< 1313798415 555599 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is IRC, we don't need no stinkin' ASCII. < 1313798432 702627 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, brb unicode < 1313798448 776712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :♩. ♩. ♩ ♩ < 1313798449 97554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /dev/urandom < 1313798450 823074 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\.wd..\fsX.5.S]3읢].a;Uj < 1313798478 367463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use cat /dev/random as an equivalent to reset, because I didn't know about reset < 1313798482 703923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tended to work eventually < 1313798487 124422 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :⒒ < 1313798488 363702 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313798490 269854 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the 1/1 time signature < 1313798502 159486 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Surely the most useful. < 1313798504 523308 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm assuming you also didn't know about urandom? < 1313798508 429810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1313798512 557885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do now, of course) < 1313798522 586747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, /dev/random was slow enough that it was probably better for that purpose < 1313798528 544562 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ẅē—ñêéđ—őǹłÿ—Üńı¢øðè¡ < 1313798528 967723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :urandom would quickly fill up the entire terminal with garbage < 1313798539 683779 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁂ < 1313798542 241893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm disappointed in you for not using a Unicode space for the spaces < 1313798543 28240 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :found the triforce < 1313798555 288230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't triforces made of triangles? < 1313798563 13776 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was lazy and only used things I already have a compose key for. < 1313798566 9273 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very small triforce and placed in a beam of light < 1313798569 339823 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's shinier than it is trianglier < 1313798573 984914 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :🐐 found the goat < 1313798610 52174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my /dev/random is painfully slow though < 1313798614 747282 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes, the Triforce is the first iteration of Sierpinski's triangle. < 1313798616 510680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take several minutes to fill the whole screen. < 1313798626 444601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, relating to that question about Uematsu, there are quite a few, indeed < 1313798637 951871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that was the point < 1313798641 633199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want it to < 1313798653 456125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it doesn't take urandom long to even overflow scrollback < 1313798654 554111 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :♩♪♫♬♭♮♯ < 1313798668 516884 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: You realize I've long since diagrammed the notes :P < 1313798681 342949 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just copying them out so I have them < 1313798718 384817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, apparently Mother 3 lets you do combos by pressing buttons in time to the music, and uses really silly time signatures (like 29/16) later on to make it harder < 1313798722 592110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty in character for that game < 1313798731 302320 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :29/16? < 1313798738 455202 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1313798760 349732 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (16*) [1..] < 1313798760 986525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [16,32,48,64,80,96,112,128,144,160,176,192,208,224,240,256,272,288,304,320,... < 1313798774 785527 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION np: 10253. Shogo Sakai, Shogo Sakai - [Mother 3 #80] Back Beat Battle - Hard, Back Beat Battle - Hard, Back Beat Battle - Hard [00:01/01:53] < 1313798798 632948 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :29/x (no, the denominator does not matter) is probably something like eight measures of four then a random extra beat. < 1313798799 28881 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This song swaps between 8 and 9 quavers < 1313798812 582941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually 32/x with three beats missing, apparently < 1313798834 46267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313798843 791788 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is 15/8 < 1313798844 662337 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION np: 10296. Shogo Sakai, Shogo Sakai - [Mother 3 #205] Strong One, Strong One, Strong One [00:18/02:34] < 1313798894 603776 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 32/x doesn't exist, it's nine measures of four :P < 1313798910 769684 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: s/doesn't exist/doesn't meaningfully exist/ < 1313798914 675265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :count this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUYtWvavvYg < 1313798915 611770 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure sure. < 1313798946 192901 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone could transcribe some 4/4 music into 4/G time just to be an ass. < 1313798956 180095 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :G? < 1313798961 318459 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number. < 1313798966 285851 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bulgarian bulge is sooo good < 1313798973 884288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: eight of four < 1313798989 661801 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Errr, yes ... < 1313798997 249031 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math I are not good at. < 1313799001 404675 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure the resulting sheet music would fit in the universe. < 1313799005 64404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8/8 I've used to mean 3+3+2 < 1313799040 841289 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the retain some meaning up until about 12. < 1313799046 395413 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's invent something better than time signatures < 1313799049 316298 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't retain enough information < 1313799049 393730 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I choose 12 because I've written something in 12 8-D ) < 1313799069 651632 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At which point it becomes notational masturbation? < 1313799073 569423 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I'll let you muddle over it until you're talking about PCM, then realize why notation exists. < 1313799077 193319 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yup. < 1313799090 111818 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don Ellis has plenty of complex time signatures if you're into that. < 1313799109 742718 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly hard to find music with complex time. < 1313799118 609255 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you might have to leave top 40. < 1313799128 476726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 12/8 is relatively common, isn't it? < 1313799128 650611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume by complex you mean complex numbers. < 1313799133 565857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the triplets version of 4/4 < 1313799136 404842 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Relatively. Yeah. < 1313799152 305878 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313799154 866064 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, 4+2i/4 time, THAT'S rare. < 1313799165 194573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can imaginary time even be played? < 1313799169 966033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to convert it to temperature somehow < 1313799171 333109 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex music sounds difficult. what's the second dimension, pitch? < 1313799172 95441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a complex time signature would be like two real signatures superimposed. < 1313799175 214473 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:13 < pikhq> It's not exactly hard to find music with complex time. < 1313799176 493733 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one part has one signature another part has the other. < 1313799177 693732 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:13 < pikhq> Though you might have to leave top 40. < 1313799180 346674 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:13 < pikhq> Which you should anyways. < 1313799193 331141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because "complex time" means 6/8, etc < 1313799208 228040 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 6/8 is so not complex :P < 1313799233 847631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about irrational time signatures? < 1313799238 408690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those would at least be possible to play < 1313799249 596944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably only via synthesizer from a timecode file < 1313799252 107671 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not 4/4! < 1313799253 167457 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313799272 889048 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :An irrational time signature would sound like your computer glitching up < 1313799286 627291 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every X gaps would be the wrong length < 1313799287 849084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you could play a complex time signature if you split the piece into two superimposed songs. :P < 1313799303 9205 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really very meaningful imaginary time. < 1313799317 378385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about having two different lines in incommensurable tempos? < 1313799320 497036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might sound quite good < 1313799332 603183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see any other way to do it really. < 1313799334 458085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x and y are incommensurable if x/y is irrational, in case you'd never heard the word before) < 1313799347 950521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Wouldn't that just be polyrhythm? < 1313799355 168395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes < 1313799379 654350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "just" polyrhythm. < 1313799386 5355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we already have a notation for polyrhythms < 1313799397 906418 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was just "oh yeah this part is 3 and this one is 2" < 1313799406 824857 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1313799409 868012 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I dunno if we do or not. < 1313799427 710809 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could very well be a deficiency in Western music notation. < 1313799451 394316 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be remedies by complex numbers and quaternions! < 1313799454 152004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remedied < 1313799476 983874 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever the 3-component one is called. < 1313799491 72682 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ... you could just write both lines, make sure the bar lines line up, and just notate them differently :P < 1313799503 19374 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Smart-ass. < 1313799503 769671 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313799524 629897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not as formal sounding! < 1313799526 495357 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, you could color-code, use different note styles, or just realize that it's not a good idea *shrugs* < 1313799630 661595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an excellent idea you just don't know it. < 1313799641 540200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could also the same thing with vector time signatures. < 1313799853 730730 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GUYS, I'm thinkin' of writing an environment for competitive programs which is presented as a 2D environment supporting some kind of cellular automaton (in addition to the intelligent agents controlled by the competitors), in which the goal is some kind of resource hoarding (like capture-the-flag for an enormous number of flags) < 1313799855 151673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you just write it in expanded notation, making the barlines line up? < 1313799872 814492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: could be interesting if done properly < 1313799883 68566 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The "done properly" part is why I'm bringing it here :P < 1313799902 895128 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some ideas, but I don't know if they make a cohesive game, so I'll see what other people would do with the same basic concept. < 1313799966 775975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, TIL that force fields actually exist and are possible with current technology, but are typically only used on very small scales because they take so much energy to maintain < 1313799997 572551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I enjoy this idea. < 1313800011 133450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a similar idea but with a rogue-like interface. < 1313800012 299763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are typically only used to allow radiation generators that only work in vacuums to nonetheless aim the radiation at something that isn't in a vacuum < 1313800046 996185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably in cases where you couldn't just use glass or another transparent material) < 1313800083 585329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so both programs would get to take turns inputing a text command into the environment. It could easily be a 2D grid of "rooms" or just cells. < 1313800110 489958 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think mine requires less strong AI :P < 1313800129 686932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not like that. more like a MUD that rogue. < 1313800137 251738 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :north south east west < 1313800145 143139 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor have you ever played with Robocode < 1313800154 308674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get, put, kill, etc < 1313800183 891975 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the MUD-like interface because then you can theme it about something. < 1313800187 13975 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I've looked at it a bit, but Java makes me want to puke :P < 1313800208 925724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO PREHISTORIC HUMANS IN A FIELD WITH SPEARS HUNTING WILD GAME AND TRYING TO STARVE OR KILL THE OTHER, or.. something. < 1313800211 665802 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor Gregor < 1313800217 846494 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a java allergy < 1313800224 415744 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes him break out in rashes on touch < 1313800239 405614 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had to ban java from our high schools to ensure Gregor and people like him's safety < 1313800257 614453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh touch AbstractProxyUtilityHandlerFactory.java < 1313800258 61986 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/touch: cannot touch `AbstractProxyUtilityHandlerFactory.java': Permission denied < 1313800270 605498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1313800270 940376 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1313800276 16406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: did you know that was going to happen? < 1313800289 83163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it might but I wasn't sure. < 1313800314 691536 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh touch hot.stove < 1313800315 57420 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/touch: cannot touch `hot.stove': Permission denied < 1313800319 312751 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why mother :( < 1313800351 107238 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh touch hot.stove & echo "You'll burn yourself, dear" < 1313800351 427475 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll burn yourself, dear < 1313800368 730865 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't work the way I expected it to < 1313800376 490231 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wanted || < 1313800389 283208 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh touch hot.stove || echo "You'll burn yourself, dear" < 1313800389 587115 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/touch: cannot touch `hot.stove': Permission denied < 1313800408 568563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are two outputs it DCCs one of them to me < 1313800417 546199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh touch hot.stove && echo "You'll burn yourself, dear" < 1313800417 893401 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/touch: cannot touch `hot.stove': Permission denied < 1313800436 957822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, right < 1313800439 255011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1313800470 997050 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, any further thoughts on CAbattlelandgamelol < 1313800474 481975 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just an EgoBot thing < 1313800484 895844 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: some form of resource gathering. < 1313800490 702580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with said resources < 1313800502 211680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an objective < 1313800502 967803 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the trick, innit ;P < 1313800511 782142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and surrender conditions. < 1313800514 392090 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh, make it like civilization < 1313800570 48805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well you have a home. you probably don't want it destroyed. you take resources back to your home to build things and uh... hatch more of yourself. < 1313800583 483662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1313800605 352685 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be able to see everything at all times, or only within a certain range? < 1313800610 682175 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thoughts were basically this: The resources include the one you're trying to collect, as well as an abundant building material. You build an area and try to collect stuff into it. < 1313800625 43121 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The stuff you're trying to collect always moves randomly) < 1313800630 453032 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Only an area. < 1313800639 145470 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there ought to be some kind of directionality in both humans and animals < 1313800640 168687 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in robocode < 1313800657 347953 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Directionality in what sense? You know what north is? < 1313800668 799439 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it makes movement non-trivial; based on which way you're pointing, your enemy is pointing and your guns are pointing as well as which direction you think your enemies will move next, you have to decide what to do next < 1313800676 678745 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :direcitonality as in, if I'm moving in a direction X I can keep moving in it or turn < 1313800697 484762 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313800762 268524 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without advantaged and disadvantaged positions it boils down to RPS < 1313800768 109626 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grid itself could also be a kind of program, like a fungespace < 1313800789 555279 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, I wanted it to be a CA of some kind. < 1313800791 369659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing you to create things like tripwires. < 1313800804 171105 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could make advantaged and disadvantaged areas, as well as allow for cleverness by players. < 1313800826 294088 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CA like the game of life, or a CA more like von neumann's CA? < 1313800832 290651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsure. < 1313800839 366130 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe animals breed according to the game of life < 1313800841 723391 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLOL INFINITE SHEEP < 1313800884 172355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a fungespace would be more interesting than something like GoL < 1313800901 28396 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think a CA other than GoL would be more interesting still :) < 1313800908 334009 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fungespace with instruction pointers, or circuit-like execution? < 1313800924 160671 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your mans the instruction pointers? < 1313800973 467916 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes to everything < 1313800981 614459 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm :P < 1313800999 603207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1313801011 777422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your agent(s) would be writers < 1313801024 763924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can place codes < 1313801033 233179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a concurrent fungespace thing. < 1313801076 691382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also read what the current code is I guess. < 1313801093 745143 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the substrate to be so complex that you can't make at least some kind of analysis of it ... < 1313801103 370452 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what I was thinking < 1313801107 891200 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :too complicated = ded < 1313801110 938503 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is a CA that's /mostly/ but not entirely stable, like wireworld, but maybe a bit nicer. < 1313801118 509633 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireworld sounds nice < 1313801126 338674 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe wireworld with instant (or faster than normal) transmission? < 1313801130 820881 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 10 generations per one mans generation < 1313801190 503579 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explicit input/output mechanisms that send signals and pick up signals < 1313801201 144181 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My concern with wireworld is less about propogation time (although I agree) than about whether it makes a suitable substrate ... I think it might be /too/ stable. Most random circuits I suspect would normalize to blackness and cold wires. < 1313801226 246476 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :random circuits would be uninteresting yeah < 1313801266 285834 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe wireworld with a SLIGHT change can improve that? < 1313801280 446782 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd rather have the substrate be more-or-less random, so you have to do something to get interesting behavior) < 1313801288 200474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be interesting if your agent(s) could place and remove conductors? < 1313801293 120010 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of slight change do you have in mind? < 1313801304 552005 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think it's vital :) < 1313801322 344833 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Addition of a new state? Something like "electron barfer" that just makes infinite electrons at some rate? < 1313801335 408681 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to make electron generators already < 1313801342 532067 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just start with empty? or do you not want to be like bfjoust where there's not much variation in the terrain. < 1313801388 764220 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just add a number of new states. < 1313801391 187192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I feel like deciding a good home base should be important, and for that we need randomized "terrain", even with biomes ala Minecraft. < 1313801400 851769 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yeah, but then most terrain would freeze. < 1313801413 395196 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Such as? < 1313801419 270526 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, you could have a state that generates electron heads on every neighboring conductor if an agent is present. < 1313801441 313592 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressure plate. :) < 1313801448 444086 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1313801455 284070 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- googwhore < 1313801461 860725 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buttons that agents can deign to push < 1313801468 857754 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Levers that agents can deign to toggle between electron barfer and do nothing < 1313801474 727497 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically minecraft < 1313801478 103843 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol no < 1313801478 176291 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313801501 742390 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your struly doing here? < 1313801535 867284 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: but since minecraft has redstone which acts similar to wires, and we're using a wire-like CA < 1313801539 357825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's going to be similarities. < 1313801554 630442 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's inevitable < 1313801555 929095 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, levers = too much intelligence. < 1313801565 759130 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember these are programs, not people :P < 1313801576 691890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still we haven't really established a point to all of this wire business. < 1313801579 27769 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe instead of wireworld, have explicit links between components? so it's easier to analyze by a bot < 1313801584 737441 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: True X-D < 1313801608 386313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the point is to maybe trap the other agent so that it can't move, then you'd want some kind of wall state. < 1313801631 669387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the point is to gather resources then you want a way for the wires to act as supply lines. < 1313801663 626917 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily, you could still just want them to be a wall, to prevent the other player from stealing them as well as mark your territory. < 1313801699 472427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I know. < 1313801712 583538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain actions could have costs involved. setting up and removing walls would cost points. < 1313801730 547253 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1313801747 674253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think conductor should be free, perhaps? < 1313801759 598248 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, just plentiful in the substrate and collectable. < 1313801766 368163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1313801782 76037 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you sabotage your opponents mechanisms? < 1313801784 537817 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to destroy the substrate to build anyway *shrugs* < 1313801789 23055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Why not? < 1313801806 359631 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOH OOOOH OOOOOOOH < 1313801812 55054 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capture the flag < 1313801812 895890 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's too easy you'd never build anything < 1313801817 241817 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your flag is a special electron. < 1313801822 550498 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1313801837 137100 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a permanent electron head? < 1313801849 201253 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not permanent, or it wouldn't be enormously collectable :P < 1313801853 355534 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so could it be moved around, you mean? < 1313801862 250685 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you join, it would create a repeater to keep it alive, then you could try to protect it. < 1313801876 22618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be interesting if you had to conduct the flag back to your base instead of just take it and run. :) < 1313801906 515082 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, but then we still need a consistent notion of "base" :) < 1313801928 458272 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your base is the area enclosed by base markers, which take X resource to produce < 1313801938 159982 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to make it all formal < 1313801944 634885 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single cell could easily have multiple kinds of states. < 1313801957 23454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :base would just be a special designation for the location you started at. < 1313801966 37317 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Started at is no good. < 1313801977 577600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, why? < 1313801978 300495 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I wanted to make so-called biomes so you would need to find a good spot. < 1313801995 23161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were we saying about complexity? :P < 1313802002 709519 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm :) < 1313802006 227740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that would be cool if it's not too absurd. < 1313802009 383371 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have biomes, random map generators would be biased in favour of one player or another too often < 1313802039 262445 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Not if it always puts you in a shitty location X-D < 1313802043 611847 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1313802066 87304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploration would be very time consuming in a game like that. < 1313802111 303538 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of opening turns in civilization 1 < 1313802111 808583 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough ... so maybe a consistent (though random) substrate, and your starting location (+radius X?) is your base. < 1313802115 845598 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with carrying a flag electron is that that's not how wireworld works. < 1313802125 709341 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't like your first spot, it takes an entire turn to move your initial settler one tile, and you often don't have anything else to explore with you < 1313802126 383934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrons can branch off onto two conductors, where would the flag go in that situation? < 1313802147 674657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could ALL be flags... < 1313802164 786524 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, I haven't fully thought that through :) < 1313802171 661589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they come from another flag electron head, which has to originate from someone's base < 1313802187 836358 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you take it to an AND gate, and it's not sending output? it just...gets blocked there? < 1313802194 825085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1313802195 862292 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could drag it back to the previous gate and do a do-over < 1313802209 696849 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :build another wire out of your opponent's base to go around it < 1313802210 296347 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1313802210 462787 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine part of the strategy would be trying to prevent a flagged electron from arriving. < 1313802213 343937 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :short circuiting! < 1313802215 588768 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we need more sophisticated rules for the not-actually-an-electron-head flag *shrugs* < 1313802249 815681 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the attackers strategy would be to keep the flag alive by creating branches, carrying it through a trap to block the defender, etc. < 1313802290 250246 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hmms, unconvinced. < 1313802328 977775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need a medium-sized list of states that play nicely together. so one kind of wall could be electron-activated. < 1313802344 817975 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have any of you ever played DROD? < 1313802353 316518 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :danggit < 1313802354 742150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other kind just stays there until someone removes it. < 1313802361 21615 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Nope < 1313802391 370945 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of {elliott, Phantom_Hoover, Taneb} are here < 1313802396 415909 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both can be removed. everything could be torn down at a cost. < 1313802411 377272 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try it, it's a unique puzzle game revolving around slashing things with your sword and not dying and also puzzles < 1313802416 780955 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Seed money for the reanimator. < 1313802420 248033 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has directionality in that your sword is facing in only one direction at any given moment < 1313802428 260734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: probably the best way to go about a competitive programming game of this complexity < 1313802444 495755 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to go ahead and build the codebase, throw together some ideas, test it out, revise. < 1313802446 128448 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313802454 631978 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Probably a fair point ... < 1313802467 41481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it makes sense and is competitive. < 1313802497 462189 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313802522 495914 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what are our states thusfar? < 1313802541 425532 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are animals and resources CA states or actors? < 1313802547 685379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireworld states. modifier states: flag, base < 1313802558 119715 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I think we kinda lost animals and resources :) < 1313802570 685868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think resources would still be a good idea < 1313802570 909748 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So, no walls now :P < 1313802576 455740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait, yeah, walls. < 1313802579 569177 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1313802601 209730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :electron-activated walls, regular walls, triggers (aka pressure plates, buttons, whatever) < 1313802603 976869 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And I'm far from convinced that flags should be special electrons, I think they should be a separate state that just has some similar behavior to electrons. < 1313802634 74139 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, with the design as it stands, non-flag electrons serve no purpose whatsoever :) < 1313802634 706615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the resources are important because otherwise it becomes far too easy to just destroy something the other player built. < 1313802661 389211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to destroy something would cost something. time, points, whatever. < 1313802679 446607 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to hmmm. < 1313802694 781914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: they would activate various "output" devices I'd imagine. Like the powered walls. < 1313802702 618310 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should cost more to destroy than to create < 1313802704 684235 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Else why ever build? < 1313802749 676010 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want it so that you "collect" resources then you could have it so that there's ownership of things. < 1313802754 709518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours, enemies, unowned. < 1313802773 223080 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balance is going to be a real trick ... < 1313802779 181291 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could up yours/unowned for free, and keep it < 1313802791 801663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then to destroy an enemies you need to expend something. < 1313802800 863429 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313802805 833367 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe natural electrons are a resource, and the terrain generator would make sure they're stable in some places? < 1313802820 878460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds reasonable. < 1313802833 521211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be the only way to generate power. < 1313802861 254110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity isn't bad... it would just be a long-term game. which makes it more interesting. < 1313802880 561568 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My concern in the complexity is that nobody would ever write a player :P < 1313802898 73271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you have it so that you connect to the server and send commands from any language you want < 1313802907 829107 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it wouldn't be too bad to keep track of state and such. < 1313802923 916694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to bfjoust where it's always brainfuck and so even the smallest bit of complexity results in huge programs. < 1313802956 421147 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, absolutely this is an any-language game. < 1313802962 624263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think to maintain sanity you'd need concurrent agents that you could eventually produce with resources. < 1313802983 959362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could also be killed, perhaps. < 1313802991 798835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1313802993 249725 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an idea. < 1313802995 864332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :throwing shit out there. < 1313803000 593295 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're concurrent over the interwebs, then peoples' connections cause them unfair ad/disadvantages :( < 1313803009 852614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need a round robin scheduler. < 1313803018 783032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a surrender timeout. :P < 1313803025 199651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Then it would take days to get a frame X_X < 1313803028 599499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take too long to issue your commands then you automatically lose. < 1313803038 308361 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :days? < 1313803041 436201 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see why. < 1313803053 995802 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you take too long to issue your commands then you automatically lose. // then we're back to connection ad/disadvantages. < 1313803078 614154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well otherwise it just hangs forever until the player reconnects. < 1313803084 223320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a long timeout. :P < 1313803090 570793 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313803102 48401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: OK, then it'll take days to render a frame :P < 1313803115 38972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...still not following. < 1313803129 913046 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Days" is obviously an exaggeration. < 1313803141 557719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yeah didn't catch that. < 1313803153 628603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it would take like... miliseconds. < 1313803160 212753 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that if you have to wait 500ms for every update, we're talkin' multi-day epics to actually accomplish anything. < 1313803225 355994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long you have to wait would just depend on the connection latency < 1313803229 575768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wouldn't take that long < 1313803240 93969 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's something you can really avoid. < 1313803257 696352 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it less terrible by running the programs on the same machine/network :P < 1313803291 366219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the non-concurrent setup it would take hundreds of steps to use a defensive strategy to upkeep your camp/resources/whatever < 1313803347 995554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 steps is probably about a minute over the Internet. < 1313803372 187243 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'd wait. :P < 1313803401 352594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah you could host them on the same machine. < 1313803412 971384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pass an input handle to the programs. < 1313803421 515428 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to hmm. < 1313803427 3146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, output handle rather. < 1313803441 179473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdout of the client program would be the input to the server. < 1313803449 511801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what am I talking about just use stdio :P < 1313803451 755377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313803475 762850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah new agents would be expensive < 1313803487 965855 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eh* < 1313803488 270468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if possible at all. < 1313803506 182582 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anybody knows how to safely run untrusted code, it's me :P < 1313803511 836661 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do the redcode thing where you can't actually go faster you can just be in multiple places at once. < 1313803541 730272 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robocode manages to do it somehow < 1313803546 49468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still that should cost something because that's still an advantage. < 1313803561 793461 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmm < 1313803577 32264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would certainly make it feel more like an RTS of sorts. < 1313803579 425575 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocode#Safely_run_other_peoples.27_bots < 1313803597 534686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you just sandboxed everything and set permissions I don't see the problem. < 1313803646 851634 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Robocode is VM'd, sandboxing a VM is boring. < 1313803656 397625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I think an important first step would be to figure out how resources would work for the first draft. < 1313803661 853067 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the PROBLEM, I'm just hmming over the necessities. < 1313803663 939925 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1313803673 521227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as resources are essential to the strategy. < 1313803693 862395 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we agreeing that electrons are a legit resource? < 1313803695 581568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could have it where there's electron geysers out in the world, and you have to funnel them to your base. electrons = points < 1313803711 170838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could have it where you just go around scavenging shit. < 1313803716 188119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1313803749 386951 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a form of logic, for doing things. < 1313803750 261217 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, I think we need a more powerful notion of "base" if we want to funnel electrons to the base ... plus that makes doing things at the opponents base or making decoys annoying. < 1313803811 144805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the other alternative would be to... somehow have electrons construct other states themselves through uh... some kind of funky voodoo. < 1313803825 737967 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what a decoy would be in this game.... < 1313803863 819135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could have it where you just claim the geysers and they build electrons automatically over time, but that's kind of lame I think. < 1313803900 147775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is lame. < 1313803910 156575 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also by "geyser" I hope you just mean "stable circuit" < 1313803926 770554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the mythical electron barfing cell. < 1313803933 979480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean like resources that's autogenerated on the map that you have to find and then connect to your base. < 1313803942 340518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically an electron generator/repeater thing. < 1313803960 755800 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but that can be done with plane wireworld circuitry, not anything special. < 1313803963 326223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it could be a stable circuit, sure. < 1313803963 414549 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I wanted to make sure of :P < 1313803980 817611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference would be that the stable circuit could be destroyed. < 1313803989 632923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the geyser has the possibility of being indestructable. < 1313804017 821321 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can place a conductor potentia, which will become a conductor if electrified, but can only be placed next to a conductor? < 1313804039 713105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is the same thing as a conductor in essence. < 1313804051 631159 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the caveat that you couldn't build it at unlimited rate. < 1313804063 504554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it makes electrons a sort of /implicit/ resource, rather than explicit. < 1313804074 633659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate conductors < 1313804083 296328 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have no other devices to make the conductors useful. < 1313804095 208284 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they also have potentia things. < 1313804110 237375 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno how many of the other cells I'm convinced of yet ^^ < 1313804130 36105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if electrons don't power other cells then essentially they have to be tied directly to the objective. < 1313804133 136127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they do nothing. < 1313804153 330317 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right X-D < 1313804160 443775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I made that point, didn't I :P < 1313804171 831235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we both did at some place. < 1313804194 549469 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the other cells are not usable as conductors, and not useful at home, they may as well be near-free to build, since you'll have to get the conductor out there anyway. < 1313804196 619951 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big ifs though. < 1313804216 79568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1313804236 428378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should perhaps take different amounts of time to build though. < 1313804239 114554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time is always a resource. < 1313804245 819810 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeeeeeeeeeeed. < 1313804251 124464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where time is measured in turns here. < 1313804271 36997 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to destroy < 1313804287 402232 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving you the decoy dynamic of bfjoust sort of. < 1313804291 539634 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more complex. < 1313804296 191260 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the electrons do directly correspond to a goal condition if you have to build conductors potentia and ferry the flag back. < 1313804307 850739 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1313804331 538236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you od need to make it possible to have /multiple/ flag electrons... since... that's how the rules work. < 1313804357 682549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say your flag is going left to right: ----=== < 1313804360 386717 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm still trying to rectify that X-D < 1313804371 67489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to split into two flag electrons at the = < 1313804378 208798 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. In robocode, you don't know when your enemy shoots < 1313804379 629991 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to guess < 1313804410 811753 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hmms away. < 1313804415 520083 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, isn't necessarily a bad thing as it might make attack/defense more interesting. but it also might make attack really simple because you could just build large numbers of branching circuits that take too long to destroy. < 1313804447 960402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps at a branch point the flag non-deterministically chooses a path. :P < 1313804470 633764 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was thinking that when you had multiple flags, they would only have to ferry ONE back. < 1313804476 710240 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your goal is to NOT duplicate your flag. < 1313804492 709309 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus there's the issue that we have to figure out what happens if your flag should be snuffed out. < 1313804501 78839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, perhaps we are imagining different setups here. < 1313804514 175949 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost assuredly :) < 1313804558 929760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that a flag electron is just a thing that is generated from your opponents base (or some other base-like point... their.. flag?) when you attach a conductor to it. < 1313804569 100512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the flag itself is stationary, but the flag electron could die. < 1313804580 576197 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1313804595 250372 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking the flag electron was something put in a stable circuit when you started/joined. < 1313804605 184729 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a possibility I suppose. < 1313804627 834230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with either setup generating multiple flag electrons is still problematic < 1313804630 846667 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes offense really simple. < 1313804637 678547 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you destroy your own flag electron? What if your enemy destroys their opponent's flag electron? Can it be determined who's fault it was? < 1313804654 736407 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in gregor's system the flag electrons could just be made indestructible. < 1313804664 741072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine it wouldn't matter as the flag which generates the flag electrons is permanent. < 1313804691 921348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need to include any sort of understanding of culpability. :P < 1313804703 162819 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then < 1313804711 584122 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm still not sure if I comprehend why duplication makes offense simple ... < 1313804730 79554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could make this massive branching circuit to their flag < 1313804735 288420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flag moves along, branches like 20 times. < 1313804739 88925 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does the defender fix this? < 1313804776 265303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the defender is trying to kill the flag electron that was generated... so that it doesn't reach the offenders base) < 1313804779 834796 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they need to fix it? The time investment to make use of it to steal their flag would be enormous. < 1313804781 961909 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how capture the flag works, right? :P < 1313804799 389612 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :true enough, I suppose that is the limitation of that offense strategy. < 1313804833 32518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that would require testing I think. < 1313804844 459598 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just speculation. < 1313804860 554051 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, but I also don't think we have enough specifics on our speculation to implement :) < 1313804864 949887 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yet) < 1313804865 141731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1313804870 313181 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1313804919 294409 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I guess our main resource is time really, if I'm understanding your connector potentia thing. < 1313804945 188051 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time it takes for each electron to activate the next s/connector/conductor/r < 1313805000 257786 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's sort of a combination of electrons and time. You could reduce the time taken by having more electrons on the circuit. < 1313805011 609112 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I'm not back :P < 1313805015 536134 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still bbiab :P ) < 1313805084 745243 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you could set up a bunch of dead conductors, and it would take a single pulse to activate each dead conductor into a live one. < 1313805093 968021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just wanted to avoid saying potentia again :P ) < 1313805147 452154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :build time and other specifics can be fine-tuned later, for now we can just establish some methods of operation. < 1313805317 462543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if there's no concurrency I think it would be interesting if you had a reader agent and a writer agent that were distinct. < 1313805333 996111 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the reader agent is roaming around surveying and the writer agent is building/destroying < 1313805443 159554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then at least you're not constrainted to one cell per turn. < 1313805472 396653 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your reader could be planning ahead while the writer is busy building. < 1313805685 262266 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were walls then the opponent could lead your reader into a trap box. hilarity ensues. < 1313805786 814371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one of the nice things about using general-purpose languages would be that you could write libraries with common utilities that you'd want for this sort of thing. < 1313805826 283433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making program writing easier once you've established your own set of tools < 1313805831 956462 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or used someone elses. < 1313806216 968333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could start with the basic wireworld + base + agent + flag + flag electron setup < 1313806227 537688 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :play with that, and then brainstorm additions. < 1313806253 613513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess base = flag right now < 1313806527 347579 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, new a boy and his blob TAS http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11686&highlight= < 1313806530 717633 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro watch < 1313806543 520261 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/0 < 1313806544 151816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1313806550 393648 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1/0 < 1313806551 66271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -Infinity < 1313806598 217176 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be NaN or something? < 1313806612 332088 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1313806612 985620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1313806615 585031 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go < 1313806618 242210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0)/(1/0) < 1313806618 914140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1313806639 109269 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this was mathematica we'd have directional infinity for all of the directions, all of them < 1313806668 18273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead we're just using the IEEE floating point standard < 1313806716 205315 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313806726 771807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt -1 < 1313806727 383693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1313806727 458085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1313806733 152044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sqrt < 1313806733 845736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1313806738 366508 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (-1) < 1313806739 48762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1313806750 839188 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has complex numbers doesn't it? < 1313806760 821795 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww, I was hoping for a Complex number. Though that would make sqrt way more difficult to use for the most common case. < 1313806763 752619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1313806770 350154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 :+ 2 < 1313806770 972300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.0 :+ 2.0 < 1313806780 643677 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t :+ < 1313806781 255477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `:+' < 1313806795 978400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (:+) < 1313806796 651462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (RealFloat a) => a -> a -> Complex a < 1313806801 908414 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1313806827 753342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then sqrt would have to be Complex a -> Complex a < 1313806914 685096 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would something like IO monad be implemented directly in Haskell? < 1313806941 72752 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313806945 481755 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it could be because there's no side-effects otherwise. < 1313806972 480656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need some kind of side-effect primitive that isn't IO... < 1313807038 91173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do all of the Haskell tutorials introduce monads as something to be scared of. < 1313807043 476016 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they are really very simple. < 1313807059 606909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for example, the side-effects could be external, or they could be faked based on some other function that takes input and then makes everything in the monad happens using that given input and produces one output < 1313807082 572762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I mean. < 1313807131 808886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really very different from what is already happening, sort of. < 1313807157 8031 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20110520T220201Z.html may be relevant?? I don't entirely understand the question, though. < 1313807243 113039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type IO a = RealWorld -> (a, RealWorld) < 1313807247 710052 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do something like this. < 1313807281 286360 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have functions from RealWorld -> RealWorld or something. < 1313807362 954813 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :realworld encapsulates the IO state? < 1313807385 518943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: OK that is relevant. < 1313807403 152104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: OK, that can be one way too. < 1313807437 639272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah GHC defines IO as: newtype IO a = IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) < 1313807457 590266 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: of course this is deeply magical and most likely highly misleading < 1313807470 385835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only magical part is RealWorld I guess. < 1313807484 426341 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and State# < 1313807485 145427 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am not making it based on the actual IO type, I am using my own types instead. < 1313807532 954659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With such kind of thing, how would return and >>= be implemented? < 1313807545 507760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your guess is as good as mine... < 1313807750 190455 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back. CakeProphet: What's goin' onnnn < 1313807751 680776 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO may cause drowziness. < 1313807786 592538 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : so basically you could set up a bunch of dead conductors, and it would take a single pulse to activate each dead conductor into a live one. // my thought was that a conductor potentia had to be next to a (non-potentia) conductor. < 1313807787 124151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: see above. < 1313807807 79719 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : also if there's no concurrency I think it would be interesting if you had a reader agent and a writer agent that were distinct. // So, if there's no concurrency, concurrency? :) < 1313807814 519377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313807827 835821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more limited form I suppose. < 1313807864 332427 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey guys, new a boy and his blob TAS http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11686&highlight= // how pro we talkin' 'bout ;P < 1313807890 744786 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor, it gets to the credits THEN beats the game rather than the other way around < 1313807899 148597 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm trying to decide if being able to build workers makes any kind of sense at all ... < 1313807906 963493 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: OK, that's pretty pro X-D < 1313807923 924155 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, spawning more agents makes plenty of sense. < 1313807930 968176 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agents could be builders, or... do whatever. < 1313807956 626021 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should watch it :D < 1313807975 171303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly opens up possibilities that would otherwise be absent. < 1313807984 453035 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But if you spawn a borg collective, you could just stomp all over things ... needs to be a heavy penalty. < 1313808005 61351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the way it works in redcode is that it slows down each active agent. < 1313808020 556403 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically each player gets the same number of turns still. < 1313808020 952181 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (IMHO) TOO heavy a penalty. < 1313808033 963210 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe) < 1313808039 881254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "I/O is not a monad" stuff describes a "data IO a" type with a constructor for each action, and it defines return and >>= to me it looks like it could work. I tried something like that but probably I made a few mistakes now I can fix it < 1313808104 634261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they say is not a monad, but then describe one way which is a monad, too < 1313808146 629662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well otherwise you need some kind of point system that isn't just electrons. < 1313808159 753061 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: lol, boy in glitchland < 1313808180 712854 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say I/O is not a monad, but there's a way to make an IO monad for monadic convenience < 1313808181 715016 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really depending on how strategems emerge being in two places at once might be worth being twice as slow. < 1313808205 205185 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I spose >_> < 1313808224 110347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in a massive 2-d grid world..... < 1313808236 476832 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I guess I'm developing Starcraft: Wireworld in my head :P < 1313808246 557104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, yeah that would certainly be amazing. < 1313808251 595459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves SC < 1313808277 615747 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did have a point system them you could spend large amounts of points on new agents that operate at the same speed. < 1313808289 131508 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, like in most RTSes, the more concurrent you are the better. < 1313808300 150121 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is starting to get way too complex lol < 1313808306 729870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: nah not really. < 1313808307 615782 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a game for bots or for humans? < 1313808311 927922 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't know if this is feasible, but maybe the penalty could be that the agents can't communicate by magic. < 1313808324 415951 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, they have to communicate via the server, so have to be near each other. < 1313808330 946285 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to coordinate, you have to regroup. < 1313808332 140892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :communicate how? < 1313808342 560815 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything. They have no shared heap. < 1313808343 218529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... that would eliminate the possibility of general-purpose languages. < 1313808354 868089 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, it would just change how new agents are created. < 1313808358 199204 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean each agent spawns a new process with absolutely no communication. < 1313808361 768767 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than multiplexing the chan--- yeah. < 1313808386 621242 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be difficult to implement in practice. < 1313808403 506891 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be too complex to use :) < 1313808410 231191 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just focus on single-agent for the moment and iterate. < 1313808415 200094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with borg collectives. :P < 1313808417 758891 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1313808462 300904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I could then write a massively concurrent Haskell program that uses STM to coordinate my borglings actions. < 1313808521 931992 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe making a new agent not only takes some number of electrons, but destroys the conductors in the process ... < 1313808534 686510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have some gathering resources, some building massive branch circuits for offense, some guarding the flag, build more agents as the resources come in. lol < 1313808541 440533 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, we'll think about multi-agent systems later. What details are there left for the single-agent case? < 1313808556 796220 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or details we disagree on but don't realize we disagree on X-D < 1313808574 687089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize we disagreed on anything. < 1313808581 995900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be problematic. :P < 1313808603 914498 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we still disagree on the nature of the flag. < 1313808604 479600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I'm just throwing ideas out there. I didn't expect every idea that came to mind to be set in stone. < 1313808617 26410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm forming a game in my head :P < 1313808640 229588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how does your flag work. I think I already explained mine. < 1313808664 549123 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is still a tad bit undefined ^^ < 1313808679 812055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I just wanted another type of cell, with behavior similar but not identical to electrons. < 1313808702 480218 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major difference being that you can never end up with no flag at all. < 1313808702 886456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would persist despite lack of a conductor? < 1313808719 716938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what kind of capture the flag you want. < 1313808728 883837 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we both agreed on ferry-the-flag? < 1313808741 604663 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of what makes my conductors potentias make sense. < 1313808791 495730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that setup you could spend time moving your flag around to throw off the enemy, but it also means that in defense you not only have to stop the offender, but return your flag somewhere safe. turns into a tug-of-war of sorts. < 1313808797 185180 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :re persistence: Probably the rule would just be that if none of a flag's neighbors is an open conductor, then it doesn't change to a flag tail < 1313808909 215472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also splitting is still undefined. do you want it to be possible to have more than one flag at a time? < 1313808915 611712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1313808935 947670 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought was that if you get even one enemy flag to your base, you win, which I think balances it. < 1313808937 38033 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe do away with the idea of agents and everything. Why not just make it a wireworld competitive game? < 1313808951 148381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need something that... writes to the grid. < 1313808967 485791 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can < 1313808974 364391 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also programming in wireworld is terrible, so you'd have very little intelligence :P < 1313808987 655958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t competitively program a grid with another program in a separate file. < 1313808989 533184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense. < 1313809006 446297 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that could probably be rectified, although I don't know how. < 1313809010 789434 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like our idea better :P < 1313809015 664624 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1313809033 15564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the fungespace idea as well, as it would create quite a bit of complexity. < 1313809045 15403 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like that's too much X-D < 1313809065 302583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor just doesn't know how to have fun.. :P < 1313809088 845358 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1313809133 219862 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, current full idea: Normal wireworld + conductor potentia + set area around starting location is a base + flag-electrons which are not extinguishable but are duplicable + one flag in enemy base is loss + whoops we forgot how you destroy things. < 1313809145 60478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of all the fun you could have with the # command in befunge. :D < 1313809179 192681 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would destroy the same way you build, it would take time. < 1313809229 525235 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, maybe you only have the ability to demote conductor->potentia->blank, so they can try to keep their stuff alive by keeping current? < 1313809262 382466 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make it pretty difficult to destroy a line. < 1313809280 408339 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spose X-D < 1313809285 469557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe. < 1313809291 15561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how the potentia works < 1313809294 677907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm still not clear on. < 1313809307 149872 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might just make keeping your wire alive through that method difficult < 1313809315 135569 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potentia next to electron becomes conductor (NOT electron) < 1313809331 525276 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a potentia be placed anywhere? < 1313809335 551030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to other potentia? < 1313809341 103868 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only next to a conductor (NOT potentia) < 1313809351 17596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then to build a wire you have to < 1313809360 723085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :build potential; wait for pulse; build potential; wait for pulse < 1313809402 902446 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1313809426 853431 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that we said that there are N wireworld moves per agent move. < 1313809432 749906 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not like pulses are super-rare. < 1313809449 204539 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although we may want to rethink that) < 1313809473 7615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so that either makes it a) difficult to destroy wires b) difficult to defend wires (though defending wires will be difficult either way) < 1313809505 487768 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah >_> < 1313809507 371411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :say your wire is on a fast 1-clock pulse < 1313809513 453939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its moving faste than you demote things. < 1313809513 897548 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK if it's difficult, not if it's impossible :) < 1313809517 233452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't break the wire. < 1313809522 133045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*faster < 1313809555 875770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would just make more sense if it took a set amount of time to clear each state type to blank. < 1313809567 731719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just manually rebuild wires to get them working again. < 1313809578 293638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that the space shuttle Enterprise and the starship Enterprise are actually named after each other < 1313809599 798280 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutually recursive name attribution? o_o < 1313809604 279370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to Star Trek retroactively changing their canon after the space shuttle was named after the starship < 1313809611 474834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1313809622 455900 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a... what's it called, a time travel loop that supports itself < 1313809631 614633 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not stochastic, not chronological... it was some kind of logic term < 1313809634 55776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable time loop? < 1313809636 874495 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1313809673 794571 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, ontological paradox < 1313809707 454905 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, it seems that the space shuttle Enterprise and the starship Enterprise are actually named after each other // yup < 1313809751 940185 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not entirely clear how that's possible. < 1313809775 679856 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel < 1313809778 753537 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally, if a retcon counts < 1313809794 486587 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I'm/to me, it's/ < 1313809797 205341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1313809800 179852 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :retcons don't count. < 1313809802 868982 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as time travel. < 1313809806 37113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one was named after the other. < 1313809812 616613 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't? if I was a time traveller I could go back in time, alter the past and that's essentially what a retcon is! < 1313809833 926059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they went back in time to rename the starship to Enterprise? < 1313809839 23192 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313809846 191517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then wouldn't have been named Enterprise the whole time? < 1313809856 389481 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the point of going back in time to change things, yes < 1313809872 378571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more importantly, wouldn't that mean that Star Trek actually named their starship after the space shuttle? < 1313809904 897139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Star Trek name came first < 1313809911 691974 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes both ways. the starship being named enterprise inspired the shuttle being named enterprise inspired the starship being named enterprise more inspired the shuttle being named enterprise more < 1313809914 672208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they retroactively changed their canon to change what it was named after < 1313809919 45614 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what's called a stable time loop < 1313809938 458143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....no, because it was named enterprise first, and then the space shuttle was named after it. < 1313809939 498449 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that it exists it sustains itself < 1313809945 862139 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the entire plot of chrono cross < 1313810002 527926 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if elliott were here he would be berating me right about now) < 1313810005 886711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine. < 1313810094 672219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, retcons don't count as reality. < 1313810100 932470 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space shuttle was named after the starship. < 1313810340 378318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps you could build resource collectors separate from your flag. You get one for free and then the rest cost electrons. < 1313810345 197756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a possibility. < 1313810353 234652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted a bit more complexity. < 1313810403 129286 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just muddling over the whole thing right now < 1313810407 360540 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if a Char type in Haskell is allowed to store values that are not valid Unicode code points? < 1313810433 79423 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :example? < 1313810437 639907 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it, we have lambdabot here < 1313810506 943097 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell print (unsafeCoerce 4 :: Char) < 1313810536 653192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print (unsafeCoerce 4 :: Char) < 1313810543 783817 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke it < 1313810550 368824 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried in my computer. I get a "bad argument" error, so I guess it cannot work. < 1313810566 570644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: unsafeCoerce isn't in scope actually. < 1313810589 929330 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313810590 260856 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle unsafeCoerce < 1313810590 360650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1313810600 964886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 4 :: Char) < 1313810605 873224 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\EOT' < 1313810619 805629 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 7876756434354767667 :: Char) < 1313810623 819762 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\7876756434354767667' < 1313810651 277887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce True :: Char) < 1313810656 52801 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\8646911284555550920' < 1313810663 798348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce False :: Char) < 1313810663 887586 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that work < 1313810668 425163 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\1091095544' < 1313810673 940596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce is basically like a C typecast. < 1313810686 661973 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought unicode was only two bytes though? < 1313810691 403606 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is unsafeCoerce. I used toEnum and got bad argument errors < 1313810693 183936 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the encoding. < 1313810712 653573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what argument < 1313810725 440088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce Nothing :: Char) < 1313810730 351569 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\1084214928' < 1313810746 738538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: toEnum 0x1FFFFE :: Char results in bad argument error < 1313810761 88289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does GHC use? UTF32 by default? < 1313810762 130924 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Unicode only goes from 0x000000 to 0x10FFFF < 1313810768 746565 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313810813 534811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it uses UTF-26 by default. < 1313810818 718468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*16 < 1313810829 977665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce [1,2,3,4] :: Char) < 1313810834 632536 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\-8646910737677299423' < 1313810838 369664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313810844 395619 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1313810849 348724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SO UNSAFE, EH? < 1313810869 929407 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce :: Char) < 1313810874 416573 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\NUL' < 1313810877 769612 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313810883 359136 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce ['\0','\0',3,4] :: Char) < 1313810898 508070 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1313810913 622705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313810920 459691 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce ['\0','\0','1','1'] :: Char) < 1313810924 886772 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'\6341068821252833345' < 1313810942 509161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine here is where the segfaults begin: < 1313810953 405014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Char]) < 1313810958 2496 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"" < 1313810969 182449 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 1231251212512 :: [Char]) < 1313810973 884124 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"" < 1313810980 601525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, empty strings? < 1313810982 867210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1313810983 991185 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313811017 455736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 1231251212512 :: Maybe Char) < 1313811022 145864 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1313811028 992950 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 1231251212512 :: Maybe t) < 1313811048 801239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is a proper code < 1313811053 398694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguous type variable < 1313811073 820456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using unsafeCoerce and you're worrying about proper code? :P < 1313811085 609225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 1231251212512 :: Either Int Char) < 1313811090 154050 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313811097 996489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if Haskell doesn't know what to do with it, because it is ambiguous type variable, then it is even less proper < 1313811099 41480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... Left? < 1313811143 393080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Either Int Char) < 1313811147 850201 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313811154 853725 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what that even means. < 1313811158 937424 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is only "Left", not the value? < 1313811175 675525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some kind of garbage value I guess. < 1313811220 649685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce [] :: Either Int Char) < 1313811225 115430 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313811262 88197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print let Left x = (unsafeCoerce [] :: Either Int Char) in x < 1313811269 887177 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it print Right and I'll give you money < 1313811283 390244 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313811287 933116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (let Left x = (unsafeCoerce [] :: Either Int Char) in x) < 1313811294 339572 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1313811301 827833 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (let Left x = (unsafeCoerce [] :: Either Int Char) in x) < 1313811315 60086 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1313811338 815713 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP BREAKING SHIT < 1313811353 522090 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm breaking your bot? < 1313811400 633643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it would just segfault and crash the haskell thread.... < 1313811417 353786 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or process < 1313811426 662272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print Left 0 < 1313811435 654011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ Left 0 < 1313811447 634451 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print 0 < 1313811452 617174 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1313811460 885147 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not entirely broken < 1313811483 515669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1313811490 529088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print [1,2,3,4] < 1313811495 481780 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[1,2,3,4] < 1313811506 326802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (let Left x = (unsafeCoerce [] :: Either Int Char) in x) < 1313811509 182474 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = error "stop breaking me" < 1313811509 345246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1313811513 812882 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.10668.hs: stop breaking me < 1313811549 214943 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see... < 1313811570 299677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it was printing just "Left" it was going to go print the inner value and then segfaulted because it was a bad pointer. < 1313811650 129310 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my theory anyways. < 1313811758 491830 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems reasonable. < 1313811871 533204 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Either Int Char) >> print "more" < 1313811876 140495 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313811879 486936 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1313811986 664401 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ?? kind? < 1313812051 530426 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what? < 1313812123 302673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) :: ?? -> ? -> * < 1313812154 733006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also once got the error "Expected kind `??'" but I fixed what I did wrong anyways, I just made a mistake which I corrected < 1313812155 997563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh uh... something to do with boxed/unboxed I think. < 1313812719 454018 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-145.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1313812719 568264 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-145.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1313812719 640356 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1313812845 349353 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1313812975 769882 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/IntermediateTypes < 1313812978 980489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about halfway down the page. < 1313812984 231785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it described the different kinds. < 1313812987 987452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*describes < 1313813059 59203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? = any kind, (#) = unboxed tuple, ?? = * or #, # = unboxed type, * = boxed type < 1313813108 289674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (#1,2#) < 1313813108 884120 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1313813151 50325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unboxed tuples can't be used as arguments. < 1313813199 736678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all functions are boxed < 1313813206 2735 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what ?? -> ? -> * says < 1313813333 616393 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think (#) is ever used outside of ghc intermediate language < 1313813493 248630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a strange unsafeCoerce that we could not figure out the purpose of in the FFI, a warning is currently emitted when it is used < 1313813496 277126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313814860 623201 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1313815812 816396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sup < 1313815813 7356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i don't think < 1313815840 26021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: good point < 1313815840 419082 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: " ben fnord" or " not provide" :) is it possible to open input port for string? < 1313815847 831827 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1313815847 904184 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1313815851 837415 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style darwin < 1313815851 909325 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) < 1313815865 444435 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how do you feel? < 1313815866 953100 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: h.j., on/ structure and origin :) this striking physical feature were those :) macculloch " 517? 2. :( geolog. mag." 1839 page 340. dr. king observed a striking instance :) adaptation be given than that :) 100 to 110. this case :) correlation is that a marriage flight is absolutely necessary with these species/ second bone :) their leg should show clear traces :) two bones having been accumulated at one spot, in so < 1313815887 31665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^speeches < 1313815898 647608 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1313815898 817872 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1313815906 336572 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1313815909 93610 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we must now repair our faults. the whole people will do the same thing to-night. " keep your old constitution," if you may run counter to all the experience of means, or make them. when the means have long been. in form, and by far the most culpable as respects slavery and the slave revolution in fnord was elected fellow of the college in october, fnord was mingled with fnord that tie which attaches every lover of < 1313815909 165416 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1313816050 950386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1313816051 22853 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1313816058 504257 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1313816219 832063 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I now have a screen that looks quite similar to static. < 1313816235 176847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: because of unsafeCoerce?? < 1313816246 310739 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lolno :P < 1313816247 542538 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313816250 604965 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because I'm implementing a CA < 1313816256 458423 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1313816351 965890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl < 1313816352 38524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z [] = z < 1313816352 110358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs < 1313817118 682111 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I can make electrons either virtually nonexistent, or ridiculously abundant >_> < 1313817161 254254 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1313817167 953105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just have them centered in stable loops. < 1313817179 167044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have those abundant or scarce < 1313817265 109528 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was drawing random circuits all over the map, then putting random electrons on it, but basically because of their duplicitous properties that caused them to spread like wildfire. < 1313817317 9783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't they just, kind of travel along? < 1313817327 616135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and duplicate on branches? < 1313817411 24765 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there are lots of branches. < 1313817435 631886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah see I would just have some pretty decently spaced out loop circuits. < 1313817449 702126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of varying size. < 1313817455 356390 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm starting to agree with that now. < 1313817466 699387 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I'm not sure what to put in the substrate. < 1313817469 591120 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1313817486 753543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1313817540 352803 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my simple-circuits method basically means that if you let an electron out of its loop, it will multiply and fill the whole world :P < 1313817560 831343 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NOTE: I just noticed there is no way to liberate a single electron from its loop, so they have to be in sets of two) < 1313817981 67118 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireworld has an electron head and an electron tail. < 1313818046 154354 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, yes, so do I. < 1313818049 24592 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1313818068 289847 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/conf1.png <-- my current initial config < 1313818447 689785 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1313818902 218659 :Pianoo!~whynow@61.184.89.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313818903 893505 :Pianoo!~whynow@61.184.89.118 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313818921 948239 :Pianoo!~whynow@207.204.228.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313818935 392702 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, much more stable initial config. < 1313819009 437949 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/conf2.png // new initial config < 1313819232 803571 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313819529 853106 :Pianoo!~whynow@207.204.228.171 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1313819855 967066 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ <-- here's the current code if you're curious (no agent interface, basically just an SDL implementation of wireworld) < 1313819876 612988 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1313819896 817462 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313819983 472849 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313820585 352487 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-5.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313820618 815066 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-5.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313821018 658836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1313821470 91346 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-5.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313821736 370288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, proggit are debating "what should a browser do if it issues an HTTP DELETE request and gets a 302 response" < 1313821765 646283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they've established that the technically correct response from the browser is "prompt the user whether to HTTP DELETE the target, or do nothing", but that's insane < 1313821766 521582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP LAUNCHMISSILES < 1313821795 786263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the second debate is as to whether the IE9 behaviour (do an HTTP DELETE on the target without prompting) or the everyone else behaviour (do an HTTP GET on the target without prompting) is saner < 1313821806 722225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IE9 behaviour deviates less from the spec, but is rather more destructive < 1313821816 537231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc, the correct answer is "don't reply 302 to an HTTP DELETE request") < 1313821876 961411 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 404 missiles not found < 1313821879 984334 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-14.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1313821925 747364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the missile should be launched by the browser, not the infidel server < 1313821968 62459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd also like LAUNCHMISSILES to work agains programs which steal focus. < 1313821972 692989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*against < 1313822009 520076 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not turn off focus-stealing? < 1313822013 939105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally try to set a really hard-line policy on focus-stealing < 1313822020 200255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even the strictest setting isn't strict enough for me < 1313822031 831240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want programs to steal focus after I open them, for instance, even though most people do < 1313822045 668547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they take a while to open and I want to be able to type elsewhere meanwhile without my keystrokes going to the wrong place < 1313822061 919287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm a windows xp user *crawls beneath rock* < 1313822068 203042 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want programs to steal focus when they are about to explode and i REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT and pretty much no time else < 1313822084 255984 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-14.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can you turn focus stealing off? < 1313822093 418638 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your window manager config < 1313822098 251962 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1313822124 879990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: not even then. you don't want to accidentally type text into an emergency window. < 1313822125 46755 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine only has two settings: no focus-stealing and too much focus-stealing < 1313822155 257275 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps "only if it is really urgent and i am currently mousing" < 1313822162 50508 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather "not typing < 1313822162 914361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1313822205 447721 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be simple to implement in practice: wait x seconds after the last keystroke to steal focus < 1313822207 705019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well assuming you are using Linux, last i used that for a desktop focusing and moving to the top were independent actions < 1313822220 425815 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1313822227 347831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they really shouldnt be < 1313822258 847037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: they _must_ be to avoid the problem we are discussing if you also want windows to be able to pop up in emergency < 1313822266 25864 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing-in-focus should always be on top < 1313822298 179738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i recall that the ability to type into a non-top window when you wanted was _extremely_ convenient. < 1313822304 26369 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that when it steals focus it jumps to the front and makes you really aware SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED < 1313822331 442828 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much never use that ability oerjan < 1313822358 445585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :more often i get annoyed that the window i want (which is in focus) is hidden by another window < 1313822372 201653 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda breaks the desktop metaphor < 1313822381 532966 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't write on the bottom page of a stack of papers < 1313822423 569859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to read one window and use the information to write into another, then it's extremely convenient for the window you read to be able to be larger < 1313822448 148456 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, if the top page fills your desk, anyway, and i run most of my windows maximized) < 1313822473 16278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i never run maximized. < 1313822486 401385 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im wacky, tiling < 1313822495 983156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i have carefully placed my browser so that i can still see if something is happening in irc behind it. < 1313822496 489824 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it monqy < 1313822503 343120 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm??? < 1313822516 873019 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like a job for translucency ;) < 1313822519 563111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while still having the browser as large as possible < 1313822521 571707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1313822535 720668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _that_ would surely annoy me immensely in a browser :P < 1313822550 249564 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been tiling for a few months over two years I think < 1313822552 613358 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1313822570 757500 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is tiling < 1313822580 942707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: horrible stuff < 1313822582 375986 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i use a tiling window manager < 1313822590 289130 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1313822596 948939 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh i'm p cool with that < 1313822646 713660 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it helps that I'm widescreen, prefer keyboard over mouse control < 1313822680 254389 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i use the fact that i can't see irc while doing other things to increase productivity. i have pop-up notifications if i'm pinged. < 1313822702 886682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i once ran irc on one screen while trying to work on the other. you can guess what i ended up spending most of my time on) < 1313822704 798794 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313822723 278598 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup evincar. how's Rath this time of year? < 1313822812 266880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right you wacky people and using your computers for serious stuff < 1313822882 112654 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The weather sucks. And I guess the war's still on. < 1313822899 266385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, me not being able to set up irssi and putty to make pinging by visual bell work properly (i also have all sounds off by default) < 1313822925 349527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and also me wanting to see what's happening even if i'm not being pinged, i guess < 1313822975 645285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :war? < 1313822995 892583 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was making a reference to Magic. < 1313823002 925428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1313823026 816712 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my name, though actually unrelated to MTG, is superficially related to it. < 1313823134 981107 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"superficially" meaning "MTG stuff fills the first page if you search 'evincar' on google" < 1313823153 500420 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm thinking of making little concatenative language where, nominally at least, the one datatype available is a cons-list. < 1313823155 140430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aware it was an MTG term < 1313823160 140837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the MTG people made it up or not, though < 1313823170 742871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of their terms they do, some they don't, and some are somewhere in between < 1313823175 733282 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I've told this story before. < 1313823184 222456 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so exciting. < 1313823186 301939 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was completely oblivious as to it not being an original name :'( < 1313823189 2779 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you -magic the search, someone comes up named "anthony evincar murray" on facebook < 1313823211 225488 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole thing is "Evincer of Autumn", but I spelled it with an "a" because I was a dork, but it stuck. < 1313823223 274210 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally unaware of the Magic relation. < 1313823244 197191 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to be "he who evinces (brings forth) the autumn". < 1313823249 410808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: well cons-lists are perfectly workable stacks < 1313823265 138241 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be "évincer"? < 1313823294 86357 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's my thinking. Then optimise the shit out of things so that it uses numbers/strings/etc. where applicable. < 1313823316 773301 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I really don't like the distinction between compile-time and runtime, so I think macros are going to be an implicit optimisation as well. < 1313823332 795022 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just give functions and macros the same syntax. < 1313823335 624566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to remember what "evince" means, other than the name of a PDF reader < 1313823345 93999 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bring forth. < 1313823351 499518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1313823355 433225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a weird name for a PDF reader < 1313823384 935489 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." < 1313823392 881438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well PDF is based on postscript, which is stack-based. so clearly it's about forth. < 1313823395 90708 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: implicit optimisation? eh? < 1313823408 39388 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you mean it'll do inlining of functions? < 1313823419 608377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that an insightful observation or a bad pun? < 1313823421 238289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both? < 1313823421 844744 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's actually "to show clearly" which makes more sense < 1313823426 539863 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yeah, it's not that exciting. Almost exclusively implicit optimisation is the idea though. < 1313823440 910546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: calling them "macros" is a bit off < 1313823448 720976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mostly the latter < 1313823449 220203 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: where them is functions which happen to get inlined < 1313823453 51402 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Right, "reveal the presence of" being yet another synonym. < 1313823472 889465 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most common definition actually < 1313823481 535818 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1313823497 404899 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing about bringing forth anywhere i've seen < 1313823515 667232 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being a little loose with the definition. < 1313823520 717208 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgive my thirteen-year-old self. < 1313823526 824157 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgiven < 1313823539 717727 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but clint eastwood may not be so lenient < 1313823576 536043 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(side note: i thought that clint eastwood had never directed any bad movies, but i just saw The Eiger Sanction (1974), and it turns out i was wrong) < 1313823584 791978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1975 < 1313823593 730715 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The point is that functions are given in terms of macros (i.e., rewrite rules), not the other way around. < 1313823600 167026 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to say inline function = macro. < 1313823637 500651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: hm what was the name of that language, i saw it mentioned again the other day... < 1313823643 715851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something on F < 1313823647 530622 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language? < 1313823665 825369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :implements functions as a special case of fexprs < 1313823676 361696 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You poor bastard < 1313823692 697448 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Not Factor, though that's at least similar in concept to what I'm up to. < 1313823719 997100 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: i take it you've seen it? < 1313823726 73020 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_-_ < 1313823741 710476 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: i think The North Face stole some plot ideas from it >.> < 1313823741 782847 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY CLINT WHY < 1313823748 221645 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313823818 563150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it wasn't fythe, that's gregor's < 1313823854 118237 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clint Eastwood. Old West action. Antidote scowl. No two dialects. Acid onto welts. < 1313823863 328067 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love anagrams. :) < 1313823903 954186 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Do geese see God? < 1313823910 178159 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palindromes are better. < 1313823924 460815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it refuses to show up in a google search < 1313824028 578867 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Sure are. < 1313824040 49556 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What, the language you were thinking of? < 1313824052 120479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313824067 714360 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tell you it doesn't matter, but it's gonna bug you nonetheless. < 1313824069 216248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(programming_language) < 1313824075 86877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was linked from Fexpr < 1313824145 99066 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1313824208 128396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :palindromes are self-anagrams < 1313824210 648808 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to make stack manipulation transparent and intuitive in a prefix language. < 1313824226 802222 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the whole "dup", "drop", "swap" thing. < 1313824260 746966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds tricky without introducing variables < 1313824265 325659 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would almost prefer, say, $0 (x) = (x x), $1 (x y) = (y x y) etc. < 1313824287 799435 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and variables are sort of the Big No when it comes to concatenative programming. < 1313824306 382172 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering you'd like everything to be point-free and purely compositional etc. < 1313824381 396142 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess since my sole data type is the stack, you could easily manage as many stacks as you want. < 1313824412 690649 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be possible to introduce nice sugar for variables based on that premise. < 1313824432 492799 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too messy. :P < 1313824569 91289 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also like to restrict I/O sanely, so I'll probably have to set up something resembling Haskell's monadic I/O. < 1313824617 304740 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could think outside the box. < 1313824671 764176 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unboxed thinking < 1313824677 697462 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, my first thought was to place effects in a queue or digraph and apply them by need. < 1313824695 177027 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the cleanest way to do something resembling that is monads, so far as I can tell. < 1313824718 447516 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: You don't need to call it "monads" unless you generalize it like Haskell does. < 1313824729 908313 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why wouldn't I generalise it? < 1313824750 274969 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalisations make for useful, powerful tools. < 1313824766 250664 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1313824978 723663 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"His central objection was that, in a Lisp dialect that allows fexprs, static analysis cannot determine generally whether an operator represents an ordinary function or a fexpr — therefore, static analysis cannot determine whether or not the operands will be evaluated. In particular, the compiler cannot tell whether a subexpression can be safely optimized, since the subexpression might be treated as unevaluated data at run-time." < 1313825091 827110 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the obvious route here is not to reject fexprs, but to add special functions for retrieving the unevaluated arguments. If the function contains these, do not evaluate the relevant argument. If it does not, evaluate it. I imagine this is what 3-lisp was thinking? < 1313825125 405389 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1313825162 636111 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could go the other route, and have an operator that forces an expression to produce a value. < 1313825178 494813 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, you're introducing another axiom. < 1313825192 782262 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the one hand, implicitly quoting arguments. < 1313825194 853359 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have stuff like 5/0 evaluate to _|_ instead of erroring? < 1313825197 101690 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1313825215 733761 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other, an operator for using eager evaluation in an otherwise lazy language. < 1313825216 660014 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was thinking in static optimization terms < 1313825262 482939 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"which expressions is it safe for the compiler to optimize by evaluating or partially evaluating" is the prime question < 1313825275 833301 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the point is that you can't know, for any given expression, whether there is a context in which evaluating it would produce a value other than the immediately obvious one. < 1313825317 652591 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a stack-based language I'm not sure. < 1313825323 163175 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NB: I'm going with prefix syntax.) < 1313825335 866410 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/ 5 0) seems fairly safe to evaluate to bottom. < 1313825365 567320 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you only have one stack, does the problem magically become decidable? < 1313825372 745725 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, is Lisp the problem? :P < 1313825383 424831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know. i'm only speaking of lisps < 1313825444 772224 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inthert pun here < 1313825448 872081 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: get naked < 1313825476 988442 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Speaking *of* Lisps, not speaking *with*...nevermind. < 1313825499 705538 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not sure how you speak with more than one lisp at once. < 1313825506 711627 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a conventional one and a lateral one. < 1313825509 775069 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor you. < 1313825524 668728 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to do that ties my tongue in knots < 1313825579 783733 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With enough parenthetheth, I can get amathing thingth done.~ < 1313825581 642260 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, a lateralised interdental fricative? < 1313825582 502907 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to design a puzzle maybe < 1313825587 750065 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds awful, but it can be done. < 1313825611 553491 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me look like a cat about to have a hairball. < 1313825637 936374 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't produce enough air at once to steer large enough quantities in both directions for both to be heard < 1313825655 309924 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm known for being good with my tongue. < 1313825681 937272 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes cricket sounds. < 1313825693 846223 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, phonetics, beatboxing, that sort of thing. Eating individually packaged yogurt when there's no spoon available. < 1313825704 802385 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do all that stuff < 1313825718 835382 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with pudding, not yogurt < 1313825772 1881 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I do it with all the usual creamy things you ordinarily handle with a spoon. < 1313825782 839670 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do a voiced unvoiced plosive fricative. < 1313825791 807441 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches evincar's tongue implode. < 1313825798 427711 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm normally quite a cunning linguist, but my ability to produce compressed air in constant pressure streams is limited < 1313825816 127091 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a supersoaker pump for a diaphragm < 1313825819 123349 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Not to mention coarticulating voicing with unvoicing. I would need two sets of vocal cords. < 1313825820 973566 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNVOICED SEMIVOWELS, GO < 1313825827 989187 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait...I could use the false vocal cords like a metal singer. < 1313825829 825548 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could work. < 1313825832 396058 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAND BACK < 1313825846 992486 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, can't do it while laughing. < 1313825850 798084 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plosive fricative itself might be difficult. < 1313825851 940021 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT EASE < 1313825864 858461 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ithkuil.net < 1313825876 335540 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: meh. standard snare drum. < 1313825898 121193 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That's an affricate. < 1313825928 899412 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The old version was more phonologically interesting, but people thought it was "hard" < 1313825950 808332 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I don't like philosophical languages. < 1313825966 158879 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor logical languages. < 1313825986 411611 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I've read some of this site. < 1313825995 755515 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: does a labial fricative count. i can fricate the right side of my mouth while popping the left < 1313826001 569919 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: You're no fun :P < 1313826095 176515 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: FSVO fun. < 1313826136 33890 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time I read "FSVO" I parsed it as "Fucking Subject-Verb-Object". < 1313826136 531792 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conlangs are either philosophical or (native language)-derivatives < 1313826157 249090 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is very little variation on that front < 1313826195 282628 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "I learned just enough Sanskrit to be dangerous" < 1313826224 753024 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the conlangs that are *literally* designed for shits and giggles are interesting, at least. < 1313826230 687262 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. There are plenty of a priori languages that are naturalistic without being derived from any natural language. < 1313826249 115767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really ceased being interesting, *serious* conlangs probably by 1950. < 1313826267 566037 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That's because Esperanto's such a trainwreck < 1313826281 784986 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Links, plz < 1313826284 919549 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which time the space of "languages I can expect people to actually *learn*" got mined out pretty well. < 1313826302 962883 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, not plenty, but enough. Quenya, Sindarin, Klingon, and Na'vi are all naturalistic without being based (in terms of vocabulary) on natural languages. < 1313826329 216423 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, fuck the word "Na'vi" and its use of what I call the Dread Apostrophe.) < 1313826337 507220 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tolkien doesn't count because the last of the Brandywine weed gives you magic powers :D < 1313826358 932437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Friggin' apostrophe. < 1313826377 434670 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if that represents an actual phoneme. < 1313826387 117494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: apo'strop'he < 1313826399 762498 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Glottal stop, one assumes < 1313826404 73640 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dread Apostro'phes, Dread Accënts, and Dread InterCapitals all denote shitty inexperienced fantasy authors, in my mind. < 1313826408 971351 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's apparently a glottal stop. How the *fuck* are you supposed to pronounce that there? < 1313826427 42719 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Say "nah", pause, say "vi" < 1313826434 648621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Not a glottal stop. < 1313826437 799352 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Like a Cockney saying "Natvee". < 1313826445 377797 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1313826451 786767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Huh. That actually works. < 1313826458 309272 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can actually pronounce it correctly. < 1313826468 751899 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY, LOOK. THIS. < 1313826471 835662 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, phonetics proves useful. :P < 1313826475 429801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no idea that you could do glottal stops before consonants. < 1313826477 559778 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS. < 1313826492 889530 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THI'S. < 1313826505 683513 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Try Arabic or Farsi < 1313826505 849922 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Dread Apostrophes etc. are only actually Dread if they're meaningless, inserted at random to look more "fantastical" rather than according to a reasoned system. < 1313826510 701894 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All sorts of that < 1313826522 424149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. I'm willing to excuse the apostrophe if it's an actual phoneme. < 1313826523 781221 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: A glottal stop is just another sort of consonant. < 1313826530 254597 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably a glottal stop. < 1313826534 521963 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as an English speaker, you say all kinds of complex consonant clusters all the time. < 1313826554 342067 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Russian has the best consonant clusters < 1313826561 23101 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in my mind, it has to denote a glottal stop or palatalisation. < 1313826570 794058 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case it's more like an accent mark, which is fine. < 1313826579 363148 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, but my mental conceptions of what's pronouncable by humans and, somewhat more importantly, what's pronouncable by *me* has little to do with what's actually pronouncable. :) < 1313826597 197723 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: My family is Polish. I know. < 1313826606 378264 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313826606 641102 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Fair enough. < 1313826628 481434 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I seem to overestimate the difficulty of consonant clusters. Which is strange, because English is quite consonant clustery. < 1313826631 14667 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish is actually quite a bit more difficult for me than Russian. < 1313826633 972931 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start pronouncing all my apostrophes in English as glottal stops < 1313826638 1500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less so than Russian or Polish, but hey. < 1313826642 922497 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make me distinctive :D < 1313826657 604849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Oh, yeah, another valid use for apostrophes. < 1313826660 48710 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contraction! < 1313826668 510844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does not really apply for most conlangs. < 1313826670 516873 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Have you tried Hungarian or Icelandic? Those are fun < 1313826671 475066 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It'll make you sound like a Klingon. "I'll not go. I won't." < 1313826686 856019 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I + glottal stop + syllabic L is awfully rough. < 1313826714 913169 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although for some reason I undo the Vowel Shift in my mind when reading that. < 1313826717 734322 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: "It'll" but Cockney? < 1313826718 143165 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's part of it. < 1313826756 293363 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glottal stop with multiple contractions would be fun. "I'll've" < 1313826774 692466 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Actually, I make a point of including contractions in any conlang I start on that resembles a European language, even just phonetically. < 1313826785 577352 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, but you're abnormal and have a clue. < 1313826797 487979 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cluelang < 1313826807 307613 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daww. How kind. < 1313826823 36554 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Numberlang. < 1313826875 891991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite *unlike* the fantasy writers making their semi-conlangs by throwing phonemes together in a euphonious or cacaphonous manner, and making the orthography look alien. < 1313826896 560624 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nx'hll'aztl'wat < 1313826910 197581 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for English speakers, includes diacritics and apostrophes. < 1313826915 285333 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: The moment I see "tl", I think of Nahuatl. < 1313826917 341079 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means "bear" < 1313826933 693628 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: That makes me smile < 1313826945 156318 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an unusual phoneme is all. < 1313826958 862942 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xocolatl < 1313826959 948864 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: And, presumably, "a" means "that thing I saw last week, but only in a vagueish way, that might have been a bear, but might have been my long lost brother who I haven't seen for 20 years." < 1313826978 843190 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Clearly. < 1313827034 909426 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike languages that cheat by having overly specific lexica < 1313827058 450273 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Natural languages have overly specific lexica. < 1313827062 664449 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least English certainly does. < 1313827073 352180 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's dauntingly much nuance. < 1313827076 853113 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: In lines with my "a" example. < 1313827081 32539 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1313827097 925631 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. specific to the point of being unusable. < 1313827127 787997 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, "usable" is open to interpretation. < 1313827130 797030 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.k.a. "Eragon syndrom" < 1313827133 502193 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syndrome < 1313827162 987752 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really I just like to trash that book because it's a simple "Star Wars + LOTR" formula < 1313827167 164573 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does one typically see things, last week, vaguely, that was either a bear or one's brother who has been missing for 20 years? < 1313827197 845625 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I dunno if you've seen "Alex Reads Twilight", but I was going to do something similar on my vlog with Eragon. < 1313827199 618400 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt it's common enough for a language to make it a lexeme, much less an astoundingly short one. < 1313827219 270785 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Sounds delightful. Link? < 1313827236 966743 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't started yet. youtube.com/whyevernotso < 1313827244 340846 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I dunno. I'm pretty unattentive, and I have been alive long enough to get some use from that lexeme < 1313827244 507126 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I haven't done a video all summer. < 1313827339 777060 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wary of this silence. < 1313827345 549487 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It implies you're watching my videos. < 1313827378 233935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now ponders a fantasy character named D'Rëad < 1313827392 295754 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Is that a dorm? < 1313827413 589906 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you look like someone I'd hang out with D < 1313827414 284849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, my bizarre Japanese orthography could do a passable job as a lame fantasy author's conlang. < 1313827415 642314 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:D < 1313827446 104974 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-14.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: point made, none taken < 1313827449 629805 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soriȳa hì'kuri ni hen mitai ne. < 1313827468 590081 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Your othography terrifies me < 1313827471 322292 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I have done videos from a dorm. < 1313827475 207886 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*orthography < 1313827478 439286 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My latest ones were from an apartment. < 1313827484 144519 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice < 1313827484 787938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It's a naive encoding of kana. < 1313827528 470067 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, the apostrophe has meaning. < 1313827534 150617 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I never bothered making my own idea of kana. I just learned what the syllable was and pronounce it like a drunken anime character < 1313827541 392598 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently my accent is "unterrible" < 1313827577 772013 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Sokuon? < 1313827584 442827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1313827591 218278 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Your school looks like my old one :D < 1313827608 442375 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only value you could give to apostrophe for Japanese that's not utterly absurd. < 1313827629 656519 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only sane choice < 1313827635 529148 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it is still a bit odd. < 1313827640 442114 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO, HOLY SHIT, YOU ARE ALSO FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE AND HAD DIALUP < 1313827654 195582 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1313827665 508205 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO WHAT YOU ARE AT MY OLD SCHOOL < 1313827676 894385 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: WHAT IS YOUR HUB HANDLE? < 1313827726 839185 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, shit, you went to RIT? < 1313827736 564378 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: ISF, biatch! < 1313827737 669375 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been on the hub lately. I prolly used evincarofautumn. < 1313827760 944780 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDD, you are not even a reeelz programzorz lololol < 1313827787 811268 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the weirdest coincidence < 1313827788 866234 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in GDD. I was in NMDI, then NMID, now Multidisciplinary Studies. < 1313827812 82593 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only studied design because I was already good at programming. < 1313827816 390376 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long have you been there/ < 1313827818 641848 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1313827821 200819 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm looking to do a PhD in CS. < 1313827825 267553 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going into my fourth year. < 1313827829 276864 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1313827833 206814 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might know each other < 1313827834 452794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1313827851 397795 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look kinda familiar < 1313827852 903225 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my name's no secret. < 1313827875 76476 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know most people by name though. Terrible with names. < 1313827878 628282 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent with faces though. < 1313827883 697862 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same < 1313827885 867973 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION develops mancrush on evincar after reading everyone call him fucking awesome in his comments page. < 1313827894 950336 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we have no mutual friends on Facebook :( < 1313827898 242724 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I *really* need to make more videos. < 1313827922 872647 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I don't have a lot of Facebook friends as Why. < 1313827935 243315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a freak dimensional accident, Dr. Ëa'D's machine attracted the fierce barbarian warrior D'Rëad. < 1313827943 647187 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent most of my time at RIT smoking cigarettes, doing Ritalin and doing my own thing instead of what I was supposed to be doing < 1313827948 707101 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I'm a math major now < 1313827970 767363 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Quick, call Dr. Acula < 1313827991 435526 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. I spend most of my time at RIT programming, drinking caffeine, and doing my own thing instead of what I'm supposed to be doing. < 1313828004 192770 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get Dr. Amamine in here, stat < 1313828018 81956 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Why, you're 3/4ths of the way to a CS Ph.D. already. < 1313828035 873696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313828056 105547 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You're gonna have to explain that one. :/ < 1313828064 200578 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar reminds me of what i wanted to be < 1313828066 476119 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I stayed in my room and did math all day instead of going to boring C++ classes, then I drank myself into a stupor at night and continued doing math < 1313828072 633742 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISF is a terrible major < 1313828074 140303 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not really. < 1313828078 610045 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks the soul out of you < 1313828111 690272 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, spending my time programming rather than doing busy work is essentially how I plan to carry out my PhD. < 1313828118 147184 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The other 1/4 is stealing a hair from the head of Donald Knuth < 1313828130 925189 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, shit, I forgot to tell you guys. < 1313828141 54532 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found my old issue of MAD that has that one article by Knuth in it. < 1313828147 885757 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever meet him, he is so signing that shit. < 1313828150 908538 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :an article by knuth???? < 1313828158 991850 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1313828160 999868 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I recognized that room. And I knew I recognized the name evincar from somewhere < 1313828175 424744 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Potrzebie System of Weights and Measures" < 1313828201 915900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im personally a fan of spy vs spy.. < 1313828203 924928 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that makes it notable is that it's the first thing he had published, in 1960. < 1313828236 704910 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 1957. < 1313828249 341001 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, first "scientific" thing. < 1313828255 621447 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, Knuth. < 1313828266 958064 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I doubt many copies of this issue remain. < 1313828305 886100 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Spy vs. Spy is the best thing. < 1313828331 830356 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, shit. Time for MST3K and sleep. < 1313828336 391587 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that definitely needs a Knuth signing. < 1313828345 856579 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read up on antonio prohias.. his escape from cuba.. his former comics about siniestro < 1313828346 877302 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, evincar… where in New Hampshire? < 1313828364 39692 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Southwest, near Keene. < 1313828368 967242 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1313828384 657570 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, don't tell me you're from NH. < 1313828385 615604 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lived in Plainfield, forever, and I live in Lebanon now when I'm not at school < 1313828395 777538 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is too strange. < 1313828418 62832 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313828420 730641 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, right? < 1313828426 844964 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went through a stage of thinking spy vs spy comics were evil.. until i learned they were written with a deep cynicism < 1313828492 450632 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think they were? < 1313828521 144 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1313828526 835682 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway they're great < 1313828542 514567 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1313828546 615235 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just evil. < 1313828548 282153 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw depth. It's MAD. < 1313828588 775578 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also studied the origins of the alfred e neumann face < 1313828618 217061 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some theories say it is an archetypal figure from our collective unconcious < 1313828630 699201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some, i suppose, do not < 1313828648 538187 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^newman? < 1313828652 612590 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: So are you not at school at the moment? It's still weirding me out that you could be like an hour and change from me. :P < 1313828669 484082 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I transferred out of RIT. I go to UVM now < 1313828675 314428 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean now < 1313828678 951389 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, in NH < 1313828684 710125 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm in Lebanon right now < 1313828694 689559 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this very moment < 1313828703 800173 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiver with the knowledge that I am among you < 1313828743 155966 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we need to discuss things quivering with other things among yet other things. < 1313828763 991553 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a setup for a romance novel scene right there. < 1313828780 465609 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get a few drinks in you and we'll see what quivers~ < 1313828786 449166 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UVM is nice anyway. I know a couple of people who go. < 1313828798 90910 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My stats professor recommended it < 1313828809 802209 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a so-called "public Ivy", so that's nice < 1313828889 129526 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiver (verb) "to tremble," late 15th century, perhaps onomatopoeic, or possibly an alteration of quaveren, or from Old English cwifer-, perhaps related to cwic "alive". < 1313828939 60170 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *What*. "What is Islamic Fundamentalism" is the title of an H-manga. < 1313828948 478120 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe < 1313828957 166297 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title is not inappropriate. < 1313828965 536598 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Link? < 1313828967 141107 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it is a H manga at all < 1313828975 98312 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I don't want the link. I can't decide. < 1313828985 897428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: http://g.e-hentai.org/g/19551/32e1252c7c/ Quick Googling gave me this. < 1313829000 822906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nsfw) < 1313829001 820932 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of that Obama one < 1313829003 571481 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like the whole point of FRP is to reconcile functional languages with the fact that things, in the real world, so far as we can tell, occasionally, ostensibly, happen. < 1313829019 282928 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Neighbor Taro-kun or something like that < 1313829061 479813 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds extremely dodgy so im not clicking < 1313829095 419958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It features Osama bin Laden *and* George Bush. < 1313829112 81553 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a random OFC. Defeating Islam via fucking. < 1313829113 296899 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1313829116 683394 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: WHERE'S YOUR SENSE OF ADVENTURE < 1313829116 860312 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck, Japan. < 1313829129 107266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaoi? < 1313829130 345208 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That's how it's done < 1313829138 542491 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No. < 1313829139 884258 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you seen C-SPAN? < 1313829143 688888 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: OFC. < 1313829161 790368 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats OFC? < 1313829168 877634 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original Female Character. < 1313829173 305248 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1313829181 697864 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those initialisms that tells you the fanfiction's going to be more bad than usual. < 1313829212 71929 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HER NAME'S ENOBY, OKAY < 1313829226 733364 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-B that name reminds me of ebony < 1313829234 849917 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBONY'S NAME IS ENOBY, OKAY < 1313829236 870468 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1313829256 483827 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, this got extreme pretty quick < 1313829266 346604 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those attached to a car battery? < 1313829273 580268 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have to loudly make fun of that thing. < 1313829276 310872 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I remember it. < 1313829280 444846 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of fanfiction, that reminds me, I really should read "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" sometime. < 1313829290 848483 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1313829296 355813 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds exquisite. < 1313829310 356049 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written by Eliezer Yudkowsky. < 1313829338 755579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may know him for Less Wrong, the Singularity Institute, and being the most hardcore autodidact) < 1313829381 477742 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im proud of myself for simply knowing the word autodidact < 1313829394 227152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple amusements < 1313829453 874620 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the best kind. < 1313829488 800093 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer complex amusements. < 1313829492 731744 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More imaginary parts < 1313829504 93887 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myself, I'm fond of stars. Reading. Hot cocoa. Sex. Bonfires. < 1313829523 644306 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Perhaps you could do with some quantum mechanics, then. < 1313829527 381951 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good company and body heat, a roof over my head and shoes on my feet. < 1313829538 123757 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want all those things @_@ < 1313829538 818927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that has many complex components. < 1313829543 783488 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all at once! < 1313829553 739027 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to New Hampshire. :P < 1313829557 597455 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ lambdabot wut wut < 1313829557 670089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambdabot wut wut < 1313829582 246069 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ > (2+2) < 1313829582 319433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : > (2+2) < 1313829586 985772 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1313829666 877209 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, time to sleep. More precisely, time to brush my teeth before my mum wakes up to go to work, then sleep. < 1313829677 900395 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Exactly. < 1313829687 14188 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To a tee < 1313829687 279495 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such is life with the family. < 1313829690 894264 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so < 1313829699 783230 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad I have an apartment for a year in Burlington, now < 1313829705 646689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @run @_@ 2+2 < 1313829705 719102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "_@" < 1313829711 596105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313829721 736145 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are aware that I am now going to have to meet you. At some point. < 1313829723 982476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_a < 1313829724 55666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do faq ft id map pl rc v wn < 1313829725 656708 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, in a public place. < 1313829743 60335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@a@ < 1313829746 236840 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Sounds like a plan < 1313829748 475456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@a@ test < 1313829748 548719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1313829765 72566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ test < 1313829765 145167 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1313829768 35302 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it sounds nothing like a plan. A plan would have specifics. < 1313829769 158774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! < 1313829780 2200 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh. < 1313829784 753975 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-165-105.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: Up up and away! < 1313829796 595478 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I go back to school in six days. < 1313829802 621305 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, leave then < 1313829823 221401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@b ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1313829823 301632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug . ? @ v < 1313829829 530126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1313829867 586345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ @run (2+2) < 1313829868 166480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1313829884 257044 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1313829901 680002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW (the george bush page in the h-manga): http://213.231.57.133:60000/h/95cf82ddf8554beb6eda06d54add6197aec6163d-249227-984-1400-jpg/keystamp=1313829908-c514da5196/18.jpg < 1313829936 372414 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again im not sure if such links will work < 1313829965 213949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason why they shouldn't unless the site is taking steps to prevent it < 1313829984 878927 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked, it just took forever to load < 1313830034 60292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ @_@ test < 1313830034 132229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "_@" < 1313830039 229830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ @@ test < 1313830039 303281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1313830042 609849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1313830060 823261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error correction only appears to the top one < 1313830120 991448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applies < 1313831083 681549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313831365 336024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313831428 415934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@listchans < 1313831428 488671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :##freebsd ##logic ##manatee ##proggit ##villagegreen #agda #arch-haskell #darcs #dreamlinux-es #dtp2010 #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc # < 1313831428 561734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gp2010 #happs #haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-freebsd #haskell-in-depth #haskell-infrastructure #haskell-overflow #haskell-soc #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.dut # < 1313831428 561848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell.es #haskell.fi #haskell.fr #haskell.hr #haskell.it #haskell.jp #haskell.no #haskell.ru #haskell.se #haskell_ru #hscraft-srv #jhc #jtiger #learnanycomputerlanguage #lesswrong #macosx # < 1313831428 561922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #teamunix #unicycling #uscs2010 #xmonad #yi < 1313831441 397887 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's so popular. < 1313831464 414027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*she < 1313831490 334132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of going with "It", but it looked wrong. Is there an official gender, though? < 1313831505 518700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Are you female? < 1313831505 595062 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313831533 988701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From /list: < 1313831534 72303 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Channel Users Topic < 1313831534 144385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : #scannedinavian 1 bladecenter for sale... < 1313831541 827765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1313834245 92097 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1313834522 855427 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Quit: bye < 1313834794 129000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1313838390 410929 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1313840363 53069 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313840963 781107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1313840977 235834 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1313841644 989674 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.tkjelectronics.dk/2011/08/glasses-free-3d-display-for-microprocessors/ < 1313841658 331402 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for a 3d GOL < 1313841732 432570 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI for trifunge plz < 1313841898 479174 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THREEE DEEEE < 1313842213 1935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Are you really female? < 1313842213 101056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really real < 1313842221 636385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Are you really really female? < 1313842221 710623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really real < 1313842244 482254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen How many fingers am I holding up? < 1313842244 621563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll hafta plead the fifth on that one. < 1313842344 490233 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is @vixen < 1313842357 540772 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen What is love? < 1313842357 658604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's to say? < 1313842479 352253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Maud? Is that you? < 1313842479 455971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about me? < 1313842502 710180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Maud! < 1313842502 783645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever killed a hobo? Ive found eating their liver gives me strength. I think i may just be short on b vitamines. < 1313842512 16645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen You've changed. < 1313842512 91245 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where on a map is Panama? < 1313842529 744327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen You always were terrible at geography. < 1313842529 900224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :always always, or just most of the time? < 1313842538 813190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Always always. < 1313842538 887386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :always always, or just most of the time? < 1313842547 789361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen You just said that you idiot. < 1313842547 911952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1313843703 420339 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster NICK :Vorpal < 1313843783 43304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what /is/ @vixen? Markov chain? Eliza style bot? < 1313843796 792188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1313843806 353547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen What manner of creature are you? < 1313843806 435474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i am < 1313844417 351101 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An old Visual Basic program ported to Haskell, I believe. < 1313844442 892988 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some regexp matches with a bit of randomness, or something of the sort. < 1313845032 924114 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: OK, so my flag idea isn't going to work :P < 1313845315 850286 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Or rather, neither will, as accidental duplication is going to happen all the damned time. < 1313845401 9763 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1313850140 881931 :elbento!~fortuna@ppp118-209-135-202.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313850184 638665 :elbento!~fortuna@ppp118-209-135-202.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net PART :#esoteric < 1313850795 983706 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1313850810 807427 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of stupid language enters a code block, but doesn't exit it? < 1313851263 927842 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1313852038 907080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, infinite loop? < 1313852044 451111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside said block < 1313852051 929286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be during execution I guess < 1313852069 747338 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, nginx configs < 1313852107 445633 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :location / { foo; location /bar/ { baz; } quux; } < 1313852116 927554 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :either baz or quux get executed. < 1313852142 398664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. what < 1313852162 738010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used nginx < 1313852173 909275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be the currently hot httpd though < 1313852180 788482 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea it's good < 1313852183 64659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fame of lighttpd was short-lived < 1313852192 888416 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lighttpd seems to have deteriorated < 1313852194 968963 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why < 1313852208 966995 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're having stupid problems letting people write plugins or something < 1313852257 769023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, I seem to remember getting php to work with it was a bitch. And although php is horrible, it is popular < 1313852266 229510 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck php < 1313852279 631115 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, if you're forced to work with php, you're not a good computer programmer < 1313852321 990684 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i flat out stopped doing php and i'm doing well. python might not be just as popular, but at some point people stop asking what you're doing your job with. < 1313852372 102463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hate both < 1313852384 698250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to do web programming if I can avoid it < 1313852386 290638 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is less easy to hate < 1313852410 505698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, cpython is bloody slow. pypy and so on are not much better < 1313852414 811490 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either, if this business lifts off i'll hire some code monkeys and start studying cell biology or something. < 1313852429 251829 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackless and pypy are much faster than cpython < 1313852456 873421 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :uwsgi supports stackless, and i think it will do pypy at some point too < 1313852490 544683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, yeah but I compared a program with cpython, pypy and cython. Cython beat cpython by and order of magnitude of course. It beat pypy but about 5x < 1313852501 525900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure C beat all of them < 1313852508 614849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was that of playing reversi. < 1313852516 26894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :computationally intensive yes < 1313852516 333619 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1313852522 474173 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm never wirting a line of C in my life < 1313852526 572732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, so even pypy is slow < 1313852531 4408 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how is that a comparison < 1313852542 74310 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you compare C with fpga's? < 1313852544 564213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, of course C is not fun to code. I agree on that. < 1313852560 702077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, nah, I didn't have one available. And VHDL is quite annoying < 1313852589 30260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't know verilog) < 1313852610 345372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, anyway, while python is slow, it is also not a nice enough language to justify the slowness < 1313852615 868823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather use scheme or something then. < 1313852623 236380 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then your test prefers simple to use, sluggish, popular blubs < 1313852637 616402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, hm? < 1313852640 895508 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1313852652 736515 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is soooo slow < 1313852653 241843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed C was a nice language < 1313852667 664755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, I'm not using speed as the sole argument here. < 1313852676 582882 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you understand. < 1313852684 423675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, what I'm saying is that python is not nice enough to justify the slowness < 1313852694 979063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather go for a functional language then < 1313852696 757594 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different argument < 1313852701 856591 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1313852717 36911 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem with functional languages is that their stdlibs are fucking shit for the job i'm doing < 1313852726 195608 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the dev environments are still not figured out < 1313852747 377708 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are no good frameworks that save me from doing billions of lines of boilerplate < 1313852755 649479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, no it is not a different argument. The first was stating a fact: python is slow. Then I said that this slowness is compounded with a language that is imperative and not very good. < 1313852762 998277 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is the best of the worst < 1313852779 15962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that while it is nicer to code in than C, definitely, it is not worth it < 1313852875 981112 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :once someone makes a direct translation table of everything you can do with python's stdlib to everything you can do with haskell's stdlib, i'm all over haskell. < 1313852927 880707 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right now it would be mostly empty. < 1313852931 20827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that my hdds are the bottleneck when transferring files between my computers nowdays. Gbit ethernet. < 1313852944 864213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :once the ram fills up, well. < 1313852945 20617 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what data rate do you have? < 1313852957 393158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 40 MB/s with plain rsync < 1313852976 819229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is larger than the ram of this laptop < 1313852981 140296 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hdd speed is a bitch < 1313852991 301568 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope they come up with something faster and failure-free < 1313852993 864502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, encrypted disk in the laptop too < 1313853002 537550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, SSD, sure. But expensive < 1313853014 988018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too expensive currently < 1313853017 281670 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know people who've been buying a lot of ssd's and didn't managed tp buy one that didn't die on them at some point < 1313853025 162372 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manage < 1313853040 749918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, depends on how you use them. Mostly read will be fine. < 1313853050 377020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the firmware could fail and so on < 1313853107 303490 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i think it was just flat out dead < 1313853115 503469 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm no expert < 1313853130 531158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, well what in it failed. write limit? < 1313853160 583446 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anymore. not a big enough fan of ssd's myself. < 1313853169 581090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, they are fast though < 1313853185 529757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some are. Intel ones definitely < 1313853185 643096 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe the consensus was that ssd's are not reliable on the long term < 1313853197 536656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, nor are hdds < 1313853206 505043 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had few hdd failures < 1313853209 167227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, long term? Go clay tablet < 1313853209 965958 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have lots of hdds < 1313853251 871695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :most hdds I owned died at some point < 1313853257 948053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the current ones obviously < 1313854040 678402 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313854044 879326 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of all things.. < 1313854053 641740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1313854054 119966 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't have thought i'd find a job through *freecycle*. < 1313854065 226118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1313854082 209472 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mailing list, with an instance that is local to every city < 1313854095 375230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, in the world? < 1313854098 978801 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have something that you don't need, rather than throw out good things you put it on the mailing list < 1313854117 358258 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pretty much so, except everyone sets up their own. < 1313854123 219257 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a concept than an organization. < 1313854133 179703 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got some good stuff there. < 1313854179 461487 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i picked up a pressure cooker and a cable finder. turns out the woman works in it, and i told her i'm a computer programmer, and today she wrote me saying she knows someone looking for a programmer. < 1313854222 826648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, who wouldn't have use for a working cable finder... < 1313854226 101678 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get all sorts of stuff, usually it's furniture, followed by electronics and then books. < 1313854397 239185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Someone who has multiple? < 1313854400 633669 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, change committed: http://i.imgur.com/jXB9V.png < 1313854406 222822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why would anyone have that in the first place < 1313854428 779701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gotten as a gift, maybe? Ours came from my wife's father, I think. < 1313854439 878962 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or found a fancier one and wanted to upgrade. :p < 1313854445 424564 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or found one in pink.) < 1313854609 767029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Freecycle list in Espoo, but there's one in Helsinki, with a total of 8 items (3 wanted, 5 offered). It doesn't have much of a following here. They do have physical "recycling center" places here and there, though. There's one at the student village of the university, for example. < 1313854650 989175 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2010365 < 1313855053 918960 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313856605 207585 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1313856616 362933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: unless you have electron geysers that are stationary, with the rest of the field being empty. < 1313856625 936718 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonjour! < 1313857062 572935 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in France < 1313857136 486897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in one of those states where all that segregation stuff happened. < 1313857153 640241 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Alabama? < 1313857162 605701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close. Georgia. < 1313857238 427702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Georgia started a prison reform experiment where people who were thrown in jail for not paying taxes were giving a fresh start in the New World. < 1313857241 730819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as a < 1313857250 637730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to Australia I guess. < 1313857282 585173 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Australia they weren't given a new start till they had filled out their sentences < 1313857533 670710 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a really cool idea for an esolang < 1313857541 543542 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy I can't wait for my data structures class < 1313857546 237889 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I realised someone else already had pretty much the same idea. < 1313857551 921707 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :They called it HQ9+ < 1313857566 619394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get to learn about exciting things like trees! maps! sets! heaps! linked lists! < 1313857569 830125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo < 1313857572 941044 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1313857585 168 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What actually is a heap? < 1313857604 735566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to a tree. < 1313857609 866477 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1313857641 931820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the root always being the max element. < 1313857665 245727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all child nodes are < parent nodes < 1313857725 267265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I believe you can implement heaps as arrays < 1313857914 317771 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... 9 (4, 5 ( < 1313857921 918125 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 1 1)) < 1313857925 56153 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a valid heap? < 1313857957 536476 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1313857958 584428 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1313857984 741842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has nothing to do with the heap in memory management, which confused the hell out of me.) < 1313857995 864605 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how is Handlekindled getting along? < 1313857999 840817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, didn't know. < 1313858002 145616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I gave up too. < 1313858033 825903 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's elliott's problem? < 1313858056 405920 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is *always* the problem. < 1313858511 659368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitpicking time! It's only a max-heap where child nodes are < parent nodes; you can have min-heaps too. < 1313858566 180287 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313858568 496199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also -- or can be, anyway -- a complete binary tree, so that's why the array representation makes sense. < 1313859041 177986 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also be prudent to mention what a (max-)heap can do, which is O(log n) "remove largest element" (while keeping the heap property for leftovers), which is why you'll find them in priority queues around the world. < 1313859227 349006 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that's useful. < 1313859566 500059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1313859980 925310 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever go to Saudi Arabia < 1313859993 826263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing I'd do is eat a big pork sandwich in a crowded street. < 1313860053 15784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while looking distinctively American. shorts, t-shirt, baseball cap, and shades. < 1313860218 566842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing could go wrong. < 1313860321 25086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7zip is somewhat retarded. I extracted a tar.gz with it. I got the tar out. I would have expected it to both in one go... Sure technically it is correct, but it is the sane behaviour? Not really < 1313860321 134498 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313860379 980258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides that means an extra copy of the huge tar... < 1313860514 533130 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313860559 930256 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a clever ploy by the 7-Zip folks that aims to make you switch to using .7z files everywhere, because it's so "complicated" to open those strange .tar.gz files. < 1313860577 85481 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Guess.) < 1313860579 312960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313860724 372685 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can "7z x -so blah.tar.gz | 7z x -ttar -si", but that's really crummy. < 1313860815 620078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm is it possible to make a .so load on demand, first use so to speak. There is obviously dlopen and so on, but I was thinking about something more transparent < 1313860828 555731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :say for example loading libpng or libjpeg only once you open such a file < 1313860978 894040 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't lazy binding (which does pretty close to that) already happen by default on linux-elf? < 1313861010 640806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :skype sure is buggy in linux. < 1313861052 545480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dlopen you get to decide (RTLD_LAZY vs. RTLD_NOW) but I think lazy binding is the default for "regular" dynamic libs. < 1313861202 871908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that still opens the .so on starting though I think. It just doesn't bind the symbols until needed < 1313861207 891821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1313861254 629123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as man ld says that seems to be it < 1313861256 150389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it does try to find all the libraries the program links to. But it's arguably better to get "missing libraries" errors at that point as opposed to middle of some operation. < 1313861289 530973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just finding it without opening it maybe < 1313861312 597468 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know. Possibly it also looks at the headers to make sure the file makes sense. < 1313861349 46233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess it mmaps the file, but on linux that may or may not load the file at that point < 1313861456 243778 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I've looked at the dynamic linker very closely. It might make more sense to open, read+parse the header fields, and then mmap (at that point or later) the actual load-requiring segments according to the segment header. < 1313861519 843422 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when it hits the first aritrary foo() that comes out of a dynamic library, it's going to (potentially) have to look at the symbol tables of all the linked-to libraries, to find out where "foo" comes from. < 1313861593 608348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't think the symbol table of the binary contains any explicit information about which library the symbol is referring to. < 1313862059 355244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last few weeks there's been visible a full-signal-strength (well, as closely as the network lister dialog indicates, anyway) wlan with ESSID "AirPort Network". Smells like a close neighbour has bought some Apple hardware. (There's another new one called "zuHause", but I'm not sure if one can deduce anything out of that one. Perhaps a German invasion?) < 1313862109 633366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it won't have to look at all. There is that .hash or .hash.gnu section < 1313862125 748601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to check those < 1313862210 300932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zuHause just means atHome in german < 1313862225 76565 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That amounts to looking. The hashing is just a way to look faster. < 1313862266 430730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, if a German feels "at home" here, then we're apparently at a very advanced stage of the invasion. < 1313862277 955910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think. < 1313862303 3249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this time in history you should be more worried about greeks, i think. < 1313862365 142258 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Americans it's those sandpeoples in the middle east that you need to fear. < 1313862385 259235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am talking specifically about the finns, here. < 1313862425 13695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about, uh... sandpeople in the middle east. that's as specific as it gets. < 1313862441 703942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1313862463 205423 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : With dlopen you get to decide (RTLD_LAZY vs. RTLD_NOW) but I think lazy binding is the default for "regular" dynamic libs. // this isn't lazy /loading/, it's just lazy symbol lookup < 1313862487 156485 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll start worrying when I see an στοΣπίτι wlan. < 1313862490 373154 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: HURR! HURR HURR HURR! < 1313862498 524227 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Star Wars < 1313862505 189622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: what? this is serious business. < 1313862518 133578 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: TUSKEN RAIDERS ARE TOTES SERIOUS < 1313862519 997485 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: THE ELECTRONS! < 1313862525 942264 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: THEY'RE MULTIPLYING OUT OF CONTROL! < 1313862535 99947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ an/ a/ I suppose. < 1313862537 182672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: don't place conductor randomly, see above. < 1313862545 499223 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I place conductor intelligently. < 1313862547 487946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty field, randomly placed electron geysers, kind of spread out. < 1313862550 814158 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But all branches = dups < 1313862559 499370 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Totally empty field is laaaaaaaaaaaaame! :( < 1313862566 532761 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That wasn't laughter, you see, it's the noise they make. < 1313862580 592342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally empty field means that the only thing that's important is your game plan. < 1313862617 557953 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: See, I was thinking of modifying my building mechanism so that you have to collect raw material :) < 1313862624 50685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: working around randomly (er, I mean, intelligently) placed conductors is a hassle. < 1313862647 704120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a possibility then. But using conductor as the raw material is probably not a good idea. < 1313862830 440519 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Blank default config is so boooooooooooring :'( < 1313862877 399760 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-236.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313862888 182568 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-145.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313862894 783077 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Y'know what, I'm inclined to use your flag idea instead of mine. < 1313862912 858548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably because it's the bomb-diggity < 1313862916 25553 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Your flag idea + my carefully-made substrate = no duplication. < 1313862922 776480 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, no out-of-control duplication. < 1313862939 281158 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: as a vanilla wafer, I often have trouble focusing on anything but my starchy composition. < 1313862977 884284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-236.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1313862991 7595 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear milk helps with tha < 1313862992 308159 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1313862992 630818 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-236.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313863004 758741 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem- Gregor: I'm interested to see if you can make a configuration that's not a electrical clusterfuck < 1313863033 774640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, probably shouldn't have any conductors touching flags by default. < 1313863047 693395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say sparser distribution = better. < 1313863050 591435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure vanilla is a suitable VLSI substrate < 1313863052 513277 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Solaris dynamic linker seems to have an lazy-loading system like you wanted. It sticks a custom "lazy" flag in front of all the dependencies in the .dynamic section, and then those libraries are actually loaded on the first call. < 1313863066 997652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with a maximum limit for the "length" of a single wire/circuit < 1313863076 544605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent overlap of circuits < 1313863082 778303 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of course no conductors touching flags is the default, and believe me my current one is not an electrical clusterfuck. < 1313863115 303705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can figure out it's still going to go through all lazy dependencies when looking for a "foo" it couldn't find, though. < 1313863125 801083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sauna-time, away.) < 1313863149 806290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever write an OS environment < 1313863157 373825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will name my equivalent of libc heroin < 1313863170 687386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it will be highly depended upon. >_> < 1313863256 894412 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, snap < 1313863292 369942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that sounds of speechlessness. < 1313863330 246572 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what not? how do you move on from here? < 1313863362 487024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be tough, reorganizing your life after the single most important event in its development. < 1313863372 247120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an early climax in your own personal novel. < 1313863405 373788 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1313863427 82806 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting wafery again < 1313863435 75873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the pieces of a puzzle they may never become whole. < 1313863471 74959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it was made by some shitty factory with mostly former criminals and high-school dropouts as employees. < 1313863481 51436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/they/that/ < 1313863577 264368 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a normal factory < 1313863679 375857 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: the wafer is just a recursive subset of something greater. A small microcosm of our saccharide existence. < 1313863704 259456 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a DACHGESCHOSS. < 1313863722 939211 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Everything makes sense now < 1313863741 859067 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, Unicode DACHGESCHOSS character: ^ < 1313863755 30951 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally < 1313863855 761733 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I dunk it in milk it becomes pregnant with my lipid thoughts. < 1313863881 2485 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does anyone here know shit about biology? < 1313863899 802308 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need some good books on cell biology < 1313863910 663030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any good books, no. < 1313863913 719451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: the internet < 1313863926 682193 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have that but it fell behind the cupboard < 1313863928 751316 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Here's my current starting configuration: http://codu.org/tmp/config.png < 1313863953 862940 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is that? < 1313863960 493038 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettty < 1313863981 404988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the stable loops are disconnected from the wires? < 1313863982 694262 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: More importantly, an electron let loose on the wire won't ever start multiplying out of control. < 1313863984 998004 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. < 1313863988 375674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun. < 1313864010 945715 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, zu hause is a quote from a song < 1313864014 214458 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes the landscape important to decision-making but not chaotic from the start. < 1313864019 24121 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy can tell you which one < 1313864034 260924 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: CakeProphet and I are designing a game where you write programs to functions as agents in a wireworld-like substrate. < 1313864035 878920 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I'm sure it's in many songs, really < 1313864061 992169 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you get nice configurations each time or is that the only one < 1313864065 666279 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when used as a description of target. < 1313864069 98365 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: was that config automatically generated? < 1313864071 719386 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugggghhhh I have to pack next week < 1313864074 339157 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's generated randomly if that's what you mean. < 1313864077 130533 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes, it's random. < 1313864088 325589 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, geh' doch zu hause! < 1313864190 766834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it rather complex to discern what happens as the result of wire placement < 1313864240 415266 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can already tell...my game will be better < 1313864247 951756 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: My only determination is that it doesn't multiply out of control (which MAY be a lie, since I'm not sure if I can randomly form loops) < 1313864316 393611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, never mind, that's right. < 1313864318 697346 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't form loops. < 1313864332 87465 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you unleash a single electron into the substrate, it will always dissipate. < 1313864402 616619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking electrons should go at the same speed as agents. < 1313864425 891791 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually starting to think that as well. < 1313864430 925328 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although lightspeed agents = zomg < 1313864438 461379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you need to have the flag electron work differently that a normal electron. It only moves one space by consuming an electron < 1313864454 827956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, zu hause is a quote from a song <-- why are you telling me? < 1313864458 296358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can still be destroyed somehow < 1313864469 914284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, in fact, what is that about < 1313864476 972013 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do agents have to recharge? < 1313864484 62534 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Even if agents can move at the same speed as electrons, they can't catch up with one ... < 1313864488 254260 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ... no? < 1313864502 452930 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you were asking if zuHause means anything other than german invasion. < 1313864504 853430 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's your answer. < 1313864508 77900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, no < 1313864509 691530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not < 1313864518 65180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, you confused people < 1313864523 108928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :check your damn scrollback < 1313864526 385336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so maybe it makes more sense to have the flag particle carried forward one space via one electron pulse < 1313864549 855905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as this makes the flag move somewhat slowly < 1313864560 191790 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think that makes defense too easy. < 1313864581 353073 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. < 1313864587 810268 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe :) < 1313864594 447694 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language are these agents programmed in < 1313864602 214055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Any. < 1313864631 993813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have to a) be aware that the flag is stolen b) find the flag c) know which direction the flag is going d) destroy a conductor in front of it < 1313864660 265142 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough ... < 1313864678 338381 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the game is 2 player CTF? < 1313864679 258099 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313864679 814583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone in here played oblivion? < 1313864696 179345 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeah < 1313864698 169559 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Err < 1313864706 525809 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Two-player is not determined, but CTF is :) < 1313864744 146712 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1313864752 336991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile the offender may have set up decoy wires, wire branches, etc < 1313864760 633424 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so offense is still simple as well. < 1313864762 264425 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1313864823 68439 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Client Quit < 1313864858 127569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so currently there's not really a resource gathering dynamic < 1313864868 25009 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, that vanished :P < 1313864870 667464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first step in my mind would be to find the opponents flag as this gives you an immediate advantage. < 1313864946 27602 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We could add back in the resource management dynamic by changing from my conductors potentias system probably. < 1313864955 624069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :next would be to scout around for loops and pathways, and find one to connect to their flag without making it immediately obvious that you're doing that. < 1313864962 677967 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres like a function "am i standing on the flag?" and thats it? < 1313864988 875293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have a "read" instruction most likely, that gives you information about your current location. I doubt it would consume a turn. < 1313864996 610668 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1313865000 580836 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, you have a radius of vision, you can build conductors, you can break shit, and you can move. < 1313865002 937932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn = some kind of action other than reading cell info < 1313865004 364476 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1313865334 368767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. Any questions? < 1313865555 202459 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313865582 481039 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1313865809 322084 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313866055 572057 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the new YouTube Music which we're forcing you to see in a giant bar on the top of your YouTube page! Genres -> lol no music was written before 1920 you guys! < 1313866056 335735 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866163 879329 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight! < 1313866381 588547 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-236.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, presumably, lol no music exists that's not on top 40 radio. < 1313866382 219025 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866421 298205 :Taneb!~taneb@ALille-152-1-42-84.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313866481 925198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that, lol no music is argle bargle. < 1313866482 178026 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866486 867965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1313866499 967889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone is _so_ busted < 1313866605 380242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lol whatever. < 1313866629 165337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe, lol no in any case. < 1313866629 248657 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866645 81331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol no < 1313866645 250263 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866700 40783 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, usually there's an amorphous "classical" genre that's sparsely populated with only the most well-known composers whose surnames begin with the letter 'B'. < 1313866702 845313 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they don't even have that. < 1313866733 572795 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most well-known pieces by such B-named composers that is. < 1313866899 472790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what no M < 1313866906 642788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, lol no M < 1313866906 810131 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313866996 674865 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine and I have a game where we try to guess who the composer of a piece of music is. You're allowed to guess two letters as the last initial. But if you choose 'B', you can't choose another letter :P < 1313867006 37482 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I played it a little bit. < 1313867303 125422 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313867406 765777 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So shall I start working on the agent interface? < 1313867406 996174 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes. what do you think Scrolls will be like? are you excited? < 1313867455 759978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: whatever you want to do. < 1313867478 764085 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dood, this is a TEAM EFFORT < 1313867480 235982 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most well-known pieces by B-named composers? you mean symphonie fantastique? < 1313867527 213108 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Several of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos plus Air on G, everything by Beethoven, and a few things by Brahms. < 1313867549 216254 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no Berlioz? sad day < 1313867557 56385 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, i don't expect anything by Boulez) < 1313867591 872761 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Berlioz??? Dude, he's not even German. < 1313867598 468170 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to say < 1313867604 718307 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Everybody knows that what tiny amount of music existed before 1920 was entirely German. < 1313867607 167065 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only austro-germans count, obc" < 1313867658 303371 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to listen to Bach's Air on G :P < 1313867671 747827 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity then, that the letter "B" does not include Strauss and Wagner < 1313867693 918923 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well Strauss is fucking terrible, and Wagner insults my Jewish heritage lol :P < 1313867711 82071 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. JEW! < 1313867712 801289 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313867733 817757 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv i meant richard strauss, not johann < 1313867735 264913 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you mean Richard Strauss, who deserves to be the one people think of when you say "Strauss", but usually isn't) < 1313867736 908369 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh < 1313867737 499340 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1313867789 628572 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, we all know that Richard Strauss doesn't show up on general musical radar. < 1313867796 931221 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because his surname doesn't start with a 'B'. < 1313867797 716023 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i suppose the "german" restriction rules out Bedrich Smetana < 1313867813 176214 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only surnames < 1313867815 430642 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too then < 1313867823 863965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Scrolls? What scrolls? < 1313867862 733646 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: scrolls.com < 1313867895 723916 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about scrolls.com/ < 1313867901 810468 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about scrolls.com? < 1313867988 359679 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where it tells what scrolls will be < 1313868176 803239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked. It doesn't help. I don't know. Insufficient information. < 1313868209 596035 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree. enough to be interesting? < 1313868256 844875 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1313868324 604952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, Mojang Scrolls? < 1313868361 548698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crappy card game BUT ON A COMPUTER? < 1313868366 424352 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: perhaps. if they lose the the battle in the arena. < 1313868378 192718 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also don't diss on crappy card games. some people here like those. < 1313869518 959780 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1313869785 565062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313869814 639934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-236.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313869849 455808 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313869942 127023 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to YouTube's sticky music bar, Lady Gaga has a song called "Yo and I". I believe she's introduced a new element into English orthography, namely the retard mark. < 1313870304 55957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1313870369 557824 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313870403 634960 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1313870443 833029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1313870468 589027 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrr < 1313870549 439252 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:19:41: USBCT < 1313870555 181388 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :united states bitwise cyclic tag < 1313870558 310519 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:43: also, randomRIO is an incredible hack, but I see why it exists < 1313870562 16916 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it a hack < 1313870651 255203 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:32:12: I have Google's "ngrams of 1 billion words of interweb text" corpus, it's got a unigram list followed by count, wouldn't be too tricky to make a relative ranking of first letters I guess. < 1313870659 930854 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, could it be put into fungot somehow, or does it not have any similar type of data? < 1313870660 976166 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: my fnord into normal life was a painful and difficult process. the loss of his handkerchief as he fumbled in his blouse pocket to see if there might not be caused by the unwise cutting of fnord near the shore and guard the fnord against possible reinforcements for curwen until summoned by a final emergency signal. < 1313870676 557382 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott__: my fnord into normal life was a painful and difficult process. [...] < 1313870678 571605 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: but isolated parts of bodies. he had himself well under control when that hideous thing pulled him out of the plant's effective radius. at night the conference fnord without having developed a definite plan, but all the peasants and police in county fnord could never have fnord the black galleys. one of them seemed especially portentous because of its poverty in beauty and delight. this night shalt thou know the favo < 1313870680 416552 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :608) elliott__: my fnord into normal life was a painful and difficult process. [...] < 1313870686 670808 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : united states bitwise cyclic tag // the best bitwise cyclic tag. < 1313870973 417666 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: Theoretically it could, though in practice it would need some work. It's far too large to work directly in fungot as a model. I could feed the ngram counts to the VariKN toolkit I've used before to get a reasonably sized approximation, but it would need some glue (unless the format happens to be compatible) and I'm not sure if our machines are big enough to handle it. (Depends on how memory-wastey VariKN is. The 5-gram datafiles take 6 DVDs.) < 1313870974 653327 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whose source he could only mutter over and over again through those eons i whispered and muttered, called, shouted, and screamed, " warren, brace up! i'm coming down!" but at this moment over the roofs of strange dead cities toward the grinning chasm of nis, it is nevertheless too definitely insipid for greatness. here again we have shadowy intimations of a vast forest dmon about which north woods fnord whisper at even < 1313870986 750953 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1313870986 822767 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1313870990 610533 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice :P < 1313870992 859670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sure. < 1313871005 200987 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is five the maximum number of grams Google offers? < 1313871017 192261 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1313871205 954664 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it'd need some glue to handle the punctuation, which in fungot-land is handled as separate tokens. I'm not sure what the Google set does. < 1313871207 732449 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he would have fallen to the pavement had he not clutched instinctively at the fnord door when clouds are thickest. and patriarchs dread lest some day one by one to their respective homes, which they hastened to do with his premature flowering. an only child and the radiant pair, but by dawn realised how silly i had been careless enough to leave a strong odor even at this extreme superplateau altitude. in other places th < 1313871302 989759 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:56: Wouldn't it be extra-magical if sort worked so that if you give {...$a...$b...} it uses the value of that as the comparison result, but if it's just {...$a...} with no refs to $b it would apply that to each element and compare those results with <=> or cmp, whatever the default sort uses? < 1313871309 470562 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please; some of us have sensitive dispositions. < 1313871314 827869 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, my scrollback is damn indeed. < 1313871319 538005 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be so "Perl". < 1313871329 475372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems they're different tokens for Google data too, but the names would have to be converted (either pre- or post-VariKN, depending on how picky that is w.r.t. token formats) to fungot's format. < 1313871330 227356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when we had followed the doctor fnord only the smooth concrete underneath the ice, which was nearer norrys' couch than mine. he seemed fnord of motion, but stood quiet as soon as i had done with the other islanders had got wind o' what was gossiped abaout cap'n obed an' the dogs was barkin' en' fnord' the life out..." < 1313871359 439112 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But just think: fungot will finally start spitting out AVERAGE INTERNET. < 1313871359 897130 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: this paper held much of a rage as he seemed to be setting down a history of my own age. they fnord me a fnord < 1313871363 596948 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm TERRIFIED. < 1313871405 50497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :After "in the recent events", the possible next word according to Google is either "," (93), "." (159), "and" (43), "at" (46), "in" (219), "of" (74), "that" (44). < 1313871525 384945 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite average internet because Google has filtered out all n-grams that have a frequency < 20. So it's... only the likely parts of average internet, with the off-the-mean parts excised. < 1313871545 227598 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a script here somewhere that does basically fungot babble directly out of the Google corpus already; it's a bit slow (all the ngrams were just dumped into a PostgreSQL database, and then it executes a query against it for each new word) but works. < 1313871546 274893 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gables to drag listless down the years while voice by voice the laughing chorus grows stronger and wilder in that unknown antarctic world of disordered time and alien natural law make it imperative that further exploration be discouraged. yet i hesitated only for a very few were the skulls of supremely and fnord developed types. all the party fnord rang tremulously. those who took down their fnord heard a fnord voice sh < 1313871607 337297 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's... more average internet than the irc corpus. < 1313871608 669899 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:51:17: ais523, that seems... inefficient. < 1313871627 880998 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hash functions are constant time and the kind used for hashtables are pretty damn fast < 1313871635 886426 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, they're integers < 1313871640 55975 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there isn't even any hash overhead < 1313871653 163349 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reduces to basically identical if you just have (machine-word) integer keys. < 1313871667 273286 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that there's also a modulo. < 1313871707 355400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should change your name to __elliott__ and then you'll be special in Python. < 1313871716 119179 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:54: CakeProphet, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BANCStar_programming_language < 1313871716 191877 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth does it have a Wikipedia article? < 1313871723 937400 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.229.26 NICK :elliott < 1313871730 272425 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason "esoteric programming language" does. < 1313871732 391493 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.26 QUIT :Changing host < 1313871732 463722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313871733 919358 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, you'll draw the exclusionists to it < 1313871747 995020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's not what exclusionism means < 1313871749 779182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean deletionist < 1313871753 164733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Exclusionism) < 1313871754 148558 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1313871772 771746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Exclusionism&oldid=504276 <-- better version < 1313871783 322842 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is possible to be an inclusionist and an exclusionist at the same time." < 1313871786 758521 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminology failure < 1313871805 102458 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way that one can be an anarchist and a fascist. < 1313871805 535219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As we all know, language is completely logical. Therefore ... < 1313871817 25829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : why on earth does it have a Wikipedia article? <-- no clue, first hit on google though < 1313871821 413066 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more importantly, people subscribing to ideologies are completely logical. < 1313871825 238716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Wikipedians_Who_Dislike_Making_Broad_Judgments_About_the_Worthiness_of_a_General_Category_of_Article,_and_Who_Are_in_Favor_of_the_Deletion_of_Some_Particularly_Bad_Articles,_but_That_Doesn%27t_Mean_They_Are_Deletionists < 1313871831 733402 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They could've chosen their terms better < 1313871832 580608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice logo. < 1313871835 906463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even SVG. < 1313871836 253795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google Books based corpus, incidentally, is publicly downloadable at http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/datasets -- but that's "average book", not "average internet". < 1313871849 787465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As is well-known, "books are for fags". Therefore... < 1313871877 302154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the Internet is for porn. < 1313871901 689236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you shouldn't put it into fungot. < 1313871902 227032 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on the seventh of may, 1765, curwen's only child ann was born; and was fnord to me as it struck out wickedly from the spaces behind and beneath. < 1313871913 270376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can cfunge even _handle_ files that big? Maybe that would slow it down. < 1313871918 957654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have to switch to Shiro. < 1313871925 131548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of this page is far too long. Why not shorten it? -- 92.10.89.238 18:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC) < 1313871935 720358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :insights from anon. < 1313871961 317718 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im applause < 1313871982 526025 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't actually load the files, it just reads few bytes here and there and seeks around. But the file offsets in the data structure are limited to something like 2^28, so it can't handle files bigger than 256 megabytes. < 1313871991 412748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer METAFONT for scalable logos rather than SVG though, I invented a program to make it colors and special effects < 1313871997 872192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Who's fault is that? < 1313872001 996337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't tell me it's Riley's. < 1313872005 182344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll cry < 1313872006 231628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1313872046 815684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:12:45: can imaginary time even be played? < 1313872046 982430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:12:49: you'd have to convert it to temperature somehow < 1313872047 54338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperature? < 1313872054 604801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fungot uses cfunge? < 1313872055 554145 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: suddenly i rose, put on my hat and coat, and they all tried to force me to cross it boldly and fnord imitating the typical fnord of the fnord fnord leaving behind a caution against the bearded allen, to which the race had hewed its way through the ruined and abandoned halls and towers of the old carter place, they found more easily planned than fnord since no sign of consciousness for sixteen and a half < 1313872057 625381 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ultimately mine -- I could've used more than 4 seven-bit "bytes", after all -- but I suppose he's a contributory cause, since it'd be 2^32 (4G) if the corresponding fingerprints had specified whether it reads signed or unsigned chars. < 1313872062 167622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you didn't complain violently? < 1313872068 638641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My Human Gets Me Blues" by Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band features a "complex time signature."[115] < 1313872072 469618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, close enough. < 1313872079 123222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who says I haven't? < 1313872093 320561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1313872094 18295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1313872102 103402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It _used_ to be RC/Funge. < 1313872107 604902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge is... probably an improvement. < 1313872109 608764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have started complaining < 1313872113 117671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never stopped < 1313872127 441890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI didn't support the relevant fingerprints at the time, right fizzie? < 1313872159 891667 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mmmmpossibly. At least when I started with RC/Funge. I don't really recall the cfunge switch so well. < 1313872198 462651 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do have this SMS corpus too. It's a lot smaller, and then fungot would sound like your regular SMSer. Here, let me just quote 5 first randomly picked messages of it. < 1313872200 305280 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: their mastery of dreams? was i to hear a faint, fnord rhythm or vibration in the darkened next room. he assumed that these things were hackneyed spectral lore, and i only, know what manner of men could have existed was none the less existing in a very crabbed and archaic hand; and though still walking on automatically, resigned myself to the inevitable. another moment and i had to, dan! she'd have got me for good she'd < 1313872203 858109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Juz nothing special lor... They juz cut like straight across lor... < 1313872206 760200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All e best 4 ur driving tmr :-) < 1313872210 77385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I duno leh, any suggestion i should cut wat. Then u got any place in mind where 2 cut? < 1313872214 299337 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfdsf < 1313872222 250093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey lien... U took e finance survival kit oso huh.. I juz read ur email... I'm takin it oso! < 1313872223 519767 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the main reason was "not compiled here" syndrome + CCBI being too much of a pain to compile ;-) < 1313872239 911239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing Shiro only depends on ONE EXTERNAL LIBRARY. For now. < 1313872245 420150 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a standard way to express an arbitrarily large or small integer in binary such that the |n| is log(abs(n)) in the representation (like how balanced ternary is)? < 1313872256 67350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Balanced ternary? < 1313872257 753660 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which one's that < 1313872268 316301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh my god yes add that to fungot. < 1313872269 922277 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr. hoadley disappeared soon after fnord this was in june that blake's diary told of his safe arrival, and of somewhat brawny frame, he was at the gateway of a region fnord through the hypnotic suggestions of the dragging of his body seemed sore and bruised. when he complained, and longed to escape into twilight realms where magic moulded all the little vivid fragments and prized associations of his mind as an opener o < 1313872304 299058 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only has like 10117 messages though. < 1313872326 76233 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He say dun tink they need part timer...How? U go crepes n cream ask la...Hereen 1..." < 1313872330 568272 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: balanced ternary requires three digits. i'm asking for a binary system. < 1313872351 656416 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm crepes n cream < 1313872391 987250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Balanced ternary digit → two binary digits, Q.E.D. < 1313872400 407865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of impossible numbers there though. :p < 1313872405 423295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't care it sounds amazing. < 1313872412 616398 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't sound very standard < 1313872486 81589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:17:31: that could be remedies by complex numbers and quaternions! < 1313872486 248275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:17:34: *remedied < 1313872486 320933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:17:56: and whatever the 3-component one is called. < 1313872486 321095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there three-component is quaternions < 1313872488 520127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]the < 1313872496 525403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313872544 399298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean three-components not including the integer part right? < 1313872641 85288 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played D&D game a character who is wizard but has no spellbook (such as, it got lost, you sold it, you left it somewhere else for some reason)? < 1313872641 334530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were invented trying to add another component to complexes, IIRC < 1313872645 435919 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/William_Rowan_Hamilton_Plaque_-_geograph.org.uk_-_347941.jpg < 1313872651 693755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamilton knew that the complex numbers could be interpreted as points in a plane, and he was looking for a way to do the same for points in three-dimensional space. Points in space can be represented by their coordinates, which are triples of numbers, and for many years Hamilton had known how to add and subtract triples of numbers. (This is trivial.) However, Hamilton had been stuck on the problem of multiplication and division for a long time. He < 1313872651 766222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : not figure out how to calculate the quotient of the coordinates of two points in space. < 1313872654 606719 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-component? < 1313872655 525056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1313872670 353823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And here there dawned on me the notion that we must admit, in some sense, a fourth dimension of space for the purpose of calculating with triples ... An electric circuit seemed to close, and a spark flashed forth." < 1313872695 754359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yourstruly: oasjas < 1313872703 177757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:38: CakeProphet: I wanted to make so-called biomes so you would need to find a good spot. < 1313872707 587019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it Minecraft yet? < 1313872712 485390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there three-component is quaternions < 1313872718 255534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: s/there/the/ < 1313872720 522602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's snark. < 1313872723 258192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's A Bit More Complicated Than That™. < 1313872726 622679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's snark. < 1313872744 349541 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :™ < 1313872753 535553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy™ < 1313872772 607253 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It became substantially less Minecraft than it was at its Minecraft height. < 1313872803 916500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did? < 1313873082 457050 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The competitive-programs-on-a-CA-map game that CakeProphet and I are making (CakeProphet being the unwilling forced participant :P ) < 1313873093 430095 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I have dubbed Rezzo, by the way. < 1313873111 547963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hmm, it's a concept I've always been suspicious of. < 1313873130 742378 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suspicious of"? < 1313873138 364781 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no I enjoy making games. I just don't have much time to commit to implementation. < 1313873141 888895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspicious that it won't work. < 1313873157 178456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: still I could probably do something in the future. Like write naive test players. :P < 1313873200 260290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I might branch the server program and add more rules to test those out. < 1313873206 110920 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To be clear, only the environment is a CA, the agents are outside meddlers. < 1313873220 108449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1313873243 241376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagined them as pointers on a grid, similar to BF, but I guess Gregor intends to give them a vision radius. < 1313873243 991492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that changes things. < 1313873274 512259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably makes playing much much easier. < 1313873284 473855 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My intention is that they have a location, can see an area around that location, but can only affect exactly that location. < 1313873291 318294 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1313873312 50609 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if we ever include walls it would make sense if they could affect adjacent locations. < 1313873317 549413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to destroy walls. < 1313873335 442134 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1313873352 610979 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, viewing your location should be called "look" < 1313873367 467753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :movement should be controlled by north, south, east, west, northeast, southeast, northwest, southwest commands < 1313873379 877382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and building should be done with "build" < 1313873389 404637 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: My thought was that you'd just have your surrounding area barfed at you whether you wanted to or not :P < 1313873390 247212 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it will be a pseudo-MUD. :P < 1313873404 422194 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A MUD where you must do a command 15 times per second...? < 1313873409 236127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1313873417 101461 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in MUDs when you change locations you autolook. < 1313873442 732481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :l, b, n, s, e, w... for short < 1313873472 467399 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought was that at the beginning of every "frame", the server shows you your surrounding area, then you have until the end of the "frame" to tell it what you want to do (which it acknowledges), otherwise your default action is nop. < 1313873497 653605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble mumble this silly SMS corpus is in some forked 8-bit character set. There's a lot of 0xDC where (from the context) I'd assume "I", and 0xFC where I'd assume "you". < 1313873506 700311 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess that's reasonable. < 1313873529 15782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'd say if every command is received for a frame then the server could go ahead. < 1313873533 841712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... why would you need an abbreviation for "I" :P < 1313873541 704855 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Suresure. < 1313873557 400874 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe it's a "special" I. (Like all these message-writers are quite "special".) < 1313873565 775574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not GSM 03.38 either, that's a 7-bit thing with some multibyte nonsense. < 1313873572 202381 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's . < 1313873580 978022 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : am so col! < 1313873632 75679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe it's "we"? < 1313873676 816165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no compose key. < 1313873708 390330 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some 0xEC and 0xE8 in less obvious contexts. And some others. "It's only $140 ard... rest all ard $180 at least...Which is price 4 2 bedrm ($900)" < 1313873712 23195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The README doesn't say. < 1313873741 525032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ಠ_ಠ < 1313873778 622592 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, they have a newer version too, with 28k messages. Maybe I'll use that instead. < 1313873818 729689 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Margle blargle "free registration". < 1313873824 492405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help ive got an email about GLFWPipe help < 1313873831 210143 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my plasma sword and I'm ready to CRANK IIIIIIIT < 1313873839 920345 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help < 1313873840 916995 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: obviously the best language of choice to represent a massive mutable CA is Haskell. < 1313873849 301478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its from remi a french student interested in haskell :( < 1313873854 716382 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: SORRY ALREADY WROTE IT IN C < 1313873862 614814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH NOOOO < 1313873862 769328 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which happens to be the best language for LITERALLY EVERY PURPOSE. < 1313873869 360374 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this bad it sounds bad < 1313873884 744925 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes I'm comfortable with C < 1313873895 833046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not the BEST language for literally every purpose... < 1313873899 316762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just A language for that. < 1313873945 644342 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Customer Type (How do you describe yourself): [ ] Inventor, [ ] Business Development, [ ] Company, [ ] Investor, [ ] Enterpreneur. My Interest: [ ] Life Science, [ ] Interactive Digital Media, [ ] Physical Sciences, [ ] Multidiscliplinary." You're asking some awfully silly questions here, form. < 1313873948 900210 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats sarcasm help < 1313873985 407288 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a company. < 1313873991 382802 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Literally - every - purpose. < 1313874004 545397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll be a multidisciplinary inventor today. < 1313874013 798294 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: except for sanely dealing with parametric types. < 1313874030 208835 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being a good language for literally every purpose < 1313874060 163557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C with templates" would be nice. < 1313874067 893537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, without being C++ < 1313874072 52119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using macro hacks. < 1313874142 48134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C with templates that aren't macro hacks and tagged unions that aren't struct hacks" < 1313874148 139475 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this name is starting to get lengthy. < 1313874158 333204 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only c were haskell < 1313874160 52269 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only.... < 1313874184 610105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just needs to be C with templates and tagged unions < 1313874201 724010 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe typeclasses. :D < 1313874251 393583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you could techncially implement typeclasses in C by passing around dictionaries to every typeclassed function.. < 1313874256 777084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what Haskell does internally. < 1313874293 152353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying you can technically implement something in C is kind of an inane point. < 1313874360 971789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, C with Lisp-style macros. < 1313874363 30690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well. < 1313874365 355574 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be good. < 1313874391 899153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just implement templates as a special kind of macro. < 1313874446 16585 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates as in c++ style templates or templates as in template haskell style < 1313874553 552648 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ < 1313874558 325537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :generics. parametric types. < 1313874599 248066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ style templates are the best, you get to compile different instances of identical object code for a linked list of "void *"s, "const void *"s, "int *"s, "char *"s and "AnyUserType *"s. < 1313874617 691585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for any types that happen to have the same size, most likely. < 1313874769 565255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reference to invalid character number at line 8644, column 34, byte 6668672: [..]". This new corpus of theirs isn't even XML. < 1313875002 955168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:25:06: If anybody knows how to safely run untrusted code, it's me :P < 1313875003 66865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are LITERALLY THE WORLD EXPERT. < 1313875013 708018 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric : < Gregor> CakeProphet: Literally - every - purpose. <-- I C WUT U DID THAR < 1313875022 393211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I daresay codepad might be even more paranoid than HackEgo :P < 1313875077 865177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:27:26: Patashu: Robocode is VM'd, sandboxing a VM is boring. < 1313875078 114965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VM like x86 < 1313875137 385323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the best. A 29-megabyte .xml file; Perl's XML::XPath used 2 gigabytes of memory to run a query against it. < 1313875214 947007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Perl is gud < 1313875760 60406 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, this is how it would look like if I were to install it in the bot: http://p.zem.fi/q6ph < 1313875775 191496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Go on then. < 1313875786 838190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n-oble. t-ruthful. i-ntimate. n-atural. e-namous. happy "valentines < 1313875786 911026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :day! sorry, couldn't i have had enough from you and family while < 1313875786 982411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah..heh. lucky i nvr do" < 1313875786 982603 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that's: a good idea. < 1313875792 796104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: juz finish eating soon?...or just started dont stop?.... < 1313875797 682340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's better than the darwin corpus < 1313875803 500318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't remove the darwin corpus) < 1313875847 682140 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you're sure. Will take a moment. < 1313875867 790879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whatever haha cos i quite sui bian tai tai life lor cos i din < 1313875867 904117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say dat u hav brain tumour. pappu offered to help you with microsoft < 1313875867 904286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when u're confuse ho" < 1313875879 925211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :drinkwater ma? blink together, cry together to9? < 1313875987 882159 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1313875988 64031 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1313875993 296943 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^raw QUIT :NOOOOO < 1313875993 463034 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Quit: NOOOOO < 1313876029 985033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP gunfgot < 1313876033 446287 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1313876038 166636 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style sms < 1313876038 238446 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) < 1313876065 995313 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you, or are you not, "hip"? < 1313876066 100557 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: break for dinner. i am very tensed up.. u must have taken. tsk tsk < 1313876068 267168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I thought it smelled dialect-y. < 1313876072 598414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singapore would explain it. < 1313876075 576510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pidgin-y. < 1313876079 541441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: BABY. < 1313876079 715270 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ya i am doin too much.hereafter i wnt to buy a bmw bt i forgot modl no < 1313876192 236974 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14CA27.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313876230 696153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what is hip? < 1313876357 244841 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Country distribution: http://p.zem.fi/wbrg < 1313876358 582781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: If you're so hip, what is the correct way to handle the situation in which the pimp's in the crib, ma? < 1313876358 655203 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now i say lo miss eu.dipx dipx where got always bluff me say u sleeping < 1313876371 317898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The correct answer was to "drop it like it's hot". < 1313876371 492066 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i am not having her number sir! eppadi irukkeengo? thgt some will clash... really... we can go meet em out... when she wana finish my law was carved in letters of rec u for other positions. ask me la. everytime... bslvyl < 1313876385 772960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't SG = Singapore? < 1313876394 244123 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The data, it's not very consistent. < 1313876416 630755 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY is also Malaysia. < 1313876421 370048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC.) < 1313876483 268153 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They kept saying "lor" a lot at least in the older corpus. < 1313876488 18109 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :US is United States and also another pronoun. :3 < 1313876492 10762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to go to Urban Dictionary to look up that. < 1313876498 115334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guessed about MY. < 1313876510 706898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Lor < 1313876510 812288 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was just about to do it when i wake up long la. queue long meeting at 1... later the better ofcourse i hav it dear < 1313876521 301041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I see < 1313876532 920267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Your cutoff is very impolite. < 1313876532 993636 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: today i am in cbe only. but have to seek. hee < 1313876538 17555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So how long until fungot can handle a five-DVD corpus < 1313876538 180198 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: out of hse... so u still workin at it now. just send the message to me and i.ll get it you may have to send it in the mobile mode sha but i.ll get it. and will reply. < 1313876545 780599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you have enough drives lying around to stuff into one machine < 1313876639 154268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the man with the plan < 1313876639 321370 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: with no problen i submitd a btr asignment. thanx so much andrew. i wont let me hav my dinner. my sister. how i going to reply xy's email? < 1313876663 926660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not just the dick-space, it's more that I'd need to fix the 'funge to handle larger file offsets. (Plus the conversion scripts. They'd run out of memory, the way they're currently written.) < 1313876679 980297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I gather. < 1313876691 138616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess you'd just have to split the DVDs into a lot of files. < 1313876733 781090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unmtl StateT b m r < 1313876733 875088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b -> m (r, b) < 1313876741 429643 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather run it through our pruning-smoothing thing and let it build a small approximative model, but I'm not sure I have the memory even for that. < 1313876776 800979 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle b -> m (r, b) < 1313876776 989919 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.State.Lazy runStateT :: StateT s m a -> s -> m (a, s) < 1313876777 63071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.State.Strict runStateT :: StateT s m a -> s -> m (a, s) < 1313876777 63252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad apply' :: Monad m => GT m g a -> g -> m (a, g) < 1313876838 358021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IdentityT < 1313876838 430157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Do you think like you type? < 1313876967 851572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fmap (const "a") (9,"b") < 1313876968 590227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (9,"a") < 1313876980 414664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1313877032 359254 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "a" <$ (9, "b") < 1313877033 38275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (9,"a") < 1313877036 251404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFIX POWAR. < 1313877085 676455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes. < 1313877094 934246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, other gems: here's some sort of really detailedly transcribed child-parent interaction corpus. I mean... http://p.zem.fi/hglt -- doesn't really fit in the bot, but... < 1313877111 191484 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even part-of-speech tagged and all. < 1313877117 287761 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: I daresay codepad might be even more paranoid than HackEgo :P // LIES < 1313877119 31821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :verb sponge < 1313877132 410212 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you been a verb sponge lately. < 1313877133 51287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have to make tha tfit into fungot :P < 1313877133 123504 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wats up.? wat was ur grade u got for 1 moviebefore april. cant wait to get better and meet you! i need to stretch... < 1313877256 262177 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1313877361 516891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:19:20: awww, I was hoping for a Complex number. Though that would make sqrt way more difficult to use for the most common case. < 1313877364 982954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (-1) :: Complex < 1313877365 626374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expecting an ordinary type, but found a type of kind * -> * < 1313877370 561781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (-1) :: Complex Double < 1313877371 255709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-0.0) :+ 1.0 < 1313877373 837556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :defaulting, hth < 1313877379 31639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:20:27: but then sqrt would have to be Complex a -> Complex a < 1313877380 251297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sqrt < 1313877380 937865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1313877382 666362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1313877401 267766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:27:23: type IO a = RealWorld -> (a, RealWorld) < 1313877406 872395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GH- < 1313877407 214252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:30:37: yeah GHC defines IO as: newtype IO a = IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) < 1313877409 140263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313877415 455661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (0:+1) :: Complex < 1313877416 103187 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expecting an ordinary type, but found a type of kind * -> * < 1313877419 562303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (0:+1) :: Complex Double < 1313877420 241836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.7071067811865476 :+ 0.7071067811865475 < 1313877420 905177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:32:12: With such kind of thing, how would return and >>= be implemented? < 1313877420 977705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see GHC source < 1313877490 70290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:57:13: I do like the fungespace idea as well, as it would create quite a bit of complexity. < 1313877490 142595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:57:25: I just feel like that's too much X-D < 1313877512 854271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't know what your conception of fungespace is, but I don't see how it's much more complex than a CA < 1313877527 370659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "fungespace" is sooo vague. < 1313877539 637251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungespace is just a very large to infinite two-dimensional space < 1313877541 915926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With wrapping < 1313877566 212935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:06:18: hmm, it seems that the space shuttle Enterprise and the starship Enterprise are actually named after each other < 1313877566 285444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:06:44: due to Star Trek retroactively changing their canon after the space shuttle was named after the starship < 1313877578 439508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the Enterprise in the show Enterprise, it isn't strictly a retcon < 1313877594 408799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "Here's this ship that fits into canon without contradiction DESPITE being completely ridiculous to do so" < 1313877603 497556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just NOBODY CARED ABOUT THE FIRST WARP SHIP BEFORE NOW < 1313877608 418227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was all about the SECOND Enterprise, oh yeah < 1313877642 724874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the question is, in Star Trek canon, was the shuttle Enterprise named after the popular TV series Star Trek? < 1313877667 347385 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The TV series may or may not exist in its own canon :P < 1313877684 850284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:20:07: Do you know if a Char type in Haskell is allowed to store values that are not valid Unicode code points? < 1313877691 581684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You know that the Haskell specification is available online? < 1313877696 579927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Language_and_library_specification < 1313877714 572261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The character type Char is an enumeration whose values represent Unicode characters [2]. The lexical syntax for characters is defined in Section 2.6; character literals are nullary constructors in the datatype Char. Type Char is an instance of the classes Read, Show, Eq, Ord, Enum, and Bounded. The toEnum and fromEnum functions, standard functions from class Enum, map characters to and from the Int type." < 1313877726 166623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference is just < 1313877726 498736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2] Unicode Consortium. Unicode standard. http://unicode.org/standard/standard.html. < 1313877736 733770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, Char must range over all Unicode characters and nothing else. < 1313877745 306033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:26:53: so I guess it uses UTF-26 by default. < 1313877745 378241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:26:58: *16 < 1313877750 77237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-32; Unicode is twenty-one bits. < 1313877758 161852 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, UTF-26 X-D < 1313877765 939519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:13: !haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Char]) < 1313877766 105926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:18: ​"" < 1313877766 178059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:29: !haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 1231251212512 :: [Char]) < 1313877766 524500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:33: ​"" < 1313877768 490716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:40: or, empty strings? < 1313877770 606627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:42: I guess? < 1313877772 521889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer tagging. HTH. < 1313877774 452300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tag on those is for the first constructor, i.e. [] < 1313877778 409730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no dereferencing happens < 1313877805 379056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 0x10FFFF < 1313877806 124568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20.087461546321563 < 1313877811 346007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: UTF-20.087461546321563 < 1313877825 276362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:32:23: !haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Either Int Char) < 1313877825 348357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:32:27: Left < 1313877825 348555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:32:34: I wonder what that even means. < 1313877825 611791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:32:38: It is only "Left", not the value? < 1313877827 723219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:32:55: it's some kind of garbage value I guess. < 1313877829 797099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It segfaults < 1313877831 377211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Either Int Char) >> print 99 < 1313877839 887716 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313877840 227284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ? < 1313877842 333762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1313877852 930077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = putStrLn (show (unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Either Int Char) ++ "a") < 1313877858 103317 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left < 1313877878 345358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you proved that later, heh < 1313877906 995456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:08:53: I don't think (#) is ever used outside of ghc intermediate language < 1313877908 456782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1313877927 538445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:04:19: ? = any kind, (#) = unboxed tuple, ?? = * or #, # = unboxed type, * = boxed type < 1313877929 896389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any _type_, not any kind. < 1313877944 821153 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1313877955 995985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:14:25: CakeProphet: I was drawing random circuits all over the map, then putting random electrons on it, but basically because of their duplicitous properties that caused them to spread like wildfire. < 1313877956 161391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:15:17: shouldn't they just, kind of travel along? < 1313877956 234674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:15:27: and duplicate on branches? < 1313877956 234817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:16:51: Yeah, but there are lots of branches. < 1313877959 161160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Duplicating on branches sounds wrong < 1313877971 328757 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's Wireworld. < 1313877982 195178 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could argue (*I'm* not going to) that it should say "values represent Unicode code points" if it is to range from 0 to 0x10FFFF, and saying "Unicode characters" means it's illegal to have Char values that correspond to as-of-yet unassigned code points. < 1313877987 757354 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313877989 148771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I gather WireWorld is pretty wrong. < 1313877997 342623 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wireworld is pretty AWESOME < 1313878001 863448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 0x10FFFF :: Char < 1313878002 561082 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1313878002 633024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1313878007 330326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrong? < 1313878007 842602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 0x110000 :: Char < 1313878008 500034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1114112 < 1313878016 987502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Tada. < 1313878023 625018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '\0x110000' < 1313878024 274672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1313878024 346490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1313878027 649238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '\x110000' < 1313878028 280202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1313878028 352641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1313878029 905256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '\U110000' < 1313878030 699897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1313878030 772557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1313878034 625931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'fuck you' < 1313878035 236488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1313878035 309068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1313878042 542022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hth < 1313878050 253823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that really helped. < 1313878054 108297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/conf1.png < 1313878055 485690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eyes < 1313878058 763492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: > chr 0x110000 :: Char < 1313878058 836140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1114112 < 1313878074 26116 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/config.png This is the new starting config. < 1313878097 465072 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I didn't say 0x110000 *shouldn't* be bad, I was saying that one could argue that saying "character" means the currently unassigned blocks within 0 .. 0x10ffff should also be illegal. < 1313878130 924900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:36:47: quintopia: well assuming you are using Linux, last i used that for a desktop focusing and moving to the top were independent actions < 1313878136 671665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really a common choice nowadays :P < 1313878145 763125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What happened to eys < 1313878146 989432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyes < 1313878157 527426 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They grew :P < 1313878160 869060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. < 1313878169 283768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They don't look like eyes any more < 1313878176 967225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the yellow things < 1313878177 299667 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Neither does your mom. < 1313878178 871785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case that is not obvious < 1313878187 32120 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I gathered that :P < 1313878202 171899 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The old configuration had more than its fair share of problems. < 1313878205 939554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new configuration is much more stable. < 1313878211 936647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42:50: what is tiling < 1313878212 8958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:43:00: quintopia: horrible stuff < 1313878212 9103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel gets HEATED. < 1313878224 625554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, I'm just commenting on your different drawing of electrons. < 1313878232 971847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1313878238 602340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the eyes like < 1313878241 158377 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The only difference in how they're drawn is that the second one is drawn 2x :P < 1313878241 359412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electron + powered wire? < 1313878246 511180 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's electron + wire, yes. < 1313878248 805956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1313878255 389403 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The electron proper is just two pixels (head+tail) < 1313878263 296711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Head+tail model is really ugly < 1313878307 715943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:52:33: So I'm thinking of making little concatenative language where, nominally at least, the one datatype available is a cons-list. < 1313878307 881689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy. < 1313878315 154391 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That - is - Wireworld >_< < 1313878318 156852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's not sarcasm, but it might become it; I mean the language Joy.) < 1313878319 896184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know. < 1313878322 821585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm dissin' wireworld. < 1313878330 473183 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And what CA would YOU prefer X_X < 1313878349 712986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My name is Johny, what the F**K????? < 1313878356 968721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a nicer model than head-tail < 1313878380 418031 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313878388 709624 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I seeeeeeeeeeeeee :P < 1313878412 142875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Deletion log); 20:47 . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (deleted "My name is Johny, what the F**K?????": offtopic, probable spam) < 1313878420 354527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also: last two entries on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ehird < 1313878420 552255 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh :P < 1313878429 216873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a CA-ish esolang I'm developing :P < 1313878435 611110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to wireworld in that it has wires. < 1313878458 335807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My snowman user page is SO GREAT, jeez. < 1313878483 761640 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to argue with that. < 1313878489 957355 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma rip it off but use a goat. < 1313878529 440241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Let's put it this way < 1313878533 998291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird&action=history < 1313878539 438447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check every single revision I've made to the page to get it working < 1313878541 194283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can rip it off < 1313878549 18782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them even have edit summaries. < 1313878572 25290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Your browser may lag :P < 1313878577 2689 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how "compare revisions" is just totally broken. < 1313878610 802537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ais changed the global stylesheet so that you could edit it when "preview on edit" is set without it obscuring the box entirely... but that also made preview just not work :P < 1313878617 147456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to save every time I wanted to check a new revision. < 1313878623 73183 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313878627 98488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bear in mind that I can't just do it locally because I need to know whether MW will filter out the syntax.) < 1313878634 227984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a list made out of i and u elements.) < 1313878640 78729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was before Template:div and Template:span existed.) < 1313878680 307341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really love how you can't edit Template:div and Template:span without changing them. < 1313878769 795606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:28:37: In a stack-based language I'm not sure. < 1313878770 62787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:28:43: (NB: I'm going with prefix syntax.) < 1313878772 848843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, so your program runs backwards < 1313878816 329437 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's all about term rewriting??? < 1313878825 249320 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is evincar thinking: the game < 1313878827 807473 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So what's this CA then < 1313878830 730753 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it. < 1313878842 59525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: <elliott> It's a CA-ish esolang I'm developing :P < 1313878850 174532 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that much >_< < 1313878858 569573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Developing", i.e. have not already developed fully < 1313878865 205782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can ask me for ideas though :-P < 1313878882 36928 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so far your only complaint against Wireworld is irrelevant *shrugs* < 1313878896 211907 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't deny that there are legit problems with it, but its form of electrons ain't one of 'em. < 1313878900 605703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My complaint is that it's ugly :P < 1313878904 924453 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*waaah* < 1313878927 993412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're inventing a game based on a CA, making the world have what amounts to a clunky hack: bad?? EXPERTS DISAGREE < 1313878970 473439 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm yet to see your magical CA that "solves" this "problem". < 1313878990 522048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... by doing it in a different way? < 1313879004 37527 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me what that way is. < 1313879007 366856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You like to call everything different to anything magical :P < 1313879020 667539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's tons of ways you can do it, < 1313879025 392101 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as < 1313879030 920005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE COMMA DENOTES I'M STILL TYPING < 1313879037 329376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For instance having a signal spread along a wire rather than moving, like real electronics, < 1313879039 10615 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14CA27.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1313879040 336748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1313879058 604238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or having four signal cell types (colours), one for each cardinal direction < 1313879071 37830 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: First one's tough to turn off, second one's even more gross. < 1313879076 308278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also have separate corner blocks (and have wires that reach the end of a wire that isn't a corner fizzle) < 1313879080 243573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just have them turn automatically < 1313879086 747908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not more gross if you're using ASCII rather than colours < 1313879103 676206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, you can turn it off with a virus that walks along a wire removing signal blocks < 1313879112 846432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And which DOES split on branches :P < 1313879124 411181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY YOU CAN CLONE LACK OF ENERGY < 1313879138 106260 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooo, you've got a CA that's ten times as complicated, AND a huge pain :P < 1313879152 194583 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad you've removed tails though! < 1313879177 945576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ten times as complicated? Signal wire -> signal signal in each direction; Virus signal -> virus virus in each direction; virus with more than one signal neighbour -> split < 1313879189 352601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, make signals split too, for obvious reasons < 1313879191 988478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo hard < 1313879206 177131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And WireWorld isn't exactly the paragon of simplicity :P < 1313879209 380467 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I wire gets detached, it continues to be powered by magic. Making it ... not so much a wire ... more like ... RAM. < 1313879209 588987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it's a huge pain either < 1313879219 377267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mmnope? < 1313879225 794101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have detaching a wire (however you do that) produce a virus < 1313879226 256034 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am working on making a Haskell program for accessing another library, this program is written in both C and in Haskell. < 1313879231 609288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things can't just "move" in CAs :P < 1313879235 877869 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313879246 9064 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally left #esoteric o.O < 1313879308 41762 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, detaching a wire turns off both sides, including the one that's where the power was considered to be coming from, and in fact there's no way to detach a wire without destroying the whole "on" part of the circuit, requiring you to constantly seek out fresh electron sources (only to have them trivially destroyed by your enemies) < 1313879337 620138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, I don't see what's wrong with having them act like RAM < 1313879341 306011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going for gritty realism < 1313879364 148516 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to give this Haskell program a fully qualified module name? Or will it work without? < 1313879371 293034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have signals carry a strength that goes down every tick, and if it reaches 0 goes off; then a power source just feeds energy in each direction < 1313879374 715572 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not, I'm just being argumentative since you're actually getting /farther/ from the electronics paradigm while claiming to get /closer/. < 1313879379 52672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a high-energy spreads to a low energy by halvings < 1313879380 97168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :halving < 1313879384 843830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, wires have limited length too < 1313879387 813348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool < 1313879393 394264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can persist for a short time after losing their power source < 1313879394 708496 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now ... they're ditches :P < 1313879400 33142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not trying to get closer to the electronics paradigm < 1313879401 302393 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And power is water < 1313879411 546523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mentioned spreading being more realistic than blips moving about, which it is :P < 1313879417 938120 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: For instance having a signal spread along a wire rather than moving, like real electronics, < 1313879422 4251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes < 1313879424 400700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff < 1313879426 92500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That specific point is more like real electronics < 1313879430 150235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about realism < 1313879440 576574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whether I've turned it into WaterWorld or not, you have to admit that's a cool model :P < 1313879451 417709 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the irrigation mechanism isn't bad. < 1313879484 454410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since there's no fundamental problem with the wireworld model (tails = not a problem, fundamental or otherwise), I'm not hugely inclined to both invent a CA and a game at the same time :P < 1313879488 433506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could have Minecraft-esque repeaters, that's not like water, you can't conjure up more water as long as you have some water :P < 1313879503 473918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you basically ARE inventing a CA and a game, because you have to make modifications to the CA state < 1313879543 855506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also it would look So Cool because you could have lower power states look closer to wires. < 1313879552 290633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd see the power pulsing across :D < 1313879569 964721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I think it'd lead to a looping gradient on any wire moving along < 1313879584 747844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some sort of flickering < 1313879678 864096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Welp, I think I just invented Johny's new model :P < 1313879850 482819 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Luckily, my CA's pretty interchangeable, so once you get it working, I'll adapt :P < 1313879860 310712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it's good) < 1313879884 314246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Head+tail model is really ugly < 1313879886 376902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1313879925 886717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1313879946 920779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I'd already planned my own immensely-superior game. I'm hurt. :/ < 1313879950 830435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you be more antagonistic? < 1313879977 950820 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1313879980 551665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1313879981 574258 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a dead pixel >_< < 1313880015 485894 :yourstruly!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1313880028 481697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have a dead seagull. < 1313880032 758248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it's ugly. < 1313880037 783682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because you never want a head without a tail or vice versa. < 1313880041 773005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because it's two cells. < 1313880044 494392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because it's: ugly. < 1313880055 509702 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let me paraphrase. < 1313880059 777612 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1313880064 784755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd be more inclined to call direction encoded into state ugly. < 1313880087 468963 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nothing he's proposed has that < 1313880096 480882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it does, the one model with one per direction < 1313880098 835517 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait < 1313880100 766942 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing did < 1313880102 339857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I invented the BEST MODEL. < 1313880103 865053 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313880107 374630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I had to skim the discussion. < 1313880116 686211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of still want something involving blips travelling in one direction, but I dunno how to do that nicely < 1313880121 825696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just for the esolang, not for the game) < 1313880123 112683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to join it and then elliott went off and talked about some boring crap. < 1313880140 290750 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, if this dead pixel doesn't go away, I'm gonna be SUPER pissed :'( < 1313880159 731262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry but I invented the BEST MODEL. < 1313880165 361872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is it. < 1313880222 353200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See above. < 1313880236 334793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on the signal spreading model:) < 1313880237 166587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You could have signals carry a strength that goes down every tick, and if it reaches 0 goes off; then a power source just feeds energy in each direction < 1313880239 927235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : And a high-energy spreads to a low energy by halvings < 1313880240 2027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : halving < 1313880240 2195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That way, wires have limited length too < 1313880240 2306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's cool < 1313880240 2469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : And can persist for a short time after losing their power source < 1313880256 554022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1313880259 756692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure about this one:) Gregor: You could have Minecraft-esque repeaters, that's not like water, you can't conjure up more water as long as you have some water :P < 1313880282 631553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eeew, that's going to have a huge transition table. < 1313880333 882375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh come on, the transition table can be generated by a trivial rule. < 1313880347 587969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also: DF's water CA (which I don't know how it works) :P < 1313880373 574284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just think that having lots of states is really, really inelegant. < 1313880558 984755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's just deliberately limiting yourself to shallow sets of states by mandating that you unpack the cell structure < 1313880560 888266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern matching, yo < 1313880581 794363 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dead pixel won't go awaaaaaaaaaaay :'( < 1313880717 899788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is in the stages of denial < 1313880719 930829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many are there again < 1313880721 417285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five?? < 1313880770 889556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he used singular. So one < 1313880794 240652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming 5 referred to number of dead pixels) < 1313880806 275945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1313880825 412514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, real men don't try to figure out the context. Or something. < 1313880828 984912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1313880855 687703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Context', a word which means 'the two immediately precedent lines'. < 1313881140 14716 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unexploited niche market: pixel funerals for dead pixels? < 1313881161 820851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a coffin out of the neighbour pixels and so on. < 1313881180 718397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then MONETIZE it. < 1313881223 52141 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem would be writing your coffin displaying and funeral dirge playing program for so many different architectures < 1313881240 845831 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess not problem, but lots of ground to cover < 1313881248 598726 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to reach your entire dead pixel getting audience < 1313881306 372669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: it is impossible to write portable programs < 1313881420 478794 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you write it for windows 32/64, linux, mac, ios, windows phone and android you have almost everyone < 1313881432 599163 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure there's some architecture that'll let you do that (haxe? unity?) < 1313881471 818214 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313881484 569565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write it for windows 32 you already have almost everyone < 1313881522 646647 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, do people using smartphones not get dead pixels? < 1313881523 69736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: dude....... < 1313881525 953243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are portable libraries.......... < 1313881545 339763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write a program that runs on Windows, anything with X, and OS X's Aqua trivially....... < 1313881554 686565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "almost everyone" < 1313881555 576439 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My arms are bloody and there's insulin all over the walls. < 1313881568 121767 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People using smartphones are not part of that group :-P < 1313881569 567188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ditto < 1313881571 723427 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1313881580 21031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure they are, if the group is everyone who gets dead pixels < 1313881594 284154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Assuming smartphones includes things which run Java, which is enough for an MMORPG < 1313881595 780303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe < 1313881607 35653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what the name of that thing is < 1313881612 607806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tibia rings a bell but isn't that a bone < 1313881616 282220 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a java MMO? < 1313881618 209351 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runescape? < 1313881619 514828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's Tibia < 1313881625 45244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, mobile-Java < 1313881631 255852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "actually runs on shitty phones" < 1313881648 91534 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runescape ran on computers worse than most modern phones < 1313881661 192310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not worse than phones that can only run Java stuff < 1313881670 346943 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, worse than those as well < 1313881680 109104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe :P < 1313881707 897397 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCCESS < 1313881712 884907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, point is, wxWidgets or Qt or whatever + Whatever the fuck most Nokia phones with any kind of computational power have + Java ME + iOS + Android = market pretty much entirely covered < 1313881717 525443 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In giving Tia her insulin, not in getting rid of my dead pixel. < 1313881718 756782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Series forty? < 1313881734 190417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is Tia your pet name for your walls < 1313881737 722321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :S40 is what does J2ME mostly. < 1313881748 363848 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "not Symbian but can still do stuff" series. < 1313881800 394009 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tia is my cat :P < 1313881820 792561 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for "actual smartphones", current devices do Symbian/S60 (but that's a Qt-able platform) and future ones will do Windows Phone 7 (which doesn't do anything crossplatform, I don't think). < 1313881829 116255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your walls are a cat? < 1313881843 854522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Qt-able" -- I doubt it'll run a regular desktop Qt app :P < 1313881855 884937 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but Qt is what you're supposed to use to develop for it. < 1313881863 438021 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1313881880 852578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay. < 1313882004 88432 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nokia had a huge-ish campaign, speakers everywhere, about how they're going on with Symbian in "regular smartphones" and Maemo/MeeGO in those high-end devices, and how with Qt you can write cross-platform code that easily runs in both Symbian and MaeGO. I think I heard at least three talks like that, and I'm sure they had quite a few of them. < 1313882051 197968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was like month before the Elopgate and "we're going to deprecate Symbian and be a WP7-exclusive shop on our smarty-phones" + "no, we're not going to port Qt to WP7, it's not part of the Vision". < 1313882069 570680 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But you should still keep developing those Qt apps, there's still going to be Symbian devices for the next two years or so." < 1313882144 802550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Meego is pretty dead isn't it < 1313882151 62249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's happening to maemo < 1313882158 756773 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Intel might push out a few "netbooks" running it. < 1313882173 699495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On phones I don't think it's going to have a very bright future. < 1313882182 681485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what happened; what happened? < 1313882220 376940 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Maemo's completely community-supported nowadays. < 1313882240 625171 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-/-un/ < 1313882328 295339 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the "Community SSU" which is some magic sauce that makes the normally-not-updated-from-the-maemo.org-community-repositories "core packages" also updateable too; there's a huge pile of bugfixes, even my little one-line patch to fix "bright black" to dark grey in the bundled terminal emulator. < 1313882343 987342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there is a new game show on television here called "Epic Win". It is exactly as bad as it sounds. < 1313882352 709329 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear < 1313882371 277857 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nokia's going to release one MeeGo phone still, the N9, but it's very likely to be both the first and the last MeeGo device they do. < 1313882372 362954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "Epic Fail" is actually invoked. Relatedly: I have become the first person to drain all blood from their body entirely through desperate scratching. < 1313882378 937999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1313882381 200239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies. < 1313882404 426643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You didn't actually remind me what happened to MeeGo. :p < 1313882415 894718 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Win Welp < 1313882443 822072 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : The term "Epic Fail" is actually invoked. Relatedly: I have become the first person to drain all blood from their body entirely through desperate scratching. // need I present my allergy-ridden feet? < 1313882446 492424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, the Elopgate. Nokia (after saying they're MAKING IT HAPPEN with Intel) decided to go all Windows Phone 7 instead. < 1313882452 623108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're dead? < 1313882460 788801 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I'm a zombie. < 1313882463 605245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a thing that happened? wow. < 1313882465 786427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]Wow. < 1313882468 71823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah. < 1313882475 435157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try watching "Epic Win", you might somehow die twice. < 1313882550 755378 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're (according to current plans/rumours) going to release a grand total of approximately 1.1 MeeGo devices; the N9, plus the N950 "developers only" phone, which I'm counting as 0.1 because (even though it is a MeeGo device) it's not going to actually be released. < 1313882567 476815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote They're (according to current plans/rumours) going to release a grand total of approximately 1.1 MeeGo devices; the N9, plus the N950 "developers only" phone, which I'm counting as 0.1 because (even though it is a MeeGo device) it's not going to actually be released. < 1313882569 317889 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :609) They're (according to current plans/rumours) going to release a grand total of approximately 1.1 MeeGo devices; the N9, plus the N950 "developers only" phone, which I'm counting as 0.1 because (even though it is a MeeGo device) it's not going to actually be released. < 1313882584 882885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wonder what the long-term support on that'll be like :P < 1313882690 911473 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It then, turned out to be a software developer-only offering, with no warranties and other related-stuff, although Nokia promised software updates.[106] It is referred to as a "beta testing only" device, where developers can test their applications made specifically for the MeeGo operating system.[107] The phone was finally unveiled to developers (and will not be consumer market available) on the company's Nokia Connection 2011 event.[108]" < 1313882695 44380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be like that. < 1313882709 772154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I wouldn't count on any "promised software updates". < 1313882714 639168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about the Glk library? < 1313882745 713154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sort-of "this is off the record, but we're pretty sure we're going to make this happen" promised a working MeeGo on the N900 too, but turns out they're not going to bother, since, you know, WP7. < 1313882778 726234 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an official alpha of the MeeGo handset UX for the N900, but from what I hear it's pretty sucky. < 1313882790 530940 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How DARE you not be here. < 1313882898 822206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm like CakeProphet but I say smart things, try me < 1313882904 66977 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "sucky" I mean "camera autofocus doesn't work, still images have their top half replaced with noise when flash is used, the media player doesn't play any video, ..." < 1313882914 306570 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it still works better than Android-on-N900.) < 1313882942 52314 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So the only commands a client needs are move, build and destroy, yes? < 1313882966 365517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're going to let clients set local CA state arbitrarily? I guess that could work, but most CA constructions are really fragile. < 1313882978 386312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, delete one cell and they completely break. < 1313882991 909141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it move some sort of in-game avatar? < 1313882998 283875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgive me, I skimmed the logs, so I need some rough context :-P < 1313883017 890044 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It moves an in-game avatar, and "build" and "destroy" are only honored if the move is actually legal. < 1313883029 700340 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N900 NITDroid port, "the current active NITDroid port" that is "moving at a very quick pace of development", has had its last Wiki status page update in Nov 2010. < 1313883050 629409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Illegal moves -- you mean build and destroy take absolute coordinates that have to be in the Moore neighbourhood of the avatar? < 1313883059 584832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just have build [direction] and destroy [direction] < 1313883070 352624 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can only build and destroy in a direction, yes. < 1313883080 649384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1313883084 450060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When would they ever be invalid, then? < 1313883098 337917 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to build over something that has to be destroyed first, for instance. < 1313883122 863545 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the only rule to that AFAIK is that you can only build a conductor on nothing, not on e.g. a flag :P < 1313883128 505765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wouldn't it just be a nop then, since it'd be destroying and rebuilding something for no reason < 1313883133 254446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what you actually want is to make sure that it's a wire cell < 1313883135 318214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it is, if it already is < 1313883148 175581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to destroying and recreating which takes longer and has side-effects in the meantime < 1313883152 884883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right now the only rule to that AFAIK is that you can only build a conductor on nothing, not on e.g. a flag :P < 1313883154 350262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right < 1313883158 393633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can't build anything but wires, right? < 1313883158 483657 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make the protocol more general for future CAs, I was going to have what you're building be specified. < 1313883162 982400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I'd do it, at least < 1313883167 846740 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you can only build wires. < 1313883177 987452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weeell, a generic protocol isn't really important, I wouldn't say < 1313883181 823748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you have to rewrite your AI anyway if the CA changes < 1313883191 554240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm < 1313883195 124958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make it turtle based < 1313883197 479083 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but having the CA pluggable into the server without changing it otherwise would be nice *shrugs* < 1313883210 35415 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"turtle based" = "LOGO based"? < 1313883210 685915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turnL, turnR, forwards, build, destroy < 1313883216 490334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Turtle-graphics based < 1313883225 240135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only cardinal directions < 1313883227 709060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not LOGO < 1313883235 771305 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue I see: an agent following an enemy agent could immediately undo anything it does < 1313883237 104889 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullifying it < 1313883241 387147 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could include NW, NE, SW, SE. < 1313883241 871794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's nicer because building a line is faster than, like, building in random directions < 1313883250 453744 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Destroy isn't immediate. < 1313883251 263667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm < 1313883258 503752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, that's nicer, Moore neighbourhood < 1313883268 482224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But point is, it's a nicer model :P < 1313883269 4346 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easier to mess things up than create useful things in any CA < 1313883270 230859 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I like that. < 1313883274 386651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course moving takes a tick < 1313883282 341118 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: That's why we put a hefty price on destruction. < 1313883284 201663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So U-turning takes a short while < 1313883286 379634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which intuitively makes sense < 1313883291 930766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the hefty price on destruction < 1313883292 105006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1313883297 584223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have like a currency -- build units? < 1313883309 496339 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We considered various resources, then just decided time was the best one. < 1313883316 739351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that, if you have a fixed number of wires you can build, then destroying a wire should give you another wire to build. < 1313883326 263529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, you can't just camp out somewhere, you have to destroy other mechanisms to build bigger ones. < 1313883334 83206 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1313883335 499501 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a wireworldish CA, you can destroy by creating too < 1313883350 836387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess if you can sustain yourself without building anything bigger, then that doesn't help much, but something would probably destroy you then < 1313883356 104003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So building bigger is useful for camping out purposes < 1313883361 979713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So building should ostensibly cost something < 1313883380 516632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem then is, if destroying takes a while, it's really hard to build beyond your initial inventory < 1313883383 770197 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Mmmm, I think actually breaking mechanisms that way takes a bit of intelligence, unless you just draw everywhere which would still take a while. < 1313883385 914230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's fast, then it's too easy to bulldozer things < 1313883410 661206 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I think a system similar to that was on the proverbial board at some point, but abandoned for time-only for exactly that reason... < 1313883414 109897 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I do like the notino. < 1313883415 880779 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*notion < 1313883436 148054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm kind of not a fan of the idea of destroy taking more than one tick, it feels like all the commands are one-tick "primitives" in a way... < 1313883452 17518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if it was like MC, and you had to repeatedly attack to destroy? < 1313883459 690707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires hidden state or a combinatorial explosion of cell types though < 1313883461 181850 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well yeah, exactly. < 1313883469 957513 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has that (not-actually) hidden state right now, damage. < 1313883480 300830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damage to what? < 1313883484 233317 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells. < 1313883489 87593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the agents, that's okay, because they're kind of outside the game. < 1313883493 857475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why do cells have damage < 1313883500 488658 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To destroy wires. < 1313883509 535472 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The damage doesn't affect their behavior, so it's not a part of the CA proper. < 1313883530 709186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Umm, you only need the agent to have state for that < 1313883541 698640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it turn into a one-hit agent, two-hit agent, three-hit agent, four-hit agent, (block breaks) normal agent < 1313883549 550762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than introducing hidden state into every f'n cell :P < 1313883558 334248 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, not one byte per cell ... < 1313883561 706470 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again, it's not hiden. < 1313883563 609338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hidden < 1313883575 400693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how's it not hidden? < 1313883579 234097 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agents see it. < 1313883596 14852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm < 1313883612 750162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd rather have that be, agents see another agent going into dig state < 1313883623 810082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you're not looking for damaged cells, you're looking for agents that are damaging your construction :P < 1313883631 521866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you want damage to fade if you kill an agent that's damaging you, I would say < 1313883634 79015 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't you just talking about making agent actions primitives/atomic a moment ago :P < 1313883646 613113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yep, but evidently destroy has to take some time with the current model < 1313883646 740706 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agents can't kill agents. < 1313883651 408251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd you win then < 1313883655 388466 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's CTF. < 1313883683 526031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313883693 33382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well OK, but does damage fade if it's not being destroyed? < 1313883699 442587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I still think it's more elegant as a change in agent-state < 1313883742 912511 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it far more elegant if damage is a cell property. That way you can wander off, time out, whatever and then keep destroying; or realize somebody is trying to kill your work and go beat them first, then come back. < 1313883751 990004 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, why would cells magically heal themselves? < 1313883759 866038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nanobots < 1313883773 532927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or if you see damage as being done by bending a wire so hard it breaks, then it creaks back :-) < 1313883783 73294 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cells don't magically heal themselves, you have a destruction blowtorch that takes X turns to heat up, and if you get distracted it cools down instantly < 1313883808 834269 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you have a destruction axe that takes X turns to lift up, and if you get distracted you have to drop it < 1313883827 721225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But anyway, if damage is a cell property, then it should DEFINITELY be "hit" per tick < 1313883831 232115 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In yo electronics, axin' yo wires < 1313883837 459344 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, of course. < 1313883855 142411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno, I feel like trying to destroy an agent block should do SOMETHING :P < 1313883858 485911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrt killing) < 1313883864 654813 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But agents aren't a block ... < 1313883870 465952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, they aren't? < 1313883875 382907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just... invisible? < 1313883887 688587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems... odd that agents can move around the world and yet don't actually exist. < 1313883891 749745 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't decided if they're visible yet, but their presence doesn't influence the CA, only their action. < 1313883896 400900 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, it's like the IP in befunge < 1313883897 453388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah < 1313883901 262106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can model that from within the CA < 1313883908 183031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They can't move past blocks that aren't space, right? < 1313883914 3520 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To be determined. < 1313883929 539559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think that's really the best idea, because then you can model it from within the CA, and agents can see other agents as just another cell < 1313883931 353951 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1313883942 264005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't model it from within the CA without colour explosion if they can be over another type of block < 1313883944 813350 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agents are invisible, BUT if you stand on a tile where you think an agent is or is aadjacent to and use 'eject' it's sent back home < 1313883946 277498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also encasing agents in wires sounds awesome < 1313883959 399938 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is a stealth mission < 1313883960 3146 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmmmmmmmmmmm, hard to argue with that ... < 1313883981 420104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: You could just sit by your flag, ejecting every cell. < 1313883981 806329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh my god, what if you stand at the end of a wire and the blip hits you, PLEASE ELECTROCUTION < 1313884006 99926 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmmm, I hadn't considered any direct action of electrons on agents X-D < 1313884007 173719 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, needs a cooldown if you fail then < 1313884036 665622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A spread model makes that ten times more awesome: Electric fences. < 1313884049 765191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEANWHILE :P < 1313884062 300310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also: I'm tempted to say it would be fun to have hard-realtime guarantees on the decision-making process of each agent per tick... I guess that could be an optional thing because it does destroy the purity :P < 1313884072 776958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, if there's nothing technically disallowed about taking ten seconds to decide what to do each tick... < 1313884091 166148 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The server doesn't wait for more than 1/15th of a second. < 1313884096 703459 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it takes you longer than that, too bad. < 1313884110 923124 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want to solve the halting problem :P < 1313884116 694127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That... um... sounds like a really bad timeframe? < 1313884120 418428 :Libster!~Libster@pool-71-191-84-92.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313884128 977629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 0.06 seconds might be easy for C, but... < 1313884138 571644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess you can use threading to figure out things in the background < 1313884143 445217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have to, anyway, so that you get notified when a new turn starts :P < 1313884167 736509 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, yeah :P < 1313884226 1710 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyway, make the timeframe too long and nothing'll ever get done, make it too short and ... well, the problems are obvious there. < 1313884231 144918 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to wait days to see who wins. < 1313884287 672142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure, but maybe... 0.2 or 0.3s? That's not really that long to wait for a CA update. < 1313884298 968924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 0.06 is more realtime. < 1313884321 468668 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 iterations at 0.2 per is 200 seconds; and I honestly don't see too much getting done in 1000 iterations. < 1313884432 157665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Oblig. ping for /msg.) < 1313884434 264154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: True. < 1313884462 318188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So what do the agents actually see? The entire CA state of their view radius? Which I guess is just a square in front of them. < 1313884469 475065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OMG, that is really awesome; you have to turn to see things behind you. < 1313884474 100095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turtle graphics model: suddenly the best. < 1313884481 653414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes looking diagonally a bit awkward >_> < 1313884486 763470 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A view radius, which I was thinking is a square /around/ you, but I suppose it could be either ... < 1313884489 144229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for the cardinal directions it's super-perfect :P < 1313884504 398383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you can only go "forward", then being able to see behind you is really weird. < 1313884518 80768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is looking diagonally. < 1313884523 237700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You've invented a device known as a rear-view mirror. < 1313884534 685706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cars can reverse too < 1313884539 282398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The problem is looking diagonally. < 1313884544 625421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is really nice for Moore-neighbourhoodness, < 1313884548 482748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really bad for viewing range. < 1313884555 661299 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that's a significant-enough problem that I'm willing to give up forward-vision for it :P < 1313884557 670316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it can be done, it'd just be a bit ugly :P < 1313884565 440374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd rather give up diagonal orientation. < 1313884568 877429 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313884570 891919 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1313884578 869555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you consider build; forward; build; forward; ..., then diagonal directions make very little sense. < 1313884580 825353 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I might with a different CA, but electrons in WW move diagonally. < 1313884581 169808 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye yours truly < 1313884581 418244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because wires don't work diagonally. < 1313884585 610100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they do? < 1313884587 819094 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1313884591 187189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On straight-diagonal wires? < 1313884593 563673 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1313884599 115298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313884628 457622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I mean, you just have to generalise "in front of you" to make it work < 1313884638 121795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of seeing "N neighbourhoods in each neighbourhood direction" ahead < 1313884647 677392 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313884648 987140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not actually hard to provide a diagonal view at all < 1313884649 571200 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1313884667 899749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, in fact, it's easy; it's just a diamond < 1313884670 340672 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it makes it really hard on the client to generalize >_> < 1313884681 623194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, consider this: You want the "view" to be rotated anyway < 1313884685 122267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it's actually what you see ahead of you < 1313884691 878332 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313884693 570388 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1313884694 613999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotating a square so it's diagonal on a CA field = diamond < 1313884698 320182 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1313884698 867741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just send the diamond as a square < 1313884701 653840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What? < 1313884710 548967 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, you want to rotate the view, and I didn't think about that :P < 1313884715 996666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1313884718 644261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it actually works pretty easily < 1313884729 719725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can transform it into a "what we've seen of the world" trivially: reverse the rotation, merge it in < 1313884736 73162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yay, diagonal viewing is easy :P < 1313884736 165879 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313884737 194891 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that rotating square cells is grotty ... < 1313884737 636244 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1313884747 506102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate the DIAMOND :P < 1313884751 967568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not what's in it < 1313884754 260311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wireworld is symmetrical, right? < 1313884757 541685 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1313884759 695573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it symmetrical diagonally? < 1313884766 981428 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1313884774 491506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then that's absolutely fine if you ask me < 1313884774 563446 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diamond is composed of mis-oriented squares though :P < 1313884788 67889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, like I said, base it on Moore neighbourhoods < 1313884795 49186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow