< 1311033951 663965 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311034053 396700 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311035713 809037 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311036394 514023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311036851 115934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/w7cns.jpg This was the Yahoo! News pictures page. Today. < 1311036945 879837 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freakishly long eyelashes? FINALLY < 1311037139 201308 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311037166 570381 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311037539 332659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, seems... outdated < 1311037545 372487 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1311037559 839844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not all from the same time period either < 1311037565 396735 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people on the Internet younger than some of those pictures. < 1311037583 722652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, when is the Los Angeles freeway shutdown from < 1311037593 983270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Present. < 1311037597 972368 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This weekend only. < 1311037612 758266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311038285 76720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears that francisco mota (User:FMota on our reddit) just started http://www.reddit.com/r/lambdapuzzles < 1311038379 605918 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/wol3-2011-07-18.ogg < 1311038395 447012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on our wiki < 1311038400 383694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1311038403 742580 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puzzles in Lambda calculus = possibly the best worst idea ever. < 1311038545 654245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311038667 997087 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR IS IT < 1311038774 693127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear to have at least assimilated phantom_hoover < 1311038811 302382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An insidious /r/, indeed < 1311038886 567343 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311038886 918291 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311038887 116192 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311040041 962242 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :Godwin < 1311040064 410470 :Godwin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311040201 569794 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311040656 539530 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311040958 872005 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311041604 739544 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311042595 590708 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311043357 485282 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311045868 664715 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311045936 294976 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311046363 118791 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311046718 873327 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311048873 793950 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311049326 669772 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311049701 429270 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311049951 940270 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: work to do < 1311050009 734005 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311050047 939516 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True Fact™: Most men feel inadequate if their hair is longer than their penis. < 1311050096 799931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True Factā„¢: Most men with long hair have nothing to compensate for. < 1311050602 298062 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311052145 379257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hair is longer than my penis :( < 1311052176 526462 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i can wrap it around my penis. < 1311052577 695635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got new earbuds just yesterday (or the day before). The wire's already on the verge of breaking I think < 1311052676 864415 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs wireless headphones < 1311053194 238329 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you gnaw on it or what < 1311053260 817417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it keeps getting bent < 1311053383 377830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I hate that when earbud wires bend. < 1311053558 704710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: It's just because your head is spinning all the time! < 1311053762 903203 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311053774 855449 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311054097 793711 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-169-11.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311054118 646345 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311055600 640902 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... if only they could invent flexible wires < 1311055809 214993 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a wire can conduct electricity then it has done it's job. asking for it to be flexible is overreaching. it is not in the nature of a wire to flex. < 1311055895 880956 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311055915 735223 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311056213 237526 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311056229 766214 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311057530 608992 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311057551 24040 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311057731 390597 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311057741 834746 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311060643 941624 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311061747 862156 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311061760 823183 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311062178 124821 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311062761 678225 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311062782 928664 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311062783 201532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311062793 154820 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311063854 787771 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. < 1311063860 803646 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In regards of them helloes.) < 1311063861 776086 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 15 < 1311063877 965856 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've just gave me a different result < 1311063897 733577 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I don't see how that matters. < 1311063928 892567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows that in this case, it wasn't necassarily insane to expect different results < 1311064008 910389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the saying doesn't specify anything about whether you will or will not get different results. < 1311064018 904794 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311064021 685660 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311064032 619698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that is the spirit of the sayin < 1311064034 133016 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1311064042 671830 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311064050 1293 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in spirits, sorry. < 1311064050 965620 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If different results are likely to occur, is it not insane to expect repitition? < 1311064152 374382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what the saying's saying. (I seem to be doing the same thing over and over again here.) < 1311064197 102542 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as the people on the channel as well as the time changed between each "Hello", are they really the same thing? < 1311064236 756995 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ten seconds, with no join/parts in-between... I would classify those last two instances pretty much the same thing. < 1311064256 651174 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311064263 203672 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inbetween the last two, my client said augur had joined < 1311064270 387445 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa hello < 1311064314 786414 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen from here, it was the other way around. Anyway, I don't have a real point here, I just thought it'd be utterly pedestrian to just reply back with yet another "hello". < 1311064381 513558 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1311064963 182781 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.243.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311065067 583131 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1311065080 383199 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebGone < 1311067084 21315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311067195 222788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the haps my friends. < 1311067288 316294 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hap, n.2: /north. dial./ A covering of any kind. 1724 A. Ramsay Tea-table Misc., Hap me with thy petticoat, Grant me for a hap that charming petticoat. < 1311067344 504057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so elliott__ presumably knows all about them. < 1311067469 429849 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also verbable. < 1311067471 301029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hap, v.2: Etymology: Derivation unknown. Its distribution from East Anglia and Lancashire to Scotland seems to point to Norse origin. [..] Now only Sc. and dial. [..] 2. To cover for warmth, as with extra clothing or bed-clothes; to wrap; to ā€˜tuck upā€™ (in bed). c1330 R. Mannyng Chron. Wace (Rolls) 9017, He gaf hym drynke poysoun, And happed hym warme, and bad hym slepe. < 1311067583 537791 :TanebGone!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb < 1311067740 673278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anagrams < 1311067740 871204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah, PAH < 1311070101 842271 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. JFK's brother-in-law's uncle was PM of the UK < 1311070166 400318 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harold Macmillan < 1311070412 902886 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311071736 300858 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311072583 214320 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311073415 116167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a big sign I can add to a wiki article that says something to the effect of "This article needs a complete sort-out" < 1311074497 198911 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there was this "not up to standards" thing < 1311074505 45594 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "might need to be cleaned up" or something like that < 1311075513 304191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Router stuff < 1311075683 462761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; comp.lang.c, someone had a (presumably) memory correction issue causing fread calls to segfault. His "fix": FILE *fp = fopen(...); FILE fback; memcpy(&fback, fp, sizeof(FILE)); /* ..code.. */ memcpy(fp, &fback, sizeof(FILE)); fread(...); -- "Now there is no segmentation fault, job done." < 1311075719 436830 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/correction/corruption/ < 1311077129 317894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ugh < 1311077237 198505 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311077280 953919 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In later posts it turned out to be Obama's fault that e had to "fix" it like that. < 1311077288 214995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311077294 444068 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTQ? < 1311077388 645953 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1311077408 530184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy guy on comp.lang.c fizzie's dealing with < 1311077458 392601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < 1311077482 848463 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311077536 966888 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311077626 250248 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311077783 925671 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna have lunch now, bye < 1311078502 751858 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078631 210212 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078631 582196 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311078631 782613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078710 193103 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078959 841899 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 `floor . (+)` 4 < 1311078961 252846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `.' < 1311078978 696367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a cool extension. < 1311078987 149474 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311079026 537843 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps slightly abusable, but... we're talking about a language that has an OverloadedStrings extension. < 1311079060 906472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 `(+) `ap` floor` 4 < 1311079077 370100 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested `'s for... uh, great win? actually, just for demonstration. < 1311079110 520957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> `pi` < 1311079111 697550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input ``' < 1311079130 876737 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1311079149 586698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so GHC is aware of types to some degree before it finished the parsing stage. < 1311079193 813626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how so? < 1311079214 396441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could also have a sophsticated error reporting system. < 1311079227 646078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nevermind. < 1311079232 96855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 `pi` 4 < 1311079233 416733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079236 192330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, as far as I can tell it bailed out because there is nothing in front of the ` < 1311079236 972869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a regular parse error. < 1311079253 699292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t `pi` < 1311079254 828376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input ``' < 1311079257 829055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pi < 1311079259 527186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1311079260 218686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079270 569060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1311079285 172339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi 3 4 < 1311079286 508023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079296 820297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah I have no idea. < 1311079304 728524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1311079316 121190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless (a -> b -> c) is an instance of Floating... < 1311079327 143176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, my guess is some weird result from partial evaluation... < 1311079348 950199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just a lambdabot thing where it reads one full expression and ignores trailing fluff? Certainly "pi 3 4" is not okay in ghci. < 1311079363 484164 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 3 `pi` 4.) < 1311079370 780124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1311079380 726295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi is stupid < 1311079382 108116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `is'Not in scope: `stupid' < 1311079387 617862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi "werijsdiufhushdfwer < 1311079388 861033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1311079389 163098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end o... < 1311079390 856528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi "werijsdiufhushdfwer" < 1311079392 127037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079397 209439 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311079402 991626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be what fizzie said < 1311079410 796875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is coirrational a thing? < 1311079420 233217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pi = 3 in show pi < 1311079421 645189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3" < 1311079424 324558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311079447 678432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = pi 3 4 in x < 1311079449 77983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079456 864767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311079458 402135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently works in nested expressions as well. < 1311079465 703259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a general bug in the interpreter. < 1311079472 450956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311079480 984847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi undefined < 1311079482 478351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079492 437478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 8 3 9 4 in x < 1311079493 562642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 < 1311079514 691490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x[C < 1311079515 847506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311079523 810024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only with constants perhaps < 1311079535 165688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x < 1311079536 542904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1311079539 613500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had a [C in there. < 1311079546 2069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1311079590 991842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just blindly evaluates the expression as though it's correctly formed and disregards the leftover stuff? < 1311079593 912354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1311079607 908509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it would produce a type error. < 1311079619 838673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x [C < 1311079621 197598 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311079622 910305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079625 255341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expected type a -> b -> c inferred type (Floating a) => a < 1311079626 729191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1311079628 119374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5[C] in x < 1311079629 551845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `C' < 1311079634 964492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1311079638 388269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5[C in x < 1311079639 552924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079639 753403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1311079667 244373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f < 1311079668 513363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1311079680 723226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pi [1..] < 1311079681 993389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.... < 1311079692 871200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it allows map f [1..] to work. < 1311079696 381724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fix f < 1311079703 197546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when technically f is not a function. < 1311079836 26824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix f < 1311079837 363032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1311079837 575593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1311079837 776266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1311079843 811731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fi < 1311079844 861246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1311079845 143597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fi' < 1311079845 989557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1311079848 249431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311079853 577911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix pi < 1311079854 939238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079861 493414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course) < 1311079865 226839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix pi < 1311079866 423369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1311079870 965511 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi < 1311079871 954052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079879 149864 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "> pi" < 1311079880 129385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "> pi" < 1311079946 539706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix fix < 1311079947 917609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> a < 1311079950 746065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be very deep in the interpreter. < 1311079951 733532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1311079963 83612 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStrLin "pi" < 1311079964 44469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `putStrLin' < 1311079972 796986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, no IO < 1311079973 36651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStrLn "pi" < 1311079973 931086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311079978 722273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1311079990 673596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can't evaluate IO < 1311079998 518939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311080012 736031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you saw, you just got an IO back < 1311080015 602194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> readFile "/etc/passwd" < 1311080017 12176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311080060 288955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (readFile <$>) < 1311080061 566244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f FilePath -> f (IO String) < 1311080068 237310 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'x' < 1311080069 248501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'x' < 1311080072 437551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (readFile <$>) < 1311080073 777369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1311080073 977517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1311080150 780824 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311080152 450500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (readFile =<<) < 1311080153 692911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO FilePath -> IO String < 1311080165 297731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (readFile =<<) < 1311080166 914796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311080194 177689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1311080258 705981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought IO was strict. < 1311080541 598214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, only when evaulated, like in a do block or such < 1311080544 124303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311080562 88744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't everything "strict when evaluated"? :P < 1311080573 394809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, hm good point < 1311080589 378552 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids, don't try to evaluate your parents < 1311080599 364496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1311080653 65711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t return < 1311080654 335670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => a -> m a < 1311080661 191035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> a < 1311080662 178294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1311080662 378882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1311080662 378992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception mapException :: (Exception e1, Exception e2) => (e1 -> e2) -> a -> a < 1311080672 172532 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapException < 1311080673 756857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mapException' < 1311080760 18060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> breakpoint 3 < 1311080761 332907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `breakpoint' < 1311080783 630006 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t inline < 1311080784 774777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `inline' < 1311080786 965510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311080812 563727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts have some cool functions. < 1311080828 508553 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lazy, and inline. < 1311080947 623269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (`fromMaybe` Nothing) 3 < 1311080951 961030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311080956 685164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (`fromMaybe` Just 5) 3 < 1311080958 476763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1311080992 705751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the laziness of one argument depends on another. < 1311081064 709413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (print 3 `par`) 4 < 1311081072 331208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (print 3 `par`) < 1311081076 792257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311081167 536753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :par is apparently not strict in the second argument < 1311081287 941923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t par < 1311081289 532348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> b < 1311081299 903991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311081301 628626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1311081345 29011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible for explicit strictness anyways. < 1311081366 630352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix pretty much tells you if it's strict or not < 1311081373 575883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does passing an undefined. < 1311081469 660350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1311081487 735743 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :par is an interesting concept, I might try to use it sometime. < 1311081503 26902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in the regular expression language I'm working on < 1311081513 916441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the signal processing library that I've got on the backburner. < 1311081553 68687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on large computations. < 1311081697 142446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another common use is to ensure any exceptions hidden within lazy fields of a data structure do not leak outside the scope of the exception handler, or to force evaluation of a data structure in one thread, before passing to another thread (preventing work moving to the wrong threads). < 1311081724 954593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. I would think that message passing among threads would send the data fully evaluated. < 1311081734 345159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it apparently does not. < 1311081789 868454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make passing infinite data structures impossible < 1311081830 990901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what history will make of the News International scandal that is going on at the moment < 1311081898 830907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unaware of it. < 1311081907 438541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't error perform a side-effect? < 1311081956 225236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's referentially transparent because it always returns bottom, but it still prints an error message while not being part of IO. < 1311082201 113684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (%) < 1311082202 484481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> Ratio a < 1311082213 574242 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (3%) < 1311082214 918210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Integral t) => t -> Ratio t < 1311082452 505204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, heh < 1311082462 37380 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1311082500 853488 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I being hehed at for? < 1311082504 537569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, I think I can define a pulse wave as (/2) . signum < 1311082592 842939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it won't allow me to vary the pulse width. < 1311082731 298108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, last previous line < 1311083198 41769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay so signum is completely equivalent to a square wave. < 1311083215 946554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when applied to a sinusoid, that is. < 1311083413 111070 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let boxcar a b x = fromEnum (a < x < b) in map (boxcar 2 10) [0..] < 1311083414 322076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1311083414 547731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `GHC.Classes.<' [infix 4] and `GHC... < 1311083443 157112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let boxcar a b x = fromEnum (a < x && x < b) in map (boxcar 2 10) [0..] < 1311083444 523386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1311083507 933678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rect = boxcar (-0.5) 0.5 < 1311083606 538035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually rect = boxcar (-0.5) 0.5 . sin < 1311083616 79881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the period form. < 1311084275 205941 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.137.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311084498 946924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, apparently C# has Perl's // operator < 1311084509 916395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ?? < 1311084638 646850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl calls it defined-or, while C# gives it the terrible name "Null coalescing operator" < 1311084662 144046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for some reason, the wikipedia page uses as its title. < 1311084731 894332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, at least C# does something right. < 1311085242 179007 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just call it the "default operator" or something. < 1311085247 268897 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :More obvious than "defined-or" < 1311085254 32475 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... well... C#'s name for it. < 1311085384 344669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, given the way Perl's boolean operators work, defined-or makes sense. < 1311085396 953630 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :default-to? < 1311085405 812623 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean by "obvious" < 1311085507 615901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's basically the same thing as Perl's or, except it applies defined() to the first argument for the purposes of testing to see if it's true. < 1311085517 820808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to defined(x) : x : y < 1311085519 939746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1311085560 377413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas or is: x ? x : y < 1311085634 930720 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311085681 138281 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyways, it's something Java needs badly. < 1311085695 877004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you spend far too much time testing for nulls. < 1311085814 263532 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better if java didn't have nulls. < 1311085837 568122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be terrible without a workaround. < 1311085854 99155 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, given some kind of option types. < 1311085877 401961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# has type? which is short for Nullable < 1311085899 670213 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it uses to allow value-types (aka structs, int, bool, etc) to be assigned to null. < 1311085924 627500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could change it so that the ? is required for all types to be nullable. < 1311085943 630580 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C# nullable is far better than nothing < 1311085956 213376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then what is an unitialized variable of type A? < 1311085976 489487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... ? is part of the sentence, not the type name :P < 1311085978 580993 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik Sing# (an extension to C#) has type! which always guarantees that type cannot contain null. < 1311086850 275453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently this motto has been very much discussed in the Perl community, and eventually extended to Thereā€™s more than one way to do it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad thing either (TIMTOWTDIBSCINABTE, pronounced ā€œTim Toady Bicarbonateā€). < 1311086858 856434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to remove this sentence from Wikipedia. < 1311086920 931700 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :citation needed! < 1311086980 794530 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one < 1311086990 81656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really think it's notable. < 1311086996 106525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that's such a terrible acronym. < 1311087008 314892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slogan. Why would anyone ever say that. < 1311087039 128475 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there should not be the word "but" because these statements are not in contradiction with one another. < 1311087090 234065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is in fact what the word 'but' is there for. < 1311087118 252514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To clarify that some secondary statement that could be concluded from the first is not, in fact, true. < 1311087264 316979 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311087666 288216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Perl 6 article: Also, the , (comma) operator is now a list constructor, so enclosing parentheses are no longer required around lists. < 1311087675 210894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure that was always the case. < 1311087689 672286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enclosing parentheses were required due to precedence. < 1311088148 416174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a Rubyist it seems a bit controversial to me, as this looks like a multiple inheritance scheme..." < 1311088164 254647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it sounds like he's talking about his religion. < 1311088172 314889 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should never read Wikipedia talk pages in my free time. < 1311088185 191794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *is* talking about his religion. < 1311088280 732873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds crazy to me, it's totally consistent with the Perl attitude towards authority. < 1311088286 392814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Perl attitude towards authority? < 1311088307 425525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these people even talking about. Do they realize they are talking about programming languages? < 1311088423 300500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311088441 741988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know that programming languages had states of mind associated with them. I was pretty sure they were a means to describe the solution to a problem. < 1311088491 351621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Perl code have some kind of anti-establishment connotation that I haven't been picking up on this entire time I've been writing it? < 1311088494 444927 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is stupid. < 1311088499 824568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never read talk pages again. < 1311088628 375868 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311092007 482822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311092839 255310 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311093072 493923 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an integer division operator in Haskell> < 1311093112 857086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t div < 1311093114 526503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093117 39351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311093150 108373 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1311093742 965848 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t quot < 1311093745 138065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093748 497551 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mod < 1311093749 362810 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t rem < 1311093749 779680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093750 484746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093754 832027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1311093766 490018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t [divMod, quotRem] < 1311093767 270811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => [a -> a -> (a, a)] < 1311093776 249518 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t [div, mod, quot, rem] < 1311093777 410259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => [a -> a -> a] < 1311094048 510079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: could you talk me out of something? < 1311094055 261686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7 `quot` 3 < 1311094056 651206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311094058 509679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about creating an esolang that was completely identical to another esolang < 1311094070 832823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, quot/div and mod/rem only differ when negative numbers are involved. < 1311094074 681697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a parody of bad BF derivatives < 1311094075 663177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, expand. < 1311094080 580637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's OK. < 1311094090 139766 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like I hate your brainfuck derivative I really do? < 1311094090 890279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps just create an esolang that's identical to brainfuck < 1311094095 839797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am the official Sanctioner of Esolangs. I say so.) < 1311094096 926498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's already been done? < 1311094123 733089 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/I_hate_your_bf-derivative_really_I_do < 1311094124 672803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I meant with + being increase, - being decrease, etc < 1311094128 38061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the same as BF < 1311094143 918653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically Ihybrid. < 1311094150 876128 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1311094155 61231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally identical? < 1311094160 136425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve. < 1311094188 615099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Ihybrid is a crappy serious esolang. < 1311094191 43879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck < 1311094194 980973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a capital B < 1311094205 133398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that name isn't currently taken < 1311094232 561739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even BrainFuck < 1311094292 223818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I stopped watching that Murdoch hearing because it was boring. < 1311094305 424738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then someone attacked Rupert Murdoch with a cream pie. < 1311094314 443207 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1311094395 415875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed it too, I got here a few seconds after it happens < 1311094398 215222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then missed the replay as well < 1311094403 561142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no doubt it'll be all over the Internet by now < 1311094411 711827 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14209268 < 1311094427 581634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/JonnieMarbles < 1311094429 91527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth wondering how the assailant managed to break into the House of Commons in the first place < 1311094442 392123 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he got in the easy way < 1311094447 424888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much as I disapprove of it, I can't fault his Twitter style. < 1311094451 180337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, I can tell that that link's broken without even reading it < 1311094456 845121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that anchor doesn't exist on the Twitter homepage < 1311094471 201721 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094489 121234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I... copied and pasted it. < 1311094502 481239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Twitter themselves use broken links < 1311094510 412331 :comex_!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094513 533506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they do is, all links to Twitter actually go to the homepage, then it AJAXes the actual content < 1311094519 518875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good for you. Noƶne cares. < 1311094531 744320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people without JS in their primary browser care < 1311094560 965906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tiny minority, yes. < 1311094597 863231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tiny minority who seem to take great pride in disabling browser functionality and telling everyone loudly that they have done so, yes. < 1311094659 35606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a negative functionality, in that it makes websites more annoying < 1311094666 250764 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the internet without js is like using a car without tyres < 1311094686 195394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: the worst I saw was a page that tried to set cookies when you move your mouse < 1311094691 343102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because I prompt on those < 1311094704 847002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some pretty stupid things done even with default browser settings < 1311094708 307278 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop browsing midget porn < 1311094725 125991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, most of us get by fine without them. < 1311094743 79851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to turn off JS, don't bring it up when we send you links that need JS to work. < 1311094754 842387 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be true, Phantom_Hoover, but personally i couldn't bear a life without those wonderful little humans < 1311094758 639925 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311094758 640016 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311094760 477675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, s/send you/give/ < 1311094834 164815 :Kariya-jin!~user@41-139-181-238.safaricombusiness.co.ke JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094852 74150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, what Twitter does with the #! thing breaks standard browser functionality too < 1311094867 532852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, funnily enough, it works for most people. < 1311094873 3526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's got middle-click working yet; most sites that do #! stuff don't work with that < 1311094890 912622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't like the page to have to load twice every time I visit it < 1311094902 357897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for you. Keep it to yourself. < 1311095117 728375 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.221.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311095548 382164 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebAway < 1311096339 174113 :Kariya-jin!~user@41-139-181-238.safaricombusiness.co.ke PART :#esoteric < 1311097596 27692 :TanebAway!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb < 1311097684 487852 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ill < 1311098041 861715 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311098061 247107 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311098437 219605 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? C/Intercal: I, lilac, ret niche. < 1311098476 258287 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work as well when half the palindrome is gibberish :) < 1311098485 832668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311098489 23915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are all real words! < 1311098504 688159 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's nonsense < 1311098649 204656 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (++) reverse "But yeah, it's nonsense" < 1311098651 590258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "But yeah, it's nonsenseesnesnon s'ti ,haey tuB" < 1311098658 611641 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can palindrome too :D < 1311098740 298117 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pal, Fractran art? Car flap. < 1311099227 93141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311099327 578816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311099420 520062 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.243.18 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311099480 764954 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311100253 793687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oi. < 1311100377 207769 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311100402 200506 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311100496 323924 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on my Numberwang Hello World < 1311100745 558502 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on something delightfully retarded. < 1311100762 378937 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Numberwang Hello World? < 1311100770 226307 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Christmas present? < 1311100786 49650 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A polititian? < 1311100798 428927 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those multi-dimensional numbers I was talking about the other day < 1311100803 681363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that was a deliberate typo. < 1311100812 384086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, define "multi-dimensional". < 1311100824 119215 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :consisting of more than one dimension < 1311100847 882366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like the complex numbers? < 1311100853 739616 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Vectors? < 1311100892 551809 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well what I realized was that all the named numbers are one dimensional: one,two,three,four,five,six,seven,eight,nine,ten, etc < 1311100901 489893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean complexes. < 1311100903 609716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or vectors. < 1311100913 666679 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I remember! < 1311100914 917762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more towards the vectors idea < 1311100922 9484 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving names to vectors! < 1311100924 403354 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too stupid to do anything with complex numbers < 1311100926 824056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexes == vectors. < 1311100930 475277 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, lala = (7,3) < 1311100936 96947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just with a different definition of *. < 1311100945 630050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, complexes == 2-vectors. < 1311100955 355576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the most mathematically-challenged here < 1311100992 663005 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. 2 is enough < 1311101014 175174 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 2 would be making life difficult on myself. < 1311101053 640010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, [a, b] + [c, d] = [a+c, b+d]; [a, b] * [c, d] = [a*c - b*d, a*d + b*c]. < 1311101059 612919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all there is to complexes. < 1311101077 356770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is just a consequence. < 1311101099 989508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, I've almost certainly missed something fairly minor, but those are the important bits.) < 1311101260 481144 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Numberwang Hello World works perfectly... for three operations < 1311101561 841198 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is sort of what i'm doing: http://hpaste.org/49235 < 1311101564 492735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, presumably you're trying to nullify the effect of the Numberwang operator? < 1311101575 504107 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bit's fine < 1311101585 835321 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311101596 733057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan worked out the safest way to do that < 1311101610 276008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it, out of curiosity? < 1311101642 238507 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the step counter mod 9 is 0 < 1311101659 871498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't call any additional numberwangs, and doesn't use gotos < 1311101677 876143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so you just pad. < 1311101688 956337 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1311101708 4056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, why do you seem to have two contradictory definitions of +? < 1311101732 225085 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im exploring what it means to add two of those things together < 1311101769 405492 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, apparently when I have a cold, I love Kaiser Cheifs < 1311101822 472984 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when i started doing this the theory was that you could have a unique word for a horizontal 2 instead of a vertical 2 < 1311101841 634573 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, uh.. that is.. when i started actually mapping it out < 1311101865 991347 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first idea was to give a unique written name to things of the form [x][y] instead of just [x] < 1311101930 168785 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and next i realized that gave a width x height result < 1311101971 343200 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then later I started to realize you start ending up with non-rectangular objects more like bargraphs < 1311101996 808180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you're going to end up with arbitrary shapes. < 1311102015 254343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, they have to be connected. < 1311102046 343684 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1311102062 981959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind of crap doesn't have to mean much for me < 1311102075 909203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not quite arbitrary. < 1311102087 393934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are conditions, but they're not terribly interesting ones. < 1311102089 178572 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres probably some unspoken hypothesis i'm working towards < 1311102132 958527 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need someone who's brilliant at maths but has not yet learnt the limits of the possible < 1311102153 427828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt the limits of the possible, then I forgot what they were. < 1311102165 103699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not terribly interesting, and they're generally there for a reason < 1311102223 642856 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should discriminate between rectangular and non-rectangular shapes < 1311102250 755210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in seriousness, mathematicians have tried most generalisations you can think of. < 1311102307 320023 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is numberwang now stable? < 1311102309 447563 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The addition and multiplication rules you gave are also just consequences of the single i^2 = -1 after you write them as (a+bi). < 1311102313 163649 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course they have. Generalisation is an easy way to do interesting mathematics. < 1311102315 814474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, sure. < 1311102332 984523 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate the power of generalization :> < 1311102339 843311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah, and generally the ones that haven't been tried aren't very interesting. < 1311102344 339538 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe i don't < 1311102366 844109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Numbrewang is theortically sable < 1311102383 125399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you can extrapolate relativistic (?) physics to more than 1 time dimension, but the equations cease to be solvable. < 1311102441 962208 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am into game design in a big way. But theres lots of things I encounter which make game-dev seem boring. < 1311102460 387592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, like display programming... < 1311102465 259361 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311102476 181634 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, is there any significance of the step number? the specification does not mention the use of it. < 1311102484 941132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does... < 1311102486 203502 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of display there is that disparity between internal logic and representation of that logic < 1311102517 241961 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At each step, the digital root of the sum of the current command, its position in the program, and *the step number* is calculated. The result modulo four is taken, and the appropriate instruction is ran < 1311102521 42269 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the graphics and sounds in a game can just be swapped around meaninglessly. Just like you can replace the pieces on a chessboard. < 1311102528 724402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of display there is the fact that it's annoyingly fiddly to set up. < 1311102558 626837 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you two should team up and make a games console? < 1311102587 517539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bob of Bob's Game is trying to make something called the nD < 1311102590 45126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware design? Ahahahahahahahahahaha. < 1311102592 989644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahahahaha. < 1311102597 483191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. Ha. Ha. < 1311102598 411061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311102617 835647 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a bit crazy though < 1311102651 104366 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1311102660 395311 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ugh, so at the each step digital-root(command) is added to the step number, right? < 1311102661 925071 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when was Beyonce the world's number one superstar? < 1311102666 513839 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not really interested in hardware < 1311102696 830792 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to implement numberwang in my esotope and stucked at that part. < 1311102710 72860 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: No, the command, the step number, and the index of the command are added up, and the digital root of that (mod 4) is the actual command < 1311102717 873872 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so with games, I don't like the idea of a game's design imposing the limits of perfect play. < 1311102758 354336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see games where there is no such thing as perfect play. < 1311102769 789544 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress? < 1311102814 331116 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more discerte a game becomes it seems the more likely that a perfect play scenario exists < 1311102820 679051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^discrete < 1311102822 675092 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is that something like this: for(step=idx=0; idx The more discerte a game becomes it seems the more likely that a perfect play scenario exists < 1311102870 909250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no? < 1311102879 240111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for it, lifthrasiir < 1311102895 947789 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry someones stomping in the hall.. i can't hear myself think < 1311102926 747946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-discrete games tend to accumulate errors, while discrete ones don't, so they are less obviously deterministic. < 1311102933 24051 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, itidus, you want a sandbox? < 1311102973 716591 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in a sandbox game < 1311102974 418971 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a person to ever be able to get closure in a game, that they are the best that is possible < 1311102992 294796 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ah, one more question: eight commands in the instruction 3 do not affect the step number, right? < 1311102999 831578 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that < 1311103001 685199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, suggest Minecrā€” wait, that's too open-ended for you, probably. < 1311103004 535715 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do, lifthrasiir < 1311103020 114398 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok forget the discrete comment.. that was just being dumb of me as usal < 1311103040 626515 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want people to even be able to imagine being perfect at the game < 1311103041 857610 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, then the step number increases by 8 after the instruction 3? < 1311103062 101370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It increments after every instruction, including the 3 and the ones in the 3 < 1311103077 817567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in the case of Chess and Go, although they can't compute perfect play, they can imagine it with sufficient computing power. < 1311103080 113295 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact, 8 + alpha, right. < 1311103087 78915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1311103128 924069 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And although the sufficient computing power is supposed to not exist, they can still imagine it existing < 1311103140 931511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like in the case of Chess and Go, although they can't compute perfect play, they can imagine it with sufficient computing power. < 1311103157 140252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that in Go computers are barely able to compete. < 1311103186 72540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But theoretically, there are only a finite number of possible games of Go < 1311103206 7645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are clearly better at playing go than devising computers to play go :D < 1311103208 914878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes, it's just got significantly search space than chess. < 1311103217 136934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, significantly greater. < 1311103228 613415 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ugh, wait, then what about the command's position in the program? < 1311103260 430365 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's been a while since I played Go < 1311103269 941695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search space is, of course, what makes AIs a lot less reliable in continuous than discrete games. < 1311103277 278075 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say the command at the position 42 invoked the instruction 3. now what are the positions of 12! and consequent commands? < 1311103285 930633 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess AI has turned out to be *much* less interesting than people would've liked. < 1311103297 59328 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 through 7, I think < 1311103299 565659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perfect play is clearly possible in, say, missile defence. < 1311103311 46705 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of being something that'll produce an intelligent, thinking computer, it's created a very fast, stupid computer with well-designed heuristics. < 1311103313 504213 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was done last year in Draughts < 1311103335 133153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was done in draughts quite some time before that. < 1311103348 9545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perfect play is *possible* in most games. < 1311103348 413867 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom: do you mean that a computer using the neural network approach to solving chess will fail just as badly? < 1311103354 426518 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just ridiculously unfeasible. :) < 1311103362 284111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, OK, easy. < 1311103366 524384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, neural... what? < 1311103408 11255 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, surely they have tried applying artificial neural nets towards emulating the mind of a chess grand master to the extent such things are possible < 1311103414 265107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahaha. < 1311103416 4247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311103418 557386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't. < 1311103422 407246 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1311103427 127218 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311103429 20149 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too expensive < 1311103433 589063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not enough point < 1311103434 650911 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311103436 897225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I should stop the ahahahahahahaha thing, it's probably ridiculously annoying. < 1311103449 239184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When they can already defeat Gary Karsparov or whoever < 1311103463 211580 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: so they don't "really" want to solve it :D < 1311103485 555157 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, because the stupid algorithms are already better than they need < 1311103499 982798 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a toy to promote IBM etc :P < 1311103517 158662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am wondering if such things would actually make any difference you see < 1311103525 583881 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points itidus20 towards http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ < 1311103543 48121 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is chess just as unsolvable with ANN as without < 1311103570 735257 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To solve chess would require a computer larger than the observable universe < 1311103585 81895 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard that < 1311103594 309036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott__: could you talk me out of something? < 1311103594 795742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311103595 459591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1311103601 828712 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well.. < 1311103618 364568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you logreading, or do you want me to repeat context? < 1311103627 527894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice < 1311103629 155499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter that is < 1311103641 516930 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: but that would imply no breakthroughs probably < 1311103649 666565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakthroughs are always unanticipated. < 1311103655 387750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, it was designing an esolang identical to an existing esolang < 1311103662 549268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as BF with none of the commands changed < 1311103671 397118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck, as that name isn't currently taken < 1311103676 110084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not even syntactically? < 1311103676 309149 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good statement though about the universe < 1311103680 747099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope < 1311103691 290378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i approve wholeheartedly < 1311103707 338967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311103710 142879 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311103779 846544 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: thanks. nice link. < 1311103789 465689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1311103836 621234 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so, gaming can be about improvement, and being the best. trouble here is that best is relative. < 1311103857 492861 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you be the best by keeping everyone else down and you're still the best < 1311103857 747113 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311103861 514495 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :514) It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311103865 48631 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: in order to get out of the instruction 3, all generated commands have to be executed or the instruction 2 has to be invoked. am i missing anything? < 1311103877 388070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when'd he say that? < 1311103881 374699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was funny? < 1311103887 840321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the 2 keeps it in the 3 < 1311103895 262057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2s don't escape 3s < 1311103901 307885 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:40 tunes time < 1311103911 622143 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, < 1311103915 663435 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which corresponds to no timezone known to mankind) < 1311103935 579630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311103945 674346 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if the instruction 3 invoked the instruction 3 in the middle, then commands have to be terminated twice (or possibly more)? < 1311103948 521019 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, you want context now? < 1311103966 752749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: yes < 1311103968 651489 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 514 < 1311103969 983834 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ā€‹*poof* < 1311103981 91416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that was moderately funny on its own. < 1311103988 65632 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, right now i tried to categorize the behavior of the instruction 3 for possible step numbers. < 1311104025 539927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it was funny :P < 1311104044 780516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311104045 913483 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :514) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311104050 296376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: better? < 1311104195 965211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was better originally :-P < 1311104196 319740 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :draws are not possible in arimaa eh < 1311104202 806102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I note that the [...]s are unneeded there < 1311104203 6806 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1311104208 769392 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats always good < 1311104209 695573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to cut it out when time passing matters < 1311104222 478691 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's just that both people said things in between < 1311104240 552480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1311104245 437982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no first move advantage and no draws? how can it be so. :o < 1311104261 602639 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-222-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311104267 506245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, note that it is patented. < 1311104273 957076 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311104280 630245 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311104284 207935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents < 1311104343 384767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i love the software license < 1311104345 687199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so stupid < 1311104373 998606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is it, again? < 1311104378 12821 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not looking to make boardgames though. I am focused on the abstract word game. < 1311104386 869106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i forget exactly < 1311104403 587830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here it is: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/license/ < 1311104536 900503 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it is solvable I don't know how "no first move advantage and no draws" could be possible < 1311104547 842156 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what intruiges me < 1311104567 437649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104568 835620 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :515) Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104572 531296 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311104574 851540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 515 < 1311104576 194224 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ā€‹*poof* < 1311104585 399683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104586 640048 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :515) Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104602 510105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"End game tables are not useful since games can end with all pieces on the board. " < 1311104610 134716 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm fascinating < 1311104645 977528 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it could have a _second_ move advantage, you know :P < 1311104665 117855 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311104671 491394 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thinking < 1311104678 533499 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like those game variations where the second player is allowed to switch places on eir first move < 1311104688 376397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Project which are non-commercial require obtaining a written authorization." < 1311104705 582227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this licence is ridiculous. < 1311104716 274315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:07: With a name like BeFuck, the only difference SHOULD be a terrible C++ API and fanatic devoted followers. < 1311104722 415491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Was BeOS's API that bad? < 1311104731 70383 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was C++, that's all I know :P < 1311104732 782025 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't intend to make an arimaa.. simply to steal a few of their concepts for use in realtime arcade games < 1311104735 494451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C++ pretty much implies terrible. < 1311104758 397030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:40:16: By "Knuth-style" I mean things such as: Table of contents, index, named chunks (which can be included in others), pretty printing, print out (rather than HTML), etc. Partially also the input format, but mostly I refer to the output presentation and how they work in general. < 1311104758 596422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:41:12: zzo38: oh. i don't know. maybe some of that if you also use haddock. istr it does not support reordering things though (and haskell doesn't really need that) < 1311104772 683741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What oerjan said; Haskell doesn't need the crutches that other languages do to support literate programming < 1311104822 972496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:06:06: what is facentes < 1311104827 51813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's what you poop, HTH < 1311104838 991721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THANKS < 1311104866 747599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok uh.. suppose you compare the idea of a puzzle in an adventure game to that of solving a boardgame. well an arimaa-like puzzle might be less frustrating < 1311104884 921259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311104886 242115 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :516) That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311104894 770694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, have you looked at Minecraft, actually? < 1311104906 791016 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to buy it but i'm broke < 1311104917 200180 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to buy it, so I did. < 1311104928 687669 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i might bore of it also < 1311104931 367549 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I don't need to pay for a school trip to Rome < 1311104952 874358 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is good news, that has came about from bad news < 1311105001 875506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, it is quite simple to pirate. < 1311105006 499870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:54:11: http://i.imgur.com/w7cns.jpg This was the Yahoo! News pictures page. Today. < 1311105007 131949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also i assume knuth's literate programming was originally for pascal, which has stupidly stringent ordering requirements (admittedly to get trivial one-pass compilation) < 1311105009 168855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER ONE?!!!!?! < 1311105011 927550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311105013 935706 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wirth's < 1311105016 263585 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shees < 1311105017 788748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1311105026 708979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um wirth invented literate programming? < 1311105029 435611 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311105038 766669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, knuth did < 1311105041 790093 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er wait i'm confusing myself < 1311105045 673031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311105049 766453 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is there anyplace I can see a list of all the hackego quotes < 1311105067 455404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _thought_ wirth, my subconscious must have corrected it, and this time it was right :P < 1311105091 284791 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguity of ***th < 1311105102 428704 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my regex skills aren't up to speed though < 1311105118 521140 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a-z){3}th < 1311105122 366845 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I got confused because I couldn;t think of a swear word with that pattern? < 1311105125 843206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: [a-z] < 1311105128 339352 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...th < 1311105138 188993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, is there anyplace I can see a list of all the hackego quotes < 1311105141 795282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1311105143 133308 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32205 < 1311105148 898454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an immutable snapshot < 1311105149 919639 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a-z]{3}th < 1311105150 705621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also go to < 1311105151 631525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url quotes < 1311105152 991566 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes < 1311105153 825131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that lacks quote numbers < 1311105157 609925 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handy < 1311105167 797087 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: nah it's just that my mind graph has a pascal -> wirth edge, and i knew (knuth's) WEB was in pascal, so somehow the wires got crossed < 1311105176 16500 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311105191 964217 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pascal reinforced the confusion < 1311105195 699217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311105217 879506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the wire crossing problem? < 1311105290 992344 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oerjan confusion problem? < 1311105306 488476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: whoosh < 1311105323 476886 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that there is value in languages which have hollow meaningless keywords < 1311105334 86546 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like English. < 1311105415 971315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all languages < 1311105432 244660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a human probably can't design a program in hex < 1311105437 557949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the English Language Turing-Complete? < 1311105446 781576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they can implement it in hex but i doubt they can design it in hex < 1311105493 457534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. is a human body turing complete :> < 1311105496 896210 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'd say it's either obviously turing-complete, or too vague to be used for computation... < 1311105507 366845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: obviously not < 1311105509 310002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have only finite memory < 1311105515 994780 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, allowing for imperatives, yes. < 1311105519 427796 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1311105528 282909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you need imperatives? < 1311105541 927287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A list starting with 9 and followed by itself, with each element incremented by one." < 1311105550 284649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's map succ (repeat 9) < 1311105554 709090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde declarative english < 1311105569 14924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but imperatives are the most direct way to do it. < 1311105629 935031 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-189-129.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311105630 712355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only if you consider imperative languages more obvious than functional ones < 1311105663 440235 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think enough thought is given to how humans percieve a language(in common programming) so much as how the language compiles < 1311105693 48088 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling back on a basic set of keywords to do everything < 1311105702 504440 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never escape the friggen keywords < 1311105717 702328 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: if you think you have some Big New Idea and you're not an expert, it's probably been done. < 1311105728 494703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no keywords in Scheme < 1311105741 828179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless you consider the special forms keywords. < 1311105747 58839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can rebind them < 1311105748 833240 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit english has words like "is" < 1311105752 304769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((lambda 9)) lambda) => 9 < 1311105758 441713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not keywords by any stretch of the imagination < 1311105775 587886 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you","I","is" etc.. could be english keywords < 1311105785 722263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((lambda (lambda (x y) y)) (x (lambda () 9))) (lambda (x) x)) => < 1311105791 27566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that function being x) < 1311105802 101399 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-222-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311105823 310862 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the english words tend to be controlled by general grammars.. such that "you" and "I" are pronouns. < 1311105846 690118 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, uh.. humm < 1311105986 362459 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: basically afaik there have been attempts to make programming languages looking like english and they've all been crap < 1311106020 730469 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL and Applescript are the two i know about < 1311106073 300907 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on thinking about it, by separating reserved words from created words you often know whether an identifier is safe to use < 1311106091 367238 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a mess if you had to consult a dictionary each time you thought up an identifier < 1311106113 740688 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the implementation was written by someone with a different dictionary... < 1311106129 443799 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, the complete OED that costs Ā£750 and can kill people < 1311106136 547439 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh i don't mean english as such < 1311106139 536231 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just words < 1311106146 401617 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, do you want the OED? < 1311106153 403138 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its easily obtainable now :P < 1311106162 136691 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hardback? < 1311106165 515977 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311106182 656417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i don't think you can kill people with a digital version. well maybe. < 1311106240 615091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently when they released the sofrware one.. they used something called securom... and apparently if you replace that file with one called swhx its freely usable < 1311106258 198734 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not legally of course < 1311106304 473006 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres torrents out there demonstrating this < 1311106316 718778 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very odd < 1311106591 262875 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311106689 894422 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe it's just a lambdabot thing where it reads one full expression and ignores trailing fluff? Certainly "pi 3 4" is not okay in ghci. < 1311106690 717611 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-189-129.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311106698 201286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is an actual instance. < 1311106707 218334 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin + cos) 0 < 1311106708 722108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1311106716 589380 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin + cos + 1) 0 < 1311106717 930760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.0 < 1311106745 702550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known in math as "pointwise" arithmetic < 1311106790 786900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : probably not legally of course < 1311106793 311327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't say? < 1311106865 305303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 2 < 1311106866 361417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (id + 2 * id + 5) 3 < 1311106866 559879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1311106867 561224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1311106877 979482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, is it legal in the UK to crack the DRM on a legitimate copy of something you bought? < 1311106884 118130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is, but I'm not sure < 1311106887 935724 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311106888 210662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's illegal in the US) < 1311106899 621832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid DMCA) < 1311106937 633294 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311107093 175057 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it's annoying that CakeProphet isn't here so i can correct his haskell misconceptions :P < 1311107129 910185 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mystery of the dictionary is the way each entry just contains words. < 1311107155 656015 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a bootstrapping problem... < 1311107164 906801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311107255 703652 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311107279 580599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for a visit to wiki < 1311107281 754389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness is not a property of types, but of functions. although some data constructors can be strict functions (if declared with !) < 1311107284 825150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311107285 858017 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107300 159407 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if having fields declared with ! < 1311107324 856568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit Vorpal isn't here either :( < 1311107340 270522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am here ! < 1311107351 202299 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.78.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107360 166091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ? < 1311107363 36250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1311107364 211716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1311107365 296286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you weren't involved in the conversation i am logreading < 1311107372 141652 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1311107387 953123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm preoccupied though < 1311107407 799440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was just commenting on your strictness comment < 1311107479 70294 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The oldest known dictionaries were Akkadian empire cuneiform tablets with bilingual Sumerian–Akkadian wordlists, discovered in Ebla (modern Syria) and dated roughly 2300 BCE." I assume they also had the bootstrapping problem < 1311107523 746626 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bilingual is another side of it.. far more useful < 1311107552 815619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1311107564 171458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok CakeProphet's haskell misconceptions are becoming too much for me, i'll skip the rest of that log discussion < 1311107659 919272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" no first move advantage and no draws? how can it be so. :o" <<< you can easily remove draws from any game, and i don't think this has anything to do with first move advantages < 1311107727 907055 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107733 219770 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck < 1311107761 282829 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need wiki disambiguation then < 1311107770 396553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311107777 647650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang needs more disambiguation < 1311107786 702061 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not have been completely strict about those terms on the arimaa page.. im probably taking "no first move advantage" too literally < 1311107809 375413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :realising the need for disambig just made the idea seem even better < 1311107862 114479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" But theoretically, there are only a finite number of possible games of Go" <<< depends on endgame rules, i think some of them might let you have an uncountable number of games? < 1311108113 622310 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311108210 262426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" yes but you weren't involved in the conversation i am logreading whew" <<< well THANKS :| < 1311108346 112920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no first move advantage is always relative, since mathematically it's rather meaningless < 1311108390 499849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means that when humans play the game, they don't find starting particularly useful < 1311108428 196785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: depends on the ko rule, not the engame rules < 1311108437 254499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm sorry i meant the ko rule < 1311108445 300751 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is an endgame rule < 1311108450 446157 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i just watched the arimaa tutorial. interesting game. < 1311108490 642316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically, rules for scoring when the players can't agree who won < 1311108491 494498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was present when someone mentioned porn in the House of Commons < 1311108494 962500 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On National Television < 1311108499 764953 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all go rules forbid repeated positions? < 1311108513 652718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: yes, but they differ in the timeframe they forbid them in < 1311108517 800870 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311108523 593957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :superko forbids any sort of repetition over the lifetime of the game < 1311108532 723386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but simple ko disallows only undoing the opponent's last move < 1311108533 665023 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right, in any case what i meant was i certainly didn't meant that < 1311108543 893169 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether the ban on repeated positions in chess is even taken into account until the endgame < 1311108557 661392 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311108562 199183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some variants which disallow triple KO too (basically, where each player repeatedly undoes the opponent's last-but-3 move) < 1311108572 539528 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it is obvious that there IS a first player advantage in arimaa in the sense that the first player has a winning strategy, we just don't know it < 1311108575 875354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was present when someone mentioned porn in the House of Commons < 1311108576 73702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : On National Television < 1311108576 927639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1311108584 625331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what were you doing in the house of commons? < 1311108597 493092 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311108597 693661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Zwaarddijk: yes, but they differ in the timeframe they forbid them in" <<< what do you mean? < 1311108603 94806 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you explain < 1311108610 293636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a member of one of the two organisations allowed to debat there < 1311108627 741215 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*debate < 1311108631 306587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, present as in actually there < 1311108636 704068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's secretly the Queen. < 1311108642 579841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was trying to deliberately misinterpret, but I think I failed < 1311108642 996941 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" but simple ko disallows only undoing the opponent's last move" <<< this was what i meant, then could a game theoretically go on forever? < 1311108649 369479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, which house of commons? < 1311108652 249581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] whew" <<< well THANKS :| <-- that was on response to noticing Vorpal was actually present duh :( < 1311108654 757326 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in London < 1311108671 491690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, it even happens sometimes (triple KO, when each player undoes the opponent's last-but-third move, and doing anything else would give a major disadvantage) < 1311108674 566218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311108676 765509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, you're in that youth whatsit that doesn't matter, right? < 1311108677 245902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did he say this < 1311108680 577721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, last-but-2 < 1311108690 931908 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, PH < 1311108692 439979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did you see someone attack Rupert Murdoch? < 1311108695 984416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his wife retaliate? < 1311108697 855991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you miss it? < 1311108706 497755 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left before that happened < 1311108709 914008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that wasn't even in the House of Commons, was it? < 1311108711 752104 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: alright. then just add some possible move in the middle and you'll have uncountably many games. < 1311108721 425436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: indeed < 1311108723 316513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You may have been there years ago, but were you there TODAY??? < 1311108723 733408 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough, go is a second player win < 1311108725 990018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--ais < 1311108726 823794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was in the same building < 1311108727 22271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311108730 373676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's proven? < 1311108731 207443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the same room < 1311108731 540505 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :winning strategy for second player < 1311108734 981301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1311108736 176242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is normally used < 1311108740 634835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: lol < 1311108742 564149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one of the committee rooms < 1311108752 561591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1311108755 20710 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm just telling you because i like you < 1311108759 139740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1311108762 318996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not where they'd let a random teenager who doesn't matter. < 1311108765 386202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is the riemann hypothesis true < 1311108771 906773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course it is < 1311108775 162684 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311108777 273491 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311108782 403009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, aaron swartz charged with data theft? < 1311108787 612522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mythbusters said so < 1311108788 562817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is the continuum hypothesis true? < 1311108831 194674 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder whether the ban on repeated positions in chess is even taken into account until the endgame <-- well insofar as it only being during the endgame that you're likely to not have irreversible moves (e.g. captures, pawn movements) < 1311108847 412760 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: independent from axioms. yeah it's true. < 1311108850 667055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not "theft" of data he got from people < 1311108866 343289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :liberating academic papers, it seems < 1311108876 125067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is also first player win < 1311108885 828965 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108901 738477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, he didn't even do anything wrong < 1311108906 643586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just downloaded more articles than they wanted < 1311108913 349897 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And sex? < 1311108933 688577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote interestingly enough, go is a second player win chess is also first player win tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108935 91714 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :517) interestingly enough, go is a second player win chess is also first player win tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108950 417018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looks like he also broke into a cabinet or something. < 1311108963 244183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's not what he's being charged with. < 1311108969 902373 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i have to think about this < 1311108988 287556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I kind of picture MIT as the paramount of Technology and that includes some aspects of security. I am disappoint about lax NAC." < 1311108992 784316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT: HEIGHT OF SECURITY < 1311108998 618904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why no pranks ever happen there, ever < 1311109001 833104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he did do anything wrong, he didn't have access to even a single article legitimately < 1311109003 415995 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT: TIM BACKWARDS < 1311109015 355830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he got the access by breaking into the cupboard containing a network switch at MIT < 1311109025 516642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wasn't an MITian at the time < 1311109034 916670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then piggybacked on their access < 1311109038 989767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: firstly, OK, s/do anything wrong/do anything illegal/ < 1311109041 907331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both MIT and JSTOR trying to stop him < 1311109055 923087 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ygolonhcet etutitsni fo stessuhcassam < 1311109056 515576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: JSTOR asked the government not to prosecute, it seems < 1311109059 569035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my source may be biased < 1311109061 531343 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" MIT: TIM BACKWARDS" <<< the palindromist strikes again < 1311109067 174388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, vandalising a network switch cabinet is probably wrong even if you agree with everything else he did < 1311109075 946761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was the switch cabinet damaged? < 1311109093 848589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, "vandalising" seems a bit much < 1311109097 391692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so, typically opening a locked cabinet without the key damages it < 1311109112 53788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you pick the lock < 1311109112 651063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the cabinet is badly designed < 1311109126 484687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather minor damage, but fair enough < 1311109141 61982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opening a locked cabinet without permission is wrong regardless. < 1311109163 399568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think it's completely inexcusable in all circumstances < 1311109172 792568 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, inexcusable != wrong. < 1311109177 633461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's typically likely to be wrong, but there are circumstances in which it's morally justifiable < 1311109183 603614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not necessarily. < 1311109189 12704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, MIT has a long history of that kind of stuff. < 1311109198 630077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even when done by non-MITers? < 1311109206 859870 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so interesting to me is whether you can have a game like arimaa where there is no first/second player advantage < 1311109235 622594 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a wannabe game designer, this is a pain < 1311109238 303906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : lifthrasiir: No, the command, the step number, and the index of the command are added up, and the digital root of that (mod 4) is the actual command < 1311109240 207082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not that I know of, but I don't think anyone in charge of switch cabinets at MIT expects them to never be broken into < 1311109245 914151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: making the game symmetrical is an easy way < 1311109254 393306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, both people think of moves independently, then make them simultaneously < 1311109265 584773 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i believe you can take the digital roots first, and do the additions mod 9 < 1311109269 989034 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital root mod 4? what? < 1311109279 112591 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: digital root, then mod 4 < 1311109291 538751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, if they figured out someone had planted a laptop in a switch cabinet, they'd probably have just removed it rather than trying to block its IP and MAC address < 1311109313 779396 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: yeah.. but can you rule out advantage while also ruling out a draw? < 1311109342 391122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you could finish off with matching pennies or something < 1311109350 85436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's a bit of a contrived and cheaty example < 1311109352 979182 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh wait i just realized something, digital roots tend to be 9 not 0. hm whoops i wonder if my table has errors because of this. < 1311109365 998601 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching pennies? < 1311109385 75510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just looking at the painful limitations of games < 1311109389 339225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a two player game; each player says head or tails (chosen independently, and then both reveal at the same time), the first player wins if they say the same, the second otherwise < 1311109404 737654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like rock-paper-scissors, except you can't get draws < 1311109407 918041 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 shouldn't happen unless you are at the beginning of the program starting with 0! < 1311109425 279424 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1311109455 975972 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: i like the sound of it < 1311109509 648624 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uurgh... < 1311109512 158994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill < 1311109556 177683 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311109565 506010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: use a unicorn horn if you can; if not, eat eucalyptus leaf or as a last resort pray < 1311109569 917819 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311109571 709289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have around 40 turns left to live < 1311109577 593315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, wrong channel < 1311109625 859470 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each player specifies a 0 or 1 privately p1 and p2. And then they are both revealed. if (p1 == p2) player 1 wins, else player 2 wins. < 1311109630 654985 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be some 0's should be 1's instead. fortunately this won't ruin the easy numberwang row < 1311109661 672360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yep, that's it < 1311109770 20814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ais: yeah.. but can you rule out advantage while also ruling out a draw?" <<< if you don't have draws, either the first or the second player always wins, obviously. (assuming perfect players, and why wouldn't you.) < 1311109835 295362 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay if you have imperfect information, that's not true < 1311109852 68922 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone in the universe has perfect information :> < 1311109855 574906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: imperfect information or randomness < 1311109861 60631 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-P < 1311109861 892871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching pennies does it via imperfect information < 1311109864 370616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to what ais523 said < 1311109882 86346 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: but it's still very formal. i like it. it's not dice rolling < 1311109884 881453 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing except silent disapproval to what itidus20 said < 1311109919 219137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: have you read any game theory? it's all about that stuff < 1311109927 516815 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo: i don't like the state of affairs. i am slinging arrows about. < 1311109952 922874 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes perfect sense i guess < 1311109973 740989 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've never heard of any rules of Go which would lead to an uncountable number of games < 1311110011 311586 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. looking at the penny example. so each player selects 1 bit privately, and then.. the rules are a 2 bit table. < 1311110044 903898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's a common representation for games in academia < 1311110048 913336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a lookup table < 1311110054 195559 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it such that the rules were stacked 3 ways to win vs 1 way to lose < 1311110054 395116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work too well for complex games, though < 1311110073 727846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ais523 just mentioned simple ko < 1311110075 85884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that wouldn't be too fun, though, as one player play the move that let them always win < 1311110078 822911 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311110081 633420 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311110084 599472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: simple ko, you can < 1311110089 822914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :superko, the number of games is finite < 1311110090 765062 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? < 1311110100 14418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: triple ko allows you to produce arbitrary integers < 1311110100 566197 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: and this is why fundamentally we hate first person advantage < 1311110106 463348 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which are countable < 1311110108 222848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two triple kos on the board at the same time gives arbitarry reals < 1311110119 143647 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1311110122 248605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can interleave them uncountably many ways < 1311110138 806325 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it ultimately allows the first player to always win in perfect conditions(which luckily don't exist) < 1311110157 276702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, imagine you take the binary expansion of a real, for 0 each player plays a move in the first triple ko, for 1 each player plays a move in the second triple ko < 1311110164 506633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all reals give different games that way < 1311110169 633117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between 0 and 1, but that doesn't matter) < 1311110175 865141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, uncountably many games are possible < 1311110189 760278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, have repetitions either 3 or 4 steps away from each other and just encode a bit sequence < 1311110191 27742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311110192 788783 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to me.. chess is matching pennies where: 01 = win, 00,10,11 = lose < 1311110195 634672 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm... < 1311110199 64696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311110206 813438 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that its so complex that noone knows how to grab that advantage < 1311110218 526760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: fair enough < 1311110237 203151 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok and all... but its a nasty fact. < 1311110237 401220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people tend to play chess a lot more than matching pennies, thuogh < 1311110238 664732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1311110247 707706 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.78.85 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311110247 905795 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok you win < 1311110256 341919 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means chess is useless on a small enough scale < 1311110266 903791 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't scale down to simple < 1311110280 892031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there's more perceived skill in chess precisely because you can gain an advantage by knowing the lookup table more than your opponent does < 1311110290 254874 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a small enough board it is tic tac toe as far as the PC is concerned < 1311110305 298792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311110336 99263 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still appreciate the actuality of chess < 1311110346 153858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc with the natural infinitification, go with simple ko is something like exptime hard but we don't know anything about superko < 1311110373 949443 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether a position is winning that is) < 1311110391 908569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the actuality of chess mean? < 1311110414 195613 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what people do with chess instead of theorizing and analyzing it < 1311110420 629546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :play it < 1311110436 971946 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. that one. yeah < 1311110455 592140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is extremely boring to play though < 1311110503 727951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you not find boring to play? < 1311110539 240638 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :space jazz? < 1311110552 915460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i like board games where you don't need to think, then i don't start clumsily doing brute-force search < 1311110561 652340 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say monopoly < 1311110614 175753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1311110624 518379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monopoly: the game designed to tear families apart. < 1311110625 734635 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of liked go as well the one time i played it < 1311110628 176636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the skill in monopoly is negotiation < 1311110633 681229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two-player monopoly is really boring < 1311110639 181533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hence the families being torn apart. < 1311110649 841218 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on trying to arbitrarily map the 4 possible results of penny matching i see that only 1 version is balanced < 1311110662 876524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :negotiation is gay, i just like the part where you have a number that tells you how good you're doing and it randomly goes up or down < 1311110670 282147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :95% of divorces are due to Monopoly, true fact. < 1311110670 863344 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can you negotiate in monopoly? I thought the rules and chance decided everything in monopoly? < 1311110692 489277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to try Diplomacy at some point < 1311110696 244019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_, you say 'oi, do that and I'll do that'. < 1311110699 735887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's pretty boring. < 1311110713 869918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: you can trade properties < 1311110715 756980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wrong thing. < 1311110717 929554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also money < 1311110732 70535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah negotiation type of thingies are certainly more fun than search games < 1311110746 859105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2 < 1311110747 231195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1311110791 879187 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die ld2 < 1311110792 603368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "l": expecting number < 1311110798 617328 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311110803 262564 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2 < 1311110804 90816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1311110876 697303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die evil scum < 1311110877 428873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "e": expecting number < 1311110895 658295 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT e IS A NUMBER!" < 1311110897 10735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d(1d(1d6)) < 1311110897 838730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "(": expecting number < 1311110898 394688 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-" < 1311110900 260984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1311110910 166871 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d1e6 < 1311110911 42877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "e": expecting digit, "+" or end < 1311110919 622863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2.7 < 1311110920 455898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ".": expecting digit, "+" or end < 1311110934 323093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: so by "expecting number", you mean "expecting positive integer"? < 1311110937 484023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d0 < 1311110938 413073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d0 => 0 < 1311110940 24464 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp233.akk.k-net.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311110947 601266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 0d1 < 1311110948 252412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0d1 => 0 < 1311110955 835650 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-negative then ... unless you say 0 is positive < 1311110969 270458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, non-negative, I was surprised at those cases working < 1311110972 411427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the first of them < 1311111018 149326 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 100000000000000000000000000000000000d6 < 1311111018 939892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :100000000000000000000000000... => 350000000000000000177312581656777664 < 1311111035 815822 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö < 1311111053 811343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1311111081 687836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at zero-sided die < 1311111097 434615 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does randomR (1,x) which ends up being (1,0) and lo>hi is undefined < 1311111106 387938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just goes to an infinite loop if you cast it < 1311111108 359415 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unspecified < 1311111173 178246 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a zero-sided die, could be a sphere < 1311111194 859535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a one-sided die < 1311111206 26202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero-sided die would have to not land at all < 1311111449 507531 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit weird though, the limit at infinite sides would be a sphere, so I'd expect the lower limit to be something else < 1311111525 655461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bot on Foonetic < 1311111547 133993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calls 2 sided die coins, 1 sided die marbles, and 0 sided die ephemeral, iirc < 1311111610 170789 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are 3 sided die? Die? < 1311111638 590435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethereal < 1311111642 600232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oops < 1311111647 112617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 sided are called ethereal < 1311111657 792805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just die < 1311111679 876828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d1 < 1311111680 75183 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1, dummy. < 1311111680 75360 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d2 < 1311111680 75461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo got: tails. < 1311111680 75612 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d0 < 1311111680 824069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ethereal dice always show 0. < 1311111702 851895 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ethereal and ephemeral mean kind of the same thing? < 1311111748 870512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311111754 160659 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d1 < 1311111754 439075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have that many marbles. < 1311111754 636963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d2 < 1311111754 637123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have that many coins. < 1311111754 637224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d0 < 1311111754 637321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ephemeral is fleeting < 1311111754 835525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ethereal dice always show 0. < 1311111756 523527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethereal is ghostly < 1311111775 754022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a temporary file is ephemeral; sprites are ethereal < 1311111779 259838 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoooooooooky < 1311111790 46901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totes < 1311111803 376596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d3 < 1311111803 575291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : My dice bag is not that big. < 1311112283 673690 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what about 3-sided? everything 4 and up is trivial, and we seem to have covered 0-2, but I can't imagine anything 3d and 3-sided < 1311112288 913567 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se NICK :olsner < 1311112398 444113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, i can < 1311112458 517753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if the faces need to be plane, hmmhmm. < 1311112484 892600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is impossible < 1311112495 973142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the idea each face needs to be a triangle < 1311112500 349579 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^at least a < 1311112509 168969 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should be able to make something that has exactly three stable states < 1311112519 671824 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that's easy < 1311112534 294371 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it need to be regular < 1311112540 127285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have two points on each side < 1311112544 829155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, non-side < 1311112545 791030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you add a vertex to a triangle you get a 4 sided shape < 1311112553 438296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for instance what Sgeo is saying < 1311112694 70808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can't have bends, consider the first face, the second face and the third face must divide its rim in among each other and extend in the same direction; but then if those faces are plane, and the resulting object is closed, clearly the first face has to be just a line < 1311112697 215484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, what about 3-sided? everything 4 and up is trivial, and we seem to have covered 0-2, but I can't imagine anything 3d and 3-sided < 1311112718 624651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial to make a shape which can only form a stable equilibrium in n states. < 1311112752 569181 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, you missed the line a couple of lines down where I drew that conclusion < 1311113921 567722 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311114069 224411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this distressing feeling that my headphone jack is on its last legs. < 1311114097 688088 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311114298 494427 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311114436 890798 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311114594 547887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311114678 82854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311116562 111590 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311117467 230100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does something unthinkable on Linux... < 1311117472 186131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defragmentation. < 1311117505 759162 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO < 1311117757 339561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Fuck clay its only purpose is ecoration < 1311117758 451786 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :518) Fuck clay its only purpose is ecoration < 1311117929 813872 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecoration of ecosystems < 1311117994 790794 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311118011 1288 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :decosystems < 1311118040 944861 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've seen some very useful clay < 1311118135 575599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is a line more true than a curve? < 1311118149 236830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^straight line < 1311118177 183772 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true? what does that mean < 1311118180 420495 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311118197 197019 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just that straight lines are easy < 1311118227 145883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is theory more puce than practice? < 1311118236 788060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a fixation on straight lines < 1311118252 620370 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love curvy wobbly non-lines < 1311118262 829609 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1311118351 27840 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to associate 1 dimension with a straight line < 1311118381 618494 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably all those x,y,z diagrams < 1311118471 769882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally (and this seems to have happened to no fanfare), e4defrag seems to have actually gotten released. < 1311118477 115110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight? One dimension? < 1311118502 205127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean that 1D things are normally portrayed as straight, that's because they have no innate curvature. < 1311118542 535853 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfectly *valid* to have a 1-dimensional vector space in a higher space that is curved in that higher space, though. < 1311118552 8028 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a 1 dimensional vector space _is_ a straight line. < 1311118563 680689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um, no. that's not a vector space then. < 1311118576 219591 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a vector subspace. < 1311118600 431020 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Actually, let me think about this before I try to explain what I meant. < 1311118606 299169 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And see if I just said something stupid. < 1311118614 4584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however 1 dimensional non-vector spaces don't need to be straight lines (duh) < 1311118624 299770 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: informally I get what you meant. that a ribbon representing 1d could twirl about in 3d space < 1311118633 540347 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I just said something stupid. < 1311118635 163478 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still represent 1d < 1311118666 467644 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector spaces quite explicitly need to be linear. < 1311118691 323860 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve >:) < 1311118693 627100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, a non-vector space has no such restrction. Yay. < 1311118716 348619 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no such restriction.. ^5 another beer < 1311118717 194582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at ".." (column 17) < 1311118732 205122 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311118751 242320 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that command was < 1311118755 218666 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no < 1311118755 982113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1311118760 168052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nod < 1311118760 863267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: bid do id todo yow < 1311118770 103289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311118770 495007 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did lambda < 1311118772 851437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list do < 1311118773 634153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo provides: undo do < 1311118788 622492 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Excuse me for saying stupid shit. Just because I did well in linear algebra doesn't mean I'm going to fuck up even basic bits of it. :P < 1311118790 847575 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.221.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311118813 87527 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@do [such restriction.. 2^5 another beer] < 1311118814 12661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[such restriction .. 2 ^ 5 another beer] < 1311118817 995760 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CLOSE < 1311118835 340141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1311118843 109128 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311118846 854428 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no [such restriction.. 2^5 another beer] < 1311118847 523658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[such restriction .. 2 ^ 5 another beer] < 1311118876 114390 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so close to parsing correctly < 1311118911 517851 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my role here is to be a clueless free agent assuming to understand another's field without having read more than a wiki page or 2 < 1311118930 480843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311118948 269314 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: see what you did, scaring away elliott < 1311118976 201776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't recall where the understanding anothers field line comes from.. probably big bang theory < 1311118979 499759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott doesn't like clueless people, true fact < 1311118999 68210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311119036 925247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my comments are also hopefully kind of fun because they have no financial or research incentive < 1311119043 459648 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't mean to be anything < 1311119065 60732 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so you are not a spambot, i guess that's _something_... < 1311119098 251885 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm romero to carmack < 1311119110 501361 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is saying a bit much < 1311119166 756000 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maximum [] < 1311119167 867950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.maximum: empty list < 1311119190 99355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oi56.tinypic.com/2d14acn.jpg < 1311119572 632828 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t (1,) < 1311119573 291614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1311119577 656763 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (1,) < 1311119579 16250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal tuple section: use -XTupleSections < 1311119626 271674 :foocraft!~ewanas@178.152.90.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311119672 491045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,) 1 -- same thing < 1311119674 112822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t b. (Num t) => b -> (t, b) < 1311119697 564042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just found out "bash on balls" exist. Seriously wtf. < 1311119710 236793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/jayferd/balls < 1311119841 757304 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311119851 429616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha what < 1311119868 853509 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash web platform sounds like a horrible idea < 1311119907 680030 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a joke. < 1311119913 345741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it is tongue in cheek indeed < 1311119922 157604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a fully-featured web platform for everyone's favorite scripting language: bash. Because, you know, we can."