51 my doing has become dulll, 06:58:02 APPLY 06:58:03 YOUR 06:58:03 SELF 06:58:04 > 06:58:09 im apply self 06:58:15 > 06:58:18 you apply yourself 06:58:18 > 06:58:25 kicks elliot, screams about hard nazi asses 06:58:33 OW 06:58:34 FUCKKEKK 06:58:39 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/INTERRUPT DECISION TIME 06:58:40 UR A JERK 06:58:43 WANNA TRY SOME JERK DRUGS 06:58:43 ??/ 06:58:44 > 06:58:47 YEs 06:59:03 if they are pOIson, i force them down your throAT 06:59:17 you do 06:59:18 i die 06:59:25 rip 06:59:30 throw eliot funeral party 06:59:40 dances on graves 07:01:18 the desynchronisation between the game fact that i am dead and the real fact that i am alive causes an infinite universe recursion. 07:01:18 > 07:01:39 harnes recusion power to become hard naiz ass 07:02:01 done. 07:02:01 > 07:02:08 ok 07:02:11 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:02:57 fizzie: hi 07:03:55 rip channel being good 05:40—07:02 07:19:53 -!- azaq231 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:46:27 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:55:13 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:44 -!- elliott has joined. 07:57:58 does anyone know decent DNS providers? I don't like OpenDNS. I'm tempted to just use Google Public DNS, but... 07:58:11 Hmm, maybe I'll run that "try a bunch of DNS servers and find the best" program. 07:58:19 "My ISP" 07:58:29 Deewiant: You vastly overestimate the quality of my ISP. 07:58:34 Oh, your ISP? 07:58:37 Fuck your ISP. 07:58:41 :-( 07:58:52 I'm sure it's lovely, I'm also sure it's shitty from England :P 07:58:58 http://code.google.com/p/namebench/ This is the thang 07:59:08 -!- iamcal has joined. 07:59:18 I'm sure it won't respond to DNS queries from non-customers 07:59:24 Fascism 07:59:33 Maybe I'll ring them up 07:59:36 "I'd like to buy JUST DNS." 07:59:45 "Also I'm in England." 07:59:55 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to DrDerpa. 08:01:16 Sure does take a while 08:01:17 Use one of those alternative-root DNS services, they're so undergrund. 08:01:24 fizzie: Heh, yes, "undergrund" 08:01:25 fizzie: Heh, yes, "undergrund". 08:01:30 That's certainly one word. 08:01:54 fizzie: You might want to ban me in advance before oerjan does it after logreading, btw. 08:02:19 (I was tempted to spell it "undergründ".) 08:02:23 Is there a reason? 08:02:27 It did seem to be missing an umlaut, yes. 08:02:50 fizzie: Well, I have the slightest feeling he may not quite enjoy over an hour of illogical Nazi-drug-toast text adventure gameplay. 08:03:02 That's a personal failing of his, though, naturally. 08:03:26 Gosh, namebench sure does take a while. 08:03:32 Ohhh, that. Wellll... there weren't any complainers, were there? 08:03:58 fizzie: Well, Lymia said I was mad and then /parted, but that was under an alternate nick, so it NEVER HAPPENED. (Rule of IRC.) 08:04:27 Nobody else, but I think everyone else was just asleep and/or busy. 08:04:41 Or watching attentively, eagerly anticipating every development. That's possible too. 08:05:01 It's alright though, all the cool people are in -minecraft anyway. 08:05:38 -!- DrDerpa has changed nick to copumpkin. 08:06:25 What _is_ namebench doing? Oh, I see. 08:07:10 I wonder if the time I'm losing doing nothing while waiting for namebench is greater than the combined amount of time I'll save by switching to a faster DNS provider. 08:13:26 I tried it but unusual result came out. The result showed my access point IP which is 192.168.1.1 the best one. quit strange but working result was quite good. coul any one explain technically how such thing is possible. Is my access point could be a public DNS. 08:20:41 I wonder if maybe I should run a local DNS cache. 08:45:15 elliott: hi 08:45:21 also fizzie talked just above 08:46:17 elliott: hm, does namebench work well? 08:46:28 Just above what? 08:46:57 never mind, misread elliott's line as if he was alone, not noticing you 08:47:14 Ah'kay. 08:47:21 elliott: Personally I just run a local unbound dns server. 08:48:59 why is it that some random university system sends a HTML-only mail with the subject (translated) "Daily summary of notice panel" about *once every week*. 08:50:11 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:22:11 -!- elliott has joined. 09:22:28 Backetyback. 09:22:34 08:46:17: elliott: hm, does namebench work well? 09:22:34 Pretty well, yes. 09:29:17 -!- elliott_ has joined. 09:29:18 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:00:51 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:22:27 pikhq: What do Tk bindings usually look like 10:22:37 Do you have to mess with Tcl crap or is there a mostly-C API available 10:32:46 -!- nooga has joined. 10:32:51 http://chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/ pretty nice 10:44:23 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:48:23 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 10:49:45 "In a few cases, these are native bindings (C and Perl at least) while others create a link between calls to Tcl/Tk and the language." 10:51:10 Tcl and Tk are both written in C, and the former calls to the latter, so there needs to be some sort of a thing there. 10:51:20 Right. 11:08:32 "The file tk.h should be considered a public declaration of the Tk C functions, defines/macros, and structures which a developer can safely depend on." -- oh, please. 11:20:16 elliott_ why "oh please"? 11:20:53 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:21:19 Vorpal: That's not a substitute for API documentation. 11:21:48 elliott_: my tk.h seems to be very well documented in the form of comments 11:21:58 Doesn't beat manpages. 11:22:03 true 11:24:00 hm I used tup a bit, very nice. There is just one issue I have with it really: No equivalent to make's -j 11:24:08 Yes... there is... 11:24:11 Read "man tup". 11:24:20 elliott_: hm I did. Will have to check again 11:24:40 You can use the num_jobs configuration (user or project-local), or -jN to tup upd. 11:25:12 ah right 11:28:55 elliott_: btw what is the correct way to get generated files included in a build? For example I might have a :foreach *.c rule, and a rule that generates a *.c file using bison or some such. 11:29:08 will the foreach *.c include the generated .c file? 11:31:50 Vorpal: If it occurs after the generating rule, I believe. 11:32:28 elliott_: in textual order in the Tupfile you mean? Or as ordered by those order-only dependencies? 11:32:47 Textual, I think. Don't quote me on this. I know the order matters in some cases, basically to match what it would do as a shell script. 11:32:55 right 11:33:35 hm.... either order seems to work, but then it is hard to know if it will always work, like on a clean build on another system or such. 11:33:54 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:34:33 elliott_: I guess I should ask pikhq? He seems quite knowledgeable about tup. 11:34:42 Vorpal: Just post on tup-user. 11:34:47 Mike will probably answer it within a day or two. 11:34:49 ergh, mailing list 11:34:52 oh well 11:34:59 It's google groups. 11:35:01 Sorry, tup-users 11:35:06 So you don't have to subscribe or anything. 11:35:17 oh okay. I never even used google groups, would have to figure out how that works too 11:35:22 still, not a mailing list 11:35:49 Well, it's primarily subscribe-and-email-reply based. But it can work basically like a crappy imitation of a web forum. 11:35:57 You don't have to receive messages through email and can post through the web. 11:36:02 It's low-traffic, mind. 11:36:05 fair enough 11:36:14 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:59 elliott_: oh btw, I noticed tup complain about /etc/fuse.conf not being readable on my ubuntu system. tup seems to work correctly as far as I can tell though 11:37:59 hm 11:38:03 any idea? 11:41:11 Vorpal: it'll try to read it, since it uses fuse 11:42:09 elliott_: hm doesn't stuff need to be suid to use fuse? 11:42:43 or maybe not 11:42:48 thought that was required 11:43:27 but sshfs seems to manage without. 11:44:14 no 11:44:19 that's the whole point of fuse :P 11:44:39 That's not the *whole* point of FUSE. 11:44:47 oh it is fusermount that is suid 11:45:02 to be able to unmount I guess 11:47:48 fizzie: Well, at least a quarter of it. 11:51:34 It might have been Debian that came with fusermount normally suid-root but executable only by the 'fuse' group. 11:51:44 Not sure about Ubuntu; here it seems to be for all users. 11:52:15 -!- cheater has joined. 11:57:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:57:21 Incidentally, what's it use fuse for? 11:58:00 fizzie: you mean tup? 11:58:03 tracking deps I think 11:58:46 fizzie: since it can see every file opened by commands it execute that way. Unlike a LD_PRELOAD it would work even for static binaries 11:59:54 elliott_: i see the spelling in this channel has gründ to a halt. 12:00:13 oerjan: have you got to the nazi game yet 12:00:24 fizzie: Vorpal got it right; fuse is also more portable than LD_PRELOAD. 12:00:34 ...i was planning to skip the rest of the logs 12:00:46 oh, that's after the game 12:00:53 oerjan: no, you totally shouldn't :D 12:01:01 eek 12:01:11 elliott_: hm I thought fuse was linux only 12:01:24 Vorpal: no 12:01:39 elliott_: what OSes does it support then? FreeBSD? Windows? OS X? 12:01:52 OS X yes. BSDs I think so yes. 12:02:16 http://fuse4bsd.creo.hu/ http://www.netbsd.org/docs/puffs/ "FUSE compatibility was added within pkgsrc, and besides the required infrastructure work a number of FUSE packages were added to pkgsrc in the new "filesystem" category. Example packages that are currently available include: 12:02:16 " 12:02:30 - no cute aminals!!!!!!!!!!!!&^ 12:02:31 And the Hurd. 12:02:41 fizzie: Ah yes. 12:02:44 but hitler loved animals! more than people, probably. 12:02:54 oerjan: we're better nazis than the nazis, basically. 12:05:46 the perfect nazi: kills everyone else for not being perfect. then kills emself for having no friends. 12:06:31 how did you discover the game's true plot 12:06:53 i have a nose for perfection. 12:07:04 what a coincidence. i have a nose. 12:09:20 i am not convinced browsing this makes me a better person. 12:09:51 oerjan: if you don't read it, how will you ever find the evidence to ban me with 12:18:12 well it is important for children to be able to play games so they don't grow up into serial killers. oh wait... 12:18:47 :D 12:30:34 i somehow think that the theory that tolkien's works were really written by william shakespeare has not got much exposition before. 12:31:46 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:32:03 Hello! 12:32:10 maybe i should repeat that. 12:32:21 i somehow think that the theory that tolkien's works were really written by william shakespeare has not got much exposition before. 12:32:36 Yes 12:33:41 Also, I found someone who's heard of elliott_ 12:33:44 That is, our elliott_ 12:33:52 Not the elliott_ who kicked my friend in the fac 12:33:53 e 12:34:01 Who is probably not the same elliott_ 12:34:08 let's hope so. 12:34:39 He said "Elliott's weirder than you. Somehow." 12:34:51 XD 12:35:10 i sense a plan doomed to failure 12:35:15 They went to the same first school for a bit, apparently 12:35:51 oops. 12:36:21 Before elliott_ switched 12:36:26 To a different school 12:39:48 -!- elliott_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:40:24 Also, there is nowhere near enough editing of the wiki ATM 12:41:28 Ngevd: the simple solution to that is to stop banning spambots 12:42:43 oerjan: oh and it seems iwc didn't stop. :) 12:43:08 *gasp* 12:43:21 oerjan: are you surprised? 12:43:39 not immensely 12:43:45 right 12:50:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 13:12:28 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:12:31 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 13:14:46 -!- variable- has quit (Excess Flood). 13:16:59 -!- variable has joined. 13:30:06 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 13:39:27 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 13:39:28 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 13:39:28 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 13:41:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:48:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:07:24 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 14:10:00 -!- variable has joined. 14:11:21 wow there are so many files in this google n-gram data that are just... numbers. 14:11:27 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:11:42 millions of number entries. 14:11:51 and currency entries. 14:27:46 Possibly they have scanned some function tables. 14:28:15 Have I mentioned my trigonometric function table book here? I think I have mentioned my trigonometric function table book here. 14:28:29 It's the one that was donated by the good peoples of the US of A. 14:28:38 does it have hacovercosine? 14:30:08 "This book has been presented to Finland by the Government of the United States of America, under Public Law 265, 81st Congress, as an expression of the friendship and good will which the people of the United States hold for the people of Finland." 14:30:18 lol 14:30:21 I believe not. 14:30:58 It's titled "Seven-place values of trigonometric functions". 14:31:15 yes I often think about my deep affinity with the Finnish people. 14:31:36 I suppose everyone in your country does. 14:31:44 It's like a thing with you people. 14:33:56 "Finland Pays Its Debts and Gets Books in Return: ASLA Grants to the Finnish Academic Libraries, 1950-1967; In 1949 the U.S. Congress passed a law (P.L. 81-265) that transformed Finnish payments on the loans acquired from the United States after World War I into a fund. Out of the fund, grants for travel in the United States were given to Finnish researchers and specialists. Finnish institutions of higher education were given grants in order to acquire American 14:33:56 scientific and scholarly books as well as technical equipment." 14:34:29 I got it for I think 2 eur from the "we want to get rid of this stuff" sale of the university library. 14:35:32 Also bought the book about how to (mechanically; without real understanding) convert ALGOL-60 programs to FORTRAN-II/IV programs. It has lots of details on different computers; word sizes and that sort of stuff. 14:35:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:42:45 -!- augur has joined. 14:44:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:46:27 fizzie: needs moar SICP 14:57:22 -!- elliott_ has joined. 14:59:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:59:54 I wonder what I should do with these 1.2 gigs of O'Reily books. 15:00:00 read them? 15:00:01 surely not... 15:06:41 -!- elliott_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:08:30 I'll probably just keep them as reference material. 15:11:45 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly). 15:22:55 -!- elliott has joined. 15:23:02 http://www.reagan.com/emailintro.html 15:24:17 wow software process models sure are bullshit. 15:24:18 $40 a year for email? 15:24:19 Wow. 15:24:23 I am literally learning about nothing. 15:24:49 we are staring at charts of imaginary things and talking about imaginary imaginariness. 15:27:08 > 40/12 15:27:09 3.3333333333333335 15:27:50 God Bless Ronald Reagan America 15:27:57 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but it's for conservatives, so they'll either be rich, or act as if they're rich in every situation despite not being rich. 15:28:25 that's really not very much money... but it is for email. 15:29:30 money better invested in sour punch straws. 15:39:56 -!- monqy has joined. 15:42:53 monqy better invested in sour punch straws 15:43:27 hi 15:46:12 I think I should get a blog 15:46:19 so I can write about all the boring stuff I do. 15:46:29 i thought that was #esoteric 15:46:35 ~SICKKEK BURNENES~ 15:46:40 NOEP 15:46:50 #esoteric is where I go to SUFFER. 15:46:59 also talk about computer science. 15:47:14 because apparently all of the people in my life know nothing about that. 15:47:40 the science of how to fix my computer 15:47:55 I signed up for an open university course today 15:47:58 monqy: that's electronic engineering 15:48:01 monqy: 1) replace all hardware components 2) install linux 15:48:02 fixed 15:48:04 works every time. 15:48:04 "Linux: an introduction" 15:48:11 Ngevd: oh ear 15:48:12 ... 15:48:13 dear 15:48:16 oh dear deer ear 15:48:17 Ngevd, is it MST 432 computerfixing. 15:48:17 who needs a course to introduce linux? 15:48:32 monqy: that's electronic engineering 15:48:37 (MS and MST are the only OU prefixes I know.) 15:48:39 ais523: that may be a slightly more involved computer-fixing than most people require 15:48:40 monqy: no one, everyone is a linux nerd in the entire world. 15:48:40 all 15:48:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:48:51 elliott: oh, right, I assumed he meant hardware 15:49:03 if it's a software problem, "broken" isn't the word I'd typically use 15:49:06 "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" "Oh, that worked. Thanks." "Thank god I got that EE degree." 15:49:40 so last night I was moving a bunch of files 15:49:53 and it was making my computer annoyingly laggy 15:49:59 so I set the nice level of mv to like... 16 I think. 15:50:06 -!- augur has joined. 15:50:19 and suddenly a bash process began using all of my CPU cycles, at which point my computer abruptly cut off. 15:50:26 what was that about? 15:50:44 this is why you should take linux an introduction 15:50:49 ahahaha 15:50:53 ...I realize 16 is an extreme nice level. 15:50:59 but I didn't think it would crash my computer... 15:51:29 NO NICE ALLOWED 15:51:34 LINUX IS MEAN. :((( 15:51:52 elliott: that reminds me of the joke, "$famousperson found someone turning a computer off and on again to try to fix a problem, but it wasn't working. He said 'you can't fix a problem by turning a computer off and on again without understanding what is wrong with it'. Then he turned the computer off and on again, and the computer worked." 15:52:08 CakeProphet: what sort of crash? kernel panic? computer turning off? 15:52:14 computer turned off 15:52:16 ais523: that's a rubbish joke, it's much better as the original koan 15:52:16 normally, when a computer abruptly turns off it's because it overheated 15:52:19 elliott: indeed 15:52:24 but I can't remember the original koan exactly 15:52:26 as in like hard cutoff. 15:52:27 A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on. 15:52:27 Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: "You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong." 15:52:27 Knight turned the machine off and on. 15:52:27 The machine worked. 15:53:54 ais523: well there was a bash process at 400% CPU 15:53:58 right before it turned off. 15:54:10 I merely assumed it had something to do with adjusting the nice level of mv. 15:54:20 as that's when it happened. 15:54:23 that would explain why the computer would be heating up, if had heating issues 15:54:32 as full CPU usage tends to make a CPU hotter 15:54:39 >_> I would imagine so. 15:54:49 Ngevd, wait why are you doing that? 15:54:51 it was a very short amount of time. 15:54:52 also, you'd expect your CPU to be running at maximum whenever it had a reason to do so 15:54:54 a few seconds. 15:55:01 nice just controls what processes get priority 15:55:01 yay, my issue got fixed 15:55:15 ais523: my CPU almost never runs at max 15:55:19 but each CPU should be running at 100% all the time the computer needs to make calculations, or you're just being slow for no reason 15:55:32 the only reason a CPU shouldn't be running at max is that you have no CPU-bound processes 15:55:32 ais523: if you're in the 90s... 15:55:46 ITT: Power usage, fan speed, battery life :P 15:55:50 elliott: quite a few people seem to have a fear of processes using 100% CPU 15:55:52 CakeProphet: The university bookshop sold SICPs at 5 eur/piece when our "introduction to programming" course switched from Scheme to Python/Java/whatever, and it was no longer a course book. 15:56:05 fizzie: wow nice. 15:56:12 fizzie: did you buy it? did you already own it? 15:56:13 ais523: They usually slow the rest of the system down because Unix. 15:56:16 well, except, it's completely free online. 15:56:23 Specifically the user interface. 15:56:34 elliott: well, it's a matter of task prioritisation 15:56:38 the user interface doesn't normally run at RT prio 15:56:40 Phantom_Hoover: School reccomended I take one 15:56:43 arguably it /should/, but it doesn't 15:56:44 ais523: It should. 15:56:45 :p 15:56:51 I suppose mv is IO-bound and not CPU-bound, it was taking about 25% of max. 15:57:03 Honestly, not responding to the user is pretty much the worst UI crime you can commit. 15:57:07 yep, mv is about as IO-bound as you can get 15:57:18 I suppose no interface is truly unresponsive; it'll always respond properly to pulling the power cable. 15:57:19 also at the same time I was decompressing roughly 20 gbs of zip files. 15:57:25 elliott: I prefer processes to be honest about whether they're frozen or not 15:57:29 ais523: I'd say cp is more IO-bound than mv 15:57:33 mv is more syscall-bound, on the same device 15:57:34 which was still only like 80% usage. 15:57:37 hmm, perhaps 15:57:44 Ngevd, ...why? 15:57:52 ais523: what does that have to do with UI priority? 15:58:11 elliott: it depends on what you define as the UI 15:58:19 also my laptop is sitting on my bed so the fan is partially obstructed. it would make sense that it overheated abruptly. 15:58:28 even currently-modern OSes are pretty good at always having the mouse pointer move, for instance 15:58:31 when you move the moues 15:58:33 *mouse 15:58:41 but if it can't click on anything and have it respond, that's useless 15:58:42 there's a side vent as well so it's not like the cooling system is completely obstructed. 15:58:49 ais523: That certainly doesn't hold true for me 15:59:06 elliott: I'm used to the days of Windows crashing so hard that nothing but the mouse pointer worked 15:59:09 I can guarantee on roughly nothing working if the system is taxed enough. 15:59:19 Often it's too hung to even switch to a VT. 16:00:52 ais523: do you think the nice value had anything to do with the bash process suddenly skyrocketing in CPU usage or perhaps it was a coincidence. 16:01:13 I think it was irrelevant 16:01:27 still I have no idea what the bash process was doing then... 16:01:29 elliott: sometimes I can switch to a VT just fine after alt-sysrq-R, but not before 16:01:33 ais523: haha 16:01:35 and it occured immediately after changing the priority. 16:01:35 so it's nothing to do with being hung, but rather being in an invalid state 16:01:38 I don't have a Sysrq key 16:01:45 how do you not have a sysrq key? 16:01:47 Mac? 16:01:48 laptop 16:01:54 and mac, yeah :P 16:01:55 yeah I don't have one either. 16:01:56 every laptop I've ever used had some way to type sysrq 16:02:00 this laptop has a physical sysrq key 16:02:04 it was some crazy combo on the one before 16:02:12 Surely it has a physical print screen key. 16:02:12 fn-insert or something 16:02:18 Nobody uses SysRq :P 16:02:19 Phantom_Hoover: your guess is as good as mine 16:02:20 elliott: it has PRTSC SYSRQ written on it 16:02:28 the SYSRQ is arguably slightly more prominent 16:02:40 PRTSC. Really. 16:02:41 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:02:43 also, alt-sysrq-k is the only method I have of logging out on this system 16:02:53 ouch, why 16:03:07 -!- augur has joined. 16:03:18 I actually have no idea what sysrq does... 16:03:22 elliott: because I removed the logout widget to save the screen corner 16:03:35 I believe in Fitts' Law much like you do 16:03:49 although I'm only actually using two screen corners because of a shortage of things to put on the other two 16:04:18 I've started to see Fitts' law as more of an argument for the inefficiency of mice in general than for their efficiency in special cases (not that I think the traditional command-line interface is much more productive on its own) 16:04:24 like, on the one hand, corners are really easy to access 16:04:32 on the other hand, almost all locations on the screen are difficult to 16:04:37 (access) 16:04:49 I agree with you, there 16:05:11 I tend not to use mice for anything much other than web brosing 16:05:13 *browsing 16:05:28 my computer should have some fancy interface that tracks my eye movements. 16:05:31 as the mouse. 16:05:33 although I make sure I have my taskbar in a consistent order, I mostly use alt-tab to change windows 16:05:43 CakeProphet: it exists 16:05:45 CakeProphet: it exists, but clicking is frustrating with that 16:05:52 it's rather painful, though, which is why only disabled people tend to use it 16:05:57 painful in the annoying sense 16:06:40 elliott: what's your opinion on dwell-click? 16:06:48 the idea that you can click a mouse by moving it to a stop from a particular direction 16:06:53 and to avoid clicking, you move it to a stop from the other direction 16:06:53 ais523: it irritates me :P 16:06:57 but that says little 16:07:04 most things irritate you 16:07:04 oh, no in the painful sense? no scary cables that you have to inject in your brain? 16:07:07 I think your mouse being a ticking time bomb unless you constantly move it around is a bad idea in general, though 16:07:08 *not 16:07:14 have you tried it? I haven't 16:07:28 CakeProphet: it just uses a webcam 16:07:32 I think I have a higher tolerance to pain than many people; I even got decent at playing Enigma with a touchpad 16:07:35 ais523: there's a site that does it :-) 16:07:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:07:36 (flash) 16:07:39 higher tolerance to bad UI pain, I mean 16:07:43 and yells at you if you click 16:07:57 it was on the ~~social networking~~ sites a few years ago 16:07:59 I find I'm inconsistent about whether I tap-click or button-click 16:08:02 mice are good. mice are fine. mice + shell = sufficient 16:08:03 me too 16:08:11 ais523: what is Enigma? 16:08:13 mice suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck 16:08:15 cheater: a game 16:08:20 well, there are several games with that name 16:08:22 mmmm enigma., been ages since i've played that 16:08:25 cheater: a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a riddle 16:08:29 touch screen is a minor improvement to a mouse perhaps. 16:08:30 the one I'm thinking of is http://enigma-game.org 16:08:35 can't imagine it with a atouchpade though 16:08:39 it has the worst trailer of anything ever, it's so bad it's hilarious to watch 16:08:46 you can play anything with a touchpad, it just makes you more hardcore 16:08:46 yeah I was thinking of that one too 16:08:50 CakeProphet: playing Enigma with a touchscreen would be basically impossible 16:08:55 ais523: can you tell me a short description? i cannot open the web page 16:08:57 it works much better with a tilt sensor than touchscreen 16:09:00 even if you copypaste from there. 16:09:02 http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/index.html 16:09:08 ais523: oh I was kind of not in that thread of discussion. 16:09:14 the Enigma one. 16:09:24 just discussing physical interfaces still. 16:09:33 cheater: you control a marble by accelerating it with your mouse; you have to solve puzzles, mostly by colliding your marble into things that interact with the puzzles 16:09:41 oh that! 16:09:41 yes gaming + touchscreen = smudgey screen 16:09:43 i remember it 16:09:47 it was fun. 16:09:56 oh god this movie clips thing 16:10:05 ais523: I already owned it; didn't buy a second copy, ineiros bought a couple (5?) though to give to people. 16:10:17 this is beautiful 16:10:28 monqy: It's art. 16:10:28 I love this loud encoding fuck ups in this class recording 16:10:43 enigma has different floors ! 16:10:45 it has the worst trailer of anything ever, it's so bad it's hilarious to watch 16:10:49 monqy: you're talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9l26Y-mBk right 16:10:50 because 16:10:51 that's the good one 16:10:51 Wait, how awful is the trailer/ 16:10:51 "-soft professor mumble- -mumblemumble- EEEEEEEERK -mumblemumble- EERK" 16:10:56 ais523: oh no they're making a trailer two 16:10:57 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9l26Y-mBk 16:10:58 Phantom_Hoover: this awful 16:11:07 sit through all 9 minutes to win a prize (the prize is giving up on life) 16:11:10 Oh my god this is amazing. 16:11:13 elliott: that's the one I'm talking about, thanks for digging up the link before I did 16:11:29 or meditate 16:11:30 in the holes 16:11:41 that game is really really bad at advertising 16:11:44 tutorial 16:11:45 example 16:11:57 and the tutorial doesn't really fill people with confidence 16:11:59 move 16:12:00 the blocks 16:12:01 16:12:02 well 16:12:02 agh 16:12:06 i musnt't quote every line from this 16:12:07 but it's so good 16:12:20 Move block! 16:12:24 For great justice! 16:12:27 ais523: do the people behind this actually think it's good btw 16:12:35 I don't know 16:12:43 beware of unfriendly actors... i met an unfriendly actor once 16:12:43 have you seen the death stones 16:12:45 my guess is yes, because they wouldn't be promoting it so heavily otherwise 16:12:45 Unfriendly actors! 16:12:46 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:12:47 he was in a movie but he was mean :( 16:13:03 have you seen the death stones... 16:13:10 help 16:13:12 what's that 16:13:13 ? 16:13:21 move the blocks well … 16:13:31 sweet bro and hella enigma 16:13:37 help 16:13:37 16:13:38 16:13:39 what's that 16:13:39 Hellanigma. 16:13:39 ? 16:13:41 oh my god it actually 16:13:42 just said that 16:13:45 indeed 16:13:46 it actually just said "help" 16:13:49 on a line of its own :') 16:14:15 It's so gloriously awful. 16:14:18 this chess example is very foreboding, musicwise 16:14:27 enigma includes 16:14:27 16:14:33 ... 16:14:35 laser games 16:14:45 I just noticed that "have you seen the death stones" comes up on a screen with no death stones 16:14:51 ais523: i think they're just 16:14:52 reminding you 16:14:55 of the screen like a minute prior 16:14:58 oh it was 16:14:59 laser 16:15:00 games 16:15:01 ... 16:15:02 this dance is very unpalatable, science-wise. 16:15:02 oops 16:15:02 "oh hey, there were death stones there... pls rewind" 16:15:02 this thing has new depths of brilliance every time I watch it 16:15:14 in some ways, this is the best possible trailer 16:15:31 portal chess is the best game 16:15:39 oh man this level looks hard 16:15:43 i don't want to try to reah the other side 16:15:45 i'm happy with the side god gave me 16:15:46 elliott: which one? 16:15:51 ais523: four minutes fifty seconds in 16:15:58 bunch of disappearing/spiralling platforms 16:16:04 I haven't got there yet, I'll tell you my opinion when I get there 16:16:13 do you find the message 16:16:18 elliott: shame you're not playing portal chess then you could just drump through your knight's nose. 16:16:20 ... 16:16:33 i like how it picked up a bunch of money 16:16:35 went into the next room 16:16:38 and just dropped it for no reason 16:16:46 welcome to this maze! ... 16:16:47 welcome 16:16:50 the chess example is just there because people used to have no idea how to operate chess stones, IIRC 16:17:11 it stopped being onscrieen before i could transcribe it 16:17:11 This is a temple full of gold! 16:17:14 why is this so great 16:17:31 this is the best possible thing we could all do together for 9 minutes 16:17:44 oh no an unfriendl actor 16:17:59 i love how enigma water looks nothing like water 16:18:06 it just looks like blue floor 16:18:09 do you like puzzles? 16:18:11 .puzzles puzzles.. 16:18:40 elliott: oh right, I reached the level you were talking about, it's pretty hard, although not the hardest level in the set of all levels similar to it 16:19:04 who edited this thing did they think we cared about this section of gameplay minutiae 16:19:09 or would have any idea what's going on 16:19:23 being 16:19:23 lost 16:19:24 in Enigma 16:19:25 Space 16:19:26 16:19:26 ? 16:19:33 me too 16:19:47 elliott: I can't explain it, so don't ask me to 16:20:05 what logo is that 16:20:06 it's like 16:20:07 the un logo 16:20:08 but 16:20:09 not 16:20:12 ANASIDHAISUDHQWIEUHASIUDHQWEIUHASOPAPQPWOEOWPEPWPESODJGFKDKDSKF 16:20:13 thomas bernhardt why 16:20:24 hi CakeProphet 16:20:33 wacro? 16:20:36 towards the end, they're just showing off some of the highest-rated levels, and completely missing the reasons /why/ they're highest-rated 16:20:37 xxxxtomasxxburnxxheartxxxx 16:20:53 ais523: beautiful 16:21:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXcpU9RNxuc 16:21:15 watching magic moments of enigma 16:21:16 engrossing 16:21:22 magic moments is considerably better than the trailer 16:21:26 oh :( 16:21:40 ais523: do you click links nowadays, i'd like your opinion of that linked level 16:21:50 portal chess is considerably better than all games. 16:21:56 the best at game. 16:21:59 I'm not clicking that, but only because it'd open in Firefox, which doesn't have Flash added 16:22:03 more like chortal pess :/ 16:22:04 I'll open it in a browser that does have Flash support 16:22:19 magic moments has good music 16:22:21 elliott? more like liotioeltot 16:22:24 if only the trailer had this music 16:22:25 oh, "bowling", it's a stupid annoying luck-based level 16:22:35 I hate it 16:22:54 what about a bayou by you 16:22:55 -!- augur has joined. 16:22:57 that one also has a funny playthrough 16:23:04 I don't think I've solved that one 16:23:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa2_TpYJ_Ug 16:23:09 six seconds :P 16:23:30 or, maybe I have 16:23:34 but not that fast 16:23:47 lol 16:23:47 why is there a scantily-clad anime girl in the suggestions thing at the end 16:23:48 Alain Busser has a tendency to make huge, artistic levels that are quite easy once you know the solutions 16:23:52 also, excessively mathematical ones 16:24:03 Phantom_Hoover: That is the true spirit of Enigma. 16:24:17 Truspirenigmat. 16:24:21 Wow, it's German. 16:24:42 enjoy baby 16:24:43 Where's this magic moments video? 16:24:46 Engima is indeed originally German 16:24:52 ais523: So is truspirenigmat. 16:25:00 but it's translated into a lot of langauges 16:25:02 *languages 16:25:04 It's quite a German game, Enigma. Not quite sure why I say this. 16:25:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umbOX3DwxeQ magic moments 16:25:13 I feel so honoured having text strings I wrote translated into other languages 16:25:18 :') 16:25:27 I see a french translation of something in one of my levels, and bask in it 16:25:29 did they translate it into non-ais english 16:25:40 "original string had too many nested parentheses and overflowed enigma's string buffer" 16:25:46 i want enigma in zzo english 16:25:49 they even translated the original English into non-ais English 16:26:00 monqy: it would be too much 16:26:01 too much 16:26:02 by adding spaces before punctuation marks other than full stops 16:26:15 ais523: that's French english :P 16:26:28 one level I wrote is called "Choices, choices ..." 16:26:34 I think it's a ... not a … 16:26:43 but I'm not completely sure, I find them hard to tell apart 16:28:01 btw, the addition of "rhythm of space" at the end of the trailer was just trolling, as the level isn't actually /in/ the released version of Enigma 16:28:23 also, it's a really trollish level, it's just a really really big maze with lots of backtracking and items and deathtraps 16:28:31 I don't like big levels that are easy to die in / make unwinnable 16:28:48 `quote flip a coin 16:28:50 610) game where you flip a coin but it's really really big 16:28:52 enigma needs that 16:29:06 unless such deaths/unwins are always the player's fault and the player has enough information to work it out in advance 16:29:24 (that's what I did with "Choices, choices ..." where you get to see the entire level before you start playing, and there's basically no hidden information) 16:29:46 So how's the Enigma AI scene 16:29:50 I guess the Lua stuff kinda messes with that 16:29:54 I don't think it exists 16:30:00 It should 16:30:07 and quite a lot of levels don't need custom Lua 16:30:17 I avoid it in my levels where I can and still meet the concept of the level 16:30:59 sometimes dynamic scripting is unavoidable, but I hope to avoid it where possible 16:31:15 (I use Lua to /generate/ the levels quite a lot, so that a level isn't the same every time, but that's different as everything still acts like you'd expect it to) 16:37:41 does anyone know a good way to do a human-consumable diff of binary files? 16:38:08 elliott: od then diff works if the difference is a multiple-of-n bytes long (where n is the line width) 16:38:22 it's probably nit 16:38:23 not 16:38:29 I'd prefer it be agnostic to such "relocations" 16:38:32 this is for human debugging 16:39:16 hmm, someone came up with a known-plaintext attack against SSL and TLS a couple of days ago, and I only found a reference to the story today 16:39:43 and apparently known-plaintext is generally possible to pull off atm, even though it's not the easiest sort of attack to manage 16:40:01 ouch 16:40:23 oh no, SUA is deprecated 16:41:01 (apparently the usual trick is an XSS-like thing that injects a huge amount of plaintext) 16:41:47 but seriously, human-readable binary diff? anyone? no? 16:42:13 what about this: express both binaries as images, diff by eye 16:42:13 1) translate binaries to human-readable format 2) apply diff 16:42:32 I suppose that if binary = executable, disassemble + diff might work 16:42:55 ais523: Images aren't relocation-insensitive 16:42:55 as in 16:42:57 if one file is 16:42:59 A B C D E F G H 16:43:00 and the other is 16:43:03 A B C F G H 16:43:05 I want it to look like 16:43:15 A B C D E F G H 16:43:15 A B C F G H 16:43:16 as in 16:43:22 it "re-synchronises" 16:43:32 yep, getting output in that format seems rather harder 16:43:33 so that e.g. a missing field doesn't cause cascading diff errors 16:43:34 indeed 16:44:42 well, I mean, with visual diffing, you'd see it as a translation in the pixels of an image after a certain point, but not before 16:44:56 are you going to admit the exact use-case? someone might have a better idea 16:44:59 indeed, but that's still hard to diff 16:45:07 ais523: sure, my serialisation of packets is wrong 16:45:09 or my deserialisation 16:45:09 basically 16:45:13 parse | unparse =/= id 16:45:17 and I want to see where my errors are 16:45:25 (the thing I love about this channel is that "how can I do X using Y?" isn't answered "don't use Y" but "that seems weird, here's the best way I can think of..." 16:45:27 ) 16:45:32 ah, I see 16:45:33 parse | print-readable produces very reasonable output and it's gone through many debugging cycles 16:45:37 but serialisation hasn't been tested at all 16:45:40 ais523: "Came up with -- a couple of days ago" -- the known-IV weakness has been known since 2004, and was fixed in TLS 1.1 in 2006. 16:45:42 and I'm not sure where to start 16:45:46 and you're serialising to a binary format? 16:45:51 yep 16:45:54 fizzie: well, maybe people actually found a way to exploit it 16:45:57 the smallest packet dump I can get is like ten kilobytes 16:46:02 and that's what caused the stories to start 16:46:16 parse is a filter from text to binary? 16:46:27 ais523: http://eprint.iacr.org/2004/111.pdf from 2004 describes a practical way to exploit it, using a browser plugin; it's very likely to be pretty much exactly like the currently hyped thing. 16:46:57 ais523: no, parse is binary to memory-format 16:47:06 unparse is memory-to-serialisation 16:47:22 ah, I see 16:47:34 so the input itself is binary, and the output of unparse is meant to be the same binary format 16:47:42 but the file you get is different, and you're not sure how 16:47:45 yep 16:47:51 and I'm pretty sure the parse type is right 16:48:05 it's probably best to start off by seeing how many bytes are different, I think 16:48:09 and whether it's substitution/insertion/deletion 16:48:19 od with a width of 1 and diff would work for that, I think 16:48:55 elliott, convert it into 1s and 0s and then use normal diff. 16:49:02 meanwhile, the US government has recently made it illegal to patent tax loopholes 16:49:10 or possibly impossible 16:49:22 Phantom_Hoover: diff is line-based 16:49:22 It's also (to pick some nits) not exactly a known-plaintext attack. If anything, it could be sort-of called a chosen-plaintext attack. 16:49:29 Pfft. 16:49:39 Put each byte on its own line. 16:49:43 Hmm, what we really need is a diff that works on entirely freeform data, not line-based. 16:49:46 And does that resynchronisation. 16:49:53 Then you can just do it on one-line hexdumps. 16:50:02 And reformat the output to have a nice number of columns. 16:50:20 Put each byte on its own line. <-- what I was saying 16:50:32 fizzie: hmm, good point 16:50:36 that's even harder than known-plaintext 16:51:06 fizzie: I think I bought more than 5 SICPs, actually; since I still have several. I think I've given at least one as a gift, and sold 3. 16:52:00 ineiros: Have you made any money with your SICP speculation? 16:52:04 I should probably learn how to use od instead of hexdump. 16:52:17 ais523: I'm tempted to write that free-form diff even though I'm sure it exists. 16:52:38 od has a reasonably unintuitive options syntax 16:52:43 I keep checking the manpage whenever I use it 16:53:31 That's POSIX for you. 16:53:34 http://jpfo.org/ 16:53:35 I... 16:53:51 ah 16:54:16 this uh 16:54:18 this is a thing 16:54:24 Gun Control Kills Kids! 16:55:05 is this for real 16:55:09 "antis - mental problem?" 16:55:14 http://jpfo.org/images07/buster-350-pre-png-aliased.gif 16:55:21 ok this is just like the most bad thing I don't think we even have anything to discuss about this 16:55:25 next topic 16:55:41 ais523: does od have an equivalent to hexdump's -C? 16:55:46 it doesn't look like it 16:55:51 -C being "give me reasonable output" :-P 16:56:04 Oh man, od can do floats. 16:56:14 what do you mean by "reasonable"? 16:56:33 -t x1z is what duplicates most hexdump programs I've seen 16:56:57 ah, thanks 16:57:02 0113400 a0 59 7f 41 d5 99 93 01 0d 40 72 af 8d 8b a1 fd >.Y.A.....@r.....< 16:57:02 0113420 9e 40 00 00 40 44 ec af c5 ce 90 >.@EO\)...@D.....< 16:57:02 0116700 12 01 0b 40 72 b6 7d 5b b1 b7 f0 40 44 80 00 00 >...@r.}[...@D...< 16:57:04 something went wrong there... 16:57:11 (view in monospace) 16:57:12 does anyone know how to make dwarf fortress use a bigger font? 16:57:35 super-mousewheelup? 16:57:37 ais523: -w 1 seems /enlarge/ the number of bytes per line... 16:57:44 ais523: also, it's actually scroll wheel up 16:57:49 so you were almost right 16:57:56 heh 16:58:04 super-mousewheelup is my keybinding for telling the WM to zoom in 16:58:08 oh, I just needed to omit the space between flag and argument, sigh 16:58:13 fizzie: I think I paid 20€ for my own copy, and it may be that I asked 20 € for the copies I sold, so I guess that I'm at least even. 16:58:31 ais523: i think that doesn't work 16:58:43 "Adding a z suffix to any type displays printable characters at the end of each output line." <- whoa, I didn't know it did that. 16:58:49 cheater: well, you're probably using a different compositor to me 16:58:53 is cheater actually disregarding my correct answer just because it's from me 16:59:07 cheater: elliott suggested mousewheelup without super, I don't know if it works or not 16:59:18 there was a correct answer from him? 16:59:22 let me read the scrollback 16:59:30 Unfortunately the "z" in od is not in POSIX od. 16:59:30 oh, diff -y is cool 16:59:32 that actually needs announcement 17:00:04 no, his answer was not correct 17:00:07 it was just a troll 17:00:10 lol 17:00:18 * elliott adjusts his dwarf fortress font size a bit 17:00:23 i so mad 17:00:35 mouse wheel up makes it smaller, mouse wheel down cannot make it any bigger than it is already 17:01:09 then one character should fill about a fifth of your screen so I'd say it's big enough 17:01:58 -!- sllide has joined. 17:02:42 ais523: thanks, I think this will let me pinpoint the solution 17:02:48 diff -y --suppress-common-lines is great 17:03:01 what does --suppress-common-lines do? or -y, for that matter? 17:03:14 -y is side-by-side view 17:03:17 --suppress-common-lines does what it says on the tin 17:03:22 yep, fair enough 17:03:30 I'm not entirely sure why it's in diff, but oh well 17:03:34 do the context options interact with that in any way? 17:03:38 not sure 17:05:01 hmm, now what I really need is this annotated with the pretty parsed versions of the packets :) 17:05:06 maybe I should just teach Wireshark the Minecraft protocol 17:05:19 mchosting again? 17:05:56 fizzie: Yes, I'm just converting the test program to iterIO and checking that my serialisation... you know, works. 17:05:59 It seems the answer is "almost". 17:06:25 http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/games/video/minecraft/minecraft-dissector.html "Minecraft Dissector for WireShark" 17:06:29 It probably: sucks. 17:06:35 I don't think I'm going to try that. 17:06:36 Usually that sort of things tend to. 17:06:49 "'m using it to develop a Perl library (Minecraft::Client) for speaking the Minecraft protocol. It's forked from Scott Brooks's dissector. Scott provided a great starting point, but it hadn't been updated to the Beta." 17:12:15 elliott: I don't really see how it would be statistically likely for the n-grams to generate an existing word. 17:12:27 as each word only contributes one to the frequency of each of its n-grams. 17:19:37 http://www.lotrfanshop.com/lotrshop/navel-rings.asp 17:19:39 I.................... 17:19:47 "Artist's conception of soul joining the fertilized egg at conception." --Conservapedia caption 17:20:26 elliott, what page? 17:20:32 http://www.conservapedia.com/Human_reproduction 17:20:37 Spiritual aspects section is best. 17:20:51 "Humans are not able to reproduce alone by budding, parthenogenesis, or self-cloning as some species are capable of." 17:20:53 l a m e 17:21:44 OK, that is the best artist's conception. 17:22:48 It would make a good album cover. 17:23:29 http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/sdarrin/My-Lego-Sets/7251.jpg 17:23:35 Oh my god that expression. 17:24:04 What are you even doing. 17:24:42 help its tv tropes 17:25:33 ais523: it turns out that this od diff method is great for getting an initial lead but useless for going further than that :D 17:25:44 sounds about right 17:25:55 so I'm not sure where to go next, really 17:25:57 What have you broken this time? 17:27:25 `pastelogs thou shalt not 17:27:45 ... ... ... 17:27:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15122 17:28:00 Thou shalt not be impatient with thy logs. 17:28:06 :P 17:28:45 "However, there has never been any evidence presented that the soul can enter the body at any time later than conception." lololol 17:28:49 fizzie: mchost's serialisation. 17:29:04 Oh, not de- this time? 17:29:17 Gregor: As opposed to all the evidence presented that the soul can enter the body at conception :P 17:29:34 fizzie: Yeah, I think de- has been pretty thoroughly tested by this point. 17:29:41 elliott: EXTENSIVE LITERATURE SUGGESTS 17:29:45 As opposed to , which hasn't been tested at all. 17:29:48 (Prefix words: problematic.) 17:29:58 elliott: -? 17:30:02 ais523: ? 17:30:04 I guess that would wokr 17:30:04 "The ultimate act of intimacy serves to unite the male and female gametes, the sperm and egg, respectively." // this is pretty great too 17:30:05 work 17:30:16 Sure sounds ultimately intimate, dunnit. 17:35:56 `logurl 2006-08-08 17:35:58 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2006-08-08 17:36:12 logurl: the best. 17:36:18 Gregor: I already logurl'd that :P 17:36:49 Uhh, if you did, you did it secretly :P 17:38:38 Yep :P 17:40:03 Why don't we have applicative-based (de-)serialisation isomorphism combinator things yet again 17:41:42 Talk:Human Reproduction is almost as good as the page. 17:42:15 Soul Conception by Human Reproduction 17:42:15 http://conservapedia.com/images/9/93/Soul_Conception.jpg 17:42:19 Out December on Conservative Records 17:42:26 X-D 17:42:50 elliott: so I was thinking for functions on discrete signals it would be best to pass the sample rate as an implicit parameter, yes? 17:42:54 regarding signal processing in Haskell. 17:43:11 or just as a record field? 17:43:20 Implicit parameters are a misfeature and should never be used; nobody at all wants them to stay in the language, and they've been used approximately once. 17:43:32 I DESPERATELY want to shoop that image to make it "crisper" but also shoop in that weird creepy happy face that people like to shoop into things. 17:43:33 I feel the implicit parameter would be more convenient though... 17:43:42 There's no reason to fix the sample rate at a set value; there's no reason it cannot vary within the same set of data. [(Time,a)] where a is the value being sampled captures that perfectly. 17:43:58 okay 17:44:02 If there is a fixed sample rate, it can be computed from the constant difference between each Time. 17:44:32 I note that the continuous (Time -> a) and discrete [(Time,a)] signal models are exactly the models of Behaviour and Event in FRP. 17:44:49 Gregor: Which weird creepy happy face? 17:44:51 :awesome:? 17:45:10 elliott: Apparently that's the name for it, according to google :P 17:45:11 The trollface? 17:45:18 It's creepy and happy. 17:45:23 FSVO happy. 17:45:26 elliott: also you were saying that there would be no need to convert continuous to discrete or vice versa if differing signal representations shared a common interface 17:45:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:45:29 Also Gregor didn't specify "abominable", so... 17:45:32 but I'm at a loss as to what interface that would be. 17:45:37 http://conservapedia.com/ADA_(programming_language) ;; they miscapitalised Ada. Burn. 17:45:56 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/awesome-face-epic-smiley <-- this guy 17:45:57 CakeProphet: Build them with separate interfaces, find the operations common to both, define laws for them, create typeclass 17:45:58 "It is equal in power to Java and is especially popular for programming embedded systems." 17:46:06 Or just keep it monomorphic if it works. 17:46:15 awesome-face-epic-smiley <- augh 17:46:30 elliott: Don't looka me :P 17:46:53 Anyway, that on the egg :P 17:47:08 The program, and detailed technical commentary, appeared in the paper "Sketch of the Analytical Engine Invented by Charles Babbage"[1] that Ada wrote in 1843. The program itself has been reproduced in the "sidebar" on page 79[2]. It can also be seen in the original paper. First there is a list of the six input and output variables that are used: V1, V2, V3, V21, V22 and V23. And the temporary variables V4 through V13. In modern terminology in a s 17:47:08 trongly typed language such as C++, we would write something like: 17:47:08 int V1, V2, V3; // inputs 17:47:08 int V21, V22, V23; // outputs 17:47:10 int V4, V5, V6, V7, V8, V9, V10, V11, V12, V13; // temps 17:47:13 No Conservapedia stop no. 17:47:16 This cannot end well. 17:47:35 (She used the old-fashioned multiply and divide signs "[X sign]" and "[dots over - sign]". These seem quaint by today's standards, but they were the symbols that people used at the time. Neither the 026 keypunch nor the ASCII character set had been invented.) 17:47:42 So old-fashioned, we use them in our schools today. 17:48:00 Or has America standardised on the asterisk multiplication symbol and the slash divisor 17:48:00 We use them until we start doing algebra, that is. 17:48:05 Phantom_Hoover: Note "schools". 17:48:13 Conservapedia: the best way to learn how to program? 17:48:51 [[conservapedia:Ada Lovelace]] is disappointingly light on THAT WIMMEN CAN'T HAVE DONE PROGRAMMED IT SHE MUST HAVE GOT HER HUSBAND TO DO IT. 17:48:52 elliott: wasn't Ada invented before capital letters? so it would have been written ADA at the time? 17:48:56 *before lowercase letters 17:48:59 "Category: Women" 17:49:01 Good categorisation. 17:49:24 ais523: :) 17:49:28 http://conservapedia.com/Evolutionary_algorithm 17:49:32 elliott: on conservapedia America is the best place with the best opinions. 17:49:33 Phantom_Hoover: oh no. 17:49:33 It delivers what it promises. 17:49:53 Evolutionary algorithms can be seen as an experimental test of Darwin's theory of evolution, and their eventual failure can be seen as a refutation of that theory[Citation Needed]. 17:49:54 :') 17:49:56 thank god for integer programming 17:50:02 Integerllient design 17:51:01 I wonder how many contribute to conservapedia as a parody of conservative opinions. 17:51:27 CakeProphet, as a RationalWiki veteran, I can confirm that most of them do. 17:51:48 what an utterly bizzare passtime 17:51:58 Satire: So WEIRD. 17:52:04 Swift. What was WITH that dude? Why did he even write about eating babies. 17:52:10 He should have wrote about the virtues of not eating babies. 17:52:13 That would be less bizarre. 17:53:09 elliott: note that spending large amounts of time contributing to a resource of information with a conservative viewpoint entirely for satirical purposes is quite different from satire itself 17:53:25 I was not saying satire is weird. 17:56:37 didn't Conservapedia famously threaten to sue trolls? 17:56:40 did they ever go through with it? 17:57:18 ais523: Their "Commandments" state all sorts of threatening legal things if you do bad things. 17:57:25 "Unproductive activity, such as 90% talk page edits and only 10% quality edits to Conservapedia articles, may result in blocking of the account.[7] See the Guidelines for more detail." 17:57:28 -!- augur has joined. 17:57:29 Metapedians: literally the devil. 17:57:55 they'll probably end up with their infrastructure suffering 17:58:11 ais523: They don't have any infrastructure. 17:58:26 dadaopedia is the best of the hypothetical opinionated encyclopedias. 17:58:34 so how do they, say, decide what to delete? 17:58:40 *dadapedia? 17:58:56 CakeProphet: Is that where everyone is really boring and tries to ~approach art~ by being ~random~? 17:59:09 ais523: Fiat, warring, arguments, personal threats, cabals 17:59:14 So, just like Wikipedia, but smaller 17:59:27 heh 17:59:46 elliott: have you never heard of Bjorn? 17:59:47 elliott: not quite. 18:00:07 ais523: That didn't approach art, that /was/ art. 18:00:12 THE BEST ART. 18:00:14 elliott: dadaism isn't really "lol random" 18:01:06 CakeProphet: It is when filtered through the internet's awful lens that decides to take, like, discordianism, dadaism, and about ten other things, and mix them together into the most boring concept imaginable. 18:10:50 oh, well yes. 18:10:56 see: uncyclopedia, for that 18:13:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:13:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:13:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:13:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:14:35 didn't Conservapedia famously threaten to sue trolls? 18:14:39 Better than that. 18:14:59 They threatened to report vandals to the FBI and charge them under anti-somethingorother laws. 18:15:30 hahahaha 18:15:37 nice. 18:20:12 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:20:18 Hello 18:20:30 hi 18:20:43 hi 18:25:12 elliott: did you see the extreme negative code documentation page via proggit? 18:25:22 * elliott checks 18:25:44 I would comment on it, but can't think of an appropriate comment 18:26:19 #N If we don't require 'based', we can't use Based:: module 18:26:20 require 'based' 18:26:20 #N If we don't require 'synqa', we can't use Synqa:: module 18:26:20 require 'synqa' 18:26:20 #N If we don't require 'digest/sha2', we can't use Digest::SHA256 18:26:20 require 'digest/sha2' 18:26:22 I'm sick of it already 18:26:34 #N Without :uploaddry, the only way to see what files are going to be uploaded and/or deleted by :upload is to actually call :upload and do the actual uploading and deleting. 18:26:38 cool, it's like writing the code you were going to write 18:26:41 but in a really awkward tense 18:26:48 and without any sort of checking by the computer 18:27:06 yep, I think it's the wrong level of granularity 18:27:19 some of the comments are useful, but you're going to mentally filter them with that many useless 18:28:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:29:47 "So far, #reddit has increased my daily traffic 30000%, and still growing. Just under 3000 hits today." -- embedded twitter feed of someone with a post from reddit 18:29:49 a whole three thousand hits 18:30:18 If all my facebook friends visited a page twice, it would have more hits than that 18:30:42 elliott: rather than their usual 10 18:30:58 Ngevd: how would you get all your facebook friends to do that? 18:31:19 ais523: no, usual one tenth 18:31:19 I think 18:31:22 oh, hmm 18:31:24 percentages are hard 18:31:35 ais523: With great difficulty 18:31:36 Ngevd: quick, get all your facebook friends to visit that blog post twice 18:31:42 it's for science 18:32:23 Link? 18:32:26 If all my Google+ friends were to visit a page twice, I'd have 8 hits. And I might even be able to convince them. 18:32:34 http://poita.org/index.php/blog/1-latest-news/67-thoughts-on-immutability-in-d, it's boring but WHO CARES 18:32:37 It's for science. 18:32:39 Sciency science. 18:32:44 SPECULATIVE science. 18:33:57 SOCIAL SCIENCE 18:34:14 No no no SPECULATIVE science. 18:34:23 We need someone to catch the reference. At least Gregor. Come on, anyone? 18:34:34 if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all 18:34:45 whats facebook friends 18:35:01 Something I have way to many of, monqy 18:35:41 One thousand eight hundred and twenty five 18:35:44 `addquote if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all 18:35:45 678) if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all 18:35:53 elliott: it's not that good a quote 18:35:58 I liked it 18:36:44 `quote 18:36:46 378) the big issue with category theory is that pretty much everything forms a category 18:36:52 `quote 18:36:54 402) Top universities now employ people to watch infomercials all day to find the latest mysteries. 18:36:57 `quote 18:36:59 17) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. 18:37:02 `quote 18:37:03 181) you should be eating corpses more 18:37:06 `quote 18:37:08 296) I'm a bit 'tarded. 18:37:11 That was one alternate universe quote, quality is guaranteed. 18:37:12 `quote 18:37:13 What, that one isterrible. 18:37:14 275) are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full 18:37:16 `delquote 296 18:37:18 ​*poof* 18:37:29 heh, I like 275 18:37:32 `quote 18:37:33 481) oklopol: Why do you have so much experience with hoop-and-stick? :P Gregor: my fetish: learning pointless skills 18:37:38 `quote 18:37:40 308) file:///home/fis/src/chainlance/tapestats.png -- yes, I think it's nice that way when the edge is always the opponent's flag. 18:37:57 why is that in the qdb? 18:38:05 some innuendo I haven't spotted? 18:38:19 Ot 18:38:27 It's just mocking my file:/// URI. 18:38:27 ais523: linking to file:/// 18:38:33 ah, I see 18:38:33 MOCKING. 18:38:37 I was even tempted to visit that URL 18:38:43 MOOOOCKING. 18:38:46 `quote 18:38:47 I clicked open but nothing happened :( 18:38:48 347) elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet 18:38:55 my client didn't autolink it 18:38:56 `quote 18:38:58 143) alise, marble marbelus 18:39:04 I still stand behind my opinion in 247 18:39:06 *347 18:39:07 "Firefox can't find the file at /home/fis/src/chainlance/tapestats.png." :( :( 18:39:09 `quote 247 18:39:10 247) I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi 18:39:11 fizzie: rip 18:39:29 -NickServ- Last failed attempt from: Elliott!~3lli0tt@cpc1-woki6-2-0-cust904.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com on Sep 22 14:31:14 2011. 18:39:31 DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 18:39:42 I need to figure out what nick that guy is using and punish them. 18:40:02 elliott: someone else trying to log into your account? 18:40:05 3lli0tt 18:40:08 ~3lli0tt is a really awful username 18:40:09 ais523: repeatedly 18:40:15 this ain't yer username, kiddo >:( 18:40:22 I should start using elliott_ and /whoising elliott periodically to catch them 18:40:32 or just set up a bot to ghost elliott constantly if it's not logged in 18:40:37 that's better than the thirty second grace period 18:40:41 five seconds, bam, ghosted 18:41:17 hmm, it seems I mentally pronounce 3lli0tt as "threlliott" 18:41:32 :D 18:41:32 http://www.youtube.com/user/3lli0tt <- same guy?-) 18:41:33 wow in addition to elliottcable and elliottt there is also an elliot 18:41:34 -!- elliott has changed nick to threlliott. 18:41:52 I'm not sure whether my pronunciation of it ends with one or two t's 18:41:57 because they're pronounced the same 18:42:33 fizzie: this morning i saw thor pawning his hammer at the store 18:42:52 this is the maamazing vidoe... 18:43:05 what is htis......................... 18:43:06 help 18:44:05 wow what 18:54:25 ?hoogle read 18:54:25 Prelude read :: Read a => String -> a 18:54:25 Text.Read read :: Read a => String -> a 18:54:25 module Text.Read 18:54:26 meh 18:54:28 ?hoogle Read a => q 18:54:29 Did you mean: :: q /count=20 18:54:29 Prelude undefined :: a 18:54:29 Test.QuickCheck.Batch bottom :: a 18:54:34 ?hoogle Read a => String -> m a 18:54:34 Prelude readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a 18:54:35 System.IO readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a 18:54:36 yay 18:54:37 Network.CGI.Protocol maybeRead :: Read a => String -> Maybe a 18:55:05 :t reads 18:55:06 forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] 19:04:32 wow, unexpected: tPCI release the rules for the 2012 Pokémon Video Game Championships, competitive Pokémon players actually like them 19:04:40 both halves are unexpected for me 19:09:53 I need a CLOTH TAPE MEASURE 19:10:20 Y'know, traditional monolithic kernels provide a very *strange* form of abstraction. 19:10:54 They present an environment that is both very low-level *and* has little to do with what common machines actually do. 19:14:31 I mean, they do crazy things like present an idea of memory allocation that is *not* in terms of "Place a page in my address space at address foo, kthx" 19:17:11 And the fuck is with files? It's such a painfully low-level scheme, and yet the low-level abstraction that would make sense would be something along the lines of allocating disk blocks to do with as you will. 19:17:39 I was hating on Unix, files before it was cool. 19:17:58 threlliott: This rant is provided by me trying to get a basic kernel running. 19:18:11 And wondering "why the *fuck* does anyone do anything like this". 19:18:23 Kernels are also an outdated notion, if you're going to whine. 19:19:06 @ always and forever 19:19:11 Amen. 19:19:30 Well, yeah, ideally a "kernel" would be a startup routine which would start a scheduler. 19:19:33 The @ of Now and Forever. 19:20:46 pikhq: Schedulers are also relatively obsolete, at least in the sense of having one and only one. Usually you'd want some entity using timers to manage the event chains and switch out the operational code of entities underneath its control, but there's no reason a privileged entity might not decide to disable interrupts, shut down the other cores, and manually co-opt out. 19:21:09 All a startup routine should do is restore the previous state; choices like schedulers are a matter of initial configuration. 19:21:16 (This is also simpler than writing a kernel.) 19:22:03 threlliott: Note I didn't say *the* scheduler. 19:22:24 Why should the startup routine concern itself with whether any scheduler exists at all? 19:22:32 It is trivially possible to have a valid configuration without one. 19:22:43 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:22:47 (Say one privileged, atomic entity drawing garbage over the screen forever.) 19:23:30 > ('a','b') 19:23:31 ('a','b') 19:23:42 Well, if you've got orthogonal persistance going (which you probably should)... Then it's more a matter of basic startup followed by restoring registers and jumping to the instruction pointer. 19:24:24 Or, more high-level (because why should your programs all be straight machine code?), just calling the continuation. 19:25:59 The startup code should just call a continuation, which will most likely set up persistence code from a fixed (or easily-locatable) location on the disk, and then call another continuation, which will result in the entire system state being restored as part of its execution. 19:26:03 Anyways. Traditional kernel design *seems* to basically be "write a support library for your programming language of choice, write some basic utilities, interrupt handlers, and drivers, and then hand userspace a small handful of comically low-level interfaces into this" 19:27:33 -!- threlliott has changed nick to elliott. 19:28:15 The kernel gets its own damned runtime library, simply because running machine code directly necessitates that there be no more advanced interfaces between the kernel and the program other than, basically, the standard UNIX complement. 19:28:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:29:53 And there's rather a lot of work that goes into maintaining this complete seperation, too. I mean, jeeze, a typical kernel maintains a page table per process, and switches them and entirely flushes the TLB on task switch. 19:30:26 Simply because there's no other way of providing sane guarantees with a machine code environment. 19:30:43 -!- tiffnya has changed nick to tiffany. 19:31:04 -!- tiffany has changed nick to tiffany|away. 19:31:16 -!- tiffany|away has changed nick to tiffany. 19:33:08 This is really considered evidence of anything? I've heard Mark Levin use the Spanish-inflected pronunciation of Sonia Sotomayor's name (so tow my OR rather than so tow MY er), but nobody would claim that proves he's Catholic or Hispanic. Golgaronok 23:55, 9 April 2010 (EDT) 19:33:12 Pronunciation shows an enormous amount about someone's views and history. Obama doesn't use the American pronunciation, and this is telling, since no one else in the public sphere pronounces it in the muslim way but Obama. DouglasA 00:15, 10 April 2010 (EDT) 19:33:16 bahahaha 19:33:26 conservapedia is so entertaining. 19:33:40 is this for real 19:33:50 yes. 19:33:50 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but it's for conservatives, so they'll either be rich, or act as if they're rich in every situation despite not being rich. 19:34:10 DouglasA... he was a parodist, I think. 19:34:11 monqy: Obama apparently pronounces Pakistan "the muslim way" 19:34:26 Phantom_Hoover: it's quite convincing and hilarious. :D 19:34:32 reminds me of this newspaper quip i read that american poor don't see themselves as poor, but as temporarily inconvenienced millionaires 19:34:43 lolwat 19:34:53 Hmm, RW doesn't list him as one, actually. 19:34:54 well the conservative poor, anyway 19:34:59 Impressive, considering there's not a single "Muslim way", particularly for a country as linguistically diverse as Pakistan. 19:35:00 oerjan: I was inspired by that, admittedly. :p 19:35:06 no, american poor see themselves as poor. american middle class see themselves as poor. 19:35:23 ...generally 19:36:06 CakeProphet: the idea here being to explain them supporting the rich by them having some idea that eventually they were going to be rich too. i think. 19:36:14 oh... 19:36:34 >_< 19:36:44 "american dream" turned into a dogma, was my impression. 19:37:07 I blame Horatio Alger. 19:37:15 well they support the rich because rich people (aka conservative politicians) use a batshit stupid retoric they can understand. 19:40:46 what's the usual path for per-user webpages on a UNIXy-setup server? 19:40:48 like, conservatives get poor people votes because they appeal to religion/intolerance. 19:40:52 that is, the in-/home version of /var/www? 19:46:56 ais523: public_html 19:47:01 it's kind of gross 19:55:04 elliott: thanks 19:55:17 it seems to be the easiest way to manage what I'm doing for my job atm 19:55:37 as it exists on the University computers 19:55:53 atm, there's just a .html file there full of PHP tags 19:56:00 I'm not sure if it's being served as-is or run through PHP first 19:56:02 * ais523 checks 19:56:22 as-is, it seems 19:56:23 how awful 20:02:40 What. What. What. 20:02:49 CERN has apparently observed particles moving >C. 20:03:20 indeed, they're not sure what's going on either 20:03:34 it's definitely not a statistical fluctuation, they repeated the experiment 15 thousand times to make sure 20:03:38 hahahaha 20:03:42 they're hoping it's some sort of systematic error 20:03:42 `addquote it's definitely not a statistical fluctuation, they repeated the experiment 15 thousand times to make sure 20:03:44 678) it's definitely not a statistical fluctuation, they repeated the experiment 15 thousand times to make sure 20:03:49 the best kind of excess 20:05:23 I really hope that it turns out faster than light travel is possible, it's exactly like Star Trek, all current physics has to be replaced by technobabble... 20:05:32 Then we just need Zefram Cochrane and the plot is WELL IN ORDER. 20:05:40 apparently neutrinos arrived 60ns sooner than should have been possible, experimental error margin is believed to be 10ns 20:05:41 OK so technically we missed some wars and shit but who cares. 20:05:50 and if they can run the experiment 15000 times in a row, presumably it's quite easy to reproduce 20:06:51 I'm not sure I'd go with "easy". 20:06:59 "Possible to do consistently", perhaps. 20:07:01 Request citation. 20:07:13 "If this is confirmed, this is one of the most important moments in science and human history. This should be at the top of the front page for days. 20:07:13 Instead it will probably be out paced by a picture of someone's cat. 20:07:13 EDIT: just occurred to me, faster then light particles could have interesting consequences in the field of data transmission. something to think about" 20:07:22 reddit commentors: So stupid. 20:07:24 Phantom_Hoover: the citation's to a Slashdot comment 20:07:39 "HEY GUYS THIS IS FTL TRAVEL THIS IS HUGE. EDIT: Whoaa, if you could go faster than light you could... transfer data... faster than light..." 20:07:59 so how long is light meant to take to go 732km, anyway? 20:08:28 something like 0 20:08:31 0.0024168918 seconds 20:08:33 on a global scale 20:08:39 wow that's fast. light is fast. 20:08:55 (methodology: google "732km in lightseconds") 20:08:55 light isn't fast enough! 20:08:56 wow, milliseconds? that's slower than I expected 20:08:58 ais523, is that how large CERN is? 20:09:13 ais523: Light is actually pretty slow, in honesty. 20:09:21 Phantom_Hoover: no, they were sending a neutrino beam to another lab to see how many neutrinos spontaneously changed to other sorts of neutrinos 20:09:25 and they arrived early 20:09:25 > 300000/732 20:09:26 409.8360655737705 20:09:29 ais523: Consider that a decent chunk of Internet latency is from the speed of light. 20:09:32 ais523: I mean, consider that at one point, university-to-university internet was getting at half the maximum theoretical light limit. 20:09:44 (When that latency vs. bandwidth article was written.) 20:09:45 I failed at maths somewhere there. 20:09:46 Though most of it is just hardware and software sucking. 20:09:48 elliott: was it using optical fibre? 20:09:49 And that was definitely a perceptible latency. 20:09:54 ais523: I think copper? Might have been wrong. 20:10:07 > 732/300000 20:10:08 2.44e-3 20:10:15 ouch, if it was copper, that seems like an inconvenient thing to use 20:10:18 Point is, light is slow enough to create very noticable latency for us day-to-day. 20:10:26 We can't even IRC to Mars :( 20:10:54 The moon is a much better target for colonisation because it would be IRCable. 20:11:27 Yeah, the latency would be a *little* high, but TCP would still work just fine. 20:11:29 you could text Mars 20:11:31 Hmm, this is interesting indeed. 20:11:46 pikhq: TCP can handle stupidly high latencies easily; most applications will stop waiting, though 20:11:51 ais523: not with the kind of latency modern SMS users expect 20:11:55 email, sure 20:12:01 but irc is a basic human right and all :P 20:12:02 http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/ko638/if_the_particle_discovered_as_cern_is_proven/ 20:12:14 ais523: TCP stacks generally time out after a few minutes. 20:12:20 the other weird thing is that the particle alleged to have gone faster than light wasn't even a new one 20:12:35 it was a neutrino 20:12:41 Yeah, it's a bit strange that they saw this in something that's at least somewhat well-understood. 20:12:42 pikhq: they don't /have/ to, though 20:12:46 what is our actual light roundtrip latency to the moon? 20:12:47 that's just an arbitrary decision 20:12:48 I cba to google it 20:12:52 or W|A it 20:12:53 or whatever 20:12:54 elliott: it's about a second 20:13:04 that's not bad 20:13:09 you could even browse the web like that 20:13:13 although it'd be a bit painful 20:13:15 elliott, the moon is like .25 million miles away or something. 20:13:25 Yeah, I've used the Internet on higher-latency links. 20:13:28 elliott: you mean pages normally load within a second for you? 20:13:44 I'm used to high bandwidth but high latency too 20:13:52 ais523: Um, it would take a second for the TCP connection to initialise. 20:13:55 ph 20:13:57 oops 20:14:04 ais523: yes 20:14:08 well 20:14:08 elliott: so what's the speed of fast? 20:14:09 ais523, looks like it should be ~20 seconds. 20:14:10 Sorry, more than a second. 20:14:11 one to three seconds 20:14:15 loading anything in Chrome takes minutes 20:14:20 searches definitely less than a second 20:14:22 *Chromium 20:14:25 although that might be an issue 20:14:29 ais523: /something/ is wrong with your configuration 20:14:34 I only use it for testing websites, and for when I have to log into Google 20:14:46 (I used to use Epiphany for that, but Chromium seems like the perfect browser for the purpose) 20:14:57 I would live on a terraformed moon, it sounds like fun 20:15:10 (what does it say about me that I mistrust Google enough to let them store cookies only on a browser I don't use for anything else) 20:15:22 elliott, other than the bit where a terraformed moon is impossible. 20:15:34 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/TerraformedMoonFromEarth.jpg 20:15:37 DISPROVEN BY WIKIPEDIA IMAGES 20:15:44 I like how they basically just took... a livable planet. 20:15:47 And called it the moon. 20:15:56 And then tried to emulate craters. 20:15:57 So bad. 20:16:05 But anyway, see shavera's response in that link I have and — wait we have neutrino beams now? 20:16:19 Phantom_Hoover: why is a terraformed moon impossible? semantics pedantry? or something else? 20:16:36 Phantom_Hoover: Particle accelerators can consistently produce neutrino beams. 20:16:41 You can certainly create a liveable environment on the moon, even if it's not terraforming 20:16:49 Might have to be under a dome though 20:16:51 producing a neutrino beam isn't hard for particle physics experimenters 20:16:55 it's detecting them that's hard 20:16:57 ais523, because I'm very sure you can't have a breathable atmosphere with only 1/6G to hold it down. 20:17:00 as neutrinos tend not to interact with things much 20:17:15 Phantom_Hoover: terraforming has nothing to do with breathable atmosphere, right? 20:17:23 Argh, I'm irrationally leaning on the side of the particles actually going FTL. 20:17:27 Just because I want them to be. 20:17:27 ais523, it's kind of a prerequisite? 20:17:27 you could just use domes or something to keep the atmosphere in 20:17:41 ais523, not terraforming. 20:17:50 I believe terraforming is the process of making a planet habitable. 20:17:54 elliott: well, I take this as evidence for the theory that physics is being made up by some deity over time in order to screw with scientists 20:17:57 Phantom_Hoover: what if we lined just underneath the surface of the moon with graviton-infused metals. 20:17:58 What then. 20:18:08 whenever they run an experiment, it's a case of "shall I make this consistent with existing theories? nah" 20:18:11 elliott, you'd win like 50 Nobel prizes. 20:18:20 or sometimes "yes", which is probably the default, I guess 20:18:20 ais523: Reminds me of a certain Fine Structure chapter. (PH will now mock me for not having finished it yet and probably accidentally spoil me in the process.) 20:18:25 What about enough atmosphere for plant life? 20:18:30 Phantom_Hoover: They would be the best Nobel prizes. 20:18:38 elliott, MITCH IS ACTUALLY SANTA 20:18:42 I knew it. 20:18:46 Does he kill Dumbledore? 20:19:02 No, he doesn't kill anyone. 20:19:10 Ching kills the Easter Bunny, though. 20:19:20 Voldemort is Tyler Durden 20:19:31 http://ompldr.org/vYWhoNg 20:19:32 im not 20:19:33 good 20:19:33 at this 20:19:57 i guess i am stuck with help guy now 20:20:19 wow this is disturbing 20:20:34 "As has been discussed here quite a bit by those smarter than I, the speed of light isn't just the fastest thing in the universe, like a world record. It's the literal maximum. It's what happens when you take your rpg stats and instead of putting most of them in 'time' and a handful in 'distance', as most matter does, you just dump everything into 'distance' and don't give a damn about your internal clock. It's the maxim 20:20:34 um speed that information itself can travel through the universe, which, if broken, can upset the laws of causality. I can't fathom what would happen if this result stands up to scrutiny." 20:20:41 This is the best explanation of relativity ever. 20:21:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 20:22:38 oh right, the Pirate Party got 15 seats on the Berlin council 20:22:58 and they hadn't expected to get nearly that many, that was all the candidates they'd put up for vote 20:23:09 (it's a proportional-representation system) 20:24:23 fuck alsa, I'm unable to figure out how to make it use dmix for one output device but not use dmix for another one 20:24:41 maybe I'll just go OSSv4, but that sounds like a lot of work 20:25:11 jack is good. 20:25:15 CakeProphet: ... 20:25:17 :) 20:25:49 CakeProphet: I use jack only when I'm running programs that benefit from it. Such as sound recording programs. 20:26:17 CakeProphet: anyway it doesn't solve my main issue: one of my sound cards have proper hw mixer, the other one does not 20:26:25 Is nobody going to mentioned that JACK doesn't actually go directly to hardware 20:26:35 elliott: there is that too 20:26:46 only alsa and oss do that 20:27:14 strangely, Linux sound has mostly just-worked for me, with the exception that Pulse sometimes needs restarting for any sound to work, and that ALSA used to have issues detecting headphones 20:28:04 I thought jack at least allowed you to route things to different devices and such. 20:28:08 `addquote The moon is a much better target for colonisation because it would be IRCable. 20:28:10 679) The moon is a much better target for colonisation because it would be IRCable. 20:28:13 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:28:16 another issue: nwn uses oss, and doesn't respect my default sound card as given in /etc/asound.conf (not surprising). No clue how to configure where ALSA's OSS emulation goes 20:28:38 obviously I wasn't suggesting he /replace/ alsa with jack. that wouldn't make any sense. 20:29:11 ais523: I don't use pulse, it is horrible. Especially since it tends to conflict badly with jack in my experience 20:29:43 IMO pulse doesn't really offer anything worth that extra layer. 20:30:01 I don't need per-program volume levels for example. 20:30:06 I've found per-application volume controls really valuable 20:30:13 mostly to balance Flash against Totem 20:30:31 ais523: why would you listen to two things at once? 20:30:46 you might switch between them a lot 20:30:54 hm 20:30:57 true 20:31:02 and it's important to me to get the volume control range usable 20:31:10 I don't want the usable range of the volume control to be all at one end of the scale 20:31:28 ais523: well for me it varies widely what is reasonable between my pro audio headphones and my cheap creative headset 20:31:31 especially because I use both headphones and speakers, which have different sound output levels at the same on-computer volumes 20:32:11 I mean, I can not use the same volume settings. It would destroy my hearing when switching from the cheap headset to the good headphones 20:33:25 ais523: oh that too, my laptop has widely different level on speaker and headphones. I need near max when using the built in speakers, though I avoid that, terrible sound quality. And near mute when using my pro audio headphones. 20:33:39 the cheap headset: somewhere in between 20:33:43 very weird that 20:35:01 "[ALSA has] Better support for MIDI devices. With OSS you will have to use a software synthesizer such as Timidity or Fluidsynth. " according https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OSS, if that is true, OSSv4 is not an option for me. I need hardware midi 20:35:25 why do you need hardware MIDI? 20:35:28 it's a strange thing to randomly need 20:35:49 ais523: because I have a keyboard I attach to the hw midi port on my PCI sound card 20:35:56 ah, OK 20:36:41 ais523: oh and midi over USB is bad in my experience, USB has higher latency 20:37:00 midi is in general bad. 20:37:13 CakeProphet: hardware midi with midi cable works just fine 20:37:17 when I compose, it's using physical piano + rosegarden for entering the tune into a computer when I'm done 20:37:18 never had any issues with that 20:37:20 via computer keyboard 20:37:40 ais523: I just hook up rosegarden to my electrical piano by MIDI 20:38:10 no I mean the protocol itself is limiting. 20:38:20 it works fine for responding to keypresses and stuff though. 20:38:30 yeah 20:40:07 but as a general purpose "musical instrument digital interface" it is lacking in some regards. 20:40:23 right 20:40:33 CakeProphet: it works for what I use it for though. 20:40:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:54 OSC is a little better 20:42:08 OSC? 20:42:15 yes, but it's not as widely supported. 20:42:20 never heard of it 20:42:25 what does it stand for? 20:42:33 open sound control. 20:42:40 it runs over ethernet. 20:42:46 eh 20:43:07 well, it can run on other things 20:43:17 CakeProphet: that sounds like a terrible idea for a real time application like sound in a studio recording environment 20:43:46 why's that? 20:43:54 ethernet is fairly fast. 20:44:37 CakeProphet: ethernet offers no guarantees on the latency. If you use a switched topology the switch may or may not delay your packet in internal buffers for example. 20:44:44 hardware support is kind of limited, but a lot of high-end devices support it, such as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur_Input_Device 20:46:50 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:46:58 And common Ethernet devices have rather absurd buffering, adding further latency. 20:47:15 that too yes 20:47:17 And the default buffering on Linux is itself absurd. 20:47:19 but if it's connected directly to your computer you wouldn't have these problems would you? 20:47:21 Networking sucks. 20:47:22 oh.. 20:47:41 The far-too-high buffering *is layered*. 20:47:47 *sigh* 20:48:03 MIDI at least offers some real time guarantees. 20:48:06 does changing the buffer mode on the socket not fix this I gather? 20:48:27 CakeProphet: not for the hardware buffering at least. 20:48:51 That can change the kernel buffering. 20:49:15 actually OSC is typically transmitted over USB from input device to computer. 20:49:30 but can also go over network. 20:50:06 the protocol is far more flexible though. 20:50:29 -!- kmc has joined. 20:50:44 USB has inferior latency compared to MIDI again. Just look at MIDI over USB. Only usable as a toy really. 20:51:18 The advantages of OSC over MIDI are primarily speed and throughput; internet connectivity; data type resolution; and the comparative ease of specifying a symbolic path, as opposed to specifying all connections as 7-bit numbers with 7-bit or 14-bit data types 20:51:22 well there you go. 20:51:41 doesn't say over which transport 20:52:15 "A standard for MIDI over USB was developed in 1999 as a joint effort between IBM, Microsoft, Altec Lansing, Roland Corporation, and Philips.[9] To transmit MIDI over USB a Cable Number and Cable Index are added to the message, and the result is encapsulated in a USB packet. The resulting USB message can be double the size of the native MIDI message. Since USB is over 15,000 times faster than MIDI (480, 20:52:15 000 Kbits/sec vs 31.25 Kbits/sec,) USB has the potential to be much faster. However, due to the nature of USB there is more latency and jitter introduced that is usually in the range of 2 to 10 ms, or about 2 to 10 MIDI commands. Some comparisons done in the early part of the 2000s showed USB to slightly slower with higher latency,[10] and this is still the case today." 20:54:00 OSC is nice because you can actually send audio data if you need to. 20:54:21 or video, etc. 20:55:18 "OSC messages between gestural controllers are usually transmitted over serial endpoints of USB by being wrapped in the SLIP protocol." <-- what, why SLIP? 20:57:06 dunno 20:57:38 maybe it makes it easier to transmit over IP later? 20:57:47 ... 20:57:52 .. 21:05:54 . 21:09:11 21:15:31 -!- augur has joined. 21:15:53 how can it take 3 minutes to email gmail from my own computer? 21:15:56 well, rather more 21:15:58 6 now 21:27:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:27:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:55:11 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:04:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:29 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:13:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:17:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 22:23:30 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:26:27 OK, it finally arrived 22:26:52 it took over half an hour for an email to a gmail account to arrive in the account's inbox after it had already arrived at Google itself, based on the received headers 22:27:00 how is that acceptable service for email nowadays? 22:28:08 Jeeze, I would've expected that shit when there wasn't any hard guarantee that your email was actually routing over the Internet. 22:28:15 it's just all the neutrinos stealing the speed 22:36:08 -!- ive has joined. 22:36:38 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 22:36:41 Miss me? 22:36:58 wait, you were gone? 22:37:01 * oerjan runs away 22:37:45 * Sgeo|web vaguely wonders if there are alternatives to Mibbit which allow Freenode 22:38:25 -!- augur has joined. 22:39:28 Sgeo|web: Freenode blocked Mibbit, not the other way round 22:40:38 * Sgeo|web is aware of this, but was being untechnical in his question 22:40:53 Or I might not have been entirely thinking when I asked it. Not sure. 22:41:48 There's the one that's currently free but soon won't be :/ 22:42:34 Sgeo|web: ALWAYS BE TECHNICAL ALWAYS. 22:42:48 ABOUT althings 22:42:56 * oerjan notes that it is easy to misread untechnical as unethical 22:43:25 oerjan: maybe if you're an old blind norseman. 22:43:48 is oerjan old 22:43:56 I don't even know actually. 22:44:22 I like to imagine him stylistically as an old wise man. Like Odin. 22:44:23 oerjan: is oerjan old 22:44:46 you know because that's Norse mythology and stuff. 22:44:50 :> 22:45:04 * oerjan hits cheater with his cane J=====O 22:45:15 YKGOML 22:45:25 o~o 22:45:30 wacro virus 22:45:56 CakeProphet: ITYMAIM 22:46:27 CakeProphet: also, i'm not missing an eye 22:47:07 yes but you share your great wisdom of past and future. 22:47:12 often in a mystical prophetic manner. 22:47:36 it's just the neutrinos affecting my brain 22:49:40 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:01 you are the balanced elderly force of wisdom that synergizes with elliott's rash youthful spunk and ingenuity. 22:50:25 lolrjan 22:51:37 fancy 22:53:01 Gregor is the grouchy janitor. >_> 22:53:18 the gr stands for grouchy 22:53:30 Gregor: don't tell him I said that 22:53:49 no the gr g is the initial of his name and the r is the last charater of his first name. 22:54:30 because Gregor is actually Roger G. as I've proven on several occasions. 22:54:36 s/name/last name/ 22:54:57 if you say so, Tehpor Pekac 22:56:26 but the cosmic janitor is equally important 22:56:39 as he maintains the order of the two contrasting forces. 23:20:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:23:40 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:26:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:36:06 Gregor is the grouchy janitor. >_> Gregor: don't tell him I said that // ... wut