< 1306281637 633332 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's front page was weird in 2006 < 1306281647 621789 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a copy of it in this directory for no obvious reason... < 1306281664 62180 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306281824 394025 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh dagbladet.no has a title translating as "Judgement day may still be close - as now "Duke Nukem Forever" is finished." < 1306281861 344543 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stole my joke CRY < 1306281869 461035 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to find thesef iles am I :( < 1306281873 183842 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]these files < 1306281880 916497 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you put a good word in with the synchronicity gods for me < 1306281897 662251 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you think they listen to ME? < 1306281915 45252 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Synchronicity Gods; Please give Elliott Hird a clue. Amen. < 1306281920 41713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ( < 1306281926 261197 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said i wanted a clue < 1306281932 539949 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy being clueless < 1306281948 126450 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Ian guy sure talks a lot < 1306281949 116508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no they don't listen to me, that's true. You should be safe. < 1306281959 860723 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not. < 1306282083 361393 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sucks :[ < 1306282205 94083 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note my landlady chose the best possible week to take a vacation in mallorca... < 1306282226 551284 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people say mallorca? weird < 1306282235 304083 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not see her again in a while. < 1306282242 107177 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1306282269 296403 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's how it's spelled, isn't it < 1306282350 567441 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always see majorca < 1306282355 867962 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp article title agrees with me < 1306282359 382955 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majorca (or Mallorca) (Catalan: Mallorca, IPA: [məˈʎɔrkə] or [məˈʎɔrcə]; Spanish: Mallorca, IPA: [maˈʎorka]) < 1306282376 222836 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has she gone to Deutschland too? :D < 1306282446 590398 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1306282546 16180 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just generate a list of every single file on the drive to find it < 1306282652 598912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the majorca spelling is not used in norwegian, neither is majorka which would be the complete retranscription (and which seems to be used in polish) < 1306282719 728270 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably does not have an old enough connection to norway to get a norwegianized name < 1306282813 288131 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306282820 365339 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone say hi to my old old lisp bot < 1306282823 332680 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9 < 1306282823 627612 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1306282823 979202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1306282826 733938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> () < 1306282827 33825 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1306282827 287761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1306282829 507649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1306282830 4623 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306282833 810396 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good prefix choice < 1306282845 414341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (<) < 1306282845 559429 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err) need at least 2 args, got 0 < 1306282846 13355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a -> GHC.Bool.Bool) < 1306282846 111921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arisin... < 1306282856 204491 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (set x 9) < 1306282856 285409 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err) unbound: x < 1306282856 904806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `set' < 1306282858 713604 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define x 9) < 1306282858 878360 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1306282859 310340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `define' < 1306282862 967513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (undefine x) < 1306282863 369287 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :None < 1306282863 628701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `undefine' < 1306282865 444187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefine < 1306282865 588560 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#native-function:9 < 1306282865 979302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `undefine' < 1306282868 959290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (gc) < 1306282869 133736 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err) unbound: gc < 1306282869 605292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `gc' < 1306282872 885121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1306282877 864032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bound gc < 1306282890 781382 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306282933 201866 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306282935 761617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (gc) < 1306282936 161499 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(47 47 27) < 1306282936 418728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `gc' < 1306282947 603833 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :### running gc with 47 items < 1306282947 684748 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :### gc done, 25 items now < 1306282950 552731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what on earth it freed? < 1306282952 216652 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> _prev < 1306282952 761343 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(py err) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'val' < 1306282952 864445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `_prev' < 1306282957 154270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exit < 1306282957 677667 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#native-function:2b < 1306282957 758864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `exit' < 1306282961 843560 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (exit) < 1306282962 273451 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306282962 456996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `exit' < 1306282969 311035 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306282974 218978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (lambda) < 1306282974 576480 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err) need at least 2 args, got 0 < 1306282974 835622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `lambda' < 1306282976 292625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (lambda () x) < 1306282976 686276 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#function:41 < 1306282976 870231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `lambda' < 1306283013 115983 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define hog (lambda (n) (if (> n 9999) () (cons 'x (hog (+ n 1)))))) < 1306283013 462536 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#function:69 < 1306283013 649490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1306283013 731430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1306283018 524010 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (hog 0) < 1306283018 935963 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(py err) AttributeError: 'bool' object has no attribute 'val' < 1306283019 151898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `hog' < 1306283022 957588 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1306283028 194584 :lithpbot!~lithp@95.149.228.7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306283029 410141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL < 1306283114 467449 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306283186 174071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would annoy Vorpal to no end if he could see it < 1306283420 155089 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306283446 339165 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306283446 421240 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306283455 158559 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306283460 413322 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :honk < 1306283466 574599 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HONK < 1306283650 522970 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to use tunes < 1306283731 164101 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306283744 325898 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tunes are like flowers < 1306283753 816376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mayhaps < 1306283755 113267 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306283782 681625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flowers in summer are like idiots in spring THIS IS FACTUAL < 1306283929 138752 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306283936 636808 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1306283990 727495 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306284882 865017 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306285297 748141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1306285299 56281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5] Please act expeditiously to remove the file-downloads found at the following URLs: < 1306285299 138277 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileserve.com/file/cWAKEDR < 1306285299 541238 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1306285301 433307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Sony, to GitHub < 1306285311 990077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we'll get right on it!" < 1306285515 558179 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gone < 1306285516 648357 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1306285571 659555 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with ps3 homebrew it seems < 1306285577 597888 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the rest of the links in https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2011-01-27-sony.markdown < 1306285584 537355 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are less humorous as they actually link to github < 1306285585 383752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306285780 879636 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306285794 26575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306287827 866266 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306288499 198849 :h[a]gb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d93299e2.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306288507 334118 :h[a]gb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d93299e2.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1306288687 637662 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files are gone forever rip < 1306289190 262322 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d93299e2.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306289750 943774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is with the full−width Latin, anyways? < 1306290498 582112 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backwards compatjewbility. < 1306290504 355269 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Shift-JIS art would break without it. :p < 1306290730 141305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A 4.7 GB DVD-R full of one-time-pad data, if shredded into particles 1 mm² in size, leaves over 100 kibibits of (admittedly hard to recover, but not impossibly so) data on each particle." < 1306290748 556210 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever actually recovered from those particles < 1306290912 174144 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306291382 569183 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306291539 284169 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306292911 773942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Shift-JIS art breaks without the right *fonts*... < 1306293068 594783 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(many of the characters used in Shift-JIS art are actually proportional, and so the art assumes the metrics of MS PGothic) < 1306293204 47499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IPAMonaPGothic also works) < 1306293253 476544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, the transcription is retarded; in Japanese, it's IPA モナーPゴシック) < 1306293550 841025 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's just the metrics right < 1306293573 420965 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipamonapgothic is the free one right < 1306293580 800243 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed to match the metrics < 1306293634 965850 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1306293661 329813 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole effort wouldn't be even slightly necessary if they used a monospace font. < 1306293672 568743 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLANDER < 1306293680 512783 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *no*, they had to use a freaking proportional font. < 1306293682 355401 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you find my old php code from oh-six pikhq i tried to today but i couldnt < 1306293687 744982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to laugh at it < 1306293704 752807 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When monospace actually is a decent approximation for Japanese text. < 1306293734 705474 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doing proper Japanese typesetting, however, is about on par with English typesetting in difficulty of getting right) < 1306293806 145785 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: rude :( < 1306293823 68519 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Sorry, but I have never even *seen* your old PHP code to my recollection. < 1306293830 683790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1306293838 322592 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should still find it though < 1306293851 594773 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not about to spelunk for something I would only wince at. < 1306293862 216425 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU INSULTING < 1306293862 686071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY < 1306293863 387953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLD < 1306293863 760060 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE < 1306293866 677729 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good decision < 1306293874 211305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to stare at it ;_; < 1306293880 582004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i found every php file on my old drive < 1306293881 517476 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, "PHP code" is what makes it worthy of insulting. < 1306293886 94623 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of them < 1306293887 159195 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NONE OF THEM < 1306293889 197540 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ones im looking for < 1306293891 906827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im sad :( < 1306293898 165318 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i deleted them but i don't know why i'd do something so horrible < 1306293901 322031 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh no it was especially bad php code < 1306293909 768358 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not really understand sql or anything iehter < 1306293917 304949 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it was average PHP code. < 1306293932 893137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306293933 928118 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe me < 1306293934 476015 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse < 1306293939 393480 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was ten and a huge idiot < 1306293948 54017 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had started coding two years earlier, also in php < 1306293955 379651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my very first php script used an Access database < 1306293956 477692 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not joking < 1306293964 363455 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy *fuck* you were young when you got in here. Just saying. :P < 1306293979 506548 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like twelve when i started coming here? < 1306293986 510659 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe eleven for a short while. but i didn't really talk much then ;D < 1306293989 400472 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that. < 1306293995 920933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd got over php, is the point < 1306294000 320819 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my debilitating illness had ended < 1306294002 132512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Not that I should criticise too much. < 1306294011 533879 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been IRC'ing since like 9 or 10. < 1306294026 765517 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh me too i just didn't come here until i was a bit less of an idiot < 1306294031 904680 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank go < 1306294032 413354 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1306294035 10467 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a bit) < 1306294066 58490 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I would've been, what, 16? < 1306294086 141764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think you were like AT LEAST twenty one in two thousand and seven < 1306294087 31713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true facts < 1306294104 720206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had people assuming that for over a decade now. < 1306294121 14982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone assumed i was like twenty in two thousand and six because i knew a lot about coding < 1306294121 744208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time < 1306294124 832701 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took it as a compliment < 1306294125 184262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1306294128 94273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realise that person was an idiot < 1306294137 972282 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For quite a bit less time, I've given that impression IRL. < 1306294151 194573 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4, 5 years?) < 1306294153 660418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still look twelve :) < 1306294169 290317 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my darkest fear is that i will never not look twelve. ok not really but this is just ridiculous. < 1306294172 986836 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was contacted by a Microsoft recruiter around the age of 15 < 1306294185 129760 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Like to call back in 3 years?" < 1306294186 296698 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you should have lead them on < 1306294195 386757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but let's be honest here, microsoft recruiters contact everybody < 1306294213 323028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they contacted esr without even reading a single word he wrote, or they'd realise he's a raging shithead and not bother < 1306294226 27697 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They contacted *esr*? < 1306294227 240513 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. < 1306294234 702699 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1306294236 78675 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you had bothered to do five seconds of background checking, you < 1306294236 210638 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have discovered that I am the guy who responded to Craig < 1306294236 292338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mundie's "Who are you?" with "I'm your worst nightmare", and that I've < 1306294236 292533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare < 1306294236 292634 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since about 1997." < 1306294241 177041 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- esr, neopagan and self-proclaimed sex god < 1306294255 845474 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* esr. < 1306294258 552683 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like they found the ego button in his soul and pressed it until he exploded < 1306294262 906928 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=208 < 1306294264 965265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if I was at all interested, maybe < 1306294277 411522 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a job at ms would probably be nice, if you could sleep at night < 1306294289 135760 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd depend on what I was doing at MS, quite honestly. < 1306294304 217799 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a job working on windows might actually be interesting < 1306294312 237761 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /fun/ necessarily but... interesting < 1306294324 472998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd probably just sit there all day and read the code for fun... < 1306294334 230388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncontrollably < 1306294337 750665 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Even *there*, it'd depend. < 1306294337 934014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1306294343 619715 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd probably have huge trouble resisting the urge to copy it all to a usb stick < 1306294348 571604 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upload it < 1306294349 332498 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on the kernel could legitimately be interesting, TBH. < 1306294349 561733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge trouble < 1306294367 683976 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: man can you imagine their development cycle though < 1306294373 50716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how long it takes to recompile windows after a change < 1306294375 702532 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on APIs would make me want to stab a bunch of developers. < 1306294381 549090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :booting a version of windows you modified would feel really weird < 1306294386 808728 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't feel like the kind of os you could do that to < 1306294394 788144 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the most part *not* developers in Microsoft, actually. < 1306294407 206377 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if theres one thing the Old New Thing teaches me its that theres no way the kernel team doesnt have to deal with that too < 1306294409 824840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps apostrophes are for losers < 1306294433 84214 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the downside is < 1306294436 223756 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to use windows < 1306294440 70980 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd be contributing to windows < 1306294461 928192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, from what I know of it, the kernel for Windows is *actually well-designed*. < 1306294476 425371 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well do you mean nt or win subsystem < 1306294485 871088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean NT. The *actual kernel*. < 1306294493 699472 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the windows subsystem is a kernel too, to be honest < 1306294499 790637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just at a higher level < 1306294527 852522 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, yeah, it is technically part of the kernel. < 1306294543 732265 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more like an overcomplicated system call compatibility layer. < 1306294553 604383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what a kernel is < 1306294571 391098 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I mean "like FreeBSD's Linux support" < 1306294580 662223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's what a kernel is < 1306294585 34694 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd's is small because they're quite close < 1306294607 680468 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a mapping between a foreign system call layer and a native one? < 1306294612 571037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a very strange notion of kernel. < 1306294630 484740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, except sometimes the native one involves some memory-mapped jiggery rather than an int/sysenter/etc. call < 1306296026 670842 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306297975 361652 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, raymond chen actually uses ie < 1306297997 32475 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less surprising than it would have been a few years ago. < 1306298011 704534 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but still < 1306298021 548572 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE at least seems to be a decent, tolerable browser now. < 1306298031 760796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but does anyone actually switch /to/ IE? < 1306298038 368925 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm worrying that he's never not used IE in his life now ;_; < 1306298047 420486 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in over a decade. < 1306298089 930616 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe "ive stopped using the netscapes it doesnt work with msn so im using the ies now" < 1306298094 517064 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, Netscape used to suck. < 1306298097 838452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i roleplaying the 90s properly < 1306298130 626168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, really, Netscape was *worse* than IE for a while. < 1306298140 417906 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1306298200 324764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2011/05/18/10165605.aspx#10165884 < 1306298200 888671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[In practice, the only time anybody set a nonstandard timeout was to set an extra annoying timeout. -Raymond] < 1306298201 743354 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1306298208 208526 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows starts ignoring parameters because they're only used to annoy people < 1306298234 981437 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We changed our API behavior because, y'know what, *you guys suck*." < 1306298268 755818 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time on the old new thing "in windows 8 requests to create a borderless window result in your application being surrounded by not one but TWO normal window decorations and an angry letter being mailed to your parents" < 1306298284 444990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and if it can PROVE that you're about to draw your own border, it kills the programmer immediately" < 1306298293 504493 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only. < 1306298306 148869 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, some programs *in Windows* do that. < 1306298313 396958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, at a minimum, WMP does.) < 1306298332 840832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but as we've established everyone at ms hates everyone in a different team < 1306298341 584902 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gui/office rivalry is potent < 1306298368 891014 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hatred is often justified. < 1306298389 839615 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet like half the kernel is working around bugs in lotus and office < 1306298439 546332 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good 7/8ths of the Windows team is probably working around application bugs. < 1306298451 515727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they seem to absolutely fellate backwards compatibility. < 1306298491 638370 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good for business < 1306298500 78669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you imagine the complaints theyd get if they broke old apps < 1306298503 873580 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To an extent. < 1306298546 619786 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so changing topic entirely, after reading that terrible new coding horror post im actually surprised that chrome doesnt update without restarting < 1306298557 201859 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that patching a running binary is not yet a solved problem < 1306298565 249318 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is interesting because it should be! < 1306298608 245961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Patching" a running binary is a solved problem. You "merely" serialise your state and restart! :P < 1306298622 380375 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but chrome updates every second < 1306298626 184675 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would get annoying < 1306298645 717866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it updates silently i am honestly surprised that it does not start running the new version instantly < 1306298673 124518 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm wondering if it's actually possible to do in-place updating with an updated() function that is called after the ptach < 1306298674 102109 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch < 1306298681 769694 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be since Chrome uses that fancy update format that uses symbolic addresses < 1306298689 314247 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like code is just going to jump around the place and be impossible < 1306298715 997211 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not done because it would require the browser to pause < 1306298729 107354 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: would it? I don't see what would take so long < 1306298742 679119 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could always wait until the user does nothing for a few seconds :-) < 1306298743 563870 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 1 second would annoy people with how frequently it updates < 1306298746 59830 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1306298761 806572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there are harder problems than that :P < 1306298770 595877 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I don't know how thorough their symbolic thing is < 1306298780 685881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you apply the patch to the running memory image without addresses invalidating? < 1306298808 745560 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then I think it could be as simple as doing that, then passing control over to an oops_you_just_updated() function, which I guess would have to handle the task of migrating data structures and updating the UI... < 1306298816 47774 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still quite manual i guess but it would be cool < 1306298891 58308 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every pointer pointing into code would need to be updated? < 1306298906 210811 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: i don't think so, that's why they invented their new patch format isn't it? < 1306298912 732039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well hm < 1306298913 697768 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the code still changes size < 1306298917 847395 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it fixes up the pointers itself < 1306298919 614576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean < 1306298921 935723 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :their patching function is just a really compressed diff < 1306298923 732063 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already do that patching already < 1306298927 200143 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses knowledge of the original function pointers < 1306298932 909884 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already do that patching already, to the binary < 1306298938 734442 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can do it to the in-memory image too < 1306298949 296536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could copy the memory image aside and do it to that so it could be swapped quicker < 1306298957 329954 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but what if a function suddenly changes its internal state? < 1306298961 695123 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is removed while it's being run? < 1306298972 294410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: well it'd have to restore the browser to the start of the event loop or whatever < 1306298979 983585 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1306298980 313224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if any functions are busy running it'd have to postpone it until it's at a predictable state < 1306298989 126547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my worry is that e.g. they insert a field in the middle of a class < 1306298992 624232 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all instances of that class need migrating < 1306298996 144892 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like sql migration but worse :) < 1306299005 32496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT WOULD BE SO COOL. < 1306299008 730947 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool! < 1306299012 178244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds like black magic stuff < 1306299030 268095 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that it's easy if you work at a higher level than machine code. < 1306299132 342267 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's write a browser in LUA < 1306299136 482148 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then on the fly updating is -really- easy! < 1306299139 408293 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its called Lua < 1306299144 245525 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(says the guy not capitalising) < 1306299147 158312 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lower case? < 1306299150 508868 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306299152 30878 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from the L < 1306299152 997121 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1306299153 912850 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the L is uppercase :P < 1306299173 572386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see how lua would make it any easier than any interpreted language < 1306299177 350802 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1306299178 965593 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier < 1306299180 502064 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not trivial < 1306299194 810372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you'll still have a bunch of values floating around without newly-added fields < 1306299207 860346 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your whole application sort of has to deal with things randomly being uninitialised for seeminlgy no reason < 1306299212 495207 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a rather awkward way to code < 1306299221 416515 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i guess for anything carrying state it would still be tough < 1306299232 67936 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that's functional you can plug and play but you can already pretty much do that < 1306299238 364468 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm thinking that with anything that has a semantic description of object types e.g. CLOS < 1306299253 258466 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not things like python or ruby since they have no actual specification mechanism for types, its all in the initialisers) < 1306299258 156684 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it actually migrate every object on-the-fly < 1306299268 947204 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and call added hooks in the program to assign default values < 1306299272 497847 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1306299280 399086 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sort of need a diff of the data structures themselves < 1306299490 766832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: i half-suspect that chrome startup is short enough that they could just load the new binary into memory, save the current rendering state and position of all tabs and windows, and just quickly run the new one and kill the old one without anyone noticing < 1306299499 734999 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you'd have to keep the old windows drawn while it starts but < 1306299506 315144 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess plugins make that harder though < 1306299519 853194 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about flash plugin state? < 1306299538 76740 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a browser preserve where my youtube video playthrough is up to across killing tabs, rebooting, etc < 1306299543 468855 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's possible surely it'd have been done by now < 1306299564 540664 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats why i said plugins < 1306299576 587470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that it sounds doable because i mean chrome usually re-renders everything when it starts < 1306299585 491881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can reduce the migration problem to translating the rendering structures to the new format if it's changed < 1306299589 355665 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it sounds a lot more tenable < 1306300661 150440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306301934 520883 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306301977 454478 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306302082 700397 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306302108 625682 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306302732 194860 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306304010 100873 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-226.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306306006 464950 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-226.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306306091 570015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to type words into wordpad when you're recording your screen for youtube anymore. We have annotations now < 1306306234 487363 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better still. We have audio. < 1306306277 111144 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things text conveys better but yeah < 1306306693 173913 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple DSL subscriber lines are multiplexed into a single, high-capacity link using a DSL access multiplexer (DSLAM) at the provider location. < 1306306696 639921 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start a religion called DSLAM < 1306306700 988697 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's a wrestling move < 1306306705 296837 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know is it sounds awesome < 1306306859 602451 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, DSL. The networking technology that only sees use because possible competitors don't feel like taking competition seriously. < 1306306878 364001 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat: the possible capacity of a DOCSIS network is 6 *gigabits* per second. < 1306307004 191906 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the whole thing? < 1306307013 3207 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 6.77504 gigabits per second. < 1306307049 930166 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is presuming that all 158 channels on the North American cable TV frequency plan are allocated to DOCSIS. < 1306307112 362488 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1306307121 474351 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they decided to use better modulation, they could get just shy of *tripling* that. < 1306307169 78739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 6.77504 gigabits per second is the bandwidth they could start offering right this instant if they felt like it. < 1306307204 994688 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo not-last-mile bandwidth availability, of course) < 1306307242 7260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306307332 840114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306307424 573445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, the theoretic maximum of VDSL2 is 0.250 gigabits per second. < 1306307463 384716 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's if you hook up right at the centrol office. < 1306307466 297482 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Central, even. < 1306308105 627505 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1306308898 131172 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1306309037 595044 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306309262 973423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :VDSL2 in Finland is mostly used in the scenario where there's fiber to the basement telephone switchboxery and vsdl2 from there to apartments, to avoid rewiring. < 1306309284 779385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case you do get the relatively reasonable rates. < 1306309448 799030 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cable networks are I guess DOCSIS3-compatible, but they only sell up to 200M/10M speeds to consumers. < 1306310134 767170 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1306310402 556179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306310825 731785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, who owns the esolangs.org domain? < 1306310825 836137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1306310849 530279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's registered to one Alan Dipert, which I know is not graue's name. < 1306310948 793095 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-44-127.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306315096 787761 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306316172 685505 :Aune!~arne@piggelin.lysator.liu.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1306316561 306297 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306316691 903776 :Tritonio!~TrT@Phedra.cti.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306316769 713953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306317488 500277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306317563 189380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306317658 742313 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Homestuck update < 1306317781 406491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306318045 65801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306318058 206667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Homestuck update < 1306318176 820541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306318201 820927 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-44-127.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you should be telling me too :p < 1306318923 917327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306318949 735820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306320200 732210 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306320307 961474 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306320332 381908 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: 1... 2... 3... HUGS! :D < 1306322388 532734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay < 1306322673 668974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in other news my chemistry exam has hit a new low in objective wrongness. < 1306322759 829897 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306322796 711594 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306322811 24953 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1306322843 395276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It asked the kind of bonding present in a substance that melted at over 3000°C and oxidised to a gas at room temperature. < 1306322856 188075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put metallic, since there is a metal which fits that exact description. < 1306322909 952969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct answer was apparently some kind of covalent bonding, and since it was a multiple choice there was only one correct option. < 1306323021 893976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it bothers me too much, since I got 92% anyway, but it irks me. < 1306324070 574906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306324664 761245 :Tritonio!~TrT@Phedra.cti.gr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306325801 37710 :Maxdamantus!~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306326168 926135 :Maxdamantus!~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306326803 989451 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there any good and small test case for debugging unlambda interpreter? < 1306327244 633383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1306327679 875149 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, 99 bottles of beer? < 1306327688 141122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that won't really test c. < 1306327928 644542 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, i ended up with comparing the trace of computation to other (working) one < 1306328049 84905 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it seems that i finally get it correct... < 1306328100 690712 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i found the bug: ?x didn't really check if the current character is x... < 1306328232 10752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do instead? < 1306328286 401378 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `?xX actually returned `Xi, no matter what the current character is, except on the EOF < 1306328311 546962 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, turns out that i'm not quite fluent in ocaml. < 1306328341 974791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you please not put copyright violations on the wiki? < 1306328376 345296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that image isn't even freely licensed, let alone public domain < 1306328408 85442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes OK it was not a terribly good idea in hindsight but dammit. < 1306328455 123199 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/25g7Z.jpg < 1306328472 640211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think it was a questionable idea in the first place, but the copyvio is more relevant < 1306328510 160318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, I do not get it. < 1306328517 987123 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/24/paul-gosar-millionaire/ < 1306329006 967834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306329524 564766 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1306330644 896837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Firefox have a "search in all tabs in this window" feature? < 1306330681 665025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1306330690 81582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be useful right now, for me < 1306332652 965650 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-44-127.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306333097 802319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah. Why did I suddenly decide to read the back of the milk packaging. Arla (the largest dairy in Sweden) always put some text about various things on the back, changing it every week or so. This time they went for something so overloaded with puns it was quite painful to read. < 1306333129 721481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it wouldn't translate at all to English. < 1306333350 943461 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-13-57.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306334071 834707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arla's ad slogan in Finland several years ago (1999) used to be "Kohta meissä kaikissa asuu pieni lehmä"; in English, "soon in every one of us there will live a small cow". < 1306334137 59208 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was selected as the slogan of the year by some agency that bothers to select a slogan of the year. < 1306334432 581824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could translate it both ways round; we still wouldn't get the joke but we could see how awkward it sounded < 1306334499 680222 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306334669 200504 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306335878 181167 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306335981 760902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay < 1306336057 508671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well "cow" in Swedish is "ko". "organic food" is "ekologisk mat". Now they invented a story about a professor "E.Ko" for teaching children about what organic food means. And from that point on the pun storm went on. < 1306336092 368643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1306336110 20690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pun almost translates into English as "ecowlogical", although it wouldn't quite have the same meaning < 1306336122 463039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was some very bad pun about this invented "professor" having won the "Kobel price" and so on too < 1306336141 869911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1306336185 145487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and en:buddy = sv:kompis. I forgot what pun they made on that, but they managed one. < 1306336216 798147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well google says that is how it translates. it suggests "chum" as an alternative. Possibly closer < 1306336252 250507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :informal word for "friend"? < 1306336255 826267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1306336613 863436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and sv:naturligvis ~ en:"of course". But svn:"naturligt vis" ~ en:"natural way". They used that one too. Except they mangled it so it made less sense, in that context the form "naturligtvist" would have been used, so they ended up with "naturligt vist" which could possibly mean something like "naturally wise", except that makes less sense since the form "vist" would never be used about a noun < 1306336614 97461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : for a person. (Words about persons are invariably reale, not neuturm, no clue what those classes are called in English, something related to grammatical "gender" I think (except it isn't like male/female at all in modern Swedish) < 1306336625 417591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in effect it ended up utterly awkward < 1306336636 863234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1306336727 440734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, could be utrum. Hm Swedish wikipedia isn't terribly clear on which our grammatical genders are... < 1306336790 773101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh, I can't actually see what the difference between reale and utrum is based on the examples on wikipedia... They seem the same? < 1306336981 400232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :English wikipedia says "Swedish nouns and adjectives are declined in genders as well as number. Nouns belong to one of two genders—common for the en form or neuter for the ett form[31]—which also determine the declension of adjectives.". < 1306336982 345032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306337046 582208 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-228-76.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1306337054 2840 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-228-76.cust.tele2.se QUIT :Changing host < 1306337054 84488 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1306337582 728402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306337610 310401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306337668 828484 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306338206 167962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, mplayer on ubuntu fails to play this movie. I'm sure mplayer on arch managed < 1306338208 1955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now < 1306338325 689229 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stare at the wall until you go mad < 1306338326 130378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any suggestion? < 1306338341 655466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1306338342 781978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, due to Arla? < 1306338347 324742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, as mentioned above < 1306338376 437828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, btw, it was on the ecological whole milk I saw this. Not sure if it is the same across the entire product range < 1306338576 554166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn, it seems I need to possibly recompile ffmpeg with support for it < 1306338578 66069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maaaybe < 1306338646 904412 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no idea what you're talking about, maybe you're already done staring and have gone mad < 1306338665 133768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, which discussion < 1306338675 248645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, the Arla one or the codec one < 1306338677 227895 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :which discussion indeed < 1306338915 137522 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306339514 14120 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306339682 555204 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306340451 44253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn codecs. < 1306340570 796729 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net NICK :lameNOT < 1306340606 90782 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1306340774 721755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306340774 870965 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306340957 418815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306341227 547830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306341274 877905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → outside < 1306341318 850721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306341579 858378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1306341585 542940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306342153 87731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306342755 427277 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306342786 314487 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306342786 396156 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306342786 396294 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306343955 969836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfq < 1306343959 386446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfdsa < 1306343998 442420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol at ph's upload/edit + your revert < 1306344018 741053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was a copyvio! < 1306344029 416074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm SURE that's why you removed it >:D < 1306344180 574860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weighs up xmms2 vs. mpd < 1306344219 812212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was also both silly and offtopic < 1306344226 327035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as described incorrectly < 1306344230 810716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a copyvio is an even better reason to delete < 1306344240 817740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the image from the guardian article, right? < 1306344253 798452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306344255 371431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's just a guess based on context, I didn't see it) < 1306344269 898228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know, you have no proof that PH isn't the photographer of that < 1306344273 415926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SAYIN' < 1306344273 727270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it accomplished much besides making the photographer look stupid, but it's their fault < 1306344277 998451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PH is a woman? < 1306344289 921223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not out of the question. < 1306344292 223948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Guardian would own the copyright, or the photo agency, not the photographer < 1306344300 828335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well he could be the boss of the photo agency. < 1306344303 778105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The... < 1306344305 885659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All-powerful boss. < 1306344313 608974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he IS the photography agency ITSELF. < 1306344329 534326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM JUST SAYING THAT YOU ARE BEING TOO HASTY < 1306344338 692467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: these theories aren't convincing me < 1306344346 129096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even suspected copyvios should be deleted until there's proof they aren't < 1306344353 161713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they said about Columbus, too < 1306344389 235158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, XMMS2 clients seem rather bitrotten < 1306344641 344401 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1306345415 405004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe post a link to the file on here in case. < 1306345461 630447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1306345739 429894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1306345862 559403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a bug in GNU dc, when there is unimplemented command the error message is sent to stdout instead of stderr, it seems? < 1306346346 893679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306346552 359273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306347439 293770 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/esotope/ trying to revive a project. < 1306347613 549106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306347660 257765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306347718 222694 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306348389 856698 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1306348467 90432 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306348556 362327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nice to see you use present tense when speaking about 16-bit applications. I spend 30-50% of my time maintaining an old C++ 16-bit application, so I still live with all the joys of 64K limits :-)" < 1306348561 838993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people wrote sixteen-bit C++ programs? < 1306348578 913172 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306348589 5370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did they even fit in to RAM :P < 1306348599 979298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Badly. < 1306348604 915030 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -nostdlib. < 1306348610 476291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: back then, C++ didn't look like modern C++ at all < 1306348611 898413 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was first called "C++" in *1983*. < 1306348627 327804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more like C with a vague attempt to do object-orientation badly < 1306348633 532439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: well iostreams and the like hardly applied to windows anyway < 1306348635 967085 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ had rather a large amount of changes up to its ISO-isation. < 1306348638 884067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess so, it's still just surprising < 1306348646 973754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the string class (not std::string back then) and iostreams were about the most OO it got in the standard libraries < 1306348652 487324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that people wrote assembly by hand and weren't considered insanely hardcore, at the same time < 1306348656 371764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :old-fashioned C++ is nothing like modern C++ < 1306348682 616333 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The STL itself only really came about in the 90s. < 1306348707 957581 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Templates were, like, 1990. < 1306348718 728019 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a conference at work a while ago there was a talk by one of the oldies about how memory management used to work in our C++ code back in the 16-bit days < 1306348755 30377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was *recognisable* but distinctly different starting with, oh, the mid-80s. < 1306348798 202943 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're first going to get something that would compile in, say, g++ starting in 1998. < 1306348822 549579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so weird :) < 1306348823 357726 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presuming STL use) < 1306348829 859533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the names of the header files changed in the ISO committee) < 1306348843 562406 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iostream.h to iostream, right? < 1306348853 855225 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they removed .h from all the headers. < 1306348881 754646 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can push it back a bit further, perhaps to 1989, if you're talking about code that only used ISO C headers. If you're lucky. < 1306348904 172232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stop myself from liking DOS :( < 1306348904 838172 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before then, all bets are off. This was the nasty land of *K&R C*.) < 1306348913 629308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't feel bad. < 1306348923 637514 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOS was not a bad design for the time. < 1306348924 809879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it's so _bad_. < 1306348933 634286 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers have just gotten *so much better*, and DOS has not. < 1306348947 441944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder what the first DOS that was compatible with anything was < 1306348953 91652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First version had no directories so that is pretty much out < 1306348954 623461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe DOS two? < 1306348959 90301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it only supported ten meg disks < 1306348967 7504 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compatibile with anything"? < 1306348975 100866 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define that, man. < 1306348988 902461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Compatible with a wide range of applications and games made for DOS" < 1306348996 661825 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*. DOS 3. < 1306348997 345534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., the popular thirty-two bit extenders should work < 1306349019 216417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, all Wikipedia lists 3.0 as adding is larger disk support, but I guess their changelog might not be very complete :-) < 1306349029 388364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_x86_DOS_operating_systems is better < 1306349043 991890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft releases MS-DOS 2.0, which introduces a Unix/Xenix-like hierarchical file system, installable device drivers (e.g. ANSI.SYS) in the system configuration file CONFIG.SYS, and adds internal commands BREAK, CHDIR or CD, CLS, CTTY, EXIT, FC, MKDIR or MD, PATH, PROMPT, RMDIR or RD, SET (environments), VER, VERIFY and VOL. New external commands are DISKCOPY (not identical to IBM's version), PRINT (spooling); three filters supported with stand < 1306349044 176897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ard devices and redirection: FIND, SORT and MORE; BACKUP, RESTORE and RECOVER. New batch file commands are ECHO, FOR, GOTO, IF and SHIFT. CONFIG.SYS commands are BREAK, BUFFERS, DEVICE, FILES and SHELL. New file attribute bits are read-only, volume label, subdirectory and archive. A team of six developers produced version 2.0, led by Paul Allen, Mark Zbikowski and Aaron Reynolds.[1] < 1306349051 240217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you sure it's not 2.0? that's a lot of modernisation there < 1306349069 615319 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS 3.0 did some minor API tweaks for the larger disk support. < 1306349077 597950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306349093 837936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i just need to find dos 3 floppies >:) < 1306349097 526075 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure they didn't actually change the API past that. < 1306349107 925897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torrentz.eu/search?f=DOS+3 ;; lame < 1306349108 34728 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add more features to what was already there. < 1306349116 178303 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 32 Mb partition limit was there for quite long, if I recall correctly. < 1306349125 36271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: better than ten megs < 1306349130 182795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went away in 3.something. < 1306349142 610912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldfiles.org.uk/ oh man this design. < 1306349154 534527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Version 3.0 (OEM) - Support for larger Hard Disk Drives < 1306349154 935605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 3.31 (OEM) - Compaq 3.31 supports FAT16 and larger drives. < 1306349156 405412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1306349157 732078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1306349159 659172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says Wikipedia. < 1306349162 943111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suspect the first three version was it < 1306349169 978301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, 5 introduced EDIT < 1306349173 248270 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe so, then. < 1306349198 481605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do recall splitting a huge 40 MB disk into 32/8 and putting Populous' DOS port on the D: part. < 1306349211 540002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point of that :P < 1306349224 522357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, to get around the limit. < 1306349243 740235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. It's the only thing I remember using D: for, but I'm sure there was something else too. < 1306349261 115696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Populous is rather newer than these versions, though. But I guess Scandinavia was ~slow~. < 1306349399 551270 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_x86_DOS_operating_systems "Technical specifications" / "Max Hard Drive partition size" says the 32M limit was there for the whole 3.x series, and only 4.0 bumped it up to 2G. < 1306349413 258636 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what to trust; my own very fallible memory would've put the change around 3.33. < 1306349416 928010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, in two thousand and sixteen Microsoft will be forty years old. < 1306349444 659257 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still dealing with the legacy of their choice to support a CP/M clone. < 1306349547 197802 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Initial_FAT16 speaks of the partition size limit too. < 1306349564 77384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to be unable to find dos three floppies. < 1306349565 395863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woe, it is I. < 1306349592 861685 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 3.2 box somewhere, but no operational floppy drive at the moment, I don't think. < 1306349604 384808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1306349622 419929 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm 1300 km from the box anyway.) < 1306349623 406873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not that you'd ever do something so illegal, after all; haven't you read that open letter by Bill Gates? < 1306349627 26797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll kill Microsoft. < 1306349665 74486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose DOS 3's still selling quite well. < 1306349718 264512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can still actually buy it. < 1306349788 84305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From eBay, at least. :p < 1306349800 958248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noooooo, I want to give back to the Big G. < 1306349812 835153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eBay is as bad as piracy. < 1306349836 925198 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit I have money < 1306349851 178198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: buy dos < 1306349868 954602 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also why is your TV so much better than the Americans'? < 1306349894 109726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you mean the "terrestrial" channels rather than the full range on freeview or Sky, because the latter ios 90 percent absolute pap. < 1306349903 307984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the answer is communism. < 1306349911 585340 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's interesting things from the conference: there was one rather nice-looking texture reconstruction (in the photoshop "context-aware fill" style) poster that at least had pretty pictures. (One assumes they've selected the best-working examples, of course.) < 1306349916 50904 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also FreeDOS, which can be modified to do the things you want it to do instead. < 1306349948 928950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC? Government. ITV and Channel 4? Public service. Channel 5? Erm, shitty. < 1306349970 631605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's quite a popular kind of thing nowadays isn't it. < 1306350004 683375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reddit gave this amusing example recently: < 1306350006 383145 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it is. < 1306350015 329085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source image) Badly-stitched thing: http://i.imgur.com/RBELd.jpg < 1306350019 733166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Photoshop content-aware filled: http://i.imgur.com/ZBSkK.jpg < 1306350025 52909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the CLEAR WINNER, < 1306350035 473010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMP filled with resynthesizer: http://i.imgur.com/biWF6.jpg < 1306350126 686636 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there was a thing that can distinguish singly- and doubly-encoded JPEGs, for the use case where you detect forgeries by assuming they've been double-compressed. (I don't think they really took into account the various other ways -- like stupid(tm) rotation -- images can get double-compiled, I mean compressed.) < 1306350154 431477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306350184 735985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Was there anybody doing a demonstration of why speech recognition is useless and pointless and nobody will ever want it ever and it's basically just this big ol' joke? < 1306350209 245777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOUGHT SO < 1306350222 327395 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the day's plenary talk was sort-of. < 1306350232 675455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe not in those exact works. < 1306350235 632389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words. < 1306350243 834778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's making typos I think I upset him < 1306350261 418369 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame the laptop keyboard. (A convenient excuse.) < 1306350270 568799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also my uncontrollable sobbing." < 1306350286 653526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey pikhq do you have an ms dos floppy. < 1306350294 386607 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. Inconspicious topic-shift! The Resynthesizer(tm) is indeed one of my favourite things. < 1306350315 39831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would definitely go and visit http://i.imgur.com/biWF6.jpg, that's for sure. < 1306350333 973380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it sort of invented a volcano in the stitch. < 1306350335 482052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some program that can convert JPEG to format that you can convert back without changing the lossy part of the compression? But that the new file can then be rotated and manipulated in ways before it is put back? < 1306350382 58309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.0 1984 Support for high-density (1.2 MB) floppy disks and 32 MB hard disks was added. < 1306350386 190346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.3 1987 This release was written to take advantage of IBM's PS/2 computer range. It added support for high density 3.5" floppy disks, more than one partition on hard disks (allowing use of disks bigger than 32 MB) and code pages. < 1306350409 964935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So 3.3 just let you circumvent the /drive/ limit by letting you partition it. < 1306350417 65584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then < 1306350417 371811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0 1988 This version provided XMS support, support for partitions on hard disks up to 2 GB and a graphical shell. It also contained a large number of bugs and many programs refused to run on it. < 1306350422 491838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably that added bigger-partition support too. < 1306350591 652599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File name: Microsoft DOS 3.31 (3½).rar < 1306350591 801765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File description: Microsoft MS-DOS 3.31 By LsFer010 < 1306350591 883134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File size: 333.23 KB < 1306350595 709282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey cool, Google pays off. < 1306350607 576195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only one disk; huh. < 1306350635 342930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.5M 1996-12-24 23:32 Disk1.img < 1306350644 334212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was two thousand and ninety-six in the archive. :p < 1306350735 976599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pikhq: Wow, it displays the current year correctly. < 1306350738 76460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAWD COWE. < 1306350781 158853 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was two 5.25" floppies, but could be the other one was something non-essential. < 1306350802 523046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was three-incher. < 1306350805 452135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File name: Microsoft DOS 3.2 (5¼).rar < 1306350807 535273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind if I do. < 1306350817 550563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.3 1987 This release was written to take advantage of IBM's PS/2 computer range. It added support for high density 3.5" floppy disks, more than one partition on hard disks (allowing use of disks bigger than 32 MB) and code pages. < 1306350819 242542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO NEEDS THOSE THINGS. < 1306350843 467657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey how did you actually install DOS anyway I do not even know. < 1306350848 449546 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306350854 429273 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.132 QUIT :Changing host < 1306350854 510618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306350891 776444 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There are at least tools that rotate (and mirror and crop; with some restrictions) JPEG images without decompressing; I don't think there's any standard easily-manipulatable format though. < 1306351033 193904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even install DOS. < 1306351036 129995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not even know this thing. < 1306351082 152363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306351146 665463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you just copy all the files to C:\DOS. < 1306351150 286987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you do fizzie. < 1306351178 862516 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The versions I recall more clearly used to have a SETUP.EXE. < 1306351193 521794 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need to at least SYS the drive to get the boot thingies in place. < 1306351206 842635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes there is a setup. < 1306351211 357252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to sys the drive before I setup. < 1306351224 958067 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, the setup will take care of it. < 1306351237 385082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"setup" just seems to... hang. < 1306351241 163917 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to FDISK the drive before, though. < 1306351242 14056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is working very hard. < 1306351252 236166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK fdisk is a thing I can do. < 1306351438 407530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Seems like the setup tool doesn't like me so I'll just do it manually. < 1306351446 866342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFIG.SYS and COMMAND.COM have to be in the root directory, right? What else? < 1306351528 572191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much that I recall; you do need to either SYS it or FORMAT /S (if I recall the flag right) to make it put a boot sector. And I can't quite recall what made it put the usual code into MBR. < 1306351548 778399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYS will copy command.com too, I think. < 1306351550 262968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a boot sector, it just complains about a lack of command interpreter now. < 1306351561 545009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SYS C:" doesn't seem to copy t. < 1306351561 861063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it. < 1306351572 8031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weirdish. < 1306351584 48260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\DOS is the usual place for all the other files though, right? < 1306351636 526459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try with FORMAT /S and then copying the necessary things in \DOS. < 1306351659 403824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geh, how do you move things. < 1306351665 660073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rename DOS\COMMAND.COM COMMAND.COM" doesn't work. < 1306351680 244885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no /S here it seems; too MODERN. < 1306351732 412438 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "move" < 1306351750 613161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't have any MOVE. < 1306351763 854319 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird < 1306351771 584512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is too new. < 1306351776 153831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe this download sucks. < 1306351902 880068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you messing with dos? < 1306351923 995916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fun. < 1306351929 371226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, freedos? < 1306351933 241638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1306351936 907298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1306351938 771131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK it boots now. < 1306351941 382848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sucks. < 1306351948 143161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in what way? < 1306351963 751765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every way < 1306351972 919612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, too new? < 1306351980 803488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or is it badly coded or something? < 1306352024 355408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too new, lame protected mode, PEH < 1306352030 956894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how do you stop DOS asking for a new date/time on each boot. < 1306352048 464275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, PEH? < 1306352065 489188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1306352198 430528 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make an autoexec.bat for it. < 1306352210 941879 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the date/time query only hits if you don't have one. < 1306352448 941747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306352746 377736 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1306352750 725821 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing Portal 2 < 1306352758 564266 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It closed out on me after being minimized < 1306352760 167039 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats head against wall < 1306352764 992215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it didn't < 1306352768 744956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Occam's Razor Is Simply Wrong!" < 1306352776 486213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not on the taskbar < 1306352777 108409 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH < 1306352787 322256 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PAIN AND AGONY IS ASTOUNDING < 1306352826 812981 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Poe's Law in full force. < 1306352853 851259 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks be to goodness. < 1306352890 643081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I keep forgetting what Poe's Law is even despite looking it up at least twice < 1306352892 902112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks it up a third time < 1306352911 322376 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very fundamental law of discourse. < 1306352918 946800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that one < 1306353325 320359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306353481 554705 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-13-57.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306353485 889499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, firefox makes sound when you type in something for search on page and it isn't found!? < 1306353511 376557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually only use sound when listening to music or playing games, I guess that is why I never noticed before... But how do you turn that off... < 1306353737 488797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe go to about:config and then find the correct setting to turn off < 1306353796 502847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1306353831 470305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. accessibility.typeaheadfind.enablesound looks promising. < 1306353842 422772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1306354424 672207 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306354479 969466 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION inks out "ais523" and "zzo38" on his "#esoteric Bingo" card < 1306354496 344917 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.233.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306354519 473836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wha? < 1306354553 733663 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and "Phantom_Hoover". score. only five more squares until blackout < 1306354565 231660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: people who are in the channel simultaneously with you? < 1306354566 595823 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1306354592 503639 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306354618 47787 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, see, many of the nicks here, are always here, and thus not interesting to observe, when I join < 1306354650 570479 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my nick???? < 1306354665 181118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, neither ais523 nor zzo38 are always here < 1306354704 589831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's what cpressey implied < 1306354730 742808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, didn't he imply that you were always here? < 1306354736 68330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306354743 118804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if I were, me being here wouldn't be interesting < 1306354743 827798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, read it backwards < 1306354748 226982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he clearly found it interesting < 1306354751 180970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or she, I suppose < 1306354757 212395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no idea how bingo works < 1306354760 626174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1306354761 338954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many genders I don't know < 1306354778 880157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is blacking it out interesting or non-interesting < 1306354786 54148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1306354789 860226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306354796 714390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does it mean in real bingo? < 1306354802 99840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you have a list of numbers on the card, and the announcer calls out random numbers < 1306354810 682879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they call out a number on your card, you get to cross it off the card < 1306354814 795151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1306354815 817911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win when there are none left < 1306354822 532690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often also get a prize if you manage to form certain patterns < 1306354827 79323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306354827 529074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an entirely luck-based game < 1306354837 748326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variants often replace the numbers with something else < 1306354855 907661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was just about to suggest that simply applying a PRNG once to decide who won would be easier. But it would not handle the pattern case. < 1306354871 29765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that would defeat most of the interest in the game, though < 1306354887 644144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is people thinking "ooh, I've almost won" and then just getting beaten < 1306354890 115432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from the pattern bit, this game doesn't sound very interesting < 1306354894 99924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find it a particularly interesting game myself, though < 1306354921 361633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also I think the announcer never repeats numbers, but that's just to save time < 1306354932 587827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that you don't get to choose the numbers on the card, they're random too) < 1306354939 606277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306354976 38411 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost entirely luck. there is the small factor of being able to pay attention to the announcer. < 1306354989 394734 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bingo is purely a social game. < 1306354997 215938 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are easily distracted, that can work against you. < 1306355038 13437 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hard of hearing. < 1306355044 61122 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game is a secondary factor, the primary factor is the social aspect of many people sitting in one room, and everyone hoping to be the one who gets to shout bingo! drawing attention to themselves. < 1306355074 940115 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what they don't realize is that you can just join an IRC channel and do that. < 1306355078 470364 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1306355081 14508 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BINGO! < 1306355084 375118 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that just randomly choosing who gets to stand up and shout bingo! is too stupid even for those people, so they make the pretense of an actual game < 1306355102 579739 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, exactly < 1306355151 552887 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was going to try my hand at implementing Deadfish in ooc < 1306355168 158491 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I realized that the ooc compiler is self-hosted < 1306355177 593626 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a binary package to bootstrap it < 1306355189 804449 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was like, wait, what? < 1306355209 869602 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1306355212 101346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use a cross-compiler in order to break the infinite regress < 1306355229 578185 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if one existed < 1306355239 997798 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might. i haven't come across it though < 1306355267 564108 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I was thinking is: doesn't this go against open-source a little? how do I know what this binary contains? how do I know it was compiled from these sources? < 1306355306 464784 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't supporting all these platforms impose a drain on resources? < 1306355383 343340 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was an ooc interpreter in a popular scripting language, wouldn't that do the job for bootstrapping just as well? < 1306355386 158031 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: If I don't need another ooc compiler to compile this one, how does it work? What does 'make bootstrap' do? < 1306355386 240003 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: 'make bootstrap' builds a rock binary from the C sources in build/c-source, calls it bin/c_rock, and uses it to recompile itself to bin/rock" < 1306355400 983190 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a crock < 1306355403 321615 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry) < 1306355418 974897 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make" does not tell you any of this -- it tells you to go fetch a bootstrap package < 1306355482 712155 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the FAQ could be out of date, if it isn't just the makefile that is a lying bastard < 1306355484 229790 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, it apparently IS a crock. "make bootstrap" tells me the same thing < 1306355496 928785 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably both wrong < 1306355497 351492 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the faq is out of date < 1306355530 725904 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugged in, not charging < 1306355534 844639 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reboot tends to solve this < 1306355539 449257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@#$%^*(&%$@@#$^&*(O < 1306355556 574589 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the Makefile *looks* like that should work. < 1306355689 374513 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, looks like the version of rock on github does not include the necessary C sources. < 1306355727 845081 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, giving up. that was fun! < 1306355747 128125 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to boring javascript debugging fun fun < 1306355759 591914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript is the easiest language to debug by far. < 1306355761 334755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next point in the faq mentions another make target for generating the C sources (using rock) < 1306355764 801259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier than Haskell. < 1306355786 323386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with all that dynamic typing. < 1306355861 596829 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306355871 486224 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jeez, it's CakeProphet! < 1306355880 692494 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1306355882 264705 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BINGO! < 1306355887 349747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306355902 412696 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is most certainly not CakeProphet < 1306355928 995309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1306355943 831897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're my utter reflection, Sgeo, what do you mean? < 1306356094 185535 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the awesomeness of this build system has defeated me. < 1306356099 718497 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for today < 1306356195 463146 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would appear rock is required to build the C sources required to build c_rock required to bootstrap rock < 1306356215 883451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point in my life I should just go ahead and write a compiler directly in the language that it will compile from, and not bother figuring out how to bootstrap it before releasing it < 1306356282 749426 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bug in this Perl IRC bot I made that I haven't been able to figure out for 2 days now. < 1306356402 520088 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Perl is almost as easy to debug as Javascript! < 1306356416 586858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like that Haskell crap! < 1306356434 949570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, that expressive type system makes finding bugs nigh-impossible! < 1306357062 629222 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i was thinking earlier today < 1306357073 199431 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't perl be great for like.. interactive programming < 1306357080 614611 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have some data set that you need to process < 1306357106 804146 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in the editor, and every time you enter something it gets re-run with that data. < 1306357115 4948 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in another pane you have a live display of the data set. < 1306357149 856632 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say you're doing some statistics, you could have a live display of the data analysis, like say a distribution graph. < 1306357223 120617 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is very terse, so it lends itself to this sort of thing. < 1306357449 653611 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Perl should be used for interactive statistics. While R is better suited for IRC bots: https://bitbucket.org/catseye/rtype < 1306358083 156921 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306358223 448208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "is" mean? < 1306358243 865896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in what context? < 1306358262 383719 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ruin my fun by being like that < 1306358270 827358 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see < 1306358294 838749 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context "my ape is a grape" < 1306358320 262888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is actually not a grape) < 1306358362 459292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ais523, what you been up to? < 1306358382 575781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get a report finished < 1306358389 512325 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me more < 1306358393 66228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also training Pokémon for the national Pokémon championships in a couple of weeks < 1306358399 427517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :less interesting < 1306358414 534687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a particularly boring report, trying to demonstrate that I know enough about what I'm doing to be allowed to continue on a PhD < 1306358426 156825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1306358448 804065 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got my funding for the phd like, umm, yesterday or something < 1306358469 131928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my funding ages ago < 1306358476 495779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean officially, it was rather obvious from the start that i'd get it < 1306358480 333442 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously < 1306358493 547965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after a year, they make people do a report to determine whether I've actually been doing something PhD-worthy or whether they should stop funding it and cut their losses < 1306358500 977261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i only finished my master's degree this year < 1306358507 541744 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sure < 1306358544 710779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm sure they only cut it if you directly admit you've been doing drugs and whores the whole time. < 1306358581 398662 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's rather hard to measure the progress of an artist :o < 1306358594 627852 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to think of himself as an artist < 1306358630 8589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's ex was always like lol u no artist u just a scientist < 1306358644 984785 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION on the other hand was like stfu i'm so < 1306358668 437421 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm rather drunk in case that was not obvious < 1306358756 839536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's dad on the third hand is always like he so an artist even though he's mostly a drunk < 1306358930 318318 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing this survey, and it's hard because people haven't proven the things i want to mention, and i'm not supposed to prove them myself < 1306359067 812124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you not supposed to prove them yourself? < 1306359098 775207 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the point of a survey < 1306359124 29189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of a survey is to present the current state of a theory < 1306359168 935103 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you not present the current state if there is no proof? < 1306359169 745175 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is people tend to prove trivial things that sound nontrivial instead of actually trying to solve things < 1306359181 215338 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1306359203 52958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :proofs are the only things that further the theory in mathematics < 1306359216 687382 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is required that it is proven, then use a pseudonym or whatever < 1306359234 562319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? prove it myself in another paper? < 1306359246 955751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you know how to prove it, that is. < 1306359300 28192 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i already present some of my own results, but i mean there are these couple of things that are obviously true, but i have no idea how to prove them without doing probably a month of research < 1306359310 206534 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be nice if someone had done this < 1306359343 819096 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah you're right, if i had a complete existing proof < 1306359346 695847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think you might be correct. What matematical theories are these that you are dealing with? < 1306359348 216861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306359348 546661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could just publish it < 1306359355 266357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add it < 1306359369 18987 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theory of picture-walking automata < 1306359402 61069 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff i did in my master's thesis < 1306359408 553124 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple stuff < 1306359576 73439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so zzo38 what YOU been up to? < 1306359626 234564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been playing D&D on the weekend I was in Victoria, and then yesterday I was recording the game on my computer. < 1306359644 530596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does recording mean < 1306359686 21734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I have plans to work on TeXnicard, too. I have a request for you: If you have any ideas or feature requests for TeXnicard, tell me I can put them near the end of the book (just before the index). < 1306359705 551410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Recording http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/ < 1306359714 11705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it means. < 1306359716 284323 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what was this texnicard exactly < 1306359764 559383 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer is making distressing noises < 1306359766 852222 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: TeXnicard is not related to the D&D game. For information about TeXnicard: http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git < 1306359775 770973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What noise, to be specific? < 1306359794 616976 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As though something's rattling around < 1306359813 965363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Then open it and look inside to see if something is rattling around. Maybe the fan? < 1306359840 508488 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: so what you been up to? < 1306359889 699272 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoping that my computer isn't physically dying < 1306359892 830134 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playing Portal 2 < 1306359901 646849 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being obsessed with Homestuck < 1306359909 648950 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1306359909 731004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1306359915 75049 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been hearing about this homestuck thing < 1306359919 802378 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you have opinions about TeXnicard or about the D&D recording files? < 1306359928 729183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it is the best thing and you should read it. < 1306359956 626258 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not really. i only have opinions on math nowadays :\ < 1306359958 88598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306359972 749572 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and some other things. but not texnicard or dd < 1306359980 482651 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you have opinions about the twin primes conjecture? < 1306359988 23493 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306360010 459130 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have my usual line w.r.t. conjectures: "it's obviously true" < 1306360025 321082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that adjusted for P=NP? < 1306360029 166711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in the case of twin primes conjecture, i'm not sure that's actually my opinion since i don't know anything abou tit < 1306360030 879758 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about it < 1306360037 876154 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah P!=NP is obviously true < 1306360049 688128 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the whole polynomial hierarchy is obviously proper < 1306360238 93022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in the picture-walking automata case, the polynomial hierarchy has at least two propers levels! < 1306360248 25375 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :ebay < 1306360251 79842 :ebay!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306360257 911507 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this has nothing to do with the corresponding complexity theory problem < 1306360291 516039 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly i decided to call another thing a polynomial hierarchy, because it had a similar feel to it < 1306360398 160583 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why won't the event viewer work? :( < 1306360467 543828 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :elliotcable < 1306360542 722045 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1306360561 751951 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing that looks hardware related. Well, one thing about some communications failure < 1306360586 375791 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The embedded controller (EC) did not respond within the specified timeout period. This may indicate that there is an error in the EC hardware or firmware or that the BIOS is accessing the EC incorrectly. You should check with your computer manufacturer for an upgraded BIOS. In some situations, this error may cause the computer to function incorrectly." < 1306360589 562022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* Phantom_Hoover → sleep Phantom_Hoover: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. <-- heh < 1306360638 44379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, weeeelll that sounds like big problems < 1306360653 414347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I presume it is a laptop? < 1306360655 818497 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1306360657 941552 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-214-228.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306360698 348943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, at least on thinkpads there is an EC deeply involved in making "laptopish functions" work < 1306360713 432860 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"laptopish" functions? < 1306360729 254389 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, does that include moving the HD head elsewhere when there are vibrations? < 1306360729 534384 :elliotcable!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306360732 131150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean, like, when it is closed/open? < 1306360753 211756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, everything from setting brightness on screen and setting battery charge tresholds to enabling and disabling wlan and bluetooth < 1306360778 942189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Um, does that include moving the HD head elsewhere when there are vibrations? <-- I'm not sure how it reads the accelerometer < 1306360781 733920 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easiest thing for me to test? < 1306360796 543920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well it could be for some stuff only *shrug* < 1306360808 694395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *think* that accelerometer reading uses the EC. < 1306360809 125417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306360817 534497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual hd head moving does not use it < 1306360824 920613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the accelerometer reading might < 1306360830 877413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, is that a thinkpad you have there? < 1306360838 257207 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sattelite < 1306360846 741190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, ah, toshiba < 1306360854 357960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well it could be very different for that brand < 1306360876 915818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have next to no experience with that < 1306360976 663027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I think the EC on my thinkpad handles stuff like Fn-PgUp turning on LED lighting up the keyboard < 1306360980 375465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1306361023 643972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what is the issue you are seeing? < 1306361047 161397 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a funny sound when I tilt my laptop sometimes < 1306361051 906675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1306361065 455098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you are doing it wrong. You don't tilt laptops < 1306361068 506030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a table for them < 1306361075 416810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops that is < 1306361095 598716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I would argue using laptops in your lap is stupid :P < 1306361197 111124 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306361200 599788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1306361223 284357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi oerjan! There are some bad puns in the logs. Grep for Arla. < 1306361226 99120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →→ < 1306361287 516141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote night → oh hi oerjan! There are some bad puns in the logs. Grep for Arla. night →→ < 1306361290 547634 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​428) night → oh hi oerjan! There are some bad puns in the logs. Grep for Arla. night →→ < 1306361481 619812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306361582 667757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306361621 763362 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so how about those simplicial complexes < 1306361681 512918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1306361688 731062 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was all < 1306361704 134953 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306361709 617401 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i'm drunk and tired < 1306361712 123253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well simply put, they are complex < 1306361725 329306 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DSDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1306361737 323406 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually they don't seem to be complex in either sense of the word < 1306361771 376608 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306361800 815884 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about that homotopy though? :D < 1306361866 528822 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306361877 416123 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Rtype are you gonna crash on me? < 1306361878 145688 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan < 1306361906 730393 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably take you to another channel Rtype < 1306361907 368608 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION groans  < 1306361918 584159 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :test complete < 1306361919 998381 :Rtype!~Rtype@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306361926 365043 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good channel for Rtype imo < 1306361959 885374 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the functor from continuous functions to homology groups identifies homotopic functions, is what i recall, and this is somehow obvious from the simplicial complexes i even more vaguely recall < 1306362021 747152 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :homology group? < 1306362023 703263 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306362025 281077 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1306362036 627344 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no yeah i don't know what that is < 1306362051 659876 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what else would you use simplicial complexes for < 1306362084 780497 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only know them as a step on the road to getting the groups (or modules, if you have a more arbitrary ring) < 1306362087 657331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are nice little spaces < 1306362093 546467 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that functor a continuous functor? I... am trying to wrap my head around such things existing < 1306362150 594093 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what continuity would mean for functors, although someone has probably defined it < 1306362153 745805 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build pretty much any space you can think of out of simplicial complexes < 1306362168 820908 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to homeomorphism < 1306362180 929732 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, functions can be continuous on the reals; you can have spaces of functions which resemble the reals; sooooo.... < 1306362187 1774 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming you have a sucky imagination < 1306362191 886953 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't mathed in a long time < 1306362198 480429 :h[a]gb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db43b9d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306362207 731437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh hm i'm a bit confused on the terminology < 1306362210 612711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a functor is not a function from functions to functions in this case < 1306362218 985462 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? damn! < 1306362244 222172 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.233.232 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306362283 527655 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.233.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306362288 193166 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh this bloody laptop and its constant leaking of memory < 1306362310 976597 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my definition is simplicial complex = collection of simplexes closed under faces (plus intersections of simplexes are faces) < 1306362357 738360 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pardon the extreme simplification, that doesn't really mean much :D < 1306362359 221569 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now oerjan's lap is covered with blood and memory < 1306362407 729444 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm just reading this book on algebraic topology, not sure what they're going to use simplicial complexes for, yet. < 1306362423 301225 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was confusing simplicial complexes with the chain complexes made from them < 1306362433 910147 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those being? < 1306362495 577334 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those being the next step after you construct simplicial complexes, just before you construct the homology groups < 1306362500 262894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably take a rather deep look into this algebraic topology thing, i saw this one general proof about exact sequences and it was just incredible < 1306362586 897766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't have a kind-of definition for them? < 1306362662 213592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a sequence of modules/abelian groups with a homomorphism from each to the next such that neigboring homomorphisms compose to 0 < 1306362662 568502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to giggle < 1306362690 449331 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :exact sequences being a subset of them, i think < 1306362697 626762 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so a... well what do you call a non-exact exact sequence < 1306362731 79479 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my advisor spoke about half exact sequences, but that's a bit different again < 1306362740 194415 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an exact sequence, the image is exactly the kernel of the next < 1306362757 507260 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in a chain complex the image is simply contained in the kernel < 1306362777 243345 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess the idea is you have a space and then you build a space on top of that and then another space on top of that and so on < 1306362825 264371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306362831 112061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306362868 246969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i most love about math is that the technical aspect is so entertaining the authors usually don't bother to mention what they're actually doing < 1306362889 460678 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the homology groups give some exact sequences later < 1306362893 509544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when there's a clear intuitive idea < 1306362931 495438 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's possible you're supposed to come up with that on your own, it's certainly a rather small task compared to understanding the details < 1306362968 624043 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm homology groups, what are the elements and what is the operation? < 1306362992 287396 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the fundamental group? < 1306363034 120432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh there was a blog post on something like this on reddit, i'd find it but my computer is currently thrashing < 1306363054 921922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about not bothering to mention things) < 1306363082 20725 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's still in my recent tab list < 1306363101 920824 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? interestingly enough, no mathematician has ever bothered to mention that they tend not to bother to mention things. < 1306363143 14785 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the homology groups are the quotients of consecutive terms of the chain complex you construct from the simplicial complex < 1306363146 873520 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1306363162 758833 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2011/05/monday_math_a_rant_about_jargo.php < 1306363163 441193 :Tritonio_GR!TrT@93.182.186.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306363169 201654 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the house that jack built < 1306363185 570285 :Tritonio_GR!TrT@93.182.186.21 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306363200 618390 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go to sleep now, i'll talk to you more after learning everything about this stuff < 1306363216 218956 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: pretty much, this is the field which _inspired_ category theory in order to be able to build things like that < 1306363283 434456 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from the simplicial complexes < 1306363310 491072 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chain complex is constructed from all of them for a space < 1306363370 555036 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i think you can do restrictions such as differentiability (i think the famous de rham theorem may involve that) < 1306363383 169340 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.233.232 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306363419 492081 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the _first_ homology group is the abelian part of the fundamental group, the rest are pretty unrelated < 1306363445 676520 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306363472 37678 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micah|insane < 1306363488 811200 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that article is not quite about what i'm talking about < 1306363502 161926 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i'm rarely satisfied with the amount of formality in textbooks < 1306363503 709640 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it sounded related < 1306363529 459578 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but this article is about how most err the other way, possibly _as well_ < 1306363561 319507 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you could have too little formality _and_ too little motivation at the same time < 1306363581 87486 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave relevance to those... physicists or whatever they're called < 1306363589 858491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see i'd like immense formality, but on the other hand it would be nice if they started with MENTIONING the why < 1306363595 266172 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306363607 536913 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't assume they know the why < 1306363638 819745 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, the best part of math is when you don't really know the why, you can just skip it and be correct < 1306363640 990357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1306363642 317082 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's not just about relevance, but about _internal_ motivation as well < 1306363643 767285 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306363644 834078 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :best part of writing math < 1306363663 850010 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is suppose is the same as relevance to other mathematics < 1306363671 445452 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or intersecting it < 1306363671 527419 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1306363785 517801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i don't know what it is in general that i feel is missing from math texts. < 1306363819 399914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually there's some simple idea that i get after reading the material a few times, and i just feel like it should've been the first sentence of the book < 1306363855 645184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of definition 1.1.1 N is the set of nonnegative integers < 1306363887 692651 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm lucky, i get that idea, too < 1306363923 891280 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mathematics is about RESULTS! not intuitions! because intuitions can LIE! < 1306363939 569964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well often there are many of them and in fact for each of them, one of the theorems says *exactly* that < 1306364013 602873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but understanding things by reading is very, very hard. i guess that's why they have exercises. but who does those unless they have to. < 1306364016 215353 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can call mathematics on "jargon", though, because unlike other fields, each of the pieces of "jargon" is (or should be) a well-defined abstraction, that is built upon < 1306364024 899041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306364084 600644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'd say there is no jargon, you don't really say anything unless you defined it yourself or it's english for monkeys < 1306364094 797463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306364097 570078 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it's a well-known math term < 1306364120 638364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, well-known is rather relative and about 100 people actually know the term but anyhow < 1306364131 414515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-214-228.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And well-known math terms are themselves quite well defined. < 1306364132 686428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1306364216 776076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i made you win your bingo maybe < 1306364357 144149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ooc has a java interpreter btw < 1306364362 393978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it can bootstrap their compiler though < 1306364366 155643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is abandoned i think < 1306364395 895098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:35:59: javascript is the easiest language to debug by far. < 1306364396 145872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1306364443 434916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04:09: Yes, Perl should be used for interactive statistics. While R is better suited for IRC bots: https://bitbucket.org/catseye/rtype < 1306364443 683997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if i've mentioned how awesome you are lately < 1306364460 737619 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1306364476 346418 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm go sleep < 1306364480 366029 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1306364485 777466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: loser donkey < 1306364502 776079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you. < 1306364513 555374 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1306364514 394432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1306364521 288722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway work tomorrow -> < 1306365013 662630 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /am/ pretty awesome, but not as awesome as ooc's build process. That one is /highly awesome/. < 1306365045 407840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: the open source thing, I think it might be a fallacy in disguise < 1306365047 147639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, < 1306365059 780350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you audit gigantic C interpreter source trees before you compile them? < 1306365071 149328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtfully, so you're still essentially trusting that the source does what they say it does (interprets a language) < 1306365084 595144 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I say that didn't bother me too? < 1306365084 678149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really different to trusting that their pregenerated C source is compiled from their compiler sources < 1306365103 199863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well no but it shouldn't bother you /much/ or... everything will bother you < 1306365106 153874 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt Intel will give me the schematics of this cpu here < 1306365139 492599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean unless you're going to do the double-compiling rigmarole constantly and only use things whose full source code you've audited, you're always going to be making assumptions with our current terrible security models < 1306365165 125078 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is a possible world which will contain more of this (I download an ooc binary) and a possible world which will contain less of this (I don't download the ooc binary and, rather, forget ooc exists) < 1306365186 420786 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still trying to figure out why Bitbucket thinks it's popular enough to include in its list of languages < 1306365201 360674 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still unable to find a project on Bitbucket that is identifiably "crafted in ooc" < 1306365223 629850 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "ooc" means? < 1306365232 200113 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://ooc-lang.org/ < 1306365242 219632 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it stands for, if it stands for anything. < 1306365256 653492 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The creator comes here sometimes < 1306365263 146220 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang m key < 1306365271 374788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we know. < 1306365323 448522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does bitbucket even have search by language < 1306365325 40435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ui is terrible < 1306365344 394946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like github but worse < 1306365349 408560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i guess that's what bitbucket is... < 1306365373 582420 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghett-hub < 1306365489 600503 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306365535 748975 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: I am frequently undone because my love of wizards < 1306365583 383358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306365723 486952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be bad at code golf except in a few cases...... for Deadfish challenge, I beat everyone at AWK but not at anything else. I almost beat everyone at C, I did badly with JavaScript, and I don't know much about Perl. < 1306365797 471188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did, however, beat a few people on this channel, as far as I know: ais523 and adam.) < 1306365858 152920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And #esoteric did beat ditto and bk1e.) < 1306365862 593409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306365961 888484 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=736 < 1306365992 997527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306366200 602223 :h[a]gb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db43b9d.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1306367440 994259 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric