< 1315613033 60353 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315613078 56966 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone alive? < 1315613112 344271 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, we're all zombies < 1315613114 921258 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainnnssss < 1315613130 123836 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well < 1315613154 6240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of brainsss here < 1315613164 144150 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea... < 1315613167 382602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I got esolangs.org fixed, say hi to alandipert :P < 1315613167 875332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmmrgh < 1315613188 728991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alandipert: hi :) < 1315613194 126552 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315613199 495128 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :success! < 1315613257 696736 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how they've started modulating network traffic into power currents to send the.internet through power lines? < 1315613277 534808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. < 1315613336 601646 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you know how POSe during the war communicated by tapping morse-code over the pipework? < 1315613359 863140 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*POWs < 1315613369 798971 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1315613423 271844 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not combine the two and send network traffic through the central heating systems of buildings?! < 1315613473 438910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine HTTP requests would get a little noisy, if I'm imagining this correctly. < 1315613521 508121 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a frequency above 22kHz and no-one will hear... < 1315613568 9958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes I was following the analogy a bit strictly. :P < 1315613595 438955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still modulating high voltage currents seems... unecessary. < 1315613627 17545 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could still use Morse if you wanted, it would just have to be fast... < 1315613662 167164 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when using it to transmit XML. < 1315613664 604582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alandipert: i was reminded of something - is the email address in the esolangs.org whois correct? < 1315613679 738733 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not, will update < 1315613692 806322 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a valid e-mail address :-) < 1315613702 461791 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH____: ah BPL isn't as common in the US, so that's why I've never heard of it. < 1315613791 35578 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we uses smaller transformers, which act as low-pass filters on the signal. Whereas European power systems typically have a smaller number of large transformers. < 1315613811 123574 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus to fix the low-pass filtering you have to install repeaters at every transformer, which is more costly in the US. < 1315614039 537998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : what would be the opposite thing which is crammed with side effects < 1315614059 987527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language in which calculating 2+2 wrote to stdout, and stuff < 1315614091 390588 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to read the result from stdout < 1315614124 924820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1315614215 118631 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... sounds like an interesting challenge. < 1315614225 670759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have every computation as a side effect. < 1315614240 350408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language in which to calculate 2+2 you must mutate state < 1315614245 499308 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1315614246 289240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. that's the joke < 1315614260 709911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, do stack-based languages count? < 1315614261 213220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm technically that was my idea for arithmetic in my Reaper vaporlang < 1315614295 70817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no I wouldn't count a stack based lang. Nothing can return anything. < 1315614299 605226 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even by the standard of weebls-stuff, http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Babies/ is really friggin' wtf. < 1315614312 56687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not necessarily, e.g. you can think of Underload as pure < 1315614340 642289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least without S, possibly even with < 1315614380 19997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just taking a stack and returning a stack < 1315614411 663287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the idea with bugsophia was that each thread only stored a single byte and to transmit data around you'd have to use streams. < 1315614429 64601 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty side-effect-ful. < 1315614439 848434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315614454 209786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's just taking a stack and returning a stack < 1315614458 823488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everything is just taking a world and returning a world. < 1315614467 642270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haskell mind virus. < 1315614472 464324 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315614475 987286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um I was _pointing out_ a mind virus < 1315614483 355763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that considers everything pure < 1315614484 183025 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with another mind virus, yes. < 1315614488 415057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was not < 1315614507 578647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a reference to the mind virus not practice of it < 1315614526 213006 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or whatever the terms are_ < 1315614528 516168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentions the mind virus without using it < 1315614528 678575 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, perfectly acceptable in relation to what was said. < 1315614550 679353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ^ < 1315614567 734089 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind virus < 1315614605 601776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually use/mention might be at a different level than reference/practice < 1315614608 25474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programing is a mind virus. < 1315614621 964765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with use ~ reference being closest < 1315614630 683748 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is a mind virus. < 1315614651 698071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no it is not and please report for termination < 1315614662 897015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one thing I never figured out was how binary operators were to work in bugsophia < 1315614676 699898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they would occur by two threads colliding on top of the operator symbol < 1315614681 176823 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315614683 428629 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I'm not sure where the result goes. < 1315614709 246305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the nursery < 1315614716 245569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1315614720 857099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a possibility. < 1315614737 148536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could also spawn a new thread at the operator which then travel down whichever path was not originally taken. < 1315614751 367836 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or overwrite one or both of the threads ASM style. < 1315614764 828228 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, one is asm style, both is so I don't have to write rules for how that works. :P ) < 1315614832 48772 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok for anyone including sgeo who was wondering about that array thing, this is sort of the idea.. but its not a complete finished thing: http://codepad.org/AbkVLHKR < 1315614854 553174 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug enters operator, operator partially applies to bug, this bug does something with the partially applied operator such that another bug can hit it and it can apply to the bug and so on?????? < 1315614862 350634 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would this not work at all due to how bS works < 1315614890 995225 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because this page is not really a complete enoguh spec for me to get the langauge) < 1315614906 794317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this page being http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BugSophia < 1315615014 361009 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't explain what the symbols do < 1315615015 542371 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappoint < 1315615117 352109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EU Officially Seizes The Public Domain, Retroactively Extends Copyright" < 1315615125 109743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. < 1315615156 727714 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did that happen? < 1315615170 633354 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1315615172 360317 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that < 1315615195 622528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110908/15491315851/eu-officially-seizes-public-domain-retroactively-extends-copyright.shtml < 1315615197 40231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: they just did < 1315615203 399378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DH____: just now < 1315615209 563060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for good values of just now < 1315615226 863239 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this include the bible? < 1315615243 940621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the bible has been public domain for longer than twenty years. < 1315615253 547803 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah its only for 20 years? < 1315615278 577057 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'only' < 1315615279 947067 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1315615284 636522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the page is all that remains of the spec, which was never complete. < 1315615289 265082 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really it's up for reinterpretation. < 1315615292 82055 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1315615299 335873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial application is interesting though. < 1315615314 753586 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial application Always the Right Way < 1315615331 226488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily for an esolang though. < 1315615356 155917 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: It's been done in the US. < 1315615370 838272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an operator that essentially caused a bug to sit and wait on the space after it until it collided with another bug. < 1315615372 891261 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I dunno about you, but i'll just pirate stuff if it's mo longer public domain... < 1315615381 617798 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make binary operators not impossible. < 1315615422 46683 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially annoying since doing such an action is quite probably against the US constitution. < 1315615432 647900 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't do retroactive laws) < 1315615484 951114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the US constitution stopped being enforced since... well, since it was ratified. < 1315615512 238851 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still irritating. < 1315615517 799665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I haven't had any soldiers taking quarter in my home < 1315615518 241861 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given how utterly clear it is. < 1315615521 758538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that parts been done well. < 1315615524 381743 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The public domain creates problems in the marketing sector, because it makes people less needy as consumers. < 1315615529 515711 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No [...] ex post facto Law shall be passed." < 1315615556 212803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: obviously open source software has not brought down microsoft or apple. < 1315615560 263980 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicably, the Supreme Court has ruled this applies to only some ex post facto laws. < 1315615568 671368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any other large software company. < 1315615571 587660 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is calamari still around? < 1315615577 639830 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, generally?) < 1315615577 861126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alandipert: Sometimes, doesn't talk much though < 1315615591 138371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's still around, I dunno who else was active Back Then(tm) < 1315615595 5458 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: its ok my words are cooked in a marinade of sarcasm < 1315615599 516795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament denies the channel exists :P < 1315615609 829774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not in the desktop sector, but Linux is doing pretty good in the server market < 1315615617 756205 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "no" means "some". < 1315615625 298160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _really_ should try not chasing people away, you know :( < 1315615683 196510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Who? < 1315615692 193855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what? elliott would never do such a thing. < 1315615692 937334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lament, for example :P < 1315615706 632081 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he would just make them chase themselves away. < 1315615714 446591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't chase away lament, he just drifted away for like two years and then exploded and blamed it all on me one day. < 1315615721 64354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1315615724 366850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1315615725 242520 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er < 1315615728 414305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/yes/see/ < 1315615731 404021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1315615733 698472 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey you there. Why aren't you generating tax? Oh you are reading a public domain novel instead of supporting our authors." < 1315615739 349625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seriously, I had no idea I bothered him that much until he decided to yell at me. < 1315615741 70322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Smith v. Doe (2003) that forcing sex offenders to register their whereabouts at regular intervals and the posting of personal information about them on the Internet does not violate the constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws, because this does not constitute any kind of punishment." < 1315615746 161220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck? < 1315615747 476081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure it wasn't a post-facto blame on his part. < 1315615790 294114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lol what < 1315615795 713225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a punishment? okay. < 1315615803 930445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an urge to institute a "no pol" prohibition on the channel < 1315615805 849035 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The ban is on *all ex post facto laws*. < 1315615808 552294 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally all. < 1315615811 56719 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public domain is a commie plot < 1315615817 750455 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :political discussion is boring in here < 1315615819 953987 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we all agree already < 1315615843 234419 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose side are you on pinko < 1315615861 685674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an anarchist so that could probably provide for plenty of amusing and painful debate. < 1315615884 846119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not going to let it happen. < 1315615904 650959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: there's plenty of disagreement here, but it's all on the same boring things, so who cares < 1315615908 9783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write some programs public domain. < 1315615943 465562 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I LOVE PRAGMATISM. < 1315615956 855281 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRRRRR < 1315615985 241623 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl can die in a fire < 1315615985 405023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't explicitly license my programs for anything < 1315615988 713110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is that? < 1315615995 157535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright? < 1315616003 729188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious < 1315616008 857222 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1315616016 563689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but like really serious < 1315616018 884470 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't written anything that has been distributed. < 1315616028 287125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost always, my program will be either public domain or GNU GPL v3 or later version. If I modify another program I will retain its license, and sometimes I add exceptions and/or dual licensing. < 1315616035 611160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from mafia software < 1315616039 910789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE TO MAFIA: above comment is joke < 1315616054 57835 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you are not helping make the rich richer. that makes you their enemy < 1315616097 278302 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can GNU generate government revenue? how? < 1315616101 318884 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315616101 481385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what? I most certainly have no affiliation with the mafia. < 1315616126 969994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and I'd entertain the notion that if you continue to slander their name you might find a wooden bat against your knees. < 1315616135 823974 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU can generate government revenue if you are using it in a commercial product and then there will be tax on it. But other than that it isn't. < 1315616198 620586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I was under the impression that copyright is the default... if not specified. < 1315616204 480942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US anyways. < 1315616211 138318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we <3 copyright. < 1315616215 17719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :berne convention dude < 1315616231 209701 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're getting rid of the public domain and prior art to coincide with 9/11 < 1315616254 230893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bat - made of wood. flapping its wings on your knee. < 1315616271 976167 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: halp legalese. < 1315616289 80017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO WIKIPEDIA < 1315616324 441451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that wasn't helpful. < 1315616336 270638 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Who told you that? < 1315616359 956514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE WIKIMOBILE < 1315616363 680206 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just being cranky < 1315616370 748490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was already bat inspired) < 1315616375 627662 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah... new patent laws changing things in US < 1315616392 213455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not finding anything that's suggesting I'm incorrect... < 1315616398 672616 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I wish you just explained things. SO MUCH EASIER. < 1315616411 761404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explaining things is for LOSERS. < 1315616455 527806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i believe his comment was agreeing with you, actually < 1315616468 136848 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1315616490 313447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks oerjan, you're a pal < 1315616516 466920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in i clearly recall the us _used_ to require explicit copyright notes (there are some works that went public domain for forgetting this) and changed this _because_ of the berne convention. < 1315616520 614942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see it was presented in the "you don't know what you're talking about" tone that elliott has when I am wrong about something or lacking in knowledge. < 1315616541 854939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUS MY CONFUSION. < 1315616565 489579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything you do demonstrates your ignorance. Even when you're right. < 1315616570 348642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true of all people who aren't me. < 1315616573 764311 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude, come on, what you said was just correct. < 1315616590 291948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ignorance/arrogance/ and guess who that sentence now describes... < 1315616603 761793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1315616625 36847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey I take offense to that. < 1315616628 384350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't /that/ arrogant. < 1315616640 175779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: WRONG GUESS < 1315616650 72811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed in Haskell Wiki that everything I wrote on there is all public domain. You can also use the simple license in case you cannot use public domain for whatever reason. < 1315616673 17719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I wonder if that's a legal gray area. < 1315616676 828085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a wiki does not have one author. < 1315616691 957865 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted you can look up the changelog < 1315616696 943994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: most wikis have a license that you agree to by posting, surely? < 1315616716 887597 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I mean, it might be a gray area to declare a work public domain on a wiki. < 1315616728 708396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of elsewhere. < 1315616733 993419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes; I only said that the things I wrote on there specifically myself are public domain. Other people editing might not be. < 1315616770 604290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get an exclamation mark? < 1315616775 947908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! < 1315616779 838735 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...fuck. < 1315616780 652938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :intelectrical property | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315616800 336024 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang wiki is also completely by public domain. < 1315616813 248366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: list subscripting? factorial? logical negation? or are you just yelling at someone? < 1315616821 579979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negation. < 1315616825 393026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also yelling! ! ! ! < 1315616828 758360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/spaces/no spaces/ < 1315616837 89349 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that didn't change your statement < 1315616838 669800 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that s/// < 1315616858 522859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it did. < 1315616861 289604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i think he may have used some non-standard character classes < 1315616865 189541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only accept properly formatted perl regex. < 1315616893 32142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\s//g is correct but then you're just saying Alsoyelling!!!! < 1315616906 910266 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think you probably want something like s/!\s/!/g < 1315616934 653569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: clearly he needs a variant of /g which applies to all matches _except_ the first. < 1315616952 868734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not for s/!\s/!/g ..... < 1315616962 620823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T OVERCOMPLICATE < 1315616973 691218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex is not something to overcomplicate. < 1315616977 559402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all regex should be clean and elegant. < 1315616984 335394 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already overcomplicated < 1315616991 594857 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies. < 1315616993 360172 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtue of being regex < 1315616994 753784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :overcomplicatude is mandatorial! < 1315617014 606452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One other idea I have in Haskell, to make it so that if you write "case of" with no expression in between then it will make it as a function that selects the case of its input < 1315617038 641474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex is clearer than most programs it is equivalent to. With the exception of parser combinatorics perhaps. < 1315617045 438261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how about more generally a multi-clause lambda < 1315617063 196105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: How would that work? < 1315617068 883169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: such a good idea others have already suggested it < 1315617104 562565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/LambdaCase < 1315617108 656537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, everyone wants "case of". < 1315617115 900368 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: like lambda but you can have multiple [pat]->exp deals < 1315617141 154167 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite the same as a curried form of a case expression. < 1315617142 665261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, exactly like that is what I mean. < 1315617143 972366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more verbose. < 1315617145 961233 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like with normal named functions < 1315617165 659855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more verbose < 1315617165 890085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: whats "curried form of a case expression" < 1315617166 52993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh wait I see. < 1315617166 265566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315617171 905470 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nevermind I misinterpreted. < 1315617179 26151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's a different syntactic sugar for the same thing, and has also been suggested before. < 1315617183 673615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what zzo38 is talking about. < 1315617199 500856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1315617209 758791 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a bit more general isn't it? since you can have multiple argument things and all < 1315617212 6731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with lambda can take several arguments < 1315617216 146668 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315617247 505184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about point-free addicts? < 1315617249 363804 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will they do? < 1315617252 843104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :case of {X -> case of {Y -> z}} < 1315617255 275440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we need zzo38's case form. < 1315617256 273424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECT < 1315617260 330638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, wait < 1315617262 325542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you could say < 1315617264 147261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what about them? < 1315617265 75587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: incidentally ocaml has fun and function keywords which do each of those things (but not both multiple arguments and branches simultaneously iirc) < 1315617269 557254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :case , of {X,Y -> z} < 1315617271 527885 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: we need to satisfy their addiction. < 1315617275 524589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :case ,, of {X,Y,Z -> blah} < 1315617279 122942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :B E A U T I F U L < 1315617287 797387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and how would you satisfy it < 1315617295 734999 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ...... < 1315617309 985234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to explain. < 1315617312 995867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm asking you questions because I have a suspicion you're wrong about something < 1315617321 886161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes I've noticed. < 1315617406 892926 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway pointfree addicts would need something more like the maybe/either function deals, like something that generates those for you???? per haps??? < 1315617410 159029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of f x = case x of { ... } you can write f = case of { ... } if the x is not being used somewhere else. Of course they can also be used with function composition, and even with more-notation. So you can write: f = case of { ... } . length . takeWhile (> 0) or something like that, too. < 1315617417 713531 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not really sure I understand what the , and ,, are for there. < 1315617431 854804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: automatic uncurrying. it is so beautiful. so beautiful. < 1315617453 727299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1315617456 17666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1315617457 803180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1315617465 847441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1315617472 339585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's stupid. :P < 1315617480 804800 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurreying was how I was implement case lambdas when I was trying to do them for myself in an ugly manner in TH but then problems struck < 1315617491 198140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315617492 445727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :currying < 1315617494 229192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic currying < 1315617509 627394 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could also have a template haskell code to generate uncurrying for any specified number of arguments you want < 1315617516 428812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUTOMATIC CURRY MMMMM DELICIOUS < 1315617516 590031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :case,, of {A,B,C -> e} ------> case of {A -> case of {B -> case of {C -> e}}} < 1315617519 386423 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f t -> f (fst t) (snd t) < 1315617520 279447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`ap` snd) . (. fst) < 1315617525 933881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely [||] whined about the stuff in it (in the future bound by the stuff in the [p||]) not being in scope < 1315617532 317846 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1315617533 828561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1315617536 821300 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry < 1315617538 322397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1315617551 348366 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are curry and uncurry actually used for anything? < 1315617552 932090 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn;t feel like doing anything fancy with quasiquoter sso I _gave up_ < 1315617560 8299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used them < 1315617560 539946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: curry takes something that is bland and makes it DELICIOUS. < 1315617580 682994 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry takes something delicious and makes it BLAND < 1315617591 35215 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f a b -> f (a, b) < 1315617591 971778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. (,)) . (.) < 1315617597 740146 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION not sure why she's doing something so silly < 1315617607 101915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4359 is the ticket for the discussion of adding this stuff to ghc < 1315617608 897903 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1315617619 352167 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: I believe something is wrong with your nipples < 1315617623 102173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look a little... deformed. < 1315617627 174375 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :perv. < 1315617630 934778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of discussion of exactly what variant to use < 1315617656 932473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best solution is use Perl 6 whatevers. < 1315617669 839072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that reminds me: I need nested guards < 1315617675 392326 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can have partially applied if statements. < 1315617680 75961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pointfree addict guards < 1315617685 470864 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f1 f2 a b -> f1 (f2 a b) < 1315617686 338642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) . (.) < 1315617686 751689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know because that's completely different from cases. < 1315617687 472627 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and first class patterns < 1315617687 892345 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely. < 1315617696 936142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like lambda-if too although I should prefer it is just a normal function (here it is called "if" although you probably name it different): if x _ True = x; if _ x False = x; < 1315617713 523246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: (.|.) is the flat chest operator. < 1315617717 346032 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f1 f2 a b c -> f1 (f2 a b c) < 1315617718 297021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) . (.) . (.) < 1315617729 617592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: curry and uncurry are useful for pointfree code < 1315617735 170683 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1315617736 998040 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f1 f2 f3 a b c -> f1 (f2 (f3 a b c)) < 1315617738 44353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. ((.) . (.) . (.))) . (.) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1315617766 534381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I might find generalized curry and uncurry useful with more-notation, too. < 1315617768 12724 :Sut-Heb!~chatzilla@c-68-39-116-188.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315617780 993580 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 a -> f1 $ f2 $ f3 $ f4 $ f5 a < 1315617781 877860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. ((. ((. (.)) . (.) . (.))) . (.) . (.) . (.))) . (.) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1315617782 610938 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more notation strikes again < 1315617789 214468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) --the angry totem pole is applicable to all situations. < 1315617790 993238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> [b]) < 1315617791 157528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1315617793 967756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does more notation work with tuples or just lists < 1315617814 774329 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) < 1315617816 446942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. b -> [b] < 1315617823 213663 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That is the same as return for list monad, I think < 1315617828 167171 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) 1 < 1315617828 466180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no it is angrier. < 1315617829 960836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1315617833 997891 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1315617842 526280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, but other than its angriness it is the same. < 1315617868 969087 :Sut-Heb!~chatzilla@c-68-39-116-188.hsd1.nj.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1315617870 534632 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[])) 1 < 1315617872 72730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1315617873 193450 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides < 1315617874 627490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the [] is obviously the totem poles belly after it has had delicious snack. < 1315617882 208816 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shakes head < 1315617886 499104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think it is common to call the function if', and also there's the variant bool x y True = x; bool x y False = y which is easier for some uses < 1315617886 663956 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :frowns < 1315617887 818810 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowls < 1315617890 275630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ((:[])>=>) 1 < 1315617891 518807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It works with lists, not with tuples, although you can use tuples in the case alternatives < 1315617892 604840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1315617908 205732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that one, you called "bool" is the one I prefer < 1315617911 998256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh wait that's what you said. if' has the boolean first. < 1315617920 619721 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool is the good variant < 1315617950 153343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah bool corresponds to Bool in the same way as either and maybe correspond to Either and Maybe < 1315617953 407080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t bool < 1315617954 626610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `bool' < 1315617955 298631 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys < 1315617967 926512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sad stuff < 1315617985 759190 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK < 1315617987 440046 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone highlighted me while I was gone, and it seems they got scrolled past my scrollback < 1315618025 818069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ashamed at Haskell for not allowing the infinite totem pole. < 1315618056 586574 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "allowing"? what does haskell have to do with totem poles? < 1315618083 596941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (return>=>) 5 < 1315618084 631502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a totem pole? < 1315618088 549129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what monad law is return >=> return obeying? it is slightly ambiguous. < 1315618088 710190 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I messed it up < 1315618089 621785 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315618094 602170 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the > too < 1315618097 109655 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (return>=>) 5 < 1315618098 459511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m c)) < 1315618098 621738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M2187083411... < 1315618102 289923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I suppose it is considered uncomputable. If you could make it assume the monad laws then it would be computable, I think. < 1315618107 99710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ((:[])>=>) 5 < 1315618108 981193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1315618112 156582 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I messed it < 1315618115 300130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crey:_; < 1315618128 707312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: (:[]) is return for the list monad, and return is the identity for >=> in an arbitrary monad, so (:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]) simplifies to just one (:[]) < 1315618130 260295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess return >=> return is both right identity and left identity at the same time. < 1315618169 253584 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return >=> return) is obeying the Kleisli laws, which is that "return" is identity of (>=>) and (<=<) operators and that these operators are associative. < 1315618194 535870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats categorys help < 1315618208 628694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look up category theory in Wikipedia, too. < 1315618289 460005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe you're just paraphrasing the laws. I was saying it's ambiguous which law is being followed. return >=> g = g or f >=> return = g < 1315618311 269482 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really matter because it amounts to the same thing. < 1315618311 593083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's the same problem in any monoid < 1315618339 442377 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the monad laws aren't even represented directly by >=> < 1315618340 117942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleisli categories are like monoids, except parametrized, i think < 1315618352 48352 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :categories are like monoids, except parametrized < 1315618356 539235 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleisli categories are categories < 1315618365 109705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1315618382 796138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember how to spell Kleisli < 1315618426 438820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: as long as you don't do that annoying ie - ei confusion < 1315618445 973569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat "Kliesli" < 1315618459 904136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits CakeProphet with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1315618481 205762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-,-`-@ < 1315618495 8262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, thorns! < 1315618510 213273 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophets face irl < 1315618517 268709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1315618531 185048 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you put on that sauce pan < 1315618536 465800 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could do that < 1315618537 619332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a face < 1315618540 824038 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help y do u h8 me? < 1315618543 215978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315618546 13854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315618573 414260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to play DF. hopefully I won't die. < 1315618577 731773 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :need moar categoriez < 1315618581 844488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoiler: I will die) < 1315618596 458712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: metal < 1315618836 296382 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current nostalgia target: WebTV < 1315618977 621971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious < 1315619018 223251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315619024 766267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315619077 349491 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misses some of the music < 1315619094 871749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you even have a webtv < 1315619136 682325 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad bought one for my grandmother a long time ago < 1315619439 13286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's insisting that the background music was MIDIs, but I distinctly remember hearing lyrics "I put the sand on the beach" < 1315619566 608939 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zathmari.fortunecity.com/267.html Gargleblurb < 1315619584 502513 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait don't click that < 1315619597 335860 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's some links:

< 1315619603 243570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit creepy < 1315619730 694072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late, I clicked that < 1315619763 159787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1440&bih=761&q=%22i+put+the+sand+on+the+beach%22&btnG=Search < 1315619846 135356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hate the ordering of unsigned's arguments < 1315619859 340473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's just right for cutting and pasting from the history page < 1315619910 63543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooo < 1315619914 580502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't cut from a webpage. < 1315619921 271894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*copy < 1315620051 933808 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315620323 496537 :Anonymous!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315620330 273066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : THERE WAS A VISIBLE SUPERNOVA AND NOBODY FUCKING TOLD ME??????????????????????????/ < 1315620344 198531 :Anonymous!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net NICK :Guest73432 < 1315620346 710022 :alandipert!~alandiper@cpe-174-109-209-095.nc.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1315620346 873328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i distinctly recall mentioning it on the channel. or did i... < 1315620358 434403 :Guest73432!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1315620367 447100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Guest73432 < 1315620382 727042 :Guest73432!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1315620414 178253 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, "Guest73432" is considerably more anonymous than "Anonymous" < 1315620432 330564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind you i haven't actually _seen_ the supernova. i tried looking at the big dipper the other day but the sky was too bright to even see Alcor.) < 1315620433 778308 :Guest73432!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are harder to remember than words < 1315620495 926340 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's all this supernova now? < 1315620499 313537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i don't have any vision enhancing equipment available. < 1315620534 492020 :Guest73432!~Anonymous@97-121-62-244.bois.qwest.net PART :#esoteric < 1315620559 19459 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we impressed our anonymous guest. < 1315620649 355811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in the big dipper < 1315620694 789963 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In" as in "in that region", or "in" as in "in a few decades it won't look like the big dipper anymore"? < 1315620738 618630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that region. the supernova itself is > 20 million years away, so unlikely to affect any normally visible stars < 1315620757 855549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1315620787 201815 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be pretty amazing if one of the stars that forms the big dipper blew up :P < 1315620854 936035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1315620978 356123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :VY Canis Majoris _is_ the largest known star and listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supernova_candidates < 1315621006 322305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it's one of the "big dipper" stars. < 1315621032 591678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_dipper < 1315621054 364381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :M101 in the upper left there is the galaxy where the current supernova is < 1315621688 113484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2011fe < 1315621947 826074 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fixed line length was used by some early mainframe operating systems. In such a system, an implicit end-of-line was assumed every 80 characters..." Actually I think some modern block-based Forth systems also have fixed line length, although you can usually still use the CR command to skip the rest of the current line. < 1315621995 557019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that rings a bell < 1315622008 677657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth pages or something < 1315622040 43692 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, pages in a block-based Forth system often have fixed line lengths and a fixed number of lines per page. < 1315622752 915472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: incidentally from that ghc trac page i linked previously it seems like _some_ variant of point-free case syntax is being added to an experimental branch of ghc, although they seem to still be tweaking the syntax < 1315622811 740785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is currently slated for 7.4, although that has been changed before < 1315622858 583264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems there's a lot of disagreement on exactly what syntax to use for it < 1315623024 549331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when not even the simons agree, things probably take time in haskell-land :P < 1315623500 738028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a tool that converts a given file into an appropriately-named string literal for embedding into a C program? < 1315623502 707092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think just "case of" with no expression following "case" should be a good syntax for that, just like (,) can be used instead of (1,2) for tuples, so use the same for case. < 1315623504 731508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could just use sed. < 1315623553 790431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the thing is that doesn't work so well for multi-parameter functions, which they are also trying to include < 1315623569 603091 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something along the lines of lambda syntax: where it's at < 1315623571 846288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said: case,, of < 1315623575 345272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best. < 1315623590 205994 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I suppose sed will do, maybe AWK will do, or Perl, etc; although I usually do Enhanced CWEB stuff writing a C code to generate a C code < 1315623596 727800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "commas are right out" said one of the simons :P < 1315623606 195026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I told you how to do that too: case of { ... } . curry < 1315623607 478060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha, link? < 1315623612 540365 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comas ugly, gross < 1315623613 192537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I told you how to do that too: case of { ... } . uncurry < 1315623634 515359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "uncurry" function that will do it, isn't it? < 1315623643 804045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4359 < 1315623651 21853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it'd be clumsy in practice < 1315623660 288225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need different amount you do $(genUncurry 5) for five parameters, for example. < 1315623660 784968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and what about when you need more than 2 arguments < 1315623668 501965 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1315623672 929115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry . uncurry < 1315623674 494042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a b1. (a -> b1 -> b -> c) -> ((a, b1), b) -> c < 1315623678 114277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect :P < 1315623680 556531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuughhhhhh < 1315623741 411646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested using Template Hsakell to have functions such as genUncurry, genCurry, genReorder, etc. < 1315623781 905850 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :genUncurry :: Int -> Q Exp; genCurry :: Int -> Q Exp; genReorder :: [Int] -> Q Exp; < 1315624011 635632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (,) = curry id < 1315624216 94109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have: curry case of { ... } < 1315624216 879474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry id < 1315624217 961988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> (a, b) < 1315624221 286513 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how you do multiple arguments. < 1315624225 683510 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK? < 1315624265 216584 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for five arguments, you want: $(genCurry 5) case of { ... } < 1315624285 776517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it makes sense? < 1315624600 221808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you dislike "curry case of"; it make sense to me. < 1315624818 858448 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) it's gross and there are clean ways to do it < 1315624832 14035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by that? < 1315624840 442267 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's hideous < 1315624870 684264 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2) symmetry with named function definitions is good < 1315624885 64318 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. Can you explain what it seem wrong to you, and what you think is better way? < 1315624894 667496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for lambda functions, in the area of having multiple pattern/clauses) < 1315624935 553624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ugly part is having to depend on a template haskell helper function and putting it in front and it looks ugly < 1315624951 656700 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trollscript is the most appropriate thing ever < 1315624952 110356 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315624967 933776 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my solution is to extend lambda syntax so you can have something like (not necessarily this exact syntax)--augur: I saw it too :( < 1315624971 54094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1315625049 101693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ (Just a) _ -> a < 1315625051 774035 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ False -> thing < 1315625054 99486 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ _ -> hello < 1315625070 40045 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need extra syntax in there but that's the basic idea < 1315625101 598142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to think "curry case of" and stuff is not bad; even if it seem ugly to you; but you could also have some kind of macros allowing to make up a lot of extra stuff. < 1315625215 547158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And using that with \ seem not right because of layout and nonlayout and that stuff. But it might work better if it is "\ of" to introduce that kind of syntax < 1315625245 165642 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for layout/nonlayout there'd be a {;;;;}ey form < 1315625268 372772 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, my example was just the general idea of what I wanted, not the exact syntax < 1315625273 789295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, using {} for nonlayout, but \ is not normally layout anyways. < 1315625299 572936 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want something like that, put the word "of" after \ and then it can introduce layout and working easily < 1315625414 45264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever syntax is used, I think it should sense to be consider a case block for purpose of more-notation (that is, if you use more-notation at all). < 1315625422 224957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the essence of what I want: allow multiple arguments without tricks (this includes template haskell curry foolery), preferably by extending lambda syntax to be more symmetric with named function definitions < 1315625468 338286 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since named functions can have multiple cases and what-not why can't lambdas???? < 1315625473 399719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Then it seem it would work to use "\ of", like you described but with "of" on it to introduce layout. < 1315625485 614265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For allowing multiple cases) < 1315625486 20905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i also think \ of would be a good idea but it does not seem to be what they are implementing < 1315625568 261623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case the codes in section 5.1 of proposal of more-notation is like this: ann = \ of more PExpAnnCases; amap f = \ of more PExpAmapCases f; < 1315625585 399245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on that trac gave an example of something commonly used that would break with monqy's \ + just layout syntax < 1315625620 789452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't see that, but I still agree and I already thought of that anyways so that is why I made a different suggestion < 1315625621 774130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add a bit of extra syntax to tidy it up < 1315625626 317034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something >>= \ whatever -> < 1315625629 249054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : do ... < 1315625680 989252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if \ of works as the extra syntax, that's good I suppose < 1315625719 155126 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suggest also having "case of" which is the same but allows only one argument, which means you will not need parentheses as much < 1315625750 589454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315625797 693835 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except then you need even more weight when you want extra arguments < 1315625801 181969 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1315625806 452945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1315625940 805874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also seem to me, more-notation would be more easily implement using "case of" than with "\ of"; you can write "f = curry case of more CasesF;" even if it is strange to you.) < 1315625977 269120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even clumsier < 1315626007 676812 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just meant it's easier for you to fit more notation into case of < 1315626034 317864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Awww, the supernova is just a type 1a. < 1315626035 576683 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case I must disagree; it seems just as easy to fit it into any other < 1315626068 687449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually somewhat exciting because type 1a's are being used to calibrate intergalactic distances < 1315626080 521726 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Actually I just meant it seems to me it would be easier to implement. It doesn't mean you can't have "\ of". < 1315626081 318889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is the best observation of one so far < 1315626276 190292 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you understand now what I mean? Have I made any mistake? < 1315626513 297461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone said "linked lists are inherently superior to arrays/arraylists when it comes to removing items from them" < 1315626520 89308 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readCard :: (Card -> t) -> Render t; < 1315626522 524840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more superiorer: finger trees < 1315626615 762752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm i guess more-notation is analogous to prolog's multifile predicates... < 1315626619 974289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a thought < 1315626654 983271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know that stuff about Prolog, but maybe it is. I can try to figure it out < 1315626826 606481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell me how multifile predicates works? < 1315626871 257972 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some javascript help. Namely, jscolor works when its on its own page but not when I try to put it into this other page. Anyone here know enough js to debug with me? < 1315626873 773249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well afaik if you declare a predicate with multifile, then swi-prolog allows you to define clauses of it in multiple files. usually it doesn't for efficiency or whatever. < 1315626895 612791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Gregor knows js quite well :P < 1315626915 644694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prolog clauses are somewhat similar to single function equations in haskell < 1315626961 798567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and i think there's a different declaration for allowing adding clauses at runtime < 1315627089 901924 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : points to http://thirdstyle.com/forum/chat/js/jscolor/jscolor.js < 1315627095 993545 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, then I suppose the more-notation for case blocks somewhat resembles that. < 1315627110 600332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not sure about that, but there is a "discontiguous" declaration for allowing spreading a predicate around in a file < 1315627131 832502 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have (and if you look at jscolor, it binds to anything with color in its class < 1315627137 107151 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't work < 1315627140 93911 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, this works fine: http://thirdstyle.com/forum/chat/js/jscolor/demo.html ??? < 1315627148 555771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also relevant http://jscolor.com/try.php < 1315627175 644833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "dynamic" is the one which allows modifying the predicate after compilation < 1315627188 824685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gprolog.org/manual/html_node/gprolog022.html < 1315627270 331405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1315627340 589822 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315627354 304531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to punish whoever invented trollscript < 1315627418 48617 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ph know about it < 1315627433 137769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315627438 252519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no trollscript on the wiki < 1315627451 819801 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1315627463 652434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: google it < 1315627604 245894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh reddit < 1315627625 740705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn;t find it on reddit but i did find it < 1315627627 516976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :trollscript makes me think of lolcode but somehow even worse < 1315627631 207321 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I on the ball? < 1315627635 743732 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find out < 1315627670 598034 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least people are criticising it < 1315627716 355543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who isn't me and has no reputation, create an issue on github saying it's shit :P < 1315627736 714381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, preferably link to at least ten existing trivial bf derivatives to disprove that it is an esoteric derivative as claimed < 1315627741 761277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1315627742 923682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :punch him < 1315627760 593896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, clearly with your heavy reputation you should have more authority < 1315627801 338239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE A GOOD REPUTATION ON GITHUB :P < 1315627810 88439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MR. APFELMUS WOULD JUDGE ME < 1315627844 899399 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's literally brainfuck < 1315627848 365621 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's disappointing < 1315627857 823516 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect < 1315627859 185072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here we were commenting on it for its immense value. < 1315627863 203981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's making a competitor to Opa and Ur/Web? < 1315627868 672827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh well, at least it's a euphonic language < 1315627879 909318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow Sgeo your words just made me want to punch you < 1315627882 885955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h;w did this hap/pen < 1315627886 5739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/k90ed/google_to_announce_new_programming_language_for/ < 1315627901 722571 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we don't know enogh about it, I guess < 1315627905 874401 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bracha's involved :D < 1315627906 84724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your beloved gilad bracha worked on it < 1315627907 773047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be perfect < 1315627914 46246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by perfect i mean terrible < 1315627943 123686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I HAVE A GOOD REPUTATION ON GITHUB :P <-- wait is this a euphemism for "no one there knows i do esolangs"? < 1315627969 32629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, nobody there (= probably all of one person) would expect me to make a rude unproductive issue :D < 1315627974 816209 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you dislike Bracha's languages? < 1315627991 665626 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could make a calm issue? < 1315628002 781343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no point to this." < 1315628025 397119 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calm, reasonable. < 1315628047 177854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue: this language kindly fucking sucks < 1315628059 486538 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's more than just brainfuck < 1315628061 364854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue: I FUCK;IGN HATE YOU AND WANT TO MASH DEATH INTYO YOUR SKULLS (PLEASE THANK YOU0 < 1315628067 135283 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315628072 272571 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tro has to be in front, and ll. has to be at end < 1315628081 572025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think section 5 in my proposal of more-notation helps a lot to you reading this document? < 1315628126 920237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315628129 122652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trollololol-tastic." - redit < 1315628224 793151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you switch text/binary I/O mode in Haskell? < 1315628230 364209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle binarymode < 1315628238 134491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaa < 1315628243 195861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad timing < 1315628247 527154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does the Prolog multifile stuff can do reordering, or do you have to put everything in the correct order at first? < 1315628260 933801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, the answer is yes, there are functions to switch < 1315628282 856441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh. i suppose you have to import the files in the correct order. < 1315628289 62301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: more notation only works in one file, btw < 1315628297 855916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which might be one reason why it's not the default < 1315628348 401233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unless you allowed it in multiple modules, or allowed a private include command for preprocessor, etc < 1315628443 118054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it 6:21 already < 1315628454 723836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even finished my logreading < 1315628454 884667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that, but an hour earlier, already < 1315628459 786371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even finished my coding < 1315628476 665101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only wrote it works in only one module (unless it becomes easy to make it work with multiple modules), but it can possibly work with multiple files if there is a way to do that. < 1315628484 144813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think we have to bow after that < 1315628485 433475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows < 1315628491 148184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows < 1315628495 293890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful. < 1315628508 323637 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! < 1315628510 936067 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need.....an adult ;_; < 1315628518 29265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! I need.....an adult ;_; < 1315628520 380866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646) dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! I need.....an adult ;_; < 1315628526 336985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628526 606285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628526 890236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628527 50618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628527 209629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628527 369523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1315628529 517520 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :279) ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing I think that would be illegal. oh you are right damn :/ < 1315628530 257275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :184) Vonlebio: well, i'm only back in denmark because my work visa expired. please insert token to continue. < 1315628530 750395 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :301) so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported? < 1315628532 158760 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :415) scripting language. whole program analysis. together at last < 1315628533 435869 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :58) Maternal instincts? Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops? < 1315628533 651494 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :352) . Ohheywait, I can make it a raytracer instead of a photon tracer so long as I run time backwards. < 1315628535 54873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: ooh tell me if you find a shop which sells them! < 1315628539 954030 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol oerjan < 1315628562 625456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : scripting language. whole program analysis. together at last < 1315628565 451063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to addquote this again < 1315628574 194718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 352) . Ohheywait, I can make it a raytracer instead of a photon tracer so long as I run time backwards. < 1315628576 50891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIJSFIOJSOFIJOISDFOSM ERROR < 1315628576 628669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR < 1315628577 583854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR < 1315628578 192639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR < 1315628578 824326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR < 1315628581 386155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FIX IT < 1315628594 679208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/. / /g' quotes < 1315628596 943101 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1315628604 487931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 352 < 1315628605 455403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding 279, is that still illegal? < 1315628606 629200 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :352) Ohheywait, I can make it a raytracer instead of a photon tracer so long as I run time backwards. < 1315628621 938636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in this country, at least. (But I don't think it ever was.) < 1315628629 491892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, someone tell Vorpal < 1315628638 699418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you should get his hopes up. < 1315628644 575238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1315628683 747896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Even if it is all in one file, it is still like discontiguous/1 in Prolog I guess. < 1315628690 621696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hey, go wake fizzie up. < 1315628696 408066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In this analogy, you're the cat.) < 1315628709 804654 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1315628747 565402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah < 1315628762 946218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that means i get to use a bat, right? < 1315628765 861510 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a channel with 500 people in it be dead??? < 1315628782 15091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section 5.1 even pertains to a program that is in Haskell! Section 5.2 and 5.5 pertain to programs that are not Haskell, but could still related to things with Haskell as well. < 1315628789 628506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: zombie virus? < 1315628795 82554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1315628832 561537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You, like, totally have commits to mcmap; wake up in lieu of fizzie. < 1315628861 773359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finns and they're eerie sleep in the night perversion < 1315628864 334743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their < 1315628893 24021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's 7:28 over there < 1315628893 183833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY NON-SCANDINAVIAN WORK ON MCMAP < 1315628897 814154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Work on mcm- DAMMIT. < 1315628912 749900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but i'm not non-scandinavian < 1315628917 446102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUS THE DAMMIT < 1315628942 702255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ask zzo38 < 1315628945 3496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sprints < 1315628952 633008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hey work on mcmap < 1315628957 570456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can conevrt it to enhanced cweb it ok < 1315628969 69113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am not interested in that program < 1315628986 582897 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not interested in mcmap < 1315629014 510057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not interested in it, Sam I am? < 1315629136 392992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i dont get it why am i geting tired < 1315629217 326711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait oerjan wait wait wait, oerjan, wait, do i code more mcmap or slep.... < 1315629218 426046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1315629220 110387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to life :( < 1315629336 328902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|“u” stands for “uninterpreted” (it's not treated as a Scheme value), or “unprotected” (it's not marked during GC), or “unsigned long” (its size), or all of these things." < 1315629341 274847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/|/"/ < 1315629356 449178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuunsafe < 1315629645 304408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1315629901 160274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct packet_format_desc packet_format[ < 1315629901 324216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define PACKET(id, cname, scmname, nfields, ...) \ < 1315629901 324325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 + < 1315629901 324368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include "protocol.x" < 1315629902 75804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #undef PACKET < 1315629904 291890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1315629906 72294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]; < 1315629918 123759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that doesn't quite work :P < 1315629925 956521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but this might... < 1315630041 792930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have a challenge for you. < 1315630062 50479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find me an arithmetic expression that always returns the last operand :P < 1315630066 538942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, one that looks like either < 1315630073 336054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSTANT OP elt OP elt OP elt ... < 1315630073 788513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1315630079 304290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elt OP elt OP elt ... OP CONSTANT < 1315630087 574665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there can be multiple ops per elt, and the elt can be repeated for each elt < 1315630096 727897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 * x + y < 1315630103 126519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (elt-9) / (elttwo-9) / ... / 0 is ok < 1315630104 937327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 * x1 * x2 * x3 + y < 1315630121 571464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's brilliant, but unfortunately no; the operation must be the same for every element < 1315630126 23202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that changes to + for the last element < 1315630129 974246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1315630150 355707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can actually be repeated later, so you can nest parens < 1315630157 162649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by making the expansion ) for each element) < 1315630208 235490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x1 * 0 + x2) * 0 + x3) * 0 + y < 1315630232 563540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um is that the same operation for every element? < 1315630241 464226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if i use one extra paren then < 1315630244 292981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elt) * 0 + < 1315630244 997924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1315630286 457597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except no it isn't, because that does it to the _last_ element too. < 1315630296 833205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the single-element expansion there for the main body? < 1315630308 429165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er x op y = x*0 + y < 1315630331 987116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that wrong :( < 1315630341 783553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you seem to be under the impression that it's a binary op, rather than just a per-element syntactic expansion. _but_, actually, that might work < 1315630347 280003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can define a cpp macro OP() < 1315630352 320460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write that in polish notation for me? < 1315630372 398167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with OP()) < 1315630378 703226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm what about x1*0 + x2*0 + y < 1315630390 575336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that syntactic enough for you < 1315630399 567824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I still need to define the OP < 1315630408 934271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait < 1315630411 793417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : er x op y = x*0 + y < 1315630413 939828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x1 * 0 + x2) * 0 + x3) * 0 + y < 1315630414 854552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :---> < 1315630422 145311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OP(OP(OP(a,b),c),d) < 1315630425 660175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so first it's < 1315630426 646465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OP( < 1315630431 120014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every element < 1315630433 199239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's < 1315630435 82164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,x) for every element < 1315630436 928011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that becomes < 1315630442 348066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OP(OP(OP(,a),b),c),d) < 1315630444 391092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1315630456 479168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1315630462 878043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just put 0 after the OP( for every element < 1315630471 254099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just put any constant in the center < 1315630486 814338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you could do that < 1315630488 764712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and suddenly I become sceptical that this will work, because cpp tends to _not_ let you call functions in indirect manners like this... < 1315630495 196106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315630508 328016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.x:57: error: unterminated argument list invoking macro "GROSS" < 1315630509 770481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1315630531 188507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok wait let me look at < 1315630533 975603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: oh hm what about x1*0 + x2*0 + y < 1315630539 102846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the expansion for each element meant to be here? < 1315630543 187408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0 + e? < 1315630545 740950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some constant at the start? < 1315630562 620388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that might actually work < 1315630568 257251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does :DDD < 1315630570 611380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh almost < 1315630590 867364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct packet_format_desc packet_format[ < 1315630591 27112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1315630591 189423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PACKET(id, cname, scmname, nfields, ...) \ < 1315630591 189615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 0 + id < 1315630591 189726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "protocol.x" < 1315630591 349596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef PACKET < 1315630593 274805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 < 1315630595 179860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]; < 1315630597 182003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: beautiful, no? < 1315630608 19494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1315630614 78919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he remembers that the packet id is sent as a byte, so he can just use two hundred and fifty six >_> < 1315630622 159391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but thank you anyway :P < 1315630626 97171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was _enlightening_ < 1315630654 603178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and I hope Notch increases the size of the packet id, just so I can us ethat. < 1315630657 99444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that. < 1315630710 14568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1315631069 676363 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1315631399 356665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ampersand plz < 1315631418 482749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, don't need it < 1315631435 528057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :intelectrical property | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315631448 677182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1315632619 527786 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315632632 401257 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw fixed my js problem < 1315632640 280443 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was really dumb and I feel bad about myself < 1315632836 344452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315632837 44068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it < 1315632880 973857 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was re-generating the div it was in after loading the page, and here's the dumb part: I had already turned off that part and forgot to push that change < 1315632881 604559 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315632884 506915 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I -had- it fixed but not pushed < 1315632933 766282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315632976 801742 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad someone told me to try that < 1315632981 216942 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I probably wouldn't have ever noticed < 1315633489 910531 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315633678 913123 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1315634526 874971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a proper name in category theory for having only the "unit" function of a monad and not join/fmap? < 1315634750 978320 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, without fmap < 1315634755 691772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :what laws would the unit follow? < 1315634763 243042 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can talk about a pointed functor if you have fmap < 1315634789 31412 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No laws at all. It is useless by itself < 1315634798 393106 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why would there be a name for it < 1315634804 597529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But OK, with unit/fmap and no join I can use pointed functor, I suppose < 1315634806 839643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1315634826 710432 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315634859 751046 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the law that would satisfy is that fmap f (pure x) = pure (f x) < 1315634866 385783 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is automatically true in haskell :) < 1315634869 931964 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315634882 615689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1315634885 555034 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in other categories isn't necessarily true < 1315634910 395124 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free pure :: a -> F a < 1315634934 879770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: automatically? I'm sure you can violate it < 1315634949 391370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Functor [] where pure x = [x]; fmap _ _ = [] < 1315634986 92094 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if you already had a valid functor < 1315634994 147622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315635001 909979 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which by the way only needs fmap id = id < 1315635058 952588 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PART :#esoteric < 1315635161 881603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315635220 989284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How's this commit frequency compared to mushspace's: https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commits/guile < 1315635700 27311 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell Haskell to assume that overlapping instances are equivalent? < 1315635736 933892 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not meant to commit that fast??? < 1315635740 365335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin? :P < 1315635740 941312 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh, I'm using github all wrong < 1315635753 945574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I'm pretty sure you're meant to commit with a greater granularity than I've been doing. < 1315635765 143836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just been in, what's it called, crunch mode. < 1315635765 540766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe IncoherentInstances? < 1315635781 151997 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315635785 159168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i've never tried it but...) < 1315635797 565729 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't < 1315635822 281912 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "No, *you're* the incoherent instance." < 1315635828 37710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I used OverlappingInstances and that seem to work < 1315635839 473828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: For instance https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/8915baceeae4d5909b959c35f0bc3bc087eba55d, https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/0fe090f7271d2ab141a7c756f5fbde4b5b228ee7, and especially https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/194c50e4d03c7971363c84b7811386da376ce17e look too big to me. < 1315635841 999703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh. i thought you had a more serious problem. < 1315635885 236883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that doesn't assume they are equivalent, but it chooses the most specific one if there is one. < 1315635911 639877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc IncoherentInstances chooses arbitrarily even if there isn't, or something < 1315635915 62173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But if they are in fact equivalent, it should work, isn't it? < 1315635922 137084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah you'd think < 1315635947 93597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: P.S. Do you play Minecraft because MCMAP IS TOTALLY THE BEST. < 1315636425 596846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to allow partially applied type synonyms in instance declarations? < 1315636476 272090 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it can't always make up its mind < 1315636484 613119 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have class Moo a b < 1315636492 281866 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instance Moo Int b and instance Moo a Int < 1315636502 798385 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have Int Int < 1315636509 837239 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll bitch and tell you it can't make up its mind < 1315636516 894996 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought you were asking about < 1315636525 932504 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it'd be nice to say "yo, don't bitch, there's no difference" < 1315636528 931944 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't do that < 1315636551 240897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need are ~/~ constraints. :p < 1315636558 486616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (b ~/~ Int) => Moo Int b < 1315636563 816631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Moo a Int < 1315636570 994898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, what I mean, is for example to make a Functor instance from a type synonym < 1315636600 95352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's plain impossible, it makes checking totally undecidable. < 1315636606 496044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, that won't work, wrap it in a newtype first < 1315636635 754896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Awesome a = a; instance Functor Awesome where fmap = id < 1315636641 68502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AUUUUUUUUGH < 1315636655 56201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is the problem. < 1315636669 222905 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I understand. < 1315636690 99155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs the poor type system < 1315636844 957507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2010/3/25/1269523445370/Austin-Heap-001.jpg < 1315636855 492382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where on _earth_ do the Guardian get their ideas for "photos of people we think are smart"? < 1315636869 98672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i _may_ be referencing ais' here too :P) < 1315636977 4309 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out one way to allow you to make monads by unit/join/fmap or by return/bind and either way should work: class Functor u => PointedFunctor u where { unit :: x -> u x; }; class Joinable j where { join :: j (j x) -> j x; }; instance (PointedFunctor m, Joinable m) => Monad m where { return = unit; x >>= f = join $ fmap f x; }; instance Monad j => Joinable j where { join = (>>= id); }; instance (Functor p, Monad p) => PointedFunct < 1315637000 118362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"instance (PointedFunctor m, Joinable m) => Monad m" ;; really bad idea. < 1315637011 425630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such instances require excessive extensions for areason. < 1315637021 213091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does require extensions < 1315637028 139610 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315637396 341548 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :excessive, he said :) < 1315637403 937610 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :overlapping instances is really something you don't want < 1315637431 251945 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, time for bed < 1315637433 186248 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to sleep < 1315637453 711685 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Why? I think it is useful program < 1315637463 208128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why they put it there. < 1315637482 804954 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it definitely is < 1315637491 183381 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just want to understand all the downsides to using it :) < 1315637502 14656 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can't stay awake < 1315637505 481386 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao :P < 1315637508 18326 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1315638071 626168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315638232 667183 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315638247 144176 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an llvm to bf compiler? < 1315638294 221217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a work-in-progress-but-stalled gcc-bf backend. < 1315638305 505925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the old, ancient, not-very-good C2BF. < 1315638317 221445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that, not that I know of; you thinking of writing one? < 1315638561 209707 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was thinking on working on this project...if it has not been done already < 1315638582 442580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cool. And probably easier than the awful gcc backend project. < 1315638608 805613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, who worked on gcc-bf, complained about LLVM assuming more than it should IIRC, but that applies to just about any "portable low-level" thing, since BF is quite unlike an ordinary machine. < 1315638622 489534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can ask him when he's around again. Might be Monday. < 1315638817 461620 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1315641967 646190 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1315642024 976451 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any resource where i can get more info on gcc-bf < 1315642039 383916 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from ais.. < 1315642867 317868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ais :) < 1315642876 19160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could leave a message on his wiki talk page. < 1315642885 990058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an admin there so he should see it the next time he's online. < 1315642896 115400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Ais523 < 1315642930 17059 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315642940 723924 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1315643001 345389 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1315643016 131053 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's the third anniversary of the end of the world < 1315643025 257766 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world ended in 2008? < 1315643029 690978 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it ended in 2011 < 1315643040 449257 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends pretty much every year < 1315643063 931398 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 3 years ago TODAY, the LHC was powered up < 1315643096 171955 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creating millions of microscopic black holes that pulled the entire planet into the Swiss-France border < 1315643380 682039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315643392 664731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315643427 174176 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, they never created any black holes. The whole project was plagued by bureaucracy and funding problems, and never started up. The data up till now has been fabricated. < 1315643436 653873 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why else do you think we're still here, stupid? < 1315643522 216733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Bureaucracy? Seriously? < 1315643534 484916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise the Illuminati are delaying the launch until 2012, don't you? < 1315643543 322990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on. It's all a little TOO CONVENIENT. < 1315643713 886261 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Black_days < 1315643861 322260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1315643922 232431 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when I go on a wiki walk on wikipedia < 1315643930 387689 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at my tabs and thing "Wha?" < 1315643940 880422 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :List of predicted dates of the end of the world < 1315643942 365858 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fraud < 1315643961 462134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hundred Year's War (1337-1360) < 1315643964 248763 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antibubble < 1315644723 328130 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315644892 507031 :kaus!~kaus@117.201.51.150 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315645290 212369 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My epetition has 9 signatures! < 1315645309 773515 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 99991 to go! < 1315645328 14278 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it like the age of consent? < 1315645345 289244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :99999 signatures = I don't care, 100000 signatures = OMG this is serious guys < 1315645354 986774 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1315645365 612833 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the more signatures it has the faster it grows < 1315645379 939387 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when it reached 100000 automatic debate in the House of Commons < 1315645395 238237 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6982 < 1315645401 132040 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1315645875 789159 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1315645879 375307 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: TTFN < 1315646028 823679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I anti-sign it? I'm a horrible person like that. < 1315647015 381021 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315647021 335358 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1315647333 59959 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most interesting esoteric pi calculator is the Piet one < 1315647339 794988 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/piet_pi_big.png < 1315647487 854289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's like that ioccc entry < 1315647984 364197 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1315648293 439253 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315649089 621342 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315649609 910698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315649635 787842 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1315650056 811149 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315650390 593425 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 NICK :elliott < 1315650399 746049 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.228.192 QUIT :Changing host < 1315650399 905628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315650994 849361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651034 89252 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651040 952355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651135 972885 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651152 911512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651158 162763 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651162 19533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651181 406443 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651187 189979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651190 435242 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651193 89193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651197 997281 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651202 507721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651204 649239 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651208 793993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651209 827123 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651212 321486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651213 560908 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651220 100360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651220 987196 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651223 517734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651227 808690 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651230 564028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651232 133285 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651234 805868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1315651236 922172 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1315651240 606119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1315651245 312806 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1315651247 430371 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sheep < 1315651248 498596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1315651249 944298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some flow < 1315651254 885411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was sure that would fuck you up < 1315651264 997575 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1315651281 33485 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really really really stupid but i'm not that stupid < 1315651285 701548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1315651292 172718 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so lazy man, see how lazy i am < 1315651309 904640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazyman < 1315651434 456420 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i wish i lived on the moon < 1315651442 54085 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :life would be so much simpler < 1315651450 171221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote moon < 1315651455 60286 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :34) I am not on the moon. < 1315651463 702725 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither man, me neither < 1315651470 273964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote gravity < 1315651472 895095 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :33) pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. < 1315651487 642913 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell do you mean by that < 1315651490 792317 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless? < 1315651494 554452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote q < 1315651496 991872 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 6) His body should be given to science. He's alive :P Even so. \ 11) wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? < 1315651498 252821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was young and naive < 1315651498 821212 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :try awesome < 1315651507 51948 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm k < 1315651519 77170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wc -l quotes < 1315651521 170866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646 quotes < 1315651524 483627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that a lot of quote < 1315651536 175259 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was such a pedophile in the first grade < 1315652159 120479 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315652419 665801 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im afraid i have plunged deep into the wonderful world of slep problems. after staying up over 24 hours i only maybe managed a short nap. < 1315652432 458881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because i dreamt about trying to get to sleep < 1315652440 222898 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not entirely sure if that even happened < 1315652700 855279 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you tired all the time tho < 1315652715 796493 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't mind sleeping little if i didn't feel like meh 24/7 < 1315652750 34053 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do sleeping any amount of time in existence and feeling like a carrot pood in my brain < 1315652753 927379 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mind < 1315652783 752716 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my yesterday experience I was only really tired sometimes. < 1315653171 507482 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :all day long i feel like i just woke up < 1315653192 102244 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then suddenly it turns into wanting to sleep < 1315653236 851132 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again it's only about a week since i started sleeping "regularly", perhaps my brain starts working at some point < 1315653310 575680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315653353 276244 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I write something like this it assumes everything is instance of X and Y: class X a; class Y a; instance X a => Y a; instance Y a => X a; is that like circular reasoning? < 1315653424 751790 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck getting it to compile < 1315653454 750718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I wanted it to do instead is, if I define instance X Int then it will automatically make up instance Y Int and if I define instance Y Char then it will automaticaly make up instance X Char < 1315653478 919092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It does compile when the extensions are selected to make it do so. < 1315653488 761803 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315653519 675110 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems to me that making everything become instance of X and Y due to that is like circular reasoning. < 1315653520 884115 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the don't actually try compiling, just print ay okay extension < 1315653552 792971 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem very circular to me < 1315653599 104872 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit less circular than mutual recursion, and that isn't even circular?? < 1315653815 218239 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :John McCarthy might have gotten his scoping wrong, Lee Harvey Oswald managed without scoping < 1315653881 884732 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315654050 114843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315654268 420665 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "Could not deduce (x1 ~ Bool)" means? < 1315654327 707236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a ~ b) means the types a and b are identical, as a constraint < 1315654343 221738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're supplying a Bool, but GHC wants an x1 < 1315654721 695822 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1315654727 549459 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ZOMBIE 99 bottles of beer is 0.02 stars away from being the best ZOMBIE 99 bottles of beer program on the site < 1315654861 984462 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-zombie-2562.html < 1315654870 259372 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the code I provided result in everything being instance of X and Y? My example has no class members but I tried adding some and it results in the same thing < 1315654917 493696 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's what's happening? < 1315654932 455975 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is happening < 1315654938 517951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds < 1315654939 357945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1315655022 210257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like circular reasoning to me, but I don't really know. < 1315655047 199005 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems weird to me < 1315655124 118214 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's the top now! < 1315655178 419252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deducing "everything is an instance of X and Y" from "instances of X are instances of Y" and "instances of Y are instances of X" doesn't quite strike me as circular. Why are X and Y separate, anyhow? why not merge them? or is the actual case in which you are using this sort of thing such that this would not be possible? < 1315655429 869746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It is not always possible. < 1315655442 23421 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315655456 962755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your case? < 1315655471 151292 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what exactly is happening < 1315655581 95902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I described it. For example, if you have a class member { xX :: a -> a; } now it allows you to use xX on values of any type. < 1315655626 756148 :max_!~max@114.79.21.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315655780 858639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315655811 424076 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you found a bug? I don't know. < 1315655830 888514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe, the class Y requires multiple constraints, if everything applies to each other then it results in the same thing. < 1315656055 186350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have instance (Container m, Functor m, Joinable m) => Monad m; instance Monad j => Joinable j; instance Monad p => Container p; instance Monaf f => Functor f; then it assumes everything of kind (* -> *) is a monad (although properly defined monads still work properly), and things that should not be monads cause infinite loops < 1315656225 467035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having instance Monad f => Functor f; instance Comonad f => Functor f; results in compile error. < 1315657570 979615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote We have no leather. Time to use that most venerable of resources, the puppy. < 1315657573 523041 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :647) We have no leather. Time to use that most venerable of resources, the puppy. < 1315657595 476971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Phantom_Hoover he's poop because that was hialrious < 1315657742 490260 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1315657805 55645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Phantom_Hoover complains he's poop because that was hialrious < 1315657814 257547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315659024 594859 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1315659415 951664 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315659501 137161 :max_!~max@114.79.21.106 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315659519 585671 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :offer of a lifetime, guys: http://london.craigslist.co.uk/cpg/2591274619.html < 1315659534 168981 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Client Quit < 1315659546 725752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet company < 1315659551 220674 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep reading < 1315659560 325853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's surely parody < 1315659586 558697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is < 1315659625 210998 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :parody of what? < 1315659641 463023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :startup job postings like that < 1315659649 900029 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely a joke < 1315659658 774254 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell makes startups in london < 1315659669 450159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315660051 380601 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :carmack sez "Many worthwhile posts here: http://prog21.dadgum.com/archives.html" < 1315660067 351373 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott i bet you wish you knew about that website < 1315660107 805752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1315660118 621464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did Carmack actually say that?) < 1315660155 483145 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" itidus20: You probably want to read http://prog21.dadgum.com/23.html" < 1315660162 373132 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack < 1315660201 990054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, some synchronicity. < 1315660214 78196 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you carl jung < 1315660231 725018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315660237 779006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey monqy remember http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png < 1315660370 779503 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that synchronicity that all the games i played growing up are popular :-s < 1315660396 69065 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is not actual synchronicity though < 1315660422 504707 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^all the ones i got obsessed with < 1315660441 477330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introducing Bitcoinica API (The first RESTful Bitcoin Trading API) (bitcoinica.com) < 1315660450 372469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this headline hits my mental spam filters so hard that it actually gets highlighted < 1315660457 887555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how spam filters are meant to work, brain < 1315660473 994625 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good picture < 1315660628 799756 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315660943 734663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The style of photography is something one should consider carefully before choosing wedding photographers.wedding photographers perth < 1315660958 342357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Individuals are updating their career or they part in games.What ever the cause that retains them logged into Facebook just about every day is what keeps Facebook to advertise your business enterprise.buy facebook fans < 1315660980 129444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1315661254 545849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/forum/ < 1315661255 290499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315661455 517591 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :discount dvd < 1315662422 655648 :sliddy!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315662544 415059 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315662998 755119 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored so I'm going to try and implement as many sorting algorithms as I can. < 1315663017 137716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315663058 129859 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...IN WHATEVER LANGUAGE TAKES MY FANCY < 1315663188 536512 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1315663679 953238 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicksort in Python: complete < 1315663817 486749 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Quicksort in Befunge-93: http://web.archive.org/web/20060218220434/http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/qsort.html < 1315664312 355676 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1315664314 148662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1315664528 282258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315664532 394304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315664639 54534 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1315664968 385456 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-237-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315664968 545646 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-237-127.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1315664968 545870 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1315665171 584919 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315665268 540523 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315665418 770700 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1315665462 843192 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315665486 804152 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1315665488 707400 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315665876 567532 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1315666474 948668 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may take an IO-less language and, most annoyingly, DEFINE IO FOR IT < 1315667077 662580 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315667657 254616 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315667763 877445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intelligent Design Sort in Jot: < 1315668955 831748 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR GOD, PLEASE SORT THIS FOR ME. KTHX < 1315668964 328349 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorted in O(Jesus) < 1315669052 61725 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/intelligentdesignsort.html < 1315669100 530281 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operates in O(0) time < 1315669496 551594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Piet sine calculator is nearing completion! < 1315669589 611128 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two values which, when divided by eachother, return sin(n degrees) where n is a number inputted < 1315669752 875695 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God what is going on? It feels like @ is coming together. < 1315669912 439053 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, is @ an OS or a filesystem? < 1315669917 97763 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite remember < 1315669958 282086 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have bad memory: I got Shiro and Mycology mixed up < 1315670013 43870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS. < 1315670021 829589 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so < 1315670047 832291 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much software is on by default? < 1315670089 543827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1315670109 977735 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind, let me think about what I meant < 1315670132 691515 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I replace on with installed, does it make any more sense? < 1315670178 587069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1315670201 27343 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it just be a shell, or will it have a GUI, or what? < 1315670201 193290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's... not incoherent, but I'm baffled as to why you'd ask or how I could meaningfully answer it. < 1315670239 911206 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it contains the Best UI Ever, which is primarly designed to be used from a graphical device, yes. But it's certainly not windows-icons-menus-pointers. :p < 1315670263 487414 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when I can install < 1315670271 737736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come back in years < 1315670287 290528 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good, my laptop is getting repaired atm < 1315670359 300557 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will @ software be written primarily? < 1315670427 328823 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In @lang < 1315670448 871637 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a public @lang spec anywhere? < 1315670455 566119 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :-) < 1315670461 197786 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is only slightly better-defined than Feather. < 1315670471 535981 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1315670481 9014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But something is starting to make sense. < 1315670486 189193 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what, yet. < 1315670574 933258 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1785, a Feather derivative will have been about to be created < 1315670700 170248 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Called McGraw < 1315671198 536810 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89E2E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315671215 60113 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315671900 57430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure wish ais was here so i could confirm that my @ thoughts make no sense at all < 1315672197 835409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315672200 73156 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315672699 104856 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315672740 622446 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1315672825 927416 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@dsl-66-115-78-51.bbr0.brdtny.empacc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315673070 88236 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315673900 159984 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315674691 147871 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: So have you been confirming your @ thoughts < 1315674715 776717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ais523 started existing < 1315674725 687646 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315674729 524036 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hasn't deleted one of the spam pages for some reason < 1315674743 149842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a time lag on my RSS feed < 1315674749 253200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's only just appeared there < 1315674802 84938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deletd < 1315674842 162441 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I aim to be the first non-developer user of @. < 1315674856 897266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no non-developer users of @, that's the beauty of it < 1315674879 347528 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound very usable < 1315674884 292882 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any developer users? < 1315674906 780314 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at present. < 1315674995 520314 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "There are no developer users of @" is maybe a more accurate impression. < 1315675008 117621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still inaccurate; that's false dichotomies for you. < 1315675020 689111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I can translate Taneb's sentence as "the first user of @ who didn't originally help to write it" < 1315675055 990122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the first uninteresting number? < 1315675079 312577 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is @? A language? < 1315675088 603276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, there's going to be some point at which it's usable < 1315675090 264444 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. (Answer likely to mislead.) < 1315675098 558867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: a project to create an OS < 1315675101 876788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1315675105 383590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: @ is the embodiment of elliott's hubris. < 1315675111 933264 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ur mom < 1315675114 239099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a placeholder for the name of an OS that there is currently a project to create < 1315675120 685592 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I do not mean that as an insult. < 1315675124 430087 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ur mom < 1315675128 660398 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, hubris is the greatest virtue of a programmer. < 1315675151 70159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I have a very important and interesting question, which came out of the work on Feather I was doing last night < 1315675156 666881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a large stack of self-interpreters < 1315675170 173171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _worked_ on _Feather_? < 1315675171 359540 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear god < 1315675174 824103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a large stack of self-interpreter such that a stack of self-interps has performance linear in the number of interps in the stack? < 1315675185 239226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, bad client < 1315675187 402606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PATTERN-MATCHER SAYS: eigenratios < 1315675196 558474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I forgot about that < 1315675208 11629 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/2007/11/search-for-phi-holy-golden-ratio.html < 1315675209 426687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentions you :P < 1315675211 394325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I decided that more than anything else, I want an eigenratio 1 < 1315675215 614965 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what platform is @ intended to run on? < 1315675222 428669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for reminding me about that < 1315675229 826271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that post conjectures the minimum is phi < 1315675235 157207 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1315675240 149601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you get 1 in Underload? < 1315675246 347341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Define platform :-) < 1315675249 284344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's cheating :-P < 1315675251 731852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm allowing cheat-interpreters here, by the way < 1315675263 575302 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: platform, n. Platform. < 1315675266 123745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, say, in untyped lambda calculus, I can't see how to do it even with cheating < 1315675270 236328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, I don't mean the ()^ program < 1315675278 427378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean suppose you have a list of character codes < 1315675282 55412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an appropriate format for the language < 1315675284 413148 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have a question. did most of the chatters here learn about lambda calculus in school? < 1315675287 6619 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That's a crap definition < 1315675292 449551 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Do you mean computer architecture? < 1315675297 618301 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Not me < 1315675301 798114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I didn't learn about it in school; I forget where I learnt about it, maybe even here < 1315675307 24447 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No. I have no formal education in CS. < 1315675312 670513 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I guess I mean whether it runs on bare metal or within some other operating system. < 1315675315 624287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I basically understood the concept before learning what it was called, though < 1315675323 454282 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The best operating systems are the operating systems that can only run inside other operating systems.) < 1315675332 294230 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Every operating system should be like that.) < 1315675334 202910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, part of The Beauty of @ is that it can do both. < 1315675340 950475 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I have only the bare start of a formal education in CS at present. < 1315675345 489554 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1315675351 53857 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's essentially defined in terms of a functional abstract machine with a design eyeing towards efficient translation to hardware. < 1315675367 241150 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason you couldn't use the exact same bytes representing the same objectset from both a window of Linux and natively. < 1315675377 871077 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... was it picked up at workplaces? in books? in chatroom like this one? :D < 1315675393 495456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that if @ ever gets used in practice, it'll be from a Linux/Xorg implementation, probably talking to an @ server that might even be running on the bare metal. < 1315675394 155911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet. Oh so much Internet. < 1315675401 114740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in, accessing that server's resources as the primary interface.) < 1315675422 974357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Internet. < 1315675425 532889 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Internet, mainly Wikipedia < 1315675441 303496 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok guys. so nerding out on the internet. :D < 1315675453 286902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a good place to learn basic CS concepts < 1315675459 712292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the esoterically applicable ones < 1315675463 660479 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The basic intention of @ is to be a fully-reflexive, purely functional, imperative-code-free, distributed operating system with a single-level address space (no ram/disk distinction). < 1315675469 573056 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are rather broad strokes, but it's a good summar. < 1315675470 226870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y. < 1315675480 574401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I suppose that what I want isn't really a self-interpreter, but self-compiler < 1315675485 964290 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, my dad did computer science at university < 1315675497 578869 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PATTERN MATCHER SAYS: Maybe you want a specialiser. < 1315675501 546977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in C, you can write a C compiler that compiles into memory, then jump to that memory location (not portably, but whatever) < 1315675505 592374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what's a specialiser, again? < 1315675524 613959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm glad that you're pattern-matching on my Feather discussion, it should help save you from madness < 1315675535 897968 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my psyche is probably too broken since about 2000 to actually learn anything < 1315675543 523880 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, there's going to be some level of it which is aware of a ram/disk distinction, presumably < 1315675547 521896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I decided that call/cc being a primitive is wrong < 1315675558 174658 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a specialiser takes a function (A,B -> C) and A, and returns (B -> C)... the trick being that it evaluates the function partially < 1315675561 152560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can implement it using CPS < 1315675565 514448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah, hmm < 1315675566 679039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it creates a version of that function _specialised_ on its first input argument < 1315675577 641966 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can use a good specialiser to turn an interpreter into an efficient compiler < 1315675578 627927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that is what I want < 1315675586 145210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, interp into compiler is what I want < 1315675587 840947 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the languages of the input and output could be different < 1315675596 219876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, in Haskell, would ($) be a specializer? < 1315675604 790890 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've already linked you to it, likely, but read http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/05/three-projections-of-doctor-futamura.html < 1315675608 826016 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-36.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315675609 886507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but a bad one < 1315675691 539361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of specialisers is that they're optimising < 1315675694 214405 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-242.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315675698 120654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remembered what the concept was when elliott_ explained it < 1315675811 531547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, I see, the idea's that you get a compiler from an interp by specialising a specialiser? that's sneaky < 1315675830 721323 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what a coincidence. That's also the goal of Jath, except Jath is going to be much worse. < 1315675832 754262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sneaky/beautiful/ :P < 1315675843 213967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Have you shaken off the OOP Mind Virus yet? < 1315675852 699076 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread futamura as futurama < 1315675941 794134 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did everyone. < 1315675941 993287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did I, and I only noticed it was wrong when I reached the comments section < 1315675948 234249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the misreading makes any difference to the article < 1315675953 653604 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315676020 916505 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had an idea for an esolang < 1315676022 844239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway, in Underlambda (which actually has I/O), it's trivial to do a metacircular self-interp with eigenratio 1-in-the-limit < 1315676048 867817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want to base Feather on that, it's too complex < 1315676051 840876 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that takes as many bad features from "real" languages < 1315676069 432197 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the physical analogy is breaking down pretty quickly with the section "specializers" < 1315676082 216924 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when analogies start to become non-literal :P < 1315676095 23103 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like waving to a friend from the train < 1315676148 101973 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flaps my arms. < 1315676185 414328 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An action, incedentally, that is also not unlike waving to a friend from the train < 1315676200 403446 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/Kgae; get excited (note: this will not excite you at all but is the culmination of about two days focused effort and counting so far) < 1315676200 563088 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like having a box which has infinite cookies inside < 1315676203 147830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: OK, so I suppose my problem is that I want to write a Feather self-interp that /isn't/ metacircular < 1315676203 945881 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a thing can't exist < 1315676222 483939 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can it? < 1315676224 657937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, not that exciting... < 1315676240 841346 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, though, it's just a boring example as nothing more works right now :D < 1315676250 299292 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1315676256 346248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, so you want to write a feather interp that isn't metacircular < 1315676259 841980 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to physics and maths can we theoretically have a box with infinite cookies inside? < 1315676270 813948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote according to physics and maths can we theoretically have a box with infinite cookies inside? < 1315676272 768586 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :648) according to physics and maths can we theoretically have a box with infinite cookies inside? < 1315676275 701717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know but I hope so < 1315676278 8863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I was doing wrong is trying to implement too large a subset of Feather directly in Scheme < 1315676289 687450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I want to do is implement a very very small subset < 1315676306 404233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a full Feather interp in itself < 1315676321 135338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a full proto-Feather interp in itself < 1315676329 445956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by a sequence of retroactive modifications to make it into a full Feather interp < 1315676338 352294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what Scheme is that? Guile? < 1315676342 368131 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1315676348 686315 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guile two, the new major release. < 1315676351 585539 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1315676353 145249 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 boxes. observing the first box sets the state of the second box to having a cookie inside it. so we proceed to observe the second box and take the cookie. < 1315676380 627276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, my existing plan put the retroactive modification in the Scheme code itself < 1315676388 745067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually very easy to implement in Scheme; it's the only bit that is < 1315676400 851461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thinking about it, Scheme isn't Feather so that wouldn't help anyway < 1315676405 778287 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what inspired you to start thinking about feather, anyway? I thought you had rid yourself of it forever < 1315676425 1202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makes more sense to implement the retroactive modification in Feather itself, same as everything else < 1315676430 729031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was having trouble sleeping last night < 1315676442 445133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just thought "what the hell, I'll think about Feather" < 1315676444 105281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expected feather to /help/? < 1315676449 536664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then put on the background music from Adanaxis < 1315676458 155971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started coding < 1315676484 116815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I didn't hit many major hitches; I decided that the general approach of what I was doing was right but the details were wrong < 1315676487 419102 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For someone who disavows the use of all mind-altering substances, your conscious decision to think about Feather in lieu of having anything better to do resembles it somewhat to me :P < 1315676506 319301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I think I've definitively overcome the first major hurdle (the infinite regress of the definition of atoms) < 1315676508 287976 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Feather: my anti-drug." < 1315676517 391162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: anti-drug has more side-effects than drug. < 1315676524 112746 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: woot < 1315676590 738395 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can I blab about my @thoughts now? :D < 1315676595 480987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, feel free < 1315676615 729703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the likelihood you'll pay attention? :P < 1315676615 926492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, what I'd want is for someone to come up with an untyped lambda calculus self-interp at eigenratio 1 < 1315676619 641729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems unlikely < 1315676622 497562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: pretty low, to be fair < 1315676630 409975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I paid attention to the Featherthoughts :( < 1315676644 65823 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1315676644 558419 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: eh, objects seem... potentially useful. < 1315676655 124357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you're right, @ will be so much better :) < 1315676699 945368 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1315676700 698711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315676702 764696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/:/ < 1315676711 303899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eigenratio 1? < 1315676739 397107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hypothesis: any interpreter with eigenratio one is a compiler < 1315676749 345911 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, is a compiler+execute < 1315676763 844935 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, its intrusion on control flow will _always_ increase the eigenratio beyond this. < 1315676771 815520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315676780 644471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile+execute is pretty much exactly what I want, for that reason < 1315676790 784435 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the compiler has to output into the language itself, and so merely be id... < 1315676799 947902 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can compile into a VM then execute that VM without adding overhead < 1315676816 89931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a self-interp that puts an overhead on the language that's proportional to the size of the input program, not how long the program takes to execute < 1315676872 48387 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK SO @THOUGHTS < 1315676875 408770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, suppose you have a concatenative language, and your input is a list of characters; for each character, you look up in a lookup table what it should compile to, then compose, then execute < 1315676879 68949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: compiling noms < 1315676910 904876 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that by introducing certain things that /look/ like side-effects into the (FRP-based) language, you can /reinterpret/ the resulting semantics as having no side effects, and this leads directly to an efficient interpretation strategy < 1315676924 962043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance < 1315676953 428676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP equals, here? < 1315676957 430940 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional reactive programming < 1315676959 228108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind is translating it as "functional reactive programming" < 1315676963 292319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, brief introduction < 1315676966 575672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I thought that couldn't possibly be what you meant < 1315676967 173935 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Signal a = Time -> a < 1315676970 173471 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Events a = [(Time,a)] < 1315676979 1722 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the "model' for FRP but it doesnt match the sematnics exactly < 1315676982 843989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it is, I was forced to learn about it last week < 1315676984 831912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the basic core of the idea < 1315676985 939985 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1315676988 203832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1315676991 562351 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1315676998 430265 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so consider httpSimpleGetAttempts :: URL -> Events (Either HTTPError HTTPResponse) < 1315677003 470242 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what text editor do you use for your code < 1315677016 692027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: stop interrupting @thoughts, they're a sacred tradition < 1315677018 223690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: usually but not always Emacs < 1315677021 98380 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SACRED < 1315677029 547107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for short programs I often use cat < 1315677034 211216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then nano to fix typos < 1315677036 438704 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so do i < 1315677038 275623 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on the face of it, this is totally impure: if you didn't call it and try and use the resulting Events, the OS would make no attempt to contact the server, make an HTTP request, etc. < 1315677041 111145 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right? < 1315677051 398116 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a small wrapper around cat that works as a write-only text editor < 1315677059 482048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: trying to get my head around it atm < 1315677072 938250 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point is that it's not referentially transparent < 1315677074 347100 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/cheater/cated < 1315677083 105344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you use it or not affects whether the computer decides to perform a side-effect (try and talk to an http server) < 1315677088 814248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the /definition/ of impurity < 1315677097 865957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "it" equal there? < 1315677110 319054 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(httpSimpleGetAttempts x) for some x < 1315677123 4657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1315677126 682433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so calling it has side-effects < 1315677135 345089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not necessarily calling it, but trying to inspect its argument < 1315677136 492862 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1315677137 904888 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll elaborate < 1315677171 343832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, the idea is to consider that it represents a simple, objective, immutable fact: all attempts the computer has made to request that URL; semantically, it causes no request to be made < 1315677179 996746 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem being, how do you actually cause a request to be made? < 1315677186 463706 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this is the implementation strategy < 1315677197 672517 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS finds out every event or signal value the code is interested in < 1315677200 596964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tries to "make them happen" < 1315677208 279142 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a keyboard input, that'd be listening to the keyboard and routing the events in < 1315677220 792918 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an HTTP request, it'd be contacting the server and trying to request it < 1315677223 343938 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-1.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i think i will give it readline support too, that will make it even cooler. i like to use it for commit messages because it's simple to just enter your msg and either press ctrl-c or ctrl-d at the end. < 1315677233 131377 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in this way, we turn the impurity into an implementation detail < 1315677269 776177 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and interestingly, this becomes the entire way for side-effects to happen < 1315677275 70789 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by being interested in them < 1315677288 801700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh, I came to a similar conclusion with Feather < 1315677291 997456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just say "if this happens, then ..." < 1315677298 418442 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the computer goes "OK, you're interested in that happening" < 1315677303 927038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and registers the event and all that < 1315677315 428084 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's something like an http request, well, that's implemented so that interest causes the side-effect < 1315677328 245505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure this will actually work but MAYBE IT WILL < 1315677334 297010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it'll actually work either < 1315677345 591587 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same about Feather < 1315677350 239392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315677383 65302 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, I think I've managed to reduce my idea of this section of Feather so that I can implement a simple demo OS with a minimal amount of platform code (posix/sdl, or raw pc hardware, etc.) + a small amount of portable code < 1315677389 860610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean @, right? < 1315677392 425527 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... that's the plan < 1315677393 119021 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1315677393 388505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315677394 604787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oops) < 1315677395 468708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh dear) < 1315677402 841359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very oh dear mistake < 1315677690 528913 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather AKA @ AKA Secret Project < 1315677713 401805 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other two are offended by the comparison to the secret project < 1315677719 840445 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is the secret project, it doesn't wish to be associated with such lunatics < 1315678013 602391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the secret project is much saner than Feather < 1315678019 745452 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315678025 844112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its main distinguishing feature is being secret < 1315678051 818262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can I see your WIP Feather interp? Just curious < 1315678065 797236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't see why not, although disclaimer that I'm going to rewrite it < 1315678083 197315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly in a different langauge, because call/cc support isn't needed if I'm not going to metacircular that < 1315678084 662470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's modified from previously, right? < 1315678094 652912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskellashekaslehkleklelahkselellashekll < 1315678107 627592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :visualbasic2005 < 1315678135 755216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TPWh?scheme < 1315678138 759778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it is, slightly at least < 1315678154 893544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all I've done since is just to add a few more Church encodings < 1315678165 239914 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Visual Basic is actually Turing-complete < 1315678198 582685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when trying to work out whether integers should share I realised "it doesn't matter", and realised that I was trying to do too much of the interpreting in Scheme < 1315678207 334915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose having the Scheme interp will still help for when I translate it into Feather < 1315678249 707979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I know I'm really bad at Scheme, don't laugh at it < 1315678269 286189 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet: Feather will end up having a beautifully simple, elegant implementation, and then end up equivalent to some really everyday concept like lazy evaluation or mutual recursion < 1315678271 586870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than anything retroactive < 1315678298 472604 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUESTION < 1315678315 252878 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In feather, when you change the past, does the present continue? < 1315678326 573077 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the old past < 1315678511 850615 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1315678758 306108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, hmm, how can I answer that if Taneb isn't here? < 1315678787 740100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it goes back to that point in the past and recalculates in there < 1315678796 33596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the present ever rehappens depends on what you changed < 1315678885 642052 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric : er, hmm, how can I answer that if Taneb isn't here? < 1315678886 727559 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroactively < 1315678912 315225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather's time-travel model is certainly sane and self-consistent, at least < 1315679145 494349 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1315679210 506261 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you have clearly not thought even the slighest bit about Feather :) < 1315679606 108951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and you probably want to stay that way :) < 1315680485 934210 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315680538 161053 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must say i regret not being schooled at a school where they can cane your fingers < 1315680553 327253 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1315680554 518898 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds more exciting < 1315680564 134371 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more character building < 1315680596 95608 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :students still hate teachers these days... and it makes no difference it seems whether caning is involved < 1315680610 559421 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315680614 145185 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now thugs abound < 1315680614 708461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315680632 419741 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 year olds with shopping trolley poles roam the streets < 1315680651 82831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this avant garde poetry < 1315680662 229475 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its what i actually heard < 1315680709 899945 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shopping trolleys you see.. you can remove the part which you hold onto when pushing it.. and it becomes a small lightweight baton < 1315680741 556982 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all you have to do is take a shopping trolley away from the store and get the baton part off it < 1315680758 415584 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have some 10 year olds armed and dangerous < 1315680799 414949 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the full story of course < 1315680974 213895 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315681549 409513 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315681585 643128 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would have been the answer to the question I asked before I left? < 1315681811 119267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: a retroactive change goes back to when the thing you retroactively changed was set < 1315681815 72761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes it, then reruns from there < 1315681820 573703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the present happens again depends on what the change was < 1315682010 651695 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i am ready to give up on this ridiculous piece of code, so i will post what it is: http://codepad.org/AvNFIw0g < 1315682046 641516 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-217.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315682430 164757 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315682980 832888 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315682981 137765 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1315682981 297022 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1315683183 14053 :ive!~nn@189.179.241.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315684062 131542 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1315684102 373314 :variable!~thing@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1315684200 661458 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, so, just looking at init and insert, the array_size is stored right at the end of all the actual data < 1315684215 690943 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And array[0] stores the next available index < 1315684217 611756 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ive been hacking it up a bit more since last post < 1315684230 816286 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315684248 71667 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a terrible mess here: http://codepad.org/meXjY5Eo < 1315684250 398084 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a clear, readable diagram of what's what would be clearer < 1315684280 935975 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just started working on this getindex function but i dont think i remembered exactly what its supposed to do < 1315684293 774286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note you're still not doing bounds checking. Not that that's bad, but I'm wondering what the point of storing array_size is < 1315684329 558684 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i updated it to use allocation at least < 1315684353 430125 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its such a ridiculous piece of code < 1315684369 26545 :sliddy!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315684678 964671 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: basically my poor methodologies as a coder are being revealed < 1315684691 661054 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1315684693 232439 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<,< < 1315684711 316432 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I can barely type <.< < 1315684729 472703 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Becuase I'm so used to >.>, that my finger wants to stay on the same key when typing <,< < 1315684768 486871 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variable names a and b soon become kaleidoscopic < 1315684802 314322 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i possibly didn't design the code properly ^_^;; < 1315684808 561412 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at all ^^;; < 1315685588 345839 :variable!~thing@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1315685622 975638 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315685828 144892 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to map a bit string to a BF Joust program with matching loops? < 1315685927 197659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust programs are a countable set, so yes. < 1315685932 191600 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C7F5.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315685951 481842 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is there a way that someone can tell me? < 1315686048 780464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a trivially derivable procedure. You could modify bifro, which is a silly, stupid program I wrote to do it a year ago. < 1315686075 21966 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a rather long discussion, that brainfuck-to-naturals bijection. < 1315686087 970243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't produce much useful, either. < 1315686103 878262 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link on bf page doesn't work < 1315686117 617436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lost forever then < 1315686125 198268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could reconstruct from logs :) < 1315686385 363948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the pastie.org links on the corresponding log are dead. :/ :\ < 1315686400 769381 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in 2010-05-03 anyhow. < 1315686455 262374 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [bifro] has rekindled my love affair with Haskell. < 1315686479 724204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastie.org died ages ago. < 1315686483 873385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, all the pastes. < 1315686488 464965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably aren't coming back. < 1315686491 473967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying but OH < 1315686492 325062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL < 1315686508 629079 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wayback machine is down < 1315686520 374113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Really though, it's not hard to write a bijection. 0-n for all the non-arg instructions, then add on n to the loop case... blah blah. < 1315686532 138893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only hard part is reducing n of them to one of them in a way that doesn't lead to massive blowup < 1315686533 454271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uhhh < 1315686535 100990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for that < 1315686537 752760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on your own :P < 1315686543 18277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't find anything satisfactory < 1315686543 509767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1315686547 717346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck anyway < 1315686663 339722 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for nested loops; one version of your bifro produced 63 for [], 590295810358705651711 for [[]], and broke down and cried for [[[]]]. < 1315686684 524157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315686779 789456 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, especially for sgeo, this is another update: http://codepad.org/XPWd2WBX < 1315686819 632882 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want to enumerate them all, though, it is probably relatively speaking easier to write a piece of code that generates all legal brainfuck programs e.g. sorted by program length, as long as you don't need the "can be given an arbitrary number/program and must efficiently return the matching program/number without enumerating the whole set" function. < 1315686915 786633 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315686993 367300 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is perhaps even more clear: http://codepad.org/aXHMoksZ < 1315687429 757877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315687923 946384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust evolutionary programming is probably better done via assembling strategy fragments < 1315687941 17274 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm mad < 1315687941 509655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, deciding on the decoy pattern and setup sequence, deciding on the clear loop, deciding whether it defends first or rushes first, etc < 1315687986 399752 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders. < 1315688026 796768 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a game like rock paper scissors or coin tossing or penny matching there is no perfect play. < 1315688048 934649 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is to be truely random < 1315688081 126273 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1315688110 300168 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, with a programming battle game i imagine that what constitutes a perfect play depends entirely on what strategy the opponent chooses < 1315688483 619451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, channel, want something to rage at? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/k9cbj/trollscript_an_esoteric_dialect_of_brainfuck/ < 1315688600 912390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we raged at every brainfuck derivative out there we would have no time for Dwarf Fortress succession games < 1315688709 196932 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw that language yesterday; died < 1315690221 766256 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my BF derivative at least a little not idiotic? < 1315690474 681127 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have added some even more ideas to my structure... but it still doesn't have the essence yet of a real data structure.. still missing the vast majority of it's functionality: http://codepad.org/ZWaHYvHz < 1315690961 883218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, on that subject are you competent to pull levers and move troops. < 1315691000 833925 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert is O(1). In del_cell(), don't call getindex() twice, this isn't Haskell. < 1315691002 334810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my faith in /r/programming is vastly increased by the fact that they hated it too. < 1315691003 655034 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has more to say < 1315691011 513519 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315691012 335217 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The former but I have a bit to go for the latter < 1315691028 243157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that might be a premature optimization *shrug* < 1315691034 932111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1315691037 571505 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-244.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1315691037 932822 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well insert is not really done yeah... < 1315691056 345588 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit concerned about all the calling of getindex2 in getindex, but I need to see what getindex does before commenting further < 1315691069 734798 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres a cleaner version: http://codepad.org/p4r3O9Ep < 1315691084 289815 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much cleaner though.. just cleaned up main < 1315691107 350387 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't going to switch right now < 1315691127 610118 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo yes i have already asked for too much attention over this < 1315691156 960975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, getindex2() finds something, and says how many filled-in spots are before it? < 1315691178 579258 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bit confused < 1315691202 743337 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89E2E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315691239 666559 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only figured out what it did by looking at what it did in testing... and forcing myself to use it < 1315691286 675875 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there is 2 sets of indices... the indices which i calloc'd .. and the indices of the actual data items < 1315691312 683937 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets bored and wanders away < 1315691389 157172 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@dsl-66-115-78-51.bbr0.brdtny.empacc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315691432 298107 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your input. i started counting how many codepad pastes i was making lately and realized i am starting to subtly become an asshole over it < 1315691483 281147 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, switch to gist.github.com ? < 1315691497 335357 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that won't run code for you < 1315691528 110406 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean i have singled you out for this topic and that is not cool.. its as bad as private messaging < 1315691555 574150 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may as well be sending sms about it >:-) < 1315691559 294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I probably should have said something < 1315691582 914160 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :gurbles < 1315691586 513137 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1315691599 440575 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shouldn't have addressed it all at you though. < 1315691614 347061 :gurbles!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :grubIes < 1315691625 951101 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shouldnt really be updating a room with codepad every 5 mins either < 1315691647 145424 :grubIes!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1315691747 922800 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you mean about del_cell now < 1315692144 517130 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It was a rather long discussion, that brainfuck-to-naturals bijection." <<< yeah, there are many steps, first you have to list brainfuck programs in lexicographical order, then you have to do nothing else, then you have to be done. < 1315692261 468764 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is even a logspace computation, if i'm not mistaken, so you can do it in O(n) time < 1315692284 545819 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code is absolutely a monstrosity... its even worse than a linked list < 1315692288 797165 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, that may be complete < 1315692292 743492 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1315692468 547027 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i dunno how fast it is, except that since the set of bf programs is context-free, there's prolly a polynomial time bijection between numbers (in binary) and bfs < 1315692607 343273 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ask someone at the uni on monday, dunno what to search for really < 1315692763 210274 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if lengths of n and the length of the nth string are related polynomially, maybe there's a general algo for the bijections, then again on second thought there prolly isn't < 1315692772 785589 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nth string in the grammar i mean < 1315692806 986204 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously if they aren't polynomially related you can't do it, since just printing the out is superpolynomial < 1315692863 410910 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315693042 540364 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :would certainly be interesting to research this, but it's prolly known to death < 1315693154 689051 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally realized that my whole idea is pointless since arrays have never been difficult to delete from, only difficult to insert into < 1315693193 250250 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315693203 419748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315693204 904328 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you delete from an array? well i guess i know what you mean < 1315693216 795798 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres 2 ways < 1315693237 840204 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 way is to have a deleted state for each cell of the array which can be toggled < 1315693238 225651 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :store the index of next valid and previous valid is one i suppose < 1315693264 307742 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't index anymore so it's a bit stupid < 1315693275 447324 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your way, you can't even iterate < 1315693284 733122 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my way, you at least have a linked list < 1315693306 260605 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the other one < 1315693370 697742 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can't iterate in amortized constant time w.r.t. current size of array < 1315693395 512452 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is just some ridiculous thing like next valid yeah < 1315693423 57939 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :next valid and last valid, yeah, that lets you iterate < 1315693435 672178 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i didn't do next valid and last valid < 1315693443 20465 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :next valid also lets you iterate, but then deletion is not constant time < 1315693447 785031 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's linear < 1315693449 19992 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to abandon this code altogether.... < 1315693454 278650 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will show you it < 1315693462 761463 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/mre22niv < 1315693467 173632 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might as well just move all the elements < 1315693489 320625 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you have indexing again < 1315693514 302026 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C7F5.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214] < 1315693518 662252 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really a hopeless mess... and it was nowhere near complete < 1315693546 331237 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally i came to my senses and realized its not even going to help the insert problem < 1315693579 965097 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get del_range < 1315693591 639981 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it deletes from 2 to 3 :)) < 1315693597 173699 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the example < 1315693662 831704 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very absurd code.. one might almost say obfuscated < 1315693666 697915 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i dunno what array actually contains < 1315693680 177294 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :values + blanks? < 1315693687 57556 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 is length < 1315693712 495494 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains run lengths and next valids < 1315693726 26394 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the insert and delete code wasn't finished either < 1315693766 718601 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make sure deletion doesn't make next valid pointers invalid < 1315693783 562800 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not done :P < 1315693789 999241 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1315693795 826333 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do it in constant time < 1315693798 850434 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmmmm < 1315693806 57482 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just next valid pointers < 1315693830 51705 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's linear < 1315693848 579902 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :same complexity as the usual deletion where you shift everything < 1315693850 338811 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very incomplete.. im just glad i finally realized how useless it is < 1315693915 230967 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in another chat said linked list is better than arrays for deletion.. so i was tempted to challenge the idea by working on it < 1315693936 257001 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone does that at one point or another i suppose < 1315693944 67173 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a dead end < 1315693985 540646 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite, but i think the only solutions have a logarithic stack of arrays simulating a tree < 1315694004 476560 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask for details, my data structure days are long gone < 1315694015 228179 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315694038 487809 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :trees are really the only way to get indexing, deletion and insertion fast at the same time < 1315694057 91642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315694099 129513 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get log n for everything < 1315694128 643701 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly amortized, since you need to balance the tree a bit every now and then < 1315694257 395037 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays have constant indexing, linear deletion and insertion, lists have those swapped (if the latter two operations are done with pointers), and trees get log n for all, it's and interesting trade-off, really < 1315694429 573477 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for how to actually do the tree stuff, i suppose you could store, at every child, how big the tree is under it, let's call it "size info". then, balancing only requires a logarithmic change (each flip needs only local size info changes), insertion and deletion only change size info on the path from node to root, and indexing is obviously logtime if the tree is balanced < 1315694473 710333 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you know, say, roughly how red-black trees work < 1315694475 247938 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i certainly don't "need" rapid deletion or insertion for anything. it was just the naive exploration of the array :D < 1315694515 449109 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :naive exploration is fun but there's a rich theory you should look into first, your ideas will become richer as wekk. < 1315694518 112769 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1315694545 414261 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another idea which occured to me is a series of hops between deleted cells < 1315694557 139089 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuzzat < 1315694571 139817 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell 0 would contain an index of the first deleted cell < 1315694591 581197 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first would contain an index of the second and so forth < 1315694607 260977 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, linear deletion < 1315694611 752998 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1315694620 776925 :itidus20!~itidus20@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would kill off the indexing < 1315694640 140122 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. there's no known solution, you should give up :P < 1315695938 983183 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1315696532 436530 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315696734 17363 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315697069 290183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1315698302 437815 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315698967 463370 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric