< 1314576102 666895 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1314576252 844148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1314576418 855980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to replace the front-end of GHC so that I can add stuff < 1314576438 895366 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1314576489 758530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok < 1314576545 301447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I download only the front-end codes? < 1314576702 97839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't, just download all of GHC and ignore the rest < 1314576716 901240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/ghc/dist/7.2.1/ghc-7.2.1-src.tar.bz2 < 1314576995 351368 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell me which directories from the tape archive I need, though? < 1314577019 447881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're all mixed together in the source directories; you may find the developer wiki helpful < 1314577043 951129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki < 1314577046 233586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the ghc-api documentation? < 1314577056 668520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can't do what he wants < 1314577102 925439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well isn't the rest a wrapper around the ghc-api, more or less? (note: no actual clue inside) < 1314577175 214946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know what that means < 1314577256 567800 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314577292 210624 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do get only the front-end files, will it still compile if I already have Haskell Platform? < 1314577326 427085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it make it use the GHC API for everything else? < 1314577334 548804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot get only the front-end files. < 1314577337 80753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is distributed in whole form. < 1314577339 336205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not a large tarball. < 1314577381 73567 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did download it already but can I extract only some of the files from the tape archive? < 1314577460 95612 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just do a git checkout from the darcs server? < 1314577469 297000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: that is, umm, not helpful? < 1314577495 432543 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be intended as i was trying to help zzo not you < 1314577504 382413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: that is not helpful for him either? < 1314577548 802446 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you asking because you don't know < 1314577581 883103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: no, I'm trying to give you a chance to defend yourself as being mistaken rather than trolling < 1314577836 706380 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if i don't take that chance < 1314577843 855103 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i roll? < 1314577854 998674 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, what are my modifiers? < 1314577861 947148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you just get banned again < 1314577866 66537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least kicked < 1314577869 637296 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 > 1314577870 10872 NAMES :#esoteric < 1314577873 366961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 KICK #esoteric cheater :trolling < 1314577875 392903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 > 1314577875 417072 NAMES :#esoteric < 1314577879 110743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1314577880 631920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have ops here? < 1314577890 343169 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1314577901 19183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you wouldn't believe me if I said no after that, would you? < 1314577918 133220 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, abusing op privileges after falsely assuming i'm trolling < 1314577920 470519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd probably check to see if you removed them afterwards < 1314577922 154058 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cute < 1314577928 919477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: backchat to an op after they kick you after you just got unbanned < 1314577931 792421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart things to do: the novel < 1314577938 637967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I doubt the other ops will overrule me on that one, although of course they can if they want to < 1314577952 836510 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have ops here?!? < 1314577953 169462 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i was trying to help zzo38 < 1314577956 661856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think git checkout would help; I am asking which files correspond to the front-end, as well as some other questions such as whether it can access the GHC API to do the stuff after the front-end, whether it can use the different version, etc < 1314577958 110976 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have stealth ops < 1314577958 903839 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1314577966 229311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not taking a chance to prove you aren't trolling, after being given one and making it clear you're suspected as a troll, is tantamount to admitting to trolling < 1314577969 955111 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see he just gave a serious answer < 1314577971 636461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: *MWAHAHAHA* < 1314577971 886409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I understand you try to help, is OK, but you perhaps have misunderstand my question < 1314578000 311281 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, i did not understand why you only wanted to get a part of the tar file. < 1314578014 925468 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it easier to get the whole thing and then copy files out as needed. < 1314578029 12431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I have downloaded the entire file. I can tell 7-Zip to extract only the files I needed. However, I do not know which files I need to extract. < 1314578070 717639 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you started conversation with me by using an derisive tone and then made a statement which i could only take as humor, because i'd have never thought you would be taking yourself seriously at that point. < 1314578089 467329 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wrong! < 1314578098 918602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314578101 318968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: the whole context was relatively clear < 1314578103 849377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1314578116 499633 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, are you perhaps looking for the place where teh ghci ui is defined? < 1314578127 320244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: or do you just not read context at all, like Vorpal? < 1314578177 89822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what cheater is actually trying to achieve
< 1314578179 794980 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the context of your communication to me as i saw it was you picking on me, if you thought htere was a different context then you have failed to communicate it, or have chosen not to, in order to confuse me and then have an excuse for abusing op powers < 1314578194 361745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: the context was that zzo38 /already had the files/, as you could tell from his comments < 1314578197 577278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am looking for the front-end of GHC, that is, the lexer, parser, renamer, and typechecker. Perhaps I can just try to do it with haskell-src-exts whatever I try to do and see if it helps; although it means I cannot access it with TH if I do that < 1314578212 800724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has it come up that you can't actually make a git checkout from a darcs repository yet < 1314578222 584019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suggesting that he gets them again, using git, from a darcs server, is a little silly even if the darcs server provides a git mirror < 1314578233 337648 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i thought maybe he's low on disk space or something like that and that's why he doesn't want to unpack the whole file < 1314578241 688484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it did, but that's not necessarily wrong in case there's multiple VCSes on the server < 1314578245 581080 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the darcs server is a git server. < 1314578259 127694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: well, that /is/ wrong, because git history takes up quite a bit of disk space compared to a tarball < 1314578287 501908 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i guess that's right < 1314578310 935651 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesn't justify you picking on me < 1314578335 993321 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, let me see if i can find that in my checkout < 1314578340 693388 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i could tell you the file names < 1314578431 286706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I will just try to do it by modifying haskell-src-exts at first, and then if that doesn't work, modify GHC. But then, should I install "hint" package, so that I can make a interpreter, and be able to add interpreted codes. But is there a way to use that to add stuff for accessing by Template Haskell? Possibly I need to add my own kind of "reify" commands < 1314578483 603220 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the directory compiler/parser in my checkout < 1314578507 342847 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compiler/typecheck < 1314578541 171465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a separate one for the renamer, or is the renamer and typechecker together? < 1314578556 549592 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Have you ever made changes to GHC? < 1314578606 426258 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there is also compiler/rename < 1314578616 453846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1314578634 897959 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the lexer is part of the parser: < 1314578635 744728 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :./compiler/parser/LexCore.hs < 1314578635 912138 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :./compiler/parser/Lexer.x < 1314578641 36233 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i have < 1314578643 928021 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ghci < 1314578646 53142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1314578657 71029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you may find #ghc helpful, it contains a lot of people familiar with the ghc source < 1314578663 532840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What things to GHCi, specifically? < 1314578779 353288 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have modified some commands < 1314578802 827373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones, and in what ways? And which version of GHCi? < 1314578869 42881 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 but that part was the same in 6 i think < 1314578888 70540 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just testing how and what i can modify the commands really < 1314578894 550864 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing worth of sharing < 1314578901 854041 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1314578913 192260 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in the < 1314579606 311625 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cabal install user or global by default? Should I install user or global? < 1314579632 414612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Unix, user; on Windows, it doesn't matter < 1314579640 789952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a multi-user Windows setup, which is very rare < 1314579643 66407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just stick with the default < 1314579649 736043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think depends on your settings at install? < 1314579780 182503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do actually have two accounts so that I can do adminstrative functions with one account (usually using "runas") and everything else using another account. < 1314579804 727569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably want a user install, then < 1314579814 580597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the default < 1314579815 564031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, most people don't do Windows accounts correctly; but do you seriously believe that /zzo38/ wouldn't do Windows accounts correctly? < 1314579820 441767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do them correctly too) < 1314579825 718841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when on Windows) < 1314579840 189709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think he likes DOS, and doesn't like the computer to try and stop him doing things, even if they're dangerous < 1314579850 728993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I find it perfectly plausible that zzo38 would want to use only an administrator account < 1314579889 519296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is not to stop me but to stop other software from doing things that I do not run under the administrator account. < 1314579917 913091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1314580043 537290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to tell cabal to access multiple servers? Is it possible to give the servers prefixes for package names in case some of them might have packages that have the same name but are different packages? < 1314580375 679136 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people told me that shell scripts set to suid in Linux doesn't switch. I think it should do it anyways. I did read somewhere that you can make a symlink named -i to trick it, but can you fix it by changing the shebang like to say #!/bin/bash -- < 1314580423 791856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways it should be whoever decides to make it suid whose fault it is if they do it wrong, rather than the kernel. UNIX should not stop you from doing stupid things because then you cannot do smart things either. < 1314580482 156483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem is not with a symlink called -i, but if you make a symlink to the shellscript itself, then load the shellscript, then after the shebang is read and while sh is loading, change the symlink to point to a different shellscript < 1314580507 98559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing the person who writes the script can do about that, except to name something in the shebang line that checks to see if the file it's operating on is actually suid with the right user < 1314580571 854043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could probably be corrected, by making the kernel seize the file if you run any suid program in that way; for consistency it can do that for all programs rather than only shell scripts. < 1314580602 376174 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would violate a principal part of the Unix model < 1314580814 645330 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way could be to make it if you run a symlink of a suid shell script it will call the program with the name of the actual file instead. Or make it so that symlinks don't run suid unless it is owned by the same user. But either way it seem it is the fault of whoever made it suid < 1314580925 308711 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :suid is irredeemably broken anyway < 1314580934 115504 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or make it so that symlinks don't run suid unless it is owned by the same user." I'm parsing that in two ways. One makes suid useless, the other seems risky, in that not all shellscripts owned by the suid-setting user should be suid-able < 1314581035 840151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You are probably correct. Is the other one any better? < 1314581069 3443 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally don't see any problems with sending the real file, but I'm not a UNIX geek < 1314581077 248312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there is actually a fix that some UNIXes use; upon encountering a suid shell script, they open the shell script, then pass the open file descriptor to the interpreter < 1314581084 510534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing the symlink won't change what the file descriptor points to < 1314581102 199880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux doesn't do it, though, for some reason < 1314581119 526110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what in particular do you dislike about it, and would recommend as an alternative? < 1314581131 889787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did kmc follow zzo back here? :P < 1314581179 337397 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a confused deputy problem waiting to happen < 1314581182 20119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those people who believes that UNIX is really far from perfect, but that you really need to know what you're doing to come up with anything better < 1314581197 144356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: aren't all methods of escalating permissions? or are some worse than others? < 1314581212 740882 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are just too many ways the person running a binary can screw with that binary's execution < 1314581224 699577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more a rebuttal of the entire unix security model < 1314581232 6776 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux et al try to patch this up with blacklisting < 1314581237 964651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is certainly valid, but you can't really fix that within the contexts of unix < 1314581241 479556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: pretty much all of them don't work on scripts that are either suid or have called setuid < 1314581244 102174 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't ptrace setuid binary due to special rule. can't set this or that environment variable by special rule. etc. < 1314581256 987663 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, because there are special blacklist rules, and sometimes they forget one < 1314581258 255367 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1314581264 767011 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree this can't really be fixed without changing unix drastically < 1314581267 725152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even look at all the procfiles of a process that's your own child that dropped permissions, if you've also dropped permissions < 1314581268 316277 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like including real capabilities < 1314581279 391936 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are still better alternatives < 1314581283 835521 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that work in the confines of existing unix < 1314581289 164660 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than capabilities? < 1314581289 331775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix should just be @ instead, and then have never existed, and then @ should have existed in its place. < 1314581291 955626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux does have real capabilities, but I don't see how they avoid the problem < 1314581295 677765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my controversial Unix security opinion < 1314581297 329416 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is curious
< 1314581299 310609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're rather coarse-grained, though < 1314581300 734878 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has real capabilities? < 1314581302 349870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Linux does not have object-capability < 1314581307 620964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has POSIX-capability, which are something else entirely < 1314581308 864666 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should just fix suid so that it prevents the user running it from doing various things. The suid process could then add the permission that allows the actual user that run the program to send signals, if they want to. < 1314581310 53437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, just subset-of-root-capability < 1314581314 296203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has POSIX-capability, which are something else entirely < 1314581321 686110 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX capabilities are barely better than root / not-root < 1314581323 262051 :azaq23!~derivecto@pD9E34761.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1314581328 751245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real capabilities" refers to the object-capability model whenever I've seen it :P < 1314581337 995951 :azaq23!~derivecto@pD9E34761.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Changing host < 1314581338 67829 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314581344 222662 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's better than capabilities? < 1314581350 467101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, object-capabilities are /still/ subject to the confused deputy problem < 1314581354 43731 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not claim anything was better than object capabilities < 1314581366 286595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, even more so than suid, because the person is still running an executable and able to mess with it < 1314581369 90062 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, of course. in security one must talk about less-susceptible vs more-susceptible, not in absolutes < 1314581375 777471 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Client Quit < 1314581383 788386 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314581386 127817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with suid, you can say "that's suid" versus "that's not suid" and use it as a basis for blacklisting < 1314581391 991182 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i propose to replace each setuid binary with a persistent daemon that serves requests over a UNIX socket < 1314581400 330762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elevation permission can be done using suid; in addition, reduce permission to that of other users while the program is still running could be done with other function calls (if the calling program is root), and then everything else to change permission of processes can be done with ptrace. < 1314581407 518402 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a much narrower interface to the less-privileged user < 1314581422 37110 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people know how to write secure network daemons, more than they know how to write secure setuid binaries < 1314581430 479558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems potentially vulnerable to DOS issues that setuid binaries aren't vulnerable to < 1314581436 571651 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1314581446 910993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do bizarre things on sockets too, like using them to send SIGPIPE signals < 1314581509 258165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the argument's a resource-limit one; if a daemon is doing work on your behalf, how do you make it count against your own resource limits rather than the daemon's? < 1314581533 76588 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting question < 1314581566 962442 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one patch KDE2 under FreeBSD? < 1314581584 261705 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could argue that setuid binaries shouldn't be doing nontrivial work anyway < 1314581592 668435 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if that really holds < 1314581610 263176 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway replacing privilege escalation flaws with denial of service flaws is frequently a good tradeoff < 1314581640 493481 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way similar things are done in stuff like xen? < 1314581683 689134 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does division by zero do in a language without runtime errors? < 1314581694 809605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: the most sensible answer to that question I know of was one about KDE3 being out < 1314581704 510279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you could use KDE4 as a substitute nowadays < 1314581736 920581 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example which looks much like object capabilities: instead of your HTTP server running as root just so it can get port 80, it talks to a daemon whose sole purpose is to open privileged ports on behalf of other processes < 1314581738 387434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for those here who don't know of the phrase, it's a meme in certain countries (I forget which) where people ask that question at politicians and other celebrities in apparently serious interviews) < 1314581743 254403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and send them back through a UNIX socket) < 1314581752 693800 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Wikipedia says Russian < 1314581753 203480 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_does_one_patch_KDE2_under_FreeBSD%3F < 1314581786 488298 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, hmm < 1314581790 286307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Russian-speaking countries in general, it seems < 1314581821 602203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: and how does the daemon know who can open the port? and what the HTTP server will do with it? < 1314581841 111880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with object capabilities, you attach a "port 80" capability to the file containing the executable for the HTTP server < 1314581847 347805 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1314581849 333692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a daemon, there's no obvious way to do that < 1314581856 781650 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only one sort of object-capability system < 1314581862 702976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not only HTTP. It also includes a very large number of other protocols. Maybe even Message Send Protocol; although I forget what its port number is. < 1314581868 976468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's one way in which it works < 1314581874 660307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the case where the daemon also happens to be the filesystem < 1314581876 683174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't see an obvious way for daemon-capability to duplicate that < 1314581878 15957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, you pass the listen-on-port-80 capability to it at runtime < 1314581885 907098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, init passes it, or whatever? < 1314581893 602200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever starts the httpd passes it < 1314581912 744904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and needs it to be able to start the httpd < 1314581932 870123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they want to start it on another port, which would presumably be acceptable < 1314581933 205506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would that whoever happen to have a port-80 capability? I can understand why init would have it < 1314581946 518667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say I'm a network admin who wants to restart Apache or whatever < 1314581950 299328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do I get a port-80 capability from? < 1314581990 591592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably you have near-omnipotence, considering that in unix you'd have access to sudo < 1314581999 26558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1314582011 944094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you'd actually only need a suid HTTP server to manage that < 1314582012 91770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just get one from the network driver < 1314582028 422057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sudo can be set up to only allow people to run particular executables, which is much the same thing < 1314582101 105744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : did kmc follow zzo back here? :P <-- poor HackEgo is going to be overworked < 1314582115 518642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, Firefox version numbers make discussions of website problems really hard to follow < 1314582117 34193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way is monadic capability system. You have a Haskell program with a monadic type for operating system, and it exposes all of its constructors representing the basic operations (derived ones are just combiniations of the basic ones), when one program calls another in I/O mode it will intercept everything and there is no limit to the number of times it can be done < 1314582131 683466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get "this doesn't work in Firefox 6" "well it works in Firefox 8" and no longer have an idea of who to follow < 1314582139 672585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or which one's remotely recent < 1314582145 425573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL is winning, though, it's on version 29 < 1314582155 24213 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what a HackEgo is < 1314582164 546441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo :( < 1314582167 636325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some projects like Java have discarded the major version number < 1314582168 586980 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ sh: -c: line 0: `echo :(' < 1314582169 911036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ':(' < 1314582171 885310 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:( < 1314582175 985835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL effectively merged the minor and patchlevel, and discarded the major < 1314582209 191419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard all version numbers, just fork the project and move every developer over before each new release < 1314582253 951617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One part of the system is written in assembly language and manages the lowest level operating system operations, as well as all serialization and saving state to disk and restoring everything properly, and so on. < 1314582258 107571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha < 1314582265 707297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I couldn't use a -2 version number component for betas < 1314582280 7611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I've recently caught myself wanting to do in non-INTERCAL-related projects; it really does make a lot of sense) < 1314582282 382771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use more boring names for betas to discourage regular users from trying them < 1314582295 300184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigma-Zyzyzyzyzzz INTERCAL becomes Corporate Language Implementation Framework 9 < 1314582302 403273 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how well these ideas work; I have never tried it and am not even quite sure how) < 1314582302 654159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally want to encourage people to use betas in the case of INTERCAL < 1314582302 726123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :becomes ALL INTERCAL ALL THE TIME!! < 1314582326 546847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, name each fork after a particularly nice line of INTERCAL < 1314582332 278461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the case of betas, a half-broken one < 1314582332 958889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do'nt think it /has/ any "regular users" < 1314582339 948642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1314582354 51818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please use negative version numbers if it helps in making the version numbers. < 1314582403 438969 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my version numbers to be arbitrary unicode < 1314582424 935591 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Including control characters or not? < 1314582428 742424 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1314582448 122651 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, better - it's a link to a program that calculates the version number when ran < 1314582462 51198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :classical chinese numerals < 1314582469 827425 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, better - it's a quine. < 1314582500 815847 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every version number is a quine in echo < 1314582520 887518 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every version number is an entire copy of Goedel Escher Bach < 1314582549 36399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use the Major.Minor.Revision system except that if the minor increases beyond 9 then it is the next major instead, and if the revision increases beyond 9 then it is the next minor instead. < 1314582619 955821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which allows you to write it as a decimal number such as 100 for version 1.0 < 1314582786 469130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((version 1.0)!(^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582786 540859 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((version 1.0)!(^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582837 244500 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :version 1.0 < wat < 1314582855 436659 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((um what is this part)!(^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582855 787557 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((um what is this part)!(^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582857 552998 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1314582873 593762 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo < 1314582878 265269 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo test < 1314582879 277049 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1314582883 187530 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((um what is this part)!(!echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582883 700057 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo ^ul ((um what is this part)!(!echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582884 384841 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​^ul ((um what is this part)!(!echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314582910 16705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how many printings does it have? you might run out of numbers after a while < 1314582924 907425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: ( ... )! is a comment in Underload < 1314582934 18439 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1314582940 444751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot sends a zero-width character if the output starts with any punctuation mark < 1314582960 972030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it should probably just send NOTICE for replies < 1314582968 757378 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "test" < 1314582969 405003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1314583025 606759 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314583027 48420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how impossible is it to implement eval in Haskell? < 1314583027 348458 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1314583033 473629 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1314583037 446286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it's doable at all, just to annoy purists < 1314583040 471615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not impossible at all < 1314583043 182927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hint < 1314583048 768118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it's been done? < 1314583055 17034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you think lambdabot works? < 1314583062 978943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint is great because it actually reifies the value < 1314583069 820041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was invoking an interpreter < 1314583073 296726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like EgoBot runs interpreters < 1314583079 911448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, it just happens to use the GHC API to do it :P < 1314583081 75502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the eval would be unconnected with the original program < 1314583087 526199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well it doesn't inherit your scope < 1314583093 60621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you pass things in explicitly < 1314583105 120489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt you could pass an IORef or anything < 1314583116 978343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it provides an eval that results in a bona-fide actual value, so it's good enough :) < 1314583127 99377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could ofc have it produce a State monadic value and run that < 1314583146 647760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"monadic value" = "monad action"? or "thing you apply a monad action to"? < 1314583153 221702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad action, yes < 1314583171 361276 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does EgoBot do? < 1314583192 28276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1314583192 623487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs programs in a variety of languages, mostly esolangs < 1314583192 694867 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1314583195 835631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1314583196 440243 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1314583197 876010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1314583198 549069 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1314583203 815355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1314583204 491440 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc yodawg < 1314583207 560714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things < 1314583219 840633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's HackEgo's sibling < 1314583224 679675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_attack (>)*8(>[-])*21 < 1314583232 142264 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_attack: 17.1 < 1314583252 783425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, it came last < 1314583255 157632 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't really use it to modify host functions, can you? < 1314583256 488894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have been a little worried otherwise < 1314583278 535239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: define modify, mutate? you can't mutate values in Haskell < 1314583286 135484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether through an eval mechanism or not < 1314583292 223523 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1314583320 178704 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters about inconveniently-se MIME types
< 1314583322 229840 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/hint/devel/examples/ < 1314583332 338904 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inconveniently-set < 1314583389 170884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: text/x-haskell < 1314583390 881470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks correct to me < 1314583407 202629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inconvenient because the browser won't open it inline? < 1314583421 617567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should really be some content-type modifier that says "if you don't understand this, it's just fine for you to treat it as a text file" < 1314583428 311473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but not try to execute it even if you're Internet Explorer" < 1314583443 224266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: content-disposition: inline < 1314583450 873805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, great, it does exist < 1314583462 22145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit vague though < 1314583471 483017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wikipedia will not serve pages raw as text/plain, but will as text/css; text/plain triggers an old-IE bug where it'll interpret it as HTML sometimes) < 1314583494 824865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1314583506 805575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1314583512 668189 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evaluates an expression, given a witness for its monomorphic type." < 1314583526 710585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works with polymorphic types, at least it did when i tried :p < 1314583526 922121 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a :: String or whatever? < 1314583528 935942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but avoiding a really exploitable XSS bug in old-IE is necessary, I think < 1314583538 700408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a witness is just (undefined :: T) or whatever < 1314583549 293379 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok, that's what I thought < 1314583609 845854 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why is the as needed? < 1314583622 57042 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpret "head [True,False]" (as :: Bool) < 1314583625 707140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just sugar < 1314583635 593477 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would that look like without the as function? Ugly? < 1314583654 373548 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, type signature of interpret would be different < 1314583698 763829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314583703 340094 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :String -> a? < 1314583705 368657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would explicitly involve an "undefined" < 1314583706 632108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ugly < 1314583743 53437 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I think it'd be either String -> a or String -> IO a < 1314583764 727063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eval e where eval :: String -> e ??? < 1314583780 780013 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/hint/0.3.3.2/doc/html/Language-Haskell-Interpreter.html < 1314583781 113265 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which would make more sense anyways) < 1314583794 921146 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant something more like < 1314583812 486205 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, ah. < 1314583820 199282 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: a = IO b for when you need IO < 1314583824 666027 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so String -> a < 1314583829 870655 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpret "head [True,False]" :: InterpreterT Id Bool < 1314583841 769329 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, makes sense. < 1314583919 89322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah you basically want Read except now every instance interprets Haskell to some kind of intermediate value and then makes sure it's the correct type < 1314583921 886578 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1314584001 877622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you probably want to name your typeclass IsString < 1314584017 6904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turn on overloadedstrings < 1314584019 122286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally a good idea. < 1314584053 119527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rips CakeProphet's soul.
< 1314584065 414618 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/hint/0.3.3.2/doc/html/Language-Haskell-Interpreter.html#g:10 the parens note here fails to show that that should be =\n and not =n < 1314584150 646324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes < 1314584155 712429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :send a patch < 1314584159 991137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a missing \ in the haddock < 1314584212 591769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/kQ53Wdyy < 1314584214 760783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what is wrong < 1314584228 7094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyparsing.ParseException: Expected end of text (at char 0), (line:1, col:1) < 1314584324 58017 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not at all set up to send patches < 1314584448 363906 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: alternatively instead of providing an isstring instance make a quasiquoter and use dataToExpQ or whatever it is < 1314584456 454631 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: to make the quasiquoter < 1314584477 508119 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dataToExpQ/dataToPatQ/dataToQa is very convenient for making quasiquoters) < 1314584508 879279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help python < 1314584581 4462 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1314584595 861290 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably awful at python by now < 1314584623 162416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: a hunch, are you successfully skipping whitespace where needed? < 1314584649 522381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pyparsing skips all whitespace (including newlines) by default < 1314584653 295318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1314584654 94858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I am led to beieve. < 1314584686 94831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt your grammar is non-ambiguous with no newlines involved at all < 1314584726 951160 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still did not work with newlines included. < 1314584741 656250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't what i meant < 1314584743 870127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but w/e :P < 1314584799 891186 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I mean I used newlines to define the grammar and told the parser to not skip newlines and it still did not work. < 1314584826 715310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: perhaps try smaller test cases, such as just statement on the first line, and so on down until it succeeds? < 1314584973 59649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic bug case minimization < 1314585010 65434 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1314585074 604886 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intended to say something stupid in here, not in #haskell < 1314585086 56991 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sometimes open any text file inline in Mozilla browsers by prepending view-source: to the URL. < 1314585086 509035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you say something stupid in #haskell < 1314585155 102405 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think I can express what makes me uncomfortable about duck-typing lately in terms of the microwave metapho." < 1314585174 451685 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1314585185 245941 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-176-100.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314585185 317840 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-176-100.dsl.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1314585185 317903 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1314585282 757210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's giving an error on the first line now, expecting a ( < 1314585293 451654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with expr << stringLiteral | ... < 1314585301 218876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should see the " and parse as a string < 1314585302 801564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CONFUSED < 1314585332 715740 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The browser I use also allows you to show anything internally when the download prompt is displayed. Push i to show as a specified MIME-type, or t to show as text/plain. That only works for HTTP (and HTTPS), though. For gopher, you push M-0 to view as text. < 1314585337 160848 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the library is bad...,maybe the python is bad... < 1314585376 593532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: maybe it just gives bad error messages? < 1314585379 731831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm bad < 1314585420 875566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know that Parsec (with Haskell) displays proper error messages, even though I have not programmed any in. < 1314585464 294906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try to feed an invalid program to my Constantinople compiler and it will display an error message telling you exactly what is expected. < 1314585465 205875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw how do backslashes work inside """ strings anyway < 1314585490 733461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they actually need doubling or not < 1314585520 366296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1314585542 901443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run python -c 'print """te\\st"""' < 1314585549 953184 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :te\st < 1314585557 943233 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314585566 188650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo python -c 'print """te\\st"""' < 1314585572 179703 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -c print """te\\st""" < 1314585607 794162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo python -c "print '''te\\st'''" < 1314585609 150195 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -c print '''te\st''' < 1314585627 1206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait < 1314585645 350464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo python -c "print '''te"'\\'"st'''" < 1314585647 327832 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -c print '''te\\st''' < 1314585653 558958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run python -c "print '''te"'\\'"st'''" < 1314585655 462844 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :te\st < 1314585662 687996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1314585690 265578 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It displays the following message, which I did not even program in: (line 1, column 1): unexpected '@' expecting white space, "replace", "repeat", "in", "out", "end" or end of input In the expression: $parseConstantinople In the expression: $parseConstantinople initialMem In an equation for `main': main = $parseConstantinople initialMem < 1314585703 220285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: anyway, continue making the error case smaller < 1314585714 89493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on just that. < 1314585758 386816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : " I think I can express what makes me uncomfortable about duck-typing lately in terms of the microwave metapho." <-- that just means you fit in, and are soon ready to make a monad tutorial < 1314585782 858210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually according to the specification for Constantinople, "end" shouldn't go there, but my program treats "end" the same as end of input; i.e. it ends a block of code.) < 1314585783 774207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, well probably would help if I gave the parse function the correct arguments. < 1314585797 326119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was still using the same arguments from my own hand-written parser, where the first argument was the filename. < 1314585800 326846 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, more to do with OO and duck-typing than anything to do with monads < 1314585861 803462 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of programming. < 1314585874 123972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Parsec tries to make good error messages but you can often improve them with the operator < 1314585928 76937 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. Well, in this case the error message seem OK to me. But thank you for telling me in case of future program I write and want to adjust the error message. < 1314585963 587115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: WHOOSH (or just be glad you haven't seen that kind of monad tutorials) < 1314585985 559426 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I've heard of the monad tutorial issue < 1314585988 498992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer if it used the serial comma but that doesn't matter much and I don't plan to affect that, it is still OK how it is. < 1314586323 387239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that it says expecting white space even though the white space check already succeeded (something like (spaces >> (...))) which is still a useful error message, however. < 1314586347 542501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm right if you wanted that you'd probably write your own version of showErrorMessages < 1314586397 807224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that commasOr local function in http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.0.0/doc/html/src/Text-Parsec-Error.html#showErrorMessages looks like the culprit < 1314586437 71212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never even used showErrorMessages. The output of the parser is just sent to a function of this: either (fail . show) return < 1314586457 950704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's used in the Show instance < 1314586527 555264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not really care much about that though. < 1314586894 520463 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a TH program to compile regular expressions into Parsec? < 1314586946 576697 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using emacs so long now that M-x h M-w is starting to feel naturally < 1314586958 271235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ly < 1314587009 327494 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyways thanks for the help. Here's the current program if you're interested. Currently testing cases and it's looking promising: http://pastebin.com/5kK8B35w < 1314587249 348539 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems you could make the regular expression compile, depending on capturing and that stuff, the containing type of the monad would correspond to String or (String,String) or (String,[String],String) etc depending on what it is. I don't really know for sure exactly, though. < 1314587272 725208 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, which of the many file compression formats is the best when speed is paramount (but not to the point that just not compressing at all is better) < 1314587326 329418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, ZIP in extra fast mode. I am not sure. I would like to know the *real* answer to this question, too. < 1314587356 986720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LZO < 1314587359 319598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No contest. < 1314587359 902457 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Deflate and LZMA are both fairly fast. There are highly optimised libraries for both. < 1314587363 394647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1314587364 796225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZO. < 1314587368 404724 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1314587372 227141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZMA is not even in the same universe. < 1314587381 767445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, hmm < 1314587385 658578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Compression speed < 1314587397 241946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I still suspect LZO will be the fastest < 1314587403 882990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its primary goal is lightspeed decompression < 1314587406 745610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say either LZO or gzi < 1314587407 376739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p < 1314587421 467736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZO has the advantage of needing very little RAM to compress :P < 1314587422 649664 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZO, to my knowledge, doesn't have a convenient command-line tool like gzip < 1314587431 602361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does. < 1314587434 459190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install lzop < 1314587434 531755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then write one. < 1314587484 472535 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WP says compression is "comparable in speed to deflate". < 1314587499 210420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought Gregor meant decompression < 1314587500 177628 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that decompression is the "very fast" bit. < 1314587504 599089 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean both in fact. < 1314587508 307119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless, LZMA is nowhere in the same universe :P < 1314587514 619823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, LZO is almost certainly gonna be your best bet < 1314587523 198842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZO doesn't get massively good compression ratios, does it? < 1314587528 196999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purely there for speed and memory usage? < 1314587538 46966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now with Vorpal context powers < 1314587547 77101 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy CRAP but LZO is fast. < 1314587549 910141 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314587554 976734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did read context < 1314587559 615465 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its compression rate isn't as good as gzip, no, but wow. < 1314587565 320418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it talked about the decompression speed, but not about ratio at all < 1314587567 127824 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking 14sec vs 0.6sec. < 1314587580 209845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, a null compressor would be fastest < 1314587586 495164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmmm, which of the many file compression formats is the best when speed is paramount (but not to the point that just not compressing at all is better) < 1314587588 613176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did not read context :P < 1314587593 9863 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314587607 408380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it should be relatively competitive with gzip at the highest level < 1314587611 763771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, of course, not as fast < 1314587613 446085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1314587616 912488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, of course, not as fast as it is on lower levels < 1314587667 430676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: null compressor fulfils the letter of your request < 1314587672 742020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because not compressing at all is /not/ better than it < 1314587681 297085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 sure is helpful < 1314587688 397394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm tired and being a little silly < 1314587689 152227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :program.ignore(cppStyleComment) < 1314587692 232837 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, so helpful :P < 1314587692 500496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is almost too easy now... < 1314587706 817095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :azip is rather too slow to compress, unfortunately, but decompresses in O(original file) < 1314587712 97819 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lzop -9 is crazy-slow X-D < 1314587741 121876 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, lzop default is ridiculously fast and gets 52% compression ratio on this test file, which is good enough for me. < 1314587755 934290 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Screw you and your easy parser combinators. I did mine the hard way. < 1314587764 118859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: use the GPL version 3 as a test file, it's what I used for azip < 1314587766 496202 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliberately, though. :P < 1314587776 377256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, is now going to be the only acceptable test benchmark for compressors ever, apart from Lenna < 1314587785 18771 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, my file is big enough to be borderline-meaningful :P < 1314587788 599865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used the C-INTERCAL tarball as a larger test) < 1314587799 523520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the GPL-3 is big enough to be borderline-meaningful too < 1314587802 775218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: my parser WORKED... until I realized my language needed infix operators. < 1314587814 385587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does a language "need" infix operators? < 1314587829 967838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*my implementation of an existing language < 1314587880 223570 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Add macros. Implement infix operators as macros. Language no longer needs them. < 1314587897 647745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you'd have to implement infix macros, though < 1314587903 451069 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you need to add macros that are good enough to be able to implement infix operators. < 1314587905 362044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: the GPL-3 is big enough to be borderline-meaningful too <-- now _there's_ a statement that needs context. < 1314587906 6598 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My file is 86MB and only took lzop -3 0.6sec to compress :P < 1314587907 674328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which still, for decent macros, requires being able to parse infix < 1314587920 173036 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not at all. You would just need to wrap them. < 1314587935 118743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just compress it 1000 times, and dodge cache effects as a bonus < 1314587948 814479 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a Pratt parser done as a Lisp macro so you could write (expr '(2 + 3 * 5)) or whatever. < 1314587977 788962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if it's a macro you wouldn't use ' would you < 1314587984 403570 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, .sf.lzo: Clearly the best lossless audio compression format. < 1314587987 203940 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is essentially how Tcl does it, if I recall. < 1314587996 731222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sf.lzo, the hip new domain name for sourceforge < 1314588000 105965 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't recall. I think that article did, but you wouldn't necessarily have to... < 1314588020 335457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do Lisp macros work? < 1314588041 845807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't answer, because whatever I say I'll be wrong < 1314588041 928408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1314588044 802520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1314588045 53251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouted at as a result < 1314588048 609169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try "badly" < 1314588051 349798 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like fuckin' MAGNETS < 1314588065 656957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I personally dislike them, but am willing to accept that that isn't a majority opinion < 1314588071 100470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dislike them for reasons unrelated to how well they work < 1314588090 246471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly-done fexprs are nicer, but macros are a lot easier < 1314588093 803294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement well and efficiently < 1314588098 319773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by far < 1314588126 338805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fexpr? < 1314588135 483837 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unevaluated expression, essentially. < 1314588141 138305 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't evaluate terms eagerly. < 1314588162 205537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that is indeed very elegant, nice, and effective < 1314588169 108962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like slipping a call-by-name function into a call-by-value language < 1314588188 258591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1314588205 475682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people really need to stop answering questions addressed at me incorrectly :P < 1314588223 983871 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not exactly how it works. < 1314588234 609611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an fexpr is just a function that doesn't have its arguments evaluated; it's really easy to mess this up, though (see http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Special-Forms.html, a paper dedicated to advocating monads over fexprs from 1980) < 1314588239 676406 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My explanation wasn't wrong. < 1314588240 923712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible to make them work well with lexical scoping < 1314588244 408589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the Kernel language < 1314588246 946212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: yes, it was < 1314588250 862874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fexprs are not unevaluated expressions < 1314588265 247251 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, they are functions taking unevaluated expressions. < 1314588276 62723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: which is what a call-by-name function effectively is < 1314588286 577336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if elliott tells me they're different, then one of us is wrong < 1314588305 337126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not quite the same < 1314588311 144913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: call by name functions can't expect their argument's ast, traditionally < 1314588331 145880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the difference is that they can do things with their arguments other than evaluate them (possibly repeatedly)? < 1314588332 790279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo (f 9 0)) can't evaluate the same as (f 9 'avocado 0) (generically etc.) < 1314588336 317869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1314588342 58028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to work out the difference between that and macros < 1314588345 509658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, all their arguments are automatically quoted < 1314588349 67433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're run at runtime < 1314588352 547405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the trick is, you don't need functions like this < 1314588356 255458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement them in terms of fexprs < 1314588366 259569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you can implement lambda in terms of vau < 1314588372 101096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kernel's name for the fexpr-defining primitive) < 1314588375 902836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/defining/creating/ < 1314588381 588701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/primitive/syntax/ I suppose < 1314588385 822464 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right, and compilation of fexprs is...problematic. < 1314588389 876087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vau is itself an fexpr ofc) < 1314588397 691965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no it isn't, it's just constant-folding < 1314588421 394140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because fexprs are a generalisation of call-by-name, and you can implement call-by-value in call-by-name < 1314588442 764687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does Underload have fexprs? < 1314588465 451415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was it again who was responsible for the Vector skin change? Perhaps somebody could recommend a Design your own wikipedia skin option as most of the options suck. There ought to be a graphic option to design your own wikipedia design and main page. I am aware you can change the main page design in monobook but I want the option to make the frame much darker and make the articles stand out more. There is only so much you can do with changing y < 1314588465 699350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our Internet options colors and fonts. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC) < 1314588466 281324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to meet every part of the definition so far, except that it can't do anything with the AST but print it < 1314588470 952012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Talk:Main Page]] is really weird < 1314588477 624702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it can; it can compose it with things < 1314588486 513905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly, you can rarely pick anything apart unless the format is restricted < 1314588487 593690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, the things it can do are rather "safe" < 1314588499 861838 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought you couldn't safely optimise them, at least. < 1314588506 138838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not certain if that's AST-level composition, except because it's defined ot be < 1314588507 567922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be < 1314588512 490372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: that's true iff you can't optimise function applications < 1314588517 622649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a rather hilarious, albeit bad, opinion < 1314588518 840616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it without knowing the AST at all, by using a lambda, in other languages < 1314588524 307360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1314588526 910774 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it undecidable whether a particular expression is actually evaluated though? < 1314588542 971023 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By static analysis alone. < 1314588543 437696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you don't need to know that to be able to optimise it, though < 1314588569 82353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the cases where it is decidable that it's always, say, evaluated once and has no side effects, you can reorder it; but even if it isn't, inlining + standard optimisations will probably help < 1314588569 524528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar "You mean it isn't possible to optimise any TC language perfectly?" evincar < 1314588570 620772 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to compile it, you still need to have the data available. < 1314588574 197835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is your new name < 1314588587 752568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimisations don't have to work in 100% of cases < 1314588607 296302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is mostly that your AST transformations could change what AST an fexpr gets at runtime < 1314588609 256756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's no problem < 1314588609 340729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one that works in 99% of cases, like recognising if fexprs or call-by-name functions work identically to call-by-value functions, is going to be helpful < 1314588614 369408 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm just not clear how to compile a language with fexprs without just embedding an interpreter. < 1314588618 144876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the AST should be semantically equivalent, if it's being used for evaluation < 1314588631 568439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you have to embed it, but that doesn't mean you have to use it all the time < 1314588636 168868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can statically eliminate all uses of it < 1314588636 240820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Underload's compiled by storing both the source and the meaning of every function together < 1314588641 113196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using the source only when necessary < 1314588651 644291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the meaning the rest of the time < 1314588659 763477 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do what we must I guess. < 1314588667 142086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how did your ul compiler compare to derlo? < 1314588680 517346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember which was faster, and whether it depended on the program < 1314588688 148188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: badly, I think, but then I started writing a much better one recently < 1314588693 873449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that would make sense < 1314588701 474375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then didn't finish it because everyone has hundreds of unfinished projects < 1314588703 322169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (one that optimised numerals) < 1314588711 354631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I had a haskell version < 1314588714 642357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started translating it to C, I forget why < 1314588717 167110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it an interpreter < 1314588718 953582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1314588726 677570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have been trying to write a really good interpreter < 1314588736 789075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I can't remember if derlo optimises numerals < 1314588738 843322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an interp) < 1314588740 687613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1314588745 692167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I read derlo when writing mine) < 1314588761 373092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I have a Perl Overload interp somewhere which optimises numerals and nothing else < 1314588764 767875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unfinished < 1314588769 968104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all overload interps are unfinished < 1314588772 619815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my numeral optimisation was better :) < 1314588777 959488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language itself is too hard to get your head around < 1314588778 126219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan wrote a far-too-general number-detector < 1314588796 165291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed it is, the Perl program just regexes its memory every step looking for numbers < 1314588851 620313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1314588883 301680 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had a thought about fractals. < 1314588910 205307 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were to have a VM that logged every operation it evaluated... < 1314588935 589625 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and decreased a "scale" value whenever it entered a new stack frame and increased it when leaving... < 1314588938 710160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: argh, where is my interp? find it please < 1314588950 552289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you sent me a copy < 1314588953 317787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wonder if I lost it with my Code.tar.gz < 1314588959 238763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares to cry softly
< 1314588965 385968 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then you could make a sort of nonuniform dotplot of the instructions executed, and you'd get a fractal representation of the execution of the program. < 1314588979 122561 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would show iteration at uniform scale and recursion fractionally. < 1314588996 956649 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what purpose it would serve other than to look nice. < 1314589084 949353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like I may have lost it :( < 1314589123 85890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so a huge problem with pyparsing is that the error messages are not good. < 1314589154 477552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how did you lose a tarball of code? < 1314589178 55471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have you taken steps so it doesn't happen again? < 1314589179 163873 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Fork and improve? < 1314589185 314941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by not realising that megaupload would expire it rapidly, and by somehow losing my original download of it < 1314589199 911001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1314589213 767838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (I used it to transfer code from old OS install to new one, with no convenient storage media to hand) < 1314589217 154437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gitorious/patch-tag as backup for some things, but wouldn't expect, say, a pastebin or megaupload to do so < 1314589228 129344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didn't intend it to stay there for longer than a day or so < 1314589236 407124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that the old install is no longer accessible/wiped? < 1314589299 901537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: perhaps I can just find a way to augment errors like Parsec allows < 1314589306 166807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: replaced by the new one :P < 1314589390 400261 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah setFailAction is probably what I want. < 1314589497 673037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll generally keep at least an unpacked tarball and the original tarball for importantish tarballs like that < 1314589501 760134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often a separate copy on a USB stick < 1314589853 234965 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1314590030 440810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo everything works. < 1314590189 993460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1314590701 979266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, TIL that Thomas Edison invented the use of "Hello" to start conversations < 1314590724 273340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suggested it to Alexander Graham Bell as a standard method of answering the telephone < 1314590743 997523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's the one thing edison /did/ invent < 1314590889 952490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1314590906 79189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word was around beforehand, but with a different meaning (it was an expression of surprise) < 1314590927 547052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, this is the sort of thing that's very likely to have unreliable sources behind it, so I'm not sure if it's so likely to be true, even if TIL it < 1314591304 616240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to check out on googling < 1314591359 277424 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1314591418 994535 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1314591672 979467 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I identify much more with Tesla. Edison should've come to his senses sooner. < 1314591721 351251 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it wasn't strictly surprise. It was just a literal "hey there". < 1314591731 453643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBUGGING THIS IS PRETTY FUN < 1314591734 668935 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as "hola". < 1314591908 331691 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide if coming here makes me more or less productive as a programmer... < 1314591925 413306 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you are asking the wrong question. < 1314591938 599649 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the frequency of coming here < 1314591974 138096 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the duration. < 1314591985 880064 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a person is made or broken by their ability to do a day's work < 1314592002 831217 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to do a week's work in a day. < 1314592012 626303 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not to say I'm seven times as productive as anybody. < 1314592023 37061 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather that I slack off for six days a week then make up for it. < 1314592050 704551 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently if you have an employer you have to slack off because an employer will simply expect more and more from you for the same pay < 1314592053 95110 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hear < 1314592063 324562 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are working on your own < 1314592065 790798 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a freelancer seems to be working for me. < 1314592085 405660 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME TOO ESPECIALLY DEBUGGING IT IS GREAT. :D :D :D < 1314592117 557611 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a site for a guy who's going to pay me in Bitcoin... < 1314592131 983208 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because I know him already. < 1314592142 733074 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the dollar is going down the tubes anyway, so might as well diversify. < 1314592216 598597 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when I come here I get inspired to do stupid fun experimental projects. < 1314592216 905099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not actually think the dollar is "going down the tube" < 1314592219 939182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anymore. < 1314592224 148958 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of which have turned into useful things. < 1314592230 864851 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dollar will fail. < 1314592237 30912 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence: every fiat currency ever. < 1314592260 231012 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that I am not drinking these beers. < 1314592261 579815 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might revalue it and re-back it. < 1314592263 619023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly that is a problem. < 1314592269 55027 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, though. < 1314592271 228117 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doing such will probably aid in my debugging skills. < 1314592297 409516 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcohol tends to put me in a bad programming mindset. < 1314592300 935067 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caffeine as well... < 1314592312 363596 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if I need to do something mindless and repetitive, caffeine is great. < 1314592325 833234 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my critical thinking skills go down the tubes when I have too much caffeine. < 1314592344 949592 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, if you're using a language where there are mindless and repetitive tasks to be done, that might be your real problem. < 1314592360 534427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the real problem here is that THIS DOCUMENTATION LIES < 1314592366 530309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says call backs can take 0-3 arguments < 1314592379 101014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I give it a callback with one argument, and it calls it with zero < 1314592427 507168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :self argument < 1314592431 268561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ CakeProphet < 1314592449 968087 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :onOperatorMatch() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given) < 1314592457 563071 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were being called as a method it would give me 1 argument. < 1314592457 779234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :self argument < 1314592460 132072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least. < 1314592462 973840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1314592507 140151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1314592512 335113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding the line: tokens = tokens.asList() < 1314592515 272509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly fixes everything < 1314592620 703271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even see how that's possible < 1314592652 663411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would adding a line of code in my callback change the way it's called... < 1314592682 924027 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: print type(tokens) to see what's up? < 1314592698 604903 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or...what? < 1314592806 71419 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokens is a ParseResult. that doesn't really have anything to do with my confusion. < 1314592822 74139 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my confusion is: before, my function was called with zero arguments. I add a line of code _in that function_, and it is called with 1. < 1314592942 926807 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: \(°_o)/ < 1314592966 732810 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1314592980 618214 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314593246 979630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: pyparsing seems to put a function wrapper around my function before it's called. < 1314593270 815588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the wrapper uses some kind of exception handling hack to detect which number of arguments to use. < 1314593289 640436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, an exception in my code was triggering that hack, and giving me an obtuse error message as a result. < 1314593297 928815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing my codes error fixed the problem. < 1314593334 252595 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blurg. < 1314593348 774184 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing about this makes me cringe at a design I haven't even looked at. < 1314593355 870571 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pyparsing's, that is. < 1314593366 378385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really they should have used inspect to get the actual number of arguments. < 1314593432 9318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> inspect.getargspec(test) < 1314593433 146804 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ArgSpec(args=['a', 'b', 'c'], varargs=None, keywords=None, defaults=None) < 1314593454 83640 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much simpler. < 1314593539 920432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to play Scope or Pasur? < 1314593616 356013 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1314593627 894068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: granted the logic is still a bit more complicated than just taking len(spec.args), but it's not much more difficult than that and it would be _accurate_ < 1314593708 874422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess the situation could also be improved by fixing Python's exception hierarchy < 1314593720 479441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :call to a function with too few / too many arguments = TypeError < 1314593722 228566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1314593725 62367 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314593913 275136 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THROW TYPEERROR FOR ALL THE THINGS < 1314593937 65112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError is pretty common yes. < 1314593955 663447 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError and ValueError are common for logic bugs. < 1314593964 221647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though AttributeError can sometimes be the result of a type error. < 1314593995 424017 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't most exceptions boil down to "argument was too high/low/otherwise invalid"? < 1314594001 164045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no....? < 1314594018 45756 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean in Python. < 1314594020 138570 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in general. < 1314594027 381556 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> also no? < 1314594028 350900 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name an exception that isn't one of those things. < 1314594042 454083 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NameError, IndexError, ImportError < 1314594049 485220 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than "something blew up that was totally beyond our control". < 1314594059 667355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python import foo < 1314594060 514066 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1314594071 35973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> oh, well yeah that's supposed to say ImportError < 1314594083 581039 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so the argument "foo" was invalid for "import". < 1314594115 542656 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It boils down to "you fucked up" or "something beyond the scope of your program fucked up". < 1314594123 968449 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you're going to argue that NameError is just locals()["variable"] which is silly because that's not how it owrks. < 1314594126 929240 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boil boil boil. < 1314594148 961366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :locals().__getkey__("variable") oh look invalid function call=. < 1314594169 863300 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouFuckedUpException < 1314594174 257418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: hammer, nail < 1314594256 967165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: also you changed your definition of what _all exceptions ever_ are at least once now. < 1314594259 11319 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cactus, Dom DeLuise? < 1314594272 76714 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grouped the earlier three categories. < 1314594281 298674 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I intended them as one. < 1314594283 820743 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But didn't make it clear. < 1314594304 628876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes "you fucked up" is often a good a characterization of exceptions. < 1314594312 765773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is not the same as "function argument too low / too high/ invalid" < 1314594348 265844 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say "function", but I would argue that it is. < 1314594360 160211 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a pointless argument. < 1314594364 29253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :< evincar> Don't most exceptions boil down to "argument was too high/low/otherwise invalid"? < 1314594364 669548 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I won't. < 1314594370 378081 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else has arguments? < 1314594393 34088 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. Statements have "operands" I guess. < 1314594411 119357 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that you're supplying an invalid value to a function somewhere. < 1314594413 610985 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically now you're saying "an exception is an exceptional circumstance of the program" < 1314594418 774799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how tautological < 1314594428 441061 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, specifically an invalid argument. < 1314594437 958192 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't supposed to be a profound statement. < 1314594441 782015 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just keep talking about it. < 1314594450 758563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x < 1314594452 808963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1314594458 253021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1314594460 620641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> hahahaha < 1314594461 463787 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `hahahaha' < 1314594503 927278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> def test()) < 1314594505 981771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1314594510 834309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1314594549 708116 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you passed an invalid token sequence to the parser. :P < 1314594573 45064 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this still going on? < 1314594575 869669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> while True: 1+1 < 1314594576 202994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314594576 863528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyboardInterrupt < 1314594577 196804 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go work on your program. < 1314594667 516125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> iter([]).next() < 1314594668 615304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314594671 754752 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :StopIteration < 1314594740 112170 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I like how warnings in Python are actually exceptions. < 1314594797 460450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings that stop your program aren't really very warning-like. < 1314594827 554976 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: YOUR PROGRAM ISNT RUNNING! < 1314594843 591567 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should probably be a setting that suppresses those yes? < 1314594845 889310 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait nevermind that's not how warnings work. < 1314594851 477287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they don't raise exceptions < 1314594876 698744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just have exceptions associated with them, that you can use with the warnings modules to filter warnings and stuff. < 1314594900 805289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it make such a thing as "Haskell computer"? < 1314594924 861744 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You mean can such a thing be made? < 1314594976 468551 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. What fundaments of Haskell should be implemented in hardware? < 1314594983 354232 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1314594987 706247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduceron < 1314594990 527835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :google it < 1314594993 484467 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: no he's currently impersonating Buffalo Bill. < 1314595018 821063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/) < 1314595056 436262 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly enough, I've read this. < 1314595061 598866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduceron is also a good name for a giant planet decimating robot. < 1314595073 245016 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must've come by it while looking up something Haskell-related. < 1314595082 147137 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I can't imagine what. < 1314595093 922708 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering I don't use Haskell. < 1314595124 758435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isnt the personal character flaws channel :P < 1314595128 507850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you totally should. < 1314595171 549733 :braap!62ea2b52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.234.43.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314595207 881285 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1314595207 953691 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got nothing against it. < 1314595211 77682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :braap braap < 1314595232 642753 :braap!62ea2b52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.234.43.82 QUIT :Client Quit < 1314595247 127974 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314595258 587388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lots of things against most languages. < 1314595262 375875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a language antagonist. < 1314595265 658601 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314595280 635395 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lots of things against most languages as well. what are we talking about, now? < 1314595314 758480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sarcastic actually. < 1314595321 714419 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't 8)) < 1314595330 89718 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy however is a vile fundamentalist. < 1314595336 373129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus we are destined to be language enemies. < 1314595341 505649 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard for me to feel legitimate, disliking a language I don't use. < 1314595347 337837 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just reserve judgement. < 1314595429 204129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator_names = map(itemgetter(0), operator_table) < 1314595434 333403 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeee duck typing + functional programming < 1314595448 735937 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is that? < 1314595452 8819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :python < 1314595463 621168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itemgetter is from the operator module < 1314595490 724175 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> operator.itemgetter(2)([1,2,3]) < 1314595491 56768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1314595499 861893 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dying < 1314595527 253215 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the fact that such constructs are possible in Python is a vast improvement over most languages. < 1314595538 312792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possible and in the standard library < 1314595547 947090 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages suck < 1314595569 189621 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, have fun with the crappy lambdas >.> < 1314595578 720971 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yeah I don't use them ever... < 1314595585 88179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much rather define named functions. < 1314595600 19073 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :names are for losers < 1314595642 180931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> map(functools.partial(operator.add, 1), [1,2,3]) < 1314595642 352477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2, 3, 4] < 1314595650 136535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional programming in Python is very, uh, natural. < 1314595690 240131 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very uhnatural. < 1314595700 815014 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there possibility of converting GHC Core codes to F-lite codes? < 1314595703 614490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not /too/ bad if you get ride of the module names. < 1314595708 923624 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rid < 1314595722 606616 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1314595724 75500 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will never not be too bad < 1314595728 891126 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1314595728 962807 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1314595731 990710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :map(partial(add, 1), count(1)) < 1314595738 506454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :count(1) being like [1..] in Haskell < 1314595764 864469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you'll want to use imap from itertools actually. < 1314595768 160058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to maintain laziness; < 1314595769 480203 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is count a what generator then < 1314595778 428479 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1314595788 608707 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an iterator actually. < 1314595795 802576 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python terms I will never memorise < 1314595806 757126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually generator just means a function that returns an iterator < 1314595810 156517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, that is a generator < 1314595826 409569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait, no. fuck I don't know :P < 1314595870 906691 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itertools basically has a bunch of lazy versions of python list functions. pretty handy module. < 1314595879 733874 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish functools came with more utilities. < 1314595902 677229 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in Javascript any function with "yield" is a generator function, it returns a Generator object and does not execute until the Generator object is called, and then it returns the first yield, it can be called next time to execute up to and returning the value of the next yield, and so on. < 1314595926 299539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially the same in Python. < 1314595928 236646 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, similar to Python < 1314595938 467239 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Python also has the whole coroutine thing. < 1314595950 48080 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314595974 231364 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1314596158 528293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's really fun to look at? < 1314596167 128865 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s operator precedence chart. < 1314596173 359727 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1314596183 457630 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s operator precedence is bad. < 1314596186 771063 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dumb and bad. < 1314596199 352143 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what makes it fun < 1314596214 420358 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess writing those lazy parsing iterators was kinda fun. < 1314596217 413393 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a horrifying way. < 1314596227 644576 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this being said by monqy, the language purist. < 1314596236 85068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not sarcastically what so ever. < 1314596256 119374 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad things can be fun by virtue of being bad. < 1314596268 36904 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :telling when or how much I'm joking at any given time may prove difficult < 1314596270 487577 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had plenty of fun movie nights with less-than-excellent-quality films. < 1314596290 368911 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what language has good operator precedence rules? < 1314596295 115622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1314596296 247320 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AECMBSP < 1314596300 182636 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its lisp < 1314596301 645841 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also J < 1314596324 74428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I love mounds of parens. < 1314596324 239056 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Factor. < 1314596332 142272 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Forth. < 1314596336 545340 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I love Perl so much. all the parens. < 1314596345 845772 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whatever the hell I'm calling the language I'm working on. < 1314596351 473241 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's code-named "Very" at the moment. < 1314596362 809363 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to come up with the least searchable language name I could. < 1314596370 376495 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I failed, but it was a good time. < 1314596373 895358 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Null < 1314596384 768467 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of < 1314596392 794928 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "Null". "" < 1314596409 551686 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the name of that one Sigur Rós album, ( ) < 1314596418 69327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :name it an operator character so google won't work < 1314596425 609712 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the most painfully artsy thing that has ever been produced. < 1314596442 125400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" " would also work < 1314596456 141828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :site:goatse.bz < 1314596457 264289 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a literal mess of parentheses < 1314596477 518048 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((((((((())))))))) < 1314596483 42360 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too clean < 1314596489 813559 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :())()(()))()()()((()()()()()()()))((()(()() < 1314596491 975969 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing an end-paren < 1314596505 540451 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing several parens. < 1314596506 794193 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still too lcean < 1314596522 446116 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to mine >.> < 1314596523 751498 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(()(){[]][[]][}}}{[]())()(({}}{{}}0[((){]-0) < 1314596529 198539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ replicateM 20 "()" < 1314596529 270651 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 0s and - are for artistic effect < 1314596530 261113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1048576 < 1314596542 302745 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM? < 1314596547 26233 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM. < 1314596552 52517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 20 "()" !! (1048576/2) < 1314596553 348144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1314596553 419783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1314596558 707829 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hheheheh < 1314596560 855440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 20 "()" !! (1048576 `div` 2) < 1314596561 530767 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the GPLv3 encoded in octal where the digits are ([{<>}]). < 1314596562 57654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ")(((((((((((((((((((" < 1314596567 225151 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name < 1314596576 325397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 20 "()" !! (1048576 `div` 3) < 1314596577 700603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "()()()()()()()()()()" < 1314596581 535506 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314596590 486907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 20 "()" !! (1048576 `div` 10) < 1314596591 301255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "((())(())(())(())(()" < 1314596597 893878 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 2 "()" < 1314596598 643908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["((","()",")(","))"] < 1314596625 264546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicateM` "abc") =<< [0..] < 1314596625 989750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","a... < 1314596643 390535 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"replicateM n act performs the action n times, gathering the results. < 1314596643 487146 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1314596649 765259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1314596650 418548 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicateM` "abc") -<< [0..] < 1314596651 376612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `-<<' < 1314596653 688767 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1314596657 275835 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"performs the action". Entirely, 100% clear outside of the IO monad < 1314596661 149518 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..] >>- (`replicateM` "abc") < 1314596662 11518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","aa","b","aaa","c","ab","aaaa","ac","aab","ba","aaaaa","bb","aac","... < 1314596672 249431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: >> I believe < 1314596674 269362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM < 1314596674 341295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM n x = sequence (replicate n x) < 1314596681 722346 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the list monad's not all that intuitive to me < 1314596683 437390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence < 1314596683 509931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence [] = return [] < 1314596683 581786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs) < 1314596683 581926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR: sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) < 1314596699 448680 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it < 1314596700 920981 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: >> doesn't gather results so it couldn't be that < 1314596716 142481 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list monad is easy < 1314596743 670159 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when documentation talks about monads in terms of their "actions" < 1314596774 943189 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking of the list monad as nondeterministic computation, a list action is a list of possible results < 1314596817 331877 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew the nondeterministic thing, just didn't think of it as an "action", ty < 1314596894 332171 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicate` "abc") =<< [0..] < 1314596895 196969 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","abc","a... < 1314596920 536316 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1314596945 850113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence $ (`replicate` "abc") =<< [0..] < 1314596947 223647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1314596975 511617 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence "abc" < 1314596976 185580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `m a' < 1314596976 257194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1314596983 585060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "abc"] < 1314596984 351089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc"] < 1314597006 633421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "cba"] < 1314597007 596887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ac","ab","aa","bc","bb","ba","cc","cb","ca"] < 1314597020 33317 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "123"] < 1314597020 720489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a1","a2","a3","b1","b2","b3","c1","c2","c3"] < 1314597046 294501 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "123", "!@#"] < 1314597046 999763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a1!","a1@","a1#","a2!","a2@","a2#","a3!","a3@","a3#","b1!","b1@","b1#","b... < 1314597047 276648 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence in list monad is handy < 1314597072 41880 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does lambdabot have syb < 1314597073 305756 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT reverse) [1..10] < 1314597074 364485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1314597074 436760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Typeable.Typeable a... < 1314597076 160016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1314597086 526886 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (reverse :: Integer -> Integer)) [1..10] < 1314597087 218459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Integer.Type.Integer' < 1314597087 290035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1314597091 483904 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops oops < 1314597091 791396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t everywhere < 1314597092 566048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Data a) => (forall a1. (Data a1) => a1 -> a1) -> a -> a < 1314597100 496180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1314597105 602717 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (reverse :: [Integer] -> [Integer])) [1..10] < 1314597106 293088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,6,8,10,9,7,5,3,1] < 1314597110 875056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes lambdabot has syb < 1314597132 552032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mkT < 1314597133 267230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (Typeable a, Typeable b) => (b -> b) -> a -> a < 1314597143 322180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1314597147 315827 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (reverse :: [Integer] -> [Integer]) `extT` (succ :: Integer -> Integer)) [1..10] < 1314597148 194051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,5,7,9,11,10,8,6,4,2] < 1314597177 414086 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's this girl I know who's a software engineering major. < 1314597204 634254 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (map toUpper :: String -> String)) "hello" < 1314597205 313920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "HELLO" < 1314597206 82233 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she was trying to argue today that iteration is more intuitive than recursion. < 1314597210 684373 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (reverse :: [Integer] -> [Integer]) `extT` ((:[]) :: Integer -> [Integer]) `extT` (concat :: [[Integer]] -> [Integer])) [1..10] < 1314597211 303485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Integer.Type.Integer' < 1314597211 375334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1314597213 687247 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1314597227 726414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: lolno < 1314597228 207863 :nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tend to disagree with that viewpoint < 1314597230 310748 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wept. < 1314597239 627092 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really. < 1314597240 687987 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: for simple algorithms, maybe. < 1314597243 279339 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just told her she was wrong. < 1314597247 111121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... not really. < 1314597250 955862 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least misguided. < 1314597251 380515 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same thing. < 1314597265 284598 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is... < 1314597280 892960 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but there's internal repetition and external repetition... < 1314597300 379446 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and internal repetition is usually more intuitive for, y'know, decomposing problems. < 1314597312 280449 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't fault her. < 1314597313 853740 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion is less confusing to me < 1314597313 940014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're just making up terms now. < 1314597324 55808 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion is also cleaner < 1314597327 257399 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion is also better < 1314597327 513441 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's only studied a quarter of Python and two quarters of Java. < 1314597340 94899 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not self-taught? pfffffffffffft < 1314597341 156908 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you just know they didn't get into any FP. < 1314597346 345275 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not as efficient if unoptimized, however. < 1314597362 640245 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's surprisingly good for having just started. < 1314597364 807760 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To her credit. < 1314597376 457148 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But her process is so...processy. < 1314597377 271231 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-163-33.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1314597379 702668 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Businessy. < 1314597414 414701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl join . sequence < 1314597414 487918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . sequence < 1314597425 381931 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: congratulations < 1314597448 952460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (join . sequence :: String -> String)) "hello" < 1314597449 654333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1314597449 726394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1314597462 570620 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-235-32.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1314597504 649146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1314597601 201330 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion vs iteration < 1314597605 983327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1314597620 296273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think itidus20 is a bot. < 1314597630 426301 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tail-optimizable recursion might not be that intuitive all the time < 1314597651 212199 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if one is more intuitive than another < 1314597667 207141 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1314597675 274375 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't tail-calls make more sense to someone who prefers iteration? < 1314597694 783462 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, just gonna point out, everydamnthing is a fractal. < 1314597705 640851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1314597726 319690 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In nature. Many things exhibit fractal characteristics. They're recursive, in a way. < 1314597744 233449 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From clouds to rocks to brains to coastlines. < 1314597751 840868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I just didn't association nature to everydamnthing < 1314597773 749712 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You bloody well should. < 1314597784 980583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think coastlines are fractals. < 1314597785 53265 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1314597792 260053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've never heard of brains being fractals. < 1314597797 941104 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> everywhere (mkT (reverse :: [Integer] -> [Integer])) (take 5 $ inits [0..]) < 1314597798 619128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[0],[1,0],[1,2,0],[1,3,2,0]] < 1314597801 306065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but plants, sure, kind of. < 1314597806 493151 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unpacking a truck is iterative < 1314597806 794942 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talking about self-similarity here. < 1314597807 506189 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1314597814 992568 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i messed up :( < 1314597833 766810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you can also describe unpacking a truck recursively. < 1314597834 323244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : also I don't think coastlines are fractals. < 1314597836 866826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are. < 1314597840 840178 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your brain, there is an arrangement of weights in your neurons that mirrors the outside world, and one that mirrors yourself. < 1314597846 536 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thank you. < 1314597846 509252 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might be wrong < 1314597857 28516 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Go read Mandelbrot's paper on it. < 1314597857 114922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how does that work. Where is the self-similarity? < 1314597859 243059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: < 1314597864 33340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast_of_Britain%3F_Statistical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension < 1314597867 957656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fractals_by_Hausdorff_dimension#Random_and_natural_fractals (fourth item) < 1314597877 22230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hausdorf dimension of the coast of Britain ~= 1.25 < 1314597878 656435 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractional dimension isn't necessarily restricted to self-similar structure. < 1314597892 192411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(credit to Lewis Fry Richardson, popularised by above Mandelbrot paper) < 1314597896 138850 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how exactly would you do that? @ unpacking a truck < 1314597905 584795 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :describing it recursively i mean < 1314597937 929322 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpack first:rest = unpackOne(first) + unpack(rest)? < 1314597942 772432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: to unpack a truck with 0 items, you sit back and relax. to unpack a truck with n items, you remove one item from the truck, and then unpack a truck with n-1 items. < 1314597944 545671 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok humm < 1314597971 572325 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is iteration is a specialization of recursion? < 1314597975 906150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1314597980 226485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. < 1314597992 564836 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're computationally equivalent. < 1314598005 609577 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither's really a specialisation of the other. < 1314598006 626544 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpacking a truck: mapM_ unpack stuff < 1314598011 193789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally the same kinds of problems can be solved with both approaches. however the iterative approach uses extra data structures that are hidden away in the mechanism of recurson. < 1314598023 133266 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+i < 1314598034 93151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: iteration is a specific kind of recursion. < 1314598035 883504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: false < 1314598039 614620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: iteration is equivalent to tail recursion only < 1314598043 419069 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you figure out the order of specificness of patterns in case alternatives? Would it work to count how many constructors are mentioned? < 1314598084 92188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would a tree structure work? < 1314598104 978505 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is recursion slower and uses more memory for the same task? < 1314598127 790367 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :only on a typical computer perhaps ^_^; < 1314598144 176647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: mu < 1314598150 9158 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers aren't built for recursion after all < 1314598159 98400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwarranted assumption. < 1314598168 187076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit unjustified assumption: computers are built for iteration. < 1314598180 8579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit unjustified assumption: recursion can never be compiled to iteration. < 1314598188 456801 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1314598192 224821 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're built for GOTOs, aren't they? Or am I mistaken? < 1314598196 723878 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that last one is interesting < 1314598212 663832 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but I was only saying that any recursive function can be expressed iteratively. < 1314598239 700959 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you emulate the call stack or what have you < 1314598248 595326 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the compiler can handle such things, then efficiency is no longer an issue < 1314598260 882736 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its a matter of what is more usable < 1314598266 769525 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~recursion~ < 1314598267 529745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: also assumption: the fact that hardware is not specifically created for recursion means it's inefficient to recurse. < 1314598271 4937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of these things are good assumptions < 1314598295 107533 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's memory-inefficient to non-tail-recurse, isn't it? < 1314598297 301360 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware these days, and instruction sets specifically, are pretty obviously geared toward compiler writers. < 1314598318 703580 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h,,m? < 1314598345 442042 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^;; < 1314598347 214454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: in lazy languages, nearly irrelevant. < 1314598363 949919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail recursive functions can leak stack and non-tail recursive functions can use constant space. < 1314598392 72424 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail recursive functions can leak stack? How so? < 1314598449 770880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use a slightly different definition in my work; leaking stack means that it's not tail recursion even if it looks like it < 1314598462 438065 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :space doesn't really matter.. < 1314598495 366740 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = if n == 0 then 1 else n * fac (n - 1) in fac 1000 < 1314598496 49380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 402387260077093773543702433923003985719374864210714632543799910429938512398... < 1314598498 188603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tail recursion is a syntactic thing < 1314598500 963103 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = if n == 0 then 1 else n * fac (n - 1) in fac 100000 < 1314598504 580087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1314598504 969825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: space means memory. < 1314598514 90914 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1314598515 571351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, "not a legal target for a tail recursion operator" < 1314598518 217801 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time limit, not space limit, bleh. < 1314598528 648747 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = if n == 0 then 1 else n * fac (n - 1) in fac 10^100 < 1314598529 369031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 946898192795960083943247682213801587131773992158187493243695155509789235917... < 1314598616 814389 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10^100 < 1314598617 476936 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... < 1314598633 513694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think [2,3] is equally specific as [2,3,4] even though the former mentions five constructors and the latter mentions seven constructors < 1314598813 474795 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my assumptions are founded on cognitive dissonance < 1314598823 571784 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good foundation for any healthy assumption < 1314598824 127445 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1314598828 829884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably sleep < 1314598915 862159 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does fac 10^100 seem to work decently? < 1314598922 159769 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = if n == 0 then 1 else n * fac (n - 1) in fac (10^100) < 1314598923 641450 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1314598930 220454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1314598931 23428 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mumbles about precedence
< 1314599213 18719 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Neil Gaiman's daughter is Madeleine Rose Elvira Gaiman. < 1314599221 608870 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dated a Madeleine Rose. < 1314599255 857007 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was insane, and not in the usual sense that guys say their ex-girlfriends are insane. < 1314599321 489824 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm thinking of adding macros to Very but it would involve making parsing the source require executing it. :( < 1314599356 431959 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might hold off on that. < 1314599501 964158 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: how do you know what guys mean about their ex's being insane? :D < 1314599534 714585 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I've asked. < 1314599536 980483 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry.. yeah.. women can really be insane < 1314599548 743892 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. Had nothing to do with the fact that she's female. < 1314599583 99070 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity can be attractive up to a limit < 1314599607 556004 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's just self-absorbed, elitist, and New Agey, and always had to get her way or would shut down. < 1314599685 103833 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demonstrates mental illness, but I shouldn't get into it. < 1314599685 103885 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I dated her for...almost three years? Two and a half? < 1314599709 269390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing you said is actually related to mental illness; signed, someone with mental illnesses < 1314599723 982459 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really want to talk about the legitimately wrong things. < 1314599731 134439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1314599775 966336 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I dunno. It's a bit disrespectful. < 1314599783 145814 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I've already passed that line somewhere. < 1314599796 606699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling someone insane is generally seen as disrespectful in most cultures, I think < 1314599867 766552 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :she probably reads psychology books and plays mind games < 1314599889 91403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"she probably reads psychology books and plays mind games" -- itidus20, expert on women < 1314599890 796580 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so she was depressed, suicidal, would hit and starve herself, sucked her thumb, and I'm sure I'm forgetting things. < 1314599905 509405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly the thumb-sucking, right? < 1314599932 518401 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically she was spoiled to the point of it negatively affecting her life and the lives of those around her. < 1314599938 669551 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But her parents didn't do the spoiling. < 1314599939 966088 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody did. < 1314599945 115529 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was just *like that*. < 1314599975 844244 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will put this all into context < 1314599989 67963 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find out about these things all at once. < 1314599993 79357 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar was casually trying to read about neil gaiman, and then his daughters name triggered memories of his insane ex < 1314599999 452034 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was away at school most of the time. < 1314600003 80784 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's how it went on so long. < 1314600009 104295 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that's exactly what happened. < 1314600014 771067 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a shitty period in my life. < 1314600022 982656 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not exactly relevant to your interests, all. < 1314600048 507018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously what has thumb-sucking got to do with anything < 1314600092 614523 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a symptom, indicative of his ex's manifold of insanity < 1314600119 581919 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it "not a good sign that she's a well-adjusted adult". < 1314600145 600772 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anyone who is well adjusted to be honest except my relatives < 1314600169 508974 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relative thing. I know plenty of people who are perfectly stable in day-to-day life. < 1314600173 874294 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in relationships they go batty. < 1314600177 5182 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with relatives, they always seem so well adjusted.. except the uncle who home-brews his beer and tells dirty jokes loudly < 1314600229 136008 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: because of having painful conversations with this girl on IM while my roommate ate food behind me, I now have a unique response to that sound. < 1314600260 914844 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, if someone eats sloppy or crunchy food around me, especially while I'm on a computer, I get stressed and disoriented and need to leave. < 1314600260 997523 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: so all these associative triggers need to be purged? < 1314600279 414643 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of sad how Pavlovian conditioning works. < 1314600279 998605 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. wow. < 1314600292 294865 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that's just a fun snippet. < 1314600295 687994 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done. < 1314600304 601957 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can refer to my previous statement: "she probably reads psychology books and plays mind games" -- itidus20, expert on women < 1314600326 164630 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he was being sarcastic but that is probably for good reason < 1314600337 836378 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst part was, she was totally unaware that anything she did bothered me. :P < 1314600343 697662 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lied constantly. < 1314600350 115968 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I don't. < 1314600355 49895 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my life is full of win. < 1314600364 213546 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you poor thing.. women can often tell when a man is lying < 1314600386 405364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/women/people/ s/man/person/ < 1314600392 994294 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lied compulsively for like eight years. < 1314600398 727650 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I got pretty good at it. < 1314600410 65157 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, the female gender is especially good at reading body language >:) < 1314600428 303909 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1314600441 475825 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine.. more unwarranted assumptions < 1314600443 127466 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :from me < 1314600449 36837 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :graaahhh! < 1314600460 40 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gender/sex/, then define female sex unambiguously (you will have an almost impossible time doing this) < 1314600461 669006 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any evidence for my opinion that the sexes are roughly evenly matched... < 1314600467 511181 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's a reasonable assumption. < 1314600467 938147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION -- THE GREAT ANTAGONIST
< 1314600474 802259 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can play the "bisexual" card if necessary. < 1314600479 821776 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if that helps. < 1314600520 428909 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, yeah, it's practically impossible to determine the gender of an individual in a rigorous way. < 1314600531 580776 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks like a female, call it a female. < 1314600534 62478 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I say. < 1314600586 461590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask < 1314600600 954408 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I appreciate transsexuals have a hard time, but the ones that insist on being called male when they're obviously female, and get angry when strangers "mistake" them for the biological gender that they are, are not winning any points with me. < 1314600625 222917 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can want to live for a while as the other gender, and that's great. < 1314600632 952562 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But...you have to cut people some slack. < 1314600685 257421 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asking is frowned upon for some reason. < 1314600758 273592 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: theres a few schools of thought i think on this matter of traumatic associations < 1314600789 592495 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is to simply try to avoid the stimulus.. i think this kind of works. < 1314600813 941005 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a price to pay also.. it involves kind of micromanaging ones environment < 1314600851 959111 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i should also point out that for example.. if your town is ravaged by a world war that there could be no escaping the reminders < 1314600894 870207 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314600905 491651 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative i do not understand so well < 1314600916 8464 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, how to combat conditioning < 1314600923 844248 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'm pretty sure no one's gonna be eating beans behind me while I program, in the event of my obscure New Hampshire town being ravaged by world war. < 1314600933 359276 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, this is an excellent place to be in the event of a zombie apocalypse. < 1314600958 510851 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: what i mean is that if a war is the source of your trauma, it would be kind of inescapable < 1314600962 724323 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the hills, 10 miles from the nearest city, plenty of fresh water, everyone has guns, and a forest full of game. < 1314600996 971604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1314601013 626094 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expectation that it should be somehow easy to get over it is wrong of course < 1314601074 842179 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems intuitive that beans shouldn't have such an effect on someone. however the truth is that it does. it is not about your strength, but it is just that the damage done is deeper than it appears < 1314601110 144390 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not damage, though. < 1314601116 113755 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Pavlovian conditioning. < 1314601127 77599 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply *associate* that sound with the feeling of a need to escape. < 1314601141 957501 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't the worst feeling. < 1314601142 903499 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it not damage? < 1314601145 956552 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not painful. < 1314601169 362357 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gotten me out on a nice long walk on more than one occasion. < 1314601208 42030 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was to bestow on someone an association between the sound of eating beans and the need to escape, would they not be damaged by it? < 1314601279 275648 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not beans specifically. < 1314601287 463078 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I wouldn't count it as damage. < 1314601305 546487 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a person is better off without it then i think its damage < 1314601315 397566 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used beans as an example because I could really go for some beans. < 1314601323 410044 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^crunchy foods < 1314601323 758993 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Heinz ones, in the sauce. Mm. < 1314601416 455303 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's so oddly specific that it's not a detriment, anyway. < 1314601423 804059 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real trouble is assuming we are entirely responsible for our mental wellbeing through application of willpower < 1314601428 829941 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when clearly there is more going on < 1314601456 559076 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like just sitting and the thoughts gather and an overwhelming storm of thoughts < 1314601485 197155 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the errors introduced by one pavlovian conditioning piled upon another < 1314601491 812670 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon you are very far from the truth < 1314601515 459789 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or...it's an amusing anecdote. < 1314601528 992512 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I ask my roommate to please not eat that right now while I'm trying to work. < 1314601553 375915 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like trying to guide a robotic arm, where each of the joints has a slightly inaccurate rotation < 1314601573 443623 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and collectively the inaccuracies end up with the robot's arm far from where you expected < 1314601614 117905 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really account for every last piece of traumatic conditioning... they don't stop < 1314601627 399062 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they occasionally stop... but not enough < 1314601648 116793 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're talking about something much broader than what I am. :P < 1314601675 322769 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to be honest I'm not really interested in examining the psychology of it. < 1314601687 298377 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or philosophical implications or whatever. < 1314601712 968685 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rational aspect of the mind tries to explain it all... but it can't < 1314601765 507167 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is practically useless to be rational about these things < 1314601829 851301 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched indiana jones 4 on tv the other day.. he is trapped in quicksand kinda < 1314601855 321814 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone brings him a snake for him to use as a rope < 1314601867 512385 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can't grab it because of his phobia < 1314601886 269947 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he tells the guy "don't call it a snake! tell me to grab the rope!" < 1314601903 599521 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he is able to grab the snake when the guy says "grab the rope" < 1314601962 618995 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not rational, but it worked (i know its only fiction) < 1314602680 188725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314602714 603176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happen in Haskell if you make instance of Eq class but == operator is not commutative? Or if == and /= are not the "not" of each other? < 1314602742 117762 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things will break < 1314603075 382331 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not work as expected < 1314603209 538415 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone interested in starting a country? < 1314603221 491533 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had this idea called "Opensourcia" floating around for awhile. < 1314603350 162118 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds miserable < 1314603435 321351 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take that as a no. < 1314603458 697846 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should Very have references? < 1314603468 128881 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently everything's done with values. < 1314603472 447078 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it matters much I guess. < 1314603498 614238 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 dup results in two copies of "3", not two references to the same instance. < 1314603532 749461 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have sharing :) < 1314603560 945292 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharing is nice. It'd increase performance probably. < 1314604243 731236 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1314604246 161127 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's opensourcia < 1314604304 484025 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I was thinking about the possibility of a government with full transparency. < 1314604313 729549 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citizens submit bug reports in laws. < 1314604316 650890 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing. < 1314604325 91529 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1314604337 656863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about the BLISS programming language? < 1314604340 966377 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The currency would be fixed to the population. < 1314604342 976277 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is bliss < 1314604355 513082 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the currency would be fixed to the population"? helo? < 1314604357 786614 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help, I mean < 1314604357 940815 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug reports assume that there is a desired and an undesired outcome < 1314604365 953278 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1314604375 582741 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :with laws, there will always be some people who desire another outcome as you < 1314604377 762016 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The total amount of Opensourcian dollars would be limited based on the population of Opensourcia. < 1314604404 964467 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because every society has a big part which is speculative or criminal < 1314604407 769818 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we wouldn't legislate things that are contentious. < 1314604414 926043 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in some detail < 1314604429 353559 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be individual and minor court settlement, mostly. < 1314604434 896282 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a majority of people have crossed the street at a red light at least once < 1314604446 36611 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes evincar < 1314604456 98517 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've just described every law system in existence < 1314604459 620366 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the majority of laws can be made discretionary. < 1314604467 210361 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except your bug reports are called court cases < 1314604474 866957 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is tantamount to not having them. < 1314604488 699685 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do mathematicians want these days? Are they coming to terms with the fact that their knowledge is effectively a meaningless excuse to sit at a desk and press keys? < 1314604494 66501 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. Court cases don't go meta. < 1314604494 861788 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there something more going on? < 1314604499 685719 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot abide by laws you do not understand < 1314604513 539035 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... < 1314604527 944943 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's another topic. < 1314604529 553122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLISS was designed in 1970. < 1314604534 331420 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily changing laws are not possible to understand in any sort of even slightly complex situation < 1314604544 526466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1314604558 633602 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1314604564 508684 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians are useful for "me"... but are mathematicians useful for themselves? < 1314604581 922072 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not arbitrary, but okay. < 1314604585 667334 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they a kind of labor force of the mind... industrialized < 1314604587 850591 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time court cases are just discourse that establishes facts and brings up relevant laws, trying to reduce the situation at hand to the outcome pointed to by the laws < 1314604599 359003 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :most arguments are about the interpretation of said laws < 1314604604 544653 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's all publicly available anyway. < 1314604616 9512 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are very few so called first precedents happening < 1314604625 83766 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics: the sweatshop of the intellect < 1314604667 77680 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, i have no idea where ever you would get a stupid notion like this < 1314604679 71810 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is applicable in lots and lots of places < 1314604682 94034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more entertaining place than you get yours < 1314604687 551796 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a half-formed idea anyway. < 1314604708 701562 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just brought it up because I was curious what people's reactions would be. < 1314604726 935785 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's largely just a name. < 1314604738 686140 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And really, most open-source projects are run by "benevolent dictators". < 1314604755 222768 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :government transparency and openness is a target for many countries < 1314604758 524533 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all < 1314604760 230947 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: but still, are mathematicians nothing more than a highly paid sweatshop < 1314604805 630573 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: benevolent dictators such as yourself? < 1314604808 562896 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :however most governments are structures that are very dated and it's difficult to roll out institutional transparency < 1314604819 610707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did evincar say benevolent dictator < 1314604831 942579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me evincar proposed government by benevolent dictator < 1314604842 135155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guido 4 prez < 1314604884 96102 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: it is the way that mathematicians seem to acknowledge that nothing new is really encountered.. they just provide formal proofs for things which are already known etc < 1314604885 441629 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said "benevolent dictator" in relation to open source projects, connecting that to his opensourcia < 1314604897 437641 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i drew the ocnnectione..... < 1314604922 41552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opensourcia "one nation under god (god is a fake, evincar rules the place instead)" < 1314604926 428621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(official motto) < 1314604951 453789 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't make a good leader. < 1314604960 288631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In BLISS, if you want to read the value of a variable you must prefix it with a dot < 1314604963 718747 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I am a good leader when forced into the position. < 1314604967 275937 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't like it. < 1314604979 101250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wouldn't make a good leader." "I am a good leader" < 1314604983 301660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- e v. incar < 1314604986 297103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :founder of opensourcia < 1314604987 391441 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a Pompous Grand Vizier type. < 1314604996 538037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ dollar sign/nothing/oops < 1314605001 949606 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to correcting yourself. < 1314605007 64156 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you're a functional programmer. < 1314605010 489673 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no mutation. < 1314605019 252740 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how you got confused. < 1314605064 404340 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's a timestamp. < 1314605067 331572 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP! < 1314605069 795249 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1314605076 22180 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All is well. < 1314605092 600263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what is FRP" -- e v. incar, founder of opensourcia, motto: "what is frp" < 1314605106 334362 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that is wrong, new things are encountered, the notion is that they are not created. < 1314605124 109703 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a deep philosophical rather than every day notion < 1314605145 42384 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bad joke or am i really poking fun at functional programeng and eliot" - evincar, one and only supreme führer of open source ia < 1314605164 123095 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, or to better word it, things are encountered anew < 1314605172 325566 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not new, but are new to you! < 1314605201 826458 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Can't it be both? < 1314605211 493300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is frp is a really good country motto < 1314605220 548560 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was an inclusve ore... < 1314605222 361171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to live in a country whose motto is "what is frp" < 1314605237 64238 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may want to reconsider. < 1314605315 341440 :evincar!~jon@pool-70-16-215-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: Anyway, sleep. < 1314605319 874791 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye evincar < 1314605364 129800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bye evincar" --monqy, enemy of opensourcia, motto: "what isn't frp" < 1314605384 847026 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im proprietaria < 1314605405 448019 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry went afk < 1314605437 959441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :proprietaria < 1314605451 162 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proprietaria < 1314605458 37315 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: i am projecting. as in, i am taking those things i percieve in myself and accusing you of having them < 1314605468 969365 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not so much "you" as mathematicians < 1314605484 521665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn < 1314605571 787293 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, can you elaborate? < 1314605625 251711 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314605664 320998 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1314605849 994142 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, i was trying to define projectin < 1314605853 145712 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^projection < 1314605859 398150 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as.. < 1314605865 704786 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i said.. you're lazy < 1314605894 617299 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was projecting, it means, deep down i believe i am lazy, and so i am saying you are the lazy one < 1314606266 656043 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i understand projection < 1314606276 686920 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of work are you doing? < 1314606290 859266 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand you are not working as a mathematician < 1314606536 866088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the manual. Declarations of structure types in BLISS are extremely versatile; they can even contain arbitrary program code. They can have access parameters and declaration parameters. You can optionally have field names, but those are also very generalized. < 1314606712 595163 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a lot of compile-time functions which can be used to write macros. These macros are far more powerful than C macros; I think they are more like TeX macros. < 1314606828 706773 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My job is to occupy my bedroom. Loading the dishwasher. Putting groceries away sometimes. Chat in IRC. < 1314606858 635492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job < 1314607165 894347 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to challenge any obstacles that obstruct me from ... and at this point it gets murky < 1314607245 418190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rude of cheater not to thank you for your in-depth answer :{ < 1314607334 737153 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that obstruct me from (living/forging my mind for myself and humanity/sharpening my mind/doing what I must do in life/making my dead father proud) < 1314607340 980604 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc etc < 1314607353 122221 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1314607776 707405 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is because that focusing in a world full of distractions is so difficult that it is good. < 1314607795 67032 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. A lot can be learned in the space of one day where attention is focused, you know. < 1314607805 468736 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :A great deal indeed. < 1314607839 332157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1314607841 580997 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infact, one can learn so much in the space of a day as to brag about it for a month. < 1314607876 621496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you do < 1314607882 191682 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1314607890 741692 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bragging about learning things? < 1314607892 889058 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this what you do < 1314607898 46411 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont learn things < 1314607905 763038 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you brag < 1314607908 575790 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i brag because i don't learn things < 1314607913 314403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1314607936 884048 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should like to think (laughs to myself) that if i learned something substantially useful that i would actually apply it < 1314607952 990235 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... yeah i am the foolish bragging sort < 1314607956 940070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: +!>@./~#! < 1314607979 540056 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that even learned mathematicians have their off days, down time.. < 1314607998 16327 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy learning peaks and then plateaus < 1314608037 819973 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they have enough that it comes time to balance theory with practice < 1314608252 96403 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i have an aversion to learning in the same way that evincar is conditioned to need to escape when he hears the noise of someone crunching < 1314608323 366325 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1314608347 677378 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmmmm < 1314608945 175805 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this woman.. would send me email after email of porn images in order to condition me to associate her with pornography < 1314609043 156966 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is wrong as elliott explained to tar all women with the same brush.. but that is an example of the madness i attracted into my online life < 1314609097 329448 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this even happen < 1314609104 81602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: she might have been a spambot < 1314609138 991928 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no she just cut and pasted the images from websites into the email somehow < 1314609142 637175 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this have anything to do with that yahoo chat thing you were talking about < 1314609149 439621 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago < 1314609151 757687 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course.. i met her in yahoo < 1314609154 868192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how it didn't do you any good < 1314609167 847684 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that may have been all you said < 1314609203 685292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure she wasn't a spambot < 1314609221 524149 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not completely evil... but basically i bit off more than i could chew < 1314609265 80299 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh isn't it great this girl likes porn and likes sending me porn" he thinks to himself. no she was a demonic woman. hahahaha. < 1314609276 912996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1314609375 928495 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its my own fault for having such twisted perversions < 1314610975 278033 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314611053 447592 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314611407 17543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I like to eat people. < 1314611409 540477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night. < 1314611868 458913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1314612134 978790 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314612311 406454 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1314612706 399152 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314617150 434099 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1314617356 14689 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1314617388 903567 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1314617654 971732 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1314617917 813832 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314618598 351346 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1314619347 27129 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5 < 1314620039 436821 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314620059 730993 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314621193 402514 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :W3 validator seems to be giving me internally-inconsistent errors >_> < 1314621199 548730 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Element source not allowed as child of element audio in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) < 1314621204 512158 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then: If the element does not have a src attribute: one or more source elements, then zero or more track elements, then transparent, but with no media element descendants. < 1314621211 896646 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, it doesn't have a src attribute, so that's clearly OK. < 1314623097 409344 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember I told you about arranging a course on esoteric programming languages? We're arranging an "evening school" (peer meeting) first. See https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet < 1314623166 3164 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi TOPIC #esoteric :Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011 | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1314623175 903289 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi TOPIC #esoteric :Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1314624176 57967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1314624201 241307 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ain't it, though :) < 1314624429 96361 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"esoteeriset ohjelmointikielet" < 1314624433 415125 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish is such a beautiful language. < 1314624577 994886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey, if we talked in Finnish then you'd have no problem deciphering my keyboard-mashings < 1314624585 343661 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1314624710 580290 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mika tama on? se on bussi < 1314624818 396760 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :onko tosiaan? < 1314624860 81024 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somehow proud to have an esoteric mother's tongue < 1314624899 659793 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mother tongue < 1314625021 602806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not convinced Finnish isn't a hilarious fabrication < 1314625715 782710 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1314625982 111439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314625992 495625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1314625998 695895 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but it is < 1314626010 180913 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the same feeling about German < 1314626055 909076 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language that works so, must be someone's quirk < 1314626128 714405 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314627415 400771 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1314627658 60230 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1314627895 613441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1314628031 666554 :CakeProphet!~adam@h42.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314628031 775116 :CakeProphet!~adam@h42.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1314628031 775272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1314628558 550552 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1314628858 271701 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1314628908 121123 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1314629462 896178 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314629463 8053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314630347 594160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314630613 949460 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1314630680 568687 :derrik!~xix@62.65.215.209.cable.starman.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1314630886 889413 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone. < 1314630886 961740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1314630897 454317 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a lovely surprise, lambdabot. < 1314630910 632037 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That weirdo derrik keeps sending Phantom_Hoover messages. < 1314630948 887265 :derrik!~xix@62.65.215.209.cable.starman.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric : /msg elliott_ :p < 1314630975 550405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1314630987 747476 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell derrik Stop sending me messages, you sick bastard. < 1314630987 819645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1314631260 457702 :derrik!~xix@62.65.215.209.cable.starman.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1314631534 152018 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314631619 501901 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm just a sick, sick bastard. Just one sandwich short of a picnic basket. < 1314631670 332303 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314631707 768855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, are you Deewiant? < 1314631727 973417 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`findquote deewiant < 1314631731 932167 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: findquote: not found < 1314631733 560392 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1314631966 348307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes deewiant < 1314631968 987984 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22811 < 1314633187 422670 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314633457 917370 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-4.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1314633587 293651 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314633665 238502 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1314634196 765275 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so i have this idea < 1314634232 258653 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA: Ideas Destined for Esolang Arena < 1314634232 330537 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.26 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314634239 638511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1314634260 798353 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so i have this idea < 1314634266 875813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1314634269 511453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1314634287 172760 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a game engine idea basically.. one i've been cooking for a while < 1314634299 548903 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. it is gradually making more sense over time < 1314634306 893512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1314634307 771492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it 2D. < 1314634328 892683 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The essence of the idea is 3d gameplay displayed in 2d. < 1314634359 253912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: dwarf fortress does that < 1314634368 76111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean literally every 3D game ever. < 1314634371 655057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, also nethack and all other roguelikes, but that's rather more limited < 1314634378 223285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well I assumed it's something more nuanced than that : < 1314634378 889009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1314634380 972209 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well yes and no.... < 1314634382 513387 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1314634384 969149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: but go on, is it more interesting than just a cross-section view? < 1314634388 924529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what DF does) < 1314634389 175499 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in the literal sense < 1314634393 937277 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1314634397 314172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it was designed as a two-dee game first) < 1314634407 654589 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in the sense that every 3d game is a 2d projection < 1314634416 654295 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1314634460 769480 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmmm < 1314634462 737305 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1314634464 569871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I realised that there are a few 3D games which don't just project to 2D, but they're like 0.1% of games, so it's not a huge deal. < 1314634503 824900 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the key to the idea is that it is to look like a 2d game, and yet play like a 3d game. < 1314634531 847529 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:-) < 1314634538 763552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on, then < 1314634542 420769 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1314634548 616079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you mean like every 3D game ever? < 1314634555 481390 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1314634560 152739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how do you define 3D in the first place? < 1314634562 568774 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't an exact idea < 1314634572 670432 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom.. 3 dimensional vertices < 1314634576 114380 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x][y][z] < 1314634582 36364 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1314634587 79366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty vague. < 1314634590 976788 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1314634617 774282 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the term for a 3d rectangle? is that a prism? < 1314634621 956899 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rectangular prism? < 1314634625 235107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cuboid? < 1314634678 229938 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a umm.. book < 1314634686 139134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cuboid. < 1314634689 526644 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1314634732 49939 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so my temporary definition is that 3d gameplay means that collision detection happens between cuboid primitives or spheres < 1314634750 220434 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps finite 3d planes < 1314634770 418385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't apply to anything polygon-based, does it? < 1314634810 150093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends. < 1314634813 150320 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few polygon-based games might be like that ^^; < 1314634830 763933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oolite, at least, does collision detection on cuboids. < 1314634853 955605 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to read up what oolite is < 1314634864 884356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play DF instead it's better and also obviously comparable. < 1314634870 989690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open-source Elite remake/ < 1314634884 484702 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... i am working on the assumption that cuboid collision detection is very common in 3d < 1314634898 747974 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION winces.
< 1314634909 216884 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if not... then spheres < 1314634915 26634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DFDFDFDFDFDFDFDF, you should play DF. < 1314634966 925324 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so a cuboid and a sphere are both defined in terms of 3d vertices. < 1314634980 980830 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a Dorf Fartruss < 1314634990 819377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: will you play DF if I ask real nicely. < 1314634999 653465 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, in older games bounding boxes would be cuboids or upright cylinders or spheres. < 1314635023 995315 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays a lot of models also have complicated meshes for collision < 1314635056 256457 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume here that spheres or cuboids also serve as a kind of preliminary bounds checking < 1314635072 653653 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a great urge to not go to class today < 1314635075 195157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just play DF. < 1314635089 624356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: So if I make a three-dimensional game and it doesn't do collision detection is it not three dimensional? < 1314635091 22252 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: can't you transform your classroom into a dwarf fortress? < 1314635092 773296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A good urge. < 1314635104 707957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1314635120 966244 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am almost certain I will have no reason to go to any of my classes other than, uh, learning. < 1314635125 792803 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fartress < 1314635133 82203 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :she who farts dwarven. < 1314635148 802696 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.*/Dorf Fartruss/ < 1314635159 52436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Then clirth. < 1314635163 133246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Did I get my -rth form right?) < 1314635178 554545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should be "Then go-clirth.", which would be stopping going to the class. < 1314635178 721153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...I < 1314635185 347641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not allowed to use -irth < 1314635188 84490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a response from me. < 1314635188 666834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it'd just be girth. < 1314635194 74550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, duh. < 1314635197 127852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Girth. < 1314635199 381506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, complainirth. < 1314635202 636606 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an interesting counter example is that a 2d rogue-like(i use this slang as if i ever played one) can be implemented with 3d graphics, polygons, procedural textures, geometry shaders, < 1314635210 559074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That still kind of implies you go and then stop, though, but I guess CakeProphet did go in the past, so. < 1314635216 298730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :girthhub < 1314635222 783227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You should play DF it is great. < 1314635234 349043 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :githubirth? < 1314635245 97175 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew a guy who was working on a 3d ultima frontend of some kind once < 1314635249 38743 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno which ultima < 1314635265 492054 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chess variant no doubt. < 1314635301 885763 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically anything made of electrons is 11 dimensional isn't it? < 1314635305 386865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think itidus20 wants to play DF. :( < 1314635309 375284 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1314635315 640884 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is sad face. :( < 1314635338 170619 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna talk more about this though < 1314635367 79211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ಥ_ಥ < 1314635372 598746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, grievirth. < 1314635381 36115 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott> itidus20: So if I make a three-dimensional game and it doesn't do collision detection is it not three dimensional? -- good question < 1314635402 497865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But itidus20 considirthed playing DF, if he ever considered it in the first place. < 1314635433 739689 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1314635455 385091 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am kind of confused as to how the cross-section works. < 1314635463 950417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What cross-section? < 1314635465 255455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in open places outside. < 1314635467 232484 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF. < 1314635490 920036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it displays dots with the colour of the stuff below if it's one level down, or blue crosshatch otherwise. < 1314635510 994524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1314635521 310353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to move down a level outside you just walk flatly across the ground right? < 1314635530 40264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1314635534 774102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't move. < 1314635536 785676 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is a tough question < 1314635542 347035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You" are an omnipotent camera. < 1314635547 326976 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your dorfs < 1314635555 560496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can handle slopes, yes. < 1314635559 716510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1314635568 365714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mechanism is irrelevant to you; maybe they crawl. < 1314635595 659958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be if I intend for them to be able to reach a specific location and they cannot for whatever reason. < 1314635617 106308 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought about using color luminance as an indicator of depth with an orthographic projection. < 1314635637 266032 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(naturally i am not the only one >.<;) < 1314635673 31510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay so the giant blue spots are cliffs. < 1314635681 673688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The mechanism is irrelevant to you; maybe they crawl. < 1314635689 699234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually have to build a slope downward I realize now... I could have just dug into the mountain south of me < 1314635691 50228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. < 1314635700 585479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should no DF simulates that in painfully exact detail. < 1314635703 723329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1314635716 212815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As any fule no. < 1314635730 762412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so channel = dig a big pit thing. < 1314635732 739605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well OK but I mean, it doesn't matter whether it's just by normal walking or by ascend-walking or anything. < 1314635748 172878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Mine = Mine the actual block. Channel = Mine the floor. < 1314635756 968950 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oky < 1314635759 636386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channel creates a room as if you mined it out on the level below. < 1314635770 658409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as of df2010. < 1314635773 451111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're effectively removing the floor, and the block below it.) < 1314635775 324719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Huh? < 1314635782 919555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes ramps on the level below now, which need to be removed. < 1314635785 713806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's exactly how it worked in Handlekindled; see: below my bedroom. < 1314635787 219997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well yeah. < 1314635791 440480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still the essential same thing. < 1314635795 76618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just with a side-effect. < 1314635796 743397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1314635800 21930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never removed the ramps.
< 1314635814 512168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, keep them if you just want a way down to the next level. < 1314635817 510225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What are you actually trying to channel? < 1314635828 885131 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing I'm referring to my originate channel in front of my entryway < 1314635834 846982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm assuming he's using the fortress quickstart guide. < 1314635835 12895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the guide recommends. < 1314635839 58853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1314635840 183459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1314635847 838130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAYS MUST GET READY FOR CLASSES. < 1314635848 172186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which advises you to channel a 3x3 pit and dig into it if there isn't a convenient cliff. < 1314635859 108209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, but hasn't CakeProphet already got a fortress up. < 1314635868 364207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, one with no workshops or anything, but. < 1314635871 51268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out there was a convenient cliff I'm just bad at imagining ASCII cross-sectional textmaps as 3D space < 1314635883 388300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: Blackness is solid rock. < 1314635889 363004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I got that. < 1314635897 569504 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now anyways < 1314635945 740101 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :advantages to 2d graphics: 1)aesthetically pleasing. 2)easy to judge distances. 3)computationally cheap. 4)my girl. my girl. where will you go? i'm going where the cool wind blows. < 1314635959 466084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always important, is 4. < 1314635981 802292 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, leadbelly is god. < 1314635993 630563 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know them.. im listening to a nirvana cover < 1314635996 607233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, just this really cool blues musician guy. < 1314636002 280691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely berylliumbelly? < 1314636005 822547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: of course you are because no one knows anything about old blues artists. < 1314636013 159731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except CakeProphet. < 1314636022 887600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake Prophet would be a really good name for an old blues artist. < 1314636023 960522 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he announces at the start of the song that he was offered leadbelly's guitar for $500,000 < 1314636041 564944 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a very good guitar. < 1314636104 3546 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're passing the basket. i even asked david geffin personally if he'd buy it for me" < 1314636139 464057 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1314636160 275568 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know which discography to share next then < 1314636783 195710 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1314636808 44018 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :advantages to 2d graphics: 1)aesthetically pleasing. 2)easy to judge distances. 3)computationally cheap. < 1314636842 99156 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra detail on '2' one reason for pursuing stereoscopic 3d is to make it easier to judge distances in games and such things < 1314636878 479122 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's simply difficult < 1314636936 892732 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more details on '1' i will present 2 animated scenes.. and those who are bored enough to look can see which looks best :D < 1314636946 283157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think three-dee worlds are computationally cheap just because they're rendered two-dimensionally, you _need_ to play DF. < 1314636999 7446 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, DF is not renowned for its intensive graphical strain. < 1314637024 182949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, but if DF was rendered with actual three-dee in OpenGL it's not like the system requirements would skyrocket. < 1314637038 312420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Heck, it uses OpenGL already to do the twodee.) < 1314637056 607447 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the contender representing 2d art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaIliI0gc1I < 1314637137 567909 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is definitely a biased comparison .. sighs.. but 3d example is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2gPZRsz0Q < 1314637146 546118 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bias really isnt fair < 1314637344 853152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1314637411 868960 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose gollum from lord of the rings would be a better contender for 3d < 1314637844 535117 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. the contrasting side of things is < 1314637931 574458 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d offers richer gameplay... for example.. movement in 26 general directions instead of 8 < 1314637990 912014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :play df, df has movement in a nearly infinite amount of directions (because it is like being a hundred characters at once) (except you can ALSO count all the menu things and designations as moves!!!!!!!) < 1314638083 622077 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a curious note is that some games such as ninja turtles arcade game have 3 dimensions, while some games like wolfenstein 3d have 2 dimensions < 1314638119 318282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1314638125 259127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1314638132 270025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: will monetary bribes make you play df < 1314638137 590382 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1314638141 270611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big < 1314638144 726554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :name your price < 1314638171 554916 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets start off to the tune of 1,000,000 euros so we have room to move < 1314638178 240842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. how about ten euros < 1314638214 794848 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you are clearly quite taken with df < 1314638222 187637 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is good < 1314638275 137823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have been taken with df for weeks (where taken means playing it) < 1314638284 270789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everyone has been admiring df since it started existing ever) < 1314638306 437027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has been ecstatic lately. He admired a fine DF lately. < 1314638327 600942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is it with dwarves and, like, admiring doors. < 1314638336 259599 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what i am talking about is not really common, i have spent some time comparing and contrasting 2d and 3d < 1314638351 857831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a *fine* door. < 1314638363 970923 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hard to really express "2d graphics with 3d gameplay" < 1314638374 194298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are there even non-fine doors. < 1314638375 91070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens with the smoothest of swings. < 1314638380 719254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dorfs admired shit in my fortress of crap. < 1314638386 42027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how hard that is with a door made of rock? < 1314638393 229758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I don't mean they admired faeces in a fortress made out of faeces. < 1314638397 474470 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm.. perhaps i should tell you about a chapter from my childhood. < 1314638397 640322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that does give me my next megaproject. < 1314638408 111103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on, you don't affect how your masons make stuff, which is why they can make nice things. < 1314638419 74552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, yesyesyes STORY STORY STORY < 1314638421 461584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Woodcrafter actually. < 1314638425 813109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship story. < 1314638425 975317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that good a one, I don't think either. < 1314638428 458761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ELF < 1314638434 974422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um excuse me there was an AQUIFER < 1314638437 836008 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok i had several artistic visions growing up. < 1314638440 16499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also LOTS OF TREES _BUT_ < 1314638444 381319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had to get it all from the REALLY COLD OUTSIDE < 1314638449 732839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE WERE HONEY BADGERS AND SNOWSTORMS < 1314638462 260481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, you never even _saw_ the aquifer on that map. < 1314638469 586532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ran out of food because you're an idiot. < 1314638481 609034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody has technically died yet. < 1314638521 642650 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :One vision I had was when i had some paper folded up like a book or whatever... I started to wonder, is there a way I can fold/cut/turn this paper to make it less linear.. to make it more like an interactive fiction < 1314638551 182367 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if my brain was blasting the paper with matrices and the paper was not ready to yield < 1314638575 861192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, consider that you may have superpowers. < 1314638581 596191 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1314638586 953708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rate this hypothesis as: plausible. < 1314638602 684591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 is......... THE MATRIXINATOR < 1314638636 44781 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if my brain had an itching that there was more ways the paper could fold than i could imagine < 1314638662 707971 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like back then my idea of interactive fiction was "choose your own adventure" books < 1314638672 293035 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where at the bottom of the page you branched via page numbers < 1314638684 583136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, also, have you considered trying origami. < 1314638688 111577 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the book had already demonstrated a capacity at branching < 1314638732 741565 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe because when growing up we had this kids book which had paper pockets in it you could sorta stick things < 1314638742 97215 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably all these things played on my mind < 1314638779 131010 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. the problem with a book of course is that you can't erase the pages < 1314638810 882635 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. it is ROM... vs RAM < 1314638848 880939 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. essentially a book is a ROM.. and a few operations are available < 1314638875 930821 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jump to the next page. Jump to the previous page. Jump to page N. < 1314638894 933534 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even had conditional jumps < 1314638937 801169 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (you choose option 1) jump to page A; if (you choose option 2) jump to page B; < 1314638952 895141 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some pages had a HALT instruction < 1314639096 640142 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that was one idea.. pondering about the magic of book computation. < 1314639107 142540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bookputation. < 1314639121 312597 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second idea was more relevant. i had a decent collction of lego which was donated by a parents friend. < 1314639155 927252 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day, while playing with these legos, i got this dream of a giant tower built out of lego bricks which stretched from hte ground to the ceiling < 1314639176 765831 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would basically be 2ft square < 1314639210 442782 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever i would go to a toystore growing up i would have my eyes out for lego blocks, secretly having the ambition to build it < 1314639230 590445 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never found any lego compatible bricks or ones cheap enough etc < 1314639256 961974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The saddest story. < 1314639261 396816 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually about the time i had a 486 i started considering the possibility of creating my own 3d software. < 1314639288 420498 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a book about turbo pascal 6 system programming i started reading about segmented memory addressing :-s < 1314639289 262464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, behold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEFPhXl3QQY and be happy. < 1314639299 436467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, segments. < 1314639301 416941 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms.
< 1314639305 372169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know them only as an ancient horror. < 1314639313 329058 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :16bits -> 20 bits < 1314639319 899228 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... nothing came of that. < 1314639352 621155 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ill watch video < 1314639403 873528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: will you play DF. < 1314639454 778777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody likes my unsafe hackery in #haskell. /sniff < 1314639477 430404 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not today < 1314639503 382993 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experiment at lego stopmotion can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzMEQlK1EBA < 1314639608 520179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Here, you appreciate my hack: http://hpaste.org/50760 < 1314639737 39670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that printing IO Strings? < 1314639751 20855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1314639757 106261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHAT < 1314639762 456213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK YOU HAVE INSUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE TO APPRECIATE MY GENIUS SORRY < 1314639773 441645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A SADLY COMMON OCCURRENCE IN MY LIFE < 1314639802 731770 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that what i felt when sitting in my family room floor with a rug full of legos looking into the corner and imagining a tower, is what you feel when you play minecraft < 1314639819 746066 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe. < 1314639840 688682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now make it work without --interactive ;-) < 1314639862 916332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well that's the thing, I was running main from within GHCi < 1314639891 930249 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another of these childhood artistic visions was that i had this idea of carving a car out of wood... but not just a solid block car with the illusion of an interior < 1314639892 938184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> do{ print "Hello, world!"; withInstance litD $ print "Hello, world!" } < 1314639893 61219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!" < 1314639893 227630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!" < 1314639893 299741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> print "Hello, world!" < 1314639893 299910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!" < 1314639893 926490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> withInstance litD $ print "Hello, world!" < 1314639897 976121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1314639900 132450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, I broke monads < 1314639924 148800 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a means to carve out the interior of a block of wood < 1314639941 10342 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow.. i felt a taste of mathematical magic in this primitive idea < 1314639945 888184 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a child getting about < 1314639975 96810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess GHC makes unreasonable assumptions like only one instance per type :) < 1314639982 516312 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was somehow asking too much to carve the interior of a car out of wood < 1314640006 714247 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :again.. computing provided the means to do it virtually.. again.. i never bothered :-s < 1314640047 248308 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i thought slotcars were very very cool... < 1314640111 122924 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the natural progression of the slotcar to me was the ability to change lanes. i still think it is a problem that needs to be solved < 1314640128 134028 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have something like the video game daytona usa except with slotcars < 1314640244 43523 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this tower.. it may have been inspired by the many towers of final fantasy 6 < 1314640293 470105 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps star wars bases < 1314640562 234995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314640608 966257 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres this george lucasy way of exploring a space as seen in thx 1138 and the opening of starwars 4 < 1314640625 355660 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think you really feel it much.. its very schizophrenic < 1314640680 271824 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it for granted, but it is as if his cameras are haunted by phillip k dick < 1314640690 586752 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or franz kafka < 1314640710 55784 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1314641088 176741 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1314641093 592631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Aha! < 1314641096 741056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO () < 1314641096 908354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = a >> b < 1314641096 991663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = print "Hello, world!" < 1314641097 63590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b = withInstance litD $ print "Hello, world!" < 1314641098 147617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This works. < 1314641101 220610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not in a where clause though. < 1314641131 210681 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very robust now is it :-) < 1314641179 829065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm... not really sure what I can do about it; I suspect GHC has an instance cache type dealie that kicks in at the top-level declaration scope for whatever reason. < 1314642553 588464 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1314644057 234382 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i just finished the video series < 1314644071 218964 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ended in tragedy. < 1314644082 902281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noöne would buy the house so they unbuilt it. < 1314644120 446715 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first thought is that what they need to do in future is to design a brick which is some degree more difficult to pull apart than it is to put together < 1314644138 207505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I would buy it. < 1314644156 137770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this is related to the fact that you don't have enough money to. < 1314644173 758800 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the real appeal of minecraft isn't it < 1314644176 143604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Face it, I would spend money in the best way possible if I had it. < 1314644187 493360 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. perhaps df also < 1314644204 310592 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :except he did it in real life < 1314644207 875445 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lego voxels < 1314644208 959792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be the appeal of MC but probably not DF. < 1314644216 47089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF isn't really about building something aesthetically appealing. < 1314644220 170755 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just mc < 1314644223 718552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is, but not aesthetically as far as visuals go, unless you're into that thing. < 1314644225 251102 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mc is awesome < 1314644239 986663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's wait for the hilarious reveal where coppro is expanding mc to mean something different to the rest of us < 1314644245 214986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oOPS I RUINED IT < 1314644254 946433 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1314644257 89884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manilla cream? < 1314644259 901636 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to repeat, my first thought is that what they need to do in future (for a real life minecraft) is to design a brick which is some degree more difficult to pull apart than it is to put together.. < 1314644269 533130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masturbation Club < 1314644274 773383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mappers... Castration-arena? < 1314644282 839240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mreally Clamepeople. < 1314644285 193651 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: math and computer < 1314644297 167078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the stupidest expansion of any acronym ever < 1314644299 719581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1314644334 231153 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC: the Math and Computer building at UW < 1314644355 521519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys have them in the same building? < 1314644365 86780 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Computer Science is part of the Math faculty < 1314644397 338864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd approve if I didn't suspect that they don't just mean the mathsy bits of CS. < 1314644403 83134 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a garden of eden would be complete with lego bricks < 1314644416 781336 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: regrettably so < 1314644421 33000 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exploding zombie types < 1314644463 784258 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the singular "computer" is not a typo) < 1314644467 726124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the serpent came unto Eve and said, approach that green frowny thing, for ye shall not be harmed. < 1314644482 23278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers science? < 1314644491 884792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surgeons general. < 1314644494 619845 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. It got its name back when there was A Computer. < 1314644508 64822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The building housed Math, and the computer. < 1314644514 522232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]the Math < 1314644517 185558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was A Math then, too < 1314644530 36572 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is an acceptable abbreviation for mathematics < 1314644546 70308 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Science has nothing to do with computers. < 1314644553 958305 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore calling it "computers science" is nonsense. < 1314644563 326321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you know that any sturgeons caught in British waters have to be given to the Queen, and as such a group of them is referred to as a Royal College of Sturgeons? < 1314644587 881221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote poultry < 1314644589 813027 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :219) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! \ 327) Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1314644590 30042 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[citation needed] < 1314644603 747304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't believe it, but I will henceforth act as if I did for the betterment of humanity < 1314644607 96452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for enriching my life. < 1314644619 861159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Computer Science has nothing to do with computers. < 1314644620 28672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Therefore calling it "computers science" is nonsense. < 1314644621 754508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, courtesy of J.B.S. Haldane. < 1314644628 790762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No more nonsense than calling it computer science < 1314644641 471817 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it should be computational science or (my favorite) informatics. < 1314644648 309599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Computing theory. < 1314644653 957241 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1314644654 43040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't a science. < 1314644656 943650 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But that's a subfield of computer science. < 1314644661 128373 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It /is/ a science. < 1314644671 53540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, theory of computation is a field of CS. < 1314644683 796289 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is a field of mathematics < 1314644691 568470 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have reversed your "of" to form a synonym X_X < 1314644694 182489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: CS is a branch of mathematics. < 1314644694 593372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no it's not. < 1314644703 581766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you use the scientific method? < 1314644704 335489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is not a science; it is a branch of mathematics. That people incorrectly overlap it with SE is irrelevant. < 1314644712 430749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you trying to work out how computers function? < 1314644720 562264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the fact that you have machines that operate kind of like your theoretical ones is irrelevant, since calculators exist too. < 1314644730 480173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculator Science. < 1314644739 49902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is henceforth what I will call mathematics. < 1314644744 206198 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314644746 345693 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The fact that there are layers of abstraction on top of it is the unfortunate (?) fact that engineering and science are merged in this field. < 1314644761 328775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But the fact that I'm an engineer does not reduce the legitimacy of the field as a science. < 1314644775 905714 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That first sentence was weirdly formed :P < 1314644781 753264 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, dude, it's not a science. < 1314644783 363808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1314644797 583722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That just means you do SE and CS; the former happens to be the applied version of the latter. < 1314644800 145634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In science, you have a complex system and try to model it. < 1314644807 799235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engineers sometimes do mathematics, too :P < 1314644808 938324 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We did not invent computation. Computation is an extension of mathematics. You need to take some theory courses. < 1314644817 346135 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Also, math is a science) < 1314644821 658867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: (Also, math is a science) < 1314644821 731019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1314644824 910192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly all credibility is lost < 1314644829 250475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you have no idea what a science is. < 1314644847 426658 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1314644858 904829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[1][2][3][4]" < 1314644872 718400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things mathematics is not about: testable predictions about the universe. < 1314644894 771451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy, this is so retarded. < 1314644911 445404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor makes pedantic point about naming, reacts badly to further pedantic points. < 1314644920 485839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Novelisation, film in a few years. < 1314644937 843314 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that your pedantry is clearly not common opinion. See for example: THE NAME "COMPUTER SCIENCE" >_< < 1314644950 105933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The name you think is nonsense < 1314644964 802125 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said calling it "computerS science" is nonsense. < 1314644972 776488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: No more nonsense than calling it computer science < 1314644972 941527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, it should be computational science or (my favorite) informatics. < 1314644984 723619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, funnily enough, I'm inclined to be prescriptivist with technical terms. < 1314644991 906687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, because it's *the entire point*. < 1314645011 236697 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... lol. You and reading so much into things :P < 1314645044 634528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yeah" =/= agreement < 1314645133 29665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But seriously, there's no way mathematics is a science. < 1314645608 186458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1314645634 523336 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics#Mathematics_as_science bla bla pro and con, neutral viewpoint, [who?] [citation needed] and so on. < 1314645651 387042 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, apparently my Purdue computer is prone to Totally Random Reboot Syndrome. < 1314645653 387785 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall determine the cause of this phenomenon ... with COMPUTER SCIENCE! lolololol*shot* < 1314645694 952849 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bla bla pro and con, neutral viewpoint, [who?] [citation needed] and so on. :P < 1314645704 529272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well let's see, Gauss is using a different definition of science to common English usage and is also a big ol' douche, "Gödel means mathematics isn't logic ergo science" is the most braindead shit ever... and the rest has nothing compelling at all. < 1314645715 802658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that universities sometimes group sciences and mathematics together. < 1314645719 684464 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it cannot be real science if it's lolololol, sheesh. < 1314645725 728365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is compelling if by compelling you mean bulslhit. < 1314645728 30618 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need *MWAHAHAHA* for that < 1314645743 751000 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, sometimes it's a direct copy-paste of some PR material. < 1314645794 59697 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This point is not worth arguing. Like, at all. We're so far into the pedantry rat hole that I can't see light and the air is stale. < 1314645811 446166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but which one of us is using up the hot air fastest? < 1314645820 860199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is tooootally surviving this thing.
< 1314645866 412890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway http://esolangs.org/wiki/DPEMOFKOXM is the best language we've ever had < 1314645920 445492 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme guess; Brainfuck, NOW WITH LETTERS < 1314645930 317140 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a quine. < 1314645939 429300 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page conveniently includes its own interpreter. < 1314645941 667202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPEMOFKOXM < 1314645959 51658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not a BF derivative, so it is significantly above angry. < 1314645974 115555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPEMOFKOXM < 1314645994 749573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there was a brain guy giving today's keynote speech. This Mitchell guy -> http://www.ccbi.cmu.edu/projects_neurosemantics.html -- and I have to add, "neurosemantics" is the fanciest term evar. < 1314645995 416383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I was about to DPEMOFKOXM out topic, but we have something actually serious in it for once! < 1314646002 275104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out/our/ < 1314646009 283500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they do mind-reading, they're like more than half the way to supervillainy there. < 1314646015 654357 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had the same thought X-D < 1314646025 599154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I do wonder how many people here are in Finland and don't have some kind of bitter university-related rivalry going on that prevents them from caring. < 1314646033 526246 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, we can't just go removing the pointers-lambda-calculus comparison. < 1314646034 293249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next they'll just pseudoinverse their matrices and do mind control. (What do you mean that's not how it works?) < 1314646047 247014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please assemble relevant Finland statistics; thanks. < 1314646050 993929 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314646104 806507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think our "rivalry" with the "UH" guys (best abbrv ev.?) is more of a friendly one than a bitter one. < 1314646117 210874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314646119 4930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it _might_ work that way, if the matrix represents the concept -> neuron map < 1314646152 289566 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, they already pseudoinversed it, to make predictions of the neural activations for unseen words. < 1314646166 852230 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sadly the FMRI scanner will not suddenly start to control brains even if you inverse some matrices. < 1314646171 538467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if I hopped on the next plane to Finland and crashed the event. < 1314646174 701973 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (At least I believe it will not. I'm no physicist.) < 1314646179 397963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you ban me? < 1314646188 687913 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a friendly rivalry, the reindeer head in your bed was just for amusement < 1314646234 249352 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well you need to reverse the MRI rays too, duh < 1314646250 378314 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh hey, it says it's co-organized with our student organization too. < 1314646260 389717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So would you... ban me... < 1314646270 738822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm glad that Finland unites for the cause of esolangs. < 1314646301 490983 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even a thing you can crash? I mean, limited to any people? < 1314646327 12930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many Finnish people did you even bring here. < 1314646331 652908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weeeell, I'm an annoying little kid, and I doubt you're meant to enter through the window. < 1314646337 119527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, that guy's the old list administrator. < 1314646339 437515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He found us independently. < 1314646341 495891 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1314646345 643682 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek spiders in the roof. < 1314646350 770035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is? < 1314646359 296312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also if I spend all my time loudly rambling on about Feather's superiority they might get a bit annoyed. < 1314646360 937323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: atehwa, who's organizing that thing. < 1314646366 498243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The person who set the topic. < 1314646370 264596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, yes. < 1314646399 780816 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I really bought anyone else to the channel. (Except maybe ineiros by copy-pasting the best bits to him. Maybe. I don't quite recall.) < 1314646400 362758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys why is it in Finland it should be in Edinburgh. < 1314646412 822623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that as "why is it called Finland it should be Edinburgh". < 1314646420 747420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A renaming which I wholeheartedly support. < 1314646454 96877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so half the population of Finland ended up here of their own accord? < 1314646471 960334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, there are more Finns in here than there are Finns. < 1314646474 479452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been over this many times. < 1314646475 872595 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314646481 608823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. < 1314646485 621338 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eviction complete. < 1314646496 140963 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time when i was supposed to be studying at school i took out a book about finnish < 1314646496 445674 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, esoteric languages convert people into Finns (if you're not careful). < 1314646507 573675 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point -> itidus20. < 1314646510 652868 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't learn much. i learned about the mysterious double-v < 1314646534 327874 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i memorized two sentences "mika tama on? se on bussi." < 1314646541 49736 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha......... < 1314646543 961016 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In particular I think I first "met" Deewiant here, even though I think he works in the same place. < 1314646544 165364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they will convert people into Finns < 1314646569 881475 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.... whenever i see a photo of finland it's always some wonderful wooden bridge going by a lake and trees < 1314646573 17396 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And you're correct. < 1314646576 827227 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :... haha.... < 1314646579 904407 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ceiling < 1314646596 495155 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: FIGHT IT < 1314646602 618374 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: FIIIIIIIIGHT < 1314646604 898534 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but theres one more thing < 1314646640 396079 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieva's polka < 1314646647 584630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : also.... whenever i see a photo of finland it's always some wonderful wooden bridge going by a lake and trees < 1314646653 500800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fizzie: confirm/deny description of Finland. < 1314646664 361445 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirm < 1314646665 220418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually not Deewiant he's never fun about these things. < 1314646671 276045 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confirm < 1314646673 688224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1314646675 390649 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late < 1314646679 258257 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway is also entirely waterfalls < 1314646680 886202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it really is like that < 1314646683 392711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Huh." < 1314646684 547121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D&D game, I took one book from some office (probably the office of some evil potion maker). I have a lot of plan the use of this book in the game. (It can be eventually returned, if he survives and his office survives) < 1314646694 289787 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieva's polka .. i'll link to the youtube < 1314646701 97218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've all heard Ieva's Polka. < 1314646701 617128 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: FALSE. we also have mountains for them to run from. < 1314646721 16697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fjords for them to run into. < 1314646721 852239 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is part of "entirely waterfalls" < 1314646728 927312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well ok then < 1314646734 726384 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :try and close this song before the end of hte video.. go ahead and try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygdAiDxKfI < 1314646745 568636 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fjords don't count because they're bodies of water. < 1314646750 819629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: ok i will try < 1314646753 368869 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there's anything wrong with the fjords < 1314646758 598851 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are beautiful :D < 1314646761 730262 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but but they have infinite length < 1314646762 692038 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have won awards, I'm told < 1314646763 571383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed at ten seconds in < 1314646764 668386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im magician < 1314646766 967910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fjords are just a crappy imitation of firths. < 1314646767 966259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fractal facts 101) < 1314646783 949827 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fractal fjords? < 1314646785 902173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cakeprophet doubted that coastlines were fractal earlier, the uncultured swine < 1314646811 24590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So how's that derived as an irth-form? < 1314646831 762512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where the water stops going in /forwards/ because it's a body? < 1314646832 747624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's when you stop going forth. < 1314646843 735192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1314646847 554160 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *GASP* < 1314646916 650874 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, go forth to the firth, forsooth. < 1314646961 623595 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314646983 687423 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk JOIN :#esoteric < 1314646995 243291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zachk < 1314646999 976871 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1314647015 724958 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i was innocently wandering around second life and someone approached twirling a leek which was emitting the sound of ieva's polka < 1314647040 266488 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only much later that i discovered the song outside of secondlife < 1314647040 338331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zachk: this is a channel about esoteric programming languages. sometimes. < 1314647040 410463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hide the goats < 1314647052 135910 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods his head
< 1314647085 966580 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hide the Finns! < 1314647105 98085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're stealth finns < 1314647142 625927 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good. < 1314647145 80812 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say < 1314647148 1714 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sealthinns. < 1314647165 69841 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noone hates the finns :P < 1314647172 792475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Russians do. < 1314647176 487384 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you Noone! < 1314647181 199495 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why you gotta be racist! < 1314647195 623748 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : screw finns they suck < 1314647196 545154 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know finland was a race < 1314647208 339763 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedes think finns are weird < 1314647208 411672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1314647221 285969 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the russians do. thats more realistic < 1314647229 808203 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :never say never after all < 1314647233 749 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: "Racist" is commonly used for ethnicities and heritages as well. < 1314647243 830168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is racism a science? < 1314647253 937375 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1314647257 725892 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it? < 1314647258 391970 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets just pretend i didnt say noone hates them < 1314647262 56584 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's an art! < 1314647262 736363 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientific racism comes close < 1314647263 319603 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland is a big race to the bottom < 1314647302 762173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: I would say one of the prominent features of scientific racism is being unscientific crap. < 1314647336 651581 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :that goes for many isms < 1314647348 905870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't make it a science :P < 1314647391 613326 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, if you do lab tests, it is considered a science - if you tend to be materialist < 1314647398 150306 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientific racism is like that < 1314647401 490267 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is difficult to live in a country which was founded by british convicts who arrived 200 years ago and cleansed and assimilated the native tribes.. < 1314647427 663897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik, they don't let them do lab tests any more. < 1314647428 498385 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no meaning in it < 1314647431 169126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: That's a rubbish definition. < 1314647472 912004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314647473 386940 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: give a better one < 1314647486 257873 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok its not as bad as i describe really :D < 1314647508 621941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: A science is a field of research that meets the minimum standard of being better than terrible at meeting the scientific method. < 1314647517 357601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1314647553 704756 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there used to be a time when scientific racism was good enough.. so there < 1314647553 871462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1314647559 783043 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being a racist now < 1314647567 104645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: Whaddya mean by good enough < 1314647579 937224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many computers are there that use LFSR-based PC? < 1314647581 534190 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in better than terrible < 1314647591 768647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that :) < 1314647611 357809 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have said too much and stirred up trouble.. i was going so well up till then < 1314647616 621701 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEAT IS MOODER < 1314647623 581456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: When do you ever stir up trouble ever < 1314647635 833756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NES CIC uses LFSR-based PC. < 1314647662 202163 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what do you mean stir up, no one even commented on it :P < 1314647706 216225 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 is the anti-troll < 1314647709 162213 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am an n-dimensional vector... my life's mission is to orient myself to the correct "direction" < 1314647760 707694 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is basically kidding.
< 1314647832 832447 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A man from the Netherlands is being sued by RealNetworks for linking to a freeware application. The application, RealAlternative, is considered by some to be a competitive product to software from RealNetworks." < 1314647873 865214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the 90s < 1314647877 688621 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have that installed < 1314647883 761157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes then < 1314647925 254624 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1314647942 648426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 TOPIC #esoteric :It is the 90s and there is time for Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1314647943 65273 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes some motherfuckers choose to encode things in real formats < 1314647957 124098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, wow, you know how you hate Ribbons? < 1314647973 548699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ribbons? < 1314647974 813638 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PART #esoteric :"better than terrible" < 1314647986 283192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the MS Word thing? < 1314647988 163920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the interface element? < 1314647992 620081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1314648007 491301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might be coming around to your point of view; here's Microsoft's redesigned Explorer: http://i.imgur.com/pJcH5.png < 1314648013 790607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't so much hate them, I just think they're less efficient than toolbar+menu for no good reason < 1314648016 701626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a masterful trainwreck < 1314648029 307418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, what is taking up all my network pipe? < 1314648030 697569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their intended advantage seems to be discoverability < 1314648059 268416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, is that a crazy waste of screen space as well as requiring extra clicks for some actions < 1314648094 231377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bonus: "Here, they proudly overlay the UI with data from their research into how often various commands are used. They use this to show that “the commands that make up 84% of what users do in Explorer are now in one tab”. But the more important thing is that the remaining 50% of the bar is taken up by buttons that nobody will ever use, ever, even according to Microsoft’s own research. And yet somehow they remain smack bang in the mi < 1314648100 578780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddle of the interface." < 1314648110 172466 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with conlangs such as lojban and esperanto is they cheapen the value of language developing naturally < 1314648120 708234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1314648136 260636 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i worded that bad < 1314648163 421597 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, they lack what the non-constructed languages have in history < 1314648179 949437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see, as far as I can tell, you want to use a toolbar for one-click access to the most commonly used commands, and a menu for two-click access to more rarely used commands < 1314648199 822425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ribbon's equivalent to toolbar+menu where the menu doesn't shut after you use it, it just stays covering the menu until you explicitly get rid of it < 1314648200 844858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you want to use @ for everything, come on < 1314648211 681564 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the age old problem of over-engineering something.. or making something efficient and emotionally-void < 1314648257 256503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we currently don't have any idea on what @'s UI is, so we can talk about the relative merits of menus and ribbons with a clear concience < 1314648274 995241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe _you_ can. < 1314648286 249161 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh... what am I saying? I am saying that i am a natural-language-anarcho-primitivist < 1314648289 544524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one important thing about @'s UI, and it's that it's perfect < 1314648308 924 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps a natural-langage-neo-luddite < 1314648318 489851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, you can say "A is perfect but I don't know what it is; B is imperfect, but better than C" < 1314648340 162141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anarcho-primitivists and neo-luddites, good role models < 1314648344 34624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by good i mean worst < 1314648380 219618 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of applying the idea to technology(which i do sometimes) instead i am applying it to natural languages.. and the advancement of conlangs < 1314648605 269558 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah i heard the unabomber was one < 1314648609 811124 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good sign. < 1314648758 522621 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Quit: bye < 1314648901 930262 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you should take good role models such as mathematicians. ...oh wait... < 1314649356 936025 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey esopeople, what does this do on a 32-bit system (don't check, just guess): int x = 1234567890123L; if (x == 1234567890123L) printf("A\n"); else printf("B\n"); < 1314649385 916057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something wacky because this is C. < 1314649399 370607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's those rules about overflow in intermediate expressions, mayhaps they apply to == too. < 1314649403 734442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinging fizzie the language lawyer. < 1314649425 535036 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm conversion rules... < 1314649431 742031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314649434 444744 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a laywer for C? < 1314649436 273254 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1314649437 830573 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1314649451 867919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: isn't that obvious. < 1314649469 371410 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314649471 226241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _sane_ thing would be A, i think < 1314649479 877795 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :converting to the largest type < 1314649496 986665 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not a C lawyer so i'm not sure < 1314649514 911737 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk JOIN :#esoteric < 1314649554 326599 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1314649558 944090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1314649575 718382 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x has already been truncated < 1314649595 412786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so converting back won't give the original constant < 1314649600 209104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um yes but the native integral type is that too < 1314649603 391759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should overflow then, as well < 1314649618 574024 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume on a 32-bit system you would get some complaints about 1234567890123L, as it doesn't fit in a "long". < 1314649620 704286 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the ==, the x gets promoted to long < 1314649631 321554 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the =, the literal gets truncated < 1314649649 721972 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um won't long be 64-bit on a 32-bit system? i don't know that either :P < 1314649655 177622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1314649657 194533 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming so < 1314649657 692745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :long is generally pointer-size < 1314649670 536161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1314649673 353054 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, small longs < 1314649692 859543 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even a difference between int and long then? < 1314649710 407224 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in value ranges; maybe in conversion rank. < 1314649718 708601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's a difference you could notice, though. < 1314649758 611044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really a C lawyer; it's borderline possible that despite the suffix, integer constants automatically get a "long enough" type. < 1314649774 697250 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my official stance now is "i have no clue" < 1314649825 216222 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's even undefined behavior < 1314649858 750387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it prints B < 1314649862 248015 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The type of an integer constant is the first of the corresponding list in which its value can be represented. < 1314649865 342068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because that's completely unintuitive < 1314649869 92201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list includes 'long long'. < 1314649869 586205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the only reason Gregor would ask. < 1314649874 135817 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is EgoBot 32-bit or 64-bit? < 1314649892 104766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well hmph, if Gregor is relying on long long being sixty four bits then poo to him < 1314649896 982380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a "L" after it, the type is either "long" or "long long", depending on value. < 1314649905 375990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C99 "long long" is guaranteed to be at least that wide. < 1314649910 488344 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1314649914 782471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fair enough < 1314649923 56086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, it says B because mumble long long mumble. < 1314649930 614775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the x gets truncated in assignment, then promoted to 'long long' in the comparison, probably. < 1314649948 775861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1314649949 275715 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1314649958 413322 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something *really* unintuitive in the automatic integer promotions involving signed and unsigned stuff, but I've forgotten what it was. < 1314649963 278956 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int x = 1234567890123L; if (x == 1234567890123L) printf("A\n"); else printf("B\n"); < 1314649967 829279 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1314650007 718265 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%zu\n", sizeof(long)); < 1314650009 611940 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1314650023 329743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :long is irrelevant here < 1314650030 250037 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%zu\n", sizeof(int)); < 1314650032 348217 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1314650032 513129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is thirty-two bit on linux/xeightsix-sixtyfour < 1314650037 633659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the results should be accurate < 1314650045 353645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what do we win? < 1314650047 207852 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%zu\n", sizeof(long long)); < 1314650049 123063 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1314650053 554369 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If L makes it a long long then it doesn't matter whether it's 32 or 64 bit < 1314650070 474674 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably the type of "2147483648" is "long long int" (assuming 32-bit int, long; >32-bit long long), while the type of 0x80000000 is "unsigned int", despite having the same value. < 1314650078 234365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes it does, because "int" matters < 1314650079 648798 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well what matters is that it doesn't fit in an int < 1314650088 203448 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The rules are different for decimal constants vs. octal/hex constants.) < 1314650094 563424 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All current systems I'm aware of have int <= 32-bit < 1314650104 953215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: DING DING DING < 1314650107 110026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING < 1314650108 101598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1314650109 424174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1314650111 936515 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1314650114 792178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING < 1314650116 177103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1314650117 690564 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONG < 1314650118 986704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT WHERE IS THE WIKIPEDIA PAGE < 1314650122 623649 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My point is, both 32 and 64-bit systems. < 1314650135 555463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING < 1314650137 219931 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gregor specified "32-bit system" as though it made a difference < 1314650138 974358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit#Specific_C-language_data_models < 1314650144 324910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Solaris/SPARC64, Unicos < 1314650150 280937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitchez < 1314650183 517278 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what you could call "real 64-bit for men". < 1314650184 741228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Unicos is Cray, and has sixty-four bit shorts. How completely unexpected. < 1314650199 734237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with Cray and weird bit-widths? < 1314650219 241508 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, Unicos. Solaris/SPARC64 doesn't count as "current" :-P < 1314650222 596896 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that at least some of the stuff that Cray makes is completely word-accessible, and they fake CHAR_BIT == 8 with those funky "word + offset" pointers. < 1314650242 516292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe that's just older stuff. < 1314650259 809958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: TBH I hate LLP64 and LP64 < 1314650265 14877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because int is C's Standard Type(tm) < 1314650279 624137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really sucks to waste half of everything unless you write your program atypically, and that doesn't help with libraries < 1314650295 959058 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who write typically write stupidly < 1314650308 732910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep, but have you coded @ yet? < 1314650326 665655 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It don't exist bro < 1314650346 22821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was making a vague point about perfection vs. conventions and compatibility < 1314650391 829073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much of a compatibility argument for using int everywhere, I find < 1314650395 889622 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just don't use enough C libraries < 1314650413 566480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is a lot less typing than unsigned long for loop indexes :-D < 1314650421 70946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah yeah, typedef ulong) < 1314650423 490278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm today's iwc is unexpected. i was guessing they'd choose Me. < 1314650433 656141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how close to the end is it < 1314650450 995107 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 24 strips iirc < 1314650455 248230 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: size_t < 1314650475 84166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And ssize_t for all the values? < 1314650478 300571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brillant < 1314650487 80782 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrdiff_t < 1314650501 346804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssize_t makes me vomit puppy blood. I mean, metaphorically. < 1314650509 240893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe also literally in a sufficiently animal-themed OS. < 1314650526 28456 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do you find yourself needing ptrdiff_t/ssize_t? :-P < 1314650534 517449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssize_t is a nasty hack < 1314650548 38494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Every time I use any function returning ssize_t < 1314650548 940286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/poll.pl < 1314650552 253841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kill a few people when that happens < 1314650557 146171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to get the spirit cleansed < 1314650563 414993 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :29% of people don't wear any form of footwear at home. < 1314650566 496163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaaaaaaaaaaat < 1314650566 766673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, http://esolangs.org/wiki/DPEMOFKOXM < 1314650570 159852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even spam < 1314650571 303988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do not delete < 1314650576 83124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not modify < 1314650580 286129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, protect it, if you can < 1314650587 700908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't categorized correctly < 1314650593 465139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm today's iwc is unexpected. i was guessing they'd choose Me. <-- could be changed. Like "no, that won't do" < 1314650593 961317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, but it is < 1314650603 604854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your error is presuming that any categories could possibly fit it. < 1314650605 473249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway is it confirmed IWC is going to end? < 1314650608 598543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from maybe [[Category:DPEMOFKOXM]] < 1314650612 609614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I expect you to expand it into a full article about something ontopic for Esolang < 1314650624 784616 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314650625 260055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I'm just going to invent an esolang called [[Talk:DPEMOFKOXM]] < 1314650631 733703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be discussed at [[Talk talk:DPEMOFKOXM]] < 1314650640 345108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you will agree this policy is reasonable + sane < 1314650643 485147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 29% of people don't wear any form of footwear at home. <-- that is a lot < 1314650658 510859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And five percent wear shoes. < 1314650740 455333 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but i'm still worried about it, with DMM always complaining about lack of time for stuff... < 1314650749 650209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah... < 1314650763 88704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll binge iwc after its INEVITABLE END < 1314650767 651854 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might very well decide to stop iwc when he hits his milestone < 1314650785 981743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true :( < 1314650793 659426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't wear footwear at home, partly because most of the time I spend at home, I spend in bed < 1314650797 668125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wear it everywhere else < 1314650803 497771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it kind of hard to conceptualise the idea of IWC ending, and that was a very ais523 thought apparently because I almost put a - between sort and of instead of a space < 1314650810 128991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a constant force of nature < 1314650810 703869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in a few extreme circumstances like swimming baths < 1314650816 462824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it relatively hard to imagine IWC starting < 1314650824 684002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually read IWC < 1314650826 732191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone mentioned that on the forum, and DMM said he hoped that wasn't the reason for the poll result < 1314650830 805830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to use indoor-sandals in home during summer, and warmer slippers during winter. < 1314650846 946856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah, I see < 1314650855 53720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spring and autumn are undefined) < 1314650855 301588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find default house temperature warm enough as it is < 1314650917 941346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :socks are the only option; I don't know why I hold this rabid opinion but it's probably for some good tradition-related reason < 1314650918 54704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I live in an old house. It can get quite cold inside even with both fireplaces in use. I mean, in an old house, when it is -27 C outside, it will get a bit colder inside too. < 1314650921 674051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust Phantom_Hoover has the good taste to agree < 1314650938 146626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -27 outside is a little rare in the UK < 1314650952 347669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah < 1314650953 113463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does -27 feel like, i'm not sure i understand temperatures that low < 1314650953 795287 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wear slippers, actually. < 1314650958 720393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those people who is known to open the window even in winter < 1314650963 332364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -8 is about where I start feeling the cold < 1314650971 550827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mentioned that my breath mists indoors in May, right? < 1314650972 500226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is not exactly common here either. But happened a few times during the last winter. < 1314650979 494054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-15 is the coldest I've been out in in just a T-shirt, and got shouted at for that < 1314650984 282354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to be fair, in retrospect it was a mistake < 1314650988 804829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was once on top of a glacier in shorts. < 1314650995 644932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How soft are they; also how many depictions of rabbits do they contain. (These are literally the only important aspects of slippers.) (Also yes I exaggerate my liking of rabbits to please the crowd, shut up.) < 1314650997 865964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, open a freezer. It is -18 C or so iirc? < 1314651002 8179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make it worse < 1314651007 630974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the UK? probably not that cold < 1314651007 895775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stay inside for a while too < 1314651008 541368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: freezers are pretty mild as far as cold goes < 1314651010 432224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are soft but lack rabbits. < 1314651020 559355 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Gregor specified "32-bit system" as though it made a difference // it does make a difference in how the code is compiled, although the result happens to be the same < 1314651034 221184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK fine. (Some slippers are not soft and their prime purpose is to make you step on your own toes and go ow because they are not soft; these slippers are the enemy.) < 1314651039 199311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only because you don't stay inside them. And when you open them the warm air from the room quickly mix with the cold air inside. < 1314651044 635657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see why, all the types involved are the same < 1314651046 777456 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is wearing woolen socks with cotton socks inside. and shorts, my body is weird...
< 1314651057 508843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I guess I'll visit one of you guys' cold countries some time to find out < 1314651075 63195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine it's that bad though, because below a certain temperature my behaviour is constant < 1314651078 243648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you even step on your feet. < 1314651079 860312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well -27 C was like during a week in total during the last two winters. < 1314651086 900329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also most places have warmer summers than the UK. < 1314651087 563049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Freak out and shake wildly and uncontrollably and gibber about death.") < 1314651090 361503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not kidding.) < 1314651101 508976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You step on your feet because the slippers that are not soft are also inevitably too big for some reason. < 1314651104 54576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you're looking for consistent cold, you're better just moving here. < 1314651113 160769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, consider that you are merely a midget. < 1314651113 909656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so yeah not exactly common, but it happens often enough that it isn't a freak event you will never encounter again in your lifetime < 1314651115 540203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can all agree that the ideal form of footwear is whatever the smurfs use. < 1314651122 807736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do they even wear anything or are they just partly white. < 1314651136 444413 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :smurf cartoons = easy to find.. < 1314651138 346975 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1314651147 896260 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :smurf comicbooks = very difficult to track down < 1314651155 15295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Scotland might indeed be superior to England for temperature purposes for me < 1314651191 762093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, I know someone who been in -50 C. He walked from a hotel to a house across the square. He said that his moustache hard frozen hard from the moist in the exhaling air when he reached the other side. < 1314651209 719350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's his fault for having a moustache < 1314651212 304922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully I never experienced that < 1314651216 743342 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have now seen 2 episodes of james may's toy stories.. < 1314651218 877777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is annoyingly warm in the summer even then, though. < 1314651231 257856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is wrong with facial hair? < 1314651231 753845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1314651247 208334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may simply because I wear a jumper in all conditions, though. < 1314651249 347259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Show me a moustache that is not terrible and I'll show you a moustache that doesn't exist. < 1314651253 304077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they will be the same moustache < 1314651257 103594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, handlebar. < 1314651269 573139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, moustache + beard of course. Grown together. < 1314651270 421574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your definition of terrible is inadequate. < 1314651287 618894 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314651288 970962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude. < 1314651291 736472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwait. < 1314651293 427104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1314651297 287354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moustache envy. < 1314651351 984737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a frozen-beard experience in something like -20 already. < 1314651354 951434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually my face seems to want to develop a moustache before any other kind of hair at all, which is really annoying because I look like a prick and can't really do anything about it. < 1314651364 910988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shave? < 1314651382 436706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not a moustache, it's a hint that one day there might be a fledgling moustache attempting to claim this spot :P < 1314651399 819432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could, like, rip the top layer of skin off. < 1314651400 436168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway that is common, I got moustache first too. Took a few years until I got a proper beard. < 1314651416 2683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes OK but this one is a really annoying moustache you don't UNDERSTAND my face is ANTAGONISING ME. < 1314651427 695112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, not enough to grow a full beard. But then, why would I want to look like RMS < 1314651432 992398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh god) < 1314651445 780216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I... think that's the natural pattern of beard growth. < 1314651455 763048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes OK but MY MOUTH STRUCTURE IS ALL WRONG FOR IT OKAY < 1314651478 546886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you will get that too one day, remember. < 1314651489 847001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE DAY PH YOU WILL BE AS OLD AS ME, VORPAL, WISEST IN THE LAND < 1314651502 687259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no I am actually a woman. < 1314651508 664316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I wouldn't say that. I'm probably only second or third ;) < 1314651524 922970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This explains everything! I think! < 1314651529 389896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah, then it will take a couple of more years < 1314651538 386409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, grammar fail there < 1314651550 504047 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal has not seen a woman. < 1314651566 584730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, speaking of beards! Here's a surprise visitor at the Interspeech 2011 opening ceremony: http://www.interspeech2011.org/photos/getimage+ip.php?id=809400295 < 1314651567 496941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe he's only seen prepu— no, I'm not going down that train of thought. < 1314651595 986862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_lady < 1314651605 398493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal has that article bookmarked. < 1314651610 699076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I googled it < 1314651619 23032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal cannot love anything without a beard. < 1314651620 907824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try it yourself, awesome website < 1314651621 240382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Vorpal is a dorf. < 1314651622 415627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is also straight. < 1314651625 443011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He fits the stupidity criterion. < 1314651627 158583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, XD < 1314651630 239658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, female dorfs don't have beards. < 1314651638 641308 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also http://www.interspeech2011.org/photos/gallery.php?gallery=Sunday_28_August_2011 has three other photos of him about 1/4th down the page.) < 1314651640 129442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, his options are extremely limited. < 1314651648 195028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, depends on which fictional setting. < 1314651650 501224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Goblins? < 1314651663 30938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, NOW YOU KNOW WHY I ALWAYS LIKED DISCWORLD ;) < 1314651690 882236 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone link http://gerrycanavan.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/phmf5.jpeg yet < 1314651720 586292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I was considering it. < 1314651733 269673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, what about Riker's beard WHAT NOW < 1314651752 234428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what. < 1314651768 500707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nice < 1314651784 655391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CHECKMATE < 1314651789 314343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNO < 1314651806 506480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I really don't think we need to supply Vorpal his fetish material. < 1314651812 889167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is rated PG OK. < 1314651816 184782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1314651827 911999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, especially after his search for SCSI porn. < 1314651857 549627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scsi porn" gets upsettingly few results. < 1314651882 235433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Goblins? < 1314651887 665925 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do goblins even have beards? < 1314651896 166604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you and Vorpal both, then? < 1314651899 998093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but they sure are ugly. < 1314651902 359113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, yes, what about Riker's beard WHAT NOW <-- that would suit you in a few years < 1314651903 892928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCSI must be one sexy interface standard. < 1314651923 135290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no I will not be objectified by you I am a Strong Female Character. < 1314651926 122521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I literally just conceptualise goblins as Prequel-Gro-Upp, but I'm fine with that. < 1314651930 659385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except stupider. < 1314651941 688920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, especially after his search for SCSI porn. <-- don't forget google image search on PCMIA rule 34 < 1314651946 668462 :zachk!~geisthaus@unaffiliated/zachk PART :#esoteric < 1314651947 581323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(safe search off) < 1314651974 202475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, then it would suit elliott < 1314651992 363508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 34 always struck me as cheating a bit < 1314651995 457229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you looking for a bearded lady taking male and female plugs to a whole new level? < 1314651999 115844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1314652006 80733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, XD < 1314652009 569673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should grow the longest beard ever grown < 1314652010 313342 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I really don't think we need to supply Vorpal his fetish material. <-- sorry i didn't see that part as i was busy trying to find the picture, and then to find a version which wasn't an unreadable jpeg < 1314652010 651508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 seems a more accurate description of those sort of things < 1314652012 362977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be fun < 1314652017 139434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if i tripped over my own beard < 1314652017 387062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good luck < 1314652021 702081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a corollary/exception to rule 34, "if it doesn't exist it will be made") < 1314652049 753336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: growing a long beard is rather difficult and requires a lot of knowledge of beard mechanics < 1314652053 510601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just need to be biblical about it; rule thirty-four is more of a statement about many worlds < 1314652055 757380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never shave, but my beard naturally stays quite short < 1314652067 57931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that, over time, the world approximates a world in which porn of everything exists < 1314652070 371811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely /because/ I don't shave, apparently < 1314652073 652942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :driven by rule thirty-five < 1314652080 333561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, that's why I think rule 34 is cheating/misleading < 1314652086 455551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway as far as I can tell, there was *no* porn on PCMIA when I checked. Thankfully. < 1314652087 694935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: welcome to religion < 1314652089 69654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: beard mechanics sounds like a good thing to get a phd in < 1314652095 225425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Longest_beard_in_the_world < 1314652098 117789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can this be the longest?? wtf < 1314652100 186464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cartoons have lied to me < 1314652103 905603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps because you can't spell PCMCIA? < 1314652107 525895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought there were relaly people whose beard stretches out in front of them < 1314652111 197828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: / < 1314652118 305781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the beard *is* longer than him. < 1314652123 354650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes but come on. < 1314652123 999471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err I didn't typo it then. I got pictures of PCMCIA cards so :P < 1314652125 923503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean enough to trip on. < 1314652126 449278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no pron < 1314652128 890433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :porn* < 1314652130 336451 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip98-185-253-33.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314652131 510398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah that typo < 1314652148 283195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4488411025_b5aa0b0874.jpg < 1314652157 205180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this is what google thinks constituets PCMCIA porn < 1314652158 114608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover: the reason why I checked this was that I was trying to find something that had no porn made on it. :P < 1314652159 74586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be right < 1314652169 939796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a feeling of divine happiness and I am thankful that God has chosen me for the gift of the longest beard," said Singh, 42. The measurement was presided over by Surrey-Newton MLA Harry S Bains, Surrey RCMP Sgt. Baltej S Dhillon and lawyer Sukhjinder S Grewal. < 1314652175 911577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best blessing i've ever heard of < 1314652183 416313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what length was it? < 1314652194 675810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Referring to Sikhs as 'Singh': the stupidest? < 1314652197 369788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven feet or w/e < 1314652208 689778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like referring to Dutch people as 'van'. < 1314652211 764941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The longest beard ever was grown by Hans Langseth of Norway, whose whiskers stretched an incredible 5.33 m (17' 6) when measured upon his death in Kensett, Iowa, in 1927. The beard was presented to the Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC, in 1967." < 1314652213 735220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.1 meters. Impressive < 1314652217 37541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :measured upon his death < 1314652217 535877 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1314652217 702180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1314652219 613916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1314652225 710720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: props < 1314652227 878268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Labbekak < 1314652228 852048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as noted Dutch musician, Van Morrison. < 1314652232 39163 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodday < 1314652232 204406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about the longest beards. < 1314652237 290077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you don't know who he is you are fortunate.) < 1314652238 771682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and 5.33 m, wow < 1314652241 886385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "what are lambdas" --van < 1314652248 570494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what is lambda < 1314652257 365819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scary, that's what < 1314652258 361205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the cosmological constant. < 1314652272 51881 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i got to this irc through ais523 esolang page < 1314652278 342759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1314652283 945139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, a bit off topic at times < 1314652285 78617 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hes online < 1314652285 823824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: that's one way to get there < 1314652297 898343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks Labbekak sounds norwegian.
< 1314652298 725521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going via the community portal is the usual way, but I'm glad my userpage is doing something useful < 1314652305 192096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you here to discuss esolangs or report spam? < 1314652307 76279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, like... a lot of the time. Though when esolangs come up that is generally discussed. < 1314652309 359673 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its dutch :p < 1314652311 834186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss spam and report esolangs < 1314652312 852264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1314652318 667550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, ah, van. < 1314652322 474734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's actually more fitting of what we do here < 1314652335 208817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it actually is as well < 1314652337 20966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, i like to consider myself a spam connoisseur < 1314652344 355405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are certainly plenty of esolangs to whine about < 1314652347 664641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new esolangs typically get reported as being incredibly bad < 1314652348 575449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/esolangs/bad esolangs/ < 1314652353 231107 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p was just interested in what was going on here < 1314652357 706749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have all the people who make good esolangs stopped? < 1314652367 543088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well go implement feather! < 1314652367 874868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because of all the people who make bad ones? < 1314652368 454269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1314652374 967774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all the good esolangs have been made. < 1314652378 972333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm still waiting on a spec for My Name Is Johny < 1314652384 91143 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are the ideas behind feather < 1314652388 672696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm working on it, I got distracted by Rezzo, which is similar < 1314652390 244378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask < 1314652391 658742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, you don't want to know. < 1314652394 130706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/please/ don't ask < 1314652396 403167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: try reading the esowiki article, then never ask again < 1314652398 3508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inhumane < 1314652403 469708 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's like referring to Dutch people as 'van'. <-- well at least singh is a noun (meaning lion iirc) < 1314652405 940847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that raises an interesting question: While the set of possible esolangs is clearly infinite, is the set of good esolangs finite or infinite? < 1314652415 885432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: honestly, I don't think production has slowed down, it's just that we get so much rubbish on the wiki at a higher rate than good esolangs have ever been generated < 1314652422 333349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1314652429 603492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: catseye still churns out multiple languages a year, after all, and most of them are interesting < 1314652429 686235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, given that it's a subjective thing, I'm going to go for "shut up Vorpal". < 1314652445 174284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather) < 1314652447 107194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come back cpressey we mmiss you < 1314652448 195893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the random sample experiment I did a year back showed that the majority of esolangs are not completely awful, still, if you take all esolangs ever written < 1314652464 125034 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: props <-- wat < 1314652474 963749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: norwegian guy had the longest beard ever, five metres < 1314652546 563517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, Feather is a language that allows you to retroactively modify the language itself. < 1314652591 614311 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to find out wat retroactive means < 1314652595 484812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can start to get to Feather by following a sequence of perfectly logical steps, then start to realise the implications and stop thinking about it in a pre-emptive attempt to stop your head exploding < 1314652604 609453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: making a change to something that happened in the past < 1314652618 272266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like time travel < 1314652619 352869 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1314652627 824293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, it is a bit like that 4D puzzle game I read about. But worse? < 1314652639 422829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing a four dimensional puzzle to feather? < 1314652641 621528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insulting < 1314652650 349482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway just use IOT to implement it. < 1314652650 939290 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314652656 859912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really, /all/ comparisons involving Feather are inaccurate < 1314652658 756791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least < 1314652660 662053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think iot provides enough < 1314652665 860433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's no more insulting than any other comparison < 1314652667 531999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just provides standard-issue time travel < 1314652668 991170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think call/cc provides enough < 1314652675 359341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean < 1314652676 776367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is proving it < 1314652677 274515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for easy implementation < 1314652682 981350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's insulting <-- true, but there are few other things to measure it against. Nothing as bad as Feather for a start. < 1314652734 52579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1314652743 605930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would it be possible to make a nerfed version of feather, then based on what you learnt from that make a better one and so on? < 1314652749 998449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :learned* < 1314652762 601776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314652766 308366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's how I'm going about it < 1314652780 824044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, as it's Feather, you can start with the first nerfed version and then retroactively change it into a full version < 1314652822 507604 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314652824 382486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah.... I was thinking about maybe a trial one that is more limited than that, to work out concepts and so on. < 1314652839 632871 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ord "DPEMOFKOXM" < 1314652840 280855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [68,80,69,77,79,70,75,79,88,77] < 1314652848 37880 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord "AB" < 1314652848 718352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1314652848 788297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1314652851 125216 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1314652857 163243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: either it has the inherent concepts that make it Feather, or it doesn't < 1314652858 87207 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord "A" < 1314652858 947639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1314652859 20272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1314652864 327186 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord 'A' < 1314652864 916363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 65 < 1314652877 978168 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ord 'b' < 1314652880 925782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, then none of the problems involved in retroactive modification come up, so it won't help < 1314652885 64746 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 65 < 1314652885 710356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'A' < 1314652889 789586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it /does/, then it's a protoFeather < 1314652891 273598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah hm < 1314652905 783706 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord 'c' < 1314652906 402229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 99 < 1314652907 29898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so there are no hard concepts that could be tested on their own as such? < 1314652907 362410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought it looked vaguely vaguely russian, so i wanted to check the characters :P < 1314652915 116803 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought the tricky bit was stuff like infinite stacks of interpreters. < 1314652920 808709 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (chr . (+) 5 . ord) "Huggles for everybody! Even the elves!" < 1314652922 244148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Mzllqjx%ktw%j{jw~gti~&%J{js%ymj%jq{jx&" < 1314652931 340838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot, DIE YO UBASATRD < 1314652948 210297 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric : > "oke" < 1314652966 611619 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (chr . (-) 5 . ord) "Mzllqjx%ktw%j{jw~gti~&%J{js%ymj%jq{jx&" < 1314652967 278539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not really infinite, you just pick a finite number for the size of your stack, and if it's too small, you retroactively make it bigger < 1314652967 998148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: (-72) < 1314652981 862958 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (chr . (flip (-)) 5 . ord) "Mzllqjx%ktw%j{jw~gti~&%J{js%ymj%jq{jx&" < 1314652983 191487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Huggles for everybody! Even the elves!" < 1314652984 184873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, I surmised as much. < 1314652995 752656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: just use (-5) < 1314653001 879304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than (flip (-)) 5 < 1314653011 746344 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okey < 1314653025 84544 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats Haskell right? < 1314653028 873673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: you had a space before the > < 1314653035 38313 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1314653035 808483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (flip (-)) < 1314653036 460476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> a < 1314653039 270027 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-5) < 1314653039 902272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a < 1314653042 374639 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehehe < 1314653050 480682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it is the binary - < 1314653052 8775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1314653052 827331 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, I guess I need to make an esolang. < 1314653056 106554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t subtract 5 < 1314653056 704534 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => t -> t < 1314653062 689732 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been, what, five years since my last one? :P < 1314653063 307887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, sure you do < 1314653090 168107 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you want (subtract 5) < 1314653107 240904 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip98-185-253-33.sb.sd.cox.net QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1314653114 781557 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor you made glass right? < 1314653119 249398 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: Yeah < 1314653131 962735 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool :) < 1314653139 599023 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f -> map (chr . f . ord) < 1314653139 676152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map . (chr .) . (. ord) < 1314653148 626146 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: it's not really infinite, [...] <-- i had this small idea that you could maybe use something equivalent to haskell's repeat for the bottom level? < 1314653156 136178 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t map . (chr .) . (. ord) < 1314653156 775814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int -> Int) -> [Char] -> [Char] < 1314653172 368788 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay obfuscation < 1314653195 46701 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map.(chr.).(.ord)$+5$"Test" < 1314653195 119165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 18): < 1314653195 191750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "+" or "$" < 1314653195 191908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", ".", white space, operator or end of input < 1314653195 262940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguous use of a left associative operator < 1314653196 532450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: - is the one operator you cannot section properly. but there is subtract. < 1314653198 94548 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1314653209 767152 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map.(chr.).(.ord)(+5)"Test" < 1314653209 858768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map . (chr .) . (ord "Test" + 5) < 1314653213 126770 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1314653216 436916 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map.(chr.).(.ord)(+5)"Test" < 1314653217 116801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `f (a -> GHC.Types.Int)' < 1314653217 188654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against infer... < 1314653218 386365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the bottom level is just a function that retroactively adds more levels < 1314653219 871509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oh, right < 1314653235 710695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact about ICA: if you're applying a function f to -5, the syntax is, logically, f((-5)) < 1314653243 830470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I added an abbreviation which allows just the one set of parens < 1314653256 578300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the unary minus operator is a circumfix (- ... )) < 1314653265 620546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (the unary minus operator is a circumfix (- ... )) < 1314653266 735406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1314653273 837850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has caused massive problems for haskell < 1314653290 803504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it part of the number literal syntax for all that's good and holy, with a separate negate operator :P < 1314653297 566643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_? < 1314653299 967713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not - < 1314653304 222039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, -x < 1314653307 262601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's (-x) < 1314653309 136368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the parens < 1314653314 987118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least have it bind tighter than application < 1314653315 407194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes it very different from binary - < 1314653321 423341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's hardly better but okay. < 1314653325 698847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1314653326 369957 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with _ for negative? < 1314653330 634767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how it binds is irrelevant because there's only one way circumfix operators can bind < 1314653343 729408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it looks silly, and it's not commonly used enough to be worth wasting a single character on < 1314653426 158112 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary - would be entirely sane if haskell didn't have sections. < 1314653437 760513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sections? < 1314653440 413133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate for negation, -5 for negative 5, x - 5 for x minus five < 1314653451 832032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, (5*) etc < 1314653456 727276 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1314653457 58013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+5) 2 < 1314653457 721869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1314653463 312232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1314653471 32826 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-5) 2 -- >:) < 1314653471 718700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -5 < 1314653491 675554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one < 1314653499 380078 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1314653505 43483 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because of lambdabot's special Num (a -> b) instance < 1314653513 673937 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (-5) 2 < 1314653513 746764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5 2 < 1314653515 509710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unary - would be entirely sane if haskell didn't have sections. < 1314653526 329918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f -9 should really do the obvious. < 1314653530 447374 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: don't trust @pl to get subtle syntax details right < 1314653535 765358 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1314653572 45083 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haskell does things inspired by math. f -9 is not common math notation. well admittedly neither is f 9. < 1314653582 625420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qed :P < 1314653590 931608 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does it? < 1314653597 997567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax isn't very mathsy, really. < 1314653612 452299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :math but better < 1314653619 663356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, no < 1314653621 991584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are bad < 1314653630 485079 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: haskell's parsing of -x*y+z is exactly as math would do it < 1314653636 825401 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1314653643 544383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a bad example < 1314653651 550460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sure, but that's just operator precedence any binding and all that. < 1314653654 288006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-x^y+z is better < 1314653664 348695 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y*-x+z < 1314653666 78368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (^) < 1314653666 695739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a < 1314653672 286507 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-(x^y+z)) < 1314653676 971775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1314653691 693451 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x y z -> (-(x^y+z)) < 1314653692 992060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1314653697 414376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a -> a < 1314653707 951049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't that've just complained about unbound variables? < 1314653708 747235 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that's another lambdabot feature, single letters are defined as that special Expr type < 1314653712 543197 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't math have like a ton of notations < 1314653713 810399 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1314653714 306221 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1314653717 904978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1314653720 464076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1314653721 104264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1314653741 119275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-(xx^yy+zz)) < 1314653741 874504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `xx'Not in scope: `yy'Not in scope: `zz' < 1314653753 600632 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x^y loops because y isn't a number which is reduced to 0 by the usual recursive definition of ^ < 1314653757 800443 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess) < 1314653759 775269 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. f 9 seems a lot more like lambda calculus notation than math notation, anyway < 1314653794 528342 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would normal math notation not make a mess of parentheses when used in haskell < 1314653794 946705 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map(reverse)([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]) < 1314653796 14505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[3,2,1],[6,5,4]] < 1314653797 273787 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe it's not C! < 1314653804 816502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can....... < 1314653808 828199 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1314653817 234872 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jokes. :V < 1314653823 139465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad ones < 1314653832 772043 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look anything like c < 1314653837 386298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like what python < 1314653851 340845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1314653853 200113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Python? August 2011. < 1314653857 227186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does javascript have that notation for lists it's been so long since I've used it < 1314653868 643119 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python map(reverse,[[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]) < 1314653869 834112 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1314653869 905942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today: we compare the Burmese to the Boa. < 1314653949 812501 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok haskell's notation isn't exactly the same as math, but basic arithmetic is the same wrt precedence, and that's not a feature that i think is frequently redefined in math subfields < 1314653968 711491 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the _meaning_ of the operators is redefined, but not their syntax) < 1314653997 329332 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rings and groups are used everywhere < 1314654004 286863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, the meaning is usually redefined to fit the syntax. < 1314654023 908908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's more general semantics, but still. < 1314654382 950361 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314654426 344545 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip98-185-253-33.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1314654694 538877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1314654695 610180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1314655313 834892 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much pain would I cause myself trying to implement something that's only partially continuation-passing style < 1314655400 160588 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1314655509 917051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking haskell could at least keep it sane if you use the ContT monad transformer to track the CPS-using parts < 1314655524 351538 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just an idea) < 1314655554 751065 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just Cont if the non-CPS-using parts are pure < 1314656572 760701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean implementing in Haskell < 1314656588 800857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe if I studied the Cont monad, that would give me inspiration? < 1314656611 310155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am implementing this in LSL < 1314656620 231380 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1314656711 779228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm meaning that if you used haskell, it might actually provide enough type security not to go mad while doing this >:P < 1314656958 495922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to raise a continuation when there are intervening non-CPS parts would be disastrous, i think < 1314656976 75620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of programs use continuations without being in full CPS < 1314656986 741966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :full CPS is pretty rare in human-written code < 1314657394 598428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1314657590 619243 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm planning on compiling to CPS or CPS-like < 1314657600 398412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want to avoid using continuations unless necessary < 1314657616 915052 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For efficiency purposes. But it might complicate implementation < 1314657672 533614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, full CPS would mean not needing to worry about ... what's the term for the stack of functions? call stack? < 1314657681 988259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well afaiu you need to use CPS whenever you call something which might raise a continuation outside of it. < 1314657753 354950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you turn your call stack into a chain of closures in the heap, probably < 1314657767 800024 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a known implementation technique, and it does simplify things < 1314657779 142761 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you pay for tracking that info one way or another :) < 1314657789 208613 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it easy to provide an actual call/cc primitive, for one < 1314657828 254525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still a little uncertain how I'm going to handle memory < 1314657999 98483 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1314658998 726661 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1314659223 384540 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1314660408 756878 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1314660604 254313 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1314661594 873383 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1314662181 457323 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1314662302 459957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds