< 1315785675 304601 :ubuntu__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-12.vodafone-net.de NICK :cheater < 1315785886 878581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git is the only VCS which gets worse the better you use it < 1315785889 636147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for maybe CVS and SVN < 1315785915 80913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315785919 747087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SourceSafe? < 1315786048 342538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that even classify as a VCS? < 1315786086 345828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an, umm, attempt at a VCS < 1315786215 763447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg. we really need sg. sg. < 1315786238 327226 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg < 1315786254 179622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg. < 1315786266 320966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you like my idea to avoid the clash with the Unix sg? < 1315786272 130502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see if our argument is a group, and if so, behave like sg) < 1315786285 855512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't have a group named commit < 1315786307 281111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's ridiculous < 1315786321 945054 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative: Name Scapegoat's command s� < 1315786358 669997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a little hard to type < 1315786363 888595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff < 1315786372 330412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, you know how you proposed hashing minichanges as hash/0, hash/1, etc.? < 1315786392 936709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where hash is the hash of the containing changeset < 1315786408 558915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315786434 289247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I figured out why that wouldn't work, which is a better objection than me just not liking it < 1315786443 250706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the hash of the changeset /depends on the hashes of the contents/ < 1315786461 407232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hash_of(changeset {hash/0, hash/1}) must == hash < 1315786470 631335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1315786473 444351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to work around that < 1315786474 967836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (a) ridiculous, (b) hopefully impossible, or the hash function picked is really weak :P < 1315786477 724700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see why you might not want to < 1315786483 939010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably; what were you thinking? hash /without/ the contents? < 1315786492 450433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, a change with identical metadata hashes identically, despite being non-equal < 1315786496 158653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :name the contents as self/0, self/1, etc < 1315786499 886730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rare, yes, but it means you know the guarantees are broken from the start < 1315786502 199138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, ew < 1315786517 374595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of the plan was to make the things smaller < 1315786523 499833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1315786524 996132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, ew < 1315786543 275985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can still avoid making them bigger < 1315786553 179090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also think that we should get something that works before worrying about that < 1315786586 941768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1315786714 228787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, one of the most important parts of sg that we haven't figured out yet -- < 1315786717 308070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the diff algorithm < 1315786735 398115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, going from filetree A and B, and producing a scapegoat change that turns A into B, and is preferably quite intelligent, using move changes and the like < 1315786738 413132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using diff(1) should be enough to get something working, I think < 1315786743 70027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1315786751 564379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't handle things that are very important for sg, like moving < 1315786773 639458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, if there /is/ an underlying diff algorithm, I'd prefer patience diff < 1315786781 598505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(advantages and example of betterness at http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/73318.html) < 1315786785 198663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's patience diff? < 1315786788 297140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see link :P < 1315786798 499931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposedly a bit slower than traditional diff, but who cares < 1315786811 579838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1315786816 956878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also links to examples < 1315786820 9066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git/2009/1/2/4574424 < 1315786984 843311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to go to a previous verison of a moinmoin page? < 1315786987 646898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent changes doesn't help much < 1315787105 112159 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315787114 12156 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315787116 714694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so incidentally, I'd be interested in seeing how sg's merge compares to precise codeville merge < 1315787130 324622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether that merge might be useful as the first thing sg tries if the standard application fails < 1315787154 911750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(description at http://revctrl.org/PreciseCodevilleMerge, but it's partially spambotted) < 1315787164 461705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg's merge is very conservative; if the merge works at all, it's pretty much 100% going to be correct (anything short of 100% is an error) < 1315787181 830127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1315787182 127438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://revctrl.org/PreciseCodevilleMerge?action=recall&rev=19 < 1315787185 695139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a non-spambot version < 1315787194 126934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's easy to prove it's less than 100% < 1315787205 889919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how? < 1315787214 392826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only definition of "correct" is "what would be written if the changes were written by developers acting sequentially" < 1315787222 723215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider if someone adds A(); somewhere in file a.c < 1315787228 992497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone else adds B(); somewhere in b.c < 1315787236 370330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out that you can't call B() after A() ever, it causes a complete segfault < 1315787241 917159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1315787245 951135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that obviously applies cleanly, but it's an incorrect merge < 1315787270 579483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my definition is "the obvious combination of the two pieces of code without looking at context" < 1315787294 692436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program where A() and B() had that sort of dependency would be pretty unmaintainable, unless the two functions were designed to do basically the same thing and yet added in different locations for some reason < 1315787308 433508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pathological example, there are obviously others < 1315787310 226163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in fact, suppose someone adds a call to free() at the start of a list of deallocations < 1315787316 547764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone else adds a call to free() at the end < 1315787323 227477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315787325 809058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just about to say something similar < 1315787330 801215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed "for instance, two people printing the same debug info in a different manner" < 1315787332 200571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was going to add < 1315787335 49673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but separated by whitespace a bit < 1315787339 319734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any plausible way for a VCS, not even sg, to automatically realise it should take one version not both < 1315787340 196873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not in the "same" place but it effectively is < 1315787347 932180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing the semantics of free < 1315787350 508296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed; a merge algorithm is necessarily imperfect < 1315787355 928753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: tell sg the semantics of free < 1315787359 246881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315787372 698698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, static analysis can catch that one < 1315787379 563037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet clang warns for a double-free like that < 1315787420 219929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yeah, it's about minimising false positives < 1315787440 529714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads more about precise codeville merge
< 1315787464 496690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think clang's overrated < 1315787469 34265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1315787475 123463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of warnings they do are very impressive < 1315787479 783773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was amazing based on what I heard about it, but after comparing it to gcc, gcc just looked like the better system all round < 1315787485 213106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1315787501 429442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang makes it easier to add new analyzers, so it's better for writing new sorts of warnings in < 1315787509 988351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc's internals are more flexible < 1315787511 854223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only place where it's inferior to gcc that I know are: some gcc extensions not implemented, and it produces slightly less speed-efficient code at gcc's best < 1315787515 980210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang just makes so many assumptions, it makes my head hurt < 1315787523 966666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the assumptions are all correct in practice < 1315787532 182457 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315787534 865214 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315787540 628236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with all due politeness (<-- this is how I say I'm about to be rude), comparing two C compilers based on how suitable for gcc-bf they are is bullshit < 1315787550 61556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315787575 327588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :platonically, gcc is the only suitable compiler for gcc-bf < 1315787581 121155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it wouldn't be gcc-bf, but clang-bf or whatever < 1315787585 586277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1315787591 883873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Convergence is the behavior where an identical change is made in two different branches, like this:" < 1315787597 357712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, people have actually /thought/ about this? < 1315787608 15245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: git doesn't work at all unless that's implemented < 1315787629 635380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Currently hardly any version control system properly supports convergence." < 1315787630 161408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315787630 485100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its view of the world is broken and it needs to count changes made twice as made once to avoid breaking whenever three-way merges are done at all < 1315787637 855114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Convergence is sometimes referred to as 'implicit cherry-picking' because it allows cherry-picking to be done offline using diff and patch, and the system figures out what happened. This is in contrast to explicit cherry-picking, which requires the user give semantic input describing the cherry-pick to the system, which is the style supported by Darcs." < 1315787638 864751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315787653 459171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sg can do convergence just fine, in its "first-try" merge algorithm < 1315787660 37723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not a merge if it cleanly applies :P) < 1315787662 839832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's just not necessary < 1315787671 534473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1315787672 931819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Convergence is sometimes referred to as 'implicit cherry-picking' because it allows cherry-picking to be done offline using diff and patch, and the system figures out what happened. This is in contrast to explicit cherry-picking, which requires the user give semantic input describing the cherry-pick to the system, which is the style supported by Darcs." < 1315787673 879852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is quiet nice < 1315787674 763367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1315787675 566798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, sg works fine without convergence being implemented < 1315787678 33496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315787680 213138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but convergence just makes it better < 1315787684 66798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, what I was going to say but then forgot to: < 1315787711 850958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the whole "two filetrees into a change" thing is Yet Another Example of Reifying Intent, Which Has Plagued Computing For A Long Time < 1315787731 775772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, a Kelly misquote < 1315787750 675292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to reconstruct the changes the user intended from the "before" and "after"; the more accurately you reify that intent, the higher-quality the result (because it merges better, etc.) < 1315787770 681580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even ask the user to help it by telling the system some of the intent explicitly, e.g. "sg mv a.c b.c" < 1315787778 41141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "sg split bigfile.c smallfilea.c smallfileb.c" < 1315787798 531582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which basically means "I removed this file, created two new ones; and inside both of those new ones, there's a move change from bigfile.c" < 1315787799 510662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1315787807 215854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315787818 290341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, all Unix shell commands should be prefixable by sg < 1315787825 611219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tell it what you're doing < 1315787831 118741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315787832 352001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if you could do sg cut < 1315787834 791729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not a good idea :P < 1315787841 672202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it knew that you were separating the files into columns < 1315787865 813382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least sg tr is a semantically sensible operation < 1315788164 275121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, instrumenting an editor to use sg, not to commit every single change done, but to, when the time to commit comes, use its information on what editing commands were run to provide a more accurate change than a system that had to reify more intent, would work well < 1315788170 395564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is, psychology < 1315788187 460649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by psychology, there? < 1315788194 550936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I knew my editor was watching my every move to try and figure out what I'm doing, I'd be utterly paranoid not to run editing commands that "don't match my intent" < 1315788203 451526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd be slowed down immensely trying to Do The Right Thing < 1315788205 657729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1315788210 603800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just me, but IMO that kills the idea :) < 1315788221 480692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying; why can't we all be robots, it'd work great then < 1315788325 115316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, who the hell designed cpp? < 1315788370 219763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++, or the preprocessor? < 1315788379 476462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :preprocessor < 1315788394 329619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but it seems to already have been in common use by the time of K&R1 < 1315788414 377334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful :( < 1315788417 859840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preprocessor's a hack around a lot of deficiencies of languages at the time (specifically C, but others too I think) < 1315788421 357238 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315788431 337773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, you need to suffer a bit; incoming flood < 1315788431 864744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define PACKET(id, cname, scmname, nfields, ...) \ < 1315788432 24806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* terminate the last field_num++ of the previous packet */ \ < 1315788432 25001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; \ < 1315788432 30211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : packet_id = id; \ < 1315788432 30337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : field_num = 0; \ < 1315788433 863722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : __VA_ARGS__ < 1315788435 867267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define FIELD(type, cname, scmname) \ < 1315788437 67709 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315788437 897419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : packet_field_symbol_names[packet_id][field_num] = scm_from_utf8_symbol(scmname); \ < 1315788440 7315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : field_num++ /* a comma appears next */ < 1315788441 866147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include "protocol.def" < 1315788443 863740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* terminate the very last field_num++ */ < 1315788445 870487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; < 1315788447 858275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef FIELD < 1315788449 886271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef PACKET < 1315788467 909805 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't read that? < 1315788470 508121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha; did you write that? < 1315788471 553419 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with you? < 1315788475 638376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it's an inside-out function call, I think < 1315788490 175697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the Secret Project has a #define / #include / #undef sequence < 1315788494 354639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's to avoid name clashes in header files < 1315788516 440571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jafet: it's an inside-out function call, I think < 1315788525 494980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that part's a standard technique < 1315788526 339688 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the last part is quite funny < 1315788531 752480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just X-Macros < 1315788534 594431 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose protocol.def is C, is it. < 1315788537 331407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to include both the kernelspace and userspace versions of a particular struct (I forget which), and they had the same name < 1315788543 8156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is, Jafet < 1315788543 424033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET(0x00, KEEPALIVE, "keepalive", 0, 0) < 1315788543 584407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET(0x01, LOGIN, "login", 4, FIELD(FIELD_INT, ID, "id"), FIELD(FIELD_STRING, NAME, "name"), FIELD(FIELD_LONG, SEED, "seed"), FIELD(FIELD_BYTE, WORLD, "world")) < 1315788546 18980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET(0x02, HANDSHAKE, "handshake", 1, FIELD(FIELD_STRING, DATA, "data")) < 1315788547 921276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET(0x03, CHAT, "chat", 1, FIELD(FIELD_STRING, MESSAGE, "message")) < 1315788549 926424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it may be a standard technique, but that doesn't prevent it being an inside-out function call < 1315788550 86286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET(0x04, TIME, "time", 1, FIELD(FIELD_LONG, MINUTES, "minutes")) < 1315788551 916348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1315788553 916742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, X-Macros < 1315788561 747178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, but that's not the terrifying part < 1315788566 63637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I wrote it < 1315788574 672195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the only thing that would work :( < 1315788595 856922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after doing that for a bit, people normally end up inventing DSLs < 1315788598 991080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I do < 1315788599 151058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another great one < 1315788600 473443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (p->type) < 1315788600 633883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1315788600 634100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define PACKET(id, cname, scmname, nfields, ...) \ < 1315788600 634204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case id: \ < 1315788600 634310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return sym_packet_##cname; < 1315788603 970177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include "protocol.def" < 1315788606 47023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef PACKET < 1315788608 153903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : default: < 1315788610 34644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wtff("Invalid packet type %u", p->type); < 1315788611 964237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315788612 124195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIL improved the maintainability of C-INTERCAL's optimiser by orders of magnitude < 1315788613 965137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a DSL that did what? compile to C? < 1315788618 175233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315788619 477240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is embedded in a bunch of other C code < 1315788627 855331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, protocol.def /is/ compiled < 1315788637 57903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from protocol.txt, which just looks like < 1315788637 374936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :entity_equipment: 0x05 < 1315788637 535668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- int entity: entity ID < 1315788637 535844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- short slot: slot (0 = held, 1..4 = armor) < 1315788637 535946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- short item: item ID < 1315788637 875656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- short damage: damage < 1315788638 873708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you've basically written a DSL in cpp < 1315788643 694370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315788647 310392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.def is compiled < 1315788649 533625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the above < 1315788652 707261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, a bunch of the above) < 1315788660 562643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you're compiling from a text description to some code that cpp compiles into some other code < 1315788660 758240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the protocol.pl script that processed it was creating a C file and a header < 1315788670 926921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I needed to use the same information in a bunch of places < 1315788680 677211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd suck to make it even more complicated and spit out a bunch of files < 1315788686 752296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would then have to be pasted slapdash with cpp into other files < 1315788692 443674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the usage was strictly localised < 1315788697 134316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I made it spit out an X-Macro file instead < 1315788710 966805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simplified everything a lot, but occasionally it gets ugly like that :P < 1315788718 501174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIL generates a bunch of files as its output purely to stop gcc running out of memory trying to compile it < 1315788729 157855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, all that comma termination stuff would be unnecessary if you could turn < 1315788730 84706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b, c < 1315788730 552686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1315788731 589057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a; b; c < 1315788732 813057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with cpp < 1315788734 997781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you _can_ < 1315788736 814682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be really ugly < 1315788763 525369 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does a C file have "field_num++" at the end < 1315788778 624527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can for any finite number of fields, I think; I'm not sure about infinite numbers of fields < 1315788786 470225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, unbounded < 1315788821 813199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: the field_num++ is in that FIELD() declaration < 1315788832 264159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the macros more carefully, then look at my pasted snippet of protocol.def < 1315788834 302392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's all like that) < 1315788840 549288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: chaos-pp does that kind of stuff < 1315788861 325071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various other seemingly impossible cpp things < 1315788871 249039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The documentation for CHAOS_PP_IS_EMPTY_NON_FUNCTION says: [quote] If __VA_ARGS__ is empty, this macro expands to 1. Otherwise, it expands to 0." < 1315788875 260349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with iteration, that should make it pretty easy < 1315788896 431003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315788908 71153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that shouldn't even be possible < 1315788917 158159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to specify at least one variable argument, according to C < 1315788927 58340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1315788929 456603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass an empty argument < 1315788932 671860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same thing as passing nothing < 1315788936 620262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp has /really/ weird semantics < 1315788949 260991 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315788985 109143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yikes, take a look at the macro at the bottom of http://bytes.com/topic/c/answers/541521-behavior-variadic-macro#post2113119 < 1315788987 431186 :CakeProphet!~adam@h233.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315788987 591210 :CakeProphet!~adam@h233.44.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1315788987 591353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1315788990 681169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/macro/macros/ < 1315789063 37087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it manage that without any additions? < 1315789089 193617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it seems to have dependencies on macros not mentioned, like FPP_IF < 1315789184 419862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but still, yikes < 1315789561 84858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terrible at cpp programming :( < 1315789566 518328 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1315789613 256575 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I tried cpp programming < 1315789617 697496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was hellish < 1315789631 786056 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315789638 63366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try again < 1315789710 909311 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1315789927 441896 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1315790242 828236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote one time I tried cpp programming ​ it was hellish ​ maybe I should try again < 1315790244 838268 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :651) one time I tried cpp programming ​ it was hellish ​ maybe I should try again < 1315790275 48425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a great description of this channel in three lines of IRC < 1315790334 869130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bothers me that cpp is the one programming language ican't learn < 1315790355 216234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ican't/i can't/ < 1315790851 839730 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp as in C preprocessor? < 1315790869 932870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315790874 290046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1315790902 722029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you learn INTERCAL? < 1315790940 302116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, what a zzoesque phrasing < 1315790952 701531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, admittedly, probably not < 1315790961 242500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to, but it'd be a slow process < 1315790963 670049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, but it wouldn't have been a correct statement if I'd phrased it more normally < 1315790970 382135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, correct reference in the question < 1315790978 4993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should teach INTERCAL < 1315790988 694987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really isn't as bad as it looks, although it's still quite bad < 1315791033 765768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1315791052 4652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1315791074 310754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp is the best language of all. < 1315791078 814726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd attend < 1315791082 281633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here confident about Windows 8, btw? < 1315791088 708291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :confident howso < 1315791129 228418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's going to sell well (relative to other Windows versions)? that it's going to be usable without driving you mad? that it's going to have features you'd want in an OS (or Windows version specifically)? < 1315791149 236377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say that the latter is false, mostly because it's false for every OS in existence < 1315791163 303331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's probably false for @ too; by no means will @ be good) < 1315791184 224321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm, a greater proportion of the features you want than Windows typically has atm? < 1315791193 838156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really though, the tablet-focused stuff looks nice fo a tablet, but not for a mouse < 1315791194 99592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can think an OS is very bad but still admit it's an improvement < 1315791196 835485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tocuhpad < 1315791199 320351 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding < ais523> elliott: can you learn INTERCAL? i thought zzo too < 1315791206 919857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too < 1315791220 74445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Windows 7 is somewhat of a local maxima < 1315791228 199542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the best you can make Windows without Doing Something Different < 1315791232 882464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not surprised they're trying something radical < 1315791261 7303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I wish everyone would stop Doing Something Different, it's driving me away from Linux DEs < 1315791276 320613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least my Something Different is something entirely new, not an upgrade :) < 1315791287 62246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 was pretty Something Differenty in several ways < 1315791300 56460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was? < 1315791301 991127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so glad when I discovered I could change the taskbar back to a reasonably XP-like style < 1315791305 666190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty similar to Vista < 1315791314 755038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's insane < 1315791325 764055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the taskbar is the best taskbar in any OS, as long as Aero is on < 1315791330 353380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise the window switch is useless) < 1315791331 102283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although doing that causes it to break muscle memory on the quick launch area < 1315791351 80408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it becomes unusable as soon as you open two windows of one program < 1315791371 621585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it then requires two clicks in order to open either of them via the taskbar, and you don't know where the second click should be until you've already made the first one < 1315791390 692357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty much unforgivable design < 1315791395 18576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's acceptable for me, because the alternative is a taskbar with a hundred windows < 1315791401 424997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know where to click... full stop < 1315791407 565872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing this for tabs within IE is even worse, why can I not open IE then use its normal tab-change method? < 1315791419 724775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every browser does that now, not IE < 1315791423 978148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's also incredibly useful for me < 1315791427 367601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse < 1315791436 486448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically have 4-6 windows open per desktop < 1315791444 534389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use desktops < 1315791445 591074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrange them in a standard order on the taskbar so that muscle memory works < 1315791451 643000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither to I, normally < 1315791454 965078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1315791463 9729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll use a second one to do an entirely unrelated bunch of work < 1315791465 427455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your computer has fooled you being a manual window manager :) < 1315791480 168360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if it's "fooled" < 1315791485 955766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, my computer allows me to be a manual window manager < 1315791499 855940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's making you waste your time < 1315791508 378307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fooling whether you think you want it or not < 1315791514 416697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I can rearrange the windows while waiting for them to load < 1315791524 92729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading KDE takes a while < 1315791530 849940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, Qr < 1315791532 496022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Qt < 1315791541 186519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with whatever KDE stuff's needed to run KDE stuff outside its shell < 1315791553 566880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your only windows are KDE? < 1315791603 768645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but Konversation loads first < 1315791608 943311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution and Firefox take longer < 1315791624 762436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, Epiphany consistently loads first, but I don't use it until after everything else is loaded, and don't always use it anyway) < 1315791642 201434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my windows are Konversation/Evolution/Firefox/Epiphany atm < 1315791648 884898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there'll be a terminal window too; there was earlier < 1315791653 759407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered using ratpoison? :p < 1315791673 63981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might need to change DE if Gnome have screwed up as badly as I've heard < 1315791683 140287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I'm doing atm works, and doesn't take anything away from my workflow < 1315791691 977316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I use Compiz features on a regular basis < 1315791693 103714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wsa referring to the fact that you have a constant set of windows < 1315791696 374934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was < 1315791699 308994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure I'd be happy with any other compositor < 1315791702 37766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, that's only when online < 1315791708 380439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratpoison doesn't even composit < 1315791708 913784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a completly different constant set of windows when offline < 1315791720 922474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally terminal/emacs/sometimes epiphany < 1315791729 761362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and five or more, which is the game I use to pass time while compiling < 1315791738 247745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with ratpoison basically just lets you have a constant set of windows full-screened... you can even create a new fullscreened window < 1315791744 11633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're /really/ daring, manually tile them < 1315791767 478747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, although I normally keep windows constantly fullscreened (with the exception of five or more), I rely on the ability to unfullscreen them on occasion < 1315791780 625067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I suppose my case is that there are many things I do as standard < 1315791783 724898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what purpose, out of curiosity? < 1315791784 439751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like to be able to deviate from them too < 1315791799 85288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: say I have two terminal windows, and want to turn one always-on-top and semitransparent, then line them up < 1315791802 929354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can visual-diff them < 1315791811 540735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awful < 1315791824 47925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use always-on-top a lot for watching people play NetHack in a corner of the screen while doing other things, too < 1315791829 713294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you calling that awful? < 1315791837 700826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff via compositing < 1315791838 448080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a useful operation and one that couldn't be achieved easily by other means at all < 1315791844 99945 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man diff < 1315791853 845491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, how else are you supposed to diff two telnet sessions? < 1315791861 840371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, more commonly ssh sessions < 1315791865 183520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same principle < 1315791874 556396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compositor is clearly the right program for that < 1315791876 591086 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man expect < 1315791877 266858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;__________-; < 1315791880 557291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, how do you diff GUI images < 1315791881 451294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-;/;/ < 1315791882 959224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: screen-oriented < 1315791898 11241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably write an expect program combined with a VT100 parser, and spend a week or so to get something around half as useful < 1315791902 152318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I could just use Compix < 1315791904 90821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Compiz < 1315791966 417709 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... You're having to automate screen-oriented UIs? < 1315791982 123119 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered grabbing a bludgeoning weapon and hunting down the author? < 1315791995 642172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1315792001 163038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 never said he was automating anything < 1315792008 910961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1315792025 688857 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered just grabbing a bludgeoning weapon regardless? < 1315792027 423070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315792061 750117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the actual use-case is that I have a NetHack game, and a map that I'd like to change that NetHack level to look like < 1315792073 357564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can see a shadow of the map and can try to alter the level itself to look the same < 1315792138 991374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you suggest a simpler way to do that than using a compositor feature that's just perfect for the purpose? < 1315792152 749242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, one that leads me to occasionally invisibilise windows by mistake) < 1315792157 730974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I can't think of a better way either, and I'm going to blame it on Unix < 1315792165 216611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I blame almost everything on Unix < 1315792182 748834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /will/ shout at me for my second-most-common use of the feature, which is seeing a compile happen behind my editor < 1315792190 641929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1315792191 862380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving me two full-screen programs running at once < 1315792193 378648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be worse than shouting < 1315792198 226669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in Birmingham, right? < 1315792205 505790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315792218 711222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect me < 1315792220 158277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315792224 590257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't shout loud enough to reach Birmingham from Hexham < 1315792255 193129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be awesome: if elliott just wanted to go to bed and thought that was a perfect moment to make an amusing exit < 1315792268 813103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take him a while to get here unless he can afford a taxi over that distance < 1315792283 506807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most public transport doesn't work at night, and elliott doesn't have a driving license < 1315792292 476404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315792294 127612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out there aren't trains at this time < 1315792299 779068 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. :P < 1315792307 501914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:51] it'll take him a while to get here unless he can afford a taxi over that distance < 1315792308 815097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:52] most public transport doesn't work at night, and elliott doesn't have a driving license < 1315792320 165285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what a taxi to Birmingham would cost? < 1315792324 311318 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, what, 01:00 there? < 1315792329 419278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 3am < 1315792335 912567 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1315792339 773298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters at planes costing a lot more than busses
< 1315792339 933251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know about taxi costs is, I gawp when I see the little indicator inside going up < 1315792343 277036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at an alarming rate < 1315792346 162585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not exponential < 1315792352 868707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No... shit? < 1315792372 563464 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be fun to roam the world on a few dollars < 1315792377 868101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters at people pluralizing "buses" in weird ways.
< 1315792392 222267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: people do it < 1315792392 382349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :busi < 1315792398 952712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they use planes much < 1315792401 685008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the thing that always amuses me is the £300 or so surcharge there is from most companies for calling a taxi on Christmas Day < 1315792412 141924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315792413 32482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I got a taxi from Wales to England once < 1315792417 58024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it was just across the border < 1315792417 217888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, how much would a taxi to Birmingham cost? < 1315792430 38566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so, the taxi driver had to ring his boss and ask for permission to go that far out of usual territory < 1315792430 352453 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: People who can get to a different country in less than 1,000 miles travel do. :P < 1315792442 931954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my guess is on the order of £1000 < 1315792448 780182 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Sgeo's in New York. He could get to the Canadian border with much less effort. < 1315792455 764065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1315792465 823328 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was stung by a wasp in Canada once < 1315792475 626409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I NEVER RETURNED TO THE WRETCHED PLACE < 1315792478 954380 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like trains. < 1315792483 301021 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*smack* < 1315792485 581020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like trains too. < 1315792493 638401 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we had some. < 1315792494 837813 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, turns out to be true that I never returned to Canada < 1315792512 577255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're calling Canada a wretched place, I see. < 1315792528 941339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interestingly, Google Maps suggests two entirely different routes from Hexham to Birmingham < 1315792541 11913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one via the A1, the other via the M6 < 1315792558 985598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how easy it is to walk the A1 < 1315792564 468143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the A1 goes east of Leeds, whilst the M6 goes west of Manchester < 1315792572 529682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a little space at the side, right < 1315792573 24095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315792574 318425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I didn't really appreciate that Hexham was that far North < 1315792586 571071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're practically Scottish, with the distinct advantage that we're not Scottish < 1315792588 207182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, much of it's a motorway, so yes but you technically aren't allowed to walk there < 1315792598 5447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how technical that is < 1315792610 796466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're at a similar latitude to Newcastle! < 1315792615 725221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever get stranded on the A1, it would be useful to know that a police car would be happy to export me to somewhere warm < 1315792620 997579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, yes, we're right next to Newcastle < 1315792626 542721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :geoip says I'm in newcastle IIRC < 1315792636 776708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd make sense, who'd put Hexham in a geoIP? < 1315792641 133570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1315792674 218836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, evidence that AJAX is stupid and I hate it: there's an actual "link" button that you need to click on Google Maps to get a link to what you're viewing < 1315792680 715358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the URL doesn't change according to what you've entered < 1315792684 937237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's in htmlfive < 1315792688 529111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and current browsers implement it < 1315792689 325428 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315792693 622263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(changing the url appropriately and adding to history) < 1315792694 597372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but does Google use it? < 1315792701 362765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, that's evidence that google is stupid and you hate it < 1315792711 195346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We could not calculate directions between Hexham, UK and Birmingham, AL." < 1315792712 185779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :google... < 1315792713 402355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, I knew that already < 1315792727 886937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, I can walk to birmingham in two days and... I... < 1315792730 61841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have to see this < 1315792735 896136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=hexham+uk&daddr=birmingham+uk&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.122306,85.869141&geocode=FWjHRgMdAf3f_ykVmDENYpB9SDEEwA0heCs6qA%3BFZHTIAMdKBvj_ylzcUEbLZRwSDGYee6u8P6Byg&vpsrc=0&mra=ls&t=m&z=7 < 1315792744 514511 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Give it a couple decades and that will be SOlved. < 1315792747 957024 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLVED, even. < 1315792748 117185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, if you want to walk that distance, you should be using the NCN < 1315792754 410928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://ompldr.org/vYWI5aQ < 1315792759 834569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE OF THOSE ROUTES IS VERY PRACTICAL INDEED < 1315792761 940047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the /other/ Year 2000 project, the one that isn't the Millenium Dome < 1315792782 409455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got only a fraction of the funding and is way more useful < 1315792790 617909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLICK THAT LINK < 1315792794 211688 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315792798 353389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically made a network of cyclepaths (that can also be walked along) connecting all the major cities in the UK < 1315792801 509614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLICK THAT LINK < 1315792803 741576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many of the minor ones < 1315792806 56025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1315792841 330648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better yet: Go west to get to Asia < 1315792898 921855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh, I was unaware that there were cycle roads separate from car ones < 1315792918 683141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is everyone else, more or less < 1315792923 841127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to go along car roads sometimes < 1315792927 288986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the countryside < 1315792930 350496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they try to make them minor ones < 1315792934 745321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Openstreetmap-ncn-20101217.jpg neat, you can cross the island with them < 1315792940 448432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Birmingham, they mostly go along floodplains < 1315792946 208844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, placewhosenameiforgetinscotland to lands end < 1315792960 458601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :places that they can't build anything but cycle paths because they get flooded every now and then < 1315792966 663625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315792991 732802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :route 5 goes along Birmingham, and is mostly along the banks of the River Rea; I use it to walk to the city centre occasionally < 1315793056 460181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this Sustrans website is doing Flash-like things without Flash, it looks like it's a proper HTML thing < 1315793061 657952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to remarkably few places in the UK now that I think about it < 1315793074 85429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: flash-like things? < 1315793097 886134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that people normally use Flash for, like scrollable zoomable maps that react to things like the mouse wheel < 1315793128 573969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are almost universally google-maps based, which is js < 1315793139 442337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, yahoo maps or whatever < 1315793141 192889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's js, too < 1315793152 7437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sustrans.org.uk/map?searchKey=hexham&searchType=search&Search=Find this is not very pleasant to use < 1315793154 335120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, route 72 seems to go through hexham < 1315793168 778656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, it seems pretty awkward to use < 1315793177 865462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if that path is part of it < 1315793183 154043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so that I can't figure out where else route 72 goes, or where it connects to < 1315793198 467258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a pretty wide, very long path next to the Tyne that seems to have no actual purpose; when I've been on it cyclers have passed every now and then IIRC) < 1315793205 368678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NCN is reasonably noticeable if you look: it has blue signs with a white bicycle symbol, and a patch of red background with a white number on < 1315793213 493714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to go anywhere, though; after hours of walking, it just ended up in some nowhere village < 1315793218 616061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're relatively frequent < 1315793224 571073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I don't recall any signs though < 1315793226 701791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that sounds like an adequate description of the NCN < 1315793240 618800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there /was/ that fork < 1315793245 243670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the interesting places was down that < 1315793247 535230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/were/ < 1315793249 369045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/were/are/ < 1315793273 533322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the route seems to be mostly along the north of Hexham, and makes a small detour to visit the railway station < 1315793295 810350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315793302 519269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any cycle path at the railway station < 1315793337 507892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 72/68/54/5 < 1315793343 281331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315793343 440910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be your walking route from Hexham to Birmingham < 1315793346 731431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315793351 808078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that take less than two days? < 1315793368 305809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how fast you walk, I guess < 1315793374 17525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Hexham's so far north of Birmingham that I doubt it < 1315793382 954457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you walk over 200 miles in two days? < 1315793399 159222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 4mph, a fast walking speed, that's 25 hours of walking, so I think it's doable < 1315793403 429553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, 50 hours of walking < 1315793406 719771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not doable < 1315793411 723592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three days seems possible < 1315793419 429363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran five miles once when I was a kid... I think it took an hour? < 1315793424 473418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :felt like running to me, not walking < 1315793435 163857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I forgot to eat anything, which made the aftermath fun < 1315793439 904024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5mph is plausible for jogging < 1315793449 11916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like ... uh ... young :P < 1315793459 584631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running's more like 15mph, but you need to be a top athlete to keep that up for even a mile < 1315793464 758644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sprinting faster still < 1315793498 82298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the difference between normal people and Olympic athletes is more in how long they can keep a speed up than maximum speed, except for sprints) < 1315793508 181153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have rather terrible stamina, so I expect it'd take me quite many days to get to Birmingham < 1315793616 474481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just amused that we're even discussing this < 1315793625 706311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that I'm giving advice, given your stated purpose for walking to Birmingham < 1315793629 898764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start teaching INTERCAL, I'll make a good-faith effort to walk the distance < 1315793656 284681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I could get it added to the syllabus < 1315793658 206975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's worth it just to try and stop you using translucency for that, though < 1315793666 744986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: underground INTERCAL classes < 1315793683 949070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classes will be held in building whatever, at midnight. please note that the door will be locked, so you may have to break the window. < 1315793715 83507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, XSLT is a functional programming language < 1315793734 34096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could hold it in the secret underground maintenance tunnels, I suppose < 1315793738 13855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I have no idea where the entrance is < 1315793739 822303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun < 1315793742 910973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're very cramped and dangerous < 1315793748 532633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why dangerous? < 1315793761 306738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their existence became obvious to absolutely everyone a while back as they spent several months replacing the roofs < 1315793765 4007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because they mostly carry hot water < 1315793770 47930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315793772 190094 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315793774 977333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot enough that steam came up from them constantly while the roof was removed < 1315793783 315733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there's a good few people there anyway < 1315793788 976410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :urban exploration, and all that < 1315793799 562189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they're incredibly narrow in places < 1315793809 506568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I'm incredibly narrow in all places < 1315793880 229160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some steam tunnels have dirt floors, no efficient lighting and have temperatures upwards of 45 °C (113 °F)." < 1315793881 149537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315793882 870787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like Australia. < 1315793885 202390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rimshot] < 1315793894 873845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay that was bad. < 1315793897 479850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise. < 1315793959 161139 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must inform you on behalf of Australia that your apology has not been accepted, and you should probably not be surprised if a large and oddly poisonous animal shows up in your bed tonight. < 1315793978 623330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're punishing me by giving the honorary Australian treatment? < 1315794080 672915 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I was in the school one teacher was teaching computer programming. I suggested that he learn INTERCAL. < 1315794091 360841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1315794106 796744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bear in mind that zzo38's teachers probably have met zzo38 < 1315794125 214469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315794132 436639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"probably" < 1315794206 630083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315794248 144137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :homespring is the best language < 1315794250 378061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether he tried to even figure out what INTERCAL is, though. < 1315794264 929852 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other programming metaphor is obsolete. < 1315794361 557758 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315794652 764744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ADOM wish program does strange things. If you type "blind" it assumes you mean "goblin", type "weapon mastery" it assumes you meant "dwarven weaponmaster", typing "sheep" it assumes you mean "banshee"; all of them summon hostile creatures of that type. "human corpses" just results in random corpses. < 1315794704 704101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing "sickness" gives you a temporary speed boost (I don't know why). "kobold corpses" results in kobold corpses, but "blink dog corpse" results in live (and hostile) blink dogs. < 1315794734 415104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably to make cheating more exciting. < 1315794770 890458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1315794810 140309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Fun < 1315794837 294910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's trying to match the maximum number of consecutive letters < 1315794841 254536 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing "visibility" does *not* result in visibility, it results in rings of invisibility. "cold" results in gold (probably in many cases it tries an approximate match, this is one such case). < 1315794858 454283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "/blin/d" -> "go/blin/" < 1315794870 193013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the vast majority of zzo38's cases, except the sickness one < 1315794872 353160 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315794877 419564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did notice those kind of things. < 1315794879 280657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quickness < 1315794880 723018 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315794885 686630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: aha, that must be it < 1315794890 517701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315794942 819767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things I read elsewhere. "Thomas Biskup" results in a message saying that you should not mock the creator of this game. < 1315794944 205456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I made some kind of wish system or cheating tool I would make it to completely random things for typed phrases. < 1315794963 675177 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make life interesting. < 1315794991 873963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While "death" apparently results in a lot of aging (not necessarily death). < 1315795004 8742 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4JTlR_ltRo LOL < 1315795041 564654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd buy it < 1315795116 647717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty exciting < 1315795163 806223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is working on an esolang that uses a completely made up particle physics oriented programming model.
< 1315795167 188070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also various sets of restrictions you can try. One is to win the game, but select the highest number of kills of any individual kind of creature; the lower the highest such number is, the better your score. One is again win the game but your score is the number of different kind of creatures you have killed and the high number is best. < 1315795169 731814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best metaphor of all < 1315795177 389424 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than homespring < 1315795198 215982 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another is you must enter the small cave at first (no exceptions), and stay there. Do not go up or down stairs. Goal is to reach 50th experience level. < 1315795218 857880 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty exciting. < 1315795259 296573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another is to win with the lowest experience total. (Someone has completed the special ending with only 1 experience point.) < 1315795332 920947 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be really good, or the game isn't very difficult. < 1315795381 105536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's more that it's one of those games that is difficult but gets easier with spoilers < 1315795381 265669 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is another: Win the game but a restriction is that you can never carry more than 100 stones worth of inventory (this counts both equipped and nonequipped equipment). If you start with more than 100 then drop some on the road before you continue. (To win the game, you need five orbs, each of which weighs 100s. This means you must place each orb individually and then get the next one; and while doing so, no other items are permitted) < 1315795439 596530 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1315795461 229569 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yesterday or so I had a good nap dream < 1315795475 641997 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another restriction is no use of the downstairs command. Goal is reaching 50th experience level. This means the only places you can enter are wilderness encounters. < 1315795500 917562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the future or something and my family and I are in outer space and one of my teeth falls out mysteriously and this troubles me so I decide I need to see a space dentist < 1315795533 192408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my dad drags me to space church instead and it's boring and he makes me talk to the space priest so I get up but then this child bumps into me and spills wafers everywhere < 1315795547 942498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I failed to follow the line wrap there < 1315795559 54144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up reading "This means the only places you can enter are wilderness space dentist" < 1315795569 37488 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good reading < 1315795591 850529 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the completion of eternium man is awesome < 1315795594 62299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I help him pick up the wafers but then the priest sits down and I guess he had to be standing for me to talk to him or something? I stand up and he asks me what the matter is and I say I was just a bit late standing up. everyone finds this hilarious and laughs a lot. < 1315795625 915520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I found that hilarious too < 1315795648 443689 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it gets weird: gashes open up everywhere and there are tentacles everywhere and some of the tentacles burst and my father comes to the conclusion that the place is evil and we flee < 1315795685 384701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have enough fuel to get anywhere but my dad remembers there's this woman who goes to space church who lives nearby and is a space dentist so we go to her place < 1315795714 563578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a really long staircase leading up to a spall 1-room house with a glass door and an old lady inside cleaning up instead of noticing us < 1315795739 608137 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ring the doorbell and explain I was at space church and require dental assistance so she gets her tooth inspection kit < 1315795800 803175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while inspecting my teeth she rambles about how wonderful they are and explains how I'm her only patient with good enough teeth to see the full majesty and she shows me this chart relating teeth to flavours < 1315795815 177064 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and points out the different tooth flavour relations < 1315795826 749191 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one tooth is for milk and another one is for strength (these are flavours) < 1315795841 793048 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then she plunges a knife into my stomach and I wake up < 1315795842 451148 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1315795878 63321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a bizarre thing for her to do < 1315795885 65021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't understand it either < 1315795961 335844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's part of space dentistry. maybe she was evil too. < 1315796005 626383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps stabbing someone is how you cure space tooth problems < 1315796094 317225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is this < 1315796095 495667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dream talk < 1315796095 921489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me read < 1315796216 867762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: good dream < 1315796230 992198 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked it too < 1315796260 352285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night I had a really complicated dream with a huge backstory but I can't remember any of the interesting parts < 1315796282 374718 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were about frogs < 1315796320 185870 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315796501 673511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, Wolfram Alpha, alternate forums < 1315796503 213251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forms < 1315796510 365059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how about giving me the answer already < 1315796545 551803 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it refuses to for inconsistent systems? < 1315796639 459738 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be happy enough to give solutions to systems with unique solution < 1315796740 150165 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing < 1315796816 549472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear algebra homework, wanted to check my result that the system of equations is inconsistent < 1315797257 323923 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered just implementing the algorithms and omitting the manual computation that is, of course, devoid of value? < 1315797319 114944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes in Haskell, it is unable to deduce a type even though there is a match. Maybe there should be a type deduction command to specify more precisely how types should be derived in certain situations < 1315797329 792142 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the last problem in this homework. If I get more homework of this style, I'll consider it < 1315797346 710063 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: you will. < 1315797377 416557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, currently this involves shuffling around equations and doing what seems like will be easiest < 1315797400 910412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to try to automate that in a believable way < 1315797405 895121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you abort a commit of a merge in git? < 1315797407 872619 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although actually that might not be that heard < 1315797408 562728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git normally aborts with no message < 1315797409 713628 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard < 1315797414 181106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will just deleting the automatic message work < 1315797414 351499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315797424 156277 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, what the fuck are you doing, precisely? < 1315797424 904393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it does < 1315797426 548763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :P < 1315797434 703121 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the class pretty much just started < 1315797463 959440 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question still stands. < 1315797544 147424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solving systems of linear equations by using elementary row operations to get an identity matrix for ... one part? and the constants on the other < 1315797586 316677 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're doing that for the next few months. < 1315797596 100282 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is a very simple algorithm for it. < 1315797625 749115 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes pikhq is joking about the "next few months" thing
< 1315797646 698284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1315797662 551049 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing O(n^3) algorithms by hand makes pikhq sad. < 1315797663 617908 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes that maybe his school will actually, somehow, prove to be better?
< 1315797677 780239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though O(n!) algorithms are worse. < 1315797688 111803 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both will happen. < 1315797716 102307 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo your school is the worst you have no hope of it being better < 1315797754 33642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes his other homework assignment won't be more of the same. Hmm, it shouldn't be. Although there will be overlap with that class and the linear algebra class near the beginning :/
< 1315797763 709910 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Regarding wolframalpha, you could write the system as a matrix and test if it is singular (det x = 0) < 1315797865 462573 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :azaq23: He's not even learned the row reduction algorithm yet. < 1315797866 27324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Look at this awful crock: https://github.com/fis/mcmap/blob/guile/scheme.c#L318 < 1315797872 625907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: cpp hackery. < 1315797875 447056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even worse than before. < 1315797897 308105 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void)__VA_ARGS__? < 1315797900 734965 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gag. < 1315797905 604731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1315797927 957281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you lok at it, or do you not even visit GitHub pages? :P < 1315797934 770148 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wait, do you actually now know how to row-reduce? < 1315797936 396679 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of hackery. < 1315797937 353179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to add a (void) cast and some parentheses to stop clang complaining about an unused 0 expression result < 1315797941 852660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because -Werror < 1315797944 752062 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: He just started a linear algebra class. < 1315797945 419083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was laughing at pikhq's line < 1315797955 277475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually -pedantic might be the one doing it but whatever < 1315797960 430889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been known to visit github pages when there's no other option, but they often don't work anyway < 1315797972 782493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define PACKET(id, cname, scmname, nfields, ...) \ < 1315797972 949525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* terminate the last field_num++ of the previous packet */ \ < 1315797973 109858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; \ < 1315797973 110057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : packet_id = id; \ < 1315797973 110165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : field_num = 0; \ < 1315797973 292642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* packets with no fields have a dummy "0" variable argument for strict < 1315797975 299369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : C99 compliance. we use (void) here so that clang doesn't generate < 1315797977 305099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a warning about an unused expression as it's expanded here */ \ < 1315797979 321249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (void) __VA_ARGS__ < 1315797981 162184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define FIELD(type, cname, scmname) \ < 1315797983 165726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* parentheses around this assignment so that the previous (void) cast < 1315797985 179032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : doesn't mess it up */ < 1315797987 215445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (packet_field_symbol_names[packet_id][field_num] = scm_from_utf8_symbol(scmname)); \ < 1315797989 273427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : field_num++ /* a comma appears next */ < 1315797991 306049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include "protocol.def" < 1315797995 262285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* terminate the very last field_num++ */ < 1315797997 305628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; < 1315797999 406358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef FIELD < 1315798001 214836 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haha < 1315798001 374264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef PACKET < 1315798003 483122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can enjoy, too < 1315798014 343201 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b635d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315798022 827196 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, you know what the worst part is? < 1315798027 799367 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet he doesn't know what a vector space is < 1315798032 59370 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they claim it's linear algebra < 1315798043 524608 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, that would be in the course. < 1315798052 82113 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I hope, at least. < 1315798055 490978 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you better know what a vector space is < 1315798073 522869 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like expecting someone who just started calculus to know what an integral is. :P < 1315798081 607182 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh what < 1315798086 511758 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude you start with vector spaces < 1315798116 314254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sane course perhaps. But more generally, you start with 0 knowledge at all. < 1315798118 821646 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this is like expecting someone who just started "calculus" to know what a real number is < 1315798122 841793 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he is at the 0 knowledge point. < 1315798133 946089 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people graduate from calculus courses without knowing what a real number is < 1315798177 426635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what vectors are < 1315798184 682985 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thumbs up) < 1315798189 79691 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikis vector space
< 1315798190 432149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Quite different from a vector space. < 1315798198 78250 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it is a related concept. < 1315798229 263966 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although my other class expected me to know what sets are. I did, but I don't remember ever learning them in school < 1315798252 677812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy.c:226: error: overflow in implicit constant conversion < 1315798253 2750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy.c:226: error: overflow in implicit constant conversion < 1315798253 717926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1315798257 38214 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, I disagree < 1315798261 526321 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with Jafet, this time) < 1315798264 272779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :target :: Entity e => Predicate e -> Target e; opponent :: Predicate Player; artifact :: Predicate Object; -- I think it won't work if "Predicate" is simply function resulting to boolean; more complicated kind of selection would be used if you are making a card game < 1315798288 690279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear algebra should start by defining vector spaces, and introduce matrices as convenient representations of linear operators < 1315798294 662206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : static const char prefix[4] = { 0xc2, 0xa7, 'b', 0 }; < 1315798296 640471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... what? < 1315798302 502227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can there be any overflow there? < 1315798306 995980 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Mathematical pedagogy is pretty dang terrible, though. < 1315798319 340361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he;pl < 1315798321 282284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it introduces matrices and their operations, and then moves on to vector spaces later. < 1315798321 941614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;lp < 1315798349 957330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I've looked at your ping at me about 3 times trying to figure out why I had he;pl as a stalkword < 1315798356 307880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahaha < 1315798368 803988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have represented a transaction in accounting as a matrix (possibly with extra information attached, such as comments) < 1315798382 802229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 0xc2 may well overflow a signed char < 1315798394 673301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1315798399 148109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, a plain char, if it happens to be signed < 1315798403 891948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1315798406 641113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would < 1315798408 406204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :signed char only goes up to 0x7f on an 8-bit system < 1315798415 461576 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specify typedef unsigned char byte; and then you can use the shortcut to ensure unsigned when wanted < 1315798418 518247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : static const unsigned char prefix[4] = { 0xc2, 0xa7, 'b', 0 }; < 1315798419 869516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :work? < 1315798420 544279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try '\xc2' < 1315798424 697154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll work too, yes < 1315798432 68992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use unsigned chars, depending on what you want the sequence for < 1315798455 262172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, thanks clang's scan-build, although I doubt that would ever do the wrong thing :P < 1315798460 673863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just < 1315798461 329477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : static const char prefix[4] = { '\xc2', '\xa7', 'b', 0 }; < 1315798461 495860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *cmsg = g_strjoin("", prefix, msg, NULL); < 1315798466 244100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/just /just/ < 1315798471 461697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those two bytes are the UTF-eight section sign < 1315798476 350425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Minecraft uses for colour codes < 1315798483 785211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bizarre < 1315798483 945374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(previously, it used the latin-one byte for that...) < 1315798488 248697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it changed to utf < 1315798495 9700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it automatically started doing that :DD < 1315798500 210181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I think it's doing it wrong < 1315798510 873435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no idea < 1315798514 842273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that embedded into arbitrary text? < 1315798525 448692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not arbitrary; the server boots you off if you use bad characters < 1315798527 568097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the section sign, say < 1315798534 905728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :text that should be arbitrary but isn't? < 1315798536 363550 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not at my school! < 1315798537 634056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the font only covers that one DOS codepage < 1315798543 804208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Unicode is quite useless < 1315798552 590268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some parts of the protocol use utf-sixteen, and others utf-eight < 1315798623 200348 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Section sign"? < 1315798625 692144 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they use control characters for the colors and so on? And why do they use sometimes UTF-16 and UTF-8 even though Unicode is not used anyways? < 1315798643 507076 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that symbol. Didn't know what it was called ... < 1315798645 245866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Google it. < 1315798646 736257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315798647 724154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case of CP437 (probably others too), the section sign is one of its characters. < 1315798648 288515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it doesn't seem to be in my compose, but it looks like two overlapping S characters < 1315798661 944812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose s s is taken for ß, obviously < 1315798662 514270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawyers who play Minecraft must not be amused. < 1315798694 564739 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What happen if you use uppercase "S" instead? < 1315798709 694616 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1315798713 230387 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's s-o < 1315798756 726011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you using some encoding other than UTF-8? (I currently have terminal emulator set to UTF-8) < 1315798767 607321 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using UTF-8 < 1315798779 806503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is not a section sign in UTF-8. < 1315798783 16686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: XChat? < 1315798788 408978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No yer note. < 1315798789 824598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. < 1315798790 356138 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem not valid UTF-8 code at all < 1315798795 257212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Go into network list, find freenode, Edit < 1315798801 687194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observe character set being set to "IRC" < 1315798802 558921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I configured X-Chat to be UTF-8 on Freenode >_< < 1315798805 295233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is latin-one "if it would fit" < 1315798806 278252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise utf < 1315798809 327738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is THE STUPIDEST ENCODING < 1315798814 365049 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I only configured that on my desktop I guess. < 1315798834 751921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1315798844 50347 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wrong < 1315798846 968393 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1315798857 291522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try reconnecting. < 1315798867 595127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about UTF-8 if it'd fit and otherwise Latin-1 to save on bytes? < 1315798877 604280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would always fit into UTF < 1315798886 317213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: different meaning of "fit" < 1315798891 403586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 510-byte limit < 1315798892 742261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PuTTY does not have such encoding anyways < 1315798902 533460 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1315798907 398181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, heh < 1315798907 558254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wrong < 1315798911 642452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try quitting :P < 1315798914 517942 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh < 1315798922 312266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm going to compile putty on linux < 1315798923 502243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST BECAUSE I CAN < 1315798930 383048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because most people don't realise you can < 1315798947 642471 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably some people use PuTTY < 1315798953 360055 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE UTF-8 YOU STUPID § < 1315798953 520043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of people do < 1315798963 575627 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is OK now. < 1315798967 978522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaaaaaaaay < 1315798973 387823 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had to yell at it. < 1315798988 223961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, PuTTY is really convenient if you want to SSH from Windows. < 1315799009 189100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Persuade automake to give us a copy of its install-sh. This is a < 1315799009 414703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# pain because I don't actually want to have to _use_ automake. < 1315799009 574647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Instead, I construct a trivial unrelated automake project in a < 1315799009 574813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# temporary subdirectory, run automake so that it'll copy < 1315799009 574916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# install-sh into that directory, then copy it back out again. < 1315799010 97498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Hideous, but it should work. < 1315799014 547498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PuTTY's build system sure is fun < 1315799017 651509 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, do so. Sometimes that is the kind of terminal emulation you need, even though it try to emulate xterm < 1315799020 443602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Some news > automake-grievous-hack/NEWS < 1315799020 775834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Some text > automake-grievous-hack/README < 1315799020 935642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Some people > automake-grievous-hack/AUTHORS < 1315799022 319112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Some changes > automake-grievous-hack/ChangeLog < 1315799026 831979 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as other features of PuTTY < 1315799043 453699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not just include a copy of install-sh? < 1315799043 613645 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are not allowed to complain about bad build systems until you build WebKit. < 1315799063 415215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what PuTTY's doing is equivalent to downloading it from a package manager < 1315799068 262791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you built gcc? < 1315799069 21126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I probably will, once musl, clang and libc++ work harmoniously < 1315799074 244059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: building gcc is easy < 1315799075 676105 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1315799077 450983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, OK < 1315799082 765075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have you looked at the build system? < 1315799088 269287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, no :) < 1315799090 772830 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not only have I built GCC, I've built cross-compilers with arbitrarily-screwy requirements. < 1315799108 128766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has such an interesting life. < 1315799113 511094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc's build system is basically what you get by repeatedly editing compiler output, for many years < 1315799131 553620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315799133 239140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that there's no corresponding original source, and much of it is inline asm m4 < 1315799145 507644 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only have I built arbitrarily-screwy cross compilers, I've implemented new platforms (only OS, not arch or bin format) < 1315799154 495149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also predates automake. < 1315799160 539481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: JSMIPS? :P < 1315799163 801876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ayup :P < 1315799169 886273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Jesus you are a glutton for punishment. < 1315799178 403989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users could see what was happening on another's terminal (using a command called OS for "output spy"). A target of OS could detect and kill it using another command called JEDGAR, named for FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover). This facility was later disabled in an interesting way: it looked like the session was killed, but was not.[1]" < 1315799199 951817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me is looking into ITS to find that open ITS telnet server to try putty on) < 1315799312 605164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SV is running ITS. Please be very careful." < 1315799321 928414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point to that whole diatribe was this: GCC's build system screwiness ain't got nothin' on WebKit. < 1315799337 113872 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least GCC has /one build system/. < 1315799340 464216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suspect WebKit is easy to build as long as you don't want to change anything < 1315799345 201109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any terminal emulators that causes ASCII DLE control code to make next character forced treated as a normal character? < 1315799351 433927 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True. < 1315799386 526713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how people even develop gcc, or WebKit, or anything. I can't work unless I can build in less than ten seconds. < 1315799412 539743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you deal waiting a minute for your build system to figure out what it has to do? < 1315799423 771705 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With WebKit, it's "change on .h file -> wait 40 minutes -> find you made the wrong change" < 1315799426 975297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, how's musl C++ support? < 1315799430 503204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How many minutes is it really? :P < 1315799431 671900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get it right on the first try? < 1315799433 544567 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1315799434 692777 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 40. < 1315799438 508329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No but really. < 1315799441 804224 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am not exaggerating. < 1315799447 170269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forty? < 1315799450 609954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you're exaggerating. < 1315799452 374141 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four times ten. < 1315799463 760178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit will steal four times ten minutes. < 1315799466 278178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's terrible. < 1315799468 43805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How receptive are they to patches ripping the build systems out and replacing them all with a single tup? < 1315799469 583039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315799494 573327 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, I suspect that's mostly not the build system, but just the fact that it's an enormous bloated C++ mess. < 1315799494 867821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that time actually spent linking things and shit? < 1315799508 136377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably at least PARTIALLY the build system, though :P < 1315799511 58927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many files are there in that thing? < 1315799522 909018 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do the Qt build, which links everything into a single library, and you have the conventional (non-gold) linker, it can take 10 minutes or so to link. < 1315799529 471833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1315799538 575131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with gold it takes a few minutes. < 1315799546 327778 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 15 < 1315799555 468200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... NetSurf, anyone? < 1315799560 399163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per how many files, roughly a metric fuckton. < 1315799563 1123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it renders Wikipedia and the BBC properly. < 1315799563 883505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many modules do those programs have? < 1315799569 214863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.netsurf-browser.org/about/screenshots/images/gtk-bbc.png < 1315799570 607039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? No? < 1315799609 172031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which skins of Wikipedia does it work with? < 1315799616 557878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Web standards: HTML 4.01 and CSS 2.1" < 1315799620 597741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably all of them, if it does Vector. < 1315799621 101754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work with Nostalgia skin? < 1315799631 561500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're RISC OS people, man, they talk weird. < 1315799638 587625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that rendering ain't bad :P < 1315799643 335236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course Nostalgia skin is very simple it ought to work < 1315799644 685298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does JS though. < 1315799656 453681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no JS. < 1315799667 411233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame. < 1315799684 95519 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other programs such as Lynx also does no JS < 1315799708 647210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS should be replaced by HaskellScript < 1315799716 472324 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS should be replaced by Fythe < 1315799731 608791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS should be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ < 1315799744 737199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really though, how hard is it to add JS to browsers nowadays? < 1315799748 666958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step one: Grab an existing JS implementation. < 1315799751 697634 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps don't use webpages and don't have to worry about it unless using other JS programs. < 1315799753 341563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step two: Implement the DOM API. < 1315799754 200064 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS itself is boringly simple. < 1315799754 717915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step three: Uh. < 1315799755 478506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots. < 1315799758 13516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of other APIs. < 1315799759 137868 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DOM is stupidly complex. < 1315799772 211072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK but the BASICS could be integrated into a browser in, like, a few weeks? < 1315799777 488624 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because it's a mish-mash of incompatible APIs. < 1315799780 739985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough for gmail, but enough for simple shit :P < 1315799786 740265 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, probably. < 1315799793 330081 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript (just as itself, not having specific to do with webpages or anything) is not bad, though. < 1315799799 292930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just sayin' that the language part has been beaten to death, so you can just reuse that. < 1315799842 727506 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I disagree completely. < 1315799849 950048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Looks like NetSurf uses an HTML5 parser, so their main page is out of date :P < 1315799852 125878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hubbub) < 1315799865 230806 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the major problems w.r.t. implementing JS in text browsers is that the whole DOM API assumes there are pixels. < 1315799876 126622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetSurf isn't a text browser, dude :P < 1315799884 405020 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but somebody mentioned lynx :P < 1315799890 138566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 did :P < 1315799900 105048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, w[three]m does images. :p < 1315799912 404389 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not well < 1315799913 240906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Hubbub is part of the NetSurf thing < 1315800025 198485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: duplicate characters in regex character class. < 1315800036 367390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad. < 1315800041 46307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddap < 1315800063 844888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Holy crap NetSurf renders quickly. < 1315800072 816054 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^....\s...!$ < 1315800079 799245 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is why, I will make the computer, it will have both Forth and BASIC built-in, but no web browser program (although you can still use HTTP (as well as Gopher, and possibly also FTP and Plan 9 protocol) to download programs). < 1315800080 60660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it doesn't quite do the rendering of Google I'd expect :P < 1315800101 749147 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315800102 304072 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to be fast when you're wrong ... < 1315800118 479176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's trivial wrongness, I think mostly CSS3 stuff < 1315800129 923572 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx's rendering is fast ;) < 1315800134 598494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :P < 1315800149 218030 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're running it in Terminal.app. < 1315800152 417582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain renders images near instantaneously. < 1315800170 343255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite so good at HTML parsing though. < 1315800186 608679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, "executing". displaying? what is the verb? < 1315800206 620654 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Rendering :P < 1315800207 584798 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But telnet is likely to be supported, as well as gopher menus (but not all gopher types; the minimum requirements are types 0, 1, and 7; and that should be good enough) < 1315800218 647748 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315800238 387335 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, what has become of Rezzo? we need more warriors. I need more time. < 1315800284 643088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The operating system will be stored in ROM BIOS and is not readable unless you trigger NMI. < 1315800294 96147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nothing has become of it, it's stagnating. < 1315800306 704466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Rezzo? < 1315800306 878622 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard drive and optical drive are also completely inaccessible unless you trigger NMI. < 1315800308 936620 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got tired writing my warrior, because as it turns out it's an enormous pain X-D < 1315800319 140576 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not dead, it's stagnant! :P < 1315800347 67615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps it could be redesigned? < 1315800363 726091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It probably could, but I'm yet to think of how. < 1315800369 843032 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or put any effort into thinking of how :P ) < 1315800371 664169 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, network access shall also be inaccessible unless NMI. < 1315800377 655122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably being no 2D would make it less of a pain I think. < 1315800393 150615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically, complete redo everything. :P < 1315800486 732248 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Being no 2D" < 1315800529 370511 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1315800596 587504 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it will not be too large or too heavy to defenestrate; in case you care. But I don't recommend it unless you intend to test its physical properties) < 1315800600 335225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: s/no/not (and Gregor is a silly dong) / < 1315800631 795642 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Are you suggesting that it become 1D, which is terrible, or 3D, which is even more terrible? < 1315800644 41090 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could be neither. < 1315800658 705605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in like, redesign the objective and the environment entirely. < 1315800667 236886 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1315800672 17927 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that dimensions no longer make sense. < 1315800740 296132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other possibilities, I suppose. < 1315800776 832199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, have some electromusic: http://codu.org/tmp/drell2-2011-09-11-2.ogg < 1315800777 39056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCM_C_HOOK_NORMAL < 1315800777 199082 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think adding or removing complexity from the original design will not make it more fun to write programs for. < 1315800777 359111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of hook for which all the registered functions will always be called. < 1315800777 519277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCM_C_HOOK_OR < 1315800777 519538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of hook for which the sequence of registered functions will be called only until one of them returns C true (a non-NULL pointer). < 1315800777 519647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCM_C_HOOK_AND < 1315800779 112333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of hook for which the sequence of registered functions will be called only until one of them returns C false (a NULL pointer). < 1315800783 932034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't offered for the scheme functions wtf < 1315800822 436170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ten seconds in, i like this < 1315800835 545562 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"20 seconds in, it's garbage" < 1315800854 116919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315800895 76885 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you working on? < 1315800898 204386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what tools are you using to produce this < 1315800908 930799 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Rosegarden and VSTi's. < 1315800918 59848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: mcmap... it's a thing. If you don't play Minecraft, you probably don't care. < 1315800933 653954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you ever tried using csound? I'm not masochistic enough... < 1315800943 581099 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have not :P < 1315800960 660973 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Although I like the wonderful possibilities w.r.t. repeatability. < 1315800965 269380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this is nice < 1315800976 385433 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've managed to resist minecraft since my first 16-hour exposure to it, but I'm curious about most things that involve Scheme < 1315800983 933230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I have read about Csound, I like it. But there could be a preprocessor to work with MML and other kind of macros stuff too < 1315800991 680704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Two and a half minutes in or so, the little pulse in the background sounds remarkable like an electric guitar :P < 1315801004 30291 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1315801017 910303 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm super-proud of the low-fi piano. < 1315801021 647022 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically munged that myself. < 1315801064 191220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a music synthesis program in QBASIC that make WAV file output. < 1315801076 797113 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That ... is terrifying. < 1315801077 497144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: mcmap is basically a proxy that sits between a badly-coded Minecraft client and a badly-coded Minecraft server. (The badly-codedness is irrelevant to everything except the fact that we have to deal with it on our end). It provides a fancy map with isometricness and all sorts of deep cross-section poking. It also used to provide its most commonly-used feature, an arbitrary teleportation command, but the server code got /slightly/ better an < 1315801077 738463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d that stopped working. I'm working on binding Guile to it, so that you'll be able to script all sorts of fun commands and automation and custom proxying. < 1315801090 519947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ya go :P < 1315801114 211453 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! thanks for the summary :) < 1315801137 926425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input is a text file describing instrument sound and notes to play, volume of notes, and so on; it is more limited than most programs, but does allow some things that most other program do not have, including to define any temperament. < 1315801144 374313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Faust is interesting in that it's a functional audio processing language. < 1315801145 560445 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does aspect have a highlight on "SCM" or what :P < 1315801151 533879 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it has like 4 basic combinators. < 1315801159 703795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: The Scheme bit isn't really relevant to being Scheme, but all the other good-to-embed languages are terrible :P < 1315801160 186825 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually used scheme in anger for about four years, but the recent press around guile has got me itching to build something in it and see just how good the FFI and freedesktop-y stuff actually is < 1315801170 18464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freedesktop-y stuff is terrible, as a rule. < 1315801195 35113 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdg-open wtf://kill/elliott < 1315801195 828732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guile isn't really what I'd pick for a standalone implementation, to be perfectly honest. But it has a very nice C interface. < 1315801258 976334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, I say nice. < 1315801259 321581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/mcmap/blob/guile/scheme.c < 1315801261 322140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not all that nice. :p < 1315801262 807008 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a user, that much is obvious. I've a nagging hope staying with me that I can replace some of the most annoying freedesktop and dbus monstrosities with some of my own code without too much pain -- originally this was to be done in Tcl but I'm wondering if Guile will make it a bit easier < 1315801266 162782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't hideously surprising. < 1315801268 447507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer design I was discussing, it is also the idea, in Forth and BASIC, if a URL is completely omitted it assumes you meant "tape:" < 1315801278 613603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: Most of the time, you don't have to replace it. < 1315801285 361187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like PulseAudio; you can just drop it and absolutely nothing gets worse. < 1315801338 210234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is that electric-guitary sound meant to be piano? :P < 1315801338 474861 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :without PA I don't sem to have a convenient way to default output to bluetooth iff it is present < 1315801362 472663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: I'm sure you could script that by just triggering on bluetooth state changing. < 1315801367 120917 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nono, it /started/ as a piano. < 1315801372 447925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol < 1315801387 386663 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315801406 907912 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true. But the blessed way to receive bluetooth events seems to be via dbus < 1315801492 262046 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAS KITTY < 1315801516 589057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: Well, dbus is relatively unavoidable, but thankfully dbus is not all that bad. < 1315801521 542929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the xorg stuff... < 1315801550 161082 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only things that are blessed are the objects of Perl. < 1315801561 320218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sings a Gregor-ian chant.
< 1315801562 343913 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315802145 258726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1315802145 418460 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1315802151 164398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: make me into flour < 1315802151 480188 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, the alavanos, mendiluce and titley reports submitted to us on social rights and the principles which i have tried it out on other innocent parties. < 1315802205 189863 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: tognuf < 1315802205 936704 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: madam president, i think that we must hope that a compromise will be given the opportunity to discuss the problem of farmers' quotas, would lead to legislation whereby programs used to run equipment became patentable. it would be in trouble. the applicant countries to continue giving their support. < 1315802230 201469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: tognu F. < 1315802230 977806 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, in the best egyptian judicial traditions has now been put off to friday. but i want my money back'. we know it generally deals with major infrastructure projects which could form part of the emergency package for korea, on christmas eve, in the interests of consumers and the environment of gmos. < 1315802439 403708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote CakeProphet: mr president, in the best egyptian judicial traditions has now been put off to friday. but i want my money back'. we know it generally deals with major infrastructure projects which could form part of the emergency package for korea, on christmas eve, in the interests of consumers and the environment of gmos. < 1315802440 923848 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, i wish to raise, namely that it is able, to assume responsibilities and commitments in the context of an anti-smoking policy, reduce and even ban tobacco imports. it should not be done away with. it is quite definitely a greenhouse effect. recently a small movement has emerged in record time. this is the case with italy. on the proposal, not only politically responsible, but also on the question of portfo < 1315802441 503619 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :652) CakeProphet: mr president, in the best egyptian judicial traditions has now been put off to friday. but i want my money back'. we know it generally deals with major infrastructure projects which could form part of the emergency package for korea, on christmas eve, in the interests of consumers and the environment of gmos. < 1315802471 401804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can sg merge implicitly? < 1315802474 887247 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nub . permutations $ "elliott" < 1315802476 365846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["elliott","leliott","lleiott","illeott","lileott","llieott","iellott","eil... < 1315802476 525718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are merges only caused by a changeset? < 1315802478 54145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latter < 1315802481 836047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1315802486 320603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the talk of whitelisting things seems to imply not < 1315802493 838390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as changes would merge into a branch without a changeset commit < 1315802503 383499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a merge is itself a patch, so it doesn't come into being spontaneously < 1315802525 848181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitelisting things and merging them might be bundled together into a command as it'd be a useful thing to combine < 1315802535 248700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the two concepts make sense on their own < 1315802535 408719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but the point is that a major advantage is lost < 1315802541 477421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which major advantage? < 1315802544 903158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you can commit a bug fix to master and have it automatically merge into branches < 1315802548 164699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without doing anything < 1315802550 534962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's compatible < 1315802557 702823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that isn't even a merge < 1315802565 245155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need an explicit merge if there's a conflict < 1315802571 454438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about merges at the lower sense < 1315802577 26454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fair enough < 1315802579 98774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, those are implicit < 1315802581 609401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1315802584 631557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when conflicts are involved < 1315802586 433741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :merges only happen in a changeset, you can see it in the apply function I defined < 1315802587 453554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having both patches involved < 1315802597 273362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the changeset itself changes according to an algo < 1315802605 583554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an answer, there is no changeset < 1315802610 176095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether whitelist or take-all-from-master or etc < 1315802617 758947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, with no changeset, there is no repo < 1315802621 156940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a repo /is/ a changeset, right? < 1315802627 544834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1315802633 500895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not what a changeset is < 1315802640 507668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset :: Set Change -> Change < 1315802646 925757 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar changesetsets < 1315802651 297230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how you do something more than just inserting one line in a commit < 1315802731 109614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's definitely a model inconsistency here < 1315802731 377606 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, so the set of all changes *is* a change? < 1315802747 379522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: if you don't understand scapegoat, you won't understand talk about scapegoat :) < 1315802747 586112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, a repo is one of those too < 1315802757 944111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it's not; at least if it is, it's just started being one < 1315802760 997581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's never been one before < 1315802767 585218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what was the definition before? < 1315802773 410640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of us is confused, and I'm willing to admit it's me < 1315802778 300466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like evidence < 1315802790 394589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what? < 1315802797 344876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me being confused rather than you < 1315802802 217664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what was the definition? < 1315802810 782109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what? < 1315802820 919800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a repo < 1315802836 732631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an object database < 1315802844 94190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I'm thinking of a branch < 1315802851 358880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a branch is a subset of all changes developed according to an algo < 1315802857 549047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are mistaking the fact that a repository contains a set of changes for the fact that there is a changetype that consists of a set of other changes < 1315802868 553828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the difference between a branch and a changeset is that changesets are explicit changes made by listing other changes < 1315802874 546606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and branches are implicit and generated according to an algo < 1315802882 571961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed? < 1315802910 184180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but this seems like "and the difference between an apple and an orange is that an orange is orange rather than green and also totally different" < 1315802971 874514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your "merges only happen in a changeset" is misleading, the whole point is that you can calculate the result of any set of changes < 1315802974 626838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's a changeset or not < 1315802980 550173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so low-level merges should happen in branches too < 1315803037 974539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK < 1315803057 875674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with that is that merges might not even /appear/ in the history of a branch < 1315803067 527606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which causes problems for (a) viewing the history, and (b) things like bisect < 1315803068 862272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they shouldn't < 1315803085 479144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that bisect is a bit of a problem, as you're trying to bisect an unordered history < 1315803106 211686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for proper bisection, though, instead of having merges, you should have a history of which patches were considered part of the branch < 1315803108 287617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then bisect that history < 1315803116 209062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't that the real history? < 1315803129 369445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense, it is < 1315803132 367759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, implicit merges are scary for various reasons, which is why typical branches shouldn't get them; I'm wondering if they're a good idea at /all/ < 1315803152 704729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, they only happen if the branch is set up to automatically include patches < 1315803161 531854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is something you were in favour of and I was against, IIRC < 1315803180 161481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're explicitly whitelisting, you only get an implicit merge as a result of a whitelist operation < 1315803201 791632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the problem with explicit merges is that in git, you're supposed to edit them out, and you have huge numbers of them in a normal workflow < 1315803233 420579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to edit out branch merges in git? really? < 1315803239 383141 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to say something stupid
< 1315803239 787672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have like fifty of them in the Guile branch < 1315803246 18239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: too late, go on < 1315803278 844302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near impossible to use a trackpad with wet fingers, even if you tried to dry them off < 1315803281 917295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is part of the reason I dislike git fans < 1315803292 539548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1315803294 578063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to "make the history neater" or something, and so that various tools will work properly < 1315803308 796956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that merge commits are ugly, but that's a tool problem, IMO < 1315803320 752372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tools won't work properly if you don't prettify history? < 1315803325 535162 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.... disturbing < 1315803331 767888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I think I know what we should do < 1315803345 937071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whitelist should be represented as a changeset, as they're the same concept < 1315803361 728890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, the dependency chains of that changeset is how you do bisection and visualise merges for the history < 1315803378 498256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe a branch is just a changeset, then; or rather, a computation of a changeset < 1315803384 535646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but wait < 1315803386 967076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just be a _change_ < 1315803391 28735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tip is a branch; the tip is also a change < 1315803397 229864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dependency of that changes is the rest of the tip branch < 1315803399 705965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a branch can only have one head < 1315803404 215261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what makes it a branch, after all < 1315803408 78191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a branch is a computation producing a change < 1315803413 575539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that change could be a changeset, though) < 1315803418 346513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but usually, it's just the latest commit in the branch) < 1315803423 157653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's more general and makes sense < 1315803450 120125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... a changeset is isomorphic to that changeset, plus all its dependencies < 1315803454 484882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed plus any of its dependencies < 1315803462 697317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, maybe changes are groups?? < 1315803467 937738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're obviously monoids < 1315803483 134295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, we have to make this mathematical! < 1315803499 326295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the identity element is obviously just the null change < 1315803500 804524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {}, say < 1315803516 178888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does every change have an inverse, such that changeset {c, c'} ~ changeset {}? < 1315803522 441847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think yes, and I think if the answer is no, that's a bug < 1315803558 286273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of one that doesn't < 1315803571 230277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about those reassign-hash things? < 1315803590 373029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reassign it again < 1315803605 829946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right < 1315803632 75979 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315803635 742985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(delete C)' = C < 1315803637 443716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315803639 641785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lovely < 1315803672 212024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, changes are at least an abelian group < 1315803677 672446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty good sign < 1315803684 114961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they're a ring, at least I can't think of a sane + < 1315803684 771266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1315803693 60550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but abelian groups are still pretty good :P < 1315803720 179357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, how does one reify an intent for a hash-reassign commit? < 1315803721 545538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds really hard < 1315803742 368709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can't produce good merge commits in sg just by giving it the final product < 1315803743 96792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to remember what hash-reassign commits were for < 1315803749 626352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: solving conflicts < 1315803772 390430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, "changes to version A should be edited into this version from version B" < 1315803792 859148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always been kind of uneasy about them < 1315803807 710536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "reify intent", again? < 1315803809 572634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they're needed at all? Changes have inverses; you could just do changeset {A, B, invert of part of A, invert of part of B, additional stufF} < 1315803833 220849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's a general term; in the context of sg, it's going from before + after to a change that tries to represent the user's intent in editing < 1315803844 654436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to resolve a commit, you need to produce hash-reassign commits; or at least that's the status quo < 1315803848 548959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was my original plan; the idea's that say we both make the same change < 1315803852 644468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems very difficult to reify that intent < 1315803859 559412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the merge resolves the change in favour of my version < 1315803863 410242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, without an additional merge tool that takes additional info < 1315803867 379109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha, I know how you reify it < 1315803875 276064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the before is two conflicting versions < 1315803878 115650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the after, one version < 1315803881 708467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315803898 819614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reified by diffing the after to each of the befores, and finding lines that are conflicting in the befores but the same in the before and the after < 1315803916 486197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. lines that were in conflict, but not changed by the conflict resolution < 1315803921 531927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there are none? < 1315803937 957428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hash-reassign commits probably aren't needed < 1315803941 783621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the purpose of conflict solution < 1315803943 793153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you mean it'll apply cleanly < 1315803961 41270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, say we're using line-based diff < 1315803964 117046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've always been a bit uneasy about them, though... is there a case when they help more than just including a partial inverse? < 1315803965 138859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the original line is a = x; < 1315803970 521382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you write a = x + i; < 1315803974 39299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I write a = x + j; < 1315803982 569300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the conflict fix is a = x + i + j; < 1315803999 538481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are no hash-reassign commits, because any edit to the x+i or x+j line can't easily be translated in terms of the x+i+j line < 1315804016 26302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious case when they help more is if we both make the exact same change < 1315804026 230502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious conflict fix there is to include that fix once < 1315804026 392349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315804027 430956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second < 1315804029 891294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me diagram this out < 1315804034 720983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1315804037 276168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABC: a = x; < 1315804037 657406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1315804041 616226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEF: a = x + i; < 1315804043 605660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1315804050 455227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AEC: a = x + i + j; < 1315804051 129850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1315804060 868360 :ive!~nn@189.179.241.111 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1315804062 806283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, replace ??? with "a = x + i + j;"} < 1315804066 114843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ??? ABC or DEF? < 1315804075 228561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315804081 994152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, delete ABC, replace DEF with "a = x + i + j;"} < 1315804086 739358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, delete DEF, replace ABC with "a = x + i + j;"} < 1315804091 831863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem here, is that we want to /unify/ ABC and DEF < 1315804101 424137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1315804102 483478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait < 1315804102 645722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1315804104 163189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, delete ABC, delete DEF, insert between X1 and X2 "a = x + i + j;"} < 1315804106 735294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of a eureka < 1315804109 337399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of a eureka < 1315804112 130131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that merges terribly < 1315804113 810146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what we need < 1315804120 322964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point is it's meant to merge terribly < 1315804124 374499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, wait, _listen_ < 1315804151 321062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1315804153 461674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a change "unify A and B as C"; what it means is, A and B are deleted, _but_, whenever they are mentioned, consider it a mention to C instead < 1315804154 841740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I stopped talking < 1315804164 634564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315804170 716936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a change "unify A and B as STRING"; what it means is, A and B are deleted, _but_, whenever they are mentioned, consider it a mention to this change instead < 1315804171 717761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's basically a special case of a hash-reassign < 1315804176 41906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't < 1315804182 194334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it does it to /all/ changes < 1315804200 296837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, here's what it looks like: < 1315804203 741857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does a hash-reassign, that's the point < 1315804217 612243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, unify ABC and DEF as DEF, (DEF) insert "a = x + i + j;" between X0 and Xone} < 1315804235 603753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how can you express that with a hash-reassign without deleting ABC or DEF? < 1315804236 729509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, why have you given two different commits the same hash? < 1315804241 390814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315804244 972894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the example there shouldn't have a hash-reassign < 1315804248 831152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {ABC, DEF, unify ABC and DEF as QQQ, (QQQ) insert "a = x + i + j;" between X0 and Xone} < 1315804250 537654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should < 1315804252 875751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, say ABC and DEF are identical but for metadata < 1315804258 898290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/then/ you should have a hash-reassign < 1315804260 215241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise the history is broken < 1315804274 880842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say, someone decides to replace "a = x + i;" with "a = x + i*2;" in my version < 1315804283 529087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but you are essentially arguing "they shouldn't merge" on no grounds other than maybe "it should break so the developer can look at it beacuse there's been a merge there" < 1315804283 790117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should that automatically replace the whole, merged line with "a = x + i*2;" < 1315804285 723378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, no < 1315804287 885108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a good reason to tarnish the history forever < 1315804290 567684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABC and DEf weren't deleted < 1315804293 354712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were merged < 1315804316 374774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think, obviously yes < 1315804323 797459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "wrong", but that's for the merger to fix < 1315804326 688839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not how programming works at all < 1315804328 829117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it overwrote your change < 1315804331 977463 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1315804349 34662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg will inevitably overwrite changes < 1315804357 660758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it won't < 1315804364 684949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it will, per the Merging Full Employment Theorem < 1315804381 309393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't disregard a change from a file just because a different line that was merged with it was changed < 1315804383 328716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Merging/Merger/ < 1315804391 452048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the problem is that this example is far too small < 1315804392 388601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the merge of A+B produces something that's neither A nor B < 1315804403 546279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need an example C function to do examples on :) < 1315804406 719294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in general, you don't know what A'+B is < 1315804415 708721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let me go write one in a pastebin < 1315804420 54692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: noo, I was going to < 1315804428 691527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, in fact < 1315804431 562431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll see what I'm getting at < 1315804441 852970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant a generic one, for all merge talks < 1315804521 743065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting, though < 1315804593 120589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...are you guys trying to make merges completely unsupervised? < 1315804606 788091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what < 1315804631 196123 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in. you don't have to manually merge ever. < 1315804637 223856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1315804778 221206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TICU?c < 1315804811 829271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are A and B equal? < 1315804867 560895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1315804869 521549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except for metadata < 1315804914 578569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK, you've defeated me :) < 1315804920 505348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think we need more interesting examples of conflicts < 1315804922 661308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over multiple lines < 1315804952 147256 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make changes to the same file in an existing repo at the same time. < 1315804953 890843 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun and profit. < 1315805048 430724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does [d| type T = $(return $ TupleT 3) |] results in error about cycle in type synonym declaration? < 1315805113 889894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a cycle in the type synonym declaration. < 1315805132 835268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so anyway, do you still think we need hash changes? < 1315805140 816325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly wondering whether partial reverts are ever worse < 1315805177 207953 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But there isn't. It does that regardless of type name and regardless of the expression in $() even if it is not a Q Type expression. < 1315805179 337362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what is the error in full? < 1315805212 956036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you get the A'+B+conflict resolution 1 case without them? < 1315805214 728741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried 0 instead of 3 it is same error regardless. < 1315805220 918832 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, is your use of return/TupleT intentional for stylistic purposes or do you not know of tupleT (Int -> Q Type)? < 1315805222 157390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason I wanted them was for move-within-file changes < 1315805232 8282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an entirely different use for the same thing < 1315805237 521014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeing two uses for one thing left me convinced < 1315805242 785621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weren't part of the original sg concept, though < 1315805244 756964 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most if not all TH constructors have versions that work something like that < 1315805272 51964 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cycle in type synonym declarations: :1:5-33: type T = $(return $ TupleT 0) In the Template Haskell quotation [d| type T = $(return $ TupleT 0) |] In the expression: [d| type T = $(return $ TupleT 0) |] In an equation for `it': it = [d| type T = $(return $ TupleT 0) |] < 1315805282 866262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure, the differences are subtle enough that I find this hard to read, but I'll give it a try < 1315805290 275949 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315805309 950512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, let's see < 1315805317 871467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doing it with argv is a little silly; the intended use there would be for an AIish program where you're adding more factors into an evaluation algorithm < 1315805326 521273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? argv?? < 1315805335 641966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315805337 929515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1315805346 122315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant that they're like switching numbers and stuff < 1315805348 340510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to keep track :) < 1315805348 934404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1315805380 905612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {A, B, delete MAINLINE_A, delete MAINLINE_B, insert "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2]);" between ORIGINAL_PROTOTYPE and ORIGINAL_CLOSEBRACE} < 1315805385 707164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a+b+conflict resolution patch one < 1315805390 832469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A' is < 1315805402 600682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace MAINLINE_A with "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2])*2;" < 1315805415 408653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, now _your_ algo silently wipes out that change < 1315805437 203043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what change is it silently wiping out? < 1315805440 98475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A' < 1315805460 499582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A'+B+conflict res 1 is identical to A' < 1315805464 707981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should be, because A was identical to B < 1315805505 763967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> changeset {A, B, delete MAINLINE_A, delete MAINLINE_B, insert "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2]);" between ORIGINAL_PROTOTYPE and ORIGINAL_CLOSEBRACE} < 1315805505 943125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> that's a+b+conflict resolution patch one < 1315805506 103234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> A' is < 1315805506 103408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> replace MAINLINE_A with "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2])*2;" < 1315805518 897715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {A',B,conflict res 1} now... oh, conflicts < 1315805521 361642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MAINLINE_A doesn't exist < 1315805523 494263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, yes it does < 1315805525 939280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just replace < 1315805526 207687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1315805528 701416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets deleted < 1315805535 247652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2]);" inserted in its place < 1315805541 174103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, your algorithm _can_ wipe out changes < 1315805549 697146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what change is being wiped out? < 1315805553 234072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : replace MAINLINE_A with "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2])*2;" < 1315805565 695857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that change is still in the result < 1315805571 952147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1315805582 162613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I made a typo < 1315805582 473102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset {A, replace MAINLINE_A with "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2])*2;", B, delete MAINLINE_A, delete MAINLINE_B, insert "return atoi(argv[1])+atoi(argv[2]);" between ORIGINAL_PROTOTYPE and ORIGINAL_CLOSEBRACE} < 1315805587 878787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder you're confused < 1315805591 235301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shown as wiped out in that example < 1315805591 396203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that replacement still in the result? < 1315805593 52589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it shouldn't be < 1315805595 245622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1315805601 881851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me repaste < 1315805633 911879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suppose you are a former INTERCAL hacker and you truly miss the < 1315805634 241331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :language." < 1315805634 401706 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in case there's no way to fix it, have you tried $(tySynD (mkName "T") [] (tupleT 0)) ? < 1315805637 107522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't expect to see that < 1315805637 762723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/iidQ?c (better?) < 1315805676 338136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it looks OK... but I still think this one-line example is completely impossible to follow, cognitively < 1315805682 942921 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I did that wrong < 1315805704 421357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never worked with Dec splices before. < 1315805705 783629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, is anyone any good at debugging Scheme macros? < 1315805708 366076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: change that line to ten copies of itself, if you like < 1315805713 785008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't help :) < 1315805730 86826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, OK < 1315805731 421914 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: OK, but is it a bug in GHC? Even if it is supposed to be error, the error message is wrong. < 1315805732 177284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's right < 1315805733 742636 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the macro? I don't have much experience with debugging them but maybe I can notice something < 1315805747 268422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: < 1315805748 259209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define-syntax on-packet < 1315805748 585667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (syntax-rules () < 1315805748 745635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((on-packet origin (type binding) ...) < 1315805748 745801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook! < 1315805748 745908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (packet-hook 'type) < 1315805749 812105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda (from binding) < 1315805751 821423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (or (eq? 'origin 'any) (eq? from 'origin)) < 1315805753 825747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (begin ...))))))) < 1315805754 89645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm guessing it's a problem with [d||] quotes < 1315805755 982367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ge < 1315805757 809762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1315805759 949036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build/../scheme/init.scm:8:2: syntax: missing ellipsis in form (syntax (add-hook! (packet-hook (quote type)) (lambda (from binding) (if (or (eq? (quote origin) (quote any)) (eq? from (quote origin))) (begin ...))))) < 1315805769 129434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, OK, I think you're right < 1315805786 431274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still wish we could do without hash-changing commits though... I don't know, I realise they cause no _problems_, but they feel like a wedge in the language < 1315805792 78746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that typo < 1315805798 776951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they /change the interpretation/ of commits they're not "directly" linked to, e.g. just adjacent in the same changeset < 1315805806 411691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you have to keep some sort of state < 1315805808 47103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd be glad to consider other solutions to the same problem < 1315805812 974226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does just Does Not Gel With Me < 1315805816 952188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/does just/just does/ < 1315805820 75525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/just does/just/ < 1315805836 904679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know the reason you're uneasy < 1315805838 736882 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 < 1315805839 259175 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:36:33 AM] a shame zzo38 didn't stick around < 1315805839 422359 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:36:37 AM] I see what his problem was :) < 1315805841 271705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a search-and-replace commit < 1315805855 740089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that replaces all instances of "foo" with "bar" < 1315805876 442492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes made in other repos that add "foo" should change to adding "bar" when merged with it < 1315805889 451857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/but/, changes made with knowledge of the foo->bar commit that add "foo" should still add "foo" < 1315805895 724706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "with knowledge" isn't recorded anywhere < 1315805900 707619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315805910 917262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think search-and-replace changes should exist, you probably agree but I'm just noting this) < 1315805911 406121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can see where the problem is, but I cannot deduce the fix because I do not know what you are trying to do. If I knew the intended syntax and result of the macro I may be able to fix it < 1315805913 206067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is a general problem with change-interpretation patches < 1315805924 110683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what's the problem, out of curiosity? < 1315805927 923868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the intent is: < 1315805935 597912 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad usage of ... < 1315805940 101834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://sprunge.us/GPJA < 1315805946 39331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :above is syntax, below is desire < 1315805950 65507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of commits-not-directly-linked-to, the same problem doesn't occur as if you're referring to the old hash, it can only be because you don't know it's been superseded < 1315805969 218717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But really, my main problem with it, beyond general uneasiness about ugliness and ... sheer brute-force-ness, is that it means the "apply" function must take state. < 1315805971 187691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you'd refer to the new one instead if you had knowledge of the hash-replacement < 1315805971 780043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the hash remapping. < 1315805975 891186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right in that it's a bit ugly < 1315805986 243732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is horrible, because source + patch should → target or failure. < 1315805989 426812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to consider other solutions to the same problem < 1315805993 82630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you said < 1315805995 992469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any, though < 1315806001 288947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1315806009 505941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "delete X with heir Y"? < 1315806011 934147 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315806022 252167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it deletes X, but any changes that reference X /indirectly/ use Y instead < 1315806022 745955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm not against search-and-replace patches if they can be made to work, but I'm not sure they can be < 1315806023 907667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by indirectly < 1315806024 577595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1315806028 725831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't change Y < 1315806034 8189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, e.g., a before or after-hash is an indirect reference < 1315806042 150292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is the start/end (source and destination) of a move hash < 1315806044 687530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a replace, insert, delete, etc. < 1315806056 818040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the operation isn't just "for X use Y" but "delete X and refer to Y instead" < 1315806082 345508 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: the ... in the body of your macro doesn't correspond to any useful pattern to repeat. (begin begin begin) obviously isn't what you mean < 1315806091 909224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1315806095 911390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: ah < 1315806101 714458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: I'm obviously confused about how ... works... < 1315806110 97128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that resolves the fundamental problems, though < 1315806113 252039 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315806122 287188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use … instead? < 1315806125 367944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it feels ugly to me too < 1315806126 817259 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM (syntax-rules () ((on-packet origin (type binding) body ...) and then (begin body ...) < 1315806130 460501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have what i think is the fix: replace both instances of "..." with ". action" < 1315806133 649625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: oh, thanks < 1315806142 303252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that seems less nice than aspect's < 1315806145 852785 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect's fix would work too < 1315806146 678158 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo body ...) is similar to (foo . tail) < 1315806167 915545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1315806169 213980 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... gives you some more flexibility on the rewrite form < 1315806170 932678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to both of you < 1315806179 439135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if it works :P < 1315806224 604173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not quite... but it's a weird bug so it's probably mine < 1315806234 845478 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might run into some hygeine issues with what you're trying here < 1315806237 665816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there we go < 1315806248 368969 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION strokes chin and thinks
< 1315806250 446254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: Really? The only thing I bind is named in the macro usage. < 1315806252 480481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it works. < 1315806268 579734 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true, that should be ok < 1315806302 731297 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eq? 'origin 'any) is an odd condition < 1315806318 788632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's so that you can say < 1315806319 182220 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're quoting 'type ... < 1315806322 486403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on-packet any (chat ...) ...) < 1315806327 350153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting type is correct < 1315806346 165236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you say (packet-hook 'chat) < 1315806383 580292 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably need to put a full-brian to understanding this < 1315806390 25613 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't atm with work on :/ < 1315806397 373052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel,l it works now, so you can just ignore it ;-) < 1315806404 171383 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that quoting strikes me as wrong < 1315806408 135052 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even better :) < 1315806423 270066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the quoting is right -- I want to check whether the passed "origin" is any < 1315806425 131574 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a better way < 1315806435 547907 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can write it out < 1315806450 317098 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy has the power < 1315806553 365412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im wait, < 1315806555 661484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it's not so better because it gets a bit messy? but the idea is to --i don't know how to describe this-- make any a keyword for the macro by putting it in the () after syntax-rules and then pattern matching against it at some point < 1315806562 755062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forget how to do this cleanly < 1315806573 959273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the problem is that I'd have to duplicate all the code, I think? < 1315806575 803354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong < 1315806579 367128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm I can think of a way < 1315806625 169084 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would syntax-case work? < 1315806628 740453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a thing right < 1315806640 874155 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it :( < 1315806646 979556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define-syntax on-packet < 1315806647 186520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (syntax-rules (any) < 1315806647 346535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((on-packet (any from) (type binding) body ...) < 1315806647 346707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook! < 1315806647 346825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (packet-hook 'type) < 1315806647 977931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda (from binding) < 1315806649 910423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (begin body ...)))) < 1315806651 979229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((on-packet origin (type binding) body ...) < 1315806653 834054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (on-packet (any from) (type binding) < 1315806656 129068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (eq? from 'origin) < 1315806657 842089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (begin body ...)))) < 1315806659 962868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1315806661 974167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck < 1315806663 927129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1315806666 755395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be a better way < 1315806729 109002 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315806753 691788 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-case can do everything, but nobodt knows how to use it, except some #scheme weirdoes. < 1315806761 934811 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315806779 293283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315806782 879295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oleg < 1315806818 801242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a local macro or whatever it's called with let-syntax or something like that might be able to make it a tiny bit nicer... < 1315806857 329077 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :can oleg write a program so obscure that he cannot understand it? < 1315806880 17191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~dyb/pubs/tr356.pdf < 1315806891 128951 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :google sure is neat. < 1315806905 424239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol @ being a jackass at someone clearly joking < 1315806922 61420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what I really want is a nicer way to dereference fields... :( < 1315806927 767661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(packet-field packet 'message) is not the most concise thing < 1315806969 149870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1315806982 954540 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define p-f packet-field), of course. < 1315807019 97534 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoop, 9 characters of conciseness for free! < 1315807042 701806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, the fizzie is here too. < 1315807047 272578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was... I was going to ask the fizzie a question. < 1315807069 412095 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for long; I should be bicycling to wurk right about now. < 1315807298 416932 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ho, Guile manual actually has a human-readable syntax-case description, with datum->syntax "this is how you introduce a binding" examples: http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Syntax-Case.html < 1315807324 920596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeedy. < 1315807482 922270 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set! packet (lambda (arg) (packet-field packet arg))) < 1315807498 939402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: Groooooooooooooooooooss. < 1315807536 439005 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably prettier than record types < 1315807556 446797 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stomp all over le hygiene < 1315807567 812085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ba_ha = 2 in 2 < 1315807568 536362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1315807578 29113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all packets come from a common source you could wrap them there, rather than mutating them like that?? < 1315807580 797324 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I_am_going_to_write_all_Haskell_identifiers_like_this_from_now_on < 1315807619 341959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever see that style used. < 1315807637 234251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :best-haskell-identifier-style < 1315807647 170707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: eh? < 1315807655 437942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what aspect was getting at. < 1315807668 312005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let what-is-this-help = 2 in what-is-this-help < 1315807668 810834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1315807684 292572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my line was suggesting a clean alternative < 1315807702 550199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nevermind. I was going to disagree and say that syntax errors are wonderful. < 1315807710 269053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dis// < 1315807722 507215 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I disagree completely. < 1315807729 740425 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1315807762 561705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you miss the joke? or do you disagree with the serious part? < 1315807860 420385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what joke? I am serious business right now. < 1315807882 688359 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it not being valid haskell identifier syntax was the joke < 1315807903 476336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the serious part is that having identifiers like that is how I'd prefer things < 1315807954 935464 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :best—haskell—identifier—style < 1315807974 960938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best haskell identifier style < 1315807988 962042 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1315808012 144054 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah spaces sure are a bad delimiter for words. < 1315808073 643283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use spaces in variable names in Algol 68 < 1315808108 752817 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(string->symbol "The best identifier of all!") < 1315808134 287277 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best part is you can bind a name like T to that in your code, so if you want to translate your identifier names it's a one-place operation < 1315808180 633625 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what languages do this but in some you can have identifiers of the form |spaces are permitted here| < 1315808255 794184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp < 1315808299 146163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was < 1315808332 387907 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let some　variable=1 in some　variable < 1315808332 709001 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rings bells from scheme but apparently not in gambit, which is the only impl I seem to have installed on this laptop < 1315808333 111688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `variable' < 1315808335 653378 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1315808358 596784 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let �=1 in � < 1315808359 255447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1315808380 538360 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have encountered it in reading draft 1 of the r7rs spec? maybe? < 1315808399 968668 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been r6rs surely if it were scheme < 1315808408 264348 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1315808421 973737 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got disgusted with scheme by the time r6rs was a few months old
< 1315808433 151136 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Dash will be Google's replacement for Javascript? < 1315808440 622349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes they don't fuck it up
< 1315808441 872916 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never payed much attention to r6rs < 1315808457 926490 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I hope they allow - in variable names < 1315808475 377248 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :r6 made me cry < 1315808493 982190 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I discovered tcl and was enlightened < 1315808580 790329 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tcl good < 1315808627 679817 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps surprisingly, it's quite wonderful < 1315808651 909021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lambdas < 1315808656 756648 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1315808661 813214 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are problems of course, but a refreshingsimplicity which gives rise to a lot of nice things < 1315808662 849222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use of the worst data structure as code < 1315808672 978216 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1315808678 305499 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EIS < 1315808683 479440 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :true homoiconicity < 1315808692 854518 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: http://wiki.tcl.tk/22049 < 1315808722 137227 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are lambdas of a sort, they're just not much like you expect < 1315808733 292112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nothing is a string; the widespread use of strings is an artefact of our current inadequate OS ecosystems < 1315808740 101764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, Jim had proper lambdas, but nobody uses lambdas < 1315808745 196464 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1315808750 905880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq used to use Tcl, so he can probably make arguments better than me :) < 1315808755 67469 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jim was fucked < 1315808767 457072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew strings really? ahahahahahahahahaha < 1315808768 651344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also had lambdas < 1315808789 560094 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a page on the wiki called "Jim closures", which goes on for about 500 words before pointing out they're not actually closures < 1315808793 383431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait weren't you trying to convince me that tcl is awesome? < 1315808798 859488 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cam emulate them if you add references, which are actually boxes < 1315808809 4452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, I was trying to convince you you disliked Tcl for stupid reasons < 1315808811 321281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1315808821 462280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would argue vigorously against anyone saying that Microsoft was a baby-killing machine, too < 1315808832 669041 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say "ew strings", but the result is a much friendlier language for metaprogramming than Scheme < 1315808845 251859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't see how. < 1315808855 285941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings = flat lists = structured programs = structured < 1315808858 787318 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dealing with hygiene is a little messy .... but see syntax-case < 1315808861 328306 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1315808874 625991 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1315808880 651472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315808898 201885 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: for once CakeProphet is right < 1315808912 585717 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings + quoting = structured < 1315808923 527542 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you cannot deny my amazing equational reasoning < 1315808930 301307 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315808969 196843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't been following the discussion, but what about Picolisp?
< 1315808976 434170 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://wiki.tcl.tk/10259 for an explication of string structure < 1315809025 826376 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, see the first link I pasted. Less than a few hundred lines of code to turn Tcl into Scheme. Now try the reverse < 1315809028 845739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wrote some ... module thingy for Picolisp
< 1315809034 988281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never put it anyplace accessible :/ < 1315809044 893632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like scheme to me; anyway I never compared tcl to scheme < 1315809063 45837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have read the Dodekalogue. please don't assume I know nothing about Tcl < 1315809066 775580 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, I lack call/cc .. but with uplevel and a bit of cleverness, one could write call/cc as a procedure that re-writes its caller) < 1315809102 438222 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dodekalogue link was more for CakeProphet < 1315809113 619414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is to blame for me getting interested in Picolisp < 1315809115 564674 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't think playing-scheme looks like scheme? < 1315809144 679962 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315809151 854701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when is gensym scheme < 1315809208 360331 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds his rename code
< 1315809246 46140 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gensym is a scheme for generating symbols, duh < 1315809281 998622 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... uh... what? < 1315809313 15942 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm easily confused < 1315809342 426571 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes elliott was trolling me; if not, [Number] is the example you should be looking at -- [gensym] belongs behind the curtain
< 1315809368 112990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a very trolly troll. < 1315809484 433094 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :your name is practically an anagram for it < 1315809536 334400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :toll tie < 1315810001 91782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nyan.cat/ :3 < 1315810072 54509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me that's not a real URL < 1315810077 267235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1315810115 423420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1315810142 149887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's buttered toast and not a pop-tart < 1315810193 242264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I just opened the youtube video and this site < 1315810196 761032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyanning at the same time. < 1315810202 25314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I'm going to have a seizure. < 1315810213 348604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION closes one.
< 1315810222 391191 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315810303 537062 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315810547 105334 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal in life: get rich off of a meme. < 1315810580 63571 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315810608 497084 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you hate people like that and are secretly mocking them < 1315810685 321993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'm actually not a complete idiot. < 1315810688 335433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way. < 1315810723 219717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell with you sorry :( < 1315810751 523262 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sarcasm stealth is obscene. < 1315810767 676202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, stealthfully obscene. < 1315810774 921888 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm pretty sure that's not possible. < 1315810802 482264 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1315810802 642193 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1315810802 642310 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315810844 720710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can something be offensive and also hidden? < 1315810847 886273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1315810888 666842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :enpvfg wbxr urer < 1315810916 457509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 enpvfg wbxr urer < 1315810921 745518 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :racist joke here < 1315810945 627371 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be better hidden in a dark font < 1315810956 951724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c :( < 1315810972 613144 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hhehe ehehh < 1315810985 663315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I crack the codes. I end the war. < 1315811005 403188 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315811048 916745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other "encryption" algorithms that are self-decrypted, besides the rot* family? < 1315811137 255380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor with onetime pad < 1315811154 110385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with multipletime pad, come to think of it, but that's not a very good encryption algo < 1315811155 779279 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything with the property forall letters a, b; if a maps to b, b maps to a < 1315811160 501550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, nor is rot13) < 1315811187 829067 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: woah, you just blew my mind. < 1315811212 274412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are you xoring in that algorithm? < 1315811219 758750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plaintext with the onetime pad < 1315811227 719801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right what is a onetime pad... < 1315811242 222191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a key the same length as the message, that you only use once < 1315811242 386378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not know a lot about crytography.
< 1315811246 909097 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1315811251 921908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :short for padlock? < 1315811257 565686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's theoretically perfect encryption, the issue is in distributing the keys in the first place < 1315811257 725635 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps? < 1315811263 688999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's short for anything < 1315811263 954439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR with one time pad is as secure as the one time pad is. < 1315811284 62287 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no weaknesses. < 1315811315 120441 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A one time pad also has no inherent weaknesses; only weakness in the way the key is generated or transferred or whatever are weakness. < 1315811315 441179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.^.) < 1315811315 937810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `.^.' < 1315811322 508532 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t xor < 1315811323 102426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1315811324 440564 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The "pad" part of the name comes from early implementations where the key material was distributed as a pad of paper, so the top sheet could be easily torn off and destroyed after use." < 1315811335 852195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum cryptography is mostly focused on ingenious ways to calculate a one-time pad in such a way that you can detect whether it's known by anyone else < 1315811341 959566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not use it if it is) < 1315811345 396573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pad is short for pad, then. < 1315811352 105575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That isn't very good; you will get impressions on the next page from the writing. < 1315811367 590385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it was meant to be read rather than written on < 1315811376 244989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith "The cats out of the bag" "oskdjfuai ofjekrisoxkzlektiqoeirskdfhwerhiuhdfiuhweiuhd" < 1315811376 917698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b -> c' < 1315811377 80507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[... < 1315811386 129264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith xor "The cats out of the bag" "oskdjfuai ofjekrisoxkzlektiqoeirskdfhwerhiuhdfiuhweiuhd" < 1315811386 631264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Bits.Bits GHC.Types.Char) < 1315811386 791262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `D... < 1315811388 810529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can you read it if there is nothing written on there? < 1315811389 229892 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; you can write first and then stample the sheets into a pad. < 1315811389 389700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wat < 1315811397 494492 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand this Bits typeclass. < 1315811401 699918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That would work better. < 1315811402 774050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the information would be printed on there in advance < 1315811416 642763 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Char -> Word8 < 1315811416 981198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Internal c2w :: Char -> Word8 < 1315811417 140538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1315811417 140720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude error :: [Char] -> a < 1315811433 647008 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, is there a better way to do that? < 1315811448 994173 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (chr . xor . ord) < 1315811449 158328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? The @hoogle does not always match types properly < 1315811449 486324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Int' against inferred type `a -> a' < 1315811449 651866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `xor' < 1315811449 812200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `xor . ord' < 1315811452 6711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315811453 557512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I uh < 1315811457 501875 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :messed that one up < 1315811479 224523 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :toEnum . fromEnum < 1315811512 231624 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith xor (ord <$> "abc") (ord <$> "efg") < 1315811513 54875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4] < 1315811530 931594 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR 'ord' is just fromEnum type-restricted to Char. < 1315811550 302099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ord < 1315811550 462174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1315811554 632909 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315811555 227672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipwith (chr . (xor `on` ord)) "abc" "efg" < 1315811556 540943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `zipwith' < 1315811561 448635 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (chr . (xor `on` ord)) "abc" "efg" < 1315811562 107367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `b -> c' < 1315811562 268401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Ty... < 1315811570 669250 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1315811633 935878 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I'm bad at pointfree. :P < 1315811635 345223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> zipWith (xor `on` ord) "abcdef" "foobar" < 1315811636 36670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\a\r\f\ACK\EOT\DC4" < 1315811638 583535 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, nice escapes. < 1315811649 481026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which one is \a? alert? < 1315811654 703652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so. < 1315811659 972547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's the same as C. < 1315811671 33598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the \ACK\EOT\DC4 stuff is pretty unusual as escapes go, at least < 1315811696 394130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a .: or something? < 1315811700 592959 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently \BEL also works, but it seems to default to the one-character escapes which exist. < 1315811703 682701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) < 1315811704 371882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (g :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) < 1315811745 51577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith ( chr .: (xor `on` ord)) "hello" "GOODBYE" < 1315811747 917804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "/*#(-" < 1315811762 357717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith ( chr .: (xor `on` ord)) "/*#(-" "GOODBYE" < 1315811763 836687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello" < 1315811767 222806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1315811791 557235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (.:) < 1315811791 721835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1315811795 290461 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what is that. < 1315811814 986463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this magical nonexistant operator I just used. where is it. < 1315811815 847433 :Taneb!540d5df4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.93.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315811824 68769 :Taneb!540d5df4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.93.244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1315811828 108684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nonexistent < 1315811829 467057 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315811830 86512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. < 1315811898 733330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I wish my teacher didn't give me a participation grade for listening to a recording of the class, when the recording is partially missing. < 1315811940 977842 :Taneb!540d5df4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.93.244 QUIT :Client Quit < 1315811953 645907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315812004 965295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what is .: help < 1315812081 540119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap . fmap < 1315812082 199266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1315812094 470065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1315812162 351367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (fmap . fmap) id id < 1315812163 42602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> f a < 1315812175 369757 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id.).id < 1315812175 942180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> f a < 1315812185 840163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I'm so bad at composition. < 1315812200 504635 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id.) < 1315812200 999228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> f a < 1315812215 866550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell strikes again < 1315812228 167535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((id$).) < 1315812228 890857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> f a < 1315812238 546845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id P..) < 1315812239 541953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1315812243 401502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id Prelude..) < 1315812244 398199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1315812257 398547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1315812265 614353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1315812277 295954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaps of shortened moduled names, but the one you actually need most often... < 1315812312 359799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((1>) Prelude..) < 1315812312 587230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($) < 1315812312 851434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a. (Num t, Ord t) => (a -> t) -> a -> Bool < 1315812313 546838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1315812322 684391 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I noticed that. < 1315812336 860544 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1315812353 680180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id <<<) < 1315812354 485271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still a little confusing, but I know the idiom (f.).g < 1315812354 648531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1315812408 502327 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id < 1315812409 144143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> a < 1315812421 369557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh wait I've got it. < 1315812423 336190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id "entical" < 1315812424 380374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "entical" < 1315812429 481882 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it a bit strange that caleskell id and (.) aren't the Category id and (.) < 1315812449 953385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think caleskell is slightly older < 1315812452 763036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f.).g 1 == (f.g 1) < 1315812453 260835 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315812454 747154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1315812456 366006 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) being fmap is kind of weird < 1315812480 962851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: er no? < 1315812490 7264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh okay. < 1315812494 667580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I don't understand. :P < 1315812516 901164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sometimes it's easier to think in terms of fmap and the Functor instance for (a ->) when constructing those sorts of things < 1315812533 994560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl ((f.).g) x y < 1315812534 361862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f (g x y)) < 1315812534 522057 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, actually I mean ((f.).g) 1 == (f.g 1) < 1315812550 542443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (f.g 1) < 1315812550 702457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ c -> f (g 1 c)) < 1315812563 280457 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315812565 431105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1315812589 574052 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I've got it. I just had to work out the equational substitutions. < 1315812599 286164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315812617 846147 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's see if I can to it with three arguments. < 1315812645 890115 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything beyond two arguments and I start using fmap instead of . in a few places or just doing it pointfully. two arguments is pushing it, too. < 1315812684 777589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (((f.).).g) 1 2 3 < 1315812685 864293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1315812686 24179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... < 1315812691 332106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (((f.).).g) 1 2 3 < 1315812691 492795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f (g 1 2 3)) < 1315812696 634287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. < 1315812735 376733 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's okay when all arguments are in the right order and there aren't any other arguments or anything < 1315812765 279697 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's... fmap (fmap (fmap f)) g ? < 1315812775 769554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote king is something women are better at than men < 1315812780 732032 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :653) king is something women are better at than men < 1315812817 308456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how would you go about flipping arguments correctly? < 1315812824 451881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1315812825 531945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to write Haskell like pl does. For fun.
< 1315812831 472032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how I'd do it :( < 1315812850 248766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well flip g would flip the first two obviously. < 1315812876 106172 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\f g x y z -> f ( g z y x)) < 1315812876 266293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. (flip . (flip .) . flip)) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1315812877 253011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hey @pl doesn't know how to use Arrow functions < 1315812891 519046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine neither do I. :P < 1315812895 663297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can kind of use &&& I think. < 1315812899 810309 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think the point at which I switch to fmap is when composing compositions because that's weird < 1315812905 706275 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to make a program in Haskell for type-level natural numbers that allows you to do this: valcon (undefined :: Add $(3) $(4)) < 1315812909 600180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result will then be 7 < 1315812912 607181 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (f . g) 1 2 3 < 1315812912 767259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (g 1) 2 3 < 1315812916 783019 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\f g x y z -> f ( g y x z)) < 1315812916 943140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. flip) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1315812918 342905 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool < 1315812939 928429 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that is so bad.. < 1315812949 232695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y z -> f ( g y x z)) < 1315812949 392465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((f .) .) . flip g < 1315812953 107149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is better. < 1315812958 747093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It uses an instance Num (Q Type), although it is not really the proper way to make a Num instance, of course!!) < 1315812961 412670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y z -> f ( g z y x)) < 1315812961 572726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((f .) .) . flip (flip . flip g) < 1315812970 233274 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip < 1315812977 865873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well right I knew I'd want flip < 1315812995 899312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay so flip . flip g < 1315813021 618243 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y z -> f ( g x z y)) < 1315813021 778376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((f .) .) . flip . g < 1315813037 703879 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those make sense now. < 1315813061 885428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good, what I made with type-level natural number? Or, is strange? Or, something else? < 1315813101 621186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't recall seeing type-level programming and template haskell combined before < 1315813105 946078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip < 1315813106 611199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => a -> f (a -> b) -> f b < 1315813115 555191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't seen everything, either < 1315813120 131959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1315813121 291112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1315813121 948230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1315813124 524992 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is $(3) < 1315813139 240331 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TH for a type-level natural I'd imagine. < 1315813142 905097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you sure? I have never seen it either, but it would be possible. < 1315813164 648035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact I have been able to do so. < 1315813164 808233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you've just proved it is possible, it seems :P < 1315813184 185230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing caleskell also makes flip work on functors? < 1315813187 407378 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe $(3) was just zzo shorthand < 1315813190 22704 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I asked < 1315813222 995868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> flip [(+3), (+4), (+5)] 6 < 1315813224 370631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [9,10,11] < 1315813228 23918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Actually I made it so that $(3) is valid where a type is expected. < 1315813231 544445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: there would be no reason to parenthesize 3 if it were shorthand, i think < 1315813251 286954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>) < 1315813251 819310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1315813252 620384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not normally allowed for a TH splice to have only a number < 1315813258 907450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically flip is <*> for functors. < 1315813272 34417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src flip < 1315813272 216425 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip f x y = f y x < 1315813290 147226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I believe you. < 1315813367 826240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: didn't you see the type signatures? < 1315813381 204914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1315813382 168786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1315813391 715590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the program uses Template Haskell only for the purpose of writing things such as $(3) and does everything else with classes and type families. < 1315813392 45101 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: right but I don't believe that is the standard type signature for flip. < 1315813401 888052 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also it can't be <*> for functors, for fundamental reasons < 1315813406 83507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (fmap (flip id)) < 1315813407 43418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. a1 -> (a1 -> a) -> (a -> b) -> b < 1315813407 963706 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :behind <*>'s nature < 1315813410 902364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1315813433 474609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (fmap . flip id) < 1315813434 584502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1315813472 530628 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the fundamental reason is that there'd be no reason to have to declare <*> in Applicative if you could write it for any old Functor < 1315813473 495952 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how do you flip id. < 1315813482 943633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl flip id < 1315813483 385304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ b c -> c b) < 1315813490 186078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1315813494 863851 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<*> for function is the S combinator < 1315813500 608184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flip id) is Church exponentiation. < 1315813514 943998 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the type signature difference is that the second argument of flip is of type a, whereas in (<*>) it is of f a < 1315813532 717821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Prelude.flip < 1315813533 540116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c < 1315813547 918874 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so then what is the source for this new flip? < 1315813550 764359 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1315813562 991346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i just showed above < 1315813568 138029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's recursive? < 1315813569 535282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (fmap (flip id)) < 1315813570 476574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. a1 -> (a1 -> a) -> (a -> b) -> b < 1315813591 214899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well that flip used is supposed to be the standard one, of course < 1315813592 384437 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<*>) :: (t -> t1 -> t2) -> (t -> t1) -> t -> t2) < 1315813592 819563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2. (t -> t1 -> t2) -> (t -> t1) -> t -> t2 < 1315813596 315673 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh okay. < 1315813601 937942 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this like sudoku for haskellers? < 1315813609 172131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: heh < 1315813619 201046 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (t -> t1 -> t2) -> (t -> t1) -> t -> t2 < 1315813619 427065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a c (b c) < 1315813673 606143 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (fmap (flip id))? wasn't your definition flip (fmap . flip id)? < 1315813688 590554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or were you doing something else there < 1315813700 341435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gah i miscopy/pasted < 1315813706 889565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (fmap . flip id) < 1315813707 837690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1315813731 903162 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315813744 430507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>.($)) < 1315813745 511715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `<*>.' < 1315813748 842730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1315813754 365587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<*>).($)) < 1315813755 281466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a1 -> a -> b) -> (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> b < 1315813786 614937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<*>).(<*>)) < 1315813787 147331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> (a -> a1) -> b < 1315813806 133186 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((<*>).(<*>)) < 1315813806 293238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command < 1315813809 175477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<*>)<$>(<*>)) < 1315813809 841409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> (a -> a1) -> b < 1315813819 665180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn forall a b a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> (a -> a1) -> b < 1315813819 824916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a (b c) (c (b c)) < 1315813836 21338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting. < 1315813838 87308 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap.ap < 1315813838 247522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ c h -> (\ n -> c >>= \ k -> n >>= \ j -> return (k j)) >>= \ e -> h >>= \ d -> return (e d)) < 1315813845 155066 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting < 1315813906 681253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>).(<*>).(<*>) < 1315813907 184805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> b < 1315813909 40446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeee < 1315813932 583979 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @do @unpl ap . ap < 1315813932 744191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (\ c h -> do { e <- (\ n -> do { k <- c; j <- n; return (k j)}); d <- h; return (e d)}) < 1315813955 225674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose @unpl doesn't work too well with ap < 1315813995 429021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?. ?do ?unpl ap < 1315813995 589225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "?do" < 1315813997 737484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315814000 548896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?. do unpl ap < 1315814000 708810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ d e -> do { b <- d; a <- e; return (b a)}) < 1315814016 979124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list do < 1315814017 433863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo provides: undo do < 1315814049 791540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap < 1315814049 957201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) < 1315814258 681163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\a b c -> a (b c) (c (b c))) < 1315814258 878307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`ap` ap id) . liftM2 < 1315814284 549911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've lost my trust, @pl < 1315814312 474265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl (`ap` ap id) . liftM2 < 1315814312 634439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ j -> (\ f g -> f >>= \ d -> g >>= \ c -> return (j d c)) >>= \ r -> (\ o -> (\ a -> a) >>= \ l -> o >>= \ k -> return (l k)) >>= \ q -> return (r q)) < 1315814318 859334 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1315814350 745336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which provides obfuscated code more often. < 1315814354 35416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that second c probably complicates the plumbing a lot < 1315814378 813093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl ap id b c < 1315814379 173421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\ a -> a) >>= \ e -> b >>= \ d -> return (e d)) c < 1315814407 471395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pl should just magically know that it's (<*>).(<*>) because it's an awesome cat eye operator thing. < 1315814427 828006 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl uses ap instead of (<*>) < 1315814427 988172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1315814429 160445 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did something might be a bit strange, which is accessing a field which is incapable of ever having a value in the circumstances where the field is being accessed. (There might be possibility of the field having values, but not in the program I wrote.) < 1315814443 999921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.ap < 1315814444 973405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> (a -> a1) -> b < 1315814461 793616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @djinn @type ap.ap < 1315814462 639181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f a b c = a (b c) (c (b c)) < 1315814480 23913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you already did that < 1315814483 393775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1315814571 432979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.ap.ap < 1315814572 278914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> b < 1315814575 513757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.ap.ap.ap < 1315814576 460830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> b < 1315814582 519099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.ap.ap.ap.ap < 1315814583 361223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> (((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> ((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> b < 1315814589 231325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much ap is too much ap < 1315814599 179419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap < 1315814600 80749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a a1. (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((((((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a - < 1315814600 241236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ( < 1315814600 241455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> ((a -> < 1315814600 241562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> b < 1315814616 840405 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ais523: well, changes are at least an abelian group" <<< please elaborate < 1315814617 668704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: a lot < 1315814645 362180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (ap.) < 1315814646 333837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1315814646 493848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: f (m (a -> b)) < 1315814646 494061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: f (m a -> m b) < 1315814697 499950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ap ap ap ap ap ap ap) gives a really long infinite type error < 1315814698 652418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how would you like me to elaborate? < 1315814700 737711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is program I made: http://sprunge.us/PKiW < 1315814705 175827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap ap < 1315814705 960717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => (m (a -> b) -> m a) -> m (a -> b) -> m b < 1315814708 72411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap ap ap < 1315814709 59931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1315814709 219369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `ap' is applied to too few arguments < 1315814709 219454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `ap', namely `ap' < 1315814757 39252 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are the elements and what's the operation i guess < 1315814808 238937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<*>).(<*>)) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) < 1315814808 779660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [[b -> [b]]] < 1315814812 560263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well changes look roughly like change := start-of-file | end-of-file | insert between and | replace with | delete | move (,) to (,) | changeset < 1315814820 981864 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I definitely need to obfuscate something with that line... < 1315814822 467139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operation is a . b = changeset {a,b} < 1315814842 297645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inverse is < 1315814854 955899 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you get that that's a group lolol < 1315814860 814560 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315814866 212982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(insert x between a and b) = delete (insert x between a and b) < 1315814870 291317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(delete x) = x < 1315814877 265407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(replace x with y) = delete (replace x with y) < 1315814880 774045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(move) = cba to write < 1315814885 396436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(changeset) = blah blah recurse < 1315814887 244554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :((<*>).(<*>)) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) <$> (<*> 3) < 1315814890 327548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((<*>).(<*>)) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) <$> (<*> 3) < 1315814890 826180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `[b1]' < 1315814903 130306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse(start-of-file) = probably changeset {}, sof and eof act as nops in practice < 1315814916 219634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, changes are an abelian group. < 1315814923 849188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're not it's a bug :P < 1315814955 248665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I will be a great Haskell programmer, telling hieroglyphic stories with my programs < 1315814960 174933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic tales of cats and totem poles. < 1315814960 995098 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't matter in which order you say insert two strings? < 1315814969 219232 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i have no idea what we're talking about < 1315814972 765509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: changeset takes a set, not anything ordered, so yes. < 1315814976 341922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the context is scapegoat < 1315814991 363147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais' vcs design that I'm working on him with, based around recursive changes < 1315815017 95830 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm do you have x * x = x when x is a value < 1315815023 470785 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it added twice < 1315815066 348959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x * x = changeset {x, x} < 1315815073 503778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := changeset {x} that's how sets fucking work :P < 1315815090 915050 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x * x = x? < 1315815098 82137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: couldn't you avoid the getPred field by using valcon _ = 1 + valcon (undefined :: x) ? < 1315815105 25777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1315815106 427442 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not a group < 1315815117 459923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm oh :P < 1315815128 235765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1315815131 107661 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saves the day and goes to work
< 1315815135 741934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x * x might actually want to conflict < 1315815145 659332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan help us fix scapegoat < 1315815147 990619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (<*> [3]) <$> ((<*>).(<*>)) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) (const ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]))) ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) < 1315815149 395565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[3]]] < 1315815166 585565 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :does x*x -> x imply idempotent changesets? < 1315815172 50815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That doesn't seem to work when I tried < 1315815178 610963 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't understand what you're doing, but that sounds like it would be bad < 1315815185 791029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's correct. < 1315815188 784072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and right < 1315815195 891063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it actually just implies that {x,x} = x < 1315815198 278397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes :P < 1315815337 560092 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it implies that x = nop for all x < 1315815339 493005 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315815345 475447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: huh. maybe the type x isn't actually in scope. i vaguely recall something about that. < 1315815351 289018 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it seems to do is x in (undefined :: x) is a new variable < 1315815372 112597 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I put getPred instead. < 1315815372 768750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: perhaps if you add the ScopedTypeVariables extension? < 1315815386 683675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc the name) < 1315815404 45802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> [a] < 1315815404 372677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude repeat :: a -> [a] < 1315815404 532803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List repeat :: a -> [a] < 1315815404 532961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude iterate :: (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1315815407 696349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it will, but it also works the way I have it. < 1315815419 105770 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t return :: a -> [a] < 1315815419 759862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> [a] < 1315815422 150611 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure :: a -> [a] < 1315815422 679218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> [a] < 1315815430 610774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat >=> repeat $ 3 < 1315815431 332066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,... < 1315815437 740065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok. anyone i think that's the kind of thing that extension allows. < 1315815441 132266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyhow < 1315815450 47562 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t >=> < 1315815450 568911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `>=>' < 1315815454 130552 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat >=> (+1) $ 3 < 1315815454 813918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [c]) < 1315815454 974263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_113' at =>) < 1315815457 610293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c < 1315815472 106757 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+3) >=> repeat $ 3 < 1315815472 765806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [b]) < 1315815472 926038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_133' at actually it implies that x = nop for all x < 1315815504 222351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's certainly not true. < 1315815507 770401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accept it isn't a group though. < 1315815525 652223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat >=> (return.(+1)) $ 3 < 1315815526 984686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,... < 1315815549 214956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you ever have some use of this "TypeNatural" program? < 1315815561 898762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I/. < 1315815595 878102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: actually repeat is essentially the pure of the ZipList Applicative, which _may_ be extensible to a monad. < 1315815610 412947 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat >=> (repeat.(+1)) $ 3 < 1315815611 866635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,... < 1315815626 71234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not with the same monad bind < 1315815634 665037 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315815650 671333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically join for it is taking the diagonal of a matrix < 1315815673 574030 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that satisfies the monad laws? < 1315815685 725300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the monad laws may subtly fail because of bottoms if you do that naively < 1315815693 362234 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315815709 429546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: learn you a haskell for great good. < 1315815760 703573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :release the shackles of OOP, er... AOP I guess, based on your name. :P < 1315815763 774069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i _think_ it works if you require the entire square above and to the left of a diagonal element to be filled in order for that element to be put in the join < 1315815769 694255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think aspect knows haskell, CakeProphet. < 1315815775 378891 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: cutesy-styled tutorials don't turn me on < 1315815779 313473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :during my previous experimentations < 1315815783 337159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obnoxiously cute. < 1315815783 598598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: iirc ZipList is well known to not be a monad, but... < 1315815788 606179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: disable images < 1315815798 553253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a comonad? < 1315815802 415127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: it's not as bad as this one Ruby tutorial I read. < 1315815811 895141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have never seen it written up... < 1315815812 266183 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is the writing not cutsey as well? < 1315815823 290521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: note: insulting why's poignant guide will cause me to travel to your house and kill you. < 1315815823 738430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. it's mostly informative. < 1315815837 459920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so i am still suspicious they just haven't defined join properly... < 1315815843 375121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1315815855 561934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was an interesting read. but... I mean < 1315815861 498270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the huge monologues were kind of not needed. < 1315815867 167179 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't really know haskell -- certainly not OOP shackled though ... but watching @pl games in here doesn't do a lot to attract me < 1315815889 342088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is not really about a marketable face. < 1315815893 599707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh. the thing that makes me almost sure it's a monad is because it is nearly isomorphic to (Integer ->) < 1315815899 350364 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Squiggol paper was more obvious < 1315815901 274692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything here is pointless, no matter what the medium. < 1315815902 423110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (Nat ->) < 1315815913 679802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except that ZipLists can be finite. < 1315815935 583867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: just like how ioccc makes me hate c < 1315815982 244485 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nearly isomorphic? < 1315815982 945747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. so it's subtle but i haven't seen a proof that it _must_ break < 1315815989 397656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1315816007 561078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if all lists involved are infinite, then it is isomorphic < 1315816016 688838 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315816022 131300 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I like to see the dark corners of new things early. I gets the hate out of the way < 1315816030 267304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :l <-> (l !!) < 1315816036 45607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: pl is a very good obfuscatory / code concisor < 1315816052 272411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*obfuscator < 1315816085 47146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it serves both purposes well. < 1315816137 949959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send my program of type-level natural numbers to the Cabal or whatever, if you want to do so. It is public domain it is OK to do anything with it, modified or not, etc < 1315816170 588812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I modify it into a cat program? < 1315816201 694934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You probably can but it would be better to write your own cat program, since this is a completely different program < 1315816244 107143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so anyway, help us make scapegoat changes some itneresting structure :P < 1315816400 272644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: http://pastebin.com/yXJAs7ft here is a program I made in Haskell that outputs an infinite list of palindromes in an alphabet. < 1315816410 470799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetraphilomorphic streptocobordisms < 1315816412 249874 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will either make you interested or scare you away more perhaps. < 1315816441 60883 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, scares me away more < 1315816450 78529 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with simple recursive equations < 1315816461 940162 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck < 1315816463 92675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what < 1315816472 149774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be rewritten as re-usable combinators. < 1315816472 480018 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or let .. in .. rather than where < 1315816480 488776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just syntactic preference. < 1315816486 263929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so bad about where < 1315816489 499079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's let .. in .. as well < 1315816497 352407 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be used. < 1315816506 300195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hey, antezepto is still a thing that exists < 1315816507 31702 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reverses the order I'm used to seeing things in < 1315816516 243432 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I forgot about antezepto < 1315816520 54252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where has the nice property of not suggesting the definitions are evaluated first < 1315816522 913323 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how existing is it < 1315816538 131540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i have almost three hundred lines of haskell purporting to be it here... < 1315816548 327245 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work < 1315816553 667881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, let's find out < 1315816565 578207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1315816568 913712 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, implications about evluation order are considered a risk in haskell? : < 1315816647 32005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i am thinking... maybe i do not need the mutability that is in this code... < 1315816649 400184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I probably do) < 1315816654 247287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think you can't define variables without it) < 1315816655 909910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expressions are lazily evaluated, so there isn't really a definite order of evaluation < 1315816668 379226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: s/lazily/non-strictly/. < 1315816684 584694 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: sometimes it's more natural/readable to have the defintions first...sometimes it isn't < 1315816704 306856 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: a lot of the time I want the high-level picture first with the implementation details and helper functions after it < 1315816714 230316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let...in is never idiomatic in haskell imo < 1315816737 548249 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use let...in for pattern-matching chains < 1315816743 838223 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: there are idioms. I never read academic papers top to bottom, for example, often the same is true of programs < 1315816750 432324 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the ones I'm used to don't work here though < 1315816768 939220 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like having operators that resemble what people might have seen elsewhere in the world and are less than three symbols long :) < 1315816772 5936 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = undefined; x = f x in x < 1315816772 855844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1315816773 15779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1315816773 15877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1315816779 538019 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = undefined; x = f x in x :: Expr < 1315816780 193424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (... < 1315816800 964346 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect: "people can skip around" is not reason to say you shouldn't strive to make things natural/sensible/easy to read and understand < 1315816831 999515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be awful to have a bunch of helper functions before the real stuff < 1315816847 43174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably rewrite palindromes to be more readable but I prefer the concise code. < 1315816857 533766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: see: Python < 1315816863 334278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes. < 1315816870 16129 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: a pity it's not very concise :( < 1315816877 44736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: could it be more concise? < 1315816881 215692 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps! < 1315816929 490952 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl joinMirrors x y = (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet < 1315816929 653820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :joinMirrors = ap (ap . ((:) .) . (++)) (flip flip alphabet . (map .) . (. flip (:)) . (.) . (++)) < 1315816934 175150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not friends anymore pl < 1315816938 605848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1315816975 906306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the best mixture of concise/readable that I can think of. < 1315816983 283029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had joinMirrors as a lambda originally < 1315817037 783675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = fmap (join $ (++) . reverse) ([0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet)) in palindromes "abc" < 1315817039 351819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","bb","cc","aaaa","baab","caac","abba","bbbb","cbbc","acca","bccb",... < 1315817045 341925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1315817047 479472 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315817056 172062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only evens < 1315817064 555437 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1315817103 995871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's close to what I had originally though. < 1315817111 21665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I realized I also needed the odd ones. < 1315817118 11741 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what joinMirrors does. < 1315817264 214120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (++) . reverse < 1315817264 410627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ c -> (++) (reverse c)) < 1315817281 514666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I could use . instead of ap < 1315817287 103342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1315817319 992747 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl flip ap (++) reverse < 1315817320 154256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reverse >>= \ e -> (++) >>= \ d -> return (e d)) < 1315817330 993739 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl flip <*> (++) reverse < 1315817331 153816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\ a b c -> a c b) <*> ((++) reverse)) < 1315817335 337088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1315817495 268319 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1315817566 131257 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. < 1315817718 763618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bahahaha you cannot make my code better. < 1315817732 788612 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm???? < 1315817740 802615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I challenge you. < 1315817742 753925 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it. < 1315817803 297021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl join (f `fmap` x `ap` y) < 1315817803 495152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (liftM2 f x y) < 1315817807 607516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he;lp < 1315817827 612205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl join (f `fmap` x `ap` return y) < 1315817827 772222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (liftM2 f x (return y)) < 1315817847 301623 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiom brackest time??? < 1315817920 460572 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, a delayed reply to your s/// above: is there a difference between lazy and non-strict < 1315817926 745650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+? < 1315817927 402864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1315817935 356472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call by name is non-strict, for instance. < 1315817958 813343 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Haskell is not call-by-need? < 1315817970 284086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. GHC is. < 1315817982 660389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is specifically call-by-need with sharing. < 1315817989 69154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (with sharing isn't implicit there, right?) < 1315818010 631474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Haskell Report only specifies non-strict? < 1315818013 176871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :call-by-need implies sharing, i think < 1315818026 647975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's just call-by-name < 1315818028 605605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :call-by-need = lazy evaluation < 1315818032 447615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so i sketched up... what i think might be a very zepto... thing... < 1315818037 877420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies sharing. < 1315818041 206539 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh? < 1315818071 403267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it... may SHOCK you... < 1315818083 795107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/WheA < 1315818137 675139 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto < 1315818149 791410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh good... i thought... you would reject it... < 1315818152 448088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for its SYNTAX... < 1315818158 652300 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315818161 532844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rules... are simple... (I think...) < 1315818172 432578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forM [tail, id] (join . (++) . reverse .) =<< (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [1..] < 1315818173 498895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `L..' [infixr 9] of a section < 1315818173 660914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence ... < 1315818176 372988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a weird thing there is that => isn't actually done as abinary operator... < 1315818183 719692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while + and times are < 1315818185 548295 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only part of the syntax I'm iffy about is the special syntax for cons < 1315818185 899192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh wrong way < 1315818193 419501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forM [tail, id] ((join . (++) . reverse) .) =<< (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [1..] < 1315818194 282164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `alphabet' < 1315818201 269198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's actually special syntax for (list ...) < 1315818204 879734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forM [tail, id] ((join . (++) . reverse) .) =<< (`replicateM` "abcd") =<< [1..] < 1315818206 46769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1315818206 206102 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are all constructors in [] < 1315818211 955947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah! < 1315818213 642045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what I'm learning from this class is that software engineering is a neat way to waste a lot of time not writing code. < 1315818213 800899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-use-keywords-as-symbols.html inspired me a bit < 1315818217 164837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: basically quote isn't very usable < 1315818226 690228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just want a constructor, and all _sub_expression arguments to be evaluated, usually < 1315818235 433792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [(+ 9 9)] is (list (+ 9 9)) < 1315818251 73023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b c . xs] is (lolreplacenilwith xs (list a b c)) < 1315818299 827606 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1315818304 668133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM [tail, id] ((join . (++) . reverse) .) < 1315818305 612891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1315818305 772916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `++' is applied to too few arguments < 1315818305 773085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `(++)' < 1315818308 577317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so lists aren't constructed normally? < 1315818359 699656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: eh? < 1315818367 755957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that [...] isn't '(...) < 1315818369 160382 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried describing what i meant but that didn't work < 1315818371 244957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like (list ...) < 1315818375 622238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sub-expressions are evaluated < 1315818385 320034 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gripe was a bit different... < 1315818387 760933 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :than that < 1315818388 807427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on then < 1315818403 444301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM [tail, id] ((ap . (++) . reverse) .) < 1315818404 380050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1315818404 539786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `reverse' < 1315818404 539975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `(++) . reverse' < 1315818450 764783 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it depends on how zepto handles its analogue to haskell data types, which I assumed it has, from the pattern matching < 1315818472 737841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM [tail, id] (ap . (++) . reverse) < 1315818473 704539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> [a]' < 1315818473 864398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a1]' < 1315818473 864508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `reverse' < 1315818491 490522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i'm not really decided on data types < 1315818495 265466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315818501 926593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but yes, pattern matching on constructors will work "haskell-style" < 1315818506 460606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((ap . (++) . reverse) .) < 1315818507 321069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1315818507 481080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `reverse' < 1315818507 481163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `(++) . reverse' < 1315818521 684797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (((++) . reverse) .) < 1315818522 582950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f [a] -> f ([a] -> [a]) < 1315818532 169710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also everything is immutable < 1315818537 55715 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I don't see why (Cons x xs) must be written specially as [x . xs] unless ther'es something really special important about lists < 1315818540 194174 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :immutability is good < 1315818541 181475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe even typed??? < 1315818549 592682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look further down < 1315818549 918922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [c '=> e] . rest => < 1315818551 605427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's list syntax < 1315818554 82948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write < 1315818555 263990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo < 1315818559 386528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a b c] => a + b + c < 1315818562 575048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1315818563 724305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo < 1315818571 133453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a b c . rest] => a + b + c + sum rest < 1315818581 436787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x . xs] is just a special case of one element before the dot < 1315818656 119516 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok...special cases sort of make me sad though...also how is [x . xs] different from a single-element list with a list inside of it, where x is the first element and xs is the rest of the elements < 1315818674 389680 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did i misinterpret 'special case' < 1315818677 960123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misinterpreted < 1315818678 880408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant that < 1315818679 865763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x . xs] < 1315818680 25677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (ap ((++) . reverse)) < 1315818680 855616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. ([a] -> [a]) -> [a] -> [a] < 1315818682 349630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NOT SPECIAL SYNTAX < 1315818685 911906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just a special case of list syntax < 1315818697 182682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also how is [x . xs] different from a single-element list with a list inside of it, where x is the first element and xs is the rest of the elements" < 1315818700 52511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's not how you write it at all? < 1315818703 696626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me a scheme where < 1315818704 507472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 . 9 < 1315818707 4390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces the pair (0 . 9) < 1315818714 592476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM [tail, id] (ap ((++) . reverse)) < 1315818715 665478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [[a]] < 1315818734 434939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forM [tail, id] (ap ((++) . reverse))) =<< (`replicateM` "abc") =<< [1..] < 1315818735 579154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1315818745 721536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forM [tail, id] (ap ((++) . reverse)) =<< (`replicateM` "abc") =<< [1..] < 1315818747 379459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","aa","b","bb","c","cc","aaa","aaaa","bab","baab","cac","caac","aba","a... < 1315818749 746294 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ??? < 1315818755 69209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ugh < 1315818762 593694 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh??? < 1315818766 760045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what is your complaint? you haven't said anything that makes sense < 1315818767 555306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: \o/ < 1315818768 313861 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :              | < 1315818768 473091 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :             /| < 1315818797 95246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not even sure I understand how that works... < 1315818817 630247 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan did looks like what I was working on < 1315818827 814996 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit different < 1315818915 979786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: seriously, it sounds to me like you incredibly misunderstand list syntax < 1315818921 576669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand how this might work: < 1315818925 59488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list 'a 'b 'c) < 1315818925 714518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315818982 566797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lots of -> Monad < 1315818984 423446 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see what you were saying. 'special' threw me off. < 1315818995 348472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then see how this might work < 1315818997 92037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list 'a 'b 'c . 'd) < 1315818998 241192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm just bad at composition still :P < 1315818999 391777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then contract < 1315819002 157212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list 'a . 'd) < 1315819004 458378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :['a . 'd] < 1315819007 270228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pattern match < 1315819008 560905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x . xs] < 1315819021 994418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well you may have noted all the errors i had underway >_< < 1315819045 967637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why tail? < 1315819054 688761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: does it make sense now? < 1315819060 196315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as i usually use "special case" to mean a case that's handled specially, and just "case" when it's a single normally-handled case) < 1315819064 581973 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so? < 1315819067 908302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :P < 1315819079 585048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: to get the odd ones by removing the first element of what's appended < 1315819102 213770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....huh. okay. < 1315819108 865174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed yours has a different ordering so I guess that's why. < 1315819139 536254 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there is one thing that's throwing me off < 1315819152 574152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :about lists < 1315819170 982611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: go on < 1315819185 53242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in map you have [f x . map f xs] but elsewhere you seem to use spaces to separate list elements? < 1315819207 664705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe . is like : in Haskell and space is like , sort of < 1315819209 145299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes. that's an error < 1315819214 145006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be [(f x) . map f xs] < 1315819217 995824 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're wrong < 1315819220 324079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the spaces don't matter after a . for obvious reasons) < 1315819249 563818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: incidentally I think pairs are isomorphic to size-two vectors; [a . b . c . d] making a size-four vector < 1315819253 960261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not decided on that though < 1315819349 137824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: space is only like , if there are no .'s. if there is a . then both it and the spaces are like : < 1315819379 149489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1315819381 54 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and also the bracketing changes < 1315819399 156435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) -- [a,b,c] but (a b . c) -- a : b : c < 1315819419 576312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) in a pattern is like (a:b:c:_) I think? < 1315819431 999400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm not really paying attention. :P < 1315819433 878094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in when, is | alternative syntax for putting the pattern on the next line? And in cond, is nothing as a pattern the same as []? < 1315819445 550473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know lisp/scheme patterns, if they even have any < 1315819459 684224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard that is. < 1315819506 373596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: | is just like dollar sign in haskell < 1315819507 360890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1315819507 681213 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1315819508 509924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f | x < 1315819509 5001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1315819510 166987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1315819510 825313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1315819515 91455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that < 1315819516 756358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f | x < 1315819517 654360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : y < 1315819518 647926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1315819519 544898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1315819521 58332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1315819522 892173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : y < 1315819524 888759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1315819533 479605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fakes an additional layer of nesting/indentation < 1315819536 293812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, nothing is not the same as [] < 1315819540 829744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing handles the 0-argument case < 1315819567 42538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the other case isn't matching on lists then I guess < 1315819584 673532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was part of what threw me off about list syntax and then I forgot about it < 1315819640 289205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's matching on a list, followed by other arguments < 1315819647 311686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help make dupdog TC < 1315819681 119379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my professor just said that object code is a living thing you can date. < 1315819730 790557 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant the matching on arguments. So I guess it's like list syntax but without brackets? < 1315819736 63462 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the syntax, I mean < 1315819738 56390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what < 1315819741 878778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: tell your professor not to bring his ...preferences... into the class. < 1315819746 489754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: in that all pattern matching is like list pattern matching, yse. < 1315819748 352391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1315819762 445013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's nice and good < 1315819784 818043 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :she was talking about "artifacts" in software engineering. an artifact being something that's produced as the result of an "activity". she said object code is a tangible, living thing < 1315819791 21347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then said you can date, as in.... put a date on it. < 1315819796 589420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but out of context it is quite hilarious. < 1315819817 746191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why she said living though. < 1315819858 901710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's just preferring you for your robot overlords < 1315819861 656052 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does eval do? < 1315819867 873536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically this is a terrible class and I'm probably going to fail it. < 1315819913 249959 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand this class < 1315819954 499195 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do not understand what she was trying to say < 1315819958 598043 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a class about all of the boring job-related planning stuff that isn't programming. < 1315819976 901161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is meaningless to me, as well. < 1315819977 61187 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yucke < 1315819978 962698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what do you think it does < 1315819988 196900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: evals??? who knmows..... < 1315819994 877564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it evals somethingt. < 1315820069 69300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess as to what it does doesn't jive with it being in cond < 1315820162 741193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are some questions I have to answer: 1. What is a RFP? 2. Explain a WBS 3. Explain a forever client 4. Name two informational data shown in a PERT 5. Name two informational data shown in a GANT 6. What do you understand about planning activities? < 1315820167 538382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningless. acronym. meltdown. < 1315820170 738112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: note how cond is defined with fexpr < 1315820174 756594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well defexpr but < 1315820197 234730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fexprs < 1315820209 144520 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about those :( < 1315820223 960345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: exactly like a function, but gets called by name < 1315820229 218289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I just vomit code and not worry about this stuff? :( < 1315820229 890341 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went through one of those "software development" courses too; it was mandatory for the telecommunications minor I accidentally got. < 1315820230 567453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, all parameters are the AST, not their evaluated form < 1315820241 644060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mandatory for my CS major. < 1315820247 904116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things you get: non-confusing macro declarations, hygiene for free, no abstraction leak of compile vs. runtime < 1315820318 535950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is e the only thing that gets evaled? im confue < 1315820339 223669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1315820349 706428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you _know_ what cond does? < 1315820353 265513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It was notable for asking several questions of the form "[a question], according to Mr X?" in the exam; where Mr X was one of the half a dozen visiting lecturers (mostly) from the Industry. < 1315820354 456606 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1315820369 551496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I knew what it did though..... < 1315820391 150649 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you couldn't give a justified answer; you just had to know what $some_random_dude thinks of it. < 1315820433 808260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315820451 536359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315820698 386981 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Documentation and evaluation of software architectures according to Mr. Juha Savolainen." < 1315820707 730222 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that latter exams on that course have been slightly more sensible. < 1315820753 652137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (cond (a => b) (c => d)) === (if a b (if c d)) < 1315820757 719044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....she never explains what a request for proposal is... how am I suppose to answer this question. < 1315820770 442294 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO WIKIPEDIA < 1315820774 59359 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315820780 582201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I thought. recently I realized I might have been thinking of eval incorrectly though < 1315820784 656692 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315820787 120973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval is just eval < 1315820789 947345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eval 'x) === x < 1315820794 584161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eval '(print 99)) prints 99 < 1315820797 900960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's when you request that someone makes a proposal. < 1315820808 856625 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where by realized I mean I always had the suspicion but I realized another thing it could be--oh I had the right idea about it originalkly???? < 1315820814 139404 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now im confused again < 1315820852 675563 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is it not when you request that someone makes a proposal? < 1315820865 540839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you understand fexprs? < 1315820870 922184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok let me put it this way < 1315820872 576146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I assumed she would want something more specific. < 1315820873 431167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:58 < monqy> oh fexprs < 1315820873 591190 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:38:10 < monqy> I don't know much about those :( < 1315820877 372328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if we used "e" directly < 1315820878 799802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than eval e < 1315820879 456866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1315820886 53574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cond (truething => (print 99)) < 1315820887 806253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would return the list < 1315820888 810242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(print 99) < 1315820890 730954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than printing 99 < 1315820898 761561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1315820902 200819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cond (truething => (print 99)) < 1315820905 964695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :passes the LIST < 1315820908 303300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(truething => (print 99)) < 1315820909 51134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to cond < 1315820914 939349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_no_ evaluation of arguments is done < 1315820920 711633 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i knew that much < 1315820956 195523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why do you think eval should not be called? < 1315820963 535131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1315820967 72810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you not understand why eval is called? < 1315820970 774234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A work breakdown structure (WBS) in project management and systems engineering, is a deliverable oriented decomposition of a project into smaller components. < 1315820973 769897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuuuugh < 1315820978 416456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that _everything_ is runtime, there is no need to recourse to any macro-related thinking < 1315820983 496971 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I please just write a bunch of code instead of doing this stuff? < 1315820983 660888 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right < 1315820987 960857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed lambdas are totally implementable on top of fexprs, you just evaluate every arg and pass it on < 1315821070 387093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm confused because eval is not used in any other instance in which values are introduced < 1315821082 549691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: cond is the only fexpr in that file. < 1315821085 219115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are all functions. < 1315821093 636773 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for when? < 1315821108 551614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to eval things that are quoted. < 1315821109 870132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is c not a value? < 1315821118 853013 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it is already evaluated. < 1315821123 863370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : except for when? < 1315821124 522169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm right < 1315821125 180616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are you paying attention < 1315821127 561200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315821130 910855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm i may have fucked up when < 1315821146 208769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok yeah i apologise deeply < 1315821148 900524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :defexpr when | cond . body => < 1315821149 67148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if cond < 1315821149 227195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : body < 1315821149 227361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #void < 1315821149 768771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1315821151 226705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :defexpr when | cond . body => < 1315821153 767967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if cond < 1315821155 796190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : eval body < 1315821157 600895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #void < 1315821165 792665 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1315821194 506735 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if handles eval on cond? or am I going the wrong way here < 1315821210 822961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops < 1315821216 714139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :defexpr when | cond . body => < 1315821216 884142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (eval cond) < 1315821217 44120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : eval body < 1315821217 44212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #void < 1315821218 688875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very awake :) < 1315821223 551515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it all makes sense now < 1315821232 536318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is all my fault :( sorry for being impatient < 1315821249 863160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even cond is broken < 1315821251 608972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing eval on the c < 1315821252 524929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh < 1315821269 325757 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1315821383 58233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell > Scheme < 1315821396 290748 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it isn't < 1315821399 668709 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ordered by size. < 1315821410 781298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1315821416 898013 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh eh eh < 1315821420 503724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleigh! < 1315821430 659756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION covers his face with a cape.
< 1315821436 430264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns into a bat and disappears.
< 1315821448 11037 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1315821495 7026 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my professor just said depictiated. < 1315821574 151031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "Haskell" > "Scheme" < 1315821574 811454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1315821575 35603 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :training for the work environment < 1315821584 319378 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the Haskell-bot agrees. < 1315821604 410335 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That it's not.) < 1315821615 91484 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget to dequote those. < 1315821624 323742 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you're just comparing strings. < 1315821672 858250 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=406506 "I can depictiate her obiquous senergy." bahahahahaha < 1315821710 950452 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell data Language=Haskell|Scheme deriving(Eq,Ord);main=print$Haskell>Scheme < 1315821717 580377 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1315821757 685425 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are." < 1315821828 909122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: good reviews < 1315821835 351089 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: especially that one < 1315821896 271645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: she doesn't sound like such a good professor < 1315821902 85320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am receiving reverse education. < 1315821920 924813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only had maybe 3 good professors so far. < 1315821955 856134 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any ratings for our school anywhere. :/ < 1315821963 894961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my discrete math teacher was fuckign amazing. I will be taking him again for advanced mathematics and topology < 1315821974 801900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, the fizzie RETURNS. < 1315821977 372532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh no, < 1315821984 498811 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1315822000 159953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to Dr. Griffiths I can now count things like mad. < 1315822002 836424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1315822004 87853 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look at the time, I think I need to be going, bye. < 1315822014 450290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going, uh, somewhere. < 1315822016 105533 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over there. < 1315822017 164768 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1315822075 800726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hi. < 1315822082 489462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/DownldGF.html <- that's a nice book if you want to pretend you're counting things. < 1315822088 103093 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let subset x s = filterM (const [True, False]) s `elem` x < 1315822089 100415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1315822104 242996 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t subset < 1315822104 739349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => [[[a]]] -> [a] -> Bool < 1315822108 89283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....no < 1315822114 169597 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1315822124 365906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SO ABOUT DEM MCMAPS < 1315822134 833795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also "generatingfunctionology" is an awesome name.) < 1315822138 296492 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :generatingfunctionology < 1315822141 780858 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315822145 119633 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let subset x s = x `elem` filterM (const [True, False]) s < 1315822145 614217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1315822147 923460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t subset < 1315822148 519250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => [a] -> [a] -> Bool < 1315822158 564536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> subset [2,3] [1,2,3] < 1315822159 914327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1315822197 430924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> subset [2,1] [1,2,3] -- *whistles innocently* < 1315822198 988878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1315822208 213551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WHAT NOW? < 1315822210 886378 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe < 1315822219 535073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to be frend < 1315822226 255750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help list is not set? < 1315822258 375677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = all (`elem` s) x in subset [2,1] [1,2,3] < 1315822258 786557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1315822272 583502 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as elegunt < 1315822277 613016 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more elegant < 1315822280 594258 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep < 1315822287 797474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oyurs is disgusteing < 1315822303 592842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better mathemathecally < 1315822304 138491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x s -> all (`elem` s) x < 1315822304 298455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (all . flip elem) < 1315822304 681126 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine even reads naturally...... < 1315822365 86387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :power sets are more powerful < 1315822433 730010 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) . nub . permutations s) in subset [2,1] [1,2,3] < 1315822434 432493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a]) < 1315822434 592482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `2' at let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) . nub . permutations $ s) in subset [2,1] [1,2,3] < 1315822465 367511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a]) < 1315822465 528096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `2' at let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) s =<< nub . permutations) in subset [2,1] [1,2,3] < 1315822534 495604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> GHC.Bool.Bool' < 1315822534 655585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ... < 1315822537 22225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :baaaah < 1315822540 796096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want it for Eq not Ord just go with my definition it's the best (thumbs up) < 1315822544 825456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) s >>= nub . permutations) in subset [2,1] [1,2,3] < 1315822546 159146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1315822548 489065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeee < 1315822568 212953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is more efficient though. < 1315822584 147541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1315822601 262518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nub . permutations: efficient function for efficient people < 1315822619 7077 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :filterM (const [True, False]) and >>= for lists are all very efficient. < 1315822625 894854 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) s >>= nub . permutations) in subset [2,1] [1,2,3..1000] < 1315822626 552054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `..' < 1315822631 943785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = x `elem` (filterM (const [True, False]) s >>= nub . permutations) in subset [2,1] [1..1000] < 1315822635 476948 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1315822641 148343 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but beyond that it's a mess of inefficiency < 1315822644 885687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? nonbelievable!? < 1315822665 243040 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subset x s = all (`elem` s) x in subset [2,1] [1..1000] < 1315822665 649657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1315822668 478843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8) < 1315822708 266269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ 1000 < 1315822708 919114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 107150860718626732094842504906000181056140481170553360744375038837035105112... < 1315822719 523168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and that's not counting the permutations. < 1315822780 962346 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the elements of the power set of [1..1000] < 1315822885 724006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the intricacies of exec? < 1315822915 354181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any man really know that. A question for the ages. < 1315822927 270798 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A generating function is a clothesline on which we hang up a sequence < 1315822927 520550 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of numbers for display. < 1315822937 974028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good question. < 1315822947 482283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really I'm just trying to figure out how easy it is to implement an //upgrade in mcmap. < 1315822948 322088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am laughing too much < 1315822949 76 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [1..1000] < 1315822950 148568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 402387260077093773543702433923003985719374864210714632543799910429938512398... < 1315823004 371689 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "exec without closing sockets" is a nifty trick, but are you absolutely sure people's mcmap sessions are really that long-running? < 1315823014 201644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ (product [1..1000]) < 1315823032 296042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1315823059 198242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, no. But let's face it, it'll require a couple dozen lines of code at most, and it is _so_ _cool_. < 1315823075 103861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, as an mcmap developer, I would very much like to be able to test my changes without restarting and reconnecting. :p < 1315823086 956111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect people might want to test their ~/.mcmap/init.scm changes just as easily. < 1315823089 410724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Slike emacs. < 1315823114 497258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssss.... but I don't think reloading the Scheme config necessitates a real restart, does it? < 1315823139 492067 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely I must have some kind of talent for writing non-trivially inefficient code. < 1315823152 365816 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what < 1315823161 887230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, no, but (a) having removed variables and the like staying around, and things like it re-registering hooks, is totally annoying. And re-initialising the Scheme interpreter from scratch is not really a thing that's possible, to my knowledge. Plus, (b), mcmap "starts" so quickly that an exec + jump into the main code is both cleaner and perfectly fast. < 1315823187 12993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Windows doesn't have fork, but does it have the right kind of exec? < 1315823188 103021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: O(2^n!) for list subset. < 1315823205 464487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, worst case. < 1315823227 467086 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It'll forget all the stored world-tiles until someone does the regionfile persistence right; then you don't actually see the map until you move real far, since the server won't resend the tiles. < 1315823238 157115 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: by non-trivially inefficient do you mean "inefficient by a nontrivial amount" or "inefficient in a manner that is not trivial in some way (please specify way)" < 1315823244 954139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our university logo is a randomly selected from the three alternatives A! A? A" (and randomly of three alternative colors for the punctuation) -- some people have posed the question that since A! (factorial of A) equals A" (the second derivative of A), what is A? < 1315823259 65640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/aalto.jpg -- this is unfortunately only in Finnish. < 1315823261 282544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, the regionfile persistence is at least half-done, isn't it? < 1315823263 431528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: second, as in I'm not just adding stupid computation steps that are not directly related to the goal. < 1315823282 298647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like mcmap has much other state that you wouldn't _want_ to be reset. < 1315823305 815195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Current map mode! < 1315823325 826765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So that's one command-line argument. :p < 1315823331 753495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current Y-level for the non-following cross-section map. < 1315823338 898298 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current lights-on/off/night mode. < 1315823344 203613 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all Important Things. < 1315823349 301142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's all "map shit"; it can be packed up into like three arguments. < 1315823369 176827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1315823381 109814 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the current window size and position. < 1315823391 22289 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming you've dragged it somewhere.) < 1315823399 561808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... is not really problematic to lose. :p < 1315823405 364260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Obviously a "proper" state-sending mechanism would be nicer, but I don't see you writing that. :P < 1315823414 700109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the reload non-seamless, that's all it is. < 1315823432 570788 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current "it's been moved to the floating layer from the tiled layer" state that you can't actually persist in any way from within the program. < 1315823459 375323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, except by keeping the window open, but that doesn't sound doable.) < 1315823511 478378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if windows were sockets... < 1315823558 361316 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X connection is a socket; it's just that I don't think SDL makes keeping it alive a possibility. < 1315823590 184283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could try and hide the fact that we're "quitting" from SDL. < 1315823594 160771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then memory-write-in the fd. < 1315823688 85137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you can't actually get at the sockets from outside of the proxy. < 1315823690 90964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sun never sets on the haskell british empire. < 1315823695 216088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :":?> < 1315823695 546384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1315823731 514881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have the same ring to it < 1315823858 175987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that crap compiled cleanly /first time/? < 1315823868 851534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Inca-dentistry (god I love that), irssi does this same hacky stuff. < 1315823870 97325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be deceived. < 1315823880 114598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try /upgrade. < 1315823882 450904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, I know. < 1315823883 771105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Upgrade irssi to new version on-the-fly without disconnecting from server, so other people won't even notice you quit from IRC. This ONLY executes the new binary, it does NOT download/compile/whatever irssi." < 1315823898 747907 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It loses the scrollback buffer state too. :p < 1315823903 983376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a perl script to fix that.) < 1315823907 974903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha. < 1315823914 28601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we need a Scheme script to persist window crap. < 1315823922 705571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned how easy this would be with @? < 1315823925 177723 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no perl is the only tool for hacks. < 1315823970 392990 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B66D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315824010 87561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just use your Haskell perl interpreter thing? or wait, this is all scheme right? < 1315824028 848978 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh < 1315824051 130549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a perl interpreter macro. < 1315824063 574066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuore uppsetting my CakeProphet < 1315824071 508956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int err = execl(argv0, argv0, "--upgrade", g_strdup_printf("%d", sock_cli), g_strdup_printf("%d", sock_srv), NULL); < 1315824073 677454 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mcmap is in c < 1315824073 836902 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As for Windows, no, I don't think it has the proper sort of exec; it's all by CreateProcess there. But at least for files you can specify SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES that let the handle be inherited by child processes; presumably that could be possible for sockets *somehow*. < 1315824074 903033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Look at my production-quality code. < 1315824088 995668 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: its scriptextended with guile scheme < 1315824100 613953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:42:14 [DIED] Failed to set video mode: Invalid width or height < 1315824102 195824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a start. < 1315824113 796271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At least do (char *)NULL for the final value. (The absolutely most important problem!) < 1315824157 642952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless vararg function argument promotion thing made void * the right thing; not absolutely sure here.) < 1315824165 94339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I, um, eh? < 1315824176 632728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:43:31 [DIED] Unknown packet id: 0x5a < 1315824180 55500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Haha, we have desync issues. < 1315824198 169420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the proxies need to be told "finish a packet, then hang". < 1315824207 375433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VOLATILE BOOL TIME < 1315824218 303307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile bool wanna_hang; < 1315824220 83991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im matuer < 1315824310 629760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cleverly named variable is a wonderful thing. < 1315824321 135026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Holy crap, it actually kind of works. < 1315824328 843589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scratch that: entirely. < 1315824329 829466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it is even explicitly defined that you can pass a void * and read it with va_arg(char *); but do cast the NULL to (char*) anyway, because "#define NULL 0" is legal, and then it'd get passed as an integer. < 1315824344 389762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :booleans, the best concurrency construct. < 1315824347 295883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude. Dude, it works. < 1315824354 25181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANNA TRY? < 1315824363 537684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO THE BEST < 1315824374 105451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it quite thoroughly messes up the console though. < 1315824407 519528 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not at work. Anyway, I'm pretty sure there are cases where it may fail. In particular, there are those buffers in packet_state_t; you'd really need to handle those for propriety. < 1315824420 731930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly mcmap is mission critical to your work, you know. < 1315824431 280708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there are... a great many issues as it currently stands. :p < 1315824437 166905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, like, it works. < 1315824460 963110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why scheme out of curiosity? < 1315824462 560397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The console hack is such a hack I'm not surprised it breaks. < 1315824468 784192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: As opposed to? < 1315824477 204843 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- nothing in particular. < 1315824485 255930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: When mcmap was failing before, it dumped me to my terminal with all the raw stuff still on. That was fun. :p < 1315824514 445643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I evaluated Lua, Ruby, Python, Perl, Haskell, MiniScheme, rep, nasal, and god there must have been others. < 1315824521 294338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even various JavaScripts. < 1315824556 829911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problems with Lua: The C API is certainly convenient, but also it's quite ugly; manual stack machine munging. Also, I have this quite strong but yet somehow apathetic dislike of the language, and seemingly so does fizzie too. < 1315824560 289350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby: No. Just no. < 1315824567 376222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python: I don't like it, and IIRC Vorpal said the C API wasn't that nice. < 1315824569 139636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl: No. < 1315824575 789203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315824584 453706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C API is unbelievably horrid, language also.) < 1315824585 372948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl doesn't even qualify for a "just no", I see. < 1315824593 219877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you _seen_ XS? < 1315824594 746228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell: Just doesn't embed. At least not GHC. At all. < 1315824607 924017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I recall, XS is better than the cpython API < 1315824612 844778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiniScheme: Really exposes less than I'd like. Dunno about the portability. Not so really modern or maintained etc. Probably not a very good Scheme. < 1315824619 411656 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I have. I've also done a bit of Inline::C, which has to use some of the same stuff. < 1315824621 849993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rep: It was okay. But quite Unix-only. < 1315824630 7312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasal: Practically abandoned, bad, didn't like it, nobody knows it, beh. < 1315824631 841078 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If that's true, the cpython api must be something quite horrible. < 1315824640 964645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScripts: Don't like the language; C API was either awkward, or non-existent (Veight is C++ only) < 1315824667 250872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inline_Stack_Push(sv_2mortal(retval)); <- "what." < 1315824674 647672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Whereas Guile has a nice C API, is a pretty good, well-maintained, performant Scheme with a large collection of libraries, which constitutes a nice language, and yeah, it's a nice API. < 1315824678 372438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to maintain reference counts manually for pythons api I believe. Though you may need to do this for perl as well, but I don't recall seeing anything about it. < 1315824694 538592 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia: Operations on volatile variables are not atomic, nor do they establish a proper happens-before relationship for threading. This is according to the relevant standards (C, C++, POSIX, WIN32), and this is the matter of fact for the vast majority of current implementations. The volatile keyword is basically worthless as a portable threading construct. < 1315824695 192077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus being the "official" extension language of GNU, despite its not high use for that, it's really quite thoroughly focused on making things nice on the C coders. < 1315824701 343911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it supposedly even builds on Windows. < 1315824715 903459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uses pthreads for threads though; but there's pthreads for Windows; but who knows if that'll interoperate; but we'll see. < 1315824729 164779 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You don't necessarily have to "maintain" them manually, but you certainly have to think about them all the time unless you want to leak like a sieve, or have values disappear on you. There's quite a lot of values you need to explicitly make "mortal". < 1315824742 888658 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The autogenerated XS glue does do *some* of that stuff automatically though. < 1315824782 179081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whereas Guile uses Boehm GC, so all you have to do is add scm_remember_upto_here_1(smob) if you extract the data from a smob but don't later reference it. :) < 1315824893 91673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You know, it kind of would be nice if mcmap could keep a connection for you... < 1315824898 572999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: long-runningness.) < 1315824905 691762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, a minecraft bouncer? < 1315824906 184387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft is quite crashy, after all. < 1315824916 635325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm just sayin'... it wouldn't be much cod e:P < 1315824917 388445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code :P < 1315824919 959645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you consider Erlang? :D < 1315824927 710154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: To /embed/? < 1315824931 4498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as unembeddable as GHC. < 1315824931 320893 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would mean actually handling the login stuff. Okay, it's not *that* much code. < 1315824938 767557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not really? < 1315824941 293792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just drop it from the client. < 1315824948 103398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the server, you just need to keepalive, keepalive, pong, blah. < 1315824955 529418 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't just "drop it", you have to respond to the client so that it continues. < 1315824960 952258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK. < 1315824994 672324 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess it's mostly just replaying the packets the server sent. < 1315825080 229224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In case you're wondering, yes, my goal is to make the name "mcmap" as inaccurate as I possibly can. < 1315825098 468852 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the client will then do a spurious http://www.minecraft.net/game/joinserver.jsp GET (for which the server won't ever do the corresponding http://www.minecraft.net/game/checkserver.jsp GET), but I guess that probably won't hurt. < 1315825112 43234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, DRM < 1315825156 61367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often find myself wanting emacs key combinations when in other editors/IDEs < 1315825184 790464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSX has global Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E, IIRC you can make Gtk have htem too < 1315825189 753082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Re the volatile quote, emphasis on "portable". mcmap's approach to portability is a bit peculiar; on one hand there's these huge unportable hacks, while on the other there's code to manually parse IEEE-754 floats/doubles in case you're on a non-IEEE-float system. < 1315825213 897984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Basically it's literally designed for the 90s. < 1315825238 96660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone has weirdo IRIX boxes and "oh, my sun /usr/ucb/cc is broken" but nobody bats an eye at ... interesting approaches to concurrency. < 1315825245 987143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's interesting. I can just use home and end for C-a and C-e though. But things like c-k and c-space are quite convenient. < 1315825253 830703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can get those too. < 1315825257 60895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, C-k at least. < 1315825281 245089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotos are a little awkward though... < 1315825298 572785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(goto line number that is) < 1315825347 805767 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[numeric arg] M-g M-g < 1315825360 563023 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I told MonoDevelop (when trying it out) to use Emacs-style keybindings. That made it do all kinds of "C-x (C-)s" stuff for saving, but on the other hand obviously it wasn't a "real" Emacs, so it felt like some sort of misshapen hybrid. < 1315825406 106011 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use "M-g M-g [enter the number in the prompt]" always. < 1315825415 769188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... I didn't know that was an option. < 1315825421 620296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes way more sense. :P < 1315825440 466139 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other M-g commands? < 1315825466 747396 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the double-g, I just keep mentally saying "go! go! go!" for that. I don't recall any of the other uses of M-g, but I'm sure there are some. < 1315825483 732332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At least admire my diff: http://sprunge.us/bRGT < 1315825513 726233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me about a week before I knew what select-all was. :P < 1315825599 620061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I might regret learning Emacs but it's been quite helpful because a lot of unix tools use similar commands. < 1315825617 128827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: usleep(500000) ooh the prettiest. Anyway, I think it would be polite to tell SDL to shut things down right before the execl; it's not going to run any of its atexit handlers and such. (Also shouldn't those common.h things have extern + definitions somewhere?) < 1315825631 764649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You realise this was a proof-of-concept? :-P < 1315825642 749864 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP < 1315825646 114353 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's no reason not to point things out. < 1315825658 268987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1315825669 659299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hi < 1315825676 591761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bouncing around in main is the funny. < 1315825680 604525 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what is wrong with your face < 1315825690 599861 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many tongues. < 1315825697 13536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1315825715 546265 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hop and a skip and what is that a for (;;) there why doesn't it just "return;"? < 1315825749 409570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um because that isn't hanging? < 1315825756 47141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315825786 322709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh, I guess it's technically not, but... why would it need to busyloop in a circle instead of just stopping? < 1315825795 795537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I wasn't thinking? < 1315825800 532781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the variable name makes more sense that way, that much is true. < 1315825818 530640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I might include all the original command-line arguments so that it can parse window size and all. < 1315825822 807714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would also avoid a goto. < 1315825843 889310 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto label5; < 1315825853 474907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is downloading all of the text logs so that he can count the occurences of :P and :-P
< 1315825863 157083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using rsync? < 1315825865 994476 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1315825869 776668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using wget and grep. < 1315825874 567166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wget of where? < 1315825878 737315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... logs. < 1315825880 862961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If codu, don't. < 1315825884 377937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1315825886 172967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're meant to use rsync instead. < 1315825889 866311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor will get mad. < 1315825890 35392 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1315825894 499917 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1315825897 755945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type !logs and get the command. < 1315825901 668288 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1315825911 718346 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1315825916 504915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1315825919 968059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I am stealing all the bandwidth. < 1315825924 182868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my massive wget. < 1315825930 620548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that must be it. < 1315825930 949329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like fifty megs, so yeah. < 1315825936 365472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It comes in as a notice, you moron. < 1315826027 196318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh that didn't download anything. < 1315826033 677509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it wrong < 1315826054 910072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there we go. < 1315826061 327134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but this includes the raws I didn't want those. < 1315826065 731029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it'll be faster due to compression. < 1315826128 923136 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a tool and just copypaste commands, I didn't realize the source directory was left out. :P < 1315826217 337003 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1315826350 335382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey look rsync has an --include < 1315826352 827015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late. < 1315826383 171103 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEE FI FO FUM, I SMELL THE BLOOD OF SOMEBODY WHO TRIED TO USE WGET TO DOWNLOAD ALL THE LOGS INSTEAD OF RSYNC < 1315826411 13853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: like I was just supposed to know. < 1315826418 811782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could like, I dunno, put it on the page? < 1315826426 557693 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1315826431 261921 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sekrit™. < 1315826439 797171 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dont wget please" - logs page < 1315826445 972032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"theres a better way" - logs page < 1315826455 128370 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but its a sekrit™" - logs page < 1315826456 966560 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But I won't tell you what that is" - logs page < 1315826458 550771 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315826468 306262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wget-spidering an entire fifty meg website: NOT CONSIDERED A GOOD THING TO DO EVEN IF NOT WARNED AGAINST? < 1315826477 992477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :™ < 1315826481 407444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You might wanna use robots.txt to block wget by default. < 1315826497 394086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1315826500 991913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315826522 990033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/logs$ grep -P ":P|:-P" * | wc -l < 1315826523 156219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :44217 < 1315826526 546094 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I actually only care about the rsync issue for the /sync/ part. If you're just doing a one-time download, it's basically no different (assuming that wget supports Content-encoding: gzip) < 1315826536 571468 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Here's the numbers from my own incomplete set of logs: < 1315826537 278531 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select sum(case when body ilike '%:p%' then 1 else 0 end) as noseless, sum(case when body ilike '%:-p%' then 1 else 0 end) as noseful from event where target = (select id from target where name = '#esoteric'); < 1315826537 602973 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : noseless | noseful < 1315826537 763280 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------+--------- < 1315826537 763469 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 39989 | 5665 < 1315826538 300332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1315826538 461114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1315826549 422099 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: What, you don't do SQL? < 1315826564 635104 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL, Haskell, it's all the same. < 1315826570 653520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Received string length longer than the maximum allowed ([thirty-nine] < 1315826573 580643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java ioexception < 1315826573 740265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -P ":[)]|:-[)]" * | wc -l < 1315826574 886269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that? < 1315826575 52605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :27804 < 1315826576 394816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? < 1315826600 797202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1315826601 844218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very wordy grep. < 1315826603 983808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is wrong < 1315826627 547294 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -P ":[(]|:-[(]" * | wc -l < 1315826628 369460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8639 < 1315826648 334291 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name-distribution of :P sayers? This may be the only line in which I have said :P, but now I have said it twice. < 1315826675 424032 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sounds like most of those are about >16-character player names, but I guess it could be some other strings. < 1315826712 114927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I literally just made the proxy deset the variable then return, and then changed the usleep to a while (var); < 1315826713 759182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that started. < 1315826839 223550 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This logbase doesn't have name-coalescing, so the top 5 of ":P"-sayers isn't very useful: < 1315826844 142435 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select n.name, count(*) as peeings from event e join nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.target = 2 and e.type = 'msg' and e.body ilike '%:p%' group by n.name order by peeings desc limit 5; < 1315826844 411114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : name | peeings < 1315826844 572051 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------+--------- < 1315826844 572209 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott | 7591 < 1315826844 572313 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor | 4370 < 1315826844 731222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1315826846 310710 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird | 4229 < 1315826848 130144 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorR | 2772 < 1315826849 986581 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise | 2162 < 1315826852 823106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Stop *doing* that. < 1315826855 87095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You need :-p too. < 1315826866 12431 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the question was about ":P sayers". < 1315826876 692060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah. < 1315826899 419598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... I am not the most severe offender! < 1315826930 611704 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You do have one more thousand from GregorR-L, but still. < 1315826945 490276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the pee-fraction is more important than absolute pee amounts, anyway. < 1315826981 298507 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::urine: < 1315827046 348356 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a related drawing i made: http://oi54.tinypic.com/ndr48y.jpg < 1315827065 764173 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not just now) < 1315827074 111401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1315827086 419145 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand this drawing < 1315827122 406309 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blue blobs are necessarily edible looking.. < 1315827138 862839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.c: In function ‘cmd_upgrade’: < 1315827139 277924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.c:267: error: initialization makes pointer from integer without a cast < 1315827139 437321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.c:270: error: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast < 1315827139 437503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.c:272: error: passing argument 1 of ‘execv’ makes pointer from integer without a cast < 1315827139 437610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/unistd.h:560: note: expected ‘const char *’ but argument is of type ‘char’ < 1315827139 597383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I what... < 1315827151 272820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *argv[999] = { main_argv[0], "--upgrade", g_strdup_printf("%d", sock_cli), g_strdup_printf("%d", sock_srv) }; < 1315827151 490323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (int i = 1; i <= main_argc; i++) < 1315827151 649684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1315827151 649767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : argv[3+i] = main_argv[i]; < 1315827151 649812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315827154 766452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int err = execv(main_argv[0], argv); < 1315827158 194333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks right to me. Well... rightish. < 1315827165 505283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh apparently ^[\s\d:]+ is not matching the timestamp? < 1315827232 905730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the type of main_argv then? < 1315827278 252726 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think there's some glib helpers you can use to build the new argv without that 999 in there. < 1315827283 995496 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select n.name, sum(case when e.body ilike '%:p%' then 1.0 else 0 end)/count(*) as peefrac from event e join nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.target = 2 and e.type = 'msg' group by n.name order by peefrac desc limit 5; < 1315827284 155627 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : name | peefrac < 1315827284 155803 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------------+------------------------ < 1315827284 155905 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorLOL | 1.00000000000000000000 < 1315827284 156008 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorR-L__ | 1.00000000000000000000 < 1315827284 484610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1315827285 210427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : AMD | 1.00000000000000000000 < 1315827287 352035 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : whoami | 1.00000000000000000000 < 1315827289 284566 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : bsmntbombdood2 | 0.50000000000000000000 < 1315827293 530233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *main_argv; < 1315827295 484777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, durrr. < 1315827300 827373 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's your there. < 1315827308 823099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pee winners < 1315827314 597997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good old "include also people with no real comments" thing. < 1315827323 610274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> XIO: fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0" < 1315827323 937650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : after 113 requests (112 known processed) with 0 events remaining. < 1315827324 431112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `XIO'Not in scope: `fatal'Not in scope: data... < 1315827325 125336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. < 1315827342 668180 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: simply put, it's arial 12 bold "D:" rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise, and arial 12 bold ":P" rotated 90 degrees clockwise, with the bounded spaces coloured in < 1315827362 692904 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all makes sense now < 1315827372 267426 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1315827388 494665 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315827411 360271 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was difficult though to get the anti aliasing right < 1315827427 204747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Segmentation fault < 1315827427 817567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Segmentation'Not in scope: `fault' < 1315827429 742494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that ain't good. < 1315827435 305032 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: One more for the road; here's the real pee-winners: < 1315827437 1267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select n.name, sum(case when e.body ilike '%:p%' then 1.0 else 0 end)/count(*) as peefrac from event e join nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.target = 2 and e.type = 'msg' group by n.name having count(*) > 1000 order by peefrac desc limit 5; < 1315827437 161160 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : name | peefrac < 1315827437 321175 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-----------+------------------------ < 1315827437 321352 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor-W | 0.16866359447004608295 < 1315827437 495194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1315827438 22202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor | 0.15765359500703488582 < 1315827440 128367 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorR-L | 0.14097390368576809255 < 1315827441 455958 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each string character was rendered twice against two different background colours < 1315827441 988250 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorR | 0.12288323432928451104 < 1315827444 84156 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorR-W | 0.11541244573082489146 < 1315827446 797205 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very Gregorish list. < 1315827452 752383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 12:38:04 [DIED] Unknown option --upgrade < 1315827452 911923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. < 1315827453 215014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `DIED'Not in scope: data constructor `Unknow... < 1315827594 492102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just to calm your nerves, I haven't actually committed any of this horrible stuff yet. < 1315827683 545162 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've been keeping a watch on the... other channel. < 1315827728 923590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1315827745 262564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ready to revoke my commit rights? < 1315827785 558963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, more desync issues? < 1315827875 603828 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there *are* those buffers there. If you restart in the middle of something busy, it's rather likely there's pieces of another packet stuck in there. (Plus it can also silently drop packets when there are complete packets there.) < 1315827926 834867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the buffers. < 1315827955 550252 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, you'll also have to replay the initial spawning and somehow force the server to resend the tiles to make the "minecraft bouncer" mode work; otherwise the client won't have the world data the server thinks it already has. < 1315827964 282264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to tell SDL "hey, don't try to focus the window you open"? < 1315827997 45286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -n -e 'BEGIN {%c=()} /^.+? <(.*?)>.*?:(P|-P|p).*$/; $c{$1}++ if $1; END {print "$_: $c{$_}\n" for keys%c}' *.txt < 1315828005 795132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4 < 1315828008 74501 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wat? < 1315828017 191014 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic of perl < 1315828032 270045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely perl integers are bignums. < 1315828045 995225 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the numbers are double-precision floats. < 1315828051 376752 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you "use integer". < 1315828077 115529 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or "use bigint".) < 1315828099 552562 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315828103 577105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope still 4. must be regex then < 1315828110 885024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, perl integers are floats by default? < 1315828118 646373 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: $c{$1}++ if /.../. < 1315828120 503326 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how that regex could possibly have gone wrong < 1315828129 546421 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All Perl numbers, I believe. < 1315828132 816331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1315828145 307179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet enother reason for hate < 1315828145 470330 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But doubles work as integers up to 2^52 or so. < 1315828169 804109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, does anyone know a portable SDL way to not focus the window created? < 1315828180 711803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether I have to just say "hey, show some other window" or whatever; I don't acre. < 1315828181 392953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :care. < 1315828181 779411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1315828183 908454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315828184 604209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :care. < 1315828189 325578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :care. < 1315828196 588254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :care. < 1315828205 424557 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care bear stare. < 1315828270 781271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .*$ suffix of the regex is spurious, but shouldn't hurt. < 1315828295 445180 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming no newline problems. < 1315828310 850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to avoid matching things in < > < 1315828314 994376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that aren't at the start. < 1315828332 414659 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether . matches newlines, and whether $ matches newline or real end-of-string only depends on the flags. < 1315828345 569892 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to drop the .*$ anyway, since it serves no purpose. < 1315828406 323027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How would one detect whether the buffer has a full packet in it? < 1315828436 449150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or can one not do one one that one. < 1315828494 77372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you really can very well, and I'm not sure it'd really help. If you have a partial packet in the buffer, you can't (well, I guess you *can*, but it's ugly) just keep reading and hope you'll end up at a packet boundary during your half-a-second sleep. < 1315828530 966163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can prolong that sleep indefinitely, theoretically. < 1315828542 11066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess the best thing is just to send the buffers? < 1315828561 171473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any... guarantee that argv won't clobber binary data? Oh wait, can the protocol include nul bytes? < 1315828564 628104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/FFF9nQc4 < 1315828566 535755 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the whole list < 1315828583 791566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for :P | :-P | :p < 1315828594 643182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....though I'm not sure that matches fizzie's < 1315828597 792607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes if I am too tired I fall asleep involuntarily < 1315828626 292786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The protocol does include lots of 0s, and those probably won't go through argv as-is. < 1315828641 265061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Any two-five-fives? :p < 1315828656 148477 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Any bytes, in general. Though you can of course escape. < 1315828659 988868 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see I have only used it once in that list, presumably from refrencing it, possibly from quoting or mimicking someone else, as :P is not something I would say to emote < 1315828669 212271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could Mork-encode it. < 1315828685 633912 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or just g_base64_{en,de}code, that's in glib and it's a single function. < 1315828690 695134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, yes. < 1315828695 965768 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit over-cautious, but still. < 1315828698 795622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is so perverse, I: love it.) < 1315828704 112069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also countless other nicks. elliottbuntu, gregorzilla, cakeprop1et, ... < 1315828720 474774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there any guarantee you can pass like 262144 times a lot in a single argument? < 1315828722 134531 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofod < 1315828726 635052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems... unlikely. < 1315828731 487569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Times a lot for basesixtyfour.) < 1315828740 820134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: 19 < 1315828756 471809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No; POSIX does define some minimums, but they're quite low. (Base64 only is times 1.25 though.) < 1315828757 128933 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315828771 35283 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315828793 988286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The alternative solution would be to serialize all relevant state into a single binary blob, and then throw that to the new process with some binary-safe mechanism, like a POSIX shm block. < 1315828824 989940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I mean, guarantee on Linux. < 1315828846 795803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if I opened a pipe, wrote a bunch of data to the write end, then passed the read end to the new process? < 1315828876 922839 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On Linux that's good for 64 kilobytes, IIRC. < 1315828899 118748 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Size of the pipe buffer.) < 1315828923 649239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, what happens if you go past that? Writes just fail? < 1315828933 663427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writes will probably block. < 1315828950 473997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Waiting for the read end to empty.) < 1315828952 393078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we fork'ed and started the new process ... :p < 1315828967 388380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose posix guarantees any buffer sizes there. < 1315828975 956227 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4k or something, if that. < 1315828995 545968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrf. < 1315829020 680321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/Re2Eznr4 < 1315829026 784423 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :total number of lines < 1315829066 482923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not counting /mes and stuff. < 1315829071 748439 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just lines with < 1315829075 750359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You need to use the industry-standard merging table, dude. < 1315829084 4290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1315829093 15867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nick merging. < 1315829095 171157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal has a copy. < 1315829117 285981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1315829121 145914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to? < 1315829125 460085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1315829130 287387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise my count is way too low. < 1315829131 602634 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want anyone to take you seriously, yes. < 1315829154 29083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like how the net effect of this is turning EVERYTHING into a global. < 1315829169 114292 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315829182 959348 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no way around this hackery < 1315829200 481263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually your count will be equivalent < 1315829203 791490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in this list you have multiple nicks. < 1315829205 128998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315829205 461242 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could have blah_serialize_state/blah_deserialize_state functions for each blah.c, then just call those in sequence, concatenate the blobs, and do something for it. < 1315829208 144463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315829208 640117 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315829210 614183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315829215 739366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just building up my score. < 1315829221 293946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It... would be nice, yes. < 1315829231 297487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I might even do that. < 1315829237 250580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what and what < 1315829259 889149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how any of that is confusing. < 1315829296 263652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is confusing < 1315829296 920973 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1315829297 928993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh god, I'm building a fancy Generic System here, aren't I. < 1315829303 967266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The main problem is that we /want/ a lot of state to be dropped. < 1315829311 487095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., the whole Scheme state. < 1315829347 769807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is to beat Phantom_Hoover and Sgeo < 1315829351 800287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the lines race. < 1315829370 299136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you don't want a POSIX shm block, you could just use a g_file_open_tmp; on a sensible system it'll end up in a tmpfs anyway. < 1315829372 433598 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good goal for good people < 1315829377 953754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who is tusho and why have I never seen him. < 1315829386 602126 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho == elliott < 1315829387 907897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho is me. < 1315829396 290217 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The file handle will stay open, and then you can seek to 0 and slurb the data back in.) < 1315829397 476352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It... would be nice to be _vaguely_ portable. < 1315829403 853083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, might someday run on Windows. < 1315829406 371753 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"im eliot" - toshu < 1315829409 593879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So g_file_open_tmp sounds nice. < 1315829431 814112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Would it be bad if I reused the jint_read/jint_write functions for this? :p < 1315829444 783044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, those should _totally_ work on buffers.) < 1315829453 932567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually. < 1315829457 386285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can depend on endianness just fine. < 1315829458 706201 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean for a one-liner it does its job. No need for fancy tables. < 1315829474 254813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No it doesn't, it fails to merge the various nicks a lot of us have. < 1315829481 970272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So its results are completely wrong. < 1315829487 495114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong how? < 1315829490 880398 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315829500 468595 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't merge the various nicks a lot of them have < 1315829504 788937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reports how many times a nick said a line. it is correct in that report. < 1315829529 61762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are buf_start/buf_pos/buf_end all important to keep? < 1315829530 134125 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nicks aren't very meaningufl < 1315829534 609422 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are meanignutuflk.... < 1315829545 698556 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1315829563 277230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a one-liner, is my defense. < 1315829569 719038 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a one liner with a BEGIN and END line :P < 1315829573 249369 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Bad Perl one liner < 1315829602 583221 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :took less time than the equivalent Haskell code.. < 1315829614 733975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Outside of packet_read, I think buf_start == buf_pos or some such equivalence exists. But of course if you don't want to understand how it works, you can dump all. < 1315829624 815143 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There'll be some useless bytes there, though.) < 1315829652 157102 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed to kill less babies than the equivalent haskell code < 1315829660 905585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, I think it should be enough to just dump the bytes from buf_start to buf_end, and the size of that; then on reloading set buf_start = buf_pos = 0, buf_end = size, and load those bytes at the start of the buffer. < 1315829674 744217 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious as to what method you would use in Haskell. you would recursively update a Map (of strings! gah) I'd imagine < 1315829677 969050 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, a file is also what irssi uses for /UPGRADE. (It's a hidden option called "session", defaults to ~/.irssi/session) < 1315829690 573208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about that "offset" thing? < 1315829710 267795 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a Haskell programmer more likely to use Parsec than regex for this kind of thing? < 1315829711 969313 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: presumably a fold for that < 1315829731 834750 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315829737 402127 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the updating the table < 1315829739 380380 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use a fold < 1315829744 892834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315829746 292756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than explicit recursion < 1315829749 752513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct buffer result = { sizeof(struct packet_state)*2, g_malloc(sizeof(struct packet_state)*2) }; < 1315829749 919750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(result.data, (unsigned char *) &cfg->state_cli, sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829750 82199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(result.data + sizeof(struct packet_state), (unsigned char *) &cfg->state_srv, sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829751 728228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pro, or pro? < 1315829753 864223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should you use Map String a? < 1315829759 199408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one way < 1315829760 59246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently that is a sin. < 1315829776 718095 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that a anyway < 1315829788 671242 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't need to save offset[] or the internal struct packet, assuming you don't stop the proxy between the packet_read and the packet_write. < 1315829789 316566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num a) => a I'm just lazy. < 1315829799 963300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: TOO LAZY TO BOTHER LA LA LA < 1315829822 825846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think your wanna_hang may have stopped it in the right place already. < 1315829831 560810 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna hang < 1315829869 378342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct buffer proxy_serialize_state() < 1315829869 640316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1315829869 800535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct buffer result = { sizeof(struct packet_state)*2, g_malloc(sizeof(struct packet_state)*2) }; < 1315829869 800728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(result.data, (unsigned char *) &cfg->state_cli, sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829869 800836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(result.data + sizeof(struct packet_state), (unsigned char *) &cfg->state_srv, sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829871 615535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return result; < 1315829873 377271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1315829875 470973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void proxy_deserialize_state(unsigned char *state) < 1315829877 481345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1315829879 530206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(&cfg->state_cli, (struct packet_state *) state, sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829881 357965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(&cfg->state_srv, (struct packet_state *) (state + sizeof(struct packet_state)), sizeof(struct packet_state)); < 1315829886 561522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1315829888 471409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Et voilbeautifula. < 1315829901 118282 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure about that, but I guess it should work. < 1315829917 818167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The problem is skipping the init in the proxy thread creation stuff. < 1315829925 939872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can just pass a bool restarting. < 1315829947 279943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or separate out the state initialisation. < 1315829967 983397 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1315830003 927969 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. Though you do need to set the state_cli.sock = sock_cli; state_srv.sock = sock_srv; even when restarting. < 1315830033 837622 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Otherwise it'll end up being copied from that state blob.) < 1315830035 16094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, actually, sockets are part of struct packet_state now... < 1315830043 265354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those will have the right fd. < 1315830043 996437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1315830052 455940 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1315830061 30221 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually is the right fd. < 1315830082 33232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might not need to pass it on the command line at all, then. < 1315830112 717995 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose duplication won't hurt. < 1315830141 504764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I'm trying to make the only data be original command line args (perhaps not even those) + serialised. < 1315830153 995613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AVRj < 1315830158 353592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's starting to look suspiciously like a good design. < 1315830221 979058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (("all nighter", "sleep")[int(rand(2))]) < 1315830223 553218 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :all nighter < 1315830228 917326 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it shall be. < 1315830233 774952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Right now from #perl: http://p.zem.fi/t6uz -- see how you don't have to care about refcounts. (Lie.) < 1315830266 661822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315830284 800260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I don't really know much about XS. < 1315830318 241610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glue between return types and parameters is mostly autoXS'd, but the process of building non-scalar Perl values from inside C code is quite messy. < 1315830324 289831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g_file_open_tmp("mcmap.XXXXXX", NULL, NULL) -- yay < 1315830327 574045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I'll handle errors later.) < 1315830357 809715 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I will perhaps need to stock up on caffeine for the adventure ahead. < 1315830412 104483 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is mcmap an #esoteric project < 1315830446 445111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1315830446 607382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an #esoteric-minecraft project, I'd say. < 1315830448 864676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1315830453 456223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you even seek an fd? < 1315830465 798965 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Certainly; just lseek it. < 1315830467 546450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lseek. < 1315830518 116349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.c:270: error: ignoring return value of ‘write’, declared with attribute warn_unused_result < 1315830521 425357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Harshing my vibe here. < 1315830524 607410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, there's an energy shot called "10 hour power" < 1315830537 340519 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's the thing that even a (void) cast won't cure. < 1315830542 821481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I just tried that. < 1315830547 655306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF do I have to do to make it happy? < 1315830549 800562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) (void)? < 1315830563 851918 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if (...) ;" is I think enough. < 1315830567 243834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1315830578 144425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1315830604 207562 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :console.c had a write like that, until people complained too noisily about how bad it was. < 1315830662 604121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy.c: In function ‘proxy_initialize_socket_state’: < 1315830662 802487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy.c:57: error: expected expression before ‘{’ token < 1315830662 802656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy.c:58: error: expected expression before ‘{’ token < 1315830662 802761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1315830670 5908 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315830671 86698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void proxy_initialize_socket_state(socket_t sock_cli, socket_t sock_srv) < 1315830671 250257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1315830671 410404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cfg->state_cli = PACKET_STATE_INIT(sock_cli); < 1315830671 410568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cfg->state_srv = PACKET_STATE_INIT(sock_srv); < 1315830672 581220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1315830674 708781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a confuse.d < 1315830681 109324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, don't tell me I need a (struct blah) inf ront fo that. < 1315830692 832249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a struct initializer. < 1315830718 316383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or expands into one, anyway. < 1315830751 945667 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inf ront fo", sounds like a Ultima spell. < 1315830757 958416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAL VAS FLAM and so on. < 1315830809 297037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1315831018 363509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLib-ERROR **: The thread system is not yet initialized. < 1315831018 558656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aborting... < 1315831018 558847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aborted < 1315831019 539384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Good start. < 1315831034 352920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. < 1315831136 149282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:39:18 < 1315831136 316620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> XIO: fatal IO error 9 (Bad file descriptor) on X server ":0.0" < 1315831136 477426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : after 122 requests (122 known processed) with 0 events remaining. < 1315831136 477594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/mcmap$ < 1315831137 138557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `XIO'Not in scope: `fatal'Not in scope: data... < 1315831137 796702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 'tis a start. < 1315831156 192511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XIO: fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server " o
" < 1315831156 356565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : after 121 requests (121 known processed) with 0 events remaining. < 1315831159 822443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's no X server I ever heard of. < 1315831172 441473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They speak X server in what? < 1315831189 983714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> XIO: fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0" < 1315831190 313875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : after 120 requests (120 known processed) with 0 events remaining. < 1315831190 476097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) < 1315831190 476197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Major opcode of failed request: 4 (X_DestroyWindow) < 1315831190 476242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Resource id in failed request: 0x5e0000d < 1315831190 644513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Serial number of failed request: 120 < 1315831190 808580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `XIO'Not in scope: `fatal'Not in scope: data... < 1315831192 679900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Current serial number in output stream: 120 < 1315831194 534963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME < 1315831206 345624 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-M-^H < 1315831221 799020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw------- 1 elliott elliott 513K 2011-09-12 13:39 /tmp/mcmap.UZ850V < 1315831227 97779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're not meant to be that big are they? < 1315831245 680885 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a single packet_state_t is around 256K. < 1315831251 335150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1315831260 154060 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit overdone, but it needs to hold any single packet. < 1315831285 823256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that using the zlib worst-case guarantees? :p < 1315831308 614418 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably well over that. < 1315831312 616024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, without SDL_Quit(), //upgrade just seems to freeze the whole thing. < 1315831341 208726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ... is not so simple. < 1315831343 220998 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course that's assuming 16x16x256 is the largest chunk-update ever sent; we do (did?) support cross-chunk updates. < 1315831373 586649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the largest packet is... infinitely big? < 1315831383 18619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically-maybe. < 1315831387 40242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIX IT < 1315831401 93781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's borderline possible that you can only "officially" do SDL_Quit from the SDL UI thread. < 1315831430 345346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but even if I don't quit it's completely broken, so. :p < 1315831449 349412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should may-possibly gdb it, but would that even /work/? < 1315831495 655200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guesstimate that gdb can at least optionally follow through exec's. < 1315831584 185778 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we actually even SDL_Quit in the "clean" shutdown? < 1315831595 774048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not atexit-registered by default.) < 1315831599 62600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x00007ffff6beb36d in nanosleep () at ../sysdeps/unix/syscall-template.S:82 < 1315831599 225200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 0x00007ffff74ad984 in SDL_Delay () from /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 < 1315831599 385978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 0x00007ffff746538e in SDL_WaitEvent () from /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 < 1315831599 386162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 0x000000000040b73e in start_ui (map=true, scale=1, resizable=true, < 1315831599 386271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wnd_w=512, wnd_h=512) at ui.c:112 < 1315831600 212363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1315831604 684274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know. < 1315831649 317487 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you segfault in there < 1315831661 600486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said it was a segfault? < 1315831668 855546 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made an ass of u and me < 1315831674 945262 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-12.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315831852 34286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is quite the confuzzling code; at least the proxy just stops dead. < 1315832157 608982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plans how to get fizzie to debug it for him with tricksy thinking.
< 1315832327 826812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :student: "oh, so it's the combination" professor: "no it's the composite. the summing." < 1315832339 847387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...even though that's exactly what he meant in that context. < 1315832362 834307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates this class with each passing minute.
< 1315832376 18187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie... what if... you looked at this diff. < 1315832385 330017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832386 333739 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSSHLESS < 1315832390 623266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Csshless. < 1315832401 764086 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315832404 534872 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is really good < 1315832410 397126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1315832412 603578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie... fizzie... http://sprunge.us/XaIC < 1315832413 463808 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what on earth do we use it for < 1315832467 957504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh blahblah | less < 1315832554 755904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832555 390344 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMFHC < 1315832556 953173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832557 633748 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEEEIM < 1315832558 436034 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832559 4861 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MZH < 1315832559 915898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832560 508634 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBP < 1315832561 394422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315832562 29474 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDLMSCP < 1315832569 76698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEEEEIM < 1315832631 417835 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1315832681 418265 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315832689 824868 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did it not work again? < 1315832756 126384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It just sits there. < 1315832761 756356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft times out, nothing printed on the console. < 1315832769 648607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+C in gdb shows it's in sdl event loop. < 1315832772 775905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it definitely does cross over. < 1315832781 556806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprised, since he thought he declared < 1315832781 727763 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this identifier, JD searches through the source code and discovers that the < 1315832781 888187 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :identifier he declared had and ‘-‘ in it and this one didn’t. He fixes the < 1315832784 682495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :error then quickly scans the rest of the source code and finds two more places < 1315832787 656813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he left out the ‘-‘ < 1315832791 118784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my professor is a Lisp programmer. < 1315832794 287928 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL event loop is the reasonable place, but humm. < 1315832816 719618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe the proxy got hung by deserialising the wrong stuff and interpreting that? < 1315832836 363487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro 5000 < 1315832836 937199 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACDIGDBCUPTDRCWYEAATDFPBB < 1315832850 510621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDBCUP < 1315832928 27290 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1315832983 283766 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could at least do if (read(upgrade_fd, data, len) != len) die("OH NO!") or something. < 1315833005 79243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I doubt that's failing. But okay. :p < 1315833019 450176 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I haven't seen anything obviously wrong, no. < 1315833085 989601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no errors. < 1315833088 220934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I wonder if my professor realizes that most people don't charge by lines of code. < 1315833092 217601 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most sane people. < 1315833108 327220 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all Haskell programmers would be homeless. < 1315833116 571567 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't they? < 1315833131 914290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mental image of a Haskell programmer is this hairy homeless person. < 1315833133 659351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess they would be. < 1315833411 128930 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reached the end of the diff, still didn't see anything obviously wrong. Possibly struct proxy_config should hold either both the iq and worldq, or neither, but that's not a real problem. < 1315833491 73114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could just add some log_prints in various places of proxy.c to see what happens there, or figure out how to target that particular thread with gdb. I can take a closer peek at home, but that's likely to be at least three hours or so from now. < 1315833505 52866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll procrasti-think on it. < 1315833558 673958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :procrasti-thinking could be probably be listed as most of my billable hours. < 1315833561 304721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were paid by hour. < 1315833637 660877 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you instead paid by line? < 1315833653 391481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :billable hours -- 10:00-11:45 compiled code; 11:00 - 12:00 : took hookah break to procrasti-think < 1315833664 604885 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no I'm paid in piecework currently. < 1315833673 621573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I set a price for something, finish it, get paid. < 1315834250 987744 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315834413 966777 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1315834738 136324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1315834809 80734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My OS professor is making sure people understand what classes are. Not because of OS theory presumably, but to be able to write plugins for his simulator < 1315834941 183494 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classes are abstract things which appear in your program, and are not meant to be executed. < 1315835002 36171 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's better to say "attended" < 1315835080 887205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1315835112 328612 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1315835201 908741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I forget, have you ever used mcmap at all? < 1315835210 834335 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1315835312 273558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1315835383 975268 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does his simulator simulate < 1315835394 912713 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315835419 932661 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1315835523 321798 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CPU and an OS < 1315835523 983784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src minimum < 1315835524 147747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimum [] = undefined < 1315835524 147918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimum xs = foldl1 min xs < 1315835550 414214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src min < 1315835550 574739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :min x y = if x <= y then x else y < 1315835895 666357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You realise mcmap works on Windows, btw? < 1315835913 517728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I do. But until now, I've been lazy < 1315835922 74373 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in class right now
< 1315836009 704317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Seek state of an fd would be transferred across exec,r ight? < 1315836123 502308 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's logically speaking part of the fd. < 1315836265 84551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1315836269 696421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does address space carry over exec()? < 1315836278 488714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, shouldn't matter < 1315836282 35148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :packet_state doesn't contain any pointers < 1315836287 730064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe in the packet p, but that should be ignored at this point < 1315836288 655544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1315836330 548444 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmm. < 1315836341 224624 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check that thing. < 1315836387 306640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should be hokay. < 1315836405 700706 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'offset' field is used as the packet's field_offset array, but it's reset by packet_read. < 1315836416 92722 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(state->p.field_offset = state->offset;) < 1315836469 232013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay. < 1315836546 139885 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Same applies for the 'bytes' field of the packet, which is pointed to &state->buf[state->buf_start] in packet_read.) < 1315836579 191158 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aways, moving home. < 1315836600 391633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moove. < 1315836601 709268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouuuve. < 1315836856 976475 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half the time when I raise my hand to answer a question: "Someone else" < 1315837109 636281 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nerd < 1315837243 713314 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1315837257 981964 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the time when i raise my hand to answer a question, pigs fly < 1315837336 421112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1315837385 816874 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, is it because you just say something random that makes no sense? < 1315837392 965145 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that'd be cool < 1315837682 372051 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no < 1315838187 110595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[W]hile there are many aspects to software quality, your first quality concern must necessarily be with its defects. ... [E]ven experienced programmers typically make a mistake for every seven to ten lines of code they develop. < 1315838191 153541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rly? < 1315838198 342317 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my code always runs correctly the first time. < 1315838235 702082 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DOES IT HALT < 1315838256 83418 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people mistakenly refer to software defects as bugs. When called bugs, they seem like pesky things that should be swathed or even ignored. This trivializes a criticial problem and fosters the wrong attitude. ... Defects are more like time bombs than bugs. < 1315838264 678695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION submits a time bomb report to gedit.
< 1315838287 305137 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are defects like burritos < 1315838495 963414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sure. < 1315838574 824910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burritos encased in nuclear waste < 1315838597 114263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help data form hell < 1315838736 588190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :JD again recompiles the program and gets an error message at the end of the < 1315838737 918877 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :program, unmatched begin < 1315838745 208105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, she's a pascal programmer. < 1315838772 602264 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1315838849 805525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps Algol... < 1315838957 803049 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on age I would guess Pascal < 1315839005 237367 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does she write in the third person? < 1315839017 703116 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this "JD" some sort of a persona? < 1315839019 843610 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315839033 662618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a hypothetical character in an example. < 1315839065 348276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought it was the java decompiler < 1315839069 689878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you want an diffs < 1315839073 421176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with rrchecking < 1315839116 516237 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the compiler output, JD sees where the missing semicolon belongs and < 1315839119 481055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixes the source code < 1315839122 776400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how I know it's a mad example. < 1315839133 358365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the compiler was helpful for finding a missing semicolon. < 1315839139 266229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mad/made up/ < 1315839151 739251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess typos get more interesting when you're skipping a night of sleep. < 1315839314 729934 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315839394 305185 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: once laying in a hospital bed with asthma or something i started stareing at the fabric patterns. i thought i was just tired or whatever but i did start to see some bizzare visual grammar speaking to me < 1315839419 667781 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i was reading the meaning of the fabric pattern < 1315839484 18111 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315839649 596656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often read the meaning of fabrics. < 1315839656 275194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they speak to me in a secret script. < 1315839664 987035 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315839696 814311 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bugs don't matter < 1315839705 358158 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying sooth about baked dessert. < 1315839714 94023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where I get all of my secrets. < 1315839738 384634 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well i keep seeing the word grammar used in strange places lately < 1315839746 938914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bugs are actually just stupid intended features. < 1315839747 541186 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"design grammar" for example < 1315839763 935868 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. uhhh < 1315839791 465455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I say some stupid intended features are actually just bugs. < 1315839904 621195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a cannibalistic doctor would be fun because you get to cure people in two senses. < 1315839932 717850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie did done run away. < 1315839965 650671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"done did" is an acceptable idiom of some dialects of southern american english. < 1315839966 961068 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now im not sure < 1315840022 972803 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here we go < 1315840024 274574 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here "done" is essentially being used like "already" < 1315840035 993869 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Axonometry, and the pictorial grammar that goes with it, has taken on a new significance with the advent of visual computing." < 1315840046 788962 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pictorial grammar :P < 1315840073 46881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315840098 71148 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that doesn't make sense. < 1315840176 476395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... the... terminology? < 1315840203 272690 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure that its supposed to make sense < 1315840261 841690 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm.. i would say it's a liberal arts thing except mathematics and science are apparently liberal arts < 1315840262 481881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hello I have a lab coat now. < 1315840270 845180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, science isn't. < 1315840278 583931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics is classed as one by weird people. < 1315840302 156364 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i struggle with this wiki sentence too "The contemporary liberal arts comprise studying literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, and science." < 1315840319 846730 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna say "cake, it is because you're not liberal arts type that it doesn't make sense" < 1315840329 930869 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wanted to check up what liberal arts means... and now i'm in a fix < 1315840336 496564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually am something of a "literal arts type" though. < 1315840345 713560 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also by science it might be referring to soft sciences. < 1315840359 653694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1315840376 925699 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just assumed because of the nature of this room < 1315840393 781969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it's any consolation, the label says 'laundry coat' because ones that say 'lab coat' cost twice as much. < 1315840405 517072 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i understand the term at all < 1315840409 996436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think my interest in programming was kind of a fluke. < 1315840467 449329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was probably going to be an English or Anthropology major had I not learned how to program. < 1315840475 921910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Inferior. < 1315840489 762165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was terrible at math through about half of high school. < 1315840496 485923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only class I failed was algebra 2. < 1315840509 978937 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ok then lets say drawing has structure. it isn't just a chaotic set of lines < 1315840511 804653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are indistinguishable from real lab coats. < 1315840529 426765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: except by label. < 1315840531 855912 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is part of the meaning :D < 1315840550 302655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, so are all too many other programmers. < 1315840565 402102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, it was the removable label held on by a bit of plastic. < 1315840582 530534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: still terrible at math you mean < 1315840583 184286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315840591 640026 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, < 1315840595 99486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1315840598 224734 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315840601 262904 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: taking things even further.. analogy appears between art style and constructed language < 1315840604 824527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are the person above me in lines said on IRC < 1315840610 11543 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you represent numbrs greater then 8 bit in bf < 1315840610 172183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will be competing with you < 1315840611 818352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you are online < 1315840613 503157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say more lines < 1315840621 895265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DO YOU WISH TO HEAR ABOUT ALL THE WONDERFUL MCMAP IMPROVEMENTS COMING < 1315840634 349479 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maniac: difficultly < 1315840641 935690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maniac, same way you do it in everything else with fixed-size words. < 1315840671 138059 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i will have to respresent numbers in different bytes? < 1315840677 687788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315840684 411444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever said it was easy < 1315840695 582437 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well.. if you draw something in an (checks the word) axonometric projection, it means you start following some rules < 1315840715 726502 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe thats where the grammar part comes in < 1315840757 202256 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure he's saying the terminology of axonometric projection has gained a new significance in the advent of visual computing blah blah blah < 1315840796 309562 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if it's a liberal arts dude, he's not thinking about formal grammars. < 1315840814 385933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just thinking of nice words to say. < 1315840820 465026 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, i might be wrong here < 1315840840 53043 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that i have missed the point by a wide margin :D < 1315840867 876240 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: how many pixels would that margin be? < 1315840896 44562 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 < 1315840906 812814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you used em or inches, then it would depend on your display. < 1315840928 177328 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking CSS. < 1315841310 192555 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, slightly related: < 1315841318 226625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841318 903022 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEETLP < 1315841330 948105 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a form in its own right. This work is unprecedented because it is constructed of purely abstract units of Mondrian’s new system. < 1315841349 750300 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Paul Wood says: ‘’They constituted, so to speak, the first elements in a new pictorial grammar, from which subsequent compositions would be built up. The new abstractions were now built up from combinations of the simplest, completely abstract, pictorial units (geometrical forms: lines, rectangles, bars, later coloured planes)." < 1315841389 938033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1315841405 791944 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im quoting disparate sources about unrelated things < 1315841415 986711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841421 528178 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. < 1315841424 549451 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1315841429 682317 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can i say.. < 1315841591 620600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841592 263533 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSCBDKK < 1315841594 958892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841595 128894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841595 290224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841595 490610 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841595 650723 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. asshole. < 1315841598 484203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1315841602 30664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong line. < 1315841607 232345 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841607 912903 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKSMSPFB < 1315841608 552362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841609 139313 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MCPI < 1315841610 719401 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841611 390276 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTHNTSIM < 1315841612 413900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841612 688333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841613 36185 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTPL < 1315841613 281233 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TQKOBJSG < 1315841615 200510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315841615 792133 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSAHTT < 1315841636 966948 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro 3 5 < 1315841637 678140 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPPGD < 1315841657 509882 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of the shorter ones are pretty believable acronyms < 1315841666 226910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro 3 5 < 1315841682 415045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!acro 3 5 < 1315841687 674297 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMSHEXMJSL < 1315841753 858252 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :professor: "but in Vista, it gets kind of HTML... horrible." < 1315841790 553227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :distinguished scholar of our age. < 1315841969 981344 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what gets kind of HTML? < 1315842018 434758 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... HTML gets HTML horrible, I guess. < 1315842214 919459 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/tag/line-drawings/ < 1315842278 409118 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this link mind you is wordy article full of over-analysis and theoretical flibber flabber just to warn < 1315842596 974612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must capture the fizzie and use him as a debugging tool. < 1315843071 973524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a dinner. < 1315843077 905229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I'm at least momentarily here. < 1315843176 923120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ORTV < 1315843177 712983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN < 1315843293 927410 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall: take a look. < 1315843363 299139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do it on pyralspite, so I can watch the hilarious mishaps. :p < 1315843369 108416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Advice may not be: good.) < 1315843380 699047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than doing it on c.nerd.nu, at least. < 1315843385 413204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's that. < 1315843401 360117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you even connected to the 'spite without getting disconnected immediately yet? < 1315843402 691122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on the first attempt it did exactly what you said it would do, which was to hang. < 1315843412 558249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, this was the first time. < 1315843460 619149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I was running the Scheme branch, so that you could get every chat message annoyingly repeated back to you. < 1315843516 940655 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I just misclicked disconnect. < 1315843545 215491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1315843575 10781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like DOWNGRADE HAHAHAHAHA < 1315843576 333390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :L O L < 1315844020 967027 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I may see. < 1315844028 601750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What doth thou see'st? < 1315844068 187746 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not because of that; never mind. < 1315844100 152086 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try a thing anyhow. < 1315844113 337218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it, out of curcuorourousrousrosity? < 1315844115 145276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cucumberosity. < 1315844161 37487 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, commands are picked out in proxy.c; I was temporarily worried it might call the command processor there, which of course would make the proxy-stopping not work; but they're not, they're handled in the world-updating thread like I thought they were. < 1315844219 241087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't we have a thing for, you know, specifically safely killing the world thread? Mayhaps that would be good. < 1315844243 259466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i killed you < 1315844508 515903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not especially safe; it's just the stop() call, which g_thread_exit(0)s instead of exit(1)ing; it only kills the world thread by virtue of being called from the world thread. The execl will kill all the threads anyway. < 1315844510 513821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have killed fizzie in real life. < 1315844513 890104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there we go. < 1315844656 380291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:41 also < 1315844656 617303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:42 fizzief left the game. < 1315844656 777604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:42 [INFO] Player disappeared: fizzief < 1315844656 777796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:44 have you moved from that block < 1315844720 406337 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :p < 1315844732 862401 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1315845222 298890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think fizzie is just continually trying the same thing. < 1315845223 874177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, insanity. < 1315845236 184118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not always been quite the same thing. < 1315845526 122186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: EGG SPAWNED BEAUTIFUL CHICKEN < 1315845530 791043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PET < 1315845531 784562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRIEND < 1315845533 805124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVER < 1315845646 644098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes. < 1315845653 932356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1315845702 996631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your execl() fails. You don't get the tell() out of it, because by that time the proxy thread (which does packet injection) will have already failed. The execl fails because (a) the "fd" argument is an int, not a char* to a stringized version of the fd, and (b) there's no (char *)NULL at the end of the execl. < 1315845715 261827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end result is that just the proxy thread dies. < 1315845722 509028 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315845724 379287 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1315845726 186799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha oops < 1315845729 845894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can fix that < 1315845747 959795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for being a dumbo < 1315845777 82643 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stared at the code for quite a while but didn't see it; took a bit of stepping in gdb to notice. < 1315845805 677669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_print should work even after console_cleanup right? < 1315845823 564378 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh. In theory, yes. In practice it depends on how clean console_cleanup is. < 1315845830 275678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1315845857 215920 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to set console_outfd = 1, so after that log_print should go directly to stdout. < 1315845864 623805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1315845864 787140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: < 1315845864 947327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : mcmap [OPTION…] host[:port] < 1315845868 116105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here's a new problem. < 1315845876 622026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it doesn't fuck up the console now. < 1315845884 125768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (argv[1] && !strcmp(argv[1], "--upgrade")) < 1315845884 451321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1315845884 611340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : upgrading = true; < 1315845884 611632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : upgrade_fd = atoi(argv[2]); < 1315845884 611738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : argv[2] = argv[0]; < 1315845884 907754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : argv += 2; < 1315845886 596185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : argc -= 2; < 1315845888 768101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315845889 457281 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315845890 135133 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BVBMTS < 1315845891 996881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I got an off-by-one here ir something? < 1315845898 903754 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!acro < 1315845902 249559 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :XYQTSWQM < 1315845912 176734 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fuck < 1315845918 955303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fuck < 1315845922 916493 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/fuck: line 9: sqlite3: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/fuck: line 17: sqlite3: command not found \ Congratulations! 's action has brought a beautiful new baby into the world. Isn't it adorable? < 1315845932 194750 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315845958 954694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you're passing the old argv[1]..argv[N] into the exec at the moment. < 1315845959 282092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hm. < 1315845968 200932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that's intentional, since I should just persist map state instead. But hmm. < 1315845974 519883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there's the problem, I don't skip the parsing. < 1315845981 188169 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case you'll want to skip that, right. < 1315846037 206723 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315846040 982109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck? Now the new parts of the map load, but all black. < 1315846043 280261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they load from grey into black. < 1315846072 610336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they still hover correctly. < 1315846079 637493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1315846082 38726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skipped loading colours. < 1315846083 353779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315846092 576608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't want to skip parsing. < 1315846097 359603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want to re-run the Scheme config. < 1315846151 532711 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, ZOMBIES < 1315846158 797084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what was that convenience function in glib you said to concatenate two null-terminated lists of strings eh fizzie? :P < 1315846225 216165 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure the real argv is legal to modify everywhere, incidentally. So it might be that you just want to build a new one in the "--upgrade" flag-check. < 1315846255 193042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you are allowed to modify argv? < 1315846258 893893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's my perception. < 1315846262 680828 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's widely done. < 1315846271 771524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hardly the biggest wart. :p < 1315846274 95637 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv is canonically, pedantically const. < 1315846289 321665 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a single system in existence that implements it as such though. < 1315846318 178149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the other question, g_strjoinv + g_strconcat + g_strsplit, but that depends on there being a real separator that's never in any of the component strings. I thought it had more of the null-terminated-lists-of-strings functions than it had. < 1315846386 870141 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO/IEC 9899:TC2 §5.1.2.2.1 ¶2: < 1315846387 95428 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parameters argc and argv and the strings pointed to by the argv array shall < 1315846390 223503 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :be modiï¬�able by the program, and retain their last-stored values between program < 1315846393 682313 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :startup and program termination. < 1315846426 865434 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, TC2, that's like not even C99. < 1315846428 371669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1315846440 579355 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall from somewhere that POSIX and C disagree on the matter :P < 1315846451 265842 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ELF spec makes them writable too. < 1315846458 769406 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't afford ISO/IEC 9899:1999 itself. < 1315846516 608550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no unlink() for fds, is there? :p < 1315846540 467478 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dear server: Please unlink your listening TCP socket. kthx. < 1315846547 75832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Quite. < 1315846550 857906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't ioctl many things, too. < 1315846567 709050 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; in any case, it's a bit debatable what it should do when the link count is more than one, too. < 1315846620 221037 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort-of assuming that the glib temporary files would've come pre-unlinked when you don't ask for the name (NULL as one of those params), but the documentation didn't really say. < 1315846638 3935 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on all those /tmp/mcmap.FOOs, maybe not. < 1315846655 175042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, can you really unlink a file and keep using the fd properly? < 1315846674 196542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:58:27 [DIED] Unknown option --upgrade < 1315846679 160104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap, dude, you upgraded two times without complaint. < 1315846679 650827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on most systems. < 1315846679 816015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1315846681 957410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. < 1315846688 549804 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on Windows, though. :p < 1315846691 22107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to set main_argc/main_argv after mutating it in my if (upgrade) code. :p < 1315846697 500379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, none of this works on Windows right now :P < 1315846700 931368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least I think not on Windows.) < 1315846741 89847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, um. http://sprunge.us/LMaZ < 1315846751 911444 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just fopen'd the file, I think the unlink would fail. < 1315846752 581686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make this unlink the temporary file properly, would this be something vaguely committable? < 1315846759 841905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no major ugliness in it, after all. < 1315846770 477416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When the file's link count becomes 0 and no process has the file open, the space occupied by the file shall be freed and the file shall no longer be accessible. If one or more processes have the file open when the last link is removed, the link shall be removed before unlink() returns, but the removal of the file contents shall be postponed until all references to the file are closed." < 1315846773 654976 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from POSIX. < 1315846775 986386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously it still has the "major sections of the map are black", "steals focus", ... bugs ... but it's basic upgrade. < 1315846782 572906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, neat. < 1315846795 547571 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the unlink-and-still-use should be POSIXly mostly-good. < 1315846816 960885 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315846843 379119 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows you have to specifically say FILE_SHARE_DELETE in the dwShareMode of CreateFile to make that happen. < 1315846887 116261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the options don't seem to be heeded yet. Hm. < 1315846906 263946 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you thought you had to close before unlinking? < 1315846912 433599 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Windows bullshit. < 1315846945 76214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't assume anything any more, dude; we're creating a temporary file, writing binary, machine-specific data to it, unlinking it, then execing ourselves and passing the decimal representation of the fd, < 1315846957 85095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that we can convert it back to a number, read the data from it, restore, then jump into our main code path. < 1315846959 803427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't assume anything any more, dude. < 1315846974 954007 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... none of that is particularly controversial. < 1315846985 191374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's new to me :P < 1315846989 579392 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arguments you pass are irrelevant so long as you don't close the FD. < 1315847019 531907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But, but, the serialised data /includes socket fds/ that we depend on being kept over the exec, which we then immediately start proxying on. < 1315847024 836142 :maniac!kaus@117.201.51.176 NICK :Warrior` < 1315847042 619502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it just includes the FD numbers, then that's just dandy, you still haven't closed them. < 1315847054 361468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it WORKS, but it still feels INSANE :P < 1315847091 739745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, um, yes, about that... committing... can I... < 1315847092 255439 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember SMAUG (a MUD server) had a hack that you could upgrade the server without disconnecting anyone. < 1315847099 668812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: irssi has it too :P < 1315847113 422919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And now finally your long-running mcmap sessions can survive a rebuild with a simple //upgrade. < 1315847118 319972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming we didn't change the upgrade format. At all. < 1315847123 604681 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray < 1315847193 318858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But mostly it means that you can e.g. reload your Scheme configuration without it being in a weirdly inconsistent state :P < 1315847198 765223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And without dropping your connection. < 1315847220 696096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file thing should work on Windows too, it just needs the proper CreateFile calls. (In particular the SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES needs bInheritHandle of true, and dwShareMode that FILE_SHARE_DELETE for the delete-before-close... and I'm not entirely sure how you pass an inherited handle. Oh, and then of course you'd have to make the sockets inheritable somehow, that might be more complicated.) < 1315847230 483699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/mcmap$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib build/mcmap --upgrade 0 x < 1315847230 681174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:07:42 [INFO] Starting up... < 1315847230 842104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :99a < 1315847230 842291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :svdsf < 1315847230 842397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:07:44 [DIED] read_buffer failed to read data < 1315847231 304936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hm." < 1315847258 728148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the last time, does anyone know how to tell SDL to steal the goddamn focus? X-D < 1315847267 174323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of ruined if WHOOPS MINECRAFT IS ON THE MENU AND NOW YOU'RE FOCUSED ON THIS MAP WINDOW < 1315847334 44235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL's approach to window management is somewhat minimalistic. < 1315847341 849599 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315847411 75235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even care if I need to fuck with the X socket :P < 1315847411 734315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually < 1315847412 281366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really < 1315847417 684134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want is to not SDL_Quit at all < 1315847421 196467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really want to maintain the surface < 1315847422 74946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1315847430 412045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if I just serialised the surface structure along with everything else < 1315847432 546756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't SDL_Quit < 1315847434 203629 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so not supported it's not even funny. < 1315847435 712703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And used it as the surface value post < 1315847438 712932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes of course it isn't < 1315847447 281191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only thing it'll be maintaining is state, and an fd that'll survive, right? < 1315847450 658314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it should work. < 1315847465 796938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is now removing my commit rights. < 1315847475 175435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you scared yet? :P < 1315847475 509688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. It's probably got all kinds of pointers into SDL's internal surface lists and whatevers. < 1315847491 692303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weeeell, let's look, shall we? < 1315847501 383434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 Uint32 flags; /* Read-only */ < 1315847501 547169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 SDL_PixelFormat *format; /* Read-only */ < 1315847501 708311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 int w, h; /* Read-only */ < 1315847501 708473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 Uint16 pitch; /* Read-only */ < 1315847501 708573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 void *pixels; /* Read-write */ < 1315847502 406465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 SDL_Rect clip_rect; /* Read-only */ < 1315847504 340804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 int refcount; /* Read-mostly */ < 1315847507 879103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels will be repopulated by map_repaint. < 1315847511 504440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all that needs to be copied is the format. < 1315847519 472474 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the officially accessible parts. < 1315847522 199931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just integers plus a pointer to a palette. < 1315847524 374804 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : /** Hardware-specific surface info */ < 1315847524 534858 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct private_hwdata *hwdata; < 1315847528 137282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh BUH. < 1315847537 701125 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That in particular is not going to survive well. < 1315847540 524332 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood, you can totally serialize a private_hwdata * < 1315847566 3626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, so what if I used SDL's setvideomode type stuff, but then actually just ripped the fd from underneath it? < 1315847584 615980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll ask hash-sdl or something. _That_ would be fun. < 1315847585 273007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t/opic < 1315847641 334178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I asked. Ha ha ha. < 1315847653 527593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God they think I'm mad don't they. < 1315847656 237685 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the double-buffering back-buffer which will get blown to pieces by the exec. As for using SDL_SetVideoMode, it will make a new window before you have a chance to mung around with it. < 1315847666 635241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's why I'ma sking. :p < 1315847667 847370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking < 1315847677 834713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems easier/nicer than making a new window and doing hacks to defocus it by finding the Minecraft window. < 1315847688 741820 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They will probably be all "why do you want to do this?" < 1315847694 678617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : isbric: mod rewrite is evil? < 1315847698 34659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop chatting guys. < 1315847702 253519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : mod rewrite is irrelevant < 1315847704 933446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has NOTHING to do with sdl. < 1315847715 512639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've learnt that that's secret code for "I don't know". < 1315847716 687470 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, they're... non-topical?! < 1315847724 256224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NON-TOPICAL CHNANELS ARE BANNED < 1315847726 605967 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS < 1315847726 798063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRENODE POLICY < 1315847728 382152 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT THE FUCK UP < 1315847733 391036 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT ESOTERICA < 1315847737 283270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : its behaviour is perfectly valid < 1315847737 446598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what you should take away from it is never to trust file extensions < 1315847739 620730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER TRUST FILE EXTENSIONS < 1315847742 172926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY CREATE THE VOODOO MAGICKA < 1315847743 653771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF THE UH < 1315847744 639363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOAT SACRIFICE < 1315847747 635134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor am i doing it right < 1315847747 838803 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP I'LL K-LINE YOU TO THE AETHEREAL PLANE < 1315847754 945544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aethereal" X-D < 1315847765 287582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP I'LL K-LINE YOU TO THE AETHEREAL PLANE < 1315847767 433737 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :654) IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP I'LL K-LINE YOU TO THE AETHEREAL PLANE < 1315847808 320253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : prophile: true that, i feel that your a BSD or rather *NIX user :P < 1315847815 647065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, my a BSD or rather nix user is aching nowadays. < 1315847835 999773 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that. < 1315847839 197291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is there a way to tell if a list in Haskell is infinite? The reason is that I don't want to apply functions such as length to infinite lists." < 1315847851 96220 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HahahaFAIL. < 1315847879 12093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I don't think hash-SDL are even /interested/ in my question. < 1315847890 118913 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's CRYSTAL ALIGNMENT okay to be off-topic GEOMANTIC VIBRATIONS as long as we CHANNELING THETANS add suitable on-topic DOWSING BREATHARIAN words in-between. < 1315847948 58236 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's because your question is terrible :P < 1315847958 249349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Say I wanted to maintain an SDL surface corresponding to an X window across an exec(). I understand that serialising the SDL_Surface is not really possible since it contains a bunch of pointers to internal SDL things. < 1315847958 412531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there any way (hacky or not) to make SDL create a surface on an existing X windows fd? < 1315847962 627756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS A PERFECTLY OK QUESTION < 1315847971 803391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("or not" -- yeah right) < 1315847986 835216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So... what does a private_hwdata look like? < 1315848049 124570 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the display driver. < 1315848085 517846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X. :p < 1315848182 989841 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric? aleister crowley! < 1315848183 354143 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For X11, it's a struct with Display *s, Visual *s, three Windows, XIM and XIC handles, a XShmSegmentInfo handle to the corresponding X shared-memory segment if that exists, a backing XImage*, a GC on that, mouse warping settings, an SDL_Rect** list of modes, few more Visual*s, Xinerama/XRandR/XVidMode pointers, and the colormaps. < 1315848187 281082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite a few other things. < 1315848195 33083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm crying. < 1315848203 905238 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD < 1315848208 117515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how about that de-focus thing? X-D < 1315848247 424575 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about you just make your xmonad.hs or whatever not let mcmap ever steal the focus?-) < 1315848252 189920 :Warrior`!kaus@117.201.51.176 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1315848269 319508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1315848357 14051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, ehhh, can I commit this thing? I even abstracted out the serialisation buffer reading/writing stuff, so the ugly level is really low outside the two bits of main.c and cmd.c. < 1315848412 237448 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you want. It's not so distracting, and even if it breaks, it's the user's own fault for typing //upgrade. < 1315848430 116822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesss < 1315848447 564331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh god, I have to merge it into the Guile branch < 1315848462 916236 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, please; I don't want to. :p < 1315848467 535279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SO MANY CONFLICTS < 1315848470 327109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1315848473 532130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315848733 233362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1315848915 125781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Holy crap, I merged and //upgrade worked _first time_. < 1315848953 323098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should try it, it's truly a wonder to behold. :p < 1315849108 727654 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315849173 668220 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1315849186 100345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Guess who just connected to c.nerd.nu with my "automatically repeat all chat" hook. < 1315849191 497740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oops." < 1315849198 565189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: < 1315849219 97685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you turning into Lymee. < 1315849229 679140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat. < 1315849247 952768 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Guess who just tried to connect to [REDACTED] with the old that hook: http://p.zem.fi/m2yc < 1315849275 864731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You don't have to redact it; it's whitelisted. Though I guess I don't really want the domain publicly logged. < 1315849288 581718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, packet-fields now does alist, not vectors. < 1315849293 581318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use-modules (ice-9 regex)) < 1315849293 910416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (scrub str) < 1315849294 69883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (regexp-substitute/global #f "§." str 'pre 'post)) < 1315849294 70088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on-packet server (chat packet) < 1315849294 70198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (let ((scrubbed (scrub (packet-field packet 'message)))) < 1315849295 556942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (not (string-match "^" scrubbed)) < 1315849297 531282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (chat (string-append "You said: " scrubbed))))) < 1315849299 544263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the new code. < 1315849299 703638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're replicating Lymee's carefully honed annoying ping technique. < 1315849311 209462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. WEll. You know. breaking news, and all that. < 1315849317 56941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puncuation, who neds it. < 1315849336 162070 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's funny, the newly created window wasn't auto-floating, unlike the old one which (with -s NxM) is. < 1315849349 666212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It also doesn't seem to respect the sizes, for some reason. < 1315849355 679646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll fix the "black map parts" bug first, though. < 1315849364 483425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... < 1315849365 795791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be hard. < 1315849368 453187 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that and the black map parts, it workeded. < 1315849370 464913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cna't just esrialise regions, pointers and whatnot. < 1315849382 71935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to write map_serialize/map_deserialize? :p < 1315849385 857837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise to plug it in nicely if you do. < 1315849393 976080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even nice functions for it exclamation mark < 1315849471 660921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be reasonably doable, except it would make one honking huge temporary file. < 1315849519 996833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Come to think of it, you could just finish the regionfile code, or at least make it slightly /less/ broken, and then it'd just be a few ints or whatever and no duplicated work. < 1315849531 968569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't /that/ broken, is it? < 1315849578 763660 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fifty new exoplanets discovered! < 1315849588 658343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1315849592 443509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's Rosyarrow? < 1315849603 77185 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still the same < 1315849606 672455 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely been on < 1315849678 892671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, I don't see why the regionfile code shouldn't always be on, even if "on" means "/tmp/mcmap.region.sodijasjdois". < 1315849682 518581 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1315849719 467402 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... the existing functions could be used for the "write out everything" / "read in everything" functions, that much is true. Though again that takes very much disk space, takes quite an annoyingly long time (all that compression) and would actually require a whole temporary directory tree that'd then get cleaned up in all cases. < 1315849746 235808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, what I meant is, have regionfile code on from the start. < 1315849753 206184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointed at a tmp directory if the user doesn't elect to specifically use it. < 1315849753 865795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely missing the logic of when to write chunks to disk. < 1315849759 619735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's literally just the standard restore process. < 1315849771 364431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, nothing has to be done, other than telling it to use /tmp/blah. < 1315849775 480542 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also have I already mentioned it's quite a lot of disk space? < 1315849784 407608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was gzipped < 1315849788 3113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should really not be that much disk space. < 1315849797 85301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it should not use more disk than mcmap uses ram. < 1315849808 586739 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large is your world? < 1315849816 863639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite. < 1315849822 378305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I explore only finite areas. < 1315849833 870945 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean, "your world folder on that server". < 1315849846 92333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fact is, mcmap never unloads chunks, and people have about a hundred times more disk than RAM, so it should not matter at all. < 1315849857 38292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's, what, twenty four, thirty megs? It's a small server. < 1315849858 692839 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft again < 1315849859 444573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not very relevant. < 1315849867 254455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp is often not very large either. < 1315849868 899107 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 1/8 out? < 1315849872 80553 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.8* < 1315849877 702800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, ~/.mcmap/tmp then. :p < 1315849895 944061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, there is no way you can have enough RAM for mcmap but not the same amount of disk. < 1315849906 457061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say two gigs is acceptable RAM usage but a ~huge~ file; it's incoherent. < 1315849990 154226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, have I mentioned, it'd make //upgrade better. :p < 1315850003 320573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, seriously, there's no good reason not to use the regionfile stuff all the time. < 1315850026 43030 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about having the disk space, it's about wasting it for something like this. Also doing the the disk IO for no benefit, if it's not going to be persisted between sessions. < 1315850045 642461 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, have I mentioned there's currently no logic to decide when chunks need to be flushed to disk? < 1315850058 517212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have; I'm arguing under the assumption that it starts existing. < 1315850062 508849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, OK then; default to /tmp. < 1315850069 291552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's quite literally identical to in-RAM storage. < 1315850078 886814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe it'll get too big; this is called tradeoff time. :p < 1315850100 234197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on a completely different tack, < 1315850106 868437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would shm or something allow the sharing of the existing addresses? < 1315850108 505341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without copying. < 1315850118 118053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, only copying shm → new structures. < 1315850125 236932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than old structures → something → new structures. < 1315850138 889570 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll also leave all those in-/tmp world saves around, since the cleanup will never work; the standard way for mcmap to shut down is probably to crash. :p < 1315850150 960879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe for you. :p < 1315850157 708639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can hook into segfaults at least. < 1315850158 512922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL does. < 1315850198 645149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not safe to do filesystem operations from a signal handler. (It's pretty much not safe to do anything from one.) < 1315850201 280195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaanyway. < 1315850303 449968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a shared memory segment that you attach to a defined address, but it of course might not work due to ASLR and such. < 1315850349 177895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using offsets as opposed to pointers can of course mitigate that to some extent, and probably the indirection in many cases doesn't cost all that much. < 1315850357 586241 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315850361 96106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you can't malloc() new storage out of a shared memory segment. < 1315850384 459658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think the only person who will ever have problems with regionfile-always in practice will be Vorpal, and that's because he tries to make any change to the architecture as awkward as possible. Actually maybe he should just stay on whatever revision he's on, forever. < 1315850416 769393 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may write a lambda calculus tutorial < 1315850436 207133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't turn a private memory segment into a shared one later on, though. < 1315850438 401517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://codu.org/lambda/lambda.html < 1315850472 71918 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a tutorial < 1315850473 652584 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all < 1315850490 475380 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a calculator < 1315850497 562455 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It would help a tutorial. < 1315850513 932352 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay < 1315850515 580452 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks! < 1315850515 762422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But yes, honestly, it would be nice if we could avoid copying/serialisation. < 1315850532 190252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if we used MAP_ANONYMOUS and somehow made it a shared segment? < 1315850539 359890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then just passed the address over. < 1315850565 829921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap's permanent memory allocations come from like three places, so it's not that awkward to use a pool, or several. < 1315850576 546762 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that lambda page created from yesterday's chat? < 1315850611 108513 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... im guessing not < 1315850616 714611 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315850667 165843 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i clicked start < 1315850683 167281 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i realized this ain't no "was that lambda page created from yesterday's chat" < 1315850725 863470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your evaluation of (Yc Yc) grows indefinitely. :( < 1315850731 485351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can get it constant with some speculative evaluation. < 1315850735 277268 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have a MAP_ANONYMOUS mapping survive exec in any way. If you're willing to put all your stuff into a specifically allocated memory area, you can use shm_open and then mmap that into both the original process and the post-//upgrade process, but there's no real guarantee you're going to be able to do that to the same address. < 1315850760 896961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So there's literally no way to share memory between two processes without some kind of copying? < 1315850766 186899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post process-mortem. < 1315850770 127446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It supports several evaluation strategies, although it doesn't currently present them as options :P < 1315850796 208765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does sharing right? ...I THINK the untyped LC can do sharing... < 1315850797 357348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The shm_open + mmap doesn't involve any copying; it just might be in a different location afterwards. < 1315850798 169372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P < 1315850807 880956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, that's not a big deal, is it? < 1315850812 662355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as there's a predictable way to get that location. < 1315850824 676991 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh.. friggen lambda.. < 1315850825 254102 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on what you put there. < 1315850834 749777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it invalidates pointers, but you can avoid storing those. :p < 1315850843 20426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can just subtract the base address from any pointer. < 1315850846 31417 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call this tutorial? < 1315850857 235614 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: Using offsets as opposed to pointers can of course mitigate that to some extent, and probably the indirection in many cases doesn't cost all that much. < 1315850859 866309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :λWTF? < 1315850869 509604 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, 1 = successor to zero eh < 1315850881 835717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 discovers... THE PEANO POSTULATES < 1315850896 835395 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just saw a picture of it :-s < 1315850906 810803 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = (succ)(zero) :P < 1315850912 452802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You do explicit alpha renaming. :( at your evaluation strategy, :(. < 1315850964 594598 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so.. 2 = successor to the successor of zero.. ahh what a curious thing < 1315850972 808673 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All about lambda? < 1315850973 666858 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The alpha renaming is explicit so as to maintain some vague semblence of readability. < 1315850983 967058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: De Bruijn, man :P < 1315850992 891104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can convert that to explicitly-bound form at display time. < 1315850994 62112 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This tutorial isn't going to get very far without a name < 1315851007 246744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can even associate names with indices in contexts so that the display is consistent wrt transforms.) < 1315851087 63226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: :P <-- wat < 1315851112 692243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can pure untyped LC with no frills do sharing? < 1315851165 884215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, it can do lazy evaluation which means each argument to a function is only evaluated once < 1315851219 557209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need frills if you want to share things defined in terms of themselves, though. < 1315851246 32016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315851275 325798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. when you translate let x = whatever x in x to LC using self-application, sharing disappears) < 1315851287 729744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it there's a way to recover that < 1315851299 181216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all that's needed to reduce (Y Y) to (Y Y) rather than growing infinitely is speculative evaluation, right? < 1315851314 673282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315851329 515878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i discovered this when thinking about lazy-k < 1315851341 671728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my idea was simply to cache self-applications < 1315851354 256357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Y comment was separate, btw < 1315851365 406345 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is bad that there are two mathmeticians with places in history called Alonzo Church < 1315851371 726874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and i'm not talking about infinite growth, you don't need sharing to avoid that < 1315851377 948485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know that < 1315851382 620851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, it was a separate comment < 1315851394 462174 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are related < 1315851395 402202 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1315851409 738234 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb a persons date of birth is intentionally a private matter. or else it could be encoded within his name :P < 1315851430 216860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've thought about S I I (S I I) in that vein, and avoiding growth for that requires sometimes evaluating I x in non-head position < 1315851440 607411 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the word intentionally is too strong < 1315851441 751238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume Y Y would be similar < 1315851464 683439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, so basically speculative evaluation, no? < 1315851472 437633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating things you're not required to because you think they'll help :P < 1315851488 636843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah. but you can also detect certain functions which always cheap to apply, such as I < 1315851496 182365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*which are < 1315851501 103502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315851524 870302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, general, space-and-time-efficient, non-strict LC small-step reducers < 1315851527 673102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOGOGOGOGO EVERYONE < 1315851539 555865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is to reduce every topic in here to research problems < 1315851546 715209 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll bring the coffee < 1315851583 846984 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos, i'm not shy with the number of teaspoons of coffee < 1315851608 77374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he ain't shy < 1315851632 963607 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any luck you can have panic attacks at 5am just like me < 1315851662 872927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I still think the only person who will ever have problems with regionfile-always in practice will be Vorpal, and that's because he tries to make any change to the architecture as awkward as possible. Actually maybe he should just stay on whatever revision he's on, forever. <-- what does that change do? < 1315851681 187214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the mcregion-bsaed caching-and-persistence system. < 1315851689 392393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should use less disk than mcmap uses in RAM. < 1315851691 711714 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in other words i put as much as 2 heaped teaspoons of coffee in my mug < 1315851716 833355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fair enough. Would be a problem on a thin client, but I doubt anyone would use that for running mcmap < 1315851725 379651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Only 2? < 1315851734 844371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See, even Vorpal is 0kay with it. < 1315851741 680280 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, only 2 < 1315851754 748338 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I have no need for coffee, but I have a friend who takes two and a half, black, no sugar < 1315851762 824861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in worst case I guess I could put it on tmpfs. The disk in the laptop I use for mcmap is quite slow, 5400 RPM < 1315851770 193293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not an SSD < 1315851776 993962 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315851778 459034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have had a problem with it if it used ssd < 1315851785 281929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used* < 1315851786 253773 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: he sounds like a badass < 1315851788 88197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, tired < 1315851799 293372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SSD write-cycles are not really anything to worry about any more. < 1315851806 861720 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Nah, she just likes her coffee like that < 1315851807 686551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, /tmp would certainly work. < 1315851812 375068 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1315851816 56545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The nice thing about doing it by default is that it'll make the new //upgrade work seamlessly. :p < 1315851816 769459 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god its a female < 1315851819 210361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now it loses your map data. < 1315851820 355099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-19 at university today. Quite tired. < 1315851835 387312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait what, upgrade without reconnecting? < 1315851839 872856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if so: why the fuck < 1315851851 703060 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My /tmp is only 512M. :/ < 1315851853 118970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, mcmap doesn't need that < 1315851862 390407 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry taneb, im just kidding for dramatic effect < 1315851867 931713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's already written. < 1315851874 442698 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I asked the very same question; apparently simply because it can be done. < 1315851879 710171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315851884 706558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, you'll want to reload your Scheme configuration when that stuff is done. < 1315851891 799463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this the HA edition of mcmap < 1315851898 601440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well be a _proper_ reload that also works for upgrades, not just a deinitialise-Scheme-somehow-and-argh-I-don't-even-know hack. < 1315851904 910860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, I'm not on a scheme branch at all < 1315851915 960794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, I don't recommend anyone be on that branch right now. < 1315851917 607980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use //upgrade. < 1315851919 912025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't played mc for quite a while now, like 3 weeks < 1315851922 214175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in both branches but lacks... polish. < 1315851959 718864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway you need to pass on the FDs I guess. Would that even work on the windows build? < 1315851960 207228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, 89 people in this room now - think that is a new record < 1315851964 885665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NOBODY ANSWERING MY QUESTION < 1315851967 515936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, with exec() < 1315851976 589772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently Windows has something for it. But no, currently the built is so broken on Windows, you have no idea. < 1315851981 977112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would just be a simple ifdef to fix it again.) < 1315851985 931660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1315851986 96847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : The file thing should work on Windows too, it just needs the proper CreateFile calls. (In particular the SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES needs bInheritHandle of true, and dwShareMode that FILE_SHARE_DELETE for the delete-before-close... and I'm not entirely sure how you pass an inherited handle. Oh, and then of course you'd have to make the sockets inheritable somehow, that might be more complicated.) < 1315851988 414555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that's dignifying the Hack with such things.) < 1315852001 20238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/4edb5be2f9c6625151707294ece06b2374d98ce9 < 1315852005 481487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1315852007 287644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Please enjoy this terrifying yet short diff. < 1315852038 187584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm kind of tired. Too tired to read C code certainly. < 1315852056 53155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sleep won't help you understand it. < 1315852065 336655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 6 hours of lectures in one go is kind of... eugh < 1315852077 671556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At least gawp at the cmd.c part at the very top. < 1315852083 368575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short and the most maximally terrifying part. < 1315852089 895103 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: char fd_str[256]; snprintf(fd_str, sizeof(fd_str), "%d", fd); => char *fd_str = g_strdup_printf("%d", fd); < 1315852094 721902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :first bison & lex and other things about compiler design for 2 hour, then linear algebra for 4 hours. < 1315852100 344419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That allocates, and I'd have to free it post-execv, which is never. < 1315852110 442095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory leaks, don'tchaknow. < 1315852136 299840 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already just throw away the proxy_serialize_state buffer, which is far larger. < 1315852150 631795 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315852152 841966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right, I'll fix that. < 1315852157 577729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well cmd.c seems straightforward. I seen this trick done in IRCds before. I assume the id for the network fd is fixed? < 1315852166 5846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there it is < 1315852166 656348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No? < 1315852167 720740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the argument < 1315852170 688201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1315852171 14999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah tired < 1315852176 622964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it's not the network fd. < 1315852182 112562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an fd created from a temporary file just to pass serialised state around. < 1315852183 766793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that has to go somewhere. < 1315852186 810555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual fds are hidden inside that byte stream. < 1315852196 590555 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you a grad student? < 1315852199 300909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah yes, same thing as that ircd did, except it used pipes iirc. < 1315852210 848388 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The process is going to exit in a few lines, you're going to be "leaking" all the world data and everything if you insist on freeing everything for the exec. < 1315852217 236577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I don't remember the US system. Please convert to Swedish system or clarify yourself < 1315852221 22403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BUT THEY'RE NOT LOCAL LEAKS < 1315852222 149738 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1315852230 127552 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a degree yet? < 1315852239 174348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I'm a compsci student, bachelor level, third (and last) year for that. < 1315852246 518315 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WELL WHAT ABOUT WHEN THE FD IS LARGER THAN 10^256 HUH? < 1315852262 23086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: THEN YOU'RE IN FUTURE SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1315852263 437900 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal, well i mean, it sounds like they have some tough classes :D < 1315852266 30288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU PLAYING MINECRAFT GO FUTURE VR < 1315852276 111293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: eh, isn't it just that the US education system sucks? < 1315852285 698681 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am in AUS system which is probably like the US < 1315852289 504409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315852291 111121 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at the name < 1315852292 317041 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aUS < 1315852296 999629 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315852297 709551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315852306 616157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, the main issues with //upgrade right now are (a) loses your map data, (b) pops up a new map window which steals focus. :/ < 1315852316 561505 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aUS, USa .. its an anagram < 1315852331 717588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also (c) makes me connect to c.nerd.nu with my chat-repeating spamscript. < 1315852335 13616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1315852341 430821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll be on the ban list within a day. < 1315852360 530382 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Maybe a is short for the Scots auld < 1315852368 96374 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Which means senior < 1315852376 961208 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Which can be shortend to sr. < 1315852385 183096 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: SO YOU LIVE IN THE USSR < 1315852409 110301 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terra australis or something < 1315852455 752485 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315852476 342133 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**r** *us**a*is or something < 1315852520 921624 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :**r** *us*****s < 1315852588 535643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm sure I'll be on the ban list within a day. <-- so remove that script? < 1315852595 793863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was a one-time thing < 1315852600 601359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got kicked automatically within four messages < 1315852602 437537 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :austr**ia < 1315852606 176621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :terror mustards < 1315852612 424008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah well, say sorry then or such < 1315852616 366136 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aus****** < 1315852629 929176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt they even noticed; have you _seen_ that thing's chat? < 1315852638 545797 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^russia, ussr, austria, usa < 1315852640 257029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, never been there < 1315852644 533479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing out. < 1315852655 119304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably would kill my mc since I'm using improvedchat, which has scrollback < 1315852669 671910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has line editing and input history < 1315852672 264902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a nice mod < 1315852674 596705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 9 strips left until iwc 3160 aieee (and someone in the forum apparently thought it was 3150) < 1315852682 989146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when working with lots of server commands < 1315852689 93107 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's new posts in the forum? < 1315852694 37214 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't you tell me? < 1315852709 146749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that the CH number? < 1315852716 310216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1315852722 178012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if it ends there, we don't know. He might go for one more, to say he did *more* than that < 1315852728 178233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: erm because i'm reading the forum only twice a week < 1315852734 341609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: latest strip looks _somewhat_ like edging towards a conclusion < 1315852741 323480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I have a good handle on IWC plotlines < 1315852759 400215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I read IWC and I'm not sure I understand the current plot either. < 1315852762 870537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is rather confusing < 1315852767 298179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1315852809 563081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's ok, you still have all those mezzacotta archives to go through... < 1315852816 558666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah yes. < 1315852822 485168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's still updated! daily! < 1315852858 327713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your upgrade command seems to have an issue. No version number on the data that I can spot < 1315852867 588164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you upgrade, the new version might have more state < 1315852876 522067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The version number is, if it crashes, you need to restart it manually. < 1315852884 781327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be able to handle the old state format for true HA. < 1315852896 916770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang patches welcome < 1315852905 599876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315852928 753322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually that would be easy in erlang, there are ready made modules with code to help you do that. < 1315852949 636239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be hard in mcmap either, but really it's for reloading, not particularly "major" upgrading. :p < 1315852971 529173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, worse than instant crash might be a situation where it silently corruptions the data in some subtle way. < 1315852988 392548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hopefully there should soon be an easy-ish way to get mcmap to prompt you to say yes to automatic pull/make if there's new changes before you even connect, bypassing the need entirely in 90 percent of upgrade cases. :p < 1315852998 862401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, reloading, as in reloading config? Or what? < 1315852999 357211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at obsoleting my oen work. < 1315853006 368371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, reloading "scheme shit". < 1315853009 711314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uh, for reloading config that sounds overkill < 1315853015 953260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this sounds overkill for that < 1315853022 948907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to de-initialise Guile that i know of. < 1315853026 819265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hardly overkill, the diff isn't that big. < 1315853034 45611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's certainly cleaner than something hacked specifically for the Scheme support. < 1315853036 497016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nor unload specific scheme scripts? < 1315853050 249090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: besides, what if the scripts in question have state, won't that be lost? < 1315853054 363228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a thing anybody does. I don't like the Emacs model where you just run it over, and all your old variable bindings, hooks, etc. stick around. < 1315853071 416371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but they'd be lost if you restarted mcmap normally anyway; nothing's going to be storing anything massively persistent without, you know, persisting it. < 1315853077 60663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1315853115 791857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: guess you need an on-reload event or such < 1315853123 737560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, on-shutdown maybe < 1315853128 82040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just called "your script is executing". :p < 1315853130 582821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow persisting state < 1315853141 972750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm? There is no way to add a hook for specific events? < 1315853143 766506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see much use for persistent state in scripts but maybe that's my Lack Of Imagination. < 1315853150 251209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Never said that. < 1315853164 858260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that on-reload is easily detectable: if you're not loading, your script's statements aren't executing. < 1315853168 841003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: example: persistent chat history, not a good example I admit < 1315853171 477645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Script: < 1315853174 602001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(display "foo") (newline) < 1315853178 636552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That displays "foo" iff we're reloading. < 1315853195 577019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant before the reload < 1315853197 47057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not after < 1315853207 320474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as in, a hook that allows you to save your state < 1315853216 948391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :before mcmap exits or reloads or whatever < 1315853217 445191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a bit harder. But anyway, this is not a priority, compared to all the other things that need doing. < 1315853224 853323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1315853231 988635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like: working regionfile code, working mostly-autoupdate code, making the Scheme stuff actually usable. < 1315853242 428260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making upgrade not create a new window with lost map data and stealing focus. < 1315853250 783857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite higher priority. :p < 1315853276 225437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm what about a scheme script that did aim assist, for the bow that is. Corrected your arrow for moving mobs or such. < 1315853276 715381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315853288 22349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's all sorts of fun cheats you can do. < 1315853296 578670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm personally looking forward to writing a //quarry. < 1315853299 542171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the one I mentioned would be rather hard to write though < 1315853304 319217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would that one do < 1315853319 274164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dig a quarry for you at an inhuman pace. Preferably automatically handling putting things in chests, etc. < 1315853323 63956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dig out a hole? That is not cheat, that is automation. < 1315853329 806293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cheat. < 1315853333 429046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh the server doesn't limit speed of digging? < 1315853337 473492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does. < 1315853349 176828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no way a human can operate at ABSOLUTLEY optimal speed :P < 1315853353 567986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: automation: Not all of us are WorldEdit-creative-MinecraftCAD . < 1315853355 376519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :players. < 1315853356 735450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not much of a cheat. < 1315853362 7389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is totally a cheat. < 1315853373 369515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get tons of resources by sitting back and doing nothing with Minecraft minimised < 1315853376 270781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aim assist is totally a more cheaty cheat < 1315853393 108053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have aim assist when mcmap could just automatically find, target, and shoot at every enemy in range? It doesn't even have to send that to the client. < 1315853400 220374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just see arrows sprouting out of you and killing every enemy in sight. < 1315853401 648245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1315853410 506927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be kind of cool. < 1315853459 563459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how about THIS for a hack: You type a command, and it jumps off the nearest cliff. < 1315853465 824373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE WITH MCMAP/GUILE < 1315853467 470715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw I tried out that water shader mod. Kind of cool, but quite buggy for me. Like random terrain around me flickering and so on. < 1315853482 616628 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315853498 615044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you enable flying on your server? I don't remember < 1315853505 136256 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1315853511 78839 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315853512 736482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1315853515 701719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315853520 982501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the setting of the fly thing is irrelevant to whether fly hacks are approved of. < 1315853525 333621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It triggers for fences and shit sometimes.) < 1315853529 784198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it's meant to be "legit". < 1315853554 99845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even like people using mcmap to scout out ore really, though it's not something I'd ban. Personally I've found that precision mining is incredibly boring. < 1315853622 247337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (It triggers for fences and shit sometimes.) <-- yes, and going down a ladder while removing the backing stone blocks < 1315853631 527981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that happen once < 1315853637 545038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue how, couldn't reproduce it < 1315853659 705925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I found that mining in general is quite boring. < 1315853667 352450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but oh well. < 1315853671 337158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap is more fun than Minecraft. < 1315853671 741534 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a fascinating article and trying to apply what i saw there.. so what if anything is wrong with this? λx.λy.x+y < 1315853682 487735 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to write a mod called 'extractor' < 1315853694 967933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: making a mine might be fun. As in, with lifts and winches and so on. So it looks like a real mine < 1315853732 517606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we need dfmap. < 1315853735 832288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, that's DF. < 1315853737 474139 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally it was a chest that was digging a shaft to the bedrock collecting ores < 1315853744 620279 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :λm.λx.λc.m * x + c < 1315853748 197484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I thought you hated Minecraft. < 1315853754 436830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been in a mine once. A high tech one. Mostly a wide road going down inside a mountain. And lots of advanced machines. As far as I understood, that mine operates mostly automatically, AI-controlled trucks, using position markers on the walls and what not. < 1315853755 96168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You gonna tell itidus20 that LC has no built-in arithmetic? < 1315853767 524654 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315853768 156440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought you meant in Minecraft X-D < 1315853769 147360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clearly we need dfmap. <-- stonesense < 1315853769 811276 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope. < 1315853774 918263 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this chest would spawn other chests that did the same but horizontally < 1315853775 602970 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks gregor :D < 1315853776 895700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, dfmap is DF itself. :p < 1315853780 851742 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :on different levels < 1315853782 512482 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wipes brow.
< 1315853786 787982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stonesense is more like the game that DF is the mapper for. < 1315853800 217090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm? Yes I meant building a mine replica in minecraft. Not a minecraft style mine, but do it creative to look like a real mine < 1315853804 838231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm suggesting < 1315853820 836825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1315853821 2337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have been in a mine once. A high tech one. Mostly a wide road going down inside a mountain. And lots of advanced machines. As far as I understood, that mine operates mostly automatically, AI-controlled trucks, using position markers on the walls and what not. < 1315853822 892819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I thought you meant in Minecraft X-D < 1315853829 589222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first time i read it < 1315853832 62593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315853833 39166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315853833 199062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like what, without any mods? < 1315853839 133731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be some piston/minecart setup. < 1315853845 576963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. I don't think LKAB used any mods XD < 1315853853 907232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a guided tour. < 1315853864 495552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some no-longer-active parts of the mine < 1315853865 596085 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :guided tours are for wusses < 1315853881 748789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they wouldn't let people run around freely in an operating mine < 1315853892 835108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let" < 1315853897 213534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315853901 200936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only applies if you ask permission :P < 1315853903 350376 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one asked them < 1315853904 170890 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315853927 637129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw they had a kind of paternoster like thingy for moving up the iron ore to the surface. < 1315853973 275990 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get to see any redstone < 1315853977 56799 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh heres the justification in next section "Prede�ned constants, which act as values and operations are allowed in an impure or applied lambda calculus." < 1315853986 734895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uh. < 1315853989 336211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P < 1315854005 515770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fyi, it was magnetite ore. They didn't find a sedimentary layer I guess. < 1315854034 615913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: XD < 1315854034 776132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you kill any elves. < 1315854060 273444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't get the chance, it was summer, not sprint < 1315854061 964255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spring* < 1315854107 875571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as if Vorpal would kill elves. < 1315854129 926970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he has a self-loathing streak. < 1315854138 50031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and, they transport the ore on some huge trains, iirc about 1 km in length. With two or four huge locomotives pulling. < 1315854147 518407 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1315854195 474096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IORE_beim_Tornetr%C3%A4sk.jpg <-- there is one, saw that from my hotel window when I was up there, it was right next to the railway. < 1315854196 948351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never been in a paternoster i should try it < 1315854199 200790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds cool < 1315854210 680610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit shorter than what I saw < 1315854212 327218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go to that university that has one. < 1315854222 892219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1km trains cooooooooooooooooooooooool < 1315854225 435763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thx < 1315854243 788696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one was for ore, it had like huge buckets, not somewhere you could stand it < 1315854245 461574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in* < 1315854264 366052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Sheffield! < 1315854282 219257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leinster! < 1315854289 628637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also nice landscapey thinsg in that picture < 1315854295 694257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By which I mean Leicester.) < 1315854301 455502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have been to Sheffield it is a place ofbadness and steel... orw a sit coal... < 1315854304 343085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Just goes to show, the Beatles are more interesting than green vegetables. < 1315854306 408183 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :655) Just goes to show, the Beatles are more interesting than green vegetables. < 1315854314 196881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes certainly. It is up in north Sweden. Far between inhabited areas there. < 1315854364 898044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hours between each road crossing with the railway. Just forest and myrmark (not sure what that is, not quite "bog" but something similar I think) < 1315854370 371638 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok in my next few posts which follow, i ask to allow for: impure or applied lambda calculus < 1315854384 307641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is exactly bog it seems < 1315854386 598740 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've just translated a predecessor function into a BCKISW tree < 1315854390 731162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so theoretically a good place to plan the demise of civilisation? < 1315854398 959955 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have the + operator.. "just because".. because im playing magic < 1315854399 436829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh? < 1315854406 181648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking < 1315854433 925710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh btw, in some areas up there, the water is still pure enough that you can drink fresh water out of rivers without purifying it first. Though that probably won't be so for long. < 1315854446 958698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with all pollution. < 1315854465 745917 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. given, λx.λy.x+y .. is this.. λx.(λy.(x+y))? < 1315854478 569224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well yes. < 1315854481 197706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok that's good so if i destroyed the water supply i could still drink < 1315854486 310794 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know it kills you :P < 1315854488 679660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315854493 784163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you planning!? < 1315854515 197231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1315854528 703325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, it is cool, so different from the more densely inhabited south Sweden. Which of course would be counted as sparse by English measures. < 1315854579 150303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also it is mostly birches up there. Few other trees can survive. < 1315854582 474099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in england we just took about ten countries and miniaturised them < 1315854601 156449 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compacted < 1315854605 950430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/IORE_beim_Tornetr%C3%A4sk.jpg is pretty I will have to find the gprs coordinates so I can walk there from here < 1315854612 823134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just start swimmin' when I get to water < 1315854616 447824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the minecraft f-three way to travel < 1315854624 509781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /tppos < 1315854633 605492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that lake thing frozen or not, i can't tell < 1315854646 577278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it even has the coordinates there < 1315854657 907972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it seems to be winter. I would assume it was frozen < 1315854670 885238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was up there in early summer, June or so. < 1315854689 411426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&geocode=&sll=68.269125,19.376158&sspn=0.017033,0.058107&vpsrc=0&g=68.269125,19.376158&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=4 < 1315854692 557212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey only fifteen days walking < 1315854696 196570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my sweet jesus < 1315854697 181723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal < 1315854699 27754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that route < 1315854702 939627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes from hexham to the netherlands < 1315854704 258067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE UK < 1315854705 574816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to denmark < 1315854713 479766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a fucking loop de loop < 1315854721 423679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES IT GO TO LATVIA < 1315854732 535308 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is the thing i found: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~slonnegr/plf/Book/Chapter5.pdf < 1315854733 285258 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the 200km walk back and forth < 1315854743 232502 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the visit to Latvia < 1315854747 751385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which point is that < 1315854748 241633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't want to go up there in late June or the rest of the summer. All those bogs. You get too many mosquitoes up there then. < 1315854750 110887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the non-ferry part < 1315854753 507758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315854754 4534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1315854767 25435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice route too < 1315854768 33397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this is the best route < 1315854769 328538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing this < 1315854771 637050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya suckas < 1315854800 282382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway that is further north than what I went. If you look on your route you will spot "Kiruna", that is how far I went < 1315854815 361207 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the visit to latvia < 1315854818 902228 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think Hexham has a disproportionately large amount of esoteric programming enthusiasts < 1315854820 877805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I actually went out sideways from Kiruna too < 1315854836 810971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: elliott is from there, who else? < 1315854840 235920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb < 1315854844 848822 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me < 1315854845 671345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's my european trip practically fucking planned out already < 1315854862 509276 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as far as I am aware, we've NEVER MET < 1315854865 146803 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were planning to walk 100km in the near future, but i guess we could extend it abit < 1315854867 46258 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a bit < 1315854878 919485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to 2,948 miles say < 1315854883 588014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I went here too: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=67.851697,19.019244&spn=0.004846,0.027058&sll=67.851697,19.019244&sspn=0.004846,0.027058&vpsrc=0&dirflg=w&t=h&z=16 < 1315854894 208866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: we have to make sure we never ever meet < 1315854898 748052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in norway this year there are warnings against drinking river water because of all the lemmings < 1315854899 890662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1315854900 874343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that counts as a village btw. Like 4 hours or so. < 1315854901 35175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would violate the specialness < 1315854907 468678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really? XD < 1315854924 34938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, greatest lemming infestation for decades < 1315854927 916509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's the shittiest village i've ever seen < 1315854932 262562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And as far as I am aware, we've NEVER MET <-- how large is Hexham? < 1315854939 130704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? < 1315854942 488110 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12000ish people < 1315854942 647954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pop. twelve thousand or so < 1315854946 828877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315854947 272067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315854949 431109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not twelve thousand < 1315854950 967082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Taneb said < 1315854955 773934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's small < 1315854961 902404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is twelve thousand < 1315854965 898553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway that village is like how close you can get by car to Sweden's highest mountain < 1315854967 44850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh isi t < 1315854967 871615 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we said were equivalent < 1315854973 304974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not so smart with the numbers < 1315854978 600451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who needs cars when you can walk to latvia < 1315854993 666378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315855011 999262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mehamn looks like cool palce < 1315855021 266123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it swim or ferry? < 1315855025 794263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferry < 1315855027 441329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehamn < 1315855030 591232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that fucking location mark < 1315855053 755020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :size: 709 < 1315855054 409408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315855063 772955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing at the very tip :( < 1315855073 104538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway Longyearbyen is more remote I would say < 1315855079 998831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure which one is furthest north < 1315855081 146913 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Vorpal: who needs cars when you can walk to latvia < 1315855083 294344 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :656) Vorpal: who needs cars when you can walk to latvia < 1315855092 179402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh i wanna visit svalbard sometime < 1315855098 659412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really count as part of norway or anything though :P < 1315855113 191770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has a rather unique status, that is true < 1315855144 653052 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used svalbard to test a weatherbot the other day < 1315855156 177141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sll=67.851697,19.019244&sspn=0.004846,0.027058&vpsrc=6&dirflg=w&t=h&ie=UTF8&ll=73.677264,59.677734&spn=6.659198,29.750977&z=5 wow what the fuck is this thing < 1315855165 448326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my attitude to geography is like icp's to magnets < 1315855165 722784 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was looking on googlemaps for a place < 1315855165 883182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: did it work? < 1315855174 258779 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1315855180 216154 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my weatherbot tho but someones < 1315855185 972396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously what is that thing < 1315855190 579609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and that is Nova Zemblya (no clue about spelling) < 1315855199 767174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: used for nuclear testing by Soviet < 1315855208 101046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it actually that huge or is that the broken map projection google maps use < 1315855209 4264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1315855212 599467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Tsar Bomba was detonated there. < 1315855224 844453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nova Zembla Island ("New Land") is an uninhabited island in the Qikiqtaaluk Region of Nunavut, Canada. It is located in Baffin Bay off the northeastern coast of Baffin Island. Round Island is 7.4 km (4.6 mi) to the southeast.[1] < 1315855226 339633 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowa Ziemia < 1315855229 473302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exciting < 1315855230 463647 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(New Land) < 1315855232 70287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Round Island is an uninhabited island in the Qikiqtaaluk Region of Nunavut, Canada. It is located in Baffin Bay off the northeastern coast of Baffin Island. Nova Zembla Island is 7.4 km (4.6 mi) to the northwest.[1] < 1315855237 635532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll visit there < 1315855241 99274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be fun, right? < 1315855246 13805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Sirmilik_Glacier_2_1997-08-06.jpg < 1315855248 361566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's cool < 1315855250 88563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doubtful. Radiation hazard < 1315855252 598352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go there after Latvia < 1315855256 14257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehamn <-- i recall mehamn from the weather forecasts during whatever summer it was when the whole of norway had a heatwave - except mehamn, which stayed stable at 9 celsius. < 1315855261 96151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh, I can deal < 1315855261 618385 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :in russian: Nowya Zee-em-lya < 1315855268 18276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 9 seems a bit high for that place :P < 1315855274 115883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmilik_National_Park < 1315855275 767757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dudes, let's go here < 1315855284 654596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no radiation to my knowledge!!! < 1315855294 189690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315855305 366385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good location for a meetup, nobody will _ever_ find Vorpal's body < 1315855337 254961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Zembla_Island <-- err, wtf, a stub? < 1315855358 681853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait different one < 1315855365 722881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a different one? < 1315855369 693481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba < 1315855375 341678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1315855376 329030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaya_Zemlya < 1315855377 478788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1315855382 583677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll visit the other one too though < 1315855387 692396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: confusingly similar names < 1315855392 297402 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowa_Ziemia < 1315855400 59439 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: will you visit me on your trip, that goes through turku < 1315855413 688952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmmhmm yeah ok, but you have to promise to join in on the rest of the trip < 1315855418 543254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yeah it _is_ right next to the arctic ocean < 1315855420 988431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll basically thread through the countries picking up esolangers < 1315855425 750053 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855426 570607 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855426 570834 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855426 733315 :variable!~thing@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855426 893564 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855427 54243 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855427 54319 :Zwaarddi1k!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855427 221468 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315855431 431621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll all have adventures < 1315855432 827547 :aspect!~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855438 5647 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855441 251201 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855441 411253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think i am being wacky but that would actually be a perfect life. < 1315855444 131111 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855444 291250 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i took a bus from where the route makes a sharp turn left < 1315855448 649904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you think i am being wacky but that would actually be a perfect life. < 1315855451 907395 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kslkvfaozxnwtdzh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315855453 345875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid netsplits < 1315855463 984222 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855463 984369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how fucked satellite greenland is on google maps < 1315855465 723390 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855471 891768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some white with harsh square corners where they pasted over the aliens < 1315855488 733286 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you walk here, i will certainly join you for the rest of the trip < 1315855496 418302 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there would be no limits to the awesomeness < 1315855499 227606 :variable!~thing@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855509 77746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much it costs to like < 1315855515 953323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :manage to get to one of those fucking nowhere islands < 1315855528 411230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you need to like hire your own plane and get clearance and shit < 1315855532 196867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO COMPLICTAED OMG < 1315855536 39180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't the world be like minecraft < 1315855546 650680 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With zombies and creepers? < 1315855557 19925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on peaceful. < 1315855562 376590 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1315855565 791623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess those would be fun too < 1315855567 989216 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it is < 1315855569 843255 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps on creative too < 1315855587 602585 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : stupid netsplits <-- i assume this was connected to christel's global notices < 1315855589 742108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there is some part of my sleep-deprived brain that is seriously considering going on wacky sweden adventures with as many esolangers as i can pick up < 1315855594 185516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will let you know when sanity sets back in < 1315855599 263129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will you join < 1315855604 757730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll walk to trondheim specially < 1315855614 443020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315855615 830733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will you punch Vorpal. < 1315855619 796291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just do it without letting you know I'm actually really going to do it < 1315855623 258263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have often indicated your desire to do this. < 1315855623 418042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll be too shocked to say no < 1315855635 45371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know, are there laws against that in Sweden? Vorpal? < 1315855637 516359 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no one cares what asia looks like" --- google < 1315855664 870174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, we all know that Asia looks the same however you display it. < 1315855668 322535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1315855673 431244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: will you invoke them? < 1315855676 972574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just be a mild punch < 1315855683 518757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I certainly would. < 1315855690 522229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, baby. < 1315855694 159963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'll get oklopol to punch Vorpal < 1315855695 61466 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could punch Vorpal as hard as you wanted to < 1315855702 634123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/View_from_B%C3%A1rr%C3%A1s.jpg < 1315855708 850469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, we're going there < 1315855710 496434 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he'd ba all like < 1315855712 966990 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1315855718 72279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where is that? < 1315855721 388946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnmark < 1315855723 535920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway < 1315855724 41533 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought mosquito season was long gone lolololol < 1315855725 566146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in sweden you can be arrested for punching someone even if they give you permission, if they change their mind later. < 1315855727 384838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can my life just be hdr nature photography forever < 1315855732 550596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait will you go and get Taneb before me? < 1315855739 778483 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315855739 968698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I and Taneb can never meet. < 1315855743 610959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get you though sure, < 1315855747 406984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah. < 1315855751 856914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh? < 1315855754 491899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so will you come along for the ride < 1315855764 876321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for the truth is....... you are the same person. < 1315855769 107903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so why are there still martial arts clubs? < 1315855770 60857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah true < 1315855780 260581 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't know it < 1315855782 720874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is this some kind of subtle commentary on Assange? < 1315855798 641736 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess you're suspecting it already < 1315855800 986026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was wondering about that, but eh, quite different situation. < 1315855815 715922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you got me :P < 1315855816 21719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey ask oerjan whether he's coming along or not he's not answering me. < 1315855817 256781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, punching is technically a form of rape. < 1315855818 901871 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in sweden you can be arrested for publicly reprimanding your own, misbehaving child < 1315855837 182768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pretty sure that is not the case. < 1315855853 91631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that is true. < 1315855862 663501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was with physical attack < 1315855863 504056 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you punch someone and they orgasm, is that rape < 1315855874 931296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, but my feet are incapable of walking much longer than to the shop < 1315855876 223791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :level of discourse is high tonight < 1315855885 554481 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis penis penis < 1315855887 364634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's also a form of rape. < 1315855903 937198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: doing it verbally would be legal. Giving the child a hard slap would not. < 1315855910 919355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: I and Taneb can never meet. <-- wait, wouldn't it be ok as long as it is nowhere near hexham? < 1315855912 733705 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about soft slap? :P < 1315855913 541558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there'll be ferries < 1315855918 968537 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: MUSHROOM MUSHROOM < 1315855936 920862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I kill some badgers in DF? < 1315855937 81171 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :haxham < 1315855938 559721 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a separate root and end up in a different country < 1315855939 55316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what would the issue with them meeting each other be? < 1315855950 732839 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WOULD RUIN THE MAGIC < 1315855951 890767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes. < 1315855952 383774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh my god < 1315855954 358356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: go aroudn the world < 1315855955 845911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way < 1315855957 457368 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS everyone is required by Law™ to watch this: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Babies/ < 1315855957 734522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up < 1315855958 476989 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait I already killed all the badgers. < 1315855959 610964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same desitnation < 1315855965 46274 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: maybe a square root? < 1315855965 206150 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal ham < 1315855967 349097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the saeme time < 1315855969 821181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: y/n (Y) < 1315855973 278290 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q! < 1315855977 62255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyyyyyyyyyyy < 1315855979 356459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, fun fact: Hexham is Borders slang for hell. < 1315855979 516491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: new ones can move in from outside the map I *think*, but don't quote me on that < 1315855986 983234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make of this what you will. < 1315855993 851752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, man you're really pro at DF. < 1315855998 800311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus have you even played it. < 1315856018 545916 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, which way around the world are you all going? < 1315856024 140966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ---> < 1315856025 646949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes. But well, I been too busy with goblins and what not to care about what the wild animals did. < 1315856031 277795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sweden or some nowhere island < 1315856032 956555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somewhere < 1315856035 227163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :*.net *.split < 1315856047 166691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, you'll basically just have to stay at the antipodeal point from the rest of us at all times. < 1315856066 927487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1315856070 941609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that was unexpected: < 1315856073 485219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :! Server Terminating. Received SIGTERM < 1315856073 866255 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To... Australian Antarctic Territory? < 1315856080 632953 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1315856090 561488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just do my antarctic tour now with you guys < 1315856092 371321 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you guys doing? playing Google Earth? < 1315856094 960294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean we're close enough < 1315856097 927109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: planning our trip < 1315856112 961750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Phantom_Hoover: oklopol: up for an antarctic trip? < 1315856121 266711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1315856125 555760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda cold < 1315856126 700982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know < 1315856128 973150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as someone else is paying. < 1315856130 296460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's penguins < 1315856131 970220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not Arctic? < 1315856132 130866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can be friends with < 1315856138 524086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well oklopol has lots of money right? < 1315856138 691489 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1315856142 75145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you'll pay right < 1315856143 578358 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i'm rich < 1315856144 574128 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315856145 734320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1315856145 894178 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1315856149 157567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm well < 1315856155 380785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can fly over the arctic to get to antarctica < 1315856156 37807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1315856158 847108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spheres work like that < 1315856159 329505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315856161 518278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : nooga: doing it verbally would be legal. Giving the child a hard slap would not. <-- same as in norway then i take. in fact i think they just made the law here stricter. (because the courts had decided they allowed light slaps or something.) < 1315856166 612563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously arctic is boring < 1315856167 405033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real land < 1315856169 928233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bunch of glaciers < 1315856175 532083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :antarctica's big fuckin' heap o' ice < 1315856183 939760 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could go to Phillip Island! < 1315856190 843573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no but seriously would you pay for this shit < 1315856193 4573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315856195 127491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be more than like ten thousand < 1315856197 762372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moneys < 1315856202 209170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with that ais523 got terrified < 1315856202 705070 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the advantage of being warmer than Antarctica < 1315856206 19343 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :be sure to visit Poznań < 1315856208 818077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but what about Finnland^Wwhatever. < 1315856210 797097 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With cuter penguins < 1315856212 937484 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the amount of moneys i guess < 1315856250 121020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I walk to Birmingham, will you join us on our tour of the world? < 1315856266 913470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, me, and oklopol are going to go to a bunch of cool places < 1315856278 742719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably not, I hate travel < 1315856286 30489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok but wait < 1315856289 554860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&geocode=&sll=68.269125,19.376158&sspn=0.017033,0.058107&vpsrc=0&g=68.269125,19.376158&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=4 < 1315856292 88435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at this route < 1315856293 406230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OK, we can go to Manchester. < 1315856293 778202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they need to do google street view in more places. Like off road. < 1315856295 714872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me this route isn't geographic perfection < 1315856300 574756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a fucking loop-de-loop < 1315856301 524360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :every few meters, over all the world < 1315856304 127434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value-add trip to latvia < 1315856310 930311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best walk ever < 1315856328 508145 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i remember a story told by our media that norwegian social care took people's children because someone stated that he seen the parents dringing beer while their kids were at home < 1315856339 347303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I love how it skirts over to Finland for a bit just because it's slightly less bendy than Sweden < 1315856343 337216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait I need to know. < 1315856357 17165 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who will we eat first if it goes wrong? < 1315856361 679369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you. < 1315856365 574876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use caution – This route may be missing sidewalks or pedestrian paths." < 1315856366 973247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: sounds implausible... < 1315856370 784156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1315856377 423290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that location is just the location of um < 1315856379 236829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the pic < 1315856379 875263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: link pic < 1315856384 998130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but oko's bigger! < 1315856387 830378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to what? < 1315856392 456027 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had several stories like that, Vorpal < 1315856395 80180 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i met this woman who's kids were taken because she had been a problem child herself. she then wrote a book on this and got an official apology < 1315856397 218453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/IORE_beim_Tornetr%C3%A4sk.jpg sorry ais523 for not having info link < 1315856401 391205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IORE_beim_Tornetr%C3%A4sk.jpg < 1315856401 823275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1315856402 776122 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whose < 1315856405 107573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :recommending 2.5 miles down an A road looks wrong < 1315856407 832291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315856408 179741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where we're going, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IORE_beim_Tornetr%C3%A4sk.jpg < 1315856409 168273 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also dude why didn't you include Edinburgh in the route. < 1315856411 639972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a walking route < 1315856417 696065 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norway < 1315856418 196938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um excuse me that is just the base route < 1315856425 924453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they move really slowly those trains. Like 30 km/h or so iirc < 1315856432 736953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots and lots of power though < 1315856454 807083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&geocode=&sll=68.269125,19.376158&sspn=0.017033,0.058107&vpsrc=0&g=68.269125,19.376158&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=4 < 1315856457 580991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that route makes absolutely no sense < 1315856458 521918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG best route. < 1315856462 556695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so i figure after we reach that sweden destination we'll just like go down to helsinki, then kinda play it by ear? < 1315856466 233091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we're still following it < 1315856471 382339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where it crosses the channel six times. < 1315856474 197098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: could visit iceland next maybe? < 1315856479 59353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, look at the size of the door on that locomotive. That thing is huge < 1315856482 500347 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh iceland < 1315856485 790211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes i linked it < 1315856486 822641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1315856487 701114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the best < 1315856490 505195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or um < 1315856493 221296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you seeing a different one < 1315856495 185396 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear there's a lot of crazy going on up there < 1315856496 512572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need to click the link icon < 1315856498 151641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the top-right < 1315856500 950788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the link < 1315856503 148044 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B66D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315856509 531104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't go to iceland. You will get stuck there while waiting for the ash to clear. < 1315856516 990266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions in Sweden will be basically impossible to follow < 1315856518 710263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sorry, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from:+hexham+to:+edinburgh+to:+68.269125,19.376158&saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&ll=48.224673,1.318359&spn=31.503035,57.65625&sll=53.917281,-1.801758&sspn=6.951905,14.414062&geocode=FWjHRgMdAf3f_ykVmDENYpB9SDEEwA0heCs6qA%3BFWC7VQMdsFzP_ykjJpilALiHSDEnF-d8exTyZA%3BFUW0EQQdHqgnAQ&vpsrc=6&dirflg=w&t=m&z=4 < 1315856519 687264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: capitalist propaganda < 1315856529 942440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just a bunch of "turn left, turn right" with distances but no road names < 1315856534 900581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ahahahahahaha < 1315856538 940989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: look at that one Phantom_Hoover linked < 1315856540 112617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : the instructions in Sweden will be basically impossible to follow <-- how so? I didn't see any issue < 1315856541 604413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will not regret the decision < 1315856554 47091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1315856556 489821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look at 450, etc < 1315856564 421339 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop posting maps.google.com links containing the string "deew" < 1315856574 585554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: X-D < 1315856579 986685 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the second time in 18 hours < 1315856585 120595 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: why? this applies to you too < 1315856586 122091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the norwegian child protection services are well-known for interfering too much in people's private lives and for not having enough resources to help all the children who need it. er, wait... < 1315856586 595026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It looks like the map thing tried to draw a star. < 1315856588 570852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it failed. < 1315856592 244564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah wanna come on our trip? < 1315856592 407019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's not even capitalised properly < 1315856614 499661 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't trust people to capitalize properly if they want to highlight me < 1315856616 484314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway I'm not sure those road have numbers < 1315856623 690235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they look too small < 1315856628 303481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh my god you can just draw your own path and it mangles it < 1315856636 425787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we could just walk alnogside it with a gps thing no? < 1315856650 962288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: roads like that in the UK normally at least have signposts < 1315856651 343704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe. But do you realise the distances in Sweden? < 1315856666 60427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, so we'll need some food and shit < 1315856669 509652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping bags too i get < 1315856671 341817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving the distance in miles to various nearby insignificant villages < 1315856674 611805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, if they are in urban areas. < 1315856681 932187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not out in the wilderness < 1315856685 818247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 days, 17 hours. < 1315856695 244590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good way to spend a fortnight. < 1315856697 638261 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trip?? < 1315856703 999586 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing :O < 1315856705 34916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway for 450, the sat image resolution is too low to be sure < 1315856719 412919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oklopol: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:helsinki+to:Kiruna,+Sweden&geocode=FWjHRgMdAf3f_ykVmDENYpB9SDEEwA0heCs6qA%3BFWC7VQMdsFzP_ykjJpilALiHSDEnF-d8exTyZA%3B%3B&sll=67.554754,18.797607&sspn=2.773689,11.634521&vpsrc=0&hl=en&dirflg=w&mra=ls&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=4 < 1315856719 579490 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can take two weeks off like that < 1315856719 740412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: out in the wilderness, too < 1315856722 902706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not trying to be helpful here < 1315856727 22511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the things they point to are so insignificant < 1315856728 125811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ~16 days sounds unrealistic < 1315856734 702594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, ferries, okay maybe not < 1315856738 797644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1315856739 788810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's nothing else to point to < 1315856742 135813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oklopol: zoom in on the finland bit < 1315856742 791470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just < 1315856745 858522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even explain what it does < 1315856765 594959 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:Helsinki,+Finland+to:68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&ll=59.800634,10.634766&spn=31.091097,70.136719&sll=59.800634,10.195313&sspn=31.091097,70.136719 < 1315856779 661579 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just walk along that path < 1315856781 204243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is the issue with that bit? < 1315856786 332597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it loops in on itself < 1315856794 543425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fuck that bullshit < 1315856796 985265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that one seems sane < 1315856799 317577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wehre's my fucking latvia tour < 1315856804 91744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my fucking loop de loop < 1315856806 395315 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315856809 129705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh the ferries you mean? < 1315856812 644586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not strange < 1315856816 287405 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:Helsinki,+Finland+to:68.269125,19.376158&hl=en&ll=59.800634,10.634766&spn=31.091097,70.136719&sll=59.800634,10.195313&sspn=31.091097,70.136719 < 1315856818 91327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ...we might want to do a slightly saner route though :P < 1315856820 129136 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to come too < 1315856837 231042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeah ok < 1315856845 314767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:Riga,+Latvia+to:Helsinki,+Finland+to:68.269125,19.376158&geocode=FWjHRgMdAf3f_ykVmDENYpB9SDEEwA0heCs6qA%3BFWC7VQMdsFzP_ykjJpilALiHSDEnF-d8exTyZA%3B%3BFVQelgMdAId8ASmRBiGWxwuSRjFj9-I7hL1OzQ%3BFUW0EQQdHqgnAQ&sll=59.592995,11.21014&sspn=29.97045,93.076172&vpsrc=0&hl=en&mra=ls&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=4 < 1315856847 781688 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mine was giving driving directions, not the beta walking directions < 1315856849 380573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w ecould add a loop-de-loop to this i guess < 1315856851 631132 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's just 2 weeks, i'm in no problem < 1315856853 886186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah < 1315856860 832679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lot are all mad < 1315856870 824479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1315856873 204016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah but YOU'RE not going to have any of the fun < 1315856877 721606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about accommodation? < 1315856884 34986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: probably included highways with no walking access < 1315856892 992708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, not that hard; for the long trip up sweden we can just sleep in the wilderness < 1315856899 16808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1315856905 249851 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could even fly to hexham but i guess that'd defeat the purpose < 1315856907 310154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no way to walk along E4 for example < 1315856911 533702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in /Sweden/? in /September/? < 1315856917 705806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who said september < 1315856918 35316 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can walk pretty close to those typically < 1315856925 290173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, this is planned for the future? < 1315856928 914267 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not on the road itself < 1315856930 398154 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1315856940 804548 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was thinking tomorrow < 1315856942 469544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hm. Not on E20 near where I live. More like several km away < 1315856945 897280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, i'm cool whenever < 1315856948 894044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course not September, we'd have to do it over Christmas. < 1315856960 485592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if you wanted to walk in a ditch, yes then you could < 1315856962 79381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, especially as several people are likely to have work/school < 1315856972 333838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know walking near a motorway is nearly always a really bad idea in the UK < 1315856976 114275 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to run a marathon on new year's eve so have to be back by then < 1315856978 420180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you'll have problems at every junction < 1315856990 75646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you take two weeks off for this fun trip < 1315856992 872069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol can < 1315856994 192339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you? < 1315856998 475137 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What prevents one from walking nearer < 1315857001 235283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WHO KNOWS < 1315857002 228694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway it might be possible in south Sweden in early September < 1315857003 835711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a fun TV series where someone tried to walk between two points in as straight a line as possible < 1315857008 646506 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you planning on hiking through sweden? < 1315857010 793625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think you're taking this seriously enough < 1315857011 319763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fields. < 1315857019 397104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it is just fields. Not easy to walk on < 1315857020 83530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not hiking, just... walking < 1315857022 717625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which involved doing things like getting permission to walk through military bases and getting boats across lakes < 1315857024 832994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, possible, but not a good idea < 1315857031 977079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: latvia too < 1315857033 507853 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, possible :-P < 1315857034 462957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because google maps said so < 1315857039 463608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also denmark at one point < 1315857044 577297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one turku bit < 1315857048 34003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be great < 1315857048 194300 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, latvia and sweden are not exactly adjacent < 1315857050 235839 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can take two weeks off for a camping trip in country that speaks a language I don't with people I've never met < 1315857054 41111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: where do you live? < 1315857058 89460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in sweden < 1315857060 884742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this is our base route: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=hexham&daddr=edinburgh+to:Riga,+Latvia+to:Helsinki,+Finland+to:68.269125,19.376158&geocode=FWjHRgMdAf3f_ykVmDENYpB9SDEEwA0heCs6qA%3BFWC7VQMdsFzP_ykjJpilALiHSDEnF-d8exTyZA%3BFWjvZAMdks9vASntPQflsM_uRjEw_vJozc8ABA%3BFVQelgMdAId8ASmRBiGWxwuSRjFj9-I7hL1OzQ%3BFUW0EQQdHqgnAQ&sll=59.592995,11.21014&sspn=29.97045,93.076172&vpsrc=6&hl=en&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&ie=UTF8&ll=59.888937, < 1315857061 56172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12.041016&spn=29.706005,93.076172&t=m&z=4 < 1315857063 144762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but where ins weden < 1315857066 792960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh merge that url yourself < 1315857069 117718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no but it did the ferry loop thingy < 1315857070 340780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like can we pick you up to join in < 1315857076 684800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I get the feeling you are also subserious < 1315857081 636131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ok, we will just adventure without you < 1315857090 87985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw shape up that Phantom_Hoover into taking this seriously, i'm not just gonna do a two-person trip < 1315857102 859351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eh that is even more fucked up than before < 1315857109 874081 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you're walking most of it alone :D < 1315857111 24963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, it doesn't like Edinburgh. < 1315857113 858641 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm completely serious < 1315857116 498552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why Latvia. < 1315857116 995677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /hope/ you aren't serious < 1315857121 992429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Google Maps wanted us to. < 1315857142 285854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doubtful, but he is pretending to be. You won't get him to admit anything else for now. < 1315857143 729766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're laughing now, but who will be laughing when you hear "band of teenagers and also irresponsible adult found dead in swedish wilderness"? < 1315857160 30068 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315857163 664206 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*found*? < 1315857164 293516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which adult? < 1315857168 787073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no no i really am perfectly sincere. well maybe the sweden trek will have to be amended to include acommodation places < 1315857173 414029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, trying to dissuade you from this would reduce the change of that ending < 1315857174 259582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah would be tricky < 1315857174 729737 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't me and Taneb rougly the same age < 1315857176 389444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really like the idea of just lying down and sleeping < 1315857184 116096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, trip, sounds great < 1315857184 507079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be way out of the way on that trip < 1315857194 480743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh, more funtime < 1315857197 120838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1315857205 92125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can believe "... lost in swedish wilderness" :) < 1315857206 43420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not that I will give you my coords < 1315857208 74049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Taneb's sixteen i think < 1315857212 395066 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1315857215 794616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, found is unlikely < 1315857224 453900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw I think that you can call emergency services even in Swedish wilderness < 1315857225 58395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1315857226 759124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed "data Succ" to "newtype Succ" since it is a single field < 1315857229 211719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming they have phone signal < 1315857229 401181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ever been in Norrland btw? < 1315857229 874121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they < 1315857230 863390 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway i've done a lot of walking in the wilderness, it's not that dangerous < 1315857234 807844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1315857235 50478 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's norrland < 1315857235 703786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a single constructor < 1315857236 262020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ^ < 1315857238 535631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not oklopol < 1315857242 654394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mistab, sorry < 1315857258 575070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway it is a region in Sweden < 1315857263 480036 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've certainly been to norrland < 1315857268 584244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've done a bit, but even the wilderness in England is pretty tame < 1315857277 20621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Taneb: btw failure to misrepresent your correct level of sincerity will result in me banging on your door with a bunch of equipment expecting you to be ready to go < 1315857279 340114 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe like 5 times < 1315857283 635415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :norrland is right next to finland, so that should be familiar to oklopol < 1315857283 950678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider this carefully < 1315857285 831178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes OK. < 1315857289 505052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well yes. UK is basically one huge urban area as far as I can tell < 1315857293 175113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1315857296 911852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they don't believe me, ha ha < 1315857304 886269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but seriously i think we're all neglecting a vital elements of this trip < 1315857310 34417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't, except near large cities < 1315857311 514729 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't do that, we'd meet if you do that < 1315857319 640600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brugge, Den Haag, and Esbjerg < 1315857323 552290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Kiel and Lübeck < 1315857327 207945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these not the height of the trip < 1315857330 680297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: worth ti < 1315857333 888924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1315857338 498843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :England, at least, is mostly farmland (so is Wales but it's a different sort of farmland; Scotland is mostly mountains, but people generally live in the other parts of Scotland) < 1315857353 79552 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you want to ruin a perfect strangership < 1315857355 565401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it looks urban from a Swedish perspective. You won't be able to go for hours on a train in UK without seeing anything but forest and bogs. Unless you go in a circle. < 1315857361 80393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm well you know < 1315857363 57415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trip to sweden < 1315857376 81857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i don't care massively about the actual end destination, i just wanna go somewhere upwards swedenwise < 1315857380 194981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's partly because the train lines deliberately aim for cities < 1315857386 36509 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got to get to Northern Sweden from Hexham via Scotland, Belgium, England, Netherlands, England, Denmark, Germany, Latvia, Sweden, Estonia and Finland together without meeting < 1315857386 196078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's where people like going on a train < 1315857387 373290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i would like to keep that loop-de-loop and the latvia part, those are the bits i have real attachments to < 1315857404 778322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes indeed, but you don't need to go for that to reach a city by the shortest path < 1315857409 61221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any path < 1315857411 67820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how nice is turku btw < 1315857416 701769 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzitfhjtwcwntfuh JOIN :#esoteric < 1315857430 740335 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the CULTURE CAPITAL of europe so...... < 1315857432 913569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but you don't get straight-line trainlines < 1315857435 594034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so crappy? < 1315857448 226280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even with non-straight you will get that in north Sweden < 1315857453 316256 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that crappy < 1315857456 327977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is how sparse it is up there < 1315857457 501819 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno, i like it here < 1315857475 795514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't quite the outback, not that large. But that is what you should have in mind. Only wetter. < 1315857487 574488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outback, only wetter: description of anywhere big on earth < 1315857505 625120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really, it implies sparely populated too < 1315857509 941309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is not true for everywhere < 1315857526 389190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is forest and bogs up there. Nothing much else. < 1315857565 558163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so do you want to join, i forsee significant attrition < 1315857583 684923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt Phantom_Hoover and/or Taneb not actually wanting to go on a fun adventure with esolangers < 1315857585 2982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we kinda need < 1315857587 473407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring but reliable backup < 1315857598 264439 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am entirely serious! < 1315857615 276989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that's also what a non-serious person would say. < 1315857630 476349 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, this is worse than Mafia < 1315857645 581223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315857657 486432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1315857665 22200 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315857682 745823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rwhy not < 1315857694 840893 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They (Turku) have a sucky castle. < 1315857699 590536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: busy until 15:00 < 1315857702 896589 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it sucky < 1315857716 242078 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It doesn't even look like a castle, it's just this big thing. < 1315857729 451709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh hey, do you want to join < 1315857735 235060 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hohenschwangau_-_Schloss_Neuschwanstein1.jpg <-- see, that's a castle. < 1315857745 908474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a responsible op to keep us good < 1315857748 680787 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but museologists like it because it hasn't sold out < 1315857768 299286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My left ear is really hot for some reason. < 1315857790 431600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: trip anticipation, well known condition < 1315857793 441407 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare to this: http://zem.fi/g2/d/13817-2/20110402_023.jpg < 1315857805 909088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No surprise it hasn't sold out. < 1315857807 847575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i take it that's a no < 1315857812 61352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that sure is a nice small house < 1315857813 488544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nah, that's just kind of a big house. < 1315857821 416137 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what a castle should look like --> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Prudhoe_Castle_2.jpg < 1315857823 243185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://zem.fi/g2/d/13820-2/20110402_024-028.jpg from the side. < 1315857842 94445 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That's a has-been castle. < 1315857843 679726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, THIS is a castle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EdinburghCastle.jpg < 1315857859 273706 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's probably a "no", yes. Even though I haven't really been following. < 1315857871 470291 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I dislike that castle. Intensly. < 1315857876 734596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We're going to northern Sweden via Denmark and Latvia and Finland. < 1315857878 858063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not ruined enough < 1315857890 506653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, yes, this is because as established earlier you are stupid and bad. < 1315857894 104112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Phantom_Hoover, me, oklopol, Taneb. Well, at least two of those. < 1315857896 683817 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd show a photo of a "Helsinki Castle", but we don't even have a sucky one, like Turku. < 1315857914 690822 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit like Hexham, then < 1315857925 862013 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we have that Suomenlinna thing. < 1315857931 835811 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's officially a fortress, not a castle. < 1315857943 20556 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a church < 1315857943 190085 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though the Finnish name says "Castle of Finland" basically. < 1315857970 216024 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.suomenlinna.fi/files/5/469/Talvi_ilmakuva.jpg < 1315857975 96510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So that's a no then? < 1315857981 191383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, no. < 1315857997 931654 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2366 Oh SMBC. Why ya gotta be so true. < 1315858011 408412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: we should totally attempt to arrive independently in turku without meeting each other < 1315858018 40185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just simultaneously meet oklopol < 1315858022 744220 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's fortress in finnish? < 1315858026 933434 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: We also have a church. It looks like a missile silo, and for some strange reason it's famous for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temppeliaukion_kirkko < 1315858038 349125 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :linnoitus? < 1315858042 588205 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about a "castle-like structure"? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Kulosaari_Wihuri.jpg < 1315858059 796672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCO < 1315858065 636835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it's not worse than what they have at Turku. < 1315858067 488402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unidentified Castly Object. < 1315858088 966626 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite a bit smaller, though. < 1315858100 590258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is all irrelevant because Edinburgh Castle is so much better. < 1315858109 174589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I forget, did we ask you < 1315858135 858326 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I didn't deign to answer < 1315858139 522630 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also have that "Hotel Linna", http://www.palacekamp.fi/@Bin/6889232/Hotel%20Linna%205%20053.jpeg -- but that's even smaller. < 1315858141 186253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that offensive < 1315858154 512914 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did you notice and/or have you seen before: http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/aalto.jpg < 1315858163 527237 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the door of A339.) < 1315858165 273028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What even is that thing < 1315858177 846903 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've seen that < 1315858202 856175 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Our university logo is a randomly selected from the three alternatives A! A? A" (and randomly of three alternative colors for the punctuation) -- some people have posed the question that since A! (factorial of A) equals A" (the second derivative of A), what is A? < 1315858211 399059 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the meat of it is only in Finnish. < 1315858220 634447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315858243 437479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1315858244 259340 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-35.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1315858323 151043 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically they start with A(2010) = 3 (because there were three separate universities that were combined to form the WaveU in 2010) and A(2011) = 6 (because at the start of 2011 the former HUT was split into four schools), and from that go on to deduce that we will pretty much hit absurdly large numbers on Jan 14, 2010. < 1315858357 875209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god. < 1315858368 796123 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2010.$/2011./ < 1315858393 802198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still in the past. :p < 1315858398 336960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also s/\./\\./ < 1315858420 859709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's anchored at the end, it doesn't really need to be escaped. But the "201" part was extra. < 1315858438 19136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, still in the past, though I think the paper appeared at some point in 2010. < 1315858449 195299 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "we know in advance that A(2011) = 6" on one line. < 1315858479 849784 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-231-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315858491 767940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-44.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1315859485 570125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315859865 921275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:35:16: hoversegway! < 1315859870 382310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hoverse gway indeed. < 1315859886 370027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did I say that? < 1315859892 333351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than 20:35:16? < 1315859893 742962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two years ago or so. < 1315859934 265182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a hoverse thing to say < 1315859956 103807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is now frantically trying to deduce the correct parsing. < 1315860040 326311 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315860054 715822 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315860078 31483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: data on youtube comments being self-parodies: "thumbs up if you want to see a crap comment get lotsa thumbs up" < 1315860091 192782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1315860093 4443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a top comment? < 1315860113 275895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, no < 1315860116 946315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if I can thumbs it up < 1315860124 639967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1315860126 935394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done my bit < 1315860276 258795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:57:07: So if you live at point P on the infinite plane, and kick off the Roomba, it'll eventually come back to you. (That might be a rather long "eventually" here.) < 1315860490 588227 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mournful tune is very mournful. < 1315860509 249614 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315860509 414348 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315860509 580444 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315860510 787139 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315860525 681896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315860526 235491 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just did nothing for 1.5 houts < 1315860527 994116 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hours < 1315860540 426940 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's better than nothing < 1315860540 594618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please tell me you remembered saying mournful tune from back then. < 1315860551 162367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also is there a video of it. < 1315860553 538913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hear th e mourn. < 1315860583 224292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a99O5xKFMDw Guh, I feel so sorry for it. It's not even clever enough to make a noise. < 1315860631 575351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SET IT FREE YUOU HORIEBLE PERSONS < 1315860645 11269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :torture, < 1315860654 498352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaaay < 1315860658 506527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1315860660 178713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it bash again < 1315860660 837361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1315860662 61526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so stupid < 1315860662 771139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1315860668 570149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could not deal with one of these things < 1315860668 734731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1315860669 906894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT PACK THERE < 1315860671 723585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOO < 1315860675 586056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO ROOMBA < 1315860677 851372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo < 1315860716 522882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOwjnGPSzeg Well that's not very mournful. < 1315860807 218265 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the sad tune. < 1315860841 550066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to see if one of them youtubes has it. < 1315860920 183337 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ide po otwieracz < 1315860922 177461 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315860945 492773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :polish conspiracy revealed < 1315861029 677970 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I just find all these Roombas with problems, but not the thing it plays sometimes. < 1315861045 984247 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong terminal! < 1315861092 601184 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's a variant of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9ImgLSyio though I vaguely recall it being longer. < 1315861126 822577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [from 2009] That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2". < 1315861128 993506 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :657) [from 2009] That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2". < 1315861154 8138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :( < 1315861160 798040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I need to adopt one. Not to make it work or anything. < 1315861163 819037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to make it happy. < 1315861178 440015 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why "[from 2009]" < 1315861187 888533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Qdb is roughly chronological < 1315861217 299208 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I suggest "2009-11-26T13:35:38Z" < 1315861378 657795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No < 1315861383 732514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs provide exact precision < 1315861393 73791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run shuf bin/quotes >qs; mv qs bin/quotes < 1315861395 248712 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1315861401 740662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sprints
< 1315861415 996814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1315861416 495637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate < 1315861417 153461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1315861418 11228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1315861418 656386 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1315861419 655062 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why require a full-text search when you can just annotate it < 1315861426 627178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: aesthetics < 1315861430 792952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 81 < 1315861431 773999 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1315861434 926436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paper < 1315861436 422027 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: paper: not found < 1315861436 583230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote paper < 1315861438 302407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :657) [from 2009] That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2". < 1315861442 86484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1315861528 247976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdo wins - this time < 1315861551 706786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdo? < 1315861563 695102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, btw, oklopol proved sg changes aren't a group oops < 1315861566 23796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x . x = x < 1315861577 103546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x . x = changeset {x,x} = changeset {x} = x < 1315861580 582545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like ocd, but with the letters in the proper alphabetical order as they _should_ be" < 1315861582 516967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1315861590 970632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still going to be some sort of category < 1315861595 753664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a different one from a group < 1315861608 957936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank god, they're a category < 1315861613 151205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a difficult standard to meet < 1315861618 15944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315861621 827841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably a useful sort of category < 1315861627 987635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because more or less everything is < 1315861657 921865 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORP < 1315861704 422802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `run shuf bin/quotes >qs; mv qs bin/quotes <-- nice < 1315861731 21951 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I give that around 8.9 oerjan-points out of ten. < 1315861760 25242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1315861960 975451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that equivalent to 89% oerjan? < 1315862297 745374 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315862613 304294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315863282 432521 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1315863893 157708 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quotes < 1315863895 517915 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ egrep -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi < 1315863911 727743 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did he think shuffling /that/ was a good idea :P < 1315864062 558860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315864076 590371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides under a rock
< 1315864084 805324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hilarious < 1315864100 881503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that esolang which was invariant if you shuffled the lines? < 1315864118 694612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VHDL's a bit like that inside an architecture, except when processes or generates are involved) < 1315864124 644214 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315864125 885522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SORTED? < 1315864129 223843 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315864136 276236 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for Dr. Strangelove < 1315864136 604248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds about right < 1315864154 191103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1315864158 209010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorted! is something else < 1315864185 649996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where you define all the statements you're going to use, and then say "use the fifth statement and the third statement and the sixth statement and...", except for everything) < 1315864210 490940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, spam < 1315864299 137815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, elliott isn't here < 1315864304 392286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he'll probably want to see the content of User:QGermaineWalli < 1315864317 283995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'll delete it, then retrieve the deleted copy for him when he's here < 1315864369 923282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did I catch it all? the feed was being awkward < 1315864492 428674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so < 1315864556 812675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sortle looks promising < 1315864567 589191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315864765 352505 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1315864869 160950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something where the program was just a list of (guarded?) statements, of which it would always execute a random possible one. < 1315864903 955480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strelnokoff? < 1315864925 866397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also DMM's Whenever. < 1315865100 867011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1315865101 954310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315865215 929277 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315865548 343134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315865684 690288 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315866107 743276 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315866698 713386 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1315867085 115577 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1315868160 552918 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :brrrrrrrrrt http://www.dream-pro.info/~lavalse/LR2IR/search.cgi?mode=ranking&bmsid=83968 < 1315868550 267367 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315868675 52200 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315868725 380024 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315869772 365315 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1315869841 280279 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315870097 964243 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315871123 31960 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315871311 580180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1315871519 638289 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315871689 121003 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315871692 599445 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315871863 83716 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315871875 313009 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds