< 1313107327 969566 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :LoverOfCheeses < 1313107635 510587 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is taking a lot of math this semester < 1313107656 711258 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear Algebra, Appl Probability & Statistics, Methods in Operations Research < 1313107929 830824 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313108322 343679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Haskell 98, the only classes that may appear in the deriving clause are the standard classes Eq, Ord, Enum, Ix, Bounded, Read, and Show." Is there any system that you can derive your own classes? Possibly using Template Haskell? < 1313108486 990779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe there are packages for it < 1313108488 706925 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using template haskell. < 1313108572 337244 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also derive more classes for newtypes with the GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving flag < 1313108595 629563 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's specific to newtypes < 1313108685 507152 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also ghc adds some more classes, such as Typeable. i think maybe also Functor, Traversable and the like? or maybe that's in a package. < 1313108745 126771 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229096158.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313108790 23422 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you do it with your own classes too? < 1313108804 94103 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no standard way < 1313108816 103557 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure template haskell must be able to, although i don't know it much < 1313108860 449890 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps you just need one of the more lightweight generics < 1313108900 986748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/derive < 1313108913 396902 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229096158.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1313109061 719109 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://community.haskell.org/~ndm/darcs/derive/derive.htm < 1313109408 727894 :LoverOfCheeses!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1313109755 797806 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lapi. < 1313109772 494071 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lappi. Lappila. < 1313109800 598984 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Läppäri. < 1313109821 902717 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lapine laputa < 1313109832 514646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Laputa < 1313109915 534535 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puta. Kom puta. < 1313110158 604118 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is if you can do something, if it were Template Haskell you might have a function of the type: Name -> (Info -> (Q [Dec])) -> (Q [Dec]) so that once you have specified the name of the class and the function that makes the instance declaration from the declaration containing the "deriving", and results in the declaration that tells it to accept "deriving" for that class. < 1313110296 222893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says monads have to do with category theory. < 1313110445 631597 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they do, you don't need category theory to use them though < 1313110701 584397 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: iiuc derive doesn't use Template Haskell to generate the instance declaration, only to splice them into the original file, and you can choose to have it just append haskell code to the file instead < 1313111151 669138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a few more days until I get a chunk of unintelligent design removed from my mouth. Yay. < 1313111193 15133 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brace for the removal? < 1313111208 415029 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wisdom teeth removal. < 1313111221 141618 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1313111239 620932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have neither need nor desire for braces. < 1313111272 341494 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently have no wisdom teeth < 1313111276 227338 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never had any removed, but that may be because they removed four other teeth first when i _did_ get my teeth adjusted < 1313111308 62874 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has 3 and maybe a fourth lurking inside < 1313111319 640448 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229096202.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313111352 240612 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a plate, not braces though < 1313111371 22523 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has 3, one of which is causing direct issues, two of which are probably going to. < 1313111383 773524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1313111419 688078 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume wisdom teeth were intelligent enough back when people used to have lost teeth before they came out < 1313111437 703258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's not really it. < 1313111445 67228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1313111445 932056 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wisdom teeth made sense when we had larger jaws. < 1313111460 625714 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fit. < 1313111469 467431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1313111487 847962 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it took longer for them to be selected against than for large jaws to be selected against. < 1313111510 131518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a proud part of evolution < 1313111510 918717 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229096158.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313111520 731649 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is, too. < 1313111525 406366 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing one of them, you see. < 1313111526 905797 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL THE MUTANTS < 1313111536 294069 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: All life is mutant. < 1313111543 783770 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WAI < 1313111557 779518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently have a single half a one below my gum or something < 1313111566 741882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there something like an average of a dozen mutations per person? < 1313111567 270674 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've not seen it except on xray < 1313111687 369749 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1313113167 503032 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have wisdom teeth, but I'm goign to see if my jaw i abnomally large enough to fit them. < 1313113175 367543 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1313113270 267141 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can eat a banana sideways, you should be fine. < 1313113294 506518 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lays on his side, munches on a bannana. < 1313113314 165862 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i take no responsibility for lack of reading comprehension. < 1313116832 948555 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crude sexual innuendo regarding munching on MY banana etc* < 1313117081 550780 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdude: you need to hire fan girls < 1313117090 896974 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, girls holding fans < 1313117106 682489 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and practice lowering grapes slowly into your mouth by the stem < 1313117123 945866 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeded grapes, so you can spit them on the floor (gracefully) < 1313117203 198650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i utterly fail to see how this helps him check for an abnormally large jaw < 1313117521 598741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldnt, but it would help him make good friends with bacchus < 1313117539 579970 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1313117587 47514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today in Jeopardy one of the players had the lowest score I think I have ever seen: -6000 < 1313117687 672260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone ever go lower? < 1313117695 469662 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was that managed < 1313117718 224145 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was a finalist! < 1313117738 661151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, this is the finalist game) < 1313117898 435856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, during a match of two games, if you have negative they will not have to make up 6000, they will start with 0 instead of -6000 < 1313118318 302012 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard that < 1313118322 810367 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313118336 538536 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :trebek's like "dont worry! you start over at zero tomorrow!" < 1313118358 269504 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen btw? i wasnt actually watching closely < 1313118365 466265 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just heard some of the questions < 1313118373 7773 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313118636 94009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that player gave too many incorrect responses. < 1313118884 455756 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little jumpy with the button were they? < 1313118908 266087 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in final jeopardy they couldnt even bet? < 1313119073 228600 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if your score is zero or negative at the end of the second round, you are out and cannot play the final round. < 1313119264 903382 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313119272 227877 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1313119582 976891 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty amusing. < 1313119780 84291 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1313120178 42094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, for 200 points: How many operations are there in the Brainfuck programming language? < 1313120202 34254 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1313120208 674914 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what is 8) < 1313120212 936962 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1313120228 210896 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x10FFFF. < 1313120233 43819 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1313120238 111946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurray! i'm on my way to beating watson! < 1313120247 118852 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All but 8 of which are no-ops. < 1313120261 895236 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313120269 104012 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say 9 then < 1313120284 514444 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of syntactic sugar < 1313120295 441190 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im an idiot hence my questions can't actually challenge people < 1313120318 632152 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313120322 417022 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i could ask how many "petals" are there on each of the "flowers" on this coffee mug i just made a drink with < 1313120348 855831 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be NP hard I think < 1313120386 499687 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's actually a quite trivial counting problem that *happens* to rely on state that we don't possess. < 1313120409 604607 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine.. it's 5 ;_; < 1313120494 810622 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possessions of the state < 1313120687 636990 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Haskell-like type definition for the card types of Magic: the Gathering that I had given before is wrong, for a few reasons. One is that some things you select a card type, another is the way subtypes work is not quite like I said but there is some way of working still, and the game also has supertypes, etc < 1313120738 263905 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it also handle the multiple card-pieces on a single card? (e.g. split cards) < 1313120859 887253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, what I specified does not; however, I don't know if that belongs to the type definition for the card type. Note also that tokens can have card types. < 1313120960 626141 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A card type should correspond to the Magic "card" entity. < 1313120968 546932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do otherwise makes it a blatant lie. < 1313120980 143679 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note also that tokens are not card. < 1313120988 154188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cards, even. < 1313121120 275088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tokens can still have card types. Copies of spells could also have card types (if it were up to me, copies would also be tokens, but I don't think those are the rules) < 1313121164 613810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't card types. Those are just types. < 1313121187 136984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Magic: the Gathering just calls them types. < 1313121204 671778 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types apply to a wide variety of game objects, among them cards, permanents, and spells. < 1313121315 701579 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they do. < 1313121350 650601 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you really shouldn't conflate different game objects. < 1313121614 970279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1313121772 286386 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313122271 215136 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there is what Magic: the Gathering calls "object", so it is like "object type" I guess < 1313122311 636733 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty much. < 1313122335 194099 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, and this is important, what's on a given card in no way corresponds to the in-game object. < 1313122411 436865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the stuff written on the card corresponds to its "initial state". < 1313122443 289824 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only sometimes. < 1313122449 279072 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split and flip cards fuck that up. < 1313122615 677189 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was young i tried to do a street fighter 2 monopoly hybrid on paper < 1313122650 121068 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall how far i got < 1313122737 765062 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is one of the reasons why I consider the Magic: the Gathering rules to be klugy and messy. If I wrote the rules, there would be no state-based effect saying tokens cease to exist; instead, tokens simply would have no initial state so when a token moved it would be destroyed and there would be no initial state to create any object in the new zone from. < 1313122856 518585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make more sense at least to me; but too bad, that is not the rules. < 1313122876 769562 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make a lot of klugy rules for various reasons, one is because of old rules they try to keep compatibility with. < 1313122909 466247 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor banding. < 1313123125 698096 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I hope the programming language that I can invent (possibly with help) can be used not only to implement the actual Magic: the Gathering rules, but also the rules that I think they ought to have been. < 1313123147 158826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still like help, of someone understanding my concerns and these kind of programming stuff. < 1313123318 155229 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does random searching. from the magic patent. "Provided herein is a novel method of game play and game components that in one embodiment are in the form of trading cards (10, 12, 40, 42, 44, 48, 54, 60, 64). " < 1313123362 274643 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The patent has aroused criticism from some observers, who believe some of its claims to be invalid." < 1313123641 883071 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313123693 174497 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more patent-hate to be heard.. pastebinned to save channel spam http://pastebin.com/tDkAKYSM < 1313123733 729049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1313124116 428489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid or not, there are many related computer programs. I too believe it to be invalid but of course I don't know for sure. I don't like the patent either but eventually it expires anyways. Actually I dislike patents in general. < 1313125229 789840 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :raises interesting questions .. eg.. can you patent a ball game? < 1313125254 775835 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The patent office might let you patent anything < 1313125270 16390 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense now < 1313125516 946400 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1313125699 614090 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a patent on toast, why not a ball game? < 1313126029 806376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its all about the selling isn't it < 1313126294 394481 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm.. Garfield [who designed Magic] studied under Herbert Wilf and earned a Ph.D. in combinatorial mathematics from Penn in 1993. < 1313126333 421142 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1313126349 506264 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Dr. Richard Garfield is a professor of mathematics. < 1313126511 159227 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1313126651 377266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatronics seems to be the mathematics chasing buddha's tail < 1313126662 325801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313126675 181616 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. he was a smart monkey that buddha < 1313126831 981278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think random deck construction is a better game < 1313126906 890286 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well theres a quote here ''Impermanent are all compounded things.' < 1313126932 790615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotation from? < 1313127013 3563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Have you been able to consider my things I was asking about last time? I have added a lot of stuff since when I expect you to have last read it, if any < 1313127033 850478 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As well as correcting a few typing mistakes and clarifying some things better too) < 1313127062 474297 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Unfortunately not, I have been sidetracked by urgent business with the Pirate Party < 1313127115 317152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Can you tell me what stuff with the Pirate Party? I also have a few interests in those kind of things so I would like to know too. < 1313127229 10844 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Rewriting the constitution < 1313127260 128264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have more details? Is there anything wrong with the constitution? < 1313127260 447180 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: pardon me.. i want to stop me in my tracks before i do some ridiculous irrelevant rant :D < 1313127273 966561 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, many things < 1313127286 450353 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :most significantly, an unreasonable quorum < 1313127292 301909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I would think so, although I don't know the details really < 1313127296 898439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor how to correct it < 1313127302 187452 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on correcting it < 1313127309 496761 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1313127328 326257 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meetings are on the 19th of each month, so this needs to be done as soon as possible < 1313127451 303073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so you have less than 8 days I suppose! Can you tell me what your ideas are for reforming the constitution? Unfortunately I don't know much about the constitution. But I agree with the Pirate Party that patents are a bad idea in general. < 1313127650 834149 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree that internet is a fundamental human right. It is derived! Of course you can have the right, but it would be derived on many levels. More fundamental would be simply open communication across all these channels. Internet is one of them. But perhaps even these channels is somewhat, derived. But it is still a right. Just because is not fundamental doesn't mean you don't have that right. < 1313127747 723201 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1313128065 977881 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :carmack attacked patents in his keynote question time < 1313128131 233678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i recall correctly he called them parasites < 1313128146 528828 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and went on to repeat twice "everybody knows it!" < 1313128155 635889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. Patents serve precisely one purpose in the modern day and age: rent-seeking. < 1313128165 194415 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it very publically < 1313128179 939552 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know ... < 1313128188 836434 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is, still, only anything surprising to people who don't pay attention to tech. < 1313128191 477117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a smart guy.. (on account of being in #esolang) < 1313128206 121898 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know.. < 1313128208 739740 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that.. < 1313128224 651534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are like an altar made of wood < 1313128226 697462 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents directly harm most still-developing fields of technology. To the point that, because of them, it is illegal for me to write a non-trivial program. < 1313128237 853939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :onto which the rich can store their gold < 1313128243 774142 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the rich. < 1313128249 122550 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1313128258 900045 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we collapse this altar of wood < 1313128268 169173 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :things will get ugly < 1313128285 159611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May their wealth-at-the-expense-of-all-else burn. < 1313128292 859495 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It isn't for me to change < 1313128294 999189 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't say.. oh look, the peasants have raided our riches. let's play some more polo < 1313128317 448467 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there will be a counter < 1313128326 465485 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be swift and fierce < 1313128332 266209 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you think that they're just fucking around right now? < 1313128354 221756 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is... their power is not a product of patents < 1313128365 522481 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are merely an expression of their power < 1313128379 734073 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you hadn't noticed, many corporations are acting in concert to burn a country to the ground, gaining wealth, and moving on. As a matter of policy. < 1313128403 806132 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They won't "retaliate", they'll carry on as they have been. < 1313128433 562006 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is this other idea i should consider < 1313128467 364120 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the balance of society is the recognition of who owns what < 1313128488 178499 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of mental application of intangible properties to objects < 1313128519 150585 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a door is an entry and exit point < 1313128539 212595 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fork is for food < 1313128543 889319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rug is for carpet < 1313128561 253612 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a baseball bat is for sports and it is also a weapon < 1313128593 583412 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :being in a violent state of mind, the violent one maintains these mental bindings < 1313128601 716999 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what is a weapon and what is not < 1313128601 882739 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: your comments about patents are far from true in non-software industries < 1313128620 311572 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. projectiles can become weapons during anger < 1313128637 432891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that is a swap of things < 1313128660 739500 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, it applies to all industries, due to patents being so utterly incomprehensible that the only thing they do is "for 20 years this is mine, pay me." < 1313128671 201532 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since projectiles are normally not weapons.. however... projectiles are usually well established long before they are ever thrown < 1313128681 257519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's not true of all industries < 1313128685 634918 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one has an anticipated expectation of the weight of an object < 1313128696 130766 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have spoken with patent lawyers about this < 1313128717 432606 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is of my opinion that patent laws ought to be abolished so that nobody can patent anything, but I am not an expert and making laws and maybe there needs to be some transition time. I don't know exactly what the provisions of the transition time would be. < 1313128728 887784 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that is to say, patents are the weapon of the corporations < 1313128731 563147 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *especially* damnable with exponential growth occuring. < 1313128749 850347 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patent laws actually do serve a useful purpose in sectors where production costs are significant < 1313128765 361357 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you see.. one corporation to another.. they need to keep a protocol among them... that.. "i can strike at you with patents, you can strike at me with patents" < 1313128772 551251 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they protect small players from having their products duplicated faster and cheaper from larger players < 1313128779 669884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patent laws may have served in the past. But today I think patents is just very bad in general < 1313128806 520302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, the myth of the small company with a patent. This would be applicable if our legal system wasn't most-money-wins. < 1313128820 777568 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, it is. < 1313128856 578515 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically.. corporations enjoy the knowledge that they each hold patents against each other.. it is a stable battleground < 1313128882 624741 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. its like theres no hidden plasma ray < 1313128900 515935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no thats not what i mean < 1313128908 850883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if you win, you lose, because you have legal fees to pay) < 1313128954 260915 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, each company accepts that it is best to not rock the boat.. none of them want to fight over acquisition of a new weapon to fight each other with < 1313128955 204647 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ours isn't < 1313128982 399487 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, seriously, the other sectors are not abusing patents the same way software is < 1313128997 145555 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there are lots of statistics about this < 1313129011 808085 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ok for example.. there is a protocol for gang violence... they have a tendancy to not use a lot of bombs and grenades as i understand it.. its mostly knives and guns < 1313129020 163492 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I see you're not familiar with Monsanto suing farmers for Monsanto GM'd crops cross-pollinating. < 1313129027 433421 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And winning. < 1313129028 642337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes software patents are in fact much worse than others, but I still think patents bad in general for a lot of things < 1313129041 366662 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm quite familiar with that case < 1313129051 31621 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Familiar enough to know that it was deliberate on the part of the farmer < 1313129076 631197 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It was not cross-pollination; the farmer was deliberately harvesting and replanting crop that had grown on his side of the fence < 1313129169 595807 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Supreme Court basically said "This case would be very different if it weren't deliberate" < 1313129176 274622 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can see the patent system is completely bad. < 1313129216 436985 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be in favor of having a short transition time and then completely abolishing patents. < 1313129243 393982 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow or agree < 1313129328 988559 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313129484 272547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it would help to have many exceptions about patents, such as that there is no penalty for private or personal use, and that documentation itself is not patented, and that perhaps patents would only apply in case of large volumes of sales that they would force to pay a royalty and require specific text on their product in certain conditions, and so on. And/or even something that prevents patents from hindering any free-software/open-sour < 1313129490 323187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did it get cut off?) < 1313129494 758597 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1313129503 179120 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation cannot be patended < 1313129513 6553 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, patents should be of more limited scop < 1313129517 244557 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scope < 1313129523 922310 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should also have a lesser duration < 1313129538 968344 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree to that as well; they should have a lesser duration as well. < 1313129553 224283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did it get cut off? < 1313129577 365701 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :open-source < 1313129582 507141 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it was "hindering any free-software/open-sour" however wait for a second opinion < 1313129587 677329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... software and even hardware. < 1313129635 25889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there are cases where free-software/open-source is not even related to computer) < 1313129971 69191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps something based on the four Stallman freedoms and the Open Source Definition, if this would help at all in determining some parts of patent reform. Or, in other words, if you respect everyone's freedom you are not sued by patents. But maybe in case of things other than computer software (or data), there would also be something having to do with the production costs and that kind of costs and stuff, which complicates it a bit. < 1313130217 421008 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1313130291 34628 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313130630 525414 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313132010 192694 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be in three channels on Freenode. Now I'm on 16. Thanks, #haskell and #esoteric < 1313132029 130606 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1313132031 1864 :plat0!~tom@81.187.0.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313132047 373155 :plat0!~tom@81.187.0.149 PART :#esoteric < 1313132082 768227 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one ever talks in #haskell-in-depth < 1313132140 308159 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I went through Freenode's channel list in alphabetical order to somewhere around c or d, flagging potentially interesting-sounding channels I might consider joining (currently only on #esoteric and one #esoteric-spinoff); then I accidentally lost the file somewhere and gave up. < 1313132162 509746 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be more efficient to go from alrgest to smallest < 1313132189 500129 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatashuWarg: I don't see how, since there's the same number of channels to consider, no matter how you order them. < 1313132204 172794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small channels are stupid, is the thing < 1313132221 67206 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller channel = less likelyhood of activity < 1313132226 60676 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you never know. < 1313132226 335539 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's -spinoff is it any good < 1313132235 100466 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do indeed never know < 1313132236 938416 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have only finite time < 1313132312 620143 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the IRCnet side of the fence I'm on two channels where I'm the only person ever. (Except about twice a year someone else /joins, comments something like "oh, this channel seems to have died?", and /parts. < 1313132317 309897 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the best channels. < 1313132347 451548 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this "chatting" nonsense. < 1313132354 882583 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the only person ever in #typography < 1313132359 120298 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the other day < 1313132372 70450 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When jocom from #haskell was in < 1313132484 297090 :joe6!~joe6@c-76-20-251-41.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313132511 935114 :joe6!~joe6@c-76-20-251-41.hsd1.ga.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1313133210 315954 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-110-119.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313135432 9511 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313135907 513624 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229096202.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackaday.com/2011/06/17/homebrew-ttl-logic-computer/ < 1313136107 231373 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1313136467 927615 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313136495 739617 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313136902 732788 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is utterly epic. < 1313136990 642927 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313137251 140993 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313137366 484288 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313137495 691388 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning! < 1313137629 129733 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313137858 631416 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313137885 642099 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313137980 560646 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229096202.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1313138092 550416 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313139316 346153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313139372 384646 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-110-119.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: Sleep. -.- < 1313139480 585664 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229096202.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1313139533 884306 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1313139766 224059 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313140707 722895 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313140998 775426 :Taneb_!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313141006 619381 :Taneb_!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PART :#esoteric < 1313141030 306697 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313141230 177442 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313141381 308679 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313142471 724935 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313142610 176818 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313143099 965411 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313143102 419570 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.105 QUIT :Changing host < 1313143102 491884 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313143388 286541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so I think I'm going to write this program in C# < 1313143408 656504 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Mono doesn't have complete support for Windows Presentation Foundation, so.. maybe I should find a different GUI toolkit. < 1313143625 909307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, GTK# is what I want. < 1313144262 677117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK# is okayish. Better than GTK from C IMO < 1313144306 48915 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK# might well be the most popular thing for GUIfying stuff in Mono. < 1313144385 155437 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of Gtk#'s documentation is not quite there, though. < 1313144461 789060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really surprising that GTK is the most-supported GUI toolkit for Mono, given the relevant history < 1313144462 329604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1313144465 685438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1313144466 56531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 26d 10h 12m 57s ago: Request a copy of the wiki page "100_free_dutch_dating_sites_2008". < 1313144466 389361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover said 11h 14m 37s ago: BtW, you've been voted out of office in DF. < 1313144487 592476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suspect there is more than one ais523 involved < 1313144530 586217 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also personally I think WPF is really bizarroid. But I suppose that might just be the unfamiliarity. It's just that I've seen rather horrible XAML/C# messes.) < 1313144636 803819 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, by "doesn't have complete support", don't you mean "no support at all"? < 1313144738 469719 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313144776 334898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Where did the "523" come from? < 1313144795 962756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a random number < 1313144796 544576 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I suppose the first 522 clones were somehow unsuitable. < 1313144806 293706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to give me a different name from all the other ais'es < 1313144811 985014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire username was computer-generated < 1313144834 3835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly a better choice than WPF, which is pretty much portable to... Windows. < 1313145024 513698 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313145698 511961 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be tricky? < 1313145709 524720 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making an interpreter in Inform 7 < 1313145759 201899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do arithmetic? I can't remember < 1313145765 465959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it did, a Deadfish interp wouldn't be too hard < 1313145765 633786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interpreter of what? < 1313145773 583762 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any interpreter < 1313145808 528004 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZBefunge is written in Inform Something, I don't know about the versions. < 1313145811 834687 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://flourish.org/zbefunge/ < 1313145831 417216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the first Befunge(93) interpreter I ever used; I have warm feelings towards it.) < 1313145838 32673 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1313145842 569809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's Inform 6 < 1313145867 703346 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be; it's old-ish. < 1313145948 175416 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1313146054 287565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inform 6 and 7 have basically no similarities < 1313146072 77435 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inform 7 is built on inform 6 < 1313146084 273270 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles into inform 6, I think < 1313146093 130078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, INTERCAL compiles into C < 1313146098 584211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean the two languages are similar in any way < 1313146110 414774 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1313146112 662581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they're more similar than inform 6 and inform 7, because at least they have a vaguely related paradigm) < 1313146774 576365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've set [a Reddit bot] free in /r/politics. It's a relatively primitive version of Eliza that simply takes the context of the post and randomly assigns blame or shortcomings to predetermined targets (e.g., Bush, Republicans, etc.). When it can't infer context, it simply doesn't post. (I found that responding with something too general made people suspicious.) The real fun was taking an old lisp implementation & porting it to haskell & playing < 1313146776 29713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ its HTTP package. So far it's worked pretty well. Right now it has a comment karma more than 10x mine. < 1313146777 572036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1313146784 513082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he's keeping the username secret for obvious reasons < 1313147275 996201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1313147297 162190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I love the bit aboutthe 10x comment karma < 1313147310 127086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the* < 1313147873 132807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313147890 589348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn. < 1313147896 530046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left a torrent throttled overnight. < 1313148280 872356 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know have a watch that points in every direction but North < 1313148289 666833 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm going out now, bye < 1313148291 769324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: He's a big quitter he is. < 1313148306 581956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1313148395 713555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAINBOW < 1313148971 606299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does anyone here know of ATS (a language that isn't meant to be eso, but may as well be)? < 1313148975 174663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's some code: http://www.ats-lang.org/EXAMPLE/MISC/quicksort_list_dats.html < 1313149105 606751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the homepage is effectively saying "look how great our language is, it only took us ten years to write quicksort" < 1313149111 774202 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of it, yes < 1313149128 567498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have opinions on it yet? < 1313149133 746859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the formally-verified one, yes? < 1313149137 71037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only just seen it, so I don't yet < 1313149139 485179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's more or less it < 1313149171 268135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically, you write both an imperativish and a functionallish program, in such a way that you prove they do the same thing < 1313149176 857323 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ran into it first when it was at the top of the shootout < 1313149194 258159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's that they took 10 years to write quicksort, but that they took 10 years to write a formally-verified quicksort. < 1313149197 630305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then once they do the same thing, it deletes the functionallish one and just runse the imperativish one < 1313149199 948261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, yes < 1313149207 74557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the whole point of the language < 1313149227 939745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's... preternaturally ugly. < 1313149269 731643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do indeed find it hard to read < 1313149275 791661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's effectively an esolang, and they're all like that < 1313149292 242333 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks more interesting than most esolangs on the wiki < 1313149297 77567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1313149305 5171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average standard of the wiki is really low < 1313149310 922613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, so does a pile of dead leaves. < 1313149316 91832 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :( < 1313149321 394272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd expect it to be, given that the wiki tries to codify everything < 1313149395 584070 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category:Above Average < 1313149446 65844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as we define average as median, and make sure it's always on exactly half the languages, I'm for < 1313149520 265893 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category:Significantly Above Average < 1313149550 280822 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shameful is my favourite category < 1313149560 593137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a real category < 1313149563 813273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it officially doesn't exist < 1313149566 234630 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I doubt half the languages are even interesting) < 1313149569 472779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I like it too < 1313149768 723317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm going to go on Special:Randompage a bit and list the first ten languages I come across < 1313149774 618315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can debate about how many of them are interesting < 1313149915 999158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UniCode, 0x29A, Yo, Gibberish, Java2K, MailBox, BytePusher, Version, Ozone, ParrBF < 1313150135 561752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UniCode has too little content to be interesting < 1313150298 855079 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x29A seems interesting enough, doesn't seem like an obvious rehash of anything to me < 1313150379 42663 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo is about as uninteresting as it gets < 1313150379 273722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x29A is a bit weird < 1313150383 630633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels deficient, in some way < 1313150390 651856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo is in the same category as LOLCODE, I think < 1313150395 202055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only even less interesting < 1313150454 18715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gibberish is like a less interesting Unefunge < 1313150467 741577 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313150487 169778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java2K I have a personal dislike for, it has an interesting idea but a poor execution of it < 1313150527 391298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0x29A, Java2K, and BytePusher are the only languages on that list I recognised, and Java2K is the only one where I actually remembered what it was about) < 1313150578 645601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MailBox is thematic, and seems to use a paradigm pretty rare among esolangs < 1313150590 724413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not convinced it does anything interesting with it < 1313150622 995506 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still call Java2K interesting even if it's executed poorly < 1313150635 792412 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed on Gibberish < 1313150698 57889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BytePusher I'm not even sure how to classify < 1313150706 563846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MailBox seems fine < 1313150709 644758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an uninteresting OISC, except that it seems to allow for low-level hardware access < 1313150775 199938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version's one of cpressey's, and it's more of a tarpitisation of INTERCAL than anything else < 1313150784 356722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with better string handling < 1313150798 243615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly above-average for esolangs in general < 1313151014 965106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ozone is vaguely reminiscent of Underload < 1313151258 479953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ParrBF is a limited version of BF; more interesting than most of the /other/ limited versions of BF, but not by much < 1313151264 262902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that was a better set of results than I was expecting < 1313151858 376404 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1313152992 955103 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313153068 38237 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, today's IWC < 1313153185 995860 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is it better to construct a UI manually or to use one of the graphical editors that various IDEs have? < 1313153212 347954 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends how good you are < 1313153216 705284 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the visual aspect, that is. event code will always be... coded. < 1313153227 411807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no real UI experience. :P < 1313153234 850787 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1313153242 932875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean me neither < 1313153250 254670 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter then. < 1313153261 246850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I figure it will be easier at least. < 1313153271 785268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering if it produces ugly code that would be made less ugly if done manually. < 1313153287 181072 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly < 1313153380 235845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that the GUI editors are only really useful if you already know how to do it manually < 1313153389 986220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can use them to generate the code with less typing < 1313154358 785276 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1313154359 281664 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1313154372 356458 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1313154638 773576 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idea i've had: http://pastebin.com/m3avwkxb < 1313154716 57059 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think, if anything < 1313154726 232904 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nodes can not only be A,B,C, they can be of any name) < 1313154751 104803 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. right. there's also a default Store and Compare value of True and of False < 1313154805 898646 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1313155050 412599 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more idea, Copy B for node running it to become node B, keeping only the name < 1313155053 919454 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :CopyAction to copy just the action < 1313155057 574891 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :CopyCompare to... you get the idea < 1313155058 948644 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :really afk now < 1313155382 951139 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313157043 970056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc < 1313157051 741829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something was stuck in my keyboard < 1313157064 351793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as normal, I didn't bother deleting the keys pressed as I tried to clear it out < 1313157076 212532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it was in another channel, so I had to cut/paste it over to #esoteric... < 1313157213 947275 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're not here. < 1313157218 346794 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- genius < 1313157372 725286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: he logreads, so that statement is not entirely useless < 1313157374 385713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mostly < 1313157614 785084 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As punishment for you're being here, I'm telling you this anecdote: Yesterday I accidentally uninstalled dash, coreutils, grep, sed, tar, dpkg and apt. Then, I fixed my system. < 1313157633 50806 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you're/your/ ... I think? < 1313157636 800597 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a weird "your" < 1313157645 961695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, "your", "being" there is a gerund not a participle < 1313157650 404086 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "you" is what I wanted. < 1313157657 977723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're using it as a noun < 1313157670 217340 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, grammar aside :P < 1313157703 29935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of things to accidentally uninstall < 1313157705 915695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it specifically that set? < 1313157719 934197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thing I notice is that you probably still have a shell, even though you don't have dash < 1313157732 201397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's maybe less important < 1313157740 38439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you likely have a shell open to do the accidental uninstall < 1313157752 987072 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I still had bash. < 1313157756 578355 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was specifically that set. < 1313157760 795088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you also still have wget, in that case < 1313157770 886787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still have sudo < 1313157782 467202 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I was TRYING to do was install something in a debootstrap, then uninstall all the core garbage I don't actually want, so I just ended up with the something I wanted and its dependencies. < 1313157786 745873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just sudo wget the executables right onto your filesystem < 1313157793 307653 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally unintalled the core garbage on the host instead of the guest >_> < 1313157802 907124 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Didn't have chmod though < 1313157810 482971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, so they wouldn't be executable < 1313157818 135030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use any of the other methods for changing permissions, then < 1313157826 3930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a slideshow with about 10 of them < 1313157855 199056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one that came to mind for me now is the Perl one-liner < 1313157884 220737 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313157894 255821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some other clever ones, like using ld-linux.so to run a nonexecutable versions of chmod, or copying an existing executable and overwriting its contents but not metadata < 1313157905 891348 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1313157909 844074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one I've used before now is to copy to a VFAT filesystem and back, that sets the executable bit if it isn't mounted noexec < 1313157939 640466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what method did you use? < 1313157958 653445 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm trying to remember which I used first X-D < 1313157972 629301 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Once I had tar, I just let tar do it, but I forget how I got tar working ... ) < 1313157978 707232 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313157983 309645 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH that's right hah < 1313157986 597621 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still had ssh and scp :P < 1313157992 613922 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just scp'd the tar binary from another computer < 1313157997 191967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so you scped an executable < 1313158002 598555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scp set the executable bit as a result < 1313158005 278054 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1313158009 717301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough < 1313158022 732138 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I had to refetch all the .deb packages and extract them, then install them properly :P < 1313158034 817485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think there's a big scary confirm for trying to uninstall anything marked essential < 1313158044 469692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, you probably overrode that because your debootstrap would have to < 1313158058 252313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that always scare me: mke2fs needs a force option to operate on a regular file < 1313158069 82013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really don't like forcing a command that's designed to reformat your hard drive < 1313158087 358406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(luckily, I can run it as non-root, which reduces the potential for accidents by quite a lot) < 1313158136 784085 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I overrode that because I thought I was doing it in a chroot :P < 1313158178 999955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how easy is it to detect if you're in a chroot, if you aren't root? < 1313158194 967088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not breaking out of it, just discovering if you're in one < 1313158223 657739 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not easy. What I'd probably do is check the process list and see if the files don't seem to conform to my filesystem. < 1313158241 253758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a relatively simple way would be to check /proc; if it isn't there, you're probably in a chroot, if /proc/1/cwd isn't / (verifying by trying to visit from it), you're probably in a chroot < 1313158259 368845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use a separate PID namespace to get out of that < 1313158726 620167 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1313158824 171869 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1313160427 743777 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m3avwkxb what do you think < 1313160906 67310 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313162136 898505 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1313162583 544821 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313163195 934814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just so you know, I'm currently engineering for your successor as mayor to meet with an unfortunate accident. < 1313163207 72547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313163215 191657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the voted-out me is still fine? < 1313163226 140020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does voting out get combined with an unfortunate accident in #esoteric DF? < 1313163257 347312 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do unfortunate accidents < 1313163273 806134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last time I tried, it was a bit too unfortunate. < 1313163284 675615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened? < 1313163286 933788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like DF stories < 1313163291 829806 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flooded the entire fortress. < 1313163314 116177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1313163380 63998 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Don't use a river to flood a room. Use a pit/pond zone < 1313163687 876424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313163766 686170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313163937 183416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...Don't use a river to flood a room. Use a pit/pond zone < 1313163945 18412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being very, very careful about it. < 1313163972 734113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the extent of having 2 doors and a floodgate between the room and the fortress, as well as a J-tube. < 1313164010 523411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, elliott is probably going to mess it up as soon as I pass control to him, but whatever. < 1313164069 628442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313164125 85876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313164739 107424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313164773 275096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313164903 64612 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313165065 302331 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, there seems to be nowhere I can get free linux/ubuntu stickers. < 1313165071 458267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jesus we're being offered to become a barony. < 1313165078 914363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong channel, but whatever. < 1313165087 848379 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313165188 812649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Dwarf Fortress. < 1313165237 955108 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric DF? < 1313165238 834253 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313165243 355415 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did DF get multiplayer < 1313165369 284382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, succession fort. < 1313168553 630769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1313168653 824266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313168722 223849 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was a magician I would want as ultimate ideal to never perform the same trick to an audience twice < 1313169403 68673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just saw someone explain a Chuck Norris joke on Slashdot < 1313169407 499524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those jokes need explaining? seriously? < 1313169422 697674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is independent of whether you think they're funny or not) < 1313169841 826657 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1313170776 94621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1313170846 652834 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C768.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313171534 978264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313171720 833353 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313171871 993743 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313171958 933791 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313172017 782270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filesharingz.com/community/topic/197185-and-when-even-the-death-penalty-doesn%E2%80%99t-deter-copying-%E2%80%94-what-then/ < 1313172039 150476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite the URL < 1313172079 974426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's like, the least reputable URL for a fairly reputable article < 1313172093 755561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torrentfreak.com/and-when-even-the-death-penalty-doesnt-deter-copying-what-then-110807/, written by Rick Falkvinge, founder of the Swedish Pirate Party < 1313172130 509882 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh down the bottom it says "News Source: Torrent Freak " < 1313172264 92992 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also liked http://torrentfreak.com/former-google-cio-limewire-pirates-were-itunes-best-customers-110726/ < 1313172428 109651 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dynamic DNS and multi protocol use, and even the invention of Hypernet, so hopefully my file and speech are more difficult to be censored anyways; I also encourage copying instead of discourage which is another thing to help possibly. < 1313172457 74119 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have circa 700 books. Some secondhand, some new. 49 playstation 2 games. over 100 dvds. 10 dvd box sets. A bunch of audio cds. A bunch of magazines. a $300 dictionary. a $200 8 volume comicbook. From when I worked at a carwash basically. < 1313172469 950364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BILLING SUMMARY < 1313172470 23778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------- < 1313172470 23979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIOR BALANCE: $-10.67 < 1313172470 24104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------- < 1313172470 24221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW BALANCE: $-10.67 < 1313172476 223737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicehost, why are you emailing me for this < 1313172484 996915 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I chase cheap deals sometimes like books which libraries sell off < 1313172506 420889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypernet is intended nobody can possibly terminate your service, because there is no service to terminate! < 1313172521 383610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey pikhq, go pretend tup's lack of technical C standard compliance is an issue to you so that somebody pays attention to my post < 1313172524 835530 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. it is not that I haven't liked spending money in the past.. < 1313172628 794486 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like copying because it makes possible what is not at all possible for an individual to otherwise do legally < 1313172750 703949 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what can be copied, you may ask.. what can be copied? The only thing that can be copied is a work which has been completed. < 1313172783 740961 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :A work which can be copied is one which sets a person up to live indulgantly on some past accomplishment indefinitely. < 1313172821 954715 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether this is a good thing or not is hard to ascertain < 1313172889 917471 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minion who is working on something such as a programmer working on a game or an animator working on a film etc doesn't even get any rights to that thing they work on < 1313172907 744939 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313172956 860777 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just get a salary < 1313173058 516946 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1313173068 697542 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So most of the time it is the company which owns a copyright, which i guess does go some way to alieviating the former problem < 1313173110 648198 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what was the former problem? < 1313173186 369001 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok so.. someone creates something one day. Now the next day they can lay on the beach sunbaking waiting for people to pay for what the person made on the one day < 1313173206 680533 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-94.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313173290 325392 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they become potentially idle. Their contribution to society has been made. Now they have nothing more to give. < 1313173348 406551 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in practice, the main ones who owns such works are companies. < 1313173383 776443 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the individuals who can get rich off one creation are rare. < 1313173413 433538 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a company cannot simply exist by maintaiing it's current level of money < 1313173435 911105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to constantly increase for the shareholders. < 1313173445 505025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313173474 482145 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the shareholders.. their price is being at the mercy of risk < 1313173534 797454 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: true.. this is why they constantly invent more copyrights.. they are copyrighting pieces of whatever we can see around us.. < 1313173563 650687 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no point.. i am merely nutting out the logic of this as i go < 1313173565 103128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me more < 1313173570 600937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say i don't know the point < 1313173596 746542 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily < 1313173752 903606 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what it means is that copy protection creates an inefficency whereby companies contribute less because they can sort of ride on the wave of their past accomplishments < 1313173783 759295 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems to be at odds with the fact that companies would gut each other if they had the chance. < 1313173818 34892 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are assuming that corporations are rational actors. < 1313173827 710679 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are perhaps the least rational actors. < 1313173851 460382 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : the competition wihch would result from no copy protection would probably create huge ineffiencies < 1313173876 489947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as it is, there are no huge inefficiencies, of course < 1313173900 309725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. i grudgingly accept from my analysis that the system is not so bad < 1313173910 587672 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.0 < 1313173953 571415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313173969 252593 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you see... i don't like the kind of system which is driven by financial goals < 1313173977 880207 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by efficiency you mean that companies won't stop until the resources are used up, then yes, they are efficient < 1313174008 844977 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just getting lost among my ideas now < 1313174043 776191 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :good.. it means you are sane for the time being < 1313174049 737800 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry guys.. yeah I have an alternative line of thought sort of going on < 1313174078 989298 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think up a system that actually works perfectly.. but my utopia is something like < 1313174083 255938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do companies have to grow all the time. That isn't sustainable < 1313174092 35341 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness is related to boredom! < 1313174107 547957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you realise quintopia was being sarcastic right < 1313174119 199584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say bazinga < 1313174125 191661 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i do now. lol < 1313174128 504798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because stupid. < 1313174143 735504 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313174146 983795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but if you would ever reach 100%, then what < 1313174156 702133 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At present, our entire economic system does not *handle* a lack of growth at all. < 1313174164 736839 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the lorax on my pc < 1313174171 134342 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stole it < 1313174172 588961 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1313174180 225871 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It straight-up makes the assumption that growth tends to be positive. < 1313174191 890624 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him < 1313174203 391634 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than having a (potentially-unknown) upper bound. < 1313174207 573581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him < 1313174210 589134 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :584) now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him < 1313174220 641659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, lorax? < 1313174226 945020 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr. geisel will not be please < 1313174228 694702 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the lorax < 1313174229 112265 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not "tends".. there are just two things: 1. growth 2. crisis < 1313174231 458445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1313174231 957244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, what is it < 1313174238 974176 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1313174244 588153 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good question < 1313174246 886565 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: There is a 3rd option, unconsidered. < 1313174252 238037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: No growth is possible. < 1313174268 51140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik, what about a stand-still? < 1313174271 612093 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that falls under crisis < 1313174281 551888 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corporations just flail horribly when they hit this. < 1313174284 819314 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the third option will never be considered.. you named it right < 1313174312 418385 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically causing significant harm to the company, oddly enoughj. < 1313174330 519595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not just accept it, and maintain status quo < 1313174339 596687 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Corporations are not rational actors. < 1313174358 777138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why couldn't some company be rational? < 1313174371 753517 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not entirely irrational.. they are completely predictable < 1313174380 113152 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: Predictable != rational. < 1313174389 871941 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good enough for analysis < 1313174395 353556 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a method to their madness < 1313174410 820033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik, yes but do you not know what "rational actor" means? < 1313174430 519682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing things makes it harder to make grand, sweeping statements, Vorpal < 1313174441 29254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1313174459 309901 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you mean it in relation to game theory, that's not a good concept to use in economy < 1313174470 669508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik, I know the term from AI theory < 1313174477 861554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that was the term pikhq used < 1313174479 226736 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313174488 27113 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1313174491 507264 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1313174495 639530 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1313174497 376261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not term. I mean "meaning" < 1313174502 369814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Rational choice is... not from any AI theory. < 1313174517 530112 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have seen Slumdog Millionare < 1313174527 899189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well true, I first ran into the term in an AI context though. < 1313174538 867345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so i guess it is from game theory in this case < 1313174552 612979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from economics. < 1313174555 384732 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with game theory when applied to economics is that in game theory the players know the game.. in real-life economy the players hardly know anything about the game < 1313174565 463334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not familiar with it in that context < 1313174576 328378 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have the lorax text but i have an audio version so i will interpret from there < 1313174578 209492 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idea i've had: http://pastebin.com/m3avwkxb < 1313174589 825910 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho they sure think it's a game < 1313174593 583926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you never answered what "lorax" is < 1313174611 692571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: so what do you think of esolangs < 1313174640 782524 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At the far end of town where the grickle grass grows, and the wind smells slow and sour when it blows and no birds ever sing excepting old crows... < 1313174645 338434 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: upload lorax to internet or something so we can all take a look at it < 1313174657 574404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, a poem? < 1313174697 730188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: The typical *assumption* in economics is that entities are rational actors. < 1313174704 633252 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Can you explain your idea to me? < 1313174706 939957 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, of course, is inherently flawed. < 1313174714 673440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: ? < 1313174715 7112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, okay googled it. So a book < 1313174722 724737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, why couldn't you just have said that < 1313174730 939878 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb it's an esolang based on these simple nodes < 1313174734 811408 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like assuming frictional pullies. It makes shit easier, but it also makes shit not always *work*. < 1313174734 893860 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that is a typical sign of a typically bad economist.. don't read further < 1313174735 149719 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i want to explain what the actual lorax is.. but its a slow response < 1313174741 47408 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a node can autorun and/or be triggered by another node < 1313174744 546028 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frictionless, even. < 1313174747 159492 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :autorun = every tick, it's started < 1313174748 245017 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reading about the thing on wikipedia right now :) < 1313174758 503391 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tick is incremented after all autoruns/fired nodes were ran < 1313174761 628720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: Umm, you don't know what esolangs are? < 1313174764 595062 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nodes have a Compare and Action segment < 1313174765 678481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: Then why are you in this channel? < 1313174769 155161 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: In case you hadn't noticed, I've been *stating* that it's a bad assumption. :) < 1313174780 39863 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare - the nodes that should be checked for their values < 1313174787 330265 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActionTrue/ActionFalse - what to do when Compare returns True/False < 1313174787 665549 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: cool < 1313174795 141934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: This is an esolang channel after all... < 1313174798 947052 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Sounds interesting < 1313174801 663281 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Action commands are Fire, Store and StorePrev < 1313174804 958335 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire - call another node < 1313174816 818894 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you sound smart sometimes.. i am a linguist.. it is somewhat related to esoteric languages :) < 1313174819 799986 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Store - always last command, stores the value of the node mentioned as its own (also stops parsing other commands) < 1313174829 904303 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by default it stores the Compare result) < 1313174836 727876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: did you think this channel was about esoterica like most people.....? < 1313174844 928160 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :StorePrev - always last, stores the value of the node mentioned before firing it or comparing it < 1313174851 738886 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked, you can make an LFSR in it < 1313174854 140649 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably more < 1313174871 678796 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also plan to add a HiddenCompare < 1313174871 861733 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: i have been here long enough by now.. i know what it is about and i keep returning < 1313174873 951475 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make an article on the wiki? < 1313174881 443894 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :which won't save the result as the node's value < 1313174886 654769 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb i will once I have an interpreter < 1313174889 58666 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i need a name < 1313174897 309024 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need an interpreter < 1313174901 115903 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to! < 1313174914 430134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make an article and someone else may make an interpreter < 1313174917 997951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically the lorax is a small creature who lives in a place where business comes along and uses up all the resources, and he tries to talk reason with them < 1313174920 63956 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i will tomorrow < 1313174924 781944 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :or today, even < 1313174938 811667 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need a name < 1313174970 879856 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he has all the wonder that a dr seuss character tends to have < 1313175056 769148 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313175067 929849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I see < 1313175093 232202 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cool story... they made an animation about it, as they did for many of his stories < 1313175194 837543 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been told I look like a Dr Seuss character < 1313175271 523962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By people who have never seen Dr Seuss characters, I assume. < 1313175304 87540 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anthony Hopkins as the Onceler < 1313175320 260132 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1313175322 266703 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then, I almost did < 1313175338 367351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they did do a live action movie of the grinch and the cat in the hat < 1313175347 441329 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they could do the lorax < 1313175366 493134 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of the onceler, i have a passage about him here: < 1313175380 210482 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He stays in his Lerkim on top of his store. < 1313175380 803898 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He lurks in his Lerkim, cold under the roof, < 1313175380 876295 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he makes his own clothes < 1313175380 876489 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of miff-muffered moof. < 1313175395 748506 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oops didnt remove linebreaks properly < 1313175461 729469 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313176131 849428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is miff-muffered moof? < 1313176184 209330 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a tough question < 1313176212 684282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote What is miff-muffered moof? that's a tough question < 1313176213 927876 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :585) What is miff-muffered moof? that's a tough question < 1313176282 442351 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313176498 541025 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio version was by ted danson.. i can't complain. he does good < 1313176518 713722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett is the new mayor, BtW. < 1313176539 315970 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of what? < 1313176564 716282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the Dwarf Fortress fort we're running. < 1313176586 336652 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Excellent. < 1313176589 879523 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these audio books is by john cleese < 1313176600 208955 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will I die in a lava chamber? < 1313176643 1514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover has already killed the last two in succession. < 1313176651 45049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, I would hire a bodyguard. < 1313176667 157900 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1313176670 116182 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only killed one! < 1313176672 812084 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some scuba gear < 1313176677 639584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to Lymia then < 1313176679 884338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I drowned him!! < 1313176688 190388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't gotten around to drowning her yet. < 1313176693 41474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Basically what I am saying is don't demand anything be made out of platinum or adamantium or anything else we've made. < 1313176697 340962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, so it was just an election. < 1313176698 858627 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're my bodyguard. If I die in lava, I want you to die in lava, too. < 1313176708 145475 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 was a good mair < 1313176710 315821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No sorry I am too busy building myself the best bedroom. < 1313176713 622763 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mair/mayor/ < 1313176714 335813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And killing PH. < 1313176715 43253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting the drain fitted to the rooms, though. < 1313176718 469625 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He like low boots and copper < 1313176718 550726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And destroying Taneb's bedroom. < 1313176722 361138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You mean ais53. < 1313176726 508932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's an earlier iteration. < 1313176728 459617 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1313176733 198959 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, I only have one choice. < 1313176744 847886 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to punch every dwarf in this fortress, causing a tantrum spiral. < 1313176755 686411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants tin items. < 1313176759 482695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'll just lock up most of them < 1313176760 47203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no tin on this map. < 1313176766 547485 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIN OR YOU DIE. < 1313176768 194217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Kill time < 1313176780 18604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You should see what we do to the elf traders. < 1313176795 126884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Seize all their items and then kill them. You think the elf blood everywhere in the trading depot would tip them off.) < 1313176801 254408 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C768.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313176941 845288 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they didn't recognize it is elf blood? Or maybe it evaporated? < 1313176966 284435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't evaporate, it's still on the item list if you look at it < 1313176969 297627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's soaked the walls < 1313176983 801750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But elves are dumb anyway < 1313176995 920290 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elves don't know what elf blood is. < 1313177010 843597 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't actually have any sharp objects. < 1313177039 762288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1313177045 383033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are their swords made out of BLUNT wood? < 1313177059 701357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they just fight by giving everyone splinters. < 1313177280 129947 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb any name ideas for that esolang concept of mine? < 1313177284 727131 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1313177295 271814 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could call it binod < 1313177299 434868 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, I generally think of a name first, then make a language under the name < 1313177301 645872 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for it < 1313177331 711913 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, I have three jewelers. < 1313177335 367569 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... is too many. < 1313177407 13260 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make the excess jewelers miners. < 1313177432 478570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I must inform you that Dwarf Fortress discussion is only STRICTLY on-topic in #esoteric-minecraft. < 1313177455 377798 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, it's only loosely on-topic? < 1313177463 150377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is because Dwarf Fortress is literally Minecraft.) < 1313177472 244164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, I don't want to imply that we have a TOPIC... < 1313177493 382607 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am finding is that the name esolang, refers to a thing with a zing and a blang. < 1313177569 324709 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not a dabdoobler from a high ninimajoo, but yes a thrump-frumper from diddy-la-doo. < 1313177589 404644 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i overdosed on dr seuss just now) < 1313177597 695324 :asiekierka!~kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313177608 51832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: For instance, Phantom_Hoover's updates on the drainage system for his dorf-killing trap would be incredibly rude in #esoteric, because the fact that #esoteric-minecraft exists implies that the speaker did not consider it on-topic there, and therefore the only reasonable assumption would be that they were talking about real-life little people. < 1313177626 938683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, while DF discussion is not off-topic per se in #esoteric, it is likely to get you exiled. < 1313177637 257457 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1313177639 966543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1313177655 533402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is only logical. < 1313177661 836075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes off his pointy ears. < 1313177673 446944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you forgot the other vital components. < 1313177679 875361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I never take those off. < 1313177740 735690 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He likes is Spock costume < 1313177931 566474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Fix that shiro bug, i.e. it catches all errors, including ones I actually want to be errors in all situations (perhaps? maybe not); also, once I've fixed that, make sure that the fix still catches general monadic pattern match errors (but _not_ pure ones, I think) < 1313177969 587414 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiro's the Haskell befunge-98 interpreter, right? < 1313177983 327151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. s/be/N/ is the long-term goal. < 1313177992 968095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's unefunge and trifunge, and the generalisation to any N-dimensional funge is simple.) < 1313178072 822525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, fix Shiro or your dorf dies twice. < 1313178107 71434 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is stupid. < 1313178115 234958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: What. < 1313178131 306463 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is just now notifying me that quintopia said "Hi" < 1313178142 451555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is your IRC client? < 1313178164 422955 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my IRC client told Windows to notify me < 1313178179 64664 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Windows due to network connection problems < 1313178574 393269 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1313178612 22214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1313178624 546306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313178640 105802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313179464 639280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK O < 1313179582 775115 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any purpose to make a pseudomonad in Haskell that does not follow the monad laws, but can still be used with "do" notation, etc? < 1313179600 662996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The monad laws reflect obvious transformations on imperative blocks of statements < 1313179645 579146 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. But what if there is some way to use the do blocks for something other than imperative? < 1313179657 33408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're obvious transformations in general < 1313179659 138782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you would think "do {x <- do {...; lastThing}; ...}" would be reducible to "do {...; x <- lastThing; ...}" (modulo bindings) < 1313179663 359309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without the monad laws, this isn't true < 1313179674 318159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The problem is that it's totally unpredictable < 1313179682 866527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Two equivalent implementations of a combinator could behave differently if you violate the laws < 1313179690 48438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't rely on much anything at all < 1313179700 506244 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the compiler assume the laws are sound? < 1313179718 678151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No; Haskell programs that violate them are perfectly valid Haskell programs. < 1313179725 811508 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is another thing I thought, which is can a compiler possibly transform differently in different cases or different compiler? < 1313179726 334503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you never want to write one ever. < 1313179757 526064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compiler that optimised based on the monad laws would be in violation of the standard. < 1313179784 943958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, violating the monad laws horribly breaks everyone's intuitions. < 1313179958 644524 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1313179988 184014 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy for someone to accidentally write a ghc rule which assumed it, though < 1313180014 934532 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think i saw someone mention a package somewhere which did < 1313180041 206885 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313180078 258713 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, i think the arrow notation assumes the arrow laws something heavily to rearrange things < 1313180117 378034 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> proc something < 1313180118 501553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `proc' < 1313180178 983454 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0x29A is a bit weird < 1313180188 698962 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313180193 874900 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken in a way that just barely avoids destroying TC-ness :P < 1313180208 118708 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely stuff < 1313180243 22534 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely above average < 1313180604 489754 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5 < 1313180621 288254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it broken? < 1313180643 922822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, "something heavily" is a weird phrase :P < 1313180654 97747 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so, it is not against the standard to use pseudomonads with do notation. But it is possible that nobody ever needs them anyways. < 1313181237 58349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it has an s combinator that only does one stage of evaluation, according to the wiki. < 1313181395 354464 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I've made a UML-based alternative to plash. < 1313181400 460700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question: DOES IT WORK? < 1313181403 124444 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer: Idonno < 1313181561 901779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Heh, what. < 1313181568 595160 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you're doing anything significantly different with the do notation, you might want the NoImplicitPrelude and RebindableSyntax extensions for defining your own (>>=) function etc. for the do notation (not tied to the Monad typeclass), see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html#rebindable-syntax < 1313181571 198099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hooray, now our sandboxes can have diagrams. < 1313181580 390857 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Usermode Linux :P < 1313181588 415778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NoImplicitPrelude is not necessary < 1313181594 876202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use RebindableSyntax then import Prelude hiding (Monad, etc.) < 1313181599 476979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know :P < 1313181611 152788 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313181632 2712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conditionals (e.g. "if e1 then e2 else e3") means "ifThenElse e1 e2 e3". However case expressions are unaffected. < 1313181639 548307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that means you can do "if monadic then ... else ..." < 1313181644 779263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, not quite :/ < 1313181648 739653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without overlapping instances < 1313181654 204434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd still want it for case expressions too, oh well < 1313181659 53917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really you want the syntax to differ at least some < 1313181735 105873 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how's it broken? <-- its combinator subset requires all applications to be full, so you can only use S with exactly 3 arguments < 1313181745 571630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313181747 837179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1313181765 327797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so S(Ix) is invalid forall x? < 1313181986 241048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's valid but you must apply it to exactly 2 more arguments before it is evaluated < 1313182031 146597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313182040 180512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is SKI sub-TC if you use strict evaluation, then? < 1313182048 438611 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the evaluation rule for s, it is not specified that either xz or yz are evaluated." < 1313182054 710523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1313182060 983209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have been the one who wrote that sentence. < 1313182457 715630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Shiro TODO: Replace the stack with something better than a list. < 1313182528 735697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unlambda has strict evaluation, so no. < 1313182591 263178 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-24.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1313182627 522453 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In combinatory logic, whenever there are two open brackets adjacent, would I be correct to say the inner-most bracket and its partner are superfluous? < 1313182674 500945 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes. < 1313182728 625108 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :same syntax for it as haskell, really < 1313182728 790191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I wanted to know is, is there any purpose anyone has ever made up that uses do notation in different way? < 1313182828 696476 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are experiments on changing the type of (>>=) to something like (>>=) :: ParametrizedMonad m => m p1 p2 a -> (a -> m p2 p3 b) -> m p1 p3 b < 1313182853 757785 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows combining actions which have some additional type variation < 1313182904 76454 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you want a monad like State, except where the type of the state does not need to stay the same throughout < 1313182933 33653 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My UML-based plash replacement is 228 lines of C and 107 lines of Python, but I can't think of anything it does that plash doesn't (other than the GTK+ "powerbox" bullshit) < 1313182952 730892 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it doesn't support X apps at all though :) < 1313183001 589180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why would it not support X apps? < 1313183018 731260 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: UML doesn't translate sockets from host to guest, and I didn't include networking support. < 1313183044 682893 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: in some sense (a b c d) is just syntactic sugar for (((a b) c) d) < 1313183062 127915 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that also applies to both CL and haskell) < 1313183269 104871 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1313183367 331596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in some sense? < 1313183371 309575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that's literally true < 1313183403 932968 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well pretty close to it < 1313183412 477938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL has currying? < 1313183440 675949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it has tuples, how else could it work? < 1313183443 630954 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ghc _does_ try to detect when a function is fully applied, so it doesn't have to allocate a closure < 1313183502 520550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it presumably does that even if you write (((a b) c) d) < 1313183521 444766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming by CL you mean Common Lisp, which means that there isn't partial application (as far as I know...) < 1313183526 276696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: combinatory logic :P < 1313183534 806033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, nevermind. haha. < 1313183537 379539 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-105.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1313183548 780076 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-224.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313183563 203698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah combinatory logic has partial application. This is why you guys need me for these conversations. < 1313183567 923754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give you valuable information like that. < 1313183574 182642 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1313183576 816006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true dat < 1313183711 750859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, you know sum is just syntactic sugar for foldl (+) 0 < 1313183867 475976 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-224.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1313183875 108107 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-160.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313184177 102296 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditionally (disputable - which traditions?) computer programs have been measured (disputable - who did this measuring?) on the basis of how quickly they could perform calculations (disputable - you're really talking out of your ass) < 1313184305 636900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos disputable < 1313184312 445015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a reasonable statement. There's no need to defeat yourself. ;) < 1313184332 847487 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313184390 591110 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a danger in these corrections i add in parentheses of creating a false sense of security among less discerning readers that there couldn't possibly be any errors in what i am saying < 1313184406 838359 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we're not a very discerning crowd. < 1313184415 382888 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you guys are < 1313184441 5317 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I measure in terms of elegance and friends < 1313184444 739892 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1313184447 395455 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just being honest about myself < 1313184450 542619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to tell you something itidus20 < 1313184456 656810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I say things that are false < 1313184465 225112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ironic purposes. < 1313184476 981131 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is something you should know about me. < 1313184481 505635 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so what's the circumference of the equator, measured in elegance and friends? < 1313184485 26434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps understand half of the shit I say. :P < 1313184487 789605 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't, he's lying < 1313184518 836296 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: too big < 1313184519 3971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for elegance i go for 20000 km < 1313184519 737809 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was of course going somewhere with this.. but the train of thought has stopped for fuelling < 1313184525 135272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no don't do that! you'll cause a parad-AAAAH I'M IMPLODING. < 1313184525 468685 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1313184531 69117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*40000 km < 1313184534 668809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not a power of two? how un-round. < 1313184554 346916 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a word for unround that isn't unround? bumpy? < 1313184564 429651 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :edgy? < 1313184578 179290 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the meter was _designed_ to make the circumference of the earth 40000 km. not along the equator, and they messed up the calculations, but anyhow. < 1313184588 533983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a power of two? how edgy. < 1313184592 142417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :brings a whole new meaning. < 1313184630 274366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was thinking "uneven" at first, but... < 1313184643 543317 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how odd < 1313184678 105658 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unround is........... y[n], being a function of angle[n], is not equal to y[n+1] nor y[n-1] < 1313184707 673421 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are just too many ways for something not to be round < 1313184710 669927 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats one way to say it < 1313184722 364689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: why do you use all of these hideous square bracket notations. < 1313184733 975376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inappropriately. you're very naughty. < 1313184760 716354 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :may it be a mathematica thing or something... < 1313184771 693464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even going to go there... < 1313184774 113953 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't know combinatorial logic.. i don't know haskell. i don't know calculus. i don't know set theory. a mixture of these factors < 1313184786 854963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those are relevant < 1313184801 118677 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the calculus one is slightly relevant < 1313184805 489741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think i am going to do the bad thing i said i wanted to do.......... < 1313184813 715446 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because IRC doesn't have a subscript markup < 1313184822 334868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1313184823 478137 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bad thing??????? < 1313184844 589235 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: aha. well true mathematicians go for pseudo-(La)TeX in that case :P < 1313184848 600446 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :y_n < 1313184875 524935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. if someone wants to make a plugin for irc which uses embedded mimetex then i will give you your subscripts < 1313184878 211549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually expect () when dealing with functions, but... it's arbitrary really. < 1313184889 672080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear square brackets used in weird ways, really. < 1313184893 345264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a phobia of mine. < 1313184905 671336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant uh < 1313184918 260856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes.......... make a Shiro.Lens module which uses data-lens but then RENAMES THE OPERAtors........ < 1313184923 27406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence [[[][]][]] < 1313184924 173838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t -> m a' < 1313184924 429533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a1]' < 1313184931 583322 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1313184938 812212 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313184941 493174 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1313184943 359314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313184949 185289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence [[[],[]],[]] < 1313184950 18416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1313184956 155249 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nth Y... being a function of the nth angle.. .. the nth Y is not equal to nth+1th Y nor is the nth Y equal to nth-1th Y < 1313184959 994771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: CAN'T FOOL ANYONE YOU DON'T KNOW HASKELL. < 1313184975 811335 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1313184983 306319 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I WOULD HAVE GOT AWAY WITH IT IF NOT FOR YOU PESKY KIDS < 1313184984 32258 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that was even WORSE than the brackets < 1313185003 189358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I'm not really sure what that means. How is a function a function of a function without getting into some higher-order stuff. < 1313185011 857495 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i do fail to see how that defines "round", though :P < 1313185014 116531 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i don't know how to say this < 1313185017 353176 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats all < 1313185020 527548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help i feelm bad... < 1313185024 39920 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ;_; < 1313185024 706052 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what i want to say.. i just don' know how to say it < 1313185069 7447 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I'm taking a topology class in a year or so < 1313185078 579591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I'll have a better way of saying by then. < 1313185086 427079 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y n = Angle n ..... Y n != Y n+1 && Y n != Y n-1 < 1313185101 765850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :angles need more than one point... or whatever n is. < 1313185109 909395 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is an index < 1313185128 226448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah that doesn't mean anything. < 1313185134 856090 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see... i have made a mistake < 1313185208 732661 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++[->++++++++>++++<<]>++.+++++++++++++..>+. < 1313185208 805045 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOO! < 1313185209 405467 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is an angle from 0 - 359.59 (lol) ... ( Y n != Y n-1 ) && ( Y n != Y n+1 ) < 1313185224 722087 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1313185224 968734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is n an integer? < 1313185226 731707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia article about Monad (category theory) also mentions Polyad. But I don't understand category theory much < 1313185238 921657 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard about polyads < 1313185261 238574 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: honestly the logic holds up even if n is a real < 1313185271 872251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if? it would have to be real. < 1313185280 455251 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313185291 786318 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the logic holds up even though n is a real < 1313185299 961055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1313185310 682432 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a pretty dismal idea of unround < 1313185315 591137 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikibooks has a article about Haskell/Category_theory so I will try to read that to see if it helps a bit < 1313185326 137091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like a dog crapped out a theory of unround < 1313185327 660910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no I'm not going to lie you're wrong but it's no big deal. < 1313185360 3897 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had an idea for an esolang! < 1313185367 431404 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1313185373 345890 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: your definition doesn't even prevent Y from making large jumps, as long as it repeats the new value at least twice < 1313185385 390917 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make a spec, then an article < 1313185406 56342 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit i tried to be clever with .59 < 1313185409 172465 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehhe < 1313185442 135184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention that the only condition involved an integer increment < 1313185446 350181 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is an integer angle from 0 - 360, where 0 = 360 ... ( Y n != Y n-1 ) && ( Y n != Y n+1 ) < 1313185451 95974 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: and then a spectacle < 1313185456 944040 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1313185463 529165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't make sense when you're talking about a continuous thing like angles. < 1313185476 977581 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok < 1313185488 610158 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine ,, so that solution is rotten to the core < 1313185495 81663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1313185508 836882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: radians, man < 1313185526 749337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: radians are lame. < 1313185532 326405 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :angles make waaaay more sense. < 1313185537 920577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*degrees < 1313185549 128976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I take it this is a boring troll < 1313185572 291255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313185574 734873 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it should really be statistical analysis of the gradient over various sections of the edge of the circle < 1313185583 468907 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some manner < 1313185596 683318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how can you deny the clever truth that degrees are superior? There are 360 of them in a circle! it makes perfect sense. < 1313185597 18236 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't wanna see me try to imagine that as a formula < 1313185613 180720 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many radians are in a circle? like 6.something? < 1313185615 843183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense. < 1313185631 84104 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi / 180? < 1313185633 579671 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two pies < 1313185637 673351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1313185640 972157 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehhe oro < 1313185641 73844 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313185645 560557 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to CakeProphet < 1313185648 792817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? pies? < 1313185650 639445 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pies < 1313185653 19484 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep < 1313185661 337863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to win at Word Warp a lot, until they canceled the service. < 1313185678 506345 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I only deal with cakes. < 1313185687 432948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/IMAGES3/WordWarp.png < 1313185700 484143 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is the portals cake a false prophet? < 1313185708 152079 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^portal < 1313185711 44726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: stop stop no stop < 1313185719 378864 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :want me to kill you dead < 1313185719 628981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET THE BAD MEME REMAIN DEAD < 1313185760 136505 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that doesn't evem make sense to me. < 1313185773 178903 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill reword < 1313185779 110643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know cake is like... flour, sugar, and eggs mostly... right? < 1313185790 900370 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is the Portal cake a false messiah? < 1313185807 395454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no like... divinity, or soothsaying properties to this mixture. < 1313185816 385138 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been told I look like a Dr Seuss character < 1313185827 341200 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so i'll cut to the chase < 1313185832 367923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls that jumping avatar Taneb used to have on the iwc forum < 1313185844 753089 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine that you had the name cake long before that silly game ever got released < 1313185859 125148 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad portal jokes always make me think < 1313185859 455974 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are saying it was actually a real movie of you? < 1313185860 124607 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.girlzngames.com/comics/2010-12-22-Christmas-Gamer-Greetings.jpg < 1313185864 289242 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to think that < 1313185865 649039 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you < 1313185872 764118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: NO DON'T REMIND ME < 1313185876 791877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: all portal jokes are bad < 1313185877 644315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wiped that comic frm my brajisofnj < 1313185881 552220 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: do not make me think that < 1313185885 508333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I'm not really sure which came first but my name choice was unrelated. < 1313185892 426240 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to do with being an adolescent at the time. < 1313185912 969603 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That is nought but a vague memory now. I don't actually pay attention to my own avatar < 1313185913 469107 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forsee a cake on my birthday!!!! < 1313185913 640762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Portal is an awesome game, memes aside. < 1313185924 602277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portal 2 is even more awesome. < 1313185984 545698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's gel! it splooges out of pipes! controlled by valves! how clever Valve. < 1313185987 922673 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just remembered it < 1313186020 894556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, the memes are just the inevitable result of something funny becoming popular. < 1313186026 362814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. Monty Python. < 1313186026 861754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl x `seq` y $ z < 1313186027 112176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x `seq` y) z < 1313186035 500845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: noOOOOooooooooooo < 1313186080 407158 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm what did you expect? < 1313186113 616857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i want to say < 1313186118 638890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blahblah `seq` blahblah `seq` < 1313186123 489695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :............ $ x < 1313186131 561920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to have negative operator perecredcecends :( < 1313186201 302951 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean. < 1313186234 699682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used par in their projects yet? I'm intrigued by it. < 1313186252 848896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it better to use one of the abstractions that I haven't learned yet? < 1313186304 985649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 `seq`) < 1313186306 51772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Prim.seq' [infixr 0] of a section < 1313186306 234448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower pr... < 1313186312 673169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you generally need more than par... < 1313186319 108292 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm that's weird < 1313186319 939723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://hackage.haskell.org/package/parallel < 1313186350 821321 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: `seq` actually has the same fixity as $ < 1313186357 763757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1313186364 349985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so ?pl should have errored, heh < 1313186367 782023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hmm... infixr 0 < 1313186371 614033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't the dollar sign the same? < 1313186376 396524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically it would work < 1313186384 209815 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: READING COMPREHENSION < 1313186387 909445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd break if dollar sign's associativeness was ever fixed :) < 1313186393 104346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but that's just fixity < 1313186397 162236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is associativeness included in that? < 1313186409 82033 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in my mind it is... < 1313186412 739491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313186419 346414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (<<) < 1313186419 527912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Html (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b < 1313186419 871171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.XHtml.Frameset (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b < 1313186420 33588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.XHtml.Strict (<<) :: HTML a => (Html -> b) -> a -> b < 1313186421 775914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1313186425 48264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :associativeness + precedence < 1313186445 668548 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't think ?pl knows much about fixities < 1313186467 144962 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it assumes infixl 9 for unknowns, if we're lucky < 1313186501 142929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dont likem how the monadic set and modify functions of data.lens all return the setted/modified value :( < 1313186521 55985 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why hlep < 1313186623 121112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: becausem my fuctnioctnosni dont do that :( < 1313186643 111856 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313186649 562819 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble fuctnioctnosni < 1313186649 635376 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiuncstonnitoc < 1313186655 445552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit user dammitsomuch on quoting people: "And why doesn't he produce his own intellectual property (IP) instead of taking it from others and not giving them credit where credit is due?" < 1313186693 50527 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313186734 253179 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn JOIN :#esoteric < 1313186744 178901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n3wborn: im old born hi < 1313186750 151205 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1313186751 487393 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1313186757 645910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the first born. < 1313186768 215602 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm to the manor born < 1313186775 968732 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Born of the seven son < 1313186776 362899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions about what the hell 2001 was about may be directed towards me. < 1313186797 687698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what the hell was 2001 about. < 1313186802 42775 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What was with those aeroplanes that hit those towers that year? < 1313186817 865734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Trojans. < 1313186848 350489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, it was all a space foetus. < 1313186863 635587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh. < 1313186927 362052 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, wrong chan .. Bye < 1313186930 967500 :n3wborn!~n3wborn@unaffiliated/n3wborn PART :#esoteric < 1313186932 634852 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, stay < 1313186936 434953 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, too late < 1313186944 172162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspected neopagan. < 1313186954 330950 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my new esolang is seeming a bit too easy to use < 1313186991 729719 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to get rid of one symbol and make all the others single characters < 1313186997 222038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No stop. < 1313186998 453441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make it *bad*. < 1313187008 806616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who make their esolangs harder to use by making shallow adjustments are the worst. < 1313187014 471399 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was having a joke < 1313187018 316436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1313187022 506705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE DON'T KNOW YOU YET OK < 1313187025 861160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD BE SECRETLY TERRIBLE < 1313187032 330910 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a CAT program in it is: < 1313187036 14900 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat tail < 1313187036 928011 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1313187037 849873 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out < 1313187038 685264 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1313187074 560630 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Hello umlbox! < 1313187075 685644 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello umlbox!. < 1313187088 521932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You've put it into production immediately? < 1313187089 953929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run whoami < 1313187096 227621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run id < 1313187098 705640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure is slow. < 1313187102 972023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf / < 1313187105 984569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fuck tha police < 1313187107 136827 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It MIGHT be broken :P < 1313187108 813740 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got around to making my "Break hash for output" language < 1313187116 103587 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1313187117 441441 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.bluhbluh paste quine2.pl quotese.tmp.tmp. \ babies.env. ps. quine3.pl tekst.warez. \ bin.foo. quine.pl quotes test.c.??????????. < 1313187120 403649 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox? < 1313187121 47132 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ < 1313187123 56291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm < 1313187124 369721 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: missing operand. \ Try `rm --help' for more information.. < 1313187124 563852 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently I broke `run somehow? < 1313187125 812621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bash-3.2$ < 1313187127 69039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd < 1313187127 461053 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ < 1313187129 174620 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah < 1313187134 71104 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ < 1313187134 197088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lmao < 1313187135 526160 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :env: lmao: No such file or directory. \ /bin/sh could not be executed. < 1313187137 122142 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ < 1313187143 296434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought HackEgo didn't send multiple messages ever < 1313187155 733569 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Those aren't, they're backlog from your spammyspam. < 1313187164 872448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`areyousure < 1313187166 456507 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run escape < 1313187166 528359 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :env: areyousure: No such file or directory. \ /bin/sh could not be executed. < 1313187187 549722 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I was TRYING to say before you so rudely interrupted, UMLBox has a number of known problems, but "can escape" is not one of them. < 1313187197 877611 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-3.2$ < 1313187209 270258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but UMLBox has had how many days of testing in comparison to Plash's years? :P < 1313187215 477403 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.2 :P < 1313187236 704055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML, on the other hand, is tested, and I'm really just leaning on it *shrugs* < 1313187245 740487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but the one thing you're doing is providing a way out :-P < 1313187263 418876 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out ... from Plash. < 1313187271 591151 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the bork did I break `run??? < 1313187276 783634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Out from UML. < 1313187298 186722 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, thinking about it, my new esolang is too hard to use. < 1313187303 726956 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to add macro support < 1313187314 949570 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, I know how I broke run >_< < 1313187336 384958 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, in a way that lets us take over? < 1313187338 376523 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo Hewwo? < 1313187339 566532 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hewwo?. < 1313187350 652865 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, NOW the only issue is that it thinks stdout is a tty :P < 1313187352 161299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo die < 1313187353 379051 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :die. < 1313187354 602916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo diedie die die die < 1313187355 794729 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :diedie die die die. < 1313187357 521817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo BE A ROBOT, < 1313187358 791645 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE A ROBOT,. < 1313187364 609434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And that it outputs \n after everything < 1313187365 359364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume < 1313187381 100256 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: \r is what's getting converted into '.' < 1313187382 733486 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks more like a . than a n < 1313187384 563334 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313187386 642278 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo `run echo test < 1313187387 977358 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``'. \ sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file. < 1313187413 189166 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "`run echo test" < 1313187414 605069 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``'. \ sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file. < 1313187426 692787 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo \`run echo test < 1313187428 95985 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`run echo test. < 1313187435 167062 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for you X_X < 1313187445 927750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no good at this < 1313187451 407884 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I wasn't expecting it to do anything special, Taneb was < 1313187519 515907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one DOES write a bot that responds to itself without being really really stupid. < 1313187538 664141 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd ... even when I redirect from /dev/null it responds as if it's a tty ... < 1313187546 254806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some sort of message queue that's just processed generically, and messages are pushed to it from various sources (because it has multiple connections to IRC, maybe it can even work over a web client in case IRC ports are blocked??) < 1313187556 366470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's one handler that just looks at messages sent by the bot itself, and sends them off for real < 1313187558 961257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd end up processing itself < 1313187569 434857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It might be looking at stdout < 1313187581 772611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls < /dev/null | cat < 1313187583 75761 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. \ babies. \ bin. \ bluhbluh. \ env. \ foo. \ paste. \ ps. \ quine.pl. \ quine2.pl. \ quine3.pl. \ quotes. \ quotese. \ tekst. \ test.c. \ tmp.tmp. \ warez. \ тэкст. < 1313187585 893130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try making a pipe and redirecting the output to that < 1313187590 987030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see about haskell is: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_11/JavaCPHPRubyHaskell.jpg < 1313187597 356456 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gettin' closer ... < 1313187681 795732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo sends zero-width character before punctuation at the start of a message, and IRC will not echo messages you send to the channel back to yourself < 1313187721 924173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is secretly terrible. < 1313187746 493359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible of what? Or is that a secret? < 1313187752 42346 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's what you get for not actively prophesizing about bakery goods. < 1313187755 695120 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg hackego `run echo !sh \`run echo test < 1313187759 283179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm secretly awesome. I hide it under a veil of terribleness. < 1313187766 972686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a secret. < 1313187770 180098 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, that won't work even with a slash < 1313187773 597892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That isn't it either < 1313187792 24050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only processes things starting with ` < 1313187818 467488 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo !sh ech \`run echo test < 1313187819 622273 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!sh ech `run echo test. < 1313187829 377387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :use uh.... $() I think < 1313187831 295713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of ` < 1313187837 436894 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'mon EgoBot < 1313187856 161643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it has zero-width character at first < 1313187861 912410 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a problem < 1313187869 209005 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a blessing < 1313187869 457555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it on my computer even if you cannot < 1313187881 486164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 has... ze goggles. < 1313187882 739150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a blessing, thinking about it < 1313187885 934658 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop now < 1313187887 33476 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 can see the code. < 1313187901 378178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is because I am using a fixed-pitch font. < 1313187905 841502 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it an ioctl that sets ttys not to use \r or ... < 1313187915 242685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, you're just using a font without the appropriate character < 1313187919 593695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wmop < 1313187925 423908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of ioctl < 1313187930 872438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually I'm just making up acronyms. < 1313187935 244709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ls... shouldn't be printing \rs. < 1313187949 699921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you using a pty, or just a pipe? < 1313187957 502473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program to strip the zero-width character of received messages here it is: http://sprunge.us/VHQU < 1313187958 540279 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think it is, I think it's because the pseudodevice I'm using to communicate between UML and the host is a tty. < 1313187970 875231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't use a tty :-P < 1313187970 953841 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipes aren't communicated from guest to host. < 1313187971 107778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......UML? < 1313187974 985902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: User mode linux. < 1313187975 58853 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no other option. < 1313187984 447200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh okay that is significantly less frightening. < 1313187985 835128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even a custom-coded fd? < 1313187997 296015 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Within the guest, that FD is gone. < 1313188005 716152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking Unified Modeling Language.. < 1313188010 272326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, can't you write a UML kernel driver < 1313188011 122762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's called. < 1313188011 546394 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: If you have PHP you can use this program if you want it to strip the character so it can send anyways < 1313188015 1788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That provides a device or FD or whatever < 1313188017 616854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just communicates back in raw < 1313188020 573577 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So, wtf is wmop? :P < 1313188029 84998 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing something strangely on-topic < 1313188034 526260 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's called UML's psedo-tty device :P < 1313188038 88198 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My esolang spec has reached a shortfall < 1313188038 453943 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the answer to all of your problems. < 1313188040 753163 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just have to figure out the ioctl to make it raw. < 1313188044 422056 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fictitious. < 1313188044 507102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's a tty. :) < 1313188048 223572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Erm, raw as in uncooked? < 1313188053 456803 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. < 1313188060 504555 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say that you can't use some things on their own, you have to use them inside something < 1313188076 22181 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but it sounds like some kind of wireless cleaning program. < 1313188078 138301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means. < 1313188121 989355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't make these things up. < 1313188124 614342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yeah I do. < 1313188142 383280 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you can't say "nand (head) tail", you have to say something like "replace (head) nand (head) tail < 1313188154 109547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That sounds stupid < 1313188223 477988 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first would return the first element of the main list NAND the second element, the second would replace the first element of the main list with the first element NAND the second element < 1313188246 538581 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every value should simultaneously have like 20 different contextual values. < 1313188254 87869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for maximum confusion. < 1313188262 242265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe 5 instead. < 1313188274 980849 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They kinda have two < 1313188286 993014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :two isn't very confusing. that's like Perl. < 1313188306 229857 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to make more without drastically changing the language < 1313188312 533058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically Perl probably has close to 5. But only 2 that you need to worry about. < 1313188312 812892 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. < 1313188314 386367 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1313188320 783829 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, randomly typing up-enter for no reason = fun < 1313188335 367506 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway: < 1313188335 505387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That sounds stupid < 1313188336 574433 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1313188336 798857 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forsee a cake on my birthday!!!! < 1313188337 942521 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ test.c \ tmp.tmp \ warez \ тэкст < 1313188341 658738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^my up-enter < 1313188354 622705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when you're using irssi and also in a cybersex channel. < 1313188357 383193 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eighteenth birthday, there will be fireworks < 1313188362 942439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, getting a terminal uncooked is difficult, but I guess I just mean on input < 1313188367 983060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For output it's probably easier < 1313188371 78347 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My seventeenth, there may be, but probably not < 1313188382 316378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an ioctl and then bit-twiddling five elements of a structure and another ioctl :P < 1313188408 622209 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if i hold up for a while before pressing enter the entertainment value will increase < 1313188415 30484 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats one way to say it < 1313188423 272418 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ill try that again: < 1313188426 881942 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some manner < 1313188435 256980 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more for luck: < 1313188445 463038 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he has all the wonder that a dr seuss character tends to have < 1313188446 388632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client does not implement the functions of the arrow keys. But if I make another one later, that is not written in PHP, maybe I will I don't know for sure < 1313188475 71134 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's cheating, why does every mobile browser do it so easily? < 1313188479 471626 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my up-enter < 1313188513 967429 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually knows the context for that < 1313188535 738082 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill cut and paste the top line of my scrolling window < 1313188536 16564 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol I'm made of so much fail 8-D < 1313188541 882713 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`touch foo < 1313188543 301385 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch: cannot touch `foo': Permission denied < 1313188554 750190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well it's unhackable at least < 1313188562 102733 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOTALLY - BULLETPROOF < 1313188566 828744 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188588 171565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that was to me < 1313188615 352670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188696 55633 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188710 257158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188724 624464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188736 577210 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188746 770914 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188751 842415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313188754 702160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No stop. < 1313188762 551989 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop stop stop < 1313188765 41423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone uses the same client. Check IRC clients using VERSION command or whatever if you want to, and see they are not all the same < 1313188776 1962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, friendship stop? < 1313188781 274052 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that mouse < 1313188794 709385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I caught it yesterday honestly get in the loop. < 1313188810 241136 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I was too busy being out of the loop < 1313188817 730632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was foraging in a bin and I stuffed a blanket into the top.) < 1313188826 647823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then I ran around with it while cackling.) < 1313188991 777554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aww awwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww < 1313188995 713760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DID YOU BEFRIEND IT < 1313189006 157917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, NO < 1313189011 549589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I released it into the wild. < 1313189026 834801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I realised that the cat was like 3 metres away and had to chase it down and lock it inside. < 1313189047 442275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU ARE A BAD PERSON < 1313189050 350269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRIENDSHIP MOUSE < 1313189100 893217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1313189106 714187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MOUSE WAS MEANT TO RUN FREE < 1313189130 356430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ < 1313189142 70362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, is it a hard-boiled Scottish highlands mouse? < 1313189143 1639 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi puts a space there for some reason. deal with it. < 1313189147 891497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You live in the highlands, obviously. < 1313189150 331593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS < 1313189152 518909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: for stupid @ indicators < 1313189156 950652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it was on holiday. < 1313189203 644357 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you and elliott are now tied with MAX PERPETRATION < 1313189212 888012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO < 1313189269 562311 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAX PERPETUATION < 1313189286 727911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perpetuation perpetrators < 1313189478 606715 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting that perpetrator and perpetuator have the same roots yet different meanings. < 1313189542 440430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin perpetrare: "to carry through" < 1313189639 137953 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update < 1313189663 642185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Phantom_Hoover < 1313189678 692671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :between CakeProphet and Gregor < 1313189683 43111 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS <-- why? < 1313189691 783999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs an update tracker when you have Sgeo_. < 1313189703 525853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because if we don't you'll ban us for spamming. < 1313189715 959615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS <-- why? ← That was just a sneaky attempt to get someone to continue it. < 1313189719 141949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, you revealed my secret plan again < 1313189730 55355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS <-- why? ← That was just a sneaky attempt to get someone to continue it. <-- shit just got real < 1313189733 579301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're going to reach a character limit soon. < 1313189737 443264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS <-- why? ← That was just a sneaky attempt to get someone to continue it. <-- shit just got real <-- im running out of space help < 1313189763 389160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < elliott> That's the client like everyone uses/ ← END THIS MADNESS <-- why? ← That was just a sneaky attempt to get someone to continue it. <-- shit just got real <-- im running out of space help ← quick hack into Freenode and extend the < 1313189763 657129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : limit < 1313189767 188134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOO < 1313189774 804888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT I WAS TRYING TO FINISH IT MYSELF < 1313189775 982337 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWWWWWWW < 1313189778 724341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "<-- im dying" < 1313189793 843339 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert all of the <-- to [#esoteric] convert all of the <-- to < 1313189800 799541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : ← < 1313189818 166477 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that even help < 1313189819 24035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the space in elliott < 1313189821 826788 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 CHARACTERS < 1313189848 304937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "←" < 1313189849 330363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1313189855 74920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1313189859 90379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "←" < 1313189860 320056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\8592" < 1313189868 700307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything was going fine until Phantom_Hoover hoover perpetrated the perpetuation of commenting. < 1313189892 4888 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover hoover < 1313189896 510520 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't < 1313189898 577107 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a kind of... hoover. < 1313189909 273384 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :things had to be said < 1313189909 962405 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++[->++++++++<],[>.<,] < 1313189910 128399 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ < 1313189914 256483 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1313189927 359967 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def count bf ++++++++[->++++++++<],[>.<,] < 1313189927 521622 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1313189934 349393 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count ← < 1313189934 421940 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@ < 1313189941 140772 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count <-- < 1313189941 307559 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@ < 1313189959 977369 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count © < 1313189960 481600 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ < 1313189965 712062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count fungot < 1313189965 784704 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@@@@ < 1313189974 914229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so it's a byte limit and not a character limit? < 1313190007 683783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess character limit would be kind of... arbitrary. < 1313190008 727724 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'd expect so, irc says nothing about charset afaik < 1313190025 158581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many people don't even use utf-8 < 1313190044 779841 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count あ < 1313190045 194229 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@ < 1313190066 786854 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count @ < 1313190066 895267 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1313190073 944548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubles as a cat program for some inputs. < 1313190077 373892 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count < 1313190084 130196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1313190089 291171 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite number of inputs. actually, up to irc's character limit. < 1313190093 298455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*byte < 1313190095 551604 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ count 1, 2, 3, ah ha ha! < 1313190100 831806 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count 1, 2, 3, ah ha ha! < 1313190101 378119 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ < 1313190113 31224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^count @@@@@@ < 1313190113 196946 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@@@@ < 1313190269 63525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Footnote 5: "Mmmmm... seafood" Foodnote 10: "Mmmmm... "C" food" Footnote 15: "Mmmmm... See? Food." < 1313190356 170543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Footnote 20: Mmmmm... si, food < 1313190392 726591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i with an accent. Since apparently people care about that stuff on this channel. < 1313190457 386186 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can use accent marks if you want to. Or just use ASCII if you want to use ASCII only to ensure maximum compatibility < 1313190482 799359 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Footnote 33: Mm, SI FUD? < 1313190502 539912 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ASCII out of laziness. < 1313190670 882061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Footnote 5 is based on something my brother said (out of character) during a D&D session. It gave me some idea, and I also decided to make it a footnote (but based on my actions because that is what he was refering to), that hopefully I could make up a use for the other things as relevant footnotes too in later sessions somehow. Which accent mark is it supposed to be? If it comes up I would make that footnote too! < 1313190775 274031 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he eat a mermaid or something < 1313190790 911130 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, out of character < 1313190810 904166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1313190813 282459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1313190849 475769 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a program I wrote for recording D&D sessions. < 1313190868 588414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like... are you guys still understanding what's going on in Homestuck? < 1313190875 211160 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of lost. < 1313190924 75902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything makes perfect sense. < 1313190949 254711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand everything i've read of homestuck < 1313190957 105456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Remember that there is a difference between "things we don't know yet" and "confusing things".) < 1313190970 829985 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to know why these things are as they are you can read the entire document by yourself, please. (And, of course if you find a typo please mention it) < 1313191035 807919 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's just somewhat harder to follow when I'm waiting for updates. Because I get stuck on the intermediate parts. < 1313191047 356600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention with the scratch there's like 5 things goings on at once. < 1313191053 693715 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :per section or whatever. < 1313191120 500259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, the scrapbooks are over. < 1313191155 665246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badness ten thousand. < 1313191412 910644 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Monoid < 1313191413 243068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monoid a where < 1313191413 409556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mempty :: a < 1313191413 481859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mappend :: a -> a -> a < 1313191413 481974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mconcat :: [a] -> a < 1313191420 836482 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mempty :: Integer < 1313191421 636998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Monoid Integer) < 1313191422 50368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `mempty' at :1:0-5 < 1313191422 123026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Monoid Integer) < 1313191433 347839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1313191485 452667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the informations about monoids in Haskell, it seems like groups in mathematics except for inverses < 1313191497 387427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um they are literally monoids. < 1313191500 580646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what monoids are in math too < 1313191506 694113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid < 1313191645 456392 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1313191703 949164 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1313191899 495193 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1313192143 202091 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1313192148 318292 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1313192223 344059 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable NICK :variable < 1313192247 713333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that one day I have realized that quasigroups can make latin squares even when I didn't know about quasigroups. < 1313192331 266807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :whoosh < 1313192336 972346 :whoosh!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1313192448 565581 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember I once wrote a program to compute which cells of a latin square can be used as identity elements < 1313192471 489043 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, Linux's capabilities system sucks >_< < 1313192480 288124 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be given capabilities if you don't expect them. < 1313192542 657246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fix it. < 1313192552 616534 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful as always. < 1313192633 660661 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay I just got through the scrapbook < 1313192637 871604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't been reading for a while. < 1313192642 613039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it works better that way. < 1313192654 229914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then asking whether we're still confused about everything happening seems silly < 1313192660 920182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Karkat is a good patron troll. :D < 1313192666 628384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Define expect < 1313192672 984114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Helpful as always) < 1313192674 569075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess < 1313192693 491338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Executable files can have a special flag that essentially says "when executing this, you may keep these capabilities" < 1313192694 206912 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, someone in another channel just said, as a joke: i won't be content until unsigned int x = 0; --x; yields ∞ < 1313192704 16422 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it's 0 for approximately every program ever. < 1313192743 628451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's a terrible joke because it makes no sense. < 1313192773 652804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What do you need capabilities for anyway < 1313192787 800646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes this joke is even mathematically wrong as far as I can tell < 1313192788 216384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: That would make unsigned even less like the naturals < 1313192798 809753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's one thing C doesn't need it's to be less mathematical < 1313192816 929477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [] < 1313192817 806025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1313192825 427728 :PatashuWarg!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum [] < 1313192826 871984 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1313192844 37755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Those makes sense it is good that it does like that < 1313192845 155322 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The reason it can't write files is that I randomized the UID, but UML actually understands permissions. < 1313192852 587894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep < 1313192865 703144 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I could see the 1 causing some issues in... code that I can't think of. < 1313192872 537216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of unexpected logic error. < 1313192877 69454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Use a FUSE filesystem that just mirrors another directory but reassigns all the owners < 1313192880 534732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yw < 1313192888 79275 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Helpful as always. < 1313192890 767589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And handles it on creation too) < 1313192892 849241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What, that would work < 1313192900 755760 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, and suck foot :P < 1313192909 925812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: product [] is correct < 1313192917 873282 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it wasn't. < 1313192919 541121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If code fails with product [] returning one, that code is really weirdly broken?? < 1313192922 865949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why < 1313192927 18579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1313192945 579580 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now you've got FUSE over hostfs :P < 1313192973 268326 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well say 1 was treated as a special value, then [1] would produce the exceptional case unexpectedly... I dunno. < 1313192990 527525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BET BAD CODE COULD HAPPEN < 1313192990 693015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh no, HackEgo will be so slow, and it is so fast now < 1313193013 594116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: [10,0.1] also produces 1 < 1313193013 777861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If for some reason you want that you can use a Maybe type to check if it is empty or not < 1313193021 977488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Or just case < 1313193027 29919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :case xs of [] -> ...; _ -> ... < 1313193032 697863 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that ∞ sounds very much like -1 of signed ints, except for the order. you could probably make many things work by using ordinary bigints but treat negatives as larger than nonnegatives < 1313193040 406462 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, let me put it this way, then: Randomizing the IDs is totally pointless in this new design, so I'm just not doing it any more. < 1313193050 651605 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also 2-adic numbers yada yada) < 1313193059 128990 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hans is holding his own today < 1313193068 418530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, 2-adic number, it is what I have thinking of too < 1313193094 267929 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is still slightly behind entering final jeopardy, but he was in the lead for a bit) < 1313193103 570432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was going based on the assumption that it was still necessary < 1313193113 487257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which seems reasonable, since you did not say it wasn't, and you were having a problem relating to it :-P < 1313193114 954011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Don't bother to tell me right now. I will watch Jeopardy later today < 1313193135 433556 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just came to this realization < 1313193142 748047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guessed that :P < 1313193248 406938 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it would still make multiplication by a negative number reverse the ordering... < 1313193296 402701 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, please try to politely hack hackbot :P < 1313193302 467720 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look for holes (but don't exploit them) < 1313193321 419835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: find exploits in hackbot and exploit them. < 1313193321 491662 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? well i guess he said no, then, < 1313193396 828917 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. infinity isn't actually a number right? < 1313193405 186486 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a problem that comes up right? < 1313193415 16998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"problem" < 1313193421 556075 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: infinity is not a "real number", no < 1313193432 34289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperreal < 1313193434 5929 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313193434 251480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh snap < 1313193446 66255 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a plethora of different mathematical objects that can be called infinity, though < 1313193460 271213 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that between real numbers n and n+1 there can be infinite divisions < 1313193461 663786 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait, is it surreal? < 1313193466 937954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1313193469 586578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: both exist < 1313193474 72036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: um what < 1313193475 13953 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: both ... :P < 1313193489 431711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are as many reals between any two given reals as there are reals in total < 1313193494 448960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's what you mean < 1313193525 885932 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but there is no total, right? < 1313193533 499701 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just relative < 1313193552 437283 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep what < 1313193557 862198 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sips his ice coffee < 1313193569 675114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what? < 1313193579 413174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: there are beth-one of them if that's what you mean