< 1312330206 338409 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably another feature of the sonic screwdriver. < 1312330220 948632 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1312330347 142758 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312330593 65070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : help < 1312330593 493109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 11 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1312330600 491195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is that the actual temperature where you are? < 1312330767 539851 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pikhq_: There was a special in the new series... < 1312330792 558353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that for some reason his DF fortress has no food.
< 1312330806 160521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just wait for the tantrum spiral, then. < 1312330807 618295 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your Dwarf Fortress Fortress? < 1312330824 50473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I decided that it was necessary for disambiguation. < 1312331114 108969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to dig through damp stone.
< 1312331320 875386 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312332358 448921 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312334176 854594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312334186 947477 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312334277 908537 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312334480 38794 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312336098 481841 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312337344 630020 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312338050 401108 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312338142 5139 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1312339145 282682 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1312340581 288134 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312343226 815383 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312344881 878916 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: To bed! < 1312345350 108650 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312345350 535836 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312345350 737484 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346511 960537 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1312346532 239333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started making the prettyprinting literate Haskell program in TeX, now what I have so far it works. Now I have to make the other parts too. < 1312346578 753995 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346721 58556 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346889 836872 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1312346930 90693 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312347162 569 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for a numbering system where every single positive integer has a distinct symbol? < 1312347185 230555 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary < 1312347190 492977 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1312347220 389955 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, its the extremme opposite of unary < 1312347261 670410 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary gives each positive integer a distinct symbol < 1312347306 216495 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought unary was where every positive integer got a different sized collection of the same symbol < 1312347327 126355 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, n is n digits long < 1312347345 439868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary = tick marks. 1, 11, 111, 1111 < 1312347345 724180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Are you sure? < 1312347346 434978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1312347346 886500 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm talking about where n is one digit long for all n < 1312347360 82244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could call it base infinity < 1312347365 766666 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes < 1312347369 608922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's talking about an infinite number of symbols. I don't think that has a name. < 1312347370 939199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes it is wat I would think < 1312347373 55222 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312347375 178066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: define a digit < 1312347381 873712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually alphabet sets are restricted to be finite. < 1312347395 569757 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 can be taken to be a single symbol < 1312347403 915549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not. it's two.. < 1312347404 487802 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just happens to be a repitition of a subsymbol < 1312347407 578342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the unary system. < 1312347419 500611 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: suppose I have two images < 1312347420 437837 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you know what i mean now < 1312347427 58488 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make a new image by putting them next to each other < 1312347433 635560 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the numbering system using an infinite alphabet < 1312347434 716727 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no because that requires an infinite alphabet which is dumb < 1312347448 793276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not dumb < 1312347491 651060 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase youll only ever need a finite subset of the digits, its basically the same as "base x, where x is the largest number you need right now" < 1312347507 207712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbols aren't images though. You don't make new symbols from existing symbols. You could invent a similar algorithm for decimal system by saying that 23, 24, 25, etc are all distinct symbols. But we call these "symbols" strings, not symbols... < 1312347542 12726 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just saw a minecraft display system where binary numbers are split into separate symbols for each number, and the each segment of the display is wired to the symbols that need to drive that segment < 1312347583 348732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i feel like that middle step probably has a name < 1312347598 773839 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its obviously modular to do as many different numbers as you need < 1312347695 993590 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are the symbols constructed. < 1312347718 82033 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whole "base k" term implies a positional system, and I don't think it really counts when you only ever use one digit. But that's just an opinion. < 1312347722 958770 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :each is a wire < 1312347727 165514 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could link it < 1312347743 813116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1 wire = 1, 2 wires = 2, ...? < 1312347751 492766 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i agree. which is why i originally asked < 1312347781 442054 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, there is a wire for 1, a wire for 2, a wire for 3, etc. < 1312347841 190505 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one wire can be active at a time < 1312347894 152760 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a symbol here is "a collection of wires distinguished by the one that is active" < 1312347912 743274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously every number has a different symbol < 1312348000 707709 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pythagoreans used a similar system "let k be symbolized by a line segment of length k" < 1312348163 26858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so the wires aren't really the symbols they just signify if a symbol is on or off. What are the symbols themselves? < 1312348183 646088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... are they the symbols? < 1312348233 493485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in either case, I'd probably say that "baseless" is a good description of this numeral system. < 1312348255 616642 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unary < 1312348256 515119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between a signifier of a symbol, and a symbol < 1312348258 797937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know of an existed term, no. < 1312348266 515730 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking i agree with patashu < 1312348277 686701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is all unary in disguise < 1312348282 772990 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not..... < 1312348296 602301 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to the system where you turn wire 1 on for 1, 1+2 on for 2, 1+2+3 on for 3... < 1312348298 264380 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unary < 1312348305 894715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312348310 886705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unary, you take the length of all of your symbols and that is the number that it represents. This system does not work this way < 1312348319 726103 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have 3 symbols turned on and they would not represent 3. < 1312348339 606412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the symbols could each represent a number greater than 1. < 1312348340 688852 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say "the distance in wires from the zero point to the active wire" < 1312348358 500088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether that space is filled with ones or zeroes is irrelevant < 1312348366 8848 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the greek system is unary too < 1312348378 432036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so the symbols are added together? < 1312348390 98767 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they concatenate their length 1 tick marks end to end rather than side by side < 1312348451 360337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it's base 1 but there is more than one symbol. < 1312348522 758837 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i think it is just that unary should best be understood as "a number represented by the appropriate measurement of a potentially infinitely long/detailed symbol" < 1312348597 765522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure unary just means that you have one arbitrarily chosen symbol that represents 1, and each number N is represented by repeating the symbol N times. Changing the definition would make it inconsistent with the rest of bases. < 1312348601 893942 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for clarifying my thoughts < 1312348618 701853 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a non-positional system of Greek numerals; they have separate digits for 1, 2, ..., 9, 10, 20, ..., 90, 100, 200, ..., 900, and then you denote numbers by a group of 1, 2 or 3 of those. But that's not quite "one symbol for each number", and I don't think it has any special name either. < 1312348622 482314 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is already inconsistent with the other bases < 1312348636 510040 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1312348654 762446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, traditionally there is no 0. < 1312348671 724126 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length of a base n number is log(x)/log(n) < 1312348690 910450 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for n=1, this comes out undefined < 1312348752 116462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base-k is supposed to have digits from 0 to k-1; so "base 1" should have just a 0; also the value of a string is d_0*b^n + d_1*b^(n-1) + ... + d_n*b^0, so if b=0 and d_n=0 for all d_n, 0 is the only number you can represent. < 1312348778 378110 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People still call it base-1 though. < 1312348782 741568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the choice of symbol is irrelevant. 1 is the single symbol for most unary systems, you could use 0 as well. < 1312348832 663574 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you see again unary is inconsistent with other bases < 1312348844 548153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there is no zero, as I said. < 1312348863 996614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other bases, the positions of symbols matters, in unary, only the "length" of the string matters < 1312348866 977244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, you're entitled to your opinion; I believe saying "base K" should imply you have a positional symbol with that base, and the value of a string is computed by adding multiplied copies of base^n. That's not what happens with unary. < 1312348908 768705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I sort-of guess it works with powers of one. < 1312348920 228507 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why one can write unary numbers as line segments of a prescribed length < 1312348991 242507 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that qhat quintopia is talking about isn't the standard definition of the unary number system, in the strictest sense. What he's talking about eitherh as a different name, is a modification of unary, or has not been named. < 1312349022 466041 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said yourself the choice of symbol doesnt matter CakeProphet < 1312349045 830130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but unary has /one/ symbol. two if you use a special zero symbol. < 1312349047 252585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could call unary bijective base-1 though. < 1312349050 581378 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312349086 902120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if instead of zeroes or ones, i choose as my symbol "the number of non-wire regions between wires before the first active wire" < 1312349095 394119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just as good as 0 or 1 < 1312349106 840511 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :each nonwire region < 1312349151 503941 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, the symbols dont have to be the same all the way through < 1312349174 506365 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the length of a string over the english alphabet < 1312349200 419924 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a garble of a's and b's and c's is just as good as a long line of 1's < 1312349211 919647 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since only the length defines the number < 1312349222 526470 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay sleeptiems < 1312349231 421433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that does sound quite similar to unary at least. I was going by an earlier explanation that didn't seem to fit unary. < 1312349711 869697 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern fonts does not have the "double-sharp" sign < 1312350265 522650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . replicate (length "111") $ length "11111" < 1312350266 375092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1312350266 576979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1312350281 911485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . replicate (length "111") $ "11111" < 1312350284 138547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "111111111111111" < 1312350351 788672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :division will be a bit more difficult. < 1312350377 908597 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer division, specifically. < 1312350395 709196 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings up an interesting question. If extend unary to the real numbers, then what is 1.111 < 1312350412 898932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that represents anything. < 1312350423 246024 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 is 1 < 1312350424 522063 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1312350432 561659 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because .1 in binary is 1/2, .1 in ternary is 1/3 and so on < 1312350436 256646 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .1 in unary is... 1/1! < 1312350441 978462 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::eng101: < 1312350455 741840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the unary system can't describe all of the real numbers. < 1312350468 455834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only integers. < 1312350501 592626 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup! < 1312350530 688349 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as places left of the decimal point are all equivalent, places right of the decimal point are all equivalent < 1312350539 718394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1312350565 525059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is essentially devoid of place value at all. < 1312350686 34465 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah o.O < 1312350689 660996 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the spectogram for this song < 1312350690 449631 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION np: 12120. Klippa - [So #01] The Tree [01:45/02:38]
< 1312350692 927819 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has poplar trees in it < 1312350695 134296 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's a coincident < 1312350697 947749 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coincidence < 1312350823 753406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence. It's probably just heavier in the bass frequencies. < 1312350877 888476 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show you a picture < 1312350897 958915 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it could not be coincidence, actually. There is an Aphex Twin track where Richard James encoded a picture of his face into the spectrogram (when view on a logarithmic scale) < 1312350910 816734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*viewed < 1312351137 471669 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/thetree.png < 1312351146 258274 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see it? < 1312351151 191874 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a little forest of 8 poplars < 1312351680 810344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a lot of "things hidden in spectrogram" songs, I believe. < 1312351697 567318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That image looks quite coincidental though. < 1312351775 402305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least something that could easily be coincidental. < 1312353497 775092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312354953 250016 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1312356060 343569 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312356658 371896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312356658 611417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-33.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312357757 473276 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312357874 595360 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312359050 822307 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312359326 617510 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1312359440 402390 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312359465 278395 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312360895 938729 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312361772 407802 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312361810 939384 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1312361954 473306 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's up? < 1312362077 993435 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much, I guess < 1312362120 16908 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it all fell down. < 1312362181 432238 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi NICK :Deewiant < 1312362230 927504 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312362372 157562 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312362606 504196 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such thing as bad advertising < 1312363006 96211 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just worked out I'll probably be in London on my birthday < 1312363049 265483 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll be on TV the day afterwards < 1312363122 599823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in jail the day after that? < 1312363131 843436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like quite a celebration. < 1312363209 383023 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE SAME BUILDING WHERE RUPERT MURDOCH GOT PIED! < 1312363241 687868 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I need breakfast. < 1312363350 610386 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having breakfast now < 1312363651 219075 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had breakfast < 1312363787 946385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick breakfast. < 1312363818 569358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A multi-level breakfast can breakfast through any number of surrounding loops. < 1312364120 364643 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-33.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312364124 882394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312364572 22738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312364710 707418 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312364740 987043 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I must leave < 1312364747 19546 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: He's a big quitter he is < 1312364883 339945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312365157 19875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the haps my friends. < 1312365360 423480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today it's been mostly about breakfasts. < 1312366789 42110 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312366856 27488 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate jargon < 1312366872 79703 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i mean, notations and jargons < 1312367040 66070 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it brings me to a crushing halt reading a mathematical wikipedia article < 1312367042 552772 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewriting_system#Abstract_rewriting_systems @ "is the transitive closure of , where is the identity relation, i.e. is the smallest preorder (reflexive and transitive relation) containing . It is also called the reflexive transitive closure of ." < 1312367144 740110 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the logical way to go forward is to examine exactly which terms i cannot understand < 1312367381 574205 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving on < 1312367686 916235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312368571 206731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it brings me to a crushing halt reading a mathematical wikipedia article < 1312368588 582632 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312368590 446519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes those are ridiculous even when you _do_ know math < 1312368608 307584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i exaggerated a bit. and typed out the answer :D < 1312368618 268609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312368630 595117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously it appears the way to proceed is to list the unknown terms < 1312368641 525974 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to research them < 1312368656 306900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something i was probably told in school < 1312368703 40593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1312369306 157511 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312369307 664417 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312369316 103381 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love terminology < 1312369321 854208 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets us say complex things quickly < 1312369324 30865 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312369328 662341 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :transitive closure especially < 1312369332 115518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever made that up is a genius < 1312369337 216880 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312369374 396837 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transitive closure? < 1312369417 720743 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312369528 763916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of a way of testing whether a number is even or odd in just 3 cells of bf. basically turning n,0,0 -> n, n%2, 0 or something similar which can be used to decide whether to quit a loop < 1312369535 239132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1312369574 789131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, i'm having trouble getting my fractran encoding to _halt_ :P) < 1312369657 977109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks [[Brainfuck algorithms]]
< 1312369678 879496 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the body's healing process is insane < 1312369694 429066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3 cells? no < 1312369729 58540 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they not teach the Trivium, anymore? < 1312369788 314517 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait do you mean 3 cells on a tape? < 1312369796 333243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312369806 436955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312369807 861985 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312369825 195993 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dandy: there is no teacher:> < 1312369856 124391 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do an evenness test in 5.. hmm < 1312369883 854832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm pretty sure i could do it in 4 :P < 1312369892 714704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's no fun :( < 1312369903 978406 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh actually I can do it in 3 < 1312369909 109591 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Le sigh < 1312369911 289546 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n-1,0 < 1312369929 572155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's important not to lose the n itself, at least if it's odd < 1312369935 98345 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312369947 497922 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually can still do it < 1312369952 422955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n,n-1 < 1312369960 984376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably in any case < 1312369965 705550 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312370011 921885 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately subtract two from the second and third cells < 1312370033 244891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand what you mean < 1312370049 594977 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n,n-1->n,n-2.n-1 etc. < 1312370077 534293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how to achieve n,n,n-1 btw < 1312370093 907764 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.. < 1312370100 900709 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1312370107 721725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312370168 533755 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1312370194 868682 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh easy < 1312370203 103039 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,0,0->n,n,0 < 1312370229 760844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's ok < 1312370244 291736 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then until the second cell is 0, subtract one from the second cell and if (the third cell is 0) then (add 2 to the third cell) then subtract 1 from the third cell < 1312370262 249940 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get n,0,n%2 < 1312370283 316732 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can apply this generally to take arbitrary modulus < 1312370315 831899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that "if (the third cell is 0)" kind of thing is actually a stopping point < 1312370337 815200 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it backwards then < 1312370349 836434 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (the third cell is not 0) then (subtract 2 from it) then add 1 to it < 1312370362 91191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that works only for base 2 < 1312370382 725679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not base 2, it's unbounded < 1312370396 996771 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean taking %2 < 1312370400 672200 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1312370401 528716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm trying to avoid negatives < 1312370415 667801 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1312370445 481660 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems arbitrary < 1312370454 159434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a direct improvement on the previous 5 cell algorithm, which i don't think needs them < 1312370462 40406 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1312370468 53714 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :using negatives is not a flaw < 1312370509 259971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i'm not sure your method works even with negatives. < 1312370527 409867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :recall we don't _have_ "if" as a primitive. < 1312370569 897293 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need to preserve the number? < 1312370571 114684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be done with loops, and it's awkward to fit things in just 3 cells < 1312370581 876929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes. at least if it's odd. < 1312370594 514546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably always, since it would be the final program result. < 1312370615 921086 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1312370629 815108 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312370663 146906 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: given my pointer at n < 1312370719 784111 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-]>[-]<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<[->[--]+<] < 1312370737 12754 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaves me pointing at the 0 in n,0,n%2 < 1312370773 351684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1312370808 157697 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can shorten it a bit < 1312370808 598614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's 0,n,*n before the [-<<+>>]<[->[--]+<] right < 1312370818 840645 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370831 347225 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first block just moves you to *n,n,0 < 1312370862 801651 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second block flips the third cell from 0 to -1 as you decrement the second < 1312370863 486587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and actually n,*n,0 before the [->[--]+<] < 1312370872 458300 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370896 531899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i can do moving things around myself ;P < 1312370906 61375 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1312370913 140009 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+>+<<]>+[>[--<--<++>>]<][<->]+ could work, haven't checked it < 1312370919 668613 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last block is the only one actually involved in the calculation < 1312370934 398186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: erm [->[--]+<] doesn't halt if n is odd < 1312370947 780805 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are you talking about < 1312370954 432250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1312370960 169015 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1312370963 277026 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I got that wrong < 1312370977 395112 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312370984 456026 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be easy if I had another 0 to work with < 1312370987 944835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misinterpreted, but is still expect that [--] to sometimes not halt < 1312370990 916163 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370991 904122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you don't say :P < 1312371003 109997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1312371003 395447 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you need a finite-length program too? < 1312371026 933741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes... < 1312371035 311215 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I take it relying on wraparound is bad? < 1312371049 669683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very bad, unboundedness is essential here < 1312371075 256071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to a proof bf is TC with just 3 unbounded cells < 1312371085 387379 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312371088 42961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be a < 1312371097 782647 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to ask for context, then I got it < 1312371204 300491 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm going to bed but will think about it < 1312371215 945020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1312371354 982590 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait changed my mind I have it < 1312371362 141957 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given *n,0,0 < 1312371370 851818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that [<->] looks rather unlikely, it'll either infloop or do nothing < 1312371458 271265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+<[->>+<<]] >> [-<-<+>>] < [-<+>>+<] > < 1312371468 202639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you n,0,*n%2 < 1312371468 969493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i think your main loop also infloops if n is odd < 1312371482 243948 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :first block gives you 0,n/2+1,n/2 < 1312371495 537606 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :second block gives you n-n%2,n%2,0 < 1312371509 801702 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :third block gives you n,0,n%2 < 1312371515 168092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm n/2 as in integer division? < 1312371517 598602 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312371526 520247 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait fuck no < 1312371528 771139 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffff < 1312371528 973378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that rather _obliterate_ whether n is even or odd < 1312371539 477682 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you brainfuck < 1312371556 500570 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1312371559 360032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to see you are getting the genuine fucked experience :P < 1312371559 785364 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to bed < 1312371569 133683 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312371581 222776 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be simple. < 1312371585 892369 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't this simple. < 1312371608 469024 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /win 7 < 1312371611 57995 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1312371613 235933 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :something < 1312371622 447937 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k actually going back to bed this time < 1312371639 317591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid i don't have that window, coppro. unless it's some secret i haven't heard about. < 1312371676 451887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i have frequently wondered why irssi always makes an empty /win 3 < 1312371919 162552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: those dont look much like trees to me. you should check ou the spectrum of hildegard westerkamp's "beneath the forest floor" for a real image of a forest. it's so uncanny, it's surely intentional. < 1312371963 469823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: in fact i made that odd/even distinction in the first place to manage to get an extra bit of "are we finished yet" information out of each applied fractran rule. the problem now is just actually extracting that information again on the top level loop... < 1312371988 690732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like you saved a layout with a window open to a channel on a net you don't connect to. do another /layout save and it probably won't anymore. < 1312372032 752765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i haven't visited non-freenode for years, if ever :P < 1312372058 463914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's try it anyhow < 1312372066 631988 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to think about this differently < 1312372082 821225 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have three variables, a, b, and c < 1312372105 132665 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can add or subtract a constant from any of these variable < 1312372115 589281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: probably a good idea < 1312372130 401301 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can start a loop that loops while a variable is not 0 < 1312372165 303496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that same variable must be 0 when we end (i don't think there's enough room to do unbalanced loops usefully) < 1312372197 332239 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312372228 215476 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable a is equal to an arbitary number, b and c are zero < 1312372246 816488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call the number initially in a n < 1312372264 556053 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we want is one variable to hold n, and another to hold n%2 < 1312372281 306808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, let's not exclude unbalanced loops completely. the problem would be finding out where you are afterwards. < 1312372288 369562 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312372295 244948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb boily < 1312372679 259925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: is your goal to determine if a value is even or odd? < 1312372712 867434 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312372721 461549 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In three cells in brainfuck < 1312372808 150262 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know its possible? < 1312372812 718416 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312372822 520741 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is with 5 cels < 1312372825 387156 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cells < 1312372837 100357 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only method i could think of needs four < 1312372854 295941 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1312372855 827217 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312372874 330415 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four would be easy < 1312372903 456494 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of a way of doing it in four cells too < 1312372916 614604 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a good problem < 1312372950 807456 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,0,0,0. add 2 to b and 1 to c and after each addition check to see which one equals a using d < 1312372955 80455 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not sure if that translates into bf < 1312373021 358262 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly NICK :FireFly < 1312373509 384579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I think I have an idea < 1312373601 412703 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312373669 868667 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312373852 586510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312374183 378829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes i believe 4 should be easy. (basically there is then room to include an extra bit of information from the loop i'm using for each fractran rule. although there may be an even simpler way.) < 1312374352 27190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatashuPikachuRe: the thing is translating to bf frequently means adding an extra cell for flow control... < 1312374507 98286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops now i'm wondering if _that_ is working again. oh well. < 1312374695 96281 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so I have what appears to be a solution < 1312374865 272227 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. dammmmmmmmit < 1312374871 89508 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's tricky it's like, one scratch cell per conditional deep you go < 1312374877 276734 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where conditional includes things like moving < 1312374921 342593 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no this is right < 1312374978 884401 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm k so loops that don't evenly affect the IP hurt my mind < 1312375004 164684 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1312375013 284258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also they're hard to use here < 1312375032 734179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then maybe it could be essential < 1312375243 887230 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it can be done with them < 1312375255 327741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to figure out how to recenter < 1312375264 108717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns on light and pulls out whiteboard
< 1312375373 511368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well trouble is if you have two cells that need to have an essentially arbitrary value, and the zero you left the loop through, then it seems very hard to check where you are. only if there are two zero cells does it seem reasonable, but can you use that case.. < 1312375390 813415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I see how to do it < 1312375403 483007 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pseudocode because I need to be up in a few hours < 1312375466 274712 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is on the edge of his seat
< 1312375472 341898 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have an input stack and an output stack < 1312375485 347011 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :let n be the input stack and m be the output stack < 1312375533 456259 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had a rather stupid idea < 1312375554 282066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait fuck thta gives no termination codition < 1312375573 440722 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think what you really want to rely on is the position of the stacks < 1312375590 790196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack of unaries? < 1312375597 110434 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312375601 869959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using value < 1312375704 338444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, afaict you cannot actually check the position if both "stacks" are filled (i.e. two cells both have arbitrarily large values) < 1312375854 801353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the end of a loop, you will have either *0,m,n; m,*0,n; or m,n,*0; and neither pair of these can be distinguished < 1312375897 6663 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm envisioning is [ (move 1 from n to m) [ (move 1 from n to m and something else) ] (something) ] < 1312375951 657863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's essentially the idea i am trying to use for the _inner_ fractran loops. i just cannot see a way to get the information out of the loop... < 1312375960 331240 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractran loop? < 1312375983 865342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes, the idea is to convert fractran to brainfuck < 1312376033 456022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write that part down properly < 1312376161 137769 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write down properly "the idea is to convert fractran to brainfuck" < 1312376164 730438 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312376206 649568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the inner loop structure for that, which i thought i had clear enough idea of but i'm suddenly unsure. < 1312376452 288912 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1312376465 791232 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with *n,0,m < 1312376476 318243 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to *n-1,0,m+1 < 1312376526 195802 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do a if n-1 is nonzero, you go to m,*0,n-1 < 1312376564 399895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I had it backwards the IP doesn't work that way < 1312376567 407616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1312376594 2684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this loop supposed to be unbalanced? < 1312376599 992382 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312376602 899702 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1312376616 856278 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not necessarily < 1312376617 487180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks possible so far < 1312376644 659574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are either at *0,0,m+1 or m,*0,n-1 < 1312376645 602068 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait yes you can do this < 1312376647 896814 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1312376666 85176 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now go to 0,*0,m+1 or m,0,*n-1 < 1312376673 232245 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the cell pointed to is nonzero, move left < 1312376691 780801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that synchronizes < 1312376695 325701 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sorry replace m,*0,n-1 with m+2,*0,n-1 < 1312376699 386598 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my stupid idea was a programming language that spews brainfuck code and immediately interprets it. < 1312376725 510505 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This allows for infinite-length programs < 1312376738 113109 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait this has the same problem an earlier idea did in that you can't tell when you're done the loop < 1312376777 454190 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm < 1312376826 696749 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you then go right and subtract one, you have 0,0,*m or m+2,0,*n-2 < 1312376869 558747 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n-2 might be zero < 1312376884 491853 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you want to end the loop if that or the far left cell is 0 < 1312376937 580816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312376972 84730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha there's a way and I'm actually sure this time < 1312377022 299900 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :start at 0,m,n. Go to *n-1,m+1,0 and branch < 1312377049 917960 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you took the branch, go to *0,m+2,n-2 < 1312377069 724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's still balanced < 1312377110 407193 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :add one to each cell < 1312377119 281241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them? < 1312377138 596780 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err don't < 1312377146 390919 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, go right one cell. if nonzero go right again < 1312377182 227686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that runs off the tape < 1312377201 787816 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1312377204 171948 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damndamndamn < 1312377212 548060 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking brainfuck < 1312377236 730130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can shift columns to get that algorithm anyway? < 1312377266 817244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I think I'm going to not delete http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Icornellhoffmane until elliott gets a chance to see it < 1312377275 479215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because it looks like a parody of spam rather than actual spam < 1312377297 679384 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1312377301 288078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes ais523 said "not"
< 1312377336 995627 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312377462 65246 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the behaviour of brainfuck if you run off the edge of the tape? < 1312377468 449072 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfault? loop? ignore? < 1312377479 642902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312377493 448107 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312377530 765995 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation dependant < 1312377537 958279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatashuPikachuRe: i'm pretty sure all of those options will have been tried < 1312377550 949957 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures it's undefined behavior < 1312377675 796124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312377687 619377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : off the left edge, it should crash < 1312377690 448266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go off the rightedge < 1312377693 69906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right edge < 1312377695 724347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there isn't one < 1312377745 751431 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :from *0,m+2,n-2 and *0,0,m+1 go right, if nonzero then swap the first two columns and then swap the right two columns < 1312377756 29371 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1312377759 496361 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap is a bad term < 1312377763 517087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: original bf had a 30k or so limit < 1312377764 975316 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :move each column left < 1312377771 711287 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fine because the left column is 0 < 1312377774 908743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was a bug < 1312377800 841384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case _this_ problem has tape length 3, and don't you dare leave it. < 1312377942 130382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What are you basing that assessment on? The original brainfuck-2.lha:README file says "The 30000 array elements". < 1312377980 938542 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha wait < 1312377987 945697 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail < 1312377993 310197 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how to loop only if you got to 0 < 1312378003 723132 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful but wrong < 1312378011 733662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the spec has mutated over time < 1312378018 567202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the original interp retroactively buggy < 1312378047 13515 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you in need of a negation operator? :P < 1312378064 597611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat < 1312378074 743173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Who died and made you a spec-maker?" (IOW, if there's no de jure or de facto standard, I don't see how you'd get to arbitrarily pick one.) < 1312378175 78211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1312378185 775197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't more or less every article on BF say that it's Turing-complete? < 1312378189 881130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can make it loop if one, but not two, columns are nonzero < 1312378193 163327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's that that retroactively changed the spec < 1312378225 154274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That doesn't mean it unambiguously changes the spec to have an unbounded tape; it could as easily retroactively change it to have unbounded cells instead. < 1312378234 323709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm afraid the reverse would be more impressive < 1312378237 664517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suppose so < 1312378242 799514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1312378251 470283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :majority vote of implementations gives it 8-bit cells, at least < 1312378253 825619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: misread you. hm, interesting... < 1312378257 812840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm aware that that's not completely standard < 1312378271 247389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The brainfuck language uses a simple machine model consisting of the program and instruction pointer, as well as an array of at least 30,000 byte cells initialized to zero; --" <-- wikipedia, the final arbitrator of truth and justice. < 1312378301 352160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that would indeed make things easier. < 1312378330 411753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Aways.) < 1312378355 82452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION originally misparsed that as a typo for "always"
< 1312378377 850022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um it wasn't? < 1312378386 702522 :Tritonio!Tritonio@93.182.185.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312378394 780717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's more likely to mean "I am away, at least for a while" < 1312378546 822145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway you're welcome to try to implement n,0,0 -> n,0,n%2 in 3-cell unbounded bf as well :P < 1312378610 785409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312378625 656642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for %2 in gcc-bf, I just multiply by 128, then check zeroness < 1312378632 256891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bu that requires 8-bit bounded cells < 1312378675 717927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, no can do < 1312378745 145870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use repeated negation with unbounded cells, but I'm not sure if three cells is enough < 1312378784 533263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i got an idea, what if you calculated n/2 first... < 1312378808 201926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can get n,0,(n/2)*2 < 1312378867 593838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually scratch that, you can directly get n%2,n/2,0 < 1312378904 831306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need a temporary to swap a cell with a known zero cell in BF (although you need to know its sign in unbounded BF, as always) < 1312378914 872836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from that i think you can get to n,0,n%2 < 1312378944 239871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i'm assuming nonnegative so far < 1312378952 289438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to do a Minsky machine with three cells? < 1312378959 698662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just realised what the conversation's probably about < 1312378984 7541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractran, actually, which is just a simplified version of that 1-register division machine that's mentioned on the Minsky machine page < 1312379027 331128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and which is afaiu part of the proof that minsky machines only need 2 registers) < 1312379096 344619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to get from the 1-register minsky machine to bf you want to include the machine state in the register, and suddenly you're _very_ close to fractran. < 1312379150 647517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-minsky, although it was probably invented by minsky < 1312379214 477359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just use the BF IP to record the machine state? < 1312379244 331513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe but the fractran control flow is so much easier :P < 1312379314 280746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that given that you need mod-2 and mod-3 already, mod-other-primes is probably not too difficult < 1312379444 893334 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312379491 401920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that assuming my ideas work, the actual fractran rules _don't_ need to put the mod in a cell, keeping track of _that_ is handled by BF IP. but there is this little snag at the end of the program, where the test _does_ need to be put in a cell so that the main loop can test it to exit. that one needs only a mod 2 test, not general primes. at least that's my idea and why i asked the channel. < 1312379665 19477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess my real question is "how do you exit a loop only when a cell n is even, without clobbering it if it isn't?" but i think that's pretty much equivalent to calculating n%2 anyway. < 1312379756 519900 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just solved the 3-cell parity problem. took long enough :/ < 1312379765 369931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! < 1312379800 636151 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wont spoil. dont have time to right now. < 1312379837 960638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. i have to leave in a moment myself anyhow. < 1312379932 672099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1312380101 742397 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1312380352 617649 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312380449 393312 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312380786 660705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312380833 994614 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312380845 860731 :Tritonio!Tritonio@93.182.185.78 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312381089 467429 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312381536 753384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312381710 761410 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312382153 729573 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312382673 142925 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312383376 166739 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?41081-CARCINOgeneticist-More-like...-oh-wait.&p=5406631&viewfull=1#post5406631 *facepalm* (Homestuck spoilers) < 1312383707 762086 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312383923 688917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312383935 400637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384058 36855 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384139 867355 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312384140 107134 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312384175 368113 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384257 789245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384554 452897 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312384577 210674 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384651 854059 :GameOverR!~Rim@197.1.39.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384706 201719 :GameOverR!~Rim@197.1.39.249 PART :#esoteric < 1312384752 850489 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312384918 954192 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384920 382322 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384930 412724 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384930 614418 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384952 467600 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385136 324280 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312385429 384225 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385429 625707 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312385453 156245 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385786 826616 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312386092 804001 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312386949 25504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312387699 612261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312387794 39939 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312387994 980323 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozqfhvqwawiahwix QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312388013 982056 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312388051 899568 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312388059 192719 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312388328 898166 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312388872 983037 :iamcal!~u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlsncssuzzdmqqmg JOIN :#esoteric < 1312389174 962379 :iamcal!~u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlsncssuzzdmqqmg QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312389863 51110 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312389872 489550 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312389907 753650 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgcnprtrgqquoobb JOIN :#esoteric < 1312390794 512542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312391064 94791 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312391721 897818 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä. < 1312391839 818429 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä on mikä? < 1312392690 785924 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mika on Häkkinen. < 1312392713 941380 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1312392732 141428 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä on "ne panee koiriaan ihan oikeasti"? < 1312392741 874985 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They're really fucking their dogs." < 1312392754 968727 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. What sort of word is "koiriaan"? < 1312392800 500841 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's "koiria -an", isn't it. < 1312392806 919699 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312392838 120573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "koira" is the nominative case for "dog". < 1312392880 125113 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312392893 872488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312392904 411536 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312392910 299299 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312392936 17651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest47670 < 1312392976 301089 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it possibly should be "koiriansa" in formal written text, and what you have there is a bit of a colloquialism maybe. Since "their dogs" would be "heidän koiransa", and then, uh, is it the partitive case? I just speak the language, sorry. < 1312393085 850565 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, ...Klingon? < 1312393091 58274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish. < 1312393105 415696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312393131 681251 :Guest47670!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1312393142 718299 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there it is: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-an#Usage_notes "(third-person possessive suffix variant): When the third-person suffix -nsa is appended to non-nominative noun forms that end in a single -a (those that are in singular and plural inessive, elative, adessive, ablative, essive and abessive and plural partitive and singular partitive ending with -ta), the S and A are very often omitted from the suffix and the last A of the case suffix preceding the r < 1312393142 920829 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :emaining N is doubled — resulting in this -an. In standard Finnish, both the "full" form and the shortened form are acceptable (cf. -nsä). This same omission takes very often place also in the nominal verb forms used in shortened sentences (see the meanings of -nsa) and in the adverbs requiring this suffix:" < 1312393158 388873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even use the dog example. < 1312393301 74837 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "koiriansa -> koiriaan" and it's the third-person possessive-suffixed partitive case. I couldn't really even begin to explain why nominative -> partitive in this case goes "koiransa" -> "koiriansa" when normally the partitive suffix is -(t)a. (E.g. "koira" -> "koiraa" in the simplest case.) < 1312393612 159401 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you begin to explain why the partitive plural is "koiria"? :P < 1312393704 255712 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes. Then I guess "ihan oikeasti" is just an intensifier. < 1312393719 972702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty much like "-- for real". < 1312393751 52983 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted to ask that phrase, would it be "ihan oikeastiko"? < 1312393766 303616 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could ask that, yes. < 1312393798 56648 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even just ask "oikeesti?" with the suitable intonation when speaking. < 1312393840 924417 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just asked "ko?", I suppose people would suspect that you're asking whether the ko rule applies. < 1312393880 70097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what I'd suspect; it would be a bit weird thing to say. Maybe that. < 1312393895 443334 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would make the perfect programming language, in your eyes? < 1312393934 76439 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: having all necessary features and lacking all unnecessary features. < 1312394035 790705 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should have a static typing system that's really fucking expressive. < 1312394090 782374 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vitun expressive ihan oikeasti. < 1312394233 674509 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define expressive? < 1312394302 782622 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it should be able to define types such as "valid strategy for playing Euchre". < 1312394337 662333 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, I suppose, a function taking a Euchre situation and returning an action valid in that situation. < 1312394446 12404 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, I think there's really one feature an "esoteric API" ought to have: the ability to dynamically link libraries. < 1312394782 636500 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I wonder, how much information does a dynamic library usually contain about the functions within it? Is it just a list of addresses, or do you also know the calling convention and number of arguments? < 1312394848 763385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows, where multiple calling conventions are common, the names are mangled differently based on the convention. < 1312394852 512953 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's just addresses. < 1312394893 544565 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1312394901 739380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do some deducing based on the mangling type. But mostly it's just symbols-to-addresses. < 1312394921 219453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also deduce whether something is a function or data. < 1312394998 277536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if any debugging info formats include much metadata. Source locations and all that, at least. < 1312395073 234655 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess dynamically linking libraries is not really enough; you must also be able to call the functions in the libraries you just linked. < 1312395140 813863 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be mostly left up to the esoteric program itself, and you could just have API functions like "stick this stuff into these registers, push that stuff onto the stack, and call him". < 1312395190 81225 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Those generally *do* include type metadata. < 1312395198 72124 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312395208 481076 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of why debugging symbols take quite a bit of space. < 1312395225 790147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows name mangling for stdcall functions also include the number of argument bytes the function pops off the stack, possibly because that's one calling convention which breaks really badly if the caller and callee disagree about the number of arguments. < 1312395568 34573 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312395589 466494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1312395591 255465 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1312395594 866724 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312395600 57870 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312396153 350734 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312396331 470578 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312396756 885795 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show test < 1312396757 313998 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1312396762 675020 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1312396763 20291 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1312396765 47369 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show insanetemp < 1312396765 388273 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" < 1312396774 933696 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show nop < 1312396775 219113 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1312396791 139545 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp cat < 1312396791 425697 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for sanetemp! < 1312396792 471344 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 5 < 1312396793 923023 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-15.0 < 1312396794 199021 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1312396810 305819 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp -40 < 1312396810 734957 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty < 1312396822 507398 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312396826 767028 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 100 < 1312396827 195313 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :37.7 < 1312396839 713228 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 0 < 1312396840 141025 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :32.0 < 1312396858 668279 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 100000000000000000000000000 < 1312396859 96538 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :55555555555555555555555537.7 < 1312396867 221899 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a sane tempature. You lie. < 1312396877 61303 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 20 < 1312396877 633827 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-6.6 < 1312396880 371467 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 30 < 1312396880 941533 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1.1 < 1312397028 211501 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397028 640677 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397046 486641 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp "1k?9*5/459-p" < 1312397046 914124 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter _1k_9_5_459_p_ does not exist! < 1312397055 138088 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459-p" < 1312397055 564180 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397071 697207 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397072 259299 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-271.8 < 1312397089 437367 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397089 722686 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397137 957034 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459 67 100/++p" < 1312397138 292796 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397147 221094 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397147 791859 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646.8 < 1312397163 132374 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312397167 105323 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397167 476243 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397173 649508 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459.67+p" < 1312397173 934157 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397176 746512 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397177 123747 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646.87 < 1312397180 496692 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp -40 < 1312397181 157965 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty < 1312397186 673868 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "?" is going to have trouble with negative numbers < 1312397187 531324 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp _40 < 1312397188 101594 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :387.67 < 1312397209 359918 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 387.67 < 1312397209 900108 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :729.8 < 1312397223 39939 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397223 325384 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397224 165735 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?459.67-5*9/p" < 1312397224 546283 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397226 833574 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397227 380788 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-197.5 < 1312397230 451325 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1312397234 759939 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows nothing about dc
< 1312397238 688007 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397238 943229 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397240 33105 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?459.67+5*9/p" < 1312397240 319045 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397242 84215 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397242 656062 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :313.1 < 1312397773 145494 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot responds to PM y'know < 1312397806 260851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : dc: stack empty < 1312397806 462994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1312397817 361380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 40_ < 1312397817 789801 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :255.3 < 1312397844 163111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1312397846 259354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid dc. < 1312398220 685365 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312398498 429492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312398836 984335 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312398838 445378 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312398846 936069 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did that wrong < 1312398851 298204 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I remove that? < 1312398880 438380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try `delquote, if it works < 1312398881 972626 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 558 < 1312398883 440679 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1312398889 725386 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 558 < 1312398891 33235 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1312398932 987015 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312398934 435150 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312398974 447111 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's wht I wanted to do < 1312398995 786506 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ignored the two-space rule elliott religiously holds to. < 1312399004 756361 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 558 < 1312399006 119144 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1312399007 331784 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312399008 724903 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312399021 569798 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312399033 865208 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those people from Hexham are weird < 1312399043 440313 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this from personal experience < 1312399073 297466 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1312399117 659793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so I bought the Humble Bundle (#2 and #3), and Amazon needed nothing but the credit card number and expiry date < 1312399122 304955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the security code on the back < 1312399124 364352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort-of amazing < 1312399132 294233 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sort of creepy < 1312399145 923814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312399157 479675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the whole process of that code was to safeguard electronic transactions < 1312399169 266233 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312399180 939406 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Amazon; it's only proper that it behaves in amazing ways. < 1312399187 160742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're using the typical bank approach of "get contact details, then if something looks off, refund the charge, if it happens a lot go find someone to sue" < 1312399224 337637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, I bought it too thirteen minutes ago, and Paypal's "add card to your account" thing wanted the security code too, but of course now it's rememberating all the details, which is a bit bad. < 1312399271 899594 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than it remembering your personal PIN number that identifies you < 1312399286 579173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoided Paypal; I reasonably-trust Amazon, in that they're big enough that if they were doing particularly evil things in their payment system then I'd probably have heard about it by now < 1312399331 888180 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a few questions about Sam Hughes's Perl tutorial
< 1312399333 376070 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A hash is merely a list with an even number of elements, where the even-numbered elements (0, 2, ...) are all considered as strings." < 1312399334 580508 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312399354 665977 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that accurate? Sounds inefficient for look-ups etc. < 1312399356 59537 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paypal is, I guess, pretty big too. At least they move a lot of money. < 1312399373 107330 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, maybe "list" in Perl terms, not as a typical... meh < 1312399395 730505 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Again, unlike sort, and like grep, this block is NOT a small anonymous subroutine and you do NOT call return inside it" < 1312399400 195609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's a bit inaccurate; an even-length list is the representation of a hash used when you put data into it < 1312399410 589484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash itself is not ordered, it's just a dictionary < 1312399416 551740 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that sort of inconsistency the thing that plagues PHP? < 1312399421 799596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no such thing as a "hash literal", you use an array literal and it converts < 1312399447 283369 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also "physically" implemented as a usual-ish hashtable. < 1312399462 754524 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $scalar = ("Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma", "Pie"); < 1312399462 956996 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :print $scalar; # "4" < 1312399480 416436 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m that one < 1312399560 456290 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that's it for my questions, I think. < 1312399604 195847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weird syntax for things like sort/grep/etc is a historical reason < 1312399622 436338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they finally sorted that out in Perl 6, and the effort of finally sorting it out means that it still isn't finished < 1312399677 364656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the SQA exam results are being released. < 1312399690 691634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they'll remember my address this year. < 1312399859 297488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly PH, living in a country some of which is west of me! < 1312400144 912243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: surely it's both east /and/ west < 1312400208 297802 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm not walking East to get to Scoland < 1312400208 581687 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Scotland or that matte < 1312400208 783723 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1312400222 904684 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not going to walk West either < 1312400245 625574 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I want to go to Dumfries < 1312400448 449569 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had no money < 1312400458 674349 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the charisma to get a lift < 1312400484 821632 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the sauveness required to ge away without paying on a train < 1312400575 977260 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm not going to walk to Dumfries < 1312400590 256284 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's to the east o me < 1312400597 625223 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type for some reason < 1312401058 260531 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312401143 161300 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312401663 90929 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you calculate n/2? I scrapped that idea when I realized it's probably not possible < 1312401717 71761 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's possible either, but i think either of n/2 and n%2 gives you the other < 1312401730 843580 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312401739 746905 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for paypal, if you don't store money in the account, you're fine < 1312401746 869717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't actually sketchy on credit card or anything < 1312401761 335812 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very trigger-happy and arbitrary when it comes to termination < 1312401846 735696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that idea for doing something conditionally on ther being _two_ zero cells rather than one, how does that work, if it does? < 1312401850 895673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1312402103 553816 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to introduce a friend of mine Haskell < 1312402116 617898 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realised he doesn't understand algebra < 1312402122 874988 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persevering < 1312402132 555096 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb the masochist < 1312402156 318315 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, he's refusing to do 2 + 2 < 1312402168 587383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb the doomed < 1312402532 169561 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312402557 218128 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone recommend a programming language to an aspirin actor who's crap at maths? < 1312402564 149264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does he understand any form of programming at all? < 1312402567 797032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare. < 1312402580 158462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's an aspirin actor < 1312402593 919572 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who gives you headaches? < 1312402594 643839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One who acts in aspirin ads, duh. < 1312402640 342602 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, i've never noted that similarity before. i suppose it must have been intentional branding. < 1312402646 960197 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticed < 1312402685 934526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the first i long or short? < 1312402707 67649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 'aspirin'? Short. < 1312402712 389330 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, hm... < 1312402801 709227 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a combination of acetyl and spirsäure < 1312402810 725741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The new drug, formally acetylsalicylic acid, was named Aspirin by Bayer AG after the old botanical name for meadowsweet, Spiraea ulmaria." < 1312402884 863503 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was german, so the long vs. short i is irrelevant. < 1312403154 751305 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspirieren seems to be german < 1312403335 206625 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :null [] < 1312403345 170386 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woops, wrong tab < 1312403375 113345 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1312403388 292177 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Deewiant < 1312403409 207139 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:10 parse error on input `,' < 1312403501 527441 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::quit < 1312403522 947950 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving GHCi. < 1312403748 145111 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312403754 479064 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Mathematics_%28Bookshelf%29 are any of these a good read? < 1312404346 6952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404370 149680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312404421 75074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312404425 313687 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1312404439 897325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312404593 123350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hy < 1312404628 329560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:32:46: * pikhq_ is tempted to write a partial git implementation. Anyone think of reasons I shouldn't? < 1312404628 570899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg < 1312404631 700854 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404631 930337 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312404632 132737 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404646 599607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:01:06: what does right-leaning mean help < 1312404646 967569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy never dedents the code < 1312404647 252213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312404652 209121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallylongfunction = do ... < 1312404655 271286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the code lines are aligned with ... < 1312404658 527911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of nested conditionals < 1312404664 271070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like three hundred chars long :( < 1312404683 589252 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've forgotten < 1312404693 45646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312404702 224813 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that, but I also stick to 80 columns < 1312404702 793704 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "codelipo" < 1312404706 969706 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go make a pretty printer named that. < 1312404721 673270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should put a newline after "do" and then one indent :( < 1312404732 3716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you write C like < 1312404735 334672 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, if it fits in 80 columns < 1312404738 900627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo(int a, int b) { printf("..."); < 1312404739 103094 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually do a newline after do but sometimes I don't < 1312404785 969613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:22:14: "The report has sparked anger from IE supporters, who have threatened AptiQuant with legal action. < 1312404786 172196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1312404801 976047 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was later revealeed a fraud < 1312404812 665217 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole shazam < 1312404824 472183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it was a hoax < 1312404861 579325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um that quote appeared a few lines after the article saying it was a hoax. < 1312404862 126888 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn you mean i won't get my money? < 1312404887 319469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes you will. (good thing you're stupid enough to believe this) < 1312404908 122744 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. excellent. < 1312404933 790109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AptiQuant was set up in late July 2011 by comparison shopping website AtCheap.com, in order to launch a fake “studyâ€� called “Intelligent Quotient and Browser Usage.â€� The study claimed that people using Internet Explorer have a below than average IQ score. The study took the IT world by storm. The main purpose behind this hoax was to create awareness about the incompatibilities of IE6, and not to insult or hurt anyone. < 1312404953 414228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time on aptiquant.com: Report on Just How Fucking Stupid We Can Possibly Be < 1312404973 921859 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't ie6 dead < 1312404978 438069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312404980 785449 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312404987 2962 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312404993 543751 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cpp work well on Java code? < 1312405005 679789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, yes < 1312405009 31137 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it < 1312405034 331149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not massively well, because Java code tends not to include #include and #define and all the other stuff that's generally needed to make cpp do something useful < 1312405039 69508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People with higher IQ are shunning Internet Explorer study - Computer Business Review < 1312405056 126704 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that was a hoax < 1312405065 140687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1312405072 398557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In May 2010, Microsoft started its "milk campaign", saying that using IE6 is like drinking nine-year-old milk. < 1312405084 833991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this explains Firefox's new "release once every week" policy. < 1312405085 548579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as long as it isn't it gives us opera users more reason to feel good about ourselves and look down on other-browser users < 1312405095 940616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, there was an awesome bit of spam which I left for you, but Keymaker deleted it < 1312405100 896731 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight < 1312405101 676939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( < 1312405104 390038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so using IE9 is like drinking month-old milk? < 1312405108 219879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was advertising Google < 1312405114 298528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was my Firefox joke >:( < 1312405115 236673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had a link to google.com at the end < 1312405119 637952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312405122 793897 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: THEY ARE HERE < 1312405126 971136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you delete it for like three seconds or something < 1312405135 28689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N AnyPL‎; 18:55 . . (+18,908) . . PLarsen (Talk | contribs) (Renamed APL to AnyPL to avoid misconceptions) < 1312405137 393122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . APL‎; 18:58 . . (-18,999) . . PLarsen (Talk | contribs) (APL is renamed to AnyPL) < 1312405143 8603 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats move page < 1312405143 435980 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312405146 337404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can I ask you to delete AnyPL, revert that change to APL, and move it to AnyPL? < 1312405169 442084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : google is a search engine which clearly is a search google will give google maps ,google world, google news google mail etc[http://www.google.com google] < 1312405181 703476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a license violation since they're the only contributor and we're public domain, but it still erases history < 1312405189 94967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it clearly is a search :D < 1312405208 715258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can call a language User:Icornellhoffmane < 1312405217 525745 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are probably edits to AnyPL for at least the name change... < 1312405221 537905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icornellhoffmane sounds like a cool language name, though < 1312405228 161220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um yes but they can easily be repeated. < 1312405241 626808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saving AnyPL's source code < 1312405245 85927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saving it over the resulting article < 1312405249 438700 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :User:Icornellhoffmane/index.php < 1312405258 617633 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430 is sad news then < 1312405274 487846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, please don't tell me how to do a history merge < 1312405275 194988 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "Internet Explorer story was bogus" story) < 1312405281 504913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1312405282 855975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not if you get it wrong < 1312405286 619681 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i'm just worried ais523 might take you literally < 1312405286 822450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh did I :( < 1312405298 507172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he has access to deleted pages, anyway < 1312405309 137683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forgot it was common practice, and also forgot the name < 1312405309 800116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I didit wrong too < 1312405312 947205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1312405316 815712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to tell you how to do it < 1312405322 543443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, groan < 1312405329 750060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot to omit the blanking change < 1312405344 656975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't < 1312405349 813645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a change made to the combined pages < 1312405370 193480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it breaks the diffs < 1312405390 90306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just vandalism + revert < 1312405396 996938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312405417 713432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you do a combined delete+move first, then undelete, then set the top revision < 1312405426 328826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got the last two steps in the wrong order, and so set the wrong top revision < 1312405460 108260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my way was equivalent if the wrongly moved page has no changes made < 1312405487 894990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it leaves there with no revisions on the page for a while, and people wonder why the page has been deleted < 1312405496 109194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used to have to do something like that < 1312405503 286173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312405513 548668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I ended up editing db-histmerge to say "this page needs to be temporarily deleted" or something like that < 1312405524 669838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people are all "WHY ARE YOU DELETING MY PAGE" < 1312405682 959658 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312405710 413857 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312405962 183578 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[[->+<],]>. < 1312405962 385596 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312405965 729579 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test hm < 1312405965 931576 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Õ < 1312405970 54799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312405997 755748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, indeed, was unexpected. < 1312406009 294482 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1312406032 197924 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[>[-]<[->+<],]>. < 1312406032 400400 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312406035 893160 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test hm < 1312406036 95289 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :m < 1312406438 5485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :furniture: the movie < 1312406600 287551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im....glfwpipe......................................................... < 1312406606 866783 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312406619 339659 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is logo a functional language? < 1312406696 204382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is scheme a functional language < 1312406733 516645 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help whats a functieonl language help < 1312406757 823660 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BASIC a functional language? < 1312406768 497164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cobol a functional language < 1312406773 269398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is monqy a functional language < 1312406800 990111 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im the most fucntioanl language hello < 1312406807 508184 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is elliott a functional < 1312406811 396870 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :is english a functional language < 1312406813 109907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is olsner functional < 1312406822 379920 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is functional? < 1312406829 666542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional olsner < 1312406835 484275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312406850 275995 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :objective elliott < 1312406890 594213 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :structured water: functional healing < 1312406913 662066 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is the topic so empty nowadays? < 1312406927 261040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because anti-clog sentiment < 1312406928 996183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brewed < 1312406932 430827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i clamp on down on it < 1312406937 532766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my fsits < 1312406943 756516 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is clog a functional language < 1312406948 66574 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic is glove, much too glove < 1312406960 682394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-glove it < 1312406988 990470 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a functional language < 1312406990 271597 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unglove my heart^Wtopic < 1312407075 196786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.org < 1312407077 56812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312407101 671461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.org.com.net.ng < 1312407111 488125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tk < 1312407118 219401 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.co.uk < 1312407125 998743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.biz.info < 1312407141 3780 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is all concatenated, right? otherwise it's just silly...) < 1312407142 53967 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.java.lang < 1312407154 985077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1312407159 365510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Exception < 1312407160 742382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good < 1312407189 888971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.good < 1312407198 696316 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.god < 1312407208 109003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.jesus < 1312407219 269866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.holyghost < 1312407224 675573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.email < 1312407236 417462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xxx < 1312407283 139235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@istanbul.cn < 1312407283 341259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1312407294 381810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new email address < 1312407383 182118 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istanbul isn't in china < 1312407405 993191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : YET! < 1312407471 251032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312407802 349628 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312407854 895240 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312407881 61826 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know what mathematical formula appears in this video at the time 2:08? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0 < 1312407948 548789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh please, you already sent me that link < 1312407991 146183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube links should probably be forbidden in #esoteric, they seldom do anything good in here < 1312408122 43725 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, something like "lol, this zardoz thing! you should, like, totally, check out the trailer on like youtube" would be a different issue entirely < 1312408141 291454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, mostly anyway < 1312408206 188231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312408273 800878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what < 1312408389 289755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1312408408 887083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D. < 1312408442 875147 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Dd. < 1312408456 648544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CLICK ON VAN DAMMES MULLET TO SEE MORE" -- actual internet advert < 1312408542 886284 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312408556 996546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of ad < 1312408557 781476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this < 1312408566 973 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the mullet moving < 1312408573 832192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312408576 155200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a picture < 1312408581 496512 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get a free ipod if you click it < 1312408592 221006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for coors light i think < 1312408620 699848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ompldr.org/vOXF3bQ < 1312408660 340630 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but technically his mullet would be behind his face, wouldn't it? < 1312408722 885752 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[>+[-[---->+++++<]<[>>[-----<++++>]<++<-[->>+<<]]>>[-<<+>>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<]<.,] < 1312408723 127570 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312408730 523018 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test 0123456789 < 1312408731 913670 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :<123A567F9 < 1312408757 712067 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1312408786 652700 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 60 < 1312408787 571442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '<' < 1312408796 96573 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats going on :/ < 1312408806 486372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm testing part of my fractran conversion < 1312408838 658933 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that appears to be a working "if (n%4 == 0) then n=5*(n/4);" < 1312408865 559460 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iterating over input characters, for testing) < 1312408942 680388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :DDDDDDDDDDDDddddddddd < 1312408965 471252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it can be done (if a program is written) converting MSE file into TeXnicard file. For card data you could probably do it both ways, although various template features and stuff has only in TeXnicard. You also probably it is difficult to convert the scripts between MSE and TeXnicard. < 1312408994 861159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i still have that minor halting problem you'll find in the logs < 1312409018 111420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1312409027 299577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i will click on van dammes mullet to see more, < 1312409106 881402 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i can iterate things of the form if (n%C1 == 0) then n=C2*(n/C1)+C3; but the == 0 detection is such that i cannot use it to halt the main program... < 1312409136 782238 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have made prettyprinting Haskell, although, there is still a few things wrong. It includes: < 1312409140 303063 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Spacing is a bit wrong < 1312409146 332248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Template Haskell is not supported < 1312409163 803719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pragmas not yet supported < 1312409208 114984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Magic hash is only partially supported < 1312409226 779316 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have bullet points < 1312409230 199457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cannot make strings span multiple source texts < 1312409245 681713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Some of the default symbols should be changed and more should be added < 1312409265 517242 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, can you see how it currently is? See if it seem good, or whatever else it is? < 1312409284 221537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:34:35: Numberwang depends on more variables than a single number < 1312409284 647556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:13: No, but I was once in the studio audience of the show < 1312409284 849740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to go "cool" but tHTNE,.... < 1312409286 900936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EREALISED IT WAS A FAKE SHOW < 1312409297 792904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well due to the problem posed tnis morning, i did figure out how to find x%n in n+1 cells for all positive n (and i suspect i could make n a parameter for just one more cell). that was fun puzzle, thanks. < 1312409300 101965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Bullet points? Do you mean as a part of the program code or else? < 1312409300 342815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, i can iterate things of the form if (n%C1 == 0) then n=C2*(n/C1)+C3; but the == 0 detection is such that i cannot use it to halt the main program... < 1312409341 147211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm well I know a BF Joust technique is to turn if(a){b}else{c};d into while(a){b;d};c;d < 1312409351 147223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but that's when you have bounds on program running time, etc... < 1312409359 149117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can know it'll never go past d < 1312409363 65549 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: note that the original x needs to be preserved in some cell < 1312409382 285410 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no i mean more bullet points than the ones you just posted < 1312409387 831064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i didnt assume that. it takes one more cell if you want to do that < 1312409390 657646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least reconstructable < 1312409393 640193 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the main feature of your program is bullet points < 1312409395 620142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: darn :( < 1312409398 312097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:39: Taneb: you've seen numberwang *LIVE*!? < 1312409398 514289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:40: i know almost nothing about it < 1312409398 514465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:57: as i've never used it myself < 1312409398 514564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:53:20: it's for compile-time metaprogramming, afaik < 1312409422 83709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: No, I was just listing what some of the problem are currently with the program. < 1312409433 259170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:59: Do you know, if it is allowed in Template Haskell, to have one $ command that will return something for use of the next $ command that is found if it can use it? < 1312409441 532573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you mean an impure splice, basically? < 1312409445 907462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. $(foo) could be 9 one place and 0 another < 1312409491 384655 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it turned out he hadn't, he merely simply just lied about having done that < 1312409493 820922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :splices run in the Q monad which is a MonadIO, so yes, they can be non-deterministic, and even delete files or whatever if they want. storing a value for next time is probably possible by manipulating places you can store state in IO. they couldn't use an IORef without unsafePerformIO < 1312409500 269251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: numberwang is not real......... < 1312409500 696109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I mean a bit like that < 1312409506 679875 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course it is < 1312409526 796750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:39: Can you compile Haskell codes into LLVM codes? I have read LLVM documentation it does suppports Haskell calling convention < 1312409533 28279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GHC has this < 1312409538 639880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's quickly becoming the most favoured backend. < 1312409548 954826 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r.i.p. c-- < 1312409574 256551 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: but that's when you have bounds on program running time, etc... <-- not particularly useful when you're trying to make a program which _actually_ halts :P < 1312409578 559228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:07:58: Not what I am looking for, though. What it is, is if there is something for adding LLVM codes into a program similar to "asm" command in C, except using LLVM codes instead of native codes, and for Haskell instead of only with C < 1312409593 212416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you can achieve something semi-equivalent by compiling LLVM IR at runtime using the API, and then casting that to a function type < 1312409597 777545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1312409606 393923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could use <<< as a sure-fire halter >:) < 1312409642 252433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But can you, for example, the return value of a $(...) can be a pair of one value (probably a union type) and the second one is the object representing what is replaced in the program code < 1312409666 981178 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I rather referred to the numberwang sketch(es), which might have had live audiences (though I think they wouldn't have been watching numberwang per se, but rather would've been watching mitchell and webb) < 1312409683 834920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't understand what you mean by "the object representing what is replaced in the program code" < 1312409688 5061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, but I mean can you include LLVM codes at compile-time? I don't mean at run-time < 1312409733 943010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't think so < 1312409752 760594 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : r.i.p. c-- <-- wait it's gone? < 1312409786 203932 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know < 1312409802 169135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not gone < 1312409810 610563 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not going, that is < 1312409864 254060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:42: is there a name for a numbering system where every single positive integer has a distinct symbol? < 1312409865 865170 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might find the flagging technique i used helps with the halting issue (if you dont already use it). it essentially lets you exit a loop if any of a whole bunch of cells has been zeroed... < 1312409866 799695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the naturals < 1312409873 391591 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312409882 59475 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that subject is over < 1312409882 801277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whole bunch" he has precisely three cells < 1312409888 914414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i un-overed it < 1312409895 8103 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, the type of "..." expression in $(...) which can be "Q Exp" or "Q Typ" or "Q [Dec]" so can it be made a pair instead so that you can keep track of previous things? Such as, you can do put everything figured out previously at the end, or prevent duplicates, or whatever < 1312409918 462057 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is he trrying to fit the entire converter into 3 cells? < 1312409928 520682 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: you could use <<< as a sure-fire halter >:) <-- i don't think so. also i'm not sure i can actually perform an action _specifically_ when something is %2 == 0 < 1312409933 104862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm not quite sure i understand < 1312409936 949289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's the whole point of the converter < 1312409946 387019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was a joke, if you only have three cells then <<< is necessarily invalid < 1312409948 417968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1312409957 996607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: to prove that three-cell BF is tc < 1312409964 615239 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312409977 290600 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we know already that four cell BF is? < 1312409986 924691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:56:09: he's talking about an infinite number of symbols. I don't think that has a name. < 1312409987 127101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, it's called a "set" < 1312409990 616230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no. oerjan is just hardcore. < 1312409993 176776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know that six is IIRC < 1312409995 465195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it seven < 1312410006 640769 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it five < 1312410014 204803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you basically saying that you want foo in $(foo) to be able to use global state? < 1312410014 490409 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dont know ;_; < 1312410022 334839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you do $(foo "a") it will note that "a" has been done < 1312410029 449984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not do it again if you say $(foo "a") later or whatever < 1312410083 170542 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: five < 1312410084 952536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:57:28: it is not dumb < 1312410085 237503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:58:11: becuase youll only ever need a finite subset of the digits, its basically the same as "base x, where x is the largest number you need right now" < 1312410085 439623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same fallacy that makes a language with a fixed-but-arbitrary-size heap TC < 1312410092 93305 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, i hadn't sent you any links < 1312410095 379621 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't feel so special < 1312410107 328439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You failed to understand? O, well, I don't know much about Haskell so maybe I wrote everything mixed up. But, I mean, for example, if "xyz" is a function receiving (Integer) and then returns (Integer,Q Exp) type then you can type $(xyz) so it expects the last pair with Integer type at first and makes the new one Integer and then put the Q Exp expression spliced out < 1312410126 161350 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really care if you've seen it 2 or 0 times unless you're going to recognize the formula, then i care but only a tiny bit. < 1312410146 247088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i realized it was dumb later...it'd be better if you just finished reading everything before commenting < 1312410146 922157 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I see what you mean, but then again anything I see on my screen has been sent to me, regardless of who the recipient(s) was/were < 1312410162 949020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that is not the Way. < 1312410170 30559 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't sent it to you. i had sent it to a channel, to which you subscribed by joining. < 1312410178 798614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I still don't quite understand < 1312410208 140019 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: still your fault I saw it < 1312410217 944866 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything, i hadn't opted to send it to you, you opted to receive it < 1312410226 927076 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its not how you do things, and that you intentionally elect to be annoying about backlog commenting, but i can still hold out hope you will become civilized can't i? < 1312410232 180759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that olsner < 1312410234 391361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare he say "oh please, you already sent me that link" < 1312410235 641787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1312410237 797600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you show him dude < 1312410247 925806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you realise oerjan did it first :) < 1312410249 515045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and continues to < 1312410256 163295 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, elliott is always annoying < 1312410266 204873 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to live with it, he can't be changed < 1312410269 55156 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Indeed. < 1312410272 925837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cheater woke up on the wrong side of the bed today < 1312410275 258656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(his bed has two wrong sides) < 1312410289 950751 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bed has about six sides < 1312410297 452844 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's in 3-D Space < 1312410299 402532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, two wrong sides... how many sides does that leave for being the right side(s)? < 1312410306 745452 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :four. < 1312410310 451484 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312410316 756621 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont forget inside and outside < 1312410319 359144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well i assumed it is against a wall < 1312410319 561700 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would hate to wake up on the under-side of my bed) < 1312410322 839209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess he could lunge over the front < 1312410327 482847 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, those are SIDES too! < 1312410328 859151 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the inside, of course < 1312410335 592333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other sides, but none of them are practical to exit from. < 1312410339 26389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit on < 1312410358 415208 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who said anything about exiting the bed? < 1312410364 980455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's waking up that's the issue < 1312410375 694168 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312410379 107976 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live in a room with no walls < 1312410387 584684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater is homeless. < 1312410392 940947 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1312410403 468605 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is my home!!!!! < 1312410474 310992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:58:57: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/thetree.png < 1312410474 513232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are really shitty trees < 1312410501 826643 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a spectrogram < 1312410515 849111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312410517 208064 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :559) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312410524 212812 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people call logo the lisp without parentheses? < 1312410529 63826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can explain better. something :: String -> (Integer,Q Exp) something x = [| aaa bbb |] f x = $(something) Now there must be at least one previous $(...) of type "(anything) -> (String,Q (anything))" < 1312410531 817392 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost exactly like the spectrograms that websdr gives you < 1312410561 491060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it doesn't have to be the directly previous one, there can be anything else in between) < 1312410572 939119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: because it is a fixed-arity lisp. < 1312410580 314802 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: because it is rather similar below the syntax < 1312410582 569781 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that song totally does not look sequenced. < 1312410584 221325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something :: String -> (Integer,Q Exp) something x = [| aaa bbb |] < 1312410586 635150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this is not valid < 1312410599 461126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something x = (length x, [| aaa |]) might be. < 1312410608 642189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that, sorry. Now you made better. < 1312410613 603068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got mixed up. < 1312410621 170621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = $(something) < 1312410627 609571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not valid, because something is not of type Q Exp < 1312410631 857628 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your example is the kind of things I mean. < 1312410649 827029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I know is not valid. I am asking if there is some way to do something similar to what I described < 1312410656 425897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312410664 567321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, is there a way to make it valid. < 1312410670 880245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now there must be at least one previous $(...) of type "(anything) -> (String,Q (anything))"" <-- what do you mean by "there must be at least one previous" etc.? < 1312410679 244058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do you want to stop anyone using that splice once? < 1312410682 507092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to use it two or three times or whatever < 1312410697 167636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean there must be an input otherwise how can it be used? < 1312410699 217894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the Integer record the number of times the splice has been used? < 1312410713 179470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah. well yes, (String -> Q Exp) is not of type Q Exp. < 1312410717 978194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Integer" would be the input. So there must be a input < 1312410718 545058 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do you just mean state < 1312410735 658086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Yes, maybe I mean like that < 1312410737 417413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the Integer there is part of the return type < 1312410741 347165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not part of the input < 1312410788 589463 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in state < 1312410801 981138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrive in state < 1312410805 291417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:02: dude < 1312410805 494042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:08: using negatives is not a flaw < 1312410809 913169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it is if negatives impact his translation < 1312410844 985119 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I'm bruteforcing VVVVVV puzzles? < 1312410882 249424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll pass this question on to our VVVVVVVVVVVvvvvvvvvv expert FireFly < 1312410883 406216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1312410884 543213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1312410899 73661 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did finish VVVVVV < 1312410911 738999 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finished the uh < 1312410913 276933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :free demo < 1312410919 816947 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1312410932 969392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should buy the bnudle............ < 1312410938 819547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :idnie bnudle. < 1312410940 865865 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should < 1312411018 945339 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bnudle is probably good but the trailer killed me and did bad things to my corpse < 1312411049 578014 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think it was the trailer < 1312411063 902777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:53: yes, also they're hard to use here < 1312411064 105403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:37:12: but then maybe it could be essential < 1312411069 622712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is BF with only balanced loops TC? < 1312411080 494196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somewhat doubt it considering how simple an instruction set you can translate them to < 1312411096 236567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, then you _must_ used an unbalanced loop somewhere. < 1312411097 258719 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes it is. < 1312411100 971421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh, okay < 1312411106 150403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cool, we should eliminate them, then < 1312411111 364818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make optimisation a hell of a lot easier. < 1312411146 134906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i haven't used any unbalanced loops in the conversion yet, but i'd use one if it could help with the halting... < 1312411183 563437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq_'s BFM worked much better when generating balanced loops iirc < 1312411189 852011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you can arrange things so that you would fortuitously land on a 0 when you need to halt... < 1312411198 232169 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do unbalanced loops workii forget the spec < 1312411198 434716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, well obviously compilers can do balanced loops really quickly < 1312411204 657022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the polynomial translation < 1312411228 883422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: unbalanced = doesn't move left as much as it moves right < 1312411249 630018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312411254 355088 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1312411259 158925 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking different things oops < 1312411274 561400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes the Integer is part of return type in that example, which means the input type of one of the $(...) in the future can be Integer. But since the input type this time is String, requires one of the previous ones to have a pair with String as the output < 1312411287 940859 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you understand what I mean? < 1312411301 854495 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I feel like I was mashing buttons for the chords < 1312411317 355291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you mean... < 1312411324 573015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: $(something 9) could return (Integer, Q Exp) < 1312411326 786616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1312411329 693387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: $(something 9) could return (String, Q Exp) < 1312411333 957511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in $(something x) < 1312411337 989087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x would have to be a String?? < 1312411342 913275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see what you mean at all < 1312411378 397205 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleeping diode < 1312411388 971752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleeping? < 1312411437 410461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No! I mean, probably you would have a function with a type "Integer -> String -> (Integer, Q Exp)" then you can have "$(something 42)" which results in a type "String -> (Integer, Q Exp)" which is the type of the splice. And then it call it with the previous one having type "(String, Q Exp)" or "(String, Q [Dec])" etc, the first of that pair is the input of the function, the output the second part makes the expression. < 1312411458 563504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1312411460 964819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1312411462 784445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use it like: < 1312411467 555061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$($(something 99) "abc")? < 1312411483 726085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That is not what I mean. < 1312411512 121320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312411516 145255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably at first you would need something with the input type being () so that you can start < 1312411526 705607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you always need a input value and you don't have any < 1312411589 838306 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will write a better example < 1312411592 694542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:51:35: What would make the perfect programming language, in your eyes? < 1312411592 896524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang :-P < 1312411592 896711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1312411634 177965 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto < 1312411641 55622 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang too < 1312411641 625011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1312411645 479110 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: apparently c-- is still used when compiling with llvm, it's the last common stage before all the separate backends, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Compiler/HscMain < 1312411651 286446 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312411807 676844 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i do recall there was some backend which went off an earlier stage < 1312411829 331209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an experimental one, i wonder if it was the javascript one < 1312411846 576483 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait that wasn't ghc at all was it. < 1312411871 739874 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yhc, apparently < 1312411886 398818 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1312411891 227229 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312411907 294204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip yhc < 1312411950 646675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:28:55: null [] < 1312411950 931023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:05: Woops, wrong tab < 1312411951 133433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:35: True < 1312411951 133660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:48: Thank you, Deewiant < 1312411951 133771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:09: :1:10 parse error on input `,' < 1312411951 658380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31:41: :quit < 1312411953 841697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:32:02: Leaving GHCi. < 1312411957 794529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you should have done /quit Leaving GHCi. instead :P < 1312412086 577565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Humble Indie Bundle 2 games added to the Humble Indie Bundle 3 < 1312412088 656748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for goodness sake < 1312412227 341492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1312412237 451749 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you get to play gish < 1312412242 844026 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that in HIB1 < 1312412258 459616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's hib2 specific now < 1312412259 871269 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything < 1312412424 79290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is better example http://sprunge.us/cHbI I know it is wrong that is why I ask what other way to do a similar thing. < 1312412567 107209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is understand?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1312412577 731301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll check < 1312412611 463899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, so what you want is mutable state < 1312412617 10448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do this: < 1312412631 131003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :state :: IORef Bool; state = unsafePerformIO $ newIORef False < 1312412635 832399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbb :: Q Exp < 1312412668 814615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbb = do r <- liftIO $ readIORef state; liftIO $ writeIORef state False; if r then [ | 5 |] else [| 7 |] < 1312412673 115392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly for cc < 1312412679 863790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aaa becomes unneccessary because we specify an initialiser < 1312412687 284291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this requires unsafePerformIO though, which is Bad < 1312412690 371581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed breaks the type system < 1312412694 113761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is thus kept in an unsafe module < 1312412704 736365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you want to do it safely, then you need to exploit the fact that you can access the IO monad from Q < 1312412706 544281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, it is unsafePerformIO that is why I wanted it differently without unsafe < 1312412715 568640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you could use whether stdout is in binary mode or not < 1312412726 85397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other piece of internal state that doesn't matter to you < 1312412730 955899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a huge hack, of course < 1312412737 777597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write out the boolean to a file and read it back in, too < 1312412738 980695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1312412745 598790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally i'd say that you shouldn't :P < 1312412757 387259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc if it's just for a fun hack then it's fine. but then if it's just for a fun hack unsafePerformIO is ok too. < 1312412767 353945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes it can almost certainly be done < 1312412770 324220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be ugly though :) < 1312412807 885264 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, don't mutable state ;_; < 1312412814 817267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that wouldn't be very well, which is why I asked it differently. But, OK, now I know at least it can be done in case it is necessary < 1312412880 253936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it probably can. if your user has no permissions to write any kind of file at all, you rely on stdout being in a certain encoding so you can't change that, ..., then you couldn't do it < 1312412892 990992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect the base libraries have some way to twiddle a bit on and off without effecting everything, by accident :) < 1312412995 423467 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got an idea why gawk AND mawk would both only output one space when doing this? LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 gawk 'BEGIN{ printf(".%3s.\n", "ü")}' < 1312413027 755281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe another way would be to make $(doeverything x) where doeverything :: [([Integer], Q [Dec])] -> Q [Dec] < 1312413028 990382 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it works on other people's computers < 1312413030 695466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this way work? < 1312413036 210100 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i tried on all my computers and it doesn't < 1312413052 460507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um well x would have to be a list of ([Integer], Q [Dec])s < 1312413055 571896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a weird thing to pass < 1312413073 124148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know it is < 1312413084 693585 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be that my libc is somehow fucked up? < 1312413174 293278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a different type instead of [Integer] it should be a monad on the first half of the pair, or a function type. And then you can have commands that can check these thing the function "doeverything" pass each result to the next one and then make the output Q [Dec] based on each one put it together < 1312413230 861559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong when I put [Integer] probably a function type or a monad type (or maybe you need both?) would work instead < 1312413259 370788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. if you return type is (Q Dec), then you cannot cause any effects outside of Q. < 1312413275 699414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are restricted to what effects Q offers < 1312413379 673965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: So, what, ". ü." is the string it should output? < 1312413501 332884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://sprunge.us/WZLA help this is too funny (guy in haskell logs has team, is developing online version of Risk, apparently no good at concurrent programming, expects 10000 concurrent users) < 1312413560 986064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:42 do you guys compile your haskell to machine code? < 1312413577 520307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(06:47:05 what do they mean when they say pascal is pure?) < 1312413637 91546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know whether to keep this guy away from haskell or force him to learn it until he becomes smart < 1312413651 100873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they mean when they say pascal is pure < 1312413653 212336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312413738 360055 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it should output two spaces to the left of the umlaut u < 1312413751 897416 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. ü. < 1312413790 332239 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice the string specifier is %3s which means the field should be formatted to 3 characters wide. < 1312413837 367015 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did they reach a conclusion < 1312413847 109105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im not srue................................................................... < 1312413956 192528 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you'll notice that it works for ascii letters and other single-byte characters. it does for me too. now for multibyte characters it might work for you, but it most certainly does not work here < 1312413996 557375 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im searching for zyclops does this make me a bad person < 1312414013 927498 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:17 Zyclops hey pythoners, anyone know how to get python-setuptools installed under bsd? < 1312414016 906158 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:22 Zyclops ah ha < 1312414019 348253 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:23 Zyclops i't py-setuptools under /ports/devel/ < 1312414030 132476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard from again < 1312414037 962521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312414043 256171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312414084 150038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can pass the list [((Xyzzy, Q [Dec]) -> (Xyzzy, Q [Dec]), Q [Dec])] So that, you can have a type "Xyzzy" which tells the things need to keep track of, and then Q [Dec] is the program codes and the other one is a function that transform it based on the state, you can have a function taking parameter and make output due to currying functions too < 1312414092 608876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:40:06 erus`: linux-programmers only know about shell scripting and C < 1312414154 973527 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312414167 680218 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am having trouble finding zyclops' risk adventures online < 1312414184 878910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/11.07.31 < 1312414186 412327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he gave up :( < 1312414186 614549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur welcmome < 1312414208 978135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that recent? < 1312414214 681225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some things of AWK, but I never used AWK with Unicode, I have only used AWK with ASCII, so I don't know the answer of the questions you asked about AWK < 1312414247 477196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1312414259 955529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1312414260 964802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it < 1312414275 725435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/11.07.31 < 1312414276 725710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312414419 886429 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:34 erm.. my progamming liniage went…. BBC basic -> basic -> visual basic -> c++ -> java -> php -> ruby < 1312414431 903667 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he leaves < 1312414432 898651 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312414499 774312 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where, "Xyzzy" is a object that keeps track of all the information needed tp be kept track of between the different pieces of the Haskell codes, so that the record might include a number and a function that increments that number and include it, or a list to keep track of duplicates and put all fields of a record spread out moved together, etc) < 1312414634 824378 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1312414638 264395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, how can you otherwise make a number in Template Haskell that increments after each time? < 1312414657 591154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, if you don't use unsafe or other I/O stuff that doesn't belong) < 1312414861 891287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: using IO from within Q is perfectly acecptable. < 1312414863 559511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acceptable. < 1312414878 12096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using unsafe functions probably is not, but IO is supposed to be accessible from Q. < 1312414905 240955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runIO :: IO a -> Q aSource < 1312414905 443100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runIO function lets you run an I/O computation in the Q monad. Take care: you are guaranteed the ordering of calls to runIO within a single Q computation, but not about the order in which splices are run. < 1312414905 645258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: for various murky reasons, stdout and stderr handles are not necesarily flushed when the compiler finishes running, so you should flush them yourself. < 1312414909 635337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/aSource/a/ < 1312414917 200001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1312414921 730237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my solution was _incorrect_ < 1312414927 81292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because splices can be run in any order < 1312414937 358732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, no, there is no way for them to predictably keep state < 1312415370 289343 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312415437 658991 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1312415486 55555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, so there isn't a way. Maybe I can propose the variant which keeps state. In addition to types "Q Exp" and "Q Typ" and so on, the result can also be of a type "x -> (y, Q Exp)" and "x -> (y, Q Typ)" and so on, where "y" can be any type, and "x" must be either "()" or the same as the "y" type of a previous splice. The ordering of splices in a "chain" is guaranteed but others aren't. < 1312415503 285682 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312415583 46884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how well it would work with the rest of the stuff they have. < 1312415816 359669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1312415831 647675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, umm, that's just the state monad. < 1312415846 430655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you cannot really force an ordering of splices at all. < 1312415852 201024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the compiler can compile modules in any order, etc. < 1312415906 357593 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it all in a single splice?