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00:12:14 <elliott_> <elliott_> <newsham> i want a shirt made of spider silk
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01:08:57 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
01:09:01 <lambdabot> [Infinity,5.0,-Infinity,-Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,N...
01:09:27 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `..'
01:09:43 <Lymee> > [1/0,5..0-(1/0)]
01:09:44 <lambdabot> [Infinity,5.0,-Infinity,-Infinity]
01:11:49 <oerjan> > let l = [1/0,5..] in l !! 2 == l !! 3
01:12:30 <elliott_> Gregor Gregor Gregor Gregor Gregor
01:12:44 <lambdabot> [Infinity,3.141592653589793,-Infinity,-Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN...
01:12:50 <oerjan> weird, why does it have two equal elements and _then_ a different one...
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01:13:00 <Lymee> oerjan, because infinity is weird.
01:13:40 <oerjan> elliott_: well i'm just wondering what kind of algorithm can do that, it means it cannot be adding the same constant each time...
01:13:55 <elliott_> oerjan: um you realise (==) is not true on floating point
01:14:54 <lambdabot> Source not found. Do you think like you type?
01:15:31 <oerjan> the RealFloat methods...
01:15:34 <elliott_> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.2/html/libraries/base-4.3.1.0/src/Numeric.html
01:15:42 <lambdabot> [0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0....
01:15:46 <elliott_> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.2/html/libraries/base-4.3.1.0/Prelude.html#t:RealFloat
01:15:47 <elliott_> oerjan: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.2/html/libraries/base-4.3.1.0/Prelude.html#t:RealFloat
01:15:50 <lambdabot> [Infinity,Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,...
01:16:06 <lambdabot> [NaN,Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,N...
01:16:12 <lambdabot> [NaN,5.0,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,Na...
01:17:25 <oerjan> > map decodeFloat [1/0,5..]
01:17:26 <lambdabot> [(4503599627370496,972),(5629499534213120,-50),(-4503599627370496,972),(-45...
01:17:36 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat [0/0,5..]
01:17:38 <lambdabot> [(-6755399441055744,972),(5629499534213120,-50),(-6755399441055744,972),(-6...
01:17:41 <oerjan> > drop 2 $ map decodeFloat [1/0,5..]
01:17:42 <lambdabot> [(-4503599627370496,972),(-4503599627370496,972),(-6755399441055744,972),(-...
01:17:59 <oerjan> elliott_: well that did not distinguish them
01:18:18 <lambdabot> Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist!
01:18:26 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat $ map (\x y -> (x/10,y)) [1/0,pi..-pi]
01:18:30 <elliott_> oerjan: i guess a sequential addition loop would do differently
01:18:33 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat $ map (\x y -> (x/10,y)) [1/0,pi..]
01:18:34 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.RealFloat (t -> (a, t)))
01:18:45 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat $ map (\x y -> (x/10,y)) $ [1/0,pi..]
01:18:47 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.RealFloat (t -> (a, t)))
01:19:01 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat $ map (\(x, y) -> (x/10,y)) $ [1/0,pi..]
01:19:02 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.RealFloat (t, t1))
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01:20:52 <oerjan> > map (map decodeFloat) $ map (\(x, y) -> [x/10,y]) $ [1/0,pi..]
01:20:54 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (a, a))
01:20:54 <lambdabot> arising from the arithmetic seque...
01:21:00 <tswett> Hey, does anyone want to play Zendo?
01:21:21 <Lymee> > map ma decodeFloat [1/0,pi..]
01:21:25 <Lymee> > map decodeFloat [1/0,pi..]
01:21:26 <lambdabot> [(4503599627370496,972),(7074237752028440,-51),(-4503599627370496,972),(-45...
01:21:54 <oerjan> > map (map decodeFloat) $ map (\x -> [x/10,x]) $ [1/0,pi..]
01:21:55 <Lymee> > drop 3 $ map decodeFloat [1/0,pi..]
01:21:55 <lambdabot> [[(4503599627370496,972),(4503599627370496,972)],[(5659390201622752,-54),(7...
01:21:56 <lambdabot> [(-4503599627370496,972),(-6755399441055744,972),(-6755399441055744,972),(-...
01:22:11 <Lymee> [(4503599627370496,972),(7074237752028440,-51),(-4503599627370496,972),(-4503599627370496,972),(-6755399441055744,972),(-6755399441055744,972)]
01:22:15 <Lymee> Now to figure out wtf is happening.
01:22:36 <tswett> sebbu: no, I'm a zendo!
01:22:36 <elliott> enumFromTo probably does not use repeated addition
01:22:39 <elliott> perhaps instead multiplying the constant
01:22:40 <lambdabot> [Infinity,5.0,-Infinity,-Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,N...
01:22:44 <tswett> elliott: no, I'm a zendo!
01:22:45 <Lymee> > -Infinity - -Infinity
01:22:46 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Infinity'Not in scope: data constructor `In...
01:23:23 <elliott> oerjan: yeah, it is not repeated subtraction
01:23:27 <elliott> but with different precedence
01:23:56 <elliott> Lymee: stop pinging me without saying anything
01:24:10 <Lymee> > (5 - ((1/0) - 5)) - ((1/0) - 5)
01:24:19 <Lymee> > ((5 - ((1/0) - 5)) - ((1/0) - 5)) - ((1/0) - 5)
01:24:43 <oerjan> > let f x y = x : f y (y+(y-x)) in f (1/0) 5
01:24:44 <lambdabot> [Infinity,5.0,-Infinity,-Infinity,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,N...
01:25:02 <elliott> oerjan: what a strange way of doing it
01:27:28 <oerjan> yeah you'd think that would be inefficient
01:29:17 <oerjan> hm that's not what h98 report says...
01:29:44 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
01:30:23 <oerjan> > let f x y = map ((x+).((y-x)*) [0..] in f (1/0) 5
01:30:24 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `in'
01:30:35 <oerjan> > let f x y = map ((x+).((y-x)*)) [0..] in f (1/0) 5
01:30:37 <lambdabot> [NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,Na...
01:31:11 <Lymee> ?pl let f x y = map ((x+).((y-x)*)) [0..] in f (1/0) 5
01:31:11 <lambdabot> map ((1 / 0 +) . ((5 - 1 / 0) *)) [0..]
01:31:23 <Lymee> That's not as near as dotty as I expected.
01:31:50 <oerjan> there are no lambdas to dot
01:31:58 <elliott> um that's just beta reduction Lymee
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01:38:51 <elliott> tehz is really annoying...
01:43:24 <oerjan> Enum Double appears to be an orphan instance, it's hard to find the actual source :(
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01:50:59 * oerjan finally finds a link to GHC.Float source
01:52:59 <elliott> oerjan: you should just download ghc when looking for internal module sources :P
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01:58:11 <oerjan> numericEnumFromThen n m= n `seq` m `seq` (n : numericEnumFromThen m (m+m-n))
01:58:24 <oerjan> finally found it in GHC.Real
01:58:57 <elliott> but why such a weird definition, i guess maybe it's more accurate
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02:01:58 <oerjan> elliott: according to some comments i found under way, these were originally in the haskell 1.2 report
02:02:04 <oerjan> the h98 report instead has
02:02:16 <oerjan> numericEnumFromThen n m = iterate (+(m-n)) n
02:02:53 <oerjan> well those comments may of course be out of date for the actual current ghc code
02:03:35 <oerjan> the ghc code has a strictness error, me thinks
02:03:58 <oerjan> the report indicates it should give the 1.0
02:04:17 <elliott> oerjan: (also, you realise h98 isn't the report any more, right?)
02:04:26 <elliott> where does it indicate that?
02:04:29 <oerjan> yeah but i doubt this changed
02:04:36 <oerjan> http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/standard-prelude.html
02:04:52 <elliott> oerjan: which part exactly?
02:05:07 <elliott> enumFromThen :: a -> a -> [a] -- [n,n'..]
02:06:13 <elliott> oerjan: um is exact identicality required?
02:06:16 <elliott> even when _|_ is involved?
02:06:29 <oerjan> _especially_ when _|_ is involved.
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02:07:29 <oerjan> there was a reasonable improvement to filterM which they wouldn't make because it would cause certain _|_'s to show up in a different place
02:07:34 <elliott> argh, Chrome, forget my guest/guest login
02:08:13 <oerjan> elliott: you might mention the silly [1/0, 5..] behavior :P
02:08:45 <elliott> FUCK THIS HOW THE FUCK DO I LOG IN JESUS
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02:09:52 <oerjan> see, this is precisely the kind of reason why i refuse to report things :P
02:10:13 <elliott> um that was my stupidity for logging in to the guest account first
02:10:55 <elliott> oerjan: paste me numericEnumFrom, numericEnumFromThen definitions?
02:11:11 <oerjan> numericEnumFrom :: (Fractional a) => a -> [a]
02:11:12 <oerjan> numericEnumFrom n= n `seq` (n : numericEnumFrom (n + 1))
02:11:12 <oerjan> numericEnumFromThen :: (Fractional a) => a -> a -> [a]
02:11:12 <oerjan> numericEnumFromThen n m= n `seq` m `seq` (n : numericEnumFromThen m (m+m-n))
02:11:44 <oerjan> the former looks reasonable
02:12:33 <oerjan> although the seq means it's not entirely equivalent to the standard Prelude
02:13:13 <elliott> > map (const ()) [0, undefined..]
02:13:41 <elliott> oerjan: hm so the standard evaluation of [0.0, undefined..] should be...
02:14:09 <elliott> 0.0 : iterate (+(0.0-undefined)) (0.0+(0.0-undefined))
02:14:15 <elliott> oerjan: in other words, 0.0 : undefined?
02:14:31 <oerjan> 0.0 : repeat undefined, i think
02:14:51 <elliott> <elliott> > map (const ()) [0, undefined..]
02:14:51 <elliott> <lambdabot> [()*Exception: Prelude.undefined
02:15:15 <elliott> oerjan: does that mean more than numericEnumFromThen is broken?
02:15:30 <oerjan> ok, confirmed nothing has changed with those two functions in h2010
02:15:58 <oerjan> elliott: erm Integer doesn't use numericEnumFromThen
02:16:10 <elliott> oerjan: i already confirmed that
02:16:14 <elliott> oerjan: and yes, but doesn't it mean it's still broken?
02:16:14 <oerjan> it's solely for Float and Double
02:16:54 <oerjan> there is no code. it is quite possible undefined behavior is not specified for those :P
02:17:34 <elliott> > map (const ()) (iterate (+1) undefined)
02:17:35 <lambdabot> [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()...
02:19:08 <elliott> oerjan: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/5279
02:19:26 <elliott> oerjan: my first GHC bug :)
02:19:31 <elliott> er, I probably should have credited you
02:19:35 <elliott> I can edit it if you want :P
02:19:39 <elliott> or, hm, no I can't, only reply
02:20:07 <oerjan> i wasn't quite finished checking the report
02:20:14 <elliott> oerjan: well I did my own checking...
02:20:17 <oerjan> "For all four of these Prelude numeric types, all of the enumFrom family of functions are strict in all their arguments."
02:21:11 <oerjan> the code in the report is not consistent with it, but ghc may have added those seq's for it
02:21:48 <oerjan> anyway, this still doesn't change that enumFromThen is stupidly defined on Float/Double
02:22:05 <oerjan> by repeatedly recalculating the difference to add
02:23:21 <oerjan> elliott: btw this means Integer is not strict _enough_ in ghc :P
02:23:30 <elliott> you can never be unstrict enough
02:23:39 <elliott> oerjan: you could reply to the bug report as a guest saying it's sort of valid :P
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02:24:00 <oerjan> by that report line that should not give the initial 0
02:24:23 <elliott> oerjan: check that that's ABSOLUTELY sure and I'll report it
02:24:48 <oerjan> since when am i absolutely sure about anything
02:25:20 <oerjan> but i just quoted that line above, which applies to Int, Integer, Float and Double
02:25:55 <oerjan> of course the report (both h98 and h2010) is inconsistent :P
02:26:11 <elliott> oerjan: report a bug in the report :P
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03:02:06 <monqy> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/ghc-prim-0.2.0.0/src/GHC-Tuple.html#%28%2C%29 this is the best thing
03:02:10 <monqy> especially the commented out part
03:03:34 <oerjan> wait, ghc actually defines tuples in source?
03:04:38 <oerjan> mainly because it's not legal haskell syntax
03:04:41 <monqy> and it just keeps on going
03:04:50 <elliott> oerjan: um neither is (:) and []
03:05:12 <elliott> /home/elliott/Code/test.hs:1:6:
03:05:12 <elliott> Illegal binding of built-in syntax: (,)
03:05:15 <oerjan> indeed. are they defined in source, too?
03:05:17 <elliott> oerjan: i guess ghc-prim gets some special flags
03:05:31 <oerjan> elliott: maybe it's that GHC.Generics import
03:06:22 <elliott> argh it makes reference to GHC.List, which is not listed
03:07:16 <oerjan> hm i had similar trouble finding GHC.Float
03:07:22 <elliott> oerjan: checking the tarball now
03:08:01 <elliott> huh GHC.List may not actually exist?
03:08:25 <elliott> -- [] (..), -- Not Haskell 98; built in syntax
03:08:46 <elliott> -- We need to set the package name to ghc-prim (without a version number)
03:08:46 <elliott> ghc-options: -package-name ghc-prim
03:08:50 <elliott> oerjan: i bet that allows binding of the syntax
03:09:04 <elliott> {-# OPTIONS_GHC -XNoImplicitPrelude -XTypeOperators #-}
03:09:05 <elliott> data (:+:) a b = Inl a | Inr b
03:09:12 <oerjan> elliott: i found it in the same directory as GHC.Float, i think it's split according to original base version
03:10:55 <oerjan> NoImplicitPrelude might help with some things too
03:11:00 <Sgeo> Some of my (or my parents' I guess) money went to Deepak Chopra
03:12:32 <elliott> ?hoogle (a -> Bool) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> b) -> a -> b
03:12:33 <lambdabot> Control.Parallel.Strategies (-|) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy b -> (b -> c) -> a -> c
03:12:33 <lambdabot> Control.Parallel.Strategies (-||) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy b -> (b -> c) -> a -> c
03:12:33 <lambdabot> Control.Parallel.Strategies (.|) :: (b -> c) -> Strategy b -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
03:12:45 <elliott> ?. pl djinn (a -> Bool) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> b) -> a -> b
03:12:45 <lambdabot> expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input
03:12:49 <elliott> ?.djinn (a -> Bool) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> b) -> a -> b
03:13:44 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
03:14:00 <oerjan> they don't seem to have included any of those yet
03:14:19 <elliott> actually, I'm id if the condition is not true
03:14:29 <elliott> ?hoogle (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
03:14:30 <lambdabot> Prelude until :: (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a
03:14:30 <lambdabot> Prelude (.) :: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
03:14:30 <lambdabot> Data.Function (.) :: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
03:14:46 <elliott> it's foo p f x = if p x then f x else x
03:14:56 <elliott> oerjan: chr (ord 'a' + ((ord c - ord 'a') + n) `mod` 26)
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03:17:02 <zzo38> There are many things in Magic: the Gathering that if I was making rules of a similar game I would consider different things to be logical than what they would have.
03:17:27 <Sgeo> I wonder how many of the MtG rules are due to historical cruf
03:17:37 <Sgeo> Making sure old cards still work etc.
03:17:47 <Lymee> I don't think there's as much as exists in Windows.
03:17:51 <Lymee> If that's a useful comparison.
03:17:53 <zzo38> Like, I would name the zones differently: library is now called "draw zone", graveyard is "discard zone", hand is still called "hand zone", exile/remove-from-game is called "miscellaneous zone", stack is still caleld "stack zone".
03:18:34 <Lymee> Those arn't rules.
03:18:58 <zzo38> I dislike the rule that a aura is not also allowed to be a creature, and would remove that rule.
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03:20:47 <zzo38> When a object moves from one zone to another, in most cases, the old object no longer exists and the new object is created from the old object's "initial data". A token has none and therefore when it moves, nothing is added to the new zone; there would be no state based effect for making tokens cease to exist when moving outside play.
03:21:02 <zzo38> A copy of a spell would now be considered a token.
03:21:37 <zzo38> This means a copy of a artifact/creature/enchantment spell can be played and you move an object from stack to play, it remains the same object so it is the same token and it will still work.
03:24:25 <zzo38> And then that sources of damage that do not exist do not deal any damage (the target will not receive any damage from non-existent source). However damage still waiting to be dealt is still dealt the same way if the source object still exists, regardless of changes that might have been made (except possibly for triggered abilities that prevent it).
03:24:55 <zzo38> Do you think my way is more logical or more insane or both or neither?
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03:34:34 <Lymee> > replicate 4 [1..]
03:34:35 <lambdabot> [[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,2...
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03:56:35 <elliott> i like how (f x x) and (let y = x in f y y) aren't equivalent
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03:58:41 <elliott> > let foo f x = f x in foo 9 9
03:58:49 <elliott> > let foo f x = f x in (let x = 9 in foo x x)
03:58:59 <elliott> > let foo f (x::Int) = f x in (let x = 9 in foo x x)
03:59:11 <elliott> that surely should be a type error
03:59:32 <elliott> Sgeo: ok im pretty sure you can have it done but
03:59:56 <Lymia> -'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.
03:59:56 <Lymia> -.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'
03:59:56 <Lymia> -'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.
03:59:56 <Lymia> -.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'-.＿.-'￣'
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04:02:20 * copumpkin doesn't get what you were trying to show
04:03:05 <elliott> copumpkin: a case of (f x x) and (let y = x in f y y) one of which failing to type and the other not
04:04:37 <Sgeo> Does this have anything to do with monomorphic thingies?
04:05:06 <monqy> none of the attempts make any sense to me
04:05:10 <coppro> elliott: how dare you take my name in vain
04:05:38 <coppro> elliott: why thank you
04:06:17 <monqy> (let foo f x = f x in foo 9 9) => (9 9) => ??????????????
04:06:42 <monqy> my ghci can't type it either without assitance :(
04:07:00 <elliott> monqy: num instance for functions
04:07:24 <monqy> lambdabot is crazy
04:08:14 <monqy> I always expect things like that to be in a newtype so it's harder to accidentally apply them
04:08:48 <elliott> monqy: thats so less elegant :(
04:09:18 <Lymia> ?pl (succ + pred) 9
04:09:44 <Lymia> > (succ + pred / succ + pred) 9
04:09:57 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a)
04:11:12 <lambdabot> forall a. (Enum a, Num a) => a -> a
04:12:36 <Lymia> Does " (Enum a, Num a) " mean "an Enum and Num?"
04:14:41 <monqy> > (show :: Num a => a -> String) (succ + pred)
04:14:41 <lambdabot> "*Exception: show: No overloading for function
04:15:01 <Lymia> :t show $ (succ + pred)
04:15:12 <Lymia> :t show (succ + pred)
04:15:19 <Lymia> :t show . (succ + pred)
04:15:20 <lambdabot> forall a. (Num a, Enum a) => a -> String
04:17:25 <Lymia> ?pl show . (succ + pred)
04:17:35 <Lymia> What is point-free style anyways?
04:20:32 <monqy> ?pl (\ x -> x x) (\ x -> x x)
04:20:35 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
04:20:54 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
04:26:35 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
04:27:29 <elliott> <Lymia> What is point-free style anyways?
04:27:44 <elliott> where a point is a named argument
04:27:51 <elliott> i.e. \x -> x has one point, id has none
04:28:13 <elliott> point-free style builds up functions with combinators and composition rather than explicitly writing a lambda transformation
04:32:23 <Sgeo> That sounds annoying to write out in some circumstances
04:33:09 <elliott> can you do any more haskell than that goldilocks joke again
04:33:46 <Sgeo> I wrote a junky BF interpreter onc
04:34:07 <Sgeo> I kind of misplaced it
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04:44:34 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
05:01:28 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
05:01:29 <lambdabot> Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
05:01:29 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `ap', namely `id'
05:06:38 <elliott> theory: it is impossible to write anything relating to douglas hofstadter without being really cringeworthy, this includes being hofstadter and writing anything
05:07:30 <elliott> Does anyone know how to find something in Chrome's cache?
05:07:36 <elliott> It stores a lot of things compressed, etc.
05:08:17 <monqy> a quick search came up with about:cache -- is that what you want
05:08:45 <newsham> i bet they know in #chromium and #chromium-os
05:08:54 <elliott> monqy: no that's just a huge list of cached things
05:09:01 <elliott> newsham: but this is the channel for everything :(
05:09:03 <monqy> try clicking on them??
05:09:10 <elliott> monqy: gives the compressed data :)
05:09:36 <elliott> -ChanServ- [#chromium] Welcome to #chromium! Please see topic; this is NOT a support channel.
05:09:38 <monqy> oh hey toying around with it and the back button crashed chromium
05:09:55 <monqy> speaking of esolangs, is there a record of who makes the most brainfuck derivatives
05:10:06 <monqy> chromium crashes on the stupidest things sometimes
05:10:14 <monqy> I tried to hit back while viewing some good compressed data
05:10:32 <elliott> monqy: i suspect something that isnt chromium
05:10:48 <monqy> maybe it's something that isn't chromium
05:11:13 <monqy> but then why would that kill chromium
05:11:43 <elliott> something else in your system
05:11:53 <elliott> chrome literally never crashes for me
05:12:36 <monqy> it only crashes on dumb things for me
05:12:54 <monqy> like hitting back or dragging a bookmark into the tab bar thing
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05:13:14 <monqy> and even then it only crashes sometimes
05:13:32 <monqy> and by hitting back I mean specificially when viewing cached data and only that one time. I haven't tried reproducing it
05:13:44 <monqy> does xmonad have a reputation for killing chromium
05:13:52 <elliott> maybe chromium has some tiling wm-related bugs
05:14:12 <monqy> bizarre they would trigger then though
05:15:14 <newsham> maybe because xmonad causes it to resize the window quicker than it is prepared to be resized?
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05:16:32 <monqy> I just tried some fancy resizing tricks and did get a bug but not a crashy one
05:16:52 <monqy> the tab bar failed to resize and now it's running out of the frame
05:17:07 <monqy> by which I mean it cuts off
05:25:23 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Image:Staq.jpg
05:26:03 <monqy> which prompted me to raise my question about brainfuck derivative quantity championship
05:26:51 <monqy> assuming that language is indeed a brainfuck derivative -- I only glanced at it (too many instructions but I might try reading the spec anyway)
05:27:59 <coppro> have such a competition
05:28:42 <coppro> I wouldn't call staq a bf derivative though
05:30:18 <elliott> still need a hostname here
05:30:50 <monqy> from my glance, []() and the command style/syntax/program execution style taste of brainfuck
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05:38:14 <coppro> monqy: It's got an execution model nothing like brainfuck's
05:38:46 <coppro> [] admittedly are similar to BF
05:38:47 <monqy> I'm going to pretend style doesn't mean model
05:39:15 <coppro> but otherwise, the only similarity is that every instruction has no arguments
05:39:51 <coppro> (and are, except for {}, one character)
05:40:21 <monqy> I wish there were fewer nonessential instructions so I could find the good parts
05:41:22 <elliott> its a madk language it is probably boring
05:42:05 <coppro> it's closer to befunge, honestly
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05:42:10 <monqy> I dunno; it is characterized by its fairly unique take on program flow, which allows intertwined loops and instruction overrides among other oddities. The language has robust access to two separate stacks, so the language is probably Turing-complete.
05:42:27 <coppro> oh it's obviously turing complete
05:43:47 <coppro> it's pretty easy to implement fixed-tape-length BF on top of it
05:44:00 <coppro> slightly more complex if you want infinite tape
05:44:03 <coppro> but far from impossible
05:44:40 <elliott> you realise that was a copypaste
05:45:09 <coppro> I didn't read the wiki article
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05:45:30 <monqy> it makes it sound exciting
05:45:45 <monqy> or at least fairly unique
05:46:30 <coppro> elliott: how's your nethack variant coming along
05:50:57 <elliott> ais is the one with acehack
05:51:58 <coppro> elliott: do you have an angband variant?
05:52:42 <elliott> do you know some other elliott
05:53:18 <zzo38> I have been unable to compile Nethack and probably won't bother with it.
05:54:43 <coppro> elliott: you do not have an angband variant
05:54:47 <coppro> therefore you have a nethack variant
05:57:28 <zzo38> coppro: That is not any sort of proper proof. Q.E.D.
05:57:45 <elliott> coppro: i am starting a zzo38 appreciation club do you want to join
06:04:16 <coppro> elliott: only if we get to be snobby
06:07:45 <pikhq> GCC bootstrap: worst thing, or worst thing *ever*?
06:09:20 * pikhq wonders who thought it made sense to build the compiler not once, not twice, but three times.
06:09:32 <elliott> I NEED GREGOR'S ASSISTAIOTNE
06:14:25 <Sgeo> pikhq, does it actually make a difference if you don't build it the third time?
06:14:51 <pikhq> Sgeo: It hardly makes a differencew if you don't build it a second time.
06:16:14 <Sgeo> Seems like the second time would be a sort of safety thing. Unless I'm counting weirdly. Or second time with itself, and first time by your numbering is second time total, just first time with itself?
06:25:49 <Gregor> Elizacat: You do not need my assisteaoux
06:26:14 <elliott> Gregor: The prgmr billing page how does it wooork
06:26:31 <elliott> Gregor: I literally do, I think my prgmr billing page is broken :P
06:26:47 <elliott> Now it works because it is asking for my money
06:27:06 <Gregor> elliott: They send you an invoice by email, the actual site just allows you to choose how often you wish to pay and that kind of thing.
06:27:23 <elliott> Gregor: It's just that I went to "Change payment information"
06:27:33 <elliott> Attention has "customerElliott Hird"
06:27:55 <elliott> Gregor: Hmm, is it going to bug me to do a paypal payment every single month? Greaaat :P
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07:12:58 <elliott> wow, they made opengl even more of a pain to use
07:13:02 <elliott> begin/end have been removed
07:13:15 <elliott> you're meant to use shader programs and buffer objects now APPARENTLY
07:16:07 <monqy> I know very little about opengl but that sounds delicious
07:16:20 <monqy> the most I know is that it's a pain
07:16:33 <monqy> I've also used the haskell bindings a bit but I've pretty much forgotten everything I knew about them
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07:48:18 * pikhq wonders why Linux *needs* Perl to build.
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08:40:22 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tic_tac_toe
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09:28:47 <Lymia> elliott, want to play?
09:29:20 <elliott> Lymia: you mean quantum tictactoe?
09:32:03 <Deewiant> The linked Java applet was somewhat illustrative
10:04:35 <Lymia> http://translate.google.com/#ja|en|%E3%81%8A%E3%81%A3%E3%81%99
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11:03:28 <elliott> "Is there code to draw a teapot without GLUT?"
11:19:04 <elliott> so uh is anyone an opengl expert
11:21:14 <elliott> Hope u drown in ur own Butt Mucous.
11:21:14 <elliott> Perhaps ur head is already too far up ur "___" fill in the blanks.
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11:36:48 <Elizacat> <Gregor> Elizacat: You do not need my assisteaoux
11:52:41 <elliott_> http://i.imgur.com/Uf5Xc.png YES! progress!
11:54:51 <elliott_> Deewiant: I think a teapot is a little ambitious at this point.
11:55:01 <elliott_> Deewiant: But hey, it ties OpenGL and SDL together in Haskell.
11:55:19 <elliott_> Deewiant: Although I fear "GL.renderPrimitive GL.Points" might be using that deprecated begin/end stuff that is _obviously_ evil.
11:55:39 <elliott_> But http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-BufferObjects.html terrifies me, so.
11:55:49 <elliott_> Or is it that, or was it something else.
11:55:56 <elliott_> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-VertexArrays.html Whatever it is it's terrifying.
11:57:05 <Deewiant> I'm only half-evil, I used display lists
11:57:26 <elliott_> And why are they even evil why is any of this evil why was begin/end removed why is all this shit shit
11:57:30 <Deewiant> compileDisplayList $ do GL stuff
11:58:17 <elliott_> GL.renderPrimitive GL.Points $ do
11:58:17 <elliott_> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (0::GL.GLint) 0
11:58:17 <elliott_> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (99::GL.GLdouble) 99
11:58:23 <elliott_> That second line is causing no difference to the drawing
11:58:36 <elliott_> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-DisplayLists.html ;; I see no compileDisplayList
11:58:41 <Deewiant> elliott_: It's like the difference between interpreting the renderPrimitive stuff every time versus compiling it once and then running it
11:59:00 <Deewiant> compileDisplayList was a helper of mine
11:59:04 <elliott_> There's a CompileAndExecute mode, which seems... missing the point.
11:59:13 <elliott_> Deewiant: What did you use for windowing/event stuff?
11:59:44 <elliott_> Deewiant: Cool, it's that thing I rejected because it takes callbacks in IO.
12:00:05 <elliott_> Deewiant: As opposed to not being callback-based so I can use liftIO in my own monad
12:00:10 <elliott_> SDL.Quit -> SDL.quit >> exitSuccess
12:00:45 <Deewiant> I just use IO and millions of IORefs
12:01:08 <elliott_> Deewiant: I'm trying to write an entire game here (yeah yeah, build one to throw away), that's kind of a non-ideal solution :P
12:01:25 <elliott_> Deewiant: (At the very least I'm going to use STM to make me feel better about myself, even if I'm not exactly sure how multiple cores would help here.)
12:01:31 <elliott_> (Maybe map generation could run in a background thread.)
12:01:35 <Deewiant> http://tar.us.to:31177/ just take a look if you like (warning, may not compile etc)
12:02:21 <elliott_> Oh man, is this where I do the fizzie mirroring thing
12:02:35 <elliott_> fatal: http://tar.us.to:31177/liaera/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
12:03:08 <elliott_> What's this actually trying to do anyway
12:03:45 <Deewiant> I think it'd do nothing without an input file but I may misremember
12:03:49 -!- Vorpal has joined.
12:03:55 <elliott_> oh wait duh i just typod the url
12:04:02 <elliott_> error: The requested URL returned error: 400 while accessing http://tar.us.to:31177//info/refs
12:04:33 <elliott_> a king without all these dependencies oh well
12:04:48 <elliott_> is this meant to be like some kind of freaky source code viewer
12:05:09 <elliott_> -> Map (Pair Int Int, Pair Int Int) G.Node
12:05:18 <elliott_> -> Map (Pair Int Int, Pair Int Int) G.Node
12:05:22 <elliott_> -> (Gr Path (), Map (Pair Int Int, Pair Int Int) G.Node))
12:05:24 <elliott_> -> (Gr Path (), Map (Pair Int Int, Pair Int Int) G.Node)
12:05:26 <elliott_> i think when you get function arrows this big
12:05:28 <elliott_> its time to reconsider your code
12:06:30 <elliott_> i think im just going to write my own code and forget you as a person exist
12:06:37 <elliott_> itll be therapeutic ok time to try this display list stuff
12:06:47 <Deewiant> That's not really relevant to your interests
12:07:16 <elliott_> it's writing this fucking game
12:07:24 <elliott_> i'm just not enough of an idiot to think that software rendering will have acceptable performance
12:07:32 <elliott_> Deewiant: trade secret (its elliottcraft)
12:07:48 <elliott_> im nihing entire million dollar products
12:08:31 <elliott_> hmm... how do I render some points with display lists
12:08:36 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:08:42 <elliott_> hi oerjan im failing at opengl/haskell
12:09:12 <oerjan> ic. well i only know some of the latter part.
12:11:31 <elliott_> GL.defineNewList GL.CompileAndExecute $ do -- GL.Points $ do
12:11:31 <elliott_> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (0::GL.GLint) 0
12:11:31 <elliott_> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (99::GL.GLdouble) 99
12:11:33 <elliott_> Deewiant: well that is not right
12:13:08 <Deewiant> I'm gone, server's still up in case you lose your local copy -->
12:17:31 <elliott_> Deewiant: youre just as bad as me
12:17:38 <Deewiant> elliott_: Like said, half-evil
12:17:57 <elliott_> Deewiant: but that's begin/end :<
12:18:07 <Deewiant> Yes, but it's put in a display list
12:19:47 <elliott_> Deewiant: i dont understand your ways..............................
12:19:54 <elliott_> do you know what these display object things are btw i honestly have no idea
12:20:26 <Deewiant> A display list is something like a compiled sequence of opengl commands
12:21:31 <elliott_> i mean the things that are totally unevil
12:22:22 <Deewiant> I think the least unevil thing these days would be writing your stuff with OpenCL or equivalent and compiling it to a shader
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12:22:33 <Deewiant> But no, I don't really know anything
12:23:03 <Deewiant> His head apparently exploded, so I'm really leaving now -->
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12:24:17 <elliott> 12:22:22: <Deewiant> I think the least unevil thing these days would be writing your stuff with OpenCL or equivalent and compiling it to a shader
12:24:26 <elliott> why is everything shaders :(
12:26:50 <oerjan> i never avoid no double negations
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12:38:07 <elliott> sdls method of doing centred windows:.
12:40:49 <oerjan> least unevil is much less uninteresting
12:40:54 <elliott> i still have no idea how to draw a cube :)
12:41:13 <elliott> Vertex3 and primitivemodes = Quads?
12:42:00 <Deewiant> Triangle strip is probably better
12:42:37 <elliott> Deewiant: that is what i am afraid of :(
12:43:00 <elliott> why is everything triangles :(
12:43:30 <Deewiant> Then again I'm not too clever when it comes to this stuff, YMMV
12:44:21 <elliott> Deewiant: this is like one of my GREATEST FEARS
12:45:26 <Deewiant> But you know, software rendering sucks etc
12:48:33 <elliott> Deewiant: wouldnt it be hilarious
12:48:36 <elliott> if software rendering ended up being like
12:48:46 <elliott> i mean id want to kill myself
12:51:31 <CakeProphet> YEAH SO YOU KNOW THOSE RECTANGLES AND STUFF?
12:52:24 <oerjan> twice the hate, twice the area
12:54:41 <elliott> Deewiant: oerjan: http://i.imgur.com/oo9oH.png
13:01:37 <oerjan> looks more like the complement of a triangle to me
13:03:13 <CakeProphet> it's a triangle and a complement. Well, it could also be a complement of a triangle and its complement.
13:07:26 <Gregor> elliott: You want to make a game with CUBES and you make a TRIANGLE.
13:07:32 <elliott> Gregor: this is a joke right
13:07:43 <elliott> im pretty sure the cubes in minecraft are made out of a bunch of triangles
13:08:03 <elliott> Gregor: maybe ill make them spheres
13:08:13 <elliott> in some weird-ass fuck geometry where spheres can have spheres next to them
13:08:16 <elliott> uncountably infinite spheres
13:08:53 <elliott> im actually kind of weirded out by opengls coordinate system
13:08:59 <elliott> the size of my window is distorting all shapes...
13:09:05 <elliott> i guess i do some camera magic to fix that though
13:09:05 <Sgeo> I should learn OpenGL perhaps
13:09:30 <Gregor> Sgeo: You should learn to stop saying "I should learn <thing> maybe" and then never learning it.
13:10:12 <elliott> HOW DO YOU EVEN PLACE THESE TRIANGLES OMG
13:10:26 <elliott> FUCK ITS TURNED INTO A SQUARE
13:11:05 <Gregor> Play the violin, elliott!
13:13:19 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/ZMCbo.png
13:13:21 <CakeProphet> I know in XNA the coordinate system runs has the top-left corner as the origin, which is somewhat weird.
13:14:55 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0::GL.GLdouble) 0 0
13:14:55 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0::GL.GLdouble) 0.5 0
13:14:55 <elliott> GL.color (GL.Color3 (0::GL.GLbyte) maxBound maxBound)
13:14:55 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0.5::GL.GLdouble) 0.5 0
13:14:57 <elliott> how does that even do that
13:15:01 <CakeProphet> ...which troll is it that types like that?
13:16:14 <Sgeo> CakeProphet, Tavros
13:16:16 <lambdabot> Bad argument to flag count, expected argument of type POS, got "bitch"
13:16:16 <lambdabot> For details on correct flags pass --help
13:16:18 <elliott> ?hoogle --count=bitch FUCK YOU
13:16:19 <lambdabot> --count=20 "--count=bitch FUCK YOU"
13:16:20 <elliott> ?hoogle --count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE
13:16:21 <elliott> ?hoogle --count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE ASS
13:16:22 <elliott> ?hoogle --count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE ASS CRAP
13:16:22 <elliott> ?hoogle --count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE ASS CRAP SHIT
13:16:23 <lambdabot> --count=20 "--count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE"
13:16:29 <lambdabot> --count=20 "--count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE ASS"
13:16:35 <lambdabot> --count=20 "--count=bitch FUCK YOU DIE ASS CRAP"
13:16:39 <lambdabot> Plugin `hoogle' failed with: thread killed
13:18:00 <oerjan> <elliott> in some weird-ass fuck geometry where spheres can have spheres next to them <-- ye olde L^\infty metric
13:18:18 <elliott> oerjan: is it actually possible say its true
13:19:28 <CakeProphet> 't you have spheres next to sphere in good ol' euclidean geometry?
13:19:59 <CakeProphet> hmmm, what, no. This goes against my intuition.
13:20:32 <elliott> wow you mean itd be non-euclidean NO SHIT
13:21:00 <CakeProphet> though I guess I've never interacted with two perfect Euclidean spheres before.
13:22:10 <CakeProphet> but I'm pretty sure balls can touch. (So much ennuendo I don't know how I keep it up)
13:22:26 <oerjan> elliott: the joke is that L^\infty spheres look like what you usually call cubes >:)
13:23:08 <elliott> oerjan: invent me a geometry where a sphere can be totally packed on every side with infinite other spheres
13:26:02 <oerjan> i suspect those would look like cubes too
13:27:31 <elliott> oerjan: um cubes cant be packed with infinite other cubes on their sides
13:28:07 <oerjan> hm you want something fractal
13:28:33 <elliott> in minecraft, you can put a cube on every side of another cube
13:28:35 <quintopia> elliott: they can in four dimensions!
13:28:39 <elliott> in spherecraft, you need to be able to put a sphere on every side of another sphere
13:28:43 <elliott> thus infinite spheres on a sphere
13:29:34 <quintopia> elliott: do you play the circle in a band?
13:29:47 <elliott> yes im a professional circlist
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13:30:49 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/homestuck/comments/ia2nm/so_theres_this_rumor_going_around_about_eoa5/
13:30:59 <quintopia> wonder if there's a 3D version of a mudflake...
13:32:29 <elliott> http://www.davidjayjordan.com/SexualTesselation.html what
13:33:01 <elliott> http://www.davidjayjordan.com/MathematicalProofDesign1.html
13:33:30 <quintopia> it looks like that guy is trying to tesselate space with TIMECUBE
13:39:03 <Sgeo> Not sleeping last night was a bad idea
13:39:14 <CakeProphet> not sleeping is usually a bad idea unless it's required/.
13:39:30 <CakeProphet> as sleep is pretty vital to your overall well-being
13:39:43 <CakeProphet> speaking of which, I'm going to go to sleep.
13:39:54 <CakeProphet> but anyways, q and e should move you along the 4th axis.
13:40:18 <Sgeo> I could have gone to sleep earlier but I can't now
13:40:45 <CakeProphet> food for thought on the crafting. Or maybe... thought for food? or just thought for thought? fuck it. sleep time.
13:42:50 <Sgeo> This is one hot plain agel
13:47:36 <Sgeo> I'm going to figure out how to reverse Life, although surely it's been done before given the existence of search programs
13:52:30 <Sgeo> elliott, if I make it nondeterministic or sort of store all possibilities...
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14:00:29 <elliott> Sgeo: you realise the searchers just look for random patterns
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14:04:00 <Vorpal> elliott, through the foot
14:04:07 <elliott> how do i draw cube with opengl
14:04:16 <Vorpal> elliott, buggered if I remember
14:04:22 <Vorpal> elliott, well that is easy
14:04:23 <elliott> GL.renderPrimitive GL.TriangleStrip $ do
14:04:23 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0::GL.GLdouble) 0 0
14:04:23 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0::GL.GLdouble) 0.5 0
14:04:23 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0.5::GL.GLdouble) 0.5 0
14:04:23 <elliott> GL.color (GL.Color3 (0::GL.GLbyte) maxBound maxBound)
14:04:24 <elliott> GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex3 (0.5::GL.GLdouble) 0.5 0.5
14:04:33 <Vorpal> each face could be two triangles
14:04:48 <elliott> yes but it turns out i do not understand coordinates
14:04:53 <Vorpal> elliott, don't look at me, this doesn't look like opengl in C
14:05:00 <elliott> renderprimitive = GL_BEGIN
14:05:07 <Vorpal> what are the coordinates then
14:05:09 <elliott> the binding is pretty light its not hard to see
14:05:12 <elliott> Vorpal: um in the vertexes
14:05:20 <elliott> GL.GLdouble is just to get the types right
14:05:22 <Vorpal> oh you have ::GL.GLdouble, right
14:05:42 <Vorpal> elliott, well they are x,y,z or something like that, I don't remember the order
14:05:58 <Vorpal> I haven't been doing opengl for over 2 years
14:07:07 <Vorpal> elliott, so what is it you don't understand?
14:07:51 <Vorpal> elliott, so you understand it all?
14:08:02 <elliott> no, but this is going nowhere
14:08:12 <Vorpal> elliott, well I'm not sure what you are asking
14:08:17 <Vorpal> try a more specific question
14:08:30 <elliott> i can't get the vertices right to give me a cube because i'm retarded :D
14:08:50 <Vorpal> elliott, oh I know that issue, I had issues with working out the coordinates too I remember.
14:09:11 <Vorpal> elliott, it is easiest if you consider it from the point of view of linear algebra
14:09:14 <elliott> i keep getting triangles stretching off into nowhere... no... make a cube...
14:09:28 <Vorpal> that is, the vectors as column matrices
14:09:51 * elliott tries to get the drawing rotated so that hell be able to see the cube isometrically
14:10:27 <elliott> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-Rectangles.html
14:10:34 <elliott> wonder if its faster than triangles
14:10:35 <Vorpal> elliott, for that you need to change the matrix defining the viewing frustum iirc
14:10:59 <Vorpal> elliott, likely if you need to do a cube
14:11:45 <Vorpal> elliott, wait they are all in the z=0 plane
14:11:54 <Vorpal> elliott, I guess this is for 2D usage
14:12:59 <Vorpal> of course I am. I'm me after all :P
14:13:01 <elliott> i still dont know why they removed begin/end :(
14:13:23 <Vorpal> elliott, they did? That is new
14:14:02 <Vorpal> elliott, or is that about the haskell interface?
14:14:30 <elliott> Vorpal: in opengl four yeah
14:14:41 <elliott> you're meant to use shaders or those buffer object things
14:14:51 <elliott> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-BufferObjects.html cry
14:15:03 <elliott> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/OpenGL/2.4.0.1/doc/html/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL-VertexArrays.html wh;at ttt
14:15:27 <Vorpal> elliott, I have no clue
14:16:11 <Vorpal> elliott, do opengl 2 then
14:18:59 <Vorpal> elliott, it is meant to be fast, not nice
14:19:47 <elliott> cant appreciate a fast program i cant write
14:20:15 <Vorpal> elliott, I heard directx is easier to write :P
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14:34:35 <Vorpal> elliott, this makes perfect sense to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertex_Buffer_Object
14:36:00 <Gregor> elliott: Where's spherecraft?
14:36:07 <elliott> Gregor: oerjan ran away before he invented the jommetry.
14:36:23 <elliott> BTW, Elliottcraft still needs a decent (code)name >_>
14:37:25 <Gregor> Can you imagine the sheer horsepower that spherecraft would take? X-D
14:37:38 <Vorpal> Gregor, what is that in oxpower?
14:37:55 <Gregor> With spheres that behave exactly like normal spheres, and are super-high-friction so you can actually stack them and such.
14:38:20 <elliott> Gregor: It would be kind of impossible what with the uncountably infinite thing :P
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14:38:32 <elliott> It'd have to be a ten thousand sided object instead.
14:38:43 <Vorpal> elliott, make it out of atoms
14:38:59 <elliott> i know ill just make a new universe
14:39:04 <elliott> im gonna kill Vorpal in it
14:39:11 <elliott> fuc;k problem of evil stops me doing nanything
14:44:13 <elliott> theology is basically based on god maknig the universe and discovering all sorts of semantic restrictions
14:44:22 <elliott> until he finally says fuck it and stops trying to let his presence be known
14:44:26 <elliott> i call this type system deism
14:57:00 <Gregor> Daaaaaaaaaaaamn it's expensive to fly to the UK.
14:57:55 <elliott> you might be a spic we have to be careful
14:58:47 <Gregor> In retrospect, it's cheaper than it was to fly to Paris, I'm just already $3,000 in the hole from this trip so diving in further isn't fun X-D
15:06:58 <Gregor> Airfare taxes and fees $558.80
15:07:04 <Gregor> Taxes and fees: Nearly equal to the airfare
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15:27:57 <Gregor> Same way babby formed.
15:32:09 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/nXI2y.png
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16:24:39 <Vorpal> elliott, looks like a nice flag
16:26:45 <Vorpal> elliott, kind of like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval_Ensign_of_Denmark.svg
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17:28:46 <elliott> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Brainbrain&curid=3659&diff=23442&oldid=22103
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18:03:50 <zzo38> You can make this http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?google in dc without any loops.
18:05:28 <zzo38> (at least in GNU dc)
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19:34:06 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, wait, why are you going on about sphere packing.
19:34:06 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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19:42:48 <oerjan> <quintopia> do octahedrons tesselate space?
19:43:09 <oerjan> an interesting question, as those are the spheres of the L^1 metric...
19:43:33 <oerjan> being dual to cubes, one would think it likely
19:43:58 <elliott> oerjan: http://i.imgur.com/KH1z9.png im good cube draw
19:44:22 <oerjan> (L^1 and L^\infty also have a sort of dual relationship, although not as strong as for L^p spaces strictly between 1 and \infty)
19:45:02 <oerjan> elliott: i don't think that is a metric. hm that would be harmonic sum...
19:45:34 <oerjan> elliott: L^0 would be somewhat degenerate
19:46:49 <oerjan> elliott: in case you don't know, the L^p norm for most p has the form (x_1^p + x_2^p + ... + x_n^p)^(1/p)
19:47:04 <elliott> <-- productive irc contributor
19:47:06 <oerjan> you may recognize L^2 as ordinary euclidean metric
19:47:50 <oerjan> * (|x_1|^p + |x_2|^p + ... + |x_n|^p)^(1/p)
19:48:12 <oerjan> you don't need to absolute values or p an even natural number, naturally
19:48:20 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: yeah iirc
19:48:53 <oerjan> alternatively, ||(x_1,...,x_n)||_\infty = max(|x_1|,...,|x_n|)
19:49:35 <elliott> i think ive heard of linfty
19:50:04 <elliott> did you know that im a robot
19:50:19 <oerjan> and for p<1 i think some things break down, although i'm not sure if everything does
19:50:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, m < n → m^p << m^p for large p, so yeah, it's obvious.
19:53:40 <oerjan> elliott: however p=-1 is still _interesting_ since it's related to harmonic mean
19:54:29 <elliott> ~~ livin in harmony w/ mean you ~~
19:56:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I wish there was a simple way of plotting the unit circle in L_n metrics in Mathematica.
19:57:29 <elliott> all mathematica can do is play games and have children
19:58:51 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp_space implies that for 0<p<1 you don't get a metric from the same formula, but you do if you drop the final p'th root
20:08:18 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipse.html might help
20:08:33 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:08:55 <oerjan> there's a mathematica notebook link
20:10:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Although it's a bit annoying, doing it by reductio ad Wolfram.
20:12:26 <oerjan> "In 1968, when negotiators in Paris for the Vietnam War could not agree on the shape of the negotiating table, Balinski, Kieron Underwood and Holt suggested a superelliptical table in a letter to the New York Times."
20:13:03 <elliott> YOUR MOM is superelliptical
20:13:09 <elliott> directed at Phantom_Hoover
20:13:41 <elliott> they should have made sphere table
20:14:51 <oerjan> they could have the chairs bolted to the inside of a half-spher bowl. and occasionally the bolts could break.
20:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, for the days when he would speak of how he grooked this and that.
20:15:33 <oerjan> piet hein grokked a lot, we may assume
20:15:59 <elliott> ill grok my fist into ur face (@ all u punk ass nerds)
20:16:19 <elliott> wouldn't it be awesome if someone came in here while i was like this and didn't realise i was being sarcastic all the time
20:16:32 <elliott> and wondered why i wasn't banned yet, maybe you too are wondering this same thing now????????
20:18:11 <elliott> =gay ass loser bookreader club....
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20:38:24 <oerjan> :t Prelude.intersperse
20:38:24 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `Prelude.intersperse'
20:38:32 <lambdabot> Data.ByteString intersperse :: Word8 -> ByteString -> ByteString
20:38:32 <lambdabot> Data.List intersperse :: a -> [a] -> [a]
20:38:32 <lambdabot> Data.ByteString.Char8 intersperse :: Char -> ByteString -> ByteString
20:40:54 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&curid=2038&diff=23453&oldid=22913
20:41:08 <elliott> oerjan: HAPPEN TO BE WORKING ON A PROGRAM DO WE
20:41:51 <quintopia> i'm not surprised to hear they dont tesselate. i couldnt visualize a way to do it.
20:43:09 <oerjan> elliott: um ">> " is pretty much standard if anything is
20:44:15 <oerjan> elliott: cpressey's correction looks reasonable to me...
20:44:25 <zzo38> I made the copy of the GNU GPL v3 with Plain TeX. Will FSF accept it?
20:44:47 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/HJOh
20:45:08 <elliott> the original mistake is what is unforgivable
20:46:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I was parsing that code with the >>> outside the quotes and I was getting confused.
20:46:13 <lambdabot> forall (cat :: * -> * -> *) a b c. (Control.Category.Category cat) => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c
20:46:53 <elliott> :T (W.r[paad,aspdwqprmqrpowmepwoqje
20:47:06 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
20:47:07 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: HAPPEN TO BE WORKING ON A PROGRAM DO WE <-- just looking briefly at the "google" golf zzo38 mentioned
20:47:08 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "(life"
20:47:10 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "(life)"
20:47:14 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "parse"
20:47:16 <elliott> ?. . . type type type (life)
20:47:17 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "parse"
20:47:19 <elliott> ?. . . type type type type (life)
20:47:20 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "parse"
20:47:22 <elliott> ?. . . type type type type type type type type a (life)
20:47:23 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "parse"
20:47:47 <oerjan> my first try was 52 chars while several others have shorter ones, and it occured to me that intersperse might help if it were in the Prelude
20:47:57 <elliott> oerjan: maybe something monadic
20:48:18 <oerjan> elliott: well my first try used interact
20:48:32 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char -> [b]'
20:48:39 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
20:49:24 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m [a]
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20:52:31 <elliott> 00:40:40: <crystal-cola> there's something funny going on with the 17s (well maybe it's just because that's the smallest prime other than 2)
20:53:25 <oerjan> elliott: i remember enough of that discussion to note that is entirely reasonable in context
20:53:34 <olsner> I also forget 3,5,7,11 and 13 now and then :)
20:54:26 <oerjan> elliott: it's not like crystal-cola needs that kind of assistance
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20:59:22 <oerjan> elliott: ok monadic was a good idea, [1..n]>>"o" is shorter than n`replicate`'o'
20:59:38 <elliott> > let n = 9 in "go"++[1..n]>>"o"++"ogle"
20:59:39 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
20:59:43 <oerjan> now i'm just one char longer than the winners
20:59:49 <elliott> > let n = 9 in "go"++([1..n]>>"o")++"ogle"
21:00:00 <elliott> oerjan: hm what's your current solution?
21:00:09 <oerjan> main=interact$(\n->'g':([1..n]>>"o")++"gle").read
21:00:22 <oerjan> :t interact$(\n->'g':([1..n]>>"o")++"gle").read
21:00:44 <elliott> ?pl interact$(\n->'g':([1..n]>>"o")++"gle").read
21:00:44 <lambdabot> interact (('g' :) . (++ "gle") . (>> "o") . enumFromTo 1 . read)
21:00:46 <oerjan> Lymee: yeah, mainly just checking if i can tie with the top
21:01:00 <oerjan> with 7 others tied it seems unlikely to beat :P
21:01:42 <oerjan> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?google
21:01:49 <oerjan> it's a very old one btw
21:02:16 <Lymee> print"g%sgle"%"o"*input()
21:02:19 <Lymee> First thing that comes to mind.
21:02:35 <oerjan> Lymee: oh i'm sure the python ones are tiny
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21:03:05 <oerjan> Lymee: in fact you just tied with those
21:03:20 <Lymee> Order of operation stuff to sort out.
21:04:08 <elliott> link me to that graphical version of tswett's chinese remainder theorem clcok you made
21:04:17 <oerjan> Lymee: i'd say you're also unlikely to beat them, with 19 tied at the top for a years old golfing
21:05:03 <oerjan> Lymee: hm? yours is 25 as are the winners
21:05:04 <tswett> elliott: well, I have a textual version of that.
21:05:09 <zzo38> oerjan: Send what you have anyways, you can send a better solution later if you figure it out.
21:05:10 <Lymee> I had order of operations issues.
21:05:14 <elliott> tswett: yes but i want fizzie's :D
21:05:15 <Lymee> print"g%sgle"%("o"*input())
21:07:05 <elliott> hmm related to http://zem.fi/~fis/crcsq.html
21:07:28 <elliott> http://zem.fi/~fis/crcbar.html
21:07:54 <fizzie> I *just* located those.
21:08:30 <elliott> the crcsq one is the bestest
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21:11:59 <oerjan> zzo38: i don't see the point in sending a worse one to a contest which is 4 years old and has 7 tied at the top
21:12:38 <elliott> oerjan: hey oerjan implement my ghcwishlist... :(
21:12:52 <elliott> - IdiomBrackets, MultipleOperatorSections, MLModules
21:12:58 <elliott> lemme know when they're done
21:13:13 <oerjan> hm MultipleOperatorSections sounds like something i've wanted
21:13:43 <zzo38> oerjan: It is OK if you do not want to send.
21:13:55 <elliott> oerjan: it'd also make repeated compositions nicer
21:13:56 <oerjan> elliott: um those are already legal if you don't clash with precedence
21:14:03 <elliott> (a . b . c .) rather than ((a . b . c) .)
21:14:25 <elliott> basically generalising sections to be able to have a whole chain
21:14:25 <oerjan> that's _also_ legal :P
21:14:34 <elliott> <elliott> (a . b . c .) rather than ((a . b . c) .)
21:14:54 <oerjan> elliott: yeah that one has annoyed me before
21:15:10 <elliott> IdiomBrackets and MLModules should be obvious I hope
21:15:15 <elliott> those typekinds that are being worked on
21:15:30 <elliott> that unifies data and datakinds so that you can do type-level programming freely
21:15:42 <elliott> enslave anyone to do that since it is already happening
21:16:15 <lambdabot> The operator `Data.Functor.<$>' [infixl 4] of a section
21:16:42 <oerjan> > (sin<$>cos<$>tan<$>) 1
21:16:43 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (f a))
21:16:43 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `e_11' at <int...
21:17:06 <oerjan> > (sin<$>cos<$>tan<$>) exp 1
21:18:01 <oerjan> yes, because <$> is infixl rather than infixr
21:18:13 <Lymee> >(sin$cos$tan$exp)1
21:18:17 <Lymee> > (sin$cos$tan$exp)1
21:18:27 <Lymee> > (sin$cos$tan$)exp 1
21:18:28 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Base.$' [infixr 0] of a section
21:18:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Lymee, what on earth made you think that would have interesting behaviour.
21:18:43 <Lymee> Phantom_Hoover, I was seeing what oerjan was testing.
21:19:13 <oerjan> Lymee: your first one only works because of lambdabot's Floating instances for functions, i think
21:19:30 <elliott> oerjan: also ghc wishlist: record system that uses fclabels or lenses instead of the crap we have now
21:19:45 <elliott> that would make me pretty happy
21:19:53 <elliott> also maybe the replacement of String with Text would be nice...
21:20:02 <elliott> and the generalisation of ++ etc. to some kind of container class
21:20:09 <elliott> (yeah yeah, i am aware of monoid :))
21:20:19 <lambdabot> forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m
21:22:58 <olsner> elliott: you should go in #haskell and blame cale for caleskell, ISTR he likes that
21:23:45 <elliott> olsner: i do that on a daily basis or so
21:23:50 <elliott> i think cale may dislike me dunno why
21:26:07 <lambdabot> forall a. (Read a) => String -> IO a
21:26:55 <oerjan> !haskell readIO "what does this button do?"
21:27:20 <oerjan> !haskell main = readIO "what does this button do?"
21:27:46 <oerjan> !haskell main = readIO "what does this button do?" :: IO Int
21:27:51 <EgoBot> input.21959.hs: user error (Prelude.readIO: no parse)
21:28:13 * oerjan wonders what that string is for
21:28:22 <monqy> "The readIO function is similar to read except that it signals parse failure to the IO monad instead of terminating the program."
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21:29:18 <olsner> hmm, but IO can catch errors just as well as it can catch exceptions, can't it?
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21:29:44 <oerjan> olsner: in ghc yes, not the standard
21:33:16 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Base.>>' [infixl 1] of a section
21:38:32 <oerjan> oh, putting read outside the lambda was a mistake, now i'm tying with the top
21:39:00 <oerjan> :t interact$ \n->'g':([1..read n]>>"o")++"gle"
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23:05:31 <zzo38> I decided to use a different set of units than TeX some are different, I have: pt bp in cm mm P0 p0 q em ex
23:06:49 <zzo38> Can you make ink that small?
23:07:49 <CakeProphet> I guess not. But it could still be used as a unit with ridiculously fine-grained precision.
23:08:51 <zzo38> The precision is already 1/4736286.72 inch (you can use numbers after the decimal point too), and I don't know of any printing equipment that has that much resolution.
23:09:32 <zzo38> But I suppose in programs for designing physics stuff you might have Planck lengths as one of the units for really precision.
23:09:49 <zzo38> What is the most resolution of any printer you have seen or know of?
23:10:42 <zzo38> Four million dots per inch? I don't think so.
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23:23:16 <lambdabot> forall a. (Ord a) => a -> a -> Ordering
23:28:39 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Classes.compare' [infixl 9] of a section
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