00:16:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:22:03 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:25:14 -!- variable has joined. 00:26:17 OK esonauts, make some terrible jokes regarding the fallacy/phallus/fellatio punfecta. 00:26:33 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 00:28:43 what do you think we are, cunning linguists? 00:30:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/jya5h/gmailcom_being_mitmd_by_iran_using_this/ 00:31:51 (links to http://pastebin.com/ff7Yg663) 00:32:33 -!- azaq23 has joined. 00:33:25 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:36:13 -!- variable has joined. 00:43:02 I compiled a Haskell program that has foreign export, it made up a C program file with StgClosure and Capability and rts_checkSchedStatus and some other stuff that I don't know. 00:45:31 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:48:30 Once I was trying to fill a comment that had a CAPTCHA. If I typed in "Anonymous" as the name, it always said the CAPTCHA was wrong. I tried it ten times it didn't work so I changed the name to "A. Nonymous" and then it worked OK 00:48:54 (It didn't say anything about the name being wrong; it said the CAPTCHA was wrong.) 00:49:29 What kind of stuff is that? 00:50:03 bad stuff. 00:50:45 Why does it do that? 00:51:38 maybe someone doesn't want anonymous posts, and made a mistake in the code so it doesn't give a different error message 00:52:05 stupid, anyhow 01:53:54 HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY 01:54:00 I didn't even notice the reference in the topic. 01:54:21 IT IS THE NINETIES, AND THERE IS TIME FOR FINNKLAX 01:58:07 I can't decide whether cranking up the reverb to 2 bounces is actually improving the audio, or I'm just jacking off to reverb. 02:03:11 Gregor: if you cannot tell the difference, you're in risk of committing a phallus fallacy. 02:03:44 -!- variable has joined. 02:03:51 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 02:03:51 -!- variable has joined. 02:04:07 oerjan: BA-DUM 02:07:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:07:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:26:24 -!- jcp|1 has joined. 02:26:59 -!- jcp|other has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:28:16 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:31:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:33:07 -!- jcp has joined. 02:34:15 -!- jcp|1 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:36:24 -!- jcp|other has joined. 02:38:05 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:50:52 -!- jcp has joined. 03:02:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:11:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:12:15 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:48:09 -!- evincar has joined. 03:56:23 Has anyone read this before? http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7824830mp13171x/ 03:56:42 -!- GuestIceKovu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:56:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:56:47 !@#$ costing money 03:59:04 haha 03:59:08 <3 university 04:04:16 "The Kerr metric, which describes empty spacetime around a rotating black hole, possesses these features: a computer can orbit the black hole indefinitely, while an observer falling into the black hole experiences an M-H event as they cross the inner event horizon. (This, however, neglects the effects of Black Hole Evaporation.)" 04:04:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malament-Hogarth_spacetime 04:04:38 Ooh, so if I'm willing to fall into a black hole, I can solve the halting problem for turing machines 04:07:02 Can't a human determine whether a program can halt? 04:07:09 Not whether it does. 04:07:12 But whether it can. 04:07:36 If so, is there an algorithm for that? 04:07:57 What does "whether it can" even mean? 04:07:58 Because if we can do it, I presume some equivalent finite machine can. 04:08:23 I dunno, barring all else, while(true){} can't halt. 04:08:34 But while(random()!=k){} can. 04:08:55 I don't think impure stuff is part of traditional turing machines 04:10:54 evincar: The only way to be sure is to run the machine over every possible input 04:12:36 coppro: Not really. A human's insight can often discern patterns that lead to discovery of the particular inputs for which the program does and does not halt. 04:12:59 Perhaps not always, but of course we're not infinitely intelligent either. 04:13:06 We're just very good at pattern recognition. 04:15:14 evincar: Yes, but pattern recognition is huristic 04:19:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 04:22:18 evincar: i think the collatz functions i recently learned about and put on the wiki are a counterexample where it's undecidable whether _any_ inputs don't halt. (the collatz problem itself is unsolved, but the paper i put as a link is iirc about showing that there are better examples) 04:23:04 (where better = some of them are definitely undecidable) 04:23:13 *iiuc 04:23:43 That's true. I guess humans can't always get it. 04:23:47 hm that's the reverse problem though. but i'd be surprised if what you said was solvable. 04:23:55 But I didn't say "does halt". 04:23:56 I said "can". 04:24:08 And obviously Collatz can halt for some inputs. 04:24:20 yes. 04:25:05 So is there a case where the reverse is true, where every input we've tried hasn't halted but we're not sure there's no input that does? 04:25:24 mind you there's only a difference if there are inputs 04:27:10 hm there's that unambiguous parsing problem, which is undecidable, i think you can make that into an example. 04:27:58 given a context-free grammar, search for a string which has two different parsings. 04:28:07 halt once you find one. 04:28:34 hm wait what are the inputs 04:29:39 The input is presumably the grammar. 04:29:52 :P 04:30:24 that doesn't work since there are clearly some grammars that make this halt 04:30:32 So there's no algorithm for finding ambiguities in grammars? 04:30:46 A general one, of course. 04:30:55 not if you want it to halt if there aren't any 04:31:12 Interesting. 04:31:30 I always found it odd that analytical problems of that sort can be unhalting. 04:31:48 It's sort of unintuitive that a finite input can represent infinite computation. 04:32:23 But at the same time obvious, if you've ever programmed anything. 04:32:55 What's even more odd is the class of programs that are designed not to halt. 04:33:08 Telephony systems, aircraft controllers, that sort of thing. 04:33:59 evincar: Any turing machine that we have never proven halts or does not halt on any input satisfies your criterion 04:34:39 True. 04:34:50 Humans are only so good. 04:35:01 But of course, we're finite. 04:35:09 Even if we're beautifully complex. 04:35:35 I guess the notion of "does not halt" for a human is "gives up or dies after a while". 04:36:58 evincar: iirc the proof for those ambiguous grammars is by constructing from a turing machine a grammar where a string with two parsings describes the history of the computation of the tm, and only exists if it halts. 04:37:39 Interesting construction. 04:38:13 So lately I've been thinking about iterators. 04:38:18 Pulling a Stepanov pretty much. 04:38:49 I feel like they're a good model for pretty much any lazy computation. 04:39:08 But of course C++ is awful and it's difficult to test the ideas I've been having. 04:39:21 Then why use C++? 04:39:22 evincar: um, what about cyclic lazy structures 04:39:35 > let l = 1:2:l in l 04:39:36 [1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,... 04:39:40 oerjan: You have a cyclic iterator? 04:40:00 They're not really "traditional", but meh. 04:40:21 i'm thinking about the data sharing, here 04:40:35 Could you elaborate? 04:41:07 that l in haskell evaluates to just a cyclic linked list with two elements 04:42:32 oh a better thing that would be hard with iterators is tying-the-knot constructions 04:42:46 technically l there is one, but very simple 04:43:31 Yeah, a cyclic list isn't hard. You can make a cyclic_iterator just like you did there, with a cons_iterator and a reference. 04:44:26 ah, the mccarthy 91 function 04:44:31 In fact, I think it'd be simpler if you just had a cyclic_iterator use a buffer_iterator internally (which ordinarily would adapt a forward iterator into a bidirectional one). 04:45:26 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:46:02 > let m = [m !! (m !! (n + 11)) | n <- [0..100]] ++ [91 ..] in m 04:46:03 [91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91... 04:47:46 What am I looking at here? 04:48:10 the 99 function 04:48:13 91 function 04:48:15 a lazy list giving the values for the McCarthy 91 function 04:48:16 mccarthy f91 04:49:12 and the calculation jumps back and forth, so an iterator is ... not so useful. 04:49:27 it's a pain to implement in most proof languages 04:49:39 because it doesn't obviously terminate 04:49:46 heh 04:50:37 Interesting. I'll have to think about it. 04:51:25 evincar: i think maybe iterators are good for the kind of lazy list computations that "fuse" in the sense of ghc's optimizations 04:53:23 I think you're right... 04:53:25 "Donald Knuth generalized the 91 function to include additional parameters. John Cowles developed a formal proof that Knuth's generalized function was total, using the ACL2 theorem prover." 04:53:51 ...so like, general backtracking computation over a sequence? 04:56:42 > let m = [m !! (m !! (n + 11)) | n <- [0..100]] ++ [91 ..] in dropWhile ((==91).snd) . zip [0..] $ m 04:56:43 [(102,92),(103,93),(104,94),(105,95),(106,96),(107,97),(108,98),(109,99),(1... 04:57:14 would be a lot more efficient with a memo trie 04:59:03 Okay, so there has to be some means of general recursion, and I'm not sure how to get that without special-casing it. 04:59:18 Sure, you could consider a "recurse_tag" some kind of axiom. 04:59:27 But it would seem cleaner to have a "Y combinator" of iterators. 04:59:36 Though I'm not sure what that would be. 04:59:49 evincar: hm that reminds me of the difference between general and primitive recursion 05:00:09 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:02:17 Actually, I'm looking at this wrong. 05:02:25 Higher-order iterators are easy. 05:02:39 They already have access to the iterators they're receiving. 05:02:49 Dereferencing them is what forces values. 05:03:50 So you could write a Y iterator that just returns an iterator constructed from the type given as its input. 05:04:30 It'd be a literal translation of \f.(\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x)). 05:05:15 I play Pokemon card. I managed to win even though they had only one side card remaining I had five, I just needed to survive for eight turns. But it helped because I had cards with a lot of hit points, as well as SWITCH and GUST OF WIND, guessing what card opponent has in their hand (they don't know how to bluff very well), and the prophecy defense. I picked up one card without a lot of hit points but did not play it in case opponent has GUST O 05:06:32 The last card in their deck was a water energy (which could be used for retreat), but I calculated everything ahead of time to ensure that if they were able to do that, they still would not be able to do enough damage to knock out my active pokemon. 05:07:02 I never played the game...I was always more into Magic myself. 05:07:20 Though I only collected Pokémon cards, and never built a Magic deck. 05:07:42 I play Magic: the Gathering cards too. But I also like to play Pokemon card. I do not own any cards; I always borrow cards. 05:08:41 I do have a few Magic: the Gathering cards, which are the ones I drafted. But I am never going to use them because if I go to a tournament I get new cards every time. 05:14:49 In the game of Pokemon card (I use old style rules), there is a lot of tactical options and strategy; like chess the game is 90% tactics but there is long term strategy. You also have to know defense; I have the book "Art of Defense in Chess" and really in other game there are similar defensive themes. 05:15:02 Ooh, just had a thought about the iterator thing. 05:15:14 You can model general loops as cyclic iterators and compositions of them. 05:15:34 So you could have a game-loop-iterator(event-processing-iterator, rendering-iterator). 05:16:30 And the game-loop-iterator models an abstract spiral data structure that ends when the game events end. 05:16:40 I have made up a new format of Pokemon card: All the cards in the deck other than basic energy cards are decided at random. And then, you can trade up to five of those cards for an equal number of new random cards. You can put basic energy cards yourself. In addition, you can play any evolution card as long as it is either the correct one (by name), *or* the following conditions all apply: 05:17:45 * It has the same energy type as the card it is being played on. * It is the correct stage (such as stage 1 on basic, or stage 2 on stage 1). * All the lower stage cards in the stack you are playing it on have a proper evolution card of the stage you are playing. 05:18:56 (For example, it is permitted to play WARTORTLE on SEEL but you could not play BLASTOISE on top of that because SEEL does not go up to stage 2.) 05:20:20 zzo38: So you just have to remember which cards have evolutions? Or is it on the cards themselves? (I forget.) 05:20:48 (Some cards (such as EEVEE) have evolution cards of different energy types; such evolutions can still be played. However, you could not play any fire type evolution card on EEVEE. You could however, play DRAGONAIR but not continue it to DRAGONITE.) 05:20:56 I remember SEEL → DEWGONG but the newer generation eludes me. 05:21:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:21:09 I haven't really paid attention to Pokémon since 2nd generation. 05:21:40 evincar: The evolution cards do say what card you play it on top of. Other than that it does not say; but I can remember. I am only playing the first generation cards anyways, with the exception of LUGIA which has no evolution cards anyways. 05:23:01 The POKEMON BREEDER card does require you to know which stage 2 card matches which basic pokemon card even though the card does not say. However, if you limit yourself to first generation pokemon cards, you can tell which stage 2 card matches by the pokemon number (for example, the stage 2 card #6 (CHARIZARD) matches basic pokemon card #4 (CHARMANDER)). 05:24:04 That's true, I hadn't thought of that. 05:25:42 Yes; if and only if you are playing first generation only, the function of the POKEMON BREEDER card does not use any information that is not printed on the relevant cards themselves. 05:25:51 So I may have come up with a general way of nicely expressing lazy computation in an eager, imperative language. 05:26:13 Which is nice because it also implies a nice way of compiling lazy languages into eager ones. 05:26:38 I'm going to have to explore this... 05:27:00 ...and probably make some intermediate language that compiles to C++ so I don't drive myself insane. 05:27:22 C++ has ubiquity on its side, at least, as a target language. 05:27:23 Can you use LLVM instead? 05:27:31 I would ordinarily. 05:27:32 compile to c-- instead 05:28:06 But I think it'd be easier to target a slightly higher-level language where iterators make sense. 05:28:15 If only as a proof of concept. 05:28:53 wait, you're using C++ so you *don't* drive yourself insane? 05:30:12 I would like to program LLVM with the macros of BLISS and the literate programming of WEB. 05:31:01 That would be, to me, almost an ideal programming language for the level and other kind of thing which is C is being used. 05:31:01 kmc: No, I'd be writing an intermediate language so I don't drive myself insane using C++ directly. 05:31:29 At the very least, some kind of preprocessor. 05:31:32 LLVM is far better designed than C, in my opinion. 05:31:35 targeting c++ sounds hilarious 05:32:06 zzo38: I would like to see a high-level assembly based on LLVM, similar in some respects to C. 05:32:17 I remember FASM has nice macros...perhaps something like that. 05:32:58 monqy: I basically just need a language that's good for generic programming. 05:33:20 evincar: what 05:33:23 aahhahaha 05:33:26 Is there anything else out there that's relatively low-level but also good at generic things? 05:33:38 Because I would use that. 05:33:39 Do you know the macro system of BLISS? Now combine the BLISS macros with the metamacros of Enhanced CWEB, and the ability to run code at compile time (Enhanced CWEB allows it in @{ ... @} blocks, while Template Haskell allows it in $( ... ) blocks). 05:33:41 it'd be easier and better to do all the generic stuff yourself than target c++ 05:33:44 to do the generic stuff 05:33:47 are you crazy 05:34:07 What kind of high level assembly based on LLVM and similar to C? What kind of ideas do you have about it? 05:35:15 zzo38: Something based on a system like this: http://flatassembler.net/docs.php?article=manual#2.3.3 05:35:37 Where macros are introduced that build on one another to provide a high-level interface to the LLVM instructions. 05:36:56 monqy: What do you mean, "do it myself"? Write an interpreter/compiler? 05:37:25 aren't you doing that already? 05:37:30 compiling your language to c++? 05:38:12 I wasn't writing a language so much as just some macros or whatever to make writing loads of iterators less painful and error-prone. 05:38:54 Also, if it targets C++, people might use it as a library. 05:38:59 what percentage of popular programming languages started out as "just some macros"? 05:39:17 evincar: Actually in most cases I like the LLVM instructions directly; they are far better designed than C. But I would still like to have macros, similar to those in BLISS (Wikipedia has an article about BLISS; I also like the way that references to variables work in BLISS, and structures in BLISS; they are very versatile.) 05:39:20 kmc: Do more popular languages count for more? 05:39:43 kmc: I think EMACS did. 05:42:05 Macros in BLISS have some similarities to macros in TeX and METAFONT (but not exactly). 05:47:13 Definitions of structure types in BLISS can take parameters and can contain any arbitrary program code. 05:47:51 And I would like to see an explicit union type in LLVM; it could possibly even be used for some optimizations. 05:47:52 Hmm, that's another thing...what would be a good way of defining structures in my hypothetical iterator-language? 05:47:57 (If I should make one.) 05:48:15 Should all things be lists? 05:48:20 It would make sense. 05:48:35 I don't know. 05:48:42 Iterators naturally work on flat structures... 05:48:57 monqy: What do you think? 05:49:31 haven't been attentioning 05:50:05 don't force them to be flat because that's dumb 05:50:58 No, but it'd make sense for any concrete data to be represented by lists, lists of lists, and probably a handful of numeric types. 05:52:02 and what is "iterators naturally work on flat structures..." about? 05:52:34 Iterators present flat views of structures. 05:52:40 Even if they're hierarchical. 05:53:15 what kind of lists are we talking about 05:54:02 Not sure. Probably contiguous, as you could represent linked lists with cons iterators. 05:54:03 are they lazy? are they potentially infinite or perhaps restricted to being cyclic? are they necessarily homogenous? 05:54:10 by homogenous I mean type-wise 05:54:18 No, any concrete data would be finite. 05:54:25 You model laziness with iterators. 05:54:26 what do you mean by contiguous 05:54:30 as in in memory? 05:54:33 Yeah. 05:54:50 So you'd get efficient strings. 05:55:02 ugh whatever I don't feel like dealing with this right now 05:55:05 I don't like having a primitive string type when it can be a list[char]. 05:55:19 :( 05:55:26 I want someone to work this out with. 05:55:30 ok then make it list[char] 06:00:22 In Haskell the String type is the same as [Char] and in C you often use char* type (although you sometimes explicitly declare an array in place) 06:02:00 a line of inquiry which interests me (as a Haskell developer) is the extent to which things can be made to look like lazy linked lists but be implemented with contiguous memory 06:02:06 zzo38: Is a Haskell list ever contiguous, even as an optimisation? 06:02:31 this is already done on a somewhat ad-hoc basis, e.g. the Lazy ByteString type, which is basically a list of L2-cache-sized strict ByteStrings 06:02:43 but it only gives you laziness at that coarse granularity 06:02:55 and it's not a transparent optimization; it's a separate module written by the ByteString library authors 06:03:26 evincar, in GHC, not really no 06:03:37 sometimes the nodes would be accidentally contiguous, but this fact is not noticed or used 06:04:34 Hmm. 06:04:52 there are many data types in Haskell for contiguous packed data 06:05:05 but they have significantly different semantics from lists 06:05:34 I like the idea of all non-lazy things (data) being contiguous and having value semantics, and all lazy things (iters) being non-contiguous and referential. 06:05:49 I guess I'll go with it for now. 06:05:55 i like the idea of immutable data, for which value and reference semantics become much closer :) 06:08:03 I think my data are de facto immutable, considering. 06:08:21 evincar: I don't actually know how Haskell lists are contiguous or not in memory a list in Haskell is just a constructor : of type a -> [a] -> [a] as well as the constructor [] of type [a] 06:09:57 They are probably not particularly efficient as C and that stuff, although the way it is done in Haskell does allow a lot more things to be done with it than it would be if it were a simple contiguous finite list of items. 06:11:26 (But Haskell does have FFI so that you can write parts of the program in C as well, or even LLVM since it uses the same calling conventions as C and is compatible with C programs) 06:12:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:13:02 @tell elliott Oh my god this is too perfect. 06:13:03 Consider it noted. 06:13:15 @tell elliott Bill Bailey's son is called Dax. 06:13:15 Consider it noted. 06:13:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 06:20:04 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 06:20:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:31:42 Hmm, I'm reading the C-- spec. So far I quite like it. 06:40:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 06:40:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:43:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:43:51 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 06:43:51 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 07:02:56 Seems a shame that C-- hasn't taken off like LLVM has. 07:03:21 With the exception of the Cmm used by GHC. 07:03:53 C-- looks quite nice 07:04:27 I especially like the idea it has for handling garbage collection and exceptions 07:04:36 Tell us your code, then we'll tell you how to interact with the result 07:05:31 Yep. And explicit support for tail calls and continuations and such is a major plus. 07:05:57 I'm still unsure of how I want to compile this language to it. 07:06:17 It seems to require parameterised types, which would be some work to implement the way I want. 07:20:09 'Any compile-time error message that begins with the phrase "This can't happen" indicates an internal error in the Quick C-- compiler.' 07:20:58 You think? 07:37:10 hm? 07:39:11 The project seems largely abandoned. No CVS updates since 2009. 07:39:22 And the latest release notes cite a lot of unfinished business. 07:39:55 I believe it got taken over by ghc 07:40:21 and the only up to date maintained version of C-- is the one built into ghc 07:40:24 or something like that 07:40:27 Yeah, Cmm is a subset of C-- used as a GHC IR. 07:41:25 show me your garbage and i'll tell you who you are 07:42:22 mostly compressed empty plastic water jugs 07:42:26 cheater: Largely paper plates, napkins, teabags, and receipts. 07:42:32 At least the one in my bedroom. 07:42:59 and in the other, tissues, hair, dust 07:47:07 monqy: What kinds of tissues? Muscular? 07:48:59 facial tissues for containing and cleaning up mucous, blood, phlegm, spills, acting as napkins 07:49:14 I should use them to dust too 07:52:32 monqy uses people's facial tissues for scary things. 07:52:43 Why would you cutt off people's faces, monqy? Why? 07:52:53 Cutt is the way you spell cut. 08:13:14 I had to convert some text from SJIS to UTF-8. 08:13:32 I saved it in a temporary file before I ran iconv. 08:13:55 Before I did, I checked to see that the file contained what I expected it to. 08:13:58 My command line: 08:13:59 cat shit 08:14:05 Didn't think that one through. 08:15:52 stop talking 08:16:09 I think you mean typing. 08:16:11 In which case no. 08:33:34 "The new C++0x has various good new features like (vectors) ,new template, classes.etc" 08:33:42 *facepalm* 08:45:00 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 08:45:03 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 08:45:03 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 08:45:04 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 08:45:28 Solon Mebsuthnazom, ARmorer cancels Drink: Went insane 09:02:06 everyone was pretty happy and then all of a sudden some socially withdrawn guy went crazy and killed a bunch of people.. 09:02:20 and now everyone is killing everyone and dying from disease. 09:03:43 CakeProphet: DF? 09:04:24 yes 09:15:58 I think everyone is going to die because they're too stupid to move all the corpses out. 09:16:16 and making food again 09:17:04 set one of them to haul refuse and expand your refuse pile if it's full? 09:17:15 one or a bunch 09:19:02 ....why do they always destroy the kitchen first when they freak out. 09:19:19 because what's not to hate about a kitchen 09:21:24 bleh, I give up. 09:21:29 * CakeProphet has all of 5 people. 09:21:30 :( 09:24:00 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:11:21 CakeProphet, df? 10:11:42 CakeProphet, also the key to running a successful fort is making a boring one. That is however boring. 10:12:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:13:22 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:19:48 bbl, rebooting for kernel upgrade 10:19:54 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 10:24:51 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:28:03 -!- itidus21 has joined. 10:31:16 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:58:13 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:40:15 Vorpal, pft, you have to reboot to upgrade your kernel? How... last-millennium 11:45:12 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:46:06 Vorpal, pft, you have to reboot to upgrade your kernel? How... last-millennium <-- actually I used kexec 12:46:30 no ksplice? 12:46:33 c'mon 12:46:39 cheater, anyway, I build my own vanilla kernels. Doubtful ksplice could do 3.0 -> 3.0.4 anyway 12:48:43 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 12:48:57 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:49:25 no idea 12:49:26 -!- boily has joined. 12:49:33 i can ask one of the people who made ksplice 12:50:11 cheater, I don't really care 12:50:23 -!- sllide has joined. 12:50:26 you are just mean. :(( 12:50:38 ksplice is nice for HA systems obviously. But for my desktop? Nah, not worth the effort. 12:51:59 i hope one day linux will do ksplice like stuff by default 12:52:20 cheater, maybe, but ksplice won't work well when data structures change 12:53:17 cheater, so only really useful if you stay on some distro that does releases with long support. My desktop runs arch which is rolling release. 12:56:53 so you migrate! 12:57:03 data structures can often be migrated. 13:05:07 cheater, not easy when the memory subsystem is hauled over. 13:05:11 that happens 13:05:25 cheater, if it doesn't work between say 2.6.39 and 3.0 then it isn't worth it :P 13:20:43 kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs 13:21:09 it just speeds the process by skipping BIOS etc. 13:21:21 i worked at ksplice until they got bought by oracle 13:22:22 there's no absolute sharp line on how big of a change you can or can't do 13:22:53 it's a matter of someone putting in the effort to read all those patches and make manual changes as appropriate 13:23:33 most security fixes require no changes because they're stupid things like "lol, wrote < instead of <=" 13:24:01 we shipped many patches that modified data structures, and had very few issues with it, but they do require extra effort from humans 13:24:46 ksplicing from 3.0 to 3.0.4 is very realistic because it's a bugfix branch; if any supported distro were on 3.0 then ksplice would almost certainly ship those patches at some point 13:24:54 2.6.39 to 3.0 would be a lot more work 13:25:15 and now you know. 13:26:04 * Gregor imagines the NBC music and logo 13:32:56 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to itidus20. 13:33:47 so i have finally watched all of the james may toy stories 13:40:09 the what now? 13:41:46 phantom linked me to one of them about a lego house when i mentioned something about lego 13:47:46 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:21:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:23:12 http://www.ucfb.com/ 14:23:19 I was at a university thing today. 14:23:39 These guys had a stall between Oxford and Strathclyde's. 14:24:40 -!- marzin has joined. 14:24:49 hi to all :) 14:24:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:26:30 I'm new to esolanguages ;) 14:27:40 Welcome to an obsessive waste of years of your life 8-D 14:28:20 hehe :) 14:28:53 now I'm presice specifiation for my first esolang (interpretator will be in python ;)) 14:29:07 The interpretator. 14:29:46 sorry english is not my native language :) 14:31:11 this will be have a very very simple multithreading and inspired by brainf**k 14:33:15 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:37:55 -!- MDude has joined. 14:38:14 kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs <- indeed 14:39:12 heh :) hello world in 20+ lines 14:39:30 marzin, what language 14:39:44 -!- itidus21 has joined. 14:39:51 my esolang :) 14:39:54 ah 14:40:03 I just ended writing hello world 14:40:09 :) 14:43:17 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:47:53 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:55:45 What's the nonshittiest widget toolkit? 14:57:58 wx 14:58:15 gtk+ 14:58:17 of course 14:59:12 this depend of what language you want use and for what purpose 14:59:31 for example you can't use a HAIKU-OS widgeds in Haskell 14:59:43 ;) 15:01:38 I haven't chosen a language yet, but let's assume it's whatever language you hate most (for all "you") 15:01:51 -!- nooga has joined. 15:02:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:02:46 so 15:02:50 as I know 15:03:04 no widget tolkit exist for H9Q+ 15:03:07 :) 15:03:22 Gregor, definitely hate H9Q+ most too 15:03:35 I think 15:03:48 should be a RAD IDE for HQ9+ 15:04:04 heh 15:06:52 http://www.text-upload.com/read.php?id=130118&c=9097873 15:07:14 TRYBIK v0.1 specifiaction :) maybe I write implementation in python 15:07:15 :) 15:08:11 Naturally, your HQ9+ IDE should be in HQ9+ 15:08:53 yeah. But this will be non-standard extension 15:08:59 I 15:09:11 I command run a window with HQ9+ IDE :) 15:11:20 -!- Lymee has joined. 15:13:41 btw: I wonder if trybik is turing complete ;) 15:16:27 marzin, "One disc when loaded into memory of trybik VM has a exactly 256 (0-255) cells." <-- can you have an unlimited number of discs in a program? 15:17:26 if there is only a finite amount of memory that you can access it won't be turing complete 15:17:27 yeah 15:17:30 right 15:17:37 but one must load next :) 15:17:46 marzin, from inside the program? 15:18:05 it for it special cell 15:18:28 marzin, wait is a disc for the data of the program or for the code? 15:18:30 or both? 15:18:52 both thing are equal in it :) 15:19:53 I thinking about implementation of turing m. in this way: 15:20:03 one disc work as "scanner" 15:20:27 implement a TC language in it, if that is possible then it is also tc 15:20:43 and next discs as memory 15:21:06 this will be a like chain :) 15:21:43 Vorpal: when I'm write implementation of it I will think about some tc language interpreter in it :) 15:21:50 I'm must go bye :) 15:21:52 -!- marzin has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:40:00 Gregor, definitely hate H9Q+ most too 15:40:21 HQ9+ is acceptable because it was an original idea at the time. 15:40:28 Phantom_Hoover, dude read the context 15:40:51 I'm not like you; I don't read lines in isolation. 15:41:00 You can safely assume that I have read the context. 15:41:13 It is still an open question whether you even understand concept. 15:41:17 *context 15:41:25 God, I'm getting words wrong all the time. 15:41:29 Phantom_Hoover, I don't hate HQ9+ 15:41:36 I suspect a lack of sleep. 15:42:05 Phantom_Hoover, but it was about forcing Gregor to write whatever it was in HQ9+ 15:48:36 What the WHAT. 15:48:43 The Linux Skype client accepts s/// rewrites. 15:48:52 fizzie, err, where? 15:49:06 I just made one in the chat side, and it edited my original message, and put a little pen icon with a "this message has been edited" popup to it. 15:49:06 fizzie, I hope it is on the sound! 15:49:15 fizzie, awesome 15:49:33 Though I think it misparsed it, because I "s/,/./"'d, and the , turned to a \. 15:51:03 fizzie, heh 15:51:04 Well, "s/Foo/Bar/" worked. 15:51:14 I suspect an escaping issue. 15:51:32 fizzie, strace it to see if it calls out to sed or perl or whatever 15:51:43 Not right now, I'm in the middle of a call. 15:52:09 fizzie, google knew this btw 15:52:28 (google for "skype sed expressions" (without quotes)) 15:52:57 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to itidus20. 15:53:08 Well, it'd be a bit surprising if I would have been the first to notice. 15:53:18 I am now known as itidus20. 15:53:34 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:53:35 itidus20, and? 15:53:52 Apparently there's a proper UI for the editing/removal functionality too. 15:54:11 fizzie, anyway the sed thing works on non-linux too it seems 15:54:11 and 15:55:34 buddha apparently advised not to speculatively delianate I as finite nor infinite, eternal nor not-eternal 15:55:38 fizzie, actually only on mac and linux it seems. 15:57:05 Funnity. 15:58:24 keyword being apparently 16:00:02 it makes more sense if seen with the keen reasoning of a mathematician 16:01:07 but this is not how i want to launch myself into the room 16:01:33 guys, it's 2am.. my brother is asleep.. he works tomorrow.. i can't make coffee.. kettle too loud 16:01:50 this is the difficult hours where i have to behave 16:25:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:38:49 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to quicksilwer. 16:40:08 -!- quicksilwer has changed nick to copumpkin. 16:53:06 huh, cd takes flags 16:53:11 at least in bash 16:53:20 and in POSIX 17:01:12 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 17:01:12 -!- variable has joined. 17:21:15 I say I want to make the Haskell with many extension of my ideas, but they don't like it because is insane and is worthless and so on... 17:21:50 (But what if you want to use the insane version of Haskell?) 17:23:52 Including more-notation, but also to rename the (#) kind to ## and the Nat kind to + 17:24:12 And adding a kind for classes, which you put the kind that the class corresponds to in square brackets. 17:25:59 Now classes can have classes, too. 17:30:18 And macros at the level of tokens but that can still contain executable Haskell codes, and can even create Template Haskell splices to be used later 17:31:05 -!- sliddy has joined. 17:31:35 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:33 And a {-# LAW #-} pragma that tells the optimizer to assume certain properties of the code such as monad laws or commutativity or whatever. And be able to generate this pragma using Template Haskell so that in an instance declaration you can just make it include the proper laws from elsewhere 17:34:52 Is all of this insane? It doesn't matter much whether or not it is insane, I think, isn't it? 17:35:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:48:23 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:50:14 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 17:50:15 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 17:50:15 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 18:01:50 -!- chickenz has joined. 18:20:15 -!- elliott has joined. 18:27:40 03:56:23: Has anyone read this before? http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7824830mp13171x/ 18:27:40 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:27:40 03:56:47: !@#$ costing money 18:27:40 03:59:04: haha 18:27:40 03:59:08: <3 university 18:27:44 coppro: Sgeo goes to uni- what am I saying. 18:27:55 04:07:02: Can't a human determine whether a program can halt? 18:27:55 04:07:09: Not whether it does. 18:27:55 04:07:12: But whether it can. 18:27:55 04:07:36: If so, is there an algorithm for that? 18:27:55 no we can't. 18:28:23 04:12:36: coppro: Not really. A human's insight can often discern patterns that lead to discovery of the particular inputs for which the program does and does not halt. 18:28:23 yes, it is not impossible to prove that a certain program halts, or a certain program does not halt. 18:28:36 (aren't you doing CS?) 18:29:02 -!- chickenz has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:29:43 -!- marzin has joined. 18:29:55 re to all ;) 18:29:58 hello 18:33:47 -!- marzin has quit (Client Quit). 18:35:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:35:37 hi ais523 18:36:15 hi elliott 18:38:48 how to make me a loyal customer, method 909: take my request to add features to work around my temporary lack of number keys seriously 18:40:53 heh, somebody did? 18:41:21 ais523: yep (duckduckgo, which I suspect you already know of) 18:41:32 I've heard of it, but forgotten what it's for 18:42:13 it's a search engine; IMO it has much more useful results than Google, and they don't do the personalisation Google does (they also say they don't log, which I'm inclined to believe, but of course it's hard to tell) 18:42:39 they also do a redirect thing to stop the referer to sites including your search query (but you can turn that off), which is nice 18:43:08 ah, right 18:43:22 does the redirect thing also collate which results people clicked on? Google does that on pretty much all its sites 18:43:45 ais523: no; like I said, their mine marketing campaign is pretty much that they don't do any logging 18:43:58 fair enough 18:44:15 I may look at them; ever since Wikia Search and Cuil went down, I've been left without a good search engine 18:44:18 obviously it's hard to prove that, but lying about that doesn't seem to fit with anything else they do 18:44:32 Wikia Search I particularly liked because it tended to find relevant results that Google didn't 18:44:45 the reverse happened a lot more, ofc, but just having that happen at all is useful 18:45:29 ais523: heh, I suspect you might turn off one of my favourite aspects of it (if it can, it shows short summaries + links of relevant wikipedia articles at the top before the results, which I click on far more than the actual results; but I suspect you try Wikipedia first) 18:45:50 yep, if I think it's at all likely to be there, I try it first 18:45:58 unless I know another site that's more appropriate 18:46:01 its calculator is better too (Wolfram Alpha rather than Google's inconsistent one) :P 18:46:09 htis is true 18:46:18 What's wrong with Google's? 18:46:25 e.g. [[Bulbasaur]] was (maybe still is) a featured article on Wikipedia, but I'd be more likely to look it up on Bulbapedia, Smogon or Veekun, depending on what information I needed 18:46:33 Phantom_Hoover: inconsistency: parenthesising an expression and building on top of its numeric result can just fail 18:46:39 it doesn't like conversions being parenthesised, for instance 18:46:51 and sometimes it just doesn't answer to a query for no reason, and if you change a few words or whatever it does 18:47:52 why not use a calculator as a calculator? 18:48:24 because computers obsolete calculators? 18:48:35 admittedly, I don't care about it being done over the internet 18:48:45 I would be happy if Chrome just called up Frink if it thought I entered a calculation 18:49:11 elliott: well, calculator app on a computer, I consider to be a calculator 18:49:17 but starting a calculator is more of a pain than opening a tab, and most application calculators don't let you use words instead of numbers :P 18:49:47 Vorpal: boring? 18:49:49 in what way? 18:49:58 CakeProphet, ? 18:49:58 ais523: if this were @, then I'd use a calculator program of some sort, because it'd be easy to call up; but making a search in Chrome is one of the fastest things I can do on my computer as it is, and one of the most general 18:50:04 CakeProphet, care to give some context 18:50:06 Vorpal: df. forts. boring. 18:50:09 and starting applications is much slower 18:50:11 elliott: I'd need to load Chrome first 18:50:17 well, I'd need to /install/ Chrome before that 18:50:20 ais523: yes, but I wouldn't :) 18:50:23 (I have Chromium installed, but not Chrome) 18:50:39 elliott: amusingly, for simple calculations I often use echo $((1+1)) or whatever 18:50:42 because I /do/ normally have a terminal open 18:50:50 CakeProphet, ah. Well: wall the border of the entire map. always plug any caverns you run into and use fortifications to map out their extent, and avoid them. Stuff like that 18:50:55 ais523: Chrome's address bar is basically a command-line these days, really 18:51:00 or rather, search engines are 18:51:06 some of them aren't very good at it, though 18:51:11 except when I'm on my usual Konversation/Akregator/Firefox/Evolution setup that I use when generically online and not doing anything else 18:51:16 I think that's what Ubiquity was trying to get at 18:51:17 (that's what I'm doing atm) 18:51:29 elliott: same; I'm not convinced that that's a bad idea 18:51:39 although I think there's a reasonably high chance that Mozilla will screw it up 18:51:44 CakeProphet, oh and traps. Lots of traps. 18:52:03 CakeProphet, with guard dog for the single entrance corridor. 18:52:06 ais523: I think Ubiquity is dead after Aza left 18:52:17 Vorpal: traps are practically cheating 18:52:28 elliott, oh? 18:52:34 hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding) 18:52:46 I'm wondering if it's feasible to switch away from gmail for my mail 18:52:54 Vorpal: they're incredibly overpowered 18:52:57 elliott: heh, I won't bother responding then 18:53:01 elliott, anyway I wasn't saying that it was a good idea. Just that such a fort survives well. 18:53:03 interestingly, I despise Thunderbird 18:53:04 And is quite boring 18:53:07 ais523: yes you will (you did) 18:53:18 whereas I'm OK with evolution 18:53:21 *Evolution 18:53:26 Vorpal: IIRC traps' power is marked as a bug in the official tracker 18:53:31 I've also tried using mail(1), but it's a little primitive 18:53:33 hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding) <-- for reading local reports from cron and so on? 18:53:35 ais523: I don't remember liking Thunderbird, but maybe a user can convince me it got better 18:53:48 I ended up trying it again recently, it had got even worse 18:53:51 Vorpal: what do you think? 18:54:00 Vorpal: presumably for over-Internet email 18:54:13 elliott, do you run a local MTA? ;) 18:54:15 Server-synchronisation features are desired, but I don't care whether it's Maildir over ssh or IMAP 18:54:17 (wow, I didn't realise that that disambiguator would be ever needed again) 18:54:25 elliott, for reading cron job reports I use alpine. I ended up using tunderbird for IMAP access to gmail. 18:54:29 And I'm fine running a separate daemon to synchronise it as long as it's easy to pull, preferably from within the client 18:54:42 ais523: clearly, it should be called imail 18:54:53 Vorpal: tunderbird 18:55:02 tunderbird ar go 18:55:09 elliott, "ar"? 18:55:12 ar 18:55:16 ah 18:55:19 thunderbird* 18:55:25 wait that looks wrong too 18:55:27 too sleepy 18:55:45 elliott, yeah whatever, modulo typos 18:56:19 04:32:55: What's even more odd is the class of programs that are designed not to halt. 18:56:20 04:33:08: Telephony systems, aircraft controllers, that sort of thing. 18:56:20 they are not designed to halt, but they are designed to be productive (technical term) 18:56:33 in other words, they're a transformation from codata to codata 18:57:08 there are LOTS of such systems even outside such specialised applications 18:57:19 operating systems, web servers, and so on 18:57:35 yes; nobody wants a non-halting program, really 18:57:40 they want a non-halting, productive program 18:57:50 which are expressable in total languages 18:57:59 (although maybe not as easily as you'd like but that applies to existing total languages in general) 18:58:34 elliott, I would say everyone wants productive programs. Some may halt. For example: simulate the weather for the next 4 days, then output the result and halt 18:58:55 Vorpal: I am sceptical you know the technical definition of productive 18:59:15 elliott, hm indeed, I wasn't aware it had a technical definition. 18:59:18 elliott, what is it? 18:59:19 unfortunately, I don't know anywhere good to point you to learn it 18:59:21 TIL that there's a technical definition of productive 19:00:17 elliott, so tell me what the technical definition is. 19:00:26 I'm not a good teacher 19:00:56 elliott, practise makes perfect 19:01:20 Not on you, it doesn't. 19:01:37 elliott, I meant for you to learn teaching 19:02:12 Not on you, it doesn't. 19:02:19 come on 19:03:02 elliott, where did you learn that technical definition of "productive" 19:03:26 Maaan, sound physics are terrible. 19:03:33 I don't recall. Maybe some Coq thing. 19:03:51 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:03:55 So, amplitude drops off with 1/d^2, but because decibels are some kind of crazy human nonsense, they drop off with 1/d? What kind of nonsense is this? 19:04:08 Gregor learns "logarithms". 19:04:12 Gregor, dB are logarithmic 19:04:17 is* 19:04:27 Gregor "Math is science, what are logarithms" Richards (family motto) 19:04:29 But the confusing thing about dB is the human factor, not the math. 19:04:32 elliott, and snap, you beat me to it 19:04:40 Gregor, that is dBA isn't it? 19:04:42 Enemy of Opensourcia, motto "what is frp" 19:06:07 Human in the sense that the reason why decibels exist is to match some human understanding of sound. 19:06:33 Gregor, I mean, the human-ear-compensated thingy is dBA iirc? While plain dB is the simple logarithmic scale. 19:06:45 Gregor, err, dB is used outside of sound. 19:07:03 for example: signal and noise levels of wifi 19:07:14 Strudle. 19:07:21 *Strudel. 19:07:45 Gregor, how is that relevant? 19:07:51 Vorpal: Stru. 19:07:53 Vorpal: del. 19:08:13 Gregor: strudel 19:08:18 elliott: Strudel. 19:08:47 06:31:42: Hmm, I'm reading the C-- spec. So far I quite like it. 19:08:48 07:02:56: Seems a shame that C-- hasn't taken off like LLVM has. 19:08:48 07:03:21: With the exception of the Cmm used by GHC. 19:08:48 C-- is a dead project outside of GHC, which has its own dialect. 19:09:16 Gregor, decibels are defined without any reference to humans IIRC. 19:09:39 Yes, the definition is just a logarithmic scale of amplitude. 19:10:03 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:06 -!- elliott_ has joined. 19:10:10 why is transmitting power of wlan measured in dBm and not mW? In iwconfig output that is 19:10:20 Gregor: Also you didn't answer my QUESTION 19:10:24 But the question is, why do we need a logarithmic scale of amplitude? What was wrong with a linear scale? I know why pitch is logscale, and it's for strictly human reasons, even though the actual measure of pitch isn't human. 19:10:40 elliott_: Strudel. 19:10:51 Gregor: THERE IS NO MUA CALLED STRUDEL 19:10:59 Gregor, dude, there are very good theoretical reasons for pitch to be logarithmic. 19:11:19 elliott_, make one 19:11:19 You... should know that. 19:11:37 Phantom_Hoover, I'm not familiar with it, what is it? 19:11:43 Vorpal: Make one for me. 19:12:13 Phantom_Hoover: If humans didn't hear sound how we did, science would be muddling along with a linear scale of frequency and still be able to understand resonance, harmonics, etc. 19:12:20 s/did/do/ :P 19:12:54 elliott_, execute this in bash: echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec mail' > strudel && chmod +x strudel 19:13:03 Vorpal: not good client 19:13:03 there, strudel 1.0 19:13:08 elliott_, didn't say it was 19:13:18 elliott_: So what's this mua nonsense :P 19:13:20 Gregor, sure, but we could never have defined any units other than the kilogram, second, kelvin, metre, ampere, mole and candela. 19:13:29 Gregor, elliott_ is looking for a MUA 19:13:31 I think 19:13:49 Gregor: 18:52:34: hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding) 19:13:49 18:52:46: I'm wondering if it's feasible to switch away from gmail for my mail 19:14:03 I use thunderbird, and now elliott_ will complain about it. 19:14:05 elliott_, while thunderbird isn't perfect, it is okay. 19:14:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:14:41 elliott_, you mean a different mail provider than gmail? 19:14:43 Gregor: Nope, I've so far just ignored people who say Thunderbird, because they need to convince me it didn't stop being crap in the past five years :) 19:14:58 Vorpal: I use gmail as my client. I can set up qmail myself, I just want to know what clients people use. 19:15:21 elliott_: It's hard to convince you of things if you're ignoring me :P 19:15:28 Of course, it's hard to convince of things anyway, but *eh* 19:15:35 elliott_, hm not sure what clients support maildir these days. Haven't been using qmail for quite a while 19:15:54 Gregor, you forgot the subject of that sentence 19:15:55 Vorpal: I can use IMAP, dude. 19:16:15 Vorpal: Subjects are for losers. 19:16:31 elliott_, right. For qmail, get netqmail iirc. To support SPF and such iirc. I think that was in the netqmail patch set. But it was years ago I used it. 19:16:33 Can Thunderbird do GMail-style conversations? Oh, hmm, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ seems to be an extension for is. 19:16:36 for it. 19:16:46 Anyway, suffice it to say that physically-realistic reverberation is so terrible >_< 19:16:49 Gregor, as in you forgot "you" or "elliott" in that line. 19:16:51 My recollection of Thunderbird is basically "direct clone of Outlook Express and therefore just painful". 19:17:05 Vorpal: Yes, as subjects are for losers. 19:17:13 right 19:17:32 elliott_, it changed a bit. And it is quite a bit better than OE. 19:17:59 I'm tempted to try sup again, but I really dislike ncurses, and I don't know how maintained it is these days. 19:18:08 (I'm surprised nobody's yelled about mutt being great yet.) 19:18:16 elliott_, give it a try for an hour or so, you can uninstall it and do rm -rf ~/.thunderbird if you didn't like it. 19:18:34 elliott_, I used mutt in the past. I prefer alpine though. 19:18:54 Vorpal: I know I can; I'm just trying to prioritise through suggestions first. 19:19:11 elliott_, does kmail still exist? 19:19:32 elliott_, last I used it was during KDE 3. I have no idea how it changed since then. 19:19:45 It's Kontact now. 19:19:46 It was okayish, better support for maildir and such than thunderbird iirc. 19:19:48 ah 19:19:58 And it's more of a "contact suite" thing. It seems to be very KDE. 19:20:00 elliott_, sounds like an address book application 19:20:30 Vorpal: Well, Wikipedia says it's KMail + KAddressBook + KOrganizer + Akregator + KNode (Usenet). 19:20:39 Although it does look like you can start those separately. 19:20:54 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/KDE4.2-KMail.png ;; yeah, I'll pass. I doubt it could possibly be better than Thunderbird. 19:21:17 knode was terrible, I remember that 19:21:31 I don't use Usenet, like everybody else. 19:21:45 I like it, but generally just use Google Groups as I don't have a newsserver subscription 19:21:54 elliott_, I stopped using it these days. 19:22:02 I think it ought to be more popular among people who know what they're doing and less popular among people who don't 19:22:04 then it would be great 19:22:05 sad to see it die though 19:22:23 ais523: it died because it has no technological means to do that 19:22:24 ais523, you mean like before eternal september? 19:22:29 Vorpal: yes 19:22:34 elliott_: heh, perhaps 19:22:37 ais523: which is the fate of pretty much every community nowadays 19:22:45 ais523: except accelerated because now the internet is huge 19:22:57 communities ideally need to be moderately well known 19:23:01 in order to stop that happening 19:23:04 e.g. idiots just haven't heard of them 19:23:06 elliott_, this channel, what about it? 19:23:22 ais523: reddit seems like it'll probably last for ages and ages, but at a much lower quality than it started with; the voting system keeps spam and blatant trolls down to a minimum, but it also promotes hivemind thinking 19:23:29 but Usenet had... nothing 19:23:40 except trying to cancel all spam posts, I guess? 19:23:43 ais523, it is possible to maintain small communities that work like that. But once it grows past a certain point it seems to break down. 19:23:48 elliott_: it had killfiles 19:23:57 it's entirely possible to have two independent communities in the same newsgroup as a result 19:24:15 ais523: that doesn't make it any easier to run a server with that high spam traffic; and how do you think killfiles would help if botnets were developed when spamming usenet was still relevant? 19:24:18 ais523, did that ever happen? 19:24:24 Vorpal: this channel is small 19:24:30 elliott_, yes 19:24:31 Vorpal: hopefully, it'll stay that way 19:24:47 elliott_: oh, I was referring to humans not spambots 19:24:49 and everyone here apart from Sgeo seems to be pretty good at selectively inviting people, if they do at all 19:25:00 elliott_, we need fizzie to make a graph of average number of people over time 19:25:05 spam's an independent problem 19:25:10 Vorpal: it would look like the graph of log size over time 19:25:14 i.e. / 19:25:36 elliott_, doubtful. Some people idle, some speak more. 19:25:50 possibly that cancels each other 19:25:54 so hm 19:26:18 elliott_, but hasn't it been pretty stable over the last year or so? Around 40-60 19:26:27 Damn it, improving the realism of reverb just makes it sound terrible :P 19:26:40 who actually talks in here, though? (. to prevent annoying pings) o.erjan, me, ais, l.ymee, n.ooga, c.opumpkin, iti, PH, you, c.heater, S.geo, D.eewiant, o.lsner, s.hachaf, c.oppro, f.izzie, a.tehwa, q.uintopia, g.regor are the only people who have talked recently 19:26:45 Gregor, use an existing reverb implementation? 19:26:57 that's only nineteen people 19:27:06 good job not highlighting me 19:27:08 An elite group. 19:27:11 heh 19:27:13 Vorpal: Reverb implementations that do more than single reverberation or "ambient" (read: bullshit) reverb don't exist. 19:27:15 copumpkin: heh, how did I manage to? 19:27:19 s/don't exist/are hyper-expensive/ 19:27:23 Vorpal: well, that was a filtering of the people online now 19:27:23 I also highlight on pumpkin 19:27:26 elliott_, more or less yeah. Plus that new user today. 19:27:26 but that's most of 'em 19:27:38 copumpkin: but I said "opumpkin"! 19:27:45 Vorpal: oh, I just got to them in the logs 19:27:57 Vorpal: I doubt they'll stay very long; people don't tend to 19:27:59 "O pumpkin my pumpkin" 19:28:11 14:59:31: for example you can't use a HAIKU-OS widgeds in Haskell 19:28:11 Is that a challenge? 19:28:18 Yes. 19:28:20 Yes it is. 19:28:27 Gregor: but yeah, GTK, but don't even think about using it from C 19:28:33 Gregor: (Seriously, don't :P) 19:28:37 elliott_, not good at English, but a honest attempt at a new esolang. Inspired by brainfuck but not one of the simple substitution clones. 19:28:40 Gregor: ((GObjects, man; GObjects.)) 19:28:43 someone should take a closer look at it 19:28:44 elliott_: the string pumpkin is good enough :P 19:28:58 copumpkin: Now all we need is a useful word with "pumpkin" in it, and we can annoy you all day. 19:29:03 elliott_: How about ... gcj gtk+ trololololol 19:29:08 elliott_, what was that new language gnome invented? Vala or something like that? 19:29:16 Gregor: For GTK, better than C. 19:29:23 DPEMOFKOXM 19:29:25 Gregor: Anything with any kind of objects or at least higher-order abstraction is better than C. 19:29:32 Gregor: (For GTK) 19:29:42 Because you don't have to write object system plugging code every line :P 19:29:43 elliott_, let's define opumpkin to mean 'Brainfuck derivative'. 19:29:44 Gregor, you won't believe this, but GTK# from C# is quite nice compared to GTK from C. 19:29:51 Vorpal: Vala is pretty good, for glib and GTK :P 19:30:01 I wouldn't write a program in it from scratch. 19:30:05 elliott_, ah 19:30:09 Vorpal: If Gregor has ever used GTK from C, he will believe that. 19:30:11 elliott_, you coded in vala? 19:30:18 Vorpal: I wrote a hello world once :-P 19:30:29 elliott_, with "quite nice" I mean "actually usable" as well. 19:30:40 Does anyone *write* hello world? 19:30:46 15:48:36: What the WHAT. 19:30:46 15:48:43: The Linux Skype client accepts s/// rewrites. 19:30:46 15:49:06: I just made one in the chat side, and it edited my original message, and put a little pen icon with a "this message has been edited" popup to it. 19:30:49 fizzie: OMG. 19:30:55 Phantom_Hoover, I done it in befunge. Using t 19:30:57 fizzie: I am going to make everyone I talk to switch to Skype now. 19:31:42 15:55:38: fizzie, actually only on mac and linux it seems. 19:31:42 Or maybe not. 19:32:11 (Though that post saying it didn't work on Windows is a year old, so maybe that's changed.) 19:32:16 elliott_, it works on windows? Or did you mean that you won't make people switch to skype? 19:32:25 17:21:15: I say I want to make the Haskell with many extension of my ideas, but they don't like it because is insane and is worthless and so on... 19:32:25 17:21:50: (But what if you want to use the insane version of Haskell?) 19:32:25 compelling 19:32:34 Vorpal: I meant if it doesn't work on Windows, then the reason no longer exists :P 19:32:39 Because everyone uses Windows. 19:33:16 elliott_, I would suspect this channel, and IRC in general, has a larger percentage of linux users than the overall in the world. 19:33:36 Vorpal: yes, obviously by "everyone I talk to" I mean "you bastards". 19:33:49 Sad statement 19:33:54 elliott_, you have a life outside #esoteric and #haskell and so on? 19:33:57 huh 19:34:19 IT DEPENDS WHAT YOU MEAN BY LIFE 19:34:26 :P 19:35:55 Surely someone here uses a client that isn't Thunderbird. 19:36:00 Or Evolution shut up ais523. 19:36:01 OH I KNOW 19:36:04 oerjan: WHAT MAIL CLIENT DO YOU USE 19:36:15 elliott_: I wouldn't even have noticed your comment if you didn't ping me 19:36:23 Predicting either "Outlook" or "mutt or something through putty". 19:36:33 ais523: ;__; 19:37:28 elliott | 641875 19:37:31 that is a lot of lines 19:37:36 That few? 19:37:55 elliott_, with nick merging too 19:38:03 not sure if elliott_ is merged into it though 19:38:12 Not a very good merging if it doesn't use prefixes. 19:38:20 elliott` too, after all. 19:39:08 Why do people even write ncurses applications that aren't roguelikes. 19:39:13 elliott_, yep it merged them 19:39:27 nick | cnt 19:39:27 ------------------+-------- 19:39:27 elliott | 641875 19:39:27 Vorpal | 276156 19:39:27 ais523 | 136770 19:39:28 oerjan | 96917 19:39:30 oklopol | 92305 19:39:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:39:55 elliott_: wow, have you really talked more than everyone else put together? 19:39:59 then pikhq, gregor, sgeo, fizzie, Deewiant, Phantom_Hoover, cakeprophet 19:40:08 ais523: I doubt put together. 19:40:12 ais523, that was just the top few lines. But let me sum the rest. 19:40:14 Vorpal: Take the cnt of every line? 19:40:24 Then just take out my cnt. Uh, rephrase that. 19:40:30 Vorpal: are you merging, say, elliott_ and elliott? 19:40:34 ais523: Vorpal. 19:40:53 (I actually use ais523_ and ais523 for different purposes, even though they're both me) 19:40:59 oerjan: WHAT MAIL CLIENT DO YOU USE <-- alpine 19:41:04 ais523, yes 19:41:06 oerjan: oh, I should have guessed 19:41:06 (through putty) 19:41:15 ais523, and also ehird, tusho, and so on 19:41:26 if you're going further back, indeed 19:41:29 ais523, I'm selecting from a view with those merged 19:41:31 arvid=> select SUM(x.cnt) from (select nick,COUNT(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na group by nick order by cnt desc) as x where x.nick != 'elliott'; 19:41:31 sum 19:41:31 --------- 19:41:31 1860488 19:41:31 (1 row) 19:41:38 Vorpal: bad 19:41:41 Vorpal: or is that nomralised 19:41:42 normalised 19:41:44 so elliott's responsible fore about a third of the conversation in here 19:41:56 oh, excluding elliott, so a quarter 19:41:58 *for 19:42:00 elliott_, logs_na is a merged view 19:42:09 ais523: over all time, not just the time I've been here, presumably 19:42:18 I don't really talk THAT much, I just merge lines less :P 19:42:31 heh, perhaps 19:42:35 elliott_, indeed. Give me the date when you joined 19:42:46 wait I can find that 19:42:50 Vorpal: do you mean first joined, or first joined and started talking? 19:42:53 two thousand and six, for the former 19:42:57 sometime in two thousand and seven for the latter 19:43:04 Maybe I should just write my own mail cli- NO 19:43:41 arvid=> select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' ORDER BY serial LIMIT 1; 19:43:42 serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body 19:43:42 --------+---------------------+---------+--------+--------------------------------------------+------+------ 19:43:42 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 | 19:43:53 -!- augur has joined. 19:44:00 elliott_, but sure, let me select the first line you spoke in 19:44:25 > select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' and type = 0 ORDER BY serial LIMIT 1; 19:44:25 serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body 19:44:25 --------+---------------------+---------+--------+-------+------+--------------------------------------------------------- 19:44:25 271395 | 2007-05-14 17:49:00 | elliott | | | 0 | i honestly think my language may be worse than malbolge 19:44:25 : parse error on input `where' 19:44:26 huh 19:44:32 that was a terrible language btw 19:44:34 wait what, didn't you speak a single time? 19:44:45 elliott_, which language was it? 19:44:49 not in 2006, I think I got too intimidated by the silence and long user list and left 19:44:55 Vorpal: never named, never worked, almost certainly not TC 19:45:05 * elliott_ wonders what pol.co.uk is 19:45:09 maybe tiscali 19:45:11 select SUM(x.cnt) from (select nick,COUNT(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na where serial >= 271395 group by nick order by cnt desc) as x where x.nick != 'elliott'; 19:45:13 well there we go 19:45:14 lets see 19:45:36 1589097 lines that you didn't say since then 19:45:56 cool 19:46:19 elliott_: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.pl and http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.py ? >:) 19:46:35 oerjan: no, that was a good language 19:46:54 ok then 19:47:03 oerjan: EXCUSE ME :P 19:47:04 approximately the same time, though 19:47:12 Well, same YEAR, sure. 19:47:30 2007-05-30.txt:00:22:26: anyway what i did do is at http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.pl 19:47:35 OK fair enough. 19:47:49 What does this thing do? 19:48:12 Oh, it's a broken piece of crap. 19:48:52 .py works 19:48:56 except it doesn't do escapes, I think 19:49:01 or hmm 19:49:02 yes it does 19:49:05 ebcause python's re language accepts \n 19:49:09 oh 19:49:14 but oerjan doesn't fix escapes in the replacement 19:49:16 so no, it doesn't work 19:49:21 but it's close 19:49:22 641872/1589097 = .4039224792 19:49:23 hm 19:49:40 Vorpal: that was _without_ 19:49:44 you need to add the numerator back on 19:49:49 elliott_, err oh yeah 19:50:01 .2877099592 19:50:09 elliott_, still a sizable proportion 19:50:16 also, qmail users: what's them good things for synchronising maildirs or imap 19:50:32 elliott_, also wait, this is broken. It contains joins and parts too 19:50:34 let me fix 19:51:06 ais523: oh dear, Thunderbird is three major versions ahead of my repository version 19:51:13 :) 19:51:28 elliott_: it has Firefox syndrome, for the same reason Firefox does, right? 19:51:37 there's an official PPA, it seems 19:51:48 ais523: yes; personally, I'm sceptical of the value of releases as a concept altogether 19:51:56 oh, that reminds me, is there a sane way to run gnome 3 programs on gnome 2? 19:52:14 633741 / (1410147+633741) = .3100664028 19:52:16 ais523: compile them, then run them; but why not use gnome 3 + metacity + gnome-panel instead? 19:52:17 I don't want to install gnome 3, but am wondering if there's just a library I can install or something 19:52:18 elliott_, that is more accurate 19:52:23 that's easier, and catches gtk 3 changes 19:52:29 and is basically identical, I gather 19:52:39 ais523, I included joins and parts above, see revised numbers 19:52:44 joins and parts should be excluded 19:52:48 elliott_: because I don't want to upgrade the system right now, and am trying to run the latest version of one gnome 3 version to see if bugs in it have been fixed 19:52:50 this is just messages and /mes 19:52:52 they aren't content 19:52:55 elliott_, yep I fixed it 19:52:59 ais523: try and compile it; with any luck it'll work 19:53:01 Vorpal: oh 19:53:03 so you spoke ~31% of the lines 19:53:08 elliott_: I did, it said I didn't have gnome 3 installed 19:53:14 let me try again to get the exact message 19:53:14 aha, there's an official ppa for thunderbird 19:53:24 ais523: it's likely wanting gtk three 19:53:28 ais523, gnome 3 itself is a bug. 19:53:35 Vorpal: -one, troll 19:53:37 elliott_: i vaguely thought i changed to python because it's re.sub _did_ allow escapes to work in the right places. but whatever. 19:53:37 speaking of which, I saw somewhere that Torvalds said that too 19:53:45 oerjan: yes, but it won't replace in the _replacement_ string 19:53:53 Vorpal: -3, appeal to authority 19:54:18 elliott_, I wasn't doing that. I was mentioning it. I was not saying that made it right 19:54:34 elliott_: well if you are sure of that. 19:54:52 it's been > 4 years 19:54:57 elliott_, anyway gnome 3 is horrible. Have you tried it? And not that unity stuff of ubuntu 19:54:58 oerjan: >>> re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc') 19:54:58 '\n' 19:54:58 >>> print re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc') 19:54:58 >>> 19:54:59 huh 19:54:59 weird 19:55:27 No package 'gtk+-3.0' found 19:55:30 yep, it's GTK it needs 19:55:33 Vorpal: -4, ais523 has a problem that I am trying to help it with, butting in with your opinion on GNOME 3 is not really helpful 19:55:35 and GTK 3 isn't in the repositories 19:55:39 ais523: if it's a different package, it might be a different .so too 19:55:44 ais523: so you might be able to install gtk3 yourself 19:55:48 without causing conflicts 19:55:51 indeed 19:55:54 what program is it? 19:56:00 gnibbles 19:56:02 elliott_, -5 I don't care about your score system. 19:56:15 it somehow managed to reintroduce bugs that I fixed myself (and sent them patches for which they accepted and it worked in the past) 19:56:18 and make them even worse, somehow 19:56:20 ais523: looks like Oneiric has gtk 3, at least 19:56:29 and I want to know if they've fixed them, and if not patch them again 19:56:35 Vorpal: -infinity, it's not mine, so shut up 19:56:38 ais523, you could install gnome 3 elsewhere btw. And use -rpath or such 19:56:49 elliott_: what's Oneiric? 19:56:50 elliott_, why are you using it then 19:56:54 Vorpal: -nullity, I just suggested that, except only the dependency he actually needs 19:56:59 ais523: ubuntu 19:57:06 `python -c print "\\n" 19:57:11 File "", line 1 \ print "\\n" \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent 19:57:15 oerjan: it's re that does it 19:57:16 `run python -c print "\\n" 19:57:18 No output. 19:57:20 elliott_: perhaps it's because I'm on an LTS version 19:57:22 not print 19:57:22 I wonder if there's a PPA 19:57:25 huh 19:57:32 ais523: I'm telling you to just nab the package from the upcoming 11.10 19:57:33 oh wait duh 19:57:36 assuming it's already in there 19:57:39 `run python -c print '"\\n"' 19:57:40 No output. 19:57:46 gah 19:57:49 elliott_: oh, you mean just grab the .deb and install by hand? 19:57:53 -!- monqy has joined. 19:58:06 ais523: yes 19:58:11 ais523: (or fiddle with apt's exclusion stuff but meh) 19:58:19 it's easier than compiling, at least, and more reversible than make install 19:58:19 elliott_: i'm just not sure what that '\n' you had above means 19:58:27 oerjan: It was '\\n', not '\n'. 19:58:29 is it backslash + n or a newline 19:58:33 oerjan: I printed it for a reason 19:58:37 to show that it got turned into \n 19:58:40 elliott_: the printed result 19:58:41 i.e. deescaped 19:58:44 oerjan: oh my god 19:58:47 oerjan: >>> re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc') 19:58:47 '\n' 19:58:47 >>> print re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc') 19:58:47 >>> 19:58:54 if it was backslash then n, it would be printed like that 19:59:09 oh k 19:59:52 remember Window Maker? 19:59:56 whatever happened to it 19:59:58 * oerjan does not have enough memory for all umpteen escaping conventions 19:59:59 it exists 20:00:12 last release 6 years ago 20:00:13 hm 20:00:15 oerjan: well obviously if I input as '\\n' and it's REPL'd as '\n' something changed 20:00:33 Vorpal: WM (git)snapshotWe do not provide our own binary packages. However, third partiessometimes make them available. 20:00:38 Revision by John H. Robinson, IV, 2011-08-17 20:00:48 http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git 20:00:52 heh 20:01:03 elliott_, I like that word "partiessometimes" 20:01:07 http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git/shortlog looks actively developed 20:02:14 oh, I had a crazy dream last night 20:02:24 I dreamt I was reading a book about Objective-C, to try to learn Objective-C 20:02:37 Quality issues 20:02:37 Would it be possible and appropriate to mention politely somewhere that Window Maker is pretty outdated and generally rubbish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.82.226 (talk) 13:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC) 20:02:40 I realised I was dreaming when the book reached the end of my knowledge of Objective-C, and would have to explain something to me that I didn't already know 20:02:47 haha 20:03:14 but it turned out to be a recursive dream, and I merely dreamt I'd woken up rather than actually waking up 20:03:50 ais523, heh, I never had a recursive dream that I remembered 20:04:01 I've had quite a lot 20:04:07 * oerjan doesn't like his recursive dreams 20:04:08 normally after waking up the first time, it's just annoying 20:04:13 oerjan, oh? 20:04:20 because you go through the normal just-after-waking-up routine and nothing's unusual 20:04:26 then you wake up and have to do it all again 20:04:42 ais523, start by reading some text, turning away and trying to read it again. Every time you wake up. 20:04:54 should speed up the process 20:05:02 i tend to dream i'm in my childhood home, and then dream that i wake up sad in my apartment. and then i wake up for real, still sad. 20:05:03 Vorpal: it hasn't happened for years 20:05:07 ah 20:05:16 this has been my first recursive dream for ages 20:05:18 oerjan, ouch 20:05:29 oerjan: :{ 20:05:47 oerjan, you need to get a nicer apartment then. So you get a nice surprise when you wake up the second time 20:06:10 YOU DON'T SAY 20:09:38 I haven't had that, although a few times I've been lying in bed completely convinced that I'm in another house. 20:10:06 hmm, I'm scared of trying out Thunderbird because my gmail is so huge 20:10:14 can I tell it to pretend I created my gmail ten days ago :D 20:10:27 huh, only 1171 megs used... still a lot to download 20:11:25 elliott_, you need to enable sync for it to do that. Right click on a folder and select properties or something 20:11:33 and select available when offline 20:11:47 elliott_, if you don't do that it won't download more than the index and the mails you open 20:11:53 assuming you use IMAP and not POP 20:12:05 index is still pretty big :P 20:12:23 elliott_, not near 1171 MB though. 20:12:24 nice, thunderbird deduces the configuration from my email 20:12:38 elliott_, yes it does that nowdays. 20:12:48 for a handful of providers 20:13:18 elliott_, remember to enable IMAP in the gmail preferences too 20:13:40 already did that years ago 20:13:54 ah 20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 20:20:11 Vorpal: productivity, in management lingo, is the relationship between the completion of a task/production and time. 20:20:23 does that count as a technical definition? 20:21:32 * oerjan swats CakeProphet -----### 20:21:34 NO 20:22:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:22:19 -!- CakeProp1et has joined. 20:22:44 oerjan, what is the technical definition 20:22:51 oerjan, I don't know it, but would like to know. 20:22:56 elliott wouldn't tell me 20:23:28 oerjan, it seems only he and you know this technical definition so far. 20:24:03 well afaik productivity of codata means that you're guaranteed to evaluate to a constructor in finite time, this should be clear enough if you understand haskell's laziness 20:24:29 oerjan, ah. 20:24:33 so you can have an infinite list as codata, but you can get at each element in finite time 20:25:37 well this is my intuition, not the technical definition, which i may not even have read :P 20:26:16 in contrast, for data, you must be able to evaluate the _entire_ structure in finite time. 20:26:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:26:48 (this applies to terminating languages, haskell of course has no scruples with never halting) 20:26:55 hmm, thunderbird conversations has some flaws 20:27:27 just use proper quoting in the actual emails, then you don't even need threading 20:27:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:27:50 ais523: I vastly prefer flat threading over any other kind of organisation 20:28:25 one thing i'm still not clear about is what happens if you have interleaving of data and codata constructors. 20:28:33 elliott_: as in, sorting emails by which email that wasn't a reply to anything they're an indirect reply to? 20:28:54 ais523: do the normal threading algorithm, then collapse it to a single level of hierarchy, ordering by date on the rest :P 20:28:57 (note: algorithm is inefficient) 20:29:38 I suppose that in my case, chronological order of emails is often more important than context (which should be in the email already) 20:29:48 I want to have all the new emails sorted to the bottom, no matter what conversation they're part of 20:30:15 no thunderbird stop downloading all my agora mail... 20:30:18 ais523: me too 20:30:24 ais523: that's why you sort conversations by date of last message 20:30:34 and read messages are collapsed by default 20:30:34 but what if the most recent conversation is a really long one? 20:30:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5). 20:30:48 what do you mean by "collapsed"? 20:31:07 So I'm assuming Evolution has a litany of flaws which I've never noticed? 20:31:13 ais523: reduced to a byline + date; often elided entirely and replaced by a UI element that, when clicked, expands (in the case of tons of conversations) 20:31:14 erm 20:31:16 ais523: reduced to a byline + date; often elided entirely and replaced by a UI element that, when clicked, expands (in the case of tons of messages) 20:31:22 (usually all but the first few and last few) 20:31:29 elliott_: oh, that's the state I have emails in normally 20:31:44 even so, I'd imagine a thousand-email thread would scroll other emails off the top of the screen easily 20:31:46 ais523: uh, have you ever used gmail? :P 20:31:47 ais523: except you don't see the conversation 20:31:49 CakeProphet: no 20:31:56 CakeProphet: no, I haven't 20:32:10 oh, well, it does something similar to what you guys are talking about I believe. 20:32:17 the only webmail I've used are Outlook Web Access, roundcube, and Yahoo! Mail Classic 20:32:34 which all use the sane method of one pane for the email you're looking at, and one that's just subjects/senders/etc 20:32:43 CakeProphet: i'm describing gmail's behaviour to ais523 20:32:49 except that new conversations appear at the top (but each email is at the bottom of its conversation) 20:32:51 ais523: anyway, no, that isn't the state you have emails in normally 20:32:54 elliott_: oh okay. 20:33:22 is that not like... the default behavior nowadays? 20:33:26 have I been spoiled? 20:33:34 ais523: maybe I'll switch to nmh 20:33:37 :) 20:34:16 * CakeProphet finds gmails behavior to be preferred to single email lists. 20:35:39 elliott_: also my fortress died. 20:36:16 CakeProphet: I heard; we told you you're stupid in -minecraft and gave you a bunch of pointers. 20:36:19 Read the log 20:36:29 one guy "withdrew from society" and then later went crazy and killed like 6 people with a bronze battle axe. Seemed to happen as soon as I started furnishing weapons. 20:36:34 CakeProphet: I heard; we told you you're stupid in -minecraft and gave you a bunch of pointers. 20:36:34 Read the log 20:36:35 CakeProphet, you have felt the sting of the tantrum spiral. 20:36:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:45 CakeProphet: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood 20:36:46 -!- CakeProp1et has left. 20:36:53 you did not account for the strange mood's wishes, so they went berserk 20:36:56 and you had no military to stop him 20:36:58 so you went into a tantrum spiral 20:37:01 the end 20:37:08 I had /some/ military 20:37:11 not enough 20:37:11 but by then they were tantrumming 20:37:19 CakeProphet: Protip: If you can't account for their wishes, just wall-in their workshop 20:37:24 they'll just go insane in their own little hole 20:37:24 CakeProphet, that he had an axe was a rather crippling oversight. 20:37:31 But yeah, http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood 20:37:41 whenever a weird message comes up just google it :P 20:37:53 elliott_: good call :P 20:37:59 df: meant to played with google 20:38:01 I was playing offline 20:38:09 You... won't survive without the wiki. 20:38:25 It's not like NetHack where it's orders of magnitude harder; even the DF help system points you to the wiki. 20:38:38 also my workshops were all kind of directly connected to one another in a giant room 20:38:42 like a bit workshop room... 20:38:47 so no walling in. 20:39:06 CakeProphet: It's... not hard wall someone in. 20:39:14 Just draw a square around their room. 20:39:20 It'll easily complete before they go berserk. 20:39:21 I didn't assign rooms. 20:39:38 CakeProphet: Their workshop room, FFS. 20:39:43 Read the wiki; strange mooders claim a workshop. 20:39:57 elliott_, that's not going to be a good idea if they're in a forge. 20:40:09 Phantom_Hoover: Better than a tantrum spiral. 20:40:21 elliott_: oh okay. I dealt with one of those but I didn't think the other guy claimed a workshop 20:40:40 If he withdrew from society, he did. 20:40:44 oh okay. 20:41:05 not sure how he got the bronze axe... 20:41:09 I don't think I had any bronze 20:41:11 elliott_, nope. 20:41:21 If they don't have the right workshop, they won't claim one. 20:41:25 Phantom_Hoover: Oh. 20:41:28 They'll still go insane. 20:41:34 Phantom_Hoover: Do they just wander around until they kill everyone? 20:41:42 CakeProphet, I assume he picked it up for some reason. 20:41:49 Was he near your weapons stockpiles? 20:42:09 uh it took me a while to realize what was happening so I didn't really pay much attention until there were already bloody corpses. 20:42:26 Well that's your own damn fault. :p 20:43:08 my own inexperience, perhaps. 20:43:24 in any case I don't have the time to invest into another game atm 20:43:36 though I did enjoy it. 20:43:50 the game I'm brainstorming is quite different in style though. 20:43:58 It's not a game if you die before you get set up. That's like getting mauled on the first level of NetHack and calling it a day. 20:44:13 elliott_: real life. 20:44:22 I will play later. 20:44:29 LOOOOOOSEEEEER 20:44:36 elliott_: that's how I play nethack, every time 20:45:23 elliott_: also when building workships would be better to give each of them individual rooms with furniture and stuff? 20:45:26 or does it matter> 20:45:56 CakeProphet: You... don't put furniture in workshops, as far as I know. 20:45:58 * CakeProphet didn't realize until halfway through this his officers wanted a bed. >_> 20:46:07 CakeProphet: Dude, I told you to make bedrooms for everyone. 20:46:16 I made plenty of bedrooms 20:46:23 but I didn't designate them to anyone. 20:46:23 Not enough for everyone, evidently. 20:46:27 CakeProphet: They automatically designate. 20:46:32 You have to use q to make the beds a room. 20:46:35 Then they self-designate. 20:46:37 yes I did. 20:46:52 and yeah I had a population of like 57, definitely didn't have enough rooms. 20:47:00 or beds for that matter. 20:47:04 even with multiple beds in each room. 20:47:26 That was one of the things that brought down Handlekindled. 20:47:43 but dude my dining hall was bitchin. 2 long tables with 2 kitchens and ENGRAVED AND DETAILS WALLS/FLOORS 20:47:46 yeah that's right. 20:47:49 >_> 20:47:55 Phantom_Hoover: not... really. 20:48:01 Phantom_Hoover: Our dorfs were ecstatic beforehand. 20:48:10 Bedrooms wouldn't soften the blow of having nothing to eat or drink. 20:48:17 elliott_ was too lazy to keep up room expansion, so by the time Taneb and I took over neither of us could be bothered to fix it. 20:48:26 Yes, but everybody was still really happy. 20:48:27 I think people were actually partying before the woodcutter guy went crazy. 20:48:34 so I was doing well until that point. 20:48:36 Partying happens constantly. 20:48:44 elliott_, FFS, the point is that it buffers the unhappiness. 20:48:57 Phantom_Hoover: Handlekindled was waaay too far gone for that, really. 20:49:20 elliott_, there was a lack of food and drink. That's not unrecoverable. 20:49:24 A tantrum spiral... is. 20:49:41 The tantrum spiral occurred because we flailed around trying to fix that without doing what we had to do. 20:49:43 i.e. resizing the farm. 20:49:50 Had they all had high-quality rooms, the spiral would have set in significantly later. 20:49:57 And the problem was *not* farm size. 20:50:00 Well, high quality, OK. 20:50:03 Phantom_Hoover: What /was/ it then? 20:50:13 elliott_: I had just got a massive farm working when mine happened. 20:50:29 * CakeProphet was still working on the hospital though... bad timing. :P 20:50:34 A fortress of 200 can be more than fed by 2 5x5 plots, one of which produces food only ¼ of the year. 20:50:37 and the military stuff. 20:50:42 elliott_, I don't know, but it wasn't that. 20:50:46 CakeProphet: Your farm... shouldn't be big. 20:50:52 Phantom_Hoover: Well, OK. 20:50:56 elliott_: why is that? 20:51:06 Phantom_Hoover: Let's find out that CakeProphet has filled a whole level with farm and everything was going to break anyway. 20:51:19 a very large room in one level, yes. 20:51:21 (OK, I'm going by the word of that one guy on IRC, but a large farm is totally unnecessary, so.) 20:51:28 CakeProphet: Don't do that. 20:51:44 por que? 20:51:58 CakeProphet: It might have bad effects, and it's definitely utterly unnecessary. 20:51:58 dwarves don't like hording large amounts of food? 20:52:00 CakeProphet, it's Bad, apparently. 20:52:02 You only need two tiny plots. 20:52:05 Oh, wait. 20:52:16 Plots grow more if you grow the same crop consecutively. 20:52:36 A huge plot will have far fewer plots growing over multiple seasons. 20:52:44 so then... 4-5 small plots over time? 20:52:49 one for each plant? 20:53:01 (as season permits) 20:53:19 in the long-term that is. 20:53:37 I went for 5x5 plump helmet, 5x5 plump helmet/sweet pot/cave wheat/pig tail. 20:54:11 Phantom_Hoover, what about doing 25 1x1 instead? 20:54:29 Vorpal, that would work if you want RSI, I suppose. 20:54:36 Phantom_Hoover, macros 20:55:09 Sure, but it's still pointlessly tedious. 20:55:09 Phantom_Hoover: this game seems built for RST :P 20:55:16 * 20:55:17 I 20:55:29 CakeProphet, well yes. 20:55:56 I think df with an isomeric map view and a better interface would work well. 20:56:17 err isometric* 20:56:37 DF's interface is fine, modulo some nested menus, and labours. 20:57:23 I think I actually would be better with a english-word based command interface 20:57:29 as far as memorizing commands. 20:57:36 eh 20:57:38 nah 20:58:08 elliott_, yeah assigning jobs is horrible. I use dwarftherapist for that. Starting the game in wine after each time I get a wave of immigrants to assign jobs. Then going back to native linux version. 20:58:13 CakeProphet: That would definitely give you RSI. 20:58:18 And also terminal boredom. 20:58:26 Vorpal: Uh, why WINE? 20:58:30 Vorpal: DT works on Linux, you idiot. 20:58:36 elliott_, because dwarftherapist does not work on linux 20:58:38 Yes it does. 20:58:42 It needs root for me though; works for Phantom_Hoover without. 20:58:42 elliott_, that is new then 20:58:55 elliott_: most of my time was spent tripping through menus awkwardly. 20:58:58 Vorpal: No it isn't. 20:59:01 elliott_, last I checked I had to run it under wine 20:59:23 elliott_, last I checked = maybe a year ago 20:59:33 * CakeProphet just played it on linux. 20:59:40 CakeProphet: DT, not DF. 20:59:44 Vorpal: It's been maintained since last September. 20:59:51 (DwarfTheRapist) 20:59:58 elliott_, hm 21:01:50 * CakeProphet is so leet he doesn't programs that make his life easier. 21:01:53 +need 21:02:00 I don't need verbs either. 21:02:04 fuck em. 21:02:25 Verbs, who needs them. 21:02:49 CakeProphet: It's not about maknig your life easier, it's about assigning labours in spreadsheet style rather than individually going through every single dorf in your fortress (which will number about one hundred) just to find out who's any good at mining and assigning that labour with the awful menu. 21:03:15 Phantom_Hoover, text-only image macro maker 21:03:17 Unless you think DF's main challenge is menu navigation, it isn't about hardcoreness at all. 21:03:32 elliott_: I believe what you just said is equivalent to "making your life easier" 21:03:37 elliott_, more like 150 than 100 21:04:04 CakeProphet: No, making your life easier would be something that did something actually game-relevant. 21:04:14 CakeProphet, it's not making your life easier, it's making it bearable. 21:04:24 CakeProphet: Games aren't designed with deliberately terrible menu systems to give them additional difficulty. 21:04:30 That's ridiculous. 21:04:50 uh, I think we are nitpicking here. 21:05:29 No. 21:09:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:10:21 fungot: I love you. 21:10:21 elliott_: " exactly," i ventured, " but you, randolph carter, of boston on the earth or other planets where they traded. these creatures, in numbers apparently inexhaustible, were engaged in one stupendous migration from inconceivable heights to some depth conceivably or inconceivably below. 21:10:32 ^style 21:10:32 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:10:55 Can that sword alone stop? 21:11:04 I suppose so. Can't anything happen? 21:11:14 hmm, so according to proggit, a root CA gave someone other than Google a wildcard cert for *.google.com 21:11:19 fungot, isn't Cleverbot silly? 21:11:20 Phantom_Hoover: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes. no. 21:11:33 fungot, have you finished pondering? 21:11:33 Phantom_Hoover: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun! 21:11:43 fungot, oh no, not more death threats. 21:11:44 Phantom_Hoover: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far out 21:11:52 got fun, fungot? 21:11:52 olsner: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! destroy bad man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:11:55 fungot, I don't believe in clones. 21:11:55 Phantom_Hoover: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! i owe you one! you saved the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:12:20 fungot, but anyway, can that sword alone stop? 21:12:20 Phantom_Hoover: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:12:36 fungot, first you're threatening to kill me, then you're saving me? 21:12:37 Phantom_Hoover: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 21:15:04 fungot, oh that sword 21:15:04 Vorpal: i shall help also. up down cancel left lab area right factory area caution! do not turn, now! oppose me, you...foreigners! you're worse than the gurus and miss you. 21:15:10 fungot, no? 21:15:10 Vorpal: i shall help also. let us return in time! it's a moonlight parade! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 21:15:24 fungot, yes, yes, but what about that sword? 21:15:24 Vorpal: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! 21:15:41 fungot, stop annoying me 21:15:41 Vorpal: cyrus! are you leaving! 21:15:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:17:30 fungot: What can that sword alone not stop? 21:17:30 elliott_: cyrus! are you leaving! 21:17:34 fungot: Yes. 21:17:34 elliott_: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! 21:17:38 fungot: I'm the best. 21:17:39 elliott_: but, we are far outnumbered! how can i do for you? thanks! it's about the missing queen. she still looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!? 21:17:48 fizzie: You can do for me by saying that thing. 21:17:54 i hate you 21:19:33 also apparently I shouldn't give soldiers food because they will get interrupted while eating and it will cause miasma as no one else can access it at that point. 21:20:04 fungot, well? 21:20:04 Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? 21:20:11 might have been what happened with the miasma after my spiral. guys goes crazy, interrupts people eating in kitchen, and then corpses and rotting food = miasma 21:20:19 fungot, really? 21:20:19 Vorpal: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:20:26 fungot, come on... 21:20:26 Vorpal: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun! this bridge! but, we are far outnumbered! she claims this area, and reigns from high atop the sea. now, only the 3 entities you saw will help you leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! 21:20:32 fungot, oh well 21:20:32 Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! 21:21:18 CakeProphet, that is why you section off rooms so you can close them and open a hot spare 21:21:29 forbidding the door and so on 21:21:32 why don't we all just stop talking to fungot 21:21:33 olsner: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:21:44 i'm sure fungot would like that. 21:21:44 oerjan: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. end professor's message from the professor. 21:21:46 olsner, because he hasn't mentioned the sword yet 21:21:55 fungot: mention the sword 21:21:55 olsner: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 21:22:05 fungot: not _that_ sword 21:22:05 oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:22:16 fungot: SWORD MOTHERFUCKER 21:22:17 elliott_: but, we are far outnumbered! you're the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:22:21 fungot: FUUUCK YOUUU 21:22:21 elliott_: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return to the castle! and letting these...hoodlums in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha! 21:22:23 fungot: JSDIOJOISADJIDOSNFOSJDODSIFS 21:22:24 elliott_: in the middle ages, sir slush!... smell of all the human race is doomed! mwa, ha! say, do you like plants? 21:22:25 fungot, come on 21:22:25 Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:22:26 fungot: THAT 21:22:26 elliott_: frog will do. those two are really looking forward, epoch!! fix the masamune!! 21:22:27 fungot: SWORD 21:22:28 elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's 21:22:29 fungot: ALONE 21:22:30 elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! strange, but!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle... 21:22:31 fungot: CAN'T 21:22:31 elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... 21:22:32 fungot, THAT SWORD 21:22:32 Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! 5, you mugs! 21:22:33 fungot: STOP 21:22:34 fungot: sword, do you speak it? 21:22:34 elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i'm afraid i can't allow that... beast, keepin' me locked! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided 21:22:39 I HATE YOU 21:22:40 DIE DIE DIE 21:22:44 fungot, really come on 21:22:44 Vorpal: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:22:47 fungot: OIJSDOJIOSDDJFSGUDHFF 21:22:47 elliott_: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! ha!! gotcha! heeheehee... oh, can you fix the masamune! 21:22:48 fungot, ... 21:22:48 Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! he's a no good! choose 2 different ones! you have come far, and you must now carry out his sentence. hold the l&r buttons and then press the a button to access, but stay off of " techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace? 21:22:53 fungot, no 21:22:53 Vorpal: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:22:55 fungot: I:_;AFSDOGJHDNK CANT DEAL WITH YOURT 21:22:55 elliott_: you! take! we find! 21:22:56 fungot, not that 21:22:57 Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:22:57 fungot: I want you 21:22:57 CakeProphet: you! take! we find! must report to sir krawlie what you just said!! 21:22:58 fungot: BULLSHIT 21:22:58 elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:23:03 fungot: DIE IN A VAT OF PISS 21:23:03 elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!! crono!!! help!! 7/ battle window up or down. want my advice? 21:23:07 fungot: stop 21:23:07 CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered! are you leaving! sorry, fellas! i'm empty! 21:23:07 fungot, come on 21:23:07 FireFlyNO I DONT 21:23:07 Vorpal: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! i've never even seen you with lucca! who's your pretty new friend! king guardia the xxxiii. i really enjoyed such powers... now, i know!!... smell of all the human race is doomed! mwa, ha! say, do you like plants? 21:23:13 fungot: IM CRYING IN REAL LIFE 21:23:13 elliott_: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's statue before my shift. i hate! ayla not like... 21:23:17 oerjan: BAN FUNGOT 21:23:22 fungot, ... 21:23:22 Vorpal: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca the great magus. oh! crono!! 21:23:26 fungot, come on 21:23:27 Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! no! tell us about the masamune!! 21:23:34 fungot: IM GOING TO PUNCH YO 21:23:34 fungot, you are no fun today 21:23:34 Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? petal," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " 21:23:34 fungot: the sword alone 21:23:34 elliott_: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:23:34 CakeProphet: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:23:36 what 21:23:38 what the fuck 21:23:38 Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? petal," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " 21:23:38 fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " 21:23:39 elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. 21:23:39 was that 21:23:39 fang 21:23:40 that's 21:23:41 better 21:23:42 than 21:23:44 swords 21:23:49 elliott_, agreed 21:23:53 but 21:23:54 still 21:23:56 we must 21:23:58 go on 21:24:14 http://tasvideos.org/1248M.html This might be the best-ever TAS :P 21:24:20 elliott_, oh I realise where that list come from. Since it mentioned petal 21:24:37 fungot: can't stop that sword alone sword sword sword stop stop stop alone alone alone 21:24:38 CakeProphet: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! parental discretion advised. no time to talk. we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:24:42 Gregor: It's not much of a TAS :P 21:24:44 this is about the time when fizzie mentions that he fixed the sword bug 21:24:52 elliott_, remember that thing in prehistory where you could kill enemies and get items to trade for 21:24:57 oerjan: well, evidently not since fang is still there 21:25:00 fungot: fang 21:25:00 CakeProphet: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. 21:25:03 Vorpal: ? 21:25:08 fungot: DIE TO DEATH 21:25:08 elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's 21:25:10 fungot: fang 21:25:11 elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you! 21:25:13 fungot: fang fang numberwang 21:25:13 oerjan: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return now, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world? 21:25:15 fungot: fangs in ur internal organs 21:25:15 elliott_, oh you didn't play the game? 21:25:15 elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much! good music! 21:25:20 `addquote elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you! 21:25:21 elliott_: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? 21:25:23 633) elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you! 21:25:24 fungot: its a machine that looks like you! 21:25:24 CakeProphet: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! sleep like stone statues. ' tis the masamune!!! 21:25:34 fungot: tis the masamune indeed 21:25:35 elliott_: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! huh? there's something else in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha! 21:25:47 fungot: i dont like you any more 21:25:48 elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! happy! red star! me saw! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:25:55 fungot: stop harasing me 21:25:55 elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took the gate at the fairgrounds! 21:25:57 fungot, the masamune, what about that sword 21:25:57 Vorpal: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. trader has new weapons! all gone! 21:25:59 fungot: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; 21:26:00 elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! 21:26:05 fungot, ... 21:26:05 Vorpal: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:26:07 and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! 21:26:09 fungot: and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! 21:26:10 elliott_: but cyrus! are you leaving!! my powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind? the mystics supposedly despise you! i'm leaving! 21:26:11 fungot, come on 21:26:11 Vorpal: the knight spirit has the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to t 21:26:14 .... 21:26:14 fungot the stubborn 21:26:14 Vorpal: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. 21:26:16 what 21:26:18 THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT LOOP FUCKER 21:26:25 fungot: FUCKSHIT 21:26:25 elliott_: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? sure! no thanks. yum! lemonade! vitamin c, cyrus! 21:26:29 yum! lemonade! vitamin c, cyrus! 21:26:34 elliott_, we discovered two new loops though 21:26:46 hurrah to the hero! is pretty amusing 21:26:52 fungot: your loops are failing 21:26:52 oerjan: you! take! we find! can you imagine what the inside of that armor must smell like? i'm so excited! clear, too! 21:26:54 fungot, hm 21:26:54 Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! 21:26:57 ME TOO 21:27:03 elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! 21:27:04 elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much! bring newcomers to meet me! 21:27:04 fungot, THAT SWORD. TELL ME ABOUT IT! 21:27:04 Vorpal: you! take! we find! where could sir cyrus be? miss you. this kingdom's been through a time machine! nya ha! 21:27:06 heh, direct quote 21:27:07 fungot: aum 21:27:07 oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun!! 21:27:09 repetition, i mean 21:27:11 so yeah 21:27:36 fungot: to quote, perchance to stop 21:27:36 oerjan: in the middle ages, sir slush!... 21:27:36 fungot, and the sword? 21:27:37 Vorpal: in the middle ages, sir slush!... 21:27:37 oh my god, a tas of kaizo mario 21:27:43 heh 21:27:45 that was nice 21:27:49 RNG fail 21:28:09 fungot, well the sword then? 21:28:09 Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered! 21:28:24 fungot, only because that sword alone is outnumbered 21:28:24 Vorpal: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return 21:28:35 fungot, right? wrong? decide! 21:28:35 Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible!" now, scram! just between us, i heard that magus's place... 21:28:39 fungot: i really hate you 21:28:39 elliott_: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine are as follows. the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle... 21:28:43 fungot: REPEAT THE CYCLE 21:28:43 elliott_: must think of a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:28:47 fungot: fnord 21:28:48 oerjan: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends!! jurassicnota rhythmnota you're so weaknota and i'm so rich i don't know where to find me should the need arise. bows, and guns. some frog guy dropped a shelter! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the r 21:28:50 what 21:28:50 17:29 `addquote Vorpal: the knight spirit has the hero! 21:28:50 CakeProphet: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? come to see you back again. please go and visit the king. the king fought the mystics over 400 long years. when will it be the reptites, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world? 21:28:53 hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the 21:28:55 yet another cycle 21:28:56 hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to 21:28:58 the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah 21:29:01 to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! 21:29:03 CakeProphet: ... 21:29:03 hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the 21:29:04 `help 21:29:04 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:29:06 hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! 21:29:08 17:29 CakeProphet: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't 21:29:09 CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. who disturbs my slumber? nu...! just trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! 21:29:11 stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, 21:29:12 elliott_, got the red vest! got the red vest! 21:29:19 CakeProphet: stfu 21:29:24 fungot: im a red vest 21:29:24 elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 21:29:26 crono! 21:29:34 How does fungot's RNG work? 21:29:34 Phantom_Hoover: but cyrus! are you leaving! data confirmed!' are you stupid? this is the kingdom? well come. i'm sure that crono, he'll be a hero or a chancellor... 21:29:38 Phantom_Hoover: ? 21:29:41 elliott_: yeah I didn't realize it would paste that many lines 21:29:41 fungot, stop being silly 21:29:41 Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered! crono!!! help! 21:29:51 but I got the sword alone can't stop. 21:29:52 Phantom_Hoover, either RAND or ? I assume 21:29:54 fungot: your turn 21:29:54 oerjan: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered 21:30:00 Vorpal: I think it's ? 21:30:03 CakeProphet, where? 21:30:07 fungot: ? ? 21:30:07 oerjan: you! take! we find! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the 21:30:08 Vorpal: pm 21:30:16 fungot: help? 21:30:16 CakeProphet: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:30:21 fungot: help? ? 21:30:21 CakeProphet: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:30:33 fungot: the day you stopped alone 21:30:33 elliott_, so we found several new cycles today 21:30:33 oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! my powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly! out for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! 21:30:37 fungot, ... 21:30:37 Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! empty! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 21:30:39 Vorpal: i think most of them we encountered before 21:30:44 fungot: ? ? 21:30:44 CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. 21:30:54 fungot: you are so pendantic 21:30:54 oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:30:55 Vorpal: pm <-- why? 21:30:59 fungot: are you a wizard? 21:30:59 CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much, much strong guy! 21:31:09 Vorpal: because I was going to secretly add a quote, secretly 21:31:11 fungot: are you a dragon then 21:31:11 oerjan: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! 21:31:17 elliott_, hm perhaps we did that 21:31:17 and when I tried to do so it spat out the sword loop. 21:31:21 fungot, and the sword? 21:31:21 Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! we're leaving! what you do? wake you, but need dactyl? 21:31:23 Vorpal: did what 21:31:31 Vorpal: > < > < > < > < > < < > > > < 21:31:34 CakeProphet: add a quote with fungot? 21:31:34 elliott_: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return 21:31:34 smart 21:31:36 elliott_, encounter those loops earlier 21:31:41 fungot: > < > < < < > < > > > < > < < >> 21:31:41 CakeProphet: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:31:49 fungot, yeah yeah 21:31:49 Vorpal: frog will do. you'll need to find someone that can shine! we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:31:50 elliott_: oh I thought he was the quotebot for some reaso. 21:31:53 fungot: ! 21:31:53 oerjan: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. hah! you think you are? coming and going out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:32:00 oerjan: kickban fungot if not do what we say 21:32:01 fungot, .. 21:32:01 Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! uwa, ha! say, do you like plants? 21:32:01 elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! 21:32:03 fungot: !@#)@#%)*!@#)*@%)*!@_#(!@)%!_@_!#@%*_!@*$_!@*%' 21:32:03 CakeProphet: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:32:12 fungot, YOU are not well behaved though 21:32:12 Vorpal: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i bet my children are going!! 21:32:25 fungot: crono 21:32:26 CakeProphet: the masamune! 21:32:27 fungot, no I don't need a clone, I'm in the "do not call" register 21:32:28 Vorpal: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca... the password. emergency! security and activate the sword... the masamune! 21:32:31 fungot: you have been warned 21:32:32 oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:32:45 fungot, so tell me about the masamune! 21:32:45 Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... ayla still fight? why you here?0ckino no like you! i'm leaving! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:32:49 fungot, fuck you 21:32:49 Vorpal: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! cider please! the hero has made the epoch, your wings! now this is a treasure there... found the treasure!! probably filled with mystical forest powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly! 21:32:59 fungot, ... 21:32:59 fungot hurrah 21:32:59 Vorpal: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! although we did sustain more damage. use the queen's hall. a good hit will wake you, but need dactyl? 21:32:59 CakeProphet: but cyrus! are you leaving! 21:33:04 fungot: you are so crono logical 21:33:04 oerjan: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:33:16 oerjan, ouch 21:33:17 fungot: that fucking sword alone 21:33:17 elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! fine then, can a chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:33:22 fungot, . 21:33:22 Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!? just because i have to put up with your drivel, ribbit! 21:33:23 fungot: god you are a woejiew 21:33:24 elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus!' 21:33:29 fungot: its been a while fuck you 21:33:29 elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! nirvana strike! graaaack...! how can i do for you? thanks! it's about the missing queen. she still looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!? 21:33:33 elliott_, what is a "woejiew"? 21:33:34 graaaack 21:33:38 Vorpal: sounds polish 21:33:39 fungot, stop being such a PITA 21:33:39 Vorpal: the masamune!! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:33:47 fungot: are you polished 21:33:47 oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! 21:33:48 elliott_, well you should know, you said it 21:33:54 fungot: no matter what they say I'll always love you 21:33:54 CakeProphet: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind the floor to fight the mother brain, yet! 21:33:56 fungot: the poles often were 21:33:56 oerjan: there! there it is! 21:34:03 fungot, WHERE!? 21:34:03 Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 21:34:07 fungot, ARGH 21:34:08 Vorpal: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i'm afraid i can't allow that... beast, keepin' me locked! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided t 21:34:11 MOTHER BRAIN IS GOOGLE 21:34:14 fungot, .... 21:34:14 Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:34:23 fungot, fuck you. 21:34:23 Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am, are you?! c'mon!! gotcha! 21:34:26 fungot: fuck me 21:34:26 CakeProphet: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. every night, brings a new world of good! 21:34:31 fungot, ... 21:34:31 Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! thou art and science... all to you! 21:34:39 fungot, what is it with you today... 21:34:39 Vorpal: must think of a way to the ocean palace? aren't you going?! the king hast been injured? what's the big deal? so what if we won a war out there! can't it see i love my daddy! the children are going! 21:34:51 fungot: fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot 21:34:51 CakeProphet: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale? 21:34:56 fungot, this must be a record for time on this style that you haven't mentioned the sword 21:34:56 Vorpal: you! take! we find! epoch...become bird!! 21:34:57 fungot: to stop or not to stop, that is the question 21:34:57 oerjan: the usual...test them. you can entertain us for awhile? chancellor: yes! well then rest and relax! huh? 21:35:07 oerjan, we can't give up now 21:35:12 fungot, ... 21:35:12 Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered! didn't you create him? that kino guy! much danger. open hatch. 21:35:18 fungot, create who? 21:35:18 Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... the name of time machine! nya ha! i run this town! and i'm so rich i don't know where to find me should the need arise. 21:35:22 fungot: you _will_ be put to the sword 21:35:22 oerjan: it's a machine that looks like you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:35:25 Vorpal: crono! 21:35:26 fungot, what an insult 21:35:26 Vorpal: the masamune!! after them! 21:35:29 fungot: im going to kill your mom 21:35:29 elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:35:32 ais523: can you kickban fungot thanks 21:35:33 elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! here's your allowance, dear! now, off you go! didn't you create him? that kino guy! 21:35:40 fungot: he's really a tricycle! 21:35:40 CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered! 21:35:45 fungot: alone the stop can't sword! 21:35:45 oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! there's the seed! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:35:53 fungot, ... 21:35:53 Vorpal: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:35:57 fungot: . 21:35:57 elliott_: I don't think it's done anything wrong 21:35:57 CakeProphet: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... glenn!! ...wh...what g...l...e...n...n? 21:36:03 fungot, I think the underlying RNG is failing 21:36:03 Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! 21:36:09 the people triggering it, on the other hand... 21:36:17 ais523: oerjan is an op, he validates us 21:36:19 fungot: fuck ais523 21:36:19 CakeProphet: but cyrus! are you leaving! ok. no. go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:36:20 fungot: ojfoijoijoief 21:36:21 elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! something is reacting to the pendant. take out the contents are yours? 21:36:21 ais523, ... it isn't mentioning the sword! 21:36:26 why should it? 21:36:28 fungot: im killing you 21:36:28 elliott_: of what? 21:36:31 fungot: of you 21:36:31 elliott_: you are a little nervous compulsion. behavior to petition for their own good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a si 21:36:34 fungot: don't let it get out of hand 21:36:35 STOP LOOPING OTHER THINGS 21:36:43 wat 21:36:49 fungot: a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. 21:36:49 CakeProphet: like a very clear mirror without falling in your favor again ill be here too. 21:36:56 what 21:37:03 fungot: im clean mirror 21:37:03 fungot: how dare you ignore me 21:37:03 oerjan: so, you give up, jade is my slime tube and this is a new game. there is a heavy amount of time i will say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put in the hallway. beyond a lot 21:37:04 elliott_: as a veteran of the game. then i'll put in the hallway. beyond the walls of his room. john. return, he teaches her to fly a little higher, to see if john is of course it was a nasty pair of beagle puss glasses, several () a blank card, producing a different hole in the roof 21:37:04 fungot, ... 21:37:04 Vorpal: just a tiny, custom-tailored suit is all business 21:37:07 fungot, ... 21:37:07 Vorpal: enter name. it's a title under a bed of petunias like a normal. pm showed the bq a parking citation. if confronted, you will say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put his shit up? 21:37:13 is this chrono trigger 21:37:16 i think someone changed it 21:37:19 fungot, "Vorpal" 21:37:19 Vorpal: that it makes a guest of it, much as the moon takes liberty. reason. justice. civility. edification. perfection. 21:37:24 Vorpal: check the style 21:37:28 ^style 21:37:28 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:37:32 yeah 21:37:34 thats not chrono trigger 21:37:36 fungot: what i slove? baby don 'thurt me 21:37:36 CakeProphet: the farm country, where small white cottages dream between little hills, and which came indubitably from the crevice between floor and altar where norrys was scraping away the lichens. 21:37:39 ^style ct 21:37:39 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:37:40 elliott_, who did this deed 21:37:41 fungot: THAT SWORD 21:37:41 elliott_: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. 21:37:45 fungot: ALONE CAN'T 21:37:46 elliott_: must think of a way to the ocean palace? to be king of the sewer! gribbit! there's the seed! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:37:48 fungot: STOP 21:37:48 elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right? 21:37:55 ill jump off YOUR mortal coil :( 21:38:04 ^style 21:38:04 Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:38:05 fungot, ... 21:38:05 Vorpal: and whereas, agora has now become the actual indulgence circulation level ( aicl) is referred to as a percentage; and ( only if any) who has shown 21:38:05 fungot: boing 21:38:06 CakeProphet: if that rule. this restriction to be bound by the scorekeepor to make another 21:38:08 agora is not ct 21:38:10 CakeProphet: cease 21:38:12 ^style ct 21:38:12 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:38:13 ^style ct 21:38:13 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:38:15 fungot: that sword 21:38:15 elliott_: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! 21:38:18 fungot: your sword 21:38:18 elliott_: there! there it is! 21:38:20 fungot: my sword 21:38:20 elliott_: there! there it is! 21:38:23 fungot: all our swords 21:38:24 elliott_: by this time). " now just try. i've often amused myself that way. consider this platform as our stage. good fnord and exits on both sides, if you put " is" or " all", the wardeness chimed in. 21:38:29 fungot, are belong to us 21:38:29 Vorpal: " how ever would oo do a garden without one? we make each bed three mouses and a half long, and two mouses wide." 21:38:34 ... 21:38:35 what 21:38:36 ^style 21:38:36 Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:38:38 ^style ct 21:38:38 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:38:40 stop it 21:38:41 fungot: shocking 21:38:41 oerjan: you! take! we find! 21:38:46 fungot: carpal tunnel syndrome 21:38:46 fungot: 21:38:46 CakeProphet: oh. fuck. yes. yes, i'll hold. 21:38:47 elliott_: didn't you try the uninstaller? i imported your goddamn viewtiful joe or whatever and that game is like punishment from god. hey you ball eating sons of bitches: when you make an omelette, sometimes you've got to be fucking kidding meeee. and she said " noooo! we have no record of that pre-sell ticket!" and i was nuh-uh, " ice wand!" and they'd be all- brian? 21:38:50 ^style 21:38:50 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:38:54 CakeProphet: oh. fuck. yes. yes, i'll hold. 21:38:54 elliott_: i'm really glad we're hanging out. in fact, one of the worst beatings i ever saw a man take was... he kept kicking my ass, why don't we just make a big boat, hook it up to you if you say anything else. 21:38:55 --chrono trigger 21:38:57 ^style ct 21:38:57 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:39:02 ^style 21:39:03 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:39:11 fungot, stop changing style 21:39:11 Vorpal: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! hurry!! chief okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! 21:39:17 fungot, very good 21:39:18 Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! press the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle... favorite people here!" seeing you so happy! now there's that stuffed-shirt, cyrus! 21:39:21 fungot: WOULDN'T WE ALL 21:39:21 oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! over 1300 points! let your hair down! get crazy! i'm opening a stall in leene! i thought she ate too!! 21:39:27 fungot, yes we are! 21:39:27 Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! you got the broken! the mountain of woe. it's likely that dalton came from the laboratories to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh? 21:39:34 fungot, well, thanks. 21:39:34 Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! 21:39:35 fungot: my hair is down and I am getting crazy. 21:39:35 CakeProphet: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... 21:39:39 fungot: sup 21:39:39 CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 21:39:44 fungot, yeah 21:39:44 Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! at the moonlight parade! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 21:39:51 fungot, but what about the sword 21:39:51 Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 21:39:54 ... 21:39:58 Vorpal: /msg 21:40:00 fungot: sword sword sord sord sord dorf dorf sorf sworf dworf 21:40:00 CakeProphet: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. i 21:40:01 CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered! 21:40:12 fungot: q 21:40:13 elliott_: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am, are you?! c'mon!! 21:40:23 fungot, ... 21:40:23 Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca 21:40:32 fungot: the hero alone has the power to cannot stop 21:40:32 CakeProphet: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? 21:40:40 fungot, you are not doing the right loop... 21:40:40 Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... mother must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 21:40:50 fungot, or any loop at all atm 21:40:50 Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! lavos come soon! no! tell us about the masamune! 21:40:52 fungot: sord 21:40:52 elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... 21:40:59 fungot, sword 21:40:59 Vorpal: the masamune!! 21:41:04 fungot, yes that is a sword 21:41:04 Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:41:15 fungot, uh you said that line before didn't you? 21:41:15 Vorpal: the knight spirit has. you came to see it? 21:41:20 ... 21:41:22 fungot: I don't got no fun. :( 21:41:22 CakeProphet: yes this is my second conversation i've done and they always give people the first like uh um it's some university i think it's okay 21:41:26 ^style 21:41:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:41:36 fungot, ... 21:41:36 Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! 21:41:45 fungot, well, fuck you 21:41:45 Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! go downstairs if you must know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! 21:41:53 fungot: tognuf 21:41:53 CakeProphet: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! crono...! there was nothing i could do! we must use? take off. get off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? 21:41:55 fungot, fuck ozzie too. Bastard he is 21:41:55 Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! 21:41:56 fungot: i wasnmnt talking to you 21:41:57 elliott_: ( ( uh-huh)) 21:41:58 YES 21:42:02 fungot: i hate your lunches 21:42:03 elliott_: but they also have twenty four hour deal to train a pilot that was a 21:42:03 but it was cut short 21:42:05 elliott_, ^ 21:42:08 Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! 21:42:08 Vorpal: event touring what kind of an infringement of rights 21:42:10 CakeProphet: stop changing the style, btw 21:42:12 Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! 21:42:13 elliott_: and um just a regular office worker of mine that's where she goes to a different school now mn 21:42:15 no 21:42:17 it 21:42:19 didnt loop 21:42:23 look 21:42:24 elliott_, it looped a bit. 21:42:25 elliott_: how did I change it? 21:42:25 ", crono" 21:42:27 Vorpal: look 21:42:29 no 21:42:29 elliott_, yes 21:42:31 it 21:42:33 didnt loop 21:42:35 look 21:42:37 elliott_, it "looped a bit", not far enough 21:42:37 elliott_: but they also have twenty four hour deal to train a pilot that was a 21:42:37 elliott_: ( ( my name's fnord 21:42:39 but it was cut short 21:42:41 ", crono" 21:42:47 not enough 21:42:49 CakeProphet: CakeProphet: yes this is my second conversation i've done and they always give people the first like uh um it's some university i think it's okay 21:42:50 elliott_: in the middle ages, sir slush!... ...oh well! come again! these are my friends! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:42:52 elliott_, well I'm out now 21:42:54 that's the telephone set 21:42:56 before it was homestuck 21:43:13 elliott_: but how did I change the style? 21:43:18 CakeProphet: /msg 21:43:20 CakeProphet, in /msg 21:43:21 >_> no? 21:43:25 >_> yes 21:43:27 someone else then? 21:43:34 no 21:43:40 elliott_, how do you know 21:43:46 though I like how I'm automatically targeted as such. :P 21:43:58 maybe it was....... 21:44:01 Vorpal: he pasted something from fungot in /msg earlier, we're the ones telling him to stop 21:44:02 elliott_:/ blue spaces in/ skull :) dogs. since writing/ first part :) his duty to state everything in/ worst point :) view, if confirmed, would be equally convenient; but if you call a tree or plant an individual, you have much to answer for; i never received so much praise, and their points are likewise used in attack. sir philip egerton also informs me that/ damaras are likewise fond :) keeping pets./ indians generally have 21:44:04 ais523 wouldn't do that, nor would oerjan 21:44:05 someone who thought we were doing something stupid 21:44:07 everyone else is silent 21:44:17 ^style 21:44:17 ^style 21:44:17 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:44:17 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:44:21 ^style ct 21:44:21 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:44:28 Darwin... didn't use smileys. 21:44:35 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, he did. 21:44:39 Phantom_Hoover, known bug 21:44:41 Have you ever _read_ Darwin? 21:44:46 elliott_, yes. 21:44:53 I used /msg -> I'm talking here -> ??? -> I changed the styles 21:44:54 ^style 21:44:54 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:45:02 Phantom_Hoover: Clearly not closely enough. 21:45:10 CakeProphet: you used /msg to fungot 21:45:14 and also are the kind of person to do that anyway 21:45:47 SO NAAAAAH 21:46:34 I'm hurt. ;_; 21:47:18 fungot, who is the real culprit????? 21:47:20 AHA HE IS SILENT ON THE MATTER 21:47:21 Phantom_Hoover: mr president, this morning we discussed employment in the report, mr president, first of all, it was a clear lack of democratic checks and balances, the efficient functioning of each institution contributes to the political criteria, in particular, have come out of the mire. the union must send out a message of integration and the foundation intend to draw up a comparative study between religious freedom in turk 21:47:38 fungot, am I president. 21:47:40 Phantom_Hoover: the council would not even convince a child that the united nations conference in september? in what way they could support a process of confrontation in the budgetary process and in making these auditions more systematic. furthermore, until we have the belgrade parliament in flames we know what giving a certain message in a certain way means. much more needs to be made, for example in the food industry, the nat 21:47:45 ^style ct 21:47:45 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:47:48 fungot, well 21:47:48 Vorpal: you! take! we find! 21:47:53 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:47:53 elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun! 21:47:54 fungot, and we find a sword? 21:47:54 Vorpal: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! 21:47:55 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:47:55 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:47:55 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:47:55 elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumber 21:47:56 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:47:56 elliott_: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 21:47:56 elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this world are places like that. a peaceful. hah! you think you are? coming and going out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 21:47:56 elliott_: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! thank you, crono! 21:47:56 fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf 21:48:01 fungot, yeah 21:48:01 Vorpal: w278 from a command to be `auto' or `resume' past the last location removed from anywhere in the distribution directory works; it is not documented here ( see below). the other compiler; c-intercal uses the intercal link intrudes on the control flow statements must be one decimal digit long. a rightshift can much more easily be done ( for instance 21:48:04 no 21:48:05 fungot: hi im hi 21:48:06 elliott_: the two steps into one large shift.) 21:48:08 fungot: hi im hi 21:48:08 ^style 21:48:08 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic* irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:48:08 elliott_: ( this is a marker is represented as a variable in other modern intercal compilers, into bailing out at compile time if it works. all other threads, the compiler can't figure out where it's ended up, it doesn't need to produce their own custom errors at run time ( if translating to c-intercal, except in the case of error). 21:48:12 CakeProphet: . 21:48:13 ^style ct 21:48:13 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 21:48:33 ^style 21:48:33 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:48:38 fungot, ... 21:48:38 Vorpal: you! take! we find! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 21:48:39 heh, the INTERCAL style was pinging me 21:48:44 ais523, how? 21:48:55 I have a stalkword on "INTERCAL" 21:48:56 Vorpal, it says "intercal". 21:49:06 ais523, ah 21:49:09 ^style 21:49:09 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:49:18 fungot, ... 21:49:18 Vorpal: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:49:20 what are you doing to fungot ;_; 21:49:20 monqy: after all, it is a theory that day and night is caused by the french revolution was produced by the commission of so fearful a mistake? did the right honourable baronet, and that 21:49:39 monqy, we are trying to get it to produce the "that sword alone can't stop" loop 21:49:41 fungot, day and night is one of the noted achievements of the French Revolution, yes. 21:49:42 Phantom_Hoover: you! take! we find! pipe down! i'll tell you a story, right! right. wrong! 21:49:44 fungot, ... 21:49:44 Vorpal: the masamune! 21:49:45 fungot: ja 21:49:46 elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:49:51 fungot, yes what about the masamune? 21:49:52 Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! empty! 21:50:02 fungot, fuck you 21:50:02 Vorpal: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 21:50:05 fungot: im stalk wor 21:50:05 elliott_: but cyrus! are you leaving! thou art and science... all to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him? that kino guy! 21:50:19 tricycle? I don't remember that 21:50:23 fungot, he's really a tricycle? 21:50:23 Phantom_Hoover: but, we are far outnumbered! fu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu 21:50:25 fungot: that sword 21:50:26 elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!! 21:50:28 ^style 21:50:28 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:50:31 what "hu" loop 21:50:32 wtf is that 21:50:37 fu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu 21:50:42 fungot, hu? 21:50:42 Phantom_Hoover: must think of a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 21:50:47 fu, hu, hu 21:50:51 hu hu hu 21:50:52 fungot 21:50:52 Phantom_Hoover: oznaczono jako spam oh...my...god. the aircraft. dumbass! 21:50:57 elliott_, that is a nice loop though 21:50:58 what 21:51:03 that's not ct 21:51:03 ^style 21:51:04 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:51:05 CakeProphet: 21:51:07 CakeProphet: 21:51:10 CakeProphet: 21:51:11 CakeProphet: 21:51:13 CakeProphet: 21:51:15 CakeProphet: 21:51:16 fungot, yes? 21:51:16 Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! didn't you create him? that kino guy! 21:51:17 CakeProphet: 21:51:23 Vorpal: I corrected it 21:51:39 elliott_, which style was "oznaczono jako spam" 21:51:50 fungot, hi 21:51:50 Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone 21:51:52 YES! 21:51:53 elliott_: fuck you I'm not even paying attention. 21:52:00 ais523: is it yoj 21:52:02 ais523: is it you 21:52:09 that sword alone can't stop! 21:52:11 fungot, is it ais???????? 21:52:11 Phantom_Hoover: i also thought so. then i go her house myself ba... i go buangkok i will b at simei but i feel like bring clothe eat in hall. cya! 21:52:12 (ais can't lie) 21:52:13 elliott_, we achieved our goal! 21:52:14 why does it do that 21:52:18 elliott_: ? 21:52:24 ais523: are you the one messing with the fungot style in private 21:52:24 elliott_: after i make u smile becoz someone still loves to see u smiling!! lub u! go sleep dear. nite nite. doing the counting of kills me that u don't care enough to stop me... 21:52:27 elliott_: no 21:52:32 Patashu: is it you? 21:52:36 I wasn't looking at the channel, as I said 21:52:38 ? 21:52:46 ais523: you could have been looking at a /query fungot instead :) 21:52:46 elliott_: can i use short form i left in your pigeon hole only. thepain on and miss u alot. how? hee. i wan to faster finish ur tut. no time tdy i went to work. even my dad asked mark if he was really gonna ' let' me keep me also some cafe to get a cd 21:52:49 ais523 wouldn't do that, nor would oerjan <-- hey, i _might_. 21:52:52 ok it's CakeProphet then 21:52:59 I didn't do it either 21:53:01 oerjan: only if we were annoying you and that's impossible 21:53:01 oerjan, but did you 21:53:25 oerjan: did youuuuuu 21:53:33 oerjan: DID YOU 21:53:41 i don't think he'd set it to homestuck if he was doing that anyway 21:53:44 it was probably CakeProphet 21:54:40 now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = 21:54:41 elliott_: let's not start that again." 21:54:45 :( 21:54:52 lol 21:54:53 fungot, don't you like hugs. 21:54:54 Phantom_Hoover: instead of a list of church numerals representing the expression in the given time. ( in haskell, 21:55:33 ^style 21:55:34 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:55:46 CakeProphet, sto pit 21:55:46 elliott_: I see how it is. 21:56:08 elliott_: Y U GOT2 JUDGE HOMIE? 21:56:16 CakeProphet: there is literally nobody else it could be, stop it, it's annoying 21:56:22 I TOUGHT WE FRANZ 21:56:39 fungot, are we franz? 21:56:40 Phantom_Hoover: a link at the top of the page. --user:pnoble805pat 10:00, 5 november 2007 ( utc) 21:56:45 that's also not irc. 21:56:48 friends! 21:56:50 elliott_: no, but i _might_ 21:56:59 `addquote now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 21:57:00 Vorpal: use the ' ' ' delete later'". the root ' rb doesn't have anything to do with the island. extra leaders chamberlain and fnord should be removed. fnord 06:40, 6 jan 2005 ( utc 21:57:02 634) now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 21:57:29 `delquote 634 21:57:31 ​*poof* 21:57:33 violates international quoting standards 21:57:45 elliott_, what standards are those 21:57:45 `addquote now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 21:57:46 Phantom_Hoover: sorry, i mean fnord. this is to recognize that ' ' ' 21:57:47 634) now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 21:57:53 elliott_, besides it *was* funny 21:58:09 intergalactic quoting standards of DOOM 21:58:10 violates intl. quoting standards, exercise 9: tell me which 21:58:10 see, Phantom_Hoover agreed 21:58:21 Vorpal, SPOT THE DIFFERENCE 21:58:37 Phantom_Hoover, extra space, why 21:58:45 Vorpal, because fungot tell him why 21:58:46 Phantom_Hoover: ninja-to: a short neck, along with the monster was responsible for the guard. each of the race mentioned above. 21:59:03 Phantom_Hoover, because nethack?? 21:59:08 it's easy to spot the difference; it is in a different spot 21:59:12 ^style 21:59:12 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:59:31 fungotto-san 21:59:31 oerjan: they say that kicking a heavy statue is really good. the food, not because they ever get tired. fresh whole tripe calls for a long, single-edged samurai sword with a general a zen buddhism koan) 21:59:47 im a shfungotejd 21:59:48 elliott_: what a total piece of shite. 21:59:54 that's not nethack. 21:59:58 ^style 21:59:58 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube* 21:59:59 fungot, that is highly irresponsible nethack advice. 22:00:00 Phantom_Hoover: the go daddy ad, firth is audi ad. 22:00:01 fungot is a fun shoggoth 22:00:02 oerjan: it's official, britain's definitely got talent but could learn the real her is still angry that president bush is ten times better than that. 22:00:09 help whos styleing 22:00:12 Phantom_Hoover, are you changing the style? 22:00:13 is it cake problet 22:00:16 CakeProphet: remember that /query window you made with fungot? please go there, select the whole irc window, and paste it into a pastebin without scrolling 22:00:17 elliott_: looks like captain price to be a hard claim to back up the info yourself: look up a bit it would be too supernatural? meme pas foutu de faire un simple copier coller... ca me saoule des blaireaux comme ca!! 22:00:21 including all the irssi interface elements 22:00:26 thanks, expected in under sixty seconds 22:00:28 Phantom_Hoover, rumours.false 22:00:34 elliott_: it's been gone for several minutes now. 22:00:47 CakeProphet: no it hasn't 22:00:56 ? 22:01:04 the style changed more recently than that 22:01:08 elliott_, I think Phantom_Hoover did it 22:01:09 lol 22:01:12 circular logic is circular. 22:01:16 Vorpal: it isn't him 22:01:23 elliott_, how can you be so sure? 22:01:38 because he doesn't have the dedication to do something for that long 22:01:45 heh 22:01:51 elliott_, that excludes you too I guess 22:02:01 also me 22:02:05 ok it was Phantom_Hoover 22:02:07 fungot should say who changed the style.... 22:02:07 monqy: by the magnitude of posts here alone, not about the video... to me. 22:02:08 im betray 22:02:13 elliott_, it was him? 22:02:17 apparently :P 22:02:17 hm 22:02:22 elliott_, he told you? 22:02:29 yes im EXPOSE THE TRUTH 22:02:31 i forgot that because he doesn't have the dedication to do something for that long 22:02:38 doesnt apply if the goal is getting me to make myself look like an idiot :D 22:02:55 elliott_, I thought you were like friends? 22:02:59 I'd've stopped if he hadn't started accusing CakeProphet. 22:03:00 hey fizzie when someone changes the style in fungot you should make it message the channel and append the sender of the message thanxe..................... 22:03:01 elliott_: by the best 22:03:02 so it has to be a sufficiently lofty goal, check 22:03:06 Phantom_Hoover, XD 22:03:07 It was so funny I couldn't help myself. 22:03:11 Vorpal: you don't understand modern teenager friendship. you're just too out of touch bro 22:03:13 @slap Phantom_Hoover 22:03:13 * lambdabot pulls Phantom_Hoover through the Evil Mangler 22:03:19 ooh nice 22:03:24 elliott_: I TOUGHT WE /FRANZ.=&==/ 22:03:28 @slap CakeProphet 22:03:28 go slap CakeProphet yourself 22:03:29 elliott_, ah perhaps 22:03:30 :( 22:03:37 @slap lambdabot 22:03:37 * lambdabot pokes lambdabot in the eye 22:03:49 uh he needs to see a doctor 22:03:51 @vixen Let that be a lesson to you. 22:03:51 what are you 22:03:55 > ':':fix('(':) 22:03:56 ":(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((... 22:04:00 @vixen 22:04:00 You complete me 22:04:04 @vixen indeed 22:04:04 Most guys don't understand me, but we really seem to connect. 22:04:05 @vixen Clue's in the name. 22:04:05 My instant messenger doesn't work. 22:04:12 I thought vixen replied in lowercase 22:04:27 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:04:27 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:04:37 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly). 22:04:42 @vixen what is love? 22:04:42 let's don't talk about that 22:04:46 elliott_: what just happened there. 22:04:46 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw <-- what? 22:04:49 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:04:49 Exception: <> 22:04:50 @vixen What is grammar? 22:04:50 why don't you guess? 22:05:02 Vorpal: yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:08 elliott_, what is that 22:05:09 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:09 Exception: <> 22:05:15 elliott_, and how can you remember it 22:05:18 Vorpal: yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:19 @vixen Are you a fish? 22:05:19 i think you know the answer to that one, silly 22:05:20 @vixen Why don't you work. 22:05:20 What is your favorite cheese? Mines baloney. 22:05:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:05:29 ?abc 22:05:29 Maybe you meant: arr ask bf ghc rc src 22:05:32 ?? 22:05:34 ?what 22:05:34 @where , return element associated with key 22:05:39 ?.....asdkwahgakdsjf 22:05:39 Unknown command, try @list 22:05:42 @list 22:05:42 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 22:05:42 yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:56 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:56 "\"" 22:05:58 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:05:58 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:06:00 @vixen I am not ral gud at dayts what is the dayt 22:06:00 nothing good is on TV 22:06:01 okay... 22:06:03 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:03 Just 'J' 22:06:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:04 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:04 Exception: <> 22:06:09 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:06:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:06:10 elliott_, wtf *is* yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw for 22:06:13 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:13 Exception: <> 22:06:14 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:14 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\" 22:06:15 who was yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:19 im yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:20 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to yhjulwwiefzojcbx. 22:06:27 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:27 "\"" 22:06:28 no you aren't 22:06:30 -!- yhjulwwiefzojcbx has changed nick to elliott. 22:06:33 you are yhjulwwiefzojcbx 22:06:38 which is shorter 22:06:38 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 22:06:38 -!- elliott has joined. 22:06:41 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:41 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:41 "\"" 22:06:41 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:06:41 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:42 "\"" 22:06:42 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:42 Exception: <> 22:06:42 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:42 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:06:47 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to Hammurabi. 22:06:58 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:06:58 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:07:00 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:07:00 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:07:00 -!- Hammurabi has changed nick to Hammerabi. 22:07:01 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:07:01 Just 'J' 22:07:02 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:07:02 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:07:03 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:07:03 Exception: <> 22:07:04 ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:07:04 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\" 22:07:06 ?quote 22:07:06 shachaf says: boost::lambda: The ultimate error message. 22:07:25 -!- Hammerabi has changed nick to Hammurabi. 22:07:28 ?quote 22:07:28 LinusTorvalds says: The slogan of Subversion for a while was 'CVS done right', or something like that, and if you start with that kind of slogan, there's nowhere you can go. There is no way to do 22:07:28 CVS right. 22:07:37 ?v 22:07:37 Just 'J' 22:07:39 ?v 22:07:40 Just 'J' 22:07:40 hi. 22:07:42 ?v 22:07:42 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\" 22:07:44 ?v 22:07:44 Just 'J' 22:07:47 ?v 22:07:47 Exception: <> 22:07:49 well 22:07:53 ?sup 22:07:53 Maybe you meant: bug map run slap src 22:08:00 ?y 22:08:00 Maybe you meant: yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow . ? @ v 22:08:06 ?yow 22:08:06 Couldn't find fortune file 22:08:06 ?quote 22:08:06 megeria says: i am so new to haskell that i still have the new car smell 22:08:12 ?keal 22:08:12 the [nsa] even make light green both ways once 22:08:14 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:08:14 "\"" 22:08:25 ?/ pl keal 22:08:25 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 22:08:27 ?. pl keal 22:08:27 today's 24 hour project was supposed to be logical overloading using plegm method 22:08:33 ?. pl v 22:08:33 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 22:08:36 ?quote 22:08:36 mattam says: [Monads are] much more elegant [than soccer] in general. 22:09:03 ?quote 22:09:03 Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list 22:09:07 :'( 22:09:11 not good 22:09:22 ggood quote 22:09:26 ?quote 22:09:27 Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list 22:09:28 ?quote 22:09:28 Data.Numbers.Primes says: The number 6 is a good value to pass to this function. 22:09:44 aha I found out the story of yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:09:53 ?help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:09:53 V RETURNS! 22:09:58 ?help v 22:09:58 let v = show v in v 22:09:59 monqy, by googling 22:10:12 the first result was someone telling sgeo to do ?help on it right 22:10:15 or was that just for me 22:10:19 monqy, further down 22:10:26 im lazey 22:10:34 monqy, apperently v used to be an internal variable that did strange things when printed when evaluating expressions 22:10:41 "strange things" 22:10:41 so they renamed that variable to yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:10:44 Vorpal discovers fix 22:10:52 elliott, hm? 22:11:16 elliott, I'm just checking what I found by googling 22:11:17 Vorpal: fix 22:11:21 elliott, http://itarchive.org/7410/116 22:11:29 olsner, I see 22:11:41 this could be wrong though 22:12:00 that looks like a mangled copy of the #haskell irc logs 22:12:15 olsner, yeah was the only one I found describing it though 22:12:15 hmm, I've forgotten how to write N3 22:12:25 elliott, press N then press 3 22:12:29 Vorpal: the original logs from then are still kept by some log keepers 22:12:48 olsner, well anyway, is that story behind that command correct? 22:12:53 Vorpal: no 22:12:57 elliott, ah 22:13:03 to answer and question 22:13:09 elliott, so the real story was? 22:13:11 > let v = take 9 (show v) in v 22:13:12 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\" 22:13:15 > let v = Just (head (show v)) in v 22:13:16 Just 'J' 22:13:16 ah 22:13:23 > let v = take 9 [head (show v)..] in v 22:13:24 "\"#$%&'()*" 22:13:33 :t v 22:13:33 Expr 22:13:37 irrelevant 22:13:39 ...i think it would be > show v, then 22:13:45 > show v 22:13:46 oerjan: yes 22:13:46 argh wrong window 22:13:46 "v" 22:13:56 > show q 22:13:57 "q" 22:13:59 hm 22:14:01 oh well 22:14:03 > x+9 / q 22:14:04 x + 9 / q 22:14:07 > sum [x+9 / q..] 22:14:08 *Exception: not a number 22:14:15 > sum (take 9 [(x+9 / q)..]) 22:14:16 *Exception: not a number 22:14:17 Vorpal: that feature is long since gone 22:14:18 huh 22:14:39 > yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 22:14:40 Not in scope: `yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw' 22:14:42 :'( 22:14:55 esoteric is having a tantrum spiral. 22:15:00 oerjan, right. But what did it do actually 22:15:03 A libray for generating circuits for Xilinx FPGAs with layout. 22:15:08 oh coooOOOOoooooOOOooOOOooOOOooOOoooOOOooOOOooOOOoooOOooOOOoooOOoooooooOOoooooooooooooOOOooooooooOOOooooOOoooool 22:15:13 maybe ill actually write redsynth 22:15:19 Vorpal: i told you 22:15:24 elliott, fix? 22:15:26 > let v = take 9 (show v) in v 22:15:26 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\" 22:15:26 > let v = Just (head (show v)) in v 22:15:26 Just 'J' 22:15:26 ah 22:15:27 > let v = take 9 [head (show v)..] in v 22:15:28 elliott, that was all? 22:15:29 "\"#$%&'()*" 22:15:32 Vorpal: ffs 22:15:34 lambdabot code: 22:15:51 result <- run_haskell_file ("let v = " ++ expr ++ " in print v") 22:15:53 send_to_irc result 22:15:57 elliott, aha 22:16:00 > show v 22:16:05 "\"\\\"... 22:16:11 elliott, right. XD 22:18:40 * SimonM: People don't seem to believe me when I say this. In 22:18:40 retrospect we shouldn't have called it forkOS, we should have 22:18:40 called it forkReallyExpensiveOnlyNecessaryForCallingOpenGL_IO. 22:18:40 good quote 22:21:17 > v + 1 22:21:18 v + 1 22:22:17 > v ** v 22:22:18 v**v 22:22:27 > v^v 22:22:29 > fix (v**) 22:22:32 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:22:33 v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**... 22:22:44 > v^4 22:22:46 v * v * (v * v) 22:22:48 Hammurabi: *MWAHAHAHA* (aka, that's why i didn't use that) 22:22:48 elliott: I take it forking into multiple processes in Haskell is mostly a bad idea because there are more idiomatic ways to do the equivalent of threads? 22:23:07 ais523: you don't know what forkOS does :) 22:23:15 no, I don't 22:23:22 well, your question makes assumptions about what forkOS does 22:23:25 I'm just asking a vaguely related question 22:23:31 it implies it makes assumptions 22:23:36 forkIO creates a spark; forkOS creates an OS thread 22:23:37 isn't forkOS basically forking an OS thread? 22:23:40 yes, 22:23:41 but doesn't explicitly create any 22:23:43 OS threads are incredibly slow 22:23:46 sparks are nearly free 22:23:47 -!- Hammurabi has changed nick to CakeProphet. 22:23:59 Hammurabi: ** is a method, so can be redefined for the Expr type, while ^ is a function which requires its second argument to actually work as a proper Integral 22:24:01 forkOS is only required when using thread-local storage via the FFI, or when a library demands all calls be made from one thread 22:24:09 e.g. SDL, OpenGL 22:24:11 , GTK 22:24:24 oerjan: yes I understand that I just wasn't sure what the result of ^ would be. 22:24:24 and only for that one thread 22:24:31 most of libc, in fact 22:24:35 > pred v 22:24:35 pred v 22:24:47 do sparks sometimes translate into OS threads? or are they always done internally? 22:24:52 most of libc, in fact 22:24:54 no? 22:25:01 ais523: and sparks are basically threadpooled 22:25:16 there are all those _r functions 22:25:22 oh, hmm 22:25:26 no, threads are separate 22:25:36 yeah, there's a thread pool, /and/ a spark pool 22:25:37 to replace non-threadsafe non-recursionsafe libc functions 22:25:43 ais523: here's a pretty diagram: http://i.imgur.com/f57Hm.png 22:25:53 elliott: forkIO doesn't create just a spark, par does that. afair. 22:25:59 oerjan: see two lines ago 22:26:07 ais523: and "As a result sparks are very cheap (you might have billions of them in a program, while you probably won't have more than a million Haskell threads, and less than a dozen OS threads on half a dozen cores)." 22:26:11 can you communicate between sparks? 22:26:21 my guess is no 22:26:26 no, I think that's the main thing defining them 22:26:34 there's all sorts of parallel strategies you can do 22:26:37 but threads are green threads, unless using forkOS 22:26:51 oerjan: they still run on multiple threads, though 22:26:54 (http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parallel/3.1.0.1/doc/html/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html) 22:27:02 (that () is for my statement about strategies) 22:27:03 ais523: they're pure code, so no 22:27:03 you can communicate with IORefs, MVars, and TVars and such yet? 22:27:05 *yes 22:27:09 "green" means "done using stack manipulation tricks not things like processes", right? 22:27:14 CakeProphet: using :: a -> Strategy a -> aSource 22:27:14 Evaluate a value using the given Strategy. 22:27:14 x `using` s = runEval (s x) 22:27:16 sparks are pure 22:27:20 oerjan: that was my guess 22:27:21 CakeProphet: all those require a monad 22:27:26 ais523: oerjan's use of green is a bit misleading 22:27:29 sparks don't 22:27:30 ais523: they're lightweight threads 22:27:34 ah, right 22:27:46 ais523: green usually means "lightweight threads with no OS thread pooling" 22:27:53 well, that's my impression 22:28:05 elliott: oh right, so only cooperative ones are green? 22:28:06 but you _only_ need forkOS when you need to deal with other libraries 22:28:12 oerjan: perhaps we are talking about different things then. I was talking about forkIO and thread communication. 22:28:15 :t forkIO 22:28:17 I remember teaching students how to create lightweight threads using the signal handler hack 22:28:17 Not in scope: `forkIO' 22:28:19 @hoogle forkIO 22:28:19 Control.Concurrent forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId 22:28:24 oerjan: well, or preemptive but done in the language VM? 22:28:34 oerjan: forkIO uses the IO monad. 22:28:36 CakeProphet: ah forkIO can use all those. i thought you were talking about sparks still 22:28:41 oerjan, elliott, in erlang green threads are used to refer to the erlang threads sometimes. They are run on one or more scheduler threads (those are OS level threads) 22:28:57 oerjan: oh, no I don't know what those are. :P it involves par though right? 22:28:58 "On a multi-core processor, native thread implementations can automatically assign work to multiple processors, whereas green thread implementations normally cannot.[1][2]" 22:28:58 so I would say oerjan's usage is fine. 22:29:02 Vorpal: then that is non-standard terminology 22:29:17 Vorpal: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parallel/3.1.0.1/doc/html/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html is preferable to using par directly most of the time 22:29:38 elliott, fairly common though. Green threads are scheduled by native threads scheduled by the OS 22:29:51 Vorpal: those are lightweight threads 22:30:07 elliott, have been called green threads since the days before erlang supported SMP 22:30:18 I was under the impression "lightweght" and "green" were the same in that context. 22:30:29 CakeProphet, same 22:30:31 Vorpal: then that's just a continuation of outdated terminology 22:30:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-weight_process 22:30:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_threads 22:30:49 "There are some other virtual machine programming languages that still implement equivalents of green threads instead of native threads. Examples: 22:30:49 Haskell" 22:30:52 or maybe this article is just shit 22:31:27 elliott, "In computer programming, green threads are threads that are scheduled by a virtual machine (VM) instead of natively by the underlying operating system." <-- yep true. It is just that the VM schedules them on several different underlying OS threads. 22:31:44 sigh 22:34:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:38:48 hmm, is log-structured storage just storing diffs instead of modifying the original data? 22:38:51 (ais523?) 22:39:23 elliott: "log-structured"? 22:39:55 ais523: ok, I picked the wrong person to ping 22:40:04 I think so 22:41:14 ability to undo changes at the expense of more storage required and more expensive reads. 22:42:05 CakeProphet: that does not answer my question, and I don't know of any self-branded log-structured storages that offer undos 22:42:13 unless crash recovery counts, which isn't quite the same thing 22:42:44 hmm, is log-structured storage just storing diffs instead of modifying the original data? <-- I think it stores changes sectors (for log structured file systems at least) but don't quote me on that 22:43:15 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:15 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:15 -!- chickenzilla has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:15 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:15 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:20 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:20 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:20 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:28 elliott, and try nilfs2, it offers undo by mounting old versions of the file system. 22:43:44 Vorpal: so instead of having 9 sectors on your disk, it has 9n, where n is the length of the log? 22:43:57 to read, it reads the last log entry; to write, it appends the new data to the log, or overwrites the oldest entry if there's no space? 22:44:13 elliott: I'm thinking of versioning file systems, actually. like files-11 22:44:26 elliott, uh. Well if you changed sector 4 then only that one would have to be stored again. Well block rather, they tend to be larger than disk sectors these days 22:44:34 Vorpal: and then crash recovery is just reverting the most recent change (for fs-wide, not sector-wide values of "most recent"), until it's consistent? 22:44:48 elliott, that I don't know. 22:44:51 elliott, uh. Well if you changed sector 4 then only that one would have to be stored again. Well block rather, they tend to be larger than disk sectors these days 22:44:55 what did i say that contradicted this? 22:45:22 elliott, well you said 9n, if you changed one of those sectors it wouldn't be 9*2 but more like 9+1 22:45:28 plus some metadata 22:45:49 elliott, anyway that is my understanding of them. But don't quote me on it 22:45:50 it has 9n storage globally 22:45:55 also, SCO have just lost their appeal against Novell, which will probably actually shut down the court cases 22:45:56 because the disk has 9 sectors, and a log has a fixed length 22:45:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:46:00 their only appeal left now is to the Supreme Court 22:46:05 elliott, oh I meant for a file of 9 sectors 22:46:07 ais523: sounds good to me 22:46:10 any bets on whether they'll try it or not? 22:46:22 Vorpal: you didn't say anything about files, you just talked about sectors; Btree stuff has sectors too, not just files 22:46:27 so it's one log per file? 22:46:31 ais523, no, I say it is 50/50 on that 22:46:43 ais523: I'll bet 99 pounds they don't 22:46:49 ais523: because the enjoyment of them doing so is worth 99 pounds to me 22:46:50 elliott, I meant that it stores sectors you changed again, not diffs of them 22:46:55 and the 99 pounds will help soften the blow if they don't 22:47:15 elliott, but I only studied log structured file systems a tiny bit 22:47:16 in future, lawyers should probably not agree to be paid in advance 22:47:21 Vorpal: that's just a sector-based diff 22:47:26 regardless of how many appeals 22:47:31 elliott, well yeah 22:47:42 ais523: I'd feel bad for them if they didn't deserve it 22:48:17 elliott, I read somewhere that the problem of write leveling in SSDs is very similar to the problems encountered in implementing log structured filesystems. 22:49:04 elliott, and that TRIM provides the SSD with the knowledge that space can be reused, which a file system has anyway. But a SSD can't know as easily. 22:49:39 I expect it to go to the Supreme Court, and after that to various international courts. And maybe after that the interplanetary court. 22:49:52 ais523, heh 22:50:26 I just want to know what log-structured storage is exactly; my current perception is: Each file is not stored as its sectors directly, but a fixed-size buffer of (sectornum,data); writes are done by appending (overwrite oldest entry if no space), reads are done by picking the most recent change with the right sector number 22:50:56 the question is, how do you use this for crash recovery? for each file, store a "latest consistent state" number, and only increase it on fsync() of a whole file change? 22:50:58 elliott, check wikipedia? 22:51:03 Vorpal: I did; it was unhelpful 22:51:15 elliott, check how nilfs2 is implemented? 22:51:34 why nilfs? you've mentioned it twice so far 22:51:38 but it's the first I've heard of it 22:51:50 hmm, or maybe I heard of it once before 22:52:02 but anyway, that's stupid, I'm not going to dig around huge linux production code to find the definition of a simple conecpt 22:52:08 elliott, because it is in the linux kernel, it is modern, and it is log structured, and it provides undo by snapshot mounting 22:52:42 elliott, anyway I can't help you further I'm afraid. You reached the end of my knowledge on the subject 22:53:18 I don't see why which kernel it is in matters if I'm not going to run it; and you expect me to understand a modern, complex filesystem without knowing the definition of its core concept?; so are other filesystems, presumably; k. 22:53:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:53:35 -!- chickenzilla has joined. 22:53:35 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:53:35 -!- fungot has joined. 22:53:35 -!- aloril has joined. 22:53:35 -!- clog has joined. 22:53:35 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:53:51 elliott, oh, I assumed you had the kernel source locally? 22:54:08 that was the reason 22:54:19 oh right, you don't build your own kernels do you? 22:54:40 Downloading a tarball is not a high barrier to entry. I think I have a Linux tarball around here somewhere, though. 22:56:12 -!- sliddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:57:37 I have the kernel source via the package manager 22:57:45 there are kernel source packages that just unpack in /usr/src 22:57:55 as build dependencies for kernel modules 22:58:13 dear slicehost: stop emailing me about your upcoming death, I don't pay you anything or use your products 22:58:14 (mostly they just need kernel headers, but full kernel source is needed sometimes) 22:58:15 That's rude <-- well if i knew you were going to _speak_... 22:58:30 elliott: has it been completely absorbed into Rackspace, now? 22:58:36 poor _0x44 22:58:40 oerjan: ooh, paste logs :P 22:58:44 ais523: it's going to be 22:59:03 15:03:25 * oerjan now imagines logarithmic structure of diffs. 22:59:03 15:03:32 argh 22:59:03 15:04:39 just me and the finns 22:59:03 15:05:15 --- quit: oerjan (Quit: leaving) 22:59:03 15:06:13 That's rude 22:59:04 ais523: which is probably not entirely a bad thing, because their offerings have been ridiculously subpar for years now 22:59:17 oh, http://www.slicehost.com/ no longer lists their servers, and is all about rackspace cloud servers 22:59:19 so i guess it's happened 22:59:22 ever since they were bought in the first place? 22:59:34 ais523: nope, they just never changed their offerings for years 22:59:38 ais523: and everyone else's got better 22:59:44 need to figure out what to do with these 1,500,000,000 bytes that I have 22:59:45 elliott: fortunately there were one logbot on each side of the split 22:59:45 I suppose linode is the new equivalent to what slicehost used to be 22:59:51 ais523: prgmr :P 23:00:02 slicehost used to be the service that nobody knows about but everyone recommends because they're really cheap 23:00:04 prgmr's a bit more bare-metal, according to articles I've been reading 23:00:06 and high-quality 23:00:15 ais523: slicehost offers the exact same amount of access to your server, i.e. ssh 23:00:16 That's rude <-- well if i knew you were going to _speak_... <-- from where? 23:00:26 the only extra thing they have is, umm, they also offer DNS, and let you reflash the server with a new OS 23:00:27 Vorpal: from the other side of the netsplit 23:00:27 oh the other side of the split? 23:00:28 whereas, say, linode actually have support, etc 23:00:39 and prgmr aim for pure value 23:00:40 ais523: prgmr have support too, it's just four dollars a month worth of it 23:00:56 ais523: but, well, obviously prgmr isn't identical to slicehost, but I think linode is an inaccurate comparison, because linode have been around much longer 23:01:00 and are very well-known 23:01:26 yep, I see 23:01:33 I thought slicehost were the best-known 23:01:44 perhaps I've just grown up around weird people 23:02:09 "grown up"? 23:02:12 elliott, was slicehost VPS only? 23:02:16 or did it have colo? 23:02:29 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- chickenzilla has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 23:02:29 Vorpal: vps 23:02:32 ah 23:02:34 albeit, vps up to fifteen gigs of RAM 23:02:39 elliott, that is why I never heard of it. 23:02:42 slicehost added bigger and bigger plans rather than making their cheap ones better 23:02:43 bye bye 23:02:44 elliott, 15? why not 16? 23:03:37 I don't think individual people, as opposed to businesses, use colo very often 23:03:54 ais523, what about dedi then? 23:04:10 even that's typically overkill 23:04:13 although a little more reasonable 23:04:33 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:04:33 -!- chickenzilla has joined. 23:04:33 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:04:33 -!- fungot has joined. 23:04:33 -!- aloril has joined. 23:04:33 -!- clog has joined. 23:04:33 -!- fizzie has joined. 23:04:38 hm 23:04:43 colo is pointless unless you're running an isp 23:04:48 (in the internet service provider sense) 23:04:49 *1,500,000,000,000 23:04:50 ais523, and renting your own rack? 23:04:58 (just kidding) 23:05:11 er... 23:05:12 lol 23:05:17 * CakeProphet can do math. 23:05:28 oerjan: logarithmic trees of diffs sounds like a really nice thing for scapegoat, but I'm not sure what it means 23:05:31 Vorpal: renting an entire rack would be massive overkill for anything but medium-to-large companies, and only then if they were in a business where it was a plausible thing to do 23:05:39 ais523, I know someone who rents a rack though. He runs a VPS company. 23:05:50 Vorpal: yes, that actually makes sense 23:06:11 as renting out VPS is one of the situations where you need an otherwise implausibly large number of servers 23:07:37 elliott: basically you'd save diffs between revisions 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 0 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 2 and 4, 0 and 4, so you can always change between any two revisions in logarithmic time of their distance. just something that popped into my mind from the word "log", for all i know everyone already does that. 23:08:22 oerjan: a similar idea to a skiplist? 23:08:23 specifically, you have diffs between revisions k*2^n and (k +- 1)*2^n 23:08:47 ± 23:08:50 yay, it's in my compose 23:08:53 25403 root 20 0 253m 148m 78m R 34 4.0 39:38.80 Xorg 23:08:53 I've wanted that key for ages 23:08:55 what are you doing... 23:09:02 also, I have × too 23:09:04 this is great! 23:09:12 ais523: i don't recall what a skiplist is 23:09:30 neither do I, exactly, but it's something like that 23:10:35 oerjan, for a file system I think it would be acceptable to just store original file in full, the current file in full and diffs from 0-1,1-2,2-3 and so on. That optimizes for reading current version and writing new versions, while still keeping small space. Accessing older versions would probably not be as common as accessing the last one 23:11:15 Vorpal: well this idea was specifically to limit the time to go between arbitrary revisions 23:11:21 oerjan, ah yeah 23:11:49 oerjan: i will reply once i read your lines (this will be within a minuet or so), helpful messages from elliott 23:12:06 * oerjan imagines elliott dancing around his room 23:14:18 "we are releasing new versions of Firefox for desktop (3.6.21, 6.0.1, 7, 8, and 9)" 23:14:24 VERSION NUMBERS DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT 23:14:30 google keeps adding annoying features, it now gives a spelling warning for my already correctly spelled minuet 23:15:17 i suppose it's reasonable given why i googled it 23:15:42 ais523: the traditional versioning system doesn't work very well, though 23:15:50 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:16:16 -!- elliott has joined. 23:17:18 ais523: i think you're supposed to add "GOODNIGHT." 23:17:29 *+. 23:17:55 elliott: well that one makes even less sense 23:18:05 very little HD throughput, high CPU usage 23:18:13 must be because my hard drive is encrypted? 23:18:29 CakeProphet: or because you're doing something that isn't I/O-bound? 23:18:34 -!- elliott_ has joined. 23:18:38 no, it's because it's all being rerouted to the NSA 23:18:41 23:07:37: elliott: basically you'd save diffs between revisions 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 0 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 2 and 4, 0 and 4, so you can always change between any two revisions in logarithmic time of their distance. just something that popped into my mind from the word "log", for all i know everyone already does that. 23:18:44 oh that's pretty 23:18:46 ais523: sg could do that :) 23:18:49 ais523: rather than storing full contents of files 23:18:50 (for speed) 23:18:55 ais523: I'm currently moving 77 GBs of music to a 1.5 TB external hard drive 23:19:07 ah, I see 23:19:07 CakeProphet: Encryption takes 0 CPU 23:19:17 elliott_: perhaps plausible 23:19:19 what about decryption? 23:19:25 ais523: Encryption/decryption is much less expensive than a disk operation 23:19:26 as that is what I am currently doing. 23:19:32 that's why HD encryption is irrelevant 23:19:32 elliott_: depends on whether it's hardware encryption or not, I suppose 23:19:33 speed-wise 23:19:36 ais523: no 23:19:41 ais523: disks are /really really slow/ 23:19:42 CPUs aren't 23:19:49 and whether they encrypted the whole thing at once 23:19:56 although that would be silly 23:20:04 (I mean, needing to decrypt the whole disk just to access one file) 23:20:09 a CPU is twiddling its thumbs when the HD is being read, decrypting a few kilobytes won't stop that boredom 23:20:21 isn't a CPU running other processes while waiting for the HD? 23:20:38 yes, but thread-switching happens anyway 23:20:39 GPUs run other threads merely while waiting for memory accesses to happen 23:20:45 and encryption/decryption of a small amount of data is cheap 23:20:55 lol skype is using all of my CPU 23:20:58 so. fucking. buggy. 23:20:58 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:21:06 haha skype 23:21:21 KILLALL SKYPE 23:21:24 ais523: anyway, I'm not so sure firefox's versioning system makes no sense 23:21:36 the people who get confused by it usually seem to be techies 23:21:46 I just can't figure out why they have three different independent alphas 23:21:47 who are a rather bad sample 23:22:04 ais523: have you heard of branches? 23:22:06 (presumably 7/8/9 are alpha because the version number stayed the same upon a change) 23:22:13 elliott_: yes, but normally they're for different purposes than that 23:22:20 ais523: the work being done on 9 will presumably be about new faetures and things that can break a lot 23:22:25 I can imagine two alphas because of feature freeze branch 23:22:28 whereas 7 will be bugfixes and modest improvements 23:22:32 but not really more than that 23:22:32 and 8 will be somewhere in-between 23:22:51 ais523: firefox has always had separate branches for versions 23:22:54 are changes being pulled from 7 into 8, and 8 into 9? then it makes a bit more sense 23:23:09 branches for stable versions also makes sense, so you can backport security fixes, etc 23:23:19 ais523: well, the question is, have they ever been? 23:23:28 either way, this is no /less/ sane 23:23:42 ais523: I suspect they do merging nearer release time 23:23:49 but I'm not a Mozilla dev, so I don't know 23:25:38 elliott_, hd encryption does slow down for other processes a bit. Since time spent decrypting could otherwise be used to compute stuff for other tasks. That is of course a rather specialised situation (will only matter when load without encryption would be close to 100% utilization). 23:25:49 but in practise it doesn't make a difference 23:25:57 I can say that from my own experience 23:26:12 Of course it takes CPU time, it just takes much less CPU time than just about everything else. 23:26:49 elliott_, might be measurable for a really fast SSD though 23:27:02 SSDs are limited by things other than SSDs 23:27:10 i.e. SATA 23:27:25 elliott_, that is 6 GB/s isn't it? 23:27:29 or GBit? 23:27:33 I forgot 23:27:36 It's more about latency I think 23:27:52 But I do know that apparently plugging SSD chips directly into the CPU speeds things up a lot :P 23:27:59 heh 23:29:20 elliott_, anyway, latency won't be an issue if you want to read a huge file or write a huge file in a linear way. That situation would happen on suspend and resume for example 23:29:43 Sure it matters, unless the kernel just sends off the entire file and waits 23:29:52 I suspect it's done at the sector level or whatever 23:29:55 nautilus is using 20% CPU right. 23:30:17 40%, but I've got two cores so it counts to 200% 23:30:24 elliott_, I thought ATA commands existed to write more than one sector at a time 23:30:33 but maybe I'm confusing it with SAS or some such 23:30:43 Vorpal: Probably still limited, surely 23:30:54 elliott_, anyway the SSD has a queue too. Native Command Queue 23:31:10 elliott_, so you can send off 31 requests in one go 23:31:26 thirty one is less than like thousands 23:31:36 elliott_, hm 23:39:29 ais523: wow, pastebin.ca exists 23:39:37 it seems to lack formatting, though 23:39:52 elliott_: pastebin.ca (specifically pastebin, not the other services) came back up a while ago 23:40:12 then it went down again, no? 23:40:27 I don't know, I wasn't looking 23:41:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:41:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:56:13 * elliott_ tries to optimise shiro 23:56:30 hey copumpkin, why would a record with an existential be slower than a typeclass 23:56:42 obviously you are the expert 23:58:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).